Russian Women Discussion
RWD Discussion Groups => Scammers and Suspect Agencies => Topic started by: Manny on November 12, 2010, 02:44:27 AM
-
So what does this mean,
Perhaps it means that HRB/RLM are not a "scam agency" as some quarters of the industry find it convenient to paint them? Perhaps the lack of evidence, and the anti-scam systems in place as discovered by those who visited, were not newsworthy enough to keep repeating. After all, who wants to go around shouting "ABC agency is not so bad after all"? Far easier to repeat a few rumours from some blokes who thought they were "scammed" video chatting with a woman thirty years their junior, which is what happens with many so called "scam" agencies.
The facts often get in the way of the rumours. Many prefer to ignore inconvenient facts and continue to perpetuate rumours. I wonder how many people who howl about "scam" agencies have actually used the agency they caution others not to use.
Some blokes think spending anything over $50 represents being scammed.
-
Far easier to repeat a few rumours from some blokes who thought they were "scammed" video chatting with a woman thirty years their junior, which is what happens with many so called "scam" agencies.
So are you saying the girls video chatting with men 30 years older than them are legitimately interested in marrying them?
If not, how is that not a scam? :-\
-
Jooky,
Nothing wrong with entertainment.
But it's not a scam. Remember it's usually the men clicking the button to chat with these hotties with unrealistic expectations.
-
Only 20% of the "girls" online at HRB/RLM are showing on webcam at any one time.The ones that are not showing on webcam still invite you to chat.
Why are these "girls" not showing on webcam ? When asked this question,they come out with excuses like they are at work,so cannot put their webcam on..yeah right,so they chat for hours every day on HRB/RLM while they are at work ?
Their work seems to be chatting on HRB/RLM,but they don't switch their webcam on,i wonder why ? Could it be the person chatting,is not the girl in the alluring photo's...surely not ? : ))))
How about the "girls" that are online chatting from midnight,right through to after 5am,most nights ,who also never appear on webcam,and there are many.
Who knows who you are chatting with,if you are naive enough to chat with a photo ?
This situation is a scam,but not a site scam in my opinion,PROVIDED the site is acting on this situation when they receive a complaint,as the CEO claimed they do on another forum.
The scam is with the local Ukrainian agencies,but what can you expect when dealing with such a corrupt society ,rivalled only by Nigeria in their lack of morals.
By the way,this is not hearsay,i speak from personal experience of using HRB.
-
So, if I'm sold 'beatiful vacation property in Florida' for dirt cheap prices, advertised using photos of beaches in Florida, is that a scam? Or it ok because I had 'unrealistic expectations'?
I know these guys are unrealistic suckers. It doesn't alleviate the fact that there are girls on the other side getting paid to chat that have no interest in these men, and that's not what the sites portray.
-
Jooky,
The terms and conditions of these sites is what rules. Are they violating their own terms?
Remember no tangible property is being sold so the Florida property is a bit of apple/orange.
As always buyer beware, regardless of product and especially service.
-
I'm not saying what they are doing is illegal. Nobody reads Terms and Conditions and they can be contested in court. And sure, 'buyer beware'.
That doesn't excuse these sites for taking advantage of suckers and just because their asses are covered legally it doesn't make them good sites for men actually looking to find a Russian wife.
-
Perhaps it means that HRB/RLM are not a "scam agency" as some quarters of the industry find it convenient to paint them?
Would you recommend HRB to a friend new to the RW endeavor?
Would you recommend a restaurant with glorious items on the menu yet the prices are high and the kitchen frequently serves imitation lobster meat? Actually, it is worse than that.
Whether a scam or not,
That doesn't excuse these sites for taking advantage of suckers and just because their asses are covered legally it doesn't make them good sites for men actually looking to find a Russian wife.
Exactly.
I will always recommend a newbie should use agencies that do not reek of such.
-
I'm not saying what they are doing is illegal. Nobody reads Terms and Conditions and they can be contested in court.
Not after agreeing to them every single time you enter the site. This method (and lessor ones) have already been sucessfully defended (enforced) numerous times in US courts.
That doesn't excuse these sites for taking advantage of suckers and just because their asses are covered legally it doesn't make them good sites for men actually looking to find a Russian wife.
Jooky:
I'd be curious to know if you really believe that you can hold yourself to the same "standards" that you expect others to achieve. Let's compare first what we're REALLY talking about....
YOU = Have complete control over your own actions and ethics
ME = Must rely on 42 domestic employees, 150 independent foreign Agencies, with who knows how many independent employees as well as literally tens of thousands of "free-spirited" ladies that are always ever-changing (coming and going).
Now... it's VERY easy to criticize, and point a "finger" at others, but not nearly as easy to undergo the exact same "scrutiny". For instance: You would insinuate, that it is not enough to...
1.) Create the most unforgiving SOP in the Industry with, by far, the tightest restrictions on Agencies and their expected/allowable conduct.
2.) Introduce Video Conferencing to this Industry (7 years ago) and revolutionize it (for the better) so that men can instantly "validate" ladies on-the-fly.
3.) Shift the primary commission structure (for the Agencies) from translating letters, to video (validated) chat. So much so, that Agencies openly complained about not being able to do what they're encouraged to do on ALL other sites! We said... "then leave"!
4.) Have established a documented history of "enforcing" the strictest policies in the entire Industry (easily proven in a courtroom) and having a list of more than 700 Agencies that have been refused, banned, fined and are no longer allowed on HRB/RLM!
Yet, you would now insinuate that I should do what exactly? ...
A.) Monitor EVERY single chat (even MORE than we do now) to ensure that we enforce/regulate (through hypnosis or lie-detection) the "sincerity" of EVERY lady that is more than "X" years younger than the man attempting to chat with her? OR;
B.) Just outlaw communication between male members (the men who don't lie about their age) and ladies over 10 years their junior? OR;
C.) Take the word of every middle-aged (or older) member, caught chasing "barely-20-something" females at his word (like NONE of them are EVER unrealistic) that the lady was "leading him on" because...
i) SHE didn't decline to chat with him immediately, because she somehow should have known (in advance) that she had NO intention of marrying him?
Totally ignoring the possibilities that;
ii) She was possibly bored and looking for some company, when HER (and ALL RW's) believe that all Americans are rich and after all, it IS only pennies-a-minute to chat. and;
iii) Assuming also that it has NOTHING to do with HIS selected topics of conversation, rudeness, unrealistic expectations, or possible lack of personality? OR;
D.) (My personal favorite) - Hire many private investigative firms across the entire FSU, to "infiltrate" all 150 independent Agencies (that we work with) in order to attempt to "catch" them (knowingly) engaged in "unethical" (covering a wide range of opinions regarding "ethics") but not necessarily illegal, behavior? Sure, because we all know how non self-serving FSU private investigative firms would prove to be!
Let's skip the first three and jump to the fourth...
I would propose (not even knowing what it is that you do for a living) that if I suggested that I had reason to believe that you were not totally living up to your employer's "expectations" because you could probably be FAR more conscientious (ethical) in your "time management" and probably get far more work done. And, that you should hire a private investigator (at YOUR expense) to infiltrate your employer's organization, and attempt to uncover any activity (or lack of) that may prove my "theory" that you were acting in an unethical fashion (because *I* believe your employer is not getting 100% from you, every minute, of every day) ...that you might not pass your OWN test!
Not to mention, you might be a bit upset after you spent SO much money to enforce someone else's unrealistic "idealism" and you're now out of work! Especially, if you already KNEW that YOU were the most conscientious employee in the entire company! But, regardless of that simple fact, you should be expected to hold yourself to a much higher "standard" going far beyond what is considered by society (well-defined in our laws) because *I* am unrealistic as to what you *I* think you should be required to do and more importantly, with complete disregard as to what others around you are currently producing (by comparison)? Sure, I'll pay to have YOU investigated!
The "line" I have chosen to draw in the sand is more ethical than any other site. Not perfect mind you, but closer than anyone else. And, as someone who I suspect is not willing to shell out the cost of a site like ours already, I doubt you would want to assume the added cost of such unrealistic "self-policing" tactics. We currently police far more (and better) than anyone else in the entire dating Industry...domestic and international combined!
But.... having said THAT ... Not to worry, I have finally come up with a way to solve ALL these "idealistic" issues!
Stay-tuned...
-
CEO, like I stated on RUA, I don't see that your operation in the states does anything illegal or directly 'scams' people. Your affiliates definitely do and you are unable to control them. In fact, you benefit from them misleading men, and you know it.
You're in a business that takes advantage of gullible men. If you can't see that, you are extremely naive (and I don't think you are).
I find that unethical. I would and do hold myself up to my own standards. I would not engage in a business that relies on taking advantage of suckers.
-
PS: CEO, just read your own post above.
Restrictions. Allowable conduct. Validating. Monitoring. Enforcing policies...
Do you think this is a normal and good way to meet a lady that could potentially be your wife?
Would YOU go through this type of bs 'process' to find a wife?
I don't and I wouldn't, so I don't recommend it. The more 'policing' you have to do just tells me it's not a good system to begin with.
On the other hand, I can use a normal dating or social site where men and women are on an equal level and give no thought to restrictions, validating, monitoring or any of that nonsense. I can talk to ladies directly and have no worries about getting scammed. I can chat on Skype where I can see them and they can see me if I want to. The only bother is an occasional obvious spam message.
-
Have established a documented history of "enforcing" the strictest policies in the entire Industry (easily proven in a courtroom)
That is excellent, if true. If true, why would you have a list of:
... more than 700 Agencies that have been refused, banned, fined and are no longer allowed on HRB/RLM!
That is a huge number! It begs the question - What does it take to be no longer allowed on HRB/RLM?
I do not need exact statistics, yet how many such bans were precipitated by complaints from men such as the following two?
http://russianlovematchscams.wordpress.com/2008/07/14/russianlovematch-tell-your-story/
Not to worry, I have finally come up with a way to solve ALL these "idealistic"
Stay-tuned...
Okay.
-
Do you think this is a normal and good way to meet a lady that could potentially be your wife?
Well, it HAS become the normal (and accepted) way in the new millenium.
Would YOU go through this type of bs 'process' to find a wife?
Absolutely! And it wouldn't take me that long either!
I don't and I wouldn't, so I don't recommend it. The more 'policing' you have to do just tells me it's not a good system to begin with.
Well, unfortunately the "system" was already in place LONG before I got here. However I DO agree that's it's not a good system, so I have been hard at work developing a much better one!
On the other hand, I can use a normal dating or social site where men and women are on an equal level and give no thought to restrictions, validating, monitoring or any of that nonsense. I can talk to ladies directly and have no worries about getting scammed. I can chat on Skype where I can see them and they can see me if I want to. The only bother is an occasional obvious spam message.
And how's THAT been working for you lately? What's a normal dating site... match.com?
I was on match.com (and other so-called normal sites) doing research 8 years ago and was approached mainly by prostitutes with literally hundreds of Profiles (each had nearly one Profile for each city in the US) and professionals (not even sure if they were women) trying to lure me to their websites (that their younger sisters made for them) where I might be tempted to pull out my credit card (needed to gain entry) for a glimpse of their racier photos. You can sign-up as Humpty Dumpty or Mickey Mouse, and scams are rampant on those sites! Eight years ago match.com had over 180,000 RW Profiles! Even the so-called "normal" members lie about their age (and looks). Of the so-called 4,000,000 Profiles they had back then, I would estimate that over 1 Million were professionals looking for suckers! And THERE it's fair game! No Validation, No policing, No monitoring, etc., etc. Just a great place for professional con artists to find unsuspecting victims! Word to the wise.... if you have "no worries about getting scammed", then you're probably bound to fall victim sooner or later.
Bottom line: The Industry, and primarily those in government, are about to change how you go about "interacting" online everywhere. There aren't going to be any more "normal" sites.
-
That is a huge number! It begs the question - What does it take to be no longer allowed on HRB/RLM?
Just real evidence, not accusations.
I do not need exact statistics, yet how many such bans were precipitated by complaints from men such as the following two?
There is NO Stan Jensen ... it's a competitor falsely accusing and defaming... we have an action filed and we'll get to the bottom of it soon enough. We have enjoyed 1/10th of 1% chargebacks for 6 years solid! That's a 99.9% customer satisfaction rate... higher than all the dating sites in the entire Industry (so I'm told). We've looked for these so-called dissatisfied "customers" in an effort to satisfy them. Most don't exist!
Don't believe everything you read online (posted anonymously) or written by customers that we've fully refunded and banned from the site for inappropriate behavior.
-
Using sites that mediate and monitor your conversations is not the normal and accepted way of meeting people and never will be. Thank God for that.
And how's THAT been working for you lately?
If you didn't resort to exaggerations (I know what it's like to use match.com, hardly as bad as you described and I'm not dumb or desperate enough for an obvious spam mail to lure me to a porn site) and personal insinuations that just show you know nothing about me we might actually be able to have a conversation.
As it is, I'm not interested.
-
We have enjoyed 1/10th of 1% chargebacks for 6 years solid! That's a 99.9% customer satisfaction rate... higher than all the dating sites in the entire Industry (so I'm told).
NO, that is not 99.9% Csat... that's just 1/10th of 1% of your customers were able to get their money back via their banks.
It's a big difference from what customer satisfaction actually is. Might mean there's some room for improvement in your business if you haven't worked out what a satisfied customer is yet.
-
Yup Kuna... and you probably also know that it's easy for a business to prevent a chargeback by showing that they did provide the services promised in their terms. That shouldn't be too hard for these type of sites to do.
-
Kuna,
In all fairness (and I'm not the type to jump on agency bandwagons) do you have personal experience with this organization? Second hand? Any hand?
Jooky,
You've mentioned several times that the gullible guys are getting harmed. From the looks of it can I assume this is a pretty big organization you are talking about? Haven't a clue how many customers they have, but are all those customers gullible?
I mean there are a lot of 'get rich quick', 'get laid in 24 hour' books along with 'make your penis larger in a week' products out there. Just about anyone with an IQ greater than their age sorta knows what's going on.. and of course there are the RW related sites.. Yes, there are a few that may believe they can login and order a bride, but I think there is not much one can do to help them. Some may even have a little success trying to improve their self image or walk around with weights hanging from their penis - who really knows.
The word 'scam' is being used way too much, too often and too broadly - now days it includes anyone that even feels the slightest infringement of their rights or pocketbook. You don't really hear 'I was not impressed', 'I was deluded', 'It did not work for me', 'I paid too much', or 'my expectations were too high or not met'.. They all scream 'SCAM' instead.
Based on the popular definition, scammers in my life are:
The government
The electric company
The telephone company
The car salesman
The electrician
The plumber
The friend I loaned 20 bucks
etc etc..
Regarding all this webcam stuff, it's getting very popular.. My wife finally installed skype to chat with mother and friends, I broke down and installed face time and my most frequent caller is my little son on his ipod in the next room. That some man desires to chat with a woman to see where the chat leads is quite all right for both parties. The chances of marriage whether via physical agency, organized meetings in smoky cafe's, speed dating, going on vacation or simply visiting your local grocers is quite slim already so what can really be wrong, less effective or worse off with webchatting?
The only true scam I could think of with webchatting is if instead of a live woman, your computer is fed with a recorded video stream.
Is that happening?
-
The only true scam I could think of with webchatting is if instead of a live woman, your computer is fed with a recorded video stream.
Is that happening?
What's been told is that at some agencies women are paid to sit at the camera while a translator juggles various conversations with that woman. The women are not part of the conversation unless the translator tells them to do something specific for the camera.
In addition: Women paid to pretend to be interested when they're not. Women paid to go on dates. Women required to respond to all messages when they're not interested. etc. etc. Come on. You've read these forums for years and have seen all the complaints.
Why have we heard so many complaints about HRB and AWeb yet not about Elena's Models, FreePersonals, Lucky Lovers, bride.ru, Russian personals sites and so on?
Regardless, I don't think that a one way web cam 'chat' mediated by a third party is a good way to meet someone. So, I'm not going to recommend it. I don't buy that it's the way of the future.
I recommend direct contact and meeting women you can directly communicate with ... if you plan to marry someone it kind of makes sense, no?
-
PS: To BC, you should sign up with HRB and tell me what you think of the legitimacy of the women sending you chat requests. You will get a TON. Tell me those ladies are sincerly looking to chat with you as a marriage prospect.
Sure you can call it an entertainment site. I'll agree with that. It should be billed as a purely entertainment site.
As such, when men come here looking to find a serious relationship should we direct them to sites that are primarily for entertainment only?
-
Kuna,
In all fairness (and I'm not the type to jump on agency bandwagons) do you have personal experience with this organization? Second hand? Any hand?
None at all... but any idiot knows .1% chargeback on CC transactions doesn't translate to a 99.9% customer satisfaction rating...
I've also never:
- Used Eduard's service, but I don't believe his claims of a 100% success rate for his clients;
- Stuck my foot in a bear trap, but I know it hurts, and;
- Opened a door on a moving jet plane, but know you shouldn't do it.
So you're point is?
-
What's been told is that at some agencies women are paid to sit at the camera while a translator juggles various conversations with that woman. The women are not part of the conversation unless the translator tells them to do something specific for the camera.
In addition: Women paid to pretend to be interested when they're not. Women paid to go on dates. Women required to respond to all messages when they're not interested. etc. etc. Come on. You've read these forums for years and have seen all the complaints.
Why have we heard so many complaints about HRB and AWeb yet not about Elena's Models, FreePersonals, Lucky Lovers, bride.ru, Russian personals sites and so on?
Regardless, I don't think that a one way web cam 'chat' mediated by a third party is a good way to meet someone. So, I'm not going to recommend it. I don't buy that it's the way of the future.
I recommend direct contact and meeting women you can directly communicate with ... if you plan to marry someone it kind of makes sense, no?
Perhaps you should register on RHB and get proof about what you are told, might clean up another couple of agencies if CEO keeps his guidelines.
We are monitored in our conversations anywhere, as long as they are not direct. And even in direct conversatons you will find women who hve no intent of marrying, but just keep things going because of the nice feelings.
-
A lot of people read this board. In the past we had posters who basically made stupid profiles(one guy even used a picture of a monkey) on agencys similar to HRB. They would still get hundreds if not thousands of responses. Now I'm sure there is nothing illegal about it but it would make any sane man question integrity of the site if not call it a down right scam. You have to pay to open the emails.
So, any of you 50 plus guys out there who get hundreds of letters from early knockout 20 something girls from HRB care to comment?
Again nothing illegal about doing business this way but any companies reputation will suffer because of it.
-
I am a member of HRB, Shadow.
I see no difference between it and AWeb. I have a bunch of emails piled up from all kinds of hotties. I sign in and the Live Chat requests from babes are waiting as if all these young thangs were waiting for the moment I logged on. I have some smoking hot supermodels that added me to their 'Admire list'.
Try it out. You can be a stud like me too!
About 'proof' of what actually goes on in these agencies, forgetaboutit. No woman in her right mind is going to put herself in jeopardy to post here or any other board.
How about you sign up with HRB and tell me if you think all those first contacts that you have to pay for are initiated by women that are even remotely interested in you?
I know this forum is mostly for entertainment, but there's one thing that I take seriously. That's when guys sincerely looking for a wife come here seeking serious advice. We may disagree on things but I think it's our duty to not mislead them just because we don't agree with the definition of a scam or some other nonsense.
So I challenge you, Manny and BC. Sign up for HRB. Don't post a photo. Get back to us in a week and tell us if you think that the many women that make first contact with you are really interested in meeting you are if they have some other reason to initiate contact. You'll get a bunch the moment you sign on.
Tell us then if you would recommend this site to newbies as a place to find a wife without being misled into wasting time and money on women that are there just for entertainment.
-
HRB's Chargeback Policy. Do I even need to say anything about this?
By using the Website or Services, users hereby acknowledge and agree that the purchase of any gift delivery service listed on the Website, and subsequent confirmation of delivery, constitutes value received. RTI specifically prohibits the solicitation of gifts by FNCs. However, RTI assumes no responsibility or liability for the actions, either online or offline, of Members, FNCs, or Agencies whatsoever. All users use the Website at their own risk. RTI strongly recommends that if an FNC solicits a Member for a gift, the Member should not send it.
Furthermore, all users covenant and agree that they will not initiate any cardholder chargebacks in an attempt to secure a refund, as any attempt to do so would constitute a violation of the terms of the purchase. Having acknowledged value received, users hereby agree that any effort to initiate such a chargeback would be a misrepresentation of fact and could be construed as an act of fraud.
-
Jooky,
I visited their home page today. I was quite surprised.. (I added emphasis)
Please understand, we are NOT a Russian Mail Order Bride website. If you want to find Russian Brides or Ukrainian Brides online and have her sent to your door, this is not the service for you. However, if you're looking for a unique opportunity in which to correspond with beautiful Russian women in a safe online dating environment, and you want to create some great friends along the way, you're in the right place. What you will find at HotRussianBrides.comŽ is a secure online dating environment where over 13,000 of the most Beautiful Russian Women are waiting to correspond with you!
Sorta debunks the gullible man theory.. At least those for those that are literate..
For the rest of the world, the language is enticing but does not promise more than a chance to meet someone that may be interested..
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWhz8fR1zlw[/youtube]
If I buy this car will I be able to do that?.. Of course not, not even close. I doubt a buyer, regardless of IQ, showing the clip in court will get a refund.
Bottom line, over the years I've seen a lot of complaints about Aweb, HRB, etc etc, but very few if any factual reports that folks did not get what they signed up and paid for.
I perused their Terms of Use and found them to be pretty much in line with other software (pun intended) disclaimers.
Really Jooky, I'm not suggesting anyone use these sites.. in fact I don't suggest anyone use an agency or tour either, but I'm not going to go on a save the world trip to try and stop folks from signing up for whatever reason they do. I accept what's happening as 'par for the course', just as you would if meeting some woman at an agency that seemed disinterested.
I get unsolicited offers from amazon.com, airlines even credit cards.. all within the terms of use I signed up for. Haven't a clue how all those invites come about, but I would handle it the same way by either deleting or following up with something that seemed interesting. I would think the invites men send are unsolicited so maybe it goes both ways?
If a guy signs up and ain't happy with their free trial he can just stop. If he can't then there must be something in it for him that he likes.
I'd really like to see a complaint like "I paid for credits and they did not give them to me" or "I canceled but they billed me anyway" or "I only chatted with a bot".
In any case that's enough from me on this subject.. I'm just passing time and gas while procrastinating other things that need to get done.
-
BC. If they're just a correspondence as entertainment site, not a Marriage Broker, why are they IMBRA compliant?
I disagree that it's par for the course. Sign up on Elena's Models you don't get a ton of attention from young hotties that aren't really interested in you. Sign up for HRB or AWeb and you do. It's fine for entertainment, but if you're serious sifting through the real and the not really interested is an unnecessary obstacle.
We're not here to save the world, but we are here to help guys out. At least we should be.
-
A lot of people read this board. In the past we had posters who basically made stupid profiles (one guy even used a picture of a monkey) on agencys similar to HRB. They would still get hundreds if not thousands of responses. Now I'm sure there is nothing illegal about it but it would make any sane man question integrity of the site if not call it a down right scam. You have to pay to open the emails.
Facetrock:
"In the past" refers to over 5 years ago! That "issue" was resolved almost immediately (over 5 years ago). You need to understand, that when I first developed this platform, I (basing the idea on my OWN experiences) decided to incorporate a feature that we called "Introduction Letters". This was because when I was using other dating sites I found myself sending out multiple letters (and using my "copy/paste" function a lot). At the time I remember thinking, "Damn! It would be cool if a website had a format where I could write ONE (or save as many as 10 variation) draft letter(s), save it, and have it automatically insert the salutation (dynamically) to whatever member I decided to send it to!" Then I could speed up this process, and send out multiple letters (spam) that "appeared" to be personalized to each lady I was contacting. Viola! "Introduction Letters"!
However .... "Introduction Letters" are FREE to open, and if you'd EVER actually been a customer, you'd know enough to refrain from making such false statements. 6 years later (in retrospect), I would not offer this service (not to RW anyway), as it has definitely been "overused". But it is NO more than an elaborate form of a "wink", "nudge", "flirt" or attempt to generate interest! They're FREE !!!!! That typically means no "harm, no foul"!
I don't really appreciate people being SO opinionated (and perpetuating negative comments) about a service they've probably NEVER used.
None at all... but any idiot knows .1% chargeback on CC transactions doesn't translate to a 99.9% customer satisfaction rating...
Sorry, you obviously are NOT a "domestic" online merchant with a "domestic" (and dedicated) processing relationship.
First,
1.) The Industry average (in THIS Industry) is in excess of 5% charge-backs! This is why THIS is "classified" as a "High-risk" Industry. Therefore, less than 1% would be unbelievable, but 0.01% is outstanding!!! Period! We are a highly sought-after merchant account...a low-risk account in a high-risk Industry. Simply Unheard of...so please don't make light of something you have no understanding of.
2.) It is NOT easy to reverse a chargeback. Quite the contrary!
3.) Furthermore, once a chargeback is "registered" against your account, even if it is ultimately reversed, it DOES NOT change your rating, as it is NOT removed from your "registered charge-backs". In other words, if you experience 5.1% in charge-backs in August, even if you (over the next two months) were successful in reversing those charge-backs, that DOES NOT change your score for August! Period!
4.) When someone buys a $30 credit package, and then we receive a chargeback, that $30 is removed from the account, along a with a $25 "charge-back fee", then we can invest more "man-hours" having someone build a "case" by assembling a "case file" of information (log-ins, IP addresses, usage, emails, sign-in acknowledgements, correspondence between Admin and the member, etc.) This costs at least $25 per hour to have a case manager perform the "due diligence". Then after all that, the customer's Bank can STILL (and usually DOES) decline to pay the charge. So, the $30 is removed AGAIN and ANOTHER $25 is also removed (the SECOND "charge-back" fee). So, it costs me (on average) the $30 in lost services (maybe $10 profit) and $50 in chargeback fees, and at least $25-$30 (minimum) in "man-hours"...for a total loss of approximately $100 ! And BTW, all this STILL negatively blemished our impeccable "chargeback" record. Why not just refund the $30 immediately, BEFORE it becomes a Charge-back? That's right ... "unsatisfied customers" usually charge-back! Duh!
5.) I know of NO other site in this Industry that enjoys a relationship with the #1 Bank and one of the top three "Domestic" (3rd Largest) processors for "Domestic" (United States) credit card processing. I would venture to guess that EVERY other site out there is forced to process "off-shore" in "high-risk" aggregate (group) processing accounts through "third-party" processors! As one of the only "stand-alone" Domestic credit card processing Merchants in this Industry, we jeopardize our processing relationship with the Bank if our charge-backs exceed a certain percentage in ANY given month. That's why I have always maintained a "refund first, ask questions later" policy.
6.) Anybody knows today that they can "effect" a charge-back through their Bank relatively easily. That's why it's currently referred to as "Friendly Fraud". Because it has graduated FAR beyond a valid "safe guard" for dissatisfied customers. It has become the new way to get 'free services'! Therefore, these days, your customer satisfaction rating IS premised on your rate of "Charge-backs"..NOT negative rumors and false complaints (initiated by unscrupulous competitors hiding behind fictitious names) and ultimately perpetuated by members of Forums (with "ties" to the Industry) who have never used your service.
7.) Any other site (and I repeat "ANY") in this entire Industry experiences a higher rate of Charge-backs than we do! So regardless of HOW you decide to "rate" customer satisfaction, you will find ONE thing to be as sure as life itself... the higher the rate of charge-backs, the lower the customer satisfaction... Period.
In closing:
I know (first hand) most of the Agencies that exist, as such, I have "inside" information as to how ALL other sites are run (not to mention how those Agencies operate). Regardless of inherent problems (as exist in EVERY industry), ours is (by far) the "safest bet" regarding Customer Satisfaction. That's why we're available 24/7 by "LIVE Web-Hostess", and 1-800-customer service number...NOT some obscure email (like EVERY OTHER site out there)! Stop simply "bashing" and do some actual research.
Also, stop looking for perfection everywhere else, it doesn't exist. Nowhere, no Industry, no family, no marriage, nobody!
Look for the good in things, make the best of a situation, don't throw stones when you live in a glass house, don't bear false witness, etc., etc. Anyone, who is unhappy with our service has ALWAYS been no more than a simple FREE chat, toll-free phone call, or an email away from "satisfaction". However, we can't make a woman love you, and we can't convince all our customers to re-examine their expectations. Sometimes, all we can do is refund your money (so that your "experience" was at MY expense)! Just try to get a refund (or even a timely response) at ANY other competitor's site :-)
-
BC. If they're just a correspondence as entertainment site, not a Marriage Broker, why are they IMBRA compliant?
I disagree that it's par for the course. Sign up on Elena's Models you don't get a ton of attention from young hotties that aren't really interested in you. Sign up for HRB or AWeb and you do. It's fine for entertainment, but if you're serious sifting through the real and the not really interested is an unnecessary obstacle.
We're not here to save the world, but we are here to help guys out. At least we should be.
Jooky:
YOU really should have come down here with Tom T and Andrewfi! You obviously could benefit from an "education".
ANY site that facilitates correspondence between American Men and Foreign women ("entertainment" or otherwise) where;
1.) That "interaction" represents your "primary" business, and;
2.) Where ladies are not required to pay and the men are.... is (by IMBRA definition) an IMB.
Sifting through "professionals" is a challenge on ANY site! There will always be lots of people on any type of social networking or dating site that have an "ulterior motive" and are simply there to further their own self-serving agenda. There are just as many American "Cowboys" just looking to "score" with as many RW as possible, with absolutely NO intentions of getting married. But it's fairly easy to "sift" through all that and find a "diamond in the rough" ... it's simply a "numbers game", always was been, always will be.
CEO
-
Thanks, I would take you up on that offer if I had time. Maybe next time we this topic comes up. TomT seems bearable enough, but please not with Andrew.
For now, how about you take the challenge. Sign up on your own site with a bogus profile of a man that couldn't get laid in a Reno whorehouse.
Then see all the instant chat requests, admirers and emails this profile gets.
If you weren't the CEO, how would you feel about this? Would you feel that these ladies are really interested in you? Or would you think something fishy is going on? I don't think you'll give a sincere answer, but really, think about the impression your site gives and why a guy like me and many others can't recommend your site when there are so many other options where the women have no motivation to contact you unless they're truly potentially interested.
-
For now, how about you take the challenge. Sign up on your own site with a bogus profile of a man that couldn't get laid in a Reno whorehouse.
Then see all the instant chat requests, admirers and emails this profile gets.
If you weren't the CEO, how would you feel about this? Would you feel that these ladies are really interested in you? Or would you think something fishy is going on? I don't think you'll give a sincere answer, but really, think about the impression your site gives and why a guy like me and many others can't recommend your site when there are so many other options where the women have no motivation to contact you unless they're truly potentially interested.
Well, better to feel "loved" than absolutely "ignored" I guess. Trust me, I've seen BOTH extremes, if you were only getting "hits" from truly "interested" (and serious) women (and I don't care WHERE you are) then you'll be a lonely guy! It's like getting "pissed off" at the fact that most of the ladies (at the bar on "Ladies' night") are simply there for the free drinks and probably not specifically to meet you! It's called "life", simply learn how to use it to your advantage!
Anyway... I told you (already) ... the entire problem has been solved/resolved, once and for all. All the Industry "woes" (along with the Industry) will pretty much disappear!
Again..... "stay tuned" :-)
-
HRB/RLM
First, I have never used your service. I've not had a reason to but, I do have a question. I have been on the forums for a number of years and I have seen a number of accusations that your company and a number of others actually have paid employees and/or women who receive some sort of compensation for webcam chats. Is this true? Are there regular practices to extract more money from customers where the girl/woman clearly isn't interested in pursuing a relationship with said customer yet encouraged lead him on?
BTW, I do think it admirable that you would come on RWD to answer allegations regarding your practices and business model. The reputation of your company and a number of others from the standpoint of the average forum poster/reader is not a good one, IMO. Much of the info posted on the boards come from dissatisfied customers. Rarely do satisfied agency customers come to share their experiences.
-
quote CEO: Well, better to feel "loved" than absolutely "ignored" I guess. Trust me, I've seen BOTH extremes, if you were only getting "hits" from truly "interested" (and serious) women (and I don't care WHERE you are) then you'll be a lonely guy! It's like getting "pissed off" at the fact that most of the ladies (at the bar on "Ladies' night") are simply there for the free drinks and probably not specifically to meet you! It's called "life", simply learn how to use it to your advantage!
So its better to get attention from insincere women???? How do you get women to give men attention that they have no interest in???
I think you just made a good case a lot of false letters are sent to men from your site. Correct me if I am wrong but it sure seems like it.
-
The women getting free drinks at 'ladies night' don't go up to some dork and pretend to like him.
If I'm reading it right, you're saying that HRB is like a 'ladies night', where the women aren't there for the men, they're just enjoying the 'free drinks'. So what's the incentive to approach so many men? Is that a condition of them getting 'free drinks'?
-
Much of the info posted on the boards come from dissatisfied customers.
There is the question of why some of these folks are dissatisfied. I know from my wife's experience dealing with men seeking Russian women, many men have laughable expectations. Men arrive on these dating sites with all kinds of ideas about "buying" women and some feel entitlement because they paid. Its not hard to generate a few dissatisfied customers really.
Many guys of sixtyish are dissatisfied when a size zero Barbie doll from the FSU, in her early twenties, isn't as enthusiastic about catering to his every whim in his retirement in Idaho as he had imagined. He paid some money to a site to facilitate contact. What happens next? He starts howling from the rooftops about how he was "scammed". He wasn't scammed, he was just a fool.
There is a 49 page topic on HRB on RUA. Throughout those 49 pages nobody appeared who was actually scammed.
As referenced above, TomT visited their offices in Florida. There were several things that jumped out at me from the resultant topic:
I read the three BBB complaints thoroughly; they struck me as being completely without merit, gave me a very bad impression of the authors and spoke volumes about the reasons for their failures.
Men my age shouldn't be writing to teenagers. If you don't get it, please get some help; there is nothing that HRB can do for you.
...........whether or not serious male clients actually get married.
In regard to the latter, the telephone directory-sized scrapbook of wedding photos and hand-written letters of gratitude was very compelling anecdotal evidence. Going to the trouble of fabricating such a volume of evidence beggars belief.
HRB undoubtedly has multiple weddings under their belt. They have low chargeback rates in an industry traditionally very full of very many problematical and cheapskate clients. You may not think the business model ideal for you; you are free to choose another medium that suits you better.
-
Well,i had a profile on Aweb this year.I'm in my fifties,and i had all my correct details on my profile,but no photo.I can confirm i was getting at least five unsolicited letters a day from amazingly beautiful girls of all ages,although their photo's are clearly photo-shopped,and no i'm not a billionaire.
As for HRB/RLM,i would say the girls photo's are more natural.This is a business for HRB/RLM,and although we may question the ethics of it,no man has to join the site,it's each mans individual choice.
As i said in a previous comment on this thread,the majority of "girls" online do not appear on webcam.Out of interest CEO,do these non-webcam online chatters earn as much for their local agencies as the girls that do appear on webcam ? If so,it's something that needs to be addressed,although you may well be dealing with that anyway within all the changes you are making.
HRB/RLM cannot really be held accountable for the motives and actions of local agencies and their girls,provided proven cases of dubious behaviour are dealt with,regarding men,local agencies and women.The service advertised is provided,in that there are girls available on webcam for chat,for 24 hours a day,catering to all time zones.Would a man find a future wife among these girls ? Although the chances are not high,there is a small chance,but finding the right person is not easy whichever way you try,with some good luck needed along the way.Let's not forget,most men from these sites don't visit FSU anyway,for whatever reason,so for them it's just paid entertainment,so i guess they are happy with the service.
The CEO of HRB/RLM doesn't need to come on here,i cannot imagine our comments affect his business much,if at all, but ,unlike other big site owners ,he does,so fair play to him for that at least.
-
There is the question of why some of these folks are dissatisfied. I know from my wife's experience dealing with men seeking Russian women, many men have laughable expectations. Men arrive on these dating sites with all kinds of ideas about "buying" women and some feel entitlement because they paid. Its not hard to generate a few dissatisfied customers really.
You won't find much disagreement with that here. Some people will complain about being hung with a new rope. This entire endeavor just by it's very nature is extremely attractive to the misfits and social lepers of the world. Many with no chance to date or even garner the attention of less desirable local women.
Many guys of sixtyish are dissatisfied when a size zero Barbie doll from the FSU, in her early twenties, isn't as enthusiastic about catering to his every whim in his retirement in Idaho as he had imagined. He paid some money to a site to facilitate contact. What happens next? He starts howling from the rooftops about how he was "scammed". He wasn't scammed, he was just a fool.
Manny to infer the dissatisfied customer base falls into this category alone is wrong and intellectually dishonest. You are deflecting the problem to only a segment of dissatisfied customers. I would venture to guess they come from all age groups and backgrounds. Many men who wind up on agency sites are not the misfits and lepers, are capable, sincere in their efforts and scammed anyway. Many of the dissatisfieds do not fall in the demographic you mention here. I wouldn't go so far as to call all that are scammed fools but, certainly gullible.
There is a 49 page topic on HRB on RUA. Throughout those 49 pages nobody appeared who was actually scammed.
As referenced above, TomT visited their offices in Florida. There were several things that jumped out at me from the resultant topic:
HRB undoubtedly has multiple weddings under their belt. They have low chargeback rates in an industry traditionally very full of very many problematical and cheapskate clients. You may not think the business model ideal for you; you are free to choose another medium that suits you better.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. No doubt HRB has some unions as a result of meeting through it's services. AWEB can make the same claims. My question was for my own clarification from "the horse's mouth" as to if these scenarios exist. Several years ago I looked them over and they were not for me based mostly on information I read on forums and gauging them from their website and marketing information.
Manny, you seem to attempt to answer my question yet still avoiding it as if you are shilling for HRB. Do you see my question as unfair?
-
There is a 49 page topic on HRB on RUA. Throughout those 49 pages nobody appeared who was actually scammed.
49 pages, about 40 of them written by Sculpto. :P
Sculpto spent over $1000 'chatting' with a girl who didn't know him from Adam when he actually met her. You can debate the definition of 'scam', but he definitely felt taken advantage of as did a few others that posted.
The lack of actual HRB clients in that thread just goes to show how few people actually read your board. :-*
-
Manny, you seem to attempt to answer my question yet still avoiding it as if you are shilling for HRB. Do you see my question as unfair?
FP, I didn't respond to any question. I offered an opinion, based on a quote from your post, which I quoted for clarity.
Offering an opinion based on both known facts and personal experience about the industry cannot be construed as "shilling" by any stretch of the imagination really now can it? Nor can refusing to jump on the peanut gallery train without actual evidence from credible people. I have however read evidence from people I consider credible who have visited HRB's office. Have you?
Regards your comments about the demographic of the dissatisfied customer base. I cited a typical example, it was not meant to be all encompassing nor claim all people who claimed dissatisfaction fell into that category; but I think you knew that didn't you?
I wouldn't go so far as to call all that are scammed fools but, certainly gullible.
Nor would I. Nor did I. Please do not twist my words. I cited an example, and prefaced my comment with "he" denoting singular not plural. Please converse using what I actually wrote and not interpretations thereof.
-
49 pages, about 40 of them written by Sculpto. :P
Sculpto spent over $1000 'chatting' with a girl who didn't know him from Adam when he actually met her. You can debate the definition of 'scam', but he definitely felt taken advantage of as did a few others that posted.
If Sculpto is the typical dissatisfied customer, I doubt there is much to worry about.
The lack of actual HRB clients in that thread just goes to show how few people actually read your board. :-*
Trolling works for some when they lack a well constructed argument.
-
FP, I didn't respond to any question. I offered an opinion, based on a quote from your post, which I quoted for clarity.
My mistake then. I asked a pointed question of HRB CEO and your attempt to break down the "why" there is dissatisfied customers is not related, no? Likely, IMO the reason for dissatisfied customers is, they didn't feel they received what they paid for or, was led to believe what they were purchasing. I don't see the complexity there.
Offering an opinion based on both known facts and personal experience about the industry cannot be construed as "shilling" by any stretch of the imagination really now can it? Nor can refusing to jump on the peanut gallery train without actual evidence from credible people.
Well yes, actually it can. Your opinion was not solicited in my question to HRB CEO. Your explanation based on "your opinion and experience" that the sixtyish men looking for twentyish women constitutes the dissatisfied customer base is misleading. There is no connection from it to whether women are paid to chat and lead men on with the laughable fantasies you mention, is there?
Who are the "credible people" you mention? Forum and agency owners, customers, forum posters? Was this an inference I am without credibility, unworthy to question and part of the peanut gallery?
Regards your comments about the demographic of the dissatisfied customer base. I cited a typical example, it was not meant to be all encompassing nor claim all people who claimed dissatisfaction fell into that category; but I think you knew that didn't you?
I would say that yes, I knew that and I knew it could possibly easily be misleading and deflecting from my question to HRB CEO. Were you trying to state that complaint's from the 40ish man seeking 20ish women are more valid and less typical?
-
Well yes, actually it can. Your opinion was not solicited in my question to HRB CEO. Your explanation based on "your opinion and experience" that the sixtyish men looking for twentyish women constitutes the dissatisfied customer base is misleading. There is no connection from it to whether women are paid to chat and lead men on with the laughable fantasies you mention, is there?
Faux Pas:
Women are simply not paid to chat by HRB/RLM, and all HRB/RLM Agencies are forbidden to pay ladies to chat as part of an Independent Agency Agreement. I obviously cannot "guarantee" (nor would I take on THAT liability) that it has not happened. But I do NOT say this as any form of admission, OR as some "sneaky" way to attempt to "skate" the issue, but merely because it could happen and would be hard for us to prove, (unless we discover a chat or email "admission" on the site). I know that the majority of the so-called "complaints" about our company were "fabricated" by people who stood to gain financially by defaming us.
However, aside from posts on this (and another main) forum, I know of NO HRB/RLM customer who EVER complained about his dissatisfaction (or quit the site because of issues) stemming from his suspicion that girls are paid to chat. This entire "attack" was "dreamed up" by a competitor who does NOT offer Video Chat or Chat services, and then was perpetrated by a few "key" false identities! Period.
However, I HAVE had customers quit the site after reading such posts here and on jimslist.com & agencyscams.com. Furthermore, dissatisfied customers (like Sculpto) have jumped on the "bandwagon" AFTER the fact. But I receive a copy of EVERY membership termination (and the reasons behind it).
Most men, that suspect younger ladies of initiating "interaction" with them "insincerely" usually just ignore those more aggressive ladies' advances. I am personally suspicious of "aggressive" women on ANY site. But I'm not about to ban them without proof, just for being aggressive. I've banned more agencies and ladies than any other site in the industry, but sooner or later, you simply establish the rules, draw the line, and then hold your ground. They all know, "three strikes and you're out"!
CEO
-
I know of NO HRB/RLM customer who EVER complained about his dissatisfaction (or quit the site because of issues) stemming from his suspicion that girls are paid to chat. This entire "attack" was "dreamed up" by a competitor who does NOT offer Video Chat or Chat services, and then was perpetrated by a few "key" false identities! Period.
Unlike some agencies, you have a lot of unhappy customers. I'm not buying that it's a competitior of yours that's attacking you. I've seen a lot of attacks and the management at these forums can check IP addresses to see if someone is using different the same computer to make different account names. Many of your customers have come here and said a few of the girls at your site confessed to getting paid.
Look at the activity of some of the ladies at your site. Some are on the computer at wee hours of the morning and stay on half the day. Do you want to know how real women in real life operate? They have a life and can't spend that much time on the computer. Join the free sites freepersonals.ru or Mamba.ru or the paid site bride.ru and you'll understand that the women at your site clearly behave much differently than at those sites.
A lot of your regular customers are naive and dumb and don't understand they're being played. Your smart customers don't join or at least get out fast after joining after learning the women don't behave right. Hot young women aren't starving for local or international attention from males so a guy has to ask himself why is she online with him for hours at 2 AM in the morning everyday. Cash, trips and gifts are all motivating factors.
I've banned more agencies and ladies than any other site in the industry, but sooner or later, you simply establish the rules, draw the line, and then hold your ground. They all know, "three strikes and you're out"!
Yeah, I know how that works. Do what you have to do to make us $ but don't get caught or you're outta here.
-
This entire "attack" was "dreamed up" by a competitor who does NOT offer Video Chat or Chat services, and then was perpetrated by a few "key" false identities! Period.
Was the following 'dreamed up' by a competitor?
I will add something to this that I have witnessed myself.
My wife was on HRB/RLM and she was also with the Orchid Agency in Odessa.
The reason my wife went to the agency is because her best friends sister was a translator there and talked her into it.
My wife directly stated that Orchid paid girls to chat on cam and also go on dates. However they did not pay all girls. Others (including my wife) were told they also had to spend ---- amount of time on cam or else.......
Now the difference between paid girls and Other girls is Paid girls had no interest in meeting anyone. The Other girls were interested and thought the idea of meeting people across the world was interesting however even all them did not consider marriage.
When I went to Odessa the first time my wife showed me the location of the agency. She did not want to walk up to the agency herself because she did not want to see them. My wife broke the bonds and we found a way to communicate ourselves.
However I did go. it was behind a wall off the main street. The area was a part of Odessa were it seems all bus routes met down town. This is one reason they chose the location because it was easy for all girls to get there.
After walking through the opening in the wall to an open alley way (it was wider an neater then the average alley way, more of an open area) I did see a very big Women and a girl (very much a familiar face on HRB and on cam) arguing outside. I had no idea what they were saying since I only know english. They looked at me strange and in a way stopped their argument I presume so I would not see what they were talking about. I walked past them and farther down not going into the office but walking by it.
I saw the two ladies go back into the office. I then proceeded back and decided to walk in acting as if I was lost.
As soon as I entered the agency I saw instantly a Man behind the computer on the zolushka (HRB agency site) with a chat window open typing away. There was no girl near or around him at all.
At this time the larger lady more or less through me out. While I did not know what she was saying I am sure it was not very nice.
I went back out and found my wife. My wife at that point proceeded to tell me that she heard the two ladies arguing and it was about money. The young lady felt the agency ripped her off and was pointing out how many dates she went on and how many hours she was in chat and felt she was under paid.
The girl who worked at the agency my wife knew quit. She also said what a scam the agency was and reason she left. She even will tell how the interpretors were forced to write fake letters and engage in chat sessions (without cam) or they would be fired. She also stated the agency paid girls to chat on cam and none of the girls were serious. They applied to employment ads and not ads for meeting Men for a relationship.
My wifes profile was also up on HRB a year after she left. My wife had written to HRB several times and they would not remove the profile. It was not until she posted on a public forum (an older forum no longer around that Patrick use to go to) telling everyone on forum how they would not remove her profile to get HRB to finally take it down. It also took putting the link up to her profile on the forum to get it done so others could see.
While I cannot say all things going on there the above I witnessed myself and am married to a girl as well as know one who worked for this agency through HRB.
Now the above all applies to Orchid Agency. This was the actions of Orchid Agency and not HRB. But I will say that all was reported to HRB and nothing was done about it.
Direct questions for HRB and Manny. I'd like a serious response if possible. (Not 'it's better to feel loved, I guess').
How do you explain the barrage of chat requests and emails that cost credits to open that any man gets?
What is the incentive for women to desire to chat to men without being at all selective?
What is the incentive for a 19 year old extremely beautiful girl to intitiate chat with a below average in all aspects 60 year man?
-
Faux Pas:
Women are simply not paid to chat by HRB/RLM, and all HRB/RLM Agencies are forbidden to pay ladies to chat as part of an Independent Agency Agreement. I obviously cannot "guarantee" (nor would I take on THAT liability) that it has not happened. But I do NOT say this as any form of admission, OR as some "sneaky" way to attempt to "skate" the issue, but merely because it could happen and would be hard for us to prove, (unless we discover a chat or email "admission" on the site). I know that the majority of the so-called "complaints" about our company were "fabricated" by people who stood to gain financially by defaming us.
I can't say I have read many guys here on RWD complaining about HRB. I recall I've seen a couple guys come on and make one or two negative posts about them and then disappear. But, can't say I recall anything with meat-on-the-bones. Sculpco, I'd have to deeply discount his rants.
I went to the HRB web page and it looks like the regular dog-and-pony-show for the guys to ooggle and most suckers will pony up to chit-chat. I don't see anybody forcing them. Like with Aweb--they are just suckers with fantasies and they pay for their little fantasy.
Anybody have some real dirt on HRB or is this all just innuendo and 4th hand stories? :popcorn: Jooky seems to have some info.
-
Look at the activity of some of the ladies at your site. Some are on the computer at wee hours of the morning and stay on half the day. Do you want to know how real women in real life operate? They have a life and can't spend that much time on the computer. Join the free sites freepersonals.ru or Mamba.ru or the paid site bride.ru and you'll understand that the women at your site clearly behave much differently than at those sites.
BillyB, you would be surprised at the time single women and men (or the married ones for that matter :evil:) can spend at the computer.
If teenage gamers can sit until 4:00 AM on school days, so can young women sit in chat if they enjoy them selves. Being someone who used to sleep early I can tell that when I got my first serious date from the US on ICQ suddenly sitting until 2:00AM was not a problem.
Not all women have to sit in the office of the agency. ;D
-
I, facetrock am now a proud member of HRB with 50 hot credits in my pocket to blow like a drunken sailor on a Saturday night.
As soon as I finished my profile I was swamped with chat requests. Here are the gals.
Alion123 age 25
Sexyblon9 20
Tatyana24 24
Cheekyshy 19
Lio_Lia 22
Moonlight26 26
TanyaCute 23
Lyuduska 30
Your_Chance 20
HotCleo 27
OlgaSun 22
Dash1450 22
Anuta78 23
Katrinity 21
Bodylanguage 21
Esfera 18
Blondequeen forgot but young
Jannee 18
Lost Angel 22
Entrancira 19
_Lisa_ 20
Glow 32
Tanucheka 26
All this within 15 minutes.
I had a hard time keeping up writing them down so I might have spelled a few wrong.
Got a mail from Gingernat. Hot little number. 22 years old
Not bad for a 62 year old 5'5" 220lb bald Muslim guy who speaks Yiddish. I have a feeling no matter what I put in my profile these girls would still want to chat.
All the girls were very hot.
CEO, come on dude. You think this is all legit? You think these babes really want to chat with a guy like this? Your going to tell people here you dont think you have a problem with agencys paying these girls to sit and chat with men? I dont buy the "aggressive girl" crap either.
Spot me a bunch of credits and I bet after one or two chat sessions these girls would be telling Mr.Fatman they love him.
Sorry CEO, I think your site is in the same catagory as late night TV info commercials.
-
Jooky, you neglected to link the source of your quote: Here it is (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=11874.msg233634#msg233634).
Direct questions for HRB and Manny........
Why ask me? Ask the fellow whose business model you are critiquing.
-
CEO. I use several pay by the month sites that have chat also. The difference is that chat comes free with your monthly membership. There are thousands of hot young babes on those sites but its very seldom(cant remember the last time) they try to chat with a 50 year old guy like myself.
But on your site where I have to pay for chat they swarm around me like a stirred up beehive. Wonder why that is? Anyone here have a clue why that might be?? Anyone? Anyone?
-
Facetrock, how many of those girls are in Ukraine? 1 AM on a Saturday night. Young hotties have nothing better to do than chat with 60 year old fogies. :D
Why ask me? Ask the fellow whose business model you are critiquing.
Why ask you? Because the discussion was prompted by my response to your post and you are here defending and applauding this business model.
So what's your honest opinion? Or are you incapable of giving one?
You're saying this is all legit, so what's your explanation for what Facetrock just posted?
-
Oh man. Fat guys get all the babes.
Ladypassion just sent me a letter. Smoking hot 25 year old that would give any man an instant erection.
" Can you guess what is the most soft of my body is chocolate now?"??? Do you want to see????
"Waiting for your answer"
Oh man, Oh man. My fantasys are running wild.
Yup, totally legit dating site. No problems here.
-
No no! You got it wrong! It's the dirty old men that start erotic conversations, not these innocent bored young ladies! Just ask Manny and TomT.
:ROFL:
-
So you made a fake proflie but are too chickened to actually chat with the girls ? :evil:
-
I, facetrock am now a proud member of HRB with 50 hot credits in my pocket to blow like a drunken sailor on a Saturday night.
As soon as I finished my profile I was swamped with chat requests. Here are the gals.
All this within 15 minutes.
I had a hard time keeping up writing them down so I might have spelled a few wrong.
Got a mail from Gingernat. Hot little number. 22 years old
Not bad for a 62 year old 5'5" 220lb bald Muslim guy who speaks Yiddish. I have a feeling no matter what I put in my profile these girls would still want to chat.
All the girls were very hot.
CEO, come on dude. You think this is all legit? You think these babes really want to chat with a guy like this? Your going to tell people here you dont think you have a problem with agencys paying these girls to sit and chat with men? I dont buy the "aggressive girl" crap either.
Spot me a bunch of credits and I bet after one or two chat sessions these girls would be telling Mr.Fatman they love him.
Sorry CEO, I think your site is in the same catagory as late night TV info commercials.
Facetrock, Nice dude. They are HOT for you. Chat up Sexyblon9 or Janee since they're 18 and 20 and still up. They'll prolly stay up all night long waiting for you to chit-chat with your grandpa. So much for HRB and agency ethics. Just another fantasy-for-fools-operation. Gggeeezzzz. Ka....ching.
