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Author Topic: Learning basic Russian  (Read 12218 times)

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Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2014, 09:40:03 AM »
I did a bit of work before now with one of the free language exchange systems, where you offer English for their Russian. 
That approach is pretty much useless, it was the same adopted by our Arabic teacher (after explaining us the alphabet) and I had to buy myself a grammar to get a glimpse of how that language is structured. Learning the odd sentence is pointless: you might make yourself understood - after a few attempts - but what about understanding a reply to it? Sign language ;D?

A major stumbling block for many (unless they studied Latin) is that Russian is an inflectional language, i.e. the endings of its nouns, adjectives, etc. are modified according to their syntactical role in the sentence, choosing the appropriate one from its 6 declension cases.
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Offline ukthesis

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2014, 10:10:04 AM »

I perfectly understand.  Can you recommend my best steps to learn basic or conversational Russian for going out shopping, stuff like that?

Offline ukthesis

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2014, 10:20:32 AM »
Addressed to krimster2 and anyone else who lived in the same region for a few years.  What did you think of the experience?  I am actually thinking of going over to Moldova, since I got very friendly with a Russian and English speaking lady there and for various reasons, it makes more practical sense for me to join her than for her to come here, at least for the present.  But I know from going there several times already that leaving aside having to learn basic Russian to get by (a few of her friends speak English but often not very well), the place itself (the capital city) is not up to western standards in terms of the accommodation (lots of crumbling tower blocks full of apartments) and the public services generally are nowhere near our western standards.  The folks I meet are all great though, which in some sense makes up for the poor infrastructure.  I have decided to give it a go over there, but what do posters with experience of living in the east think I should look for and do to make my stay over there more comfortable?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2014, 10:22:21 AM by ukthesis »

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2014, 10:45:39 AM »
I perfectly understand. Can you recommend my best steps to learn basic or conversational Russian for going out shopping, stuff like that?
I'm afraid I cannot suggest any 'easy' approach for learning to express yourself in a language so unlike your own - one that could work if you were learning, say, German or Dutch or another Germanic language.

As I said, even when shopping you might be stumped by many things not covered in a 'Russian in 24 hours' approach :-\.

Apart from essentials such as learning basics like the alphabet and some grammar, I could suggest getting hold of some Russian books on subjects that interest you, be they on butterflies or Medieval armour or whatever ;), which has some advantages:

- Topic interest may prod you on in trying to understand what is written
- Topic familiarity may suggest likely word translations, without incessant recourse to a dictionary

Another aspect concerns grasping what is said in Russian, i.e. its sounds (phonetics). You could start with some Russian films or similar with dialogue subtitles, be they on CDs or from Youtube.

It'd be helpful if you had a musical ear, it's difficult to perceive/reproduce unfamiliar sounds that you cannot distinguish in the first place.
 
« Last Edit: November 25, 2014, 10:50:07 AM by SANDRO43 »
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Offline ukthesis

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2014, 11:07:44 AM »
I suppose I think most of all that I can't remember the words and phrases easily.  I use the "trick" of trying to link them to English words I do know, but that's not always possible.  Any tips on how to more easily remember Russian?

The other point that most people will understand when they go online.  There are so MANY choices about how to learn Russian.  There are a number of YouTube videos for a start.  Then go with the free courses on the web.  Then look at paid tutors to teach you.  Then those free language exchanges are online.  How they approach this probably differs to a degree.

Where to start?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2014, 11:11:09 AM by ukthesis »

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2014, 11:37:05 AM »
I suppose I think most of all that I can't remember the words and phrases easily. I use the "trick" of trying to link them to English words I do know, but that's not always possible.
I don't think that "trick" may be much productive - switching between languages is somewhat like switching stations on your radio, if you tune it poorly you'll get a garbled transmission.
Quote
Any tips on how to more easily remember Russian?
A phrase is semantic entity, i.e. if you tie only pieces of it, you lose its overall meaning, therefore it must be treated as a whole 'unit'. Maybe you could try imagining yourself in various situations where you could use it, and play them mentally.
Quote
The other point that most people will understand when they go online. There are so MANY choices about how to learn Russian. There are a number of YouTube videos for a start.  Then go with the free courses on the web. Then look at paid tutors to teach you. Then those free language exchanges are online.  How they approach this probably differs to a degree. Where to start?
Well, pick one from the simplest, and see if it is productive for you, then discard it if not and try another one ;).

