THE Definitive Answer re: Age Difference ...

[Admin]

OK - well *A* Definitive Answer anyway. Enjoy ...

Older men and much-younger women is a hot topic on which everyone seems to have an opinion...just ask Fred Thompson. PJM advice columnist Dr. Helen Smith offers her take on the subject.

Today's column will explore an issue that seems very pertinent to a number of you--older men with younger women.

Dr. Helen,

I am a married man with a much younger wife. I get ribbed about it all the time, from both men and women but mostly from older women who look down on me for having a wife who is 20 years younger. Do you think that older men should hook up with younger women?

Dear Reader,

I have two words in response--Hell, yes! I'll begin my answer by noting an amusing interchange at columnist Don Surber's blog:

Don asks: "A 90-year-old farmer in India became a father for the 21st time. What kind of woman has sex with a 90-year-old man? I mean, what kind of woman under 70 has sex with a 90-year-old man?"

Commenter Jeremy answers: "My kind of girl."

Okay the rest of the comment from Jeremy is not so nice but his point is well-taken. Older men and younger women can work out fine as can older women and younger men. I think the idea here is that you have to do find a relationship that makes you happy and if a younger woman fits the bill, what's wrong with that? I have never understood this whole issue people have with age and relationships. Younger, older-who cares? If you don't believe me, take a look at my prom picture here where at 17, I asked a guy two years behind me in school to the prom. Once we're out of high school, as long as someone is older than 18 and is mentally competent, what's the problem?

As Baby Boomers and Generation X-ers get older, perhaps its time to stop being so age restrictive and view people as people, rather than numbers. New research published in the New England Journal of Medicine overturns the stereotypical notions that physical pleasure is just a young person's game. The study found that people from 57-85 were still having sex almost as frequently as younger people who were sexually active. You didn't mention your age but my point here is that even older people--especially men, according to the study--are still interested in sex at older ages. The need to find a partner, regardless of age, is something that is important to both men and women.

That said, if a man is alive and enjoys relationships with women, why not go for women of all ages and that includes younger ones than oneself. You can't let others dictate to you what restrictive qualities you must look for in a mate, for that is giving far too much power over your happiness to others. Next time someone tells you're a "dirty old man" for being with a younger woman, just know that it's jealousy coming through and has more to do with the naysayer feeling inadequate, threatened or repressed than it has to do with you. As for the older women looking down on you, baby boomers used be into telling everyone to be free and happy--"if it feels good, do it" and now they're telling others--"you're too old to do it with anyone but someone of your own age" and are engaging in the worst kind of sterotypes and ageism of both the young and old. Brush it off and go enjoy life with your younger bride.

[Mir]

The study found that people from 57-85 were still having sex almost as frequently as younger people who were sexually active

They foregot to mention that the 57-85 year old men had recently married 18-25 year old girls from the FSU 

[jb]

Nothing I read in any of that tripe was definitive,,, it was all speculation and opinion,,, just like everything we read here.

Hogwash comes to mind.

[mspanky]

They foregot to mention that the 57-85 year old men had recently married 18-25 year old girls from the FSU 

57-85 year old men are having sex as much as younger people? Are you sure about that? Is Viagra the reason?

 Well, there goes the days of the free ride where trophy wives would marry old dudes because he was impotent or needed a pump yo get it up.

 I wonder how many young women are relishing the idea of sex with the old guy. It's probably a one waydeal.

[jb]

spanky,

I'm reasonable sure you are right, I can't imagine there is a legion of 20's something young women out there who are sitting at home each night thinking,,, "wow, if only I can find myself a nice 67 y.o. man to have sex with".

The very thought turns my tummy.

[mspanky]

 Like to hear reply's from the 20 and 30 something gals here. Would be interesting. maybe they are turned on by senior citizens . Or perhaps the turn-on is the thought of a huge bank account and the rewards they will reap once he's gone.

[Admin]

spanky,

I'm reasonable sure you are right, I can't imagine there is a legion of 20's something young women out there who are sitting at home each night thinking,,, "wow, if only I can fine myself a nice 67 y.o. man to have sex with".

The very thought turns my tummy.

John,

If you could, would you legislate so that men of age 67 would be unable to date/marry a woman aged 25?

- Dan

[jb]

If you could, would you legislate so that men of age 67 would be unable to date/marry a woman aged 25?

No problem,,, Right after I'm elected "King of the world".  In the meantime we just have to use some common sense on the subject.                                                                                    (I haven't seen any of that so far)

[jb]

Like to hear reply's from the 20 and 30 something gals here.

I think we have already heard from the ladies on this issue... It ain't good for the geractraics lookin' for the young cuties

[Gator]

I am so hesitant to post anything, hoping that the two of you will grow weary of sounding like babushkas sitting on a bench in front of a Ukraine apartment, chewing sunflower seeds and spitting venom.

Why not find some facts or stories to substantiate your opinions, especially after accusing the thread starter as speculation.

Here is an interesting story, all factual.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3314287.stm

It may turn your stomach; however, it seems that the love between the two was mutual.  They had been living together since she was 26.   They have a daughter.  Nicoletta supposedly had much talent in the business and was key in relaunching his career, although not to the heights he had enjoyed in the past.   She stayed by his side as he made a long hard fight against his cancer.

