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Author Topic: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)  (Read 305062 times)

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Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2020, 02:25:35 PM »
The Chinese don't suggest they lie yet the reason they give for the low numbers that were previously reported is because the old methods they've used to count were to blame. You can trust their new method to count infections and deaths if you want but I don't trust them. Apparently a lot of people died already and it was documented something else killed them but it's too late to go through their cremated ashes to do another autopsy.

I deal with Chinese people re designs, production, delivery and find them to be generally very efficient and organised...

The problem is the folk who run things like Communists do ...

Our stuff is taking a DAY longer than normal -  I don't know if we'll be delayed re any components that might come from effected areas ....

I posted about the spike and WHY it was occurring before you mentioned it - while you slept ... but thanks for the confirmation







Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2020, 08:07:03 PM »

3 days ago the South China Morning Post suspected 500 medical workers are infected and a possible 600 more are infected.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3050077/least-500-wuhan-medical-staff-infected-coronavirus

Today, for the first time ever, China puts out a statement that over 1700 of their medical workers are infected. That number is worse than the rumors. Gross negligence of the management putting medical workers lives in jeopardy by not giving them the protective gear they need.

http://www.businessinsider.com/healthcare-workers-getting-coronavirus-500-infected-2020-2
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Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #52 on: February 15, 2020, 12:22:07 AM »
Silly BillyB

You have this BAD habit of making assertions that you cannot know about - yet are also v.quick to tell others they shouldn't trust what they hear from untraceable sources ..

If this virus comes to the UK / US in serious numbers - do you think 'we' have enough 'hazsuits et al ' to cope for long ? Wasn't China asking for help with supplies?









Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #53 on: February 15, 2020, 09:18:24 AM »
You have this BAD habit of making assertions that you cannot know about - yet are also v.quick to tell others they shouldn't trust what they hear from untraceable sources ..


We're dealing with a Communist country, not yours or mine. The level of trust in ones government varies. Do you trust North Korea they have ZERO infections? When Chinese people say the government stated infection and death rate were low, they were right after China put out an official statement a couple of days ago. When people say lots of medical workers don't have enough protective gear and are getting infected, they were more than right after China put out an official statement yesterday. Where were they wrong? China is still probably low with their estimates of those infected and dead.


If this virus comes to the UK / US in serious numbers - do you think 'we' have enough 'hazsuits et al ' to cope for long ?


Our Western doctors would evaluate a patient and sound an alarm without getting silenced and this virus won't infect in large numbers. Our hospitals have protocols for dealing with new, unknown viruses and diseases and will take appropriate action to protect the most important people to defeating it. Or they can risk massive lawsuits. Unfortunately the families of the medical workers sacrificed in China aren't as lucky in making their hospitals and government accountable.


Wasn't China asking for help with supplies?


Of course they asked for help and Western nations have given help. America pledged up to 100 million dollars in aid but China has refused the help of medical and scientific experts. That has led to Trump criticizing China. China does want to beat the virus but they will not allow people in who will tell the truth about what they seen.

http://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/482096-us-pledges-100-million-to-help-fight-coronavirus

When China dealt with the bird and swine flus, they killed millions of animals. When an outbreak happens, the FIRST thing you do is find the source and eliminate the source which will help with reducing numbers of infections and preventing the outbreak from happening again. China State news put out rumors the source was from a meat market. Has the government gone in and identified an animal that carried it yet and eliminated it's stock? NO. There has not been a single animal that was diagnosed as a carrier of this virus.

A few years ago, experts didn't like the idea of China creating a laboratory to house the worlds most deadliest diseases in Wuhan. They didn't think China would be able to stop the escape of a deadly virus based off knowledge of their construction and handling practices of those viruses. Has China put out a statement confirming the new coronavirus was never housed in their facility? Here's a 2017 article about the Wuhan lab.

http://www.nature.com/news/inside-the-chinese-lab-poised-to-study-world-s-most-dangerous-pathogens-1.21487
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Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2020, 10:46:36 AM »
Silly BillyB,

You 'respond' by taking any point and making it a question - without dealing WITH the point ..

Try dealing with the points made ... not making your own obfuscation and diversions


Did the Chinese request help? - medical supplies ....YES..


