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Author Topic: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues  (Read 31695 times)

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Offline JayH

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What's the stupidest thing a nation has ever done?
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2017, 01:44:59 PM »
Funnily enough my first thoughts when I saw this headline was Brexit --  pretty closely followed by the US electing Donald Trump. The question is which decision will do the most harm to the nation  !
Both are incredibly clueless results of flawed democratic process.


What's the stupidest thing a nation has ever done?


Michael Bloomberg has some skin in the Britain game: his ex-wife is British, his daughters have our passports. So he was saying it as a friend when he commented this week that he thought Brexit was “the single stupidest thing any country has ever done” (aside from electing Donald Trump, he added, of course).

True, it is hard for Bloomberg to imagine why people might vote against a system that worked perfectly well for billionaire captains of industry. And whatever follows may knock a few points off the GDP. But is it really the stupidest thing any country has ever done?

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/shortcuts/2017/oct/25/whats-the-stupidest-thing-a-nation-has-ever-done
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline ML

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Re: What's the stupidest thing a nation has ever done?
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2017, 01:55:33 PM »
Both are incredibly clueless results of flawed democratic process.

What is example of the flaw in the democratic process of elections in USA?

A candidate you favor not winning is not an example of a flaw.
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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2017, 02:53:04 PM »
Once again it's BillyB that speak the most sense. The £ is currently undervalued at the moment as there is a lot off oversensitivity to the Brexit situation in the financial markets. We only need to look back to the eighties & early nineties to when this country stood without the EU & before to realise this is stupid, the country has functioned perfectly well before the EU came about and will do after.

The rise in inflation is a result of Mark Carney dropping the interest rates by a quarter percent not so long ago. His meddling has caused the inflation, he should have left interest rates alone, the economy was perfectly stable. Carney though is pro-EU and to me seems to be a result of his politicing. There's a lot of very rich vested interests in Britain that hold the view that their interests should prevail over the democratic vote. Their upset because the British public didn't do as they bidded as we have done so often in the past and vote as they dictated. I mean do you really think a very wealthy guy like Bloomsberg really has any idea or consideration what life is like in the EU for the general UK public?
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline GQBlues

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Re: What's the stupidest thing a nation has ever done?
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2017, 02:58:28 PM »
What's the stupidest thing a nation has ever done?


Having generations of feeble-minded population get fleeced off by a useless hag, and her entire bloodline, while she cuts the fat off the hog from the mindless population who chalk it up as *ceremonial*.
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline msmob

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Re: What's the stupidest thing a nation has ever done?
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2017, 02:58:47 PM »
Perhaps you have not heard of the Electoral College which was implemented to avoid the big cities controlling the politics of the country and leaving out the rural population.  We have been using this system since the beginning and are satisfied with it.  Since you are not an American, I suspect you prefer the parliamentary system.  No problem, you have your system, we have ours!

I answered ML's question...

We have the same issue in that the 'first past the post' system means that we get situations whereby a party can govern - with a majority - having not won the majority of votes ..

I suggest you assumed, wrongly ..  Quite happy to have knowledgeable folk offer intelligent observations of our bizarre, evolved govt., whereby the head of state is a member of a family that inherits 'power' ))


Offline msmob

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Re: What's the stupidest thing a nation has ever done?
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2017, 03:01:21 PM »

Having generations of feeble-minded population get fleeced off by a useless hag, and her entire bloodline, while she cuts the fat off the hog from the mindless population who chalk it up as *ceremonial*.

GQB

I'm still not sure if you are referring to HM The Queen ...    There is nothing 'mindless' about history - something lots of Americans are welcome to come and see - now that the GBP is so week


She pays for herself ...

 

Offline GQBlues

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Re: What's the stupidest thing a nation has ever done?
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2017, 03:07:00 PM »
She pays for herself ...




 :ROFL:


Point made.
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline msmob

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2017, 03:28:21 PM »
Once again it's BillyB that speak the most sense.


