A Discovery Channel / TLC UK documentary featured Dream Connections this time

[Mark Davis]

Boethius - what did you think of Jodie Marsh?

[Boethius]

I haven't watched the link, but given Faux Pas' comments, I will, and then I will let you know.

[fathertime]

I just watched the whole video.  I felt the editing was a little unfair to some of the guys, and made them appear a little asinine for no reason.  Like when the heavyset guy sat down, and they cut to a few ladies with nasty looks on their faces like they were disgusted.    I also though some of the questions were asked in a way that was a little loaded.   I think that was a fair cross section of the different types that go on these trips, except I agree that the guy who was killed story was just to add drama. 




I thought almost all the men wound up looking like asses, TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC. A couple of them did seem a little off.    I was asked by an agency owner (Who I trust) to participate in one of these shows.  I declined because I strongly suspect we would have been asked some bs loaded questions or made to look foolish, and would not be represented properly during the editing process.  I also did not want the extra attention. 


Mark it looks like you run a fair business and I'm glad you are coming off looking pretty good.   


Fathertime!   

[AC]

Mark it looks like you run a fair business and I'm glad you are coming off looking pretty good.   

Fathertime!

 

[Mark Davis]

Humble thanks to you and fathertime.  I'm feeling better that we did it.


I look forward to hearing Boethius comments after watching as well. 

[lonedrake]

We took the risk.  Do you think it was worth it?  Should we have agreed to do this?

I'd love to hear your thoughts after you've seen it.

I thought the video was fair. You and Anna came out looking great. The guys were fine too. Sure a couple were a little weird, but everyone expects much worse.

 I also think Jodie was fair to the whole situation. She asked fair questions. She also admitted her mistake of a marriage and how she has been trying to find love. Going back to the "crime scene " was odd, but people understand that situations like that happen worldwide.

I would assume you did this primarily to advertise. Your target audience is not women….so no need to worry what some women think about your business.

[Mark Davis]

Your target audience is not women….

Spot on.  Great point.

[Patagonie]

Dude - thanks for the kudos.  It means a lot to me. 


By the way, we were originally told that the show was going to be called, "Jodie Marsh on International Marriage".  Supposedly the network made the change to the MOB label.  A lot of promises were made that did not happen.  If something like this came our way again we'd certainly demand a few things more now that we've been through this once.

You have opened largely the doors of your house, Anna opened  the more intimated space of her childhook and of her family and guess which message the public is getting from this ?
In Nikolaev they live like farmers  in 1920.
The lesson is that there are some things to say and some things to not say because it can be used against you.
We are here a selected and rare public, due to our international experience, but you cannot change the mindset of a journalist, and it is this mindset (add also business reasons) which will read the entire story and therefore print and deliver the matrix of the final rush.
How Anna feels ? Does she feel betrayed somewhere ? I would not be surprised. Because you know, both of you, all of you have done and said things which didn't appear in the video, and you woud have probably wanted to have the missing on the screen, correct ?   

[Patagonie]

So who commits most of the crime in the U.S.?  Women?  Is it even close?  The "mindset" conforms to something referred to as "reality".  It is not about "most men", BTW.

It's a stupid argument.

Bo

You perfectly know that the violence is practised mainly between men. Which is not about women, this is only a story of men.
You also know that feminine physical violence is reaching a +700%for  the last 30 years in US, the trend is the same in France.
And for the violence practised against women coming from men, the message given to the public has the same taste as what Russians and inhabitants of the Donetsk and Lugansk Oblast are suffering when it comes about the ukrainian nazi snake.

I have analysed the number of men and women deaths here in France  in the framework of the criminal law (men or women death's in the framework of the civilian law not counted)
and the number of men deaths is more important than women.
More men than women died because of women's involvement.
But the propaganda here advertizes the opposite.

 

[pitbull]

Bo

You perfectly know that the violence is practised mainly between men. Which is not about women, this is only a story of men.
You also know that feminine physical violence is reaching a +700%for  the last 30 years in US, the trend is the same in France.
And for the violence practised against women coming from men, the message given to the public has the same taste as what Russians and inhabitants of the Donetsk and Lugansk Oblast are suffering when it comes about the ukrainian nazi snake.

I have analysed the number of men and women deaths here in France  in the framework of the criminal law (men or women death's in the framework of the civilian law not counted)
and the number of men deaths is more important than women.
More men than women died because of women's involvement.
But the propaganda here advertizes the opposite.

Violence against women is overwhelmingly committed by men. Period.

This is especially relevant to the topic of this video as you look at deaths as a result of domestic violence.

