Newt or Mitt VS Obama. Can either of 'em beat him?

[Gator]

Has anyone been following JustiaGate?

http://www.examiner.com/civil-rights-in-portland/justiagate
 
I don't pay much attention to these accusations and accept as fact that Obama was born in Hawaii.  However, as a friend has shown me, JustiaGate seems more like a conspiracy.   The more I read, the more it seems that something could be there. 

JustiaGate alleges illegal and clandestine changes were made in the US Supreme Court's archives to hide an 1892 case. That case would support a decision to exclude Obama from eligibility for President.   . 

Opponents of Obama searched in 2008 for reasons to exclude Obama's candidacy.   Not discovering the case, opponents of Obama instead concentrated on his birth certificate, which was also withheld.

I checked Snopes for accuracy and it was not mentioned.  Guess what, Soros (the money behind Snopes) is mentioned as a source of funding for one of the  culprits who allegedly altered the Justia records.
 
I would like to know more without sounding like a right-wing nutcase.

[BC]

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=88&invol=162

findlaw.com has it and 'Minor v. Happersett 88 US 162 (1875)' is easily googled.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Minor_v._Happersett.aspx was published to the inet long before 2008

I wouldn't classify this as some grand conspiracy... 

[Misha]

Nearly 100 advertisers stampede away from right-wing radio

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/03/10/nearly-100-advertisers-stampeding-away-from-right-wing-radio-altogether/

I take it they realized that the majority of customers are women, and I would expect that most of them have been on birth control at some point in their life    Now, if only the Republican contenders understood this simple demographic reality that the majority of voters are women 


I enjoyed this little melody in response to Limbaugh's comments:



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fZK75pXLlbY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Gator]

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=88&invol=162

findlaw.com has it and 'Minor v. Happersett 88 US 162 (1875)' is easily googled.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Minor_v._Happersett.aspx was published to the inet long before 2008

I wouldn't classify this as some grand conspiracy...

At first glance, it seems kosher.  However, the Wayback Machine shows that the material scrubbed in 2008 was later replaced.  Why?   Who?

I am not stating it is a conspiracy, yet it is another question suggesting there could be a conspiracy.  I get all of this from a close friend who voted for Obama, and he now feels betrayed because Obama is taking the nation in the wrong direction.   My friend is livid, so I mostly appease him; however, Justiagate caught my attention.   Why doesn't Snopes clear the air? 

Reading some of the strange posts in this thread I thought one of the posters knew something.
 
Anyway, I read more legal opinions about the scrubbed Supreme Court case.  It was a voting rights case, and not a citizenship case.    Supposedly the issue of "natural born citizen" was resolved much later by a controlling citizenship case (Wong Kim Ark vs. USA).  My friend counters that the cases are mangled.
Maybe all of this is a conspiracy by anti-Obama folks to create the suggestion of a conspiracy.      The only truth - politics is a dirty business. 

[BC]

The only truth - politics is a dirty business.

Indeed..

In regards to the justiagate.com site, there may have been some manipulation there.  The fact that waybackmachine blocked robots trying to parse information from their site is not unusual as it would allow material to be replicated elsewhere and they want folks to go to their machine and not another.

In any case justiagate is a legal info site, probably one not taken that seriously by lawyers who have more authoritative info in databases they pay for.  I occasionally use PACER for example to get the 'lowdown' on actions.

If you goto google you can input the date range of results.  With http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Minor_v._Happersett.aspx  it was published and has been available since 2005.  If you search for internet articles found by google between 2007 and 2008 you will find approx 27 references to this case.

As to what happened at justiagate, haven't a clue, but what I'm saying is it does not matter.  There were aplenty lawyers looking into the matter back then that basically turned up nothing wrong.  The public had access to a number of other sites at the time that did have full content.  The theory that 99.9% were relying on justiagate is simply wrong.... 99.9% rely on media alone and that's the real problem.

