Russian Women Discussion
RWD Discussion Groups => Trip Reports => Topic started by: iloveukrayinkas on March 05, 2021, 02:04:33 AM
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Hello guys, so I finally decided to take a trip to the FSU, starting with Ukraine this year in APril.
I will be travelling solo for more than a week and although my plans were going there to
meet a beautiful ukrainian lady that I had met online, these plans had already started
crumbling down since mid december, and I knew something was fishy or not right, and she
literally ended ghosting me after Valentine's after sweet promises of love and relationship.
I said " IT!" (and perhaps also F* her!!) I'm going anyway, as I've seen videos on Youtube of guys picking up
hot Kiev girls on the street and other interesting material that you find online.
So not having a girl I can go to or one who will be waiting for me at the airport is something
that doesn't rob me any sleep.(although now I may have another ace up my sleeve ;) )
I think I can make my own contacts after all.
I've heard stories of guys who have literally regretted having a girl already waiting for them and just on their
way to the metro or another public place they saw other absolutely stunning lonely approachable
women they could literally just go and pick up. But because they were already "committed" to these
one or two ladies there, they stalled on those opportunities.
What do you experienced guys think about this and have you already had such experiences?
I'm being given an action plan from some of the guys here in the forum so that I don't just go as
a tourist and try to seize a couple opportunities for meeting real women while I'm there. Honestly
my main objective is tourism and field reconoissance mission. Anything more than that will be a huge plus!
I don't like tinder , nor fdating or elenas models that I have been advised to use. I'm even thinking going
to an agency like possible.ua that they arrange you dates on the spot and start researching from now
or just try good old cold approach pickup on the streets whenever I find interesting approachable prospects.
Any advice the veterans here can give?
Looking forward for some interesting replies from the other experienced guys here.
Cheers and i'll keep you posted!!
F.
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I think that good to be adventurous and to make and live your experiences.
But have you done a lot of spu at home? (spu = street pick up).
Spu is considered to be especially difficult by insiders.
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Your plan will lead to wasted money and vacation time on the trip, a lot of wandering the streets alone, and spending your nights in your room jerking off.
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Your plan will lead to wasted money and vacation time on the trip, a lot of wandering the streets alone, and spending your nights in your room jerking off.
Was that your experience?
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Was that your experience?
You are well aware of my experiences.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0
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You are well aware of my experiences.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0
Of course I am. All of your experiences from all of your nicks. You are likely the most experienced poster on this or any other forum bar none but that doesn't make you clairvoyant either. Help the chap rather than rain on his parade and degrade. His plan will succeed or fail based on his abilities, not yours
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Of course I am. All of your experiences from all of your nicks. You are likely the most experienced poster on this or any other forum bar none but that doesn't make you clairvoyant either. Help the chap rather than rain on his parade and degrade. His plan will succeed or fail based on his abilities, not yours
You are right that we should strive to help newcomers.
But, as you know, it gets tedious to have to repeat the same advice over and over again.
Anyway, this new guy should get the hint to look at the thread that I posted above.
Sure, some of the websites listed there at the beginning may be out of date, but by reading the entire thread the newer sites can be seen.
Also my approach was based entirely on email correspondence. I note from the latest info posted here in other threads that the guys and gals have moved on to phone applications.
So the procedures I lay out probably have to be modified somewhat to be viable.
Glad I don't have to go through this search process again !!!
If current wife dumps me . . . I will be content to go and live in a mountain top cabin and watch nature. Life has been good to me. I may not have done it all . . . but I have done enough.
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You are right that we should strive to help newcomers.
But, as you know, it gets tedious to have to repeat the same advice over and over again.
Anyway, this new guy should get the hint to look at the thread that I posted above.
Sure, some of the websites listed there at the beginning may be out of date, but by reading the entire thread the newer sites can be seen.
Also my approach was based entirely on email correspondence. I note from the latest info posted here in other threads that the guys and gals have moved on to phone applications.
So the procedures I lay out probably have to be modified somewhat to be viable.
Glad I don't have to go through this search process again !!!
If current wife dumps me . . . I will be content to go and live in a mountain top cabin and watch nature. Life has been good to me. I may not have done it all . . . but I have done enough.
Excellent! I knew you could (Mr. Rogers voice). The fact is, both of our (yours and mine) experiences are over a decade old. Email was the technology of the day over snail mail and catalogs which many others who have graced this forum started with. Skype hadn't really been an issue at this time but certainly did begin to be until well after I had traveled to Russia the first time.
My search started on Elena's Models, went to email and telephone. I actually remember when the texting issues internationally were worked out and it became easy to do as well. Much has changed since then with the apps and ways to travel and meet women. Our ways are ancient but that doesn't we can't contribute something other than negativity. Accept that the old ways are just that.
Although ILoveUkrainyas has been around awhile many of the last few (as few as they are) coming to find info have been met with a virtual kick to the teeth. Solid advice good and bad as much as we can offer is what we're here for, no?
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What age are you and what age are you looking for?
Most ladies cruising around town on Friday nights were younger, under 25.
Are you looking for a "10" or what? Are you a "10" or what?
Always good to have a few contacts before you go.
But I haven't been looking for almost 20 years...
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Your plan will lead to wasted money and vacation time on the trip, a lot of wandering the streets alone, and spending your nights in your room jerking off.
ML, why do all your comments relate in some way to money???
From your approach to this international dating, seems you did profit/loss analysis on prospective woman.... how romantic!!! Is this approach also used in marriage, I hope not.
Can't one just have an enjoyable day with whoever, maybe buy a dinner and have good time?
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Hello guys, so I finally decided to take a trip to the FSU, starting with Ukraine this year in APril.
I will be travelling solo for more than a week and although my plans were going there to
meet a beautiful ukrainian lady that I had met online, these plans had already started
crumbling down since mid december, and I knew something was fishy or not right, and she
literally ended ghosting me after Valentine's after sweet promises of love and relationship.
I said " IT!" (and perhaps also F* her!!) I'm going anyway, as I've seen videos on Youtube of guys picking up
hot Kiev girls on the street and other interesting material that you find online.
So not having a girl I can go to or one who will be waiting for me at the airport is something
that doesn't rob me any sleep.(although now I may have another ace up my sleeve ;) )
I think I can make my own contacts after all.
I've heard stories of guys who have literally regretted having a girl already waiting for them and just on their
way to the metro or another public place they saw other absolutely stunning lonely approachable
women they could literally just go and pick up. But because they were already "committed" to these
one or two ladies there, they stalled on those opportunities.
What do you experienced guys think about this and have you already had such experiences?
I'm being given an action plan from some of the guys here in the forum so that I don't just go as
a tourist and try to seize a couple opportunities for meeting real women while I'm there. Honestly
my main objective is tourism and field reconoissance mission. Anything more than that will be a huge plus!
I don't like tinder , nor fdating or elenas models that I have been advised to use. I'm even thinking going
to an agency like possible.ua that they arrange you dates on the spot and start researching from now
or just try good old cold approach pickup on the streets whenever I find interesting approachable prospects.
Any advice the veterans here can give?
Looking forward for some interesting replies from the other experienced guys here.
Cheers and i'll keep you posted!!
F.
Sorry you ended up in your situation. I never put all my apples in one basket, unless all info and correspondence was 100% positive( speaking everyday)..... over at least 2-3 months.
I wouldn't put much hope on picking up girls on street cold. Language issues would be a problem and if you met someone interesting, it normally doesn't go anywhere or at worst you get used. I have heard guys say that picking up is easy, take that with a grain of salt, I think it is more talk than anything.
If you arrange with an agency to meet a girl, chances are girl is not really interested. You pay agency $50-$60 dollars each girl for introduction and 1 hour. If girl finds you interesting, maybe you will get more time. Do this ONLY if you are depressed!!))
If alone do something that interests you, something touristy, bars, restaurants, museums or people watching........ in Kiev on Khreshchatyk, in Kharkiv on Sumskya and in Odessa on Deribasovskya or walk to the beach( 25 minutes from center) I know some nice places to rent in Kharkiv and Odessa. Owners are 100% legit. They are in dobovo. I know much more about Odessa!!))
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I am a vivid example of a guy who has dated many girls from agencies.
And married one for five years.But the fact is less than 5% of agencies are kind to deliver what they are intended to.
And 5% is already optimistic.
On 50 women I met the only one who tried to push me in a supermarket to buy, what a surprise, a phone. Not the aka China version of a model for a museum, you guess what it was about...So if you look closely at it, it was less than 2%.
But true, the game is shifting, and the business is moving from the traditional way to more geolocalised applications.
The niches will stay alive, but the big guys are eating some others.
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Looking forward for some interesting replies from the other experienced guys here.
Cheers and i'll keep you posted!!
F.
They have a major Mail order bride (MOB) Wallet Fleecing industry (WFI) in
Odessa, Nikolaev and Kiev.
If I were going to Ukrainia I would go to Dnepropetrovsk and maybe Zaporizhzhia.
They are close together and don't have the vast WFI organization and infrastructure
that you will find in the cities you are planning to visit.
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You are right that we should strive to help newcomers.
But, as you know, it gets tedious to have to repeat the
same advice over and over again.
