No 'Honor' killings but a male dominated society of having a family 'Patroni' the eldest male making sure their women keep their honor. This I've been told by Georgian men I've gotten to know and some Western women who teach English here. Women keeping their virginity until marriage is expected. An American told me things were warming up between a young Georgian woman and himself until one day he was met at his door by three of her male relatives...
A young Georgian woman I knew, mostly from online, a few times on the phone, and twice in person but always in the accompany of her brothers or her cousin George. She told me it was true that Georgian woman were expected to remain virtuous until marriage, but the men were expected to sow their wild oats.
Ple-ease
I go to Poland and Russia and know 3 generations of Poles and Russians in the UK / Cyprus
What you just posted - sorry - is twaddle
UW used to say that as well. But everyone discounted it. They used to say, roughly translated, “A virgin in her left ear.” It loses something in translation.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
Poles and Russians are culturally different. Russia became much less religious under communism. In Poland religion helped them conquer it.
Polish society is [ Moby suggestion WAS ] more conservative than the former Soviet states. In Poland a girl selling her virginity online would be shameful. It's not that they are all angels, far from it, but that the standards are higher, as with Georgia.
P.S. Google is a proper noun. It should be capitalized in English.
How often do you go to Poland ?
I've never used the services of a sex-worker but the adverts for same are not invisible ....
If anything, Poland is less religious and Russia more conservative ( pious ?) now ...Religiosity and political conservatism are frequently related, but not quite the same thing. I certainly didn't see an increase in religiosity in my last trip to Russia just over a year ago in comparison to my first trip many years prior. Poland is presently governed by a president and two houses of the legislature that are quite strongly identified with conservative Catholicism. They passed laws against businesses staying open on Sundays and proposed making abortions harder to have, even when Poland has one of the strictest anti-abortion laws already.:
Religion was one of two forces that overcame totalitarianism - in Poland - the other was the workers ....
Actually, it's a collective noun in the context you use and I make no apology for the lower case 'g' ... as *I* was using it as a verb ...
Far more often than you, and I have traveled around it extensively. I know it quite well.
I don't either, [ moby - we are referring to the use of prostitutes ] but the only place in Poland I recall seeing such marketing, (i.e., very small printed advertisements left on car windshields and then blown around the streets), was in downtown Warsaw.
Prostitution itself isn't illegal in Poland, only promoting it and pimping, so it isn't unusual to see it in the capital city when it isn't so visible in other places. Similarly, prostitution and other similar things like massage services and strip clubs are much more visible in Kiev than in other parts of Ukraine, and far more visible than in Warsaw. Poland has attracted many women from the former Soviet states, and not a few are employed as strippers or sex workers. So the fact that it is apparent doesn't prove that the workers are all Polish women. Hardly.
Comparing religiosity and political conservatism are frequently related, but not quite the same thing. I certainly didn't see an increase in religion in my last trip to Russia just over a year ago in comparison to my first trip many years prior. Poland is presently governed by a president and two houses of the legislature that are quite strongly identified with conservative Catholicism.
They passed laws against businesses staying open on Sundays
Another factor that you miss is that communism was imposed by an invading army that took half of the country, declared that Slavs in the West who spoke related dialects of Western Slavic languages were now Poles, and continued to occupy the resulting political state for over 50 years. Nationalism certainly played a role in things as well.
Who knew that msmob and Boethiues are actually one and the same person? It's not surprising to read such nonsense that Google was not used as a proper noun, when plainly it was.
Really strange post. I have met a gynaecologist that performed hymen replacements for mainly Turkish clients.
Really strange post. I have met a gynaecologist that performed hymen replacements for mainly Turkish clients.
Really strange post. I have met a gynaecologist that performed hymen replacements for mainly Turkish clients.
Indeed - many FSU folk can be found in former Warsaw Pact nations - such as Poland, Czech republic - and they do not ( just ) rely on the sex industry ... Neither of us know much about the sex industry to be 'experts' - right ?
I see v.little Christian-like 'tolerance' in sweeping aside the makeup of the Supreme Court, anti-immigration and attempts to disallow a raped women to be forbidden an abortion ....
'I am an Ulster PROTESTANT and quite happy to have the shops closed on Sundays )
Incorrect - the Molotov - Ribbentrop Pact http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pactpact (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pactpact)initially split the West Nazi / and East ( Communism ) and Poles found themselves being expected to know German / Russian .... followed by Russian
Where IS Warsaw located in Poland - there was me thinking it was in the far east - near the Belarus frontier .......?
Why DO N.Americans suggest the 'fanny' us at the 'rear' of a lady ?
It's just very curious if Russia has become more religious and pious as msmob asserts
why then isn't virginity so prized and left for marriage as Orthodoxy preaches?
Despite all of his snark here, he sadly begs that question.
Most though move in family and close friends cirlces and then of course is the catholic influence as Strider mentions of social conservatism, the orthodox faith doesn't reallt seem to extoll the same social conservatism to the extent the catholic faith does.
You will find it difficult to find a virgin for marriage. They have them in places like Georgia for
example but to marry one you will have to move to their country, learn the language, join
their church attend 3 hours every Sunday, fast nearly a hundred days per year. Then you
have to get to know a family and only then you can pursue on of their daughters.
What happens if you do all of that and marry her and find out that she doesn't like sex all
that much and she also wants to abstain during the 100 fast days?
I went to Georgia to meet a girl from Kutaisi in Tblisi, but I didn't go because she was a
virgin, I went because I really, really liked her. It didn't work out.
I would examine what your goals are and if this is really super important for you.
You base this on what? Your vast knowledge of Orthodoxy?
[Insert favorite laughing GIF Here]
To Trench, you try to attribute singular traits to huge populations of people.
There are Orthodox girls who are very serious about their religion in every country
in the world and their are girls who are NOT serious about their religion in every
country in the world.
You can't attribute ONE characteristic to an entire population of women you really
need to stop doing that.
[Insert favorite laughing GIF Here]
You can't attribute ONE characteristic to an entire population of women you really
need to stop doing that.
[Insert favorite laughing GIF Here]
To Trench, you try to attribute singular traits to huge populations of people.
There are Orthodox girls who are very serious about their religion in every country
in the world and their are girls who are NOT serious about their religion in every
country in the world.
You can't attribute ONE characteristic to an entire population of women you really
need to stop doing that.
