Russian Women Discussion
RWD Discussion Groups => Immigration and Visas => Topic started by: Photo Guy on August 23, 2014, 07:53:25 PM
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I'm leaning in the direction of marriage first, followed by a IR-1 or CR-1 visa for her. What visa would we use for her young sons? Would I need to adopt them? Please help... thanks, doug
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IR-1 requires an existing marriage of 2 years or longer.
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Thanks. What about a CR-1?...plus K2's for her kids?
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What visa would we use for her young sons? Would I need to adopt them?
I doubt you need to adopt them for the kids to arrive with their mother at the same time. I suspect you will need to file some paperwork at the same time with their mother but I'm not familiar with what you need. You will most likely need permission from their father for them to be allowed to leave the country. Do you have this permission?
What about a CR-1?...plus K2's for her kids?
CR-1 is for marriages less than 2 years and your wife won't get permanent residency upon arrival. You will have to apply for that later unlike the IR-1. Not many here have gone this route. Check out this link if we can't give you all the answers.
http://www.visajourney.com/content/i130guide1 (http://www.visajourney.com/content/i130guide1)
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Thanks Billy-
yeah, I had read that and I'm aware of the 'conditional status' of the CR-1. I am trying to get info about requirements for her kids, find out what paperwork is required, find out what kind of paperwork we need from her kids' father. Not much info about it at visajourney... or at least I can't find it yet.
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Thanks Billy-
yeah, I had read that and I'm aware of the 'conditional status' of the CR-1. I am trying to get info about requirements for her kids, find out what paperwork is required, find out what kind of paperwork we need from her kids' father. Not much info about it at visajourney... or at least I can't find it yet.
have you tried contacting the embassy?
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In Kiev? Hmmm. I'll try that.
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If you marry and adopt them, don't they become your children?
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I've never been in this situation before. I guess that's true. Do I officially 'adopt' them? Does ex-husband need to give official permission for their departure? Visitation rights? etc. I sent questions to the embassy...
I need a different forum, for stepfathers, etc. ;-)
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X-man here on this forum just went through this.
Except he did the fiance visa.
But she brought a child, so probably same for that case.
Send him PM or maybe he will show up here in your thread.
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I've never been in this situation before. I guess that's true. Do I officially 'adopt' them? Does ex-husband need to give official permission for their departure? Visitation rights? etc. I sent questions to the embassy...
I need a different forum, for stepfathers, etc. ;-)
You don't need to adopt them. I've heard (don't know for sure) that if she is in Ukraine then she will need kids' father's permission (unlike how it is in Russia).
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I sent you a PM on this topic. My wife and I are going through this right now.
Use CR-1 for her and CR-2 for the kids. Using CR-1 will allow her to get green card and SSN when she arrives. She can work right away.
As far as kids, fathers permission is required in Ukraine for children to get international passport and/or exit permit. Furthermore, the US requires permission of father in order to immigrate. Go to State Department web site. All of the requirements are spelled out there. PM me for more details if you want.
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I've never been in this situation before. I guess that's true. Do I officially 'adopt' them? Does ex-husband need to give official permission for their departure? Visitation rights? etc. I sent questions to the embassy...
I need a different forum, for stepfathers, etc. ;-)
How are you going to handle this? What does the father think?
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Their marriage was bad. The father is supportive. He wants a better life for his kids in the USA, away from the war zone. Today an immigration attorney told me to consider doing a K1 again with her. It's my understanding that in Ukraine, a Napoleonic system is used where both parents have joint custody of children. I believe to offset this, the father would need to make a statement, allowing his kids to move out of the country, giving his permission. I'll now send a PM to X-Man, see what's up. I'm thinking a K1 with K2s might be a quicker route...
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Their marriage was bad. The father is supportive. He wants a better life for his kids in the USA, away from the war zone. Today an immigration attorney told me to consider doing a K1 again with her. It's my understanding that in Ukraine, a Napoleonic system is used where both parents have joint custody of children. I believe to offset this, the father would need to make a statement, allowing his kids to move out of the country, giving his permission. I'll now send a PM to X-Man, see what's up. I'm thinking a K1 with K2s might be a quicker route...
PG-- if the father wants to see a better life for his sons that is a great help.Getting his signature on the relevant documents should be a priority . All too often when it comes time to sign those consents a father will start getting difficult about it-- and as some here on forum will attest going legal is a nightmare.
With those consents in hand the rest of the process is more clear and should parallel others paths.
Right now-- I would put 100% effort into getting the fathers releases in place.
As an aside--I have often observed woman with children in immigration queue at the airport-- folders of paperwork in hand-- I always move to another line as they always seem to take a lot of time having documentation checked. :)
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I went the K1/K2 route. If for no other reason, I wanted my now wife to see where I lived, make sure there were little adjustment issues and so forth. The 90 days is a good time to "settle in". I have seen good people decide that it was just not going to work and said goodbye on day 89. Just my opinion. I do not know the age of children but as long as they are under 21 before arriving, all can adjust status with no problem. Make sure they are listed in all original paperwork. And yes, Dad needs to submit letters stating Mom has full custody. regardless of country. It will come up in the embassy interview.
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Doll, thank you. No need to adopt them.
Our history:
2006
She arrived here in the USA on a K1 visa.
Three months later she returned to Ukraine. No marriage.
Her father went on a hunger strike demanding her return.
I was disappointed. I met her again in Kiev later that year.
She was ill and just had surgery then. Her parents divorced.
2007-2011
We grew apart. I dated Americans. She got married and had
two sons. Her father died. We stayed in touch.
2012
She started communicating more, sent me Christmas photos of her family.
We began doing a lot of emails and phone calls. She told me her marriage
was bad. Her husband was an 'alcoholic'.
2013 to present
We talk at least an hour a week, using skype and our translator.
The same interpreter we used when we initially met in Kiev years ago.
We're in love. We need to reunite.
I met with an immigration lawyer and now think the best course for us would be to do another K1 and K2's for her sons. She is about to get a 'friendly' divorce. Getting a statement from her husband, giving his permission for his sons to leave Ukraine should be doable. She would like her mom to attend our wedding here. Is this possible? What kind of visa?
So this timeline is not exactly typical. It will be two K1's for the same woman...
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I went the K1/K2 route. If for no other reason, I wanted my now wife to see where I lived, make sure there were little adjustment issues and so forth. The 90 days is a good time to "settle in". I have seen good people decide that it was just not going to work and said goodbye on day 89. Just my opinion. I do not know the age of children but as long as they are under 21 before arriving, all can adjust status with no problem. Make sure they are listed in all original paperwork. And yes, Dad needs to submit letters stating Mom has full custody. regardless of country. It will come up in the embassy interview.
Agree 100% with your post. It is the traditional method used by most. However there are other options for special cases. Also, in your example, the parties don't really know if they are well matched until fiance arrives in US.
We chose a different route because we knew that it would be some time before she could immigrate due to legal issues with custody, several properties that needed decisions on being sold, business that needed to be sold, etc.
We both decided that we wanted to cement the commitment and plan going forward without worrying if either of us would have later doubts. Therefore we got married in Kiev.
We also had the advantage of my trips to Ukraine and living together and dealing with the obstacles together as a family. Also, my wife received a 5 year, multi-entry Tourist Visa. We have bounced back and forth between Ukraine and the US over the past year so we have had an ample time to adjust to each other. I am also very lucky that my wife has a pleasant personality and does not like to argue and fight. She is very objective when we discuss options that could otherwise end up as an argument. I also changed my behavior in recent years....... If it is not than important, let her prevail.
Certainly our chosen method is not for everyone. It is very expensive compared to the traditional K-1/K-3. I think each couple needs to decide what method of immigration fits their scenario the best.
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Doug, I thank you for all of your past advice. Step one for us is...her divorce. She says he is on board with it and willing to give permission for his sons to move with her to the USA. Very happy about that. I have all of our old K1 documents from 2005. That should help too, along with newer communications from the past 9 years. I pray that the process goes smoothly...
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Doug, I thank you for all of your past advice. Step one for us is...her divorce. She says he is on board with it and willing to give permission for his sons to move with her to the USA. Very happy about that. I have all of our old K1 documents from 2005. That should help too, along with newer communications from the past 9 years. I pray that the process goes smoothly...
Your welcome. I pray that the custody and divorce go well for you. If it all works out like you hope, the K-1/K-3 should work well for you.
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Will the father be able to see his children when the deed is done?
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Will the father be able to see his children when the deed is done?
I suspect it is their personal business and not those wanting to start a new debate about visitation.
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The man has rights.
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Will the father be able to see his children when the deed is done?
We'll keep you posted.
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Bad joss to deny a man his rights.
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Bad joss to deny a man his rights.
LT-- it is also innappropriate to deny a woman the opprortunity to move on with her life.Too often the man uses the child in an attempt to exert control over an ex.
The courts in Ukraine have been stacked in the fathers favour in the past--regardless of how "bad" a father he has been.
Stories are rife in Ukraine of payments for signatures on release documents.
Of course-- the potential for a child to have a better life also needs to be considered-- but it seems that is not something the courts take into account.