I forgot an important question: do you know any OTHER foreign language?
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Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2014, 05:10:50 PM »
I forgot an important question: do you know any OTHER foreign language?

That's actually a very good point.  Somewhere back in the early days of my membership here I pointed out the value of how learning a foreign language opened my eyes as to how English itself evolved.  I learnt Latin and French at school and, by the time I travelled around Europe, I spoke French to a pretty high standard (unfortunately that seems long, long ago in a galaxy far, far, away, and my level has probably slipped back to about 4 or 5/10 due to lack of use - exactly the point Sandro made upthread).  I was quite sure that I could have learnt other languages as well, which was why it didn't faze me when I started to learn Russian years later.

Although I haven't progressed past the basics, due in part to not really bothering because of travelling there only a couple of times, I'm quite sure that I would pick up more if I had a good reason to.  You, Ukthesis, most definitely have that good reason, so get out of that indecisive fog and make up your mind how you want to start up the next hill of knowledge.  If you did get taught another language at school, even if it was nearly 50 years ago, I hope that the way you learnt then may trigger some sort of response now.

Good luck!  :thumbsup:

Offline jj

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2014, 06:41:22 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF2F566484C119BF4
 
Over 120 lessons of this basic high school course.(free)  Very helpful for ol guy like me when starting out.  The book, workbook that go with this can be bought on used book sites on line.  The textbook is "Russian for Everybody"  .  The website "Russian World" - Dallas school system .  You can by alot of language books on the cheap if you search the used book sites or ebay.  All the other sources mentioned by others are excellent too.

Offline lmshima57

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2014, 11:46:38 PM »
The iPhone application of which I spoke is Google Translate.
I thought Rosetta Stone was extremely overrated, but I
have the 3 part version.  There is no translation. I think
that I may benefit from reviewing the program after
reading several resources.  Pimsleur is better for conversation.
It is strictly audio except for the reading lists that can be
downloaded.

As far as a tutor, I arranged to take lessons with my
interpreter in Kharkov.  She charged only $15 per hour
and we communicated via Skype.  The seven hour time
difference was a slight problem and sometimes there
was a problem with the Skype connection.  I usually
met with her once a week, but my work made it difficult
to continue.  Retrospectively, I would consider what things
that I would like to say and learn the Russian equivalent.

I am fortunate to know several Russian women who have
been gracious enough to help me with my Russian.  They
have helped me learn new expressions and perfect my
pronunciation.  I have studied several languages and I
still think that Russian remains the most difficult language
for me to learn.

Offline ukthesis

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2014, 03:10:13 AM »
Thanks again all you guys.  I thought when I first started this thread there would be no interest, but I was wrong, and very welcome it is.  I don't know any other language than English, and I was not good at the French they tried to teach us at school.  So I never had an aptitude or interest for learning languages then, in my teens.  I don't remember any of the lessons I took at that time.  In my present situation, however, I know that I have to learn some Russian in order to get by, so there is a more powerful reason to learn it now.

I'll give you a quick rundown of my experience.  I don't have much time for learning basic Russian, and no doubt people with the time can learn it faster.

But I started off this year (when I first decided to do this) with a few of those free language exchange sites.  As I explained, they were a bit useful (learning a bit of Russian is better than learning no Russian, I assume) but they were limited.

On my trip to Moldova last, I had two Russian lessons with a lady living there who teaches Russian.  She speaks hardly any English, which was not exactly a good start, but her rates were good.  (Like most prices for services in the east, you can buy more with your dollar or UK pound notes.)

But her lessons both confused and annoyed me.  Basically, she sat me in front on a Russian translation book she had.  Then she showed me the written Russian in the book for a word or phrase.  Then she spoke it out, to get the pronunciation right.  Then I had to repeat.  A little later, she showed me, in the same book, the English meaning of it.

But I found there was simply far too much new information being thrown at me at once.  The lessons were 90 minutes each and it felt like they were going on forever.  I couldn't wait for them to end. 

She somehow expected me, who already has problems remembering this stuff, repeating this information (the Russian words, how they are spoken, and what they mean in English) up to 20 minutes after I'd first see it.  I got frustrated and I don't think she was overly impressed, but who knows? At any rate, I have no plans to take more of these lessons from her in Moldova next time. Very stressful an encounter.

So I'm trying to find the best other approach for me, after experiencing the limitations of both these. 