It must be said though that young Polish women have great bods :D All are slender, a fattie is very hard to find, those that wear were basically American tourist girls, they dressed completely different. Polish women dress femninine in tight dresses to show off there fifgure but dresses that cover all, very few can be seen with boobs hanging out, unlike Ukrainain girls. American girls tend to dress scruffyish, t-shirt & jeans, almost always overweight so can be easily identified from their Polish counterparts.
You will find it difficult to find a virgin for marriage.
What a total load of rubbish. What women say and what they do are 2 different things. 30 year old polish virgins .. maybe in my grandfather's day.....polish girls often are the same as Belarus and Ukraine . They have just learned to be more wary due to a greater exposure to western men who often speak with forked tounge.
Well it started out in a thread about Georgian women, where like Turkey, virginity is prized. I remember a story I heard about the Greek community in North America 25 years about a young woman who was humiliated at her bridal shower for not being a virgin for her fiancé. The tradition was that they put a white sheet on a bed and guests left money for the bride. In her case, they put a black sheet on the bed and no one left any money. The Greek girls had a reputation for doing everything but vaginal intercourse to remain, technically, virgins until marriage.
It's just very curious if Russia has become more religious and pious as msmob asserts why then isn't virginity so prized and left for marriage as Orthodoxy preaches? Despite all of his snark here, he sadly begs that question.
The FSU girls have quite a reputation in Poland. I do know that Polish men make jokes about “tania Tanya”. The Polish border guards at the crossing to Kaliningrad are reported to not permit Polish men to cross without showing they have brought condoms.
Plainly he is not a Catholic who understands that his idea of “tolerance” does not match the doctrine of the Church that abortion is not morally justifiable in cases of rape, since the child is innocent of the crime. Even when the mother's life is danger from the pregnancy the church has been slow to recognize a mother's right to “self-defense”.
Poland's present government has been very committed to following the doctrine of the Catholic church and the Pope, not Ulster Protestants.
Initially? Really? Then why did the Soviets only return Przemyśl and a very small area of what they took around Białystok and Suwalki out of a territory that was over 50% of the land of The Second Polish Republic? A typical ignorant post that ignores that WWII began to remove an independent Polish state from the map and ended without its proper restoration due to treacherous “allies”. Since September 1st, 1939 Poland until the last Soviet troops left on September 18, 1993, Poland had been under continuous occupation by one or both of these two allies. That is a period of over 54 years.
Traditionally, Warsaw is considered to be in central to Western Poland.
The Wilno/Vilnius area, Belarus (of yore Lithuania) and (what is now called) Western Ukraine comprise what was the Polish kresy in the East. .....
Why do modern Brits and their Northern Irish countrymen lack a command of the English Language? “us at the 'rear'"? Why are you at the rear? Sounds like an admission of being quite a dupa!
As most of you guys know I went to Krakow in Poland last Summer and found exactly as Strider describes.
Polish women are not virgins but they are harder to get into a relationship with and they want to wear the trousers in the relationship more than Ukrainians. Belarussians are half way in between. Yes this a generalisation based on my observations and not statistically viable.
Why wouldn't we be surprised - you both post bollox 'theories and conclusions, therein ...? ;)
Trench thinks women who aren't interested in him are 'conservative' ? )
There are c.500k Polish females in the UK and Trench thinks UK women are too entitled and cannot GET a date with a Polish lass anywhere ....
Don't forget about the chaperones or the family patroni you have to get past.
It is kind of like this
Cameraguy asked me to do a post on this. I'll get around to it soon.
The point that I was making is that FSU girls have found that selling their virginity online is very profitable. Some do it more than once. I find it humorous that some wealthy guys are paying extreme sums of money for "recycled virgins". Modern science is truly amazing!
Trench thinks women who aren't interested in him are 'conservative' ? )
Do you agree TC? How are they 'conservative' ?
My wife is a very conservative woman but that does not stop us enjoying life together.
Have to agree with Krim, Latvians Belarus and Ukraine like washing their man's bits
Trench I've dated 2 Ukrainians and I'm off as soon as possible to meet another. I would say all 3 are the most entertaining people I've ever met. Fit bodies nice faces but could probably stand in front of an audience and have them all laughing.
:D Sounds great.
I agree with Krim too, FSW are a gift to western men. Watching guys on You Tube doing PUA on FSW on the street and how feminine and easy going they are, a joy to behold :) Reminds me of how lovely it is there for that and takes me out of the reality of life in western society and the depressing state of affairs with women here. After watching beautiful FSW on those vids I feel my mood lifting :)
Mobe, Polish girls in the UK will in most cases date Polish guys. Firstly it is right in front of them and most convienient to do so. Second they came to the UK for economic reasons not social. Third most immediately disregard English guys, to them we are immediately decedant and unworthy and all get tarred in the same brush in their eyes, few of us are catholics for starters, they regarded us as having low morals and only interested in short cusual hook ups for sex and over social values are alien to theirs.
"You, and the "PUAs" are foreigners. That is why women show you attention in Ukraine. In the UK, you are just an ordinary bloke so women pay you no mind. Were you famous, or conspicuously wealthy, you'd garner the same attention in the UK from British women as the UW are giving you.
YES!!! BO!!! YES!!! and it's just freakin wonderful!!!!!!!
Another 'Trench experience' I've not found to be the case in the UK :cluebat:
1/ I've known a fair few guys dating ( and marrying ) Polish lasses
2/ YOU might be deemed 'unworthy' , matey .... NOT my or their experience .... with ladies in general ...
Do you realise you are the most entertaining poster on here ?
You have very limited experience with UW, so I wonder why you believe the "fit" is better.
I suggest to you that your perception of "fit' is that they are willing to speak to you/date you. That's hardly a reason for a "fit". It's also why others here have suggested you date locally before "taking the plunge".
This post was composed without the aid of google.
Boethius what knowledge of English women do you base your comments on. Fact most British women are not worth dating. Fact many Belarus and Ukranian women are well worth dating. I'm old school I can charm women in the FSU in the UK they want a metrosexual comedian. I just fit in. I don't buy my way into situations, I don't dress any way special I just start with a sapiosexual relationship and move on from there . Works a treat. In UK all you get is loads of trouble and attitude.
Boethius what knowledge of English women do you base your comments on. Fact most British women are not worth dating. Fact many Belarus and Ukranian women are well worth dating. I'm old school I can charm women in the FSU in the UK they want a metrosexual comedian. I just fit in. I don't buy my way into situations, I don't dress any way special I just start with a sapiosexual relationship and move on from there . Works a treat. In UK all you get is loads of trouble and attitude.