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Tiberius, What in the world are you talking about???
My fiancee is on good terms with her husband. Don't imply that she's doing something wrong. If that's what you're implying, you had better elaborate and explain yourself.
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LT-- it is also innappropriate to deny a woman the opprortunity to move on with her life.Too often the man uses the child in an attempt to exert control over an ex.
The courts in Ukraine have been stacked in the fathers favour in the past--regardless of how "bad" a father he has been.
Stories are rife in Ukraine of payments for signatures on release documents.
Of course-- the potential for a child to have a better life also needs to be considered-- but it seems that is not something the courts take into account.
No, the courts generally are stacked against fathers. It is rare for a father to obtain custody of a child in Ukraine.
If a father does not wish a child to move, that should be respected. If you had children, you probably wouldn't want them to be moved to a country you could not visit freely, being raised by another man. The selfishness at times noted here in this regard is mind boggling. I also wonder what kind of mother would separate her children from a father who loves them.
It is a different story if the father is not involved in his child's life.
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No, the courts generally are stacked against fathers. It is rare for a father to obtain custody of a child in Ukraine.
If a father does not wish a child to move, that should be respected. If you had children, you probably wouldn't want them to be moved to a country you could not visit freely, being raised by another man. The selfishness at times noted here in this regard is mind boggling. I also wonder what kind of mother would separate her children from a father who loves them.
It is a different story if the father is not involved in his child's life.
I was not referring to custody--but the ability to get consent to leave Ukraine.
This is difficult even when the father has given no support at any time and played no part in the childs life.
You are getting some quite different issues confused here.
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Tiberius, What in the world are you talking about???
My fiancee is on good terms with her husband. Don't imply that she's doing something wrong. If that's what you're implying, you had better elaborate and explain yourself.
If what I said applies to you, I am sorry I offended you. If it doesn't, then I am not sorry.
Whatever you decide, it takes wisdom and guts to ask for help. We all know too many people who know everything.
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I was not referring to custody--but the ability to get consent to leave Ukraine.
This is difficult even when the father has given no support at any time and played no part in the childs life.
You are getting some quite different issues confused here.
Really? How?
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I was not referring to custody--but the ability to get consent to leave Ukraine.
This is difficult even when the father has given no support at any time and played no part in the childs life.
You are getting some quite different issues confused here.
Jay, you are correct and it was overlooked by Bo.
It will be a few weeks before I can post a full report on the custody issue, however to address one item that seems to be misunderstood......
In a contested custody case, one parent can be granted full physical and legal custody. The court order states that the mother (in this case) has the power to decide where the child will live. Absent any specific visitation orders, the mother can also decide if there is any visitation for the father at all.
What is misunderstood, is that the court order granting 'full custody' does not allow the custodial parent to remove the child from Ukraine, even though it specifically states the custodial parent can decide where the child resides. In a constested custody matter, the non-custodial parent can still prevent the child from leaving the country. For all practical purposes, the only way to overcome this obstacle is to sue in court to remove the others parental rights. This is a nightmare and very expensive, not to mention it takes a long time.
It is at least partially enforced by the child needing an International Passport to leave Ukraine. In order for a parent with sole custody to get an international passport for the child, she will have to provide a letter from the other parent (granting permission), or an order from the court allowing the child to exit.
There is a lot more to this than what I offered here, but at an appropriate time I will make a lengthy post about the whole process.
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We eagerly await. My fiancee has been actively pursuing the International Passport angle for her sons. I need to learn all about that. She has gone to Poland to visit relatives with at least one of her sons in the last 6 months, to get away from the war.
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We eagerly await. My fiancee has been actively pursuing the International Passport angle for her sons. I need to learn all about that. She has gone to Poland to visit relatives with at least one of her sons in the last 6 months, to get away from the war.
Good luck to all of you.
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What is misunderstood, is that the court order granting 'full custody' does not allow the custodial parent to remove the child from Ukraine, even though it specifically states the custodial parent can decide where the child resides. In a constested custody matter, the non-custodial parent can still prevent the child from leaving the country. For all practical purposes, the only way to overcome this obstacle is to sue in court to remove the others parental rights. This is a nightmare and very expensive, not to mention it takes a long time.
I didn't misunderstand that particular point. I knew that was the case. It is the same in many Canadian jurisdictions as well. A custodial parent cannot just move to a different jurisdiction without a court order. The best interests of the child are what govern.
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I didn't misunderstand that particular point. I knew that was the case. It is the same in many Canadian jurisdictions as well. A custodial parent cannot just move to a different jurisdiction without a court order. The best interests of the child are what govern.
Agree.
There is also a joke something like........ Even if the father is a drunk, has never paid child support, and never been active in the childs life, it is rare for a court to remove his parental rights.
That is why I think it is important to negotiate in good faith in the beginning (for all concerned).
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Doll, thank you. No need to adopt them.
Our history:
2006
She arrived here in the USA on a K1 visa.
Three months later she returned to Ukraine. No marriage.
Her father went on a hunger strike demanding her return.
I was disappointed. I met her again in Kiev later that year.
She was ill and just had surgery then. Her parents divorced.
2007-2011
We grew apart. I dated Americans. She got married and had
two sons. Her father died. We stayed in touch.
2012
She started communicating more, sent me Christmas photos of her family.
We began doing a lot of emails and phone calls. She told me her marriage
was bad. Her husband was an 'alcoholic'.
2013 to present
We talk at least an hour a week, using skype and our translator.
The same interpreter we used when we initially met in Kiev years ago.
We're in love. We need to reunite.
I met with an immigration lawyer and now think the best course for us would be to do another K1 and K2's for her sons. She is about to get a 'friendly' divorce. Getting a statement from her husband, giving his permission for his sons to leave Ukraine should be doable. She would like her mom to attend our wedding here. Is this possible? What kind of visa?
So this timeline is not exactly typical. It will be two K1's for the same woman...
very weird timeline....it seems to me that some of these entries should be red flags if that is all there is to it...
it is a big issue moving children away from their father....it goes beyond whether it can legally be done...you have to rely on the lady's word...if it were me, I'd like to hear right from the horses mouth and discuss what your role will be....judging from the timeline (you presented), it doesn't appear you have visited for more than 7 years. If that is correct, how the hell is this going to be deemed a 'relationship'...maybe you omitted a visitation, but if not maybe you should.
Fathertime!
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Thanks for your input fathertime. Yes, that post represents about 4% of the entire story. :D
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Thanks for your input fathertime. Yes, that post represents about 4% of the entire story. :D
That is good photo guy, if the other 96% includes you meeting these children that would be an important element for both immigration and seeing if you actually want to be raising them. The task you are taking on will be very large (mentally, physically, and financially), and you don't appear to be a spring chicken.
Good luck,
Fathertime!
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Agree.
There is also a joke something like........ Even if the father is a drunk, has never paid child support, and never been active in the childs life, it is rare for a court to remove his parental rights.
That is why I think it is important to negotiate in good faith in the beginning (for all concerned).
OK bud
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Wow, I missed this thread until today. Actually my wife saw it and she was thrilled to hear that after your long struggle things are finally working out for you PhotoGuy.
I know some of your long struggle and how much you have wanted to build a life together and I am really happy that things are progressing. You have had some good advice in this thread already.
I will agree that the K-1 & K-2 are the way to go. The processing time is about the same for that and a CR-1 but it would take time for you to go there and marry so you will get her here faster on the K-1. You have already spent time together so there should be few surprises on that part.
I would also agree that the most worrisome step is getting the fathers approval. I would suggest getting that out of the way first. Some men would not want to be away from their kids. Some want the best for their kids even if it means a sacrifice for them. Some just don't care and are happy to be rid of an obligation. If he is OK with it get the paperwork done before he changes his mind. Sometimes some fathers get the idea that some compensation for their loss is required and it is better to get his John Hancock on the dotted line before he thinks about this.
I had lost faith in the saying that "Love conquers all" but hearing the good news has started me to be a believer again.
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I had lost faith in the saying that "Love conquers all" but hearing the good news has started me to be a believer again.
I think we just proved it. ;D
After nearly 2 years of court hearings in Ukraine, wifey just notified me we are victorious.
We faced.......
Contested divorce
Contested child support
Contested custody
If the embassy will grant Tourist Visa to daughter (like my wife's), they should be in the US shortly.
It was a long arduous fight, but well worth it.
Had it not been for my wife's determination and hard work, we would never have made it through the process.
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Congratulations Doug--all the best to you and your family. :clapping:
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The Father has rights and they need to be respected.
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I had lost faith in the saying that "Love conquers all" but hearing the good news has started me to be a believer again.
The saying "All things come to he who waits" also comes to mind.
Congratulations Photo Guy. Your fiancée should take the lead on negotiating with her children's father. I recall that Vaughn eventually spoke to the father and the father consented upon feeling reassured that his daughter would be taken care of.
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So, I'm probably one of the few that thinks this is a train wreck in the making then.
Let's see, after a hiatus in the "relationship" of 8 years or so, you talk for "at least an hour a week". In that 8 years, she got married to an apparent alcoholic and had 2 kids and was, I assume, being emotionally unfaithful to this dude for part of the time with you. You haven't actually met the kids face to face nor have you actually met her in the flesh since 2006.
