"Why don't you just date an American woman?"

[BC]

I'd rather die than dating Paris Hilton!!!!

I think she's sweet.. but I can't afford her..  even for one date.

I did like her bed time trysts.. is that porn?

[CDW]

I think she's sweet.. but I can't afford her..  even for one date.

I did like her bed time trysts.. is that porn?

I'd rather have lunch with Mira Sorvino or Claire Forlani for $10,000 than a FREE lunch with Paris Hilton 

[newjason]

In regard to materialism of FSW women, a few years ago, I would agree that FSUW might be more materialistic. Now, i tend to think that they are NOT any more materialistic than their western counterparts. FSUW may appear materialistic because many of them have their basic needs unsatisfied .  In other words, material things have a tremendous importance only when you cannot afford them to your full satisfaction. For example, let's look at me. when i lived in Russia, material things were important to me, not so now. I do not really care if i live in 150,000$ house or 500,000$ house. I do not really care if i drive this car or another. I am entirely focused on satisfying my need of self realization and personal growth. The same will be true about most Russian people, i believe.  Once they will feel confident that their basic needs are securely satisfied, they will display similar attitude to the material that their western counterparts have.   

But now by definition you have become an AW   

[chivo]

You are probably saying this as a Russian man who knew what kind of women to avoid in the first place.  I can tell you 1000% that Russian and Ukrainian women will try to bilk a Western man out of every penny he has in an effort to get expensive dinners, fur coats, jewellry, etc.  They not only have no shame about it, they are brazen.

Not sure about your experience, but my experience is completely different. Yes, there are women who do this, but last time I checked it had nothing to do with any particular nationality.
 
Again, my experience with RW couldn't be any different than the way you portray it. And I'm positive I know way more of them than you.
 
Yes, I have met the kind of Russian woman you refer to, but I have also met this kind of woman who was American, Latin, Japanese, etc. The RW that I have met who were like this fall way in to the minority.

American women are certainly not as slender or attractive as Russian women, but if you bought her one tiny trinket in six months she would be very happy.  The Russian woman would not!!

More BS.
 
I get the feeling you've met up with some who were this way. Nothing more.
 

You are completely missing the point.  We save for the future so that we have money for our childrens education (which yes, is much better--no matter that you have rockets up in the cosmos--we have the top Universities in the world), for unexpected medical emergencies, and for other unexpected expenses.  My experience with Russian women--they will do everything they can to manipulate you to buy them some unneccesary clothing, shoes, etc (when the room and closet is already overflowing with the stuff!!).
Materialistic!!!

More and more Russians are making more money and saving their money. As this country moves into the future, changes in attitude happened at a very fast pace. It is an emerging country, least you forget. They now see a light at the end of the tunnel.
 
They also have a way of finding the money for emergencies should they happen, without begging for it from strangers.
 
Maybe you need to change your "old school" thinking.

[chivo]

In regard to materialism of FSW women, a few years ago, I would agree that FSUW might be more materialistic. Now, i tend to think that they are NOT any more materialistic than their western counterparts. FSUW may appear materialistic because many of them have their basic needs unsatisfied .  In other words, material things have a tremendous importance only when you cannot afford them to your full satisfaction. For example, let's look at me. when i lived in Russia, material things were important to me, not so now. I do not really care if i live in 150,000$ house or 500,000$ house. I do not really care if i drive this car or another. I am entirely focused on satisfying my need of self realization and personal growth. The same will be true about most Russian people, i believe.  Once they will feel confident that their basic needs are securely satisfied, they will display similar attitude to the material that their western counterparts have.   

I agree with this 100%. I mentioned this many moons ago and used my "hungry tiger theory" as an analogy. Basically, a well fed tiger sure isn't they same as one who hasn't eaten for some time.
 
To put it another way, if you run 5 miles, or play basketball for a couple of hours without water and I sit around and hydrate myself during this time, who do you think will be thirstier?
 
For anyone to make comparisons, then let's at least do it apples to apples.
 
I have mentioned over time (and many of you SHOULD know this) that this part of the world is 'emerging'. Why this very obvious fact doesn't register with the majority of posters on this forum when making comparisons is, well, interesting, to say the least.
 
Again, as if many of you need to be inform of this, free market economy has only been around the FSU for 22 years. If you take into consideration that the first 10 were a complete disaster, then you can see real time free market economy is even less.
 
FSU people have only been able to have the things for a very short time, things that most of the western world has had since they were babies. As hard as it has become for some of you to understand, and many whom you would think should know, give the people in this neck of the woods some time to digest the water that they only begun to drink after running for so long without.

