visa for new wife and her two sons?

[Gator]

PhotoGuy could answer this better than I could but some of the reasons she chose to go back was that her parents were ill and she felt they needed her.  They have died since then so that is no longer an issue.

A valid reason, especially if there were no extended family to care for her parents. 

[AC]

So, I'm probably one of the few that thinks this is a train wreck in the making then.


Let's see, after a hiatus in the "relationship" of 8 years or so, you talk for "at least an hour a week". In that 8 years, she got married to an apparent alcoholic and had 2 kids and was, I assume, being emotionally unfaithful to this dude for part of the time with you. You haven't actually met the kids face to face nor have you actually met her in the flesh since 2006.


And you are planning a marriage to this person? You understand that it is a huge thing to be responsible for children? That their emotional and psychological well being is very dependent on the environment they are raised in? And you haven't even touched their mother in 8 years let alone lived with her.


That's my cheerful and optimistic take on this.

Well said.  There are so many fish in the sea; I personally see no need to get involved in a situation with so many red flags.  Usually when a man (or a woman) do this sort of thing -- they think: 

If only I can marry this person who I was always in love with, I will be happy!

Which is a result of them being in "love" with being in love and getting married at all costs, without any concern for reality.  In other words they think that "marriage" will solve all of the problems, when in fact it usually magnifies all of the problems. 

Throw in a different language, different culture and kids to boot; oh boy.   

[fathertime]

So, I'm probably one of the few that thinks this is a train wreck in the making then.


Let's see, after a hiatus in the "relationship" of 8 years or so, you talk for "at least an hour a week". In that 8 years, she got married to an apparent alcoholic and had 2 kids and was, I assume, being emotionally unfaithful to this dude for part of the time with you. You haven't actually met the kids face to face nor have you actually met her in the flesh since 2006.

if what Ade has said here is true regarding never meeting the children or seeing the lady in the flesh for 8 years then I can't imagine this relationship getting through the visa process.   Photo guy has alluded that there is more to the story, but what?  I don't see how those earlier factors can be overcome,  nor should they be (if true).   
In general, if a father has to be convinced to  permot movement of his kids, I think the other man doing the convincing should stand down.  That may or may not apply in this case...if the man is the basket case as described here.  The father-child relationship is not likely to be replicated by an older foreign man and I believe a lot is lost in the process...it is hard to say one way or another in this case, not knowing the participants.

Fathertime!

[Faux Pas]

I remember reading PG's account of it before. Quite frankly I don't remember the particulars of it anymore other than it was a train wreck from Hell and he got lucky.

I haven't been following the latest saga other than glancing through his comments on it and thinking wtf? To each his/her own but I'd wager this has as much of chance of success as a snowball in hell. There may be snowballs in Hell for all I know but, I wager there isn't and would have to agree with Ade assessment. Not that his or my assessment means diddly squat but there it is.

[LiveFromUkraine]

So there is someone who is not a believer in "Love conquers all"


Personally I think when women are young the are attracted to "bad boys" and think in terms of a knight riding in on a white horse and carrying them off to the life of a princess living in a castle and a life of eternal bliss. 


Once they get a dose or reality many start to realize that a good man who loves them and wants them to be happy is worth his weight in gold and a far better choice than someone who appeals to their wilder side.  PG fell head over heals in love long ago and never gave up on his dream.  She could not do better and I think a hard dose of the realities of life have shown her that.  I think they will be fine.

TG, interesting post and I do think you are correct in many situations. I guess I don't get the guys who go back with these women.   


The obviously didn't feel the tingles and went with the "bad boy" who gave them the tingles.   

If you weren't enough for a woman to stay, why would you want to take her back when this so called reality sits in?  I certainly wouldn't be interested in being a fall back guy when she decides she wants support.  Especially when she had kids with another man. 


There are too many women out there that you can have much more.  Maybe that is why I don't understand the mentality.  No reason to settle for someone who is obviously put the dude in a support role.


For the record, I am not saying this happened with Photoguy.  I was just interested in your comment.

[Turboguy]

For the record, I am not saying this happened with Photoguy.  I was just interested in your comment.

Well, my quote may actually have had nothing to do with the PG situation.  That was more just a comment on women's logic (some may consider that an oxymoron),

My impression of what happened between PG and his gal goes about like this.  She came over for 90 days but felt a loyalty to her ill parents and felt it was her duty as a loving daughter to return to Ukraine and take care of her ill parents.  Since she had made the decision to stay in Ukraine and care for her parents her life was going to be there.  So she meets the Ukrainian guy and marries him, has a few kids, guy dumps her, parents die and PG still wants to build a life with her.  It is a good choice for her.  They have spend over 3 months together and communicated on Skype for a lot of additional time.  Many have married someone who they haven't known as well.

