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Author Topic: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas  (Read 21619 times)

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Offline BillyB

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2015, 09:43:00 PM »
Minsk has an interest in enforcing peace.



Ukraine has an interest in getting it's country back in one piece. Russia has an interest in getting influence back over all Ukraine. Peace isn't going to achieve those goals. Someone has to give and when that happens someone will take. The only reason there's a peace agreement now is because Ukraine's military isn't strong enough to retake their country and Ukraine has to listen to Western nations by signing a peace agreement with the hope they will get help from Western nations in the future when the peace agreement fails. Russia has an interest signing the peace agreement to stop the damage to their economy but both sides primary interest is achieving their goals and nobody believes the peace agreement is going to settle the matter and to get both sides to agree on letting in peacekeepers isn't going to happen.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline Rick4G

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2015, 10:58:08 PM »
lets be clear here,  The UN is a joke.  UN peacekeepers couldn't win a fight against a bunch of primary school kids with rocks.  I only need to point out the former Yugoslavia, Somalia and most of Africa as examples of its ineptness.  the only thing a UN peacekeeper seems capable of accomplishing is raping a 9 year old.  I have no regrets about how many "peacekeepers" we shot in underage brothel raids in the former Yugoslavia during the 90s and early 2000s who came back as KIA to their respective countries, and hidden for years by the likes of slick Willy and the British baffoon.  Fuck the UN.  Its worthless and no one respects it.  A UN peacekeeping mission is nothing more than carte blanche to rape and pilfer from the weak but cannot stand up to any aggressor.  Lets be real here.  Please, any of you, cite an example of where the UN actually accomplished anything real and substantial!

Offline alex330

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2015, 02:45:34 PM »
Yes, send in the peacekeepers....





Offline JayH

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2015, 03:05:43 PM »
Yes, send in the peacekeepers....





Correction

PEACEMAKERS
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Photo Guy

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2015, 05:37:11 PM »
bump

Yes, send in the peacekeepers....





Offline Brasscasing

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2015, 11:01:46 AM »
lets be clear here,  The UN is a joke.  UN peacekeepers couldn't win a fight against a bunch of primary school kids with rocks.  I only need to point out the former Yugoslavia, Somalia and most of Africa as examples of its ineptness.  the only thing a UN peacekeeper seems capable of accomplishing is raping a 9 year old.  I have no regrets about how many "peacekeepers" we shot in underage brothel raids in the former Yugoslavia during the 90s and early 2000s who came back as KIA to their respective countries, and hidden for years by the likes of slick Willy and the British baffoon.  Fuck the UN.  Its worthless and no one respects it.  A UN peacekeeping mission is nothing more than carte blanche to rape and pilfer from the weak but cannot stand up to any aggressor.  Lets be real here.  Please, any of you, cite an example of where the UN actually accomplished anything real and substantial!

Pfft. You are a victim of propaganda perpetrated over the years by those who have a vested interest in twisting or exaggerating said occurrences, either making money from scandal or a personal/national interest in removing and/or vilifying the UN as an organization.

Have criminal incidents occurred? Yes. It's inevitable, you place a rotating multinational force (military and civilian) into a vulnerable populace, sometimes for years/decades and there will be abuses of authority. It not only happened/s with the UN but has happened/s with occupying militaries throughout the ages. 

Investigating these kinds occurrences (both UN and combatant war crimes) and bringing those responsible to justice was part and parcel of my responsibilities while seconded to the UN. In some cases we were successful. In some cases, due to national, contingent, individual national/international laws or lack of same, we were unsuccessful. It was what it was then and I'm sure it's pretty well the same now.

Status Of Forces Agreements have been upgraded over the years to allow those accused of criminal misconduct to be brought to trial if warranted.

Quote
lets be clear here,  The UN is a joke.  UN peacekeepers couldn't win a fight against a bunch of primary school kids with rocks.  I only need to point out the former Yugoslavia, Somalia and most of Africa as examples of its ineptness

Now, you wanted to be clear, alright let's be clear. As I'm most familiar with Canadian involvement with the UN, I'll use those examples, however, make no mistake there have been numerous examples of individual and collective heroism from a litany of other contingents throughout the UN's history. These are but three...

Former Yugoslavia...

The Ghosts of Medak Pocket: The Story of Canada's Secret War

..."In 1993, Canadian peacekeepers in Croatia were plunged into the most significant fighting Canada had seen since the Korean War. Their extraordinary heroism was covered up and forgotten. The ghosts of that battlefield have haunted them ever since.

