It appears you have not registered with our community. To register please click here ...

!!

Welcome to Russian Women Discussion - the most informative site for all things related to serious long-term relationships and marriage to a partner from the Former Soviet Union countries!

Please register (it's free!) to gain full access to the many features and benefits of the site. Welcome!

+-

Author Topic: The Fate of The DNR/LNR "Republics"  (Read 29906 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline JohnDearGreen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1022
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • It's 5 o'clock somewhere...
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married > 10 years
  • Trips: 4 - 10
Re: The Fate of The DNR/LNR "Republics"
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2017, 05:31:40 PM »
After going into hiding in Russia when other members of his clan were axed, 
"Ataman of Almighty Don Host" Kozitsyn has returned.   3 buses
with 100 cossacks of the "Don Host Army" arrived near Lugansk.

http://qha.com.ua/en/events-incidents/russia-once-again-deployed-weapons-and-mercenaries-in-donbas/140343/

http://sra4.d3.ru/rossiiane-ataman-kozitsyn-prikazyvaet-vam-snova-ekhat-na-voinu-1299407/?sorting=rating

« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 06:17:38 AM by SANDRO43 »

Offline JayH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5685
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Looking > 5 years
  • Trips: > 10
A Blunder And A Crime
« Reply #51 on: April 06, 2017, 08:37:36 PM »
In many links I post --the words re enough -this is such a case


A Blunder And A Crime


They thought it would be quick and dirty.

They thought it would be easy.

They thought they'd have the support of the local population.

And they thought they could pull it off with plausible deniability.

But they were wrong on all counts.

Three years ago today, Russia's effort to dismember a country began in earnest when Kremlin-backed mobs and militias stormed and occupied government buildings in Donetsk, Luhansk, and other eastern Ukrainian cities.

Three years ago today, Russia's war in the Donbas began.

And as a result, nearly 10,000 people are dead, approximately 23,000 are wounded, and almost 1.8 million are displaced.


Russia's invasion of eastern Ukraine was a colossal miscalculation.

The Kremlin believed that language and ethnicity translated into political loyalty.

Vladimir Putin's regime thought Ukraine's Russophone was automatically pro-Moscow; that not just Donetsk and Luhansk, but Kharkiv, Odesa, and Mariupol as well would fall like dominoes.

They were dreaming about Novorossia and a new Russian Empire.

And they thought it would be as smooth and as easy as Crimea.

It was a mistake and a crime driven by hubris.

And it was a mistake and a crime that Ukraine is still paying the price for.

Three years after Russia's invasion of eastern Ukraine, the Kremlin is desperately trying to change the subject. And we shouldn't let them.

http://www.rferl.org/a/daily-vertical-transcript-blunder-and-crime/28414073.html
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Gator

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16987
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Married 5-10 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: A Blunder And A Crime
« Reply #52 on: April 06, 2017, 08:54:52 PM »


And as a result, nearly 10,000 people are dead, approximately 23,000 are wounded, and almost 1.8 million are displaced.   


That is one month of casualties in Syria.  The world has not shown much concern about Syria, so why would the world care about Ukraine. 



Offline Anotherkiwi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4089
  • Country: nz
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Looking 1-2 years
  • Trips: 1 - 3
Re: A Blunder And A Crime
« Reply #53 on: April 07, 2017, 03:56:07 AM »
That is one month of casualties in Syria.  The world has not shown much concern about Syria, so why would the world care about Ukraine.

Perhaps the world does not care so much about Ukraine, but many on this forum would, simply because of family ties.  Most here care as much about Syria as they do about South Sudan and the atrocities being committed there - as well as the drought which is sweeping across many parts of Africa to a degree far worse than any swarm of locusts.

