Question for any Christians here.

[DaveNY]

... the Jews Hebrews capture and slavery in Egypt.  Actually, the term 'Jews' came about much later in history and isn't mentioned historically until after Solomon became king for 40 years. Then [after he died] there was a separation between the tribes of Israel 10 to the northern kingdom and they kicked out the Levites who went to the southern kingdom [Judah] Israel was captured by the Assyrians and became dispersed. Judah [then called the Jews..Judah, Benjamin and Levi] was captured by Babylon and returned and was called Judea. The Northern Israel was later called Samaria [settled by wanderers].

True but unless you're a scholar or study the bible extensively you can't know all the different tribes. It's simply easier to refer to all the tribes as Jews.

Unfortunately it is. More people died in the Viet Nam war than any dozens of Canaans Cambodia not included...nor Laos... nor Burma etc.
More American natives were killed for the same reasons.

If you're talking about numbers of people killed than yes that is true however if you're talking about percentages of the global population killed than no.

After all there are now somewhere around 7.7 billion people on Earth today. When the Romans were conquering the civilized world the world had a population of somewhere between 150 million and 300 million. The wars between the Romans and barbarians wouldn't need too many fatalities to kill off a significant portion of the global population.

In the 13th century when the Mongols invaded Europe the global population was about 400 million. The Mongols killed millions. According to some estimates between 1211 and 1337, the Mongols may have killed as many as 18.4 million people in East Asia alone. That would be about 5% of the then global population in one part of the world. IOW the Mongols probably killed a larger percentage of the global population than all wars from WW1 forward.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population_estimates
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_under_the_Mongol_Empire
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/5-most-lethal-wars-human-history-13422

[DaveNY]

Dave
I am not trying to debate you. You are obviously a bright fellow that has contemplated these issues before. I admire you for examining the evidence. My goal in this exchange is to offer a Reformed Church perspective on the critiques you raised, and reduce your dependence on weak (maybe the weakest you have encountered?) arguments to justify your atheism

It is true I like a good debate. One of the reasons I'm a lawyer. IMO it's also true that religious people aren't fond of atheists, especially those atheists that tend to point out the many problems with religions, all religions.

[ML]

Hey guys, this is worse than our political discussions.

[DaveNY]

Hey guys, this is worse than our political discussions.

I'd like to think our discussions are somewhat more civilized. Maybe not. Fortunately no one knows where I live. 

[PeterWarrick9]

I'd like to think our discussions are somewhat more civilized. Maybe not. Fortunately no one knows where I live. 

I enjoy this debate and I appreciate your respect perspective.

Unfortunately, I don't think you know what you're atheism is getting you into.  I hope and pray you never suffer the consequences of your choice.

[DaveNY]

I enjoy this debate and I appreciate your respect perspective.

Unfortunately, I don't think you know what you're atheism is getting you into.  I hope and pray you never suffer the consequences of your choice.

A married friend of mine is an atheist. His inlaws are devote Baptists. One day at a family BBQ his FIL asked him what he would say if he died and found out there was a heaven and he was going to be judged for his sins? My friend's reply was that in his opinion God didn't do enough PR to justify Christianity's existence and even though he was an atheist he hadn't lived a sinful life so he should still be admitted to heaven.

Then my friend asked his FIL a question. What would happen if after a long life the FIL died and discovered the afterlife existed and he was to be judged. Problem was the afterlife was not a Christian afterlife but a Hindu afterlife and he was to be judged according to the laws of Hinduism. For instance cows are sacred yet the FIL loved to BBQ beef and eat hamburgers. What would the FIL say to mitigate his sins under Hinduism?

Apparently this question did not please the FIL who wouldn't answer and said he'd only discuss Christianity not other pagan religions. So much for tolerance in Christianity.

PeterWarrick9 are you a vegan? What happens if Hinduism is the one true religion? Are you prepared to be judged under some other religion's laws in the afterlife?

[PeterWarrick9]

A married friend of mine is an atheist. His inlaws are devote Baptists. One day at a family BBQ his FIL asked him what he would say if he died and found out there was a heaven and he was going to be judged for his sins? My friend's reply was that in his opinion God didn't do enough PR to justify Christianity's existence and even though he was an atheist he hadn't lived a sinful life so he should still be admitted to heaven.

Then my friend asked his FIL a question. What would happen if after a long life the FIL died and discovered the afterlife existed and he was to be judged. Problem was the afterlife was not a Christian afterlife but a Hindu afterlife and he was to be judged according to the laws of Hinduism. For instance cows are sacred yet the FIL loved to BBQ beef and eat hamburgers. What would the FIL say to mitigate his sins under Hinduism?

Apparently this question did not please the FIL who wouldn't answer and said he'd only discuss Christianity not other pagan religions. So much for tolerance in Christianity.

PeterWarrick9 are you a vegan? What happens if Hinduism is the one true religion? Are you prepared to be judged under some other religion's laws in the afterlife?

I'm absolutely prepared to be judged under any of the main religions in the world today.

 Do Christians go to hell under the Hindu judgement? I don't think so but I'm not sure. I know they don't under Islam and Judaism.

I am not a vegan.

[tfcrew]

True but unless you're a scholar or study the bible extensively you can't know all the different tribes. It's simply easier to refer to all the tribes as Jews.

I'll put it this way... Texans are Americans but not all Americans are Texans.
Jews are Israelites but not all Israelites are Jewish.
Where are the other Israelites? They are everywhere and they don't even know just who they are.
I heard just today that Ivana Trump [I think that is her name] had converted to Judaism.
Not easily understood by the Jewish who have converted to Christianity.
The tribes of Israel that were dispersed have been assimilated into the world.
The idea that the lost tribes are gathered in remote parts of Africa or some corner of India etc is bogus.
You do not have to be a 'scholar' or a recognized bible 'expert' to review scripture and understand this. The pope himself probably doesn't have a clue.
The Catholic Church has long dismissed Abrahamic history as insignificant. I fail to agree.
 
 

[ML]

Jews are Israelites . . . .

I disagree and am always surprised why people confuse religion with nationality.

Those of the Jewish faith who live in USA are not Israelites . . . just as Catholics who live in USA are not Romans or Italians.

And further, the correct title of those who live in current day Israel is Israelis, not Israelites.

[krimster2]

what Columbus was some guy?
I always that it was someone from Columbus, Ohio that discovered America
and that people just referred to it as "Columbus discovered America" instead of sayin the "THE CITY of Columbus discovered America
but it's some guy, he probably just took the name for himself like Irving Berlin, Jack London

[tfcrew]

I disagree

Perhaps this will explain in more detail....

In the Hebrew Bible the term Israelites is used interchangeably with the term Twelve Tribes of Israel. Although related, the terms Hebrews, Israelites, and Jews are not interchangeable in all instances

.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites