Reactions from other people in your life

[TigerPaws]

I don't know, Tigerpaws, blabbing your business before you bring your lady home is related to how your friends will react once she is here.  I only shared with a very few people that I had met Lena after my first trip as I kind of had to explain why I was going back again.  Once they saw her photos, they understood without much explanation. 8)KenC

KenC,

I think you misunderstand I do not suggest a man broadcast or discuss his decision to seek a lady overseas, in fact I highly suggest he keep it to himself for as long as possible.

TigerPaws

[Wayne B]

WayneB
I do not understand your point of concern. I am here *not* talking about WM sharing FSUW experiences on this internet forum - I am talking about WM telling everybody they know back home about their FSUW pursuits. Yes, not exactly what the social scientist was looking for but clearly something that needed to be interjected into this thread.

  .WmGo, I only told those that would take care of my home, mail, dog etc: Mother, brother, next door nieghbor....so that they could take care of things while I was gone..... where I was going and for how long....was no one else's business.......that was then....now we are here...sharing some of what we went through during that time...

[I/O]

Hmmmmmmmm interesting question although the thread might veer well off course quite quickly.

I'm a tell 'em nothing, take 'em nowhere type of person and it has been pretty much the same from the get go with all of this for a few very practical reasons apart from my personal privacy.  Not least of all, living in a country with some of the toughest visa regulations in the world, there really was no point in megaphoning this to all and sundry before that visa was approved.  Would I have fought it legally if the application was refused?  Certainly, for as long as it might have taken, but that could have been years. So relative silence was the logical route.

Reactions to my decision have been mixed and varied, but by and large relatively positive.  Family is full of good advice on a subject they know nothing about, but their intent is kind and considerate.  They are kinda playing catch up on the thinking process I have long since been through over that last couple of years or more.  They are not entirely surprised that I would choose to marry internationally as I have dated women from other countries previously.

There has been the odd remark from associates about MOB's and "Russian Brides" etc.  I tend to let that roll off but at times it is not so easy, however I will have to continue to live with that and they can continue in their ignorance. I did ask one guy if he percieved Russia as a place where they have "Bride Shops" where one can "Pick them over" similar to a product on the shelf of a supermarket.  He did laugh and answer, that to be honest, he had never really thought it through.  I suspect he is typical of most. Cursurey dismissal is the simple way to deal with something one doesn't understand.  Human nature I guess.

My father has probably (Typical of him) taken the most sensible route of all.  We have spoken only a little on the matter and he simply remarked on the naunces of being married, the practical aspects of needing to visit her family at home from time to time and in fact has not even mentioned the word Russian in any conversation. I note that he has done a fair amount of private research on her city, area history and so forth.  My mother is mainly running here there and all over researching suitable venues for the wedding.  Dear soul, the matter has been well and truely decided, but................well go figure, mothers are mothers. Ya gotta love 'em. (Most of the time)

Comments have come back to me that both my brothers have remarked that the whole family will need to make a special effort to make her feel comfortable and "At home".  Nieces and nephews are busy buying themselves "English/Russian" phrase books.  I guess they imagine she speaks no English.

A few "Half Smart" remarks from the girls in my office, but nothing too serious and in fact they all got along quite well together when she was here the first time. Probably the most telling response from a friend when he first met my fiance' last year was this.  "Hey I/O, she's just great, do you reckon if I smartened myself up a little I might be able to find one of those"? Product mentality again, but when one knows this guy, it was a very genuine compliment and remark of admiration.

The negative perceptions are out there in the community to an extent, but I think those of us who have thought this through, are at least somewhat aware of that and if tolerating that is the biggest price we have to pay, then IMO I have gotten a "Bloody Good Deal".

I/O   

[mervin]

My reactions have been similar to those of others. My friends think that every girl in the FSU is obessed with fleeing their country in search of a better life abroad, and that upon their arrival here they'll leave me at the first opportunity. I've given up trying to argue with some of them over this point. Some of them also think that Ukraine is an incredibly dangerous country and they wonder how anyone could travel there without a security entourage. I pretty much laugh when they say that. However, other than these little contentions my friends don't really care about my pursuits and I'm fairly confident they won't treat me any differently once I bring a girl here to the US.

