Some questions

[smsmsmsm]

Hi all,

Wow! I am overwhelmed. I have to digest some of the thoughts that have been expressed here. I guess I would like to ask questions again. By the way, don't be annoyed by my questions. That is my job as a researcher.

First of all, I don't deny I am a feminist. However, there are many kinds of feminisms. It is dangerous to generalize feminism as a whole. I have read quite a bit of critiques about MOB issue. Yet, I am not particular satisfied about the oppressor/victim analysis. This implies that men who seek foreign wives are dominant or women who seek foreign husbands have no agency. I think the crosscultrual dating is more complex that that. Having said that, I do have some questions I have been thinking about. I hope my questions do not offend anyone. I am simply playing the devil's advocate here.

I. People have used MOB term and most of you would probably object to this particular term. What term would you use to describe this? International or cross border dating and marriage? Transnational dating and marriage? What term do you think best describe this?

II. Some critiques indicate that the interest in Asian women or Russian women is a form of fetishism. It is based on the steretypes and myths about Asian women and Russian women. I think the interest in Russian women is a recent phenomenon and is tied to the geopolitics in Eastern Europe. I would think that people here have different reasons to pursue Russian women. My question would be why russian women appeal to you particularly.

III. People have argued that the communication with Russian women is no diffferent from internet dating, such as e-harmony, match.com, etc. What are your thoughts on this? Is there a difference or is it similar?

Well, three questions for now. I am really interested in your thoughts. Thank you so much for replying to my post.

Ada

[KenC]

Hi all,

Wow! I am overwhelmed. I have to digest some of the thoughts that have been expressed here. I guess I would like to ask questions again. By the way, don't be annoyed by my questions. That is my job as a researcher.

First of all, I don't deny I am a feminist. However, there are many kinds of feminisms. It is dangerous to generalize feminism as a whole. I have read quite a bit of critiques about MOB issue. Yet, I am not particular satisfied about the oppressor/victim analysis. This implies that men who seek foreign wives are dominant or women who seek foreign husbands have no agency. I think the crosscultrual dating is more complex that that. Having said that, I do have some questions I have been thinking about. I hope my questions do not offend anyone. I am simply playing the devil's advocate here.

I. People have used MOB term and most of you would probably object to this particular term. What term would you use to describe this? International or cross border dating and marriage? Transnational dating and marriage? What term do you think best describe this?

It really is unfortunate that the term "mail order bride" has become the recognized term for RW seeking mates in foreign countries.  Not only is it derogatory but very misleading.  Most of the advice that experienced men here give is for the couples to take their time and to truly get to know each other prior to making any serious commitments.  The term "MOB" also attracts men that have it in their mind that social skills are not necessary in their pursuit of a foreign wife.  In the end, this process isn't anything similar to what the mind's eye conjures up when the term "mail order brides" is applied.  Most agencies call themselves "marrage" agencies.  Even that is a little misleading to my mind.  I would think the term "International dating site" would be the most accurate.

II. Some critiques indicate that the interest in Asian women or Russian women is a form of fetishism. It is based on the steretypes and myths about Asian women and Russian women. I think the interest in Russian women is a recent phenomenon and is tied to the geopolitics in Eastern Europe. I would think that people here have different reasons to pursue Russian women. My question would be why Russian women appeal to you particularly.

The "fetishism" might be able to be applied to men seeking Asian brides, but hardly to Russian.  There is no real "Russian" look.  Russia being the diverse country that it is has a large variety of physical traits from Norwegian,Mongol Slavic and even some Mediterranean.  I do think that the recent popularity of Russian women is tied to politics though.  The Russian women were never available to Americans a easily as recently.  In my personal case, I was intrigued by RW because I am of Russian decent.

III. People have argued that the communication with Russian women is no different from internet dating, such as e-harmony, match.com, etc. What are your thoughts on this? Is there a difference or is it similar?

Well, three questions for now. I am really interested in your thoughts. Thank you so much for replying to my post.

