Visa Denied

[Vaughn]

  We were blinded by confidence. The plan was to have my sister-in-law
apply for a non-immigrant tourist visa and accompany our daughter on her
return flight to the USA in September. The interview in Moscow seemed to
go normally but she was summarily rejected and sent packing yesterday.

  Venera is about 39, happily married about 18 years. They recently (about
2 years ago) bought a new apartment, have a 17 year old daughter, and are
both gainfully employed. I sent over a convincing letter of invitation even though
it's not specifically required, in which we guaranteed her timely return and
financial well-being.

  My wife spent half the day crying - she's so disappointed. This AM I called the
Embassy line where you not only pay for the call, you submit credit card info and
are charged for the privilege of talking with clerks who in no way offer any solid
information - just a suggestion to "apply again."

 I plan to call Venera tomorrow morning to review the line of questioning, the
documents she presented, etc. The interviewer BTW was a Russian woman, not
an American. I do not want to reapply without addressing that which was
specifically responsible for the rejection, but that sort of info is difficult to
elicit from the Consulate line I called today. So I have to attempt to determine
the cause myself. Any suggestions?

 Venera also relayed this: a group of 10 year olds, led by their teacher, were
at the Embassy for their visas as well. About a third of them were rejected much
to the dismay of their teacher who argued that the trip was pretty much toast if
all the children (about 15-20) couldn't participate.

  Regarding our own situation again, it's crossed my mind to write to one of
our state Representatives, Sue Myrick, to see if perhaps she could cast an
appeal for a reversal. Good idea, or premature? What avenue should I take
first? I should also mention that we successfully had my MIL visit in 2004 -
a woman of 64 at that time who really owned little and had no solid reason
to return. Back then I may have deceived myself, thinking that my solidly
worded letter of invitation may have been the tideturner.

  We were really blindsided when the call came yesterday......

 Any insight, experience and advice will be appreciated.

Vaughn

[KenC]

Vaughn,
Sorry to hear the bad news buddy.  I remember talking with you when you were planning your MIL's visit.  Sorry, but I have no clue how to help you on this one.  Best of luck to you though.
KenC

[I/O]

The interviewer BTW was a Russian woman, not an American. Vaughn

Seems your lot is working the same way as ours is now.  I never cease to be amazed that YOUNG foreigners are the visa clerks in OUR embassies, making decisions which have far reaching effects on the lives of people in a country of which they will probably never visit and who pays their salaries? We, the taxpayer do.

I/O

[Vaughn]

It's also crossed my mind that the interviewer, perceiving Venera as
"just another country-pie bumpkin" from the Republic of Mari-El, never
thought twice about canning her dream of visiting her sister for a few
weeks. Do these interviewers have carte blanche to be as subjective
as they care to be? These decisions aren't quantifiable....

[RK]

Vaughn...I was in Sue Myrick's office today in Southpark. Her office is expediting a passport for me so I can get it back in time before my monthly trip to Ukraine in a couple of weeks. Very nice lady works the front desk and I know they have a person there who handles immigration issues...I asked just in case I need help later with my fiancee. I'll PM the address and phone number in case you don't have it.

[Vaughn]

Thank you, RK, for the PM info and your very timely post. Just got off the
phone with Venera - she did her homework and went in very prepared w/
compelling documentation. There's little more we could do differently with
a second petition.

The "interview" lasted only a minute - and the interviewer
never once made eye contact with my wife's sister.
I think the effort was doomed from the start.

Sue Myrick's office is our next (and perhaps last) avenue.

[William3rd]

What was the specific reason given for the denial of the visa? Per the written notification. . . . THere is a limited appeals process.

[Vaughn]

Insufficient documentation. Yet no specific area of interest listed.

She had the following: marriage certificate,  joint ownership of apartment,
international passport (been to Turkey twice), statement of salary
(a considerably good one) from employer, birth certicates of all
family members, bank statements, a recent letter offering her daughter
a 4-year scholarship to Kazan Univ. of Finance and Economics. She's
got plenty of reasons to retun to a fairly comfortable existence.

I can objectively say she's an early entrant into the
emerging middle class....

There was nothing they asked for that she did not have.

[BillyB]

  I sent over a convincing letter of invitation even though
it's not specifically required, in which we guaranteed her timely return and
financial well-being.