I'm sure having the likes of you backing up his clueless 'factoids' and inability to deal with my specific ripostes will be 'validation'
 :ROFL:

The £ is currently undervalued at the moment as there is a lot off oversensitivity to the Brexit situation in the financial markets. We only need to look back to the eighties & early nineties to when this country stood without the EU & before to realise this is stupid, the country has functioned perfectly well before the EU came about and will do after.

Thanks for demonstrating you understand the concept of currency valuations and historical fact ...NOT ...

1/ In the nineties Britain was IN the EU - God, can you get anything right ?  The UK was part of the ever enlarging EEC from the SEVENTIES ....    If anyone remembers how 'well' industry was doing in the 50's, 60s and 70's - DECLINE ...  Can they remind rose-tinted spectacles Trench ?

2/ The GBP is valued based on: current and future expectations..

The rise in inflation is a result of Mark Carney dropping the interest rates by a quarter percent not so long ago.

 :shock: :ROFL:

No.. a team of experts lowered the rates - agreeing 7:2 in August '16 from 0.5 to 0.25 percent.. the main inflationary pressure has been the GBP falling and thus imports cost more, so prices had to rise.  You clearly aren't feeling the pulse of most UK businesses.

the economy was perfectly stable.

Well, it was until it looked possible that we could actually commit suicide and vote 'Brexit' ... there was a huge danger of a recession - given the shock of the result and it's implications for job losses in the most lucrative service sector - which was the ONLY sector still 'growing' in Aug '16 ...   

I have to wonder if you're just scanning google and managing to look more daft ...

Carney though is pro-EU and to me seems to be a result of his politicing.

He certainly pointed out the fall-out of a leave vote ... the vote is hardly his fault and - once again - interest rates are set by a committee of experts - NOT him !

There's a lot of very rich vested interests in Britain that hold the view that their interests should prevail over the democratic vote. Their upset because the British public didn't do as they bidded as we have done so often in the past and vote as they dictated. I mean do you really think a very wealthy guy like Bloomsberg really has any idea or consideration what life is like in the EU for the general UK public?

1/ IF you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that a select bunch of businessmen  seeking a weaker Pound to aid their exports - spent big to get a leave vote - posting slogans - like 'savings of £350 million / week' that were simply LIES ..

2/ Bloomberg employs HOW many people in the UK ? It is currently THE financial hub - but that is ebbing away to other EU nations...  So, YES he'd know ...

Certainly better than you.

« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 03:37:15 PM by msmob »

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2017, 03:57:06 PM »
Moby, the EEC was different to the EU, we voted to be in the EEC the British public did not vote to be in the EU. At the time most accepted it as it was just seen as a membership organisation NOT a government. With the EEC we largely stood as an independent nation & economy rather than the 'single market' Which came under the EU.

Guys like Bloomsberg look at the opportunities that would exist for his daughters by being in the EU. Those opportunities do not remotely exist for most Britons only the super rich with their schemes of power plays, etc. Freedom of movement entails much more scope for them than an average earning Joe or an unemployed guy in the UK.

Carney basically leads the monetary committee he has a big sway over the way they vote. They may decide not to follow he's lead but often they will. It was evident from Carney's speach shortly after the Brexit vote came in that he was trying to unsettle the economy to try to undermine the democratic vote.

For some reason there are those who think the democratic vote should not be respected. Donald Tusk this week suggested that 'no Brexit' was an option. They should really accept the vote, not doing so would cause more problems not less.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline msmob

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2017, 12:21:02 AM »
Don't you Americans have enough threads going without introducing your Emperor in New Clothes into the UK Brexit thread ?;)


Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2017, 12:53:22 AM »
Don't you Americans have enough threads going without introducing your Emperor in New Clothes into the UK Brexit thread ?;)

Mobe, I'm not even sure why you introduced the Brexit thread. The way I see it, it's all been decided, it's going to go through so nothing more to say. Remainers lost the referendum so stop you're remoaning :D
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline msmob

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2017, 05:44:19 AM »
Mobe, I'm not even sure why you introduced the Brexit thread. The way I see it, it's all been decided,

WHAT has been decided, Trench?