[Slumba]

You are probably saying this as a Russian man who knew what kind of women to avoid in the first place.  I can tell you 1000% that Russian and Ukrainian women will try to bilk a Western man out of every penny he has in an effort to get expensive dinners, fur coats, jewellry, etc.  They not only have no shame about it, they are brazen.

Is the profile info under your avatar accurate, that you have never traveled to FSU?

[newjason]

I agree with this 100%. I mentioned this many moons ago and used my "hungry tiger theory" as an analogy. Basically, a well fed tiger sure isn't they same as one who hasn't eaten for some time.
 
To put it another way, if you run 5 miles, or play basketball for a couple of hours without water and I sit around and hydrate myself during this time, who do you think will be thirstier?
 
For anyone to make comparisons, then let's at least do it apples to apples.
 
I have mentioned over time (and many of you SHOULD know this) that this part of the world is 'emerging'. Why this very obvious fact doesn't register with the majority of posters on this forum when making comparisons is, well, interesting, to say the least.
 
Again, as if many of you need to be inform of this, free market economy has only been around the FSU for 22 years. If you take into consideration that the first 10 were a complete disaster, then you can see real time free market economy is even less.
 
FSU people have only been able to have the things for a very short time, things that most of the western world has had since they were babies. As hard as it has become for some of you to understand, and many whom you would think should know, give the people in this neck of the woods some time to digest the water that they only begun to drink after running for so long without.

Chivo
While i completely agree,
What you are asking for is to wait for one apple to be come ripe while the other is already ripe, so to speak. While that may be the most fair way of comparison, it is not the way things are today for the most part.
 Let's just say, that given the same environment, women are women, no matter where they may be from.

[erikmagenta]

Is the profile info under your avatar accurate, that you have never traveled to FSU?

It's not correct--I have been there.  I will update it.

[erikmagenta]

Not sure about your experience, but my experience is completely different. Yes, there are women who do this, but last time I checked it had nothing to do with any particular nationality.
 
Again, my experience with RW couldn't be any different than the way you portray it. And I'm positive I know way more of them than you.
 
Yes, I have met the kind of Russian woman you refer to, but I have also met this kind of woman who was American, Latin, Japanese, etc. The RW that I have met who were like this fall way in to the minority.

The astute reader would notice that I was probably referencing the actions and activity of pro daters who work for a MOB agency.  The astute reader would also notice that I mentioned to Belvis that as a Russian who speaks the language and knows the culture, he knows which type of women to avoid entirely.  If you live and work in Russia, which I suspect--then you also know which type of women to avoid.

And yet:

1.  The national sport of Ukraine, besides Soccer, seems to be in scamming Western men out of thousands of dollars each.  No doubt it is a huge part of their economy.  Quite frankly I prefer the morals of a prostitute, who gives a man exactly what he pays for--than to the morals of pro daters who pretend to be interested in a Western man, whilst the whole time her and the translator and the driver have a carefully planned routine in place in how to bilk the poor durak out of maximum funds.  They don't even care for one second that the poor fool paid thousands just to get there, and gave up his vacation period (his only vacation period in an entire year) to get there.  They are ruthless and cut-throat in their determination to part him from at least a thousand dollars or more on expensive gifts, overpriced rooms and overpriced taxis.

Plenty of guys here say so sad, too bad.  I say that the Ukrainian and Russian mentality that corruption is good, is extremely short sighted.  The next time there is another economic collapse, ala 2008--they will have their hands out yet again for loans from the IMF.

2.  I know several Russian ladies here in Vegas.  One of them, although she identifies as Russian, grew up in Germany.  In her opinion the Russian girls she knows here are far more materialistic and fake than their American counterparts.  This concurs with my own observations and experience--although I am an optimist and believe that I or others might find a true gem--I am not holding my breath.

More BS.
 
I get the feeling you've met up with some who were this way. Nothing more.

Not some--a lot.  I know several American women in dead end relationships--one who works for Hooters.  She has been with the same loser for over two years, and he has yet to buy her a gift which would show her he cares about her.  She finally bought a trinket of a ring for herself--since this bum won't do it.  Yet this is pretty typical of American women.  They are far more sentimental and willing to continue to give a guy a chance--long after he deserves it.

Again, the astute reader might ask me questions about my opinions.  I really think that American guys could learn a lot from Russian guys--that is the importance of being a gentleman and showing a lady you are with that you care about her.

