Russian Women Discussion
RWD Discussion Groups => Trip Reports => Topic started by: Jack on June 05, 2007, 04:44:09 PM
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Just getting in from an early night out, it's 2:40am so you know it's an early night, and thought I would go over some of the crazy events of this evening.
So about 5pm I get a call from an Englishman asking about going out somewhere tonight and I tell him sure, meet ya in front of the Globe at 10:30pm. At about 6:30pm get a call from a guy from Ireland, Adam, asking about doing something tonight, I tell him I am meeting Tony (not real name of course) at 10:30 etc, etc. While I get call from the Irish guy I am having dinner with a good friend of mine, Tanya. Tanya and I have a relationship that I think many guys would like to have in a woman, it's strictly a friendship relationship. Nothing sexual and never will be anything sexual. I told her I would try to help her find a good husband and she will try to help me find a good wife. So I ask Tanya if she would like to come to this club tonight and be my (our) retriever. Basically what this means is if I, or one of the guys, see's a lady we are interested in, Tanya will go and talk to the lady and see if she will join us at our table for a drink. Actually this has worked quite well for me and others for some time.
So at about 10:30pm we meet at the Globe, which is in front of the Post Office on Khershaytk. Tony and I get there a bit early, like 10:20 and the Irish guy Adam shows up a few minutes later. While we are standing, enjoying the many beautiful sites, I notice a very attractive brunette in a short white mini-skirt. She is about 5ft 6 inches and has a really nice upper built. She was not doing to much, was just walking around the globe looking at how many kilometers the various cities in Ukraine posted at the base of the Globe are from that exact location. I notice one time when she walked close to us she looked at us with a big smile.
Tanya is right on time which is not so common with Ukraine and Russian women as 80% seem to always be 10 to 15 minutes fashionably late. We talk a little bit, I introduce her to Tony and Adam all the time keeping one eye on this attractive brunette that has caught my attention. So were making plans to leave when I ask Tanya if she would go ask this brunette if she would like to go to club with us. Tanya does not hesitate a second and off she goes. Tanya does not have to go to far as this brunette is kind of on our way as we are walking to Khershatyk to get a taxi.
Tanya talks to her for a minute and us happens so often, Victoria, the attractive brunette say's sure. :D So we all introduce ourselves over the next few minutes and then go to get now two taxi's. Adam and I and Victoria get in one taxi and Tanya and Tony in the second. When Tanya, or any Russian girl, ask's for a taxi it's a good price. Our taxi was 15 grivnas, her taxi with Tony was 10 grivnas but I assure you if any one of us three guys had of stopped this taxi and asked scokla (how much), it would have been 25 or 30 grivnas.
So off to the club we go. Security runs there little metal detector over me and my cell phone causes detector to go off. I say telephone. This is a pretty good size security guard and he says "American?". I say daaa. His partner says "Big American" to which I again say daaa. We go inside the club and all the good tables are reserved, just as they were at the club we went to Monday night and as is the case we run into many times. I prefer a good seat with good un-obstructed view of the dance floor, but all these tables were reserved. So I ask for the manager, tell him I want this table and give him 20 grivnas, $4, .....the table is ours. Usually the tables will cost more on the weekend but for a Tuesday night the bribe money for ringside seats are much cheaper.
We order drinks, watch some fine ladies dancing and talk a little. Was about 20 ladies dancing to 4 or 5 men. There were several groups of two ladies dancing with each other. Before you know it Victoria and Adam are dancing and not to much time later they seem to be getting along real well. Looks like our Irish friend is doing fine. So I begin to look around a little more seriously as to some of the other ladies in the place. Tony is not looking so much as he had gotten in at 5am that morning and it's beginning to show.
I notice this fine looking blonde sitting at the end of the bar with some glances in my direction. She is sitting with her girlfriend who was not so attractive. Over the next 15 minutes we seemed to make casual eye contact with each other a few times. So I asked Tanya if she would go to this blonde sitting at the end of the bar and see if she would like to join us for a drink. Like a good Golden Retriever off goes Tanya. I watch Tanya's every move. She has to move around people dancing and finally get's close to my fine looking blonde when Tanya does an about halt and turns around, never talking to my blonde.
Tanya comes, sit's by me and I ask what happened? Tanya tells me she knows this woman, has seen her in the club before and she sleeps with men for money, as she put it. Damn!
:( Just my damned luck. Those stares at me were just the stares of a working girl. Darn, what a downer. Adam and Victoria have decided to split. I dance a little with Tanya, Tony dances a little with one of the many women on the dance floor but I do not see anything else that really interest me as did this fine looking blonde. So at about 2am we decided to call it a night.
Going to a new place for me tomorrow. I have heard other people talk about it, a club called something that sounds like Puaddie Paul. That's not the name of it but sounds a little like that. Wednesday is supposed to be a pretty good night for this club. I'll get the correct name of club tomorrow and maybe an update as to how things went here.
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I am confused
Aren't you happily married?
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daaaa Mir, just a little confused. I was quite happily married for 6 years. Divorced 1.75 years ago and now dating while still grieving the loss of that marriage.
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OK
And you were married to an FSU girl?
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And you were married to an FSU girl?
Of course. A wonderful FSU woman. Mir, a suggestion. If you want to get to know a little about a person writing here on RWD their is a feature where you can read that person's posts, all of them. Most people here tell a little about themselves, and a little more and a little more with more postings. If you do not know about a person then it's easy to learn if you will read as to what they have written about themselves and their FSU experiences.
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One more stupid question Jack are you the owner of this particular forum?
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Jack...
You would definitely know better than me but I felt like every girl in a nightclub in Kiev who makes eye contact was a working girl.
The only times I met girls and struck up conversation (flirting) was outside of clubs... (Shops, street, cafes).
You might have a better eye than me though.
Cheers, have fun in the capital!
Kuna
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One more stupid question Jack are you the owner of this particular forum?
I will answer that.
No, Jack is not the owner of this forum. Why do you ask?
- Dan
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to crazy jazzy, answer is no. :cluebat:
Kuna it all depends on the night clubs you go to. To make such a statement regarding all night clubs in Ukraine with be 1000% incorrect. MANY, let me say again MANY good Ukraine and Russian women go to night clubs to have a good time, to dance, to be with good friends.
In Dneprop where you are for example we see very few working girls at these clubs. In all of Ukraine "most" clubs are for ladies to go to with their girlfriends or boyfriends and dance, have a good time. Clubs here are not so much as for picking someone up as they are in America.
The exception to these night clubs I have just mentioned are in the cities of Kiev and Odessa. In these two cities you have several clubs with the sole purpose of providing this service.
Most other cities of Ukraine when foreign guys want this service they ask the doorman to the hotel they are staying at. Of course you will have these type girls in any and all clubs, I would never say this is not going to happen, but the percentage is so low at the majority of these clubs in Kharkov, Lugansk, Dneprop,. Zap, K.R., Kherson, Nikolaev and Vinnitsa. Again, not the case in Kiev or Odessa where you have a great many foreign men visiting daily.
What I see in Kiev is this. Many foreign men are told about the River Palace for a place to satisfy one's desires. Unlike what this clown scorpion said, these are some of the most beautiful women in all of Kiev, the type of women many of us dream about, BUT any woman there who did not enter with a date IS a working girl, period.
Many foreign men with money have been coming to RP for years. Now the starting out price is $300. A few fine, fine ladies are asking for, and getting $400. The competition is so intense here at RP that we saw a few years ago was women starting to go to the Moda bar where the competition is not so intense. The Moda bar was a cool place until we began to see more working girls show up. It was a club where one could go and meet, and pickup, some good local ladies. But then the percentage got to 50-50 and when this happened this was no longer a good place to go. Now Moda Bar has changed it's name to Radio City.
Arena Club also about 1.5 years ago began to attract more of the higher priced, more beautiful working girls. Today Arena Club has too high a percentage of these women to even make it interesting to go there. Club 112 has recently began to see more of the women from RP come here because the competition is less. I expect 112 to be closed or sold soon as it is on the decline.
Myself and most of my clients are turned off by the clubs with a great number of working girls in Kiev and Odessa. If that's what these guys wanted they could have gotten that in Dallas, Detroit or Denver and saved $5000.
So we are always looking for new clubs in Kiev (and Odessa) where the ladies in attendance are there to have a good time and are not there working. And their are a great many of these women, in fact the overall percentage probably like over 90% of all the women in most the other clubs in Kiev are good women.
