Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Odds and Ends => Topic started by: Trenchcoat on March 05, 2020, 11:54:24 AM

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 05, 2020, 11:54:24 AM
Just thought I would start a thread here to get an idea of each member's response to the virus threat (buying of respirator masks, stocking up, etc). Also how it is affecting them so far including any plans to travel and/or date women in the FSU?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 05, 2020, 01:00:35 PM
Just thought I would start a thread here to get an idea of each member's response to the virus threat (buying of respirator masks, stocking up, etc). Also how it is affecting them so far including any plans to travel and/or date women in the FSU?

Mostly I'm just gob-smacked at the fuss some folks are making ... 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 05, 2020, 02:56:18 PM
are you serious?
we went from NO cases at all here in texas
to the first case yesterday, and two cases today, both not far from where I live
and the entire city of San Antonio is on emergency quarantine, because a government quarantined patient who had Covid-19 was accidentally released from the hospital and he then spent two hours at the food court at a local shopping mall...

so we are at stage 1 of the epidemic, people returning from infected zones bringing the disease with them...
hopefully warmer weather will slow the future rate of infection here in Texas and elsewhere
but I suspect the first cases to appear here are just the tip of the iceberg

I am slowly preparing for what's coming, I don't want to contribute to panic buying
where I live, most people are already somewhat prepared because this is hurricane country
and most of the dewds in my neighborhood already have automatic weapons in case we need to establish a "well regulated militia"...

think night patrol with gibbeting outside your community gate of apprehended looters
this will be normal 5 years from now...

when I run out of food..
i'll tell my family that I spent all day hunting in the forest behind my house got a deer and traded it to someone else for food...
but in reality, I'm using the cover of the woods, to stake out other's people's houses...
and when I find one that is vulnerable, I will rob it and kill the people inside and then bring what I robbed back to my family...
hi honey! I'm home!

sure hope my neighbors don't read this!



 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 05, 2020, 04:13:46 PM
Mostly I'm just gob-smacked at the fuss some folks are making ...

Just returned from an ASDA superstore just outside of Cardiff. The hand wash pump bottles and the soap were completely out of stock, all sold out! Never seen anything like it, at least 1 metre wide by 1 meter high and about at least a foot back, where loads of bottle normally are, now nothing. Toilet roll isle was low too about three quarters empty. Fortunately they still had their Asda 12 pack recycled toiled tissue, so stocked up with three lots of them.

Earlier in the day I popped in Wickes and they are all out of the paper masks. Looking online apparently most of them are made in China so they are unlikely to be restocked for some time. China aren't letting anymore be exported abroad and some people there are resorting to wearing bra's cups for face masks, lol.

Anyway, picked myself up some cheap goggles there and a pair of heavy duty gloves in ASDA. I've got enough hand wash to keep me going but some more hand sanitizer would have been nice. Will add to my stock as and when I can :)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 05, 2020, 04:15:16 PM



when I run out of food..
i'll tell my family that I spent all day hunting in the forest behind my house got a deer and traded it to someone else for food...
but in reality, I'm using the cover of the woods, to stake out other's people's houses...
and when I find one that is vulnerable, I will rob it and kill the people inside and then bring what I robbed back to my family...
hi honey! I'm home!
Nice! But if you go after Mooby's house a black eye and the firearm up your ass is what you can expect! 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 05, 2020, 04:27:01 PM
are you serious?
we went from NO cases at all here in texas
to the first case yesterday, and two cases today, both not far from where I live
and the entire city of San Antonio is on emergency quarantine, because a government quarantined patient who had Covid-19 was accidentally released from the hospital and he then spent two hours at the food court at a local shopping mall...

so we are at stage 1 of the epidemic, people returning from infected zones bringing the disease with them...
hopefully warmer weather will slow the future rate of infection here in Texas and elsewhere
but I suspect the first cases to appear here are just the tip of the iceberg

I am slowly preparing for what's coming, I don't want to contribute to panic buying
where I live, most people are already somewhat prepared because this is hurricane country
and most of the dewds in my neighborhood already have automatic weapons in case we need to establish a "well regulated militia"...

think night patrol with gibbeting outside your community gate of apprehended looters
this will be normal 5 years from now...

when I run out of food..
i'll tell my family that I spent all day hunting in the forest behind my house got a deer and traded it to someone else for food...
but in reality, I'm using the cover of the woods, to stake out other's people's houses...
and when I find one that is vulnerable, I will rob it and kill the people inside and then bring what I robbed back to my family...
hi honey! I'm home!

sure hope my neighbors don't read this!

Today the virus is up to 30 to 116 in total and the first person to die of it in the UK, a woman with pre-existing medical condition. Some of those 116 are from the early days and have since been treated and released of course, but it's certainly out there and slowly spreading. People here are panic buying now but it's all been civilized so far as I know.

I think the real mad panic will set in when cases suddenly spike up. That's when all those with masks like myself will come out and put them on. At the moment there's little point as if we are going to be wearing them a while it would be better to avoid doing so for as long a period as possible as it will no doubt get a pain after a few months of it. Of course I would generally only wear it when out of the house.

I'm surprised with your level of economic muscle you aren't in the midst of it all Krim, you could buy up loads of all the essentials now and sell on at a vastly inflated price later. It's likely to only get worse. I may buy up some masks for that purpose but am seeing how the supply goes but with China holding out it looks like it's mostly rubber masks that will be in supply as short as that may be.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 05, 2020, 04:35:15 PM
Between 250,000 and 500,000 people die each year worldwide from the Flu.

3,000 people have died from Corrona virus in three months worldwide.

What's all the fuss about ?

You've far more chance of Flu killing you.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 05, 2020, 04:55:49 PM
Between 250,000 and 500,000 people die each year worldwide from the Flu.

3,000 people have died from Corrona virus in three months worldwide.

What's all the fuss about ?

You've far more chance of Flu killing you.

True, but Coronavirus would probably kill far more if it wasn't for containment. So far Coronavirus has infected far less people. I think if people hadn't bothered with containment it would already be a major pandemic.

That said I do wonder if it might have been easier for those with existing health conditions to self isolate and the rest of us just to take our chances and ride it out that way. There's no better fun than a good panic though, lol.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 05, 2020, 05:04:03 PM
Truth of the matter is, of those infected with covid-19, only old farts with medical condition had died so far.

Since, FWIW, the men on this message board don't look their age, or feel 20-25 years younger than their age, methinks no one on this board have anything to be concerned about.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 05, 2020, 06:23:32 PM
Just thought I would start a thread here to get an idea of each member's response to the virus threat (buying of respirator masks, stocking up, etc). Also how it is affecting them so far including any plans to travel and/or date women in the FSU?

I don't need to buy anything now. I don't need to stand in long lines or overpay for items like masks. Life is normal but wife and I are curbing our activities outside the home.

Between 250,000 and 500,000 people die each year worldwide from the Flu.

3,000 people have died from Corrona virus in three months worldwide.

What's all the fuss about ?

You've far more chance of Flu killing you.

Most people in the world get the flu multiple times in their life. WHO now says there's a 3.4% death rate after originally underestimating it at 2%. Their numbers are still low but assuming the rate holds, if 7.7 billion people on earth get this virus once in their lifetime, 268 million people will die. Imagine if we had to live with this virus and get it multiple times over our lives. This virus is related to the cold virus. There has never been a cure/vaccine invented for the variety of cold viruses we get. This isn't a normal cold virus. It's a cold virus on steroids. Could've be genetically engineered to be a bad ass.

WHO right now is asking all countries to put out all stops. Regions experiencing outbreaks have medical systems overloaded. There will not be enough medical personnel and devices to help people breathe if too many people get infected. South Korea is spending 25 billion dollars to fight the problem. A few nations already closed all schools. China shut down their economy and quarantined 760 million people to stop the spread. Humanity can't live with this virus because it will cost us over and over and over again. But governments are doing the right thing to give the impression this virus isn't much more dangerous than the flu. Governments are not acting like this virus isn't more dangerous than the flu though.

Truth of the matter is, of those infected with covid-19, only old farts with medical condition had died so far.


Old farts have a higher chance to die when obtaining any illness. If WHO's 3.4% death rate holds, it would mean this virus is 34 times more deadlier than the flu and that makes it more deadlier for any age group. At least with flus we have vaccines and anti viral medicine to combat it.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 05, 2020, 07:30:34 PM
Truth of the matter is, of those infected with covid-19, only old farts with medical condition had died so far.

COVID-19 could be instrumental in improving the deficits expected in Social Security and Medicare programs.  Just like the Enron traders chanting, "Burn baby, Burn,"  the Millenials will chant "Choke geezer, choke."   :D     
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 05, 2020, 08:35:19 PM
Nice! But if you go after Mooby's house a black eye and the firearm up your ass is what you can expect! 

Fathertime!




 firearms .....?

ME ?

Just my hard head ;)


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 05, 2020, 09:32:11 PM
well it looks we're gonns get a wall with Mexico after all and they REALLY are gonna pay for it...
BUT, it's purpose is to keep gringos out of central America now...
Costa Rica just had its first case...

however, in Costa Rica, normal Flu season is from May to December
Costa Rica is now almost at its highest temperature for the year
my partners and I will probably suspend our Costa Rica project now
so we don't end up being quarantined and cut-off in the future, when there are more stringent travel restrictions....

here, in texas, we've already run out of testing kits, so whenever a doctor or hospital orders a test, the result is, "sorry we have no supplies"....

in the USA we went from 124 cases 3 days ago to 226 late last night...
in texas we went from 0 to 14...

it seems to be more lethal than we expected, also there are two different strains, one more lethal than the other and you can get both

it looks like the growth slowed down today though...



 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 06, 2020, 01:48:43 AM
Business report confirming what I said in the other thread about other airlines potentially going bust over Coronavirus:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51748139

Looking like there could be some big winners & losers in business from Coronavirus.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 06, 2020, 02:00:14 AM
I don't need to buy anything now. I don't need to stand in long lines or overpay for items like masks. Life is normal but wife and I are curbing our activities outside the home.

So far I've managed to buy everything at normal price including my mask without overpaying. This has surprised me as I expected shops to cash in not just go with the normal price they charge. I'm guessing if it turns into a long term thing it won't stay this way though.

Screwfix (DIY trade chain) even had a £1 discount on their paper masks reducing them from £2.99 to £1.99, crazy, they could have easily have charged the going rate, lol.

Panic buying has been going on in the supermarkets and reported in the news this morning. They are still charging normal price here in the places I have been shopping in at least, not sure whether the supermarkets could have cashed in by charging more. Guessing when people have stocked up enough on toilet rolls etc it will ease of them as they can last a while. Hand sanitizers might be ongoing a while though I'm guessing:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51729012
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 06, 2020, 02:22:07 AM
Most people in the world get the flu multiple times in their life. WHO now says there's a 3.4% death rate after originally underestimating it at 2%. Their numbers are still low but assuming the rate holds, if 7.7 billion people on earth get this virus once in their lifetime, 268 million people will die. Imagine if we had to live with this virus and get it multiple times over our lives. This virus is related to the cold virus. There has never been a cure/vaccine invented for the variety of cold viruses we get. This isn't a normal cold virus. It's a cold virus on steroids. Could've be genetically engineered to be a bad ass.

WHO right now is asking all countries to put out all stops. Regions experiencing outbreaks have medical systems overloaded. There will not be enough medical personnel and devices to help people breathe if too many people get infected. South Korea is spending 25 billion dollars to fight the problem. A few nations already closed all schools. China shut down their economy and quarantined 760 million people to stop the spread. Humanity can't live with this virus because it will cost us over and over and over again. But governments are doing the right thing to give the impression this virus isn't much more dangerous than the flu. Governments are not acting like this virus isn't more dangerous than the flu though.

Old farts have a higher chance to die when obtaining any illness. If WHO's 3.4% death rate holds, it would mean this virus is 34 times more deadlier than the flu and that makes it more deadlier for any age group. At least with flus we have vaccines and anti viral medicine to combat it.

I've been wondering the same thing as it seems to fall worst on the elderly, particularly though with pre-existing conditions. If you think of it many nations are sitting on a population crises of too many people. Among them the elderly are seen as holding on beyond the usual time off passing due to better medical treatment these days. They are seen as an economic burden by governments due to pension payouts, medical treatment costs, long stays in care homes, etc. Then there is the environmental and resources impact of having a lot of people on the planet.

Could it be that the virus may have been deliberately introduced in China under the guise of a wild animal trade? I think China were too lax in allowing this virus to spread beyond its borders while putting across the impression they were taking strict action. They should have really closed all airports and travel in & out of China till it was over. May have been a few months but then it would have been done.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 06, 2020, 02:33:40 AM
From 'paper masks' to 'flight bans' Trench's 'thinking' demonstrates he hasn't THUNK.

Before this virus was identified the Chinese were all over the world celebrating New Year.

Italy banned flights from China...

Which Euro nation has it worst?


'Thank you'...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 06, 2020, 08:06:02 AM
From 'paper masks' to 'flight bans' Trench's 'thinking' demonstrates he hasn't THUNK.

Before this virus was identified the Chinese were all over the world celebrating New Year.


More bad info provided by Moby. Chinese New Year was January 25, 2020. Why do you think the number 2019 is in the name of the virus? But yes, they were celebrating New Year even after the virus was detected in 2019. The city of Wuhan gave out 200,000 free New Years tickets in 2020 for their New Year celebration. Probably had to give them for free because rumors were already going around something out there is killing people.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 06, 2020, 08:15:28 AM
well it looks we're gonns get a wall with Mexico after all and they REALLY are gonna pay for it...
BUT, it's purpose is to keep gringos out of central America now...
Costa Rica just had its first case...

however, in Costa Rica, normal Flu season is from May to December
Costa Rica is now almost at its highest temperature for the year
my partners and I will probably suspend our Costa Rica project now
so we don't end up being quarantined and cut-off in the future, when there are more stringent travel restrictions....

here, in texas, we've already run out of testing kits, so whenever a doctor or hospital orders a test, the result is, "sorry we have no supplies"....

in the USA we went from 124 cases 3 days ago to 226 late last night...
in texas we went from 0 to 14...

it seems to be more lethal than we expected, also there are two different strains, one more lethal than the other and you can get both

it looks like the growth slowed down today though...

Premature IMO. This is nothing more than a media fueled hysteria by the powers that be.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 06, 2020, 09:19:28 AM
In China, people start travelling for the lunar holiday in early January.  The "official" start of the Lunar Year this was was January 10.  People start travelling before that date.


The first case of coronavirus was officially reported on December 31.  Wuhan wasn't quarantined until January 23.   So, people did in fact travel for the Lunar holiday (which is a 40 day period in China) before that quarantine, but after the virus had spread.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 06, 2020, 09:57:42 AM
In China, people start travelling for the lunar holiday in early January.  The "official" start of the Lunar Year this was was January 10.  People start travelling before that date.

 Wuhan wasn't quarantined until January 23.   So, people did in fact travel for the Lunar holiday (which is a 40 day period in China) before that quarantine, but after the virus had spread.


Why help Moby? He specifically said " celebrating New Year" not "celebrating prior to New Year." Chinese New Year preparations started Jan 17. New Year celebration begins Jan 25 and ends Feb 4

http://chinesenewyear.net/

The first case of coronavirus was officially reported on December 31. 


That is the day the Chinese government reported they discovered a new virus to WHO. There were so many cases of infected people in Wuhan that a doctor was sounding the alarm on social media before Dec 31. If the doctor didn't sound the alarm and let the cat out of the bag, I don't think China would've reported anything to WHO. China was negligent for allowing their people to gather in large groups for the New Year.

Chinese article below written Sept 18 2019 saying a person was diagnosed with a new kind of coronavirus. As I stated previously, my uncle was on a tour of China and in the middle of November his tour group was scheduled to stop in Wuhan. The Chinese military stopped his train and told them to go around Wuhan.

http://www.ctdsb.net/html/2019/0918/sportsMeet260345.html

Translated version of that Chinese article below.

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ctdsb.net%2Fhtml%2F2019%2F0918%2FsportsMeet260345.html
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 06, 2020, 09:59:42 AM
Just returned from an ASDA superstore just outside of Cardiff.
The hand wash pump bottles and the soap were completely
out of stock, all sold out! Never seen anything like it

Back when I lived in Norf Dekody during the oil boom, I would
go into Walmart with the idea of buying steaks. They didn't
have any meat. They had ox tails and hamburger. No chicken,
no pork, nothing else. 30+ meters of empty refrigerated shelves.

The locals were the worst. It was as if they thought up things to
make things worse. I went into a little store like Target but smaller
and asked about hangers for clothes. The local woman (we called
them Dorothy's*) said that they stopped ordering hangers because
they couldn't keep them on the shelves. 

That was their solution. I went to a restaurant in Watford City at
1:00 pm and they turned me away because they ran out of food. 

I made sandwiches for lunch except when all the stores were out
of bread, which happened all the time. One day I was in the bathroom
at Walmart in Williston which was the always a total zoo. A newbie
was looked at me and said "can you believe they are out of paper
towels!!?"

I could just tell he wasn't going to make it. You wouldn't make it if
you lost your mind when something went wrong. For every 10 people 
who went to North Dakota to work at least half wouldn't make it for
6 months. In the winter it was more like 7 out of 10. 

What have I done to prepare for the Corona virus? I've stopped licking
the caps of Mexican beer bottles before opening them. I wipe the cap
area off with my shirt before it goes to my lips.

*Dorothy's reference was from the young girl from the wizard of oz.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 06, 2020, 10:53:16 AM
I wasn't "protecting" moby.  I merely pointed to the inaccuracy of the riposte. 


The reality is that millions of Chinese had already travelled to their home villages to celebrate the Lunar Year before Chinese officials quarantined Wuhan and other cities.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 06, 2020, 11:18:31 AM
well, Rice University had it's first case yesterday from a traveler,
I told my daughter if cases develop from no known contact source to come home
and be quarantined...

I signed up as a volunteer at Rice to test a lab grown covid-19 anti-body as a potential treatment and got the injection today
i'm not sure if I get the placebo or not, I didn't have much of any reaction yet...
i'm supposed to take my pulse and temp twice per day for the next two weeks and get 4 blood tests

next flu season is when this will rage like an Australian wildfire here in Texas

we are in deep doo doo here folks

and beyond survival.....
poverty always trails closely behind his ole pal plague
expect USA GDP to drop 10% next year
hospitals way past overflowing
a rising number of unemployed people fearing over their lack of health insurance
every market has crashed everywhere with huge losses
all schools, restaurants, public places shut down
global travel severely restricted
and that's just next year....
it's gonna get worse the year after that
and worse the year after that
and worse...

here in the USA...
if this strain of SARS, which was completely unknown ANYWHERE in the world less than a year ago
gets to the same level of infection as the flu
it will infect millions and kill hundreds of thousands
EVERY YEAR

at that point the USA is completely shutdown like Wuhan
and everyone is locked in their house

get the picture now folks?




 



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 06, 2020, 11:22:02 AM
well, Rice University had it's first case yesterday from a traveler,
I told my daughter if cases develop from no known contact source to come home
and be quarantined...

I signed up as a volunteer at Rice to test a lab grown covid-19 anti-body as a potential treatment and got the injection today
i'm not sure if I get the placebo or not, I didn't have much of any reaction yet...
i'm supposed to take my pulse and temp twice per day for the next two weeks and get 4 blood tests

next flu season is when this will rage like an Australian wildfire here in Texas

we are in deep doo doo here folks

and beyond survival.....
poverty always trails closely behind his ole pal plague
expect USA GDP to drop 10% next year
hospitals way past overflowing
a rising number of unemployed people fearing over their lack of health insurance
every market has crashed everywhere with huge losses
all schools, restaurants, public places shut down
global travel severely restricted
and that's just next year....
it's gonna get worse the year after that
and worse the year after that
and worse...

get the picture now folks?

LOL.

I would have loved to read your prose from 1999.   "The end of the world as we know it is upon us.  All computer systems will shut down and we will not be able to draw cash from the bank.  Better stock up on food supplies, toilet paper and firewood.  None of these will be available after Y2K!"
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 06, 2020, 11:25:23 AM
I wasn't "protecting" moby.  I merely pointed to the inaccuracy of the riposte. 

The riposte was not any more or less accurate than your statement here.


Quote
The reality is that millions of Chinese had already travelled to their home villages to celebrate the Lunar Year before Chinese officials quarantined Wuhan and other cities.

That statement actually states nothing nor does Moob's. It's as if you're posting just to see your post. Did you 'thank' Moobs? He apparently is expecting someone to. You can't know especially at this point that when the Chinese travel to their home villages and when the Chinese government quarantined Wuhan to any connection with the virus itself. Again at this point you can not say with any certainty that it was Chinese nationals that caused the rapid spread over the globe

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 06, 2020, 11:26:11 AM
no, just the opposite...
I laughed about it, thought it was a pretty good scam, I knew some mediocre people who made decent money being Y2K consultants
but they were bottom feeders
which is all Y2K was about IMHO...
ahhh, good times...

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 06, 2020, 11:31:47 AM
That statement actually states nothing nor does Moob's. It's as if you're posting just to see your post. Did you 'thank' Moobs? He apparently is expecting someone to. You can't know especially at this point that when the Chinese travel to their home villages and when the Chinese government quarantined Wuhan to any connection with the virus itself. Again at this point you can not say with any certainty that it was Chinese nationals that caused the rapid spread over the globe

People typically start travelling before the "official" period of the Lunar Year, which started January 10. 

The CBC reported heavily on this issue, and did a lot of "man on the street" interviews in China, which is initially how I knew of this.  Since that time, I've spoken to several clients who are also Chinese nationals.  Most have relatives who made it "home" before quarantines were put in place, and anticipated staying there beyond the Lunar Year, which ends in February.

I'll be certain to run all future posts past you to ensure they meet with your "posting standard" approval.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 06, 2020, 11:37:58 AM
The reality is that millions of Chinese had already travelled to their home villages to celebrate the Lunar Year before Chinese officials quarantined Wuhan and other cities.


That is true but the fact is the Chinese government already knew about this virus long before the quarantine and still allowed people to travel around the nation. They even wanted to bring 200,000 Wuhan citizens together the day they announced the outbreak to the world. This is from the Jan 25 article below"

The first case was reported Dec. 8. As the disease spread, Wuhan officials insisted that it was controlled and treatable. The police questioned eight people who posted on social media about the virus, saying they had spread “rumors.”

On Saturday, two days before Wuhan told the world about the severity of the outbreak, it hosted a potluck banquet attended by more than 40,000 families so the city could apply for a world record for most dishes served at an event. On the day it broke the news to the world, it also announced that it was distributing 200,000 free tickets to residents for festival activities during the Lunar New Year holiday, which begins this Saturday.


http://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/22/health/virus-corona.html

Today, 6593 South Koreans are infected by the virus. That makes one out of every 7807 South Koreans are infected with the virus. They were on top of it when it broke out in their nation, unlike the Chinese who dragged their feet by failing to educate people to stay home but instead encouraged people to go out for public events and suppressed warnings by doctors who didn't get permission from the government to speak. China's infection rate among it's people should be worse than South Korea and Italy's but it isn't because of massive under reporting. If China had the same infection rate among it's population as South Korea, with a population of 1.386 billion they should have 177,533 people infected right now but should be more if you factor in negligence, the virus started there and length of time the virus was allowed to spread.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 06, 2020, 11:47:51 AM
So I'm thinking if COVID-19 only kills the elderly with medical condition, what's taking these pathogens from heading directly to Washington DC? It can actually celebrate a 'Spring Break -like' parties in those chambers with all the useless geezers we pay screwing around with our Constitution.

Maybe this is Lady Justice's concoction trying to right what ails the beltway these days.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 06, 2020, 12:00:30 PM

The virus is currently busy destroying Iran's government with 10% of the MPs infected and other officials including the VP infected

http://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/matthewchampion/coronavirus-iran-mps-covid-19
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 06, 2020, 12:31:10 PM
Why help Moby? He specifically said " celebrating New Year" not "celebrating prior to New Year." Chinese New Year preparations started Jan 17. New Year celebration begins Jan 25 and ends Feb 4

 

'Poor' ol' BillyB ..

I've just seen this post - and note he's already been put straight ..

Have the pleasure of dealing with several Chinese firms and none of those ppl have been infected ..




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 06, 2020, 12:32:12 PM
People typically start travelling before the "official" period of the Lunar Year, which started January 10. 

The CBC reported heavily on this issue, and did a lot of "man on the street" interviews in China, which is initially how I knew of this.  Since that time, I've spoken to several clients who are also Chinese nationals.  Most have relatives who made it "home" before quarantines were put in place, and anticipated staying there beyond the Lunar Year, which ends in February.

I'll be certain to run all future posts past you to ensure they meet with your "posting standard" approval.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

The CBC's man on the street and your several clients can speak for an entire Chinese province's New Year travel plans? :rolleyes:  Oh please excuse my speaking out of turn. I'll leave you to your valued sources.

Posting standard? You do seem to post with full conviction. I can't imagine you's need my approval
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 06, 2020, 12:53:56 PM
The riposte was not any more or less accurate than your statement here.



As someone who buys from China - on a monthly or bi-monthly basis - we are advised to place orders and expect them to be shipped a week to ten days before the official break ... as China winds down to a halt ... as many workers are allowed to travel across the nation ..   

http://www.morethanshipping.com/the-chinese-new-years-effects-on-the-shipping-industry/ (http://www.morethanshipping.com/the-chinese-new-years-effects-on-the-shipping-industry/)

Hmm, so much for your latest drive-by troll ..

You can't know especially at this point that when the Chinese travel to their home villages


YUP, 'We' can and do ...


and when the Chinese government quarantined Wuhan to any connection with the virus itself.


Wrong, once more .. Westerners actually live, work and/ or study there ... 23rd Jan..


Again at this point you can not say with any certainty that it was Chinese nationals that caused the rapid spread over the globe

You are on a roll of fails ..

http://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200121-sitrep-1-2019-ncov.pdf?sfvrsn=20a99c10_4 (http://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200121-sitrep-1-2019-ncov.pdf?sfvrsn=20a99c10_4)

Event highlights from 31 December 2019 to 20 January 2020:
• On 31 December 2019, the WHO China Country Office was informed of cases of pneumonia
unknown etiology (unknown cause) detected in Wuhan City, Hubei Province of China. From
31 December 2019 through 3 January 2020, a total of 44 case-patients with pneumonia of
unknown etiology were reported to WHO by the national authorities in China. During this
reported period, the causal agent was not identified.
• On 11 and 12 January 2020, WHO received further detailed information from the National
Health Commission China that the outbreak is associated with exposures in one seafood
market in Wuhan City.
• The Chinese authorities identified a new type of coronavirus, which was isolated on 7
January 2020.
• On 12 January 2020, China shared the genetic sequence of the novel coronavirus for
countries to use in developing specific diagnostic kits.
• On 13 January 2020, the Ministry of Public Health, Thailand reported the first imported case
of lab-confirmed novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) from Wuhan, Hubei Province, China.
• On 15 January 2020, the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare, Japan (MHLW) reported an
imported case of laboratory-confirmed 2019-novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) from Wuhan,
Hubei Province, China.
• On 20 January 2020, National IHR Focal Point (NFP) for Republic of Korea reported the first
case of novel coronavirus in the Republic of Korea.
Situation update:
• As of 20 January 2020, 282 confirmed cases of 2019-nCoV have been reported from four
countries including China (278 cases), Thailand (2 cases), Japan (1 case) and the Republic of
Korea (1 case);
• Cases in Thailand, Japan and Republic of Korea were exported from Wuhan City, China;
• Among the 278 cases confirmed in China, 258 cases were reported from Hubei Province, 14
from Guangdong Province, five from Beijing Municipality and one from Shanghai Municipality;



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 06, 2020, 02:59:24 PM
From 'paper masks' to 'flight bans' Trench's 'thinking' demonstrates he hasn't THUNK.

Before this virus was identified the Chinese were all over the world celebrating New Year.

Italy banned flights from China...

Which Euro nation has it worst?


'Thank you'...

Because of the Coronavirus and the higher payments Italy is expected to pay to the EU as we leave it after the transition period Italy's economy is now predicted to go into recession:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.france24.com/en/20200302-italy-faces-recession-as-coronavirus-hits-economy

Looks like post Brexit Britain will be snapping on the heels of Germany for top spot of strongest economic power in Europe, who would have thought that, hey Mobers :D
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 06, 2020, 03:02:33 PM
Looked in the shops again today, pretty much the same state with more panic buying keeping stocks of toilet roll low and hand was out in most stores, managed to find some in my local Sainsbury's supermarket that still had a reasonable few and some of the decent stuff. More panic buying likely to continue over the weekend I reckon.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 06, 2020, 03:12:15 PM
Because of the Coronavirus and the higher payments Italy is expected to pay to the EU as we leave it after the transition period Italy's economy is now predicted to go into recession:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.france24.com/en/20200302-italy-faces-recession-as-coronavirus-hits-economy

Looks like post Brexit Britain will be snapping on the heels of Germany for top spot of strongest economic power in Europe, who would have thought that, hey Mobers :D

I note you're still a slave to google re your links :(

I note how 'well' UK PLC is doing ..

FlyBe bust  ( some blame apportioned to COVID-19! )

John Lewis going to close stores

Kingfisher ( B&Q / Screwfix - as you mentioned them ) in so much of a tailspin they're out of the FTSE 100 ...

Yup ... 'Trench' is as on the ball, as ever

PS the GBP was 1.15 v Euro ( down from your 'boastful - look at how 'Brexit' is wonderful in Feb ..)  of 1.23, this afo'  ..


 ( it was 1.40 pre the thought Brexit suicide might happen )

Spin on ...   'Project Fear' will be fact ....

Looked in the shops again today, pretty much the same state with more panic buying keeping stocks of toilet roll low and hand was out in most stores, managed to find some in my local Sainsbury's supermarket that still had a reasonable few and some of the decent stuff. More panic buying likely to continue over the weekend I reckon.

I expected your requirements for toilet roll may be higher ... 










Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 06, 2020, 03:41:00 PM


As someone who buys from China - on a monthly or bi-monthly basis - we are advised to place orders and expect them to be shipped a week to ten days before the official break ... as China winds down to a halt ... as many workers are allowed to travel across the nation ..   

http://www.morethanshipping.com/the-chinese-new-years-effects-on-the-shipping-industry/ (http://www.morethanshipping.com/the-chinese-new-years-effects-on-the-shipping-industry/)

Hmm, so much for your latest drive-by troll ..


YUP, 'We' can and do ...



Wrong, once more .. Westerners actually live, work and/ or study there ... 23rd Jan..


You are on a roll of fails ..

http://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200121-sitrep-1-2019-ncov.pdf?sfvrsn=20a99c10_4 (http://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200121-sitrep-1-2019-ncov.pdf?sfvrsn=20a99c10_4)

Event highlights from 31 December 2019 to 20 January 2020:
• On 31 December 2019, the WHO China Country Office was informed of cases of pneumonia
unknown etiology (unknown cause) detected in Wuhan City, Hubei Province of China. From
31 December 2019 through 3 January 2020, a total of 44 case-patients with pneumonia of
unknown etiology were reported to WHO by the national authorities in China. During this
reported period, the causal agent was not identified.
• On 11 and 12 January 2020, WHO received further detailed information from the National
Health Commission China that the outbreak is associated with exposures in one seafood
market in Wuhan City.
• The Chinese authorities identified a new type of coronavirus, which was isolated on 7
January 2020.
• On 12 January 2020, China shared the genetic sequence of the novel coronavirus for
countries to use in developing specific diagnostic kits.
• On 13 January 2020, the Ministry of Public Health, Thailand reported the first imported case
of lab-confirmed novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) from Wuhan, Hubei Province, China.
• On 15 January 2020, the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare, Japan (MHLW) reported an
imported case of laboratory-confirmed 2019-novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) from Wuhan,
Hubei Province, China.
• On 20 January 2020, National IHR Focal Point (NFP) for Republic of Korea reported the first
case of novel coronavirus in the Republic of Korea.
Situation update:
• As of 20 January 2020, 282 confirmed cases of 2019-nCoV have been reported from four
countries including China (278 cases), Thailand (2 cases), Japan (1 case) and the Republic of
Korea (1 case);
• Cases in Thailand, Japan and Republic of Korea were exported from Wuhan City, China;
• Among the 278 cases confirmed in China, 258 cases were reported from Hubei Province, 14
from Guangdong Province, five from Beijing Municipality and one from Shanghai Municipality;


Moobs I've dealt with a lot of morons in my day but never a bigger one than you. You make false claims google and post shit that does not support those false claims and then peacock as if you've achieved something. You're too stupid to realize someone might actually read those lazy links. If you've done anything you've torpedoed your own claims. Your sources are almost as good as Boe's several clients. NOWHERE in your supplied link or in your time line is there a connection to the claim you made earlier or Boe attempted to support you on is valid. Admit it, you made it up.  You buy something from China 2 times a week?

 :ROFL:

Damn near everybody around the world is buying something from China 2 times a week. THERE IS NO CONNECTION TO THE VIRUS OR THE GLOBAL SPREAD OF THE VIRUS connected to the Chinese taking their New Years Holiday.

I am never astounded at the lengths you'll go to state a conclusion and then attempt to make something up to support it. Such a moron
 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 06, 2020, 03:55:11 PM
Governments are not acting like this virus isn't more dangerous than the flu though.

You're quite right Billy they go on about it being similar to the flu but then they go quarantining people who have it, they talk of cancelling large public gatherings, perhaps even any gatherings then don't rule out quarantining whole towns, cities or areas. That is the UK government response and probably most of the west also. So something isn't quite adding up. If it was just people with pre-existing conditions they would just focus on them, no need to upset the whole economy & society.

Could be in for a long haul on this one.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 06, 2020, 05:01:13 PM
Could be in for a long haul on this one.


Everything is getting longer. Right now a 7 day cruise lasts at least 30 days....if you survive that long. After the cruise ship disaster in Japan with over 700  infected including the ship's quarantine officer, I can imagine the regret the passengers off the coast of California feel for not cancelling. If this keeps up, it may be cheaper for cruise ship companies to shut down. Lawsuits aren't pretty.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/vp-pence-says-21-people-on-the-grand-princess-cruise-ship-off-california-coast-have-tested-positive-for-coronavirus/ar-BB10QVn0?ocid=spartanntp

China is faking their recovery citizens claim. The pretend everybody is at work leaving the lights on in buildings when that is not true.  Zhejiang, an province east of the epicenter city of Wuhan, claimed as of Feb. 24 it had restored 98.6 percent of its pre-coronavirus work capacity. Zhejiang is the province that reports 1147 recoveries and only one death a ratio less deadlier than influenza. If you believe the Chinese government, go ahead and visit for vacation or for business. Vacation packages are cheap now.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/chinas-coronavirus-recovery-fake-whistleblowers-191300391.html
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 06, 2020, 05:50:10 PM
Everything is getting longer. Right now a 7 day cruise lasts at least 30 days....if you survive that long.

China is faking their recovery citizens claim. The pretend everybody is at work leaving the lights on in buildings when that is not true.  Zhejiang, an province east of the epicenter city of Wuhan, claimed as of Feb. 24 it had restored 98.6 percent of its pre-coronavirus work capacity. Zhejiang is the province that reports 1147 recoveries and only one death a ratio less deadlier than influenza. If you believe the Chinese government, go ahead and visit for vacation or for business. Vacation packages are cheap now.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/chinas-coronavirus-recovery-fake-whistleblowers-191300391.html

Lol, so funny but true Billy :D

Just think of all those huge expensive luxury cruise ships laying around unused, that's going to hit those cruise companies hard and many may not survive. Doubt they thought that would ever happen. Some big losers in the business world are no doubt going to occur with some investors financially ruined by it I would imagine.

Anyway, Italy has some figures out:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51777049

So approximately just over 4 percent of cases result in death, though Italy has a large elderly population so in other countries it could likely be a bit less, perhaps around 3 percent at a guess, probably mostly elderly with existing medical conditions.

Perhaps they are worried about this virus mutating into something far worse. The bird flu virus at the end of the first world war killed a lot of people but with that one it was the young, mostly under 30 with strong immune systems it hit hardest by turning their immune system against them.

We moved into the second phase of the virus according to the UK government the other day. I'm wondering if they are being fully honest with the general public in what we may be facing.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 06, 2020, 06:08:01 PM

So approximately just over 4 percent of cases result in death,


Here's what the article said. "According to government data, 4.25% of confirmed coronavirus cases have died, the highest rate in the world."

Confirmed cases to dead is not mortality rate. Mortality rate is calculated after the confirmed cases finish their fight with the virus and then placed in the died or made a full recovery categories. Over 700 Italians have finished a battle with the virus. 197 died and 523 recovered for a mortality rate of over 27%  For the almost 4000 Italians currently infected and fighting for their lives, they will soon be placed in one of those two categories. If one person dies out of 4 holds, Italy will soon have over a thousand people dead...if they don't have any new infections to report. Italy's and South Korea's numbers look grim but they are realistic because of honest reporting by those nations.

http://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 06, 2020, 07:51:51 PM
we are now over 300 cases here in the USA, the disease is growing quickly, but is still in the linear growth phase, but most of the new cases are now derived from local unknown sources
I expect to see a lot of things disappear from store shelves by the end of next week...
we are also totally out of testing kits, and this is a catastrophe, the CDC said, the result of recent budgetary cuts

if this thing hits the exponential phase this flu season then we'll have 100,000 cases like China
China's first documented case was in December, late in the flu season
it's likely there were earlier undetected cases that built a reservoir of the disease
that took off when the temp was just right 36-51 DEGREE F.

look at your area, and check for when you have this temperature range
this temperature is the top range of the ideal temp for the virus to propagate
so if it gets even colder it will spread more....

so why hasn't this spread in Russia, you may ask, considering the length of the border and contact points in the far east
is there a reason, hmmmmm........
maybe there is.......





Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 06, 2020, 08:24:01 PM
we are also totally out of testing kits, and this is a catastrophe, the CDC said, the result of recent budgetary cuts


Budgetary cuts and government are not to blame for being out of test kits. Test kits were ordered and made over a month ago but their was a manufacturing defect. Over a million test kits are being distributed this weekend and the manufacturing of them will continue. There's another test that can be done. Swab a suspect person's mouth and take a culture. Send it to a lab. If they don't recognize the virus, consider it COVID-19.

http://techcrunch.com/2020/03/06/trying-to-make-up-for-lost-time-the-cdc-will-distribute-1-1-million-covid-19-tests-this-weekend/
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 07, 2020, 03:58:19 AM
Moobs I've dealt with a lot of morons in my day but never a bigger one than you. You make false claims google and post shit that does not support those false claims and then peacock as if you've achieved something. You're too stupid to realize someone might actually read those lazy links. If you've done anything you've torpedoed your own claims. Your sources are almost as good as Boe's several clients. NOWHERE in your supplied link or in your time line is there a connection to the claim you made earlier or Boe attempted to support you on is valid. Admit it, you made it up.  You buy something from China 2 times a week?

 :ROFL:

Damn near everybody around the world is buying something from China 2 times a week. THERE IS NO CONNECTION TO THE VIRUS OR THE GLOBAL SPREAD OF THE VIRUS connected to the Chinese taking their New Years Holiday.

I am never astounded at the lengths you'll go to state a conclusion and then attempt to make something up to support it. Such a moron

So, just another drive by troll and no facts to support dissing any facts I posted...!

1/ Buying from.China directly...not via (say) Walmart

2/ I received lots of emails from suppliers deliniating their plans for the Chinese New Year, what I could expect would still operate or not...No need to 'Google'...I request quotes 2/ 4 times a week..Gosh, I even talk about how things are for them....

3/ My sources are govt bodies, the World Health Organisation and biz partners who are even better qualified to understand micro biology than I...


'Thank you'
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 07, 2020, 05:03:02 AM
we are also totally out of testing kits, and this is a catastrophe, the CDC said, the result of recent budgetary cuts


Not true as BillyB explained.

You are watching too much CNN.  CNN is purposefully creating anxiety for political reasons, citing any opportunity to purport Trump is not doing his job.     

Krimster - who should know that panic when facing a foe is your worst enemy.  As your anxiety builds, you will not do your job to protect your family, and will instead seek the Bill Clinton therapy from your female acquaintances.  ;D ;D


Quote
if this thing hits the exponential phase this flu season then we'll have 100,000 cases like China

Wrong. if exponential, it will hit millions, not 100,000, and in weeks.  Confirm your exponent; do your calculations. 

Not to fear, the US and its citizens are taking steps to disrupt exponential growth.


Quote
China's first documented case was in December, late in the flu season
it's likely there were earlier undetected cases that built a reservoir of the disease
that took off when the temp was just right 36-51 DEGREE F.


China's first case was quite possibly October, and the sonofabitches kept it secret until the end of December.  Even so, the exponential (logarithmic) phase was short lived in China, based on their reported data.  I showed this earlier, so I surmise you are one of those who ignore scientific research and instead scream "We are going to die!"   This does not help your anxiety. 

Why did China's growth slow?  They interrupted the opportunity for social contact.  Also, people followed preventive measures.  You can choose to do the same. 

Quote
look at your area, and check for when you have this temperature range [ed. 31-51]

Speculation.   Hopefully true, because Florida rarely goes below 51.  :)  Our Florida cases so far (six, including two deaths) correspond to traveling to Italy or China.  One case was diagnosed COVID-19 only after the patient died.  Makes one wonder about the "unknown," yet no reason to panic. 

Quote
so why hasn't this spread in Russia...maybe there is.......

If a multiple choice question and not rhetorical, there are at least 5 plausible choices. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2020, 05:10:17 AM
Here's what the article said. "According to government data, 4.25% of confirmed coronavirus cases have died, the highest rate in the world."

Confirmed cases to dead is not mortality rate. Mortality rate is calculated after the confirmed cases finish their fight with the virus and then placed in the died or made a full recovery categories. Over 700 Italians have finished a battle with the virus. 197 died and 523 recovered for a mortality rate of over 27%  For the almost 4000 Italians currently infected and fighting for their lives, they will soon be placed in one of those two categories. If one person dies out of 4 holds, Italy will soon have over a thousand people dead...if they don't have any new infections to report. Italy's and South Korea's numbers look grim but they are realistic because of honest reporting by those nations.

http://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

You're right Billy, good work! That's a shockingly high mortality rate when you think about it, just over a quarter of all those that have fought the virus to the conclusion have died. I reckon the news services must have been told to avoid giving out the actual figures or at least were just misled themselves with the figures twisted with those still fighting the illness.

I know Italy has a high elderly population but I wonder if all of those 27 percent are elderly with underlying health problems? I somewhat can't help thinking that it surely can't be all elderly with underlying health problems. At around a quarter of people dying from it I can see why the Government are taking it so seriously here now.

Here we have only had 2 people die so far both elderly with underlying health problems. One I think wasn't recieving any medical treatment they just found out afterwards that he had died odd it. I think yesterday's total infected brought us to 167 cases, I can't find any figures for those that have survived it so far, with a two week battle and about roughly 30 saying they have been infected over previous day's each day I guess it can't be more than 30 ish if that, that have gone through it all. So maybe at least 10-20 percent there. Looking too early to tell on the figures as the recent rise is probably mostly only over this past week, in the next week or so if the figures pitch up to anywhere near a quarter of people dying I think that is when you will see people really panic in the UK and no doubt the US too.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 07, 2020, 07:35:56 AM
So, just another drive by troll and no facts to support dissing any facts I posted...!

1/ Buying from.China directly...not via (say) Walmart

2/ I received lots of emails from suppliers deliniating their plans for the Chinese New Year, what I could expect would still operate or not...No need to 'Google'...I request quotes 2/ 4 times a week..Gosh, I even talk about how things are for them....

3/ My sources are govt bodies, the World Health Organisation and biz partners who are even better qualified to understand micro biology than I...


'Thank you'

Facts you posted? If you "could" or ever actually posted a fact I would have no need to diss it. The problem is, you haven't posted one. Your google search only supported something you did not state. That some Chinese folks in the shipping business take off a bit early to celebrate the New Year. That information has absolutely NOTHING to do with what you stated as fact but alas, was nothing more than another Moobs lie. Your need to win a disagreement on the internet and your use of false information in an attempt to do so but BAM, you Mr. Moobs are busted again. But don't let the truth get in the way of your lie
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 07, 2020, 08:19:20 AM
“Wrong. if exponential, it will hit millions, not 100,000, and in weeks.  Confirm your exponent; do your calculations. “

not calculations, just observations, something I'm actually quite good at
EVENTUALLY, if no vaccine is developed, or if some other variable doesn't slow it down it will hit this number, but it will probably take several years to do so
China went from first reported case to “shutdown mode” in about 8 weeks
it currently has 100,000+ infected and it's slowing down due to temp
but this is only the first season....

I expect this to restart “with a vengeance” at the beginning of flu season in October
it really likes a cooler temperature....
if it does get to the million mark, we’re talking a “Walking Dead” scenario

“You are watching too much CNN.  CNN is purposefully creating anxiety for political reasons,”

really? Donald Trump, is that important to you that the whole universe revolves around him does it?
I though only he felt that way...

journalists are trying to warn people....
you know, do their job

look at the current situation in Wuhan...
do you think people here should be warned, so they can prepare
or...
instead you tell them, they can go to work if they have the virus, the virus will disappear, it’s under control
that it’s all just a democratic hoax
these are the words “dear leader” has been promoting...
AND YOU...

you choose who you listen to, and so will I...
I’ll listen to the CDC director, before Trump fires her....

BTW, I am NOT panicking....
I have no fear of dying, I have massive scars all over me, from the many times death tried to snatch me, I know he’ll win in the end of course, but we’re old friends, he and I
we greet each other warmly whenever we cross paths, which of late has been rather frequent

also, when I play a game
I never play defense
I only play offense

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 07, 2020, 09:13:52 AM
Facts you posted? If you "could" or ever actually posted a fact I would have no need to diss it. The problem is, you haven't posted one. Your google search only supported something you did not state. That some Chinese folks in the shipping business take off a bit early to celebrate the New Year. That information has absolutely NOTHING to do with what you stated as fact but alas, was nothing more than another Moobs lie. Your need to win a disagreement on the internet and your use of false information in an attempt to do so but BAM, you Mr. Moobs are busted again. But don't let the truth get in the way of your lie


'Busted' by a 'gentleman' who simply refused to engage in a reasoned discourse as to any flaw - other than some bizarre reason to shout 'LIAR' based on .... his 'feeliz'...?

Ri-ight ..

In the meantime..

You're right Billy, good work! That's a shockingly high mortality rate when you think about it, just over a quarter of all those that have fought the virus to the conclusion have died. I reckon the news services must have been told to avoid giving out the actual figures or at least were just misled themselves with the figures twisted with those still fighting the illness.

I know Italy has a high elderly population but I wonder if all of those 27 percent are elderly with underlying health problems? I somewhat can't help thinking that it surely can't be all elderly with underlying health problems. At around a quarter of people dying from it I can see why the Government are taking it so seriously here now.

Here we have only had 2 people die so far both elderly with underlying health problems. One I think wasn't recieving any medical treatment they just found out afterwards that he had died odd it. I think yesterday's total infected brought us to 167 cases, I can't find any figures for those that have survived it so far, with a two week battle and about roughly 30 saying they have been infected over previous day's each day I guess it can't be more than 30 ish if that, that have gone through it all. So maybe at least 10-20 percent there. Looking too early to tell on the figures as the recent rise is probably mostly only over this past week, in the next week or so if the figures pitch up to anywhere near a quarter of people dying I think that is when you will see people really panic in the UK and no doubt the US too.

So now we have Trench and BillyB as proponents of a risible 'mortality rate'..

These are the guys who suggested face masks are useful for the general public  :rolleyes:

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2020, 09:30:40 AM

So now we have Trench and BillyB as proponents of a risible 'mortality rate'..

These are the guys who suggested face masks are useful for the general public  :rolleyes:

LOL, you make me laugh Mobers.

You must have missed reading today's report from Iran & Italy:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51783242

I think that we can roughly guess the amount that are still fighting it and extrapolate, even at cautious estimates we are talking probably somewhere around 20 percent, from the figures we are getting back of deaths just in one day to me it is sounding a lot more!

We're probably 1-2 weeks behind Italy so in a week or two's time this will likely be the situation in the UK. Today in the UK cases passed 200 altogether, up at least 48 today, the most so far, so it is increasing.

I do indeed suggest that face masks for the general public are useful. If I was in a vulnerable category, other than being a man where it seems there is a higher mortality rate I would wear a full gas mask, might even consider going the whole Hazmat suit route. Anyway that cuts down the risk is useful but I won't be the one wearing a bra cup as I've already bought meself a nice rubber respirator mask that apparently cuts down the risk around 100 times than not wearing one, I have got a cheap pair of plastic Goggles also and will be careful not to touch my face too much once this thing goes viral here :)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 07, 2020, 09:38:56 AM
LOL, you make me laugh Mobers.

You must have missed reading today's report from Iran & Italy:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51783242

I think that we can roughly guess the amount that are still fighting it and extrapolate, even at cautious estimates we are talking probably somewhere around 20 percent, from the figures we are getting back of deaths just in one day to me it is sounding a lot more!

We're probably 1-2 weeks behind Italy so in a week or two's time this will likely be the situation in the UK. Today in the UK cases passed 200 altogether, up at least 48 today, the most so far, so it is increasing.

I do indeed suggest that face masks for the general public are useful. If I was in a vulnerable category, other than being a man where it seems there is a higher mortality rate I would wear a full gas mask, might even consider going the whole Hazmat suit route. Anyway that cuts down the risk is useful but I won't be the one wearing a bra cup as I've already bought meself a nice rubber respirator mask that apparently cuts down the risk around 100 times than not wearing one, I have got a cheap pair of plastic Goggles also and will be careful not to touch my face too much once this thing goes viral here :)

What can say, in the face of a STUPID response like this ?

1/ Where you so 'hot' at arithmetic at school?

2/  Trench, please tell us what you're going to do when the Carbon Dioxide levels in your respirator become too high ... Will you go to a 'clean room' to change ?  ...


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 07, 2020, 09:42:49 AM
You're right Billy, good work! That's a shockingly high mortality rate when you think about it, just over a quarter of all those that have fought the virus to the conclusion have died. I reckon the news services must have been told to avoid giving out the actual figures or at least were just misled themselves with the figures twisted with those still fighting the illness.


I'm not sure the media is told what to do but I think this time the governments and health organizations are manipulating the media. The way WHO presented data recently, the media automatically translated that to be 3.4% death rate when that is not true. Also governments and health organizations say there are many undetected cases out there so the death rate should be lower but they aren't telling us there are undetected death cases out there which deaths are incorrectly recorded as pneumonia or influenza which would make death rates go up. The best thing to do is go with the numbers we know.

Below are all 1st world nations with good health care systems, with a minimum of 150 infections reporting I trust. Numbers based off John Hopkins link below.

Country       Total Infections        Deaths        Total Recovered

South Korea         7041                       44                    135
Italy                    4636                      197                   532
Germany               686                         0                     17
France                   653                         9                     12
Japan                    420                          6                     46
Spain                     401                         5                     2
USA                       340                        14                    8
Switzerland            214                         1                      3
UK                         164                         2                     8

Total                    14,555                     278                  763

As you can see from this pool of 14,555 people, 1041 finished their fight and 278 died for a mortality rate of 26.7%. Imagine yourself as one of those 13K+ infected and life and death started to sink in. You won't be looking at the reported mortality rates. You will be looked at the death and recovery categories. For every three people who goes into the recovery category, one person goes into the death category. I don't know if those numbers will hold but those numbers are we are dealing with right now after throwing out the Chinese numbers which account for 80% of the weight when factoring mortality rates.

http://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 07, 2020, 09:51:29 AM


Country       Total Infections        Deaths        Total Recovered

South Korea         7041                       44                    135
Italy                    4636                      197                   532
Germany               686                         0                     17
France                   653                         9                     12
Japan                    420                          6                     46
Spain                     401                         5                     2
USA                       340                        14                    8
Switzerland            214                         1                      3
UK                         164                         2                     8

Total                    14,555                     278                  763

As you can see from this pool of 14,555 people, 1041 finished their fight and 278 died for a mortality rate of 26.7%. 

Would you like to try that again? The calculation is based on total infected, not retracted from a subset of the whole.

I still feel that if you, or anyone, feels you should exercise what makes you comfortable in handling any given situation, it should not be a cause for someone to criticize or demean you. Especially during times of many uncertainties surrounding a given situation. I would be resigned to believe there's something even more seriously wrong with that particular person than you.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 07, 2020, 10:10:20 AM

'Busted' by a 'gentleman' who simply refused to engage in a reasoned discourse as to any flaw - other than some bizarre reason to shout 'LIAR' based on .... his 'feeliz'...?

Ri-ight ..



So  let's get this right, you want me to provide refuting evidence to a completely baseless claim you made? You are some kind of special stupid. You made the claim moron. The onus is on you to provide the supporting evidence. Rather than your covert calls to the Chinese secret police or Boe's clients, can you google anything that supports the corona virus and it's global spread is because Wong Fu went home for the holidays?

 :ROFL:

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 07, 2020, 10:11:47 AM
Those with serious issues with manipulation of stats should indeed have sympathy ..

In the meantime,  Brits travelling to Moscow may be asked to self-isolate - or be forced to ...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-51781573

"Going to Moscow? You may need to self-isolate
If you're planning a trip to Russia - or more specifically, the country's capital - you should probably be aware of this, from our political correspondent Jonathan Blake:

The UK government is warning people travelling to Moscow that they may be asked to self-isolate for 14 days on arrival, due to the coronavirus outbreak.

Updated travel advice says there are reports in Russia, citing official sources, that the UK will be added to a list of countries which already includes China, South Korea, Italy, Iran, France, Germany and Spain - for which special measures apply.

The advice also states that passengers may be asked to sign a document agreeing to self-isolate. It says that in "a small number of cases" foreign visitors have been placed in enforced quarantine if they do not comply."


My little island of Cyprus has had demonstrations as some of the UN designated crossing points were closed ..

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 07, 2020, 10:14:14 AM
So  let's get this right, you want me to provide refuting evidence to a completely baseless claim you made? You are some kind of special stupid. You made the claim moron. The onus is on you to provide the supporting evidence. Rather than your covert calls to the Chinese secret police or Boe's clients, can you google anything that supports the corona virus and it's global spread is because Wong Fu went home for the holidays?

 :ROFL:


Let's get it EXACTLY right ..

1/ you hadn't a clue about Chinese workers going off early for New Year

2/ You haven't provided ANY valid riposte re the validity of my sources: CDC, NHS WHO ...



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2020, 10:15:28 AM
The CBC's man on the street and your several clients can speak for an entire Chinese province's New Year travel plans? :rolleyes:  Oh please excuse my speaking out of turn. I'll leave you to your valued sources.

Look at how many travelled by the time of the quarantine. Five million people had left Wuhan to travel for the Lunar Year before China imposed a quarantine on the city. That's almost half the city's population.  People in the West don't really understand how "big" a deal the Lunar Year holiday is. 

You're right Billy, good work! That's a shockingly high mortality rate when you think about it, just over a quarter of all those that have fought the virus to the conclusion have died.

It's only shocking in its inaccuracy.  The highest mortality rate cited was by the director general of the World Health Organization (3.4%), but that figure was calculated by dividing the number of deaths by the number of officially confirmed cases.  The problem is, many people exhibit mild symptoms, and may not seek medical treatment.  Here's more information on fatality rates -

http://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-03-07/why-the-coronavirus-fatality-rate-keeps-changing (http://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-03-07/why-the-coronavirus-fatality-rate-keeps-changing)


http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30185-9/fulltext#tbl1 (http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30185-9/fulltext#tbl1)


I suspect the true mortality rate will not be able to be determined until the virus has run its course. 

Google was used to find the above links.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 07, 2020, 10:39:51 AM
“to feel confident, people have to believe the president is telling the truth and has their interests in mind”

Trump on keeping cruise passengers offshore: “I don’t need to have my virus numbers double because of one ship that wasn’t our fault” http://cnn.com

Trump is ONLY concerned about HIS numbers
why the f%ck did you people vote for him?
you just dug your own graves by doing so....

meanwhile if you already haven't bought gold and silver bullion coins for trading then you are SOL!!!
I have 1 oz and below gold and silver bartering bullion and coins
and bricks of 500 22LR cartridges for bartering
enough to completely live off of for at last a year
prices on these items are escalating quickly




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 07, 2020, 10:57:15 AM

The highest mortality rate cited was by the director general of the World Health Organization (3.4%),

Director General never said 3.4% is the mortality rate.

but that figure was calculated by dividing the number of deaths by the number of officially confirmed cases. 


That figure was calculated by journalists based of the Director Generals speech but the DR never said that was mortality rate. But it's good people still calculate low numbers so there is no panic.

I suspect the true mortality rate will not be able to be determined until the virus has run its course. 


100% TRUE!!! That may take years but we don't need years to begin understanding what is going on. The virus has run it's course in thousands of people already so we can predict the future and currently the mortality rate is high in reliable trustworthy 1st world nations that have good health care systems.

Would you like to try that again? The calculation is based on total infected, not retracted from a subset of the whole.


Don't need to try that again. Problem is people are taking the total infected and lumping them in the recovery category to calculate mortality which brings the rate WAY down. Here's what I wrote to someone else on another forum who is as stubborn as Moby.

Mortality rate, or death rate, is a measure of the number of deaths in a particular population, scaled to the size of that population, per unit of time.

Do you understand unit of time? People have to finish their battle with the virus before time is up. Imagine going around doing mortality rates for 2020 RIGHT NOW and asking people if they lived or died in 2020. They will call you stupid because time is not up. 2020 is not finished. But you conclude your study anyway and claim 2020 mortality rates are low. Later some of the people you have claimed to survive the year 2020 will die tomorrow, next week, next month or Dec 31, 2020 and the smart guy will wait till the year(unit of time) is up before calculation mortality rates. His rate will be higher than yours. This virus rate will continue to go up because others make the same mistake as you. First it was claimed the virus is no deadlier than the flu with death rate a .1%. Then it was claimed the death rate is 2%. Now it's claimed the death rate is 3.4% It will continue to go up because people didn't know what they were doing before and they don't know what they are doing now. For this virus, you must wait till the battle with the virus is over to calculate mortality rates. So use the people that have finished their battle to help predict mortality rates based on the death or recovered categories.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2020, 11:03:01 AM
The WHO Director-General said:


Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died. 


That sounds like a measure of death to me.


http://www.sciencealert.com/covid-19-s-death-rate-is-higher-than-thought-but-it-should-drop (http://www.sciencealert.com/covid-19-s-death-rate-is-higher-than-thought-but-it-should-drop)


Google was used to retrieve the previously read link above.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 07, 2020, 11:06:37 AM
..Don't need to try that again. Problem is people are taking the total infected and lumping them in the recovery category to calculate mortality which brings the rate WAY down. Here's what I wrote to someone else on another forum who is as stubborn as Moby.

Mortality rate, or death rate, is a measure of the number of deaths in a particular population, scaled to the size of that population, per unit of time.

Do you understand unit of time? People have to finish their battle with the virus before time is up. Imagine going around doing mortality rates for 2020 RIGHT NOW and asking people if they lived or died in 2020. They will call you stupid because time is not up. 2020 is not finished. But you conclude your study anyway and claim 2020 mortality rates are low. Later some of the people you have claimed to survive the year 2020 will die tomorrow, next week, next month or Dec 31, 2020 and the smart guy will wait till the year(unit of time) is up before calculation mortality rates. His rate will be higher than yours. This virus rate will continue to go up because others make the same mistake as you. First it was claimed the virus is no deadlier than the flu with death rate a .1%. Then it was claimed the death rate is 2%. Now it's claimed the death rate is 3.4% It will continue to go up because people didn't know what they were doing before and they don't know what they are doing now. For this virus, you must wait till the battle with the virus is over to calculate mortality rates. So use the people that have finished their battle to help predict mortality rates based on the death or recovered categories.

:devil: Verbosity doesn't diminish reality.

Billy, if you don't know the actual *whole* number, either a population, or a fixed number of a whole (e.g. 100,000 or 10,000 or 1,000 etc), how can you extract or equate a representative given 'rate'? Then to make this even useless, you completely ignored a given sampled whole (infected) in your citation, extracted a subset (recovered vs died), then cited a death rate.

Anyway...no need to belabor this..
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 07, 2020, 11:25:41 AM
The WHO Director-General said:


Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died. 


That sounds like a measure of death to me


Sounds like a measure of death to most people too but he never said it was the mortality rate. It is a rate though.  Cases include people who’d aren’t finish with their battle with the virus and those who are finished. Died are cases consists of those  who are finished with the battle. Problem is people are taking cases of those who aren’t finished with the battle and designating them into the recovery category to calculate death rate which brings the rate way down. When those people are finished with their battle many will end up in the dead category instead. Death rate willl continue to go up. Media reports was wrong before. They are still wrong
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2020, 11:35:58 AM
It was a mortality rate, based not on the general population, but of those who contract the virus.


This post was composed without the aid of google.



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 07, 2020, 11:57:00 AM
instead of one variable, the transmission rate of the virus...
I see 100 sub-variables, and from within each sub-variable 100 new ones...
together this multi-dimensional array, forms an interconnected network
where the "weight" of each individual variable controls some amount of the final output
which is the rate of infection for the population...

if you look at the graph of the rate of infection for China in December
and then look at the current rate in the USA you will see where their curves correlate
and just based on that, guess where we’re gonna be in 3-4 months...
but now one variable is temperature...
plot the rate of growth in infection vrs monthly temperature in wuhan
now, look at the monthly temperature in your area
when your temperature hits the December Wuhan temps and below, then you are all gonna be toast...
but until then the virus will remain in the linear phase...it grew only 20% in the last 24 hours!
but as soon as those temps are reached
it’s gonna go exponential
and that’s when you find out how hollow and worn out our society is
when every single crack in our society, from health care to gun control to banking and investment regulation
starts growing to an infinite size and breaks the foundation of civilization wide open
and the whole thing comes crashing down into ruins

and this is probably all gonna start coming true in 2 to 3 years...

how many of the geezers reading this post, will be alive 5 years from now?
hey...
I hear something...
I think it's a bell ringing far away,,,,
are you wondering why it's ringing?
not me man!
definitely not me!

 

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 07, 2020, 12:12:06 PM
Sounds like a measure of death to most people too but he never said it was the mortality rate. It is a rate though.  Cases include people who’d aren’t finish with their battle with the virus and those who are finished. Died are cases consists of those  who are finished with the battle. Problem is people are taking cases of those who aren’t finished with the battle and designating them into the recovery category to calculate death rate which brings the rate way down. When those people are finished with their battle many will end up in the dead category instead. Death rate willl continue to go up. Media reports was wrong before. They are still wrong

That's really not a 'problem' per se. It's what is reality is so far.

Example: 100 people dove into the lake to try and swim across it. 'So far' 20 folks made it across, 10 drowned and died. The death rate for diving into this lake and trying to swim across is therefore (using your math) 33.33%. You don't really believe this is a true representative of a given whole, do you? There are 70 more folks trying to swim across. Wouldn't it be 'more' prudent to report a 10% death rate 'to date'?

Hell, you may well be right that by the time this is all over, 26.7% may actually be the right number. We don't know. This is why trying to report 'death rates at this stage is faulty for the simple reason it changes, and is at the present time, 'inconclusive'.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2020, 12:25:01 PM
It was a mortality rate, based not on the general population, but of those who contract the virus.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

It's a deceptive twisting of statistics to try and publicise a different picture than to what there actually is. People should be told the actually Mortality rate of those that have been through it not given PR bullsh*t to try and be clever and dupe them. I thought we had gotten past all of that goings on in the Tony Blair era but no here we are in 2020 with people in high places telling setting out to deceive people with bare faced lies so they can get off on feeling good that they have hoodwinked others. Is it really such a difficulty for some people to just be straight with others instead of being untrustfull toads where everyone is better of not trusting or listening to a word that comes out of their mouth.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 07, 2020, 12:50:23 PM
Trench,

The people ARE being told... it's just those who cannot understand fall over themselves to confirm their daftness
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 07, 2020, 12:57:49 PM
It was a mortality rate, based not on the general population, but of those who contract the virus.


Mortality rate can't be determined until time is up for those who are still infected. They may recover or die but until that happens, it's a mistake to include those currently infected into the recover or dead categories. I understand the twisting of numbers to give the impression that mortality rates are low so not to create panic. Since these virus threads started, I've been saying they're low and as more numbers are reported and those infected get thrown into the dead or recovered categories, you will see they aren't able to twist the numbers as much. Months ago they said death rate was .1%, then 2% and now 3.4%. It's going to keep going up.


Example: 100 people dove into the lake to try and swim across it. 'So far' 20 folks made it across, 10 drowned and died. The death rate for diving into this lake and trying to swim across is therefore (using your math) 33.33%. You don't really believe this is a true representative of a given whole, do you? There are 70 more folks trying to swim across. Wouldn't it be 'more' prudent to report a 10% death rate 'to date'?


Ideally, true mortality rate can't be calculated until ALL 100 swimmers FINISH their attempt to cross the lake. With 20 making it across and 10 drowned, that means 70 swimmers fate has yet to be determined. Although we should wait for all 100 swimmers to finish, we do have idea what the current going rate is and that is 20 swimmers survived the swim and 10 did not. It is wrong to say the current death rate is 10% because then you'd have to assume ALL 70 remaining swimmers will survive for that 10% to stand. Most likely when all swimmers are done, the mortality rate will be closer to 33.33% than 10%.

15 minutes ago my wife got a text her college is shut down and she'll have to do classes online until further update.

Italy updated their numbers. This morning the numbers were

4636  Infected      197   died    532 recovered  equals a 27% mortality rate

Todays numbers are

5883 Infected        233 died      589 recovered equals a 28.3% mortality rate

Italy's mortality rate has gone up with 36 new deaths and 57 recoveries. Italy has quarantined cities and closed schools. Parts of Italy are becoming a European Wuhan. Wish our two Italian members would report what they're experiencing.




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2020, 01:08:02 PM
What can say, in the face of a STUPID response like this ?

1/ Where you so 'hot' at arithmetic at school?

2/  Trench, please tell us what you're going to do when the Carbon Dioxide levels in your respirator become too high ... Will you go to a 'clean room' to change ?  ...

Mobe, my respirator mask has good filtered air inlets and a dedicated air outlet, so you don't need to worry yourself I will be fine :D

I will of course take it off when I am at home and in bed at night :)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2020, 01:09:28 PM
Trench,

The people ARE being told... it's just those who cannot understand fall over themselves to confirm their daftness

They are not being told directly they are being told bulls*t numbers that are just gibberish, they are being told untruths by the WHO.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 07, 2020, 02:09:52 PM
They are not being told directly they are being told bulls*t numbers that are just gibberish, they are being told untruths by the WHO.

Trench, this is one case where government and WHO twisting and manipulating how they calculate mortality rate to achieve low numbers is a good thing. China did it out of pride and to save their economy. Our government and WHO are doing it to save lives by not creating panic which causes deaths and to save our economies. It's okay if a few people know the truth and act accordingly without panic. The current mortality rate is horrible and if humanity doesn't stop this virus and ALL people get it once or multiple times in our lives, we'll have a serious population reduction and our lives and behavior will be altered for as long as this virus exists.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 07, 2020, 02:45:23 PM

It's official. My wife's college is shut down the rest of the quarter and she will not have to do any classes online since it isn't practical for what she's studying.

Italy is taking radical steps and is locking down Lombardy, a region of over 10,000,000 people. Army mobilized to enforce lockdown. Those people are on their own now but at least it's less likely to spread to other parts of Italy or around the world. Sacrifice a few for the good of many.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/italy-plans-large-scale-lockdown-in-countrys-north-to-fight-coronavirus/ar-BB10SVjj?ocid=spartanntp

In other news American women have found a new way achieve leverage on their husbands. Making false DV claims is out. The new thing is for wives to threaten their husbands they'll call 911 and report them as having COVID-19 so they get locked up for 30 days.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 07, 2020, 03:12:54 PM
billy boy,

pull out all the "stops" now, start getting ready, your area may be "shutdown" by the end of this month...
this is like an out of control fire that people are underestimating...
and then it burns everything down



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2020, 03:42:22 PM
What are the odds that someone will name their newborn 'Covid' this year, lol.

There's probably a council estate out there somewhere that will.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on March 07, 2020, 04:12:58 PM
Those with serious issues with manipulation of stats should indeed have sympathy ..

In the meantime,  Brits travelling to Moscow may be asked to self-isolate - or be forced to ...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-51781573

"Going to Moscow? You may need to self-isolate
If you're planning a trip to Russia - or more specifically, the country's capital - you should probably be aware of this, from our political correspondent Jonathan Blake:

The UK government is warning people travelling to Moscow that they may be asked to self-isolate for 14 days on arrival, due to the coronavirus outbreak.

Updated travel advice says there are reports in Russia, citing official sources, that the UK will be added to a list of countries which already includes China, South Korea, Italy, Iran, France, Germany and Spain - for which special measures apply.

The advice also states that passengers may be asked to sign a document agreeing to self-isolate. It says that in "a small number of cases" foreign visitors have been placed in enforced quarantine if they do not comply."


My little island of Cyprus has had demonstrations as some of the UN designated crossing points were closed ..

Old news already!!! May be asked to self isolate???
This from Moscow times yesterday....

"— The 14 day self-isolation regime for people returning to Moscow from some of the worst-affected countries was extended. People entering the capital from China, South Korea, Iran, Italy, France, Germany, Spain, Switzerland, U.K, Norway and the U.S are required to stay inside for two weeks"

Quarantine is NOT a choice.
I probably will end up cancelling my trip to Russia in May
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on March 07, 2020, 04:25:21 PM
Old news already!!! May be asked to self isolate???
This from Moscow times yesterday....

"— The 14 day self-isolation regime for people returning to Moscow from some of the worst-affected countries was extended. People entering the capital from China, South Korea, Iran, Italy, France, Germany, Spain, Switzerland, U.K, Norway and the U.S are required to stay inside for two weeks"

Quarantine is NOT a choice.
I probably will end up cancelling my trip to Russia in May

Sorry, forgot to add the link in Moscow Times.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/03/07/coronavirus-in-russia-the-latest-news-march-6-a69117

Another interesting link.
http://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 07, 2020, 04:52:53 PM
this is like an out of control fire that people are underestimating...


It's okay if people are underestimating as long as governments don't underestimate. People can continue to believe there's nothing to worry about, nothing to see here. Keep working.

your area may be "shutdown" by the end of this month...


In a matter of weeks Italy and South Korea went from a few infections and deaths to out of control. King County, WA has the symptoms for an explosion like they had but I'm ready for it. I've got cash. I'll approach a couple of soldiers, tell them I'm virus free, and try to bribe my way out so I can come live with you. But when one soldier yells out "It's freezing weather and a drop of sweat just fell from his face! He's got the zombie virus!!!" the other soldier with an itchy trigger finger blows my head off and I fall to the ground. As I raise my hand to signal for help, the soldier empties his clip of remaining 29 rounds into my raised hand and body. As I raise my other hand to signal for help, the rest of the platoon empties their clips into my body. My legs get up and run back home. I get on the computer and report to you guys they are not messing around with the quarantining of people, even the virus free kind like me.

In other news Hotel COVID-19 collapses.  43 out of 70 people have been rescued and local officials report no deaths unless Beijing gives them permission to do so.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/hotel-collapse-traps-70-eastern-china-154017056.html

My local government just bought a really cheap hotel to house the infected. It's the kind of dumpy hotel the local hookers take clients to.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2020, 05:23:23 PM
I probably will end up cancelling my trip to Russia in May

One issue with going abroad may become that you go abroad but then can't get back, either the airline goes bust and/or they stop all flights back, etc.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 07, 2020, 05:26:17 PM

Trump is ONLY concerned about HIS numbers
why the f%ck did you people vote for him?
you just dug your own graves by doing so....


While the world is supporting its health professionals to treat the infected and to prepare for many more, you and other Democrats are attempting to twist the story to make it political. 

The only US government fault I see is the limited  testing done so far (now being corrected).  Trump made some good decisions such as banning a month ago the entry of non-US citizens who had traveled in China.  The last thing we need is a President full of fear. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 07, 2020, 05:30:47 PM


this is like an out of control fire that people are underestimating...
and then it burns everything down

My Gawd!  The hysteria.

I am good friends with two MDs who are heads of ER operations for two hospitals, one a large government healthcare center.   One remarked that the hysterics over COVID-19 are greater today than in his early years when addressing the AIDS epidemic.   Every AIDS case was deemed fatal.  The role of HIV was not known.  Transmission was not understood.  And over 700,000 persons died in the US from AIDS.  And today people like krimster are freaking out.


What are my two ER friends doing?  They are totally emerged into preparing for the diagnosis and treatment of possibly much larger number of future patients.  Are they exhibiting concern?  No.  The number of deaths from COVID-19 will grow, yet in the end more of us will have died from the flu.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 07, 2020, 05:45:08 PM
i'm not selling fear...
i'm selling reality...
if you're not in the market for reality
then enjoy your denial...
it goes well with a little butter

a month from now, you'll see
if you have fear or no fear like me, it doesn't matter, the virus doesn't care...
I'm NOT AFRAID, hell I might even like the apocalypse before it kills me

Trump has done so much wrong about this, I'd spend an hour describing it...
he did too little, too late, and too wrong....

hillary's emails won't matter
Biden's son's emails won't matter either
meuller report won't matter
impeachment won't matter

for the simple reason that the world doesn't actually revolve around your great leader
but around a completely different axis
and it's very rapidly spinning out of control

all fingers for what the CDC has called "it's own catastrophe" point to some individual in particular
the one we call "dear Leader"....
who did to the CDC what he's done to every other part of the federal government....
made it less effective....
now YOU pay the price

you made your bed when you voted for him
now dear Trump voters, please go and go lay down in it and fall to sleep...
sleep.....yes...a deep sleep...
and perchance to dream....
and watch it slowly fade away....
for all eternity
s'long y'all!!
buh by!!!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 08, 2020, 04:41:49 AM
  Trump made some good decisions such as banning a month ago the entry of non-US citizens who had traveled in China.  The last thing we need is a President full of fear.

Very 'wise'...The virus 'realises' it dare not infect an American?..
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 08, 2020, 05:27:26 AM
Looking on Google last night and came across an article, it was based on Chinese stats so can't be entirely trusted but they do at least admit that some have died out there that were not elderly. The risk did tend to rise withage and of course most deaths were among the elderly but even some people int the 0-30 age group had died, though of course very few as well as people in their 40s, 50, & 60s, etc. Tending to go up proportionately to age. Again as the figures are from China we can't really look to then for anything more than then telling us it is possible. China would be too unreliable to rely on them telling us how much the younger people may get it and die of it.

Italy is likey to be the first source of this although they have (had) a large elderly population so the figures might be about skewed compared to other countries. Germany is likely to be the next country where such data may be obtained from.

In Italy, 50 people died in one day yesterday! Which is pretty shocking in just one day showing how bad it can be and they are unlikely at the top of it as yet.

In today's reporting they tell us Italy's health service is on the brink of collapse being unable to cope with all the cases and lacking facilities. Lombardy region is now under complete lockdown, nobody allowed out or in, so it's getting pretty dire out there already for those trapped inside.

Here I'm guessing London is likely to be the first region that will go into lockdown as it has had the most cases so far and it's density of population mean it is likely the greatest risk, other large cities will likely  follow.

I am lucky as although I am not living in a cave in the mountains, I do live in areas where there is a smaller population outside of city areas. Whether they will get to lockdown status I don't know. I'm guessing once it has eventually spread to most of the population there will be little point in lockdowns and only the country as a whole will be until of course it has spread fully enough worldwide.

That's likely a way off yet so I'm glad I'm living in areas that will likely avoid the lockdowns in the main. Maybe by house might go up a lot in value as a result and property prices in London crash a lot :D

At times like this the best housing is probably right out in the sticks with a lot of space away from anyone, like remote cottages or on farms, etc.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 08, 2020, 06:36:17 AM
Trench you live in up a ( formerly) semi-industrialised Welsh valley .. the first hot spots closed off in N.Italy were smaller communities ..  Still with all that toilet roll and hand sanitiser at home - and no visitors ...you'll be 'busier' on here..

Most people would realise that the democracy with the highest numbers  ( hence data even you and Billy can 'trust' ) is S.Korea

If there's an 'apocalypse' and less people still living ... WHY do you thing house prices would rise ... ?


As ever, no sign of  joined-up cognitive  activity ...

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 08, 2020, 07:11:32 AM
everything but gold will crash through the floor by the end of the year....
whattabout  shorting the airlines?
my broker feels uneasy about doing stuff like this, he's what they call "ethical"
which is why I make the decisions sometimes...
I don't have this handicap, or even understand what it means...
massive market shorts it is!
this'll be great, assuming the counter party will still be there to pay off my bet at the end of the year


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 08, 2020, 08:38:03 AM
Trench you live in up a ( formerly) semi-industrialised Welsh valley .. the first hot spots closed off in N.Italy were smaller communities ..  Still with all that toilet roll and hand sanitiser at home - and no visitors ...you'll be 'busier' on here..

Most people would realise that the democracy with the highest numbers  ( hence data even you and Billy can 'trust' ) is S.Korea

If there's an 'apocalypse' and less people still living ... WHY do you thing house prices would rise ... ?


As ever, no sign of  joined-up cognitive  activity ...

All depends on how far it reaches before a vaccine is freely available, early estimates was a year to the vaccine though they seem to be hurting it as much as they can. Milan is the epicenter of Italy's Coronavirus, the rest got quarentined as it is in the same region.

Mobe you were wrong on Brexit and you will be wrong on this one ;)

Prepare now Mobers so you aren't caught out. The smart money is on the smart people, unfortunately that doesn't include you.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 08, 2020, 08:56:34 AM
if the virus doesn’t start slowing down in the USA
then by the end of this month, we will be where Italy is now....

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 08, 2020, 08:59:06 AM


Mobe you were wrong on Brexit and you will be wrong on this one ;)

1/ I WASN'T wrong on 'Brexit' - it's THE most stupid thing this country has done ... Project fear is becoming fact ...

2/ My missus' has managed to live in Thailand amongst Chinese tourists and I've flown to Georgia on a code share flight with loads of folk from n.Italy ... 



Prepare now Mobers so you aren't caught out. The smart money is on the smart people, unfortunately that doesn't include you.

'Smart people' don't post tosh about relationships and misogynistic viewpoints on women when they're never in one for long enough enough to post with a clue .. :popcorn:

I've noticed that ordering on-line for groceries ... the wait time was 1 day - it's nearly three, now,  in my area .... I guess folks are too frightened to go to the shops...    :rolleyes:






Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on March 08, 2020, 09:02:18 AM
Old news already!!! May be asked to self isolate???
This from Moscow times yesterday....

"— The 14 day self-isolation regime for people returning to Moscow from some of the worst-affected countries was extended. People entering the capital from China, South Korea, Iran, Italy, France, Germany, Spain, Switzerland, U.K, Norway and the U.S are required to stay inside for two weeks"

Quarantine is NOT a choice.
I probably will end up cancelling my trip to Russia in May


I just flew home from Bali via Incheon (SK). Upon landing in Atlanta, I was expecting the CDC to do health screenings and suggest self isolation. Nope, CDC not in sight, and the customs people couldn't wait to wave us through quickly. And there were some Koreans on my flight coughing pretty hard, but they didn't have a temp, as our temps were taken before boarding.

I don't think anyone can really predict where this is going. Will it die out as the weather warms up like other flu epidemics? or will it be like the Spanish Flu that didn't take off till August-October when it mutated and started killing off people in their 20s-50s

I think the notable event of the week was Russia unable to make an agreement with the Sauds, and Saudi Arabia is going to flood the market with cheap oil
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 08, 2020, 09:24:09 AM
"Incheon"????

Fred: I knew a guy wounded in the Incheon landing
Bob: Did he have scar?
Fred: No, he didn't smoke

I freakin love Incheon jokes!!!

but from what you're saying, we probably are still getting a lot of foreign travelers from infected zones
bringing the virus into the USA
but...
we don't have a single testing kit to find out
and it would just cost too much to check or quarantine people...
but never mind...
hey have you seen Hunter Biden's emails yet?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 08, 2020, 10:44:59 AM
Below are all 1st world nations with good health care systems, with a minimum of 150 infections reporting I trust. Numbers based off John Hopkins link below.

Country       Total Infections        Deaths        Total Recovered

South Korea         7041                       44                    135
Italy                    4636                      197                   532
Germany               686                         0                     17
France                   653                         9                     12
Japan                    420                          6                     46
Spain                     401                         5                     2
USA                       340                        14                    8
Switzerland            214                         1                      3
UK                         164                         2                     8

Total                    14,555                     278                  763

As you can see from this pool of 14,555 people, 1041 finished their fight and 278 died for a mortality rate of 26.7%. Imagine yourself as one of those 13K+ infected and life and death started to sink in. You won't be looking at the reported mortality rates. You will be looked at the death and recovery categories. For every three people who goes into the recovery category, one person goes into the death category. I don't know if those numbers will hold but those numbers are we are dealing with right now after throwing out the Chinese numbers which account for 80% of the weight when factoring mortality rates.

http://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

I did this exercise yesterday and I'll do it today to see what difference a day makes. I won't do it everyday but anybody can go to the John Hopkins to see the daily changes. A couple of things I notice is Germany doesn't like to report the death and recovery rates. Maybe they're slow and will report later. Also, deaths in South Korea went up and recoveries went down. They may have decided previous recoveries were recoveries from another illness, not the coronavirus. Here are the new tallies for 1st world nations with over 150 confirmed infections that I think are trustworthy, have high quality health care systems.


Country       Total Infections        Deaths        Total Recovered

South Korea         7314                       50                    118
Italy                    5883                      233                    589
Germany              1018                         0                     18
France                   949                         11                    12
Japan                    502                          6                     76
Spain                     613                         17                    30
USA                       466                        19                     8
Switzerland            332                         2                      3
UK                         273                         2                      18
Netherlands            265                         3                      0
Sweden                  203                         0                      0
Belgium                  169                         0                      1
Norway                   157                         0                      0

Total                    18,144                     343                  903

Yesterdays numbers were 14,555 people infected, 1041 finished their fight and 278 died for a mortality rate of 26.7%.

Todays numbers are 18,144 infected, 1246 finished their fight with the virus and 343 died for a mortality rate of 27.5%. The mortality rate went up because there was 55 dead to 140 recoveries reported for the day. Poor odds for the tens of thousands who are currently infected and will someday be placed in one of those two categories.

The good news is official reports will keep numbers low so we don't panic. They will use Chinese reports which account for 80% of the weight into the equation which brings mortality rate down. They will factor in all those infected(still swimming for their life) into the recovery category to bring mortality rates down but we know the truth is many of those infected who are not finished with the battle with the virus will be thrown into the dead category eventually. As more numbers come in, they won't be able to manipulate the death rate easily, especially if someday the pool of infected becomes smaller and the dead and recovery pool becomes bigger. Evidence of that is the early reports of a .1% mortality rate became 2% and now 3.4% is the lastest being claimed. As more reports come in, it'll be harder for them to manipulate and mortality rates will go up but you'll never get the truth. If you want the truth, stick to the numbers reliable nations are reporting. Figure nations with poor health care systems having higher rates of death which we are not seeing right now and will probably never see.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 08, 2020, 10:54:52 AM
William

the only numbers that matter for you are the USA infections
and your state infections
keep track of those two daily...

the most important number from these two locations, is the rate of increase
also check long term weather reports
the top of the virus's favorite temp is in the 50s F,
you're gonna have those temps there for the next few months
so it's gonna expand, between now and then
you HOPE it will slow down when the weather is warmer

if it doesn't then the USA will be where Italy is now in about 4 to 6 weeks
and things are gonna start to get serious
and there will be zoned quarantined areas
and the first level of public closures like schools, universities, etc

but careful, dear leader does NOT want you to panic
and up voting for Joe Biden, just because Biden set up the biggest government backed public health response to a virus EVER, still much bigger than Trump's
back in 2014 when there were less than a handful of ebola cases in the USA, and he setup a special task force in the executive branch for dealing with this
and Biden left this organization in place for Trump, who immediately shut it down
and did everything wrong at every turn

oh, and what about Hillary's emails now, you poor infected MFers
this is your cool-aid
don't worry...
this one drinks you...







Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 08, 2020, 11:09:29 AM
1/ I WASN'T wrong on 'Brexit' - it's THE most stupid thing this country has done ... Project fear is becoming fact ...

2/ My missus' has managed to live in Thailand amongst Chinese tourists and I've flown to Georgia on a code share flight with loads of folk from n.Italy ... 


'Smart people' don't post tosh about relationships and misogynistic viewpoints on women when they're never in one for long enough enough to post with a clue .. :popcorn:

I've noticed that ordering on-line for groceries ... the wait time was 1 day - it's nearly three, now,  in my area .... I guess folks are too frightened to go to the shops...    :rolleyes:

Rather you & SC than me to be jetting of to those parts, the risk you are both taking is pretty high.

Though I do think it is kind of funny when I say that you might get stuck out there and the next thing we no you are no longer in Cyprus but in the UK, lol. Still some affection for your old British passport in times of crisis hey Mobe :D


I also said that this virus may change the way we shop and it looks like some of the worried well have started already.

Tesco has just announced it will ration certain items to five per customer:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51790375

A bit silly as could just go to another store afterwards.

Though could end up with rationing being brought in for the whole country by the government, hooray! No fat girls :cheesy:

They will be in a world of pain if that happens!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 08, 2020, 11:58:09 AM
Italy has now reported a huge jump in numbers. They have 366 deaths to 622 recoveries. South Korea has 50 deaths to 118 recoveries. Those two trustworthy nations with large sample pools combine for 416 deaths to 740 recoveries which equal 36% mortality rate. For every 2 recoveries recorded, another person is recorded dead. I don't like the reports from those nations but it is what it is.

http://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Nations, including allies, are getting angry at each other. Finger pointing is starting to happen. If any of you are thinking of coming to my house to steal my Top Ramen noodles and canned chili, I've got guns.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/governments-point-fingers-over-coronavirus-as-death-toll-mounts/ar-BB10QVhB?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 08, 2020, 12:12:12 PM
a month from there will no longer be people in denial in the USA, but now there are...

imagine what will happen to the hospital ERs this winter...
now imagine you break your arm or have a heart attack or a car accident during this period...

in the USA, watch store shelves start to empty this week...


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 08, 2020, 12:21:54 PM
Wow Billy, that means a Mortality rate of about a third in Italy and around a half in South Korea. That looks to me like it's hitting far more people than originally thought.

Still of course we are talking hundreds in a population of millions but the more time this goes on the more people it will effect.

I'm guessing here is the UK we probably aren't more than a month behind Italy, similar in the US I'm guessing, yet more land and population so depending on where someone lives out there the risk may vary.

Up to the highest daily cases in the UK so far today. It's not looking good as cases are going up daily:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-coronavirus-live-covid19-cases-death-toll-a4381406.html%3famp
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 08, 2020, 12:46:20 PM
As of today, there are 7,313 cases of coronavirus reported in Korea (7.133 active), and 50 deaths.  So not even close to half.

In Italy, there are 7,375 reported cases (6,387 active), and 366 deaths.

I was speaking to an infectious disease expert yesterday at a function.  He told me all hospital physicians have been fitted with special masks.  Their masks are airtight, and part of the testing of the masks is to place a liquid on them.  The liquid, even its scent, should not penetrate the mask.  He told me the masks sold to the general public are useless, and people shouldn't waste their money buying them.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 08, 2020, 01:27:10 PM
sheeeet...
my Russian partner just bought an 18 wheeler truckload
of OTC home respiratory care products, Alleve, Nyquil, etc...
even asthma medications....
they’ll be on the way to our warehouse in a few days

he got em in Russia at a bargain price...
won’t even be able to buy them AT ANY price after next week in the USA...
or in Russia later this year...

we’ll wait until November to start sellin online with “only” a 1000% markup
ka ching baby!!
make it rain kapusta down here!

m'am for the low price of only $100 I can sell you some hope for your sick little girl...
but ya gotta act fast, before we completely run out of hope as well as medicine...
ok, m'am?
y'know what?
for $100 more, I'll throw in a digital thermometer. and 20 extra paracetamol tablets..
whadda ya say m'am...
great!



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 08, 2020, 01:40:59 PM
imagine what will happen to the hospital ERs this winter...
now imagine you break your arm or have a heart attack or a car accident during this period...


Seattle's VA hospital called with a recorded message with info on where their coronavirus designated area will be located. I'm sure all hospitals in America are preparing and will have designated areas to test for the virus and quarantine people. Of course those with physical injuries will still be afraid to visit a hospital.

I understand you want to blame things on Trump but Trump is doing his job to not create panic with the truth. The media who is criticizing Trump for lying are also lying unknowingly putting out low numbers themselves. Media's numbers are higher than Trump's estimates but way lower than the truth. They don't truly understand how bad this virus is.

As of today, there are 7,313 cases of coronavirus reported in Korea (7.133 active), and 50 deaths.  So not even close to half.

In Italy, there are 7,375 reported cases (6,387 active), and 366 deaths.


Those are not mortality rates. The infected will someday be moved to the death or recovered categories. The death to recovered categories ratio are the categories to calculate mortality rate. Not everybody who is infected is done with their battle to tally final mortality rate but we have enough people who are finished with the battle to create a big enough sample size to see where this is going and currently in Italy and South Korea, 1 out of every 3 people who finished with a bout with virus is dead.

Even if a person's immunity system beats the virus, can they claim victory? Even if a person beats the virus, they can get it again and again and again because there is no cure. CDC says the average adult gets two to three colds a year. It doesn't feel like we get that much because the symptoms may not be noticeable but next time we get the cold it can be severe. COVID-19 is a cold virus on steroids but much more dangerous than the flu. A person may not experience any symptoms and beat it the first time they get it but next time they get it could be worse and kill them.

http://www.cdc.gov/features/rhinoviruses/index.html

If CDC estimates of how many colds we get per year are true, then people our age have experienced over 100 colds in our lifetimes and obviously beat them all since we are on this forum. If we get COVID-19 100 times in our life, we'd be dead before we get to 100. If COVID even has a 10% mortality rate and every person on earth gets it once, the first wave of the virus will kill 780 million people. The rest will survive and when the antibodies in those survivors disappear in a few months, they can acquire COVID-19 again, the same way we can acquire another cold again. Humanity can live with wave after wave of colds and flus since colds are harmless and there are vaccines for flus. We will be devastated if we have to live with wave after wave of COVID-19 unless a cure is found or it's eradicated from the human body. Governments are giving people hope they are racing to find a cure. They haven't found a cure for the common cold after 100 years of trying so I'm not optimistic. Containment through quarantine is our only hope to slow it down and hopefully stop the spread. If it gets out of our control, humanity will have to live with it forever.

Although this virus has been around a few months, around 10% of the world's population has experience a full or partial lockdown. Easily over a billion people's lives have been affected by this virus. Maybe school was cancelled, a concert was cancel, loss of work due to company shutting down and less orders for the company, canceled trips, self imposed quarantine or mandatory government quarantine are what many already experienced. THESE RECENT EVENTS BY GOVERNMENTS IN A SHORT TIME SHOULD TELL US SOMETHING ABOUT THE VIRUS. I don't think most people understand how dangerous this virus is and the magnitude of the situation but it's a good thing Trump, health organizations, and other governments continue to lie and downplay what is happening.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 08, 2020, 01:47:12 PM

Well duh.


I was referring to this -

that means a Mortality rate of about a third in Italy and around a half in South Korea.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 08, 2020, 01:57:37 PM
I predict that in a couple of years, there will be “plague houses”
houses where one or more people were found dead inside from covid-19 or covid-21
that are un-lived in, and on the market for a REALLY low price...

savvy buyers, can snap these up, and call in a forensic cleaning crew
and they’ll be the ones who will “clean-up” when they sell ‘em later for double!!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 08, 2020, 02:15:35 PM
Well duh.


I was referring to this -


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Well yes Boe it is. How does looking at figures of those with the virus that haven't yet either recovered or died help? The jury is still out on them surely ;)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 08, 2020, 02:18:58 PM
I predict that in a couple of years, there will be “plague houses”
houses where one or more people were found dead inside from covid-19 or covid-21
that are un-lived in, and on the market for a REALLY low price...

savvy buyers, can snap these up, and call in a forensic cleaning crew
and they’ll be the ones who will “clean-up” when they sell ‘em later for double!!

...and just think of what this is doing for the Environment Krim, hardly any pollution from plane travel or factories, Greta Thunberg will be thrilled :D
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 08, 2020, 02:30:14 PM
Keeping the economy going may be key for government & business, but for the individual keeping the money rolling in might be paramount also:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/07/world/asia/china-coronavirus-cost.amp.html

Not many can go long without money, some such as pensioners get it through their pension so may be able to isolate for long periods. Most workers will likely need to keep on working as they can be hand to mouth from month to month. Benefit claimants only need to see the Jobcentre once or twice a week, or maybe it can be done online. They will be able to isolate a lot as well, theoretically but many probably will lack the willpower to keep it up execept those Xboxers among them.

The workers most at risk at the moment are probably those that work in a Supermarket. I feel sorry for them as they are in contact with large numbers of the general public without any protection as yet. It's why if it's going to be a long term thing then I can see it changing to a more warehouse to conveyor belt to customer waiting setup.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 08, 2020, 03:08:18 PM
Well yes Boe it is. How does looking at figures of those with the virus that haven't yet either recovered or died help? The jury is still out on them surely ;)

Which 'jury' ?  The SillyBillyB 'school of stats'?!

I SERIOUSLY hope you never serve on any Jury ... 


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on March 08, 2020, 03:23:27 PM
Keeping the economy going may be key for government & business, but for the individual keeping the money rolling in might be paramount also:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/07/world/asia/china-coronavirus-cost.amp.html

Not many can go long without money, some such as pensioners get it through their pension so may be able to isolate for long periods. Most workers will likely need to keep on working as they can be hand to mouth from month to month. Benefit claimants only need to see the Jobcentre once or twice a week, or maybe it can be done online. They will be able to isolate a lot as well, theoretically but many probably will lack the willpower to keep it up execept those Xboxers among them.

The workers most at risk at the moment are probably those that work in a Supermarket. I feel sorry for them as they are in contact with large numbers of the general public without any protection as yet. It's why if it's going to be a long term thing then I can see it changing to a more warehouse to conveyor belt to customer waiting setup.

Trench, your correct in highlighting these risks to workers (and customrs).  Having to deal with the general public is an increased risk and your example of risks going to the grocery store was spot on.  Minimizing the number of trips to the grocery store will reduce the risks to public.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 08, 2020, 03:41:16 PM
Trench, your correct in highlighting these risks to workers (and customrs).  Having to deal with the general public is an increased risk and your example of risks going to the grocery store was spot on.  Minimizing the number of trips to the grocery store will reduce the risks to public.

Thanks Cal, appreciate it :)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 08, 2020, 06:11:06 PM
http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

we're now at 538 cases in the USA with a daily increase of 103
the daily increase is holding steady at about 20% new cases per day
when this number starts increasing we go exponential
we're where Italy was 4 weeks ago....

I would say the plan has worked far better than anyone in Moscva ever dreamed it would...
if you want to place a bet on how smart Americans are...
place the bet on the side that says they're the biggest bunch of dumb phuques ever...
no one ever lost that bet!
Putin sure as hell didn't
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 08, 2020, 07:30:23 PM
For those WITH any observational skills...

Even those in Wuhan can go out to the shops to buy food....

Such movements are restricted, but there is still food on the shelves..

In Italy, as of yesterday, the shelves of supermarkets in Rome were full and most  folks aren't wearing masks ...


Not sure why supermarkets are any more risky than collecting repeat meds at the docs or visiting an airport / railway stn., etc.


The Trenches of this world haven't heard of home delivery ))))




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 08, 2020, 07:37:13 PM
my wife owns two skin care and laser hair removal salons in our area....
she shows up at each twice per week
we were planning on closing them in August due to the virus....
but now I'm going to do it in April...
unfortunately we will have to lay off employees next month
she's had this business since 2009...

the ripples will spread

not sure how much longer my daughters will be able to attend college, before they're all closed, maybe 1 more semester at most...

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 08, 2020, 07:49:48 PM
http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


I like the website. Italy has updated new totals since I reported their numbers this morning. They've added 33 new deaths and 33 new recoveries. Mortality rate went up again. I consider Italy the go to country for honest reporting and they report often. Some countries don't report everyday but Italy reports multiple times a day.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 08, 2020, 09:05:26 PM
Биопрепарат

a Schwarzgerät with Biopreparat

this happened twice before

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_smallpox_incident

and then later

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sverdlovsk_anthrax_leak

and of course, the third time was last year in China

please spread this info on facebook and twitter so I get more points
'spossiba
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 08, 2020, 09:24:01 PM

The Trenches of this world haven't heard of home delivery ))))

Your remark reminds us that the most vulnerable group are the low-income, and within the low-income class the elderly and those with medical conditions such as asthma, diabetes, heart disease, etc.   They can not afford home delivery.  They tend to live in more populated areas. 

If a shutdown occurs, how do they get their food?  Their medicine?  There were reports that the "eye of the storm" nursing home in Kirkland, Washington was understaffed. 




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 08, 2020, 09:34:07 PM
Your remark reminds us that the most vulnerable group are the low-income, and within the low-income class the elderly and those with medical conditions such as asthma, diabetes, heart disease, etc.   They can not afford home delivery.  They tend to live in more populated areas. 

If a shutdown occurs, how do they get their food?  Their medicine?  There were reports that the "eye of the storm" nursing home in Kirkland, Washington was understaffed.

Gator...

I have no idea how much home delivery of groceries costs in the US, but it is less than half a gallon of petrol ( 'gas')

Over here - the good ol' NHS has deals to get meds delivered to those entitled to FREE prescriptions ( over 60's / those on low incomes / under 16's ) for FREE

http://www.well.co.uk/landing  (http://www.well.co.uk/landing)

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 08, 2020, 09:45:25 PM
Rather you & SC than me to be jetting of to those parts, the risk you are both taking is pretty high.

Unlike, you - we are living our lives and taking the govt recommended precautions ...NOT stocking up and ensuring foolish / selfish shoppers won't bring about temporary shortages.


Though I do think it is kind of funny when I say that you might get stuck out there and the next thing we no you are no longer in Cyprus but in the UK, lol. Still some affection for your old British passport in times of crisis hey Mobe :D

I have not been out in CY for some time ..  I seem to remember even posting this - as I have CY residency and the UKBA pointed out my being in the UK more often - and *I* pointed out to them that I care for my Mum ?!   I use my Irish passport to travel in and out of the UK ..  but the UKBA know I have a UK one !

I also said that this virus may change the way we shop and it looks like some of the worried well have started already.

Tesco has just announced it will ration certain items to five per customer:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51790375

A bit silly as could just go to another store afterwards.

The Spivs and selfish shoppers might ..


Though could end up with rationing being brought in for the whole country by the government, hooray! No fat girls :cheesy:

They will be in a world of pain if that happens!

You DO realise that even in China, food is in the supermarkets... ?  It's only rather sad / greedy people that cause empty shelves ..

Have you read that having this virus gives one the runs ?  WHY are folks stocking up on toilet rolls ?

I kid you not ..the shelves are low on pasta ..Muppets think only Italy makes Pasta ?


Trench, did you note that oil prices are crashing ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51796748 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51796748)

'How can this be'?  ..You for-telling of price rises in houses, etc.,



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 08, 2020, 09:51:48 PM

If a shutdown occurs, how do they get their food?  Their medicine?  There were reports that the "eye of the storm" nursing home in Kirkland, Washington was understaffed.
short employees to take care of the older folks...reminds me of all those small-minded people all worked up over brown skinned immigrants and trying to restrict access and increase limitations so young people couldn't immigrate easily or without long long delay.

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 08, 2020, 09:53:46 PM
Before you alarmists lose control of your wits, consider the Singapore case.  Singapore is a city nation of five million people. 

Singapore was one of the worst hit countries when the virus first started spreading outside China.  However,  it had long been preparing for epidemics, after its history with SARS. 

Today the number of total cases is small, only 150, with 90 recoveries.  60 cases are still active, of which 9 are critical.  Number of deaths is ZERO, yet official say deaths are inevitable. 

Was the small number of infections due to the warm climate, as Krimster might claim?  Maybe the climate helped, yet Singapore's response according to this article explains "Tough laws and semi-invasive methods coupled with cajoling and cheerleading are Singapore’s way of handling epidemics."  The article covers the detailed vigilance their epidemiologists undertook to contain the outbreak. 

http://thediplomat.com/2020/03/how-singapore-connected-the-dots-on-coronavirus/

The state and local health officials in the US are manning the frontline against this disease.  They have the capability to do the same.  The question is whether Americans will cooperate or will they panic.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 08, 2020, 09:54:17 PM
I predict that in a couple of years, there will be “plague houses”
houses where one or more people were found dead inside from covid-19 or covid-21
that are un-lived in, and on the market for a REALLY low price...

savvy buyers, can snap these up, and call in a forensic cleaning crew
and they’ll be the ones who will “clean-up” when they sell ‘em later for double!!
but corpses can't buy houses.

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 08, 2020, 10:12:17 PM
the most vulnerable group are the low-income, and within the low-income class the elderly and those with medical conditions such as asthma, diabetes, heart disease, etc.   They can not afford home delivery.  They tend to live in more populated areas. 

If a shutdown occurs, how do they get their food?  Their medicine? 


Out of over 3000 counties in America, I live in the hardest hit county. I've paid close attention to how quarantines are done elsewhere because I think it may happen in King County. First the army is going to surround us. Those inside quarantine will live life with restricted travel and work. Some will continue to work but many will stay indoors during an epidemic. The federal government and your tax dollars will have to support us by delivering us food and items for us to survive and combat the virus. Quarantine will be lifted only after the virus is gone but by then a lot of us will be dead but at least we're not spreading the virus to the majority living outside the quarantined area. But if we quarantine too many people and lose production like Italy is doing for an extended period of time, our economy will take a huge hit. If too many nations go into a deep depression and every nation is on it's own, some nations may see their neighbors and their neighbors allies being weak with no will to fight. In a time of weakness, things and people get exploited. Wars can break out.

Since I do earthwork and utilities work, with population reduction construction will slow down. I have a plan. I may get into the grave digging business and rename my business Undertaker Excavation.

There were reports that the "eye of the storm" nursing home in Kirkland, Washington was understaffed. 


Almost everybody you talk to that experiences an old folks home will say it's understaffed. My wife worked at one before. She complained about that too but I told her places like that have a high turnover rate for employees. Who wants to work for little money to give showers and change the diapers on adults?

If regions go into quarantine, I'm afraid a lot of people will have selfish, me first attitudes. Old folks homes will suffer. Some workers will surely quit during a time of quarantine, especially after the announcement today that 70 workers at the old folks home are sick.

http://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/07/us/coronavirus-nursing-home.html

Before you alarmists lose control of your wits, consider the Singapore case.  Singapore is a city nation of five million people. 

Singapore was one of the worst hit countries when the virus first started spreading outside China.  However,  it had long been preparing for epidemics, after its history with SARS. 

Today the number of total cases is small, only 150, with 90 recoveries.  60 cases are still active, of which 9 are critical.  Number of deaths is ZERO, yet official say deaths are inevitable. 
 

I have a hard time believing they have ZERO deaths. I hope they're not pulling a China on us. I doubt Singaporeans have super immunity systems compared South Koreans and Italians.

I have no idea how much home delivery of groceries costs in the US, but it is less than half a gallon of petrol ( 'gas')


From what I seen on Amazon, it's about the same price as in the store. If a whole region goes into quarantine, the biggest problem would be to find enough brave people to deliver to potential infected people everyday.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 08, 2020, 10:26:08 PM
Out of over 3000 counties in America, I live in the hardest hit county. I've paid close attention to how quarantines are done elsewhere because I think it may happen in King County. First the army is going to surround us. Those inside quarantine will live life with restricted travel and work. Some will continue to work but many will stay indoors during an epidemic. The federal government and your tax dollars will have to support us by delivering us food and items for us to survive and combat the virus. Quarantine will be lifted only after the virus is gone but by then a lot of us will be dead but at least we're not spreading the virus to the majority living outside the quarantined area. But if we quarantine too many people and lose production like Italy is doing for an extended period of time, our economy will take a huge hit. If too many nations go into a deep depression and every nation is on it's own, some nations may see their neighbors and their neighbors allies being weak with no will to fight. In a time of weakness, things and people get exploited. Wars can break out.

Since I do earthwork and utilities work, with population reduction construction will slow down. I have a plan. I may get into the grave digging business and rename my business Undertaker Excavation.

Almost everybody you talk to that experiences an old folks home will say it's understaffed. My wife worked at one before. She complained about that too but I told her places like that have a high turnover rate for employees. Who wants to work for little money to give showers and change the diapers on adults?

If regions go into quarantine, I'm afraid a lot of people will have selfish, me first attitudes. Old folks homes will suffer. Some workers will surely quit during a time of quarantine, especially after the announcement today that 70 workers at the old folks home are sick.

http://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/07/us/coronavirus-nursing-home.html

I have a hard time believing they have ZERO deaths. I hope they're not pulling a China on us. I doubt Singaporeans have super immunity systems compared South Koreans and Italians.

From what I seen on Amazon, it's about the same price as in the store. If a whole region goes into quarantine, the biggest problem would be to find enough brave people to deliver to potential infected people everyday.

BillyB..

I have no idea how you are SO 'certain' of how your quarantine conds. might be ...In nations that have adopted them - villages in N.Italy - community spirit seems to have upped ..

You have a very dim view of human nature in adversity ..





Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 08, 2020, 10:56:19 PM
villages in N.Italy - community spirit seems to have upped ..


Let me guess, you visited the place once or talked to somebody from that region once to know that. The medical system in Italy is strained. Some medical professionals are infected. Italy is graduating medical professionals early and calling others out of retirement. The quarantine may be fun and cozy for citizens at first but it's going to get old pretty quick when reality sets in that people are dying, losing their jobs and paychecks, and it's not going to end soon. Wuhan, first city to be quarantined is still under quarantine.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/coronavirus-in-italy-fills-hospital-beds-and-turns-doctors-into-patients/2020/03/03/60a723a2-5c9e-11ea-ac50-18701e14e06d_story.html

Since there are no more college classes, my wife looked at all the very cheap vacation packages and told me about them 10 minutes ago. She is being tempted by the travel industry. She told me hotels and flights are cheap and put her phone in my face so I could get a good look at it. If my county wasn't about to explode with infections, I probably be going on vacation before we enter an era where it's impossible to go on vacation.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 09, 2020, 01:38:54 AM
Let me guess, you visited the place once or talked to somebody from that region once to know that.

VERY Silly BillyB

The retired surgeon - who is my biz partner on a project - flew back from Rep. of Georgia with a break planned to . N.Italy ..

His lady speaks fluent Italian and they were going to stay in an apartment owned by friends ....  They lost their tickets - as they decided NOT to go .. but he is in contact with the family ... 

Whilst I understand YOU might not have such contacts  ... it doesn't mean others don't ...

I have Jackie, married to Sergio in Rome ( went to college with her ) and Marcello - from Sardinia - who I tap for updates .... Do you think all these folk fib to 'upset' you ?

The medical system in Italy is strained. Some medical professionals are infected. Italy is graduating medical professionals early and calling others out of retirement. The quarantine may be fun and cozy for citizens at first but it's going to get old pretty quick when reality sets in that people are dying, losing their jobs and paychecks, and it's not going to end soon. Wuhan, first city to be quarantined is still under quarantine.

Jackie - in Rome - is a teacher and on full pay ( happy enough watching Crufts Dog show in the UK, last night with the VPN I got her  )... the people my biz partner knows  - are in Lombardy ... 1 in 2k people there have been infected ..   a little perspective, may be ?

Since there are no more college classes, my wife looked at all the very cheap vacation packages and told me about them 10 minutes ago. She is being tempted by the travel industry. She told me hotels and flights are cheap and put her phone in my face so I could get a good look at it. If my county wasn't about to explode with infections, I probably be going on vacation before we enter an era where it's impossible to go on vacation.

Not sure what you're trying to say, here .. if it is possible to go,  are you saying you won't go ? 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 09, 2020, 02:36:40 AM
Unlike, you - we are living our lives and taking the govt recommended precautions ...NOT stocking up and ensuring foolish / selfish shoppers won't bring about temporary shortages.


I have not been out in CY for some time ..  I seem to remember even posting this - as I have CY residency and the UKBA pointed out my being in the UK more often - and *I* pointed out to them that I care for my Mum ?!   I use my Irish passport to travel in and out of the UK ..  but the UKBA know I have a UK one !

The Spivs and selfish shoppers might ..


You DO realise that even in China, food is in the supermarkets... ?  It's only rather sad / greedy people that cause empty shelves ..

Have you read that having this virus gives one the runs ?  WHY are folks stocking up on toilet rolls ?

I kid you not ..the shelves are low on pasta ..Muppets think only Italy makes Pasta ?


Trench, did you note that oil prices are crashing ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51796748 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51796748)

'How can this be'?  ..You for-telling of price rises in houses, etc.,

Yes, but China doesn't have the fat women we do. It is fat women and their over consumption of food that is the big problem here. They will want to maintain the size of their fat bums and won't care who else starves to do it. We desperately need the government to introduce food rationing to stop them eating all the food and reduce the size of their bums. They won't like it one bit but when needs must.

Food will start running out if this goes on a long time as society falls apart, potentially.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 09, 2020, 02:43:05 AM
I like the website. Italy has updated new totals since I reported their numbers this morning. They've added 33 new deaths and 33 new recoveries. Mortality rate went up again. I consider Italy the go to country for honest reporting and they report often. Some countries don't report everyday but Italy reports multiple times a day.

That's half of them dying then!!! That is very much a reason to be shocked and alarmed. It is a staggeringly high death rate!

Boris is meeting the Cobra committee today to discuss delay moves such as closing schools, etc. I think this should definitely be done now to stop the spread bolting away as it has done in Italy and elsewhere. Better to take the initiative early than be reactive to a problem too late in the day.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 09, 2020, 03:01:30 AM
Yes, but China doesn't have the fat women we do.

Hmm, and how do you wok THAT out ...?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_China)

I knew this as I see Chinese in Thailand, etc.,   You must walk around with your eyes closed ...or you don't travel much ..

It is fat women and their over consumption of food that is the big problem here. They will want to maintain the size of their fat bums and won't care who else starves to do it. We desperately need the government to introduce food rationing to stop them eating all the food and reduce the size of their bums. They won't like it one bit but when needs must.

Food will start running out if this goes on a long time as society falls apart, potentially.

'We' have fat guys, too and many people who over eat - eat cheap crappie food ..


BTW : There may be a trend appearing that guys seem to be more at risk than ladies ( in China) ..

With ever post - you seem to strive to prove misogyny is strong in you







Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 09, 2020, 07:19:54 AM
Before you alarmists lose control of your wits, consider the Singapore case.  Singapore is a city nation of five million people. 

Singapore was one of the worst hit countries when the virus first started spreading outside China.  However,  it had long been preparing for epidemics, after its history with SARS. 

Today the number of total cases is small, only 150, with 90 recoveries.  60 cases are still active, of which 9 are critical.  Number of deaths is ZERO, yet official say deaths are inevitable. 

Was the small number of infections due to the warm climate, as Krimster might claim?  Maybe the climate helped, yet Singapore's response according to this article explains "Tough laws and semi-invasive methods coupled with cajoling and cheerleading are Singapore’s way of handling epidemics."  The article covers the detailed vigilance their epidemiologists undertook to contain the outbreak. 

http://thediplomat.com/2020/03/how-singapore-connected-the-dots-on-coronavirus/

The state and local health officials in the US are manning the frontline against this disease.  They have the capability to do the same.  The question is whether Americans will cooperate or will they panic.   

Agreed. The hysteria is at Defcon 5 now as evidenced by the reactions here, at RWD. The markets and onslaught of media coverage only fuels the baseless panic. 3200 deaths so far world wide from the corona virus and in that same time span about 940,000 deaths by abortion and yet not one flag is raised.

Right now globally people are accepting martial law and quarantine like blind sheep for a virus that hasn't reached the heights, deaths or contagion of the seasonal flu virus. Makes one to wonder what is really behind the wide spread panic
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 09, 2020, 07:38:02 AM
Yes, but China doesn't have the fat women we do. It is fat women and their over consumption of food that is the big problem here.


There are more overweight men than women in the U.K. 


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 09, 2020, 07:55:39 AM

Right now globally people are accepting martial law and quarantine like blind sheep

You are free to challenge the wisdom of such laws .... 

3200 deaths so far world wide from the corona virus and in that same time span about 940,000 deaths by abortion and yet not one flag is raised.

What ?  That's supposed to be some sort of comparison?

Virus v a choice ?! ( Well it should be a choice )


 

Right now globally people are accepting martial law and quarantine like blind sheep for a virus that hasn't reached the heights, deaths or contagion of the seasonal flu virus. Makes one to wonder what is really behind the wide spread panic

Makes one wonder how ANYONE  could believe govts like S.Korea, China and Italy are involved in  some giant conspiracy..




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 09, 2020, 07:59:41 AM
Agreed. The hysteria is at Defcon 5 now as evidenced by the reactions here, at RWD. The markets and onslaught of media coverage only fuels the baseless panic. 3200 deaths so far world wide from the corona virus and in that same time span about 940,000 deaths by abortion and yet not one flag is raised


You would think the public would be panic-driven to the umpteenth degree and empty all condom/birth control shelves because of that, no?

It's still hard for me to believe part of *my* tax help pay for these killings. F*#k Obama!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 09, 2020, 08:11:00 AM


It's still hard for me to believe part of *my* tax help pay for these killings. F*#k Obama!

The subject - here - is a virus ... not your feelings re abortion

Feel free to start a thread on that, though ..


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 09, 2020, 08:15:13 AM
The subject - here - is a virus ... not your feelings re abortion

Feel free to start a thread on that, though ..

...and yet you enter your silly endless bullying squabble with trenchcoat in every thread. That pot sure is black as night.

For example...

'We' have fat guys, too and many people who over eat - eat cheap crappie food ..

With ever post - you seem to strive to prove misogyny is strong in you

Since when did fat people became a virus? LMAO!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2020, 08:38:17 AM
Singapore was one of the worst hit countries when the virus first started spreading outside China.  However,  it had long been preparing for epidemics, after its history with SARS. 

Today the number of total cases is small, only 150, with 90 recoveries.  60 cases are still active, of which 9 are critical.  Number of deaths is ZERO, yet official say deaths are inevitable. 


Coming back to this again because Germany also reports zero deaths although they have over a 1000 infected. It's possible Germany and Singapore are not lying but are avoiding reporting the truth to avoid panic and damage to their economies.

http://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

We may see other trustworthy nations eventually adopt the same policy of not reporting anything and they may put pressure on John Hopkins and other websites to remove damaging info. Look what Italy, South Korea, USA, France, and Spain are reporting for deaths and recoveries at the moment. Not a good ratio. As our sample pool gets bigger, we can more accurately predict the mortality rate.

onslaught of media coverage only fuels the baseless panic.


Actually the media is under reporting the magnitude of the situation. There are probably millions of viruses we can get and doesn't affect our lives much but there is one virus with two strains that has got governments to lock down 10% of the worlds population in a matter of months.

Many colleges in Seattle, including the University of Washington is shut down. Local government will shut down restaurants if they don't have hand sanitizer available for customers. The rationing of hand sanitizers and masks have begun and sales are banned on online websites like Ebay.

Personally, I'm not panicking. There's no reason to panic until it's time to panic and that time is when the economy and society collapses and everybody is on their own. If my county or city goes into quarantine, I know the State and Federal government have the capacity to help those stuck on the inside. When the State and Federal government loses the ability to help those stuck on the inside, that is the time to panic. Pay attention to Italy. Their economy wasn't strong to begin with and they just quarantined 25% of their people.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 09, 2020, 08:46:45 AM
...Actually the media is under reporting the magnitude of the situation. There are probably millions of viruses we can get and doesn't affect our lives much but there is one virus with two strains that has got governments to lock down 10% of the worlds population in a matter of months...

I disagree.

The world's total population is 7.53 BILLION. Your John Hopkins site reports 111,363 confirmed infection. In the period of 4 months, what's the infection rate given the numbers above? How can anything so relatively 'benign' be given so much media attention? A whole bunch of folks act as though this is the coming of the zombie apocalypse.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2020, 09:04:10 AM
The world's total population is 7.53 BILLION. Your John Hopkins site reports 111,363 confirmed infection.


Those numbers aren't scary. The facts are scary and those in the know know this can get real bad real soon if it's not stopped. I did some reading on this virus when it came out from legit sources, not conspiracy theory websites.  I never made comments in the past on MERS, SARS, and the various swine and bird flus that showed up at one time and a don't have a reputation for being a dooms day predicter every week but if there is a doomsday virus we'd see in our lifetime, this could be it. The numbers you posted aren't scary but these facts are.

1) COVID-19 is related to the cold virus and there is no cure for the cold after over a 100 years of trying to find one.
2) If you get the virus and recover, you may later get it again just like we get the cold. Don't expect us to build an immunity to it. Yes, old people die easier but if a young person doesn't die now, the person may die later. We get 2-3 colds a year on average.
2) Mortality rates are very high in nations with good health care systems. If everybody in the world got this thing just once, abortion and flu deaths would pale to what this virus will do to us. Governments allow the cold virus and flu virus to get out of control and live side by side with us. Cold viruses are harmless and the more dangerous flu viruses can be slowed down by vaccines. Imagine a much more dangerous virus that lives with us forever without a vaccine to slow it down.

Even if a person doesn't understand the mortality rates and characteristics of this virus, they shouldn't pay attention to what governments say and influence the media on what to report. They should pay attention to what governments do.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 09, 2020, 09:16:29 AM
The odds so far of winning the lotto is much better than you dying of this virus at this time, BillyB.

But I do understand despite the ridiculous odds of the lottery, millions of people still buy lotto tickets, FWIW.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on March 09, 2020, 09:25:16 AM
Spring break is coming to university here next week.

Similar timing to many universities across the USA.

This will lead (when the kids come back) to a tremendous jump in Corona cases in areas that have been isolated from such up to this point.

I am worried as I will have my gall bladder surgery tomorrow, and will be in weakened condition for some time . . . and wife will have increased risk of bringing illnesses of all types into our home from students.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 09, 2020, 09:33:36 AM
I would relish a report from our Milan correspondent "canary in the coal mine."

Sandro, what's happening?   Chirp us a song please. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 09, 2020, 09:39:09 AM
Spring break is coming to university here next week.

Similar timing to many universities across the USA.

This will lead (when the kids come back) to a tremendous jump in Corona cases in areas that have been isolated from such up to this point.

:grin: Usually they are served in plastic cups from kegs and draft dispensaries. Besides, new trend with millennials are party hurricane and lava flow cocktails these days.

Quote
I am worried as I will have my gall bladder surgery tomorrow, and will be in weakened condition for some time . . . and wife will have increased risk of bringing illnesses of all types into our home from students.

Good luck on that. May you have a speedy recovery.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2020, 09:41:56 AM
The odds so far of winning the lotto is much better than you dying of this virus at this time, BillyB.


If I factor in the rest of the population of America, you're right but if I look at what is happening just where I live, you're wrong. I wish you weren't wrong though.

There's about 2.2 million people in King County, WA.  83 are infected without including the 70 sick nursing home employees since their illness is yet to be determine. 2.2 million divided by 83 means 1 out of every 26,505 people in the county are confirmed infected. Of course there's more walking around undetected. Since 19 people in the county have died, 1 out of 115,800 people have died from the virus that we know of. There could be other COVID-19 deaths that doctors incorrectly blamed something else as being the cause.

King County may be become the next Lombardy Italy. 1 out of every 8200 people in Italy are currently infected. One out of every 165,245 Italians are dead from the virus but if you concentrate on the Lombardy region and not include the rest of the population in Italy to water down the numbers, the situation in Lombardy becomes real grim. Grim conditions means government lockdown.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 09, 2020, 09:51:08 AM
If I factor in the rest of the population of America, you're right but if I look at what is happening just where I live, you're wrong. I wish you weren't wrong though.

There's about 2.2 million people in King County, WA.  83 are infected without including the 70 sick nursing home employees since their illness is yet to be determine. 2.2 million divided by 83 means 1 out of every 26,505 people in the county are confirmed infected. Of course there's more walking around undetected. Since 19 people in the county have died, 1 out of 115,800 people have died from the virus that we know of. There could be other COVID-19 deaths that doctors incorrectly blamed something else as being the cause.

King County may be become the next Lombardy Italy. 1 out of every 8200 people in Italy are currently infected. One out of every 165,245 Italians are dead from the virus but if you concentrate on the Lombardy region and not include the rest of the population in Italy to water down the numbers, the situation in Lombardy becomes real grim. Grim conditions means government lockdown.

Don't worry, BillyB. It gets even better than these numbers because then you need to splice in age ranges and their respective probability of death of those confirmed to be infected. 0-15 is zero - 81+ with medical condition is 25+% (report I last saw).

But I am glad to see you're exercising precautions.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 09, 2020, 09:59:42 AM

I am worried as I will have my gall bladder surgery tomorrow, and will be in weakened condition for some time . . . and wife will have increased risk of bringing illnesses of all types into our home from students.

Good luck!    Do you come home after the surgery, or do you stay in the hospital?
Convalescing at home would be safer due to fewer  social contacts.   If you and your wife follow these practices, your COVID-19 risk is virtually zero. 

(http://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2020/03/1862/1048/dr-oz-virus.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)

My guess is touching surfaces is the greatest source of risk. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2020, 10:04:00 AM

Don't worry, BillyB. It gets even better than these numbers because then you need to splice in age ranges and their respective probability of death of those confirmed to be infected. 0-15 is zero - 81+ with medical condition is 25+% (report I last saw).

But I am glad to see you're exercising precautions.

I'm very optimistic I, my family, and most people on this forum can survive a battle of COVID-19. However, if it behaves like the cold virus and we have to battle it 2-3 times a year for the rest of our lives, most likely our deaths will be blamed on COVID-19 instead of something else.

