Moscow Night Life

[shakespear]

Your post about "hookers" has been removed.

Please refrain from posting such materials at RWD in the future.

- Dan

Got it.  Prostitution doesn't exist in Russia.  It's nothing that any member of this forum is going to come into contact with if and when they visit the country.  Head in the sand topic.  My apologizes.

[IAmZon]

I understand Dan's sensitivity to the subject - it is a slippery slope.  Before you know it, the quality of dialog can be damaged. I do not think Dan is overly prudish.  Or otherwise, wants to police thoughts ... I think he has learned from experience.  So, it is best that we not talk about Plan A's and Plan B's here.

But, I would encourage you to continue your post on the night life in Moscow - and in St. Petersburg for that matter. 

On these subjects we can be as candid as the truth justifies. What time does the party start.  What time do they end.  What are the current selection of drugs that are pushed.  Are their "nice girls" in places like this?  There is tons to discuss ....

================

However, to regress to Shake's point - many AM lack "street smart,", and is the root cause to much of the SCAMS that men report.  The truth is that many AM are operating on a different base of assumptions.  Many are not worldly, or suffering from the "white knight" syndrome.  It is best for AM to get a clue on how things work, and that includes pretty girls that are less than sincere.

We see this manifested in the term sex- tourist.   I know there are men who might use the promise of marriage to have fun and manipulate women.  That is a not a sex tourist.  That is a pig.  The term sex tourist strikes me as a uniquely American term.  Think of what it implies!  In other countries, that are far less uptight, such discussion would never be tolerated in the first place.  It would be like accusing someone of eating, or breathing, on vacation.  Just my 2 cents

[shakespear]

In other countries, that are far less uptight, such discussion would never be tolerated in the first place.  It would be like accusing someone of eating, or breathing, on vacation.  Just my 2 cents   

Exactly!

Many times us uptight Americans forget we're dealing with women from countries that have a more "European" attitude when it comes to sex and prostitution in general. 

Whether they intend to participate in prostitution during their trip or not, men have questions about this topic.  Their curiosity is only natural.  In most cases they're afraid to ask these questions publicly because they fear a negative reaction or even retaliation similar to how Dan handled my post on the subject.  I'd invite forum members with questions on this topic to send them to me by PM to have them dealt with in a confidential manner, except for some unknown reason, my PM capabilities have been disabled by forum management.   

[Vaughn]

There is tons to discuss ....

There certainly is, and why we're limiting ourselves to the call girl splinter facet of Moscow nightlife
beats me. The OP, as is well-known, has been chased from countless boards, for posting the same
rhetoric. His authority on the subject, as far as I'm concerned - is unquestioned. What I do question,
however, is his motive in repeating the sermon across cyberspace - and the obvious answer is to fill
his need for impressing an audience.

This guy, with his long experience, should be better than that. In his defense, he takes a merciless
beating on some Yahoo boards. Shakespear and I share a mutual dislike on one person in particular,
and other than we both have Russian wives and stepdaughters, the similarities end there. Shake, I
make my plea public: Instead of focusing on your favorite topic, why not branch into the many other
areas where you've had firsthand experience?

Start with pickpockets - they're part of the nightlife, too.

In most cases they're afraid to ask these questions publicly because they fear a negative reaction or even retaliation similar to how Dan handled my post on the subject.

That was retaliation? C'mon, Shake, the doughnut crowd at "The Open" would be rolling with laughter.
Your response is the same canned retort I've read a dozen times elsewhere. Post your e-mail address - it's allowed,
and you'll be able to impress your throng privately without upsetting the Victorian apple cart.

  

[shakespear]

There certainly is, and why we're limiting ourselves to the call girl splinter facet of Moscow nightlife
beats me.   

One post in a new thread that has become one of the most popular on RWD is hardly as monopolizing as you'd like to make it sound. 

The OP, as is well-known, has been chased from countless boards, for posting the same
rhetoric. His authority on the subject, as far as I'm concerned - is unquestioned. 

Thanks, I think.  "Countless" would be another of your well known exaggerations.   

Start with pickpockets - they're part of the nightlife, too. 

Don't personally know of anybody, nor have I heard any stories concerning anyone that has been the victim of a pickpocket while in a top or second tier night club or restaurant in Moscow. 

