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Author Topic: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)  (Read 304747 times)

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Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #425 on: April 03, 2020, 09:52:04 PM »
You complain when you didn't get the truth but if Trump gave the truth adding to deaths and suffering, you'd complain again. Trump can't win.

Can you show me some European articles where you got the truth early February claiming hundreds of thousands of people in Europe will die? You didn't get the truth and that is why Europeans didn't panic. But leaders over there don't get blamed like Trump because you like their politics.

Challenge accepted:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/924664


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/11/coronavirus-expert-warns-infection-could-reach-60-of-worlds-population[/url]



*I* don't like BoJo's 'politics' on Brexit, nor do I think the herd mentality approach was wise and 'we've' certainly NOT been test, test, testing like the WHO had recommended, so the UK  had no idea of the extent of the issue and has clearly not ordered enough PPE kit / tests for NHS staff

Unlike the US, we didn't have leaders making STUPID pronouncements on twitter / speeches as to how this virus would be eradicated ..




Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #426 on: April 03, 2020, 10:32:10 PM »
Challenge accepted:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/924664


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/11/coronavirus-expert-warns-infection-could-reach-60-of-worlds-population[/url]


You failed the challenge. None of the articles say hundreds of thousands of UK citizens will die. One article said just over 1000 Chinese died. That's nothing for a country of 1.4 billion. There was once a UK government document leaked that said 500,000 UK citizens could die but that was leaked and not announced by your government because they don't want to create panic.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #427 on: April 03, 2020, 10:54:23 PM »
You failed the challenge. None of the articles say hundreds of thousands of UK citizens will die. One article said just over 1000 Chinese died. That's nothing for a country of 1.4 billion. There was once a UK government document leaked that said 500,000 UK citizens could die but that was leaked and not announced by your government because they don't want to create panic.

Silly BillyB

IF I had used the 'leaked document' you'd have said I 'failed' because THAT was LATE February..

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-news-latest-deaths-uk-infection-flu-a9360271.html

IF said document had cased 'panic' .. ( on it' being leaked) why are so many people in the UK still more frustrated by weather being fine this weekend ..as  they can't go out ..despite all they know ( now ) about this virus ..?






 ..


Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #428 on: April 04, 2020, 04:34:34 AM »

D.J. Trump, February 26 2020...............

Re-reading the transcript is quite depressing when one thinks what could have been done in all this time.  The president and NSC were all well aware.


Why do you continue to inject your political partisanship?   

Trump's message was hope, not fear.  It was echoed by mainstream media.  Why don't you also criticize the concurrent remarks from New York's mayor and governor, who had the authority to issue and enforce a"stay at home" order earlier than they did.   

You have complimented Dr. Fauci. Why not mention his January 21 interview that coronavirus is not a major threat, nothing for US citizens to be worried about now. 

This crisis is still unfolding.  Time for all us to work together and do our part. 

The news from Italy is suggesting the apex of new cases has passed.  Splendid!   

Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #429 on: April 04, 2020, 04:36:57 AM »
Why are YOU so forgiving of his incompetence, Gator ?

Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #430 on: April 04, 2020, 04:44:21 AM »
Why are YOU so forgiving of his incompetence, Gator ?

Rhetorical question from a political partisan, less interested in what we can do together
 
« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 04:45:56 AM by Gator »

Offline BC

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #431 on: April 04, 2020, 06:34:02 AM »
Why do you continue to inject your political partisanship?   

Should I subscribe to ad ignorantiam logical fallacies instead of fact?

Quote
Trump's message was hope, not fear.  It was echoed by mainstream media.  Why don't you also criticize the concurrent remarks from New York's mayor and governor, who had the authority to issue and enforce a"stay at home" order earlier than they did.   

In order to express hope to overcome something, one has to define the hurdle.  Trump did not.  All states have one president who should lead using facts and not unfounded hope or arrogant gamble.  Are we not the United States?