Aren't you aware of the regular meetings between the UK and the EU?

NOTHING - that really is NOTHING - has been decided..

The current EU stance is, "UK must agree to the final figure for payments promised into the EU, ( incl in the budgets) before any other agreements can be finalised"

More 101 stuff .. :deadhorse:

Now - if you or BillyB can get back to us re your previous countered howlers.....  I'm enjoying educating you, both )

« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 11:52:11 AM by msmob »

Offline BillyB

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2017, 07:55:45 AM »
Don't you Americans have enough threads going without introducing your Emperor in New Clothes into the UK Brexit thread ?;)


Trump was not introduced into this thread by an American. You were the third poster in this thread to mention Trump and did it numerous times. Pay attention.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2017, 08:33:12 AM »
Mobe, it's been decided that we ate leaving the EU, we won the vote to do so, we now have a pro leave government & article 50 has been declared. Now it is only a matter off time before we leave the EU, you may still not accept that but it is how it is, it is inevitable that we leave the EU.

I personally can't see the EU lasting long with the way it racks up debt before it itself defaults just like Greece. Saddling us down with a portion of their debt will not help them or us. We voted out of EU as we disagreed with us having to pay for EU bureaucrats to feather their own nests through over generous pensions, etc. So we should not pay them anything but rather bid them good day and be on our way. Something tells me we would get a better deal post Brexit than during it. I'm will to sit this out until the inevitable leaving occurs :popcorn:
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline BillyB

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2017, 09:28:04 AM »
Something tells me we would get a better deal post Brexit than during it. I'm will to sit this out until the inevitable leaving occurs :popcorn:


Germany and France may allow you guys to be as important as they are at the EU in hopes to lure you back to the EU. Also the EU can give the UK control over their own border and stop forcing you to take more Syrian immigrants than you want.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline msmob

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2017, 11:49:59 AM »

Trump was not introduced into this thread by an American. You were the third poster in this thread to mention Trump and did it numerous times. Pay attention.

YOU introduced Obama -  responding to a Brit about Trump ..

How attentive is that ?;)

Offline msmob

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2017, 11:56:03 AM »
Mobe, it's been decided that we ate leaving the EU, we won the vote to do so, we now have a pro leave government & article 50 has been declared. Now it is only a matter off time before we leave the EU, you may still not accept that but it is how it is, it is inevitable that we leave the EU.

It is noted that you didn't respond to my precise points re the leaving - and merely repeat your clueless mantra.

I personally can't see the EU lasting long with the way it racks up debt before it itself defaults just like Greece. Saddling us down with a portion of their debt will not help them or us. We voted out of EU as we disagreed with us having to pay for EU bureaucrats to feather their own nests through over generous pensions, etc. So we should not pay them anything but rather bid them good day and be on our way. Something tells me we would get a better deal post Brexit than during it. I'm will to sit this out until the inevitable leaving occurs :popcorn:

YOU might be 'willing' - but sadly business owners need to plan ..  You are clearly salaried and leave the planning to big boys...

Offline msmob

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2017, 05:38:16 PM »
Jumper - as a mod - Can you move your US infestation of a Brit oriented thread elsewhere, please  :welcome: ?


Anyway - back on topic ..

The likes of Trench - who thought this was a good idea ...  now see we have

1/ Inflation - due to the GBP fall - so costs rose - so now interest rates have been put up - for the first time in 10 years ... which will have a dramatic effect on those borrowing as interest rates were so low..

2/ Job losses ... another - easily predictable -  forecast by 'Protect Fear' - the Remain campaign - the 'Golden Goose' of UK PLC - Finance  - the City of London - will see 75K well-paid jobs moving overseas - as Financial Giants aren't going to wait and see how many of their bright young things will need visas and the Euro-zone take measures to penalise London for having been THE place to trade in 'their' currency ..

