VISITING ONE versus VISITING MANY

[Photo Guy]

I've been datingin this arena since December. I'm new at it.
I had exchanged letters with RW back in '97. For me it's not a
pointless argument. It's an interesting subject. Donna has mentioned an
idea that I've already considered independently:

Women who are willing to play by the 'man's rules' are more desperate than those who are not willing to do that. Along the same logic, I think it also may be possible that women who are quickly affectionate also may be more desperate. It's logical isn't it? She wants that green card and she dreams of an easier life within the American Dream. That type of woman could easily use any approach that she thinks will work: seductive photos,
a name like Hot To Trot, a French kiss in the first 5 minutes, and she is SO amazed by his brilliant personality.

I think we should just conclude that many different approaches can succeed and many different strategies can also fail. True?

It just bugs me that I've been warned that MY approach is wrong, misguided, impractical, etc. Let me fail or succeed without forcing your strategy down my throat.

However, I do think it's fine to warn newbies. Tell them that Svetlana may turn out to be Fat Yuri or some other faker. Urge newbies to go visit some women over there. I would have visited more than one myself, if I didn't think she was someone special to focus in on.

To this day, I am surprised that she was just as special as her emails.
I thought there might be some things about her that would disqualify her, or vice versa. But, she really is fantastic and if it doesn't work out I will have no regrets about our communications and meeting.   Doug

[anono]

Women who are willing to play by the 'man's rules' are more desperate than those who are not willing to do that. Along the same logic, I think it also may be possible that women who are quickly affectionate also may be more desperate. It's logical isn't it?

this is so flawed, it is not worth commenting on other than to grab it and quote it. nothing "logical" about it at all, it is nothing more than a misguided supposition.

desperate because they play by the man's rules..good grief! so that flawed "logic" supports the next incredible supposition, that since doug didn't get a kiss in7-10 days spent with a lady, and anyone else who did, well, it's becausethe lady who does kiss youis desperate...gooder grief!

glad you put "may" in there doug. but man,...

since a woman who plays by any man's rules is desperate, using this "logic", then i suppose it is only "logical" to suggest any man playing by a woman's rules is desperate also.

since this is a man's world, a man playing by a woman's rules must be even more desperate.

this being a man's world, i am going to keep playing by my rules, thank you.

[BC]

Strict logic does not apply to this realm..  If it were so we would have figured it out long ago. My suggestion is stop 'anal'ysing and simply experience.

Fortunately it will remain a mystery.. whatever floats your boat is just fine with me:D

[anono]

hey BC! we're closer to the same time zone i see...

yeah, living here over a year now, i see how totally lost the average american male is, how our society has been brainwashing us for decades.

i can see more clearly now, why i left the usa at age 18, just knowing it had to be better elsewhere. the alpha male is becoming extinct in america.

[Donna_Pedro]

anono

this being a man's world, i am going to keep playing by my rules, thank you.


A civilized American or european woman will redicule you if you ever tell her its a mans world.    US and Western Europe are  anymore as much a man's culture as it is a woman's one.   A "man's world" only exists where economic situation is desperate, ie where people are desperate.   Russia indeed is a man's world. You all are going there for a easy way to feel yourselvs dominating males.  AW will never let a "man's world" happen in the family.    Personally I wanted to establish equality right from the first moment.  Any man who is with me is going to consider my opinion when "choosing the rules" or he can go to h..ll.   Would not it be this way with any confident WW?  Every day on RWA I see tens of women  complaining that their american husbands are playing by their rules with no regard to their opinions etc. I keep telling them - you let him see how desperate you were, you let him play by  his rules back in russia, so what are you complaining now? And manhood is not in your pants, anono...

