Tver trip/agency report

[Jazzyclassy]

Greetings all

I originally was not going to post a trip report, but then decided "what the hell, I've got a couple of hours before the game starts"

  The trip started out with me arriving at the airport and looking forward to visiting Russia only to discover that Delta had overbooked the flight and I was the odd man out.  The desk clerk told me I would have to call customer service for further assistance. Customer service told me that all flights were booked and I would not be able to leave for a week, unless I wanted to pay an extra $2000.00 for business class . I explained that I wasn't going to pay an extra cent and they are the ones that screwed up and should be kissing my a$$ and perhaps by upgrading me I might be more forgiving. 

 I finally got ahold of a Customer Service Representative who booked me on a flight to Russia the following day, the only catch is I had fly out of Austin airport that day and do an overnight layover in Atlanta.  Austin airport is about 1 1/2 hours away on a good day, it was now 12:30PM and the flight left at 2:59PM - so with security and parking I had 1 1/2 hours to get there. At this point things started to change;
1) The state just opened up a new toll road (cost $3.00 total to get to the airport)
2) Every State Trooper along the way already had someone pulled.

I made it to the airport at 1:30PM only to discover the flight had been delayed until 3:30PM. The flights were uneventful, however I did luck out and was the only person sitting at the emergency exit on my side of the plane.  I couldn't sleep on the plane so I was abit tired when I finally landed at SVO.  I was one of the first in line at customs and my two bags were some of the first to come out on the conveyor. I met Richard "aka the crazy Canadian" and proceeded to Tver.

  The first things I noticed about Russia is the infrastructure is neglected (the pot holes make ours look like 
minor speed dips) and there appear to be no traffic laws, once in Tver I settled into the flat.  I was disappointed in that I was very specific with Richard in that the main thing I wanted was a western style shower, but the flat had a garden tub instead.  Richard told me that the owner of the original flat had changed her mind at the last minute and this was the best he could do at the time, Richard easily rectified the problem by bringing a shower rod and curtain. 

  After I freshened up,  Richard and I walked about 1/2 mile to the agency and met with the lady I had been writing to (I'll call her X) and she and I went out to grab something to eat.  I don't know the name of the restaurant, but it is just down the street from Tver Angels office, the food was excellent and the prices very reasonable.  I spent the next several days meeting X and her family and enjoying myself.  I visited Moscow & St. Petersburg and I liked them both, but I liked St. Petersburg more.         

  It was during the end of the first week that I discovered that I had been significantly overcharged on my bank account and was in a bit of a financial pickle.  Well RWD is full of surprises, I was keeping the legendary JB appraised of my trip and when he found out my situation, he sent me $$ without hesitation and saved my a$$. 

  I spent time with X in Moscow and St. Petersburg and I kept remembering what the OMB's keep telling folks "If a Russian woman likes you, she will leave no doubt in your mind".  Everything was going well, I went to a family gathering at the lake (Russian BBQ's are great), they gave me lots of food and tagged teamed me with the Vodka.  During the festivities family members got ahold of my camera and took a lot of photographs, A good time was had by all and I was a hit with all of the children (My second job is as a mobile jungle gym). X had cooked me dinner in my flat twice earlier in the week, but there was minimal physical contact, even when her 6 year old son would put our hands together, she would find a reason to pull them apart.  My last night in Tver there X invited me to her flat and she showed me family photographs while her mother cooked dinner, but still minimal contact. 

  I will admit that it was abit confusing at first, but I decided that she was being a courteous hostess to the foreigner and had no real feelings towards me.  It is a bit of a shame since I really liked her family and her son, but c'est la vie, these things happen when you do the WOVO method.

  Even though I things didn't work out with X, I still accomplished what I wanted- I visited Russia and met some great people, saw beautiful places and enjoyed myself.  I will be visiting Russia again (especially St. Petersburg!!)

I cannot say enough positive things about Tver Angels, Richard and his partner Marina were extremely accommodating and gave me options and at the same time allowed me room when I needed it.  The folks there are extremely open honest and will bend over backwards to help you in anyway they can, If anyone visits the Tver region I would highly recommend this agency.