My parents are even more supportive, and my dad keeps telling me he'll give me money to help finance my next trip!   Either he wants me to get married really bad, or he's just trying to be a supportive father. Either way I'd never take him up on his offer.

[I/O]

Either way I'd never take him up on his offer.

Never let pride get in the way of a "Good Deal".

I/O

[mervin]

Never let pride get in the way of a "Good Deal".

I/O

You're right I/O, it's a good deal alright! But I just can't accept my father's offer to help pay for my romantic pursuits.  I think his money is better spent on his own interests. 

[Turboguy]

I have a built in advantage.   Most of the people I am in contact with either work for me or are trying to sell me something.   

I see everyone saying don't talk about it until it is a done deal.   It makes me curious if you are afraid of jinxing yourself or ashamed of what you are doing.   Even with the ones that don't work for me or sell to me I don't keep it to myself.   My whole bowling league for example has seen photos of my trips with VWRW know all about the struggles we have been through and the ones I am close to say they won't speak to me again if I don't invite them to the wedding.   I am known to some of their wives as the one with the Russian fiancee. 

I am probably the one most likely to get an adverse reaction and so far I have never seen a bit from anyone.   Everyone in my office is excited that they get to help plan a wedding and I have people who sort of think of me like one of the serials at the movies when I was a kid.  The first thing they want to know when they see me is what is happening with VWRW.

[TigerPaws]

Turboguy,

 I would like to think your situation is the norm but experience has proven very different. Things should go a bit easier for you with that much support and acceptance.

By-the-way how is the it down in the Caribbean?

TigerPaws

[Turboguy]

Everything is great in the Caribbean.   We moved to Barbados yesterday from Grenada and are just getting settled in.   

If anyone does want a vacation type atmosphere I would suggest they avoid Grenada even though it is the most Russian Friendly place in the Caribbean (in Visa terms).   I liked Grenada but we were not there for fun but just to be together.   I suppose we are the only people in the history of the place who visited there for as long as we did and ate one meal in a restaurant which happened to be in the food court of the mall and went swimming about two times a week.   Some of the Grenada natives say tourism here never recovered from the war in 1983.   I would have to say I only saw 30 - 40 people the whole time who looked like toursits. 

All in all we are having a wonderful time just being together.   Barbados has much more to do and we will probably do a few things here.  We may even hit a restaurant here.  She is laying on the couch looking through the Barbados restaurant guide looking to see who has the best deal on Lobster.   

[MaxxumUSA]

Never let pride get in the way of a "Good Deal".

I/O

Agreed.

[MaxxumUSA]

All in all we are having a wonderful time just being together. 

Enjoy T/G.

That's the main thing.  Good for you.

[Kuna]

Question:

How have others in your life -- friends, family, and colleagues from home -- reacted to your interest in FSUW?

Do people "get it"?  How do you explain it to them? Do they have particular stereotypes about FSUW, and/or do they assume anything about you (AM) and your motivations?  If so, does this lead to any conflicts, particularly if you are already married and have a family or network of friends that is not accepting of your choice?  (Or perhaps the people in your life are happy for you -- I imagine people have had some different experiences.)

I am not asking here about general perceptions you have observed in the U.S. (e.g., as seen in mass media), but about the reactions of those close to you, the people who know you but have not had experience with international dating before you.

The comments from others here hold true in my environment...  but I've also had some diferent reactions to.

1. Some people around me have mentioned the MOB thing...  I try to shrug it off but once I just HAD to respond.  "Yep,  the best money can buy... if she had more money she might have got a guy who was taller... maybe even a blonde...  but she's happy with me;

2. A 30-something friend fo a friend warned me against Russian women.  A while ago she had ideas we would end up together - BUT THAT WAS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN! She said she'd done some research and found out so many were just depserate to get out and My Girl was probably just scamming me.  She went on to offer sex (we were in a pub - she was drunk... I wasn't anywhere near drunk enough) and I told her that it might be true that there are girls in Russian who are desperate to get out - but they are just as obvious and unattractive as the desperate ones hanging out in pubs at home.  She was offended...  we haven't talked since.