Canadian peacekeepers in Medak Pocket, Croatia, found no peace to keep in September 1993. They engaged the forces of ethnic cleansing in a deadly firefight and drove them from the area under United Nations protection. The soldiers should have returned home as heroes. Instead, they arrived under a cloud of suspicion and silence.

In Medak Pocket, members of the Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry did exactly the job they were trained — and ordered — to do. When attacked by the Croat army they returned fire and fought back valiantly to protect Serbian civilians and to save the UN mandate in Croatia. Then they confronted the horrors of the offensive’s aftermath — the annihilation by the Croat army of Serbian villages. The Canadians searched for survivors. There were none."...

http://www.amazon.ca/The-Ghosts-Medak-Pocket-Canadas/dp/0679312943

Somalia...

Heroes and Bravery

..."Canadian Armed Forces members in Somalia faced much violence and chaos. Peace support forces often faced great danger with even greater acts of valour.

Canada's Sea King helicopter crews took part in reconnaissance and intelligence-gathering activities, frequently coming under fire while doing so. They performed many medical evacuations (being dubbed "the body snatchers" by the American forces who were also operating in the area) and performed airborne transport of cargo and personnel from the HMCS Preserver off the coast.

Canadian soldiers came under fire several times in Somalia. On June 18, 1993, Warrant Officer Roch Lanteigne risked his life supplying ammunition to members of his platoon who were defending the new harbour facilities in Mogadishu, the country's capital. Under fire, he went from bunker to bunker three times to deliver ammunition to his platoon, only returning to safety when all the soldiers were re-supplied.

Naval Lieutenant Heather MacKinnon did much to help the people of Somalia during the UN operations there. She operated a medical clinic and worked in hospitals and orphanages to help the victims of war and famine in Mogadishu, despite the continual risks of working in a war zone."...

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembrance/history/canadian-armed-forces/somalia

Rwanda...

PEACEMAKER HERO:

ROMEO ALAIN DALLAIRE

..."Dallaire was warned that the Belgian soldiers were to be killed, and the Belgian government removed their troops and evacuated the Europeans.

Dallaire requested that the UN send 2,000 more soldiers to help end the killings that had only just begun. After many days of speculation, the UN resolved not to send those soldiers, but to withdraw enough men to leave Dallaire with the tiny force of 260 men.

After the removal of the Belgian soldiers, Dallaire focused on taking the 260 men left to him and setting up "safe areas" to protect the Tutsis and Hutu moderates from the Hutu extremists. Dallaire was not allowed to fight, he was told to observe and report, as thousands were slaughtered around him. By creating these safe areas, Dallaire saved over 200,000 Tutsis and Hutu moderates alike.

After many weeks, deaths and press accounts, the UN resolved to launch UNAMIR II, and sent in 5,500 soldiers. UNAMIR II stormed Kigali, a major area held by the Hutu extremists, and the genocide was brought to an end, after the Rwandan Patriotic Force gained control on the 18th of July in 1994. By this time, there were between 800,000 and 1,171,000 Tutsis and Hutus dead.'...

http://myhero.com/hero.asp?hero=R_Dallaire_PCVS_CA_2008

Quote
I have no regrets about how many "peacekeepers" we shot in underage brothel raids in the former Yugoslavia during the 90s and early 2000s who came back as KIA to their respective countries, and hidden for years by the likes of slick Willy and the British baffoon.

Bullsh*t. Although there were accusations of sexual misconduct in all four sectors. Some of which I'm sure were substantiated, these accusations became a cause celebe for the Human Rights organizations operating in the area at the time whether they were substantiated or not which received far more publicity than the actual efforts to eradicate the criminal activities of the criminal elements (national and international) involved.

No peacekeepers were ever shot in underage brothels. However, there were Croats, Bosnian and Serbs combatents shot/arrested during the Rape House raids by UN personel. Two completely different situations...