 JB-Some view him as a cantankerous opinionated old fart (which is true), but you will not find a more honest guy that will help a person when they really need it.  JB is truely part of a dying breed of individual from an era that is rapidly vanishing in todays "What's in it for me" society. I may not always agree with him, but he has my utmost respect.   

I also found my twin in St. Petersburg;

Bear

It was so interesting to  read your post, though you told nothing worked out with that X lady but it is not the point where you have to be so much upset and neglect  WOVO, as it is not about that, it is just you did not like each other the way too much to start the relationship, though it is strange she at once introduced you to her family and so on , well maybe she wanted to be polite or something, strange she never showed any feelings for you. It is sad of course , but as you told you finally visited Russia and you liked it so that is nice great thing

Sometimes people  are really mistaken by how they feel about this or that person while only corresponding, they think that they know everything about the person, which is of course not true , you need to talk alive and to see the person alive for sure!

I think you are a lovely person Bear and you will find a woman who will appreciate and love you

so keep the faith

[Rvrwind]

I been staying out of this thread mostly to let Corbett tell his tale himself, but a few comments have been made that need addressing. I'm not going to quote anybody but just address what has been said in regards to Corbett, Lady X & Tver Angels as well as me personally.
First Corbett. Corbett is a big ole Teddy Bear, no doubt about that whatsoever. In fact in my opinion it is a small part of his downfall. He is a gentle man for his size & just wants to be everybodies friend & buddy. Although this works great amoung the men, the women want to see more of a leader, a take charge kinda guy, to fill their life & lead the family.
Lady X, is deffinitly not a Pro Dater as was suggested. In point of fact, a week before Corbett arrived I had to cool her jets some as she was already making wedding plans & they had not met face to face. I cautioned her & Corbett about this as I know what can happen & I merely suggested they slow down some & take it one step at a time. Corbett was in fact the only man she was writing & the only foreign man she has met through our agency. I doubt the tag Pro Dater fits at all.
As a company I feel we did the best we could for Corbett. The way some of you have stated your comments is as though we got him there & left him to fend for himself with this lady, this is deffinitly not the case.
I pulled Corbett aside on several occasions & tried to get him to corner her & make a decision. I tried to get him to realize that it was not working & he should move on. Although I didn't come right out & say it, he was aware of what I was trying to do. I knew 3 days after he arrived that things were not as they or I had hoped & although I tried to get Corbett to change directions he is a big boy & must make his own decisions in the end.
I introduced him to Valarie, my friend & Major in the police force & they got on well. I also tried to fill his time with seeing the real Russia & enjoying his trip while at the same time I tried to get him to change gears. To my dismay he was so consumed by the family & such that he was forming more of an attachment to them than her.
I know he will return & he will find the lady he seeks but I truly believe that WOVO is really a death knell for most in this pursuit. I know some will disagree but had Corbett backed off we could & would have introduced him to any others he wanted to meet in our listings. He's a nice guy & truly deserves a good lady & he will find her but this one just wasn't the one.
It took me 40+ dates with different ladies to find the one. I hope it doesn't take him that many but it just illistrates that this is not a journey to be taken lightly.

[BillyB]

Lady X, is deffinitly not a Pro Dater as was suggested. In point of fact, a week before Corbett arrived I had to cool her jets some as she was already making wedding plans & they had not met face to face. I cautioned her & Corbett about this as I know what can happen & I merely suggested they slow down some & take it one step at a time. Corbett was in fact the only man she was writing & the only freign man she has met through our agency. I doubt the tag Pro Dater fits at all.
As a company I feel we did the best we could for Corbett. The way some of you have stated your comments is as though we got him there & left him to fend for himself with this lady, this is deffinitly not the case.

I think when both men and women do WOVO,  they have high hopes that things will end in marriage. Unfortunately there are poor odds that marriage will be the result after one date. It's possible Lady X and Bear was not meant for each other but both sincere in their intentions of finding a life partner. I learned a long time ago, many women don't want to hurt a man's feelings and tell them to back off. It's up to the man to read the signs, cut his losses and move on to another woman who will give him the green light to proceed in courting her.

I would not recommend Bear to visit many as that is not his style, make him uncomfortable and fail doing it but it would be to his benefit to write and phone "many" women and with a process of elimination on who's not compatable with him, then he may make a better decision on who the ONE is to visit.