Yes one of the reasons is that they will speak to me/date me. In the west tge dating situation is real bad for guys. For example take this article of women at speed dating:
http://www.elitedaily.com/dating/speed-dating-never-again/1251946 (http://www.elitedaily.com/dating/speed-dating-never-again/1251946)
I have been speed dating four times and like most blokes there get a big fat zero from these snooty bitchy women. Sure most like the girl in the article are nice to your face but that is tge bad attitude they go there with, they'very already decided from the get go before even meeting the men that they are all unworthy. Yet still they feel the need to character assasinate every guy over any minor issue they can find from both breathing to mere existence.
So despite being single themselves they would rather go home still single after the event not wishing to meet again any of the twenty guys that made an effort and expense to turn up and do their best. They would rather live what is likely to turn out to be an increasingly sad and lonely single life than get with one of those guys in what could easily turn out to be a warm and happy family life.
That is how western women are like, the difference is like night & day compared with FSW.
That's so true James for some reason there is some strange compulsion that we must 'make them laugh' or we are not worthy. I'm like why should I feel compelled to be a comedian, it's ridiculous and quite frankly bewildering as to this strange expectation they have of us to do comedy from the get go.
Like the speed dating article shows western women just have a bad attitude, there just often a complete dead end as dating goes through their choice than any other.
it seems like they REALLY want to "check out our packages" for some reason because we're a foreign guy, I just don't understand why?
Fact most British women are not worth dating.
Fact many Belarus and Ukranian women are well worth dating. I'm old school I can charm women in the FSU in the UK they want a metrosexual comedian. I just fit in. I don't buy my way into situations, I don't dress any way special I just start with a sapiosexual relationship and move on from there . Works a treat. In UK all you get is loads of trouble and attitude.
I bet they have no experience of dating f s u before your daughters. So those guys chose with out knowing the options.
Msmob. Your 2 daughters male partners. I bet they have no experience of dating f s u before your daughters. So those guys chose with out knowing the options.
'Fact'? :ROFL:..
Fact is ..that was yet another of your generalisations and my experience of UK ladies extends to marriage and producing 'UK' females... one who is engaged to be married to UK guy and the other in a LTR with a...( shock ) UK guy...
So...according you you...approx 30 million UK chaps should also be 'finding it hard to find ( and keep) a good woman ?
'Fact'? :popcorn:
Are you are referring to dating or marriage material ?...
In your case, you don't seem to have an issue getting a date ( or 'more') .... you find you get cheated on ...
Now, I can't talk, being on my third wife - soon, I hope .... and my preference has ( recently ) been FSU ladies - but I simply DO NOT recognise your / Trench's ( negative ) experience with UK ladies....
Ultimately, we may have chosen unwisely ( badly?).. but isn't that our fault, too ?
Goodness, I'm so tired of chaps blaming the local women .....
Mobe, you're talking about the opposite side of the coin. If a guy can get a UK girl without too much trouble it's less fuss for him. However what they may have to put up with can vary. Some can be decent relationships for the guy, the good ones tend to go early. It's still a case of whether the guy finds out if the relationship is good to them long term and to some extent vice versa. After several years together the relationship can become more telling.
Fact most British women are not worth dating.
Trench - you've not HAD a LTR to compare ...so this is more of your theorised TWADDLE
'Good ones' can choose unwisely and be back on the market ... You seem to be seeking a women who haven't been married or had kids - so by your ;logic' - she'd be taken, right :cluebat:
There now follows a pathetic 'excuse' for Warsaw 'not being in the east' of the nation - which you claimed was 'more Conservative'
In the real world - we refer to nation boundaries as they exist in the present ....
DO know that there's no love lost between Poles and Russians ?
'Thanks' for the 'history lesson' - to cover up your howler .....
There is NO way an EU citizen can be prevented from leaving EU territory because of lack of condoms
Plainly, someone doesn't realise that in progressive 'Catholic' ( Big C ) nations ( Ireland) that the mother should have rights to abort a child of a criminal act ...and rightly so
Better you do some research on your 'internet opponent' - rather than - once more - demonstrating who is the ignorant one ..... I have stated many times on here ( and elsewhere) that the allies ... particularly the UK and France LOST WWII - as I thought we entered the war as Germany failed to withdraw from Poland and 'we' have a treaty to 'protect her integrity '....
The clue was in PIOUS ?.....
Hmm, well, I have two sons, neither of whom has any trouble attracting girls.
I have a lot of male cousins, all but one married to WW. One is single, he is in his forties, has zero problem attracting women, but decided he doesn't want to marry. His current lady, who he's been with for about six years, has never married, though she has two children from a common law relationship. Her daughter is an adult, my cousin is a father figure to her son. They don't live together (his choice).
it seems like they REALLY want to "check out our packages" for some reason because
we're a foreign guy, I just don't understand why?
I went to a speed dating event in Cheltenham met one nice woman and walked her back to her car but the rest of the people in the room really were social miss fits. Internet dating is far better. Many people treat speed dating as an alternative to going to the cinema
I know of many stories of Polish ladies remaining virgins until married at age 30. That is still part of the Catholic culture there. Conversely, there have been many stories about thousands of Russian girls selling their virginity online to the likes of Arab businessmen, and some more than once after having their hymens restored. Obviously, saving themselves for marriage is a very quaint, old-fashioned idea. They have learned they have a marketable commodity. Despite the reports, I only found one high end escort site in Germany offering this service. One would think that according to the law of supply and demand, if supply (online) increases, the prices should drop.
I think this is true for the women James they are in a world where men are two a penny in the west. They can afford to go to speed dating silently amuse themselves with the men they meet and not be at all serious about it. They know they can pick a guy from any speed dating event at any time or anywhere else so they are in no rush to get with anyone. Anywhere you get a gender imbalance it doesn't bode well for most of those that are in the oversupply side. I think immigration rules should be changed in this country to give preference to more women entering to even it out :)
Generally, I think ordinary Poles find Ukrainians more distasteful since none of them learned the real history of the region and instead cite fanciful nationalist propaganda as fact and hero-worship ordinary criminals like Bandera and his cronies in the UPA.
