Music I love

[Gator]

I don't mind some occasional country music - say 2 or 3 songs, after that they become rather monotonous for me, and I find the Hawaiian guitar grating after a while - after all, that's where R'n'R started from, mixed with black blues music .

IINM, its origins can be traced to Irish music - reels for the fast pieces and airs for the slow ones .

Sandro,
 
Even though math was my best subject in school, I am too weakly equipped to even discuss much less debate the physical science of music.  However, I grew up in the South a long time ago, so I can comment as a personal observer who enjoyed R'n'R even though I can not carry a tune.  I admit that I am biased because of many personal discoveries made while R'n'R was in the background.     
 
Based on what I observed,  I assert that country music had little influence on  rock n' roll.  Long before there was country music, the white farmers played bluegrass which derived from Scot-Irish  immigrants residing in Southern Appalachia.  Bluegrass has much more of a knee slapping dance beat than country music, so I can sense some connection albeit a weak one.   
 
BTW, my father sold flour to Bill Monroe and his store in Kentucky.  Country music and its sister, cowboy songs, developed in the 1920s according to my father and quickly passed bluegrass as the primary diet of SWASPs (Southern White Anglo-Saxon Protestant).  And that branch of the music tree had little relationship to R'n'R branch.  My parents would take me as a kid to the Grand Ole Opry when family visited us in Nashville.  I did not like it.
 
Meanwhile I was discovering something else.  It came from the black churches and I recall hearing it as we drove past black revivals.  My father said something about "jungle music," and he was fairly close to the target.  The black gospel music and the Delta blues  were the origins of rhythm and blues which I feel has the predominant influence on the origins of R'n'R in its first and second waves.   In fact, us white boys in the South did not distinguish between R&B and R'n'R other than we thought R'n'R played by white Yankees was a distant second choice.  Elvis as a white performer was the leading exception, yet he was from the South and had more soul than many black singers.   
 
Thus, country music, not even bluegrass, played a role.  I was too young to have experienced swing, yet I feel from watching clips of swing music performers that with its active dance steps it had more influence than bluegrass.
 
In respect of your opinion, I visited the R'n'R Museum in Cleveland and it has an exhibit on origins.  It does mention white folk music and country music as sources, particularly the immensely talented Hank Williams who was the lifestyle prototype for Jim Morrison.   I can understand the influence for the Yankee white R'n'R which were forms of ballads. 
 
In summary, as an observer I say the blacks gave us R&B, which was the soul branch of R'n'R that I relished as a party animal.  So while you were crooning to some greasy haired, duck-tailed American-Italian doo wop music as a young teenager, we were doing the shag at beach pavilions to "Stay" by Maurice Willaims and the Zodiacs.  To be honest us ignorant Southern kids thought the seminal group the Diamonds of "Little Darling" fame were black, so I must admit that there was a lot of crossover.   
 
 
Of course, the Beatles and their harmony changed everything followed by other Britsh groups.   Yet some of the early songs by the Beatles and the Stones were R&B, so it influenced them too.  Eric Clapton, not exactly R'n'R but an immense talent IMO, talks of his love of the Delta blues. 
 
After entering the workforce I brought to a party some R&B oldies (e. g, "Money" by George Barrett Strong, Motown's first hit), and my Yankee date asked me who are these covers of Beatles' hits.  And today when I listen to the R&B oldies, I understand how unsophisticated was the music.  Not bad, nevertheless, considering that no one had any training.  My, how the black singers could dance and scream, and such was part of the attraction!

I guess you know that it was a white disc jockey playing R&B for white audiences in the early 1950s who coined the term R'n'R. 

[SANDRO43]

Phil,
I bow to your direct, on-the-ground experience , I was using 'country music' as a generic term. However, this was the first R'n'R piece that reached our shores in 1955, also featured in the movie Blackboard Jungle of the same year:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qnOf-OMuAw[/youtube]

IINM, Bill Haley's career started as a country music performer, as did other Dixie performers like Buddy Holly, Gene Vincent, Ricky Nelson, etc.

In summary, as an observer I say the blacks gave us R&B, which was the soul branch of R'n'R that I relished as a party animal.

I agree, R&B was the 'slows' that we played at our home parties, mostly by black performers like Fats Domino, The Platters, Billy Ward, etc.   