 

Vaughn, I think sending a letter that guaranteed her financial well-being hurt more than helped. Tourist visas are designed to bring foreign tourist dollars into America. The interviewer must understand that a person can make it here and back on their own without your help. Next time write a letter that your guests will be paying their way.

[Rvrwind]

The interviewer BTW was a Russian woman, not an American.

We have the same problem at the Canadian Embassy & it pisses me off....
Why are our tax $'s paying to employ Russians to man posts at a Canadian Embassy? Totally ridiculous. When I go there now I demand to talk to a Canadian & absolutely refuse to talk to a Russian councilor!
When you go to the Russian Consulate or Embassy in Canada or the US, are there Americans or Canadians there...NOT!!! Not one Russian Embassy I have been in in any country have I seen NON Russians working, That is the way it should be. Russians working in a foreign Embassy should not be tolerated just as they do not tolerate foreigners working in thier's.

[William3rd]

I would add- information on your wife-her sister- your financials and an I134. proof of your marriage and spouses immigration status and your immigration status. I assume that your invitation letter stated your firm promise to support her for a short term visit of 30 days or so.

You can also send a letter talking about mom's visit and how mom returned on time per the initial letter of invitation

You can ask for reconsideration with more evidence or file again.

Too bad. Tourist visas are tough.

[Jet]

Something else to consider Vaughn,
I spoke w/ Lil last night after our PM exchange and she wondered whether this might be a reflection of current political tensions. She said it's been all over the news that UK has slammed down hard on visa issuance in the past few weeks - to the point of rejecting 4 diplomatic visa requests flatly. May be nothing to it, but you never know...

[Vaughn]

I would add- information on your wife-her sister- your financials and an I134. proof of your marriage and spouses immigration status and your immigration status. I assume that your invitation letter stated your firm promise to support her for a short term visit of 30 days or so.

Proof of our marriage - no.
Proof of immigration status - definitely yes.
Yes, we promised to finance her journey and handle all expenses so as
"not to burden either the USA gov't or the gov't of the Russian Federation."

We're going to apply again - likely to move
faster than a reconsideration. More financials, firm dates of travel.
And as you suggested,

a letter talking about mom's visit and how mom returned on time per the initial letter of invitation

Any way we can insist on an American to conduct the interview?

The interviewer must understand that a person can make it here and back on their own without your help. Next time write a letter that your guests will be paying their way.

Can't do that, BillyB, they'd see right through that one. It just wouldn't be fact.
That aside, a sudden change of story would blow any credibility out of the water.

A friend in Hawaii is presently trying the same thing we are - and when Hawaii's
sun is rising, I better check in with him. His SIL is even younger than Venera.

Lil last night .......wondered whether this might be a reflection of current political tensions.

Jet, I've considered that, too - and that'd be bigger than most of us could
handle. I mentioned to Elvira that maybe the clerks were simply told to
"approve only 15% today" in a quota-driven mentality.

[William3rd]

YOUR MARRIAGE TO HER SISTER. . . .

You are kinda stuck on the choice of interviewers except on reconsideration. Your congressman letter MIGHT have the case reviewed by the supervisor. . .
SUGGESTION- Have your congressman send a letter asking for reconsideration and present your additional evidence with him.

Make sure that you spelled out a precise term of visit-I usually recommend 30 days for the first visa

If you file a fresh app so close, they are more likely to say no assuming no change of circumstances and not reviewing your materials

[catzenmouse]

Vaughn,

 Sorry we kept getting cut off on the phone last eve. Tried to call back a few more times but got nothing.

Sounds like William has a good scenario for you and it does make sense to go for reconsideration with the added documents AND the supervisor.

Good Luck Brother!

Ken

[Vaughn]

Ken, my phone died - not surprising after all the useage it saw yesterday.

Thanks to everyone for the input. I'll go visit Sue Myrick's office today,
and see what they can do for us....

[BC]

If it exists, a copy of her employment contract might also help or statement from the employer showing how long she has been employed, that leave time was approved and that they expect her timely return bla bla.  A simple statement regarding her salary might not be enough.  We also supplied our auto club membership that provided travel medical insurance for the family.  I had my parents do the invitation letters stating they would be responsible for ensuring their timely return.  I also added a quick statement describing the purpose of the visit.