It's a story that has been repeated by many over the years.
That's how the married guys got the nickname OMB's for
Old Married Bastard's the cantankerous old farts who had
seen this, done that and still wear the faded tee shirt.
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Hello guys, so I finally decided to take a trip to the FSU, starting with Ukraine this year in APril.
I will be travelling solo for more than a week and although my plans were going there to
meet a beautiful ukrainian lady that I had met online, these plans had already started
crumbling down since mid december, and I knew something was fishy or not right, and she
literally ended ghosting me after Valentine's after sweet promises of love and relationship.
I said " IT!" (and perhaps also F* her!!) I'm going anyway, as I've seen videos on Youtube of guys picking up
hot Kiev girls on the street and other interesting material that you find online.
So not having a girl I can go to or one who will be waiting for me at the airport is something
that doesn't rob me any sleep.(although now I may have another ace up my sleeve ;) )
I think I can make my own contacts after all.
I've heard stories of guys who have literally regretted having a girl already waiting for them and just on their
way to the metro or another public place they saw other absolutely stunning lonely approachable
women they could literally just go and pick up. But because they were already "committed" to these
one or two ladies there, they stalled on those opportunities.
What do you experienced guys think about this and have you already had such experiences?
I'm being given an action plan from some of the guys here in the forum so that I don't just go as
a tourist and try to seize a couple opportunities for meeting real women while I'm there. Honestly
my main objective is tourism and field reconoissance mission. Anything more than that will be a huge plus!
I don't like tinder , nor fdating or elenas models that I have been advised to use. I'm even thinking going
to an agency like possible.ua that they arrange you dates on the spot and start researching from now
or just try good old cold approach pickup on the streets whenever I find interesting approachable prospects.
Any advice the veterans here can give?
Looking forward for some interesting replies from the other experienced guys here.
Cheers and i'll keep you posted!!
F.
ILU you sound like me lol, at least what you propose is what I did in a summer trip to Kiev, Ukraine back in 2019, so pretty recent but just before we new anything about the virus. So remember even if you go after getting the vaccine many Ukrainians may not be and personally I wouldn't go before at least getting one coronavirus vaccine jab the hospital situation out there I would not want to end up in. Anyway I did a trip report at the time which will be under that section, can't remember what I called it but will post a link here if I get the time.
Anyway, yes essentially what ML says is true but I think part of what you say is true also. I went there on the basis to do some recon etc. Now some people will write that off as wasting time, I don't, maybe I should have done that to begin with rather than 3-4 years into this venture. It's surprising what you can learn about a place and its people by just looking and analysing what is going on, how people dress, what age groups are dating, who is dating who, stuff that stand out of the ordinary, affluency or otherwise, etc, etc. None of this is a waste of time in my view, some will scoff and say you didn't meet anyone but if you discover stuff about the place you are going to meet girls and how they are it's all money well spent to my mind.
That said PUA is particularly hard in the FSU, you may have seen videos of guys on YouTube doing it but trust me unless you are a particularly outgoing guy it's a difficult way about it. Sure I get what you are saying about guys seeing girls on the way to meet their girl etc, that can be partly true that they see a girl that they would rather crack onto than the one they are going to meet BUT they know nothing about that girl, if she is single, if she finds him attractive, does she have kids, dies she want to date a foreigner, does she speak good enough English to even understand him? etc, etc. So chances are that PUA probably won't work well for most guys. I discovered a couple of ways a PUA approach might work in a more subtle way but never really got the chance to use it. In general where I was in the city centre in Kiev the scene didn't often lend itself well to PUA as might sometimes be thought generally down to people seemingly more self absorbed in what they are doing and so not really being open to it so much.
Faux Pas brings up the issue of how dating methods have changed over time, they have but I believe that now there are many ways to meet a girl. The new methods haven't so much replaced the old but have added to them as additional ways to meet a girl. So it's now very much a case a great variety of paths from which to choose to try to find a girl to date. ML's write many, visit many approach could still be used today I reckon but you really need big cities like Moscow, St. Pete's or possibly Kiev to carry it off in, or be willing to travel a lot in a short space of time. In general I would say it's not an easy one for most newbies to pull off as it takes a lot of understanding and delicacy in terms of understanding the approach and how to execute it. One or two mistakes with the execution of it and it won't work out well in my opinion.
ILU, the sources you have been given to use are probably the best out there but that is if you wish to use that method to find a girl. In general for the everyday looking guy even they are not likely to be the easiest ride. It usually took me a few months at a time to source one decent girl to go visit off them by which I mean where she corresponds back to me regularly is interested in me visiting her and does not come across as a scammer. Many of the girl's I contacted off them the communication didn't last long due to lack of interest in her part so it takes time and perseverance. Even then on meeting there may be no chemistry with the girl or she may have alterior motives for wanting to meet. Tinder I hear only works well in big cities also and I've never tried it in them. To date I've not really been a tinder sort of guy.
If the methods suggested ILU aren't working for you and you don't like the sound of preserving with them then I think looking into other methods isn't a bad idea. I'm not saying they will turn out with a better outcome than the methods listed but I think some methods work better for some than other methods better for others. I think in a lot of cases though whatever method you choose you need to be on the ball, do your homework and realise that often it's not a choose method press play thing but something where there are often skill and learning needing to be done and used in order to get a good result. I've heard off guys using methods that are normally seen as no go bad methods to use but they come up trumps as they understand the mechanics of how it all works and can manipulate it to their needs with a bit of skill.
In your early days though I think a trip for tourism and recon is not a bad idea to give you feet on the ground knowledge of the situation. It doesn't need to be for long probably better if not for a whole week or more. Otherwise I think it's difficult to move in country and use different methods if your not really familiar with how things move in that country if you know what I mean.
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So not having a girl I can go to or one who will be waiting for me at the airport is something
that doesn't rob me any sleep.(although now I may have another ace up my sleeve ;) )
I think I can make my own contacts after all.
I've heard stories of guys who have literally regretted having a girl already waiting for them and just on their
way to the metro or another public place they saw other absolutely stunning lonely approachable
women they could literally just go and pick up. But because they were already "committed" to these
one or two ladies there, they stalled on those opportunities.
What do you experienced guys think about this and have you already had such experiences?
You could still contact women in the city you're going to visit before you visit. It's nice to have a go to girl or girls instead of going there starting with the backup plan. Most ladies on the street aren't looking to relocate to a new country. In the past, I wrote a trip report and said I could get three phone numbers everyday talking to women on the street. I could've gotten more if I weren't busy dating the women I just talked to.
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I agree with BillyB that having someone on the ground will help.
As for picking up women, if you have experience in recognizing a woman's interest it is possible. I remember on my trip to Kiev once we established there was not enough chemistry the girl I visited we were walking along, and she told that girl there is checking you out, do you want me to introduce you?
If you do not like traditional sites, make profiles on Odnoklassniki and VKontakte, check for local dating groups in the area you will visit.
Further, do not put pressure on yourself. Enjoy visiting the country and the sites, and do not expect girls throwing themselves at you on every corner, unless you wear a shirt that says 'rich gullible idiot'.Which might acrually wor. :P
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I may be repeating what others have stated -
- One week is not long enough for WNVM. If you have other reasons to travel that is fine, just don't expect anything compelling to happen.
- If you don't pick up women on the street in your home town, FORGET about doing it internationally.
- Unless you have time and money to burn this is not a good plan for meeting women.
- Age/demographics is important. Hard to provide specific advice without more information.
- Depending on your age Tinder is a good option. Just don't communicate with women months in advance.
- You sound desperate. Don't even think about chasing women in a foreign country if you're lonely and/or desperate.
- Agencies in 2021 are for desperate men.
You are fantasizing and have no grip on reality.
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I agree with BillyB that having someone on the ground will help.
As for picking up women, if you have experience in recognizing a woman's interest it is possible. I remember on my trip to Kiev once we established there was not enough chemistry the girl I visited we were walking along, and she told that girl there is checking you out, do you want me to introduce you?
If you do not like traditional sites, make profiles on Odnoklassniki and VKontakte, check for local dating groups in the area you will visit.
Further, do not put pressure on yourself. Enjoy visiting the country and the sites, and do not expect girls throwing themselves at you on every corner, unless you wear a shirt that says 'rich gullible idiot'.Which might acrually wor. :P
That's great advice Shadow. I too admitted to the girl I met in Minsk that there was no chemistry. I could see she had none for me and me while she was nearly dressed and pleasant looking and nice enough girl I didn't have any for her. Worse our personalities were almost complete polar opposites lol not in quite every respect though I guess. Anyway, I got different to you, she proceeded in telling me where I was talking down (at least with her and probably other women also). I didn't mind as I would rather someone tell me where I am going wrong and fix it than carry on oblivious to it all and keep falling short.
Anyway, I think for certain as you found its definitely a good idea to be upfront with a girl about it especially if you can feel she isn't interested as well. As your story shows it can have beneficial results. I tend to find myself though in Ukraine I don't get eyed up a lot, I getting older now of course and I'm not sure if my look resonates that well there, I'm not Muslim or anything though. Just worth ILU noting that unless he looks like Brad Pitt he may not get much action on a street PUA approach.