I should add that a few people have claimed they learned basic Russian by living in the country for 6 or 9 months.  This I still find hard to believe since what my Russian friends say to each other is nearly (excepting a few words they told me about) as gibberish as it was the first time I heard it and I've been over there some time this year. 

I think what they really mean is that once you KNOW basic Russian, it then helps to go to a Russian speaking place to learn more.  That makes a lot more sense. Those who also advise me to read Russian papers or watch Russian films similarly don't understand that if you don't even know the basic words, you will VERY quickly give up that way of "learning" the language.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 03:48:04 AM by ukthesis »

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2014, 03:26:46 AM »
Sandro is absolutely correct that Russian is a very music language. I had two years of Russian in a US college and arrived in Russia to learn that I had gained very little of value. My prior time with Pimsleur CDs turned out to be more useful.

Absolutely essential is the ability to write, read, and speak the Cyrillic alphabet. There is no other foundation so valuable. I wrote it forward and then backward, for ten minutes each morning and then ten minutes each evening for several months. That alone helped me survive those early years, and has allowed me to make significant progress over the years. 

Next, I tackled numbers. I forced myself to learn the numbers from 1-10, then 10 to 100, then 100 to 1,000. After a month of doing that twice daily I began to attach numbers to everyday events. I started using only Russian to give, or take, telephone numbers. Every price and budget amount had the appropriate Russian number. It was everyday immersion. Higher numbers began to come more easily after awhile.

I don't remember if days/months/seasons or if learning the colours was next, but I tackled both of those. Invariably, simple phrases were being added just from study materials and the Pimsleur CDs.

Then I added the genders to colours. Soon I was conversant in knowing that the term for red is красный, but a red book is a красная book due to the feminine gender. The dictionary form has one ending for a masculine noun, another for feminine nouns and another ending for neuter nouns. I made myself learn the noun genders using colours and it was surprising how other noun endings fell into place because for the most part the language is very logical. Patterns exist and once you stumble onto the patterns, the light bulbs begin to flash.

Videos are good. Even if you don't understand, you're hearing how "things" are spoken and that is how you learned your first language as a baby. You learned it by listening to things you didn't understand.

Bits and pieces accumulated and eventually those around me were pleasantly surprised at how much of a conversation I understood without it having to be translated. Reading came first, listening and understanding was second, and for me the speaking is the hardest so it came last.
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Offline ukthesis

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2014, 03:40:12 AM »
How would you suggest that I start the process of learning Russian?  Which approach or method did you like the most?  And why?

Offline Chicagoguy

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2014, 09:44:25 AM »
When I talked about this with my good Russian friends who live nearby they said -
Why ?. They said it is a difficult language and I don't really, really need it.

But I know one American married to a Russian woman and living in my wife's hometown who does not know Russian language. I think that is bad and disrespectful not only to his wife but to the country he has made his home.

 

Offline Shadow

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2014, 10:37:23 AM »
How would you suggest that I start the process of learning Russian?  Which approach or method did you like the most?  And why?
What the best method is I could not tell, as everyone learns different. However I can suggest you to get access to Russian TV channels. While it may be unintelligible mumbling in the beginning, slowly you will find yourself being able to understand the meaning, making it more easy to actually learn.
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Offline ukthesis

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2014, 11:01:33 AM »
I'm not so sure.  I've been across to a Russian speaking country several times this year, and frankly, what they are saying is every bit as baffling as when I first heard it.  And the locals do not talk slowly just for my benefit.  I think it works best for someone who is familiar with some of the basic Russian to begin with.

Offline sleepycat

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2014, 11:58:40 AM »
However I can suggest you to get access to Russian TV channels. While it may be unintelligible mumbling in the beginning, slowly you will find yourself being able to understand the meaning, making it more easy to actually learn.

Yes by all means watch Russian TV, but be very weary of being brainwashed and being turned into a Putin apologist!

Offline Shadow

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2014, 12:47:58 PM »
Yes by all means watch Russian TV, but be very weary of being brainwashed and being turned into a Putin apologist!
I would no suggest anyone to watch the news until they have a bsic grasp of what is told.
Children's series or synchronized American series might be better.
And for those without brains there is no danger of being brainwashed. Watch all you want.
No it is not a dog. Its really how I look.  ;)

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2014, 01:10:48 PM »
I, and others, listed very helpful links upthread. Start by investigating those resources, then choose the one(s) that fit your learning style.
The Mendeleyev Journal. http://mendeleyevjournal.com Member: Congress of Russian Journalists; ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.RU (Journalist-Russia); ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.UA (Journalist-Ukraine); ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.KZ (Journalist-Kazakhstan); ПОРТАЛ ЖУРНАЛИСТОВ (Portal of RU-UA Journalists); Просто Журналисты ("Just Journalists").