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Dear Dan I asked this
cos look how he behaves here very frivolous
to crazy jazzy, answer is no.
It seems like he is allowed everything here on this forum
Cos he is very rude and absolutely tough talking to memebers here and that made me think he is an athority here if he acts this way , he is not afraid of any kinda boss here , that is why I thought him to be partially this forum owner
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Dear Dan I asked this
cos look how he behaves here very frivolous
It seems like he is allowed everything here on this forum
Cos he is very rude and absolutely tough talking to memebers here and that made me think he is an athority here if he acts this way , he is not afraid of any kinda boss here , that is why I thought him to be partially this forum owner
JC,
Jack is Jack - always has been. Yes, at times he comes across as overbearing - and I've told him that. He also does not receive any preferential treatment here. I've squelched some of Jack's posts - just as I have squelched others, when it was necessary. There are others who are just as "tough talking" - and some even more so (IMO) than Jack.
If you see something from Jack - or anyone else - that you feel violates the ToS, please report it.
- Dan
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Thank you Dan
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Jazzy,
You know darn well that Jack is not owner or part owner of this forum. quit playing your game little girl. He wrote nothing out of line in this thread. If you are so freaking offended, use the %^&^% ignore button and stop reading. Reminds me of an old movie where the cry baby sreams......Aunt Pollyyyyyyyyyyyy.
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I have to defer to Jack's expertise on the Kiev nightclubs and the working girls. I know that in Simferopol there will occasionally be women for hire at the clubs but it is not so common. My wife can pick them out in a second, but I'm usually clueless. The typical crowd is locals going to mingle and blow off some steam after a long week. There are other places where these "ladies" can be picked up if one is so inclined.
I remember the first argument my wife and I had on my first trip to see her. We were sitting at a cafe in the Hotel Yalta and I was looking over my shoulder watching a small child playing. Then the table behind me filled up with several absolutely gorgeous women and my gaze lingered a little too long. What can I say, it was my first trip and I was just not accustomed to such sights and hadn't learned yet how to be discreet. That was bad enough, but what really ticked my wife off was that they were all prostitutes. I had no clue!
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Wednesday night/Thursday morning was a lot funnier that the previous night. It's now 5:30am so as you can imagine when you arrive home at 5am it usually means a good time. At about 4:30am it begins to get light. It was 22c this morning and was quite a pleasant walk home.
As usually their were several "changes of plans" for this evening. Last night heard that Poti Pa was the club to go to on Wednesday nights and my advice to any of you guys coming to Kiev over the next 6 months who are in Kiev on a Wednesday night this is the place to go.
Was suppose to go to Poti pa with my English friend Tony but he got a call at about 3pm today while we were eating the sweetest tasting vanilla ice cream on Khershaytk. As you are standing on Khershaytk and saying your standing in front of the MacDonalds, about 80 yards to the left of MacDonald's you will see a little place that sells ice cream. Their will always be a line. The sweetest, most natural vanilla ice cream (on a cone) I have ever had. So anyway this girl from Vinnitsa calls Tony and tells her she is coming to Kiev if he would like to see her, he of course says yes. I have a German client named Dirk (not real name of course) who wants to go out this evening so we have Tanya planned to go with us this evening to be our retriever.
At 5pm am told of the first change of plan and that England and Latvia are playing football tonight beginning at 9:30 and a group of friends have invited me to watch the game at O'Brian's. I agree to watch the first half and then leave for the club Poti Pa. I figure I should be there at about 10:30pm.
At 6:15pm get an sms which results in our second change of plans. Elena from Kherson, a lady that has my interest, sms's me and tells me she is now in Kiev. I was expecting her on Thursday but this was fine with me. So I sms her, tell her of my plans to be at O'Brians at 9:30, Poti Pa at 10:30 and did she want to join me. She said of course and asked if she could invite a friend. I told her I had a friend coming with me as well and asked her to tell me about her friend, age, height, what she looked like etc. I told her I would get back to her in a few minutes about her friend. I called Dirk and told him about Elena's friend Oksana. All sounds well. Yea, like in America when we hear our blind date is good looking yadda-yadda and she turns out to be one ugly dog. But Elena told me Oksana was quite attractive and like most the crowd we run around with, speaks good English. So Dirk say's yea, what's there to lose. If she's bad their should be lot's of other fine ladies at the club.
So I sms Elena (everyone sms's and only calls on phones when it's an absolute necessity) and tell her that everything is fine, invite Oksana. Now I call Tanya and tell her she is more than welcomed to come to the club tonight but that I would have a date. Tanya say's that's cool, she can do some other things and wishes me a good evening.
Go to O'Brians, watch the first half of game with England leading Latvia 1-0. Pati Pa is located at the far north end of Khershatyk so from O'Brians, or my flat, it's a 10 minute walk. Cool, no need for taxi. Get to the club at about 11pm. The place is packed. Now I am told this is not a good club for most of us guys on Friday and Saturday because it's mostly a young group but on Wednesday the play 80's music and the crowd was pretty much from about 25 to 40. In most clubs in Kiev you have about 80% of the ladies who look like they just stepped of the model walkway. In this club it was about 60% who looked like models and the rest of the ladies were normal, averaging looking ladies. And no working girls!! At 11pm it looked like it was about 7 or 8 women to 1 man and the dance floor was packed. Dirk and I could not get any seats or tables as their are very few. Elena and Oksana had not arrived yet. So Dirk and I found a place at one of the two bars surrounding the dance floor. From 11pm until 4:30am I never sat and never wanted to.
At about 11:30 got an sms from Elena, she was out front and could I come and get them. I wanted to sms her back and ask if she was big enough to come in with out my help, but I didn't. I did sms her 20 minutes earlier and told her I was standing at one of the bars and she should be able to find me. But that was not good enough, Jack had to go outside and escort the ladies in. So I went outside and saw my Elena. Elena is a stunning blonde who stands 1.81m. And with her heels on we stand eye to eye. Kinda cool, I like it. And there was Oksana. My oh my was Dirk in for a pleasant surprise. Never did I have, or could I dream of such a blind date when I was growing up in America. Oksana is a beauty. About 5ft 7.5 inchs, 120 pounds, long, beautiful brown hair, a killer body and face to match, and of course, excellent pon'gleski.
So I pay for the ladies entrance, it cost 60 grivnas each ($12 a person). The same price for ladies to enter as men. I had Dirk hold my spot at the bar, if he had of walked away we would have lost this spot. So I took Elena and Oksana to our spot and introduced Dirk to Oksana. His eyes showed he was quite pleased. Drinks are a bit expensive in this place but all and all it is a great disco. Good music and as mentioned, lot's of ladies. At about 1am the 7 or 8 women to 1 man had changed and it was now about 5 to 1. We were all having a good time. At about 1:45am as I was standing next to the bar I saw one bouncer run by me to my right. I of course looked to see what was going on. Then two more bouncers, all dressed in black, ran by me. Seems there was a scuffle, a little fight with three guys. Each of the bouncers grabbed a guy and was taking his guy outside. A couple of the guys fighting were giving the bouncers a little trouble. The last of the three bouncers, who was also the smallest of the bouncers, was yanking his guy out when in front of me the guy fighting was able to stop his bouncer from moving him anymore and a slight struggle was happening right in front of me. I thought "what the hell, why not" so I came up from behind this guy who was fighting, who had reached a standoff with his bouncer, and I picked the guy up and this allowed the bouncer to pull the guy forward and we quickly pulled the guy to the front door. At the front door was a big bouncer dressed in camo and I set the guy down and handed to him, he replied "Spasba" and I went back to my drink, Elena and my place at the bar.
At 3am I noticed another drop in women to men, it was now about 3 or maybe even 2.5 women to every man. At 4am it was almost even, almost a one to one ratio.