Ada

I think the sites are more similar than dissimilar.  A foreign girlfriend/fiancee is just a lot more complicated and inconvenient.
KenC

[Bruce]

1.  International dating or ID is the term I would use to describe American men and women developing romantic relationships with foreigners.  International dating may or may not lead to marriage.  If you are intent on focusing on what often culminates from ID then you may prefer the term IM, for International Marriages.

2.  "Some critiques indicate that the interest in Asian women or Russian women is a form of fetishism."  I would discount these critiques as they are almost definitely poorly informed individuals or those with a particular agenda.  Globally, I believe the best way to foster ties between the two former superpowers and arguably two greatest nations on earth is for Americans to marry Russians or vice-versa.  There should be no need for a cold war to ever occur again.  The best way to prevent that is through interaction.  If interaction leads to marriage I see that as a plus for our world.  Every person dates and marries for selfish reasons.  The commonality of the selfish reasons American men look for Russian women is that they believe they can date a women who is younger, prettier and just as intelligent and or well educated as the women they date / dated in America.  A majority of men like at least some of the cultural benefits and perspective the Russian woman brings to the American family once married.   

3.  Communication is communication the world around.  The ability to speak Russian and overcome cultural differences makes communication much more difficult.  This is in my opinion the greatest difficulty in International Dating.  Couples who do not communicate properly prior to marriage are most likely to have difficult marriages unless they can work out their communication problems.  Luckily, most Russian women are able to master English quickly.  Thus, men who take their time while dating are able to properly make the appropriately informed decision with their woman to pursue their relationship to the committed level of marriage.

[Bruce]

Ken C, too bad I posted on the other thread.  I'll cut and paste my comments on one below this one.

[Bruce]

1.  International dating or ID is the term I would use to describe American men and women developing romantic relationships with foreigners.  International dating may or may not lead to marriage.  If you are intent on focusing on what often culminates from ID then you may prefer the term IM, for International Marriages.

2.  "Some critiques indicate that the interest in Asian women or Russian women is a form of fetishism."  I would discount these critiques as they are almost definitely poorly informed individuals or those with a particular agenda.  Globally, I believe the best way to foster ties between the two former superpowers and arguably two greatest nations on earth is for Americans to marry Russians or vice-versa.  There should be no need for a cold war to ever occur again.  The best way to prevent that is through interaction.  If interaction leads to marriage I see that as a plus for our world.  Every person dates and marries for selfish reasons.  The commonality of the selfish reasons American men look for Russian women is that they believe they can date a women who is younger, prettier and just as intelligent and or well educated as the women they date / dated in America.  A majority of men like at least some of the cultural benefits and perspective the Russian woman brings to the American family once married.   

3.  Communication is communication the world around.  The ability to speak Russian and overcome cultural differences makes communication much more difficult.  This is in my opinion the greatest difficulty in International Dating.  Couples who do not communicate properly prior to marriage are most likely to have difficult marriages unless they can work out their communication problems.  Luckily, most Russian women are able to master English quickly.  Thus, men who take their time while dating are able to properly make the appropriately informed decision with their woman to pursue their relationship to the committed level of marriage.

 

[Turboguy]

Like Ken, I don't particularly like the MOB term.  The problem is no one has come up with a catchy enough term to stick.  I would probably prefer International Marriages or second choice, Foreign Brides.   MOB sounds too much like something you order from a catalog and yes, there are catalogs but the most popular models are always sold out.  

I wrote a few gals from South America and Asia before I found Russian women but once I found RW I never went back.  I think each of the three most common hunting grounds offer women who are very different and appeal to men with different priorities.  

I think some of the things that make RW stand out for guys is their much higher level of education and often a very high intelligence.   The social structure of the SU and FSU emphasised cultural things.   A higher emphasis was placed on things like opera and theater and less on "Animal House".   Women from the FSU just come off as having a lot more class.   Another thing that is an attraction is the concept of being a woman, coupled with the necessity of walking more and more fruits and veggies in their diet.  They just tend to look more like a woman and to not be overweight as often as AW.

I think too for many, the Russian women are closer to what we are used to and consider desirable in a woman.  Let's say they are a lot like the women many date here except prettier, built better, younger, more intelligent, classier, and better educated.  I don't think politics has anything to do with it.