If this virus comes to the UK / US in serious numbers - do you think 'we' have enough 'hazsuits et al ' to cope for long ?   Given the UK already has a shortage of face masks for use in Dental practices  - IF our news is  to be believed  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51493492  I think you know - really - than the risks of getting the infection are GREATER for medical staff in China - it would be the same anywhere else..



I have NO idea about the source of the virus .. Do you know the 'source' of Ebola or HIV?  Do you understand virus' mutate ?

You are BIG in conspiracy theories ..  if you think the Chinese govt labs have unwittingly infected it's people .. I suspect that - even in China - it'll get out ..

 

Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2020, 11:24:19 AM »
Do you know the 'source' of Ebola or HIV?  Do you understand virus' mutate ?


Patient one of the Ebola virus was bitten by a bat. HIV is in primates. Education put out to stop eating them or whatever touching them sexually. It's important to find the source. China has not disclosed the source. Mutations don't matter. Scientist can figure out how the flu virus will mutate the next season to create a vaccine before it happens. They know how the virus was before and can predict how it will be in the future. Unfortunately they have not figured out a way to beat the coronavirus.

  if you think the Chinese govt labs have unwittingly infected it's people .. I suspect that - even in China - it'll get out ..

Infectious diseases laboratories are specially built to treat everything leaving it. That includes air and sewer so to make sure nothing deadly gets out alive. The most likely case is a worker unknowingly got the virus and took it outside the lab. The way the Chinese government protect their medical workers against a deadly virus may give us a clue how they handle things elsewhere.
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Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #56 on: February 15, 2020, 02:14:24 PM »

Unless you grow your own food and live in the wilderness - that seems impossible ?


Not impossible. This virulence is not yet under control.  We should know more in about 2-3 weeks. 
Until then, one does not need to wear a hazmat suit nor avoid people, yet simple precautions seem prudent if travelling in Asia. 


Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #57 on: February 15, 2020, 02:42:53 PM »
Our Silly Billy's been a Googlin', and failing ...


Patient one of the Ebola virus was bitten by a bat.

INCORRECT

Scientists do not know where Ebola virus comes from. However, based on the nature of similar viruses, they believe the virus is animal-borne, with bats or nonhuman primates with bats or nonhuman primates (chimpanzees, apes, monkeys, etc.) being the most likely source.

Source? : 'Your' very own CDC


HIV is in primates.

CORRECT .. Again .. the CDC gives more info ..

So.. Only 50 percent ..


STILL with the wacko conspiracy theories ?

Infectious diseases laboratories are specially built to treat everything leaving it. That includes air and sewer so to make sure nothing deadly gets out alive. The most likely case is a worker unknowingly got the virus and took it outside the lab. The way the Chinese government protect their medical workers against a deadly virus may give us a clue how they handle things elsewhere.


You've been watching too many SciFi channel low budget movies ..

Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #58 on: February 15, 2020, 04:03:46 PM »
Scientists do not know where Ebola virus comes from. However, based on the nature of similar viruses, they believe the virus is animal-borne, with bats or nonhuman primates with bats or nonhuman primates (chimpanzees, apes, monkeys, etc.) being the most likely source.

Source? : 'Your' very own CDC


The CDC doesn't know where the virus came from but they know it's in certain animals and they can pinpoint the animal responsible for the outbreak. the 2014 outbreak came from bats as the first patient was bitten by one according to the CDC. When an outbreak happens, it's important to identify the source to prevent more infections from happening.

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/history/2014-2016-outbreak/index.html
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Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #59 on: February 16, 2020, 02:41:44 AM »
The CDC doesn't know where the virus came from but they know it's in certain animals and they can pinpoint the animal responsible for the outbreak. the 2014 outbreak came from bats as the first patient was bitten by one according to the CDC. When an outbreak happens, it's important to identify the source to prevent more infections from happening.

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/history/2014-2016-outbreak/index.html

Sighs..


The only 'batty' context is your failing to acknowledge you were wrong about Ebola...




Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #60 on: February 17, 2020, 10:03:40 PM »
China is getting very serious and now has 760 million people under quarantine.  This obviously will affect their economy.   Hopefully this draconian measure will stop the spread.   If not, the impact on the China economy will cascade to the global economy as supply chains are interrupted.   

China continues to report incomplete if not questionable data, meaning we have no scientific assessment of the trajectory of the endemic.   

Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #61 on: February 17, 2020, 10:22:01 PM »
760 million people under quarantine. 
   

That's one tenth the world's population under lockdown.

China continues to report incomplete if not questionable data, meaning we have no scientific assessment of the trajectory of the endemic.   


Your original John Hopkins link shows some Chinese provinces having around 500 recoveries and zero deaths. The death toll is under reported. We know how fast this virus can spread. 454 people are infected on a cruise ship after spending a short time together. That's over 10% of the passengers.

This obviously will affect their economy.   
   

It will affect our economy too. Movie industry expects to lose a billion dollars since nearly all of the 70,000 Chinese movie theaters are closed.

http://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/no-time-die-chinese-premiere-195232525.html

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Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #62 on: February 18, 2020, 12:46:53 AM »
I deal with Chinese people re designs, production, delivery and find them to be generally very efficient and organised...

The problem is the folk who run things like Communists do ...

Our stuff is taking a DAY longer than normal -  I don't know if we'll be delayed re any components that might come from effected areas ....



The order for making our PCBs and putting on the components has been slower than normal - as have responses for quotes .

However, the stuff is on it's way - via DHL - but  - interestingly - flying out of Hong Kong - not Shenzhen



Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #63 on: February 19, 2020, 10:17:49 PM »
Wang Zhonglin, the Wuhan’s new Communist party secretary, said that if a single new case was found after Wednesday, the district’s leaders would be held responsible.

Sounds like China is going to make sure the infection rate goes down. Reporting bad news is bad news for the reporter.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/feb/19/coronavirus-outbreak-updates-coronavirus-live-updates-hubei-deaths-china-wuhan-outbreak-japan-diamond-princess-china-business-death-toll-latest-news
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Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #64 on: February 19, 2020, 10:51:11 PM »
Sounds as if the Chinese and Russians have become rather desperate ..

From BillyB's  linked article :  ( PS - can you imagine - from a very 'leftie' UK journal - according to 'experts'..)

"Russia halted most air traffic to China, suspended all trains to China and North Korea, and temporarily stopped issuing work visas to Chinese citizens. Chinese students studying in Russia were told not to return until 1 March.

This month Russia’s prime minister, Mikhail Mishustin, said Russia might start deporting foreigners infected with the virus."


How very caring ...





Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #65 on: February 20, 2020, 07:04:50 AM »
For the second time in a week China has changed its protocol for determining new cases.  I have not read the details, yet it seems the government will now differentiate between “suspected” and “confirmed” cases.   Confirmed cases would require lab tests, for which China's capacity and accuracy are constrained.

So again, we are unsure of the the trajectory of the endemic, i. e., whether it is coming under control. 

Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #66 on: February 20, 2020, 07:35:47 PM »
"Russia halted most air traffic to China, suspended all trains to China and North Korea,


North Korea reports no infections yet Russia doesn't trust them. If there is one country this virus can get out of control, it's North Korea. North Korea probably depends on China for most of their medical supplies but China rather use what's available for their own people first.
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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #67 on: February 21, 2020, 12:45:37 PM »
Now cases of new infections are coming from countries like Iran and United Arab Emirates...Even recent arrivals to Ukraine from China had even cause a small violent protest in the streets of Kyiv.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/hysteria-coronavirus-sparks-violent-protests-ukraine/story?id=69124337
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #68 on: February 21, 2020, 07:29:43 PM »
More young medical professionals die. China's prisoners and prison guards infected. It's getting ugly.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/coronavirus-kills-young-wuhan-doctor-as-hundreds-infected-in-chinas-prisons/ar-BB10ebuj?ocid=spartanntp

In case of nuclear or natural disasters, China's leaders have a contingency plan to leave the country. US intelligence has picked up signals that there is talk of that could happen. China has finally allowed medical experts from WHO and America to help but they have been delayed and when they are allowed to enter China, they will not be allowed anywhere near Wuhan.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/with-information-from-china-scarce-us-spies-enlisted-to-track-coronavirus-173612656.html
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Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #69 on: February 21, 2020, 10:22:53 PM »

Some believe this event can turn into a pandemic and 2/3rds of the world's population can get infected. Some people are carrying the virus for an extended period of time and not show any symptoms of illness as evident on the cruise ship. Without symptoms, they would not be quarantined past a certain amount of  days or at all and walk freely anywhere they want just as we do and while mingling with others, infect them.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/coronavirus-outbreak-edges-closer-to-pandemic/ar-BB10fJLZ?ocid=spartanntp

