The Struggle For Ukraine

[Boethius]

Now tell me this is a regime that can coexist with Western business.

http://archive.ph/xrJkM

[krimster2]

I am certain that the pending amount of mass death in Ukraine is going to show something much worse than "property rights" being abridged
see THIS for EXACTLY what it is on the horizon, the worst humaitarian nightmare in Europe since 1945
worse than Bosnia, Croatia, Serbia, Kosovo, etc....
ethnic cleansing of Ukrainians in Ukraine
when was the last time this happened, and what was it called?
this is 2.0!!!

[fathertime]

Now tell me this is a regime that can coexist with Western business.

http://archive.ph/xrJkM

I don't blame Russia for retaliating on western businesses. Afterall, they (And their people) are having billions frozen or seized around the world by the US and other western countries. I wouldn't expect them to just permit all the western assets within their borders to just be cashed out under these circumstances.  I would expect China to also take note and the consequence being less investment in the US.  Going forward the US is a less safe investment. 

Fathertime! 

[tfcrew]

Another perspective on the evil Kremlin stooge Gabbard.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/tulsi-gabbard-thoughts-biolabs-kremlin-fixated

That certainly puts Lafond's blog into a higher gear......

Former long-shot presidential candidate and congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii is just the latest U.S. politician to seize on debunked, Kremlin-backed conspiracy theories about the supposed existence of U.S.-run bioweapon research labs in Ukraine.

But she’s the first high-profile Democrat to do so.

What started as an InfoWars talking point has been embraced by the Russian and Chinese state media and has morphed in recent days into a full blown right-wing effort to place the blame for President Putin’s deadly war on Ukraine squarely on the shoulders of the U.S. right’s usual cast of enemies, including President Biden and, of course, Anthony Fauci. Kate Riga digs into the madness here.

The capsule version of the story so far is this: The right-wing fever swamps in the U.S. have seized on the existence of run-of-the-mill research facilities in Ukraine as the real reason for Putin’s invasion, claiming the U.S. — and Fauci himself! — has been backing the work being done in these laboratories in order to create some sort of new infectious disease bioweapon.

Kate Riga digs into the madness

Kind of verbose isn't she?
Besides... I still cannot find anywhere at all that Tulsi Gabbard has claimed-- "the USA is running BIO-WEAPONS labs in Ukraine".
If toxic crap is somehow released into the area...then criticism will evolve that postulates Russia did it to further magnify this claim.
One thing is for sure...Tony Fauci is in hiatus [hiding for some reason?] __ hide-atus 

she’s the first high-profile Democrat to do so.

High profile RINO Romney seems to be leveling the charge as well.....Seeing him go makes my mouth water.
[I am not a Republican]

[krimster2]

instead of a "no-fly zone"
how about an airlift zone for food aid to fly safely into Ukraine
Russia won't allow, because starvation will be their tool to defeat the Ukrainian people and then blame it on Ukrainian leaders...

[Grumpy]

Slava Ukraini! (Glory to Ukraine!)
Heroyam Slava (Glory to Heroes!)

[Admin]

I don't blame Russia for retaliating on western businesses. Afterall, they (And their people) are having billions frozen or seized around the world by the US and other western countries. I wouldn't expect them to just permit all the western assets within their borders to just be cashed out under these circumstances.  I would expect China to also take note and the consequence being less investment in the US.  Going forward the US is a less safe investment. 

Fathertime!

Yes, for dictators who launch unprovoked attacks on sovereign nations and their citizenry. If another one of those wants to find safe harbor for their ill gotten gains, they should be mightily concerned about investing in the US. And that's a good thing .

[fathertime]

Yes, for dictators who launch unprovoked attacks on sovereign nations and their citizenry.

Green=opinion...not fact. 
Dictators, Putin is president.  Xi is president of China.   The two nations brought up in the post I made. 
Red= Many things can be said, but unprovoked is inaccurate.   There was a reason. 

If another one of those wants to find safe harbor for their ill gotten gains, they should be mightily concerned about investing in the US. And that's a good thing .

Ill be gotten gains....disputable. 