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- You sound desperate. Don't even think about chasing women in a foreign country if you're lonely and/or desperate.
- Agencies in 2021 are for desperate men.
You are fantasizing and have no grip on reality.
He may be, but that is unlikely to change unless he finds someone. Thing for him to do may be to get on Fdate and contact one or more of the least attractive looking profiles on there, someone who goes on there reasonably regularly. He could have way better odds of her being interested. He could tell her up front that he just wants to meet as friends first and see how it goes, indeed he could state that on his profile. That way when he gets there he could have a cheap tour guide already lined up and at least meet a decent woman who can show him around. That he can then use as a spring board to advance further however things develop. Many girls are lonely there also and would relish the chance for some company I reckon and both of them may end up having good fun even if just good friends.
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ILU you sound like me lol, at least what you propose is what I did in a summer trip to Kiev, Ukraine back in 2019, so pretty recent but just before we new anything about the virus. So remember even if you go after getting the vaccine many Ukrainians may not be and personally I wouldn't go before at least getting one coronavirus vaccine jab the hospital situation out there I would not want to end up in. Anyway I did a trip report at the time which will be under that section, can't remember what I called it but will post a link here if I get the time.
Anyway, yes essentially what ML says is true but I think part of what you say is true also. I went there on the basis to do some recon etc. Now some people will write that off as wasting time, I don't, maybe I should have done that to begin with rather than 3-4 years into this venture. It's surprising what you can learn about a place and its people by just looking and analysing what is going on, how people dress, what age groups are dating, who is dating who, stuff that stand out of the ordinary, affluency or otherwise, etc, etc. None of this is a waste of time in my view, some will scoff and say you didn't meet anyone but if you discover stuff about the place you are going to meet girls and how they are it's all money well spent to my mind.
That said PUA is particularly hard in the FSU, you may have seen videos of guys on YouTube doing it but trust me unless you are a particularly outgoing guy it's a difficult way about it. Sure I get what you are saying about guys seeing girls on the way to meet their girl etc, that can be partly true that they see a girl that they would rather crack onto than the one they are going to meet BUT they know nothing about that girl, if she is single, if she finds him attractive, does she have kids, dies she want to date a foreigner, does she speak good enough English to even understand him? etc, etc. So chances are that PUA probably won't work well for most guys. I discovered a couple of ways a PUA approach might work in a more subtle way but never really got the chance to use it. In general where I was in the city centre in Kiev the scene didn't often lend itself well to PUA as might sometimes be thought generally down to people seemingly more self absorbed in what they are doing and so not really being open to it so much.
Faux Pas brings up the issue of how dating methods have changed over time, they have but I believe that now there are many ways to meet a girl. The new methods haven't so much replaced the old but have added to them as additional ways to meet a girl. So it's now very much a case a great variety of paths from which to choose to try to find a girl to date. ML's write many, visit many approach could still be used today I reckon but you really need big cities like Moscow, St. Pete's or possibly Kiev to carry it off in, or be willing to travel a lot in a short space of time. In general I would say it's not an easy one for most newbies to pull off as it takes a lot of understanding and delicacy in terms of understanding the approach and how to execute it. One or two mistakes with the execution of it and it won't work out well in my opinion.
ILU, the sources you have been given to use are probably the best out there but that is if you wish to use that method to find a girl. In general for the everyday looking guy even they are not likely to be the easiest ride. It usually took me a few months at a time to source one decent girl to go visit off them by which I mean where she corresponds back to me regularly is interested in me visiting her and does not come across as a scammer. Many of the girl's I contacted off them the communication didn't last long due to lack of interest in her part so it takes time and perseverance. Even then on meeting there may be no chemistry with the girl or she may have alterior motives for wanting to meet. Tinder I hear only works well in big cities also and I've never tried it in them. To date I've not really been a tinder sort of guy.
If the methods suggested ILU aren't working for you and you don't like the sound of preserving with them then I think looking into other methods isn't a bad idea. I'm not saying they will turn out with a better outcome than the methods listed but I think some methods work better for some than other methods better for others. I think in a lot of cases though whatever method you choose you need to be on the ball, do your homework and realise that often it's not a choose method press play thing but something where there are often skill and learning needing to be done and used in order to get a good result. I've heard off guys using methods that are normally seen as no go bad methods to use but they come up trumps as they understand the mechanics of how it all works and can manipulate it to their needs with a bit of skill.
In your early days though I think a trip for tourism and recon is not a bad idea to give you feet on the ground knowledge of the situation. It doesn't need to be for long probably better if not for a whole week or more. Otherwise I think it's difficult to move in country and use different methods if your not really familiar with how things move in that country if you know what I mean.
Could someone condense this blurb into a few paragraphs that make some sense. :cluebat:
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What do you experienced guys think about this and have you already had such experiences?
I am in sales, I've asked women out by walking up to them in the
US and in the FSU. One time I was on a date with a very hot Russian
woman but I could see that there was no way that things were going
to work out with her, but our waitress was all the way cute and had a
spark in her eye.
So when the date was over I sent off the hot Russian gal in a taxi then
walked back in and asked the cute little waitress on a date. The cute
little waitress and I ended up rolling around on the bed in my apartment
then she told me she was married
(http://www.ladbible.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=720,quality=70,format=jpeg,fit=pad,dpr=1/https%3A%2F%2Fs3-images.ladbible.com%2Fs3%2Fcontent%2F6e0957825fd33e6b6eea345eb8f5fd0b.png)
Immediately I got her out of my apartment. On a different trip I talked to the
cutest little gal at a Pizza place on New Years eve and I asked her out and we
had fun, fun, fun but she was too young for me. We had a blast ringing in the
New Year.
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The cute little waitress and I ended up rolling around on the bed in my apartment
then she told me she was married
That's just not right !!!
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That's just not right !!!
I did NOT know she was married until she told me while in her underwear.
I stopped what was about to happen and got her out of my apartment.
She should have told me BEFORE taking most of her clothes off.
Tab A did not go into Slot B
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ILU, what 2tallbill didn't tell you in the above is that he is above average in looks, he's posted up a pic here in the past and a likeness to Bill Clinton was mentioned lol.
I'm not saying an everyday average looking guy couldn't get a result on the street even if he wasn't socially that great with a girl who was giving him the eye. The odds are likely to be a whole lot less though so as you see what method works for one doesn't necessarily work as well for another.
If you're having problems getting girls up on Fdate then chances are you aren't an above average looking guy, most guys aren't most are average looking. That's ok as it's not like we get a choice but it means you're going to have to think harder about how you go about this venture.
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I did NOT know she was married until she told me while in her underwear.
I stopped what was about to happen and got her out of my apartment.
She should have told me BEFORE taking most of her clothes off.
Tab A did not go into Slot B
OK, then all is forgiven. I added appropriate points back into your column.
Actually you might have unknowingly had relations with one or more married women.
They have a feeling over there (in FSU) that if the marriage is over in a commitment sense, then they are free to cavort, even if divorce not finalized or even started.
This developed from fact that all people were assigned to living quarters. After a divorce, the two persons often went back to living together in the same quarters . . . until alternative living quarters could be assigned to one of the parties.
(And sometimes sex continued between the two; sometimes forced)
Thus, the parties often delayed divorce proceedings until separate living quarters could be obtained. But they then began (if not before) to act as unmarried persons . . . and they wouldn't necessarily tell all new partners their legal marriage status.
Note: I encountered a few instances where, if original apartment were large enough, construction was undertaken to develop two apartments out of the original. I declined to meet the ex-husband in those cases !!!
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OK, then all is forgiven. I added appropriate points back into your column.
Actually you might have unknowingly had relations with one or more married women.
They have a feeling over there (in FSU) that if the marriage is over in a commitment sense, then they are free to cavort, even if divorce not finalized or even started.
This developed from fact that all people were assigned to living quarters. After a divorce, the two persons often went back to living together in the same quarters . . . until alternative living quarters could be assigned to one of the parties.
(And sometimes sex continued between the two; sometimes forced)
Thus, the parties often delayed divorce proceedings until separate living quarters could be obtained. But they then began (if not before) to act as unmarried persons . . . and they wouldn't necessarily tell all new partners their legal marriage status.
Note: I encountered a few instances where, if original apartment were large enough, construction was undertaken to develop two apartments out of the original. I declined to meet the ex-husband in those cases !!!
+1 good post
-
Of course I am. All of your experiences from all of your nicks. You are likely the most experienced poster on this or any other forum bar none but that doesn't make you clairvoyant either. Help the chap rather than rain on his parade and degrade. His plan will succeed or fail based on his abilities, not yours
Thanks for backing me up there Faux, very nice, you turned the tables and with humor as well! That shot surely
backfired there hahaha >:( >:( >:( >:(
however I think I can also stand up for myself too, I just hadn't read any of the
responses to my post yet.
So first of all, I asked for advice, not straight CRITICISM to my plans!
The problem I see with many people is they rush into giving advice without listening the whole story first.
Faux is right, I don't think anyone here is clairvoyant, and even if they said they were I would be highly skeptical
as most if not all of these people are HUGE FRAUDSTERS anyway.