If you're into conspiracy theories, the doctor in the video in the link below has 3 Harvard degrees and many accomplishments and claims China stole a virus from a Canadian lab and took it to their lab in Wuhan. He doesn't believe China let the virus out intentionally though. He said bio warfare viruses are genetically modified to be stronger, live longer, infect easier, and harder to stop. Has China claimed they found the animal or group of animals that were carriers of this new coronavirus yet? If not, the guy may be right.

http://www.transcend.org/tms/2020/02/francis-boyle-wuhan-coronavirus-is-an-offensive-biological-warfare-weapon/
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Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #70 on: February 22, 2020, 01:33:30 AM »
Some of our members ARE into 'conspiracy theories'  ..

A question for them ...

Why 'manufacture' a virus with a low kill rate and no vaccine ?

How would you expect the Chinese to trace an animal source when other earlier viral epidemics haven't been traced back to 'ground zero' ?

Not many folks know that HIV may have been around nearly 200 years ..



Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #71 on: February 22, 2020, 07:55:19 PM »
Why 'manufacture' a virus with a low kill rate and no vaccine ?


Who told you the new coronavirus has a low kill rate? China?

Even if a biological weapons have a low kill rate, it's still an effective weapon. You do not understand warfare. Killing isn't the only way to take a soldier off the battlefield. Google "toe popper". It's a cheap land mine that isn't designed to kill but destroy a foot. When a soldier has his foot damaged, it takes at least two other soldiers to carry him back to camp which means at least three soldiers are out of the fight. If soldiers are getting the flu, they are in no shape to fight and will infect other soldiers to make them in no shape to fight.

Why no vaccine? If it's easy to create a vaccine, it's easy for the enemy to create a vaccine to defeat the biological weapon. Genetically modified biological weapons are designed not to be easily defeated.

How would you expect the Chinese to trace an animal source when other earlier viral epidemics haven't been traced back to 'ground zero' ?


Yes, animal meat was blamed. China says the source came from an illegal meat market yet they haven't identified the meat. Go figure. Stupid people believe them. China shut down the meat market. They can take all meat and check for the virus at the lab next door.

Not many folks know that HIV may have been around nearly 200 years ..


May? HIV has or hasn't been around for nearly 200 years. Saying "may" sounds like you and your source don't know the truth.
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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #72 on: February 22, 2020, 10:57:02 PM »
Who told you the new coronavirus has a low kill rate? China?

How many people have died from the virus outside China - in comparison to those infected ? 

WHO data from 22nd Feb

Outside of China
1402 confirmed (202 new)
 28 countries (2 new)
 11 deaths (3 new)



So, are WHO 'making it up' ..?


Ri-ight, so now BillyB has demonstrated yet another of his contentions has been busted - rather than simply admitting his howler .. he compounds his stupidity





Even if a biological weapons have a low kill rate, it's still an effective weapon.

Only if you have a defence ( vaccine) or some way to ensure your own side don't get infected ...


You do not understand warfare.

You've already proven YOU do not understand biology, so you try to deflect with more bollox ? !


Killing isn't the only way to take a soldier off the battlefield. Google "toe popper". It's a cheap land mine that isn't designed to kill but destroy a foot. When a soldier has his foot damaged, it takes at least two other soldiers to carry him back to camp which means at least three soldiers are out of the fight. If soldiers are getting the flu, they are in no shape to fight and will infect other soldiers to make them in no shape to fight.


Nothing to do with COVID-19 - pure obfuscation ..


Now, Silly BillyB posts stupid about vaccines....bearing in mind the mutation capabilities of this type of virus ...hence it NOT being likely to be the type used as a bio weapon...

 



Why no vaccine? If it's easy to create a vaccine, it's easy for the enemy to create a vaccine to defeat the biological weapon. Genetically modified biological weapons are designed not to be easily defeated.

Yes, animal meat was blamed. China says the source came from an illegal meat market yet they haven't identified the meat. Go figure. Stupid people believe them. China shut down the meat market. They can take all meat and check for the virus at the lab next door.

May? HIV has or hasn't been around for nearly 200 years. Saying "may" sounds like you and your source don't know the truth.

