My view of the war

[GQBlues]

irrelevant crap . . . pro-Russia propo . . . Putin  . . . Yanukovich is a hero . . . blah blah insult, insult, insult

This, from the village idiot.  Hey pal, do you think if Mexicans in Texas suddenly claimed they were being discriminated against and forced to speak English, and then Mexico decided to provide them with heavy arms to rape, pillage and plunder -- do you think that the US government would negotiate with them and give them some sort of autonomy and not lock them up for life as terrorists?

You truly are a complete moron. 

Do you also think that Ukrainians living in Russia have a right to demand that the Russian government operate services, etc for them in Ukrainian, and that if they don't Ukraine has a right to send heavy weapons into Russia, and demand NuevoUkraina or some such similar nonsense?

Moron.  *speak* *write* *leave no doubt*

The chihuahua pack arrives. LMAO!

[fathertime]

I do hope Poroshenko represents, and hold if so, what should be a great thing for Ukraine and exactly what that country needs...

"...KIEV, UKRAINE — President Petro Poroshenko on Monday proposed a series of major concessions to end the uprising by pro-Russian rebels in restive eastern Ukraine, offering the separatists a broad amnesty and special self-governance status for territories they occupy.

The proposal also includes protections for the Russian language and would allow the separatist-controlled regions to elect their own judges, create their own police forces and cultivate deeper ties to Russia — while remaining part of Ukraine."

Article here

Thanks for posting the link.  This appears to be something the pro separatists and Russians might accept, if it can pass the Ukrainian parliament passes it.   Regardless it is a step in the right direction as it could create a temporary fragile peace which could grow stronger with some time.    Much to the chagrin of many here, both countries could move forward with a bit of a win.  I'll be curious to hear the reasoning of the people who oppose the proposal.


Fathertime!   

[GQBlues]

Thanks for posting the link.  This appears to be something the pro separatists and Russians might accept, if it can pass the Ukrainian parliament passes it.   Regardless it is a step in the right direction as it could create a temporary fragile peace which could grow stronger with some time.    Much to the chagrin of many here, both countries could move forward with a bit of a win.  I'll be curious to hear the reasoning of the people who oppose the proposal.
 

You should read the State Department press briefings specifically about this. It is quite illuminating on exactly how the US Administration feels about this, or rather, how Ms. Harf feels about this. I was actually thinking of you when i raed some of her response, LOL (the term she used).

But yeah, I agree. I hope this is a major step in the right direction. Ukraine needs all the help it can get from this crisis. Putting a stop to this conflict is a best place to begin.

[AC]

I do hope Poroshenko represents, and hold if so, what should be a great thing for Ukraine and exactly what that country needs...

"...KIEV, UKRAINE — President Petro Poroshenko on Monday proposed a series of major concessions to end the uprising by pro-Russian rebels in restive eastern Ukraine, offering the separatists a broad amnesty and special self-governance status for territories they occupy.

The proposal also includes protections for the Russian language and would allow the separatist-controlled regions to elect their own judges, create their own police forces and cultivate deeper ties to Russia — while remaining part of Ukraine."

Article here

"The first solid indication of how the Nazis would treat occupied territories came in Czechoslovakia, and the auguries were both misleading and ominous. In 1938 Hitler's troops marched into the Czech Sudetenland; it was largely populated by Germans, who welcomed the invaders warmly. In most of the region, a carnival atmosphere prevailed. To greet the occupying troops, whom the Czech forces had been ordered not to resist, huge Nazi flags — smuggled in earlier by NSDAP party agents — sprouted from buildings. Women wept or cheered at the sight of German soldiers, and garlanded them with flowers. One admirer was so carried away by excitement that a bouquet of roses she tossed to the Führer hit him in the face as he drove by into his new domains.

     Behind these festive scenes were a few darker vignettes. A German mob in the town of Cesky Krumlov fired at the backs of retreating Czech soldiers; in other towns shops and homes belonging to Czechs and Jews were vandalized and ransacked; a railroad station clerk was shot dead when he refused to turn his cash over to Sudeten freebooters. In Prague, veterans of the legendary Czech legion were observed weeping. President Eduard Benes despairingly left the capital of truncated Czechoslovakia for a self-imposed exile in England."

In March 1939, German troops entered Bohemia and Moravia, the last two provinces of Czechoslovakia, and Hitler informed the world that "Czechoslovakia has ceased to exist."

http://www.skylighters.org/graden/history.html


Ironically Putin has always also claimed that Ukraine has never existed as a State.