Quote
You have complimented Dr. Fauci. Why not mention his January 21 interview that coronavirus is not a major threat, nothing for US citizens to be worried about now


Science learns and adapts, politics does not learn nor adapt well.  I can imagine Dr Fauci had to deliberate hard to go against the political grain of his boss.  By sticking to the facts he gained the respect that bridges politics.

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This crisis is still unfolding.  Time for all us to work together and do our part.


Indeed, denial is over. We are having to do so now, but out of necessity and not vision.

The 'crisis' is now in its third iteration, the East, Europe and now the Americas.  Most all facts have been well known for some time now; what works, what not and what might. We're having to settle, unfortunately, for the latter

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The news from Italy is suggesting the apex of new cases has passed.  Splendid!

Yes, we've started the second quarter, but still far from halftime.  The 'curve' is now flat but we don't yet know for how long.  I heard Dr Birx the other day discussing models and kinda leaning on the Italian model as one that could be applicable for the US.  I hope it is at this point, but believe such may be overly optimistic as containment measures were very different.  It wasn't that long ago that here at RWD the number of infections, deaths and doctors having to split ventilators, apply triage protocols in Italy was somehow abhorrent and held up as a critique of 'socialized' systems.  Now we are beginning to feel and do the exact same things and view the Italian experience as a best-case scenario for the US.

All this is not politics Gator, it based on fact.  If I got anything wrong factually, please do let me know.

Offline ML

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #432 on: April 04, 2020, 06:37:04 AM »
Wife tells of friend in Ukraine whose sister works as MD in Belarus.

They have deaths from Corona . . . but are ordered to enter the cause of death as something else
A beautiful woman is pleasant to look at, but it is easier to live with a pleasant acting one.

Offline BC

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #433 on: April 04, 2020, 06:44:44 AM »
ML,

Heart failure?  At the end that's what kills us all..  it simply stops beating.

Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #434 on: April 04, 2020, 08:40:21 AM »
Science learns and adapts, politics does not learn nor adapt well.  I can imagine Dr Fauci had to deliberate hard to go against the political grain of his boss.  By sticking to the facts he gained the respect that bridges politics.
 

Early in the crisis, I showed Dr. Fauci  saying travel restrictions have little impact against the virus. He, an expert, agreed with WHO. Now we have nearly every nation in the world engaging in travel restrictions. Trump, who was massively occupied fighting off impeachment, had the sense to enact travel restrictions in January. Nobody, not even Dr. Fauci, seen something like this virus in their lifetime so even they didn't know the proper action to take.

China deceived. Most leaders of the World did nothing. WHO gave inaccurate info pertaining to the virus when educating nations and gave bad advice. The Democrats did nothing back then. California, Washington, NY, New Jersey, and Louisiana are the hardest hit States and they all have Democratic governors. All those people did much worse than Trump but you and a few others here criticize Trump harder. As a matter of fact, you don't criticize those to the left of Trump at all. Italy failed you. Your economy and whole way of life has changed because China failed you. Can you at least say one thing they did wrong without mentioning Trump? Or are you still trying to keep politics out of this?


why are so many people in the UK still more frustrated by weather being fine this weekend ..as  they can't go out ..despite all they know ( now ) about this virus ..?


You're like BC when you imply Europeans don't panic. Back in early March when UK had 116 cases and one death, you guys were clearing off the food market shelves. That's what the leaked document of 500,000 dead UK citizens encouraged. Of course your government wasn't painting such a dim picture because they didn't want you to panic.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51764225


Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #435 on: April 04, 2020, 09:13:02 AM »
BillyB,

You seem so butt-hurt by your 'leader's' volte face that you need to try to suggest 'panic', elsewhere.

Apart from some herd selfishness re toilet rolls, I am wishing some UK citizens 'got' that this is serious enough TO panic...and stay at home...

I am staying in a beautiful village...the house has a private garden and all is calm...no 'panic' is detected here......


I am not at the frontline, protecting only an elderly Ma ..

We are not experiencing the hardship of families with health workers and will not suffer from lack of funds.