3. I was at a wedding and a girl who works for a charity I'm involved in said she didn't think I would ever settle down because I was such a "party boy". She went on to phone a mutual friend that I had dated a year or so ago and trying to match us up again...  IF IT DIDN'T WORK THEN WHY WOULD IT WORK NOW THAT I'M ENGAGED?

4. By the way... several women in my social circle have become more "welcoming" since I announced my engagement.  That has nothing to do with My Girl being from Ukraine... It's only a sign of the lack of character of the women in my social circle... thus my interest in UW.

5. My brother told me he'd heard Russian women were desperate to get out... "Maybe I should go get one"...  I had to point out that sadly no decent Russian women would put up with him but there were plenty that would marry him for his money.  He has "some" money left after 4 divorces to Australian women...   

6. Almost everyone else in my life has been supportive and I find it curious that no one has had the courage to say anything negative about me CHOOSING to take this path...  They seem to think for some reason that I would tolerate them stereotyping My Girl as "A poor desperate girl who needs to escape".

Of course My Girl is infintiely more educated and proportionately more highly paid than most people here so anything negative that anyone says actually says more about them than her.

I've flicked some friends... I expect to flick a few more.  I've made some friends though and met some people I genuinely respect.  I'm looking forward to the evolution that will happen in my life over the coming yers.

Kuna

[jen]

groovlstk:Because their wives kept them on a tight leashed and forbid them from associating with you and your beautiful wife...or...their wives already snipped their balls? 

Who knows? My gut is telling me that the AW were calling the shots, not the husbands. I agreed with what one poster said about contacting your friends at work. It is the least resistance approach to get them to tell you the truth about "why".

~sensei

Hi everyone,

Thanks for sharing all of these stories. There were several comments like sensei's, suggesting that negative reactions or rejection by male friends is probably because their wives are angry. Has anyone else seen this? Or anyone disagree? Anyone have specific experiences of hearing what the problem was, in so many words, from either your male friends or their wives?

So far a few reasons for those negative reactions have been mentioned, particularly:
--they assume she is a GCG
--they are jealous (men wish they had a wife like that, women are afraid that their husbands want a wife like that)

Does that more or  less cover it? Any other issues?

I thought Kuna's point here was interesting: "6. Almost everyone else in my life has been supportive and I find it curious that no one has had the courage to say anything negative about me CHOOSING to take this path...  They seem to think for some reason that I would tolerate them stereotyping My Girl as "A poor desperate girl who needs to escape"."  Do others have that experience? Do people in your life, if they have negative reactions, mostly say negative things about *her*? Or do they question you and your motives?

One last question that is perhaps getting pretty off the topic I began, but it's related. I could be wrong about this, but I imagine that in most cases, your friends/families/colleagues don't know too much about the FSU (since this seems to be fairly typical of the general population), which might add to their discomfort. What about you? I think that some of you had some experience in the region or with the language because of business, military background, etc., while many others probably went to the FSU for the first time in order to look for that special person. What preconceptions did you have about the FSU before going? How did they change once you arrived? Have your family and friends at home been interested to learn more about her country and culture, either from her or through you?

Thanks everyone, and I will check in next when I am back at the office tomorrow...

j.

[TigerPaws]

What preconceptions did you have about the FSU before going? How did they change once you arrived? j.

Jen,

I believe there is another thread in this question. It was an eye opener for me.

TigerPaws

[MaxxumUSA]

So far a few reasons for those negative reactions have been mentioned, particularly:
--they assume she is a GCG
--they are jealous (men wish they had a wife like that, women are afraid that their husbands want a wife like that)

Do others have that experience? Do people in your life, if they have negative reactions, mostly say negative things about *her*? Or do they question you and your motives?

Men and women both have their ideas.  For the men - many have made it clear to me that their perception is that women from FSU come here for one reason - a green card.  As a matter of fact I talked with a good friend of mine last night about my relationship with Elena.  He started asking me questions about her life, lifestyle, work conditions, etc.  I explained to him that she is "middle class."  In russia she makes a bit more than $30K a year in dollars.  For a single woman in her town this is decent money.  She has her own flat, car, Internet access,  cell phone, home phone, etc.  All normal things.  She also has a great circle of friends and family and she keeps very active in their lifes.  She has a GREAT life in Russia.