I think communication is a lot different.   You are dealing with language problems, cultural differences, a very different upbringing and the difficulties of moving away from family and friends.  I think there is no comparison.

[Gator]

1.   International Dating.
2.   Some may read that Russian women are traditional and many men may seek that in a woman among other qualities (or use it to justify their chase of younger women).  To me it implies a hierarchical relationship which is not good.   Perhaps some men are controlling and need to go to a foreign country because no competent American woman would have them.  The problem is that a few days with a Russian woman will reveal that they are sweet on the outside but strong inside – they are not submissive women.  It has been bred out of them akin to Darwinism.

Geopolitics is part of it if that term includes the collapse of the Soviet system and the subsequent turmoil and economic hardship.  Women consider leaving their country for a better life – which may be defined by financial security, a reliable child-loving husband, opportunity, etc.  One woman told me candidly that she did not want my money but wanted to do something with her life and make her own money. 
3.   Communication is not the same.  It is taxing and difficult because there is less face time, languages are remarkably different, and cultural differences compound everything.  Misunderstandings are common, yet that necessitates the two people somehow resolve their conflicts productively, which of course centers on communication.

Ada,

I would appreciate your choosing one thread and confining discussion for now to it.  Is this it?  The flitting from one new thread to another makes me think your study techniques would lack discipline and rigor.  But what do I know – having been trained in the natural, physical and mathematical sciences rather than social sciences? 

[TexasBoar]

Given that I'm an utter noob still . . . still, here are my thoughts:

I. What term would you use to describe this?

International dating/marriage works fine, I think, and is bias-neutral.


II. Some critiques . . .  a form of fetishism . . . based on the stereotypes . . .

Aside from, in general, being attracted to Slavic features, my primary attraction at this point is that I have repeatedly seen FSU women characterized here as strong-willed and stubborn.  I have a big personality, and it takes a strong woman to put up with me . . . and hold her own.

III. difference  . . . similar?

Based on what I've read here, the primary difference is expense. 

~Boar

[Kuna]

I. People have used MOB term and most of you would probably object to this particular term. What term would you use to describe this? International or cross border dating and marriage? Transnational dating and marriage? What term do you think best describe this?

If we must label it anything I think "International Dating" is closest to reality without being offensive to a girl by calling her a mail-order bride. 

Who came up with that term anyway? 

We used to label girls at home who were "expressing their sexual freedom" though it has become unacceptable to do so.  I hope one day it'll be unacceptable to call someone a MOB.

II. Some critiques indicate that the interest in Asian women or Russian women is a form of fetishism. It is based on the stereotypes and myths about Asian women and Russian women. I think the interest in Russian women is a recent phenomenon and is tied to the geopolitics in Eastern Europe. I would think that people here have different reasons to pursue Russian women. My question would be why russian women appeal to you particularly.

Ukrainian women don't appeal to me more than any other girl that is attractive, single, intelligent and not afraid to speak her mind.  I grew up in a Ukrainian/German household and I generally feel more comfortable around people that speak their mind (even if it means their a bit "cantankerous" at times).  If I meet a girl in Ukr who is like that, I'll be very happy.

Call me strange but I LIKE someone who's a bit demanding, has expectations, isn't afraid to say what she wants, but at the same time will openly express her affection for family, children in the future and other core values that I was raised to appreciate.

There's no stereotype though, so finding a girl who I share compatibility with might take time, but I am prepared to take my time if needed.

I haven't found "it" in Australia, though I've dated some girls that could have been the future Mrs Kuna.  Feeling free to date a Ukrainian girl is no different than the freedom I feel at home, or the freedom I exercise while away on business.

I won't lie though, I'm hoping to find the values I want in a slightly more attractive "package" than I would find at home.  I've dated "hot" girls and young girls at home, but they haven't had the values I'm looking for.  The ones that might have the values have been happily married and therefore not available.

III. People have argued that the communication with Russian women is no different from internet dating, such as e-harmony, match.com, etc. What are your thoughts on this? Is there a difference or is it similar?

Yes, and no. 

What I would say is that it's no different than dating any girl who has English as a second or third language.  Language does make a difference,  but I've had relationships at home with girls from almost identical backgrounds to mine, yet we were still unable to communicate effectively.