Also my plan is not to go there and spend all day chasing tail going street pickup or day game, I'm an old PU veteran
and I prefer hunting sitting down like a lion. Of course, there is always, that one special lady that completely alters
your whole reality and makes you break your own rules.
I don't know how I "sound desperate" in any part of my post. If you actually read English you would see that, since
my original plans of meeting a specific lady there went south my
main objective now is TOURISM, not street pickup, not tinder, or the like. Those are things I can do if I want to,
and like one person also said, 1 week may not be enough to be able to pull in that country.
And even that is not the whole story! Truth is there is another interesting lady I am meeting in Kharkov and she is
really interested in meeting me in person. I talk to her over the phone and Telegram. So it's not like she was my Plan B
(that'd be an insult to her) I just took good advice before embarking
into this journey and was actually communicating with other 5 or 6 ladies at the same time lol, I couldn't just stop only for 1 girl!
Specially when it's international dating! Are you kidding me? So that's basically my secondary objective in all this.
Still, no matter what the "all wise" ML might say, no amount of posts or hours of lecture on Ukraine and the FSU
can replace the actual first hand visit to that country. I will certainly have a new worldview and I will have my
own interactions and experience, be them what you would call SUCCESS or FAILURE, but in the end they are
all Successes for the one who knows(Read Failing Forward by John C Maxwell if you don't know).
Who says you have to be a 10 to be with a 10?? That one of the most ridiculous advice I've heard on dating.
Actually most the guys I've seen with 10's are not male models or the like, most women don't fall for looks
and I've seen plenty of examples of this my entire life!
ALso, it is very true about email and the ways FSU ladies used to communicate with foreigners. With modern
technologies that let you actually see your potential partner real time, one would be foolish or just plain
outdated not to use them. IM apps such as Telegram and Whatsapp are becoming the norm(although people are now
leaving whapp as well because of espionage) all which are tied to your current cell phone number and few
young women actually still "write letters". It's mostly very short messages that if you don't know how to play it
you will get ghosted pretty fast even if you managed to get her real number.
I'm communicating with another young girl from Belarus and she writes me just short messages on the email and I
mostly do chat with her.
And yes, *John Gaunts post does seem like reading the Old testament! LOL And this post as well, but just
because I'm responding to most of the participants!
Lastly, you are a man of few words Patagonie! Thanks for visiting here :welcome:
*Trenchcoat that is. But he is a nice guy , Ill read him when I have more time ;)
-
ILU, we can only go on the information you tell us at the time. We assume that is all the information to go on since you didn't tell us there was anymore. If you have other women to meet then go meet those other women. If you want to do tourism beforehand then that's your choice. Tourism in Ukraine is best in Kiev or possibly Lviv depending on taste to my knowledge. Odessa is ok but few other places are geared to tourism for foreigners that is. Not to say there isn't places to visit but often it's not that straight forward.
ML's comments weren't so much about having a dig in my view though they may seem that way to new members. What he says can be true if in a place by yourself there can be a lonely element to it but it is not so bad depending upon the person and mood. Some people can get very depressed in such a situation others can still go out learn, enjoy stuff, enjoy time away in another place even if a slightly lonely feeling. Anyway, I would say book yourself in a trip with the girls you want to meet and any other down time and go do it as soon as circumstances allow. Let us know how it goes :)
-
As I mentioned tourism is a good idea, but if you have a prospect, drop the tourism.If you are going for one week, just let the meeting go as it goes. If there is no chemistry, tell her and see if he can still be your tour guide. If there is, get to know as much of her life as possible. The tourist traps will not disappear.
-
I may be repeating what others have stated -
- One week is not long enough for WNVM. If you have other reasons to travel that is fine, just don't expect anything compelling to happen.
One week is not optimal. I like ten day trips so that I can get two weekends
with boots on the ground getting a little more bang for my buck. Once a guy
makes his first trip he can start figuring out how things work and don't work
in the field.
This is why things almost never work out the first time.
I completely agree with setting goals, planning and preparation but nothing
is more valuable than experience.
"No plan of operations reaches with any certainty beyond the first encounter
with the enemy's main force."
Kriegsgechichtliche Einzelschriften (1880)
Once a guy gets a little bit of "combat experience" he can start
processing various strategies and tactics. Right now everything is theory
Everything we tell him when he gets back from his first trip will be easier for
him to process.
"Strategy is a system of expedients; it is more than a mere scholarly discipline.
It is the translation of knowledge to practical life, the improvement of the original
leading thought in accordance with continually changing situations."
Helmuth von Moltke the Elder 1870
-
This is why things almost never work out the first time.
Usually due to unrealistic expectations.
I remember one guy here that like hiking and rock climbing. He found a Russian lady online that
also liked that. His first meetup worked out perfectly, it seemed. No need to look any further.
At the other end of the spectrum is the guy that thinks Ms Right will magically pop up on the
street somewhere. I would say this type has about a 2% chance of working out as well
as the above guy.
-
Usually due to unrealistic expectations.
American men who have never been to the FSU aren't very likely to have
realistic expectations or know how things work.
The OP is started talking about using PUA type moves which might have worked
some for him in the USA. What he doesn't realize is that 98% of FSU single men
over a certain age are already experienced PUA types and it will have upside down
and backwards results there compared to here.
A hunded years ago I had some friends who were a little better than mediocre basketball
players. They wanted me to join their team to play in a tournament that I had played
in before. I told them that they were going to be eaten alive because the competition
was far too good for them to compete with.
They had to go to the tournament, get destroyed and eliminated for them to understand.
I told them about a number of other tournaments that catered to B and C level players
and they joined a bunch of them and had a fantastic time at it, but they needed to get
their noses bloodied first before they would listen.
Once the OP goes over there he will get some experience and then have a different
perspective than he does now. What works with single women in the USA and what
would work for a foreigner in the FSU are two totally different things.
Everybody knows a guy with an Aussie/English/New Zealand/French accent with very
average looks and capabilities might have some success with American woman because
he is a little bit different. That guy can still f#ck it up but he gets a foot in the door
because he is a little bit unique.
Americans have a chance in the FSU because they are perceived as being a little bit
different. He needs to work that unique perception bit rather than try to show that
he has the worst part of FSU men, but not as good at the language, or as young, fit
or as good looking.
-
So first of all, I asked for advice, not straight CRITICISM to my plans!
When you ask for free advice you will get all sorts of advice. Some of it will be excellent,
some of it good, some of it cryptic, some of it will be more dubious.
It's also somewhat common that the more experienced men who been successful and
have seen a dozen guys crash and burn spectacularly are less patient with newbies
and can occasionally come off as highly critical.
You will also get some crappy advice from guys who don't know what they are talking
about. It's your job to sift though the advice and determine what is good and what is
not and above all not to get offended. Anybody who has ever had a Russian wife or
girl friend will tell you that you need to grow a fairly thick skin.
Udachi!
Bill
-
you made a hard choice. i'm sure it was very hard. but moral.
I did NOT know she was married until she told me while in her underwear.
I stopped what was about to happen and got her out of my apartment.
She should have told me BEFORE taking most of her clothes off.
Tab A did not go into Slot B
-
ILU, we can only go on the information you tell us at the time. We assume that is all the information to go on since you didn't tell us there was anymore. If you have other women to meet then go meet those other women. If you want to do tourism beforehand then that's your choice. Tourism in Ukraine is best in Kiev or possibly Lviv depending on taste to my knowledge. Odessa is ok but few other places are geared to tourism for foreigners that is. Not to say there isn't places to visit but often it's not that straight forward.
ML's comments weren't so much about having a dig in my view though they may seem that way to new members. What he says can be true if in a place by yourself there can be a lonely element to it but it is not so bad depending upon the person and mood. Some people can get very depressed in such a situation others can still go out learn, enjoy stuff, enjoy time away in another place even if a slightly lonely feeling. Anyway, I would say book yourself in a trip with the girls you want to meet and any other down time and go do it as soon as circumstances allow. Let us know how it goes :)
Regardless of what you say about MLM, he is definitely not a friend of mine or someone close so that he can be making those crass statements about a person who he know so little about. So joke's on HIM!
Other than that I can just tell you that such post you are suggesting would be a very long read which would get very few hits and which would only tire the reader. You can even see that on a long reply that you added on this post in which the person said that he wanted someone to condense it all so he could make sense of all that "blurb" as he calls it.
-
Usually due to unrealistic expectations.
I remember one guy here that like hiking and rock climbing. He found a Russian lady online that
also liked that. His first meetup worked out perfectly, it seemed. No need to look any further.
At the other end of the spectrum is the guy that thinks Ms Right will magically pop up on the
street somewhere. I would say this type has about a 2% chance of working out as well
as the above guy.
I get what you say, Sometimes this doesn't even happen while living in a country for 6 months or even a year! In this case
I don't have the expectation that magic will happen and I'll find Ms Right with the first attempt. This is a recipe for
disappointment and may only lead to frustration. Perhaps once I'm back in my hometown I will have worked out a plan in my head
for when I get the chance to go back there. However, the important point is getting the gears inside my head in motion so I can
figure out a solid strategy to find this person.
-
American men who have never been to the FSU aren't very likely to have
realistic expectations or know how things work.