I assume she filled out one of the online applications.. Have her fax a copy to you and see if any of the i's were not dotted or t's crossed.

I watched a couple interviews from a close distance in Rome when my wife/daughter applied, they seemed rather 'intense'.  Out of 10 or so applicants I probably saw 3 sad faces leaving.

Hope things work out in the end..

[Vaughn]

BC, good points all around. We're going to follow William's advice at this
stage and cast an appeal through the Congresswoman. Failing that, we'll
try a second petition.

She filled out the application by hand with a Pony Express rep guiding her.
I will check on her employment letter's forcefulness.

[William3rd]

Here's the standard- the burden is on the applicant to prove eligibility for the benefit-in this case a tourist visa-by clear and convincing evidence. An application that leaves any doubt in the examiner's mind must be denied.

Good luck!!!

[Wayne]

I think the mistake is she "filled the form in by hand"  The embassy will only accept the electronic form filled in on the computer in English on the English form and printed out exactly after the bar-code is included.  The information is linked to the bar code and to the final visa.  If you read the embassy site information, you will see there is no way that a hand filled in form will be accepted.  The worker just saw the way the form was filled out and refused the visa. The form is trasnlated into several languages--but not in Russian!

The fact that you are paying for the trip could be a problem for the embassy.  If you start over with a new application, I would look very closely at what you say in this letter, and not have her present it unless they ask for it.  Usually, the reason for making the trip is not so important--the proof that she will return to Russia is the main thing they are looking for.

[groovlstk]

I think the mistake is she "filled the form in by hand"  The embassy will only accept the electronic form filled in on the computer in English on the English form and printed out exactly after the bar-code is included.  The information is linked to the bar code and to the final visa.  If you read the embassy site information, you will see there is no way that a hand filled in form will be accepted.  The worker just saw the way the form was filled out and refused the visa. The form is trasnlated into several languages--but not in Russian!

Wayne might be onto something. My wife's mom came to visit us in July and, just as we had to do when my wife filled out her DS-156 prior to her interview, I had to coach her to use the embassy's online procedure, otherwise the barcode would not appear on the completed form. There's no way this form can be completed by hand and still be accepted.

FWIW, we sent lots of documentation to my MIL for the interview and the interviewer (an American man who spoke very good Russian) didn't ask for any of it.

[William3rd]

mother in laws are treated a little different than sister in laws. . . .

[groovlstk]

Insufficient documentation. Yet no specific area of interest listed.

According to the Moscow embassy site:

All non-immigrant visa applicants must submit a completed Electronic Visa Application Form DS-156. Visa applications prepared using the old visa application form are no longer accepted. [The old form was one which could be completed by hand.-ed] After filling out the Electronic Visa Application Form online at http://evisaforms.state.gov, applicants will be able to print a copy of their visa application, which will include their data in a barcode format.

Again, as Wayne pointed out, the DS-156 is not a form that can be completed by hand. If the form wasn't completed online and printed - or was completed by hand (meaning there was no barcode generated on the form she bought to the interview) - then this may qualify as "incomplete documentation."

[Vaughn]

I think the mistake is she "filled the form in by hand"

Now that you've brought that up, I'll admit I thought she filled in the form
DS-156 by hand. I'm probably wrong. Mama did it that way in 2004, and I really
never noticed the procedure change. Since my assumption proved questionable,
I won't neglect to ask specifically if Venera did it by hand - and hopefully put that
issue to rest as we proceed.


We appreciate all you sinking your collective teeth into our dilemma. I just returned
from the State Rep's office - they were very positive, but only willing to approach
the Consulate well-armed; hence, I've got a 2-page letter listing many documents
they'll need - it's going to consume a few days, gathering, faxing, translating etc.

The fact that you are paying for the trip could be a problem for the embassy.

Honestly, I'm having trouble understanding this rationale.

[BC]

Quote from: Wayne on Today at 18:55:28
The fact that you are paying for the trip could be a problem for the embassy.

Honestly, I'm having trouble understanding this rationale.

It's pretty simple.. Consulates like to see someone that has cash in their account to cover costs of the visit.  Is quite the same here in EU.  My inlaws are visiting now on a Schengen visa that was 'backed up' by some funds in their account.  They are staying for 90 days so the minimum was around 5k US.  Guess where that came from..

I think consulates see 'guarantees' along the lines of 'money talks, bs walks'.