Never knew a 62 year old fat muslim/yiddish grandpa would be so popular. I guess there are no guys in the FSU for them and they're lonely for gramps.
On my honor these girls don't get paid...errr well not that I know of....uuummmm...3 strikes and they're OUT!!! Is this an ethical CEO or company? :rolleyes2: How hard is it for HRB to check out their chicks? :rolleyes2:
-
So you made a fake proflie but are too chickened to actually chat with the girls ? :evil:
Send him 50 bucks so he can pay for it. :evil:
I wonder how many are actually on video and how many are just text chatting at this hour.
-
I now see why you neglected to supply the link Jooky. At the bottom of that linked page is TomT -- during his HRB investigative period -- referencing PM's to the author, Ravens. Ravens is still active here having last logged in in October. Yet, that tale did not feature in Tom's final report did it? Tom was publicly chasing up a response to his PM to Ravens there. We don't know if the agency mentioned still even works with HRB do we? Lets wait and see.
In response to your other question, do we know if these women are all from one particular feeder agency or does the HRB system offer women from all over the network? What I am getting at is was Facetrock approached by these women all at home in different parts of the FSU (I am assuming Ukraine) or are they all apparently sat in one office somewhere at 1am? Also, how large is the network? How many women are listed? It looks like a minuscule percentage of women who obviously hit on new blokes right off the bat. Well, it is Ukraine. Is anyone honestly surprised by that?
Worst case scenario, a few pro daters from an economically impoverished place on the hunt for a few armchair wannabes in the US, perhaps hoping to divert them to their titty cam site. Hardly front page news is it? I imagine it would be quite hard to police. Common sense dictates that a few might slip through the net from thousands.
My understanding is that if a paying customer of HRB, you are paying them to facilitate contact. You are not paying them to vet women's individual motivations nor for a key to their chastity belt. Any reader of forums or of our book (shameless plug there) would know how to proceed on any site and how to sort the wheat from the chaff.
-
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!! Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!
Ladypassion wrote me back!!!!! And the promises she makes.
LIVE FROM FACETROCKS COMPUTER ITS THE Ladypassion show!!!!!!!!!!!
Her response:
" So you want to see where chocolate is on my body now? You can see me online in camera now and I will show for you...Ok
Wow, I have 5 more superhot women that just sent me letters.
Do you think these girls will be mad at me when they find out I am really 6'2" and 200lbs with hair instead of 5'5" 220lbs and bald? I need advice. I dont want to blow my chances.
-
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: ..."a few might slip through the net."
facetrock, let us know which one will be your bride.
-
Well Facetrock,you're no stud are you ? I logged into HRB last week,and had 36 chat invites within 5 minutes,all from sexy young ladies,some of which wanted to discuss matters of a sexual persuasion with me.Mind you,i am only in my fifties : )
Come on CEO,we've all seen the adverts asking for ATTRACTIVE women to work in local marriage agencies,English skills required,video chatting and writing to foreign men.If the adverts were for interpreters,why do the girls need to be attractive ?
Can you tell me why girls who have jobs,or are students,are online most nights from midnight till after 7am,on HRB if they're not getting paid ? When do these girls sleep,if they have other jobs ?
I can confirm that a girl from Kiev has told me that she,along with all the other girls in her local marriage agency office,gets paid to communicate with men.She is a Anastasia/Dream-Marriage hottie,but HRB/RLM uses the same agencies as those two,because i've seen girls on webcam at HRB and the other two sites at the same time.
-
Manny, I simply posted that quote from Ravens' post history. I didn't bother to read the thread and I didn't 'neglect' to link to it. :rolleyes2:
If Ravens didn't want to participate in TomT's charade, I don't blame him.
It looks like a minuscule percentage of women who obviously hit on new blokes right off the bat
Do you think any percentage would legitimately start sex conversations with the dude in Facet's profile?
Come on. Who are you trying to fool?
-
So, I signed up on RLM as a test and was immediately received 8 chat requests in the first 3-4 minutes of membership. As many say, it seems clear that it is what it is, suckers beware.
-
Twenty four year old Tenderlady4U just wrote me.
" I heard men love long hair on a woman...do you love it? Imagine us on a date..do you like plaits or when hair is just flowing? Or maybe it is better to pick them up so you can see my neck...:)
Oh you little tease. Your going to give this fat old man a heart attack fantasizing about your neck.
I am taking all my profiles off the other sites. No one ever writes first letters like that to me. Heaven
-
So Manny, I currently have 30 chat requests and a few emails just piled in. (I'm more popular than Ed).
Now explain to me how so many 'slip through the net' on the most monitored and validated site on the net, while I've NEVER had this type of response on any other site except for AWeb? :popcorn:
-
Twenty four year old Tenderlady4U just wrote me.
" I heard men love long hair on a woman...do you love it? Imagine us on a date..do you like plaits or when hair is just flowing? Or maybe it is better to pick them up so you can see my neck...:)
Oh you little tease. Your going to give this fat old man a heart attack fantasizing about your neck.
I am taking all my profiles off the other sites. No one ever writes first letters like that to me. Heaven
Good thing Manny had 2 of his guys investigate HRB and found them clean. Otherwise I'd wonder a little. I guess a couple more got through those nets.
-
Here's a letter from Vale-ri,aged 19,from Zaporizhzha,Ukraine,received on HRB today,totally unsolicited,complete with distinctive grammar.: ))))
"What will you if you see me nakked in your kitchen : )))
a) Take whipped cream and puuutt on my breazzttz
b) Smashed my bouddy with chhokolatte
c)Your option.You can tell me what you gonna go in chat now
Valeri
Lucky me eh ? : )))
-
Jooky you and Chelseaboy have more than me. But your not a 62 year old grandfather with an eating disorder with five kids who wants more.
Life is tough for us old guys.
Dancegir11 just wrote me. 18 years old, nice rack, but is writing me because she cant find a real man. Damn shame. Oh well, life goe on.
-
I don't believe you guys! TomT assured us that it was the dirty old creepy men that were starting this sex talk with the innocent legit young girls, and he did a thorough investigation. :rolleyes2:
-
Obviously TomT is full of BS
-
Good investigators!
-
What does 28 year old Sweetsecret mean when she writes a first letter like this.
" I know the recipe for love:
500grams of passion and 300grams of love,kisses and hugs to taste.
The dish is ready
Tip: Try for two in bed, preferably with me.
Would you?
Natasha
Oh baby baby baby. I think she is talking threesome here!!!!
I got a letter from 18 year old model type Vickabarbie. Poor girl cant seem to find a real man. I am sensing a pattern here. There seems to be a lack of real men in the FSU. All the rumors I heard of them being drunks and wife beaters must be true.
-
I asked the inspectors to create a profile and experience the site for themselves, but apparently was unethical as they didn't want to mislead these poor young ladies seriously searching for a good man. You guys are unethical. :(
Wow, Facet, sounds like a lot of slipping through cracks, I mean nets, at 2:30 AM on cold Ukraine Saturday night.
-
From Ammelie,20,Veseloyee,Ukraine ,again totally unsolicited: )))
Hello my cupcake.
In some cultures woman's nakked belly is ussed like a table dish : ))) think that it's great tradition,because what can be better to eat from the delisios woman's body ?? : ))
Would you like to eat from mine ?? : )))
Come to see my nakked belly on cam in 10 minutes.
Your delisious girl Nastenka
She's hot guys,so form an orderly queue please : ))
-
What's up with all this eating off a naked body? Is this some Ukraine tradition?
Or maybe these legitimate 'girls' are being coached?
-
Hey y'all,
This is growing into a full-fledged feeding frenzy complete with chum and teeth and blood.
I see TomT is making a rare, and welcome, appearance here at RWD - and that CEO is now logged off.
Let's slow down just a bit and allow folks some time to respond.
I know from personal experience how difficult it can be when there are a half-dozen (or more) members all posting questions and there is only one of me to respond - and I expect that may be how CEO is feeling at the moment. Having spoken with him in the past, I expect you will find he will reply in the near-term.
- Dan
-
Good thing Manny had 2 of his guys investigate HRB and found them clean. Otherwise I'd wonder a little. I guess a couple more got through those nets.
You neglected to mention there were also 49 pages on RUA asking for scam victims and apparently none came forward sans Sculpto so, there must not be any scams at HRB. Thats opinion and experience from credible people.
-
Hey y'all,
This is growing into a full-fledged feeding frenzy complete with chum and teeth and blood.
I see TomT is making a rare, and welcome, appearance here at RWD - and that CEO is now logged off.
Let's slow down just a bit and allow folks some time to respond.
I know from personal experience how difficult it can be when there are a half-dozen (or more) members all posting questions and there is only one of me to respond - and I expect that may be how CEO is feeling at the moment. Having spoken with him in the past, I expect you will find he will reply in the near-term.
- Dan
Dan,
I appreciate CEO even being here to respond and his answer to my question was a fair one but, it doesn't match what happens on the website. He did seem earnest in his response but again, his reply is polar opposite to the reality of HRB. Is he not accountable for his business, website and his postings here? He tossed the chum out there IMO ;D
-
Dan,
I appreciate CEO even being here to respond and his answer to my question was a fair one but, it doesn't match what happens on the website. He did seem earnest in his response but again, his reply is polar opposite to the reality of HRB. Is he not accountable for his business, website and his postings here? He tossed the chum out there IMO ;D
And mine was not a defense - merely a request to allow some time for replies. It is unlikely that anyone can sit on the PC constantly just to reply - and with the rapid-fire responses coming from several, it can be a bit overwhelming.
I see that both TomT and CEO are online now and composing responses.
- Dan
-
Let's slow down just a bit and allow folks some time to respond.
I'll leave my response till Mr 99.9% returns then...
-
I have been sitting here, going through endless edits, trying to figure out what to write to people who think that the presence of sex-chat girls on a site means that there aren't any marriageable women there. I settled for this: you are entitled to your opinions and it isn't within my purview to educate you, even if it were possible.
-
I have been sitting here, going through endless edits, trying to figure out what to write to people who think that the presence of sex-chat girls on a site means that there aren't any marriageable women there. I settled for this: you are entitled to your opinions and it isn't within my purview to educate you, even if it were possible.
LOL - yeah, that was the longest period of time I can recall seeing someone online and "Posting in . . ."
I can only imagine some of those edits that are on the cutting room floor. Would have been entertaining, at least.
- Dan
-
Yep, I decided to tone it down a bit.
-
Yep, I decided to tone it down a bit.
Where's the *fun* in that? 8)
And BTW - nice to see you wander over this direction. I thought you might have lost the way.
- Dan
-
Easy response... it's not the presence it's the preponderance.
CEO put down match.com as having sex-chat girls that lure men to open their wallet. Now you, who investigated HRB thoroughly have admitted that HRB has the same. The same thing that CEO said his system of monitoring and validation prevents.
Did you mention the obvious presence of sex-chat girls on HRB in your investigative report? I don't recall that you did.
You did however express your disgust with men who were coming on to young girls sexually when CEO shared private client chats with you. What do you expect on a site that hits you in the face with a bunch of young girls wanting to show you where they keep their chocolate as soon as you log in?
But ok. I'm done posting about this. My intention was to call out Manny for what I saw as a contradiction in his post, not to rehash this nonsense.
-
I suppose that my definition of "fun" has evolved a bit. Roasting people who make asinine, hysterical posts just doesn't float my boat anymore.
-
I have been sitting here, going through endless edits, trying to figure out what to write to people who think that the presence of sex-chat girls on a site means that there aren't any marriageable women there. I settled for this: you are entitled to your opinions and it isn't within my purview to educate you, even if it were possible.
TomT
I didn't read your investigative thread at RUA. Still, I can't imagine your nonchalant statement that men should sift through the sex chat girls. Is this really your position?
-
Jooky you and Chelseaboy have more than me. But your not a 62 year old grandfather with an eating disorder with five kids who wants more.
Life is tough for us old guys.
Dancegir11 just wrote me. 18 years old, nice rack, but is writing me because she cant find a real man. Damn shame. Oh well, life goe on.
You perverted liar! DanceGir11 wrote me less than two hours ago. Guess you're just not man enough for a young, innocent devushka who so desperately needs a father figure to make her love complete.
-
Ed. Your married. Stay away from my granddaughters :ROFL:
-
Faux,
Perhaps you might consider basing your query on my statement as it stands, not on a reworked version.
-
I am a bit hesitant to interject too much into this topic - for a number of reasons.
Still, there are several things that spring to mind, so I will post them - consequences (misinterpretations) be damned.
First of all - from the sound of it (FTR, et al - please correct me if I am wrong), it sounds like you guys are describing EXACTLY what we were attempting to explore (as in - identification of a SCAM using A-web) over in this topic -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=12304.0. Yes - or no?
Next - it seemed to me that TomT was making an extrapolation of something I have seen Jack and Kevin Hayes and Richard Wright (and numerous others) say for years - and that is; there are good girls in bad agencies, and there are bad girls in good agencies - and it has always been this way.
Third - I was struck by something Chelseaboy wrote upthread in this post -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=12651.msg249995#msg249995 - and the relevant comment was; "She is a Anastasia/Dream-Marriage hottie,HRB/RLM uses the same agencies as those two,because i've seen girls on webcam at HRB and the other two sites at the same time."
Jack made a comment not so long ago (not sure if he told me this privately or on RWD) that A-web had been threatening several (some - many?) of the local agencies who had been working with Jack to 'cut them off' (my paraphrase) if they continued working with Jack. I also caught wind of some other recent allegations directed toward A-web that would seem to indicate this is a common tactic by A-web and would, if true, have the effect of limiting the number of 'girls in common' shared by these agencies.
My point being to ponder the question of how much we all may be assuming.
OK - all for now.
I thought CEO was online, but looks like he may have logged off again. I still expect he will reply to your questions sooner rather than later.
FWIW
- Dan
-
What's up with all this eating off a naked body? Is this some Ukraine tradition?
Or maybe these legitimate 'girls' are being coached?
Maybe there is only one script writer on duty this evening at HRB and his imagination is limited.
-
Faux,
Perhaps you might consider basing your query on my statement as it stands, not on a reworked version.
TomT, reworked version? I have no idea as to what you are referring. Didn't I quote you directly from you own post? Did I miss one some place?
I have been sitting here, going through endless edits, trying to figure out what to write to people who think that the presence of sex-chat girls on a site means that there aren't any marriageable women there. I settled for this: you are entitled to your opinions and it isn't within my purview to educate you, even if it were possible.
TomT
I didn't read your investigative thread at RUA. Still, I can't imagine your nonchalant statement that men should sift through the sex chat girls. Is this really your position?
Please Tom, point it out if I did. I mean, you made the statement, didn't you?
-
What does 28 year old Sweetsecret mean when she writes a first letter like this.
" I know the recipe for love:
500grams of passion and 300grams of love,kisses and hugs to taste.
The dish is ready
Tip: Try for two in bed, preferably with me.
Would you?
Natasha
Oh baby baby baby. I think she is talking threesome here!!!!
I got a letter from 18 year old model type Vickabarbie. Poor girl cant seem to find a real man. I am sensing a pattern here. There seems to be a lack of real men in the FSU. All the rumors I heard of them being drunks and wife beaters must be true.
You must be weak facet, they're both writing to me also. Along with the following:
OLLYY
Brightnes
DanceGir11
Expected
Man up or you'll be the cameraman at someone else's threesome.
-
Ed. I feel old and weak now. But on the bright side I have 46 emails and only 3 are over 30 years old. Most are under 25. Can you beat that big guy?
-
Ed. I feel old and weak now. But on the bright side I have 46 emails and only 3 are over 30 years old. Most are under 25. Can you beat that big guy?
The girls are circling the weaker prey anticipating a kill?
I mean come on, I even put married on my profile.
Although now I discover that I have been logged off and can't seem to get logged back in. If I didn't know better, I'd say my ID was removed.
-
Well if you got booted its because you didnt spend 30 big ones like I did. Greedy man. I have a feeling my time will be short lived too. I wonder if I will get my money back if I complain about all the young stuff contacting me and the women stressing my heart with all the talk of threesomes and chocolate.
-
Well if you got booted its because you didnt spend 30 big ones like I did. Greedy man. I have a feeling my time will be short lived too. I wonder if I will get my money back if I complain about all the young stuff contacting me and the women stressing my heart with all the talk of threesomes and chocolate.
Aside from their attempts to satiate your desire for instant satisfaction, did you webchat with any women? That seems to be the sites core product or?
-
That seems to be the sites core product or?
Well, what you do think of this:
Both Manny and TomT seem to excuse the web cam girls asking for sex chat as the ones that 'slip through the net'.
At this moment there are 162 women are online and available to chat. That's out of 14,000 women listed.
Of those 28 are available for webcam chat.
Of those 10 are requesting chats with me (in addition to about 20 that don't have webcams).
Given those numbers, what conclusions do you draw?
For comparison, on a normal dating site, singles.ru, there are currently 618 out of 21,000 women online in Novosibirsk. Of course, none of them are messaging me with the desire to chat. :(
-
First of all, if HRB is primarily an entertainment site and the customers understand this and are enjoying it, I have no problem with it.
However, we're on a board that caters to men seeking wives.
A few things for Dan and others here to consider.
Considering that at any given moment approximately 20% of the online ladies are attempting to initiate chat with a single man online, what overall percent of the women online are doing so? This would be easy to determine.
If a man's initial experience with a site like this is to be bombarded with requests for light sexual chat, does this encourage sex tourism, discourage it, or have no effect?
If the site's core product is web cam chat, and the web cam chat involves prodding men into sexual talk, should this site even be discussed here? Should we also discuss more hard core porn cam sites?
Do you think that a site that floods men with messages from apparently hot and horny young women attracts the type of men that has resulted in the passage of IMBRA and further regulation of this industry? Or does it attract serious men looking for a wife?
Just some things to ponder.
-
First of all, if HRB is primarily an entertainment site and the customers understand this and are enjoying it, I have no problem with it.
However, we're on a board that caters to men seeking wives.
A few things for Dan and others here to consider.
Considering that at any given moment approximately 20% of the online ladies are attempting to initiate chat with a single man online, what overall percent of the women online are doing so? This would be easy to determine.
Perhaps try the same at a time when the women are supposed to be online, with a real profile and your own face. Then you can actually talk to them.
If a man's initial experience with a site like this is to be bombarded with requests for light sexual chat, does this encourage sex tourism, discourage it, or have no effect?
Supposed that you are a man like the majority here on RWD who understands the difference between a cam girl and a real woman, would you be even remotely interested in the women contacting you ?
On the other hand, how many of the 80% women that were online did you try to contact ? The number of RW that will take the first step to contact a man are a very low percentage, and you know that very well. One of the rules of the game is to be wary if a RW contacts you based on nothing, and that goes for any site you sign up with.
If the site's core product is web cam chat, and the web cam chat involves prodding men into sexual talk, should this site even be discussed here? Should we also discuss more hard core porn cam sites?
Is there on HRB a possibility to report inappropriate members or suggestions, and if there is, did you use it ?
Do you think that a site that floods men with messages from apparently hot and horny young women attracts the type of men that has resulted in the passage of IMBRA and further regulation of this industry? Or does it attract serious men looking for a wife?
It attracts alll type of men. The ones looking for a fantasy will fall for them, the ones looking seriously might try to search and contact women that interest them.
-
Sexual messages from horny young women attracts all kinds of men? Ok.
I can't believe that you're serious and not just playing devil's advocate. Sorry. :noidea:
-
Sexual messages from horny young women attracts all kinds of men? Ok.
I can't believe that you're serious and not just playing devil's advocate. Sorry. :noidea:
Did you look at their profile ? If yes you were attracted. :evil:
Same goes for all the other guys who tried.
Maybe it seems strange, but if you get such a message as marriage minded man, you just might get the idea that this woman is not directly looking for marriage. I know, hard to tell as it is usual for marriage minded women to send out such messages, but there is a tiny chance you might see the difference. ;D
It would be a lot harder to find if you got 10 messages from 35-year old women telling they would like to know more from you. Then you would actually have to start talking to them to find out if they are interested or not.
To conclude, as lure for men who are looking for marriage, these messages fail. The men reacting on them are not interested in marriage, so no harm to either side.
If the women and agencies involved would be running this to lure men in to thinking they are interested in marriage, they are using the wrong tactics. If they want to make a buck to weed out the horny guys who are just going in to look at young women, it is a clear success.
-
Sorry, you obviously are NOT a "domestic" online merchant with a "domestic" (and dedicated) processing relationship.
First,
1.) The Industry average (in THIS Industry) is in excess of 5% charge-backs! This is why THIS is "classified" as a "High-risk" Industry. Therefore, less than 1% would be unbelievable, but 0.01% is outstanding!!! Period! We are a highly sought-after merchant account...a low-risk account in a high-risk Industry. Simply Unheard of...so please don't make light of something you have no understanding of.
2.) It is NOT easy to reverse a chargeback. Quite the contrary!
3.) Furthermore, once a chargeback is "registered" against your account, even if it is ultimately reversed, it DOES NOT change your rating, as it is NOT removed from your "registered charge-backs". In other words, if you experience 5.1% in charge-backs in August, even if you (over the next two months) were successful in reversing those charge-backs, that DOES NOT change your score for August! Period!
4.) When someone buys a $30 credit package, and then we receive a chargeback, that $30 is removed from the account, along a with a $25 "charge-back fee", then we can invest more "man-hours" having someone build a "case" by assembling a "case file" of information (log-ins, IP addresses, usage, emails, sign-in acknowledgements, correspondence between Admin and the member, etc.) This costs at least $25 per hour to have a case manager perform the "due diligence". Then after all that, the customer's Bank can STILL (and usually DOES) decline to pay the charge. So, the $30 is removed AGAIN and ANOTHER $25 is also removed (the SECOND "charge-back" fee). So, it costs me (on average) the $30 in lost services (maybe $10 profit) and $50 in chargeback fees, and at least $25-$30 (minimum) in "man-hours"...for a total loss of approximately $100 ! And BTW, all this STILL negatively blemished our impeccable "chargeback" record. Why not just refund the $30 immediately, BEFORE it becomes a Charge-back? That's right ... "unsatisfied customers" usually charge-back! Duh!
5.) I know of NO other site in this Industry that enjoys a relationship with the #1 Bank and one of the top three "Domestic" (3rd Largest) processors for "Domestic" (United States) credit card processing. I would venture to guess that EVERY other site out there is forced to process "off-shore" in "high-risk" aggregate (group) processing accounts through "third-party" processors! As one of the only "stand-alone" Domestic credit card processing Merchants in this Industry, we jeopardize our processing relationship with the Bank if our charge-backs exceed a certain percentage in ANY given month. That's why I have always maintained a "refund first, ask questions later" policy.
6.) Anybody knows today that they can "effect" a charge-back through their Bank relatively easily. That's why it's currently referred to as "Friendly Fraud". Because it has graduated FAR beyond a valid "safe guard" for dissatisfied customers. It has become the new way to get 'free services'! Therefore, these days, your customer satisfaction rating IS premised on your rate of "Charge-backs"..NOT negative rumors and false complaints (initiated by unscrupulous competitors hiding behind fictitious names) and ultimately perpetuated by members of Forums (with "ties" to the Industry) who have never used your service.
7.) Any other site (and I repeat "ANY") in this entire Industry experiences a higher rate of Charge-backs than we do! So regardless of HOW you decide to "rate" customer satisfaction, you will find ONE thing to be as sure as life itself... the higher the rate of charge-backs, the lower the customer satisfaction... Period.
In closing:
I know (first hand) most of the Agencies that exist, as such, I have "inside" information as to how ALL other sites are run (not to mention how those Agencies operate). Regardless of inherent problems (as exist in EVERY industry), ours is (by far) the "safest bet" regarding Customer Satisfaction. That's why we're available 24/7 by "LIVE Web-Hostess", and 1-800-customer begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 1-800-customer end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 1-800-customer end_of_the_skype_highlighting service number...NOT some obscure email (like EVERY OTHER site out there)! Stop simply "bashing" and do some actual research.
Also, stop looking for perfection everywhere else, it doesn't exist. Nowhere, no Industry, no family, no marriage, nobody!
Look for the good in things, make the best of a situation, don't throw stones when you live in a glass house, don't bear false witness, etc., etc. Anyone, who is unhappy with our service has ALWAYS been no more than a simple FREE chat, toll-free phone call, or an email away from "satisfaction". However, we can't make a woman love you, and we can't convince all our customers to re-examine their expectations. Sometimes, all we can do is refund your money (so that your "experience" was at MY expense)! Just try to get a refund (or even a timely response) at ANY other competitor's site :-)
That was an incredible, well rehearsed rant from a man who obviously had many opportunities to refine the defence of his business model. It's obviously shabby as proved here in the posts between yours to me, and my response now.
Of course you'll have more tried and tested rebuttals to reel off... but if you have confidence in your 99.9% Client Satisfaction claim you'll be VERY interested to take me upon this offer.
How about we set up a survey on Survey Monkey, I'll pay the costs, and you can gain irrefutable proof that your 99.9% of your clients are happy with your service.
The questions will be fair and structured to get a meaningful result... and you can use the outcomes to further improve your business.
I don't mind if we agree on 100, 500 or 1000 names, you supply the email addresses and then we can agree on the question format.
You can be sure the survey will follow Best Practice methods to really understand how satisfied your customers are, what satisfies them, and what improvements you can make, if any. Of course at 99.9% Csat it's not likely you could improve anything, could you?
I provide a similar service for some of my customers, some of whom are in similar fields. I've got ~50 developers out of group headcount of 3,000 designing, building and supporting eCommerce and eBusiness sites among other things. Seen a few scams in my time, of course it'll be refreshing to poll your clients and find such a happy bunch of punters for a change.
PM me and we can get it going pretty quickly. I think Dan should be fine with us posting the results here...
-
If the women and agencies involved would be running this to lure men in to thinking they are interested in marriage, they are using the wrong tactics. If they want to make a buck to weed out the horny guys who are just going in to look at young women, it is a clear success.
You're joking right?
At any point did CEO or inspector Tomseau state that the web cam girls on HRB were intentionally planted in order to weed out the horny guys not interested in marriage?
I thought the web cam chats were intended to validate that these women were for real, not used as false lures to distract the non serious men.
If these girls are not marriage minded, what the heck are they doing on a bridal site? If they are not getting paid, they're not looking to get married and they're not interested in the men their luring to chat, why are they doing this? Out of the kindness of their own hearts to help their marriage minded friends?
-
Shadow,
I can confirm i have a real profile,with my real face on HRB.
I have chatted with webcam girls on the site,but there's no point asking them if they get paid to chat,because they're not going to say yes are they ?
At the end of the day,at least you know a webcam girl is real,and HRB have no more idea if she has serious interest in you,than you would have.HRB cannot be held responsible for a girls motives.
A lot of men on these sites are not seriously looking for a wife in FSU anyway,so i guess the sex chat girls are ideal for them.
Personally,my biggest concern on the site,as with other sites,is the amount of online chatters that are not on webcam,around 80% at any given time.To my mind the site should ensure that only girls showing on webcam are allowed to chat,and maybe that is one of the changes the CEO will be bringing in.Otherwise naive,gullible,whatever you want to call them,men,will continue to get fleeced by local agency staff pretending to be the girls in the photo's,which IS a scam.Online chatting is a big earner for local agencies,and the current system of non-webcam chatters leaves it open to abuse by them.
-
14000 marriage minded women on a videocam site? Yeah probably overrated.
250000 marriage minded women listed on agency sites? Yeah probably overrated.
100 marriage minded women invited to a social? Yeah probably overrated.
Tens of millions of marriage minded women walking the streets of FSU? Yeah probably overrated.
8 marriage minded women to 1 marriage minded man in FSU? Yeah probably overrated.
Many thousands of marriage minded FSU women in third countries, either working or visiting?
But guess what, it's not the vast numbers being offered but the one woman among them you might be able to 'click' with that counts.
Yeah, we can harp on any entity that comes on board to give it his best shot, but I still fail to see a great difference in results using any one method vs another.
None of the methods offered agree with me at all because they predicate marriage interest on both sides of the table before even meeting- something that simply does not happen in 'normal' life. I never went out of my 4 walls with the intent of marriage. I did however wander out to see if an interesting woman crossed my path for a little fun and adventure.
My vote goes to whatever floats your boat.
-
I examined the photos of the 40-something HRB women. Most seem authentic and somehat comparable to the same aged women at Elena's Models. In contrast, the 40-something women on Anasatasia Web are on average far better looking in their photos.
I consider that a positive point for HRB. Another positive point is the fact that CEO is participating at RWD.
However, I can not find another positive point. Jooky's observation is especially negative.
Both Manny and TomT seem to excuse the web cam girls asking for sex chat as the ones that 'slip through the net'.
At this moment there are 162 women are online and available to chat. That's out of 14,000 women listed.
Of those 28 are available for webcam chat.
Of those 10 are requesting chats with me (in addition to about 20 that don't have webcams).
Given those numbers, what conclusions do you draw?
For comparison, on a normal dating site, singles.ru, there are currently 618 out of 21,000 women online in Novosibirsk. Of course, none of them are messaging me with the desire to chat. :(
Where there's smoke, there's fire. In this case, sleaze. Imagine going to a singles meeting club in your city but having to maneuver around 20 hookers at the front door.
A man has a choice. Communicate with women through an agency filter. Or communicate directly with women with no agency involvement. Even when dealing with genuine women, the process is loaded with doubt and obstacles. Why add more?
I look forward to reading about CEO's plans for making this better.
Anyway... I told you (already) ... the entire problem has been solved/resolved, once and for all. All the Industry "woes" (along with the Industry) will pretty much disappear!
Again..... "stay tuned" :-)
-
Hello
this is my first post here and hope I am doing it right:- )
I've been searching the net and got on this page
To HRB/RLM SEO
Well, I am sorry to disappoint you, but if you think the problem was solved, I am sorry but you are wrong
I am not accusing you or supporting
. We are in the same boat, just like all website owners
I came across this page and couldnt help but register here
I run my own site, I will not mention it here
and for me the biggest problem is local agencies
. I dont believe that any site owner would like to have scammers in their data base
the problem is that you can not really check them out
.
Local agencies, for biggest part, are like locust that move from one site to another destroying everything. Ive become a paranoid lately checking the local agencies we work with
.
But its getting more and more difficult
. We have about 40 agencies in our database, and you have I guess thousand:- )
if you deleted 700 and still have so many girls on your sites
so, I can not imagine how you control them
Their scamming schemes become more and more complicated
As an example:
A Few months ago Ive deleted an agency --their translator pretended she didnt speak English, invited men to her town and came to the meetings with her girl-friend who was a translator. Men paid for translation and the money was shared.
One of the guys she met, wrote me a letter. He said that somehow he found out that she speaks English like an American but in her profile it was stated that she knows only simple words. I started digging. I even registered on a Russian network site to find her. ( as I said, Ive became a paranoid:- ) I found out that the girl studied in the Gorlovka university of foreign languages, but the agency owner tried to convince me that she studied Ukrainian language there. I called the girl and she was so offended by my accusation. A couple of days later the agency deleted her profile, as they explained she was not interested in Internet dating anymore, she was offended, insulted, bla-bla-bla. I checked other sites, and her profile is still there!!! To make the long story short, I made a request to the Gorlovka university and received confirmation that she studied English there!!!...and then I got to find out that she works as a translator in this agency. The agency was deleted
but they work on other sites
If the agency scams, the site goes to the black list for this, the site deletes the agency from their database, and the agency goes to many other sites
. or some time later tries to register with you under different name...
it happened that I deleted an agency for dishonest work and several months later I received a note from an agency with different name that wanted to cooperate
of course they were honest and brought many people together
. I recognized them only when they started registering new profiles
. I recognized the girls and deleted them again.
After all these stories I stopped registering the new agencies
. I am just afraid of them
and to be honest, I am stuck
I really dont know how to solve this problem. If you think that agreement between you and the local agency is enough, I am sorry, but you are wrong
fines? - doesnt work! Deleting them- doesnt work
:wallbash:
-
Hello Sabina
Welcome to the forum,and yes the translation scam is one of the commonest scams run by these local marriage agencies.I was due to meet a girl earlier this year in Ukraine,and as soon as i told her i had an interpreter for us,she started making excuses for not meeting in the city we had agreed on,suggesting we should meet in another city,with her interpreter,so i never flew to meet her.
Another very common situation is where men go to meet an agency girl they've communicated with for months,and when they meet the girl knows nothing about them.Strangely,the interpreter does know everything about the man,so i think it's safe to say who has been reading and writing the letters,and chatting without webcam.So,the man has flown thousands of miles,and spent a lot of money,basically to go on a blind date,with a girl who probably has no real interest in him.
It will be interesting to finally see the changes in the industry,mentioned by the CEO of HRB/RLM,which will solve all these problems with corrupt Ukrainian marriage agencies.
If you think about it,would one of these corrupt agencies want to see their popular girls getting married to a foreign man ? Of course not.Think of the revenue through letter writing, chat,translation fee's etc they'd lose,so they have no interest in seeing these girls getting married.
-
Oh,by the way,the girl i was going to meet is on HRB/RLM,among other sites.
-
Sabina. HRB claims to have dumped 700 agencys and has about 140 they use now. I didnt think there were ever that many agencys in the FSU.
My question to you is what does it take to become an agency? Do you go out and recruit 50 to 100 goodlooking women then contact someone like you or HRB or yourself to get signed up?
I would say most of these new agencys are strictly set up as affiliates for the bigger agencys. If what I think is true going on over there these people wouldnt even need a website. They would need a stable of good looking babes that are available to chat and write a few letters. Easily done from your flat. Get signed up to all the bigger agencys and it could be very lucrative for a local person especially if you paid the girls to pursue anyone online to chat.
We always thought pay per letter was just inviting yourself to get taken for a ride which proved to be true in many cases. Now we have live video where you pay by the minute. IMO it involves a lot more money and the temptation is very high to pay girls to chat. HRB claims to have suspended 700 agencys. Thats proof enough that its a huge problem.
-
First of all, if HRB is primarily an entertainment site and the customers understand this and are enjoying it, I have no problem with it.
However, we're on a board that caters to men seeking wives.
A few things for Dan and others here to consider.
Considering that at any given moment approximately 20% of the online ladies are attempting to initiate chat with a single man online, what overall percent of the women online are doing so? This would be easy to determine.
If a man's initial experience with a site like this is to be bombarded with requests for light sexual chat, does this encourage sex tourism, discourage it, or have no effect?
If the site's core product is web cam chat, and the web cam chat involves prodding men into sexual talk, should this site even be discussed here? Should we also discuss more hard core porn cam sites?
Do you think that a site that floods men with messages from apparently hot and horny young women attracts the type of men that has resulted in the passage of IMBRA and further regulation of this industry? Or does it attract serious men looking for a wife?
Just some things to ponder.
Jooky,
All good points to ponder. Thanks.
Re: hard core porn. You might get a kick out of this post over at PL -- http://www.planet-love.com/forum/index.php?topic=5758.msg71090#msg71090 - where I have been battling whore-mongers since the day I took over the site.
RWD, just as you stated, is a site for men and women who are serious about finding, marrying, and staying married to - a partner from the countries of the Former Soviet Union and its 'satellites.'
As I was reviewing the comments from you guys that registered accounts at HRB, it seemed a replay of a topic I linked upthread, and here again -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=12304.0.
I *really* urge you all to review that topic. In it, the conclusion was reached that A-web's practice of bombarding new registrants with 'emails' and chat requests is NOT scamming behavior. There may well be scamming behavior by A-web, as indicated by Chelseaboy upthread where the lady he believed he had been communicating with knew nothing about him. That, to me, seems pretty scurrilous - but this other - the unsolicited chat requests and emails?!? I still place that in the same category as the unsolicited Nigerian scam emails I used to receive.
At the time I posted that topic, it was an outgrowth of several previous topics, one of them found here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7756.msg150354#msg150354 - that sought to explore the same fundamental issue - and that is; What constitutes scamming behavior by an agency?
So tell me - ANYONE - what do we (RWD) need to do to be able to:
(a) adequately define the constituents and the composition of a "SCAM" so that it will be understood by all? Is that possible - or not? We have made several 'runs' at it - and it continues to be a point of endless debate.
(b) investigate these reported SCAM agencies to determine if they cross the letter of the upcoming definition of a SCAM?
I look forward to your thoughts and comments.
- Dan
-
You're joking right?
At any point did CEO or inspector Tomseau state that the web cam girls on HRB were intentionally planted in order to weed out the horny guys not interested in marriage?
I thought the web cam chats were intended to validate that these women were for real, not used as false lures to distract the non serious men.
If these girls are not marriage minded, what the heck are they doing on a bridal site? If they are not getting paid, they're not looking to get married and they're not interested in the men their luring to chat, why are they doing this? Out of the kindness of their own hearts to help their marriage minded friends?
There is always a difference between intnention and reality. You should know that. ;)
Lets face it, the majority of men who dwell on to the large agency sites are not exactly the cream of the crop. Now lets suppose that you are a legit agency, and you have connected. After a week your staff tells you that half of the women want to quit because of men who ask them to show their body on cam. What are you going to do ?
You can either refuse paying clients because of their behaviour, or provide them with something that will take their attention meaning your real candidates can get valid contacts.
Now I do not know directly how agencies or HRB handles those things, but I am trying to look at it from a business point of view, not forgetting that we all know a large majority of men are just enjoying to pay for their fantasy and will never be able to live it.
-
So tell me - ANYONE - what do we (RWD) need to do to be able to:
(a) adequately define the constituents and the composition of a "SCAM" so that it will be understood by all? Is that possible - or not? We have made several 'runs' at it - and it continues to be a point of endless debate.
(b) investigate these reported SCAM agencies to determine if they cross the letter of the upcoming definition of a SCAM?
I look forward to your thoughts and comments.
- Dan
First, objectivity is needed. Members at RWD represent only a very small subset of of the overall RW 'thing'. What applies here may not necessarily apply to the 99% of folks (both men and women) out there using such services.
Second, create a baseline of activities and practices of the industry so that attempts can be made to measure abnormal activity. Remember though it's not about what we at RWD agree with or not, that's irrelevant in the overall scheme of things.
Last, activities or practices of individual industry providers need to be measured to see if they exceed the baseline or if the practices are outside the norm. Only then should they be evaluated to determine if they are clearly deceptive or construed to separate the client from his/her money without any value in return.
Take as an example the instant email responses Jooky and others experienced. Certainly an annoyance or 'red flag' for the experienced around here, but does it have value for the 99% of others 'out there'? Lets take the worst case scenario, a couch bound individual lacking the social skills and self image to initiate any type of interaction with the opposite sex. Lured by RW related hype he/she signs up to this video site. Isn't it logical to think that a little motivation will be required to overcome this individuals inhibitions and actually participate in a webchat? Remembering that the number of such individuals vastly outnumber the posting membership here, does the practice of sending initial unsolicited responses truly constitute a scam and presents no value to the customer? Is this practice unique to a single or small number of service providers?
Another example. An individual signs up for VidWebFSUSeriousRelationships.com. When initiating a chat session, the customer is redirected to XXXVidWebFun.com where a number of partners offer explicit sex shows and honor the tokens the customer bought at the other site. This occurs several times. The customer emails the provider for a refund and is refused because the Terms of Service were not violated. The practice was noted only at a small number of providers offering relationship introduction services.
I am not endorsing the services of any service provider, but instead provoking broader thought as to what a SCAM is or not. How many times have disappointed men shown up at RWD to have their 'My wife SCAMMED me!' story picked apart, ultimately revealing there was nothing close to a SCAM involved? Shouldn't we approach this subject in the same objective and informed manner?
-
Like many, I don't care what services some individuals seek on the Internet. My sole concern lies with the portrayal of sites like HRB/RLM and others of their ilk as legitimate sites for those pursuing serious relationships. They do nothing illegal (as far as I know) yet they are not focused on the subject which (supposedly) most of us are interested in on this forum.
My username and ID seem to have been deleted after I began posting what I was encountering. My wife laughed and said she thinks we're all pretty silly for even remotely considering this site as being intended for serious individuals in search of serious women to date and developing a relationship.
-
I actually have nothing against Hot Russian Brides other than the word Brides in their name and what it implys. They serve a good purpose keeping the keyboard Romeos busy playing with themselves. But seriously guys does anyone really think this is a good place to look for a wife? I mean you really do get bombarded with very young chat girls everytime you sign on. Not to mention the chocolate :P To the naive bride seeker this will reinforce some stereotypes and can do a lot of harm to some people. Little wonder people looking for wives get pissed when they go to meet a gal they've been chatting with just to find out she has no clue who he is.
If they changed their name to Hot Russian Babes, got rid of any pretense that this is a good place to find a wife all would be ok with me. If they want to call it a great meeting place fine with me. But for gods sake dont imply that all these young hotties are really serious about old horn dogs like me.
Manny said it was a simple case of a few prodaters up late at night swamping me with chat invitations. Total bullsh1t and he knows it. Why is it that on LuckyLovers, RussianEuro, UkraineDate when I sign in I dont get flooded with chat invitations and there's more women online there than on HRB? We all know why.
On RUA this was discussed to death. I read the thread and there were more guys than Scuplto bitching about the site. But you had TomT and Andrewfi pushing for HRB. They both got a trips to Florida and after they came back it was like they had a religious experience. CEO admitted he was trolling for investors on RUA for another business which could possibly make a person 250k per month. Anyone like carrots?
Personally I think the trips to Florida were more about investment than they were about investigating HRB. I have no problem with that and hope the guys involved make millions, I really do. But please guys stop the lame arguements why HRB is a good place to find a wife. Good place for meeting young FSU hotties, absolutely. Good place for entertainment, one of the best. Good place to find a wife, no how no way.
-
Like many, I don't care what services some individuals seek on the Internet. My sole concern lies with the portrayal of sites like HRB/RLM and others of their ilk as legitimate sites for those pursuing serious relationships. They do nothing illegal (as far as I know) yet they are not focused on the subject which (supposedly) most of us are interested in on this forum.
My username and ID seem to have been deleted after I began posting what I was encountering. My wife laughed and said she thinks we're all pretty silly for even remotely considering this site as being intended for serious individuals in search of serious women to date and developing a relationship.
Your wife is right. HRB is an aggregator with all kinds and all flavors and I'm sure they take in wads of money from tens of thousands of guys. I've read a few guys who have admitted to spending 1,2,3,4 grand chatting on HRB/RLM and they must have enjoyed it because they kept on buying tokens. Were they scammed--they were enticed for sure. I see it more of a soft core porn chat site designed for lonely men and it is very cleverly designed and I can see some guys getting hooked on it. There are worse "scams" out there afterall these guys paid and kept on paying for a little private fantasy...a little titillation. They got the entertainment they paid for. Sure they were sucked in but they'd get sucked in by something else 'cuz they are so needy. :evil: Suckers are born every minute.
HRB does seem to fill a need for some guys and I'm sure plenty of FSU chat girls are making a good buck fulfilling fantasies.
No guy with brains would be looking/spending time at HRB looking for a wife. On the other side of the coin I'm sure that not ALL the women are paid chatters and some are probably very nice. Yet, here at RWD, with it's specific mission focus of marriage, I find HRB to be sleazy and doesn't belong. :rolleyes2: Brides?????
Its sites like HRB/RLM that give FSU women a bad name. People get the impression that ALL FSU women are soft/hard/porn fantasy girls. Certainly portrays FSU women in a negative way.
-
First, objectivity is needed. Members at RWD represent only a very small subset of of the overall RW 'thing'. What applies here may not necessarily apply to the 99% of folks (both men and women) out there using such services.
Second, create a baseline of activities and practices of the industry so that attempts can be made to measure abnormal activity. Remember though it's not about what we at RWD agree with or not, that's irrelevant in the overall scheme of things.
Last, activities or practices of individual industry providers need to be measured to see if they exceed the baseline or if the practices are outside the norm. Only then should they be evaluated to determine if they are clearly deceptive or construed to separate the client from his/her money without any value in return.
Take as an example the instant email responses Jooky and others experienced. Certainly an annoyance or 'red flag' for the experienced around here, but does it have value for the 99% of others 'out there'? Lets take the worst case scenario, a couch bound individual lacking the social skills and self image to initiate any type of interaction with the opposite sex. Lured by RW related hype he/she signs up to this video site. Isn't it logical to think that a little motivation will be required to overcome this individuals inhibitions and actually participate in a webchat? Remembering that the number of such individuals vastly outnumber the posting membership here, does the practice of sending initial unsolicited responses truly constitute a scam and presents no value to the customer? Is this practice unique to a single or small number of service providers?
Another example. An individual signs up for VidWebFSUSeriousRelationships.com. When initiating a chat session, the customer is redirected to XXXVidWebFun.com where a number of partners offer explicit sex shows and honor the tokens the customer bought at the other site. This occurs several times. The customer emails the provider for a refund and is refused because the Terms of Service were not violated. The practice was noted only at a small number of providers offering relationship introduction services.
I am not endorsing the services of any service provider, but instead provoking broader thought as to what a SCAM is or not. How many times have disappointed men shown up at RWD to have their 'My wife SCAMMED me!' story picked apart, ultimately revealing there was nothing close to a SCAM involved? Shouldn't we approach this subject in the same objective and informed manner?
A very well written post BC, if I may say so.
But please guys stop the lame arguements why HRB is a good place to find a wife. Good place for meeting young FSU hotties, absolutely. Good place for entertainment, one of the best. Good place to find a wife, no how no way.
How do you explain all the married folk that met through HRB then?
-
Actually I believe that on any site you can meet serious women, even on those made out to be a complete scam site. Apart from being married, I am too greedy to spend the amount of money needed to find needles and preferred a hay stack in open field.
On the free and semi-free sites I used I also got contacted a number of times by women that I would not expect to be interested, and most turned out to be dubious in nature.
So what is the difference ? I guess the main difference is that on sites like HRB and A-Web men pay to check out dubious contacts, while on a free site it is not considered negative due to the free nature of the site. One would think that when spending money people choose more carefully, but the opposite seems true.
-
Where are all these married couples? I see far more complaints than marriages. The claims that have been made how well policed HRB is there should be more marriages coming from that site than anyother. CEO himself says they are the leader of all the big agencys as far as keeping things honest.
Manny would you honestly send someone that is seriously looking for a bride to HRB? If you answer yes then my next question would be how much money are you investing?
-
I know a guy engaged to a woman from RLM. We'll see how it turns out. However, that's just one example so not really a definitive answer as to their effectiveness.
In the end, the site is what it is. Look at it and make your own decision. Our "discussion" isn't really going anywhere now and all it really does is keep their name up.
Those of us who are serious know better than to recommend it. Those that aren't will continue to use it and recommend it to their buddies.
I'm letting it go.
-
I'd like to dredge up something Dan wrote on (what is now) another topic.
Over the years I have seen many MANY *MANY* guys who come to RWD (and/or elsewhere) screaming at the top of their lungs about how bad agencies are because they charge a 'fee' for a taxi or an apartment or a cellphone or . . . you get the idea. The simple facts are - a bunch of guys, and I do mean a BUNCH, are cheap. Pure and simple - they are CHEAP. They expect to get something for nothing - and they scream bloody murder if a service provider charges the most modest of mark-ups. This happens ALL THE TIME. Get a clue. There is probably nobody in this business who is in it for altruistic reasons. Everyone is in it to make a $$. Everyone. That is really bad news for the cheap bastards who count every penny and agonize over every dime. While there is nothing wrong with being frugal and responsible - the ones I am referencing (and like I wrote - there are a BUNCH of them) take this way over the line and are irrational and unrealistic about the financial aspects of this pursuit.
He is bang on the money there. Time and time again I see people agonizing over spending a few dollars. Guys used to book my wife for a 30 minute three-way-translated-call and try and take 40 minutes. Many of the guys who arrive on forums soon become obsessed with free sites. The thought of spending a few bob pains them. A guy told me a while ago that our book was too expensive at $29. Ye gods, $9 of that is postage! :P My wife laughed her head off when I told her and said "Another greedy-free one? I won't work for him"
Believe it or not, women are not obsessed with free sites. Most sites are free for women. Most women are concerned with keeping the whack jobs at arms length. That is best done using an agency of some kind. Whack jobs abound in this industry. That isn't a secret to the women y'know. They know that! Women don't want greedy (read cheap-assed) men.
Now look at the HRB model as it is discussed here. We know already that only about 5% of men ever get on a plane. That leaves 95% as wannabes and Keyboard Romeos. These women discussed above vacuum up the 95% and syphon off those who have money to burn to discuss licking chocolate off their popka. Why not? Go on any free site and the professional women are there too. Are those men who enjoy that happy with what they get?
they must have enjoyed it because they kept on buying tokens.
That says HRB are giving most paying clients what they want. That isn't just a theory; correlate it with the low charge-backs they get. Numbers don't lie.
Sensible men can see past all that stuff and go and find the marriage minded women there. Again, the numbers tell us there must be some because many people seem to be married. TomT saw the scrap book he described to be "like a telephone directory".
5% of serious men will do their homework and understand how this stuff works. Many of those will end up married.
Many men will agonize over spending a few dollars. I would be surprised if HRB even wanted those guys as clients. No business wants screamers who cry "scam" after spending $50. Those guys should stay on the free sites dreaming and/or spouting their stuff here. Its cheaper than actually getting on a plane eh guys?
Another group who have actually been on the plane, yet remain perpetually single, will lecture us all about how it "should be done". It didn't work out too well for some of them, but here they are with a four figure post count pecking at their keyboards slamming people who own these sites. Can they do better? Can they develop a better platform? Can they design a scam-free system where every knuckle shuffler hiding in Momma's basement gets himself a size zero supermodel wife? Of course not; or they would. Its easier to try to peck holes in others' business models from behind a keyboard isn't it?
People who run these sites are not running Sunday Schools. They need to pay the hosting bills, the translators, the staff in two (or more) countries, property costs, fund their systems and future development, pay taxes, card processing fees, every level of bureaucracy that is fired at businesses, and then seek a profit on top of that. Anyone who doesn't run a business really doesn't know the half of it.
As I said up thread, if you don't like the business model, use another service provider. There are several models to choose from. Simply because you don't like the business model doesn't make a site a "scam" site. It simply makes it not a site for you.
-
Actually Manny I agree with almost everything you said. Plenty nutjobs out there and lots of cheap men. How would I create an agency with full services that would appeal to most of the seriously searching 5 percent? Simple, I wouldnt and cant and neither can anyone else for the plain fact there really is no profit to be made. Many have tried and no one has really had much success. Some survive but I bet its really a tough pull.
What I am simply saying is that sites like HRB do serve a purpose to the 95 percent of men who dont get on a plane. But to the five percent that do make the trip and do some research it becomes very evident these sites cater to the 95 percent and lean towards the whatever percentage that enjoys hot chat with cute young gals. I have no problem with that.
Most of the 5 percent end up on pay by month sites like Elenas, RussianEuro or free sites like Mamba or Freepersonals.ru. They dont want the hassle of 60 requests for chat and a 100 emails in one day from girls 30 plus years younger. Or they might find some small mom and pop agency in the middle of Russia. I do believe these tiny one town local agencys have a lot of value for a guy.
The thing is no one knows who the 5 percent will be when they start out. Many men try it for a month or two just out of curiosity. Thats how I started but got lucky when I stumbled on the old RWG forum. I believe the men who end up traveling has a lot to do with the way they start out. They get on a good site with few scammers and make a connection that 5 percent could turn into 15 percent. If they get taken for a ride in fantasy land buying credits til the cows come home most in my opinion would give up.
Then there is the man who does the research before he commits to an agency or site. I would say these guys have at least a 50 percent travel rate and I wouldnt be surprised if most of them learned from places like this.
-
Paying more should come with extra value.
What's the extra value with HRB? They claim it's a better monitoring and policing to enough a dating environment safe from scammers.
The evidence reveals the opposite. Their system encourages feeder agencies to mislead men in order to profit from them. You can call that a scam or not, up to you. Apparently some of you think it's ok to take advantage of someone if in your opinion they are 'knuckle shufflers' or 'losers'. For me misleading someone is misleading them, regardless of who they are.
The real extra value is false attention from young girls for men some of you label as 'not the cream of the crop'.
For serious men, this is not extra value. It's an additional hurdle.
So why pay more to add the additional hurdles of 'separating the wheat from the chaff' and not being able to directly communicate?
These hurdles hardly exist at other sites such as bride.ru, luckylovers, Elena's, Russian dating sites, freepersonals and many other small agencies and sites discussed here. For the serious man, why pay more for less value. It's moronic.
I remember the days when guys like Manny and TomT would insist that direct communication was key. After Manny became part of the business and TomT interacted with HRB, they've been 'enlightened'.
Now if RWD is a site for so called 'sex tourists' and guys that want to have fake soft core sex chat, by all means let's recommend them HRB and AWeb. I have nothing against that type of entertainment. I have nothing against strip clubs. I have nothing against prostitution either and I'm glad that it's legal in my State. If the CEO would admit that his site is primarily a charade for entertainment, like a strip club, I have nothing against his business model.
But to claim that the purpose of the web cam girls is so that men can validate that they're talking to real (implied sincere, not just physically real) women is pure bull. Do any of you honestly believe that?
If the RWD is a site for serious men, I don't see how anyone here can recommend sites that restrict direct communication.
Sure, you can find a wife anywhere. There are guys here that have met their girlfriends or wives on actual porn sites. I had a smoking hot tall blonde model type, highly educated, 17 years younger than me fly to California on her own dime to meet me after a 10 minute phone conversation. I could have married her in a heartbeat. When I flew out to meet my girlfriend in person she had never even seen my photo. I don't relate or recommend what happened to me because it's an extreme long shot. So, sure, 'anything is possible', but it's not helpful to recommend that men to go directly for that long shot. This search is is hard enough as it is.