Your friend can sleep well.  Even if all records were electronic and all books burned/banned he would have little to worry about.  It will be a long time before SCOTUS goes totally electronic and even then digitally signed copies will be available in a million places on the planet within milliseconds of their publication.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/obtainopinions.aspx will lead any citizen to reliable sources of their opinions.  I don't see justigate listed.  If you can find the same situation at any of these sites, I am quite sure the Court would drop them immediately from their listing.

Information is power, and in this case information is everywhere.. and the internet is great for putting that power in the hands of the people.. but as always is good to check your sources.

[BC]

Just tried whois lookups....

justia.com is a nobody...

Take it from there.

[acctBill]

At first glance, it seems kosher.  However, the Wayback Machine shows that the material scrubbed in 2008 was later replaced.  Why?   Who?

I am not stating it is a conspiracy, yet it is another question suggesting there could be a conspiracy.  I get all of this from a close friend who voted for Obama, and he now feels betrayed because Obama is taking the nation in the wrong direction.   My friend is livid, so I mostly appease him; however, Justiagate caught my attention.   Why doesn't Snopes clear the air? 

Reading some of the strange posts in this thread I thought one of the posters knew something.
 
Anyway, I read more legal opinions about the scrubbed Supreme Court case.  It was a voting rights case, and not a citizenship case.    Supposedly the issue of "natural born citizen" was resolved much later by a controlling citizenship case (Wong Kim Ark vs. USA).  My friend counters that the cases are mangled.
Maybe all of this is a conspiracy by anti-Obama folks to create the suggestion of a conspiracy.      The only truth - politics is a dirty business.

Gator if you and your friend don't like the direction Obama is moving the US, vote for the other guy in November. Unfortunately the US is a two party country so your choices are limited if you want your vote to count.  As an outsider, not an American citizen, it seems Obama is simply doing what he promised when he ran in 2008.   

[Faux Pas]

Gator if you and your friend don't like the direction Obama is moving the US, vote for the other guy in November. Unfortunately the US is a two party country so your choices are limited if you want your vote to count.  As an outsider, not an American citizen, it seems Obama is simply doing what he promised when he ran in 2008.

Really? What does an outsider remember of the promises Obama made in 2008? Do you remember the promises?

[Eduard]

I can't think off hand of one promise that he kept. I think (maybe hope is a better word) that people in the middle, swing voters who voted for him in 08 now realised who he is and where he is taking this country. I hope that any one who isn't hard core left will vote for a Republican this November. At this point I kinda like Romney/Rubio combo, but any one of the guys running would be better than Obama IMO.

[Darth_Budda]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17526572


So can some one tell me why Mitt thinks Russia is our number one geopolitical foe?

[mendeleyev]

The Mendeleyev Journal:

In the years of the cold war Russia considered the USA to be the "main adversary." In remarks Monday following the accidental open microphone conversation between Presidents Obama and Medvedev, candidate Mitt Romney told CNN's Wolf Blitzer in an interview that Russia is "without question our No. 1 geopolitical foe" citing his belief that Russia "fights every cause for the world's worst actors."

For both presidents the hot-mic comments by President Barack Obama at the international nuclear summit in Seoul was embarrassing as Mr. Obama was overheard telling Russian president Dmitry Medvedev that he would have more flexibility in arms-control negotiations after the U.S. presidential election in November.




(L-R: US President Obama and Russian President Medvedev greet each other in Seoul, South Korea.)


Romney used the occasion to accuse Obama of hiding future concessions once the US presidential election is over in November. Since Monday many political figures have said that the Obama administration has been too soft on Russia.
 
Russian President Medvedev ridiculed the statement by saying, "It smells of Hollywood. Candidates for the U.S. presidency should use reason when they make such statements."

 A close Medvedev associate, Alexander Sokolov, who heads Russia's Public Chamber's international affairs working group said, "Republicans have decided to play the Marlboro man in how they position themselves on the international stage."