Rape during the Bosnian War

..."During the Bosnian War, and the Bosnian genocide, the violence assumed a gender-targeted form through the use of rape. While men from all ethnic groups committed rape, the great majority of rapes were perpetrated by Bosnian Serb forces of the Army of the Republika Srpska (VRS) and Serb paramilitary units, who used genocidal rape as an instrument of terror as part of their programme of ethnic cleansing.[1][2][3] Estimates of the total number of women raped during the war range from 12,000 to 50,000.[4][5]

The International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) declared that "systematic rape", and "sexual enslavement" in time of war was a crime against humanity, second only to the war crime of genocide. Although the ICTY did not treat the mass rapes as genocide, many have concluded from the organized, and systematic nature of the mass rapes of the female Bosniak (Bosnian Muslim) population, that these rapes were a part of a larger campaign of genocide,[6][7][8] and that the VRS were carrying out a policy of genocidal rape against the Bosnian Muslim ethnic group.[9]

The trial of VRS member Dragoljub Kunarac was the first time in any national or international jurisprudence that a person was convicted of using rape as a weapon of war. The widespread media coverage of the atrocities by Serbian paramilitary and military forces against Bosniak women and children, drew international condemnation of the Serbian forces"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_Bosnian_War

Quote
 
 Fuck the UN.  Its worthless and no one respects it.  A UN peacekeeping mission is nothing more than carte blanche to rape and pilfer from the weak but cannot stand up to any aggressor.  Lets be real here.  Please, any of you, cite an example of where the UN actually accomplished anything real and substantial!

I don't know if you're some wackadoodle who's got a personal bone to pick with the UN, maybe for being rejected by them for a job or funds (apparently you "operate a charity in Ukraine and help young adults pursue business opportunities in various fields."), possibly they're on your case in Ukraine?

Or maybe you're just one of those people who's really susceptible to hyperbole and fictionalized/biased accounts of information presented to advance a certain viewpoint, who knows?. One thing is for sure, you've never served in uniform or have any experience serving with the UN or you wouldn't be spouting nonsense like you've done above.

So that begs the question what have you done? What gives you the experience to make such comments?

Further, as an aside, you've posted you own a VIP transportation business...

..." I have a VIP transportation business and have probably met at least a couple hundred guys coming here looking for love usually without success."...

I don't know how that effects your forum status making you a commercial member or not, however, for myself, I'd sure like to know the name of that business to be sure to avoid giving you any business if/when I was to travel to Ukraine, thanks.

Brass
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 12:25:12 PM by AnonMod »
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Offline PBRstreetg

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2015, 12:57:38 PM »
That's a dragon rocket I was trained on them 11BC2 in the United States Army. You could flip a tank over at 1000 meters. The Warthog at around a mile away made sure we just arrived to the party with the 30 mike mike. I've seen those things fly with one wing.

Point being regardless of the polished pictures the UN can do what it takes, the USA will also do whatever uncle Sam needs. Props to SashaCat for keeping it real.
Разрушить всегда легче, чем построить. Обидеть проще,чем простить. И врать всегда удобней , чем поверить. А оттолкнуть намного проще, чем любить

Online 2tallbill

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2015, 01:50:37 PM »
UN can do what it takes, 

The UN can't do anything in Ukraine since Russia would simply veto it.
FSUW are not for entry level daters
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Offline PBRstreetg

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2015, 02:13:18 PM »
at risk of getting persecuted by my BY girlfriend I'm gonna say:
First off Ukraine is not my country, but I have friends from there so it matters and it's close.
Nobody around the States ever said UA is worth fighting for and so it's none
of my business actually. Some of my very close friends are involved with fsuw
from there. I don't know what to do and I also am not in a position to do shit
about it. I care but this is not my fight. Damn.
Разрушить всегда легче, чем построить. Обидеть проще,чем простить. И врать всегда удобней , чем поверить. А оттолкнуть намного проще, чем любить

Offline Boethius

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2015, 02:20:27 PM »
You are likely correct, however, the U.S. was instrumental in pressuring Ukraine to give up its nuclear arsenal.  So, there is a moral obligation to Ukraine now, I believe.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline PBRstreetg

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2015, 02:36:29 PM »
Do you think a military response is necessary at this point? That's a redundant question of course ma'am.
Violence and killing is the only answer huh? This is the solution I guess, I'm not a politician but somebody needs to step up and make somebody listen already. It's easy but you know that's not the way it's gonna go down. Too bad.
Разрушить всегда легче, чем построить. Обидеть проще,чем простить. И врать всегда удобней , чем поверить. А оттолкнуть намного проще, чем любить

Offline alex330

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2015, 05:38:36 PM »
Difficult situation and one that does not appear to be solved peacefully by those currently in power. Like PBR says it is not my country and the reality is that it is probably not our war. Maybe some accomplished Ukrainian hackers could "steal" some of our military tech that helps turn the tide?

Offline Darth_Budda

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2015, 05:38:45 PM »
I do not think the war can be won by Guns.. on either side...

It is now a  Transnistria sitution..

Give it a read.. History tends to repeat it's self..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria_War

We need a government of action to fight for working families!
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Offline Darth_Budda

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2015, 05:40:18 PM »
But I do think..