When guys are here prodding men by calling them cheap if they don't use long shot methods that add additional hurdles, don't allow direct communication and cater directly to the guys seeking cheap sexual fantasies, we all know why. It's all about the pounds. Ka-ching!
-
TomT, reworked version? I have no idea as to what you are referring. Didn't I quote you directly from you own post? Did I miss one some place?
Please Tom, point it out if I did. I mean, you made the statement, didn't you?
My statement refers to my frustration with critical non-thinkers who find some scammers on a site and assume that there is nothing of value there. Just to be clear, I didn't bother to look for scammers because there are scammers everywhere. Finding a few dozen or a few hundred on HRB would be neither surprising nor remarkable. Y'all know that the whole friggin' FSU is corrupt, don't ya? (If you don't, you're dumber than dirt.)
I have no intention of wasting my time opening letters from girls, or chatting with girls, with chocolate-covered boobs and butts. If anyone thinks that it's productive to do so, however, then knock yourself out.
-
Most women are concerned with keeping the whack jobs at arms length. That is best done using an agency of some kind.
Most women are perfectly capable of recognizing whack jobs on their own and are equally capable of keeping them at bay without the help of an agency.
Whack jobs abound in this industry. That isn't a secret to the women y'know. They know that! Women don't want greedy (read cheap-assed) men.
This again ::)
Those guys should stay on the free sites dreaming and/or spouting their stuff here.
Free sites worked fine for me :popcorn:
As I said up thread, if you don't like the business model, use another service provider. There are several models to choose from. Simply because you don't like the business model doesn't make a site a "scam" site. It simply makes it not a site for you.
Sure, but there is no reason to whitewash potentially questionable practices :popcorn:
-
Just to be clear, I didn't bother to look for scammers because there are scammers everywhere.
The main complaint against HRB has been about scams... and you 'didn't bother to look for them'? Yet you concluded that there was no scamming. Very sharp.
At one given time: 28 women on web cam chat. 10 of them targeting a single man with light sex chat. How many are targetting other men with the same? Clearly more than the third targeting one man. It'd be easy to find out. If your 'core product' is false chat targetting dummies, where's the value for a serious marriage minded man?
Tom, you 'investigated' a product without even trying out the product. Great 'critical thinking'. :P
Are you next going to tell us Pepsi is better than Coke without tasting either?
Come on, Tom. You must realize how completely silly your 'investigation' looks to anyone who is not in on the take or 'dumber than dirt'.
-
Simply because you don't like the business model doesn't make a site a "scam" site. It simply makes it not a site for you.
I agree with you. In the past it is apparent that a number of men were taken for a ride. The men were encouraged to spend more than reasonable. Perhaps men communicated with fake photos, perhaps they communicated only with an interpreter writing fiction, perhaps they were given a "bait and switch" when they did make the trip, etc.
How many men? CEO says he uses a "three strikes and you're out" rule. He has banned 700 agencies. That sounds like 2,100 legitimate complaints. I consider that large.
CEO states that these past problems are now resolved. If so, it is unfair to call HRB a scam site.
-
Manny, I don't know your mission statement at RUA. However, I find some of your statements running counter to a mission of helping marriage minded men.
That says HRB are giving most paying clients what they want ... Numbers don't lie.
These "paying clients" simply don't know of a better option.
Many men will agonize over spending a few dollars. I would be surprised if HRB even wanted those guys as clients.
Agree. HRB wants the easily duped who are willing to spend money.
Sensible men can see past all that stuff and go and find the marriage minded women there.
So what! I assert that it is easier with sites such as EM, Russian Euro, Lucky Lovers, etc. Why "easier?" At EM, et al a man is not constantly bombarded by professional daters, paid chat girls, etc.
As I said up thread, if you don't like the business model, use another service provider. There are several models to choose from.
Manny, in my opinion HRB is a RW introduction site where a serious man could spend upwards of a few thousand dollars and get the same result as spending $99 at EM. Do you agree? If so, I don't understand how you and your RUA can lend support to HRB if your mission is about helping marriage minded men.
And please dont tell me that the HRB video cam is an advantage and that the HRB RW are vetted. The HRB touted video chat can be done for free with EM women via Skype, Yahoo, etc. and a man can be certain the EM woman is not paid to chat and is not communicating with multiple men at the same time.
-
Paying more should come with extra value.
What's the extra value with HRB? They claim it's a better monitoring and policing to enough a dating environment safe from scammers.
The evidence reveals the opposite. Their system encourages feeder agencies to mislead men in order to profit from them. You can call that a scam or not, up to you. Apparently some of you think it's ok to take advantage of someone if in your opinion they are 'knuckle shufflers' or 'losers'. For me misleading someone is misleading them, regardless of who they are.
The real extra value is false attention from young girls for men some of you label as 'not the cream of the crop'.
For serious men, this is not extra value. It's an additional hurdle.
So why pay more to add the additional hurdles of 'separating the wheat from the chaff' and not being able to directly communicate?
These hurdles hardly exist at other sites such as bride.ru, luckylovers, Elena's, Russian dating sites, freepersonals and many other small agencies and sites discussed here. For the serious man, why pay more for less value. It's moronic.
I remember the days when guys like Manny and TomT would insist that direct communication was key. After Manny became part of the business and TomT interacted with HRB, they've been 'enlightened'.
Now if RWD is a site for so called 'sex tourists' and guys that want to have fake soft core sex chat, by all means let's recommend them HRB and AWeb. I have nothing against that type of entertainment. I have nothing against strip clubs. I have nothing against prostitution either and I'm glad that it's legal in my State. If the CEO would admit that his site is primarily a charade for entertainment, like a strip club, I have nothing against his business model.
But to claim that the purpose of the web cam girls is so that men can validate that they're talking to real (implied sincere, not just physically real) women is pure bull. Do any of you honestly believe that?
If the RWD is a site for serious men, I don't see how anyone here can recommend sites that restrict direct communication.
Sure, you can find a wife anywhere. There are guys here that have met their girlfriends or wives on actual porn sites. I had a smoking hot tall blonde model type, highly educated, 17 years younger than me fly to California on her own dime to meet me after a 10 minute phone conversation. I could have married her in a heartbeat. When I flew out to meet my girlfriend in person she had never even seen my photo. I don't relate or recommend what happened to me because it's an extreme long shot. So, sure, 'anything is possible', but it's not helpful to recommend that men to go directly for that long shot. This search is is hard enough as it is.
When guys are here prodding men by calling them cheap if they don't use long shot methods that add additional hurdles, don't allow direct communication and cater directly to the guys seeking cheap sexual fantasies, we all know why. It's all about the pounds. Ka-ching!
Jooky,
I see two distinct paths emerging from your argument. One if the issue of "direct communication" and the other is the issue of what I will call "chat girls". Beginning with the first:
>>I remember the days when guys like Manny and TomT would insist that direct communication was key.<<
And if you look to the RWD "10 Commandments" (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?pid=2) towards the top of our site AND in the left frame, you will see # 3 states:
Work to eliminate any agency from your communications.
As you probably know, IMBRA has created a complexity in achieving this by mandating the IMB/agency be interjected into the communications for some time (reference IMBRA Flowcharts here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/docs/IMBRA%20Flowchart_files/IMBRA%20Flowchart_frames.htm).
It is no longer as simple as saying; "Get the agency out of the picture ASAP" like it used to be - AND - I should point out that Tahirih was surprised when I told them that IMBRA had created a "license to steal" for some of the agencies (I was thinking of A-web at the time). They (TJC) fell victim to 'the law of unintended consequences' and were genuinely surprised, and unhappy, at this revelation - though not prepared to suggest changes to IMBRA to correct it.
Further, it is either naive (and I know you are not) or disingenuous to form the foundation of your argument on the point of "direction communication." For years the mantra of RWD, and RWG before us, and RUA when you and Don founded it, and dozens of other pundits - to promote the importance of direct communication. Nothing has changed DIRECTIONALLY. What *has* changed - and it is undeniable - is that legislation driven by feminist (or protectionist - depending on your POV) now impedes, at least, the direct communication that was available in years past.
And yes, I recognize you are quite adept at working around those impediments - and others here at RWD are quite helpful in navigating guys around those impediments - but to suggest the impediments do not exist or that IMBs/agencies should not follow the legislation is VERY poor counsel, indeed.
>>Now if RWD is a site for so called 'sex tourists' and guys that want to have fake soft core sex chat...<<
Upthread I already addressed this 'question'. Why are you now repeating it when the answer was already provided? Are you making an accusation, or do I need to repeat the answer, or what?
>>If the RWD is a site for serious men, I don't see how anyone here can recommend sites that restrict direct communication.<<
Where did you see a recommendation? There *has* been a repeated call for our members to be more definitive about what constitutes a "SCAM". BTW - did you read those two earlier topics I linked upthread? You participated in at least one of those earlier topics - and, as usual, made excellent points. It would be worthwhile, if you have not, to review those two topics - one of them is pretty current and they both address this very same issue.
If you go to this topic -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=12304.0 - and then navigate to about half-way down page 4 and read through to mid-way through page 7, and you will find a LOT of discussion/debate on these very points. Also, pages 4 and 5 of this topic -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7756.0 should provide additional useful background and perspective.
>>Their system encourages feeder agencies to mislead men in order to profit from them.<<
I assume you mean the HRB "system." How do you KNOW this?
- Dan
-
These women discussed above vacuum up the 95% and syphon off those who have money to burn to discuss licking chocolate off their popka.
Is this intentional?
Does HRB intentionally use these women to syphon off the non serious clients to protect the marriage minded women from them?
That's what you're saying. That's NOT what CEO has said.
That says HRB are giving most paying clients what they want. That isn't just a theory; correlate it with the low charge-backs they get. Numbers don't lie.
People do lie. People do lie about numbers. You are in the business. Tom and Andrew were wined and dined to 'investigate' HRB and didn't bother to review the actual product. CEO is understandably protecting his own business. None of you are impartial or credible sources.
The low chargebacks are due to their policy. There are no chargebacks allowed and it's very clear in their terms of service. There is also no reason to believe that the CEO has access to compare chargeback information with his competitors, especially sites run overseas.
-
It is no longer as simple as saying; "Get the agency out of the picture ASAP" like it used to be
Yes it is. It's easier than ever. The goal is to meet real, sincere women and find a wife, right? This can be done easier these days without an agency. Agencies are not required at all.
Those in the business don't like it. They think tougher restrictive legislation is going to help them control and profit from their male clients. And you blame the feminists for all of this. Ha ha. Good one. Talk about naive.
but to suggest the impediments do not exist or that IMBs/agencies should not follow the legislation is VERY poor counsel, indeed.
I haven't suggested either. These exist for International Marriage Brokers. They do not apply to other methods of meeting women including what I most recommend, just go there.
Elena's models complies with IMBRA in a straight forward manner without monitoring and restricting direct communications. Why can't other agencies follow suit?
Russian dating sites, dating sites that provide equal services at equal cost for men and women and social networks do not fall into the category of an International Marriage Broker. Now, you may have insider info about legislation that might change this, but it hasn't changed yet. I have insider info from the people that actually process K visas.
Their system encourages feeder agencies to mislead men in order to profit from them.
I assume you mean the HRB "system." How do you KNOW this?
Simple logic. If a small local ageny profits by misleading men with their web cam girls, there is motivation for them to do it. Read Sabina's post above.
What do you think is the motivation for all the web cam / chat 'girls' that barrage a man with sex talk as soon as you log into HRB?
Do you think they are misleading men or not?
Do you think they are motivated by profit or not?
If they are not motivated by profit either for themselves or their local agency, what is the motivation?
I don't buy the 'these women are bored' bull*snip*.
-
Yes it is. It's easier than ever. The goal is to meet real, sincere women and find a wife, right? This can be done easier these days without an agency. Agencies are not required at all.
Those in the business don't like. They think tougher restrictive legislation is going to help them control and profit from their male clients. And you blame the feminists for all of this. Ha ha. Good one. Talk about naive.
I haven't suggested either. These exist for International Marriage Brokers. They do not apply to other methods of meeting women including what I most recommend, just go there.
Elena's models complies with IMBRA in a straight forward manner without monitoring and restricting direct communications. Why can't other agencies follow suit?
Russian dating sites, dating sites that provide equal services at equal cost for men and women and social networks do not fall into the category of an International Marriage Broker. Now, you may have insider info about legislation that might change this, but it hasn't changed yet. I have insider info from the people that actually process K visas.
Simple logic. If a small local ageny profits by misleading men with their web cam girls, there is motivation for them to do it. Read Sabina's post above.
What do you think is the motivation for all the web cam / chat 'girls' that barrage a man with sex talk as soon as you log into HRB?
Do you think they are misleading men or not?
Do you think they are motivated by profit or not?
If they are not motivated by profit either for themselves or their local agency, what is the motivation?
I don't buy the 'these women are bored' bull*snip*.
>>Yes it is. It's easier than ever. The goal is to meet real, sincere women and find a wife, right? This can be done easier these days without an agency. Agencies are not required at all.
Those in the business don't like. They think tougher restrictive legislation is going to help them control and profit from their male clients. And you blame the feminists for all of this. Ha ha. Good one. Talk about naive.<<
OK - I missed your point earlier then. You are essentially lobbying for guys to move away from the IMBs altogether - in favor of the Russian social networking sites. Do I have that correct now?
>>I haven't suggested either. These exist for International Marriage Brokers. They do not apply to other methods of meeting women including what I most recommend, just go there.<<
In this context, when you write; "just go there" do you mean just travel there? If so, there are many of us here at RWD who would concur - and we did just that.
>>Elena's models complies with IMBRA in a straight forward manner without monitoring and restricting direct communications. Why can't other agencies follow suit?<<
I suppose because John Adams is not Elena Petrova - nor is Mike Krosky. They all have their own 'approach' to this - and some are, as we have seen, more prone to criticism and suspicion than others.
>>Simple logic. If a small local ageny profits by misleading men with their web cam girls, there is motivation for them to do it. Read Sabina's post above.<<
Motive alone is insufficient to assign guilt. It *may* be (and often is) sufficient to assign suspicion. Some of the problem is that suspicions build in the absence of countermanding evidence - and yet, to be truly guilty evidence of having committed the offense should be shown. When people begin to declare guilt solely on the basis of suspicion - as happens all too often - they are acting irrationally.
>>What do you think is the motivation for all the web cam / chat 'girls' that barrage a man with sex talk as soon as you log into HRB?
Do you think they are misleading men or not?
Do you think they are motivated by profit or not?
If they are not motivated by profit either for themselves or their local agency, what is the motivation?
I don't buy the 'these women are bored' bull*snip*.<<
I am going to AGAIN refer you to those earlier topics. I could repeat them here, but why? The answers to those question were already asked, answered, and to the extent possible - resolved.
- Dan
-
OK - I missed your point earlier then. You are essentially lobbying for guys to move away from the IMBs altogether - in favor of the Russian social networking sites. Do I have that correct now?
Although I agree with the 'you can meet someone anywhere' comments, in essence, yes.
I think it's better to meet women on a more equal playing field like a dating or networking site, or in real life where if they're not interested there is no incentive from the system for them to pretend to be.
In this context, when you write; "just go there" do you mean just travel there?
Yes.
As I explained in my PM 'nuff said.
-
Manny, in my opinion HRB is a RW introduction site where a serious man could spend upwards of a few thousand dollars and get the same result as spending $99 at EM. Do you agree? If so, I don't understand how you and your RUA can lend support to HRB if your mission is about helping marriage minded men.
And please dont tell me that the HRB video cam is an advantage and that the HRB RW are vetted. The HRB touted video chat can be done for free with EM women via Skype, Yahoo, etc. and a man can be certain the EM woman is not paid to chat and is not communicating with multiple men at the same time.
Gator, the purpose is not to "lend support" to HRB, but to lay out the facts for people to make their own judgements.
The RUA thread was originally some posters complaining/questioning HRB's business model.
There have been a good number of posts there from many different angles, and HRB has answered some of the criticisms.
You neglected to mention there were also 49 pages on RUA asking for scam victims and apparently none came forward sans Sculpto so, there must not be any scams at HRB. Thats opinion and experience from credible people.
As FP has pointed out, there doesn't seem to be much direct evidence (other than sculpto) of deliberate fraud or scam by HRB.
From my own point of view, I would suggest that anyone wondering about HRB should read both threads and make up their own mind.
Does HRB deserve the "Scam" label that some have given it? (as per Dan's definition of scam)
Probably not.
Now would I personally spend $1,000 or $2,000 on video chat with some girl that I'd never met?
Pretty darn unlikely.... :cluebat:
Read the thread(s). Judge for yourself.
Caveat emptor
-
I, facetrock am now a proud member of HRB with 50 hot credits in my pocket to blow like a drunken sailor on a Saturday night.
As soon as I finished my profile I was swamped with chat requests.
Wonder why that is? Anyone here have a clue why that might be?? Anyone? Anyone?
Don't spend too much money to prove a point. Hope the sensible people will listen to reason. If a guy's not smart enough to listen to reason, he can pay money himself at HRB/RLM and use the datings sites I mentioned earlier to learn how women act at HRB/RLM compared to women in real life. Any experienced forum member who read enough over the years and recommends those sites(HRB/RLM) to newbies is a FOOL.
If men want sex and porn, they can find prostitutes and porn sites easier than signing up for HRB/RLM. Why do guys sign up for Hot Russian BRIDES or Russian LOVE Match? What are HRB/RLM advertising when you look at their site? Sex and a Porn fantasy.. or LOVE and a BRIDE?
Sensible men can see past all that stuff and go and find the marriage minded women there.
What'ss the unsensible "stuff" to you? Men who sign up at a site to look for love or a bride shouldn't have to filter out the agency tricks. How many people knowingly would hire a company to deliver them a service and get robbed? Intelligent men fresh off a divorce have a hard time learning how to catch a woman again let alone distinguish the sincere from the insincere women. The agency games of some of those big agencies is just another thing that hurts their chance for success and to top it off, they're paying for that crap.
-
What's a "Russian Bride"?
-
The main complaint against HRB has been about scams... and you 'didn't bother to look for them'? Yet you concluded that there was no scamming. Very sharp.
Your disingenuous cherry picking has been noted. You read my thread elsewhere and should have known that I wasn't looking for individual scammers; I was checking for consistency in CEO's story and verifying that he kept his promises to me and to his clients. (There was and he did, respectively.)
I can't help but notice that you skirt any issue that works against your argument, such as the corruption in the FSU. You don't say much about clients taking personal responsibility for their actions, either. Nor do you address the issues that prevail amongst many "bride" seekers. Instead of dealing with important core issues, you go for tabloid sensationalism and blame CEO for not doing more to protect clients against themselves. It's a pity that you didn't expend as much energy searching for good women on the database in question.
-
Motive alone is insufficient to assign guilt. It *may* be (and often is) sufficient to assign suspicion. Some of the problem is that suspicions build in the absence of countermanding evidence - and yet, to be truly guilty evidence of having committed the offense should be shown. When people begin to declare guilt solely on the basis of suspicion - as happens all too often - they are acting irrationally.
I wouldn't say those people are acting irrationally. If lots of people on the internet say there are crazy people in a forest that hurt those who enter, you may say those that make the accusations without hard proof on the internet are acting irrationally but the truth is you will tell your family not to go in there based off those "irrational" people's claims. Deep down if enough people say it and if you can verify the people in the forest aren't normal, you may believe they can hurt you and your family even without proof.
With HRB/RLM people can do what facetrock did for proof to verify the ladies over there aren't normal compared to ladies at free sites or other paid sites where a guy can send endless messages to ladies without a fee per message. The ladies at free sites certainly have no motivation to sit there forever and chat with men.
I have never paid money for chat girls who talk sex take off their clothes. I have never seen those women receive a paycheck but it's safe to assume they get paid. Am I irrational for thinking that way without hard proof?
HRB/RLM girls don't take off their clothes but they act the same way as those porn girls in that they give endless amounts of attention to men regardless on how the men look. Sincere women, not controlled by agency strings, looking for a relationship will be much more selective and use her time wisely when writing men. Their behavior will be much different. I guarantee a handsome man will receive less attention from ugly women on the free dating site Mamba.ru than an ugly man will receive attention from model quality women at HRB/RLM. In the real world most women will reject most men's advances. Most women will not write a man first. It's opposite at the HRB/RLM world. I'm not going to prove scam but can anybody prove that HRB?RLM ladies are no different than the ladies at agencies and free sites that have good reputations? People get paid cash in the FSU. It'll be hard to find a pay stub from a video chat girl but anybody can do the test facetrock did for verification that something isn't normal there.
-
With HRB/RLM people can do what facetrock did for proof to verify the ladies over there aren't normal compared to ladies at free sites or other paid sites where a guy can send endless messages to ladies without a fee per message. The ladies at free sites certainly have no motivation to sit there forever and chat with men.
Perhaps the free sites have changed from my days, but as I already noted I di get unsollicited contacts that were dubious to say the least.
CE has made it clear that the contracts forbid women to get paid, this would mean that the motivation for the women would not be different at all. And just in case the men here never noticed, there are women who like sex talk as much as men, and some of them will be up at 2:30 in the morning.
The call out for scam has about as much foundation as when an Arab dressed in traditional clothes with a backpack is attacked for being a terrorist. Its about appearance without any investigation.
-
Errr Shadow,
In case you missed my post earlier on,MANY women on HRB are online chatting from midnight to past 7am in the morning,3 or 4 nights a week.Is that normal behaviour for women,that also claim to have jobs,or be students.When do they sleep ?
It seems like they're working night shifts on the chat to me,either from local agencies,or they're homes,catering to the American market.Around 80% are not on webcam,so i strongly suspect they are agency workers posing as the women in the photo's.Why is that NOT a scam ? Can anyone tell me,why it's ok for money to be taken from men under false pretences,when agency workers chat to men,pretending to be the hottie in the profile photo's ?
-
Perhaps the free sites have changed from my days, but as I already noted I di get unsollicited contacts that were dubious to say the least.
Let's have some proof!!!! I don't need proof to know it's happening. There's a big difference between individual scammers writing men or using profiles for scam compared to the actual site working against you.
And just in case the men here never noticed, there are women who like sex talk as much as men, and some of them will be up at 2:30 in the morning.
Sex talk with men they are actually attracted to floats some of their boats, not to every man.
At 2:30 AM in the morning metro is closed, buses stopped running. Dangerous for a single woman to catch a taxi to get home so they can't go home just yet so they all sit at the agency stuck and just have to talk to men? Convince me most model quality girls pay for their ride to the agency, starved for male attention, and out of any time of day they choose the wee hours in the morning to communicate with every and any man.
I know you're married but ask permission from your wife and do some research. I have not done research myself but this is a no brainer.
-
As FP has pointed out, there doesn't seem to be much direct evidence (other than sculpto) of deliberate fraud or scam by HRB.
From my own point of view, I would suggest that anyone wondering about HRB should read both threads and make up their own mind.
Does HRB deserve the "Scam" label that some have given it? (as per Dan's definition of scam)
Probably not.
Now would I personally spend $1,000 or $2,000 on video chat with some girl that I'd never met?
Pretty darn unlikely.... :cluebat:
Read the thread(s). Judge for yourself.
Caveat emptor
Voyager
My remark (FTR) was a facetious remark to Manny based on his inference that neither I nor some of these others who question CEO's assertion or TomT's findings on the practices of HRB. I find the knowledge and experience of those posting in this thread sufficient and those people knowledgeable. All of us have ample experience in this endeavor and quite frankly all are intelligent enough to know that when we're wet, if it's raining or we're getting peed on.
I am quite surprised by Manny's and apparently now Dan's defense of HNB's practices. I apparently in my naivety were of the belief that while promoting West/East marriages it is quite "okay" to promote soft porn and sex chat on the side. Sculpto is a clown and accident looking for a happening as are many who look to the East, myself included but, he may on been on to something many of us overlooked because of the messenger.
While many in this pursuit abhor the sex tourism that goes on, I do not see that as realistic. It's a lifestyle that many, many people live both, male and female. I could be guilty of it myself on a local level during 18 years of bachelorhood.
It's not "okay" IMHO to promote finding wife material ladies and sifting the sex chat girls at the same time. Not speaking for these other guys here as they can speak for themselves. But, if we as self proclaimed advice giver's on seeking FSU woman give the stamp of approval on such practices, we are no different than sex tourist that flood in to the FSU everyday and we are not only encouraging it, we are promoting it too.
If HRB wishes to dabble in the sex industry fine, have had it and I wish them well but, separate the MOB business. Their ads and websites claim marriage minded ladies, men looking for them get bombarde with FSU whores. Most serious men, even if they are only 5% or less of HRB's overall business, do not wish to chat with whores while looking for a wife. To promote such should be condemned but, instead seems to be met with "oh it's okay because most men never get on a plane". I call a big steamy BullSh!t on that line of thought.
-
Tom, when 30% of the online webcam girls are targetting a single man, we're not talking about 'individual scammers', we're talking about the 'core product' of the site.
Ok, so your 'investigation' was for your own personal reasons, unconnected to the main complaints against the HRB system. That was not my impression.
Regarding what are 'core issues' for you.
Corruption in the FSU. In brief, I don't think corruption in the FSU is much more than in the US. In fact, I've seen far more corruption in California. This is a whole other topic.
Relating corruption to this topic, HRB's system is one that invites corruption and profits from it (fake webcam girls rake in profits, or do you disagree?).
I don't blame CEO for this corruption but as I've stated before and as Sabina pointed out above, he can't control it and like it or not, it helps line his pockets.
Take another site like bride.ru or Elena's models. What about smaller agencies? Where's the barrage of fake intro emails? Some do slip through the cracks, but in general it's not there because their systems do not welcome this corruption as much as HRB's.
About client's responsibility: I do think clients should be responsible. I don't pity the fools who use these sites. Nowhere have I posted that the CEO should refund his clients or anything to that effect. If you're a fool enough to be taken advantage of, accept the responsibility, but it does not excuse the person that took advantage of you. I don't see this as a core issue.
About issues the prevail amongst 'bride seekers', it's unclear what you're saying. Are you referring to the fact that many 'bride seekers' are 'knuckle shufflers', 'losers', 'My Mother Dropped Me on My Head!s', 'social misfits' or whatever you want to label them? Well, what about it? I think everyone deserves a bit of love and happiness. Nobody should be taken advantage of regardless of their stupidity or lack of social skills. The perceived 'quality' of these 'bride seekers' is irrelevant in my opinion.
It's a pity that you didn't expend as much energy searching for good women on the database in question.
I'm not sure what you're implying here. Please explain.
Honestly, although I like to think of myself as experienced, I wouldn't know where to begin to navigate the mess of a site like HRB and I'll explain why:
If I was a 60 year old short fat below average social misfit, then no way in hell would these women be contacting me first. However, I'm none of the above (aside from being a bit of a misfit). Of the hundreds of women that have tried to initiate contact with me on HRB, there are none that are 'out of my league' when compared to women I have actually dated. On a normal dating site I have been contacted by beautiful women up to 18 years younger than me, but it doesn't happen every day!
I could believe it my profile occasionally caught the eye of a pretty girl. But on HRB, they are not contacting me. They are contacting everyone.
So, how would I go about finding a serious woman? Well, I could ignore all incoming introductions. I might miss out on a few sincere ones, but not many. So I start making contacts. How do I know these girls are not the same ones that are spamming someone else with talk about bums and chocolate? I don't. Should I avoid women more than 10 years younger than me? Should I avoid girls with sexy photos? Should I approach the girls with web cams or avoid them? On the one hand I can see they are real. On the other hand it seems these are the ones luring suckers with their sex chat.
And then I'd think to myself... Why am I torturing myself with all of this? On a normal dating site I can initiate contact with any woman that catches my eye. If she's a hooker or fake profile leading to a porn site, I'll know with the first response (which by the way has never happened to me). If she's not interested she won't write back. If she writes back there is some initial interest. The best thing we're in direct contact right away. Ah, breath of fresh air. Nice and simple.
Now that's my style. I never wanted to 'expend energy' searching for the right woman. I wanted to communicate and enjoy.
Now that I've addressed your core issues I'd like to ask you a few direct questions.
Do you recommend HRB as a good site for a serious man to search for a wife?
Do you recommend HRB over other sites such as bride.ru, Elena's Models, Freepersonals.ru, Lucky Lovers or Russian dating sites? If yes, why? Please keep in mind that all these sites allow the exchange of direct contact information.
HRB comes at a much higher cost than the other sites I listed. What higher value (if any)does HRB provide for this additional cost?
The HRB newbie experience was detailed in this thread. Basically, once you sign up you are flooded with emails and chat requests from all sorts of young and pretty women. It appears that the majority of online women at any given time are sending these requests.
In this situation, how would you advise someone without experience to navigate this and instead find 'good women in the database'?
What rules would you have someone follow in order to do so? (For example: Should they ignore all women that initiate first contact? Should they avoid a certain age difference?)
Edited to add: I can't write S R M here. It was replaced (you'll see where). Hilarious. :P
-
Gator, the purpose is not to "lend support" to HRB, but to lay out the facts for people to make their own judgements.
Fine, except I am surprised by the specific individuals on opposite sides of the debate. And I find the substance of some pro HRB arguments to be a stretch, frankly insulting my logic.
And I have dismissed the checkered history of HRB because the CEO assures us that those issues are now resolved (Mr. CEO, I am still staying tuned for details). And I also dismiss the titillation because a normal man will serious intentions will probably not be distracted for more than a few lusty moments.
Now would I personally spend $1,000 or $2,000 on video chat with some girl that I'd never met?
Pretty darn unlikely.... :cluebat:
Especially if you can video chat for free by eliminating the agency from your communications. The savings would pay for a trip. Which is better: hours and hours of video chat or even more time spent face to face?
-
Instead of countering the negative points made about HRB, will someone please list the positive points for using HRB.
I appreciate three comparisons:
- HRB vs agencies such as EM,
- HRB vs. free dating sites used by Jooky,
- and HRB vs. personal agents (e. g., Eduard).
In reading Jooky's recent post, I see that he is asking TomT for such.
-
Instead of countering the negative points made about HRB, will someone please list the positive points for using HRB.
I appreciate three comparisons:
- HRB vs agencies such as EM,
- HRB vs. free dating sites used by Jooky,
- and HRB vs. personal agents (e. g., Eduard).
Gator-
Will this be strictly based on the baseline that all the men are decent, honest, dedicated, rational and don't have an ounce of fleshly desire and legitimately just want to meet a sincere woman?
-
Voyager
My remark (FTR) was a facetious remark to Manny based on his inference that neither I nor some of these others who question CEO's assertion or TomT's findings on the practices of HRB. I find the knowledge and experience of those posting in this thread sufficient and those people knowledgeable. All of us have ample experience in this endeavor and quite frankly all are intelligent enough to know that when we're wet, if it's raining or we're getting peed on.
I am quite surprised by Manny's and apparently now Dan's defense of HNB's practices. I apparently in my naivety were of the belief that while promoting West/East marriages it is quite "okay" to promote soft porn and sex chat on the side. Sculpto is a clown and accident looking for a happening as are many who look to the East, myself included but, he may on been on to something many of us overlooked because of the messenger.
While many in this pursuit abhor the sex tourism that goes on, I do not see that as realistic. It's a lifestyle that many, many people live both, male and female. I could be guilty of it myself on a local level during 18 years of bachelorhood.
It's not "okay" IMHO to promote finding wife material ladies and sifting the sex chat girls at the same time. Not speaking for these other guys here as they can speak for themselves. But, if we as self proclaimed advice giver's on seeking FSU woman give the stamp of approval on such practices, we are no different than sex tourist that flood in to the FSU everyday and we are not only encouraging it, we are promoting it too.
If HRB wishes to dabble in the sex industry fine, have had it and I wish them well but, separate the MOB business. Their ads and websites claim marriage minded ladies, men looking for them get bombarde with FSU whores. Most serious men, even if they are only 5% or less of HRB's overall business, do not wish to chat with whores while looking for a wife. To promote such should be condemned but, instead seems to be met with "oh it's okay because most men never get on a plane". I call a big steamy BullSh!t on that line of thought.
>>now Dan's defense of HNB's practices.<<
What "defense"?!?
I *thought* my posts were aimed at; (a) taking yet another 'run' at trying to define what is - and what is NOT - scamming behavior, and (b) recognizing that IMBRA mandates IMB interaction that was NOT necessary pre-IMBRA (for those who use an IMB), and (c) stating that mere suspicion of guilt is NOT the same as determination of guilt.
I'll ask yet again - have you read the topics linked repeatedly upthread? They were posted PRIOR to this current debate, and they should provide a great deal of helpful context. At a minimum, it may aid those who participated in both (or all three) topics to not contradict themselves.
- Dan
-
Edited to add: I can't write S R M here. It was replaced (you'll see where). Hilarious. :P
ROFLMAO
Jooky - when RWD was first getting running and RWG was going strong and SmoothOperator was promoting his acronym list at RWG, there were guys coming over and insulting a bunch of our members with his garbage acronyms, so I set the word censor to replace a couple of them.
I distinctly recall Manny being REALLY *REALLY* upset with me the first time he encountered that one you just found - probably because it surprised him - as it just surprised you. That particular word censor probably hasn't been invoked in 2 or 3 years - till today.
Sorry about that.
- Dan
-
Instead of countering the negative points made about HRB, will someone please list the positive points for using HRB.
I appreciate three comparisons:
- HRB vs agencies such as EM,
- HRB vs. free dating sites used by Jooky,
- and HRB vs. personal agents (e. g., Eduard).
In reading Jooky's recent post, I see that he is asking TomT for such.
Sounds like a good 'ol-fashioned 'competitive analysis' and one that SHOULD be prepared.
I envision a table with attributes on one side and various purveyors across the top (EM - HRB - Eddie - A-web - Etc.), with checkmarks or notes in the intersecting cells to address their conformance to those attributes (or maybe a graded scale if not a Boolean checkmark).
Maybe start with the ACoE to help form the list of attributes?
- Dan
-
HRB/RLM girls don't take off their clothes...
In the interest of historical accuracy, some Hot Russian Brides did take off their clothes during video chat. They were removed from the database, though. If CEO had been thinking only about the financial angle, he would have let them stay. I'm sure that they were a big hit with the viewers.
-
Gator-
Will this be strictly based on the baseline that all the men are decent, honest, dedicated, rational and don't have an ounce of fleshly desire and legitimately just want to meet a sincere woman?
Even Jimmy Carter had lust in his heart. :D
But yes, the goals are 1) connect with women who have a sincere interest in the man as a possible husband and 2) learn enough about each other to justify a trip. Goal #2 would have two variants: VO and VM (one needs to know less to justify a VM trip).
-
In the interest of historical accuracy, some Hot Russian Brides did take off their clothes during video chat. They were removed from the database, though. If CEO had been thinking only about the financial angle, he would have let them stay. I'm sure that they were a big hit with the viewers.
How did HRB discover that the women disrobed?
Very few RW would do this, yet I have encountered a couple of such RW who voluntarily initiated this and are sincerely interested in marriage. They enjoyed their sexuality and I guess they want to be sure that the man is comfortable with it. However, to get to this point took many, many sessions (free, of course).
-
GQ, you definitely need to cross rational off that list. :P
Ok, we could also start with this question:
Does anyone here have any doubt that the girls spamming Facetrock and others are not false lures trying to drum up business?
If you think that these girls with their sex chat invites might be truly interested in the profiles Facetrock and others posted as a potential husband, please raise your hand.
This question goes out to everyone, especially those defending HRB's business model.
-
Even Jimmy Carter had lust in his heart. :D
But yes, the goals are 1) connect with women who have a sincere interest in the man as a possible husband and 2) learn enough about each other to justify a trip. Goal #2 would have two variants: VO and VM (one needs to know less to justify a VM trip).
I don't mean to be contrarian (although I may be for even saying this) but who determines that? How does one make the distinction of what makes a man presumably 'honest' and 'sincere' if you don't really know the man? Is giving a benefit of doubt to someone enough to classify anyone' honest' and sincere'?
Do we classify someone as a honest and sincere man because he prohibits himself for swimming in the sheets, or forego the process of shacking up just because it's available and enjoys the bounty along the way?
It's been said that only 5% of the men (I don't know how folks determined that percentage) actually make the trip. Does this automatically make them honest and sincere? My opinion on that is - 'no'.
Moreover, I know a 61 yo man here in LA who married a 31 yo Ukrainian woman who was a video gal and yes, she admits to doing it as 'work'. They divorced after 3 years and he was the one who initiated the divorce. It turned out he was addicted to suscribing to videocam and continued to do so after getting married. Was this a scam?
When do honest 'bride-seekers' get to be held accountable for their actions?
-
If you think that these girls with their sex chat invites might be truly interested in the profiles Facetrock and others posted as a potential husband, please raise your hand.
Please, not raise the hand! Just have them grunt, otherwise they would need to stop masturbating. >:(
Actually, I ignored the false lures in deciding about HRB. I also ignored the complaints about past questionable practices done by the local agencies. I am still waiting for CEO to describe his recent initiatives to correct these issues.
-
GQ, you definitely need to cross rational off that list. :P
Ok, we could also start with this question:
Does anyone here have any doubt that the girls spamming Facetrock and others are not false lures trying to drum up business?
If you think that these girls with their sex chat invites might be truly interested in the profiles Facetrock and others posted as a potential husband, please raise your hand.
This question goes out to everyone, especially those defending HRB's business model.
As for defending, I am not defending HRB any more than A-Web, EM or any other business out there, including the so-called free sites that also are nothing but a business model.
As for these girls, I am positive that they are not directly interested at marriage with the profile Facetrock provided. It would be fun to find out what their interests are, if someone can spare me the credits to do so. The results would be either a report to CEO on which he would have to take action to maintain credibility, or something entirely unexpected by most here.
The question is, do these girls make the business model flawed ? And if so, what solution would you offer for the business model without turning it in to a non-profit organization ?
-
OK, I am not a fan or HRB/RLM or any of the other big sites, as I used a few in the past and I will say they never added real value to my search based on other options available. But, since I had not used HRB previously and had lumped it into the same heap of useless sites as the others I used, I thought I would give them the benefit of the doubt as I had commented on them in the past, plus I was wondering what would happen if I used a real profile (most of those in this thread seemed to use false profiles). So this is my initial review of the site, up to this point, as I was more curious if CEO's claims (IMO, slick marketing comments) held any water (plus, I've wasted $30 in worst endeavors).
First, CEO claims a 99.9% satisfaction rate because it's only 1/10th of a percent who successfully claim a charge back. What he did not mention is that he put a lot of effort into writing a statement that you will agree to the charges when making the purchase and will not ask for a charge back. In other words, most people will own their purchase after that point, even if they realize they were suckers for buying credits (it should be noted that the lowest amout you can buy is $30, but by default they have the amount set at $199, so how many men miss resetting that one?). On this point alone, using the charge back rate as a satisfaction gauge, makes the CEO look clueless in his understanding of Customer Satisfaction which I doubt is really the case.
Creating the profile is about the same as any other site, I did add in specifics in my profile of what I would consider, just in case the ladies reading it really cared to know.
Searching for profiles: This is a really weak point of HRB, especially if you are going to look for a potential wife. The reason why I say this is due to the fact that having an equivalent education level is important along with having shared interests. You do not have options to search on either (plus no keyword search in the profile) which makes me think it's all about the picture of the lady to the HRB folks (since the CEO said he put a lot of money into the site) as men are visual creatures, but what about the few serious searchers? Anyways, I did my search and had about 70 profiles which were returned out of the database of 13,000+.
Garbage distractions: The site is loaded with them. In the first 24 hours I received over 150 emails, most of which were from ladies younger than my stated minimum age. Also, the several times I logged in, I was swamped with chat requests which I could care less about. What surprised me was the volume of them that are received within the first minute of my logging in and in this regards, I'm not sure what checks HRB has, but they should have one that forces the lady to look at the profile (can't force them to read it) and then check off at the bottom of it before they are allowed to initiate a chat. This would definitely reduce the dishonest chat requests or should we say delay their arrival.
Profiles viewed: Yep, they are marketing skin....I think back to how I got started in the search and might have even written a few because even though you know it's mostly a scam, there is a chance. Remember, most of us got into the FSUW search because we are greedy in the context that we felt we deserved better than what we could attract in our own markets (you do not need to agree with me, but IMO this seems to be true) and with such a mindset it's easy to let a few coins trickle out of the pocket. I should say that I did recognize a few profiles I had seen on other sites years ago.
Letters received: VAST majority did not read my profile as they do not qualify based on what I"m looking for. But, a few seemed legit. The age range was from 18 to 50 (BTW, I'm in my 40's). In other words, you can find a real lady but you'll need to shift through a lot of garbage and be more than a little lucky and that's even before you start worrying about the ladies true motive which we all know is economics to a certain degree. Note, this might be a credit to HRB, but when I did my initial search, I tagged a few profiles as favorites expecting that I would receive letters from all of them if the site was a 100% scam site, but it was a rather low percentage of those that sent me letters in the first 36 hours.
Cost: I doubt anyone would suggest a pay-per-letter site as there are too many alternatives these days. At least you do not pay to open the letters and just send them if I understand the operation correctly. Plus, it can cost a lot of money if you start responding to the e-mails, but as others say, this search is not for the underfunded as even the free options become expensive when you start getting on a plane. Now with that said, I do believe other sites may offer a better return as I had good success on Elena's Models and for a low fee (to improve my search capability) also had success on singles.ru. Now knowing what I know, if I started again with the FSUW search, I would use a service like Ed and he's expensive, but at least you do not waste time looking for someone who is not serious so in the long run it might be a lot cheaper option (especially if you project out and look at the long term success rates of these marriages).
Now as a comparison to regular dating sites, I would not recommend a newbie to look into the FSUW. You can still find nice ladies in your own country and it's a lot less hassle than dealing with the overseas adventure (unless you like the adventures, such as I do). I would also not recommend the pay-per-letter sites as you have a lot of options these days and as other posters have mentioned, you will run into scammers on the free sites, but you are in direct contact and it's not costing you anything and on that basis, so the CEO still has a ways to go before his site can be called a legit scammer free site (after all, why pay a premium price when you are getting the same service as all the others that cost a lot less to contact a lady).
-
How did HRB discover that the women disrobed?
The video hostess has thumbnails of the video streaming displayed on her monitor. (The right to monitor is covered in HRB's user agreement.)
Having known a woman, myself, who was clothing-challenged (and extremely libidinous), I can't say that nudity in and of itself proves anything, one way or the other. On the average, it should be taken as a big red flag if it appears early in correspondence, though.
-
wicheese's post makes me think of a very relevant question.
What do the ladies on HRB see? I've seen what women see when using Elena's, bride.ru, etc.
What do they see if they are using HRB? How do they browse men's profiles? If there's nothing to hide, let's see the site.
Edit: As I checked my profile, over 50% of the girls on web cam are requesting chats with me right now. Again, what does this reveal about the core product?
-
As for these girls, I am positive that they are not directly interested at marriage with the profile Facetrock provided. It would be fun to find out what their interests are, if someone can spare me the credits to do so. The results would be either a report to CEO on which he would have to take action to maintain credibility, or something entirely unexpected by most here.
Shadow,
This brings up a very good point for those that posted fictitious and even absurd profiles on HRB. It would seem to me that they would be ignored by serious women whereas responding might be entertained by those with secondary motives. That old computer adage bullshit in, bullshit out comes to mind.
Send 10 surveyors with big noses out to 1000 random women and ask them 'Do you like big noses?'.. I'd be willing to bet that most if not all the women will like big noses regardless of their true feelings. Folks doing these informal surveys should try to be as realistic as possible to properly conduct a survey.
I wonder if the response would be any different with a factual, well written profile from a man that a majority of women could consider desirable and sincere...
-
I wonder if the response would be any different with a factual, well written profile from a man that a majority of women could consider desirable and sincere...
BC, Wicheese posted a real profile. I have both real and absurd. The result is exactly the same.
Edited to add: Many posters who have used HRB with their real profiles have reported the same results as well. Even Sculpto. :P
-
GQ, you definitely need to cross rational off that list. :P
Ok, we could also start with this question:
Does anyone here have any doubt that the girls spamming Facetrock and others are not false lures trying to drum up business?
If you think that these girls with their sex chat invites might be truly interested in the profiles Facetrock and others posted as a potential husband, please raise your hand.
This question goes out to everyone, especially those defending HRB's business model.
>>Does anyone here have any doubt that the girls spamming Facetrock and others are not false lures trying to drum up business?<<
OK - very little time to reply, and should probably wait till I have more - BUT - in the 3 minutes I have:
Start here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=12304.msg242111#msg242111 - which is Reply # 82 . . .
And read through to here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=12304.msg242323#msg242323 - Reply # 161.
Of course, feel free to read prior and subsequent posts - but those are the gist of the answer.
Also - starting here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7756.msg150354#msg150354, Reply # 80 - and continuing to the end of the topic - Reply # 115.
In the case of this 2nd linked topic, however, reading the previous posts are probably a waste of time as they are just a bunch of sniping - but starting with Reply # 80, at least from my POV, it seems to address much of this.
Now - having again referred you all to previous topics addressing this same 'issue' - it should be clear (I hope) that I am NOT making a defense of any practice, but neither am I condemning any practice - YET.
Before we can either condone or condemn, there must be a clear and unequivocal definition of what is, and what is not, condemnable behavior.
I *really* like Gator's suggestion for a 'competitive analysis.' Focus on those attributes that should be measured would be an excellent starting point - and we have the Agency Code of Ethics I mentioned earlier - and we also have Sandro's "Agency Card" found over in the left frame among the "Scam Avoidance" tools. Using those (the ACoE and the ScamCard) to begin the process of defining the attributes to be scored and measured seems the most rational approach - especially since I cannot seem to persuade anyone to come up with a clear and unequivocal definition of a "SCAM" - though I have tried for years.
Unlike some, I am VERY slow to condemn - witness the amount of time I've spent trying to reform wayward members - as some of our Moderators can attest. I see this no different. I will condemn if/when there is a clear basis to do so - and not until. We still do not have that basis.
If you choose to interpret my actions as "defense" of a business practice - I really cannot help that. I assure you that I am more than willing to condemn poor behavior - as I have condemned the hypocrisy of Jim and his blacklist sites for years.
Define the basis for the condemnation. In light of previous topics, that is not yet concluded.
In the meantime - and as always - RWD promotes individual choice. In this topic there has been some illuminating material presented. Quite obviously, for some, that is enough to convince them to take their business elsewhere. THAT is what RWD is all about - presenting the materials and encouraging people to apply what fits for them.
And for the record - if I walked into a bar IRL filled with pros who were lavishing attention on me (and I have in years past) - AND - if my intent was not to just fill the evening, but to find a life partner - the bother of the unsolicited attention would be unsettling if only for the waste of my time. If I felt a potential life-partner might be in that bar, I would probably deal with the unsolicited attention and wade my way through it. At A-web when we did the experiment linked above, it was not that difficult to avoid the unsolicited emails and chat requests. Is it difficult to avoid at HRB?
- Dan
-
....Now as a comparison to regular dating sites, I would not recommend a newbie to look into the FSUW. You can still find nice ladies in your own country and it's a lot less hassle than dealing with the overseas adventure...
Nor will I.
Is the business model shaped by the women in the sites or the men that subscribe to it? IMO, it's the latter. Certainly, the 5% of the lot is not nearly enough to dictate commerce, does it?
-
BC,
I posted a real profile,with my real photo's on HRB.
-
BC, Wicheese posted a real profile. I have both real and absurd. The result is exactly the same.
Edited to add: Many posters who have used HRB with their real profiles have reported the same results as well. Even Sculpto. :P
Are you all desirable?
:tongueout:
-
Are you all desirable?
Hey, I'm just as desireable as Facetrock's short fat bald Muslim Yiddish speaking 60 year old!
-
Now that I've addressed your core issues I'd like to ask you a few direct questions.
Do you recommend HRB as a good site for a serious man to search for a wife?
Do you recommend HRB over other sites such as bride.ru, Elena's Models, Freepersonals.ru, Lucky Lovers or Russian dating sites? If yes, why? Please keep in mind that all these sites allow the exchange of direct contact information.
HRB comes at a much higher cost than the other sites I listed. What higher value (if any)does HRB provide for this additional cost?
The HRB newbie experience was detailed in this thread. Basically, once you sign up you are flooded with emails and chat requests from all sorts of young and pretty women. It appears that the majority of online women at any given time are sending these requests.
In this situation, how would you advise someone without experience to navigate this and instead find 'good women in the database'?
What rules would you have someone follow in order to do so? (For example: Should they ignore all women that initiate first contact? Should they avoid a certain age difference?)
1) Yes, but they can't be as stupid as they wannabe and expect to get positive results.
2) I have no first hand knowledge of the other above sites so I can't offer an informed opinion.
3) If good-faith attempts to validate women, a responsive customer service department and 24-hour assistance are worth something, there is some of the added value.
4) I would advise focussing one's efforts on making the first contact with women but to keep his eyes open in case a normal woman slips through the cracks.
5) There are no hard and fast rules. One has to be able to think on one's feet. If I had to paint with a broad bush, however, I would suggest avoiding all women younger than twenty-five and to be very cautious with those under thirty. (This applies equally to domestic vs international, to HRB vs their competitors and to IMB's vs free sites.)
-
Tom, I appreciate the answers.
However, you must realize that you come across biased when you can't comment on other sites claiming no first hand knowledge, but you do recommend HRB having never even logged on and used the site.
What sites have you used to meet women?
Validating women... seems to me other sites do a better job as there are less bogus intros to sort through.
Customer service and 24 hour assistance. Not of extra value to me. I don't see any use for it unless there are actual problems with the site itself.
Reasonable rules, but if I had applied these I would have never met my past or current girlfriends. Applying any rules wasn't necessary for me on other sites. The main rule was 'if she don't like you, she won't write you back'.
Again thanks for the direct response. Much better than one of your witty one liners. ;-)
-
Well my days on HRB are over. My account has been administratively restricted. Damn!! I still had 42 credits left. All I did was write one letter to a girl asking her where she was putting the chocolate and another telling her how controlling I am but that was in my profile. Tried to chat with one girl but I think she was so busy talking to everyone else it was so damn slow I quit. Now I am banned. Thirty bucks down the drain. No threesome for me :sad:
-
Well my days on HRB are over. My account has been administratively restricted. Damn!! I still had 42 credits left. All I did was write one letter to a girl asking her where she was putting the chocolate and another telling her how controlling I am but that was in my profile. Tried to chat with one girl but I think she was so busy talking to everyone else it was so damn slow I quit. Now I am banned. Thirty bucks down the drain. No threesome for me :sad:
From an entertainment standpoint, I'm sure you got value for your dollar. Plus, it's reassuring to know that OLD FAT MEN are so desirable to an FSUW.
Now the question is, will CEO dig through all our posts and use the few nuggets of value to improve his site or write them off as they are so full of BS (a lot easier than having to shift through all the profiles to find those that are really serious)?
My challenge to him is:
1. Do a true customer satisfaction survey as suggested on this site (I'm guessing they already have, but the positives marks are a lot lower than 99.9%).
2. Do something that forces the lady to view your profile before initiating chat (maybe you do already, so you can explain).
3. Have a mutual match section, let the man set an age range of who he's looking for and if a lady is not in that age range, the prohibit her from initiating chat (the same needs to be done for the women as I noticed a few profiles where they wrote realistic age ranges in their profiles as they might be contacted by a lot of old geezers).
4. Improve your search capability. You really need to include education level or did I miss it? You really need to include an interest/activity option as well as all the mainstream sites (e.g. match.com) have these. Have a keyword search. I'm thinking if this was the case then I would have had a lot few than 70 matches on my initial query.
5. If you are so certain of the quality of your site, give the men a 24 hour period where they can ask for a refund if not 100% satisfied on an initial purchase (with your restrictions on direct contact information you'll not be loosing too much revenue as the keyboard romeos will not mind paying and those who are renewing know what they are getting).
6. You talk about the people you have working for you and your investment in the site, so why not implement an algorithm that tracks women's profiles who are spamming (if they are then have them deleted as these are probably some of your biggest problems) as I remember being contacted by some of the same ladies who contacted men who had false profiles posted.
These are things that will improve your site, if you really care about constructive comment. But, they might also cost a little revenue (maybe offset by the better press you would receive). Anyways, as with anything in life, do what you want with the free comments...
-
Well my days on HRB are over. My account has been administratively restricted. Damn!! I still had 42 credits left. All I did was write one letter to a girl asking her where she was putting the chocolate and another telling her how controlling I am but that was in my profile. Tried to chat with one girl but I think she was so busy talking to everyone else it was so damn slow I quit. Now I am banned. Thirty bucks down the drain. No threesome for me :sad:
Banned? Why? I'm sure the CEO will send you a refund for the 30 bucks. Afterall he is a 99.9% kinda guy and customer satisfaction is # 1.
Do you feel like you were scammed?
-
Instead of countering the negative points made about HRB, will someone please list the positive points for using HRB.
I appreciate three comparisons:
- HRB vs agencies such as EM,
- HRB vs. free dating sites used by Jooky,
- and HRB vs. personal agents (e. g., Eduard).
In reading Jooky's recent post, I see that he is asking TomT for such.
