Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Experienced => Topic started by: Trenchcoat on November 11, 2018, 01:44:27 PM

Title: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 11, 2018, 01:44:27 PM
So I've still been thinking about how to handle a FSW who's decided she wants the opposite of what you want and won't back down, budge, compromise, etc?

I know it is sometimes possible to sidestep the issue, talk you're way around it, avoid talking about it or trying logical reasoning to resolve it. What however after all of that she still stays adamant to what she wants and vice versa. Is there anything else to try? A more simple direct way of resolving the situation she rigidly refuses to move on?
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 11, 2018, 01:56:41 PM
Could you be a little more specific as to what it is she can not compromise on..
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 11, 2018, 02:17:42 PM
Could you be a little more specific as to what it is she can not compromise on..

Could be anything, where to meet up, what way around something will happen. Take for example a girl I was with last year. She wanted to see me in the UK next but point blank refused to see me in her housetown. The discussion with it all went around in circles and got no where. She would not budge at all no matter what I said. I tried to tell he'd that getting a UK visa is a difficult, most probably impossible matter for a young girl who works in retail, spouse visa much easier. So that it would be better & easier for me to visit her in her home town (we met in Kiev originally as more going on there than Kherson where she is from).

Now reasons of it may be this or that aside I kind of find that FSW tend to be very obestinate when they settle upon something. Not just the girls I have met but others on this forum too.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Boethius on November 11, 2018, 03:12:44 PM
This is a stupid question, devoid of the understanding that every woman is an individual, with her own unique perspectives and methods of resolving interpersonal conflict.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 11, 2018, 03:24:10 PM
This is a stupid question, devoid of the understanding that every woman is an individual, with her own unique perspectives and methods of resolving interpersonal conflict.

'Adamantly Obstinate' is a phrase I think applies to most FSW :)
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Boethius on November 11, 2018, 03:26:26 PM
No it doesn't, and I say that knowing probably 20 times more FSUW than do you, even lived in close quarters with dozens over the years.


However, if this is what you believe, then why are you seeking one?
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 11, 2018, 03:44:54 PM
No it doesn't, and I say that knowing probably 20 times more FSUW than do you, even lived in close quarters with dozens over the years.


However, if this is what you believe, then why are you seeking one?

Well you're a woman not a man so you would likely not come across this woman to woman. I think it is more a woman to man interaction thing.

For me it is dealing with this one awkward issue as a potential stubbing bloxk as opposed to dealing with potentially many awkward issues in Western Women, well the dregs with mental problems left on sites like Match at any rate.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Boethius on November 11, 2018, 03:56:25 PM
LOL.  Human traits are not so easily hidden.  The fact you even post this suggests you don't know the human condition very well.


Hmm, dregs  - does that include you?
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: krimster2 on November 11, 2018, 04:07:14 PM
Trench

you have the wrong approach...

you NEVER argue with your girl friend/spouse
NEVER about anything!!!

your role is to make sure SHE has a good time...
so that later she will show her appreciation to you
and then YOU will have a good time...

your good time is watching and making sure she has a good time
I truly do ENJOY making a woman happy
because I am in total anticipation of her future display of gratitude
(how do you think she will do that Trench?)

there’s no way of getting around the fact that this enterprise requires money Trench
to do it right, it sometimes requires a lot...
without a few thousand sterling that you can just spend whenever you want without worrying about it, I don’t know if it’s the right thing for you...

I am totally old skool as well
to me, you just walk right up to em and say “howdy”
oddly enough, I found that Kyiv and elsewhere you can just walk up to the hottest looking women, and talk to them for a few minutes and ask them out

my first dates in Kyiv were the cutest sweetest college girls you could ever imagine
I met them in the University, probably 1 out 4 of the students at Taras would be considered hot looking and is a great place to go and check them out

just for you Trench
here are the pics of my first girl fiends in Kyiv
both students at Taras Shavchenko Univ that I met on campus (it's a totally funky lookin place!)
just the sweetest, most natural girls, I ever met
and physically the most perfect erotic specimens of womanhood I had ever seen
they had a devastating effect on me
imagine one of these girls curled up naked in your lap...
 


Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 11, 2018, 04:26:13 PM
Hmm, dregs  - does that include you?

Oh bitchy!
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Boethius on November 11, 2018, 04:29:33 PM
No, it is a fair question.  If every single woman on a dating site is somehow "lacking", then surely, every man is also somehow "lacking".


I doubt the above is the case, so then, you have to look inward, to determine what, in you, is attracted to, or attracts, "dregs".
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 11, 2018, 04:38:04 PM
Trench

you have the wrong approach...

you NEVER argue with your girl friend/spouse
NEVER about anything!!!

your role is to make sure SHE has a good time...
so that later she will show her appreciation to you
and then YOU will have a good time...

your good time is watching and making sure she has a good time
I truly do ENJOY making a woman happy
because I am in total anticipation of her future display of gratitude
(how do you think she will do that Trench?)

there’s no way of getting around the fact that this enterprise requires money Trench
to do it right, it sometimes requires a lot...
without a few thousand sterling that you can just spend whenever you want without worrying about it, I don’t know if it’s the right thing for you...