All in all it was a very nice disco and club. At about 4:30am the place was beginning to clear out. Dirk and Oksana had hit it off well and they left together about 4am. I'll have to check with him later today and see how things went. So Elena and I are walking to my flat. It's very nice, quiet. It's beginning to get light and like I mentioned, 22c. We go under the walkway to get to the other side of Khershatyk and come up at Independence Square and were walking towards the MacDonald's as my flat is about 100 meters behind the MacDonald's but over two streets to it's right. Out the corner of my eye, about 60 meters to my left, I see two policeman. Oh no, I hope they don't want to mess with us. So Elena and I, we don't look their direction and actually begin to walk slightly to the right, away from the two cops. Well, theirs not much traffic out at 4:45am and sure enough, these two spotted us and made a bee-line to us. I guess with my bandana on and wearing my sunglasses I looked like an interesting character to stop. Sure enough, they cut us off before I could get to my street. One policeman says something to me in po'russki and I reply "nyet po'russki, only pon'gleski. I bet you want to see my documents" to which he replied yes. I reached into my back pocket, pulled out my passport and showed him my immigration card as well and told him here was everything he should need, in order. He looked and replied "yes, looks good, have a goods night". Neither of the policeman said a word to Elena.
Ok, so that's this evening's, or I should say this morning's, report on this club Poti Pa. It will get 3.5 stars in my book.
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Jack
Your stories end at the point from where Pike's start :)
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Jack
Your stories end at the point from where Pike's start :)
Absolutely and I consider it to be a very bad influence on all the members of RWD and mostly it produces bad effect on men , cos they all want to repeat this fake success in meeting millions of strange women..... for the sake of what? of entertainment but not for the sake of creating stable good family
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Give me a break!!! ::)
Isn't meeting people & having fun what life is all about. If something developes from that, great, if not, so be it. Your really getting to be an old 'stick in the mud' as they say back home.
They are all consenting adults, who are you to say it is wrong?
Live a little!!! :)
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who are you to say it is wrong?
I am the person as you and the others and have all the rights to express the things I feel about what I think is wrong or right
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Jazzy,
You are right in many ways and I understand what you mean and agree with you on many things.
I think the sincere men look to find a good woman and start a family together but sometimes it looks like it's not that way when you read it here in some posts.
The "man" thing always plays a big role in definition of manhood and all things related.
I understand what you mean and I agree with you on how the content might cause you to be upset because you wish for happy couples and good things. You are really a great woman Jazzy and that will probably never change.
Makkin
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For the record my comment was meant to be an observation and not a judgement:)
No doubt everyone has the right to express what they feel.
There has been some discussion about prostitutes, well at times there can be a subtle line between a prostitute and non-pros. I mean you go to a club and find a beautiful lady, approach her and straight away she says $300, well no doubt she is one.But what if she agrees to have a drink with you, and you buy several drinks for her, she leaves with you and you have a nice expensive dinner (paid by you) and eventually at the end of this DATE she sleeps with you.Most likely she does this with different men each time she goes to this club. So by conventional definition she is not a working girl, but then........
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Jazzy,
Don't worry..
I think most of the guys around here are mature enough to see what's really going on and can't really be influenced. I certainly would not send a lady accompanying me to go and invite some unknown woman in the park to a party or have her invite women from another table in the bar. If I was interested I would do so myself.
OTOH We all know 'Sex Sells'...
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Mir,
Your attitude I suppose is prevalent among many men, maybe most men - "if she slept with me on first date, she sleeps with everyone on first date."
Before sleeping with someone, I must like them and I must also feel that she likes me, i. e. there is something special. This can happen quickly, albeit not frequently in my case. And if there is mutual feeling and the situation comfortable and safe, why not? If we like each other and we choose not to, that is also okay - it builds up the anticipation.
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Your attitude I suppose is prevalent among many men, maybe most men
Not really, I guess each encounter should be assessed individually.
It is possible when a man and a woman meet for the first time after having been introduced through email/telephone etc they decide to have sex on the first night.
And I think this is quite acceptable, the same cannot be said about a girl who you meet for the first time in a nightclub.Should we think bad about such girls,? that is up to each individual to decide and is not the issue here.
The point is, when men get lucky with such girls they have to insist that they are not prostitutes, not because they think highly of the girls but because they want to believe it was something special about them that makes them so attractive to the girls (and it is not money.)
Girls might sleep with men for various reasons, some for money pure and simple, others for advantages (like a promotion etc. and others for privileges (like able to go to nice clubs/restaurants that they can't afford).And here lies a thin line between them being working girls or not.
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Girls might sleep with men for various reasons, some for money pure and simple, others for advantages (like a promotion etc. and others for privileges (like able to go to nice clubs/restaurants that they can't afford).And here lies a thin line between them being working girls or not.
Who says women don't like sex as much as men? Does there have to be a reason?
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For the record my comment was meant to be an observation and not a judgement:)
No doubt everyone has the right to express what they feel.
There has been some discussion about prostitutes, well at times there can be a subtle line between a prostitute and non-pros. I mean you go to a club and find a beautiful lady, approach her and straight away she says $300, well no doubt she is one.But what if she agrees to have a drink with you, and you buy several drinks for her, she leaves with you and you have a nice expensive dinner (paid by you) and eventually at the end of this DATE she sleeps with you.Most likely she does this with different men each time she goes to this club. So by conventional definition she is not a working girl, but then........
With that kind of logic (?) every woman that has sex is a prostitute.
Sorry, not buying it.
KenC
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Personally I'm trying to figure out what's so grand about the OP's life.
Let's see. You're in Kiev, OK, cool I guess. You go to clubs around the city and sit in a bar/club and look at girls/women with tourists, but don't really meet any. Well, a "working girl" gave you the eye, congratulations :clapping:.
I work in the center of Moscow on Tverskaya and see more beautiful RW than my eyes can handle on a daily basis...so what?
You get home at 5-6am (here in Moscow if I go out, 7-8am is my usual get home time). You helped a bouncer, so I guess you're a tough guy, and you got harassed by the police...where is the grand?
If that's the definition of grand, I have died and gone to heaven.
Excuse me for missing something here, but I don't get it. Maybe you're just having a great day, certainly no problem there. Maybe you're just not telling us everything...its possible.
Maybe you want people in other countries to envy you because you are in Kiev, or maybe you're just trying to rustle up some business by telling us that others (the tourists) are possibly getting some.
Sorry, but with all due respect, if you know and are around that many woman, in that town, seems you could do much better than this, I know I do. Ciao.
chivo
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every woman that has sex is a prostitute
Not every, then one who jumps into the sack couple of hours after you first see her does creat doubts
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Chivco
I think for the sake of decency he does not write about the fun bits :)
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Not every, then one who jumps into the sack couple of hours after you first see her does creat doubts
Mir,
For the sake of not hijacking this thread, this will be my last comment on "this" subject. Your position reminds me of an AW I dated before I met my wife. On our first date she informed me that there would be no sex until the third date. I told her that that was a bizarre concept. I also asked her what made her think I wanted sex with her ever? To prove a point, I did date her twice more. ;D On our third date she was all over me like a dog in heat! (Because that was "the date" that we should have sex according to her) During the course of dinner, she made it clear that she had complete privacy at her place and that "we" wouldn't be disturbed by anyone. After dinner, drinks and listening to some nice jazz, I took her home. She got a peck on the cheek at the door and I never called her again.
In my mind she was a prostitute of the highest order. The price "to have her" was 3 dates. There is no "right" or "wrong" time schedule as to when sex is appropriate, it just happens. One of the finest ladies I dated during that time period ended up being intimate with me on our first date. It was just right and I certainly never thought any less of her because of it.
There are no hard and fast rules as to when sex is appropriate. I find your comments ludicrous (at best).
KenC
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One of the finest ladies I dated during that time period ended up being intimate with me on our first date. It was just right and I certainly never thought any less of her because of it.
There are no hard and fast rules as to when sex is appropriate. I find your comments ludicrous (at best).
KenC
Totally agree with you KenC........
If 2 people fancy eachother it can happen in 10 minutes or 2-5 days..........so what?
Mir obviously likes the romantic notion of winning and dining first before anything happen....LOL
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Dammit Jack, I brought up my pix of Kershatyk - great memories!! Nice to hear your trip is going well and as usual, you're takin' care of the crew. I thoroughly enjoyed the "evening" trip story - I'm sure the guys there are having a great time.
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Sigh!! some of you people are just killin me here. Jack's there having a good time and relating some of his time spent while there. He's not some newbie and as many times as he's been there definately not just a tourist. What is it that's offending you so much? what's posted that you feel you need to see a priest about and pm Dan? This is just a light hearted post from someone having a good time in a great city. Not everything here has to do with the search or mission some of you are on. It doesn't always have to be serious. He's actually giving some great info for those that might want to know where and where not to go if you just open your eyes. BTW, Jack, maybe I missed it but give us a few more names of the decent places you have discovered. Some of you people are acting like nothing more than a bunch of prudes. Some of you are pressing your morals. For you women with the family values, are you staying pure and clean until you are married. Some might even think you to be less than moral for, OMG , having sex before marriage. Where did you draw that line?