[acrzybear]

Howdy all

I'm surprised this t/r has hit 4 pages, I'll address some of the comments listed above;

Richard and the folks at Tver Angels were great and went above and beyond what an agency normally would.  Richard did take me aside a couple of times and tell me I need to talk with X but something always came up (bringing her son, sister, Aunt & Uncle to a meeting) and I would wait for a more appropriate time.

 Another issue is that I was on vacation and enamored/fascinated with Russia. I have no probelms taking charge of a situation but work had been extremely stressful the previous 3 months and I was in vacation (aka relaxed) mode and just wanted a break from have to make important decisions every 5 minutes.

 It was my first time in Russia and I was like a kid in a candy store looking at and taking everything in, did I make mistakes? Yep.  Did I learn from my mistakes? I'd like to think so .   You can write all of the letters & talk on the phone you want, but that is no substitute for being in country and experiencing things first hand.

  I did not get the feeling X was a pro dater, but after a while I do think she saw an opportunity to see other cities and experience some things on my nickle-but I'm good with that, It was my time and money to waste.  Does X have psychological problems as was suggested up thread? Don't know, perhaps she knows what she wants or she's waiting for a better offer on the table, or perhaps she just was not attracted to me-only X knows the answers to these questions.

  We are all adults here (well most of us anyway ), I'm a big boy and I know the hazards of WOVO so there is no need to place blame on anyone in this matter.  Did I get everything I wanted out of this trip? No, but I did get 2 out of 3 things and I think that's pretty damn good for a newbie.  I now have some experience under my belt and next time I won't be as awestruck as I was this time. 

  I have no regrets about my trip and made some new friends and isn't that what life is about?.     

[KenC]

Bear,
I think you had a very successful trip!  You got to see Russia, meet some fine people and experience something you will never forget in your lifetime.  Finding the right woman is a whole other kettle of fish.  It is the luck of the draw.  Just because X wasn't the one for you or you the one for her, does not make her defective or you for that matter.  You have gained valuable experiences and will be bale to draw on them in the future.  You actions and reactions are mature and I am sure you will find what you are looking for in the future.  Best of luck to you
KenC

[Jazzyclassy]

That is the good thing that you do not have any regrets  that is great

I came to a conclusion that WOVO thing is for people with more sensetive  nature, more emotional people than the others, as these people usually get quickly attached to the person unlike those who are more with thicker skin and for them probably the other methods are the best way to find somebody appropriate.

[Simoni]

Bear,

I agree with KenC.  You had a successful trip.  You had a good time.  You learned a lot.

I certainly did not get engaged on my first trip, but like you, fell in love with Tver and Russia and kept coming back to the FSU until I met my match.  You can too.

Chemistry is such an important thing.  And it does take two to tango.  No amount of letter writing will show you  if two people have chemistry in real life, so next time I advise you to just go and meet a number of girls at Richard's agency, or perhaps one down south in Ukraine.  That way, you can find someone you like and who likes you, and then get to know her well.

Good luck!

~SI

[acrzybear]

Actually JC I am fairly thick skinned and extremely good at not showing my emotions (13 years as a cop will do that) except with children and animals (my kryponite if you will).  I was on vacation and not "on guard" like I am most of the time in the United States.

  I think the main reason I do not do the WMVM is I am just lazy   I deal with enough stressful things at work and when I am not working I tend to keep to myself.  I'm not a "player" and am very selective about whom I call friend.  Would it be nice to have the dream of a white picket fence with 2 children? yes it would, but I am a male police Sergeant and I deal with facts.  I have gone down the emotional road several times and been burned everytime, so I am extremely cautious and like to keep things light and humorous when dealing with the opposite sex until my trust is earned.

  I have strong core values and will not change for anyone, no matter how pretty she may be (I am talking in general here, not my recent trip) If I am fortunate enough to find a partner she will need to have the same core values that I do.

I am honest (to a fault sometimes)

I do not tolerate those that lie, cheat or steal

I believe that if a man has a family their needs come before his and if he has to work 2 jobs to provide for them, then that's what needs to be done.