Maybe and maybe not. Polish border guards have certain powers and log certain information. There was a famous case in Poland were some African migrant with HIV/AIDS was knowingly "spreading the love around” freely in Poland. Polish authorities locked him up indefinitely as a threat to public health. He tried to ague that his human rights were bening violated in court, but it didn't work. If they could lock that guy up and throw away the key, I believe that they could deny an exit visa to a car load of “Johns” looking for a good time in Kaliningrad with the tania Tanyas. If nothing else, the word was out that showing their condoms speeded up their exit.
You thought wrong, in large part because WWII is taught incorrectly in Western schools. Britain and France were not really interested in fighting the Germans. If they had been the Czechs would have never been abandoned in 1938, and Germany would have never been permitted to rearm itself before that, etc. Britain and France were colonial powers whose main goal was to prop up their crumbling colonial empires. They were delaying hoping that other nations would enter the war on their side. Central Europe was sacrificed for that from the start and all through the war for that goal. In the end, WWII was won with Western arms, mainly from the U.S. and armies of Slavs unified against a common enemy, who were given no alternative to Stalin when the Poles in exile in London were abandoned by all of their “allies”.
The clue is in CLUELESS.
Mobe, you haven't had recent experience dating UK women.
Guys that have had recent experience dating UK women all day the same as me and James, etc. We can't all be individually coming to the same conclusion or making it up without there being truth to it. Sure there are probably still some nice girls out there but nearly all of those will be heavily inundated with guys at there door.
The pic you showed of your daughter Mobe, well she looks quite attractive looking and the other daughter of yours most probably is as well. On that basis alone they will have no trouble getting guys particularly in their younger years, early twenties, etc. so easy life.
Girls who are even slightly attractive have to be real horrors in the UK to scare away guys. Most UK guys know they have few options and will put up with a hell of a lot until it becomes impossible and out of their hands.
Ah, so in 5.5 years it's all changed ? :cluebat: You keep forgetting I have 2 daughters ..
Trench,
The have perfectly normal boyfriends - not rich parents - and you are totally clueless with women and James keeps getting cheated on ...hardly 'representative' ....
I chose to leave my UK wife - and it wasn't for the usual guff you offer up as 'excuses / reasons' why to avoid UK ladies.....
Particularly in your case ...they are avoiding YOU ...and will continue to do so - until you wise up ...
I have a group of friends many of whom I met through running hot air balloon events for charity , and university. 9 divorces because the wife played away and 1 because the man played away. Even my divorce solicitor said 98 percent of divorces are because of affairs and the other 2 per cent didn't get caught
I have a group of friends many of whom I met through running hot air balloon events for charity , and university. 9 divorces because the wife played away and 1 because the man played away. Even my divorce solicitor said 98 percent of divorces are because of affairs and the other 2 per cent didn't get caught
Radical feminism and multi culturalism has happened in the UK. In UK schoolgirls are taught to compete with boys. In f s u girls are encouraged to be loving and family orientated. UK no sexy women in adverts and Bill boards in Ukraine plenty. On tv no sexy rolls for women Russian tv plenty.
My own wife cheated with almost any man she came into contact with. Another friend his wife was meeting truck drivers in lay bys. Another friend had daughter and 2 nd daughter was by an affair wife would not do DNA test. So many other stories I could tell.
But then I dated Ukraine who had been married 15 years divorced 4 years with a 5 year old son who was still in an affair with an English man for 10 years and left her husband because he was lazy her version. My version he found out is my guess. So maybe ukranain women are just more crafty when playing away.
Regardless, the invasion of Poland is what officially started WWII, withEngland[ BRITAIN ] and France declaring war against Germany and...wait for it...Russia. Also a lot of other counties got involved, but those were the biggies.
Why would the exiled Polish people inEngland[ Britain] turn to Stalin? He invaded their country. Didn't they participated in the Battle of Britain and subsequently on the bombing runs against Germany? And were they not the Polish Armed forces in the West?
The Polish people were not abandoned by the allies during the war, but they were after the war when Poland was given to the Soviets.
Msmob you 're just a wind up merchant who pedals your opinions and when confronted with facts.
Sadly this site does seem to have 2 extremes. Rose tinted glasses wearing old men or the other end of the scale roost v pick up artists. With little information for the second wife seeking man who is trying to read a few posts as some guidance.
In fairness there are quite a few guys on here that are now with theit second wife from the FSU. I think Ukraine is probably not the best place to go if you're serious about finding a second wife.
Sadly this site does seem to have 2 extremes. Rose tinted glasses wearing old men or the other end of the scale roost v pick up artists. With little information for the second wife seeking man who is trying to read a few posts as some guidance.
I missed the UK ( Britain) [ 'England' is but a part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and N. Ireland ] declaring war on the USSR in 1939
You are correct.GB[ Britain / United Kingdom ( GB excludes N.,Ireland - a constituent part of the UK) ] never declared war on the Soviet Union, and vice-versa. Russia was content with just warring wih Poland and the Ballkan countries, and Finland.
Like YOU would know - given your 'successful trips'.....
There's plenty of guys who have married - and are STILL married to UA wives :cluebat:
The rest of your post is pure nonsense - based on your dubious 'criteria'
She was a few years older than me, 42 I think it was and of course at that age
At her age she would have thought herself as only any good to a man for sex
I think a thread on how to date in the FSU while avoiding looking like a sex tourist could be needed here.
Boethius you seem to trust publications more than people.No, but people's perceptions are shaped by their environments and confirmation bias. There is no need for government to lie about the state of marriage.
Radical feminism and multi culturalism has happened in the UK. In UK schoolgirls are taught to compete with boys. In f s u girls are encouraged to be loving and family orientated.ROFL. In Soviet times, the concept of national identity was obliterated. So, when the USSR collapsed, of course expressions of nationalism, which were unnaturally oppressed during Soviet times, reemerged, often, in very ugly ways. This is not a "plus" of the FSU.
UK no sexy women in adverts and Bill boards in Ukraine plenty. On tv no sexy rolls for women Russian tv plenty.
My own wife cheated with almost any man she came into contact with. Another friend his wife was meeting truck drivers in lay bys. Another friend had daughter and 2 nd daughter was by an affair wife would not do DNA test. So many other stories I could tell. But then I dated Ukraine who had been married 15 years divorced 4 years with a 5 year old son who was still in an affair with an English man for 10 years and left her husband because he was lazy her version. My version he found out is my guess. So maybe ukranain women are just more crafty when playing away.As I posted in the past, I could recount almost identical stories in Ukraine. My grandmother, God rest her soul, used to tell similar stories from her village (usually with the obligatory warning of what we'd call "karma" hitting those women on their deathbeds).