This is a really sound idea Gator. Like an Agency Website ratings, rankings. But maybe instead of just relegating it to a few, the concept could be broadened to include other sites like Bride.ru and Singles.ru, FRP, ete, etc. With bullet points listing pro's and con's of each and a side by side comparison of ranking criteria. Include things like...ethics, value, customer service +/-'s. This way the newer guys could have a solid breakdown all in one place instead of searching through years of threads. Kinda like a JD Power Rating.
-
However, you must realize that you come across biased when you can't comment on other sites claiming no first hand knowledge, but you do recommend HRB having never even logged on and used the site.
What sites have you used to meet women?
Validating women... seems to me other sites do a better job as there are less bogus intros to sort through.
Customer service and 24 hour assistance. Not of extra value to me. I don't see any use for it unless there are actual problems with the site itself.
Reasonable rules, but if I had applied these I would have never met my past or current girlfriends. Applying any rules wasn't necessary for me on other sites. The main rule was 'if she don't like you, she won't write you back'.
I have no objection to being thought of as biased, full of BS, a shill or whatever. You asked for my opinion and I gave it to you.
Before IMBRA, I used AFA and the Angelika Network. After IMBRA, I used forums, scam sites and some help from my friends. I also tried freepersonal.ru briefly but became bored with the scammers.
Perhaps some sites validate women better than others; I have no opinion about that. It's a pity that our ex-wives weren't properly validated.
I don't disagree that customer service and 24-hour assistance are of no value to you. They must be of value to someone; I spent a day on each watching clients use them.
Ah... the infamous missed opportunities... If only we had a few hundred more years to play with, we would have the luxury of thoroughly checking out each and every lead. We don't, though, so we have to make a few intuitive leaps. (That's where it gets tricky.)
-
This is a really sound idea Gator. Like an Agency Website ratings, rankings. But maybe instead of just relegating it to a few, the concept could be broadened to include other sites like Bride.ru and Singles.ru, FRP, ete, etc. With bullet points listing pro's and con's of each and a side by side comparison of ranking criteria. Include things like...ethics, value, customer service +/-'s. This way the newer guys could have a solid breakdown all in one place instead of searching through years of threads. Kinda like a JD Power Rating.
Which involves members doing some WORK, apparently a not very appealing proposition here: 2 years ago we came up with a trial project for agency evaluation (the Agency Card in the Scam Avoidance menu at left: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?pid=6), asking/expecting members to pitch in and contribute in refining it - no takers :(.
-
Sandro, Didn't know. No takers? Would not seem too difficult for guys to do a short rating of the agencies they used and pro's and con's--but I guess I am mistaken.
-
Not only that, Tim...how many times have you witness men come through these halls asking if the woman they're corresponding with is legit, despite the obvious signals she isn't, and yet ignore the members advice anyway? I'd say 'most' if not all of them....
They would occasionally even get hostile when they don't 'hear' (read) what they like to 'hear', LOL.
-
Dammmm GQ, you are so right. Whattsammattta 'wit me I've seen that time and again here. Moron after moron. There are so many idiots involved in this they might as well get fleeced. Can't help the hopeless.
ps: I must have a case of misplaced altrusim this week. I'll get over it.
-
>>now Dan's defense of HNB's practices.<<
What "defense"?!?
I *thought* my posts were aimed at; (a) taking yet another 'run' at trying to define what is - and what is NOT - scamming behavior, and (b) recognizing that IMBRA mandates IMB interaction that was NOT necessary pre-IMBRA (for those who use an IMB), and (c) stating that mere suspicion of guilt is NOT the same as determination of guilt.
I'll ask yet again - have you read the topics linked repeatedly upthread? They were posted PRIOR to this current debate, and they should provide a great deal of helpful context. At a minimum, it may aid those who participated in both (or all three) topics to not contradict themselves.
- Dan
Dan
I now see where my claim of you defending was too strong. Yet you didn't admonish or condemn the practices and I read your later post where you refuse to do so until you find more clarity in definition. Fair enough and I see your position. Probably a good time to point out the way you repost and answer a question I find a little confusing at times and attribute words to you that wasn't you.
I didn't go back and re-read those threads you posted but I have read them before. I participated in them and I feel the same now as I did then. The deception and slight of hand crap is scamming. Sending a member emails under the pretense of response from women when they are not, is a scam, to get the recipient to pay money under false pretense is a scam. It is a world of buyer beware but, that doesn't excuse the scammer IMHO.
I don't see the grey area here but, I'm not in the business. If I am searching for a wife and I register with an agency and pay them money, I expect them to be on my side and working for me. More specifically, I want them providing me with wife material with whom I can meet and get acquainted not, soft porn and sex chat girls. Sculpto's claim there was outright prostitution to white slavery. I'm not so sure now he might not have been right.
CEO's contention is these things happen and are out of his control. If he can't control it on his own website, who can? The fact there there are good women there is completely immaterial. Why aren't ALL the women, good women? That doesn't seem to me as an impossible goal. How about some quality control and take some pride and ownership of his product. I don't accept "corruption in the FSU" as an excuse.
I'm no Goody Goody, "Greater than thou" or firmly planted on the high road. What's wrong with expecting an agency to provide what they claim to provide?
-
I wonder if the response would be any different with a factual, well written profile from a man that a majority of women could consider desirable and sincere...
Well written profiles will still generate invites to video chat at HRB/RLM. I created a decent profile on the Mamba network which has instant messaging. Sent out 3700 intro messages to different women and received 700 replies. Some ladies were very interested in me, some moderate, some had minor interest and a few reply messages basically told me to Fuc off. That sounds realistic don't you think? A regular guy can't please everyone or get nowhere near 50% of the women interested in them. From a large pool of women to sample from my reply rate was about 19% and not every reply was something to celebrate. Minus scammers and spammers who hit on me first, only 5 women wrote me first and none of them were young or had model looks.
If I posted the same profile at HRB/RLM, I'm sure I'd get 50% of the young model looking women talking to me. Most would initiate contact with me first. From a large pool to sample from, that is not how real women act. Why should a guy sign up for an agency and have to be smart enough to distinguish the real from the unreal contacts? If a guy is dumb, it's okay to drain his bank account by sending him false messages of interest and attraction? If a guy signs up at a porn site, he clearly understands the women are paid to give him attention and talk dirty. If a guy signs up for HRB/RLM, he assumes he's talking to real women that are interested in relationships and the women are not paid to talk dirty and they speak on their own free will.
-
Unlike some, I am VERY slow to condemn - witness the amount of time I've spent trying to reform wayward members - as some of our Moderators can attest. I see this no different. I will condemn if/when there is a clear basis to do so - and not until. We still do not have that basis.
And you are doing a helluva good job, seriously. Probably the leading reason why I still hang around well past my expiration date.
In the case of this thread, my attitude changed from HRB is 100% scam to maybe the new HRB management is making significant improvements.
If you choose to interpret my actions as "defense" of a business practice - I really cannot help that. I assure you that I am more than willing to condemn poor behavior - as I have condemned the hypocrisy of Jim and his blacklist sites for years.
I did interpret it as defense when you challenged the legitimate negative points made by Jooky and others. You were not alone. A surprising number of men with years and years of RW industry experience joined you. However, I saw little pragmatism in the different positions all of you were taking.
-
I *really* like Gator's suggestion for a 'competitive analysis.' Focus on those attributes that should be measured would be an excellent starting point
Rather than continue to debate the potentially negative points in the implementation of HRB’s business model, I made the suggestion that someone step forward to list HRB’s positive points (those points which would compel an informed man to choose HRB vs. other options). I could not think of many, so I solicited those "defending" HRB to do it.
I am not volunteering to do a comparative analysis, and can not because I have never used HRB. I have used EM and a couple of similar agencies.
As a starting point, the evaluation factors and criteria could include:
1. Search function: EM allows a man to eliminate women who seek men younger than the searcher’s age. This works well if the age limits are reasonable. The women at EM appear to use reasonable limits in contrast to women at AW who has many 45-yo women specifying an upper age limit of 70 or even 80. What is a 45-yo woman going to do with an 80-yo man? English ability is another important search variable.
2. Activity by the RW: Some women are in the catalogs long after they have removed themselves from the MOB market. I dated one woman through AFA and she soon married a RM; yet her profile remained on AFA’s site for three years. EM shows three factors about a RW’s freshness: when she first signed up, her last login, and her response rate to Expressions of Interest from men.
3. Unhindered Contact with Women. Is communication filtered through agency staff or does it go directly to the RW?
4. Agency Mechanisms in Place to Eliminate “Bad” Women
5. IMBRA Compliance
6. Costs (to send/receive EOIs and letters, translations, videocam sessions, etc.)
7. Reputation, customer service, etc.
-
If I posted the same profile at HRB/RLM, I'm sure I'd get 50% of the young model looking women talking to me.
You are far too modest, Billy. I'm sure that, if you posted a profile on HRB, you would hear from 100% of the young, model-looking women.
-
Tom your absolutely right about that. Your age, race, religion, weight, height or sexual persuasion wont matter a lick to the HRB babes. They simply are dying to talk to anyone.
-
In the case of this thread, my attitude changed from HRB is 100% scam to maybe the new HRB management is making significant improvements.
New management? They were always the same management with the same problems that never seemed to go away. Here is a nearly 5 year old thread at the old RWG site that we used to participate at talking about the same ole problems.
http://www.russianwomenforums.com/messages.cfm?threadid=BD6B6848-F207-AE0E-05D9FE2B1D7190D9&page=1
CEO plays G. Pearson
I play myself
Jooky plays himself
TomT plays himself
HolAsh/Recprob is two profiles who I later found out played by one guy who endorsed HRB/RLM, tried to get in a fight with me and threaten me to shut my mouth over the subject. If any forum owners reading this and have a member with the IP address 68.33.180.235, let me know his name.
-
Well if nothing else the HRB administrater got a couple of guys to drop some money on his business, so his comming here wasn't a total waste of time.
-
Good list by Gator.
I would add:
8. Site population and site active population (which can be seen if #2 is in place).
9. Interface the women use. (Is it the same as what the men use, or do they use a different system?)
-
Well written profiles will still generate invites to video chat at HRB/RLM. I created a decent profile on the Mamba network which has instant messaging. Sent out 3700 intro messages to different women and received 700 replies. Some ladies were very interested in me, some moderate, some had minor interest and a few reply messages basically told me to Fuc off. That sounds realistic don't you think? A regular guy can't please everyone or get nowhere near 50% of the women interested in them. From a large pool of women to sample from my reply rate was about 19% and not every reply was something to celebrate. Minus scammers and spammers who hit on me first, only 5 women wrote me first and none of them were young or had model looks.
If I posted the same profile at HRB/RLM, I'm sure I'd get 50% of the young model looking women talking to me. Most would initiate contact with me first. From a large pool to sample from, that is not how real women act. Why should a guy sign up for an agency and have to be smart enough to distinguish the real from the unreal contacts? If a guy is dumb, it's okay to drain his bank account by sending him false messages of interest and attraction? If a guy signs up at a porn site, he clearly understands the women are paid to give him attention and talk dirty. If a guy signs up for HRB/RLM, he assumes he's talking to real women that are interested in relationships and the women are not paid to talk dirty and they speak on their own free will.
I see that you do apply the double standards as well.
-
Dan
I now see where my claim of you defending was too strong. Yet you didn't admonish or condemn the practices and I read your later post where you refuse to do so until you find more clarity in definition. Fair enough and I see your position. Probably a good time to point out the way you repost and answer a question I find a little confusing at times and attribute words to you that wasn't you.
I didn't go back and re-read those threads you posted but I have read them before. I participated in them and I feel the same now as I did then. The deception and slight of hand crap is scamming. Sending a member emails under the pretense of response from women when they are not, is a scam, to get the recipient to pay money under false pretense is a scam. It is a world of buyer beware but, that doesn't excuse the scammer IMHO.
I don't see the grey area here but, I'm not in the business. If I am searching for a wife and I register with an agency and pay them money, I expect them to be on my side and working for me. More specifically, I want them providing me with wife material with whom I can meet and get acquainted not, soft porn and sex chat girls. Sculpto's claim there was outright prostitution to white slavery. I'm not so sure now he might not have been right.
CEO's contention is these things happen and are out of his control. If he can't control it on his own website, who can? The fact there there are good women there is completely immaterial. Why aren't ALL the women, good women? That doesn't seem to me as an impossible goal. How about some quality control and take some pride and ownership of his product. I don't accept "corruption in the FSU" as an excuse.
I'm no Goody Goody, "Greater than thou" or firmly planted on the high road. What's wrong with expecting an agency to provide what they claim to provide?
FP, I agree with most of what you wrote, but there is something here that seems to be forgotten.
I own a website/forum where over 400 members participate daily. I can tell you that it is near to impossible to follow each post, as even with 10 active forum moderators some offensive ones slip through.
I do not know how many staff HRB has to monitor the conversations, but it seems unlikely that they have enough to monitor all activity of all women online. I have asked several times to the guys who are shouting scam if there is a way to report women who are labeled as potential scammers, seem nobody even cares to reply or find out.
Also perhaps those who still have an active real profile could check if the women mentioned in this thread are still active, or perhaps their accounts were blocked as well.
The real test of any agency is not in what slips through, but in how they offer the possibility to correct things and how they react on that.
-
Quit making lame excuses Shadow.
There is usually less than 400 women online. About 50 of them are the webcam girls. All you need is one profile up to see who is initiating bogus sex chat requests. Why don't you sign up and see for yourself. It's not a case of a few slipping through.
Is there a way to report ladies? I'm sure you can contact customer service, but I don't see an obvious 'report scam' button. You're right, who cares?
The real test of any agency is not in what slips through, but in how they offer the possibility to correct things and how they react on that.
Bull. The agency should deal with it properly in the first place.
Also perhaps those who still have an active real profile could check if the women mentioned in this thread are still active, or perhaps their accounts were blocked as well.
They are still active. I have chat requests from a few of them right now.
By the way: here is a portion of an email send out the HRB Admin to everyone:
Gift giving and courting: If there is a real connection, then you need to step up your game and send some gifts to your lady. As any man knows, giving a woman a gift is a universal sign of "I'm Into You". With gifts ranging from flowers to English lessons, we make it easy for you to be able to court your lady without the hassle. Our online gift shop is just a few clicks away.
What do you think of that? Let's pay for some English lessons for the 'lady' we're not allowed to talk to directly. :rolleyes2:
You guys defending this crap are an embarrassment.
-
In the case of this thread, my attitude changed from HRB is 100% scam to maybe the new HRB management is making significant improvements.
Sure, but would you recommend them to a newbie?
You guys defending this crap are an embarrassment.
Jooky, you & others are mistaking "defence" for HRB.
Is it deleberate fraud by HRB? maybe not, there doesn't seem to be any conclusive proof.
Are there 60 yr old guys dumb enough to spend $1,000's chatting with 18 yr old hotties? sure. (just like those idiotic "live chat" offers for $5 a minute on late night TV)
But the bottom line - would you recommend HRB to a friend?
And, after reading this thread, would you want to use them?
I think any reasonably intelligent guy should be able to figure it out. :popcorn:
-
What about a 40 year old dummy who blows $1000 chatting with a 25 year old 'cutie'? That's more along the lines of the real guys that have complained here over the years.
But the bottom line - would you recommend HRB to a friend?
And, after reading this thread, would you want to use them?
I think any reasonably intelligent guy should be able to figure it out.
You'd think so. So why is TomT recommending HRB? I don't think anyone here would say he's not an intelligent guy. Would Manny recommend HRB too? How about Andrew? I betcha they would. So what's the real deal going on?
-
What about a 40 year old dummy who blows $1000 chatting with a 25 year old 'cutie'? That's more along the lines of the real guys that have complained here over the years.
If that is the case then there ain't a darn thing anyone can do about it.
In school there used to be crossing guards with shiny belts at crosswalks stopping cars. In the virtual world it simply cannot be done other than to force an operation to close with legal means - something waaay beyond the scope of a forum.
If someone drops a grand video-chatting without results I simply cannot find the tears to shed for him.
Jooky you simply cannot help them all.
-
You'd think so. So why is TomT recommending HRB? I don't think anyone here would say he's not an intelligent guy. Would Manny recommend HRB too? How about Andrew? I betcha they would. So what's the real deal going on?
I can't speak for the others but I believe that one can find a wife there. Of course, one can find other things, also. The former requires a bit more effort than the latter but that's always the case.
We have a group of guys here who went looking for spam and they found spam. How remarkable! I daresay that the results would have been much different had they made a good faith effort to find a wife.
-
Related to HRB cutting down on the unsolicited chats or emails, I'm thinking it's pretty easy if they care as it's called a Spam filter. It's the same ladies writing the men and instantly clicking on chat and with all the money the CEO said he spent on the site, I'm pretty sure they know who is spamming and how to restrict it.
BTW, I opened my account this AM and only had 57 new e-mails (in three days that only makes about 450 unsolicited mails, with the vast majority of them outside my age range specified in my profile). So how about HRB allowing a man to put in just an age range to restrict the young early 20's or teens from e-mailing them? There is a lot that they could do, but it's not in their interest because the more candy a person sees, the sooner or later they'll get hungry.
Now in defense of HRB, I will still add that most of the profiles I tagged as favorites in my first query have not written me, so either they are dead profiles or potentially honest ladies who are waiting for the man to make the first step.
-
New management? They were always the same management with the same problems that never seemed to go away. Here is a nearly 5 year old thread at the old RWG site that we used to participate at talking about the same ole problems.
People may question your eyesight; however, your memory is superb. I was under the impression that HRB management had changed. Thanks for showing the error of my thinking.
Sure, but would you recommend them to a newbie?
No way! I now feel bad that my prior comments give the impression that I am indifferent about the HRB business model and its implementation. My true sentiments are reflected in a comment I made to Manny:
Manny, in my opinion HRB is a RW introduction site where a serious man could spend upwards of a few thousand dollars and get the same result as spending $99 at EM. Do you agree? If so, I don't understand how you and your RUA can lend support to HRB if your mission is about helping marriage minded men.
By the way, Manny did not answer my comment and has not appeared here since.
-
Jooky,
You found some rather damning evidence in HRBs email:
Gift giving and courting: If there is a real connection, then you need to step up your game and send some gifts to your lady. As any man knows, giving a woman a gift is a universal sign of "I'm Into You". With gifts ranging from flowers to English lessons, we make it easy for you to be able to court your lady without the hassle. Our online gift shop is just a few clicks away.
This reveals that HRB is persuading men to follow a path that is exactly the opposite of what one should do before meeting a RW. In fact, serious RW will perhaps question the mentality of men who do such. The exception would be flowers but only if a trip is planned and it is her birthday or New Years.
Giving bad advice is one thing, but to do it in a manner that promotes its own gift shop is incredible. This is very damning. It renews my historic opinion that the HRBs business model is one to be avoided.
-
Here's a novel idea: why doesn't one of the uncommitted guys write to an HRB bride exclusively, pay rapt attention to her every word, expand on the topics that she opens, make it obvious that you read and understood the words in her profile, be honest with her and don't mention chocolate. Of course, there is no guarantee that you chose the right girl but, at least, you have more of a chance than wasting time with a spammer.
-
Here's a novel idea...
:rolleyes2:
Sure, one more sucker to line the pockets of your newfound buddies.
Here's a novel idea. Spend at least 15 minutes checking out a site before recommending it. :rolleyes2:
-
Gator,
Never underestimate how large flowers and gifts loom in the legend of FSU women. The extraordinary girls have many admirers... do the analysis.
-
Never underestimate how large flowers and gifts loom in the legend of FSU women. The extraordinary girls have many admirers... do the analysis.
I'm speechless... :o
-
It's getting even better on HRB guys.I logged in today,and got 45 chat requests within 5 minutes.Mind you,these hotties do keep telling me how beautiful i am,so i must be.: )
I can't wait to go to Ukraine for the first time,as i now fully expect all the girls there to be falling at my feet,as i'm only in my fifties.: )))
What's that you say ? HRB is only make believe ? But it says Hot Russian BRIDES on the website...doesn't it ?
-
Sure, one more sucker to line the pockets of your newfound buddies.
Here's a novel idea. Spend at least 15 minutes checking out a site before recommending it.
If anyone thinks that it's more productive to buy some credits and waste them on spammers, then more power to them.
-
Well if nothing else the HRB administrater got a couple of guys to drop some money on his business, so his comming here wasn't a total waste of time.
LOL. Yup, and both are screaming 'scam'....
It's like walking through a beaten path leading to FSU and avoiding stepping on littered pieces of physt along the way. Some guys just have a need to step on it, look at it, smell it, maybe even touch it - just to make sure it is what it appeared to be. Maybe for fun, maybe for curiosity, or maybe they're just plain stupid to know the difference. Then they hurry to tell the guys who avoided them in the first place that it as in fact what those men already know it was...then they complain there's phsyt all over the place.
-
What spammers Tom? HRB is a well monitored and safe dating environment, the best in the industry.
You investigated them thoroughly. Surely they wouldn't let most of their online population consist of spammers that slip through the cracks. :rolleyes2:
-
GQ, what's happening here is guys like Manny and Tom who got past the phsyt are now encouraging others to step right into it.
"It's not phsyt! It's gold!"
-
Gator,
Never underestimate how large flowers and gifts loom in the legend of FSU women.
I agree. Flowers are a religion.
But at the correct time. Not after a few emails. Emails that the woman in the photo never wrote. Emails to a woman who may not know you even exist (Sculpto's testimony).
The extraordinary girls have many admirers... do the analysis.
Can't buy love.
She: "Give me money."
He: "Why?"
She: "Because I am beautiful.".
-
FP, I agree with most of what you wrote, but there is something here that seems to be forgotten.
I own a website/forum where over 400 members participate daily. I can tell you that it is near to impossible to follow each post, as even with 10 active forum moderators some offensive ones slip through.
I do not know how many staff HRB has to monitor the conversations, but it seems unlikely that they have enough to monitor all activity of all women online. I have asked several times to the guys who are shouting scam if there is a way to report women who are labeled as potential scammers, seem nobody even cares to reply or find out.
Also perhaps those who still have an active real profile could check if the women mentioned in this thread are still active, or perhaps their accounts were blocked as well.
The real test of any agency is not in what slips through, but in how they offer the possibility to correct things and how they react on that.
I dunno shadow. I don't really buy into that. I suspect HRB and any other such business could in fact clean it up if they wanted to. I suspect the profit margins are much better with his model as it is now. It would take a number of employees monitoring which would include more expense and then dismissing some cash cow money making agencies and ladies at the expense of some revenue generation. If it were a priority, they could do it. Obviously it is not a priority and doesn't fit into their business model. It's understandable they want the cash transactions happening as quick and as often as possible. I don't think anyone believes they are in this business as philanthropic reasons.
-
The real test of any agency is not in what slips through, but in how they offer the possibility to correct things and how they react on that.
Okay, where is CEO and his promised intitiatives for correcting the issues, many spurious issues?
BTW, it is more than intitiatives. Implemetation is another matter.
-
I agree. Flowers are a religion.
But at the correct time. Not after a few emails.
True enough, it's better if she receives them before she gets hooked up with another, though.
-
True enough, it's better if she receives them before she gets hooked up with another, though.
The advice keeps getting better and better!
Buy her love before someone else does. You need to add these gems of wisdom to Manny's book!
-
True enough, it's better if she receives them before she gets hooked up with another, though.
It is now apparent. You have HRB's flower concession. Come on, admit it.
-
TomT,
:flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers:
You need to use smileys, otherwise I think you are serious.
-
You'd think so. So why is TomT recommending HRB? I don't think anyone here would say he's not an intelligent guy. Would Manny recommend HRB too? How about Andrew? I betcha they would.
It is not just these three carpetbaggers. Some solid citizens at RWD have also joined the parade.
So what's the real deal going on?
Something is awry.
-
It is now apparent. You have HRB's flower concession. Come on, admit it.
Perfume, cell phones and designer shoes, also...
-
Perfume, cell phones and designer shoes, also...
You are on your way! However, you will need a Victoria's Secret franchise before you can retire. ;D
-
I dunno shadow. I don't really buy into that. I suspect HRB and any other such business could in fact clean it up if they wanted to. I suspect the profit margins are much better with his model as it is now. It would take a number of employees monitoring which would include more expense and then dismissing some cash cow money making agencies and ladies at the expense of some revenue generation. If it were a priority, they could do it. Obviously it is not a priority and doesn't fit into their business model. It's understandable they want the cash transactions happening as quick and as often as possible. I don't think anyone believes they are in this business as philanthropic reasons.
FP you are 100% right here. If HRB would really clean up, and by that I mean clean both the female *and* male trash out, there would not be enough left to pay for the hosting.
HRB may take a beating here and at RUA, but that will most probably not even significantly hurt the business they are having. It will however hurt CEO that his efforts to change the game are never enough as there will always be fingers pointing. From his post here it seems that he has figured that out, and hopes to create something that takes away the issues en have right now.
As for gifts and flowers, I see that the greedy men are still around. Yes it would be foolish to send expensive gifts to strangers, but if you are spending a good amount on getting to know a woman by chat, giving her flowers for a special occasion would be appreciated.
Remember that the women experience the large amount of guys who never do anything else as try to talk them out of their clothes, so it helps to get noticed if the chocolate they use is on your dime. ;D
Russian Flora and other gift shops send out similar mails, without getting slammed for it.
-
The advice keeps getting better and better!
Buy her love before someone else does. You need to add these gems of wisdom to Manny's book!
Yes, I wonder what next. Perhaps counseling men to send money to a woman they never met because she needs help for a visa or a dying grandmother as you never know, there is a very remote chance that she could be real :popcorn:
-
As for gifts and flowers, I see that the greedy men are still around.
Some say greedy, I say rational :evil:
-
1.Never send money to someone you have never met.
2.Always have a back-up plan
3.Work to eliminate any agency from your communications.
4.Always get the lady's home address and home phone number as early as possible.
5.Verify the ladies you are writing to are real.
6.Do not fall in love with photos!! Just added!
7.Always be yourself. Show the ladies the real you. Be truthful. Use current photos.
8.Do not rush into this! Take your time and be methodical, not impulsive, about this process.
9.Treat international dating the same as dating someone from your home country. The biggest difference is the cost (travel, phone. etc). This is an expensive process. Don't believe anyone that tells you otherwise.
10.THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A MAIL-ORDER BRIDE! They do not exist.
Are there any others we can cross out with this new round of sage advice from our experienced men?
-
Jooky,
You might as well cross out number 6. Isn't the driving force behind HRB that men will fall in love with photos? And, if you do not fall in love with the photo and rush forward to buy flowers and other gifts you will be labeled greedy :evil:
And, if you cross out all the rest and put aside critical thinking, why would you even bother with 2?
Misha
-
Jooky, based on the actions of facetrock and yourself, cross out nr 7.
-
Some say greedy, I say rational :evil:
That depends on what you call rational.
Spending $3000 and one week to make a trip across the ocean, spend hundreds on communication but not send a $50 gift that the woman may enjoy just as much as a personal appearance.
-
Chats with some of these webcam girls are not a total waste of time to be fair.Some of them actually don't want to blather on about sex.
I was told by one girl that slavic people consider themselves artful,and that they would never change their corrupt ways,and that they consider westerners extremely gullible.
Going by some of the comments that have been defending HRB/RLM on this forum,i have to say i agree with her.
Sending a girl flowers,who chats with you for money ? Whatever next ? Maybe set up a nice little pension plan for her,for when her chatting days are over ?
-
FP you are 100% right here. If HRB would really clean up, and by that I mean clean both the female *and* male trash out, there would not be enough left to pay for the hosting.
HRB may take a beating here and at RUA, but that will most probably not even significantly hurt the business they are having. It will however hurt CEO that his efforts to change the game are never enough as there will always be fingers pointing. From his post here it seems that he has figured that out, and hopes to create something that takes away the issues en have right now.
As for gifts and flowers, I see that the greedy men are still around. Yes it would be foolish to send expensive gifts to strangers, but if you are spending a good amount on getting to know a woman by chat, giving her flowers for a special occasion would be appreciated.
Remember that the women experience the large amount of guys who never do anything else as try to talk them out of their clothes, so it helps to get noticed if the chocolate they use is on your dime. ;D
Russian Flora and other gift shops send out similar mails, without getting slammed for it.
Shadow most of the detractors against the practices of HRB on this thread and forum find the whole idea of having to sift through whores and sex chat girls to find more honest, more morally refined women for possible marriage a bit repulsive. Understandably so, who wants to waste time, effort and expense courting a whore?
There are many men and HRB customers that obviously want just that. Thats all well and good but, playing both sides of the fence may work and be acceptable for the whore seekers, it doesn't sit real well with those in a serious quest for meet and date a more "wholesome" woman. There does seem to me to be an answer and happy medium here but, it doesn't seem to be something CEO or HRB is interested in pursuing.
-
FP you are 100% right here. If HRB would really clean up, and by that I mean clean both the female *and* male trash out, there would not be enough left to pay for the hosting.
That would leave only Jooky and me, and we would not send flowers to each other.
"Trash?!" Doesn't say much for my fellow man and the female jewels dear to my spirit. A little testy today?
HRB may take a beating here and at RUA, but that will most probably not even significantly hurt the business.
I am not trying to hurt their business. And you are correct that participants at RWD are just a modest percentage of men in the pursuit of RW. BTW, is the HRB business revenue growing?
It will however hurt CEO that his efforts to change the game are never enough as there will always be fingers pointing. From his post here it seems that he has figured that out, and hopes to create something that takes away the issues en have right now.
He said "Stay tuned." I am here. His heart may be in the right place, yet implementation is beyond his control. Personally, I don't know what he can do given certain parameters. If I were CEO, I would put a few patches on some holes. However, I would focus my attention upon improving the stable of women and eliminating the titillating greeters. However, he knows where his bread is buttered and perhaps needs them. Just don't expect FP, Jooky, et al to endorse the sleaze element.
As for gifts and flowers, I see that the greedy men are still around. Yes it would be foolish to send expensive gifts to strangers, but if you are spending a good amount on getting to know a woman by chat, giving her flowers for a special occasion would be appreciated.
Greedy - and that comes from a Dutchman. :) :) :) We had a saying, the Dutch can buy from the Scots and sell to the Jews and make a profit. Considering the source, do I take greedy as a compliment. :D
The important point is why pay a hefty amount for video chat when you can do it for free if you met your woman at EM, Russian Euro, etc.? And it is not possibly filtered. The quality can be bad with some locales and with some women who can not afford a better PC or ISP.
Russian Flora and other gift shops send out similar mails, without getting slammed for it.
Please. They aren't here saying how good they are.
-
That would leave only Jooky and me, and we would not send flowers to each other.
Awww... I'll send you flowers.
:flowers:
-
I don't think HRB can afford to do away with the paid soft porn chatters and I bet they are a big part of the revenue stream which goes hand in hand with reminding the dim-witted guys to buy their chatter, flowers, perfume, English lessons etc. Whatever HRB can squeeze out of the fools and I bet they have plenty of regular customers who keep buying credits. The girls keep the guys buying credits and HRB keeps making $$$ every minute she keeps him chatting. Buy some flowers with your credits. Buy the girl a Lexus.
TomT: your investigation and recommendation of HRB is pathetic. Can't get enough lipstick on this pig. How can you recommend a service you never even used? Shame on you and your pal Manny for recommending them here. Any other sof core porn sites you 2 recommend please do on your own forum.
Where is that CEO? He's too busy counting the money from the suckers.
-
Russian Flora and other gift shops send out similar mails, without getting slammed for it.
I meant to respond to this shadow. Yes Russian Flora bombards me with emails and spam as well as 100s or 1000s of other legitimate businesses. Often, I will even look at them and on occasion partake. I was and still am a pretty good customer to them but, the difference is they don't have young hotties showing me their hooters and needing my CC# to webchat. :(
-
Remember stories from the old west. The snake oil salesman that sold an elixer that could cure anything? I guess they didnt dissapear with time.
Its kind of ironic that CEO was over at RUA trolling for investors( his own admission) for a new venture where a person could possibly make 250k per month with very little work. TomT gets a free trip to Florida and comes back a changed man who has seen the light.
Tom if you think I am the only one here who thinks you are now investing or thinking of investing I have news for you and its all bad. Your defence of HRB borders on the bizarre. Give it up already and either admit your now biased and if I am wrong go seek counseling.
Shadow I admit my profile was so bad NO WOMAN would want anything to do with me. I specifically stated I was looking for a woman who would consent to being my houskeeper and slave. I wanted a woman who would give all her attention to me and follow my orders 100 percent of the time. Also she had to be willing live with a man who had spincter problems in bed while sleeping. I also made it clear she had to be into bald, obese, Yiddish speaking Muslims guys with bad body odor. I hit the the jackpot at HRB. Not one girl in all the letters I recieved ever mentioned any of my shortcomings. The letters spoke of lonelisness and heartbreak. Of the lack of good men in Russia. Of how my profile without a picture appealed to their heart and of course love. Blah blah blah on and on and on it went. I was smitten. Plus they were all young and beautiful. But alas, I was kicked off.
My advice is this. If you are like the above man HRB is for you. Hundreds upon hundreds of beautiful young sweet things must be willing and ready to change your diaper at HRB and obey your commands. Otherwise why would they write to you and tell you your profile appealed to them.
CEO, I am sorry I wasnt quite truthful in my profile. I think I proved a point though. Would you please activate my acount. Pretty please. :-* :-*
TomT , Manny, Shadow. Get real. Enough already.
-
He said "Stay tuned." I am here. His heart may be in the right place, yet implementation is beyond his control. Personally, I don't know what he can do given certain parameters. If I were CEO, I would put a few patches on some holes. However, I would focus my attention upon improving the stable of women and eliminating the titillating greeters. However, he knows where his bread is buttered and perhaps needs them. Just don't expect FP, Jooky, et al to endorse the sleaze element.
exactly.
The naivete shown here in this is embarrassing frankly.
Do any of you ever think how easy it is, with the almost zero transparency of FSU affiliate *cough* ownership..
to:
1. set up a business model of plausible deniablity as a core.(brilliant that)
2.have any number of FSU affliates you own ,or don't own (who is to really know ;) )
3.have a small front end to the agency in any given location ,and a block over have a place for lots of workers.
4.Have policies in place and to STRICTLY inforce them, removing FSU affiliates often !!
(what great marketing.. :) )
yet to be replaced by 800 more tomorow /different names ,same workers)
5.The ease of hiring workers and keeping the quiet in the FSU.
6.have any number of "seeminlgy " competing websites.
7.have independent scam buster sites ,as a marketing tool
8.market to the lowest common demonator (just look at the name of the sites ,and the profile names of the women) and market specifically to men who will not travel ,man who are married,men from culture they could not reasonably bring a RW, but would love to chat with one. etc etc etc.
I'm not in this business ,but if you don't think i could run something easily like this, and for a very decent profit you are nuts. My big question is what is the the average local *roof* an FSU affiliate typically pays t othier local insurer? lol?
Hey flying a lower profile in provincial cities,and being very diversified with many very small agecnies vs combined might be a lower *roof* - higher profit, in the FSU?
vs *here* where naturally combining into a larger agency would be more cost effective.
just sayin'
They whole premise of this debate is silly.
Many are actually trying to debate whether the US corp offices are naive to what the FSU *cough* affiliates do.
and the irony is who discourages or encourages the scenario ,or the definition of scam,
wouldn't matter to a sincere guy that is looking anyway.
it's all the same ,whomever perpetuates it!!
This isn't some slam at only HRB,,all the agencies with this exact business model (and often the same frequent chatters listed) are the same IMHO. and may be co-owned or invested in, and not be as *competing* as one might assume.
Have fun guys, as GQ alluded , i have no motive or need to prove to anyone that the earth goes around the sun ,not the opposite.
-
GQ, what's happening here is guys like Manny and Tom who got past the phsyt are now encouraging others to step right into it.
Jooky-
I took a position on another similar thread relating to AW. The site have various traps to separate the men from their money. From that vantage point, I use that model as a definition of scam. My opinion about AW's business model is similar to my opinion about HRB's.
But from what I gathered what TomT's contention is for as long as services are rendered as paid i.e. people do in fact get to meet sincere and marry women in the site OR men get to videochat PYTs - then what's the fuzz? To which, I can also agree...
As for CEO trying to 'clean' up the site. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. Maybe he is except he's just not doing it fast enough according to some of you...but if he in fact did banish one, 10, 100, 1000 spammers and/or scammer despite anyone saying it isn't efficient enough - well, it doesn't negate the fact CEO is doing what he says he's doing.
Some of you recommend Eduard...well, heck, there's a video anyone can easily watch how he endorsed and validated a woman's sincerity to which his client continued to date and nearly filed a K-visa for...only to find out, for lack of a better term, she's listed and dating other men...so yes, he got scammed big time. I can only wonder how many videochats with PYTs that guy could have had at HRB for the money he spent using Eduard for that experience....Yet, folks still recommend his business.
What's the difference?
I won't defend HRB, but looking at this from another vantage point if nothing else, HRB like AW, is a darn good filtering process for sincere women. It got rid of the rift rafts, social misfits, voyeurs and processed through men who maintained a least half a wit by standing behind their convictions.
Face it, some men involved in this process, like those who need to be held by the hand to date a woman for marriage; really has no business being here in the first place. Folks get to watch the movie they got tickets for...
You don't like HRB/AW/EM/Eduard/Jack, Freepersonals, etc...don't use it.
-
HRB like AW, is a darn good filtering process for sincere women. It got rid of the rift rafts, social misfits, voyeurs and processed through men who maintained a least half a wit by standing behind their convictions.
How does it get rid of them? They end up getting lured to Russia and Ukraine! Then you get a bunch of 'riff raff' wandering around like lost puppies or getting hooked up with the real desperate Green Card Girls. Next up: more restrictions for everyone else (which I believe is what we're supposed to 'stay tuned' for).
The other sites eliminate the 'riff raff' much better. When a man gets no attention he realizes he's better off sitting at home.
-
Jooky-
I took a position on another similar thread relating to AW. The site have various traps to separate the men from their money. From that vantage point, I use that model as a definition of scam. My opinion about AW's business model is similar to my opinion about HRB's.
But from what I gathered what TomT's contention is for as long as services are rendered as paid i.e. people do in fact get to meet sincere and marry women in the site OR men get to videochat PYTs - then what's the fuzz? To which, I can also agree...
As for CEO trying to 'clean' up the site. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. Maybe he is except he's just not doing it fast enough according to some of you...but if he in fact did banish one, 10, 100, 1000 spammers and/or scammer despite anyone saying it isn't efficient enough - well, it doesn't negate the fact CEO is doing what he says he's doing.
Some of you recommend Eduard...well, heck, there's a video anyone can easily watch how he endorsed and validated a woman's sincerity to which his client continued to date and nearly filed a K-visa for...only to find out, for lack of a better term, she's listed and dating other men...so yes, he got scammed big time. I can only wonder how many videochats with PYTs that guy could have had at HRB for the money he spent using Eduard for that experience....Yet, folks still recommend his business.
What's the difference?
I won't defend HRB, but looking at this from another vantage point if nothing else, HRB like AW, is a darn good filtering process for sincere women. It got rid of the rift rafts, social misfits, voyeurs and processed through men who maintained a least half a wit by standing behind their convictions.
Face it, some men involved in this process, like those who need to be held by the hand to date a woman for marriage; really has no business being here in the first place. Folks get to watch the movie they got tickets for...
You don't like HRB/AW/EM/Eduard/Jack, Freepersonals, etc...don't use it.
All good points and a rational position there GQ. I don't think there's much chance of us using HRB. I think (and I may be wrong) what has gotten the goat of some here is the defending of such sites and practices by Manny and TomT and as much or moreso insisting that it's normal and accepted. There's not much doubt posters here won't be using HRB but, honestly, could you look yourself in the mirror knowing you recommended someone to look at HRB to find a wife?
-
They end up getting lured to Russia and Ukraine! Then you get a bunch of 'riff raff' wandering around like lost puppies or getting hooked up with the real desperate Green Card Girls. Next up: more restrictions for everyone else (which I believe is what we're supposed to 'stay tuned' for).
How does anyone know with certainty the 'lured' is any different from those using Mamba, EM, or any other venue? It's all nothing but a crapshoot.
-
How does anyone know with certainty the 'lured' is any different from those using Mamba, EM, or any other venue? It's all nothing but a crapshoot.
What would be the motivation for a woman on Mamba to lure a sucker without an agency behind her to profit?
-
What would be the motivation for a woman on Mamba to lure a sucker without an agency behind her to profit?
Jooky-
Your most recent inquiring post suggested 'real desperate Green Card Girls'....not least of which, 'pro' - 'serial' daters, etc...
-
....There's not much doubt posters here won't be using HRB but, honestly, could you look yourself in the mirror knowing you recommended someone to look at HRB to find a wife?
Not sure if this was rhetorical, FP....but in case it isn't, then this is my response....
We all have differing methodology we used that proved to be effective...EM, Mamba, freepersonals, luckylovers, AFA, Romance Tours, etc...
We do so individually simply because it yielded positive results for all of us respectively...
So as a response to your Q, I will ask, how is TomT's recommendation have any less merit than anyone else's?
-
Your most recent inquiring post suggested 'real desperate Green Card Girls'....not least of which, 'pro' - 'serial' daters, etc...
I don't get it. What's the connection to Mamba? Mamba isn't a network where Russian women are deliberately looking for foreign dudes.
-
Jooky-
Mamba is part of THE social network made specifically for Ruskies...including those abroad. Some Russ folks even say it was specifically made mostly for ex-pats.
Love.Mail.ru , Love.Rambler.ru , etc...they've been around since 2000 that I am aware of.
-
GQ, have you used the network? If some Russ folks say it was specifically for ex-pats, some Russ folks would be wrong.
From experience, the possibility of getting lured by a pro-dater on Mamba is a long long shot. There's no reason for it and I've never heard of it happening. Have you?
A pro-dater etc. is going to go where the business is, some agency.
-
GQ, have you used the network?
Before ever embarking to Russia, one Ukrainian woman I met here in LA told me about it because she said there's where I can find a lot of FSUW in our area. She was right. That was one of the humble beginnings of my experience in this crazy saga.
From experience, the possibility of getting lured by a pro-dater on Mamba is a long long shot.
Again, you are likely speaking from your experience and there's definitely nothing wrong with that. Even if, a big 'if', it was in fact happening to you maybe even without you knowing about it, then it becomes a matter of interpretation again, isn't it? If TomT was met with success through HRB, then....(?)
There's no reason for it and I've never heard of it happening. Have you?
All I can tell you is...this network is huge and there are 'likely' as many, if not more, ex-pats marrying folks from 'home' than there are WMs doing the same. There is an air of 'coolness' believeing that Russian women are making an exception for us, you know...
As for info beyond that, Jooky...as Lt. Shultz often say....'Herr Captain...I know nuthin', nuthin at all!'
-
Shame on you and your pal Manny for recommending them here.
Kindly link me to any "recommendation" I made? When you cannot, I'll accept your apology with good grace, Tim.
By the way, Manny did not answer my comment and has not appeared here since.
Manny has a a wife, two kids, forums to run, several business and a hard drive that needed replacing (again) this morning. >:(
You'll understand that answering your queries is in the queue Gator.
I am still wiping tears of laughter from my eyes at some of Jooky's -- and a few others -- vacuous truths masquerading as perspicacious observations and deductions.
Carry on.......
-
Even if, a big 'if', it was in fact happening to you maybe even without you knowing about it
Trust me, when a gal in Russia offers to foot the bill after dinner, she's no pro-dater. ;D
If TomT was met with success through HRB, then....(?)
He never even used the site! :D
All I can tell you is...this network is huge and there are 'likely' as many, if not more, ex-pats marrying folks from 'home' than there are WMs doing the same.
For certain. It's a site for Russians meeting Russians. That's what I'm saying. It's not where Russians go to meet foreigners, even if they're already in a foreign land.
-
Trust me, when a gal in Russia offers to foot the bill after dinner, she's no pro-dater. ;D
No, of course not. There are other indication fit for the classification nevertheless. But having a woman foot the bill for dinner is hardly impressive these days, wouldn't you say?
For certain. It's a site for Russians meeting Russians. That's what I'm saying. It's not where Russians go to meet foreigners, even if they're already in a foreign land.
Of course :D
-
Not sure if this was rhetorical, FP....but in case it isn't, then this is my response....
It wasn't
We all have differing methodology we used that proved to be effective...EM, Mamba, freepersonals, luckylovers, AFA, Romance Tours, etc...
We do so individually simply because it yielded positive results for all of us respectively...
Not sure I follow you here. Say you have someone you know and are close with, that comes to you for advice. They know your wife. They are impressed with her and how seemingly she completes your life making you a happy fellow. He asks you, "GQ, you have such a wonderful wife and a good life, where could I find a wife as wonderful as her". Do you send him to HRB?
So as a response to your Q, I will ask, how is TomT's recommendation have any less merit than anyone else's?
That answer is no. TomT's has no less merit than anyone else's. I assume Tom has the jumped through the hoops, made the journey and learned some knocks. (assume as I do not know) TomT recommends sifting though a barrage of whores to find good women. If one has the time and inclination to do so, thats good advice, if TomT told him about the whores
-
TomT recommends sifting though a barrage of whores to find good women. If one has the time and inclination to do so, thats good advice, if TomT told him about the whores
Whores? Is Tom recommending sifting through whores? I must have missed that......
I know you like twisting words, adding content and making recommendations based on zero experience Faux Pas, but whores? A woman who engages in promiscuous sexual intercourse, usually for money; prostitute; harlot; strumpet?
Is it your assertion that these women on HRB are ladies of the night? Can you back up a public statement like that?
-
Perhaps it means that HRB/RLM are not a "scam agency" as some quarters of the industry find it convenient to paint them? Perhaps the lack of evidence, and the anti-scam systems in place as discovered by those who visited, were not newsworthy enough to keep repeating. After all, who wants to go around shouting "ABC agency is not so bad after all"? Far easier to repeat a few rumours from some blokes who thought they were "scammed" video chatting with a woman thirty years their junior, which is what happens with many so called "scam" agencies.
The facts often get in the way of the rumours. Many prefer to ignore inconvenient facts and continue to perpetuate rumours. I wonder how many people who howl about "scam" agencies have actually used the agency they caution others not to use.
Some blokes think spending anything over $50 represents being scammed.
Apology? You jest.
-
Whores? Is Tom recommending sifting through whores? I must have missed that......
I know you like twisting words, adding content and making recommendations based on zero experience Faux Pas, but whores? A woman who engages in promiscuous sexual intercourse, usually for money; prostitute; harlot; strumpet?
Is it your assertion that these women on HRB are ladies of the night? Can you back up a public statement like that?
Zero experience Manny? Oh have I forgotten again? Damn it, Nobody's experience can triumph Manny's? Or is it I am not credible? Surely, nobody's credibility tops Manny? Bullsh!t.
I have an opinion Manny. Here, my experience, credibility and opinion is just as valid as yours. Kind'a pisses you off don't it?
I haven't twisted anyones words. If you wish to call the bare-breasted girls on HRB with they're shirts off "good Christian girls", wholesome and pure as the driven snow marriage material you go right ahead. Maybe you'd put your daughter to work there?
Now you are parsing words Manny. If you wish to continue to defend such practices, please go right ahead but your attempt at white washing it has failed. Selling sex chat with bare-breasted women (whores) is whoring not marriage brokering
-
Awww... I'll send you flowers.
:flowers:
That sounds as if I need to protect my tailpipe from a heat seeking missile. :o :o :o
-
Not sure I follow you here. Say you have someone you know and are close with, that comes to you for advice. They know your wife. They are impressed with her and how seemingly she completes your life making you a happy fellow. He asks you, "GQ, you have such a wonderful wife and a good life, where could I find a wife as wonderful as her". Do you send him to HRB?
FP-
If I had met my wife through HRB, then of course I'd recommend that guy to use HRB. Just like I recommend EM these days, despite my apprehension, because it is what I used and where I met my wife. That was the point I was making....
-
Shadow most of the detractors against the practices of HRB on this thread and forum find the whole idea of having to sift through whores and sex chat girls to find more honest, more morally refined women for possible marriage a bit repulsive. Understandably so, who wants to waste time, effort and expense courting a whore?
There are many men and HRB customers that obviously want just that. Thats all well and good but, playing both sides of the fence may work and be acceptable for the whore seekers, it doesn't sit real well with those in a serious quest for meet and date a more "wholesome" woman. There does seem to me to be an answer and happy medium here but, it doesn't seem to be something CEO or HRB is interested in pursuing.
I agree, however there is no guarantee that on another site you are not corresponding with the same type of women, they just seem easier to ignore.
New guys should be warned that not every woman that contacts them is interested. In fact if they would read up they would find that a very large part of the women that make the first step have alterior motives. That goes for every place the guy signs up to, even those with the highest reputation.
-
I meant to respond to this shadow. Yes Russian Flora bombards me with emails and spam as well as 100s or 1000s of other legitimate businesses. Often, I will even look at them and on occasion partake. I was and still am a pretty good customer to them but, the difference is they don't have young hotties showing me their hooters and needing my CC# to webchat. :(
Does that mean you feel HRB is not a legitimate business ?
-
Does that mean you feel HRB is not a legitimate business ?
No doubt it's legitimate for the sex industry and soaking some lonely sap of his money. It's a business that obviously has a large clientele and is filling a niche. I have no problem with that aspect. But to recommend it as a legitimate bride/marriage agency? Thats quite a stretch. No matter how much lipstick and rouge you put on that pig, it's still a pig
-
Zero experience Manny? Oh have I forgotten again? Damn it, Nobody's experience can triumph Manny's? Or is it I am not credible? Surely, nobody's credibility tops Manny? Bullsh!t.
I have an opinion Manny. Here, my experience, credibility and opinion is just as valid as yours. Kind'a pisses you off don't it?
I haven't twisted anyones words. If you wish to call the bare-breasted girls on HRB with they're shirts off "good Christian girls", wholesome and pure as the driven snow marriage material you go right ahead. Maybe you'd put your daughter to work there?
Now you are parsing words Manny. If you wish to continue to defend such practices, please go right ahead but your attempt at white washing it has failed. Selling sex chat with bare-breasted women (whores) is whoring not marriage brokering
Wow FP.. mind sharing your login/pw with me for a little.. well.. 'research'? Did you really see breasts?
Did anyone here really see breasts, or maybe even more?
I'm a fan of the scientific method (and breasts) that requires that observable phenomena be reproducible . I'll be happy to report the results.. Heck I'd even throw in screenshots and chat transcripts. Can anyone share their evidence with us here? I'd really like to get to the bottom of this..
:ROFL:
Seriously, after 10 pages of discussion where's the red hot smoking gun and is it the norm? Is a little spam and chocolate all we got so far?
I do know that from since 2002 when I first joined a forum, every 'system' touted has not raised the level of success over that of of finding a needle in a haystack - and often even that results in bloodied fingers to those considering themselves lucky. Is this just another haystack to pick through?
-
That would leave only Jooky and me, and we would not send flowers to each other.
"Trash?!" Doesn't say much for my fellow man and the female jewels dear to my spirit. A little testy today?
Parent of a 4 month old baby... explains all. :hipdude:
-
No doubt it's legitimate for the sex industry and soaking some lonely sap of his money. It's a business that obviously has a large clientele and is filling a niche. I have no problem with that aspect. But to recommend it as a legitimate bride/marriage agency? Thats quite a stretch. No matter how much lipstick and rouge you put on that pig, it's still a pig
There is a difference between recommending and accepting it as it is.
As far as I know there is no sex offered in the chat or video, and there are legitimate marriages through the site. In fact I am pretty sure that if the CEO would be interested in the sex industry, he could easily make more money with les people nagging.
HRB *is* a bride/marriage site, with some aspects that seems to be attractive to many men and very unattractive to others.
Something just crossed my mind for which I will open a poll.
-
Zero experience Manny?
Zero experience of Eds site that you were "not recommending" last month. Remember?
Oh have I forgotten again? Damn it, Nobody's experience can triumph Manny's? Or is it I am not credible? Surely, nobody's credibility tops Manny? Bullsh!t.
Well, my experience dwarves yours I think. But as you ask, based on your previous content here, I don't consider you credible.
I have an opinion Manny. Here, my experience, credibility and opinion is just as valid as yours. Kind'a pisses you off don't it?
Here, maybe. You are incorrect in your assertion that it "pisses me off".
I haven't twisted anyones words.
You do it often. I just call you when you when you do it with me.
If you wish to call the bare-breasted girls on HRB with they're shirts off "good Christian girls", wholesome and pure as the driven snow marriage material you go right ahead. Maybe you'd put your daughter to work there?
Evidence of bare breasted girls?
your attempt at white washing it has failed. Selling sex chat with bare-breasted women (whores) is whoring not marriage brokering
I beg to differ. YOUR attempt at whitewashing has failed. Answer the question please:
Whores? Is Tom recommending sifting through whores? I must have missed that......
I know you like twisting words, adding content and making recommendations based on zero experience Faux Pas, but whores? A woman who engages in promiscuous sexual intercourse, usually for money; prostitute; harlot; strumpet?
Is it your assertion that these women on HRB are ladies of the night? Can you back up a public statement like that?
-
I've never seen any bare-breasted women on HRB,although i haven't responded to any girls inviting me to see them on webcam,with sexual overtone messages.TomT alluded to the fact there were girls disrobing on webcam on HRB in the past,but they were removed from the site.
-
I've never seen any bare-breasted women on HRB,
Faux Pas claims to know all about it. He says they are "whores" too.
We are waiting on his proof of both.
