Should I even bother with agencies/sites if I am fluent in Russian?

[Faux Pas]

Are you saying AW or WW are in any way better than UW? AW are NOT feminine, not traditional, mostly disgusting fat, career-obsessed and very selfish. It's a matter of selecting lesser evil. I don't need to justify myself anyway, I have every good reason to be with UW. I tried to have a serious relationship with AW and it was horrible. I accidentally met and successfully dated 3 girls in college - one from Russia,  one from Belarus, and one from Poland. They were WAY different from AW and it was the only time I loved someone. They all were exchange students and had to go back...

For a semi-Ukrainian, you don't seem to have a positive opinion about UW. Do you also consider yourself a heavy gold digger?

Ah I see. A couple of American women kicked you to the curb, eh? 

[MonarchXYZ]

Ah I see. A couple of American women kicked you to the curb, eh? 

No I kicked THEM. What is with all this defense of AW? Why are you even on these forums if you love AW so much?

[Boethius]

Are you saying AW or WW are in any way better than UW? AW are NOT feminine, not traditional, mostly disgusting fat, career-obsessed and very selfish. It's a matter of selecting lesser evil.

I am not saying WW are better than UW, nor do I believe that.  Nor do I believe UW are better than WW. 

In my travels to the US, I see many slim, attractive AW.  Weight tends to be a middle age thing. 

If you believe that you are choosing a "lesser evil", then you are likely, at some point, to fail.

I don't need to justify myself anyway, I have every good reason to be with UW. I tried to have a serious relationship with AW and it was horrible. I accidentally met and successfully dated 3 girls in college - one from Russia,  one from Belarus, and one from Poland. They were WAY different from AW and it was the only time I loved someone. They all were exchange students and had to go back...

I didn't say you have to justify yourself. 

For a semi-Ukrainian, you don't seem to have a positive opinion about UW. Do you also consider yourself a heavy gold digger?

Hmm, I lived in Ukraine as an adult, so I have seen a lot in Ukrainians that most here have not.  But I didn't state my opinion.  I stated my husband's opinion.  He is a Kyianin, born and bred, lived there for more than 3 decades.  He's seen the worst, and the best, in people.  I tend to look for the good.  He tends to be neutral.  I would say he is a realist, who can size people up very quickly because his survival in the USSR depended on it.

No, I am many things, but I have never been a gold digger.

UW are women and fall in love with local Ukrainians, so I do not see why the same can't happen with handsome in-shape Ukrainians who live in USA with good stable jobs. I consider myself an all-in-one package .  Most AM and many WM are old, out of shape, naive, ugly, don't speak Russian, don't understand Ukrainian humor, etc. Why love them? It only makes sense to use them! I have none of these shortcomings.

The attitude of "using" others is repugnant, no matter where it comes from.

[Boethius]

No I kicked THEM. What is with all this defense of AW? Why are you even on these forums if you love AW so much?

From what I have observed, those who have issues with women in their own countries usually have issues with FSUW as well.

[ML]

No I kicked THEM. What is with all this defense of AW? Why are you even on these forums if you love AW so much?

You are being rather silly with your putting FSUW on a pedestal.  They are virtually no different from WW, except in one characteristic.

This one characteristic is they tend to be more slender than WW in their 30s, 40s, and 50s.  But this doesn't last forever with most of them, if you have taken the time to look at most Babushka's; however, even there, they rarely become obese.

The other advantage for men in looking to FSU for a female mate is that the men can trade up on several characteristics while many of the FSUW are willing to trade down on several characteristics.

This imbalance is strictly due to the economics of the situation. 

But the good news is that; while the FSUW will trade down with a WM (whereas a WW rarely will), there can be true love that develops between the two of them over time.

[Faux Pas]

No I kicked THEM. What is with all this defense of AW? Why are you even on these forums if you love AW so much?

Hurts don't it? 

I'm not defending anything but I certainly know women better than you do. I know FSUW better than you and you had one for a mother 

BTW this isn't a forum for jilted men who hate AW although sometimes it does take on that particular air.

[tfcrew]

  AW are NOT feminine, not traditional, mostly disgusting fat, career-obsessed and very selfish. 
 