Kyiv is a fun city. I'm glad to see someone is enjoying it. Going dancing has never been more fun than in the FSU. It's seldom you guys will ever be turned down if you ask a lady to dance. Can you say the same for where you live?
For those that are only on a serious mission, you will miss out on alot if you just don't take a little time to smile and stop to smell the roses as they say.
I guess this thread is custom made for the ones that have noting else to do but bitch about something. The usual suspects showed up. I'm glad I don't have to live your life.
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Nicely said!
Sigh!! some of you people are just killin me here. Jack's there having a good time and relating some of his time spent while there. He's not some newbie and as many times as he's been there definately not just a tourist. What is it that's offending you so much? what's posted that you feel you need to see a priest about and pm Dan? This is just a light hearted post from someone having a good time in a great city. Not everything here has to do with the search or mission some of you are on. It doesn't always have to be serious. He's actually giving some great info for those that might want to know where and where not to go if you just open your eyes. BTW, Jack, maybe I missed it but give us a few more names of the decent places you have discovered. Some of you people are acting like nothing more than a bunch of prudes. Some of you are pressing your morals. For you women with the family values, are you staying pure and clean until you are married. Some might even think you to be less than moral for, OMG , having sex before marriage. Where did you draw that line?
Kyiv is a fun city. I'm glad to see someone is enjoying it. Going dancing has never been more fun than in the FSU. It's seldom you guys will ever be turned down if you ask a lady to dance. Can you say the same for where you live?
For those that are only on a serious mission, you will miss out on alot if you just don't take a little time to smile and stop to smell the roses as they say.
I guess this thread is custom made for the ones that have noting else to do but bitch about something. The usual suspects showed up. I'm glad I don't have to live your life.
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Start2, I agree completely! Jack's out to have a great time and apparently he is accomplishing that. I couldn't be happier or more jealous. Keep it up, Jack, and please continue to share, as those of us who are stranded in the US have nothing better to do than read your posts, reminesce, and enjoy your trip by proxy.
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I also find Jack's posts entertaining. What amazes me is how his post about a night on the town with friends got turned into a discussion of what makes a woman a prostitute. :noidea: Oh no, I may have sent this thread spinning off into another direction. :cluebat:
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Couldn't agree more Start2!!!
I will say this though...
In Moscow on Wednesday I saw the most beautiful woman I have ever seen in my life, I kid you not. I have been here going on 5 years & never have I seen a Russian man double take any woman, there's just too many & they are so used to seeing them that they barely notice anymore. I wish I had a decent camera at the time, because I kid you not she walked by & the men were stopping dead in their tracks to watch her.
I was walking a little behind her as we were headed for the same place, the train station & when I got up kinda beside her I could see the little smirk on her lips everytime a guy stopped to look. This lady was an absolute doll & she knew it. About 5'10", nice & slim but not skinny, very nice curves in all the right places, deffinitley a natural blonde, with a face like an angel & a smile to match. No, she was not wearing a short short skirt or low cut blouse either but biege jeans & a light sweater. Hell she could have wore a burlap bag & she still would look hot. She was totally hot, her only problem was she knew it & she flaunted it, but then that ain't all bad. No ring on her finger that I noticed & had she lived in Tver I'd signed her up real quick.
Never have I seen Russian men act that way for any woman but this lady had us all drooling!!!
Just when you think there are no surprises left, POW, right betwixed the eyes!!! :o ;D
I may be married but I am far from dead!!
Sorry to hi-jack your thread Jack. But damn she was hot!!! ;D
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Rvrwind,
I'd definitely love to see that woman! 8)
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Your startin' to worry me Lily!! ;D
I'll probably never see her again! ;D Which will be a shame actually!
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First of all I have not criticized Jack and what he is doing.
My only slight criticism was when he said there are not many prostitutes in so and so clubs and here I have to say that depends on how you define one. Anyway this is a useless discusion and no point in pursuing it.
Ken C
So you don't agree that sexual act is part of a reasonable if not long term commitment?
Is is wrong to say that sex should happen when two individuals know a bit about each other and feel they now have an emotional attachment?
If this is wrong then I accept that we should be free to shag withing minutes of meeting provided both are willing.
There should be no advice to teenagres about when they should enter in a sexual relationship, they should just wait to be of legal age and then celebrate by shagging the first person who agrees.
I was always told that women would usually move to the sexual stage when they establish a little trust and emotional attachment with the man, can this happen in 10 minutes? Maybe yes but it does sound ludicrous.
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Mir,
I will be happy to debate sexual morals with you (and why you shouldn't try to force your's on to others) but not within this thread. Start another and quit side tracking Jack's thread. (May I suggest "no holds barred?")
KenC
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Ken
I am not forcing anything on anyone.
Jack
Please continue this thread and make it no holds barred :)
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Mir, it all depends on whether your definition of making love is giving something of yourself or taking something from someone else. It's not about give and take as in, "Okay, I've given her this and bought her that so now I'm entitled to take sex in return." Nor is it the other way around as in, "Okay, I've given him sex so now he must marry me." It's about giving of yourself with nothing expected in return. If you're looking for a purely sexual transaction and both understand what it is, then that's fine, but if you treat every woman as some level of protitute than that is exactly what you wil end up with.
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Scott wrote,
if you treat every woman as some level of prostitute then that is exactly what you will end up with.
True. Empty, loveless relationship.
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Hey Jack,
When I go to catch up with the wife soon, we plan to spend a few days in Kyiv before we head to our Ukr. home. You know, it's odd, but when we are here(US) we seldom go dancing but when there, we love it. Probably my fault. Might be because where we are there's not much to choose from that's near, or the clubs are more exciting there, or I'm not into the Texas 2 step. I have to say that many of the clubs there are like the old disco clubs of the 70's. I like that many of the places have that big wall of mirrors and I get a kick watching the gals dance in front of the mirrors mimicking their fav. pop star. Remember the hit and video a few years ago in UKr/Ru Mussie mussie, pussie pussie? Thats what it sounded like anyway. I loved watching the gals strut to that. So how bout a recommendation on a few new places. Maybe you can post here or wherever it is on the board about places to eat etc. Where is that guys? Someone started it.
Wherever you came up with the idea to have a local friend bird dog for you is genius. or as the boys from Guiness say" BRILLIANT". What a concept.
Keep this thread right here. It's a trip report.
I have to join in with Scott and say I'm so jealous you're there and I'm here. I'll be catchin up soon.
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I was there with my sweety around Easter and the start of the political demonstrations in Independence Square, and ,ahhh ,I could not pass that ice cream place without getting the best soft ice cream I have ever had either Jack. Only all the walking and (other activities) allowed me to work off those calories. A near by restaurant also had some good food. (not mcdonalds). :D
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the other restaurant we liked nearby
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Absolutely and I consider it to be a very bad influence on all the members of RWD and mostly it produces bad effect on men , cos they all want to repeat this fake success in meeting millions of strange women..... for the sake of what? of entertainment but not for the sake of creating stable good family
Jazzy, the guys who sincerely want to find a good lady to start a family with are not influenced at all by this story. The stories that I find inspirational are the ones where love is found on here.
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Jazzy, the guys who sincerely want to find a good lady to start a family with are not influenced at all by this story. The stories that I find inspirational are the ones where love is found on here.
It is nice to know that:)
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Have a successful hunt, Jack!!!
Nightclubs… favorite places for gathering uncrowned “queens” and unknown “stars” for demonstration their cheerfulness, grace, arrogance and haughtiness with hope to be noticed by a source of money. No, I do not want to say there are not decent women in the nightclubs. There are decent, lovely women but they look dull, unexciting and not seductive on the background of the “queens” and the “stars”.
Nightclubs are magnificent places to cure emotional trams resulting from breakup with beloved. A lot of attention, flirtation, attempts of courtship, etc. all those flatter and bring sensation of joy, delight, thoughts about visible advantage of being single. So I have an assumption why you would prefer now to look for an appropriative woman in clubs. But an assumption is only the assumption.
It would be very interesting to know the causes which attract you, Jack in clubs, not in agency you cooperate with for chasing women.