You need to be a good role model for your children and be there for them (this is no guarantee they will turn out ok)

Your word is your bond (if you tell someone you are going to do something, then you do it)

These are the things that are non negotiable for me, but other then that I'm pretty easy going and flexible

[Jazzyclassy]

That is perfect you have such values, it is a very good example of a true man

I never understood those many visits of women on one trip , but for some people it really works, I do not know how...

Do not cover it up with your laziness, I wont believe it  , cos you are just not the type of guy who would tell sweet words and start liking one woman , when in an hour you will be telling the same sweet words to the other woman, that is not about you , which is great !

I am sure you will find a woman who will be on the same level as you , so your trip was absolutely fine here I agree with others
The main thing  as you noted you should not change your values for the sake of somebody , that is very important, and your woman she is there waiting for you   Just maybe a little bit of patience and really true desire to have and create a family
Cos if you really want something and you slowly strive for that , you will definately achieve it !

[catzenmouse]

  I have strong core values and will not change for anyone, no matter how pretty she may be (I am talking in general here, not my recent trip) If I am fortunate enough to find a partner she will need to have the same core values that I do.

I am honest (to a fault sometimes)

I do not tolerate those that lie, cheat or steal

I believe that if a man has a family their needs come before his and if he has to work 2 jobs to provide for them, then that's what needs to be done.

You need to be a good role model for your children and be there for them (this is no guarantee they will turn out ok)

Your word is your bond (if you tell someone you are going to do something, then you do it)

 

 This is a fine code to live by Bear! My hat is off to you. Too bad we couldn't get a few hundred elected officials in DC to feel the same way.

Ken

[acrzybear]

I think that in order to get elected you must fail the above tests.

[BillyB]

 I'm not a "player"

That's how I felt for many years which prevented me from dating more than one woman at a time. My opinion has changed. Does dating more than one woman at a time make you a player? Not necessarily. If a guy does WMVM, he needs to tell women, if they ask, that he's visiting as a friend first so that he does not deceive anybody by getting their hopes up. I ended up visiting one, my fiancee, but before I visited her, I reminded her although I have serious intentions, it's best she understand that I'm visiting as a friend and "if" things go well, we could pursue more serious relations. She commented that I was such a careful man and she admired me for that. Women also respect the fact that you're not the type of man who'd throw yourself to just any woman and the fact you have standards and won't marry the first thing that comes along.

Bear, you mentioned earlier that you were surprised this thread went to 4 pages. That's a good thing. With the number of posts here, there's a lot of good info for the newbie/lurker reading.

[Simoni]

Yes, Bear, WMVM has a bad side to it in that multiple girls may think you are just coming to see them. I feel as you do about that.

That's why I gravitated to a Write None Visit Until You Find Someone Interesting
mentality.

Or, better yet, use an agency and select a few profiles that look interesting, and write one or two letters saying "I'll be in xxx in May and would like to meet you."   And as soon as you find someone that you click with, spend the rest of your time with her.

That puts it on the level of dating in the US, which is a more natural way than writing one girl for 3 months and then meeting her.

That's my two cents worth...

[groovlstk]

One thing I've never seen discussed that BillyB touched on above is that it's not easy to do WMVM, or whatever acronym you prefer to describe meeting more than one woman on a single trip.

It's very easy in theory to tell a guy to drop a woman the moment he realizes she's not right for him, quite another to actually do it. Most of us have never behaved that way with local women simply because there was no pressing need to (or simply because we were taught it was unrespectful). To preach it is easy, to practice it takes... well, practice.

WMVM is a learned behavior, and simultaneously you can argue it's unnatural while at the same time a man's best friend for finding a partner in the FSU. (and I hope I haven't turned this thread into yet another WOVO vs. WMVM debate)

[KenC]

Bear,
You're a good guy and easy to like as I see it.  You could have the RW lined up to meet you (and you should IMO).  I think the problem most guys have with meeting many is that they think they have to get deeply involved with all of them and that is just plane incorrect.  I would use an agency as an introduction agency not a marriage agency.  Get a rather large list of ladies you are interested in meeting.  No promises, no lovey dovey correspondence, just women that meet your basic criteria and would be interested in meeting you.  Pull no punches and let them all know you coming to town to meet some fine women and to narrow the prospects down to a few.  Schedule your trip and have maybe 20 women you might be interested in meeting.  No lunches, no dinners and certainly no side trips planned, just meet them in the office of the agency or if you are interested in anyone in particular, invite her for a coffee or a tea and see where it leads.