Care to answer my previous question about what point you were trying to make by quoting my good buddy Doug Steele?

[Vaughn]

Care to answer my previous question about what point you were trying to make by quoting my good buddy Doug Steele?

Yeah, I do. You were correct in implying Mr. Steele was speaking of Moscow restraurants in
general, and not his own places. I stand corrected, and will go back and delete the quote as
I did take it out of context.

One post in a new thread that has become one of the most popular on RWD is hardly as monopolizing as you'd like to make it sound.

I didn't say nor imply "monopolizing". I clearly wrote "limiting". Quite a difference. Dude, I'm not here to bash
you, just to ask why Moscow nightlife, in your defintion, includes only clubs that offer a bevy of prostitutes?

I once sent an e-mail offering help, if needed, when your billfold got gone in St. Pete...  forgot about that?
Or does the qualifying "while in a top or second tier night club" make it not really a nightlife incident?

[Gator]

Shake,

You and I obviously travel in different circles.

I have encountered a pickpocket, yet in my 20+ trips to the FSU, I never encountered knowingly a prostitute.  

Jack and I debated this same point a long time ago, and he did not believe me.  And I don't care to repeat it.

 
 

[Vaughn]

Shakester,

  I tried, I really did - but the "Modify" icon has disappeared from my post quoting Steele.
I then tried to report it to the Moderator, and got this message:

You can't report your own post to the moderator, that doesn't make sense!

I will PM Dan to knock it out of there, and again, I apologize.

[shakespear]

you, just to ask why Moscow nightlife, in your definition, includes only clubs that offer a bevy of prostitutes? 

More exaggerating.  I've mentioned several clubs and restaurants in this thread so far, and only one, Night Flight features prostitutes. 

I once sent an email offering help, if needed, when your billfold got gone in St. Pete...  forgot about that?
Or does the qualifying "while in a top or second tier night club" make it not really a nightlife incident?

Well, seeing how that happened in the middle of the day in the Peter Metro, no, it's not really a nightlife incident. 

[shakespear]

I have encountered a pickpocket, yet in my 20+ trips to the FSU, I never encountered knowingly a prostitute.  

Really?

Never stayed in an old "commie-style" hotel and had the phone in your room ring literally 10-20 times a night asking if you wanted a "beautiful Russian girl"?

I know in Volgograd, the phones in hotel rooms come with "on/off switches" so you can disable the phone so as to not be bothered by all the prostitution solicitations by the mafia girls servicing that particular location.

[Vaughn]

Gator, don't bother - Shake is never wrong.

And that's no exaggeration.

[shakespear]

Shakester,
I tried, I really did - but the "Modify" icon has disappeared from my post quoting Steele.
I then tried to report it to the Moderator, and got this message:

You can't report your own post to the moderator, that doesn't make sense!

I will PM Dan to knock it out of there, and again, I apologize.

Don't worry about it.  I was just trying to understand what your point was.  I've known Doug since my first visit to Moscow in 1997 and he's never been much of an elite/exclusive club guy.  Heck the guy wears shorts, hoodies and tennis shoes 12 months out of the year.  The closest he came to upper-class was "Doug's Steak House", right across the street from the Tsvetnoy Bulvar Metro Station.  That was back in 2005-2006 and it failed shortly after opening.

Doug has always been a master marketer.  His efforts have always been directed at the common man and not the 'eliteny'.  He opened the first western style bar in Moscow back in 1992 called Moose Head.  Then he had his highly successful run at The Hungry Duck.  Then he took over the old place called Chesterfield's and operated it successfully as Doug & Marty's Boar House.  Now he's the General Manager at PaPa's Place.

I'm proud to call him a good friend.           

[Admin]

Got it.  Prostitution doesn't exist in Russia.  It's nothing that any member of this forum is going to come into contact with if and when they visit the country.  Head in the sand topic.  My apologizes.

shakespear,

Couple of things:

>>My apologizes<<

Since it is obvious from the preceding sentences you are NOT apologetic, any offer of apology is clearly sarcastic and insincere. As such, it would be best kept unstated.

>>Prostitution doesn't exist in Russia<<

Nobody made that claim.

>>It's nothing that any member of this forum is going to come into contact with if and when they visit the country.<<

They may (just as they may come into contact with prostitution right here in the local city of ---- fill in the blank) - and they may not. That is not the point.