And you are planning a marriage to this person? You understand that it is a huge thing to be responsible for children? That their emotional and psychological well being is very dependent on the environment they are raised in? And you haven't even touched their mother in 8 years let alone lived with her.
That's my cheerful and optimistic take on this.
My pessimistic take is that she and her husband are taking you for a ride - when she gets settled you will be kicked into touch or perhaps she will suffer a dose of "domestic violence", and then wifey will reunite will the "ex-husband" in the good ol' U.S. of A.
Are you mad?
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So, I'm probably one of the few that thinks this is a train wreck in the making then.
So there is someone who is not a believer in "Love conquers all"
Personally I think when women are young the are attracted to "bad boys" and think in terms of a knight riding in on a white horse and carrying them off to the life of a princess living in a castle and a life of eternal bliss.
Once they get a dose or reality many start to realize that a good man who loves them and wants them to be happy is worth his weight in gold and a far better choice than someone who appeals to their wilder side. PG fell head over heals in love long ago and never gave up on his dream. She could not do better and I think a hard dose of the realities of life have shown her that. I think they will be fine.
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PG fell head over heals in love long ago and never gave up on his dream.
I don't know Photo Guy's story. It was chronicled before I joined RWD. Yet, there are factors important to any RW-AM marriage, and the most important are feelings.
What did she feel 8 years ago? Did she not marry PG then because she had concerns about moving to America? Or did she simply not feel love/attraction for PG?
If the latter, the question remains of what does she feel today. There could be trouble if her feelings are nothing more than:
- 1) I am desperate because I married a bad man, do not have enough income to raise two children, no FSUM is interested in marrying me, etc.
- 2) Photo Guy is a decent man and my only option.
OTOH, if she enters the relationship in good faith and is willing to do her part, then maybe love will grow. Big MAYBE. I recall from years ago a survey that revealed most RW married AM not feeling love. Many such marriages failed, yet many have succeeded.
No one can say for certain that there will be a train wreck. However, PG needs to recognize the risk involved and be prepared if the worst outcome happens.
This marriage is far from a done deal. PG needs to get on an airplane and spend much time with his fiancée in the year before she arrives. How does he interact with the kids? What passion does she have for PG?
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Let's see, after a hiatus in the "relationship" of 8 years or so, you talk for "at least an hour a week". In that 8 years, she got married to an apparent alcoholic and had 2 kids and was, I assume, being emotionally unfaithful to this dude for part of the time with you. You haven't actually met the kids face to face nor have you actually met her in the flesh since 2006.
Excellent points.
You understand that it is a huge thing to be responsible for children? That their emotional and psychological well being is very dependent on the environment they are raised in?
Very true, yet PG seems like a man who would enjoy children. If not, the train wreck you predict is likely.
That's my cheerful and optimistic take on this.
Given your normal response a couple of years ago, I say fatherhood has mellowed you. :) :) :) :)
Are you mad?
Anyone who undertakes this is touched, some more than others.
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PhotoGuy could answer this better than I could but some of the reasons she chose to go back was that her parents were ill and she felt they needed her. They have died since then so that is no longer an issue.
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PhotoGuy could answer this better than I could but some of the reasons she chose to go back was that her parents were ill and she felt they needed her. They have died since then so that is no longer an issue.
A valid reason, especially if there were no extended family to care for her parents.
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So, I'm probably one of the few that thinks this is a train wreck in the making then.
Let's see, after a hiatus in the "relationship" of 8 years or so, you talk for "at least an hour a week". In that 8 years, she got married to an apparent alcoholic and had 2 kids and was, I assume, being emotionally unfaithful to this dude for part of the time with you. You haven't actually met the kids face to face nor have you actually met her in the flesh since 2006.
And you are planning a marriage to this person? You understand that it is a huge thing to be responsible for children? That their emotional and psychological well being is very dependent on the environment they are raised in? And you haven't even touched their mother in 8 years let alone lived with her.
That's my cheerful and optimistic take on this.
Well said. There are so many fish in the sea; I personally see no need to get involved in a situation with so many red flags. Usually when a man (or a woman) do this sort of thing -- they think:
If only I can marry this person who I was always in love with, I will be happy!
Which is a result of them being in "love" with being in love and getting married at all costs, without any concern for reality. In other words they think that "marriage" will solve all of the problems, when in fact it usually magnifies all of the problems.
Throw in a different language, different culture and kids to boot; oh boy. :-X
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So, I'm probably one of the few that thinks this is a train wreck in the making then.
Let's see, after a hiatus in the "relationship" of 8 years or so, you talk for "at least an hour a week". In that 8 years, she got married to an apparent alcoholic and had 2 kids and was, I assume, being emotionally unfaithful to this dude for part of the time with you. You haven't actually met the kids face to face nor have you actually met her in the flesh since 2006.
if what Ade has said here is true regarding never meeting the children or seeing the lady in the flesh for 8 years then I can't imagine this relationship getting through the visa process. Photo guy has alluded that there is more to the story, but what? I don't see how those earlier factors can be overcome, nor should they be (if true).
In general, if a father has to be convinced to permot movement of his kids, I think the other man doing the convincing should stand down. That may or may not apply in this case...if the man is the basket case as described here. The father-child relationship is not likely to be replicated by an older foreign man and I believe a lot is lost in the process...it is hard to say one way or another in this case, not knowing the participants.
Fathertime!
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I remember reading PG's account of it before. Quite frankly I don't remember the particulars of it anymore other than it was a train wreck from Hell and he got lucky.
I haven't been following the latest saga other than glancing through his comments on it and thinking wtf? To each his/her own but I'd wager this has as much of chance of success as a snowball in hell. There may be snowballs in Hell for all I know but, I wager there isn't and would have to agree with Ade assessment. Not that his or my assessment means diddly squat but there it is.
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So there is someone who is not a believer in "Love conquers all"
Personally I think when women are young the are attracted to "bad boys" and think in terms of a knight riding in on a white horse and carrying them off to the life of a princess living in a castle and a life of eternal bliss.
Once they get a dose or reality many start to realize that a good man who loves them and wants them to be happy is worth his weight in gold and a far better choice than someone who appeals to their wilder side. PG fell head over heals in love long ago and never gave up on his dream. She could not do better and I think a hard dose of the realities of life have shown her that. I think they will be fine.
TG, interesting post and I do think you are correct in many situations. I guess I don't get the guys who go back with these women.
The obviously didn't feel the tingles and went with the "bad boy" who gave them the tingles.
If you weren't enough for a woman to stay, why would you want to take her back when this so called reality sits in? I certainly wouldn't be interested in being a fall back guy when she decides she wants support. Especially when she had kids with another man.
There are too many women out there that you can have much more. Maybe that is why I don't understand the mentality. No reason to settle for someone who is obviously put the dude in a support role.
For the record, I am not saying this happened with Photoguy. I was just interested in your comment.
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For the record, I am not saying this happened with Photoguy. I was just interested in your comment.
Well, my quote may actually have had nothing to do with the PG situation. That was more just a comment on women's logic (some may consider that an oxymoron),
My impression of what happened between PG and his gal goes about like this. She came over for 90 days but felt a loyalty to her ill parents and felt it was her duty as a loving daughter to return to Ukraine and take care of her ill parents. Since she had made the decision to stay in Ukraine and care for her parents her life was going to be there. So she meets the Ukrainian guy and marries him, has a few kids, guy dumps her, parents die and PG still wants to build a life with her. It is a good choice for her. They have spend over 3 months together and communicated on Skype for a lot of additional time. Many have married someone who they haven't known as well.
For PG, sure, there are enough women available there that he could find a woman with less baggage and less problems than he will have with her. He is in love with her and isn't interested in another woman. Maybe he has a white knight complex, who knows. Maybe he just likes challengers. What ever it is she is the woman he wants. The kids could be a big problem but maybe not. They are young enough that they could in time consider PG to be their real dad. Sometimes kids can ruin a good relationship and sometimes they can make it stronger. PG is going into this with his eyes open.
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I don't know anyone here that should have worn white to their own wedding, do you?
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So there is someone who is not a believer in "Love conquers all"
Is this really about "love"? They hardly know each other. Sure, they spent a few months together (and that turned out well didn't it?) but that was before a marriage to another guy, 2 kids and 8 years. IMO, if there was any kind of love involved, it would have trumped her parents demands - as far as PG's admission goes, her parents were not ill at that time but her father tried to coerce her to do what he wanted, "Her father went on a hunger strike demanding her return."
Sounds like a loving home to me then. :rolleyes:
Or perhaps she was just making it all up as an excuse to bottle out of the relationship with PG. I wonder if her "illness" required a bunch of $$$ and did PG have to pony up for that.
You don't "grow apart" when you're in love with someone.
So, best case, we have a couple of near strangers and a couple of kids going to try to make happy families in the USA. If it weren't for the kids, I'd say he's nothing to lose if he's willing to risk the DV charges but, with 2 kids in tow, this becomes a much more serious a proposition, not for him but for them.