In fairness there are quite a few guys on here that are now with theit second wife from the FSU. I think Ukraine is probably not the best place to go if you're serious about finding a second wife. It's basically the playground of the Roosh type of sex tourist, has been for a long time now. I think it's that way as Ukrainian girls and methods of dating are an easy fit for sex tourists. As Krimster describes it can often fall into the category of 'here's a present', 'ok I'll get my knickers off'. Many girls are used to that situation over there from what I read, it's alien to western society but quite usual for them. It's a fun place to go but what with the long established sex tourist and scammer industry makes it harder to find a serious woman and convince her you are serious. Guys have managed to find a wife in Ukraine but it's probably an easier game going to either Belarus or Russia where there tends to be less of both sex tourists and scammers. Best bet in Russia appears to be outside of Moscow & St. Petersburg since sex tourists will rarely travel to the more far flung parts of Russia. With Belarus opening it's door more sex tourists are likely to show up there but to be honest most will probably still head for Ukraine. Ukrainian girls are well socialised into the sex game dating scene so it's easiest territory for them. Ukrainian girls are a lot of fun but unfortunately it's often a struggle to find a serious one.
Well saying what I just said got me thinking Mobers. It occurred to me that the Ukrainian Police Girl I met on the train in Lviv last summer might/probably inadvertently have categories me as a sex tourist. She had paid for my bottle of water even though I had offered. Now someone said afterwards that this was because she saw me as a friend and this is probably the case where a girl buys the guy a drink in Ukraine. However, she was definitely eyeing me up for most of the trip. She was a few years older than me, 42 I think it was and of course at that age and me being a foreigner and all the offer to buy a drink (I had even suggested some place outside the station) can only mean one thing - sex & sex tourist. Me asking to connect on social media, etc probably didn't help either. At her age she would have thought herself as only any good to a man for sex and probably didn't take to the idea of just being another sex tourist's quick shag as she probably saw it.
I think a thread on how to date in the FSU while avoiding looking like a sex tourist could be needed here.
My grandmother was not Russian.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
“you show me women who are economically independent bedding, let alone marrying, men who are poverty stricken and ten to thirty years older than are they, and you will have an equivalency. Until then, you are in denial because you don't want to face some unpleasant truths.”
which truth is that BO?
that Ukrainian women are MUCH more interested in men with money then in men without!!!
who is that truth unpleasant for?
certainly not for me or the men involved!!!!
if women didn't have this preference then men wouldn't use it as leverage, slovo...
there's no equivalency in your meaning , just in the quid pro quo meaning
This is an early contender for dumbest thread of the year.
If J.K. Rowling writes a book Fantastic Slavic Wives and Where to Find Them the likes of James and TC will still think it is a how-to guide even though it is a fantasy novel. There is no saving them from their ignorance.
To Boe's point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
Czech Republic - 20,300 USD
Estonia - 19,700 USD
Latvia- 15,500 USD
Lithuania - 16,500 USD
Hungary - 14,200 USD
Ukraine - 2,600 USD
Russia - 10,800 USD
Belarus - 5,700 USD
The commonality of the WM-UW dyad exists because men want honey and women want money. Well, duh! It takes two to tango. Both fantasize for a better life.
BUT - one does not simply walk intoMordorEastern Europe and find a good woman for marriage. Guys, for your own benefit, drop the delusion that FSUW are better for marriage. It cuts both ways. Some are better, some are much worse. The odds of finding one with your demented views and baggage are low.
Trench
There are MORE men than ladies in Russia until c.50 - according to 2014 data ...
PL-Ease ... stop posting bollox 'conclusions' based on made up data ...
(http://i3.wp.com/www.indexmundi.com/graphs/population-pyramids/russia-population-pyramid-2014.gif)
Forget the stats Mobe..
Most agree that a woman who is not with a guy by her mid twenties has little to no options for her on the table.
Most agree that a woman who is not with a guy by her mid twenties has little to no options for her on the table.
Can we please get back to the topic of the thread here.
:cluebat:
There is no way you should be dating - until you sort your 'issues' with understanding women out - every mistake you make is 'their fault' - not yours ..
Forget the stats Mobe, there are subtleties that don't show up in the stats. Like I say if a girl sees a guy drinking heavily in his late teens she already knows where that one is heading. Most agree that a woman who is not with a guy by her mid twenties has little to no options for her on the table.
Incarcerating an illegal immigrant is one thing, denying rights of a Polish citizen without cause is another. Also, you do realize that Polish citizens do not need an exit visa to leave their country, yes? They do not need a visa at all, to leave.
Interesting. Given the multiple centuries of history of the region, the various wars and conflicts, the suffering of Ukrainians as well as Poles under Stalin's regime....somehow all Polish people forget all that and view Ukrainians as associated with Bandera. Huh.
The sentiment I derived was mostly their resentment of the US for handing over Poland to USSR. In addition to hating the USSR, that is.
Interesting take on history, there. There are studies and discussions on why Chamberlain and the allies allowed Germany to invade Czechoslovakia - perhaps to appease Hitler, perhaps to buy time to build up military strength for the ever escalating conflict. Regardless, the invasion of Poland is what officially started WWII, with England and France declaring war against Germany and...wait for it...Russia. Also a lot of other counties got involved, but those were the biggies.
Armies of Slavs....do you mean the Red Army? The same army that invaded Poland two weeks after Germany in 1939? They were opponents from 1939 to 1941, allies from 1941 to 1945, then opponents again..
Why would the exiled Polish people in England turn to Stalin? He invaded their country.
Didn't they participated in the Battle of Britain and subsequently on the bombing runs against Germany? And were they not the Polish Armed forces in the West?
The Polish people were not abandoned by the allies during the war, but they were after the war when Poland was given to the Soviets.
“Ukrainian” is a relatively new ethnic endonym which grew largely as a peasant movement from the poorest ethnic Ruthenians, i.e., the people of Kievan Rus. What was historically the Ukraine, a lawless border region West of the Dnieper, had to be moved westward and people forced into this new ethnicity by fascists like Bandera's UPA and a brutal dictator like Stalin.
"Ukrainians" as a separate ethnic group existed long before Bandera,
and the idea of a separate Ukrainian nation has its origins from 1798, with publication of Kotlyarevsky's Eneida.