For USA, according to  the American Bar Association website (most lawyers are men btw), "In 2000, 1,247 women and 440 men were killed by an intimate partner. In recent years, an intimate partner killed approximately 33% of female murder victims and 4% of male murder victims." I do not have statistics, but would not be surprised if a good number that men "killed by intimate partners" were killed by men.

And this is the country with a lot of protection for women. The situation in Russia is horrible. Every 4th woman suffers from domestic violence in Russia. Every year, 10,000 women are killed by husbands or partner (MEN) - in Russia. ONE WOMAN DIES FROM DOMESTIC VIOLENCE COMMITTED BY A MAN EVERY HOUR.

Men are stronger and more aggressive by nature and they commit most violent crimes, against men women and children alike. Period.

I watched the show and I think the issue of abuse is raised absolutely correctly, given the transaction nature of those "quest tours,' the fact that most of those women do not speak the language, have a support system or know the laws of their new countries, and to the fact that the MOB business attracts a disproportionate number of control freaks looking for a submissive traditional wife.

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[Mark Davis]

You have opened largely the doors of your house, Anna opened  the more intimated space of her childhook and of her family and guess which message the public is getting from this ?
In Nikolaev they live like farmers  in 1920.
The lesson is that there are some things to say and some things to not say because it can be used against you.
We are here a selected and rare public, due to our international experience, but you cannot change the mindset of a journalist, and it is this mindset (add also business reasons) which will read the entire story and therefore print and deliver the matrix of the final rush.
How Anna feels ? Does she feel betrayed somewhere ? I would not be surprised. Because you know, both of you, all of you have done and said things which didn't appear in the video, and you woud have probably wanted to have the missing on the screen, correct ?

Of course there is an aspect where were both feel disappointed by some aspects of the final editing - and their agenda was revealed - and other aspects were very favorable in showing the system we've tried to create. 

We decided early on in our business that we had to be transparent to some extent if we were going to be effective as interpersonal matchmakers.  I might do this again, but I'd just highly script anything involving us or our families - Anna might not see enough value to consider it.  She's very pragmatic about these things - and certainly not traumatized in any way.  She has more of a, "Well, what did you expect?" view on it.


That was a very insightful question, Patagonie.  This is one of the main thoughts I had when I posed the question to the group.

[Faux Pas]

Violence against women is overwhelmingly committed by men. Period.

This is especially relevant to the topic of this video as you look at deaths as a result of domestic violence.

For USA, according to  the American Bar Association website (most lawyers are men btw), "In 2000, 1,247 women and 440 men were killed by an intimate partner. In recent years, an intimate partner killed approximately 33% of female murder victims and 4% of male murder victims." I do not have statistics, but would not be surprised if a good number that men "killed by intimate partners" were killed by men.

And this is the country with a lot of protection for women. The situation in Russia is horrible. Every 4th woman suffers from domestic violence in Russia. Every year, 10,000 women are killed by husbands or partner (MEN) - in Russia. ONE WOMAN DIES FROM DOMESTIC VIOLENCE COMMITTED BY A MAN EVERY HOUR.

Men are stronger and more aggressive by nature and they commit most violent crimes, against men women and children alike. Period.

I watched the show and I think the issue of abuse is raised absolutely correctly, given the transaction nature of those "quest tours,' the fact that most of those women do not speak the language, have a support system or know the laws of their new countries, and to the fact that the MOB business attracts a disproportionate number of control freaks looking for a submissive traditional wife.

[/size][/color]

All excellent points and I agree with most of it except the bolded sentence. The subject of abuse wasn't raised correctly. The way and manner it was raised was an indictment for all East/West relationships. There was an inference that abuse was a given, it isn't. Abuse didn't belong in the story unless there was an abuser included in the group. The story was about these customers of Mark's and the women they would meet. It had nothing to do with Katerina, her dead husband or her ordeal. The dead tell no tales, eh?  That was tossed in there as a "hey, this is what happens to these women" Couple that with the emphasis on oddities of a few of those guys and the director has left you with the idea she wants you to have. That makes it more of a theatrical production than a news piece or journalism. IMHO

[Mark Davis]

Abuse didn't belong in the story unless there was an abuser included in the group. The story was about these customers of Mark's and the women they would meet.

Thank you, Faux Pas - this is something that must be pointed out.  My wife is fiercely protective of the women who participate in our program.  The men are screened by me and then have to pass my wife's Skype call test.  The fact that a trained Ukrainian personal assistant/translator is a constant presence in all of the dates provides a level of comfort for the men and women.  We don't have problem situations in our format - nor are any of the marriages we've helped introduce experienced anything similar.  We have intentionally created an open community for the women to stay in touch with other Ukrainian women and support each other as we do for the men.  That piece Jodie inserted was completely inappropriate to the be included in the same program with what we do - even it if does happen outside of what we do.