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I like PG. I don't like Ade. But you would be wise to heed his advice. A lot red flags. Not a may day parade but definitely a Politburo meeting.
The unequal bargaining of the Father's rights is the big dealbreaker. Some of the members here might admire the Julio Claudian emperors and Joseph Smith and thus have no obstacles in reassigning marital and parental rights arbitrarily. Even if the father was a prison junkie chances are the kuds would want a relationship with him. How will that happen in this arrangement! Have you made any allowance for that?
What if you get sweeties and her 2 tykes out, the battle lines move and he is stuck there? Or he gets hurt, or in jail for no good reason? Things like that happen in Mexico which even Doll will agree is a saner place the the DNR.
And why this woman? If you wanted hotter and younger, its not hard to find that on the Maidan. If you did not want that, why even go overseas, we have an unlimited supply here. Now most of us are not the Donald Trump of love. Further with few exceptions, everyone of us has someone else's sloppy seconds. But why this woman? She has more baggage than the lost and found at the Moscow Metro.
Re-think this PG. You seem like a good due who can do A LOT better.
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To me, this issue of the sperm donor beinge willing to allow the kids to leave the country is between him and the mother. If he is ok with it I don't think PG has any reason to feel guilty. He has the power to keep his kids close if he chooses and if he doesn't give a crap then I don't think we or PG need to worry about what his best interests are.
If PG wanted someone different that would be his choice. I have seen a lot of couples where some might think that one of them might have been able to do better. Love doesn't always make sense. The fact is that this gal is the one PG is in love with and wants to marry. He has been in love for years and if he is happy the fact that he could find a woman with less baggage is no concern of ours.
A very long time ago I had a good friend who had everything going for him. He was tall, handsome, a gifted athlete, smart as a whip and a great personality. He attended a family reunion and was keeping an eye on his young niece but also sliding down a rope slide into a lake. The niece did something to distract him and he fell off the rope slide, head first. Dave broke is neck and was paralyzed from the neck down. The last time I saw Dave he had just gotten married to a gal who had been his nurse. Her looks and figure were the equal of any woman I have seen on a RW site, she was a catch that any guy here would be thrilled to land. Now why she wanted to settle for a paraplegic and all the baggage that goes with it when she could do better I am not sure. Love doesn't always make sense. Life doesn't either actually.
PG has had a dream for a long time. It looks like it will finally come true and I am happy for him and wish him the best.
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To me, this issue of the sperm donor beinge willing to allow the kids to leave the country is between him and the mother. If he is ok with it I don't think PG has any reason to feel guilty. He has the power to keep his kids close if he chooses and if he doesn't give a crap then I don't think we or PG need to worry about what his best interests are.
If PG wanted someone different that would be his choice. I have seen a lot of couples where some might think that one of them might have been able to do better. Love doesn't always make sense. The fact is that this gal is the one PG is in love with and wants to marry. He has been in love for years and if he is happy the fact that he could find a woman with less baggage is no concern of ours.
A very long time ago I had a good friend who had everything going for him. He was tall, handsome, a gifted athlete, smart as a whip and a great personality. He attended a family reunion and was keeping an eye on his young niece but also sliding down a rope slide into a lake. The niece did something to distract him and he fell off the rope slide, head first. Dave broke is neck and was paralyzed from the neck down. The last time I saw Dave he had just gotten married to a gal who had been his nurse. Her looks and figure were the equal of any woman I have seen on a RW site, she was a catch that any guy here would be thrilled to land. Now why she wanted to settle for a paraplegic and all the baggage that goes with it when she could do better I am not sure. Love doesn't always make sense. Life doesn't either actually.
PG has had a dream for a long time. It looks like it will finally come true and I am happy for him and wish him the best.
Agree 100% with everything in your post.
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PG has had a dream for a long time. It looks like it will finally come true and I am happy for him and wish him the best.
Despite what appears to be loony (at least based on what he has posted thus far), apparently this is something he is just going to have to do, if it doesn't fall through via immigration or a hangup on the lady's end.
I've had some dreams that I have let go of because I looked at the situation rationally. For Photoguy this may or may not be one of those cases, in any case he will continue to have time to consider all his options. If he has been a father he will have some idea what he is getting into, if he hasn't been, then it will be even harder then he may realize.
Fathertime!
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Love does not always make sense? So why not settle down with a man, a dog or a dead person?
I myself have donated a fair share of sperm. And yet label a man with that kind of epithet is beneath me..
If he wore a dress, heels and a wig for the rest if his life, he is still the father of those kids. Nothing in your post addresses or even acknowledges that fact.
But it doesn't go that way with you . . . King Brenna's said to the Romans once "Woe to the vanquished . . . . . Had he known he was inviting curses on his house would he use those words.
You want to be dismissive of morality and drag others down with you feel fine. Don't say we didn't warn you PG.
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Love does not always make sense? So why not settle down with a man, a dog or a dead person?
I myself have donated a fair share of sperm. And yet label a man with that kind of epithet is beneath me..
If he wore a dress, heels and a wig for the rest if his life, he is still the father of those kids. Nothing in your post addresses or even acknowledges that fact.But it doesn't go that way with you . . . King Brenna's said to the Romans once "Woe to the vanquished . . . . . Had he known he was inviting curses on his house would he use those words.
You want to be dismissive of morality and drag others down with you feel fine. Don't say we didn't warn you PG.
LT, some days your pretty dense! In addition, your morality preaching is getting kind of old. :(
If you read the thread, you would know that the children's father is supportive of the mother taking them to the US to have a better life. That is why all the members comments to get it in writing. So far, in the postings he has said nothing to suggest that he is trying to "take the children" away from their biological father. For all we know they might make some visitation arrangements on their own (without your input).
BTW, I am a big supporter of fathers rights. Fighting for joint custody of my daughter cost me about $250K back in the days when the Joint Custody Statute was first passed in California. I would do it all over again.
You somewhat remind me of the religious zealot that is preaching to you face to face on the street and will not go away after you tell them you are not interested. So far, PG has said nothing that would suggest he should be ridiculed for the position he and his girlfriend are taking.
As far as the rest of the story, it does sound like a higher risk than the average relationship. So what? People that go through life never taking any risks usually amount to be very boring people. Whether in business or personal lives, the secret is to manage risk. Lets pray that PG considers all the risks and makes wise decisions.
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As far as the rest of the story, it does sound like a higher risk than the average relationship. So what?
As Ade pointed out, if it was just his life, and hers, then so what to a higher risk would be fine. But it is not. There are two children whose lives also will be affected the decision of adults, and they don't have a say in the matter.
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As Ade pointed out, if it was just his life, and hers, then so what to a higher risk would be fine. But it is not. There are two children whose lives also will be affected the decision of adults, and they don't have a say in the matter.
Isn't this usually the case? Parents get divorced, children usually live with one parent or the other, the custodial parent remarries, etc etc.
In Ukraine, children of age 14 and older can petition the court to remove parental rights. Under 14 years of age, the best welfare of the child is determined by the parents (in uncontested custody cases) and by the court when custody is contested.
If I read your inference correctly, you are suggesting that young children should be able to dictate their preference.
That is contrary to most laws I am familiar with and is certainly contrary to the law in Ukraine and the US for cases where the parents come to an agreement. I believe that governments generally feel that children are better served by the decisions of the parents rather than the government sticking their nose in peoples business when it is not necessary.
What do you suggest governments should do about custody decisions that the parents have agreed on?
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I never stated anything about government. I suggested that adults should put their desires aside to determine what is best for the children. rather than themselves.
If adults really put the best interests of children first, there would be a lot fewer divorces.
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...I suggested that adults should put their desires aside to determine what is best for the children. rather than themselves.
Agreed - it seems obvious, but unfortunately many couples don't seem to work through that area satisfactorily.
If adults really put the best interests of children first, there would be a lot fewer divorces.
Maybe in a perfect world, Boethius, but not in the real one. What use is parents who hate each other (for whatever reason) staying together, just for the sake of the children? Or women who have been beaten within an inch of their lives staying to receive more violence? Admittedly the latter group would almost certainly serve their children better by leaving anyway, but your last clause seems to be suggesting that many more couples should stay together JUST for their children's sake. If the parents' relationship with each other is doomed to the point of toxicity, then staying together is not going to be the answer. Any tension will simply be exacerbated, possibly to the point of violence, and that would defeat the whole purpose of staying together in the first place.
Unfortunately, not all of us live in wonderful marriages which have lasted 20, 30, 40 or more years. Heck, how many members here (other than yourself) are still in their first "normal" marriage? If they were, they wouldn't be on this forum.
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They are not even divorced yet.
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Sorry for the delayed response. I've been away.
Thanks for the advice. ..Thanks Turbo.
I love this woman. She's very special and the more I know her the more I love her. I realize it will not be easy, but some things in life are not easy and still worth doing. I'm reasonable. So is she. So is her husband. The three of us want what is best for these two young kids. I have yet to hear any animosity or malevolence from the father... I pray that all goes well.
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How can you love a woman who is still married?
Tell me this is not weird.
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I also loved her years ago, before she was married. Do I need to draw you a picture?