The OP is started talking about using PUA type moves which might have worked
some for him in the USA. What he doesn't realize is that 98% of FSU single men
over a certain age are already experienced PUA types and it will have upside down
and backwards results there compared to here.
A hunded years ago I had some friends who were a little better than mediocre basketball
players. They wanted me to join their team to play in a tournament that I had played
in before. I told them that they were going to be eaten alive because the competition
was far too good for them to compete with.
They had to go to the tournament, get destroyed and eliminated for them to understand.
I told them about a number of other tournaments that catered to B and C level players
and they joined a bunch of them and had a fantastic time at it, but they needed to get
their noses bloodied first before they would listen.
Once the OP goes over there he will get some experience and then have a different
perspective than he does now. What works with single women in the USA and what
would work for a foreigner in the FSU are two totally different things.
Everybody knows a guy with an Aussie/English/New Zealand/French accent with very
average looks and capabilities might have some success with American woman because
he is a little bit different. That guy can still f#ck it up but he gets a foot in the door
because he is a little bit unique.
Americans have a chance in the FSU because they are perceived as being a little bit
different. He needs to work that unique perception bit rather than try to show that
he has the worst part of FSU men, but not as good at the language, or as young, fit
or as good looking.
You are a very wise and experienced man 2tallbill, I can see that in most of your responses
and posts. However, even if I try PU on the streets or someplace else where I'll be moving
and it gives little results you know I will still have more possibilities than using a PPL scam
website in which most women there are doing it for the money and the kickbacks they get.
I've heard many people say this same thing: "Get your ass on a F*$#@ plane and go meet
the real Ukraine" and not the fantasy they sell you on PPL and other marriage agencies(including
your untouchable elenasmodels!).
Now, when somebody comes and says, yeah, I'm gonna do just that! They throw mud at you
, criticize you and tell you that you are destined to FAIL anyway!
So in the end I've learned the hard way, I won't be able to please people no matter what I do.
I'll just enjoy the ride!
-
Ok. Back to my train of thought.
At one point I had been afraid of having "too many leads" and the "immoral" part
of dating in which you have to game several women at the same time.
Now that I see the travel date is approaching more and more, I can say I am more
afraid of the opposite, having contacted a couple girls and not having one solid lead.
This is why I will pretty much throw all the meat to the grill contacting more and more
girls in this short interim as to even have to cancel
some dates and meetings.
I think this is the way to go. If I have to offend a couple women and not follow through
with them even when I promised seeing them on this trip I shall not falter.
Also, I am considering changing my return date to the USA and make it last at least
5 more days. So perhaps first I can take the first part of the trip mostly as tourism and
then focus on the girls I am interested in meeting.
Does anyone know the FEE for staying more time that what the visa was granted for?
Someone in my consulate stated it could be about $150, but didn't specify if it was for
the whole 5 days or for each.
So far I think I have a pretty good chance of at least getting a couple dates, otherwise
we also have a fall to plan with Ukraine Expert Patagonie who also has a really good dating
plan.
Cheers!
-
Question is what do you want out of this?If your plan is to return with a long term prospect, change direction.However if you wish to have met contacts that you can pursue further in short time, your idea is passable.However... what is the road plan for the future?Do you know when and how long you can make your next visit? If it is only after one year, expect any woman you have met on this trip to have disapeared.
-
Now, when somebody comes and says, yeah, I'm gonna do just that! They throw mud at you
, criticize you and tell you that you are destined to FAIL anyway!
So in the end I've learned the hard way, I won't be able to please people no matter what I do.
I'll just enjoy the ride!
Ignore the mud, go with your plan and update your tactics as you go.
You can learn a lot here, but you will learn even more with your boots
on the ground.
I had a room mate in college who took logic in College and got a D in
the class, so he took it better to improve his grade and got an F. He
would ask 50-60 girls for a date that he would confront just walking
around during the week, 58 out of 60 would say no, but he ALWAYS
had a hot date.
He met his wife chatting her up at the cash register at a store.
My Dad met my mom by jumping in the back seat of her car
when she stopped at a light. I met my first wife at a garage
sale.
There are hundred ways to be successful.
Ok. Back to my train of thought.
At one point I had been afraid of having "too many leads" and the "immoral" part
of dating in which you have to game several women at the same time.
You just need to be good at making decisions. I went on a trip to Voronezh to meet
one girl, it didn't work out with her so I went on several social networking and Local
Russian dating platforms and started asking girls out. On that trip, I never asked a
girl on a second date because I would decide that she didn't have the right combination of
IT factor, and chemistry.
Guys make the mistake in my opinion of asking a girl out a second time because
she is hot or because they have a time slot when they should just be moving on.
Guys also make a mistake in my opinion of continuing new dates AFTER finding
the best girl.
I kept doing the speed dating until I met Angel Eyes. I had a date set up with
another girl later on but I canceled it and pursued Angel Eyes exclusively.
Once you found a the girl with the IT factor and the chemistry go get her!
Now that I see the travel date is approaching more and more, I can say I am more
afraid of the opposite, having contacted a couple girls and not having one solid lead.
I found my girl years ago and my method of using social networking and dating sites
might be stale these days. Somebody like Pat who has recent experience surely knows
what resources to use now.
My theory of a visit many trip was to avoid the lengthy communication before meeting
because that's a visit one tactic. Once you've met a girl and you have mutual chemistry
then you can focus on her. You don't end up wasting times with girls that you don't have
chemistry with.
Also, I am considering changing my return date to the USA and make it last at least
5 more days. So perhaps first I can take the first part of the trip mostly as tourism and
then focus on the girls I am interested in meeting.
Does anyone know the FEE for staying more time that what the visa was granted for?
Someone in my consulate stated it could be about $150, but didn't specify if it was for
the whole 5 days or for each.
So far I think I have a pretty good chance of at least getting a couple dates, otherwise
we also have a fall to plan with Ukraine Expert Patagonie who also has a really good dating
plan.
Cheers!
If you are going to Russia apply for a multi visit/multi year visa. As an American I didn't need
a visa for Ukraine.
I have more thoughts but I've got to go save the world at work today.
-
I found my girl years ago and my method of using social networking and dating sites
might be stale these days. Somebody like Pat who has recent experience surely knows
what resources to use now.
My theory of a visit many trip was to avoid the lengthy communication before meeting
because that's a visit one tactic. Once you've met a girl and you have mutual chemistry
then you can focus on her. You don't end up wasting times with girls that you don't have
chemistry with.
If you are going to Russia apply for a multi visit/multi year visa. As an American I didn't need
a visa for Ukraine.
I have more thoughts but I've got to go save the world at work today.
Nice man! That reply was a huge eye opener! I agree with what you say.
Perhaps I made the mistake of using the visit one tactic instead of doing what my friend
David Murphey says, that he starts chatting or corresponding with women just a few weeks before
his flight to UA so that he doesn't burn out his leads as many things can happen during a long
drawn correspondence!
Perhaps this is what happened to me and several other people had also told me it was not a good
time to go find a wife in UA or FSU because of the situation with the covid. This really messed the
majority of the peoples plans I believe, specially plans like meeting a wife abroad.
Still some other people on youtube and other places advise to have several women to whom you have
written letters or had communication for several months before your trip so that they can be
"more solid leads". I see this sounds great in theory but in practice I see that it is not a 100% reliable strategy
and these women may break at any moment. You might think that you won't find anyone if you just get
there and start meeting women when on the move, but that's actually the most NATURAL way of approaching
a woman and as humans we just acquired these new technologies which instead of making things easier, many
times complicate things more as with the case of all the scams going on on the Internet now.
Remember what I said about guys who were regretful of having visit one
tactics as they saw other more beautiful and interesting girls out in the open when they actually got
there in Ukraine or Russia but felt tied up!
Chemistry is the other thing, as tallbill says, you may be writing lots by
text and when you actually meet her you see that there isn't much chemistry after all, like the guy
who ended his date early in order to get back with the waitress as there was the spark and he didn't have
too look much further.
I'm starting to watch Patagonie's youtube channel to catch all the tips and tricks that he offers but he does
have some extensive info about ukraine and with my daily work load it is hard to watch it all at once.
So Ill definitely look into that.
Your friend from College who studied logic reminds me of the story of the "Iranian from Hell", a story that
became popular in the Pickup Community of a man who never gave up after being blown off and still got
a hot girl and perhaps you can still find this online.
Also note, I'm not an American. I do need visa to enter ukraine. I do not need one to enter Russia.
Cheers Tall
-
Ignore the mud, go with your plan and update your tactics as you go.
You can learn a lot here, but you will learn even more with your boots
on the ground. Just thank your lucky stars that Moby is currently banned.
I had a room mate in college who took logic in College and got a D in
the class, so he took it better to improve his grade and got an F. He
would ask 50-60 girls for a date that he would confront just walking
around during the week, 58 out of 60 would say no, but he ALWAYS
had a hot date.
He met his wife chatting her up at the cash register at a store.
My Dad met my mom by jumping in the back seat of her car
when she stopped at a light. I met my first wife at a garage
sale.
There are hundred ways to be successful.