Also, I'm not worried about being locked down by the government 30 days. I've had lots of experience. I'm married.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 09, 2020, 10:17:35 AM
Something to worry about. 

America has a total of  about 940,000 hospital beds, of which 600,000 are in use at any moment.   That yields a reserve of about one hospital bed available per 1,000 people. 

Outbreaks will not be distributed uniformly across America, so if COVID continues to spread, some centers of infection will not have enough hospital beds for patients requiring intensive care.   China had the same situation and built large, temporary hospitals in two weeks.   This fast track capacity is not available in the US because of many restrictions (zoning, construction permits, contracting, etc.).

How about the number of available ventilators?     
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2020, 10:35:28 AM
Something to worry about. 

America has a total of  about 940,000 hospital beds, of which 600,000 are in use at any moment.   That yields a reserve of about one hospital bed available per 1,000 people. 


Tourism to Seattle is tanking. Hotels are losing money. Owners can sell their hotels to the government. My county and local governments in China have bought hotels to turn them into hospitals or quarantine zones.

China had the same situation and built large, temporary hospitals in two weeks.   This fast track capacity is not available in the US because of many restrictions (zoning, construction permits, contracting, etc.).


There may come a day where Americans say "Fukc the rules" and just get it done. Government may eventually use soldiers to round up contractors to do a government project and they won't take "no" for an answer.

How about the number of available ventilators? 
   

Machines to assist breathing and oxygen bottles are critical to keeping people alive long enough so they can build up enough antibodies to beat the virus. Our government visited 3M for more masks. I'm sure they paid a visit to companies that make equipment to help with breathing.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 09, 2020, 10:48:59 AM
Something to worry about. 

America has a total of  about 940,000 hospital beds, of which 600,000 are in use at any moment.   That yields a reserve of about one hospital bed available per 1,000 people. 

Outbreaks will not be distributed uniformly across America, so if COVID continues to spread, some centers of infection will not have enough hospital beds for patients requiring intensive care.   China had the same situation and built large, temporary hospitals in two weeks.   This fast track capacity is not available in the US because of many restrictions (zoning, construction permits, contracting, etc.).

How about the number of available ventilators?   

I would assume this will be handled the same way we have in recent past when other tragedies warrant immediate provisions by hosting them in arenas and large scaled sporting venues or convention centers. Even football arenas with roofs even. High school or collegiate gymnasiums, etc...Or even those FEMA trailers...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2020, 11:01:05 AM
I would assume this will be handled the same way we have in recent past when other tragedies warrant immediate provisions by hosting them in arenas and large scaled sporting venues or convention centers. Even football arenas with roofs even. High school or collegiate gymnasiums, etc...Or even those FEMA trailers...

China has already taken over sports arenas, warehouses and office buildings. Problem with that is we're dealing with an infectious disease. As beds will be side by side with no walls between them, it's not comforting for a person who is trying to get over the virus to know the guy next to him is coughing and sneezing more viruses into the air.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 09, 2020, 11:14:10 AM
China has already taken over sports arenas, warehouses and office buildings. Problem with that is we're dealing with an infectious disease. As beds will be side by side with no walls between them, it's not comforting for a person who is trying to get over the virus to know the guy next to him is coughing and sneezing more viruses into the air.

Well, I would hope our medical professionals and caretakers aren't silly enough to confine infected and non-infected folks 'side-by-side' no?

Otherwise, we'd end up like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuFZxdh5rzA
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2020, 11:43:36 AM

Italy just reported their numbers. Yesterday they had recorded totals of 366 deaths to 622 recoveries. Today's totals are 463 deaths to 724 recoveries which means they added 97 new dead and 102 new recoveries. They had a very bad day with the mortality rate getting worse, not better. France, Spain, and the USA are all currently experiencing worse mortality rates than Italy.

http://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 09, 2020, 12:04:17 PM
As long as folks won't or can't pay copays and don't have sick leave they will go to work and infect others.  Tests may be free, but the ER and doctor visits are not. Considering the lack of testing and even availability of tests, chances are the US is vastly undercounting.  Even the Surgeon General was not able to guestimate the number of people that have been tested.  Most EU countries have considerably more hospital beds and doctors per capita than the US.  Obviously, Italy acquired a lot of testing kits.  Sure, Lombardia which is a densely populated area that is a transit hub with three major airports, many tourists etc will be hard hit.  Kids are out of school sitting it out at home with big events and even small banned countrywide and not only in affected areas. I cancelled a business trip and others are staying at home as well. See the attached photo to get an idea which areas are going to be most at risk in Europe.

The first two confirmed Covid deaths reported in Germany today, with 1140 confirmed sick.  More sure to come.  All just a matter of time.

This isn't a problem you can just throw money at to fix.  In reality, this pandemic is just a shot over the bow affecting mainly the elderly and those with other conditions that put them at risk.  We may not be so lucky one of the 'next times' that will surely come when we least expect it.

The one positive side of all this is that aside from showing how unprepared we are for such, maybe folks will start thinking that it is better to mandate flu shots for everyone next year, especially if a Covid vaccine can be combined with flu shots.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 09, 2020, 12:13:06 PM
Aren't flu shots already widely available, BC?


After SARS, flu shots became very readily accessible across Canada, and provincial health authorities advise all to get them.  You can go to a physician's office or a pharmacy to receive a flu shot.  At pharmacies, you just go in, tell them you want a shot, and about 15 minutes later, you're on your way.  Some offices arrange to have health nurses come in and give shots to workers.  The shots are covered by healthcare here, so are free to those receiving them.


This post was composed without the aid of google.



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 09, 2020, 12:37:04 PM
makes sense, a bit of info that gets lost
if you look at the Chinese data....
while Covid-19 is raging, flu infections are ALSO up 50% simultaneously...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 09, 2020, 12:49:22 PM
Aren't flu shots already widely available, BC?

Yes, they are readily available, but not everyone gets them yearly.  I'd guess around half do, half don't which even applies for the US.  Here the risk groups get it free and for the rest, it's still an option they avoid.   Many tens of thousands could live a bit longer if flu shots were mandated for all.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on March 09, 2020, 01:14:06 PM
GQ:  “Good luck on that. May you have a speedy recovery.”

Gator: “Good luck!    Do you come home after the surgery, or do you stay in the hospital?”

Thanks fellas.

As always, whether one goes home immediately or stays overnight depends on . . .
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2020, 01:28:40 PM
makes sense, a bit of info that gets lost
if you look at the Chinese data....
while Covid-19 is raging, flu infections are ALSO up 50% simultaneously...

China may report someone as having or died from the flu or other illnesses when in fact they have COVID-19. Helps keep the COVID-19 numbers down so people don't think things are so bad in China.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 09, 2020, 02:42:18 PM
The one positive side of all this is that aside from showing how unprepared we are for such, maybe folks will start thinking that it is better to mandate flu shots for everyone next year, especially if a Covid vaccine can be combined with flu shots.

Flu shots are free yet some idiots forgo it.

Reference your comment about being unprepared.   That certainly showed in regard to the limited availability of testing, now being corrected.  The Global Health Security Index for 2019 ranked the preparedness of the world's nations.

Quote
   The United States was named as the country with the strongest measures in place and it came first with 83.5 out of 100. The United Kingdom came second with 77.9 followed by the Netherlands with 75.6. China, which has initiated a series of lockdowns in response to the outbreak, comes 51st with a score of 48.2.


http://www.statista.com/chart/20629/ability-to-respond-to-an-epidemic-or-pandemic/

http://www.ghsindex.org/

The US is ranked the best, yet hysterics abound. 

Don't travel to Somalia.  Imagine what will happen if this disease reaches underdeveloped nations. 

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 09, 2020, 02:43:18 PM
You are free to challenge the wisdom of such laws .... 

Naturally YOU can't fathom civil liberties and freedom being stripped as we speak. I'm not surprised

Quote
What ?  That's supposed to be some sort of comparison?
3200 deaths have you wringing your hands but 940,000 and you don't even blink? If you want a better comparison there were 280,000 deaths from influenza last year

Quote
Virus v a choice ?! ( Well it should be a choice )
There was no choice for the baby. Perhaps there should have been. It was the baby's life you know?


 
Quote
Makes one wonder how ANYONE  could believe govts like S.Korea, China and Italy are involved in  some giant conspiracy..

Who said that? You connected epidemic hysteria to conspiracy? Hummm
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 09, 2020, 02:55:38 PM
I'm very optimistic I, my family, and most people on this forum can survive a battle of COVID-19. However, if it behaves like the cold virus and we have to battle it 2-3 times a year for the rest of our lives, most likely our deaths will be blamed on COVID-19 instead of something else.

Also, I'm not worried about being locked down by the government 30 days. I've had lots of experience. I'm married.

Nonetheless, I would recommend you start immediately on recommended for your size or heavy doses of vitamin C. The news outlets are quick to tell you how to wash your hands but none of them are discussing preventative measures with vitamin C " therapy. It has been showing great promise in Wuhan of all places. Vitamin C strengthens the immune system. You can take too little VC but you can't take too much. I'm not bullshitting you
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 09, 2020, 03:20:42 PM
Naturally YOU can't fathom civil liberties and freedom being stripped as we speak. I'm not surprised

I have no problem with such laws - they are implemented to attempt to save lives .. Only an utter idiot would forget how I fight and win when laws are not implemented correctly ... guess what .. there's a time and a place and it's not now, in say, Italy .


3200 deaths have you wringing your hands but 940,000 and you don't even blink? If you want a better comparison there were 280,000 deaths from influenza last year

IF you'd been paying attention, you'll find that 'hand wringing' has not been something you've seen from me ... travelling about Europe / Asia ... :popcorn:

Again, we are discussing a virus ... NOT abortion .. and you can start a thread on that anytime .. 

 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2020, 03:42:13 PM
Nonetheless, I would recommend you start immediately on recommended for your size or heavy doses of vitamin C. The news outlets are quick to tell you how to wash your hands but none of them are discussing preventative measures with vitamin C " therapy. It has been showing great promise in Wuhan of all places. Vitamin C strengthens the immune system. You can take too little VC but you can't take too much. I'm not bullshitting you

Thanks for the advice. My wife already started me on vitamins but I'll go ahead and buy heavy doses of Vitamin C because it does help the immune system.

I spoke to a friend of mine who once worked as a nurse and then a security guard for a hospital. Sometimes he'll run drills teaching medical personnel how to handle a biological, chemical, and nuclear situation within a hospital. He knows how dangerous this new virus is and I asked him if he thought the government is doing the right thing by downplaying it. He believes they are doing the right thing. He said there's a universal answer that works regardless if it's a person with a few days to live or a catastrophe that will kill a lot of people. When asked about a dire situation, the answer should always be "Everything is going to be alright".
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 09, 2020, 03:44:00 PM
Nonetheless, I would recommend you start immediately on recommended for your size or heavy doses of vitamin C. The news outlets are quick to tell you how to wash your hands but none of them are discussing preventative measures with vitamin C " therapy. It has been showing great promise in Wuhan of all places. Vitamin C strengthens the immune system. You can take too little VC but you can't take too much. I'm not bullshitting you

If at all possible, avoid Bingo parlors, Denny’s, Sizzlers, etc at least until there’s vaccine for this virus. 

Currently in my DR.’s office. Flu shots are free. He tells me Italy conducted a program yesterday where intubation is now called off for elderly people infected with covid-19 😢 They’re just gonna let them die. Social medicine for yah. Apparently it’s an exercise in futility when care and effort can instead by focused on the young. Lol.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/coronavirus-in-italy-fills-hospital-beds-and-turns-doctors-into-patients/2020/03/03/60a723a2-5c9e-11ea-ac50-18701e14e06d_story.html

Quote
Costantino Troise, the head of the medical union Anaao Assomed, said medical workers accounted for about 5 percent of infections in Italy. He said recent funding cuts meant that even before the virus hit, the country had been facing a shortage of thousands of doctors and nurses.

FP you can overdose on Vit C. Best get your daily dose from food vs  supplement. The side effect isn’t bad though. It’s the acid property in the vitamin. You might need to stock up on toilet paper, is all

btw: Blood sampling for the physical, Physical, did EKG, flu shot, went through blood result with me, etc...no copay, no cost. Zip, zero, nada mullah...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 09, 2020, 03:45:21 PM
I have no problem with such laws - they are implemented to attempt to save lives .. Only an utter idiot would forget how I fight and win when laws are not implemented correctly ... guess what .. there's a time and a place and it's not now, in say, Italy .

IF you'd been paying attention, you'll find that 'hand wringing' has not been something you've seen from me ... travelling about Europe / Asia ... :popcorn:

Again, we are discussing a virus ... NOT abortion .. and you can start a thread on that anytime ..

You fight and win?
 :ROFL:

I am discussing the hype from the virus. Whether you like it or not, it is part of the discussion. The virus for the more level headed among us should be kept in prospective. Question authority. The deaths associated with it as well as the sickness is still low comparatively.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 09, 2020, 04:12:25 PM
You fight and win?
 :ROFL:

I am discussing the hype from the virus. Whether you like it or not, it is part of the discussion. The virus for the more level headed among us should be kept in prospective. Question authority. The deaths associated with it as well as the sickness is still low comparatively.

The sickness on the surface is comparatively low, numbering in the UK at around 311 or so in a population of nearly 68 Million people. Yet the virus itself could be seen as a bit like an iceberg, many more can already have it but symptoms won't show themselves for up to 14 days, maybe even occasionally longer. It has also been alleged that some may have it and not realise as their symptoms are so mild, whether this is accurate remains to be seen.

Main problem is that once a person shows they have it what then? They could either recover quickly over the course of 14 days or so. They could recover but take a long time to recover, maybe weeks. They could fight the illness for several weeks then die or they may die fairly quickly (each as those with underlying health problems) within days.

Those that are in for the long fight to either recover or die after several weeks fighting the disease won't show in the statistics for weeks after first being diagnosed and added to the count of those that have contracted the virus. So in a country like the UK or US that are about around the same stage in the virus spread we likely won't know how dangerous the virus is or see the death rate climb for several weeks, perhaps in two to three weeks time from now. Since a lot of those cases may be those in for a long several week fight with the disease.

What we see early on is just mainly old people with underlying health problems that of course go fast. We don't see those that are younger and fitter that may not make it and go several weeks later. It gives the impression that it is just those with underlying health problems that will die but it is not necessarily the case.

I think this virus should give us pause for thought on how we go about our daily lives and how we, society and business organise ourselves. In my opinion we need to avoid a lot of unnecessary hand contact and close proximity in our everyday dealings with each other and find alternate ways to do things and remove all the unneeded close contact tasks.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2020, 04:23:53 PM

The whole nation of Italy with 60+ million people will now be locked down. Tens of millions of people on earth are getting locked down on a daily basis but there's no reason to panic so please remain calm and carry on. Everything is going to be alright.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/stocks-oil-prices-plunge-virus-085203396.html

Live coverage with VP Pence and Trump just happened. They've announced aid for individuals who lost their job and companies hurt due to the virus.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 09, 2020, 05:04:53 PM
locked down is a loose term.  Stick around your town unless you have a good reason, like work or other regular biz where you need to go to another town, city or country.  Basically print a form that states your destination and reason for travel and carry it in case you get stopped for a control.  Kids are enjoying a month out of school and rest is pretty much normal aside from no gatherings, and events like the weekly market, movies etc.  Shopping malls will be pretty empty except for local folks.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 09, 2020, 05:07:50 PM
The whole nation of Italy with 60+ million people will now be locked down. Tens of millions of people on earth are getting locked down on a daily basis but there's no reason to panic so please remain calm and carry on. Everything is going to be alright.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/stocks-oil-prices-plunge-virus-085203396.html

Live coverage with VP Pence and Trump just happened. They've announced aid for individuals who lost their job and companies hurt due to the virus.

That's f*cking shocking Billy :o I wondered if you were being serious when you said the whole of Italy is now on lockdown, had to go look at the news to see, absolutely stunned by it, and the 'experts' tell us not to panic, lol.

Just shows how serious we should all be taking this virus. Italy has gone down in a matter of weeks and unless we up our game significantly both in the UK and the US, we're next! A frightening thought indeed.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2020, 05:19:30 PM
locked down is a loose term.  Stick around your town unless you have a good reason, like work or other regular biz where you need to go to another town, city or country.  Basically print a form that states your destination and reason for travel and carry it in case you get stopped for a control.  Kids are enjoying a month out of school and rest is pretty much normal aside from no gatherings, and events like the weekly market, movies etc.  Shopping malls will be pretty empty except for local folks.

Look on the bright side BC, when people stay at home more often, sex happens more often. After this is over, I wouldn't be surprised to see a baby boom in Italy. Hopefully the lockdown Italy is employing works to slow and stop the spread of the virus. If the lock down doesn't work, expect more restrictions.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 09, 2020, 05:34:11 PM

Currently in my DR.’s office. Flu shots are free. He tells me Italy conducted a program yesterday where intubation is now called off for elderly people infected with covid-19 😢 They’re just gonna let them die. Social medicine for yah. Apparently it’s an exercise in futility when care and effort can instead by focused on the young. Lol.


Has nothing at all to do with social medicine.  Here's the accurate info if you can read it. http://www.ilpost.it/2020/03/09/coronavirus-terapia-intensiva/

Here in Italy a large part of the 'lock down' if you want to call it that is to slow down the pace of infection so that hospital resources are not totally overwhelmed.  Basically says to be prudent with therapy and try to keep as many as possible off respirators.  Your doc is spreading a bit of hype.  I feel more comfortable here than I would in the US where per capita resources are considerably less and more difficulty with folks getting 'locked down' eventually overloading hospitals that will have to force some very tough choices.  Don't forget that those providing care are at higher risk for infection and will have to go home themselves further reducing treatment capacity.  Here they are pulling retired docs back into service and letting nursing students graduate early.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 09, 2020, 05:37:27 PM
The sickness on the surface is comparatively low, numbering in the UK at around 311 or so in a population of nearly 68 Million people. Yet the virus itself could be seen as a bit like an iceberg, many more can already have it but symptoms won't show themselves for up to 14 days, maybe even occasionally longer. It has also been alleged that some may have it and not realise as their symptoms are so mild, whether this is accurate remains to be seen.

Main problem is that once a person shows they have it what then? They could either recover quickly over the course of 14 days or so. They could recover but take a long time to recover, maybe weeks. They could fight the illness for several weeks then die or they may die fairly quickly (each as those with underlying health problems) within days.

Those that are in for the long fight to either recover or die after several weeks fighting the disease won't show in the statistics for weeks after first being diagnosed and added to the count of those that have contracted the virus. So in a country like the UK or US that are about around the same stage in the virus spread we likely won't know how dangerous the virus is or see the death rate climb for several weeks, perhaps in two to three weeks time from now. Since a lot of those cases may be those in for a long several week fight with the disease.

What we see early on is just mainly old people with underlying health problems that of course go fast. We don't see those that are younger and fitter that may not make it and go several weeks later. It gives the impression that it is just those with underlying health problems that will die but it is not necessarily the case.

I think this virus should give us pause for thought on how we go about our daily lives and how we, society and business organise ourselves. In my opinion we need to avoid a lot of unnecessary hand contact and close proximity in our everyday dealings with each other and find alternate ways to do things and remove all the unneeded close contact tasks.

Your line of thought is perpetuating the hysteria. The media can not let it rest and ignores other news of the world. Worldwide some 94,000 have contracted the virus 3200 have died many of those are elderly and other under lying issues. The contagion of the virus is 2. The contagion of SARS was 4 and for the measles is 18. 55,000 of the 94,000 recovered.

It is okay to assume for a minute that the panic caused by the mainstream media is just that, panic. The tip of the iceberg? Hardly. We'll see more cases of that I had no doubt. There's no epidemic even yet much less a pandemic. What you should be asking yourself is why now? COVID isn't ebola, it isn't even SARS or seasonal influenza. Yet all MSM news outlets gloss over that factoid.

I'm not at all indicating that measures shouldn't be taken to slow and stop the virus. Not at all but you should ask yourself, why this one and why now?

http://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-update-50000-recoveries-global-cases-1490495?fbclid=IwAR2msbFukyVmi55VKAAaPfVmUNiMnzzD0RKAq9XVLtQ9J7TQn-3eObCNZlk (http://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-update-50000-recoveries-global-cases-1490495?fbclid=IwAR2msbFukyVmi55VKAAaPfVmUNiMnzzD0RKAq9XVLtQ9J7TQn-3eObCNZlk)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2020, 06:13:44 PM
COVID isn't ebola, it isn't even SARS or seasonal influenza. Yet all MSM news outlets gloss over that factoid.


This virus is worse than all of those. Very dangerous. Mortality rate is intentionally underestimated. Unlike those other diseases, A person can infect others before showing symptoms. A cure may never be found.

Bill Gates have participated in a lot of philanthropy and his foundation has been there for every epidemic and he has become an expert himself since he studies these thing and have experienced past epidemics. On COVID he said "Covid-19 has started behaving a lot like the once-in-a-century pathogen we’ve been worried about." He didn't say that about SARS, Ebola, MERS and the various swine and birds flus that were experienced the last few decades.

http://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-update-50000-recoveries-global-cases-1490495?fbclid=IwAR2msbFukyVmi55VKAAaPfVmUNiMnzzD0RKAq9XVLtQ9J7TQn-3eObCNZlk (http://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-update-50000-recoveries-global-cases-1490495?fbclid=IwAR2msbFukyVmi55VKAAaPfVmUNiMnzzD0RKAq9XVLtQ9J7TQn-3eObCNZlk)


Newsweek touts 50,000 people recovered. 80% of the weight of the report is based on what China is telling us and they are lying. They report only 3000 deaths but it's a lot more. The Chinese province of Zhejiang has a similar population to Italy and they've reported 1176 people recovered and only one person died from the virus. Italy reports they had 724 people making a full recovery and 463 people died. HUGE difference and I doubt the Chinese have much better immunity systems than Italians. But with reports from trustworthy nations, we begin to understand how truly dangerous this virus is. Go to the John Hopkins link below and click on all nations with 200 or more infections and see the dead and recovered numbers for those nations. Ignore China and Iran. Mortality rate from developed nations with good healthcare systems average about 30% which is much higher than what the media is reporting. China's reporting has watered down the mortality rate.

http://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 09, 2020, 06:23:14 PM
OMG!!!

so, if after colliding with an iceberg, the amount of water that flowed into the Titanic
increased by 20% each minute....

how long before the ship sinks?

oh, sorry...
I meant covid-19 cases in the USA and not the water entering the Titanic
and each day, and not each minute...

but the question remains...
how long before the ship sinks?

study a graph of USA cases and see where it correlates with China, Korea and Italy
how long before we shut down all schools in the USA?
what’s your guess? will it be weeks or months?

“hopefully, no one will blame the ship’s captain for this..."
is your ONLY regret, as you briefly dog paddle in the frigid North Sea
watching in horror as the HMS Titanic slips forever beneath the foaming waves...
really?


LMFAO!
Trump voters say the craziest stuff EVAH!
slovo!

all your bases belong to us!

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 09, 2020, 06:57:08 PM
OMG!!!

“hopefully, no one will blame the ship’s captain for this..."
is your ONLY regret, as you briefly dog paddle in the frigid North Sea
watching in horror as the HMS Titanic slips forever beneath the foaming waves...
really?


LMFAO!
Trump voters say the craziest stuff EVAH!

slovo!

all your bases belong to us!

:ROFL:

Well this Trump voter can easily point the error in this statement. Foam in seawater/waves is caused by dissolving protein or organic in the water such as algae churned by the waves. The water was still the night titanic sunk. Frigid waters, as was the case with Titanic, was in the low 40s, if not colder, which means decay, decomposition or dissolving of protein is hardly possible to churn the seawater to foam. Algae require a minimum of 60 degrees to survive.

Sorry but this is taught in elementary level oceanography class.

FWIW and yes, I will vote for Trump again
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 09, 2020, 07:08:49 PM
why is there foam in a pint of stout then, eh?
it comes from gas trapped in a liquid bubbling to the top...
cuz of the algae?
not in what I drink...
and I got all the way up to jr high school in ADVANCED PLACEMENT Oceanography....
elementary oceanography.... haha, they didn't even cover hydrothermal vents in elementary school...
you were probably scraping all the mussels off the rocks for dinner on your field trips to!!!
wearing your little straw hat...

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 09, 2020, 07:15:13 PM
Because of carbon dioxide released when the pressure is alleviated. The carbon is derived/created from the residual hops/ barley/ grain that fermented to make that beer.  Soda pop do the same thing although it lacks the grain properties to hold its shape/foam. They call this beer head.

Just helping out, is all.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 09, 2020, 07:27:54 PM
wow...so a compressed gas will float upwards through a dense liquid
physically mix with the liquid
and create a foam at the surface....

that was elementary school physics
discussing the physical properties of matter
you probably went to a disadvantaged school
and got the non AP version of this class

or just learned physics and chemistry "in the streets" like a lot of kids





Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 09, 2020, 07:37:01 PM
Relax Krim. Just pointed out the error in your statement is all. I see a lot of them in your posts. The only difference with this one is the irony in your silly attempt to try and insult others by writing a bonehead statement. It’s like that water burning leaves gig, you know.

You’ll get over it in the morning.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2020, 08:02:19 PM

All though WHO is calling for all nations to put out all the stops on this virus now,  on January 9 WHO praised China for their quick ability to identify this new virus and capability to manage it. WHO should've put out warnings to all nations back in early January but they were  misled by China. We now know that the virus was discovered much earlier than when China first reported it and we know they never had it under control spreading recklessly within and outside of their country. Their deception and lack of transparency is now getting a lot of people killed, not to mention we may have to live with this virus forever if we lose control of it.

http://www.who.int/china/news/detail/09-01-2020-who-statement-regarding-cluster-of-pneumonia-cases-in-wuhan-china
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 09, 2020, 08:23:45 PM
SillyBillyB,


Where have you read WHO criticising / chastising China, subsequently?.....

Whilst I realise you are becoming an 'expert' on micro-biology and there is an element of 'not the right moment', I would like to ask you how you believe knowing earlier would have changed anything?

Example: Italy was one of the first nations to ban (direct ) flights from China...

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 09, 2020, 08:51:01 PM
All though WHO is calling for all nations to put out all the stops on this virus now,  on January 9 WHO praised China for their quick ability to identify this new virus and capability to manage it. WHO should've put out warnings to all nations back in early January but they were  misled by China. We now know that the virus was discovered much earlier than when China first reported it and we know they never had it under control spreading recklessly within and outside of their country. Their deception and lack of transparency is now getting a lot of people killed, not to mention we may have to live with this virus forever if we lose control of it.

You’re killing me, Billy  :P

Maybe China had to find away to scare the beejesuus out of those Hong Kong prostesters as Beijing was losing total control of that situation while the world looked on. After all, those riot moved out of the media focus since the virus came around. The plan worked! They seemed to have found a way to have those protesters stay home.

🤪
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2020, 09:02:38 PM
Where have you read WHO criticising / chastising China, subsequently?.....


WHO belongs to the UN. International organizations aren't in the business of blaming member nations that pays dues. Don't want to hurt people's feelings. When WHO praised China for it's quick action on containment and months later announce to the World this is a five alarm fire and everybody should now get in on the action, that should tell you something. When WHO says China hasn't allowed their experts yet into their country to help. That should tell you something.

I would like to ask you how you believe knowing earlier would have changed anything?


Next time a fire breaks out in an apartment building and everybody is asleep except you, wait an hour before calling the fire department if you don't think the outcome will be different from if you took action right away.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 09, 2020, 09:16:27 PM
A lot of words...excuses..

So, you could not find any criticism..

You will find the UN has member states and does criticise members...

'Thank you'..


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2020, 10:20:52 PM

Mongolia reports its first case of coronavirus. They shut down all schools in the country and suspended all local travel in the province the infected person was in. Government officials get the truth from top doctors and scientists. The actions they are taking against this particular virus are extreme and are different than the actions they took against previous viruses. There's enough education on the internet that tells you the truth about this virus's characteristics and behavior but you have to filter out the crap and most of it is crap. If you understand it, you will agree with Bill Gates, who has experience fighting many epidemics, that COVID-19 is the once-in-a-century pathogen we’ve been worried about. It's here and we get front row seats to the show that will make the history books.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/mongolia-confirms-its-first-coronavirus-case-in-french-worker/ar-BB10Y2Vu?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 10, 2020, 01:12:40 AM
Bill Gates is a smart chap, but it doesn't mean we have to agree with his thoughts.

Let's see if China really has peaked and we'll be more certain who'd been panicking....

My old college friend from Rome has a large garden near the centre and is looking forward to getting stuck in.... not too worried, but Marcello on Sardinia is SCARED for elderly members of his family...

One seems to be taking this in her stride...t'other, not so.

They are both glad of the internet...for now..

I asked Jackie, in Rome ( She has a dog) how folks can 'relieve' their dogs needs to pee and pooh...if under quarantine conditions...

That is a permissible excuse to go out..
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 10, 2020, 01:30:43 AM
Your line of thought is perpetuating the hysteria. The media can not let it rest and ignores other news of the world. Worldwide some 94,000 have contracted the virus 3200 have died many of those are elderly and other under lying issues. The contagion of the virus is 2. The contagion of SARS was 4 and for the measles is 18. 55,000 of the 94,000 recovered.

It is okay to assume for a minute that the panic caused by the mainstream media is just that, panic. The tip of the iceberg? Hardly. We'll see more cases of that I had no doubt. There's no epidemic even yet much less a pandemic. What you should be asking yourself is why now? COVID isn't ebola, it isn't even SARS or seasonal influenza. Yet all MSM news outlets gloss over that factoid.

I'm not at all indicating that measures shouldn't be taken to slow and stop the virus. Not at all but you should ask yourself, why this one and why now?

http://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-update-50000-recoveries-global-cases-1490495?fbclid=IwAR2msbFukyVmi55VKAAaPfVmUNiMnzzD0RKAq9XVLtQ9J7TQn-3eObCNZlk (http://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-update-50000-recoveries-global-cases-1490495?fbclid=IwAR2msbFukyVmi55VKAAaPfVmUNiMnzzD0RKAq9XVLtQ9J7TQn-3eObCNZlk)

Saw this today from a guy that is going through it, the first report I have come across about someone who is going through it. Down in thr comments section at the top of those comments is a person who has gone through it who said it was a month long fight. That supports my comment last night that some people are in for a long fight for life on this one and its not something that people necessarily get over with in a few days. It really seems to have knocked this 32 year old from New York for six, he is a non-smoker as well with no underlying health conditions:

http://uk.yahoo.com/news/every-day-getting-worse-coronavirus-182834614.html
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 10, 2020, 02:30:41 AM
Another report showing that you can catch Coronavirus whilst on a plane:

http://uk.yahoo.com/news/british-couple-contract-virus-flight-180805218.html

They then unknowingly spread it around their hotel in Vietnam presumably by touching surfaces around them.

Judging from this report the virus appears highly contagious and being in close proximity to someone with it might unfortunately be all that it takes.

Also appears that seven Britons also caught the virus on the flight just from that one infected passenger so shockingly highly contagious indeed.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 10, 2020, 04:14:09 AM
Another report showing that you can catch Coronavirus whilst on a plane:

http://uk.yahoo.com/news/british-couple-contract-virus-flight-180805218.html


You MAY be able to catch it from a fellow passenger - how does this article PROVE it .. ?


YOU are not a fan of Asiatic women so you'd not have WANTED to be near Ms Nga Nguyễn

(http://www.nguoi-viet.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/VN-Nga-Nguyen-London-fashion-show-AFP-030820.jpg)



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 10, 2020, 06:02:30 AM
Saw this today from a guy that is going through it, the first report I have come across about someone who is going through it. Down in thr comments section at the top of those comments is a person who has gone through it who said it was a month long fight. That supports my comment last night that some people are in for a long fight for life on this one and its not something that people necessarily get over with in a few days. It really seems to have knocked this 32 year old from New York for six, he is a non-smoker as well with no underlying health conditions:

http://uk.yahoo.com/news/every-day-getting-worse-coronavirus-182834614.html

There is so much shit out there now on the virus it's becoming increasingly difficult to separate the wheat from the chafe. Is it a serious issue? Yes, no doubt but the media blitz appears to be causing a panic by design. Why? Then there are those of you who are taking everything they hear as fact when it is not. Little to nothing in the media is designed or reported to help you. It's motive appears to drive your panic into full blown hysteria. Why? Don't be led like sheep to slaughter

This one appears to be tapering off. For the most of us this one isn't much to worry about. The next one we likely won't be so lucky

http://nypost.com/2020/03/08/coronavirus-going-to-hit-its-peak-and-start-falling-sooner-than-you-think/ (http://nypost.com/2020/03/08/coronavirus-going-to-hit-its-peak-and-start-falling-sooner-than-you-think/)

http://www.dailywire.com/news/dr-drew-on-coronavirus-media-hurting-people-need-to-be-held-accountable-for-causing-panic?itm_source=parsely-api%3Futm_content%3Dnews&utm_campaign=daily_shapiro&utm_medium=email&utm_source=housefile&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8LbTMJ0aUEdu7Y2QfZBoeXdvXJGrNS4L3YQmpIOnL_WDKucy1iVkvP6xYoaP-DtB4wLP0Iyun_BAk5h9Ln-8k_lK-bsA&_hsmi=84493282 (http://www.dailywire.com/news/dr-drew-on-coronavirus-media-hurting-people-need-to-be-held-accountable-for-causing-panic?itm_source=parsely-api%3Futm_content%3Dnews&utm_campaign=daily_shapiro&utm_medium=email&utm_source=housefile&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8LbTMJ0aUEdu7Y2QfZBoeXdvXJGrNS4L3YQmpIOnL_WDKucy1iVkvP6xYoaP-DtB4wLP0Iyun_BAk5h9Ln-8k_lK-bsA&_hsmi=84493282)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 10, 2020, 06:31:10 AM
someone should be responsible for administering "bitch slaps" to Trumpists for when they become hysterical about dear leader...
SLAP!

Caution! Numbers!!!  requires thinking

3-8-20   7:57 PM      538 cases
3-9-20   7:40 pm      624 cases

see the total and rate of progression....
now look these numbers up on the Chinese and Italian graphs of numbers
and see where they correlate

also, once we start getting test kits instead of promises of them being there real soon now
watch the numbers blow up....

and then watch them REALLY blow up this flu season

yup, the odds of a specific individual getting the illness "this year" is low....
but a social financial meltdown is VERY HIGH!

this election will be about Trump's handling of the the virus vrs whatever BS Gulianai throws out about Biden's stuttering and Hillary's emails
and not much Trumpists can do about it, except go quietly into the night next year

the good news about the virus for Trumpists, is this...
after Trump's defeat at the hands of Marxist Leninist Democrats
you WON'T have to drink the Kool-Aid....
nope, the virus will relieve you of that burden
cuz, it's gonna drink you
and it's just sittin there lickin its tiny little lips
quivering with anticipation of meeting ya'll later this year

you all made your bed when you voted for dear leader
so when you start to feel bad
you can lay down in this bed
and have a little nap
sweet dreams
farewell
and in your final breath, exclaim "what about Hillary's emails... cough...cough..."
before embracing eternity

may gawd bless you, gesundheit, Amen
you will be in our prayers that we usually recite after a school shooting
but this prayer is for all you Trump voters....
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 10, 2020, 06:52:59 AM
someone should be responsible for administering "bitch slaps" to Trumpists....
for when they become hysterical about dear leader...
SLAP!

Caution! Numbers!!!  requires thinking

3-8-20   7:57 PM      538 cases
3-9-20   7:40 pm      624 cases

see the total and rate of progression....
now look these numbers up on the Chinese and Italian graphs of numbers
and see where they correlate

also, once we start getting test kits instead of promises of them being there real soon now
watch the numbers blow up....

and then watch them REALLY blow up this flu season

yup, the odds of a specific individual getting the illness "this year" is low....
but a social financial meltdown is VERY HIGH!

this election will be about Trump's handling of the the virus vrs whatever BS Gulianai throws out about Biden and Hillary's emails
and not much Trumpists can do about it, except go quietly into the night next year

the good news about the virus for Trumpists, is this...
after Trump's defeat at the hands of Marxist Leninist Democrats
you WON'T have to drink the Kool-Aid....
nope, the virus will relieve you of that burden
cuz, it's gonna drink you
and it's just sittin there lickin its tiny little lips
quivering with anticipation of meeting ya'll later this year

I remember when you use to actually post well reasoned information. It was helpful and appreciated by most who read it.  How the mighty has fallen. Now, there's nothing more than useless dribble that develops in the dark recesses of your marijuana fogged mind wrapped in abscess of your over-inflated self worth surrounded by the misery that is you.

You've sucked into the panic lock, stock and barrel. You, as most mental midgets blame Trump. Your need to point fingers at Trump is as over whelming as your need to masturbate in the open streets when your little willy pokes out. You're pathetic Krim. Sober up, go run a few laps and put the crack pipe down. We miss you
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 10, 2020, 07:13:25 AM
ok... here is a true fact

I have not masturbated in over 20 years....
20 years...that's a gawd damned long time...
hand jobs...yes, I've had plenty!!!
but I've never gone solo in 20 years....

so.......
your insult doesn't work on me, sorry, I know you spent a lot of time on it, but a wasted effort...

look, you're frightened and confused, and I can see you came from an impoverished background with a matching dysfunctional family and childhood
and this has made you "butthurt", not sure if I'm using your vocabulary correctly, this is just my feeble attempt to speak your "jive"
which consists primarily of phallic and anal references
kinda like sayin "wussup my n^gger" to black folks

it must be difficult for you writing in a language where the lexicon consists mainly of synonyms of anus, and penis, masturbation, etc...
but this gives me a glimpse inside your mind...
it's fascinating to observe
because it tells me the kind of environment you lived and worked in

look behind you sir,
the sight you see, is Rome burning....
and YOU are the fiddle the emperor is playing...

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 10, 2020, 07:40:00 AM
Not hearing too much today about the latest numbers in the USA.   My daughter went out to get toilet paper yesterday, and all 4 stores didn't have any!  Not only did we not get to 'stock up' but we are actually almost out!  I'm considering selling some stuff and accepting toilet paper instead of dollars as payment.  :) 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 10, 2020, 09:17:53 AM
ok... here is a true fact

I have not masturbated in over 20 years....
20 years...that's a gawd damned long time...
hand jobs...yes, I've had plenty!!!
but I've never gone solo in 20 years....

so.......
your insult doesn't work on me, sorry, I know you spent a lot of time on it, but a wasted effort...

look, you're frightened and confused, and I can see you came from an impoverished background with a matching dysfunctional family and childhood
and this has made you "butthurt", not sure if I'm using your vocabulary correctly, this is just my feeble attempt to speak your "jive"
which consists primarily of phallic and anal references
kinda like sayin "wussup my n^gger" to black folks

it must be difficult for you writing in a language where the lexicon consists mainly of synonyms of anus, and penis, masturbation, etc...
but this gives me a glimpse inside your mind...
it's fascinating to observe
because it tells me the kind of environment you liveed and worked in

look behind you sir,
the sight you see, is Rome burning....
and YOU are the fiddle the emperor is playing...
a sad tune....

I spent no more time on my reply to you than typing it. You really don't require any thought krim. I know that disappoints you. Your innermost thoughts are on constant display for all to see. Makes me no difference how you medicate to get through the day. Your excuses carry no weight. You're not the only soul to see the brutal inhumanity of life. Whatever gets you through your day is fine by me. I've made no attempt to insult you. I'm just holding up the mirror for you to see. You've lost yourself. I hate to witness your spiral. You are correct in that Rome is burning. That's probably the only statement you've made in months with any validity
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 10, 2020, 09:31:53 AM
Krimster,

have you noticed how certain folk spend their time telling us how 'uninteresting' we are?  :popcorn:

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 10, 2020, 10:12:09 AM
Well Italy is essentially under 'martial law' until a solution is found. Some reckon it's economy could contract by at least 3 percent (maybe more) that is huge and depending on how this plays out could mean the UK becomes Europe's second biggest economy.

It might be said that this virus is nature's way of balancing out the imbalance on the planet of the overpopulation of us humans. If if goes from hundreds of deaths to thousands and possibly millions it's not going to be pretty for us, it could be anyone of us that doesn't make it. I guess at least we're not in our teens and have lived a lot of our lives already. Still the preparation continues in the supermarkets today, young & old buying up the essentials.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 10, 2020, 10:18:48 AM
sir, your assumption about the amount of time I spent in the composition and typing of my previous post is absolutely NOT AT ALL accurate!
in reality, I spent much less time than you did in creating that post!
WHY?
because I'm a Machine Learning Expert, and I have a TensorFlow 2.0 LSTM voice recognition system of my own design
trained specifically on my voice to do speech recognition and type this in real time....
this system is far better than the Nuance Dragon Voice Recognition and Dictation System...
so based on your argument that the idiot is the one who spent the largest amount of time composing and typing their post
well sir, that would be YOU then...

so...
now who has the bigger penis, huh?
that would obviously be ME MFer!!!
now who's "butthurt"? (sorry, is it one word or two, computer says two...)

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 10, 2020, 10:18:59 AM
Not hearing too much today about the latest numbers in the USA.   My daughter went out to get toilet paper yesterday, and all 4 stores didn't have any!  Not only did we not get to 'stock up' but we are actually almost out!  I'm considering selling some stuff and accepting toilet paper instead of dollars as payment.  :) 

Fathertime!

Same in the UK, my mother was able to get hold of a few last rolls of toilet paper in the morning, I visited two large supermarkets in the afternoon and both were completely sold out of toilet paper. A lot of kitchen roll had gone too, I'm thinking a lot of idiots bought kitchen roll hoping to use it instead of toilet paper without realising that it will just block up your toilet real quickly. My mother unfortunately is all too keen to move to the post WWII solution of using cut up newspaper instead :(

Fortunately I have stocked up a big supply of toilet paper that should last for months, maybe even a year. Sorry to hear you were a bit behind the curve on this one Fathertime.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 10, 2020, 10:26:31 AM
Trench,

It's not martial law.  It's called being prudent, limiting time outside the home to necessities for a couple of weeks.  Wife went shopping this morning, stores allowing a limited number of folks in the store at one time to allow folks to keep some distance, no shortages.

It's also not 'until a solution is found'.  It is until the situation normalizes a bit and to keep from overburdening medical resources allowing those unfortunate enough to get it to be treated with the best possible care.  It won't halt the spread entirely, but hopefully, slow it down enough to keep things from getting too far out of hand.

Folks are adjusting their daily routines.  Some may grumble a bit, others may enjoy being together a bit more.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 10, 2020, 10:28:38 AM
someone should be responsible for administering "bitch slaps" to Trumpists for when they become hysterical about dear leader...
SLAP!


People may see Trump as a hero during these trying times and we may need to change the rules and vote him in for a third term since solid, stable leadership is needed to defeat the mighty coronavirus.

My daughter went out to get toilet paper yesterday, and all 4 stores didn't have any!  Not only did we not get to 'stock up' but we are actually almost out!  I'm considering selling some stuff and accepting toilet paper instead of dollars as payment.  :) 


The reason I am not waiting in long lines and panicking is because after I read about the characteristics of the virus over a month ago, I didn't trust China's numbers and what media and governments were saying and went out and did all my shopping prior. I got a case of 48 rolls of toilet paper at home. Tell your daughter I'm selling them for $100 a roll.

The good news is in stressful times when food is scarce, we won't need toilet paper. Anybody seen that based on a true story movie Alive where the people in the plane crash was stuck on the mountain for over two months? They took one crap in that whole time they were up there and it was hard and dry. You will be amazed how fast the body will adapt during a time of stress to maintain 100% of the nutrients in the food you eat instead of crapping it away. When I was in the Army and did some non stop stressful war games playing in the desert of California and got little sleep, I crapped once during the two weeks of the war games. That never happened to me before but made me realize how fast my body went into survival mode for the situation I was in.

There's no reason to panic. We need to keep working knowing a certain amount of humans will be sacrificed for every wave of the virus that comes in. In regions or nations that are hit hard, they will endure hardships until they can control the spread but keep in mind, without a vaccine or getting eliminated off the face of the earth, the virus will be back again so we should get used to periodic quarantining for the rest of our lives. The little people like ourselves can't stop the virus but we can do our part to prevent spread. Governments will determine when and how quarantines need to happen.

If if goes from hundreds of deaths to thousands and possibly millions it's not going to be pretty for us, it could be anyone of us that doesn't make it. I guess at least we're not in our teens and have lived a lot of our lives already. Still the preparation continues in the supermarkets today, young & old buying up the essentials.


I have good news and bad news for you Trench. In an early study, China said two thirds of their recorded deaths were men. That is the bad news for you. The good new is if you survive, eventually there may be two women for every man on earth.

http://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-02-04-20/h_105a9b1b3bd680a0533016b0e7f2a9ef

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 10, 2020, 10:45:58 AM
"eventually there may be two women for every man on earth"


"two girls for every boy."
what "surf city for real"
damn, who knew the apocalypse was gonna be this cool, not this guy!
hahaha

AND YOU GUYS AREN'T HIGH?????
seriously WTF???????


 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 10, 2020, 10:57:42 AM
Just read an article about Germany, why the numbers are so low, especially the mortality rate which is a fraction of what it is in Italy.

Basically boils down to testing or lack thereof.  Italy, for example, is not only testing more, but also doing tests for folks that have died.  Germany is not doing so.

Spain also started doing testing of folks that died and confirmed a lot of suspected flu cases were Covid instead.

Countries that do more testing will have higher numbers of infections and a more accurate picture of what's really going on.

Don't let low numbers in your country deceive you.  Be prudent, especially if you are in the higher-risk category or you have contact with someone who is.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 10, 2020, 11:26:38 AM
Don't let low numbers in your country deceive you.  Be prudent, especially if you are in the higher-risk category or you have contact with someone who is.

I'm glad you "get it" BC and know that you need to act accordingly to give yourself and your family the best chance to remain virus free. Stupid and ignorant people are more likely to die. It's our government's job to prevent panic since panic can do more damage than the virus. Even the media isn't stating how dangerous this virus is and their low mortality rates are based on what government organizations are telling them to report.

Italy has now updated their numbers and report 631 people have died to 724 recoveries. The sample pool in Italy is large enough to have merit and Italy is telling a different story of what China is telling pertaining to the ratio of dead to those who beat the virus.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 10, 2020, 11:48:56 AM
yes, here in the USA we have barely done any testing only promises of testing real soon now...
once this starts, the numbers will explode
it implies there is a vastly larger pool of locally infected people
that is currently in the USA growing by about 20% per day

the question is, how much will this slow down, between now and the start of flu season?
and how fast this will grow in November and December
if this hits exponential then in a day it'll double to an amount that took months to obtain
then double again the next day
then again
then again


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 10, 2020, 12:00:16 PM
Same in the UK, my mother was able to get hold of a few last rolls of toilet paper in the morning, I visited two large supermarkets in the afternoon and both were completely sold out of toilet paper. A lot of kitchen roll had gone too, I'm thinking a lot of idiots bought kitchen roll hoping to use it instead of toilet paper without realising that it will just block up your toilet real quickly. My mother unfortunately is all too keen to move to the post WWII solution of using cut up newspaper instead :(

Fortunately I have stocked up a big supply of toilet paper that should last for months, maybe even a year. Sorry to hear you were a bit behind the curve on this one Fathertime.
Hehe, glad to hear you are all stocked up, turns out if I need any TP billyb will sell for $100 a roll so I'm ok. 

I decided to take a few moments and go to a little supermarket called Aldi this morning with wife.   Believe it or not,  I found toilet paper. it was a 12 pack with a limit of 2 per person.  I bought only one. 
Interestingly, we needed little bottled waters for our son at school, there was a pallet left, the employee was wheeling toward the back of the supermarket warehouse, but let me take one.  Turns out she took that and another pallet of big bottles of water.  I asked where is that going? She said, The staff break room because they are almost  out.   That seemed like  lot of water for a staff breakroom.   Interesting.     

Overall the supermarket was fairly well stocked, aside from the water, the other shoppers didn't appear to be panic stricken.  Almost seemed like a normal day aside from the TP limitations and the water being carted away. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 10, 2020, 12:19:24 PM
how many rednecks who voted for Trump, are gonna get laid off in the depression?
the answer my friend, is blowin in the wind, the answer is blowin in the wind

and how many rednecks who lose their jobs, are gonna lose their health insurance to?
the answer my friend, is blowin in the wind, the answer is blowin in the wind

and how many of those uninsured, will contract and die of covid-19?
the answer my friend, is... what? that many? are you freaking serious?

Peace Man
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 10, 2020, 12:19:55 PM
Another report showing that you can catch Coronavirus whilst on a plane:

http://uk.yahoo.com/news/british-couple-contract-virus-flight-180805218.html

Another piece of Trench scaremongering busted?..


BBC News - Coronavirus: What's the risk of flying or taking the train?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51736185

 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51736185)

It's a common belief that you are more likely to become ill on an aeroplane, because you're breathing "stale" air.

  In fact, the air on a plane may well be better quality than in the average office (and almost certainly better than a train or a bus).

There are more people per square foot on a busy plane, which can increase the risk, but the air is also being changed at a faster rate.

Professor Quingyan Chen at Purdue University, who studies air quality in different passenger vehicles, estimates that the air on a plane is completely replaced every 2-3 minutes, compared with every 10-12 minutes in an air-conditioned building.

The filter sucks in fresh air from outside and mixes it with the air already in the cabin, meaning that at any one time half the air is fresh and half is not. Many ordinary air-conditioning systems merely re-circulate the same air to save energy.

So, our Trench is more at risk during his commute.

BTW: I ordered a pack of 24 Toilet rolls with our usual shop..

No problem.... We were down to 4 and only Spivs and greedy folk are stupid enough to buy more..





Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 10, 2020, 12:29:13 PM
if t'were merely a function of air flow, I'd tend to agree...
but it may not be...
it may be based more on physical proximity to an infected person
than the flow of air around them

and if an infected person is actively "shedding" virus or not

so, Italia has a 1 week voluntary self-quarantine...
hmmm...
how long before it ain't so "voluntary"

what happens when every freakin time you get on a plane
you have to prove you're not sick
and every freakin time you get off a plane
you have to prove you're not sick

how many freakin times will you get on a plane
assuming you can get on one


PS, Russians are NOT paying me to write this!!
and they certainly wouldn't pay me based on the number of replies I get to my posts
nor the number of readers in threads that I post to

but yeah, OK, OK I shorted United when it was at 87 a share, so what?
it's called capitalism, if you don't like it vote for Bernie!



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 10, 2020, 12:46:54 PM
http://tinyurl.com/w58hga6

I watched the above interview and found it entirely credible.   Better than people running around pulling out their hair.   (I don't have a ton of hair to pull out, so it is relative.)

Watch the interview than comment on it.   I found it to be a breath of uninfected air.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 10, 2020, 12:53:52 PM
yes, here in the USA we have barely done any testing only promises of testing real soon now...


Testing is happening right now in the most infected county in America. I know a guy who knows a woman that got tested and results back quickly. It was concluded she had an upper respiratory infection.

Italy has 631 dead. Based on how many are dead in King County and it's much smaller population, if I multiply the population to equal Italy's population, we'd have 632 dead right now.


BBC News - Coronavirus: What's the risk of flying or taking the train?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51736185

 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51736185)


Article probably paid for by public and private transportation. The first sentence is "It's not yet known exactly how coronavirus spreads" then the journalists tries to present experts that tell us air on a plane is cleaner than your living room. Lol
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 10, 2020, 01:07:44 PM
The Journalist is quoting someone better qualified than you or I, Silly BillyB

An article for 'proud', selfish and unthinking hoarders...

http://tinyurl.com/t9dvbje
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 10, 2020, 01:27:04 PM
The Journalist is quoting someone better qualified than you or I, Silly BillyB


The journalist is manipulative. If an expert tells me the air on an airplane is cleaner than the air in my living room, I believe them 100%. But if I was told a person with an infectious disease is on the plane, I'd choose to stay home and breathe living room air and I'll offer you my seat on the plane since you're not concerned about getting infected.

One out of every 6000 Italians have the virus. Flights there are being cancelled but by all means, call up the airline industry and show them the article you're showing us to prove there's no risk.

http://tinyurl.com/ss7aubc
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 10, 2020, 01:29:13 PM

I have good news and bad news for you Trench. In an early study, China said two thirds of their recorded deaths were men. That is the bad news for you. The good new is if you survive, eventually there may be two women for every man on earth.



Yep I have seen those figures too, I think Italy has similar figures.

If I get through this I won't at all mind being raped by a group of hot chicks, the moment a fat girl tries it on I promise you I'll go squealing to 'Metoo' as fast as my legs if they are still working can carry me!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 10, 2020, 01:41:51 PM
Another piece of Trench scaremongering busted?..


BBC News - Coronavirus: What's the risk of flying or taking the train?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51736185

 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51736185)

It's a common belief that you are more likely to become ill on an aeroplane, because you're breathing "stale" air.

  In fact, the air on a plane may well be better quality than in the average office (and almost certainly better than a train or a bus).

There are more people per square foot on a busy plane, which can increase the risk, but the air is also being changed at a faster rate.

Professor Quingyan Chen at Purdue University, who studies air quality in different passenger vehicles, estimates that the air on a plane is completely replaced every 2-3 minutes, compared with every 10-12 minutes in an air-conditioned building.

The filter sucks in fresh air from outside and mixes it with the air already in the cabin, meaning that at any one time half the air is fresh and half is not. Many ordinary air-conditioning systems merely re-circulate the same air to save energy.

So, our Trench is more at risk during his commute.

BTW: I ordered a pack of 24 Toilet rolls with our usual shop..

No problem.... We were down to 4 and only Spivs and greedy folk are stupid enough to buy more..

Ah, yet more advice from the 'experts' we've seen how much stock to place in their advice before now haven't we Mobers ;)

An expert was on the BBC this evening telling viewers 'food prepared by someone else who may have the virus is safe, there is no evidence to suggest you can get the virus by eating food prepared by someone with the virus, though there have been no conclusive tests on this' - a shorter response would be for her to say, 'I don't know so I won't try and suggest it is ok'. Though of course the Restaurant trade is one area they won't want to collapse as well, better stupid people catch it and risk catching it than that happen. Myself I decided to go out last week and eat my last KFC and McDonald's double cheeseburger until this virus is over, and last eat out at any restaurant in fact. I don't eat out much any way or have much fast food but now hat will be the last for quite some time.

All these people that own restaurants I pity for them, but their'll be just another casualty of this virus, economically speaking.

I believe in the old, 'be prepared' adage, it is the intelligent thing to do, that is why I have over 60 toilet rolls stored up Mobers :))
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 10, 2020, 03:11:05 PM
misogyny will become popular once more!
why?
because we can get away with it now...

feminism is gonna be over REAL FAST fellas
cuz next year
the wimmin are all gonna want big strong men to protect them...
not little wimpy guys who are PC and PW'd

and I am just too damn sexy for my own good
this is really gonna cause me some problems...

the best solution, is to get the prettiest woman you can find,  to hang on your arm, and stare at you adoringly
and she'll keep the lesser ones away from you...
OTOH, if another does challenge her and replace her
you're the benefactor as well...

just live for today fellas

we're all gonna have some tough choices to make
my family and I are probably going to separate this year and live in different countries....
and I know that in the near future, it will be very difficult for us to ever see each other again
and that there is a chance,
that we may not...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 10, 2020, 03:40:41 PM
the toast you smell burning in the oven is called civilization...
remember it while you still can
you guys in denial are gonna REALLY be surprised SOON!!!!
watch what happens when the banks run out of cash!!!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 10, 2020, 03:52:41 PM
Just heard....today it showed up in N Texas
Coronavirus in Texas (http://www.texastribune.org/series/coronavirus-texas-cases-san-antonio/)
Quote
Five new Texas coronavirus cases include Collin County child and a Montgomery County man whose travel is being investigatedThe 3-year-old is among the youngest patients in the U.S. to have tested positive for COVID-19, the disease caused by the new coronavirus. Montgomery County officials declined to comment on whether a patient there was exposed during travel.
 
http://www.texastribune.org/2020/03/10/frisco-texas-man-spreads-coronavirus-wife-and-child/
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 10, 2020, 04:10:39 PM
I heard some law firms in Washington have come down with Corona Virus.   They were investigating all of the buried indictments of Trump when they contracted the disease.   I know its not public news yet.   But I heard it because my father once worked there.

Give us all a break, Krimster.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 10, 2020, 04:18:27 PM
...I spent much less time than you did in creating that post!
WHY?
because I'm a Machine Learning Expert, and I have a TensorFlow 2.0 LSTM voice recognition system of my own design...



Now I understand why you post so much nonsense.  Freewriting from an emotionally driven brain in panic mode.   

Stream of consciousness is complex and can be engrossing.   Ulysses is difficult to read yet enjoyable.  James Joyce you ain't.    And it hurts when you venture into the field of science to rationalize your wacky thoughts.

My recommendation:  Your TensoFlow needs a dose or two of lomotil, plus probiotics for life.     
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 10, 2020, 04:28:13 PM
Why did we need another thread on this stuff anyway?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 10, 2020, 04:33:14 PM
To reveal the elevated anxiety of some of our members. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 10, 2020, 05:22:39 PM
Why did we need another thread on this stuff anyway?

Because Mobe wanted to talk instead about the far less pressing issue of migrants trying to get from Turkey to Greece rather than focus on the one sole issue on most peoples minds.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 10, 2020, 05:29:07 PM
Why did we need another thread on this stuff anyway?

"You can never get enough coronavirus" COVID-19 once said. I'm glad Trench started this. His question about how we are preparing and how's it affecting members here are good ones. Since it showed up in N Texas, we'll be needing your daily reports. You stocked up on toilet paper?

Twice I said in Gator's virus thread it should be moved to the Odds and Ends section where more people will read it. It should've gotten more exposure due to the seriousness of the developing situation. Oh well, less people know about the upcoming danger, more toilet paper for me.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: IvanM07 on March 10, 2020, 05:41:09 PM
They Declared a State of Emergency here in NC. Mostly just for those Federal Dollars to be available. There were 2 separate cases in Raleigh and Wake County, Yesterday I read an SC man came through Charlotte Airport from Italy and confirmed he had it the next day. They've been giving updates in work email every few days. Probably at the end of the week or start of next week they'll have us working from home. Guess I'll drive back to Texas to spend a few weeks with my family so I can't complain.

As for preparing, A month ago we bought 18 Rolls of TP and another 12 of Brawny paper towels, but that was more due to being out of TP and Paper towels. I think the last rolls lasted almost a year or so. The paper towels on the other hand with having a Doberman still training, about 2 Months.

We bought a few cases of Food, mostly canned food/fruit, Peanut Butter, Jerky, stuff like that. I thought we were good but he started freaking out with the news and bought 6 cases of new Military MRE's, the Expiration is 9.5 years from now.  :ROFL:

We were going to go Shooting at the Range this weekend and bought some plinking ammo, regular 5.56 55gr FMJ, and they were almost out of brass, but tons of Steel at Academy so I guess people are stocking up on that too.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 10, 2020, 06:01:13 PM
the toast you smell burning in the oven is called civilization...
remember it while you still can
you guys in denial are gonna REALLY be surprised SOON!!!!
watch what happens when the banks run out of cash!!!

Indeed Krim, there is no doubt a race against time afoot. Some solution such as a vaccine or method or controlling the spread of the virus successfully needs to be found before societal breakdown occurs country by country.

2020 for me started of being on a very different thread for me than previous years for many reasons. For other members too perhaps. Then Caronavirus pops up to turn matters on their head even more. Who would have thought we would be even talking about this stuff at the start of a new decade, it sereal to say the least.

The Caronavirus turns most peoples lives upside down whether we like it or not. It makes visiting and dating FSW very difficult and all other plans we might have made or have decided upon.

Every morning I wake up and it dawns on me the terrible situation we are in that is unfolding before our very eyes. In fairness other periods of time have had there own crises. Think the Cuban missile crisis & the nuclear threat, the black death plague, millions killed in WWII, being stuck in the trenches in misery in WWI, etc. The lives lost so far pale in comparison to all of that but it could all get worse soon.

Scientists reckon they could have a vaccine within a year , but will many societies hold together even that long? I myself work in a workplace where I am near others, not really near and not loads of people but people are fairly near me. If/when the virus spreads how long do I go before I call it quits, call in sick, etc? How long until do most people do this thereby causing a collapse in society & a self fulfilling prophecy?

Will people panic and take money out in cash risking instability in the banking sector that governments may not be able to cover? Or will they leave money in the banks rather than risk handling potentially dirty money? Will money continue to be of value or valueless globally?

These are many questions that may start to enter people's minds as time wears on. Scientists & society are in a race against time to find a solution to the virus.

Myself I think we need an upheaval in the way we go about life today. All the mechanisms exist to change to a different model, we just need to have the boldness to act on it. We need to bring forward modes of working and living that we were gradually moving towards and bring them into reality today much sooner than would have been the case.

We need to automate our grocery supplies like Amazon automates it warehouse products. We need to recognise where formal touching each other in daily interaction is taking place and work to eliminate it. Instead of offering drinks to guests and risk germs being past back and forth we should tell guests to help themselves to a drink and get it themself, etc.

I personally think that we have become too stuck in our ways to deal with these old notions and conventions. It may only be a matter of time before society as we know it falls apart. Once workers start quoting the workplace in favour of their own safety a trickle may become an unstoppable flood and a permanent loss of productivity that is irreversible and leads to the collapse of societies.

How people cope and manage if this occurs is another matter. Those that have passed away so far may have been spared enduring a different reality to what we have known. To some extent society has been very predictable and perhaps stiffeling in the drawn out boundaries it imposes in its citizens. We may come to wish for then or be glad to see untethered possiblities & freedom in a chaotic world. We will just have to wait and see how far this virus threat pushes society until it becomes too much and then only be able to be observers to what unfolds perhaps.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 10, 2020, 06:13:07 PM
NO!!! listen to me!!!!

LOOK!!!

Date       Total Infected       New Cases
3-8-20    538                     103    
3-9-20    624                     83
3-10-20  975                     271

this means that less than a week from now, we will be where Italy is right now...
at that point, most public schools and universities will begin stopping in person classes....
and there will be some level of quarantine in most places....
and then week by week more and more dominoes are gonna fall...

just a god damned week from now, do the math yourself
look at those numbers do the math yourselves, god damn it!

this is happening because WE WEREN'T TESTING!!!
a few days ago CDC stopped counting the tests it was doing and updating on its website
because the number wasn't changing, and when people asked why, they just took the number down
because they weren't testing in volume until today
and now we're gonna find out that there is huge number of infected people, much more than we thought
and growing FAST!

it's all gonna CRASH baby!!!
all of it!


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 10, 2020, 06:18:18 PM
We need to recognise where formal touching each other in daily interaction is taking place and work to eliminate it. Instead of offering drinks to guests and risk germs being past back and forth we should tell guests to help themselves to a drink and get it themself, etc.


Don't worry Trench, they are already working on a solution that will make even sex touch free. I saw the future in a movie where a young horny Sandra Bullock asks Sylvester Stallone to have sex. Warning, all scenes will be appropriate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k80UQWWUIYs
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 10, 2020, 06:18:40 PM

We were going to go Shooting at the Range this weekend and bought some plinking ammo, regular 5.56 55gr FMJ, and they were almost out of brass, but tons of Steel at Academy so I guess people are stocking up on that too.

The US is different to the UK, here we are not generally allowed firearms, so the Military & the Police hold complete monopoly over us. That said would they bring about a coup d'etat if matters went on long enough, would they remain a cohesive whole, etc?

In the US citizens can bear arms but the greater power still lies in primarily the Military and secondly the Police, one or both are likely to have access to greater firepower over a sustained period and of course numbers.

I still say I talk is in a state of virtual martial law despite comments by other earlier posters. Perhaps to stop the potential for looting and chaos on the streets.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: IvanM07 on March 10, 2020, 06:27:24 PM
The US is different to the UK, here we are not generally allowed firearms, so the Military & the Police hold complete monopoly over us. That said would they bring about a coup d'etat if matters went on long enough, would they remain a cohesive whole, etc?

In the US citizens can bear arms but the greater power still lies in primarily the Military and secondly the Police, one or both are likely to have access to greater firepower over a sustained period and of course numbers.

I still say I talk is in a state of virtual martial law despite comments by other earlier posters. Perhaps to stop the potential for looting and chaos on the streets.

The Military and Police certainly have the upper hand, but you can see the effect that just standing up has here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff

I think the guy was wrong but a militia stared down the Feds and they backed down. One on One though, they definitely could overrun anything (most) any civilian has. Not that I think this is even close to that happening.

If anything gets that bad that the people want to revolt against police even the Police and Military would be fragmented I would think, with varying factions for and against the people vs what is best for them.

The more likely scenario though is First Responders and Military are overwhelmed. In the 90s there were the LA Riots. The worst hit regions were looted, burned, and mugged. However I remember watching a documentary showing Koreatown didn't. Why?

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/koreatown-twenty-six-years-ago-the-guns-of-the-l-a-riots/

The shopkeeps banded together and they protected what was theirs, and more power to them as far as I'm concerned. That's what I really think more people are buying ammo for. In case someone tries to mug or loot their home or vehicle.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 10, 2020, 06:28:56 PM
NO!!! listen to me!!!!

LOOK!!!

Date       Total Infected       New Cases
3-8-20    538                     103    
3-9-20    624                     83
3-10-20  975                     271

this means that less than a week from now, we will be where Italy is right now...
at that point, most public schools and universities will begin stopping in person classes....
and there will be some level of quarantine in most places....
and then week by week more and more dominoes are gonna fall...

just a god damned week from now, do the math yourself
look at those numbers do the math yourselves, god damn it!

this is happening because WE WEREN'T TESTING!!!
a few days ago CDC stopped counting the tests it was doing and updating on its website
because the number wasn't changing, and when people asked why, they just took the number down
because they weren't testing in volume until today
and now we're gonna find out that there is huge number of infected people, much more than we thought
and growing FAST!

I think you're probably right Krim, here we are all carrying on like its daily life as usual but its all likely a charade. I fear too that we are talking 1-2 weeks and we will be where Italy is. Italy is in a depressing situation. We see it on the news. One woman in northern Italy said that all she hears all day is the sound of Ambulance sirens, that's it! :( That's the grim reality.

I'm not sure if we are keeping it in check at all here in the UK, we might be buying ourselves a few extra days, maybe a week or so but I think the Italy scenario is inevitable. How long they can maintain control in such a situation is unclear. The Soviet Union lasted a long time using a controlled state system. We will just have to keep looking at Italy as at least we have a view to the likely future for ourselves that way. For Italians they are living it at the forefront of it all.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: IvanM07 on March 10, 2020, 06:31:20 PM
NO!!! listen to me!!!!

LOOK!!!

Date       Total Infected       New Cases
3-8-20    538                     103    
3-9-20    624                     83
3-10-20  975                     271

this means that less than a week from now, we will be where Italy is right now...
at that point, most public schools and universities will begin stopping in person classes....
and there will be some level of quarantine in most places....
and then week by week more and more dominoes are gonna fall...

just a god damned week from now, do the math yourself
look at those numbers do the math yourselves, god damn it!

Fast forward a few weeks, do we get to the point of society where Road Warrior is the new norm? Because if it is....I'm all for it!

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a22PDu0+slo+uZ+9HVWnFaDyMFgex0VFySSYA9BA2Rj/YPzq+EqVnFRtdFK5X2bZ5tpV54tKhZqCCkU/cKaLY9a9Kj0ogJFYVR691IWNPcuTkKQvu7YEfr9DV0jHFZ3V/C2o1t5zdveFYRwLa7NzN5QSwyBBPcz3ECM0hG3sSTozWhuv4dy55VlIO5ZxGYhwfupigegCOR4jhCpyWDQy5zgHI4jvj3rqGs+ESLItvr7gsLkqLVpSR/zRM/esv0D4TN++GFu5+yyfO5CsyxgjAnMcCKsmlZuXLYPtWPEULp7b3bjrC3HhbSNtKswEzPJAYAjyntJluaTaNrPvvIIbYpC+Ybl5wTBHHqPlQ7XNc0t+6lpmUK7KQDyFYgTHt3qw+puXQWXduAyWIztmQRAlc/iEEYk8TmrQ107Mf1nUb2Pl2mcj39aZpdR4dpnH/qM2xD/AAgAFm+eVA+bHkCiXUkS9k/5d3vPDH3+vf70IuWigTcM+ZoI9SF/+NehjcXFI8vPGSm5X+ZWKsckEk/OST+tGeldDli2oPh2kVnufxbUZV2/8zMwUDmfTkCmJZvMfSaM/FFwsyjYigNcICCAASMRPFNOTtR+ycMaqUvqgf1fqJv3WuFQoJwo4UDAH0FWOnKxtNH7rYPeDEgfX9aFxW56JZB0oRVk+GXJmNuCxkGd3sRFTzyWOCSRb00XkyNthH/DXVlluac52+dfkTDD7kH/AHGts+l4rlXwt1X9k1SufwnyXP8AkYiW+hAP0967Q6j1rzvUxqd/Z24pfGvoq/s2KTYqcqe01T1mjeJiucqmeG4AY3VIbqDj9aHppH9KsJooyTQDouC8tMuXvQV7ZIGOaku2pFYAOu3jUIu5qwbQBkmozsB96wwvFJxNPCMe1ODCRC1bRzMRWNYP8L1ppSrmoQ+tVivvWDYzbSp2P7NKsYJTXof2p+1fWvJWnEPN5qydYLdssxiKhDiOKDfG4PgHPNFAq3RB1TXNrCunSQhCvdb0Q8KPdu31Paj9rVhFCAQqgAAcADAFBvgKwH0u/wDeZiGPfyQoH/SB9zWnsdNU/iotO6BKSRyf4laNbcwMkYIwQ6if15q3o9J5lEAiN4Aw7AucqSY3RE4AIMf6iZ+O+nWhq9OVwHUhs/wEEn28pP8A015pbdu44tOPDDQ1mBEbfwqrzyBAjvFO3pDp2rMb8T9KIO63LAlQoiCd0+WPXykH0IrKdTuA3NqHcqAIp7Nt5b5M24j2IrrPXLDA+YwSDb3EESzbwhAAw24J7c45Ncu05RQMSRkAxBJPJ9f6Cu308/icXqIcpd0UrVmGWcyR8snmi/xHr/G8MNaCXEkFlYwwxypGDInB7/Kq9+6zXFQnlhuP98Yqx17R+HdFrcXKrJMRIeXUxJjyFSROOJNVu2myXFJOKBiqsccVrfh2wAbml1DOhRiCFEztHEd+Ofl60A6bp1uXbdtmVFZ1DOxhVUnJJPtWw+PPBfUpqtO4e3dXa5TMXLcc++zafoTUszv4lsK4uzLdQcMSEQqv8R/FHvNdr+G+o2tRprd1J42sDyGXBB/X5EVyvXaNmtqQHJBMuSJYYAgzIGD+6O3pRj4F1vhvc0wkF/8ANEtuMgBSO3aDxODXNkqUNeC7i1I6mLygdqq6nWCMGg9xn7n86hdh3f8AnXJYygWbmpIzQ/Ua1icVK9xCOCahDZkKPqaBRI9TfI5+lWQHmCSPrTHuH+KkHzOTWASlByc1BccA4FSzHYU2+SRisYn07TVpVXknNCdOhBk1bu3cEDmgZjNXf/hFVXvHiorl9jgYrw2GojEnimlUf7KfelWCa5NBUy6QCrH1rxmFVo5uTZE9kbSBzGPnWa+LDNritMb6juKz3WrO9HVcxJFAeHYN/wAKr82dRbP7l0EfJ1j/AONbR2xXMvgfVPYXWuELQbRx7b9xGMwDMe1aXQdcY3Etu4ZboJt3AIn/AEntOCPmI7iqT7A4O2zO/wCJLMLlp14Kuk9gefpIJ+1D+jdXtGx4GsSUEhLoyUPv3AEg7lmJEiONl8X6BX0rkwSpVx8wwH5gkVyrW9SaNiYQmdvIBHcA4U55AHMcYqmNclRm6VlvrWquXXt2LOouXzKhA5G5CTgbiYImCGJioeqdIOnm6HsOWIgK+8WjcBcTA2mQG2lSwwfarHQtPcRlYxjayiRtkQykxI9P/urPXdE1tbxM+EUlHddqtsujw9vbNouqgc5xAMWjJXxROcXXJmY0FhzdUK3nc7FI5m4CmCYz5vUfSp+v7m1DMxDErbII4K+GoU8ntHBiZq50zTlL+ncq6/51ppIgRvBnPrRL/FlCOqXT2K2o9IFpR+tWU7ZzyjxM5pEDROPMAYGYb+kfnXQvh34WuLp7y3lCvdC7RIJQpuIJI4Mt2nHzisJ0ESz+qoWHqGXKkfIwfeINF7Pxdqlk+MTuaSCFOfQSMD2GKjmUnpF8WlYQ02rusjaN9wUOQQHALPwATElRHt/TPW7iWryXFkhLgYkCPKDmMycTWw1ItXrg1GndS3lF3aeGJBRp7eYQW9J96G/EHTwVNxFUrgsTG/c/YgAQBxIETUIySe/JZrkjZttImZ+tRNdXtH60F6BeZtOkkSsqf9vE+8RRE2vLJNc0lToouhajVRic15p37kGpNLplgnE/nU4EUAnt5scVSu6kqCTwKt3TWY6t1cKzJsZogGIiWGBP1FGMXJ0gWl2FtH1cOTHaOffiidm6TWD0up2X22JCckNIwc4kAj2kcfettonlQw4YAj5H2ppw4mTtF5VmDUhUVXDGvN1SATeGo45pouUwXR6ivHuqO9YxLJpVD4q/2DXlYJpCznvFNNsdzNOZgOTUT6tRmKqSJFQDtUOpHBiBwfkf/NDL3WzkSFqDUvedfKYMYkEj5wCJ+9Ybiybp/TPB1Fy4GAtuoESBtIJP2MsSfX8s31O7YBIsv5GJuIBhrN5TJgHIVoke4oL1tdSLu/VMpKgC3nBHqq89sk949qgvdULDaRztBYCDCmQDjOYOfSq8GNH7N71PqwvdPa4oALIoOeG3AMPvMfSuaeAA6ys5wuQD6yQQYgdvy5o3peoqunv2TkGCk480iY94g/ShvTrg8VCQWyRA5yD2poWrM4qqINdrFkqttQChUplh7nLO0+8iKiPUb38ZE7Z8iruZVKhjumTDNmP3j61s72lTlEY/7QQPXDMaDaxVIKhc+20Z+g+dFZV9C+1fkB6c3Dctna1y9cdPDLsSR52TAwMmBHEitd/iaF/aHvMDvS4pt7gDau2jZsqQCDIKvuIEQfN6GhvS7v7Lct3sF1LHI3bTBgx7By3zAo71L4a1Wqsftmqu2wUtb9gJwoBdgDELI2nvleRJqqyJuyE8fFmH+HAq3fMYUqykmYyOOJqkuDHvIrVfDepTSv4t0gKVwAhdoPoPU+rEcfSh3VriX7hdZgkkBkVDzxCsw/Ohz+TfgfhSoI/AFsMb6HhkX7AsD/3UrJba4uAkiVacyRgEA9ye4zInvU/wdaKXifW2w+eQf5UZ1WnhyQozDf7uJ+0Vz5J3JloRrTAvwsPDcqeGHbsw4/nWkuPggj3FDrejzMRmcdu9N0vUGNxgcKHFuP4Wbdt+hiPrU3cnYzSXQU088R/Sm67Ui2oMSSQAJiSTVi3aPv8Aeq/V7cWvEj/02W4cfuqfP/7N1KlbFsfYfeu4e/Ptggj1Bx9Kx3Wpt3mYr5ReTeT/AAkgAR3kA1s9MoS7dUkFSovA+xG1wPkVB/30Ft27Oq0mohs3bpVdwAIuSCicwfMZkEiGPyqmNU7fQrlrRkdNqjvkjDkd+CqHH3mK3/SY/Z7RHBtoZj1WawepsvaubjbNpkQEFtplpP7okN5Ttj0EkijPQPiHw0S2266WjaoABtqBhR/Fn6gfarZsfJXESE/DNTcun3qB2P8A5Py96j6Prm1F10jwhbWSDlpJESCBGN2Kv3OkpO5rpgeuIrlarssmigjH1gex/lXj3jGSY+ePz/vNW36ODJDsB7gST2M/yApzdEUAbnPMYMAj3B9Pb7Vg2ih4o/s/+aVEf+E2/wCP9f6UqBuSLlzqQ75qhqOpkmBxQy3YuuZjHr2/OrydN43YI5zmaoakhmgZWuQaPanqag7RmMY9aFWrKIZAz6kA/UHsaf44HMce/b6UAPY7rGlXVW/DZDgyrAZU+snt61luq/DbWrYYeYTkif09PetlpGZ42j8wMesHNFbWnIHm59AR/KmTaF5Ucev2Dt3AGBEntmoukgeKu4AieCCwODjaMmTij3xhaa3ee3nYWNxR284EmPy+ntQDpo/zlMkQRkc81aL+LDLtM1jG2QU8XapHEP8A/IDFUL4S2DtIcziMClrrjEzvBA77EB9qC6q8coxkHvAmfp2qcY2O3RW/4kxDEcyT9wP6CuudRvH/AIZp0P4r1u0GHMqUBcf9Mj6iuQaDSlnVRyT7fzx963Ca+9cFpLpVVsoEXIPlIBk5jdAUc4iIBmq5aj0c6jKdNkfWNCFx7cREDtjgUM0+hBIERWh6siXCGAZ8RwY+nA+1VtJphP4Yrms6U9BTQ9H8IhiwMeg9vWptQgP9/wA6sWSSsEen1pLp5/vNKSv7AvV2S2gZz5Zg/rgcTAMVD8MdNfV2r7DyFyu12IJ3WwNrRzGFPvnNau10y06kXlDI3l2nA9Sfpj71Kt9NNdbJcFFAVckCTBVB5mJM8STHsapHoSU/CIn0myNxEn09e8VU6vpibNwKSpK8iJC/vRJidu6Jobe63qPGc+Gc7kso7IsMy7izAtII24R9pzA7ijf7d4GmN68MrbBbiFJEHHzMUOLTRrMl0C3duSiXIeyzLbuXGBJtlbZNtgF8wBAOI47xBBarQarT6lrrpvFplu3Gtt5SsziAoWYwIBx6Zonr7xttqblkE27ii3ugC3ZZyC6E7QMxIIBkBQcgUCtdRsqrXdQTqLzkr4bA7UCrC3IYZJkEdsvI4nqgn2Tk6ItWX1OpuXzavtZBLMbeHFuTkEhhzOPaPlFpbg0upDlC9kEI4YAhxtAcEZBMmYzBimavVPtc2Hum20llJZto3EebJKgj1JnGaXXVDBbuwIW3BlAI8xi4OSckOe/Y8VVLx46Jv789nTtQbSXLN1Au27/lSoEEMu+2TAyPIQP+er63BnzDy+mIrlA+Jbn7KmnxCMrW2/eVkYEA8yOYyIn0EVqOi/Egu23OxpLGRyBLbsH2mPby+orjyYZRVloTTdGkvalSQxEsPwkk/kvb70t7fvRxxH8xj6c15pwNu9jj3HH07ULtdVId2IDW8wTgDaT6jJII9T96hVlqDXjn2+x/rSqp/wAR9j/7f60q1Gojva0czA4E9/79qVrfczAA/wBUj+Xp3ovZ0hA4gDMZnOcyP79KfCL2Y5zjHy7H/wCqoDkCbPTyTLHH8K5/OidrpqjlAcyNwBzx3z3P3qyL0cYHrEn3gZFKyS3GB3b9M5z8qwrkz1GYDEcwIk+2Pf3qzasBfxZPpPf3P8qYCEGPuef/ABXnjiP0/wDNEUx3+IWlBZbmZ2xiIwflWGR9rKwHDA/Y10v4wsb7BaMqfTscfrFc+OnkinhL7KxVxCWv1aQQR+cjHofSgt4bjxRvVaQNBAI9pmPrz96ZZ0FCMkijVhn4CdbdrUk2WuEBCdpUNsEnkwYBGYJ5GOam6ZogzNcKxuYkKOBuMwJ7CaJfBvT9pdvUBCPVXn9GCmfnV/R6PaMkKOCcfqcUsnZJtRbosajTA2wfSqdnScd6NeGNoESfuaEa7r1q1eNl9oItBxJC7iSQEA7mBP8A90ONk1Jl5dMQMCmhINLQ63xGBVla2ySIIkH5c8BufTt3j6jrUtIbrnao5nn6AZJoUYj1t67blrKq7EAKrGFDCfMTMkceURJyTVbQ690/ArM9wuWaVO7aAsxiQNsxIVd3Hpn165fe+lvTHxzfYsoYYRd2QCIwFnLGcHEwK0+i1aqXtqULrdKFFPmkMyiC0LmMyTgGM8UppAdGK+JrOpa94/7OzurgofJIKAEDy+aASTtGDzkHG1s6gXbAuMnla2HKETgjdtIIzHuKHp1Fy2oRrVxXUB1BggLMB/E3EHzTJ5k8E1zDqPX3ZLdrc8W7ZtmGKq0AAExDMIHDevbiqRxvJr6FlJR2zc39Lb23Sobw7jHxdrMungITtW4BBWAD5oEzGKznxl0tlewBbKTahVPC20yCTyD5jg5yJNWPhv4k8e2dJeTeWZfDCqNpiDtbIlRHc9/YVH/iCDct6a8YwGtkDMFT5vsRHPpTwTjk4sDacLM9peo3LLXBbYbrltrR2EbSrggg9u+COCBTrKk2Lls8oyOBz+FmtsPT98HHpVTR6nZE20uAFiVfdtMgDO1lOIkQe/fimJqCCSvlDHKqSFgHgTJ4kZnk8ya6XH6IqW9kSjkd+386O6PSi2EuEcWkuDICszc8ncDwPLjynHFHk+D7B0L63xLhYWDcUCFUPE55J9MEViRqHbakzEKnAjJgA9ssf58Clv3Fr8zL4PZ0XRak3LIZWPmXgzBGQf79hVnVm14IWPMvl7ZnlvU4HH5+of8Aw8bct20xkoykGZwwKwPby8cZopcsyXwJnae/oJ57j9K8/JHjNo78cuSTBe5fX+/vXtXv2JPf/wBtKltFLNkmlhpgLjuZMccHA7555pjtJEDjj+xj05p9rTzJkzgScgx+h+Qk571YVwvB+p5xj5gfn8simOeyMacDLZzO3gz/AKv6c/rUhuCODPbsI9AP7+tQlycwI/LHz70gCY4+lYB6qTyOeAc/rU+wUkt/WqPxB1X9nRSI3M22MYkEzGPQfesbt0WdVpN9t0jlSPr2/OsLa0Qkgg8GIxB7dq2mh6srKs7g/DiI2t3map3dEN7RxJ/OgPCTjpgsaDAkdh9iJH5VZ0/TfaitnSe1WGK2rb3SMIrMfeAcZxzWSszmU9Bde2LlsANeNwLaSRuuL2gSP9WewEn1q71b4t0lgXUtX7Zu2s3Jys/wTInOMGQa5/q+sa3Tu9jSShNpbl14DahxcUElrhlpBaPIBHaImqNj4RRUB1epWxcYFhbAV3XuDc84gxLEZIWD6gdccaSOaTt7Om6Dqa6grqRae34lsbg0yuBBCnykY5Ak1h+o6Zr966bGsS4QN7yotvsRTJBKwdgx5T+92nOg1vTndNi6wC2ttTcbwwpa2wIJgkjifwgZjImufamxbVyttgyZHiKxG5TIzLqig7TgtBGc4lYq2PGktMN/B3xNF61YvsNwubUZQArLdjysFAHlPHpuI7VrfjLQC4nhltqyWggEFoICyxAElvX88jk17ar7lAJkGRu/Fg+s4OJBFFNH8QXL1xV1V0LbRQQfwnyECAOJIJwBOMYxRnjv5RMvi6YWu6rwLmVNu4LLqGQgOHKRhhmMqdvb1pvTb+zVTbVgCdyowYlSoEqQc8wfr7ic98Q663qL++2zMuxRJBGQNpgHOQF+Zmrdjw7qi3sIkiUR9u5wI3b2VonJIj09BCvHS3/wpGd9HT9T1ewl+xLCb4RWXafKLwlW3EkE+JsBkcSfWeS/GFtRf8W2yw5JgCGRlaDuB8248yQMkgYWtxfsj9i8B2/y13LbCsTcDL5wq7jmTGe04GFIGf4indp7d/8AZNjXxbd7rAkrKztBP4TIAOMjnmnxSSlohOOtmK6X1Frd63dLElGxuMwGBB/FIgT3keoNFNX09zau7yy+GzOwJlYeGAB9RJxJOZmKH6HTkCWhRwJGZP8Af5VpOl9L05taa+2xibjrdt7jJARiGIDThtn4eSQBM1Scldo0YtR2ZHQ61rUlAkmPMyI5WO67wQD7xOBUumZtRqE8VmdndA7GSxWQCZ9Av2Aq11jQ2xdY2gbdssYDzIE/T7fpwDnQL4t2WtjkOVYiMgiZ5yPN6+lGeVKNoEMTcqZ70r4stLotVorqsu5b3gbRKjfJFtsyAGJIOeTPGcSVzV3W6dmvsijL3DtH/OZUfPIFUgapBJbXklLvZq/8PNetu7cVhO9QQRk+U5Ed53T/ALa3d5N+AM9miI+ff6Vy/wCFdStvVWnYgKC0kmBBRhk1vLvX1f8A9K3dvCYm2rbfq5hfzri9VB87R1YJLiX/APh/+of9BpVS/wCI3v8A/Of/AMtn/wDalXNxf7aL8jZXG9fp6AU1xJ4jAjtj19TTrigH+/pUZ9AcfrTkjzYO8VUTXgXisSsGCATkQe2BORV/aYjiY57mMfkaG6lbbWyCBKzn1msFBfTX96h1nzCY/DXJ+oOwa55bbBHHiXrYbbvIJ2gjHrwo4z79E6UWOnZbLKbkwNxwJIHYcRJGOfXNCOr2rA0lxDrrXircW24JtqpbcCxKgFpHnO7278VTGrA5cGZv4e6jdLp3WTIy2AOwE+2B7V0MapGghSuQIMSGiY5n8ucc1husa7R271g6O2bZCE79q7WBPhBhJM8PJ7cyYo0NePBM3Zu7UcjyloDAmQAM8x6jvQyRpjL5KzX6aAyAnJkATBJgnExMRP0oN8X3wbF22biWR4e4tdBAeIOxcyW9gCc94IoD8Qag6rSCJRkIubknepWFeFkE+R2PMGImgHR/h3TE6kau6CVfZburckjapYvsElgQUABnJI5BFVxQi1bZCfJM0X7fpLNrxVe86u8G9dAW2WQeRl2W5PJnarkSJIjAv4f163bmo0mm8NbLncbjoS90bIYNlTtLFzkrgrgZFZnpPTluXEW8zEAbdoYQjM2FksAikSScxzmcENVqbNm4PBVbLIhRiLgultpBk7VGTBElc7j7RWXHddgipOrLOi6dqNb4+ltXVAtNtZHEu2y42wKYZzChyQDjaf4qD63p12xc2aguog22kho2jbGCZVWEr8sARTNR1wjUXL9pnU3B5ireHLQNxxHlJBMR3q18Q9ffWMLgSRbtWldwJ/d2sWYiSdxC7icwT+9h6dAWmAbbNG0z6j6VY0+lm4oYeUkAj2nNW+m6fewkhd0+ZuJ5zz+lGdRoJKraQuyCGZVwWDHzYJ9Y5jAqU8tOi0cVrYL/AGVZdRkC7zHAyAPfH6e9XrVtbWy4CTE7hEAE4gH0EiSff63h0+54hATaTBM5ABGfMOew/nRvp/TEVlJ8xBBggRIM8ZrnlkLcUkZi91u6rxuuLZAZXNqdx8QCQTicqO4E/PI3Wau9eRReLO0qQWuDcbZEeXcDncvY94C5MEevbrZexHlx2mYMqftH3Ne/DGrWLlu4rEsgVCANyABpI/hywzjMCqxlUbolOPyMa5M5ORRb4fu7n8JiYKPsg7dl0KWR5AnB+fNHrPwZdvEkwgJ5b9QB+hirln4HVGH+dcPaUGz55ziqy9RBqvJFYZKQGfpCLZC6i9HnZzAyWIC/iYknA/h7/Oqut6paAK2tzEkSzfvALtE8ZAA7dq6NpPhvSoACjPH8R/pFXbfSbKfgtKmP3FCn7iub31/Vv9C3FL+XRzHQ9G1V24t1LbEqQQSIBIMgySJzRlPgxmJa/cUFiW2oJJJMnmAO/ANb1U28f3/YqHw5MnM/3AxSS9RJ9aMoIz2i+G9Najba3N6uQ0fT8I+grQBVKR6ff7CnBDPBFOt2+8VGUnLtj6XRW/Zk/g/IUqtbT/c17S2ayQ3AJBM9/X7n5U1+obQc+2eMZxXtm2B+EDdIPrPzzjtTXsTnj5TIn3qwNEf7emA6nPAzHzn0/lVbVLPzzgN29quNYOYnMZPcjtT7NjEHJ7H0rGtIi6DZ2M3PHrg5/KsX1Xoz2eobTHg6jxiuTsLMpLKwnBIxwJx6GugaYFMYmPuZpvUtOLqbQwR5BDgBmWDJADAgz3niqY58RJ7dnIb4WXUT5HcQoAHhufEA28QPPGQJHORB3o1ndehiY8MKwEbhCjBAJzgcScHvQzrXSymte07jcbZcdhdgEjyjALZEeuO9bT4eVxbANu5vJYsMyTJMt3Pc5+tUyvSGhqyxZ6QhUqu4KZHmwSGBBwOOfzrE/GPTW0TItpvIy48vmxggk4P0A5HzroaW727CROfn7+1O6r0Fb+3xQrBcqGGAYg/THFSxy4vZpW/JzLpfRG1Vou+otr/mZLSxI2KYJ3AeXHlIxLZzFN6h8H3UP+SfFU4B2lDMc58se+6un6XoNtPwhU9diqMfQUUs6ZQvGBBGBB9jVf4iV66JcI+TmfTvh66qoBZ0yXO7OGvXJAEMATsEk8DGDR7TfCb3QP2nUXroj8APhW/+hf61qX2bt0ZknHA+XpViM5xj9am8smNSRmtJ8L2LWFtLzy3nPy88x9KKXbG1IH/j0q/dDjIx/cVFb0h5NTdvsNgzT6YTJyasXrQYRHHFTNpjPtNW7OlXgmloLYGGhtlgzIrQP3gCR37+9WN4AKoAA0SAB2B/qaI6nQRI/uDmof2NfXNbaNysoKgj1xT3BOT9qtiyo4xTgViOaAbKipNS+FinLANSW7k4PbigYh2YyMU0gRNWX1AiIqJYisYrWMzNK44BI4q0FgGq6IfSlCRbx6V7U37Oa9rGIdP+MfSpx/IUqVWAJOafa5X5GlSogEe/9+lQaevKVYyK3Q+R8rn8qN6Lk/Jv+2lSo+QT8jT+IU7uaVKgAj9Pn/OprX4DSpVjMrdvv+tTN/T9BSpUAk9OfmlSoilTU/iP1/SoLfNKlSsZBA8/7V/7RVW7yaVKjIESFeKhWlSqbGGipLf4qVKgEkHNTLxSpUTDrn4ab2pUqAD2lSpVgn//2Q==)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 10, 2020, 06:56:00 PM
yes Humungus!
you can come out and play

but before that deal with the plague, the depression, the wars
that are coming....

then you can play
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 10, 2020, 07:02:27 PM
Quote
Coronavirus Live Updates: British Health Minister Has Virus; No Audience for Next Democratic Debate
http://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/world/coronavirus-news.html
Sorry if re-posting
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 10, 2020, 08:02:04 PM
so...

one of two things will happen this week...
either way, the total number of infected is going to rise sharply in the USA from its current level of 1,000+....

scenario 1
the sharp increase in the number of cases is because testing has revealed that there are more cases than were previously being detected without testing! duh!
and so after a few days of having a “bump” to play “catchup”

it then goes back down to 20 to 25% increase in infections per day and then as the weather warms
starts to drop even further....

but by the end of the month, we will end up with at least as many cases as Italy has now
which means there are going to be some BIG changes going on
in USA society by then!!
we're talking just at the end of this month!

scenario 2
this is the beginning of the “exponential phase”
in a few days the rate of increase in daily infections will rise to above 50% increase per day
and we will stay at this rate for a while...

this would be alarming, because this could only happen in the winter in wuhan
and it would be happening now in warmer weather here
which means in November we will have Wuhan

easily have a 100,000+ infected
whole economy shut down and on life support...
and then in one day it doubles!!!
and then again, because you're at PEAK SEASON now!!!

and this is ONLY the first year....
getting the picture?

millions....

then tens of millions....

every year

with totally new strains every couple of years
competing with older ones
and you can get them both....

and the flu infection rate has also doubled at the same time....

getting it yet?  what this winter is gonna be like?

will it be this year or next year that the entire medical system breaks down here?
as well as the whole damned economy

you guys seriously, don't "get it" yet do ya?

also dumb phuques...
please pay attention to what I'm about to tell you...

the party of Trump is doing its best to spin this as a "nothing burger"
as usual, you dumb asses are getting played by them...
but tell me, why don't THEY want YOU to panic
when at the same time, THEY obviously ARE in full-court hysterical panic!
and putting all their efforts into brainwashing you
and NOT actually trying to protect you
why?
what does that tell you what it is they really care about
you?
or your vote?
do you understand the difference, the distinction?
don't you see the basic truth of my words to you
my plea to you actually to just open your eyes and see what's
right in front of you!

don't stick your head in the sand like party of Trump wants you to
start preparing and try to save yourself and your family
NOW!

because once everyone starts to figure out what I'm telling you NOW
in a couple of weeks
YOU WILL start to see panic
and life is going to slowly become harder and harder


and dumb phuques...
especially those with kids...
how are you going to feel this winter when you kid starts coughing?
thought about that?



This message was approved by Joe Biden







Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 10, 2020, 08:28:08 PM
I still say I talk is in a state of virtual martial law despite comments by other earlier posters. Perhaps to stop the potential for looting and chaos on the streets.

Again, here you go fearmongering.  Looting and chaos on the streets start with folks like you that post such bullshit. It's almost like you desire the chaos to justify the few rolls of extra TP in your possession, just waiting for women to knock on your door so you can finally get a piece of the action.

In 'red zones' where cases first appeared and containment efforts started, no new cases were reported.  The hospitals in Milan are reporting that despite obvious stresses at medical facilities no one that needed it had to go without intensive respiratory treatment.  Here where the number of cases is still low a large number of intensive care beds were added, around 200 and still growing most remain empty but ready if needed with many more hundreds of beds are available for those newly infected that don't need intensive treatment.  Smaller hospitals that were closed some time ago have reopened.

All remains calm with the vast majority of the population complying with restrictions.  There are no riots in the general population (some rowdy jails did have problems since family visits were cancelled) There is no looting.

I must say that I initially thought all of this was a bit overdoing it (in comparison to other countries) but only little more than a week later must say that all signs point to the measures being effective and prudent.  Despite my doubts that Italians had the wherewithal to pull something like this off, efforts and results have been quite impressive.  Due to age I border on the low end of the higher risk group and do feel safer because of it.  I worry more about my parents who live elsewhere.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 10, 2020, 09:08:06 PM
Italy has now updated their numbers and report 631 people have died to 724 recoveries. The sample pool in Italy is large enough to have merit and Italy is telling a different story of what China is telling pertaining to the ratio of dead to those who beat the virus.

Billy, I disagree.

The numbers in China are similar to what we are experiencing in Italy.  The timeline and rate of reported infections is very similar.  What is dissimilar is that China did much more testing than even here despite having to develop, produce and distribute tests in the first place.  In the end, I'm confident that when all the numbers are crunched mortality rates will be much the same here as what China reported.  You need to consider the time factor as well.  The situation in China is stabilizing whereas here we seem to be mid-cycle where infections are still on the upswing in new areas.  Most folks that are tested here are those that have at least some initial symptoms.

It all comes down to testing.  If it is not being done it's sorta like driving your car with a broken gas gauge.  Never know how much gas is in the tank.  China did more tests in a day than the US in a month.  That is their advantage.  They had not only enough 'test kits' which are really only plastic tubes and swabs but the laboratory capacity as well to run the tests before the samples expired.  CDC has the capacity to run less than 500 tests per day.  US testing is a lengthy process that can take days until results are available. Meanwhile, China has quickly developed tests that give results much faster and without the need for more expensive and time-consuming testing equipment.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/faulty-covid-19-test-kits-tilt-scales-in-coronaviruss-favor/ar-BB10HC4s
http://www.biocentury.com/article/304545/who-china-makes-and-deploys-1-6-million-covid-19-tests-week-the-u-s-is-just-starting-to-ramp-up-capacity
http://www.ecns.cn/news/society/2020-02-15/detail-ifztrmvi9818594.shtml
http://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/10/coronavirus-testing-lab-materials-shortage-125212
 
Added:

Demographics may be the most significant role in mortality rates for Italy which is significantly higher than in China, mainly due to much higher life expectancy M/F 81/86 in Italy, 75/79 CN, 76/81 US

Quote
In Italy, nearly a quarter of the population is more than 65 years old. In the U.S., only 16% is. In China, 11%.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/italy-has-an-old-population-thats-why-so-many-are-dying-from-coronavirus-there

One would expect the mortality rate in the US to lie somewhere in between, more in line with figures from China.


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 10, 2020, 09:57:00 PM
  China did more tests in a day than the US in a month.  That is their advantage.  They had not only enough 'test kits' which are really only plastic tubes and swabs but the laboratory capacity as well to run the tests before the samples expired.  CDC has the capacity to run less than 500 tests per day.  US testing is a lengthy process that can take days until results are available. Meanwhile, China has quickly developed tests that give results much faster and without the need for more expensive and time-consuming testing equipment.
and all we hear from the patriots here is how inferior china is...yet they can get the job done and we can not...and now we are the ones paying ransom for TP from the likes of the 'evil' and capitalistic trenchcoat.  by next week he will have a line of women offering anything for his prized toilet paper, which if he were smart he would offer to sell by the foot only, to keep them coming back for more. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 10, 2020, 10:01:43 PM
For all those proudly posting they're 'stocked up'..

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/10/as-coronavirus-spreads-i-am-terrified-that-australias-fear-and-greed-could-cost-my-son-his-life (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/10/as-coronavirus-spreads-i-am-terrified-that-australias-fear-and-greed-could-cost-my-son-his-life)

"Stockpiling essential supplies and ignoring quarantine advice can have deadly consequences for the most vulnerable among us"

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: IvanM07 on March 10, 2020, 10:19:09 PM
Being that most of us stocked up a month ago when this was widely proclaimed by those with firsthand accounts from doctors that this was no worse than the flu I hardly see how that applies to anyone on this board.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 10, 2020, 10:25:08 PM
Being that most of us stocked up a month ago when this was widely proclaimed by those with firsthand accounts from doctors that this was no worse than the flu I hardly see how that applies to anyone on this board.

Then you may be exactly the type of contributor I had in mind ..... 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-51823128/coronavirus-don-t-panic-be-community-minded-says-loo-roll-boss (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-51823128/coronavirus-don-t-panic-be-community-minded-says-loo-roll-boss)

Saw the above article on the state of UK toilet roll supply and thought of Trench and his family ..
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: IvanM07 on March 10, 2020, 10:29:10 PM
Then you may be exactly the type of contributor I had in mind ..... 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-51823128/coronavirus-don-t-panic-be-community-minded-says-loo-roll-boss (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-51823128/coronavirus-don-t-panic-be-community-minded-says-loo-roll-boss)

Saw the above article on the state of UK toilet roll supply and thought of Trench and his family ..

Didn't know they had toilet paper issues a month ago. Were they sending that message by carrier pidgeon?

Glad they could tell us now. I promise not to buy any more toilet paper for the good of the people  :-*

At least until this 18 rolls turns out, so maybe a year.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 10, 2020, 10:56:30 PM
Billy, I disagree.

The numbers in China are similar to what we are experiencing in Italy.  The timeline and rate of reported infections is very similar.


I've watch the John Hopkins reporting from the beginning and China never reported the same way Italy is reporting. Italy currently reports 631 dead and 724 recoveries. China currently reports 3162 dead and 61,559 recoveries which means they are much more immune to the virus compared to Italians. I seriously doubt it. When China had around 600 deaths like Italy has currently, they reported around 11,000 recoveries.

China had this virus longer than Italy and has just over 80k infections. Italy has just over 8k infections. China has 23 times the population yet they have just 10 times more infection than Italy. China has massively under reported what was going on in their country. One out of every 6000 Italians is infected. One out of every 17,284 Chinese is infected. Based on the amount of time the virus ran around China, China should be worse off but instead Italians are infected at near 3 times the rate the Chinese are. Heck, the county I live in is infected at a higher rate than China per person.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2020, 02:44:58 AM
I've watch the John Hopkins reporting from the beginning and China never reported the same way Italy is reporting. Italy currently reports 631 dead and 724 recoveries.

Indeed, in this country I notice the news service reported these figures I guess to let it start seeping out the actual mortality to survival rate probably so they aren't accused later of covering it up as the WHO have done so far.

So it's roughly one third died, two thirds lived. Matters could be worse but it's still a shockingly high mortality rate especially when put against the 1-2 percent mortality rate the WHO were originally trying to make out. I'm not sure if people really caught on that much here as they only briefly reported it and didn't go into any lengthy analysis of the figures at all.

I'm thinking a lot of people are still thinking those deaths were nearly all elderly with underlying health conditions. Many probably were but there could be a range of ages in there. They don't seem to be coming forward with any statistical breakdown of who died by age group and any statistics of how many who died had existing health problems. If they did I think a lot more people would be panicking.

I think also at the moment as the numbers that are infected are still quite small people are focusing on that rather than any long term situation of mass infection/society collapsing. I think most are just trying to get on with life as normal and hope the finger of fate doesn't land on them. At the moment the odds of that are still very low in the UK, but obviously it falls on some people each day. So it's still a few hundred in a population of nearly 68 Million.

I don't see that a societal breakdown would be a place that many people would want to be. It would make living worse than the present situation. How long we go on working until time out is called and the state quarentines the country in lockdown and self isolates everyone I don't know. I imagine in Italy some people still work to keep the lights on such as delivery drivers, supermarket workers, etc. Until they call time out most of us are just living with the risk however small of catching the virus yet many of us can only go without an income for so long and businesses & the government can only go on so long with minimal trade going on.

There seems to be two ways this virus will end.

1). A vaccine will be produced and eventually distributed.

2). It will run out of steam either having infected a lot of people and/or quarentining reducing reducing those available to infect.

A vaccine is probably at least a few months away, six months probably or more to a year or so. Odds are we will get lockdown before then and I'm guessing they will try to reduce it spreading till a vaccine comes out and use s combination of both of the above.

I reckon when they force people to stay at home in lockdown that is when the economic process of doing things will change in this country. Employers will be forced to allow employees to work from home in a trade is better than no trade situation. At the moment I don't think many are bothering as they don't want the disruption to their normal ways of working. Over time those that can't work from home will be allowed to go back to work once the numbers of infected tail off as they won't be able to keep up keeping everyone away from work indefinitely. The risk will then just be there until everyone gets vaccination then the whole matter will be concluded I reckon. It will probably drag in a while before everyone gets the vaccine so probably a good 18 months or so for us to endure all of this I'm thinking.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2020, 02:57:54 AM
Then you may be exactly the type of contributor I had in mind ..... 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-51823128/coronavirus-don-t-panic-be-community-minded-says-loo-roll-boss (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-51823128/coronavirus-don-t-panic-be-community-minded-says-loo-roll-boss)

Saw the above article on the state of UK toilet roll supply and thought of Trench and his family ..

Your not thinking deeper than what they tell you in the article Mobers. Yes in theory they can supply all that is needed and more so, but the government is probably going to go into lockdown at some point in the UK and/or reduce the numbers of people working. So how is that going to affect supply? It is likely to go down, it may not, it will depend on how many are allowed to keep up working. If the government does not go into lockdown and the situation becomes worse then it comes down to how many people will call in sick either because they are or more likely because they don't want to take the risk and would rather make sure themselves and their family are safe and at least risk. Many people if push comes to shove will look to safeguard their way of life rather than ending up in a miserable situation.

Toilet roll is not the most pressing item as it can be substituted with newspaper (not that there is as much of that as there once was), leaves from the garden, etc. It all a case of whether you want to take the risk that you may be wiping your behind and it not feeling too great Mobers :)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2020, 03:08:01 AM
For all those proudly posting they're 'stocked up'..

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/10/as-coronavirus-spreads-i-am-terrified-that-australias-fear-and-greed-could-cost-my-son-his-life (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/10/as-coronavirus-spreads-i-am-terrified-that-australias-fear-and-greed-could-cost-my-son-his-life)

"Stockpiling essential supplies and ignoring quarantine advice can have deadly consequences for the most vulnerable among us"

They had plenty of time to stock up and chose not to despite their child's illnesses.

Problem with society is that everyone wants to knock out kids and sustain those with bad incurable medical problems for as long as possible. That is only natural and emotional but society and the world is creaking under the burden of it all. I don't wish not for people to survive but I'm not sure whether it is possible to keep on the way we have been going with trying to prolong life to the bitter end which is not necessarily humane for that people anyway.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 11, 2020, 03:10:19 AM
Billy,

you disregarded my previous posts explaining the difference in mortality.  Also, a lot more testing per capita in China was done than in Italy.

Wuhan area has a population of around 11 million.

Recalculate with these additional factors and add in a bit of oranges with your apples.

Sure it started in China before they were able to notice something amiss, detect it and create a test for it.  I guesstimate 3 weeks or so and this stuff moves pretty fast.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 11, 2020, 03:19:10 AM
EXACTLY the response I expected ..


They had plenty of time to stock up and chose not to despite their child's illnesses.

Problem with society is that everyone wants to knock out kids and sustain those with bad incurable medical problems for as long as possible. That is only natural and emotional but society and the world is creaking under the burden of it all. I don't wish not for people to survive but I'm not sure whether it is possible to keep on the way we have been going with trying to prolong life to the bitter end which is not necessarily humane for that people anyway.

Thank goodness not everyone is  as selfish as you
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2020, 03:35:05 AM
EXACTLY the response I expected ..


Thank goodness not everyone is  as selfish as you

Yeah, the complaint from everyone who was too tardy to have the intellect to realise they needed to get in quick. Lol :)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 11, 2020, 03:46:14 AM
Hope Trench never has kids lest they are born or become disabled.  Guess he'd pull the plug on his own kid or wife with a smile on his face.

Guess he also doesn't need his retirement or other benefits that will be paid for by 'knocked out kids'.

Must suck to be you Trenchie.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2020, 03:46:55 AM
Again, here you go fearmongering.  Looting and chaos on the streets start with folks like you that post such bullshit. It's almost like you desire the chaos to justify the few rolls of extra TP in your possession, just waiting for women to knock on your door so you can finally get a piece of the action.

I'm sorry BC I keep mistaking the Italian flag for the Irish one, they look so similar, you must if course be very concerned to be stuck in the thick of it all. It must be scary having your personal liabilities such as freedom of movement taken away from you. You're probably right, best to not think of it in such stark terms and get on with life the best you can.

Anyway, yep I could have the women lining up ready to part em for a few ply each I guess :D

Who would have thought my purchase would pay off in such a wonderful way!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2020, 03:58:26 AM
Hope Trench never has kids lest they are born or become disabled.  Guess he'd pull the plug on his own kid or wife with a smile on his face.

Guess he also doesn't need his retirement or other benefits that will be paid for by 'knocked out kids'.

Must suck to be you Trenchie.

BC, even many of the actual sufferers themselves have had enough at the end of the day, hence the 'assisted suicide' to die with dignity lot. Yet some of us insist on prolonging their pain, misery and suffering such is the wish of others for the sanctity of life for them.

You know even many Doctors in good health chose to carry tattoos and other insignia to 'please do not resuscitate' themselves if they should suffer a heart attack or similar. The pain and agony of some numpty breaking your rib cage that invariably often happens during CPR only to likely die a little while later is something they would rather avoid.

The problem is these days we here it all too often, 'my son/daughter has this or that'. Like it or not it's becoming a big burden to society. I'm not saying to knock them off or give them no treatment but all that treatment is very expensive and their quality off life is not good. Some of these women even go on to have other children and keep having kids with similar problems. This virus as little as we like it could be nature's way of alleviating society of what we do not want to deal with ourselves. It's not nice nor wanted nor welcomed by me, it's just happening regardless of how we feel.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 11, 2020, 03:59:52 AM
What's to be sorry about Trench?  Don't stand behind your own words?

We're doing fine, getting ready to go do some quick shopping in town, drop by the ATM machine and get a coffee on the way back, prepare a nice lunch, take a nice 'nap' together. Maybe I'll start working on the pool a bit this afternoon as it's already getting warmer and swimming season isn't far off.  In all, more than you can even dream of doing today which mainly consists of posting drivel here and switching to pornhub every now and again for a quick pull.  Our temporary 'restrictions' are nothing compared to the permanent limits of that which resides between your ears.

 :popcorn:
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2020, 07:49:58 AM
What's to be sorry about Trench?  Don't stand behind your own words?

We're doing fine, getting ready to go do some quick shopping in town, drop by the ATM machine and get a coffee on the way back, prepare a nice lunch, take a nice 'nap' together. Maybe I'll start working on the pool a bit this afternoon as it's already getting warmer and swimming season isn't far off.  In all, more than you can even dream of doing today which mainly consists of posting drivel here and switching to pornhub every now and again for a quick pull.  Our temporary 'restrictions' are nothing compared to the permanent limits of that which resides between your ears.

 :popcorn:

You're at ease at the moment BC but what happens when money starts running out. Not at work = no pay. Perhaps you are retired and odds are the government can keep paying pension till this virus thing is sorted. What about others though that live hand to mouth? I can't see them going long before things get pretty tight.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 11, 2020, 08:10:51 AM
and all we hear from the patriots here is how inferior china is...yet they can get the job done and we can not...and now we are the ones paying ransom for TP from the likes of the 'evil' and capitalistic trenchcoat.  by next week he will have a line of women offering anything for his prized toilet paper, which if he were smart he would offer to sell by the foot only, to keep them coming back for more. 

It is during times like this that we must realize differences amongst us will be undeniably amplified. What seems like right for some, will be direly wrong for others. What you might deem as a reasonable step to protect yourself, can easily be considered selfish by another.

Panic situations drive people to such unbelievable behavior. Rightly or wrongly, we must all remember that sometimes sharing information in public may well be well-intentioned by some, but could also proved to be devastating for others...

Having said this, please remember I share this information with you with my deepest and sincere hope it received with equal fervor. I decided to attach the information and not posting it openly so members will have a choice as to whether or not they need to know. I urge you to please be diligent. After receiving the information, decide what's best for you and your family.


The Patriot, Class 1-AA
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 11, 2020, 08:15:00 AM



Having said this, please remember I share this information with you with me deepest and sincere hope it received with equal fervor. I decided to attach the information and not posting it openly so members will have a choice as to whether or not they need to know. I urge you to please be diligent. After receiving the information, decide what's best for you and your family.


The Patriot, Class 1-AA
Holy Moses!  That's it, I"m going back to using newspapers,  tree bark and my hand.   Trenchcoat's grand plan has backfired, he should burn the TP before he infects all the desperate ladies in his town.

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 11, 2020, 08:25:27 AM
Billy,

you disregarded my previous posts explaining the difference in mortality.  Also, a lot more testing per capita in China was done than in Italy.

Wuhan area has a population of around 11 million.

Recalculate with these additional factors and add in a bit of oranges with your apples.

Sure it started in China before they were able to notice something amiss, detect it and create a test for it.  I guesstimate 3 weeks or so and this stuff moves pretty fast.

BC, you came late to these virus threads but if you go back and from the beginning, I was telling everybody this virus is extremely dangerous and China is lying about their numbers. You pointing me to China's did more testing and implying their numbers are good isn't going to change my mind since they aren't telling the truth. As America and European nations do more testing, you will notice they will have similar results to Italy. Humans are humans. Chinese don't have some super immunity to viruses compared to the rest of us.  When this virus broke out, it was reported it wasn't any more dangerous than the flu which has a mortality rate of .1%. Then it was reported COVID has a mortality rate of 2%. Now it's reported it has a mortality rate of 3.4%. The way mortality rate is calculated is flawed and as more reliable reports come in and provide more weight to China's watered down numbers, the next report on mortality rate will be higher.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 11, 2020, 08:41:00 AM
Some meds for the likes of Trench and fellow hoarders..
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 11, 2020, 08:54:26 AM

Stupidity likely will kill many more than Corona virus

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/dawn-neesom-the-human-race-21669145
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 11, 2020, 09:14:51 AM
Stupidity likely will kill many more than Corona virus
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/dawn-neesom-the-human-race-21669145 (http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/dawn-neesom-the-human-race-21669145)

Love that photo of those three ladies engaged in a fist fight over toilet papers. LMAO! I searched and there actually is the video. Happened in Oz.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQv5PWMzI-w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQv5PWMzI-w)




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 11, 2020, 09:32:02 AM
Love that photo of those three ladies engaged in a fist fight over toilet papers. LMAO! I searched and there actually is the video. Happened in Oz.


One lady had a whole shopping cart full of toilet paper. All those ladies have pretty big butts to wipe though. Hope they get the virus under control. Humanity is only 3 meals away from total anarchy.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 11, 2020, 09:32:51 AM
You're at ease at the moment BC but what happens when money starts running out. Not at work = no pay. Perhaps you are retired and odds are the government can keep paying pension till this virus thing is sorted. What about others though that live hand to mouth? I can't see them going long before things get pretty tight.

Trench,

Folks that are not sick are going to work like they always do. Folks that are sick get sick leave. If folks lose jobs because their company goes bankrupt they get unemployment. Work is a necessity and getting to and from work allowed.  Easy or?

Amazon still delivers as well as the postman and other couriers.

I repeat, the intent is not to cubbyhole everyone until it passes, it is to prevent too much overloading of the healthcare system to the point folks can't get the care they need.

As far as the timeline goes, with the measures in place, things should begin to normalize in the next couple weeks when the number of new cases starts to drop a bit and the hospitals in the hardest-hit areas have some breathing room.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2020, 09:50:36 AM
Trench,

Folks that are not sick are going to work like they always do. Folks that are sick get sick leave. If folks lose jobs because their company goes bankrupt they get unemployment. Work is a necessity and getting to and from work allowed.  Easy or?

Then they are playing with their lives, worse than that if they get Coronavirus they could be in for a world of pain as we saw from that New York guy that reported on it he was in hospital for a month. Apparently you get a real bad fever, profuse sweating followed by struggling to breath, not at all good. This isn't a 'oh you're a bit sick go home and rest it for for a few days', you're in for a bad time in a big way with this one.

BBC today reports:

"In Italy, which has seen a steep rise in cases, the prime minister pledged 25bn euros ($22bn) to tackle the outbreak - up from the 7.5bn euros announced last week.

Thousands of flights have been cancelled worldwide as airlines struggle to cope with a slump in demand.

Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte announced the closure of schools, gyms, museums, nightclubs and other venues across the country, which on Wednesday passed 10,000 confirmed infections."

Also,

"The Foreign Office has issued a travel update for British nationals in Italy, urging all remaining tourists to contact their airline operators and return back to the UK."

So it's basically last boarding call for British citizens to get out of Italy or they will likely be stuck there in an ever deepening ordeal that increasingly deteriorates as more time passes. Italy is presently only in its second day of lockdown. The north has been in London lockdown for longer but either way it is still early days. It's when the lockdown drags on and people start to get restless is when the sh*t hits the fan.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 11, 2020, 09:51:25 AM
BC, you came late to these virus threads but if you go back and from the beginning, I was telling everybody this virus is extremely dangerous and China is lying about their numbers. You pointing me to China's did more testing and implying their numbers are good isn't going to change my mind since they aren't telling the truth. As America and European nations do more testing, you will notice they will have similar results to Italy. Humans are humans. Chinese don't have some super immunity to viruses compared to the rest of us.  When this virus broke out, it was reported it wasn't any more dangerous than the flu which has a mortality rate of .1%. Then it was reported COVID has a mortality rate of 2%. Now it's reported it has a mortality rate of 3.4%. The way mortality rate is calculated is flawed and as more reliable reports come in and provide more weight to China's watered down numbers, the next report on mortality rate will be higher.

Billy,

I am certainly not here to change your mind, just expressing my thoughts about factors you are not considering.  If any figures are inaccurate it will be in places where testing is limited or not being done for certain groups, like folks that died with flu type symptoms.  Without wide testing where do you think you'll get 'more reliable reports'?  You'll just have to wait till it's over and the statisticians can do their job with the data collected and all factors like the ones I mention considered. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 11, 2020, 10:08:23 AM
"In Italy, which has seen a steep rise in cases, the prime minister pledged 25bn euros ($22bn) to tackle the outbreak - up from the 7.5bn euros announced last week.


BBc reporter messed up on the exchange rate but Italy is following South Korea's footsteps by investing close to $500 per citizen to fight the virus and the damage it's causing. That's a steep price to pay for something that is only infecting a minority of citizens but governments realize the danger because battling this virus on the cheap may end up costing us more.

I'm disappointed in South Korea's reporting lately. They've gotten lazy. The government doesn't want to lie but telling the truth will create panic. I guess they adopted the policy better to tell no news than bad news. Italy continues to report multiple times a day on their situation.

Billy,

I am certainly not here to change your mind, just expressing my thoughts about factors you are not considering.  If any figures are inaccurate it will be in places where testing is limited or not being done for certain groups, like folks that died with flu type symptoms.  Without wide testing where do you think you'll get 'more reliable reports'?  You'll just have to wait till it's over and the statisticians can do their job with the data collected and all factors like the ones I mention considered. 

There are honest doctors that incorrectly diagnosed influenza as the cause of people who are currently infected and for those that died. China's influenza rate went up 50% recently. I understand that but I also understand the Chinese government manipulated the numbers so they don't look so bad to their people and the world so I don't trust their reporting. Both early on of the spread of the virus in China and Italy, doctors will misdiagnose since there was a shortage of test kits early on in both countries so the numbers should be similar before and after the test kits came out but they aren't.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 11, 2020, 10:17:00 AM
Trench,

Folks that are not sick are going to work like they always do. Folks that are sick get sick leave. If folks lose jobs because their company goes bankrupt they get unemployment. Work is a necessity and getting to and from work allowed.  Easy or?

Amazon still delivers as well as the postman and other couriers.

I repeat, the intent is not to cubbyhole everyone until it passes, it is to prevent too much overloading of the healthcare system to the point folks can't get the care they need.

As far as the timeline goes, with the measures in place, things should begin to normalize in the next couple weeks when the number of new cases starts to drop a bit and the hospitals in the hardest-hit areas have some breathing room.

BC, hope all is well with you brother.

I have found for Trench to understand anything you must first break it down to a molecular level and then it's only 50/50. However he does have a slightly better percentage than others here.

Trench, the man on the ground has told you numerous times the conditions in Italy. You are clamoring to the BBC reports that parrot all of the other reports around the world. He's living it, maybe he might have a little more cred than you and your reports?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 11, 2020, 11:10:18 AM
BC, hope all is well with you brother.

Thanks for the thought FP :)

We're doing fine so far and folks here seem to be doing what needs to be done in a cooperative way and working together with few scuffles.  It is 'different' but we do feel safe knowing things are getting done all around us without any hesitation.  That seems to help keep folks calm here.

Italy should be a 'heads up' for all as far as being proactive goes. I give 'em high 5's for how it's being handled here.  OTOH I'm really surprised by how little is being done elsewhere, especially in my second 'home' with parents in the 80's.  They are being very prudent though on their own, staying at home just as much as we do here.

Be prudent, stay safe and don't catch that dangerous fear bug many are infected with. 

This too shall pass..

Take care of yourself and family buddy!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 11, 2020, 11:32:29 AM
Governor of Washington State just announce he's banning gatherings of over 250 people in three counties. Seattle Mariners baseball team season is about to begin. They may end up playing in a stadium elsewhere since they'll lose money playing in Seattle. Musicians with live concerts coming up will have to cancel their events. Comic Con in Seattle had been cancelled before this announcement. Churches that hold more than 250 people at a time will have to turn people away so they don't violate the new. Not a quarantine yet here but another step towards one.


http://tinyurl.com/whdoco4
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 11, 2020, 11:34:41 AM
...There are honest doctors that incorrectly diagnosed influenza as the cause of people who are currently infected and for those that died. China's influenza rate went up 50% recently. I understand that but I also understand the Chinese government manipulated the numbers so they don't look so bad to their people and the world so I don't trust their reporting. Both early on of the spread of the virus in China and Italy, doctors will misdiagnose since there was a shortage of test kits early on in both countries so the numbers should be similar before and after the test kits came out but they aren't.

Maybe this is an exercise in futility but I am still uncertain how exactly China 'manipulated' their numbers when so many intangibles surrounding the discovery of this virus is STILL unknown, including conclusive evidence of its origin, tests/testing criteria, transmission, etc...China, along with other countries, can only hope to slow down the spread (lockdowns, quarantine, etc..) until we get answers to things that are, to this day, still needs to be determined e.g. therapy, cure, fool-proofed test kits, etc..