-
Is a little spam and chocolate all we got so far?
BC, when a third of the ladies online are targetting one guy and 150 / day are mailing a guy, I'd say the spam is more than just a little.
Is it your assertion that these women on HRB are ladies of the night?
While you're playing the silly Dictionary game you should look up the definition of the word 'usually'. :rolleyes2:
You should sign up on HRB (as a 'lady'). Maybe someone can help you with English lessons. It only costs $600.
'My experience is bigger than your experience.' :rolleyes2:
Manny, do you recommend HRB as a good site for a man to find a wife?
PS: HOTCAT11, can't see the nipples, but the breasts are bare. She's not the only one. Girls in their bras and panties abound. Ever used HRB, Mr. Experienced?
-
Just like I recommend EM these days, despite my apprehension, because it is what I used and where I met my wife.
If you have apprehension, don't recommend it. If you met your wife at McDonald's would you recommend it as a good place to specifically look for a wife? If you think it's a long shot and not a good place to meet a wife, even though it worked for you, then don't recommend it.
I mean if I hit a jackpot on a slot machine at Harrahs, I'm not going to recommend it as a good way to make money to all my friends. :P
My recommendations are about easy ways to meet good (decent, intelligent, non materialistic, interesting) women, not 'sorting the wheat from the chaff' to find 'needles in a haystack'. I've also had some 'needle in a haystack' experiences, but I don't recommend them.
-
If you have apprehension, don't recommend it. If you met your wife at McDonald's would you recommend it as a good place to specifically look for a wife? If you think it's a long shot and not a good place to meet a wife, even though it worked for you, then don't recommend it.
McDonald's? WTF? Since when did they became a 'dating' site/agency?
If you're going to make a supporting counter point to your debate, at the least make one that's a bit more plausible.
Your post is a continuation of my exchange with FP, which in context of my conversation with him implied which dating agency/sites I used to meet my wife....
Now...if the question was made in broader term and someone asked me where I met my wife, then I will tell them McDonald's if in fact it was true. Capice?
-
The problem with a site like HRB where you get the flood of chat requests and emails it doesnt take long to get paranoid as hell. You would really wonder if anyone on the site is real. I met a few local guys who started using Aweb right out of the box. Within a month they were totally turned off and came to the conclusion that FSU women were nothing but a scam and fantasy. That was after about a thousand bucks out of both of them.
Manny you want proof of bare tits? Whats the difference if a chat girl promises but you dont spend the credits on cam to see it. Still the same trampish mindset.
What happened to your arguement that this was just a few prodaters trying to hit up a new guy on HRB????????
-
I've never seen any bare-breasted women on HRB,although i haven't responded to any girls inviting me to see them on webcam,with sexual overtone messages.TomT alluded to the fact there were girls disrobing on webcam on HRB in the past,but they were removed from the site.
In the 2+ days on the site I have not seen any bare-brested women, but a few with very wet white t-shirts. Others with no clothes other than a sheet barely covering the strategic parts of the body and quite a few more wearing clothing that left just enough to the imagination to make it interesting (I think a few led me to comment "that's good marketing" :D ).
I'll should also report, that many profiles had ladies wearing normal clothing without the skimpy swimsuit pics, but these were mostly those that I looked at based on my initial query and not those that wrote me.
A few of the clothing challenged ones had subject lines in their profiles that mentioned sex, but I did not have any reason to think that it was more than a hook to "suck" a few credits out-of-you.
Anyways, from what I have seen, I would not recommend HRB to anyone unless they are looking to live an online fantasy. But, as TomT alluded to, with a lot of luck and spending a lot of credits I have no doubt that a few good ones could be found (I just think their are a lot better ways of going about your search). There is even a thread of a man over on RUA who found his fiancee on HRB, but reading his thread has more than a few members raising red flags (as it seemed like a rather pained process).
-
McDonald's? WTF? Since when did they became a 'dating' site/agency?
If you're going to make a supporting counter point to your debate, at the least make one that's a bit more plausible.
Your post is a continuation of my exchange with FP, which in context of my conversation with him implied which dating agency/sites I used to meet my wife....
Now...if the question was made in broader term and someone asked me where I met my wife, then I will tell them McDonald's if in fact it was true. Capice?
My point is simply that there's no need to recommend anywhere as good place to meet a wife (dating agency or not) even if it's where you met yours.
-
Manny, do you recommend HRB as a good site for a man to find a wife?
The "Which site do you recommend" has come up on various radio shows I have done across the US and Canada. I don't recommend any one site or approach that fits all men. It very much depends on the man. If he is socially inept, or damaged (and we have seen on this very topic that *some* men regard women as whores for example), or someone who has never left the US, he needs to take a different approach to a man who is confident and well travelled (and some should just stay home altogether -- lets be honest).
Another type of guy needs a a one-on-one approach like that which Ed offers. Some guys pay thousands to go on (often times) fruitless tours and socials don't they? There is not a one-size-fits-all solution, so the question of recommendations needs to be tailored to the individual and is not at all black and white.
A guy who has read our book, and read the two recommended forums in depth, could most likely find a wife at HRB without too much difficulty. My wife has several clients that she has worked with who are now married to women from Anastasiaweb for example. Yet you guys scream blue murder and howl "scam site" whenever they are mentioned. As with anything, education on the subject matter is key.
There is even a thread of a man over on RUA who found his fiancee on HRB
Look Jooky, some people are making HRB work for them. I bet that is *really* inconvenient for your -- as yet undisclosed -- agenda here isn't it?
I am still waiting for Faux Pas to give us evidence of the very silly stuff he has written.
-
I am still waiting for Faux Pas to give us evidence of the very silly stuff he has written.
He gave you his opinion. Drop this and move on to more productive discussion, please.
-
He gave you his opinion. Drop this and move on to more productive discussion, please.
I respectfully disagree. I asked him very valid questions and asked him to back up his published opinions with evidence.
Although he is a mod somewhere on here I think? That shouldn't give him diplomatic immunity. I am sure he doesn't need your support. He is a big boy, he can speak for himself I am sure. He made some pretty outrageous statements he should justify/explain/prove to the community.
-
Look Jooky, some people are making HRB work for them. I bet that is *really* inconvenient for your -- as yet undisclosed -- agenda here isn't it?
What do you imagine my undisclosed agenda to be?
My recommendations and agenda on these sites hasn't changed for years and it that should be apparent to all but the paranoid.
-
My point is simply that there's no need to recommend anywhere as good place to meet a wife (dating agency or not) even if it's where you met yours.
Fine. Tell that to FP. My post you quoted was in response to HIS direct query to me since he was asking for clarification. It has nothing whatsoever to do whether we should, or should not, give recommendations...
-
Manny,
Why get so upset about what the aggressive and titillating girls are called? Call them a gauntlet of cheerful greeters. If a man manages to pass the gauntlet and conducts a sincere and thorough search for marriage quality women, HRB still costs the man far more than EM would have (my quick estimate is $2000 vs. $99). And the HRB method has more implied risk.
Far greater cost and higher implied risk. Do the "rewards" justify the premium? Personally I did not distinguish a difference in quality between HRB vs. EM for 40-something women.
-
Faux Pas claims to know all about it. He says they are "whores" too.
We are waiting on his proof of both.
Proof of both? Manny I am not obligated to provide you with diddly squat. You're trying to bait me. I'm not biting. You haven't a clue as to my experience and I don't find you worthy of disclosure. I don't have to use Eduard to know that I don't want to or know that I wouldn't recommend him. I don't have to wife hunt at HRB to know that I don't want to or wouldn't recommend it. If that pisses you off, get over it.
I consider any bare-breasted girl in sex webcam chat a whore. Selling herself for the titillation of the Manny's of the world is whorish. Yes, I find them on equal footing to ladies of the night. Did Tom call them whores? Could you point to me where I said Tom called them whores? I called them whores Manny. Why are you parsing and attempting to attribute something to me I didn't say?
-
Manny and FP, please drop the back and forth, or I will move it to NHB.
Thank you.
-
Did anyone here really see breasts, or maybe even more?
Breasts?!? Women with Breasts?!! OMG, NO!!! Run, Forest, RUN!!!
lighten up, just having fun
-
Proof of both? Manny I am not obligated to provide you with diddly squat. You're trying to bait me. I'm not biting. You haven't a clue as to my experience and I don't find you worthy of disclosure. I don't have to use Eduard to know that I don't want to or know that I wouldn't recommend him. I don't have to wife hunt at HRB to know that I don't want to or wouldn't recommend it. If that pisses you off, get over it.
I consider any bare-breasted girl in sex webcam chat a whore. Selling herself for the titillation of the Manny's of the world is whorish. Yes, I find them on equal footing to ladies of the night. Did Tom call them whores? Could you point to me where I said Tom called them whores? I called them whores Manny. Why are you parsing and attempting to attribute something to me I didn't say?
I think we can all see the problem here.
As per Boethius's request, I wont upset you further with facts or logic on this topic Faux Pas.
Readers can draw their own conclusions about your bizarre statements.
-
What would be the motivation for a woman on Mamba to lure a sucker without an agency behind her to profit?
Plus, a woman on Mamba is not specifically looking for a foreigner. She is looking for a local guy, but many will be happy to marry the right man even if he is not local :popcorn:
-
I think we can all see the problem here.
As per Boethius's request, I wont upset you further with facts or logic on this topic Faux Pas.
Readers can draw their own conclusions about your bizarre statements.
Well thats mighty *cough* gentlemanly of you Manny. You're not capable of upsetting me, hopefully your ego can take the blow? There was nothing bizarre in my statements. What about them did you not understand? One with all your credibility, knowledge and experience, surely you didn't get confused did you?
-
What would be the motivation for a woman on Mamba to lure a sucker without an agency behind her to profit?
Same as why on icq you get invitations to video chat from enterprising exhibitionists. I get a few per week. I have to leave icq open for chats with folks that aren't buddies for business purposes.
ICQ is often used for distribution of unwanted advertisement and spam.[6] This is facilitated by ICQ's use of usernames consisting of multiple-digit numbers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICQ
Chat and video chat platforms provide good and often free infrastructure to sell their warez without using a middleman who takes a cut for providing their platform. Just about any woman can make make a few bucks with a webcam and computer at home.
-
Well thats mighty *cough* gentlemanly of you Manny. You're not capable of upsetting me, hopefully your ego can take the blow? There was nothing bizarre in my statements. What about them did you not understand? One with all your credibility, knowledge and experience, surely you didn't get confused did you?
Can I refer you to the mods previous comment and request you quit trolling? Go open a topic in NHB if you can't help yourself sniping.
-
Same as why on icq you get invitations to video chat from enterprising exhibitionists. I get a few per week. I have to leave icq open for chats with folks that aren't buddies for business purposes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICQ
Chat and video chat platforms provide good and often free infrastructure to sell their warez without using a middleman who takes a cut for providing their platform. Just about any woman can make make a few bucks with a webcam and computer at home.
BC, I guess you're trying to play devil's advocate, but I wasn't referring to women luring men to check out a porn site.
I was referring to women that actually lure men to their country, in particular the type of men that have been used to excuse the passage of IMBRA and apparently forthcoming legislation. Has this happened to you on ICQ? It hasn't to me and my ICQ is literally on 24 hours / day unless I am restarting my computer. It hasn't happened to me on Mamba.
Regarding spam, compare the volume that you mentioned. I get maybe 2-3 spam per day on ICQ (I get a pop up to auto block it). On Mamba I received about 5 spam over a period of 6 months. Those are on very open sites.
On HRB you can get up to 50 spam chat requests at any moment you are logged on. That's on a site with a much lower population that IRQ or Mamba and that boasts how it has the best monitoring and policing in the dating industry. You really don't see the difference?
To me it's clear that while on one system (ICQ) the spam do slip through, on the other (HRB) the spam are a welcomed part of their business model. Do you disagree?
-
I bet that is *really* inconvenient for your -- as yet undisclosed -- agenda here isn't it?
Has your deluded mind thought about what my 'undisclosed agenda' might be?
An answer would be amusing for sure.
For our readers, my agenda has been the same since my first days posting on RWG.
When I first found that board I had already been to Russia and had many Russian friends, but I had no first hand experience with the 'bride business'. I was planning a trip to Russia and Ukraine and at that time exchanging some emails and phone conversations with a gal in Ukraine that I just couldn't figure out.
First of all she was cute and 5 years younger than me. She was in no way 'out of my league' but her video did attract me.
Her emails came every day but were odd to me, not like a typical email conversation, more like a happy form letter with my name inserted throughout. I'd seen her video, heard her voice on the video and talked to her on the phone. Same gal for sure. On the phone she was the same as in her emails, strangely enthusiastic and impersonal at the same time. If she had asked me for cash it all would have been clear. But she didn't. She wanted me to come visit.
I'm no dummy, but I didn't get it. I guessed that she wanted me to come spend a bit of cash on her, but like I said, I already had friends in Russia. I couldn't imagine any of them being so desperate to lure a guy across the world and have him waste a few thousand bucks just so she could get a few fancy dinners and a new coat.
Well, truth is stranger than fiction and the RWG set me straight. I found a guy on the site who was talking to the same gal and she was scheduling time with him right after she expected I would leave. (When 'her vacation was over'). So the pieces fell into place. Pro-dater who doesn't care if her sucker spends 2000 bucks for every 500 she gets. Pathetic, but it happens.
A month later, armed with some good advice from the RWG, I headed to Russia for the second time in my life, met some nice ladies, made some good friends, found a serious gal and had a blast!
Since then my 'agenda' hasn't changed: share my experience, tell stories and most of all return the favor and help guys from being mislead. Over the years many guys have benefited from my advice and I've been thanked many times for it.
What is Manny's 'agenda'? Plain and simple: profit. :usdeyes:
What is Tom's 'agenda'? Considering his current attitudes come after being wined and dined by an agency owner who publicly declared a lucrative business opportunity involving earnings of $250,000 per month for little work, I'll let you guys take a guess.
The rest of you playing devil's advocate, I will still counter, as while you are entertaining yourself, my main agenda is still to help.
-
What is Tom's 'agenda'? Considering his current attitudes come after being wined and dined by an agency owner who publicly declared a lucrative business opportunity involving earnings of $250,000 per month for little work, I'll let you guys take a guess.
As I have told others privately, CEO didn't propose any business arrangements with me; he simply did exactly as he promised and, at no time, misrepresented himself. This is in sharp contrast to the way that you misrepresent the statements of others (especially mine). My comments from the old RWG can be viewed on the link that Billy provided. Based on that, you would be hard pressed to show how my "current attitudes" differ from my previous attitudes. Not to worry, in the absence of hard evidence, one can simply speculate, project and lie.
I can't say that my cameo appearance was a complete waste of time, however. It validated my initial reluctance to post any meaningful content.
-
That depends on what you call rational.
Spending $3000 and one week to make a trip across the ocean, spend hundreds on communication but not send a $50 gift that the woman may enjoy just as much as a personal appearance.
It is one thing to send some flowers using a non-agency service to a woman you will be visiting on a WOVO after weeks or months of communication by phone/email/Skype, and sending flowers to a woman on an HRB-type site with the hopes that the hottie will choose you if you are the first to send her the flowers (as I believe TomT hinted). The latter reeks of desperation and IMHO would be utter foolishness :popcorn:
-
It is one thing to send some flowers using a non-agency service to a woman you will be visiting on a WOVO after weeks or months of communication by phone/email/Skype, and sending flowers to a woman on an HRB-type site with the hopes that the hottie will choose you if you are the first to send her the flowers (as I believe TomT hinted). The latter reeks of desperation and IMHO would be utter foolishness :popcorn:
And where it is suggested that the latter is a good policy ? Just because they offer the service and advertise it, does not mean they recommend sending every woman that contacts a gift.
-
And where it is suggested that the latter is a good policy ? Just because they offer the service and advertise it, does not mean they recommend sending every woman that contacts a gift.
Read the original post that I replied to :)
-
My comments from the old RWG can be viewed on the link that Billy provided. Based on that, you would be hard pressed to show how my "current attitudes" differ from my previous attitudes. Not to worry, in the absence of hard evidence, one can simply speculate, project and lie.
Tom, could you point out to me where in the old thread or any other from that period where you:
1) Recommended HRB as a good way for a guy to find a bride.
I don't recall you ever recommending HRB, AWeb or any of these less reputable sites that follow the same business model in the past. If you did, please show us a link. What I see is that your attitude towards recommending these type of sites changed after your HRB visit although you have never used the site yourself.
2) Recommend that agencies monitor your communications.
I believe you did applaud this practice on the current RUA HRB thread. I do recall that you sensibly have recommended direct contact in the past. That's a change in attitude. Is my recollection wrong? Have you always recommended agencies that restrict direct contact?
3) Recommend 'sifting the wheat from the chaff' as a good way for a guy to find a bride.
I do recall you often defending women who are listed as scammers in the past. Now, rather than defend these women, you are admitting they are spammers to be sifted through and avoided. Again, that's a change in attitude, and I believe it's because it's too foolish to come to the defense of such obvious intentional deception.
The issue is not about the legality of Mr. Pearson's business. In that respect I agreed with you back then as I do now. The guy has himself well covered legally. Who cares? That's not the 'core issue' here.
Regarding me misrepresenting what you said in the past in that thread, I'll take the liberty of copying all of your posts from that thread here:
Class Action Suit Against HotRussianBrides
Posted Tuesday, January 10, 2006 at 5:07 PM
Chris,
If I were a juror and I read your last post, I would conclude that your prospective civil suit is frivolous. If I were in HRB's position, my next move would be a countersuit. In this case, you would definitely need to pay for an attorney.
Why you are posting information that is so damaging to yourself on the Internet is beyond me.
Class Action Suit Against HotRussianBrides
Posted Tuesday, January 10, 2006 at 5:17 PM
Chris,
You seem to not be getting my point.
Electronic communications are admissible in court. You have stated that your purpose for your prospective classification lawsuit is to drive HRB into bankruptcy. These words can get you into legal difficulty. If you are serious about a lawsuit, you should get some qualified legal advice.
FYI, it would be illegal for someone to tell you that you should delete evidence.
Class Action Suit Against HotRussianBrides
Posted Thursday, January 12, 2006 at 11:38 AM
Scott Jay has been reading this thread. He said that the idea of a class action lawsuit against HRB is bull*snip*. He would post for himself but he can't login.
You may now resume your off-topic chatter or your delusional bull*snip*, as the case may be.
That's it. Nothing about your general attitudes in favor of HRB as a viable bridal site. So to point to that thread as a comparison is disingenuous.
Now if you can show me posts in those past years where you recommended HRB or similar sites that don't allow direct communication and where you have to sift through the spam, let's see it.
Maybe I am wrong and if you can point it out, ok. I just recall your advice to be far more sensible than now.
In fact, in recent thread about AWeb on RUA where a guy had to go through the trouble of separating a lady from the agency you say:
The process seems excruciating but I suppose that one has to balance this against the large number of ladies on such sites
Hardly a recommendation of these type of agencies. Yet you do recommend HRB although you've never used it. :rolleyes2:
-
BC, I guess you're trying to play devil's advocate, but I wasn't referring to women luring men to check out a porn site.
I was referring to women that actually lure men to their country, in particular the type of men that have been used to excuse the passage of IMBRA and apparently forthcoming legislation. Has this happened to you on ICQ? It hasn't to me and my ICQ is literally on 24 hours / day unless I am restarting my computer. It hasn't happened to me on Mamba.
Regarding spam, compare the volume that you mentioned. I get maybe 2-3 spam per day on ICQ (I get a pop up to auto block it). On Mamba I received about 5 spam over a period of 6 months. Those are on very open sites.
On HRB you can get up to 50 spam chat requests at any moment you are logged on. That's on a site with a much lower population that IRQ or Mamba and that boasts how it has the best monitoring and policing in the dating industry. You really don't see the difference?
To me it's clear that while on one system (ICQ) the spam do slip through, on the other (HRB) the spam are a welcomed part of their business model. Do you disagree?
Think I understand Jooky. Yes I do like to play devil's advocate and use Occam's Razor to try and simplify seemingly complex problems.
Obviously you and others are receiving unsolicited invitations from someone at HRB. If it's from actual women, then it's simply unsolicited invitations. If they are produced somehow by HRB then I would classify it as SPAM. - still a rather long shot from claiming SCAM. I guess we could generally agree that many RW related commercial enterprises generate solicitations, usually within their contractual terms, with the main difference being the amount which you and others and even I might find unreasonable or objectionable.
I think it's also reasonable to assume that enterprising ladies might use a number of platforms to entice. Given that HRB is video oriented, one might consider that it would likely receive a higher level of participation for those in that game.
Regarding men lured to FSU by such ladies, I have to wonder about that a little bit. Skimming off the top of these websites would seem to be a lot more profitable than the hassle of going further. I bet there are few confused guys left standing at the airport arrival hall in Borispol or SVO every day for a variety of causes regardless of source. From your experience you like Mamba, that's great and good thought food for those listening. I do wonder about some in their top 100 though.. - see attachment - how many would consider travel for her? What's her game?
Whether or not this 'situation' is condoned by HRB is a question I can't answer, but only speculate about - it will be up to CEO to clarify that point.
-
Call it scam, spam, rip-off, whatever. What you name it isn't that important. It is what it is, and it's not ladies contacting you with sincere interest.
What we call it, or whether the CEO is legally liable is irrelevant here in my opinion. It's more useful to do as Dan suggested and put together a list of pros and cons of various sites, and this should include things that most likely happen at agencies, not in order to condemn them but to alert clients to what they are most likely working around, and whether, given the other available options, it's worth it to do so.
For example, a lot of small agencies recruit women. Agencies are required to bring in a certain amount of revenue or be dropped by larger sites. Is this good or bad? Hey, a woman can be recruited and paid and might still fall in love.
Still, we should let men know that this stuff does happen often rather than pretend it's a 'few slipping through the cracks', make excuses for it or philosophize about what whether we should call this a scam or not.
Buyer beware... so let's help the buyer know what to beware rather than call him stupid for not figuring it out on his own. Now, if he still falls for the fake girls after all of our sage advice, then call him stupid. :P
I do wonder about some in their top 100 though.. - see attachment - how many would consider travel for her? What's her game?
Not sure, I'd have to talk to her. Maybe a hooker. Maybe a fake ad for a porn site. Maybe just a horny chick. Whatever her game is, I doubt she's luring Westerners to Russia for any reason, especially in the pretense of being a good bride.
-
Skimming off the top of these websites would seem to be a lot more profitable than the hassle of going further.
For the main site, I agree.
For the small local agency, I don't. If the agency lures a westerner to Ukraine, they also profit from additional dates, gifts, taxis, tours, apartment rentals, interpreters and other services. Small agencies do usually have a support system that they need to keep fed and alive.
-
As I have told others privately, CEO didn't propose any business arrangements with me; he simply did exactly as he promised and, at no time, misrepresented himself. This is in sharp contrast to the way that you misrepresent the statements of others (especially mine). My comments from the old RWG can be viewed on the link that Billy provided. Based on that, you would be hard pressed to show how my "current attitudes" differ from my previous attitudes. Not to worry, in the absence of hard evidence, one can simply speculate, project and lie.
I can't say that my cameo appearance was a complete waste of time, however. It validated my initial reluctance to post any meaningful content.
>>It validated my initial reluctance to post any meaningful content.<<
Which is most unfortunate - though understandable (to me) given the tenor of the debate.
>>My comments from the old RWG can be viewed on the link that Billy provided.<<
BillyB's post is here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=12679.msg250201#msg250201, and the link he provided is here -- http://www.russianwomenforums.com/messages.cfm?threadid=BD6B6848-F207-AE0E-05D9FE2B1D7190D9&page=1.
For those readers who may be unaware of the 'history' (and I suspect there are more than a few) - there used to be an active forum called RWGuide (RWG for short). That forum was sold and sold again, and it now seems adrift in the internet with no direction or participation, yet some of the older topics and posts are retained there, hence, BillyB's link over to it.
I found it interesting to read. Just as BillyB stated, most of the comments in this topic in 2010 are similar, if not identical, to comments made by those same people in 2006. Not much has changed overall.
I'll have some more comments to add later. I am processing a lot of what is being said (written) and it has been a useful topic - for a number of reasons.
More later.
- Dan
-
I especially like the 99.9% customer satisfaction rate HRB and its friends crow about. Thats a hoot. :rolleyes2: They link "customer satisfaction" to their low chargeback rate. Yet, if you look close one see's that the member clicks a box agreeing to NOT do a CC chargeback and that he agrees that services were delivered.
I don't know about others, but I can't think of one single legitimate store or business I've used where I agree to not do a chargeback if I have a problem with their business. I can't think of a brick and mortar store or restaurant where I have to agree to that. Can't think of a single internet store where that is required by the merchant. Bought a few things on Amazon yesterday--no chargeback agreement.
Never heard of that "no chargeback" agreement with EM or LL myself. I wonder. What businesses use the no chargeback model? I know Casinos don't. 8)
HRB does not stand up to scrutiny or the light of day. There are far better alternatives for serious guy. For a guy who wants soft core chat, .thats another thing and HRB is probably fine and those guys will never complain. :P
-
CEO’s appearance here has generated a spirited discussion. I am about to disappear for a couple of weeks (a RW is coming to see me on a WOVO trip :kissing:). So I wanted to summarize my thoughts.
I, perhaps like many others, had considered HRB the same as Anastasia Web. My opinion was based on Sculpto’s well documented experience and to a smaller degree reports made outside of RWD.
It walked like a duck, it quacked like a duck and it crapped like a duck. Thus, I assumed HRB was the same as AW.
After participating in this thread, I don’t think that association is fair. That is based on TomT’s posts, CEO’s posts, the devil's advocates and my own review of the HRB webpages (something that I had never done before). I find CEO plausible when he explained that much of the bad press was false testimony as part of a smear campaign by competitors.
If HRB is not AW (which I consider at the bottom of the totem pole), just how far above AW is HRB?
What is good about HRB? Frankly, I liked the attitude of the CEO. Can you imagine the AW President participating at RWD and defending his socials, etc.? CEO claims that he is striving to fix the problems of the past. I await more news about the specific corrective initiatives he has implemented, and meanwhile it is reasonable to give him the benefit of any doubt. CEO does need to be more forthright.
Also, I like the concept of HRB's video chats. I have used Skype video this past year and find this technique far more enlightening (and fun) than the telephone calls of the past.
What is not good about HRB?
- The high number of aggressive girls soliciting business at login.
- The soft porn.
- The hard sell to make gift shop purchases.
- The hype (some of it).
- The implied risk of funneling all correspondence through agency staff.
- The non-disclosure by most women of their acceptable age range for a man.
- The opportunity for misconduct by local agencies.
- The much higher cost for the correspondence-chat phase than other options.
In summary, HRB is better than AW. Nevertheless, I would not recommend HRB because there are lower cost options with less implied risk.
Another man may believe that the HRB women justify the added cost. I will admit that the added cost is small compared to the total cost of courting, marrying, supporting and mentoring a RW.
-
I especially like the 99.9% customer satisfaction rate HRB and its friends crow about. Thats a hoot. :rolleyes2: They link "customer satisfaction" to their low chargeback rate. Yet, if you look close one see's that the member clicks a box agreeing to NOT do a CC chargeback and that he agrees that services were delivered.
That is certainly sophistry at its finest/worst :o
-
For the main site, I agree.
For the small local agency, I don't. If the agency lures a westerner to Ukraine, they also profit from additional dates, gifts, taxis, tours, apartment rentals, interpreters and other services. Small agencies do usually have a support system that they need to keep fed and alive.
I'm quoting myself because I wanted to add one more thing. Why I said Ukraine and not the FSU. Of HRB's nearly 14,000 profiles, over 11,000 of them are in Ukraine. Less than 2000 are in Russia.
29 are in Moscow
25 in St. Pete
9 in Novosibirsk
None of the Russian ladies are online.
Anyone care to apply Occam's Razor as to why?
-
Also, I like the concept of HRB's video chats. I have used Skype video this past year and find this technique far more enlightening (and fun) than the telephone calls of the past.
How can you compare it to a Skype video chat? Skype is two way and has voice enabled.
-
One thing that would be helpful. Can TomT post his audit plan and audit procedures he performed. He does not need to post his findings. Just what he did.
All audits start with a planning phase prior to fieldwork. He should have developed his audit plan including detailed procedures with sample sizes prior to going to Florida. The fieldwork stage is done on location and important that the auditor is independent of the auditee. The final stage is independent review by a higher level approver to make sure nothing was missed.
Also, an auditor needs to be certified to do so in this case more forensic auditing and compliance.
I doubt any of the above happened but the 50 plus audit procedures TomT did would be helpful. Who knows what he really looked at. Could have been looking for a RW.
We really can conclude nothing from his audit except HRM did offer to open his shop up but to an unqualified auditor.
I looked on the HRB site last night - I did not post a profile but you can search by women wearing lingerie. Interesting search function.
I think we should have a discussion on what audit procedures should have been done before we make conclusions about HRM. To be fair to HRM the audit was a joke but that is what happens when you get someone not certified to do an audit.
You really need to do an audit on cash. If HRM receives cash / revenue from locations in Ukraine or Russia than there part of the audit scope as well. So you would need to visit 25% of all the locations sending money plus HQ to come up with an opinion on scam or not.
-
How can you compare it to a Skype video chat? Skype is two way and has voice enabled.
I assume this means HRB's video chats involve nothing more than a woman sitting in a chair and communicating with text messages. Tell me it isn't so! That's dreadful if true. That's so lame. What a joke!
And I assume the woman does not operate the keyboard. So who knows if the text is her thinking. BTW, what does a man pay for a live cam observation?
Keep digging Jooky. You are doing a masterful job of reporting the important facts.
-
From the same place (RWG) as Billy's/Dan's links, 13 pages of customers experiences with HRB circa: 2006-07. Same CEO spouting the SOS. :rolleyes2: :rolleyes2: :rolleyes2:
http://www.russianwomenforums.com/messages.cfm?messageid=C4499741-F207-AE0E-0439F75BBAFBA649
-
I assume this means HRB's video chats involve nothing more than a woman sitting in a chair and communicating with text messages. Tell me it isn't so! That's dreadful if true. That's so lame. What a joke!
And I assume the woman does not operate the keyboard. So who knows if the text is her thinking. BTW, what does a man pay for a live cam observation?
Keep digging Jooky. You are doing a masterful job of reporting the important facts.
They pay way too much.
-
I assume this means HRB's video chats involve nothing more than a woman sitting in a chair and communicating with text messages. Tell me it isn't so! That's dreadful if true. That's so lame. What a joke!
And I assume the woman does not operate the keyboard. So who knows if the text is her thinking. BTW, what does a man pay for a live cam observation?
That's what it is. If you like, you can just pay to watch as the lady chats with the other men on the line. :rolleyes2:
Cost is 2 credits / minute. That's .80 to $1.20 depending on how much you buy up front.
They're covered though. It never says 'chat with her live'. It says 'see her live'.
They don't provide video chat. They provide a text chat / live video streaming combination.
Ready for an online experience unlike any other? The wait is over! With our Live Video Streaming/Chat service, you can "validate" each lady with your very own eyes! Chat with a Russian beauty online and watch her smile and laugh as she reads your instant messages! Or, simply click the "Live Web cam" Icon and watch a lady to enjoy Video Streaming
Since HotRussianBrides.com deals only with validated women through Dating Agencies, the chances of running into a fake person or someone trying to deceive you are much lower. We are not saying that issues don't occur from time to time, as we have over 13,000 different women, with as many different intentions and motivations, but we do everything in our power to prevent it from happening.
As an additional security feature for our male members, HotRussianBrides.com offers a one-way video steaming/chat combination that ensures that the person you are chatting with is a real woman.
Also, whereas mainstream Websites expect other members to police the site for potential issues, we take the initiative to monitor communications and filter potential scammers or inappropriate behavior on the site.
Can the ladies see me if I have a web cam?
No. Our web streaming service is currently one-way only, meaning you can view the ladies but they can't view you. Why? Two reasons: bandwidth, and the high cost of Internet service in Russia.
In Russia, you can't pay $50 a month and enjoy unlimited broadband Internet access. The Independent Company/agency Representatives with which we work pay for their Internet service in the same manner in which you pay your utility bill. It's based upon usage. The more you use, the higher the bill.
I pay around 40 bucks / month for my unlimited bandwidth in Novosibirsk. I have the highest speed package. Cheaper unlimited packages are available all over Russia.
Or, simply click on the "Live Web Cam" Icon to sample our unique "One-Way Video Streaming" without even having to engage in Chat!
Yay! That leaves my hands free to perform some 'validation'! :P
-
Same CEO spouting the SOS. :rolleyes2: :rolleyes2: :rolleyes2:
We have beaten this horse for 12 pages now. :deadhorse: Yet, I am still learning.
There are so many areas where HRB can be improved. This is not rocket science. So why hasn't CEO made these improvements in the past 4 years?
Shadow indicated that HRB's male clients are mostly "trash." Evidently so, and trash love the soft porn, the titillating greeters, the scantily clad girl "live" on a webcam, and the fantasy that a young sweetie would marry him and be his cook, maid and sex slave. To rid the site of such would drive away his typical client.
I still don't know why CEO came here thinking he could make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. And why did people like me give him the benefit of the doubt? I have seen enough. Bye.
Jooky, please don't let up. However, I have a feeling that all the supporters and devil's advocates will disappear or try to divert the discussion.
-
You just gotta laugh at the whole thing:
http://www.russianwomenforums.com/messages.cfm?threadid=BD6B6049-F207-AE0E-0CEFBA15B3DDF40F
http://www.russianwomenforums.com/messages.cfm?threadid=BD6BD48F-F207-AE0E-01DFA859A00FA950
http://www.russianwomenforums.com/messages.cfm?threadid=BD92CFFD-F207-AE0E-064AC243DA1A197C
HRB's been dirty for years
it appears. :evil:
-
Gator. I remember HRB from years ago. In my opinion the only thing they've done in the last five years is make it easier to spend money faster on their site.
I got booted off the site. They never did explain exactly why. Whats funny is the two sex talking gals Ladypassion and Sweetsecret are still there. But I'm sure they make the site a lot more money than I would ever spend there.
-
There are so many areas where HRB can be improved. This is not rocket science. So why hasn't CEO made these improvements in the past 4 years?
I would expect there is a higher profit margin with sex chat girls than with the side business of matchmaking. My contention is, why not keep it separate at least from the user end?
I still don't know why CEO came here thinking he could make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. And why did people like me give him the benefit of the doubt? I have seen enough. Bye.
The timing of it all I find very suspicious but, CEO did make a case. Not a very sincere one when look at the history but a case none the less
Jooky, please don't let up. However, I have a feeling that all the supporters and devil's advocates will disappear or try to divert the discussion.
I agree. Excellent job on Jooky's part. The attempted diversion is already well documented
-
One thing that would be helpful. Can TomT post his audit plan and audit procedures he performed. He does not need to post his findings. Just what he did.
I believe that your questions have already been covered in my thread about our Florida trip on the other forum. I used the word "audit" twice in said thread. In one case, it was enclosed in single quotation marks to denote apologetic usage. In the second case, it was used to refer to a financial audit, not anything in which I was involved. At no point did I ever present myself as a qualified auditor and an argument built on some other presumption will be quite fallacious, indeed.
-
Not to worry, in the absence of hard evidence, one can simply speculate, project and lie.
I am seeing a lot of this on this topic here. It seems the perpetrators mostly go unchallenged by the membership.
It pains me to drag it up, but Jooky has a history of this behaviour. He and his sidekicks departure from RUA a couple of years ago was under a similar cloud of speculation and lies. Its all still there if you search "Cisco" in topic subject. Jooky is on his soapbox. Whilst he does make some points worthy of good discussion, he has now gotten so excited that he is quoting himself, making some stuff up to fill in the gaps, and simply ignoring the inconvenient stuff that doesn't support his theories. His position can be simplified as this: "HRB are breaking no laws, I don't like them, I think women can be met cheaper elsewhere." The rest is fluff, propaganda and and gap filling that one would expect to see in an anti-capitalist student union rally circa 1986.
Gator and BC have mostly talked sense; although Gator became easily led and fell of the wagon of reason and logic the last few posts.
Tim has accused me of "recommending" this site, yet when challenged, he quotes some random text that was anything but, and refused to apologise. He then accused CEO of "trolling for investors at RUA" and I am aware of no such event ever happening. More made up stuff. No links, no quotes, no validation.
Various people have accused Tom of various things; mostly complete fabrication by those who have not actually took the trouble to read. Tom chooses his words carefully. Why put yours in his mouth? Go read his findings at RUA and CEO's comments about that trip -- its all there. Why speculate when its in black and white?
Faux Pas started off twisting some words, playing one-upmanship and "I must have the last word" as usual, then went off on a rant about whores and then just started trolling; he just basically showed himself up in rather an embarrassing fashion. He has had the good sense to keep hush the last couple of pages. Lets hope that continues. [Edit -- it seems not hehe]
Very few people are actually reading what is written. Many are seizing on the fabrications of others and presenting that information, second hand, as facts. Because somebody wrote it, doesn't means its true. I would suggest to those debating here to re-read the topic, noting what has actually been said by various parties. Look at the actual words posted and not your (or someone else's) interpretation of them.
Through all the mudslinging, several facts remain:
- HRB have verified marriages. Many of them.
- HRB validate that the featured women exist.
- The video feature allows you to validate the women actually exist.
- No agency can guarantee the motivation of their members. That's your job.
- The CEO is not shy of forum participation (can you say the same of Aweb and others?)
- The CEO has admitted the business model is not perfect, and has plans to improve it.
- It is not possible to have a "perfect" business model, when that model involves a country so corrupt and poor as Ukraine. "Not bad" is the best you are ever likely to see.
- The video feature, whilst not state of the art now, was cutting edge six or seven years ago when first introduced.
Its easy for a bunch of blokes to make some fake accounts and harp about a handful of women (from double digit thousands) homing in on them. Anyone can do that. That smacks of tabloid sensationalism. The real facts might be ascertained by putting up a proper profile, spending a little bit of cash, contacting some age appropriate women who seem genuine, and seeing how that goes. In the event of a genuine problem, call their office in Florida, complain, and see how that complaint is handled. Report back on the customer service. Report back on how the staff were with you on the phone. Don't they have "hostesses" there? Aren't they kinda like forum moderators? You can report iffy stuff to them live? Did anyone who made a fake profile bother to do that? How did that work out? Or was it too easy to rush back here with a screenshot or two and start babbling about "Hottie26" where Jooky couldn't quite make out a nipple?
Really, are we thirteen years old? Or are we adults who understand the society we delve in for women?
-
TomT-
FWIW, I'm not interested as to whether or not there's women with jiggling breasts on HRB...but rather something with a little more substance, no pun intended.
If the exercises professed here was true, folks signing up for membership then being bombarded/spammed by invitations to chat, communicate, etc....how do all of these fall into compliance with IMBRA? From an outsider's POV, it almost seem as though a man signs in, then he gets crammed with invitations to chat, communicate, etc...seemingly as though IMBRA's protocol is altogether shunned. If this is true, then is HRB responsible for non-compliance?
Mind expanding on this if you know...
-
handful of women (from double digit thousands) homing in on them
450 women contacting a single man over the course of 3 days is not 'a handful'.
Not sure why you bring up the Cisco situation. That can be summed up as follows:
Don created the Cisco account. You had control of it when we handed over the board.
The Cisco account posted several times on RUA, in support of one of your ideas, a review in support of your book and then in an argument discussing Russian personal sites that I was part of.
I checked the IPs used to post with the Cisco account. These were Don's, an AOL IP from England (which I can only assume was you) and and another IP in the States.
I suspected you were posting as Cisco and I posted my suspicions. You denied it.
On the phone you demanded I post an apology and first told me that the Cisco account was being used by some random guy who for some reason was unable to create a proper account of his own. Because he could not make an account you gave him the Cisco login.
However, as you grew upset with me on the phone you slipped up.
You admitted that Cisco was not some random guy, but your book editor.
I told you I would not apologize as I see your 'book editor' as an agent representing you. I posted that accepted that Cisco was not you and I posted regarding our conversation. I was later informed that my final words on this subject were removed. Nice cover up.
To conclude:
1) You were caught in a blatant lie. From that point on I don't trust a single word you say.
2) Whether the poster behind Cisco was you or your book editor, the use of this account to post in your favor was disingenuous.
3) The book editor posting a positive review of your book, pretending to be unconnected to the product is an insult to your posters.
At that point I quit posting on the RUA. Not sure why you wanted to dredge that up now. It doesn't help your credibility. You can't have Brass censor me here.
You're right I left under a cloud of speculation and lies.
The speculation came from me.
The lies came from you.
PS: Does anyone here have a copy of Manny's book. It'd be interesting to know who this mysterious editor is.
-
Tim has accused me of "recommending" this site, yet when challenged, he quotes some (#1) random text that was anything but, and refused to apologise. He then (2) accused CEO of "trolling for investors at RUA" and I am aware of no such event ever happening. More made up (#3) stuff No links, no quotes, no validation.
Have a little cheese with your whine Manny. :blowkiss:
1. Your words page one. Highlighted in bold. You've been whitewashing HRB all along. Anyone who can read can see you are HRB's cheerleader. Your tacit defacto recommendation for HRB is scattered all over this thread. Boringly so. Again any reader can read and draw their own conclusions about HRB and you.
2. Not me. Maybe you are all heated up and confused? Calm down. Don't need your apology. Kumbuya.
3. Made up stuff? I don't have the imagination to make all that HRB schlit up. Back in 2006-07 same old problems, just read the RWG links.
Would a sane man use HRB to look for a bride...of course not. You are a good HRB cheerleader though, keep up the good work. Rah! Rah! Rah!
[/list]
-
TomT-
FWIW, I'm not interested as to whether or not there's women with jiggling breasts on HRB...but rather something with a little more substance, no pun intended.
If the exercises professed here was true, folks signing up for membership then being bombarded/spammed by invitations to chat, communicate, etc....how do all of these fall into compliance with IMBRA? From an outsider's POV, it almost seem as though a man signs in, then he gets crammed with invitations to chat, communicate, etc...seemingly as though IMBRA's protocol is altogether shunned. If this is true, then is HRB responsible for non-compliance?
Mind expanding on this if you know...
As long as contact information is not exchanged, there are no IMBRA issues. Clients can chat with as many spammers as their stupidity and their pocketbook will allow. Safeguards are in place to prevent the exchange of said information and, if clients use extraordinary means to circumvent them, it's not the IMB's liability.
-
OK..thx TomT.
-
Wow Manny you said a lot and put everyone in their place didn't you? Your whining, ad hominem attacks and continued shilling is getting rather tiring and now your credibility appears in the deficit from an accounting standpoint.
Manny you should just stop and go away. It would appear to me you have been effectively dismissed :cluebat:
-
Hey guys,
The cross-board stuff proves nothing. The only relevance in any of the cross-board materials was simply to show a pattern - NOT to dredge up ancient history and all the ill will that went along with that.
Candidly, I see a LOT of guys just 'talking past each other' in this topic. To a large extent, it is related to the fact that we see what it is we WANT to see.
In the not-so-distant past there were guys who wanted to see my actions here at RWD in a particular 'light' and so they placed all my actions into that context - in the process, drawing quite a number of fallacious conclusions. Some of those are known to a great many of you - and some of those may be found at the old RWG forum linked upthread.
The point being - it is a natural human condition to evaluate a situation in the context of those things that YOU individually have declared as important to you, and then find the elements of that situation to support your beliefs.
It is rare, indeed, to find someone with a truly open mind on most any topic.
So a couple of things:
* Please leave the old 'issues' from RWG and or RUA and or anywhere else out of THIS topic. If there is relevant material posted elsewhere (as in - directly relevant to THIS topic at RWD and directly supportive in some way), that is OK - but the other stuff just fosters a huge amount of ill will unnecessarily.
* I would like it if everyone would stop the personalizing and focus on the FACTS.
All for now.
- Dan
-
It pains me to drag it up, but Jooky has a history of this behaviour. He and his sidekicks departure from RUA a couple of years ago was under a similar cloud of speculation and lies. Its all still there if you search "Cisco" in topic subject. Jooky is on his soapbox. Whilst he does make some points worthy of good discussion, he has now gotten so excited that he is quoting himself, making some stuff up to fill in the gaps, and simply ignoring the inconvenient stuff that doesn't support his theories. His position can be simplified as this: "HRB are breaking no laws, I don't like them, I think women can be met cheaper elsewhere." The rest is fluff, propaganda and and gap filling that one would expect to see in an anti-capitalist student union rally circa 1986.
Faux Pas started off twisting some words, playing one-upmanship and "I must have the last word" as usual, then went off on a rant about whores and then just started trolling; he just basically showed himself up in rather an embarrassing fashion. He has had the good sense to keep hush the last couple of pages. Lets hope that continues. [Edit -- it seems not hehe]
...and Manny it is really bad form for you to personally denigerate Jooky or Faux Pas just because they may not agree with your exalted opinion. They can have their opinions too. This is not Manny's little board and you don't run the show here. Your personal insults to members here should not be tolerated. Don't care if you don't like Jooky--don't bring that crap here. I must say you do present a poor public image for your commercial businesses. You come off as one rude dude. One would expect better from a commercial member--but maybe not in this business.
I don't know Stu, but maybe you should take a little vacation from the internet and calm down a tad. Kumbuya. :blowkiss:
-
And just to lighten the mood a tad, I shamelessly stole this post from one of the guys over at PL. It is completely and totally :offtopic:
Enjoy:
Subject: SPEEDING IN OREGON
GOOD
A Bend, Oregon policeman had a perfect spot to watch for speeders, but wasn't getting many. Then he discovered the problem -- a 12-year-old boy was standing up the road with a hand painted sign, which read 'RADAR TRAP AHEAD.' The officer also found the boy had an accomplice who was down the road with a sign reading 'TIPS' and a bucket full of money. (And we used to just sell lemonade!)
BETTER
A motorist was mailed a picture of his car speeding through an automated radar post in Pendleton, Oregon . A $40 speeding ticket was included. Being cute, he sent the police department a picture of $40. The police responded with another mailed photo of handcuffs.
BEST
A young woman was pulled over for speeding. An Oregon State Trooper walked to her car window, flipping open his ticket book. She said, "I bet you are going to sell me a ticket to the State Trooper's Ball." He replied, "Oregon State Troopers don't have balls." There was a moment of silence. He then closed his book, tipped his hat, got back in his patrol car and left.
PS: Gator - while admittedly a diversion, it should serve principally to get people to crack a smile before reverting back to their flamethrowers.
-
Yeah, damned speedtraps...
http://www.speedtrap.org/
But I don't know Dan, I thought my post #202 was pretty funny.
-
Wow, Manny! You said a lot and put everyone in their place, didn't you? Your whining, ad hominem attacks and continued shilling are getting rather tiring and, now, your credibility appears in the debit column, from an accounting standpoint.
Manny, you should just stop and go away. It would appear to me you have been effectively dismissed :cluebat:
Count your blessings. Someone with less patience would have simply ignored you instead of writing a comprehensive answer.
-
I'd like to dredge up something Dan wrote on (what is now) another topic.
He is bang on the money there. Time and time again I see people agonizing over spending a few dollars. Guys used to book my wife for a 30 minute three-way-translated-call and try and take 40 minutes. Many of the guys who arrive on forums soon become obsessed with free sites. The thought of spending a few bob pains them. A guy told me a while ago that our book was too expensive at $29. Ye gods, $9 of that is postage! :P My wife laughed her head off when I told her and said "Another greedy-free one? I won't work for him"
Believe it or not, women are not obsessed with free sites. Most sites are free for women. Most women are concerned with keeping the whack jobs at arms length. That is best done using an agency of some kind. Whack jobs abound in this industry. That isn't a secret to the women y'know. They know that! Women don't want greedy (read cheap-assed) men.
Now look at the HRB model as it is discussed here. We know already that only about 5% of men ever get on a plane. That leaves 95% as wannabes and Keyboard Romeos. These women discussed above vacuum up the 95% and syphon off those who have money to burn to discuss licking chocolate off their popka. Why not? Go on any free site and the professional women are there too. Are those men who enjoy that happy with what they get?
That says HRB are giving most paying clients what they want. That isn't just a theory; correlate it with the low charge-backs they get. Numbers don't lie.
Sensible men can see past all that stuff and go and find the marriage minded women there. Again, the numbers tell us there must be some because many people seem to be married. TomT saw the scrap book he described to be "like a telephone directory".
5% of serious men will do their homework and understand how this stuff works. Many of those will end up married.
Many men will agonize over spending a few dollars. I would be surprised if HRB even wanted those guys as clients. No business wants screamers who cry "scam" after spending $50. Those guys should stay on the free sites dreaming and/or spouting their stuff here. Its cheaper than actually getting on a plane eh guys?
Another group who have actually been on the plane, yet remain perpetually single, will lecture us all about how it "should be done". It didn't work out too well for some of them, but here they are with a four figure post count pecking at their keyboards slamming people who own these sites. Can they do better? Can they develop a better platform? Can they design a scam-free system where every knuckle shuffler hiding in Momma's basement gets himself a size zero supermodel wife? Of course not; or they would. Its easier to try to peck holes in others' business models from behind a keyboard isn't it?
People who run these sites are not running Sunday Schools. They need to pay the hosting bills, the translators, the staff in two (or more) countries, property costs, fund their systems and future development, pay taxes, card processing fees, every level of bureaucracy that is fired at businesses, and then seek a profit on top of that. Anyone who doesn't run a business really doesn't know the half of it.
As I said up thread, if you don't like the business model, use another service provider. There are several models to choose from. Simply because you don't like the business model doesn't make a site a "scam" site. It simply makes it not a site for you.
Manny--
$9.00 for postage?? where are you shipping your book from, Estonia?? I think you might sell more copies of your book if you made it available as an instant internet electronic download. you could probably sell it for $19.95, $14.95 or even $9.95; sell more copies than you are by shipping it, and make a higher profit for yourself. a win win situation for those who want to purchase it.
As for me I will wait until it reaches a 99 cent store--you can call me greedy, cheap or whatever, that is just all that I think it is worth since it is more or less a compilation of quotes from your website over at RUA. in the meantime I can read these forums at any time I wish to and obtain as much information as I want to for free.
guys, let's face the simple facts. when you go to Elena's Models--or even Mamba, you see realistic age gaps that the women are willing to accept. for example, a 20 year old girl will usually have an age gap of 5 years. a 25 year old young woman will have an age gap up to 7 years. a 30 year old woman might have an age gap up to 10 years. and a 40 year older or older woman will probably list an acceptable age gap of 15-20 years.
if you go to a website such as HRB, Anastasia Web or Army of Brides and you see a 20 year old hottie who states she will marry a man up to 50 years of age (and more!!) run don't walk.
don't bother wasting your time, energy or money on these fraudulent sites. remember the old saying: time is money!! the time you waste in your life on frivolous pursuits is priceless--you will never get it back. this is not cheap, it is simply logical and intelligent.
The American Heritage dictionary, 2nd College edition:
"greedy" 1. excessively desirous of acquiring or possessing something, especially in quantity.
(agency girls who will take you on never ending expensive shopping sprees, in order to maintain a "relationship")
2. wanting to eat or drink more than one can reasonably consume; gluttonous.
(agency girls who will take you to the most expensive restaurant in town, and eat and drink like there is no tomorrow, in order to get a kick-back for their agency and themselves)
Manny, is that what your wife is referring to when she calls potential clients "greedy"??
IMO you show your true character and motivations by insulting potential clients. it must be especially good for business to do it on a national forum!!
-
in this post I am not going to argue with certain people here about the possibility that you might maybe on a cold day in hell be able to marry a woman from HRB, I am going to post two alternatives:
1. EM, which many men here heartily recommend.
2. A Mordinson Introduction--- www.mordinson.com/
(make sure you put in the / , otherwise you will be sent to Aweb, those sneaky sob's!!
Mordinson--
flat rate agency--
$2250.00-- meet unlimited women, 7 days in luxury apartment, all interpretation by Michael Mordinson, who obtained english cert. from Cambridge. transfer to and from airport. help with grocery shopping, etc. one month of free letter writing back and forth to unlimited women.
$2500.00--ten days as above.
-
guys, let's face the simple facts. when you go to Elena's Models--or even Mamba, you see realistic age gaps that the women are willing to accept. for example, a 20 year old girl will usually have an age gap of 5 years. a 25 year old young woman will have an age gap up to 7 years. a 30 year old woman might have an age gap up to 10 years. and a 40 year older or older woman will probably list an acceptable age gap of 15-20 years.
The facts aren't as simple as you present them.
One case in point would be an FSU woman of 45 (for example). She bloody well wouldn't want to marry a 65-year-old because she considers him to be already dead. Nevermind that the male lifespan is twenty years longer in the West; that isn't part of her belief system.
Another example would be a twenty-year-old FSU girl. It may be true that most prefer guys approximately their age, but girls that age are likely to do any damn, crazy thing... even go after someone my age.
When one saws a few legs off the chair, it gets rather tippy.
-
As recommended, I had a chat with HRB's customer service regarding my apprehension at all the too young, scantily clad girls contacting me in the middle of the night in Russia.
As expected I received very slow canned responses, assuring me that everything was on the up and up and avoiding my direct questions.
At least the HRB defenders here admit these intros are just spam. HRB assured me that they were not.
The ladies are looking for serious relationships for marriage, before joining the site the ladies come in for a lengthy interview at the local agency, and the ladies must prove their identity and that they have sincere motivation to find love abroad
-
Count your blessings. Someone with less patience would have simply ignored you instead of writing a comprehensive answer.