The War will flare up again soon..

Reports of Government forces moving in Heavy weapons..
We need a government of action to fight for working families!
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2015, 06:51:59 PM »
Do you think a military response is necessary at this point? That's a redundant question of course ma'am.
Violence and killing is the only answer huh? This is the solution I guess, I'm not a politician but somebody needs to step up and make somebody listen already. It's easy but you know that's not the way it's gonna go down. Too bad.


Well, it's unpopular to say this on this forum, but part of this is because those who now hold power grabbed that power because their ill gotten fortunes were being squeezed by the Yanukovych regime.  Yes, Yanukovych was corrupt, however, his regime made a lot of the crooks who are currently in power uncomfortable.  The fact is, despite so called lustration, every criminal who was under investigation previously is now scot-free.  Tymoshenko.  Yushchenko.  Yushchenko's wife (who raised millions for a children's hospital that was never built).  Who are they investigating?  Not members of their own parties, but rather, those of the Party of Regions. 

A relative (through marriage) who had fled to Kazakhstan, after stealing millions, is now back in Kyiv, and has no fear of arrest.  So what does this tell you?

Although Russia fomented much of this discord for their own political and, presumably, geostrategic purposes, a lot of this war is about seizing wealth, or preserving what has been seized.  And most of those players aren't dying and don't care how long the war goes on, or the results of diplomacy.

In 2011, my better half told me that he hoped "it will not turn to bloodshed", but he fully expected events in Ukraine would lead to internal strife, possibly civil war.  He said this was because factions were fighting for control of various parts of Ukraine, just as the Hetman had done in the past.  It's not going to change unless Kyiv agrees that the current criminals running Donbas have full rein there.  Or they bomb the area to the stone age.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 06:54:21 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline BillyB

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2015, 07:14:01 PM »
I do not think the war can be won by Guns.. on either side...



Guns are involved in this conflict and if one side lays down their guns, the other will win. As of now, Putin shows no sign of backing out of Ukraine although we're applying sanctions or West promoting peace during Minsk talks. The West wants us to believe sanctions don't work in Cuba and Iran but think it's going to work in Russia?  Putin is more likely than the West to make sure the use of guns is always in his favor and I'll predict he will win in Ukraine unless the West changes their strategy.


the U.S. was instrumental in pressuring Ukraine to give up its nuclear arsenal.  So, there is a moral obligation to Ukraine now, I believe.



Slick Willy(Clinton) made solid concrete promises to Ukraine like he did to his wife on their wedding day. Obama, like many Americans, don't feel the promise is worth much enforcement if any due to the harm that may be inflicted on us. If Ukraine, during hard times, sold those nukes to shady groups or countries like Iran, the nukes may have been used to cause the death of millions in major Western cities. Ukraine made themselves vulnerable to keep us in the West safe in exchange for protection. It's easy to meet our moral obligation to Ukraine in times of peace. It's times like this that separate the men from the mice.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline fathertime

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2015, 08:07:30 PM »
Difficult situation and one that does not appear to be solved peacefully by those currently in power. Like PBR says it is not my country and the reality is that it is probably not our war. Maybe some accomplished Ukrainian hackers could "steal" some of our military tech that helps turn the tide?


Of course then it would be ok for accomplished hackers in Iran, Syria, or whomever to 'steal' Chinese (American) or Russian military tech.


Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Belvis

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2015, 04:18:24 AM »

Well, it's unpopular to say this on this forum, but part of this is because those who now hold power grabbed that power because their ill gotten fortunes were being squeezed by the Yanukovych regime.  Yes, Yanukovych was corrupt, however, his regime made a lot of the crooks who are currently in power uncomfortable.  The fact is, despite so called lustration, every criminal who was under investigation previously is now scot-free.  Tymoshenko.  Yushchenko.  Yushchenko's wife (who raised millions for a children's hospital that was never built).  Who are they investigating?  Not members of their own parties, but rather, those of the Party of Regions. 

A relative (through marriage) who had fled to Kazakhstan, after stealing millions, is now back in Kyiv, and has no fear of arrest.  So what does this tell you?

Although Russia fomented much of this discord for their own political and, presumably, geostrategic purposes, a lot of this war is about seizing wealth, or preserving what has been seized.  And most of those players aren't dying and don't care how long the war goes on, or the results of diplomacy.