The rising amount of infection is the most critical aspect of this so as not to cause additional pressure on everyone's health resources which are going rapidly at challenged states. The better the testing methodology, the better the screening and determination. This will certainly 'escalate' the infected number, but hell, that's just the natural progression of any epidemic. Numbers will change and get adjusted later on when most things surrounding this virus become 'known'.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: IvanM07 on March 11, 2020, 11:39:38 AM
The panic at least hasn't struck here yet. Was in Raleigh yesterday, Flew into CLT today, stopped by the CVS next to work and TP and Water was everywhere. May be they assumed a larger run on stores since they even had it in the beer Aisle. At least for now no one is making a final TP run to stock them for the next 2 decades.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 11, 2020, 12:02:57 PM
The Patriot, Class 1-AA

LOL... I guess we'll be spared from the Great TP War here as most here have a bidet available with TP used only as a pre-wash wipe..  Heck, we even have a well if public water goes out.  If the electricity goes away we can always use buckets I guess.  TP is overrated anyway, only a smear job.  I miss the bidet when back home in the US.  Heck even the shower heads are stuck way up there and can't be pulled down to properly wash the nether areas.  It's very hard to stand on your head in the shower trying to scrub..
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 11, 2020, 12:12:27 PM
I am still uncertain how exactly China 'manipulated' their numbers


Manipulation works like this. North Korea reports zero deaths and zero infections. They have presented to the world a look inside their nation that is different from reality. Even without test kits, lab tests from a culture sample of a live or dead person will reveal a new virus never seen before. So if a person isn't infected or died from the usual suspects, it's COVID-19.

There have been western media reports like the one below written a few days ago where hundreds died and thousands are quarantined in N Korea. I trust the witnesses that leaked the info more than North Korean government reports. The reports from the Italian government are trustworthy which gives us a realistic idea on how dangerous this virus is.

http://www.businessinsider.com/almost-200-north-korean-soldiers-died-coronavirus-2020-3

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 11, 2020, 12:16:12 PM
Maybe this is an exercise in futility

It is.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 11, 2020, 01:26:57 PM
I live in Austin Texas these days and they have a HUGE
music industry here with all sorts of festivals and things
like that.

One of those festivals is called South by South West and
it's pretty big. Along the same lines as Coachella and
Lollapalooza.

GQ will know about these festivals and a few others, but
those who don't know it's big over $600 million dollars
big. Tech companies come in for it and have conferences 
and catch a couple of shows.

It's been cancelled and the locals are bummed.

That's all I know

Udachi!

Bill


For those who want to learn something about South by Southwest
Website is here
http://www.sxsw.com/

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: IvanM07 on March 11, 2020, 01:34:39 PM
I live in Austin Texas these days and they have a HUGE
music industry here with all sorts of festivals and things
like that.

One of those festivals is called South by South West and
it's pretty big. Along the same lines as Coachella and
Lollapalooza.

GQ will know about these festivals and a few others, but
those who don't know it's big over $600 million dollars
big. Tech companies come in for it and have conferences 
and catch a couple of shows.

It's been cancelled and the locals are bummed.

That's all I know

Udachi!

Bill


For those who want to learn something about South by Southwest
Website is here
http://www.sxsw.com/

When I lived in Austin it was the year that Drunk Driver at SXSW took out a couple of pedestrians. I always hated driving during that period. An already congested road system became far worse.

I also saw the Mobile World Congress and E3 got cancelled too, both similar in cost to SXSW. Gonna be a hard hit for sure.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 11, 2020, 01:58:25 PM
I live in Austin Texas these days and they have a HUGE
music industry here with all sorts of festivals and things
like that.

One of those festivals is called South by South West and
it's pretty big. Along the same lines as Coachella and
Lollapalooza.

GQ will know about these festivals and a few others, but
those who don't know it's big over $600 million dollars
big. Tech companies come in for it and have conferences 
and catch a couple of shows.

It's been cancelled and the locals are bummed.

That's all I know

Udachi!

Bill


For those who want to learn something about South by Southwest
Website is here
http://www.sxsw.com/

On the one hand, I'd like to think it's a good thing until things simmer down a bit with this whole virus madness.

But OTOH, I feel for wifey because she's battled for the tix for my b-day since LAST YEAR. She was looking forward to this for two major reasons. One Leningrad was scheduled to play, and 2) Arroyo Seco Festival was already cancelled last summer because the natives of Pasadena were clamoring too much about noise control. Couldn't bear the possibility of missing both.

We're waiting to see the final commitment/line-up from the slew of performers to find out what the ultimate impact of the postponement is going to be.

It might still be OK since I'll be one of the few old farts in the festival anyway, and postponing it would be more beneficial for old farts like me than 99.9% of the expected crowd, hahah!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2020, 02:01:12 PM
In all fairness Italy was the first one the other day who published for the world to see the actual Mortality to Recovery rate. Before that the WHO were lying to the world.

Here I've just booked my yearly mandatory car MOT for next week. It was due it anyway near the beginning of April so might as well so it now. With a bit of luck I'll get in before the virus gets all over the place. If the MOT was to lapse  through not being able to get it done or to avoid the virus I would be stuck with no car to legally drive while the virus stuff goes on not least as car spares may get more difficult/expensive to obtain.

Cases are currently around 460 but I'm in Dorset at the moment at the family home. In Dorset it's stayed at 3 cases since two days ago. So I'm lucky that I'm not stuck in the more risky areas at least so far. So it's still an little uncertain how things will work out for the uk. We have the NHS so it will be interesting to see whether that will help keep the numbers down from the rocketing numbers we have seen in other countries.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 11, 2020, 02:13:10 PM
In all fairness Italy was the first one the other day who published for the world to see the actual Mortality to Recovery rate. Before that the WHO were lying to the world.


More Trench twaddle

Italy has NOT changed it's reporting methodology

As of yesterday ..12.4 k reported infections ...827 deaths   ...

Italy has the oldest population in Europe, with about 23% of residents 65 or older...  Most of the deaths are ppl in their 80's/ 90's



 

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 11, 2020, 02:28:04 PM
In all fairness Italy was the first one the other day who published for the world to see the actual Mortality to Recovery rate. Before that the WHO were lying to the world.


Italy recently reported numbers and they now have 827 dead to 724 recovered. The mortality rate is getting higher by the day. I hope they can reverse the trend. In all fairness to WHO, they were misled by the Chinese. China was the only country with a large enough sample pool to evaluate what was happening. At first it was believed this virus was no more dangerous than the flu. I'm not surprise we still see people not understanding how dangerous this is thanks to China. Although the overall mortality rate continues to go up, it's still heavily watered down by the Chinese numbers. People think it's sprinkling, not pouring, and don't think it's necessary to get onto Noah's Ark.

WHO is officially calling this event a pandemic and raised its health emergency level to it's highest level. Enjoy the ride.

http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/11/814474930/coronavirus-covid-19-is-now-officially-a-pandemic-who-says
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2020, 02:31:24 PM

More Trench twaddle

Italy has NOT changed it's reporting methodology

As of yesterday ..12.4 k reported infections ...827 deaths   ...

Italy has the oldest population in Europe, with about 23% of residents 65 or older...  Most of the deaths are ppl in their 80's/ 90's

And you get your 'most of the ppl are in their 80's/90's' data from where?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 11, 2020, 02:32:27 PM
Took a drive and met with some people today.  Here is what i've seen today.

---spoke with owner of a 100 million dollar equipment company.   "all is well" he says,   later spoke with warehouse worker, different story, he says 'we are running out of stuff', nothing new is coming in.  my thought is soon jobs will be gone. 

----a guy came by my shop today, bought a large item, we loaded into his truck....he had 60 rolls of TOILET PAPER in the back seat!  I told him the virus can be transmitted through toilet paper.  I learned that through GQ's link earlier today.   

---good buddy next shop over is drying up, about to call it quits, today asked me if I want to buy his forklift and big box truck.   

Just interesting observations at this point. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2020, 02:41:49 PM
Took a drive and met with some people today.  Here is what i've seen today.

---spoke with owner of a 100 million dollar equipment company.   "all is well" he says,   later spoke with warehouse worker, different story, he says 'we are running out of stuff', nothing new is coming in.  my thought is soon jobs will be gone. 

----a guy came by my shop today, bought a large item, we loaded into his truck....he had 60 rolls of TOILET PAPER in the back seat!  I told him the virus can be transmitted through toilet paper.  I learned that through GQ's link earlier today.   

---good buddy next shop over is drying up, about to call it quits, today asked me if I want to buy his forklift and big box truck.   

Just interesting observations at this point. 

Fathertime!

Indeed, at work I have decided to bring in my own toilet paper and tissues. I realised that everyone in the office will be putting their germs on it particularly after pulling off what they need. Not worth using the freely supplied stuff.

I think your observations are very apt Fathertime to the Global economic situation. If it's already that bad early on it could get pretty bad further down the line.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 11, 2020, 02:47:51 PM
I told him the virus can be transmitted through toilet paper. 


That's fake news. The virus can't live outside the body for very long and certainly can't breed on toilet paper. Viruses need a cell to breed in. Live viruses can be found in poo poo though. So if one reuses the toilet paper somebody else uses, it's possible they can catch the virus. I never reuse toilet paper with brown stains on them.

I went to out to eat pizza today. Owner said his business dropped 20%. He said an owner of a high end steak house said his business dropped 80%. People with money staying home more often? People saving their money for necessities?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 11, 2020, 02:48:19 PM
Indeed, at work I have decided to bring in my own toilet paper and tissues. I realised that everyone in the office will be putting their germs on it particularly after pulling off what they need. Not worth using the freely supplied stuff.

I think your observations are very apt Fathertime to the Global economic situation. If it's already that bad early on it could get pretty bad further down the line.

Trench, do  you mean you are still mixing with humanity ?  Are you 'mad' ?   It's a huge risk ...   ISOLATE

I took Ma to a dentist and she had her hair done, visited the local tip, popped into a grocers - to buy 2 kitchen rolls bread  and milk..

Not ONE person was wearing a mask - other than the Dentist and his assistant..


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 11, 2020, 03:10:08 PM
Indeed, at work I have decided to bring in my own toilet paper and tissues. I realised that everyone in the office will be putting their germs on it particularly after pulling off what they need. Not worth using the freely supplied stuff.

Well, you may as well be as diligent as you can under such circumstances. Get a foot long 2" rope with grip handles on both ends. Once done, just slid it between your legs, position between butt cheeks, then slide to/fro 3-4 times.

It comes on 3 types of braids, and four types of fiber (nylon, hemp, etc..), 9 different colors (neon green is cool, or *incognito brown* - reduces the amount of washing, etc..).

You'd be the envy of the masses. Chicks may even dig you after that,
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2020, 03:14:29 PM
Italy recently reported numbers and they now have 827 dead to 724 recovered. The mortality rate is getting higher by the day. I hope they can reverse the trend. In all fairness to WHO, they were misled by the Chinese. China was the only country with a large enough sample pool to evaluate what was happening. At first it was believed this virus was no more dangerous than the flu. I'm not surprise we still see people not understanding how dangerous this is thanks to China. Although the overall mortality rate continues to go up, it's still heavily watered down by the Chinese numbers. People think it's sprinkling, not pouring, and don't think it's necessary to get onto Noah's Ark.

WHO is officially calling this event a pandemic and raised its health emergency level to it's highest level. Enjoy the ride.

http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/11/814474930/coronavirus-covid-19-is-now-officially-a-pandemic-who-says

Sh*t Billy, I didn't realise the figures had suddenly gotten a lot worse. That's over 50 percent dead. I now seriously doubt they were all old, I'm guessing the odds are that some younger peeps immune systems are putting up a old fight but after a few weeks can't take it anymore, hence the delayed death rate, very much a trailing figure.

Yeah, I thought it silly for the WHO to tell us what we already know, that it's a pandemic. Yeah glad I put some preparation work in at least, with a mortality rate like that and a real ordeal if you get it, it's one I hope I duck.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 11, 2020, 03:32:10 PM
And you get your 'most of the ppl are in their 80's/90's' data from where?

An Italian... 

"Little is known yet about the deceased patients specifically, other than the fact that their median age is 81, the majority of the deceased are male, and in more than two-thirds of cases they had three or more pre-existing conditions.

This is according to the latest available data, released by Italy's Higher Health Institute (Istituto Superiore di Sanità, or ISS) on March 5, which is based on a preliminary study of 105 patients in Italy.

The study also showed a 20-year difference between the average age of the deceased patients, and that of the virus-positive patients in general.

"Although preliminary, these data confirm the observations made so far in the rest of the world on the main characteristics of patients, in particular on the fact that the elderly and people with pre-existing diseases are more at risk," commented ISS president Silvio Brusaferro.

"These are very fragile people who often live in close contact with others, and who we must protect as much as possible."
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2020, 03:32:50 PM
Trench, do  you mean you are still mixing with humanity ?  Are you 'mad' ?   It's a huge risk ...   ISOLATE

I took Ma to a dentist and she had her hair done, visited the local tip, popped into a grocers - to buy 2 kitchen rolls bread  and milk..

Not ONE person was wearing a mask - other than the Dentist and his assistant..

I know, now that I have heard Billy's update from Italy I would rather avoid the hug risk of humanity for the next few months. Despite my efforts mixing with others in the workplace means there are always the gormless who just don't get that we are 'supposed to be avoiding exchanging human contact and hence germs'. They still prefer to stick to old traditions as a matter of convention.

I have not started to wear a mask yet as the numbers/risk rate is not high enough yet to warrant it. Once the numbers start to rise though I'm all equiped :)

Can't afford to ditch the job yet but if it starts getting too risky I will. I just need a bit longer to sort out my present commitments.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: rwd123 on March 11, 2020, 03:37:38 PM
That's fake news. The virus can't live outside the body for very long and certainly can't breed on toilet paper. Viruses need a cell to breed in. Live viruses can be found in poo poo though. So if one reuses the toilet paper somebody else uses, it's possible they can catch the virus. I never reuse toilet paper with brown stains on them.
The virus cannot replicate without a host, but it seems it can survive several days on surfaces; in fecal matter close to a week - not good news for plumbers. In optimal conditions (for the virus) up to 9-10 days. It can also be present in the air for at least 30 minutes.

To minimize the risk of contracting the virus you need to cover your eyes/nose/mouth (yes, even improvized masks are worthwhile), frequently wash your hands thoroughly, and at least twice daily disinfect regularly used surfaces like benches, light switches, keyboards, etc.

Your best preparation is having a strong immune system to begin with - plenty of rest/sleep, low or no stress, lots of sun (vitamin D), cold showers, exercise, good diet, no smoking, etc.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) I have prior commitments in Russia so will be using a face mask and protective eye wear in airports and on planes. It is risk reduction not risk elimination. I'll also take stuff like vitamins/minerals and elderberry syrup... but the virus is endemic now so it will eventually enter your community.

The bigger health risk will be economic collapse / depression and ensuing fallout/panic so a complete shut down probably isn't in any way viable.

Obviously the perfect time to visit FSUW before Vlad and others close the borders... you'll get all the women to yourself!  :P

msmob - as this is a respiratory disease smokers are hit hard. It's reasonable to suggest this is why men have been impacted more than women, particularly elderly men. It may also be why those in Wuhan and other parts of China were at such great risk (air pollution).
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 11, 2020, 03:42:43 PM


Can't afford to ditch the job yet but if it starts getting too risky I will. I just need a bit longer to sort out my present commitments.

Hmm, not what you've told us, before ... You need to check your previous ' Trench, my plan to get a FSU W' posts ..

You should be quitting your job and building a wall - to protect your stock of toilet rolls
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 11, 2020, 03:46:33 PM
 
Italy just updated their recoveries to 1,045 and now recoveries is ahead of deaths. It'll probably go back and forth. Don't know why they aren't reporting both categories at the same time.

Trump announce he'll speak to the nation tonight 9 PM eastern time. Maybe he'll say this virus is mortality rate is higher than previous estimates without freaking people out too much. He does have a responsibility to protect the economy. Causing panic is not productive. I also predict he'll offer help to businesses. Many small business can't maintain a 20% loss of sales for an extended period of time.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2020, 03:56:17 PM
Things are not going well in Italy:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51845817
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2020, 04:03:25 PM
Just heard on the radio that apparently Boris is expected to announce moving to the second stage of delaying the virus tomorrow. This could include closing schools and banning large public gatherings.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 11, 2020, 04:10:01 PM
That's fake news. The virus can't live outside the body for very long and certainly can't breed on toilet paper.
wait a minute, you mean GQ was playing a joke on me!   I just got through burning my entire supply of TP.

Fathertime!   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 11, 2020, 04:14:12 PM
Things are not going well in Italy:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51845817

Damn. All shops and restaurants will be closed except food stores and pharmacies. A lot of business owners will go out of business.

People should watch the video in the link. The Director General of WHO in the video said he's deeply concerned about the alarming levels of spread, severity and alarming levels of inaction. A lot of people and governments out there still think this virus isn't much more dangerous than the flu. Thank you China for educating us early on with your fake reports that imply it's weak stuff.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2020, 04:32:07 PM
Damn. All shops and restaurants will be closed except food stores and pharmacies. A lot of business owners will go out of business.

People should watch the video in the link. The Director General of WHO in the video said he's deeply concerned about the alarming levels of spread, severity and alarming levels of inaction. A lot of people and governments out there still think this virus isn't much more dangerous than the flu. Thank you China for educating us early on with your fake reports that imply it's weak stuff.

Indeed, I think a lot of people won't change their ways unless forced as they just see it as too much bother. We need to at least build in more methods of not needing to touch everything, move more to sensors like in some lavatory taps and automatic air dryers etc.

Apparently the UK is potentially only about two weeks or so from a lockdown situation like Italy. So we either sort it now or end up in a ghetto like situation.

I think you're right Billy, Italy will be hit by the ravages of a failing economy and unfortunately BC could soon be in for a shock, I certainly am not envying him at the moment, swimming pool or not.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 11, 2020, 04:43:39 PM
LOL... I guess we'll be spared from the Great TP War here as most here have a bidet available with TP used only as a pre-wash wipe..  Heck, we even have a well if public water goes out.  If the electricity goes away we can always use buckets I guess.  TP is overrated anyway, only a smear job.  I miss the bidet when back home in the US.  Heck even the shower heads are stuck way up there and can't be pulled down to properly wash the nether areas.  It's very hard to stand on your head in the shower trying to scrub..


Oh wow! You mean they haven't yet offered topless bathing Beauts services that scrub you down good in Italy?


BC, how the heck can you use the bidet without feeling a little...well, squirmish, or worst, bust up laughing.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: IvanM07 on March 11, 2020, 04:46:56 PM
Indeed, I think a lot of people won't change their ways unless forced as they just see it as too much bother. We need to at least build in more methods of not needing to touch everything, move more to sensors like in some lavatory taps and automatic air dryers etc.

Apparently the UK is potentially only about two weeks or so from a lockdown situation like Italy. So we either sort it now or end up in a ghetto like situation.

I think you're right Billy, Italy will be hit by the ravages of a failing economy and unfortunately BC could soon be in for a shock, I certainly am not envying him at the moment, swimming pool or not.

This is if course armchair plague, inc. But I feel like the US might not feel the effects as bad. I know paid healthcare blah blah, but firstly, the major insurance companies waived the copays for testing. Secondly. Look at an apartment or neighborhood of the US and compare that to Europe or China. Notice anything? The distance. Anyone been to Disney with a ton of Chinese? No concept of personal space. My house is about 400 yards in either direction from the next house. My old apartment complex houses 300 people for 6 stories and an entire block on Austin. It won't be as bad besides SF, LA, NYC, Boston, etc.


Edit: jesus fu*k I thought it was just a joke with people joking about prepping hardcore. Then I have a friend in Indiana post this sh*t. SMDH. What are you gonna do with 40 rolls of tp *face palm*
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2020, 05:10:51 PM
Question is, is Italy's response the correct response? How is shuttering  businesses going to serve Italy in the long run?

More damage may be caused by doing this than by the virus itself. Hordes of unemployed plus of course the illegal immigrants already there could turn into a devastating situation for Italy. Rampaging riots and society falling apart could indeed be the outcome.

I'm afraid that other countries might follow suit thinking Italy has the right answer, I don't think they do.

I certainly wouldn't go beyond the previous lockdown situation. If the virus just affects the elderly with pre-existing conditions then they would be best to all isolate themselves and hope for the best. If the virus spreads it spreads, don't worry about it and let matters take their course. Otherwise it's saving some old people who have little time left anyway and buggering over the younger generations who will be left with a recked economy.

That said of course, if a lot of the younger generation require stays in hospital in order to survive it then if the numbers rise too high for beds available then that could have a a pretty dire outcome.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: IvanM07 on March 11, 2020, 05:41:11 PM
Question is, is Italy's response the correct response? How is shuttering  businesses going to serve Italy in the long run?

More damage may be caused by doing this than by the virus itself. Hordes of unemployed plus of course the illegal immigrants already there could turn into a devastating situation for Italy. Rampaging riots and society falling apart could indeed be the outcome.

I'm afraid that other countries might follow suit thinking Italy has the right answer, I don't think they do.

I certainly wouldn't go beyond the previous lockdown situation. If the virus just affects the elderly with pre-existing conditions then they would be best to all isolate themselves and hope for the best. If the virus spreads it spreads, don't worry about it and let matters take their course. Otherwise it's saving some old people who have little time left anyway and buggering over the younger generations who will be left with a recked economy.

That said of course, if a lot of the younger generation require stays in hospital in order to survive it then if the numbers rise too high for beds available then that could have a a pretty dire outcome.


Most folks say Merkel was giving a worst case scenario. I'm a Trump supporter everyone knows that from the Pol threads, but I know he will recommend businesses stay open. He has been staking his presidency (among other positives) on the Economy, of which he has done a terrific job!


That said, there is a difference from European/American Norms than Chinese. As I said I remember in 2015 being crowded by 35 Chinese. Hell Ralphie May has a bit about it! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPLIcQU0s_U


As an aside, has anyone been tracking the curious tendencies of the virus? Specifically to spare younger children?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/10/coronavirus-is-mysteriously-sparing-kids-killing-elderly-understanding-why-may-help-defeat-virus/

No evidence there, it's just popping up several times and I thought it was curious.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 11, 2020, 05:44:30 PM
One lady had a whole shopping cart full of toilet paper. All those ladies have pretty big butts to wipe though. Hope they get the virus under control. Humanity is only 3 meals away from total anarchy.
Mgmnt should have placed a 2 ply two package limit sign to keep the peace.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 11, 2020, 05:47:29 PM
Apparently the UK is potentially only about two weeks or so from a lockdown situation like Italy. So we either sort it now or end up in a ghetto like situation.


UK numbers have slowly gone up but it's going up faster and faster and may explode soon.

Stay positive and keep thinking you're going to survive and in the end, there will be two women for every man.

Question is, is Italy's response the correct response? How is shuttering  businesses going to serve Italy in the long run?


It's extreme to shut down businesses and restrict movement but I think it is the right thing to do. Not doing enough is worse than doing too much. The virus must be stopped, period. Economies can't function while this virus is wrecking havoc unchecked. Quarantines will work. Let's say your city has a high rate of infection. The government locks down your city. They get everybody checked out and put all those infected into another quarantine keeping them away from the population which can in then function normally within their quarantine. After a month or two, the virus will be burned out. Those infected would beat the virus or die but the virus will not exist in the city. The quarantine can be lifted and everybody can function normally until you have another outbreak.

The country of San Marino is within Italy's borders and 1 out of every 550 citizens there are infected with the virus. They are worse off than Italy.

I'm a Trump supporter everyone knows that from the Pol threads, but I know he will recommend businesses stay open. He has been staking his presidency (among other positives) on the Economy, of which he has done a terrific job!


America is very different all over. We've got heavily populated areas and rural areas. We have different virus cases scenarios all over the place. A one size solution will not fit for all like what Italy is doing. Trump will allow States and local governments make their own decisions first before he tells them what to do. If States and local governments feel a need to shut down businesses, he shouldn't stop them but provide financial help to those who are suffering financial loses. 15 more minutes and Trump will speak to the nation.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 11, 2020, 05:48:27 PM
Question is, is Italy's response the correct response? 
For a short term maybe yes.
The Koreans seem to be getting the upper hand by massive sanitizing.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 11, 2020, 05:53:04 PM
The Koreans seem to be getting the upper hand by massive sanitizing.
but I just read on the internet that the virus is hiding within the hand sanitizer now.

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 11, 2020, 06:18:35 PM

Trump announced starting this Friday he will suspend all flights to and from Europe for 30 days, UK excluded. Trump said his quick action to suspend flights from China early was beneficial to our nation and the failure of Europe to suspend flights was wrong and the spread of the virus in America is coming from Europe.

Trump said Americans health is priority and he will help those financially hurt by the virus. Based on his proposals, he will provide over 50 billion dollars work of assistance.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 11, 2020, 06:30:24 PM
WTF is wrong with ya’all?
have you all gone insane?

the key to surviving the apocalypse is right there in the data in plain sight!!!!
in the Wuhan statistics....

only 2.3 % of the people who contacted the disease, were age 18 or YOUNGER!!!!
and the younger you are, the less severe the disease will be...

so just hire some beautiful 18 year old Russian girls
to be your personal shoppers
and in exchange for supporting them financially...
they will provide you with food or ANYTHING ELSE YOU NEED!!!

guys who can self quarantine on a nice sized boat at the marina, will freakin have it made
as long as ya got plenty of groceries from the magazine and plenty of cash

I actually prefer to be left alone by Russians anyway unless they're staricks who were like in Stalingrad or something...
but that experience will never happen to me again, I know sadly...

so yeah, interviewing deavotchkie again...
I feel like disinfected blonds this time





Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 11, 2020, 06:49:11 PM
NBA has suspended the season,after player tested positive for the virus,  Tom Hanks has got corona virus.  My daughter's college just stated no more classes after Friday...everything to be done online.   Now lets see how long the shelves stay stocked at the stores.

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2020, 06:53:12 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51846923

Yep :D Hear that Mobe, the US is banning flights from the EU, the E f*cking U. Trump rightly reckonises that's it's the EU's fault that it has acted to slowly and once again incompetently in taking action to tackle the virus within its member states.

Now fortunately we have left the EU which has both helped us to deal with the situation better hence he far lower number of infections than EU members and means we aren't subject to the EU travel ban :D
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: mhr7 on March 11, 2020, 06:56:31 PM
Trump announced starting this Friday he will suspend all flights to and from Europe for 30 days, UK excluded. Trump said his quick action to suspend flights from China early was beneficial to our nation and the failure of Europe to suspend flights was wrong and the spread of the virus in America is coming from Europe.

Trump said Americans health is priority and he will help those financially hurt by the virus. Based on his proposals, he will provide over 50 billion dollars work of assistance.

He only suspended flights from Europe not to Europe.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: IvanM07 on March 11, 2020, 07:03:00 PM
He only suspended flights from Europe not to Europe.

We'll see how long that lasts ;)

Love it.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: mhr7 on March 11, 2020, 07:03:42 PM
The virus can't live outside the body for very long

It can live outside the body for up to 9 days depending on the conditions.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 11, 2020, 07:09:42 PM
He only suspended flights from Europe not to Europe.


You are correct. That is a good thing so European tourists currently in America can finish their vacation and get back home. I wonder how American tourists are going to get back home. The few planes that will fly before the ban will take effect may not have enough seats for the mass wanting to get home.

Also, I wonder why Trump gave the UK an exception to the ban. Does he know that UK's infection rate is and will remain much lower than other European nations?

It can live outside the body for up to 9 days depending on the conditions.


Another sign this is a super virus.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 11, 2020, 07:21:45 PM

Also, I wonder why Trump gave the UK an exception to the ban. Does he know that UK's infection rate is and will remain much lower than other European nations?
 
probably politics of some sort,  or he wants a favor, or he wants to further promote the separation of europe and the UK. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 11, 2020, 07:27:05 PM
probably politics of some sort,  or he wants a favor, or he wants to further promote the separation of europe and the UK. 

Fathertime!

FT, I think we are beyond politics now. This is about saving American lives. If we see a spike in UK's infections, Trump will ban flights from the UK. If America's infections spike uncontrollably, I expect all of Europe to ban flights from America.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: IvanM07 on March 11, 2020, 07:29:56 PM
FT, I think we are beyond politics now. This is about saving American lives. If we see a spike in UK's infections, Trump will ban flights from the UK. If America's infections spike uncontrollably, I expect all of Europe to ban flights from America.

You can't be beyond politics with TDS. ;(

However I 100% agree. All or nothing approach even with May being when I see my daughter.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 11, 2020, 07:39:05 PM
  Trump will ban flights from the UK. 
I believe he did tonite...to/from Europe.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 11, 2020, 07:41:51 PM
FT, I think we are beyond politics now. This is about saving American lives. If we see a spike in UK's infections, Trump will ban flights from the UK. If America's infections spike uncontrollably, I expect all of Europe to ban flights from America.
I'd think we would be beyond politics, yet it is odd to exclude the UK so I suspect Trump is thinking ahead a couple steps, and gambling.   It makes no sense to leave them off the list except if you are looking at it through an angle other than the potential risk to americans.   

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 11, 2020, 08:18:00 PM
US travelers will now face 2 weeks isolation when travelling to South American nation of Argentina.  Colombia and Peru also banning arrivals from certain nations.   

Argentina, Colombia, Peru to isolate travelers from virus-hit nations 

Argentina, Colombia and Peru on Wednesday announced that travelers from the countries worst-affected by the new coronavirus would be isolated on arrival.

Argentina was the first country in Latin America to register a coronavirus-related death on Saturday, with Panama announcing another on Tuesday.

Buenos Aires announced a two-week isolation period for people arriving from China, Italy, France, Germany, Spain, Japan, South Korea and the United States.

"This is not voluntary, it's not a recommendation. If you don't.....


 http://www.yahoo.com/news/argentina-colombia-peru-isolate-travelers-virus-hit-nations-155304344.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/argentina-colombia-peru-isolate-travelers-virus-hit-nations-155304344.html)

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 11, 2020, 08:33:43 PM

NBA player got the virus and the NBA suspended the season.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/nba-suspending-season-after-wednesday-nights-games-until-further-notice-because-of-the-coronavirus-concerns/ar-BB114bRv?ocid=spartanntp

Tom Hanks, currently filming in Australia, got the virus.

http://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tom-hanks-wife-rita-wilson-012115497.html

Trench got the virus and RWD suspends all posting.

fakenews.com
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Brillynt on March 11, 2020, 09:04:41 PM
I was reading more of the articles and it is not flights that are banned, people from EU countries are banned, US citizens, legal residents ... are allowed to return during the 30 days. It depends if the airlines start doing massive cancellations.  Unfortunately I am currently in Ukraine and I am scheduled to return in 2 weeks.  I tried calling Lufthansa and received a recorded message saying please call back due to extreme call volume and the call was terminated.  It should be interesting to see what happens.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 11, 2020, 10:09:37 PM
I was reading more of the articles and it is not flights that are banned, people from EU countries are banned, US citizens, legal residents ... are allowed to return during the 30 days. It depends if the airlines start doing massive cancellations.  Unfortunately I am currently in Ukraine and I am scheduled to return in 2 weeks.  I tried calling Lufthansa and received a recorded message saying please call back due to extreme call volume and the call was terminated.  It should be interesting to see what happens.

Ukraine is not on the sh!t list. Found the information in the link below from those in charge of the border. Even non Europeans travelling though certain European countries would be refused entry into America. The ban does not apply to Legal permanent residents and American citizens as you mentioned. So your only worry now is if the airline will cancel your flight due to lack of passengers. My guess is they'll cancel some flights and put those passengers on another flight that isn't cancelled to make a full plane. Keep in mind, you won't be flying until 2 weeks from now. If more European nations have uncontrollable outbreaks like Italy is having, flights throughout Europe may be restricted. If offered to come home sooner, you may want to consider it.

http://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11/homeland-security-acting-secretary-chad-f-wolf-s-statement-presidential-proclamation
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Brillynt on March 11, 2020, 10:39:49 PM
Ukraine is not on the sh!t list. Found the information in the link below from those in charge of the border. Even non Europeans travelling though certain European countries would be refused entry into America. The ban does not apply to Legal permanent residents and American citizens as you mentioned. So your only worry now is if the airline will cancel your flight due to lack of passengers. My guess is they'll cancel some flights and put those passengers on another flight that isn't cancelled to make a full plane. Keep in mind, you won't be flying until 2 weeks from now. If more European nations have uncontrollable outbreaks like Italy is having, flights throughout Europe may be restricted. If offered to come home sooner, you may want to consider it.

http://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11/homeland-security-acting-secretary-chad-f-wolf-s-statement-presidential-proclamation

Billy, Thanks for the link and the suggestions.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 11, 2020, 11:55:42 PM
My, 'Trampu' is banning folks who are not US nationals ( or have residency for the US) from flying to the US if a Schegen passport holder...


But he has excluded NON Schengen nations?

'Great'....

What is to stop Marcel from France....or Marcello from Italy arriving in the UK or IRL and flying to the US?

Cluebat: They are not stamped in to the UK/ IRL.

Perhaps, those two nations share immigration data?...

OK...

Marios from Cyprus..

He is not Schengen, but an EU passport holder....

He was in Italy within the last 14 days and came via the the UK to the US..

I seriously doubt the US shares data with Cyprus.

If someone wants to circumvent this ban...I see lots of ways they might..



It is illogical.




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 12, 2020, 12:10:28 AM
My, 'Trampu' is banning folks who are not US nationals ( or have residency for the US) from flying to the US if a Sche gen passport holder...


But he has excluded NON Schengen nations?

'Great'....

What is to stop Marcel from France....or Marcello from Italy arriving in the UK or IRL and flying to the US?

Cluebat: They are not stamped in to the UK/ IRL.

Perhaps, those two nations share immigration data?...

OK...

Marios from Cyprus..

He is not Schengen, but an EU passport holder....

He was in Italy within the last 14 days and came via the the UK to the US..

I seriously doubt the US shares data with Cyprus.

If someone wants to circumvent this ban...I see lots of ways they might..



It is illogical.

Most won't bother to try & circumvent it. The passport holders country of origin is shown on the front of the passport. Odds are those from EU member states will be rejected entry on arrival in the US.

Italy is likely to close all flights in & out soon. They are going downhill fast on this one. Glad I'm not stuck in Italy, just wait until things turn ugly there.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 12, 2020, 12:42:42 AM
Trench,

If you mean where they were born..it should be meaningless.

SC was born in what is now Tadjikistan..

She has not been back there for more than half her life...

Your post up thread demonstrated further cluelessness.

Be a good boy and observe and learn rather than feeling the need to prove to most of us your 'knowledge' of border 'control'..




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: IvanM07 on March 12, 2020, 12:52:46 AM
Trench,

If you mean where they were born..it should be meaningless.

SC was born in what is now Tadjikistan..

She has not been back there for more than half her life...

Your post up thread demonstrated further cluelessness.

Be a good boy and observe and learn rather than feeling the need to prove to most of us your 'knowledge' of border 'control'..

Well thank the stars above for you, hero!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 12, 2020, 01:30:08 AM
Reckon this move by Trump & hence the US could push some airlines to go under.

Still think off all that carbon saving, no whinging from environmentalists there for a while :D
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: IvanM07 on March 12, 2020, 01:38:41 AM
Reckon this move by Trump & hence the US could push some airlines to go under.

Still think off all that carbon saving, no whinging from environmentalists there for a while :D

 Honestly think of you and trump was the same as you moobs, nothing worse than flu lol. Imagine you without TDS! What a wonderful world.....
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 12, 2020, 01:40:59 AM
Our 'Ivan' doesn't even pay attention as to who is posting ... before 'responding' to 'me' ... :popcorn:
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 12, 2020, 02:20:02 AM
Pretty funny.... the President of the country that has done the least amount of testing and has been the least proactive with concrete measures, declares other countries are 'behind the ball' and are the cause of the problem in the US.





Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 12, 2020, 06:00:57 AM
Pretty funny.... the President of the country that has done the least amount of testing and has been the least proactive with concrete measures, declares other countries are 'behind the ball' and are the cause of the problem in the US.

BC, you should worry about how the government of Italy handled things before it got out of control. When it's over, we will learn if America or Europe has higher rate of infections.

Trump ordered or border patrol to document where each passenger entering USA where they been. After detecting those who are infected, it was determine our infections are coming from Europe, not China. Europe should've banned flights from China early on instead of trusting China and WHO's recommendation travel to and from China is fine.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 12, 2020, 06:08:25 AM
Quick tour around town this morning.

Farmers, construction folks, and most folks that work outside doing their normal 'thing'.  Busses running normally except for school that have been cancelled due to school closures.

Pharmacy getting regular deliveries twice a day including oxygen and all meds except hand sanitizer.

Cigarette store getting regular deliveries, but some brands are a bit short because folks are buying cartons instead of packs to limit trips to the store.

Grocery store, 8-10 people waiting patiently outside for folks inside to get done with their shopping.  Meat store, bakery and the veggie stand all open and stocked.

Two kids and mom hanging large rainbow banners on the front of their fence that state 'It's all going to be ok" - the highlight of the trip.

Traffic in town is light, seems like it's a Sunday, many wearing masks some even when driving or walking around, folks maintaining distances.

An eBay package mailed Tuesday afternoon from Rome being delivered today, normal transit time.

No control or police checkpoints seen.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 12, 2020, 06:19:14 AM
BC, you should worry about how the government of Italy handled things before it got out of control. When it's over, we will learn if America or Europe has higher rate of infections.

Trump ordered or border patrol to document where each passenger entering USA where they been. After detecting those who are infected, it was determine our infections are coming from Europe, not China. Europe should've banned flights from China early on instead of trusting China and WHO's recommendation travel to and from China is fine.

BillyB,

1/ Once again, I remind you that Italy banned flights from China LONG ago ( Jan 31st )

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-10/italy-s-hopes-for-closer-china-ties-hit-by-virus-flight-ban-rift (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-10/italy-s-hopes-for-closer-china-ties-hit-by-virus-flight-ban-rift)

2/ Italy has been testing FAR more of it's population FOR the virus than the USA..

It really IS time to stop posting like some deluded 'patriot' and get real..   

Italy has been FAR more proactive than the US ... and it STILL has a big problem










Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 12, 2020, 06:32:41 AM
Pretty funny.... the President of the country that has done the least amount of testing and has been the least proactive with concrete measures, declares other countries are 'behind the ball' and are the cause of the problem in the US.
Your chart is very damning of the US system. 

Our blame game always starts with us pointing fingers, practically never do we accept that we are doing things wrong here in the USA.  We criticize other nation's health systems yet in a time of crisis, we don't have the capacity to serve our own populace as evidenced by the chart. 

Fathertime! 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 12, 2020, 06:36:09 AM
Billy,

there is nothing more dangerous than ignorance, not being able to test is ignorance.  Not even knowing how many have been tested is bordering on criminal, not even the President knows.  Fact is that Coronavus was present in Europe and the US at pretty much the same time, around 20 January when the first cases were confirmed.  You just don't know how bad it is there yet because of the lack of testing.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 12, 2020, 06:39:37 AM
BillyB,

1/ Once again, I remind you that Italy banned flight from China LONG ago ( Jan 31st )

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-10/italy-s-hopes-for-closer-china-ties-hit-by-virus-flight-ban-rift (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-10/italy-s-hopes-for-closer-china-ties-hit-by-virus-flight-ban-rift)

2/ Italy has been testing FAR more of it's population FOR the virus than the USA..

It really IS time to stop posting like some deluded 'patriot' and get real..   

Italy has been FAR more proactive than the US ... and it STILL has a big problem

Banning flights is not enough. Got to ban individuals passing through China like Trump did. Anyone been in China can fly to another country and then fly to Italy. Funny to see criticizing Trump doing a worse job than the Italian government and try to rationalize why. Why not criticize China? Don’t they get some blame? They knew what was going on more than anybody so they should have banned flights first to save your lives but they prefer to do business.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 12, 2020, 06:41:20 AM
Stock Market circuit breaker flipped again, closed after about 6 minutes this morning. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 12, 2020, 06:41:41 AM
You folks are just too funny sometimes. Your silly envy definitely blinds you from screaming realities. With all your feel good theories, the reality today is italy’s current DEATH count is at 827, with serious/critical conditions at 1,028. The US comparables are at 38 & 10. These numbers doesn’t remotely support all your silly ASSertion.

Stop all these stupid nonsense. There are times when all these BS need to take a rest for a while.

Trump’s speech last night was spot on despite offending that silly European Commission spokesperson’s stupid sensibilities.

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Now this comparison would be worst if you compared EU vs US. So stop peddling nonsense already.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 12, 2020, 06:53:03 AM
I don't trust hannity's judgement, but I wish he were right on this one. 
To the question though, I'd say a lot of his listeners believe as he does, but not enough to stem the stock market panic. 

If Sean Hannity Thinks Coronavirus Panic Is a 'Hoax,' How Many Millions of His Listeners Do Too?

Sean Hannity used his syndicated talk-radio program Wednesday to share a prediction he had found on Twitter about what is really happening with the coronavirus: It’s a “fraud” by the deep state to spread panic in the populace, manipulate the economy and suppress dissent.

“May be true,” Hannity declared to millions of listeners around the country.

As the coronavirus spreads around the globe, denial and disinformation about the risks are proliferating on media outlets popular with conservatives.

“This coronavirus?” Rush Limbaugh asked skeptically during his Wednesday program. “All of this panic is just not warranted.”.....


  http://www.yahoo.com/news/sean-hannity-thinks-coronavirus-panic-120516477.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/sean-hannity-thinks-coronavirus-panic-120516477.html)

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 12, 2020, 06:53:35 AM
BillyB,

1/ Once again, I remind you that Italy banned flights from China LONG ago ( Jan 31st )

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-10/italy-s-hopes-for-closer-china-ties-hit-by-virus-flight-ban-rift (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-10/italy-s-hopes-for-closer-china-ties-hit-by-virus-flight-ban-rift)

2/ Italy has been testing FAR more of it's population FOR the virus than the USA..

It really IS time to stop posting like some deluded 'patriot' and get real..   

Italy has been FAR more proactive than the US ... and it STILL has a big problem

Italy has had FAR more reason to test FAR more of it's population than the USA. Your entire statement here is "BOLLOCKS"

The USA has been very proactive. 5 months ago nobody had heard of this virus. I suppose Trump should have been testing then? That answer is no. That was the height of the flu season in the US. If Italy had been testing then they wouldn't have the problem they have now. Italy has taken the steps they deem necessary to slow this thing down within their borders. Their infectious rate has gotten them to the point where they now. They haven't by any means been FAR more proactive than anywhere else. They, like everywhere are are doing what they feel they must do for the situation they have.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 12, 2020, 07:02:26 AM
'Mr Mistake',

Why must you fall over yourself in haste to prove inattentiveness / ignorance ?

Fact is you simply do not know how many cases you've had in the US..

@GCB I'm not sure what 'envy' I or others (should?) have re the US ..given 'we are all in the same boat'...

'Patriotic' STUPIDITY is certainly endemic, today

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 12, 2020, 07:08:00 AM
Italy has had FAR more reason to test FAR more of it's population than the USA.

Indeed.  The only reason Italy is testing far more of its population is because it can, something that has not yet been possible in the US in any quantity.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on March 12, 2020, 07:08:47 AM
One week ago today, I flew home through S Korea. In Korea, they checked my passport to see if I went to Iran or China in the past 14 days. They did not check for Italy. I was put on a plane from an EMPTY Incheon airport to a bustling Atlanta airport. In Atlanta, there was no health screening, but passport control did review my passport. Once again, was not asked about Italy

So whatever it is about the Italian strain, its only recently became a reason for drastic measures
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 12, 2020, 07:20:10 AM
'Mr Mistake',

Why must you fall over yourself in haste to prove inattentiveness / ignorance ?

Fact is you simply do not know how many cases you've had in the US..

@GCB I'm not sure what 'envy' I or others (should?) have re the US ..given 'we are all in the same boat'...

'Patriotic' STUPIDITY is certainly endemic, today


Predictable. When presented with facts, the resident Peewee Herman comes in with his usual deflecting debating habit.

I gave you Euro stooges facts on the current reality of coronavirus. You can ignore the FACTUAL numbers above and just pretend you actually have a point. Fine by me. We expect this from you blokes.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 12, 2020, 07:50:42 AM
An Italian guy goes to the doc with a cough, gets a test, results are positive, is sent to quarantine so can't infect others.

An American guy goes to the doc with a cough and fever, does not get tested and sent home with aspirin and told to drink lots of liquids.

Repeat 75000 times.

Italy has a huge number of confirmed cases.. Over 10,000 and counting that's a problem.

USA has no confirmed cases.. obviously, the USA does not have a problem.

Like the commercial with rug covered showers and folks finger dipping salsa, 'That ain't right'

But the problem isn't even that..  A large number of those in the US won't even go to the doctor in the first place because of the cost / copay.  They will go to work instead and 'tough it out' so the bills get paid, infecting others along the way.  Of course, they don't get counted.

Door number 1 China and 2 Italy are open, everyone can see what's inside.  Door 3, USA still stays with the curtain drawn, but there are those that will insist 'Ain't no problem behind the curtain'.

Oh well, par for the course around here.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 12, 2020, 07:52:26 AM
'Mr Mistake',

Why must you fall over yourself in haste to prove inattentiveness / ignorance ?

Fact is you simply do not know how many cases you've had in the US..

@GCB I'm not sure what 'envy' I or others (should?) have re the US ..given 'we are all in the same boat'...

'Patriotic' STUPIDITY is certainly endemic, today

Moobs,
You're just a moron to such epic proportion that no kit ever could detect just how much of a moron you really are. Fact is, nobody knows how many cases there are in the US or anywhere else. There is nothing patriotic in my post. Just the fact that measures by every nation or regions are taken by need. The measures taken by China or Italy haven't been needed in the USA. You're lunatic fringe leaning leftist mind will not permit you to see the realities of any situation. No, only the need to point fingers and blame someone. Other than yourself of course.

You have bought into the panic full bore. You're a moron
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 12, 2020, 08:01:27 AM
An Italian guy goes to the doc with a cough, gets a test, results are positive, is sent to quarantine so can't infect others.

An American guy goes to the doc with a cough and fever, does not get tested and sent home with aspirin and told to drink lots of liquids.

Repeat 75000 times.

Italy has a huge number of confirmed cases.. Over 10,000 and counting that's a problem.

USA has no confirmed cases.. obviously, the USA does not have a problem.

Like the commercial with rug covered showers and folks finger dipping salsa, 'That ain't right'

But the problem isn't even that..  A large number of those in the US won't even go to the doctor in the first place because of the cost / copay.  They will go to work instead and 'tough it out' so the bills get paid, infecting others along the way.  Of course, they don't get counted.

Door number 1 China and 2 Italy are open, everyone can see what's inside.  Door 3, USA still stays with the curtain drawn, but there are those that will insist 'Ain't no problem behind the curtain'.

Oh well, par for the course around here.

I think you're wrong. The virus hadn't had a chance to infect as many in the US as it did in Italy as fast as it did. Your information on the healthcare situation in the US is also wrong. There is no curtain on the US. Folks with corona symptoms are not avoiding the doctors. There are test kits. The virus panic has been taken very serious.

It is odd though BC that you believe communist China is transparent and that your own birthright the USA is hiding something. If I were you I'd question your sources
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 12, 2020, 08:16:22 AM
FP

whether or not there was enough time for spread in the US is unknown if only few with symptoms are getting tested.  I never said the US is hiding anything, just that folks are hanging on words that are unproven.

Does Italy have a problem? Yes.  Does China have a problem? Yes.  That's what doors 1 and 2 represent.  Door 3 is closed, no one knows what's hiding or not with many here stating that the facts don't prove the US has a problem.

Does China test? yes. Does Italy test? yes. Does the US test?  only those that go to a hospital that can test and are quite sick to begin with along with a few that arrive on flights that art noted with symptoms.  Ergo the only thing that can be proven is that the problem comes from 'elsewhere' and only a few are affected in the US.

It is pretty simple.

IOW it's an 'if you can't prove it you're wrong' debate that of course can go nowhere.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 12, 2020, 08:21:59 AM
An Italian guy goes to the doc with a cough, gets a test, results are positive, is sent to quarantine so can't infect others.

An American guy goes to the doc with a cough and fever, does not get tested and sent home with aspirin and told to drink lots of liquids.

Repeat 75000 times.

Italy has a huge number of confirmed cases.. Over 10,000 and counting that's a problem.

USA has no confirmed cases.. obviously, the USA does not have a problem.

Like the commercial with rug covered showers and folks finger dipping salsa, 'That ain't right'

But the problem isn't even that..  A large number of those in the US won't even go to the doctor in the first place because of the cost / copay.  They will go to work instead and 'tough it out' so the bills get paid, infecting others along the way.  Of course, they don't get counted.

Door number 1 China and 2 Italy are open, everyone can see what's inside.  Door 3, USA still stays with the curtain drawn, but there are those that will insist 'Ain't no problem behind the curtain'.

Oh well, par for the course around here.

Well, at least you try.... the 'other' bloke conveniently disappeared.

Anyway...your attempt fails. It really doesn't matter if there were only 10 test kits in the US. The actual numbers above were specifically shown to get in the heart of the matter.

Death AND critical/serious condition cases. If your point has an ounce of merit that somehow Italy is far more superior and efficient, then why are your people dying far more, and many more in dire condition?

It gets even more ridiculous if you add the combined number for your chosen Union, with all its superior leaderships, compared to our Union. These numbers become far more BLATANTLY counter to your claim, no?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 12, 2020, 08:37:03 AM
GQ,

We know that the coronavirus primarily kills those that are older and have underlying conditions.  Italy has a number of elderly that is roughly twice that of other countries.

France, Germany, Spain each show at least double the number the US has reported. Those countries have done less testing than Italy, but still far more than the US.

My 'intent fails'??  Again I am only posting what I see.  It's up to you to decide what you want to 'see'.  I'm not gonna twist your arm.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 12, 2020, 08:43:23 AM
The 'other bloke' made his dear Ma lunch and prepared a Roast Dinner for 6 guests as he prepares to hand over care to his siblings..

Strange that a need to do something FAR more important than engage with strange chaps from the internet... who put 'patriotism' before common sense and awkward facts should think a 'delay' in response is some sort of 'surrender'... Ah well such is 'fora life'...

The Guardian puts it very well...for those still in touch with reality..

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/11/donald-trump-us-coronavirus-address (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/11/donald-trump-us-coronavirus-address)

Too little, too late?...Blaming others... Failure to ban non Schengen Euro nations with serious issues re the virus spreading...

You simply could NOT make this farce up....

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 12, 2020, 09:05:18 AM
TBH BC, I'm not one to harp 'my 'marbles are shinier than yours' that you Euros seem to engage in ad nauseum. This could be your US-political leaning, but it doesn't matter.

There's enough 'bad' news coming out of Italy's condition that I need not 'rub' upon the people of Italy. You seem to engage in these US vs EU/Italy a lot, but that's your prerogative, I suppose in the bigger scheme of things it's understandable. Just as it will be from those who counter your every opinion.

You once told us Italy have enough beds for everyone, and the social healthcare system you have can bear the brunt of this current dilemma. Maybe then you can tell us that excerpt from this medium is fake news:

Quote
"A lot of patients need help with breathing but there are not enough ventilators.

"They've told us that starting from now we'll have to choose who to intubate - priority will go to the young or those without comorbidities.

"At Niguarda, the other big hospital in Milan, they are not intubating anyone over 60, which is really, really young."

http://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-11/italy-doctors-coronavirus-covid-19-quarantine-milan-health/
Listen to the audio of the two Milanese doctors in the article talking about the real horrible conditions inside the quarantine area.

Is this reality now true in Italy or not? You keep trying to paint a rosy picture of Italian living, then critize the US for not having enough test kits, when maybe you should be more concerned Italians are dying by your side because of inadequate medical equipment? People being denied intubation for whatever reason is just diabolical. A person who have a hard time breathing and is now left alone is just not right. What a sad way to die...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 12, 2020, 09:10:34 AM
The 'other bloke' made his dear Ma lunch and prepared a Roast Dinner for 6 guests as he prepares to hand over care to his siblings..

Strange that a need to do something FAR more important than engage with strange chaps from the internet... who put 'patriotism' before common sense and awkward facts should think a 'delay' in response is some sort of 'surrender'... Ah well such is 'fora life'...

The Guardian puts it very well...for those still in touch with reality..

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/11/donald-trump-us-coronavirus-address (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/11/donald-trump-us-coronavirus-address)

Too little, too late?...Blaming others... Failure to ban non Schengen Euro nations with serious issues re the virus spreading...

You simply could NOT make this farce up....

See what I mean by a Peewee Herman style of debating? Completely ignored the numbers I gave him to refute his idle claim of superiority. When challenged, instead of making a reasoned/rational riposte, he goes and post an opinion article that have absolutely nothing to do with the subject in discussion.

This folks, is a CLEAR example of a troll who shoots blanks.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 12, 2020, 09:32:14 AM
At least it's nice to see the Germans still have a sense of humor!

Picture below said: Police Warning! Do not leave your valuables on display in your car!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 12, 2020, 09:46:57 AM

You once told us Italy have enough beds for everyone, and the social healthcare system you have can bear the brunt of this current dilemma. Maybe then you can tell us that excerpt from this medium is fake news:

http://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-11/italy-doctors-coronavirus-covid-19-quarantine-milan-health/
Listen to the audio of the two Milanese doctors in the article talking about the real horrible conditions inside the quarantine area.

Is this reality now true in Italy or not? You keep trying to paint a rosy picture of Italian living, then critize the US for not having enough test kits, when maybe you should be more concerned Italians are dying by your side because of inadequate medical equipment? People being denied intubation for whatever reason is just diabolical. A person who have a hard time breathing and is now left alone is just not right. What a sad way to die...

My Italian is good, but I'd rather someone like Sandro who is expert give you his 'lowdown' on what is on the tape.  I heard some hypotheticals and a lot of 'could be possible' along with one second, third or tenth hand account about those over 60 being refused treatment with a respirator at one hospital.  It is contrary to what I have heard.  Of course, there will be some hard decisions that doctors will have to make like 'sorry but he's too 'gone' so best to let him go so we can give this other person that has decent chances this respirator'.

Some areas like Milan are of course swamped.  Manufacturers of respirators are working 24/7 to fit the need and all are working to open more intensive care beds.

Sandro lives in that area so I'll respectfully defer to him.  In our area thus far there is enough capacity and despite much lower numbers capacity is being increased.

Unfortunately, the situation you described may well present itself on a larger scale back home.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 12, 2020, 09:59:15 AM
The 'troll' suggests you re-read your post re 'numbers' ...

Given you and facts have a loose relationship, it would have been amusing at any other time to read your suggestion of 'inaccuracy'...

Fact is, Italy is further down the line than our respective nations DESPITE measures taken far in advance of the US...

It is noted that we haven't heard from Sandro and can only hope he's just 'given up' on reasoning with 'us'...



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 12, 2020, 10:08:52 AM
My Italian is good, but I'd rather someone like Sandro who is expert give you his 'lowdown' on what is on the tape.  I heard some hypotheticals and a lot of 'could be possible' along with one second, third or tenth hand account about those over 60 being refused treatment with a respirator at one hospital.  It is contrary to what I have heard.  Of course, there will be some hard decisions that doctors will have to make like 'sorry but he's too 'gone' so best to let him go so we can give this other person that has decent chances this respirator'.

Some areas like Milan are of course swamped.  Manufacturers of respirators are working 24/7 to fit the need and all are working to open more intensive care beds.

Sandro lives in that area so I'll respectfully defer to him.  In our area thus far there is enough capacity and despite much lower numbers capacity is being increased.

Unfortunately, the situation you described may well present itself on a larger scale back home.

Whether this is happening anywhere, Italy, US, China, etc...is just wrong. Maybe this was my point about all these silliness all of us engages in 'on who's on second base' all the time. It's a pandemic. We are all in on this reality and it's not a case of 'better or worst'. This virus obviously does not discriminate.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 12, 2020, 10:10:57 AM
My Italian is good, but I'd rather someone like Sandro who is expert give you his 'lowdown' on what is on the tape.  I heard some hypotheticals and a lot of 'could be possible' along with one second, third or tenth hand account about those over 60 being refused treatment with a respirator at one hospital.  It is contrary to what I have heard.  Of course, there will be some hard decisions that doctors will have to make like 'sorry but he's too 'gone' so best to let him go so we can give this other person that has decent chances this respirator'.

Some areas like Milan are of course swamped.  Manufacturers of respirators are working 24/7 to fit the need and all are working to open more intensive care beds.

Sandro lives in that area so I'll respectfully defer to him.  In our area thus far there is enough capacity and despite much lower numbers capacity is being increased.

Unfortunately, the situation you described may well present itself on a larger scale back home.

Well it may or, it may not. That has yet to be determined and the prognosticating from all on this thread actually means dick in the larger picture. The cases of the virus that we know to date isn't exactly projecting the same path as experienced in China and Italy. Are we just in denial and you guys know more than we do? Hardly. You know what you are experiencing and I do not doubt you one bit. We know what we are experiencing, too.

There has been widespread panic in the national media. Literally everything from the WHO and the CDC gets parroted ad nausea over and over. The instructions are all the same, panic, worry, wash your hands, don't touch your face await further instruction all this for a virus that hasn't begun to reach proportions of the seasonal flu in both contagion or deaths. I think most folks here believe it is very real. Medical help is available to everyone. (how that's paid for isn't a discussion for this conversation). I think I can say with full conviction anyone who believes they may have it are getting themselves checked out. It is not being ignored or taken lightly. In fact some of us believe the hysteria is much louder than the actual virus
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 12, 2020, 10:25:51 AM
shouldn’t the death rate of covid-19
be calculated as the number of deaths divided by the number of recoveries?
and NOT the number of of deaths divided by the number of infected...

for China’s data the mortality rate would be at 5% using the first method of calculation
and 3.7% using the second way

the virus ACTUALLY does discriminate...
it freaking loves "geezers"
especially geezers with an underlying medical condition

less than 3% of the total infected in Wuhan were under the age of 18
and of those who were infected, they were the group with the mildest symptoms

I am going into self quarantine in about a month
besides my companions, my only outside human contact will be with teenage girls that I hire...

you low-brows, stop thinking what you're thinking
take a look around you, you're all gonna have "shrinkage issues" when you do
your scrotum will go into hiding as much as it can
to protect itself, it's nature's way, don't be worried comrades


 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 12, 2020, 11:00:18 AM
One week ago today, I flew home through S Korea. In Korea, they checked my passport to see if I went to Iran or China in the past 14 days. They did not check for Italy. I was put on a plane from an EMPTY Incheon airport to a bustling Atlanta airport. In Atlanta, there was no health screening, but passport control did review my passport. Once again, was not asked about Italy

So whatever it is about the Italian strain, its only recently became a reason for drastic measures

Border patrol already knows where you been based on scanning of the passport. They ask the question where you been anyway just in case your passport isn't telling the whole story. America knew Europe had a problem not because their European test kits told them but because when American doctors ask sick patients where they been and the pattern is they just came back from Europe, doctors will report that to the feds and it's easy to figure out, Europe never had control of virus and America's problems are coming from Europe, not China.

An American guy goes to the doc with a cough and fever, does not get tested and sent home with aspirin and told to drink lots of liquids.


Not true. A few articles written by journalist based on a few cases doesn't make it true. If a person lives in small town USA and never owned a passport, he'll probably get sent home with medicine. If a person lives in high risk areas like mine, King County, and we went to the doctor with flu like symptoms, the doctor will direct the person where to go for the COVID-19 tests if the doctor doesn't have the test in his clinic.

BC, if it makes you feel good to bash Trump and his handling of the virus more than bashing the Italian government, Chinese government, and WHO for not putting out warning earlier, do whatever you need to do to make yourself feel better. Truth is WHO was not allowed into China to evaluate the situation for themselves. They believed China's reporting which claimed they have control over the virus so WHO continued to educate people and countries it's safe to vacation, do business, and allow flights in and out of China. WHO and China failed the world the most.

Right now Italy is paying a high cost in life and loss of economy. It's not Trump's fault. As a matter of fact, based on Trump's ban on individuals and Italy's ban on flights, it tells me everybody had the same info at the same time and Trump may deserve credit for saving European lives. Most likely America spied on China to get info on the virus, intercepted calls, found out China lost control of the virus, and Trump made a decision to tell our allies that China isn't winning the fight on the virus and don't listen to WHO's recommendations. Take action to protect yourselves. I believe Trump is the kind of guy that will do that for America's friends. Trump may deserve credit for helping Italy determine a ban of flights from China earlier than what they would decide on their own but the media will never report it.

shouldn’t the death rate of covid-19
be calculated as the number of deaths divided by the number of recoveries?
and NOT the number of of deaths divided by the number of infected...
 

death/mortality rate is number of deaths divided by number of deaths plus recoveries. The infected aren't finished with their battle to be calculated yet but we have a big enough sample pool to reasonably predict the end result. Two reason the mortality rate is very low. China has provided Waterdown numbers and people have taken the infected and lumped them into the recovery category before their fate is determine which give the impression the overwhelming majority is surviving the battle with the virus. Go look at death and recovery numbers and ignore China's. It's alarming to see a high rate of people dying.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 12, 2020, 11:03:50 AM
shouldn’t the death rate of covid-19
be calculated as the number of deaths divided by the number of recoveries?
and NOT the number of of deaths divided by the number of infected...

Not really, it should be the number of deaths divided by the number of infected - which over time will change and become more accurate as the numbers and testing rise. Remember many may not be tested because their symptoms remained minor and did not get bad enough to warrant going to the doctor or hospital or meet testing criteria.  I would say that the numbers from S. Korea would be more accurate as it seems they tested the largest portion of the population on a per capita basis.  Statisticians will also go further by drilling down to the age groups most affected and their proportionate representation of the population.

The data ain't in yet though.  In 6 months or so will probably have a better picture.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 12, 2020, 11:13:03 AM
Not really, it should be the number of deaths divided by the number of infected - which over time will change and become more accurate as the numbers and testing rise. Remember many may not be tested because their symptoms remained minor and did not get bad enough to warrant going to the doctor or hospital or meet testing criteria.


BC, with more testing happening around the world that gives us a more accurate picture, the mortality rates have been going up. They like to tell us everything is alright and mortality rates are low because people are walking around undetected and won't die but they aren't telling us that people have died and aren't going to test them because the living has priority on test kits.

In an article I read the Italian health care system is stressed out. Not enough medicine and respirators for every COVID-19 patient. Doctors have had to make hard decisions who gets the treatments and they are choosing the people that are more likely to live which tend to be healthier and younger people.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 12, 2020, 11:29:09 AM
BC, with more testing happening around the world that gives us a more accurate picture, the mortality rates have been going up. They like to tell us everything is alright and mortality rates are low because people are walking around undetected and won't die but they aren't telling us that people have died and aren't going to test them because the living has priority on test kits.

In an article I read the Italian health care system is stressed out. Not enough medicine and respirators for every COVID-19 patient. Doctors have had to make hard decisions who gets the treatments and they are choosing the people that are more likely to live which tend to be healthier and younger people.

Billy,

Indeed, the data will get better as time goes on.  Best we have at the moment is data from S. Korea.

Regarding the article you read, refer to my post above.  Of course the system in the hardest hit area is stressed out.  Again defer to any input Sandro wants to give who lives in that area.  Other than some youtube stuff I'm not seeing such generally reported in the news here.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 12, 2020, 11:39:47 AM
Europeans criticizing Trump for not taking enough action also criticize Trump for taking too much action. Trump can't do anything right!

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-shrugs-off-eu-anger-over-coronavirus-travel-ban-when-they-raise-taxes-on-us-they-dont-consult-us/ar-BB116zot?ocid=spartanntp

Vice President Mike Pence said Thursday that there has been “irresponsible rhetoric” from people who have downplayed the seriousness of the U.S. coronavirus outbreak.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/pence-says-theres-irresponsible-rhetoric-114342263.html

It's serious folks. It was always serious from the beginning it showed up on earth.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 12, 2020, 12:31:38 PM
Well Boris had a meeting with the Cobra Kai today. We are now moving the delay phase. No school shutdowns at present though. Just self isolate for 7 days if you come down with any cold or flu like symptoms. In a few days the elderly with pre-existing health conditions will be told that they should self isolate as I was saying should happen on here just yesterday ;)

Apparently our government advisors reckon we are about 4 weeks behind Italy. That's not a bad heads up to us to plan ahead and avoid any mistakes Italy makes. I would assume that the UK could be likely to take a different tack in terms of avoiding shuttering businesses as in Italy as that could be a vicious downward spiral.

On the BBC News website in Italy today:

"Italy has now seen 1,016 deaths, amid a total number 15,113 infections. Civil protection officials say 1,258 have recovered."

So back and forth around the 50 per cent each way line. So over a thousand people have died so far! They are unlikely at the worst if it yet either.

Odds are there will be a shutdown of travel between countries. The virus could be a real game changer in how things are.

Looks like news websites are moving away from the number of infected to deaths rubbish so the real stats now seep out.

Today the government advisors reckon the virus will be tailing of by around May time. I think that is wishful thinking. Probably put out so as to not panic the population. I reckon we are in for the long haul on this one.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 12, 2020, 01:16:04 PM
"Not really, it should be the number of deaths divided by the number of infected"

ok, but why?
since you don't know the outcome of the currently infected, they are currently "alive" but 5% will die later
this leads to quite a variance
I kinda think the deaths/recovery is a more accurate metric with less variance
moy dva kopec
but I'm just lookin at it numerically
maybe there's a non-numeric reason to look at it as you suggest
I dunno, can you explain why you chose your calculation?
 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 12, 2020, 01:16:22 PM
Well Boris had a meeting with the Cobra Kai today. We are now moving the delay phase. No school shutdowns at present though. Just self isolate for 7 days if you come down with any cold or flu like symptoms. In a few days the elderly with pre-existing health conditions will be told that they should self isolate as I was saying should happen on here just yesterday ;)

Trench, do tell us how 'self-isolating' has worked on cruise ships and nursing homes ....

Apparently our government advisors reckon we are about 4 weeks behind Italy. That's not a bad heads up to us to plan ahead and avoid any mistakes Italy makes. I would assume that the UK could be likely to take a different tack in terms of avoiding shuttering businesses as in Italy as that could be a vicious downward spiral.

Hmm, if you are relying on BoJo's words - AGAIN - you're open to be pilloried .. it's nearly THREE weeks since Italy cordoned off red areas .. 21 Feb ... :popcorn:


Odds are there will be a shutdown of travel between countries. The virus could be a real game changer in how things are.

Looks like news websites are moving away from the number of infected to deaths rubbish so the real stats now seep out.

'Real stats' ?  Where you selective in listening to the factor of how many folk may be infected in the UK, now ?

Today the government advisors reckon the virus will be tailing of by around May time. I think that is wishful thinking. Probably put out so as to not panic the population. I reckon we are in for the long haul on this one.

NOT what was said...they hope to delay the peak ... they did not speak of any certainty ..

Not for the first time, you demonstrate to hear what you seem to want to hear and rarely heed the advice you are given ..
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 12, 2020, 01:29:08 PM
This is plain crazy (http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/uk-scientists-paying-people-dollar4000-to-get-infected-with-coronaviruses/ar-BB116DLq). But a great way for trenchcoat to get a little money on the side to help with his wife hunting.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 12, 2020, 01:37:10 PM
 :rolleyes:
Trench, do tell us how 'self-isolating' has worked on cruise ships and nursing homes ....

Hmm, if you are relying on BoJo's words - AGAIN - you're open to be pilloried .. it's nearly THREE weeks since Italy cordoned off red areas .. 21 Feb ... :popcorn:


'Real stats' ?  Where you selective in listening to the factor of how many folk may be infected in the UK, now ?

NOT what was said...they hope to delay the peak ... they did not speak of any certainty ..

Not for the first time, you demonstrate to hear what you seem to want to hear and rarely heed the advice you are given ..

Dispute all you like Mobers. While you are being complacent this poster is tooling up to prepare for the coming escalation in the Crisis :)

You'll be feeling pretty foolish soon when you're left feeling under equipped in the face of the ensuing Crises ;)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 12, 2020, 02:02:26 PM
This is plain crazy (http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/uk-scientists-paying-people-dollar4000-to-get-infected-with-coronaviruses/ar-BB116DLq). But a great way for trenchcoat to get a little money on the side to help with his wife hunting.
I really think trenchcoat would be better off selling the TP by the milometer. 

Fathertime!   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 12, 2020, 02:41:46 PM
Nah- I don't see him being a good salesperson.

But I find it interesting that Nevada doesn't have a recorded infected person considering Las Vegas, Reno, and Lake Tahoe are huge gathering areas...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 12, 2020, 02:44:43 PM
:rolleyes:
Dispute all you like Mobers. While you are being complacent this poster is tooling up to prepare for the coming escalation in the Crisis :)

You'll be feeling pretty foolish soon when you're left feeling under equipped in the face of the ensuing Crises ;)

What will I be short of..?

Toilet paper? I bought a pack of 24... There's plenty already in the UK

Hand sanitizer?

That is out of stock..because of selfish ppl like you...but we are washing our hands..

Food? People were not starving in China..


Like most things... You never think things though..




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: mhr7 on March 12, 2020, 02:59:56 PM
Quote
Sean Hannity used his syndicated talk-radio program Wednesday to share a prediction he had found on Twitter about what is really happening with the coronavirus: It’s a “fraud” by the deep state to spread panic in the populace, manipulate the economy and suppress dissent.

Quote
“This coronavirus?” Rush Limbaugh asked skeptically during his Wednesday program. “All of this panic is just not warranted.”

The Fox Business anchor Trish Regan told viewers Monday that the worry over coronavirus “is yet another attempt to impeach the president.”

Views from the looney far-right. You'd think a pandemic would be a time for a country to unite, guess not.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/sean-hannity-thinks-coronavirus-panic-120516477.html

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 12, 2020, 03:04:26 PM
On the BBC News website in Italy today:

"Italy has now seen 1,016 deaths, amid a total number 15,113 infections. Civil protection officials say 1,258 have recovered."


Trench, since people, experts, governments and the media are having a hard time understanding mortality rate which gets them to severely underestimate the danger of this virus, I'm going to do a comparison today so more people will "get it".

WHO doesn't use the word "Pandemic" often. They reserve that word for worldwide epidemics that threaten humanity. Let's do a little comparison with the COVID-19 pandemic and the last designated WHO pandemic, the 2009 Swine Flu.

Swine Flu in Europe had  500,000 infected  and  caused 2889 Deaths which means they had 497,111 Recoveries. Mortality rate is not calculated by infection. Mortality rate is deaths divided by deaths plus recoveries so basically it's 2889 divided by (2889 + 487,111). The confusion comes from deaths plus recoveries also equals total infections when an epidemic is over and people think infections is what needs to be used in calculating mortality rate but not true and during an event where people are currently fighting for their lives, using infections into the calculation definitely waters down mortality rate estimates as we see from the reports on COVID-19.  Since everybody is finished with their battle swine flu in Europe, the final mortality rate is .57% which is 5.7 times more deadlier than the flu which kills .1% of the people it infects. 1 out of every 173 people in Europe who caught the swine flu died. Normal flu we experience kills 1 out of every 1000 people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic_in_Europe

Italy, now with a large sample pool of COVID -19, has 15,113 infected, 1016 deaths, and 1258 recoveries. To calculate the current mortality rate of Italy deaths(1016) divided by (deaths(1016) plus recoveries(1258)) which translate to a 44.7% mortality rate killing close to 1 out of every 2 people in Italy and is 447 times more dangerous than the flu and 78.4 times more dangerous than the swine flu. Hopefully with more numbers coming it, death rate will go down but don't expect it to go down to swine flu pandemic numbers.

Even if someone doesn't understand numbers, they have eyes. Just look at the World crashing down around you in a very short time this virus showed up. This is just the beginning of COVID-19. It hasn't reached the amount of infections the Swine flu pandemic achieved yet but if it does, you will see quarantines implemented in a way that makes the Italian quarantine look like a joke. The world wasn't crashing during the swine flu pandemic. Not all pandemics are equal and COVID-19 kills people at a much higher rate than the flu and swine flu.

The high mortality rate is scary but what is more scary is that this coronavirus is related to the cold virus and humans have tried for over a 100 years to create a suitable vaccine for the cold viruses and failed. At least with the Swine flu virus, it was comforting to know that discovering a swine flu vaccine was possible and only a matter of time in getting it out to the public. Governments will tell you they are working on a vaccine. After a few years pass by, if they haven't found one, they probably never will. We get colds 2-3 times a year. With no cure, we may have to live with COVID-19 multiple times a year forever just like we live with cold viruses. Periodic quarantining may be a big part of our lives from here on out. The only solution we have now is locking down people, finding those infected, quarantine those people separate from the population and eradicate this virus from the human body so we don't have to live with it anymore. If we miss just ONE person and they go around infecting others, we will continue to have outbreaks. Fighting COVID-19 will cost lives and our economies but it must be done. Trying to do this cheap will cost humanity more in the end.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 12, 2020, 03:05:03 PM
Views from the looney far-right. You'd think a pandemic would be a time for a country to unite, guess not.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/sean-hannity-thinks-coronavirus-panic-120516477.html

Product of Google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: mhr7 on March 12, 2020, 03:08:05 PM
Product of Google.

Product of Yahoo homepage.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 12, 2020, 03:16:35 PM
Trench, since people, experts, governments and the media are having a hard time understanding mortality rate which gets them to severely underestimate the danger of this virus, I'm going to do a comparison today so more people will "get it".

Does 'getting it' include your making up the meaning of pandemic?

'A disease prevalent over a whole country or the world.'

With that and your 'mortality rates'....

I'll leave you in continued ignorance



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 12, 2020, 03:36:06 PM
if the virus doesn’t start to slowdown SOON due to the rising temps
then we are SCREWED!!!!
maybe it means it’s not so temperature sensitive as people thought
and instead it just got started in the winter
if it does continue to grow
then by the end of winter, it’ll be GAME OVER

public schools and universities all shutting down in Harris County TX NOW!
and the county next to us!

the Houston mayor’s office issued a public warning...
they say Houston could have a 30% infection rate this winter
with one out five requiring hospitalization!
that's a few hundred times current capacity!

or as Republicans say “Democratic Hoax” like the Meuller report and like the impeachment
democrats are just mad they lost
and are trying to deflect from Hillary’s emails

the virus has infected far less than the bubonic plague or smallpox for example
so why all the media hysteria
no one is afraid of those!!
just more libtard nonsense

The President's speech last night was PERFECT!
it shows how brilliantly he is handling the problem
and the full extent of his leadership capability!!
I feel highly reassured!!!

thank you ALL for voting for him, cuz I was stoopid and voted for Hillary
and not REAL SMART like you guys!!!
so again, thanks!!!





Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 12, 2020, 04:16:36 PM
I haven't been to the doctor in years. My wife pushed me to make an appointment for a checkup. I made an appointment at the VA hospital in Seattle over a month ago and I promised to tell everyone about my what I see in the hospital there tomorrow but it's not going to happen.

I usually get calls from a computer reminding me of my appointment or telling me where the coronavirus testing is located in the hospital. Today I get a call from a human. The lady recommends I cancel but will keep the appointment if I insist. I ask what is the importance for cancelling. She said its for their safety but I feel it's also for patients safety and she's not telling people because she doesn't want to scare them. I told her I'm healthy, don't have anything contagious to hurt the staff, and just going in for a checkup so I'll keep the appointment. The lady proceeds to ask me a series of questions pertaining to my condition and where I been lately. Call was on speakerphone so wife runs over and tells me to cancel. I cancel.

Wife who's college quarter has been cancelled told me her teacher is currently working at the VA hospital. They have confirmed COVID-19 cases there and her teacher has to wear full protective gear. Seems like the hospital is getting busy and is needing people to cancel appointments. My wife told me they are injecting patients with high doses of Vitamin C as part of the therapeutic treatment. I went out to buy high doses of Vitamin C at Faux Pas recommendation a few days ago. Shelves were nearly empty but I got two bottles and my wife ordered real Vitamin C online. If you guys still have money left over after buying toilet paper, go out and buy Vitamin C to boost your immune system.

An Italian nurse talks about her work. It's a good read. Medical professionals are the front line soldiers in the fight against the virus.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/an-italian-coronavirus-nurse-posted-a-picture-of-her-face-bruised-from-wearing-a-mask-to-highlight-how-much-health-workers-are-struggling/ar-BB115QWS?ocid=spartanntp

Seattle's sex industry is getting decimated. Clients are cancelling appointments and there's no new clients to replace them. I see a lot of financial hardships coming for people in certain industries.

http://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/seattle-sex-workers-covid19-coronavirus-094500177.html

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 12, 2020, 04:19:37 PM
Not really, it should be the number of deaths divided by the number of infected - which over time will change and become more accurate as the numbers and testing rise.

Correct.  Apples and oranges when comparing data from different nations, as per your South Korea example. The laboratory techniques likely differ too.     

Quote
Statisticians will also go further by drilling down to the age groups most affected and their proportionate representation of the population.

Not just age, yet other factors such as existing health when infected.  I expect smoking also to be identified as an important  factor determining death rate.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 12, 2020, 04:34:59 PM
I haven't been to the doctor in years. My wife pushed me to make an appointment for a checkup. I made an appointment at the VA hospital in Seattle over a month ago and I promised to tell everyone about my what I see in the hospital there tomorrow but it's not going to happen.

I usually get calls from a computer reminding me of my appointment or telling me where the coronavirus testing is located in the hospital. Today I get a call from a human. The lady recommends I cancel but will keep the appointment if I insist. I ask what is the importance for cancelling. She said its for their safety but I feel it's also for patients safety and she's not telling people because she doesn't want to scare them. I told her I'm healthy, don't have anything contagious to hurt the staff, and just going in for a checkup so I'll keep the appointment. The lady proceeds to ask me a series of questions pertaining to my condition and where I been lately. Call was on speakerphone so wife runs over and tells me to cancel. I cancel.

Good for you, but maybe just reschedule it sometime in the near future. WA is the US epicenter right now. Being in a clinic where you are is probably not the best place to be in at this time. I was at my doctor's office Monday, and my doctor was more 'serious' about the craze than I. He's wearing the proverbial mask understandably, though I kid and asked him why it isn't at least a N95.

Quote
Wife who's college quarter has been cancelled told me her teacher is currently working at the VA hospital. They have confirmed COVID-19 cases there and her teacher has to wear full protective gear. Seems like the hospital is getting busy and is needing people to cancel appointments. My wife told me they are injecting patients with high doses of Vitamin C as part of the therapeutic treatment. I went out to buy high doses of Vitamin C at Faux Pas recommendation a few days ago. Shelves were nearly empty but I got two bottles and my wife ordered real Vitamin C online. If you guys still have money left over after buying toilet paper, go out and buy Vitamin C to boost your immune system.

I hate to break it to you and FP, and you guys know how I feel about you two, but it's a myth that Vitamin C is helpful. Especially the supplements. If it has any advantage at all, I reckon it'll be fairly modest. Besides, unless you're on a strict burrito daily diet, you're like getting your daily Vit. C dosage already anyway. If not you're better off with a nice blueberry smoothie in the AM than a supplement. You'll be better off making sure you're adequate with your Vit. D daily requirement to help with your immune system.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 12, 2020, 04:58:48 PM
Correct.  Apples and oranges when comparing data from different nations, as per your South Korea example. The laboratory techniques likely differ too.     


Look at the numbers coming in from trustworthy nations with top quality health care systems. Choose any nation with a good sample size. Death rates are much higher than swine flu. If I had a choice to experience swine flu 5 times in my life or CoOVID-19 once, I'm eating bacon every time.

   
Not just age, yet other factors such as existing health when infected.  I expect smoking also to be identified as an important  factor determining death rate.   


COVID-19 magnifies the chances to die for all age groups across the board. Young healthy people have a much smaller chance to die compared to old people when infected with the common flu. Young people's death rate is magnified with COVID-19 and if there is no cure and a young person gets it multiple times in their life, they may die before they get old.

There's a lot of articles going around downplaying how dangerous the virus is to reduce panic. I'm okay with them not telling the truth because panic kills too. But if you want the truth, don't believe what you hear. Use your eyes and see what is going on around you. After one confirmed infection, Mongolia shut down all schools. After one confirmed infection the NBA and other sports suspended their seasons and cancelled tournaments. Disneyland is closed. Some states have shut down all schools. Hospitals and governments are preparing for war against the virus. It's not an overreaction to a virus that's a little more dangerous than the flu and only kills old people. It's the proper reaction to a very dangerous virus that kills people of all ages and has the ability to change the way we live forever.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 12, 2020, 05:00:24 PM
You'll be better off making sure you're adequate with your Vit. D daily requirement to help with your immune system.

Vitamin D3 supplements will help the immune system, especially if you are exposed to little sunlight.       

Surprisingly I have seen little discussion of this in the COVID-19 chatter. 

"Specifically in respiratory health, vitamin D deficiency has been shown to increase the risk of upper respiratory tract infections and tuberculosis and to decrease the forced expiratory volume in 1 s (FEV1) in asthma and wheezing diseases."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759054/

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 12, 2020, 05:07:06 PM
Trench, since people, experts, governments and the media are having a hard time understanding mortality rate which gets them to severely underestimate the danger of this virus, I'm going to do a comparison today so more people will "get it".

WHO doesn't use the word "Pandemic" often. They reserve that word for worldwide epidemics that threaten humanity. Let's do a little comparison with the COVID-19 pandemic and the last designated WHO pandemic, the 2009 Swine Flu.

Swine Flu in Europe had  500,000 infected  and  caused 2889 Deaths which means they had 497,111 Recoveries. Mortality rate is not calculated by infection. Mortality rate is deaths divided by deaths plus recoveries so basically it's 2889 divided by (2889 + 487,111). The confusion comes from deaths plus recoveries also equals total infections when an epidemic is over and people think infections is what needs to be used in calculating mortality rate but not true and during an event where people are currently fighting for their lives, using infections into the calculation definitely waters down mortality rate estimates as we see from the reports on COVID-19.  Since everybody is finished with their battle swine flu in Europe, the final mortality rate is .57% which is 5.7 times more deadlier than the flu which kills .1% of the people it infects. 1 out of every 173 people in Europe who caught the swine flu died. Normal flu we experience kills 1 out of every 1000 people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic_in_Europe

Italy, now with a large sample pool of COVID -19, has 15,113 infected, 1016 deaths, and 1258 recoveries. To calculate the current mortality rate of Italy deaths(1016) divided by (deaths(1016) plus recoveries(1258)) which translate to a 44.7% mortality rate killing close to 1 out of every 2 people in Italy and is 447 times more dangerous than the flu and 78.4 times more dangerous than the swine flu. Hopefully with more numbers coming it, death rate will go down but don't expect it to go down to swine flu pandemic numbers.

Even if someone doesn't understand numbers, they have eyes. Just look at the World crashing down around you in a very short time this virus showed up. This is just the beginning of COVID-19. It hasn't reached the amount of infections the Swine flu pandemic achieved yet but if it does, you will see quarantines implemented in a way that makes the Italian quarantine look like a joke. The world wasn't crashing during the swine flu pandemic. Not all pandemics are equal and COVID-19 kills people at a much higher rate than the flu and swine flu.

The high mortality rate is scary but what is more scary is that this coronavirus is related to the cold virus and humans have tried for over a 100 years to create a suitable vaccine for the cold viruses and failed. At least with the Swine flu virus, it was comforting to know that discovering a swine flu vaccine was possible and only a matter of time in getting it out to the public. Governments will tell you they are working on a vaccine. After a few years pass by, if they haven't found one, they probably never will. We get colds 2-3 times a year. With no cure, we may have to live with COVID-19 multiple times a year forever just like we live with cold viruses. Periodic quarantining may be a big part of our lives from here on out. The only solution we have now is locking down people, finding those infected, quarantine those people separate from the population and eradicate this virus from the human body so we don't have to live with it anymore. If we miss just ONE person and they go around infecting others, we will continue to have outbreaks. Fighting COVID-19 will cost lives and our economies but it must be done. Trying to do this cheap will cost humanity more in the end.

That's a pretty sobering assessment Billy.

Unfortunately it probably ties in with the UK Government Cobra briefing today, at least in parts. There was still bs coming out so as not to panic the stupid in the population such as elating the overall infections to mortality then just stating that I may be higher in the elderly especially those with pre-existing conditions.

However they admitted that up to around 80 percent of the population may get Coronavirus. So that's pretty much everyone. Boris gave a stark warning that we are likely to lose many loved ones. Despite trying to not show fear I think he looked to be trying to cover a lot of worry. Although he didn't press the point to a specific extreme extent he said this Virus will be the biggest obstacle of our generation. My underlying impression taking into account what you have found out is that the scientists are telling him that initial signs are not good news. They could have well told him it's a pretty dire situation much as you have outlined.

Some virus epidemics only die out once they can't find any more humans. Basically because so many have been killed off. While these days we can develop vaccines if one can't be developed that is the situation we may be facing.

The only other realistic hope might be that it doesn't easily reinfect people that have already had it, and/or it has a far milder affect. Potentially even other strains of it may not have as great an effect. Some reports suggest there may be people having mild cases of it first time around, perhaps moreso the young. If it is possible that this virus ends up as no worse than a mild cold in the long term then that would take away the problem over time.

It looks like this virus looks set to clear away the old to make way for the new.

If it really does go as bad you outline Billy then there is also the very probable and scary reality of society going into meltdown. The stockpiling going on won't last forever in which case we have to consider there will be little in the way of future supplies. We would need to adapt to find our own source of food if the convenience of it no longer being delivered to supermarket shelves becomes a reality.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 12, 2020, 05:07:26 PM
if it does continue to grow
then by the end of winter, it’ll be GAME OVER

      ...


thank you ALL for voting for him, cuz I was stoopid and voted for Hillary
and not REAL SMART like you guys!!!
so again, thanks!!!



I originally thought your criticism of Trump regarding COVID-19 was merely political partisanship.  Now I believe it is a product of anxiety, a not uncommon condition these days.

Krim, you and I and our healthy loved ones will make it through this episode.  Humans, especially Americans, are resilient. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 12, 2020, 05:31:56 PM
Boris gave a stark warning that we are likely to lose many loved ones. Despite trying to not show fear I think he looked to be trying to cover a lot of worry. Although he didn't press the point to a specific extreme extent he said this Virus will be the biggest obstacle of our generation. My underlying impression taking into account what you have found out is that the scientists are telling him that initial signs are not good news. They could have well told him it's a pretty dire situation much as you have outlined.


Governments and large organizations have access to some of the top doctors and experts on viruses and epidemics and they tell those experts "Give me the NO BS description of this new coronavirus". After getting the NO BS version, governments and organizations will take action that doesn't make sense because most people got the BS description of the virus that it's not a big deal. I didn't watch the Boris video but I did watch Trump and I can see Trump is worried. There is no quick solution. There will be a huge cost in lives and economy to battle the virus.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Hammer2722 on March 12, 2020, 05:51:17 PM
I was supposed to see my primary care doctor this last Tuesday as a blood draw follow-up. Got a call Monday afternoon asking to cancel my appt. as my Dr. was exposed to Covid19 and is now self isolating himself...... I live in Kitsap County, WA. I may have dodged a bullet....
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 12, 2020, 06:24:01 PM
Governments and large organizations have access to some of the top doctors and experts on viruses and epidemics and they tell those experts "Give me the NO BS description of this new coronavirus". After getting the NO BS version, governments and organizations will take action that doesn't make sense because most people got the BS description of the virus that it's not a big deal. I didn't watch the Boris video but I did watch Trump and I can see Trump is worried. There is no quick solution. There will be a huge cost in lives and economy to battle the virus.

For sure, I fear that this virus will cause a miserable life for many of us, those that survive if course. All because the dumb arse Chinese never learnt after the close call with Sars that eating wild animals is just not worth the risk. They should have banned it outright with stiff penalties, imprisonment, etc.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 12, 2020, 07:24:11 PM
guys...

look at these two numbers, ok...

date              number of new cases
3-8-2020       40
3-12-2020     415

in the last 4 days, the number of new cases per day, climbed 1,000% here in the USA!!!!!!


ok, the way for rednecks, and other social riff raff to understand visually what's happening is this web site here for ya'll

http://publichealth.harriscountytx.gov/Resources/2019-Novel-Coronavirus

zoom in on the USA...

see all them thar "red dots"
well them thar red dots is gonna grow bigger and bigger
and then....
there's gonna be more and more and more and more
of them there red dots...
until they is all touchin each other
like a bunch of possum babies at dinner time
and the USA is just a big ole red dot

me, I just hired my first blond teen delivery girl using a webcam interview (more on her later)
because I'm gonna live like Howard Hughes and completely isolate myself from the world
except for the teen girls!!!

my wife and children are self quarantining "real soon now" according to them
both my children now only attend university online!!!
apparently, I pay $48,000 per year for each one of them for an online education, and I'm actually OK with that!!!
the weird world I live in now

also guys...
I think I just figured out something about the virus based on what I see from the low rate happening in Costa Rica!!!
it's the dry season there!!!!!

I think the virus likes it more where it's wet compared to dryer
will spread faster in those conditions

and rate of increase is proportional to population density...
big densities get hit harder earlier

Costa Rica should just cut all tourist travel, but the country lives by tourism
so the same thing that happened to the USA in January is starting to happen in Costa Rica now..

i'm beginning to think there are actually lots of infected people, maybe younger, who don't know they're infected yet
and so they're getting on planes and infecting older people who become symptomatic...
and we're just letting them come on in to uninfected areas
the world needs a harder travel quarantine NOW!
but maybe already too late
even for Costa Rica
and doing that would only shave a week off at best from exponential stage
and bog help us when that comes...
when the whether turns cold and rainy....












 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 12, 2020, 08:04:39 PM
I hate to break it to you and FP, and you guys know how I feel about you two, but it's a myth that Vitamin C is helpful. Especially the supplements. If it has any advantage at all, I reckon it'll be fairly modest. Besides, unless you're on a strict burrito daily diet, you're like getting your daily Vit. C dosage already anyway. If not you're better off with a nice blueberry smoothie in the AM than a supplement. You'll be better off making sure you're adequate with your Vit. D daily requirement to help with your immune system.


Back in the old days Vitamin C was used to prevent and treat Scurvy. It works. Today it's used for treating and preventing the common cold according to the link below. Remember what I said about this coronavirus being related to the cold virus? It makes sense what my wife said about the doctors at the hospital are giving super infusions of Vitamin C to coronavirus patients. I call a friend of mine who was a nurse. He said Vitamin C does work but mileage may vary. Some people will benefit from it more than others. I learned more about Vitamin C today and I recommend everybody buy some since it'll improve your immunity system, and good for treating colds since this new virus is related to the cold virus.

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-1001/vitamin-c-ascorbic-acid

My wife's college just sent out an email that one of the students has COVID-19
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 12, 2020, 08:08:50 PM


But I find it interesting that Nevada doesn't have a recorded infected person considering Las Vegas, Reno, and Lake Tahoe are huge gathering areas...
check this out. 

Wynn Resorts uses thermal cameras to screen guests, 100.4 degrees or higher asked to leave


In the wake of the coronavirus pandemic, Wynn Resorts is using thermal cameras to monitor the temperatures of guests.

“We will be screening for temperature using non-invasive thermal cameras at all our entrances,” Wynn CEO Matt Maddox said in a statement about new company policies in response to the intensifying spread of COVID- 19.

The USA TODAY Network asked the company how it will use temperature readings:

"Any person registering a temperature of 100.4F or higher will be discreetly informed by a trained member of the security team and not be permitted to remain inside the resort," a company statement said....


 http://www.yahoo.com/news/wynn-resorts-uses-thermal-cameras-005725038.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/wynn-resorts-uses-thermal-cameras-005725038.html)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 12, 2020, 08:11:23 PM
Views from the looney far-right. You'd think a pandemic would be a time for a country to unite, guess not.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/sean-hannity-thinks-coronavirus-panic-120516477.html

I heard hannity today briefly while driving....his partisanship was absolutely disgusting.  what is worse is the multitude of lemmings that buy his bs hook line and sinker.

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 12, 2020, 08:24:54 PM

There's a lot of articles going around downplaying how dangerous the virus is to reduce panic. I'm okay with them not telling the truth because panic kills too. But if you want the truth, don't believe what you hear. Use your eyes and see what is going on around you. After one confirmed infection, Mongolia shut down all schools. After one confirmed infection the NBA and other sports suspended their seasons and cancelled tournaments. Disneyland is closed. Some states have shut down all schools. Hospitals and governments are preparing for war against the virus. It's not an overreaction to a virus that's a little more dangerous than the flu and only kills old people. It's the proper reaction to a very dangerous virus that kills people of all ages and has the ability to change the way we live forever.
I'm going to have to agree with billyb on this one.  It is amazing how many people hannity has influenced into believing the covid virus is nothing much.   talk show host Dennis Prager was lamenting what a bunch of wussies our society is for closing schools, and things like that. What a partisan idiot!  It is as if we are supposed to wait until a kid is infected so he can infect 10 other kids.  IF the virus is as serious as it seems it might be, the schools should be closed.  Prager is obese, old, and likes to smoke cigars, let's see how his tough talk handles the virus, if it comes his way.

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 12, 2020, 08:27:33 PM
  Humans, especially Americans, are resilient.
No, not 'especially americans'.  We are not exceptionally resilient, no more so then other peoples.  Other people suffer many more hardships and are resilient. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 12, 2020, 08:27:59 PM
Some more bad news about the virus:

http://amp.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3074988/coronavirus-some-recovered-patients-may-have

Only potentially positive news was that they are going to test out some antibiotics they developed for the likes of ebola, etc.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 12, 2020, 08:32:52 PM



my wife and children are self quarantining "real soon now" according to them
both my children now only attend university online!!!
apparently, I pay $48,000 per year for each one of them for an online education, and I'm actually OK with that!!!
the weird world I live in now
We are in the same boat, my daughters classes end today from here on out  Online classes only, 44k a year for her education as a MD at some point.   

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: mhr7 on March 12, 2020, 08:33:57 PM
Back in the old days Vitamin C was used to prevent and treat Scurvy.

It still prevents scurvy as scurvy is a lack of vitamin C. Humans can't produce vitamin C so it needs to come from our diet.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 12, 2020, 08:35:31 PM
check this out. 

WOW! So Vegas is starting to shade too. The PGA cancelled the next 5 tournament. March Madness cancelled the 2020 schedule. We got notified the Getty museum is closing until further notice. Disney, universal, etc. I haven’t received anything from the Reagan library but I’m sure they’ll follow suit soon too.

NASCAR is probably the only sporting venue left that continues on albeit with no spectators. My club had been closed but it’s because of the current storm so I’m awaiting to see if notification of course shutdown is in the future.

California have a moratorium for all venues that’s >250 folks. This will include theaters, religious congregation, malls, etc...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 12, 2020, 08:37:53 PM
I think I just figured out something about the virus based on what I see from the low rate happening in Costa Rica!!!
it's the dry season there!!!!!

Nice try.  Iran has an arid climate except in a narrow littoral strip along the Caspian Sea.  However, of the 9" of annual rainfall, a vast majority occurs over the six months from November thru April (creating excellent ski conditions  in the mountains) 

Quote
and rate of increase is proportional to population density...
big densities get hit harder earlier

Higher opportunity for contact and exposure.  Social distancing near impossible in transit - think about the many surfaces one touches in using the subway, the close proximity of riders, etc.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 12, 2020, 08:38:25 PM
WOW! So Vegas is starting to shade too. The PGA cancelled the next 5 tournament. March Madness cancelled the 2020 schedule. We got notified the Getty museum is closing until further notice. Disney, universal, etc. I haven’t received anything from the Reagan library but I’m sure they’ll follow suit soon too.

NASCAR is probably the only sporting venue left that continues on albeit with no spectators. My club had been closed but it’s because of the current storm so I’m awaiting to see if notification of course shutdown is in the future.
the santa anita race track must be closing, because my sisters 50th birthday was cancelled this weekend at the track.  I just read the races will go off, but without fans in the stands.     

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 12, 2020, 08:42:48 PM
WOW! So Vegas is starting to shade too. The PGA cancelled the next 5 tournament. March Madness cancelled the 2020 schedule. We got notified the Getty museum is closing until further notice. Disney, universal, etc. I haven’t received anything from the Reagan library but I’m sure they’ll follow suit soon too.

NASCAR is probably the only sporting venue left that continues on albeit with no spectators. My club had been closed but it’s because of the current storm so I’m awaiting to see if notification of course shutdown is in the future.

California have a moratorium for all venues that’s >250 folks.
I stopped in briefly at pechanga Last weekend as I was passing through.  Definitely less people, by now I'm guessing it would be a ghost town.  I'm curious to see if CA shuts them down...although they are on sovereign indian land probably, i"m not sure if that makes a difference. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 12, 2020, 08:45:58 PM
I thinks it transcends all sector of humanity.

Part of me feels somewhat relieved that the majority of California’s population are non-smokers. There’s got to be some advantage for people who don’t smoke.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 12, 2020, 08:50:30 PM
Some more bad news about the virus:

http://amp.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3074988/coronavirus-some-recovered-patients-may-have


Trench, once you get this virus, don't expect to be a 100% healthy human being ever again if you survive, especially if you get pneumonia. The damage to your lungs most likely will be permanent. After a patient survives the virus, the patient may continue to be a burden on the health care system.

Trump is considering banning travel to my State which would be another step forward towards a full blown quarantine. I pasted by a motel 10 minutes away from my home this morning. It was closed and the parking lot was barricaded off but had a government vehicle in the parking lot. Sounds like my local government bought another hotel to make a hospital. If they did buy another hotel, they didn't advertise it like the last one which people protested they didn't want infected people near their neighborhoods.


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 12, 2020, 08:51:12 PM
Odd that California is being considered and not NY which has more infections and more concentrated population.

Trump considers travel restrictions to California and Washington in attempt to stop coronavirus spread

President Trump said Thursday that travel restrictions to California and Washington, two states hit hard by the coronavirus outbreak, were possible “if an area gets too hot.”

One day after announcing a 30-day suspension of travel from the European Union to the United States, Trump was asked by a reporter in the Oval Office whether domestic restrictions were also possible.

“Is it a possibility?” Trump responded. “Yes, if somebody gets a little bit out of control, if an area gets too hot.”

Trump canceled his own trip to Nevada and Colorado minutes after announcing the EU travel restrictions.

Of the more than 1,400 cases of coronavirus confirmed in the United States, the largest number, 341, are in Washington state. New York has reported 327 cases, the second-highest, and California currently has 201....
.

  http://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-considers-travel-restrictions-to-california-and-washington-in-attempt-to-stop-coronavirus-spread-204627351.html  (http://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-considers-travel-restrictions-to-california-and-washington-in-attempt-to-stop-coronavirus-spread-204627351.html)

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 12, 2020, 09:01:19 PM
:devil:

I’m sure it hasn’t escaped you that it isn’t just a coincidence that the hardest hit states also happens to be the, eherm, blue states.

Methinks maybe Jesus is a Republican.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: mhr7 on March 12, 2020, 09:02:49 PM
Trench, once you get this virus, don't expect to be a 100% healthy human being ever again if you survive, especially if you get pneumonia. The damage to your lungs most likely will be permanent. After a patient survives the virus, the patient may continue to be a burden on the health care system.

Billy, where do you get your medical information from? Most recover within 2 weeks and are just fine.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 12, 2020, 09:22:02 PM
Billy, where do you get your medical information from? Most recover within 2 weeks and are just fine.

Most people who contracted the virus has mild symptoms but some people get pneumonia which can cause permanent damage to the lungs. Surviving the virus is to be celebrated but some survivors may need to be on a breathing machine for the rest of their lives.

http://www.premierhealth.com/faq/are-there-any-long-term-effects-from-having-pneumonia-

Prime Minister of Canada Trudeau's wife got the virus.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/canada-trudeaus-wife-tests-positive-for-new-coronavirus/ar-BB117s22?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 12, 2020, 09:23:14 PM
my projection in a "nutshell" for the USA

wherever Italy is...
is where the USA will be 2 weeks later
so watch what happens there...

pretty much every country in the world is "somewhere on the spectrum"

people are going to totally underestimate this...
cuz later a few months from now, when the numbers start to go down in the USA
they are all gonna cheer....
like they're doin in China now

but when everyone starts goin back to work
and the weather goes back to bein cold and rainy in China
it'll come back there twice as hard as the first time...
and be a totally new strain no one is immune to

ok...
guys...
I also think a war is coming to!!!

pestilence
poverty
war
and democrats



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on March 12, 2020, 09:32:12 PM
Trench, once you get this virus, don't expect to be a 100% healthy human being ever again if you survive, especially if you get pneumonia. The damage to your lungs most likely will be permanent. After a patient survives the virus, the patient may continue to be a burden on the health care system.

Trump is considering banning travel to my State which would be another step forward towards a full blown quarantine. I pasted by a motel 10 minutes away from my home this morning. It was closed and the parking lot was barricaded off but had a government vehicle in the parking lot. Sounds like my local government bought another hotel to make a hospital. If they did buy another hotel, they didn't advertise it like the last one which people protested they didn't want infected people near their neighborhoods.

Billy,
Your fear mongering on this issue is off the rails!  You provide opinions that are totally false and/or not supported by the facts of those with expertise in the topics.

For example, your statement that anyone that gets the virus will never be normal or 100% healthy again.  That opinion is reckless and untrue.  As stated by many medical experts, many of those that contract the virus don't even know it and may not have any symptoms and in many cases the symptoms are no more severe than the common flu.  I have never heard any medical expert make the claims that you make in your statement.

As best as I can tell, neither you nor I have the expertise to offer credible opinions on the affects of this virus.

One fact that has been widely reported is that the statistics suggest that those most at risk for this virus are the elderly with underlying health conditions.  That appears to be a FACT.  The recommendations for the elderly to take special precautions to avoid contracting the virus makes sense.

You did the same thing with your opinions and statements on aviation related matters including accidents.  As far as I know you are not a pilot, have no instrument rating, and do not have a background in aviation maintenance.

If you want to cut and paste news articles that we all can find and read ourselves, that is fine, but lets lay off drawing conclusions and inferences that are not supported by those knowledgeable in the topics.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 12, 2020, 09:33:37 PM
Some more bad news about the virus:

http://amp.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3074988/coronavirus-some-recovered-patients-may-have

Only potentially positive news was that they are going to test out some antibiotics they developed for the likes of ebola, etc.

 :deadhorse:


Trench, at what age did you get expelled from school ?

Ebola is a VIRUS..

Did you learn NOTHING in your biology classes ..?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 12, 2020, 09:50:51 PM
Billy,
Your fear mongering on this issue is off the rails!  You provide opinions that are totally false and/or not supported by the facts of those with expertise in the topics.

For example, your statement that anyone that gets the virus will never be normal or 100% healthy again.


I didn't say that. I said don't expect to be a 100% healthy human being if one survives the virus. If you want to believe all survivors will be 100% healthy after acquiring the virus, go for it if it gives you peace of mind.

Article below describes some of the effects on organs from COVID-19. Part of the problem is our immunity system goes into overdrive and kills everything in the way including healthy tissue. Some people's lungs will look like a honeycomb after the fight with the virus.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/02/here-is-what-coronavirus-does-to-the-body/

People have long term physical and mental issues from the first SARS epidemic. Learning from history will prepare us for what to expect right now.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/ten-years-later-sars-still-haunts-survivors-and-health-care-workers/article9363178/

As best as I can tell, neither you nor I have the expertise to offer credible opinions on the affects of this virus.


I'm a pretty smart cookie, smart enough to know not everybody is going to believe me. It's why I put a link showing pneumonia can cause permanent lung damage. COVID-19 can lead to pneumonia.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: mhr7 on March 12, 2020, 10:33:05 PM
I said don't expect to be a 100% healthy human being if one survives the virus.

Which is dead wrong, Mr. Smart Cookie.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 12, 2020, 11:51:09 PM
:deadhorse:


Trench, at what age did you get expelled from school ?

Ebola is a VIRUS..

Did you learn NOTHING in your biology classes ..?

I didn't say Ebola wasn't a virus.

Well here's a Maths lesson for you Mobe, no you always insist that lumping the overall number of infections and set that against the number that have died to get to the 1 percent or similar figures who have died.

However, you realise that when infections start going down and hence less people are dying this figure you have is going to go way high even though there would be far less infections & people dying, lol. Go figure that one Mobers!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 13, 2020, 12:27:52 AM
As for what we are mistakenly calling 'mortality rate' here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_fatality_rate#

Watch the video at top right of the page.

Then start putting the math on paper and posting.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 13, 2020, 01:47:19 AM
I would say the CFR is the CFR, not the mortality rate.

Anyway, no more Coronavirus cases in Dorset region of the UK as far as known for the last 2-3 days. As the early cases in this country showed it can be controlled if the chance to spread is targeted. I think they should have lockdown zones here & subzones to make it easier to check it's spread and a general curfew. I think though however that businesses should in the main stay open. To close them like Italy did risks undermining a country's ability to tackle the threat.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 13, 2020, 02:48:43 AM
Been thinking at work this last day or so also when I consider the office I work in, all of the potential of transmitting a virus it is quite surprising. It's more the little things that tend to be overlooked I find like people using the same pens, staplers, hole punch, folders, etc. When you think of how many times different people may pick up and put them down and likely never cleaned it's surprising. It's small items like these that are probably often overlooked transmitters of viruses year after year. Instead of the convention of sharing we are brought up with & using company equipment it is likely to be best practice to each bring our own work out a deal with the employer on the contribution towards such.

Like I say I think different working practises area key here. Some workers could work from home but that's not always possible for many employees at the moment I'm thinking.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 13, 2020, 02:59:27 AM
Back in the old days Vitamin C was used to prevent and treat Scurvy. It works. Today it's used for treating and preventing the common cold according to the link below. Remember what I said about this coronavirus being related to the cold virus? It makes sense what my wife said about the doctors at the hospital are giving super infusions of Vitamin C to coronavirus patients. I call a friend of mine who was a nurse. He said Vitamin C does work but mileage may vary. Some people will benefit from it more than others. I learned more about Vitamin C today and I recommend everybody buy some since it'll improve your immunity system, and good for treating colds since this new virus is related to the cold virus.

Billy are you even reading the link you provide? Your claim is counter to what the very citation you’re providing as support is saying.

Quote
Common cold. There is some controversy about the effectiveness of vitamin C for treating the common cold. However, most research shows that taking 1-3 grams of vitamin C might shorten the course of the cold by 1 to 1.5 days. Taking vitamin C does not appear to prevent colds.

However, if you’re one of those who hoarded a decades supply of toilet paper, then rest assured it’ll come in handy when you come home with drums of Vit. C supplements.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 13, 2020, 03:05:46 AM
I didn't say that. I said don't expect to be a 100% healthy human being if one survives the virus. If you want to believe all survivors will be 100% healthy after acquiring the virus, go for it if it gives you peace of mind.

Article below describes some of the effects on organs from COVID-19. Part of the problem is our immunity system goes into overdrive and kills everything in the way including healthy tissue. Some people's lungs will look like a honeycomb after the fight with the virus.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/02/here-is-what-coronavirus-does-to-the-body/

I thought you refuted the genesis of the strains of coronavirus? Then you provide another link with a report linking the genesis to which you refuted.

Billy, take a breather, man. You’re burning your keyboards Googling. You’re starting to disagree with yourself.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 13, 2020, 03:56:28 AM
I would say the CFR is the CFR, not the mortality rate.

Trench, mortality is usually applied to the general population, like X per hundred thousand die of heart attacks.

CFR is how many that have heart attacks die.

In this case the interesting figure is how many that get infected end up dead.

http://opendatadpc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/b0c68bce2cce478eaac82fe38d4138b1

For Italy, out of 15,113 confirmed positive covid cases 1016 have died, this results at the moment to a raw CFR of around 6.7% that does not include cases not confirmed because symptoms remained mild and passed as a common cold or flu would, or even no symptoms at all.  Symptoms are basically the same and only a test can confirm the difference. Most of those that get tested are already showing concerning symptoms, enough so that testing is warranted.

Billy seems to be using the 'recovered' vs 'deaths', but overlooks that the definition of 'recovered' is folks that were hospitalized, then released. What is not known is how many have been admitted, so it's a very 'fuzzy' calculation and 'fuzzy' result he is attempting.  Not everyone is admitted, only the more serious cases.  Of those serious cases, so far less than half die.  This number is decreasing daily as now more folks are being released from hospitals as 'recovered' than die.

Also remember that Italy hosts as many tourists per year as there are inhabitants, mainly in the north.  They arrive from every corner of the planet. That's around 5 million per month for a country that is around 70% the size of California. Consider the more dense tourist area in the north, Milan, Venice, Florence, Pisa etc consider 3-4 million tourists in an area the size of NY state.   Add lots of cheek kissing, men-men, women-men, women-women helps to explain the rapid spread of infection.  Don't use that as an excuse though, the final numbers of infection per 100.000 won't be that different, just that it may take a bit longer elsewhere for it to spread.  We can't stop it but we can slow down the pace.


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 13, 2020, 04:42:30 AM
Trench - WHO wrote this ?



Only potentially positive news was that they are going to test out some antibiotics they developed for the likes of ebola, etc.


I didn't say Ebola wasn't a virus.

Indeed, you just suggested scientists had developed an antibiotic for Ebola ...  :deadhorse:

Yours and BillyB's 'stats' are as hilarious ...


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 13, 2020, 04:52:35 AM
Just been on a virtual shopping trip with SC

She's been to Makro ( a wholesaler) where they let her in with our UK Makro card !

To gain entry ( in addition to proving one is a trader) - SC first has to be scanned to see if she has a fever ( this is the guy in front!) ..

THEN one proceeds to apply hand santiser ...  in the UK it would be stolen ... ((

Same for a shopping mall - you're scanned and must apply sanitiser to one's hands


I'm wondering why the UK doesn't apply the same rules ?



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 13, 2020, 05:11:49 AM
I'm wondering why the UK doesn't apply the same rules ?

Patience.. it may well come to that in UK and other places.  Especially the larger chains that may face liability issues for just letting folks in uncontrolled or not taking prudent measures.

Interesting questions in a recent hearing in Congress:

Q:  A fortune 500 country wants to test their employees in order to protect themselves from lawsuits down the road.

A:  uh... uhmm... there are a wide range of options like teleworking we can suggest. We don't have the capability to test folks that just want to be tested and don't have symptoms..

(paraphrased)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 13, 2020, 05:36:39 AM

I hate to break it to you and FP, and you guys know how I feel about you two, but it's a myth that Vitamin C is helpful. Especially the supplements. If it has any advantage at all, I reckon it'll be fairly modest. Besides, unless you're on a strict burrito daily diet, you're like getting your daily Vit. C dosage already anyway. If not you're better off with a nice blueberry smoothie in the AM than a supplement. You'll be better off making sure you're adequate with your Vit. D daily requirement to help with your immune system.

Meh, different strokes for different folks. I believe in the power  of vitamin C. What I suggested to Billy is what I do myself. Particularly in the winter months I will hammer VC pretty hard. Yeah I'll take 2000mg and even knock it back with orange juice. If there's flu in the air I'll do it twice a day. I've been doing it for years. That was advice from a doctor friend of mine. He does it to.

In Wuhan they are finding VC therapy helpful in combating the virus for those infected and many of those not infected and taking heavy doses are not getting infected. I do understand what you believe about the smoothies but in many instances it's just not enough. Better living through chemistry. Everyone's best bet short of the cure is a strong immune system
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 13, 2020, 05:38:54 AM
Something wonderful from Italy ... How 'self-isolation' led to impromptu choirs ..

http://video.repubblica.it/dossier/coronavirus-wuhan-2020/coronavirus-nelle-citta-deserte-si-canta-insieme-alle-finestre-l-effetto-e-struggente/355736/356302
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 13, 2020, 05:40:39 AM

Wife who's college quarter has been cancelled told me her teacher is currently working at the VA hospital. They have confirmed COVID-19 cases there and her teacher has to wear full protective gear. Seems like the hospital is getting busy and is needing people to cancel appointments. My wife told me they are injecting patients with high doses of Vitamin C as part of the therapeutic treatment. I went out to buy high doses of Vitamin C at Faux Pas recommendation a few days ago. Shelves were nearly empty but I got two bottles and my wife ordered real Vitamin C online. If you guys still have money left over after buying toilet paper, go out and buy Vitamin C to boost your immune system.

There's also a supplement called Energen. It's pretty good stuff and a caffine boast as well. There's 1000mg VC per packet.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 13, 2020, 05:45:15 AM
It was barely a decade ago when N1H1 broke out in the US. It killed almost 20,000, over half a million worldwide. That was killing mostly middle aged people and younger, as opposed to the very old and with medical conditions. Yet, I don’t remember witnessing the same anxiety I do now, and certainly not the same insane deluge of media coverage, and cancellations, shutdowns, lockdowns, etc.

How times have changed.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 13, 2020, 05:53:49 AM
Social media and 24 hours news channels have inflamed the hype.

I'm a football fan and the 24 hour sports channels get most of their breaking stories from twitter and Instagram,most of which proves to be BS...says it all about news coverage nowadays.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 13, 2020, 05:54:12 AM
It was barely a decade ago when N1H1 broke out in the US. It killed almost 20,000, over half a million worldwide. That was killing mostly middle aged people and younger, as opposed to the very old and with medical conditions. Yet, I don’t remember witnessing the same anxiety I do now, and certainly not the same insane deluge of media coverage, and cancellations, shutdowns, lockdowns, etc.

How times have changed.

Your figures for A/N1H1 are probably WAY under - as it turned out .. but the sentiment is sound ..

http://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-02-08/A-look-at-U-S-H1N1-virus-compared-to-China-2020-coronavirus-Part-I-NUWmASvwqc/index.html (http://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-02-08/A-look-at-U-S-H1N1-virus-compared-to-China-2020-coronavirus-Part-I-NUWmASvwqc/index.html)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 13, 2020, 05:55:19 AM
Wife just back from shopping at Aldi a couple of towns over.

Was not stopped for police control but did have an auto certification with her stating intent for her trip. Grocery shopping is considered a necessity so is ok.

No shortages, store fully stocked, not crowded, no waiting line to get in.  Someone was posted near the fresh bread and veggie/fruit section reminding folks to use the provided gloves.

I went to pick up a package at Mailboxes, on the way took a picture of the signs I saw kids putting up yesterday.

'Everything is gonna be fine'...  That's the spirit.

Note: We're a good ways south of the critical areas around Lombardy.  Up north it will be a bit different in the big cities, but nothing chaotic or anywhere near that that I can see from news reports.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 13, 2020, 05:57:23 AM
Meh, different strokes for different folks. I believe in the power  of vitamin C. What I suggested to Billy is what I do myself. Particularly in the winter months I will hammer VC pretty hard. Yeah I'll take 2000mg and even knock it back with orange juice. If there's flu in the air I'll do it twice a day. I've been doing it for years. That was advice from a doctor friend of mine. He does it to.

In Wuhan they are finding VC therapy helpful in combating the virus for those infected and many of those not infected and taking heavy doses are not getting infected. I do understand what you believe about the smoothies but in many instances it's just not enough. Better living through chemistry. Everyone's best bet short of the cure is a strong immune system

FP-

I read the therapy application to infected folks report in Wuhan. IIRC, it’s inconclusive. Further testing/therapy was administered to non-infected folks, the same thing, result is mixed.

I know the virtue of perception. FWIW, OJ have very high fructose content. It is so bad for your liver. Americans have a very high number of diabetics. I suggest maybe a bit of caution. What I’m able to absorb at my younger days is far different than what my body can today.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 13, 2020, 06:15:45 AM
There is an arthritis drug that Italians are seemingly having some success with recovery in bad cases. Was first used in China. Reports are that it is already being used here and stock for each province already ordered and is on the way.  Obviously not a cure or preventative measure, more like the last hope for getting some off respirators or keeping others from having to need one.

Hope it works well and if so thanks China.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 13, 2020, 06:21:52 AM
FP-

I read the therapy application to infected folks report in Wuhan. IIRC, it’s inconclusive. Further testing/therapy was administered to non-infected folks, the same thing, result is mixed.

I know the virtue of perception. FWIW, OJ have very high fructose content. It is so bad for your liver. Americans have a very high number of diabetics. I suggest maybe a bit of caution. What I’m able to absorb at my younger days is far different than what my body can today.

It is inconclusive and I'd suspect the successes probably have other factors involved but, VC doesn't hurt you per se'. One can't OD on it but you can have an insufficiency. VC does boost the immune system which helps to fight attacks on the body by viruses. For me it makes sense. So, rather than buying 10 years of TP and water to soothe the anxiety I'll "boost up" LOL

I am one of those diabetics and I'm a bit of a juice queer. I love my juice but no sir, my OJ is normally fresh squeezed. Water, juice and alcohol is about all of the liquids I consume
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 13, 2020, 06:45:03 AM
...
I am one of those diabetics and I'm a bit of a juice queer. I love my juice but no sir, my OJ is normally fresh squeezed. Water, juice and alcohol is about all of the liquids I consume

Bruddah, are you kiddin’ me!? I used to raze a bushel full of mandarin oranges in one sitting. As a kid, I’d go through a half a dozen unripe mangoes like it was bread. The greener the more sour, the better. Papayas, pineapples, jackfruits, etc.. That’s after having a nice bowl of loco moco for breakfast ( bowl of white rice with two sunny side up eggs, spam, then drenched in soy sauce). The stuff is king, baby!

Result of my blood draw last Monday had my doctor jumping with joy. A1C read is down 5 pegs. I’m currently at 6.1. Literally teetering at the point of no return, Bro. I say, slow down bud. Move over one lane down. No need to speed on that fast lane. Folks like us are near our destination point these days.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 13, 2020, 07:02:54 AM
Bruddah, are you kiddin’ me!? I used to raze a bushel full of mandarin oranges in one sitting. As a kid, I’d go through a half a dozen unripe mangoes like it was bread. The greener the more sour, the better. Papayas, pineapples, jackfruits, etc.. That’s after having a nice bowl of loco moco for breakfast ( bowl of white rice with two sunny side up eggs, spam, then drenched in soy sauce). The stuff is king, baby!

Result of my blood draw last Monday had my doctor jumping with joy. A1C read is down 5 pegs. I’m currently at 6.1. Literally teetering at the point of no return, Bro. I say, slow down bud. Move over one lane down. No need to speed on that fast lane. Folks like us are near our destination point these days.

LOL slow down from what? Any slower and I'll literally be starving myself to death. I had a heart attack 8 years ago and that's when I was diagnosed diabetic. My diet made a complete 180 and I've lost 100 lbs. The wife who's always been a conscientious healthy eater holds my feet to the fire. No refined sugar of any sort enters our domain unless it has snuck in by some of those crafty sneaky bastards hiding it in something or other. No frucose or syrups of any kind. My A1C teeters in the high 6 low 7. The biggest difference for me was losing the weight
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on March 13, 2020, 07:31:42 AM
"Not really, it should be the number of deaths divided by the number of infected"

ok, but why?
since you don't know the outcome of the currently infected, they are currently "alive" but 5% will die later
this leads to quite a variance
I kinda think the deaths/recovery is a more accurate metric with less variance
moy dva kopec
but I'm just lookin at it numerically
maybe there's a non-numeric reason to look at it as you suggest
I dunno, can you explain why you chose your calculation?


This is an interesting math problem, Krim. Earlier in the thread you mention that young people are not getting it. Are they not getting it (they took a test and it showed they were not infected) or are they getting it, but because they are young and without preexisting conditions, they are fine after a week? It would be interesting to show the statistics of who has been tested by age. If this virus only goes for old people, it would have to point to an engineered virus, would it not?


I know that the company I work for has prohibited any domestic and international business travel until the end of May...


HDL
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 13, 2020, 07:53:28 AM
As for what we are mistakenly calling 'mortality rate' here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_fatality_rate#

Watch the video at top right of the page.

Then start putting the math on paper and posting.

People in the video talk about those who are not diagnosed and go undetected but don't talk about those misdiagnosed or undetected and died so they will get their CFR numbers lower. There's a lot of unknowns. We can only calculate what is known. CFR, like mortality rate is based on time. It's a mistake to calculate those currently infected into CFR or mortality rates until their time is up.

Billy are you even reading the link you provide? Your claim is counter to what the very citation you’re providing as support is saying.


Not counter to what I said. There is a controversy but controversy isn't fact. It also said research shown vitamin C to reduce length of colds by 1 to 1.5 days. That research and the fact medical professionals are using Vitamin C on infected patients is good enough for me. Vitamin C is not an anti viral medicine. It promotes healthy stronger immune system which in turn will fight viruses.

I thought you refuted the genesis of the strains of coronavirus? Then you provide another link with a report linking the genesis to which you refuted.


The article didn't claim COVID-19 came from animals. The article said SARS and MERS came from animals. COVID-19 is not SARS or MERS although it is a coronavirus.

There's also a supplement called Energen. It's pretty good stuff and a caffine boast as well. There's 1000mg VC per packet.

When I bought vitamin C, I noticed a few items, one being Energen, was sold out.

Social media and 24 hours news channels have inflamed the hype.


If anybody out there is reading Social media, right wing news or anti left wing news for coronavirus education, stop. All news have been underestimating the danger of this virus. The info the governments put out on the coronavirus can't be translated into something that will cause panic. If they put out the truth, panic will happen.

People complain doctors are telling people go home without a test. Even the Italian nurse in the article I provided tells people to do their part to go home. That is the solution. Hospitals can't provide anybody with a cure, only relief and support. If restricting travel doesn't work, we will come to the point of shutting down work and our countries for 30+ days where everybody stays home. Those sick at home can burn out the virus or die but at least they won't infect others and overload hospitals.

There is an arthritis drug that Italians are seemingly having some success with recovery in bad cases.


There may be stuff out there that provide relief or support to the immune system but there is no anti viral medicine or cure available. A person's immune system is the only thing available to beat the virus.

There are numerous articles and videos out there that claim they found something that works or Lab directors claiming they are close to finding a vaccine. It's all BS. Do not believe anything you read or hear on that until you see an official statement from WHO they found something. Why do they lie? Maybe they want more government funding or they are told to lie to give people hope a cure is around the corner buying time so people don't panic.

Man has been trying to find antiviral medicines and vaccines for cold viruses for over a 100 years with no success. If they can't find a cure or treatment for a weak virus, do not have hope they will find one for a dangerous relative of a cold virus.