I would say that Luciano's final years were much happier by following his heart rather than listening to babushkas telling him that it turns their stomachs.  I wonder how many of his friends at the wedding felt the same as JB and mspanky:   Sting and his wife, Trudy Styler, Bono and his family, designers Donatella Versace, Alberta Ferretti and Domenico Dolce and Stefano Gabbana, actress Gina Lollobrigida and Italian soccer star Alessandro Del Piero.

The Big C got him in the end.  If it is not the Big C, it will be something else, sometime, somewhere.  Life is a blessing.  Enjoy it fully before you become dust in the wind.

[SANDRO43]

Here is an interesting story, all factual.

Yes, but that's for singers only. Incidentally ...

[mspanky]

 Not really a good example of age gap as fame power and money has a way of making young people forego age. Martha Ray,Elizabeth taylor,Mary Tyler More,Ivana Trump,Juliete Mills and many other famous women get guys to forego age too as fame does that.

 But do you really think men like Tony Randal,Pavorotti would have these young girls if they were the average Joe? I doubt it. Young women will put up with broke,chaeting young guys because they rock their world. rarely will a young woman put up with a broke cheating old man. These men better have "something" to make the trade-off of their youth a good deal. Usually it's more money then guys their age they can attract. But given 2 men of same income, same willingness to start a family,same level of attractiveness except one is 30 years younger. You'd better believe the majority of women would go for the younger one unless she has evere self esteem issues. Same as a man who has choices of great women, but can only date an old lady .

I agree there may be a very tiny monority of women who actually preffer much older men. But it's very small. Just like there is a tiny minority of men who preffer large  women or old enough to be their grandmother. There are porn sites for men who preffer that sort of thing. That being said it is not a pretty picture and I have yet to meet a man who admits to that preference.

 

[Misha]

I would say that Luciano's final years were much happier by following his heart rather than listening to babushkas telling him that it turns their stomachs.  I wonder how many of his friends at the wedding felt the same as JB and mspanky:   Sting and his wife, Trudy Styler, Bono and his family, designers Donatella Versace, Alberta Ferretti and Domenico Dolce and Stefano Gabbana, actress Gina Lollobrigida and Italian soccer star Alessandro Del Piero.

The Big C got him in the end.  If it is not the Big C, it will be something else, sometime, somewhere.  Life is a blessing.  Enjoy it fully before you become dust in the wind.

The article mentions that they had an 11-month-old daughter in 2003. Luciano was maybe happy in his later years, but his daughter will grow up without a father. 

[Vaughn]

I wonder if Luciano's first wife (and manager) of 35 years was as understanding about the age thing when he admitted playing around with the then 26-year old secretary.

I hate Gator's example. Same feeling about Bruce Jenner dumping his first wife after
she sacrificed a normal life so he could launch his Olympic bid.

You want a much younger lady? Fine. Just don't jilt a faithful wife in the process.
Relationships borne of deceit are what turns my stomach.

[Gator]

Vaughn,

I hate it too.  But sometimes both people are happier if they separate (and that comes from a man whose wife moved away with a troubled teenager still at home with me).  BTW, I read briefly that Luciano's divorce was nasty.  In contrast, I had an amicable divorce and today am glad she  - we were dysfunctional together.  She soon married a man 7 years older than me with far less money (she did not need it as she had half of mine).

Gaubaub,

Luciano was maybe happy in his later years, but his daughter will grow up without a father.

And so do a great number of Russian kids.   It is not ideal; however, at least she will know that her father loved her and did not abandon her.  

Luciano died before he was ready, and that happens to most people.  Nevertheless, the little girl has a mother and likely no financial worries.  And the little girl may have a tremendous singing voice.  Just hope she looks like her mother.

mspanky wrote,

But given 2 men of same income, same willingness to start a family,same level of attractiveness except one is 30 years younger. You'd better believe the majority of women would go for the younger one

Agree with you 100% if they were otherwise equal in all respects.  No two people are equal, however. With some women, a man's respect for her, his understanding, trust, mentoring, personality, social network, power (not same as $$$), intellect and the like are what wins her heart.  Young guys do not comprehend this because they have not yet fully developed these qualities.  

My ex-wife when I met her was dating a successful CEO 16 years older than me and a Phillies' starting pitcher (good looking too) 11 years younger than me.  Both men knew about each other, and she was amused that neither could understand what she saw in the other.

Before everyone jumps on me for supporting large age gaps (why did I post?), I believe that the vast majority of relationships involving old dudes and young girls are short-lived: the young woman is still discovering life and is picking the mind of an experienced wise man (or she wants $$$ from the old dude for silicone breasts & fabulous teeth to attract a younger stud, or she just needs a few debts paid off such as her college loan).  Yet, stories such as Luciano reveal that the issue is complicated and not straightforward.  To each his/her own.

[Misha]

Vaughn,

Gaubaub,
And so do a great number of Russian kids.   It is not ideal; however, at least she will know that her father loved her and did not abandon her. 

