Putin is Ruining Russia

[GQBlues]

Is that the same man who asked her for some other evidence than social media? What TV channel or other News does he work in? I mean, he's oviously a westerner, right? And I watch and read western media every day but just can't find ANY Balance. He's like a unicorn and I'd like to know from where....

Just now had a chance to search.

His full name is Matthew Lee and he works for Associated Press...

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/07/25/video-replay-heated-exchange-at-state-department-briefing-on-russian-activities/

Still pretty funny reading/listening to that exchange with Marie Harf.

[Doll]

Достали уже!
 
Love for Russia?
Are you not human beings? I am starting doubting.
The man did nothing- just parked the car.
What did the crazy crowd did? Idiots.

[fathertime]

Maybe Fathertime should go to these people and tell them they should accept federalization in Ukraine. I'd like to see the civilized conversation that will ensue.


Heh, heh, heh : D

Hey, they can accept it (and make every effort to make it work fairly) or fight Russia alone....it won't be my funeral.


Here is an interesting quote: I hadn't heard it was the Ukraine military that had been accidentally killing so many civilians.  Like he said, our media hasn't been reporting it. 

The Ukrainian central government has been resisting. It wants to crush the rebels and has killed some 1,200 civilians. Little of this has been much reported in the Western media, which has been fanning the flames for NATO intervention and possible war.

   

[Photo Guy]

The people here who complain about the West's influence on Ukrainian, are also the people who were okay with Yanukovych and are perfectly fine with Putin's autocracy and are perfectly fine with Ukraine falling apart. Some Russians do not care about non-Russians. They don't care about Ukrainians who want to fight the old corrupt Soviet system that still has a stranglehold over various sectors of the government. Look at how Tartars are treated in Crimea. Are you okay with the hostage-taking in eastern Ukraine? The bloodshed is on Putin's hands. If throwing fire-bombs at riot police bothers you, then take a good look at the government that was thrown out... And give some thought to what a future government would be in eastern Ukraine. And give some thought to Poroshenko's inaugural speech. No fascism there...

[AC]

You might have missed it, but Northern Ireland lived in a state of quasi-war for many years. The terrorists did many bombings and killings on the mainland too. The IRA - a proper terrorist organisation - was backed with a lot of American money as it goes. Fancy that.......

So you did not like the IRA being backed by outside money, but you think that Ukrainians should be happy that Russians are funding war and terrorism within Ukrainian territory, correct?  Fancy that.....and an interesting window into your thinking.

[Doll]

Quite simple: Putin's actions have clearly pushed a wedge between Russia and Russian-speakers in Ukraine. So much for the Novorossiya fantasy. If anything, Ukraine should give Putin a medal. He has done more to unite all Ukrainians across the ethnic and linguistic spectrum than anybody else. He has given Ukraine heroes, statues will certainly be erected across Ukraine replacing those old Lenins. Also, he encouraged the rise of civil society and the rebirth of the Ukrainian Army as a capable fighting force.

Please leave Putin alone.
WU has ALWAYS been this way towards anybody else.
Somebody just played this card.
Agan- go back to 2004 and read.
Poor people are just puppets in somebody's hands

[GQBlues]

The people here who complain about the West's influence on Ukrainian, are also the people who were okay with Yanukovych and are perfectly fine with Putin's autocracy and are perfectly fine with Ukraine falling apart...

Therein lies in many of these discussions and conflicts. Simplistic observations...

[Doll]

Look at how Tartars are treated in Crimea

How are they treated?

[fathertime]

s they have lots of greenbacks. I think this is what most Europeans that are defending Putin's actions seem to think.


Or maybe, just maybe they are mesmerized by a bare-chested testosterone-filled midget who is fond of neo-nazis.

I agree with you 100%. No one anticipated the carrot offered to Ukraine by the US and EU was so enticing that they would risk life and limb to try what we in the West all take for granted; the Rule of law. Ukraine to a step of standing up and told Russia they were no more their "little brother" and instead should deal them as equals. But of course, this is hard to understand by someone who feels all Ukrainian women are whores.