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Hello guys, I will continue with follow-ups and a few opinions
First I would like to give my honest opinion as to Kiev. I do not think their is a more vibrant, more exciting city in the world today than Kiev. Not so expensive by comparison to other major cities. The traffic is not nearly as bad as many other major cities of the world and when you take all these factors, and many more into play, combined with the night life, ease to get around, living conditions, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of beautiful women, their is not a more fun city in the world to live in today. I have heard it said many times that today's Kiev is often compared to Paris of 1947-53.
Kiev see's many foreigners daily. The economy is busting. We all keep saying the real estate market is going to bust. This was said in 1999, and in 2001, and 2002, 03, 04, 05, 06 and it is even said today, the real estate market is going to bust. Yea, was I a dummy. The flat I stay in two months a year in Kiev I could have bought at one time for $90,000. But the market is going to bust and I will have over paid and it will take years for the economy to recover? This is what I thought in 2000. But more importantly than the price was the uncertainty involved with a foreign person buying property in Kiev or Ukraine. I had heard many stories of foreigners buying a flat only to have lost everything when it was discovered the person they bought the flat from was not the original owner but it was really some old lady who lived with her daughter. The Ukraine courts were not going to rule against little old lady, the foreigner lost everything. And their were many such stories.
Over the last few years things have gotten to the point where the procedure and laws for foreigners buying property here have improved to the point where it's almost like buying a condo in the states. We cannot own the land the flat is sitting on, but we can own the flat. In the next year or two foreigners will be allowed to buy farm land and we think the pricing for land will sky rocket when this happens. And oh, the cost of my flat today, 60 square meters, if I wanted to buy, $350,000.
Kiev girls see a lot of foreigners and lot's of rich foreigners who are coming for a single, not so good purpose. Many Kiev girls are getting a bit spoiled. Life is not bad here or in Odessa. Ladies are not wanting to leave just to leave but will leave if the carrot dangled in front of them is big enough. Now before we go any further I have to say my statements, my opinions are in general. Most everything I say and do today is based on percentages.
Today in my opinion it is very hard for most of our guys to find the type Ukraine/Russian woman they are looking for in Kiev. No it's not impossible, there are many fine, wonderful women here who would make great wife's, but it's taking more work, more effort and to a degree luck. In other cities, such as Krivoy Rog, Zaporozhye, Lugansk, Kherson, Nikolaev, Poltava as examples where things are a little more economically depressed we have a much better chance of finding the type Ukraine/Russian woman we are looking for. Many of these ladies in these cities are looking to leave, are looking for a better life. Ladies in these cities do not see a constant stream of foreigners. The chances, the percentages, of our clients finding good women in these cities are much higher than in Kiev or Odessa.
It's probably got by some people but we don't have parties during our spring or fall trips anymore in Kiev or Odessa. Have not had such parties in Kiev for well over a year and a half. Their is a reason for that. Now we do have a party in Kiev in late December, this year on the 27th, where we have many fine single and beautiful ladies attend our once a year Kiev party. But this time of year Kiev is one big party. From our party on the 27th most guys will find their New Years Eve date as well as several ladies they can date, see, party with during the most party time of the year for Kiev, from about Dec. 27th through January 9th. The city is one long, big, never ending party. Now even after saying all this we had two clients who found there Ukraine bride, from Kiev, on our December 28th 2006 party. So as I was saying it's not impossible to find a good wife in Kiev, but it will take work and/or maybe a little luck.
The very best purpose that Kiev and Odessa serve for our guys today is that these are wonderful places for the ladies of highest interest they met on tour to meet them again for 2-3-4 days at the end of each tour. Most of our guys have some extra days left at the end of each trip for just this purpose. So after visiting two-three-four cities and if Lesya from Kharkov, or Marina from Lugansk you had the greatest interest in, and they in the you, we arrange for the ladies to spend a few days with the man in either Odessa or Kiev, and it's usually Kiev as this is where most the men will be departing from.
Now for myself I try to reserve two weeks at the end of every tour in Kiev. A week before each tour in Kiev and two weeks at the end. The last guy who was part of our Ukraine tour left on Saturday. I started my partying on Sunday. The Finnish guy who joined me the other night was a client in town, on an individual tour, not part of the group tour. The last two weeks of each Ukraine tour I kind of reserve for my free time. I can assure you that I cannot stay out until 5am in Kharkov, or Zaporozhye or Nikolaev when I have guys to attend to each day. But the last two weeks, 10 days, after my tour clients have gone, it's my time and I enjoy it and live for these times of the year.
This morning's early observation. Went to bed early last night, woke up early this morning and went out to see the city as it was awakening. At 6-7am the city is so quite, peaceful and beautiful. Kiev is the cleanest of all the big FSU cities I have ever visited. In the early hours of the morning the underground passages are watered down with hoses. It's strange to be walking here still at 8am and seeing puddles of water. A few days ago a lady of about 45-50 slipped and fell right in front of me. I helped her up as she dusted off her white dress. I don't think she was hurt, mostly embarrassed. She feel from one of these small puddle of waters that had not evaporated. In the states the lady could have sued the city for a million dollars. Here you slip on a puddle of water sprayed by the city, or you break an ankle due to the 8 inch hole in the middle of the sidewalk, well that's just to bad here, that's life.
I noticed this morning a couple of really fine, fine ladies buying flowers in one of the underground places that sell flowers. As I was looking at this one fine blonde I wanted to tell her I would be happy to buy those flowers for her. But I was just curious as to why I was seeing these fine ladies buying flowers and I realized that maybe one of their girlfriends might be having a birthday today or something like that.
Several days ago I went to one of these places and bought 7 red roses for a lady I was meeting for dinner, price 27.5 grivnas. A few days ago went to the same place but different lady, again asked for 7 red roses, price was 40 grivnas. Sure the lady pocketed the extra money. I am a foreigner and how would I know any different. I was in a hurry and didn't feel like going to another place so paid her price.
Used to be a few years ago I could stand in front of the main metro station next to MacDonald's on Khershaytk and see thousands of beautiful ladies pouring out the main doors in the morning. Now it seems an almost equal number of women are coming out of the metro station located under Independence Square and so I do not have the same great number of beauties to photograph from the one main source, now it appears equally divided between the two.
Something else I noticed was the number of beauties coming from the metros and going to work in the morning were a much smaller percent of the short mini-skirts I see as compared to the ladies coming out of the metro after about 11am. The percentage of ladies coming to the center wearing the short mini-skirts is higher in the early afternoon as compared to the early morning work crowd. Just makes common sense I agree but this is not the case in what I was seeing 3-4-5 years ago as there were many ladies leaving the main metro subway at 8:45-9:30 wearing the short mini-skirts. But things have changed. Also I notice this spring, unlike anytime in the past, more and more ladies are wearing the short-shorts, not skirts but short-shorts. Got a few of those shots yesterday afternoon.
The city government here has gotten a little greedy with many of the vendors and food providers. Outside places that were here in the fall, and last spring, our not here today. One good example many of you can relate to is the MacDonald's at Independence Square. You recall how you have always seen chairs, tables and umbrellas out front? Not today. No chairs, no tables, no umbrellas in front of MacDonald's at Independence Square. Why? The city wanted more money for Mac to occupy this space. The large green Tent place you could buy beer, food last spring and fall just in front of the Globe on Independence Square? Not there this year, why, the city raised it's price so much the owners said forget it. And their are several other places like this in the center that are not here today.
Someone asked earlier about the name of a couple of nice night clubs with not so many, if any, working girls. I did not mention the name of the club I went to the other night where I saw the nice blonde smiling at me because I did not want to give an impression this club was bad. I do not think this club is bad and I think all clubs can and may have a few working girls. But the percentages could be like less than 5%, some real small figure. I will mention the name of this club because I do think it is a nice night club and the one working girl that was noticed should not be a factor when considering nice night clubs. The name of this club was the Caribbean Club. Some nights I do not like the music here but other nights, usually on the weekends, it's got the strong Euro beat and type dancing. And like another of the posters wrote, in America I NEVER go dancing. Once you have seen and been exposed to clubs in Ukraine or Russia, when you see and are exposed to the ladies who are in these clubs and their exciteness to dance with you, what we have in the states is absolutely no comparison. Not even close.
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It amazes me how RWD members can read a few words and jump to conclusions, frequently the wrong conclusion.
I suppose people see the term "bars", "working girls", etc. and assume that everything that happens there is sleazy.