For PG, sure, there are enough women available there that he could find a woman with less baggage and less problems than he will have with her.  He is in love with her and isn't interested in another woman.  Maybe he has a white knight complex, who knows.  Maybe he just likes challengers.  What ever it is she is the woman he wants.  The kids could be a big problem but maybe not.  They are young enough that they could in time consider PG to be their real dad.  Sometimes kids can ruin a good relationship and sometimes they can make it stronger.  PG is going into this with his eyes open.

[lordtiberius]

I don't know anyone here that should have worn white to their own wedding, do you?

[Ade]

So there is someone who is not a believer in "Love conquers all"

Is this really about "love"? They hardly know each other. Sure, they spent a few months together (and that turned out well didn't it?) but that was before a marriage to another guy, 2 kids and 8 years. IMO, if there was any kind of love involved, it would have trumped her parents demands  - as far as PG's admission goes, her parents were not ill at that time but her father tried to coerce her to do what he wanted, "Her father went on a hunger strike demanding her return."

Sounds like a loving home to me then. 


Or perhaps she was just making it all up as an excuse to bottle out of the relationship with PG. I wonder if her "illness" required a bunch of $$$ and did PG have to pony up for that.


You don't "grow apart" when you're in love with someone.


So, best case, we have  a couple of near strangers and a couple of kids going to try to make happy families in the USA. If it weren't for the kids, I'd say he's nothing to lose if he's willing to risk the DV charges but, with 2 kids in tow, this becomes a much more serious a proposition, not for him but for them.

[lordtiberius]

I like PG.  I don't like Ade.  But you would be wise to heed his advice.  A lot red flags.  Not a may day parade but definitely a Politburo meeting.

The unequal bargaining of the Father's rights is the big dealbreaker. Some of the members here might admire the Julio Claudian emperors and Joseph Smith and thus have no obstacles in reassigning marital and parental rights arbitrarily.   Even  if the father was a prison junkie chances are the kuds would want a relationship with him. How will that happen in this arrangement!  Have you made any allowance for that? 

What if you get sweeties and her 2 tykes out, the battle lines move and he is stuck there?  Or he gets hurt, or in jail for no good reason?  Things like that happen in Mexico which even Doll will agree is a saner place the the DNR.

And why this woman?  If you wanted hotter and younger, its not hard to find that on the Maidan.  If you did not want that, why even go overseas, we have an unlimited supply here.  Now most of us are not the Donald Trump of love.  Further with few exceptions, everyone of us has someone else's sloppy seconds.  But why this woman?  She has more baggage than the lost and found at the Moscow Metro.

Re-think this PG.  You seem like a good due who can do A LOT better.

[Turboguy]

To me, this issue of the sperm donor beinge willing to allow the kids to leave the country is between him and the mother.  If he is ok with it I don't think PG has any reason to feel guilty.  He has the power to keep his kids close if he chooses and if he doesn't give a crap then I don't think we or PG need to worry about what his best interests are.

If PG wanted someone different that would be his choice.  I have seen a lot of couples where some might think that one of them might have been able to do better.  Love doesn't always make sense.  The fact is that this gal is the one PG is in love with and wants to marry.  He has been in love for years and if he is happy the fact that he could find a woman with less baggage is no concern of ours. 

A very long time ago I had a good friend who had everything going for him.  He was tall, handsome, a gifted athlete, smart as a whip and a great personality.  He attended a family reunion and was keeping an eye on his young niece but also sliding down a rope slide into a lake.  The niece did something to distract him and he fell off the rope slide, head first.  Dave broke is neck and was paralyzed from the neck down.  The last time I saw Dave he had just gotten married to a gal who had been his nurse.  Her looks and figure were the equal of any woman I have seen on a RW site, she was a catch that any guy here would be thrilled to land.  Now why she wanted to settle for a paraplegic and all the baggage that goes with it when she could do better I am not sure.  Love doesn't always make sense.  Life doesn't either actually.

PG has had a dream for a long time.  It looks like it will finally come true and I am happy for him and wish him the best. 

[calmissile]

To me, this issue of the sperm donor beinge willing to allow the kids to leave the country is between him and the mother.  If he is ok with it I don't think PG has any reason to feel guilty.  He has the power to keep his kids close if he chooses and if he doesn't give a crap then I don't think we or PG need to worry about what his best interests are.