Offline JayH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5685
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Looking > 5 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: The Fate of The DNR/LNR "Republics"
« Reply #54 on: July 10, 2017, 02:25:24 PM »
Important to note-even if the %  who consider themselves "russian" it does not mean they want to be part of the Russian Federation or ruled by Russia.
The east is at a another crucial stage right now-- with the ambiguities of the Trump non decisions having the potential to embolden Putin.At the worst -Russia is hoping to keep Ukraine divided-- and from the wests perspective- that should not be allowed to happen.
Meanwhile ,Russia continues looting eastern Ukraine as hard as it can --the aim -if Russia is forced out-- to leave nothing of substance behind them.


Almost 70% of Donbass Residents Consider Themselves to Be Ukrainians - Opinion Poll


http://vchasnoua.com/en/trending/9-almost-70-of-donbass-residents-consider-themselves-to-be-ukrainians-opinion-poll
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline msmob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10618
  • Country: ie
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Married 0-2 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: The Fate of The DNR/LNR "Republics"
« Reply #55 on: July 10, 2017, 08:04:12 PM »
Important to note-even if the %  who consider themselves "russian" it does not mean they want to be part of the Russian Federation or ruled by Russia.

So, JayH

The maj. of people of Donbas are actually subjugated to the extent that they really want to be ruled by Kyiv ?




Offline Boethius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3072
  • Country: 00
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: No Selection
Re: The Fate of The DNR/LNR "Republics"
« Reply #56 on: July 10, 2017, 08:15:54 PM »
The poll is from the Razumkov Centre, which is not a nationalist organization.


No part of Donbas was majority ethnically Russian, other than the city of Donetsk, and even that was not by an overwhelming margin.


I think most people did not want war, they were just trapped by circumstances.  Then, you have those who profit from the lack of stability, or becoming bosses. 
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline jone

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7281
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Committed > 1 year
  • Trips: > 10
Re: The Fate of The DNR/LNR "Republics"
« Reply #57 on: July 10, 2017, 08:31:34 PM »
I think the majority of people in Donetsk are whatever nationality Akhmetov tells them they are. LOL.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline JayH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5685
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Looking > 5 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: The Fate of The DNR/LNR "Republics"
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2017, 07:30:01 PM »
Not confined to this thread --but important numbers see and the confirmation of a substantial shift.

Only 5.5% of Ukrainian citizens consider themselves "Russian" – survey
The study also showed that the overwhelming majority of respondents (81.8%) identify themselves as citizens of their country, Ukraine.

Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/society/2022811-only-55-of-ukrainian-citizens-consider-themselves-russian-survey.html
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Anotherkiwi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4089
  • Country: nz
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Looking 1-2 years
  • Trips: 1 - 3
Re: The Fate of The DNR/LNR "Republics"
« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2017, 05:47:45 PM »
Not confined to this thread --but important numbers see and the confirmation of a substantial shift.

Only 5.5% of Ukrainian citizens consider themselves "Russian" – survey
The study also showed that the overwhelming majority of respondents (81.8%) identify themselves as citizens of their country, Ukraine.

Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/society/2022811-only-55-of-ukrainian-citizens-consider-themselves-russian-survey.html

The problem with this survey, JayH, as with any other of its type, is that it is forced to exclude residents of Donbas and Crimea from its scope simply because of the logistical problems involved in getting the appropriate data.  Much as I would like these numbers to be reflected in the occupied territories as well, the reality is that, with those people included, the 5.5% (as one example) would probably jump to 15 or 20% - especially with the resentment that many of those people feel towards Kyiv and the current government.

Offline JayH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5685
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Looking > 5 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: The Fate of The DNR/LNR "Republics"
« Reply #60 on: July 12, 2017, 06:09:10 PM »
The problem with this survey, JayH, as with any other of its type, is that it is forced to exclude residents of Donbas and Crimea from its scope simply because of the logistical problems involved in getting the appropriate data.  Much as I would like these numbers to be reflected in the occupied territories as well, the reality is that, with those people included, the 5.5% (as one example) would probably jump to 15 or 20% - especially with the resentment that many of those people feel towards Kyiv and the current government.