There's nothing about Manny's rant I would consider a blessing. Just more of the same tripe I've come to expect from him. If this is the knowledge he brags about possessing, I'm not impressed. His credibility is forever in my mind attached to HRB. He is more than welcome to ignore me. Now that I would consider a blessing.
-
I'm sure CEO gained a few customers coming here. I've noticed over the years it always happens when he shows up. If 2 customers sign up spending a couple thousand a piece, it's worth a few minutes of his time here. I remember a poster writing a thread months later after CEO showed up some years ago regretting doing business with the company. He admitted CEO convinced him to try out his company. Year after year there have been lots of customers with regret.
Forget about the morally bankrupt men who are using HRB/RLM. Those men aren't supposed to be their targeted customer base. There are decent guys that signed up there and they did not intentionally pay for an illusion. If HRB/RLM is selling a fantasy as porn sites are, then whatever is happening there now is not an issue but they are advertising match making services, not a fantasy.
The saddest part of all this is not the money men lose but the lost opportunities between sincere men and women. Sincere people that want to find someone special in their life and waste their time at HRB/RLM. While the agency's video chat girls aggressively pursue all the attention, the girls who can't be on video chat 8 hours a day since she has to make a living and feed her family is left with few or none of the men writing them. The sincere men who get jaded by the bombardment of chat invites from good time girls quit and move onto something more realistic. HRB/RLM hampers the odds of success not only for men, but the sincere women there. It's not a level playing field for decent people to find decent people.
While HRB/RLM has a search engine to find women based on if they are or not wearing lingere, many of the FSU women don't know they are signing up for HRB/RLM and can't see the layout of the site since it's intentionally blocked in the FSU if I remember correctly. If sincere women could see HRB/RLM's pages, they may be turned off. I haven't signed up for Zolushka as a woman but I wonder if the ladies can see us men in underwear too? Link below.
http://zolushka.net/
While many men at HRB/RLM are searching for bikini babes or ones wearing lingere, here is what FSU women are told the men there are looking for.
Single men WAITING FOR YOU!
Passion, desire, romance,LOVE! This is something we all passionately want but can not always be achieved. Our program Zolushka.net- a unique tool for providing traditional services in the field of marriage business, where serious relationship ceases to be illusory pipe dream. Lonely American men want to meet you. We'll help you find them!
Find svoego partner with the following innovative services:
E-mail correspondence - Zolushka.net - this is your immediate connection with worthy bachelors across America. With our highly efficient email service Search for your ideal pair would be just a matter of time!
Conversation online - a quick phone call - the fastest way to connect with interesting American men.
LONELY AMERICAN MEN ARE WAITING TO MEET WITH YOU!
Look for a lover and can not find? Welcome to our site Zolushka.net, in a pleasant and safe atmosphere dating online, where the lonely American men are waiting to meet you!
American men: intelligent, attractive, have been successful - may be enough? Program Zolushka.net devoted to creating long term relationships between Russian women and American men. With ever-increasing database of Western men meet your chosen one for you is only a matter of time.
Our database consists of single men who live throughout the United States who are looking for true love. With the help of innovative services such as chat and video streaming, search for a man of your dreams becomes a lot easier than you might imagine! They wait - you do not have to wait. Start your search today and get ready for an appointment with your chosen one!
Some here have said many men who are losers are using HRB/RLM and deserve what's coming to them. HRB/RLM/CEO says the men at his site are worthy bachelors.
-
Safeguards are in place to prevent the exchange of said information and, if clients use extraordinary means to circumvent them, it's not the IMB's liability.
Damn you're good :o So the safeguards are in place to protect the clients. :popcorn:
-
Damn you're good :o So the safeguards are in place to protect the clients. :popcorn:
Regarding safeguards, there are two ways to look at it.
One is the idea to remove the agency as soon as possible, and get a direct phone number or e-mail address.
BUT... there is a nice counter argument that you may think of. for the counter argument assume you have a 20-25 year old daughter that has model looks. Would you reccomend her to give out her phone number and mail to every stranger that asks for it ? Or would you rather have her give it after she has had the chance to at least find out a little bit about the people who ask ? Of course all the good-mannered and highly repuatable men here woud feel there is no need to protect women. However reality might be otherwise.
Like men should use the method and means they feel comfortable with, the same thing goes for women. If that limits their chances, so be it, all that needs is one person who happens to make contact through the venue they choose. All those who selected another venue for whatever reason lose out.
-
BUT... there is a nice counter argument that you may think of. for the counter argument assume you have a 20-25 year old daughter that has model looks. Would you recommend her to give out her phone number and mail to every stranger that asks for it ? Or would you rather have her give it after she has had the chance to at least find out a little bit about the people who ask?
If at some point I have an adult daughter, I would recommend that the give her phone number to whoever she damn pleases, irrespective of her looks.
You know this isn't an issue here, for several reasons.
1)These men and ladies are not allowed to exchange direct email address or messenger info. That's not the same as a phone number or mailing address.
2) An adult doesn't need someone else to decide at what point they feel comfortable they know someone well enough to exchange contact info.
3)A woman on HRB isn't allowed to give out her phone number even after she's gotten the chance to get the men on the other side a bit. The criteria for allowing contact exchange is based on amount of cash spent by the man, not level of comfort of the woman.
-
BUT... there is a nice counter argument that you may think of. for the counter argument assume you have a 20-25 year old daughter that has model looks. Would you reccomend her to give out her phone number and mail to every stranger that asks for it ?
I presume you mean email. To answer your question, I would expect my 20-25 year-old-daughter, regardless of her looks, to be mature enough to know to whom she should give her contact information. Email: I can't see any problem. Deleting messages takes less than a second. Phone? Home phone numbers are becoming increasingly obsolete. I would expect that she would give out a cell phone number if she met a man and was interested in talking to him in the future. Such is life
-
Damn you're good :o So the safeguards are in place to protect the clients. :popcorn:
Nope, that's what condoms are for, not that anyone will be using them.
-
One thing looking at HRB, it had made me realize just how darn lucky I am to have found my significant other on singles.ru, it was real communication from the start and she glows in comparison to the touched up photos on the site as she is real (even when talking to her in after she just wakes up). She also laughed when we were talking about the HRB as she said, "what do you expect from a site where women pose in such a way". Anyways, I'm about to close down my review/experiment as I just wanted to see how long it takes to get to 1,000 unsolicited e-mails (all SPAM intro letters) and it's looking like it'll be less than a week.
So, related to the site, I will admit that I had used aweb, when I first got started in the FSUW search, and spent a few coins because I was a "greedy" man (not much different from most in the FSUW search) who thought he could get the smokinhotkova many years younger and it could be a normal marriage (after seeing a few geezers with their young FSUW locally and reading the propaganda on the sites, I will admit I drank the cool aide at that time). It's too people like myself where HRB get's their suckers, but luckily most of us learn quickly.
Anyways, as I wrote before, I would not recommend someone to get into the FSUW search as we all can find a nice lady locally who is appearance, life history, and age similar to us and if you still feel you need to go to the FSU then avoid the big sites like HRB and aweb. But, if you had to choose between aweb and HRB, I would go with HRB as they don't charge for opening the ladies email which is a BIG plus in their favor. You can also send out 10 free e-mails when you first sign-up which is again a big plus over aweb. Some of the profiles did seem like normal ladies with normal fully clothed pictures. Lastly, it does have a little entertainment value as I could not help but laugh when I read this line:
Do you want to do math? Let's add a bed, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply!
You need to give them props, at least they are creative...
-
To insure there is no misunderstanding - new member 'Percolator' has posted an identical post in three separate topics, two of which are older topics. This is a technique used by spammers or trolls whose purpose at RWD is inconsistent with the stated Terms of Service, but since this a 'hot button' issue at the moment, his ONE post here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=11898.msg250532#msg250532, will remain. The identical post that was in THIS topic I am writing this in, was removed - as was the third identical post in another topic.
- Dan
-
Great... because I was CAS about the WFT anyway.
-
Since Jeff posted a link to his BBB case here and said complaint is a matter of public record, I think that the text should be posted here so that members can judge for themselves whether or not he made a good case.
Tom,
You may be correct with your assumption that 'percolator' is "Jeff" - but I see nothing that definitively connects the two here at RWD.
In any case, please post your comments over in the topic where percolator's post was made, and addressed by at least one other member already. In fact, that was the reason I left that one post intact at THAT topic, is that it had received a reply, and his two other identical posts in other topics had not received any replies.
In fact - in a few minutes (after some folks have had time to see THIS post) - I am going to split your post off and merge it over there.
If it is not yet obvious, I will state it explicitly. Since I saw upthread there were accusations of deletions and editing and such when the HRB topic appeared elsewhere - and since I am now finding it necessary to delete SPAM and perform some other administrative tasks that could appear, to those not paying attention, as if I am deleting or editing things inappropriately - I am announcing my intent in advance, and you all can see exactly what I am doing and confirm that I am doing exactly, and only, what I say that I am going to do.
OK - so giving this post a bit of time for settling-in (it will be minutes, not hours), and then I will split and merge. If subsequent posts are made, I will determine for which topic they are most relevant, and place them accordingly.
- Dan
-
Manny--
$9.00 for postage?? where are you shipping your book from, Estonia?? I think you might sell more copies of your book if you made it available as an instant internet electronic download. you could probably sell it for $19.95, $14.95 or even $9.95; sell more copies than you are by shipping it, and make a higher profit for yourself. a win win situation for those who want to purchase it.
Copies from our own sites are shipped from Estonia or the UK (depending where we are). Copies from US Amazon and other on-line retailers that serve the US, Canada and Australia are usually printed in the US in batches for Amazon. I am looking at the Kindle model, I just haven't got around to it.
As for me I will wait until it reaches a 99 cent store--you can call me greedy, cheap or whatever, that is just all that I think it is worth since it is more or less a compilation of quotes from your website over at RUA. in the meantime I can read these forums at any time I wish to and obtain as much information as I want to for free.
"greedy" 1. excessively desirous of acquiring or possessing something, especially in quantity.
(agency girls who will take you on never ending expensive shopping sprees, in order to maintain a "relationship")
2. wanting to eat or drink more than one can reasonably consume; gluttonous.
(agency girls who will take you to the most expensive restaurant in town, and eat and drink like there is no tomorrow, in order to get a kick-back for their agency and themselves)
Manny, is that what your wife is referring to when she calls potential clients "greedy"??
Hey, if you had read that book you are waiting to become available at a local dime store, you would know exactly what "greedy" meant when spoken by a Russian. ;D
>>>"since it is more or less a compilation of quotes from your website over at RUA"<<<
Don't believe every rumour you hear from certain disreputable corners of the industry. The content is not really geared for those on a $1 budget, so it would be of limited use to you I expect.
-
And there's the attempted diversions as predicted.
This thread was initiated because of this:
Perhaps it means that HRB/RLM are not a "scam agency" as some quarters of the industry find it convenient to paint them? Perhaps the lack of evidence, and the anti-scam systems in place as discovered by those who visited, were not newsworthy enough to keep repeating. After all, who wants to go around shouting "ABC agency is not so bad after all"? Far easier to repeat a few rumours from some blokes who thought they were "scammed" video chatting with a woman thirty years their junior, which is what happens with many so called "scam" agencies.
The fact is if HRB has such a good anti-scam system in place, why would a member received 1000 'spam' emails in the course of week. Even the HRB defenders have admitted that these are insincere spam.
My question to the original post was never answered.
Manny claims that these are not 'scam' agencies.
Then he describes the typical situation that leads a man to think he's being scammed - that is a bloke (we can call him a 'knuckle shuffler') who is chatting with a lady thirty years younger (and by the evidence presented, is scantily clad and initiates the chat with light sexual conversation).
So my questions to Manny, Tom and others are:
When a hot young girl is contacting a below average man, 30 years older than her, do you think she is doing so with sincere intentions of considering that man as a potential marriage partner?
The website assures us that the women have serious intentions.
Is it normal for a beautiful young Russian or Ukrainian girl to seek a serious relationship with below average men, 30 years her senior?
If this is not normal behaviour, what is the motivation?
If this is not sincere behaviour, how is it not a scam? What would you call it?
-
So my questions to Manny, Tom and others are:
No comment. I have better things to do than to answer loaded questions.
-
And there's the attempted diversions as predicted.
This thread was initiated because of this:
The fact is if HRB has such a good anti-scam system in place, why would a member received 1000 'spam' emails in the course of week. Even the HRB defenders have admitted that these are insincere spam.
My question to the original post was never answered.
Manny claims that these are not 'scam' agencies.
Then he describes the typical situation that leads a man to think he's being scammed - that is a bloke (we can call him a 'knuckle shuffler') who is chatting with a lady thirty years younger (and by the evidence presented, is scantily clad and initiates the chat with light sexual conversation).
So my questions to Manny, Tom and others are:
When a hot young girl is contacting a below average man, 30 years older than her, do you think she is doing so with sincere intentions of considering that man as a potential marriage partner?
The website assures us that the women have serious intentions.
Is it normal for a beautiful young Russian or Ukrainian girl to seek a serious relationship with below average men, 30 years her senior?
If this is not normal behaviour, what is the motivation?
If this is not sincere behaviour, how is it not a scam? What would you call it?
>>And there's the attempted diversions as predicted.<<
Jooky - that is simply an unfair allegation. My recent actions have been directed to keeping this topic clear of "diversions" - and for Manny to respond to questions posed is hardly the nefarious act of "diversion" you are suggesting.
For that matter, your hatchet job on the RWD 10 Commandments was equally 'below the belt' as your obvious implication was that RWD was abandoning its position in support of those principles - which is just flatly NOT TRUE.
If you continue to feel the need to perpetuate this topic and your campaign (and it is clear you *do* feel that need) please take care to NOT impugn or malign others not directly associated with your campaign.
- Dan
-
Manny claims that these are not 'scam' agencies.
Did he? You are familiar with the word "perhaps" in your quote yes? A quote you removed from context.
Keep twisting the words Jooky.
So my questions to Manny, Tom and others are:
When a hot young girl is contacting a below average man, 30 years older than her, do you think she is doing so with sincere intentions of considering that man as a potential marriage partner?
Probably not. Unless there is a chance he is very rich.
The website assures us that the women have serious intentions.
Does the website guarantee the motivations of all its female members? I don't expect it does.
Is it normal for a beautiful young Russian or Ukrainian girl to seek a serious relationship with below average men, 30 years her senior?
Well there are a few on this board that are or were in such a marriage. For some women, if the guy is rich enough, yes.
If this is not normal behaviour, what is the motivation?
As above.
If this is not sincere behaviour, how is it not a scam? What would you call it?
I would call the examples you cite, a handful of women using the services of a website, that merely facilitates communication, talking to some men who are old enough to know better.
That doesn't address the serious men, seeking age appropriate women, who mostly remain clothed. Just more tabloid sensationalism you are pedalling Jooky.
-
Manny, would you define 1000 out of 14000 women listed a 'handful'? That's the number of women that initiated contact with 1 guy in a week.
If an agency lists 14000 women, how many do you think are active in a week? Half? Less? More? A quick search on Elena's shows about 60%. Would you think that's a fair estimate? Would you consider 1000 out of 8400 'a handful'?
What percent of those would you reasonable think are sincere? What percent insincere?
Would you call 15 out of 30 online with web cams or 40 out of 180 online a 'handful'? Those were the numbers contacting one man at one given moment.
In your experience, what percent of the overall women and what percent of the online women should be reasonably, sincerely targetting a single man?
Ok Manny, tell us directly, without the perhaps: Do you claim that HRB is not a scam agency?
Does the website guarantee the motivations of all its female members? I don't expect it does.
All? They assure their members that the behaviour exposed on this thread is normal for sincere ladies. You've agreed that it's 'probably not', which is as weak as it gets from someone that people look to for advice.
-
Manny,
At some point, you should do the same cost/benefit analysis that I did.
-
that is simply an unfair allegation.
It wasn't an allegation towards you. You did clear the diversion. Tom attempted to bring it back.
For that matter, your hatchet job on the RWD 10 Commandments was equally 'below the belt' as your obvious implication was that RWD was abandoning its position in support of those principles
Incorrect. My implication was that those that now recommend HRB and the 'devils advocates' are giving advice that abandon those principles.
-
At some point, you should do the same cost/benefit analysis that I did.
Yup you probably both should.
What are you trying to gain by recommending a method that you know presents more obstacles at a higher cost than many other methods of finding sincere women in Russia and Ukraine?
-
Ok Manny, tell us directly, without the perhaps: Do you claim that HRB is not a scam agency?
Technically, how could they be? They are facilitators of communication. The agencies in Ukraine are those whom recruit the women. They are independent from what I gather.
If you spoke to a pro dater or a scammer on Skype, would you blame Skype because they enabled you? Would Skype be a "scam" site too? Would you blame the airline that took you to Ukraine to meet a pro dater? Would you blame AT&T because they facilitated the call or AOL because they allowed you to surf the site? If not, why blame the site that allowed you to see a video stream of the woman?
The site is a tool. One of many tools people use to facilitate communication. People draw their own conclusions, and proceed according to their own, adult, decisions. If people make bad decisions, it is because they are not educated in the subject matter.
If 60 year old Joe Schmo from Idaho decides to throw some cash at a communication site to see a scantily clad Sexy Olga on video steam, why not? Would you seek to deprive him of that pleasure? I wouldn't. Let him make his own decisions. Similarly, a sensible wife-seeker, may decide the instant scantily clad web cam girls are not what he seeks in a wife, and look to one of the other 13000 women there. Where is the scam there?
-
Manny, would you define 1000 out of 14000 women listed a 'handful'? That's the number of women that initiated contact with 1 guy in a week.
I should clarify that those would be 1,000 email messages as I have seen some women post multiple times (usually seperated by a few seconds). Still, the total of unique women contacting me is very impressive and having had profiles on EM, singles.ru, or match.com in the past, I have never received so much attention in such a short period of time.
Mostly, I would judge HRB to be entertainment with the potential to find someone who might be married minded, but there are still a lot easier ways of doing that IMO.
-
Nope, that's what condoms are for, not that anyone will be using them.
Unless the pimp agency gets a cut.
-
Manny, I agree. HRB is not even the agency. When people complain about HRB, they are actually talking about HRB affiliates. These are the real agencies in question.
That's why it doesn't matter what's going on in HRB's Florida offices. The goal here is to steer guys in the right direction.
Skype, AT&T and airlines aren't making any assurances either way about who you come into contact using their services. HRB does.
Yes, let men make their own decisions, but let's inform them with honest information when they come here looking for it.
-
Yes, let men make their own decisions, but let's inform them with honest information when they come here looking for it.
Point them at Russia then. There is much less "scam" type activity coming out of there in recent years. In parts of Ukraine, it appears to be an industry.
When people complain about HRB, they are actually talking about HRB affiliates. These are the real agencies in question.
Exactly. And CEO has explained how many of those he has fired over the years. When dealing with a poor and corrupt country, one where corruption and cheating is endemic, finding a few dishonest local agencies is not altogether surprising is it? Call it the dirty barrel if you like. Delve in the crap to seek a diamond. It is the nature of the endeavour.
-
If you spoke to a pro dater or a scammer on Skype, would you blame Skype because they enabled you? Would Skype be a "scam" site too? Would you blame the airline that took you to Ukraine to meet a pro dater? Would you blame AT&T because they facilitated the call or AOL because they allowed you to surf the site? If not, why blame the site that allowed you to see a video stream of the woman?
Apples and oranges comparisons as Skype & ATT are just selling the mode of communication and the airline is selling a seat, with no implied context about meeting a marriage minded lady. In this regards, HRB can't be looked at as just a facilitator of communication, even if that's what their part of the business is as it's this total package that they must be judged on (communication & meeting a serious FSUW) and the outcome of this judgement is what should be used to recommend them or in my case NOT to do so.
-
Technically, how could they be? They are facilitators of communication. The agencies in Ukraine are those whom recruit the women. They are independent from what I gather.
If you spoke to a pro dater or a scammer on Skype, would you blame Skype because they enabled you? Would Skype be a "scam" site too? Would you blame the airline that took you to Ukraine to meet a pro dater? Would you blame AT&T because they facilitated the call or AOL because they allowed you to surf the site? If not, why blame the site that allowed you to see a video stream of the woman?
What a load of crock. Come on... do you really believe this BS or are you just stiring up a thread because you have nothing better to do?
If Skype were called Skype Brides, facilitated a vast amount of activity which was pure scam and continued this way for whatever reason... itwould be a scam site.
You're free to go jerk your own chain but your posts and attitude in here puts men at risk, and I didn't think that was the purpose of RWD.
-
Point them at Russia then.
Most guys I'd point home. If they insist on an FSU bride seeking adventure I do point them to Russia. If they insist on meeting women online I point them away from sites that will mislead them and toward sites where it's easier to meet real women. It's not that hard!
Delve in the crap to seek a diamond. It is the nature of the endeavour.
That's where I disagree. I never found myself delving through the crap to find the diamonds in Russia. There are plenty of decent, sincere women and they are easy to find.
Times have changed. There are easier ways to meet Russian women these days than agencies. We don't need to direct men to the dirty barrel. They can avoid the crap altogether.
Quit misleading people.
-
That's where I disagree. I never found myself delving through the crap to find the diamonds in Russia. There are plenty of decent, sincere women and they are easy to find.
You haven't managed to marry one in the last half decade though; so it can't be that easy.
Kuna, what's with the big letters dude?
-
Hey y'all...
We fight over the best way, then turn around and fight over the worst..
Isn't there a middle ground somewhere that will make both camps happy?
It's getting to the point that my theory of not looking for a wife working just as well as any 'method', is being proven quite valid, maybe even better.
Seriously, keep bringing up a problem and you'll get turned away (or turned off as I am), but bring a possible solution and folks will be happy to talk about it.
Is there anything constructive in this topic?
-
You haven't managed to marry one in the last half decade though; so it can't be that easy.
I expected that. :rolleyes2:
If I was on a bride hunt you might have a point. But, you well know that I'm not.
It's easy to find decent, sincere, good women that will make good wives for someone. Whether or not I marry them is irrelevant.
-
Unless the pimp agency gets a cut.
Crazy acrzybear,
It isn't absolutely clear whether the agency is the pimp, I am the pimp or both. No matter how you slice it, though, no one is going to get rich on condom sales to men in this endeavor. Pharmaceuticals might be a different story...
-
Constructive:
1) Stick with local women. There's not that much of a difference.
2) The best way to improve your options is to improve yourself.
3) If you insist you want to meet FSU women, use methods and sites that you put you in direct contact with the ladies you're looking to meet and where you're on an equal level as the ladies.
Good enough?
-
Technically, how could they be? They are facilitators of communication.
If you spoke to a pro dater or a scammer on Skype, would you blame Skype because they enabled you?
If I understood correctly, a man can be "chatting" and seeing a woman on his video camera. However, HRB states that they cannot guarantee that he is chatting with the woman on screen. How exactly is that "facilitating" communication? With Skype, what you see is what you get. The one you are seeing on the screen is the voice you are seeing and is the same account as the one who may be typing. Clearly, if my understanding is correct, the business model in place is facilitating fantasy not communication: all you need is one very pretty woman in the camera typing away, an potentially countless men will think or hope she is chatting with them :popcorn:
-
If I understood correctly, a man can be "chatting" and seeing a woman on his video camera. However, HRB states that they cannot guarantee that he is chatting with the woman on screen.
This doesn't sound right at all because it defeats the purpose of the video streaming: showing the client that he is chatting with a real girl. Where did this alleged disclaimer appear?
-
This doesn't sound right at all because it defeats the purpose of the video streaming: showing the client that he is chatting with a real girl. Where did this alleged disclaimer appear?
This was covered by Jooky :popcorn:
That's what it is. If you like, you can just pay to watch as the lady chats with the other men on the line. :rolleyes2:
They're covered though. It never says 'chat with her live'. It says 'see her live'.
They don't provide video chat. They provide a text chat / live video streaming combination.
-
I will reply your questions with counter questions.
So my questions to Manny, Tom and others are:
When a hot young girl is contacting a below average man, 30 years older than her, do you think she is doing so with sincere intentions of considering that man as a potential marriage partner?
You have declared such a girl is free to contact any man she sees fit, what do you personally have against her doing so ?
Is it normal for a beautiful young Russian or Ukrainian girl to seek a serious relationship with below average men, 30 years her senior?
Is it normal for a below average man to look for a marriage partner 30 years younger, do you think he is doing so fully expecting psiritual love ?
If this is not normal behaviour, what is the motivation?
Is it not normal behaviour for a young girl to look for local men instead of foreigners ? If she does, what is the motivation ?
If this is not sincere behaviour, how is it not a scam? What would you call it?
Do you think chatting up a girl without the intention of a serious relationship is a scam ? What would you call it ?
-
Constructive:
1) Stick with local women. There's not that much of a difference.
2) The best way to improve your options is to improve yourself.
3) If you insist you want to meet FSU women, use methods and sites that you put you in direct contact with the ladies you're looking to meet and where you're on an equal level as the ladies.
Good enough?
+1
Staying at home is a good option and improving yourself will dramatically improve what you can attract (and we're not just talking about appearance).
-
That's what it is. If you like, you can just pay to watch as the lady chats with the other men on the line. :rolleyes2:
Cost is 2 credits / minute. That's .80 to $1.20 depending on how much you buy up front.
They're covered though. It never says 'chat with her live'. It says 'see her live'.
They don't provide video chat. They provide a text chat / live video streaming combination.
I pay around 40 bucks / month for my unlimited bandwidth in Novosibirsk. I have the highest speed package. Cheaper unlimited packages are available all over Russia.
Gotta love it. :evil: Ka....ching.
-
This was covered by Jooky :popcorn:
That explains everything...
-
You have declared such a girl is free to contact any man she sees fit, what do you personally have against her doing so ?
I stated a girl should be free to give out contact info to whomever she chooses.
On a site that proclaims that she's been interviewed to ensure her sincerity, and men are paying to talk to her based on this assumption, she should make only sincere contact.
Is it normal for a below average man to look for a marriage partner 30 years younger, do you think he is doing so fully expecting spiritual love ?
It's definitely more normal than the opposite!
However, men making this type of first contact is not the issue here. The issue is the ladies intitating contact.
Is it not normal behaviour for a young girl to look for local men instead of foreigners ? If she does, what is the motivation?
Her motivation can range from not being able to find the right man and willing to seek anywhere to the desire to use a mule as an escape. I can think of many motivations good and bad.
I can't think of any plausible motivation for what's happening on HRB other than profit. Can you? (key word 'plausible' - a 20 year old beauty being so bored at 3AM on a Tuesday that she has nothing to do but seek out 60 year old losers to chat with is not plausible).
Do you think chatting up a girl without the intention of a serious relationship is a scam ? What would you call it ?
If I'm on a site where someone has paid to have me interviewed and validated to ensure that my intentions are to seek a serious relationship I call it deception. If I profit from it, I call it a scam.
Are you now trying to convince me that HRB is a scam? If so, you're doing a good job.
Now can you answer my questions?
-
So my questions to Manny, Tom and others are:
When a hot young girl is contacting a below average man, 30 years older than her, do you think she is doing so with sincere intentions of considering that man as a potential marriage partner?
The website assures us that the women have serious intentions.
Is it normal for a beautiful young Russian or Ukrainian girl to seek a serious relationship with below average men, 30 years her senior?
The other <----
Jooky-
Let me offer some perspectives here...
I attached HRB's website so we can use it for the exercise.
1. What do you honestly think that an average 60 year old man will be deliberating upon once he stumbles to the same page? Let's get real here. Do you believe the vast majority of them are seeing a 60 year old woman through all the ladies shown on the site before deciding to sign up? What do you think they are expecting to 'see' once they sign up?
2. How do you know with great certainty that an average 60 year old men signing up on HRB actually need to be 'saved' and 'helped'? From what? Maybe they're there for that very reason (chat with a pretty young woman who loves jiggling her huge breasts)?
3. Do you honestly believe the vast majority of 60+ year old man in the MOB go to FSU to court and marry women in their late 50s and 60s?
4. Even Jack, and Ed's video, aren't exactly showcasing babushkas in their attempt to market their services. I've never seen it, have you? Also, I never once saw a disclaimer in their offering that any of these ladies are off limit to men over 50, yet most of what they show are women in their 20s...when men in their late 50s and 60s sees Jack's photos, and looked at Ed's video that they are thinking to themselves..'Man, I'll sign on on his service so maybe he can introduce me to a 60 year old Russian woman'. I doubt that was the intent of the offering, and seriously doubt that would be what a 60 year old man would be hoping for...
Heck, if I'm not mistaken, Ed married someone in her early 20s and Jack married someone who also was pretty young. How young, or how much younger than he, I don't know.
5. Lastly, who the heck is this 60 year old you're so concerned about?
60 year old men have as much right to get down and dirty just like the rest of us...who are you (we) to tell them to restrict their saggy fantasies to bingo games and shuffleboards.
-
Manny, I agree. HRB is not even the agency. When people complain about HRB, they are actually talking about HRB affiliates. These are the real agencies in question.
Exactly. And CEO has explained how many of those he has fired over the years. When dealing with a poor and corrupt country, one where corruption and cheating is endemic, finding a few dishonest local agencies is not altogether surprising is it? Call it the dirty barrel if you like. Delve in the crap to seek a diamond. It is the nature of the endeavour.
If wrong had been done to an HRB/RLM customer, then HRB/RLM is solely to blame. Most of their customers don't know they are dealing with feeder agencies.
If you have a general contractor remodel your home, that company may hire sub contractors to do the electrical, plumbing, painting, etc... You will have a contract with the general contractor, not his subs. You will pay the general contractor and he will in turn pay the subs. If the new electric wiring catches fire and causes $10,000, you go after the general contractor to fix it. If the owner told you it isn't his responsibility and to go after the electrical contractor, he is wrong and you really begin to understand the type of business man he is.
Why are people saying HRB/RLM is not responsible to their customers? If we know unethical things happen in the FSU and in feeder agencies, it is not supposed to be brought onto HRB/RLM customers. HRB/RLM customers pay for a service. They are not paying for unethical practices no matter how much spin is put on the fact that HRB/RLM customers are losers and perverts. Now if HRB/RLM advertised men can talk to young ladies and play out their fantasies, then we wouldn't be here arguing.
-
GQ-
I completeluy agree with you.
I don't believe sincere men are the target demographic of HRB or any other website with this business model.
I believe they make very decent profits off this very fact.I feel it's intentional and the most profitable.
And please dont think its all young hotties, those places market far better than that, and broader range,. you certainly can chat with a nice 35 Yo at 3am for as long as you pay as well..even though she is a hairstylist that workls a day shift.
I really did NOT think we were here to come up with the legal definition scam.
I did think we were here to share real experience, to better inform sincere men,
of the pitfalls, as well as best methods to increase the already poor odds. :)
yes they should see it easily themselves, just like they should see MOST of the common sense advice given here.
but since when did some business get a free pass on a technicality here?
i don't buy it.
In addition i challenge some of the naysayers to sign up at such sites,get some real experience, or admit that they actually don't have any REAL experience with the topic, and a clue to it's scope or depth.
I do, and I know the reality.I do feel guys coming here ,of all places, should be informed
that NOT all places are the same,
that YES you certainly can be killed in a plane crash walking to work
(it IS possible! but what a silly argument some are making)
and you DO have a far better chance of being in a plane crash if you travel in a light plane frequently in bad weather!
The "why" or "who" of the situation really doesn't matter.
The playing it off that the US corp who takes in the $$ , is so naive that they dont know and so its "ok"
is rather amusing though.
-
GQ,
The example of the 60 year old man is to show how these 'ladies' will contact anyone. If I used a 40 year old with more going for him as an example, the 'defenders' would make claims that sure 'it's possible' that all all these ladies contact him.
The real guys that get suckered are guys like Sculpto, Gothman and others I know who weren't chasing something that far out of their league.
Actually Billy's right. HRB should be held responsible, but we're not here to put them on trial.
I think we're here to do as AJ says.
I do feel guys coming here of all places, should be informed that NOT all places are the same.
Let the 60 year olds get down and dirty. If these guys are looking for porn chat, this isn't the venue to be making recommendations, and there are plenty of dedicated porn cam sites out there that they can use instead of HRB.
If HRB is primarily a fantasy site for creepy old men, that's ok with me, but then it shouldn't be listed as a recommended bridal site for guys with serious intentions. (and that's what sparked this debate).
-
I stated a girl should be free to give out contact info to whomever she chooses.
On a site that proclaims that she's been interviewed to ensure her sincerity, and men are paying to talk to her based on this assumption, she should make only sincere contact.
And until you have established proof of the contrary, you only have a suspicion the contact might not be sincere. Yes, the suspicion does seem valid, but still it is nothing more as a suspicion.
It's definitely more normal than the opposite!
However, men making this type of first contact is not the issue here. The issue is the ladies intitating contact.
You did not seem to understand my question. I was not asking about the man initiating contact, but the likelyhood of the man actually wishing to respond to the initiated contact given his age.
Her motivation can range from not being able to find the right man and willing to seek anywhere to the desire to use a mule as an escape. I can think of many motivations good and bad.
I can't think of any plausible motivation for what's happening on HRB other than profit. Can you? (key word 'plausible' - a 20 year old beauty being so bored at 3AM on a Tuesday that she has nothing to do but seek out 60 year old losers to chat with is not plausible).
I can think of many motivations... the girl is waiting for someone she knows to come online and having fun while doing so... the fact that an old mule is more likely to kick the bucket soon... translators playing a role in the contact rather than the girl...
If I'm on a site where someone has paid to have me interviewed and validated to ensure that my intentions are to seek a serious relationship I call it deception. If I profit from it, I call it a scam.
Where do you have proof that the women profit from it ?
Secondly, if the man is intending to seek a serious relationship, and considers his true potential and options, why would he even react to someone that he could decide to be obviously not serious. Would that not be a similar deception from the side of the man ?
-
And until you have established proof of the contrary, you only have a suspicion the contact might not be sincere.
Where do you have proof that the women profit from it ?
This isn't a court case. My 'suspicions' are well founded. Well enough to advise men to stay clear of this bullshit. If you want to steer men to use these type of sites, be my guest.
Enough women have stated that they profit from this or have seen other ladies get paid. Read Raven's posts. Read Sculpto's experiences. Even the guy on RUA who had a good experience with HRB said that ladies at the local agency he visited were suckering guys to send them gifts.
Enough already.
-
This isn't a court case. My 'suspicions' are well founded. Well enough to advise men to stay clear of this bull*snip*. If you want to steer men to use these type of sites, be my guest.
Enough women have stated that they profit from this or have seen other ladies get paid. Read Raven's posts. Read Sculpto's experiences. Even the guy on RUA who had a good experience with HRB said that ladies at the local agency he visited were suckering guys to send them gifts.
Enough already.
This is not a court case, but that does not mean you should not be able to back up statements. The time your profile was published at Antidate you did care about what is real and what is jumping to conclusions based on half truths. I suggest you create similar standards for yourself and for others.
I would suggest that most of those who have reached here and read the main things to do and not to do will be able to make their own educated decision.
As for those who can not read it, no need to warn them. Standing is the desert with a sign that you need to bring water with you has about the same effect.
-
I've backed up plenty.
First of all I said 'if' these girls profit, it's a scam. If not, it's deception. Even the main proponents of HRB have agreed that the intros are fake spam. If you don't think so, then you're the last person anyone should take serious advice from here.
10 minutes on the site and it's clear what it's all about. Read Raven's and other experiences if you want to hear about women getting paid. If you find the statements of CEO and others who have never even used the site or met ladies that use these agencies to be more credible, your choice.
Have you met ladies that used HRB affiliates? I have. Enough said.
There is at least one flat out lie on the HRB site, and that's about the cost of internet in Russia. Now CEO can go cover his ass by removing that. You're welcome.
Why bring up Antidate? Kvinna blacklisted me and made up stories because I shared a photo of her ugly mug with some people. You bring that up only to goad me. Being blacklisted there didn't bug me. What bugged me is Kvinna, who will outright slander people as she pleases was on an 'ethics' committee. What a joke.
Yes, people can make their own decision based on advice given here. When their decision is based on recommendations of sites where they will likely be deceived and ripped off, they can thank you for it.
-
GQ,
The example of the 60 year old man is to show how these 'ladies' will contact anyone. If I used a 40 year old with more going for him as an example, the 'defenders' would make claims that sure 'it's possible' that all all these ladies contact him.
The real guys that get suckered are guys like Sculpto, Gothman and others I know who weren't chasing something that far out of their league.
Scultpo & Gothman? Hhmmm I don't think that's a good Alamo to stand on...
Is this the same Sculpto that had that experience with the Armenian girl in Thailand that everyone tried to 'warn' him against by repeatedly telling him he's in for some serious hurt? That Sculpto? What happened to that story again?
And Gothman, yeah cool dude. I actually liked him. But for good reason or otherwise if there was someone who wasn't interested in/looking for help, it was this guy, man. I mean, when it was apparent he was going to do what he wanted to do for himself, the peanut gallery started to attack his state. Then when he started firing back, it eventually led to him getting banned. We definietly helped that guy, didn't we?
You believe either, or both, listens to any advice?
As for the '60' year old man, it's age irrelevant...
But let's get back to HRB...
Do you deny marriages were consumated by use of HRB? I can't, can you? Do you know with certainty ALL men who signs into HRB really didn't have the specific intention of watching beautiful 20 year old women jiggling their breasts? If you say you do, I would beg to differ because from my vantage point it appears to me that the majority of men seem to be getting what they came and paid for. Why? I always believe the numbers of supply have a very direct correlation to the number of demand.
Here's another angle to this...
What appears to me that the underlying beef you have with HRB is that the heavy number of working girls trying to separate men from their money in exchange for a bit of fantasy makes them a scam agency because they carry the word 'bride'? You seem to be saying that is a complete misrepresentation of their business. Fair enough...
Should HRB then simply clearly distinguish what their site really is? Hot Russian Jiggling Breasts instead of Hot Russian Brides? What impact will that now have for both the women and men who are in it for marriage?
Here's an often used ratio...95% of the men are keyboard Romeos and 5% are sincere searchers/travellers...if these are acceptable to the debate and the same numbers can apply to HRB's clientele (unless you don't believe so, please state), can we do a simple exercise and deduce how sane this debate really is? I doubt anyone here will be surprised to know that the ratio between the number of Jiggler watchers outnumber the number of dedicated Dannys on any given Odessa Tuesday. No?
One stand you seem to be taking here is this...'we' need to unite and take a stand and help and steer these 'men' from these despicable agencies and steer them to say...Mamba. Your principle reason to that is...it's a place/venue where 'sincere men' can meet and marry 'sincere women' for 'free'.
1. You are making the assumption all the women on Mamba are 'sincere'.
2. You are making the assumption that ALL the men doesn't really want to froth over jiggling breasts.
Fair enough...
It's already been mentioned here so I hope I am not imposing too much in making this point. You've been at this for over 10 years now, Jooky. Some of that was spent perusing EM amongst other ones, and now Mamba. You conveniently dismiss that the reason why you're not married is simply because a) 'you're not in a hurry to be', b) you haven't met one you'd like to mother your child, c) 'xxxxxxxxxx', etc..whatever other 'acceptable and understandable' reason/s you may have.
OK...so will it be fair for me to say that in the course of your search for elusive Masha all these years that you had enjoyed watching sincere Olgas, Marinas, Ludas, Svetas, Natashas, Irinas, etc...jiggle their hot, young beautiful breasts for you during the process? 10? 12? 100? 1000? How many now?
Simple deduction now then is....EM is cheaper and Mamba is free...sites that supposedly house 'sincere girls'.
1. You enjoy the same experience in the cheap and/or 'free' while HRB charges men for theirs thus we have a responsibility to let these men know HRB is a scam agency.
2. You, by technicality, is promoting to 'men' you do not know to use sites like Mamba because they have 'sincere girls' at their leisure to do whatever it is they plan on doing in sites like HRB.
3. In the end, it is somehow better to do 'this' on women who are sincerely searching for a partner than it is to women who specfically are doing it as a form of livelihood - because they can do it for 'free'.
This was the focal point I was making intially when I said, (AW and) HRB actually is/are a good filtering system. It gives the 95% a proper place to do their thang. Wouldn't you agree?
Sinister is as sinister does. Given there's 100 men out there we don't know asking what sites they can use, based on the ratio used above, is there any sensibility in believing that if you told these men to use 'HRB' that you would likely be 95% right?
-
What appears to me that the underlying beef you have with HRB is that the heavy number of working girls trying to separate men from their money in exchange for a bit of fantasy makes them a scam agency because they carry the word 'bride'? You seem to be saying that is a complete misrepresentation of their business.
Yup. It makes them a site we should not be recommending to the guys who are looking for something serious.
1. You are making the assumption all the women on Mamba are 'sincere'.
Nope. With Mamba you haven't paid Mamba for their assurance that the women are sincere. With HRB you have.
2. You are making the assumption that ALL the men doesn't really want to froth over jiggling breasts.
Nope. But if this isn't a forum for recommending or discussing porn sites.
For the record, I haven't been 'at' anything for 10 years. I met a Russian girl on AOL 10 years ago. The first time I even looked at a 'bride' site was about 5 years ago. My marital status is irrelevant here.
1. You enjoy the same experience in the cheap and/or 'free' while HRB charges men for theirs thus we have a responsibility to let these men know HRB is a scam agency.
Nope. Wasting time chatting with girls who have no real interest whatsoever in me is not one of my experiences on other sites. I've done that at a strip club, but not on a personals site.
2. You, by technicality, is promoting to 'men' you do not know to use sites like Mamba because they have 'sincere girls' at their leisure to do whatever it is they plan on doing in sites like HRB.
I promote any site that allows people to exchange direct contact. What they do then is up to them.
3. In the end, it is somehow better to do 'this' on women who are sincerely searching for a partner than it is to women who specfically are doing it as a form of livelihood - because they can do it for 'free'.
Women on normal sites don't provide fake fantasy chat for dorks. They ignore them.
OK...so will it be fair for me to say that in the course of your search for elusive Masha all these years that you had enjoyed watching sincere Olgas, Marinas, Ludas, Svetas, Natashas, Irinas, etc...jiggle their hot, young beautiful breasts for you during the process?
You can take your unfounded accusations and go to hell. You're a real ass, GQ. Fuck off.
-
OK...so will it be fair for me to say that in the course of your search for elusive Masha all these years that you had enjoyed watching sincere Olgas, Marinas, Ludas, Svetas, Natashas, Irinas, etc...jiggle their hot, young beautiful breasts for you during the process? 10? 12? 100? 1000? How many now?
[You can take your unfounded accusations and go to hell. You're a real ass, GQ. *snip* off.
Someone seems to have struck a nerve.
-
Damned right, I don't take it lightly when someone who has met me in person is misrepresting my character for the sake of his own entertainment.
-
I feel exactly the same way, whether we have met in person or not.
-
You can take your unfounded accusations and go to hell. You're a real ass, GQ. *snip* off.
Geez, offer up another perspective for you Jooky, you go off on a tangent. Exactly *where* did I accuse you of anything?
mesays:
"OK...*so will it be fair for me to say that in the course of your search for elusive Masha all these years that you had enjoyed* watching sincere Olgas, Marinas, Ludas, Svetas, Natashas, Irinas, etc...jiggle their hot, young beautiful breasts for you during the process? 10? 12? 100? 1000? How many now?"
-
Gentlemen,
I'm locking this down for a short intermission to allow a little reflection and so you can catch your breath before the swinging starts. It's already over the line in many respects.
Lets all come back in a better mood.
-
OK - it has been a few hours, and time to unlock this topic.
I need to say that I am rather fascinated at the reactions and positions being expressed here. Rarely have we seen a more polarizing topic.
In terms of several of the 'principals' participating in the topic, I have some observations to share. Specifically, to address Jooky, TomT and GQBlues.
Each of those members are VERY long-standing members of the 'community' of people directly involved in cross-cultural relationships with partners from the FSU. In the case of GQ, he has been married to a lovely lady for quite some time - and TomT joined the ranks of the married not too very long ago. Jooky is in the unique position of being able to spend 1/2 his time in Russia and the other 1/2 in the US, and is (just as I would be - and I would encourage) not in any rush to get married, as he has the freedom and opportunity to date in both countries.
Each one of those three gentlemen - Jooky, TomT, and GQBlues - has impressed me more than once over the years with their insightful and intelligent contributions to people involved in this endeavor. If there were a RW Forum 'Hall of Fame' - those three names would be found enshrined there.
Readers who are new to these fora would be very well-advised, indeed, to pay attention to what each of them writes. That is not to adopt it - but pay close heed to their advice and determines (as always) what 'fits' for you - and you will find more of that from those three members than any other trio I might think of.
It has been unsettling, to me, to see some of these tensions unfold. I confess to not paying much attention to historical enmities, and often need to be reminded when something pops up that seems to have the sniff of a 'legacy' issue attached to it - but I honestly do not recall ever seeing these three guys so vociferously on the opposite side of an issue.
In any case, I hope the debate here does not lead to any serious ill-will - on anyone's part. The fact is, opinions are being expressed. Some of those opinions are passionate. All that is quite OK, so long as there is no personalization of insult as was building when Mod2 locked the topic earlier today.
My sense is there is(are) some undercurrent(s) contributing to the passions on display here - and I am not quite sure of the source of those.
I know there exists some tensions between Manny and Jooky - though those, I believe, have been pretty well contained.
I understand there is some suspicion of TomT because he visited the offices of HRB in FL.
I 'get it' that Jooky prefers and recommends sites which allow "direct communication."
There have been allegations made in this topic that seem to impugn RWD merely because (at least, I *think* it is "merely because") we allow this topic such free reign.
For my part, I have found it VERY curious that there are such strong reactions being expressed in THIS topic, when the very same business model was examined/displayed last August (in the topic I keep linking over to) and it did not meet with NEARLY this response. I honestly do not understand that, and it intrigues me.
In any case, the topic is now re-opened and you are free to continue - hopefully, with any undercurrents brought to the light of day so that THOSE can be examined.
- Dan
-
I know there exists some tensions between Manny and Jooky - though those, I believe, have been pretty well contained.
Nothing too serious and mostly in the past in my view. We disagreed one one issue some time ago; I don't hold grudges so much nowadays. Life is too short. I welcomed him back to RUA when he was there recently. I like Jooky even though I often disagree with him.
-
But let's get back to HRB...
Do you deny marriages were consumated by use of HRB? I can't, can you? Do you know with certainty ALL men who signs into HRB really didn't have the specific intention of watching beautiful 20 year old women jiggling their breasts? If you say you do, I would beg to differ because from my vantage point it appears to me that the majority of men seem to be getting what they came and paid for. Why? I always believe the numbers of supply have a very direct correlation to the number of demand.
Here's another angle to this...
What appears to me that the underlying beef you have with HRB is that the heavy number of working girls trying to separate men from their money in exchange for a bit of fantasy makes them a scam agency because they carry the word 'bride'? You seem to be saying that is a complete misrepresentation of their business. Fair enough...
Should HRB then simply clearly distinguish what their site really is? Hot Russian Jiggling Breasts instead of Hot Russian Brides? What impact will that now have for both the women and men who are in it for marriage?
Here's an often used ratio...95% of the men are keyboard Romeos and 5% are sincere searchers/travellers...if these are acceptable to the debate and the same numbers can apply to HRB's clientele (unless you don't believe so, please state), can we do a simple exercise and deduce how sane this debate really is? I doubt anyone here will be surprised to know that the ratio between the number of Jiggler watchers outnumber the number of dedicated Dannys on any given Odessa Tuesday. No?
One stand you seem to be taking here is this...'we' need to unite and take a stand and help and steer these 'men' from these despicable agencies and steer them to say...Mamba. Your principle reason to that is...it's a place/venue where 'sincere men' can meet and marry 'sincere women' for 'free'.
1. You are making the assumption all the women on Mamba are 'sincere'.
2. You are making the assumption that ALL the men doesn't really want to froth over jiggling breasts.
Fair enough...
It's already been mentioned here so I hope I am not imposing too much in making this point. You've been at this for over 10 years now, Jooky. Some of that was spent perusing EM amongst other ones, and now Mamba. You conveniently dismiss that the reason why you're not married is simply because a) 'you're not in a hurry to be', b) you haven't met one you'd like to mother your child, c) 'xxxxxxxxxx', etc..whatever other 'acceptable and understandable' reason/s you may have.
OK...so will it be fair for me to say that in the course of your search for elusive Masha all these years that you had enjoyed watching sincere Olgas, Marinas, Ludas, Svetas, Natashas, Irinas, etc...jiggle their hot, young beautiful breasts for you during the process? 10? 12? 100? 1000? How many now?
Simple deduction now then is....EM is cheaper and Mamba is free...sites that supposedly house 'sincere girls'.
1. You enjoy the same experience in the cheap and/or 'free' while HRB charges men for theirs thus we have a responsibility to let these men know HRB is a scam agency.
2. You, by technicality, is promoting to 'men' you do not know to use sites like Mamba because they have 'sincere girls' at their leisure to do whatever it is they plan on doing in sites like HRB.
3. In the end, it is somehow better to do 'this' on women who are sincerely searching for a partner than it is to women who specfically are doing it as a form of livelihood - because they can do it for 'free'.
This was the focal point I was making intially when I said, (AW and) HRB actually is/are a good filtering system. It gives the 95% a proper place to do their thang. Wouldn't you agree?
Sinister is as sinister does. Given there's 100 men out there we don't know asking what sites they can use, based on the ratio used above, is there any sensibility in believing that if you told these men to use 'HRB' that you would likely be 95% right?
That is probably the best post I have read on this topic. :clapping:
-
That is probably the best post I have read on this topic. :clapping:
...and this is probably the best photo you've seen too.
a pig is a pig is a pig...despite your lipstick
-
I should have stopped wasting my breath many pages ago. Shadow seems to have a firsthand understanding of agency business in the FSU. He wrote something very insightful.
If HRB would really clean up, and by that I mean clean both the female *and* male trash out, there would not be enough left to pay for the hosting.
Bold statement! Yet it is supported by tidbits in subsequent posts by knowledgeable contributors. Namely, almost all of the men clients at HRB are "trash" as well as the siren women who lure men sailing by and cause them to shipwreck upon the rocks.
So why worry? Why create this animosity just to protect trash? Let them wreck on the rocky shore. If an uninformed, sincere man is ensnared by HRB, it is possible for him to fall through the cracks in the floor and to find a marriage minded woman.
Any reader of RWD will know that this is the path to avoid.
-
"The root of all evil is greed"!!!
the Pardoner's Tale, Chaucer.
is HRB motivated primarily by greed, or are they a legitimate marriage agency striving to bring together genuine men and women???
obviously, Hot Russian fantasy Chat would be a better name for them.
-
"The root of all evil is greed"!!!
the Pardoner's Tale, Chaucer.
is HRB motivated primarily by greed, or are they a legitimate marriage agency striving to bring together genuine men and women???
obviously, Hot Russian fantasy Chat would be a better name for them.
I seriously doubt that the main revenue stream comes from the "brides" angle and most $$$ come from titillating chat that gets some guys off. These are not guys seriously pursuing an FSU bride unless maybe one arrives in the mail.
Just the economics for HRB being a bride agency is specious at best. Brides is the sideshow...the main event is fantasy chat. The CEO says he has 45 employees to pay. If I am very, very conservative and say they each make $25K per year (thats averaging everyone, some make more, some less) which puts their payroll alone at over a Million a year. I'm sure some employees also have a benefit and bonus package and we do have to pay the CEO. Then we have customary business expenses, IT expenses, legal expenses and the $ it costs everyday to keep HRB online and humming along. They probably need at least 2.5-3 million a year just to stay afloat and pay the bills and I have not even mentioned paying investors and debt or the "roof" in the FSU. Or money they pay to affiliates or the chatting girls. I'm sure someone else could nail down the #'s better.
You just can't pay that money marketing brides from the FSU today. Soft core chat is where the money comes from. HotRussianChat or HotRussianBabes would be a more appropriate name and would probably get them even more chatters to pay the bills. No reason for them to even be discussed on RWD as legitimate--but some wanted to sanitize the HRB image here. Didn't work.
It is not even HRB trying to do this either...it's their 2 cheerleaders. They have some agenda.
In dealings with most agencies a guy wants to be cautious and informed. With HRB be extremely cautious. A smart guy looking to marry an FSU bride would not have anything to do with HRB. Consumer good sense: If you go to buy something with your CC and are asked to agree to an "Acknowledgement Of Services Received".....run, don't walk away. They are legally setting you up so you can't do a chargeback through your CC company.
-
Kind of funny that HRB attracts all kinds of trashy men but they say they want to protect RW from those men. IMBRA is their excuse to prevent customers from exchanging contact info and thus their customers must pay big bucks to get the right to even see their ladies if they choose to visit. Trashy men can pay the big bucks too.
At the Mamba network a guy can instant message a lady. If she's attracted to his photo, she will reply. If not, she will ignore. If a guy has a good conversation with her for a few hours, he may try to ask for her phone number. If she thinks he's a good man for her, she will give out her number. If all he's talked about over the last few days is perverted, then she probably will refuse. If they have great communication over weeks or months, she may want him to visit. He doesn't have to pay for that right and IMBRA and the paperwork that has to be done doesn't exist.
-
...and this is probably the best photo you've seen too.
a pig is a pig is a pig...despite your lipstick
:P +1!!
