What is wrong with these people? The confessions of a useless dater.

[adamsure]

Hello everybody!

I finally made it. I finally got a date, and I am shortly om my way to Dobrovel... Dobrobelychiv...D-O-B-R-O-V-E-L-Y-C-H-K-I-V-K-A.   In Ukraine. My single biggest fair to that trip is having to say that name!

I am very glad my dates name is Inna. I hesitated a while before asking for her last name. But it wasnt to bad.

Anyway, I have been a member of a couple of dating sites for just over a year, and I have sent hundreds of emails trying to find the right one. But, I think I underestimated the competition. I got answers, but it was very hard to get the grip of things. You probably know what I mean.

So, in August I contacted a matchmaking service. Very rude people! The first thing they did was telling me to wake up from the internet dreams and get realistic. I already was realistic. Or, at least I thought so. Well, with a little help I did some adjustments to things, some preparations, and off I got.

The result, as I already told you, is that I have a date with a beautiful girl in Dobrov... a town in Ukraine. There was a few girls that wanted to meet me, but I kind of fell for Inna.

My agency told me when I contacted them that I had done most things wrong in my own attempts on internet dating. I had not prepared, at least not good enough. I did not know what kind of girl I was looking for, I was unrealistic about myself, I had not planned what to say/write...I was unrealistic about most things actually. Basically, they told me that I had not taken this seriously enough by far, and couldnt expect any good results! That I was wasting money, and was on my way to waste more... As most men!!

What rude things to say...

Well, I did it their way, and I got in touch with a few very interesting girls, so maybe i shouldnt complain to much.

So, to my question:

Do I just have a rude matchmaking company, or is it true that most men does not prepare well enough when starting online dating? And, if so, what things is most important to do?

I really would like some second opinions on this!

[Jack]

You want a second opinion,....I think this is going to be an interesting and funny thread.  I'm chuckling to myself even now.

[kievstar]

Based on what I have seen in Kiev most men crash and burn on first attempt. I run into these guys in the airport on way home.  These are not desperate women - showing up and expecting young / middle age beautiful woman to fall instantly in love is a fantasy.

Long distance dating is hard work.  But enough information on this board for men to be successful.  Just remember date in your league.  

[Vaughn]

I got answers, but it was very hard to get the grip of things. You probably know what I mean.

Adam, I have no idea what you mean - can you elaborate on this statement?

I don't think the agency was being rude. You're their paid client, not a punching bag. Listen
to what they say. When you mention how long you've been at this quest - and then say

I finally made it. I finally got a date...

it might be that you've been going about things all wrong. I do hope you have a nice date with Inna.

[jj]

welcome adamsure.   Your info says you have been to FSU 1-3 times.  Was that the Ukraine?  Did you not meet girls then?  Do you have a back up plan in case this meeting does not go as expected?   Good Luck on your trip.-jj

[adamsure]

Thank you for your interest Gentlemen.

First, yes, I have been to Ukraine before. But only to Kiev, and only in my job. No time for pleasure.

I think I have to go in to little more detail about what i mean. I am not asking about what to do when meeting a lady, but about preparation before even starting contacting ladies.

When I started my dating career by browsing websites and sending email to beautiful ladies, too beautiful maybe, I did what I think most men do. I looked for ladies who I considered to be in the right agegroup, and who had some other features that I considered well worth taking a closer look at...

Well, it is no secret any longer that this tactics was no great success. Travelling to Ukraine or Russia just on the basis of a few emails and photos was out of the question.

That was why I contacted a matchmaking service.

They told my that I needed to do this a totally different way if I should have a reasonably chance of success.

I am not going to go into detail about everything, but here is some things thy did. First, they prepared a 9 page "brochure" presenting me with high quality photos and information about me and my life almost from my childhood up to present time to present to women.

They asked me to find out the schools in my area in case a lady had children. They asked me to do a number of things, including getting the details of the schools in my nabourhood, in case a interesting lady had children. They even sent my photos back and told me to take a trip to the hairdresser. All in all I was prepared for just about anything and any question from a lady.

I almost felt like something offered for sale.

Now I had the choice of contacting ladies myself, but I chose to let the agency do it. I sent them contact details for ladies I did find interesting, and the agency contacted them. Those ladies who was interested in me gave the agency a lot of information about themself, so we had all very good backround information about eachother.

Only then I contacted those ladies I found to be of most interest for me.

The thing is, the agency claims that this kind of preparation is necessary to have a reasonably good chance of being successful. Is this true?