There is nothing wrong with just meeting ladies that might be interested in you in particular and have an open mind on relocating.  Too many guys get too deep into a "virtual" relationship before going over and think they are half way home or even in love before they buy a plane ticket.  Seriously, I would hook up with a good (big) agency with lots of choices and tell them "Acrzybear is coming to your town on April 3rd and he would like to meet you."  Meet them all in the first 3 days with short 1/2 hour meetings.  If you meet someone interesting during the day, invite them to dinner that night.  BUT MEET EVERYONE ON YOUR LIST.  At the end of 3 days you will be surprised how well defined your list will be with only one or two candidates.  These are candidates to begin a relationship, not conclude one.

Like I told you before, I was very much in your shoes when I first went to meet Lena.  But I also didn't put all my eggs in one basket either.  I scheduled myself to meet other women too.  You may find it uncomfortable, but the girls in an agency usually do not.  Again, the key here is not to get too deeply involved before you go.  Take it for it is worth, my friend.
KenC

[Misha]

There is nothing wrong with just meeting ladies that might be interested in you in particular and have an open mind on relocating.  Too many guys get too deep into a "virtual" relationship before going over and think they are half way home or even in love before they buy a plane ticket.

Again, the key here is not to get too deeply involved before you go.  Take it for it is worth, my friend.
KenC

I agree with Ken. Before meeting my wife, I met a number of women simply for a coffee, sometimes for supper. I met a number of great women, but things simply  did not click. Either she was not not interested or I was not interested. Given that I had not invested any time before meeting them, I simply said goodbye and moved on. I was using a free Russian dating site and I contacted my wife only a few days before actually meeting her. We exchanged SMS messages for a day while I was on the train traveling to her city. We met for a coffee on the same day that I arrived in her city, and we have been together ever since. She liked me the moment that she saw me and I quickly fell in love with her. In many ways I am glad that I did not spend much time chatting with her online before meeting: very often when you spend too much in a virtual relationship, you project all your emotions onto an idealized woman that you create in your mind, and no living woman could possibly live up to your expectations. I learned that the hard way when my heart was broken by a woman that I spent months corresponding with online, which led me to switching strategies. You have to get to know a woman, of course, but not amount of writing or chatting can replace face-to-face time spent together.   

[BillyB]

It's very easy in theory to tell a guy to drop a woman the moment he realizes she's not right for him, quite another to actually do it.
 

Right Groov. One thing I always tell newbies is to leave their emotions at home, bringing emotions can get them in trouble. Some guys doing WMVM will end up falling in love too quickly and won't meet the other women they had planned on meeting. FSUrookie was one of them. He said he wished he went on more dates that he had planned at the agency instead of cancelling and proceeding with his insincere ex fiancee.

It's even harder for the WOVO guys to leave their emotions home because they've invested so much time to one woman that sometimes they proceed under less than ideal circumstances.

Guys should not feel guilty doing WMVM if they have sincere intentions. Women go on many dates to find the ONE. Some are even dating local guys while you're in town. It's important to the women to find the right guy, not just the first one that comes along. It should be important to the guys too.

Simoni, the problem with telling guys to show up in the FSU without prior correspondence is like telling them show up on a series of blind dates. Paying up to $50 a date when doing it at agencies. Guys in this endeavor don't have time to date with low odds like the guys who live in the FSU. there's also a chance a guy will spend a week asking random women they meet around town for their phone numbers with no success. And when he does find a woman to date him, he may have to go out and date, for a good length of time in which he doesn't have, 20 different women just to find one worth marrying. When I wrote to hundreds of women, within a few letters many of those women quit writing to me and I quit writing to many women. No lovey dovey stuff, just who am I and who are you. If guys and girls are falling in love through letters, they are making mistakes. Through letters, I have found I have no business going on any dates with 90% of those women because our interests, personality, and/or characters are different. Eliminating or being eliminated by the women, I was left with good choices on who to visit. It's good for guys to have some knowledge of the woman they are going on a date with instead of just showing up and starting from scratch. Also, if one can't hold a conversation with a woman on the phone, you probably won't hold one when sitting next to her and definately have no business visiting her and go on a date, especially at $50 a pop if she's with an agency. Phoning is more important than writing letters.