SARS came out in 2002. It is a coronavirus which is related to the cold virus. It's been 18 years and there is no vaccine or antiviral medicine on earth. Our best and brightest minds have failed to find anything so the only thing available is supportive care. Your immune system is the only defense against the virus.

http://middlesexhealth.org/learning-center/definitions/severe-acute-respiratory-syndrome

MERS came out in 2012. It is also a coronavirus. It's been 8 years and no antiviral medicine or vaccine has ever been made. Your immunity system is the only defense.

http://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/middle-east-respiratory-syndrome-coronavirus-(mers-cov)

COVID-19 is worse than those two. Bill Gates, who has lots of experience fighting epidemics, said COVID-19 behaves like the once in a century virus we've always worried about.

Do not expect a cure or treatment to be ever invented. Test kits is part of the current solution but it may fail. We really don't need test kits at all. Governments need to tell everybody to quit work and stay home for 30 or more days to eradicate this virus from the human body. It's short term pain for long term gain. We will first try test kits to identify those who are infected and isolate them from the general population but if that doesn't work and this virus drags on for months and years, expect draconian style quarantines and laws. We aren't going to like it but we all have to do our part to get rid of this virus.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 13, 2020, 08:02:19 AM
There is an arthritis drug that Italians are seemingly having some success with recovery in bad cases. Was first used in China. Reports are that it is already being used here and stock for each province already ordered and is on the way.  Obviously not a cure or preventative measure, more like the last hope for getting some off respirators or keeping others from having to need one.


Would that be Kevzara

It is used for treatment of rheumatoid arthritis (RA), entirely different from osteoarthritis so common in aging people.   RA is a chronic inflammatory disorder,  involving the immune system mistakenly attacking joints and is some cases other body parts. 

The  life-threatening cases of COVID-19 infections involve an overreacting immune system attacking the lungs.  So both RA and COVID-19 infections are autoimmune disorders.  So maybe an RA therapeutic medicine is applicable to treating COVID infections. 


http://www.biospace.com/article/regeneron-and-sanofi-aim-a-rheumatoid-arthritis-drug-at-coronavirus/


The US FDA safety laws would prevent use of a pharmaceutical for purposes other than originally prescribed.    Limited experimentation is allowed under very tight, time-consuming controls.  China regulations are different. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 13, 2020, 08:07:11 AM
P. S.

This article explains how COVID-19 can cause the immune system to 'go haywire' and damage healthy lung tissue.

http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-how-does-covid-19-attack-the-human-body-11947643
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 08:07:22 AM
the Chinese data is from their hospitals
it's just a demographic of their patients...

of all the infected in the hospitals, less than 2% were under the age of 18...
I think it is a combination of it's harder for < 18 yr olds to get, and when they do get it, the symptoms are MUCH milder. so they just don't go to the hospital..
but after age 20, the numbers start rising FAST....

ergo..

you freaking hire some teens who are old enough to drive but are 18 or less
YOU do not want to handle money!
so give each teen shopper a debit card that they can use
and as long as the banks are still working
you can wire your teen shoppers their "service fee" at the end of the month
you should hire multiple, in case one gets sick...
but DO NOT ever come into physical contact with them or anyone else
and you sanitize the surface of everything that came from the store, preferably after waiting 24 hours before even touching it


note: pay at the end of the month, so they have an interest in "keeping you alive"
only keep just enough for the groceries on their debit cards so they don't develop "bad ideas" about using it...
they simply shop for your "must have snacks" and drop off a couple of boxes to you once a week....
but you never come into contact with them or anyone else

and as long as the banks, wire transfers and internet are still functioning...
I will be able to watch the world fall apart in both comfort and style

ok...
my prediction?
10 years from now, only 3 countries are left in the Northern Hemisphere!

Alaska, which became independent after the USA collapsed
The People's Republic of Nova Scotia
and Russia...
but Russia's new capital is St Petersburg

10 years from now...
when young people see me, they will be in AWE
because most of them will never have met a person over age 50!!!
I will be able to tell them whatever BS about the past they want to hear
and get free meals and entertainment wherever I go
because I lost all my money and spent all my gold and silver on foolish things
so now I just wander and tell stories for food...

I speak English, so I can live in Alaska
and I speak Russian, so I can also go live in Murmansk in Novo Russiya




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 13, 2020, 08:21:21 AM
It's a dilemma for sure, without the government stepping in and as Billy says telling everyone to stop work and self quarentine at home for say a 30 period how to react as an individual in this pandemic?

Does one stop what one is doing, stop all plans, stop all work and self isolate for however long until this thing is over? - that could be many months :-\

OR

Does one carry on with work and plans regardless and don't concern oneself about the risk of getting the virus, just take the sanitary advice precautions, etc and if one gets it just accept it and matters take their course? - life is not put on hold and whatever happens, happens.

Many elderly with good pensions/good state pensions can isolate for long periods and are potentially more at risk. Entertainment is better these days with many more options available at home, though it depends on what you are into and personal resources.

For the rest of us, there is less of an easy default that the elderly have.

Does the worker or business owner stop their work or business activity and go off to individually hibinate for an uncertain period of time that could prove to be very economically damaging to them and hence detrimental to their immediate and possibly future quality of life?

Or,

Does the individual press on with work or business with the potentially much higher risk of contracting the virus, wait it out for government to step in, and just see if one can survive the virus if it comes about to oneself?

To me it's seems like choosing between two bad options.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 08:28:41 AM
it'll be wuhan

if you ain't workin in a hospital, police or fire station, grocery or pharmacy, or morgue
stay home

this IS WHY the infection dropped there!!!
this IS THE ONLY WAY to stop the massive growth...
but...
once China lets everyone go back to work, because they're only having less than 10 cases per day thanks to total quarantine
the numbers will explode again...

so then what?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 13, 2020, 08:45:08 AM
KRIMSTER WROTE "stay home."

We were discussing this over a week ago.  It will flatten and lengthen the graphical trajectory  of number of infections.

You are posting a lot of crap and redundant comments.    The redundancy suggests you are not trolling but suffering a serious case of anxiety. 

Assuming the latter, please read and reflect on this from BC's post at 8:55 am.

Quote
   I went to pick up a package at Mailboxes, on the way took a picture of the signs I saw kids putting up yesterday.

'Everything is gonna be fine'...  That's the spirit.
 


Please research the physiological fact that anxiety is not good for your immune system.  It stresses the body, releasing cortisol.  I assert 100% of us will eventually become exposed to this corona virus.   Our body's immunity (mucous membrane, etc.)  in most cases should stop the virus before reaching a critical target cell where it can grow.  You are weakening your immunity system. 

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 13, 2020, 08:50:18 AM
Not counter to what I said. There is a controversy but controversy isn't fact.

Yes it did, Billy! LMAO. I even bolded the two sentences, yours and theirs, showing CONTRADICTING statement.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24217.msg529131#msg529131

The article didn't claim COVID-19 came from animals. The article said SARS and MERS came from animals. COVID-19 is not SARS or MERS although it is a coronavirus.

In the article:

~ Such has been the nature of past zoonotic coronaviruses, ones that hopped from animals to humans like SARS and MERS. Unlike their common-cold-causing cousins, these emergent coronaviruses can spark a viral-induced fire throughout many of a person’s organs, and the new disease—dubbed "COVID-19" by the World Health Organization—is no exception when it is severe.

:ROFL:

BillyB, methinks Vitamin C overdose is starting to show, bro...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 13, 2020, 08:53:29 AM

Would that be Kevzara

.....


The US FDA safety laws would prevent use of a pharmaceutical for purposes other than originally prescribed.    Limited experimentation is allowed under very tight, time-consuming controls.  China regulations are different.

http://www.affaritaliani.it/puglia/tocilizumab--il-farmaco-della-roche-contro-il-coronavirus-in-puglia-gratis-658450.html
http://www.tisostengo.com/2020/03/10/coronavirus-da-napoli-speranze-da-farmaco-anti-artrite/

Google should translate these for you if you select the option.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocilizumab

Quote
China’s National Health Commission included the use of tocilizumab in guidelines, to treat coronavirus (COVID-19) patients.[16]. On 11 March 2020 Italian physician Paolo Ascierto reported that tocilizumab appeared to be effective in two cases of COVID-19 in Italy.

Seems the doctors here can do what doctors should be doing, pulling all stops to save lives.


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 13, 2020, 08:56:53 AM
It's a dilemma for sure, without the government stepping in and as Billy says telling everyone to stop work and self quarentine at home for say a 30 period how to react as an individual in this pandemic?


To be clear, as individuals we can't stop the problem. Individual participation can only help reduce the spread. To get rid of the virus we ALL have to participate. ALL meaning everybody in the world. Italy in total quarantine is a solution only for themselves. What should be a permanent solution for them will only be a temporary solution without participation from ALL nations and ALL individuals in within their nation to stop the spread. All it takes is a few idiots that say "Can't stop living", goes to the bar and parties, sharing cups and needles, engaging in reckless behavior which can drag this thing on longer.


In the article:

~ Such has been the nature of past zoonotic coronaviruses, ones that hopped from animals to humans like SARS and MERS. Unlike their common-cold-causing cousins, these emergent coronaviruses can spark a viral-induced fire throughout many of a person’s organs, and the new disease—dubbed "COVID-19" by the World Health Organization—is no exception when it is severe.


The two past coronaviruses are SARS and MERS. COVID-19 is a present virus, not past and they have not claimed it came from an animal. No animal in the world infected with COVID-19 has ever found except in pets that were infected by their owners. The article didn't claim COVID-19 was from an animal. They can't without proof.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 09:09:39 AM
yes, bubbas, just stick your heads in the sand...
and don't worry, EXACTLY as dear leader has instructed!!!

gator, when are ya gonna realize...
I'm NOT the one with the anxiety
YOU are...

cuz, i'm one of those "crazy MFers"
and death and chaos are MY bitches, bitches...



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 13, 2020, 09:15:25 AM
...Please research the physiological fact that anxiety is not good for your immune system.  It stresses the body, releasing cortisol.  I assert 100% of us will eventually become exposed to this corona virus.   Our body's immunity (mucous membrane, etc.)  in most cases should stop the virus before reaching a critical target cell where it can grow.  You are weakening your immunity system.

Ain't that the truth! Things unknown triggers a whole lot of panicked reactions, confusion, anxieties and other stressful responses. You can even see these on this thread. People's minds starts connecting abstract, sometimes fictional, dots and start reacting to that.

It's no different than those toilet paper hoarders. One person starts it, then other people sees it, next thing you know - not even remotely understanding why - others begin frenzied buying. You can even see this on the stock market. Massive unwarranted sell-offs.

The ol' Doomsday, Repent Now Survivalist syndrome - kicking in.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 13, 2020, 09:19:01 AM
To be clear, as individuals we can't stop the problem. Individual participation can only help reduce the spread. To get rid of the virus we ALL have to participate. ALL meaning everybody in the world. Italy in total quarantine is a solution only for themselves. What should be a permanent solution for them will only be a temporary solution without participation from ALL nations and ALL individuals in within their nation to stop the spread. All it takes is a few idiots that say "Can't stop living", goes to the bar and parties, sharing cups and needles, engaging in reckless behavior which can drag this thing on longer.

Billy,

The efforts in Italy or elsewhere for that matter will never 'get rid' of the virus.  The genie is out of the bottle and won't ever go back inside. Quarantine is geared only to buy time to help healthcare providers keep up with the demand, allow time for new therapies to be developed and hopefully an effective vaccine to be produced.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 09:31:10 AM
exactly, it's all about "buying as much time as possible"...
but we totally failed...
and TIME IS NOW UP!

oopsie!

don't worry, be happy
new republican motto

probably a week from now, the Dow will be below where it was when dear leader took office....
it dropped 1,000 points after his speech

so "The Trump Economy" is a joke and totally fake to begin with...
and as Trump puts 1.5 Trillion into the stock market to prop up travel and hospitality fortune 500 co's
he defends cutting the CDC by 20% and shutting down one of the regional offices in the hardest hit covid areas
ANYTHING the USA had to slow this virus down, dear leader made sure it wasn't there...
EXACTLY as he was told to behave....



the reason WE have NO testing kits
and why other countries do...

is because given the choice to use the WHO covid test kits like Korea...
dear leader, decided INSTEAD that some private company in America should SOLELY develop America's ONLY test kit, so dear leader could take the credit for it...
we're STILL WORKING on getting even a TINY amount of working dear leader covid test kits
read what the mayor of San Francisco said about it TODAY on this subject....

dear republicans
take two tablespoons of Hillary's emails every day to help boost your immune systems to democrats
cuz ya'all know historically that whenever republicans screw up something, like Hoover and the great depression...
that a democrat ain't gonna be far behind to clean it up like Rosevelt...




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 13, 2020, 09:37:27 AM
http://www.affaritaliani.it/puglia/tocilizumab--il-farmaco-della-roche-contro-il-coronavirus-in-puglia-gratis-658450.html

http://www.tisostengo.com/2020/03/10/coronavirus-da-napoli-speranze-da-farmaco-anti-artrite/


Thanks.  The first is the drug TZLS-501 made by Tiziana Life Sciences.  It is a novel, fully-human anti-interleukin-6 receptor (anti-IL6R) monoclonal antibody (MAb) for treatment of patients infected with coronavirus COVID-19.   

The second is Tocilizumab made by Roche, a RA drug but not the RA drug I cited.  I have heard Roche's drug  Tocilizumab holds promise.

The pharmacology differences among the three drugs is very complicated, and I certainly will not attempt to understand it, much less post something that likely is incorrect.  I relish the fact that we have three promising candidate therapeutic medicines.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 13, 2020, 09:52:53 AM
Gator,

Yes, I too hope these drugs do help and any bureaucratic hurdles are quickly overcome on your side of the Atlantic.

Time is short.  Are efforts being made to ensure they are available to doctors there?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 13, 2020, 10:02:44 AM

It's no different than those toilet paper hoarders. One person starts it, then other people sees it, next thing you know - not even remotely understanding why - others begin frenzied buying. You can even see this on the stock market. Massive unwarranted sell-offs.
Toilet paper stock should be going up.  (http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Smileys/DarkB/undecided.gif)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 13, 2020, 10:08:26 AM
If this was a UK seller i'd bet it was Trench.

Yes, it's a real auction on ebay.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 13, 2020, 10:10:58 AM
Are efforts being made to ensure they are available to doctors there?


In Florida, we are in the plan and preparation phase, and spreading the word to "Stay at Home."

Thus, we have too few serious cases where any sort of organized experimentation could be undertaken.  I have heard nothing, yet because of the community health exigency and  profit motive,  I presume experimentation in one form or another is part of the ongoing planning.   

To illustrate our present status, yesterday Florida had 15 new cases.  Ages of patients  range from 20 to 83, with a median of 57.  9 cases were "travel-related," 2 from Nile Rover Cruise, 4 from Europe travel, 1 from Port of Entry inspection, and 2 unspecified travel. 
 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 13, 2020, 10:14:23 AM

gator, when are ya gonna realize...
I'm NOT the one with the anxiety
YOU are...


This makes no sense.  You are the one projecting doomsday, yet I am the one with anxiety?  Yes, I have concerns but do you see me make irrational, emotional posts? 

And now you are again making it political.   You would never listen to reason, so I will not attempt it. 

You have not added something credible to this discussion in recent days.  Until you do, I consider you crazed.  Meanwhile, the Russian gestapo is enforcing preventative measures at my home.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 13, 2020, 10:21:47 AM
If this was a UK seller i'd bet it was Trench.

Yes, it's a real auction on ebay.
Paper towels are an option. Baby wipes are much softer though.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 13, 2020, 10:44:44 AM
...The two past coronaviruses are SARS and MERS. COVID-19 is a present virus, not past and they have not claimed it came from an animal. No animal in the world infected with COVID-19 has ever found except in pets that were infected by their owners. The article didn't claim COVID-19 was from an animal. They can't without proof.

For the last time, then I will quit..

CORONAVIRUSES are common in different animals, but rarely in humans. The Inter-specie transmission mechanism, while different in specifics, is generally in the same mold. There are different strains of coronaviruses but all have the same *zoonotic* genesis.

COVID-19 is CoronaVirus Disease - 2019. These are called corona (crown) because of their crown-like spikes that attaches to it's host cell.

FWIW, (avian) Influenza also have the same zoonotic genesis as these more recent coronaviruses, SARS. MERS, etc...animal viruses being transferred to human.

COVID-19 was not invented in a Chinese bio-lab, BillyB. You need to give up on that spy conspiracy. Give these guys a break.

Edit: Here's a sypnosis of zoonotics for coronaviruses that was done March 2019:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30832341

~ During the past two decades, three zoonotic coronaviruses have been identified as the cause of large-scale disease outbreaks⁻Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS), Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS), and Swine Acute Diarrhea Syndrome (SADS). SARS and MERS emerged in 2003 and 2012, respectively, and caused a worldwide pandemic that claimed thousands of human lives, while SADS struck the swine industry in 2017. They have common characteristics, such as they are all highly pathogenic to humans or livestock, their agents originated from bats, and two of them originated in China. Thus, it is highly likely that future SARS- or MERS-like coronavirus outbreaks will originate from bats, and there is an increased probability that this will occur in China. Therefore, the investigation of bat coronaviruses becomes an urgent issue for the detection of early warning signs, which in turn minimizes the impact of such future outbreaks in China. The purpose of the review is to summarize the current knowledge on viral diversity, reservoir hosts, and the geographical distributions of bat coronaviruses in China, and eventually we aim to predict virus hotspots and their cross-species transmission potential. !
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 13, 2020, 10:48:06 AM

In Florida, we are in the plan and preparation phase, and spreading the word to "Stay at Home."
 

Considering the retirement population and tourist attractions complacency could be very dangerous.

Experience shows it sneaks up on you.  Spain numbers doubled overnight to over 4k, Germany by a third reaching 3k Switzerland also doubled to more than 1k likely because of increased testing.  In our rather remote area in the south, 10 turned zoomed to over 100 in the arc of a few days - with preparations underway to handle thousands.

Do take care of yourselves and be proactive.  An ounce of prevention kinda thing won't hurt anyone.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 10:54:26 AM
denial is the opiate of the Republican voting class...
you're all going to OD on it now...

what you're labeling as my "doom and gloom" mr smarty pants...
is called "doin the math"

ALL the infections are following a "curve"
we are less than two weeks behind Italy in THE curve...

so look at Italy TODAY...
this'll be us two weeks from now

hospitals will be performing triage on patients then
and all businesses in the USA will be getting ready to shut down
a month after that, the military will be out in force and we will have the first looting and rioting when everyone is home and havin some of that "anxiety" you were mentioning
so we're talkin
WEEKS....

then...

do ya wanna talk about...
the months?
and the years?






Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 13, 2020, 10:55:26 AM
Seems the doctors here can do what doctors should be doing, pulling all stops to save lives.


Doctors all over the world should be allowed to experiment with drugs on COVID-19 patients without fear of losing their jobs and lawsuits. But if you're a betting man BC, bet 20 years from now you'll read on WHO, CDC websites, and history books that no vaccine or treatment has ever been found.

Italians may be bombarded with stories of cures and treatments to provide hope and lift their spirits which is a good thing. Reading those stories are a waste of time but do it if lifts your spirit. Until WHO makes an announcement something is found, consider nothing works.

 Some people seem to resist the truth. They will believe the virus isn't much more dangerous than the flu. Only old people can die from it. They will survive the virus and remain 100% healthy. They will have an immunity to the virus after they get it so they will never get it again. People should believe in whatever they want to give them peace of mind. I can handle the ugly truth and my mind is still at peace.

Billy,

The efforts in Italy or elsewhere for that matter will never 'get rid' of the virus.  The genie is out of the bottle and won't ever go back inside. Quarantine is geared only to buy time to help healthcare providers keep up with the demand, allow time for new therapies to be developed and hopefully an effective vaccine to be produced.

There is a real chance we can get rid of this virus. The world has successfully stopped other pandemics and epidemics. This one will be harder to stop but we have shown we can get it done. First we need to slow the spread and then make sure it's eliminate it from every human body so nobody is carrying it. Although a monumental task, it's not impossible.

CORONAVIRUSES are common in different animals, but rarely in humans.


Animals don't have a monopoly on coronavirus although they are more likely to be in them than humans. Labs can also genetically engineer viruses not seen in animals or humans. Biological weapons have been invented. Although we don't get to see every invention, there is a chance a worker can get infected and take it out of the lab. Until there is proof a colony of bats, snake farm, herd of animals or even a single animal has COVID-19, nobody can claim it came from an animal. If you want to believe China's story, it's up to you. After China announce the virus to the world Dec 31, 2019, WHO asked for permission to come to Wuhan to evaluate the outbreak, study the virus and investigate the source but China denied them entry.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 13, 2020, 11:02:05 AM
[krimster2]  (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24217.msg529162#msg529162)
This makes no sense.  You are the one projecting doomsday, yet I am the one with anxiety? 
Don't know how much doomsday... but yeah Krimster---the last 65 66 /100 posts are about virus. Take a break.
The other posts.. eh the nude beach.
 

FWIW, (avian) Influenza also have the same zoonotic genesis as these more recent coronaviruses, SARS. MERS, etc...animal viruses being transferred to human.
The Spanish flu of 1917 killed approx 50 million people. More than WWI did...Caused by pig infection.  The Hong Kong flu of 1968 almost killed me....caused by pig infection. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 11:02:23 AM
"Doctors all over the world should be allowed to experiment with drugs on COVID-19 without fear"

I have already been doing this for quite some time already, 100% of this effort has been about the medical effect and not the recreational aspect!!!!
no....
some inhalation

but smoking opium...
is laying down
and having a sweet dream
of being made love to
by beautiful orchids
of the most brilliant color
and most sensuous curves
your brain
is capable of creating
bliss...

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 11:03:30 AM
the spanish flu was a pebble
this is not
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 13, 2020, 11:06:29 AM
Some interesting animated graphics showing the speed of detected infections/spread outside China along with graphs over time below.

http://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article206504969/Coronavirus-Alle-Karten-Zahlen-Daten-zur-Ausbreitung.html
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 13, 2020, 11:11:48 AM
the spanish flu was a pebble
this is not
A pebble? 50 Million people?
Quote
Deaths worldwide..20[217] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza#cite_note-:0-217)[218] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza#cite_note-WHOpandemic2009-218)–100[219] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza#cite_note-219)[220] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza#cite_note-220) million
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza#Pandemics
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 13, 2020, 11:15:12 AM
As there are so many posts - I don't know if this is 'news' - my apologies if not ..


http://112.international/ukraine-top-news/ukraine-closing-border-for-foreigners-for-two-weeks-49475.html

No weekend trips for Trench to Ukraine ..

Ukraine closing border for foreigners for two weeks
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 13, 2020, 11:19:33 AM
The Spanish flu of 1917 killed approx 50 million people. More than WWI did...Caused by pig infection.  The Hong Kong flu of 1968 almost killed me....caused by pig infection.


If those viruses made their first appearance on Earth today instead of back then, I wouldn't worry about them. We've come a long way when it comes to making vaccines and anti viral medicine and flu viruses can be beat with vaccines and anti viral medicine unlike cold viruses. Spanish and Hong Kong flu would be defeated much quicker today than in the past and less lives would be loss.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 13, 2020, 11:38:46 AM
If those viruses made their first appearance on Earth today instead of back then, I wouldn't worry about them. We've come a long way when it comes to making vaccines and anti viral medicine and flu viruses can be beat with vaccines and anti viral medicine unlike cold viruses. Spanish and Hong Kong flu would be defeated much quicker today than in the past and less lives would be loss.
No...you would probably die. The vaccines came as a result of those historical cases. People have developed a partial immunity to previous disease.
Read the links available.
 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 13, 2020, 11:40:45 AM
That's a pretty sobering assessment Billy.

Except it was somewhat 'naughty' in it's use of words to describe the situation ..

BillyB was confused as to the meaning of pandemic and as a consequence alluded to something WHO haven't said and would not have said .


That you would fall for a BillyB ASSessment is just what I'd expect ..

Unfortunately it probably ties in with the UK Government Cobra briefing today, at least in parts. There was still bs coming out so as not to panic the stupid in the population such as elating the overall infections to mortality then just stating that I may be higher in the elderly especially those with pre-existing conditions.

Honestly, Trench - could you please post use specific examples that lead you to your 'conclusions' ... We may  have been listening to / reading different announcements.


However they admitted that up to around 80 percent of the population may get Coronavirus. So that's pretty much everyone.

Well there's an exaggeration, already ..it was a worst case scenario.. and 'everyone' is not 80 percent ..

Boris gave a stark warning that we are likely to lose many loved ones. Despite trying to not show fear I think he looked to be trying to cover a lot of worry.


It's a pretty clear statement of fact and  BoJo is a consummate actor .. 

Although he didn't press the point to a specific extreme extent he said this Virus will be the biggest obstacle of our generation. My underlying impression taking into account what you have found out is that the scientists are telling him that initial signs are not good news. They could have well told him it's a pretty dire situation much as you have outlined.


Like your record for reading people ( opp sex in particular) is stellar .  You're 'theorising', AGAIN ..

Some virus epidemics only die out once they can't find any more humans. Basically because so many have been killed off. While these days we can develop vaccines if one can't be developed that is the situation we may be facing.

Hilarious .. Many viruses mutate into a weaker form .. I  was driving overnight and heard a Prof from the Mayo clinic (?) in the US pointing out that there would appear to be signs this virus is getting less virulent ..


The only other realistic hope might be that it doesn't easily reinfect people that have already had it, and/or it has a far milder affect.

No evidence has been found of 're-infection'


Potentially even other strains of it may not have as great an effect. Some reports suggest there may be people having mild cases of it first time around, perhaps moreso the young. If it is possible that this virus ends up as no worse than a mild cold in the long term then that would take away the problem over time.

'Some reports' ...  ?


It looks like this virus looks set to clear away the old to make way for the new.

TOSH..   The elderly simply have more health issues - making their resistance lower ..


If it really does go as bad you outline Billy then there is also the very probable and scary reality of society going into meltdown. The stockpiling going on won't last forever in which case we have to consider there will be little in the way of future supplies. We would need to adapt to find our own source of food if the convenience of it no longer being delivered to supermarket shelves becomes a reality.


Where are their food shortages ?  .. Other than morons who stock-piled pasta in some belief it all comes from Italy and might be in short supply

Here's a chance to make your own pasta ..

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 13, 2020, 12:03:54 PM
To be clear, as individuals we can't stop the problem. Individual participation can only help reduce the spread. To get rid of the virus we ALL have to participate. ALL meaning everybody in the world. Italy in total quarantine is a solution only for themselves. What should be a permanent solution for them will only be a temporary solution without participation from ALL nations and ALL individuals in within their nation to stop the spread. All it takes is a few idiots that say "Can't stop living", goes to the bar and parties, sharing cups and needles, engaging in reckless behavior which can drag this thing on longer.

The two past coronaviruses are SARS and MERS. COVID-19 is a present virus, not past and they have not claimed it came from an animal. No animal in the world infected with COVID-19 has ever found except in pets that were infected by their owners. The article didn't claim COVID-19 was from an animal. They can't without proof.

I agree, though I think the only way all nations will get on board with a 30 day/1 month globally agreement lockdown at the same time is when all nations have the problem around the level the US & UK presently have the problem, i.e the delay phase. Till then there are countries with less of a current problem such as Russia, Ukraine & elsewhere who are likely not to want to play ball. That could very likely set the whole problem off again with re-introducing the virus back into virus cleansed nations. I'm thinking the government's of many nations would currently be agreeable to this method but need to wait until they can get all nations on board for sure. 

I think as you point out Billy, getting individuals on board within nations may prove even harder. Again having it as a problem to the extent that it is hitting them in daily life will likely persuade most. I reckon though the police & the army patrolling the streets will be needed to make sure people stay indoors and ontop of that temporary CCTV hooked up along main residential roads to help keep an eye on it also.

I do think that provided that is all done your solution is the best option for getting rid of the virus.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 12:06:02 PM
before the Spanish Flu pebble
killed millions....
human immune systems had thousands of years of experience with other influenza strains...
not the covid boulder
it will ultimately kill FAR MORE because of this
AND its rapid recombination and mutation rate
no vaccine system
no treatment system
no immune system
no system of any kind

you are totally underestimating what is going to happen not only in the near term, like in the next month...
but in the long term, like the next two years....

you are living in a NEW HISTORICAL period!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 12:22:46 PM
Sasha,

as you can see from the response I’ve gotten from two Trump voters here on this board using my “krimster2” personna,

the Trump electorate is having a “very high level of anxiety” about the virus!
off the chart!

I think in about two more weeks you can start the coordinated social media campaign to “delay” the US presidential election in November because of the virus, I’ve already talked to Parscale about this...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: mhr7 on March 13, 2020, 12:38:08 PM
After China announce the virus to the world Dec 31, 2019, WHO asked for permission to come to Wuhan to evaluate the outbreak, study the virus and investigate the source but China denied them entry.

What is your source on this?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 12:43:22 PM
rednecks...
please have a seat....
no really...

i'll give ya all a moment...
I know how slowly ya'll move...
there, all comfy?

ok...

3.5 million minimum....
by July...

not sure what'll happen starting November, will it get much worse or just stay the same? (not a metaphorical or rhetorical question)

might be time to pull the ostrich head out of the ground now and start lookin above ground instead

uh oh!!! it's a lot scarier above ground than below for a redusneckus or ostrich

now isn't it....

oops!
they just stuck their little heads back in the ground again!!


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 13, 2020, 01:21:46 PM
"Doctors all over the world should be allowed to experiment with drugs on COVID-19 without fear"
 I have already been doing this for quite some time already, 100% of this effort has been about the medical effect and not the recreational aspect!..some inhalation but smoking opium..

Uh....I believe I understand the problem. Just stay away from the meth...that stuff'll kill ya.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 13, 2020, 02:06:37 PM
In case any of you wondered where jone and fathertime is right now...look no further!

LMAO (http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/03/12/watch-amid-coronavirus-fears-hundreds-line-up-outside-canyon-country-costco-to-stock-up-on-supplies/amp/)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 13, 2020, 02:21:00 PM
LOL -

I did stock up.   A gallon of milk.  Some eggs.   And a huge steak to enjoy the weekend with.  But I like Food For Less, not Costco.   Too many people there and the little savings for huge buys of product don't work well for a small home such as mine.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 02:28:02 PM
"Just stay away from the meth.."

n^gger please,
that sh^t's for redneck trailer trash...

i could even bake ya up some from some lithium batteries and a kilo of the Chinese herb ma huang you can buy on ebay
while watching old "Leave It To Beaver" shows...

hey...hey...
remember this, "gee, Mrs Cleaver, I really like that dress you have on?"
If I were Eddy, I would've totally boned June Cleaver...
and it would've been the hottest sex a teenager like him coulda had
no judgements here...




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 13, 2020, 02:57:00 PM
What is your source on this?

Jan 28 article says China finally gives permission to WHO to allow their health experts into their country. Yay!!! WHO's team of doctors and scientists gets packed and ready to go!

http://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/28/health/airports-screening-coronavirus.html

Feb 7 article says China didn't accept WHO and CDC help for over a month.

http://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/07/health/cdc-coronavirus-china.html

After a major stall job and finally giving permission to WHO to enter China Jan 28, China finally gives them the final and absolutely final permission to enter China in Feb 10

http://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-news/coronavirus-world-health-organization-visits-china

Feb 11 Article below says WHO is getting mounting criticism for heaping praise on China and not declaring a global emergency but the WHO team finally lands in China and ready to kick some virus ass.

http://www.cnn.com/2020/02/10/asia/wuhan-coronavirus-update-intl-hnk/index.html

Feb 13, Some of the best international medical and epidemic experts in the world are stuck in Beijing for 4 days and has not been allowed to travel to Wuhan. Director General of WHO puts out a statement “Our advance team in China has made good progress in working out the composition of the team and the scope of its work. We hope to have more news to announce soon,” They are moving slower than molasses yet they say they are making good progress. Brought to you by another quality UN organization.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-who-mission/experts-fear-china-reluctant-to-accept-who-ground-mission-idUSKBN2071WZ

In a nutshell, a virus that can threaten humanity was disclosed to WHO Dec 31 by China after arresting and silencing whistleblowers all month. Then China refused help for over a month, got praised by WHO who recommended travel to China is safe and when China did allow some of the best experts in the business to help, they kept them in a hotel in Beijing, away from the action.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 03:13:51 PM
ok, in the next 2 months...
ya'll are gonna see some sh^t!!!!

most of you will not be working at your place of employment for much longer beyond that time!!!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on March 13, 2020, 03:18:31 PM
ok, in the next 2 months...
ya'll are gonna see some sh^t!!!!

most of you will not be working at your place of employment for much longer beyond that time!!!


I envision you looking like Gollum in the corner with your "precious" masturbatory fantasies of plague (or Russian invasion of Odessa or American Navy ships sunk by the Iranians). For a while I thought you were just jerking our chains. Now, I actually think you are one of those evil fu*ks who pray for death and destruction.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 03:22:17 PM
bingo!!!
Sasha
3 MFing rednecks, I bagged here on RWD, he's my third!
you owe me 1,000 rubles!

gozpedy!
see how easy it was, I've never had hits like this before...
seriously, get behind Bradscale's effort to "simply delay, don't say cancel", the election for "public health" reasons!!
horrosho?
turn on the spigot on facebook and twitter to full!
NOW is the time, they are READY!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 13, 2020, 05:55:20 PM
By the end of February 19 million people had been infected with the good ole common flu in the USA this flu season.

Out of those 180,000 had been hospitalized and over 10,000 had died.

As of today 48 people have died of Coronavirus in the USA ..spot the difference ?

These are facts not the fantasies spouted by the likes of Krimster and Billy..a pair of bedwetters  who have really bought into the media hype about Coronavirus...and sucked up by Trench (then he wonders why he can't get a bird )

What a trio...like three hyperventilating women.

"The flu remains a higher threat to US public health than the new Coronavirus "..this from the Centre for disease control and prevention.

The UK media are demanding Boris Johnson puts the UK into lockdown..so far he's managed to fight them off.

This is because the media want to be able to write their sob stories about small businesses going bust..they love doom and gloom.

Then the pro=democratic media in USA can blame Trump for the economy crashing there "it wasn't us guv " they'll say...they won't be held accountable.

The lefty media over here are anti Boris Johnson too..so they're trying to line up the same scenario here.

The media has an agenda ..only fools can't see that.





Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on March 13, 2020, 06:02:25 PM
Agree.  Amazing how things look when put in perspective.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 13, 2020, 06:05:07 PM
Philadelphia Holds a Parade
Quote
In the late summer of 1918, the devastating second wave (http://www.history.com/news/spanish-flu-second-wave-resurgence) of the Spanish flu (http://www.history.com/topics/world-war-i/1918-flu-pandemic) arrived on America’s shores. Carried by World War I (http://www.history.com/topics/world-war-i/world-war-i-history) doughboys (http://www.history.com/news/why-were-americans-who-served-in-world-war-i-called-doughboys) returning home from Europe, the newly virulent virus spread first from Boston (http://www.history.com/topics/us-states/boston-massachusetts) to New York (http://www.history.com/topics/us-states/new-york-city) and Philadelphia (http://www.history.com/topics/us-states/philadelphia-pennsylvania) before traveling West to infect panicked populations from St. Louis to San Francisco (http://www.history.com/topics/us-states/san-francisco).

By mid-September, the Spanish flu was spreading like wildfire through army and naval installations in Philadelphia, but Wilmer Krusen, Philadelphia’s public health director, assured the public that the stricken soldiers were only suffering from the old-fashioned seasonal flu and it would be contained before infecting the civilian population.
When the first few civilian cases were reported on September 21, local physicians worried that this could be the start of an epidemic, but Krusen and his medical board said Philadelphians could lower their risk of catching the flu by staying warm, keeping their feet dry and their “bowels open,” writes John M. Barry in The Great Influenza: The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History.
Just 72 hours after the parade, all 31 of Philadelphia’s hospitals were full and 2,600 people were dead by the end of the week.
George Dehner, author of Global Flu and You: A History of Influenza, says that while Krusen’s decision to hold the parade was absolutely a “bad idea,” Philadelphia’s infection rate was already accelerating by late September.
“The Liberty Loan parade probably threw gasoline on the fire,” says Dehner, “but it was already cooking along pretty well.”
Amazing full story...  http://www.history.com/news/spanish-flu-pandemic-response-cities
 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 07:03:26 PM
my family lived on Delancey St in Philadelphia back then...

my grandmother told me stories about it...
our family doctor was one of the first people that my family knew who died from the Spanish Flu

as the hospitals, and morgues overflowed, they started putting bodies in "ice houses" no one knows what those are today!
and when they were full...
they just started dumping the bodies in the city parks, usually wrapped in something...

such a park was located a few hundred yards from where my family lived...

amazingly no one in my immediate family died from the Spanish Flu

but 6 years earlier my grandmother lost her two oldest children to measles, their deaths were just two weeks apart
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 07:11:52 PM
guys, I'm sorry to have to tell you all this BUT...

what is going to happen in the USA (and I assume the rest of the whole f&cking world, south of the 30th parallel)
is going to be much, much worse than what happend with the Spanish Flu, much, much worse

and that's ONLY over the next year...
I don't think ANYONE knows if this is a perennial that keeps coming back each year or not
like a rosebud

I hope it goes away, or there is some effective treatment discovered, or a vaccine, after the first year
but even IF one of these does happen...
this is STILL going to be MUCH WORSE than the Spanish Flu, and kill far more people just in the first year than the Spanish Flu....
we know more and more strains will be coming faster and faster as a greater number are infected

but the part NO ONES KNOWS...
is what happens in the next Flu Season and the one after that...
will this disappear?
or stay more or less the same
or get much worse like it did in China in December and January...

in 3 more months we will have more infections than China has today, don't you guys understand this yet?

the USA is going to be a collection of virus hot spots
which is basically ALL major population centers...
my wife and children are currently living inside one of the hot zones
and I expect that their area will be quarantined for them to either leave or me to enter
by the end of next month like Italy today

they will self quarintine
and so will I

I will disconnect myself from the outside world, not watch the news, etc
and only watch old "Leave It To Beaver and "Mr Ed" episodes...

then a year from now, I'm gonna take lots of drugs and go check and see what happened to the world
it's gonna be a trip to freakin remember, the highest I will ever be in my life when I go and look!!
even if nothing at all happens, or if the world comes to a freakin end, I'm still planning on having a good time
as usual...

laughing at you dumb phuques!!

hahaha

one day, I'm gonna stop posting, and when ya'll wonder if I died or not...
on RWD's "Survivor Forum" who's' alive and who's not....

I'm gonna go "na-na"
dumb phuques

or not...
and just let ya'll think I'm dead...

hahahaha







Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 13, 2020, 07:37:48 PM
As there are so many posts - I don't know if this is 'news' - my apologies if not ..


http://112.international/ukraine-top-news/ukraine-closing-border-for-foreigners-for-two-weeks-49475.html

No weekend trips for Trench to Ukraine ..

Ukraine closing border for foreigners for two weeks

 :(
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on March 13, 2020, 07:42:58 PM
Beginning to think Krimster is psycho.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 13, 2020, 07:45:17 PM
Except it was somewhat 'naughty' in it's use of words to describe the situation ..

BillyB was confused as to the meaning of pandemic and as a consequence alluded to something WHO haven't said and would not have said .


That you would fall for a BillyB ASSessment is just what I'd expect ..

Honestly, Trench - could you please post use specific examples that lead you to your 'conclusions' ... We may  have been listening to / reading different announcements.

Well there's an exaggeration, already ..it was a worst case scenario.. and 'everyone' is not 80 percent ..


It's a pretty clear statement of fact and  BoJo is a consummate actor .. 


Like your record for reading people ( opp sex in particular) is stellar .  You're 'theorising', AGAIN ..

Hilarious .. Many viruses mutate into a weaker form .. I  was driving overnight and heard a Prof from the Mayo clinic (?) in the US pointing out that there would appear to be signs this virus is getting less virulent ..

No evidence has been found of 're-infection'


'Some reports' ...  ?

TOSH..   The elderly simply have more health issues - making their resistance lower ..



Where are their food shortages ?  .. Other than morons who stock-piled pasta in some belief it all comes from Italy and might be in short supply

Here's a chance to make your own pasta ..

Went to the same Asda superstore just outside Cardiff tonight like I did last week only tonight the shelves were even more empty than last week. No toilet roll whatsoever compared to a low stock on a couple of pallets a week ago. Hand wash was just being restocked with a few bottles though I have plenty of that now, a lot of the tinned food had gone and a lot of the meats had gone. Never really seen many of the isles looking do emptyish. So e Ilse's still had a fair stock of the other stuff but in general the place looked like it had just been ransacked, lol.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 13, 2020, 07:45:55 PM
By the end of February 19 million people had been infected with the good ole common flu in the USA this flu season.

Out of those 180,000 had been hospitalized and over 10,000 had died.


Do you know how governments and private organizations react to those numbers? They don't. Do you know how governments and private organizations react to a pathogen that can destroy a good portion of the human race, severely decrease the lifespan of the surviving humans, change our behavior and way of living if we let it get out of control? Open your eyes to see how it's done. After reading all the real facts about the virus, you still don't understand it. I'm thankful you aren't in charge of anybody's life.


ok, in the next 2 months...
ya'll are gonna see some sh^t!!!!


Krim, Trump did a good job limiting the virus from infecting Americans by taking quicker and better actions than most nations. We will be better off than Europe.

How do we know that without test kits? Contrary to popular belief test kits isn't the only way to know how many people are infected. America is 5.5 times bigger than Italy. Italy right now has 17,660 infected and 1226 deaths after skyrocketing increases in numbers. If America was doing as bad as Italy, we would have 97,130 and 6,743 deaths in a matter of a week just like them.

How did Italy know to lockdown their nation before test kits started to reveal truth which provided us with their skyrocketing numbers? This is how smart people figure out the truth without a test kit. Doctors document cases of illness and death. Even if they didn't know the infections and deaths were COVID-19 related because no test kit was available, they would record the cause as influenza. We have an idea of what the flu rate is this time of year and if the numbers skyrocket, obviously a portion of that number is not the flu but COVID-19. when Italian officials figured what is normal for flu this time of year, they can deduct that from total of cases  and come up with a number that can be blamed on COVID-19. That number was alarming so Italy announced a nationwide lockdown over a virus that's out of control and much more deadlier than the flu before widespread use of test kits.

Look at Chelseaboy's numbers on American flu. Americans have 19 million people infected and 10,000 died average from the flu each year. Now imagine our COVID-19 problem was as bad as Italy's and we have 97,130 Americans infected and 6,743 people died for the week. We have a sample pool of people to gauge where this is going. We do not need to wait a year to see this is much more dangerous than the flu.

Also another way of telling something is not right is to look what is happening in hospitals. Italy's health care system is stressed out. America's is not and if we had an epidemic, our hospitals would be full even if people didn't know they had COVID-19. I live in the most COVID-19 infected and deadliest county in America and we are not even at the point of getting locked down because we are not as bad off as Italy. Hospitals in my area are not stressed out although they are busier than normal. My county has more COVID-19 recorded deaths than the rest of America combined yet we aren't locked down. That means to me most of America is better off than King County. People don't see the danger because the problem is in it's infancy and the current low amount of infections and deaths gives them the conclusion this virus isn't dangerous. Give every person on earth a taste of this virus and maybe they'll "get it" after seeing the numbers? We have a small sample pool to understand it will be catastrophic for humanity if every person on earth got this virus just once. With evolving strains of the virus to trick our immune systems, we will continue to get it over and over and over again.

Although Trump banned individuals who been in China starting January 31, On Feb 28 WHO still did not agree and made the statement "WHO continues to advise against the application of travel or trade restrictions to countries experiencing COVID-19 outbreaks." I'm sure Trump saved lives while WHO tried hard to help China's tourism industry and economy. There are claims China has the virus under control right now. Anybody believe it? Do you think vacationing in China is safe at this time?

http://www.who.int/news-room/articles-detail/updated-who-recommendations-for-international-traffic-in-relation-to-covid-19-outbreak
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 07:56:58 PM
"We will be better off than Europe."

100% untrue...
just the opposite, because soon Italy's number of new infections will decline
while ours is going to continue to skyrocket...
instead of the USA being 12 days BEHIND Italy...
we are going to be AHEAD of them...

the longer we hold off self quarantining the larger the number of infected
and the larger the number of infected
the longer it'll last

Trump is your god damned Reverand Jim Jones dumb phuques
and America is gonna be just a giant-assed Jonestown
but the kool-aid is gonna drink you this time

don't you all freakin get it yet?

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 13, 2020, 07:57:52 PM
Well, it looks like this Coronavirus pandemic thing may soon be over, it looks like British scientists have beaten the rest of the world too it and have created a vaccine: :clapping:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1255083/uk-coronavirus-british-scientists-vaccine-coronavirus-cure-latest

Looks like things might soon be back to normal :D It will take a few weeks to get the human trials done but this can be speeded up by just accosting a few Oirishmen like Mobers and using them as unwilling guinea pigs.

Tell you what this will be one big slap in the bollocks to the EU withdrawing it's science organisation from the UK. Looks like we are getting on very well without them ;D
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 08:03:26 PM
did you mean "close to creating a vaccine"
as in you're close to getting a Ukrainian girlfriend....

oh...
ya want some ointment for the burn I just gave you?

hey, can't you see "I'm working here" "on the job"
trying to bag my 4th redneck?

you're from the freakin Midlands, a "tradesman", you must dream of being a redneck in the USA...
you're not my quarry...
sorry
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 13, 2020, 08:05:29 PM

in 3 more months we will have more infections than China has today, don't you guys understand this yet?


You are correct.  Actually, I believe you are underestimating because the US will have even more infections than China reported because of greatly expanded testing. 

Reality check:  Tripling your high scenario estimate of COVID-19 infections is still less than one percent  of the H1N1 infections.

Here's the math if you don't believe me: 

     -  China's total cases today is about 81,000 (your estimate for the US three months from now). 

     -  My estimate is that we will be much higher unless our social distancing and other measure flatten the curve.   But let's go with 3x your estimate.   

      -  Thus,  81,000 x 3 = 243,000 infections by mid-June 2020. 


Compare 3X China (243,000 infections)   with H1N1 statistics for the US for the 12 months of 12 April 2008 - 10 April 2009:

        Total cases of infection:     61,000,000
        Total hospitalizations:            270,000
        Total Deaths:                          12,000


3x your estimate is still less than the number hospitalized.   And less than one percent of total cases.   

I don't recall people in 2009-2010 losing their minds.  Your scare tactics seem more like the Democrat's third attempt  to take out Trump after failing with the Mueller investigation and the impeachment.         

You are not psycho.  You are not suffering from anxiety.  You simply being absurdly political on the tails of a pandemic.    That's disingenuous.   Sinking to a new low level in front of our eyes.  You and your candidate Joe Biden in decline.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 08:15:43 PM
"Krimster is psycho."

this is EXACTLY how Russians describe me...
except it's pronounced more "psyche" than "psycho"

and they point their fingers at their head when they utter these "slova"...

it's an image I cultivate
somewhat along the line, "better to be feared than loved"
tra-la-la

but...

how many rednecks did I bag tonight sasha, kakoy u menya schet? 
what's my score am I at 4 now?

gozpedy!!!

but hey, were any of you "butthurt" rednecks
sorry, when latina mothers were forcibly separated from their children and put in cages
and some of them got sick and died

were ya sorry then...
cuz only someone psycho would want to do something like that





Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 13, 2020, 08:27:28 PM
I don't recall people in 2009-2010 losing their minds. 
 

They didn't lose their minds. I was on these forums back then and don't remember people talking about the swine flu pandemic. I searched and seems like a didn't make a single post about swine flu. But this new virus is much more dangerous than the swine flu and there is little hope that a vaccine or anti viral medicine will be found. In a matter of months, a swine flu vaccine was discovered.

If it was one nation acting strange closing it's borders with other nations, we can claim a person with anxiety is running that country but all nations are closing their borders with all nations with a few thousand infections. Think about that. All governments are acting the same. They agree on something about the virus.

Well, it looks like this Coronavirus pandemic thing may soon be over, it looks like British scientists have beaten the rest of the world too it and have created a vaccine: :clapping:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1255083/uk-coronavirus-british-scientists-vaccine-coronavirus-cure-latest


After what I said earlier, you believe that? Do you know how many articles and interviews are out there that talk about how close a lab is to discovering a cure? These stories are in every country. If you like what that UK lab is doing, call up your government and tell them to give that lab more of your tax dollars to reward them. I don't blame those labs. If I were an owner of a lab, I'd reach out to the media that's hungry for stories and breaking news and tell them what a good job my lab is doing too.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 13, 2020, 08:29:44 PM
In case any of you wondered where jone and fathertime is right now...look no further!

LMAO (http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/03/12/watch-amid-coronavirus-fears-hundreds-line-up-outside-canyon-country-costco-to-stock-up-on-supplies/amp/)
I missed the costco line today, but my daughter tells me the line at trader joe's was out the door too.    I just worked away like a little mole all day.   
Got notice that daughter's college classes are no longer going to be on campus for the rest of the semester now.  All the school districts in this area are closed too. 

It seems the nation is starting to get much more serious about this virus.   It doesn't appear to be a hoax, but it also seems there aren't too many bodies piling up just yet. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 08:33:03 PM
“Thus,  81,000 x 3 = 243,000 infections by mid-June 2020.....

way, way, low..
sorry...
we’ll have that number a month before that...

and it’ll then double in the next 4 days after that
and then again
and then again
and then...

there will be mass burials and cremations going on long before then in the USA
and you’ll see what I’m saying is correct about a month from now
will not matter who the hell you vote for
cuz they won’t take office til January
Jonestown will have already happened
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 13, 2020, 08:38:11 PM
Considering the retirement population and tourist attractions complacency could be very dangerous.

Complacency is the wrong descriptor.  Tourist attractions are closing if not already closed.  The same with schools.  Senior centers are undertaking strong disinfection measures, and routines are changing.
 

Quote
Experience shows it sneaks up on you. 

Agree, yet we have few cases today, and most are travel related.  Few have been hospitalized.  I expect a future wave soon from community spreading. 

The state and local health systems have had adequate time to prepare.  I play golf with the heads of two different ER departments.  They expect most cases to be sent home.  Testing was limited in the beginning, yet is undergoing dramatic and wholesale changes.     

 

Quote
Do take care of yourselves and be proactive.  An ounce of prevention kinda thing won't hurt anyone.

In the not too distant future I expect to be looking in the rear-view mirror at this episode.  If so, a cause for celebration. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 08:44:27 PM

objects in the mirror are closer than they appear
don't turn around...
on the dark highway you're gonna be racing on in a couple of months..
some things are just better NOT to be seen...

you guys really don't have any idea of the sh%t storm coming your way, now do ya?
virus is only gonna be PART of that...
it's the negative feedback loop this creates, that breaks the whole freakin world, permanently
with depression and war and disease and starvation

starting...well...
now, actually!!




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 13, 2020, 08:45:03 PM
"Thus,  81,000 x 3 = 243,000 infections by mid-June 2020....." 

 ...way, way, low..

Then why did you write "in 3 more months we will have more infections than China has today, don't you guys understand this yet?"

I find you impossible.       
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 08:52:21 PM
in 3 months, the number will be HIGHER than China's current number AND
higher than the number you propose...

how the f&ck did you guys EVER win WWII against freaking Nazis and Japs at the same freakin time
and now look at ya...

I don't understand...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 13, 2020, 08:56:18 PM
did you mean "close to creating a vaccine"
as in you're close to getting a Ukrainian girlfriend....
                                                              (http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Smileys/DarkB/cheesy.gif)
 
 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 13, 2020, 09:00:48 PM
in 3 months, the number will be HIGHER than China's current number AND
higher than the number you propose...

Next time, say what you mean the first time.  Even so, H1N1 will likely be more pervasive than COVID-19. 



Quote
how the f&ck did you guys EVER win WWII against freaking Nazis and Japs at the same freakin time
and now look at ya...

I don't understand...


Few liberals then.  A nation of hard working, God fearing patriots. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 13, 2020, 09:02:14 PM
No one posted anything, yet I find the the expansion of laboratory testing featuring a partnership between the public and private sectors another example of Trump's ability to get things done. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 13, 2020, 09:07:00 PM
somehow Korea, a country with less than 10% our population and wealth
tests more people in one day, then we have in the last couple of months
trump's biggest accomplishment has been reading the teleprompter without making too many major mistakes
just a lot of little ones, which is pretty damned good for him

all the things he tried to hide
will be revealed on the other side

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 13, 2020, 09:41:31 PM
Well, it looks like this Coronavirus pandemic thing may soon be over, it looks like British scientists have beaten the rest of the world too it and have created a vaccine: :clapping:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1255083/uk-coronavirus-british-scientists-vaccine-coronavirus-cure-latest

Looks like things might soon be back to normal :D It will take a few weeks to get the human trials done but this can be speeded up by just accosting a few Oirishmen like Mobers and using them as unwilling guinea pigs.

Tell you what this will be one big slap in the bollocks to the EU withdrawing it's science organisation from the UK. Looks like we are getting on very well without them ;D

Taken from the Daily Express and mentions working in Paris ..  Trench, thinks Ebola can be undone with antibiotics ..
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 13, 2020, 11:18:20 PM
No one posted anything, yet I find the the expansion of laboratory testing featuring a partnership between the public and private sectors another example of Trump's ability to get things done.


Don't you mean his ability to screw things up ?

This is a President who announces stuff on Twitter and then spends his time explaining why he 'meant something else',  :rolleyes:

Outside the US we are in constant wonderment as to the magic dust he must be sprinkling overhead to allow such continuous gaffes to be over-looked ..  Some on here even think such negative observations are 'envy' (?!)

Lest you think my stance is a British / Oirish 'thang' .. this headline is from Switzerland


"Coronavirus: Trump fait volte-face et met l'Amérique en état d’urgence"


http://www.heidi.news/articles/coronavirus-trump-fait-volte-face-et-declare-l-etat-d-urgence  (http://www.heidi.news/articles/coronavirus-trump-fait-volte-face-et-declare-l-etat-d-urgence)


Over in the UK ... we have our v.own 'mini Trampu' - so don't take it personally !
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Brillynt on March 13, 2020, 11:47:15 PM
Ukraine has announced that they are canceling all flights in and out of Ukraine starting on the 18th of March.  All Ukrainian citizens need to get back to the country by the 17th if they are flying.  Land crossings will still be allowed.  I have not seen how long this flight ban will last.

I was able to book a flight out for the 16th for a reasonable amount. Yesterday I was looking at UIA flights and they were $640 KBP to JFK, today they are starting at $900.

It should be interesting to see if I am able to get back to the USA successfully.

On a side note.

I have been trying for 3 days to contact Lufthansa to see what was happening with their flights. My original flights on the 28th were booked through them.
I call the phone number and only get
  A) no answer.
  B) Answers and recorded message saying due to extreme call volume please call back later, then the call is dropped.
  C) Answers and on hold for exactly 34 minutes and then the call is dropped.

Needless to say I am not impressed with Lufthansa's customer service.

I had called United since I am a premier member with them and they answered and I had a agent in 15 minutes, unfortunately they were not able to help since the ticket was not originally booked through them even though some of my flights are United flights.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: IvanM07 on March 14, 2020, 03:38:40 AM

Don't you mean his ability to screw things up ?

This is a President who announces stuff on Twitter and then spends his time explaining why he 'meant something else',  :rolleyes:

Outside the US we are in constant wonderment as to the magic dust he must be sprinkling overhead to allow such continuous gaffes to be over-looked ..  Some on here even think such negative observations are 'envy' (?!)

Lest you think my stance is a British / Oirish 'thang' .. this headline is from Switzerland


"Coronavirus: Trump fait volte-face et met l'Amérique en état d’urgence"


http://www.heidi.news/articles/coronavirus-trump-fait-volte-face-et-declare-l-etat-d-urgence  (http://www.heidi.news/articles/coronavirus-trump-fait-volte-face-et-declare-l-etat-d-urgence)


Over in the UK ... we have our v.own 'mini Trampu' - so don't take it personally !

Adorbs. Look at the haters try. Damned if you do damned if you dont.

A month ago trump was hated for being the racist that cut off China flights now he's a dick that waited a week to call a national emergency. Honestly with these people you can't win.

They're adorable raging in the wind though, I'll give 'em that.

Best to ignore or troll and piss on them. Honestly the latter is far more fun. Seeing a troll whine is incredibly fun.

Boomers like him don't know how to react to that ;)

Anyways to the real info. It will get bad. If Germany is right, 50% will be infected. I think it will be fine in the end, not the apocalypse but still bad.

I'm already taking a mini vacation working remote.

Our grandma is 92, we took her out of the Nursing Home a week ago. Didnt trust it. One in ETX biw has the 'flu'.

Back in our guest house for now.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 14, 2020, 04:52:16 AM
No one posted anything, yet I find the the expansion of laboratory testing featuring a partnership between the public and private sectors another example of Trump's ability to get things done.

Gator,

The first case in the US was detected on 19 January.  In Italy the first case 31 January.

Anyone in Italy, or outside can click on one link and see the actual status for each region (state)

http://opendatadpc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/b0c68bce2cce478eaac82fe38d4138b1

Easy as pie.

For Lombardia, the hardest hit region as of 5pm yesterday:

32700 total tests
9820 total covid cases detected
7732 active cases at the moment
836 new cases yesterday
5085 total hospitalizations
4435 currently in hospital with symptoms
1198 discharged as recovered
650 currently in intensive care
2647 in-home quarantine
sadly, 890 have passed

The same information resolution is not available to the President of the United States. Not even close.  In consideration of the lack of test availability, he is working in the dark.  On 2 March CDC dropped the number of tests performed from their website, seemingly not to startle folks at how little testing was being done.

This does explain Trump's reaction or better said lack thereof in a timely fashion, even to the extent of puh puh and rah rah for his fans.  The only thing that seems to have caught his attention the last days is the Dow.

Trump and the administration messaging to citizens and residents continues to be disjointed, incoherent and confusing, often needing to be corrected. Even his prepared speech yesterday.

Good decisions cannot be made when no coherent data is available.  A good decisionmaker should be able to listen to the advice of his advisors and act accordingly.  He shouldn't have advisors that only feed him only information he wants to hear.  Trump does not or will not listen, a well-known failing of his.  The longer numbers are not known and artificially remaining low, the better and more he rejoyces and touts how we are doing so much better than others when in reality we are far behind others, even insinuating it's all a political hoax, or passing blame with debunked information.  He is more worried about keeping the numbers low rather than tackling the problem head-on.  Diamond Princess is a good example of that:

Quote
“Do I want to bring all those people off? People would like me to do it,” Trump admitted at a press conference at the CDC later on Friday. “I would rather have them stay on, personally.”

“I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault,”

When this all calms down a bit a postmortem will surely be performed and we will be able to see how lacking our capabilities are to react in a timely manner to such a crisis.  The experts have already admitted before Congress that we have failed in many areas, beginning with the essential task of providing testing capabilities.

The relative calm I see here in Italy is due to concise messaging, accurate information and concrete actions that are very visible to the population.

I don't only criticize our inaction.  I find the situation in Germany is also lacking.  H in Italy, the government guaranteed the population that stores will continue to be stocked and for the most part, with few exceptions they are.  My kids and grandkids are in Germany and reported yesterday that stores being emptied after a government report told folks to stock up for 10 days creating a run. Much like the US they have limited testing to those with symptoms who have had contact with someone that has been confirmed positive, or have symptoms and travelled/had contact with someone in a high-risk area like China, Iran, S.Korea and Italy, thus far showing abnormally low numbers that would be expected if anyone with symptoms would be tested.

Fortunately, like here, they have a decent universal healthcare system, sick leave, employment protection etc that helps keep a lid on folks having to worry too awful much or panicking when they open their mail after a doctor or ER visit, or get sick and have to pull out their healthcare insurance paperwork and microscope to try and decide whether or not a visit to the doc will be covered or not, budget-busting hospital bills, copays, deductibles, their jobs, having to stay home to take care of their kids while school is out etc etc etc...  - all items which we Americans are just now trying to figure out how along with how much more we'll be asking our future generations to pay for it all.  Let's see how that works out and whether or not folks that need help most will be helped before corporations and big biz that have been raking in profits and not paying taxes.

Ok rant over now :)

 :popcorn:
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 14, 2020, 05:34:12 AM


  The longer numbers are not known and artificially remaining low, the better and more he rejoyces and touts how we are doing so much better than others when in reality we are far behind others, even insinuating it's all a political hoax, or passing blame with debunked information.  He is more worried about keeping the numbers low rather than tackling the problem head-on.  Diamond Princess is a good example of that:
/quote]
The numbers in the US were being posted in the media and easily seen before.  Now that the number of cases has run into the thousands or more they are no longer being reported front and center.   I believe our government is demanding the major media suppress or downplay the numbers based on 'national emergency' as to not cause a panic any greater than is already occurring.

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 14, 2020, 05:57:40 AM
Damned! 250 dead in one day in Italy. I bet these poor souls died a long slow death gasping for air as Italy doesn’t have adequate equipment to save their people. These are literally the sacrificial lambs as these are likely recipients of decision made to just deprive them of care and effort to revive. These are the very people that likely had the most faith in their medical care system and likely the ones that were made to pay into it their entire life just to get this reality when they need it the most.  Sadly ironic.

 He’ll, they’re reporting they’re also out of protective gear for their caretakers. One doctor already died because he kept treating people without one. This is the beacon of social care?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 14, 2020, 05:59:31 AM
In Spain the number of cases rocketed by 1500 today it has suddenly become so bad there that flights from the UK turned around in mid air, lol:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51887707

Spain has warm weather at the moment, something around 20 degrees Celsius. I can't see this thing peatering out as the spring/summer come somehow, if anything it may make it even worse! The warm temperatures making the germs easier to transmit. Whether that has any upshot in meaning it doesn't act like a cold so not seasonal but instead a one of virus I don't know.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 14, 2020, 06:02:54 AM
This is the beacon of social care?

No, it's a system that is seeing the likes of which you may not be spared.

Let's chat in a month or so about it.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 14, 2020, 06:13:43 AM
Aside from medical equpment factories running 24/7 building respirators and other necessities being picked up by ambulances the moment they are boxed, the Chinese Red Cross sent a shipment of respirators, masks and experts to help out in the hardest-hit area.

http://youtu.be/TQ8KCZGtwN4

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 14, 2020, 06:14:31 AM
No, it's a system that is seeing the likes of which you may not be spared.

Let's chat in a month or so about it.


BC it won’t prove anything because according to the likes of you, our system is so much more inferior. As of today,  the first US infected person was diagnosed iIRC two weeks before Italy, YET more Italians had been dying since. Literally 300 fold.

Explain that.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 14, 2020, 06:16:46 AM
Damned! 250 dead in one day in Italy. I bet these poor souls died a king slow death gasping for air as Italy doesn’t have adequate equipment to save their people. He’ll, they’re reporting they’re also out of protective gear for their caretakers. One doctor already died because he kept treating people without one. This is the beacon of social care?

I read that too GQ, 250 dead in one day!!! That's scary and it could unfortunately get way worse, we may be talking about thousands dead in each country each day as this thing rolls on. Like I said in previous post it looks like the figure of number of infected to deaths is a rolling/trailing figure. People can lay in hospital beds for weeks to a month or more before either recovering or dying. So the few cases we get at the beginning of just those that are elderly with underlying health problems don't really give an accurate picture of the deadliness of this disease. The elderly with underlying health problems will of course be the first to die that stands to reason. What Italy seem more cagey about though are the figures for those that are not in the elderly and/or existing health problems category. I have the same feeling that I had over the 1 percent mortality rate (that turned out to be bs) that there is something being left unsaid. Billy showed us that was indeed the case. Here I fear that they are keeping from us that younger people without underlying health problems are also dying too. They just don't want to panic the young and cause mass anxiety & hysteria as that is not helpful. I reckon for some people it just comes down to chance on whether their immune system can cope with it or not.

The UK is looking at focusing hospital resources (ventilators) & efforts more on those that have a better prognosis of survival. They are looking at not bothering with the elderly with pre-existing conditions as cases rise and hospital resources are spread thin as they pretty much always die so no point wasting the resources trying to avert the inevitable and prolong their pain. Better to use those resources on those that might have a chance of survival.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 14, 2020, 06:23:20 AM
Life in Utaly is not as rosy as BC would like us all to believe. He should speak to this poor guy what he thinks.

http://youtu.be/KEQ3Bvuvef4

BC is just maybe too busy googling trump hate materials instead of paying better attention in his ‘home’ country
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 14, 2020, 06:34:59 AM
Explain that.

Italy knows how many die of coronavirus.

We don't.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 14, 2020, 06:42:55 AM
BC is just maybe too busy googling trump hate materials instead of paying better attention in his ‘home’ country

I'm not ignorant.  Three kids in Germany, two here in Italy - one who is in one of the most affected areas and parents in the US.  Guess who I am more worried about due to lack of information and testing?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 14, 2020, 06:43:08 AM
Cases are starting to climb more significantly in the UK, up to 820 now. 22 cases reported in Wales in one day and it looks like cases nationally have just about started hitting 200 or so a day. That is still low numbers compared to other parts of the world and low numbers compared to the nearly 68 Million people in the UK at present. So we are in the position of looking from behind to those in a worse situation in Europe to see what is likely to happen to us in the next few weeks. It is not a pretty sight.

It looks very much like risk of contagion is very high and most people will get it. It looks like this will run through into Spring & Summer with a worsening situation all the time. It looks that unless we take the action BillyB suggests or some drug to alleviate the symptoms comes up quick we could likely be looking at hundreds of thousands maybe millions dead by the end of the year and this thing then peatering out having run its course.

At the moment countries are trying to buy time and that is not a bad idea and is working in part. Even still though this is a rapidly expanding virus so they only have so much time.

Worse still is the situation of how long economies in each country may hold up for under the strain of it all. If an economy in a country fails then potentially society in that country could start falling apart pretty rapidly. Worse than that though is likely to be the individual suffering  that may come about. People need jobs to bring the money in to buy food. People need to go to work so most apart from the elderly on pensions won't be able to hide it out forever. Workers will continue to be needed in the factories, farms & supermarkets. Rapid inflation might occur also particularly in food prices and that may be a problem also.

In the UK I am trying to get as much stuff sorted out as I can in the next two weeks to prepare as after that I can see it increasingly becoming a problem doing stuff/getting stuff done as people just won't be around to do it and/or won't be able to get the stuff. I reckon when numbers really jump here and lockdowns start to occur that many people will just call in sick/won't go into work. That is when things may go south in a big way and those that have not prepared will be caught out.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 14, 2020, 07:02:22 AM
I'm not ignorant.  Three kids in Germany, two here in Italy - one who is in one of the most affected areas and parents in the US.  Guess who I am more worried about due to lack of information and testing?

It’ll be fine BC. We have Trump. We’d be in trouble had this all happened under Hillary, let alone Obama.

They’re mobilizing private industries in every facet of the medical industry. Unlike Italy, the US have 50 state governments that can also tend to its population. Roche molecular is already distributing their test kits. Our engine of resiliency had already been churning.

This is exactly what I’ve been drilling with you guys. You’re all so caught up in dividing people and country so much that you fail to see there are times that crap need to take a break. But no... some of you just couldn’t.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 14, 2020, 07:39:41 AM
They criticize Trump for his directive to protect Americans only to follow his lead a day or two later.

http://www.nst.com.my/world/world/2020/03/574626/world-closes-borders-restricts-travel-contain-covid-19-spread?utm_source=nst&utm_campaign=recsys&utm_medium=recsys
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 14, 2020, 07:56:55 AM
GQ,

And Italy has 20 regions and 110 provinces that play the same role as states and counties in the US.

What's your point?

Bottom line is that Italy has been doing what we in the US have just started.  Think Roche is unknown here?  Heck, they're right across the border of the hardest-hit area.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 14, 2020, 08:03:55 AM
Italy knows how many die of coronavirus.

We don't.

Not sure who you mean by ‘we’, but if the US I’ll tell you. Since the federal government authorized all states to initiate their own testing and procedures, CDC had ceased logging counts on their own and had since been a resource of tabulating reports from each state. They still maintained making the report’s availability to the public. Except they stopped doing 24/7 reporting as each state is now responsible to do this.

http://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-in-us.html

Of all the states reporting, I think Florida has the most impressive.

http://www.floridahealth.gov/newsroom/2020/03/031420-0205-covid19.pr.html

BC, you need to take off that silly Democrat blunders off and try to stop watching/reading CNN. There’s got to be something else to do in Italy.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 14, 2020, 08:08:06 AM
GQ,

And Italy has 20 regions and 110 provinces that play the same role as states and counties in the US.

What's your point?

Bottom line is that Italy has been doing what we in the US have just started.  Think Roche is unknown here?  Heck, they're right across the border of the hardest-hit area.

Again, tell me why the fatality rate is so much more tragic in Italy considering the first known infected was two weeks later than the US? Unless you’re trying to tell us the US government is suppressing these numbers.

Americans are bred to be independent and resilient. We are not bred to depend on the goverment for everything. There’s recent tide rising to become what they are in Europe, but I’m happy that keeps failing. We will never be a country that feels the ‘Bern’. One can see the obvious difference is starkedky clear today.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 14, 2020, 08:27:27 AM
  In Italy the first case 31 January.


Although you criticize Trump's response to the epidemic, do you know why Italy banned flights from China the same day ONE case was reported and no COVID-19 test kits were in widespread use? Italy knew how many were infected and how many were dying based on doctors reports of the amount of influenza, pneumonia, and deaths being reports over the amount that is normal for that time of year. We do the same thing in America. Anything over the normal amount will be considered COVID-19. The amount Italy had was alarming so they cancelled flights from China before a good portion of the population was tested with test kits.  Italy could not effectively stop the spread so Italy reached the point of locking down the whole country before the test kits revealed the skyrocketing number of infections you see today. Test kits are important to find individuals who are infected and quarantine them but we can still figure out what is happening by skyrocketing reports of influenza.



I don't recall people in 2009-2010 losing their minds.

 

I was reading tfcrew's link to flu epidemics. There is a very good chart in the middle that is educational.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza#Pandemics

The 2009-2010 swine flu was a Level 1 Pandemic. It had a case fatality rate of .03% which is three times less deadlier than the flu. The reason so many people died from swine flu is because and estimated 11-21% of the people on earth got it. Merkel figures at least half the Germans can get COVID-19 if it isn't stopped soon and that's just in her country.

tfcrew's Hong Kong flu he got, although didn't kill him was probably a more painful experience than any flu he got. That was a level 2 Pandemic. An estimated 7–28% of people on earth got it and 1-4 million people died. It had a case fatality rate of .2% making it twice as deadly as the flu

The Spanish flu was a Level 5 pandemic. 33% on earth got infected and an estimated 20-100 million people died. It had a case fatality rate of 2-3% so it was 20 to 30 times more deadlier than the flu.

NOW COVID-19 last week had a predicted 3.4% death rate making it 34 times more deadlier than the flu. Using this morning's number we have 5617 deaths and 150,052 infected. I'm going to use the same flawed method as the media and assume this battle is over and everybody infected has survived so with 5617 divided by 150,052 translates to 3.74% which means the death rate continues to increase over last weeks numbers. China's numbers were watered down to begin with so we will continue to see death rate increase. The truth death rate may be higher.

So at this time COVID-19 is calculated to be more deadlier than the Spanish Flu. Factor in the fact there many never be a cure or treatment for COVID-19.  Finding vaccines and antiviral medicine for flu viruses is easy. COVID-19 can become worse than the Level 5 Pandemic Spanish Flu. It took a couple of years to get rid of the Spanish Flu. It may take longer to get rid of COVID-19 and we will have to endure periodic hardships. We cannot let COVID-19 remain in our lives like the common cold which we get multiple times each year for life. Although young people rarely die from COVID-19, if they have to endure 2-3 battles a year with COVID-19 for 40 years for a total of 80-120 battles, will they even make it to be 40 years old?

I hope people can finally understand why governments and private organizations are doing what they are doing although this virus hasn't affected many people yet. Obviously there are people on this forum that do not know the seriousness of this virus. They may continue reckless behavior that increases their chance of infection and prolonging the fight against the virus for the rest of us. There may come a point some or most of us are out of a job. Governments will first tell their employees to stay home. Private business will start telling employees to stay home. Then governments will tell everybody except those working the military, emergency services, food and pharmacy industry to stay home. If necessary to save the human race, the next step will be worse than what Italy is going through. Let's hope Italy's quarantine is effective and won't need to subject the population to additional hardships. The world is watching.


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 14, 2020, 08:29:05 AM
dear fellow rocket scientists of the world!

in regards to which nation shall lead the covid league of nations THIS season...
will it be Italia or America with the coveted “most infected” season statistic?

my soon to be worthless dollars will be on America!!!
Trump will GUARANTEE it!

the less quarantine you do
and the longer you wait to do it “for business reasons”
then the more deaths you have and the longer the pandemic lasts in your territory
Trump IS always making “America Great” with everything he touches
so instead of trailing Italia
we will overtake it SOON!

cutting the CDC budget by 20% and shutting down the global pandemic division and screwing up the testing kits, and not having a full travel quarantine in December was pure genius, no way we are gonna let some little dinky country like Italy be ahead of us, we will EASILY beat them next month on all the statistics...

HA!

WINNING!!!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 14, 2020, 08:39:11 AM
GQ,

The average age of those that have passed from the Coronavirus in Italy is 81-82 . Over 20% of the population here is over 65 with the more densely populated area being the affected area in the north.

As stated before, without testing like is being done elsewhere we (in the US) can't know the numbers of those that did pass because of Covid instead of influenza or other respiratory illnesses.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 14, 2020, 08:53:00 AM
Billy,

there is no way to accurately estimate what numbers are for a flu season.

CDC can only guesstimate somewhere between 22,000-55,000 deaths in the US this flu season.  It's no different here.  What was noted is patients where lab tests for influenza and other respiratory diseases was done and results came back negative for them indicating something very amiss.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm

The Guv of NY was just on TV explaining that numbers there are only what they are because they were the folks that got tested.  It's the criteria used to see who needs a test or not.

If you only test someone that has travelled from an affected area and has symptoms, or others that have been in contact with a confirmed infected person you will miss those that only have symptoms but may be Covid infected.

Goes sorta like this:

"How many cases do you have?"
"Uh.... 55.."

"How many tests did you do?"
"Uh.... 55.."
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 14, 2020, 09:04:59 AM
GQ,

The average age of those that have passed from the Coronavirus in Italy is 81-82 . Over 20% of the population here is over 65 with the more densely populated area being the affected area in the north.

These numbers are all in direct parallel the world over, BC. The ages of the deceased are roughly the same anywhere. Besides, Americans 65 and older is almost as many as the entire population of Italy.

Quote
As stated before, without testing like is being done elsewhere we (in the US) can't know the numbers of those that did pass because of Covid instead of influenza or other respiratory illnesses.

I don't buy that. They may be lacking in COVID-19 testing before, but certainly isn't lost in determining if the person died of influenza - post-mortem - instead of COVID-19. Hell they'll probably jump at the chance to declare this if so..

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 14, 2020, 09:12:23 AM
there is no way to accurately estimate what numbers are for a flu season.


A ballpark figure is good enough. We don't have to have accurate numbers on who has COVID-19. We know WHO reported a new virus showed up warning all nations. We know it's extremely dangerous, We know Italy's average flu infections for January over the years. We know Italian doctors reported a huge and almost instantaneous spike in influenza, pneumonia and deaths related in January. Even without the ability to mass test for COVID-19, your government or any government can figure out many reported cases shouldn't be blamed on the flu virus but the new guy in town. So even before your nation and any nation reach thousands of infections, they put up flight bans and closed borders. Test kits were not needed for them to make those decisions. There's a strong desire for some to criticize Trump but he took some of the earliest and strictest actions that are still in effect today compared to other Western nations. The most important job a test kit has is to identify the infected and get them isolated away from those who are not infected. If this virus was the swine flu and less deadlier than the flu, we could just remain calm and carry on.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 14, 2020, 09:26:08 AM
OMG!!  America is gonna take the Covid pennant from China
we are gonna win the division title this season!!!!

TRUMP!!!  TRUMP!!!
USA!!! USA!!!
WINNING!!! MAGA
get yer little red hats!!!!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 14, 2020, 09:26:47 AM
I missed the costco line today, but my daughter tells me the line at trader joe's was out the door too.    I just worked away like a little mole all day.   
Got notice that daughter's college classes are no longer going to be on campus for the rest of the semester now.  All the school districts in this area are closed too. 

It seems the nation is starting to get much more serious about this virus.   It doesn't appear to be a hoax, but it also seems there aren't too many bodies piling up just yet. 

Fathertime!

LAUSD decided to close all its schools. This move, logical as it may be under the current climate, also causes an unintended consequence. Pray many of the parents of these kids are not in the medical profession. Parents, or single parent, of the younger aged children will be burdened now for having to stay at home from work to fend for their kid/s.

You'll soon see your neighborhood supermarts (Target, Walmart, Malls, etc..) housing tents and makeshift drive throughs with alien-looking hazmat-suited beings abducting Americans into their keep.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 14, 2020, 09:33:16 AM
gangs of orphaned children, dirty and unkept are roaming through the neighborhood...
and digging up gardens and filling their canteens from my pool
a 12 ga with #4 shot sent them all scattering...
I guess that's why they call it a "scatter gun"
but damn those kids can run, like a buncha Kenyans hyped up on cheap crack...

but next time...
it's double ought buck...

I guess I should get my friend's backhoe and start digging some holes out back...

3 months from now, no one's gonna pay attention to a couple of missing teens...
3 months from now, no autopsies are gonna be performed - and Ethylene glycol tastes very sweet

well, while the rest of the passengers, are listening to the "Don't Panic" Speech on the intercom
I'm just about ready to lower the life boat and paddle away into the night
and just follow the "Drinking Gourd" way up in the sky
it will be "A Night To Remember"

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 14, 2020, 09:44:59 AM
We know Italy's average flu infections for January over the years. We know Italian doctors reported a huge and almost instantaneous spike in influenza, pneumonia and deaths related in January.

3.5-6 million flu infections is the typical range here in the season. Hundreds die from the infection and 5-7000 from complications. 2019 was especially up there around 8 million infections. So who is to know if 2020 is high, low or whatever for 'normal' influenza?  We will know somewhere around April-June when the reports ar published.

As other countries, testing started for those from Covid areas or those in contact with confirmed cases.  Testing was then extended to those with only symptoms resulting in the numbers we see today - which is just starting now in the US weeks later.

You seem to be grasping, but ok go for it.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 14, 2020, 09:58:40 AM
"We know WHO reported a new virus showed up warning all nations. "

so are you saying, "WHO was on first"?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 14, 2020, 10:13:19 AM
I've been getting emails from restaurants offering discounts if I come in and order it to go or have it delivered. Presidents and CEOs are describing what they are doing based off the recent events. They are offering hand sanitizers at the door, educating employees about washing hands and keeping surfaces cleaned. Supermarkets are sending out emails they are hiring. I small medical clinic I drove by yesterday had a person outside the door to screen patients before they enter.

1 out of every 3425 people in Italy is infected. Switzerland's infection cases have skyrocketed and they have 1 out of every 6232 cases infected. 1 out of every 5103 people in Norway is infected. 1 out of 6775 people in Denmark is infected. These nations are close to having to enact drastic measures soon. Italy announce the lockdown of the nation when they had about 1 out of every 6000 infected IIRC. Surprisingly, China with dense populations had this virus longer than anybody has only one out of every 17,148 people infected. No wonder WHO praised their ability to manage the virus. :rolleyes:


BC and Krim, my county, hardest hit in all America doesn't have our hospitals full. People are not sick filling them up like what is going on in Italy. Because my county is hardest hit, we get the lions share of test kits that have been distributed. People are lining up for testing and if those numbers start becoming alarming, then I would know based on government action. No government action has happened for the last few days since the no gatherings of more than 250 rule went into effect. I really think America overall will be fine. If quarantines happen, it will happen at the state or local levels to contain the spread. People are going to die. How much and for how long depends on us. People need to do their part to limit and prevent spread. If we lose this battle, our future generations will continue to suffer. Don't expect a vaccine or treatment ever to be found.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 14, 2020, 10:25:27 AM

BC is just maybe too busy googling trump hate materials instead of paying better attention in his ‘home’ country

FFS, GQB

If you want to be 'respected' by those WITH a clue - stop 'quoting' stuff your ( smarter) 'opponent  posted or said or does ( did)


Most cases - for now - in Italy are in a very concentrated area and those ( who know ) understand that the US ( and UK )  simply hasn't got the ITU beds / facilities Italy has..

IF 'we' get hot spots like Lombardy .. there will be folks dying for the lack of kit - who MIGHT stand a chance ..


This tosh about 'hate' / 'envy' is all in your tiny mind .....   


Gawd save us from 'patriots' the world over ...







Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 14, 2020, 10:28:00 AM
nee ha!

to the guy who “did” covid...

most BRUTAL MFer EVER since your direct relatives Ghenghis and Mao...

my questions to you...
do people in the government know?
will you reveal yourself openly sometime in the future?

I am stunned...
I totally see the trajectory of what you’re trying to achieve...
you are so high on a scale that even someone like me can’t see it
who the hell are you?
maybe even better to ask, “what are you”?

will you answer me here?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 14, 2020, 10:41:52 AM
FFS, GQB

If you want to be 'respected' by those WITH a clue -

:ROFL: Who? You? LMAO!

Quote
stop 'quoting' stuff your ( smarter) 'opponent  posted or said or does ( did)

El smart one, repost the above because you simply have a hard time talking straight.

Quote
Most cases - for now - in Italy are in a very concentrated area and those ( who know ) understand that the US ( and UK )  simply hasn't got the ITU beds / facilities Italy has..

Well then why did they NOT recognize this fact and ban flights (they demonize Trump for doing. They had a 2-week lead time) coming from the hot zones, dumbo? Your weak attempt to cover the reality in Italy (did you miss that videc of that dude with his dead sister and his call the night before?), just as the rest of the socialized system, all had been exposed for what they pretty much are.

Quote
IF 'we' get hot spots like Lombardy .. there will be folks dying for the lack of kit - who MIGHT stand a chance ..

IT IS DIABOLICAL THAT THE VERY FOLKS WHO GAVE COMPLETE FAITH IN THE SYSTEM THAT PEOPLE LIKE YOU GLORIFY EVERY CHANCE YOU GET, ARE THE PEOPLE BEING LEFT ALONE TO SUFFER AND SLAUGTHER. These folks are dying in a very slow asphyxiated death because of total unpreparedness of their socialized medicine. Do you even understand that? It reminds me of those 15,000 dead French folks who died because of a two week heat wave not long ago. 35,000 in Europe total. They died not because of the triple digit heat (113 F We nearly have that every year in Kali, man), but because the French medical system did not have adequate equipment to save their lives.

That have absolutely NOTHING to do with demographics and DENSITY.

Get it in your head that you're now facing the realities that had been screaming in your faces all these time that you are BEING PROVEN HEINOUSLY WRONG.


Quote
This tosh about 'hate' / 'envy' is all in your tiny mind .....

THAT, is exactly what that is. You really must learn to deal with it. 

Quote
Gawd save us from 'patriots' the world over ...

The US been there, done that. The US obviously had made that mistake twice the last century. Very likely do it again, too for our helpless misguided, jealous, envious, hateful neighbors ingrates across the pond when they start cannibalizing each other again.

Get closure, 'homes....these are reality you need to face.

ADMIT reality!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 14, 2020, 10:46:42 AM
GQ,

The average age of those that have passed from the Coronavirus in Italy is 81-82 . Over 20% of the population here is over 65 with the more densely populated area being the affected area in the north.

As stated before, without testing like is being done elsewhere we (in the US) can't know the numbers of those that did pass because of Covid instead of influenza or other respiratory illnesses.

And yet nearly 100 percent of those that die are elderly and/or have underlying health problems. Possible but I fear governments around the world may be keeping it from the general public that maybe a large group of those that are now dying (as opposed to at the start of this pandemic in the west) are younger & don't have underlying health conditions. I could be wrong but if you think about it and that was the case and news got out about it what then? Odds are people would panic even more and more likely quit their jobs and go into hibination, that would be total panic and cause any sort of daily life as we have known it to cease. Forget ordering take aways, grocery shopping, getting people in to fix this & that, etc.

I think this as they just keep trotting out the line about 'they were elderly with underlying health problems' but have most of those in Italy of late who have died from it been that? There just seems to be a blank there and when there is a blank it is usually something they are not telling us.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 14, 2020, 10:54:33 AM
And yet nearly 100 percent of those that die are elderly and/or have underlying health problems. Possible but I fear governments around the world may be keeping it from the general public that maybe a large group of those that are now dying (as opposed to at the start of this pandemic in the west) are younger & don't have underlying health conditions. I could be wrong but if you think about it and that was the case and news got out about it what then? Odds are people would panic even more and more likely quit their jobs and go into hibination, that would be total panic and cause any sort of daily life as we have known it to cease. Forget ordering take aways, grocery shopping, getting people in to fix this & that, etc.

I think this as they just keep trotting out the line about 'they were elderly with underlying health problems' but have most of those in Italy of late who have died from it been that? There just seems to be a blank there and when there is a blank it is usually something they are not telling us.

Trench,

BC and Sandro are out there ... Sandro is in the 'thick' of it .. My 'ol Uni friend is in central Rome ... Have you heard from any of them backing up your 'theory' ?

Medical staff are pulling long stints and running themselves into the ground physically

I'm being sent some lovely examples of community spirit in Rome - as my friend walks her dog ..


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 14, 2020, 10:55:45 AM
If we look at the map here of known Coronavirus cases worldwide:
http://tinyurl.com/rc2a632


We see that places that don't have it bad are either current cold temperature places like Eastern Europe, Russian & Ukraine, etc or hot places like South America & Africa. Possibly I am thinking that Africans & Hispanics might have a lot higher built in immunity to it, maybe total immunity? I don't think it can all be put down to chance and the way these governments are handling the problem. By now they should all be having it but are not.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 14, 2020, 11:07:13 AM
IF 'we' get hot spots like Lombardy .. there will be folks dying for the lack of kit - who MIGHT stand a chance ..


Test Kits will not save a person's life. Test kits only identify COVID-19. If an ill person goes to the hospital with pneumonia, the doctor will take the patient in for treatment. Doctor doesn't need to know if the pneumonia is bacterial or viral infection to begin treatment but there is not treatment for COVID-19. There is no anti-viral medicine. So if a doctor tells a patient with a slight fever to go home and stay away from people, it's no different then the doctor telling the patient lay down in this hospital bed and stay away from people. It doesn't matter if the person is home or at the hospital. They have to ride out COVID-19 on their own. The only advantage a person with COVID has in the hospital is that they can get a machine to breathe easier and quicker access to medicine to relieve pain. Medicine to relieve pain can be sent home with the patient. But governments can't trust people to self isolate for 30 days on their own. Test kits are needed to identify those infected with COVID and lock them up even if they don't want to be locked up.

Africa is starting to show signs of infection. It'll probably skyrocket. They have less means to control the situation. After wealthy nations finish their battle with the virus in a few years, they may begin helping Africa.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 14, 2020, 11:12:27 AM
Trench,

BC and Sandro are out there ... Sandro is in the 'thick' of it .. My 'ol Uni friend is in central Rome ... Have you heard from any of them backing up your 'theory' ?

Medical staff are pulling long stints and running themselves into the ground physically

I'm been sent some lovely examples of community spirit in Rome - as my friend walks her dog ..

Mobe, I haven't seen any posts here from Sandro of late. These numbers of people we are seeing being affected in Italy are still quite low in a country of millions. Yet it is spreading rapidly, it very much looks at present that by summer we will all be in a even very much worse situation than we are in today. People before WWI and WWII hit proper did much the same, they carried on as if life was normal, but it wasn't, some people like to shut out the bad news and pretend it doesn't exist and hope it just goes away. It rarely tends to they just don't want to exist in the awful reality that we are in.

Do you know what happens in an emergency in a plane such as like when a fire breaks out or similar and a place has to force land. There are passengers that realise the danger are motivated to survive and are on their feet. Then there are passengers that just sit there or just stand there frozen unmoving in the aisle blocking the means of escape of the other passengers. They just don't want to believe the danger they are in and would rather see out whatever little time remains till the end in tranquil oblivion rather than take a chance however large or little as to making a move for survival.

If BC & Sandro a wealthy as they probably are, retired, etc then they have the means to not have to worry about problems people that have to work have to worry about, etc. It's far easier for them to act as if nothing bad is happening and it's much the same as normal. For them some, maybe may things are the same as normal for the moment and they are enjoying that while it lasts. Things are very much anything other than normal for most there however.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 14, 2020, 11:22:31 AM
But governments can't trust people to self isolate for 30 days on their own. Test kits are needed to identify those infected with COVID and lock them up even if they don't want to be locked up.

Indeed, I think many people that have got it won't go to the hospital with it until or if it gets pretty bad. If I had it I wouldn't unless it was pretty bad, I would self isolate as best as possible or I might just be unsure not really knowing if I had the flu or the Coronavirus but in any case I wouldn't bother to get checked out since the thought of being locked up stuck in a bed with sweet F'all to do other than be bored dementedly for the next few weeks would scare me off from even contemplating doing that. I would not blame others for wanting to avoid doing that also, lol and now so many have got it and it's spread is pretty much a sure thing there is little point in doing that anyway.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 14, 2020, 11:42:37 AM
http://time.com/5801726/coronavirus-models-forecast

The degree to which the U.S. government and the healthcare industry can coordinate efforts to test individuals more effectively — a process that has been confusing, slow and riddled with errors — could mean the difference between tens of thousands of cases over the next six weeks, or well over a million.



Trump's decisions regarding covid, will cause this number to rise into the millions as quickly as possible and he will call this his "victory"
and you guys will be calling for a parade in his honor

see all Trump really does is throw the dart...
then go up to the dart board
and draw a bullseye around wherever the dart hit...
and then he says "look another BULLSEYE"!

and Fox news says "Trump scores another direct hit"
and you guys think Trump is some kinda Wyatt Earp
when in reality he doesn't even know which end of the gun to point



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 14, 2020, 12:47:53 PM
Deaths from Coronavirus have doubled today in the UK with 10 more deaths. All had underlying health conditions and the majority 8 out if the ten were men. Again could show that men suffer worse and also that we are getting to those when cases started a little while ago now. Think that it will be longer till we might see younger people without underlying health conditions possibly not making it. Also that the death rate like Italy will unfortunately likely climb and climb.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Coronavirus+worldwide&client=ms-android-xiaomi-rev2&prmd=nimv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjRpdL0wproAhWxkFwKHRHbBX4Q_AUoAnoECAoQAg#imgrc=u_uyPCybRmliNM
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 14, 2020, 01:30:17 PM
....The same information resolution is not available to the President of the United States....

A long time ago I mentioned the problem with testing.  The US had tested only a few hundred cases, while in comparison South Korea had done tens of thousands. 

When the smoke clears, we will have a better understanding of what went wrong.   We will also know in a couple of months if the testing limitations were a major factor. 

Meanwhile our capacity for robust testing is rapidly increasing using Roche (Swiss medical company) technology for highly automated tests, with results reported in 3-½ hours.  The testing  "can be run on Roche’s fully-automated machines which are already installed in hospitals and laboratories across the U.S. and around the world."

Testing is not the only tool.   We have relied on clinical diagnosis, epidemiological studies, and monitoring by the health departments.   Another effective tool was Trump's travel ban in late-January.    That clearly has helped. 

 
Quote
When this all calms down a bit a postmortem will surely be performed and we will be able to see how lacking our capabilities are to react in a timely manner to such a crisis. 

It will be a subject of utmost interest, with fingers pointed everywhere.  Sadly, there will be a large number of people who fell through the cracks in the floor. 

Quote
The relative calm I see here in Italy is due to concise messaging, accurate information and concrete actions that are very visible to the population.

Calm is important given the news from Italy. 

The postmortem will provide evidence of which nation had the most effective procedures and leadership.  Currently, it seems Singapore and South Korea were the most effective, yet it is too early to make that conclusion.  And any analysis needs to consider the effect of existing systems to  protect individual freedoms.   

Until the postmortem, I see no value in criticizing.   However, if blaming the crisis on Trump lowers someone's anxiety, that's great because lowered anxiety will help an individual's immunity system.   Keep in mind that many important decisions are made largely at the State level, with much responsibility delegated to the local health departments and our doctors.    For example, the State Dept. of Health decided who was tested and not tested.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 14, 2020, 01:32:40 PM

Trump's decisions regarding covid, will cause this number to rise into the millions as quickly as possible and he will call this his "victory"
and you guys will be calling for a parade in his honor


The Las Vegas betting over/under is 130 million.  I took the over. 


Edited to report this as "FAKE NEWS"
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 14, 2020, 02:24:08 PM
H1N1 was one of Obama's viruses, in that it happened on his
watch. 12,469 Americans died of H1N1/swine flu in 2009.

My prediction: Far less Americans will die of Corona virus
yet Trump will be blamed by liberals for every single death.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 14, 2020, 02:34:12 PM
H1N1 was one of Obama's viruses, in that it happened on his
watch. 12,469 Americans died of H1N1/swine flu in 2009.

I made that point upthread. Yet, you see and hear far more panicked folks out on the streets and in the news channels. I went to pick up some fresh vegetables and criminey, I can't believe some of the people hoarding things of whatever they believe will be their survival essentials.

Quote
My prediction: Far less Americans will die of Corona virus
yet Trump will be blamed by liberals for every single death.

There was a White House press conference earlier to give the public an update. It was headed by VP Pence. Dr. Berg (sp) said they have reasons to believe that when all is said and done, they anticipate a 90-98% survival rate. This wouldn't be out of line if you consider everyone is reporting that roughly 80% suffer 'mild infection'. That's taking this from China and So. Korea.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 14, 2020, 02:38:26 PM
Test Kits will not save a person's life.

Perhaps I wasn't being clear .. by 'kit' I meant respirators ..
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 14, 2020, 02:41:31 PM
H1N1 was one of Obama's viruses, in that it happened on his
watch. 12,469 Americans died of H1N1/swine flu in 2009.

My prediction: Far less Americans will die of Corona virus
yet Trump will be blamed by liberals for every single death.

Warning - there are rude words in this video .. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hks6Nq7g6P4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hks6Nq7g6P4)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 14, 2020, 03:10:56 PM
I am sorry everyone!!!

I am going to stop bullshitting you now...
and tell you the truth....

so listen....

we are at the VERY BEGINNING of a global collapse...

the virus will just be one thread of the rope that’s gonna be wrapped around our necks...

the virus itself, is going to infect millions in the USA by the 4th of July...
killing 10s of thousands by then, with most of the deaths occurring in large cities

if you have any serious medical emergency from now on...
a serious car accident, heart attack...
you’re going to die
by the time you are going to hear about mass burials and cremations
what you hear will only be the tip of what’s actually happening

when the stores all shutdown, the government will be in charge of food distribution
either through some kind of a delivery system or distribution centers located in all
closed schools

there will be emergency tent hospitals everywhere, find your closest
there should be refugee centers by then
if your area is getting too dangerous, you may want to consider relocating
to a center in your quarantine zone

millions of high anxiety people who are running out of money, food and hope
but still have lots of ammo
they will be runnin ‘round everywhere
every time your designated shopper goes out
they’ll be running into these people
hundreds of ‘em
capische?
and...

what about Hillary’s emails now, bitches?


Hey everyone!
the covid-19 testing problem is NOW almost solved in the USA!!!!

you can get a FREE government issued covid-19 test!!!

YES!!!  and be provably covid-clean!!  and go through a quarantine zone with this

where do you get it?
at Jarred’s!!!

you know!
that tech-driven health insurance company company that Kushner owns stock in....
they’re selling the government covid test kits, now that the gov is gonna pay top $$ for them

this is why we didn’t use the free WHO covid tests like Korea does
and why we were waiting so long for the tests

“a tech-driven health insurance company, launched the first testing center locator for COVID-19 in the U.S., featuring more than 100 centers today. It is accessible to the general public and more testing centers are being added every day.”

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/oscar-launches-first-testing-center-locator-for-covid-19-301023288.html
http://www.hioscar.com/

ka-ching MFers
once again ya’all got played for suckers
you NEVER learn do ya

so Trump's family owns and bills the government for covid testing now...
and since Biden has a stuttering problem
it should stay that way for quite a while
Jarred's corporate market survey saw that the numbers of infected would rise
and this would raise the testing market sky high
incredible margins and profits
ka-ching!
dumb phuques


journalists please do your job
and report on all of Trump's business interests that are involved in covid testing

did Trump just pass the 50 billion emergency aid package
just so he can pay himself for covid testing?

yes....

and you're upset about toilette paper hoarders?
gezzzzuz!





Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 14, 2020, 03:53:10 PM
I am sorry everyone!!!

I am going to stop bullshitting you now...
and tell you the truth....

so listen....

we are at the VERY BEGINNING of a global collapse...

the virus will just be one thread of the rope that’s gonna be wrapped around our necks...

the virus itself, is going to infect millions in the USA by the 4th of July...
killing 10s of thousands by then, with most of the deaths occurring in large cities

When the stores all shutdown, the government will be in charge of food distribution
either through some kind of a delivery system or distribution centers located in all
closed schools

there will be emergency tent hospitals everywhere, find your closest
there should be refugee centers by then
if your area is getting too dangerous, you may want to consider relocating
to a center in your quarantine zone

millions of high anxiety people who are running out of money, food and hope
but still have lots of ammo
they will be runnin ‘round everywhere
every time your designated shopper goes out
they’ll be running into these people
hundreds of ‘em
capische?

That is my fear Krim is what you are saying will come about. I hope it doesn't, the more scarcity of food that there is the more likely that things will turn very bad. The general public do not generally have guns here in the UK but other stuff will be used. When so e people run out of stuff and there is precious little other place to get it they will have no option other than to use whatever other means are at their disposal.

That's why I think Italy has taken a wrong decision in shutting all shops, it risks playing into that world.

Honestly I do wonder if when we get to the stage Italy was at with lockdowns we would be better off just chatting on as normal. Instead of telling Coronavirus suffers to call 111 and go to hospital we would probably be better advising them to stay at home and see it out. Either they will make it or they won't.

That is what happened back in the day. If it really is just those with underlying health conditions then that will be the size of it, mostly. Those with underlying health conditions and any suffering real bad could just turn up at hospital and a doctor would asses them and see if they could mutually agree whether intervention would be useful or not.

I don't see panic as causing a problem here, I see it more of one of fear spreading and wreaking society. Better to just say 'hey theres's a real bad virus doing the rounds, it's (apparently) mostly those with underlying health problems that are affected so carry on as normal, but some of you with underlying health problems may wish to hibinate for many months or risk the inevitable'.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 14, 2020, 05:25:52 PM
Meanwhile our capacity for robust testing is rapidly increasing using Roche (Swiss medical company) technology for highly automated tests, with results reported in 3-½ hours.  The testing  "can be run on Roche’s fully-automated machines which are already installed in hospitals and laboratories across the U.S. and around the world."


3 1/2 hrs for results? That's awful. If the machine tests 100 people in that time, where are they going to put them all while they wait for their test results? Can't put them in a room together. Can't send them home.

I know guy who knows a woman that went in for a test a few days ago. Test results are instant and she went home right after. This is in King County, WA

I just came home after eating at a restaurant I normally go to once a month. Across the street is a hotel that is shut down. I ask the waitress about it. She says it's been closed for two weeks and was to be turned into a hospital. The fact that it's still not being used after two weeks gives me hope we got decent control over the virus. If mass people are infected, they would be sick within two weeks and we would be using that hotel by now.

H1N1 was one of Obama's viruses, in that it happened on his
watch. 12,469 Americans died of H1N1/swine flu in 2009.

My prediction: Far less Americans will die of Corona virus
yet Trump will be blamed by liberals for every single death.


1 out of every 1000 people die from the flu

1 out of every 3000 dies from the swine flu  Obama had to deal with a Level 1 pandemic. Trump will have to deal with a level 5 pandemic.

There was a White House press conference earlier to give the public an update. It was headed by VP Pence. Dr. Berg (sp) said they have reasons to believe that when all is said and done, they anticipate a 90-98% survival rate.


Wow! Somebody at the government anticipates up to 10%(1 out of every 10 people) will die? I believe it but I never expected them to admit it. If everybody in the world gets this virus once, up to 780 million people can die. Without a vaccine how many will die on the second and third and fourth waves etc...….?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 14, 2020, 05:40:48 PM
I'm thinking that there might be some truth in the theory that there are a lot of mild cases out there that are unknown about by the governments of countries. Problem is that most countries have the 'call us if you think you have it and we'll quarentine (ahem, lock you up!) for the duration'. During this time you will be bored witless, likely never develop severe symptoms and wished you had never called while you contemplate weeks of your life being wasted. Not until they continue testing you and you get an all clear will you be allowed out.

Apparently looking online some people may even have Coronavirus and not even know/have no symptoms. While if this is the case the chances of them passing it on is seen as far less if they at least had a more open policy on testing and verdict of what happens next it could motivate more mild suffers to get tested. This could be important information in understanding how this virus operates and spreads. It could show us that this virus spreads without us being able to detect it in many people and that would make it an uncontrollable virus at the outset.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on March 14, 2020, 06:25:54 PM
I made that point upthread. Yet, you see and hear far more panicked folks out on the streets and in the news channels. I went to pick up some fresh vegetables and criminey, I can't believe some of the people hoarding things of whatever they believe will be their survival essentials.

There was a White House press conference earlier to give the public an update. It was headed by VP Pence. Dr. Berg (sp) said they have reasons to believe that when all is said and done, they anticipate a 90-98% survival rate. This wouldn't be out of line if you consider everyone is reporting that roughly 80% suffer 'mild infection'. That's taking this from China and So. Korea.

GQ, I was curious about the quote about 90-98% survival rate so I looked for the quote and could not find it.  It appears to me that the statement (quote for Dr. Birx) needs to be qualified.  It is not clear to me if he meant everyone that contracted the virus, only those with symptoms that sought medical treatment, or limited to those with severe symptoms.  The 90-98% survival rate figure by itself is somewhat useless to evaluate without defining the data base.  If you still have the quote by Dr. Birx, please provide the reference.  Thanks.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 14, 2020, 06:59:01 PM
GQ, I was curious about the quote about 90-98% survival rate so I looked for the quote and could not find it.  It appears to me that the statement (quote for Dr. Birx) needs to be qualified.  It is not clear to me if he meant everyone that contracted the virus, only those with symptoms that sought medical treatment, or limited to those with severe symptoms.  The 90-98% survival rate figure by itself is somewhat useless to evaluate without defining the data base.  If you still have the quote by Dr. Birx, please provide the reference.  Thanks.

Hey Cal-

I found the entire press conference. I started fast forwarding to Dr. Brix (yeay!) speaking. Hearing this over again looks like I misheard or misunderstood what she actually said. The closest portion to what I said above was when she cited testing results that was yielding 99-98% negative. This would definitely be my bad, if so...

This conference actually detailed most of the things that a lot of people are wondering about. It seems every section of the purpose of this Coronavirus Task Force was given to share with the public, including the partnership with Google in the creation of the website dedicated to the testing. It seems they'll pilot the site this Monday and will first be focusing on the Bay Area. Further travel ban (UK/Ireland), the pending bill, etc... 

Anyway...here's the press conference...a hour and 25 minutes +/-.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvHD1Jcx54w

Just listened again. It was actually SG Jerome Adams who made the statement. I did erred in the numerics. He said 98-99% of the people will recover. It is at the 1:04 mark of the video.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on March 14, 2020, 07:33:20 PM
Thanks for the response.  I watched the press release and did not pick up the figures you had posted so was curious.  Since no one has any idea how many are carriers without symptoms, how many have symptoms and not sought treatment.  My opinion is that the only metrics that have any credibility or value are those that only include the cases that are medically treated.  Futhermore, it would be valuable to break down those cases by age group and further separate them by those with and without underlying health conditions.

This toilet paper crisis is a riot to watch.  How idiotic.  Can't city slickers survive without their ultrasoft toilet paper? :)  They should take a trip to Ukraine and wipe their butts with the tiny square they sell you at the public restrooms.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 14, 2020, 07:47:09 PM

This toilet paper crisis is a riot to watch.  How idiotic.  Can't city slickers survive without their ultrasoft toilet paper? :) 
Venezuela is shipping us some cargo ships of toilet paper so us 'resilient' Americans will be just fine.

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 14, 2020, 07:48:23 PM

Spain is locking down their nation.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51888936
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 14, 2020, 07:53:52 PM
H1N1 was one of Obama's viruses, in that it happened on his
watch. 12,469 Americans died of H1N1/swine flu in 2009.

My prediction: Far less Americans will die of Corona virus

It will be a tempest in a teapot if indeed less people die from this Corona virus than did from the swine flu.   Still not hearing about bodies piling up in the USA, and at this stage I would have expected to have.   Of course there is a chance that the number is being suppressed for the moment....but I don't that is the case. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 14, 2020, 08:01:53 PM

You'll soon see your neighborhood supermarts (Target, Walmart, Malls, etc..) housing tents and makeshift drive throughs with alien-looking hazmat-suited beings abducting Americans into their keep.
After hearing all the stories throughout the work day, I couldn't resist taking a peak in the local supermarket.  No long lines...probably because there was very little left on the shelves.   There was some bottled alkaline water available, which I made the decision I'd rather die than drink that, whatever it is.   There was also cases of Fiji and Voss water which is very expensive so it seems the survivalist shoppers were still pinching pennies.

The amount of exercise equipment being sold is unreal right now...people don't want to work out on those gross sweaty public machines.  Also large fuel storage containers and generators. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 14, 2020, 08:03:27 PM
...This toilet paper crisis is a riot to watch.  How idiotic.  Can't city slickers survive without their ultrasoft toilet paper? :)  They should take a trip to Ukraine and wipe their butts with the tiny square they sell you at the public restrooms.

LOL, it took nearly 30 minutes to get through the register when I was at the market earlier. Trader Joe's and Whole Foods were a cluster, but orderly. It's just beyond me why people are panic-buying. Costco, & I'm sure Walmart, is probably seeing their daily gross tickets exceeding any black Friday they've recorded.

Just read FT's post above...we have polarized experience today.

What the heck is an alkaline water used for? Is that anything like Whole Foods' *Asparagus Water*? :devil:

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 14, 2020, 08:15:29 PM

I got all my stuff a long time ago when China was putting out BS numbers giving people the impression the virus isn't much more dangerous than the flu. I don't go to store but I still eat out sometimes and there's not many people in the restaurants. Most employees there estimate about a 20% drop in business.

WHO declares Europe as the epicenter of the pandemic. 7 more European nations closes their borders

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51876784
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 14, 2020, 08:24:05 PM
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gv031420dAPC20200314074508.jpg)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 14, 2020, 09:00:10 PM
ok, rednecks, listen up

why do you want to hoard food now as opposed to hoarding it later...

i’m gonna ‘splain to ya, “why”

let’s say, each time you go into the grocery store...
there’s a “virus count” inside the store...
kinda like the “pollen count” outside the store....

now when do ya’ll wanna go to the store?
when the virus count is low, like now?
or in late May to July when it’s at its peak?

from now on, start thinking about how to lower your risks!!!
capische?

shop as much as you can when the risk is low
so that you can shop less when the risk is high

my advice start shopping now on a daily basis
and put a little away each day
the more you save the better

I urge others to start a new thread, that I promise NOT
to pollute with pro-kremlin trolling
dedicated to practical survival tips to share with each other

I'd like to provide a medical guide for geezers about what to do if you get it
what medicines are must haves and what to stay away from

BUT...
I want someone credible to start and kinda supervise it
and keep it free from bullshit!!!

just the best survival tips for you and your family
and absolutely NO BULLSHIT!

anyone agree?


at 11:30 PM on Sat night you can still buy some food items on Amazon for a "reasonable" price
I was able to buy a week's supply of freeze dried food for 3 people for < $200, prices are rising fast
and selection falling even faster

but if you bought a month's worth of food for your family online
that's a month's time one of you won't have to leave the house to shop
May to maybe July will likely be the peak months
that's when you want your stash of freeze dried food
so you don't even have to go out and expose yourself




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 14, 2020, 11:21:38 PM
Pollen count is not a bad way of putting it Krim, I'm really starting to think this virus and all flu viruses are more like gas or weed in that it just floats around in the air unseen. People unknowingly walk into it and get infected, they just breath it in or it infects their face. That apart from wearing respirators, gas masks to a full blown hazmat there is little we can do about getting it. We think about people getting it was a result of coughs and touching stuff but that is just the tip of the iceberg, a heavy handed way about it while the virus moves a lot more cunningly with us totally unawares.


I have stocked up most stuff now, I've done it a bit at a time. I've tried galvanising other family members into action where I can with caring degrees of success so if a shortage hits we are not being weighed down a lot giving other family members who haven't bothered a lot of the stock. I think it's better to be prepared as the old boy scout motto goes even if it means panic buying, better to panic now than have a worse panic when the sh*t hits the fan and lockdowns etc occur. I have also bought stuff to prepare for it all, I have just yesterday bought an electric hair clipper off Amazon so I can do my hair and avoid the hair dresser, I have bought other useful tools also. It's all costing me money but for all I know that may become worthless soon anyway. The currency of the day might become a tin of beans, eggs, etc just like back in the hyper-inflation days in Germany in the interwar period.

I've thought about stockpiling fuel but I'm not sure how much I'm safely allowed to keep in the UK and it's probably going to be too much bother. I may get an extra petrol can or so but if it becomes a problem I will have to realise that the car is not going to be a long term option and  the cycle will need to come into use. For that I need some new tyres and inner tube since it's still on its first pair since I bought the cycle about 27 or so years ago.

I'm hoping that things won't go any more badly than that. Even stock piled food will run out over time even if getting a trickle through supermarkets. Hopefully this won't descend any further than that into a national food shortage. I'm thinking that this situation will hit it's worst by summer and will have worked through the population by winter. The virus seems to not decrease in the warm weather, if anything it looks like it spreads more so I'm hoping that points to it being a one off rather than a seasonal thing. That would be one saving grace at least.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 15, 2020, 01:31:15 AM
For them some, maybe may things are the same as normal for the moment and they are enjoying that while it lasts. Things are very much anything other than normal for most there however.

I'm really starting to think this virus and all flu viruses are more like gas or weed in that it just floats around in the air unseen. People unknowingly walk into it and get infected, they just breath it in or it infects their face. That apart from wearing respirators, gas masks to a full blown hazmat there is little we can do about getting it. We think about people getting it was a result of coughs and touching stuff but that is just the tip of the iceberg, a heavy handed way about it while the virus moves a lot more cunningly with us totally unawares.


Trench,

would you kindly stop posting this kinda crap?  It only makes things worse for other dipsticks that read and might believe such crap.  You are only projecting your fears on other gullible folks.  If you are worried about the aerosol spread, wear a mask.

Surely things are not the same as before, but we seem to be adjusting well and I am not talking only about myself.  Life goes on, folks that are not sick go to work, folks go to the store to buy what they need, stores classified as 'necessities' are a wide range.

Measures to support those that are affected include a moratorium on taxes, even back taxes, utility bills, mortgage payments, rent and salaries for those that cannot work, Loans for self-employed and small businesses that have more than a 25% reduction in income and the list goes on and on and on.  This from a quick scan of new legislation.

There are assholes in this world whose life sucks so much, they even relish what's going on and seem to want to justify their discontent by trying to create chaos and destruction.  Don't be one of them.  In this unchecked information age, your words can be just as bad as what this guy did:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/belgium-subway-train-passenger-lick-fingers-pole-coronavirus-a9394876.html

Sure, let us know how it is where you live or first-hand reports from your loved ones or your thoughts about how things are being done elsewhere, but don't project your fears on others.  Don't worry you are not alone, I also direct this post to Krimster but recognize there may be some mitigating 'issues' involved.

Off to cook brunch here, homemade english muffins, eggs, bacon, homemade breakfast sausage, grits, pancakes and toast.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 15, 2020, 03:01:28 AM
Health officials expect the epidemic to peak here in the next few days.  The chart shows infections per day:

(http://notizie.tiscali.it/export/sites/notizie/.galleries/19/stima-contagio-chart.jpg_997313609.jpg)

By mid-April, the count projected is 90,000 infections and 360,000 in quarantine that with symptoms since it all began. Total deaths expected to reach more than 3000.

All eyes are on this weekend as there were many beach parties and other pre containment parties in the more southern areas right before the 'lockdown' went into effect for the whole country so the incubation time makes it 'ripe' in the next days.  'Stupid is as stupid does'....

Reports say the median age of folks in intensive care is getting lower, with many in their 30's 40's 50's without other medical conditions having to be put on respirators, so don't let age alone make you feel safe and complacent.

Folks in intensive care in the primarily affected areas are increasing 700+ or so now vs 650 a couple of days ago. Although there may be isolated cases where difficult decisions had to be made, it does not seem to be a widespread problem as GQ seemed to insinuate.  Such decisions are made daily even without an epidemic.  Today saw reported that only 20 or so intensive care beds available in Lombardia.  If intensive care beds are not available patients are being moved as far south as Palermo and other areas that still have a lot of capacity and where numbers remained low due to containment.  At the same time, 1000 respirators from China flown in a couple of days ago are being distributed and installed. It's not only the number of respirators available that counts but also trained folks needed to operate and care for intensive care patients. Medical personnel are also at higher risk for infection. If one gets a fever and they have to go home which reduces the available medical workforce.

Other tidbits, with the closure of restaurants and open markets, demand for fresh veggies and fish products is dropping with many fisheries closing, boats staying in port and agricultural products not being picked, possibly leading to shortages of these fresh products beginning next week. This is not expected to affect frozen products.

To put geography, topology, population into perspective, think of California with 1.5 times the population as being fairly comparable to Italy.

I really, really do hope the US is spared much of this.  I am posting all this so that whoever and wherever is hit next will have some idea what to expect and what to watch out for.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 15, 2020, 04:03:33 AM
As I was saying....President Trump mentioned in his press conference that 36,000 people die annually on average in the USA with Flu..yet no-one says anything about that.

50 people die of Corona virus and it's a national emergency.

Of course the Trump hating media can't hold him accountable for the Flu..it's been around for yonks...so they're beating him with a stick over this new virus instead and inducing hysteria among the population..suits their agenda.

Same happening over here is happening with the lefty media bashing Boris Johnson..no matter what he does they'll spin it against him.

Any economic crash will have been created by an agenda-driven media who want to make the news rather than just report on it...and gullible public are falling for it.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 15, 2020, 04:08:18 AM

Reports say the median age of folks in intensive care is getting lower, with many in their 30's 40's 50's without other medical conditions having to be put on respirators, so don't let age alone make you feel safe and complacent.

I really, really do hope the US is spared much of this.  I am posting all this so that whoever and wherever is hit next will have some idea what to expect and what to watch out for.

That's what I mean! I said I felt there were blanks we weren't being told about with the, 'there all elderly with underlying health conditions' line. As I suspected there ARE younger people without underlying health conditions this affects. They no doubt kept this back to keep sheer utter panic and  fright from setting into the whole population. Some young people will be going around thinking it is just the elderly which they are not remotely bear and they don't have any underlying health conditions so they don't care. That we now know is not the case and as I said it's just those with pre existing underlying conditions it bumps off first. It looks like many people with underlying health conditions young and old are goners the rest of us will just have to wait and see.

Unfortunately I don't think many will be spared this, perhaps if you live or go to somewhere remote. There is too little reason for me to run off by myself to somewhere remote, none of my family members are likely to, if I had a family though I would.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 15, 2020, 04:22:06 AM
Trench,

would you kindly stop posting this kinda crap?  It only makes things worse for other dipsticks that read and might believe such crap.  You are only projecting your fears on other gullible folks.  If you are worried about the aerosol spread, wear a mask.

Surely things are not the same as before, but we seem to be adjusting well and I am not talking only about myself.  Life goes on, folks that are not sick go to work, folks go to the store to buy what they need, stores classified as 'necessities' are a wide range.

Measures to support those that are affected include a moratorium on taxes, even back taxes, utility bills, mortgage payments, rent and salaries for those that cannot work, Loans for self-employed and small businesses that have more than a 25% reduction in income and the list goes on and on and on.  This from a quick scan of new legislation.

There are assholes in this world whose life sucks so much, they even relish what's going on and seem to want to justify their discontent by trying to create chaos and destruction.  Don't be one of them.  In this unchecked information age, your words can be just as bad as what this guy did:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/belgium-subway-train-passenger-lick-fingers-pole-coronavirus-a9394876.html

Sure, let us know how it is where you live or first-hand reports from your loved ones or your thoughts about how things are being done elsewhere, but don't project your fears on others.  Don't worry you are not alone, I also direct this post to Krimster but recognize there may be some mitigating 'issues' involved.

Off to cook brunch here, homemade english muffins, eggs, bacon, homemade breakfast sausage, grits, pancakes and toast.

It's not about fears BC, it's about reality. We are having the truth kept from us by well meaning governments. They are looking at it from a societal view and know it's best not to panic the population at large. We are thinking individuals and as individuals it best serves us to know the truth since we already suspect things aren't as we are told they are. Knowing the truth we can better prepare ourselves and then hope for the best.

Some people I suspect know the picture is not as rosy as made out but they just don't want to accept it and wish to carry on as if nothing is happening. It's the mentality I was talking about up thread about the plane scenario. I don't wish to break their illusion of reality but I can't in good conscience go along with a merry tune of falsehood. It seems to me there are people wishing to believe in bullsh*t then expect others too as well and diss them as scaremongers if they don't believe the same. I won't go along with that idiocy.

For your and everyone else's sake including my own I hope that graph is right and not more bs. Otherwise it could end up feeling like we are living our final days in Hitler's bunker for many if us, each day more gloomier than the last.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 15, 2020, 04:27:06 AM
Running off isn't really an option.  Just look at all us Americans today packing in the last flights home to stand in line for hours with thousands of others while health officials do their checks in addition to the standard wait time for customs etc. Will only take a small percentage of those folks to infect many others as there will be those that have not been tested and are asymptomatic or still in the incubation period.

We experienced a somewhat similar but different situation here, when the lockdown was announced, many in the north headed home to the south which also helped spread the virus. Trains and planes were packed. Those that did head home were asked to self-report themselves so they could be somewhat tracked and followed up on along with self-containment measures. Tens of thousands did self-report.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 15, 2020, 04:43:48 AM
As I was saying....President Trump mentioned in his press conference that 36,000 people die annually on average in the USA with Flu..yet no-one says anything about that.

50 people die of Corona virus and it's a national emergency.

Of course the Trump hating media can't hold him accountable for the Flu..it's been around for yonks...so they're beating him with a stick over this new virus instead and inducing hysteria among the population..suits their agenda.

Same happening over here is happening with the lefty media bashing Boris Johnson..no matter what he does they'll spin it against him.

Any economic crash will have been created by an agenda-driven media who want to make the news rather than just report on it...and gullible public are falling for it.

Chelseaboy,

you like others seem to be hiding behind drawn curtain Nr 3.  We have decades of experience with influenza, we have some decent treatments and immunizations.  Our hospitals regularly test for influenza with a capacity of beds and intensive care facilities that are numbered to deal with a defined range of patients based on past experience.  As seen in Italy, besides having a larger number of doctors and beds per capita, the additional cases can overburden capacity in some areas.  It is yet to be seen whether infections grow as rapidly in other areas and how effective containment has been.

We don't know squat about this Coronavirus, whether or not it can mutate like influenza possibly affecting other portions of the population or whether it becomes more infective or dangerous in the future, whether or not it is seasonal. Nor do we know the real numbers in areas that have not been or do not have the capacity to test a larger portion of the population. 

Considering all the unknowns, is it not prudent to handle and take measures accordingly?  In the US we don't know if 50, 500 or 5000 have died from the virus.  As far as I know the dead are not being tested.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 15, 2020, 05:23:35 AM
BC,
   
    You're right ...we don't know squat about the Corona virus..just that it seems more lethal to older people.

My point is that it isn't for the equally clueless media and the social media "experts" to try and influence Governments into what they should be doing.

There was an interesting press review on Sky News this weekend where it was admitted that certain people are being deliberately controversial in their damning of our Government's handling of the situation just to get themselves more air-time and clicks .

Really sorry to see what's happening in your country..but good to see the people keeping their spirits up by singing on their balconies.
I couldn't see that happening here..our lot are too busy snagging the last packets of Paracetamol,hand-wash or loo paper in another day of stockpiling to be concerned about keeping their neighbours spirits up.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 15, 2020, 05:43:42 AM

By mid-April, the count projected is 90,000 infections and 360,000 in quarantine that with symptoms since it all began. Total deaths expected to reach more than 3000.


IMO that's splendid news!  I hope it declines as per the "official" projections, which BTW resemble my microbiology lab results from 50+ years ago.   

The epidemic was horrible for the 3000 and their families, yet when viewed for the entirety of Italy, 3000 is insignificant, especially considering we can presume many were already in an advanced  state of health decline.  In comparison, what are the average number of flu deaths in Italy?   

I am certain the social distancing measures were a pain in the ass, yet a necessity to flatten the curve.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on March 15, 2020, 05:44:15 AM
So far in the USA, its a slow motion shutdown. Anybody like me that can work from home is, I have been instructed not to travel internationally . Sports and entertainment venues are closing in slow motion. Supermarkets around me are well stocked. It looks like restaurants are down a little in business, but nothing drastic so far

I don't want to get into the various speculations about which country or leader is best handling the crisis. But I will give a shout out to the Friday news conference where government and Corporate leaders came together with a plan. Whether their plans work or not, is another story. I applaud VP Pence initiative to bring major competitors into a discussion for the benefit of all Americans

I am still holding to the opinion this will peak in the next few weeks, and by May things will be close to normal
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 15, 2020, 06:01:22 AM
To add to the level of seriousness here in California, I read this morning that almost all the LA and southern California Casinos have been closed or are closing in the next 24 hours.  Enough industries and cash cows seem to be taking the whole thing seriously to make me think it isn't a hoax.    In addition, I read another article talking in terms of 1-1.5 million deaths in the US from the virus within 18 months.  Perhaps clickbait or rubbish

I have a man coming to my business this morning, he intends on buying out much of my equipment.  He runs a marijuana farm near the Mexico boarder.  Given much of the entertainment is being stripped, I won't be surprised if the 'Marijuana industry' increases greatly.  He has a barracks for his employees.  I don't know if he is factoring in that people may become ill or choose to go to their families.  I suspect most of his employees are recent immigrants, probably illegal. 