I also think that American women could learn tons from Russian women.  For examply how to dress nicely, do their hair and make-up nicely, etc.

[calmissile]

Quote from erikmagenta

Again, the astute reader might ask me questions about my opinions.  I really think that American guys could learn a lot from Russian guys--that is the importance of being a gentleman and showing a lady you are with that you care about her.

Now that is an interesting opinion and/or observation since it is contrary to nearly all the posts on the forum, the information in several E-Books on the subject, as well as what I am told in emails from FSU women.

In case you have not read about it,  the reasons for so many FSU women immigrating to other countries is because they cannot find what you are suggesting in FSUM.  You want us to follow their examples?

How much time did you spend in FSU countries?

[erikmagenta]

Quote from erikmagenta

Again, the astute reader might ask me questions about my opinions.  I really think that American guys could learn a lot from Russian guys--that is the importance of being a gentleman and showing a lady you are with that you care about her.

Now that is an interesting opinion and/or observation since it is contrary to nearly all the posts on the forum, the information in several E-Books on the subject, as well as what I am told in emails from FSU women.

In case you have not read about it,  the reasons for so many FSU women immigrating to other countries is because they cannot find what you are suggesting in FSUM.  You want us to follow their examples?

How much time did you spend in FSU countries?

I have a Russian male friend who I have known now for over two years.  He lives in Ukraine.  He is a good husband and provider for his wife.  He does the traditional things which I think that Russian women like and even expect.  You have the wrong opinion if you think that every Russian or Ukrainian woman wants to get out and marry a Westerner!!

[calmissile]

I have no argument that there are good Ukrainian men, in fact I have several friends that fit that category.  Your broad statement however, led me to believe that you were referring to single FSUM.  Those are not examples that I would suggest a WM follow.  There are many posts and other resources that imply that a large percentage of single FSUM woo a lady long enough to get into her panties and then discard her when they tire of her.

In addition,  the very large number of young FSUW that are divorced with children to be raised alone is some indication that the married FSUM are not sterling examples of what you have in mind.  The fact that so many of them cannot find a "good man" is also an indication that the character of many of these men is questionable.

I am happy for your married friend in Ukriane.

How much time did you spend there and in what countries?

[Boethius]

1.  The national sport of Ukraine, besides Soccer, seems to be in scamming Western men out of thousands of dollars each.  No doubt it is a huge part of their economy.  Quite frankly I prefer the morals of a prostitute, who gives a man exactly what he pays for--than to the morals of pro daters who pretend to be interested in a Western man, whilst the whole time her and the translator and the driver have a carefully planned routine in place in how to bilk the poor durak out of maximum funds.  They don't even care for one second that the poor fool paid thousands just to get there, and gave up his vacation period (his only vacation period in an entire year) to get there.  They are ruthless and cut-throat in their determination to part him from at least a thousand dollars or more on expensive gifts, overpriced rooms and overpriced taxis.

Plenty of guys here say so sad, too bad.  I say that the Ukrainian and Russian mentality that corruption is good, is extremely short sighted.  The next time there is another economic collapse, ala 2008--they will have their hands out yet again for loans from the IMF.

The number of Ukrainians who meet foreigners for romance is miniscule.  But if you had foreigners showing up and often behaving like pigs in your country, or saying what a s__thole the country is, you wouldn't have much sympathy for them being ripped off either.


There is no Ukrainian or Russian mentality that corruption is good.  It just is what it is, and most Ukrainians and Russians know they can't change it.  At least, not without another revolution.

[Belvis]

  I say that the Ukrainian and Russian mentality that corruption is good, is extremely short sighted.  The next time there is another economic collapse, ala 2008--they will have their hands out yet again for loans from the IMF.

As far as I know Russia is considering to give a loan to IMF, and was helping other countries with loans in 2008.
A few words about corruption:
The issue is rather complicated if go into details. Of course nobody likes it, but I would like to note the main difference between USA and Russia concerning corruption. The difference is  the attitude to the problem. Russians admit corruption is likely the main evil they suffer from. It is the necessary step to fight against it.
In USA I observe the same kind of problem, when money  are redistributed through FED and government policy from ordinary taxpayers to fat cats. Perhaps the movement Occupy Wall Street is a first sign of  recognition of the problem.