Regarding China, and possibly other nations.  After they witness how assets are seized and frozen, they may well decide it would be smarter to invest elsewhere.  Their 'ill be gotten gains' have been a pillar of investment money in the USA.   Losing future foreign investment would be a sizable blow to our economy. 

We shall see if indeed there is a longer term financial consequence to the US.  It is clear there is going to be a short term and probably long term consequence to Russia.   China is doing nothing but strengthening their position throughout this ordeal. 

Fathertime!   
 

[tfcrew]

Regarding China, and possibly other nations.  After they witness how assets are seized and frozen, they may well decide it would be smarter to invest elsewhere. 

As if there was another USA in an alternative universe?
Besides...doesn't China own Wal-Mart?  Seems like it.

[Admin]

Green=opinion...not fact. 
Dictators, Putin is president.  Xi is president of China.   The two nations brought up in the post I made. 
1. Red= Many things can be said, but unprovoked is inaccurate.   There was a reason.
Ill be gotten gains....disputable. 

Regarding China, and possibly other nations.  After they witness how assets are seized and frozen, they 2. may well decide it would be smarter to invest elsewhere.  Their 'ill be gotten gains' have been a pillar of investment money in the USA.   Losing future foreign investment would be a sizable blow to our economy. 

We shall see if indeed there is a longer term financial consequence to the US.  It is clear there is going to be a short term and probably long term consequence to Russia.   China is doing nothing but strengthening their position throughout this ordeal. 

Fathertime!

1. A pretext is not the same as a reason. There was no legitimate reason as evidenced by world reaction. There was no provocation outside pretext.


2. Just as stated earlier, a dictator (or any honorific) who is considering investing their funds, ill-gotten or otherwise, into the US while at the same time planning to invade another sovereign country, would be wise to look elsewhere. That is quite intentional.

[Admin]

Green=opinion...not fact. 
Dictators, Putin is president.  Xi is president of China.   The two nations brought up in the post I made. 
Red= Many things can be said, but unprovoked is inaccurate.   There was a reason. 
Ill be gotten gains....disputable. 

Regarding China, and possibly other nations.  After they witness how assets are seized and frozen, they may well decide it would be smarter to invest elsewhere.  Their 'ill be gotten gains' have been a pillar of investment money in the USA.   Losing future foreign investment would be a sizable blow to our economy. 

We shall see if indeed there is a longer term financial consequence to the US.  It is clear there is going to be a short term and probably long term consequence to Russia.  China is doing nothing but strengthening their position throughout this ordeal.

Fathertime!

Yeah, the Yuan is doing really well. [/sarcasm]

[Chelseaboy]

I am certain that the pending amount of mass death in Ukraine is going to show something much worse than "property rights" being abridged
see THIS for EXACTLY what it is on the horizon, the worst humaitarian nightmare in Europe since 1945
worse than Bosnia, Croatia, Serbia, Kosovo, etc....
ethnic cleansing of Ukrainians in Ukraine
when was the last time this happened, and what was it called?
this is 2.0!!!

This is my fear too....it's happening in Mariupol already.

[fathertime]

Yeah, the Yuan is doing really well. [/sarcasm]

The Yuan isn't doing bad at all. 

Their stock market is having a bad day at the moment, because investors are concerned China is going to provide aid to Russia.  If aid is provided the US is threatening to 'Sanction' China.  If the US actually sanctions China, there will be further consequences from China to the US.  If they were sanctioned enough, China could find it in their interests to actually invade Taiwan as they would already be in a financial war.   

Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

1. A pretext is not the same as a reason. There was no legitimate reason as evidenced by world reaction. There was no provocation outside pretext.

Despite US arm twisting which has coerced some nations, many non western nations aren't reacting very much.  Nations are mostly acting in self interest.  The Western block, use their influence as a lever for some non western nations, while Russia tries to do the same. 
Apparently Russia has drawn a red line with Ukraine, and from their view that was reason enough to do whatever is necessary to keep the region in their orbit, and out of the Wests orbit.

2. Just as stated earlier, a dictator (or any honorific) who is considering investing their funds, ill-gotten or otherwise, into the US while at the same time planning to invade another sovereign country, would be wise to look elsewhere. That is quite intentional.