[missAmeno]

Putting a stop to this conflict is a best place to begin.

Do you really believe green grasshoppers in Moldova is 'putting a stop'?

[lordtiberius]

The chihuahua pack arrives. LMAO!

insult, insult, insult

[Boethius]

From the facebook page of Olena Bilozerska, a Kyiv journalist, translated by Jeffrey D. Stephaniuk.  Ms Bilozerska is a volunteer with Pravy Sekhtor.

“I am often told that I should write a book after the war ends. Well, I need to survive the war first. And second, to be honest, I don’t have a clear idea yet about what such a book could possibly be about.We truly live in a parallel universe compared with the life I left behind in Kyiv, complete with its own rhythm of daily life. It seems far too ordinary in its own way to write about it. It becomes so mundane in fact that I have to force myself to find subjects that make interesting photography.


For example, there is graffiti on the doors to our rooms that I pass several times a day. Intellectually, I get the concept that all of this is historic and worth recording. I understand, but lack the emotional motivation.

On the other hand, there really is no time to wait for a better occasion during which to write this hypothetical book. I need to be writing now about what is happening in the country. I do have some time these days, and so I will share a few thoughts while here at base camp. We are on training exercises, and no one really can predict how long we will be in this routine, and especially what will happen next.

It is common knowledge that the Ukrainian people themselves are supplying both the Ukrainian army and the volunteer Ukrainian military formations with much of what they need. I am not referring to the system of taxation that goes toward the armed forces of the country, but rather a very direct support with money and materiel. Individuals provide financial resources, along with a wide array of products and items such as bullet proof vests. Then volunteers offer their vehicles to transport all this outpouring of goodwill from the smallest of Ukrainian villages, often at great physical risk to their own lives.
I would like to give you a glimpse into the subjective experience of receiving this generosity from our point of view, beyond what it means to see the steady stream of supply vehicles coming and going from our bases.

There is a small village along the border of Dnipropetrovsk and Donetsk oblasts. Just as in Kyiv and all throughout the country, you will find many flags flying in this village, as well as blue and yellow painted in prominent locations. Imagine us arriving in town, more like bandits than soldiers because we lack the proper legal status as a recognized military formation. I am armed with a weapon, dressed like a hunter in a uniform sent by Ukrainians in the Diaspora. I wear heavy old boots that I bought eight years ago. (I never had the time get anything else when the vehicle sent for me arrived; so I train in these clumsy things). I would never have dreamt that I would live to see the day when I would be wearing such boots through “hell and high water” and into war. And who would have thought that the winter clothing I bought to get me through the cold months of the Maidan would be used again in a war zone….

So we are in this town, and stop at a store to buy a watch. The clerk is pleasant enough, and by all appearances the owner, with another younger employee. And they recognize me. They don’t associate me with being a journalist, but from seeing me on the internet from videos about the Ukrainian Volunteer Corps. It turns out that people are watching these videos. On another occasion Dmytro Yarosh had been in their store, so they took pictures with him and invited him to come back again. They joke that they forgot to ask him for his business card. We had such a nice conversation with them. Before we left we bought a watch that was worth 140 hryvnia, but they sold it to us for 90. “This is my way of supporting those at the front,” the owner explained. “I won’t regret the loss of money, and besides it would be more important for the soldiers to have socks.”

Then we find the local bazaar, and shop for various little items such as light bulbs and shoe polish. The vendors sell us everything at a big discount. There is an old man standing at the corner. He is in uniform, looking dignified even at his age. He is armed. There are two young men in uniform with him, also carrying weapons. He looks at me, then greets me with a tip of his hat, while the young men salute me. “Who are they?” I ask. “They are our local defense.” The same response comes from those driving vehicles, honking their horns in welcome. Some of the civilian drivers wave at us, eager to show their support. “Good day. I am on your side.” When soldiers from the army pass by we likewise salute each other.

Now of course with all this good there must be a little bad. I need a haircut, as my hair is a mess. I find a small place, which isn’t busy, with three older hair dressers inside. They take one look at my uniform and say (in Russian), “I’m sorry my dear, but we can’t help you, we work by appointment only, and we’re all booked.” It seems more likely to me that someone had warned them not to help us.

I had visions of holding my ground, sitting down in a barber’s chair, placing my handgun on my lap and asking politely, “Kindly cut my hair.” But in the interest of not making a scene, I simply left the shop.