As long as friends and family members remain remain healthy....No 'panic'..

I am VERY grateful to those who are risking their lives and cannot imagine their stress.







Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #436 on: April 04, 2020, 09:28:03 AM »
You seem so butt-hurt by your 'leader's' volte face that you need to try to suggest 'panic', elsewhere.


There you go again talking only about Trump when leaders all around you done a worse job. You probably feel everybody to the left of Trump in Europe and in America had done a better job on handling the virus but you can't explain how.


I am staying in a beautiful village...the house has a private garden and all is calm...

We are not experiencing the hardship of families with health workers and will not suffer from lack of funds.


It's a good thing being separated from your wife for the last 2+ months isn't creating a hardship for you. Is that what you want us to believe? Hope it isn't true.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #437 on: April 04, 2020, 10:03:25 AM »
BillyB defends the indefensible..

There you go again talking only about Trump when leaders all around you done a worse job. You probably feel everybody to the left of Trump in Europe and in America had done a better job on handling the virus but you can't explain how.

I can explain ... the videos of 'Trampu' before and now EXPLAIN ... 

More butt-hurt BillyB, getting all bent 'outta shape' and 'personal'

It's a good thing being separated from your wife for the last 2+ months isn't creating a hardship for you. Is that what you want us to believe? Hope it isn't true.

It's already been 2 months plus..  but then 'attentiveness' isn't your strong point .. but thank you for your 'concern' ..SC is watching a movie in Russian, while I watch in English ...  too many ad breaks on RU TV ..

Poka


Offline GQBlues

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #438 on: April 04, 2020, 11:20:48 AM »
Was the Army really behind?

D.J. Trump, February 26 2020

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-conference/

Re-reading the transcript is quite depressing when one thinks what could have been done in all this time.  The president and NSC were all well aware.

First lockdowns in Italy 21 Feb.  All schools closed 4 March and the national lockdown began 9 March.

You keep bringing up Trump 'doing something' with incoming foreigners on flights as if this one act saved America...  Do you really feel that way today?

Don't you ever get tired of fostering numbnuts' narratives, BC? Italy's president still hosted Chinese delegates as though everything is honky dory as Italians had been dying of the disease that even prompted them to ban flights from China a week earlier.

How'bout Andrew Cuomo declaring the threat of COVID-19 is very low in New York and there's no need for anguish on March 2nd?

Your adopted country is ready to embrace China despite its current dire situation BECAUSE of China simply because it believes China is their future's cash register. In a global economic sense, that's akin to pimping its citizens to the Chinese, no?

France is willing to sign up with Jack Ma's Huawei's 5G in return to getting 1 billion face masks.

Trump may not be perfect, but BOY!, as an American, I feel so much better having him here than the folks that lead your adopted home.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 11:22:50 AM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline BC

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #439 on: April 04, 2020, 12:28:55 PM »
Don't you ever get tired of fostering numbnuts' narratives, BC?

No, I get tired of folks that attempt to support their version of the truth with substantiation that cannot be proven, so I reply with factual information.

Believe I stated such albeit using Latin.  BillyB's favourite discourse technique when backed in a corner, described in a clear and understandable way below:


 

Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #440 on: April 04, 2020, 02:52:22 PM »
Should I subscribe to ad ignorantiam logical fallacies instead of fact?

1.  You are selective with the facts you choose to present.  For 12 years I have watched you do the same, backing 100% of everything Obama did and 0% of what Trump has done. 

2.  Dwelling on politics degrades this thread, which I had hoped would center around medical science, public health developments, and national policies.  If you want to dwell on Trump's shortcomings (and he has many to choose from), I suggest the Trump Doctrine thread or maybe  new threads such as "How COVID-19 will Affect the 2020 Election," or something about which I know little,  "Will the Pandemic Change Global Affairs."   