Yes, Jack and Elena ended the evening by walking to his apartment (Mir's witty comment that Jack's stories end where Pike's begin). However, if you read Jack's posts and have the power of recall, you will realize that Jack did not pickup Elena at the bar. She is from Kherson, the two of them have evidently corresponded/communicated before, this correspondence prompted some level of mutual interest, Elena comes to Kiev for some undisclosed reason, they wish to meet, this club is a convenient meeting place for the time they intend to meet, they meet, and they like each other. I forgot to mention the part when Jack gets involved in an Alpha Male fracas that assuredly elevated his hormones.
What is wrong with that? Nothing in my opinion. I prefer to meet a woman earlier in the day, and at a place where conversation is easier and the air is free of smoke.
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Gator
I certainly never said that Jack was meeting working girls.
Jack
You have made me nostalgic for Kiev. I second you thoughts that it is one of the best cities for a vacation. I have not been there for one year, so this summer time for a visit again :)
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Jack
You have made me nostalgic for Kiev. I second you thoughts that it is one of the best cities for a vacation. I have not been there for one year, so this summer time for a visit again :)
Ah the good old days Mir.......with plenty of lovelies around you... ;)
Now you make me jealous after listening to Chivo and gone to Russia......I might follow you up in Kiev during summer......LOL
PS: What happened in Shochi? No travel report?
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Geez Jack, do you always have this effect on born again virgins and bi-polar gold diggers?
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Start 2
Please clarify what you mean?
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Anyone tried this?
http://www.life.com.ua/index.php?area=mylife&lng=en&page=3-57
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Jack
I have been to Saint Pete several times and really enjoyed that city. But after being in Kiev, there really is no comparison.( except maybe the Hermitage) My last trip was only maybe 10 weeks ago but it seems like ages. I remember quite well some of the places you mentioned, but not the clubs. O'Brians was a nice place for a beer. What I find very different was that I went to meet Lena and for some reason we never made it to the clubs. We were very content to just walk around the city, do a little shopping, sit in a cafe and have a small drink or something to eat. I guess we enjoyed each others company so much it did not really matter that we were not whooping it up in some night club. For some reason, I did not seem to miss this action. And I do love to dance! Since she had not been there since she was a little girl and I had never been there before, and we had no need to 'try and find a date', we were asleep by 12-1 and up early like around 8-9AM, and spent the days exploring much of the culture in Kiev, which is quite extensive.
I enjoy reading your posts about all the night time activity and there is much partying going on in Kiev, but to take such a long trip and 'not stop to smell the roses' on what else this fine city has to offer would be shame. I know you have made several trips there before and perhaps you have already made the rounds in this regard, but what about the guys who were with you? Would like to hear if they did anything more than drink and dance. ( and no, I do not mean after they left the clubs with the ladies ;D ) Or is this off topic?
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Hello Viking,
Like you I also enjoy St. Pete considerably. Without any doubt it is my favorite Russian city and up until about 4 years ago was my favorite FSU city.
I have never made a trip to St. Pete without visiting the Hermitage and do not think I could ever visit St. Pete without a visit to the Hermitage. I think I have been to the Hermitage now some 9 or 10 times and guess what, I have yet to see everything. It's so massive. And to think we can get within a foot of touch a Rembrandt, a Da Vinci. I think it is probably the second greatest museum in the world.
With regards to the culture side of Kiev. During my early visits in 1998, 1999, 2000 I visited all the sites (and still do occasionally today), Sophia, the Larva, the museum of old homes that covers hectors of land south of the city, the war museum, St. Andreski, etc, etc. And where my flat is located I am less than a 10 minute walk to Andreski street, the oldest street in Kiev. It gives me chills walking down this street, looking at the cobble stones that were placed there by hand maybe as long as a thousand years ago. In fact I will be walking this exact street in 20 minutes from now as I love shopping here on Saturday mornings. Maybe I'll have some fresh photos for you to see when you wake up.
Most all of the guys who come to Kiev on our trips also visit these places. This is where these guys go during the day, most the time with dates. Several of these men will bring in ladies from other cities that they meet on the trip and I would say that about 65-70% of these guys will take these women to various night clubs at night when they are in town. And why? Because these ladies want this. The Kiev night life is famous through out Ukraine. I am sure many of the men would rather spend a quite evening at home, and that usually happens one night, but when the woman you brought in from Dnepropetovsk, or Kherson, or Lugansk wants to go to disco or night clubs, you best do what she wants.
Photo of Independence Square last night. Yea I know not so much light but it's almost 9pm.
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Anyone tried this?
http://www.life.com.ua/index.php?area=mylife&lng=en&page=3-57
** The first 100 minutes of international calls are billed at UAH 1.00/minute. After the 100 minutes have been used or 30-day period has expired (whichever occurs earlier), all further international calls will be billed according to the current rates of the “Planet life:)” service. 100 minutes and the period of 30 days are calculated from the 1st day of the service activation.
Lot of small print. The first 100 minutes are at the introductory rate, or for 30 days, whichever occurs first. After that it's back to the normal rates.
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Mir, excuse me but what in the ...k does this 100 minutes of international calls have to do with this thread? :offtopic:
Here are some photos I took on the way to St. Andresky street a few hours ago.
I am at the top of the street (Zhitmerskaya) from my flat, a two minute walk from where this photo is taken. My flat is halfway down the street on the left hand side.
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Here is my flat. The balcony in the center of photo with window open. You can see the dome at Independence Square down the street. Khershatyk is three minute walk. Viking you had mentioned O'Brian's early. As I look out my kitchen widow (it's open as well) and look to my right I can see O'Brian's across the street on the corner.
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At the top of my street where I took the first photo, two minute walk from my flat, if I look to my right this is what I see.
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And if I look to my left, St. Michaels.
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As I cross the street I know I am getting close to St. Andresky when I begin to see all the paintings for sale on the side walk.
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Here is one of my favorite painters. I have probably bought over 100 paintings from this artist over the last 5-6 years. Finally a couple of years ago he began to give me a discounted price when he told me I had bought more of his paintings then anyone else.
His paintings are all of Ukraine landmarks and countryside and have been my Christmas gifts to family and friends over this same 5-6 year time frame.
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I know I am getting close to St. Andresky when I begin to see these little stands.
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And there she is, St. Andresky.
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Great pics! I've probably walked past your flat a few times. What is the name of the street where there is a small museum to a famous writer. Sorry, I don't remember the name of the writer, but the flat he lived in, is now a museum to him. It's on a cobblestone street.
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wxman I really couldn't tell you what street or writer you are referring to. I know on my building and the building down from mine, and many buildings all around, you will see a little plaque built into the side of the building honoring some famous person who lived in that building during his life.
When the TV production crew is filming us I will stay at a much nicer and bigger flat across the street from Mandolin Plaza, I call this the Golda Mier building as this was the building where Golda Mier was raised as a child.
A look down St. Andresky street.
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Jack,
The author's flat is on that street, just off to the right! The author was also a doctor and delved in science and had a room in his flat had secret rooms and his windows are tinted blue.
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wxman do you recall seeing a plaque to this author on the building?
Like I said my building and the building next to me, towards Independence Square, have such plaque's built into the building. Might be sometype small museum in that building.
This antique wind up record player was actually playing an old record when I walked by it.
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Yes, there was a plaque on the building and they give tours every hour, and serve tea at end of tour.
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wxman do you recall if this building was towards the bottom of the street, closer to Independence Square, or was it more towards the top of the street, towards St. Sopia and St. Michales?
I am in the middle of the street and on the right hand side. I often spend hours watching people walk by and talking to them and have never seen such a tour. I suspect it must be towards to top of the street.
Look at these cobblestones that make up part of the original Andreski street. These very stones could have been hand placed 1000 years ago.
Ok, now heading to Khershatyk where maybe I can find something interesting ;) to photograph.
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Yes, it's toward the top of the street further back in your picture. I will have to ask my gal the name of author. It's her favorite author. Gone through the tour twice now.
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The author is Michael Bulgakov, who wrote 'Master and Margareta' one of the most famous book of modern Russian literature that has a cult following in Russia/Ukraine.
He also wrote many other books.
The photo in my avatar has the door of the said house/museum in the background (13 Andreyevaksy Spusk).
Jack's photo above the gramophone one shows 'Richard's Castle' at no. 15, named after Richard I from Ivanhoe.