So while you were crooning to some greasy haired, duck-tailed American-Italian doo wop music as a young teenager, we were doing the shag at beach pavilions to "Stay" by Maurice Willaims and the Zodiacs.

I don't know what you mean by that, in our very first parties we played my father's Glenn Miller's 78 rpm shellac records and learned to boogie. Before the arrival of R&B, in addition to Moonlight Serenade we used things like this for slows:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejZK2x6IyPM[/youtube]

To be honest us ignorant Southern kids thought the seminal group the Diamonds of "Little Darling" fame were black, so I must admit that there was a lot of crossover.

I still have that 45 rpm record . 
 

[Gator]

Good points! 
 
At times I have made fun of your white R'n'R selections.  Believe me, it was friendly fun.  Actually, you have done well coming from Italy where I imagine your culture had its own pop singers at the time and they were  not  doing R'n'R.   I have a good friend from Sweden, a few years older than the two of us, and the music of his youth was jazz, and the local debate was Dixieland vs. other jazz.   
 
 
I made my R'n'R origins post in the wee hours last night while helping my son revise his resume.  I awakened this morning wondering about the content of that post [sad, thinking about RWD first thing in the morning, yet you going down memory lane energizes old folks  ]. 
 
I neglected to mention two other roots for R'n'R:  1) boogie woogy (certainly influenced one R'n'R pioneer, Jerry Lee Lewis, the one and same who married his 13-yo cousin) and 2) honky tonk (country music with soul).  Oddly, these are not mentioned much in the discussions of the origins of R'n'R.  There are probably other roots I have not mentioned, illustrating that R'n'R was not a monolith, but more of an entwined labyrinth, with enough diversity for all tastes.
 
So I will continue to tease you about your white tastes such as the Beach Boys (just guessing).  However, if your youth had seen (and heard) and interacted with the black culture, you perhaps would have a different collection of 45s.  Perhaps the structure of the white music is more sophisticated and thus more appealing to your finely trained ear.   I offer this explanation:  To my untrained ear, the better white R'n'R prompted me to tap my feet while R&B compelled me to move my hips.   
 
I found this video of snippets of the oldies from 50s and 60s, and it provides a good contrast of the white R'n'R with black R&B in the early days.  Many are horrible; a few are classics.
    [youtube]

[/youtube]

[SANDRO43]

Actually, you have done well coming from Italy where I imagine your culture had its own pop singers at the time and they were  not  doing R'n'R.

Obviously not, Italian pop music up to the early 1950s was dominated by melodic belcanto performers like:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4SckvAnTRk[/youtube]
 

I have a good friend from Sweden, a few years older than the two of us, and the music of his youth was jazz, and the local debate was Dixieland vs. other jazz. 

Mine, too, since father was a lover of Dixieland - in the late 1930s he often ferried Italian biplane fighters to Budapest, and took that opportunity to bring back 'illegal' records. I grew up in a household where one often heard things like:
 

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT3Ly_-o28k [/youtube]

I neglected to mention two other roots for R'n'R:  1) boogie woogy (certainly influenced one R'n'R pioneer, Jerry Lee Lewis, the one and same who married his 13-yo cousin) and 2) honky tonk (country music with soul). Oddly, these are not mentioned much in the discussions of the origins of R'n'R.

Likely, musical influences are usually varied, an artist can pick up bits from wherever.

So I will continue to tease you about your white tastes such as the Beach Boys (just guessing).

No, I was not much impressed by them. 

However, if your youth had seen (and heard) and interacted with the black culture, you perhaps would have a different collection of 45s.

I had no direct exposure to it, only through records and I have plenty of R&B music in my dusty collection. Here's an example:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PhJUufowwI [/youtube]

Typical of the times, with its accompaniment in triplets that was copied by our first urlatori (screamers, i.e. non-melodic singers) around 1958:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqf7rYWvROU[/youtube]

Perhaps the structure of the white music is more sophisticated and thus more appealing to your finely trained ear.

Not pop music, it has a very simple dual structure of alternating strofa-ritornello (introduction-chorus). One cannot pack much of a structure into 2 minutes of music . On the other hand, blues music has, among others, the interesting feature of frequently using 'blue' notes, i.e. notes not normally in the standard scale, like, say, Eb and Bb in C major (C-D-E-F-G-A-B).
 