[anono]

ridicule me all you want donna. now that you have been in the usa a few years, your an expert on american and western european women. you know what they think. you know thw women from my country that i have lived in for 49 years better than i do, i am sure

i have not said a word about sharing a woman's opinion of things in my decision making when with a woman because i always listen and appreciate the opinion of any woman in my company. i also treat all the women in my life as equals and have an equal say in anything we consider doing. in fact, i bet more than half the time i do what the woman wants to do. i grew up with a mother and two sisters with strong opinions. they had five brothers to contend with. i never said a word about not considering a woman's opinion. your post has nothing to do with what i am discussing mainly with doug. i have always had a confident woman in my life. i would not be able to stand a weak woman. if you read what doug is saying, he is trying to tell us a woman who plays by men's rules is desperate. i am simply showing how silly that is, by saying well, then, a man must be desperate to play by a woman's rules. it doesn't work that way for either sex.

just as you told us not long ago, it'll be YOUR rules or the guy can take a hike.  nothing about equality there.

all i am saying is i am going to do this my way and not by some woman's rules, just like you will not by a man's rules.

i didn't feel i had to explain further what you have said here. it is a mutual cooperation.

but i am not going to sit here and let someone try and tell me anyone who plays by the other sexes rules are desperate. or that a woman who shows affection quickly is somehow desperate.

that was the topic, not the interaction i have with a woman when playing by my rules. my rules include the woman's rules. it's called co-operation. i said i play by my rules, i did not say a woman has to play by my rules. when i play with a woman, it's with our rules. a mutual desire to do the same thing based on an understand of mutually agreed upon rules we make as we get to know each other and develop rapport.

if a woman is going to expect fidelity from me or expect me to only date her after one meeting without knowing each other, i am not going to then play by her rules because it does not include mine.

A civilized American or european woman will redicule you if you ever tell her its a mans world.  

simply because you say something it does not mean its true. did you take a poll? i have said all my life, while living in the usa that it is a man's world..  no one ridicules me. i'm just stating the facts. are you going to try and say it's a woman's world? it isn't and we all know it. it's man's world is a common expression where i live and i live right in the middle of the usa. 

i haven't paid much attention to you in the past, do you live in the states? i think some of what kenC says earlier in this thread is exactly right,. do you see what is on american TV and how they portray men?

it does not even come close to being equal. we're made to look like effeminate, timid idiots.

it being a man's world has nothing to do with economic conditions. not in the way i intend it to mean. it's more about power than economics.

i agree with you it their has to be equality in relationships. mutually agreed upon ground rules for living together. no problem. we're talking about fidelity and monogamy to someone you haven't even kissed or really even know. our dating rules may differ but not relationship rules.

look for your fight elsewhere. you're a lot like most RW here, simply looking to disagree with anything and everything a AM posts.


it'd be interesting to read what RM would say if they read these posts.

 Any man who is with me is going to consider my opinion when "choosing the rules" or he can go to h..ll.  

i don't remember you saying you'd consider a mans opinion when you told us a little ways back that a man would have to play by your rules. sounds like you do not consider a man's opinion yet you expect him to consider yours? that's equal?  maybe to you it is.

reminds me of "i like agreeable people, as long as they agree with me"

i never said a thing about not considering a woman's opinion. i just said it's man's world and it is.

[Turboguy]

Humm, some of us are trying hard to be nice. Makesme wonder if it is worth the effort. Iguess it is just sorta too boring to stayaway from things since you are not with jat the moment.

[Donna_Pedro]

it does not even come close to being equal. we're made to look like effeminate, timid idiots

Russia is a man's world. Thats why AM like it so much, because its opposite to US, that is clearly a woman's world. I agree, its rather hard to remain a man in a country where the culture grew so backwards on this matter.

i said i play by my rules, i did not say a woman has to play by my rules.

 

 and what happens if she does not? :cool::cool:

Its rather easy to be a man in a man's world especially in the country where ecomony is so bad that many women would like to leave the country. If one refuses to play by your rules- hey, its a man's world, there are so many others that will. I have to agree with Doug on some matters. A lot of RW are desperate. Its a fact. And it effects their behavoir. There is no flaws in this logic. The same with affectionate women. Not all affectionate women are desperate, but concidering that russians are a rather reserved culture, we do not exactly show passionate emotions to strangers, its a bit.... unusual if a woman kisses and talks "love" quickly. It might be a sign of desperation.  

 

[Muzh]

So that is why you are on lists like this looking?  Or are you one of those that will have to put "it" on a table and compare whose is bigger?  I know where I put mine and I don't have to compare.