[Simoni]

Simoni, the problem with telling guys to show up in the FSU without prior correspondence is like telling them show up on a series of blind dates. Paying up to $50 a date when doing it at agencies.

Actually, I said

 

Or, better yet, use an agency and select a few profiles that look interesting, and write one or two letters saying "I'll be in xxx in May and would like to meet you."   And as soon as you find someone that you click with, spend the rest of your time with her.

So I'm saying pick a few profiles and have a few girls lined up.  And no, you DON'T have to pay $50 bucks for a date as long as you go with a decent agency.  For example, at Cindy Agency the meeting is free if you have written 3 letters.  Letters there cost $5, so I paid nothing for the girls I met on my last trip there.  Granted, that was a couple of years ago, so it might be higher now.

KenC and Gator have given similar advice, so my thinking is not unique.

[Simoni]

Ok, I made sure Marina was not looking (sent her out to walk the dog) and then logged onto Cindy.

You can buy the girl's contact info for $25 or you can write letters for 3 to 5 bucks, depending on length. Girls can write you for free. The site then clarifies:

If you sent at least 5 letters to the lady via our agency, we organize a meeting with her for free. If you sent some (but fewer than 5) letters  to the lady via our agency, we organize a meeting with her and give you a proper discount.

So it looks like you can still meet a cindy girl for $15 to $25.

On my last trip, I met 6 girls I had written.  One was a true winner, and over the next year we really got to know each other.  Now, two 1/2 years later, we are happy together, and living in the US.

[BillyB]

Cindy agency sounds reasonably priced. Other agencies aren't so kind to a man's pocketbook.

Things have worked well for you Simoni but I've read countless failed trip reports from guys who visit women after writing a few letters and not calling the women. Many men end up saying they basically met a stranger or pro dater they had no business dating. But of course with lots of luck, a guy will find a gem. We should try our best when possible not to rely on luck cause some of could be bad.

Of course when a man announces he's going to visit the FSU, he'll generate interest from women. The women may be interested in him or interested in going on a date payed by someone else. You won't know which. Phoning a woman is critical before visiting. Based on what I've read, I would estimate over half the men do not call a RW before visiting her. My fiancee received letters from hundreds of men but only three wanted to talk to her on the phone. I was one of them. If a RW likes you physically or through initial correspondence, she will give you her phone number and if she likes you based on what you talk about on the phone, she will want you to call often. If a woman turns your request for a phone number down, it usually means she's not thrilled to talk to you, not attracted to you, insincere, or currently has plenty of guys keeping her phone busy and don't have time for another.

Here are my additional thoughts on this subject on what the best way for a guy is in this endeavor. If a man dates one woman during his one week in the FSU to find his gem, will he have better odds than the man who dates 10 women in a week? Probably not. He needs to rely heavily on luck that the one is the ONE or he needs 10 trips to the FSU to date the same amount of women to increase his odds of success.

In doing your homework, if a guy writes 100 women, eliminates 80, phones 20, eliminates 15, and then plan to visit 5 before going to the FSU, does he have better odds at finding his gem than the guy that shows up and randomly dates 5 women? I say yes as he somewhat knows the women he's about to date and already eliminated 95 he's sure he doesn't want to date.

Realistically, it could take years of a man dating at home before he finds a woman suitable to marry, whether or not he dates one at a time or many at a time. Most guys don't have years to date in the FSU so it's best they use the tools of writing and phoning before going on dates. At least it won't be a blind date before you get to the FSU.

Don't underestimate the value of the written word. Based on recent threads, many of you could understand the minds of the different men and RW who post there and based on what they've written, you've gained respect for some and lost respect for some. Just think if you blindly lined up a bunch of dates for the ones you don't respect? Do your homework to use your time in the FSU efficiently and know the person before asking them out on a date.