[Patagonie]

All excellent points and I agree with most of it except the bolded sentence. The subject of abuse wasn't raised correctly. The way and manner it was raised was an indictment for all East/West relationships. There was an inference that abuse was a given, it isn't. Abuse didn't belong in the story unless there was an abuser included in the group. The story was about these customers of Mark's and the women they would meet. It had nothing to do with Katerina, her dead husband or her ordeal. The dead tell no tales, eh?  That was tossed in there as a "hey, this is what happens to these women" Couple that with the emphasis on oddities of a few of those guys and the director has left you with the idea she wants you to have. That makes it more of a theatrical production than a news piece or journalism. IMHO

As FP
I strongly disagree with the interview of Katerina, and even more of th US woman involved in defending others women about this case.

1/ The men abused because of the MOB business (physically, emotionnaly and financially)  had been not even mentionned.
2/ It had not been pintpointed and highlighted that ,  for their own benefit,  FSU women in USA has a  lower in high proportion chances to be abused  by relocating. It is again and again easier to point at  the "freaks and perverts" which therefore  enlarged automatically, by the global suspicion, to the whole academy of western (US here) men.

The dishonest intellectual process is so to :
1/ ignore the damage done to the men
2/ Transform a high benefit for women to a diatribe against men

[Patagonie]

 

Violence against women is overwhelmingly committed by men. Period. This is especially relevant to the topic of this video as you look at deaths as a result of domestic violence.For USA, according to  the American Bar Association website (most lawyers are men btw), "In 2000, 1,247 women and 440 men were killed by an intimate partner. In recent years, an intimate partner killed approximately 33% of female murder victims and 4% of male murder victims." I do not have statistics, but would not be surprised if a good number that men "killed by intimate partners" were killed by men.And this is the country with a lot of protection for women. The situation in Russia is horrible. Every 4th woman suffers from domestic violence in Russia. Every year, 10,000 women are killed by husbands or partner (MEN) - in Russia. ONE WOMAN DIES FROM DOMESTIC VIOLENCE COMMITTED BY A MAN EVERY HOUR. Men are stronger and more aggressive by nature and they commit most violent crimes, against men women and children alike. Period.I watched the show and I think the issue of abuse is raised absolutely correctly, given the transaction nature of those "quest tours,' the fact that most of those women do not speak the language, have a support system or know the laws of their new countries, and to the fact that the MOB business attracts a disproportionate number of control freaks looking for a submissive traditional wife.

So we are now going to dislocate the soap you have drunk for few decades :

We have the same proportion here in France : around 130 women killed and 40 men.
Which is 10% of what you have in US.
 The population is not the same(320M/66M) but as a result it means that in France, barely, a woman has twice less chance to be killed than in USA from an intimate partner.

FIRST MESSAGE GIRLS : France is one of the most  safe country of the world about intimate murders. Message omitted, never mentionned.

Do you really think that only 40 mens die IN THE  FRAMEWORK OF THE CRIMINAL LAW, due to a criminal action of a woman ?

1/ --> Men killed by others men paid by women are not counted
2/ --> Men killed by others men  manipulated by women are not counted (co-author, accomplice, accomplice but not jailed)
3/ --> Men under false accusations (rape, touch, pedophilia, sexual harrassment and so on) who have ended their life  (this no a civil case, this is A CRIMINAL case). Do you know that we have 8000, HEIGHT GRANDS of guys here who ends their days ?

Do you really think that all these deads are just total freaks and psychos who are so happy to deliver 650 tons of meat to the society each year ?


if you add the 1 + 2 + 3 plus the 40 official deaths it is at least as many men deads as women deads because of the criminal action of women.

[Muzh]

Pat Mon Ami, have you seen this guy?

[Patagonie]

Thank for the video my friend.

No i never saw it and never hear about.
For what i got on internet it has been seen quite a lot abroad.
Proof is done that there the general fear to be a man is still bearable here.
But generally what happens in the US comes in Europe with one decade of delay.
I see things going on flame here and don't like it.

[fathertime]

.  That piece Jodie inserted was completely inappropriate to the be included in the same program with what we do - even it if does happen outside of what we do.

I agree with your statement.  They were doing a program following these guys on the tour...and then suddenly decide to dredge up one of the worst possible outcomes and make that a part of the show...they could have just as easily found a happily married couple with a couple of children, but that is where 'entertainment' and agenda come into to play....I guess what was going with the men and ladies on tour was looking a little too much like a...gulp...win-win!   