You just need to be good at making decisions. I went on a trip to Voronezh to meet
one girl, it didn't work out with her so I went on several social networking and Local
Russian dating platforms and started asking girls out. On that trip, I never asked a
girl on a second date because I would decide that she didn't have the right combination of
IT factor, and chemistry.
Guys make the mistake in my opinion of asking a girl out a second time because
she is hot or because they have a time slot when they should just be moving on.
Guys also make a mistake in my opinion of continuing new dates AFTER finding
the best girl.
I kept doing the speed dating until I met Angel Eyes. I had a date set up with
another girl later on but I canceled it and pursued Angel Eyes exclusively.
Once you found a the girl with the IT factor and the chemistry go get her!
I found my girl years ago and my method of using social networking and dating sites
might be stale these days. Somebody like Pat who has recent experience surely knows
what resources to use now.
My theory of a visit many trip was to avoid the lengthy communication before meeting
because that's a visit one tactic. Once you've met a girl and you have mutual chemistry
then you can focus on her. You don't end up wasting times with girls that you don't have
chemistry with.
If you are going to Russia apply for a multi visit/multi year visa. As an American I didn't need
a visa for Ukraine.
I have more thoughts but I've got to go save the world at work today.
Excellent post, newbies there is a lot to think about here... read and reread.
-
Post from
iloveukrayinkas (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=profile;u=44911)________________________________________________________________________________
Nice man! That reply was a huge eye opener! I agree with what you say.
Perhaps I made the mistake of using the visit one tactic instead of doing what my friend
David Murphey says, that he starts chatting or corresponding with women just a few weeks before
his flight to UA so that he doesn't burn out his leads as many things can happen during a long
drawn correspondence! Good advice but it's not only about burning all leads, it's also about not burning YOUR emotional fund which is necessary limited for many western men
Perhaps this is what happened to me and several other people had also told me it was not a good
time to go find a wife in UA or FSU because of the situation with the covid. This really messed the
majority of the peoples plans I believe, specially plans like meeting a wife abroad.
Still some other people on youtube and other places advise to have several women to whom you have
written letters or had communication for several months before your trip so that they can be
"more solid leads". I see this sounds great in theory but in practice I see that it is not a 100% reliable strategyThey are mostly wrong, the world has become about instant satisfaction due to the internet globalization and fast delivery services
and these women may break at any moment Because of this new world the real guys who show have an outstanding advantage. You might think that you won't find anyone if you just get
there and start meeting women when on the move, but that's actually the most NATURAL way of approaching
a woman and as humans we just acquired these new technologies which instead of making things easier, many
times complicate things more as with the case of all the scams going on on the Internet now.
Remember what I said about guys who were regretful of having visit one
tactics as they saw other more beautiful and interesting girls out in the open when they actually got
there in Ukraine or Russia but felt tied up!
Chemistry is the other thing, as tallbill says, you may be writing lots by
text and when you actually meet her you see that there isn't much chemistry after all, like the guy
who ended his date early in order to get back with the waitress as there was the spark and he didn't have
too look much further.
I'm starting to watch Patagonie's youtube channel to catch all the tips and tricks that he offers but he does
have some extensive info about ukraine and with my daily work load it is hard to watch it all at once.
So Ill definitely look into that. Thank
Your friend from College who studied logic reminds me of the story of the "Iranian from Hell", a story that
became popular in the Pickup Community of a man who never gave up after being blown off and still got
a hot girl and perhaps you can still find this online.
Also note, I'm not an American. I do need visa to enter ukraine. I do not need one to enter Russia.
Cheers Tall
-
Nice man! That reply was a huge eye opener! I agree with what you say.
Perhaps I made the mistake of using the visit one tactic instead of doing what my friend
David Murphey says, that he starts chatting or corresponding with women just a few weeks before
his flight to UA so that he doesn't burn out his leads as many things can happen during a long
drawn correspondence!
This is exactly the time frame laid out in the methodology at:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0
-
Nice man! That reply was a huge eye opener! I agree with what you say.
Perhaps I made the mistake of using the visit one tactic instead of doing what my friend
David Murphey says, that he starts chatting or corresponding with women just a few weeks before
his flight to UA so that he doesn't burn out his leads as many things can happen during a long
drawn correspondence!
Perhaps this is what happened to me and several other people had also told me it was not a good
time to go find a wife in UA or FSU because of the situation with the covid. This really messed the
majority of the peoples plans I believe, specially plans like meeting a wife abroad.
Still some other people on youtube and other places advise to have several women to whom you have
written letters or had communication for several months before your trip so that they can be
"more solid leads". I see this sounds great in theory but in practice I see that it is not a 100% reliable strategy
and these women may break at any moment. You might think that you won't find anyone if you just get
there and start meeting women when on the move, but that's actually the most NATURAL way of approaching
a woman and as humans we just acquired these new technologies which instead of making things easier, many
times complicate things more as with the case of all the scams going on on the Internet now.
Remember what I said about guys who were regretful of having visit one
tactics as they saw other more beautiful and interesting girls out in the open when they actually got
there in Ukraine or Russia but felt tied up!
Chemistry is the other thing, as tallbill says, you may be writing lots by
text and when you actually meet her you see that there isn't much chemistry after all, like the guy
who ended his date early in order to get back with the waitress as there was the spark and he didn't have
too look much further.
I'm starting to watch Patagonie's youtube channel to catch all the tips and tricks that he offers but he does
have some extensive info about ukraine and with my daily work load it is hard to watch it all at once.
So Ill definitely look into that.
Your friend from College who studied logic reminds me of the story of the "Iranian from Hell", a story that
became popular in the Pickup Community of a man who never gave up after being blown off and still got
a hot girl and perhaps you can still find this online.
Also note, I'm not an American. I do need visa to enter ukraine. I do not need one to enter Russia.
Cheers Tall
ILU, you have about up to two weeks from start of correspondence to announcing to a girl that you'll visit for her to be content with just a meet. Much more than that and FSW tend to feel that you are there to see her for several days. It's weird but they do. Nothing to say you can't go there and blow her off if no chemistry or better still as Shadow suggested be upfront and admit there is none. That's way better than trying to make it work and most Ukrainian girls are socialable enough that they will happily go around with you as a friend, all you may have to do is pay for the odd meal and cheap attraction expense, hey a cheap translator and go between straight off the bat! :D
Remember although all Ukrainian girls will have learnt English at school not all will be good at it, some will know hardly any and will have struggled at learning it. I've met them, they tend to improve over time a bit when around you and having to use it but that takes at least days. The first girl I met in Kiev, Ukraine was pretty perfect in English she could have easily been a good two, she had studied it as part of her degree at Uni, not all girls will have done, many perhaps most won't. So many of the girl's you hit on depending on the place may know little to no English, it's not little England out there. So a girl with you that you've attached yourself in such a manner could be indespensable. Online translation tools on your phone are ok but they are not easy to have a flowing conversation with and can get irritating for the girl fairly quickly. I kind of got to thinking that they don't look good for the guy also, kind of looks a bit weak I think like you're relying on it like a disability aid.
Anyway, I kind of agree with Bill if you want to try PUA then the experience of finding out what it's really like isn't bad to have. As I've said to you I went out there in 2019 with that thought to Kiev but found it less than ideal. I was early forties at the time so the idea of going up to uni girls was really a no-goer, I passed by many but they showed no interest. Older girls going to & from work were pre occupied with that and seemed switched off to approach it even eye contact. In addition Kiev is quite well off in the city centre so looking the business as far as impression is concerned is going to be a bid deal to stand any chance. If you're looking for eye contact while it could happen anywhere you're probably better off somewhere slower paced like one of the smaller provincial towns. To be honest though while I've been getting out less because if the virus I find less girl's eye me up than used too, not that loads did before but with age I think that happens. Even in the past it was kind of sporadic.
Main thing is girls can have their own agenda whether corresponding with them or hitting on them. Some for example may correspond with you as they are bored and want some fun but may not really want to go off with a foreigner. Some girls that eye you up might just be found so to make another guy jealous. It can vary a lot, I wouldn't write PUA off but you could for example go the whole trip without getting eyed up by anyone. I personally got fed up after the first girl I met of the idea of starting over with writing to another girl to find out how her cat was, what colour was her favourite, etc, etc. So yes other methods that bring up girls are worth a try as of course chemistry is often only found out when the eyes meet.
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Pardon my ignorance but what is PUA?
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Pardon my ignorance but what is PUA?
Pick-up artist, sometimes called day game or street pick-up.
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Pardon my ignorance but what is PUA?
Here is a over simplified Cliff Notes version.
It's a philosophy about hitting on Single Women using tactics that "Bad Boys"
use.
The problem with using that in Russia is that 80% of the single Russian men
over a certain age use Bad Boy tactics and know the local language and culture.
The other 19.9841% are dead, in jail, in a relationship or otherwise encumbered.
My advice in the FSU is not to use the PUA tactics but to use the
"Aussie Accent/I'm very unique method instead". There is a perception that
Western men will treat them better, so don't dispel them of that notion the first
chance you get because, that's one of the things they like about you. That's what
makes you different than their local options.
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@iloveukrayinkas
Hey are you still planning to go to Ukraine? Looks like Kiev is in lock down. Bummer. I don't want to expose my lady to any unnecessary risk but we've been looking forward to meeting in spring. I want to go in May but might have to wait and see how things develop.