Further down at 2B is 'Museum of One Street' well worth a visit as it gives a history of this street through artifacts of those who lived there.
Yes no doubt the most enchanting street in Kiev
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Mir,
Thank you! That's the author!
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wzman
You are wellcome, and do read the book. It is available free online.
It is quite funny and enjoyable, certainly a good read.
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I had forgotten the name of the street, but yeah, a great place to find some very interesting things to bring home.
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Ken
I am not forcing anything on anyone.
Jack
WRONG! Don't you know that by merely *mentioning* something that you are ipso facto trying to *force* it ? ;)
Oh yeah, nice photos Jack.
And re: Dnepropetrovsk, the D is virtually silent.
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knee pa per trosk. Your right Wmgo. I have heard many people pronounce it without the D, simply knee pa per trosk. But have heard some locals pronounce with a slight d, duh knee pa per trosk. Ok, thanks for the always appreciated lessons.
So, just got back from a little stroll on Khershatyk. (kerr shat tic)
But before I show a few photos, couple of tidbit's of information.
Cost of a vanilla milk shake at Baskins Robbins, any guesses?
Remember I mentioned the MacDonald's at Independence Square had no chairs, tables or umbrellas? Today for the first time this year chairs and tables were set. No umbrellas but are probably coming. My guess is Mac balked, city officials saw this and probably reached a compromise. After all no one else could really use the space in front of MacDonald's but MacDonald's.
Most the year, and last year, the grivna has pretty much leveled at 5.02 to the dollar (502 grivnas per hundred dollar). Recently the Ukraine government has come out with a new currency, had one a few days ago (but it went quick) and it's a new 500 grivna note, or 100 dollars. Previous high currency was the 200 note, or $40.
Cost of a vanilla milk shake at Baskins Robbins,..............$6.
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:)
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WRONG! Don't you know that by merely *mentioning* something that you are ipso facto trying to *force* it ?
If meant as a joke it is funny, if a serious comment then it is crap :)
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;)
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:D
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;D
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8)
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:P
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:-*
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whoaaaa, was the site down in America as well? The RWD was down on this side of the ocean for about 45 minutes, were you down in the states as well?
Ok, here are some photos of a couple of women who got my attention.
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:) :D
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:D ;D
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After these ladies were through playing in the fountain as they were leaving they walked to within about 2-3 feet of me. I had to say something. So when they were as close as they were going to get I said, "Thanks for the many nice photos" to which the red head in almost perfect English said "your welcome".
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:)
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This lady was a little interesting. She saw me taking photos of various ladies, just as she saw me taking a photo of her. I think she was almost posing for me. I took many more photos of her than what I have posted here as she would look at me, then change her stance and look this way, then that way.
She stood there for about 7-8 minutes, and like I say she would see me taking photos of various other ladies as well. Finally she decided to move from this location and she walked right in front of me, about 3-4 feet and I smiled big at her as she walked by and she smiled big at me. I wasn't going to take her photo from behind, as she had seen me taking photos of other ladies from behind as well, but I thought, what the heck, why not. So as she was about 10 feet from me and walking away, as I put my photo up about to take her photo she turned around and looked at me for just a split second, long enough to see I was going to take her photo, and she had a big smile on her face. I think she was glad to see that she qualified for a photo from behind as she saw me only taking photos of select ladies. I know it sounds crazy but I think it made her day.
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8)
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What's up with the ho train Jack? hehe just kidding.
I was going to say that these women are all unattractive until I saw that last one. :o
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I would have said something similar; however, more appropriate would have been - Hey Jack, these women look like American women. ;D
Actually, they are "all" beautiful!
Thanks JackMan,
Macman
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Hello guys, I will continue with follow-ups and a few opinions
First I would like to give my honest opinion as to Kiev. I do not think their is a more vibrant, more exciting city in the world today than Kiev. Not so expensive by comparison to other major cities. The traffic is not nearly as bad as many other major cities of the world and when you take all these factors, and many more into play, combined with the night life, ease to get around, living conditions, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of beautiful women, their is not a more fun city in the world to live in today. I have heard it said many times that today's Kiev is often compared to Paris of 1947-53.
Kiev see's many foreigners daily. The economy is busting. We all keep saying the real estate market is going to bust. This was said in 1999, and in 2001, and 2002, 03, 04, 05, 06 and it is even said today, the real estate market is going to bust. Yea, was I a dummy. The flat I stay in two months a year in Kiev I could have bought at one time for $90,000. But the market is going to bust and I will have over paid and it will take years for the economy to recover? This is what I thought in 2000. But more importantly than the price was the uncertainty involved with a foreign person buying property in Kiev or Ukraine. I had heard many stories of foreigners buying a flat only to have lost everything when it was discovered the person they bought the flat from was not the original owner but it was really some old lady who lived with her daughter. The Ukraine courts were not going to rule against little old lady, the foreigner lost everything. And their were many such stories.
Over the last few years things have gotten to the point where the procedure and laws for foreigners buying property here have improved to the point where it's almost like buying a condo in the states. We cannot own the land the flat is sitting on, but we can own the flat. In the next year or two foreigners will be allowed to buy farm land and we think the pricing for land will sky rocket when this happens. And oh, the cost of my flat today, 60 square meters, if I wanted to buy, $350,000.
Kiev girls see a lot of foreigners and lot's of rich foreigners who are coming for a single, not so good purpose. Many Kiev girls are getting a bit spoiled. Life is not bad here or in Odessa. Ladies are not wanting to leave just to leave but will leave if the carrot dangled in front of them is big enough. Now before we go any further I have to say my statements, my opinions are in general. Most everything I say and do today is based on percentages.
Today in my opinion it is very hard for most of our guys to find the type Ukraine/Russian woman they are looking for in Kiev. No it's not impossible, there are many fine, wonderful women here who would make great wife's, but it's taking more work, more effort and to a degree luck. In other cities, such as Krivoy Rog, Zaporozhye, Lugansk, Kherson, Nikolaev, Poltava as examples where things are a little more economically depressed we have a much better chance of finding the type Ukraine/Russian woman we are looking for. Many of these ladies in these cities are looking to leave, are looking for a better life. Ladies in these cities do not see a constant stream of foreigners. The chances, the percentages, of our clients finding good women in these cities are much higher than in Kiev or Odessa.
It's probably got by some people but we don't have parties during our spring or fall trips anymore in Kiev or Odessa. Have not had such parties in Kiev for well over a year and a half. Their is a reason for that. Now we do have a party in Kiev in late December, this year on the 27th, where we have many fine single and beautiful ladies attend our once a year Kiev party. But this time of year Kiev is one big party. From our party on the 27th most guys will find their New Years Eve date as well as several ladies they can date, see, party with during the most party time of the year for Kiev, from about Dec. 27th through January 9th. The city is one long, big, never ending party. Now even after saying all this we had two clients who found there Ukraine bride, from Kiev, on our December 28th 2006 party. So as I was saying it's not impossible to find a good wife in Kiev, but it will take work and/or maybe a little luck.
The very best purpose that Kiev and Odessa serve for our guys today is that these are wonderful places for the ladies of highest interest they met on tour to meet them again for 2-3-4 days at the end of each tour. Most of our guys have some extra days left at the end of each trip for just this purpose. So after visiting two-three-four cities and if Lesya from Kharkov, or Marina from Lugansk you had the greatest interest in, and they in the you, we arrange for the ladies to spend a few days with the man in either Odessa or Kiev, and it's usually Kiev as this is where most the men will be departing from.
Now for myself I try to reserve two weeks at the end of every tour in Kiev. A week before each tour in Kiev and two weeks at the end. The last guy who was part of our Ukraine tour left on Saturday. I started my partying on Sunday. The Finnish guy who joined me the other night was a client in town, on an individual tour, not part of the group tour. The last two weeks of each Ukraine tour I kind of reserve for my free time. I can assure you that I cannot stay out until 5am in Kharkov, or Zaporozhye or Nikolaev when I have guys to attend to each day. But the last two weeks, 10 days, after my tour clients have gone, it's my time and I enjoy it and live for these times of the year.