Statements in that post are mostly bravado and tend to paint execrable tendencies with a broad brush.
Many modern young eastern European ladies are keen to the feminist scene as are their Western counterparts.
In this world, many folks are 'loose' people and that's how it is.
You can get what you want or find what you need.

[MonarchXYZ]

Hurts don't it? 

I'm not defending anything but I certainly know women better than you do. I know FSUW better than you and you had one for a mother 

BTW this isn't a forum for jilted men who hate AW although sometimes it does take on that particular air.

Point taken. UW are not feminine, not more attractive than AW,  almost all are gold diggers, unable to love, and in general suck, while AW are the opposite and awesome. You guys are TROLLS defending AW on FSUW forums and no, you do not know UW better than me. I lived there for 13 years and unlike you, I can speak Russian fluently without any accent. UW are smart and know how to play men well, especially naive Americans. Do you know how many times I saw UW and AM together talking in English, her being so sweet and nice to him, him buying it, then she tells her friends "Fat fagott..." to describe him in Russian? The vast majority of AM who visit Ukraine are just as obese as AW + old and no normal woman would want to be with a man like that, so those guys end up with gold diggers and wonder why after marriage those women refused to sleep with them (happens all the time), while normal UW end up with local men who they truly care for, even if those men are poor. I AM local and foreign to them because I live in US for and have a good job, but that is just one asset. You have to have a lot more than that if you want to find someone who actually cares for you, and doesn't just pretend to care to move to US or wherever. Besides, some 90 percent of UW will marry UM and many of them would never leave UA or want to be with a foreign man. Many do not understand foreign men, their humor, their mostly disgusting appearance (never saw a young fit AM in US, almost all were fat and old), although there are ezceptions. I happen to be local AND foreign at the same time.

I don't have any issues dating AW either. I've been spoiled with their attention, constant approaching, constant compliments, etc. Being Ukrainian in US has a lot of benefits and depending on where you live, you can be very exotic. I think AW are good for short non-serious flings, but are terrible for serious long-term relationships.

Oh and everyone uses everyone, but most do not think in those terms. If you love someone because of how they make you feel then you technically use them and their qualities to achieve that feeling. There is always a trade, but it's one thing to trade your qualities for love and another to trade your qualities ONLY for citizenship and money, a scenario I would not be happy with.

[Boethius]

Point taken. UW are not feminine, not more attractive than AW,  almost all are gold diggers, unable to love, and in general suck, while AW are the opposite and awesome.

Nobody is saying that. There are over 100 million AW.  Surely some of them are attractive.

You guys are TROLLS defending AW on FSUW forums and no, you do not know UW better than me. I lived there for 13 years and unlike you, I can speak Russian fluently without any accent.

Actually, I think I do know UW better than you do.  I can speak Russian as well, though I do have an accent.  But, most people assume I am Polish, not Western.  It's only my wooden "l" that gives me away, otherwise, they'd assume I'm from Western Ukraine.

UW are smart and know how to play men well, especially naive Americans. Do you know how many times I saw UW and AM together talking in English, her being so sweet and nice to him, him buying it, then she tells her friends "Fat fagott..." to describe him in Russian? The vast majority of AM who visit Ukraine are just as obese as AW + old and no normal woman would want to be with a man like that, so those guys end up with gold diggers and wonder why after marriage those women refused to sleep with them (happens all the time), while normal UW end up with local men who they truly care for, even if those men are poor.

Hmm.  Why do I have the feeling your mother married an obese American to escape Ukraine?

I AM local and foreign to them because I live in US for and have a good job, but that is just one asset. You have to have a lot more than that if you want to find someone who actually cares for you, and doesn't just pretend to care to move to US or wherever. Besides, some 90 percent of UW will marry UM and many of them would never leave UA or want to be with a foreign man. Many do not understand foreign men, their humor, their mostly disgusting appearance (never saw a young fit AM in US, almost all were fat and old), although there are ezceptions. I happen to be local AND foreign at the same time.

You're not local.  You are now American.  You are not planning on living in Ukraine, are you?  You're not travelling on a Ukrainian passport.