[anono]

US, that is clearly a woman's world

let's see, who built ..well, just about everything...

ok. who runs, well....just about everything...

that's what i mean about it's a man's world donna. i do not come here because it's a man's world. two years ago i had no idea what it was like here. i did not come here to find a desperate or subservient woman. the usa is full of them. you have no idea who or what i am, any more than i know you. you can think what you want of the men who come over here, but that does not mean you have a clue as to my motivations or what i think. i see the men who come over here and they are all kinds. not just guys looking for a wife they can boss around.

they are trying to make it a woman's world in the usa but nothing can or ever will reverse basic genetic instincts. they are just confusing a lot of people. i'm not one of the confused. i guess that's what i mean about knowing what's in my pants and who wears them.

i wasn't born yesterday, i am sure i have enough life experience to know if someone is desperate. i have seen enough of the world (and i am sure much much more of it than you ever have or will) to know what i am doing. not all the women here are desperate or subservient women trying to escape their environment. i think i know the difference. but thanks for trying to look out for me.

you are trying to twist this into something i never said or has anything to really do with what i am saying. but, since you're the expert on everything and claim to know what huge numbers of other people think, i'm not going to try and argue with you.

and what happens if she does not? :cool::cool:

well, beat them and shackle them in the basement with the others, of course.:cool::cool:

[Leslie]

I have no problem with you.  Why should I?  We will never meet.

 

I do have a problem when you post puerile rubbish which purports to be advice. 

 

It could be read by a new comer and reinforce his lonely, needy behaviour, leading to disastrous results……

 

You wrote -

 

What you described was not really dating, but just ****ing around.  I did the same years ago and had a few "little black books."  I was told it was the accent.

However, if and when you decide to look for a life-time partner, what you just mentioned will be out the window.  A funny thing happens when a man falls for a woman.  It feels as if she somehow detaches your dick and has sole possession of it.  Even when you are hanging out with your buddies, she will still own the remote to your dick.  You will only use it for getting rid of the beer you drink with your buddies.

Right now you are in an envious position.  You own your own dick.  There will come a day that it will be hanging in a wall mount at her place, so enjoy it while it last.

 

 

So when you meet an acceptable life time partner you fall in love so far, so fast and so completely that you hand her the emotional controls to your life.

 

(I won't use your locker room slang but this is the intellectual gist of your statement.)

 

This psychopathology is present in every train wreck story I have read on the boards in the last 5 years.

 

 

[Photo Guy]

If the woman plays by your rules, what exactly does that mean?
It's vague and ambiguous. For example, with the new woman in Bruno's
trip report, is he playing by his rules or hers?
 
The entire 'man's rules' versus 'women's rules' concept just does not make sense to me. If you want to say that in some ways a man should be dominant, I agree and understand.

The history of Ukraine shows us that its society was matriarchal. Before the Soviet Union, women controlled and dominated family life and probably used a strong velvet glove. Keep that in mind.

I think the bottom line is love and respect and how those two concepts are implemented in a marriage. If a woman feels disrespected because her lover  chooses not to be monogamous, it would be a problem of disrespect, having nothing to do with 'man's rules' or 'women's rules'. If you cite examples of science or statistical studies that support the idea that monogamy is not prevalent or an unrealistic goal, then you will be sabotaging your own relationship or marriage.

If she doesn't want to French kiss in the first seven days, that's okay. It has nothing to do with rules. I can still feel affection for her and give her respect that allows me to have patience with her. There are success stories that support my positive attitude toward her. And I know her better than anyone here.

Your woman may be perfect for you. That's great. Just as some have warned me that her behavior is negative or objectionable, I can sincerely advise you that the opposite behavior, a woman who is all over you like a cheap suit, can also be logically viewed as desperate behavior motivated by less than honest intentions.

If she f&%ks you in the first week, it means:
a) She has never met an amazing stud like you.
b) She is so horny she would behave that way with anyone.
c) Her goal is to relocate, no matter what it requires.
d) You are her soul mate. She has finally found you!! Yup.

If she doesn't f&%k you in the first week, it means
a) You are repugnant to her.
b) It goes against her 'three week' rule.
c) She doesn't want you to think she is as desperate as she is.
d) She wants to get to know you better first to see if she likes you
   as a potential husband.