See post a few up thread.
An observation--it is the shift of Ukrainian identity  of note here.  The comparison of pre Maidan surveys on the same questions.
The Donbas  did not have the opportunity to see a "new" Ukraine emerging ( the same comment applies to Crimea) and have not had the exposure to it.
Pretty simple question--if the Russian rule is so great ( it's not) why have they worked so hard to prevent Ukrainian media being seen,heard,read  etc on Crimea and in eastern Ukraine?
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Anotherkiwi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4089
  • Country: nz
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Looking 1-2 years
  • Trips: 1 - 3
Re: The Fate of The DNR/LNR "Republics"
« Reply #61 on: July 12, 2017, 06:29:20 PM »
An observation--it is the shift of Ukrainian identity  of note here.  The comparison of pre Maidan surveys on the same questions.

Of course that's true, but pre-Maidan surveys all included responses from the now-occupied territories.  As I wrote above, including statistics from those areas NOW would probably show almost the same responses as those from (for example) five years ago.

The Donbas  did not have the opportunity to see a "new" Ukraine emerging ( the same comment applies to Crimea) and have not had the exposure to it.

Doesn't matter - they've read/seen/heard about it through the media that they DO have access to, and most don't like it.  Even the most fervent Ukrainian supporters on this forum (you and Boethius as examples) agree that the Poroshenko government and its allied oligarchs are just as corrupt as any government before them.  The difference is that change is at least happening in some core aspects of Ukrainian life, even if it is at a glacial pace.

Pretty simple question--if the Russian rule is so great ( it's not) why have they worked so hard to prevent Ukrainian media being seen,heard,read  etc on Crimea and in eastern Ukraine?

Pretty obvious, I would have thought - they don't want the locals contaminated by opinions and ideas which run counter to their own, even if the differences have been observed first-hand.  Oh, wait - that sounds just like the Soviet Union!  :crackwhip:

Offline JayH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5685
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Looking > 5 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: The Fate of The DNR/LNR "Republics"
« Reply #62 on: July 12, 2017, 06:51:10 PM »
Of course that's true, but pre-Maidan surveys all included responses from the now-occupied territories.  As I wrote above, including statistics from those areas NOW would probably show almost the same responses as those from (for example) five years ago.

Doesn't matter - they've read/seen/heard about it through the media that they DO have access to, and most don't like it.  Even the most fervent Ukrainian supporters on this forum (you and Boethius as examples) agree that the Poroshenko government and its allied oligarchs are just as corrupt as any government before them.  The difference is that change is at least happening in some core aspects of Ukrainian life, even if it is at a glacial pace.

Pretty obvious, I would have thought - they don't want the locals contaminated by opinions and ideas which run counter to their own, even if the differences have been observed first-hand.  Oh, wait - that sounds just like the Soviet Union!  :crackwhip:

I do not agree that it is "just as corrupt as any government before them"
My major point-- there has been a huge shift all across Ukraine that people see Ukraine differently than pre Maidan -- and the Donbass and Crimean  people did not & have not had the opportunity to see that unfold.
Also please note -- the attempts of Russia to destabilise & seize Ukraine-- and all that has and is going on.

AK -- Ukraine has seen and is seeing really significant change in so many different areas  -- it is quite different to Ukraine of a decade ago.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 06:54:34 PM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Anotherkiwi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4089
  • Country: nz
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Looking 1-2 years
  • Trips: 1 - 3
Re: The Fate of The DNR/LNR "Republics"
« Reply #63 on: July 13, 2017, 06:13:40 PM »
I do not agree that it is "just as corrupt as any government before them"

Then why do so many people seem to have trouble accepting your version of this concept?  Actuality and perception obviously do not always agree.  I'm NOT trying to knock your position - it's just that so much of what comes out of Ukraine indicates that there hasn't been any sort of major shift (yet) in the governmental-oligarchy duopoly.  The "ordinary" people seem to be getting on with their lives as best they can DESPITE the government - not by embracing it.  I would love to see real examples showing that I'm wrong.

My major point-- there has been a huge shift all across Ukraine that people see Ukraine differently than pre Maidan -- and the Donbass and Crimean  people did not & have not had the opportunity to see that unfold.
Also please note -- the attempts of Russia to destabilise & seize Ukraine-- and all that has and is going on.