I am totally old skool as well
to me, you just walk right up to em and say “howdy”
oddly enough, I found that Kyiv and elsewhere you can just walk up to the hottest looking women, and talk to them for a few minutes and ask them out

my first dates in Kyiv were the cutest sweetest college girls you could ever imagine
I met them in the University, probably 1 out 4 of the students at Taras would be considered hot looking and is a great place to go and check them out

just for you Trench
here are the pics of my first girl fiends in Kyiv
both students at Taras Shavchenko Univ that I met on campus (it's a totally funky lookin place!)
just the sweetest, most natural girls, I ever met
and physically the most perfect erotic specimens of womanhood I had ever seen
they had a devastating effect on me
imagine one of these girls curled up naked in your lap...

Wow, those girls are pretty nice looking Krim, I bet you sure did enjoy you're time with them :)

Yeah, your definitely right on the not arguing with them thing, a reasoned discussion is fine but the moment it decends into arguing it's a downward spiral. Arguing with a FSW I have learnt is a pointless endeavour that achieves nothing and only damages the relationship and if done enough irreparably. Hence why I ask the question how else it can be resolved.

I know the girl I met last year seemed very much along the lines of you buy her clothes & you're rewarded later. There was no formal agreement as such it was just the way things were. I'm not sure if all FSW are like this though. Some guys here such as 2tallbill seem to have gotten FSW that aren't so geared that way on that they don't need to buy them stuff alot. I'm sure a lot of Ukrainian men are too skint to buy their ladies much if anything at all. Compared to the I no doubt have a lot more spending power.

Do you think a FSW may be more compromisable if I were to treat her? or just the same?
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Boethius on November 11, 2018, 04:40:27 PM
If you want a relationship built on what you can "buy", then you are going to have to up your game significantly. 
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 11, 2018, 04:41:15 PM
No, it is a fair question.  If every single woman on a dating site is somehow "lacking", then surely, every man is also somehow "lacking".


I doubt the above is the case, so then, you have to look inward, to determine what, in you, is attracted to, or attracts, "dregs".

The men may not be on the top league so far as women judge men but most have not got bizarre mental problems.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: krimster2 on November 11, 2018, 04:41:51 PM
"Do you think a FSW may be more compromisable if I were to treat her? "

yes, but life is always give and take
better to arrive at a deeper understanding of a woman
why she likes what she likes
why she wants what she wants
you do that by asking nicely...
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 11, 2018, 04:43:44 PM
If you want a relationship built on what you can "buy", then you are going to have to up your game significantly.

Indeed, I already had that and feared I might run out off money long before marrying, having kids with the girl, etc.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Boethius on November 11, 2018, 04:45:41 PM
The men may not be on the top league so far as women judge men but most have not got bizarre mental problems.

I highly doubt that of the thousands of WW listed on a dating website, every single one has mental problems.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: 2tallbill on November 11, 2018, 05:09:32 PM
Some guys here such as 2tallbill seem to have gotten FSW that aren't so geared that way on that they
don't need to buy them stuff alot. I'm sure a lot of Ukrainian men are too skint to buy their ladies much
if anything at all. Compared to the I no doubt have a lot more spending power.

Do you think a FSW may be more compromisable if I were to treat her? or just the same?

Trench,

I got Angel Eyes to fall in love with me. That is a step you are trying to bypass. I talked to
Angel Eyes extensively every chance I could which is another step you are trying to bypass.
You won't find a girl like Angel Eyes because you can't skip steps with good girls. They will
kick you to the curb and move on. The girls who are left aren't the ones you would want. 

Put your index finger on your forehead and then you will have identified the problem.

Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 11, 2018, 10:13:58 PM
Could be anything,


And you will have to judge it  on a  case by case basis. Re the example with  visiting the UK vs. visiting Ukraine.THere was a good chance she was embarrassed about her living accomodations, or parents (could be a drinking problem with mom or dad etc).   It was easy to resolve, there was no point  for argueing - you should have let her try and get a visa.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 12, 2018, 04:10:49 AM
Trench,

I got Angel Eyes to fall in love with me. That is a step you are trying to bypass. I talked to
Angel Eyes extensively every chance I could which is another step you are trying to bypass.
You won't find a girl like Angel Eyes because you can't skip steps with good girls. They will
kick you to the curb and move on. The girls who are left aren't the ones you would want. 

Put your index finger on your forehead and then you will have identified the problem.

You could well be right there Bill, I normally ask about the usual stuff, hobbies, Interests, family, holidays, pets, etc, etc but I don't think I often get deep enough with many a subject or the girls life in general. I quite often start running dry of stuff to say/ask quite possibly repeating myself of trying to rack my brain for something we haven't talked about yet.

Getting to a place where I feel I really know the girl her inner life and somewhat connected to it is I think a hurdle I haven't jumped over yet with a FSW. How to do this I havent been quite sure other than spending time where she lives. I think Krimster's advice may help with getting more out of a girl,

"better to arrive at a deeper understanding of a woman why she likes what she likes why she wants what she wants"

Do you think?
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 12, 2018, 04:18:13 AM

And you will have to judge it  on a  case by case basis. Re the example with  visiting the UK vs. visiting Ukraine.THere was a good chance she was embarrassed about her living accomodations, or parents (could be a drinking problem with mom or dad etc).   It was easy to resolve, there was no point  for argueing - you should have let her try and get a visa.