Visited my dad last night, didn't really visit actually, The nursing home denied access so we tried to talk through his window.  He is hard of hearing so nothing much was communicated, and ultimately we threw up our hands. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 15, 2020, 06:13:32 AM
As far as I know the dead are not being tested.

Unlikely for COVID-19.  A COVID-19 test gives a black-white answer, yet history, clinical observations and other tests give a reasonable indication.   

The alarms would go off if the deceased had upper respiratory symptoms yet no specific flu virus was detected.   The concern would be to protect medical staff and family members who had contact with the dying patient. 

I expect the number of undetected COVID-19 deaths is small. 
   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 15, 2020, 06:25:42 AM
In comparison, what are the average number of flu deaths in Italy?   

I am certain the social distancing measures were a pain in the ass, yet a necessity to flatten the curve.   

Gator

From the information I dug up yesterday deaths from influenza itself in the hundreds and from other complications around 7,000 per year.  See my previous post on that.

The containment efforts do seem to be holding up here in the south, for now.  Will take a few more days though to see if it holds.  Social distancing is only one part of overall containment.

As posted above we don't know much about this bug which makes these measures prudent despite deaths relative to other causes.  It is, however, an obviously huge burden on the medical system in critical areas which is the main intent of isolation measures.

There are secondary advantages to containment and restriction of movement as well.  The streets and highways are very quiet, thus less accidents and hospitalizations which frees capacity for the more difficult virus cases.  I would expect even normal cases of the flu will be reduced as well as further reducing demand for critical care beds over time.  Considering the start of the countrywide lockdown and incubation periods of normal flu and Covid, we still have a few days to go..

It's really not about beating this bug at all but instead to ensure those that need care can get it and buy time necessary to understand it better and find good treatments.

Imagine having a bad accident, or heart attack, or stroke, or pneumonia to find that your local hospitals are already overloaded.  Other critical care needs did not go away with the virus and medical personnel are greatly affected.  If these other workloads were not present we wouldn't have a problem with capacity to deal with this new virus.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 15, 2020, 06:38:50 AM
Running off isn't really an option.  Just look at all us Americans today packing in the last flights home to stand in line for hours with thousands of others while health officials do their checks in addition to the standard wait time for customs etc. Will only take a small percentage of those folks to infect many others as there will be those that have not been tested and are asymptomatic or still in the incubation period.

We experienced a somewhat similar but different situation here, when the lockdown was announced, many in the north headed home to the south which also helped spread the virus. Trains and planes were packed. Those that did head home were asked to self-report themselves so they could be somewhat tracked and followed up on along with self-containment measures. Tens of thousands did self-report.

I personally reckon the US is in for the same as the rest of us, they are probably at best only a couple of weeks behind the UK. Those Americans could be running into the problem than being in the problem at present. If that graph is anywhere near correct BC staying where you are would at least mean you may be in one of the countries first out if the problem, but I think it will still be a case of being in lockdown for some time to come, maybe over a year or more since those countries coming out of the problem won't want other countries to re-infect the population. I reckon in the end it will be a case of hefty measures in place for flying abroad. At the very least thermal imaging camera's in all airports and at border crossings.

Did you get on a flight to the US, BC?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 15, 2020, 06:40:25 AM

I expect the number of undetected COVID-19 deaths is small. 
   

Expecting and knowing is a world of difference and very important for the decision-makers.  Not all influenza cases are tested either since a  diagnosis of symptoms alone - until now - would likely be considered valid for influenza.  Some of the first cases were discovered because treatment was not working warranting further testing.  When results came back negative for influenza eyebrows got raised.  Since then many, most with symptoms were tested along with recently deceased when possible.  This, of course, would not be feasible where Covid specific testing was not available.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 15, 2020, 06:53:39 AM
Did you get on a flight to the US, BC?

And have very high chances of catching it on the way in a packed plane for 10+ hours, then crammed like sardines in the customs hall with thousands of others for several more hours, some who are surely carriers or in the incubation period - just to risk infecting my parents in their 80's with all of us ending up begging to get in the hospital in a week or two??  No way in hell.  We Facetime instead.

Consider the zig-zag line system in the US.. one passes every person in the neighbouring lines on each side multiple times within sneeze cough and spitting distance.


http://youtu.be/11mtMIvAzbc
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 15, 2020, 07:04:42 AM
And have very high chances of catching it on the way in a packed plane for 10+ hours, then crammed like sardines in the customs hall with thousands of others for several more hours, some who are surely carriers or in the incubation period - just to risk infecting my parents in their 80's with all of us ending up begging to get in the hospital in a week or two??  No way in hell.  We Facetime instead.

Consider the zig-zag line system in the US.. one passes every person in the neighbouring line multiple times within sneeze cough and spitting distance.

I don't blame you BC, I think you are best of where you are avoiding all of that, certainly no worse of in most likelihood. I would definitely want at least a decent mask and goggles to brave that and even then I wouldn't fancy it or my chances.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 15, 2020, 07:33:11 AM
...Folks in intensive care in the primarily affected areas are increasing 700+ or so now vs 650 a couple of days ago. Although there may be isolated cases where difficult decisions had to be made, it does not seem to be a widespread problem as GQ seemed to insinuate.  Such decisions are made daily even without an epidemic...

LOL. That wasn't an 'insinuation'. Hardly. I gave you an Italian news link, complete with audio testimony from two Italian doctors saying they're overwhelmed and don't have enough respirators and are choosing who gets to live and who gets to die. I asked you to validate if the report is true or fake news, all of the sudden, you don't know how to speak Italian to verify if the audio is legit.

So here's another report from yesterday..
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/coronavirus-italian-doctors-on-how-ireland-can-avoid-disaster-1.4202054

So again, I will ask. Is it true the Italian healthcare system are faced with having to let people die because they are not properly equipped to treat the sick? Lest you once again imply *I am insinuating* such tragic Italian reality, if true.

As for...

Trench, would you kindly stop posting this kinda crap?  It only makes things worse for other dipsticks that read and might believe such crap.  You are only projecting your fears on other gullible folks.  If you are worried about the aerosol spread, wear a mask.

OY!...speaking of 'insinuation'.

  In the US we don't know if 50, 500 or 5000 have died from the virus.  As far as I know the dead are not being tested.

LMAO! Wuhan didn't even reached past 4,000 dead yet, BC. You're really CNN-programed. Still can't get over the 2016 election. Get closure, man. If you do not know, then why practice exactly what you're telling Trenchcoat to refrain from doing?

Anyway, I'm glad the Chinese red cross shipped you folks additional, urgently needed respirators so you guys can avoid havig to 'sacrifice people to save people'.

Pretty funny posts BC. You can't help your anti-American sentiment from showing. I hope you enjoyed your breakfast.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 15, 2020, 07:35:47 AM
There are secondary advantages to containment and restriction of movement as well.
Home burglaries have declined dramatically, too ;).
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 15, 2020, 07:41:30 AM
To add to the level of seriousness here in California, I read this morning that almost all the LA and southern California Casinos have been closed or are closing in the next 24 hours.  Enough industries and cash cows seem to be taking the whole thing seriously to make me think it isn't a hoax.    In addition, I read another article talking in terms of 1-1.5 million deaths in the US from the virus within 18 months.  Perhaps clickbait or rubbish

I have a man coming to my business this morning, he intends on buying out much of my equipment.  He runs a marijuana farm near the Mexico boarder.  Given much of the entertainment is being stripped, I won't be surprised if the 'Marijuana industry' increases greatly.  He has a barracks for his employees.  I don't know if he is factoring in that people may become ill or choose to go to their families.  I suspect most of his employees are recent immigrants, probably illegal. 

Visited my dad last night, didn't really visit actually, The nursing home denied access so we tried to talk through his window.  He is hard of hearing so nothing much was communicated, and ultimately we threw up our hands. 

Fathertime!

Many of the marts, like Walmart, is adjusting their business hours to allow for re-stocking. Walmart is open 24 hours, but have now cut hours so they can have the time not only to re-stock but to clean and disinfect the premise.

Mother nature is probably trying to help California. It's raining down the entire state assuring people to stay inside, notably home. Likely adding to the perception of either compliance or seriousness of the moratoriums. I hope the former.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 15, 2020, 07:43:07 AM
Home burglaries have declined dramatically, too ;).

I'm sure of that :)

Good to see you, Sandro.  Hope all is well with you, friends and loved ones.

Please do feel free to correct any information in my posts above. As to local conditions up there you are the authority.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 15, 2020, 07:50:56 AM
Unlikely for COVID-19.  A COVID-19 test gives a black-white answer, yet history, clinical observations and other tests give a reasonable indication.   

The alarms would go off if the deceased had upper respiratory symptoms yet no specific flu virus was detected.   The concern would be to protect medical staff and family members who had contact with the dying patient. 

I expect the number of undetected COVID-19 deaths is small. 
   

Completely agree. Although it's an inconvenient for some as it doesn't fit their narrative.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 15, 2020, 08:14:44 AM
As I was saying....President Trump mentioned in his press conference that 36,000 people die annually on average in the USA with Flu..yet no-one says anything about that.

50 people die of Corona virus and it's a national emergency.

Of course the Trump hating media can't hold him accountable for the Flu..it's been around for yonks...so they're beating him with a stick over this new virus instead and inducing hysteria among the population..suits their agenda.

Same happening over here is happening with the lefty media bashing Boris Johnson..no matter what he does they'll spin it against him.

Any economic crash will have been created by an agenda-driven media who want to make the news rather than just report on it...and gullible public are falling for it.

What is going on in China and Europe has nothing to do with Trump being at fault. Smart voters know this. Trump is not claiming this is a hoax. He declared it a national emergency with only a few dozen Americans dead. The governments aren't telling the public how dangerous this virus is. The media doesn't even have enough info to know how dangerous this virus is and report that info to us and they are even writing articles of hope that a vaccine will soon be found. Fake News. My wife's cousin, who teaches in a college in Germany, said German's are close to finding a vaccine. My wife is mad at me because she says her cousin talks to really smart people. I think my wife has hope. I deal in reality. I gave my wife a challenge to search the internet for a vaccine or anti viral medicine for a coronavirus.

Politicians who are still finger pointing should be the ones voted out. This is a time they need to come together to save their citizens lives and I'm starting to see that in America.


We don't know squat about this Coronavirus, whether or not it can mutate like influenza possibly affecting other portions of the population or whether it becomes more infective or dangerous in the future, whether or not it is seasonal. Nor do we know the real numbers in areas that have not been or do not have the capacity to test a larger portion of the population. 


We know enough about this virus to take the steps we see today. There is no and most likely will  be no cure or treatment based on past attempts on coronavirus's. There are two strains of COVID-19 floating around in a matter of months. The belief a person can get this once, build an immunity and never get it again significantly diminishes. If this virus keeps mutating, the test kits we have now may not work on a future virus.

While adults get 2-3 colds a year, children get 6-10 colds a year. Probably why schools are the first to close although kids have a low chance of dying. COVID-19 is a relative of the cold virus.

I hope Italy succeeds in their nationwide lockdown but I believe this is only the first one. Unless your neighbors and the rest of the world synchronize lockdowns and participate in a group effort, the virus may enter Italy again under a new strain that fools test kits and doctors. North Korea still reports zero infections. It's nations like those that refuse to participate and probably doesn't have the adequate testing equipment to find the infected that'll prolong the fight against the virus. Hopefully China has enough test kits for N Korea. It's hard enough to create test kits for 1.4 billion people. It's hard for any nation to create enough test kits for their population and it's why they recommend self isolation so we can burn the virus out of our bodies with our own immune system without infecting more people at the same time and overloading the medical community.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 15, 2020, 08:28:03 AM
In the UK it has been announced that within a few weeks the elderly over 70 years old will be told to self isolate:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51895873

It also looks that the government is not now going to close Schools but instead keep them open:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-51835486


I think that both measures are the correct course of action to take. As is said in the reports closing schools would mean key workers having to stay at home. Worse than that is that many more workers would have to stay at home and the economy would start to buckle under the strain. Workers without children can't be expected nor forced to do more work to make up the labour shortfall that would cause if that is even possible. Children here are supposedly in general least at risk so it makes sense for them not to be the cause of greater chaos. If anything perhaps it would be best to keep them at school over Easter, half terms and the summer holidays also ;D
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 15, 2020, 08:46:16 AM
Expecting and knowing is a world of difference and very important for the decision-makers. 

We are somewhere along the information continuum that extends from zero to complete information.
Yet making decisions on imperfect information is what we do, assessing reality and reacting pragmatically. 

We are behind Italy in testing.  Thus,  it is possible that more testing would show US has more COIVID-19 deaths than Italy.   Or is the difference in reported deaths a result of different practices between the two nations (e. g., in January the US controlled travelers from China)?     

We will always have blind spots. 

     -  How much testing and study would be necessary to determine the significance of contagious yet asymptomatic carriers?  If significant, what would we do?   

     -  Is the spreading broadly and randomly based or more a focused result of COVID-19 equivalents of "Typhoid Mary."

     -  Is the difference in individual susceptibility a random event, or do some people have a more protective immune system (they have shields a la  Starship Enterprise)? 

     -  To quote you, "We don't know squat about this Coronavirus, whether or not it can mutate like influenza possibly affecting other portions of the population or whether it becomes more infective or dangerous in the future, whether or not it is seasonal."

IMO, our governments are doing what is practical; however, the degree of hysterics among our citizens is unwarranted.         
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 15, 2020, 08:47:07 AM
LOL. That wasn't an 'insinuation'. Hardly. I gave you an Italian news link, complete with audio testimony from two Italian doctors saying they're overwhelmed and don't have enough respirators and are choosing who gets to live and who gets to die. I asked you to validate if the report is true or fake news, all of the sudden, you don't know how to speak Italian to verify if the audio is legit.

So here's another report from yesterday..
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/coronavirus-italian-doctors-on-how-ireland-can-avoid-disaster-1.4202054

So again, I will ask. Is it true the Italian healthcare system are faced with having to let people die because they are not properly equipped to treat the sick? Lest you once again imply *I am insinuating* such tragic Italian reality, if true.

I didn't say I don't know how to speak, read or write Italian, only that I would hate to get something wrong in translation and deferred to Sandro if he wanted to chip in with his authoritative linguistic expertise.

Quote
As for...

OY!...speaking of 'insinuation'.

LMAO! Wuhan didn't even reached past 4,000 dead yet, BC. You're really CNN-programed. Still can't get over the 2016 election. Get closure, man. If you do not know, then why practice exactly what you're telling Trenchcoat to refrain from doing?

4,000 is well within the 22,000 to 55,000 range of estimates of flu deaths since October.
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm

Without testing nobody knows.

You seem to be the only one that has mentioned elections.

Quote

Anyway, I'm glad the Chinese red cross shipped you folks additional, urgently needed respirators so you guys can avoid havig to 'sacrifice people to save people'.

Pretty funny posts BC. You can't help your anti-American sentiment from showing. I hope you enjoyed your breakfast.

Yes, it was very considerate and generous of China to help out.  They assisted Iran as well.
http://www.chinadailyhk.com/article/122782

From the article : The coronavirus disease is enemy of all, Hua said. “We must fight together".

You are of course entitled to your opinion, or is it 'entitled opinion'?  buh.. your problem, not mine.  I encouraged Sandro to correct anything I posted above. Feel free to ask him directly if you want about the 'sacrifice' scenario or anything else for that matter.  He is at the front.

And yes, we did enjoy brunch together.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 15, 2020, 08:59:53 AM
Home burglaries have declined dramatically, too ;).


In the not-too-old days, homes with smallpox infections had warnings posted on the door.  A few Southern plantations were saved from pillaging Yankee soldiers by nailing a fake "smallpox" sign on the door. 

(http://ids.si.edu/ids/deliveryService?max_w=800&id=NMAH-AHB2014q091712)

 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 15, 2020, 09:08:38 AM
I didn't say I don't know how to speak, read or write Italian, only that I would hate to get something wrong in translation and deferred to Sandro...

Then tell us what *you* believe it was. I’m sure you’re at least MORE than capable of understanding basic Italian. Heck if not that, verify the ‘written report’ since it’s written in English. It won’t matter where in Italy you are, after all you seem to believe you’re capable of *knowing every details* in the US despite being thousands of miles away from it.

Why not just verify whether this is true or fake news so *I* won’t be accused of insinuating anything. Yes or No.

Quote
And yes, we did enjoy brunch together.

Awesome.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 15, 2020, 09:08:43 AM
We are somewhere along the information continuum that extends from zero to complete information.
Yet making decisions on imperfect information is what we do, assessing reality and reacting pragmatically. 

We are behind Italy in testing.  Thus,  it is possible that more testing would show US has more COIVID-19 deaths than Italy.   Or is the difference in reported deaths a result of different practices between the two nations (e. g., in January the US controlled travelers from China)?   

The virus is obviously present in the US, so it's more a matter of where in the timeline we are (referring to the US).  A graph of US projections is likely not possible based on the small amount of testing thus far.   


Quote
We will always have blind spots.

Indeed.  There is a CDC playbook.  Has leadership been following it?

Quote
     -  How much testing and study would be necessary to determine the significance of contagious yet asymptomatic carriers?  If significant, what would we do?   

That will likely take time, so best to expect and prepare for the worst or?  It is how our military works (which btw is also on locked down in place with all planned unit movements and relocations cancelled)

Quote
     -  Is the spreading broadly and randomly based or more a focused result of COVID-19 equivalents of "Typhoid Mary."

Maybe, maybe not.  Again prudence advised until we know more.

Quote
     -  Is the difference in individual susceptibility a random event, or do some people have a more protective immune system (they have shields a la  Starship Enterprise)? 

From experience and the numbers show so far, mostly the aged, with other health and immunity issues.  Seems though no one has a 'shield' as other ages are affected as well, but not to the same extent... thus far.  It is still too early for many details.

Quote
     -  To quote you, "We don't know squat about this Coronavirus, whether or not it can mutate like influenza possibly affecting other portions of the population or whether it becomes more infective or dangerous in the future, whether or not it is seasonal."

IMO, our governments are doing what is practical; however, the degree of hysterics among our citizens is unwarranted.       

For folks like Trench and Krimster I tend to agree with you.  I'm not noting too awful much hysteria among those we know around here.  How is it in your community?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 15, 2020, 09:14:19 AM
Then tell us what *you* believe it was. I’m sure you’re at least MORE than capable of understanding basic Italian. Heck if not that, verify the ‘written report’. It won’t matter where in Italy you are, after all you seem to believe you’re capable of *knowing every details* in the US despite being thousands of miles away from it.

Why not just verify whether this is true or fake news so *I* won’t be accused of insinuating anything. Yes or No.

I posted what I thought I heard in my previous post.  From all the reporting I have seen, I can't exclude such scenarios having occurred in isolated cases, but not as a general rule like 'don't put folks over 60 on respirators.  Sandro may know more.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 15, 2020, 09:18:27 AM
...
I hope Italy succeeds in their nationwide lockdown but I believe this is only the first one. Unless your neighbors and the rest of the world synchronize lockdowns and participate in a group effort, the virus may enter Italy again under a new strain that fools test kits and doctors. North Korea still reports zero infections. It's nations like those that refuse to participate and probably doesn't have the adequate testing equipment to find the infected that'll prolong the fight against the virus. Hopefully China has enough test kits for N Korea. It's hard enough to create test kits for 1.4 billion people. It's hard for any nation to create enough test kits for their population and it's why they recommend self isolation so we can burn the virus out of our bodies with our own immune system without infecting more people at the same time and overloading the medical community.

In the meantime, China is confident enough they’ve controlled the virus and had closed the last temporary coronavirus hospital.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-wuhan-masks-video-doctors-nurses-hospital-a9402631.html?amp
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 15, 2020, 09:32:15 AM
News from LA. It’s nuts why people do this.
It apparently came from the UK. (http://www.yahoo.com/gma/fake-coronavirus-test-kits-seized-los-angeles-airport-213958726--abc-news-topstories.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9yLnNlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20vX3lsdD1Bd3I5SDZyRVYyNWVUUVVBVTRWeC45dzQ7X3lsdT1YM29ETVRCeU5XVTRjR2gxQkdOdmJHOERaM0V4QkhCdmN3TXhCSFowYVdRREJITmxZd056WXctLS9SVj0yL1JFPTE1ODQzMTg1MzMvUk89MTAvUlU9aHR0cHMlM2ElMmYlMmZ3d3cueWFob28uY29tJTJmZ21hJTJmZmFrZS1jb3JvbmF2aXJ1cy10ZXN0LWtpdHMtc2VpemVkLWxvcy1hbmdlbGVzLWFpcnBvcnQtMjEzOTU4NzI2LS1hYmMtbmV3cy10b3BzdG9yaWVzLmh0bWwvUks9Mi9SUz1qLnMzMERmNk8yeXZraTgzOENMZEdqVDZnOFUt&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAFyKfFe_RnCjO1RFG5YKPrB1vrO8856pObN1RQ_9Udnvoow-gM-K038vx3wVD9SuDOlX0adqJfyArKGZi2GrdRamzrLJPyOATKej1hjU2n53sU-07wBNv__YvkrvVvBQeUyvQawycOsjqRHigwSmbah0vhLJTAKPtvao_rixmA5W)

Bummer that Mammoth is closing during a time of great coverage and was a very promising epic spring skiing season.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 15, 2020, 09:43:53 AM
GQ,

Some bad intentioned folks in Italy were going door to door announcing they are from the dept of civil defence and doing door to door tests - just to gain entry and try and rob folks.  Went viral on official and social media so now everyone knows about it an call the police right away if they see something similar.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 15, 2020, 09:54:09 AM
From experience and the numbers show so far, mostly the aged, with other health and immunity issues.  Seems though no one has a 'shield' as other ages are affected as well, but not to the same extent... thus far.  It is still too early for many details.

I am talking about two opportunities where susceptibility is a factor. 

        1.  First is the actual exposure to the virus.  Some people exposed will not become infected because:   a)  their mucous membrane, etc.  stop it,  or b)  the transport pathway to susceptible targets within the body, e. g., lungs, is intercepted,  or c)  infection is random and dependent upon the actual number of COVID-19 viral agents inhaled/ingested, or d) more likely something else, or e) a combination of many factors?   
                       
         2.  Second is  the body's reaction to COVID-19 viral agents that have reached host cells of vital organs.   The immune response in some/many people eliminate it.  Ironically, the serious cases are ones where the body's autoimmune response goes unchecked, and the patient dies especially when added to an existing medical condition.

http://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/why-some-covid-19-cases-are-worse-than-others-67160

Aristotle:  “The more you know, the more you realize you don't know.”



(http://onlinepethealth-info.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Dunning-Kruger.jpg)

   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 15, 2020, 10:15:09 AM
The virus is obviously present in the US, so it's more a matter of where in the timeline we are (referring to the US).  A graph of US projections is likely not possible based on the small amount of testing thus far.   


America is going to be fine compared to Europe. After all said and done, I hope you give Trump credit for swift and racist correct action banning travel from China. 

Although America is behind Italy in testing, we have an idea where this is going and our curve isn't going to be as bad as European nations. I watch the video GQ posted with Trump and Co speaking. 98-99% of all people tested are coming back negative. My county is worst hit in America and we have priority in test kits over small towns USA. Tests are available for anybody. With a low percentage coming back positive, it means we had very few people walking around infecting others.

I went shopping this early Sunday morning when there was no lines. No toilet paper on the shelves and people were buying paper towels instead. I hope they have a plunger at home. I read a report some homeless guy escaped from quarantine. I don't know why he didn't like a roof over his head, three meals a day, and a warm room. Probably escaped because he needed drugs. There will be idiots like him that doesn't take the virus seriously. I don't watch right wing news but it sounds like some are reporting it's a hoax or the virus is no big deal. Some people won't take it seriously and try to prove it by touching things or licking poles to make a point.

Currently 1 out of every 2859 people in Italy is infected.

Switzerland numbers skyrocketed and 1 out of every 3866 people are infected which is a much higher ratio than Spain who's getting locked down. I see lock down in Swiss's future. 68.000 people travel between Italy and Switzerland everyday for work. It's best Switzerland and everybody else time their lock downs together. Some nations don't want to lock down because it will hurt their economy but nations staggering lock downs may hurt the economy even more in the long run.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/covid-19_what-do-the-restrictions-in-italy-mean-for-switzerland-/45605968

Guys, this battle against COVID-19 isn't going to be over in a few months. This is phase 1 where we slow down the spread. After that, we need  to get rid of it from every human body since a vaccine is unlikely to be found. This could be a two year process with more hardships to follow. In April 2009 H1N1 Swine Flu showed up. Months later, in September 2009, a vaccine was found. Swine Flu continued to kill in a 2015 outbreak in India so you get the picture it could take years to beat COVID-19. COVID-19 is much deadlier than H1N1 and expect no cure or treatment. I hope our governments have enough money to win this fight. If our governments break down, society breaks down.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 15, 2020, 10:38:53 AM
Home burglaries have declined dramatically, too ;).

That could rapidly change to the opposite it people start to run out of food.

I think a big problem Italy could have ahead of itself (and France, Spain & Germany too) is economic catastrophe at the end of all of this, should we hopefully get to the end of all of this. The state can only support the population & businesses for so long before it goes bust. Even before that every day it is supporting the population & business it is doing more damage to its treasurt. Italy was already in a fairly weak economic state before this crisis hit, I can't see it being in any sort of shape after it. There is a good chance Italy will fall apart.

Thankfully the UK has left the EU so we won't have to put up with their dealings in all of this.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 15, 2020, 10:50:56 AM
As I was saying....President Trump mentioned in his press conference that 36,000 people die annually on average in the USA with Flu..yet no-one says anything about that.

50 people die of Corona virus and it's a national emergency.

Of course the Trump hating media can't hold him accountable for the Flu..it's been around for yonks...so they're beating him with a stick over this new virus instead and inducing hysteria among the population..suits their agenda.

Same happening over here is happening with the lefty media bashing Boris Johnson..no matter what he does they'll spin it against him.

Any economic crash will have been created by an agenda-driven media who want to make the news rather than just report on it...and gullible public are falling for it.

As BC noted, influenza has been around a long time, medical professionals know a lot about it, and how to treat it.  That's one of the reasons that every year, they tell people to get a vaccination, particularly those with compromised immune systems.  They also know the peak season for flu.  Health officials can predict mortality rates for influenza, and hospitalization rates, as they're fairly consistent.  By now, for example, health officials know that influenza has peaked for the year.  The death rate for influenza is 0.1%, and that's consistent over years.

Also as BC noted, other than knowing that based on China's experience, the death rate for COVID-19 is around 2.3%, very little is known about COVID-19. That's the difference.

I don't think the media is doing anything more than reporting.  Health officials have suggested staying home, washing hands, shutting down large public gatherings.  It's not the media doing this.

On a separate note, I was at Costco yesterday afternoon, around 2:30.  I wouldn't have bothered going there, but we were out of lettuce, and Costco sells a great lettuce mix that no one else does.  There were no lineups, which is unusual for a Saturday afternoon.  Also, rare for Costco, few product sales, other than flavoured yogurt.  There was absolutely no raw chicken of any kind, and they were down to about 4 packs of pork tenderloin, but I wasn't looking for either chicken or pork.  They also had no toilet paper or paper towels, neither of which I was looking for either (passed by as I got a box of San Pellegrino).  Produce was plentiful.

Our son ran out of hand soap, and both supermarkets were completely out of hand soap, which suggests to me that people don't normally wash their hands. :o I did manage to find a bottle at the drugstore, which had about 15 bottles left.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 15, 2020, 11:04:06 AM
I am talking about two opportunities where susceptibility is a factor. 

        1.  First is the actual exposure to the virus.  Some people exposed will not become infected because:   a)  their mucous membrane, etc.  stop it, or b)  the transport pathway to susceptible targets within the body, e. g., lungs, is intercepted,  or c)  infection is random and dependent upon the actual number of COVID-19 viral agents inhaled/ingested, or d) more likely something else, or e) a combination of many factors?

Hence, I would hazard a guess that this is principally the reason why the younger folks are asymptomatic, or at worst, suffer only 'mild' symptoms. The air pathways still harness rather robust and/or healthy cilia able to discharge impurities, either bacterial or viral before it overwhelms the lungs. In the case of those who gets the virus, again, guessing that the likelihood the same mechanism is compromised due (likely) from such habit like smoking. Asians and Europeans are still far more notorious with their love affair with cigarettes. The younger set in the US developed a fascination for vaping, thus hopeful the lockdowns would help in this regard.

Either way, it doesn't make the younger ones completely immune to the disease. Void of safe practice, absence of care could be just as dangerous for other people outside of themselves.

BTW - All elective surgeries are being cancelled statewide to conform to SG's recommendation from yesterday's presser. For our SoCal members. maps of locations for testing will soon be up, but if you have the symptoms there are a few places available to call. For example, Sherman Oaks urgent care are testing onsite by appointment only. In some instances, they would even come to your home. UCLA, I believe, are establishing, or have established, satellite locations in various places where you can get tested. Same is true for UC schools. This is to prevent flooding hospitals and emergency clinics.

If you have the symptoms, DO NOT show up at your nearest hospitals or emergency clinics. Call first and have them instruct you what to do, or if these particular facility have a website - read their protocol.

All testing is 'free' whether or not you have insurance. All copays are waived. This is a federal mandate, so don't be fooled.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 15, 2020, 11:17:18 AM

I have read articles saying viruses don't always reach the lungs. Probably why we get colds and don't even notice it and other times it'll put us down for a week. While some people got COVID-19 this time, they may not notice it. The next time they catch it, it may hospitalize them. Younger, healthier immune systems are more likely to stop the viruses early before it infects the lungs.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 15, 2020, 11:18:41 AM
Hence, I would hazard a guess

LOL I like that :)

Not criticizing you at all, just noting the interesting word usage that seems to fit the times.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 15, 2020, 11:19:59 AM

http://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/why-some-covid-19-cases-are-worse-than-others-67160
 

Gator,

thanks for the link, interesting read.

For the 'aside' as well :)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 15, 2020, 11:31:05 AM
They also had no toilet paper or paper towels, neither of which I was looking for either (passed by as I got a box of San Pellegrino).
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 15, 2020, 11:46:48 AM
That could rapidly change to the opposite it people start to run out of food.

I think a big problem Italy could have ahead of itself (and France, Spain & Germany too) is economic catastrophe at the end of all of this, should we hopefully get to the end of all of this. The state can only support the population & businesses for so long before it goes bust. Even before that every day it is supporting the population & business it is doing more damage to its treasurt. Italy was already in a fairly weak economic state before this crisis hit, I can't see it being in any sort of shape after it. There is a good chance Italy will fall apart.

Thankfully the UK has left the EU so we won't have to put up with their dealings in all of this.

No country is spared of economic repercussion of this problem. Public health takes front and center ahead of economics in this regard. How severe the curve is or will be, will ultimately determine financial impact for each country.

So far, at least at this time, the US's economy was in great shape before getting hit with this. But our 2nd quarter GDP still stands to get some serious spanking with this problem. The only hope is that it doesn't go under the negative territory. Don't believe for a minute the UK will somehow magically rise above this all.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 15, 2020, 11:59:31 AM
Hope all is well with you, friends and loved ones.
I am doing alright, considering, except that this situation is a royal PITA :(.
Quote
Please do feel free to correct any information in my posts above. As to local conditions up there you are the authority.
Thanks but I'll pass,  I am fed up with these endless debates :-X.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 15, 2020, 12:05:48 PM
Hilarious BC, glad you can find some things out there that will put a smile on your face.

3 days ago an Italian nurse's photo and story went viral(no pun intended) all over the world. Do you or Sandro know how she's doing now?

http://www.instagram.com/alessiabonari_/?utm_source=ig_embed

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/an-italian-coronavirus-nurse-posted-a-picture-of-her-face-bruised-from-wearing-a-mask-to-highlight-how-much-health-workers-are-struggling/ar-BB115QWS?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 15, 2020, 12:36:57 PM

http://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/why-some-covid-19-cases-are-worse-than-others-67160


It was a good read and in line with some of the stuff I read about coronavirus behavior in January. The article is 3 weeks old and said mortality rate is 2.3% but the estimates for mortality rate has gone up since then.

One thing I read in the article that stood out was:

There are seven coronaviruses known to infect people. Four of them—229E, NL63, OC43, and HKU1—typically cause a cold and only rarely result in death. The other three—MERS-CoV, SARS-CoV, and the new SARS-CoV-2—have varying degrees of lethality. In the 2003 SARS outbreak, 10 percent of infected people died. Between 2012 and 2019, MERS killed 23 percent of infected people. Although the case fatality rate of COVID-19 is lower, the virus has already killed more people than the other two outbreaks combined, which some have attributed to the pathogen’s fast transmission. 

Although this coronavirus is less lethal, it has killed more people than the last two combined. Go figure. I still think the mortality rates are underestimated for COVID-19. This virus been out a few months while the other two lasted years and this virus already killed more people.

The rest of the World has officially passed China in infections and deaths.

China has 80,849 infections, 3199 deaths and 66,931 recoveries

World minus China has 86,910 infections, 3286 deaths, and 9667 recoveries.

Some politicians such as President Moon of S Korea is taking a lot of heat from citizens for not taking action against China sooner. S Korea's reporting has changed from last week which is suspicious. Some governments may not be giving out too much bad news in fear politicians will lose their jobs. N Korea on the other hand has been doing an excellent job. Supreme Leader Kim Jong Un has reported zero infections in his nation. I wish we had a leader like him to protect our nation.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 15, 2020, 01:50:23 PM
If anyone would like to see official results here is a link to
the John Hopkins Corona virus resource center
http://coronavirus.jhu.edu/

The interactive map
http://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 15, 2020, 01:59:50 PM
If anyone would like to see official results here is a link to
the John Hopkins Corona virus resource center
http://coronavirus.jhu.edu/

The interactive map
http://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

John Hopkins is a great source but link below is hours ahead of John Hopkins in reporting. They also give data such as cases per million population, active cases and critical cases. Many Euro nations have much higher case per million that China does. Another sign China was under reporting because they allowed their people to travel and gather in large groups in January during new years celebrations. They put their people at risk knowing this virus was out since December.

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 15, 2020, 03:16:16 PM
I reckon it's probably a hard one to judge of how many cases they actually are and then work out the mortality rate. Many mild cases don't get reported. In the UK at present the advice is unless you have symptoms serious enough to to phone up 111 (unless for sick note reasons) then just self isolate at home for at least 7 days until symptoms go or they get worse and you need hospital treatment.

So really the only solid stats are the deaths & recoveries of patients with severe cases of the virus. It would indeed be heartening to know that not all people that get the Caronavirus are on a near 50/50 mortality/survival rate. A large bulk of cases that are mild would affect the figures enormously. Yet there seems to be little inclination into looking at the constitution of the more milder cases. That information could provide valuable information about the virus. Certainly medical staff are way too busy with the serious cases to worry about the mild cases. On the general public side many with mild symptoms don't wish to be dragged into a lengthy mind numbing stay in hospital. I think if self diagnosis kits were available it would help a lot in understanding the milder cases.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 15, 2020, 03:32:21 PM
self diagnosis kits


That is the next step to beating the virus. After the medical community gets enough kits, governments will be making kits for people to take home just like a pregnancy test. It's important to find people with little or no symptoms that are carriers to get them identified so they can be quarantined.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on March 15, 2020, 03:32:51 PM
Well, it looks like the hoarding crazies have infected our small town.  Wifey sent me out for eggs, hydrogen peroxide, mayo and I wanted to replenish my Vitamin C supply.

What a zoo!!  Went to seven stores today and was fortunate to buy the last jar of mayo.  For some reason my UA wife cannot live without it.

None of the 7 stores have any eggs.  None have any hydrogen peroxide.  I am surprised that so many people even know what it is or what it's for.  I did not bother to check for disinfectants or toilet paper but many shelves in the stores are empty.

I did manage to buy a bottle of Vitamin C.  It was only available in gummy format.  Not my first choice, but it will work.  Directions say to chew 3 of them per day.

Looks like the entrepreneurs are busy.  L.A. customs intercepted a large shipment from the UK that is full of fake Corona Virus test kits.  Hope people are prosecuted on both sides of the pond.
 http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/fake-coronavirus-testing-kits-seized-los-angeles-airport-69601035

Don't know how long the egg shortage is going to last but can only find baby chicks for sale.   :)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 15, 2020, 04:11:04 PM
None have any hydrogen peroxide.  I am surprised that so many people even know what it is or what it's for.  I did not bother to check for disinfectants or toilet paper but many shelves in the stores are empty.
Look for a disinfectant containing Isopropyl Alcohol, not many know about it ;):

(http://www.gibermedicali.it/images/prodotti/docp-6436_2670.jpg)

This particular brand (Novalcol) is also available from Amazon here. There probably are similar others in the States.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on March 15, 2020, 04:16:27 PM
Meanwhile in the USA....Utah police departments have pleaded with criminals to stop their “nefarious” behavior in light of increasing amounts of coronavirus cases in the US

http://www.rt.com/usa/483195-utah-police-crime-coronavirus/
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 15, 2020, 04:27:48 PM
The White House Coronavirus Task Force an hour ago held a press conference with major announcements.  At the top of the list is the program to expand greatly the number of rapid tests for COVID-19 infection.

Two parts: 1) the collection of a sample from an individual and 2) the analysis of the sample in a scientific laboratory.

High-Throughput Labs

The manual CDC testing procedure used since the outbreak will be replaced by high-throughput methods performed at 2,000 existing commercial and government laboratories around the US.   Two analytical kits will be used, one for the Roche procedure and a second for the Thermo-Fischer procedure (the latter was approved by the FDA Friday evening).  A total of 1.9 million test kits will be distributed this week.

The Thermo-Fischer test will report results within four hours.  The company will be producing materials for 5 million "reactions" per week.   

         *Reaction = test of one person
 

Collection of Sample 

The collection of samples will not be performed at acute care centers, thus preventing the possible co-mingling of those COVID-19 infections with individuals seeking  medical care for heart problems, injuries, etc.  Instead, the collection will be done at PODS (point of distribution system) modules by healthcare staff in protective gear.  These will be located in parking lots of retail stores (Walmart, Walgreen, etc) and parking lots of healthcare facilities.   Each module supposedly will be able to screen and take samples from 2,000 - 4,000 individuals per day.  The roll-out is done though the state and local health departments. 

Good news.  And yes, because of greatly increased numbers of testing, the US will see a huge spike in number of infections.

Forgot - the USPHS (?) will releasing a website with a screening questionnaire and directions for how, when and where to be tested. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 15, 2020, 04:43:00 PM
A few days ago Merkel estimated 70% of Germans will get infected. A former German government disease control advisor estimated up to 40,000 German's can die based on the cases in China. That's a pretty steep death toll considering China has only 3200 deaths.

Today's news said UK figures COVID-19 will last until Spring 2021 and 7.9 million UK citizens will be hospitalized. It's figured 80% of Britons will be infected over that time. Paul Hunter, a professor of medicine at the University of East Anglia said "I think it will be around forever, but become less severe over time, as immunity builds up,” . A senior NHS figure involved in preparing for the growing “surge” in patients whose lives are being put at risk by Covid-19 said an 80% infection rate could lead to more than half a million people dying.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/15/uk-coronavirus-crisis-to-last-until-spring-2021-and-could-see-79m-hospitalised

Trump administration is trying to lure other countries labs to America. It's a good time to be a lab. Everybody wants to throw money at them.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/germany-tries-to-stop-us-poaching-german-firm-seeking-coronavirus-vaccine/ar-BB11dfdv?ocid=spartanntp

Look for a disinfectant containing Isopropyl Alcohol, not many know about it ;):


Some people are buying hydrogen peroxide, not for a disinfectant, but to drink. Some people think its good to beat cancer and aids. People are searching for their own cures and there's a lot of talk about hydrogen peroxide but I'm not buying it.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on March 15, 2020, 05:00:23 PM
Well, it looks like the hoarding crazies have infected our small town.  Wifey sent me out for eggs, hydrogen peroxide, mayo and I wanted to replenish my Vitamin C supply.

What a zoo!!  Went to seven stores today and was fortunate to buy the last jar of mayo.  For some reason my UA wife cannot live without it.

None of the 7 stores have any eggs.  None have any hydrogen peroxide.  I am surprised that so many people even know what it is or what it's for.  I did not bother to check for disinfectants or toilet paper but many shelves in the stores are empty.

I did manage to buy a bottle of Vitamin C.  It was only available in gummy format.  Not my first choice, but it will work.  Directions say to chew 3 of them per day.

Looks like the entrepreneurs are busy.  L.A. customs intercepted a large shipment from the UK that is full of fake Corona Virus test kits.  Hope people are prosecuted on both sides of the pond.
 http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/fake-coronavirus-testing-kits-seized-los-angeles-airport-69601035 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/fake-coronavirus-testing-kits-seized-los-angeles-airport-69601035)

Don't know how long the egg shortage is going to last but can only find baby chicks for sale.   :)


Doug,
I order all my vitamins from Puritans Pride (puritanspride.com). I just got some delivered last week. They often have a 3 for 2 sale.
Good luck,
HDL
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 15, 2020, 05:10:40 PM
...None of the 7 stores have any eggs.  None have any hydrogen peroxide.  I am surprised that so many people even know what it is or what it's for.  I did not bother to check for disinfectants or toilet paper but many shelves in the stores are empty....

Absolutely insane!! I remembered I was running low on oatmeal and debated with myself if I even wanted to go back to the grocery store since I was out there yesterday to get fresh vegetables. Maybe part of me was also curious to see if the madness I witness yesterday remained the same. Reluctantly, I went.

The flu and cold remedy section - bare. Cereal section - bare. Frozen food section (all variety) - bare, cake/pancake mix section - bare. Canned foods - gone. Grains/rice Section - bare. Pasta - almost (LOL)...bottled water - zip, and yes - toilet paper section - obliterated.

Someday, maybe weeks, months, even years from now...I would really like to know what was the mystery behind the 'toilet paper' phenomena. What caused people the world over to hoard this item as their security response to a viral pandemic. What comfort were these people finding in hoarding massive amounts of toilet paper today?

Does anyone know?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: rwd123 on March 15, 2020, 05:31:11 PM
Someday, maybe weeks, months, even years from now...I would really like to know what was the mystery behind the 'toilet paper' phenomena. What caused people the world over to hoard this item as their security response to a viral pandemic. What comfort were these people finding in hoarding massive amounts of toilet paper today?

Does anyone know?
It is herd behavior. People see others doing something so they do the same thing. Add an element of fear and people act completely irrationally.

Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan have both closed their borders for a month (similar to Ukraine). I know someone who got out literally at the last minute to return to Russia as it was enforced on the day it was announced. Russia has further borders closed (Norway, Georgia and train routes) and limited flights from Europe.

Russia has low numbers because they're not actively testing for the disease. The numbers are reported basically only if they are admitted to hospital. There was a confirmed case in Kemerovo so bugging out in Siberia won't be an option! The consumer panic hasn't hit there yet. I was told that there is an increase of pneumonia cases, so Russia was able to delay a mass outbreak but it will be coming soon.

It's worthwhile stocking up on basic medical supplies, supplements, and basic household goods. There will be massive impact supply chain issues. I figure it's worthwhile stocking up on basic things like shoes/socks, printing paper, hard drives/computer equipment, car maintenance gear, etc. All stuff you would purchase but bringing forward purchases so you can ride the dip.

I think the only thing I have bought that I don't normally buy is elderberry syrup and n95 masks.

Cleaning agents are worth buying even if they don't kill this particular virus. You still want to avoid a secondary infection such as a bacterial infection.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 15, 2020, 05:38:31 PM
latest guidelines in California. 

...65 and older told to stay indoors at home. 

....bars to close

...restaurants to cut capacity to 1/2

  I don't think restaurants will need to be concerned about capacities being reached.
My 74 year old buddy is ignoring the new restriction, and was hard at work today.

Sold out in generators and fuel storage devices, and numerous other items today.  I closed up shop about an hour ago, despite many more people clamoring.

  On a good note I didn't realize I shorted myself $100 on a sale and an honest Abe of a man *Probably illegal* came back after 20 minutes driving and informed me of my error and ponied up the $100.   

Fathertime!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 15, 2020, 05:41:15 PM
Some people are buying hydrogen peroxide, not for a disinfectant, but to drink. Some people think its good to beat cancer and aids. People are searching for their own cures and there's a lot of talk about hydrogen peroxide but I'm not buying it.
Unfortunately, this world is full of idiots :(.

Although usually sold in dark bottles (light decomposes it), even there it slowly loses its  antiseptic effectiveness since it is an unstable molecule.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 15, 2020, 05:42:40 PM
the virus will have at LEAST
5 growth phases....

I call them

1. linear
2. exponential
3. peak
3. decline
4. plateau


USA just entered exponential phase today....
the longer we wait before "total shutdown"
the larger AND longer steps 2 and 3 will be.....

look fellas....
in the exponential phase
your chance of getting it in a random public contact
is gonna double in just 3 days from now....
and 3 days after that it'll be 4 times higher (and so will I!)
and 3 days after that it'll be 8 times higher (and so will I!)
and 3 days after that it'll be 16 times higher (and so will I!)
and 3 days after that it'll be 32 times higher (and so will I!)
and 3 days after that it'll be 64 times higher (no...not this time, maybe 40%)

this means in less than two weeks, your chance of infection will have increased by 64 times...
and three days later it'll be 128 times more
and...
the in another 3 days it'll be 256 times more....

and your calendar still has a long, long way to go....

ok...

most of the people reading this board will have had at least one strain of Covid by the end of Spring 2021 a year from today...


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 15, 2020, 07:04:47 PM
the exponential phase


Digital coins have already taken a big hit. If it goes exponential in America, digital coins will exponentially go downhill. Since you invest in digital coins, how much has the virus set you back?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 15, 2020, 08:19:32 PM
the virus will have at LEAST
5 growth phases....

1. linear
2. exponential
3. peak
3. decline
4. plateau

 

The tracks of a man in a high state of anxiety.  You are getting closer to understanding this, keep reading.   

You could have saved a lot of time explaining mathematics of viral outbreaks by referencing this simple graphical demonstration of a viral disease infecting a town of 200 people. 

The interactive charts cover different scenarios (uncontrolled, forced quarantine, and different degrees of social distancing).

 http://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most

Please show me the "plateau." 





Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 15, 2020, 08:43:51 PM
the virus will have at LEAST
5 growth phases....

I call them

1. linear
2. exponential
3. peak
3. decline
4. plateau


If your prediction were true then the last several viruses would have
wiped us out. This latest virus is a difficult one for sure, but many will
be somewhat immune to it, others will get mildly sick and others will
not catch it.

We would have all died from the last several contagions otherwise.

Your math absolutely adds up, but even the flu which is much more
easily transmitted and more deadly doesn't wipe us out each year
but the math says it should. 

Humans are like cockroaches we survive.

A year from now, in my non-expert opinion we will be discussing
something else.

Udachi!

Bill
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 15, 2020, 09:13:36 PM

Trump took actions that were considered racist back in January to prevent exponential growth of infections. Trump seen it coming and didn't trust China and WHO that stated China had it under control and advised against travel restrictions

14 Vegas Hotels to close. I'm impressed with the amount of private businesses and organizations that are willing to shut down without being told by the government to save lives. Is that happening anywhere else in the world? I do think the American government will have to order complete shutdowns if hot spots pop up because not every business will shut down without being told.

http://www.latimes.com/travel/story/2020-03-15/14-vegas-strip-hotels-and-casinos-to-close-tuesday-because-of-coronavirus

Two more cruise ships under quarantine. Haven't people learned cruise ships are an ideal place for viruses to spread?

http://www.yahoo.com/news/chile-quarantines-1-300-aboard-two-cruise-ships-183226852.html

My State is shutting down bars, restaurants, places of entertainment and recreation statewide, and cap all public gatherings at 50 people. Still no lockdown though.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 15, 2020, 09:15:04 PM
It seems the goal is to spread out the cases for americans, so the hospital doesn't get slammed all at once.
 ...apparently the virus is everywhere (But I haven't seen it).    If that is the case, it is just a question of when many if not most people get ill from it.  If it is more gradual, more people can be saved.   If it all comes at once it is incredibly unpleasant to realize it may come down to some old people being sacrificed so the younger ones can be saved with scarce resources.   

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 15, 2020, 09:22:45 PM

14 Vegas Hotels to close. I'm impressed with the amount of private businesses and organizations that are willing to shut down without being told by the government to save lives.
 
the casinos probably pretty much had to close.  can you imagine having to deal cards in very close proximity  to a bunch of dirty sneezing nose pickers at the table?  I think the dealers were all about to call in sick, and I wouldn't blame them.    In addition to this, the casinos were reporting around 17% occupancy, they can't operate like that so they may as well shut down . 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 15, 2020, 09:37:23 PM
No Beel....

Flu is VERY temperature dependent!
in Austin this past year, Flu season began on September 19, 2019
I am sure you will be delighted to learn from the following useful information that I have carefully prepared JUST for YOU pertaining to EXACTLY where you live!
I will put your name on the bottom of the page so you know I’m not joking!
I even put a chart in there for YOU!!!

I do this, because one time you made a funny cartoon and it made me laugh, and your wife collects minerals, and I do that as well, and use it to make simple Jewelry for all the women I try to impress with it, because I have a small penis, I don’t mind saying that now, it’s true....
it doesn’t matter any more

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm

if you look at the chart I made of the flu infection rate for Austin, from the start of flu season on Sept 19, until March 7, and then compare the covid-19 virus infection rate in Wuhan, China from December 1 until March 7, you will see a very similar pattern...

earlier, it sure looked like Covid-19 was gonna be temperature sensitive like the flu
but NOW it seems NOT TO BE....
OR
it really is!
and it’s gonna just blow up like an atom bomb at the end of September
when the weather changes to Flu Season!

BTW, the Chinese Flu rate increased by 50% during the Dec to March time period
so both viruses seemed to like something in China this past winter....

but...
while Flu is not spreading NOW in the US of A
Covid-19 is blowing up....

the only thing that will slow down covid....
is that over time, as more and more people are infected from a particular strain
and become immune, they will not become carriers, so the rate of infection begins to slow

the bottom line
we are all going to have to accept death
maybe even something approaching extinction

and this will become clear to the survivors in a year or two

Beel,

this past year, Flu infected 40 to 50 million people in the USA
covid-19 is 50% more infectious than the flu
and no resistance
that's why the latest models are saying 50 to 70% infection rate a year from now
we're ALL GONNA get this
and multiple strains of it
then we're either gonna be dead
or immune

but what kinda world will the living be living in?
NO IDEA!!!
but it's NOT gonna look like this one at all....

Beel,
I am freaking sorry, don't blame ya for clinging to the denial
but within a week or two from now Bill
I promise you will see that what I'm telling you is TRUE
100% you and your wife, me and my wife, and everyone else and their wife
is GONNA GET SICK in the next year



Beel,
almost certainly by this time next year, you and your wife will have already had at least one strain of covid already






Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 15, 2020, 10:06:49 PM

Two emergency room doctors, one in his 40's, in Critical condition after getting infected. Photo in the link below shows what I see outside medic clinics and hospitals in King County. There's an effort to first screen people outside to protect medical staff inside.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/two-emergency-room-doctors-are-in-critical-condition-with-coronavirus/ar-BB11ecaw?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 15, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
yeah, I had my "last supper" tonight with a doctor friend...
he told me he doesn't expect to survive the year, he's old, could retire and buy a little extra time
but he's a doctor, damn it, not a mechanic
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 16, 2020, 12:52:35 AM
14 Vegas Hotels to close. I'm impressed with the amount of private businesses and organizations that are willing to shut down without being told by the government to save lives. Is that happening anywhere else in the world? I do think the American government will have to order complete shutdowns if hot spots pop up because not every business will shut down without being told.

In more ways than one, they were - technically. Social distance recommendation for starters is one. The pending Senate Phase one bill approval early Monday, followed by Phase Two Relief package. Many will call this ‘bailouts’, but I suppose this is part and parcel in these instances.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 16, 2020, 01:03:41 AM
It seems the goal is to spread out the cases for americans, so the hospital doesn't get slammed all at once.
 ...apparently the virus is everywhere (But I haven't seen it).    If that is the case, it is just a question of when many if not most people get ill from it.  If it is more gradual, more people can be saved.   If it all comes at once it is incredibly unpleasant to realize it may come down to some old people being sacrificed so the younger ones can be saved with scarce resources.   

Fathertime!

Yes but....how does the toilet paper phenomena fit into this scenario? I’m still struggling with the plot. I know BillyB, FP, Cal and GenM are so far the only ones that hoarded Vit C, yet didn’t really got involved with the toilet paper mode, so these dots didn’t connect.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 16, 2020, 02:37:43 AM
That is the next step to beating the virus. After the medical community gets enough kits, governments will be making kits for people to take home just like a pregnancy test. It's important to find people with little or no symptoms that are carriers to get them identified so they can be quarantined.

Indeed, and you'll probably find many of those stocking up on disinfectant and hand sanitizer have got it despite their efforts, lol.

Today I did a small shop, I visited two stores a large supermarket, Sainsbury's and a small one, Aldi. Both surprised me in being out of vitamin C tablets, so many people must be incredibly anxious about this whole thing. The large supermarket was completely out of toilet paper, while the small one had a small supply, I got a six pack to use and am keeping the rest in reserve. Both were very low on kitchen towel but I don't use that as I prefer a dish cloth. I managed to get my hands on some more disinfectant at a cheap price, all the good stuff was sold out, Dettol, etc. Hand wash was completely out in the large store and only the non antibacterial stuff in the small store. I got to both supermarket at opening time, 7am & 8am as did a few others. They should have both had way more stock of these in demand items as the shelf filling usually happens over night. Looks very much like they didn't get any deliveries though. Those businesses are probably doing very well. I can see a lot of other businesses going under though.

In the longer term the loss of restaurants are not a big deal as others will open and take their place after this mess is over, Hotels probably similar but possibly longer to come back from. Airlines I think are likely to have a much harder time and if there are any left it might just end up a few big players.

Peoples jobs in stuff like Supermarkets and hospitals will be as sound as a pound, the above businesses and others that will lose out I feel sorry for the staff and the owners are going to be hit hard. I'm in a job where it is probably on going and probably won't be affected much, difficult to tell as it depends on quarentine stuff, etc but there is generally a need for me to be there and is unlikely to be in the direct firing line of businesses that will be hit.

I still think that minimising the shut down of the economy is key in fighting this problem. Certain sectors will be hit hard and essentially shut down like restaurants but in general it is best that employment stays up to keep people & the country going.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 16, 2020, 03:02:26 AM
I wonder if our Mobes is ok, he's normally arguing like an Oirishman here. I hope he hasn't come down with anything.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 16, 2020, 03:10:40 AM
A few months ago I ordered and got 2 kilos of vitamin C. I also got nascent iodine and selenium for the thyroid. The best vitamin C (It's a complex) comes from sauerkraut. A cup of cabbage contains 30 mg of vitamin C. A cup of fermented cabbage, sauerkraut 700 mg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj9tIVIRqSY&t=38s
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 16, 2020, 03:22:44 AM
A reminder here that despite possible mild cases of how bad the virus can get, a paramedic aged 47 in Italy dies of Coronavirus:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/italian-paramedic-dies-coronavirus-after-21697463.amp

He apparently had no underlying health problems either. I wonder though if he had been working long hours which put his heart under more strain in addition to the virus.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 16, 2020, 04:05:54 AM
Yes but....how does the toilet paper phenomena fit into this scenario? I’m still struggling with the plot. I know BillyB, FP, Cal and GenM are so far the only ones that hoarded Vit C, yet didn’t really got involved with the toilet paper mode, so these dots didn’t connect.

No hoarding for me brah. I actually keep VC on hand year 'round. I believe in it
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on March 16, 2020, 04:10:45 AM
ISIS issues travel warning

ISIS’ al-Naba newsletter contains “sharia directives” urging its healthy members not to enter “the land of the epidemic” to avoid becoming infected . Ill members are encouraged to stay and infect others


Meanwhile, Vegas throws in the towel, all MGM and Wynn hotels close tomorrow. I heard Encore had only a 5% occupancy this past weekend

California, Ohio, Illinois, Massachusetts and Washington close bars and restaurants in effort to slow coronavirus
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 16, 2020, 05:11:14 AM
I don't know about you guys in the US but I think at the moment in the UK the worst part is waiting for an impending lockdown. It probably won't happen just yet, I imagine in a week or so's time probably starting off with London first then moving to the major cities and then finally the region's a few weeks from now at a guess. At the moment in the south of England & Wales region the numbers aren't that high yet. It's still relatively safe. Precautions are being made such as the cleaning of baskets in shops each day and some some staff wearing gloves.

I don't know how easy it will be to lockdown a large city like London as a lot of people commute in for work. Some will be able to work from home, some I'm guessing won't.

I live about 5 miles from where I work so drive in. A lockdown I don't think will affect that as I work in a fairly small town and not a big city. I will watch out to see if petrol might come under a shortage. Petrol prices are cheap at the moment and supply plentiful so it might be ok, but if it changes I will have to stock up a little. I might just get a big 20 litre can in advance just in case to prepare as I can always use it. Other than that I will have to get new tyres for my cycle. Warmer weather is on the way so I could cycle in if it got to it, I really would rather do that then risk public transport. How about you guys?

BC how are things with the lockdown in Italy?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 16, 2020, 06:02:19 AM
Hard to believe Spain had surpassed So Korea in all categories already. Of course their hot zone is Madrid. Doesn’t bode well for LA.  😱

I can’t believe they’re still having spring break in Miami.

Apparently they’re already administering a vaccine to 4 volunteers in Seattle. But the most promising development is they’re harvesting anti-bodies from those who recovered and are slowly applying it to first responders. Constant observation and monitoring to see how successful this is for widespread administration. This therapy is still basically in what they call ‘clinical trial’ but apparently showing promising result.

This work is being done by John Hopkins, Baylor in concert with BARDA, BioMedical Advance Research development Authority.

http://www.phe.gov/about/barda/Pages/default.aspx
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 16, 2020, 06:18:49 AM
Yes but....how does the toilet paper phenomena fit into this scenario? I’m still struggling with the plot. I know BillyB, FP, Cal and GenM are so far the only ones that hoarded Vit C, yet didn’t really got involved with the toilet paper mode, so these dots didn’t connect.

People lose confidence.

There was a quick run on the stores here and photos of empty shelves posted a week ago here but the guv stepped in quickly guaranteed that stores will be stocked normally.  Folks stopped buying and saw that stores filled up again with a few exceptions like hand sanitizer which is still impossible and flour which can be spotty. Considering many make their own pasta maybe not so unusual.  Otherwise, no problems except that the fish market reported that warez will be scarce since a lot of fishermen are not fishing due to low demand (restaurants and open markets closed)  Plenty of frozen fish though.  I guess folks have confidence and trust what guv is saying and saw results.

Seems TP may be something like comfort food.  Nice to know you have it and is cheap so you can keep a lot of it.  I'd much rather folks hoard TP than some other stuff.  Fear is a powerful emotion that reeks of lack of confidence with goings-on.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 16, 2020, 06:19:57 AM

I live about 5 miles from where I work so drive in. A lockdown I don't think will affect that as I work in a fairly small town and not a big city. I will watch out to see if petrol might come under a shortage. Petrol prices are cheap at the moment and supply plentiful so it might be ok, but if it changes I will have to stock up a little. I might just get a big 20 litre can in advance just in case to prepare as I can always use it.
US is now planning on buying 77 million barrels of oil to put in reserve...yet the price continues to plummet. 

a lot of people have already bought storage containers and probably filled them by now in anticipation of a bad scenario.  I told my family to keep the gas tanks near full at all times. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 16, 2020, 06:34:54 AM
People lose confidence.

LMAO. Nutty people didn’t need a pandemic to hoard guns. I think some probably need it to guard their toilet papers.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 16, 2020, 06:48:35 AM
BC how are things with the lockdown in Italy?

Same as yesterday.  Package delivery guy said they are working half days now, not many folks are sending packages these days.  Waiting to see in a couple of hours if the number of new infections is starting to level off.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 16, 2020, 06:56:29 AM
US is now planning on buying 77 million barrels of oil to put in reserve...yet the price continues to plummet. 

a lot of people have already bought storage containers and probably filled them by now in anticipation of a bad scenario.  I told my family to keep the gas tanks near full at all times. 

Fathertime!

Hilarious, should have guessed the gun nuts you have over there would be building an arsenal any banana republic Presidente would be envious off, LOL  >:( :ROFL:

Yeah I'm trying to keep my tank near full but do a longish trip of about 80 each way per week at present. That will go if either a shortage in petrol, money or a lockdown occurs. At present we/I am fine for all. I think I'll still get a 20 litre can & fill it as if a rush occurs it can go quick, plus it's cheap at the moment.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 16, 2020, 06:58:38 AM
Same as yesterday.  Package delivery guy said they are working half days now, not many folks are sending packages these days.  Waiting to see in a couple of hours if the number of new infections is starting to level off.

Ah, different here at least for me at present, been ordering a load of stuff in through Amazon to prepare for it. Will have to ease up soon as bank balance is taking a bit of a pounding.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 16, 2020, 07:33:27 AM
I think I'll still get a 20 litre can & fill it as if a rush occurs it can go quick, plus it's cheap at the moment.

Will have to ease up soon as bank balance is taking a bit of a pounding.
Don't be a penny pinching survivalist!  I say go great guns, buy all you can while your money still has value. 

Fathertime!   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 16, 2020, 07:37:06 AM
LMAO. Nutty people didn’t need a pandemic to hoard guns. I think some probably need it to guard their toilet papers.

Hilarious, should have guessed the gun nuts you have over there would be building an arsenal any banana republic Presidente would be envious off, LOL  >:( :ROFL:

As GQ already mentioned, TP stockpiles are to be guarded  at the same level as nuclear silos. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 16, 2020, 07:42:17 AM
Any others here with packrat mentality wives?  I've complained for years here that cabinets, fridge, freezers etc are so full of stuff one can't even find anything anymore much less put more inside.

We even bought the smallest car we could find and the whole family has to still go help unload with several loads each.. amazing how much fits in that thing.

Aside from cabinets throughout the house, two fridges, one full freezer and a commercial beverage fridge - all packed since far before this virus thing.

I'm quite happy to see some of that being used up before it expires and gets tossed.

I shoulda known when first went to future MIL's house and found a wall of potato sacks in the entryway LOL
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 16, 2020, 07:51:32 AM
Italy's warning to the world. Don't be foolish or selfish. Change your behavior. Medical personal are crying having to make decisions who's lives get priority to save. Lots of stress and unnecessary deaths.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03/13/opinion/coronavirus-cautionary-tale-italy-dont-do-what-we-did/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

I wonder if our Mobes is ok, he's normally arguing like an Oirishman here. I hope he hasn't come down with anything.


Moby is in panic mode. While Trump made travel restrictions in January, Moby criticized Trump and sent his wife on vacation to Thailand. All through February, Moby criticized Trump for doing too much or too little and talked about reuniting with his wife in February. He thought the sky was falling with Brexit. He was wrong. The sky is falling now but he was clueless while claiming Trump didn't know what he was doing. Now we are past the middle of March and his wife is still stuck in Thailand. He should've been a MAN and brought her home sooner but he failed to understand the seriousness of the virus and situation around him with airlines stopped flying planes and nations are closing borders. Moby has citizenship in the West and his wife has Russian citizenship. They need to find a country that they are both allowed to be in if they want to reunite. Of course the country they choose will probably lock one or both of them down before letting them see each other. In the past, Moby got his wife locked up in immigration jail trying to sneak in the back door of the UK. I say it's his turn to get locked up for 2+ weeks in quarantine.

Any others here with packrat mentality wives?  I've complained for years here that cabinets, fridge, freezers etc are so full of stuff one can't even find anything anymore much less put more inside.


My wife isn't  packrat. She complained I bought too much stuff in January and early February stocking the cabinets before the panic shopping happened. I've never done that before but after reading about the panic in China and characteristics of the virus, I knew it was a bad one and would come here. I didn't believe China when they said it wasn't so bad and they are managing the spread. What they had to do to their people locking them down, our governments would have to do too.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 16, 2020, 08:42:10 AM
http://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03/13/opinion/coronavirus-cautionary-tale-italy-dont-do-what-we-did/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Excellent article!! I can't help but wonder how much arrogance played in the early days of this tragic reality by putting so much trust in a system to be superior over others.

Add up the tragedy in Europe as a region and you can't miss the fact their confirmed cases is hardly half of China, but their death count is almost as much. Their rate of recovery is twice as slow, too. Recovery rate to date China/Italy is mind numbing. China at 83%, Italy at 9%!!! How is this possible?

I'm really glad Trump banned travels from China when he did. In hindsight though, I wished he did it globally instead of just China.

As for the latest 'Americans' coming in from abroad, I would've preferred they were somehow quarantined temporarily in an established location and slowly and individually screened before being let out on their own.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 16, 2020, 08:45:39 AM

As governments give people bad news locking them down a flurry of good news articles pop up from media all over the world claiming labs in their country are close to finding a vaccine. Fake news but gives people hope.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 16, 2020, 09:14:21 AM

Moby is in panic mode. While Trump made travel restrictions in January, Moby criticized Trump and sent his wife on vacation to Thailand. All through February, Moby criticized Trump for doing too much or too little and talked about reuniting with his wife in February. He thought the sky was falling with Brexit. He was wrong. The sky is falling now but he was clueless while claiming Trump didn't know what he was doing. Now we are past the middle of March and his wife is still stuck in Thailand. He should've been a MAN and brought her home sooner but he failed to understand the seriousness of the virus and situation around him with airlines stopped flying planes and nations are closing borders. Moby has citizenship in the West and his wife has Russian citizenship. They need to find a country that they are both allowed to be in if they want to reunite. Of course the country they choose will probably lock one or both of them down before letting them see each other. In the past, Moby got his wife locked up in immigration jail trying to sneak in the back door of the UK. I say it's his turn to get locked up for 2+ weeks in quarantine.

Man that guy is a laugh a minute :ROFL: Yeah, he's probably looking at the map of countries like a board/chess game, everywhere he tries a move he is blocked off. I think he got a bit cocky and underestimated the seriousness of this virus. He was certainly silly to leave his wife in Thailand while this all started kicking off. Odds are he could be blocked out of seeing her for months. Nothing but news reports of airlines cutting their routes and lockdowns/borders being shut. Maybe Syria can accommodate our Mobes, I think he's probably crazy enough to try.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 16, 2020, 09:20:11 AM
Don't be a penny pinching survivalist!  I say go great guns, buy all you can while your money still has value. 

Fathertime!

Yeah, I thought of that too. I was thinking of shelling out majorly but decided to pace myself a little for now. There is still a reasonable chance that things will eventually come around and it retain its value, if it does I don't want to be looking a big credit card bill. If it looks like it could hyper-inflate then I'll spend. Maybe TP will become the new currency of worth, employers will pay so many sheets per hour!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 16, 2020, 09:24:45 AM
S&P Just shed nearly $2 trillion from opening. The madness prompted another 'pause' in the trading. I'm not convinced the Feds dropping the interest rates was a good idea. WTF? Total global contraction!!

This is starting to feel like a fabricated chaos. Not saying it is, but so many unexplained 'reactions' caused by this current 'pandemic' that still has to measure up to ones in recent past.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 16, 2020, 09:33:43 AM
S&P Just shed nearly $2 trillion from opening. The madness prompted another 'pause' in the trading. I'm not convinced the Feds dropping the interest rates was a good idea. WTF? Total global contraction!!

This is starting to feel like a fabricated chaos. Not saying it is, but so many unexplained 'reactions' caused by this current 'pandemic' that still has to measure up to ones in recent past.

Yeah, Carney dropped UK Bank of England interest rates by half a percent to 0.25 percent about a day before he finished in the post. That man was a menace all the time he was in the post, he had no clue and it was just lucky we've had a robust economy to withstand his previous unjustifiable interference. This time though it looks like he may have permanently screwed it up for us. The pound is down against the euro & the dollar big time. Now 1.10 Euro to the pound & 1.23 Dollars to the Pound. It would have been better to do nothing, he's only introduced fear into the markets by highlighting the situation that didn't need highlighting.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 16, 2020, 09:58:42 AM
S&P Just shed nearly $2 trillion from opening. The madness prompted another 'pause' in the trading. I'm not convinced the Feds dropping the interest rates was a good idea. WTF? Total global contraction!!

This is starting to feel like a fabricated chaos. Not saying it is, but so many unexplained 'reactions' caused by this current 'pandemic' that still has to measure up to ones in recent past.

No, it's just that there is already tons of liquidity already in the system.  The unexplained reaction has been all the attempts to prop up the markets in the past when the cashier tills were ringing long and loud.  QE is back.

Buying oil for reserves is again simply a way of trying to artificially increase demand and prices.  Bum deal as this is bound to fail as well.  Not very businesslike and totally contrary to administration policy which until now has been against the action taken in times of crisis by past administrations.

Doesn't look pretty, but if someone is interested in long term investments we may be nearing time to invest a bit as it seems the markets have already calculated and priced for a lot of risk.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 16, 2020, 10:18:28 AM
the slope of the covid infection curve is getting bigger!!!
so X / Y
couple days ago X was about 1/2
then it went to 1
now it’s at 2....
and I suspect “real soon now”, it’s gonna be 4

one day it might be X squared

see attached illustration that illustrates the curve that we’re all gonna get graded on


BTW

liquidity is so the banks can loan money to pretty much every single business in the USA...
where does the money come from?
it's not "borrowed"
the treasury can create credit
it can print money many different ways
like the Treasury can give a trillion dollars of credit to the 12 federal reserve banks to loan to other banks
by just typing a few keys on their Chinese made computer in Washing Tundy Sea



a tasty carrot to offer to keep vital businesses functioning...
I mean cuz otherwise, it would be socialism...
if you took the profit motive out of capitalism
and acted in the people's interests and not in capital's interests at the expense of the people

capitalism always gives people enough rope to hang themselves eventually
like NOW folks!

a socialist economy will not have spend trillions to prop up the stock market
while only spending billions to protect the people, but even that ONLY AFTER the stock market fell...

when geezers die out in the next couple of years
young people are overwhelmingly going  to want something more communistic....

seriously guys, few years from now, if any of us are still left alive
we would not be able to recognize the new world!!!!
things are gonna change THAT much!!!

doncha all see that yet?





 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 16, 2020, 10:25:59 AM
Quote from: BC
No, it's just that there is already tons of liquidity already in the system.  The unexplained reaction has been all the attempts to prop up the markets in the past when the cashier tills were ringing long and loud.  QE is back.

Buying oil for reserves is again simply a way of trying to artificially increase demand and prices.  Bum deal as this is bound to fail as well.  Not very businesslike and totally contrary to administration policy which until now has been against the action taken in times of crisis by past administrations.

Doesn't look pretty, but if someone is interested in long term investments we may be nearing time to invest a bit as it seems the markets have already calculated and priced for a lot of risk.

Just not sure if this was a sound move by the CB since the current climate is not caused by a financial collapse.

I understand something needs to be done to avert any contraction, but the Q2 is already locked in. It's inevitable to contract. Dunno. Not sure what the 'long term' effect of all these once this current global condition changes back to normal. Hell, the Dow was pushing at 30, and is now back to 20...

Apparently China had been pushed back so much, they're at a level where they were 30 years ago.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 16, 2020, 10:30:26 AM
Waiting to see in a couple of hours if the number of new infections is starting to level off.

I hope so, because the graphs say otherwise. 

The Italy graph is more disconcerting than the China graph.   The number of China infections  started to plateau (level off) a month ago.   Italy is not leveling off.  Worse the slope of Italy's graph is steeper than China 6 weeks ago before China started to level off.

To be even more disconcerting, the world outside China shows a faster growth rate of infection than China's rate 6 weeks ago.  This can be seen in the John Hopkins graph of COVID-19 cases.  Go to the chart in the lower right,  make into a full page, and expand. 

As of today, the number of cases reported outside of China exceeds the number reported inside China, and growing rapidly.     

 http://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 16, 2020, 10:34:09 AM
it's VERY important to watch what happens in China now...

what happens when flu season comes
what happens when they loosen quarantine
watch for new strains

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on March 16, 2020, 10:48:11 AM
We got our first Corona Virus case in San Bernardino county today.  It's amazing it took this long considering how large the county is.  Reported in Fontana at Kaiser Hospital.  It was a woman in her 50's that had just returned from the UK according to the news reports.

On the way home from work today I will check and see if Redlands stores have received any eggs today.  Every store was sold out yesterday.  How silly this hoarding is.  Stockpiling perishable goods just doesn't make any sense.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 16, 2020, 10:48:55 AM
Yeah, Carney dropped UK Bank of England interest rates by half a percent to 0.25 percent about a day before he finished in the post. That man was a menace all the time he was in the post, he had no clue and it was just lucky we've had a robust economy to withstand his previous unjustifiable interference. This time though it looks like he may have permanently screwed it up for us. The pound is down against the euro & the dollar big time. Now 1.10 Euro to the pound & 1.23 Dollars to the Pound. It would have been better to do nothing, he's only introduced fear into the markets by highlighting the situation that didn't need highlighting.

Trench,

You are a total Muppet..

The Bank of England was SUPPOSED to be independent of govt, but they AGREED to the cut....tying in with the budget!

So, Trench....you are effectively saying our govt is made up of idiots....


YOU voted for them....

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 16, 2020, 11:10:00 AM
Krimster is not the odd fellow.  I went shopping today, and can sense a mood change.  There are many Krimsters.  So many that I predict panic unless we implement some form of martial law

Our local police do not have the forces to perform their current duties and assume the added responsibility of providing order for:

    -  the thousands of new testing modules now being established,   
    -  the hospitals in 3-4 weeks when serious cases test their capacity, 
    -  food stores if hoarding accelerates,
    -  toilet paper factories,
    -  etc.   

Therefore, I assign a  75% probability that we will soon see our military deployed on our streets.

I am serious.  Hopefully I am wrong and just influenced by the level of anxiety exhibited within my home (as if I am married to a female Krimster2).   :D 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 16, 2020, 11:11:12 AM

Krimster is not the odd fellow.  I went shopping today, and can sense a mood change.  Krimsters were all around me.  So many that I predict panic unless we implement some form of martial law

Our local police do not have the forces to perform their current duties and assume the added responsibility of providing order for:

    -  the thousands of new testing modules now being established,   
    -  the hospitals in 3-4 weeks when serious cases test their capacity, 
    -  food stores if hoarding accelerates,
    -  toilet paper factories,
    -  etc.   

Therefore, I assign a  75% probability that we will soon see our military deployed on our streets.

I am serious.  Hopefully I am wrong and just influenced by the level of anxiety exhibited within my home (as if I am married to a female Krimster2).   :D
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 16, 2020, 11:11:17 AM
it's not just people over buying
you are starting to have a supply problem as well
every part of the food supply chain is gonna start cracking

the first peak of the virus will happen between may and july in the US of A
when do you wanna be out collecting can goods?
now, when only 1 out of every 1,000 is infected or 1 out of every 10 like at the end of July?

how long are they gonna make you heart meds?
how much of a supply do you have?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 16, 2020, 11:26:25 AM
Russia not allowing in non citizens / non residents until May 2nd.. ((

Source: Russia Today
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 16, 2020, 11:45:16 AM
Russia not allowing in non citizens / non residents until May 2nd.. ((


This thing isn't going away in a few months. It will die down then may explode again if we don't round up all the infected and they re-infect the population through community spread. Nations may have to implement China style quarantines to get control over the virus. Still, China is finding new infections everyday. What is your plan to reunite with your wife? Are there even any options available?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 16, 2020, 11:48:49 AM
I hope so, because the graphs say otherwise. 

The Italy graph is more disconcerting than the China graph.   The number of China infections  started to plateau (level off) a month ago.   Italy is not leveling off.  Worse the slope of Italy's graph is steeper than China 6 weeks ago before China started to level off.


Gator,

The data is in for today.  The number of new infections may be an early sign things are starting to level off while total infections, of course, continue to rise steadily.  I tend to keep my eye on new infections and the number of cases in intensive care which for the region of Lombardia is rising from around 500 the beginning of last week to over 800 today indicating that additional capacity is being added regularly.  Other regions south seem much more stable  Certainly not an all clear, but maybe a shimmer of hope.  A mistake was made, that of not locking down the entire country instead of just hot areas at first.  Beware.

http://opendatadpc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/b0c68bce2cce478eaac82fe38d4138b1

It does seem that lockdown has had a positive effect, figures in our region have been stable most of the week with less than 10 in intensive care all week long.  Hope it remains that way.  There is a huge difference between north and south Italy. 

As to the graph slope Italy vs China, too many variables like how much time it took to develop the test in China, when testing started, in which quantity testing was done etc. Of course, testing, in large quantity started later here than China.  The slope, at least initially, is defined by testing capability as it ramps up and doesn't show actual cases.  This my fear for the US with folks looking at graphs and thinking not much to worry about..  The 500 new cases reported in the US in the last 24 hours does seem to show that testing is starting to ramp up.  I hope testing expands rapidly that will show the true extent of infections and a better idea what we can expect.






Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 16, 2020, 12:01:40 PM

Therefore, I assign a  75% probability that we will soon see our military deployed on our streets.

I am serious. 

There is a 450 page CDC plan that lists steps leadership can take to help prevent such a breakdown and violence occurring.  Unfortunately much seems to have been ignored.

http://emergency.cdc.gov/cerc/ppt/cerc_2014edition_Copy.pdf

It does make for interesting reading.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 16, 2020, 12:23:44 PM

The data is in for today.  The number of new infections may be an early sign things are starting to level off while total infections, of course, continue to rise steadily. 

I see a downtick in your chart of the daily incremental cases.   Great.  Hope it holds. 

Unlike China your chart shows the number of recovered only 25% greater than the number of deaths.   News reporters here say the Italian population is one of the oldest (fewer babies) in Europe and older than America's.  That would be a factor.  How about percentage of smokers? 

Quote

It does seem that lockdown has had a positive effect, figures in our region have been stable most of the week with less than 10 in intensive care all week long.  Hope it remains that way.  There is a huge difference between north and south Italy. 


In hindsight, it is now apparent the sooner the lockdown, the better, perhaps starting with the first cases, ahead of community spreading cases.   



Quote
The 500 new cases reported in the US in the last 24 hours does seem to show that testing is starting to ramp up.  I hope testing expands rapidly that will show the true extent of infections and a better idea what we can expect.

We can predict it now.  We will see a huge spike simply because we will quickly be testing 104  more each day.   What to expect?  Fear and overreaction.


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 16, 2020, 12:42:56 PM
S&P Just shed nearly $2 trillion from opening. The madness prompted another 'pause' in the trading. I'm not convinced the Feds dropping the interest rates was a good idea. WTF? Total global contraction!!

The Fed's move is unprecedented.  Supposedly the financial markets were not functioning correctly with red lights flashing.  That is another way of saying there were not enough  buyers even at reduced prices. 

Many experts agree with you and are questioning the Fed's move.  We entered this viral crisis in a great position, having more cushion than the central banks of Europe., having an economy more robust than Europe's.   That cushion we had is greatly diminished.     

Government is trying to "flatten the curve" of infections in regard to preparing for the demands placed on our healthcare systems.  Some people claim such measures as closing commercial establishments, schools, etc.  are too early.  The response:   better safe now than sorry later.   

The Fed's move could be in the same spirit.
 

Quote
This is starting to feel like a fabricated chaos. Not saying it is, but so many unexplained 'reactions' caused by this current 'pandemic' that still has to measure up to ones in recent past.

It seems so bizarre to see commercial business shutter.  We are a consumer economy, now with less  money for consuming.   It is temporary, yet the extent is too broad to give feelings of optimism.  We will survive.  We will prevail.  And then we will thrive.  However, it will not be  a "V" recovery.   
 
I wonder how the fearless, moral, patriotic, hardworking, united people of the WWI era behaved during the Spanish Flu. 

For sure we are not the same innocent people of the era when Hit Parade's No. 1 song was "How Much is that Doggy in the Window."       
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 16, 2020, 12:45:08 PM


Unlike China your chart shows the number of deaths only slightly above the number of recovered.

What is shown as 'recovered' are those that have been discharged from hospital care so a fuzzy figure.

Quote
News reporters here say the Italian population is one of the oldest (fewer babies) in Europe and older than America's.  That would be a factor.
 

Indeed supported by the data and median age of deaths in the 80's but reportedly falling.


Quote
How about percentage of smokers? 

Not in the data.

Quote
In hindsight, it is now apparent the sooner the lockdown, the better, perhaps starting with the first cases, ahead of community spreading cases.
 

I tend to agree and the numbers seem to support it.  Italy was able to publish a national lockdown plan with specific things that folks should do or not do along with implementing controls.  I doubt an efficient lockdown will be possible or generally heeded by the population in the US.  If the troops have to come out to enforce, violence is very likely to follow.  The virus is a national problem that needs national solutions and guidelines.  That's not happening with each state deciding for themselves and the administration and CDC only providing recommendations.

Quote
We can predict it now.  We will see a huge spike simply because we will quickly be testing 104  more each day.   What to expect?  Fear and overreaction.

104 daily is very, very optimistic.  Looks like it will be well into next week before a good number of labs and equipment are set up.  The US is a big country, much bigger than Italy.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 16, 2020, 01:06:55 PM
Do we know why Germany has had 15 deaths from 7,241 confirmed cases and yet here in the UK we've had 55 deaths from just 1,543 confirmed cases.?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 16, 2020, 01:20:05 PM
Chelseaboy,

maybe just a matter of time.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 16, 2020, 01:37:48 PM

Trump administration is trying to lure other countries labs to America. It's a good time to be a lab. Everybody wants to throw money at them.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/germany-tries-to-stop-us-poaching-german-firm-seeking-coronavirus-vaccine/ar-BB11dfdv?ocid=spartanntp


I'm glad this type of hoarding was nixed, with the company refusing Trump's offer.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 16, 2020, 01:51:54 PM
I'm glad this type of hoarding was nixed, with the company refusing Trump's offer.

LMAO! This rumour is way overplayed. Curevac had received and accepted monies from all sources including the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation for a whole slew of things. It avails its research from many different organization and countries and had even received seed funding from the same. Just as the US - like any other countries, including past administrations - solicit such foreign companies exactly for such services.

All of these research laboratories are 'for hire', including US-based. This was once termed 'globalization'. Remember that?

Anyway, the first clinical trial 'vaccine' administration was done in Seattle today. There apparently were 45 volunteers between the ages of 18-55. The administration will comprise of two phases - Zero day (today) and 28th day.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 16, 2020, 01:55:34 PM
Do we know why Germany has had 15 deaths from 7,241 confirmed cases and yet here in the UK we've had 55 deaths from just 1,543 confirmed cases.?

Without actual data, very difficult to ascertain why - right now. It may well simply be because of the individuals involved i.e. age, state of health, etc...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on March 16, 2020, 02:12:14 PM
It's a very good question and it deserves an answer without political spin.  Again, without defining the database it is all speculation.

Learned this morning that one of our engineers has his wife stuck in Spain.  She is there with 23 American students that are trying to get home.  They had initially planned to take a flight from Barcelona to JFK and were told today that they would have to return via Heathrow.  Needless to say he is on needles and pins.

A question of perspective...... As of today, how many deaths this season have occurred due to the flu vs. how many deaths due to the Corona Virus.  Does anyone know?

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 16, 2020, 02:30:31 PM
Do we know why Germany has had 15 deaths from 7,241 confirmed cases and yet here in the UK we've had 55 deaths from just 1,543 confirmed cases.?

Germany has always been slow reporting. Every nation reports the way they want to report. I seen S Korea's behavior in reporting change. They started off having high deaths and same ratio in recoveries like Italy. They haven't reported much deaths lately yet they report a lot more recoveries. Politicians such as Prez Moon is under a lot of heat. Many will lose their jobs. There could be some number manipulations like what goes on in China. My guess is there are a lot more people dead than what's been reported. Just over 7000 reported deaths total in the world and nearly every nation is behaving like the end of the world is coming.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 16, 2020, 02:49:16 PM
Billy,

      Yes all very odd.

1.5 million people died of TB worldwide in 2018 but no talk of lockdowns then.

Because of the Governments responses to the Corona virus,with borders being sealed ,flights being cancelled,pubs and restaurants being told to close, thousands and thousands /millions of people won't be able to pay their bills. ..it's leading up to anarchy in the UK.

All for a virus that has so far killed 7,000 people worldwide in three months.

Something doesn't add up.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 16, 2020, 03:05:32 PM
by mid-April, the USA will have more cases than China...
and after mid-April, it's another six weeks before the virus STARTS to reach its first peak

if this rebounds AGAIN in Flu season or when quarantine ends...
then I expect 2-3 times the number of deaths from Spanish Flu in the USA
in the FIRST year!!!!!

or as the President would say "the virus is a democratic hoax, every bit as much a hoax as the Meuller investigation and my perfect phone call to Ukraine"
first truth he has ever told

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 16, 2020, 03:17:58 PM
Chelseaboy,

maybe just a matter of time.

Exactly, BC's chart shows most of the cases are recent infections. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 16, 2020, 04:00:46 PM
Anyway, the first clinical trial 'vaccine' administration was done in Seattle today. There apparently were 45 volunteers between the ages of 18-55. The administration will comprise of two phases - Zero day (today) and 28th day.

Great News!   :)

But first a correction.  "Phases" is misleading.  The study now underway is referred to as Phase One Clinical Trial.   A new drug must go through three clinical trials before being submitted to the FDA for review and possible approval. 

          Phase One:  20 - 80 participants 
          Phase Two:  100 -300
          Phase Three:  1,000 - 3,000



The new drug went through preclinical development, and received  the fastest FDA approval in history for a Phase One Trial (testing in humans).   Quantity of dosages will be varied among the test volunteers, who will be monitored for a year.  Let's hope it functions to induce human cells to produce antibodies against COVID-19.

There are other candidate vaccines being considered for COVID-19. 

The bad news:   vaccines for several diseases have been studied over many years without success.  Cholera, a historic disease, had it first vaccine approved by FDA not until 2016.   


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 16, 2020, 04:12:48 PM
For anyone checking UK figures.. they are meaningless bollox ..

'We' are not testing folk who claim to be ill with the virus at the mo ..  despite WHO requests

Apart from who's died from it ... 

'We' have no idea



http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/coronavirus-government-vows-accelerate-testing (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/coronavirus-government-vows-accelerate-testing)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 16, 2020, 04:14:43 PM
and who was Waldemar Haffkine then?
a chopped liver salesman in Liverpool?

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 16, 2020, 05:04:48 PM
As Bruce Palmer once sang, For What It's Worth...

~ Illnesses range from mild to severe and even death. Hospitalization and death occur mainly among high risk groups. Worldwide, these annual epidemics are estimated to result in about 3 to 5 million cases of severe illness, and about 290 000 to 650 000 respiratory deaths.

In industrialized countries most deaths associated with influenza occur among people age 65 or older (1). Epidemics can result in high levels of worker/school absenteeism and productivity losses. Clinics and hospitals can be overwhelmed during peak illness periods. ~

http://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/influenza-(seasonal)

This literally happens every year, yet no one even blinks.

Crazy!

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 16, 2020, 05:27:14 PM
I remember South Korea was a couple a days ahead of Italy with their outbreaks. Infections, deaths, and recoveries for both countries were about the same and ratios between categories were the same then something happened. Citizens were pissed at prez Moon and South Korea's numbers began to look more like China's instead of Italy's.

I went back and seen I once reported S Korea' s numbers as having 50 deaths and 118 recoveries which was similar to Italy's reporting at the time. Now S korea reports only 75 deaths and 1137 recoveries while Italy reports 2158 deaths and 2749 recoveries. Big difference in death to recovery ratios between two nations that started their outbreaks almost at the same time.

In industrialized countries most deaths associated with influenza occur among people age 65 or older (1). Epidemics can result in high levels of worker/school absenteeism and productivity losses. Clinics and hospitals can be overwhelmed during peak illness periods. ~

http://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/influenza-(seasonal)

This literally happens every year, yet no one even blinks.

Crazy!



COVID-19 is much different than any pathogen anybody alive has experienced. The truth is scarier than the reports. When China was reporting death to recovery rations, people weren't nervous. Now they see Italy's numbers, they see a much higher percentage of people dying and chances are there will be no cure or anti viral medicine ever made.

A good thing that will come with the lock downs is not only we will reduce the numbers of COVID-19 infections, there will be less flus, less colds, and less fighting except over tp, so there will be a reduced load on hospitals so they can free up manpower and resources to fight COVID-19


'We' are not testing folk who claim to be ill with the virus at the mo ..  despite WHO requests


WHO would like everybody in the world to be testing but it's not going to happen tomorrow and even after person is tested, they can get infected minutes later. I'm not too fond of WHO right now. After lives are lost and economies are shattered, the survivors can go back and put the pieces together and see that WHO dropped the ball early in the game.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 16, 2020, 05:35:27 PM
on this exact day, in 2021....
the death toll from covid-19 in the USA will be "some number of millions"
it might be as low as 1+ million
or might be several times higher
depending on the date we begin national quarantine
and upon whether or not there is a covid resurgence again in September through December....
and whether new strains get developed and how lethal those are
please note that in general sars-covid has been becoming increasingly virulent
with both novel new major generation strains and more minor strains with no immunological overlap
I would expect MANY new strains of covid-19,
myself, I'd prefer to "get it" by Covid-21
cuz I like the sound of it more....

I know you guys don't believe me!
ya'll have that whole "proud 'ole redneck" vibe going on....

here's my bona fides.....

on March 30, there will be more than 500 per day dying in the USA
so please read this on March 31, and see if I am correct or not....

if I am, then a year from today, the deaths total will be at least a million + not sure how many more millions than that, because it depends on when we do a full shutdown quarantine of the entire USA!
and other factors

so, is this pretty Covid blossom a Perennial plant?
i.e. one that lives more than two years?
or does it bloom only once before withering
curious botanists will seek to inquire at "Uncle Krimster's Museum of MetaPhysics"

PS

once all of you realize the truth
your sphincters won't work any more...
they will go on on strike for higher pay, due to the more hazardous working conditions...
a$$h0les!!!
this IS WHY you must buy up ALL their toilette paper, every gawd damned sheet of it
NOW
then say "NAH-NAH" and drive around the walmart parking lot waving the TP out the window at them
then throw them a couple of sheets and watch em all dive after it and hit each other!!!!
and then the last guy holds up a few shredded pieces and starts crying... sad...

Apocalypse Rocks!!




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 16, 2020, 07:09:50 PM
Reckon it's all over for the EU in Europe now, too much bad debt in the EU and it's member nations and the whole lot will collapse. Many will probably vote to Chuck out the EU before then. Look for a resurgence of Mussolini's Fascist party in Italy and the Nazis in Germany.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 16, 2020, 07:14:29 PM
There is a 450 page CDC plan that lists steps leadership can take to help prevent such a breakdown and violence occurring.  Unfortunately much seems to have been ignored.

http://emergency.cdc.gov/cerc/ppt/cerc_2014edition_Copy.pdf

It does make for interesting reading.

Thanks.  I attempted reading, but gave up, barely making it thru the ToC and the Introduction.  I did notice much content on bioterrorism, which the COVID-19 episode parallels.  We may lack the terrorist, yet we have the terror.    Maybe later if in self-isolation.   ;)     
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 16, 2020, 07:47:46 PM
I doubt an efficient lockdown will be possible or generally heeded by the population in the US. 

Only if the level of fear increases to the point that most people are voluntarily self-isolating.


Quote
If the troops have to come out to enforce, violence is very likely to follow.

When I mentioned the military, I was thinking few would be enforcing anything, and certainly not on a wide-scale such as a lockdown.  Yet some concerned citizens are talking about calling up the National Guard. 

Our news had a story about Italian military supplementing labor at as factory manufacturing ventilators IIRC.  That seems unnecessary when we will have many unemployed workers from the hospitality and travel industry. 

Gov. Cuomo of New York called for the US Army Corps of Engineers to help expand hospital capacity. 


Quote
The virus is a national problem that needs national solutions and guidelines.  That's not happening with each state deciding for themselves and the administration and CDC only providing recommendations.

Federalism.   ;)   
 

The Federal, state and local officials share responsibility  for healthcare.  At first glance, it seems to mirror the same approach as law enforcement.   It is best that local health departments manned the frontline.  I cite two examples:  As of yesterday, West Virginia had  not yet reported its first COVID-19 case, and Feds would not know how to make a plan work in NYC.  The CDC  has already shown its imperfections with the lab testing.   


Quote
Looks like it will be well into next week before a good number of labs and equipment are set up. 

The plan is unfolding now.  It will inevitably experience some glitches.   For example, there is some talk that we do not  have  reagents for performing the lab analyses.  There is even some talk about a shortage of cotton swabs to collect a specimen from the individual.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 16, 2020, 08:05:59 PM
correcto mundo!
cuatro caballos

plague
famine or poverty
war
and a powerful ruler will expand his kingdom by conquering his neighbors....
film at 11!

tried a new synthetic designer drug of my own design tonight
while gripped in its warm cerebral caress
I tried to isolate in my mind
the concept of "oscillation"

a value of one polarity whose value begins at +V
then declines to zero
and then keeps declining past zero until it reaches -V
then slowly reverses direction to zero
and goes back up to +V, and so completes "one cycle"
and repeats

so anything that behaves like this
night and day
AC current
is an oscillator


ok, Christians out there reading this...
how does redemption work?

not what it is, but how?

how could someone transfer sins?
how is it "actually done"

what if a random person offered to accept God's judgement on humanity's behalf
like Jesus did
would it help any?
or just be an empty gesture

please let me know
with my sincere thanks
because I am not neurotypical
I completely lack the "moral faculty" to make this determination
and was hoping someone would explain it to me so I could understand
because I REALLY don't see how to do it?
unless it's one of those "you CAN if you believe you CAN" kinda things...
ideas?

OR, just leave it on God's hands to determine whether you can or cannot...
and just do it and see what happens


PS

absolute WORST PRANK in the whole world!!!!
mother nature is gonna play on humans about 50 million times this year!!!

here's how the prank works...
the flu infects a random human...
soon as he feels the first symptoms, he's gonna think its covid-19 and that he's gonna die
but HAHA it's just the flu

50 million times that will happen this winter in the USA
Scare Tactics

fear....
I can smell it whenever I go out at night and sniff the air...
its warm animal musk smell


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 16, 2020, 08:34:40 PM
Again it doesn't seem to be a conspiracy but the bodies aren't piling up.  My buddy a nurse says the hospital has put up a temporary triage area and are under emergency protocol already, so they must genuinely believe we are about to get slammed.  Clearly wall street investors are concerned.  Yet no big death counts. 

I popped into my little supermarket this evening basically as an observer, or tourist shopper, just to see the sights.  .  The rule at the door was "One in one out", so as one person exited, a person was allowed to enter.  When I came I was first in line, when I left there was about 5 people waiting in line to enter.  The shelves were emptier than yesterday, I didn't even see the dreaded 'alkaline water'. but zillions of bottles of coke and pepsi.  I guess the survivalist crowd is going on a health kick as a part of the survival plan.  I picked up a bunch of green bananas and a little jar of peanut butter, still no bread on the shelves. 

Fathertime!   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 16, 2020, 09:00:31 PM
Thanks.  I attempted reading, but gave up, barely making it thru the ToC and the Introduction.  I did notice much content on bioterrorism, which the COVID-19 episode parallels.  We may lack the terrorist, yet we have the terror.    Maybe later if in self-isolation.   ;)   

450 pages is hard to read. In events like 9/11 or WWII, there's no real way to know what is going to happen and which way it's going to go. There's no manual for it. Just got to react as events unfold. From January to the end of February, WHO advised against travel bans between nations. WHO probably followed manual guidelines. Many nations took their advice until they realized it was bad advice. Trump ignored their advice in January banning individuals from China. it worked because we discovered most of our infected came from Europe, not China.

Again it doesn't seem to be a conspiracy but the bodies aren't piling up.  My buddy a nurse says the hospital has put up a temporary triage area and are under emergency protocol already, so they must genuinely believe we are about to get slammed.  Clearly wall street investors are concerned.  Yet no big death counts. 


 America hasn't taken a hit because bodies aren't piling up but we take early action so we don't become the next Italy. If China was hit as hard as Italy, the world would've been alarmed earlier and taken more precautions. I'm sure China was hit as hard as Italy but not revealing the truth.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 16, 2020, 09:18:43 PM

 America hasn't taken a hit because bodies aren't piling up but we take early action so we don't become the next Italy. If China was hit as hard as Italy, the world would've been alarmed earlier and taken more precautions. I'm sure China was hit as hard as Italy but not revealing the truth.
to this point, China's numbers of infected and deaths, seem to be more indicative of the US reality rather than Italy's numbers. 
....we didn't take early action, before a day or two ago people were still in bars, casinos, events, etc etc...  Early action would have been a month ago. 

Fathertime!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 16, 2020, 09:24:48 PM
to this point, China's numbers of infected and deaths, seem to be more indicative of the US reality rather than Italy's numbers. 
....we didn't take early action, before a day or two ago people were still in bars, casinos, events, etc etc...  Early action would have been a month ago. 

Fathertime!

Trump enacted travel bans in January. Since it started in China, banning travel from another country wasn't an option. But they could've banned travel within their own nation. All through January preparing and celebrating Chinese New Year, China promoted travel and the city of Wuhan even passed out 200,000 free tickets to the city's New Year celebration. They promoted travel and encouraged large scale gatherings.

China had the virus longer than anybody by far. China has 23 times the population of Italy and encourage their people to congregate but when it's all said and done, Italy will have more dead. Do you believe it?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 16, 2020, 10:51:29 PM
Trench,

"I 'reckon', 'guess' and 'think' from the likes of you means more likely mean the opposite
will be true......

If individual states in the US and regions (Oblasts/ Krais) of Russia have different quarantine policies does that mean they will break up when things settle down, too?

Moscow had a different, more harsh regime than Piter for nearly a week...

Going by your 'logic' the end of the RF is nigh?.....




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 16, 2020, 11:40:03 PM
Reckon it's all over for the EU in Europe now, too much bad debt in the EU and it's member nations and the whole lot will collapse. Many will probably vote to Chuck out the EU before then. Look for a resurgence of Mussolini's Fascist party in Italy and the Nazis in Germany.

You would really love that.  Maybe you will be able to get a job watching over the prisoners so you can molest maim and rape with impunity. Jolly good fun eh?

You seem to be looking for the worst in us.  I wonder where your sick fantasy comes from.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 17, 2020, 12:00:29 AM
Thanks.  I attempted reading, but gave up, barely making it thru the ToC and the Introduction.  I did notice much content on bioterrorism, which the COVID-19 episode parallels.  We may lack the terrorist, yet we have the terror.    Maybe later if in self-isolation.   ;)   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 17, 2020, 12:19:42 AM
America hasn't taken a hit because bodies aren't piling up but we take early action so we don't become the next Italy.

You forgot 'Maybe' at the beginning of your sentence and 'yet' after aren't.

Although I sincerely hope the US is not hit as bad as Italy, it is still kinda early for proclamations.




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 17, 2020, 12:25:15 AM
You would really love that.  Maybe you will be able to get a job watching over the prisoners so you can molest maim and rape with impunity. Jolly good fun eh?

You seem to be looking for the worst in us.  I wonder where your sick fantasy comes from.

To tell the truth this virus really puts into perspective the stuff people had to live through back then, our grandparents etc. We as yet aren't even reaching a a fraction of the terrible things they had to endure. Starting from WWI, the trenches, loss of loved ones & rationing; then the bird flu pandemic at the end of the war and the loss of more loved ones; hyper-inflation in Germany; then the Great Depression globally, with unemployment, hard times, misery and going without; then WWII and the deaths of millions, many which would have been close family members.

So far this virus hasn't even come close to anything like those terrible times our ancestors had to live through. It could come close and we freak out at it yet we are still talking relatively low numbers of hundreds, of thousands, which are low in comparison to the millions living in Italy, Spain, etc.

On the TV last night I watched a report of Americans arming themselves. An article here on it:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-us-panic-buying-guns-ammo-nra-a9403886.html%3famp

Now I'm a little survivalist in nature myself but I wonder if all that gun buying is going a little too far and just threatens to cause a worse issue if it gets a little out of hand. I wouldn't say don't think about self defense and take some action, and if in America maybe a small firearm but I get the impression militias of gun nuts are forming over there that may just be a lot unnecessary trouble.

Here in the UK we are not yet in lockdown. Apparently in China that means you are not allowed out of the house not even for food shopping which instead is done my a neighborhood committee. Apparently now in Italy people are not allowed out of the house unless for serious business, does that include work?

This article is about Italians warning us Brits, etc of what is to come:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/11188184/italy-coronavirus-warning-worst-scenario-video/amp/

I get the impression that we could be in for more than some people bargained for and those that have stocked up won't regret it. It's not looking like something to look forward to but something to get over. In some ways I wish they would just get on with it and get it over & done. I think they are waiting to be in a bad enough way so as to not do a lockdown then have to do it again as a result of re-infection from elsewhere. So they are waiting for us, the US, etc to all be getting slightly higher numbers.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 17, 2020, 12:25:32 AM
450 pages is hard to read. In events like 9/11 or WWII, there's no real way to know what is going to happen and which way it's going to go. There's no manual for it. Just got to react as events unfold.

It is a manual on communications during times of crisis, not an operational plan.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 17, 2020, 12:27:04 AM
Trench,

"I 'reckon', 'guess' and 'think' from the likes of you more likely mean the opposite
will be true......

If individual states in the US and regions ?Oblasts/ Krais) of Russia have different quarantine policies does that mean they will break up when things settle down, too?

Moscow had a different, more harsh regime than Piter for nearly a week...

Going by your 'logic' the end of the RF is nigh?.....

How are you doing Moby, did you get a flight out to Thailand to see your wife?/Your wife get a flight out of Thailand?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 17, 2020, 12:37:55 AM
Apparently now in Italy people are not allowed out of the house unless for serious business, does that include work?

I guess you must not have read my reply to you earlier in this thread.  Yes, 'necessary business' includes going to work if teleworking is not possible, grocery shopping, for health-related needs like doctor and pharmacy visits and even taking your dog for a walk in the vicinity of your residence and for a short period of time.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 17, 2020, 01:00:26 AM
How are you doing Moby, did you get a flight out to Thailand to see your wife?/Your wife get a flight out of Thailand?

Wait and see ? ..

Was this 'response' in any way related to your, "the EU is finished" and my response .. ?

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 17, 2020, 02:30:37 AM

tried a new synthetic designer drug of my own design tonight
while gripped in its warm cerebral caress
I tried to isolate in my mind
the concept of "oscillation"

a value of one polarity whose value begins at +V
then declines to zero
and then keeps declining past zero until it reaches -V
then slowly reverses direction to zero
and goes back up to +V, and so completes "one cycle"
and repeats

so anything that behaves like this
night and day
AC current
is an oscillator


ok, Christians out there reading this...
how does redemption work?

not what it is, but how?

how could someone transfer sins?
how is it "actually done"

what if a random person offered to accept God's judgement on humanity's behalf
like Jesus did
would it help any?
or just be an empty gesture

please let me know
with my sincere thanks
because I am not neurotypical
I completely lack the "moral faculty" to make this determination
and was hoping someone would explain it to me so I could understand
because I REALLY don't see how to do it?
unless it's one of those "you CAN if you believe you CAN" kinda things...
ideas?

OR, just leave it on God's hands to determine whether you can or cannot...
and just do it and see what happens


First, you need to get an oscilloscope, that'll really blow your mind.

Second , oscillation requires time as a factor.  Concepts of sin can also 'oscillate' over time.  Take extramarital sex for example.  Cavemen didn't have 'marriage' that we know of (-) which likely came about later with beginning ideas of more formal religious thought (0) with recreational sex becoming mor 'sinlike' (+) and since the 60's swinging back down towards (0)

One can conclude then that the concept and context of 'redemption' is ever changing.

Wow!!!  All this thought possible without an artificial mind bending substance :) How can that be?

Guess that's why they call 'em 'pipe dreams' LOLO

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 17, 2020, 04:17:10 AM
  . China has 23 times the population of Italy and encourage their people to congregate but when it's all said and done, Italy will have more dead. Do you believe it?
At least at this Point I more or less believe both Italy and China's numbers. 

Trump enacted travel bans in January. Since it started in China, banning travel from another country wasn't an option. But they could've banned travel within their own nation.
The Virus reached our shores and has popped up practically everywhere.  There was likely no way to stop that from happening.  If this virus is as serious as stated, our response hasn't been fast enough.  It seems to me that by now there would be more actual deaths in the US given the number of people already infected.  Just yesterday i dealt with at least 9 senior citizens between 70-80 years old, so the 'stay at home routine is not being followed by many of the seniors.
Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 17, 2020, 04:18:29 AM
As far as testing, CDC and outside labs have reported about 25,000 tests, of which a few thousand received and being processed.

(http://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/images/lab-specimens-tested.jpg)

available at http://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/testing-in-us.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Ftesting-in-us.html

In comparison, Italy has processed as of yesterday around 140,000 tests.

What is interesting and very concerning at the same time:

Italy, 28,000 positives with 140,000 tests = ~20%

USA, 4,743 positives with 23,000 tests = ~20%



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 17, 2020, 06:02:13 AM
NHS Anaesthetist.

"I'm seeing under-40's with Coronavirus on ventilators"

Sky News report today.

Bit of a game-changer methinks.

Might explain why Governments have become panic-stricken this past few days.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 17, 2020, 06:07:30 AM
You forgot 'Maybe' at the beginning of your sentence and 'yet' after aren't.

Although I sincerely hope the US is not hit as bad as Italy, it is still kinda early for proclamations.

Although we are weeks behind Italy in test kits, our human bodies react to the virus are the same. We would be seeing overloads in our hospitals right now from people being sick if we were as bad off as Italy. It's not happening.


What is interesting and very concerning at the same time:

Italy, 28,000 positives with 140,000 tests = ~20%

USA, 4,743 positives with 23,000 tests = ~20%


Where did you get the USA numbers from? Article below at the bottom says 12,486 tested in King County, 11.582 were negative which equals a total of 7.2% being positive for the worst hit county in America while Italy is registering 20% positive nationwide.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/904-coronavirus-cases-in-washington-6-more-dead-in-king-county/ar-BB11hjlM
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 17, 2020, 06:25:29 AM
D


You remind me of the Soviet judges in the 1980s for Olympic skating events.  :D

As you say, these criteria are for communication.   I agree that communication from Trump himself has not been an "A."   His communication IMO seems more like his usual B or C range.   People who abhor Trump will give him less.  People who like Trump will give him an A. 

The critical point is that Trump has delegated communication.   It seems that 90+% of the TV communication comes from health professionals. Pence communicates more than Trump.   

More important than communication in judging Trump's response are his actions, namely Trump's executive directives.  In my county of 1.4 million, we have 5 tested cases of COVID-19 infection (ages 17-49).   4 of those are related to international travel.  Americans like Italians don't eat bats and armadillos, so without Trump's early decision to prevent travel, we would be in worse straits today.   The wave is coming, and hopefully we can learn from Italy, South Korea, China, et al about what to do and what not to do. And most of what needs to be done is the responsibility of the individual citizens.   All of us, government, corporations, businesses, organizations, and citizens are in the same boat and all have a part to do.
   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Brillynt on March 17, 2020, 06:30:32 AM

On the TV last night I watched a report of Americans arming themselves. An article here on it:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-us-panic-buying-guns-ammo-nra-a9403886.html%3famp


What is funny Trench is it is mostly the people who claim to hate guns that are now deciding hmmm, I need to be able to protect myself.  Lots of people trying to buy guns online are finding out that they cant be shipped across state lines direct to the buyer like all the media has lied about in the past.  I am finding this very humorous to put it mildly.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 17, 2020, 08:30:22 AM
Where did you get the USA numbers from?

CDC - the US authority in disease control.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 17, 2020, 08:33:39 AM
Holy Molly! The progression of this thread is as robust, if not as rabid as the current contagion. Thank goodness for the internet. Otherwise we'd be infecting each other...if we haven't already done so.

So going back to the economic impact of coronavirus, and the fall of the global market, I listened to The Daily podcast and it captured my sentiment that while I understood the intent behind the central bank's move to lower the interest rate, I had a feeling that it'll just make things worst. I'm not an economist by profession. Far from it. But I understand it enough to realize the current economic tide we're on is NOT a financial crisis. I just didn't believe lowering interest rates was the right move.


The Fed's move is unprecedented.  Supposedly the financial markets were not functioning correctly with red lights flashing.  That is another way of saying there were not enough  buyers even at reduced prices. 

Many experts agree with you and are questioning the Fed's move.  We entered this viral crisis in a great position, having more cushion than the central banks of Europe., having an economy more robust than Europe's.   That cushion we had is greatly diminished...

Yes. Trump gave our country the economy that cushioned this current fall. We'd be in worst shape entering our cycle through this viral mess had the US economy not been in as great a shape because of Trump. The supply/demand principle of economics is being driven by forces other than money, yet, we were in a position to absorb the assault for now.

I urge you to listen to The Daily's Peter Goodman podcast (12 minutes long) and a good understanding how and why this virus, despite its relative 'less lethal' effect than its predecessors (SARS. H1N1, MERS, etc) is driving our world and all our consciousness into financial nightmare. A pending global recession differently than traditional causes.

Peter Goodman, The Daily Podcast (http://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/podcasts/the-daily/coronavirus-recession.html?rref=vanity)

Quote
Government is trying to "flatten the curve" of infections in regard to preparing for the demands placed on our healthcare systems.  Some people claim such measures as closing commercial establishments, schools, etc.  are too early.  The response:   better safe now than sorry later.

Every required action taken to combat and control this virus directed by the authorities are extremely vital. These actions need to be followed if we aim to control this epidemic. The irony is, every action required to accomplish this require that we decimate our financial state first. 

Quote
The Fed's move could be in the same spirit.

I agree. The traditional action the feds take in response any economic recession unfortunately is of little use in our current situation. If anything, like their decision to lower interest rates, proved to be the worst thing that can happen. It bloodied the global market.

But at the same time, the proposed $850 billion stimulus package Sec. Mnuchin is currently working on seem to be the appropriate steps to take now to prepare our economy to what is about to happen.
 
Quote
It seems so bizarre to see commercial business shutter.  We are a consumer economy, now with less  money for consuming.   It is temporary, yet the extent is too broad to give feelings of optimism.  We will survive.  We will prevail.  And then we will thrive.

Therein lies the point discussed in the podcast. Consumer spending is 70% of our GDP. Because of what is required of us to control this virus, we are faced of doing pretty much everything to stop what facilitate 'spending'.

Quote
However, it will not be  a "V" recovery.

I'd disagree if we succeed in controlling this virus relatively 'soon'. Our fate, survival and financial, literally is in 'our hands'.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 17, 2020, 09:05:38 AM
I wonder if it is easier as an individual to not bother with all the measures and if you aren't affected by the virus contagion if you get it then all very well if not then so be it.

I just wonder if we are all trying to run from the inevitable and it's all dragging it out a lot more than it would otherwise be.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 17, 2020, 09:16:34 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OyBtMPqpNY

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 17, 2020, 09:29:14 AM

So going back to the economic impact of coronavirus, and the fall of the global market, I listened to The Daily podcast and it captured my sentiment that while I understood the intent behind the central bank's move to lower the interest rate, I had a feeling that it'll just make things worst. I'm not an economist by profession. Far from it. But I understand it enough to realize the current economic tide we're on is NOT a financial crisis. I just didn't believe lowering interest rates was the right move.


Yes. Trump gave our country the economy that cushioned this current fall. We'd be in worst shape entering our cycle through this viral mess had the US economy not been in as great a shape because of Trump. The supply/demand principle of economics is being driven by forces other than money, yet, we were in a position to absorb the assault for now.

well the interest rate move certainly seemed to backfire for the day, down 3000 points...yet it seems like it was still something that was ok to do.  850 billion in stimulus coming up seems ok as well, depending on where/who exactly it goes to
..in the end, assuming the crisis ebbs, trump will be associated with winning, people will be in a good party mood,  and he will be reelected...although oddsmakers are lowering his chances at the moment.   

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 17, 2020, 10:19:10 AM
well the interest rate move certainly seemed to backfire for the day, down 3000 points...yet it seems like it was still something that was ok to do.  850 billion in stimulus coming up seems ok as well, depending on where/who exactly it goes to...

In a word, it's 'bailout'. For the entertainment industry, small businesses, for individuals that are financially impacted by the public health directives. Again, we are in a position, because of the economy we had under Trump, that's giving us the option and resource to right our state if and when this crisis find its end. We will all play and determine exactly what our ultimate fate will be if we do not heed the calling of our health care professionals. The federal government is trying to cover our backs financially, but that has it's limit in this battle.

Quote
..in the end, assuming the crisis ebbs, trump will be associated with winning, people will be in a good party mood,  and he will be reelected...although oddsmakers are lowering his chances at the moment.

This President had done unprecedented things that are often times criticize, but seem to always find its way to counter these criticism. Closing borders is one. Organizing a force team to drive what the country needs right now is another. The daily presser, etc..to coin a phrase...*he is better than most*   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 17, 2020, 10:20:53 AM
see here, Trench my lad,
snap out of it!!!

the longer you survive compared to the other guys
the greater your Pooty Tang Potential (PTP) is gonna be...
cuz you're the one still breathin....
and as bad as you're probably gonna smell
it'll still be a whole lot better than the guys who aren't breathin....

Page 1 of Krimster's Post Apocalyptic Guide to Dating

yes, Trench even at a time like this you must consider
that man does not live by bread alone...

so Trench, are there any, well, you know...
attractive young single ladies in your area...
but you currently feel they are "out of your league"?
any....

if so, I'd start with them first...
then just move move down the scale until you get to the grandmothers...

for grandmothers, when they run out of food, I'd offer them 2 cans of spaghetti for a HJ, but they have to call you "a bad boy" when they do it!
hope these suggestions inspire you to see the opportunities that always exist, even though they may be hidden from your view
use your imagination to see with instead
let it shine me bruv
before you die, you must first live...

It is much easier to judge another...
than to judge your self...
or even weigh your own judgment of another

whatever can be removed
is not essential

triggering certain receptors in my brain
allowed me to SEE that an oscillator was just a pendulum

time, did not CAUSE the oscillation
but the forces that DID cause the oscillation
will determine the frequency of the oscillation
in gorgeous colors
with the smell of flowers and early spring...
and my grandmother's freshly baked carrot cake

too much "I dream of Jeannie" re-runs in "Das Bunker"
i mean WTF, Cpt Nelson didn't hit on her????

WTF??? are you serious?
did you guys ever freakin see episode #1, she was HOT!!!




 

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 17, 2020, 10:37:27 AM
It is now become popular among the countries that have a beef with the US to make the claim that the US started the Corona Virus and planted it in China.   Such was claimed yesterday by a foreign ministry spokesman for China.   In Iran, the television reports that the disease was created in the United States and disseminated by Israel.   And on RT one of the talking heads claims that the advance of the disease was fostered by the US government.

In each of the situations, it appears that the governments spouting this seem to need a common enemy to project animus to in order to divert attention to their government's failure to control the disease.   

I wonder what they will say if it hits Venezuela?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 17, 2020, 10:51:02 AM
the virus causes the depression
depression causes the war

everyone's looking for slogans now
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 17, 2020, 10:59:31 AM
In Iran, the television reports that the disease was created in the United States and disseminated by Israel.   

Chatted with my friend in Iran yesterday who didn't mention it.  Guess being polite, but was happy he took the time to call.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 17, 2020, 11:15:41 AM
It is now become popular among the countries that have a beef with the US to make the claim that the US started the Corona Virus and planted it in China.   Such was claimed yesterday by a foreign ministry spokesman for China.   In Iran, the television reports that the disease was created in the United States and disseminated by Israel.   And on RT one of the talking heads claims that the advance of the disease was fostered by the US government.

In each of the situations, it appears that the governments spouting this seem to need a common enemy to project animus to in order to divert attention to their government's failure to control the disease.   

I wonder what they will say if it hits Venezuela?

Old news, jone. Didn't you know? Trump sent Rudy Giuliani to plant the virus. They showed the video proof on CNN a month ago.

Additionally, they have sworn statement from someone who heard it from someone else, who was told by someone's cousin. I think both Manafort and Carter Page was in on it, too with assistance for Gen Flynn. Brian Williams of MSNBC saw the whole thing.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 17, 2020, 12:48:24 PM
you don't need to wait for death
he will kindly wait for you
he does not need to know the time
he gets there whenever he gets there

the rabbits sense when the wolf approaches in the dark
something brings fear to them
even though they see nothing
they are afraid

deep in the heart of the dream, struggling for breath
letting unwind the mortal coil






Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 17, 2020, 12:48:48 PM
It is now become popular among the countries that have a beef with the US to make the claim that the US started the Corona Virus and planted it in China. 

Russia has blamed the UK (on Russia's The Great Game), and the US.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51413870 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51413870)

Singing to keep up spirits in Siena -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KeXsIMouv0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KeXsIMouv0)


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 17, 2020, 02:14:49 PM
listen, I have been telling you all the truth!!!!!

millions!!!!!

http://tinyurl.com/qwqaq33

BO, can you get into a sparsely populated region north of the 30th parallel, Alberta or some place if so, go!!!
i don't know the Canadian numbers
USA's are going up like a rocket
it really is the end of us

and it really is gonna be millions, question is only how MANY millions...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 17, 2020, 03:00:56 PM
Old news, jone. Didn't you know? Trump sent Rudy Giuliani to plant the virus. They showed the video proof on CNN a month ago.

Evidently to conceal the conspiracy, Rudy also planted the virus in selected American regions.  Rudy selected the blue states of Washington, New York and California, but only the most liberal locales.

The COVID outbreak is so serious that I have heard no jokes.  That is, until today.  After golf, one  alarmed man mentioned that COVID has caused deaths over the state.  Another man asked how many?  The alarmed man said "5."  The other man replied, "Jeffrey Dahmer ate more than that."  Few laughed.         
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 17, 2020, 06:14:28 PM
CDC - the US authority in disease control.

I googled the numbers you cited and CDC and can't find anything on it. Chinese travelled outside of China and infected many countries at near the same time. Our hospitals should be full like Italy's but they aren't. One big difference is Trump banned Chinese and those who were in China from entering our country in January. Probably why we aren't going to be hit hard like European nations which currently are. Trump didn't listen to WHO( the authority and experts) recommendation travel restrictions and bans between nations are not necessary.

I urge you to listen to The Daily's Peter Goodman podcast (12 minutes long) and a good understanding how and why this virus, despite its relative 'less lethal' effect than its predecessors (SARS. H1N1, MERS, etc) is driving our world and all our consciousness into financial nightmare. A pending global recession differently than traditional causes.


If Peter thinks COVID-19 is less lethal than SARS, MERS, and H1N1(Swine Flu), he doesn't know what he's talking about. I prefer the 3 pandemics/epidemics to hit us at the same time than COVID-19. SARS and MERS are coronaviruses and humans had to fight them for around 8 years. COVID-19 been on earth a few months and killed more people than both those coronaviruses combined. It doesn't sound less lethal to me. Swine Flu lasted a couple of years and killed a lot but like all flus, vaccines and viral medicines can be quickly found. COVID-19 behavior is very dangerous. When people got the other coronaviruses, they quickly got sick, stayed home or a doctor figured out what they got quickly so they were less likely to infect others. With COVID-19, a person can go 14 days without symptoms and without a reason to stay home or visit a doctor, they can go around and infect others not knowing they are sick.

There was no level 5 pandemic in the last 100 years. The 1918 Spanish Flu was a level 5 pandemic but a vaccine was found for it. COVID-19 is a level 5 pandemic and it's very likely, no vaccine will ever be found. COVID-19 so far has a mortality rate similar to the Spanish Flu and without a cure. It's bad news multiplied by bad news. We may have to live with COVID-19 forever. We need to get this virus out of the human body. That is why you see the actions governments are taking. If we lose this fight and allow this virus to live side by side with us like the common cold, you will see economies shattered, life expectancy severely decreased, and quarantines as a normal part of life every time there is an outbreak. Humanity will go into a decline. How far? Let's hope we don't learn the answer to that.


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 17, 2020, 06:22:13 PM
listen, I have been telling you all the truth!!!!!

millions!!!!!

http://tinyurl.com/qwqaq33 (http://tinyurl.com/qwqaq33)

BO, can you get into a sparsely populated region north of the 30th parallel, Alberta or some place if so, go!!!
i don't know the Canadian numbers
USA's are going up like a rocket
it really is the end of us

and it really is gonna be millions, question is only how MANY millions...

I assume you mean latitudes? 

Alberta's northern border is on the 60th parallel, its southern border is the 49th parallel.  If you meant far north, I don't know if that would make too much difference.  There have now been cases reported in all Alberta's health regions, including the north region, which only has a population of 440,000.  Here, COVID-19 has hit almost every age group, from 0-4 to 70-79.   The only age group not hit is 80 years and older.  There are still less than 100 cases, but the number is doubling every day.  Five of those individuals have been hospitalized, 2 are in ICU.  Six cases are non travel related, all individuals having contracted the illness at a gathering in a home, from a patient who had recently returned from out of country.  All other cases are travel related.