[newjason]

[Darth_Budda]

Mitt reminds me of Brick Tamland, from the "Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy"

you know the guy who loves lamps,,,

[BC]

I officially declare the Republican primaries useless.

The nation simply cannot stand another 8 months of watching them crap all over themselves.  Even watching them trying to crap on others is abhorrent.

It's a lost cause.

The next Presidential candidate representing both Republicans and Democrats - none other than Obama.

[Darth_Budda]

Lol,, I guess I was not the only one who thinks this!!!!!

[Gator]

I officially declare the Republican primaries useless.

The nation simply cannot stand another 8 months of watching them crap all over themselves.  Even watching them trying to crap on others is abhorrent.

The Democratic primaries in 2008 were almost as bad, the only difference was that the Democrat candidates were more moderate than Gingrich and Santorum.   

It's a lost cause.

Romney will do fine when it is him vs. Obama, particularly Obama's record.

The next Presidential candidate representing both Republicans and Democrats - none other than Obama.

That was his allure in 2008.  His true colors have been revealed.  If you resided here you would understand the hatred many people have against him.    Basically, everyone agrees with 80% of what Obama says, yet disagrees with 80% of what he does. 
 
The key election issue should be about the economic vitality of America, not just now but over the long term.  Romney can run circles around Obama regarding this issue.   
 
If Obama does win, he will need to work with a Republican Congress.  He did not do that in his first 4 years.  For example, Obamacare received zero Republican votes.  ZERO.   And  as this 2,000-page law is better understood (13,000 pages of regulations so far and climbing), its costs keep rising.  The Congressional Budget Office now estimates it will cost $1.76 trillion for 10 years, up from $940 billion when it first became law.

[The Natural]

The key election issue should be about the economic vitality of America, not just now but over the long term.  Romney can run circles around Obama regarding this issue.   
 

As a non-american I might have too many opinions about the election, but I think it's called for because USA is the superpower of the world still and what happens there affects us all to some extent.
 
As far as I'm concerned you have a one-party system in the US. Democrat or Republican is the same, just a little different flavour, that's all. In Europe Bush was hated and when Obama came on the stage he was loved. Most people like charisma and pretty words and being politically correct. Obama did not change anything, of course. Before he was elected I wrote articles on my blog warning against him. But the people here and there make up excuses for him because he's a sweet talker, has charisma and is half black. He increased the attrocities of Bush and and made new wars and dug the US deeper in an economic mightmare.
 
This administration is continuing the previous wars and adding new ones! There's Egypt and Libya and on the books Syria and Iran. Drones over Pakistan and on and on. It never ends, republican or democrat. And now the Americans are ready to make yet another mistake to vote for a mormon, a slick billionaire who supposedly offer yet another change!!!
 
I cannot understand why the majority of Americans which I know are decent people, cannot see through the deception. Even on this site. Several very bright and insightful people support this or that war-monger as President of USA! Come on...
 
There is only one solution to this mess and that is voting for Ron Paul. I don't know how much he can do if ever elected but at least he want to pull the troops back, stop the wars and get on with a very painful job of getting the US economy on the right track.
 
If it's a fair election and the US people vote in Obama, Romney or any other company man, I fear we will have another 4 years of wars and economic disaster.

[Faux Pas]

I cannot understand why the majority of Americans which I know are decent people, cannot see through the deception. Even on this site. Several very bright and insightful people support this or that war-monger as President of USA! Come on...

My "from the hip" answer to you on this statement is, it's the completely uninformed and ignorant masses. Yes, I am referring to the majority of American voters. They suck up the partisan propaganda like flies to shyte, all while remaining completely oblivious to the real issues at hand. I believe it to be a devised plan by our politicians en mass. Our problems are our leaders/politicians. There is not a dimes worth of difference between the right and the left in Washington. Most Americans accept this illusion of division. Ignorance, plain and simple. Most just wish to follow rather than question.
 

