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Poll

If it turns out that the Woohan Institute of Virology incubated and accidentally distributed the Corona Virus what would be your response?

I would be upset with China but would not do anything.
2 (16.7%)
I would boycott China and everything it produces because the government hid a deathly plague
7 (58.3%)
I would believe China - that the disease really started in the US
0 (0%)
I would send China the bill for the lost economies and seek replacement of its government.
3 (25%)

Total Members Voted: 12

Voting closed: April 19, 2020, 02:15:29 PM

Author Topic: If China is Really Responsible......  (Read 46833 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline BillyB

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #150 on: April 11, 2020, 08:05:46 AM »
I haven't seen anything as of yet that shows the ABC report was false.  Can you show me what you used to determine it was false.   

My impression remains that Trump had made a decision to keep the US relatively open despite knowing the risks. 

Fathertime!

Not sure where HDL read it at but Google came up with this article. ABC news said they obtained the intelligence through wire and computer intercepts and satellite images. Where's the proof? Normally Intelligence agencies don't make comments to fake news stories but they did this time. Did you watch the Trump campaign ad I put in the Democratic Contender's thread? Another deception by fake news to make Trump look bad. There seems to be fake news everyday on Trump. It must be getting close to election time.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/defense-november-coronavirus-intelligence-assessment-reports-false
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline msmob

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #151 on: April 11, 2020, 08:34:49 AM »
Normally Intelligence agencies don't make comments to fake news stories

You are on a role of daftness, today ...

Offline BC

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #152 on: April 11, 2020, 08:41:58 AM »
You are on a role of daftness, today ...

Care to qualify?

Offline HoundDaddyLee

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #153 on: April 11, 2020, 08:47:47 AM »
I haven't seen anything as of yet that shows the ABC report was false.  Can you show me what you used to determine it was false.   

My impression remains that Trump had made a decision to keep the US relatively open despite knowing the risks. 

Fathertime!


FT,


Here you go...
http://www.nationalreview.com/news/pentagon-bashes-bombshell-abc-report-denies-u-s-intel-identified-coronavirus-threat-in-november/


HDL

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If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #154 on: April 11, 2020, 09:51:51 AM »
I haven't seen anything as of yet that shows the ABC report was false. 
Can you show me what you used to determine it was false.   

Fathertime!



Report from CNN
"Intelligence is often only elevated to the highest levels of the government
once analysts and officials reach a certain threshold of confidence in their
assessment.

That day came on January 3, the first day the President's daily briefing included
information the US intelligence community had gathered about the contagion in
China and the potential it had to spread, including to the US, according to a
person briefed on the matter.

Read the entire story here
http://www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/politics/intel-agencies-covid-november/index.html


Defense Official Shoots Down ABC Report Alleging Trump
Admin Ignored Virus Warnings

ABC is quietly sweeping under the rug their own sensational report they
hyped all day Wednesday, which suggested the Trump administration
ignored warnings of an impending pandemic, back in November.

That report is now in dispute, as the very military intelligence agency which
ABC’s unnamed sources cited, has come out denying the existence of such
an intelligence assessment.
http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/kristine-marsh/2020/04/09/defense-official-shoots-down-abc-report-alleging-trump-admin

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Offline BillyB

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #155 on: April 11, 2020, 10:22:53 AM »
ABC is quietly sweeping under the rug their own sensational report they
hyped all day Wednesday, which suggested the Trump administration
ignored warnings of an impending pandemic, back in November.


It was mission accomplished regardless. Fake news will gamble their reputation in exchange for costing Trump's votes. Any fake news story that shows Trump is incompetent, racist, rude or just a bad leader in any way is a story worth reporting. There's not enough true stories on Trump to prove he's a bad guy so they have to make something up everyday. The media is trying to affect an American election in ways that make Russia envious.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline jone

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #156 on: April 11, 2020, 11:34:39 AM »
As of today, China has reported 3339 deaths.   

The US has reported 20,064 deaths.   

It is an 'in your face' type figure that China offers.   My own take is that anyone who disseminates this Chinese figure is an agent of fake news.