I know she lived in a concrete tower/tenement block like many Ukrainians. When I brought up a general conversation about this architecture she almost kind of whinced/ seemed uneasy so it could well be. She lived with her brother & sister on law so it was apparently not an easy situation. That said I wouldn't have minded not visiting where she lived just the city though perhaps it still made it too close to home for her. Apparently there is not a lot to Kherson so she did query with me why I wanted to go there/what I would be doing there.

Yeah I think with hindsight applying for a visa would have been the easiest option despite her almost certainly not being able to get it so pointlessly throwing away more money.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: krimster2 on November 12, 2018, 07:07:59 AM
Trench,

let me explain to you, how I think you were beginning to be on “the road to success”
but got side-tracked...

you got past the initial meet, ok, GOOD!

but you fell short at the next step, because of two issues...

1. lack of money
2. lack of understanding

if it’s within reason, you ALWAYS get for her what she wants!

she wants to come to the UK, you send her money to apply for a visa and pay for all her travel expenses
and of course she will “be staying with you” (“wink” “wink”)

then you ask her, what should we do if you can’t get a visa to the UK
and you have a backup plan - my favorite would be Istanbul, but she MIGHT be able to get an EU visa, in which case suggest Amsterdam!

the lack of understanding relates to how UW communicate or not communicate
they are NOT very good at a “dialog” type of communication, especially if there is a significant language issue. 

women communicate to men through their emotions...
you need to read them the way you “read the sky” to determine the weather

in your case...
either this woman DID NOT want to bring you to her home
either because there is something she didn’t want YOU to see
or she didn’t want someone to see YOU
alternatively, the woman has never been out of Ukraine, and part of her desire for hooking up with a foreigner is to travel...

Trench, these women will always “pay you back” in their own way
for whatever you do for them
it’s how this works

if you ain’t got no “quid”
don’t expect any “quo” bruv





Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 12, 2018, 02:29:42 PM
Trench,

let me explain to you, how I think you were beginning to be on “the road to success”
but got side-tracked...

you got past the initial meet, ok, GOOD!

but you fell short at the next step, because of two issues...

1. lack of money
2. lack of understanding

if it’s within reason, you ALWAYS get for her what she wants!

she wants to come to the UK, you send her money to apply for a visa and pay for all her travel expenses
and of course she will “be staying with you” (“wink” “wink”)

then you ask her, what should we do if you can’t get a visa to the UK
and you have a backup plan - my favorite would be Istanbul, but she MIGHT be able to get an EU visa, in which case suggest Amsterdam!

the lack of understanding relates to how UW communicate or not communicate
they are NOT very good at a “dialog” type of communication, especially if there is a significant language issue. 

women communicate to men through their emotions...
you need to read them the way you “read the sky” to determine the weather

in your case...
either this woman DID NOT want to bring you to her home
either because there is something she didn’t want YOU to see
or she didn’t want someone to see YOU
alternatively, the woman has never been out of Ukraine, and part of her desire for hooking up with a foreigner is to travel...

Trench, these women will always “pay you back” in their own way
for whatever you do for them
it’s how this works

if you ain’t got no “quid”
don’t expect any “quo” bruv

Thanks Krimster, kind of wish you were around at the time it was happening as would have been a lot clearer to me as at the time was all a bit strange to me.

So I'm guessing then a girl (FSW) generally needs to like you if she's asking you for stuff (I mean not real expensive stuff like 5-10,000 pound or dollar jewellery) at a reasonable(ish) price then she'll know that she will be returning the gesture in kind later that night or whenever. So if girl was not into you then she would not ask for stuff as otherwise you might expect what she doesn't want to give?

This of course tends to be very different in the UK, I'm not saying some girls don't kind of do this but it seems far less of a general convention. Here gifts or stuff can be asked for without anything intimate expected in return.

I think you are right as to my understanding of FSW, it has been getting better along the way. I kind of thought after girl last year that arguing with girl is thing to avoid so it's good to hear you saying the same as I think I'm going along the right track now. Your point on them not being into dialog also chimes with the girl I was with last year and most of them I met I guess. I appreciate your input on that it's certainly a point for me to remember and adjust for.

The money side too, well I'm working on that and hope for some uplift next year on that. With the girl last year it was starting to be a case of not knowing how long I would have to stump up and also if she was just taking me for a ride ( not literally ;) ) If it were a girl in the west many would deem it as that so what you say is a new concept for me since you've come on here. It's great to have someone on here that know the culture well and you're a real asset to have on RWD Krimster  :)
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 12, 2018, 02:54:43 PM
Oh, Amsterdam wouldn't have worked with her though as she didn’t like smoking/pot smoking. I am not a fan either though Amsterdam is such a lovely place I would put up with it. Copenhagen is also a favourite of mine, a little like Amsterdam but without the casual weed smoking. Copenhagen has a very clean feel and a lot of English speakers too. Only ever been to Istanbul Airport but would love to explore the city, maybe this year perhaps :)
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 12, 2018, 02:55:33 PM

So I'm guessing then a girl (FSW) generally needs to like you if she's asking you for stuff (I mean not real expensive stuff like 5-10,000 pound or dollar jewellery) at a reasonable(ish) price then she'll know that she will be returning the gesture in kind later that night or whenever. So if girl was not into you then she would not ask for stuff as otherwise you might expect what she doesn't want to give?