The next place I entered had the appearance of being much more expensive. It was called “Beauty Salon”. The girls who worked there were much younger and more welcoming. They had no problem with me as a customer, and in fact only charged me half the price for my haircut.

That was the common denominator of the day: everywhere we bought what we needed at a discount….And the question heard most often wherever we went: Do you think they will advance this far?” To which we insistently replied, “No they won’t. Not if we can help it.”

The overwhelming majority of people in this little town are Russian speakers. From where they live you can almost see the terrorists in action. So tell me, what are they doing differently, why such a fundamental disparity between life in this town compared with life just a few kilometres to the east? It’s the same country. The main distinction is that here they refused entry to Putin’s armed bandits, while down the road the idiots let them in.

http://www.facebook.com/bilozerska?fref=ts

[Boethius]

This is by Viktor Kaspruk, a well known Ukrainian political analyst, translated by Maria Shecherbinina

Putin’s attempts to ‘Transnitriarize’ Ukraine are in full accordance with his plans to turn the Ukrainian state into the Kremlin’s obedient and docile puppet. However, the pro-Russian orientation of part of the population in the Ukrainian East did not emerge by itself. It is a direct consequence of intentional work of the Soviet regime, which tried its best to turn the Ukrainians into part of the so-called ‘Soviet people.’

However, it cannot be said that the Soviets managed to achieve this selection fully. The representatives of the land of miners fought for independent Ukraine on Petliura’s side. We need only remember the Black Haydamaky regiment, which included Volodymyr Sosiura. Or the modern Ukrainian supporters Vasyl Stus, Ivan, Leonid and Nadiya Svitlychny and Ivan Dziuba.

Another testament to this are the battalions that were formed on Donetsk lands, which heroically (frequently better than others) fought for the liberation of their lands from Moscow mercenaries.

However, Donetsk and Luhansk, like Crimea, have always been a problem for Kyiv, for various reasons. Russia’s current invasion is a result of Stalin’s and Brezhnev’s selection and russification of Ukraine. Mass import of Russians onto Ukrainian territories and the intentional export and dissimilation of Ukrainian all around endless Russia are bearing their poisonous fruit today

After Kuchma came to power, these oblasts became the most criminalized, where those who did not agree with Sovietization of these territories were simply eliminated, and the Kremlin’s policies and the abundance of Russia media created a strong illusion among the population of Donbas and Luhansk oblast that they are once more back to the USSR or, at least, in neighboring Russia.

Essentially, there are enough unsatisfied people in all countries, however only Moscow, with its massive military support, was able to turn part of these unsatisfied peoples (of which, in reality, there are not so many in these regions) into terrorists.The future scholars of the last period during ‘Developed Putinism,’ when examining the history of Putin’s actions under the microscope, will wonder: Why did he ever crawl to Ukraine with his ‘Russian World’? He could have sat quietly in the Kremlin, robbed Russia and told stories on television of how he was working so hard, “chained to the galleys,” for Russia’s good, go to G8 summits and not create any problems for anyone.

The historians will also wonder why Russian elites allowed Putin to invade Ukrainian Crimea, execute the mad idea of a mythical ‘Novorossiya’ at any cost, and provoke the Russian Federation’s fallback into the third world.

However, Putin is not at all worried about the fact that Russia, which exists solely on account of the sale of its energy resources, may pay a very high price for ‘#Crimeaisours’ and ‘Novorossiya.’

Obviously, the putinists have had this big national state ‘Russian idea’ for a very long time, and its presentation under the guise of the ‘Russian world’ became the apotheosis of the campaign which aimed to destroy Ukrainian statehood. . .

Essentially, Ukraine’s problems with Donbas and Luhansk oblast only emerged because there were people living there who, after the fall of the USSR, continued to stubbornly lead the Soviet way of life.

And the striving of part of the population to return back to Soviet yesterday, with surrogate vodka for 3,12 and sausage made of God-only-knows-what for 2,20, was constantly supported by Soviet movies from the 1930-1970’s, which are full of primitive Communist ideology, and contemporary low-rate Russian TV series like Menty (Cops) or Dalnoboyshchiki(Truckers).It is become absolutely obvious that the Party of Regions and its Donetsk leader prepared the springboard for Russian intervention in Ukraine. And had Maidan-2 been delayed by even half a year, Ukraine would have had no chance to protect its sovereignty.