The US doesn't adhere to a universal moral reason.
It is only the case if the nation to be invaded is a nation that it is in our interests to care about. 
Unfortunately for the US, it would be wise for nations to look elsewhere for investment because sanctions are used liberally and sanctions aren't working too well.   If sanctions don't work, then what.....

Fathertime!   

[Jumper1]

The Yuan isn't doing bad at all. 

Their stock market is having a bad day at the moment, because investors are concerned China is going to provide aid to Russia.  If aid is provided the US is threatening to 'Sanction' China.  If the US actually sanctions China, there will be further consequences from China to the US.  If they were sanctioned enough, China could find it in their interests to actually invade Taiwan as they would already be in a financial war.   

Fathertime!

And if Taiwan is held by china?

As far as China not investing here ,good.
I'm tried of watching our country bought up by foreign entities on the funds we pay them for products/imports.

If you buy more than you produce,  it's a transfer of your  country's/ citizens weath,
They have been using our wealth transfer to buy the
United states.

We rely on tech industry, to.semi balance this, but becoming a one trick pony was always foolish in the extreme.

 

Covid gave us a  a small taste of this foolishness,but it's the end game if you keep exporting more dollars than the tangible items your country produces.

In the end there is nothing we need from.China that cant be manufactured here.
Why would we want to transfer wealth?


Obviuosly trade can be positive for both countries ,but an imbalance in who is actually benefiting
has needed a reset for some time.

[fathertime]

As far as China not investing here ,good.
I'm tried of watching our country bought up by foreign entities on the funds we pay them for products/imports.

If you buy more than you produce,  it's a transfer of your  country's/ citizens weath,
They have been using our wealth transfer to buy the
United states.

We rely on tech industry, to.semi balance this, but becoming a one trick pony was always foolish in the extreme.

 

Covid gave us a  a small taste of this foolishness,but it's the end game if you keep exporting more dollars than the tangible items your country produces.

In the end there is nothing we need from.China that cant be manufactured here.
Why would we want to transfer wealth?


Obviuosly trade can be positive for both countries ,but an imbalance in who is actually benefiting
has needed a reset for some time.

These are some interesting points!   

China and the Chinese are indeed buying a lot here, as are other nation's peoples.  A consequence (If we want to call it that) of them no longer buying is a large decrease in the nation's wealth.   It is great that the Chinese are paying property tax here on millions and billions of dollars of real estate for example.  It transfers wealth back to us!  We buy their product and get some money back through taxes and tourism. 

Asset prices are up enormously at the moment, that helps drive the consumer economy.  A decrease in values can cascade throughout the economy in a bad way.    I'm no economist, so this is merely some factors.  I think a loss of international demand in our markets would be an overall negative.

I'm not so sure we can actually rustle up the workforce to produce our own products at this point.  We would probably need to import labor, and you know how much some conservatives like seeing new immigrants from south of the border! 

Fathertime!   

[Chelseaboy]

There are currently 6.27 million unemployed in the USA..there's your needed workforce.

[ML]

Was China Betting on Russian Defeat All Along?

http://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/was-china-betting-on-russian-defeat-all-along/

[fathertime]

There are currently 6.27 million unemployed in the USA..there's your needed workforce.

11.2 million job openings in the USA as of January 2022.

Fathertime! 

[krimster2]

Gas war…

check out the tremendous gains that the USA and Canada have made in creating LNG export terminals…

Canada


13 West Coast (British Columbia) Export Terminals
Kitimat LNG
20 Years
10 Mtpa - 1.3 Bcf/d
$15
LNG Canada
40 Years
26 Mtpa – 3.5 Bcf/d
$25-$40
Cedar LNG Project
25 Years
6.4 Mtpa – 0.8 Bcf/d
 