It does take some work, but anyone can do it. So, if it is necessary, why are not more men doing it? I decided to use an agency, the cost was reasonably, and much less that a wasted trip to Ukraine, but anyone can do it by themself, without an matchmaking agency.

If this is correct, why aren't most men doing it? I refuse to believe that my agency is sitting on a well hidden secret. Or is the chances of success equally good without this kind of preparation? It seems like there are a lot of successful gentlemen, ( thats you guys), that manages just fine without.

[groovlstk]

The thing is, the agency claims that this kind of preparation is necessary to have a reasonably good chance of being successful. Is this true?

It's a manufactured service, pure and simple. To be fair, if you have zero social skills or have limited dating experience in your own country, you might benefit from someone telling you what to do. Otherwise it's yet another ingenious method that FSU people have come up with to separate foolish Westerners from their hard-earned cash.

[adamsure]

No, I don't think so.

It is a European matchmaking firm, checked out all the way. I got what I paid for so I don't have any complaints regarding them. 

Maybe I should rephrase the question.

Is there any of you gentlemen that has any experience, or knowledge otherwise, when it comes to using a professional matchmaking firm with all their prepping, versus doing everything by your own the traditional way. ( Sendig a few emails and hoping for the best )

Generally speaking, being prepared is very important in most situations, but it can be overdone.

Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential - according to Winston Churchill.

[Misha]

The thing is, the agency claims that this kind of preparation is necessary to have a reasonably good chance of being successful. Is this true?

Checking out schools and hairdressing salons to be prepared? Sorry, but not this is not necessary to having a reasonably good chance of being successful.

[groovlstk]

No, I don't think so.

It is a European matchmaking firm, checked out all the way. I got what I paid for so I don't have any complaints regarding them. 

Still doesn't change my opinion.

I'm not sure what you're looking for here. Until you make your trip and meet your prospective matches, you won't know for sure if you "got what you paid for." Many a men here have used agencies to exchange letters and photos with women, got excited and planned trips, and upon arrival found the object of their desire suddenly had to leave town (i.e., she never existed). That's an extreme example, but there are a million other things that can go wrong.

Regardless of what you do, if I were you I'd have a self-prepared backup plan that has zero involvement with the agency. If there's one thing I learned during my search, it's that you should never 100% trust anyone who stands to make $$ from your search.

If you're really serious about this, you might also consider using additional venues to meet FSU women. Your agency likely has a very tiny pool of women (I'd bet they'll tell you their women are more "serious" and honest than the rest). Speaking only from my personal experience, but success came to me when I branched out and got off the beaten path.

[Misha]

Is there any of you gentlemen that has any experience, or knowledge otherwise, when it comes to using a professional matchmaking firm with all their prepping, versus doing everything by your own the traditional way. ( Sendig a few emails and hoping for the best )

Generally speaking, being prepared is very important in most situations, but it can be overdone.

What prepping? I did everything on my own and used a free dating site. Quite simple: knew what I wanted, met women, and finally found THE ONE. Did quite well without a personal matchmaking firm and was more than capable of doing things on my own.

The only useful preparation IMHO is studying some Russian.

[GoodOlBoy]

Welcome Adamsure.

Just my 2 cents, but YOU NEED A BACKUP PLAN..... PERIOD.

At least take your laptop with you, so you can make other contacts if necessary.

Also, have you spoken to "Inna" on a private telephone? (not using the agency). If so, how often do you talk to her?

[Gator]

Adam,

No disrespect intended, but you do seem inexperienced if not naive.  Men like you can benefit immensely from a full service agency, who will hold your hand throughout the process.  So you did what was necessary.   I just hope that your agency is reputable.

In my opinion, it is best to use an agency that will not blow sunshine up your arse and instead tell you what you are doing wrong. 

That answers your question.  I have some questions for you that will enable us to help you as you prepare for your trip (if you would like some suggestions):

Is your matchmaking agency arranging your travel plans (apartment, in-country travel, etc.)?

How does your matchmaking service charge you (flat rate, by the letter, etc.)?

Is Inna listed with your matchmaking agency?  If not, where is she listed?

What dating sites did you use for a year with ZERO results?

Did the RW answer you or ignore you?

Does Inna speak English? 

How much have you communicated with Inna by email?  Phone?

Do you know that there are professional daters who know how to take money from an inexperienced American?  (not saying this is Inna; however, such is possible)

Do you have a backup plan in the event you and Inna do not do well together?

When you first went to Kiev on your business trip, why did you not meet a couple of women? 