[erikmagenta]

As far as I know Russia is considering to give a loan to IMF, and was helping other countries with loans in 2008.
A few words about corruption:
The issue is rather complicated if go into details. Of course nobody likes it, but I would like to note the main difference between USA and Russia concerning corruption. The difference is  the attitude to the problem. Russians admit corruption is likely the main evil they suffer from. It is the necessary step to fight against it.
In USA I observe the same kind of problem, when money  are redistributed through FED and government policy from ordinary taxpayers to fat cats. Perhaps the movement Occupy Wall Street is a first sign of  recognition of the problem.

You must believe Obama and other socialists if you believe what you wrote above.  Capitalism and Wall Street creates jobs--government does their best to destroy the economic climate which allow business to thrive.

If you are referring to the Wall Street bailout I agree with you that it was wrong--even criminal.  Unfortunately the alternative was total economic collapse--worse than the Great Depression.

This may appear to be a contradiction, but keep in mind that most Wall Street firms are not breaking the law--and do in fact help to raise money to help new companies and their products to thrive, which helps middle class people who work in those factories making those products.

[Belvis]

If you are referring to the Wall Street bailout I agree with you that it was wrong--even criminal.  Unfortunately the alternative was total economic collapse--worse than the Great Depression.

Yes, the threat of the total collapse is a good argument to get money out of FED. That's the way how big money are being made at Wall Street.

This may appear to be a contradiction, but keep in mind that most Wall Street firms are not breaking the law--and do in fact help to raise money to help new companies and their products to thrive, which helps middle class people who work in those factories making those products.

Corruption is all about making money without breaking laws. O.K., may be you're right and middle class people will increase their disposable income soon.

[Slumba]

You must believe Obama and other socialists if you believe what you wrote above.  Capitalism and Wall Street creates jobs--government does their best to destroy the economic climate which allow business to thrive.

If you are referring to the Wall Street bailout I agree with you that it was wrong--even criminal.  Unfortunately the alternative was total economic collapse--worse than the Great Depression.

This may appear to be a contradiction, but keep in mind that most Wall Street firms are not breaking the law--and do in fact help to raise money to help new companies and their products to thrive, which helps middle class people who work in those factories making those products.

Probably not the right thread to discuss such an issue... I will only say it is laughable that you think the current situation on Wall Street in any way, intersects with capitalism. 

How does the Federal Reserve, and the US Govt,  intervening time and again to prop up the banks (when some are insolvent and should simply fail), represent free market ideas?

[CDW]

Ukrainian/Russian women (or anyone) who scam Western men for thousands $$$  by pretending to be interested in them are WORSE than the real prostitutes!!!   They should be given bad names than these prostitutes who are 'honest' to them

[missAmeno]

Ukrainian/Russian women (or anyone) who scam Western men for thousands $$$  by pretending to be interested in them are WORSE than the real prostitutes!!!   They should be given bad names than these prostitutes who are 'honest' to them

And what the name we should give to Western men  who are exploiting or trying to exploit Ukrainian/Russian women?

[Muzh]

You must believe Obama and other socialists if you believe what you wrote above.  Capitalism and Wall Street creates jobs--government does their best to destroy the economic climate which allow business to thrive.

If you are referring to the Wall Street bailout I agree with you that it was wrong--even criminal.  Unfortunately the alternative was total economic collapse--worse than the Great Depression.

This may appear to be a contradiction, but keep in mind that most Wall Street firms are not breaking the law--and do in fact help to raise money to help new companies and their products to thrive, which helps middle class people who work in those factories making those products.

Boy, you are full of bullshevism.
 
Compare Obama's economic policies to Reagan's policies and you'll find they are almost the same. Maybe you would like something a little bit more fascist? Or is it that you don't like the "negro?"
 
And the other bullshevism about RW, who and what made you an expert? Are you an anthropologist? Have you done some research? If not, I suggest don't be so definite about your statements.

[erikmagenta]

And what the name we should give to Western men  who are exploiting or trying to exploit Ukrainian/Russian women?

Promoter of small town women's virtues??  (Tim??)

[Jumper]

I know several Russian ladies here in Vegas.  One of them, although she identifies as Russian, grew up in Germany.  In her opinion the Russian girls she knows here are far more materialistic and fake than their American counterparts.  This concurs with my own observations and experience--although I am an optimist and believe that I or others might find a true gem--I am not holding my breath.

Russian ladies in Vegas just don't seem reflective to me of FSU women in general,and i have more than a few trips, friends and in laws there.

This is similar to  having a Russian observe a few SoCal *Valley girls*, and posting that in their and their friends observations,  most american women are mostly fake, shallow, conceited , materialistic, airheads.
You might find a true gem in america , but don't hold your breath.