The STUPIDITY of those seeking 'independence' over access to markets - in a macro trading world know no bounds ...((

Offline JayH

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Putin & 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2017, 01:31:50 AM »
Ahh--   apart from not being able to comprehend how dumb some voters are --the US example of how they can be influenced is now at centre stage -- as is Putin's agenda . It clear that he has succeeded to an incredible degree to sow disharmony -- and chaos in the west.

Now this--
Putin's active measures can help tip balance back in Brexit referendum

Word of Russian ‘black cash’ financing leave campaigns is fast becoming a torrent. As the inquiries pile up, hard evidence could delegitimise the EU referendum in Britain, Mark Galeotti wrote for The Guardian.

Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/2223581-putins-active-measures-can-help-tip-balance-back-in-brexit-referendum-media.html

SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Re: Putin & 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2017, 01:38:20 AM »
 I am guessing that it will be every bit as difficult to convince Brexiteers that the Russian money and influence peddling affected the outcome  as it is for the Trumpateers in the US to understand that it was the Russians hand up Trumps back that got him elected !

The presidential administration is the most powerful institution in Vladimir Putin’s deeply personalised system: it feeds him the intelligence he wants, it oversees ministries and governors, and it coordinates his “active measures” political dirty tricks campaign in the west. This spring, I sat down in Moscow with an astute former staffer of the presidential administration and he remarked that Putin demanded apparent success today at the expense of real success tomorrow. Brexit may prove the perfect case study.


How Putin could yet save Britain from Brexit

All told, it would be a fitting irony if, of all people, it was Putin who saved Britain from Brexit. A steady trickle of hard information and soft rumour about Russian support for Brexit risks becoming a torrent. Some of this support was, frankly, of questionable impact. Too much is often made of the alleged influence of the English-language Sputnik news agency and RT television channel, or even of the online trolling and disinformation campaign. Evidence that they actually changed minds – rather than just pandered to existing prejudices – is still lacking.

However, there is a growing likelihood that later this year or early next we will see solid evidence of financial support for the Brexit camp, too. MP Ben Bradshaw has used parliamentary privilege to raise the question of the mysteriously bottomless pockets of Arron Banks, the main backer for Leave.EU. The Electoral Commission this week launched an investigation into whether he and one of his companies broke campaign finance rules in the run-up to the referendum. George Cottrell, once an aide to the former Ukip leader Nigel Farage, has been arrested by the FBI on money laundering charges, and we await the outcome of that investigation.

 Is a second Brexit vote possible? Yes – if the people want it
Hugo Dixon
 Read more
Meanwhile, according to US intelligence sources with whom I have discussed Moscow’s activities, there are other cases of what the Russian spooks call “black cash” supporting pro-Brexit campaigns and campaigners, likely to be revealed over the course of the several inquiries taking place on the other side of the Atlantic.


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/02/putin-save-britain-brexit-russia-eu-referendum?CMP=share_btn_tw
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online 2tallbill

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #45 on: November 04, 2017, 07:58:19 AM »
The STUPIDITY of those seeking 'independence' over access to markets - in a macro trading world know no bounds ...((

The street runs both ways and you ignore that.

Does Germany want access to Uk markets? Does France? There is nothing that
they make in Germany that isn't manufactured somewhere else. The USA, Japan,
Korea and China all would love to have Germany and Francy Pants share of the
UK market.

Some of your points are valid, but the Chicken Little scenario isn't going to happen.
The individual countries of the EU will blink and the pencil necks in Brussels won't
be able to determine the specific gravity of the gravel in the asphalt on the motorway
linking Hendon to Leeds.

Don't laugh the EU Harmonisation has standards on exactly that. It was principally
to eliminate barriers to trade within the European economy, including the UK.
So who knows how much freaking gravel you have to import from ____________
enter far away place here, in order to build a local highway when all common
sense would tell you to get the gravel from a source as close to the road construction
as humanly possible. 

« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 08:04:06 AM by 2tallbill »
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Offline treadmilldude

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #46 on: November 04, 2017, 07:59:09 AM »
Moby, I have a question for you. I ask you because you seem to be the most well-read, most educated on Brexit. I have read a good deal on Brexit, but my knowledge on the subject pales in comparison to yours.