This morning's early observation. Went to bed early last night, woke up early this morning and went out to see the city as it was awakening. At 6-7am the city is so quite, peaceful and beautiful. Kiev is the cleanest of all the big FSU cities I have ever visited. In the early hours of the morning the underground passages are watered down with hoses. It's strange to be walking here still at 8am and seeing puddles of water. A few days ago a lady of about 45-50 slipped and fell right in front of me. I helped her up as she dusted off her white dress. I don't think she was hurt, mostly embarrassed. She feel from one of these small puddle of waters that had not evaporated. In the states the lady could have sued the city for a million dollars. Here you slip on a puddle of water sprayed by the city, or you break an ankle due to the 8 inch hole in the middle of the sidewalk, well that's just to bad here, that's life.
I noticed this morning a couple of really fine, fine ladies buying flowers in one of the underground places that sell flowers. As I was looking at this one fine blonde I wanted to tell her I would be happy to buy those flowers for her. But I was just curious as to why I was seeing these fine ladies buying flowers and I realized that maybe one of their girlfriends might be having a birthday today or something like that.
Several days ago I went to one of these places and bought 7 red roses for a lady I was meeting for dinner, price 27.5 grivnas. A few days ago went to the same place but different lady, again asked for 7 red roses, price was 40 grivnas. Sure the lady pocketed the extra money. I am a foreigner and how would I know any different. I was in a hurry and didn't feel like going to another place so paid her price.
Used to be a few years ago I could stand in front of the main metro station next to MacDonald's on Khershaytk and see thousands of beautiful ladies pouring out the main doors in the morning. Now it seems an almost equal number of women are coming out of the metro station located under Independence Square and so I do not have the same great number of beauties to photograph from the one main source, now it appears equally divided between the two.
Something else I noticed was the number of beauties coming from the metros and going to work in the morning were a much smaller percent of the short mini-skirts I see as compared to the ladies coming out of the metro after about 11am. The percentage of ladies coming to the center wearing the short mini-skirts is higher in the early afternoon as compared to the early morning work crowd. Just makes common sense I agree but this is not the case in what I was seeing 3-4-5 years ago as there were many ladies leaving the main metro subway at 8:45-9:30 wearing the short mini-skirts. But things have changed. Also I notice this spring, unlike anytime in the past, more and more ladies are wearing the short-shorts, not skirts but short-shorts. Got a few of those shots yesterday afternoon.
The city government here has gotten a little greedy with many of the vendors and food providers. Outside places that were here in the fall, and last spring, our not here today. One good example many of you can relate to is the MacDonald's at Independence Square. You recall how you have always seen chairs, tables and umbrellas out front? Not today. No chairs, no tables, no umbrellas in front of MacDonald's at Independence Square. Why? The city wanted more money for Mac to occupy this space. The large green Tent place you could buy beer, food last spring and fall just in front of the Globe on Independence Square? Not there this year, why, the city raised it's price so much the owners said forget it. And their are several other places like this in the center that are not here today.
Someone asked earlier about the name of a couple of nice night clubs with not so many, if any, working girls. I did not mention the name of the club I went to the other night where I saw the nice blonde smiling at me because I did not want to give an impression this club was bad. I do not think this club is bad and I think all clubs can and may have a few working girls. But the percentages could be like less than 5%, some real small figure. I will mention the name of this club because I do think it is a nice night club and the one working girl that was noticed should not be a factor when considering nice night clubs. The name of this club was the Caribbean Club. Some nights I do not like the music here but other nights, usually on the weekends, it's got the strong Euro beat and type dancing. And like another of the posters wrote, in America I NEVER go dancing. Once you have seen and been exposed to clubs in Ukraine or Russia, when you see and are exposed to the ladies who are in these clubs and their exciteness to dance with you, what we have in the states is absolutely no comparison. Not even close.
I totaly agree with you Jack when it comes to Odessa and Kiev. It is much harder to find girl in this 2 beautiful citys who are looking for a forreign man. I have said this since last year, but every time some other members at this board has said that I am wrong. But I am happy that you who maybe are the most exsperienced at this board has seen the same as me..Kiev and Odessa are cool citys and I totaly adore Kiev, but it is very hard to find sincere girls in this citys. I belive that you told me in 2005 that Odessa was "out fished":))
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Thor, cracks me up. I think you Jack meant fished out. lol.
Wow Jack my imagination is running wild. in pics 1915d and e. What could this girl be doing. Wish that was a film clip!!!! :D
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If meant as a joke it is funny, if a serious comment then it is crap :)
Sorry Mir, it was sarcastic humor - that is why I used the smiley face with a wink. Unfortunately however, there are some people who actually think that way.....
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Thor,
Thanks for the compliment, obviously I must be outstanding :angel:.
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WmGo
OK no problems :)
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Thor, cracks me up. I think you Jack meant fished out. lol.
Wow Jack my imagination is running wild. in pics 1915d and e. What could this girl be doing. Wish that was a film clip!!!! :D
Ok. Anyway there is a LOT more forreign men coming to Kiev and Odessa compered to citys like Poltava, Dnieper, Kharkov, Kherson and so on. Not so many "golddigers" in smaller citys or citys in the eastern Ukraine. I guess that it is a very good reasson that Jack left out Kiev and Odessa in his tours, or what??
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Thor,
As you say, not many Kiev and Odessa women wanting to marry foreign men. So I must be outstanding in comparison. Thanks ;).
ps. my wife is from Odessa :)
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Thor,
As you say, not many Kiev and Odessa women wanting to marry foreign men. So I must be outstanding in comparison. Thanks ;).
ps. my wife is from Odessa :)
;)
I have been to Odessa and I saw so many hot girl there...But at every corner a US or European guy. The comoetition is very hard in Odessa.
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Start2 I can tell you exactly what this girl was doing in the photo. Her red headed friend was taking pictures of her off to the side in a position that made it look like she was, well, you know, what us guys can do in that position but girls really can't.
They thought it was funny and having a grand time. They were just playing, enjoying being young and hot looking. It was a warm day and their were several other guys and girls in various fountains as well. Once I get back to the states I have a few thousand photos to go through and will be able to post others once I can get caught up from some of my duties that await me.
Muj, please do not be offended for various opinions expressed, none are personal {well, some exceptions such as rude jazzy being able to express her personal feelings about me. I tried in turn to express my personal feelings about her, as she did about me, and my opinions were deleted. Seems my personal feelings seemed a bit harsh to management).
Kiev and Odessa of course have many fine women. Like you I also married a wonderful woman from Odessa. But what I am saying Muj is that a LOT of the finest, hottest women in these cities, both those listed with marriage agencies and those not, know they are hot and in high demand from either local guys or foreign man. Many of these women are seeing a lot of guys. And because these hot ladies have so many men to choose from then they are of course picking the men who can give them the most, are not 15-20 years older and handsome.
Of course their are many good women in Kiev and Odessa. I had two clients find good Kiev wives from our 2006-2007 Christmas/New Years tour to Kiev. It's not impossible, not saying it is, but what I am saying is that a great many ladies from Kiev and Odessa see a lot more foreign men that ladies from other Ukraine cities. Life is not so bad in Kiev and Odessa and these women are just not willing to leave for any man. In cities that are more economically depressed some fine ladies are not being as choosey as their counterparts from Kiev and Odessa.
Many of these women, and of course I am not saying all Kiev and Odessa ladies, but many of these women have become just a little to westernized, many of these women have lost some of the traditional values that many of us are seeking.
I try to go with as high of percentages as possible for our clients and as such am seeing and having a lot more success in cities off the beaten path were their are not thousands of foreigners in town everyday, which is the case in Kiev and Odessa.
Kiev is a wonderful party city, as is Odessa. No other cities in Ukraine can match these two in that aspect.
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Jack,
Maybe the future wife having some understanding of western culture is helpful. :)
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Jack,
many of these women have become just a little to westernized…have lost some of the traditional values that many of us are seeking.
Muj,
Maybe the future wife having some understanding of western culture is helpful.
Will UW not adjust to western ways when they are in the West? I see the point that if they are losing their traditional values already in Ukraine, they could become very westernized upon landing here. There is the counterpoint that this is a predictive litmus test of what she will become.
My hope is to meld the best from the West and the best from her culture. Impossible? Possible?
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My hope is to meld the best from the West and the best from her culture. Impossible? Possible?
Gator,
I like to think that Lena has captured this idea.
KenC
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How can the work "competition" be used in this already slanted field?
AND, if you create a field that is VERY, VERY slanted ... you go out of your league and get lucky ... then what?!?!?
You and your great catch must live in a can for the rest of your natural life - or until her beauty fads???