 THis is one step short of  prostitution what you describe.  Yuk..
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: krimster2 on November 12, 2018, 04:42:17 PM
THis is one step short of  prostitution what you describe.  Yuk..

and of course, has nothing at all in commo with using sex to get a K1 Visa, Green card and becoming a citizen of the USA
nothing at all in common....

Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: krimster2 on November 12, 2018, 04:49:40 PM
“ So if girl was not into you then she would not ask for stuff as otherwise you might expect what she doesn't want to give?

this is basically correct

the whole “art” which is something you learn from experience
is to learn when a girl is “open” to you, and how to recognize it
once you do that the rest is easy
my experience is that the majority in Ukraine WANT to have this kind of experience

yes, in UK girls can ask for presents with nothing in return, just like USA
but that does not fly in Ukraine
so this never really caught on there
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 12, 2018, 05:44:22 PM
“ So if girl was not into you then she would not ask for stuff as otherwise you might expect what she doesn't want to give?

this is basically correct

the whole “art” which is something you learn from experience
is to learn when a girl is “open” to you, and how to recognize it
once you do that the rest is easy
my experience is that the majority in Ukraine WANT to have this kind of experience

yes, in UK girls can ask for presents with nothing in return, just like USA
but that does not fly in Ukraine
so this never really caught on there

Ah good news. Nothing wrong with a girl wanting to whore herself out a little :D So sounds like a case of give her all carrot within reason and no stick.

So how do you know if a girl you want under this type of set up will remain loyal?
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: krimster2 on November 12, 2018, 06:22:31 PM
"So how do you know if a girl you want under this type of set up will remain loyal?"


in what way?
there's generally never any competition in Ukraine
and as long as you pour the wine
they will drink it...

it's opposite land in Ukraine
she's the one who will feel insecure
not you

you have to deal with other problems
like if they try and trap you by getting pregnant
and how to back out of a relationship you no longer want to maintain

this kind of relationship can have a future if you let it
in my case these girls were WAY to young for anything other than "sport"
in the end the right thing to do was to throw them back into the sea
and it's what I did, first time was done with a LOT of tears, but I got better at it
and THEN
the woman I was chasing
CAUGHT ME!!!






Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: msmob on November 12, 2018, 09:29:29 PM
Ah good news. Nothing wrong with a girl wanting to whore herself out a little :D So sounds like a case of give her all carrot within reason and no stick.

So how do you know if a girl you want under this type of set up will remain loyal?

I think I got where Trenchie is going wrong ... do you link the tosh you write about women here  to the women you might ( briefly ) chat to ?

It seems you are in contact with the woman you deserve ..

Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: pitbull on November 12, 2018, 10:17:42 PM
Trench,

I got Angel Eyes to fall in love with me. That is a step you are trying to bypass. I talked to
Angel Eyes extensively every chance I could which is another step you are trying to bypass.
You won't find a girl like Angel Eyes because you can't skip steps with good girls. They will
kick you to the curb and move on. The girls who are left aren't the ones you would want. 

Put your index finger on your forehead and then you will have identified the problem.


+100

Trench there are two ways.

1. You buy women and sex, the way krimster does. Prostitution slightly modified
2. You  have enough humanity in you to actually interest a woman beyond your wallet and have her fall in love with you, like bill did.

You can not afford #1 and sure as hell are not capable of getting a woman fall in love with you.

Forget it this is not gonna work, certainly not long term.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 13, 2018, 03:02:19 AM
"So how do you know if a girl you want under this type of set up will remain loyal?"


in what way?
there's generally never any competition in Ukraine
and as long as you pour the wine
they will drink it...

it's opposite land in Ukraine
she's the one who will feel insecure
not you

you have to deal with other problems
like if they try and trap you by getting pregnant
and how to back out of a relationship you no longer want to maintain

this kind of relationship can have a future if you let it
in my case these girls were WAY to young for anything other than "sport"
in the end the right thing to do was to throw them back into the sea
and it's what I did, first time was done with a LOT of tears, but I got better at it
and THEN
the woman I was chasing
CAUGHT ME!!!

Why would they want to trap you by getting pregnant? Wouldn't they be afraid of being left high & dry particularly if you're a foreigner? Single motherhood is apparently a hard way of life in Ukraine I hear, i.e little state hand outs.

