How to Visit Many without lying?

[krimster2]

Trench

don’t worry ‘bout it mate...
she speaks Russian, you speak something approximating English
so if her English level is not very high
the “bandwidth” for communication will be low anyway in this situation
certainly not enough for extensive verbal dialog

so you learn to communicate in other subtle ways
you buy her a gift, a sweater, a piece of jewelry
and then you look deep into her eyes and smile and say “cressiva”
while you touch her shoulder or cheek lightly, but only for a moment

then she does something back to you like this
this goes back and forth a few times slowly escalating
at some point you move in for your first kiss
all ya gotta do mate

what you really need to do
is to establish a rapport a connection
and you need to “disarm” her
you do it by being empathetic
to try and establish understanding and trust

you don’t need to learn how to be a talker
you need to learn how to be a lover
being English unfortunately is a huge handicap for you, sorry
and I say that with the greatest of affection for the English people

[Donna_Pedro]

Some people can talk endlessly for hours. I'm not one of those people. On some subjects I can talk a fair while but people who can talk endlessly for hours has always made me curious about how they manage it. It just seems like a strange phenomena to my mind.

Difficult, I agree. But we all understand that  communication is a key to success. If you want your long-distance reelationship to work - you need to communicate even when you do not want and even if she does not want. The way both of you   behave under this pressure is important too. Personally I treated it  as a job. Mostly pleasant, but sometimes annoying. It  clearly showed that we both were compatable even being under pressure. Mr. Pedro obviousely felt more confident about his visit and so was I. No woman wants to know that a man is visiting someone else. The same as when you are dating someone, you do not want to know that your girlfriend is dating someone else at the same time.  If a woman  chooses not to pressure this issue (stating all the "right thing about mens sexual needs") it talks a lot about her level of self- confidence.

[krimster2]

you better have a seat, because what I'm about to say may shock you!!!!
ok, ready?
alright, here goes!!!

"not everyone thinks the same way you do or has the same values you do"!!!

sorry, it seemed to me you weren't aware of this

[brownbeard99]

Okay, so I am basing a lot of my approach based on my domestic online dating experience, but I sometimes still struggle with what things are different and what things are the same.

In the US, I have found that you have to keep communicating with a girl at least every 2-3 days or they will forget about you or assume you did.  A few times, I made the mistake of asking a girl out on Sunday or Monday for the next Friday or Saturday.  I wouldn't talk to them again until the day of the date (I'm a busy guy and I figured, "What's the point? I already secured the date"), only to have them cancel or tell me they thought I lost interest.  Anyway, I would always have to manage perceptions and find the balance between looking needy and looking disinterested.

When I first started messaging FSU women, If I went a day without messaging them, many of them would send me a message saying "I guess you aren't interested."  I think having to talk every day is pretty excessive, especially in the beginning, but "when in Rome" I guess.  Is this the norm out there?  I didn't care about the ones I lost, but if I find someone I really like, I don't want to screw it up.

I also ask this because this girl I have been talking to video chats with me sometimes and makes plans to talk every day, but has been cancelling them.  My gut says to drop her like a bad habit... I wouldn't tolerate this with an American girl.. are Ukrainian women typically flaky like this?  I know women who will do this kind of thing as a game to test you to see how far they can push you. These kinds of games are exhausting....

[DaveNY]

Okay, so I am basing a lot of my approach based on my domestic online dating experience, but I sometimes still struggle with what things are different and what things are the same.

In the US, I have found that you have to keep communicating with a girl at least every 2-3 days or they will forget about you or assume you did.  A few times, I made the mistake of asking a girl out on Sunday or Monday for the next Friday or Saturday.  I wouldn't talk to them again until the day of the date (I'm a busy guy and I figured, "What's the point? I already secured the date"), only to have them cancel or tell me they thought I lost interest.  Anyway, I would always have to manage perceptions and find the balance between looking needy and looking disinterested.

When I first started messaging FSU women, If I went a day without messaging them, many of them would send me a message saying "I guess you aren't interested."  I think having to talk every day is pretty excessive, especially in the beginning, but "when in Rome" I guess.  Is this the norm out there?  I didn't care about the ones I lost, but if I find someone I really like, I don't want to screw it up.