Don't worry - I'm certainly not arguing with you on this point.

AK -- Ukraine has seen and is seeing really significant change in so many different areas  -- it is quite different to Ukraine of a decade ago.

Again, I'm not arguing against this point.  However, it again comes back to perception - very little of this change ever makes in into Western media, and I certainly don't have the time (or a reason) to go searching through Ukrainian news websites.

Offline JayH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5685
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Looking > 5 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: The Fate of The DNR/LNR "Republics"
« Reply #64 on: July 13, 2017, 07:10:44 PM »
Then why do so many people seem to have trouble accepting your version of this concept?  Actuality and perception obviously do not always agree.  I'm NOT trying to knock your position - it's just that so much of what comes out of Ukraine indicates that there hasn't been any sort of major shift (yet) in the governmental-oligarchy duopoly.  The "ordinary" people seem to be getting on with their lives as best they can DESPITE the government - not by embracing it.  I would love to see real examples showing that I'm wrong.

Don't worry - I'm certainly not arguing with you on this point.

Again, I'm not arguing against this point.  However, it again comes back to perception - very little of this change ever makes in into Western media, and I certainly don't have the time (or a reason) to go searching through Ukrainian news websites.

Trying to avoid being too pedantic -- but-the people in general have and are supporting the government-- and many people are doing it very hard. The government is committed to changing so much at once( or at least in a relatively short time) and the ordinary people are paying a price for it. Basic costs have risen dramatically --utilities,food etc and incomes have not risen in line with that.
Despite that --people want and are demanding reform.
   
Regardless of what others may say --it is all too easy to say nothing has changed -- without looking at a much wider picture. The reality is a lot has changed-- and is changing.
   
None of that is to say corruption is not a problem  -it is -- but-- in many areas it is being addressed . That would not happen previously.Compared to Russia-- where corruption is entrenched with no hope of change --Ukraine is a shining light of change.
Last week Tillerson met with a young group of reformers and anti- corruption groups.It is an area that the US  ( & EU) is in a position to help help dramatically on the corruption issue -- and I am hopeful that Tillerson can see the way to do it.

   I have stated ( & written) many times that the west ( particularly the US) should tie military aid  to a super serious all out internal war on Ukrainian corruption & western levels of law and enforcement  EG -- give Ukraine the support & the weapons it needs to drive the Russians out of Ukraine and guarantee Ukrainian sovereignty  --in exchange for real laws and enforcement  of corruption issues.
A sledge hammer is need to force this type of change in Ukraine.

   Many "opinions" get stuck in a point in time and do not accommodate change very well. When people quote relatives ,friends etc that can be a very tiny % of ideas being repeated-often -people are too close to see bigger picture change going on or understand it. :)

     It should never be forgotten that Ukraine has suffered serious cost in defending itself against the Russian invasion. Putin's intent was to try and send Ukraine broke -- to make that cost of ridding itself of Russia so great that it would collapse. Despite that cost and the retardation of Ukraine--it has moved forward economically .
     Without that war-- the foreign investment Ukraine badly needs would have happened and Ukrainian people would be getting a real benefit in improving their lives. After Maidan--I often said that it would take 10 years to see any real progress ( much to many of my Ukrainian friends horror ) !! -- and now 3 1/2 years on -I think the hardest part is now behind Ukraine.


Tusk warned Ukraine

We clearly see that you have no external enemy to overcome, you are very strong. But you can fail by themselves. That's why you should in any case maintain unity and avoid internal conflicts," - he said.

He said: "If you continue to be so determined, brave and consistent, like during the Revolution of dignity and sustain reform and do not give up, you realize their dreams and achieve goals."

The President Petro Poroshenko said that Ukraine's strategic objectives - the development of a competitive economy, integrated into Europe.