If you took her out of Ukraine could there be difficulty her remaining loyal under such arrangements of quid pro quo? It's surely only a matter of time until she realises how much of an upper hand women have in the west?
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: krimster2 on November 13, 2018, 08:40:28 AM
PitBully,

YOU’RE going to talk about Love?....
hahahahahaha
well, hey, at least you’ve moved past your unhealthy obsession with my daughters

LOVE
an intense attraction that involves the idealization of the other, within an erotic context, with expectation of enduring into the future

sure, ok...

been there...
done that...
got the T-shirts, in fact a closet full of ‘em...

this happens automatically whenever a woman moves in with me
I get all the “warm and fuzzy feelings” as well
the shared intimacy
they ALWAYS do their best to be pleasing 

the gift of receiving love
is greater than the gift of giving love
I hand out my share of gifts
because I know I will not be empty handed
and will end up with far more
than what I handed out

i’m not a moralist
i’m not a romantic

i’m a pragmatist
i do what works

my results speak for themselves
so I really don’t need to
let the haters hate
I just laugh at ‘em



Trench
a UW if she is desperate to hang on to you
will use EVERYTHING at her disposal to “chain you”
including getting pregnant
take the obvious precautions
even if she says she’s using birth control
as far as the longevity of the relationship is concerned
that’s up to you
I’ve never had a UW “dump me”
it was always up to ME to determine when a relationship should end

IMHO, i believe a part of that is the age difference
I was 20 yr older than most of my UW girlfriends and 15 yr older than my wife

they ALL had really tough lives, abusive alcoholic fathers
while, I on the other hand, was incredibly sweet to these young women

so of course, my relationship has an element of “daddy issues”
I picked up on this immediately

I was very patient and nurturing
I had them totally “eating out of my hand”

I am a Ukrainian Woman whisperer
once you have a Ukrainian Woman’s lips teasingly take a cookie from your fingers
it means you can do ANYTHING you want with them, later that evening

and keep doing it for as long as you want

Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: krimster2 on November 13, 2018, 12:27:17 PM
"If I like a woman, I have a meaningful relationship with her."


that is DEEPLY profound
sounds like a nice Cary Grant movie that you watch on Bingo night

will you ever be able to forgive me for being different from you
cuz when you distill your argument
it comes down to the fact that you went one way
and I went another way

I am totally happy with the way I went
and would NOT want to go the way you went
but if YOU are happy with what you did
that's ALL that matters
and doesn't matter what anyone else thinks
however, this applies to me as  well
I made different choices from you
I'm VERY happy with the results

and repeat
it ain't brag if it's fact


Title: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: 2tallbill on November 13, 2018, 12:57:42 PM
You could well be right there Bill, I normally ask about the usual stuff, hobbies, Interests,
family, holidays, pets, etc, etc but I don't think I often get deep enough with many a
subject or the girls life in general. I quite often start running dry of stuff to say/ask
quite possibly repeating myself of trying to rack my brain for something we haven't
talked about yet.

I am writing this so that newbies can get something out of it and answering your
questions generically, because you will totally twist or misconstrue whatever I say
to something else.

First you sort through the girls to find one that you are really interested in. Seriously
try not to just pick the hottest girl who responds to you. Find the one who you sorta
click with, one who smiles when you say things, that sort of girl.

Why did I say to sort first? Because it's silly to talk to a girl about deeper things when
it's likely you aren't going to meet and give it a try.

Remember many moons ago when I told you to make a list of what you want? and a
list of what you don't want. The purpose of making a list is so that you focus on finding
and identifying the girl for you because men, left to their own caveman devices will just
go after whoever the hottest or sexiest girl is.

What's wrong with that? If you make a selection solely on the basis of looks you are
ignoring all the stuff that makes a relationship work.

What things annoy her? What things annoy you? What will you do when you disagree?
Look at the title of the thread, what will you each do when you both don't want to back
down? Will it be pistols at thirty paces? Do you want to wait until this happens (because
it will) or do you want to discuss it now and lay out some ground rules and rules of
engagement so that you don't find yourself in a divorce attorney's office with a fork
stuck in your eye.

What are your theories on children? Do you want 11, with 4 boy and 7 girls? Who
is in charge of the discipline? What should the discipline be? Do they stand in the
corner until age 8 then get grounded until age 17? What crime gets what punishment?

What happens if an existing child talks back to her? or to you? What do existing children
call you or her? Are you Daddy? or are you just the ATM? What happens when a child
gets bad grades? or plays with their phone rather than do their school work? What happens
if a child says you are lying about something? Children are experts at creating wedges
between parents and step parents.

There will be arguments when you are 100% innocent. She thought you said X when you
actually said Y but she didn't understand one of the important distinguishing words and
context that you used so she assumed the worst.

What food goes into the refrigerator? What food goes into the cupboards? Think this is
trivial? It's not. What will you do if she is popping grapes into your mouth while talking
about her day, then without warning you get a chunk of raw bacon popped in. It's
happened to me.

There are ten thousand things to discuss and then if you can't think of another ten thousand
immediately then somethings wrong.

I was married before and I was miserable. When I got my divorce I decided that I wasn't
going to marry any woman again. I was going to marry THE WOMAN for me. How do
you find the woman is that you look for her until you find her, and then you win her
heart. 


New thread topics suggestions:

How do you avoid feeding your inner natural caveman? 
How do you find the girl?
How do you win her heart?
How do you become a man of action?


Getting to a place where I feel I really know the girl her inner life and somewhat connected
to it is I think a hurdle I haven't jumped over yet with a FSW. How to do this I haven't been
quite sure other than spending time where she lives.