[Simoni]

Things have worked well for you Simoni but I've read countless failed trip reports from guys who visit women after writing a few letters and not calling the women. Many men end up saying they basically met a stranger or pro dater they had no business dating. But of course with lots of luck, a guy will find a gem. We should try our best when possible not to rely on luck cause some of could be bad.

BillyB, that's my point.  You don't want to invest in a pro dater.  Therefore, numbers is the key.  Don't fall in love before you get there.  Rather, go and meet lots of girls.   Don't make a trip to meet a single women.  That usually leads to failure.

On my last trip, I was ready to move beyond the six girls I wanted to meet if none of those were what I was seeking.  I had identified 20 more profiles I could have moved on to. There's where an agency is valuable as an additional backup.

Look, there are many ways to succeed and many ways to fail.  WOVO can work. But usually it does not.

Personally, I don't believe in months of writing a girl and then going to meet her.  Rather, just strike up a marginal relationship through a few letters, and then go meet the girl (girls).  KenC says it best...

I think the problem most guys have with meeting many is that they think they have to get deeply involved with all of them and that is just plane incorrect.  I would use an agency as an introduction agency not a marriage agency.  Get a rather large list of ladies you are interested in meeting.  No promises, no lovey dovey correspondence, just women that meet your basic criteria and would be interested in meeting you.  Pull no punches and let them all know you coming to town to meet some fine women and to narrow the prospects down to a few.  Schedule your trip and have maybe 20 women you might be interested in meeting.  No lunches, no dinners and certainly no side trips planned, just meet them in the office of the agency or if you are interested in anyone in particular, invite her for a coffee or a tea and see where it leads.

That's exactly my take, too.

[Gator]

We are all different.  While I subscribe to WMVM, I believe I would learn very little about a woman in 30 minutes.  Nevertheless, I did have a few such meetings.  Twice I liked the woman and she did not like me.  Can you believe the nerve of such a woman?      A couple of times I liked the woman; however, they fell in between the cracks in the floor as I spent my follow-up time with a woman whom I knew better.

What works best for me, and not necessarily for the next man, is at least an evening dinner together or a long walk in a park.

As far a selecting whom to meet, I am more in the camp of 3 letters plus a phone call or two.  On occasion,  this minimal communication revealed a very interesting woman with much promise.  Thus, I wrote more letters and made more calls, and gave her first priority (plan my meetings around her schedule for work or even on weekends).  This gave me more time to confirm or deny my hopes.  The time she was not available was available to meet the others. 

Usually such meetings with high priority women started off well.  I eventually became engaged to two of them over a period of 5 years doing this.  However, in two other cases, as the onion was peeled layer by layer, it became clear by the 3rd or 4th date, that we were not a match.  I was able to excuse myself and withdraw without guilt or embarrassment.

So is that WMVM, Version 3c?    Everyone is different.

[deccie]

I believe that if a man has a family their needs come before his and if he has to work 2 jobs to provide for them, then that's what needs to be done.

Hmm... whenever I see this posted I have to wonder... Because the implicit statement at the end is "If I consider their needs legitimate". I don't see many men being tolerant of a wife demanding he work two jobs just so she can wear the latest fashion or spend a weeks salary on cosmetics.

[Gator]

Deccie,

I see that you are committed to a RW.  If so, you know that the latest fashion is not critical, yet cosmetics come before food for herself. 

Seriously, if a RW is demanding a man to work two jobs to keep her fashionable, then he made a misake in marrying her.

[deccie]

Deccie,

I see that you are committed to a RW.  If so, you know that the latest fashion is not critical, yet cosmetics come before food for herself. 

 . I love looking at my lady first thing in the morning without makeup. She gets all blushed and dashes off to put it on!

Seriously, if a RW is demanding a man to work two jobs to keep her fashionable, then he made a misake in marrying her.

Definitely, but that's not what acrzybear posted is it? He posted "my family's needs come before my own". I just don't believe such a generalisation.  As far as I can see any man who denies his own needs is dooming his relationship just as much as a man that fails to provide the essentials.

A man has the honour to die for his wife and kids should the situation demand it of him but that does not mean he must only be a giver and not a taker too.

I just don't believe the author is quite into self denial as the post might imply.