Today, six provinces have declared a state of emergency.  In my province, all surgeries have been cancelled, all public gatherings of over 50 people have been banned, restaurants are supposed to move to take out only, schools are closed (though teachers and staff are still working), universities have moved to online course work only, and a lot of people are working from home.  I had to go out today, and I breezed home during rush hour traffic, there was virtually no traffic, less than on a typical day at 10 a.m. or 10 p.m.  The reason for all of this is because virtually all our healthcare is fully government operated and funded.  That means that if a pandemic hits the population, hospitals would be completely overwhelmed.  So, the intention is to flatten the curve of the disease.

I stopped to buy pork chops for our son's dinner.  None at the first grocery store I went to (not in my neighbourhood, but where I had an appointment), but there were still some at my local grocer (same chain).  The store I visited first was near the university, and it had no chicken or pork, some beef (it's pricier), and also didn't have a lot of good produce.  My local grocer had a full variety of produce.  I even picked up kale to make the better half a brussels sprout/kale salad. 

All the junk food was on sale - chips, chocolate bars, cookies - just the healthy foods required if you're coughing your lungs out.  That was the same at Safeway.  I'm not certain why, I assume they're clearing out for new stock, but it was moving.  I can't say the same about the kale - three types available, full racks. ;D

Still no soap, but the local grocer did have toilet paper, with a limit on how many packages could be purchased.

I heard on my drive home that China was basically shut down for eight weeks, and life there is now resuming to normal.  I also heard that Taiwan has been very successful at stopping the spread of COVID-19 through an aggressive campaign of tracking and isolating travellers.

In my own case, I'm not concerned.  It's not likely I will get COVID-19, and if I do, it's not likely I will die.  However, if I die, I die.  I'm not afraid of death and frankly, it's more likely to arrive at the hands of the maniacs on our roads.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 17, 2020, 07:22:05 PM
latitudes, yes....

please read this

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3074970/coronavirus-becomes-pandemic-scientists-ask-if-lines-map-hold

I haven't followed this too closely because it doesn't pertain to my situation, but does to yours
in terms of possibly having a favorable latitude...
might be worth investigating in your spare time

based on the numbers, I see two things
first thing...
18 year olds and under have much HIGHER resistance than someone your age BO...
you can both be standing next to each other in line at the Molsen's store buying some beer, eh
and the 18 year old won't be so easily infected as you...
if not already, then soon you need to have a young person be your shopper and NOT you!!!

also, if they do get it, much less severe symptoms than you...
as long as someone supplies them with food, they will be back on their feet in 2 weeks
and they will then be immune to 1 strain!

the slope on the American rate of new infection, means we are now today just entering the exponential phase
it's going up like a FREAKIN ROCKET now...

it cannot possibly be more than a few days before we do a nationwide quarantine like Italy...
I would expect it no later than the end of this week

then with so many at home instead of at work, there will be a massive run on all the stores...
while production and supply will be slowing and then stopping

by next week, stores will have a more restrictive shopping policy
and there will be long lines

only a certain number of customers allowed in at a time and you must be sprayed
then the store guard stops the line
and when one customer leaves
he then allows a new one in
so the line just crawls...
hours for just a few items

they will start restricting the number of items you can buy at a time, 3-2- and then 1...
and then the store is only open 3 days per week, and the lines are even longer...

and after that, human scavengers and predators start appearing...
some of whom ran out of food and money and have kids to feed...
while others are just plain evil bastards

at some point in the next month, the military will show up here in my area
to setup at least one supervised field hospital and food distribution point...

to cope, my youngest daughter is keeping a journal like Anne Frank
a diary of her life in hiding
from the evil encroaching upon Amsterdam
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 17, 2020, 08:32:15 PM
Some observations from today.    It seems the people in LA are falling into to camps.  Unfortunately I'm running into the camp that is disregarding all the warnings, myself included.  Because of this, I'm considering closing down shop until this virus is taken more seriously by more people.  I had numerous people get way too close to me, and try to shake my hand.  If anything personal space was reduced, and I'm losing my comfort with that at the moment. 

Most of the old people I work around are still showing up to work 3 out of the 4 at least.  Overall the noose seems to be tightening though.  I went out to get some fast food after work at Panda, (So as to not deplete my supply at home) but it was closed, and I noticed almost all fast food places were closed except for drive thru.  I decided to hit walmart and see if there were any scraps there for me, the shelves were near barren for real this time.  I did manage to get some canned peaches, a loaf of organic bread, a block of xtra sharp cheese and 5 bottles of 'Smart water'   which was the max.

Went to visit my dad in the nursing home, from outside I could see his curtains were drawn and room was dark.   I knocked on the main entrance which normally one of the attendants will either open or at least greet guests through the door...this time crickets.  It seems the attendants were all gone and the ship is running without a captain.   

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 17, 2020, 08:41:25 PM
Although we are weeks behind Italy in test kits, our human bodies react to the virus are the same. We would be seeing overloads in our hospitals right now from people being sick if we were as bad off as Italy. It's not happening.

No bodies piling up just yet but it is very early and we sure don't seem to be helping ourselves.   Due to 'rugged individualism' here in the US many people disregard warnings.  It seems that shortly we will find out how well our medical system can handle what seems to be coming. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 17, 2020, 08:46:38 PM
Billy,

      Without me going through the whole thread why do you assume no vaccine will be found for Corona virus ?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 17, 2020, 09:28:32 PM
latitudes, yes....

please read this

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3074970/coronavirus-becomes-pandemic-scientists-ask-if-lines-map-hold (http://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3074970/coronavirus-becomes-pandemic-scientists-ask-if-lines-map-hold)

I haven't followed this too closely because it doesn't pertain to my situation, but does to yours
in terms of possibly having a favorable latitude...
might be worth investigating in your spare time

based on the numbers, I see two things
first thing...
18 year olds and under have much HIGHER resistance than someone your age BO...
you can both be standing next to each other in line at the Molsen's store buying some beer, eh
and the 18 year old won't be so easily infected as you...
if not already, then soon you need to have a young person be your shopper and NOT you!!!

also, if they do get it, much less severe symptoms than you...
as long as someone supplies them with food, they will be back on their feet in 2 weeks
and they will then be immune to 1 strain!

the slope on the American rate of new infection, means we are now today just entering the exponential phase
it's going up like a FREAKIN ROCKET now...

it cannot possibly be more than a few days before we do a nationwide quarantine like Italy...
I would expect it no later than the end of this week

then with so many at home instead of at work, there will be a massive run on all the stores...
while production and supply will be slowing and then stopping

by next week, stores will have a more restrictive shopping policy
and there will be long lines

only a certain number of customers allowed in at a time and you must be sprayed
then the store guard stops the line
and when one customer leaves
he then allows a new one in
so the line just crawls...
hours for just a few items

they will start restricting the number of items you can buy at a time, 3-2- and then 1...
and then the store is only open 3 days per week, and the lines are even longer...

and after that, human scavengers and predators start appearing...
some of whom ran out of food and money and have kids to feed...
while others are just plain evil bastards

at some point in the next month, the military will show up here in my area
to setup at least one supervised field hospital and food distribution point...

to cope, my youngest daughter is keeping a journal like Anne Frank
a diary of her life in hiding
from the evil encroaching upon Amsterdam

Both my province’s major cities are above the 50th parallel.

There are no Molson’s stores, and I don’t drink beer. 😀. Our boys do, but primarily local craft beers.

I understand I have a greater risk of dying than an 18 year old, but I’m still not worried.

Stores here are setting up shopping between 6 am and 8:30 am for seniors, but I’m not a senior.

We have enough food to last at least a month without leaving the house, as I buy things like tuna, canned sockeye salmon, beans, rice, and pasta (De Cecco-we’re not uncivilized) in bulk on sale. I buy canned fish for a year at a time, as it only goes on sale once a year, I have the space to store it, and I’m too Ukrainian to not take advantage of saving $5.00 per package of fish. The only thing I’d miss if I couldn’t go out or I couldn’t buy are fruits and vegetables.

If there really are food shortages, I will buy a couple bags of flour, butter, potatoes, sauerkraut, and onions. I’ll then make and freeze two months worth of pyrohy.

Hubby is an expert marksman (in the entire Northern Fleet, only one Chukcha was a better shot), and my father has rifles and ammunition. There is a lot of game in the city and just outside (can’t shoot within city limits, obviously).  Hubby is also an expert fisherman.  I doubt, though, that things will deteriorate to that degree.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 17, 2020, 09:50:02 PM
to cope, my youngest daughter is keeping a journal like Anne Frank
a diary of her life in hiding


Tell your daughter during times of crisis, it doesn't end well for those who keep a diary.

from the evil encroaching upon Amsterdam


Evil is coming but it isn't from Amsterdam. Governments are scaring and quarantining people after they released a biological weapon. Governments will announce a vaccine to be given at all arenas and stadiums around the world. First come, first serve. We rush to get the vaccine like we do toilet paper. Humans will be herded like cattle and locked up. Aliens will come down to earth and collect half the humans on earth. Children and women are priority since they are tasty and can reproduce to supply the aliens with a continuous source of food. That is why the virus is designed to kill old people and men. Aliens don't want us. What do government officials get out of this? A lifetime supply of toilet paper.

Billy,

      Without me going through the whole thread why do you assume no vaccine will be found for Corona virus ?

I don't assume. I know history and history shown there is no vaccine for cold viruses after a 100 years of trying. Coronaviruses can cause the common cold, MERS and SARS. COVID-19 is another coronavirus related to cold coronaviruses. Here's what I posted previously.....


SARS came out in 2002. It is a coronavirus which is related to the cold virus. It's been 18 years and there is no vaccine or antiviral medicine on earth. Our best and brightest minds have failed to find anything so the only thing available is supportive care. Your immune system is the only defense against the virus.

http://middlesexhealth.org/learning-center/definitions/severe-acute-respiratory-syndrome

MERS came out in 2012. It is also a coronavirus. It's been 8 years and no antiviral medicine or vaccine has ever been made. Your immunity system is the only defense.

http://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/middle-east-respiratory-syndrome-coronavirus-(mers-cov)

COVID-19 is worse than those two. Bill Gates, who has lots of experience fighting epidemics, said COVID-19 behaves like the once in a century virus we've always worried about. Do not expect a cure or treatment to be ever invented.


So I hope everybody understands why governments are taking the actions they've been taking. They can't tell the full truth because it will cause panic. The media can't even tell the full truth to cause panic because they aren't given enough information. Media in turn reports on possible vaccine to be discovered and low death rate but they are wrong. When governments say self isolate, take their advice. Don't be a victim. There will be routine outbreaks in our regions for as long as COVID-19 is in somebody's body and with outbreaks come lock downs. Bill Gates recently retired from the Microsoft board. He's going to focus on philanthropy. My guess is he's going to dedicate fighting COVID-19 full time.

Understanding these things and understanding China's reports are lies have led me to stock up on food. I've never done that before with past pandemics. I didn't even post about other pandemics  in the past on the forum because they didn't worry me. If Noah asked me to get on his ark telling a story a dangerous virus that can threaten humanity is here on earth, I would do so for this virus. I'm prepared. I don't need to panic shop. I'm not an expert in virology, epidemics or vaccines but I know history and most of the reporting educating us about this virus is BS.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 17, 2020, 10:00:30 PM
The doom and gloom from every angle is seriously deafening. Assume for just a moment that there is no pandemic. Assume there is another wave of flu moving across the globe that is infectious and will kill people. Assume that it is no different than the influenza we experience yearly. There is no anti-virus for this one yet. There was no anti virus for all previous viruses either. Why is this perspective being totally ignored?

With that said,  something is afoot. Somebody wants you scared. When you number is up guess what? You'll fail to exist. Is it the flu or you get hit by a truck you'll still be dead. The fear being instilled in you will be the culprit or lead to your death. It's fear that is being pumped into your psyche 24/7. Most of you guys only compound it. You should all be questioning why?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 17, 2020, 10:11:52 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdK5umst12o

this will explain why it is all a hoax to end the economy to defeat Trump
so OF COURSE you in particular should PAY NO ATTENTION TO IT!!!

but only YOU, OK?

and for goodness sake DO NOT GO OUT and buy toilette paper!
don't fall for that!


BO, I don't think a month is enough for you!!!!
unfortunately, I do not know the numbers in your area

but I do for USA as a whole country

our peak will be between end of May and end of July
you need to find out when your peak is

you sure don't want to be out shopping then!

the more you do now, the safer it is
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 17, 2020, 10:46:48 PM
The doom and gloom from every angle is seriously deafening. Assume for just a moment that there is no pandemic. Assume there is another wave of flu moving across the globe that is infectious and will kill people. Assume that it is no different than the influenza we experience yearly. There is no anti-virus for this one yet. There was no anti virus for all previous viruses either. Why is this perspective being totally ignored?


They can't afford to assume. They have an idea how deadly this virus is, how fast it spreads, and know we can't afford to live with it forever. First they say no group gathering over 250. Then no group gatherings over 50. Now it's no group gathering over 10. The rules are changing fast, real fast. I know someone who knows a TSA agent at the airport. They are now talking about preparing for the next step. No work and everybody self isolate at home. Article below gives a idea about predictions made by experts that our government officials get to read. If America and Briton does nothing, over 2 million Americans will be dead and over half a million Britons will be dead during the outbreak. Of course there will be more future outbreaks if a cure isn't found. Experts provided models to show reduced deaths by limiting group size and self isolation.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-chilling-scientific-paper-helped-upend-us-and-uk-coronavirus-strategies/ar-BB11jVNP?ocid=spartanntp

Nevada orders shutdown of all non essential businesses and all casinos. Tourism accounts for 40% of Nevada's economy. The whole state is closed for business and tourism.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/breaking-sisolak-announces-statewide-shutdown-of-nonessential-businesses-casinos/ar-BB11kEx1?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 17, 2020, 11:06:32 PM
The doom and gloom from every angle is seriously deafening. Assume for just a moment that there is no pandemic. Assume there is another wave of flu moving across the globe that is infectious and will kill people. Assume that it is no different than the influenza we experience yearly. There is no anti-virus for this one yet. There was no anti virus for all previous viruses either. Why is this perspective being totally ignored?

With that said,  something is afoot. Somebody wants you scared. When you number is up guess what? You'll fail to exist. Is it the flu or you get hit by a truck you'll still be dead. The fear being instilled in you will be the culprit or lead to your death. It's fear that is being pumped into your psyche 24/7. Most of you guys only compound it. You should all be questioning why?

As pointed to previously, the issue is not Coronavirus itself, but rather, that pandemics at their peak mean not every patient can be treated.  We know when to expect the flu, and we know the mortality rate (a fraction of the COVID-19 rate, to date).

Unlike in China, in the West, hospitals can't be built in 10 days.

I don't believe the fear is being created.  I think it's just the way people interpret things.  And then, when others see the panic buying, or read or hear media reports of shortages, that sends them into panic mode. 

I believe in my area, the shortages of meat are caused by people anticipating they will have to stay home and cook, rather than go out to eat.  I've seen people purchasing 3 year supplies of rice (which I doubt will be in short supply).  I think this, too, is in anticipation of being confined at home, though why they buy so much is a mystery to me (it's not on sale, and will likely get bugs before it's all consumed).

Oh, and a vaccine was developed for SARS.  It took almost 2 years, but has not been tested on humans.   Like most viruses, though, SARS mutates. So, just like the flu vaccine, it's a hit and miss as to whether any vaccine will treat a specific virus, or a related, but mutated virus.  However, receiving shots increases immunity over time.  A possible vaccine for COVID-19 has already been tested on human subjects.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 17, 2020, 11:18:27 PM
Unlike in China, in the West, hospitals can't be built in 10 days.


I watched a time lapse video of them doing the hospital. It's doable. If America is in a crisis, we'd throw the rule books out the window and build as fast as we could too. In WWII, America made 3 Liberty ships every two days for the war effort. Mostly built for cargo but can transport up to 550 troops plus crew. China built a hospital in 10 days for 1500 people. In two days America could build 3 Liberty ships and turn them into a hospital for over 1500 people. Just throw mass people on the task.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_ship
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 18, 2020, 12:44:00 AM
If Peter thinks COVID-19 is less lethal than SARS, MERS, and H1N1(Swine Flu), he doesn't know what he's talking about.

LMAO! Actually you obviously didn’t listen to the podcast because based on your post it’s evident you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Anyway, I stopped by Costco to pick up a couple of items today. Bad idea. I am not keen to the idea of having everyone line up and be admitted in one at a time. Totally counter to the whole social distance directive. You can only take one of any item. I thought I’d pick up 3 or 4 lamb chops, but it’s all gone. Got my avocados, blueberries, Cornish game hen and rib eyes. We always prefer Whole Foods’ vegetables if not at the farmers market.

The one thing I like about life these days is the freeways are wide open. I’m sure this is largely because all the school is out.

We’re in the midst of a late winter rain storm. Forecast looks like we have at least another week of this. Most of the projects are shutdown with a couple that are still going. SOFI stadium never stopped although it’s mostly slow going with some BMP work. July is coming up fast so all these events, rain and covid-19 are untimely. It’ll be disappointing trying to meet deadline only to miss the opening of the stadium if were still in the coronavirus guidelines.

Sad to be missing some great skiing with all the new powder. Wifey got her new snowboard and hadn’t seen action so far this year. Not looking great that to happen at all this year now.

Ironically enough, and not sure why we did, we watched Contagion on VUDU this evening. The movie was released 2011, but so many things in the movie resembles a lot of the terms being used today.

I’m thinking of refinancing our rentals and take advantage of the lower rates and switch them to 15 year loans.

We’re we are, people seem to observe what’s being ask of them. First time I’ve seen Sta Monica pier closed. I grew up in the city and never seen this happen. Restaurants are all take out only. I receive a whole bunch of emails from places we frequent to offering discounts to order meals for take out or delivery. I’m curious to see how the next 14 days compares to the last month since we banned travel from China.

Flatten the curve my fellow Americans.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 18, 2020, 02:34:44 AM
The doom and gloom from every angle is seriously deafening. Assume for just a moment that there is no pandemic. Assume there is another wave of flu moving across the globe that is infectious and will kill people. Assume that it is no different than the influenza we experience yearly. There is no anti-virus for this one yet. There was no anti virus for all previous viruses either. Why is this perspective being totally ignored?

With that said,  something is afoot. Somebody wants you scared. When you number is up guess what? You'll fail to exist. Is it the flu or you get hit by a truck you'll still be dead. The fear being instilled in you will be the culprit or lead to your death. It's fear that is being pumped into your psyche 24/7. Most of you guys only compound it. You should all be questioning why?
Let's go with your school of thought for a moment.  The US was due for a great financial fall, Trump said it was a great big nasty bubble.  If this were the case, the virus would be the excuse, and trump would come out smelling like a rose for defeating it, aside from the many dead.  I'm having a hard time believing this, although at this moment I wouldn't take anything off the table.

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 18, 2020, 02:43:28 AM
I googled the numbers you cited and CDC and can't find anything on it. Chinese travelled outside of China and infected many countries at near the same time. Our hospitals should be full like Italy's but they aren't. One big difference is Trump banned Chinese and those who were in China from entering our country in January. Probably why we aren't going to be hit hard like European nations which currently are. Trump didn't listen to WHO( the authority and experts) recommendation travel restrictions and bans between nations are not necessary.

Billy,

My sources and links were mentioned.

I really do wish I could be as optimistic as you about how it is going in the US.  The closure of flights from China obviously did not work, the virus is there and all over the place.  To what extent, no one knows as testing is still quite sparse and limited in some places only to those with symptoms who either travelled to a high-risk country or known to have been in contact with someone who has tested positive.  Just now are they starting to allow folks that have symptoms AND flu tests were negative to be tested.

In any case, I would not claim victory just yet as we in the US are somewhere along the same curve as Italy and other nations, but still don't know where. 

The 64.000 dollar question is whether it will be testing results that show how far advanced the virus is in the US or if it will be the emergency rooms that let us know.  I would prefer the former but believe it will be the latter that opens folks eyes.  As some doc's have reported, this stuff is 'fast and furious'. 

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 18, 2020, 02:47:20 AM
China seems to be getting closer to the way it was.  Places are reopening.   A few thousand dead, about 80,000 infected.  Perhaps worse numbers than a regular flu season,but not the end of the world in China.   Of course they went wild and closed down entire cities, whereas the US has been lackadaisical for weeks and is only getting relatively serious in the past few days. 
As world cowers, China glimpses coronavirus aftermath

Restaurants are reopening, traffic and factories are stirring, and in one of the clearest signs yet that China is awakening from its coronavirus coma, the country's "dancing aunties" are once again gathering in parks and squares.

As the rest of the world runs for cover, China -- where the virus first emerged -- is moving, guardedly, in the opposite direction as domestic infections fall to nil following unprecedented lockdowns and travel restrictions.

But ordinary life is far from normal.

Masks and temperature checks ....

http://www.yahoo.com/news/world-cowers-china-glimpses-coronavirus-aftermath-074822309.html     (http://www.yahoo.com/news/world-cowers-china-glimpses-coronavirus-aftermath-074822309.html)

Fathertime!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 18, 2020, 02:54:53 AM
Dow Futures indicate another massive selloff in the morning, if they are correct.   I'm wondering if Trump is going to decide to close stock trading at a certain point with a partial justification being it is too dangerous for the traders, or the markets aren't working properly during this crisis. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 18, 2020, 03:01:00 AM
In a word, it's 'bailout'. For the entertainment industry, small businesses, for individuals that are financially impacted by the public health directives. 
I think the bailout will be mainly for bigger businesses actually. 
If I understand correctly trump is considering mailing out 1000 to all adults, it won't help me much but I think it could make a difference for many that are in greater financial need. 

I guess I'm ok with the bailout of big business as it may be necessary to keep things relatively normal. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 18, 2020, 04:17:51 AM
I wonder if it is easier as an individual to not bother with all the measures and if you aren't affected by the virus contagion if you get it then all very well if not then so be it.

I just wonder if we are all trying to run from the inevitable and it's all dragging it out a lot more than it would otherwise be.

Trench, do you not GET the 'flattening of the curve' aim of most governments ...trying to ensure their health services don't get swamped ..?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/coronavirus-flattening-the-curve-covid-19-vaccine-explained-healthcare-response-a9395441.html
 (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/coronavirus-flattening-the-curve-covid-19-vaccine-explained-healthcare-response-a9395441.html)


Yet ANOTHER case of Trench posting lots and simply not learning a thing about much ..

So.. are you THAT thick or just trolling ?




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 18, 2020, 04:59:24 AM
So.. are you THAT thick or just trolling ?

Maybe makes him feel superior in relative terms and sick kinda way.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 18, 2020, 05:30:49 AM
Let's go with your school of thought for a moment.  The US was due for a great financial fall, Trump said it was a great big nasty bubble.  If this were the case, the virus would be the excuse, and trump would come out smelling like a rose for defeating it, aside from the many dead.  I'm having a hard time believing this, although at this moment I wouldn't take anything off the table.

Fathertime!

A great financial fall?. I disagree with you there. Certainly the market was due for a correction but that's not what I am referring to. It's the fear that is getting hammered into everyone, everywhere as government is tightening it's grip on our lives. It's being justified under the guise of "your safety". This is happening all across the world for a virus and what this virus "may" do. Is an overreaction better than an under reaction? I'm not so sure in this case. When government takes away your rights for your safety, don't plan on getting them back
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 18, 2020, 06:18:50 AM
I think the bailout will be mainly for bigger businesses actually. 
If I understand correctly trump is considering mailing out 1000 to all adults, it won't help me much but I think it could make a difference for many that are in greater financial need. 

I guess I'm ok with the bailout of big business as it may be necessary to keep things relatively normal. 

Fathertime!

Estimate have it at $1.2 trillion. How it breaks out right now is as follows: $50B for the airline industry; $250B for ‘loans’ for small businesses; $250B for individuals impacted by job closures. Presumably, the rest will be dispensed accordingly i.e. hotels, cruise industry, continued individual support, etc..

11:30 est. will be another presser. Maybe the distribution will be defined with more clarity.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on March 18, 2020, 06:23:28 AM
I think the bailout will be mainly for bigger businesses actually. 
If I understand correctly trump is considering mailing out 1000 to all adults, it won't help me much but I think it could make a difference for many that are in greater financial need. 

I guess I'm ok with the bailout of big business as it may be necessary to keep things relatively normal. 

Fathertime!

People are on financial edge, I already have 3 people(non family) ask me for money. And I don't think $1000 would help them much. Its gonna get ugly.

Interesting items
Ruble is now 80 to 1 USD
10 yr USB are back over 1% and the 30 yr is 1.7%
Precious metals still in the tank

Looks like they are selling anything with a bid. I might have to start buying a few stocks.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 18, 2020, 07:07:13 AM
Estimate have it at $1.2 trillion. How it breaks out right now is as follows: $50B for the airline industry; $250B for ‘loans’ for small businesses; $250B for individuals impacted by job closures. Presumably, the rest will be dispensed accordingly i.e. hotels, cruise industry, continued individual support, etc..

11:30 est. will be another presser. Maybe the distribution will be defined with more clarity.
thanks for the breakdown.  I suppose at least it is something, but the financial fallout is so enormous and spread in so many directions that it won't do much I don't believe.  I'm reading about how certain mortgages won't be paid, well somebody is on the receiving end in those situations so those people will be out cash.  Entire industries are all suddenly out of work.  Two friends I think of have called, one is a DJ, all of his work is gone...and a woman who owes a flower business of some sort, all events cancelled, so no more money coming in.  We may go from 3% unemployment to 20% like Mnuchin said, and all at once.

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 18, 2020, 07:11:52 AM
People are on financial edge, I already have 3 people(non family) ask me for money. And I don't think $1000 would help them much. Its gonna get ugly.

Interesting items
Ruble is now 80 to 1 USD
10 yr USB are back over 1% and the 30 yr is 1.7%
Precious metals still in the tank

Looks like they are selling anything with a bid. I might have to start buying a few stocks.
Brazilian and Mexican currencies are at record lows...Colombia too.   

I've loaned out as much as I want to right now, so I am reining that in starting today.  Although stocks are beat up, I think they have a real chance of going a lot lower. When/if people start seeing hospitals overwhelmed confidence in the system is going to deteriorate further. 
Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 18, 2020, 07:13:26 AM
A great financial fall?. I disagree with you there. Certainly the market was due for a correction but that's not what I am referring to. It's the fear that is getting hammered into everyone, everywhere as government is tightening it's grip on our lives. It's being justified under the guise of "your safety". This is happening all across the world for a virus and what this virus "may" do. Is an overreaction better than an under reaction? I'm not so sure in this case. When government takes away your rights for your safety, don't plan on getting them back
Is there any particular right you are concerned we are going to lose?  The loss of the ability to travel is something I'd hate to see go on a permanent basis. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 18, 2020, 07:27:43 AM
Trench, do you not GET the 'flattening of the curve' aim of most governments ...trying to ensure their health services don't get swamped ..?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/coronavirus-flattening-the-curve-covid-19-vaccine-explained-healthcare-response-a9395441.html
 (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/coronavirus-flattening-the-curve-covid-19-vaccine-explained-healthcare-response-a9395441.html)


Yet ANOTHER case of Trench posting lots and simply not learning a thing about much ..

So.. are you THAT thick or just trolling ?

Might just be a case that we don't bother with hospitals just stay at home and accept you either make or you don't.

However, if vaccines are on the way and there has been a lot more talk in the media of them today then we may be in with a chance of avoiding too much of this bollocks:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/coronavirus-man-says-italy-went-21712585.amp

Note that workers in the later stages are generally not allowed to go to work unless they work in a needed job, Hospitals, Supermarkets, etc

Going down to minimum if any salary would be a real problem for many.

The nurses catching the virus and passing it to their families must be a pretty distressing situation for them also.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 18, 2020, 07:43:22 AM
Presumably, the rest will be dispensed accordingly i.e. hotels, cruise industry, continued
individual support, etc..

11:30 est. will be another presser. Maybe the distribution will be defined with more clarity.

The rest is pork, porky, pork-pork. Money for the abortion industry, union thugs, 
GOP and Demmy slush funds. There will never be more clarity. Maybe Rand Paul
will come out and report the money for poopy removal on Nancy Pelosi's sidewalk
and upgrading the Jet she flies home in. If he does McConnell will point out the
$18.97 that they spent on repainting damage done to the wall.



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 18, 2020, 07:48:55 AM
Is there any particular right you are concerned we are going to lose?  The loss of the ability to travel is something I'd hate to see go on a permanent basis. 

Fathertime!

Yeah, all of them. We have mayors and governors infringing on individual rights now. Signing orders and granting themselves the powers that be. Not in my particular area at the moment but the feeling is, it's coming. Martial law is very close to happening. Major cities are on lock down. All this for a virus that to date hasn't proven as lethal as our routine seasonal viruses. I'm not on a soapbox here. The media continues to fear monger, panic has broken out full bore. At the current rate it is only a matter of time before we're confined to our homes at the barrel of a gun.

There is over 100 deaths in the US they say? If there ends up being 100,000 is it worth the pandemonium and loss of civil liberties. The only thing that has brought the markets to a free fall is the rumors and fear
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 18, 2020, 07:53:50 AM
The rest is pork, porky, pork-pork. Money for the abortion industry, union thugs, 
GOP and Demmy slush funds. There will never be more clarity. Maybe Rand Paul
will come out and report the money for poopy removal on Nancy Pelosi's sidewalk
and upgrading the Jet she flies home in. If he does McConnell will point out the
$18.97 that they spent on repainting damage done to the wall.

Bush jr and Obama convinced us of the Auto and Bank bailouts in 2009. That was a trillion pissed in the wind. Literally. Other than making some cronies billionaires it did nothing. Bailouts on the backs of taxpayers IMHO is a waste of tax payer dollars
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 18, 2020, 08:00:19 AM
FP

Is the information described in the link below false?

http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 18, 2020, 08:08:04 AM
thanks for the breakdown.  I suppose at least it is something, but the financial fallout is so enormous and spread in so many directions that it won't do much I don't believe.  I'm reading about how certain mortgages won't be paid, well somebody is on the receiving end in those situations so those people will be out cash.  Entire industries are all suddenly out of work.  Two friends I think of have called, one is a DJ, all of his work is gone...and a woman who owes a flower business of some sort, all events cancelled, so no more money coming in.  We may go from 3% unemployment to 20% like Mnuchin said, and all at once.

Fathertime!

That's right! Even something as benign as Sunday religious congregations. Churches are economically impacted by this, too. Those $5, 10, 20 bills being placed in those collection baskets are all of the sudden gone. Poof!

I'm wondering when will public buses/subways, etc...grind to halt. There's a whole bunch of our population that rely on this fare to navigate their daily routine around the proper. Busloads of folks doesn't quite conform to the whole social distancing doomajigee.

Anyway, wifey and I discussed this last night and I'm going to our bank today to take out cash just in case. I need to go bury this in the backyard somewhere in case something goes haywire with the banks.

There's an undeniable sense of anxiety mixed in with some 'forced' optimism in the air out there. Kind'a fun, kind'a not. Again, the freeways are just awesome! I need to be in San Diego friday and I'm no longer dreading the drive like I normally do.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 18, 2020, 08:14:02 AM
Carlin had a picture of it 20 years ago

http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/george-carlin-told-america-how-not-to-worry-about-coronavirus-20-years-ago/?fbclid=IwAR08xPYr3hYYTnxSQE6rKNg_CqsigFSzCyqBXeCF07gq5ZlPwShBRAsg2RA (http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/george-carlin-told-america-how-not-to-worry-about-coronavirus-20-years-ago/?fbclid=IwAR08xPYr3hYYTnxSQE6rKNg_CqsigFSzCyqBXeCF07gq5ZlPwShBRAsg2RA)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 18, 2020, 08:18:02 AM
The rest is pork, porky, pork-pork. Money for the abortion industry, union thugs, 
GOP and Demmy slush funds. There will never be more clarity. Maybe Rand Paul
will come out and report the money for poopy removal on Nancy Pelosi's sidewalk
and upgrading the Jet she flies home in. If he does McConnell will point out the
$18.97 that they spent on repainting damage done to the wall.

LMAO! Considering the hot zones are liberal states, it seemed rather nonsensical to be pumping more money on Planned Parenthood clinics so they can boost the murder of children and at the same time supposedly fight the virus to save old farts with medical conditions. There's something wrong in that picture.

They should amend the abortion law.. *your choice, you pay*
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 18, 2020, 08:21:08 AM


Anyway, wifey and I discussed this last night and I'm going to our bank today to take out cash just in case. I need to go bury this in the backyard somewhere in case something goes haywire with the banks.

Oh boy you are an idiot!! and so am I, I discussed the very same thing yesterday...I have an obscene amount of cash in a safety box, (What if I died and family couldn't access it)  I also have a big back yard and the ground is moist with rain so digging is easy.    In addition I'm over the insured amount in my checking account so that is also under consideration. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 18, 2020, 08:29:59 AM
Bush jr and Obama convinced us of the Auto and Bank bailouts in 2009. That was a trillion pissed in the wind. Literally. Other than making some cronies billionaires it did nothing. Bailouts on the backs of taxpayers IMHO is a waste of tax payer dollars

Not for the most part. There are a few that went sideways. Chrysler for one. Solyndra, another. One of the silliest thing that happened was the bonus retirement package Ron Gettlefinger, the Union leader that accompanied GM/Chrysler in Congress, received immediately after the bailout.

The screw jobs were not from the federal, but rather down the drain in the State governments. Those shovel-ready, under A.R.R.A., is where most of the robberies took place.

Bank bailouts, unfortunately, were extremely important and necessary.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 18, 2020, 08:34:14 AM
Oh boy you are an idiot!! and so am I, I discussed the very same thing yesterday...I have an obscene amount of cash in a safety box, (What if I died and family couldn't access it)  I also have a big back yard and the ground is moist with rain so digging is easy.    In addition I'm over the insured amount in my checking account so that is also under consideration. 

Fathertime!

LMAO! It was a metaphor. Who buries their money in backyards these days except you?

BTW, I got one of those finger gloves in my car so I can always have one with me every time I need to press buttons when using debit card. Extra layer of protection baby!

Beautiful snowcapped mountains on the LA horizon this morning...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 18, 2020, 08:39:49 AM
Not for the most part. There are a few that went sideways. Chrysler for one. Solyndra, another. One of the silliest thing that happened was the bonus retirement package Ron Gettlefinger, the Union leader that accompanied GM/Chrysler in Congress, received immediately after the bailout.

The screw jobs were not from the federal, but rather down the drain in the State governments. Those shovel-ready, under A.R.R.A., is where most of the robberies took place.

Bank bailouts, unfortunately, were extremely important and necessary.

I don't recall the numbers and am to busy to look them up but I remember it did nothing to stimulate the economy or save it for that matter. Capitalism was ready to step in and pick through the bones of those "should have been defunct" companies. I said it then and now, banks and auto companies should be allowed to fail. Cash for clunkers was a joke but the cash for clunker companies wasn't
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 18, 2020, 08:46:56 AM
LMAO! It was a metaphor. Who buries their money in backyards these days except you?

BTW, I got one of those finger gloves in my car so I can always have one with me every time I need to press buttons when using debit card. Extra layer of protection baby!

Beautiful snowcapped mountains on the LA horizon this morning...

I was going to mention to you two cash hoarders that when your bank card doesn't work, likely the cash won't have any worth either. I had the same thought a few days ago :D
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 18, 2020, 08:57:39 AM
I don't recall the numbers and am to busy to look them up but I remember it did nothing to stimulate the economy or save it for that matter. Capitalism was ready to step in and pick through the bones of those "should have been defunct" companies. I said it then and now, banks and auto companies should be allowed to fail. Cash for clunkers was a joke but the cash for clunker companies wasn't

I'm with you there, bruddah! My sentiment then hasn't waned. Remember the savings and loans debacle in the 90s? We were all better for it being gone...

One of the other sillier things was the order Obama exercised by sending hundreds of millions to companies to make available those silly converters - analog signals to digital - for 'households' who can't afford HD TVs. LMAO! Robin Hood couldn't have thought of a better way to funnel money from one to another. I'm not aware of too many households on poverty level that didn't have HD TVs. That's what EBT cards were for other than booze, cigarettes and bail money. They even have BMWs with nice shiny rims parked on the driveways...

BTW, what ever happened to the underwear terrorist that prompted billions of sales for those x-ray airport scanner?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on March 18, 2020, 09:49:49 AM
Well Gentlemen, I have my list of stocks that I will sell puts on. Probably 20 min before the close. When market volatility is this high, its best to write the put option. The VIX is near 80. Read up on this strategy if you are unfamiliar with it.
The average with the stocks I am writing against, is a 20% return from the premiums if the market rebounds from here, that's 20% return in 3 months.
  If the market continues to drop, I get the stocks on an average 10% below todays market value and they become long term holds. Each one I feel OK with holding

 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on March 18, 2020, 09:55:26 AM
LMAO! It was a metaphor. Who buries their money in backyards these days except you?

BTW, I got one of those finger gloves in my car so I can always have one with me every time I need to press buttons when using debit card. Extra layer of protection baby!

Beautiful snowcapped mountains on the LA horizon this morning...


GBQ,
Would you mind snapping a photo of the mountains and posting? I grew up in So Cal and miss the mountain views.


Thanks,
HDL
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 18, 2020, 10:03:40 AM
Well Gentlemen, I have my list of stocks that I will sell puts on. Probably 20 min before the close. When market volatility is this high, its best to write the put option. The VIX is near 80. Read up on this strategy if you are unfamiliar with it.
The average with the stocks I am writing against, is a 20% return from the premiums if the market rebounds from here, that's 20% return in 3 months.
  If the market continues to drop, I get the stocks on an average 10% below todays market value and they become long term holds. Each one I feel OK with holding

Damn.  Exactly what I was thinking.

In the State of California we have 1014 confirmed cases of Corona Virus.   In California we have 40,000,000 people.   If your name is not Krimster, you are already seeing a plateauing of cases.   While I don't think we've seen the worst of things yet, we are on overkill for the number of hospital beds and testing kits. 

While the press seems to still be in panic mode, there is not a lot to report right now.   Look at today's headlines.   Most of it is regurgitation from the past week.  What does that mean?    In my mind it means that there is no massive outbreak in the US.   And every day we get through without that massive outbreak brings us one day closer to normalacy. 

If, after another week, we are pretty much status quo then people will be jumping back in the market.   But by that time, so will everyone else.



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 18, 2020, 10:06:24 AM


The closure of flights from China obviously did not work, the virus is there and all over the place. 



What would explain the lag between Italy and the US other than Trump's travel ban? 

The COVID-19 outbreak commenced in both Italy and the United States at the same approximate calendar time.    I assert because of Trump's subsequent travel ban, Italy broke out of its linear growth into an accelerating phase about two weeks sooner than it happened in the US. 

I admit because of under-testing in the US, the "number of total cases" is not comparable after March 1.   Thus, let's instead examine my assertion by comparing number of deaths (deaths are more likely to be classified correctly as discussed earlier). 

COVOID-19 deaths in the US total 108 as of today, and the number is surging.   In contrast, the number of deaths in Italy climbed to 2,503 today, and the number is surging.   

The data for deaths needs to be adjusted to take in account the 5.5x difference in population between the two countries.  All else being equal the US equivalent to 2,503 deaths is 13,800!!!!!! 

The number of deaths in the US totals 108 as of today.    That is the equivalent of 20 deaths in Italy.  Italy reported a total of 21 deaths on February 28, suggesting the "death curve" in the US is almost three weeks behind Italy. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 18, 2020, 10:13:31 AM
Well Gentlemen, I have my list of stocks that I will sell puts on. Probably 20 min before the close. When market volatility is this high, its best to write the put option. The VIX is near 80. Read up on this strategy if you are unfamiliar with it.
The average with the stocks I am writing against, is a 20% return from the premiums if the market rebounds from here, that's 20% return in 3 months.
  If the market continues to drop, I get the stocks on an average 10% below todays market value and they become long term holds. Each one I feel OK with holding

I'm personally holding. Sounds crazy but it's too darn late for me as it'll be crazier now if I dump. My wife tells me not to look anymore because its driving her crazier hearing me b!tch about it all the time, LMAO.

Have you been , or remember the Poppies in Lancaster (http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=lancaster+poppies+2019&FORM=HDRSC2)? We were thinking of going there until this storm hit...hopefully it didn't affect it too much.

Quote from: HoundDaddyLee
GBQ,
Would you mind snapping a photo of the mountains and posting? I grew up in So Cal and miss the mountain views.


Thanks,
HDL

By happy to oblige. There's a 40% forecast of more 'rain' (snow in higher elev) today and tomorrow, which should break by Friday. Friday I drive down south and will take the time to get a couple of pics. I'll see what I can do today when I get out.

Does anyone even know, or care, they had a 5.7 earthquake in Utah, too? Apparently knocked down their Coronavirus hotline.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 18, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
...I admit because of under-testing in the US, the "number of total cases" is not comparable after March 1.   Thus, let's instead examine my assertion by comparing number of deaths (deaths are more likely to be classified correctly as discussed earlier). 

COVOID-19 deaths in the US total 108 as of today, and the number is surging.   In contrast, the number of deaths in Italy climbed to 2,503 today, and the number is surging...

I made the same point with BC last week. He isn't buying it. Methinks had it been Obama and not Trump, he'd had no problem agreeing...the argument is, Italy is full of old people. Heck, knowing this, shouldn't Italy closed their borders ahead of Trump, then?

New deaths today: Italy 475, US 8. Critical/Serious cases: Italy 2,257; US 12

So I just let this pass.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on March 18, 2020, 10:21:45 AM
Here is a link to a PowerBI Dashboard with a COVID-19 Data Analysis:

http://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/healthcare-and-life-sciences/track-the-covid-19-growth-curve-in-power-bi/ba-p/1234137 (http://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftechcommunity.microsoft.com%2Ft5%2Fhealthcare-and-life-sciences%2Ftrack-the-covid-19-growth-curve-in-power-bi%2Fba-p%2F1234137&data=02%7C01%7C%7C19e2ec380a0742c7695c08d7cb602da5%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637201486245522869&sdata=Pgq8cQ738%2FkI274BL9mPijFMguDdFrAcERu8%2BOkHrFo%3D&reserved=0)


Here is another:
http://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 (http://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6)


HDL
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on March 18, 2020, 10:22:51 AM


By happy to oblige. There's a 40% forecast of more 'rain' (snow in higher elev) today and tomorrow, which should break by Friday. Friday I drive down south and will take the time to get a couple of pics. I'll see what I can do today when I get out.




Gracias amigo!


HDL
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 18, 2020, 10:27:41 AM
this is the infection summary for covid in the USA for the last 9 days

for the table I = total infected
N = new in last 24 hours

3-8-20               I      N
3-8-20               475  40
3-8-20               538    103    
3-9-20              624   83
3-10-20            975   271
3-11-20            1308   314
3-12-20            1716   415
3-13-20            2282   585
3-14-20            2836   589
3-15-20            3714   771
3-16-20            4667   987            
3-17-20            6482   1819         

anyone who has at least two functioning synapses
should understand what the above table of numbers
will look like by the end of April, and the virus even at the end of April, will still be far below the beginning of the late Spring peak

anyone who argues differently, believes in "magical thinking"
Joos didn't believe they were on the way to the ovens either
just like you Goyim are now...

those who were "early believers" figured out their survival plan earlier
and lived the first year
but most of them didn't get past the second one though

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 18, 2020, 10:38:22 AM
(http://cdn.creators.com/199/274627/274627_image.jpg)


(http://cdn.creators.com/1054/274527/274527_image.jpg)


(http://cdn.creators.com/201/274630/274630_image.jpg)


(http://cloudinary.cagle.com/image/upload/cs_srgb,w_600/cartoons/236375.png)


(http://cloudinary.cagle.com/image/upload/cs_srgb,w_600/cartoons/236377.png)


(http://cdn.creators.com/218/274510/274510_image.jpg)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 18, 2020, 10:46:26 AM
http://journals.lww.com/pidj/fulltext/2005/11001/history_and_recent_advances_in_coronavirus.12.aspx

covid is a “SARS" virus
in China, 40% of the workers in the “wet” animal food trade were seropositive for SARS
the 2003-2004 SARS epidemic was just like this one BUT
that epidemic infected a total of under 10,000 world wide with about the same death rate as covid
but covid has off the chart growth in comparison

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 18, 2020, 10:56:39 AM
Here is a link to a PowerBI Dashboard with a COVID-19 Data Analysis:

Splendid!  Thanks HDL. 

The graphics included from Microsoft's Greg Beaumont are outstanding.  His second page (bottom right) displays  "death rate vs. days from first case" for various nations.  It clearly shows the US is lagging behind Italy by 18 days.  Only Canada had a longer lag.  That chart would have saved me about 30-45 minutes of crunching data in my prior post. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 18, 2020, 11:00:55 AM
this is the infection summary for covid in the USA for the last 9 days

Save yourself some time and make your point more understandable by using the graphics source Hound Dog identified  above.  "1000 words vs. picture."
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 18, 2020, 11:09:30 AM
FP

Is the information described in the link below false?

http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/

I could not open your link.  I recall that TARP was a success - banks repaid all the US money with a significant profit.   Is that what your link says?

I do not recall what happened with Government Motors, yet it too was repaid IIRC.  I still assert Government Motors should have gone through bankruptcy court.  We could do without  GM, and the viable parts would have been reorganized into something that would be humming today.    Banks would be another matter.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 18, 2020, 11:10:36 AM
ok, my picture is SARS was a firecracker, covid is an atom bomb...

I like strawberry lipstick
I'm gonna buy one for myself
for when I have to kiss my ass goodby
either this year or next year...
especially considering the TP supply and availability problem in the distant future
flavored lipstick would just be a simple kindness to your own self in the end
strawberry instead of well, you know...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 18, 2020, 11:13:43 AM

What would explain the lag between Italy and the US other than Trump's travel ban? 


Gator,

We don't really know there is much of a 'lag' as there is not enough testing to support it.  Even the number of deaths in the USA could still be 'hidden' within the normal amounts of folks that die in flu season.  Numbers of cases are rising only because of more widespread testing.

There isn't enough testing being done to prove anything either way with a reasonable amount of confidence.

As you state, the population of the US is 6 times larger than Italy but in Italy a larger proportion of the population is elderly. Distances in the US are also much larger in the US even considering population that might slow things down a bit.  The US is 33 times the size of Italy.

Look at the simulations on this page:  http://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/

Think of Italy... then imagine moving the dots two, three or four or more times more distance apart... the 'spread' will slow.

Reports of hospitals getting low on supplies, getting more patients is being more widely reported in the US now.  Unfortunately, this is likely to continue.

The 'Boom' here is only around 10 days old and very concentrated. Here, thanks to the nationwide containment efforts and testing, we can see that the number of infections detected per day seems to be levelling out at around 3,000 per day.  It has not yet started to decrease, but I am confident that the number of tests being performed is well above the number of infections, enough so to give a good idea of what is going on.

Testing in the US is the limiting factor with the number of infections likely far above the number of tests being performed.

This should explain the time factor with the US starting at pretty much the same time but proceeding at a different, slower pace.  The downside is that many believe the US will not have problems like in Italy thus slowness and disjointed efforts with containment measures.

I really hope it does not get so bad in the US, but based on the slowness in testing and containment, the risk is considerable that the 'peak' in the US may well end up considerably higher than in Italy.

Unfortunately, the only viable method of measuring how the virus is progressing in the US is not via testing, but instead the death count and screaming hospitals.

I am not a religious man but do pray I am wrong despite all the evidence leading to the contrary.



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 18, 2020, 11:26:50 AM
Somebody wants you scared.

Partial explanation of the anxiety.  Your "somebody" is the  liberal media taking the four-year-long tactic of blaming Trump in its reporting, and the Democrat candidates are not letting that opportunity pass.  One would think we would work together and avoid the partisan ways in addressing such a crisis. 

Other reasons for heightened anxiety:   
       -  This is about 1) a lot of normal people being killed by something they can not see and 2) destroying the economy ( we were enjoying the good life and that now is threatened) 
       -  This is the first "social media pandemic."
       -  Many films have a doomsday theme.
       

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 18, 2020, 11:28:41 AM
I could not open your link.  I recall that TARP was a success - banks repaid all the US money with a significant profit.   Is that what your link says?

I would try the link again or with another browser, the link works fine here. 

It not only covers TARP but Freddie and Fanny along with a feature where you can enter the company to see what their payback status is.  GM was a net loss, others net gain.  All in all a gain.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on March 18, 2020, 11:42:41 AM
Splendid!  Thanks HDL. 

The graphics included from Microsoft's Greg Beaumont are outstanding.  His second page (bottom right) displays  "death rate vs. days from first case" for various nations.  It clearly shows the US is lagging behind Italy by 18 days.  Only Canada had a longer lag.  That chart would have saved me about 30-45 minutes of crunching data in my prior post.


You're welcome Gator. If I get anymore updated dashboards I will share them here. I agree that data is much better that the raving delusions of our resident Autistic.  :wallbash:


HDL
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 18, 2020, 12:23:42 PM
A meaty and thoughtful response.  Demands the same. 

We don't really know there is much of a 'lag' as there is not enough testing to support it. 

Not precisely.  That is why I went with deaths, and Hound Dog Daddy's linked graphics echo my observation. 

Quote
Even the number of deaths in the USA could still be 'hidden' within the normal amounts of folks that die in flu season. 

Patients when still alive are tested for many different strains of flu in order to design a treatment program. The symptoms and the absence of a known flu speaks volumes about COVId-19. 


Quote
Numbers of cases are rising only because of more widespread testing.
 

They rise because of 1)  more testing and 2)  community spreading.

Quote
There isn't enough testing being done to prove anything either way with a reasonable amount of confidence.
 

Such does not prevent a pragmatic solution.  Really, what would we likely be doing different if we had better data?    A travel ban?  Wait.  We did that.  If anything, because of the lack of testing data, we may be overshooting (such as a travel ban :)).  I don't mind erring on the safe side. 

Quote
As you state, the population of the US is 6 times larger than Italy but in Italy a larger proportion of the population is elderly. Distances in the US are also much larger in the US even considering population that might slow things down a bit.  The US is 33 times the size of Italy.

Yep.  Those are factors affecting the slope of the exponential growth, not whether it is linear or exponential growth ( Krimster has this point imprinted in his head))

Look at the simulations on this page:  http://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/

Quote
Think of Italy... then imagine moving the dots two, three or four or more times more distance apart... the 'spread' will slow.

Yes the linear and exponential growth rates slow, but not the 18-day lag before hitting the exponential phase that the travel ban provided.   

Quote
Reports of hospitals getting low on supplies, getting more patients is being more widely reported in the US now.  Unfortunately, this is likely to continue.

Yes, the crest of the water surge of this CAT 5 Hurricane (or Tsunami) is higher than the dunes and barriers  protecting the communities along the shore.   

Quote
The 'Boom' here is only around 10 days old and very concentrated. Here, thanks to the nationwide containment efforts and testing, we can see that the number of infections detected per day seems to be levelling out at around 3,000 per day.  It has not yet started to decrease, but I am confident that the number of tests being performed is well above the number of infections, enough so to give a good idea of what is going on.
 

I saw that in your chart, and it appears the growth is plateauing. Splendid!!!! The percentage increase each day in Italian cases is stabilizing, even decreasing.   If this pattern holds, you will soon be sharing an espresso with your community intelligentsia at the local cafe, talking about testing.  ;)   

Quote
Testing in the US is the limiting factor with the number of infections likely far above the number of tests being performed.

This is the third time you mentioned this.  Got it! In fact I agree.  Yet it does not change the "lag" observations based on deaths. 

Quote
This should explain the time factor with the US starting at pretty much the same time but proceeding at a different, slower pace. 

The true linear phase perhaps has a steeper slope.  Does not matter.  What matters is when the exponential phase started.   

Quote
The downside is that many believe the US will not have problems like in Italy thus slowness and disjointed efforts with containment measures.

They are wrong, and not small in number, but its America.  We can't muster the troops and shoot them. 

Quote
I really hope it does not get so bad in the US, but based on the slowness in testing and containment, the risk is considerable that the 'peak' in the US may well end up considerably higher than in Italy.

Unadjusted peak for sure.  Relative peak based on population?  Hope not because Italy is taking it on the chin.   

Quote
Unfortunately, the only viable method of measuring how the virus is progressing in the US is not via testing, but instead the death count and screaming hospitals.
Bingo!  That is why I went with deaths rather than tests.  We have discussed this before, yes.

Quote
I am not a religious man but do pray I am wrong despite all the evidence leading to the contrary.

It is already worse that what I expected.  I explained pages ago my analysis to sell 20% of my stock holdings.  Then I sold another 5% with the oil war.  I did not hesitate, and it still was not enough.  And the hedging I did was minimal.  :(    If one could only invest in retrospect...... (that would end many conversations).   

All I have to do now is stay alive to catch the rebound when the stock market realizes it overshot the landing strip.     
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 18, 2020, 12:59:59 PM
Gator,

I won't answer point for point as we agree in many already.

I am not confident that at least early on those that passed in the US were tested.  After all, why waste a test in short supply when even doctors have a hard time getting themselves tested.

Also as posted earlier, the first cases in Italy and US were at most a few days apart.  As well as the 33 * Italy distance factor there are also social aspects as well that should be considered.  Social personal distance is quite different in our respective home countries.  A LOT more cheek kissing goes on here between all genders and ages. Simple handshake vs a handshake + kisses on both cheeks + a hug thrown-in and maybe a crotch salute between males equals much higher chances of passing on an infection.

As far as comparing statistics goes is that we have a LOT more valuable information in Italy and what seems to be a reliable official count of infected, deaths, cases in intensive care, hospitalizations, discharges and those in home quarantines on a daily basis.

CDC is hopelessly lost and at least a week behind with getting test results out. With a virus that moves this quick a week is an eternity. Even when it is over it will be almost impossible to come up with a reasonably accurate tally.

This can be devastating.  Just think of those folks that just bought a warehouse full of the most valuable asset, respirators and protective gear..  how in hell are they going to be able to decide how many will need to be sent to hospitals that need them the most, much less so in advance based on the number of emerging cases?  It is a 'Perfect Storm' brewing when it comes to planning and logistics.  It is one thing for a doctor to make a hard decision, quite another to not have a way to efficiently use much of the resources that are available.

http://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/testing-in-us.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Ftesting-in-us.html





 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 18, 2020, 01:02:54 PM
The Nile, is a big-ass river in Egypt
Denial is the thing you're feeling now...

how are you guys gonna feel, when I show you guys a guest bedroom that I filled with toilette paper from Costco last month...
literally YEARS of supply OR barter

a couple months from now, I'm gonna light my joints with rolls of flaming toilette paper
and watch you rednecks with inflamed irritated  hemorrhoids squirm...

an-ticipation...
it's making me wait...

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 18, 2020, 01:03:29 PM
There is a difference between 'Screened' and 'Tested'.   

I walked by a Kaiser Permanente Hospital today and the only thing I saw different from every other day is that every person I saw walking in and out of the hospital had a blue tag on that said:  'Screened'

I would assume that means temperature taken, but not fully tested for the virus.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 18, 2020, 01:04:15 PM
The Nile, is a big-ass river in Egypt
Denial is the thing you're feeling now...

how are you guys gonna feel, when I show you guys a guest bedroom that I filled with toilette paper from Costco last month...
literally YEARS of supply OR barter

a couple months from now, I'm gonna light my joints with rolls of flaming toilette paper
and watch you rednecks with inflamed irritated  hemorrhoids squirm...

an-ticipation...
it's making me wait...

Did you ever contemplate that you might be part of the problem, not the solution?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 18, 2020, 01:11:07 PM
hey, can't you see, "I'm WORKIN' here!"
geeezzz...


ching, ching, make it rain over here!
thirsty, baby bring it over here!

pieces of eight!
pieces of eight!


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 18, 2020, 01:48:13 PM
Jone,

http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2020/03/18/kaiser-permanente-to-ramp-up-coronavirus-testing-by-next-week/

I remembered a report they were starting drive-through testing.

Quote
These drive-thru locations won’t be open to the public and are not being publicized, Kaiser spokespersons said, adding that for now coronavirus testing is only being made available to those who have insurance through Kaiser.

Guess one has to first be in a risk group, and experience serious symptoms, find a doctor that will prescribe the test for you and then go shopping for a test that takes 3-5 days to get results, *if* the processing lab has the capacity and materials to actually run the test.

brr....

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 18, 2020, 01:58:54 PM
BC,

I think they pretty well have identified the likely infected group already, meaning those that appear to have symptoms.   It is the group that is walking around without symptoms that is the danger.   And, until there is a test for everyone, we will never know who that group is.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 18, 2020, 02:15:44 PM
I have a son who worked for Hertz rental cars.
They just laid off about a third of their staff in
Austin, including him.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 18, 2020, 02:16:25 PM
jone,

Yes, that is why hunkering down is so important.  Yesterday the total number of tests here was 140,000, today 165,000 so we're doing approximately 25,000 tests per day over here.  CDC says they did 27,000+ tests from 18 January to 17 March including outside laboratories.

A bit of reassuring news from home.  My parents in their 80's live on an island. The access bridges to the island have been closed with passage allowed only with a permit.  Despite this, they are still staying home isolating themselves.  They have plenty of TP.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 18, 2020, 02:20:16 PM
Sorry to hear that 2Tall.  Does his healthcare plan continue when laid off?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 18, 2020, 03:30:39 PM
Ran across an interesting statistic.

During the period 11-17 March over a million people were controlled by police in outside areas. More than 43,000 citations/summons were issued. They will have to go to criminal court, pay a lawyer and end up paying a fine or jail time.  Around 1500 stores that should not have been open were shuttered and will also be fined etc.

My daughter said some idiots were putting stuffed toys on leashes and sticks and walking around like they were walking dogs.  I hope they got caught.

Late here so off to bed.  Stay safe, stay home.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 18, 2020, 04:06:04 PM
Reports of hospitals getting low on supplies, getting more patients is being more widely reported in the US now.  Unfortunately, this is likely to continue.
.

I haven't read any reports on that. I do know hospitals been calling people to cancel to reduce their load. Also with early limits on group size and closing of schools, limiting or banning recreation, sports and events, there are less flu, colds, and injuries hospitals have to deal with. Our government did a good job to reduce the load in hospitals should a load of people infected with the virus show up.

I did read our government is considering spending a trillion dollars or more to fight the virus and give Americans $2000. It means we can expect to stay home longer than two weeks. Still won't solve the problem. More needs to be done to get the virus out of every human body. Trump has also banned evictions. Some companies are giving discounts on food. There will be more relief given to us by our government and private companies. Although only 150 died so far, America may spend more fighting COVID-19 than any war we've ever been in.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on March 18, 2020, 04:27:42 PM
Of the two doctors in critical condition, one is a man in his 40s in Washington state who was working at EvergreenHealth Medical Center in Kirkland. The area is at the center of one of the country’s largest COVID-19 outbreaks. The man, who is reportedly in critical but stable condition, had access to and complied with appropriate PPE procedures, the ACEP said. It’s unclear if the doctor contracted the virus while working or from community transmission.

The other in critical condition is a physician in his 70s in Patterson, New Jersey. The doctor led his institution’s emergency preparedness. He is in isolation in an intensive care unit.

http://arstechnica.com/staff/2020/03/us-healthcare-workers-already-hit-by-coronavirus-2-in-critical-condition/
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 18, 2020, 05:14:59 PM
Earlier in this thread I mentioned watching a movie called *CONTAGION*. It was a 2011 movie with some pretty good actors and actresses playing in it. It was a movie depiction of the 2002-2003 SARS virus outbreak, but many parts of it is eerily similar to many things happening today.

This video sort of point important factoids of the movie as it relates to COVID-19. Almost prophetic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P6nrjciiS0
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 18, 2020, 05:34:09 PM
It's been announced earlier today that all schools in the UK are to closed for most pupils at the end of the week. The only children that will go to school will be those of key workers, ie, Nurses, Doctors, Police and Supermarket workers (usual for them to be seen as key workers).

Meanwhile, the numbers of deaths in Italy reached their highest ever today. Looks like they still have some way to go before they get out there of the woods.

Cases of Coronavirus and deaths jumped a bit here this last day or so. So it looks like we are on the start of the spiral upwards. In the Dorset area we only have had seven cases and a good few days gap after the first, 4 or 5 cases. So we are lucky here as numbers have been low so far avoiding the worst of it, so when lockdowns start to occur are stay at the family home and hopefully a vaccine or decrease in it will occur before a scenario like in Italy occurs.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: mhr7 on March 18, 2020, 05:51:10 PM
So, I've been in the States for the last 2 weeks and was due to go back to Russia yesterday. I caught the midnight flight from Denver to JFK, sat around for 8 hours not doing much of anything, went to thee Aeroflot check in when it opened and was told I couldn't board the plane. Even though the flight started on the 17th, it would have landed on the 18th after the border closing already had gone into effect. So I had to buy another ticket, wait 7 hours and come  back to Denver. 22 hours of my life wasted.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 18, 2020, 06:01:46 PM
see here, Trench my lad,
snap out of it!!!

the longer you survive compared to the other guys
the greater your Pooty Tang Potential (PTP) is gonna be...
cuz you're the one still breathin....
and as bad as you're probably gonna smell
it'll still be a whole lot better than the guys who aren't breathin....

Page 1 of Krimster's Post Apocalyptic Guide to Dating

yes, Trench even at a time like this you must consider
that man does not live by bread alone...

so Trench, are there any, well, you know...
attractive young single ladies in your area...
but you currently feel they are "out of your league"?
any....


Yeah, I've come around now Krim, I'm back in the survivalist mindset. My gas mask arrived today that I ordered. I'm going to keep that one in reserve in case the  really hits the fans. At the moment things are still pretty sedate where I am with few cases so I don't really have a need to even wear a respirator or paper mask as yet, but I'm ready with the whole range to suit purpose as it arises.

Together with a white protective overall with hood the gas mask makes it almost a hazmat suit but at a far cheaper price.

I've knocked the gym on the head for the past few weeks as it's just too risky. It's a pain as I was really starting to progress. However, I think I now have worked out a solution where I can do it at home by creating a decent space where I'll have space to move around.

Well anyway, if there are any hot birds around I'll tempt them with my supply of TP for now ;D
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 18, 2020, 06:11:44 PM
I won't answer point for point as we agree in many already.

Good.

 
Quote
I am not confident that at least early on those that passed in the US were tested.  After all, why waste a test in short supply when even doctors have a hard time getting themselves tested.

The first wave (before the travel ban) certainly were not tested.  The second wave were turned back unless they had permanent resident status.  The only tests I have read of were the passengers from the quarantined cruise ship.   

Quote
CDC is hopelessly lost and at least a week behind with getting test results out.

The CDC failed with the testing.  An Admiral from the USPHS directed the transition from CDC's manual tests to the new system, a private-public partnership of screening individuals,  collecting samples from individuals at PODS modules operated at retail locations,   and analyzing the samples at high throughput commercial laboratories. 

Quote
...how in hell are they going to be able to decide how many will need to be sent to hospitals that need them the most, much less so in advance based on the number of emerging cases? 

I am uncertain how that will be decided.  Multiple Federal agencies are involved, most of whom such as the FDA, CDC, and NIH are with the HHS Dept.  The USPHS is more independent, reporting to the Surgeon General.  Then come the state and local Health Departments.  The hospitals except for the VA are mostly private.  The hospitals will not want to invest in increasing their supply of expensive ventilators for what should be a short term need.   

This will not be perfect.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 18, 2020, 07:35:19 PM
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feQIhzNpBLQ

Later "The Omega Man" and then "I Am Legend"
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 18, 2020, 07:48:14 PM
BC,

Trump plans to invoke the Defense Protection Act.  The Act is the "primary source of Presidential authorities to expedite and expand the supply of resources from the U.S. industrial base to support military, energy, space, and homeland security programs."

I have never heard of it, and learned it is from the 1950s.  It seems it will allow Trump to cut through the bureaucratic morass to distribute supplies in  private sector  inventories to points of need to combat the disease. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on March 18, 2020, 08:09:59 PM
Beware of links for covid19 information.

Cybercriminals constantly latch on to news items that captivate the public’s attention, but usually they do so by sensationalizing the topic or spreading misinformation about it. Recently, however, cybercrooks have started disseminating real-time, accurate information about global infection rates tied to the Coronavirus/COVID-19 pandemic in a bid to infect computers with malicious software.

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/03/live-coronavirus-map-used-to-spread-malware/
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 18, 2020, 08:50:38 PM
(http://images.theweek.com/sites/default/files/13_69.jpg?resize=807x807)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 18, 2020, 08:56:07 PM
IMHO, it will be no later than next Tuesday, that the USA has NO CHOICE but to do a full shutdown....

I work this out, by taking the delivery date of the first check (April 6) minus 2 weeks - would make it March 23
so I'm calling it for next Monday as the shutdown day or Tuesday at the latest....

the first day after that, grocery stores will have lines and limits and a LOT more sick people than they used to have...
yes Virginia, sick people are showing up and standing in line with perfectly healthy people in order to get food...
during the time when the virus is hitting its peak


the recent selloff is the steepest drop in market history
if you guys with skin in the game don't sell it by tomorrow, then you will soon have NO skin....
your choice as to how big your losses will be depending on whether you sell tomorrow

the short term market ise was 100% due to the feds trillions,
to save the market, the fed would have to buy the entire market
and it's actually possible




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 18, 2020, 08:58:37 PM
(http://images.theweek.com/sites/default/files/11_93.jpg?resize=807x807)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: IvanM07 on March 18, 2020, 10:06:12 PM
They have all us on our floor working remote to self quarantine since one guy got the WuFlu.

I'm cool with it, we'll see if I present symptoms in the next 2 weeks. Not particularly concerned either way. They did a 'Deep clean' of the office last 3 days.

Feel bad for friends in nonessential positions, thankfully Comms/Internet is deemed essential.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 18, 2020, 10:18:21 PM
So, I've been in the States for the last 2 weeks and was due to go back to Russia yesterday. I caught the midnight flight from Denver to JFK, sat around for 8 hours not doing much of anything, went to thee Aeroflot check in when it opened and was told I couldn't board the plane. Even though the flight started on the 17th, it would have landed on the 18th after the border closing already had gone into effect. So I had to buy another ticket, wait 7 hours and come  back to Denver. 22 hours of my life wasted.

Nations, including Russia are creating new restrictions on a daily basis against citizens of nations in the hot zones. It's best citizens stay in or return to their home nation. It's a wild world we're living in now.

Report tells US policy makers to expect 18 months or more of the pandemic with multiple outbreaks. Folks, expect more hardship and no vaccine.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/u-virus-plan-anticipates-18-190626012.html

British cruise ship has an outbreak. No nation wants them but Cuba accepts them. Seriously, after all the news, people still taking cruises?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/virus-hit-cruise-ship-ms-braemar-docks-in-cuba-after-caribbean-odyssey/ar-BB11mE6E?ocid=spartanntp

Took a two hour drive to buy a transmission in Hoodsport, WA today. Their population is around 400 and basically in the middle of nowhere. I stopped at the food market and they were out of toilet paper, hand sanitizer and bread. There was a sign saying there was a limit of two milk but there wasn't even one milk available.

I was at a jobsite doing work for a new home. I used the honeybucket (portable potty). I told the owner he chose a good neighborhood to live in because nobody stole the toilet paper in the honeybucket. Toilet paper is so valuable now that it may someday be used as a form of currency. It may be cheaper to wipe your ass with a wad of $100 bills than with toilet paper.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: IvanM07 on March 19, 2020, 12:33:06 AM
Hmm. Coughing,fever and headache fair to say I have it gents.

I know I've been a troll but I'll tell you the closest info possible.

I won't lie as the women around me can attest.

I'll exit unscathed)))
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 19, 2020, 01:05:04 AM
Get well soon Ivan.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 19, 2020, 01:05:26 AM
Nations, including Russia are creating new restrictions on a daily basis against citizens of nations in the hot zones. It's best citizens stay in or return to their home nation. It's a wild world we're living in now.

Report tells US policy makers to expect 18 months or more of the pandemic with multiple outbreaks. Folks, expect more hardship and no vaccine.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/u-virus-plan-anticipates-18-190626012.html

It's looking likely that it is too late for Russia, Ukraine & Eastern Europe to avoid it judging that cases have started to increase there too as the most recent worldwide Coronavirus map demonstrates:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic

Looks like it's spread is almost inevitable there now. They will be behind the UK and the US but whether that will remain so depends on if they can slow the spread of the virus. Likely after a month or so they will be in the thick of it also. A country like Ukraine with its economy already in a poor way is not likely to fair well. I guess if  it holds up in the FSU that more men than women pass away with it and there are enough severe cases of it then that could add to any gender imbalance, moreso in the older age groups.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 19, 2020, 01:09:09 AM
I haven't read any reports on that.

Just go to news.google.com and type in 'hospital supplies' in the search field.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 19, 2020, 04:49:50 AM
Just go to news.google.com and type in 'hospital supplies' in the search field.
I thought the supply shortage was a bunch of bull but...
I Spoke to my buddy the nurse in northern California.   He said the nurses are about to riot because they don't have enough n95 masks and they are having to treat patients in isolation rooms without protection.   He said it is a near certainty he will be getting the virus and is concerned if he can survive it since he is 100 pounds overweight, with diabetes, previous heart attack, and in his 50's.   

Fathertime!   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 19, 2020, 04:53:04 AM
Hmm. Coughing,fever and headache fair to say I have it gents.

I know I've been a troll but I'll tell you the closest info possible.

I won't lie as the women around me can attest.

I'll exit unscathed)))

Troll or not, you're young enough and will be fine !

You may yet  be VERY useful - if tested as having had the virus and ( recovered) and anti-bodies present -  to society !    ;)

Take care, Ivan



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 19, 2020, 05:00:03 AM
I thought the supply shortage was a bunch of bull but...
I Spoke to my buddy the nurse in northern California.   He said the nurses are about to riot because they don't have enough n95 masks and they are having to treat patients in isolation rooms without protection.   He said it is a near certainty he will be getting the virus and is concerned if he can survive it since he is 100 pounds overweight, with diabetes, previous heart attack, and in his 50's.   

Fathertime!

That is one of the issues Italy has faced.  Right now over 2,000 doctors, nurses and other staff are infected and are not able to help patients.  They also reportedly get hit harder by the virus, maybe because of the vastly increased amount of virus that they are exposed to which just guessing could overload the immune system by hitting hard fast and repeatedly.  All the ventilators in the world won't help if there is no one around that can operate them.

Also, have to remember that the normal workload of hospitals goes on.  Heart attacks and other 'normal' critical health incidents won't stop happening.  The risk is high for these otherwise normal patients getting infected at the hospital.  They become part of the most vulnerable that may end up passing from this 'complication.  China says 4 out of 5 infections were passed on by folks that did not know they had the virus.

Very very nasty stuff.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 19, 2020, 05:01:42 AM
LMAO! It was a metaphor. Who buries their money in backyards these days except you?

BTW, I got one of those finger gloves in my car so I can always have one with me every time I need to press buttons when using debit card. Extra layer of protection baby!

Beautiful snowcapped mountains on the LA horizon this morning...
Oh you silly teaser!    I haven't pulled he money just yet I was too busy, but burying cash is probably safer than leaving it in a place in the house where it could catch fire.  Of course burying it also runs the risk of somebody knowing you have buried it, and coming in and taking it.  My dogs might stop them, but supermarket had no food yesterday so bowser may wind up on the dinner plate by next month. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 19, 2020, 05:07:46 AM
I was going to mention to you two cash hoarders that when your bank card doesn't work, likely the cash won't have any worth either. I had the same thought a few days ago :D
of course this sort of sentiment *Which is true* lends some credence to the people overstocking their little pantry.  If I really believed there was a risk that my goofy money wasn't going to have much, if any value down the road, I spend it all right now at the supermarket or auto supplies store, and I'd store fuel, and anything else tangible.  I'm not there yet of course, but I can see how people can convince themselves to take that route.

Fathertime!   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 19, 2020, 05:11:46 AM
Well Gentlemen, I have my list of stocks that I will sell puts on. Probably 20 min before the close. When market volatility is this high, its best to write the put option. The VIX is near 80. Read up on this strategy if you are unfamiliar with it.
The average with the stocks I am writing against, is a 20% return from the premiums if the market rebounds from here, that's 20% return in 3 months.
  If the market continues to drop, I get the stocks on an average 10% below todays market value and they become long term holds. Each one I feel OK with holding

I'm still concerned about buying at this moment.   It SEEMS there is still more room to go down, a lot more room.  Verizon may be a good choice though if it falls further.

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 19, 2020, 06:00:57 AM
of course this sort of sentiment *Which is true* lends some credence to the people overstocking their little pantry.  If I really believed there was a risk that my goofy money wasn't going to have much, if any value down the road, I spend it all right now at the supermarket or auto supplies store, and I'd store fuel, and anything else tangible.  I'm not there yet of course, but I can see how people can convince themselves to take that route.

Fathertime!   

Currency is only as good as the country that printed it. Soon enough every transaction will be electronic and cash worthless. Is it here now? I wouldn't think so but in crisis such as there it could easily get there
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 19, 2020, 06:06:39 AM
Just go to news.google.com and type in 'hospital supplies' in the search field.

There's a shortage in some hospitals if they get a wave of patients. There is not wave a patients. Our nation has not been hit hard. We are preparing for a hit that may never come.

Hmm. Coughing,fever and headache fair to say I have it gents.

I know I've been a troll but I'll tell you the closest info possible.

I won't lie as the women around me can attest.

I'll exit unscathed)))

You have signs of a flu, not COVID-19. Headaches are not a symptom of COVID-19. Get your free COVID-19 test anyway. Take no chances with your or other people's lives.

http://www.uab.edu/news/youcanuse/item/11179-sorting-out-symptoms-of-covid-19-influenza-colds-and-allergies
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 19, 2020, 06:20:51 AM

if you guys with skin in the game don't sell it by tomorrow, then you will soon have NO skin....


If you believe this, sell your gold (which has been hammered), sell your bitcoin (also hammered), sell your toilet paper, dig up your horde of cash in your backyard........... combine all of your liquid cash..... and buy SPXS (large cap 3x bear ETF).  It has doubled in 3 weeks.

You won't do this.  Why?  Because you are not an idiot.  So why do you post like a crazed idiot? 

Will you please reach inside yourself and attempt to contribute to this discussion in a reasoned manner.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 19, 2020, 06:27:41 AM
Hmm. Coughing,fever and headache fair to say I have it gents.

Get well.   

Dry cough?  What you describe could be seasonal flu.   Did you have a flu shot?   Call your family MD.
Take some vitamins, fluids and OTC anti-inflammatory med.   Rest in self-isolation.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 19, 2020, 06:28:51 AM
http://georgiatoday.ge/news/20016/Wuhan-Reports-No-New-Cases-of-Coronavirus-for-the-First-Time-since-Outbreak


40 cases of coronavirus in Georgia.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 19, 2020, 06:42:06 AM
If you believe this, sell your gold (which has been hammered), 
Inaccurate.  Gold has not been hammered. Down slightly off of very high highs. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 19, 2020, 06:45:33 AM
BC, 

Yes, the US healthcare system is showing signs of being stressed, and we are just now at the beginning of the epidemic curve. 


If you believe the US healthcare system response is problematic......

just wait until the financial bail-out starts.   

It will be fraught with mistakes, yet necessary. 

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 19, 2020, 07:17:28 AM
BC and Sandro,

Please keep us informed about Italy.  Italy (not just northern Italy)  is the Western Democracy canary in the coal mine.

I hope to see more slowing of new infections in Italy.  The real clue will be deaths.   

Guidelines in US:

            time from infection to hospitalization  9-12 days
            time from infection to death              3 +/- weeks   

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 19, 2020, 07:34:55 AM
BC, 

Yes, the US healthcare system is showing signs of being stressed, and we are just now at the beginning of the epidemic curve. 


If you believe the US healthcare system response is problematic......

just wait until the financial bail-out starts.   

It will be fraught with mistakes, yet necessary.

IMHO every nation that is dealing with this virus crisis healthcare system is stressed and overloaded. None were prepared to treat even a relatively small portion of the entire population from an additional illness on top of what they already serve on a regular basis. Throw in a pandemic and the problems that follow and all hell breaks loose. BC seemingly has had a tone that the US healthcare system is inferior to Italy and other nations. He points to lack of testing but for me that doesn't begin to quantify his position. I do truly believe the US system is likely one of the best in the world. We won't know where in the curve we are until we're at the end of it, will we?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 19, 2020, 07:37:11 AM
Headaches is a symptom of COVID-19.

Quote
typical signs and symptoms include: fever (87.9%), dry cough (67.7%), fatigue (38.1%), sputum production (33.4%), shortness of breath (18.6%), sore throat (13.9%), headache (13.6%), myalgia or arthralgia (14.8%), chills (11.4%), nausea or vomiting (5.0%), nasal congestion (4.8%), diarrhea (3.7%), and hemoptysis (0.9%), and conjunctival congestion (0.8%).

http://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/who-china-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf (http://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/who-china-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf)


Hope you feel better soon, Ivan.


Google was used to find the above link.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 19, 2020, 07:38:22 AM
"If you believe this, sell your gold"

I can't sell my gold, it's all buried now!!!

if you over 60, sell all your stock, in your lifetime it will be worthless
the crash that is coming will be worse than anything that's EVER happened, even the great depression

sell now, or throw it away next month

I sold EVERYTHING in July, because the underlying numbers were increasingly getting worse BACK THEN....
before the virus...

gold and silver should have fallen through the floor when oil fell, but they didn't.....
wait a year....and see how much food I can buy with a morgan or peace silver dollar or ounce of silver, vrs paper money with the people bartering food
in the USA, after this year, "bricks" of 22 rimfire ammunition will be currency

I collect Weimar period German money, guess what's coming AFTER the deflationary period
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 19, 2020, 07:44:50 AM
Therapeutic Drugs

There is much buzz about drugs, already in human use for other indications, that could be a therapeutic measure for COVID-19:

             Chloroquine:   anti-malarial drug being tested in various locations with somewhat promising prelim results
             Combination of HIV drugs: different combos are being tested, and yesterday's news reported the trials in China failed for one made by Abbvie.   
             Remdesivir:  antiviral produced by Gilead.  Being tested at breakneck speeds on COVID patients in various locations.  Deemed by WHO to hold the best promise of efficacy, yet it failed in earlier ebola tests.  . 

In addition, some other existing drugs are being considered such as for rheumatoid arthritis (an autoimmune condition). 

If scientists find an effective therapeutic drug, the world will celebrate indeed.   That is more likely than Krimster's scenario. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 19, 2020, 07:48:10 AM
ivan that which does not kill you makes you stronger....

so...
if true, most important thing, keep everyone away from you...
especially grandma....

and don't worry
we're all gonna get it sooner or later, EVERYONE

but...
Flu will totally prank a gazillion people into thinking they have covid

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 19, 2020, 07:50:37 AM
Gator...
you had a good life, we all did...

just accept what's coming...
because it's all you're gonna be left with...
be brave for your family

I already went into the forest and cried for almost 20 minutes
so my family wouldn't see me....
because I KNOW EXACTLY what's coming...
for my family, I have to be RAMBO, and RAMBO sheds not a tear....in front of others...
it's how the survivors will remember us, our stoicism in the face of death


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 19, 2020, 08:05:28 AM
the virus is gonna be BAD...

http://www.cnn.com/2020/03/19/health/us-coronavirus-case-updates-thursday/index.html

zoom in for the final closeup of Howdy Doody...
"goodby kids!"
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 19, 2020, 08:29:11 AM
FP,

Indeed, every nation facing this crisis will be overloaded.  Consider the comparison points that I bring up not as a direct critique of other systems, but instead thoughts for the future.  This will NOT be the last global pandemic we will face.  Another can appear tomorrow.  Although bad, we are fortunate thus far that this virus is not many times more deadly as it is.

One of the difficulties we have as Americans (myself included) is our feeling of being somehow exceptional, often disregarding experiences of other countries by sticking labels on them such as 'socialist' turning us into a nation of ignorant naysayers.

I'm not going to say our healthcare system in the US is inferior, but surely can appreciate the advantages of other healthcare systems that come to light during such crisis. 

The 'curve' is a measure, but not one of success.

I do see advantages with universal type healthcare systems.  All over the globe, folks are getting sick, isolating themselves and laid off work, even here.  What is different in most if not all of Europe is that sick leave is a given and not something that requires new, time-consuming legislation.  folks that are laid off do not lose their healthcare coverage.  They do not have to live in fear of a hospital bill or worse, losing their homes or having to declare bankruptcy.  Deciding whether to go to the doctor or hospital based on how high the bill or copay will be is a totally 'foreign' idea over here.  Being refused treatment or tests at a hospital because my insurer is not part of their 'system' would be considered absurd here but is happening back home.  Take an unconscious patient arriving at a hospital in the US.  What is the patient's history?  What are the pre-existing conditions, what recent treatment has he/she received recently?  Here, much of that data is readily available with the card we all carry.  Being more centralized, the 'system' can make better and faster overall decisions.  It may not be perfect but decisionmakers have a LOT more information here to work with that makes it helpful to try and 'stay ahead of the curve'.

The way I see it, our 'exceptionalism' is killing us - literally and financially.  The bill will be high in Italy, but for the most part, will get what they pay for a lot quicker.

I could go on and on...  Hopefully a few here will get the gist of what I'm trying to say in my posts.

Maybe I'm wrong, so please do let me know of any advantages you see with remaining one of the very few highly industrialized and wealthy nations in the world without universal healthcare is beneficial, especially in times such as we are now living.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 19, 2020, 08:52:29 AM
I'm happy to see Los Angelenos, at least those within my radar, took the CDC guideline to flatten the curve and did without the usual celebration of St Patty's Day!

Some things relevant to the current situation:

DISPELLING THE MTYHS AROUND CORONAVIRUS (http://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-myths.html)

THE INFECTION RATE OF COVID-19 (http://labblog.uofmhealth.org/rounds/how-scientists-quantify-intensity-of-an-outbreak-like-covid-19)

Let's Flatten The Curve One American at a Time...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 19, 2020, 08:52:57 AM
I was informed that non-essential federal offices will be closing tomorrow.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 19, 2020, 08:53:28 AM
BC seemingly has had a tone that the US healthcare system is inferior to Italy and other nations. He points to lack of testing but for me that doesn't begin to quantify his position. I do truly believe the US system is likely one of the best in the world.

I imagine you and I have the benefit of the latest and best medical treatment in the world.  Maybe we pay more for it than Europeans.   BC is correct that the US healthcare system does not provide the universal coverage typical in Europe, thus allowing some people to fall through the cracks of general health protection. Those are political issues.     

A global epidemic is not a political issue.  It is not even a general health issue.   It is a public health security issue. 

The US was deemed the highest ranked nation regarding global health security.   Not my opinion but the opinion of an  international advisory panel of 21 experts from 13 countries who made a comprehensive assessment referred to as the Global Health Security  Index. 

Source:  http://www.ghsindex.org/   

The US was ranked the highest with the UK second.  Does that mean we were prepared?  No, because the "GHS Index analysis finds no country is fully prepared for epidemics or pandemics. Collectively, international preparedness is weak. Many countries do not show evidence of the health security capacities and capabilities that are needed to prevent, detect, and respond to significant infectious disease outbreaks."

GHS Index rankings and scores for 195 countries:

            1.  US           83.5
            2.  UK           77.9
            9.  S Korea    70.2
          31.  Italy         56.2
          51.  China       48.2

BC is absolutely correct that the US epidemic testing capability proved inadequate.  However, we addressed and corrected the issue of testing quickly, and are now rolling out a huge expansion. 

Big Picture:  Extensive testing is important, yet not the only weapon used to address an epidemic.  The GHS index considered about 35 different factors, of which lab systems and real time surveillance (not just testing) are two. 
 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 19, 2020, 09:05:25 AM
IMHO every nation that is dealing with this virus crisis healthcare system is stressed and overloaded. None were prepared to treat even a relatively small portion of the entire population from an additional illness on top of what they already serve on a regular basis. Throw in a pandemic and the problems that follow and all hell breaks loose. BC seemingly has had a tone that the US healthcare system is inferior to Italy and other nations. He points to lack of testing but for me that doesn't begin to quantify his position. I do truly believe the US system is likely one of the best in the world. We won't know where in the curve we are until we're at the end of it, will we?

I fail to see exactly HOW universal healthcare is solving and meeting the crisis in Europe today, especially in the richest, highly healthcare rated region of Italy (Lombardy). Reality today is showing it has little value as any other. Sudden and unprecedented epidemic/pandemic will always put unexpected burden on any healthcare institution regardless of system.

It's difficult to make a valid point when one is standing over a crumbling platform that which they're trying to promote.

BC is wholly basing his opinion of US healthcare on the tired ol' talking points. That will never change.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 19, 2020, 09:26:52 AM
FP,

Indeed, every nation facing this crisis will be overloaded.  Consider the comparison points that I bring up not as a direct critique of other systems, but instead thoughts for the future.  This will NOT be the last global pandemic we will face.  Another can appear tomorrow.  Although bad, we are fortunate thus far that this virus is not many times more deadly as it is.

One of the difficulties we have as Americans (myself included) is our feeling of being somehow exceptional, often disregarding experiences of other countries by sticking labels on them such as 'socialist' turning us into a nation of ignorant naysayers.

I'm not going to say our healthcare system in the US is inferior, but surely can appreciate the advantages of other healthcare systems that come to light during such crisis. 

The 'curve' is a measure, but not one of success.

I do see advantages with universal type healthcare systems.  All over the globe, folks are getting sick, isolating themselves and laid off work, even here.  What is different in most if not all of Europe is that sick leave is a given and not something that requires new, time-consuming legislation.  folks that are laid off do not lose their healthcare coverage.  They do not have to live in fear of a hospital bill or worse, losing their homes or having to declare bankruptcy.  Deciding whether to go to the doctor or hospital based on how high the bill or copay will be is a totally 'foreign' idea over here.  Being refused treatment or tests at a hospital because my insurer is not part of their 'system' would be considered absurd here but is happening back home.  Take an unconscious patient arriving at a hospital in the US.  What is the patient's history?  What are the pre-existing conditions, what recent treatment has he/she received recently?  Here, much of that data is readily available with the card we all carry.  Being more centralized, the 'system' can make better and faster overall decisions.  It may not be perfect but decisionmakers have a LOT more information here to work with that makes it helpful to try and 'stay ahead of the curve'.

The way I see it, our 'exceptionalism' is killing us - literally and financially.  The bill will be high in Italy, but for the most part, will get what they pay for a lot quicker.

I could go on and on...  Hopefully a few here will get the gist of what I'm trying to say in my posts.

Maybe I'm wrong, so please do let me know of any advantages you see with remaining one of the very few highly industrialized and wealthy nations in the world without universal healthcare is beneficial, especially in times such as we are now living.

BC,

A lot has been learned from the spread of this virus already, on the medical front. I expect before it's over with a lot more will have been learned as well. Probably much more than we have to date. There is ample pros and cons for either socialized medicine or single pay. Every nation that has dealt with covid to date has been caught unprepared and that doesn't mean whatever system they have is better or worse than the other. The number of administered is only a marker on the bigger scale. We're not in disagreement here overall more so just portions. Your opinion is based on your experience as mine is from mine.

Because a system is funded, labeled socialized healthcare doesn't in anyway make it superior. Apparently it's the quality of healthcare that concerns me whereas you seem to hold quantity is higher esteem. For me, yes, everyone should have availability to health care and a doctor for quality healthcare, full stop. How it gets paid for is not the measurement. Healthcare isn't a right in this country but, it is available to all who seek it. Depending on the need and prior preparedness , lifestyles could change.

I can give you an example as my MIL recently passed away in Russia's socialized healthcare due to a heart valve but mostly "because" she was 93. We paid for her cardiologist and was prepared to pay for a procedure to fix it. The doctors provided would not even discuss her operation because of her age and her 50/50 chance of surviving the procedure. The long and short of it is, she died while waiting for an operation date which never came. This was over the course of about 8 months. The cardiologist was ready willing and able to do it because she was going to die without it. She simply was not giving the green light for hospital OR because of her age. In the US this would have been performed
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 19, 2020, 09:35:39 AM
Coronavirus well & truely in Ukraine now:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/amp/2020/03/19/as-ukraine-shuts-down-its-citizens-come-to-terms-with-coronavirus

There at the beginning cases of it all but many are apparently already self isolating and flights into Ukraine have been stopped.

Currently 16 cases with two woman with passing away from it, a 71 yr old and a 33 yr old:

http://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/coronavirus-in-ukraine-16-cases-including-member-of-parliament.html?cn-reloaded=1
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 19, 2020, 09:37:02 AM
On the economic side of this, they are expecting massive unemployment in nearly every aspect of our working population. This morning it is reported new unemployment claims had already reached 20%.

The price of oil right now is at $22.00/bbl.

Crazy times...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 19, 2020, 10:01:03 AM
Remember the H1N1 bug that was going around in 2009-2010?
I posted a joke about it

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_IM_EmrePYwQ/Sf2HGnas4jI/AAAAAAAAEwM/5z_HnBmI4b0/pic13485_thumb%5B2%5D.jpg?imgmax=800)

300K Americans were hospitalized. 60 million Americans infected.
12,469 Americans died. There wasn’t any media panic. The Republican
Party did not politicize it at all. Nobody said that O'Bummer wanted
people to die.

What a difference Trump Derangement Syndrome is. What a difference
if we have a Lefty president like Barry O. The left is HAPPY to wreck the
economy if they can blame Trump.


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 19, 2020, 10:05:58 AM
Putin said he was hoping to ruin fracking by refusing OPEC requests.   Well, my guess is that fracking is finished for the time being.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 19, 2020, 10:23:02 AM
….
300K Americans were hospitalized. 60 million Americans infected.
12,469 Americans died. There wasn’t any media panic. The Republican
Party did not politicize it at all. Nobody said that O'Bummer wanted
people to die.

What a difference Trump Derangement Syndrome is. What a difference
if we have a Lefty president like Barry O. The left is HAPPY to wreck the
economy if they can blame Trump.

~ Never let a good crisis go to waste ~ (http://freebeacon.com/issues/never-let-a-crisis-go-to-waste-democrats-cite-wuhan-virus-to-push-longstanding-policy-priorities/)  R. Emmanuel

If you look at what made the current $1.2 trillion stimulus bill the current administration is trying to do to help in this current crisis, you'll see that many liberal initiatives being inserted in exchange for their approval. It's madness! Abortion, universal sick leave, and a whole stew of non-related matters into the bill just to prevent delay in passing the bill.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 19, 2020, 10:59:35 AM
Trump has said a malaria drug, perhaps like the one used to treat Coronavirus out in India, is effective at treating the virus:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-03-19/trump-touts-malaria-drug-as-potential-coronavirus-treatment

If so, even if it is not a full vaccine it could mean that countries such as the UK & US suffer a lot less from the Coronavirus than countries where it spread quicker and earlier such as China and mainland western Europe.

If existing drugs like this can start being used in the next few days & weeks then not only may it save many lives but we may also avoid a lot of the economic damage that mainland western Europe is suffering.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 19, 2020, 11:47:27 AM
Trump has said a malaria drug, perhaps like the one used to treat Coronavirus out in India, is effective at treating the virus:

Posted earlier.  Chloroquine in use since the 1930s. 



Quote
If so, even if it is not a full vaccine it could mean that countries such as the UK & US suffer a lot less from the Coronavirus than countries where it spread quicker and earlier such as China and mainland western Europe.

Full vaccine?  It is a therapeutic drug, totally different from vaccine. 

Yes, if it is effective in treating COVID-19 infections, that would be a huge blessing.  Probability of success - likely around 30%. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 19, 2020, 11:49:39 AM
No one posted has yet posted this good news from NY Times

"For the first time since the crisis began, China today reported no new local infections for the previous 24 hours. Experts have said at least 14 straight days without new infections are needed for the outbreak to be considered over.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 19, 2020, 11:52:13 AM
No one posted has yet posted this good news from NY Times

"For the first time since the crisis began, China today reported no new local infections for the previous 24 hours. Experts have said at least 14 straight days without new infections are needed for the outbreak to be considered over.

Lots of dead dogs.    :'(
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 19, 2020, 11:56:28 AM
look fellas...
stop clinging to your denial...

the fall in the stock market is inversely proportional
to the rise in the infection rate for covid-19 in the USA...

as the infection rate tries to get to infinity...
the DOW tries to get to NEGATIVE INFINITY...

the slope of the virus crash, is ALREADY STEEPER than the crash of 29.....
no matter how many trillions are gonna get injected...
it will fall by 90% this year....

I bought treasuries...
cuz they will be the last domino to fall before I have to dig up the gold...
next year, gold will be too valuable for trading, because it's worth too much...
if you dropped a Krueger Rand down on the table at the trading post, you'd cause a freaking riot complete with gun play, and your ass would get kicked out of the trading post real fast for being such a putz!
so be smart, and go in the back and swap it for silver, then pay 10 pieces of silver for your boxes of food in the front!
ignore the teenage girls offering to give you oral sex for one piece of silver in the back of the trading post
it's a "setup" watch your back, only stay up front and you and your buddies watch each other's backs the whole time
and freakin look like you know how to use the weapons you have strapped on...

if I were y'all I'd kill some evil hearted loner early to establish a ' 'rep...
bullies avoid someone with a 'rep

 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 19, 2020, 12:36:21 PM
No one posted has yet posted this good news from NY Times

"For the first time since the crisis began, China today reported no new local infections for the previous 24 hours. Experts have said at least 14 straight days without new infections are needed for the outbreak to be considered over.

For them that is indeed good news. In general it does show the virus could be potentially beatable by severe self isolation. Still some time for China to wait on. However, there problem was that around 34 people returned to China in the same day with the virus so risking a secondary re-infection of the nation. Looks like long term a vaccine or at least some medication that much lessens the impact is the only way to more efficiently sort out this virus.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 19, 2020, 12:51:04 PM
I was informed that non-essential federal offices will be closing tomorrow.

Well I, for one, am not surprised there are such offices deemed 'non-essential' in the federal level.

So in the spirit of expediency, let's hope they never open again so we can get rid of them altogether, yes? We can start with the 116th US Congress.

Quote from: Gator
No one posted has yet posted this good news from NY Times

That is good news. But I am even more glad to see no one died in Italy today. Especially on the heels of suffering from a near 500 fatalities yesterday.

edit: Oh WOW! Just like that, update reports 427 new deaths in Italy! 34 new cases in China...As of right now, Italy surpassed China's death toll!!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 19, 2020, 01:12:37 PM
Boris today in his daily briefing reckoned the UK would have the Coronavirus on the run in some form or another in about 12 weeks.

I think with medications in development good stuff can be done but I am dubious that it will on its way out in 12 weeks. I reckon there will still be significant restrictions then. What do others think on this?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 19, 2020, 01:18:27 PM
No one posted has yet posted this good news from NY Times

"For the first time since the crisis began, China today reported no new local infections for the previous 24 hours. Experts have said at least 14 straight days without new infections are needed for the outbreak to be considered over.

I'm just curious..... with how many times the Chinese Government has lied to us over the last five months, you really think they're telling the truth now?   Yes, I think we should absolutely trust them.   Especially since they are rounding up all of the Western Reporters and deporting them. 

I wouldn't trust the Chinese Government if they were promising $1000 to every adult in the land.   Oops.  That's our government.  (Cringe!)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 19, 2020, 01:54:25 PM
Italy's Guiseppi Remuzzi said: (http://www.npr.org/2020/03/19/817974987/every-single-individual-must-stay-home-italy-s-coronavirus-deaths-pass-china-s)

Quote
Remuzzi says he is now hearing information about it from general practitioners. "They remember having seen very strange pneumonia, very severe, particularly in old people in December and even November," he says. "This means that the virus was circulating, at least in [the northern region of] Lombardy and before we were aware of this outbreak occurring in China."

WTF?! Is it possible then that the origin of this virus is from Italy and not China?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 19, 2020, 02:05:23 PM
Without clear disclosure from the Chinese, of which I am absolutely certain we will never receive, we will never know who, exactly, this woman named Typhoid Mary really is.

But, if it turns out that there were multiple outbreak points at places across the globe, I can tell you that I, personally, do not believe in such coincidence.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 19, 2020, 02:14:46 PM
Italy's Guiseppi Remuzzi said: (http://www.npr.org/2020/03/19/817974987/every-single-individual-must-stay-home-italy-s-coronavirus-deaths-pass-china-s)

WTF?! Is it possible then that the origin of this virus is from Italy and not China?

That's wild and something to think about. In late Dec and early Jan I contracted something I considered the "crud" as I had the 4 way flu shot. I was sure (at the time) it wasn't the flu because of the shot. For 10-12 days I felt like death warmed over. I literally dry coughed all day and night for 6 of those days. It started in my throat and stayed there. . I had a constant bad headache like I had a fever but the thermometer never showed more than 99. My SIL had it before mine was over, then the wife and then my daughter. My SIL who is a doctor said he believes we either had it or something very close to it. Other than the high fever, we had all the symptoms
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 19, 2020, 02:27:40 PM
Exploring the plausibility. Wuhan, as many of you already know, is where 40% of global supplies originate...a whole lot of consumer goods are made or assembled, and shipped from, Wuhan.

What this mean is, it is central to global commerce and people from anywhere come and congregate in this region. Italy's commerce central, Milan (Lombardy region) is one of them. The US is certainly chief amongst them, too.

FP, how are you feeling now? Your family? Any of you qualified to get tested?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 19, 2020, 02:58:58 PM
TOM HANKS - ONE TOUGH YANK!
 
Tom Hanks survived for four years on an island as a castaway.
He spent a year in an airport, without being able to leave it.
Caught AIDS in Philadelphia.
He was in World War II and rescued Private Ryan.
He went to Vietnam and rescued Lieutenant Dan.
Was on a boat kidnapped by Somali pirates.
Survived Apollo 13 trying to reach the moon.
Landed a Boeing on the Hudson River.
If this son-of-a-bitch dies of coronavirus, we are all screwed!!!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 19, 2020, 03:16:11 PM
Maybe he should've gotten more sleep in Seattle.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 19, 2020, 03:36:40 PM
As of right now, Italy surpassed China's death toll!!

Could well be down to the temperature & humidity levels in Italy. It's been advanced by some that countries like Italy & Spain are fairing badly compared to other countries in the world because their current climate at this time of year is ver conducive to climate spread. If so BC could have made a bad call in staying, could be a vicious downward spiral.

Here I personally don't think there is quite the escalation in cases & deaths as in Italy. By now we should be knee high in it but there doesn't as yet seem the sharp upswing, just a continuing gradual upswing. Worst of as expected is London but even there matters could be worse. It's expected London will be first to go into lockdown, possibly next week or so. I don't think the rest of the country will unless it suddenly gets sharply worse.

A lot of people are now working from home and business and I individuals are looking to adjust. This might keep the wolves from the door for a bit longer.


Though that all said we are on the early stages of the steep upswing. Up 643 cases today in the UK so it is rising significantly day on day. So it looks like we are at Italy's stage from a few weeks ago, shortly before lockdown:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8130219/amp/The-victims-claimed-coronavirus-Northern-Ireland-records-death.html

Think the UK government are going to have to move fast on this one.

Only plus is in Dorset where I am at present cases are still at just 6 in total.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on March 19, 2020, 03:38:41 PM
No one posted has yet posted this good news from NY Times

"For the first time since the crisis began, China today reported no new local infections for the previous 24 hours. Experts have said at least 14 straight days without new infections are needed for the outbreak to be considered over.

I totally cannot understand this.

China has a billion and a half people spread over a fairly  large area.
Corona started in one area, and may be slowing in that one area.

However, it has got to be spreading into other areas of China.

If Corona can go from China to other countries, it can certainly go from one area of China to another.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 19, 2020, 04:53:58 PM
I totally cannot understand this.

China has a billion and a half people spread over a fairly  large area.
Corona started in one area, and may be slowing in that one area.

However, it has got to be spreading into other areas of China.

If Corona can go from China to other countries, it can certainly go from one area of China to another.

But, but ..... China's state controlled media always tells the truth.  How can there be any doubt?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 19, 2020, 04:55:49 PM
Think this one through, folks.   China's economy is down over 17% from two months ago.   They are kicking out anyone who will say things differently than the state controlled media.   And now they come out with statement that the virus is under control. 

Everyone who believes them, raise their hands!!!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on March 19, 2020, 05:47:14 PM
Some info here about making your own masks:

http://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-materials-make-diy-face-mask-virus/
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 19, 2020, 05:50:23 PM
Think this one through, folks.   China's economy is down over 17% from two months ago.   They are kicking out anyone who will say things differently than the state controlled media.   And now they come out with statement that the virus is under control. 

Everyone who believes them, raise their hands!!!

I find it astonishingly quick that they have managed to turn around such a situation do quickly from a rampant virulent out of control virus to virtually an extinct virus. In the past when totalitarian regimes have bullshi*tted it usually meant the opposite was true if human life was at stake. So it could well be that people are dropping out there at an even more I incredibly fast rate than ever.

If Italy is having no joy so far with its lockdown what are the chances China is do much better even if with a more strict lockdown.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: rwd123 on March 19, 2020, 06:08:27 PM
Italy's Guiseppi Remuzzi said: (http://www.npr.org/2020/03/19/817974987/every-single-individual-must-stay-home-italy-s-coronavirus-deaths-pass-china-s)

WTF?! Is it possible then that the origin of this virus is from Italy and not China?
Comprehension gap.

He's not stating that the virus originated in Lombardy. He is stating that because the CCP are corrupt psychotic powermongers they didn't communicate the existence of the virus when it broke out in November last year.

Given people travel between China and Italy on a regular basis, the virus was probably spreading in Italy before the Chinese acknowledged the outbreak in January.

The virus clearly originated in Wuhan. It probably escaped a laboratory. It was possibly linked to CCP military R&D.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 19, 2020, 06:25:38 PM
I find it astonishingly quick that they have managed to turn around such a situation do quickly from a rampant virulent out of control virus to virtually an extinct virus. In the past when totalitarian regimes have bullshi*tted it usually meant the opposite was true if human life was at stake. So it could well be that people are dropping out there at an even more I incredibly fast rate than ever.

If Italy is having no joy so far with its lockdown what are the chances China is do much better even if with a more strict lockdown.

You missed the post by another poster.   His name was sarcasm.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 19, 2020, 07:17:12 PM
status report from Houston, Texas...

supply level of food in supermarkets has decreased by 25% each day over the last two days

what that means is, the amount of groceries you used to able to buy in one trip, just two days ago,
now requires 2 trips, because of “limits” or “restrictions” on how much you can buy...

I’ll check tomorrow, to see whether it remains at the same 1/2 amount from two days ago, or drops another 25%

I don’t want my daughters shopping during the weekends, because I think it will be more crowded and dangerous

One way to get the best shopping results, is to show up 30 minutes before they open and be on the first ones in

when the government tells all non-essential workers to stay home
the next day will be the first day with long lines at the super market
that means you have to spend half a day to get 2 days of food for your family
and be surrounded by dozens of sick people

here in Houston, I predict this day will happen on some time between next Monday and next Wednesday, at this time, it would be pretty useless to try and get food and increasingly dangerous


the virus rate here in Houston is sky rocketing at 50% increaser per day and first local to local infections were reported yesterday
it means the infection rate is actually WAY higher than what people believe because of LACK of testing hasn’t shown us a big enough sample size, only people who “think” they’re sick
we’re not testing healthy people, we don’t have enough tests for that

my wife and I are already in semi-quarantine, we don’t go out in public...
only our kids, who are both teens and can drive...

my daughters will only be allowed to shop for just maybe one more day
and then we are all going into full quarantine
until the military starts handing out meals here locally...

Walking Dead
Season 1, Episode 1
the only difference will be, our world won’t have zombies
just bodies
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 19, 2020, 07:23:28 PM
No one posted has yet posted this good news from NY Times

"For the first time since the crisis began, China today reported no new local infections for the previous 24 hours. Experts have said at least 14 straight days without new infections are needed for the outbreak to be considered over.

I read about it but it's probably propaganda. No new infections among 1.4 billion people. Got to give news to give their people hope the same we are flooded with news of vaccines and treatments are coming soon. Italy passes China in deaths and in the end will have many times more deaths than China. China has severely under reported the whole time and gave everybody the impression this virus wasn't dangerous. They could've helped saved lives and prevent damage by warning the world earlier about how dangerous the virus is. Our nations will pay a big price for a long time because we aren't willing to lock down people the way China does. China will come out on top with less damage to itself. I'm sure a conspiracy theory will come out to say they released in on their people on purpose which in turn will spread it to other nations knowing full well they have an advantage in managing the virus in their country.

America won't be hit as hard as European nations. Our cases per million people is in the dozens while European nations have hundreds of people per million infected. Hospitals are not overwhelmed. Trump's early actions saved lives. The problem will last months if not years though. The more I think about it, the more I understand how smart our government is. Going into an immediate and full lockdown like Italy did is hard on people but necessary in emergency situations. We aren't in an emergency situation but our government took appropriate action before they send us into self isolation. First they announce a ban on 250 people. Some people panic shop but not all people do. Stores have a few days to restock shelves until the next announcement of bans on groups of 50. More panic shopping but not everybody participates. Stores have time to stock shelves. The news will get bad enough eventually for all people to do their shopping and have enough items at home to last a month or two. At that point our government can order businesses to completely shut down and tell everybody to self isolate. We will have almost complete control over the virus but we will see the virus again because some knuckleheads will not obey the rules and continue to carry it after the lockdown is lifted. Periodic outbreaks and lockdowns will be a way of life until we get 100% participation.

Here's another example of a Communist Asian country lying big time. Article below says Vietnam adding 60,000 isolation beds yet they report only 85 infections, 16 recoveries and zero deaths! They are right next door to China. My mom reads Vietnamese social media and she says posters in Vietnam are praising their government for protecting them. American Vietnamese are posting the Vietnamese government is lying to it's citizens and there is a lot of arguing going on between Vietnamese on both sides of the pond.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/vietnam-military-increasing-isolation-housing-to-60000-beds/ar-BB11o1XO?ocid=spartanntp

Found a link that describes death/mortality/case fatality rate that agrees with the formula I talked about earlier. Italy is currently experiencing a 40% case fatality rate which is huge. Notice the numbers below for worldwide and then cases outside of China. Big difference and another sign China lied about how lethal the virus was. 

CFR = deaths / (deaths + recovered)

which, with the latest data available, would be equal to:

 10,031 / (10,031 + 87,408) = 10% CFR (worldwide)

If we now exclude cases in mainland China, using current data on deaths and recovered cases, we get:

6,786 / (6,786 + 16,988) = 28.5% CFR (outside of mainland China)

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/#who-report-02-20

I went to another jobsite today. There was no tp in the honey bucket. I wasn't there to drop the kids off at the pool. I was there to pee. I try to make sure I do my #2 at home but I carry a pocket full of napkins with me everyday just in case.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 19, 2020, 07:28:26 PM

FP, how are you feeling now? Your family? Any of you qualified to get tested?

We did not. During that time frame we hadn't even heard of covid and we're fine now. Maybe it wasn't but it was a very different illness. SIL believes it's no coincidence and he's well respected in his field which is not virus or infectious diease
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 19, 2020, 07:31:24 PM
Remember the H1N1 bug that was going around in 2009-2010? I posted a joke about it

300K Americans were hospitalized. 60 million Americans infected. 12,469 Americans died. There wasn’t any media panic. The Republican Party did not politicize it at all. Nobody said that O'Bummer wanted
people to die.

What a difference Trump Derangement Syndrome is. What a difference if we have a Lefty president like Barry O. The left is HAPPY to wreck the economy if they can blame Trump.

I haven't been following the politics around this, but I doubt anyone is happy about a bad effect on the economy.  The effect is not confined to the US, either.

You are comparing apples and oranges.  Working from memory, H1N1 was spread from the US globally, and it was discovered very early, within days of the first case.  You are also taking statistics for the entire year, and those cases are after epidemeologists adjusted the number of H1N1 illnesses and deaths years after the event.

I totally cannot understand this.

China has a billion and a half people spread over a fairly  large area.
Corona started in one area, and may be slowing in that one area.

However, it has got to be spreading into other areas of China.

If Corona can go from China to other countries, it can certainly go from one area of China to another.

It can, and probably did.  However, China can stop it in ways Western countries can't, as easily.  China enforced social distancing.  Anyone on the street was removed by police.  They could be arrested and jailed for years on end.  Meanwhile, here, people have been asked to practice social distancing/isolation, to only go out for necessities, but it's voluntary, and not everyone is adhering.  Even if it were made illegal to be out on the street, the penalty here would not be severe, maybe a conditional discharge (no criminal record) or a week or two of house arrest, which means one can go to work and grocery shopping.  It's just not comparable.  Can you imagine college students in China partying on a beach when their president has suggested they stay at home to stop the spread of the virus?

Obviously, I don't know the truth in China.  However, I believe it very plausible that the Chinese government was/is willing impose draconian measures to stop the spread of the virus.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 19, 2020, 08:04:59 PM
Think this one through, folks.   China's economy is down over 17% from two months ago.   They are kicking out anyone who will say things differently than the state controlled media.   And now they come out with statement that the virus is under control. 

Everyone who believes them, raise their hands!!!
Quit 'worrying' about china....we (The US) have our own issues.  China had the ability to keep their population in line and perhaps could control the spread.  We in the US have been disobeying and spreading it all over the place, that is our own fault.  Now unfortunately the chips must fall where they may. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 19, 2020, 08:16:27 PM
China had the ability to keep their population in line and perhaps could control the spread. 


Although is seems Italy got it worse than China, I look back on history and still believe China still had it worse than Italy although they reported just over 3000 deaths.

Wuhan is a city of 11 million people. Before the government lockdown in Wuhan happened, people were already in panic about the killer virus and 5 million people fled before the lockdown. It's pretty bad if the people had to act on their own before the government felt it needed to take action. I'm certain many of those 5 million people were infected. Where did they go? Mostly all over China. If some had money, they flew to other nations since anywhere in China was unsafe. There was gross negligence by China early on in fighting the virus. The world will pay a heavy price for their mistakes. Even if we get the virus stopped in America, we need to keep our borders closed to prevent the virus from coming back in. It could be years before we let tourists back into our nation. I have a feeling Africa is going to get hit extremely hard in lives more than economy while it will be the opposite for us. We are in the beginning of a decline that could last years.

http://www.businessinsider.com/5-million-left-wuhan-before-coronavirus-quarantine-2020-1
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 19, 2020, 08:21:45 PM
none of the geezers on this board are gonna have to worry about China
only THEIR CHILDREN!!!
China can lose 100 million, so what?

what if they buy Intel and Boeing stock for pennies
and a major part of US farmland
and THEN...
they start...
keeping your grandchildren in herds and injecting them with drugs to drastically lower their IQ's
to make them docile and easier to handle...
for their brief walk up the gangway on the way to the slaughterhouse

your grandchildren's futures, rednecks...
some are gonna end up being food
unless you idiots teach them some god damned common sense
while you're still alive...

you feel me folks?




 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 19, 2020, 08:37:33 PM
I thought Gavin Newsome's speech was good.  He is ordering a lockdown of all of california now except for essential services. I think it will be ignored by many since he made a point of it being a 'social contract' and the national guard will only be there for humanitarian type services.    Once the order is ignored by many, I suspect it will turn into a law enforcement issue and the entire state, and perhaps nation will be locked down for real.   With the current situation, my daughter thinks I'm exempt under essential distribution of hardware, but I'm not seeing that in writing.  My intent is to go into shop until further clarification. 



Fathertime!

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 19, 2020, 08:53:41 PM

......Can you imagine college students in China partying on a beach when their president has suggested they stay at home to stop the spread of the virus?


I caught report of a news interview with an American student in Wuhan.  People are still self-isolating at their residence.  The student showed how the police had erected a security fence around her apartment building - only one portal to enter and exit. 


Quote
... I believe it very plausible that the Chinese government was/is willing impose draconian measures to stop the spread of the virus.

Yes, China has a totalitarian government.  It is more than that.  The Chinese culture focuses on the collective whole.  In the West, for sure in America, we are more about individualism. 

I would suggest the Chinese are compliant with the shutdown not in fear of the police, but because 1) it is the government  rule and 2) it is an obviously effective way to prevent the virus from spreading.   

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 19, 2020, 08:55:19 PM

http://www.businessinsider.com/5-million-left-wuhan-before-coronavirus-quarantine-2020-1


Article said 5 million people left Wuhan, a city with 11 million people, before the lockdown but 9 million were locked down. That means China allowed 3 million into the virus infected city before the lockdown. Article below says Wuhan is #4 in the top destinations for New Years travel. My uncle's train full of tourists were not allowed to enter Wuhan in the middle of November 2019. Wonder why.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2065264/chinas-massive-lunar-new-year-travel-rush-where-are-they-going

Imagine if things go so bad in LA that almost half the citizens flee for their own safety before Trump decides to take action and to top it off, Trump allowed 3 million people into LA before ordering the lockdown. Will he receive as much praise as China did by WHO?

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 19, 2020, 09:00:09 PM
krimster’s the first!
beats ML to “new” economic apocalypse shopping principle

Shopping Return Value per can = number of cans per trip times virus growth rate percentage increase from the day before...

so as  number of cans per trip declines by 25% per day and and the number of infected people you come into contact in the store is growing at the rate of 50% per day....
the Shopping Return value per can
gets smaller and smaller

next week, in Houston, the Shopping Return Value per can
is gonna get REALLY, REALLY small...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 19, 2020, 09:18:09 PM
Comprehension gap.

He's not stating that the virus originated in Lombardy. He is stating that because the CCP are corrupt psychotic powermongers they didn't communicate the existence of the virus when it broke out in November last year.

Given people travel between China and Italy on a regular basis, the virus was probably spreading in Italy before the Chinese acknowledged the outbreak in January.

The virus clearly originated in Wuhan. It probably escaped a laboratory. It was possibly linked to CCP military R&D.

Dr Remuzzi said information were being shared within about severe cases of pneumonia in Lombardy as far back as November. The first clue of a novel virus in China was 12/10, roughly the time our homegrown virus we call the Democrats were busy impeaching a duly elected president. By 12/31 China informed WHO about mysterious pneumonia cases as they closed their wet markets the same day. By Mid-January the first coronavirus was recorded in Seattle Washington. China, by then, were building hospitals in 10 days. By the end of January, Trump placed a ban on any incoming traveler from China. Italy didn’t follow until two weeks later.

It seem rather strange to me, if not downright irresponsible, Italian healthcare professionals who had spoken of ‘strange severe cases of pneumonia’ as far back as November, didn’t even bothered to connect the dots earlier than they did. Healthcare in Lombardy region was nationally highly regarded in Italy.

This was over a month ago. 2 days after they called Trump a racist for closing our border from Chinese traveler.

http://youtu.be/lULceASXv88

This is Italy today.

http://youtu.be/-iUFskknWNs
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 19, 2020, 09:30:40 PM
I thought Gavin Newsome's speech was good.  He is ordering a lockdown of all of california now except for essential services. I think it will be ignored by many since he made a point of it being a 'social contract' and the national guard will only be there for humanitarian type services.    Once the order is ignored by many, I suspect it will turn into a law enforcement issue and the entire state, and perhaps nation will be locked down for real.   With the current situation, my daughter thinks I'm exempt under essential distribution of hardware, but I'm not seeing that in writing.  My intent is to go into shop until further clarification. 

Fathertime!

Dammit. I’ve a meeting in San Diego tomorrow! My wife just received an internal emailed memo from corporate telling them all SoCal offices are closed until further notice to abide by the state mandate. She’d worked from home all this week. They have the option as a policy anyway and differently from us.

Shoot I’m thinking I should still go and meet with my client.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on March 19, 2020, 09:50:24 PM
Dammit. I’ve a meeting in San Diego tomorrow! My wife just received an internal emailed memo from corporate telling them all SoCal offices are closed until further notice to abide by the state mandate. She’d worked from home all this week. They have the option as a policy anyway and differently from us.

Shoot I’m thinking I should still go and meet with my client.

Shoot, why not. You may be one of a few to be on the road, be outnumbered by police 10-1, but you'll get to SD in 90 minutes!!!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 19, 2020, 09:52:14 PM
I went to another jobsite today. There was no tp in the honey bucket. I wasn't there to drop the kids off at the pool. I was there to pee. I try to make sure I do my #2 at home but I carry a pocket full of napkins with me everyday just in case.

This is crazy 😝 two of my foremen already told me that toilet papers were disappearing from their porties, too! The GC had to start issuing memos and had to make it a subject in their tailgates.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 19, 2020, 10:26:41 PM
if I were an unemployed teenager...
right now, I'd take a backpack
and go to every public toilette in a one mile radius and steal every damned roll I could find
google could probably help you locate each one
before the next person does...

but I don't have to to do that...
ya know why?
I became a Charmin toilet paper distributor less than 2 weeks ago,
and I pay my local rep 30% over list price under the table in cash straight to him
to put my order at the top of the list....
but probably after tomorrow, I won't be able to place another order until the end of next week!
it means the factory is having a supply chain problem somewhere...

so...
that brings up the issue of how I'm gonna sell this...

at this point my only cost for selling this on ebay, is the amount of time it takes for my daughters to process an order
I timed their performance in the warehouse of picking and packing 4 32-roll packs
vrs
picking and packing 100 32 roll packs...

my daughters can make about $400 per hour for selling 4 packs of 32 rolls on ebay working a 6 hour day
but over $2000 per hour selling hundred packs of 32 rolls on ebay working a 6 hour day!
golly!

so that's what it's gonna be then!
my daughters are gonna sell lots of Qty. 100 of 32 roll packs or 3200 rolls total
on ebay with an opening bid of $3200 with a 6 day bid expiration....
I'm gonna start the first lot low and watch the bidding
and use that to price the next one
and see how "elastic" the price curve is gonna be on lots of 3200 rolls of toilette paper....

I hope to have my first lot for sale by next week will let you all know here when the bidding starts on any of the upcoming lots that I will announce here

'spossiba moy duzya

PS, if you think about it, if the bidding doesn't get TOO crazy, then this is actually a good investment...
selling toilette paper is a lot like buying pot!
you buy a large quantity and you use some, and sell some yourself
and the profit you make
basically makes your toilette paper FREE TO YOU!!!!

this is the kinda deal I'm offering you guys next week on ebay!!!
OK???!!!

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 19, 2020, 11:17:24 PM
did you freakin see this?

"http://www.cnn.com/2020/03/19/us/california-coronavirus-stay-home-order/index.html

"...after Newsom warned that more than half the state is projected to be infected with the virus in two months. "

which is weird, because, that's also the kinda number that I'm coming up with....
rednecks get it yet?

it's what I HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU

do you guys even KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS IS GONNA HAPPEN IN JUST TWO MONTHS, LET ALONE AFTER....
DON'T YOU AT LONG LAST GET IT YET????!!!!

the mayor of San Francisco just said, that half the state is gonna get covid-19 by the end of May....
and my calculations show the peak will not be over with YET by then...
and more peaks may be coming....

now do ya'll see what the death rate's gonna be....
JUST in California...

49 other states plus DC, etc....

ya'll STILL don't get it?

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 19, 2020, 11:44:52 PM
By the end of January, Trump placed a ban on any incoming traveler from China. Italy didn’t follow until two weeks later.

It seem rather strange to me, if not downright irresponsible, Italian healthcare professionals who had spoken of ‘strange severe cases of pneumonia’ as far back as November, didn’t even bothered to connect the dots earlier than they did. Healthcare in Lombardy region was nationally highly regarded in Italy.


GQ,

Is the information in the article below wrong?

Quote
Italy imposed a ban on flights from China on 31 January, immediately after a Chinese couple in Rome tested positive for the virus. The U.S. began to restrict flights from China four days later. But while Italy enacted a full ban, the U.S. policy was only a restriction, with wide exemptions.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeating/2020/03/12/italy-banned-flights-from-china-before-americait-didnt-work/

I also caught a very nasty case of respiratory flu or whatever in February.  Was pretty bad. Worst case I can remember. Was it Coronavirus?  Maybe, maybe not.

It certainly is possible with millions of travellers from all over the world that it was here before WHO provided testing capabilities for this virus. I'd say almost certain. Up north the first confirmed cases were some folks that were doing a bit of travelling between Germany and Italy.  Surely at the time, there were other undetected cases.  Would not be surprising considering the incubation time and many that may not even have exhibited symptoms.  A huge amount of tourists come here, especially in the north.  Airports get really crowded here and Milan is one of the largest hubs for international travel.




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 20, 2020, 02:24:48 AM

Found a link that describes death/mortality/case fatality rate that agrees with the formula I talked about earlier. Italy is currently experiencing a 40% case fatality rate which is huge. Notice the numbers below for worldwide and then cases outside of China. Big difference and another sign China lied about how lethal the virus was. 

CFR = deaths / (deaths + recovered)

which, with the latest data available, would be equal to:

 10,031 / (10,031 + 87,408) = 10% CFR (worldwide)

If we now exclude cases in mainland China, using current data on deaths and recovered cases, we get:

6,786 / (6,786 + 16,988) = 28.5% CFR (outside of mainland China)

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/#who-report-02-20

I went to another jobsite today. There was no tp in the honey bucket. I wasn't there to drop the kids off at the pool. I was there to pee. I try to make sure I do my #2 at home but I carry a pocket full of napkins with me everyday just in case.

Billy,

refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_fatality_rate

In the hardest hit region as of last night:

7387 hospitalized
3778 discharged
2168 deaths

That's a Hospitalized CFR of around 30% but still just a guesstimate.  Not known is how many critical care and other patients were moved from north to nearby areas.  In the 'state' where I live, Hospitalized CFR is currently around 15% or thereabouts today. Were intensive care cases moved down here from up north for capacity reasons?  Pretty likely but again an unknown factor at least in the data I have available.

Keep in mind that CFR (using whatever same population group) is only a momentary figure, it rises as cases come in, peaks a few weeks after the peak infection (most cases that die are those in intensive care which is reportedly averaging 3 weeks) sticks around for a while and drops when it's over.  Only then can CFR be calculated with any accuracy.

There are so many variables not considered here, like the number of deaths that were not hospitalized as some folks may prefer to stay home and pass with family around (which is impossible in the hospital) 

Doesn't make much sense at this time to give too much weight to the numbers except to try and gauge where we might be in an unknown cycle based on the number of those tested (assuming they were severe enough to go to hospital or their doctor authorized testing)

Sure, there was a big jump in national figures yesterday with the number of infections, but also more than twice the number of tests reported in as the days before..