FSUW want a man of action. If you think that this girl might be the girl get on a plane you
live in Europe for crying out loud.

Notice how I worded that sentence above. "If you think this might be the girl." 
I didn't write if "you know for sure this is the girl." It better to jump on a plane a
day too soon rather than a day too late.

Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Davo2 on November 13, 2018, 01:13:02 PM
Krim, aren't you worried your wife will come across these posts?.... Given the animated Bunny ears and smart phone,  you must have hooked up with this girl recently.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: krimster2 on November 13, 2018, 01:32:40 PM
nope not worried
she's seen the pic
the pic is actually pretty old
girl is now married and lives in Italy
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: pitbull on November 13, 2018, 01:49:12 PM
Krim, aren't you worried your wife will come across these posts?.... Given the animated Bunny ears and smart phone,  you must have hooked up with this girl recently.

Davo

According to Krim he sleeps around and uses prostitutes and his wife is fine with this :)
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 13, 2018, 02:32:16 PM
Ah good news. Nothing wrong with a girl wanting to whore herself out a little :D So sounds like a case of give her all carrot within reason and no stick.



OMG...
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Boethius on November 13, 2018, 03:10:16 PM

OMG...

This is classic Trenchcoat.  There must be a quid pro quo if he's going to part with cash.  On his last trip, he declined buying his date a package of cigarettes, which would have set him back a whole US$1.25, when he decided she was not for him. 


ETA - No google was used to compose this post.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 13, 2018, 03:41:22 PM
This is classic Trenchcoat.  There must be a quid pro quo if he's going to part with cash.  On his last trip, he declined buying his date a package of cigarettes, which would have set him back a whole US$1.25, when he decided she was not for him. 


ETA - No google was used to compose this post.

There was more too it than that, if you had Googled it then you would have been reminded of that.

A). She lied about how much the taxi had cost her. She said it cost her 200 UAH, for a local on the outskirts of Lviv it would have been more like 50 UAH and she probably did not live even that far out.

B). She demanded that I buy her cigarettes despite my objection. She then asked the waiter to reserve the table while we, i.e 'I' get her the cigarettes.

C). I don't like smoking, if she had cigarettes already and wanted to smoke I would have put up with a bit of it so long as ghe cigarette was not poked in my direction.

So all in all she hit enough of points on my 'no' list  for my to decide that it would be a relationship that would not work. Her instructing me what I would be doing and then making it look I has no choice was thd final straw. I'm not that weak.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 13, 2018, 03:52:34 PM
In other words, you felt abused over, at most, $6, including the cigarettes.

No google was used to compose this post.

It was not the cost, it was the lie over how much the taxi cost. On its own not necessarily a deal breaker but added to the other two issues it meant she was not the one for me.

Besides what's all this thing with not using Google?
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: krimster2 on November 13, 2018, 04:49:08 PM
"It was not the cost, it was the lie over how much the taxi cost"

that was a GOOD call on your part Trench
never be with a UW who lies to you
without trust there is nothing
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Boethius on November 14, 2018, 09:12:58 AM

"It was not the cost, it was the lie over how much the taxi cost"

that was a GOOD call on your part Trench
never be with a UW who lies to you
without trust there is nothing

It was a good call to not take the relationship further.  However, it was not a good call to say figure out your own way home, or to deny her a package of cigarettes.

This post was composed without the aid of google.



Title: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: 2tallbill on November 14, 2018, 10:11:25 AM
It was a good call to not take the relationship further. 

+1

However, it was not a good call to say figure out your own way home,
or to deny her a package of cigarettes.

She arrived to see him, I agree he should have paid to send her home.
I disagree about that he should have spent time or money trying to get
her cigarettes.

Once he made the decision, the sooner she was in a taxi the better. I don't
see how looking for or buying cigarettes as being productive or useful in
any way.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

I used Google Chrome to access the internet and open this page.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Boethius on November 14, 2018, 10:43:39 AM
IIRC, they were having a drink, so purchasing a pack of cigarettes from the bar would not have been difficult, and would have set him back a whole $1.25.

I use Firefox, however, not my point. ;)


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: jone on November 14, 2018, 11:32:36 AM
Hey,

If this were an A-Date gal, she would have had Trench go to get her cigarettes so she could have a private conversation to confirm with the waiter that the restaurant was charging extra money as a kickback to the girl for bringing him there.

Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 14, 2018, 02:11:25 PM
It was a good call to not take the relationship further.  However, it was not a good call to say figure out your own way home, or to deny her a package of cigarettes.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

Its her city! I was the one who wasn't that familar with the place! Lol.

In my defence I bought her a couple of drinks. It was supposed to be just one but then she pushed that a bottle of wine would not be much more for me than a couple of glasses. She then ordered a strawberry milkshake on top and mixed some of the wine in. Couldn't fathom how that would end up tasting :-\ I had a couple of glasses from the bottle. All in all I would say she got enough out of the meeting as it was already.