RWD is not willing to allow this venue for use in assisting or promoting prostitution directly or indirectly. There is a giant difference between a post that addresses the issues of prostitution in Russia (FSU) versus one that provides the basic information for someone who is SEEKING prostitution to find their goals. Your one post was, IMO, the latter, hence, its removal.

rivardco made the point well when he described this issue as "slippery slope" - and one that RWD is not going to allow. Period.

There are plenty other venues available for someone to find that sort of thing. Anyone who ventures to RWD looking for such information is certainly capable of finding it elsewhere - and that is where they will need to search - elsewhere.

>>Head in the sand topic.<<

No, it has nothing to do with having one's head in the sand. It also has nothing to do with being puritanical or prudish or anything other than the simple fact that finding a prostitute, or promotion of prostitution, is NOT the intended purpose of RWD, nor will it be so long as I have anything to do with RWD.

- Dan

[Sculpto]

this argument is pretty stupid.

Shakespere.. there are plenty for venues for mongers.. why persist in promoting our agenda here where 99% of the guys are looking for marriage?  Most guys aren't interested in Moscow anyway since it has the reputation of not being the best place to find a lady.  

Maybe you are just shilling for nightflight.. is business down that much that you have to come here?

[shakespear]

RWD is not willing to allow this venue for use in assisting or promoting prostitution directly or indirectly. There is a giant difference between a post that addresses the issues of prostitution in Russia (FSU) versus one that provides the basic information for someone who is SEEKING prostitution to find their goals. Your one post was, IMO, the latter, hence, its removal.  

Thank you for the explanation.  Of course I will follow your guidelines and directions.  

[Gator]

Really?

I said I did not want to discuss it.  You obviously would use my comment to piggyback your own revelations about working girls.  

I did see an American dork with a skank.  Could that have been you?

More exaggerating.  I've mentioned several clubs and restaurants in this thread so far, and only one, Night Flight features prostitutes.  

Exactly which post above were the "several restaurants" mentioned by you?
 

[shakespear]

Maybe you are just shilling for nightflight.. is business down that much that you have to come here?

Like all Russian businesses, they've been hurt by the economic downturn over the last 14 months.  But while most Moscow businesses report a drop between 50-70%, Sonny and Tommy tell me they're only down about 25-30% during the same period.  Since they're both millionaires ten times over and are westerners who have been successfully operating a business in Moscow for over 17 consecutive years, I don't think they need me for a shill.

BTW, have you ever been there?  As I said before, the kitchen and restaurant is absolutely the best in Moscow.  Most ingredients are trucked in from Sweden every two weeks.   

[Gator]

Shake,

Vaughn asked you about all the other venues to enjoy the evening in Moscow?

Bolshoi makes for an outstanding evening.  Theater as well, except I saw only "Cats" and anything else (Children’s shows) where it did not matter my comprehension of Russian is nil.   Then there is the circus (two in fact in Moscow).  Concerts are delightful.  Maybe these are not "evening" entertainment as they conclude by 11 pm.

I have been to only a couple of clubs.  B-2 on the Garden Ring?  (four floors with different live music on each floor).  Did you ever go to "place" such as Pancho Villa.  Live band (sometimes Mexicans), pretty single girls, tequila shooters, etc. My wife and I went there several times because she likes Latin music, Mexican food and tequila.

Restaurants galore, and some of them are not that expensive yet have good food, e. g. Courvoisier at Prospect Mira and Garden Ring.  And if you are dating a Muscovite, she will take you to out of the way places where the non-rich dine such as an Uzbeki restaurant.  Maybe the Uzbeki belly dancer was available and i did not know it?

What amazes me is that many of the Moscow restaurants have live entertainment.  Russians expect live music at dinner.

[Admin]

shakespear,

Out of curiosity, have you seen the downside to FSU prostitution?

As you seem to be more than a little aware of the consumer side of the equation - do you also bear witness to the other side(s) of the equation/transaction and the consequences? I mean personal witness.

As I wrote earlier, any worthwhile discussion to address FSU prostitution is in-bounds at RWD, provided it is not directed at the avenue of assisting/promoting prostitution. Somehow I think a truly well-researched and well-reasoned debate on the overall topic of prostitution in the FSU is NOT likely to be a terribly useful avenue for whore-mongers.