Does anyone else have a different take?
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Offline BillyB

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #157 on: April 11, 2020, 11:47:12 AM »

China has 2 deaths per million population and their fight against the virus is almost over based on the data they provide. America currently has 61 deaths per million. Some European nations have hundreds of deaths per million and our fight against the virus is not over. All prosperous nations on earth with good health care systems and high level education have high death rates. Nations that don't do as well have very low death rates. There's no communist nation on earth that has more than a few deaths per million population. Some Communist nations such as N Korea, Vietnam, and Laos all report zero deaths. Although they are all bordering China, none of them have the problems Western nations have.

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline mhr7

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #158 on: April 11, 2020, 12:32:56 PM »
I would be interested in a small wager.  Gentleman's bet.   As of right now you're winning.   Because you think China only had the reported number of people who died.

I think that the figure is closer to the estimates in Time Magazine.   So let's say, after 3 months, if the Chinese figure has not been revised to be at least three times the current figure, you win.  But if credible sources claim it to be higher than three times the current reported figure, then I win.

The loser has to post on the forum that he was wrong and the winner was right as a separate post.

But I would not take the bet, if I were you.   It is a sure loser.

I'll take that bet.
"After your death, you will be what you were before your birth." - Schopenhauer

Offline jone

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #159 on: April 11, 2020, 12:41:38 PM »
I'll take that bet.

You 'da man, Bro.
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Offline Gator

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #160 on: April 11, 2020, 05:15:39 PM »
You 'da man, Bro.

Witnessed.  3x would be 10,000 deaths.

China will stonewall, so the issue with mhr will be what is a credible source. 

Imperial College in London is a renown science-based university, ranked as high as 10th in the world.  The university has an active program researching COVID-19, including investigations of the changing situation in Wuhan and Hubei China.  You may recall that Imperial College developed a math model showing the uS could experience over one million deaths IF mitigation measures were not undertaken. 


Imperial College  performed a thorough analysis of the limited early data from China.     They have issued 14 COVID-19 reports, which can be found here. 

   http://www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-infectious-disease-analysis/covid-19/covid-19-reports/

The early  reports showed that China was underreporting the number of cases. Here's some findings: 

Report 1 (January 17)  -  "We estimate that a total of 1,723 cases of 2019-nCoV in Wuhan City had onset of symptoms by 12th January."  China had reported only 45 cases by January 16.   

"....magnitude of these numbers suggests that substantial human to human transmission cannot be ruled out."  This is 5 days before WHO stated "...there was evidence of human-to-human transmission in Wuhan but more investigation was needed to understand the full extent of transmission."

Report 2 (January 22) - "Our estimate of the number of cases in Wuhan with symptoms onset by January 18th is now 4,000.... Our analysis suggests that the COVID-19 outbreak has caused substantially more cases of moderate or severe respiratory illness in Wuhan than have currently been detected."   On January 18 China had reported only 121 cases.

"However, recent rapid increases in officially reported confirmed case numbers in China suggest that case detection and reporting has been substantially enhanced in recent days."

"Exit screening [ed. from Wuhan airport] may have reduced exports in recent days, in which case our baseline prediction may be an underestimate of the true number of cases in Wuhan.

Report 3 (January 25) - "The unprecedented quarantining of multiple cities in Hubei province, China on 23rd January 2020 clearly marks a new stage of the public health response to this outbreak....It is unclear at the current time whether this outbreak can be contained within China; uncertainties include the severity spectrum of the disease caused by this virus and whether cases with relatively mild symptoms are able to transmit the virus efficiently."

Report 4 (February 10) - "For cases detected in Hubei, we estimate the CFR (Case Fatality Ratio) to be 18%. For cases detected in travellers outside mainland China, we obtain central estimates of the CFR in the range 1.2-5.6%.  Published data from China suggest that the majority of detected and reported cases have moderate or severe illness, with atypical pneumonia and/or acute respiratory
distress being used to define suspected cases eligible for testing. In these individuals, clinical outcomes are likely to be more severe, and hence any estimates of the CFR are likely to be high."

Report 6 (February 21) - "Although travel restrictions from Wuhan City and other cities across China may have reduced the absolute number of travellers to and from China, we estimated that about two thirds of COVID-19 cases exported from mainland China have remained undetected worldwide, potentially resulting in multiple chains of as yet undetected human-to-human transmission outside mainland China."