If I had given her money for the taxi I'm sure she would have been pressing for 200 UAH. I wasn't going to even get into the slippery path of negotiations on that. Odds are she probably didn't even get the taxi there anyway, may have even walked. She walked up to me so if she got a taxi it dropped her off away a bit. The fact that she lied about the cost off it and seemed to be trying to dictate to me what she would get just made me want to bail quick from the situation. Other than that she was slim and reasonably attractive looking, we talked ok a bit, but I don't think she was the one for me.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Boethius on November 14, 2018, 02:15:34 PM
Oh, heavens!  What did that bottle of wine set you back?  US$3?  $4?  If it was a local wine, it would be about $1.  The milkshake was probably about $2, maximum. 

You didn't have to give her 200 hyrvnia, but you should have given her enough to take a cab home. You asked her out.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: SteveInBoston on November 14, 2018, 02:54:17 PM
Its her city! I was the one who wasn't that familar with the place! Lol.

In my defence I bought her a couple of drinks. It was supposed to be just one but then she pushed that a bottle of wine would not be much more for me than a couple of glasses. She then ordered a strawberry milkshake on top and mixed some of the wine in. Couldn't fathom how that would end up tasting :-\ I had a couple of glasses from the bottle. All in all I would say she got enough out of the meeting as it was already.

If I had given her money for the taxi I'm sure she would have been pressing for 200 UAH. I wasn't going to even get into the slippery path of negotiations on that. Odds are she probably didn't even get the taxi there anyway, may have even walked. She walked up to me so if she got a taxi it dropped her off away a bit. The fact that she lied about the cost off it and seemed to be trying to dictate to me what she would get just made me want to bail quick from the situation. Other than that she was slim and reasonably attractive looking, we talked ok a bit, but I don't think she was the one for me.

Somehow I see Trench asking for a receipt from the taxi, notice it is 198,70 UAH, then counting out the money.  195,197,198...go to the waiter to change a 1 grivna note for some coins...198,70!   And then expect some sort of gratitude from the girl that is worth 198,70 grivnas...

Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 14, 2018, 03:13:31 PM
Oh, heavens!  What did that bottle of wine set you back?  US$3?  $4?  If it was a local wine, it would be about $1.  The milkshake was probably about $2, maximum. 

You didn't have to give her 200 hyrvnia, but you should have given her enough to take a cab home. You asked her out.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

The bottle of wine & milkshake came to about £12. It was a fairly posh small restaurant in the city centre in Lviv, along the strip leading up to the Opera building.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 14, 2018, 03:14:59 PM
"It was not the cost, it was the lie over how much the taxi cost"

that was a GOOD call on your part Trench
never be with a UW who lies to you
without trust there is nothing

Thanks Krimster good to see you think the same :)
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 14, 2018, 03:20:20 PM
"So how do you know if a girl you want under this type of set up will remain loyal?"


in what way?
there's generally never any competition in Ukraine
and as long as you pour the wine
they will drink it...

it's opposite land in Ukraine
she's the one who will feel insecure
not you

you have to deal with other problems
like if they try and trap you by getting pregnant
and how to back out of a relationship you no longer want to maintain

this kind of relationship can have a future if you let it
in my case these girls were WAY to young for anything other than "sport"
in the end the right thing to do was to throw them back into the sea
and it's what I did, first time was done with a LOT of tears, but I got better at it
and THEN
the woman I was chasing
CAUGHT ME!!!

What about after you left Ukraine and brought your wife to the USA. Did you have any worries that things would change that she would change in the US? I mean given the amout of divorces, martial breakdowns, FSW dumping the guy when the green card comes through, influence of western society on her, seeing how different US society is particularly how women have the upper hand there. Did you ever feel she would see the deal US women get, how they are and want that also?
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: krimster2 on November 14, 2018, 03:43:06 PM
believe it or not, I never once doubted my wife's sincerity about anything!!!!
and I have never felt insecure with a woman...
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 14, 2018, 03:51:32 PM
believe it or not, I never once doubted my wife's sincerity about anything!!!!
and I have never felt insecure with a woman...

Well I guess she knew you could easily pick up another woman out there and she was your choice out of all the women you had to chose from.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 14, 2018, 04:37:21 PM
What about after you left Ukraine and brought your wife to the USA. Did you have any worries that things would change that she would change in the US? I mean given the amout of divorces, martial breakdowns, FSW dumping the guy when the green card comes through, influence of western society on her, seeing how different US society is particularly how women have the upper hand there. Did you ever feel she would see the deal US women get, how they are and want that also?


This is a very good and  valid question. WE are materialists so our thought process is determined by our matrial environment, in other words we think what we live. Personally after 17 years here I have become a 75% american woman.  I actually  tried not to become  one. I conciously resisted, at least the first 5 years. There are still 25% that is russian in me so deeply ingrained, that I can not claim all 100%.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Boethius on November 15, 2018, 06:43:38 AM
The bottle of wine & milkshake came to about £12. It was a fairly posh small restaurant in the city centre in Lviv, along the strip leading up to the Opera building.


Oh heavens!  £12! (incidentally, you were paying the "foreign" price, unless she ordered a non FSU produced wine)  So, less than 2 drinks in the UK, or about the same price as two coffees in the UK.  I can certainly see why you would take this as a major expenditure on a woman you chose to ask out for a drink!