By the way, I love the pic from a few days ago with you and SC. You two look very happy together, a very loving Couple. SC looks very happy in the picture - pretty, sweet smile on her face. As usual, she looks beautiful, she is a beautiful girl Moby. You are a very blessed Man, and I hope you tell SC, minimum 25 times every day, how beautiful she is and how much you love her. How important she is to you and how much she improves your life in all facets. Just always be good to a Woman like her, Moby. They are hard to find, and can be hard to retain.

I know I can find a good woman like her, I have had good Women like her in my life........just never married a good woman like her.........the challenge for me will be retaining her and avoiding having her serve me with divorce papers after 8,10, 12 years of marriage. I am going to always have to have my  (A+)  game going 365 days per year as a Husband to accomplish that. I think too many of my friends, who married good women yet subsequently suffered divorces years down the road.....it was a combination of their US Wives being unreasonably demanding, in addition to my male friends not showing up with their  (A+)  game 365 days per year of their marriage. Marriage is hard work and I am scared of failing at it as my friends have done. But this fear will work to my advantage I believe, and force me to become an even better Husband. 
Or if I do not, then Divorce is almost a guaranteed future sequela.   

My question for you....I know you are not a fan of Brexit right now. But before the vote, I read some excellent arguments from both sides of the argument. In your non-biased, non-emotional, purely objective estimation.....what do you feel are the most likely long-term (ie 15 to 25 years from now - so in about 2032 to 2042) effects of Brexit? Looking at it purely objectively and casting aside any emotions you have on the subject, do you see the UK being better off overall post-Brexit 15 to 25 years from now (ie long-term) ?

I keep trying to figure out if the UK is going to be better or worse off long-term under Brexit, but I keep stumbling on wildly different thoughts on the matter. There are definitely true believers on both sides of the issue. You are a pretty bright guy Moby, I would like to hear your thoughts on the effects of Brexit 15 to 25 years from now.

Offline BC

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #47 on: November 04, 2017, 10:39:49 AM »
The Brexit impact papers should bring some clarity.

Offline Jumper

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #48 on: November 04, 2017, 06:33:23 PM »
Jumper - as a mod - Can you move your US infestation of a Brit oriented thread elsewhere, please  :welcome: ?


Anyway - back on topic ..

The likes of Trench - who thought this was a good idea ...  now see we have

1/ Inflation - due to the GBP fall - so costs rose - so now interest rates have been put up - for the first time in 10 years ... which will have a dramatic effect on those borrowing as interest rates were so low..

2/ Job losses ... another - easily predictaouble -  forecast by 'Protect Fear' - the Remain campaign - the 'Golden Goose' of UK PLC - Finance  - the City of London - will see 75K well-paid jobs moving overseas - as Financial Giants aren't going to wait and see how many of their bright young things will need visas and the Euro-zone take measures to penalise London for having been THE place to trade in 'their' currency ..

The STUPIDITY of those seeking 'independence' over access to markets - in a macro trading world know no bounds ...((


I'm not a mod.
Havn't been for some time.

The forum hasn't been updated
In years in that respect.
That said : politics of a different flavor in a political thread is about
As minor if thread drift as ever occurs.
I would not care if it's all deleted,
but if it disrupted basically 3 people talking about Brexit,
 Sporadically, while giving side shots at US politics,
It sure isn't the end of the world.
You guys have better things to fuss over here I'm sure.

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'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #49 on: November 04, 2017, 06:50:50 PM »
The Brexit impact papers should bring some clarity.

I don't have a horse in this race, I just don't belong to the chicken little school
of thought.

It's an interesting situation in the UK. The negotiators put together some plans
and theories about what could happen in what industry and their political enemies
get those plans and negotiating theories published so that the EU negotiators can
know how and what the UK team perceives as their weaknesses.

That can't be the best way to hold a negotiation.



« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 06:54:49 PM by 2tallbill »
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Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

 

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