I mention this because in a February interview, Imperial College rep stated the Chinese are reporting number of new cases/day up to 50,000 less than the actual number.   One can only infer that deaths are also grossly under-reported.  Alas, no such report yet. 

Maybe Imperial College will report information about true number of deaths in China. 

Offline jone

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #161 on: April 12, 2020, 12:31:55 AM »
I am an infrequent reader of NY Magazine.   But the article attached, from the Intelligencer strikes right to the heart of how we got into our current situation.   What is more is that typically the people normally reading this magazine would not have the unadulterated rage against the Chinese that is the opinion of this magazine article.   

I said that it would take around a month for people, sitting in their homes, to get really upset with China.   I think it is actually starting now.   And by the end of the month it will be a snowball gathering steam down a huge mountain.

China's only way out is to bare their soul and come clean.   But it looks to many like China is attempting to use disinformation to try and rid themselves of their problem.   The world is alert to Chinese misdeeds and disinformation will not assist them.

One of the things that I noticed in the reading of this article:   Japan is already subsidizing its companies to relocate from China.   They are willing to pay the price not to do business with China anymore. 

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/andrew-sullivan-time-for-conscious-uncoupling-with-china.html
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Offline fathertime

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #162 on: April 12, 2020, 07:11:36 AM »
   

I said that it would take around a month for people, sitting in their homes, to get really upset with China.   I think it is actually starting now.   And by the end of the month it will be a snowball gathering steam down a huge mountain.

China's only way out is to bare their soul and come clean.   But it looks to many like China is attempting to use disinformation to try and rid themselves of their problem.   The world is alert to Chinese misdeeds and disinformation will not assist them.
No, there will always be a minority of the population that is disgruntled with China.  Before the virus occurred they were already disgruntled with China, and this is just the latest effort to blame China.  Your hope that everybody gangs up on China is just a way to propel the US by weakening it's competition. 

One of the things that I noticed in the reading of this article:   Japan is already subsidizing its companies to relocate from China.   They are willing to pay the price not to do business with China anymore. 

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/andrew-sullivan-time-for-conscious-uncoupling-with-china.html
China itself has outsourced some of it's manufacturing.  Why?  Because Chinese labor is actually expensive compared to Vietnam and India.  In 30 years when India is a manufacturing powerhouse, people like yourself will be grumbling about how 'evil India' is for making all our goods and competing unfairly.   Really it is the US that is at fault for not making our own stuff, some of which is actually vital. 

Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

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If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #163 on: April 12, 2020, 08:02:48 AM »
No, there will always be a minority of the population that is disgruntled with China. 
Before the virus occurred they were already disgruntled with China, and this is just
the latest effort to blame China. 
Fathertime!

It started in China, they lied about it and it's their fault.
Use Google and find a reference that thinks this isn't on
China.



Words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words

I HATE THE USA!

Fathertime!

We know

FSUW are not for entry level daters
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If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
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Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline msmob

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #164 on: April 12, 2020, 08:59:19 AM »
It started in China, they lied about it and it's their fault.
Use Google and find a reference that thinks this isn't on
China.


That's EASY ..

Studies Show N.Y. Outbreak Originated in Europe ... possibly different strain
1/ http://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/us/coronavirus-live-updates.html



2/   "'American coronavirus': China pushes propaganda casting doubt on virus origin

Diplomats, state media and officials in China encourage idea that Covid-19 came from the US"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/12/conspiracy-theory-that-coronavirus-originated-in-us-gaining-traction-in-china



3/ Iran leader refuses US help; cites coronavirus conspiracy theory


http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/iran-leader-refuses-cites-coronavirus-conspiracy-theory-200322145122752.html


4/ 'it started' ... in Russia ... The Masons did it .. .. with the 'help' of Soros and Bill Gates..

They 'blew up ' Vectors labs in Novosibrsk, 'set fire to forests' to spread it to China and because the 'world is flat'  it stopped / started there ..


http://meduza.io/en/feature/2020/04/10/no-laughing-matter


May be - as we see very often on here ;) .. Google is not our friend ...