Number of tests    New
reported per day   cases  %
14 March 11477    3497  30
15 March 11682    3590  30
16 March 15729    3233  20
17 March 13065    3526  26
18 March 10695    4207  39
19 March 34120    5322  15

As best as I can figure with a simple average, in Italy approximately 26% of those getting tested were positive.  This surprisingly correlates with CDC results for the US using today's figures from:

http://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/testing-in-us.html and http://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html

Will other figures end up coming close as well?  I hope not but it is simply too early to tell. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 20, 2020, 02:46:04 AM
Krim,

The shortage of TP is momentary.  There always was enough TP for everyone to have a supply.  Manufacturing and shipping of TP have not stopped.  As soon as folks have their fill, demand will drop and shelves will be full again and like others, you will have enough TP for aeons you can't get rid of and paid a premium for.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 20, 2020, 03:01:06 AM
Although is seems Italy got it worse than China, I look back on history and still believe China still had it worse than Italy although they reported just over 3000 deaths.

Wuhan is a city of 11 million people. Before the government lockdown in Wuhan happened, people were already in panic about the killer virus and 5 million people fled before the lockdown. It's pretty bad if the people had to act on their own before the government felt it needed to take action. I'm certain many of those 5 million people were infected. Where did they go? Mostly all over China.

IIRC Hubei province was cut off, not only the city of Wuhan.  Look at the Johns Hopkins map, neighbouring provinces had far fewer cases, less than 1000 each compared to 67,000.  This is pretty similar to the hotspot counties in Northern Italy vs other areas to the south.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 20, 2020, 03:33:34 AM
SC called in a panic at 02:30  as her flight from BKK ( Bangkok)  with Etihad via Abu Dhabi was cancelled.

We checked with the Russian Consulate in her area of Thailand and this was due to the Middle East being considering a risk region.

So, a flight has been booked with Aeroflot, direct to Moscow,..

No quarantine for SC as long as she can prove she was not in an at risk nation ..for 30 days ..


Currently, Thailand is not on that list ..

Took Ma to a local Asda, currently owned my Walmart - as they offered a 'Vulnerable' shopper's time - before 0900 ..

No-one checked to see anyone's status, but most folk seemed to be it the right category ( Carer with vulnerable person)

No pasta, little toilet paper, hand sanitiser or bread /  pasta making ingredients available ...


I guess Trench had been in with his G.Grandmother, already ! ... 






Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 20, 2020, 06:23:47 AM
update from Houston, Texas   3-20-2020  8:00 AM

daughters just came back from supermarket
might be the last day I allow them out
yup, a further 25% decline in items on supermarket shelf
was not restocked from night before
best way to get food now is to find what nights the supermarket restocks and be first in line next morning....

you have less than a week at most before food will be EXTREMELY difficult to get in Houston from super markets

only about 10% of the people are wearing masks and gloves
everyone in China I'm in contact with tells me we should ALL be wearing gloves and masks NOW in the USA!!!!
wake up people!!!

mask is more to prevent people from coughing, sneezing, etc and spreading the germs
because we're NOT testing healthy people we don't realize how BAD the infection already is
by next week we will have more cases than China

it is NOW dangerous to be in public around a group of people
 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 20, 2020, 06:56:49 AM


only about 10% of the people are wearing masks and gloves
everyone in China I'm in contact with tells me we should ALL be wearing gloves and masks NOW in the USA!!!!
wake up people!!!
 
Instead of doing what we should be doing, we will cry about China.  At least for the moment China seems to have got their situation under better control then we (The US) have. 


daughters just came back from supermarket
might be the last day I allow them out
yup, a further 25% decline in items on supermarket shelf
was not restocked from night before
best way to get food now is to find what nights the supermarket restocks and be first in line next morning....

you have less than a week at most before food will be EXTREMELY difficult to get in Houston from super markets

Last night when I went to the grocery market I was surprised to see more food than the day before.  Many items were gone of course, I decided to be a high roller and buy one of the last 12 packs of 'organic brown eggs' at $4.00 a dozen. 
 
I'm going to be very curious to see what the roads look like this morning.  It appears I'm exempt enough to work today, so I will.  I suspect the California stay at home order will be ignored by many. 

Fathertime!   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 20, 2020, 07:00:59 AM
Is the information in the article below wrong?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeating/2020/03/12/italy-banned-flights-from-china-before-americait-didnt-work/


Article is very misleading. As you can see from the article below on January 31 Trump banned all foreign nationals, Chinese or not, from entering America if they been in China. Trump allowed planes to get our citizens and legal permanent residents back and later cancelled flights from China. Europe's mistake was they banned flights, not individuals. So while Italy banned flights from China, a Chinese or foreign national that been in China can still vacation in Italy with a layover in another country and hop another plane or rent a car.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebnikov/2020/01/31/us-declares-coronavirus-a-public-health-emergency-as-major-airlines-suspend-china-travel/#b123751586e4

While America and Italy took different actions, we took it at the same time and we are having very different results. I can see our hospitals aren't overflowing. We don't need test kits to tell us if we're in a crisis or not. Our government did better than other nations and our health care system will not be overloaded as much as Italy's. Unfortunately people from worse off nations will say Trump didn't take proper action although they called his early actions banning foreign nationals from China racist. Italian doctor who said they've run out of gloves has now died from the virus.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/03/20/coronavirus-italy-doctor-dies/

SC called in a panic at 02:30  as her flight from BKK ( Bangkok)  with Etihad via Abu Dhabi was cancelled.

So, a flight has been booked with Aeroflot, direct to Moscow,..


W've been talking about this issue for weeks. Better stop fukcing around and get your wife to her home country. She should've came back to you a long time ago. Eventually we are going to get to a point where governments tell their citizens if they leave the country, they may not be allowed back in. Here's a list of nations with border closures and restrictions.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/coronavirus-travel-restrictions-border-shutdowns-country-200318091505922.html
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 20, 2020, 07:07:35 AM
SC called in a panic at 02:30  as her flight from BKK ( Bangkok)  with Etihad via Abu Dhabi was cancelled.

We checked with the Russian Consulate in her area of Thailand and this was due to the Middle East being considering a risk region.

So, a flight has been booked with Aeroflot, direct to Moscow,..

No quarantine for SC as long as she can prove she was not in an at risk nation ..for 30 days ..


Currently, Thailand is not on that list ..


At this point there will be 'no place like home'.  I'm ultimately going to feel sorry for people who are stranded in a strange place away from home. 


I guess Trench had been in with his G.Grandmother, already ! ... 
Old Trenchcoat's warchest of TP is probably growing further, so the ladies will be soon lining up at his door.  In addition to the feverish shopping, perhaps he is already using leaves so as to protect his stockpile.

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on March 20, 2020, 07:35:00 AM
No early day conference calls today so I ventured out to the BJ's Wholesale Club (think Cosco, Sam's Club). Filled up my gas tank, no line up. The store itself was more crowded than usual, but many people are working from home. There were mostly people older than me in the store. Only saw two mask wearers. So here is what I observed:


- No toilet paper, paper towels, napkins or Kleenex. (Note: I have plenty of each of these items)
- Plenty of everything else, except hand soaps, but they had some (I get this online, so didn't buy any)
- Had fully stocked meat, deli, cheese (forgot to check on eggs)
- Had fully stocked breads, cakes, etc.


This is in Western New York and a fairly populous area. The roads and highways are quiet. People in the store seemed to be keeping the 6 - 10 foot separation, even while waiting in the checkout line. I do self checkout and there was no waiting.


Anecdotal, I know. But it is how things look today in Western New York.


HDL
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 20, 2020, 08:49:54 AM


While America and Italy took different actions, we took it at the same time and we are having very different results. I can see our hospitals aren't overflowing. We don't need test kits to tell us if we're in a crisis or not. Our government did better than other nations and our health care system will not be overloaded as much as Italy's. Unfortunately people from worse off nations will say Trump didn't take proper action although they called his early actions banning foreign nationals from China racist. Italian doctor who said they've run out of gloves has now died from the virus.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/03/20/coronavirus-italy-doctor-dies/ 

Boy, are you and 'Trampu' going to have egg on your faces, soon ... The virus is on your shores ... it WILL spread...  You will be like Italy - or worse, perhaps ... The only think you've got going for you is the size of your nation


W've been talking about this issue for weeks. Better stop fukcing around and get your wife to her home country. She should've came back to you a long time ago. Eventually we are going to get to a point where governments tell their citizens if they leave the country, they may not be allowed back in. Here's a list of nations with border closures and restrictions.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/coronavirus-travel-restrictions-border-shutdowns-country-200318091505922.html

Silly BillyB

SC has had a ticket booked for some time and we booked insurance for 'changes' and any extra costs involved

She is booked on the national carrier and Russia has been setting dates for last flights out - even for citizens

IF she had to stay ... she is covered

There is NO WAY she'd have been coming to the UK to be quarantined, then locked up with Ma and I for 12 weeks

A 'real man' wouldn't do that to his missus'  :popcorn:

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 20, 2020, 08:52:35 AM
GQ,

Is the information in the article below wrong?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeating/2020/03/12/italy-banned-flights-from-china-before-americait-didnt-work/

I also caught a very nasty case of respiratory flu or whatever in February.  Was pretty bad. Worst case I can remember. Was it Coronavirus?  Maybe, maybe not.

It certainly is possible with millions of travellers from all over the world that it was here before WHO provided testing capabilities for this virus. I'd say almost certain. Up north the first confirmed cases were some folks that were doing a bit of travelling between Germany and Italy.  Surely at the time, there were other undetected cases.  Would not be surprising considering the incubation time and many that may not even have exhibited symptoms.  A huge amount of tourists come here, especially in the north.  Airports get really crowded here and Milan is one of the largest hubs for international travel.

BC-

Again, Dr. Remuzzi remarked that unexplained cases of severe pneumonia were happening in the region as far back as November. Italy banning flights from China at the end of January is 2+ months too late. Italy already have reasons to at least be suspicious of the coincidences of a likely epidemic. Two known cases of sickened travellers (Seattle/Chicago) from China in the US prompted flight restrictions in two weeks. Italy is as much culpable in the global spread of the virus as China was for not reacting to this disease immediately.

Heck, when Trump banned flights from Europe, this was the reaction of the European conglomerate (http://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/europe-furious-over-trumps-unilateral-travel-ban/).

Quote
But European leaders argue that their scientific advice suggests travel restrictions are ineffective when the virus is already present almost worldwide, and lamented that they had not been consulted

The US needed to first get permission from the EU to decide what we need to do for us? Are you guys kidding me? Especially knowing now Italy took 2.5 months after cases of coronavirus had already taken lives in Lombardy. Look at what these same band of idiots did a few days after their hissy fit session.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 20, 2020, 09:02:47 AM
...I'm going to be very curious to see what the roads look like this morning.  It appears I'm exempt enough to work today, so I will.  I suspect the California stay at home order will be ignored by many. 

Fathertime!

I received a meeting postponement notice at 4:30 this morning. We are scheduled to meet internally to discuss the daily changes and adjustment we need to do with our company going forward.

I think the majority of (SoCal) Californians are taking heed on what they're being asked to do. The attached picture below shows you what the freeways look like at 6:30 this morning. Usually you'll see all the freeway would be in blood red depicting traffic jams in almost all direction. I have never seen this happen in LA. Not 911, not during the LA riots, etc...

The lone, misguided dude in SoCal is fathertime who apparently have a serious egg addiction.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on March 20, 2020, 09:04:12 AM

I'm still concerned about buying at this moment.   It SEEMS there is still more room to go down, a lot more room.  Verizon may be a good choice though if it falls further.

Fathertime!

There was  fear  on Wednesday . But I closed out my positions today with a reasonable profit for the effort. I guess common sense got the better of me. I just got an email from my broker projecting a 3 MILLION jobless claim number for Wednesday release. And get this, a revision of Q2 GDP from -5% to -20%

I really don't want to be long next week
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 20, 2020, 09:13:35 AM
There was  fear  on Wednesday . But I closed out my positions today with a reasonable profit for the effort. I guess common sense got the better of me. I just got an email from my broker projecting a 3 MILLION jobless claim number for Wednesday release

I really don't want to be long next week

Department of Labor already reported a huge hike in unemployment filing. We apparently crossed the 30% unemployment threshold. They are making the decision to halt all reporting going forward.

As for the stock market, these politicians (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/us-senators-sold-stock-after-coronavirus-briefings-in-january/ar-BB11rJg6?li=BBnb7Kz) need to be investigated when all of this is over, and if found to be guilty they all need to be removed from their positions immediately.

The new normal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9VmUSqdlME
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on March 20, 2020, 09:16:14 AM
Oh, I should add this
http://theweek.com/speedreads/903646/goldman-sachs-devastating-revision-gdp-growth-predictions

In a Friday research note, the bank projected a 24 percent drop in the U.S. GDP in the second quarter — a stark revision from its prediction of a five percent drop earlier this week. Goldman Sachs does see a slight rebound in Q3 and Q4 of 12 percent and 10 percent, respectively, but that still leaves the GDP down 3.8 percent at the end of the year.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 20, 2020, 10:31:05 AM
What is a 'Social Contract'?   

The California governor has called his unspecified shutdown a 'Social Contract'.   When quizzed about it, he said that it is something that will not be enforced, but is a common sense request for our people to do what is right in stopping the spread of the virus.   

In the Tom Clancy book 'Executive Orders' the President shuts down interstate travel and orders a 'stay-in-place' order enforced by the National Guard to stop a pandemic.   This is not such an order.   

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on March 20, 2020, 10:54:07 AM
After reading about high death rate in Italy, started doing some research as to some reasons for this.
Someone mentioned an older average age of population.
These are some stats( close to what I have found in other articles).

-Over 99% of coronavirus deaths in Italy were from patients who have previous medical conditions.
- The average age of those who have died from the virus in Italy is 79.5.
- The median age of those infected is 63
-

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 20, 2020, 10:58:02 AM
What is a 'Social Contract'?   

The California governor has called his unspecified shutdown a 'Social Contract'.   When quizzed about it, he said that it is something that will not be enforced, but is a common sense request for our people to do what is right in stopping the spread of the virus.   

In the Tom Clancy book 'Executive Orders' the President shuts down interstate travel and orders a 'stay-in-place' order enforced by the National Guard to stop a pandemic.   This is not such an order.

I can't help but think to that moment in a Star Trek movie where Spock sacrificially locked himself in a highly radiated room to try and save the Enterprise from exploding. He said to Capt. Kirk, " Jim, the needs of many will always outweigh the needs of the few. In this case, the needs of one!"

Elective, for the most part. Methinks it's more CYA. So maybe he can say later, "it's not like I didn't try to do something short of violating anyone's freedom."

FWIW: Our industry did reach out to the Governor's office for clarity. This is the reply we received:

~ Construction, including housing construction, is listed as an essential need during this crisis. ~

More info here (http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/are-you-an-essential-business-in-89193/)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 20, 2020, 11:38:48 AM

For those attempting to use the existing data to calculate morbidity and mortality, I suggest you leave the task to the epidemiologists who have access to more data and better statistical tools.  They will also factor the differences in data sets  from each nation.   

Instead, I suggest the following guideline, something I synthesized intuitively from listening to various  health professionals.   

                   IN COMPARISON WITH ORDINARY FLU, COVID-19 IS
                  3X  MORE CONTAGIOUS AND 10X MORE FATAL.


If this guideline is accurate, it means if we live and work as we do in normal years, 30X more people will die from COVID-19 than die each year from flu.   

CDC estimates the annual deaths from all flues since 2010 is in the range of 12,000 - 61,000.   
              Source:  http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html


If we live and work the same as we do in normal years, COVID-19 could cause 30X increase in deaths, or a total of 0.4 - 2.0 million deaths for 2020.

The upper estimate should be increased because our healthcare system will be overburdened.   The upper estimate should be decreased to account for the fact that the predicted  maximum number of illnesses is 4x greater than our population.   

These estimates would decline only in response to mitigation measures and compliance by individuals. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 20, 2020, 11:43:19 AM
With 627 fatalities in one day, Italy has now called in the military to enforce lockdowns.

Caution: Reported by CNN

Quote
"We're working in a state of very high stress and tension," Confalonieri told Reuters. "Unfortunately we can't contain the situation in Lombardy, there's a high level of contagion and we're not even counting the dead any more.

"Look at the news that's coming out of Italy and take note of what the situation really is like. It's unimaginable."
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 20, 2020, 11:56:43 AM
Actually, it was reported by REUTERS and quoted by CNN...

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 20, 2020, 12:01:46 PM
THE NEXT CONCERN - THE ECONOMY

I will not be a Krimster and say the economy will crash and money will be worthless

Nevertheless, the health of our economy is second only to the health of  our citizens, and its recovery will be more problematic than the recovery of public  health. 

I have no idea about how this plays out, yet consider these remarkable events.

            -  This will be the first time in history that our nation purposefully created a recession.

            -  The Fed took extreme monetary steps because we were in the worst liquidity crisis since WWII.

            -  The liquidity crisis will become a solvency crisis.

            -  The number of unemployed will set records.   

            -  The speed at which the decline in employment occurs will overtax the capability of unemployment agencies to respond.

            -  A different approach is needed than the typical response of helping stressed  companies, or we will be in long, slow, recovery.     


In two months I feel we will be more focused on our economy than our health.  That could be a good sign.   

           
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 20, 2020, 12:25:37 PM
It is a 'perfect storm' Gator

In the midst of a health crisis, those same hard-working folks that get laid off will lose their health insurance driving hospitals into insolvency.

Maybe, in the end, this will provoke some deeper thought and change.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 20, 2020, 12:31:56 PM
It is a 'perfect storm' Gator

In the midst of a health crisis, those same hard-working folks that get laid off will lose their health insurance driving hospitals into insolvency.

Maybe, in the end, this will provoke some deeper thought and change.

BC,

Sorry, Buddy, but that's the dumbest post you've ever put on this forum.

The government will pay for patients being treated by the hospitals.  That was a portion of the bill that just was passed by Congress.   The hospitals will wind up with more money than they have ever had before.   And the cries for a system to combat this in the future will result in government subsidies for the creation of hospital beds in the time of a crisis. 

If ever there was a call for universal health care, it will be because the hospitals will be gouging everyone they can to line their coffers.   Not because the hospitals are becoming insolvent.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on March 20, 2020, 12:33:24 PM
After reading about high death rate in Italy, started doing some research as to some reasons for this.
Someone mentioned an older average age of population.
These are some stats( close to what I have found in other articles).

-Over 99% of coronavirus deaths in Italy were from patients who have previous medical conditions.
- The average age of those who have died from the virus in Italy is 79.5.
- The median age of those infected is 63
-

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says

Wife just reported to me her completed talk with cousin who lives outside Florence, Italy.
She told of the 600 deaths overnight.
But yes, most had other serious illness before Corona came along.

One scary  thing if true . . . all those who are placed on ventilators have died.

Apparently those medical people who were trained in proper operation of the ventilators have died themselves and now untrained people are operating the ventilators.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 20, 2020, 12:35:14 PM
The UK govt ( FINALLY) woke up and realised that we couldn't rely on the money working it's way from the top, downwards..

ANYONE employed on Feb 28th will get 80 percent of their salary - up to £2500 / month

A bit less unclear for the self employed and how this will all work in practice, but 'our' govt (UK) just became extreme socialists ;)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on March 20, 2020, 12:37:22 PM
THE NEXT CONCERN - THE ECONOMY

            -  This will be the first time in history that our nation purposefully created a recession.
           

This is very inaccurate wording.

No one created a recession on purpose.

A recession is following appropriate actions that are being taken to lessen the death toll of our citizens.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on March 20, 2020, 12:41:23 PM
I don't know if it has been mentioned by others here, but after the economy recovers, the worst lasting result from all of this will be . . .

MASSIVE INFLATION.

Those who hold hard assets (real estate, gold, etc.) will have windfall gains.

For real estate, those gains will have to wait until buyers recover enough to move forward.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on March 20, 2020, 12:48:56 PM
At Donnie's press conference today, heard something new to me from the medical gal in charge at White House.

She said the death rate from Corona for males was twice the rate for females.

- - - - - -

Also was pleased when Donnie called out some reporters, and one in particular, for asking ridiculous questions designed to lead to panic.  He told the guy he was a terrible reporter and should be ashamed of himself.

Of course a couple of other reporters tried to get in their questions about what message this sends when Donnie 'goes off' on a member of press.

I don't know why Donnie doesn't just refuse to recognize some of these folks when they try to ask questions.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 20, 2020, 01:00:26 PM
BC,

Sorry, Buddy, but that's the dumbest post you've ever put on this forum.

The government will pay for patients being treated by the hospitals. 

Mind pointing me to that part of the legislation?  Sure costs for test and related expenses associated with the test, and a billion dollars for uninsured, until it runs out which will be quick.

Or did I miss something?

Don't forget that those that do lose their health insurance don't stop getting sick and injured from causes other than the Coronavirus.  They will still show up at the ER.

Hospitals asking for 100 Billion bailout - before the wave hits.

 
Quote
Hospitals bracing for a flood of coronavirus cases are demanding a federal bailout.

They want $100 billion in the next relief package along with targeted changes to tax laws they say are needed to free up the money before the first surge of cases sweeps in.

http://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/19/hospitals-coronavirus-funding-138383
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on March 20, 2020, 01:09:12 PM
I don't know if it has been mentioned by others here, but after the economy recovers, the worst lasting result from all of this will be . . .

MASSIVE INFLATION.

Those who hold hard assets (real estate, gold, etc.) will have windfall gains.

For real estate, those gains will have to wait until buyers recover enough to move forward.

Look at the Dollar Index, soaring this week. As risk off trades take place, a shortage of dollars will be the result
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 20, 2020, 01:29:28 PM
Mind pointing me to that part of the legislation?  Sure costs for test and related expenses associated with the test, and a billion dollars for uninsured, until it runs out which will be quick.

Or did I miss something?

Don't forget that those that do lose their health insurance don't stop getting sick and injured from causes other than the Coronavirus.  They will still show up at the ER.

Hospitals asking for 100 Billion bailout - before the wave hits.

 
http://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/19/hospitals-coronavirus-funding-138383

And you think they aren't going to get it?   Hospitals are the middle of the war effort right now.   It is like the tank industry during WWII.   Anything they want, they get.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on March 20, 2020, 01:35:34 PM
At Donnie's press conference today, heard something new to me from the medical gal in charge at White House.

She said the death rate from Corona for males was twice the rate for females.

That is because they are bundling the corona drinkers with the corona virus!!!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 20, 2020, 01:43:25 PM
Dow opened at +200, then closed @ -900. Unbelievable!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 20, 2020, 02:19:09 PM

Maybe, in the end, this will provoke some deeper thought and change.

Yes, profound thoughts about how precious health is (brings to mind the Russian favorite toast is "to your health"). 

Yes, regretful thoughts about what could have been done. 

Yes, hopeful thoughts about the changes and hard work needed to recover. 

Meanwhile, hug you loved ones. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 20, 2020, 02:33:26 PM
This is very inaccurate wording.

No one created a recession on purpose.

A recession is following appropriate actions that are being taken to lessen the death toll of our citizens.

Yes, but they we knew the actions would create a recession, and took the actions without hesitation,  akin to falling on a grenade.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 20, 2020, 02:42:22 PM
And you think they aren't going to get it?   Hospitals are the middle of the war effort right now.   It is like the tank industry during WWII.   Anything they want, they get.

Well, guess universal healthcare has arrived then ;)


Meanwhile, hug you loved ones. 


Thanks Gator.. we've always been a family of huggers so no worries there :)

Hug yours as well.

Stay home, stay safe.


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 20, 2020, 02:43:05 PM
And you think they aren't going to get it?   Hospitals are the middle of the war effort right now.   It is like the tank industry during WWII.   Anything they want, they get.

Agree, we will have hospitals.  In fact, we could have more than we have now by converting unused hotels, unused cruise ships, etc. 

We will have medical equipment for the hospitals (your example of tanks)

The question is whether we will have healthcare staff to man the hospitals.

In the war against the viral epidemic, we don't have the time to train new tank operators needed not just for the new tanks but to replace the fallen.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 20, 2020, 02:56:32 PM
Mind pointing me to that part of the legislation?  Sure costs for test and related expenses associated with the test, and a billion dollars for uninsured, until it runs out which will be quick.

Or did I miss something?

Don't forget that those that do lose their health insurance don't stop getting sick and injured from causes other than the Coronavirus.  They will still show up at the ER.

Hospitals asking for 100 Billion bailout - before the wave hits.

 
http://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/19/hospitals-coronavirus-funding-138383

I've no idea where the point of universal healthcare is when an Italian doctor is reduced to pleading for funds via GoFundMe in the internet. This is the golden universal care the US needs to adopt?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iUFskknWNs&feature=youtu.be
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 20, 2020, 03:09:37 PM
I don't know if it has been mentioned by others here, but after the economy recovers, the worst lasting result from all of this will be . . .

MASSIVE INFLATION.


Probably before the economy recovers. 

Treasuries got hammered, suggesting the world governments will be selling massive debt to fund bail-outs, stimulus plans,.... Supply of new bonds will greatly exceed demand unless bond interest rates are raised.

Or the world could simply print more money. 

Or the option I like best - devalue Western currencies thereby significantly devastating the value of all those US/Euro bonds China holds.    That will teach them not to eat bats and armadillos. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 20, 2020, 03:58:07 PM
I've no idea where the point of universal healthcare is when an Italian doctor is reduced to pleading for funds via GoFundMe in the internet. This is the golden universal care the US needs to adopt?


It's not a lack of funding.  It's timing.  Don't assume the US would do better under the same circumstances.  There's already a reported shortage of ventilators and masks in US hospitals.  The difference is, they have the time to correct that.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 20, 2020, 04:13:11 PM
In the US, we sell out of Toilet Paper.   In France, they sell out of wine and condoms.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 20, 2020, 04:34:33 PM
After reading about high death rate in Italy, started doing some research as to some reasons for this.
Someone mentioned an older average age of population.
These are some stats( close to what I have found in other articles).

-Over 99% of coronavirus deaths in Italy were from patients who have previous medical conditions.
- The average age of those who have died from the virus in Italy is 79.5.
- The median age of those infected is 63
-


The old and sick has a greater chance in dying from anything. Coronavirus, flu, a fall or a bullet. Coronavirus is more dangerous for everybody across every age group.

~ Construction, including housing construction, is listed as an essential need during this crisis. ~


Construction workers are important. People need their pipes, gas, heat, and electrical fixed. They may need to fix a leaky roof. Some lonely women who are self isolating may just want a hardbody construction worker to play with.

For those attempting to use the existing data to calculate morbidity and mortality, I suggest you leave the task to the epidemiologists who have access to more data and better statistical tools.  They will also factor the differences in data sets  from each nation.   

Instead, I suggest the following guideline, something I synthesized intuitively from listening to various  health professionals.   

                   IN COMPARISON WITH ORDINARY FLU, COVID-19 IS
                  3X  MORE CONTAGIOUS AND 10X MORE FATAL.


If this guideline is accurate, it means if we live and work as we do in normal years, 30X more people will die from COVID-19 than die each year from flu.   


No need for experts. Many of them are wrong. Italy has 47,000 cases of COVID-19. The flu kills .1% of people. If 47,000 Italians got the flu, 47 of them would be dead. Right now 4032 Italians are dead from COVID-19 and most of them are not even finished with their battle with the virus. COVID is a LOT MORE deadly than the flu. A lot more than 10x more fatal that the flu.

I know there is an argument there's a lot of people are walking around with COVID-19 and aren't counted. Most of the times in my life when I got the flu, I sat home and wasn't counted. There's a lot of uncounted people for every illness.


There is NO WAY she'd have been coming to the UK to be quarantined, then locked up with Ma and I for 12 weeks


She doesn't want to come to the UK. Russia doesn't want you. So you must expect to be separated for as long as governments ban travel and foreign nationals. You can expect to be separated for years. In Maxx's thread you said nobody seen this coming. You were warned in January with travel bans being place on Chinese. How can you watch the sh!tshow in China all through January and February and not think that virus would come to your shores?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 20, 2020, 04:44:03 PM

It's not a lack of funding.  It's timing. 

In addition, where there is great need a supplier will inevitably show up.  Sometimes only cash will do.  I get the sneaky feeling that some of the many vans that come from parts east to bring grocery items and mail packages to serve UA and RU folks here are now filled with medical supplies.   I estimate there are at least a hundred of them that run regular tours to each major city in Italy.  My wife can order some special homemade honey collected by a babushka in a little town in RU and it shows up a week or so later in a plain white van. Who is going to argue in this time of crisis?

Aside, millions are being donated for adding hospital wards and equipment just as is done in the US.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 20, 2020, 04:49:28 PM

It's not a lack of funding.  It's timing.  Don't assume the US would do better under the same circumstances.  There's already a reported shortage of ventilators and masks in US hospitals.  The difference is, they have the time to correct that.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

That hasn't escaped me. Tit for tat! But that's BC's point regarding universal care by pointing out US hospitals are already requesting assistance. Any system will be flexed when hit with unforeseen condition. So your 'point' can, or should be, directed at his since the situation in Italy where he is already well underway. No advantages there. Zip. Nada. Zilch. Zero. There, it seems they're BEYOND government funding since they're already going GoFundMe already.

He sounds like a used car salesman who drove in with a lemon, attempting to convince anyone it's a lean, mean driving machine.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 20, 2020, 05:07:17 PM
I think his point was that no one will be turned away in systems with universal healthcare.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 20, 2020, 05:08:44 PM
Went to the grocery store today.   Pretty much normal.   I kept my spacing in line.   A lady crowds up directly behind me and says to everyone that she doesn't have the Corona Virus.  I turn around, let out a nice long breath and say "And you're willing to trust me that I don't?"
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 20, 2020, 05:23:19 PM
I think his point was that no one will be turned away in systems with universal healthcare.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

No one is turned away in the US either. Even illegal immigrants get free healthcare.

Next point.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 20, 2020, 07:19:28 PM
I received a meeting postponement notice at 4:30 this morning. We are scheduled to meet internally to discuss the daily changes and adjustment we need to do with our company going forward.

I think the majority of (SoCal) Californians are taking heed on what they're being asked to do. The attached picture below shows you what the freeways look like at 6:30 this morning. Usually you'll see all the freeway would be in blood red depicting traffic jams in almost all direction. I have never seen this happen in LA. Not 911, not during the LA riots, etc...

The lone, misguided dude in SoCal is fathertime who apparently have a serious egg addiction.
First, I got the eggs for my family...I rarely eat them myself. 

I drove some today through North LA and the Inland Empire.  Less traffic for sure, but still plenty of cars on the road.  Parking lots full, and the business in front of me (Which is very non-essential) was up and running, although the cute little girlies there tell me this is their last day. 

Went to 99Cent store today just for fun.   It had more stuff than expected, got some bacon, bananas, and even a loaf of 'healthy' bread.  The vegetables and fruits were aplenty. 

Overall, did a healthy business today....although I don't expect to be open for much longer to the public, until the situation settles down. Perhaps I'll just tinker about, and organize for a few days.   

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 20, 2020, 07:39:41 PM
THE NEXT CONCERN - THE ECONOMY
 

            -  This will be the first time in history that our nation purposefully created a recession.
         

This is very inaccurate wording.

No one created a recession on purpose.

A recession is following appropriate actions that are being taken to lessen the death toll of our citizens.

I think it is ridiculous that certain partisan republicans are trying to word things in such a way as to make it seem like the democrats are causing this recession.  It really seems to be an outside force that nobody has much control over.  It seems that this virus is going to shorten a lot of lives yet Some would rather complain about 'trump's economy getting shafted', and it is the 'evil democrats' doing. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 20, 2020, 10:23:10 PM
I think his point was that no one will be turned away in systems with universal healthcare.

In these times the capacity of some hospitals will exceeded.  When no staffed beds are available,  no new patient is getting a bed whether the system is private insurance or universal healthcare.  Patients will be triaged, and some will be turned away. 

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 20, 2020, 10:43:13 PM
All patients have beds. The bed in their house works as good as the bed in the hospital. There is no cure or treatment a hospital can give a person infected with the coronavirus. Their immune system has to beat the virus. The only people that should be going to the hospital are those that need assistance to breathe.

There's a few hotels in my area that's been bought and most rooms are empty. When China finished building their hospitals in 10 days that can take 1500 patients, the infection rate skyrocketed faster than they were building rooms at one point. Buying hotels get more rooms in a shorter time.

Hospitals play a role but government plays a bigger role. Failure to act properly and fast enough can cause more damage to the economy, overload hospitals and cost lives.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 20, 2020, 11:53:48 PM


She doesn't want to come to the UK. Russia doesn't want you. So you must expect to be separated for as long as governments ban travel and foreign nationals. You can expect to be separated for years. In Maxx's thread you said nobody seen this coming. You were warned in January with travel bans being place on Chinese. How can you watch the sh!tshow in China all through January and February and not think that virus would come to your shores?

I must have believed 'Trampu' ? ...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: IvanM07 on March 21, 2020, 12:58:33 AM
Wow lots of posts since my last reply. Doing good. Tested negative on the flu test so I'm in the quarantine area. Still able to work remotely even though I don't have to. Hell, it's boring so why not.

By this point docs say if I'd have had an immune overreaction it would have happened by now (intubation, fluid, etc.) So at least I'm a 'Mild' case.

Still sucks worse than a regular flu. Told my boss but haven't posted in Social Media. Since people will do what they do best and panic.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 21, 2020, 02:28:41 AM
Great to hear you are doing better Ivan!  Guess can't wish you a speedy quarantine but in a way, you are helping others by not passing it on.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 21, 2020, 03:40:30 AM
In these times the capacity of some hospitals will exceeded.  When no staffed beds are available,  no new patient is getting a bed whether the system is private insurance or universal healthcare.  Patients will be triaged, and some will be turned away.

A hospital waiting room and parking lot is packed full of patients with coughing, fever and respiratory problems, they all have filled out their forms, ticking the box "Do you have insurance?" or filling the blank with "Who is your health insurance company?"  The hospital is packed and some will have to be turned away. Who will the hospital turn away?  Will non-medical factors be a part of the triage process?

Two patients arrive at a hospital at the same time, both cases need to be admitted to ICU with pretty much same prognosis.  One is covered by the healthcare network the hospital uses, the other not, or not insured.  Only one ICU bed is available.  Which patient should this hospital admit?  Will the patients and families feel they are being treated equally?  Doctors having to make hard choices is tough enough, it might even come down to a flip of the coin..  but having to discriminate based on insurance coverage?  How about two patients within the same 'network' but with different levels of coverage?

All this sound outlandish?  Yesterday, the answer would be 'Of course this won't happen!'  Today or tomorrow the answer may be a bit different..
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 21, 2020, 03:55:26 AM
That hasn't escaped me. Tit for tat! But that's BC's point regarding universal care by pointing out US hospitals are already requesting assistance. Any system will be flexed when hit with unforeseen condition. So your 'point' can, or should be, directed at his since the situation in Italy where he is already well underway. No advantages there. Zip. Nada. Zilch. Zero. There, it seems they're BEYOND government funding since they're already going GoFundMe already.

He sounds like a used car salesman who drove in with a lemon, attempting to convince anyone it's a lean, mean driving machine.

I was quite clear agreeing that any system can become overloaded. 

The points I was trying to bring out with my posts:

One contact point and one message for all - here each region (state) has a dedicated toll free number to call for information and instructions.
More coordinated testing efforts along with being able to better collect and report data - leading to better and quicker decisionmaking.
No 'sorry you are not in our network' go find another when someone needs testing.
Patients don't lose their health insurance when they are laid off reducing stress, panic and additional economic risks.
Easier identification of which hospitals needs supplies along with supply procedures and logistics already in place.
Folks needing care are more likely to seek help and get tested, no one asks themselves 'Can I afford to see a doc or go to the hospital.'
and the list goes on and on....

I am not even saying that the system here is perfect or works without any kinks.  But this 'experience' should give pause for thought and not be outright 'dissed' because of the pejorative use of words such as 'that is socialist!!'.

Heck, I have expressed in the past that I don't agree with Bernie's plan.  I don't agree that private insurance needs to be banned.  Most Americans do want some form of universal healthcare and solutions abound all around the world if we are willing to open our eyes.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on March 21, 2020, 04:11:59 AM
Just went to the State Dept Website, the advice given Thursday not to travel abroad is more than advice,, Its a Level 4 Travel Warning. Further, all Americans abroad need to return home now, or they might be stuck for a long period of time. It appears to me the USA is gearing up for a full national lockdown that goes for months.
  If so, There goes my May trip to see my GF
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 21, 2020, 05:00:41 AM
GenMish,

For those that do get the 'bug' and survive, hopefully some resistance will have been acquired.  Once testing is more widespread and cannot infect others they are likely those that will have the first step out their doors with more free movement.  It may come down to .gov providing certifications.  Those that test negative will likely have to watch out and stay more isolated for some time to come. 

May does seem a bit early.  I don't foresee all restrictions including travel being lifted this year. :/
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 21, 2020, 05:14:40 AM
All patients have beds. The bed in their house works as good as the bed in the hospital. There is no cure or treatment a hospital can give a person infected with the coronavirus. Their immune system has to beat the virus. The only people that should be going to the hospital are those that need assistance to breathe.

That’s exactly right. Telemed, RingCentral, eHealth, TeleHealth, etc have long existed that dramatically minimized hospitalization. These are even more widely used now because they encouraged people NOT to come to hospitals for treatment as there currently is no cure for CoVID-10 at this time. Your hospital beds are your beds at home. 80-90% of infection are classified as ‘mild’. As of today, in the US, confirmed cases is currently at 19.8k, serious/critical case - presumably those requiring hospitalization - is at 64. The majority of the infected are likely in self isolation at their respective homes.

The use of hydro/chloroquine in combination of azithromycin is reportedly making significant result in France and/or So Korea, IINM as therapy drug. Their rate of recovery had been impressive. I’m not sure what the reason why there’s apprehension in the US medical association in using this right now.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 21, 2020, 05:33:55 AM
...
Also was pleased when Donnie called out some reporters, and one in particular, for asking ridiculous questions designed to lead to panic.  He told the guy he was a terrible reporter and should be ashamed of himself.

Of course a couple of other reporters tried to get in their questions about what message this sends when Donnie 'goes off' on a member of press.

I don't know why Donnie doesn't just refuse to recognize some of these folks when they try to ask questions.

Wifey was extremely pleased when she saw it while working from home. She said she had to stopped working and watched it intently on TV. She couldn’t wait to text me at work if I was listening to the presser. So she sent me the link once it was spliced on YouTube

http://youtu.be/jXWDhCuz24M

This idiot, Peter Alexander, was likely stooged by NBC’s Chuck Todd to do this at the presser. There’s just no stopping these loony liberals.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 21, 2020, 05:39:50 AM
Going/staying home is also suggested here for mild cases or those that have not become more serious.  Just an idea of goings-on Italy wide:

Out of 37860 still infected yesterday, 19185 (50%)are home quarantine, 16020 (42%) serious enough to be admitted to hospital plus 2655 (7)% in intensive care.

Of course, there are more cases out there so this just to give a quick gauge on proportions at this time with intensive care patients representing about 16% of hospitalizations.  A lot of folks are on oxygen or forced oxygen that requires close monitoring, meds infusions etc.

I'm pretty sure they are trying to keep everyone they can home.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 21, 2020, 05:54:59 AM
I don't foresee all restrictions including travel being lifted this year. :/

Wifey and I are resigned to being apart for another 7 months ... please don't make it any worse ;)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 21, 2020, 05:56:17 AM



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIdPPVkkHYs.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 21, 2020, 05:59:37 AM
Wifey and I are resigned to being apart for another 7 months ... please don't make it any worse ;)


I was wondering how SC was doing. Why 7 months? I have only glanced at this thread.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Brillynt on March 21, 2020, 07:03:08 AM
I think it is ridiculous that certain partisan republicans are trying to word things in such a way as to make it seem like the democrats are causing this recession.  It really seems to be an outside force that nobody has much control over.  It seems that this virus is going to shorten a lot of lives yet Some would rather complain about 'trump's economy getting shafted', and it is the 'evil democrats' doing. 

Fathertime!

I think it is ridiculous that certain partisan demoncrats are trying to word things in such a way as to blame this virus on Trump.  All of this partisan crap needs to stop and everyone needs to work toward getting this country back on it's feet.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 21, 2020, 07:20:52 AM
I think it is ridiculous that certain partisan demoncrats are trying to word things in such a way as to blame this virus on Trump. 
Trump is not to be blamed for the virus itself.  People that attempt that take look ridiculous.

All of this partisan crap needs to stop and everyone need to work to getting this country back on it's feet.

I don't think partisanship is going to end any time soon.  Listening to the utter right wing rancor on talk radio will continue to fuel  the right wing.   Let's see how much a toll this virus takes.  While I'm no longer a conservative, I do listen to the right wing view on talk radio, and currently I find it to be extremely destructive and unrealistic for the most part.  There are a lot of people that buy in though. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 21, 2020, 07:28:19 AM
I don't know if it has been mentioned by others here, but after the economy recovers, the worst lasting result from all of this will be . . .

MASSIVE INFLATION.

Those who hold hard assets (real estate, gold, etc.) will have windfall gains.

For real estate, those gains will have to wait until buyers recover enough to move forward.
Inflation verses Deflation.   
I can see how it could go either way, but I lean towards inflation also.    The dollar has been very strong in recent weeks especially, but my guess is that it is peaking.  This week, when 1 trillion dollar bailouts, stimulus are going to be passed and sent around, that should lower the dollar and keep money flowing to the unemployed populace to some extent.    I can't see deflation happening, but then again, if the virus took a massive human toll there would presumably be a lot of empty homes, and excess commodities which could drive prices lower.  My gut says we won't have a human toll as bad as forecasted, which could just be wishful thinking on my part.

Fathertime!   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 21, 2020, 07:32:36 AM
I think it is ridiculous that certain partisan demoncrats are trying to word things in such a way as to blame this virus on Trump.  All of this partisan crap needs to stop and everyone need to work to getting this country back on it's feet.


I find this true of the men of this board. I like GQ and I like Moby. Recently Ilona and I are in communication. These are times to put our differences aside and help each other with words of kindness and encouragement. I know I've been a $hit at times. Sorry about that! "Peace" as they used to say in my time.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 21, 2020, 07:32:49 AM
Wow lots of posts since my last reply. Doing good. Tested negative on the flu test so I'm in the quarantine area. Still able to work remotely even though I don't have to. Hell, it's boring so why not.

By this point docs say if I'd have had an immune overreaction it would have happened by now (intubation, fluid, etc.) So at least I'm a 'Mild' case.

Still sucks worse than a regular flu. Told my boss but haven't posted in Social Media. Since people will do what they do best and panic.
Good luck with recovery.   How have you quarantined yourself?  I suspect if anyone in my household gets it, we will all get it as everything is shared. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 21, 2020, 07:37:05 AM
My gut says we won't have a human toll as bad as forecasted, which could just be wishful thinking on my part.

Fathertime!


I sure hope you are right.


The dollar here in Georgia went from 2.8 GEL to the USD to 3.22 GEL to the USD in a matter of a week. My business landlord agreed to wave my rent for the months of April and May. What comes after that I do not know. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 21, 2020, 08:15:37 AM
The use of hydro/chloroquine in combination of azithromycin is reportedly making significant result in France and/or So Korea, IINM as therapy drug. Their rate of recovery had been impressive. I’m not sure what the reason why there’s apprehension in the US medical association in using this right now.



Trump wants some of those drugs approved and the FDA is working on it. Doctors around the world should be allowed to experiment with various drugs. The ones you mentioned above should not be crowned the best without further testing. We may come to learn that nothing works. Until WHO or the CDC says on their website they found something, assume nothing works. Here's who's answer the question on cures and treatments at their website. One thing American doctors are doing is trying to boost the immune systems of COVID-19 patients.



[size=1rem]Are there any medicines or therapies that can prevent or cure COVID-19? (http://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses#)[/size]

While some western, traditional or home remedies may provide comfort and alleviate symptoms of COVID-19, there is no evidence that current medicine can prevent or cure the disease. WHO does not recommend self-medication with any medicines, including antibiotics, as a prevention or cure for COVID-19. However, there are several ongoing clinical trials that include both western and traditional medicines. WHO will continue to provide updated information as soon as clinical findings are available.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 21, 2020, 08:29:58 AM
Wow lots of posts since my last reply. Doing good. Tested negative on the flu test so I'm in the quarantine area. Still able to work remotely even though I don't have to. Hell, it's boring so why not.

By this point docs say if I'd have had an immune overreaction it would have happened by now (intubation, fluid, etc.) So at least I'm a 'Mild' case.

Still sucks worse than a regular flu. Told my boss but haven't posted in Social Media. Since people will do what they do best and panic.

Hope you get well soon. You're younger than most of us and have a stronger immune system. If they tested you for flu, does that mean they didn't test you for COVID-19? If they didn't test you for COVID-19, what was their reasoning? With you having mild symptom and being in the quarantine area, it's a good sign the hospital isn't overloaded to the point they would send people with mild symptoms home to self quarantine.

The dollar here in Georgia went from 2.8 GEL to the USD to 3.22 GEL to the USD in a matter of a week. My business landlord agreed to wave my rent for the months of April and May. What comes after that I do not know. 


Although everybody's economy is going to take a big hit, the dollar may become stronger than other currencies in weaker economies that could easily shatter. First America has to get our house in order and then help the rest of the world. Our government is talking about giving every American over a $1000. I don't know all the details on that yet if those on SS pension will get it and those living overseas will get it. If Georgia is going to provide relief for your landlord throughout this crisis, you may receive additional relief. There's only so much relief a government can give to businesses and people before they crash. This problem can last years so make all your decisions based on that prediction. If our governments want to rid of this virus sooner, they need to take more drastic steps. Governments must take these steps in unison or the virus will be back.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 21, 2020, 08:31:18 AM
When I read of certain posters mentioning antibiotics in the same breath as a virus, I have to SERIOUSLY wonder....even if 'quoting'...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 21, 2020, 08:36:33 AM

I was wondering how SC was doing. Why 7 months? I have only glanced at this thread.

She is in Thailand and HOPES to leave on the 25th. She had an flight cancelled with Etihad as Russia closed it's borders from middle east nations..( She was transiting)

Now, on an Aeroflot flight, direct to Russia.




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 21, 2020, 08:42:08 AM
When I read of certain posters mentioning antibiotics in the same breath as a virus, I have to SERIOUSLY wonder....even if 'quoting'...

Antibiotics alone can't beat a virus but doctors in France and China think mixing an antibiotic with hydroxychloroquine works better than hydroxychloroquine alone. There's a lot of temptation for labs and big pharma to announce they have a treatment or cure. Big money and fame is involved.

http://techcrunch.com/2020/03/19/french-study-finds-anti-malarial-and-antibiotic-combo-could-reduce-covid-19-duration/
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 21, 2020, 08:55:31 AM
There are SO many armchair experts out there posting 'revalations', too.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 21, 2020, 09:09:28 AM

Moby, you failed to evaluate the situation as it unfolded and now you and your wife will probably be separated for over a year. She doesn't want to come to the UK to be with you and Russia doesn't want you. This should be a humbling experience but you choose to remain a smart ass. Keep it up and people will remind you of your failures.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 21, 2020, 09:27:01 AM
Then there's the 'experts' on immigration / quarantine laws of every nation..

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 21, 2020, 09:33:11 AM
All of this partisan crap needs to stop and everyone need to work to getting this country back on it's feet.

Amen brother. 

It never happened to me when I was in Vietnam, yet there were several episodes of  VC/NVA sappers infiltrating the wire around a base camp.  When it happened, everyone grabbed their weapon to defend the critical positions,  killing the sappers as contacted, and soon sweeping the camp to kill all of them.     There were no analysis about whose fault it was,  or prolonged debate about what to do, or screams "we're going to die."   The next day was spent rebuilding, with everyone doing their job.

 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 21, 2020, 11:03:00 AM
A friend in the UK sent this to me.  It's from a forum she reads.  This is why China was able to contain the virus -
Quote

I've now been in isolation for two months in China.  It may surprise you to learn that I am not in Wuhaan or even Hubei Province, but Wuxi, a city in Jiangsu, over 700 Km away from the epicenter of the virus.

The impression created in the Western media is that by asking the residents of one city to self-isolate, China managed to bring the outbreak under control. It’s a dangerous misconception leading to a cavalier attitude and the false assumption that putting London in lockdown would somehow make things right. The truth is that China’s measures went far beyond anything imaginable in Western cultures and extended, at the worst of the epidemic, from Guangdong Province in the South to beyond Beijing in the North. 

News of the virus made little impact outside of Hubei until shortly before Chinese New Year. The holiday is a time of mass migration when workers in the cities generally return to their hometowns to visit family. Faced with the prospect of millions of people moving around the country and potentially spreading the virus further, on January 23rd we went into official lockdown.

Initially we were told that the week-long New Year Holiday would be extended by a few days but as time passed and schools were closed indefinitely, we realized that we were in for the long haul. Today, two months later, some of the stricter controls here are starting to be relaxed but we are still in lockdown mode. Our business, a restaurant is still closed by order and this will not be reviewed until April 1st at the earliest. There is no confirmed date for schools reopening and movement is still highly restricted.

Overnight, the security guards at the gate of our complex were equipped with thermometers and our temperatures were taken each time we passed. Registering an elevated temperature carried a constant fear of being reported to the authorities and quarantined. We were fortunate in being allowed relatively unrestricted access to and from our home but for many of our friends, only one person per apartment was allowed out to buy supplies every two or three days. No deliveries were allowed into the complex and a makeshift collection point was set up at the gates. No visitors were allowed and social gatherings prohibited. All cars were stopped on roads and highways as police conducted detailed questioning about recent movements and checked temperatures. Long distance travel between provinces was either suspended or reduced.

The Chinese mobilized technology to establish highly sophisticated movement and contact tracing. There is almost universal usage of WeChat (social media) and AliPay (payment system) here so everyone was required to register and give a detailed description of their current location and recent travel history. Based on this we received a QR code and our estimated risk-level. We needed to scan this to gain access to a supermarket or public building. As a result, I have friends who received a knock on their doors and were taken into official quarantine for two weeks because someone on their incoming flight or in the supermarket at the same time had tested positive for the virus. A friend has just returned from Europe (a day before mandatory quarantine for returning European travellers was imposed) and is now in compulsory lockdown in her apartment. Movement is monitored by app; the complex management has electronically sealed her windows and doors. Trapped with 4 children and with her husband who had not travelled moving into a hotel to avoid quarantine, this is unbelievably hard to navigate in good spirits but she understands, as do we all, that it’s necessary. If it all sounds very 1984, that’s because it is! But ultimately this testing, contact tracing, and shutting down chains of transmission, is what stopped the virus from spreading.

In spite of this use of technology, one hangover from the early days of the Mao era is the habit of physically pasting notices and public announcements onto the doors of homes. As such we learned within hours of the lockdown that all weddings and funerals (or at least attendance at funerals) were to be cancelled, the wearing of protective masks was compulsory and that financial incentives would be offered to those who reported undocumented travellers from Hubei province. There has been much discussion about the efficiency of using surgical masks but one thing is for certain, the physical act of having to put on a mask, wearing it and seeing others do so, focuses the mind! It is impossible to “forget” that there is an epidemic. It never feels ok to drop your guard and as such, remembering to wash your hands thoroughly and use sanitizer and wipes becomes second nature. That small strip of surgical mask becomes a constant reminder of potential danger and the need to protect yourself and those around you.

Pharmacies were immediately prohibited from selling any pain/fever/symptom relief medication; the logic being that self-medication was detrimental to the public good and that anyone displaying symptoms should be under the care of the medical profession, allowing cases to be documented and all contacts traced. This caused us endless problems as our daughter is currently staying with us. She is an AS sufferer who came from the UK for the holidays and has since been trapped! As she is on a schedule of TNF inhibitors she is immune-compromised and as such is in a high-risk category. Flying (on the one or two routes still open) was too risky. Now that the danger is subsiding at this end, flying back into an uncertain situation in the UK seems equally challenging. We found extraordinary generosity from friends who shared what medical supplies they had. In Wuhan, HIV patients, who are often vilified and ostracized in society, willingly donated their meds to trial therapies in an act of selfless compassion that was truly humbling.

Regardless of politics or social conditioning, what we have witnessed from the Chinese people in the past two months has really been the best of humanity. There was some anxiety regarding sourcing of masks (and price gouging until the government announced penalties for anyone attempting to) but this was quite simply a result of over a billion people suddenly needing them! Other than that, we have been limited to using three small shops within walking distance but have never experienced shortages or lack of availability of the basics – even toilet paper! There has always been fresh fruit and veg – maybe not what we would like but enough to keep us healthy! Yes admittedly, it helps that I am in lockdown with a Michelin starred chef who can turn a lentil, a chickpea and a bean into a feast, but basically this was down to the Chinese people who acted responsibly and were satisfied with “enough” rather than stock-piling or hoarding. My social media contacts have been uplifting and informative and there has generally been a phenomenal spirit of community and pulling together as a society in the fight against the virus. The cynical would call this propaganda, and much of it was certainly State driven or sanctioned but on a personal level, it’s far better for mental health than the venomous pit of Facebook conspiracy theories and rumours.

Without doubt, the past two months have been devastating; the business that we have run for 12 years is decimated and will never recover. We’ve been isolated, cut off from the medical care that two of we three desperately need and our daughter has faced the uncertainty of being isolated here and anxious about her friends and boyfriend in the UK. Our present has been put on indefinite hold and our future looks increasingly uncertain but that’s what it took to bring this virus under control and save lives.


We rightly value the freedoms that Western democracies afford us and so many of the measures adopted in China will be impossible to implement. But if we cherish that freedom we also have to accept that it is a social contract and only functions if we individually and as a society contribute positively and act responsibly.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 21, 2020, 11:42:10 AM
She is in Thailand and HOPES to leave on the 25th. She had an flight cancelled with Etihad as Russia closed it's borders from middle east nations..( She was transisting)

Now, on an Aeroflt flight, direct to Russia.


I hope all goes well for you.




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 21, 2020, 11:57:50 AM

I hope all goes well for you.

Didi madloba  Maxx !
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 21, 2020, 12:40:16 PM
The UK govt ( FINALLY) woke up and realised that we couldn't rely on the money working it's way from the top, downwards..

ANYONE employed on Feb 28th will get 80 percent of their salary - up to £2500 / month

A bit less unclear for the self employed and how this will all work in practice, but 'our' govt (UK) just became extreme socialists ;)

I don't trust them, I wouldn't trust whatever party in power at the moment. Whoever is in power at times like this they act all the same, big words but little outcome. I wouldn't trust the, 'paying 80 percent of employees salaries'. When it comes to it, it's odds on that there will be lot of clauses & strings attached. Either the business will have to repay the government by way of a government loan (they may say 'grant') or it won't apply to many employees, i.e not to those on zero hours contracts.

End of the day the more likely outcome is that the businesses won't want to take on the debt for employees sat around producing no revenue for the business. They will still be laid off to the dole queue or will end up in another job most likely a high risk of infection Supermarket job.


With last night's closure of pub, bar, nightclubs etc supermarket shelves were being cleared of booze today. I got a nice bottle of Bacardi today in my local Sainsbury's supermarket 70cl on special offer at £14, if you hurry Mobers you may still be able to get one to drown your sorrows in ;)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 21, 2020, 12:48:09 PM
There is NO WAY she'd have been coming to the UK to be quarantined, then locked up with Ma and I for 12 weeks.

Well I guess now at least you know what it is like to be locked up for a while. Thought you had been quiet on this board for a while, now we know why, lol.

Could be a learning experience for readers of this board to see whether SC sticks with you or cuts you loose. Being so far apart and for an potentially unknown length of time one or either of you might decide it's better to move on with your now very separate lives.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 21, 2020, 12:51:48 PM
I'm not a big drinker, Trench... I ( normally ) cannot cope with spirits..

More of a social red wine drinker and 'social' is out the window..

You voted for the very 'lot' you don't trust, now ..

That IS funny ..


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 21, 2020, 12:58:36 PM

Took Ma to a local Asda, currently owned my Walmart - as they offered a 'Vulnerable' shopper's time - before 0900 ..

No-one checked to see anyone's status, but most folk seemed to be it the right category ( Carer with vulnerable person)

No pasta, little toilet paper, hand sanitiser or bread /  pasta making ingredients available ...


I guess Trench had been in with his G.Grandmother, already ! ...

Lol, yeah it was the same way when I visited a couple of supermarket's at opening time in the morning last week. Same stuff out off stock, same stuff out today and more so, alcohol, also low on a lot of confectionery, savoury snacks, etc.

A lot of the shelf stackers in the Sainsbury's supermarket I visited today were stacking from a shopping trolley, that is how low on stock they now are! No roll cages.

Personally I think these supermarkets actually have a bigger supply problem than they are letting on. I think with the emptyness of shelves in the supermarkets that there is actually now a very real shortage.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 21, 2020, 01:09:17 PM
Trench, these people you belittle are working hard and when coming off shift expect to be able to eat ... but SELFISH gits, like you, have stocked up and gathered with family ... the EXACT opposite of recommendations

You don't think
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 21, 2020, 01:14:39 PM
Well anyway spent a bit of time away from today. With yesterday's announcement on the shutting of gym's I referred to the local gym I go to. I pay up front for a number of months and only just renewed a month or so ago. I had hoped that this Coronavirus would not spread quite this rapidly and I needed to get down the gym just a bit more as I think I am on the verge of a personal break through in getting this athletic thing licked.

Well I hadn't been for the last few weeks as things came up then I decided that it had just gotten too risky to go as coughs and germs are rife to be shared in a communal gym environment. So I was losing out on membership I had paid for so as I had not intended to go again till this thing is over it was kind of better for me that they closed all gyms. My gym has put out a notice that they are going to put all membership on hold. I may still try and get a refund as I can't put my workouts on hold for long before I start to lose the small amount of progress I have made to date.

With that I have decided to go down the home gym route. I've got some stuff over the years already and so just have to get a couple of cheap exercise equipment of Amazon & eBay. In the past I have been short of suitable space but I think I have the answer to that now and will be able to do a small home gym area that will work and be used without being too makeshift and/or awkward. I know a lot of home gym attempts don't work out but I think I can master this one :) When lockdown comes around hopefully I will have it all set up and it will be nice to do in the spring/summer and have some leisure time to enjoy even if we all end up being confined to our houses, etc.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 21, 2020, 01:17:15 PM
Trench, these people you belittle are working hard and when coming off shift expect to be able to eat ... but SELFISH gits, like you, have stocked up and gathered with family ... the EXACT opposite of recommendations

You don't think

Mobe, they are gullible and have been hoodwinked by the media/government. Those that believed that tosh will be queing up in line shortly with long waits ahead off them outside supermarkets. I told you who the smart money was and wasn't on Mobers ;D
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 21, 2020, 01:46:13 PM
Mobe, they are gullible and have been hoodwinked by the media/government. Those that believed that tosh will be queing up in line shortly with long waits ahead off them outside supermarkets. I told you who the smart money was and wasn't on Mobers ;D

No Trench,

They are the sort of people that think of others

Then you wonder why you can't find a woman ... ?

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 21, 2020, 01:51:04 PM
A friend in the UK sent this to me.  It's from a forum she reads.  This is why China was able to contain the virus -
This post was composed without the aid of google.

Thanks for passing that on Boethius.

Does help to put things into perspective.  Also supports views expressed by the Chinese medical team that was sent here to help out, who stated that the 'lockdown' in Italy is not enough and that all activity should stop. Numbers here still continue to rise and testing is up to over 26,000 per day. Restrictions and especially controls/enforcement jumped up a notch in some northern areas and many more being caught outside with excuses like 'I was going to get a pack of cigs two towns away from their residence.

 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on March 21, 2020, 02:21:36 PM
A friend in the UK sent this to me.  It's from a forum she reads.  This is why China was able to contain the virus -
This post was composed without the aid of google.

Ive spent quite a bit of time in China, and will say that's a PR piece
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 21, 2020, 02:43:56 PM
Thanks for passing that on Boethius.

Does help to put things into perspective.  Also supports views expressed by the Chinese medical team that was sent here to help out, who stated that the 'lockdown' in Italy is not enough and that all activity should stop. Numbers here still continue to rise and testing is up to over 26,000 per day. Restrictions and especially controls/enforcement jumped up a notch in some northern areas and many more being caught outside with excuses like 'I was going to get a pack of cigs two towns away from their residence.

It could be political suicide for western politicians to try a China style lockdown. I believe their strategy is to flatten the curve during the first outbreak. The next step would be to try to identify every infected individual in society and remove them from society using mass produced test kits that is available to all. If that doesn’t work and no cure is found, eventually we will have to try a Chinese style lockdown. China may be successful with their lockdown but they would still have to ban entry into their nation from those who reside in nations that have infections. They didn’t like the travel bans applied on them but they wouldn’t hesitate to do it to everybody else to protect their nation.

China’s economy was hit hard and still taking a hit but they will recover before we do. They can in turn buy up our property , businesses and stocks at rock bottom prices. Better learn to speak Chinese.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 21, 2020, 03:03:48 PM
Silly BillyB doesn't 'get' economics ..

China wants and needs it's clients to recover ...   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 21, 2020, 03:15:57 PM
OMG!!!  Un-Freaking Believable!!!!

so in my neighborhood, there are a whole bunch of sex orgies going on at this very moment, a BUNCH!!!!
not only is it unparalleled HOW MANY orgies are happening SIMULTANEOUSLY.....
but the size of each individual orgy has reached some new stratospheric, never before even dreamed of height, and the next one doubles in size compared to the previous one!!!

my daughter told me they’re “IYP” partys, that means “Infect Your Parents”
yup....

rich kids hoping to infect mom and dad and collect an early inheritance
by doing so, not only do they not ever have to work a day in their life,
hell they can even drop out of college...
and do “whatever”
no more, "keep your room clean BS either"
every wealthy parent will be dead in 6 months....

my daughter waved hello to some as we drove past....
when she and her sister helped me bury the gold
I saw them looking at each other strangely out of the corner of their eyes...
but then they quickly changed their facial expressions...
I think I am beginning to understand what that look meant...

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on March 21, 2020, 03:27:29 PM
Krimster, you are one sick puppy!!!   I have no idea why the moderators allow you to continue to post.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 21, 2020, 03:32:03 PM
yo Rocket Man
you got kids, don't turn your back on them
they WILL... ALL OF THEM, turn on you and TRY TO INFECT YOU!!!
even your OWN KIDS!!!
it's happening EVERYWHERE!!!

not only are YOUR KIDS trying to infect you, other people's kids are deliberately trying to infect you as well!!!!!
DELIBERATELY!!!

this hasn't happened to you yet?????
you haven't witnessed it when you've been in a store for example?
younger person approaching older person from behind and coughing then quickly running away
and then the same person, you see them a couple of minutes doing it to some other older person?
then as they walk away, they have a malicious smirk on their face
seriously?
next time you're out in a store, step back and watch for a couple of minutes....
you'll see it!!!!

one infected young person can kill more people than 10 suicide vests can
and THEY KNOW IT and THEY"RE ALREADY USING IT!!!!
I'm telling you, I saw it with my own eyes today!!!
YOUNG PEOPLE ARE DELIBERATELY SPREADING THE VIRUS - BECAUSE THEY THINK IT WILL ONLY KILL OLD PEOPLE!!!!
none of them are in the least bit worried about this virus!!!
in fact, just the opposite!!!!!

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 21, 2020, 03:57:38 PM
No Trench,

They are the sort of people that think of others

Then you wonder why you can't find a woman ... ?

Mobe, FSW want a strong man, currently that's the ones of us that are holding gas masks ;D
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 21, 2020, 04:06:09 PM
Billy,

Containment will get much harsher before it gets better, for all of us. Within the next week, the situation will become much more 'real' as the extent and effects of the virus come out of the woodwork from more widespread testing. 

Taking Italy, we don't know when the peak will be reached.  I think we are near but could well be wrong.  When the peak has been identified we will not be 'halfway home' as much will still have to be done to keep a second or even third wave of infections from happening to those that have not been infected.  Travel in general and especially international travel will remain very restricted.

After this 'peak' is over we will all end up getting tested, or 'certified' if you will and be segregated accordingly until a proven and a working vaccine is available.  Not something like the flu vaccine with efficacy of 50% but something like 95% or more.  Only then will life begin to become more normal.

Until then, the largest group, with or without acquired resistance will naturally be accorded more freedom than the other group.  That's democracy for ya.  Some countries may quarantine those with resistance and other countries might 'free' those that do have resistance.  We may well end up seeing things like a positive and negative box to tick when making an airline booking with the two groups flying on different flights to selected destinations that will accept that group. Even hotel bookings.  Segregated hospitals will surely be in the mix along with which friends and family one can visit or not.

The only real solution is a vaccine. But... before this happens we will have to know whether this virus mutates over time like influenza - whether or not new strains appear that might affect the efficacy of any vaccines that have been developed.  Remember we have not been that awful successful when it comes to normal influenza vaccines.  We can't change the speed of time.

Only one thing is sure... this process will take time and much more than many think we will need today.

What I fear is not so much this virus, but the negative effects long term isolation will have on society and of course the economy.  I consider myself very lucky with a somewhat isolated home I work from, enough land to stay safely outside, start a sizeable veggie garden (already have seeds etc) and keep a decent number of small farm animals if need be.  Others are not so lucky, cooped up in small apartments, have lost their job or business.  It is difficult to imagine how such conditions will affect otherwise 'sane' minds over an extended period of time.  Can a sense of purpose, support and hope prevail that prevent us from going totally postal?  Will the 'solution' that can only come from those wearing lab coats come quick enough?

Over the next months, we are going to learn a whole lot about ourselves, and our society as a whole.

 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 21, 2020, 04:12:13 PM
Krimster, you are one sick puppy!!!   I have no idea why the moderators allow you to continue to post.

Maybe it's the artistic value of his posts.  His last post would be an interesting plot for a porn series.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 21, 2020, 04:24:50 PM

I've now been in isolation for two months in China.  It may surprise you to learn that I am not in Wuhaan or even Hubei Province, but Wuxi, a city in Jiangsu, over 700 Km away from the epicenter of the virus.

The impression created in the Western media is that by asking the residents of one city to self-isolate, China managed to bring the outbreak under control. It’s a dangerous misconception leading to a cavalier attitude and the false assumption that putting London in lockdown would somehow make things right. The truth is that China’s measures went far beyond anything imaginable in Western cultures and extended, at the worst of the epidemic, from Guangdong Province in the South to beyond Beijing in the North.

News of the virus made little impact outside of Hubei until shortly before Chinese New Year. The holiday is a time of mass migration when workers in the cities generally return to their hometowns to visit family. Faced with the prospect of millions of people moving around the country and potentially spreading the virus further, on January 23rd we went into official lockdown.

Initially we were told that the week-long New Year Holiday would be extended by a few days but as time passed and schools were closed indefinitely, we realized that we were in for the long haul. Today, two months later, some of the stricter controls here are starting to be relaxed but we are still in lockdown mode. Our business, a restaurant is still closed by order and this will not be reviewed until April 1st at the earliest. There is no confirmed date for schools reopening and movement is still highly restricted.

Overnight, the security guards at the gate of our complex were equipped with thermometers and our temperatures were taken each time we passed. Registering an elevated temperature carried a constant fear of being reported to the authorities and quarantined. We were fortunate in being allowed relatively unrestricted access to and from our home but for many of our friends, only one person per apartment was allowed out to buy supplies every two or three days. No deliveries were allowed into the complex and a makeshift collection point was set up at the gates. No visitors were allowed and social gatherings prohibited. All cars were stopped on roads and highways as police conducted detailed questioning about recent movements and checked temperatures. Long distance travel between provinces was either suspended or reduced.

The Chinese mobilized technology to establish highly sophisticated movement and contact tracing. There is almost universal usage of WeChat (social media) and AliPay (payment system) here so everyone was required to register and give a detailed description of their current location and recent travel history. Based on this we received a QR code and our estimated risk-level. We needed to scan this to gain access to a supermarket or public building. As a result, I have friends who received a knock on their doors and were taken into official quarantine for two weeks because someone on their incoming flight or in the supermarket at the same time had tested positive for the virus. A friend has just returned from Europe (a day before mandatory quarantine for returning European travellers was imposed) and is now in compulsory lockdown in her apartment. Movement is monitored by app; the complex management has electronically sealed her windows and doors. Trapped with 4 children and with her husband who had not travelled moving into a hotel to avoid quarantine, this is unbelievably hard to navigate in good spirits but she understands, as do we all, that it’s necessary. If it all sounds very 1984, that’s because it is! But ultimately this testing, contact tracing, and shutting down chains of transmission, is what stopped the virus from spreading.

In spite of this use of technology, one hangover from the early days of the Mao era is the habit of physically pasting notices and public announcements onto the doors of homes. As such we learned within hours of the lockdown that all weddings and funerals (or at least attendance at funerals) were to be cancelled, the wearing of protective masks was compulsory and that financial incentives would be offered to those who reported undocumented travellers from Hubei province. There has been much discussion about the efficiency of using surgical masks but one thing is for certain, the physical act of having to put on a mask, wearing it and seeing others do so, focuses the mind! It is impossible to “forget” that there is an epidemic. It never feels ok to drop your guard and as such, remembering to wash your hands thoroughly and use sanitizer and wipes becomes second nature. That small strip of surgical mask becomes a constant reminder of potential danger and the need to protect yourself and those around you.

Pharmacies were immediately prohibited from selling any pain/fever/symptom relief medication; the logic being that self-medication was detrimental to the public good and that anyone displaying symptoms should be under the care of the medical profession, allowing cases to be documented and all contacts traced. This caused us endless problems as our daughter is currently staying with us. She is an AS sufferer who came from the UK for the holidays and has since been trapped! As she is on a schedule of TNF inhibitors she is immune-compromised and as such is in a high-risk category. Flying (on the one or two routes still open) was too risky. Now that the danger is subsiding at this end, flying back into an uncertain situation in the UK seems equally challenging. We found extraordinary generosity from friends who shared what medical supplies they had. In Wuhan, HIV patients, who are often vilified and ostracized in society, willingly donated their meds to trial therapies in an act of selfless compassion that was truly humbling.


Thanks for that accounting.   

It is obvious that China has done something very right.  Their people and system shows how much they can and will sacrifice for the greater good.   I was out and about doing my 'essential' job and saw 100's of people maybe even 1000's...and we are on 'lockdown' here in California.    We in the states have no real willingness  to follow instruction like they do in china.   Which is why we will have to face martial law, if the virus turns out to be as deadly as it seems it could be here in the states.   

If the way China handled it, is the real solution, then the hoarders are going to be the ones living best for a month or two...or maybe longer.

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 21, 2020, 04:34:24 PM
yo Rocket Man
you got kids, don't turn your back on them
they WILL... ALL OF THEM, turn on you and TRY TO INFECT YOU!!!
even your OWN KIDS!!!
it's happening EVERYWHERE!!!

 
Gave my kids a big hug but I'm not dead just yet!
Perhaps I"m 'essential' to the family.  Reminds me of the one armed digger or the lucky hinge maker who thought of themselves as 'essential workers' in Schinder's list.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IyZuKT7A4LU/TmqA53NZPpI/AAAAAAAAAMU/IyesRMLkymM/s1600/schindlerslistweek+3+blog.jpg)

Fathertime! 





Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 21, 2020, 04:44:27 PM
Mobe, FSW want a strong man, currently that's the ones of us that are holding gas masks ;D


How's that 'strong man' stance working out for you from your parent's place in Dorset ? ...


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 21, 2020, 04:46:54 PM
Warning Justice department power grab. The Justice department
has enough power and congress should be very wary of giving
them any more. The way they do this is by asking for more
power just during the Coronovirus emergency.

For those who are curious you can do a google search to see
how many emergencies were ever rescinded. They have national
emergencies still in effect from when Jimmy Carter was president.   

If any emergency powers are designated they should sunset the
emergency powers in the bill itself. For example give them 90
days and then they must go to congress to extend them for
another 90 days.

DOJ seeks new emergency powers amid coronavirus pandemic
http://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/21/doj-coronavirus-emergency-powers-140023


DOJ Wants to Suspend Constitutional Rights During Coronavirus Emergency

Rolling Stone   
Peter Wade

http://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/doj-wants-suspend-constitutional-rights-205444026.html


Here's a list of the 31 national emergencies that have been in effect for years
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list-31-national-emergencies-effect-years/story?id=60294693

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 21, 2020, 05:00:30 PM
Warning Justice department power grab. The Justice department
has enough power and congress should be very wary of giving

Trump is trying to keep the new unemployment numbers secret.  He wants to be announced as 'high' rather than the new unemployment claim number.  Let's just have the same transparency on the numbers.

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 21, 2020, 05:04:20 PM
Cepheid (http://www.statnews.com/2020/03/21/coronavirus-test-returns-results-in-45-minutes/), a Sunnyvale company, released a test kit that yields result in 45 minutes. While shipments will begin next week, in reading the article, there seem to be apprehension in its distribution.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 21, 2020, 05:07:26 PM

How's that 'strong man' stance working out for you from your parent's place in Dorset ? ...

Well enough so far :) and you? What are your plans now? I know I don't need to ask about the forthcoming divorce papers you've proved your mastery in that domain countless times. But what about the next relationship? A local lass or hold on for the long wait for borders to reopen?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 21, 2020, 05:08:00 PM
If Trump locked down the nation using the National Guard and military as the enforcement I'd support and trust he was doing the right thing.    It may be kinda late now though.  It is also possible that Trump and his people have made a calculated decision that a lot of people are going to wind up dead, but that number is acceptable given the lack of good options. 

800 dead today in Italy...that is a high total for 1 day. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 21, 2020, 05:08:54 PM
Looks like Ukraine has lost control of the situation:

http://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/ukraine-confirms-record-15-coronavirus-cases-in-one-day-total-rises-to-41.html

It'll be a fact of life for them all too soon as well now.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 21, 2020, 05:11:23 PM
If Trump locked down the nation using the National Guard and military as the enforcement I'd support and trust he was doing the right thing.    It may be kinda late now though.  It is also possible that Trump and his people have made a calculated decision that a lot of people are going to wind up dead, but that number is acceptable given the lack of good options. 

800 dead today in Italy...that is a high total for 1 day. 

Fathertime!

Jesus 800 dead in one day!!! They won't know where to put them. Must be a depressingly morbid sight.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on March 21, 2020, 05:42:00 PM
Wife reports some good actions in  Ukraine.

Many persons with autos have been offering to give free rides to those who need and who are authorized.

Some hotels have offered free rooms to medical personnel who cannot get back and forth now because of shut down of all transportation.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 21, 2020, 05:51:48 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2020/03/21/us/toilet-paper-calculator-coronavirus-trnd/index.html

you can take this handy calculator, and figure out what the global demand curve for TP  is gonna be...
and then...
if you KNEW there were some RATHER LARGE pending supply problems that you heard from the ipsnay company-eh rep-eh
that was gonna send TP futures to "THE MOON!"
and then...
you heard here about bulk TP investment opportunities...
just for YOU!!!

then you'd better get it on the ground floor before you miss the only positive investment you'll ever make this year

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 21, 2020, 06:34:55 PM
Could be a learning experience for readers of this board to see whether SC sticks with you or cuts you loose. Being so far apart and for an potentially unknown length of time one or either of you might decide it's better to move on with your now very separate lives.

Proves yet again you know little about love.  I was separated from the better half for years.  It made our bond stronger, not weaker.

Ive spent quite a bit of time in China, and will say that's a PR piece

The account conforms with those of a Ukrainian relative who has been teaching Russian in Central China for five years.  It also conforms with accounts of relatives of our daughter's university friends.  When Quebec cancelled classes and quarantined students, they all flew back to China for the summer.

I just posted that account because it wasn't in the drips and drabs others have given us over time.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 21, 2020, 07:17:32 PM


one infected young person can kill more people than 10 suicide vests can
and THEY KNOW IT and THEY"RE ALREADY USING IT!!!!
I'm telling you, I saw it with my own eyes today!!!
YOUNG PEOPLE ARE DELIBERATELY SPREADING THE VIRUS - BECAUSE THEY THINK IT WILL ONLY KILL OLD PEOPLE!!!!
none of them are in the least bit worried about this virus!!!
in fact, just the opposite!!!!!
Looks like it is called "operation Boomer removal"  just lovely. 
Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 21, 2020, 07:40:47 PM
Didi madloba  Maxx !


If my business ever opens you and SC are welcome to dine there on the house! *


* For the first time of course!  ;D



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 21, 2020, 07:50:22 PM
I was born in 1953, but I grew up with the World War 2 generation. It feels like those times again.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 21, 2020, 09:37:36 PM

Got some good news to report.

1) A couple of days ago my wife's friend was in the biggest hospital in Seattle which is located in King County, hardest hit county, and she said the hospital wasn't busy.

2) Washington State governor yesterday said he didn't think it was necessary to order people to isolate in place. Only a few States have done so which tells me USA's curve will be flatter than other Western nations. Our government did a lot of right things.

3) Went on a road trip with the wife and she wanted to stop in Costco. They had toilet paper but she didn't buy any since I bought a case awhile back.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 22, 2020, 12:16:00 AM
Well enough so far :) and you? What are your plans now?

Trench,

My plans are to TRY to protect my Mum from getting the virus .

I know I don't need to ask about the forthcoming divorce papers you've proved your mastery in that domain countless times. But what about the next relationship? A local lass or hold on for the long wait for borders to reopen?



You're 'right'..about us being 'separated' ..SC is being 'capricious and a handful'..  She 'never' calls in the mornings to say how she is and gives me no reason to miss her  :popcorn:

(http://i.imgur.com/bqa08ygt.jpg)

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 22, 2020, 01:01:37 AM
Wife reports some good actions in  Ukraine.

Many persons with autos have been offering to give free rides to those who need and who are authorized.

Some hotels have offered free rooms to medical personnel who cannot get back and forth now because of shut down of all transportation.

Free? In Ukraine, all are surely scams! ;D
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 22, 2020, 01:05:22 AM
Trench,

My plans are to TRY to protect my Mum from getting the virus .



You're 'right'..about us being 'separated' ..SC is being 'capricious and a handful'..  She 'never' calls in the mornings to say how she is and gives me no reason to miss her  :popcorn:

(http://i.imgur.com/bqa08ygt.jpg)

Given how you fouled up with SC being stuck apart from you I don't hold out much hope for your mother, she could literally end up anywhere to fend for herself, lol :ROFL:

I'm sure it won't be long before SC realises how long you are likely to be separated and finds comfort in the hands of a 'real man' ;)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 22, 2020, 01:16:56 AM
Coronavirus deaths up to 323 in the US but it's a big country to make its way through:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/03/22/health/us-coronavirus-wrap-sunday/index.html

Italy annouces stricker measures to deal with the virus:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51991972

Not looking good BC.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 22, 2020, 01:32:23 AM
Given how you fouled up with SC being stuck apart from you I don't hold out much hope for your mother, she could literally end up anywhere to fend for herself, lol :ROFL:

Trench, are you always this emphatic..?  I can 'see' how you so easily 'pull' .. ;D

IF we had actually REALLY fouled up ...SC would be in Cyprus - locked up ..and IF you read the news .. Cypriots have proven to be THE most xenophobic nation in the EU ...



 
I'm sure it won't be long before SC realises how long you are likely to be separated and finds comfort in the hands of a 'real man' ;)

Let's see on that one ... You've posted it for all to judge ..  :rolleyes:
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 22, 2020, 03:06:34 AM
Was watching a repeat of FA Cup football games and already the roar of a crowd made me pine for the day we'd bot blink an eyelid at being in such close proximity with others....
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 22, 2020, 03:27:25 AM
One thing is pretty sure now, that rolling out new containment measures in steps is going to be less effective than just putting a stop to everything.  A leaky faucet with even a slow drip will still fill up the bucket.

Controls and fines here going up along with a full stop to non-essential businesses.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 22, 2020, 05:42:04 AM
http://www.chron.com/news/medical/article/Virus-rebels-from-France-to-Florida-flout-15148783.php

they're called "Virus Rebels"
it's why I NOW openly wear a pistol when I am out...
virus rebels avoid armed boomers...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 22, 2020, 06:58:18 AM
We are still playing golf in Florida, refreshed by spring breezes from the Gulf of Mexico and extensive forests. 

More walkers than carts these days.  My course is spread out amid wetlands, so the distances from greens to tees adds another 3,000+ yards, making carts a necessary for us seniors.  Carts  limited to single riders, disinfected before and after, and BYOB (no water on the course). 

Other changes:

-  Rake sand bunkers with your feet
-  Do no pickup another player's ball or club. 
-  Leave pins in (love the new rule)
-  In my group, some debate about no wagering (avoid exchange of money).

When I return home, the Coronavirus Gestapo greets me.  Disrobing, showering, disinfecting in the mudroom (which is now mine, and only mine).   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 22, 2020, 08:20:28 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51991972


New York Governor Andrew Cuomo hit out at young people who he claims have been ignoring orders not to gather in groups. He said that he planned to visit a park "to see what the situation is myself".

"I don't care frankly. This is a public health issue and you cannot be endangering other peoples' health," he said. "You shouldn't be endangering your own."

If it's happening in NY, it's happening elsewhere. There's a reason schools are closed to keep kids away from each other. I passed by a park Friday and seen about 50 teens playing basketball and none were practicing social distancing. They look like they were from ghetto and white trash families. Probably didn't get educated by the parents. Also Government and media been educating people it's mostly old people that die. That does not help keep the kids in the house. We need to put some fear into those kids otherwise this virus will be around a lot longer.

While the value of private companies tank, Germany to block foreign takeovers. Smart move that more countries will probably follow.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/germany-block-foreign-takeovers-avoid-160551732.html
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 22, 2020, 08:28:46 AM
Looks like many UK stores are choosing to close voluntarily:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51995189

Parks in London are also being shut. To my mind it looks like we are now increasingly moving towards a lockdown situation of the entire country. I think odds are these stores have had the heads up that its coming and due to few people visiting have decided to make the call today.

It could well be that this coming week will see more & more lockdown measures in the daily briefings from Downing Street. One by one stuff will likely be ordered to close rather than one big lockdown announcement I think. The last will come at the end in terms of the 'don't go to work or travel'. We're probably only a week or so away from that I reckon.

Numbers are starting to climb here now and I think the government will be moving to more locksdown measures to avoid the numbers skyrocketing like in Italy.

From Italy's example though it looks like we will have to go in more harder more sooner towards a total lockdown. It's probably going to be pretty much house arrest situation for every citizen of every nation I reckon.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 22, 2020, 08:35:59 AM
Most xenophobic, wasn't that long ago you were giving that title to the UK, lol.

Inattentive, as ever..   RACIST..was the term I used 

Mobe, if you had listened to posters here several weeks ago and stopped being one of the cocky ones plane travelling oblivious to the oncoming crisis you would have gotten SC back to the UK pronto BEFORE any quarentining was put in place.

You and BillyB are daft enough to 'go on' about this...

SC and I agreed that she would NOT spend any virus 'lockdown' with her M-i-L ...  We could have met up and been together in FR or CY - that was the plan - but I am in the best position to care for Ma...  with whom I'm on day 2 in self isolation..possibly for 3 months

SC STILL has the right to come in the UK ...as a resident ...she is designated category 2 ( no quarantine requirements ) - as of yesterday  from Thailand

Clear ?






 

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 22, 2020, 09:01:06 AM
Inattentive, as ever..   RACIST..was the term I used 

You and BillyB are daft enough to 'go on' about this...

SC and I agreed that she would NOT spend any virus 'lockdown' with her M-i-L ...  We could have met up and been together in FR or CY - that was the plan - but I am in the best position to care for Ma...  with whom I'm on day 2 in self isolation..possibly for 3 months

SC STILL has the right to come in the UK ...as a resident ...she is designated category 2 ( no quarantine requirements ) - as of yesterday  from Thailand

Clear ?


If SC is allowed in the UK, move out of your momma's basement, get your place and bring your wife home.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 22, 2020, 09:14:19 AM

If SC is allowed in the UK, move out of your momma's basement, get your place and bring your wife home.

Really, Silly BillyB can you be THAT thick ?

My mother has Alzeimers and cannot got out for 3 months - nor can anyone caring for her ... she has poor auto-immune functionality

I CHOSE to look after her as my bro and sister need to work / have younger kids ..


http://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-shielding-and-protecting-extremely-vulnerable-persons-from-covid-19/guidance-on-shielding-and-protecting-extremely-vulnerable-persons-from-covid-19 (http://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-shielding-and-protecting-extremely-vulnerable-persons-from-covid-19/guidance-on-shielding-and-protecting-extremely-vulnerable-persons-from-covid-19)






Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 22, 2020, 09:28:53 AM
Really, Silly BillyB can you be THAT thick ?

My mother has Alzeimers and cannot got out for 3 months - nor can anyone caring for her ... she has poor auto-immune functionality

I CHOSE to look after her as my bro and sister need to work / have younger kids ..


Your mom isn't your only responsibility. You have a wife. You have responsibilities just like your brother and sister do. Who took care of your mom when you were living in Cyprus and travelling all over the world for business? Your brother and sister do not need to work 24 hours a day. Move out of your mom's basement, get your own place, and bring your wife home. Rotate with your brothers and sisters to take care of your mom. Another option is all siblings chip in to hire someone to look after your mom. Every time someone here gives you good advice, you find a reason why following good advice can't be done.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on March 22, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
GenMish,

For those that do get the 'bug' and survive, hopefully some resistance will have been acquired.  Once testing is more widespread and cannot infect others they are likely those that will have the first step out their doors with more free movement.  It may come down to .gov providing certifications.  Those that test negative will likely have to watch out and stay more isolated for some time to come. 

May does seem a bit early.  I don't foresee all restrictions including travel being lifted this year. :/

Good call, I heard Thailand already wants a health certificate, however more ominous news.

"DUBAI, March 22 (Reuters) - Emirates, one of the world's biggest international airlines, will ground its entire passenger fleet this week and cut staff wages by as much as half because of the coronavirus and its impact on travel demand."

Makes you think that Level 4 Travel warning by the State Dept means ALL the airlines are going to shut down.

This really sucks for me, because intl travel is essential to my business.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 22, 2020, 09:54:59 AM
Inattentive, as ever..   RACIST..was the term I used 

You and BillyB are daft enough to 'go on' about this...

SC and I agreed that she would NOT spend any virus 'lockdown' with her M-i-L ...  We could have met up and been together in FR or CY - that was the plan - but I am in the best position to care for Ma...  with whom I'm on day 2 in self isolation..possibly for 3 months

SC STILL has the right to come in the UK ...as a resident ...she is designated category 2 ( no quarantine requirements ) - as of yesterday  from Thailand

Clear ?

Hmmnn, I notice that my post has been deleted but you have already cherry picked from it what you wish to hear.

Mobe, listen to BillyB he is TRYING TO HELP YOU. Forgot about any rubbish about it being a 3 month lockdown, its going to be WAY MORE THAN THAT. Boris only talked about a 12 week lockdown so as to ease the concerns of the nation. It will only be 12 weeks if house arrest style of quarentining comes in. That is very unlikely to happen effectively straight away. Look at the article above about what is happening in Italy, France & Germany, the population has been brought up free & easy and have no backbone for it, especially the young. The millennial generation in particular have been brought up as such precious little snowflakes who date not be told they can't do something for want of a tantrum that Police & Army guys will have to patrol the streets in a martial law situation ready to slap one of the buggers the moment they step onto the street.

Now is your Mother's abode of such a small nature that it can't accommodate your wife with an area she can inhabit as her own?

I would get her in now if I was you while there is still time. I think this thing could drag on for many months, many more than three. Then of course there is the situation of it taking off in Russia which may not necessarily end up in sycronisation with our own situation. So potentially having to wait many months after we finish with our own problem.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 22, 2020, 11:03:06 AM
Question to All:  Is anybody reading the exchanges between Moby and Trenchcoat? 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 22, 2020, 11:08:58 AM
Monday - New York Mayor Bill de Blasio (D) defended his decision for going to the gym with his staff. 

Today (Sunday) - de Blasio is in panic mode.  He demands the military mobilize and intervene in NYC.   He is also criticizing Trump's decisions. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 22, 2020, 11:11:02 AM
For those who sing the praises of socialized medicine, just remember:
Don't get old!
We no longer help those over 60
http://www.jpost.com/International/Israeli-doctor-in-Italy-We-no-longer-help-those-over-60-621856


In Italy’s Coronavirus Crisis, the Elderly Are Left to Die.
http://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-in-u-s-coronavirus-crisis-will-trump-save-the-elderly-or-condemn-them-to-death-1.8687478


A lack of resources could mean that younger, healthier patients are
prioritised, while others are left to die

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/14/coronavirus-outbreak-older-people-doctors-treatment-ethics


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 22, 2020, 11:12:36 AM
Jeez, when Silly Billy is on a roll of fails, he can't stop himself ..

Your mom isn't your only responsibility.

My Wife doesn't have Alzheimer's

Who took care of your mom when you were living in Cyprus

*I* did .. I took her with me ... You DO understand that Alzheimer's is a progressive disease - that the patient's cognitive abilities and brain's capacity to regulate gets worse - not better ?

What applied even a month ago.. no longer holds true ..  Ma cannot be left alone ... PERIOD ...   Even when SC was here - we might have grabbed a 20 minute walk ..



and travelling all over the world for business?

Mum's younger sister and my Uncle cared for her - 'sis at weekends ... my trips had become long weekends - four days max..   Do you think we all live a few miles apart ?




Your brother and sister do not need to work 24 hours a day. Move out of your mom's basement, get your own place, and bring your wife home.

Yep - you are THAT thick ..

Did you read the link about advice for the vulnerable and isolation ?  Thought not ..



Rotate with your brothers and sisters to take care of your mom. Another option is all siblings chip in to hire someone to look after your mom. Every time someone here gives you good advice, you find a reason why following good advice can't be done.

Sure - a total stranger can come and live with Mum ... that day may well come - but *I* can still do that job better and we promised her that we're not going to take her out of her home and into a nursing home while she can still understand where she is ..


Silly BillyB, WHY do you 'advise' folks on stuff on subjects on which it is clear you have not the sl. clue ?




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 22, 2020, 11:19:30 AM
For those who sing the praises of socialized medicine, just remember:
Don't get old!
We no longer help those over 60
http://www.jpost.com/International/Israeli-doctor-in-Italy-We-no-longer-help-those-over-60-621856

Beel,

I am over 60 and read about how the shortage of staff / ventilators has caused such decisions to be made ..what sticks in my throat is your attempt to suggest this a failure on the part of social health care

You'd better worry about how many time fewer your / my nations' provisioning of ITU ( intensive car unit ) beds has available ....  Italy's was far higher and they cannot cope ...

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 22, 2020, 11:21:42 AM
If SC is allowed in the UK, move out of your momma's basement, get your place and bring your wife home.


Jeez, when Silly Billy is on a roll of fails, he can't stop himself ..


Gentlemen,


Let's keep the personal stuff out of the discussion at hand.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 22, 2020, 11:22:54 AM
Beel,

what sticks in my throat is your attempt to suggest this a failure on the part of social health care

Your poor throat.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 22, 2020, 11:23:17 AM
Question to All:  Is anybody reading the exchanges between Moby and Trenchcoat?

I guess they are as 'relevant' as someone who's still playing golf when the lesson we have to learn is social distancing


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 22, 2020, 11:24:14 AM
Your poor throat.

))

Very good.. now perhaps you can try not to obfuscate / deflect with witty 'ripostes' !
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 22, 2020, 11:31:36 AM
So much for trying to keep to the critical subject.  I drafted the following, and when time to post I see we have a couple of hissy fits. 

My final post if the COVID discussion remains interrupted:

I watched some CNN today.   The network had some interesting reports from health professionals.  The coverage was laced with many political contributors criticizing Trump, essential claiming Trump is failing as a leader.  Yep, the liberal strategy to frighten everyone in unfolding. 

If over half the press in 1932 were reporting that FDR will fail, would that have helped?

I agree with Governor Cuomo that the Federal Government needs to oversee the role of redistributing supplies of limited medical equipment among the states.   Supposedly FEMA is already involved; however, the particular role of the Feds and States is unclear.    Perhaps Cuomo is correct that the Feds need to do more. 

Trump's FEMA team claims that there is no need to invoke the Defense Production Act to order businesses to alter their manufacturing for the goal of  producing more medical equipment.  Why?   A preponderance of businesses have already volunteered to help and are taking direction from FEMA.             
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 22, 2020, 11:31:52 AM
Question to All:  Is anybody reading the exchanges between Moby and Trenchcoat?

No. After Moob's big shaming there's nothing of substance
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 22, 2020, 11:36:12 AM

Mobe, listen to BillyB he is TRYING TO HELP YOU.

Only you / he could still be in agreement on this ! 


Boris only talked about a 12 week lockdown so as to ease the concerns of the nation. It will only be 12 weeks if house arrest style of quarentining comes in.

Our 12 weeks applies to specific vulnerable medical issues ..

You seem to have missed that all the IDIOTS who have escaped the cities are being told .. "if you cannot social distance yourselves .. the govt will help you by ordering, same ..

"PM Boris Johnson warned the government would take "further measures" to enforce social distancing advice if it is not respected
He said he would think "very actively" about this over the next 24 hours
He said he wanted people to continue to be able to go to parks, but people should stay 2m (6f) away from others"



That is very unlikely to happen effectively straight away.

You're just not paying any attention ..

Now is your Mother's abode of such a small nature that it can't accommodate your wife with an area she can inhabit as her own?

Do you think someone with Alzheimer's appreciates where she could once go and a new rule that she cannot ?   Thank you for demonstrating you have NO concept of the condition ...





I would get her in now if I was you while there is still time. I think this thing could drag on for many months, many more than three. Then of course there is the situation of it taking off in Russia which may not necessarily end up in sycronisation with our own situation. So potentially having to wait many months after we finish with our own problem.

Trench, it is now several days since we discussed being apart ... We made our choices ..but thanks for the 'advice' ..




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 22, 2020, 11:38:02 AM
No. After Moob's big shaming there's nothing of substance

As always, Mr Mistake arrives on cue to deliver nothing of substance or accuracy ..     

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 22, 2020, 11:43:36 AM
))

Very good.. now perhaps you can try not to obfuscate / deflect with witty 'ripostes' !

Socialized medicine = rationed medicine

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 22, 2020, 11:45:51 AM
As always, Mr Mistake arrives on cue to deliver nothing of substance or accuracy ..   

You wouldn't know substance nor accuracy if it bit you on the ass
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 22, 2020, 11:51:40 AM
Just been announced that a 18 year-old with underlying health conditions has died in England of it.

I also think that it would be useful to know how many of these people contracting Coronavirus were using a regime of anti bacterial hand wash and doing the full 20 second wash as recommended. Such figures could be most enlightening to understanding how viruses spread.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 22, 2020, 11:58:51 AM
Monday - New York Mayor Bill de Blasio (D) defended his decision for going to the gym with his staff. 

Today (Sunday) - de Blasio is in panic mode.  He demands the military mobilize and intervene in NYC.   He is also criticizing Trump's decisions.


NY is getting a military hospital ship. Officials at the local and State level are looking for someone to blame for their mistakes. Although I educated myself about the virus early, Trump took action in January which confirmed my belief on how dangerous the virus was. Trump's actions were called racist by the officials that now criticize him. They should've seen what was going on back then in China, factor in that China's lies big time, and understood the ban on foreign nationals coming from China was a serious step against a serious problem but they failed to act. Officials at the local and State level have experts at their health departments they could've talked to. They don't have to wait for Trump. They could ban people from coming into their State, County, or City but they didn't and now they point the finger at Trump for not doing more to protect them. As leaders, they need to lead.

My teen son came over today needing some money to buy a car so I gave him some. He arrived in a friend's car with a couple of friends to see me. I never met those friends before but I was happy to see a bumper sticker on the car advertising a Christian radio station. I talked to my son about the virus and the reason kids are out of school and he needs to educated his friends on the importance of social distancing. I asked about his mom, my ex, who is a nurse at a hospital. He says she works in an office because she's head of a department but she comes out sometimes in full protective gear. She works on level 4 in her hospital and they are now accepting coronavirus patients on that level. He said his mom told him the face shield and other protective gear doesn't give 100% protection against the virus. It's safe to assume, anything less than a hazmat suit doesn't offer 100% protection.

Silly BillyB, WHY do you 'advise' folks on stuff on subjects on which it is clear you have not the sl. clue ?


For 5 years you told the forum that you couldn't marry your wife because you intentionally stayed married to your ex so your step some could get educational benefits in the UK. This virus thing can last years so 5 years from now you will be telling the forum you continue to live separate from your wife so you can take care of your mother. That's your future.

Trump's FEMA team claims that there is no need to invoke the Defense Production Act to order businesses to alter their manufacturing for the goal of  producing more medical equipment.  Why?   A preponderance of businesses have already volunteered to help and are taking direction from FEMA.
           

There are two types of articles coming out from the media. Trump is not doing enough and Trump may invoke the Defense Protection Act in a power grab. Trump can't win. Trump and Pence weeks ago visited 3M and other companies to start ramping up production. Trump even got Hanes, the underwear maker to retool their factories to make masks. The media doesn't want to report the things Trump done in the past and continues to do because it'll look like Trump is taking fast action against the virus. Keep in mind, Trump told the States many weeks ago they have the freedom to take actions without federal government permission.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 22, 2020, 12:02:02 PM

I watched some CNN today.   The network had some interesting reports from health professionals.  The coverage was laced with many political contributors criticizing Trump, essential claiming Trump is failing as a leader.  Yep, the liberal strategy to frighten everyone in unfolding. 


Does Trump not own the response?

I guess like most relationships it boils down to a trust issue.  With as much erroneous information I have heard from Trump, I don't get any warm and fuzzies as far as trust is concerned.

At least Pence is coherent and seems to have a better grasp on the subject despite giving a great Trimjob.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 22, 2020, 12:10:54 PM
Socialized medicine = rationed medicine

I can't say I agree with over 50 years living with universal care.  The only place I felt hesitant about having a procedure or test done was in the US.  Many Americans seem to have the same problem.  I guess 'self rationed' is better?  It certainly fits the circumstances.

If your comment refers to dealing with coronavirus, I guess that is yet to be seen.  By this coming Wednesday [or sooner] the US will be ranked Nr 2 in the world for infections and by the weekend [or sooner] Nr 1.  I sincerely hope you don't have to eat your words.


[added after seeing latest update]
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 22, 2020, 12:11:50 PM
Question to All:  Is anybody reading the exchanges between Moby and Trenchcoat?

I am.  I think Trench's need to "score" on the backs of moby's wife and Alzheimer's inflicted mother are reprehensible.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 22, 2020, 12:15:47 PM
For those who sing the praises of socialized medicine, just remember:
Don't get old!
We no longer help those over 60
http://www.jpost.com/International/Israeli-doctor-in-Italy-We-no-longer-help-those-over-60-621856 (http://www.jpost.com/International/Israeli-doctor-in-Italy-We-no-longer-help-those-over-60-621856)


In Italy’s Coronavirus Crisis, the Elderly Are Left to Die.
http://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-in-u-s-coronavirus-crisis-will-trump-save-the-elderly-or-condemn-them-to-death-1.8687478 (http://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-in-u-s-coronavirus-crisis-will-trump-save-the-elderly-or-condemn-them-to-death-1.8687478)


A lack of resources could mean that younger, healthier patients are
prioritised, while others are left to die

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/14/coronavirus-outbreak-older-people-doctors-treatment-ethics (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/14/coronavirus-outbreak-older-people-doctors-treatment-ethics)


Italy has private healthcare as well as "socialized" medicine.  Were the US facing the same situation as Italy (over 60% of the population is over 40, 23% over 65), you would be facing the exact same thing.  The delays in COVID-19 testing in the US should be a reminder of this.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 22, 2020, 12:16:52 PM
Just been announced that a 18 year-old with underlying health conditions has died in England of it.

I also think that it would be useful to know how many of these people contracting Coronavirus were using a regime of anti bacterial hand wash and doing the full 20 second wash as recommended. Such figures could be most enlightening to understanding how viruses spread.


 :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:   Experts already know how viruses spread.  That's why they are suggesting social isolation.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 22, 2020, 12:22:30 PM
Beel - just wondering ... have you ever had to use 'social medicine' in Europe ...?

I've experienced both US style private and Europe style social care ....  there's NO contest ..  Social - every time ..

Socialized medicine = rationed medicine

If I hadn't pointed out how the US and UK were far worse off re ITU beds, your 'riposte' would only have been ignorance .. now it's 'trolling'


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 22, 2020, 12:24:46 PM
You wouldn't know substance nor accuracy if it bit you on the ass

The subject of this thread is plans re the virus ... YOU've only arrived to troll - hence my point ..
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 22, 2020, 12:33:33 PM
By this coming Wednesday the US will be ranked Nr 2 in the world for infections and by the weekend Nr 1.


Total infections isn't the number Americans need to be worried about since we have a huge population. Percentage of people infected is the number we all need to be worried about. Western Europe has a high percentage of their population infected compared to the rest of the world with the exception of Iran. Our hospitals are not full of patients although the media continues to try to make it sound like it's all Trump's fault. Trump's early actions on foreign nationals is why our hospitals aren't full. Eventually most of America's problems with infections came from those travelling from Western Europe, not China, so Trump took action on Europe which was not approved by European leaders.

America, with a population of 331 million has 30,293 cases. Germany, France, UK, Italy, Spain and Switzerland has a total population of 333 million and they have a total of 132,862 cases which is over 4 times more than America has and those European countries combined continue to register more daily cases of new infections than America. Maybe their leaders need to be criticized more than Trump for underestimating the virus? Maybe China needs to be criticized more than Trump for not being transparent about it early on and losing control of it? Maybe WHO needs to be criticized for saying it's safe to travel in and out of China and didn't recommend a travel ban. Why is it popular to beat up on Trump? Massive lives will be lost and economies will crash over the next few years. Trump is not to blame. Trump has been doing a better job than most World leaders pertaining to virus control and keeping our hospitals empty. Who cares if we are currently short on medical supplies if nobody needs them.

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 22, 2020, 12:36:42 PM

 :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:   Experts already know how viruses spread.  That's why they are suggesting social isolation.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

The 'experts' don't know enough, once again they are carried away with their own arrogance. They are essentially using the same system that was used in medieval times against the bubonic plague. The 'experts' thinking hasn't evolved any more from that :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 22, 2020, 12:40:49 PM
ROFL.  Sure.  Physicians in the 14th century could see microscopic slides of the bubonic plague. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:   Unlike in the Middle Ages, scientists don't believe COVID-19 is caused by movement of the planets, or bad air, or as a punishment from God.

How the virus is transmitted is well known.  How it reacts in most bodies is also well known.  How to kill it once it is within the body, or innoculate a person so the virus won't cause damage, is unknown at this point.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 22, 2020, 12:41:31 PM
Billy,

The only substantiation for your hypothesis is the low number of tests processed in the US.

argumentum ad ignorantiam
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 22, 2020, 12:51:03 PM
Billy,

The only substantiation for your hypothesis is the low number of tests processed in the US.

argumentum ad ignorantiam

I told you before and I'll tell you again, what's going on in hospitals matters more than tests. America's hospitals aren't dealing with the same fires Western Europe's hospitals are facing. When tests are finished in America, we are going to learn what we already know and that is Europe will get hit harder than America. You trust your leaders more than Trump but you need to direct more of your anger where it belongs and that is on your leaders, China, and WHO for the mess you're dealing with.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 22, 2020, 12:51:54 PM
Beel - just wondering ... have you ever had to use 'social medicine' in Europe ...?

I've experienced both US style private and Europe style social care ....  there's NO contest ..  Social - every time ..

If I hadn't pointed out how the US and UK were far worse off re ITU beds, your 'riposte' would only have been ignorance .. now it's 'trolling'

Then stick to the subject Mr Troll Moobs
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 22, 2020, 12:57:53 PM
Then stick to the subject Mr Troll Moobs

Who of us raised 'socialiSed' medical care, again ?

'Thank you ' - you're as 'attentive' to fact, as ever..
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 22, 2020, 01:02:17 PM
ROFL.  Sure.  Physicians in the 14th century could see microscopic slides of the bubonic plague. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:   Unlike in the Middle Ages, scientists don't believe COVID-19 is caused by movement of the planets, or bad air, or as a punishment from God.

How the virus is transmitted is well known.  How it reacts in most bodies is also well known.  How to kill it once it is within the body, or innoculate a person so the virus won't cause damage, is unknown at this point.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

You are wrong. Actually how it is transmitted is not well known about, there is only an idea of how it is transmitted, an in depth conclusion on the subject is still yet unobtained.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 22, 2020, 01:11:29 PM
I told you before and I'll tell you again, what's going on in hospitals matters more than tests. America's hospitals aren't dealing with the same fires Western Europe's hospitals are facing. When tests are finished in America, we are going to learn what we already know and that is Europe will get hit harder than America. You trust your leaders more than Trump but you need to direct more of your anger where it belongs and that is on your leaders, China, and WHO for the mess you're dealing with.

MY anger is directed at those who don't listen to good advice ..

We're ahead of you in this curve and many of your words are going to look REALLY Silly, Billy, v..soon..

I take NO pleasure in what I'm saying ... many of MY words re this disease are already looking STUPID  on reflection ..

I've just listened to a early forties doctor who's on the front line ... We have NO idea what's coming .. the UK / US are above the curve...   We aren't flattening it and Gator still thinks playing golf is 'OK' ...I'd have agreed with him a day ago ..

The Doctor is just saying - stay indoors, isolate..


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0877mb2









Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 22, 2020, 01:14:49 PM
You are wrong. Actually how it is transmitted is not well known about, there is only an idea of how it is transmitted, an in depth conclusion on the subject is still yet unobtained.

Trench, WHY are you posting BS ..

The virus' transmission methodology  is well known, now ..

It's not so much about droplets in the atmosphere .. it's what you touch and pass to your mucus glands ... on the face... Eyes, nose, mouth ..

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 22, 2020, 01:19:33 PM
^Yes.


What isn't known (just theory at this point) is whether COVID-19 can be aerosolized or spread through fecal matter.  Those are debated theories, currently.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 22, 2020, 01:22:36 PM
MY anger is directed at those who don't listen to good advice ..


Trump is one of the first leaders in the World to ignore the advice of WHO and enact bans on foreign nationals that came from China. He got criticized by the experts and political opposition. Trump's actions made no sense to many experts so they say it must be racism that led Trump to do what he did. America's problems would be less if we didn't have to deal with Western Europe's lack of action to the virus. NY will pay the heaviest price in America.

I'm not fond of the so called experts who failed to warn their leaders back in January that China lost control of a virus so dangerous, it can begin the decline of civilization.

It's not so much about droplets in the atmosphere .. it's what you touch and pass to your mucus glands ... on the face... Eyes, nose, mouth ..


In America we are practicing self isolation and social distancing of a minimum 6 feet so droplets in the air carring viruses have less chance of being breathe by another human being. We are washing hands more too.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 22, 2020, 01:35:27 PM
Billy,

Let us hope you are not underestimating the most important factor in all this - time.

We'll see how things really are in a week or two.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on March 22, 2020, 01:36:01 PM
Mid morning today, wife went on first grocery shopping expedition since this began.
She really likes Aldi's so went there first, and then finished up at Giant Eagle for things Aldi's didn't have.
She would have gone to WalMart rather than Giant Eagle, but had to stop at GE anyway to pick up a Rx for me.  Amazingly GE has lowest prices for my Prescription Drug plan beating WalMart, CVS and others.

Anyway she reported there were few shoppers at Aldi's and not too many at GE.
I had advised her that Sunday morning might be best time to go to beat the crowds.

She was able to stock up on a lot of items including to make bread, casseroles, etc.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 22, 2020, 02:05:23 PM
Does Trump not own the response?

So you think it appropriate to assail the leader of our nation as he direct's the nation's response to  two grave crises - our immediate health and tomorrow's economy. 

As Gov. Cuomo said, "Now is not a time for politics.  Not a time for venting personal feelings."

We will judge Trump after this.    Meanwhile, what are Trump's options?   What would you do?    If you can believe their data, the nation that seems closest to beating this is China.    Our military and law enforcement are too small to enforce what China did, given our cultural differences.   Surely you are not the panicked de Blasio and calling for the military? 


Quote
   I guess like most relationships it boils down to a trust issue.  With as much erroneous information I have heard from Trump, I don't get any warm and fuzzies as far as trust is concerned.

You rejected Trump from Day One.  I don't expect people like you to ever become warm and fuzzy about him.

But what about Trump's team? 

Quote
At least Pence is coherent and seems to have a better grasp on the subject despite giving a great Trimjob.


I understand your point, yet are you missing a more important point:  namely, all those professionals standing behind Trump during his press conferences.  They are the ones executing the team effort, with Trump resolving conflicts.     IMO the team seems especially solid.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 22, 2020, 02:15:30 PM
Doesn't the political aspect of this virus belong in the 'Trampu' thread ?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 22, 2020, 02:28:52 PM
Billy,

Let us hope you are not underestimating the most important factor in all this - time.

We'll see how things really are in a week or two.

I've been paying attention to time since January. America has taken actions early to flatten the curb. It's the anti Trump America that didn't take it seriously and will be hit the hardest. Rest of America will be fine. NY for example is one of those areas that will be hit hard. Last month Trump told States they can take whatever action they need. It wasn't until last week NY closed schools. The NY governor, NY city Mayor and their health department was against closing schools. They failed to understand the seriousness of the virus. But the threat of the teachers walking off the job forced their hands to close schools. Christ! Even the public understood the danger more than the experts and the leaders! America's Democratic cities are ran by those with similar political beliefs as those in Europe and will pay the biggest price for not shutting down earlier. For the most part, America will be fine and strong enough for round two with the virus. When Italy had their lockdown, some people estimated America is one to two weeks behind for a nationwide lockdown. We are past that time and we only have a few states with a handful of deaths ordering self isolation. America is nowhere near total lockdown. Don't need test kits to tell us what is happening. Just look at the activity in hospitals. When it's discovered America did a better job than Europe in preventing the virus from coming to our shores, I'm sure people will continue to blame Trump for not doing enough.

http://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/opinion/coronavirus-nyc-schools.html

Here's Trump's Euro travel ban weeks ago with European leaders angry saying this is a global crisis and needs global cooperation. Trump was accused of creating confusion and chaos and his leadership abilities were questioned. Well,....at least he's leading instead of following.

http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/12/814876173/coronavirus-trump-speech-creates-chaos-eu-says-it-wasnt-warned-of-travel-ban
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 22, 2020, 02:52:12 PM
Trench, WHY are you posting BS ..

The virus' transmission methodology  is well known, now ..

It's not so much about droplets in the atmosphere .. it's what you touch and pass to your mucus glands ... on the face... Eyes, nose, mouth ..

Mobe, haven't you got a bedpan that needs emptying ;)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 22, 2020, 02:53:05 PM
If your comment refers to dealing with coronavirus, I guess that is yet to be seen. 

I posted two articles about people over the age of 60 years old
getting denied treatment or getting denied the use of a respirator.
The reason for getting denied? They were old.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 22, 2020, 03:03:06 PM
Iran seems to be topping out in daily number of deaths.

Reduction in deaths from yesterday in Italy( UK too although we are behind Italy so have yet to hit our peak )

Upward trend of daily deaths in France seems to have levelled out.

Not quite the Armageddon forecast of Krimster...no surprise there...he'll be so disappointed.

Trench will be able to come out of hiding at his parents soon.

I reckon a lot of people/panic merchants are going to look stupid in a couple of months.

With a total of 14,000 Corona virus deaths worldwide so far ..it's looking like my forecast that we'd finish well short of the 280,000 worldwide Flu deaths of last year will be spot-on.

Next time bed-wetters start panicking just call for me..i'll put you right : )

Wonder if you'll all be panicking,bed-wetting and screaming for lock-downs at the next Flu season.?

The annoying thing is economies/mental health have been put hugely at risk because of over-reaction from social media and mainstream media with an anti-Trump and anti- Johnson agenda...and sucked up by gullible people.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 22, 2020, 03:18:31 PM
not surprised to see the people who put humpty trumpty where he is on the wall
are now so very unhappy to see him falling...
it can’t be true...
why think such “nasty” thoughts
that Trump of all people would be responsible for closing the office of Pandemic Preparedness setup 6 years ago by “slow, stuttering, crooked Joe Biden”
that Trump’s travel ban did exactly nothing, because infected Chinese instead flew to a non-embargoed country so were never checked on their arrival in the USA....

Trump has made no effort to do anything else about the pandemic other than publicly pat himself on the back for going from less than 20 covid cases 8 weeks ago to about 1/3 of China’s,  as of today

in 2014 when the USA had a total of 3 ebola cases the office of Pandemic Preparedness spent 14 billion and put 10,000 people on the ground in Africa to learn about and fight the disease, Trump put NOTHING on Covid when it was China... and his first funding request was for only a billion... for the USA

Until the stock market crashed, Trump called the disease a hoax and nothing to worry about...
Trump and Pence lied on national TV about the availability of testing
every message from them is this new miracle cure this, and that new miracle cure that, the disease is not serious...etc... millions and millions of testing kits, the kits are all great, etc.

media, please don’t spread negativity that will make the markets go down...
because market performance is tied to Trump’s election and he sure DOES NOT want “his" numbers to look bad, he even told ya so himself....

I expect millions of the very people who will die
made the choice for Trump, the very thing that will kill them...

or as I used to call it...
“drinking the kool-aid”

so ya’ll enjoy Jonestown and most of ya won’t have to worry for much longer about the bad things being said about the Reverend Jones
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 22, 2020, 04:15:10 PM
With a total of 14,000 Corona virus deaths worldwide so far ..it's looking like my forecast that we'd finish well short of the 280,000 worldwide Flu deaths of last year will be spot-on.


I just watch Trump and VP Pence on tv. They were not breaking out the champagne claiming victory. I doubt you'll find a single leader in this world celebrating with you. If COVID-19 infects as many people as the flu each year, you will see tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions dead. Add the fact there may never be a cure found and this is the first round of many we will have to deal with. COVID-19 just showed up a few months ago and is still a baby.  We don't want to wait to see what it'll do if left unchecked. We need to stop it now even if it costs us a good portion of our economies.

in 2014 when the USA had a total of 3 ebola cases the office of Pandemic Preparedness spent 14 billion and put 10,000 people on the ground in Africa to learn about and fight the disease, Trump put NOTHING on Covid when it was China...



Trump's and WHO's help to China was refused form the beginning. If you were president, how much money would you give and how many men would you put on the ground in China after they refuse your help? China is more at fault than Trump. Everybody will look smarter appointing blame where it's deserved. If China doesn't get punished, we can expect a repeat of what just happened next time they have a virus show up in their country.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 22, 2020, 04:45:25 PM
Iran seems to be topping out in daily number of deaths.

Reduction in deaths from yesterday in Italy( UK too although we are behind Italy so have yet to hit our peak )

Upward trend of daily deaths in France seems to have levelled out.

Not quite the Armageddon forecast of Krimster...no surprise there...he'll be so disappointed.

Trench will be able to come out of hiding at his parents soon.

I reckon a lot of people/panic merchants are going to look stupid in a couple of months.

With a total of 14,000 Corona virus deaths worldwide so far ..it's looking like my forecast that we'd finish well short of the 280,000 worldwide Flu deaths of last year will be spot-on.

Next time bed-wetters start panicking just call for me..i'll put you right : )

Wonder if you'll all be panicking,bed-wetting and screaming for lock-downs at the next Flu season.?

The annoying thing is economies/mental health have been put hugely at risk because of over-reaction from social media and mainstream media with an anti-Trump and anti- Johnson agenda...and sucked up by gullible people.


Sure.  The Chinese government put hundreds of millions of people into lockdown, and suffered a projected first quarter 9% decline in GDP all for the sole purpose of possibly making Trump and Johnson look bad.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 22, 2020, 05:28:01 PM
Former Warren, Clinton aides leading 'coronavirus war room'
targeting Trump's response to pandemic

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/warren-clinton-aides-coronavirus-war-room


Politicizing the Pandemic: Will Dems' Dark-Money Ads Work?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/03/20/politicizing_the_pandemic_will_dems_dark-money_ads_work_142723.html


Majority of Americans now say they approve of Trump's handling
of coronavirus: poll

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/488597-majority-of-americans-approve-of-trumps-handling-of-coronavirus-poll
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 22, 2020, 05:32:21 PM
Until the stock market crashed, Trump called the disease a hoax and nothing to worry about...


Trump never called the disease a hoax, he accused the Democrats of politicizing the virus and that it was their latest hoax after the previous ones failed. Trump is one of the first leaders in the world to take major action against a threat he thought was real.

Only a few hundred thousand cases of coronavirus in Europe and they face a shortage of hospital beds, supplies and personnel. Anybody still think this is not anymore dangerous than the flu and shouldn't be impacting our economies?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/as-coronavirus-surges-a-frantic-europe-scrambles-for-hospital-beds-ventilators-supplies/ar-BB11xWLG?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 22, 2020, 05:33:30 PM
I, for one, am thankful that our governmental leaders saw fit to limit social and work interaction.   

I would like to address something else:  People are mentioning cures.  The number of viruses, since the advent of virology, that have been cured is exactly and precisely ZERO.   We have never cured a virus.   

It seems those treatments that are most effective limit the virus' ability to reproduce, thereby making it less effective a killer and allowing the inflicted to live. 

The other misnomer on here seems to address the virus as a living thing.   Most virologists believe that a virus is not a living thing.

Which, then, obviously means that you cannot kill a virus.   Instead, a virus is a small particle that invades a living cell, thereby altering it and, in that form, reproduces itself.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 22, 2020, 05:48:34 PM
dewds....

check this out...

I have my own simple model of the progression rate of the virus without a full quarantine like China’s, during the next week, if we more or less just do whatever it is we did today
that's the only assumption my model makes

so here are my model’s prediction for yesterday’s and today's actual total infected and my model's total infection counts

total number of covid infections in USA

Predicted
3-21-20            24,000
3-22-20            31,000

Actual
3-21-20            26,111      
3-22-20            32,783       

this model says that if we just do the same thing for just the next 5 days, we will have more total cases of infection than China....

I told ya’ll WE WERE gonna win the Covid pennant this year!!!!!
I swear in a week at most we will freakin BEAT China’s Ass!!!!

wait...?
what...?

you mean, the one with the most loses?
does Trump know this?
ARE YOU FREAKING CERTAIN THAT HE DOES?
no I am serious!!!!!
are you 100% sure?

oh crap, someone get Putin on the phone....
we can't let this go on anymore
we never meant for it to get THIS far...

what do you mean, no one is picking up the phone in his office?


 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 22, 2020, 06:00:06 PM
I would like to address something else:  People are mentioning cures.  The number of viruses, since the advent of virology, that have been cured is exactly and precisely ZERO.   We have never cured a virus.   


Experts and politicians like to keep it simple for people so cure is thrown out a lot for simplicity and to provide hope.

Most virologists believe that a virus is not a living thing.


There is a debate on whether a virus is a living thing but it's certainly not a dead thing. I found the below site useful on the debate.

http://www.khanacademy.org/test-prep/mcat/cells/viruses/a/are-viruses-dead-or-alive

we will have more total cases of infection than China....


That is very possible but we don't know the truth on how many Chinese were infected. By the time Italy reaches the same amount of total infections as reported by China, Italy's death toll would be much higher than China's. I don't believe Asians have super immunity to this virus compared to Europeans.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on March 22, 2020, 06:11:01 PM
 I have patients in their early 40s and, yeah, I was kind of shocked. I’m seeing people who look relatively healthy with a minimal health history, and they are completely wiped out, like they’ve been hit by a truck. This is knocking out what should be perfectly fit, healthy people. Patients will be on minimal support, on a little bit of oxygen, and then all of a sudden, they go into complete respiratory arrest, shut down and can’t breathe at all…  what happens to a lot of these patients [is, t]hey suddenly become unresponsive or go into respiratory failure… the lungs are filled with fluid… With our coronavirus patients, once they’re on ventilators, most need about the highest settings that we can do… [It] is nearly as high as I’ve ever seen. The level we’re at means we are running out of options. I’ve never seen a microorganism or an infectious process cause such acute damage to the lungs so rapidly.”


    “It first struck me how different it was when I saw my first coronavirus patient go bad. I was like, Holy shit, this is not the flu. Watching this relatively young guy, gasping for air, pink frothy secretions coming out of his tube and out of his mouth. The ventilator should have been doing the work of breathing but he was still gasping for air, moving his mouth, moving his body, struggling. We had to restrain him. With all the coronavirus patients, we’ve had to restrain them. They really hyperventilate, really struggle to breathe. When you’re in that mindstate of struggling to breathe and delirious with fever, you don’t know when someone is trying to help you, so you’ll try to rip the breathing tube out because you feel it is choking you, but you are drowning… They are essentially drowning in their own blood and fluids because their lungs are so full…

http://www.propublica.org/article/a-medical-worker-describes--terrifying-lung-failure-from-covid19-even-in-his-young-patients
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 22, 2020, 06:36:20 PM
It seems there is another connection and reason as to why Italy and Iran have been hit especially hard.

"In addition to the Chinese financial exploitation of both Italy and Iran, because they chose to align themselves with China, both have been hit hard by the Wuhan Virus. And their citizens are now paying the price."

http://www.redstate.com/elizabeth-vaughn/2020/03/19/its-no-coincidence-that-italy-and-iran-have-been-so-hard-hit-by-the-wuhan-virus/?fbclid=IwAR2roFKgetROUTVYVUB_yb6SpcwMctN7mp7wg-1-UKhpJaFkokx_pjqYexs (http://www.redstate.com/elizabeth-vaughn/2020/03/19/its-no-coincidence-that-italy-and-iran-have-been-so-hard-hit-by-the-wuhan-virus/?fbclid=IwAR2roFKgetROUTVYVUB_yb6SpcwMctN7mp7wg-1-UKhpJaFkokx_pjqYexs)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on March 22, 2020, 06:52:34 PM
US Senator Rand Paul tests positive for covid19. Five senators are now self quarantining.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/22/coronavirus-rand-paul-senator-tests-positive-covid-19
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 22, 2020, 06:52:57 PM
It seems there is another connection and reason as to why Italy and Iran have been hit especially hard.