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I also loved her years ago, before she was married. Do I need to draw you a picture?
For some people, even a picture doesn't help. :D
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Doug (PG) was hopelessly in love with Larisa (I'll stand corrected on the name) years back, everyone tried to warn him and only TG supported him IIRC. Commentary this time isn't going to write a different script - that said, Doug, I wish you no ill as I didn't last time either but I really must warn you to heed some advice and mine is blunt....
As Boethius has intimated, there are kids involved and I don't care how you slice it and dice it, until you've done it (married an instant family), you have no clue as to what you're in for. I married a lady with a child, it was my second marriage, I had travelled (read into that what you will) a lot more than most ever will and I was lucky (maybe a few smarts thrown in) enough to meet someone who wanted to fall in love, who wanted be with a husband for who he was (not only what he could offer) and who wanted that husband to be the father of all her children - she had (I imagine) to bite her tongue at times and hand quite a bit over to that husband (me). I can be the hardest SOB known to man at times and am very happy to stand alone if that's what it takes. We now have 4 children and are up to our necks in raising a family. The summary is, if there is a T shirt in this game, I think we own the cloth it was cut from.
Doug, I'm painting a little picture here because knowing you as I do, I think you'd make a wonderful grandfather, but rest assured, that is a very long way from instant parenting, especially sharing that parenting with a women who has, for all intents and purposes, walked all over you and thrown you to the wind once before.
I get that you are "in love" with Larisa but are you certain you "love" who and what she really is? The two are quite separate and you'll need 110% of both to last any time at all. Most of all, these children need security and given the history, you cannot be 100 confident in your own mind of longevity and therefore will not project an atmosphere of security - it simply isn't possible.
Doug, I know the area you come from well and as you most certainly can observe on a daily basis, there is more than enough disgruntled immigrants (from the south) in that area - bringing two young children into an unstable situation and fragile relationship is only likely to ultimately add to that number. Please, don't do this.
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I also loved her years ago, before she was married. Do I need to draw you a picture?
Apparently the feeling wasn't mutual.
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I/O.
I hope you are not confusing the two Doug's on the forum. My wife's name is Larissa. I don't know PhotoGuys girlfriends name. Perhaps it is a coincidence.
As to Photoguys situation, it seems that his girlfriend and her husband are supportive of getting a divorce and the father thinks the best thing for the children are to immigrate to the USA and marry PhotoGuy, I don 't see the problem. It's none of our business how the husband and wife arrived at their joint agreement. If they carried it out as they planned PhotoGuy might have a built in family that the absent parent agrees with.
As long as PhotoGuy is not being scammed by husband and wife, it's not much different than a couple that have already divorced and the father has no interest in being active in the children's lives. I fail to fathom the heightened interest in this case, since so many women already have permission from the father to allow his children to emigrate. Sometimes the fathers grant permission just to get out of child support.
The question is what is best for the children? A loving couple involving a step-parent or a family that is staying together (without love) for the sake of the children.
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As long as PhotoGuy is not being scammed by husband and wife, it's not much different than a couple that have already divorced and the father has no interest in being active in the children's lives. I fail to fathom the heightened interest in this case...
How do you/we know that the father has no interest in being active in the children's lives? We should just assume that? It's no different? Actually it's very different. If Photo Guy sponsors this woman, he's on the hook to financially support her for 10 years, is he not?
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Well said I/O - perhaps he'll listen to you if you've known him so long as I think my reality check fell on deaf ears.
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I/O.
I hope you are not confusing the two Doug's on the forum. My wife's name is Larissa. I don't know PhotoGuys girlfriends name. Perhaps it is a coincidence.
I guess it falls into the small world category. PG, Doug's gal's name is Larisa. Just for consistency perhaps we can change your name to Dougg 8)
Well said I/O - perhaps he'll listen to you if you've known him so long as I think my reality check fell on deaf ears.
I don't think PG is going into this without thinking everything out and yes, it is a high risk venture but I think I know PG about as well as anyone here. I have met him and we stayed in touch a bit through his long absence here and frankly I think as well meaning as some of the advice is here everyone is wasting their breath. The only way this won't happen is if something on her end stops it.
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I also loved her years ago, before she was married. Do I need to draw you a picture?
You have no respect for marriage. You will reap what you sow.
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You have no respect for marriage. You will reap what you sow.
As will you
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Well said I/O - perhaps he'll listen to you if you've known him so long as I think my reality check fell on deaf ears.
Everything this man has written on this thread has been valid and ignored. Instead we are treated to Calimissile's immoralizing.
:popcorn:
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Everything this man has written on this thread has been valid and ignored. Instead we are treated to Calimissile's immoralizing.
:popcorn:
I/O is both very intelligent and very wise (sometimes the two don't go together). No one is ignoring him. The fact still remains that Doug is in love and is going to do what he feels his heart is directing him to do. Those who are advising him to take another route may well be correct. Doug will face a lot of obstacles and challenges and there is risk. Still concerning the advice he should forget her and could find a better women with less baggage, that would have been better done years ago and those giving that advice are
:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:
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There are three important issues:
1. Love between PG and Larisa.
2. Welfare of Larisa's two children.
3. Larisa is entering into a new relationship before leaving her current relationship.
I/O wrote an excellent post about the first two.
LOVE
.... I married a lady with a child, it was my second marriage, I had travelled (read into that what you will) a lot more than most ever will and I was lucky (maybe a few smarts thrown in) enough to meet someone who wanted to fall in love, who wanted be with a husband for who he was (not only what he could offer)....
Excellent statement of a litmus test. This same litmus test was performed years ago when Larisa came to America via a fiancée visa. Larisa failed the litmus test. Leaving to take care of aging parents does not trump true love. Marrying someone else speaks volumes.
The reasons for failed relationships can not always be readily explained, nor do they need to be explained. The fact that the relationship failed says that renewing the relationship is probably hopeless unless Larisa has undergone a transformation.
If her transformation is nothing more than she seeks what PG can offer...Photoguy's deep love will go unrequited. IMO over the years unrequited love will create strife and ill feeling, and even PG's love will diminish. However, if Larisa was physically attracted to PG years ago, there is hope. The only way to determine this is for PG and Larisa to spend time together (before he applies for a fiancée visa).
CHILDREN
Doug, I'm painting a little picture here because knowing you as I do, I think you'd make a wonderful grandfather, but rest assured, that is a very long way from instant parenting, especially sharing that parenting with a women who has, for all intents and purposes, walked all over you and thrown you to the wind once before.
I was old enough to be the grandfather of the two kids in my first RW marriage. The kids were very young and had never known their father. They wanted a father, and I enthusiastically filled that void. My divorce from their mother was not about the children. My Cossack's wife 15-yo son truly loves me. He too never knew his father, and I filled that void.
In contrast, Larisa's children know their father. They may not be so eager to adopt PG as their new dad. I ask PG if he knows what he is getting into. I assume he has no children from a past marriage.
Besides the love, forgiveness, time, patience and psychology required from PG, there is also the expense of raising children - it is large: university education, orthodontics, insurance, transportation, clothing, food (Gawd, I forgot how ravenous a teenager can be), etc.
IMO PG needs to spend time with the children before deciding to apply for a fiancée visa.
ENTERING NEW RELATIONSHIP
Every psychologist will advise people to end an existing relationship before entering a new relationship. To linger is not only confusing, messy, etc., it fosters doubt because one can not commit. Before applying for a visa, Larisa needs to divorce her husband and obtain as part of that divorce sole custody for the children.
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The woman would need a final divorce before applying for a K-1. In Ukraine and Russia a divorce certificate is usually a simple one page document. It usually does not specify the custody arrangements nor child support issues. I don't think you need to have grounds for the divorce.
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Sorry for the delayed response. I've been away.
Thanks for the advice. ..Thanks Turbo.
I love this woman. She's very special and the more I know her the more I love her. I realize it will not be easy, but some things in life are not easy and still worth doing. I'm reasonable. So is she. So is her husband. The three of us want what is best for these two young kids. I have yet to hear any animosity or malevolence from the father... I pray that all goes well.
To quote Mr. T
"I pity the foo"
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I don't think PG is going into this without thinking everything out and yes, it is a high risk venture...
Really?
I think all his blood moved south to the little head and his other head, the one that thinks, is being oxygen deprived.
I want to see a show of hands of guys who went through this at least once.
Mine is way up there.
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I know y'all want the best for me, and the best for my fiancee and her two young kids...
I appreciate your input.
doug
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The woman would need a final divorce before applying for a K-1. In Ukraine and Russia a divorce certificate is usually a simple one page document. It usually does not specify the custody arrangements nor child support issues. I don't think you need to have grounds for the divorce.
Sole custody is designated in a separate court document.
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Really?
I think all his blood moved south to the little head and his other head, the one that thinks, is being oxygen deprived.
I want to see a show of hands of guys who went through this at least once.
Mine is way up there.
Can't hate on that
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I know y'all want the best for me, and the best for my fiancee and her two young kids...