Therefore, after Yanukovich fled Ukraine, Putin decided to hit the most vulnerable part of the Ukrainian society – Donetsk and Luhansk, having provoked a situation that led to a tragedy in this region through his numerous agents on location.

Meanwhile, Donetsk has always been a decoration for those who owned it. Proletariat decorations for a billionaire who got his assets from non-proletariat work. Electoral decorations for the Party of Regions, who pretended that it has over a hundred percent support in Donetsk.

And now Donbas has become a decoration for Russian terrorists. Having turned into a theatrical stage in the hands of the renegades who are using the Ukrainian Near East for their own interests.

Moscow is also waging informational war against Ukraine.  It is no secret that essentially this is a war of emotions. In an informational war, the enemy doesn’t make you bleed out. They make you feel negative emotions: desperation, fear, hatred and disgust.

It is important to the enemy for all these emotions to work against Ukrainians, against their country and against their future. Ideally, the enemy would want for them to spread this mental disease all around their ranks, unwittingly aiding it.

Therefore Ukrainians could afford emotions during times of peace. Now it is important to stop thinking in categories of a peaceful life, as Ukraine is in full-scale war with a nuclear empire.

Whether Ukrainians want this war or not, this nuclear empire does not ask them. And it is impossible to retreat. 23 years after the fall of the USSR, the war for Ukrainian independence began. This means that the economy and the politics of civilian life are in the past. This means that the economy and politics are aimed at victory: the preservation of the independence of the Ukrainian nation.

With his increase of the escalation in Ukraine, Putin is making a choice between two options he finds acceptable: partial control over all of Ukraine or total control over part of Ukraine.

However, he and his closest associates have finally started to realize that their ‘Russian World’ caprice cannot be imposed by them. The majority of Ukrainians will never consent to this.

Therefore Putin, who has been betting on partial control over all of Ukraine, will most likely bet on total control over part of Ukraine. Though he simply doesn’t get the fact that Ukrainians reject both of these options categorically.

However, he is trying to show Ukrainian leaders by all means possible that the ‘tag’ on the Ukrainian ‘kingdom’ is issued in Moscow.  Here he misjudged when measuring Poroshenko by Yanukovich’s standards.  While (Yanukovich) was mentally and in his interests fully immersed in the ‘Soviet-Russian’ world. Petro Poroshenko is strictly oriented towards Western values.

It is obvious that ‘DNR’ and ‘LNR’ projects have no support in the Donbas and Luhansk oblasts. The recall of the main ideologists and harbingers of terrorism in this region, Girkin and Bezler, and then the ‘people’s governor of Donbas’ and head of the mobilization headquarters of the ‘DNR Defense Ministry,’ former neo-Nazi Pavel Gubarev, show they have already done their job. Putin removed these failed marionettes and took the reigns into his own hands.  However, this cannot change the situation, as Russia is fighting against the Ukrainian nation, which does not want to return to any form of the former Soviet Union, under any circumstances…

http://www.radiosvoboda.org/content/article/26575748.html

[Boethius]

The perspective of young Ukrainians -


http://ukrainianweek.com/Society/119192

[Stirlitz]

Let me explain something more as you all fall hook, line and silnk to the trolls...


1. Ukrainian was not always oppressed in the Soviet Union. There were spells when pro-Russian communists were at power but pro-Ukrainian ones would take over sooner or later. When the latter came to power, Ukrainian was literally forced on everyone in Ukraine: officials had to speak Ukrainian only, everything had to be only in Ukrainian; it happened in the 1920s, in the 1960s. When the former ruled, Ukrainian was not oppressed but was not imposed, was not promoted and had no advantage over Russian. At school, in the 1980s, I did not study Ukrainian because I was Russian so I was exempt from it per my family wish. That meant I still had to attend lessons but was not required to do anything and got no marks. As a child I was very happy. Now I am not too happy about that and must admit that my grandparents were too much pro-Russian and as a result anti-Ukrainian, antisemitic, etc. Yet I do not remember any oppressions against Ukrainian or Ukrainian-speaking people. Perhaps I was a child and did not notice many things.


2. Russian is de facto the second language of Ukraine. 100% Ukrainians understand it, 99% are fluent, about 50% speak it daily as the primary language, about 30 to 40% consider it their mother tongue. Of course, it varies from west to east.