After explaining all this he still implied that she was coming here as a GCG because life is so bad there.  From my visits I can tell you one thing for sure...  If I did not have a son I am raising here in the USA I would jump at the chance to live there with her - if not forever at least for a few years.  The way she lives her life there is very fulfilling.

The negative reactions from women.  Let me digress:  I have many women friends - platonic.  Those women are truly friends and all of them are happy for me and look forward to meeting and spending time with Elena.

The women who have given negative reactions so far...  I am not sure if "Jealous" is the right word.  I think "threatened" is a much better word.  Threatened and extremely defensive.  Some outright rude.  Some that I have met for the first time have been outright rude to me - like I am a sub-species piece of crap that needs to go overseas to find a woman.  Nothing could be further from the truth and I can't believe the gaul they have to outwardly express their insecurities in this way.  This is BEFORE they even met Elena!  Ugghh.

I am unsure of how I will react should one of these women start to talk to Elena in this manner but I can assure you - it WILL NOT be pretty!

while many others probably went to the FSU for the first time in order to look for that special person. What preconceptions did you have about the FSU before going? How did they change once you arrived? Have your family and friends at home been interested to learn more about her country and culture, either from her or through you?

jen - The only reason I traveled to FSU was the pursuit of happiness - to find a life partner.  Not sure how much of my story you know so I will give you the basics here.

I started a profile on elenas models Dec 26 2006.  Within a few days I noticed Elena's profile and sent her an email.  She responded with interest.  We exchanged real emails and skype info.  On Jan 2, 2007 we had our first skype conversation.  We have talked every day for 30 minutes or more since then.  I visited her the soonest I could - which was Feb 1.  I have visited a total of three times this year for a total of six weeks together.  Her interview for K-1 is Aug 21 and I will spend my fourth visit there for 12 days and return with her.

Now...  My preconceptions:  Oh my!  I had NO CLUE about anything.  I did not speak one word of russian.  Literally not one.  And to be honest - three days before my first visit I started to get VERY nervous.  I told a few friends about the trip and that was THE WRONG thing to do.  They advised me I would be lucky to return alive.  I DID NOT find the forums until about a month after my first visit.

I was so nervous I could not hold down food or drink very well.  I gave my mother and brother all the information I had about where I was headed so that they could contact authorities in the case I disappeared.  I was afraid.  No other way to put it.  I thought maybe this was a big scam to lure me over there, and do some bad things to me.  BUT - I was in the pursuit of happiness.  I got my girls contact information - verified that she really worked where she said she worked by sending her a gift via DHL express.

I told Elena before I flew:  I put my life in your hands.  And it was true.  It was her job to protect me and keep me away from the bad things because I had no idea about anything.  Being that I am a manly man here in the USA this really was a different feeling.

My fear went away the second I stepped foot on the moscow flight.  There were almost all russian people on the flight and they looked normal enough to me.  They even tried talking to me in Russian so I must have looked normal to them also.

I tell you this because from my point of view at the time - I was willing to put my life on the line - just to find that one woman in the world who might be my soul mate.

[TigerPaws]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for sharing all of these stories. There were several comments like sensei's, suggesting that negative reactions or rejection by male friends is probably because their wives are angry. Has anyone else seen this? Or anyone disagree? Anyone have specific experiences of hearing what the problem was, in so many words, from either your male friends or their wives?

So far a few reasons for those negative reactions have been mentioned, particularly:
--they assume she is a GCG Uh! Yup! That pretty much covers it.
--they are jealous (men wish they had a wife like that, women are afraid that their husbands want a wife like that) Wow! Where to begin with this one. Yes the Aw are afraid their husbands will see the difference and expect their wife's to act more like what a woman should act like and much more, more.

Does that more or  less cover it? Any other issues?