I appreciate your input.
doug
Just find somebody better
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I/O is both very intelligent and very wise (sometimes the two don't go together). No one is ignoring him. The fact still remains that Doug is in love and is going to do what he feels his heart is directing him to do. Those who are advising him to take another route may well be correct. Doug will face a lot of obstacles and challenges and there is risk. Still concerning the advice he should forget her and could find a better women with less baggage, that would have been better done years ago and those giving that advice are
:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:
As well he should. He should also take into consideration how his (and her's) actions is going to affect two young children. If Doug is a man of honor, he'll do what's best for those children. If that interest coincides with his and Larissa's desire to be together, that's great but, can he be honest with himself that it is? Rhetorical question.
As for the naysayers of which I consider myself ,it is incumbent upon those to point out information in which PG will hopefully consider as he moves forward with his plan. It is he who will have to live with the decision and the choices he makes, FWIW
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I think as well meaning as some of the advice is here everyone is wasting their breath. The only way this won't happen is if something on her end stops it.
I agree with this.
My stepfather married my mother when I was 18. She had 7 kids and I was the 2nd oldest. There was some trying times with my younger siblings...but in the end it worked out fine. They had two more children.
So...PG...it can work out just fine. Good luck and I am rooting for you.
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I have met him and we stayed in touch a bit through his long absence here and frankly I think as well meaning as some of the advice is here everyone is wasting their breath.
TG: I know you are absolutely correct and as a result of that correctness, Doug is going to need every bit the same level of support you provided him last time around (which I encourage you to provide). Like you, I doubt anyone here knows Doug as well as you but also remember.........
I hope you are not confusing the two Doug's on the forum. My wife's name is Larissa.
Nope.
I don 't see the problem
You don't know the history - love has been very blind in this example before.
Gator: I don't think age has much to do with fatherliness vs grandfatherliness and that certainly wasn't why I made the GF remark. I honestly believe Doug will make a wonderful grandfather because he is, without a doubt, one of the nicest people around but he has been hammered in this venture with the same women once before and will be slaughtered this time around - of that, there can be no realistic doubt.
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I honestly believe Doug will make a wonderful grandfather because he is, without a doubt, one of the nicest people around but he has been hammered in this venture with the same women once before and will be slaughtered this time around - of that, there can be no realistic doubt.
:shock:
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It will be a love-fest. And there will be challenges. Sometimes in life, sacrifices have to be made. The Holy Spirit will be our guide and comfort us in times of trouble. I'm doing the right thing and those who disagree are coming from a place of ignorance, often showing their own biases and their own dark imaginings, projecting their own inner issues.
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It will be a love-fest. And there will be challenges. Sometimes in life, sacrifices have to be made. The Holy Spirit will be our guide and comfort us in times of trouble. I'm doing the right thing and those who disagree are coming from a place of ignorance, often showing their own biases and their own dark imaginings, projecting their own inner issues.
You're talking about us happily married guys with kids, right?
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It will be a love-fest. And there will be challenges. Sometimes in life, sacrifices have to be made. The Holy Spirit will be our guide and comfort us in times of trouble. I'm doing the right thing and those who disagree are coming from a place of ignorance, often showing their own biases and their own dark imaginings, projecting their own inner issues.
Well Photo Guy, those guys that were commenting to the negative seemed to be doing it not out of malice. Perhaps you are one of those that thinks 'love' conquers all. I have no doubt that YOU are really into this lady....but you are not able to control how she genuinely feels about you...and how the children are going to react to you. You can be a good and earnest man, but you really should acknowledge that this situation is not something you can control in any way. Most of the comments here are pretty reasonable regarding the impression you have given. I can see that you are going to do follow through regardless of pretty much anything at this point. The impression you have given me is that even if your lady told you she was seeing another man, it wouldn't stop you from moving forward. Based on what you have written you seem 'innocent of mind' so I hope you are able to protect yourself financially/emotionally and realize this has a good chance of harming you in unexpected ways on top of the usual expected ways.
Fathertime!
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I will disagree with your statement on biases/prejudices.
I am not fully familiar with your story, but did read your last timelines She allegedly had surgery, and managed to marry and have two children between the time you parted in 2006 to when you began communicating again in 2013. So, in 7 or so years, she managed to:
a) get over her love for you enough to meet and marry another man;
b) have two sons with that man;
c) reconnect with you, while dealing with the death of a parent she missed so much, she chose him over you, the demise of her marriage, and the well being of her sons.
I happen to have the experience of marrying a man who my parents did not wish me to marry. My MIL was also vehemently against our marriage because I am a foreigner. I also could speak the language fluently, understood the culture, and my better half could, when he arrived, speak English.
While individuals are different, I do not believe that if true love had existed between you, she would have married someone else. Realistically, as a mother of two sons, in Ukraine, her life is over. The chance of remarriage to a UM is not impossible, but minimal. She does not have a lot of options in Ukraine. That will not be the case when she lands in the U.S. Please consider how much this, rather than any desire for you, as her other half, is driving her decision to reconnect.
It is, of course, your life and your decision. However, your post indicates you are not being realistic. Fine if it was just two of you. But you will be holding the lives of two children in the balance.
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If she was an American, the dump her chorus would be louder.
Also what does the Holy Spirit say about shagging someone else's wife?
You are making this weird for the kids you claim to care about.
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Also what does the Holy Spirit say about shagging someone else's wife?
However, that act does not contravene the RWD Ten Commandments !
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Also what does the Holy Spirit say about shagging someone else's wife?
I can't see that he has or is planning to shag anyone's wife.
1. Most anyone in any form of mental health will agree that kids are better off raised in 2 parent homes with both the influence of a male and female.
2. Women with two children are not in demand in the FSU. Her life there will be of a single mother struggling to get buy.
3. Ukraine is not a great place to be right now and she lives in one of the most polluted places in Ukraine.
4. The kids future will be much brighter in the USA than in Ukraine.
5. In the few hours I have spent face to face with Doug he seems like an intelligent, calm, kind, caring person who will try hard to be a good husband and step father.
6. Having a family with a step parent can create authority problems and issues for both the children and the couple but sometimes it does work well and when it does it can be a far better environment for a stable family life.
What conclusions I draw from this.
1. There is a very, very high probability that children will have a far better life with more of a chance of a good future should this work.
2. There is a very high probability that Larisa will have a far better and happier life than she would have otherwise.
3. Doug is so in love that even though he could find a pretty girl with less baggage he would not be as happy as he will be by seeing this through. I see far less risk for Larisa and the kids than some of you seem to but I do see risk for Doug. I however don't think Doug would ever truly be happy if he didn't follow his dream and do his best to make this work.
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I can't see that he has or is planning to shag anyone's wife.
1. Most anyone in any form of mental health will agree that kids are better off raised in 2 parent homes with both the influence of a male and female.
2. Women with two children are not in demand in the FSU. Her life there will be of a single mother struggling to get buy.
3. Ukraine is not a great place to be right now and she lives in one of the most polluted places in Ukraine.
4. The kids future will be much brighter in the USA than in Ukraine.
5. In the few hours I have spent face to face with Doug he seems like an intelligent, calm, kind, caring person who will try hard to be a good husband and step father.
6. Having a family with a step parent can create authority problems and issues for both the children and the couple but sometimes it does work well and when it does it can be a far better environment for a stable family life.
What conclusions I draw from this.
1. There is a very, very high probability that children will have a far better life with more of a chance of a good future should this work.
2. There is a very high probability that Larisa will have a far better and happier life than she would have otherwise.
3. Doug is so in love that even though he could find a pretty girl with less baggage he would not be as happy as he will be by seeing this through. I see far less risk for Larisa and the kids than some of you seem to but I do see risk for Doug. I however don't think Doug would ever truly be happy if he didn't follow his dream and do his best to make this work.
Turbo, I hope for his own sake that things turn out okay.
We knew of this couple in a similar situation. The guy is a research scientist with the Department of health and makes good money, is in great shape and rather young. She is a knockout and they seemed to fit nicely. She also had two kids in UA and regardless of her hotness, was not a marrying candidate. Once she got her residence card, she left him with the kids to have fun with her boyfriend.
Indeed, Amor Vincit Omnia.
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Being in sound mind and full of common sense I ask you to shut the door on this relationship. Yes, relationships are work with much compromise. But they progress easy compared to your situation. All the issues and drama is not normal as much as you would like to think. This is not the type of "hard work" people refer to in dating and marriage.
Now a little information on a good possibility of what you are up against. There are cases of foreign woman coming on a K1 or other marriage visa and becoming a US citizen in about 3 years. If she stays married to the same man this is very possible. They then divorce. She resumes relationship with foreign ex husband with possible marriage. As US citizen she will find a way to have ex husband join her and children in the US.
P.S. During the 3 years of marriage she will spend as much time as allowed visiting her home country.
You can find better
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I can't see that he has or is planning to shag anyone's wife.
1. Most anyone in any form of mental health will agree that kids are better off raised in 2 parent homes with both the influence of a male and female.
2. Women with two children are not in demand in the FSU. Her life there will be of a single mother struggling to get buy.
3. Ukraine is not a great place to be right now and she lives in one of the most polluted places in Ukraine.
4. The kids future will be much brighter in the USA than in Ukraine.
5. In the few hours I have spent face to face with Doug he seems like an intelligent, calm, kind, caring person who will try hard to be a good husband and step father.