3. After Ukraine had become independent, nationalists were able to make Ukrainian the only state language. But it is wrong and misleading. Ukraine must have two state languages. The loss of the Crimea and half of the Donbass has not taught the idiots anything but if there had been two state languages in Ukraine, both Russian and Ukrainian, it would have been much more difficult for the Kremlin and Putin to start the unrest. The language issue was their strongest point.


4. The introduction of Russian as the second language is not going to harm Ukrainian. Those who spoke it before will speak it as usual. Look: I only speak Russian. Before 2014 I would not speak Ukrainian because it was kind of imposed on me, although I had been changing my attitude since 1992 and was more open to Ukrainian later. Now I wish I could speak it more and try to speak it when I can (although I sound funny confusing words all the time like the previous president). Yet I still speak mainly Russian because of many reasons. And the reasons are more important than any laws the government can adopt. So, eventually it does not matter if Ukrainian is the only language in Ukraine or it is both Russian and Ukrainian. Those who prefer to speak Ukrainian will go on. Those who speak Russian will speak Russian. At that, we all understand each other and never have issues: I am happy if they speak Ukrainian to me, they do not mind if I speak Russian to them. Russian being the second language in Ukraine is not going to compromise or oppress Ukrainian. Let me remind that in some European countries there are several languages that co-exist and none of them oppresses the other. Everybody knows about Switzerland with 4 languages, but few people know that in Finland only 5% speak Swedish but it is still the second language. The stupid claim of Ukrainian nationalists that Ukraine must speak Ukrainian, and the introduction of Russian will kill Ukrainian does not hold water: Finland speaks Finnish and Swedish and Finnish has not died because of it. Finally, they seem to forget or pretend to forget that the Ukrainian state was called Rus in the Middle Ages.


5. By the way, Russia (Rossiya) was Muscovy then. They kind of stole the name and the language from Ukraine. To be frank, Russians are not even Russian. They are an Asian people who adopted the language of the neighbor. History knows such examples. Half of Europe speaks a Roman language because the Roman empire was there, although originally not all Europeans were Romans.

[Muzh]

Thanks for posting the link.  This appears to be something the pro separatists and Russians might accept, if it can pass the Ukrainian parliament passes it.  Regardless it is a step in the right direction as it could create a temporary fragile peace which could grow stronger with some time.    Much to the chagrin of many here, both countries could move forward with a bit of a win.  I'll be curious to hear the reasoning of the people who oppose the proposal.


Fathertime!

You and your win-win scenarios.


I know you can't see past your nose so I'll try to use small words for you to understand.


This agreement will create a frozen conflict. If you don't know what that is, allow me:


In international relations, a frozen conflict is a situation in which active armed conflict has been brought to an end, but no peace treaty or other political framework resolves the conflict to the satisfaction of the combatants.
Now, take a wild guess who will be manipulating this frozen conflict. Three guesses and the first two don't count. I will not ask you why because it would be a sorry sight to see a man's head explode.


For exhibit A, we have:

In an interview on Russian state television, Andrei Purgin, a rebel leader in Donetsk region, rejected "the political embraces of Ukraine." But he added, "We will study this framework law closely and look for points of commonality for further talks." He said the separatists are ready to discuss "economic, sociocultural issues and security."

Do you really think Ukraine will win anything here? Seriously?
Only cowards would see this as a win-win.

[Gator]

Let me explain something more as you all fall hook, line and silnk to the trolls...

I enjoy your reports.  Your style is scholarly, and seemingly balanced, even admitting that Ukraine has contributed to the conflict because of how the language issue was handled.  We have the Tea Party in America, and it seems you have a group or two just as radical.   


When I first read your sentence "Ukrainian was not always oppressed in the Soviet Union,"  I misread it as Ukrainian people, not the language.  I took exception because  I knew about the Holodomor, decossackization (my wife's ancestors), etc.

This made we wonder about something.  A few RW I met expressed prejudices against Ukrainians.    Is such prejudice widespread, and if so, does it contribute to the current conflict?

[Boethius]

Let me explain something more as you all fall hook, line and silnk to the trolls...