3.  There will be time to count the bodies and judge the role and response of the US government, the individual states,  the local communities, the medical community, and the public.  It will be more factual and comprehensive than your preliminary snipes, that frankly seem petty given the severity of the crises.  Maybe a critical analysis will show that the NYC metro area should have implemented a Wuhan lockdown.  Maybe it will show that ventilators prolonged the inevitable more than saving lives.  Maybe a significant percentage of those who died were nearing the end.   

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Are we not the United States?

We are a Federalism.  While Democrats may want a huge, unitary state that decides everything, we are not there .......yet. 
 

Quote
I can imagine Dr Fauci had to deliberate hard to go against the political grain of his boss.  By sticking to the facts he gained the respect that bridges politics.
 

You don't know exactly what was happening behind the scenes, maybe we should await an after-action report.  Schiff is now writing a bill for such. 

You like Dr. Fauci because he elaborated upon a policy or two that differed from what you thought Trump said.  Dr. Fauci is a valuable member of the task force, yet I hope you are not suggesting he should direct everything the nation does to fight COVID-1.   
 

Quote
All this is not politics Gator, it based on fact.  If I got anything wrong factually, please do let me know.

I don't argue with your facts such as charts, or clearly stated policies of nations around the globe.  They are helpful. 

Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #441 on: April 04, 2020, 03:18:27 PM »

I heard Dr Birx the other day discussing models and kinda leaning on the Italian model as one that could be applicable for the US. 


Dr. Birx presented her charts a couple days ago.  One chart projected 91,000 cumulative deaths by June-July, within a range of 40,000 - 170,000.  I posted the charts in Reply 399 on April 2. 

Her charts were developed by IHME (Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation) from the Univ. of Washington.  There is a building political controversy about the IHME being funded by the Gates Foundation and Birx sitting on the board of  another Gates funded organization.   

I don't know the data used in the IHME models.  One report says it is New York data.  I would assume that the modelers used representative data from all sources.

 
Quote
I hope it is at this point, but believe such may be overly optimistic as containment measures were very different.  It wasn't that long ago that here at RWD the number of infections, deaths and doctors having to split ventilators, apply triage protocols in Italy was somehow abhorrent and held up as a critique of 'socialized' systems.  Now we are beginning to feel and do the exact same things and view the Italian experience as a best-case scenario for the US.


I can't and won't quibble with this.  It is factual and useful, and does not reek with partisanship.   

Offline BC

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #442 on: April 04, 2020, 06:40:30 PM »
1.  You are selective with the facts you choose to present.  For 12 years I have watched you do the same, backing 100% of everything Obama did and 0% of what Trump has done. 

I do recall criticizing Obama i.e. on his handling of Guantanamo and some other intel related matters. I have also agreed with what Trump did, albeit few and far between, likely minor point as they don't really pop out of memory.  I do recall giving him a fair shake in the beginning.

Quote
2.  Dwelling on politics degrades this thread, which I had hoped would center around medical science, public health developments, and national policies.  If you want to dwell on Trump's shortcomings (and he has many to choose from), I suggest the Trump Doctrine thread or maybe  new threads such as "How COVID-19 will Affect the 2020 Election," or something about which I know little,  "Will the Pandemic Change Global Affairs."   

For the vast majority of my posts in this thread with political content, I think you will find following the quotes that it was often someone else that brought up Trump first.  I do tend to object and respond to ad ignorantiam and other discourse fallacies such as 'repeat it till they believe it'.

Quote
3.  There will be time to count the bodies and judge the role and response of the US government, the individual states,  the local communities, the medical community, and the public.  It will be more factual and comprehensive than your preliminary snipes, that frankly seem petty given the severity of the crises.  Maybe a critical analysis will show that the NYC metro area should have implemented a Wuhan lockdown.  Maybe it will show that ventilators prolonged the inevitable more than saving lives.  Maybe a significant percentage of those who died were nearing the end.
   

Indeed there will.  Doctors don't usually intubate patients that are not likely to survive in the first place, even in normal times. It is not an 'always do before die' item on the checklist.

Quote
We are a Federalism.  While Democrats may want a huge, unitary state that decides everything, we are not there .......yet. 