6. Having a family with a step parent can create authority problems and issues for both the children and the couple but sometimes it does work well and when it does it can be a far better environment for a stable family life.
What conclusions I draw from this.
1. There is a very, very high probability that children will have a far better life with more of a chance of a good future should this work.
2. There is a very high probability that Larisa will have a far better and happier life than she would have otherwise.
3. Doug is so in love that even though he could find a pretty girl with less baggage he would not be as happy as he will be by seeing this through. I see far less risk for Larisa and the kids than some of you seem to but I do see risk for Doug. I however don't think Doug would ever truly be happy if he didn't follow his dream and do his best to make this work.
Very well written Turbo and very logical. I agree 100% about the children having a much brighter future. :clapping:
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Being in sound mind and full of common sense I ask you to shut the door on this relationship. Yes, relationships are work with much compromise. But they progress easy compared to your situation. All the issues and drama is not normal as much as you would like to think. This is not the type of "hard work" people refer to in dating and marriage.
Now a little information on a good possibility of what you are up against. There are cases of foreign woman coming on a K1 or other marriage visa and becoming a US citizen in about 3 years. If she stays married to the same man this is very possible. They then divorce. She resumes relationship with foreign ex husband with possible marriage. As US citizen she will find a way to have ex husband join her and children in the US.
P.S. During the 3 years of marriage she will spend as much time as allowed visiting her home country.
You can find better
Marrying someone with children is always a greater challenge than marrying a woman with no children. A middle aged man looking for a wife over 30 that has no children is not so easy. Not much different in the USA. A middle aged man seeking a teeny bopper, trophy wife in their 20's is another matter. That does not appear what Doug desires. Furthermore, some men actually like children and have no problem with raising step children.
Your comment about the probability of Larissa divorcing him after 3 years doesn't seem logical to me. Her chances of finding a new husband in the USA isn't that great either, considering that she has multiple children.
Assuming that the biological father will grant permission for the children to emigrate as Doug has stated, I think his challenge will be the financial responsibilities he assumes with a new wife and two children.
The only risk I see is the idea that Larissa and her soon to be ex-husband is conspiring to take Doug to the cleaners as some have suggested. Unless there is some evidence to support this notion, I suspect that it is no more probable than any other similar relationship.
For Doug's sake, lets hope he fulfills his dreams and this all works out for the benefit of the new family.
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Very well written Turbo and very logical. I agree 100% about the children having a much brighter future. :clapping:
Would you be saying the same thing about the children if the mother and prospective suitor happened to be Mexicans, or would you be bellyaching about the largess and welfare state enabling things like this to happen?
Your comment about the probability of Larissa divorcing him after 3 years doesn't seem logical to me. Her chances of finding a new husband in the USA isn't that great either, considering that she has multiple children.
Assuming that the biological father will grant permission for the children to emigrate as Doug has stated, I think his challenge will be the financial responsibilities he assumes with a new wife and two children.
1. If this lady is attractive there will be a lot of potential suitors for her in the states, you are mistaken by saying she would not have much market value here. There will be options, some will be not very good, others might be reasonably decent considering.
2. If Photo Guy is unable, or unwilling down the line to take on the financial responsibilities that come with bringing a lady with two small children here, then they have a very good chance of needing governmental assistance of some sort. This means it will be the collective additional burden of all the tax payers. You have bellyached a lot about the 'welfare state' yet when it is someone you have an affinity for that might very well create an additional burden you offer support. Recognize this about yourself, and show a little more reasonableness when others from different ethnic groups have the same issue. :D [size=78%] [/size]
Fathertime!
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I'm doing the right thing and those who disagree are coming from a place of ignorance, often showing their own biases and their own dark imaginings, projecting their own inner issues.
PG, I contend, in this example, dissent is born of history, good sense and experience, not ignorance.
Remember these words, your words from 11th October 2005, approximately 9 years ago This woman is very sweet ....or a very good actress.
I think you came close in your assessment at the time.
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wow ,
what a read of diverse well meaning posts
given my wife had a child i took responsibility for i know the issues pg will be taking on , mixed familys are not easy , but jeez they can be rewarding !!!
pg i dont know you or your history in detail with this lady , but you always strike me from your posts as a decent bloke who has his head screwed on and can think for himself
so ill assume you and your lady are in the best position to have all the facts and mitigating reasons why things went the way they did years ago and the same for how you both have come back together ,
2 kids, finances , divorces, ex hubbys approvals , visas ill assume youve discussed , etc as well
i think only a blind fool would have reforged a relationshp with this lady without some deep thinking going on over the time you have known her , so unlike others ill give you credit that you know your life and understand yourself better than we do ;)
all the rest of us are just stating opinions , and yes often their based on our life experiences, cause thats all we have ;)
so pg given you ''know '' your relationship background better , im tending to agree with turbo on your chances , nothing in life is easy really , work hard at making it work from your side , thats about all anyone of us can do in a relationship ,
we can never control or gaurantee what life will deal out to us , just do the best you can , be the best you can !!
you seem to understand that is what you will need to do , learning as you go is what we all do during life, none of us are born experts, .. if you love them & accept this lady and her children into your life , you will be fine ime
some people with just a small learning experience will tell you dont do it , based on their experience , while some like I/O who have a bigger pool to draw on offer good thought provoking reflection for you ,
me ?/ well i sense from your posts , you have made up your mind long ago to do this , so ill just ask you to give it your 100 % effort , for all of those it involves, yourself, be good to you pg, if this lady really is the ''one '' cherish her , make it as difficult as you can for her to not love you , same for the kids, talk with your lady set boundarys ,etc, they will learn to live and love you in time , dont force it , just live it together ,
time together as a unit will create that which you want you life to be , or it will prove you made the wrong call again , either way you cant control it , just live it and work on being the best you can
have faith not fear, pg
best of luck
SX
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IOW, let us know in 731 days, ok?
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PG-- I have been reading thread with interest. A few have commented that you are a decent guy--and that to me is the key.Do what your heart tells you( after consulting your thinking head!)
You know best here-- and tbh--even if I was privvy to much more of your life--my advice would not change!
Good luck to you all!! :D
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Photoguy,
What amazes me is your commitment to someone whom you have not seen in the eight years after she walked over you.
I suggest that you not jump into this, and instead first spend some time together to build commitment, asking yourself each day: "She did not love me then so why will she love me now?" and "Do I feel her love?"
Best case: Some women very well may be happy marrying and living with a friend and provider. That is the best case. Is that enough, especially when your love is so strong?
Worst case: You know this outcome. Can you accept the failure consequences and go on with your life, feeling fulfilled merely in having made your best effort?
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Tiffanie, are you asking for volunteers or are you offering to pay? Most of the men who have an excellent marriage have dropped off from this forum.
Doug, I would suggest that you find a way to live together for a while first before getting married. I think a Ukrainian divorce can happen quickly.
There is a minimum of three years living in USA for a spouse to get citizenship, but five years for children.
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The opportunity to tell such a story nationally can lead to many opportunities, but we do not offer compensation. Wayne, would you happen to know any of the men who happen to be in such an excellent marriage that you can pass my information to or put me in contact with?
Tiff
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Photoguy,
What amazes me is your commitment to someone whom you have not seen in the eight years after she walked over you.
I suggest that you not jump into this, and instead first spend some time together to build commitment, asking yourself each day: "She did not love me then so why will she love me now?" and "Do I feel her love?"
Best case: Some women very well may be happy marrying and living with a friend and provider. That is the best case. Is that enough, especially when your love is so strong?
Worst case: You know this outcome. Can you accept the failure consequences and go on with your life, feeling fulfilled merely in having made your best effort?
Gator, she did not walk all over me.
A worst case scenario would be for her to continue a status quo in Ukraine.
Her father is gone. Out of the picture. Her mom is supportive of us.
We love each other. I'd hate myself if I walked away from her and her sons.
I won't do that. Many worthwhile endeavors have dangers...
We're both committed to this and we're both tenacious. -doug
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Gator, she did not walk all over me.
A worst case scenario would be for her to continue a status quo in Ukraine.
Her father is gone. Out of the picture. Her mom is supportive of us.
We love each other. I'd hate myself if I walked away from her and her sons.
I won't do that. Many worthwhile endeavors have dangers...
We're both committed to this and we're both tenacious. -doug
Hi Photo Guy,
I remember your story. Is Larisa's English any better now? I remember it was non-existent in 2006
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Gator, she did not walk all over me.
My bad! I was not here when your story unfolded, so I based this statement on what others wrote. Not many FSU women come here with the intent of marrying a bloke and then change their mind.
A worst case scenario would be for her to continue a status quo in Ukraine.
This makes you a white knight, and based on general opinions expressed over 12 years of RW forums, white knights in general do not fare so well once the rescued damsel gets on her feet.
Her mom is supportive of us.
Any mother with a daughter in distress wants her to be rescued.
We love each other.
Great! How do you know? Hopefully it is a stronger love than 9 years ago when she came, saw and returned to UA.