I also ask this because this girl I have been talking to video chats with me sometimes and makes plans to talk every day, but has been cancelling them.  My gut says to drop her like a bad habit... I wouldn't tolerate this with an American girl.. are Ukrainian women typically flaky like this?  I know women who will do this kind of thing as a game to test you to see how far they can push you. These kinds of games are exhausting....

Don't know how old you are but now if you 'talking' with a woman it isn't just about talking in person or on the phone it's also about talking via texting and other means.

With the advent of texting communication has become far more intense. If you're dating a woman in her 20s or 30s I'd think you'd have to 'talk' to her in some way every day or every other day at a bare minimum.

If I'm at work my wife will text me several times a day and she's in her 40s. She thinks texting is great. If I'm out running errands she thinks nothing of texting me to pick up other stuff or what I want for dinner or to get the car filled with gas because she has to go out early in the morning. 

[ML]

are Ukrainian women typically flaky like this? 

Yes, most Ukrainian women are flaky; and so are most American women.

And so are most Ukrainian men and most American men.

It is a universal trait in this century.

[ML]

f I'm out running errands she thinks nothing of texting me to pick up other stuff or what I want for dinner or to get the car filled with gas because she has to go out early in the morning.

But if she doesn't know exactly where you are; how does she know where to send the text ?

[krimster2]

if you get flustered over every little "failed expectation" in this game
you are going to be in for a VERY hard time
and if the frustration is mounting over online interaction
what do you think will happen in person

look Bro' NONE of this has to do with the other person at all
it's all about YOU
and how you behave and process things
including failed expectations and frustration
deal with your anxiety and impatience before anything else
otherwise this ain't gonna work out for ya

[DaveNY]

But if she doesn't know exactly where you are; how does she know where to send the text ?

There's a very long string connecting our two phones.

[BillyB]

When I first started messaging FSU women, If I went a day without messaging them, many of them would send me a message saying "I guess you aren't interested."  I think having to talk every day is pretty excessive, especially in the beginning, but "when in Rome" I guess.  Is this the norm out there?  I didn't care about the ones I lost, but if I find someone I really like, I don't want to screw it up.

Girls who consider an international man are used to guys disappearing easily. Most men who write women overseas never get on a plane. If a woman likes you, she looks forward to hearing from you everyday. If you're not communicating with her everyday, she thinks you got more important things on your mind than her.

this girl I have been talking to video chats with me sometimes and makes plans to talk every day, but has been cancelling them.

She's got more important things on her mind than you.

Communicate with a bunch of ladies. You'll find you'll want to communicate with certain ladies more than others. Out of those ladies, some will find they want to communicate with one guy more than others and it may not be you. This has to be sorted out and hopefully you find a gal you're thrilled with and she's thrilled with you.

[msmob]

The difference is that Billy knows how to talk to FSW and what to say.

That's what he tells us ....     

Seriously, whether you're Mr Smooth talkin' or Netvous Ned - WMVM has the potential to go tits up

Cyprus has a population closer to a million, now - but this is a true story...

Back in 2003, two ethnic RU ladies were lying on the beach, chatted as ladies do and realised that they were about to be visited on a 'VO' by an American Gentleman

He had told each of them he was 'staying for a week' - a week apart..   He was arriving in three days..

They conspired to met him at the airport, together and I found out about their plan and persuaded them to 'confront' the bloke, online

He cancelled his 'trips' - but then he may never have arrived ?..

The moral of the story is .. surely clear ?



Right, Trechie... are you going to wise up and video-chat, first - or are you still a fan of 'blind dates' ?

[krimster2]

the journey of finding a Ukrainian wife
is surely a "thousand mile march"
so don't get so much anxiety
after taking the first step

hey GI
surely you have heard that the map is not the territory
everything online is just a map
a representation of the "real thing"

the real thing when you actually meet it
will be quite different from the map

[Donna_Pedro]

These kinds of games are exhausting....