"Our strategic goal - promoting Ukraine as a successful European state with strong public institutions and competitive economy integrated into Europe," - he said.
http://ua.interfax.com.ua/
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 09:55:39 PM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline msmob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10618
  • Country: ie
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Married 0-2 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: The Fate of The DNR/LNR "Republics"
« Reply #65 on: July 13, 2017, 09:55:06 PM »
.Compared to Russia-- where corruption is entrenched with no hope of change --Ukraine is a shining light of change.


If only .... endemic corruption is a blight in many FSU countries and despite my best hopes of this taking a generation to fade - recent encounters - in Russia - demonstrate it continues BIG time ..

As for Ukraine - when we stop seeing those who are fighting corruption resigning or being fitted up - I'll believe you ....Good people are trying and failing in this battle :(

 In the meantime your optimism is misguided. As you claim to know Ukraine, so well - this can only mean willfully, so....  Me? I prefer more realistic appraisals ..dated 13th July 2017 ...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-eu-summit-idUSKBN19Y1OA


Corruption undermining Ukraine's progress, EU's Juncker says

Offline Anotherkiwi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4089
  • Country: nz
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Looking 1-2 years
  • Trips: 1 - 3
Re: The Fate of The DNR/LNR "Republics"
« Reply #66 on: July 14, 2017, 10:50:40 PM »
In the meantime your optimism is misguided. As you claim to know Ukraine, so well - this can only mean willfully, so....  Me? I prefer more realistic appraisals ..dated 13th July 2017 ...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-eu-summit-idUSKBN19Y1OA

As a side note, wouldn't it be wonderful if the world media started using Ukrainian names and spellings for Ukrainian places, instead of Russian ones?  Nice big photo takes pride of place in this article, clearly showing that the conference is in KYIV - not Kiev.

I'll be the first to admit that, when I first went to Ukraine, Russian was simpler because I actually knew a bit of the language, compared with no Ukrainian.  With what has happened since, though, I would like to do my miniscule bit and stand up for Ukrainian to be properly recognised on the world stage.

Offline SANDRO43

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10687
  • Country: it
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: None (yet)
Re: The Fate of The DNR/LNR "Republics"
« Reply #67 on: July 15, 2017, 07:35:19 AM »
As a side note, wouldn't it be wonderful if the world media started using Ukrainian names and spellings for Ukrainian places, instead of Russian ones?  Nice big photo takes pride of place in this article, clearly showing that the conference is in KYIV - not Kiev.
Might be confusing to people who have been used for a long time to the old spelling, and puzzling to some: how does one pronounce KYIV ::) ;)?

A different matter when toponyms are changed completely - like Mumbay, Myanmar, etc.
Milan's "Duomo"

Offline msmob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10618
  • Country: ie
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Married 0-2 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: The Fate of The DNR/LNR "Republics"
« Reply #68 on: July 15, 2017, 11:53:52 PM »
how does one pronounce KYIV ::) ;)?



I know your Q was tongue in cheek, Sandro - but the difference is the kee yev ( Russian ) and Kee yiv Ukrainian

AK, makes a good point re UA place names.

Offline Boethius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3072
  • Country: 00
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: No Selection
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Anotherkiwi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4089
  • Country: nz
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Looking 1-2 years
  • Trips: 1 - 3
Re: The Fate of The DNR/LNR "Republics"
« Reply #70 on: August 08, 2017, 05:19:12 PM »
An interesting article from Der Spiegel.


http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/little-russia-pro-russian-separatists-harden-split-from-ukraine-a-1159642.html

That is much scarier that I expected but, of course, the regime in the so-called "Republics," as well as that in Russia, would be trying to make very sure that this sort of news didn't leak out.

Offline ML

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11663
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married > 10 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: The Fate of The DNR/LNR "Republics"
« Reply #71 on: August 08, 2017, 08:19:15 PM »
I know your Q was tongue in cheek, Sandro - but the difference is the kee yev ( Russian ) and Kee yiv Ukrainian

Actually Ukrainians pronounce it something like 'cave.'
A beautiful woman is pleasant to look at, but it is easier to live with a pleasant acting one.