Luciano died before he was ready, and that happens to most people.  Nevertheless, the little girl has a mother and likely no financial worries.  And the little girl may have a tremendous singing voice.  Just hope she looks like her mother.

In the end though, it does highlight the problem: a 68-year-old-man, no matter how old he looks or feels, is much more likely to die in a few years than a 30 or a 40-year-old man. Yes, there are the exceptions that live to 101, but the reality is that a man who fathers a child in his late 60's will likely die before the child makes it to their high school graduation. I believe that neither money nor genetics is consolation enough. Yes, a young father can die as well, but his odds of living another 20 years is much better than a 68 year old.

[Bluebell]

I suggest a simple test to get the definitive answer for age difference: post an older guy's photo (with his permission, needless to say) on international dating sites, age about 65-70, for country indicate Albania or something worse (Romania and Bulgaria are not good because of their EU membership), occupation could be butcher or something equally romantic, but could be as well a retired teacher to see if intelligence  has value for young girls (someone here on the board won the heart of a young woman with intelligent conversations, if my mind doesn't fail), income level ~ €2500/year, with rented appartement and let's see and wait how many 20+ FSU girls will be interested. You can write long interesting and romantic letters, maybe your beautiful soul will be enough to make a young woman happy. A committee of people like jb, Gator, Turbo, Lily would have access to this imaginary guy's account on the dating sites and e-mail address and report the board about the number and type of interested girls.

This is only because some people still want to debate age difference

[SANDRO43]

Bluebell, I fit only partially your test-case scenario (64 y.o., only close to Albania , no income/apartment indication), but in my profile on dozens of dating sites I specify I am retired, and show my photo at left and the one I attached below.

Result: I receive a constant stream of some 5+ letters/day from FSUW, aged 18 to 60.  Even discounting scammers/agency-written letters, there are a lot of 20+ girls who offer themselves up (even though they may specify a 30-50 y.o. range) saying they're looking for their other half, wanting a "counter-balanced" man with a sense of humour, etc. etc. (I read their letters out of curiosity only when this is for free).

It must be my singing photo that knocks them over .

[Nando]

It must be my singing photo that knocks them over .

No Sandro it is your Italian suit that gives the game away:D
Girls in the FSU know how to find Italy in the European map. Besides they like the climate  in the south of Italy

[Gator]

Sandro,
I am jealous.  I never get anyone younger than 23.  You have something special.  Please tell us the secret.


Bluebell wrote,

This is only because some people still want to debate age difference.

Thank you Bluebell for reminding me how silly this is.  I entered the debate only because of Luciano's death and his example, albeit a rare example.

[Gator]

For those of you older dudes who wish to heed the advice of strangers to marry someone your age, you can still go to Russia and find your RW.   

Some of the older RW are rather sexy, walking in short skirts in the warm summer air..........as captured in this photo fromExile.  Fantasy material!  Enjoy!

[Gator]

Oooops!  Forgot the photo.  The suspense builds.

[mspanky]

gator, that babushka is hysterical. Probably a bit on the crazy side too. Now why don't you post a picture of the 60 year old studs that go looking for 20 somethings who really should be looking for women in their late 40's or 50's. A lot of these guy are not really that fit. You,TG are probably the exception, not the norm. In the same way there are women who look like this at 50.http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/phd/phd607/beautiful-older-married-woman-receiving-a-massage-~-rbbg_86.jpg

So there are 2 extremes. The majority of old guys who look every bit their age and then some and a few that look great. A majority of old women who look like Babushkas and a few that look great. Not all is in black and white. The ones who are old and want youth should really take an honest look at themselves and asssess which catagory they belong in when seeking an honest mate.

   But we all know how men are. No matter how broken down and aging he may look, he looks in the mirror and sees a "good looking guy". While he looks at his equivelant in a woman and thinks she looks old and way beneath his league.

[Admin]

So what kind of 'bottom line' can be drawn from this exchange - if any?

We have a learned professional who basically says; "Pursue whatever makes you happy - so long as its legal."

We have some who have asked for facts and/or stats - however - consider what was provided. Gator did provide some facts, and many challenged them because they were celebrities. Consider then a response if I mentioned my neighbor down the street married to a gal 30 years his junior for more than 20 years. Would THAT be any more compelling? Doubtful.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no stats on this topic - so here we are left with a basic dilemma. jb encourages the use of "common sense" - but absent some kind of 'standard', who is to say what the limits are?

Examples:

* Man is 35, girl is 15 - obviously, this is illegal in the US. Clearly out of bounds.
* Man is 45, girl is 25 - what now?
* Man is 55, girl is 35 - and now?
* Man is 65, girl is 45 - now?

For that matter, man is 19, girl is 17 - how about this one?

Reverse the genders - any difference in your "tummy" rumblings?

My bottom line:

* Within legal boundaries, men and women have the right in this country to seek a happy and fulfilling relationship.

* What is 'right' for someone else may be entirely 'wrong' for me - but that does not give me the 'right' to condemn them for pursuing an entirely legal activity.

Just my $.02 worth.

- Dan

[Gator]

Dan,

Exactly my opinion, and not just because I am in relationship with a large age difference.