[Ulysses]

Adam,
         Listen to Gator.....he has the right questions you should be reviewing.  And have something of a back-up plan in the hip pocket for sure.  I had a small but solid agency after reviewing several sites, no extensive prep stuff,took their advice, corresponded for a few months, then packed & left.  I'm thinking I've been successful....very much so...thus far.... (and lucky too).   
         But.....when I got there....Ukraine....I relaxed......tossed out any "expectations" and simply decided to have a nice time, whatever came my way.   
        And I did.....and I'll be there for New Year's!!
Good trip........and keep us posted!!!!!!!! 
         

[adamsure]

Thanks again folks, especially Gator,

Inexperienced, yes. Naive, no.

So to your questions,

The agency has nothing to do with my travel at all except for giving some advice regarding airlines, hotels etc. And regarding a backup plan as some has asked for, it is my cellphone, laptop, Amex, Mastercard, a lot of travel experience from all over the world and some common sense.

I am paying the agency a fixed fee witch includes everything from a-z. Not cheap, but reasonable for the service provided. So far it has been well worth the money, the rest remains to be seen.

Inna is not listed with my agency. They do not list women at all. First I did some work together with the agency in order to be ready to make the first impression as good as possible, to show that I am serious and fully understand the challenges it is for a lady to move to a different part of the world. In most cases with a child, ( its here the school part comes in ). Then I gave the agency a list of women that I had found on a few dating sites, including their contact details. The agency then contacted the ladies on my behalf, exchanging information +++. They pretty much work as a recruiting or headhunting agency, trying to find the best match. Then I chose a few I wanted to go further with. And this is the point were Inna came in to the picture.

It is not entirely true that I got zero results in the year I was on my own, but I did not come to a point where I felt comfortable to take the next step, going to Ukraine to meet somebody. I felt I did not have enough information to get passed the "lottery" stage.

The RW did respond positive when the agency contacted her, and she had read my "brochure". She gave the agency some information about herself not listed on the dating site, and after a few emails back and forth we had quite a bit of information about eachother.

She speaks fairly good English, good enough to have a conversation about daily matters. But I don't think I should be discussing business or politics.

I don't now how many emails there has been, its quite a few, but we soon skipped the emailing and started to speak on the phone. We now speak almost daily.

I know about the professional daters, and that remains to be seen. But I do have her home address and phone number, as well as job address and phone number, ( yes, I have called her at work).

It was not the right sircumstances when I were in Kiev. I had business partners with me, staying at Hyatt Regency where there was quite a few very good looking girls, but...

Maybe I am just to careful...

If the date with Inna does not go well I am going back to the US. I only have a weekend. The coming one coming up, by the way. Then I will try the next lady on my list.

As I said in the beginning, I am inexperienced, but not naive. And I try to learn of both my own as well as others mistakes. ( If its working or not is another matter which is not to be debated here... )

I have been reading posts on RWD for a while, and it seems like many of us is doing the same mistakes over and over again. At least repeating other mens mistakes.

There are an extreme focus on scammers and pitfalls. Still, they manage to operate as before, and men, creature of habits, is stepping in time after time.

Why?

Why do we not "take action" by finding other ways and standards of doing things? Well, thats a different discussion, maybe I will stick my head out and start another tread..

[GoodOlBoy]

challenges it is for a lady to move to a different part of the world. In most cases with a child, ( its here the school part comes in ).

Sorry Adamsure, but I have to disagree. There are A LOT of RW/UW available with NO children, unless you want to have a child?

Also, have you looked into any of the "STAN" countries? There are some very nice ladies there too.

[Faux Pas]

adamsure

There are a number of avenues for meeting FSU ladies. There are success stories as well as crash and burn stories in all of them. One person might swear theirs is the best way with and the highest chance of success as will the next guy. My point here is, they can all be successful. I really believe it has more to do with the individual than the method.

If you are happy your matchmaking service has provided the service you've paid them for then, that is all well and good. There are many in this pursuit that would not choose to go that way. That doesn't make them right or wrong, just different.

This process can be over thought as well as under thought. Some make the trip with overkill and some do it without much forethought at all. It really is what suits the individual. You seem very comfortable in your approach and you should. You are the only one that needs too.

Good luck

[Jooky]

That I was wasting money, and was on my way to waste more...

They were right, because you paid them for advice you could have gotten here for free and to contact women which you could have done on your own.  How much did this agency charge you?

The thing is, the agency claims that this kind of preparation is necessary to have a reasonably good chance of being successful. Is this true?

No.

So, if it is necessary, why are not more men doing it?

Because it's not necessary. Finding a date in the FSU is the easy part!

I'd like to hear more about what you were doing wrong that made it so difficult for you to line up a date over the course of a year. How old are you, and what age range were you looking at? Were you writing to women that you would normally consider out of your league? Did you have very specific criteria? Did the agency advise you to compromise your criteria? Were you writing something in your letters that turned women away? What specifically do you think you were doing wrong?

Honestly, I think the method advocated by this agency is dangerous, and here is why:

It's no secret that women signing up with agencies are to various degrees looking for a better life. On one extreme are women who are willing to do anything and ride the first mule that comes along to take them to a better life. At the other are women who can't find the right man and consider it a sacrifice to leave Russia if they can only find him. (Yes, they are rare, but they do exist).

In between the extremes, many women are willing to compromise and marry a man they do not love (yet) in order to improve their life. By selling your situation (down to what schools are available for your prospective bride's children) and marketing yourself you are attracting these women. There is a never ending thread her discussing a situation with a Green Card Girl. I think the method sold by this agency is a good way to attract a Green Card Girl and likely to make many sincere women pass you by!

It's much better to develop a real conversation over time than to market yourself with a brochure. Most important is what happens in person. You're not out of the lottery stage until you meet.

I don't mean to be pessimistic. You certainly can meet a good girl using any method. At least you are talking on the phone daily with Inna. This is a good sign. I wish you luck! Take it easy.

[Sculpto]

They were right, because you paid them for advice you could have gotten here for free and to contact women which you could have done on your own.  How much did this agency charge you?

No.

Because it's not necessary. Finding a date in the FSU is the easy part!

I'd like to hear more about what you were doing wrong that made it so difficult for you to line up a date over the course of a year. How old are you, and what age range were you looking at? Were you writing to women that you would normally consider out of your league? Did you have very specific criteria? Did the agency advise you to compromise your criteria? Were you writing something in your letters that turned women away? What specifically do you think you were doing wrong?

Honestly, I think the method advocated by this agency is dangerous, and here is why:

It's no secret that women signing up with agencies are to various degrees looking for a better life. On one extreme are women who are willing to do anything and ride the first mule that comes along to take them to a better life. At the other are women who can't find the right man and consider it a sacrifice to leave Russia if they can only find him. (Yes, they are rare, but they do exist).

In between the extremes, many women are willing to compromise and marry a man they do not love (yet) in order to improve their life. By selling your situation (down to what schools are available for your prospective bride's children) and marketing yourself you are attracting these women. There is a never ending thread her discussing a situation with a Green Card Girl. I think the method sold by this agency is a good way to attract a Green Card Girl and likely to make many sincere women pass you by!

It's much better to develop a real conversation over time than to market yourself with a brochure. Most important is what happens in person. You're not out of the lottery stage until you meet.

I don't mean to be pessimistic. You certainly can meet a good girl using any method. At least you are talking on the phone daily with Inna. This is a good sign. I wish you luck! Take it easy.

Ditto!

[dispozo]

There are a number of avenues for meeting FSU ladies. There are success stories as well as crash and burn stories in all of them. One person might swear theirs is the best way with and the highest chance of success as will the next guy. My point here is, they can all be successful. I really believe it has more to do with the individual than the method.

I agree 100%

[CaptB]

Question: What is the "name" of the agency you are using?


Capt B

[I/O]

I'm not sure what you're looking for here.

Same as most who come to forums, they're generally looking for others to confirm their own ideas.

Adamsure: Don't care how much you sing the praises of any agent, an agent is just that, they make money from providing a service you think you need. Maybe you do need that service. You're the only judge of that. An agents livelihood relies on telling you they have the silver bullet and you wouldn't possibly have a clue if you do it any other way, much like many posters on forums actually when you think about it. Much of it is simply content for the crap croc. My Mrs certainly never received any 9 page la de dah serving of dribble. I was busy chatting up (face to face) her sister when we first met and I switched tack, it probably doesn't get any less polite than that.

If you wish to use an agent, go right ahead, I have no issue with that, but I suggest you piss the agent off into the sidelines as soon as is practically possible after you have established direct communication with you lady.

I/O 

[chivo]

It has been said many times that certain people should not get involved with the idea of marriage to woman from the FSU. Personally, I would put that number, oh, at around 99% of the foreign male population.

Sure, go and take in the sights, marvel at the differences in culture, and even date and have some fun with the local female population.