I found this video of snippets of the oldies from 50s and 60s, and it provides a good contrast of the white R'n'R with black R&B in the early days. Many are horrible; a few are classics.

We heard most of them here, too .

[Gator]

Mine, too, since father was a lover of Dixieland - in the late 1930s he often ferried Italian biplane fighters to Budapest, and took that opportunity to bring back 'illegal' records. I grew up in a household where one often heard things like:
 

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT3Ly_-o28k [/youtube]

The Golden Gate Quartet is fairly well known.  Such is not pure Dixieland such as "Mushrat Ramble."   What you have is black gospel from the 1930s and part of the origins of R'n'R.  I heard it coming from the black churches as a kid.
 
I had a friend who collected the 78s of blues and gospel from that era.  Such recordings are rare.   First, the blacks very already poor and then the Depression came; few had the means to buy records.  Second, the people played the songs over and over and over, essentially wearing out the grooves.  Third, people moved to the North and these were discarded.  What you have is worth money to collectors. 
 
Around this time a young man named Robert Johnson was learning to play the guitar unlike any man before him.  His story claims that before he had a guitar he nailed five strings of wire to a board and plucked away.  Legend says he sold his soul to the devil because just as Moses returned with the Golden Tablets, one day he just magically started playing his guitar.   Many call him the first seed of R'n'R.  Robert Johnson was born 100 years ago in the Mississippi Delta, poorer than a church mouse.  He died when he was 27. 
 
 
His songs are similar to each other.  The following was covered with respect by Eric Clapton, Cream et al.
 
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ33qMc1E_s[/youtube]
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[SANDRO43]

The Golden Gate Quartet is fairly well known.  Such is not pure Dixieland such as "MusKrat Ramble." What you have is black gospel from the 1930s and part of the origins of R'n'R.  I heard it coming from the black churches as a kid.

Yes, my point is that I was not too conditioned early by 'white' music only . Apart from some exceptions like Bix Beiderbecke, Dixieland jazz was mostly black music, New Orleans leading in the 1910s  followed by Chicagoan Hot Jazz in the 1920s.

[SANDRO43]

Around this time a young man named Robert Johnson was learning to play the guitar unlike any man before him.

Sounds not too unlike Big Bill Broonzy and Muddy Waters .

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JttvoGmGijU[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=838Ka13qjAk[/youtube]

[SANDRO43]

What you have is worth money to collectors.

I discarded the lot - some 100+ records - when I cleared my parents' apartment after my mother's death - they were too bulky and my record player did not have a 78 rpm capability to record them .

[Gator]

Sounds not too unlike Big Bill Broonzy and Muddy Waters .

It should because they copied Robert Johnson.  Until Robert Johnson, the guitar was not widely featured in blues music or at least not played well with a couple of exceptions.   He innovated a new style.   And how important is the guitar to R'n'R!  Muddy Waters' fame came much later.  Big Bill filled in for Robert Johnson after his death. 
 
 
His fame came after his death.  Which is befitting in that many people seriously believe he sold his soul to the devil, as covered in this clip:
 
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK4p432u8Ls&feature=related[/youtube]
 
So maybe my father was correct when complaining R'n'R was the music of the devil.
 
This is Johnson's bio when inducted into the R'n'R Hall of Fame, including praise by Eric Clapton and Keith Richards, and a mention of selling his soul.
 
http://rockhall.com/inductees/robert-johnson/

Historians do list some blues singers from the Delta who were playing before Robert Johnson.  This is the person considered the first.

http://www.slimpickens-n-doctorbaz.com/charlie-patton

However, his style was crude supposedly  and not comparable.  It must have been very difficult to share music then.  They were itinerant musicians playing on the street for tips.   Recordings were very rare.  They did not write sheets of music and kept it in their heads.  As they traveled they would occasionally bump into each other.   Some historians have attempted to trace the  evolution of the early music.   Looking at the early photos one can feel the oppressing poverty.