Its true. Headgames are annoying. More so for  long-distance relationships. I am glad me and Mr. Pedro were of the same mind on this matter.    However I  always thought that if a aman is truely interested he would always find a minute of his time (even he is bery busy) to talk. If you are busy you dont need to sacrifice smth important to talk for an hour. But definately you can call, say hi and all the usual nicities, state the matter of urgency, promise to call tomorrow at the same time (with intent to keep it) and politely closeout for the day. 3-5 minutes of time.

[Donna_Pedro]

Yes, most Ukrainian women are flaky;

And they are all desperate by defibition. THere is war there! Women want out ASAP! They dont care how many of them you are going to see in one trip as long as you take one of them out of that mess.

[krimster2]

"And they are all desperate by defibition. THere is war there! Women want out ASAP! "

deavotchka slushet, no difference between them and you when you left Russia, please stop govoryashchiy that khernya, horrosho?

the time period you left Russia?
I remember it well
there was a deep financial crisis in Russia
the further away you were from Moscow
the worst things got
to the point where stores/kiosks in small towns
had NO MONEY
so I ALWAYS had to pay in exact change
to the relief and gratitude of the merchants
basically, the money flowed out of these places to Moscow and didn't come back in the post '98 financial collapse

but you could take THAT Russia of the late 90s
and compare it to today's Ukraine easily
despite your charming stories
you were every bit as desperate as today's Ukrainian women
the proof of the correctness of what I'm saying
is the fact that you are HERE
ponelle? eta pravda




 

[Trenchcoat]

Okay, so I am basing a lot of my approach based on my domestic online dating experience, but I sometimes still struggle with what things are different and what things are the same.

In the US, I have found that you have to keep communicating with a girl at least every 2-3 days or they will forget about you or assume you did.  A few times, I made the mistake of asking a girl out on Sunday or Monday for the next Friday or Saturday.  I wouldn't talk to them again until the day of the date (I'm a busy guy and I figured, "What's the point? I already secured the date"), only to have them cancel or tell me they thought I lost interest.  Anyway, I would always have to manage perceptions and find the balance between looking needy and looking disinterested.

When I first started messaging FSU women, If I went a day without messaging them, many of them would send me a message saying "I guess you aren't interested."  I think having to talk every day is pretty excessive, especially in the beginning, but "when in Rome" I guess.  Is this the norm out there?  I didn't care about the ones I lost, but if I find someone I really like, I don't want to screw it up.

I also ask this because this girl I have been talking to video chats with me sometimes and makes plans to talk every day, but has been cancelling them.  My gut says to drop her like a bad habit... I wouldn't tolerate this with an American girl.. are Ukrainian women typically flaky like this?  I know women who will do this kind of thing as a game to test you to see how far they can push you. These kinds of games are exhausting....

She's very unlikely to be testing you, not at this stage at least. There is likely to be a specific reason behind her cancelling. At a push I would say she is not that interested in you, possibly another guy local or international has taken up pole position with her. It happens, a girl I was interested in a few months back and was starting  to get a bit interested in well we seemed to be having enjoyable Viber messaging sessions. However, we were only communicating every 2-3 days with me nearly always kicking it off (I wondered why and off course this was not a great sign). Well it turns out there was a good reason why - she was already talking to another WM and told me they were communicating daily and hence couldn't continue further with me. I finished with her amicably as she had an understandable reason - she was just already much further on with another guy. Quite reasonably without feeling a much stronger urge for me she could hardly be expected to ditch the guy she had no doubt built up much rapport for some guy that had just come along.

So, to your question - Do you need to be messaging daily? If you are hot on her then yes. Skype varies depending on schedules, most & FSW won't do daily, probably once a week is more than enough, quite possibly even longer apart. Messaging can be problematic as FSW tend to have different styles. Some will continue with the messaging once started for hours on & off, some will message full on for a half hour or hour or so. If a girl doesn't respond back much then it is unlikely going to go far with that one. One girl I messaged recently used to get peeved if I broke it off first by saying I had to go to bed, even after an hour or so off messaging. She was very eager & enthusiastic to message me and the rapport looked good, I Skyped with her and it continued. So I went to meet her for a long weekend - there was no chemistry, lol, so we mutually & amicably decided to call it a day.