What I've found during my "journey" is that I couldn't communicate with some girls, but I don't think it was a language problem.  We just had nothing in common. (Keep in mind I've chosen only to contact girls with good English skills).

Some were "role-playing" and therefore the communication was of low value. 

I've have found excellent synergy with a few girls though, and I'd say that to-date I'm sharing better (more honest, detailed, fun, intelligent, complex) communication with them than I've found with the majority of girls I've dated at home.



Ada,  I think the one thing I've learnt through this board, and through the process I'm going through is that generalisations are never accurate.

We're all individuals.  Sure some people will label the girls or the relationships as if they're all the same, but that isn't the reality as far as I'm concerned.

Cheers!

Kuna

[Globetrotter]

Ada,

1) MOB probably comes from the 1800's when men would bring brides from the East to the West, as in "Western the Wagons" with William Holden, but is hardly the same today.  The "correct term"...
whatever.

2) the appeal:  they are caucasian, and lots of them, so call the FSU target rich, or, the greatest singles bar in the world, but it costs $2G's to walk in the door.  (This is the area most like you would be interested in, because there are so many girls, age differences abound, and the couples agendas differ so widely.  Call some of the men social misfits and some of the girls card sharks.  Similar to murders in the press...you know, if it bleeds, it leads!)  This, however, I see no differently than if I were dating a girl here...if she lived on North Lake Shore Drive or Archer Ave., I can find the exact same differences here, and given that I look for the same women there as I do here, for me they are the same.  I think the divorce rates are the same there as here also, and the necessity there as here is to choose wisely.  Geopolitical?  Probably, as there was so little known about FSU girls till 1991 when Michael Sergaev Gorbachev opened the doors.

3) Communication differences: as Ken said, inconvenience, money, and I'll add time, assuming one speaks the other's language.

PS: OK, no Ditka's...but I was still going to pop for lunch! 

[jb]

I don't especially like the term "Mail Order Brides", however I use it for the sake of expediency, simply because everyone here knows what I'm talking about.  I don't use the words outside these boards. 

or, the greatest singles bar in the world, but it costs $2G's to walk in the door.

 
yup, the cover charge at this bar is a little steep.  You can multiply that 2G's by however many times it takes to get the job done right, if it takes several more trips, well,,, a man can get poor in a hurry at that rate.

however, I see no differently than if I were dating a girl here...

Done right, you are probably correct.  However the usual and normal is vastly different, I doubt you've ever paid a third party $25-50 for a simple introduction when dating local girls, nor did you probably need to drag along a third wheel interpreter @ $8-10 per hour on a local date.

I can't comment on the overall Russian divorce rate, I've heard speculation that it's around 50%.  I do know that a divorced woman with a young child in Russia has about as much chance of getting a shot at a successful second marriage as the snowball has of lasting very long in hell.  Hence the appeal of the western man.  Western men, especially American men, seem to be more accepting of the roll of step-fatherhood than Russian men are.

The comment here that got my attention was: "they are caucasian, and lots of them".  That's very true.  For a lot of men going down this road we are from parts of the country where there are not a lot of decent quality available white women.  I live near the Mexican border, my town is at least 75% hispanic, all the caucasian women are already married, Mexican women do not hold much appeal to me.  "As Willie Sutton, the bank robber said when asked why he robbed banks, 'because that's where the money is'."   That's why a lot of men are going to the FSU, because that's where the women are.

[Globetrotter]

JB, thanks.  The most I ever paid was $10, and not very often.  Maybe I'm different, but the girls in their early/mid 40's are incredible from every standpoint, and they seem to be overlooked by so many.  Why, I don't know.  Age "appropriateness" is important to me as those are they I have most in common with...but that's only me and my thinking.  Also, there is more of a chance with that age range for more truth and honesty, and the experiences they bring with them.  I have an opportunity to date a nurse here (same age) who is beautiful, never married, a very wealthy girl who does live on North Lake Shore Drive, and she has indicated she "is already connected to me" whatever that means.  I decline as she is the country club type, in counseling over past relationships, narcissistic, etc.  I am brutal when it comes to "interviewing" not outwardly, but I listen to my minds eye, and decide...in her case, NO.  You just can't "train up" someone else, as what you see is what you get.  So, my RW squeeze is such a breath of fresh air as opposed to what's available to me here, I know I'm in the right place.  Even though she's a doc, that's a detriment to me as it's not like she can hit the ground running making 250K...maybe in 6 years, maybe not.