- Dan

[shakespear]

Exactly which post above were the "several restaurants" mentioned by you?

Night Flight
Rai
Soho Rooms
PaPa's Place

all are restaurants as well as night clubs.  You need to get out more Gator   

BTW the Best Mexican Restaurant in Moscow is a place called LaCantina.  Location: Tverskaya 5, just a 2 minute walk north of the Ohotne Ryad (Red Line) Metro Station - It's on the west side of Tverskaya less than 100 yards north of the Ritz Carlton.  In fact, they've been open in this same location since 1993 which in itself is an amazing feat.  On Sunday's they offer a combo special -

Sausage Quesidilla
Chicken Fajatia
Chips & Chilli Sausa
Mexican Chicken Wing
Jalapino pepers

AND
A shot of tequila

All for only 550 pyb.

And they have live latin music in the evenings.  I'd highly recommend it to anyone looking for a
taste of Mexico on Sunday's in Moscow.  Phone: 692-5388

Where is the Coldest Beer In Moscow?  The place is called "Australian Open" and it's located at 10 Leningradskaya (phone 614-1749).  They feature ice cold Foster's that actually foams up after it's poured. Quite a treat in normally tepid beer Moscow.  They had a full English menu but the prices were outrageously high.  So, if you happen to be in the area, DEFINITELY drop by for a cold beer but make plans to eat somewhere else.

Take Green Line to Belorussaya stop. Walk under the highway bridge and then north about 200m on
the east side of the road - it will be right there.

And for those Subjects of Her Majesty looking for a place to get a proper pint of Guinness, try Silver's.  In Moscow, the best place to meet British and other Commonwealth folks is at Silver's Irish Pub.  Steve has keep this place on top of the Moscow social scene since 1992.  It's one of the only places you can get a proper pint of Guinness right next to a cool pint of Baltika #7.  Rugby, cricket and soccer on the telly 24/7. 

How to find it?  Just a short walk north of the Kremlin, Tverskaya Ulista #5/6.  Enter from Nititsky Pereulok.  Phone 290-4222.

That better?

[shakespear]

I have been to only a couple of clubs.  B-2 on the Garden Ring?  (four floors with different live music on each floor). 

Yea, been there.  Kind of a "teen club" compared to what I'm used to visiting.  5th Floor (for VIPs) wasn't bad and gave you a little elbow room from the masses.  If I had 5 pyb for every time they played "It's My Life" by BonJovi I could have paid the cover charge.   

Did you ever go to "place" such as Pancho Villa.  Live band (sometimes Mexicans), pretty single girls, tequila shooters, etc. My wife and I went there several times because she likes Latin music, Mexican food and tequila.

Yep.  I believe my friend Doug Steele was responsible for opening this place as well.  Not bad Mexican food by Moscow standards.  Great place to take a date who has never had Mexican food before.  Little on the pricey side, but it is Moscow. 

Courvoisier at Prospect Mira and Garden Ring. 

My good friend Moscow Ricky's favorite place.  Really nice for a cafe.  When we're rolling in the the early morning we often stop there for their fantastic omelets. 

[shakespear]

shakespear,

Out of curiosity, have you seen the downside to FSU prostitution?

As you seem to be more than a little aware of the consumer side of the equation - do you also bear witness to the other side(s) of the equation/transaction and the consequences? I mean personal witness.

As I wrote earlier, any worthwhile discussion to address FSU prostitution is in-bounds at RWD, provided it is not directed at the avenue of assisting/promoting prostitution. Somehow I think a truly well-researched and well-reasoned debate on the overall topic of prostitution in the FSU is NOT likely to be a terribly useful avenue for whore-mongers.

- Dan

To be honest Dan, IMHO, the "consequences" of prostitution; with the exception of human slave trafficking, are rather self imposed.  I have no experience with prostitution at the lower levels of the hierarchy so can't comment either way on that activity. 