That's the problem of the 'Visit One' method, you WILL get tied into lengthy in depth communication before you even see each other in person physically on a visit. Some guys like this, for the first time out or so it's not a bad way to check out the country/city. I don't mind it but it's a lot of labour input which goes to waste the moment no chemistry is established on arrival, unless you are lucky and there is. Myself I'm past wanting to hear all about how biggles the cat is with some girl that will likely turn out to be someone I have no chemistry with, it's just very frustrating after a few goes at it on a VO. That's why I'm going to switch to a 'Visit Many' strategy for my next attempt.

[Trenchcoat]

That's what he tells us ....     

Seriously, whether you're Mr Smooth talkin' or Netvous Ned - WMVM has the potential to go tits up

Cyprus has a population closer to a million, now - but this is a true story...

Back in 2003, two ethnic RU ladies were lying on the beach, chatted as ladies do and realised that they were about to be visited on a 'VO' by an American Gentleman

He had told each of them he was 'staying for a week' - a week apart..   He was arriving in three days..

They conspired to met him at the airport, together and I found out about their plan and persuaded them to 'confront' the bloke, online

He cancelled his 'trips' - but then he may never have arrived ?..

The moral of the story is .. surely clear ?



Right, Trechie... are you going to wise up and video-chat, first - or are you still a fan of 'blind dates' ?

Yes, it's called not sticking you beek in other people's business Mobe, lol.

What exactly would these girls said/done to this guy on arrival? There's nothing wrong with meeting more than one woman. One of them on arrival may have found she was very suited to him or they may have both chatted to him and had a very amicable conversation, who knows where that may have led.

Thing is the Russian community in Cyprus is no doubt more aware of each other than they are in a large FSU city. Regardless though I would rather follow a process that stacked chance in my favour rather than get caught up on stuff that might go wrong and the downsides.

Rapport before meeting is good and girls mah flake on a guy they had little previous communication with but a blind date is not necessarily a problem, you just have to realise that all variety of people can turn up. Some will be my cup of tea, and some won't, vice versa, it's just the way it is.

[Trenchcoat]

And they are all desperate by definition. There is war there! Women want out ASAP! They dont care how many of them you are going to see in one trip as long as you take one of them out of that mess.

None of the women I have met in Ukraine seemed desperate to get out. Not so much so that they would commit themselves being with any guy to get out. One was even from Mariupol near the front line, she seemed in no hurry.

People on here tell me all the time that these FSW (Ukrainian girls, etc) don't need saving. Surprises me as the state their country is in - economy, civil conflict in the eastern Ukraine I would not know it. I hear there is some sort of unsteady cease fire there at the moment but if it all blew up like when it first started then perhaps these girls wouldn't think twice of turning away a WM into him or not, of course after they are saved they may see things differently.

[SteveInBoston]

Okay, so I am basing a lot of my approach based on my domestic online dating experience, but I sometimes still struggle with what things are different and what things are the same.

In the US, I have found that you have to keep communicating with a girl at least every 2-3 days or they will forget about you or assume you did.  A few times, I made the mistake of asking a girl out on Sunday or Monday for the next Friday or Saturday.  I wouldn't talk to them again until the day of the date (I'm a busy guy and I figured, "What's the point? I already secured the date"), only to have them cancel or tell me they thought I lost interest.  Anyway, I would always have to manage perceptions and find the balance between looking needy and looking disinterested.

When I first started messaging FSU women, If I went a day without messaging them, many of them would send me a message saying "I guess you aren't interested."  I think having to talk every day is pretty excessive, especially in the beginning, but "when in Rome" I guess.  Is this the norm out there?  I didn't care about the ones I lost, but if I find someone I really like, I don't want to screw it up.