There is only one solution to this mess and that is voting for Ron Paul. I don't know how much he can do if ever elected but at least he want to pull the troops back, stop the wars and get on with a very painful job of getting the US economy on the right track.

I disagree with you on Paul although I agree with him more than the other candidates. He makes too much sense fiscally and yet has some ideas well out on the lunatic fringe. He likely could never corral enough support to be an effective president either from the Right or the Left. What would help our political situation in America is a 3rd National party IMHO

[calmissile]

The  Natural,

I cannot disagree with your comments, however it appears that you do not have a good understanding of the present American culture.
Let me give you my perspective from someone that is well educated, and 65+ years old....

Several generations after WWII, have been schooled by the liberal teachers and professors in our public schools.  Each generation has acquired more and more of an attitude of entitlement from our government rather than focusing what you can do for yourself and your fellow citizens.  It has reached such proportions that the takers are outnumbering the givers.  Add in the illegal immigrants and you can see the chaos that it has created.  This gradually increased to it's present state from many sources, entitlements for everyone, union wage increases that were not justified, outrageous pensions that depended on future growth paying the bill, etc.

Our schools do not teach practical economics.  For the most part it is taught as some big complicated subject that is based upon theories that most people cannot relate to ordinary life.  I can remember the days when the mortgage industry was telling everyone that you are wasting your money by having large equities in your home...... you should take loans out to invest and spend on things you want now, not later.  Many Americans fell for the bait and eventually got upside down on their mortgages and eventually lost their homes.  Some common sense would have told you that owning your home outright would be one of the most secure investments and provide shelter even in bad times.  But then who uses common sense when the 'experts' on TV and Wall Street are telling you otherwise.

To exaggerate only slightly, many if not most High School graduates cannot even balance their checkbooks.  We expect them to understand economics further than understanding their bank account in is overdraft?

Learning history and geography in public school!  What a joke.  Most undergraduate Americans could not put a pin on a map of Iran, Pakistan, Ukraine, or most any other countries.  In addition, the liberals do not teach history in a manner that one would gain the lessons of past governments or the rise and fall of democracies and the causes.  The famous saying about history repeating itself seems to fall on deaf ears.

Due to the media blackout of the USSR, most Americans know very little about the Soviet Union and it's history, me included.  The History Channels on TV have done a great deal to educate us about the USSR and it's involvement and sacrifices during WWII.  The problem is that most Americans are watching Oprah or spending most of their time renting Hollywood movies or playing computer games instead of doing anything constructive.  Why should they?  They have been taught to depend on government to solve all their problems.

Things are not going to change soon, maybe never.  We might be already in a state of being too late to reeducate our masses.  Those with a true grasp of history, real down to earth economics, are in such a minority that I do not see much hope on the horizon.

We might be in the same situation as the junkie on dope..... we have to hit bottom, collapse, and then rebuild once everyone comes to their senses.

I agree with you that neither political party represents the interests of middle America.  It has been that way for a long time.  As long as we do not radically change the process of financing elections, things are not going to change.  Our corrupt politicians will continue to represent the interests of their donors and nothing will change.  While the Republicans offer a better fiscal solution, rather than more socialism,it is will still be at the expense of the middle class and favor Wall Street and Corporate America.  In addition, the Republicans radical religious right wants to control the minds and actions of the rest of American on the topic of abortion, pornography, and other religious teachings.  It even scares many fiscal conservatives.  When they put their religion at a higher priority than the survival of the country, they are  going to loose a lot of voters they might otherwise have.

On the other side, we have a moron in the White House that refused to present his birth certificate for years after he was elected.  From a common sense aspect, why would any presidential candidate refuse to release his records prior to an election.  Whether the current version is a fake or not, I will not argue.  It does not make sense that he would spend millions to keep his records from being made public when he is asking the American people to trust him and vote for him.  Even if I were a liberal, it would scare me enough to not vote for him...... but look how many did.  This should alone, tell you something about the intelligence of our current culture.