I'd hate myself if I walked away from her and her sons. I won't do that. Many worthwhile endeavors have dangers...We're both committed to this and we're both tenacious.
Splendid! All I am suggesting is to spend time together before filing for a fiancee visa. It has been a long time since you last saw her in person?
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pg,
couple of questions , if you dont mind ?
when was the last time you and her actually spent time together as a couple ?
has your main communication been in person , or via skype/phone etc ?
have you spent any time with her children ?
can you handle it if she walks asecond time pg ?
without knowing more about your situation its difficult to understand your chance of success , even though you seem determined on going on with this
SX
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X, I think you'll find all your questions, except the last one, answered above.
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This:
I can't see that he has or is planning to shag anyone's wife.
1. Most anyone in any form of mental health will agree that kids are better off raised in 2 parent homes with both the influence of a male and female.
2. Women with two children are not in demand in the FSU. Her life there will be of a single mother struggling to get buy.
3. Ukraine is not a great place to be right now and she lives in one of the most polluted places in Ukraine.
4. The kids future will be much brighter in the USA than in Ukraine.
5. In the few hours I have spent face to face with Doug he seems like an intelligent, calm, kind, caring person who will try hard to be a good husband and step father.
6. Having a family with a step parent can create authority problems and issues for both the children and the couple but sometimes it does work well and when it does it can be a far better environment for a stable family life.
What conclusions I draw from this.
1. There is a very, very high probability that children will have a far better life with more of a chance of a good future should this work.
2. There is a very high probability that Larisa will have a far better and happier life than she would have otherwise.
3. Doug is so in love that even though he could find a pretty girl with less baggage he would not be as happy as he will be by seeing this through. I see far less risk for Larisa and the kids than some of you seem to but I do see risk for Doug. I however don't think Doug would ever truly be happy if he didn't follow his dream and do his best to make this work.
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You don't need to adopt them. I've heard (don't know for sure) that if she is in Ukraine then she will need kids' father's permission (unlike how it is in Russia).
For under 16...No permission needed if no father on birth certificate. There is a specific UA form that shows no father present...
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I/O wrote:
"Remember these words, your words from 11th October 2005, approximately 9 years ago Quote<blockquote>'This woman is very sweet ....or a very good actress.' "
Yes, I wrote that. If you know something about the beginning phase of any relationship...
...it always starts with an infatuation stage where each person shows their 'best face'. People can be really good actors and I wasn't just talking about this woman. That's how people are. It takes time to see who they are. You have to realize that 9 years have passed. We lived together for almost three months. She never tried to force anything. She was cautious from the beginning. That made sense to me. In dating and in marriage there are situations where one or both parties are not trustworthy. Judging the relationship from the outside is foolish. If someone tells me I shouldn't trust her, I think it's ridiculous. -Their opinion is based on very little info or insight. I think she's very sweet, spiritual, emotional, and a good match for me. She knows I'd be a good dajka for her sons...
</blockquote>
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K2 visa?
Is there a separate visa application for the K2? for her sons? The K1 process does ask for info about her sons...is that all we need? Very little info out there about K2's.
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I/O wrote:
"Remember these words, your words from 11th October 2005, approximately 9 years ago <blockquote>'This woman is very sweet ....or a very good actress.' </blockquote> "
Yes, I wrote that. If you know something about the beginning phase of any relationship...
...it always starts with an infatuation stage where each person shows their 'best face'. People can be really good actors and I wasn't just talking about this woman. That's how people are. It takes time to see who they are. You have to realize that 9 years have passed. We lived together for almost three months. She never tried to force anything. She was cautious from the beginning. That made sense to me. In dating and in marriage there are situations where one or both parties are not trustworthy. Judging the relationship from the outside is foolish. If someone tells me I shouldn't trust her, I think it's ridiculous. -Their opinion is based on very little info or insight. I think she's very sweet, spiritual, emotional, and a good match for me. She knows I'd be a good dajka for her sons...
A bit of blind luck that this lady had her epiphany just in time to save her family from invading marauders then. :)
Let's hope she manages to get her husband out in time too - it can take a while for her green card to arrive after all... Oh, but there's always the DV route if things really start to heat up there I guess.
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Are you saying she had a sudden epiphany?
Where did you see that? We've been communicating
A lot over the last 2 and a half years. Your
..view is murky.
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Are you saying she had a sudden epiphany?
Where did you see that? We've been communicating
A lot over the last 2 and a half years. Your
..view is murky.
As far as murky views go, I think I'm a lot more objective about your situation than you are, at least as far as events have been described on this forum for the past 10 years or so.
It's fairly obvious to most that you're heading down this road no matter what so, good luck with that. I'll will be happy if I never have to say, "I told you so" but I somehow doubt you're that lucky.
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PG -
I have an unclear picture here, too. But I know from past experience that it is impossible to relive the past. Even with the best of intentions, a woman will always remember the reasons for not having it work the first time. Men go backwards. It is not in the make-up of a woman to go backwards unless she has no where else to go.
I rejoice in your love. But I have had many opportunities to hook up with old GFs. Never did because I knew that some day the things that drove us apart originally would resurface and sink us.
Having said my piece, good luck. And my wishes of good luck are very heartfelt.
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This post is done in the spirit of asking the difficult questions, and hopefully is not construed as "piling on."
She knows I'd be a good dajka for her sons...
Important yet not enough "glue" for a lasting relationship. There must be more. She must feel happy. Feeling grateful is good but no guarantee of happiness.
Ask yourself, is she happy, truly happy, or just grateful.
Few situations are more absurd than watching a grown man do everything possible trying to make a woman happy. She is responsible for her own happiness. It is a litmus test. Immerse a woman in your life and see if she is blue (happy) or red (unhappy). You did that for three months, and she left. That says "red."
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I think she's very sweet, spiritual, emotional, and a good match for me. She knows I'd be a good dajka for her sons...
You left out one important ingredient to make a successful marriage with a woman with kids. Are you a good match for her? Earlier this thread I've read that you loved her before she got married. In the 9 years you've known each other, it seems she chose to look elsewhere for a man. Now there's war and she and kids are in danger. If you want to save their lives, I commend you but don't take advantage of this situation for selfish reasons. Ask yourself if she'd be your wife right now if there wasn't a war going on in Ukraine.
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The (2) K-2's are listed on the same form as the K-1.
You must have been together in person within the last two years. You need proof of that.
You need to write a detailed letter explaining your relationship history.
You need to earn enough money to support a family of 4.
I don't know what the US Embasy in Kyiv requires now, but in the past they required the non-custodial parent to appear in person at the embassy and give permission for the child to emmigrate. If the parent has died, you need the death certificate.
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Thx. Yeah. Knew most of that. Wasn't sure if
K2 required an additional k2 form/petition.
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Are you saying she had a sudden epiphany?
Where did you see that? We've been communicating
A lot over the last 2 and a half years. Your
..view is murky.
LMAO
If anyone has murky views, that would be you.
Seating here on the bleachers I'd say you are 100% infatuated.
IOW, you are not seeing things properly.
I also agree with Ade there is a possibility she is using you to get her family, including her hubby, out of that mess.
Put everything you own in a trust if you have to marry this lady.
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After they come to USA,you get married, and then apply for green cards, you will need to fill out one form for each person and pay something like $3000-4000 in fees. There are also all the medical tests that go with the application and that expense. They will go for biometrics, with more fees. Then to the local USCIS office again for an interview. Adjustment of status takes about 4 or 5 months.
You can probably find a place where the kids can get there shots for free, but you will pay something like $500-$1500 for your future wife's shots. Also, you can figure on dental work.
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I've known her way before the war. Who can you trust? Strangers telling me who to trust or to not trust is absurd.
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You left out one important ingredient to make a successful marriage with a woman with kids. Are you a good match for her? Earlier this thread I've read that you loved her before she got married. In the 9 years you've known each other, it seems she chose to look elsewhere for a man. Now there's war and she and kids are in danger. If you want to save their lives, I commend you but don't take advantage of this situation for selfish reasons. Ask yourself if she'd be your wife right now if there wasn't a war going on in Ukraine.
some facts:
we started to communicate a lot again, about two years BEFORE the war. Yeah, when she was 29 she made the decision to take care of her Papa when he said come home or else. She felt obligated to take care of him. ...I'm sick of defending our relationship. Yeah, I do think she would get back together with me. Yes.
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some facts:
we started to communicate a lot again, about two years BEFORE the war. Yeah, when she was 29 she made the decision to take care of her Papa when he said come home or else. She felt obligated to take care of him. ...I'm sick of defending our relationship. Yeah, I do think she would get back together with me. Yes.
Photoguy, the only persons whose decision matters in this relationship is your own and the ladies. I wish you the best of luck. I also don't think it's a good idea for you to keep discussing anything here.
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...I'm sick of defending our relationship.
Many years ago you got criticized for this relationship. There's not many people who's endured a beating as bad as the one you received. Some of us actually care and wish your lady fought for the relationship more than she's shown. Most people desire to be loved. I sincerely hope you get some when you're married to her.
Photoguy, the only persons whose decision matters in this relationship is your own and the ladies.
Photoguy is in a polygamous relationship?