Offline RoboCop

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2014, 04:03:13 PM »
I'm surprised no one has suggested this, but watching Russian movies with English subtitles helps enormously. Although the translation is never 100% accurate, it still gives you a good idea about what the conversation is about and famimliarizes you with the dynamics of the Russian language.

I initially used "The New Penguin Russian Course: A complete course for Begginers," and all the Pimsleur Russian audio courses initially. Even then though I'd only understand bits and pieces of conversations.

Befote initially when my Russian was horrible, I'd always feel like a detached spectator of sorts when travelling around Azerbaijan. Now that it's conversational, I don't feel so much like an outsider looking in.
Married 3 years now, with a 2 year old son. Wife is from Baku, the capital of Azerbaijan.

Offline Nightwish

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2014, 04:18:08 PM »
Hey new guy here, first post so bare with me :)

I just started to try and learn this mumbojumbo language (I am from Sweden, so maybe I should shut up about that  :cluebat: )

Have a smartphone? start with some apps there to learn the alphabet, one I found really helpful was memrise .. its free and it suited me..even though it sometimes confuses the hell out of me..  ;D
Its basically, you see the letter, its pronounced and then it uses like a memory-game to get you to understand it. I think it was excellent beginners choice for learning.

Cheers :)

Multitasking means screwing up several things at once.

Offline AC

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2014, 05:39:13 PM »
Hey new guy here, first post so bare with me :)

I just started to try and learn this mumbojumbo language (I am from Sweden, so maybe I should shut up about that  :cluebat: )

Have a smartphone? start with some apps there to learn the alphabet, one I found really helpful was memrise .. its free and it suited me..even though it sometimes confuses the hell out of me..  ;D
Its basically, you see the letter, its pronounced and then it uses like a memory-game to get you to understand it. I think it was excellent beginners choice for learning.

Cheers :)

 :welcome:  to the forum.  How did you find us?  Why an interest in Russian ladies?  Or are you only interested in the current politics, like some of us?

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2014, 06:59:26 PM »
I'm surprised no one has suggested this, but watching Russian movies with English subtitles helps enormously.
I did ;):

Another aspect concerns grasping what is said in Russian, i.e. its sounds (phonetics). You could start with some Russian films or similar with dialogue subtitles, be they on CDs or from Youtube.
Milan's "Duomo"

Offline Isthmus

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2014, 07:27:33 PM »
I agree with watching subtitled films. Not only do you gain some cultural insights you also develop more of an affinity with the language.

Offline Nightwish

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2014, 01:52:23 AM »
:welcome:  to the forum.  How did you find us?  Why an interest in Russian ladies?  Or are you only interested in the current politics, like some of us?

Thank you, I have been reading here for quite a while..
I met a Ukrainian woman online a while back and went to visit her, now there was no real spark there, but what I found instead was a country filled with beauty.. who in their right mind can pass that up?  :D
So now I'm studying, understanding the country and culture and looking..  Kiev is a two hour flight away so there is not really a problem flying over and meeting with potential subjects.. so now I have been there twice after initial visit with the first lady.

But I realized it would be sooo much easier if I at least could read street signs and know some basic Russian, their English leaves a lot to be desired, hence learning the language  :)
Multitasking means screwing up several things at once.

Offline Shadow

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Re: Learning basic Russian
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2014, 02:56:30 AM »
Thank you, I have been reading here for quite a while..
I met a Ukrainian woman online a while back and went to visit her, now there was no real spark there, but what I found instead was a country filled with beauty.. who in their right mind can pass that up?  :D
So now I'm studying, understanding the country and culture and looking..  Kiev is a two hour flight away so there is not really a problem flying over and meeting with potential subjects.. so now I have been there twice after initial visit with the first lady.

But I realized it would be sooo much easier if I at least could read street signs and know some basic Russian, their English leaves a lot to be desired, hence learning the language  :)
And do not forget that Russia is also just a submarine trip away. ;)
No it is not a dog. Its really how I look.  ;)

 

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