-
I know this is an old and (hopefully) dead topic/thread ... but just got done reading all 16 pages (less the bickering) and found all this very interesting...
For starters, I do appreciate CEO making an appearance... but sad that he never showed up again... Can't say I blame him, as it was a massive dog-pile session in the end...
That aside, after reading some more respectable posts, (and I CAN see both sides here) - I actually thought about doing a trial on HRB/RLM .... but then I poked around more - specifically the BBB and some other sites offering their warnings... and what disturbs me the most, is the adverts placed in Ukraine, specifically for women to do what we have all seen "done" - Chat up westerners - for a 50/50 fee... We've seen the adverts... We've seen the chat screen shots... And whilst I do believe CEO is trying to 'fix things'... I think he's taking his sweet time as the $$$ continues to roll in.... (and as a matter of law, he (HRB/RLM) are responsible for their 'agents' regardless of what contract they have drawn or not)... Like someone said, if you hire a sub (agency) - you are responsible for their actions... Now, in fairness to CEO and the entire corrupt MOB biz, I think we've all learned that cleaning this up is improbable - if not impossible - So, once again, props to him for coming on here and trying to defend - Also for letting 2 members into their office to inspect things...
Anyway - Since I've been at this awhile, and can deal with the 'whores at the doors' to borrow someone else's phrasing.... I thought I'd give it a go... For TomT originally posted (somewhere) that what he saw in the BBB reports were "OK" and made the complaintants look like idiots (paraphrased - but you get the point)... Well, I found the BBB link - err, one of them... and the case is now closed... Have no clue what the resolution was? (http://westflorida.app.bbb.org/complaint/view/67148277/c/zefl9m (http://westflorida.app.bbb.org/complaint/view/67148277/c/zefl9m)) but after reading the evidence presented - not only is it thorough, and damning... It's very factual, well-documented, and CLEAR that this member was not given what he was promised... Maybe HRB/RLM omitted this one from what you got to see when you visited? But to me, this is not a guy who simply wrote out a barf session on the back of a beer coaster... He did his homework - AND - had the brass to post it publically - Name, address, and even their 1-on-1 personal correspondences... And in the end, (60 pages!) he has them dead to rights... very dead... IMO
Now, if there's some twisted TOS loophole that HRB wishes to hide behind, wow, this is not a company that I want to do business with - and frankly, I don't trust... Does it work for some? Apparently it does... But I think we all know what's going on here... and for me personally, it's not my cup of tea...
I think it's sadder that when faced with pretty damning evidence, that CEO made an exit from here (I don't read RUA - so maybe he addressed it there?) - But either way, till he puts in place some of the screening and filtering mechanisms suggested here by RWD members, I don't think it's a wise move for anyone - n00bie or experienced...
I've not read all their membership stuff - but am hearing $2000 to get a VIP status (paraphrased) and even then, that only gets you booted to the local UA agency to pay their fees? Seems pretty extreme to me....
Anyway - I know 60 pages from the BBB is allot to troll thru - but for those that said the complaint(s) were not well thought out or coherent - I beg to differ... His arguments and defense pretty much supports everyone's theories and speculations that have been posted here thus far... so I dunno...
Lastly, (and again, I don't want to speak from what I "read" off the net) but it does sound like this is Russian owned... Not sure how that is possible if they're in FL? - Nor do I understand if you have 2 CEO's... but those aren't the ones that were 'met'... as they are in the Islands somewhere? Huh? All sounds a bit fishy to me...
But what do I know...
Hope I can attach this PDF doc (EDIT: It's 4MB so won't allow - but is worth the read) - Go to the link above, and download the last dated entry... It's complete with UA adverts, letters being cut-off midstream - and the back and forth with HRB and the upset client... IMO, he was robbed... and hope he prevailed...
-
Now, if there's some twisted TOS loophole that HRB wishes to hide behind, wow, this is not a company that I want to do business with - and frankly, I don't trust... Does it work for some? Apparently it does... But I think we all know what's going on here... and for me personally, it's not my cup of tea...
Anyway - I know 60 pages from the BBB is allot to troll thru - but for those that said the complaint(s) were not well thought out or coherent - I beg to differ... His arguments and defense pretty much supports everyone's theories and speculations that have been posted here thus far... so I dunno...
60 pages is about 58 or 59 more than I'd have time for :D
But thanks for doing the leg work.
As always, Caveat Emptor
-
60 pages is about 58 or 59 more than I'd have time for :D
But thanks for doing the leg work.
As always, Caveat Emptor
I have a bit of detective in me, and always been suspect of this agency - so was kinda fun digging thru the 'facts' and sussing out certain things...
Ironically, since then, I wanted to take it a step further, and opened up a base (free) trial account on RLM - and like everyone else (even before I could finish my pix and profile) was swamped with 50+ video chat requests from 'hot' 19 y.o.'s from the UA ... yeah, right.... no way this isn't a money making scheme - (did not say 'scam' - it's just a scheme to sucker in keyboard Romeo's) Consider yourself warned -
Oh, so back to the irony - I posted my profile in Russian - about 2 pages worth of vital info - and after 2-3 days - it's deleted? I try again... 2-3 days pass (whilst making contact with a few HAWT Russian Brides no less) and once again, it's removed?! - No 'contact info' or anything is listed... Do they not want the girls to really see that someone knows Russian and what they want? I don't get it... so after 3 attempts, I just said chuck it... if they don't want my 2000 quid - that's their loss then.
Like all the scheming agencies before them - they'll eventually fall - In this economy, I don't know many that have $2K laying around to do video chat just to get an address....
Good luck -
-
I have a bit of detective in me, and always been suspect of this agency - so was kinda fun digging thru the 'facts' and sussing out certain things...
Ironically, since then, I wanted to take it a step further, and opened up a base (free) trial account on RLM - and like everyone else (even before I could finish my pix and profile) was swamped with 50+ video chat requests from 'hot' 19 y.o.'s from the UA ... yeah, right.... no way this isn't a money making scheme - (did not say 'scam' - it's just a scheme to sucker in keyboard Romeo's) Consider yourself warned -
Oh, so back to the irony - I posted my profile in Russian - about 2 pages worth of vital info - and after 2-3 days - it's deleted? I try again... 2-3 days pass (whilst making contact with a few HAWT Russian Brides no less) and once again, it's removed?! - No 'contact info' or anything is listed... Do they not want the girls to really see that someone knows Russian and what they want? I don't get it... so after 3 attempts, I just said chuck it... if they don't want my 2000 quid - that's their loss then.
Like all the scheming agencies before them - they'll eventually fall - In this economy, I don't know many that have $2K laying around to do video chat just to get an address....
Good luck -
Unfortunately I do not think they are going to fail any time soon. As PT Barnum said there's a new sucker born every minute.
-
Unfortunately I do not think they are going to fail any time soon. As PT Barnum said there's a new sucker born every minute.
The only reason I agree with you here (with apologies to Barnum) is that based on talking to others in the biz (Tour/Agencies, etc.) there's been a tremendous drop in visits since the world economies took a turn... So, logically, it's easier for many to buy into the hype and sit at home in their skivvies typing some HRB without putting any effort or cost into actually getting on a plane and going (90% never go - even when times were good) So this marketing scheme plays perfectly well ATM - So sadly, you're most likely right.... Till people wise up - there'll always be someone feeding the monkey... Damn shame really.
-
Ironically, since then, I wanted to take it a step further, and opened up a base (free) trial account on RLM - and like everyone else (even before I could finish my pix and profile) was swamped with 50+ video chat requests from 'hot' 19 y.o.'s from the UA ... yeah, right
Try putting up a pic like this....
I bet they still want to chat (for $$$ a minite)
(http://www.fugly.com/media/IMAGES/Random/beer-belly.jpg)
-
BoozeBaron,
The question du jour is did YOU read Coffee's (aka Percolator) rubbish?
Teen-aged Yulia wasn't interested in a guy whose father would be 89. Capiche? In any case, the female clients are under no obligation to accept an intamacy request from old coots such as you, Jeff or myself. If this is your idea of a factual, well-documented and clearly damning case against a sevice provider then I would hate to see what your idea of a frivolous complaint would be.
HRB can't do anything for stupid, illiterate, whining old bastards who write to drop-dead gorgeous teenagers and who are too careless, obtuse or lazy to read the damn contract. Apparently, some men make the ridiculous presumption that spending money guarantees them an FSU teenie in their bed lickety split. Unfortunately, it isn't going to happen unless a guy has more to offer than poor spelling, sappy rhetoric, unrealistic expectations, a drinking problem, a DUI conviction and a complete inability to identify canned responses.
... not to mention the absurdity of presenting the comments of an anonymous Internet figure as evidence.
-
BoozeBaron,
The question du jour is did YOU read Coffee's (aka Percolator) rubbish?
Uhm - Okay... So you're really gonna try to defend this mess? Sure... fine... whatever... I'll try to rise above and will directly respond to your comments.
Did I read the (rubbish) reports? As I've already said, yes, I read all 60+ pages - Question really is, did you read them ALL? Based on some of your comments, it would seem that you did not.
I DID say I can see both sides of the argument and complaint here - but Mr. Coffee's rebuttal was coherent, and addressed each and every issue raised - Whereas RTI (HRB/RLM) did not... Does not mean he was correct or 'right' in his answers... but it was a very well articulated response - which surprised me given that I was lead to believe it was a complete idiot that was making these claims (again, subjective - Mr. Coffee very well may be a total idiot - but his responses are not indicative of a person that would be - but again, what do I know)
Teen-aged Yulia wasn't interested in a guy whose father would be 89. Capiche?
Don't get cute sir - You don't know me... I don't know you... So don't start swinging bats till you know who you're playing with - Capiche?
As to poor innocent Yulia, based on the letters he shared to the BBB (and the general public) with full-disclosure, it 'appeared' that she did indeed wish to meet... Again, read the rebuttal(s) and evidence offered - He may very well have been being played - or just a total old fart lost in some fantasy - but he didn't arrive there alone... it's clear she had some role in all this.
In any case, the female clients are under no obligation to accept an intamacy request from old coots such as you, Jeff or myself. If this is your idea of a factual, well-documented and clearly damning case against a sevice provider then I would hate to see what your idea of a frivolous complaint would be.
You've lost me here - for your comment/argument is pretty much circular logic in nature, and makes no sense whatsoever.
You may wish to start by defining "old coots"... Is 42 an old coot? If so, then I guess I am one...
Secondly - while granted she's under no obligation to do anything she doesn't wish - based on the letters I read (and will admit, I scan read many, but still, did read them) I saw nothing over the line. The guy paid in the $2000 to take things to the next level, and wanted to meet the gal in question - That is what HRB provides and promises - He did his part - she did hers - They did not (apparently).
RE: Well-documented - I really do not think you've read the entire case... It's very well-documented IMO - and I do know some Law - No, it's not an attorney's brief - but as just said, he systematically, logically, and methodically addresses each complaint lodge against him. Far better than 99% of the 'complaints' I see lodged against companies and others on the Internet - So again, I'm wondering if you really did read everything in its entirety?
Frivolous or not - IMO, RTI did not fully respond to his complaint(s) and the questions posed (rebuttals) - I doubt RTI's answers would stand up in Court.
HRB can't do anything for stupid, illiterate, whining old bastards who write to drop-dead gorgeous teenagers and who are too careless, obtuse or lazy to read the damn contract. Apparently, some men make the ridiculous presumption that spending money guarantees them an FSU teenie in their bed lickety split. Unfortunately, it isn't going to happen unless a guy has more to offer than poor spelling, sappy rhetoric, unrealistic expectations, a drinking problem, a DUI conviction and a complete inability to identify canned responses.
OK Sherlock - You've obviously done some background checking on Mr. Coffee - for I saw no mention of this anywhere (very possible I missed a chapter along the way) - but those are some pretty strong allegations, (which may, or may not be true) but you said them, not me... I'd add, that I'd seriously doubt that the BBB would 'dance' 7 months with RTI/Mr. Coffee if he was as bad a person as you just made him out to be. Again, his responses are articulate and coherent - and don't sound like they were penned by someone with the problems and issues you just claimed against him. (then again, everyone is entitled to a good day every now and then) - Point being, you obviously know this bloke - We do not - Have you met him? Talked with him? Or is this all hearsay from HRB/RLM? 3 sides to every story mate - Theirs, his, and the truth ... And I suspect it's wedged somewhere in the middle there.
... not to mention the absurdity of presenting the comments of an anonymous Internet figure as evidence.
Again, you've lost me? Is this another shot at me b/c someone had the brass to take exception to your excellent analysis? If so, again, I'd suggest you get to know me first before firing shots.... Or, if you're referring again to Mr. Coffee - I'd just ask that you'd back your claims with something more substantial than RLM/HRB's word (that is a sincere request) - Again, you may know this guy... I really don't know.
-
BoozeBaron,
The question du jour is did YOU read Coffee's (aka Percolator) rubbish?
Teenage Yulia wasn't interested in a guy whose father would be 89. Capiche? In any case, the female clients are under no obligation to accept an intimacy request from old coots such as you, Jeff or myself. If this is your idea of a factual, well documented and clearly damning case against a service provider then I would hate to see what your idea of a frivolous complaint would be.
HRB can't do anything for stupid, illiterate, whining old bastards who write to drop dead gorgeous teenagers and who are too careless, obtuse or lazy to read the damn contract. Apparently, some men make the ridiculous presumption that spending money guarantees them an FSU teen in their bed lickety split. Unfortunately, it isn't going to happen unless a guy has more to offer than poor spelling, sappy rhetoric, unrealistic expectations, a drinking problem, a DUI conviction and a complete inability to identify canned responses.
... not to mention the absurdity of presenting the comments of an anonymous Internet figure as evidence.
Wow, I don't think I have seen a recent post littered with so many spelling errors, other errors and redundant insults in a long time. I corrected the spelling errors for you, I cannot help you with your abysmal writing style.
No, the question of the hour is how long American consumer rights advocates and honest legislatures are going to continue to let companies like "Hot Russian Brides" operate with impunity. It's not enough that they may or may not have a contract in tiny print warning that if you do business with them that you will be ripped off. They need to actually have a warning in LARGE BOLD PRINT that writing or chatting to the "ladies" is for entertainment purposes only, and that a consumer will likely be chatting with Boris and not Natasha, as Natasha is actually in bed asleep. They should also be required to post in BOLD PRINT realistic age gaps which a young lady realistically will consider for marriage. For example, a 19 year old girl should be required to post a realistic age gap that she will only date a man up to 25 years of age. They should also legally be required to change their name to "Hot Russian Chat" since that is their true method of conducting business. God knows that they are not really in the business of marrying even 10% of their young under 25 ladies to anyone.
-
Thanks Rubicon - You said it all better than I could have (or did) ....
My gripe is with RLM/HRB, not so much Tom's reporting...
We've had our tit for tat now - and hope we can move back to the main theme of the OP - RLM/HRB... and exposing them for what they are - fine print and all -
Cheers -
BB
-
Try putting up a pic like this....
I bet they still want to chat (for $$$ a minite)
(http://www.fugly.com/media/IMAGES/Random/beer-belly.jpg)
You could put up a photo of a 3 foot midget who says that he is unemployed, lives at home with his mother and has a brood of 25 cats. No matter, he would still be inundated with unsolicited letters and chat requests.
-
Thanks Rubicon - You said it all better than I could have (or did) ....
My gripe is with RLM/HRB, not so much Tom's reporting...
We've had our tit for tat now - and hope we can move back to the main theme of the OP - RLM/HRB... and exposing them for what they are - fine print and all -
Cheers -
BB
Cheers yourself mate!! I think you made an excellent and very solid argument. Don't underestimate or put down your own abilities. With that passion you could be a fine attorney at law. The real problem is that HRB has very deep pockets and it's going to take someone with very deep pockets to actually take them to court for their charades. It may also take the rare bird of an honest politician or attorney general who want to stop companies like that from making millions and millions of dollars selling snake oil. I may be wrong but I suspect that consumer protection laws are better in Europe and prevent this type of company from pulling this type of delusional high cost fantasy off without truly proper notification of what they really are doing. It always goes back to them claiming to be honest and gee gosh they really had no idea of what the agencies in Ukraine are doing, and how can they possible stop such nefarious activity??
In case you don't know it TomT was paid to go and visit HRB and become a shrill for them. He comes slinking around here every now and then and then disappears again.
-
In case you don't know it TomT was paid to go and visit HRB and become a shrill for them. He comes slinking around here every now and then and then disappears again.
I am not aware Tom was "paid" for visiting HRB? Nor that he was paid to become a shrill shill. Do you have proof of that Rubicon?
-
Wow, I don't think I have seen a recent post littered with so many spelling errors, other errors and redundant insults in a long time. I corrected the spelling errors for you, I cannot help you with your abysmal writing style.
No, the question of the hour is how long American consumer rights advocates and honest legislatures are going to continue to let companies like "Hot Russian Brides" operate with impunity. It's not enough that they may or may not have a contract in tiny print warning that if you do business with them that you will be ripped off. They need to actually have a warning in LARGE BOLD PRINT that writing or chatting to the "ladies" is for entertainment purposes only, and that a consumer will likely be chatting with Boris and not Natasha, as Natasha is actually in bed asleep. They should also be required to post in BOLD PRINT realistic age gaps which a young lady realistically will consider for marriage. For example, a 19 year old girl should be required to post a realistic age gap that she will only date a man up to 25 years of age. They should also legally be required to change their name to "Hot Russian Chat" since that is their true method of conducting business. God knows that they are not really in the business of marrying even 10% of their young under 25 ladies to anyone.
Rubicon,
I deliberately spelled intimacy as Jeff spelled it in his original complaint. I suspect that you wouldn't have any complaints about other aspects of my writing style if we were in agreement. Perhaps you consider Jeff to be a kindred spirit; if so, that is your prerogative.
~Shrill Tom. (Just so that there is no confusion, I spelled the word, "shill," as you spelled it.)
-
In case you don't know it TomT was paid to go and visit HRB and become a shrill for them. He comes slinking around here every now and then and then disappears again.
IMO TomT is not sinuous and was forthright about his visit and association. As a ballroom dancer he does not slink. ;)
I do not know if I would have had the same conclusions as TomT; then again I did not see what I saw. The important point is that a serious newbie should not use agencies with such business models. If one wants to have a cyberspace GFE with a hot babe, then go for it, recognizing that penetration is not on the menu.
-
BB,
1) You presume correctly, I know more about Jeff than is included in your link. He posted for a while under the moniker, "Percolator," and I was given access to the complete complaint file. The fellow cherry-picked his messages so that he would not not show himself in bad light. I have neither met him in person nor spoken to him, however.
2) To a teenager, a guy in his thirties is an old coot.
3) I wasn't taking a shot at you. My comment was about referencing Jim's List as evidence. Except in special cases of statutory confidentiality, witnesses must be identified. To the best of my knowledge, "Jim" was anonymous.
4) This topic has become long of tooth for me so I will summarize my position before slinking away: a service provider is not required to do whatever clients imagine that they should do; it is only required to do what is contractually stipulated. That's the law, whether anybody likes it or not.
5) HRB's business model is not my cup of tea. Nonetheless, I found many sincere women on their database who would probably make some lucky guy very happy. From what I've seen, most men bring failure upon themselves and then try to shift the blame elsewhere. That approach is rarely curative.
-
5) HRB's business model is not my cup of tea. Nonetheless, I found many sincere women on their database who would probably make some lucky guy very happy. From what I've seen, most men bring failure upon themselves and then try to shift the blame elsewhere. That approach is rarely curative.
+1
-
5) HRB's business model is not my cup of tea. Nonetheless, I found many sincere women on their database who would probably make some lucky guy very happy. From what I've seen, most men bring failure upon themselves and then try to shift the blame elsewhere. That approach is rarely curative.
Most sites of that particular business model have some sincere women. One of the problems for men looking at those sites are that they are not generally the women offered up and badgering for the old coots to webcam with them. IMO, most of the "sincere" women cannot be reached until one has paid enough cash to receive the higher plateau services.
HRB, AWEB and the rest IMHO, are a detour for any sincere men and an outlet for any fantasy dwellers. I would stop short of calling these agencies scams but, would not hesitate to call them the shams that they are.
Tom, you remain a bit of a mystery to me. You seem like a good guy as evidenced by some good advice I've seen you give out. Yet, your continuing love affair with HRB is soiling your good advice. You had a nice vacation on HRB's dime, there is no way you can offer an unbiased opinion on HRB. I still contend you and Andrewfi gave up that ability when you partook of the goodies.
You seem to be attacking the messenger here with boozebaron. Percolator may or may not be an old sleeze bag. Who cares? HRB makes promises and can't deliver, why do you defend that?
-
Yet, your continuing love affair with HRB is soiling your good advice. You had a nice vacation on HRB's dime, there is no way you can offer an unbiased opinion on HRB. I still contend you and Andrewfi gave up that ability when you partook of the goodies.
I don't see where TomT has given a blanket approval of HRB or done anything suggesting a "....continuing love affair with HRB." His following points speak volumes to me:
"4).... a service provider is not required to do whatever clients imagine that they should do; it is only required to do what is contractually stipulated. That's the law, whether anybody likes it or not.
5) ....From what I've seen, most men bring failure upon themselves and then try to shift the blame elsewhere...."
We know how HRB works. I assert a reasonable man would avoid them, even with pretty girls in enticing photos telling me sweet words.
Perhaps TomT is akin to the Casey Anthony jury. He compared evidence against what the law stipulates as necessary to determine guilt and ignored grey or ambiguous areas.
-
Tom, you remain a bit of a mystery to me. You seem like a good guy as evidenced by some good advice I've seen you give out. Yet, your continuing love affair with HRB is soiling your good advice. You had a nice vacation on HRB's dime, there is no way you can offer an unbiased opinion on HRB. I still contend you and Andrewfi gave up that ability when you partook of the goodies.
Perhaps one of HRB's detractors should have gone in my stead. Then he could have come back and aired his stubborn preconceptions. In the end, if someone agrees with me, I am very astute. If not, I am a shill. C'est la vie!
-
If one strives for truth in advertising try fubar.com
-
I don't see where TomT has given a blanket approval of HRB or done anything suggesting a "....continuing love affair with HRB." His following points speak volumes to me:
Throughout this thread Tom has spoken highly favorable of HRB with caveat emptor as his defense. I agree with that to a point but, only a point. HRB and the rest's whole model and marketing scheme is "YES, you too can have a lovely hottie if you sign up and pay". I'm not going to get into the "fine print" contractual limits because no where does HRB get into that until someone feels they have been fleeced. Then, it's caveat emptor and you should have read the bottom line. Or, you old perverted bastid, you should have known these 19 year old hottie don't want an old man, defense. That's bullshit.
There's nothing honest with these people and they are all lying to their customers until the customer feels they've been screwed and "then" the HRB's of the world come clean with "it's in the agreement you agreed to". The agency shouldn't get to play both sides against the middle just because they have an affinity for lying. When the facts of the matter is from the agencies standpoint, it's all true and all well and good, until you get tired of paying us money. No, the agencies get no pass there IMHO.
We know how HRB works. I assert a reasonable man would avoid them, even with pretty girls in enticing photos telling me sweet words.
Yes Gator we do. You, Tom, I and most who half ass pay attention to whats being posted on the forum. Most reasonable men would that had an inkling of an idea would too. Unfortunately, many do not. Many do not find the RWDs of the net to receive warning of whats to come. Still, I do not give like agencies a free pass for that. They're shams who's only motivated to separate fools from their money.
Perhaps TomT is akin to the Casey Anthony jury. He compared evidence against what the law stipulates as necessary to determine guilt and ignored grey or ambiguous areas.
Maybe you believe Tom had complete and unfettered access to HRB's operation and 'maybe' he did. Who's to know? Tom might believe he did. I don't believe he did. Who does such a thing especially, in this particular business?If I was CEO, no way I would do such a thing. I do believe he let Tom see what CEO wanted him to see.
HRB gets a bad rap, largely deserved from their practices and reputation by the end user on these forums.
I see Tom assigning the blame to the stupid old, bald, fat guy with a credit card. The old, fat guy didn't do it alone.
-
Perhaps one of HRB's detractors should have gone in my stead. Then he could have come back and aired his stubborn preconceptions. In the end, if someone agrees with me, I am very astute. If not, I am a shill. C'est la vie!
Make no mistake here Tom, I'm not saying you did anything wrong. If I were offered an all expense paid trip to Florida, I likely would have taken it as well. I'm glad you had a good time. What can't be over looked are the multitudes of guys that come to the forums crying in their beers. Yes, the lion share of the blame is theirs but, not all of it. Thats what I don't understand about you, you are defending HRB whether you want to admit it or not. Maybe if you prefaced your advice or remarks concerning HRB or the like with " I did accept a free trip from HRB" might make it more palatable but, unlikely. :D
-
Throughout this thread Tom has spoken highly favorable of HRB with caveat emptor as his defense. I agree with that to a point but, only a point. HRB and the rest's whole model and marketing scheme is "YES, you too can have a lovely hottie if you sign up and pay". I'm not going to get into the "fine print" contractual limits because no where does HRB get into that until someone feels they have been fleeced. Then, it's caveat emptor and you should have read the bottom line. Or, you old perverted bastid, you should have known these 19 year old hottie don't want an old man, defense. That's bullshit.
There's nothing honest with these people and they are all lying to their customers until the customer feels they've been screwed and "then" the HRB's of the world come clean with "it's in the agreement you agreed to". The agency shouldn't get to play both sides against the middle just because they have an affinity for lying. When the facts of the matter is from the agencies standpoint, it's all true and all well and good, until you get tired of paying us money. No, the agencies get no pass there IMHO.
Yes Gator we do. You, Tom, I and most who half ass pay attention to whats being posted on the forum. Most reasonable men would that had an inkling of an idea would too. Unfortunately, many do not. Many do not find the RWDs of the net to receive warning of whats to come. Still, I do not give like agencies a free pass for that. They're shams who's only motivated to separate fools from their money.
Maybe you believe Tom had complete and unfettered access to HRB's operation and 'maybe' he did. Who's to know? Tom might believe he did. I don't believe he did. Who does such a thing especially, in this particular business?If I was CEO, no way I would do such a thing. I do believe he let Tom see what CEO wanted him to see.
HRB gets a bad rap, largely deserved from their practices and reputation by the end user on these forums.
I see Tom assigning the blame to the stupid old, bald, fat guy with a credit card. The old, fat guy didn't do it alone.
Most excellent post Faux Pas. I suspect that Neo is a young good looking somewhat wealthy guy, or at least a guy with a very good job. I sincerely doubt that he would have much better luck with HRB than the old, bald fat guys do.
-
Yes, the lion share of the blame is theirs but, not all of it.
Yes, HRB is plenty happy to take their money :popcorn: A good company does not have to rely on fine print ::)
-
Yes, HRB is plenty happy to take their money :popcorn: A good company does not have to rely on fine print ::)
Clearly HRB is counting on the fact that Sales Puffing is not against the law, and that a new sucker is born every minute so why should they do anything but laugh all the way to the large bank in Switzerland??
-
Clearly HRB is counting on the fact that Sales Puffing is not against the law, and that a new sucker is born every minute so why should they do anything but laugh all the way to the large bank in Switzerland??
True, but just because something is legal, does not make it right either.
-
True, but just because something is legal, does not make it right either.
We are definitely in agreement about that!! Read my upthread response to Manny and TomT last night for which a mod told me to cool it!! I have no empathy for corps like HRB whatsoever, I just prefer to think of them in humorous ways, otherwise I would just get really frustrated that it seems nothing is going to change.
-
You are free to express your opinion. However, you can do so in a productive manner. The conversation was becoming about you, Tom, and Manny, not HRB.
-
...I see Tom assigning the blame to the stupid old, bald, fat guy with a credit card. The old, fat guy didn't do it alone.
So they're not only stupid, old, fat, balding dudes...but likely helpless, too :P
I'm still trying to determine if the point of this thread/debate is to come up with a substitute activity for the obvious large majority of these ball-scratching lot who actually and purposely subscribe to HRB for exactly the type of available service few are trying to keep them from....
-
So they're not only stupid, old, fat, balding dudes...but likely helpless, too :P
I'm still trying to determine if the point of this thread/debate is to come up with a substitute activity for the obvious large majority of these ball-scratching lot who actually and purposely subscribe to HRB for exactly the type of available service few are trying to keep them from....
There are various aspects of the the MOB business that make me feel the need to scrub down just from talking about it. HRB and the ilk are one of them. I have no sympathy for these guys living in a fantasy and willing to "cha-ching" the registers at those pay by the letter and cam the girls agencies. None. I do have a degree of sympathy for the honest guys that gets caught into the vacuum these agencies create. They don't know any better and learn a tough lesson
-
I'm still trying to determine if the point of this thread/debate is to come up with a substitute activity for the obvious large majority of these ball-scratching lot who actually and purposely subscribe to HRB for exactly the type of available service few are trying to keep them from....
+1
Caveat Emptor. A fool and his money are soon parted. Etc, Etc, Etc.
-
FP.
Don't get carried away; I didn't write anything about bald or fat. I am a proponent of people making sensible decisions and taking responsibility for their actions, that's all. It doesn't make any difference whether someone is buying a house, a car, a television set or a MOB (hyperbole). Guys are NOT making sensible decisions if they buy products that are unsuitable for them and they don't have the means to maintain them. Unfortunately, there is far too much of this going around. IMBs could enforce access based on an age-gap formula. Wouldn't that go over big?
-
There are various aspects of the the MOB business that make me feel the need to scrub down just from talking about it.
:ROFL: Actually I shouldn't laugh because it is true. Faux, I agree with you that HRB is to be avoided like the plague. My fuzzy recall of the thread was that it suggested HRB was not as bad as its horrible reputation and that the CEO was taking strides to improve. Wasn't it his intention to revisit and tell us about his intitiatives to improve? Where is the CEO? Has HRB improved?
I recall Shadow commenting something about if the trash (male and female) were removed, there would not be enough business activity for HRB to be profitable. I found that very enlightening although not encouraging. It is as if the clientele at HRB deserve what they get.
I do find TomT being somewhat coy, yet he probably is staying within strict black and white standards.
-
FP.
Don't get carried away; I didn't write anything about bald or fat. I am a proponent of people making sensible decisions and taking responsibility for their actions, that's all. It doesn't make any difference whether someone is buying a house, a car, a television set or a MOB (hyperbole). Guys are NOT making sensible decisions if they buy products that are unsuitable for them and they don't have the means to maintain them. Unfortunately, there is far too much of this going around. IMBs could enforce access based on an age-gap formula. Wouldn't that go over big?
Tom,
You've misjudged me, I'm not carried away. Normally, in a real time setting and in general on the forum I just reply to the questions of HRB and the like as in "don't do it". They're bad news and if you're feeling lucky go for it. I have no crusade to stop or deter customers their way. I do see them as a double negative in an already questionable arena. I would have to be asked for an explanation on IMBs before I would offer one up. Your responses to the HRB posts while perhaps not positive completely, certainly wouldn't be construed as negative either. That is misleading to some whom may be looking and not asking. Almost as if you associate HRB as positive as long as one practices self restraint. My only contention is, they are getting lied to and I do not see that as their fault.
-
In case you don't know it TomT was paid to go and visit HRB and become a shrill for them.
I don't believe this is a true statement.
I believe TomT and his wife may well have had their expenses paid for the trip to visit the corporate office of HRB but I'm quite sure he was not paid any fee for compiling and publishing his observations about their business model.
The more you read TomT's posts the more you understand that what he DOESN'T say is sometimes more important than what he DOES say. . . . . . . . . .
-
:ROFL: Actually I shouldn't laugh because it is true. Faux, I agree with you that HRB is to be avoided like the plague. My fuzzy recall of the thread was that it suggested HRB was not as bad as its horrible reputation and that the CEO was taking strides to improve. Wasn't it his intention to revisit and tell us about his intitiatives to improve? Where is the CEO? Has HRB improved?
I recall Shadow commenting something about if the trash (male and female) were removed, there would not be enough business activity for HRB to be profitable. I found that very enlightening although not encouraging. It is as if the clientele at HRB deserve what they get.
I do find TomT being somewhat coy, yet he probably is staying within strict black and white standards.
Like shadow, I do believe that. However, that doesn't give them a free pass for what basically amounts to cheating their customers. Bait and switch, undelivered promises.
There's money in it or they wouldn't be doing it. It's not illegal and some would argue it's not immoral. It doesn't make it right or alright. Whether it is acceptable I suppose would depend on ones individual compass. I'm okay with that but, I wouldn't speak of them in a favorable light. :D
-
....I do have a degree of sympathy for the honest guys that gets caught into the vacuum these agencies create. They don't know any better and learn a tough lesson
I do too FP, but let's keep this more on the side of reality without having to drown it out into some idealistic smokescreen. Who exactly are we talking about?
If an average middle-aged Lothario whose social extent is turn his computer on to get his jollies off and have aspirations of getting a hot young dev in her early 20s, who also happen to send pictures with huge tits, and profess enduring love and lust for as long as his Visa will allow him to, he may be clueless to what *lays* in front of him, but if the first sight of the obvious isn't enough for him to understand something's just NOT right, then what makes you *think* what you have to tell him is ever going to change his mind?
Methinks in this side of the business, it is far likely there are MORE dirty old men ringing the registers than there are Honest Dans ringing the wedding bells. IMHO.
-
The more you read TomT's posts the more you understand that what he DOESN'T say is sometimes more important than what he DOES say. . . . . . . . . .
Sometimes what you do say can get you into more trouble than what you don't say. Of course sometimes what you don't say can get you into a lot of hot water too.
-
I do too FP, but let's keep this more on the side of reality without having to drown it out into some idealistic smokescreen. Who exactly are we talking about?
If an average middle-aged Lothario whose social extent is turn his computer on to get his jollies off and have aspirations of getting a hot young dev in her early 20s, who also happen to send pictures with huge tits, and profess enduring love and lust for as long as his Visa will allow him to, he may be clueless to what *lays* in front of him, but if the first sight of the obvious isn't enough for him to understand something's just NOT right, then what makes you *think* what you have to tell him is ever going to change his mind?
Methinks in this side of the business, it is far likely there are MORE dirty old men ringing the registers than there are Honest Dans ringing the wedding bells. IMHO.
Fair enough. While I have seemingly been a magnet for a number of guys over the years, some older and some younger to seek out for advice, I can really only totally relate to the position I personally experienced. That's the perspective I have personal experience with.
When I started, I was middle aged, early 40's and after being single for almost 15 years and raising the last child to the point of college, I was looking for something better than I was finding locally. My success locally was impressive for the area. I wasn't lonely in the physical sense at all. After contact with a RW scammer on an American dating site, being a man of means and capable of expanding my horizons I decided to explore international dating. I joined a number of agencies and received my schooling from what is now Global Ladies. In that process I learned how easy it is to succumb. Many IMHO men, just want to learn how and where to contact and fall into the traps set by these unscrupulous agencies. These are the guys I refer to, the ones "like me" ;D
I have no pity for the ones seeking their sexual jollies and choking their chicken on the net or otherwise fantasizing and using the IMBs to fulfill that need, regardless of their age. Those guys deserve everything they get. Your honest everyday Joe Sixpack that maybe isn't familiar with this process yet has been through the local meat grinder that is local dating. It is him who is seeking good information and gets drawn into that vacuum because the perception the IMBs create is, that is where you get the info.
There have been a lot of otherwise bright sharp men get vested in those agencies and their intelligence turns to mush, they get jaded, bitter, broke and the blame the entire MOB for what in essence is they're own stupidity and the greed of the IMBs. It doesn't 'have' to be that way.
-
FP-
and likewise over the years, I havent seen you do anything but advise the men you personally knew, or men youve seen graced upon these halls asking questions, nothing but what you knew of yourself to be the right way of doing things. Ive yet to see you tell anyone, more specifically, recommend to anyone, services or agencies the likes of HRB, AWs, etc...If you think about it, I dont believe anyone really has, and no one really should.
There was one thread that I vaguely remember where a guy came here asking the legitimacy of Anastasia. In almost complete unison, everyone told the person not to even try. Countless times RWD men generally advise men to stay away from the likes, or to generally stay away from pay-per-letter services
This, despite some of the men, even active here on RWD, actually did in fact met their SOs on the Anastasia/HRBs.
Conversely, lets take EM for an example. The general membership here readily recommends Elenas Models. Personally, I know for a fact NOT ALL of the women listed in that service is in fact, sincere. My proof of this will be completely anecdotal. Additionally, not too long ago people wanted to skin me alive telling me Im being silly to believe women in this and other IMB sites like it are all in it sincerely. Folks were loudly railing against me, even from women themselves who signed on to EM, citing that simply because a woman signed on an IMBthat it didnt necessarily mean all the women are/were sincere and honest in their intent when they signed up. One can argue but that really isnt a scam, yeah, but then I would argue, what is?
HRB is what it is. I would no more recommend it as a good way to meet someone for marriage any more than you would. BUT, it doesnt mean no one ever got married, or found success through HRB. I would be a liar if I ever told anyone that because it isnt true
HRB is more than just surviving not because of Honest Joes, but rather because of the Dirty ol Harrys....Now, how many men do you know, through the years they've spent searching for honest Olga, etc..in FSU that DID NOT, at least not even once, tasted ol' Dirty Harrys' sexy Svetlana's delights on the side? Honest Joe, I'm sure, would like to know...
Bottom line, and I hate to make this silly comparison, if anyone aspired to find someone to marry, whats the point of searching in a strip joint? If an average middle-aged honest Joe didnt know doodley squat about HRB, but found it and darn right got a full-mouthed taste of whats in it the first day cam invites, EOIs, etc
from nothing less but deliciously barely-clothed, very young PYTs, man
I say, Honest Joe just needs to be a little bit more honest with Joe, no?
To me, FP...the fault lies not in services like HRB, AW, Global Ladies, or even, ermmm, EM, etc...the fault lies on the other side. Certain things in life can't be anymore obvious if it hits them in the face.
-
Wow - Seems I woke the monster :)
Just wanna say, I appreciate Tom's diplomatic response - as well as everyone else's insight... Very adult and calm debate (er, exchange of ideas?) - Either way, glad to see it here...
I think we all agree HRB is not the ideal - I'd really like the chance to have that same visit - heck I'd pay my own way :) Just too much proof out there that shows they're doing little to crack down on their 'agreements' with their agencies... and would relish the chance to discuss this with their CEO.
Peace -
BB
-
GQ,
I do not disagree with anything you stated. I do think you may have went to an extreme or two, to make your point. I have no doubt there are many sincere women on the AWEBs and HRBs of the world. Most likely in much larger numbers than the few who make a tidy living bilking, the lonely and the horny goats. The young, sexy and willing women probably do very well.
There's bad ones on EMs but, I've not seen any evidence that EMs encourages or profits from such behavior. The same cannot be said for HRB, Loveme and the like agencies. It could also be said that EM isn't an agency.
Those agencies (HRB, AWEB and the like) are a business and protect their revenue streams. I get that. From what I've seen, the unsuspecting honest Joe has no choice (they believe) but to try and navigate through that bottleneck these agencies create, if they wish to meet and become acquainted with these foreign women. It is in that bottleneck that the fleecing begins. Some guys manage to do it. Obviously they need success stories to feed the monster and keep the illusion.
The basic business model of these places has been discussed to death on these boards. It is like playing a rigged game of poker or hopefully being the one who wins a stuffed animal at the carnival, nobody wins unless someone is watching and only then if you paid enough money.
I'm not idealistic, but perhaps a bit too principled maybe even moralistic to accept that it's okay to rip a guy off with false promises. I'm not looking to save these guys from anything. I do find these greedy agencies disgusting and I say so. That's all :D
Tom seems like a nice enough guy. I find myself agreeing with him most of the time. I can't do that here. Tom's lack of condemnation of HRB is easily construed by the unsuspecting honest Joe's as praise. Is it a coincidence that he accepted a free trip from CEO? Not to me it isn't.
-
GQ,
I do not disagree with anything you stated. I do think you may have went to an extreme or two, to make your point. I have no doubt there are many sincere women on the AWEBs and HRBs of the world. Most likely in much larger numbers than the few who make a tidy living bilking, the lonely and the horny goats. The young, sexy and willing women probably do very well.
There's bad ones on EMs but, I've not seen any evidence that EMs encourages or profits from such behavior. The same cannot be said for HRB, Loveme and the like agencies. It could also be said that EM isn't an agency.
Those agencies (HRB, AWEB and the like) are a business and protect their revenue streams. I get that. From what I've seen, the unsuspecting honest Joe has no choice (they believe) but to try and navigate through that bottleneck these agencies create, if they wish to meet and become acquainted with these foreign women. It is in that bottleneck that the fleecing begins. Some guys manage to do it. Obviously they need success stories to feed the monster and keep the illusion.
The basic business model of these places has been discussed to death on these boards. It is like playing a rigged game of poker or hopefully being the one who wins a stuffed animal at the carnival, nobody wins unless someone is watching and only then if you paid enough money.
I'm not idealistic, but perhaps a bit too principled maybe even moralistic to accept that it's okay to rip a guy off with false promises. I'm not looking to save these guys from anything. I do find these greedy agencies disgusting and I say so. That's all :D
Tom seems like a nice enough guy. I find myself agreeing with him most of the time. I can't do that here. Tom's lack of condemnation of HRB is easily construed by the unsuspecting honest Joe's as praise. Is it a coincidence that he accepted a free trip from CEO? Not to me it isn't.
FP,
It is a little much to claim that a lack of condemnation is equivalent to praise. It is also a stretch to conclude that Tom's integrity is suspect due to his acceptance of a free trip and absent any tangible evidence to suggest he is anything less than honest with his comments.
None of this is to suggest that other's opinions are any less valid - just that to subvert credibility on the strength of those arguments seems a bit weak IMO.
- Dan
-
Dan,
I do agree that *no condemnation * wouldn't equate to praise, nor Toms trip there, paid or not, challenge his personal integrity.
I would point out TomT also did similar though, in stating
Perhaps one of HRB's detractors should have gone in my stead. Then he could have come back and aired his stubborn preconceptions. In the end, if someone agrees with me, I am very astute. If not, I am a shill. C'est la vie!
This seems a bit of a premptive statement to disqualify any others possible critisisms?
on what grounds?
The fact never seems to occur to TomT ,that the opinions stated are not all preconceived, that HRB and agencies with like business models where given by some members a fair chance? and perhaps intentionally investigated for curiousity..
Their findings , different from Toms, are based on actual experiernces ,both with HRB/RML proper as a client (that he has never been)and with the affiliates and the *cough* workers in the FSU with perhaps far more first hand knowledge of such, than he seems to have.
Absolutely his opinion is welcomed as any others?
but no, i dont think its as valid as anyone thats been an actual client.
Or perhaps had far more exposer in the FSU to the gritty details of how the actual affilates work, the business model itself, who is employed, etc.
(as example: it is NOT only teenagers, and lets give the affiliates some credit in knowing their busines better than most here, and how to easily expand to other market areas including those seriously interested in an actual relationship with 30 and 40yo women)
That would be like me saying I find someones opinion that was invited to inspect a dive shop ,for one day,
to be as valid as a dive instuctors who worked in the dive ship for a year?
I also don't buy that cavet emptor covers all,
in the context of the forum.
I dint think the forum was here to promote GQ's Darwinism :) where only the strongest survive?
let the sharks feed where they will..if a guys silly enough to not see the obviuos fins in the water , or thinks they are dolphins,, well then..he wasnt *worthy* anyway.
(whatever that small percent may be of the clientle)
Yes I do agree with the earlier point that snake oil salemen have every right to sell elixer.
However some one paid to go have a look at the elixers factory , and seeing that its made with nothing that can actually harm you , doesnt mean its *healthy* as advertised.
Nor does it mean within the context of a health forum ,
the guy visiting the plant ,or seemingly defending its right to sell the product, isnt going to get called out about its lack of truth in advertising, regardless legal rights or fine print disclaimers?
it just seems a natural reaction in the context of this forum to me..
since few of us would be here if it wasnt due in part to some concern for other people in this venture?
I do believe men looking into such agencies and business models are warned here,
so it's a fly into an elephant.:)
-
AJ,
That was excellent and I couldn't have explained it better myself.
Dan,
I'm not impugning Tom's opinion or character whatsoever. I think he believes what he believes. His credibility is intact as far as I am concerned. He disclosed that the tab on his trip was picked up completely by CEO. I don't fault him for taking advantage of it. However, to give Tom a pass on objectivity concerning the operations and intentions of HRB? That dog don't hunt IMO
Tom and his wife made the trip to Florida on CEO's dime. As Andrew explained it, they went to audit HRB's operations. Do you not see this act of accepting and making the trip, tainting Tom's and Andrew's opinion of HRB? Audit is a mighty big stretch.
Tom while being hesitant to claim HRB as the second coming has done nothing to admit the negatives choosing instead to blame the suckers, caveat emptor. No Dan, IMHO HRB and the like don't get off so easy.
After the earlier ballyhoo and the rumors, I paid $50 bucks just to confirm or deny those rumors. I confirmed them, enough information for me anyway. I'm convinced whats happening at HRB and it doesn't jive with Tom's view.
-
As I was composing my earlier reply I almost made reference to the point about Social Darwinism and then realized there is a tightrope we walk here at RWD as we follow the tenet stated in the RWD Vision to encourage our members to exercise individual choice in all they do whether it is the choice to take an AFA tour or travel using youth hostels and hitch-hiking (as one extreme example). In promoting individual choice, it makes little sense for RWD to then take on the position that we intend to save someone from themselves through condemnation of one possible (and viable) option.
While we have seen numerous members complain of A-web and their practices, we have also seen several members who were wed through connections found at A-web. It was not so long ago that we made the effort to isolate the scamming practice at A-web, and except for some serious questions that were raised - no scam was exposed.
I remain in the camp that until and unless a scam is exposed, it is OTT to attach the 'scam' label to that agency. Perhaps the reticence is the same one that has prevented me from considering use of RWD as any kind of blacklist site. I just do not see the equity in that practice from this venue.
- Dan
-
Dan-
Like Aweb the literal scam definition doesnt fit most of the agencies , with all their appropriate disclaimers in place.
So we generally warn guys here of certain business models being prone to manipulation..?
Yes ,that seems fair enough, and inclusive enough overall?and I see your point.
I wasn't trying to stir this up again,
and will admit I took exception to the way Tom worded his post. Since it off-hand negated others viewpionts as merely preconceived, and therefor those views must be lacking depth or substance by implication right?
It simply seemed an old debating trick, not him restating his findings,or any new info.
stubborn? unfortunanetly yes :P
i dont feel any visit to Fla would ever make me somehow better informed , than my time as a client has.
preconceived , no.
A fair shake was absolutely given,
and for Tom to infer otherwise is the same as anyone questioning his bias from a paid trip?
Since I've never lamented any losses there, and certainly paid my own tab to gain my first hand observations.
-
Oh what a loaded subject for me. This is one I am a little tired of reading about. I would not recommend HRB or Aweb to anyone. As someone above said there are too many sharks in the water, but I think there is a misconception.
HRB does not own or contact or place the girls that appear on their site. They sign Contracts with seperate independent agencies in each city that meet the girls. I believe the computer systems at the agency have to be up to par. The local agency makes money on taking a share of translating letters and video chat. I've never personally seen a girl who got paid to chat, although I did not meet every girl, in fact really only one :) I do believe the agencies send introduction letters out from the girls, and some of the agencies probably send the follow up letters as well. They do this to get the guy to pay for services. I am not fond of this kind of deception, but anyone who reads the info on the site before they sign up is well informed about what kind of business it is. And you all should be suspicious when 30 - 50 girls a day write you. I mean I'm not ugly, but I'm not that hot either.
It is important to mention the structure because if you fly over to meet said girl your experience in city one, will be vastly different than your experience in city two. Your experience will depend on who owns that particular branch.
They have high quality photos because they pay professional photographers to come and photograph the girls. I don't know if girls pay for these photo's. I know my wife did not. You can tell all the photo's are professional.
I won't comment on the site itself it speaks for itself. I will say this though if you go to meet one of thier girls.
1. Avoid certain cities
2. Always pay your own translator that you hired
3. Stay in an apartment that you select and hire yourself.
4. have your translator, or heck a google search select where to go to eat and what to do
5. have your translator call the cab herself.
all the above will save you needless money. Do not buy expensive presents for girls you just met. I'm not saying being cheap, but she needs to be interested in you not in the things you buy for her. If you don't understand this difference do not go.
I can't say too much bad about HRB because ultimately I met my wife there. Although, that may have more to do with my wife and her particular agency than it did with HRB.
Her branch of the agency was always wonderful to me. They found me cheap rooms to stay in. Never overcharged me for anything. Helped arrange parties and engagement celebrations without too much expense. They were great people and deserve commendation.
-
I can't say too much bad about HRB because ultimately I met my wife there. Although, that may have more to do with my wife and her particular agency than it did with HRB.
Remiel, thanks for posting a real case of HRB success. Your case is evidence of what TomT was stating.
Your posts in the past have revealed you to be a reasonable man, and I assume your search for a wife was also reasonable (e. g., all FSU wives are outside their husbands' league, yet some men stretch way too far such as a huge age gap). Can you please add any more generic information (e. g., did your search focus immediately on your wife or write many women, was your correspondence period long or short, did you meet only one HRB woman, etc.)?
-
There are different paths for finding a FSU wife.
- Some paths have fewer obstacles, yet none are guaranteed to be free of mines.
- Some paths cost much more, yet the cost of even an expensive search is much less than the total cost of the whole venture to include her adjustment to a new life.
- The FSUW situation is changing, and paths that have been successful in the past may no be the most viable paths in the future.
Does thast mean I support HRB? No! You can count me as in Jumper's and FP's camp. I would not recommend HRB because I believe there are agency choices which cost less and have a better history of success (even though past history is no guarantee of future performance).
Regardless of the path chosen, I trust we will all agree that an unreasonable man is more likely to wreck along the way (and a reasonable man less likely).
-
Thank you for calling me reasonable.
as far as generic information I started with one premise and that was that I didn't know anything. I say this because I did not want to operate from a point of view of fear. To me deciding that I will only write women who are fluent in english, or women between 30 - 39 (Or whatever) is a limitation. Relationships have to be magical to me. There are no "rules" only guidelines, but if I knew anything I would not have waited until I was 37 to be married the first time. I wanted to enjoy the full spectrum of the experience.
The moment you narrow down fields, ie to avoid more work, you are also limiting the chances for something strange and magical to happen. Life is not a cook book. It's a mess and I was willing to accept the increased risk of Scammers, for the increased risk of success.
that being said everyone has to know themselves. Do not be afraid to go outside your comfort zone.
I had a long correspondence. We wrote everyday for five months before we met. We only used the video chat once. I am a huge proponent of letter writing. If a girl does not like to write letters it is a red flag to me.
It is worth noting we went outside of HRB to meet. My wife sent me an ecrypted email with another email address because she was leaving the site because she was moving. So after five months we started to chat "outside" the system. So it only took five months and 400 pages of letters to find out her last name lol. Not the swiftest progress.
I do however agree that ultimately you have to take the plunge and get on an airplane. It is only then you will know if its going to work or not. I would personally wait until I had written them for a few months before going and it never hurts to have a back up plan.
-
HRB does not own or contact or place the girls that appear on their site. They sign Contracts with seperate independent agencies in each city that meet the girls. I believe the computer systems at the agency have to be up to par. The local agency makes money on taking a share of translating letters and video chat. I've never personally seen a girl who got paid to chat, although I did not meet every girl, in fact really only one :) I do believe the agencies send introduction letters out from the girls, and some of the agencies probably send the follow up letters as well. They do this to get the guy to pay for services. I am not fond of this kind of deception, but anyone who reads the info on the site before they sign up is well informed about what kind of business it is. And you all should be suspicious when 30 - 50 girls a day write you. I mean I'm not ugly, but I'm not that hot either.
I'd like to offer my two cents on this argument.
I just spent two weeks in Kharkiv for very different purposes as compared to many of the TRs posted here. I did mention I met with some friends and made new ones who have no inclination with IMBs nor care about the issue and are more into internal politics. The following was said to me and not as a joke. Officially, the city of Kharkiv has reach the status of being 100% corrupt. All they need to do is have a massive celebration in Independence Sq and have the population show up with those #1 foam hands and start chanting "we're number 1." Kharkiv is NOT alone on this quest. I guess you can credit the present President to encourage this kind of mentality.
Now, with this level of corruption what should a person from the west expect from these agencies that subcontract with the likes of HRB? Notice that I have not said the women are into this corrupt system. Some are and some don't.
If I would offer any advice to a newbie, I would direct them to personalized services. There are a number of people in these fora that do that. Not going to mention names so the thread is not hijacked.
This endeavor is very different from the days I started. It is a real jungle out there today and, from my perspective, the newbies are just fresh meat. Most of these guys are going to need a lot of luck to be successful. OR be a little more methodical to minimize their risks. Emailing or skyping two or three times and then travelling to meet "them," IMNSHO, is asking for heartbreak. I hear people claiming that the risk of prolonged "dating" is that when met face-to-face there is no chemistry. If you haven't been able to find some chemistry during emailing or skyping, you better get to the next and try again. But, if your (man AND woman) idea of chemistry is more visual than soul-to-soul then it's a roll of the dice.
I'll offer my example; there were women more physically beautiful than my wife. My wife had better choices, physically speaking, than me. I saw a picture of the guy she dumped for me. We concentrated on what was important to us; finding a soulmate. I'll tell you this, after 12 years together and a few wrinkles, she looks prettier and prettier by the day.