You should be thinking about all of these possibilities.
Follow your instincts. Find a woman who you can love and respect.
Be considerate of her - her needs, her emotions, everything she is.
If you do some behavior that really bothers her, change your behavior.
Or move on. That's okay. That's respectful - and has nothing to do with 'man's rules' versus 'women's rules'.

The great thing about women from the FSU whoare married to western men, is that there seems to be much more respect between couples, more than between American couples.
...Is that true, or just a false impression?  Doug

[deden]

Seriously Doug, get on the clue bus.

Clue #1

"If she f&%ks you in the first week, it means:
a) She has never met an amazing stud like you.
b) She is so horny she would behave that way with anyone.
c) Her goal is to relocate, no matter what it requires.
d) You are her soul mate. She has finally found you!! Yup."

How about sex is natural when you are physically attracted to someone?  Read some books on women and attraction.

 

Clue #2

"If the woman plays by your rules, what exactly does that mean?"

Just off the top of my head I'd say- compatiable, similar views, delineation of roles, what your looking for, one reason why you may want to get to know her better, she respects you.  Dude, it means that you are in control of YOUR destiny in finding the RIGHT lady for you, not her choosing for you.

Clue #3

"The entire 'man's rules' versus 'women's rules' concept just does not make sense to me. "

You see, its not about "man's" rules or "women's" rules, its about YOUR rules which define what YOU are looking for and not settling for less.  You are a MAN so it's okay to refer to it as the "man's" rules.  Its the basic character, personality, etc. requirements (also know as rules) in what you must have in a wife, partner, sig other, dog, sheep, whatever.

Clue #4

"For example, with the new woman in Bruno's
trip report, is he playing by his rules or hers?"

With all due respect to Bruno who shared some very tough emotions with us on his trip report (and certainly a great report), it was Luda's rules he played by.  If you read the report again, you'll see that she controlled him from the beginning.  At first she says she will not see him than tells him she will.  She had him eating out of her hand the rest of the trip even though she knew from the get go she was never going to divorce her husband.  Bruno lost sight of his mission, to find a wife.  Sure he thought she was the one but he should have taken control and at least interviewed (for lack of a better word) her in the beginning meetings as to her suitability of playing by his rules.  Questions such as how would your family feel about you and your son living in Belguim, have you ever been married, are you divorced, etc. could have revealed early on she wasn't going to get divorced.  Never loose sight of your mission and remain in control.  Another important lesson from this is to always have a plan "B".


clue #5

"The great thing about women from the FSU is that there seems to be much more respect between couples, than between American couples.
...Is that true, or just a false impression?"

Com' on, get real.  Check out how many profiles there are with single women that are divorced, not married with children, etc.  These women are like AW with a few minor differences and most of these are in regards to the difference in dating rules of Russian men versus the average American man and that these women have more of the feminine characteristics (please don't confuse feminine with weakness, as weak they are NOT).  These women can drag your ass through divorce court as bitterly there as they can here if they choose to.  Respect between couples is determined by the couple, not nationalality.  Russian men can be very abusive to their wives just as American men can.

clue #6

There is no real generalities between RW and AW.  It truly comes down to YOU.  YOU make the decisions on how YOUR trip will be, who YOU will write, who YOU will visit, how YOUR relationships will go, what YOU will settle for, what YOU will put up with, what YOUR destiny will be.  The key is YOU, not them, not us!  They are unique, but the are still women and YOU are still the same man YOU are here.

Doug, I realize you had your first trip and it was a VO trip.  Truly, I suggest that you choke up the bucks and do one of Jacks tours or a similiar tour and meet more RW.  You will be amazed and better able to understand them if you have interactions with more than the one you just met.  You truly need to experience some more candy stores before you decide which store is best.

[Bruno]

Clue #4

"For example, with the new woman in Bruno's
trip report, is he playing by his rules or hers?"

With all due respect to Bruno who shared some very tough emotions with us on his trip report (and certainly a great report), it was Luda's rules he played by.  If you read the report again, you'll see that she controlled him from the beginning.  At first she says she will not see him than tells him she will.  She had him eating out of her hand the rest of the trip even though she knew from the get go she was never going to divorce her husband.  Bruno lost sight of his mission, to find a wife.  Sure he thought she was the one but he should have taken control and at least interviewed (for lack of a better word) her in the beginning meetings as to her suitability of playing by his rules.  Questions such as how would your family feel about you and your son living in Belguim, have you ever been married, are you divorced, etc. could have revealed early on she wasn't going to get divorced.  Never loose sight of your mission and remain in control.  Another important lesson from this is to always have a plan "B".