It was the intellectual elite, not peasants, who coalesced around Ukrainian national identity.
Whatever happened to talk of Polish Virgins?
Can we please get back to the topic of the thread here.
Who on Earth wants to marry a virgin??
Let's say the woman is 30 years old. All it tells me is that she spent over half of her
life celibate. Does she actually like sex? Will she want to only have sex once a year
on your birthday?
Will she be creative and active in Bed? Will she want to touch your member with her
__________________ (name any body part here) If she is a virgin she can't even
answer any of these questions. All she knows is what's she's heard about it or watched
on TV, read in a book etc.
Somebody marrying a virgin has to take a HUGE leap of faith that she will like sex and
want to have it anywhere near the frequency that you will like to have it. How do you
know that she won't have a bunch of wierd hang ups about it? Maybe all she knows about
sex is what her cRaZy old aunt told her.
Maybe she only wants to only lay on her back, only while she is ovulating, and only with her
eyes closed tightly and only if you promise to get done with it quickly. Personally I would rather
be with somebody who would jump on the washing machine during the wash cycle and hike up
her skirt having the foresight not to wear panties.
I don't get the attraction, I wouldn't take the risk of going all the way to the altar to find
out if she liked sex three times a day or once a month, believe me too often is just as bad
as not enough.
Who on Earth wants to marry a virgin??
There once was a King Edward who
after knowing the sensation said
"To hell with the Coronation"
let my brother brother be king instead.
Certainly not in Galicia/Red Ruthenia before Bandera. They were all Ruthenians in the last census of Galicia before WWI, and in the first census of the Second Polish Republic in 1921.
So "the idea of a separate Ukrainian nation" originates from either plagiarism or translation of a Russian author into the Poltava dialect of Ruthenian? Really? More likely, "the idea of a separate Ukrainian nation" originates from renaming all of Ruthenia "Ukraine" contrary to previous usage and understanding of the geographic area of the "Ukraina" being the territories near and East of Kiev. Until WWI the people of that area were known as "Little Russians", not Ukrainians.
Some intellectual elites, most notably in Hapsburg Galicia, started the business of renaming Ruthenians "Ukrainians" to divide and conquer the local peasants, but it took WWI and the breakup of the Russian and Austro-Hungarian empires for anyone to coalesce around the idea of a separate "Ukrainian" identity.
Mostly, it was a peasant movement in Galicia before WWI, that spread across the border to the Russian part. I did read somewhere that there where those in Right Bank Ukraine who were actually ethnically Polish, who had embraced the idea of separating from Russia who were associated with the "Ukrainian" movement there before WWI, but no serious person would have considered that possible in a place that completely lacked an industrial base. What became Ukraine was either going to be part of a Russian dominated Soviet Union, or a restored Polish Commonwealth. Nothing else was realistically possible.
I personally dated a former virgin ......
Who on Earth wants to marry a virgin??
I don't think any of those posters have expressed a desire to marry a virgin.
I think when DK posted here, he hooked up with a virgin, but he didn't seek her out because she was a virgin.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
I personally dated a former virgin
Can we please get back to the topic of the thread here. Strider wants to find himself a Polish Virgin no doubt because he wants a nice family life with no carry on along the way. Now this I can relate to,
Who on Earth wants to marry a virgin??
Stupidist post of the week. Young women may stay virgins for many reasons which have nothing to do with their desirability. Just because some tart was able to manipulate you with a little sex doesn't mean that women of moral character do the same.
It is not appropriate to talk about 12 year old girls here.
You may wish to read about Shashkevych, Holovats'kyi, and Vahlevych, three Galicians who began calling for the unity of Ukrainianlands in the 1830's. Or examine the "Ukrainiazation" movements of the 1870's to 1890's, and the "Ukrainization" proponents vs the "Russification" proponents.
There was no "dialiect" that was dissimilar to the Ukrainian spoken in Galicia. Other than modern words the languages were pretty much identical.
Ethnic identity in all of Europe was the result of nation states.
Poles didn't have much better of an idea of ethnic identity.
But, you're missing the point. All movements begin with the elites, nationalism world over, is no different. and in Ukraine, that movement started in the late 1700's in Eastern Ukraine, in the mid 1800's in Galicia. Galician intellectuals started many movements, such as artisan movements, but they did not have the "critical mass" to carry such a movement in the cities. So, they started forming such movements among the peasantry. Those movements often were taken over by local churches.
That's not exactly accurate. The masses had to be "dragged along", however, these were, at their origin, intellectual movements.
The reason Ukrainian national identity, or national consciousness developed, was precisely because Ukraine was divided in two.
the movement was oppressed in Galicia, Ukrainian intellectuals moved to the Russian Empire, and vice versa.
Had there been no such division, coupled with oppression, the results may have been different. There has been a great deal written about this - whole books, in fact. ...
Hmmm, so my better half, who dated more FSUW than have you, chose a WW. He has told all of our children to "forget about that part of the world". After our last trip, when he was hit on by women half his age and recognized that for what it was, he's reiterated that what he refers to as homo Sovieticus attitudes have not yet been eradicated.
the movement was oppressed in Galicia, Ukrainian intellectuals moved to the Russian Empire, and vice versa.
what to do if you strike out in Ukraine?
ok, so guys like bee farmer and mr beard who have “struck out”
what should you do if it happens to you?
is it the end of the road?
HELL NO!!!
you just find a worse FSU “hell hole” than Ukraine
so, let me for a second tell ya about the ‘stans’
Uzbekistan
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Tajikistan
...
what I picked up on right away was that there was actually 3 groups of women in these countries
1. pure Asian
2. pure Russian
3. mix of the two
but these women are SAVAGE, many are used to squat toilets, cooking over a wooden stove outside, this sort of primitiveness
but what they yearn for is the evening dress in a foreign restaurant
they know that in reality the closest they’re ever going to get to this is watching it on TV
but then suddenly you appear... and their eyes go BOING! a western guy here in Tashkent or whatever barren stretch of desolate landscape they call “doma” is called...
they will literally be all over you!!!!
whatcha’ talkin’ bout Willis?
no mythology....
my BFF and business partner in Kyiv bought an elitny house, cost well over $1,000,000+ in one of the “villages” on the main highway from Borispol to downtown Kyiv more than 10 yr ago
now he’s desperately trying to sell it for $200,000 but no takers, so he’ll probably cut more...
there are scores of homeless people camping in the woods around his house
people from Kyiv who have given up on finding work and have no money at all to live on
there are all kinds of people there, old people young people, people with kids...