Just determine what do you want. Then formulate a plan to reach that goal.
-
I had a long correspondence. We wrote everyday for five months before we met. We only used the video chat once. I am a huge proponent of letter writing. If a girl does not like to write letters it is a red flag to me.
It is worth noting we went outside of HRB to meet. My wife sent me an ecrypted email with another email address because she was leaving the site because she was moving. So after five months we started to chat "outside" the system. So it only took five months and 400 pages of letters to find out her last name lol. Not the swiftest progress.
Thank you for making my point.
-
Your welcome. I basically agree with you.
-
All good points. An old thread getting bumped and moving in a positive direction (IMO)
Dan, I haven't referred to HRB or the pay to cam sites/ by the letter places as scams although, I may feel that way. I have many times referred to them as shams. They are two different means IMO of reaching the same ends. I don't have it in for these joints in fact, I don't even think of them unless it's on the forum being discussed.
remiel6 is a success story of which I am confident there are many. However, if we explore the numbers by just those we come in contact with, it doesn't fare well for these type agencies.
I'm with Gator, guys entering this race now have to move the odds to their favor at every available opportunity. Minimize the risk and maximize the chances of success. These places do not seem to help a guy do that.
-
I myself would not even really recommend the site so take that wisdom for what it is worth. The method can work, but I advise bringing along some good mine land mine detection equipment as well.
-
I would point out TomT also did similar though, in stating
This seems a bit of a premptive statement to disqualify any others possible critisisms?
on what grounds?
The fact never seems to occur to TomT...
Lotsa facts occur to TomT. One of them is that, given enough interaction with individuals, their responses become predictable. Hence, when I begin to tire of a particular line of unproductive discussion, I sometimes throw out a preemptive comment as a slightly more polite variant of STFU.
The key to understanding me is empathy. I have been dealing with forum personae for so long that I analyze the person in parallel with the situation as a reflex. Please give me your analysis of Jeff and Yulia's communication. (I won't lead the witness.)
-
There comes a point and time when we no longer discuss and determine what is the best of the best, but rather, what's the least of all evil, to me it suggests we've reached the point of Darwinism. IMHO.
-
... I am simply resigned to believe it has in fact reached the point of Darwinism. IMHO.
Yes, it has. It many cases, we are discussing fiddling whilst Rome is in flames. Recently, a fellow arrived elsewhere and announced that the dysfunction in Russia has forced the women to be the sweet beauties that they are. Where does one begin?
:cluebat:
-
4) a service provider is not required to do whatever clients imagine that they should do; it is only required to do what is contractually stipulated. That's the law, whether anybody likes it or not.
5) HRB's business model is not my cup of tea. Nonetheless, I found many sincere women on their database who would probably make some lucky guy very happy. From what I've seen, most men bring failure upon themselves and then try to shift the blame elsewhere. That approach is rarely curative.
Tom, when guys, including the ones without fantasies, sign up for for those big agencies they are bombarded by women who send them letters. I once made free profiles at some of those sites to better understand them. Out of 300 emails I get from model quality women, average looking women, young and old. How do I tell the sincere women from the insincere? A guy has all kinds of temptation to pay to respond to one or more of the ladies. Thinking he's going to increase his odds by responding an older average looking woman who wrote him first is as much fantasy as responding to a young model quality RW.
Some talk about those men who fantasize but do you all fully understand reality? Have you ever used a free site? In the real world RW rarely contact a man first. Maybe 1 out of 1000 women would contact me first. That's reality but HRB/RLM feeds a fantasy when many of their customers are expecting reality.
Truth is all the emails from women that initiate contact with me are problaby sent by the employees of the agency. HRB/RLM don't know their customers, rich or poor, wise or stupid but all customers are to receive the same treatment.
Most guys coming off a divorce after 20 years of marriage forget about how to interact with women and that they don't understand the fact the overwhelming majority of women won't contact them first. Heck, they don't even have experience with internet dating since the internet didn't exist the last time they dated. I don't blame them and I don't blame RW sites entirely. American dating sites even sucker men into paying to read a letter from a good looking woman sent by the company after they initially created a free profile.
Tom, you tend to blame the customers who want to fulfill fantasies but ALL customers using HRB/RLM mail or video chat system will be bombarded by the young ladies wanting to communicate with them and burn up their money. Few or no men have signed up for fantasy yet they are getting it forced down their throats.
Over the years reading at a RW forum one can read a few stories about a guy's wife, gf, or RW friend who's been offered a job or took a job from a big bad agency to play men. It's always possible one or two guys making up stories but there are too many stories to discount them all.
I'm not so quick to blame the customer. I'm sure there are a lot of uneducated and unrefined people shopping at Walmart but does that give Walmart the right to bait and switch and play games with the products they sell and blame it on stupid customers?
Would any of you shop at a place that played games with you? Kudos to those who found a decent woman at HRB/RLM but man enough to say something wasn't right and you had games played with you. If anybody payed ANY agency to communicate with one or more women that have no interest or knowledge of communications with you, then you were duped. You were robbed.
If a guy wants to chat with a fantasy girl, there are companies that provide that service. There will be no mistake in what they are offering. HRB/RLM doesn't state anywhere they are providing fantasy services so they should eliminate the girls who are paid to communicate with men they have no sincere interest in. Some girls aren't paid but the feeder agencies promise them to get the first dates with the customers who come to town which in turn they will get a chance to take their dates shopping or get invited by love starved men to travel to exotic places. Because some girls have special agreements with agencies to get first crack at the men, they will also greatly improve their chances to marry. Aggressive insincere women do a better job attracting men compared to the good girls who who are busy working real jobs and responsible to come home and take care of family instead of heading to the agency chatting with hundreds of men from 10 PM to 4 AM in the morning.
First thing one has to do is to get it out of your head that the FSU works the same way it does in America or Europe. Consumers are not protected in the FSU as well as over here and make no mistake, if you sign up with an agency featuring RW, you are doing business with a RW agency and you are doing business FSU style. Crap happens on a much larger scale than what you're accustomed to. I'm not going to say all agencies are bad but the big ones with hundreds of feeder agencies are going to be tainted.
At large agencies a large majority of pictures of women are in bikinis, photoshopped, and studio quality which all makes the women more attractive some guys will take the gamble. When a guy signs up at a big agency, no matter how smart he is, he won't be able to tell the real from the unreal.
Tom, your investigation of HRB/RLM should have happened in the FSU at random feeder agencies of your choosing. not in America at the headquarters of CEO's choosing. Maybe CEO will make an offer to send you there? He's not stupid. He knows what goes on. He gets more complaints than what we read on the forum.
-
My wife sent me an ecrypted email with another email address because she was leaving the site because she was moving.
What do you mean by encrypted email? Do you mean that she found a way to hide her real email address in the body of an message sent via the agency/HRB?
-
A few points to add/clarify:
@FP. My insertion into the topic came from what I read as a call for condemnation. In fact, that was the term used. Since that is a VERY strong term, it inspired me to respond. I was explicitly directing my comments to what I see as a lack of evidence sufficient to condemn.
The 2nd point I made was to encourage everyone to accept others at face value. TomT is a guy who has been active on these fora for as long as anyone. He also has some first-hand experience that most do not. Unless a person is prepared to call him a liar, it should be taken on the face that he is offering his sincere opinion - even if that opinion flies in the face of the majority, as it seems so in this instance.
I would further point out that Tom is almost always defending against allegations from those who do not possess his same level of first-hand experience. Admittedly, some may have a different kind of first-hand experience - that of a user of the site. To the extent those first-hand experiences differ - there is fodder for debate (REASONED debate - not merely shouting over one another). In all the time I have seen these exchanges, they almost invariably devolve into someone attacking Tom over a *perceived* issue - and not one that is honestly recounted from first-hand experience.
This is not unlike the reaction I receive when I tell people that I've had personal contact with the owners of HRB and A-web (and CuteOnly and Mordinson and AFA and . . . ). To the extent that folks have formed an opinion (and almost all have), they react and it is usually negative. The internet is rife with criticisms of HRB and A-web (and others) - AND - there are certainly problems with the business model as remiel6 points out (and has been discussed here in the past) - but the internet is not a court and does not possess the ability to impart a just outcome. [Some will question the Court's ability to impart a just outcome vice the Casey Anthony case currently in the news - but that is :offtopic: for these purposes]
@Jumper. The above represents my interpretation of Tom's "preemptive" comment upthread. Quite possibly because I have been witness to many of the attacks exchanges he has been drawn into on this subject, my interpretation of the comment was a bit different than an entirely objective party.
@Gator. As posted above, mine was not intended to seek recommendation. Instead, I was reacting to the call for condemnation. It is the same reaction I have whenever we have someone coming to RWD to label someone else a scammer - or declare an IMB a scam agency. It is certainly fair game to present opinions and first-hand experience - and especially to inform others of the potholes that potentially await them. At the same time, we make a point of vetting all claims that a lady is a scammer and insist the declarant offer up something tangible in evidence. The same is applicable here - at least, IMO.
@GQ. I confess to feeling tempted to declare some of this as the manifestation of Social Darwinism. At the same time, Jumper is correct that one of RWD's greatest values to its members is to enable them to learn from others that have gone before them. My sense is that anyone who spends the time to read RWD will draw the impression that our members strongly discourage the use of certain agency business models.
I am reminded of the fact we have published some basic tools designed to give guidance in such matters. Look to the Footer Menu and one will find an "Agency Score Card" (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=3) which, if followed, would likely help folks avoid some/many of the issues addressed in this topic. We also publish the "Agency Code of Ethics" (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=1) as another guide in what to look for in an agency - and by extension, what to avoid.
I hope this clarifies my intent behind my earlier posts.
I *do* have some semi-related observations about the "BlackList" sites and what has become of the one most notable - but that is for a different topic.
- Dan
-
Lotsa facts occur to TomT. One of them is that, given enough interaction with individuals, their responses become predictable. Hence, when I begin to tire of a particular line of unproductive discussion, I sometimes throw out a preemptive comment as a slightly more polite variant of STFU.
The key to understanding me is empathy. I have been dealing with forum personae for so long that I analyze the person in parallel with the situation as a reflex. Please give me your analysis of Jeff and Yulia's communication. (I won't lead the witness.)
Tom T,
While you have been around for a long time , and perhaps hold a position at times that many will debate..
I do have empathy with you having limited patience.
that said:
any polite way of saying ST#@U ,
is still saying you simple don't want to hear any other viewpoint, as you've heard it all before. :rolleyes:
It was indeed preemptive and dismissive.
That is about as unproductive as we can get on a forum built on discussion.
Safe bet Tom is that I remember the same older message boards and was around since brahma or st johns lists, my patience perhaps on this subject isn't any greater than your own? So perhaps you'll be so generous as to extend the same empathy that you expect in return?
Why ask me specifically about jeff's case that you read ?
Is it somehow relevant to warning members of a poor business model many feel
they should avoid??
You already stated Mr Coffee should have been lucid enough to recognize the canned letters? What if as you implied, and by actions .. he simply isn't?
Then his complaint isn't valid?Many firms faced with what appeared a client not capable of routine obvious choices( your implication) would simply give a refund!
Seems a diversion from the intent here to me, unless you are looking at it from a purely legal standpoint?
Pretty sure we all already conceded that snake oil salesmen have every right to sell elixer ?
Since I was a client, and have extended first hand experience to comment from,
I hardly need to comment on jeffs experience or compliant?
I do feel as if you expect some sort of apology for pointing out that waters wet,
when i have first hand long term experience that it is.
I'm not even slightly disgruntled about it ,so don't make that assumption, I like a good swim!!
The point is: if men are asking here, I'd like them to know its likely going to be wet.to be prepared accordingly!
and that seems more than accomplished. :deadhorse:
Not even sure why you jumped back in ,that motivation puzzles me .
but if you want to quite accurately point out that certain businesses can make water cold enough to be dry, at least temporarily ,and as long as the right conditions prevail, so be it.
Overall I find that accurate, but in context here,also a bit misleading.
Dan-
Tom has been around awhile ,yes I'm sure he is reporting exactly what he saw.
He is also returning to a long dead thread.. actively engaging in it ,
with polite preemptive variants of *just shut up* , LOL
Seems like he doesn't mind wading right back in? So his lamenting his own lack of patience for the topic ,is odd.
I do completely understand our experiences vary,
his is visiting the home office, mine is direct contact with those employed by affiliates.
Face value should be reciprocal.
-
Just a quick factoid that puzzles me a bit.
This thread started back in November of last year.
It is indexed by google and if one searches the term "hrb russian" a link to RWD is in fourth place with a 'see more from this site' that shows this and other threads at RWD referencing HRB. RUA is in 5th place.
This thread is 'only' 18 pages long which is the puzzling part.. It should be in the hundreds of pages if a vast amount of their customers have experienced a problem or feel it is a rip-off. Both RWD and RUA should be inundated with angry folk..
Where are they? Maybe most are getting what they signed up for and are happy with that? Kinda makes sense if the 90% keyboard Romeo rule holds. That might well be part of the 'marketing plan', but even then I don't notice an influx of fresh members complaining either from the remaining 10%.. -all considered, not even a dribble.. so what's up?
Is all this just tilting at windmills? The cast seems to remain much the same regardless which google link one clicks.
Oh well..
-
....@GQ. I confess to feeling tempted to declare some of this as the manifestation of Social Darwinism. At the same time, Jumper is correct that one of RWD's greatest values to its members is to enable them to learn from others that have gone before them. My sense is that anyone who spends the time to read RWD will draw the impression that our members strongly discourage the use of certain agency business models.
I am reminded of the fact we have published some basic tools designed to give guidance in such matters. Look to the Footer Menu and one will find an "Agency Score Card" (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=3) which, if followed, would likely help folks avoid some/many of the issues addressed in this topic. We also publish the "Agency Code of Ethics" (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=1) as another guide in what to look for in an agency - and by extension, what to avoid....
Dan, I concur with the underlying notion that discussion like this one should, in of itself, serve the purpose of what we try to achieve for those folks venturing anew, or folks who may be interested in a different/fresh (counter) perspective. "Points/Counter Points." It is difficult enough for those who haven't yet experienced what its like to operate outside of your social element and environment, let alone having to choose between lesser evils (services/agencies) without much of a first hand experience with any of them.
So discussions like this, on up to actual recommendation/s, hopefully can reach those who may find it useful regardless of their ultimate decisions. In the end, and much we can agree with, it is up to that specific individual to do what *he* personally feels he needs to do, or feel what's suited for him.
An aside: I am curious about one thing, specifically what remiel was brave enough to bring to the table (I hope Alex can chime in as well). If remiel succeeded, why not share his first hand experience as a 'HRB for Dummies' sort of thing. Highlight what can be done, what should be done, and how to dodge and duck from the barrage of invites from long-legged delectable maidens. To me that would be more 'helpful' a contribution than simply dismissing it as saying you won't recommend something that proved fruitful for you. After all, in more ways than one, doing so gives substance to my point that for the most part the responsibility lies with the consumer and it really isn't about the HRBs & the Awebs et al...
-
An aside: I am curious about one thing, specifically what remiel was brave enough to bring to the table (I hope Alex can chime in as well). If remiel succeeded, why not share his first hand experience as a 'HRB for Dummies' sort of thing. Highlight what can be done, what should be done, and how to dodge and duck from the barrage of invites from long-legged delectable maidens. To me that would be more 'helpful' a contribution than simply dismissing it as saying you won't recommend something that proved fruitful for you. After all, in more ways than one, doing so gives substance to my point that for the most part the responsibility lies with the consumer and it really isn't about the HRBs & the Awebs et al...
Remiel pretty much stated that it was the encrypted e-mail his lady sent via their correspondence that actually allowed them to take their relationship outside of HRB's sphere of influence. I wonder how much longer or how successful he would have been had she not been able to give him her real e-mail addy?
-
Remiel pretty much stated that it was the encrypted e-mail his lady sent via their correspondence that actually allowed them to take their relationship outside of HRB's sphere of influence. I wonder how much longer or how successful he would have been had she not been able to give him her real e-mail addy?
I understand Hammer but there was that *5 month* period that transpired prior to that point. Those are critical months IMO.
-
BC,
" hrb russian" is not something most people would google when looking for information about HRB.
If you google more realistic phrases,such as hotrussianbrides,or hotrussianbrides scam,or hotrussianbrides scammers ,this thread doesn't even reach the first ten pages.
-
I understand Hammer but there was that *5 month* period that transpired prior to that point. Those are critical months IMO.
Yes, quite true but considering that she was leaving the agency and moving to another city, her actions were the only thing I think that allowed them to be successful.It quite possible he could have lost her forever had she not taken that desperate action.
-
Yes, quite true but considering that she was leaving the agency and moving to another city, her actions were the only thing I think that allowed them to be successful.It quite possible he could have lost her forever had she not taken that desperate action.
Yes, and it took 400 pages worth of letters to get there. I can only guess how much these letters ended up costing :o Now, let's imagine that Remiel had met someone on EM or a singles.ru or bride.ru. She could have openly sent him her email address, her Skype name, her phone number, pretty much anything within days, not months at a fraction of the cost... Also, I would be curious to know how many women he had to write before finding one who was sincere.
-
BC,
" hrb russian" is not something most people would google when looking for information about HRB.
If you google more realistic phrases,such as hotrussianbrides,or hotrussianbrides scam,or hotrussianbrides scammers ,this thread doesn't even reach the first ten pages.
Yes, I see, but it would be normal that more content related to 'hotrussianbrides' would be present and rank higher in such a search that includes that term.
I take it their business model changed so I did a search for 'hotrussianbride scam' and restricted results to the last month. Did not see any real complaints on the first couple of pages but my review was brief. I would think a company in that market would be doing a lot of search engine optimization to fill the first few pages of results.
Quite honestly I don't think there is much general interest in raising a fuss and doubt grave harm is being done. Just guys and gals getting their jollies somehow.
I would guess that someone who is really irritated would look for a forum type place to rave on, but really don't see much of that here. Is there some really active site out there that is showing a lot of recent complaints?
Haven't a clue as to how many customers they have but if they have a lot I'm not seeing the problem on this end and if they have only a few then the impact can't be that bad.
FWIW
-
Yes, and it took 400 pages worth of letters to get there. I can only guess how much these letters ended up costing :o Now, let's imagine that Remiel had met someone on EM or a singles.ru or bride.ru. She could have openly sent him her email address, her Skype name, her phone number, pretty much anything within days, not months at a fraction of the cost... Also, I would be curious to know how many women he had to write before finding one who was sincere.
Which is where my curiosity lie, although not the only one.
Hammer, based on what remiel said, he had for the most part 'gone through' the HRB passage and was already 'working' with one of their service agencies to get him to the point of selecting his future wife from likely a myriad of selections and/or temptations. That 'passage' is one of the challenging aspect of this service based on what some are emphasizing in this thread.
Also, to add, remiel did say the 'switch' didn't occur until that encrypted email, which if I understood him right, happened prior to their meeting. But then he also said he had used the agency services to get him accomodation during his travel, IINM. Did the agency have any *idea* who he was meeting since presumably he and his wife were then in 'hidden' communication?
This is why I think it'll be helpful to expand upon.
-
Tom, when guys, including the ones without fantasies, sign up for for those big agencies they are bombarded by women who send them letters. I once made free profiles at some of those sites to better understand them. Out of 300 emails I get from model quality women, average looking women, young and old. How do I tell the sincere women from the insincere? A guy has all kinds of temptation to pay to respond to one or more of the ladies. Thinking he's going to increase his odds by responding an older average looking woman who wrote him first is as much fantasy as responding to a young model quality RW.
<snip>
Actually, very good post there Billy.
-
Her branch of the agency was always wonderful to me. They found me cheap rooms to stay in. Never overcharged me for anything. Helped arrange parties and engagement celebrations without too much expense. They were great people and deserve commendation.
Care to share who and where they are?
-
Yes BC,
Another forum member,Neo,was saying that the local agency terps in Ukraine were telling him that only 1 in 250 men from sites such as HRB/RLM and Anastasia actually travel to Ukraine to meet a girl,so from that we can assume most men on these sites are happy to get their jollies just communicating with the girls through these sites,hence the lack of complaints i guess.
No doubt the recession over the last three years has stopped a lot of these men going to Ukraine.
There is actually a current complaint from a man who went to meet a HRB girl in June this year,in the prodaters section on Romancescam.com,but the complaint is about the girl and her local agency in Kherson,not about HRB.
-
my wife is from Lugansk
-
my wife is from Lugansk
Excuse me but
:ROFL:
I have a twisted SOH and I am thinking what if you came to RWD BEFORE you met your wife and posted: I have been corresponding for 5 months to a UW from Lugansk via the HRB agency. What do you guys think?
90% of the readers woulld have told you to cut your losses. 40% would have called you an idiot.
-
Excuse me but
:ROFL:
I have a twisted SOH and I am thinking what if you came to RWD BEFORE you met your wife and posted: I have been corresponding for 5 months to a UW from Lugansk via the HRB agency. What do you guys think?
90% of the readers woulld have told you to cut your losses. 40% would have called you an idiot.
I remember joining RWG after I proposed to my wife and was hunting down marriage / immigration info. My first thoughts.. OMG.. am I getting scammed?
Gator, your calculations are probably spot on, if not a bit conservative.
-
Another forum member,Neo,was saying that the local agency terps in Ukraine were telling him that only 1 in 250 men from sites such as HRB/RLM and Anastasia actually travel to Ukraine to meet a girl....
If such is the case, HRB will design its business model to make money from letter writing and selling flowers, teddy bears and chocs.
However, it also begs the question: would 25 of these same 250 men have traveled to Ukraine if they had intially worked with an agency selling memberships rather than correspondence services? If a higher percentage of the women were indeed sincere about considering marriage to a foreigner?
There is actually a current complaint from a man who went to meet a HRB girl in June this year,in the prodaters section on Romancescam.com,but the complaint is about the girl and her local agency in Kherson,not about HRB.
Yes, but as the general contractor HRB is responsible for its subcontractor and the service/product it delivers. The HRB CEO was implementing initiatives to improve service, and he promised to return to tell us more. He has not returned.
-
Well,i think the fact she was on HRB would have been a big no no,but remiel has already explained what happened there.
As for Lugansk,well Jack Bragg and Vinnvinny both recommend that city as a place to look for a serious woman nowadays,with Jack saying Mariupol as the scam centre now,and Vinnvinny saying Nikolaev deserves that title.
-
Well, maybe it's not too late warn him!!!!
Remiel, stop it, you're getting scammed!
(just kidding, of course) :P
-
I think someone would be making a good choice to go to Lugansk. It was a center for scam agencies but the women there have no higher ratio of scammers than any other city and less than Kiev or Odessa. Lots of guys get scared of it and won't go which means the percentages are better for those who do go. I liked Lugansk as a place to search when I was there.
I do trust Jack's suggestions of places to go and places to avoid. He has more experience than anyone
-
The key to understanding me is empathy. I have been dealing with forum personae for so long that I analyze the person in parallel with the situation as a reflex.
Okay Tom, you have my empathy. Please tell me for what I should empathize and why. :D
I gather that you depend more on qualitative analysis rather than quantitative analysis.
I do not know exactly what data you examined upon which to draw your conclusions. Did you take all HRB correspondence for one day and categorize it as: 1) reasonable correspondence between a man and woman trying to get to know one another, 2) Joe Sixpack having R rated fun with pretty girls (or their ghost writer), 3) unsolicited enticing letter from a pretty girl who has done the same with many men, 4) bald, fat, old and/or stupid (any three) trying to romance a real hottie well outside his league,....?
If not, would you care to guess at the percentages?
-
As for Lugansk,well Jack Bragg and Vinnvinny both recommend that city as a place to look for a serious woman nowadays,with Jack saying Mariupol as the scam centre now,and Vinnvinny saying Nikolaev deserves that title.
Please pardon me as I am old and out of touch. The irony is what humored me, which works under my outdated misconceptions that Lugansk is full of scammers.
I still had a good laugh even if it was by myself. I do that a lot.
-
Yes, but as the general contractor HRB is responsible for its subcontractor and the service/product it delivers. The HRB CEO was implementing initiatives to improve service, and he promised to return to tell us more. He has not returned.
Gator,
In business I have learned that there will always be the 10% that are PIA's so best to do whatever necessary to get them off your back so you don't tie up your time taking care of the 90% that you do profit from.
It's a toss up, damned if you do damned if you don't.
I think most agencies that try to compete with the letter/video crowd and concentrates on the 10% are doomed to fail (and there have been a few that tried this approach). Jack seems to be an exception since his primary business is not the dating/marriage field and he deals with those who are most likely to get on a plane. I doubt he could live comfortably from tours alone.
IIRC there are some high roller agencies out there, but the sticker price alone is a deterrent for most mortals and have little need to reach overseas.
Another way of looking at it is that the serious guys are subsidized by keyboard romeos, so why complain at all?
-
Tom, you tend to blame the customers who want to fulfill fantasies but ALL customers using HRB/RLM mail or video chat system will be bombarded by the young ladies wanting to communicate with them and burn up their money.
... Tom, your investigation of HRB/RLM should have happened in the FSU at random feeder agencies of your choosing.
I blame guys who try to evade responsibility for their own failures. I have no issue with fantasies; we all have 'em.
I signed up for a trip to Florida. Travelling abroad was out of the question because, at the time, Nessi was here on a single-entry visa. Even if that had not been an issue, I had no interest in visiting any affiliate agencies. It's well known that corruption is rampant in the FSU; we don't need a man on the ground to confirm it.
-
You are absolutely correct, Jumper, I should have STFU. Apparently, I'm older but no wiser.
-
TomT , lol
I do respect you for sticking to what you actually found,
just the facts ma'am.
I would admit going to their office I would likely find the same, and have to report the same.
This debate is a bit funny in that everyone acknowledges the level of corruption within the FSU affiliate agencies,
yet has differing views on how much responcibilty any large corporate home office is accountable for their affiliates.Or how much they count on them being corrupt? ;)
Appears to hinge on perceived *intent*
GQ-
I could state how to best *try* and navigate that minefield.
but i'm loathe to send anyone towards a known minefield..
prefer to direct them to greener pastures?
One reason,the very basic premise, how do you tell someone how to sense and detect sincerety somewhat accurately and quickly?
Truth is I don't know how to, yet i've always managed to do so, I can see it in someone readily.. or just lucky a great percentage of the time? Who is to know?
( in that quick context,, I certainly can miss sincerety in people of course! so may pass by some that where sincere)
but i'm rarely taken in by insincerety.
-
.....GQ-
I could state how to best *try* and navigate that minefield.
but i'm loathe to send anyone towards a known minefield..
prefer to direct them to greener pastures?
One reason,the very basic premise, how do you tell someone how to sense and detect sincerety somewhat accurately and quickly?
Truth is I don't know how to, yet i've always managed to do so, I can see it in someone readily.. or just lucky a great percentage of the time? Who is to know?
( in that quick context,, I certainly can miss sincerety in people of course! so may pass by some that where sincere)
but i'm rarely taken in by insincerety.
Jumper-
If this was in response to my curiosity posts about remiel's experience, then I submit that's part of the reason I thought it would *somehow* give an overview on how can anyone (the stubborn ones anyway) go through the *passage* with an emphasis for damage control, or sheer scam avoidance altogether. After all, that is a part of giving out advice to someone asking for guidance.
Your second point is basically my position in this discussion. You are equipped with your innate/acquired senses to keep you from harm, so basically you can likely go through the process unscathed. Probably just like Remiel did.
So CE?
-
Sorry for the delay. I will attempt to clarify a few points.
1. yes the email encryption happened before we met. My wife wrote me telling me that because she was moving and could not come to the agency anymore our communication would have to stop. I told her not to, that I would pay HRB for the information and get her phone number and real address. The problem is my wife's English was not very good. So she wrote me back and gave me the translators email address and I wrote the translator and then in a separate email, once we communicated outside HRB I received her real address.
2. as for cost it was about 50 - 70 dollars a month. I paid for a monthly subscription or something like that.
3. She wrote her first letter to me on August 1st and we met in person Just before Christmas. I think December 22 or 23.
4. I was paranoid because she was from Lugansk, but in the end she never asked for anything. She never asked for presents, or had sick parents. As Christmas approached I asked her what she wanted for Christmas and she said me :) , so I gave her a suprise present. :)
If I missed any questions let me know.
-
Since there's been very little information provided about RLM, I wanted to share that this site is 100% a scam based on the following:
You sign up for the website through their silver membership which allows you to send an initial email (or response) and read all mail.
You receive an initial email from GIRL A (in addition to thirty others). Email appears to be form email, but you send a reply anyway. She sends you bogus attachment of her from a script called "AttachmentImageGenerator.aspx"
Three days later, after you've CONVERSING with said individual, she sends you the identical FORM email that you received initially.
Stay away from HRB/RLM.
-
No surprises here. That's the general consensus...
-
This subject has been done to death.
Like any site, HRB has its mix of genuine, pro daters and dodgy agencies.
The diamonds in the rough are girls who signed up direct with them through zolushka. My ex did that, these girls generally are ones with normal photos, write letters that aren't form since they aren't translated and are very rarely on chat and unlikely to write to you unless you write to them first.
The cam girls and permachatters - well its obvious. Just log on several days a row, if they live online its obviously pay for chat, if they only log in at lunchtime or late in the evening its because they have a normal job, life etc.
The website is a good model, they know virtually nobody who goes on there is ever going to turn up so they extract an appropriate rent for their digital services.
The mistake a lot of guys are making is thinking they are a marriage agency - they are not, they are a niche version of match.com that focuses on rw uw. You have to treat it the same
Its unfair to accuse them of scamming per se, a lot of men are scamming themselves by choosing women who are obviously playing with them and out of their league, if you want a fantasy then hrb will sell you that, but its your choice and is no different than paying a webcam girl for chat.
Are there girls there who just do it for fun. Yes, my ex and all her friends signed up as a fun hobby, none of them expected to meet anyone. If the right guy turned up they were open to it but they were very clear they werent going to accept any old guy with the right passport.
I've used both hrb and anastasia, anastasia is an outright scam. All my ex's letters she wrote herself, the girl i dated on AD didnt even know who i was. Meet the right girl on HRB and you can go it alone, AD translators make it almost impossible to even spend 5 minutes alone with your date.
Where the problem is
Some of the same local agencies that operate on AD operate on HRB - so they pull the same scam, if you have an agency girl you are more likely to be in trouble, if you meet a girl who signed up via zolushka chances are you have a good chance if you tick all her boxes.
Another point, conditional to their agency memberships the girls have to write to the older guys who they dont want and take the first meeting with them. The girls arent scamming you, the agencies are, but if you write to a girl 30 years younger than you and you dont look like goerge clooney you are cruising for a burn anyway.
As long as you treat HRB like match.com, ignore the spam, don't get sucked into expensive chatathons and are selective with the profiles you choose and realistic about your likely attractiveness then there are some nuggets of gold in there because zolushka has good marketing.
but you have to treat it like dating opportunities that may lead to a serious relationship, not a marriage agency and be wise enough to avoid the pro's.
-
This subject has been done to death.
Like any site, HRB has its mix of genuine, pro daters and dodgy agencies.
The diamonds in the rough are girls who signed up direct with them through zolushka. My ex did that, these girls generally are ones with normal photos, write letters that aren't form since they aren't translated and are very rarely on chat and unlikely to write to you unless you write to them first.
The cam girls and permachatters - well its obvious. Just log on several days a row, if they live online its obviously pay for chat, if they only log in at lunchtime or late in the evening its because they have a normal job, life etc.
The website is a good model, they know virtually nobody who goes on there is ever going to turn up so they extract an appropriate rent for their digital services.
The mistake a lot of guys are making is thinking they are a marriage agency - they are not, they are a niche version of match.com that focuses on rw uw. You have to treat it the same
Its unfair to accuse them of scamming per se, a lot of men are scamming themselves by choosing women who are obviously playing with them and out of their league, if you want a fantasy then hrb will sell you that, but its your choice and is no different than paying a webcam girl for chat.
Are there girls there who just do it for fun. Yes, my ex and all her friends signed up as a fun hobby, none of them expected to meet anyone. If the right guy turned up they were open to it but they were very clear they werent going to accept any old guy with the right passport.
I've used both hrb and anastasia, anastasia is an outright scam. All my ex's letters she wrote herself, the girl i dated on AD didnt even know who i was. Meet the right girl on HRB and you can go it alone, AD translators make it almost impossible to even spend 5 minutes alone with your date.
Where the problem is
Some of the same local agencies that operate on AD operate on HRB - so they pull the same scam, if you have an agency girl you are more likely to be in trouble, if you meet a girl who signed up via zolushka chances are you have a good chance if you tick all her boxes.
Another point, conditional to their agency memberships the girls have to write to the older guys who they dont want and take the first meeting with them. The girls arent scamming you, the agencies are, but if you write to a girl 30 years younger than you and you dont look like goerge clooney you are cruising for a burn anyway.
As long as you treat HRB like match.com, ignore the spam, don't get sucked into expensive chatathons and are selective with the profiles you choose and realistic about your likely attractiveness then there are some nuggets of gold in there because zolushka has good marketing.
but you have to treat it like dating opportunities that may lead to a serious relationship, not a marriage agency and be wise enough to avoid the pro's.
Why use PPL/PPC sites at all? Most of the girls that use these sites also use the free sites as well. It makes absolutely no sense to spend that kind of maney on the off chance that you will find a diamond in the rough...
-
Personally i dont use the chat function at all and stay within the bundled email package, i qualified a long time ago so can request direct contact from any serious potentials,
I've tried everything from pof to match and the free personals and go with what works for me, i like their packaging so am happy to pay a reasonable fee for their service.
I found match.com and pof to be a complete waste of time, and other free websites had lots of dead profiles - anastasia i wont even consider and em never worked for me.
That said i'm only in my thirties so write to women close to my age, as said nothing works for everyone, i wouldn't recommend any one website or service.
-
if you want a fantasy then hrb will sell you that,
It's been a few years since I looked at their site so I just took another peek and nowhere do they say they are selling fantasies. I believe the porn industry has more integrity when it comes to advertising.
-
And prostitutes have better morals and are more honest than the prodaters from HRB/RLM.
-
HRB issued me a writ only a few months back saying they own the term "Hot Russian brides" which was a trade mark and I was breaking the law by using the key words "Hot Russian brides" In my site. As if I would want that shitty wording in my site anyway!
-
HRB issued me a writ only a few months back saying they own the term "Hot Russian brides" which was a trade mark and I was breaking the law by using the key words "Hot Russian brides" In my site. As if I would want that shitty wording in my site anyway!
Well, obviously you were using the term to try to steal their traffic.
But then again, you aren't a stranger to dubious practice are you? As anyone who Googles email2femail (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=8611.0) would know.
-
Well, obviously you were using the term to try to steal their traffic.
But then again, you aren't a stranger to dubious practice are you? As anyone who Googles email2femail (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=8611.0) would know.
Ohh dear its mr clean cut manny! Firstly I have no need to steal their traffic!As every other Russian dating related site "hot russian brides" is one of hundreds of key words. I have the fastest growing most legitimate site on the net:) people do all sorts of things to start a business and Im sure spamming a few forums is just one of many things. The site has been created by someone who has much more experience In Eastern Europe than you could possibly ever imagine. I would be very carful what you say mr manny I am close friends with several of your clients and things have moved on considerably over the last five years:) I do not intend to get into arguments with you again.
-
Ohh dear its mr clean cut manny! Firstly I have no need to steal their traffic!As every other Russian dating related site "hot russian brides" is one of hundreds of key words. I have the fastest growing most legitimate site on the net:) people do all sorts of things to start a business and Im sure spamming a few forums is just one of many things. The site has been created by someone who has much more experience In Eastern Europe than you could possibly ever imagine. I would be very carful what you say mr manny I am close friends with several of your clients and things have moved on considerably over the last five years:) I do not intend to get into arguments with you again.
I hope you use Spell Check on your website. Just sayin! Nice rant, though.
-
I hope you use Spell Check on your website. Just sayin! Nice rant, though.
Thanks:) There is plenty more from where that comes, one of this guys clients is a monitor on my site .
If you see any mmm spelling mistakes let me know 8)
-
I would be very carful what you say mr manny I am close friends with several of your clients and things have moved on considerably over the last five years:)
More threats? :-\
I doubt you know *any* of my clients.
I do not intend to get into arguments with you again.
A wise choice.
-
More threats? :-\
I doubt you know *any* of my clients.
A wise choice.
Would you like me to prove you wrong? I believe one of your clients, well your wife's clients for your Skype translation service, is actually a moderator for my site among other things . May I remind you of the terms for commercial members of this forum just incase God Almighty never took time to read "(2) May not engage in ANY contentious exchange with any other Commercial member.
Good Maddy I hope I will not be troubled by you again >:(
-
If you want to lecture me on forum rules, peruse the ones about duplicate accounts.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=8980.msg174609#msg174609 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=8980.msg174609#msg174609)
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=9499.0 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=9499.0)
Banning actions are considered security measures to protect International Relations and its members. Registering an account to circumvent a ban is an action to penetrate International Relations' security measures.
Is this your third account here? Fourth? Fifth?
No need to reply and try to deflect further that you were busted using HRB's trade mark.
I do not intend to get into arguments with you again.
Take your own advice.
-
If you want to lecture me on forum rules, peruse the ones about duplicate accounts.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=8980.msg174609#msg174609 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=8980.msg174609#msg174609)
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=9499.0 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=9499.0)
Is this your third account here? Fourth? Fifth?
No need to reply and try to deflect further that you were busted using HRB's trade mark.
Take your own advice.
Try growing up and moving on. Im not wasting any more breath on you :deadhorse:
-
Some industries and business segments seem to foster less cooperation among it's members than others. I have noticed lawyers cooperate to a large degree. They make more money together than separately. I have noticed furniture manufactures are almost paranoid at the presence of any other furniture manufacture ... artists? they are even worse.
But, there does seem to be a slew of shhhhet among all those that are in the MOB biz. Why?
There are many reasons, and most should be obvious. But, the bottom line is that most American men are seeking only a chance with a good women. That can come in chance encounters; in agencies that are mostly focused on generating income (it is a business after all); or in a business that is less ambitious in its business philosophy and more sincere with its mission (very rare).
I think volunteering for charities and missions would be more humanly enriching, and a superior way to actually meet normal people. There are language exchanges at universities. These seem superior ways to meet people to me. Once a woman advertises herself in an accelerated - often time false - match making / marriage service ... well, little good comes from that. Of course there are exceptions.
-
Should I be criticised for a few shall we say misdemeanors? Any body who knows anybody in the Internet business will be fully aware big sites such as Facebook and Vkontact along with many others in the early days used many underhand tactics to get a footing, including hacking many other sites ( Im not defending them). Five years ago, after already spending nearly five years in Eastern Europe on all sorts of adventures I decided my home was in Russia. I set about creating a Russian dating site, for me the internet was something I had never been involved with and I had no idea how I was going to promote my first site!
Like so many I did what ever I could to try to bring some traffic to the site, that included joining up to a whole load of forums and dating sites often under other names leaving links. Of course that was five years ago, times have moved on considerably now. Tactics I used to promote my site five years ago I know now are a total waste of time. You live and learn by your mistakes, even the greatest leaders in history.
For me it was not about making huge amounts of money, I was on a mission to live my Russian dream if that involved just making $100 a week and working part time in Russia so be it. No one here can understand my sheer determination to relocate to Mother Russia, for many it would be an impossible task.
That is all history now! As things have turned out I have developed the fastest growing site on the net for Eastern European dating, other than Cupid I have more women signing up from search results daily than any other sites, sometimes by the bus load. Of course I want to make some money from the business. But out of all vast majority of "Russian bride" related businesses on the net I am one of the few who actually lives and is involved in Russia along with probably more trips, travels and adventures than the vast majority on this forum, I speak Russian have many many Russian friends and have a huge wealth of knowledge on Russia.
Do I deserve to be criticised for a few spamming and web promotion tactics from five years ago??
Excuse any bad grammar :P
-
That is all history now! As things have turned out I have developed the fastest growing site on the net for Eastern European dating, other than Cupid I have more women signing up from search results daily than any other sites, sometimes by the bus load. Of course I want to make some money from the business. But out of all vast majority of "Russian bride" related businesses on the net I am one of the few who actually lives and is involved in Russia along with probably more trips, travels and adventures than the vast majority on this forum, I speak Russian have many many Russian friends and have a huge wealth of knowledge on Russia.
Do I deserve to be criticised for a few spamming and web promotion tactics from five years ago??
I was with you right up to this part. You seem to be making some claims likely nobody can substantiate and likely quite dishonest. Eastern European dating is pretty broad. Also, your claim of one of the few who live it would be wrong, too.
The answer to the criticism you speak of is yes. You do deserve it if you did it. Admit it as you are doing, stop doing it and move on.
Nobody here faults you that I know of, for plugging your business. That's why we have commercial members. They are all chumming for business. It's expected, within limits.
I would caution you however to not bring your personal battles/disagreements from other fora here to RWD to play out. We have enough organic flames that originate here to be the dumping ground of others. Fair enough?
-
I was with you right up to this part. You seem to be making some claims likely nobody can substantiate and likely quite dishonest. Eastern European dating is pretty broad. Also, your claim of one of the few who live it would be wrong, too.
The answer to the criticism you speak of is yes. You do deserve it if you did it. Admit it as you are doing, stop doing it and move on.
Nobody here faults you that I know of, for plugging your business. That's why we have commercial members. They are all chumming for business. It's expected, within limits.
I would caution you however to not bring your personal battles/disagreements from other fora here to RWD to play out. We have enough organic flames that originate here to be the dumping ground of others. Fair enough?
I do believe I never brought any battles here from any other forums? I also believe I did not actually start any battles with any commercial members? Or never have done on personal level?
Im interested in what claims I make are quiet likely dishonest, please enlighten me? no bad feelings, just interested ::)
-
Should I be criticised for a few shall we say misdemeanors? Any body who knows anybody in the Internet business will be fully aware big sites such as Facebook and Vkontact along with many others in the early days used many underhand tactics to get a footing, including hacking many other sites ( Im not defending them). Five years ago, after already spending nearly five years in Eastern Europe on all sorts of adventures I decided my home was in Russia. I set about creating a Russian dating site, for me the internet was something I had never been involved with and I had no idea how I was going to promote my first site!
Like so many I did what ever I could to try to bring some traffic to the site, that included joining up to a whole load of forums and dating sites often under other names leaving links. Of course that was five years ago, times have moved on considerably now. Tactics I used to promote my site five years ago I know now are a total waste of time. You live and learn by your mistakes, even the greatest leaders in history.
For me it was not about making huge amounts of money, I was on a mission to live my Russian dream if that involved just making $100 a week and working part time in Russia so be it. No one here can understand my sheer determination to relocate to Mother Russia, for many it would be an impossible task.
That is all history now! As things have turned out I have developed the fastest growing site on the net for Eastern European dating, other than Cupid I have more women signing up from search results daily than any other sites, sometimes by the bus load. Of course I want to make some money from the business. But out of all vast majority of "Russian bride" related businesses on the net I am one of the few who actually lives and is involved in Russia along with probably more trips, travels and adventures than the vast majority on this forum, I speak Russian have many many Russian friends and have a huge wealth of knowledge on Russia.
Do I deserve to be criticised for a few spamming and web promotion tactics from five years ago??
Excuse any bad grammar :P
No problem or bad feelings. As you asked
-
Ok as they say in the UK " The proof of the pudding is in the eating" Im giving ALL and ANY guys from this forum free Gold membership in my site for one month, compare the sign ups and women for yourself:)Scammers? I think not:) Let the multitudes decide. just PM any one interested.
As for my adventures in Russia, I havn't all week to write that down ::)
-
Ok as they say in the UK " The proof of the pudding is in the eating" Im giving ALL and ANY guys from this forum free Gold membership in my site for one month, compare the sign ups and women for yourself:)Scammers? I think not:) Let the multitudes decide. just PM any one interested.
As for my adventures in Russia, I havn't all week to write that down ::)
Sounds like a good offer for any newbies looking on to take a test drive. I'm not interested personally as I am married. I'm not accusing you of anything. Those statements are however misleading for any of those same newbies looking on. I would wager there are 100's or 1000's of websites based on Russian women alone. Add to that all of EE and it might reach 100's of 1000's. Most of which are full of scammers along with sincere women. You might wish to think there are no scammers but unless you've tested them all personally, there is no way you can know that. Disingenious statement at the least.
If you have a good site and you are proud of it, good on ya, seriously. There have been quite a few expats in Russia, Ukraine and other places. Building websites and applying all kinds of trades. Obviously after 10 years it must be working out for you but, it is apparently more common than you think.
-
New Russian dating sites appear on the net every week, only to disappear the following month, it takes a long time many many hours of unpaid work, I worked 8 hours a day on the site and held down a 10 hour day job for two years for not a dime:)
As for scammers, who better to catch them. You know most are so stupid they use the same passwords:) the majority of scammers write the same sh** in their profile, most come from the same town:) usually using the same IP. I also have a system for any new women sending over 30 messages p/d are flagged in admin. Along with that I have two online monitors. I know a scammer as soon as they sign up. IF any get by the net I have report abuse, the difference here is they really do get deleted within the hour. And its not just the women scammers, plenty of guys come from the US trying to scam the women!
As for any newbies they are welcome for a test drive totally free, just PM when you sign up.
-
It is interesting. I have held off saying anything because everyone who comes on here for commercial purposes, I feel should get a break and be able to introduce themselves and their services.
Having said that, I read this guy's musings and as stated before in other threads, he has a very poor habit of not reading what he writes. Considering that his business really is being a wordsmith on an internet domain, that speaks very poorly for him.
To top it off, he is not either generous or magnanimous in how he describes his services. Every other phrase is: I did this. Or I did that. He makes himself sound like a one man operation.
Steveboy, I really do wish you well in your endeavor. I have no idea if the women you are bringing forward are the real deal. But if you come here to display your wares and tell us why you are different, then you really should take your writing skills and content to a higher level.
Good luck.
-
It is interesting. I have held off saying anything because everyone who comes on here for commercial purposes, I feel should get a break and be able to introduce themselves and their services.
Having said that, I read this guy's musings and as stated before in other threads, he has a very poor habit of not reading what he writes. Considering that his business really is being a wordsmith on an internet domain, that speaks very poorly for him.
To top it off, he is not either generous or magnanimous in how he describes his services. Every other phrase is: I did this. Or I did that. He makes himself sound like a one man operation.
Steveboy, I really do wish you well in your endeavor. I have no idea if the women you are bringing forward are the real deal. But if you come here to display your wares and tell us why you are different, then you really should take your writing skills and content to a higher level.
Good luck.
I am a one man band!!
-
You said : "plenty of guys come from the US trying to scam the women!"
Plenty of guys trying to scam women i can imagine, but from the US ? I imagine that you have checked IP.
What is the proportion between men and women scams ?
Geographic repartition ?
-
Most guys who come to scam women are from the usual African countries such as Nigeria. Though I recently blocked the IPs from many of these countries. A fair few women have sent these guys money, I recently had a good thread in a Russian women's forum, if I can find again I will post here. Very interesting.
Then you have the same type of guys from the US seems LA is a popular place for them to hang out for some strange reason. I wouldn't say hundreds, but a few every month. Maybe they have friends in Nigeria :D
-
This is worth a bump to the top again. For those reading--updated conclusion that applies to near enough ALL sites-- it is more scam than real.
Guys keep coming and asking about "ABC" and/or "XYZ" sites--unfortunately many still have the idea that "their" site is going to be the exception to the rule.It would help if all the now well known information of the general modus operandi was easier to find on the forums.
-
This is worth a bump to the top again. For those reading--updated conclusion that applies to near enough ALL sites-- it is more scam than real.
Guys keep coming and asking about "ABC" and/or "XYZ" sites--unfortunately many still have the idea that "their" site is going to be the exception to the rule.It would help if all the now well known information of the general modus operandi was easier to find on the forums.
Not sure why you felt the need to bump this thread after it's been dead and gone for quite some time ?? I sincerely hope and pray that your "XYZ' comments weren't directed at anyone in particular? or if so, may wanna contact them direct to discuss...
Either way -
In regards to THIS site (HRB/RLM) - I won't defend them - nor comment on them - in public, for they will chase you down to the ends of the earth and sue you for libel and slander - and win... We've seen that now ... So, for those screaming 'scammers' - beware. (not by me, just read the legal court docs posted before) ... You'll lose.
I'll admit that I have used their services, and what puts them ahead of 'the rest' of the others that some wish to crucify - is that "others" don't allow you into a girls home or office via live video .. YES they supply the cam/PC to the girl - NO she will not give you her info "for free" (if found out, she'll lose said PC/Laptop) - Do they get paid to talk to you? The FL office denies it - but they do make it back other ways (agency fees, dating fees, flowers/gifts, and the girls appear to get points or something as a reward to stay online with you) - Now, if you do their background check (USA) and pass, and request her info - you'll get it - and you're done with the site and agency and just move onto Skype and email direct (and get her OFF their site too if they/you/she is serious) - So from that standpoint, I don't see an issue really? - Where there IS an issue - is judging someones sincerity or intentions online .. No site, no agency, no FORUM MEMBER, no person knows this - Only you, the guy travelling there - can only determine that - if she's being real with you or not ... That, is a fact - and that is why writing endless letters is pure BS (on any site/agency) and is a total waste of your time, and theirs... As it's been said a million times already here, and on every other respectable forum - just get on a plane, and go... it's the only way to truly know... and learn.
I'd also add - that many on here love slamming sites, agencies, methods, and services - yet rarely suggest 'a better alternative' ?? I wonder why that is? ... You say guys think theirs is the bomb - yet you offer no alternatives?
Either way - I'd not use their site again - I do not endorse them - but they're not quite as bad as others... Call or visit their FL office (as done upstream in this thread) - and you'll see how it all works.... They just amass 100's of small agencies - feed the girls PC's and photoshoots - and the rest is up to you to find out if they're real or if you're being played or not - Of course, this comes at a cost $$ ...
I'd also start by looking in the mirror - If you can't land a decent chick wherever you currently live - You think some smokin' hot sveta truly wants you there too? I'll include myself in that self-analysis ... However, if you ARE sincere - and family oriented - not a f'n cheapskate deadbeat - have integrity, morals, and values, and a spine and leadership skills and a decent job and 'funny' - THEY WILL SEE THAT and you then rise to the top... If you're just going over for a sex tour or to ease your midlife crises - You're gonna end up a very lonely and sad man in the end.
My 2 pence ...
BB
-
Not sure why you felt the need to bump this thread after it's been dead and gone for quite some time ?? I sincerely hope and pray that your "XYZ' comments weren't directed at anyone in particular? or if so, may wanna contact them direct to discuss...
Definately not specific and did not even occur to me--100% on that.
My thoughts were/are to keep threads about well known sites prominent both in forums and search engines. The most effective way to help guys is to let them read of others experiences and conclusions and see the reality of how these sites operate.
-
I'd also add - that many on here love slamming sites, agencies, methods, and services - yet rarely suggest 'a better alternative' ?? I wonder why that is? ... You say guys think theirs is the bomb - yet you offer no alternatives?
This forum has a sticky thread at the top of the Starting out section that we send newbies to all the time if they want recommendations.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0
-
Definately not specific and did not even occur to me--100% on that.
My thoughts were/are to keep threads about well known sites prominent both in forums and search engines. The most effective way to help guys is to let them read of others experiences and conclusions and see the reality of how these sites operate.
Sounds fair - Appreciate you trying to help others.. I misread your post - Apologies
-
This forum has a sticky thread at the top of the Starting out section that we send newbies to all the time if they want recommendations.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0)
Hi Billy - Yeah, am familiar with all those sites - Some better than others.. Usually 'free' sites, net you poor results, as the ratios are 100:1 guys v gals ...
But that wasn't even my point really (though yours is well-taken) .. My point was/is - that everyone on forums, are so quick to slam XYZ (doesn't even have to be MOB stuff - could be cars or golf or sex) .. but yet they rarely offer up alternatives about what worked for them!? -- They seem to just be slagging off things without much advice, proof or reason -
In this case, I misread JayH intent ... happens from time to time - but we've ironed all that out - and life goes on! :) ))
BTW, I've not talked to you in like 5+ years! But last we did - I thought you were engaged and moving forward with things? How did all that pan out? did you all end up getting hitched? Sorry, I can't recall her name now...
Cheers-
BB
-
Usually 'free' sites, net you poor results, as the ratios are 100:1 guys v gals ...
Don't be afraid of a little competition! Actually it's not the competition that gets guys poor results, it's the fact girls write less to men at those sites but that's reality. Fantasy is at many of the paid sites where Boris, the employee of the month, writes the letters. I prefer trading love letters with a few real women than Boris.
BTW, I've not talked to you in like 5+ years! But last we did - I thought you were engaged and moving forward with things? How did all that pan out? did you all end up getting hitched? Sorry, I can't recall her name now...
Cheers-
BB
I was engaged to the lady, Natalia, from Uzbekistan. She was denied the k-1 visa on a medical condition. I applied for a waiver and the k-1 was then approved. She lost her nerves before the big move to America and landed in the hospital. She asked me to marry and live in Uzbekistan instead but that is not an option because I have a son from a previous marriage I wanted to be near. Time went by, I dated other women, and when she was ready to come to America, I was too far involved elsewhere. I'm currently married to a Ukrainian woman. I started some threads called "Life Changes" in the Experienced section documenting my dating experiences and eventually finding and marrying my wife.