This is perhaps the worse set of choices in any presidential election in my lifetime.  Where is a Ross Perot when we need him?  The current campaign finance system will not allow someone that is not a billionaire to run for the presidency.

Unless there is a new candidate that performs a miracle, this is perhaps the worse choice we will face in our lives. It seems we are in a critical tipping point, if not already doomed.  The liberals will continue us into socialism until it will ultimately fail, or the conservatives will continue to support Wall Street and bailing out corporations at the expense of the taxpayer.

I will not even address the history of moving our manufacturing and good jobs overseas to Communist China.  That would be a book in itself and we have no one but our past presidents and congress to blame for it.

I hope that you have a better understanding of our current culture now.  It is not anything to be proud of, even though we are still patriotic Americans and hope that there is a solution before we face total collapse.

[The Natural]

I disagree with you on Paul although I agree with him more than the other candidates. He makes too much sense fiscally and yet has some ideas well out on the lunatic fringe. He likely could never corral enough support to be an effective president either from the Right or the Left. What would help our political situation in America is a 3rd National party IMHO

Faux Pas, I know you as a very wise man on this site. But I don't understand what you mean when you say Ron Paul "makes too much sense fiscally and yet has some ideas well out on the lunatic fringe".
 
For me personally it is not a moral position to state that you don't support a candidate because you think he will not get enough votes from the others to matter. It's like people saying they will vote for the lesser of two evils. It's still evil!
 
I agree USA needs a third party but only if that means it will be diffrent from the two (one) party system today. Ron Paul is on the Republicant side but he is very much unlike the others, on either side of the political flavour. I believe he sides with one side only to be in contention at all, lest he be sidelined completely.
 
You know as well as I do that Ron Paul will never be allowed to win the nomination, even if the American masses wised up. This is his last election I guess. After all, he's 77. But whatever happens, he's an American patriot in running and putting up the issues. He has warned the American public of what is happening and I think nobody with an ounce of intelligence would disagree that he can run circles with anyone in politics when it comes to economics.
 
I have a hate/love relationship about USA. I love the idea of what the USA was, it's potential and I hate what it's become. When the US decided to become an empire, that was it. Now it's a dying empire and the rulers want to keep it's citizens preoccupied with bread and circus while it's dying. An injured beast is the most dangerous when it's in that state.
 
What it was, was a country where the poor could come to. They could get land and work their way up, doing honest work. They had equal opportunity and didn't have to answer to landlords like in Europe.
 
I just cannot see any other way out of disaster than to vote for Ron Paul. Hey, when he speaks, even I as a foreigner feel patriotic. Believe me when I say this, I want USA as our ally, as our friend, a strong and free nation. But too many in the great nation has been duped into believing they can force their will on everybody. That has got to stop.
 
PS: This is not an attack on USA or it's people. We in Europe has equal blame in supporting the wars of agression on nations when "promoting democracy" .
 
 

[newjason]

I agree that Ron Paul is the only candidate that has any common sense and would be the most likely choice to get this country back on track.  Unfortunately, Most Americans are not like the people you meet here.

Many Amerians simply do not want to put in the hard work that it takes to succeed on a grand scale. They would rather just get by and have the fedreal government fill in the things they need. That is why entitlement spending is breaking records. Food stamps, unemployment benefits, welfare and others are on the rise in a big way.

It's a sad state of affairs when these are the best canidates we can put foward to lead this country back into prosperity. Sad indeed.

[The Natural]

Many Amerians simply do not want to put in the hard work that it takes to succeed on a grand scale. They would rather just get by and have the fedreal government fill in the things they need. That is why entitlement spending is breaking records. Food stamps, unemployment benefits, welfare and others are on the rise in a big way.