I also ask this because this girl I have been talking to video chats with me sometimes and makes plans to talk every day, but has been cancelling them.  My gut says to drop her like a bad habit... I wouldn't tolerate this with an American girl.. are Ukrainian women typically flaky like this?  I know women who will do this kind of thing as a game to test you to see how far they can push you. These kinds of games are exhausting....

BB,

My search started similarly to yours.  I met several from a dating site, and started communicating to them via Whatsapp/Skype.

The 2 women I messaged on Skype were from Russia.  I maintained communication via email, and chatted when they were available.  Due to their work schedule, the time difference, and both were single moms, I only skyped with them twice a week.

There were 5 women or so I messaged on Whatsapp.  Two were...flaky.  One woman, who I was initially interested in, would message often in a day, then disappear for a while.  Two times I thought she wasn't interested, only to get a message from her out of the blue. 

Another lady on Whatsapp was difficult to communicate with.  Mostly one word responses, but she did keep in regular contact.

Only 2 women worked out in the end on Whatsapp.  One in Russia, one in Ukraine.  Initially the girl from Russia and I got along great: we messaged each other constantly and sent video and sound clips, and occasionally talked on video.   I got a 3 year multi entry visitor's visa and made plans to meet her in St Pete, but after a month of chatting she became very jealous.  Odd - we had not met yet...  I told her it wasn't working out and cancelled the trip.

The second woman on Whatsapp:  we started chatting casually, once every few days or so.  Then we chatted more, and I flew to meet her on the 3rd month.   I thought she was out of my league, and that perhaps she just wanted a casual fling.  That's how I set my expectations - if it worked out, great, if it didn't, then I'd have a week+ vacation in a new country with a local guide.   I found out later that she thought about the same - she didn't know if I was the "one" and treated it as a fun getaway with a foreign guy she liked.

Miraculously it worked out.  By the end of the week I knew she was the one, and she thought the same.  I know I lucked out, and that not everyone will have the same result.   But if you know yourself, know what you want, and treat it casual until you discover it's serious, you should have a great time.

Oh, and how to visit many without lying?  Well, it would not work with miss Whatsapp Russia, so I didn't pursue it.  Miss Ukraine, on the other hand, knew that I was probably keeping in contact with other women.  But without knowing me or falling for me, she kept things casual and just accepted me visiting her for a week.  I guess it would be awkward if she developed strong feelings for me and I didn't, but then she wouldn't be the "one" and it's best to move on, yes?

The ladies I chatted with on Skype?  I initially told them I was on a trip to Europe and wouldn't be available for a week, and they didn't push the matter.  After I was sure of Miss Ukraine, I messaged them both and told them I met someone that I believed was my match.  They both graciously wished me good luck with the relationship.

[krimster2]

girls in Crimea tell me instagram is THE APP to use today
it combines everything

[rwd123]

And they are all desperate by defibition. THere is war there! Women want out ASAP! They dont care how many of them you are going to see in one trip as long as you take one of them out of that mess.

Many, but not all.

Those who stayed in Syria were the very rich and very poor.

[brownbeard99]

BB,

My search started similarly to yours.  I met several from a dating site, and started communicating to them via Whatsapp/Skype.

The 2 women I messaged on Skype were from Russia.  I maintained communication via email, and chatted when they were available.  Due to their work schedule, the time difference, and both were single moms, I only skyped with them twice a week.

There were 5 women or so I messaged on Whatsapp.  Two were...flaky.  One woman, who I was initially interested in, would message often in a day, then disappear for a while.  Two times I thought she wasn't interested, only to get a message from her out of the blue. 

Another lady on Whatsapp was difficult to communicate with.  Mostly one word responses, but she did keep in regular contact.

Only 2 women worked out in the end on Whatsapp.  One in Russia, one in Ukraine.  Initially the girl from Russia and I got along great: we messaged each other constantly and sent video and sound clips, and occasionally talked on video.   I got a 3 year multi entry visitor's visa and made plans to meet her in St Pete, but after a month of chatting she became very jealous.  Odd - we had not met yet...  I told her it wasn't working out and cancelled the trip.