We discussed everything trying to cover all contingencies should we pull the trigger, and I asked what she would do if she wasn't working.  She said she would need to study English and know it as well as me, study medical journals, watch Russian TV, etc.  I said what if you get homesick?  She has 2 friends married to Yanks, one out east, one in the southwest, and said when that happened, they went home for 2-4 weeks to see family and friends.  I said I could afford that also.  She put her palms up in the air and said, "So".

I have an advantage as she can come and go here as often as she likes, (or I will pay for) has already made friends here and adores my family.  She is quite well off by FSU standards, and doesn't need me, but wants me, and that's a good place to be.  Well, more than I wanted to say, but so be it.

PS: When the Irish arsonist was asked by the police why he burned down the cathedral, he answered, "That's where the Cardinal was"!

 

[jb]

Maybe I'm different, but the girls in their early/mid 40's are incredible from every standpoint, and they seem to be overlooked by so many.

Yeah, you are different,,, but I also married a woman in her 40's, so I can relate.

My wife will never earn $250K, as a college math/physics teacher in south Texas she'll maybe earn $45-50K, but I couldn't be happier with her, or more proud of her achievements.

She has 2 friends married to Yanks, one out east, one in the southwest, and said when that happened, they went home for 2-4 weeks to see family and friends.  I said I could afford that also.  She put her palms up in the air and said, "So".

After she's been here a year or two I think you'd be amazed at how little she wants to go back home.  My wife is currently back in Russia to stay with her ailing mother, she complains to me everyday that she wants to come "home".  They miss the motherland when they first leave, gripe and complain about everything American, nothing is as good as it was in Russia, but after living here a couple of years they go back and see it for what it really is.  The home sickness phase is a very temporary thing.  Trust me, they get over it quickly.

Off hand I'd say you need to put on your charm suit and get things finalized.  You,,, and her, are not getting any younger.

[BillyB]

I. People have used MOB term and most of you would probably object to this particular term. What term would you use to describe this? International or cross border dating and marriage? Transnational dating and marriage? What term do you think best describe this?

II. Some critiques indicate that the interest in Asian women or Russian women is a form of fetishism. It is based on the steretypes and myths about Asian women and Russian women. I think the interest in Russian women is a recent phenomenon and is tied to the geopolitics in Eastern Europe. I would think that people here have different reasons to pursue Russian women. My question would be why russian women appeal to you particularly.

III. People have argued that the communication with Russian women is no different from internet dating, such as e-harmony, match.com, etc. What are your thoughts on this? Is there a difference or is it similar?

I) I don't like the "MOB" term because it is offensive to the ladies and men it refers to. In modern times, a man can't simply order a woman and have her delivered. An American man must go and visit this woman and if they decide the woman should come to America on a fiancee visa, they must go through a process of proving to the American government there is a relationship by submitting photos, letters, airline tickets etc.... It's actually easier to get hooked up with a woman in the States as long as the man is desirable to women at all. Though the media uses the term MOB frequently, along with a few politicians, when speaking to the general public, they probably won't say "MOB" in front of a foreign woman who married an American man. That's because they know it's offensive to the persons they're referring to though not offensive to the general public.

II) I like Slavic looking women. I can afford to be choosy and look overseas. It's also sort of a unique adventure when travelling behind the old Iron Curtain. There's no doubt because of the economic situation in Eastern Europe, women over there are more open to marrying a foreigner from a more prosperous nation. It's human nature to want a better life but it's important to evaluate the motives and methods of each individual on how they want to achieve a better life. Some men's wives contribute to the family's finances and know how to save a buck more than her husband, other women are lazy leeches that want to spend money with no regard to how hard her man had to earn it.