Culturally, if you ask a woman out, and you can afford it, you buy her the cigarettes, and you give her money for a taxi home.  If you can't afford a taxi, you offer to accompany her home by bus.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 15, 2018, 07:13:51 AM

Oh heavens!  £12! (incidentally, you were paying the "foreign" price, unless she ordered a non FSU produced wine)  So, less than 2 drinks in the UK, or about the same price as two coffees in the UK.  I can certainly see why you would take this as a major expenditure on a woman you chose to ask out for a drink!

Culturally, if you ask a woman out, and you can afford it, you buy her the cigarettes, and you give her money for a taxi home.  If you can't afford a taxi, you offer to accompany her home by bus.

[size=12]This post was composed without the aid of google.[/size]

Possibly it may have been a foreign wine, I'm any case central Lviv is very touristy now so that comes with more expensive prices. Even if it were foreign prices I can hardly sit there arguing the toss I was dating a girl that potentially I might of found liking. At that point she is a stranger to me so owes me nothing. A few extra quid here and there on dating I don't mind if the end justifies the means in which case a few quid means nothing in the longer term. It was for a whole bottle of wine plus a strawberry milkshake at commercial prices of a fairly posh restaurant not a supermarket.

The fact that she was not the one for me,  the way she behaved and that I would not likely suffer any fall out from not getting paying for a taxi meant I had nothing to lose by scarpering quick without pointlessly giving away more money :)
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Boethius on November 15, 2018, 07:24:19 AM
I was in L'viv less than a month ago.  I took six relatives to one of the best restaurants in the city for dinner, and the total bill was CDN$120, not including the tip.  So, I dispute your assertion on prices.


The rest of your post just proves what I have stated.  Your attitude will defeat you.  Whether she was for you or not, you asked her for a drink, and you had certain obligations as a result.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 15, 2018, 03:32:46 PM
The rest of your post just proves what I have stated.  Your attitude will defeat you.  Whether she was for you or not, you asked her for a drink, and you had certain obligations as a result.

Normally I would agree but her lieing to me and her attitude to me in dictating to me what I will buy and when released me from that obligation in my mind. I'm not going to be taken for a fool or be seen as weak. She had two good drinks for free in a nice small restaurant in a nice area of Lviv, she did well enough out of it. For me I'm not obliged to be a mug that is where my obligation ends. What I have learnt is if you let them some FSW will ride the obligation argument for all its worth if you let them.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: msmob on November 15, 2018, 10:56:32 PM
Her LYING to you ?

I'm pretty certain you didn't get what you really came for, as you alluded to stuff and she tested you out and you failed

If you'd been honest with her, you'd never have made the trip as she'd not have wasted her time on YOU ..

Edited to add: Trench is the sort of guy who makes this harder for those that follow him



Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Boethius on November 16, 2018, 07:07:08 AM
Normally I would agree but her lieing to me and her attitude to me in dictating to me what I will buy and when released me from that obligation in my mind. I'm not going to be taken for a fool or be seen as weak. She had two good drinks for free in a nice small restaurant in a nice area of Lviv, she did well enough out of it. For me I'm not obliged to be a mug that is where my obligation ends. What I have learnt is if you let them some FSW will ride the obligation argument for all its worth if you let them.


I will say it again.  This endeavour is not for you.  You are too paranoid about being taken advantage of, you don't understand the culture or the cultural cues, and you don't seem willing to learn from your mistakes.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: What to do if she won't back down?
Post by: Jumper on December 01, 2018, 08:51:52 PM
What about after you left Ukraine and brought your wife to the USA. Did you have any worries that things would change that she would change in the US? I mean given the amout of divorces, martial breakdowns, FSW dumping the guy when the green card comes through, influence of western society on her, seeing how different US society is particularly how women have the upper hand there. Did you ever feel she would see the deal US women get, how they are and want that also?

If you fret over that, then you havn't fallen for her,nor has she fallen for you.


While I may be a hopeless romantic(most poor guys are lol) when I hear* men talk of relationships here it often sounds far more like a business transaction.
While many marraiges probably have some degree of that aspect to them, and marriage is a legal contract, I'd hope it's a minor percent,not major.

My wife was always quite western minded, and certainly became more so after she adjusted to living here.
  That's a positive thing TC. I view it as positive, and more importantly ,she views it as positive.

You have the cart firmly in front of the horse a great deal of the time lol
Worrying over such things will inky undermine your initial interactions with the prospective mrs TC.
  Forget all that and just meet a nice person and see if you like each other! Then repeat until things spark for both people.
You'll have plenty of time and other hurdles after establishing a real relationship,to sabatoge it with such worries.

If there was a market for chick repellent,
Insecurity would be the main ingrediant.

Stop dousing yourself with it.

IF, you meet a serious woman that captivates you, and you her, please dont ruin it by sweating whether she will leave you if Pierce Brosnan (or poor jumper) winks at her in the park ok?

It's highly doubtful you'll be woody harrellson  in Indecent Proposal,so just live your life and try
 to simply enjoy meeting and spending time with someone  interesting.
You may find you'd like to spend more time with them, they may even feel the same, eventually you may mutually decide you want to spend most of your adult lives together.

Just try not to make this more difficult than it is.