Offline JayH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5685
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Looking > 5 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: The Fate of The DNR/LNR "Republics"
« Reply #72 on: September 01, 2017, 05:20:17 PM »
As the potential for a "settlement" gets closer in eastern Ukraine it becomes more important to revisit some actual facts about what actually happened in eastern Ukraine.
A lot of information that clarifies what was a confusing time ( to many) is now available -- and many opinions formed previously need rethinking.
Of particular concern now --is the idea that the western countries will accept the tokenism of Russian withdrawal in the east and ease or remove sanctions that were put in place because of the Russian invasion of the Crimea .It is more important than ever that the pressure on Russia is increased --not eased.
The people of Ukraine have and are paying a fearful price because of the Russian invasions,and interference in Ukraine.Putin & Russia's intent was ( at the very least) to make Ukraine pay a really heavy price for it's independence and creation of a democracy on Russia's doorstep.
It is in the worlds best interest -- and in particular --the USofA's best interest to support Ukraine -- and help in every way possible.

The article below touches a few points -- a key one is that despite being predominantly Russian speaking -the population in the east saw,and does see themselves as Ukrainian . Note the poll below-- was taken back in a period of turmoil and uncertainty.

"A poll held on 8-16 April 2014 by the Kyiv Institute of Sociology revealed that 41.1% of the Donetsk residents supported a decentralized unified state, 38.4% supported a federalized Ukraine, 27.5% were in favor of seceding from Ukraine to join Russia, 10.6% supported the current unitary structure with no change."

Donetsk separatist referendum organizer: “Return to Ukraine is inevitable, Donbas is Ukraine”

The results of Donetsk referendum were known in advance, on 7 May 2014, 5 days before the referendums,
the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) published a taped conversation of Russian far-right leader Alexandr Barkashov in which he requested 89% in favor of self-rule in Donetsk from Dmytro Boitsov, one of the separatist leaders. The requested results (89% for the “the Act of State Self-rule of the DNR”) matched with announced (89.07%).


http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/09/02/orchestrator-of-donetsk-pro-russian-referendum-return-to-ukraine-is-inevitable-the-donbas-is-ukraine/
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5685
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Looking > 5 years
  • Trips: > 10
Putin’s private army in Donbas
« Reply #73 on: October 18, 2017, 06:00:56 PM »

At the time of the Crimean invasion and the later occupation in eastern Ukraine the Kremlin denied Russian involvement-- despite it being obvious to most. Even here on this forum the Putin disciples and trolls argued that it was not Russia!
The actual methodology is now much clearer .

The SecurityAt Service of Ukraine (SBU) released a report – the operation in Crimea, the shooting down of an IL-76 above Luhansk Airport, and the capture of Debaltseve, a crucial railway hub that Russian-separatist forces wrestled from the Ukrainian army in the winter of 2015  – were all done with the participation of a Russian Private Military Company called Wagner. Wagner is President Putin’s private army, used in places where no laws exist.



Putin’s private army in Donbas


On 7 October, the head of the Security Service of Ukraine Vasyl Hrytsak unveiled a sensational investigation into the part Wagner played in the majority of Russian military operations on Ukrainian soil from 2014 to 2015, beginning with the occupation of Crimea. The Wagner company, according to the information provided by the SBU and published by Russian journalists, consists of between 2,000 and 5,000 well-trained professional soldiers, as well as tanks, howitzers, and Multiple Launch Rocket Systems. They train in a special, secret training ground in Rostov Oblast. According to Russian journalists, Dmytro Utkin answers to only one person: the businessman Yevhen Prihozhyn, who is Putin’s restaurateur. Appart from restaurants, Prihozhyn is connected to entities which secured a monopoly on provisions for the Russian army, and also with firms which defend Syrian oil and gas extraction. Prihozhyn takes for himself a quarter of the extracted fuel.

http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/10/19/wagner-mercenaries-what-we-know-about-putins-private-army-in-donbas/
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5685
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Looking > 5 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: The Fate of The DNR/LNR "Republics"
« Reply #74 on: December 25, 2018, 01:57:02 PM »
Comment on forum has often been made in a negative way about the Donbas citizens and their allegiances -- the article illustrates why it is impossible to know what people think -- criticism of the occupying forces is a fast way to jail.
While the west continues appeasing Putin  and leaves Ukraine to face the might of Russia alone it is going to get worse for Ukraine -- and Ukrainians.