Ada, I noticed you mentioned you don't deny being a feminist. One reason many men have started looking overseas is because the women they're searching for are more feminine, not feminist. Personally, I like when a woman looks and act like a woman. I like it when she's confident that she enjoys her role as a woman and lets a man perform his role without trying to out perform him. I like when a woman values me as a man instead of competing against me or trying to assume my role.

III) I haven't participated on the local internet dating scene but I've heard men who have and many say it's a joke. E-harmony and match.com can have as many or more losers than at international dating sites. One man said he went to meet a woman and she was an extra 100lbs more than she looked in the photos she sent. Some women look older. Some women were goldiggers, some women were married, others were simply trailer trash. Of course many of the men there weren't much of a catch either according to a few women I talked to. While Slavic women who are on international dating sites aren't as fluent in English, they present/represent themselves better physically than American women.

[jb]

One man said he went to meet a woman and she was an extra 100lbs more than she looked in the photos she sent.

Billy, you have said a mouthful there.  I had to go to the Post Office today, there were 5 women there ahead of me,,, and I'm a chubby F'er, standing 5' 11" or so and weighing in at 200+.  I was the thinnest and lightest person there~! All of those AW topped the scales at 300-350+.  I've hardly ever been so disgusted with my race as I was standing there with those behemoths.

Longing for my skinny RW wife to get home...

[TexasBoar]

I've hardly ever been so disgusted with my race as I was standing there with those behemoths.

I hear ya. 

One of the more surreal moments I've experienced occurred at one of those ubiquitous Chinese "super buffets" we have down here . . . I tend to hit 'em up whenever I don't feel like cooking.

Watching all those sleek, trim little Asian women darting around with trays of food while elephantine, absurdly overweight women waddled back to the steam tables for yet another heaping plate of fried whatever . . . wow.  I had to wonder what they thought of us.

I'm 6'2" and very much a "Big & Tall" section shopper, but like you---I was still the trimmest non-Asian there. 

~Boar

[jb]

Asian food will slim you down.  On my last visit to Vietnam I went in country weighing 180, 9 months later I came out of country weighing 145.  I ate like a horse and still lost weight.  Then again, maybe it was all the exercise I got while I was there.  hummmmmm.

[Globetrotter]

JB, couldn't care what she may or may not earn now or in years to come.  (Your situation sounds ideal: contributing, self respect, respected by others and by you and she knows it and fits right in!!! 

More about my squeeze:  It took about 3 weeks for her hearing about our Pres and stupidity while she said nothing.  Finally, she said, "And our president isn't so smart either" and went into a tirade about Vlad. 

Her biggest surprise was seeing traffic at 70mph and nobody crashing into each other, next, how clean this place was...manicured lawns, massive flower gardens, and how friendly Americans were to each other, and just the orderliness of the place.

As far as putting on my good suit, it's on, as is hers.  For my dough, there's no hurry, and I'm already happy with my lot and opportunities here, although we've sworn off all others while we see where things shake out between us so as not to muddy the waters. 

You and I will just keep the little secret between us that 40 and above have a sexuality that makes you feel as if you were 18...if you are able!

Again, there is no hurry, and I like to let things shake out as if she were a Yank and here.  She must percieve me as the best RM she has ever met albiet with a twist, and let things fall where they may.

I don't know you, nor have I read many of your posts, but thanks for the heads up on what to expect if the trigger gets pulled on our end.  I think we think alike!!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers

   

[Jet]

I. What term do you think best describe this?

I think the term that's been bounced around that most accurately describes these types of relationships is "cross-cultural (relationship/marriage)". Certainly less offensive than "Mail Order Bride". If my own marriage is any indication of what other participants here experience, it's quite a bit more accurate, in that our house really does bridge between the two cultures, taking what we believe to be the best of both and infusing them into our day to day life.

II. My question would be why russian women appeal to you particularly.

In my particular case, the fact that the woman who later became my wife, was Russian, was actually of very little consequence. Liliya was a woman who seduced my mind first, even before I knew what she looked like. While I was pleasantly suprised once I received a photo, it was mostly the dialog between us that motived me to see if this woman was the same person in real life that had piqued my interest in cyberspace.