Against this problem about man/woman control and leadership... everybody seem to see only the black and white, but forget the several grey's...

We make again the sex war for see who have the control... in the real life, it is not so... sometime, the man is in control... sometime, the woman... and several time, the two, result of some negociation who lead to a mutual decision...

Maybe several of you have only work like leader and don't know the power of work together... until now, on these topic, i see only extreme meaning... the man in control of the woman... what about sharing the control and try to find a solution together, make negociation...

And about Luda and me, it was my mistake... from the very beginning, she have say that she was separated... not divorced... i have same write it in my report during my stay... only i have not make attention about it... Is Luda responsible because i don't have take care of something she have say from the very beginning ? Certainly not, she was honest from the beginning... only me have not good listen what she have say... and the time is against us... if i was Ukrainian and living there, i was able to stay more long time with her and certainly with the time, she have change of mind...

And i am not so desesperate that i wish only marry the first coming... Luda was the model of woman i like... and if our relation have not lead to a marriage, this change nothing... she have change my point of view about woman and give me hope... really, now, i will be more difficult in my choose...

And about her control me, you was not with us... you have read only a short report... my note are maybe 5 time more long... and what we have life in a short time was more long... several time, i have say : i will not... not always, i have agree with her... but always we have speak and find a conpromice...

Your view of man world is a view from Macho man... the other view present here is a view of feminist... what about a view, where no one control the other, where people share meaning and decision, work together.... i think that these middle view is the usual view for each strong couple...

Since the perfect partner don't exist, nobody is perfect... living together don't need one to have the control but a sharing of the power and decision... and when some problem appear, find solution who are good for the two... trying to have the full control, it is the best way who lead a marriage to the divorce in a short of long time...

Really, these notion of control is something really out of topic in a relation... a relation is sharing, nothing more...

 

[Donna_Pedro]

[user=245]deden[/user]

How about sex is natural when you are physically attracted to someone?  Read some books on women and attraction.

Normally, even if there is a strong physical attraction, a woman would rather keep away from sex on the first date, if she sees a perspective of a future serious relationship.  Its not a rule, though,  but  something to think of.  Would you mind if I dont read those books, since I kinda grew up in my culture?  

If the woman plays by your rules, what exactly does that mean?"
Just off the top of my head I'd say- compatiable, similar views, delineation of roles

Show me one woman who will come here and say that she ENJOYED the fact that her future husband visited another dozen of women along with her and I will believe it.  Personally I have not seen one yet.

requirements (also know as rules) in what you must have in a wife, partner, sig other, dog, sheep, whatever.

nice row of things... :cool: I am impressed.  Are those dogs, ships, wifes and whatevers  allowed to have their own set of requirements as refered  to dating, sir? I  guess not - The key is YOU, not them, not us!

Wow... No comments.


You truly need to experience some more candy stores before you decide which store is best.

not dogs or ships we are anymore... candy stores. Let me translate it into a woman's language... "You truely need to shop for  some more dicks and wallets before you decide which dick is the longest and the wallet  - the biggiest".. :cool: (reminds me a good old anekdote - " A woman asks her husband what a confusion is. And he says "hmm.. confusion is... like... imagine you walk into our bedroom and see me in bed with another woman. It would be a confusion... The woman: "I understood, its like you walk into our bedroom and see me in bed with  one of your friends".. A man: "No, no,, this one is not a confusion, its you being a who..e...":cool: )

I need to  invite the candies  from russian fiance forum here. Let them read these things, before they come here, as I consider this particular post  is of a great educational value to  poor innocent  ships, dogs and whatevers.  

_____________


 Я ох...ваю, дорогая редакция...

[andrewfi]

The discussion about 'rules' and stuff just seems odd to me. I stand by what I wrote upthread about guys who claim that, in finding a foreign bride, one at a time is the best way to go. It is misguided and here is why...