Ukraine is collapsing, and everyone knows Putin is coming...
and you’re trying to tell me that some guy with a blue passport who owns his own house, drives a Mercedes, has no leverage there???
no leverage?
even though the women there ALL KNOW that a blue passport is a “magic passport” because it has the ability to turn their red one blue as well...
NO ONE wants a RED PASSPORT!!!!
it’s a hideous colour, might as well be “tin” covered...
IMHO, the only possible way to make Ukrainian toilettes worse
would be to put them on the ceiling, i.e. just a hole in the ceiling
this would require the user to perform a handstand to “orient themselves properly”
and hopefully eject with enough force to gain sufficient altitude and trajectory
otherwise gravity will create an em bare ASS ing sight
not much different than having a “faux pax” moment with a squat toilette
Ah, I see that your spouse is a Ruska. They have red passports. Last I saw at the airport, Ukrainians actually have light blue passports not red. They don't want Russian passports, but most would gladly take an E.U. passport, which also happens to be a red passport. So, it is not true to write that no one in Ukraine wants a red passport.
part dva
what to do if you strike out in Ukraine?
ok, so guys like bee farmer and mr beard who have “struck out”
what should you do if it happens to you?
is it the end of the road?
HELL NO!!!
you just find a worse FSU “hell hole” than Ukraine
and go there NEXT time!
fortunately, for you there’s a lot of these places!
I could write volumes and volumes about these places “back in the day” in the late 90s
since my wife, I have not been back to these places, except for Crimea and Moscow, etc.
so, caveat emptor
so, let me for a second tell ya about the ‘stans’
Uzbekistan
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Tajikistan
for some reason these countries, all had small currency (see pic)
with a few exceptions, I’ve only been to big cities in these countries can’t tell ya much about village hunting there, i’ll leave that up to the next generation of hunters to explore...
what I picked up on right away was that there was actually 3 groups of women in these countries
1. pure Asian
2. pure Russian
3. mix of the two
and there is a BIG rivalry between these groups
you will have ALL these women “throwing themselves at you” literally
but, if their fathers, brothers see it and get pissed, be careful where you walk after dark!!
but these women are SAVAGE, many are used to squat toilets, cooking over a wooden stove outside, this sort of primitiveness
but what they yearn for is the evening dress in a foreign restaurant
they know that in reality the closest they’re ever going to get to this is watching it on TV
but then suddenly you appear... and their eyes go BOING! a western guy here in Tashkent or whatever barren stretch of desolate landscape they call “doma” is called...
they will literally be all over you!!!!
some of these people especially in Kazakhstan have no idea about “personal space” women will just come right up to you from out of no where and start smiling and talking to you, trying to speak English with you, etc, but they just get “right in your face”, you can’t ignore them and turn and walk away, they also seem extremely animated during their discussions, with their fingers frequently poking you for emphasis in whatever point they're trying to make
if you are ever alone with these women and give them even one drink their clothes will be off and they will be "flashing you" posing and making suggestive eye contact
you have NO CHOICE but to immediately disrobe and provide them with immediate sexual gratification, if you don't they will be EXTREMELY PISSED!!!
you literally will have NO CHOICE but to have sex with them!!!
but, if you strike out in Ukraine, this is where you should go, you really won't have to do much, just stand some place, like where they keep the mules next to the big market for example...
There is also at least one internet site specializing in videos of girls losing their virginity,
and most of the girls there are FSU girls. You could look it up...
There are sites where they say the girl is a virgin and she has a tramp stamp, nipple rings
and vaginal piercings, I tend to discount their veracity, I'm just skeptical that way.
Let's all leave our historical revisionist 'Strider' to his 'history' and perversions
MEGA-sad
“Nah, Putin is on record as offering Ukraine's...”
well, if Putin said so, gotta be true then right, phewww big relief when Ukrainians here about it
Putin wants Poland to commit troops to Ukraine. These were the signals they sent us. … We have known how they think for years. We have known this is what they think for years. This was one of the first things that Putin said to my prime minister, Donald Tusk, [soon to be President of the European Council] when he visited Moscow. He went on to say Ukraine is an artificial country and that Lwow is a Polish city and why don't we just sort it out together. Luckily Tusk didn't answer. He knew he was being recorded.http://www.businessinsider.com/putin-offered-to-partition-ukraine-with-poland-2014-10
“ He thought the young girls would throw themselves at him. “
too bad for him, I OTOH have bruises from the encounters...
“Sounds like your friend got played big time. Pretty girls aren't the only people running scams in Ukraine to swindle foreigners out of money.”
my friend was born in kyiv, and has lived there his whole life
he wasn’t scammed, this just reflects the decline in real estate there over the past 12 yr
and this decline is about the same ratio as the decline of the UAH against the USD
There are sites where they say the girl is a virgin and she has a tramp stamp, nipple rings
and vaginal piercings, I tend to discount their veracity, I'm just skeptical that way.
What remains true, is that the West, including Britain, never cared about “self-determination of peoples” in what became Ukraine, and Belarus. It is not surprising that our Orangist Limey here has such contempt for the people of the region sold out to Stalin at the end of WWII.
Well then, did Caesar conquer France or Gaul?He wrote about his conquest in a book called "De Bello Gallico" (About the Gallic War).
The area of Gaul would become France in another era centuries later.Conquered in the 6th century by romanised Rhineland Franks. Therefore their cultural assimilation into romanised Gaul was not difficult - they acquired the local latinised language and only contributed phonetically what was thenceforth erroneously called the French R sound, which is actually a Germanic sound ;).
but historians don't consider it correct to say Caesar conquered France.Maybe only those poorly educated historicallly ::).
Sighs,
He really isn't that observant this 'Strider' ....
Anyway, The Blue UA passports (with chips) mean visa free travel to the EU for up to 90 days ....
'I am an Ulster PROTESTANT and quite happy to have the shops closed on Sundays )
Orangist: A person who espouses Protestant political principles and the Protestant cause, especially in Northern Ireland; = "Orangeman".http://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/orangist
1/ As far as I am aware, no member of my immediate family...Parents, Grandparents, siblings or cousins - was EVER an Orangeman
He wrote about his conquest in a book called "De Bello Gallico" (About the Gallic War).Conquered in the 6th century by romanised Rhineland Franks. Therefore their cultural assimilation into romanised Gaul was not difficult - they acquired the local latinised language and only contributed phonetically what was thenceforth erroneously called the French R sound, which is actually a Germanic sound ;). Maybe only those poorly educated historicallly ::).