Yes, USA is well on it's way of making itself a welfare state and what it brings, a dependable people. We have it here in Norway, a nanny state. But we are only 5 million people and we have for now great income from oil. But we are made dependent of it. We are made dependent of oil and I'm afraid it makes us as a whole more secure in our beliefs in the future than we should be, perhaps more lazy. I believe in a certain amount of social net, but it can go too far and then you end up with a USSR type of society where everybody is cointing on the next guy to provide for his bread.

[GQBlues]

Ron Paul, LOL.
 
If that clown ever becomes the Republican nominee, you may as well start the coronation for another 4 years for Obama.
 
Forget his conviction that the tragedy of 911 is an act by Americans against Americans, but rather chew on some of these tidbits from his 1990/1992 newsletters that will surely surface if he becomes a nominee.
 
..."Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the `criminal justice system,' I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal."
 
"I miss the closet. Homosexuals, not to speak of the rest of society, were far better off when social pressure forced them to hide their activities. They could also not be as promiscuous. Is it any wonder the AIDS epidemic started after they 'came out of the closet,' and started hyper-promiscuous sodomy?"
 
"An ex-cop I know advises that if you have to use a gun on a youth, you should leave the scene immediately, disposing of the wiped off gun as soon as possible. Such a gun cannot, of course, be registered to you, but one bought privately (through the classifieds, for example)."
 
"Welfaria," "Zooville," "Rapetown," "Dirtburg," "Lazyopolis." –suggestions for renaming New York city

"[Martin Luther King, Jr.], the FBI files reveal, was not only a world-class adulterer, he also seduced underage girls and boys…And we are supposed to honor this 'Christian minister' and lying socialist satyr with a holiday that puts him on par with George Washington?"
 
"Order was only restored in L.A. (riots) when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks."
 
"We don't think a child of 13 should be held responsible as a man of 23. That's true for most people, but black males age 13 who have been raised on the streets and who have joined criminal gangs are as big, strong, tough, scary and culpable as any adult and should be treated as such."
 
"[AIDS sufferers] enjoy the attention and pity that comes with being sick."

Having said that, I do agree with him when he suggested abolishing the DOE and DOA...
 
As for separation of religion and state...
 
"Well, first i thought it was a very inappropriate question, you know, for the presidency to be decided on a scientific matter," he said. "I think it's a theory...the theory of evolution and I don't accept it as a theory. But I think the creator that i know, you know created us, every one of us and created the universe and the precise time and manner and all. I just don't think we're at the point where anybody has absolute proof on either side."
 
The guy is a loony. Sorry.

[The Natural]

Ron Paul, LOL.
 
If that clown ever becomes the Republican nominee, you may as well start the coronation for another 4 years for Obama.

 
The guy is a loony. Sorry.

I'm sorry that I forgot about you for all this time, but when you posted this... yes, I remember something that resemble your nick of a know-it-all-on the sideline kinda guy....always with a few well-thoughout few acid kind of lines...you that guy????
 
Well, whatever, it doesn't change one bit of how I feel about Mr. Ron Paul. He is so way above your league it's really silly to address...

[Darth_Budda]

Ron Paul is a smooth talker like Obama, the more i find out about him the less i like. i hate the fact that our money is backed b thin air, but you say look at history. okay, lets look at his idea of ending the federal reserve. it was done once under Andrew Jackson, it sent the country into the great depression of 1830, unless my date is off. Ron Paul is not a Jeffersonian but a Jacksonian. his economic ideas will only hurt the American worker.

i am 27, my generation does not feel entitled? we have been told our whole life we wold have to pay for the social security of the baby boomers yet we would receive nothing for our payments. we have seen all the jobs transferred over seas. uncontrolled immigration the has brought down our wages, all to boost the income of the rich with cheap labor. it's a basic capitalistic idea, the more surplus of any good lowers prices. i don't feel entitled i feel robed of my future. education prices have skyrocketed yet our pay has dropped.

what happened to the trust busting of Teddy Roosevelt? I would think he would consider most of these companies trusts. no business should be too big to fail. only the government should be too big to fail.