If we know that not every woman is one's optimal match then we know that we will probably have to meet more than one woman to find one's optimum match. So, if one is getting on a big silver bird to meet a woman and start to get to know her during one's holidays, then one has perhaps the opportunity to meet two women per year. This is hardly good odds is it?

I met one 'new woman' and two exisitng girlfriends just this last weekend and I sure as hell would not want to be making a definitive choice on the basis of this past weekend.

If you believe that one can 'know' a person fully enough to have established physical attraction by email then perhaps there might be a point, but the reality is that we can not do this, notwithstanding that we might like what a person writes, how they look in their pictures etc. Those held up as role models would have been singing a dfferent story if the pheromones had not matched in the first few seconds of meeting. Mere chance dictates that some will find a match in this manner. Love at first sight happens... But in the real world, one can safely bet against it.

The women in the FSU are playing the game backwards to those in the US and men need to remember and be aware of it. Those men who act irrationally will and ignore the different numeric situation in the FSU, in the end, pay the price.

Partner selection is, essentially, a numbers game. Forget morals, forget man/woman stuff, it is just about numbers. Meet several potential mates and make a selection from an adequate field. Reduce the field and one increases the likelihood of failure. It is probably not a difficult matter to determine, mathematically, the optimum number of contacts needed to achieve a marriage that lasts a minimum of five years.

[Turboguy]

That was a great answer Donna.   My hat is off to you.  

Bruno, I have to agree with you.   What minute difference does it make if you were playing by her rules or by yours.   You had a wonderful but painful experience.   I think you learned a lot from it.  I have always believed some things happen as a growing experience for us.   Other things happen because they are meant to be.

Actually your story with Luda reminds me a lot of something that happened in my life long ago.  At the time I was very sad and dissapointed but through a long chain of events that experience brought me to my search for a FSU woman.   I can look back now and see it was an event that I learned from and that shaped my life in the future.  I think that you have learned more about what is important for you and in the early part of your tale, you have avoided a disaster.

I think there are too many people who try to analize all the events of the romantic world by some stupid book they read or some stupid rule they have created that they think controls the fate of mankind.   There are dozens more books with just as logical a theory that differ.   You can find books that tell you all is controlled by the placement of the stars, or the ying and yang of being in harmony with the world.  Life is about living and being happy and finding a good woman and having a nice life together.  Life is more than about being an alpha male, playing by the males rules, being a macho, gung ho jerk or a wuss.  

[BC]

Those held up as role models would have been singing a dfferent story if the pheromones had not matched in the first few seconds of meeting.

Yes Andrew.. maybe would be interesting to exchange worn items of intimate clothing first. Any idea if there is a duty on pheromones? Maybe scratch n sniff catalogs a good idea?

Just funning you.. Agree that they do play an important but sometimes ignored role with youth, looks and dependency often getting the upper hand.

After reading anono's first 'j' post I suggested he go ahead and dedicate. I think she would have appreciated the gesture. That's ok though as I wish him the best before the alphabet runs out

[KenC]

[user=115]Donna_Pedro[/user] wrote:

[deden]

Donna Wrote

"Normally, even if there is a strong physical attraction, a woman would rather keep away from sex on the first date, if she sees a perspective of a future serious relationship.  Its not a rule, though,  but  something to think of.  Would you mind if I dont read those books, since I kinda grew up in my culture?"

Show me exactly Donna where I said first date????  If a guy writes a lady for months and than visits her, the two of them may be very attracted to each other.   Just because after 4, 5, or 6 dates have ocurred doesn't mean that if they do have sex, she's all over him like a cheap suit as was originally implied by photoguy.


"Show me one woman who will come here and say that she ENJOYED the fact that her future husband visited another dozen of women along with her and I will believe it.  Personally I have not seen one yet."

Again, show me exactly where I said she would enjoy it?  Its not about whether she enjoys him visiting other women or not, its about him meeting the women that's right for him!  Its like another poster said in another thread, wouldn't she want to know that you choose her because she was the best not because she was the only one he met?  And quite frankly Donna, it takes in many cases meeting more than one women to find the right women. 