Oh and everyone uses everyone, but most do not think in those terms. If you love someone because of how they make you feel then you technically use them and their qualities to achieve that feeling. There is always a trade, but it's one thing to trade your qualities for love and another to trade your qualities ONLY for citizenship and money, a scenario I would not be happy with.

That's not a very deep understanding of love.

[Anotherkiwi]

Haven't we seen some of this attitude from another young poster in the recent past? 

Nobody is saying that. There are over 100 million AW.  Surely some of them are attractive.

They must be, or the Miss USA pageant, and all its subsidiaries, wouldn't exist.  Heck, there are even three or four winners in the last 25 years that I've thought were reasonably attractive! 

[Slumba]

Monarch, your views and the opposing views of AW vs. FSUW, have been debated for literally, over 100 pages' worth of posts on this forum.  You will definitely get a lot more "heat" than "light" on this subject.

All the men telling you that FSUW and AW are the same... still somehow managed to prefer an FSUW enough to marry them, it was purely an accident! 

Boethius has her own set of views, in relationships she is very smart and perceptive I think.  However, she does not know the fat, slovenly side of AW because there are not many of them where she lives; it's a credit to her choices in life that she lives in the community/society she does and thus, she rarely sees the "people of WalMart" types.

Statistics certainly show that AW are on average, more likely to be obese than a woman of the same age, in other countries.  This cannot really be set aside or gainsaid: it is simply the truth.

Unfortunately, rising car ownership and prepared foods are gaining ground in FSU, leading to some gaining some weight.

I think my advice to you, would be to confirm you in the idea of searching in Ukraine or even Russia or Belarus.  I would suggest, given your fluency, that you go and live in the FSU for at least 3 months, and while there, focus on building up a network of friends rather than just pursuing dating. 

In every city there are English language schools, either volunteering or getting a job there would help you meet just the kind of studious, slightly to very ambitious, Western-looking women you want.  Alternatively, any major city like Kiev, Moscow, StP etc. will have plenty of opportunity for you to use both Russian and English in any sort of job or social event.

Final thought: some self-reflection is needed, and some thought: what is truly non-negotiable for you in a girl? What are some signs (aside from hotness) that you really have "met the one" - or is that in itself a notion you don't pay attention to?  The better defined in your mind, the desired girl is in terms of mental/spiritual/personality characteristics, the easier it will be for you to sort them out.

(I have found that reading Marcus Aurelius' book, "Meditations" was very helpful in having the right mindset when dealing with setbacks and problems, which are inevitable in this search.)

[MonarchXYZ]

Slumba,

Very nice post - thank you. Too bad I can only stay a month there, but I have a lot of relatives and siblings and some friends there that I know. Stopping my career to teach English and not have a job to go back to in USA would be a complete turn off for FSUW...

Boe,

That is your opinion and I do respect it, but you wrong on several fronts. First of all, Ukraine made me who I am today and my passport states "Birth Place: Ukraine". Calling me American is like saying Michael Jackson was white... Besides, when I was in process of getting US Citizenship, I had one hand on my heart, no vtoroj rukoj derzhal duliu v karmane . Besides, nobody in US would think I am a foreigner UNLESS I tell them where I live. You are also of false belief that UW are unable to care for foreigners and will only use them. That applies to the older naive Americans who flash their pockets and are ugly, fat, unable to speak good Russian. Of course they will get used! Why not use them?  However, you are ignoring the non-naive, young, attractive, Russian-speaking semi- foreigners who can very much be an all-in-one package option for husband material.

[ML]

All the men telling you that FSUW and AW are the same... still somehow managed to prefer an FSUW enough to marry them, it was purely an accident! 

You are missing the point; at least my point.

For any desirable gal you find in FSU, she has an exact counterpart here in USA.

The very big difference is the gal in FSU will go for you, whereas the USA gal will not go for you.

This is strictly due to economics.

But when guys go off on the idea that FSUW are superior to AW with respect to several variables . . . that's when the pipe dreaming occurs.

The FSUW are only better (in general) in one variable . . . slenderness.

And they are different in the one other fact I mentioned . . . the FSU gal you rate at 88.789 (on some overall scale) will take you.  Her USA 88.789 counterpart will not take you.