Yes, but when it comes down to stay at home orders at the state level, all Republican eyes are on Trump to set the tone.
 
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You don't know exactly what was happening behind the scenes, maybe we should await an after-action report.  Schiff is now writing a bill for such. 

Yes, it will all come out in the end. The great washing machine of life and politics.

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You like Dr. Fauci because he elaborated upon a policy or two that differed from what you thought Trump said.  Dr. Fauci is a valuable member of the task force, yet I hope you are not suggesting he should direct everything the nation does to fight COVID-1.   

Alone, no.  But when delegations are made, the power and responsibility should also be provided.

Quote
I don't argue with your facts such as charts, or clearly stated policies of nations around the globe.  They are helpful.

I do look at the data before posting but it does not necessarily mean I try to find the data that fits my hypothesis.  The truth normally carries itself and it is very difficult to respond with ease on the basis of doubtful data.  That's not to say I can't err.  If someone counters with better vetted facts I'm willing to learn and change.

Offline BC

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #443 on: April 04, 2020, 06:50:00 PM »

I don't know the data used in the IHME models.  One report says it is New York data.  I would assume that the modelers used representative data from all sources.


Indeed, I misspoke.  I should have used the term 'Italian data' instead of 'model'.  It just startled me that she mentions Italy a lot in a comparative way.  Listening to her I think 'hmm... what's missing there'.  A sense that a bit of candour is lacking, or use of phrases that just don't say it all.

Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #444 on: April 04, 2020, 08:25:58 PM »
  The truth normally carries itself and it is very difficult to respond with ease on the basis of doubtful data.


Do you trust Chinese data? Remember you put up a chart that shows stocks going up approximately the same rate during Obama's years compared to Trump's years? I told you the chart was manipulated. Humans create these charts and data and can influence them. Trying to be truthful without causing panic is what you're seeing with charts and data right now.

Here's an anti Trump NY Times article put out today. It says there's tension between Trump and his medical experts Dr. Fauci and Dr. Brix. Most people don't watch the daily briefings to understand that isn't true so they believe that crap. NY Times regularly uses charts and data to make Trump look bad. There's charts and data that makes Trump look good but they won't make the news.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/tensions-persist-between-trump-medical-141306900.html
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #445 on: April 05, 2020, 05:13:50 AM »
I do recall criticizing Obama...

My memory universe apparently has some black holes. 

Regarding the other political details of your response, let me say "sequestering at home" is affecting my mood. 


Quote
Yes, but when it comes down to stay at home orders at the state level, all Republican eyes are on Trump to set the tone.

It seems Republicans more than Democrats are trying to balance saving lives with saving the economy.  Mutually exclusive goals?  That tradeoff will be debated, with clear evidence forthcoming of relative changes among the world's nations.    To save the nation Lincoln killed a huge number of young men.   
 

Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #446 on: April 05, 2020, 05:26:04 AM »
Indeed, I misspoke.  I should have used the term 'Italian data' instead of 'model'.  It just startled me that she mentions Italy a lot in a comparative way.  Listening to her I think 'hmm... what's missing there'.  A sense that a bit of candour is lacking, or use of phrases that just don't say it all.

She chooses Italy because the NYC mayor and the NYS governor have an Italian heritage.    :D

If not that reason, she chooses Italy because 1) the epidemic spread started earlier there, and 2) the US mitigation and response follows more what Italy did vs. other early nations such as S Korea.   