I think if I were younger I could do the PUA method but now I may just look like a creepy older man. In my younger days the old asking for directions worked like a charm in every country.
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@iloveukrayinkas
Hey are you still planning to go to Ukraine? Looks like Kiev is in lock down. Bummer. I don't want to expose my lady to any unnecessary risk but we've been looking forward to meeting in spring. I want to go in May but might have to wait and see how things develop.
I think if I were younger I could do the PUA method but now I may just look like a creepy older man. In my younger days the old asking for directions worked like a charm in every country.
Yeah I thought that one could be a good one. A bit harder now with Google map & mobile phones. Would just have to make out you're phone went flat I guess or no local sim card. LOL yeah I too kind of felt a bit like creepy old man when I was looking at some of the young girls posing around Odessa. Thing is unless you're pretty sure they are definitely likely to be at least twenty something or more then a guy around his late thirties or early forties, well let's just say you don't want to risk it in case she's turns out to be younger than thought. Some real pretty women around Odessa though but a bit of a dating industry area unfortunately.
That's another problem with street game as you age of course. From a distance I probably look like I could be in my twenties but close up no doubt a lot older and nearer my early forties. So some young girls still give me the eye from a distance lol. Goes to show though that be prepared that the odd embarrassing situation could develop from any which way.
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Here is a over simplified Cliff Notes version.
It's a philosophy about hitting on Single Women using tactics that "Bad Boys"
use.
The problem with using that in Russia is that 80% of the single Russian men
over a certain age use Bad Boy tactics and know the local language and culture.
The other 19.9841% are dead, in jail, in a relationship or otherwise encumbered.
My advice in the FSU is not to use the PUA tactics but to use the
"Aussie Accent/I'm very unique method instead". There is a perception that
Western men will treat them better, so don't dispel them of that notion the first
chance you get because, that's one of the things they like about you. That's what
makes you different than their local options.
You have a point. And I am aware that men in Russia/Ukraine even go for the
stop the car in the middle of the street sometimes just to chat a girl up and aggressively
ask for her number and stuff like that.
In the case of being a foreigner and trying the Day Game stuff you say it could be counter
productive, however, because of all the SCAMS online I believe it's acceptable to run that
risk instead of being taken for a ride or even assaulted by the criminal organizations there.
I mean, who cares what she thinks about being a player, in the end the right girl will be
welcoming to your approach. On PAY SITES you risk being scammed with the PPLs and also with the
monthly suscription sites, and on the free sites, there's just too many scammers and just
WAY TOO MUCH competition, that the sexual market is already saturated. You are JUST wasting
your precious time online.
I add a screenshot using mamba's live stream feature. A very pretty girl logs in and starts
being flooded with hundreds of guys in less than a minute that i saw her just logging in!!!
Just imagine the amount of competition you can get just trying to hook up with a half attractive
or mediocre girl online, it's just ridiculous!
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@iloveukrayinkas
Hey are you still planning to go to Ukraine? Looks like Kiev is in lock down. Bummer. I don't want to expose my lady to any unnecessary risk but we've been looking forward to meeting in spring. I want to go in May but might have to wait and see how things develop.
I think if I were younger I could do the PUA method but now I may just look like a creepy older man. In my younger days the old asking for directions worked like a charm in every country.
Yeah man, I did go, but they started lock down on apr 10. So half my trip was on lockdown.
What about your trip, did you finally go?
Don't think it's creepy to use PUA techs, just depends where you use them! Ofc if you are chasing girls down
the street you might seem like it, but if you use it cleverly in restaurants, hotels and the like you may have
lots of success as well. Cheers
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You have a point. And I am aware that men in Russia/Ukraine even go for the
stop the car in the middle of the street sometimes just to chat a girl up and aggressively
ask for her number and stuff like that.
In the case of being a foreigner and trying the Day Game stuff you say it could be counter
productive, however, because of all the SCAMS online I believe it's acceptable to run that
risk instead of being taken for a ride or even assaulted by the criminal organizations there.
I mean, who cares what she thinks about being a player, in the end the right girl will be
welcoming to your approach. On PAY SITES you risk being scammed with the PPLs and also with the
monthly suscription sites, and on the free sites, there's just too many scammers and just
WAY TOO MUCH competition, that the sexual market is already saturated. You are JUST wasting
your precious time online.
I add a screenshot using mamba's live stream feature. A very pretty girl logs in and starts
being flooded with hundreds of guys in less than a minute that i saw her just logging in!!!
Just imagine the amount of competition you can get just trying to hook up with a half attractive
or mediocre girl online, it's just ridiculous!
I personally don't think Mamba is a good site anymore, a few years ago it used to be good but then they changed it from a free site to one with a monthly reoccurring subscription, the reoccurring bit they try to get through on the sly. Then once on it try to screw more money out of you with pointless pay for digital presents (pictures) to send to the girl. Also if you're an older guy it gets difficult messaging younger women because of the age category boxes. I don't mean a lot younger just five years or so if that. Also it originally started as a local dating site for native Russians, Ukrainians so some of the girls really want a native speaker/local and don't know English that well as not all speak it to good fluency. Also some girls will be looking for a guy who is not much older than they are if they joined wanting to find a local guy, the payoff for girls accepting an older
WM is often a better lifestyle abroad. Scammerss and other issues have apparently plagued it as well I would avoid these days too much bother fir little reward.
Fdate is a good free site that I would recommend. Any method of dating will have its advantages and pitfalls. A lot of it depends on how well you learn the game and can accurately recognise what is going on which can be through own skills of the mind and time gaining experience at it. Some guys will unfortunately fall for the same tricks time over again, doesn't matter if they chose to do a tour or online dating site. Some will use a ppl site time over again and not pick up that it's mostly a have on. On the other hand there are guys with enough guile to know how to get a genuine date of a ppl site but these are very few and ppl in general is best avoided.
I can tell on Fdate now what is a genuine girl within a few short messages, even the first one to some extent. That didn't happen overnight it took up to several years to learn it fully. In the early years I learnt a few tale tell signs of a genuine girl but I didn't necessarily get to recognise all warning flags of varying variety, that took longer.
PUA is another interesting way of meeting women. I would tend to avoid it a little now because of my age. I'm in my early to mid forties and it can be difficult looking at a girl and getting her age right on the street or wherever. It's easy to get carried away and start looking at girls in their early twenties not recognise they are so much younger and think you're in with a chance. I fortunately managed to stop myself from any attempt like that but a lot of local girls generally want to date guys their own age, it's just a few that want a life abroad that may accept older. Anyway unless I get good eye contact from a girl out and about I wouldn't contemplate it so a lot of time can be spent walking around. Inner city girls in places like Kiev & Odessa can get fed up of foreigners trying to crack on to them and avoid eye contact, some may see you as a sex tourist. I generally wouldn't do PUA if older than mid to late thirties at the most in most cases due to age difference issues. I think a lot of PUA depends how you go about it, there are YouTube videos of guys doing it but they are pretty extrovert types so I think you've got to match your PUA technique to your personality. Don't try bounding up to a girl and jumping around like a jack in a box if you're not that type of person try a more low key approach then work the situation as best you can I would say. A lot of PUA can be quite difficult in the FSU as takes a guy that has learnt the art well for him and a reasonable location where you're not got a load of people rushing past in a hurry, etc.
Again all these techniques take learning and experience, any can be successful but it's often not something you can master overnight. Some guys get lucky, some have natural skills for a certain technique. For most though it takes time learning it all, it has with me. If deciding to change technique it is again often a case of starting over again at ground zero. I tried changing from meet one to meet many and made several mistakes not realising that there is certain rules that need to be followed when trying to meet many that are different to the rules to meet one. So it's back to square one often with each technique learning as a newbie what works and what doesn't work, that takes time. The guys on here know a lot of stuff and being on here a while you can pick up a lot of info that can be helpful on this, from other sources as well but it still takes time.
People go on tours & use marriage agencies and they can seem a quick short cut but often in the end unless the guy gets lucky they too take time and money to work out how to make them work for you and not get scammed at them. So I would say take your pick and learn what you can on the technique and invest the effort, time & money to make it work for you. Don't expect an easy time of it at first just drifting into it, it takes time getting it wrong, learning what went wrong, learning what to do right next time, learning the environment, etc. I've outlined some issues with PUA here but never got the time and learning it to our it into effect, the virus kicked in and like I say I'm starting to get a bit old for it. I've still not got much greying so if I picked out the grey and got a facial filler job I might be in with a chance but otherwise I would risk being that creepy old guy or cracking onto a lot of older married Women I would reckon lol.
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Our ways are ancient but that doesn't mean we can't contribute something
The analog part of boy meets girl part has been mostly unchanged since they
allowed women's suffrage. Us Old Married Bastards (OMB's)can still pass on
pearls of wisdom about that.
A good girl is a good girl, and was a good girl hasn't changed. So identifying
whether a girl has good character or whether her values match your own are
still the most important things to find. OMB's are still an excellent source of
insight.
Many, many, many men just go after the hottest, youngest, fittest girl that
will agree to go on a date with them. OMB's can offer anecdotes and insight
on finding the best high quality woman.