I thought Kuna's point here was interesting: "6. Almost everyone else in my life has been supportive and I find it curious that no one has had the courage to say anything negative about me CHOOSING to take this path...  They seem to think for some reason that I would tolerate them stereotyping My Girl as "A poor desperate girl who needs to escape"."  Do others have that experience? Yes. Do people in your life, if they have negative reactions, mostly say negative things about *her*? Or do they question you and your motives? jen, for us it has been over 7 years now so in that respect not any longer but in the begining I would have to say yes and this goes to another thread about the changes in the people you associate with, both friends and sometimes family.

One last question that is perhaps getting pretty off the topic I began, but it's related. I could be wrong about this, but I imagine that in most cases, your friends/families/colleagues don't know too much about the FSU (since this seems to be fairly typical of the general population), which might add to their discomfort. A correct and accurate conclusion. What about you? For me it was an interesting learning experience one which is still on going. I think that some of you had some experience in the region or with the language because of business, military background, etc., while many others probably went to the FSU for the first time in order to look for that special person. What preconceptions did you have about the FSU before going? How did they change once you arrived? Have your family and friends at home been interested to learn more about her country and culture, either from her or through you?

Thanks everyone, and I will check in next when I am back at the office tomorrow...j.

TigerPaws

[Gator]

I have not been married for 8 years to a RW; however, I have been with RW for 5 years and one came to my home via a fiancee visa (there is a huge age disparity).

I will present the exact comments from friends, wives, etc. who met her. You can interpret their reasoning.  

Friends:  "Does she have a sister?", "she is a living doll", "I hope you have a prenup", "you are not going to marry that woman!", "I like her", "I am sure you know what you are doing", "she is a lot of fun", "do you think she loves you", "you could find the same woman in America", "after a while I really warmed to her and she is very intelligent", "you should live with her for a year in some neutral country and then decide about marriage (a psychiatrist).

Older Wives of Friends:  Vast majority commented "you need to find an American woman" (meaning someone their age, and I surmise it was not that she was Russian but that she was younger, and yet they knew that my ex-wife had left me for no serious reason).  A few liked her and couple of women said I needed a younger woman, butadded "you could find such in America."

Younger wives and dates of my younger friends:  "You are so hot" (a few moments later she fell out of her chair - a sure sign that one has had too much to drink), "I give the two of you only two years," and "she looks like a lot of work."

Ex-girlfriend:  "She is beautiful.  She looks like a seductress."

Sons - No problem with the younger son.  He had spent a week with her two children in Moscow and they loved him.   There is possibly a little resentment knowing she would take a big bite from his inheritance; however,   he wants me to be happy.  Actually, the problem may be the other direction.   The younger son has relationships with three young women (two at the same time, meaning all three exit his room together in the morning), and the Moscow woman had a problem with this.  The older son dates women only for sex and has little good to say about any woman other than his mother.  So I have to ignore him - even so he has nothing harsh to say.

[groovlstk]

So far a few reasons for those negative reactions have been mentioned, particularly:
--they assume she is a GCG
--they are jealous (men wish they had a wife like that, women are afraid that their husbands want a wife like that)

I know a lot of guys blame the disappearance of friends, etc., on the wives of their male friends. I'm sure this is a significant factor but I think it's a bit too convenient to put it all on the women. None of my guy friends has ever said this to me, but I get the acute feeling that they think I somehow "cheated" by folding the cards that were dealt to me and refusing to accept the same fate they accepted long ago. Not that their fate is "bad" or lesser than the one I'm pursuing, but the implication is that I wanted something better.

I'm purely speculating, but I also get this impression from some women... sort of along the lines of "hmmph, the path in life we chose wasn't good enough for you?"

I think both men and women who might be a bit insecure can take my decision to marry a Russian woman as a rebuke or insult. And it's way, way, way more pallateable for them to denigrate my relationship than to admit they're a wee bit offended - because that would reveal their petty insecurities.

[KenC]

groovlstk ,
Very good post!  I too got the impression from guy friends that I somehow cheated the system by going to Russia.  Which is probably a pretty accurate assessment. 