Still good news for the UK is that when we leave the EU our passports are going back to blue :D
So that will bring us in line with the US with blue being the most desirable passport colour :)
http://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/orangist
So did msmob convert to Protestantism and anger the family? The rest of the family supports King Francis II as the legitimate King of the United Kingdomof Great Britain and Northern Ireland?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz,_Duke_of_Bavaria#Succession_rights
They must have some interesting family gatherings.!
:ROFL:
This troll still can't say what I have “revised” other than communist propaganda.
I don't know that FSU women ever all wanted to go to North America. The idea of uprooting themselves and moving far away from all that is familiar to them was never that appealing to them. Many would have been happy to find a German or Scandinavian spouse so they could return home to see the family easier. Things might change if they have a friend or relative in your home country, but then be careful that she is really interested in long term marriage, and not just a ticket out.
Is there ANYTHING you can write about that isn't so mockable whendepending'defending' your 'stances' ?
My great, great grandparents were "Ruthenians". They referred to themselves as "rus" They also referred to themselves as "Ukrainians". That was in the mid 1800's, and it was not unusual at the time, nor later, up to the 1920's.
I know a lot of Ukrainians who emigrated to Canada from Galicia, from the first immigrant families to after WWII. They all referred to themselves as "Ukrainian", and those that came in the interwar period, or as WWII refugees, had the highest level of national consciousness of all - probably more so than Ukrainians in Ukraine today. So this idea being propagated that "Ukrainians" did not self identify as such is nonsense.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
Yeah, I always got the impression our Mobe could be an British MI5/IRA commander double agent who went super grass for both sides and then even confused himself what side he was on, commited to a psychiatric mental hospital from which he prompty eascaped to Cyprus to do iffy Saterlite TV set up in return for questionable Russian language tuition, lol :cheesy:
Well, he plainly isn't ethnically Irish.
The “weakness of the Irish” is well known, but they aren't known for having such psychiatric problems or personality disorders. He certainly doesn't sing the Skye Boat Song and get all choked up thinking about Bonnie Prince Charlie like a proper Jacobist. No Orangist would do that.
From my search of the records at Ellis Island, only my great-grandfather's first cousin, (whom I remember as he died when I was a teen-ager, and he was not the only family member I remember who was born in Galicia), had declared that he was a “Ukrainian” upon arrival in 1907. He was just a teen himself at the time escaping mandatory military service at 21. What is curious is that both his mother, and his step-mother/aunt (the aunt married the father when the mother died in childbirth or something similar as was the custom) were both Roman Catholics, and therefore according the “experts” in academia, both ethnic Poles. So “Uncle Alex” as we called him, declared himself to be a Ukrainian, despite the fact that his “mother tongue” was plainly Polish. My cousins on that side of the family use Polish words to refer to family members, and my great uncle told me that his parents used Ukrainian words mixed into their dialect of Polish.
Interesting. Uncle Alex declared himself "Ukrainian" even though he was probably Polish. He also said his parents used Ukrainian words.
If "Ukraine" was not in the consciousness of people like Uncle Alex and his parents, why did he refer to it? Did he just make it up from his own imagination, like Tolkien did with Middle Earth?
Apparently many Ukrainian historians have neglected that ethnogenisis and the debate about creating the modern Ukrainian language perhaps because the intellectual elite to which Boethius refers had much of that discussion in Polish!
A good book on the early originals of national consciousness in the region is John-Paul Himka's Galician Villagers and the National Movement in the Nineteenth Century.
LOL. All of the historians I read are leaders in their fields, and are not "Ukrainian". All of them can read Russian, Ukrainian, Polish, usually French and German.
As a historian Himka was a Marxist in the 1970s-80s...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John-Paul_Himka
...Himka is of mixed ethnic background, Ukrainian (on father's side) and Italian (on mother's). Initially he wanted to become a Greek Catholic priest and studied at St. Basil Seminary in Stamford, Connecticut. However, due to the radicalization of his political views to the left by the end of the 1960s he did not pursue that vocation.
Really?
Turnpike origin:What on earth is UK English?
One faced a turned pike - sharp bladed 'pike' on a shaft ( stick) until one paid up - upon which one's way was 'clear' and the barrier raised
They are toll roads in UK English
Is this where I mention that I use Irish Spring soap when showering?
or is it off topic?
NOTE: The word Irish is posted which means that Moby has an opinion
AND a correction.
Pike in UK grow to 46 lbs. As a kid we used to catch 25 lb ones all the time. We had aluminium jacks to open their mouths to get the lures back. I've seen them pull down malard ducks and bite fiberglass lures in half.
It is good soap. Green color. It's supposed to smell like Ireland. I don't know what Ireland smells like.
When Moby gets here I'll give him a sniff and let you know if it does. ;D
I actually do use the soap because I like it and not because I'm 1/64 Ballaghnatrillick Irish on
Mothers side and and 1/32 Cloontyprocklis Irish on my Fathers side.
As a kid it was a boys own adventure to go pike fishing in the river as once you caught and landed the beast then you had to get your lure back and let the monster go. I'm told by friends they taste like mud and are full of bones
Where I live, northern pike (jackfish) are viewed as a junk fish. But foreigners view them as a delicacy. They don't taste like mud, they have a delicate flavour. However, I agree, they have a lot of fine bones.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
In a msmob moment I must inform you that caviar only comes from sturgeon fish. The rest is just roe.
I should point out this entire thread is becoming fishy and it has nothing to do with virginity.
In a msmob moment I must inform you that caviar only comes from sturgeon fish. The rest is just roe.
Thank GOD for that - because it's as 'Oirish as DaveNY is not Sting 123 ;)
You're feuding with at least 25% of the active forum most of the time and today it's
DaveNY's turn, but I'm not going to be dragged into it. I looked at the Member list and
there wasn't any Sting 123 listed. Are you doing your cross fora scrapping again?
next thing ya know someone will say that I'm actually Russian and work for George Soros, hahahahaha
Unless virgins smell like fish.
Well after a skim of the how to use SoP section it looks interesting and not too hard.
So do you use separate SoP classes, converted standard Pathfinder classes, or both?