OMB's can also offer smart, shrewd advice on when a man is wasting his time
or when it is time to kick a girl to the curb. The sunk cost fallacy, the she's just
not into you theory, etc.
What we can't do is to explain how we used an 8 track tape of Barry White to
get to third base in a car at a drive in theater and how somebody else might
use similar tactics to repeat our experience.
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In the case of being a foreigner and trying the Day Game stuff you say it could
be counterproductive, however, because of all the SCAMS online I believe it's
acceptable to run that risk instead of being taken for a ride or even assaulted
by the criminal organizations there.
How does using PUA (pick up artist) tactics reduce scams or increase your
safety?
You have to identify your goal in advance. If your goal is to find the woman
with the highest quality in both character, seriousness, reliability and looks
for a long term relationship/marriage in the FSU then I advise you NOT to
use tactics that are designed for finding short term sexual experiences.
PUA tactics are designed to be used in bars to separate the most sexually
desirable women from their panties. Occasionally you can find a high quality
woman in a bar but you are far more likely to find a barfly.
I mean, who cares what she thinks about being a player, in the end the right
girl will be welcoming to your approach.
Again what is your goal.
You will probably be pushing away the right girl for a long term relationship and
attracting the type of girl suited for a short term roll in the hay.
I'm not going to judge guys who just want an exotic sexual experience. I have
been out of that sort of market for a long time and wouldn't have any advice as
to how to proceed.
My advice is to Don't mix tactics If you want short term, don't use long term
marriage type tactics. If you want Long term, don't use short term PUA tactics.
You worry about mobsters? Stay away from illegal activity and you probably won't
cross paths with them. More girls have brothers, uncles or cousins that would
be offended if you convinced a good girl that you desired marriage when you just
wanted to check her oil.
Udachi!
Bill
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What we can't do is to explain how we used an 8 track tape of Barry White to
get to third base in a car at a drive in theater and how somebody else might
use similar tactics to repeat our experience.
I used cassette of Julio Iglesias in FSU 10-15 years ago.
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I used cassette of Julio Iglesias in FSU 10-15 years ago.
I have a niece she is a cute, funny, smart charming girl. I told her about
records and a record player. She asked me how did you burn a record??
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How does using PUA (pick up artist) tactics reduce scams or increase your
safety?
You have to identify your goal in advance. If your goal is to find the woman
with the highest quality in both character, seriousness, reliability and looks
for a long term relationship/marriage in the FSU then I advise you NOT to
use tactics that are designed for finding short-term sexual experiences.
PUA tactics are designed to be used in bars to separate the most sexually
desirable women from their panties. Occasionally you can find a high quality
woman in a bar but you are far more likely to find a barfly.
Again what is your goal.
You will probably be pushing away the right girl for a long term relationship and
attracting the type of girl suited for a short term roll in the hay.
I'm not going to judge guys who just want an exotic sexual experience. I have
been out of that sort of market for a long time and wouldn't have any advice as
to how to proceed.
My advice is to Don't mix tactics If you want short term, don't use long term
marriage type tactics. If you want Long term, don't use short term PUA tactics.
You worry about mobsters? Stay away from illegal activity and you probably won't
cross paths with them. More girls have brothers, uncles or cousins that would
be offended if you convinced a good girl that you desired marriage when you just
wanted to check her oil.
Udachi!
Bill
Bill, lol, I protest.
PUA is identified with two men who got a lot of attention from the media.
John Markovitch, alias Mystery and a Journalist who wrote the game named Neil Strauss. But the book is entirely coming from the Mystery Method.
But the game, in extenso, is absolutely not only about these two men. And they represent only a part of the sphere of seduction.
To make it a little short, what you identify as PUA is just the OUTER game, but there is also all the INNER game. A third, or even half of what we call the game in his globality, is about SELF IMPROVEMENT.
No, gamers don't push away the right girls for a long-term relationship; it's simply that most of the guys, at this specific moment, are only interested in pickups, in ONS, or few nights with a stranger.
Many men use a lot of what you call short-term tactics, but it makes no difference for women. There is this belief that such men retrieve only women suited for the short term. THERE IS NO SUCH thing, a lot of gamers end with a middle or long term relationship with a woman (yes, many finish in couple, sometimes with children),
And, they don't have TWO different tactics, one for the long term and another one for the bang.
I HIGHLY PROTEST against this because it doesn't help the guys who are not easy with women and who are the ones who need the most to do the work. And the game is a lot of work.
What is missing for most men is not their serious intentions, but the biggest problem is that they cannot raise enough interest from women they really like. That's their main drama.
Without the game, I would have never married my ex-wife. And would have never been capable of managing my relationship with my last girlfriend.
Do only a few women answer you on online dating sites? (your profile is not attractive)
The game can help you.
You want to marry, but you cannot know if the woman is attracted to you?
The game can help you.
Do you have a very low ratio of the second meetings?The game can help you.
You don't know how to build an online communication with western women on Tinder, Bumble, and so on?The game can help you.
Now it's true that international dating offers many challenges in this long journey, and that's better to know your specific goal if you want to have fun, don't talk about marriage to FSU girls. If you want to marry and cannot focus at one moment on ONE specific woman to let grow a possible couple, that will be a recipe for disaster.
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I was thinking similar Pat. I think Bill is right in as far as bars and nightclubs go, they are more for ONS or short term relationships. Possibly at some point someone might have got an LTR our of it but the likelyhood for most people is probably very remote. Let's face it if a girl goes to a nightclub or bar one night to be hit on she can easily go any other night to be hit on as well.
I think away from bars is a different matter and during the day. For day game though I wouldn't recommend the extrovert PUA stuff online but a more low key approach. Basically just going up to a girl who has shown interest and talk to her about basic everyday stuff. End of the day that is really how most people did it before internet dating came along.
I think you definitely make a good point Pat in level of interest a girl shows. As I've found its possible to get interest from a girl but it not be enough to get a date, follow up dates or an LTR. Generally I think a girl's interest gas to be pretty strong for it to go the distance and it can probably take a lot. Like you say learning the game by interacting through online dating (or anywhere else) isn't a bad idea. Over the past few years I have learnt stuff and improved as a result I think. Along the way there is a lot of trying different things and seeing what works and what doesn't and improving from there. It can take time but while different approaches have their own stuff that needs to be learned some stuff learned can help overall I think.
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More girls have brothers, uncles or cousins that would be offended if you convinced a good girl that you desired marriage when you just wanted to check her oil.
Actually, I never really thought about this source of potential danger.
Gave me a moment of chills . . . reflecting on what might have happened; even as I never really tried to convince any gal that I desired marriage.
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Actually, I never really thought about this source of potential danger.
Gave me a moment of chills . . . reflecting on what might have happened;
even as I never really tried to convince any gal that I desired marriage.
If you never intentionally mislead anybody then you never intentionally mislead
anybody. It's when you intentionally mislead women that you get the woman
scorned effect, leading to problems.
That's why I advised using the tactics that fit the goals.
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Woah, quite a discussion that continued after my last message here.
Have been busy in other stuff lately.
Gotta catch up later and reply!
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Woah, quite a discussion that continued after my last message here.
Have been busy in other stuff lately.
Gotta catch up later and reply!
Reckon since you started this thread a good way to hook a Ukrainian girl would now be to offer a vaccine jab if she agrees to date you :D There apparently back to being dirt poor out there and most can't afford a vaccine jab themselves & the state us too skint to pay for many jabs either. The US & UK are donating some vaccine but still way too short of what they need.
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Bill, lol, I protest.
PUA is identified with two men who got a lot of attention from the media.
I understand that you are in favor of using these tactics, I've used cocky/funny
a million times before I even knew it was a thing. 95% of the single men in the
FSU use PUA tactics and they have far better Russian language skills.
My advice is to use the perception that Western men treat women better to your
advantage along with your "French Accent advantage*"
What is the "French Accent advantage"
You are a foreigner and therefore a little different and a little bit mysterious and sexy.
Your French/English American accent does nothing for you in your home country because
everyone sounds like you, but outside of your country you are a little bit exotic. USE THAT!!
Udachi!
Bill
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I understand that you favor using these tactics; I've used cocky/funny
a million times before I even knew it was a thing. 95% of the single men in the
FSU use PUA tactics and they have far better Russian language skills.
My advice is to use the perception that Western men treat women better to your
advantage along with your "French Accent advantage*"
What is the "French Accent advantage"
You are a foreigner and therefore a little different and a little bit mysterious and sexy.
Your French/English American accent does nothing for you in your home country because
everyone sounds like you, but outside of your country you are a little bit exotic. USE THAT!!
Udachi!
Bill
There is a little more than the french accent. There is an old prestige coming before the first world war and still alive. Knowing the language is still prestigious, and you will meet quite a lot of words in Russian, basically the same as in french. Luxe industry, fashion, most visited country by the number of people (America first by the budget) France still has a name. And so on...
So there is a real french presence in Ukraine, in many details. I don't know in Russia, but I believe that's the same, at least.
This is what I have noticed last 11 years.
I have also noticed some pro /german pro/American pro/Italian daters among FSU women.
Don't mislead my post,