"nice row of things... :cool: I am impressed.  Are those dogs, ships, wifes and whatevers  allowed to have their own set of requirements as refered  to dating, sir? I  guess not "

Of course wives can, although I'm not sure dogs, sheep or ships date.  Obviously my context was a little more broader than just "dating" and referred to what you are looking for whether it be a wife, a car or a plane.  We all have an idea of what we want in something and when you start compromising what your crieteria is, you end up with something less than what you wanted.    However, the point I was making (since you didn't quite get it) was about MEN who go over to the FSU looking for wives should stick with their rules, and not be forced into only meeting one women (by that women)!  If she has her own set of rules and don't like his, she's free to move on!  Don't take it so personal Donna.  The search is about finding a wife whose rules coincide with yours and the chance of that happening in meeting just one women is very slim.

"not dogs or ships we are anymore... candy stores. Let me translate it into a woman's language... "You truely need to shop for  some more dicks and wallets before you decide which dick is the longest and the wallet  - the biggiest".. :cool: (reminds me a good old anekdote - " A woman asks her husband what a confusion is. And he says "hmm.. confusion is... like... imagine you walk into our bedroom and see me in bed with another woman. It would be a confusion... The woman: "I understood, its like you walk into our bedroom and see me in bed with  one of your friends".. A man: "No, no,, this one is not a confusion, its you being a who..e...":cool: )

I need to  invite the candies  from russian fiance forum here. Let them read these things, before they come here, as I consider this particular post  is of a great educational value to  poor innocent  ships, dogs and whatevers.

Whatever, better yet get the ladies to post here as well.  Would be a great opportunity for some of the newbies to really see how similiar to American women some of these FSU women are and dispell a lot of the myths associated with FSU women.  Would convert more of the WOVO camp to WMVM.


Donna, your reaction definately shows how women such as yourself try to control the man's decision in his search for a wife.  Of course you would not want someone to see other women because he just might find that you are not the best choice for him.  God forbid that he finds someone who is.


Now if you could only get ships to post here as well, the board could be called Russian Women on Ships Discussion board. 

[andrewfi]

Deden ~ Your reaction definately shows how women such as yourself try to control the man's decision in his search for a wife.  Of course you would not want someone to see other women because he just might find that you are not the best choice for him.  God forbid that he finds someone who is.

This is important, it is not that the women are any 'badder' than anwhere else, but they have a goal of finding a foreign husband then they know that, in most cases, they have very few chances to win the big prize. It is absolutely in their interest to cajole the man into seeing only her, or making sure that he sees only her by direct action. (Refusing to see him if he is going to see other women.)

The men and women do have different goals here. The women want to leave their country, love may well be on their list of priorities, as may finding the optimum match. Sadly though, love and optimum match are not as high for most women as they are for the men. Most women, will, in the end, make an 'acceptable' choice. If they were going to do otherwise, they would not even be looking abroad, or registered with a marriage agency.

In Europe and the US matters are much more even and so the rules are different, guys who do not realise this fundamental difference will accept what they are told and be 'ringed' by the first woman who tells the to be exclusive and who makes herself available to him. It is strange to see this process occurring, for real and the way that guys are confused by what is happening to them. When they regain control over their own destiny, things improve. This takes nothing away from the women, except that they, like the men, must now compete for the attention of the person they want to be with.

[deden]

Bruno,

Having a set of rules or criteria in what you are seeking in a wife is not about control over a relationship or a women.  Control is about sticking to that set of rules to find the women that best meets what you are looking for in a wife and not be blinded by someone that appears to be what you are looking for.  The goal is to find someone that is exactly what you are looking for.   Believe me, your story was at times painful to read and I was rooting for you all the way!  But, you did not find what you were looking for, you came close, but when it was all said and done, you ended up empty handed and broken hearted.  The point was you lost control of why you were really there and that was to find a wife, not a friend, not a lover, but someone who was ready to make a life time comittment to you that meets the criteria of what you want in a wife.

Was she in control?  You bet she was.  Bruno, while I wasn't there I can tell you that you lost control of your situation with Luda the minute you agreed to move into her dorm without establishing whether she met ALL of your criteria (being single was one of them).  Once she had you in her dorm (how convienient), it was almost impossible for you to continue your pursuit of why you were really there.  She had you for the remainder of the trip knowing full well she was never leaving her husband and never marrying you.  And you were a willing participant without a clue that you were being led to slaughter (that be the eventual heartbreak when she says shes not divorcing the husband).  If you were in control, you would not have been blindsided at the end nor been heart broken.  I'm not saying by any means that she was a bad women.  I'm just saying that she had control of of the situation whether it be intentional on her part or not.