I have always made the *joke* that if we Americans knew how hot RW really were, the Cold War would had ended 10 years earlier!  I think back to 10 years ago, before the Anna Kornakova fame, and the American perception of RW was terrible.  I remember telling Lena that Americans think that every RW is 300 lbs, has missing teeth, a scarf on her head and is in the fields digging for potatoes.  No sooner were those words out of my mouth, that CNN was doing a story about Ukraine, and what stock film footage did they show?  An overweight woman, with a scarf on her head, holding a plate of potatoes.  When she gave a big smile to the camera, her missing teeth became visable!

Being of Russian decent, I have to say I was more than leery of the information presented in this country regarding Russia/USSR from back in the 60's forward.  Hey, I was as frightened as anyone during the Cuban missile crisis as we all thought there was going to be a nuclear war then.  But I was more subjective to the everyday political propaganda put out by the government here regarding my home country.  I have to admit that I never really made the connection between the hard working, strong family valued and "party hardy" people in my own family to the "Evil Empire" then as I do now.  Now I know that the "Evil Empire" was about politics and not about Russian people.

One huge side benefit to being married to Lena is that I have been able to get in touch with my Russian roots.  It has been a blessing to be able to share this with my own children too.  They were always taught by me to be proud of their Russian heritage and now they have much more information about their family's background.

This reminds me of something Lena told me on my first trip to meet her.  She said, "Ken, you are so much more Russian than you ever thought.  You have a Russian soul."
KenC

[Wayne B]

Ken C, I also envisioned RW to be big, strong women that could stand beside an AM and out work him any day.....One of the reasons that I made my first trip. After my first trip....I knew why Russia was thought to be a forbiddin country to visit...for at least AM....The Russian Government did not want to reveal the real 'beauty' of their country

[DKMM]

There are two sources of negativity from people in my life.  I suppose there could be more if my girl was more than 2 years younger than me or was much out of my league looks wise.

1.  Insecurity.  I know people close to me and I know who is insecure and who isn't.  The postive to negative reactions and all in between were directly related to these people's own self esteem and happiness in their lives.

2.  Ignorance.  The oh she is poor and desperate and wants to flee etc.  That's based on the past, probably because it held some truth before.  In 2007 and beyond you will see a sharp drop in the GCG phenomenon.  Like Kuna said, the only desperate ones there are about the same as the desperate ones here.  Life in Russia is now tolerable if not more enjoyable than here for a majority of young women (except for the ones wanting to settle down and have kids).

I laugh at the MOB comments because she's my peer.  But what gets me is the "does she speak English?" and the "is she educated or have a job?" type questions.  That's borderline insulting to think I could love someone that I can't fully communicate with, or that I would go looking for someone that is not educated or incompetent at life.

[jen]

Hi all,

A few questions were raised in this thread that TigerPaws suggested could be new threads, so I am going to start those up now...

[TigerPaws]

There are two sources of negativity from people in my life.  I suppose there could be more if my girl was more than 2 years younger than me or was much out of my league looks wise.

DKMM,

 You have brought up in a number of threads the concept of "out of my league". It has been my experience that concept is based on a mans lack of self confidence, nothing is out of your league if you want it badly enough all a man has to do is to keep on trying until he succeeds. This goes for seeking a Russian or Ukrainian bride as well, if a man settles for anything less than what he wants in life then he is in most cases selling himself short. The man might have to look longer, look smarter and travel a different path than others but it can be done.

I am not trying to flame you but you are in general wrong, it is up to each individual man to decide what skirt he chases, to tell someone a beautiful, intelligent, traditional lady is out of he league is to sell someone short without knowing them.

TigerPaws

[KenC]

Tigerpaws,
Man I have to agree with you.  If a man thinks a woman is "out of his league", she probably is.   If a man sets his aim too low, then that is his problem, not mine.
KenC

[TigerPaws]

KenC,

In extremily broad general terms I tend to agree in principal with DKMM "if" he is talking about the average Joe sixpac, but that is not what I have been talking about and maybe that is my fault. I am talking about a man with above average intelligence, with the time, energy, resources and a can do attitude, someone who is not willing to settle for less. I know many such men and all of them are sucessful businessman, some are in business for themselves some work for fortune 500 companies but all of them get what they want through hard work and refusing to be one of the crowd.

TigerPaws