1. Ukrainian was not always oppressed in the Soviet Union. There were spells when pro-Russian communists were at power but pro-Ukrainian ones would take over sooner or later. When the latter came to power, Ukrainian was literally forced on everyone in Ukraine: officials had to speak Ukrainian only, everything had to be only in Ukrainian; it happened in the 1920s, in the 1960s. When the former ruled, Ukrainian was not oppressed but was not imposed, was not promoted and had no advantage over Russian. At school, in the 1980s, I did not study Ukrainian because I was Russian so I was exempt from it per my family wish. That meant I still had to attend lessons but was not required to do anything and got no marks. As a child I was very happy. Now I am not too happy about that and must admit that my grandparents were too much pro-Russian and as a result anti-Ukrainian, antisemitic, etc. Yet I do not remember any oppressions against Ukrainian or Ukrainian-speaking people. Perhaps I was a child and did not notice many things.

In the 1920's, there was a policy of "Ukrainization" by the Bolsheviks, as they were in danger of losing Ukraine.  It went hand in hand with NEP.   The purpose was to ensure the Revolution would succeed.  The policy was so successful in Ukraine, it was repeated in other Soviet republics.  If you are at all familiar with Ukrainian literary criticism of the period, you would know that all of the intellectuals who flourished during that period, and all the writers, were killed, from about 1927 to 1931.  So, once the Revolution was "won", the policy of encouraging Ukrainian was reversed.  I knew Ukrainians who grew up in the 1930's, in and around Dnipropetrovsk.  They tell me they remember, as children, the churches being closed, and being discouraged from speaking Ukrainian.

In the 1960's, there was a small flourishing during Khrushchev's so called "thaw", and later, under Brezhnev.  The insidious explanation for this is that the latter wanted to draw Ukrainian nationalists out, so he could deal with them.  That, I happen to believe, is true, as most of the Ukrainian writers and intellectuals at that time who expressed any "Ukrainian" desire were arrested and put on trial, commencing in about 1968.  After that, Brezhnev stated Ukrainian need not be taught in schools as it is "a dialect of Russian".   Still, the reason Ukrainian was able to flourish then is also the result of Shelest's tenure as First Party Secretary in Ukraine, and, we know his fate.

So, I think you need to look at this more broadly.

2. Russian is de facto the second language of Ukraine. 100% Ukrainians understand it, 99% are fluent, about 50% speak it daily as the primary language, about 30 to 40% consider it their mother tongue. Of course, it varies from west to east.

In many areas, it is de facto the first language of Ukraine.

3. After Ukraine had become independent, nationalists were able to make Ukrainian the only state language. But it is wrong and misleading. Ukraine must have two state languages. The loss of the Crimea and half of the Donbass has not taught the idiots anything but if there had been two state languages in Ukraine, both Russian and Ukrainian, it would have been much more difficult for the Kremlin and Putin to start the unrest. The language issue was their strongest point.

4. The introduction of Russian as the second language is not going to harm Ukrainian. Those who spoke it before will speak it as usual. Look: I only speak Russian. Before 2014 I would not speak Ukrainian because it was kind of imposed on me, although I had been changing my attitude since 1992 and was more open to Ukrainian later. Now I wish I could speak it more and try to speak it when I can (although I sound funny confusing words all the time like the previous president). Yet I still speak mainly Russian because of many reasons. And the reasons are more important than any laws the government can adopt. So, eventually it does not matter if Ukrainian is the only language in Ukraine or it is both Russian and Ukrainian. Those who prefer to speak Ukrainian will go on. Those who speak Russian will speak Russian. At that, we all understand each other and never have issues: I am happy if they speak Ukrainian to me, they do not mind if I speak Russian to them. Russian being the second language in Ukraine is not going to compromise or oppress Ukrainian. Let me remind that in some European countries there are several languages that co-exist and none of them oppresses the other. Everybody knows about Switzerland with 4 languages, but few people know that in Finland only 5% speak Swedish but it is still the second language. The stupid claim of Ukrainian nationalists that Ukraine must speak Ukrainian, and the introduction of Russian will kill Ukrainian does not hold water: Finland speaks Finnish and Swedish and Finnish has not died because of it. Finally, they seem to forget or pretend to forget that the Ukrainian state was called Rus in the Middle Ages.

Although I don't disagree that language is used as a "divide and conquer", I am somewhat conflicted on two state languages at this time.  I believe there had to be a period where Ukrainian dominated in Ukraine, in order to preserve the language.  I remember when speaking Ukrainian was considered "quaint" and "backward" in Kyiv.  I am happy that is not the case anymore.