Yes, may .. because no-one can be certain - as records / capabilities of medicine then did not allow fr accurate records ..

You see, BillyB, nothing in this field of biology is 'black and white' ..

You KEEP on proving what you're learning is from Google, rather than having studied biology to an advanced level ..



MAY BE China has inadvertently released this virus upon the population from a bio-weapon facility and isn't being truthful ... but we'd be hearing such a suggestion from Chinese dissidents and ex-pats, right ?







« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 01:38:53 AM by msmob »

Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #73 on: February 22, 2020, 11:26:46 PM »
How many people have died from the virus outside China - in comparison to those infected ? 
WHO date from 22nd Feb

Outside of China
1402 confirmed (202 new)
 28 countries (2 new)
 11 deaths (3 new)

So, are WHO 'making it up' ..?

John Hopkins has the data reported from each country and 17 people outside of China has died. 187 people outside of China have recovered. 1 out of every 11 people die or just over 9% of the people will die and these first cases have the best doctors and treatments available. If 70,000 people were infected, the best medical professionals and facilities would not be available to all infected. I do not count the infected cases into the fatality rate because it is unknown what side of the fence the infected will fall on at the end of their battle with the virus.

9% death rate is a lot worse than the common flu which has a .1% death rate. 1 out of 11 dying is a lot worse than 1 out of a 1000 dying. Do you understand the math and the reason WHO is now claiming this can turn into a pandemic? 

Now some Chinese provinces have over a 700 recovery rate with only 1 person dying while the Hubei province which includes the city of Wuhan has 6.5 people recovering for every person dying. 700 to 1 recovery to death ratio vs 6.5 to 1 recovery to death ratio means Chinese people in some provinces have super immunity systems compared to Chinese in other provinces or China is lying in some, most or all of their provinces reporting.

http://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Only if you have a defence ( vaccine) or some way to ensure your own side don't get infected


Biological weapons get invented before any cure does. Does that not make sense to you? Nations who are into making biological weapons don't expect them to escape onto their own people so any time spent on making a cure comes later.


You've already proven YOU do not understand biology,

You see, BillyB, nothing in this field of biology is 'black and white' ..

You KEEP on proving what you're learning is from Google, rather than having studied biology to an advanced level ..


What biology expert in this world that you rely on that has got this coronavirus all figured out? Yourself? Because you are a carrier of a virus which makes you the expert on viruses?
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #74 on: February 23, 2020, 01:52:36 AM »
John Hopkins has the data reported from each country and 17 people outside of China has died. 187 people outside of China have recovered.

WHO 'data' - I put the parenthesis as the data is only as reliable as the source .. However, I see little reason to doubt the figures, overall

OUTSIDE CHINA:

Deaths v infected 11 / 1402  less than 1 percent


CHINA

2348 / 77794  3 percent


These figures are based over a long time and become more realistic with every day - in percentile terms )




As we can see below, Billy B needs to go back to school re his arithmetic..





 1 out of every 11 people die or just over 9% of the people will die and these first cases have the best doctors and treatments available. If 70,000 people were infected, the best medical professionals and facilities would not be available to all infected. I do not count the infected cases into the fatality rate because it is unknown what side of the fence the infected will fall on at the end of their battle with the virus.

9% death rate is a lot worse than the common flu which has a .1% death rate. 1 out of 11 dying is a lot worse than 1 out of a 1000 dying. Do you understand the math and the reason WHO is now claiming this can turn into a pandemic? 

Now some Chinese provinces have over a 700 recovery rate with only 1 person dying while the Hubei province which includes the city of Wuhan has 6.5 people recovering for every person dying. 700 to 1 recovery to death ratio vs 6.5 to 1 recovery to death ratio means Chinese people in some provinces have super immunity systems compared to Chinese in other provinces or China is lying in some, most or all of their provinces reporting.

http://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Biological weapons get invented before any cure does. Does that not make sense to you? Nations who are into making biological weapons don't expect them to escape onto their own people so any time spent on making a cure comes later.


What biology expert in this world that you rely on that has got this coronavirus all figured out? Yourself? Because you are a carrier of a virus which makes you the expert on viruses?

Methinks you may be getting a little too upset to reason, anymore ..

MANY of us carry virus and infect people knowingly or unknowingly .. the subject here is COVID-19 and your wacko theories





 

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