« Last Edit: April 12, 2020, 09:08:44 AM by msmob »

Online 2tallbill

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If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #165 on: April 12, 2020, 09:10:08 AM »

That's EASY ..

May be - as we see very often on here ;) .. Google is not our friend ...

I thought everyone knew it was the Masons setting fires in the Tundra.
(I'll explain the eyeball in the pyramid in the dollar bill later)

FT would have to defend the claims in those articles. He makes proclamations 
and then he gets called on it and then he never backs up what he says.

FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline msmob

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #166 on: April 12, 2020, 09:18:37 AM »

FT would have to defend the claims in those articles. He makes proclamations 
and then he gets called on it and then he never backs up what he says.

Hmm,

I think BC has busted 'someone you know - intimately' -  for THAT one, too ;)

Only he used data .. that that 'someone' couldn't  refute !


Offline LAman

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #167 on: April 12, 2020, 09:40:29 AM »
It started in China, they lied about it and it's their fault.
Use Google and find a reference that thinks this isn't on
China.


I googled 'coronavirus' , get where it sent me??? I think 99% of every article is contained in RWD!!! One stop shop!!

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24217.0
 
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Offline BillyB

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #168 on: April 12, 2020, 09:45:50 AM »
I googled 'coronavirus' , get where it sent me??? I think 99% of every article is contained in RWD!!! One stop shop!!

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24217.0

What is going on here? We used to be THE place to talk politics. Now we're the place to talk coronavirus!
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline LAman

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #169 on: April 12, 2020, 10:33:10 AM »
What is going on here? We used to be THE place to talk politics. Now we're the place to talk coronavirus!

Politics has merely morphed into health issues.

Still the know-it-all's posting links from articles found in the internet that we all know are 100% true!!

Arguing who is right or wrong still the underlying message here!!!
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Offline GQBlues

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #170 on: April 12, 2020, 11:16:17 AM »
Politics has merely morphed into health issues.

Still the know-it-all's posting links from articles found in the internet that we all know are 100% true!!

Arguing who is right or wrong still the underlying message here!!!

You obviously had been away for a while LAman. RWD had been resided by people lately who possess powers of knowing far more about your place of residence, and the current events thereof, despite not being there, or worst never ever visited it.

It really is pretty amazing to behold.
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #171 on: April 12, 2020, 11:16:37 AM »
Hmm,

I think BC has busted 'someone you know - intimately' -  for THAT one, too ;)

Only he used data .. that that 'someone' couldn't  refute !

Do you have an argument about something?

Surely you aren't defending FT for posting silly speculations as fact
without backup (for the thousandth time).




FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #172 on: April 12, 2020, 11:25:02 AM »
I googled 'coronavirus' , get where it sent me??? I think 99% of every article is contained in RWD!!! One stop shop!!

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24217.0

What has that got to do with the price of tea in China or the absence
of air on the moon? If there is a topic that you want to talk about you
can start a thread and talk about it. Heck, I'll join in if I know anything
about it.



FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline LAman

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #173 on: April 12, 2020, 11:42:19 AM »
What has that got to do with the price of tea in China or the absence
of air on the moon? If there is a topic that you want to talk about you
can start a thread and talk about it. Heck, I'll join in if I know anything
about it.

The point is.... people throwing articles about the virus as if they are proving their point.
It is only to shows their self interests. Who knows what is true or not.
Instead of articles, try do some actual RESEARCH, which takes hours and hours of looking at different viewpoints and data!! Then come here with some substance...…. and have an actual discussion!!!
If there is nothing about 'russian' or 'women' then hopefully there is a discussion...….not about right or wrong, about viewpoints and why!!
Life isn't tied with a bow, but it's still a gift

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Re: If China is Really Responsible......
« Reply #174 on: April 12, 2020, 11:46:14 AM »
You obviously had been away for a while LAman. RWD had been resided by people lately who possess powers of knowing far more about your place of residence, and the current events thereof, despite not being there, or worst never ever visited it.

It really is pretty amazing to behold.

I am always amazed at the level of expertise here. Forget Ghostbusters, here you will find answers for anything!!!!

Maybe discuss world peace???? Then start again the arguing, name calling, bitching, right\wrong , i'm better than you attitude.
Life isn't tied with a bow, but it's still a gift

 

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