In 2011, my better half told me that he hoped "it will not turn to bloodshed", but he fully expected events in Ukraine would lead to internal strife, possibly civil war.  He said this was because factions were fighting for control of various parts of Ukraine, just as the Hetman had done in the past.  It's not going to change unless Kyiv agrees that the current criminals running Donbas have full rein there.  Or they bomb the area to the stone age.
Well said.  I would only dispute the last words. Kiev has no power to bomb Donbass to the stone age. Just because Russia will not allow, and Putin has clearly warned about. However Kiev may try to bring Donbass to the stone age through economic blockade, at least some Ukrainian patriots made public such sentiments toward the rebel republics. Needless to say the blockade will be the politically acceptable way to separate Donbass from Ukraine, first step for legalization of results of the civil war.

How Donbass looks at Ukraine:


Offline Boethius

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2015, 08:06:58 AM »
Evidence of the lack of intellect among the balance of those in Donbas.  Hardcore proletarians, more than 2 decades after the collapse of the USSR.


So do you think such people can coexist?
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Photo Guy

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2015, 08:46:42 AM »
While there are oligarchs who are trying
to maintain power, there is also the
Ideological struggle for an improved
political structure that benefits the average
citizen.

Offline Belvis

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #45 on: August 31, 2015, 08:59:54 AM »
Evidence of the lack of intellect among the balance of those in Donbas.  Hardcore proletarians, more than 2 decades after the collapse of the USSR.

So do you think such people can coexist?

Coexist with whom? :)
The lack of intellect among those in power in Ukraine is the common place. I don't think political passion or position affect strongly the availability of intellect. However there is a chance for Donbass, they're only beginning to form the local political elite which can happen to  be more appropriate for state building than in the rest of Ukraine.

Head of DNR Zakharchenko among future political elite, today:

Offline Boethius

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #46 on: August 31, 2015, 09:50:15 AM »
I would disagree with you about the lack of intellect in Kyiv.


You can turn it around, but the majority of those running the DNR/LNR and their followers are typical gopniks.  Zakharchenko is no exception.  Khodakovsky is.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Belvis

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #47 on: August 31, 2015, 10:00:21 AM »
You can turn it around, but the majority of those running the DNR/LNR and their followers are typical gopniks.  Zakharchenko is no exception.  Khodakovsky is.

I would compare  those running Kiev and DNR/LNR as swindlers vs bandits.  We'll see in coming years who are better.

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #48 on: August 31, 2015, 10:04:17 AM »
You may be right, although the finance minister is not a swindler. 


I think Kyiv does have some good Rada members.  The issue will be whether they can assert enough pressure to effect real change.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #49 on: August 31, 2015, 10:27:28 AM »
I would disagree with both of you too a certain extent. Neither Crimea or Donbas are masters of their own fate.

Putin will keep both enclaves in diplomatic and economic limbo for 6 or so years then quietly pull an Ossetia and Abkhazia.

These treaties have pretty well gone under the radar in the west but Putin got what he wanted...

Russia signs integration deal with South Ossetia

...Russia has extended its control over its southern “backyard” by signing a treaty with South Ossetia, the chunk of pro-Kremlin territory that broke away from Georgia in 2008.

The tiny enclave, which has a population of just 50,000 and is roughly size of Kent, has existed in diplomatic limbo ever since Russian forces occupied it during Moscow’s brief with Georgia six years ago.

Now, in a move denounced as “provocative” by the West, the Kremlin has signed a new treaty that will all but incorporate South Ossetia into the Russian motherland. A similar treaty was signed last year with nearby Abkhazia, on the Black Sea. It also broke away from Georgia during the 2008 war, during which hundreds were killed and around 200,000 people forced from their homes."...

..."Since the 2008 war South Ossetia, which is landlocked and heavily mountainous, has effectively existed as little more than a garrison state for the Russian military, its economy in near-ruins. Like Abkhazia, it is also heavily dependent on Russian subsidies.

Under the agreement signed in the Kremlin, South Ossetia’s military and economy will to be incorporated into Russia’s. The treaty also promises to make it easier for South Ossetians to get Russian citizenship, and to raise salaries for civil servants and state pensions."...

..."The move is a blow to Georgia, whose largely pro-Western leaders had hoped to entice both enclaves to return to the fold by demonstrating that living standards and personal freedoms were better than in Russia. The treaty means any hopes of reintegration are now much reduced."...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/11484030/Russia-signs-integration-deal-with-South-Ossetia.html

This is the Kremlin game plan for Donbas and Crimea as well. Discussing who's smarter and more honest than whom doesn't really factor. When the time comes it'll be Putin's puppets running the show anyways.

Brass

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