If PG wanted someone different that would be his choice.  I have seen a lot of couples where some might think that one of them might have been able to do better.  Love doesn't always make sense.  The fact is that this gal is the one PG is in love with and wants to marry.  He has been in love for years and if he is happy the fact that he could find a woman with less baggage is no concern of ours. 

A very long time ago I had a good friend who had everything going for him.  He was tall, handsome, a gifted athlete, smart as a whip and a great personality.  He attended a family reunion and was keeping an eye on his young niece but also sliding down a rope slide into a lake.  The niece did something to distract him and he fell off the rope slide, head first.  Dave broke is neck and was paralyzed from the neck down.  The last time I saw Dave he had just gotten married to a gal who had been his nurse.  Her looks and figure were the equal of any woman I have seen on a RW site, she was a catch that any guy here would be thrilled to land.  Now why she wanted to settle for a paraplegic and all the baggage that goes with it when she could do better I am not sure.  Love doesn't always make sense.  Life doesn't either actually.

PG has had a dream for a long time.  It looks like it will finally come true and I am happy for him and wish him the best.

Agree 100% with everything in your post.

[fathertime]

PG has had a dream for a long time.  It looks like it will finally come true and I am happy for him and wish him the best.

Despite what appears to be loony (at least based on what he has posted thus far), apparently this is something he is just going to have to do, if it doesn't fall through via immigration or a hangup on the lady's end. 


I've had some dreams that I have let go of because I looked at the situation rationally.  For Photoguy this may or may not be one of those cases, in any case he will continue to have time to consider all his options.  If he has been a father he will have some idea what he is getting into, if he hasn't been, then it will be even harder then he may realize.   


Fathertime!   

[lordtiberius]

Love does not always make sense?  So why not settle down with a man, a dog or a dead person? 


I myself  have donated a fair  share of sperm.  And yet label a man with that kind of epithet is beneath me.. 

If he wore a dress, heels and a wig for the rest if his life, he is still the father of those kids.  Nothing in your post addresses or even acknowledges that fact.

But it doesn't go that way with you . . . King Brenna's said to the Romans once "Woe to the vanquished . . . .  . Had he known he was inviting curses on his house would he use those words. 

You want to be dismissive of morality and drag others down with you feel fine.  Don't say we didn't warn you PG. 

[calmissile]

Love does not always make sense?  So why not settle down with a man, a dog or a dead person? 


I myself  have donated a fair  share of sperm.  And yet label a man with that kind of epithet is beneath me.. 

If he wore a dress, heels and a wig for the rest if his life, he is still the father of those kids.  Nothing in your post addresses or even acknowledges that fact.But it doesn't go that way with you . . . King Brenna's said to the Romans once "Woe to the vanquished . . . .  . Had he known he was inviting curses on his house would he use those words. 

You want to be dismissive of morality and drag others down with you feel fine.  Don't say we didn't warn you PG.

LT, some days your pretty dense!   In addition, your morality preaching is getting kind of old.   

If you read the thread, you would know that the children's father is supportive of the mother taking them to the US to have a better life.  That is why all the members comments to get it in writing.  So far, in the postings he has said nothing to suggest that he is trying to "take the children" away from their biological father.  For all we know they might make some visitation arrangements on their own (without your input).

BTW, I am a big supporter of fathers rights.  Fighting for joint custody of my daughter cost me about $250K back in the days when the Joint Custody Statute was first passed in California.  I would do it all over again.

You somewhat remind me of the religious zealot that is preaching to you face to face on the street and will not go away after you tell them you are not interested.  So far, PG has said nothing that would suggest he should be ridiculed for the position he and his girlfriend are taking.

As far as the rest of the story, it does sound like a higher risk than the average relationship.  So what?  People that go through life never taking any risks usually amount to be very boring people.  Whether in business or personal lives, the secret is to manage risk.  Lets pray that PG considers all the risks and makes wise decisions.

[Boethius]

As far as the rest of the story, it does sound like a higher risk than the average relationship.  So what?

As Ade pointed out, if it was just his life, and hers, then so what to a higher risk would be fine.  But it is not.  There are two children whose lives also will be affected the decision of adults, and they don't have a say in the matter.

[calmissile]

As Ade pointed out, if it was just his life, and hers, then so what to a higher risk would be fine.  But it is not.  There are two children whose lives also will be affected the decision of adults, and they don't have a say in the matter.

Isn't this usually the case?  Parents get divorced, children usually live with one parent or the other, the custodial parent remarries, etc etc.