Name calling and making outrageous misstatements like that last one are what Muzh does best.  It is good that he sticking to his guns rather than actually trying to think constructively. 


Fathertime!   

[Misha]

And BY THE WAY- they speak Ukrainian or with Ukrainian accent.
This 123% true)))

There are many more videos out there. There is one that I saw a few couple of weeks ago where a crowd surrounded a car and driver who had come out of the police station. They all spoke Russian with no accent. Then, yesterday, there was the video posted by a young man speaking Russian like a Muscovite open mocking the propaganda, searching the streets of the tourist square looking for Fascists... 

[GQBlues]

Maybe the comparison being made re: Ukraine / UK is a good example actually. The United Kingdom after all, is Great Britain, which comprises of the kingdoms of Wales, Scotland and England; and Northern Ireland.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

We can call the current Ukrainian territory as the United Republics of Crimea, Ukraine, and Eastern Ukraine.

There, and *peas* for all...

[Boethius]

It was not just Western Ukraine, Doll.


Central Ukraine supported the Orangistas as well, as did some parts of Central/Eastern Ukraine.  The president was from Sumy, the PM from Dnepropetrovsk.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_presidential_election,_2004#mediaviewer/File:Ukraine_Presidential_Dec_2004_Vote_(Highest_vote)a.png


The meme about those "fascist nationalists" in Western Ukraine is sold in the Russian press, but it is not entirely accurate.

[Misha]

Please leave Putin alone.
WU has ALWAYS been this way towards anybody else.
Somebody just played this card.
Agan- go back to 2004 and read.
Poor people are just puppets in somebody's hands

Why should he be "left alone"? Do you really think that BUKs were sent into eastern Ukraine without his blessing? Do you really think that the missiles being fired from Russian territory attacking Ukrainian military positions are being fired by rogue generals against the wishes of Putin?

[AC]

Quite simple: Putin's actions have clearly pushed a wedge between Russia and Russian-speakers in Ukraine. So much for the Novorossiya fantasy. If anything, Ukraine should give Putin a medal. He has done more to unite all Ukrainians across the ethnic and linguistic spectrum than anybody else. He has given Ukraine heroes, statues will certainly be erected across Ukraine replacing those old Lenins. Also, he encouraged the rise of civil society and the rebirth of the Ukrainian Army as a capable fighting force.

 

[Doll]

There are many more videos out there. There is one that I saw a few couple of weeks ago where a crowd surrounded a car and driver who had come out of the police station. They all spoke Russian with no accent. Then, yesterday, there was the video posted by a young man speaking Russian like a Muscovite open mocking the propaganda, searching the streets of the tourist square looking for Fascists... 

Link please.
I am profi in southern accents (no joke)

[Doll]

 

+

[AC]

How are they treated?

Apparently not very well.  Enough were deported and murdered by Stalin (Putin's hero) and then enough ethnic (white) Russians were imported, that the Russian Federation was able to pull their annexation stunt so quickly.  The ones remaining have been treated very badly.

[Doll]

Apparently not very well.  Enough were deported and murdered by Stalin (Putin's hero) and then enough ethnic (white) Russians were imported, that the Russian Federation was able to pull their annexation stunt so quickly.  The ones remaining have been treated very badly.

Speechless (as we are talking of Tatars in Crimea) hahahaa
Пальцем в небо

[Misha]

Link please.
I am profi in southern accents (no joke)

Let's see, a video where a crowd gathers around a driver and car displaying a St. George Ribbon. They call for his arrest:





The video of the young man mocking the propaganda of Fascists and the followers of Bandera oppressing Odessa:





While I am sharing videos, here is a good one featuring the inhabitants of Slovyansk telling a "reporter" what they really think of the "freaks":





Finally, another video of an interrogation. The man being questioned was with the "rebels" and he describes women being brought, gang raped and then killed. One could only hope that it is not true, but if it is, the evidence will certainly come to light soon enough


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE57YfJQ4h0&feature=youtu.be

[Muzh]

Name calling and making outrageous misstatements like that last one are what Muzh does best.  It is good that he sticking to his guns rather than actually trying to think constructively. 