In my experience there is a subset of women like you describe,  about pro daters.
but its a very small subset.The only reason it seems larger is the way and means most western men contact FSU women,it changes on average * who* they meet , in a very negative way (generally)

The average FSU women isn't even thinking about meeting a foreign man.She is far too involved in her regular life and routine, she also has few of the materialistic qualities you describe.Is likely quite social and interested in her friends, family , and is somewhat both practical/pragmatic yet romantic all at once.Generalities are tough, but I just don't see a huge difference in materialistic qualities between cultures.(men and women)

now if you would term it status instead? I would agree more are worried about status.
(again a silly generality, as you'll date an individual)

Most though I would say are just not very different from their western sisters..
As example ,you wouldn't be able to tell my wife was FSU if it wasn't for the accent.
Her general mindset,  her political views , her ethics/ morals, her general interests and core values, even her clothing tastes, would likely have you guess older southern conservative American woman. You'd likely marvel how someone young and upbeat is trapped in a *old soul*

Many of her friends are quite similar,
others might fit your description better..but they are minority.

[alyosha]

I did and ended up divorced.
I did fly to meet a woman in Indiana in 2003.  That didn't work out.
  In addition certain people throw women at me, but they aren't genuine. They are “swallows.” It's a subject I could talk about but probably best only when I meet people in Russia.
I did talk to my next door neighbor, but I think she may just be another "swallow."
I'm not interested in dating anyone at first. I want to become part of a face to face social group first.
The best way to explain is I want to become part of a social community in Russia.
That way I can judge if people are genuine.  As I said before, women are thrown at me like "swallows". I can't explain more here.
In Russia I would like to talk to women who are about 34 or 54 years old. 
I don't want to move permanently to Russia as I don't really speak Russian.  All I know are a few words of Czech.  My grandmother was Czech.
I am willing to learn more Russian and know that that would be best.
I've learned a few Russian words that are similar to English.  For instance you have a word that sounds like scurry in English.  In English scurry means hurry, and is usually said to a child. Your word sounds like SKORRY.
I have my grandparents farm in Kansas, and may return there.
Our family farm is about 65 kilometers east of Dodge City Kansas.  It is about 65 hectors in area.  This region is what in Russia you would call the Steppe.  There are few trees except where they are planted.  There are also tress next to the river.
There are deer in the trees and a little animal the size of a terrier we call a raccoon.
There are also small wolf like animals we call coyotes.  Coyotes might weigh 20 kilos.
Once a deer stalked me on the rail road bed.  They will follow a man if they see him first.
The deer thinks better to keep the man in sight while the deer keeps under cover, rather than lose track of him and cross paths later and be surprised.
The deer had been eating wild plums off the bushes when he saw me.  We call them sand hill plumbs and they make excellent jelly.
The land is mostly flat.  That is like Western Russian I understand.  There are hills next to the River.
Not far to the west there is an old battle field.  Some European men were ambushed by native Indians among the small hills near the river.  The legend is an Indian princes had some of the wounded men cared for.  This was in 1848 and is known as The Battle of Coon Creek.  Coon is a short version of raccoon.
My father said some of your Russian trees looked like our cotton wood trees.
The nearest large city is Wichita. That is about 110 kilometers east. That is about a 90 minute trip by car. The population is about 500,000.
Father also understood your word (Babushka?) It sounded to him like the word he used to call his Czech grandmother.
My Czech relatives were expert carpenters and horticulturalist.  The Czech are said to be the best horticulturalist and wood workers in Europe.
If I married a Russian woman she might want to return to her homeland someday.
America may go through problems soon as Russia did in 1991.
The “center” here is advising everyone to store food.  It wouldn't be good to be skinny if the center is right.  They think hard times are coming here soon. I think they may be right.  I am storing extra food.
The winters are mild compared to Russia.  A family rented our farm house and was snowed in one winter for three weeks, but that is very rare.  The well water is about 12 degrees C, which gives you and idea what the average year round temperature is.
Like all villages the people are very friendly and seldom steal anything. 
I don't plan to leave America permanently. I want to be buried near my mothers village.  It is further east in Missouri.
I like dogs and will likely get a shepherd dog when I move back to my parents region.
I now live in Florida. I would probably like a woman who also liked animals.
(Prazem?) for reading my long talk.
Kaprune Skya(?)

[Daveman]

we really need a 'scratching head' icon...

[GQBlues]

we really need a 'scratching head' icon...

Something like this perhaps?

 

..or this..