Fathertime!

[pitbull]

So we are now going to dislocate the soap you have drunk for few decades :

We have the same proportion here in France : around 130 women killed and 40 men.
Which is 10% of what you have in US.
 The population is not the same(320M/66M) but as a result it means that in France, barely, a woman has twice less chance to be killed than in USA from an intimate partner.

FIRST MESSAGE GIRLS : France is one of the most  safe country of the world about intimate murders. Message omitted, never mentionned.

Do you really think that only 40 mens die IN THE  FRAMEWORK OF THE CRIMINAL LAW, due to a criminal action of a woman ?

1/ --> Men killed by others men paid by women are not counted
2/ --> Men killed by others men  manipulated by women are not counted (co-author, accomplice, accomplice but not jailed)
3/ --> Men under false accusations (rape, touch, pedophilia, sexual harrassment and so on) who have ended their life  (this no a civil case, this is A CRIMINAL case). Do you know that we have 8000, HEIGHT GRANDS of guys here who ends their days ?

Do you really think that all these deads are just total freaks and psychos who are so happy to deliver 650 tons of meat to the society each year ?


if you add the 1 + 2 + 3 plus the 40 official deaths it is at least as many men deads as women deads because of the criminal action of women.

Pat, logic is apparently not your strong suit. If you switch men for women in your 3 examples of crime (especially if you look at women who kill themselves after being raped, harassed or falling prey to pedophile), add them to the 120 murder by male partner cases, I bet difference in numbers of "women deaths because of the criminal actions of men will be waaay more staggering than 130 vs. 40."
 
Do not try to manipulate numbers so apparently. There is no weaseling out of facts: MEN COMMIT MOST VIOLENT CRIMES AGAINST MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN. EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD. PERIOD.

[mendeleyev]

Like when the heavyset guy sat down, and they cut to a few ladies with nasty looks on their faces like they were disgusted.

To be frank, that is a quite normal reaction locally among younger women. Russian/Ukrainians view the overweight as those who are at the end of life, finished, and of no marketable value in a future relationship. Overweight is okay for babushka, because we all love our grandmothers, but it is far less acceptable for folk still in the dating game.

[mendeleyev]

Mark, I viewed and left comments--surprisingly positive for someone who generally dislikes tours (me).

As someone who produces media I found the abuse story to be balanced and appropriate--leaving it out might have given an impression that the piece was at least in part an infomercial for your company. She ended that segment by showing a new husband and children, so all worked out in the end. She, or her editors, could have left that on the editing floor and it would have at that point been a different slant on the story. Jodie did her job and was a good reporter in that instance.

[Slumba]

Patagonie is closer to the truth, than his critics, on the issue of domestic violence.

This woman, who originated the very concept of a family shelter, was all but burned at the stake as a heretic, because she pointed out the truth, that went against the Communist/Feminist (yes I used those words, and do not use them lightly) narrative.

And what was that truth? 

That women are often addicted to the violence, or they themselves are violent to the husband.  And sometimes, the husband is not violent - but the woman is.

"of the first hundred women who came into my refuge, sixty percent were as violent as the men they left. Or, they were violent and the men weren’t."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey

A transcript of a recent interview, is after the Youtube video on this page:

http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/domestic-violence-industry/refuting-40-years-of-lies-about-violence/

[fathertime]

To be frank, that is a quite normal reaction locally among younger women. Russian/Ukrainians view the overweight as those who are at the end of life, finished, and of no marketable value in a future relationship. Overweight is okay for babushka, because we all love our grandmothers, but it is far less acceptable for folk still in the dating game.

th


I'm sure are right and I probably should have provided a better example of unfair editing.   That said, if I recall right, the narrator was stating something like 'these ladies are looking for prince charming' CUT: fat man awkwardly sitting down: CUT: attractive ladies with disgusted looks.....the editing sure didn't do that poor guy any favors..all that was missing with some background circus music or a maybe a cowbell...he was turned into a joke


Fathertime!

[AC]

th


I'm sure are right and I probably should have provided a better example of unfair editing.   That said, if I recall right, the narrator was stating something like 'these ladies are looking for prince charming' CUT: fat man awkwardly sitting down: CUT: attractive ladies with disgusted looks.....the editing sure didn't do that poor guy any favors..all that was missing with some background circus music or a maybe a cowbell...he was turned into a joke


Fathertime!

Maybe I'm wrong but I suspect that if some of them found out he was rich they suddenly might have been far more receptive of him.