[JohnDearGreen]

Bartender Blues
[youtube]OCVI7UR2QGY[/youtube]
[youtube]6OnUIHEsp8Y[/youtube]

[GQBlues]

 Back when I was still courting my wife, we were in St Pete’s café Elie (sp) with one of her older sister late one night having a drink and watching a local band play. We were seated along the front row and when the band took a break, they played Michael Jackson’s Billy Jean to fill in the gap…Shameless that I am, I got up off the table and did the MJ routine (which I knew down to a ‘tee’) on the dance floor with my back facing the crowd. No one else was dancing, just me. 
 
 
I can hear raucous and noises of mostly female voices and the started seeing camera flashes. My wife’s sister started shooting a video while walking around me. I was a complete ham. When I turned around, I saw about 6 RWs taking pics and some that were seated were applauding and even some of the RMs were smiling & clapping including a couple members of the band. When I got back to my seat, my wife was staring at me, then leaned over to give me a kiss and tells me she loves me…
 
MJ, the King of Pop, is simply awesome! 
 
  When my wife first arrived, she was literally like a typical Mormon white gal from Provo, Utah. She just didn’t have a funky bone in her body. It almost hurt to watch her dance. I had to change that as she tells me she would love to learn. We first tried to get her some rhythm and joined a dance school here in LA. A little jazz, contemporary and then on up to learn some Argentine Tango. But Funk and Pop is where it’s at…and that MJ moment in St Pete was impressed deep upon her collective ‘soul’. When we go out casual dancing, she mostly stands and reservedly moves while watching me.
 
 
 
Thank goodness for xBox Kinect. Our media room is now turned into my wife’s personal dance/workout studio. Last night she scored the highest point total so far (130K/110K) with Smooth Criminal and Billy Jean. We’re getting some funk into this girl’s soul finally. Kinect was actually pretty cool because it gives her instant feedback by seeing exactly where she needed to improve. Isolation, babe, I tell her. Rhythmic isolation is the essence of soul.
 
 
Here’s a couple of Kinect sampling.
 
 


(The gal in the vids NEED to practice more though….)
 
Occasionally we’d have some of our AM/FSUW couples for some evening fun going nutty with this game. Good exercise, too. ‘Thriller’ is a blast to do.

[acrzybear]

v=fNYc0Unossc&feature=related

[Darth_Budda]

http://www.vevo.com/watch/foster-the-people/pumped-up-kicks/USSM21001718?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=watch&utm_campaign=fosterthepeople_pumpedupkicks_re


Good Summer Song, Just starting to get popular in the USA.

It's over a year old though. NPR has been planing it for a while.

It's now going Main stream,,,

[Boethius]

Better than the original -

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=hXlzci1rKNM[/youtube]

[Gylden]

Thanks Boethius,
This Dirty Mustard is good!

[JohnDearGreen]

A Woman's Needs
[youtube]goxrF4uzAV0[/youtube]
[youtube]e9Oj4RUiGQg[/youtube]

[Boethius]

Thanks Boethius,
This Dirty Mustard is good!

The radio programme (Opie and Anthony) asked homeless people to come in with a talent when they were promoting a homeless shelter appearance they'd be making.  Dirty Mustard came and sang a song he'd composed, and they were so impressed, they asked for more.  They gave him a guitar, and he sang Creep.  He's lived on the streets for quite some time, and beat addiction.

Dirty Mustard recently released his first album of his own compositions under his real name, Daniel Mustard.


http://www.danielmustardmusic.com/

[Darth_Budda]

Sharon Jones and the Dap Kings - Better things to do

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wtt7F_yEcy0[/youtube]

[GQBlues]

Beck:
 
Toad The Wet Sprocket:
 
Urge Overkill:

[Boethius]

Even if you don't like the music, the video is worth watching for the Ukrainian scenery.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKCscM4OHiQ[/youtube]

[SANDRO43]

Even if you don't like the music, the video is worth watching for the Ukrainian scenery.

Not a bad song, either .

[GQBlues]

Bill Vera & The Beaters'
 
 
Version of Jimi Hendrix's Little Wing by - Unplugged
 
Gosh, I love Irish women. Too bad Kate Beckingsale is English.

[GoodOlBoy]

Bobby Vee...
 

 
GOB

[GQBlues]

Hhhhmmm OK. I'll see your Bobby Vee and raise you..
 
Johnny Burnette's .

[GoodOlBoy]

This theme could go on for several pages GQ:
 
Young Girl....Gary Puckett and the Union Gap.
 

 
GOB