Fathertime!   

Please, respond to the comments not the commenter. And stop whining. It's not becoming of you.

[Doll]

 Misha, I only watched the first one- again, bunch of idiots.

[GQBlues]

My new favorite reality show, starring Matt Lee & Marie Harf. Todays' episode is about :

--ON THE SUBJECT OF INDISCRIMINATE KILLING OF CIVILIANS BY THE GOVERNMENT OF UKRAINE --

Scene I-

MS. HARF: Let’s go to Ukraine.
QUESTION: -- a couple of questions on the Kurdish oil tanker?
MS. HARF: Let’s go to Ukraine first.
QUESTION: Okay.
MS. HARF: And then we’ll go to the oil tanker.
QUESTION: You expressed concern – more than concern, you condemned the shelling of the UNRWA school in Gaza. I’m wondering if you’re willing to condemn civilian casualties in Ukraine committed by both the separatists and the Ukrainian military.
MS. HARF: Well, we could condemn civilian casualties wherever they take place. But obviously, we have to look at every individual incident.
QUESTION: Have you now – yesterday, when Jen was asked about this, she said that there were reports, but you couldn’t confirm them, of the Ukrainian military using artillery and heavy – in Donetsk in heavily-populated --
QUESTION: Short-range missiles.
QUESTION: So, yeah.
MS. HARF: Mm-hmm. So on that, the Ukrainians have a responsibility to protect their citizens in their own country. The weapons cited in these reports are a standard artillery component in former Soviet militaries. We’re certainly not going to tell the Ukrainians they can’t use standard weaponry, particularly when they’re coming under such fire, but as with the use of all weapon systems in this conflict, it is imperative that the Ukrainians continue to exercise as much care as possible to protect innocent lives, and of course, the reason there is all of this instability is because of Russia’s actions here.
QUESTION: Are you concerned at all that, as you have said with Israel, that they are not living up to their own high standards? Are you – do you have the same concerns in Ukraine, that the Ukrainian military is not doing enough to prevent civilian casualties?
MS. HARF: Well, look, we are going to also hold them to their commitments on – particularly with – when we talk about exclusion zones, right, when we’ve talked about ceasefires, but also in protecting civilian casualties, we’ve seen them exercise extraordinary restraint in the face of incredible opposition from the Russians, and we’ll continue working with them.
QUESTION: Okay, when you say the Ukrainians have a responsibility to protect their citizens in their own country, does that apply to all Ukrainians, all people in Ukrainian soil?
MS. HARF: What – I don’t understand the crux of your question.
QUESTION: Well, it just seems to me that if they’re firing artillery or, what – or these rockets or missiles into civilian apartment buildings, including one that’s holding – housing an old folks home, basically, that those people who are getting hit and killed and wounded are – the Ukrainian Government also has the responsibility to protect them as well, correct?
MS. HARF: That’s correct. I can’t confirm reports about what this artillery hit. There are, again, a variety of reports out there. We’re still trying to get a little more clarity on that.