Offline Maxx2

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #447 on: April 05, 2020, 06:12:39 AM »




If Sweden, which has not locked down its economy and society, emerges with a death toll from COVID-19 that is somewhere in the middle of the pack of European countries, there is going to be a lot of recrimination, particularly against those who have tried to silence any discussion about the true extent of the threat that COVID-19 actually poses

Cheers, say the Swedes



On 3 April 2020 08:36


In a word: Sweden. What happens if they pull this off? What happens if it turns out that we could have coped with COVID-19 without collapsing entire sectors of the economy putting millions on the dole, and imposing some of the most draconian restrictions on civil liberties in living memory?
Sweden has not closed the bars. Shopping malls are open. Schools and companies are open too. There are some restrictions such as on gatherings of over 500 people. But, in comparison with most European countries, life in Sweden is relatively normal.
Right now, Sweden's
death rate from coronavirus is 33 per million of the population. In France it is 83. In Italy it is 230. In Britain it is 43. In the Netherlands it is 78.
In the United States the number of deaths per million of the population is 18, but many argue that the outbreak in America took off later, and European levels of fatality from the virus are on their way. We shall see.
But, in any case, which levels of European fatality? The figures are all over the place. Partly this must be due to different ways in which the death toll is being counted.
In some countries, COVID-19 is being listed as the cause of death merely if it appears somewhere on the death certificate. In other words, you may have been days away from dying from terminal lung cancer, but if you had contracted COVID-19 in the meantime, your death will be listed in the overall COVID-19 fatality numbers. In other countries, it has to have been the single most obvious cause of death to make it into the same statistics.
Sweden appears to be in the latter category, which may be making their numbers look a little lower than in countries which list things differently. But probably not enough to radically change the comparisons.
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That will all be looked at closely when all this is over.
But if, when all such necessary adjustments have been made, Sweden emerges with a death toll from COVID-19 that is somewhere in the middle of the pack of European countries, there is going to be a lot of recrimination, particularly against those who have tried to silence any discussion about the extent of the threat that COVID-19 actually poses.
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What is interesting though, is that precisely because it is Sweden, the usual suspects in our politics who benefit from disillusionment with the establishment may find it hard to profit from this. The Swedish government is led by Stefan Loeven, a Social Democrat.
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Sweden is practically a role model for mainstream, left of centre politics. If you're a European populist, it's going to be more than a little incongruous to start singing the praises of Sweden, of all countries.
Similarly in America. Donald Trump has, albeit reluctantly, broadly followed the lockdown policies we see across most of Europe. Unless he very quickly does a 180 degree turn (and don't rule that out) how can he profit from his usual disdain for the way things are done by the establishment?
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That said, if this particular "Swedish model" wins the day, someone is going to get it in the neck. The question is, who?
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« Last Edit: April 05, 2020, 06:14:22 AM by Maxx2 »

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #448 on: April 05, 2020, 07:29:08 AM »

If Sweden, which has not locked down its economy and society, emerges with a death toll from COVID-19 that is somewhere in the middle of the pack of European countries, there is going to be a lot of recrimination, particularly against those who have tried to silence any discussion about the true extent of the threat that COVID-19 actually poses


When comparing various national lockdown policies, more than differences indeath toll should be considered.  Differences in the rate and extent of economic recovery will be very important.

Supposedly with the Spanish flu, those cities with more extensive lockdown fared better immediately  in death rate and later in economic recovery.   I hear scientists mention this, yet I have not seen any analysis of data.   Keep in mind the lockdown in 1918 is  not comparable to 2020 lockdowns (e. g., most cities kept their schools and theaters open for purpose of educating the public about developments).   


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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #449 on: April 05, 2020, 07:42:03 AM »
Phun Phact
After China disclosed the outbreak of coronavirus to international health officials on New Year’s Eve, at least 430,000 people have arrived in the US  on direct flights from China, including 40,000 people in the two months after Trump’s travel ban
and all the travel for Chinese New Year, came before the ban, oopsie...
and not to mention Corona coming in from European hot-spots
before and after the ban...

trump’s actions were more PR related, to “protect him”
and not his base

who’da thought that denial was not likely to be a successful strategy for survival
it worked with Russiagate, Ukraingate, but looks like it’s gonna fail this time
BIGLY!!!
but at least, this will be the end, there won’t be any more “Trumpgates” after this one

a couple of years from now,
those of you here still alive, had better get used to seeing...
children playing with pieces of dead bodies that lay rotting in the streets

welcome to TrumpLand

 

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