The second woman on Whatsapp:  we started chatting casually, once every few days or so.  Then we chatted more, and I flew to meet her on the 3rd month.   I thought she was out of my league, and that perhaps she just wanted a casual fling.  That's how I set my expectations - if it worked out, great, if it didn't, then I'd have a week+ vacation in a new country with a local guide.   I found out later that she thought about the same - she didn't know if I was the "one" and treated it as a fun getaway with a foreign guy she liked.

Miraculously it worked out.  By the end of the week I knew she was the one, and she thought the same.  I know I lucked out, and that not everyone will have the same result.   But if you know yourself, know what you want, and treat it casual until you discover it's serious, you should have a great time.

Oh, and how to visit many without lying?  Well, it would not work with miss Whatsapp Russia, so I didn't pursue it.  Miss Ukraine, on the other hand, knew that I was probably keeping in contact with other women.  But without knowing me or falling for me, she kept things casual and just accepted me visiting her for a week.  I guess it would be awkward if she developed strong feelings for me and I didn't, but then she wouldn't be the "one" and it's best to move on, yes?

The ladies I chatted with on Skype?  I initially told them I was on a trip to Europe and wouldn't be available for a week, and they didn't push the matter.  After I was sure of Miss Ukraine, I messaged them both and told them I met someone that I believed was my match.  They both graciously wished me good luck with the relationship.

Thanks for some good more good insight!

This whole approach is a work in progress as I go forward.... now I find myself in a similar situation mainly talking to two girls right now.  When I felt the first girl was blowing me off, I started talking more to another girl.  This second girl is really hot for me... too much so.  I think it’s becuase she is younger and not a real experienced dater. She had three degrees and spends most of her time working... I can tell, she is very bright, but kind of nerdy.  She doesn’t like to wear makeup, so I don’t think she gets much attention from a lot of guys... the little bit of attention I have given her has her falling for me.  I hate to toss her aside just because she likes me too much, but I really don’t want to break her heart if it doesn’t work out.

The problem really arose when the first girl came back around. It turns out she has a bad flu and she has been too sick to talk much.  She is back to talking to me regularly, so I will give her the benefit of the doubt and believe her (at least for now).

Both girls have offered to show me around for a week or so, even if it doesn’t work out romantically, so it’s tempting to do a VO trip so I can learn my way around... has anyone done a visit two trip?

To be honest with myself, I like the first girl I was talking with better, and I have seen the advice that I shouldn’t make plans with my #2 choice at all.  The thing is... I don’t even know if my #1 choice is realistic.  This girl is everything I want, plus she is extremely beautiful... I mean too beautiful.

I would hate to pass up on a good thing because I’m chasing after a girl who is not realistic.

[msmob]

That's the problem of the 'Visit One' method, you WILL get tied into lengthy in depth communication before you even see each other in person physically on a visit.

That's why I'm going to switch to a 'Visit Many' strategy for my next attempt.

There we have it... Trenchie's 'chemistry' is about the physical

[Donna_Pedro]

None of the women I have met in Ukraine seemed desperate to get out. Not so much so that they would commit themselves being with any guy to get out. One was even from Mariupol near the front line, she seemed in no hurry.

People on here tell me all the time that these FSW (Ukrainian girls, etc) don't need saving. Surprises me as the state their country is in - economy, civil conflict in the eastern Ukraine I would not know it. I hear there is some sort of unsteady cease fire there at the moment but if it all blew up like when it first started then perhaps these girls wouldn't think twice of turning away a WM into him or not, of course after they are saved they may see things differently.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quackslike a duck, then it probably is a duck. The country is at war. Full blown war with temporary cease fire periods and "people tell you these girls dont need saving?" PLease think logically.


[/size][/color]

None of the women I have met in Ukraine seemed desperate to get out

.
[/size]
"seemed" is a key word here.

[SteveInBoston]

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quackslike a duck, then it probably is a duck. The country is at war. Full blown war with temporary cease fire periods and "people tell you these girls dont need saving?" PLease think logically.


[/size][/color].
[/size]
"seemed" is a key word here.

Donna, please stop with this nonsense.  Have you been to Ukraine recently?