III. Is there a difference or is it similar?

This is a question that really should be examined on a case by case basis, as any given individual *could* use the service provider in a multitude of ways and for any number of reasons. I believe the demography regarding predatory, nieve, socially challenged, well balanced, emotionally scarred, and mentally healthy would probably work out in very similar proportion when comparing domestic dating sites and international dating sites, but I have no statistical data to back that up; it's merely a "gut" feeling.

I can see one glaring difference in those that choose to enter into a correspondence type relationship not sharing a common language between both partners. There is already a bit of a language barrier between genders when sharing the same language, this can only be amplified without commonality in communication. We've often heard judges debate "the letter of the law vs the spirit of the law" and this is why I would not feel comfortable personally, with having to rely on dictionaries and translators to facilitate a relationship. Much can be lost in translation and two people that may be *sure* they understand each other, find out later that they are actually miles apart on core issues.

[smsmsmsm]

Hi all,

One thing I have learned here is not to stereotype people and not to generalize. I am just wondering if the comparison betwen Asian women and American women (eating for example) fall into the trap of stereotyping and generalizing though.

Also, one of the thing I read for the international dating is because of the feminist movement. The argument is that men are fed up with the independence and demands of American women as a result of women's movement. Is that true in your individual cases? I am assuming you all dated American women before. What are the general turn-offs for you?

Ada

[TexasBoar]

I am just wondering if the comparison betwen Asian women and American women (eating for example) fall into the trap of stereotyping and generalizing though.

Well, show me a fat Asian woman or three and I'll concede the possibility! 

The feminism question I'll have to come back to . . . but I would say it is more likely the worst extremes and cultural excesses SURROUNDING the feminist movement, rather than core principles of feminism or the concept of gender equality, that is the real problem.

~Boar

[Bruno]

Well, show me a fat Asian woman or three and I'll concede the possibility! 

Asian woman sumo :
- http://www.funpic.hu/files/pics/00029/00029846t.jpg

other :
- http://koti.phnet.fi/otaku/cosplay/sumochibiusa.jpg

more if you wish 

[BillyB]

Also, one of the thing I read for the international dating is because of the feminist movement. The argument is that men are fed up with the independence and demands of American women as a result of women's movement. Is that true in your individual cases? I am assuming you all dated American women before. What are the general turn-offs for you?

After reading thousands of men on the forums, there are very few that say the reason they're looking overseas is because they're fed up with feminists or American women in general. But most men can agree that women Russian and Asian women are more feminine which is attractive to a man. I am not attracted to a woman who walks, talks and acts like a man. There's no doubt some men specifically look for a submissive wife. Although the average Russian woman is very feminine, she is far from submissive and is a strong woman.

What you read about International dating is the result of the feminist movement isn't true. I've never heard about that. It may just be one of the many factors for men to choose to look overseas. My thoughts are some men think the feminist movement has caused problems at home in the USA with placing less value on the role of men but most American women aren't affected by the feminist movement. But enough of them are to the point family values are declining. Women don't need a man and men are turned off so less people want to get married and more children are being aborted or born out of wedlock. I've even read about some old school feminists who, years ago, placed career above family feel cheated by the feminist movement for misleading them because their prime child bearing years are over. Most men here would happily date a local woman as long as she's feminine, not feminist.

[TexasBoar]

First of all . . . you're a sick, sick man, Bruno.  But I reckon I stand (or sit) corrected! 

I have to wonder which feminism you're referencing, Ada---the feminism of Andrea Dworkin, who considers ALL heterosexual intercourse "rape," or the feminism of Camille Paglia, who applauds strippers and porn?

I think most mention of feminism as a motivation for international dating I've encountered personally has come from scam operators within the industry---dubious ad copy at best---rather than from men actually engaged in the pursuit.  If the RW who post here are any indication, any man looking in that direction for a "submissive" wife is going to be severely disappointed. 

But hey, there's always the Gorean fantasy forums out there for those guys. 

~Boar

[Gator]

Over the years I have read posts on RW forums in which men complain about American feminist women in the same breath as complaining about overweight American women.    In almost all cases, the men impressed me as someone with a controlling personality.

My ex-fiancee was the best of both worlds - independent and feminine.