I might also add that you lost control with the first gal when you let her intimidate you into playing by her rules which allowed her (at least for a short period of time) to pressure you into visiting her folks after you discovered the truth about her affair.  When she said she would throw you out of the apartment, you should just have said there was no need and packed your stuff and walked out!  Yes Bruno, the women in your story controlled you.

Bruno, its not about being macho, its about not forgetting why you are there and never compromising on what criteria you've established for which women would best suit you to fullfil your goal in this endeavor (and being married can never be part of the criteria when looking for a potential wife).  Its about not turning over the control of your quest to one of the women you may be considering.  The allure of the FSU women is very powerful and it is like a kid being in a candy store (sorry Donna, couldn't resist) and it is easy to go astray unintentionally.  That's why it is so important to stay focused on the goal and stay in control of your rules and your emotions.  That's also why in my response to photoguy I said the KEY is YOU, not them, not us.

Bruno, your trip report was excellent and serves well for the newbies on the dangers that lurk (yep, this endeavour is not as easy as it seems sometimes).  I'm sure you learned a lot from your trip as have others.  I only wish you the best but stay focused man and have a plan B next go around.

[anono]

 Would you mind if I dont read those books, since I kinda grew up in my culture?  

donna, i believe deden directed this to photoguy, not you. you either are still having a difficult time with english or where there is not a disagreement, you try and creat one by trying to twist the discussion into something it isn't, as you did previously to me.

 

[Donna_Pedro]

anono

Anono, dont take it personal...

deden

they do have sex, she's all over him like a cheap suit as was originally implied by photoguy.


As I said I would not make conclusions based just on the fact of sex. But as a part of the whole picture, the fact of being overly affectionate with the person you harly know can indicate a desperate woman.

The search is about finding a wife whose rules coincide with yours and the chance of that happening in meeting just one women is very slim.

We are going in circles here...:cool: As I said I have not seen a woman who would be happy with this particular rule (I mean VM strategy). 99,9% of women who let this happen  -  COMPROMIZE!!!!  (I suggest all of you VM guys print out these words  and put them in a frame.)   You  said  that you dont want to compromize yourself,  as it reduces the level of outcome, but you expect to find a woman who will do it for you. She does not know you, why should she?

Donna, your reaction definately shows how women such as yourself try to control the man's decision in his search for a wife.

 And you think I should have compromized? Give me a single  reason why.  

[deden]

Turboguy wrote:

That was a great answer Donna.   My hat is off to you.  

LOL, you gotta be kidding. 

Bruno, I have to agree with you.   What minute difference does it make if you were playing by her rules or by yours.  

Well for one, he ended up broken hearted and has to start over from scratch.

 You had a wonderful but painful experience.   I think you learned a lot from it.  I have always believed some things happen as a growing experience for us.   Other things happen because they are meant to be.

"You can find books that tell you all is controlled by the placement of the stars, or the ying and yang of being in harmony with the world"  Guess we can now add fate to that list as well?  Believe it or not, some things happen because of poor choices people make.

I think that you have learned more about what is important for you and in the early part of your tale, you have avoided a disaster.

Kind of like jumping from the frying pan into the fire, eh?  One heart break after another.

I think there are too many people who try to analize all the events of the romantic world by some stupid book they read or some stupid rule they have created that they think controls the fate of mankind.  

Control the fate of mankind?  Where did you get that from?  Geez, aren't we jumping a little ahead of ourselves here?  Just because you may think a book is stupid, doesn't mean it is any less valid or accurate.

Life is more than about being an alpha male, playing by the males rules, being a macho, gung ho jerk or a wuss. 

Don't think my post said anything about being an alpha male, being macho, a gung ho jerk,  a wuss or by playing by the males rules.  I believe if you re-read it you will find I said to play by YOUR rules and that you are the KEY to your destiny.

Yeah, great answer Donna, lol