----------------------------------------SUBJECT OF THE SANCTIONS ---------------------------------

Scene II-

QUESTION: Okay. And then on the sanctions that were imposed --
MS. HARF: Yes. We announced more sanctions yesterday.
QUESTION: Correct. I know that it is probably too early to tell if these are going to be the tipping point, if this is what’s finally going to get the Russians to change their calculus, but I’m wondering, given the fact that this morning the Russian official – the Russian Government’s response has been very dismissive, to say the least, if you have any realistic expectation that this going – that these – that this latest round is actually going to do what you say you want it to do.
MS. HARF: Well, I mean, the point here is to continue upping the pressure and increasingly squeezing them economically so that President Putin will make the right decision here. But if he doesn’t, we will continue putting the pressure him. I mean, look, the fact that even before yesterday, nearly $100 billion in capital was expected to flee Russia, at some point I think the Russian citizens are going to be pretty unhappy that because of his actions in the region and other countries, their economy is tanking. So that’s what it’s designed to do and we’ll keep upping the pressure. These are key sectors yesterday – the firms in these sectors really want access to the U.S., really want access to the EU, and are going to feel the pressure.
QUESTION: So you – so that means the intent of these sanctions is to, using your words, tank the Russian economy?
MS. HARF: The purpose of these sanctions is to put enough pressure on the Russian Government that eventually President Putin will change his calculation.
QUESTION: Right.
MS. HARF: But if he doesn’t, he is going to face a situation where the people of his country who’ve worked so hard to be part of the international community won’t be.
QUESTION: Because --
MS. HARF: And he can face those consequences.
QUESTION: Because you – because your sanctions have affected them?
MS. HARF: Have very negatively affected the Russian economy, which will affect them.
QUESTION: So in fact, you’re saying that the goal here is to make it painful on the Russian people?
MS. HARF: Not at all.
QUESTION: Oh, okay.
MS. HARF: That is not what I said, Matt.
QUESTION: All right, well it seems like that’s what you’re saying.
MS. HARF: The goal – I will repeat it for you yet again --
QUESTION: Yeah.
MS. HARF: -- is to put enough pressure on the Russian Government that they change their calculation and do different things in the future.
QUESTION: Has the --
MS. HARF: Part of how that happens is the people of Russia say, look, I don’t want to not have access to the international financial system because President Putin is off trying to invade other countries. That’s part of what can affect a leader’s calculation, which I know you’re very well aware of.
QUESTION: Yeah – excuse me – yes, I am. But is the goal right now then to drive the Russian economy into recession?

Lessons to be learned so far:

If you're with us, you can kill as many innocent folks you want and we'll turn a blind eye. However, if you are against us, and since we've included your economy into ours, then anything you do differently than where our interest lie - then your people will direly suffer for it.

Welcome to spreading of democracy (because of our generous attitude) unto our world one nation at a time....

[Misha]

Misha, I only watched the first one- again, bunch of idiots.

Perhaps, but RUSSIAN-SPEAKERS (with or without an accent) who do not want to see the St. George ribbon that they associate with terrorists killing Ukrainians.... Again, my point remains, Putin's crusade has made patriots out of Russian-speakers in Ukraine. Quite a feat!

[Gator]

I agree with Doll that the mob-like confrontation with a man simply displaying a St. George's ribbon is too much.  A few months ago the reaction surely would have been tamer.   It does demonstrate the emotions that have erupted over this issue now that people have died. 

Although a couple of men (one appearing inebriated) hit  the Benz owner, others intervened at that point to prevent a donnybrook. 

The reaction was much tamer than when I wore my  Grand Wizard sheet in a black neighborhood. 

[jone]

Evidence? LMAO! Okay...

LOL, I was nice enough to you to give you the meaning of the words "feminist" & "feminism" as you obviously had no clue but went on to speak for an entire population of females in the military over something you were clueless about.

Then if that wasn't enough, you said this...

Like I said jone, educating you to what you think you understand is not my job. I like watching you make a fool of yourself time and again...on your own.

Besides, I'd hate to see *the same BABY crying again*, LOL.

Nice diversion.  Where are your facts.  FLAT OUT:  You don't have any.  This whole tirade for the last three months is built on VAPOR WARE.  You have no direct evidence of the US's involvement.  As a matter of course, the US has let Russia play this out and look like fools.  A good strategy. 

So,  GQ, with the entire Forum wondering, where is your evidence of US involvement in Maidan?

Your credibility on this board is completely lacking because when you are asked a direct question, you divert and insult.

Can't play with the big boys.