Dating is easy. Marriage is not. A smart foreign man can easily understand this and save himself the time, trouble, and money as this is surely a successful long term investment only for a select "few".

How ironic that the OP chose the moniker "Adamsure". If there is one thing that I am sure of is that "Adamsure" does not belong in the company of the aforementioned "selected" few.

Does not make him a bad guy. Does not make him anything but somebody who should turn his prospects of marriage somewhere more productive and possible. Good luck.

chivo

[topofthekey]

Adam I don't know your age or anything about you but if you feel like the people providing you a service are always rude to you.... that doesn't seem cool. Nothing wrong with being brutally honest.... if you got a mullet then i guess i understand the comments. but checking into local schools... sounds like some b/s.

I flew into a place that as far as i know don't have any agencies. It was my first trip over so I just wanted to learn about the city and the culture and all that. Me and my wingman met a ton of people from both sexes. I can only speak about me personally... but one thing i learned is that i don't need to be using agencies or writting a bunch of letters. There are some countries where damn near all the younger girls speak at least some english too.

[Jumper]

In general i'm confused at what you are asking here?

wether your chosen matchmaking service is feeding you a line?

any good lie ,(or sales pitch in this case ) contains sound elements of truth!!!


So yes ,they are mostly making a sales pitch.
is some of it decent advice ? possibly, as it really depends on you and who you are as a person.

noone here can know? we havnt spoken to you, or know the story behind your search so far.
it maybe they are totally off base in your case..
or it could be that you needed told straight up that you were being unrealistic and needed to be more focused..to improve your chances...

odds are if you took a year, and then a matchmaking service to obtain a "weekend" date with a woman in the FSU....then you just
might need thier help wether it is great help , or mediocre.



i'm the most confused by your thread title?


What is wrong with these people ?
 (by "these people" do you mean the matchmaking agency you seem to both mistrust, yet defend?)

you seem to question them big time in your thread title, yet defend them and say you are happy with thier service because at "least" you have a date now.. when anyone critizises their actions..


The confessions of a useless dater..

(who is the useless dater? you? if so why?  this seems a very strange statement to make when you "finally" have a date lined up)

why would anyone consider themselves useless? or useless at dating?
if you do, ,then absolutely you should not knock your matchmaking service..because i nthat case any help ,is help indeed?

what are the confessions?
that the matchmaking agency was rude to you?
or that you havnt had a date there yet?


sorry i don't really  intend  to be so negative.

so ok-

you have a weekend date,in a provincial Ukranian city..
 you seem to like her, and her you.

why worry about what the service told you? or any  lack of success at getting an FSU date thru the past correspondence --

that's simply spilt milk now.


go meet her, experience the Ukranian people ,country,language  and culture.

wether you two hit it off or have anything at all in common in  a romantic way,, you should still come home with a fresh outlook,
some insight,  and some real world information on how things are , and experience in at least a date or two over in another culture.

while not much..
that's WORLDS ahead of where you are now.

so be confident ,observant, polite , relax and try to enjoy the experience for the short time you're there,
and mostly be yourself and just see where it goes.


if you ever decide to return or contunue this pursuit,,
 really plan more time there,,
besides the utmost importance of spending the time to really talk with your intended date,
being the kind of preperation you should do *before the trip*..
the preperation to plan your schedule so you can actually make a minimum of a weeks trip..
is really important i'd think.
as in a weekend you will suffer jet lag and simply spend so much of your time traveling..
its hardly worth it...
you really need more than a weekend to get much of an true experience..
or to get to know anyone, or meet or date anyone else if that doesnt turn out well..
but it is far better than nothing.


brush up on some common russian phrases,,
it can help your confidence in many situations,,
and brush up on the cryllic alphabet, it isn't nearly as difficult as it looks,,
and since most Russian words are spelled "fonetically"  heh
you will be able to at least read a few common ,or similar  words
 that you'd other wise miss them entirely.
(ei: airport ,taxi, pharmacy, restaurant)


good luck!


i'm an old married guy,so we are generally a tad more cranky in our style of advice, but we mean well.

i'm off to go break a hip now..and run the kids off my dang  grass! 

[ChrisBfla]

My wife is the first woman I wrote to (I only wrote to one other) After 4 months I headed over to see her.  We were engaged by the second day.  I flew back 3 months later and stayed almost an entire month.  Then returned again for the exit interview and the flight back to New York. (we stayed in the city for a few days before heading back to my home in Fla.).  That was 8 years ago.  I'm sure I did not do anything right but it all worked out.

Chris