That's why the guys here 'somehow managed' to end up with FSU gals.

Economics, economics, economics !!!

However, true love can also develop.

But not for Monarch.

[Gator]

But when guys go off on the idea that FSUW are superior to AW with respect to several variables . . . that's when the pipe dreaming occurs.

The FSUW are only better (in general) in one variable . . . slenderness.

There are many mentality differences, some good, some not so good.  There are other physical differences but nothing as notable as body weight.

And they are different in the one other fact I mentioned . . . the FSU gal you rate at 88.789 (on some overall scale) will take you.  Her USA 88.789 counterpart will not take you.

I found a few AW in the 8-9 range who wanted to spend time with me.  None proved compatible for various reasons, some of it my fault.  The few AW were far outnumbered by the  RW in that range who wanted to spend time with me.  This is the key difference.  With more choices, one is eventually able to find a compatible mentality.    And that is the key to an enduring, happy relationship.

Economics, economics, economics !!!

For sure a man must be able to support a woman in the style she expects.   I would say opportunity is just as important as economics, and security/stability too.  These are a function of government and culture, particularly business culture.

[MonarchXYZ]

You are literally buying a wife then. I am pretty sure someone said that if you have problems dating AW then you will have problems dating FSUW. You obviously do have problems since AW don't want you in which case FSUW want you PURELY for money. Yet you expect love? I hope you are young, in excellent shape, have awesome facial aesthetics, very mucho and aggressive confident personality, can fluently speak Russian, and have an excellent job. If not, your chances of finding true love are all to none. You are just like all other naive Americans who visit FSU and are clueless about it. Over there, women are the players and they will use you for whatever you got, then likely ditch you or tell you they do not want sex after marriage and end up hooking up with another man. That is assuming money is all you have going for you and that seems to be the case...

I don't have problems with AW and I explained how they spoil me with attention, but they mostly want sex from me, to be friends with benefits, etc. They do not want a serious relationship with me or any other men because they are feminists and think they do not need men at all, except for getting laid. It is WAY easier to get laid in US than in UA, but my play-days are coming to an end and I want a serious relationship with traditional family. FSUW are best for that. EVERY Eastern European successful man I knew in college went back home to either Russia, Ukraine, Romania, or Poland and all found beautiful wives and they are all happy with kids.  Those I knew who married AW are divorced already and with or without kids. FSUW revel in their femininity  while AW's generally hate men because most are fat and ugly and know that men do not want them.  Both AW and FSUW are similar in many ways, but there are some major differences, important differences.

Íp..

[Boethius]

Monarch, your views and the opposing views of AW vs. FSUW, have been debated for literally, over 100 pages' worth of posts on this forum.  You will definitely get a lot more "heat" than "light" on this subject.

All the men telling you that FSUW and AW are the same... still somehow managed to prefer an FSUW enough to marry them, it was purely an accident! 

Boethius has her own set of views, in relationships she is very smart and perceptive I think.  However, she does not know the fat, slovenly side of AW because there are not many of them where she lives; it's a credit to her choices in life that she lives in the community/society she does and thus, she rarely sees the "people of WalMart" types.

Statistics certainly show that AW are on average, more likely to be obese than a woman of the same age, in other countries.  This cannot really be set aside or gainsaid: it is simply the truth.

Unfortunately, rising car ownership and prepared foods are gaining ground in FSU, leading to some gaining some weight.

I think my advice to you, would be to confirm you in the idea of searching in Ukraine or even Russia or Belarus.  I would suggest, given your fluency, that you go and live in the FSU for at least 3 months, and while there, focus on building up a network of friends rather than just pursuing dating. 

You probably do not encounter many "people of Wal-Mart" in your social milieu, either.

[Boethius]

I don't have problems with AW and I explained how they spoil me with attention, but they mostly want sex from me, to be friends with benefits, etc. They do not want a serious relationship with me or any other men because they are feminists and think they do not need men at all, except for getting laid. It is WAY easier to get laid in US than in UA, but my play-days are coming to an end and I want a serious relationship with traditional family. FSUW are best for that. EVERY Eastern European successful man I knew in college went back home to either Russia, Ukraine, Romania, or Poland and all found beautiful wives and they are all happy with kids.  Those I knew who married AW are divorced already and with or without kids. FSUW revel in their femininity  while AW's generally hate men because most are fat and ugly and know that men do not want them.  Both AW and FSUW are similar in many ways, but there are some major differences, important differences.