Blogger who wrote of MH17 and Russia’s undeclared war against Ukraine held prisoner in occupied Donetsk


In one article, Halaziuk described how, on the third anniversary of the downing on 17 July 2014 of Malaysian airliner MH17, he walked almost 20 kilometres in the direction of the place where the plane came down and left flowers “for all Ukrainians who bow their heads in remembrance of the slain passengers of MH17”

Halaziuk writes of how it has finally been established that MH17 was downed by a BUK missile brought to Ukraine from the Russian Federation.  He writes that residents of Torez (which Ukraine has now formally renamed Chystyakove) had seen the BUK missile carrier being carried through the entire city.

Such honesty is impossible in the so-called ‘republics’ and it was only a matter of time before he was ‘denounced’.

It is simply impossible that he did not understand the danger he faced and it is worth recalling Halaziuk’s words about the situation in occupied Donbas.

“I am tormented by a feeling of pain for those citizens of Ukraine who have remained in occupied Donbas.  Now something terrible is happening, the wholesale blaming of people who live there, the claiming that they are traitors. Yet you can’t paint everybody with the same brush and there are Ukrainian patriots who live there and, risking their life, continue to fight. … There are more and more voices heard saying that you need to create a blockade against these people, shut them off, not let them through… This is very unfair.  Many people are not in a position to leave and you can’t ignore them, abandon them there.”

Halaziuk went on to mention those who had been ‘zombified’ by the constant flow of Russian propaganda.

The uses of propaganda were well understood by Russia who ensured that all Ukrainian channels were blocked as soon as militants seized a particular area in Donbas.  Since then most free Internet channels have also been blocked.

In occupied Crimea, Russia is currently using arrests on fabricated charges, torture, and other forms of pressure to try to silence those civic activists and journalists who tell the truth about what is happening under Russian occupation.

In the so-called Donbas ‘republics’, people like Halaziuk and Aseyev, as well as others, have been imprisoned in order to silence voices against the zombifying propaganda.


http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1545513511&fbclid=IwAR1jhblFpubAgsUO2qAERgKssefTQsfCFsaGNLmI7pcMIL2aUEvhyAgeTpM
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

 

+-RWD Stats

Members
Total Members: 8883
Latest: Leroy14
New This Month: 1
New This Week: 0
New Today: 0
Stats
Total Posts: 541017
Total Topics: 20849
Most Online Today: 2385
Most Online Ever: 12701
(January 14, 2020, 07:04:55 AM)
Users Online
Members: 11
Guests: 2239
Total: 2250

+-Recent Posts

Re: American With Russian Fiancé - Scheduled For K1 Interview In Warsaw, BUT.... by Infoman
Yesterday at 09:57:04 PM

Re: Plumber earnings by Trenchcoat
Yesterday at 09:37:55 PM

Plumber earnings by ML
Yesterday at 07:49:26 PM

Re: American With Russian Fiancé - Scheduled For K1 Interview In Warsaw, BUT.... by krimster2
Yesterday at 07:23:34 PM

Re: American With Russian Fiancé - Scheduled For K1 Interview In Warsaw, BUT.... by Infoman
Yesterday at 06:28:48 PM

American With Russian Fiancé - Scheduled For K1 Interview In Warsaw, BUT.... by 2tallbill
Yesterday at 04:48:07 PM

Re: What to do by krimster2
Yesterday at 04:37:18 PM

If you don't know what you are talking about, post away anyway by 2tallbill
Yesterday at 04:17:08 PM

Re: American With Russian Fiancé - Scheduled For K1 Interview In Warsaw, BUT.... by krimster2
Yesterday at 02:48:08 PM

Re: What to do by krimster2
Yesterday at 01:09:03 PM

Powered by EzPortal

create account