Orca LNG
25 Years
24 Mtpa – 3.2 Bcf/d
 
New Times Energy
25 Years
12 Mtpa – 1.6 Bcf/d
 
Kitsault Energy Project
20 Years
20 Mtpa – 2.7 Bcf/d
 
Stewart LNG Export Project
25 Years
30 Mtpa – 4.0 Bcf/d
 
Triton LNG (On Hold)
25 Years
2.3 Mtpa – 0.3 Bcf/d
 
Woodfibre LNG
25 Years
2.1 Mtpa – 0.3 Bcf/d
$1.6
WesPac LNG Marine Terminal
25 Years
3 Mtpa – 0.6 Bcf/d
 
Discovery LNG
25 Years
20 Mtpa – 2.6 Bcf/d
 
Steelhead LNG: Kwispaa LNG
25 Years
30 Mtpa – 4.3 Bcf/d
$30
Watson Island
 
 
 
5 East Coast Export Terminals
Goldboro LNG
(Nova Scotia)
20 Years
10 Mtpa – 1.4 Bcf/d
$8.3
Bear Head LNG
(Nova Scotia)
25 Years
12 Mtpa – 1.6 Bcf/d
$2-$8
A C LNG
(Nova Scotia)
25 Years
15 Mtpa – 2.1 Bcf/d
$3
Energie Saguenay (Quebec)
25 Years
11 Mtpa – 1.6 Bcf/d
$7
Stolt LNGaz (Quebec)
25 Years
0.5 Mtpa – 0.7 Bcf/d
$0.6
Total 
216 Mtpa – 29 Bcf/d
 

The image below shows USAs equally rising potential to replace European Russian gas imports with American/Canadian LNG!!!

a huge shift in economic power for USA and Canada (and Australia!) and HUGE CATASTROPHIC LOSS to Russia
is this part of what the war is REALLY about for Russia, taking ALL of Ukraine's Black Sea Coast, which would eliminate Ukraine as a destination LNG terminal
and would make life more difficult for Romania and Bulgaria to operate LNG terminals without Russian interference
which would add to shipping insurance costs making it more expensive when competing vis-a-vis GazProm

[ML]

Gas war… HUGE CATASTROPHIC LOSS to Russia
is this part of what the war is REALLY about for Russia, taking ALL of Ukraine's Black Sea Coast, which would eliminate Ukraine as a destination LNG terminal and would make life more difficult for Romania and Bulgaria to operate LNG terminals without Russian interference
which would add to shipping insurance costs making it more expensive when competing vis-a-vis GazProm

So you are saying the war is about money ?

Have never heard of such a thing !!

[ML]

HOW WILL WE REGARD THE RUSSIAN INVASION OF UKAINE IN 20 YEARS ?

IN LIGHT OF THE DEVELOPING CATASTROPHE IN UKRAINE, one wonders if President George W. Bush regrets not having taken a
harder line against Russian President Vladimir Putin when he invaded Georgia in 2008. Or if President Barack Obama wishes he had tried harder to muster the rest of the free world to resist Putin’s annexation of Crimea in 2014.
But that’s the trouble with overused clichés such as “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” They sound surpassingly wise but, in practical terms, they don’t tell us very much about how we should behave now.
Often clichés such as these raise more questions than they answer. If Bush had resisted Putin in 2008 or Obama had in 2014, we do not know whether Russia would be currently residing quietly within its national boundaries or whether we would have already experienced World War
III and would now be facing World War IV, the one that Einstein supposedly said would be “fought with sticks and stones.”
In fact, the best that the cliché might do for us now is to remind us that in 10 or 20 years we may look back on 2022 and wonder why we didn’t act more decisively to prevent a ruthless autocrat from brutally destroying a country with nascent inclinations toward democracy, the rule of law and the free world.
Of course, it’s not as if we’re doing nothing. The sanctions and the military and humanitarian support are damaging the Russian economy and are helping Ukrainians resist the assault on their country.
But few argue that the sanctions are going to be enough to stop Putin. And while military aid is welcomed by the Ukrainians, it may be only enough to help them prolong —rather than win —the war and drive the casualty toll into the many thousands.
Proxy wars never turn out well for the proxies. When we consider this war in 20 years, what will we wish we had done differently?
We may wish that Bush and Obama had been more resistant in 2008 and 2014.  Trump’s biggest mistake may have been to encourage Putin with a false equivalency between our nation and his. When a commentator pointed out in 2017 that Putin is a killer, Trump replied: “There are a lot of killers. You think our country’s so innocent?”
 And in 20 years will we wish that the Biden administration had made a greater commitment to stopping Putin militarily? My preference is for “soft power” and diplomacy. But it’s a sad fact of history that often only “hard power ” — military force — will stop an autocrat such as Putin.
We must not let our mistakes and failures confuse us about the essential difference between our nation’s commitment to democracy, equality and the rule of law and the brutal totalitarianism currently expressing itself in Ukraine. May we not recognize only 20 years later that it’s a distinction worth fighting for today.
JOHN M. CRISP is an op-ed columnist for Tribune News Service. Email him at jcrispcolumns@gmail.com.