Íp..

The average age of a bride in a first marriage in the US is 29, in Ukraine, 27.  I suspect the difference has to do with schooling and debt, rather than feminism.

As for sex, laughable.   There are areas in Kyiv you can visit to find a woman for the night, based on what her kink is.  Has been thus since at least the 1970's.  My husband was hit on far more often in Ukraine, and still is despite now being over the hill, than he has ever been here.

Your idealization of UW is naive.  It's as if you need to justify yourself.

First of all, Ukraine made me who I am today and my passport states "Birth Place: Ukraine". Calling me American is like saying Michael Jackson was white... Besides, when I was in process of getting US Citizenship, I had one hand on my heart, no vtoroj rukoj derzhal duliu v karmane . Besides, nobody in US would think I am a foreigner UNLESS I tell them where I live. You are also of false belief that UW are unable to care for foreigners and will only use them. That applies to the older naive Americans who flash their pockets and are ugly, fat, unable to speak good Russian. Of course they will get used! Why not use them?  However, you are ignoring the non-naive, young, attractive, Russian-speaking semi- foreigners who can very much be an all-in-one package option for husband material.

Other than the "use them" comments, which I suspect has more to do with your own familial situation than anything else,  your own attitudes here tell me you are not Ukrainian in your outlook.   You attended American schools, you work for an American company, you plan on importing a wife rather than living in Ukraine.  So, you are, in fact, American.

You are also of false belief that UW are unable to care for foreigners and will only use them.

I never stated that.

[MonarchXYZ]

Boe, now I know for a fact that you are not Ukrainian, probably not a woman, but definitely a forum troll.

Thanks to those who helped, I appreciate it. Next time I post will be after my trip and we'll see what happens.

[Boethius]

I am Ukrainian by ethnicity.

I am a woman. 

I have opinions. Whether or not you view me as a troll, or, for that matter, Ukrainian or a woman,  is irrelevant to me.

[Gator]

It is time for whoever morphed from Dragonkid to Monarch to confess your true identity. 

Some advice for you:  when you morph you should try to improve. All you have changed is to claim you now speak Russian.  Even your name of "Monarch" as in the grand butterfly species, a product of metamorphosis,  belies you. 

[Darth_Budda]

In Ukraine.. I am the American Monkey in the Ukrainian zoo..
In New York,, Vika is the Ukrainian Monkey in the American Zoo..

People just like monkeys... They like what is different...

So I think it is normal for WM to get attention in a foreign country..
And a EW to get more attention in the west...

[Boethius]

It is time for whoever morphed from Dragonkid to Monarch to confess your true identity. 

Some advice for you:  when you morph you should try to improve. All you have changed is to claim you now speak Russian.  Even your name of "Monarch" as in the grand butterfly species, a product of metamorphosis,  belies you.

I don't believe Monarch is a returned poster.  I do believe he is an American originally from Ukraine.

[CaptB]

Gator, I always enjoy your posts......brief and to the point. For me...I like the process of writing.....so am sometimes a little more long-winded. I remember on the old RWG a few poster's who "morphed" a few times (Stroh's....like the beer comes to mind). A brief study of their "spelling" mistakes.....usually led to their being "found out". If it walks like a duck....talks like a duck......but mainly "spells" like a duck......then it was a duck (or a Stroh's).


Capt B

[DearGod]

If you are better looking than the average WM who seeks a FSUW, good on you, it will help your chances . You are definitely jaded from WM, but nothing different than the guys on here, so you will do fine as long as they do fine, which they do by paying for their wives affections.  The women there will see you as an escape route though, your are not really a FSUM mentality, you are a jaded western man.

[BorisS]

One of the reasons I ended up in the FSU was that my AW ex-wife is very attractive and very traditional and sweet. I could get one or the other here but not both it seems so off I went...:-)))