But to answer you question directly, yes I've seen it at Night Flight and to some extent at the old Boar House (now called Hot Dogs).  The ladies are there because they freely choose to parlay their beauty and intelligence into an income that would be impossible for them to achieve working a normal job.  Most of these girls make between $50,000 and $100,000 tax free per year; not bad for even expensive Moscow don't 'cha think?  Some of the more strikingly beautiful ladies can make over $1000 per night by servicing two customers in the same evening.  The ladies don't have "pimps".  The don't work for the nightclub.  They keep all the money they make and are free to decide who they'll go home with and whom they refuse to do business with.  Most have new apartments, drive nice cars and have dachas in the countryside.  All have fantastic wardrobes of clothes.  Some sport "enhanced boobs" thanks to the skill of an expensive western plastic surgeon.  The majority of the girls I spoke with enjoy the interaction and socializing with men who are highly successful in business, well educated and with very few exceptions, treat them with respect.  We're talking about men who can afford to pay between $400 - $600 per night in order to have sex with runway model/NFL cheerleader calibre looking women.   

At Night Flight, prostitution is truly a "victimless crime". 

Dan or room moderator, I'd suggest this thread be split off into a seperate thread. 

[Phil dAmore]

The "feis control" guys consider themselves a type of artist.  They believe that the crowd in their club every night is a work of art in progress.  Some of these dudes make 10,000 Euros per month and only work 3 nights each week.

Not bad for a freaking doorman, which is what these pretentious a-holes really are.

[Admin]

To be honest Dan, IMHO, the "consequences" of prostitution; with the exception of human slave trafficking, are rather self imposed.  I have no experience with prostitution at the lower levels of the hierarchy so can't comment either way on that activity. 

But to answer you question directly, yes I've seen it at Night Flight and to some extent at the old Boar House (now called Hot Dogs).  The ladies are there because the freely choose to parlay their beauty and intelligence into an income that would be impossible for them to achieve working a normal job.  Most of these girls make between $50,000 and $100,000 tax free per year; not bad for even expensive Moscow don't 'cha think?  Some of the more strikingly beautiful ladies can make over $1000 per night by servicing two customers in the same evening.  The ladies don't have "pimps".  They keep all the money they make and are free to decide who they'll go home with and whom they refuse to do business with.  Most have new apartments, drive nice cars and have dachas in the countryside.  All have fantastic wardrobes of clothes.  Some sport "enhanced boobs" thanks to the skill of an expensive western plastic surgeon.  The majority of the girls I spoke with enjoy the interaction and socializing with men who are highly successful in business, well educated and with very few exceptions, treat them with respect.  We're talking about men who can afford to pay between $400 - $600 per night.   

At Night Flight, prostitution is truly a "victimless crime". 

I think you are seeing what you want to see.

If you believe a hooker at one of the high-priced places is not beholden (as in quaking for fear of their life if they cross them) to a 'pimp' of some sort, I think you are badly mistaken. Nothing so brazen and salacious as high-priced hookers escapes the attention of well-heeled organized crime in the FSU especially.

It is easy to see prostitution from a consumer's view and rationalize the "victimless" nature. After all, to explore (or admit) otherwise would be to shatter the very myth and fantasy prostitution is built upon.

When you've spoken with the prostitutes, did any of them have children? Daughters? Did ANY of them aspire for their daughters to become prostitutes?

- Dan

[shakespear]

If you believe a hooker at one of the high-priced places is not beholden (as in quaking for fear of their life if they cross them) to a 'pimp' of some sort, I think you are badly mistaken. Nothing so brazen and salacious as high-priced hookers escapes the attention of well-heeled organized crime in the FSU especially. 

All I can say is that's not what the ladies tell me.  At Night Flight, both the men and the women are treated as "customers" and are protected from disruptive factors as such.  They both pay a cover charge to enter.  The club has some of the best security in Moscow which keeps the undesirables away.  There are enough police standing outside to scare away any mafia hood trying to shake someone down.

Frankly, I think it would be pretty easy for a girl, operating in a limited access club like Night Flight to do so without drawing too much attention on herself from the criminal element.     

When you've spoken with the prostitutes, did any of them have children? Daughters? Did ANY of them aspire for their daughters to become prostitutes? 

Many have sons or daughters and used their basically free weekends to spend time with them.  Of course they probably wouldn't want their daughters to follow the same career choice they have made.  So you think they're better off sitting in some office or shop making $400-$500 per week and having to screw their lecherous boss for fee every two weeks to collect their paycheck?