In Ukraine, children of age 14 and older can petition the court to remove parental rights.  Under 14 years of age, the best welfare of the child is determined by the parents (in uncontested custody cases) and by the court when custody is contested.

If I read your inference correctly, you are suggesting that young children should be able to dictate their preference.
That is contrary to most laws I am familiar with and is certainly contrary to the law in Ukraine and the US for cases where the parents come to an agreement.  I believe that governments generally feel that children are better served by the decisions of the parents rather than the government sticking their nose in peoples business when it is not necessary.

What do you suggest governments should do about custody decisions that the parents have agreed on?

[Boethius]

I never stated anything about government.  I suggested that adults should put their desires aside to determine what is best for the children. rather than themselves.


If adults really put the best interests of children first, there would be a lot fewer divorces.

[Anotherkiwi]

...I suggested that adults should put their desires aside to determine what is best for the children. rather than themselves.

Agreed - it seems obvious, but unfortunately many couples don't seem to work through that area satisfactorily.

If adults really put the best interests of children first, there would be a lot fewer divorces.

Maybe in a perfect world, Boethius, but not in the real one.  What use is parents who hate each other (for whatever reason) staying together, just for the sake of the children?  Or women who have been beaten within an inch of their lives staying to receive more violence?  Admittedly the latter group would almost certainly serve their children better by leaving anyway, but your last clause seems to be suggesting that many more couples should stay together JUST for their children's sake.  If the parents' relationship with each other is doomed to the point of toxicity, then staying together is not going to be the answer.  Any tension will simply be exacerbated, possibly to the point of violence, and that would defeat the whole purpose of staying together in the first place.

Unfortunately, not all of us live in wonderful marriages which have lasted 20, 30, 40 or more years.  Heck, how many members here (other than yourself) are still in their first "normal" marriage?  If they were, they wouldn't be on this forum.

[lordtiberius]

They are not even divorced yet.

[Photo Guy]

Sorry for the delayed response. I've been away.
Thanks for the advice. ..Thanks Turbo.
I love this woman. She's very special and the more I know her the more I love her. I realize it will not be easy, but some things in life are not easy and still worth doing. I'm reasonable. So is she. So is her husband. The three of us want what is best for these two young kids. I have yet to hear any animosity or malevolence from the father... I pray that all goes well.

[lordtiberius]

How can you love a woman who is still married?

Tell me this is not weird.

[Photo Guy]

I also loved her years ago, before she was married. Do I need to draw you a picture?

[calmissile]

I also loved her years ago, before she was married. Do I need to draw you a picture?

For some people, even a picture doesn't help.     

[I/O]

Doug (PG) was hopelessly in love with Larisa (I'll stand corrected on the name) years back, everyone tried to warn him and only TG supported him IIRC. Commentary this time isn't going to write a different script - that said, Doug, I wish you no ill as I didn't last time either but I really must warn you to heed some advice and mine is blunt....
 
As Boethius has intimated, there are kids involved and I don't care how you slice it and dice it, until you've done it (married an instant family), you have no clue as to what you're in for. I married a lady with a child, it was my second marriage, I had travelled (read into that what you will) a lot more than most ever will and I was lucky (maybe a few smarts thrown in) enough to meet someone who wanted to fall in love, who wanted be with a husband for who he was (not only what he could offer) and who wanted that husband to be the father of all her children - she had (I imagine) to bite her tongue at times and hand quite a bit over to that husband (me). I can be the hardest SOB known to man at times and am very happy to stand alone if that's what it takes. We now have 4 children and are up to our necks in raising a family. The summary is, if there is a T shirt in this game, I think we own the cloth it was cut from.
 
Doug, I'm painting a little picture here because knowing you as I do, I think you'd make a wonderful grandfather, but rest assured, that is a very long way from instant parenting, especially sharing that parenting with a women who has, for all intents and purposes, walked all over you and thrown you to the wind once before. 
 
I get that you are "in love" with Larisa but are you certain you "love" who and what she really is? The two are quite separate and you'll need 110% of both to last any time at all. Most of all, these children need security and given the history, you cannot be 100 confident in your own mind of longevity and therefore will not project an atmosphere of security - it simply isn't possible.
 
Doug, I know the area you come from well and as you most certainly can observe on a daily basis, there is more than enough disgruntled immigrants (from the south) in that area - bringing two young children into an unstable situation and fragile relationship is only likely to ultimately add to that number. Please, don't do this.

[AC]

I also loved her years ago, before she was married. Do I need to draw you a picture?

Apparently the feeling wasn't mutual.