[BC]

HOW WILL WE REGARD THE RUSSIAN INVASION OF UKAINE IN 20 YEARS ?

I believe the invasion will be regarded as inevitable and one of Putin's last desperate throes to maintain power.  Ultimately, the Russian people realized how badly they were duped and insisted on political change.  China gains influence and access to energy and natural resources in the Eastern parts of Russia in compensation for post-war economic support.

[Jumper1]

I believe the invasion will be regarded as inevitable and one of Putin's last desperate throes to maintain power.  Ultimately, the Russian people realized how badly they were duped and insisted on political change.  China gains influence and access to energy and natural resources in the Eastern parts of Russia in compensation for post-war economic support.

Agree that's a likely scenario.

I hope all our relatives survive the transitions

[Jumper1]

Gas war…

check out the tremendous gains that the USA and Canada have made in creating LNG export terminals…

Canada


13 West Coast (British Columbia) Export Terminals
Kitimat LNG
20 Years
10 Mtpa - 1.3 Bcf/d
$15
LNG Canada
40 Years
26 Mtpa – 3.5 Bcf/d
$25-$40
Cedar LNG Project
25 Years
6.4 Mtpa – 0.8 Bcf/d
 
Orca LNG
25 Years
24 Mtpa – 3.2 Bcf/d
 
New Times Energy
25 Years
12 Mtpa – 1.6 Bcf/d
 
Kitsault Energy Project
20 Years
20 Mtpa – 2.7 Bcf/d
 
Stewart LNG Export Project
25 Years
30 Mtpa – 4.0 Bcf/d
 
Triton LNG (On Hold)
25 Years
2.3 Mtpa – 0.3 Bcf/d
 
Woodfibre LNG
25 Years
2.1 Mtpa – 0.3 Bcf/d
$1.6
WesPac LNG Marine Terminal
25 Years
3 Mtpa – 0.6 Bcf/d
 
Discovery LNG
25 Years
20 Mtpa – 2.6 Bcf/d
 
Steelhead LNG: Kwispaa LNG
25 Years
30 Mtpa – 4.3 Bcf/d
$30
Watson Island
 
 
 
5 East Coast Export Terminals
Goldboro LNG
(Nova Scotia)
20 Years
10 Mtpa – 1.4 Bcf/d
$8.3
Bear Head LNG
(Nova Scotia)
25 Years
12 Mtpa – 1.6 Bcf/d
$2-$8
A C LNG
(Nova Scotia)
25 Years
15 Mtpa – 2.1 Bcf/d
$3
Energie Saguenay (Quebec)
25 Years
11 Mtpa – 1.6 Bcf/d
$7
Stolt LNGaz (Quebec)
25 Years
0.5 Mtpa – 0.7 Bcf/d
$0.6
Total 
216 Mtpa – 29 Bcf/d
 

The image below shows USAs equally rising potential to replace European Russian gas imports with American/Canadian LNG!!!

a huge shift in economic power for USA and Canada (and Australia!) and HUGE CATASTROPHIC LOSS to Russia
is this part of what the war is REALLY about for Russia, taking ALL of Ukraine's Black Sea Coast, which would eliminate Ukraine as a destination LNG terminal
and would make life more difficult for Romania and Bulgaria to operate LNG terminals without Russian interference
which would add to shipping insurance costs making it more expensive when competing vis-a-vis GazProm

Thanks for that summary