My husband, like you, is a native Russian speaker (though his Ukrainian is excellent, more fluent than mine, and he never mixes the languages, although he can't get rid of the "g" in some "h" words, common in Ukraine now, nor the "off" sound at the end of his verbs).  His view on language is similar to what you have expressed.  I believe that in time, your view will prevail and it is reasonable, however, I think Ukrainian needed to be cemented as a language in Ukraine.  I think it needs another decade for that to occur.  I don't believe the radical approach by some Western Ukrainians is in the best interests of Ukraine.

5. By the way, Russia (Rossiya) was Muscovy then. They kind of stole the name and the language from Ukraine. To be frank, Russians are not even Russian. They are an Asian people who adopted the language of the neighbor. History knows such examples. Half of Europe speaks a Roman language because the Roman empire was there, although originally not all Europeans were Romans.

Their leaders were the bastard princes of Kiev Rus'.

[Muzh]

and the English version

[Faux Pas]

I enjoy your reports.  Your style is scholarly, and seemingly balanced, even admitting that Ukraine has contributed to the conflict because of how the language issue was handled.  We have the Tea Party in America, and it seems you have a group or two just as radical.   

Really Gator, you see the Tea Party as radical?

[Muzh]

Really Gator, you see the Tea Party as radical?

LMAO


I guess you are one of the few who doesn't see them as radicals. Even the Tea Partiers around here are proud of their radicalism. Goldwater would have been proud of them.

[Faux Pas]

LMAO


I guess you are one of the few who doesn't see them as radicals. Even the Tea Partiers around here are proud of their radicalism. Goldwater would have been proud of them.

Think about it Muzh and take your time but, what on the Tea Party platform is not supported by the constitution? There's nothing radical about the TP other than with whispers from both the left and the right that they are radical. It's a ground swell of folks supporting the constitution and the only people that don'r like the idea are the Democrats and the Republicans. Doesn't that seem a bit odd to you?

[Muzh]

Think about it Muzh and take your time but, what on the Tea Party platform is not supported by the constitution? There's nothing radical about the TP other than with whispers from both the left and the right that they are radical. It's a ground swell of folks supporting the constitution and the only people that don'r like the idea are the Democrats and the Republicans. Doesn't that seem a bit odd to you?

You just described Libertarians.

[AC]

Good. I'm glad you finally admitted you were wrong all along.

No, she's been right all along.  It's you who lives in a fantasy world; others are capable of looking at reality, which is what happens on a day to day basis in any given country. 


quote
"The existence of enterprises with workforces numbering many thousands and specific flow of privatisation have led to the emergence of an economic oligarchy in Ukraine. Ukraine became an oligarchic but democratic country. In contrast to political oligarchs, who during the Soviet era were members of the Soviet Union Communist Party Central Committee, today’s economic oligarchs are not a consolidated centre of power, so they do not pose a significant threat to democracy. Their efforts are directed towards competitive struggle - note on-going duel between Dmytro Firtash and Ihor Kolomoyskyi in the mass media. However, oligarchs are economically dangerous, because they do not allow real reform."


http://ukrainianweek.com/History/119195

(this link was first provided by poster Boethius on another thread)

[Faux Pas]

You just described Libertarians.

 

Close but no. I am a libertarian. I do not consider myself a TP'er although I do agree with much their platform. Rather than parrot your party line, look a bit closer at the TP platform and make up your own mind

[Muzh]

 

Close but no. I am a libertarian. I do not consider myself a TP'er although I do agree with much their platform. Rather than parrot your party line, look a bit closer at the TP platform and make up your own mind

Did it already.


BTW, I don't have a party unless you bring the beer.

[Faux Pas]

Did it already.


BTW, I don't have a party unless you bring the beer.

So you've completely shunned the democrats? Congrats if so.

What do you find in the TP platform that could be considered radical, besides following the constitution as it is written? BTW, I have a valid reason why I am not a TP'er

I can certainly bring the beer

[Muzh]

Do that (beer) and I'd love to talk. 


P.S. I have a couple of good friends who are Libertarians and we also have the same "argument" over beers, of course.

[GQBlues]

No, she's been right all along.  followed by some really idiotic blather

    ::::sigh::::::

REPUBLIC: "a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch."

UKRAINIAN FORM OF GOVERNMENT: Unitary Semi-Presidential Constitutional REPUBLIC.

COUNTRIES RULED BY REPUBLIC: LIST HERE

Fool...silent....speak....no doubt


Cherish the lesson as I'm tired of edoookating you in an open forum.

[missAmeno]

History