"In addition to the Chinese financial exploitation of both Italy and Iran, because they chose to align themselves with China, both have been hit hard by the Wuhan Virus. And their citizens are now paying the price."

I read an article yesterday about generally the same thing. Italy was so concerned about guarding its newly established economic partnership with China, that even after they knew something was going on with increasing cases of strange pneumonia at home, and the developing news in China, they actually decided to host some Chinese delegates to a specially held concert. Shortly after, when news came out about China's problem finally, Italy got a lot of Italians, including children of Chinese immigrants, who had been studying in China back to Italy and apparently none were screened.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/italy-pandemics-new-epicenter-has-lessons-for-the-world/ar-BB11wh8V

I hope their losses today will pay itself back for their belt and road dreamline. Everyone, not only Italy, is paying a very steep price for this.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 22, 2020, 06:54:56 PM
US Senator Rand Paul tests positive for covid19. Five senators are now self quarantining.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/22/coronavirus-rand-paul-senator-tests-positive-covid-19

I love it during the presser today when a reported told Trump that Mitt Romney tested positive, Trump asked again, "Mitt?" He was immediately asked if he was being sarcastic. Thank goodness he said no.

LOL.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 22, 2020, 07:00:16 PM
double
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on March 22, 2020, 07:00:52 PM
I love it during the presser today when a reported told Trump that Mitt Romney tested positive, Trump asked again, "Mitt?" He was immediately asked if he was being sarcastic. Thank goodness he said no.

LOL.

I think the wording was that Mitt was self quarantining.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 22, 2020, 07:02:32 PM
Such a beautiful spring morning in LA today. The rain forecasted for the weekend never came. Some spotty clouds but mostly sunny and 67F. Wifey and I decided to take advantage of it and went bike riding.
 
Riding through our downtown and along PCH/Ocean Avenue was an eye opener. This part of Santa Monica, on a weekend like this, would always be a hotspot. But we’re both glad to see gathering was not visible. This are usually would be teeming with people. People walking, running, biking, etc..every restaurant would be full for brunches, coffee, etc…the beaches would literally be full of people. Yes, even if the temp is at 67F. Farmer’s market on Main was in business although only a 3rd of the usual crowd is there and seemed mindful of the spacing. Venice Beach, the normally clusterf#4ck spot is literally dead. I would estimate that if these areas, from Brentwood to the Marina, during a typical day in SoCal, boast 100,000 people, there’s probably not even 2,000, or 2%, of people outside. So fathertime is mistaken. At least in my neighborhood. Maybe he’s on China’s payroll to help spread their propaganda.

We are generally asked to stay home, but as Gov. Newsom said if we need to be outside, to observe the 6’ social distance and avoid crowd gathering of 10 or more.

I see the US had tested 300,000+ people so far if what Pence said in the presser that the average infection rate, based on the tests to date, being 10% or 1 in 10 people tested. This easily explains the 32K count so far. By next week’s end, especially at the rollout of the 45-min test kits by CELPHEID, these numbers would definitely rise. Death count so far is extremely low thankfully, 414. Serious critical is however creeping up at almost 800. According to Trump, NY’s Gov. Cuomo will begin treatment of the therapy drug. Hopefully by this time next weekend, they’ll get the same result as cited here (http://techcrunch.com/2020/03/19/french-study-finds-anti-malarial-and-antibiotic-combo-could-reduce-covid-19-duration/). We’ll see…

I don’t think I agree with the program that ONLY people who are showing symptoms can be tested. I mean, I understand the reason behind it, I just don’t agree with it. This is exactly the system Italy adopted (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-italy-the-factors-behind-a-coronavirus-disaster/ar-BB11vu3h). Look where they are today.

Wifey tells me a situation in Siberia. Apparently many Russians were returning from somewhere, Thailand, S/E Asia, etc…and like what happened in the US airports, their airports started getting jammed up, too..She was careful to give me details like..the line in the US were so much longer and they were standing there for 4-5 hours. Probably coming from places like Europe where it’s a longer flight. People were angry but you never saw pushing, fighting, etc..In Siberia, they were only there for no more than an hour, flights were probably shorter, so the crowd just bull rushed the line and everyone just left..I don’t know where she got this news.

Sad to see Italy is still spiking upwards. High daily death count, and still generating high rate on new infection. BTW, while Italy have a high population of the elderly, both Japan and Germany are higher (older). So the idea Italy’s death rate are as bad as it is as being age-related is a bad excuse if you look at the death rate in Japan and Germany.

Anyway, I hope this changes for Italy soon. I heard in the news last night that Cuba is sending some nurses to Italy to help out.

Good for them.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on March 22, 2020, 07:03:38 PM
It will be highly idiotic if 435 reps get together to vote and then 100 senators get together to vote, plus dozens of staffers, etc.

Unless it would serve a purpose to weed out dozens of them.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 22, 2020, 07:09:52 PM

In America we are practicing self isolation and social distancing of a minimum 6 feet
so droplets in the air carring viruses have less chance of being breathe by another human being. We are washing hands more too.
Oh no we are not.   I've never had a busier day than today.  Had to shut down early because people were bumping into each other...practically on top of each other.  I wore a mask today for the first time, and got teased.  People thought I was ridiculous.  I'm not making this up.  I'd say 1 in 15 people came in with a mask on,  a couple people had gloves.  I was attempting to practice social isolation but it was very difficult.  I watched people shaking hands several times. 

I went to the supermarket after work, none of the cashiers were wearing masks, everybody is touching everything in the supermarket. They were out of the wipes for the shopping carts so nobody was washing hands or cleaning shopping cart handles.    We in the states are NOT even close to following the guidelines as a whole. 

If indeed this virus is as serious as some make it out to be, the nation needs martial law imposed asap.   I mean real isolation, not what this pretend we are isolating silliness.   

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 22, 2020, 07:11:35 PM
Such a beautiful spring morning in LA today. The rain forecasted for the weekend never came.
It was a bright morning, but has been raining here for hours. Not a heavy rain, but fairly significant. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 22, 2020, 07:16:37 PM
. It's the anti Trump America that didn't take it seriously and will be hit the hardest. Rest of America will be fine. 
People living in closer proximately to each other are at the greatest risk, those people are in cities.  Often it is cities where a greater percentage of non trump voters live.   Out in rural america people won't have as much contact with others, and that is where much of trump's support is. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 22, 2020, 07:20:48 PM


We will judge Trump after this.    Meanwhile, what are Trump's options?   What would you do?    If you can believe their data, the nation that seems closest to beating this is China.    Our military and law enforcement are too small to enforce what China did, given our cultural differences.   Surely you are not the panicked de Blasio and calling for the military? 
So now suddenly China did handle it right, yet still a lot of self righteous criticism of china from you

Assuming the virus is as dangerous as it appears to be, De Blasio is ahead of the curve by calling for the military.  Trump, like other presidents would rather use the military to bomb and occupy other nations, than do a most basic duty of helping american's in america. 

Fathertime! 


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 22, 2020, 07:26:30 PM
Oh no we are not.   I've never had a busier day than today.  Had to shut down early because people were bumping into each other...practically on top of each other.  I wore a mask today for the first time, and got teased.  People thought I was ridiculous.  I'm not making this up.  I'd say 1 in 15 people came in with a mask on,  a couple people had gloves.  I was attempting to practice social isolation but it was very difficult.  I watched people shaking hands several times.... 

I went to the supermarket after work, none of the cashiers were wearing masks, everybody is touching everything in the supermarket. They were out of the wipes for the shopping carts so nobody was washing hands or cleaning shopping cart handles.    We in the states are NOT even close to following the guidelines as a whole. 

If indeed this virus is as serious as some make it out to be, the nation needs martial law imposed asap.   I mean real isolation, not what this pretend we are isolating silliness.   

Fathertime!

I'm telling you guys....

fathertime is on China's payroll to spread their propaganda. At least, I posted pictures to prove there was hardly anyone out today.

Matter of fact, I ran an errand this afternoon in southbay and got this pic from my dashcam driving down on southbound 405. This freeway, even on Sundays, is usually jammed.

I just received an email this evening that our course, under the direction of the Ventura County, will be closed starting March 23rd to April 20th. Sad news...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 22, 2020, 07:27:19 PM
The Eyes of Darkness was written in 1981 by Dean Koontz. Glimpse a page from it-----------

(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQ3qbCyUYAAjgNo?format=jpg&name=small)(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQ3qbCfW4AAm3J6?format=jpg&name=small)

It's worth pointing out that in the original 1981 edition of "The Eyes of Darkness," this biological weapon was called "Gorki-400 (http://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Eyes_of_Darkness/U270yU756JoC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=gorki-400)," in reference to a Russian locality. The name of the weapon was changed to "Wuhan-400" when the book was released again in 1989, according to the South China Morning Post (http://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/arts-culture/article/3051619/china-wasnt-original-villain-book-predicting-coronavirus).
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 22, 2020, 07:29:18 PM

so here are my model’s prediction for yesterday’s and today's actual total infected and my model's total infection counts

total number of covid infections in USA

Predicted
3-21-20            24,000
3-22-20            31,000

Actual
3-21-20            26,111      
3-22-20            32,783       

this model says that if we just do the same thing for just the next 5 days, we will have more total cases of infection than China....

I told ya’ll WE WERE gonna win the Covid pennant this year!!!!!

I think your prediction was way off.  He probably have way more infected than your projections.  Most people are probably not being tested.   Since there is limited testing supplies, the philosophy seems to be if it isn't going to change the treatment rendered then don't bother to test.  I can't say I disagree with doing it that way since we don't have the supplies to spare. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 22, 2020, 07:33:05 PM
I'm telling you guys....

fathertime is on China's payroll to spread their propaganda. At least, I posted pictures to prove there was hardly anyone out today.
 

I could snap a picture of desolate places too, but since I was mired in reality that isn't what I witnessed.  In addition it is still raining where I am in LA and has been for several hours now.  Much of America is not self isolating. 



Fathertime!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 22, 2020, 07:35:05 PM
Wifey and I decided to take advantage of it and went bike riding.
 

Everything you say can be used against you in a court of law. I've also identified all the people in your photos and I will be making a citizens arrest on all who violate California's Shelter in Place Executive Order N 33-20

I watched people shaking hands several times. 


It's okay FT. We are all on the same team and we will have to deal with this virus over and over and over again until we get it right. Reality is the government's efforts isn't to eliminate the virus but to flatten the curve. After this outbreak, we will have reduced the number of infected in our population. It will take a month or so for virus will spread again to the levels we see today. So we'll have a month break before the next lock down. Unless we have a real plan to eliminate this virus from every single human it'll be deja vu all over again.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 22, 2020, 07:36:17 PM
I could snap a picture of desolate places too, but since I was mired in reality that isn't what I witnessed.  In addition it is still raining where I am in LA and has been for several hours now.  Much of America is not self isolating. 

Fathertime!

I disagree. Santa Monica is hardly a 'desolate' place, LMAO! It started raining here at 4:40-5:00. The freeway shot was taken around 2:30 PM. FWIW.

*Much of America*, I can't honestly even begin to pretend I would know as I'm not either a European or Canadian with an axe to grind. But if propaganda is all that's required, then maybe I might've taken the same assumption as you.

The only question now is, how much are the Chinese paying you? :devil:

Americans Flattening the curve one day at a time!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 22, 2020, 07:44:03 PM


It's okay FT. We are all on the same team and we will have to deal with this virus over and over and over again until we get it right. Reality is the government's efforts isn't to eliminate the virus but to flatten the curve. After this outbreak, we will have reduced the number of infected in our population. It will take a month or so for virus will spread again to the levels we see today. So we'll have a month break before the next lock down. Unless we have a real plan to eliminate this virus from every single human it'll be deja vu all over again.
We may indeed have to deal with the virus indefinably and that is going to be a damn shame.   We will soon find out if the 'social contract' here in California was enough....based on what I've seen I don't think so. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 22, 2020, 07:54:49 PM
I disagree. Santa Monica is hardly a 'desolate' place, LMAO! It started raining here at 4:40-5:00. The freeway shot was taken around 2:30 PM. FWIW.
Rain started earlier up near the mountains of LA where I'm at. 

The only question now is, how much are the Chinese paying you? :devil:

Americans Flattening the curve one day at a time!
So far I don't think we are flattening the curve to the extent we should be.  We shall see if the hospitals added capacity is enough.  It shouldn't be long before we find out if this virus is a bunch of hype or the real killer it has been in nations other than China. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 22, 2020, 08:17:32 PM
It seems there is another connection and reason as to why Italy and Iran have been hit especially hard.

"In addition to the Chinese financial exploitation of both Italy and Iran, because they chose to align themselves with China, both have been hit hard by the Wuhan Virus. And their citizens are now paying the price."

What RIDICULOUS t'heory'... There are plenty of other  countries more tied to Chinese infrastructure projects with less problems with this outbreak.

China was WAY ahead to the other EU nations in nanking China flights.

Of course, it looks like this virus jumped into humans in China....but believing it was a deliberate act?....



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 22, 2020, 08:26:17 PM
Oh no we are not.   I've never had a busier day than today.  Had to shut down early because people were bumping into each other...practically on top of each other.  I wore a mask today for the first time, and got teased.  People thought I was ridiculous.  I'm not making this up.  I'd say 1 in 15 people came in with a mask on,  a couple people had gloves.  I was attempting to practice social isolation but it was very difficult.  I watched people shaking hands several times. 

I went to the supermarket after work, none of the cashiers were wearing masks, everybody is touching everything in the supermarket. They were out of the wipes for the shopping carts so nobody was washing hands or cleaning shopping cart handles.    We in the states are NOT even close to following the guidelines as a whole. 

If indeed this virus is as serious as some make it out to be, the nation needs martial law imposed asap.   I mean real isolation, not what this pretend we are isolating silliness.   

Fathertime!

I was in a super market two days ago.  While I practiced the 6 feet, some of the people around me did not.   I told a lady that I was not comfortable with her standing so close to me and she went off on me.  Then she went off on the whole store.   I could see the look of concern with the people at the checkout register.  One lady who was working a register apologized.   But the lady who went off was unapologetic.   She screamed that no one had the right to tell her to stand away from other people.   

As were driving away, she was still castigating people for her infringement of rights.   As if something were being taken away from her.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 22, 2020, 08:47:31 PM
I think the wording was that Mitt was self quarantining.

I’m partly listening to the whole session but what was the part where they discussed about a woman who was tortured that prompted Trump to remarked, something to the effect, “she’s ok now, but they did everything to her without killing her!”

What was that about?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 22, 2020, 09:49:17 PM
   
Which, then, obviously means that you cannot kill a virus. 


Viruses are easily destroyed.  Soap breaks apart their lipid shell allowing dissolution of their "genetic" material.  Close enough to killing them.  Takes 20 seconds. 

Quote
Instead, a virus is a small particle that invades a living cell, thereby altering it and, in that form, reproduces itself.

Correct; a virus can not replicate unless inside a host cell.  I am not sure about the replication - it is not binary fission as with bacteria. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 22, 2020, 10:06:55 PM
What RIDICULOUS t'heory'... There are plenty of other  countries more tied to Chinese infrastructure projects with less problems with this outbreak.

Such as Iran?

There is so much misinformation being shuttled about.  Liberals have problems with Trump, yet I would prefer the information from the White House COVID-19 Task Force.

To be candid I focus on information from those with the letters "DR" in front of their names.  I tune out opinion analysts.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 22, 2020, 10:13:08 PM
As an example of misinformation and scare tactics, check this:

LA TImes, March 20:

 
Quote
Los Angeles County health officials advised doctors to give up on testing patients in the hope of containing the coronavirus outbreak, instructing them to test patients only if a positive result could change how they would be treated.

That story led to this headline from yesterday in some  internet news source, as sent to me by a concerned friend. 

THE BATTLE FOR LOS ANGELES IS LOST… NO MORE TESTING FOR CORONAVIRUS, CONTAINMENT IMPOSSIBLE, 100,000+ MAY DIE   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 23, 2020, 01:06:32 AM
Such as Iran?

I did not exclude Iran....I DID exclude Italy....

I do not have Dr in front of my name. Does 'Trampu'? ))
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 23, 2020, 02:46:46 AM
This comports with what I witnessed yesterday.  No face masks for supermarket employees.  As the article suggests, they are being ordered not to wear them at the supermarkets I've visited.  They can go home unpaid or get to work stripped of the masks many would like to wear.  I'm going to ask the cashier or the guy stacking shelves if they are being told to not wear masks, as the piece suggests. 

‘All they care about is making money.’ Can my supermarket manager force me to remove my face mask at work?

I am in my 60s and I work for a well-known supermarket chain in North Carolina. My job requires me to be in the aisles at all time, answering customers’ questions and stocking shelves.

I decided to wear a face mask because I am unable to remain six feet away from other customers, as per the guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. My manager told me to take it off. He said the company was following the CDC guidelines, which stated that masks do not have any affect in protecting us against the coronavirus. He will not allow me to wear it.....


 http://www.marketwatch.com/story/all-they-care-about-is-making-money-can-my-supermarket-manager-force-me-to-remove-my-face-mask-at-work-2020-03-23?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo   (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/all-they-care-about-is-making-money-can-my-supermarket-manager-force-me-to-remove-my-face-mask-at-work-2020-03-23?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo)
Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 23, 2020, 02:58:53 AM
I am.  I think Trench's need to "score" on the backs of moby's wife and Alzheimer's inflicted mother are reprehensible.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

Boe, Moobs mother can't recall any injustice on my part towards her so I don't know why you should ;D

Now I'm batting for SC here, our Moobs is acting anything less than a man and we're trying to make him shape up. The fact that apparently she did not want to live with Mobe & her MIL is not a good sign for him. We're trying to help save our Moobs relationship :)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 23, 2020, 03:00:21 AM
Marneuli, a city in Georgia is in lock down. A woman from there who may have had contact with about 80 people has the virus. A week and a half ago I traveled through that city on my way to Armenia to do a passport run to get another 360 days of residency. The borders were closed the next day. So far 54 people have contracted the virus but 8 have recovered. Not one death from it in the country. However 3 Georgians living in Spain have died.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 23, 2020, 03:02:02 AM
This article and the LA times are commenting on the large crowds in public places on Sunday.  Garcetti, Newsom, LA TIMES, CNN, all a bunch of 'liberals' making it up probably!   I saw similar in my own world, so I'm concluding they are generally accurate. 

Crowds packed California beaches despite shelter in place order

Crowds descended on California beaches, hiking trails and parks over the weekend in open defiance of a state order to shelter in place and avoid close contact with others.

California Gov. Gavin Newsom issued a shelter in place order directing the state's nearly 40 million residents to stay home beginning March 20 to help stop the spread of coronavirus.....

.....In response to the crowds, Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti announced on Twitter late Sunday that he was closing sports and recreation at all LA City Parks. He also tweeted that parking at city beaches was closed.
"This weekend we saw too many people packing beaches, trails and parks," the Mayor tweeted. He said people should heed the closures and stay home. "That doesn't mean gather elsewhere. This is serious. Stay home and save lives."...


 http://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/us/california-stay-at-home-beach-goers/index.html   (http://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/us/california-stay-at-home-beach-goers/index.html)

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 23, 2020, 03:03:23 AM
Boe, Moobs mother can't recall any injustice on my part towards her so I don't know why you should ;D

Now I'm batting for SC here, our Moobs is acting anything less than a man and we're trying to make him shape up. The fact that apparently she did not want to live with Mobe & her MIL is not a good sign for him. We're trying to help save our Moobs relationship :)


This is not the time to get back at anybody, deserved or undeserved.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 23, 2020, 03:10:52 AM
I found an interesting chart on Reuters.  Lots of numbers. 

In the US

178 Recovered
421 Dead
33,623 Pending.   

There are a lot interesting stats in the article.   Even Trump's sought after Greenland has 4 cases of the virus. 

 http://graphics.reuters.com/CHINA-HEALTH-MAP/0100B59S39E/index.html   (http://graphics.reuters.com/CHINA-HEALTH-MAP/0100B59S39E/index.html)

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 23, 2020, 03:12:59 AM

I do not have Dr in front of my name. Does 'Trampu'? ))
Nailed him! 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 23, 2020, 03:44:24 AM
I found an interesting chart on Reuters.  Lots of numbers. 

In the US

178 Recovered
421 Dead
33,623 Pending.   

There are a lot interesting stats in the article.   Even Trump's sought after Greenland has 4 cases of the virus. 

 http://graphics.reuters.com/CHINA-HEALTH-MAP/0100B59S39E/index.html   (http://graphics.reuters.com/CHINA-HEALTH-MAP/0100B59S39E/index.html)

Fathertime!

Blimey, that's two thirds dead so far of the serious cases. Still galls me the idiots parroting around the bs numbers at the start of this including the cases before outcome was known, the sheer idiocy of it.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 23, 2020, 04:25:51 AM
Boe, Moobs mother can't recall any injustice on my part towards her so I don't know why you should ;D

It gets 'better' ..


Now I'm batting for SC here, our Moobs is acting anything less than a man and we're trying to make him shape up. The fact that apparently she did not want to live with Mobe & her MIL is not a good sign for him. We're trying to help save our Moobs relationship :)

 1/ I 'missed' asking for your 'advice'

2/ You are THE last person I'd ask 'advice' on relationships from, anyway..

3/  I wasn't aware our relationship was in crisis ...  :popcorn:


Anyway, a major investment opportunity came our way, this am

Invest in a Russian Airline UTAIR and getup to 10 percent return and lots of free air miles

"Utair and BCS offer to use an investment product with a cute cashback.

Invest from 10 to 500 thousand rubles with a guaranteed yield of 10% and get up to 15 thousand bonus miles to your Utair Status account.

BCS will not only help to save funds and earn money on them, but also teach investing. At your service:

free courses and tests;
trading simulator for practice.
Start investing and learn right now!"

We can own a RU airline !


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 23, 2020, 04:53:36 AM
It gets 'better' ..


 1/ I 'missed' asking for your 'advice'

2/ You are THE last person I'd ask 'advice' on relationships from, anyway..

3/  I wasn't aware our relationship was in crisis ...  :popcorn:


Anyway, a major investment opportunity came our way, this am

Invest in a Russian Airline UTAIR and getup to 10 percent return and lots of free air miles

"Utair and BCS offer to use an investment product with a cute cashback.

Invest from 10 to 500 thousand rubles with a guaranteed yield of 10% and get up to 15 thousand bonus miles to your Utair Status account.

BCS will not only help to save funds and earn money on them, but also teach investing. At your service:

free courses and tests;
trading simulator for practice.
Start investing and learn right now!"

We can own a RU airline !

Mobe, I do hope you are joking about the investment 'opportunity'. Most airlines could go bust in all of this and even if it survives being Russian you could be done out of your investment at any time.

Anyway, I'm glad you appreciate the time I spend trying to help you out in your relationship :D
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 23, 2020, 05:27:49 AM


Thank you, (to both of you ) for applying, but on this occasion you have been unsuccessful..

Trench, I'm as likely to invest in UTAir as take your 'relationship advice'... :popcorn:

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 23, 2020, 05:51:41 AM
What RIDICULOUS t'heory'... There are plenty of other  countries more tied to Chinese infrastructure projects with less problems with this outbreak.

China was WAY ahead to the other EU nations in nanking China flights.

Of course, it looks like this virus jumped into humans in China....but believing it was a deliberate act?....

Quit being such a moron. I know how hard that is for you but at least try to comprehend what you read. There was no mention of deliberate act or "nanking" flights. Iran and Italy have been hit exceptionally hard and this arrangement with China and interaction with China is very likely the reason. It is a theory. Douche
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 23, 2020, 06:06:08 AM
Quit being such a moron. I know how hard that is for you but at least try to comprehend what you read. There was no mention of deliberate act or "nanking" flights. Iran and Italy have been hit exceptionally hard and this arrangement with China and interaction with China is very likely the reason. It is a theory. Douche

Repeating daft, doesn't make your original statement any less 'intelligent'

1/ Italy is not 'tied' to or reliant on China, like possibly Iran  ...

2/ Italy has it bad - despite being the first nation to stop China flights amongst any EU nation

A 'moron', to most people, is someone who resorts to call name-calling when called out ... 


Your 'theory' (and source to 'support it ) fell at the first test ..


I'd be ensuring your govt wakes up to it's obligations - rather than 'blame games' ..


 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 23, 2020, 06:26:08 AM
Holy Cracker Jack! Batman!

~ Israeli medical doctor Gai Peleg told Israeli television that in northern Italy the orders are not to allow those over 60 access to respiratory machines. ~

http://m.jpost.com/International/Israeli-doctor-in-Italy-We-no-longer-help-those-over-60-621856/amp

...and yet-

“..
Roma Today reported on Saturday that two men went out to sell drugs. Others have written they went out for “love” so that they could meet their partners, and two women wrote they were visiting their elderly and sick aunt, who turned out to be a healthy woman in her 40s. Others said they were going to work, when in fact they were meeting friends for a game of cards...”

Caution: Leftish media - Guardian

http://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/23/this-is-not-a-film-italian-mayors-rage-coronavirus-lockdown-dodgers
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 23, 2020, 06:39:52 AM
The news about the triage process in crisis situations in Lombardy is 'old' ... Your source just picked up on it ...   There'll be the same choices in the UK / US, soon - unless enough trained staff and ventilators are available


There are 'dodgers' who think themselves immune in Italy, France, Spain ... haven't you read of the large numbers of people already cited ?


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 23, 2020, 07:26:29 AM

I do not have Dr in front of my name. Does 'Trampu'? ))

Nothing inconsistent on my part.   

As I said,

Quote
To be candid I focus on information from those with the letters "DR" in front of their names.  I tune out paid opinion analysts (ed. on both CNN and Fox).
 

When BC criticized Trump's communication skills, I wrote:

Quote
I understand your point, yet are you missing a more important point:  namely, all those professionals standing behind Trump during his press conferences. They are the ones executing the team effort, with Trump resolving conflicts.     IMO the team seems especially solid.   

Trump gives us an overall perspective.  You and BC abhor the man, so you automatically reject what he says.  Meanwhile, you may be overlooking the many, enormous wheels of the Federal government now rolling in a super crisis mode:
 
     -  Health (FDA, CDC, NIH, USPHS and others), 
     -  logistics (FEMA),
     -  economic (Treasury, Fed),
     -  homeland security,
     -  legislative,
     -  blah blah. 

Its complicated, and I do not pretend to grasp all, or even most. 

Another point, Federalism.  Moby, you are not American and do not grasp electoral college, etc.     Under Federalism,  the actions on the frontlines of the health war battles are the responsibility of state and local government, not the Federal government.     

This reflects the fact that the actions needed in West Virginia differ from New York City.  Who better to decide than the states and local governments?  The state governors control and can call up the National Guard.  The Federal Government's historic response has been funding, regulatory (e. g., FDA) , and research.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 23, 2020, 07:53:38 AM
a year from now...

B.C. will mean “Before Carona”
but A.D. is still gonna mean “After Death”
ours...

our sweet Carona, is never gonna leave us folks....
us geezers are the ones who are gonna leave instead...
and pretty soon now...

Italy has already declared their hospitals don’t have the resources to treat those over age 60, so as of today they stopped...

understand...

in Italy, if you are over age 60, covid is a death sentence now...

we’ll be doing that in the USA at the end of next month...

and still....
this is only the beginning “of the first peak”
and we are still a long way, many months, from the top of this peak...

FT, my previous post regarding model predictions are based on predicted reported cases not total pool of infected, no one has any idea about that....
if we had enough test kits, we could test say 100,000 random people and see what the real infection level is, which I estimate to be be about 500,000 and doubling every 3 to 4 days

so geezers, it's gonna come down to this....
sometime by the end of next year, all geezers are gonna have had carona at LEAST once....
and the immunity you got from that year, if you were lucky enough to survive without medical care will be be mostly gone 3 years later
and you can catch the next one just as easily as anyone else

carona will be with us FOREVER

influenza infected 50 million in USA last year...
in a few years carona will rise to this level

so geezers...
how much time do you think the WORLD has left?
not just YOUR tiny little world, I mean THE WORLD?


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 23, 2020, 08:13:33 AM

so geezers...
how much time do you think the WORLD has left?
not just YOUR tiny little world, I mean THE WORLD?

The world will survive, with the top of the animal kingdom manned by cockroaches. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 23, 2020, 08:17:29 AM
Repeating daft, doesn't make your original statement any less 'intelligent'

1/ Italy is not 'tied' to or reliant on China, like possibly Iran  ...

2/ Italy has it bad - despite being the first nation to stop China flights amongst any EU nation

A 'moron', to most people, is someone who resorts to call name-calling when called out ... 


Your 'theory' (and source to 'support it ) fell at the first test ..


I'd be ensuring your govt wakes up to it's obligations - rather than 'blame games' ..

No, a moron is someone such as yourself who has zero comprehensive skills. You were given information as to a theory and a) failed to read it or b) read it and failed to comprehend what you read.

There were no blame games. You're making shit up again. Just a connection to China and the other two countries that are having the toughest battle presently against the virus.  Me, I just call them like I see them. You Moobs are a moron in the first order
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 23, 2020, 08:19:20 AM

This is not the time to get back at anybody, deserved or undeserved.

People who live in glass houses should cease throwing stones. Moby does not get a free pass to insult people with the belief we should shut our mouths and feel sorry for him since he screwed up getting his wife home. He claims to be an expert on everything because he talked to experts on everything yet he can't figure out to keep his family together. He needs to get his house in order before telling us how the world's problems should be solved.


This reflects the fact that the actions needed in West Virginia differ from New York City.  Who better to decide than the states and local governments?  The state governors control and can call up the National Guard.  The Federal Government's historic response has been funding, regulatory (e. g., FDA) , and research.   
 

Every leader, local, state, and at the federal level knew Trump banned travel from China in January. They knew about virus in China and it could spread. They knew some of the people in their cities and states came from China during the outbreak. Now some of those leaders complain their hospitals don't have supplies to fight the virus when they have their own health departments full of experts that should monitor the situation, could've warned them so that they could take early action. Maybe they were warned by their experts and they failed to act. They are supposed to be leaders yet they blame Trump for their failure to lead. My State was much better prepared than NY and my State and local government closing schools, buying hotels and supplies did not need Trump's permission to do so.

Although Italy is getting the lion's share of attention, there are nations that have a higher ratio of infections among their population Italy. They are Switzerland, Luxembourg, Iceland, Andorra, Faeroe Islands, Liechtenstein, Vatican City, and San Marino tops everybody with one out of 181 of their citizens being infected.

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Harvey Weinstein must've been kissing on some prisoners and now is infected with the virus. He was in the hellhole called Rikers in NY and 40 inmates there are infected. I wonder if a prisoner showed him how a prison mob handle feels?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/celebrity/harvey-weinstein-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-in-ny-state-prison-convicted-producer-in-isolation/ar-BB11xZf5?ocid=spartanntp

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 23, 2020, 08:22:41 AM
Nothing inconsistent on my part.   

As I said,
 

When BC criticized Trump's communication skills, I wrote:

Trump gives us an overall perspective.  You and BC abhor the man, so you automatically reject what he says.  Meanwhile, you may be overlooking the many, enormous wheels of the Federal government now rolling in a super crisis mode:
 
     -  Health (FDA, CDC, NIH, USPHS and others), 
     -  logistics (FEMA),
     -  economic (Treasury, Fed),
     -  homeland security,
     -  legislative,
     -  blah blah. 

This list of 'Trampu's' fails re action are clear ... his 'policy' ( tweets / speeches ) are constantly 'clarified' by his advisers .. !


Another point, Federalism.  Moby, you are not American and do not grasp electoral college, etc.     

I understand its pitfalls, very well ...  You ( and others who party have lost but 'won' ) choose to ignore them ..




Under Federalism,  the actions on the frontlines of the health war battles are the responsibility of state and local government, not the Federal government.     

Once again, I DO understand and have watched a 'federal' Europe react at different speeds / differing policy ..these are now excuses as the virus isn't respecting frontiers


Your man ( and 'ours' to a much lessor extent) have not learnt the lessons of nations who are ahead re numbers .. 

There's nothing wrong with optimism ... but giving false hope is a mugs game





Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 23, 2020, 08:30:46 AM
People who live in glass houses should cease throwing stones. Moby does not get a free pass to insult people with the belief we should shut our mouths and feel sorry for him since he screwed up getting his wife home. He claims to be an expert on everything because he talked to experts on everything yet he can't figure out to keep his family together. He needs to get his house in order before telling us how the world's problems should be solved...


Considering your profession (construction), I am surprised with this post. Where I came from, there's no redeeming value in letting a leaky faucet to perpetually drip. Each ensuing drip is exactly like 'Drip Zero'. I recognize that on the onset, and just fixed the leak and moved on. Why continue to listen and watch the leaky faucet?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 23, 2020, 08:44:58 AM
my dearest dumb phuques,
your delusion that obedience to sociopathological elites serve your self-interests
is about to FINALLY be over with...

the Titanic is sinking...
the captain wants the first class passengers to have access to the life boats FIRST...
and then after those passengers cast away
the few remaining boats will be given to the second class passengers...
i.e. YOU!!
everyone else can enjoy a free swim in the North Sea

seriously, you guys still don't "get it" yet?
by the end of this coming weekend, we will have more cases than China....
do you have any idea what this means what the end of freaking July is gonna look like here?
especially in dense, urban areas like NYC, etc.....

do you understand what happens when a highly interconnected economy breaks?
it turns into a long, long, line of dominoes.....
and the first one that falls bumps into the second one and it falls and bumps into the next one and it falls...

sometime this week, maybe today, or tomorrow, the DOW will be down by 50% from say 3 months ago.....
and we are at the very, very, very, early, beginning of the new AD era....
this is like year zero, month 1....
understand now...

do you have any idea of how you will be able to survive in this world, say by the year 10 AD?
I don't...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on March 23, 2020, 08:48:48 AM
Hi guys,

I noticed a lot of political talk here, as it seems to be for most topics.   Anyway, for a change of pace, some news on my end about coronavirus testing:

I live in Massachusetts with a pretty good healthcare insurance through work.  I recently traveled, and I returned from Germany on March 8.

On March 12 I developed a sore throat, and a few days later runny nose.  I called my doctor's office on Monday, March 16, to see if I should come in and get tested/treated.  They advised me, because my symptoms didn't include a fever and shortness of breath, to stay home and call back if it got worse.

I actually got better.  No more sore throat and just a bit of runny nose.  But I want to get tested just to see if I had it or if I am still in risk of getting it later.  So I called the doctor's office today, updating them of my status.  When I asked to get tested, they gave me a triage number to call.  I called that number just now, and the nurse asked a set of screening questions.  I didn't qualify to get tested.  The nurse told me to self isolate for 14 days or until I am symptom free.

There is a shortage of test kits, and only those that pass screening are allowed to be tested.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 23, 2020, 08:58:50 AM
Why continue to listen and watch the leaky faucet?


In my house, I can fix a leaky faucet so I don't have to listen and watch it. I do not have plumber's powers on this forum to fix anything.

SPREAD THE WORD!!!!

Our Head Doctor, the Surgeon General, said we were two weeks behind Italy and we are coming to the second half of our 15 days to stop the spread and this week will be the worst so we all have to act like we have the virus and avoid other people. He also said over half of NY's infected are people under 50. Got to tell those youngsters to quit playing outside.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/this-week-its-going-to-get-bad-surgeon-general-says-people-need-to-take-coronavirus-seriously/ar-BB11zSNN?ocid=spartanntp

There is a shortage of test kits, and only those that pass screening are allowed to be tested.


There are enough test kits for those who pass the screening questions. Most of the symptoms people have are from flus and colds. We do not need to waste precious test kits on those illnesses. Contrary to popular belief, most people infected with coronavirus need to stay at home and not take a bed in a hospital. Only those with serious and critical conditions need the hospital beds and respirators. Eventually enough companies will make enough test kits for all Americans and people of the world to where we can test at home to quickly identify those who are infected and remove them from the general population. This will take months, if not years to accomplish. Another method which will take a few months but not years is doing a Chinese style lockdown which will be unpleasant but more effective. The problem is the virus can enter into the country and begin it's spread again. We will have periods of economic progress and periods of economic hardships causing a yo yo effect. We need to practice washing hands more often, social distancing and other modifications of behavior until we can rid this virus from every human body.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 23, 2020, 09:00:11 AM
did you know that 1/4 of common colds are from another kind of caronavirus...
so your recent cold may have been one of those!
a cousin of covid-19
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on March 23, 2020, 09:02:31 AM
I am wondering how accurately Covid-19 can be tracked if only the most common symptoms qualify for testing?  Not 100% of those who has Covid-19 has the fever and shortness of breath.

If screening is required, then there are not enough test kits, as it shows that testing is being rationed.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on March 23, 2020, 09:07:37 AM
I’m partly listening to the whole session but what was the part where they discussed about a woman who was tortured that prompted Trump to remarked, something to the effect, “she’s ok now, but they did everything to her without killing her!”

What was that about?

I heard it also.  Apparently some AW was being held and tortured by someone in another country.  Don't know any of the details, but I would suspect something like a Muslim woman (with USA citizenship or permanent residency) being tortured by her own relatives for dishonoring the family or some such.  Could also be related to some forced drug running activity.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 23, 2020, 09:08:56 AM
the only way to track it without massive testing
is by modeling...
we've been studying this problem mathematically for over a century...
we can infer the size of the infected in the USA based on its R0 and daily growth rate
many will not be symptomatic and will be out in public, the reported number of infections will be above 100,000 by this coming Sunday night
but ten times this number will actually be harboring the virus by then. or an even million
and a few days later, this will double and then again and again
and in the following weeks more than 5% of the entire country is infected...
and we still haven't hit the FIRST PEAK!!!
 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 23, 2020, 09:20:08 AM
I am wondering how accurately Covid-19 can be tracked if only the most common symptoms qualify for testing?  Not 100% of those who has Covid-19 has the fever and shortness of breath.


Most people calling for a free test can speak on the phone fine, don't need a test and don't need a hospital bed. Anybody that's ill do need self isolation and that can happen in their own home. If someone is having a hard time breathing, they need to go to the emergency room and be seen right away regardless if it's pneumonia developing from a bacterial infection, flu or COVID-19. I got a call from the VA hospital yesterday saying anybody without an appointment will be turned away but if it's an emergency, they will be accepted into the hospital. Although people calling for a test will feel neglected and mad because they were refused a test, the actions done by hospitals are not only done to ration test kits but to reduce the load on medical personnel who should not be wasting time testing all of America when they should be focusing on people who need medical attention right now. No country in the world can win the war in one battle. It's got to happen in stages and the next stage we should be better prepared in reducing the size and scope of the next outbreak.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 23, 2020, 09:21:03 AM
I am wondering how accurately Covid-19 can be tracked if only the most common symptoms qualify for testing?  Not 100% of those who has Covid-19 has the fever and shortness of breath.

If screening is required, then there are not enough test kits, as it shows that testing is being rationed.

I agree with you. This is something I am having a difficult time agreeing to despite understanding what the logic behind it is. Care takers and first responders need to be tested, including those who are symptomatic with underlying health condition. I fully subscribe to this..

Coronavirus.gov

What I am disagreeing with is, if this is what should apply to everyone, then I can't help but wonder how NBA players, even those who tells you openly they aren't suffering any symptoms, are able to get tested? Granted they have their own medical teams, and have the resource to acquire appropriate testing, but then you're getting into the whole 'class' warfare classification again.

This isn't just a US situation either.

FWIW. So far, despite the restricted testing protocol. The rate of infection through these test is only yielding a 10% infection.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 23, 2020, 09:27:23 AM
In my house, I can fix a leaky faucet so I don't have to listen and watch it. I do not have plumber's powers on this forum to fix anything...


Of course you do.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on March 23, 2020, 09:29:04 AM
Any testing only covers up to the current point.

Like STDs, etc., people think a partner is safe because he/she tested negative. 
Well that was only up to the point of blood being withdrawn.

Anyone testing negative, can actually be positive one day, one hour, one minute later.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 23, 2020, 09:29:46 AM
a person with influenza spreads to 1.3-1.4 other people (R0=1.3-1.4). After 10 rounds of infection, 14 people are infected.

R0=3 for coronavirus. After 10 rounds of each COVID19 patient spreading to 3 people, 59,000(!!) people are infected.

this is why they pay me the big bucks and not you guys...
I'll also get a bailout, thank you very much taxpayers
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on March 23, 2020, 09:38:21 AM
Calculating exponential growth.

http://sciencing.com/calculate-exponential-growth-8143625.html
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 23, 2020, 09:40:26 AM
Quote
Iran leader refuses US help; cites coronavirus conspiracy theory
 Ayatollah Ali Khamenei alleges virus 'is specifically built for Iran using the genetic data of Iranians'.
Quote
Iran's supreme leader refused American assistance to fight the new coronavirus citing a conspiracy theory claiming it could be man-made by the United States government.
Ayatollah Ali Khamenei's comments came on Sunday as Iran faces crushing US sanctions blocking the country from selling its crude oil and accessing international financial markets.
"I do not know how real this accusation is but when it exists, who in their right mind would trust you to bring them medication?" Khamenei said. "Possibly your medicine is a way to spread the virus more."
He also alleged the virus "is specifically built for Iran using the genetic data of Iranians, which they have obtained through different means".
"You might send people as doctors and therapists, maybe they would want to come here and see the effect of the poison they have produced in person," Khamenei said.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/iran-leader-refuses-cites-coronavirus-conspiracy-theory-200322145122752.html
I wouldn't make any further offers.


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 23, 2020, 09:45:45 AM
What I am disagreeing with is, if this is what should apply to everyone, then I can't help but wonder how NBA players, even those who tells you openly they aren't suffering any symptoms, are able to get tested? Granted they have their own medical teams, and have the resource to acquire appropriate testing, but then you're getting into the whole 'class' warfare classification again.



Certain groups of people should get favoritism over others because they affect more people than the average Joe sitting at home. Sports stars are in contact with lots of people and their industry can magnify the problem. I'm glad Sports organizations shut down their seasons based right after the first NBA player tested positive. They saved lives. If that player wasn't tested, we'd have tens of thousands of reporters, fans, and half the NBA infected by now.

Of course you do.


I don't ignore leaky faucets at home and I don't ignore anybody here. Some people are free to practice ignoring others. I prefer to remind rude people of their failures which would stop or slow down the leak. We had positive results in slowing down the leak this week.

Anyone testing negative, can actually be positive one day, one hour, one minute later.


Knowing this, there are some people out there that will ask for a free test every other day. They think they are that important and it's their right. I'm sure each test costs over $100 easy but they aren't paying for it. The medical community, not Trump, wisely applied rules and restrictions to who gets tested.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 23, 2020, 09:52:57 AM
Certain groups of people should get favoritism over others because they affect more people than the average Joe sitting at home. Sports stars are in contact with lots of people and their industry can magnify the problem. I'm glad Sports organizations shut down their seasons based right after the first NBA player tested positive. They saved lives. If that player wasn't tested, we'd have tens of thousands of reporters, fans, and half the NBA infected by now.

You just agreed with me and proved my point without even knowing it. If we are only testing people with symptoms, then the rate of infection will not stop exactly because of the statement you just made.

The part I disagree with is the class 'exception'. R0 does not discriminate whether you're an athlete or an average Joe. Transmission rate is the same. Italy is a screaming example of this point.

Quote
I don't ignore leaky faucets at home and I don't ignore anybody here. Some people are free to practice ignoring others. I prefer to remind rude people of their failures which would stop or slow down the leak. We had positive results in slowing down the leak this week.

Okay...There's a huge difference between 'not having' power from 'not exercising' it.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 23, 2020, 10:19:50 AM
South Korea stopped their COVID outbreak. Trump has exploded ours.

Obama and Biden handled H1N1 and Ebola like champs. Biden destroys Trump by comparison.

1) Stopped Ebola IN Africa from becoming a pandemic.
2) Set up a pandemic response office Trump closed, disastrously.
3) Declared H1N1 a Public Health emergency in two weeks.
4) Had H1N1 test kits ready in two weeks.
5) Developed an H1N1 vaccine in five months over GOP opposition.
6) Vaccine stopped the H1N1 pandemic.
7) Kept a CDC office IN CHINA to deal with emerging virus threats, Trump closed it.

If Biden were POTUS we would not have allowed COVID to run wild for 8 weeks while golfing.

We might have done what South Korea did and Trump failed to do: shut it down.

but, Hillary's emails and wiki-leaks and millions of brainless dumb phuques meant Trumpty Dumpty got a chance to build his wall
but instead of doing that, he has had a very great BIG fall...
scrambled egg anyone?
or is that a "nasty" breakfast?

non Trump cult members are worried cult members will once more put Trumpty Dumpty back on the wall this November
but frankly, I now hope you dumb phuques all vote for him again
because that much kool-aid will finally put a complet end to your cult
last time I checked, weren't too many members of jonestown left
and in a couple of years from now there will be FAR less trump cult members out there as well
cuz it don't matter if you want to or not want to drink the corona flavored kool-aid
ALL Trump voters are gonna drink it
I guarantee it


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 23, 2020, 10:25:45 AM

Once again, I DO understand and have watched a 'federal' Europe react at different speeds / differing policy ..these are now excuses as the virus isn't respecting frontiers


Thank God, the USA is not the EU. 

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 23, 2020, 10:30:05 AM
did you know that 1/4 of common colds are from another kind of caronavirus...
so your recent cold may have been one of those!
a cousin of covid-19

And your point?  Other coronas save a couple  have minuscule  mortality.  That is why COVID-19 is referred to as "novel."
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 23, 2020, 10:31:31 AM
South Korea stopped their COVID outbreak. Trump has exploded ours.

If I were in a fight, you would be the last person I would want beside me. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 23, 2020, 10:36:20 AM
"If I were in a fight, you would be the last person I would want beside me."


you're right, cuz you would already be dead....
I know the difference between someone who IS a fighter, and someone who is just "fodder"
I am a natural predator...
when law and order breaks down, I will be free to hunt all I want, absolutely risk free...
people like you...
and this is the only reason I want to keep myself alive now
is to live long enough to be in this period
the period of time, Charles Manson called "Helter Skelter"
cuz baby it's coming, just like he said it would...
you pay attention to your prophets
and I shall heed mine

"Let all the poison that lurks in the mud, hatch out.”

I, Claudius

this is ITS season now...




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 23, 2020, 10:39:22 AM

When BC criticized Trump's communication skills, I wrote:

I understand your point, yet are you missing a more important point:  namely, all those professionals standing behind Trump during his press conferences. They are the ones executing the team effort, with Trump resolving conflicts.     IMO the team seems especially solid.   

Trump gives us an overall perspective.  You and BC abhor the man, so you automatically reject what he says.  Meanwhile, you may be overlooking the many, enormous wheels of the Federal government now rolling in a super crisis mode:
 
     -  Health (FDA, CDC, NIH, USPHS and others), 
     -  logistics (FEMA),
     -  economic (Treasury, Fed),
     -  homeland security,
     -  legislative,
     -  blah blah. 

Its complicated, and I do not pretend to grasp all, or even most. 

Gator,

The director of the orchestra sets the tempo.  He may not even know how to play but one or two instruments, the rest he has to leave up to the musicians.  It is a team effort and that team has to send ONE very clear and coordinated message and not contradict his chosen experts.  There is a crisis playbook that is not being followed.  I do give him credit for not hogging the stage and letting others in his team take over more nowadays.

There is a whole government apparatus in place for all this.. Pandemic and All-Hazards Preparedness and Advancing Innovation Act
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 23, 2020, 10:42:34 AM
"And your point?  Other coronas save a couple  have minuscule  mortality.  That is why COVID-19 is referred to as "novel.""


my point is, this corona virus ain't gonna disappear any more than the common cold is gonna disappear
they are BOTH here permanently....
and both have the same level of immunity
you may have already had a dozen corona virus cold infections in your lifetime
despite that, next one comes along, you might get it anyway, because your immunity to Corona lasts maybe 3 years
so once covid-19 takes hold here and is capable of repeatedly reinfecting, how many times do you think the average person can survive getting it before they die
assuming they get it at the same frequency as a common cold over a long period of time


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 23, 2020, 10:45:54 AM
Thank God, the USA is not the EU.

Indeed, but our reasoning is different !


Anyway some toilet humour to shame the toilet roll hoarders ..

http://thepooptool.com/

and how SC might be dressing to shop, soon ?

http://www.facebook.com/shoooric/videos/2910793055643973/?hc_location=ufi
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 23, 2020, 10:55:48 AM
Boe, Moobs mother can't recall any injustice on my part towards her so I don't know why you should ;D

I posted that I find your need to score on the back of his wife and mother with Alzheimer's reprehensible. I continue to so believe.

Quote
Now I'm batting for SC here, our Moobs is acting anything less than a man and we're trying to make him shape up. The fact that apparently she did not want to live with Mobe & her MIL is not a good sign for him. We're trying to help save our Moobs relationship

How much dealing do you have in taking care of someone with Alzheimer's?  It's stressful and time consuming.  Alzheimer's patients are usually difficult, and introducing someone new to a home could be a disaster to the patient.  We don't know if SC didn't want to go to the UK, or if they, as a couple, decided it would be better for SC to return to Russia.

Were I in lockdown with one of my parents, and that parent had Alzheimer's, I'd suggest the better half not come either, and we've been married more than 3 decades, have raised children together, spend the bulk of our days together, have gone through life altering events, blah, blah, blah.

It's perhaps best if you actually have a relationship before deciding to "help" others with theirs.

you're right, cuz you would already be dead....

OK, I may have cabin fever, but that made me laugh.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 23, 2020, 11:17:38 AM
I had a tough choice like that to make....

decided to go into the bunker. with my family..
and we all know how going into the bunker works out in the end
don't we...

this is not really quite how I imagined the end of the world to be
it's a lot dumber than I thought...

my wife has decided to retreat into her own inner world
while both my children are deviously planning on infecting my wife and I
but...
I just re-wrote my last will and testament and will have it notarized today....
surprise kids!!!!
haha
killing us will have the OPPOSITE effect, you will be poor now
hahaha
unless I survive, and rewrite the will
awwww shucks.....





Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 23, 2020, 11:18:44 AM

R0=3 for coronavirus. After 10 rounds of each COVID19 patient spreading to 3 people, 59,000(!!) people are infected.


Even the experts are not reporting their calculations, and here you are simplifying it on the back of an envelope.  And believing it.   Stop it please!  We already have a high state of confused anxiety.

Here is why I ask you to stop it. 

R0 is a function of susceptibility, exposure and other variables.  The calculation of the population eventually infected typically uses differential equations with multiple variables.  Typical assumptions include  homogeneous mixing, closed population, and no intervention during the outbreak (social distancing certainly would affect your calculations, yes?).

ML gave you some notes on exponential growth.

If interested, here is a mathematical toolbox of equations for estimating infections.     

 http://bmcmedinformdecismak.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1472-6947-12-147

Have fun!  Maybe ML will show them to his wife. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 23, 2020, 11:23:16 AM
There are tentative indications that we may have reached the peak for infections here in Italy.  Despite this, the restriction of movement has been increased.  Everyone must stay in the town they currently are in except for extremely urgent matters.  Most secondary roads are blocked with strict controls on primary roads.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 23, 2020, 11:24:56 AM

my point is, this corona virus ain't gonna disappear any more than the common cold is gonna disappear


I accept that, and it is a good point.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 23, 2020, 11:46:41 AM
I know you're scared Gator....
if you were standing next to me, I'd be able to smell the fear...

if my words cause you a headache
then the opiate of the masses is always there
or feel free to choose another kind of analgesia
to deal with the pain





Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 23, 2020, 12:04:19 PM
The part I disagree with is the class 'exception'. R0 does not discriminate whether you're an athlete or an average Joe. Transmission rate is the same. Italy is a screaming example of this point.


The medical community evaluated their supplies and the situation and if they determine a person who is a public figure or does a job that exposes them to the public needs the test before the average Joe sitting at home, I'm all for it. Regardless if people think it's unfair a rich and famous guy gets tested first, the medical community is making decisions that saves the most lives.

There is a crisis playbook that is not being followed. 


There isn't a playbook for what we are dealing with. The playbook wasn't designed for this kind of virus. Following the rules got us into some trouble. When Obama dealt with the Swine Flu, the rulebook designated CDC to be the sole entity for creating test kits. So we followed the rules and the CDC's supplier screwed up. Trump changed the rules to allow States to hire all private labs to create test kits. We also listened to WHO's advice. After China reported the virus to WHO but didn't let WHO into their country to evaluate the scope and size of the epidemic and study the virus's behavior, WHO trusted China and recommended traveling to and from China is safe. Eventually Trump realized after our first coronavirus case showed up in America Jan 23 that the advice from "experts" was bad advice and did exactly opposite of WHO's recommendation.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on March 23, 2020, 12:23:47 PM
Lots of fear here today. I for one am not ready for check out time

SARS and MERS are still out there too, so why aren't they nailing people left and right? There is stuff we don't understand about viruses. Why can a virus at one point in time convince your cells to replicate it, and other times it cant? For those of us that travel a lot, lived overseas, our bodies developed immune systems that take this stuff on. It is amazing I am not dead yet with all the garbage I have been exposed to. I think the economic and social fallout from this will kill more people than the virus.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 23, 2020, 12:36:30 PM
SARS and MERS are still out there too, so why aren't they nailing people left and right?


Contact tracing, isolation, and quarantine broke the chain of transmission.  I think that's why the strategies being implemented now are important.  But SARS could resurge, as horseshoe bats, indigenous to China, are a source of transmission.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on March 23, 2020, 01:07:37 PM


Anyone testing negative, can actually be positive one day, one hour, one minute later.

Actually, there should be three tests done to be sure, hopefully testing in different areas. There is a chance of a false positive or false negative.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 23, 2020, 01:11:49 PM
I posted that I find your need to score on the back of his wife and mother with Alzheimer's reprehensible. I continue to so believe.

I totally agree. Trench you can find a hundred things to disagree with Moby
based on his arguments and/or facts. There is no need to get either of the
Mrs Moby's involved. If one or both of them join the forum and join in the
debate then you should by all means engage them, but they didn't so they
should be left alone.

Udachi!

Bill
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 23, 2020, 01:19:23 PM
Gator,

The director of the orchestra sets the tempo.

So let me guess, you think that Trump is bad?

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 23, 2020, 01:21:50 PM

SARS and MERS are still out there too, so why aren't they nailing people left and right? There is stuff we don't understand about viruses.


COVID-19 already killed many times the amount of people than SARS and MERS combined in a matter of months. Those two been out a decade or longer. MERS has a case fatality rate of over 30% but COVID-19 behaves differently and makes it much more dangerous even if case fatality rate ends up being less than MERS. COVID-19 rate of transmission is fast and it's hard to identify and remove those who are infected from the general population. A person with MERS knows they are sick fairly quick and can take action against it while a person with COVID-19 can walk around for 2 weeks without knowing they are infected and during that time, infect many other people. SARS and MERS were also coronaviruses. There is no vaccine or treatment for those two after decades of trying to find one and most likely there will be none for COVID-19. USA had our first case of COVID-19 Jan 23 and two months later here we are with massive damage to our economy. The good thing is more people are going to go bankrupt than die from COVID-19. Then when there's no economy left, people dying will significantly increase. Lets hope we don't get to that point.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 23, 2020, 01:26:36 PM
So let me guess, you think that Trump is bad?


:ROFL:


Isn't that what it's always been about?


Whether it's Russian collusion, SC nomination, Blue Crabs of Maryland, Lakers losing to the Clippers, and just about everything else under the sun plus all the other novel coronavirus not yet delivered by bat # 12 on Wang Chung's Chinese franchised restaurant...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 23, 2020, 01:32:50 PM
So let me guess, you think that Trump is bad?

I think there is a LOT of room for improvement. The $64,000 question is if improvements are timely enough to change anything.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on March 23, 2020, 01:38:37 PM
 don't buy the BS that medical intervention and preventative procedures stopped Ebola SARS and MERS. I think they went away on their own. Look at the news today

'Doctor' Rand Paul not social distancing has CV
White House Press Reporter not social distancing has CV

While they are telling us to social distance, they are shoulder to shoulder at Congressional lunches and press conferences. If our most educated , with knowledge of the most up to date way to stop the virus cant

What makes people think MERS SARS or Ebola were handled in 3rd world countries by medical procedure?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=31&v=mA1wqjaeKj0&feature=emb_title
Officials keep warning the public not to touch their faces – and then do just that
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 23, 2020, 01:59:29 PM

'Doctor' Rand Paul not social distancing has CV
White House Press Reporter not social distancing has CV

While they are telling us to social distance, they are shoulder to shoulder at Congressional lunches and press conferences. If our most educated , with knowledge of the most up to date way to stop the virus cant


Those people probably got it from someone in the room that appeared healthy showing no symptoms but carrying CV. If those carriers acquired MERS instead, they probably wouldn't be in that room to infect Rand Paul and a press reporter because they would know they're sick fairly quickly. It's extremely important to get infected people away from the general population and it's hard to do with CV.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 23, 2020, 02:19:34 PM
... It's extremely important to get infected people away from the general population and it's hard to do with CV.



Exactly! Now how is this done if we are only testing people that that meet qualifying criteria? There are people who are infected but doesn't show the symptoms.


Anyway....in Italy, they're not only treating anyone over 60 anymore, they're also no longer counting the dead?!? Well, at least apparently no one gets refused admission due to universal healthcare. The folks over 60 just gets kicked in the corner after admission.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs3wR39tI3Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs3wR39tI3Q)



Reports are saying the dead count doesn't even include those who are dying out of the hospitals but doesn't get tested if they died of COVID, so conceivably the death rate would be much higher.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 23, 2020, 02:36:29 PM
http://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/Immunization/ncov2019.aspx (http://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/Immunization/ncov2019.aspx)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 23, 2020, 02:49:31 PM



.


Anyway....in Italy, they're not only treating anyone over 60 anymore, they're also no longer counting the dead?!? Well, at least apparently no one gets refused admission due to universal healthcare. The folks over 60 just gets kicked in the corner after admission.


Apparently, is found of generalisations.

For sure, there are patients who have not received the care they'd normally be entitled to in a civilised world..due to lack of ventilators and or  staff.


As of just over an hour ago, the UK is on 'lock down' as we are EXACTLY mirroring Italy two weeks ago..

I can just imagine certain US citizens refusing to comply because of their 'rights '....



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 23, 2020, 02:51:47 PM
It is a team effort and that team has to send ONE very clear and coordinated message and not contradict his chosen experts.......

Yes, that would be ideal.    However, on the occasions of Trump's statements having unrealistic optimism...within a minute this happens .....
 
Quote
I do give him credit for not hogging the stage and letting others in his team take over more nowadays.

Yes, and his team quickly tempers his optimism to realistic levels (e. g., the status of using chloroquine). 

Quote
There is a whole government apparatus in place for all this.. Pandemic and All-Hazards Preparedness and Advancing Innovation Act

The PAHPAI Act.  Sounds like the name of a panda, or a Haitian baseball player.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on March 23, 2020, 03:02:24 PM
Those people probably got it from someone in the room that appeared healthy showing no symptoms but carrying CV. If those carriers acquired MERS instead, they probably wouldn't be in that room to infect Rand Paul and a press reporter because they would know they're sick fairly quickly. It's extremely important to get infected people away from the general population and it's hard to do with CV.

I respect your views. In my opinion, this thing will go away on its own and in the FUTURE these draconian measures will be touted as the panacea that saved a generation. In a way I am with Krim, if its a monster its gonna take a ton of lives no matter what we do. In which case, when it gets him, I will rent a back hoe and dig up his back yard for his gold hoard. Cuz, it aint getting me
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on March 23, 2020, 03:15:58 PM

Anyway....in Italy, they're not only treating anyone over 60 anymore, they're also no longer counting the dead?!? Well, at least apparently no one gets refused admission due to universal healthcare. The folks over 60 just gets kicked in the corner after admission.

Didn't I read here, or maybe elsewhere that similar is happening in Los Angeles county?

Maybe it was refusing to test those who were 60 and older or some such because of limited test kits.

Am I wrong on this ??
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 23, 2020, 03:18:18 PM
Didn't I read here, or maybe elsewhere that similar is happening in Los Angeles county?

Maybe it was refusing to test those who were 60 and older or some such because of limited test kits.

Am I wrong on this ??


I don't think there is any discrimination ongoing at this point in time.  If someone appears to have the virulent form of the virus, then they are tested.   If there are minor symptoms, then they, typically, are not.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 23, 2020, 03:26:12 PM

Exactly! Now how is this done if we are only testing people that that meet qualifying criteria? There are people who are infected but doesn't show the symptoms.


Anyway....in Italy, they're not only treating anyone over 60 anymore, they're also no longer counting the dead?!? Well, at least apparently no one gets refused admission due to universal healthcare. The folks over 60 just gets kicked in the corner after admission.


No country can win this war in the first battle. Ideally, with full cooperation, every person on earth should have a test kit and get tested at the same time and if infected, removed from the general population. As of now, no nation on earth has enough test kits for their entire population so the goal is to limit the damage. COVID-19 wins the first battle but we limited the damage.

I respect your views. In my opinion, this thing will go away on its own and in the FUTURE these draconian measures will be touted as the panacea that saved a generation. In a way I am with Krim, if its a monster its gonna take a ton of lives no matter what we do. In which case, when it gets him, I will rent a back hoe and dig up his back yard for his gold hoard. Cuz, it aint getting me


There was a lot of work done to stop SARS and MERS to where it's a very rare occurrence today. Those coronaviruses didn't disappear on their own. Mankind has lost the battle against the common cold and flu viruses so we allow them to exist freely among us. We can not allow COVID-19 to exist in our bodies. It needs to be beat back like SARS and MERS. I agree with Krim that the virus can do great damage but because we have taken action, it's not going to be nowhere near as bad as if we took no action. The more we lose control over this virus, the harder it will be to eliminate it from our bodies.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 23, 2020, 03:29:53 PM
Did I have the CoronaVirus?

Over a week ago, now, I woke up with crust in my eyes, and a significant itch that usually is the first stage of a cold or flu.  I was running a slight temperature, but had no other symptoms. 

As the days wore on, the symptoms remained, with me often waking up with itchy eyes and, then, as I could feel in my extremities, the persistent low grade fever.   

To self medicate, I made it a point to drink lots of water.   Each day I would take a vitamin C booster of 1000mg.  Today, and for the second day, I am symptom free. 

At no time did I experience the dry cough and shortness of breath that seems to prevalent with most overt cases of CoronaVirus.  But, could I, like thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) have experienced the low-grade version of this flu?   

Dunno.  When I called the Dr.'s office, they told me that unless other symptoms presented that I did not require a test.   But the news articles I read during this time - about how one or two symptoms reside in the body until the body either defeats the virus or is defeated by it - surely didn't give me peace.   

To those who actually have been diagnosed, the anxiety must be very high.  My heart goes out to everyone that experiences these worries and I pray that all such people regain their health.

Time for another glass of orange juice.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 23, 2020, 03:32:10 PM
ANOTHER LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL?

The Dept of Defense has a significant research program in defensive measures against biological warfare and bioterrorism.   I hear news here and there of DOD accelerating development and testing for COVID-19 

One such measure would be antibodies (not antibiotics).  It would be both therapeutic and prophylactic, treating patients and protecting healthcare workers (and soldiers).   Not being a vaccine, it would require less testing.  On an accelerated pace, it could possibly be ready  this autumn.   We certainly have ample "mercy cases" to test.

One interview said there were five biopharma companies undertaking exactly this. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 23, 2020, 03:34:51 PM
Jone, did you fever subside along with your symptoms?   

 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Patagonie on March 23, 2020, 03:40:05 PM



Exactly! Now how is this done if we are only testing people that that meet qualifying criteria? There are people who are infected but doesn't show the symptoms.


Anyway....in Italy, they're not only treating anyone over 60 anymore, they're also no longer counting the dead?!? Well, at least apparently no one gets refused admission due to universal healthcare. The folks over 60 just gets kicked in the corner after admission.





Reports are saying the dead count doesn't even include those who are dying out of the hospitals but doesn't get tested if they died of COVID, so conceivably the death rate would be much higher.

1/ As you don't test any suspect IN THE VERY BEGINNING, whatever the real problem is, like it has happened in South Corea
Therefore it happens THIS in France (I suppose that's almost the same in Italy)
 
2/ You have CV people healthy transmitting doing their life like normal people
3/ The ones who have some doubts are "suspects" and stay at home
4/ When they start to be really seek they are transported to hospital
5/ If there is not enough place they stay at home and die at home if they fall in a very bad outcome (already happened in Italy, not yet in France but soon).
6/ As a result a lot of people are outside any medical control, many unintentionaly (believe they have a cold or just flu, or they are healthy transmitter) and few intentionaly (don't want to stop to work, minimize the risk). 
 
So you can guess the outcome of this disaster, I see less than 10% of people wearing gloves and mask (both combined, almost no people) in supermarkets (the most dangerous place of France today).
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 23, 2020, 03:43:18 PM
Yes. Fever is gone.   Just a tiny bit of itchiness remains in my eyes.   But at no time did I ever experience nasal/sinus discharge or diarrhea / stomach discomfort.   And no cough or shortness of breath. 

Were this six weeks down the road, I believe they would have tested me.  Instead, I have self quarantined and go out only for groceries.   

I seem to be getting more business done from home than at any other time.   I think that is because everyone else is glued to their house desks as well.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Patagonie on March 23, 2020, 03:49:46 PM
CV is so close to many other medical problems that you are often not really sure to have it or to have something else.
But 88% of cases have temperature. During the Princes Diamond ship problem the treshold was given to 37.5, which is quite low as you can notice.
Low breathing capacity, cough, seem to belong also to the CV.
Also the flu (not CV) hits you in a very short time so you can almost put an hour on it.
Not the CV, it comes more under the radar.


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 23, 2020, 04:04:30 PM
I think there is a LOT of room for improvement. The $64,000 question is
if improvements are timely enough to change anything.

He so bad that it's almost not worth an effort trying to do better?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on March 23, 2020, 04:07:20 PM
http://www.biospace.com/article/stop-the-conspiracy-theories-novel-coronavirus-has-natural-origin/

http://www.health24.com/Medical/Infectious-diseases/Coronavirus/new-coronavirus-is-not-man-made-new-study-confirms-20200319


I am surprised that I am just now reading that Corona was not made in a lab in China or Canada.

Why hasn't TV news reported this before . . . or have I just missed it ?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 23, 2020, 04:21:40 PM
I know you're scared Gator....
if you were standing next to me, I'd be able to smell the fear...

Confidence has not smell, no sound.   It is something that radiates.      ;)

I suffer from the overconfidence of having over the years faced many challenges and conquering  them all.  This COVID-19 challenge is admittedly different.  It is persistent. It is insidious. It is surrounding us.   The unknowns are many.   News is not good. 

Admittedly this virus gives me concern, so I reduce exposure (health, security  and financial).  The worst case other than death is still survivable .  And I have faith in being able to repeat  my past performances. 

Also driving my confidence is the fact my wife is having anxiety problems, at times maddening.
For her sake,  I can not show anxiety much less fear. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 23, 2020, 04:25:21 PM
We're having a loose form of lockdown from midnight tonight including:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52011915

In addition people are allowed travel to & from work, one outing for exercise a day and travel for food, etc.

In all none of it can really be tracked so it's a lot of rubbish really. It's more just to stop groups congregating and spreading it quickly.

Like Italy in its early lockdown days this won't likely be enough and more draconian measures are likely in the pipeline. Its the UK government using a policy of step change so as the UK public get conditioned to it and it's not all too sudden.

On the news tonight it showed a graph and although we are following Italy's path we are doing so at a slightly slower pace so far.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 23, 2020, 04:36:12 PM
I respect your views. In my opinion, this thing will go away on its own and in the FUTURE these draconian measures will be touted as the panacea that saved a generation. In a way I am with Krim, if its a monster its gonna take a ton of lives no matter what we do. In which case, when it gets him, I will rent a back hoe and dig up his back yard for his gold hoard. Cuz, it aint getting me
A guy who works next door came striding in this morning laughing at my stupid mask.  He said God is going to protect me.   

Fathertime!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Brillynt on March 23, 2020, 04:38:14 PM
Question to All:  Is anybody reading the exchanges between Moby and Trenchcoat?

Only to laugh at Moobs attempts at superior intellect.
Wrong about brexit.
Wrong about the US election.
Wrong about the last UK election.
Wrong about the virus being nothing.

Pretty long list of everything he is wrong about.  But it doesn't matter, he is a legend in his own mind.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 23, 2020, 04:40:55 PM


I can just imagine certain US citizens refusing to comply because of their 'rights '....

A lot don't believe the virus is that serious, or that god will protect them, or the government is out to grab power.   While the roads are much quieter than normal, there is still a lot of people out and about.  In no way is this an effective quarantine in my opinion.    I think the calculation has been made that the lives lost are an unfortunate yet acceptable price to keep our way of life as close to normal as  possible....rather than make the type of sacrifice that CHina did. 

Fathertime!   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 23, 2020, 04:41:24 PM
Left my car in Northern California as I have a residence up there.  Thought I might pick up a beater car for down South, here in Los Angeles.   So I go to Craigslist.    OMG!

I have never seen so many cars for sale at ridiculous prices.  Everyone is either trying to get out from under payments or simply needs the extra cash.   I saw at least four cars today that had:  Must sell today at any reasonable price.   Make an offer!  Cannot wait until tomorrow.

I narrowed it down to four, ranging from $2500 to $6400.   Will take a look this evening.  Were I to wait another week, I think sellers would be even more frantic.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 23, 2020, 05:05:05 PM
Trump just finished addressing the nation. He brought up a good point that if he shut down the economy to fight the virus, the "cure" may cause more problems with depression and increased death. His strategy is to fight the virus without a complete shutdown with the goal of losing the least amount of lives and keeping our economy strong.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 23, 2020, 05:06:33 PM
do all you rednecks realize how vulnerable your house’s roof is to a simple
little incendiary device thrown on it?

I do!!!!!

and I bet if your roof was on fire, ya'll would all come runnin out, now wouldn't ya?

hahahahaha......


honestly, don't know which group I feel more sorry for...
the hoards of geezers who are gonna die off
or the younger survivors, who lived part of their life in the tranquil, prosperous BC period
and the last part in the AD period, and they usually die from the virus or from some other disease by the time they're 40...
and the GDP of the country they're living in, is only 1/4 of what it once was....
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 23, 2020, 05:10:56 PM
do all you rednecks realize how vulnerable your house’s roof is to a simple
little incendiary device thrown on it?

I do!!!!!

and I bet if your roof was on fire, ya'll would all come runnin out, now wouldn't ya?

hahahahaha......

Nah.  My roof would never catch on fire.  I have wood shingles.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 23, 2020, 05:20:02 PM

Were this six weeks down the road, I believe they would have tested me.  Instead, I have self quarantined and go out only for groceries.   


That is not self-quarantine.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 23, 2020, 05:23:56 PM
That is not self-quarantine.
Compared to everyone else I know?   It is by my book.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 23, 2020, 05:30:35 PM
i have major freakin bunker madness ALREADY....
binged on old 60s/70s TV shows....

tonight I am going to have a premium experience
when it is dark
I am going to slip out the back door
and sneak low through the back yard and garden and into the woods behind my house

my attire...
black socks and nike running shoes
black gym shorts

and head mounted night vision
I have made a lot of hacks to a really cheap night vision device
that was surprisingly similar to the Star-Light Scope I used around 40 years ago in the Army
the star-light was much larger, but the image quality very similar between them
and this device cost less than one tenth of one percent of what the Army's cost

my hacks involve stabilizing and balancing the image tube so its usable while running
with this device I should be able to run through a forest at night at full speed while hardly making a sound
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 23, 2020, 06:03:37 PM

Washington State governor just issued a Stay at Home order and all non essential businesses to be shut down. Working in construction, I may be able to still work but some jobsites like a community pool I'm working on may be shut down by the city that owns the project. Other private projects may shut down simply because the inspectors may not work.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 23, 2020, 06:11:27 PM
Left my car in Northern California as I have a residence up there.  Thought I might pick up a beater car for down South, here in Los Angeles.   So I go to Craigslist.    OMG!

I have never seen so many cars for sale at ridiculous prices.  Everyone is either trying to get out from under payments or simply needs the extra cash.   I saw at least four cars today that had:  Must sell today at any reasonable price.   Make an offer!  Cannot wait until tomorrow.

I narrowed it down to four, ranging from $2500 to $6400.   Will take a look this evening.  Were I to wait another week, I think sellers would be even more frantic.

Now we are locked down in the UK, it will be interesting to see which policy is going to 'flatten the curve'...

Those hoping to grab a bargain and those understanding that staying at home saves lives....

Not for the first time, 'Trampu' has chosen US citizens the wrong path...


Expect to see a change of heart when hospital cases go through the roof..

#wearelearningnothingfromtheexperienceofothers

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 23, 2020, 06:33:12 PM
The Democrats sidetracked the CareAct because they want to insert things like  :devil: *Wind and Solar Tax Credit* in the bill?


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 23, 2020, 06:51:28 PM
Washington State governor just issued a Stay at Home order and all non essential businesses to be shut down. Working in construction, I may be able to still work but some jobsites like a community pool I'm working on may be shut down by the city that owns the project. Other private projects may shut down simply because the inspectors may not work.

Unless you are building a hospital, what construction project is so 'vital' ?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Hammer2722 on March 23, 2020, 07:04:59 PM
Unless you are building a hospital, what construction project is so 'vital' ?
Agreed, I work for DOD and have been told my job is essential! We will also be going to 12 hr shifts to work 3 days and 4 hours of tele-work. Wifey was not happy with this news...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 23, 2020, 07:43:24 PM
The Democrats sidetracked the CareAct because they want to insert things like  :devil: *Wind and Solar Tax Credit* in the bill?

I am upset by the political antics surrounding the Congressional economic stimulus bill.   The concern about stimulating the economy and helping laid-off workers has been hijacked by proposals to advance climate change initiatives and other progressive ideas. 

The Republicans of course balked.  I imagine Republicans are not innocent and  had earmarked a couple of their favorite ideas too. 

The particular Representatives and Senators supporting these out-of-context ideas holding up the bill should be identified and shamed.  And for sure be challenged in November.  Maybe some of the districts that elected them are cheering. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 23, 2020, 07:50:44 PM
Unless you are building a hospital, what construction project is so 'vital' ?


Plenty of construction is vital. Washington State will probably model their Stay at Home order after California's which allow hardware stores to remain open and construction work to continue. Article below shows Chicago allowing construction to continue. Second article has NY listing construction along with food markets as essential businesses that can remain open. These are decisions all made by Democrats, not Trump. If you call to fix a gas leak, water leak, or sewer clog, do you think us construction workers can repair them from our homes through a computer? Would you prefer to let us construction workers stay safe at home while your gas leak?

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/commercial-real-estate/coronavirus-wont-stop-chicagos-construction-industry

http://ny.curbed.com/2020/3/20/21187022/coronavirus-new-york-shutdown-shelter-in-place


Article below shows one major reason the virus behavior is extremely dangerous and why it will be back. Iceland, which says it’s tested a higher proportion of inhabitants than any other country, found that about half those who tested positive have no symptoms of Covid-19. Scary.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/wuhan-still-finding-symptom-free-virus-cases-caixin-reports/ar-BB11zo87?ocid=spartanntp

Hong Kong who did a great job limiting the damage of the first outbreak is now battling a second outbreak. Singapore and China are also showing signs of a second outbreak. Lessons learned from the first outbreak should keep loss of lives down during future outbreaks

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hong-kong-appeared-to-have-the-coronavirus-under-control-then-it-let-its-guard-down/ar-BB11z2Ld?ocid=spartanntp

I am upset by the political antics surrounding the Congressional economic stimulus bill.   The concern about stimulating the economy and helping laid-off workers has been hijacked by proposals to advance climate change initiatives and other progressive ideas. 


There's a lot of money in that bill and some politicians see an opportunity to allot some of it to programs that will make their base cheer. Got to get those babies aborted and shave the whales. Today Trump spoke and said all the money in that bill needs to solve issues caused by the virus. Of course it's the Congress that will have the final say in the bill. Trump can't delay and is forced to sign it immediately after Congress hands it over to him.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 23, 2020, 07:57:50 PM
Plenty of construction is vital.


They are still building the high rise apartment buildings here in Batumi.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 23, 2020, 08:22:24 PM

There was a funny moment during today's virus briefing. Start at the 2:15 mark and finish at the 2:40 mark. Dr. Blix said she had a fever and watch what Trump does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz4025BFNDs
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 23, 2020, 08:24:38 PM
I know folks like fathertime doesnt think much of American resiliency nor exceptionalism. He has more faith with his Chinese chums. I strongly differ (surprise!). That’s likely because I’m an unashamed and proud Patriot 1-AA hahah!

It is during times like this that Americans rise to the occasion. I love how our private industries are mobilizing to do their share to help any way they can. The McGuyvers in us always seem to appear. Just like the creation of the 45-minute test kits by Celpheid; the self-swab test kit; and of course those ingenious band of doctors of the university of Minnesota who invented a $150.00 ventilator prototype that’s waiting for FDA approval. Ugly as it may be, it not only works but if approved, won’t take too much to produce.

The Ventilator Deluxe (http://www.kare11.com/mobile/article/news/health/coronavirus/going-full-on-macgyver-u-of-m-doctor-creates-makeshift-ventilators-to-battle-covid-19/89-ecf8ced9-fd76-478b-ad6e-ae3aeab50b4a)

Americans flattening the curve one day at a time! Bring it on baby!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 23, 2020, 08:43:27 PM
I know folks like fathertime doesnt think much of American resiliency nor exceptionalism. He has more faith with his Chinese chums. I strongly differ (surprise!). That’s likely because I’m an unashamed and proud Patriot 1-AA hahah!

It is during times like this that Americans rise to the occasion. I love how our private industries are mobilizing to do their share to help any way they can. The McGuyvers in us always seem to appear. Just like the creation of the 45-minute test kits by Celpheid; the self-swab test kit; and of course those ingenious band of doctors of the university of Minnesota who invented a $150.00 ventilator prototype that’s waiting for FDA approval. Ugly as it may be, it not only works but if approved, won’t take too much to produce.

The Ventilator Deluxe (http://www.kare11.com/mobile/article/news/health/coronavirus/going-full-on-macgyver-u-of-m-doctor-creates-makeshift-ventilators-to-battle-covid-19/89-ecf8ced9-fd76-478b-ad6e-ae3aeab50b4a)

Americans flattening the curve one day at a time! Bring it on baby!

+1 Buddy
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 23, 2020, 08:53:55 PM
This current battle we are all in the midst of should give all of us a cause to pause. We are in this fight together. #AloneTogether

So I share this link to all of you as a reminder sometimes a little bit of humor can go a long way.

Fight On People! (http://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2986221594775701&id=100001636684763&_rdr)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 23, 2020, 09:02:07 PM
Plenty of construction is vital. Washington State will probably model their Stay at Home order after California's which allow hardware stores to remain open and construction work to continue. 
In my opinion if we are under a real quarantine even most hardware stores and construction should stop.   Sure things like gas leaks got to be handled, but many if not most aren't taking the quarantine as seriously as perhaps they should.   I had dozens of people come by again today, and most were for non essential type things.  Not one mask was worn by the adventurers.   One guy brought his 3 young kids along.  At the supply center I use not one warehouse worker had a mask on and they were all smoking together in a tight circle during break.  Until bodies start piling up, the 'social contract' quarantine will not be taken seriously my many.

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 23, 2020, 09:06:11 PM
I know folks like fathertime doesnt think much of American resiliency nor exceptionalism. He has more faith with his Chinese chums. I strongly differ (surprise!). That’s likely because I’m an unashamed and proud Patriot 1-AA hahah!
China did a much better job of quarantining their  people.  They made the sacrifice.  Resiliency and exceptionalism are merely words, and the actions currently aren't demonstrating anything all that exceptional or resiliency unless it is defined by who can build the most exceptional fortress of toilet paper. 

Fathertime!   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 23, 2020, 09:11:52 PM
Compared to everyone else I know?   It is by my book.
It really isn't but yeah compared to others in the LA area it is probably better than most. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 23, 2020, 09:15:27 PM
Trump just finished addressing the nation. He brought up a good point that if he shut down the economy to fight the virus, the "cure" may cause more problems with depression and increased death. His strategy is to fight the virus without a complete shutdown with the goal of losing the least amount of lives and keeping our economy strong.

Well now that Trump has laid out his objectives we shall see how it is implemented.  It sounds like he wants to open up the country in a few weeks.  From my view, we won't have made the necessary sacrifice so by opening up we will pay dearly in terms of deaths but I think he has already calculated that in and has determined that it is the best option. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 23, 2020, 09:44:37 PM
The country of Colombia in South America can show the US what a real quarantine looks like.  Their leadership isn't afraid to do what it takes and sacrifice for the benefit of all.   I'll be curious to see how effective the quarantine is.  We in the states don't know real sacrifice, nor are we willing to accept it....for now. 

Colombia to hold 19-day quarantine to fight coronavirus

Colombia will enter a nationwide quarantine from Tuesday night, President Ivan Duque said late on Friday, the most drastic measure implemented so far by the South American country as it seeks to prevent the spread of the fast-moving coronavirus.....

.....Government sources said they will include movement exceptions for medical personnel, security forces and workers at pharmacies and supermarkets.....


 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-colombia-quarantin/colombia-to-hold-19-day-quarantine-to-fight-coronavirus-idUSKBN218068    (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-colombia-quarantin/colombia-to-hold-19-day-quarantine-to-fight-coronavirus-idUSKBN218068)

Fathertime! 

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 23, 2020, 10:02:41 PM
MORE GOOD NEWS

(http://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/C7rDrWFU458KnX0XIfohpw_OfdT2wwSRPbmcB-I0nXtAKOdEpfVGpng-V94sL0jS5DfsuDpTMQ0ui0ZIKyeYf0FlycnxVglAQIRpL8zR4SSYzAX2uy70pzwxuc1v=s0-d-e1-ft#http://www.teaparty.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/0_qeMGXTr7WBrq2N9w.jpg)


Yes, its China and the improvement likely results from their draconian quarantine methods.  Such would be a hard sell  in America, yet partial implementation  would help to reduce the spread.   

China also mobilized and expanded its healthcare resources, and the good news in America is that we are also achieving the same, e. g., deployment of military resources, expanded manufacturing of medical supplies by business. 

China did not have meds, and the early promise of the existing malaria med hydroxychloroquine as an effective  therapeutic drug would be a game changer for America.  There are many other initiatives in America on a thousand fronts. 

Is it time to celebrate?  Not yet.   However, mark me down as optimistic. 
           
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 23, 2020, 10:21:33 PM
Plenty of construction is vital. Washington State will probably model their Stay at Home order after California's which allow hardware stores to remain open and construction work to continue.

Disagree.. What is vital, other then stopping the spread of the contagion ..?


These are decisions all made by Democrats, not Trump. If you call to fix a gas leak, water leak, or sewer clog, do you think us construction workers can repair them from our homes through a computer? Would you prefer to let us construction workers stay safe at home while your gas leak?

These are utilities workers, to me ... not construction .. THEY are vital - as you state...as are those running utilities, food distribution and health care

 





http://www.chicagobusiness.com/commercial-real-estate/coronavirus-wont-stop-chicagos-construction-industry

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 23, 2020, 10:41:25 PM
Well now that Trump has laid out his objectives we shall see how it is implemented.  It sounds like he wants to open up the country in a few weeks.  From my view, we won't have made the necessary sacrifice so by opening up we will pay dearly in terms of deaths but I think he has already calculated that in and has determined that it is the best option. 

Fathertime! 

Keep in mind, he also said State and local leaders should make their own decisions within their jurisdictions knowing a one size solution doesn't fit for all of America. If a region in America gets an outbreak, it should be locked down but the rest of America can continue to function.

http://www.biospace.com/article/stop-the-conspiracy-theories-novel-coronavirus-has-natural-origin/

http://www.health24.com/Medical/Infectious-diseases/Coronavirus/new-coronavirus-is-not-man-made-new-study-confirms-20200319


I am surprised that I am just now reading that Corona was not made in a lab in China or Canada.

Why hasn't TV news reported this before . . . or have I just missed it ?

I had time to read those two links and I'm not impressed. Both links leads to the Nature Medicine article below.

http://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

Our comparison of alpha- and betacoronaviruses identifies two notable genomic features of SARS-CoV-2: (i) on the basis of structural studies7,8,9 and biochemical experiments1,9,10

The authors of the article didn't do the studies and experiments but relied on studies and experiments performed by others noted in the referenced numbers. If you look at the bottom of the web link, much of the information they rely on comes from China.

Plants want to live like you and I. They grow thorns, tough skins, and taste bitter to discouraged other living things from eating them. The wheat we grow is different than the wheat the Romans ate. We breed fruits and vegetables to have less thorns, be bigger, less bitter, and appealing in color. Some of these experiments happen in laboratories. We can breed animals and other living things too until we get the results we want. Labs that create biological weapons aren't much different. They can try to genetically mutate a virus or inject the virus in many animals and allow it to mutate naturally within animals bodies until they find the toughest most dangerous strain to use in war.

This new coronavirus has never been found in an animal. Not in a snake pen, not in a cave of bats, or herd of camels. There hasn't been an animal on earth found that carried the virus and gave it to humans. What's the sense of exterminating the virus from our bodies when the killer is running loose in an animal only kill again? There should be a massive manhunt for the animal source that started this. I can't stress enough the importance of finding the source because even if we are successful in beating the virus out of every human body, we can experience this again if the animals that's carrying the virus aren't exterminated. It's costing lives, and we are going to spend untold trillions, and years to fight this virus. Isn't it worth spending a few billion dollars to fund the largest manhunt in history to find the source? If China didn't spend any money, manhours, and effort to find the animal source, they know where it came from.

Disagree.. What is vital, other then stopping the spread of the contagion ..?


Stopping the virus in round 1 is not possible. We are limiting the damage. Stopping construction hurts the economy. There are two things getting damaged here, lives and economy. Construction workers often work outside and they don't work within kissing distance of each other so they are low risk for getting infected. Bars are closed so that helps.


These are utilities workers, to me ... not construction .. THEY are vital - as you state...as are those running utilities, food distribution and health care


Government utility companies do not fix things in your house. Leaky water pipe, call a plumber. Electrical problem, call an electrician. Sewer line broke in your yard, call a private underground utility company. All are construction workers. Photo of the large building and crane in Chicago is done by private contractors. There is huge dollars in construction projects that rack up interest. Best to keep those projects moving along to help the economy. Don't be jealous the government considers me as important as firefighters, police, medical workers and cashiers at the food market in the frontline battle against the virus  :tongueout:
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 23, 2020, 10:50:39 PM
MORE GOOD NEWS

(http://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/C7rDrWFU458KnX0XIfohpw_OfdT2wwSRPbmcB-I0nXtAKOdEpfVGpng-V94sL0jS5DfsuDpTMQ0ui0ZIKyeYf0FlycnxVglAQIRpL8zR4SSYzAX2uy70pzwxuc1v=s0-d-e1-ft#http://www.teaparty.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/0_qeMGXTr7WBrq2N9w.jpg)


Yes, its China and the improvement likely results from their draconian quarantine methods.  Such would be a hard sell  in America, yet partial implementation  would help to reduce the spread.   

China also mobilized and expanded its healthcare resources, and the good news in America is that we are also achieving the same, e. g., deployment of military resources, expanded manufacturing of medical supplies by business. 

China did not have meds, and the early promise of the existing malaria med hydroxychloroquine as an effective  therapeutic drug would be a game changer for America.  There are many other initiatives in America on a thousand fronts. 

Is it time to celebrate?  Not yet.   However, mark me down as optimistic. 
           

Sorry, Gator,

But I take everything China says with a grain of salt.  Officials have been lying to us since the outbreak.   Do you recall when they were saying that it could not be transmitted person to person?

While National Review is a conservative media outlet, I see no reason not believe what they have written.

http://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/chinas-devastating-lies/

My take is that there is still fallout and that the death toll is about ten times what they have reported.

There is a reason that Western news journalists were kicked out of China.  I think China's even done a number on the WHO.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 23, 2020, 11:08:33 PM

Some people say the virus was out before December in China, much earlier than China is claiming. Many of you heard about lower level Chinese officials recently accusing the American Army of releasing the virus into Wuhan. We simply dismissed this accusation but the statement made by China is an indirect admission the virus was around in October 2019 when America sent over 170 military personnel to participate in the Military World Games held in Wuhan. In the middle of November, my uncle and other tourists were touring China by train and was supposed to make a scheduled stop in Wuhan. The Chinese military stopped their train and told them to go around the city.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Military_World_Games

China got 133 gold medals and the most medals overall and America got zero gold medals and placed 35th in the medal count.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 23, 2020, 11:18:11 PM
MORE GOOD NEWS
       

Gator,

China is an apple with every other country a different fruit.

If the data in the chart is accurate (I'm just saying not doubting) one has to weigh their containment efforts vs that of others.  Still talking many months.  If signs that Italy has peaked, I expect another two months of containment then very gradual lifting and testing of the general population thereafter to last well into next year.

Those like Italy have a much higher percentage of the population infected.  This not only results in a higher number of deaths but would also prolong the period to reach the zero point as infections will continue.

So without hermetic containment, but with some efforts being made, one could expect the peak to be spread, but also that the 'spread' (representing number of infections and time) to increase.

The graph seems to represent a period of 50 days, and containment still continues albeit somewhat loosened up for some.

Hydroxychloroquine and antibiotic combinations did have an effect on the viral load detected, but was not a randomized study, with only a limited number of participants, lasted 6 days and did not go on to determine the outcome and efficacy of a full treatment regime.  Of those that received hydroxychloroquine with or without antibiotics, some still went to ICU and at least one died.  Another could not tolerate the side effects and IIRC one dropped out.

Not trying to piss on your parade, but do recognize that there are those much smarter than us RWD MD's looking at all possibilities.  None have jumped for joy yet.


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 23, 2020, 11:36:03 PM
one has to weigh their containment efforts vs that of others.


 Before the Jan 23 lockdown of Wuhan, their worst infected city, they allowed 5 million people to leave Wuhan and allowed 3 million people in. China allowed hundreds of millions of Chinese to crisscross all over China to celebrate New Year back home wherever that was to each person. With a population 23 times larger than Italy and allowing mass migration in January, they will end up with less infections and much less deaths than Italy. Do you want Italy to try what China did to keep their numbers low? Maybe they manipulated their numbers to make it look like they did a good job? I will admit the draconian style lockdown can be effective but what happened before that was reckless and the Chinese government should be charged with murder.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 23, 2020, 11:49:10 PM
Billy,

IIRC they closed down Hubei province.  Sure folks fled from the city into the province as much as they could.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 24, 2020, 12:08:32 AM
Yes, that would be ideal.    However, on the occasions of Trump's statements having unrealistic optimism...within a minute this happens .....
 
Yes, and his team quickly tempers his optimism to realistic levels (e. g., the status of using chloroquine). 


I wonder if the most important person on his team has been 'disappeared'...  Guess we will find out at today's conference.

(http://image1.masterfile.com/getImage/NzAwLTAwMDc4NDM3ZW4uMDAwMDAwMDA=ANnf9R/700-00078437en_Masterfile.jpg)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 24, 2020, 12:19:27 AM
Billy,

IIRC they closed down Hubei province.  Sure folks fled from the city into the province as much as they could.

It was a multi step process. First shutdown of Wuhan Jan 23

http://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/23/wuhan-quarantine-shutting-down-a-city-five-times-the-size-of-london-102694

China widens travel restrictions to other cities in Hubei Jan 24. Going from Wuhan into Hubei is like jumping out of a pan into the fire. It's all bad. 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51230011

They knew this virus was out long before the 5 million people left the city and 3 million entered the city. Not all the citizens fled the city to get away from the Wuhan pneumonia. Some just wanted to travel to family elsewhere to celebrate New Year. The 3 million people working in other cities who came home to Wuhan for New Years had no idea there was a killer virus running loose since the government deletes any report about the virus on the internet.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 24, 2020, 12:24:22 AM
Do you want Italy to try what China did to keep their numbers low? Maybe they manipulated their numbers to make it look like they did a good job?

Has the US, albeit unintentional (will leave doubt to the conspiracy folks) kept the numbers artificially low by limited testing?  Untested deaths are not being counted and even many with symptoms at hospitals still going without.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 24, 2020, 02:48:37 AM
http://www.politico.com/interactives/2020/coronavirus-testing-by-state-chart-of-new-cases/

Is being updated live, shows the number of tests in each state and has a slider at the top so you can see how infections grow over time.

By the end of the day, the US will be Nr 1 in the world with active Covid cases, mostly in the northeast but moving fast to the south and west.

I can understand the US wants to get back to business for economic reasons, but without a coordinated nationwide shutdown, every major city can become the new hotspot like NYC.

Already some governors are saying they will keep shutdowns despite federal 'guidance' or even an all clear, but again their risk increases dramatically with every traveller from other states that have less stringent measures in place.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 24, 2020, 04:44:06 AM
I will admit the draconian style lockdown can be effective but what happened before that was reckless and the Chinese government should be charged with murder.
While we are charging China with murder we may as well charge Trump and the US government with murder also.  It appears the determination has been made that our economy is going to be more important than lives. So the US government is now playing god.

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 24, 2020, 04:47:11 AM
Has the US, albeit unintentional (will leave doubt to the conspiracy folks) kept the numbers artificially low by limited testing?  Untested deaths are not being counted and even many with symptoms at hospitals still going without.
In my opinion yes. 

The bottom line will end up being how many unnecessary deaths were caused.  It seems to have been decided that the US economy is going to trump a few extra deaths, or perhaps a lot of extra deaths. 

Fathertime!   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 24, 2020, 04:55:35 AM
Keep in mind, he also said State and local leaders should make their own decisions within their jurisdictions knowing a one size solution doesn't fit for all of America. If a region in America gets an outbreak, it should be locked down but the rest of America can continue to function.
I'd say this is where leadership at the top in the US would play a bigger role.  At this point, It won't do California much good to lock down if Arizona doesn't, and it won't do Mississippi much good to lock if Louisiana doesn't lock down.   So there will be deaths, and perhaps a lot of them.  They could be prevented, but the US doesn't have the stomach to do it, the US isn't willing to make the sacrifice that other nations are attempting.  The US and the world will pay a consequence in deaths for our decision.  Down the line I won't be surprised if US travelers aren't wanted or quarantined in parts of the world.

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 24, 2020, 05:12:56 AM
I supposed trenchcoat and those who supported Brexit have a point in their sentiment about the ‘EU’s ineptness. What has it done for its member states? I can’t help but look at the dynamics of our federal, state, and local government function, then I look at the European mess.

I heard Italy’s request for aid fell on deaf ears. Sad. That union is as useless as the UN. Yeah, what the heck is that union doing about the current global condition too?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 24, 2020, 05:16:35 AM
I'd say this is where leadership at the top in the US would play a bigger role.  At this point, It won't do California much good to lock down if Arizona doesn't, and it won't do Mississippi much good to lock if Louisiana doesn't lock down.   So there will be deaths, and perhaps a lot of them.  They could be prevented, but the US doesn't have the stomach to do it, the US isn't willing to make the sacrifice that other nations are attempting.  The US and the world will pay a consequence in deaths for our decision.  Down the line I won't be surprised if US travelers aren't wanted or quarantined in parts of the world.

Fathertime!

Wooo! Fathertime relax. You’re safe, man. Exhale a little. I’m seeing some serious paranoia in you. The virus won’t come knocking on your door. Trump will make sure if that. You’ve been wiggin’ out in us, man. Yeah
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 24, 2020, 05:28:42 AM
Wooo! Fathertime relax. You’re safe, man. Exhale a little. I’m seeing some serious paranoia in you. The virus won’t come knocking on your door. Trump will make sure if that. You’ve been wiggin’ out in us, man. Yeah
You are 'seeing' nothing.  I'm not safe as nobody is, but that is the way of the world, and I've pretty much always accepted that.  Trump will see to nothing, his priority is to keep the economy strong at near all costs.  I'm going into work among the people as usual today wearing my stupid mask, and hoping for the best.  Many others are staying at home with behind a wall of toilet paper.   How about you? 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on March 24, 2020, 05:52:31 AM
Just went to the State Dept Website, the advice given Thursday not to travel abroad is more than advice,, Its a Level 4 Travel Warning. Further, all Americans abroad need to return home now, or they might be stuck for a long period of time. It appears to me the USA is gearing up for a full national lockdown that goes for months.
  If so, There goes my May trip to see my GF

U.S. Airlines Pondering Complete Shutdown of Commercial Flights

TheStreet.comMarch 24, 2020
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 24, 2020, 06:03:37 AM
You are 'seeing' nothing.  I'm not safe as nobody is, but that is the way of the world, and I've pretty much always accepted that.  Trump will see to nothing, his priority is to keep the economy strong at near all costs.  I'm going into work among the people as usual today wearing my stupid mask, and hoping for the best.  Many others are staying at home with behind a wall of toilet paper.   How about you? 

Fathertime!

Your hysterics is beyond belief! Literally comical now. You’re supposed to be the pillar of strength in your household you know. You’ll stress people around you needlessly to the point their immune level will be greatly compromised, man. Heck, they may even have heart attacks, heaven forbid, watching you wig out so much.

I’ve never seen such hysterics shown by a dude e-v-e-r. ‘Know what I mean?

Breathing exercise man. Take time out. Inhale-exhale-inhale-exhale repeat two more times. Alright? I’m about to head out to San Diego now so I won’t be here to watch over you for a bit. Just remember, inhale-exhale-inhale-exhale...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 24, 2020, 06:06:36 AM
I supposed trenchcoat and those who supported Brexit have a point in their sentiment about the ‘EU’s ineptness. What has it done for its member states? I can’t help but look at the dynamics of our federal, state, and local government function, then I look at the European mess.

I heard Italy’s request for aid fell on deaf ears. Sad. That union is as useless as the UN. Yeah, what the heck is that union doing about the current global condition too?

IMHO, the WHO information as an arm of the UN is as reliable as China. The EU has pretty much been MIA through Europe's entire ordeal. All of those member states should question what their membership has done for them
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 24, 2020, 06:15:59 AM
Your hysterics is beyond belief! Literally comical now. You’re supposed to be the pillar of strength in your household you know. You’ll stress people around you needlessly to the point their immune level will be greatly compromised, man. Heck, they may even have heart attacks, heaven forbid, watching you wig out so much.

I’ve never seen such hysterics shown by a dude e-v-e-r. ‘Know what I mean?

Breathing exercise man. Take time out. Inhale-exhale-inhale-exhale repeat two more times. Alright? I’m about to head out to San Diego now so I won’t be here to watch over you for a bit. Just remember, inhale-exhale-inhale-exhale...
What a lame response!   Trying to make it personal because you have nothing else to say.   Members of my household are fine, and based in the risks of reality.  How about your household, you and your wife, hidden behind a wall of toilet paper, pretending to be forged in strength while keeping your distance from the rest of the world.   
Enjoy the BS of talk radio during your ride, and don't forget the economy is the choice trump has made, it has little to do with courage, but a lot to do with the bucks.  For better or worse that is reality. 

Fathertime!   

Fathertime!   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 24, 2020, 06:34:51 AM

What a complete failure!   My very old pops is in one of these places.  I visit almost every night at a safe distance as he cracks the window open.   I've learned that individuals need to actually be present in situations to prevent events like what the article shows happened in spain.  I'd have to ask, where were the adult children of the elderly?  Sadly caretakers sometimes only conduct minimum care if they feel they are held to account.  In this case, it looks like the elderly were just abandoned and left to choke to death alone.   
Spanish Rest Home Residents Found Abandoned, Dead In Their Beds

Elderly residents of Spanish retirement homes have been found abandoned or dead in their beds by soldiers who are helping during the coronavirus pandemic.

Spain Defense Minister Margarita Robles confirmed the discoveries at multiple establishments during an interview on Telecinco’s “El Programa de Ana Rosa” on Monday, reported El Pais. She vowed to bring “the full weight of the law” down on the home administrators “who don’t meet their obligations.”....


 http://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/soldiers-retirement-home-coronavirus-spain-121524656.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/soldiers-retirement-home-coronavirus-spain-121524656.html)

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 24, 2020, 06:48:39 AM
Bargain!!! A great bargain was had today! :D Went to fill up my 20 litre petrol can I recently bought with unleaded petrol. When I got to my local ASDA filling station fuel had crashed from 114 - 116 pence per litre down to 1.02 pence per litre! :D

I noticed on the pump they only allowed 5 litre cans, but the filling station was quiet (no cars queuing behind me) so I got my can and I walked it to the rear of my car so to hide it from view from the kiosk. I then filled my car and the my 20 litre can without fuss. The woman in the kiosk was happily nattering away on the phone so the perfect distraction! :)

So got my fuel for far less than would have otherwise been the case. I can see fuel stations potentially being shut of to all but emergency services and lorries in the near future so thought best I got in now. Guessing petrol prices way down not only because of the Russian/Middle East thing but also this recent crash to the lockdown.

Great songs will no doubt be sung for generations to come of the good deal had this day!!! :cheesy:
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 24, 2020, 06:49:23 AM
I supposed trenchcoat and those who supported Brexit have a point in their sentiment about the ‘EU’s ineptness. What has it done for its member states? I can’t help but look at the dynamics of our federal, state, and local government function, then I look at the European mess.

I heard Italy’s request for aid fell on deaf ears. Sad. That union is as useless as the UN. Yeah, what the heck is that union doing about the current global condition too?

They didn't have any 'point' and don't have one, now ..

These are unique circumstances and I've observed my fellow villagers want to ban 'outsiders' from 'infecting us'... 

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 24, 2020, 06:57:52 AM
They didn't have any 'point' and don't have one, now ..

These are unique circumstances and I've observed my fellow villagers want to ban 'outsiders' from 'infecting us'...

More words amounting to nothing more but incoherent babble. You quote a poster  and do not agree nor disagree, nor do you add anything germane to the discussion. You make statements that mean absolutely nothing. One single coherent thought could rest in that empty head of yours for literally years
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 24, 2020, 07:01:12 AM
More words amounting to nothing more but incoherent babble. You quote a poster  and do not agree nor disagree, nor do you add anything germane to the discussion. You make statements that mean absolutely nothing. One single coherent thought could rest in that empty head of yours for literally years

Your well-reasoned, point by point 'counters' just keep a comin' ...

I DISAGREED, with an explanation - but your 'sharp mind' has yet to be penetrated ... as to the event ... 

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 24, 2020, 07:19:11 AM
GQ,

EU is quite unlike the US, EU has no armed forces, FEMA type organizations, CDC type arrangement nor does it manage some national stockpile for disasters. It does not govern member states, the states govern EU. It is only there to give guidance and provide uniform rules and laws to member states along with development assistance to level the playing field. That is why any major decisions like Brexit need concurrence of all member states.  Member states pay to support the structure, but citizens are not taxed directly.

I guess it is something akin to 'little .gov' many in the US strive for where states have the most power.

After this is all over, the member states may well sit together and decide on a better-structured disaster response capability.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 24, 2020, 07:27:20 AM
Moby,

I guess I have to agree with FP, you and trench both seem to have a penchant for making any topic about yourselves.  Many of the behaviours you two exhibit are described in Psych 101 textbooks.

No, I'm not going to reply.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 24, 2020, 07:31:15 AM
BC,

I AM going to respond ... Do I look like I'm 'bovvered' concerning your discerning observational skills ?  ..

My mentioning the siege mentality in 'my'  village was not an affirmation - but an example ...

Do you remember your describing your wife's journey to the supermarket ? ...

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 24, 2020, 07:35:13 AM

But I take everything China says with a grain of salt.  Officials have been lying to us since the outbreak.   Do you recall when they were saying that it could not be transmitted person to person?


The police also throttled the young doctor who first discovered a "new type of pneumonia."  Yes, China made huge mistakes.  I not only question the Chinese government today, I dislike them.    However, this particular data set is interesting as it shows something less deleterious than the public's perception.   

We will see similar types of data from other nations as their surges slow.   


Quote
I think China's even done a number on the WHO.

For sure.  WHO's Director-General Tedros Adhanom was China's man when appointed (China made large investments in Ethiopia).  He praises China's effort.   :barf:

We still have sappers inside the wire, yet I am optimistic based on the total sum of the effort underway and my analysis of data.   Jone, when judging what I say about China data, temper it with what I wrote in the first RWD post about coronavirus. 

 
Upon first learning of  2019-nCoV, I dismissed it,  believing China with its authoritarian government would take the necessary measures to limit its spread. 

China has failed so far;  the number of human infections has progressed exponentially and continues to do so. The total number of confirmed cases already far exceeds the total number of cases reported for SARS, another coronavirus originating in China.
   
 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 24, 2020, 07:44:56 AM

Not trying to piss on your parade, but do recognize that there are those much smarter than us RWD MD's looking at all possibilities.  None have jumped for joy yet.


Smarter than RWD members?!  No way!   ;)

BC, you make valid points.

A lot of people will die.  Some may die from side effects of these not fully tested medications.  Yet, the effort on all fronts to address this virus is huge.  We will prevail over this disease. 

I am less optimistic about the speed that our economy recovers. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 24, 2020, 07:50:49 AM
I wonder if the most important person on his team has been 'disappeared'...  Guess we will find out at today's conference.

Many people are questioning this.  I hope he is still around.  If not, it will look bad for Trump. One needs all informed opinions when making decisions. 

The last time I saw the good doctor, someone questioned his absence from the Task Force.  He replied that he is busy with many teams. 

Most important?  All are important.  Yet, he was perhaps the most credible. 

 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 24, 2020, 07:56:40 AM
Some may die from side effects of these not fully tested medications.

One already died from the news about a not fully tested medication.

http://www.foxnews.com/health/arizona-man-dies-after-taking-drug-chloroquine-coronavirus
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on March 24, 2020, 09:14:09 AM
One already died from the news about a not fully tested medication.

http://www.foxnews.com/health/arizona-man-dies-after-taking-drug-chloroquine-coronavirus (http://www.foxnews.com/health/arizona-man-dies-after-taking-drug-chloroquine-coronavirus)


Died from drinking fish tank cleaner. Sounds like natural selection, not Trumps fault.


HDL
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 24, 2020, 09:34:13 AM

not Trumps fault.


Sure, still have to be careful about the information that is sent out.  Using words like 'gamechanger', even adding 'maybe' afterwards isn't very wise. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 24, 2020, 10:15:37 AM
Further to my post two days ago..looks like Spain has now hit the curve too.

Deaths down by 50 and new cases down by 1800 compared to yesterday.

I'm very confident we'll have less Corona virus deaths in the UK than the average 17,000 deaths per year from Flu here.

I'm also confident you'll have less Corona virus deaths in the USA than the average 36,000 deaths per year from Flu there.

In 6 months everyone will be scratching their heads wondering what all the panic/bedwetting was about..of course our economy will be in meltdown by then.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 24, 2020, 11:57:27 AM
One already died from the news about a not fully tested medication.

Did you read the article?  He and wife consumed fish tank cleaner, one ingredient of which is chloroquine, the hyped malaria drug. 

I wonder what other chemicals are ingredients in fish tank cleaner.  I assign this to the "IDIOT" file.  Surely no doctor advised them to do this. 
 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 24, 2020, 12:11:58 PM
Did you read the article?  He and wife consumed fish tank cleaner, one ingredient of which is chloroquine, the hyped malaria drug. 

I wonder what other chemicals are ingredients in fish tank cleaner.  I assign this to the "IDIOT" file.  Surely no doctor advised them to do this. 
 

Shame on him!  What are the fish gonna do now for a clean tank? 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 24, 2020, 12:31:40 PM
Just watched on Fox News a town hall with Trump and selected task force members.

NIH's Tony Fauci was not present.  Fox asked Trump about his absence, and he replied that Tony is busy doing many other things.  When asked about the personal relationship with Fauci, Trump answered the relationship is good.

Instead of Fauci, Trump's Surgeon General and Dr. Deborah Brix attended.  Brix has impressed me as an intelligent, credible medical member of the Task Force.

Here are some notes of what I found important:

     -  The US has conducted more tests in the past 8 days than South Korea over the previous 8 weeks.

     -  The testing procedures continue to be transformed and enhanced.  The emerging new procedure is self-sampling at a testing center without the attending staff having to wear PPE.  This will free  previously dedicated PPE to the nurses and doctors in hospitals.  The new test is less intrusive and does not require inserting a swab far up the nasal passage and turning left under the  nose! 

     -  The testing reveals that well under 10% of tests report positive for COVID-19 infection.  There is one exception and it is significant.  In the three-state NYC area, 28% of the tests are reporting positive. 

     -  Singapore is preparing for a second wave of infection.  Singapore had done such an excellent job of identifying and isolating exposure that "herd immunity" did not develop.

     -  Trump wants the nation back to work by Easter, only 19 days.  When asked, Brix did not state whether this was advisable or not.  Various doctors phoned in questions, and one likened having everyone returning to work is akin to a doctor "discharging" a hospitalized patient.  He suggested there would be much to analyze between now and Easter that may suggest not to discharge the patient. 

      -  IF it happens by Easter, we can call it a "resurrection." 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 24, 2020, 12:34:45 PM
Moby,

I guess I have to agree with FP, you and trench both seem to have a penchant for making any topic about yourselves.

Then how about you tell us how things are on the front line? How is life in Hitler's bunker?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 24, 2020, 12:43:53 PM
http://www.politico.com/interactives/2020/coronavirus-testing-by-state-chart-of-new-cases/

Is being updated live, shows the number of tests in each state and has a slider at the top so you can see how infections grow over time.


Thanks.

I compared it with Florida government site - 100% agreement.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 24, 2020, 12:47:38 PM
+1 Excellent resource, BC.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 24, 2020, 12:49:56 PM
Did you read the article?

Yes, that's why I highlighted 'the news' as being at fault, not the phosphate variant.  Surely there was some warning on the package.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 24, 2020, 12:58:11 PM
Things not looking good for Germany's economy from all of this:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-03-24/german-economy-heads-for-steep-recession-on-coronavirus-impact

Italy's economy is already a goner. If China can see of the final cases of Coronavirus then I reckon they have the strength to bounce back pretty fast.

Here a lot of stuff has closed down after all the orders to close. I'm still gainfully employed for the time being so for once I'm not one of the first in the firing line thank goodness. From LinkedIn posts I get the impression that many companies are taking Coronavirus as an easy way to lay off the least able/productive staff, thereby reducing their staffing costs. Many Millennials seem to be in the firing line (redundancy) of such moves as they tend to comprise of the less essential staff.

I'm doing my bit in helping to keep the UK economy going by spending out on gym equipment, survival gear, stocking up, etc, etc. which in turn will hopefully all aid in keeping people in work and hence the UK economy up a bit longer. I think the main thing economically is that we don't let our nation get beat up economically so bad that we end up in a real bad economic situation.

Many people will be able to gain employment in other sectors of the economy that are growing at the moment, in hand sanitizers, toilet paper, food production, supermarkets, nursing, etc. So part of it is people shifting around and the way companies & society organise themselves in a different manner. Will take a bit of time and some uncomfortable upset for those involved but it will happen over time I think.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 24, 2020, 01:08:05 PM
For the purpose of unbiased reporting, I give this tidbit from the Fox Town Hall for BC, Moby. krimster and others who despise Trump.

Evidently Gov Cuomo and Trump have been cooperating fairly closely about the Feds helping New York.  I missed it but it seems Cuomo may have criticized Trump about something, even though Trump is helping him in other ways. 

Trump always counter punches, so Trump used the Town Hall to read a report from 2016 that Cuomo had an opportunity to purchase thousands of ventilators but purchased instead solar panels and something else of that progressive category.  The reporters ignored him. 

Later in the Town Hall, Dr. Brix mentioned the rapid surge of cases in New York.  Trump asked her, "Do you blame Gov. Cuomo?"  She rightfully ignored him, with the same look of ignoring a two-year old throwing toys out of his playpen.   

Trump has some warts, yet he gives his all to helping America and produces results. 

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 24, 2020, 01:13:27 PM
Then how about you tell us how things are on the front line? How is life in Hitler's bunker?

Hey Trench, much as I abhor BC's new found double stds - he's in Italy  - not Berlin ..

Now, one minute you're in Dorset, then at work .. so back in S.Wales(?) ...so well done for keeping down on the social interaction front !

On day 5 of social isolation with Ma and just rtied to order food online from all of the big boys in groceries ...  ALL booked out solid for 3 weeks to a month

We have enough meat / bread / milk for a week and even toilet roll for a month - ordered 1 x pack of 24 - as per usual when  down to 5 or less


Our local shop will deliver on orders over a tenner - so guess who's going to be getting out biz ?


In the mean time, not sure how delivering Trench gym kit is a vital service .. at such times ?!




Those still golfing in America ....  WHY ?  You're taking a risk ...  Stay at home !




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 24, 2020, 01:45:45 PM
Regarding the resource that BC gave us from Politico, I find the following:

The number of tests given vs. the number of positives for the tests should be an indicator that we're getting ahead of the game.   Were at  six and a half tests for every positive case found.   Now, keep in mind that the testing is only being done on likely candidates.   I find the idea that Politico has to throw in a couple of insults along with this essential data is reprehensible. 

The number of deaths, so far, in the US, is incredibly small.   We're at around 1.6% of deaths compared to those that actually have the virus AND HAVE BEEN TESTED.  This is significant.   

I think that the physical distancing coupled with hand sanitation is having significant success in stopping the spread of the virus.   But I am also beginning to wonder about the virulence.   An effective killing machine will kill itself over time.   That is why viruses are constantly mutating.  Think in terms of a 'half life' for viruses.   My guess is that over the next few weeks the virulence of this virus will track downward.   And I think Trump is already getting those signals from the virologists.   Thus his focus turns back to the economy.

Hopefully this is the case.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 24, 2020, 02:14:10 PM
Regarding the resource that BC gave us from Politico, I find the following:...

It's a bit behind world-o-meter/ It already reported 52.9 confirmed when Politico's still stuck at 49. Otherwise a good site. Damn, NY is getting hammered.

As for the ratio, I still find this dubious at best. Positive/negative doesn't really tell reality because the testing is confined to symptomatic patients. asymptomatic is out there believing they don't have it and are wildly spreading it around and aren't getting 'tested'.

The drive to&from San Diego was pretty uneventful. I have never, ever seen the freeways this wide open. Mach II all the way.

I spoke with my wife on my way up, and she agreed with me. One of our tenants are in the service industry. The gal works as a waitress and is going to school, and he's a bartender. I'm drafting a letter this afternoon and we'll need to get it executed. We'll defer their rent for the next two months starting April regardless of what happens within both months. The other property is fine, I think. The guy renting it have a great job and I think he has more money than me and my wife anyway, so no break for the sucker - hahah!

LA, relatively, is doing OK, but then again, this is based on the test counts. This week is looking to be formidable. I have confidence with my fellow Americans. We'll get through this.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 24, 2020, 02:38:02 PM
haha,

dobre den American swinehund...
eto Radio Moskva!
in 3 to 4 days you Americans will have more reported Corona infections than China...
ac-tual-ly...
you will be the world leader in Corona infections....
and ten days after that, you’ll hit the platinum jackpot of 1 million+ reported infected

finally you are “winning” at something
digging your own graves

and...
you won’t hit the end of the first Corona peak, until after July...
hope you have enough shovels

keep them handy for next year and the year after as well...
and buy more from China

spossiba Trump voters, for EVERYTHING
don’t worry about sanctions!
when we squeeze Europa in a few years with gas and oil
we won’t need anything at all from you
and frankly, we don't expect a whole lot will be left anyway
oh, please say sorry to your banks about our defaults

we’ll see who wins the war that’s coming...
doubt it will be you
see ya, wouldn’t wanna be ya
stoopid Yankees

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 24, 2020, 03:00:36 PM
Also how it is affecting them so far

Honestly hadn't planned on giving up quite this much for Lent.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 24, 2020, 03:18:20 PM

when we squeeze Europa in a few years with gas and oil
we won’t need anything at all from you


Earlier you said it was the end of the world.  Now you say in a few years the West still needs gas and oil. 

Which one is your predicted future,  silly boy old goat?


Quote
 
we’ll see who wins the war that’s coming...
doubt it will be you
see ya, wouldn’t wanna be ya
stoopid Yankees

The Ruskies should worry about their neighbor to the south.  China has 60 million males of military age who have no woman.  The Chinese leaders will arm them, show them photos from Elena's Models and Russian porn,  point them north, and give the order to pillage and plunder. 
 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 24, 2020, 03:47:02 PM
in Corona land,
you must either choose death
or let death choose you
you have no other choice now
only fools think they can ever choose life
from now on

The Plague
is followed by the
Depression
which is followed by
the War
and then it repeats...

when it's finally over... so to is the USA, more or less...
everything you have ever loved Gator, EVERYTHING will BE GONE in 10 years
EVERYTHING....

and it happened, because of the choice that people like you made Gator
that put the worst captain in the universe in charge of the Titanic and let him ram the iceberg at full speed
while announcing to everyone his greatness, applause please, thank you....
and yes, first class passengers, especially his own family and friends, please line up for spots on the dwindling number of lifeboats
that the captain will be soon handing out in the back room...

all of you down in steerage, whose fat asses are gonna be drownin pretty soon....
aw....
sad face  :(.....
for all of you

you have my thoughts AND prayers!!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 24, 2020, 03:52:50 PM
Has the US, albeit unintentional (will leave doubt to the conspiracy folks) kept the numbers artificially low by limited testing?  Untested deaths are not being counted and even many with symptoms at hospitals still going without.


Why do you keep referring to lack of testing makes us blind? What's more important than testing is what is happening in hospitals and America does not need to lockdown our nation like European nations are doing based on activity in hospitals. India only reports 536 infections yet just ordered a 3 week lockdown for a population of 1.3 billion. They can see what is going on in their hospitals without testing to know a lockdown is needed.

It appears the determination has been made that our economy is going to be more important than lives. So the US government is now playing god.


Trump made it clear lives are more important to him and if the economy is shut down, people lose their jobs, businesses bankrupt, and people will get depressed. In other words, suicides will skyrocket and the cure becomes more of a problem than the virus. I remember my grandmother telling me back in the Great Depression, people were routinely committing suicide after losing everything.

At this point, It won't do California much good to lock down if Arizona doesn't, and it won't do Mississippi much good to lock if Louisiana doesn't lock down.   So there will be deaths, and perhaps a lot of them.  They could be prevented, but the US doesn't have the stomach to do it, the US isn't willing to make the sacrifice that other nations are attempting.  The US and the world will pay a consequence in deaths for our decision.  Down the line I won't be surprised if US travelers aren't wanted or quarantined in parts of the world.


What's the sense of America completely locking down if all nations in the world isn't locked down at the same time? Trump has given local and State leaders the right to lock down their areas as they see fit. Trump does not need to lockdown small town USA if big cities are needing a lockdown. Why hurt everybody when  a good portion of America is still healthy? There's no way to win this battle in the first round. All we can do is limit the damage and sacrificing too much of the economy on the first round isn't smart. We need a healthy economy to continue to battle the virus. When you see a nation go bankrupt fighting the virus and ceases to function, you will see anarchy and a massive amount of death. America can last a awhile so pay attention to nations that's already financially and politically on the edge of collapse.

NIH's Tony Fauci was not present.  Fox asked Trump about his absence, and he replied that Tony is busy doing many other things.  When asked about the personal relationship with Fauci, Trump answered the relationship is good.


Tony Fauci, a Dr. and expert, may not be the right leader of infectious diseases at this time we need. Scroll down the website to read Tony on Jan 24 say China is being quite transparent and China's travel restrictions won't have much of an impact on containing the spread. He also said he can't imagine America locking down LA and NY. Tony said "historically when you shut things down it doesn’t have a major effect.” Of course he never experienced something like this and he's probably wrong. It's possible he's still stuck on his beliefs and is disagreeing with politicians pertaining to lockdowns and travel restrictions and if so, he will become irrelevant but the media loves him right now because they imply with Tony gone, Trump disagrees with an "Expert"

http://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-hnk-intl-01-24-20/index.html

I'm very confident we'll have less Corona virus deaths in the UK than the average 17,000 deaths per year from Flu here.

I'm also confident you'll have less Corona virus deaths in the USA than the average 36,000 deaths per year from Flu there.


Flus aren't dangerous, have a vaccine and treatments, so governments won't take action. COVID-19 is much more dangerous with no vaccine or treatment so governments take action. If they didn't take action, we'd lose many more people than the flu. If you were going to be infected by the coronavirus or the flu, which would you prefer? On the plus side, with lock downs and getting people washing hands and keeping their distance more often, there will be less flus this years and less lives lost.

The UK recorded it's first case of coronavirus Jan 31. less than two months later UK is under lockdown and hasn't hit the height of it's curve. After the curb bottoms out, some people will still walk around infected and less than two months later, you'll be under another lockdown. It will be a never ending yo yo effect hopefully less damaging each time it goes up and down. This virus been out only a few months. Let's wait a year and compared deaths and economic damage the virus causes compared to the flu.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 24, 2020, 04:03:40 PM

China loses 21 million mobile phone users. I don't see how 3200 dead Chinese translates to 21 million mobile phone users not renewing their subscriptions.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-23/china-s-mobile-carriers-lose-15-million-users-as-virus-bites
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 24, 2020, 04:06:06 PM
I read this article less than 48 hours ago and The Good Dr has  'gone' ?

 http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2020/03/time-capsule-2-exceptional-dr-fauci/607957/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2020/03/time-capsule-2-exceptional-dr-fauci/607957/)


Yet another expert that dared to contradict 'Trampu' ...

"Anthony Fauci has earned the presumption-of-credibility for his comments. Donald Trump has earned the presumption that he is lying or confused. "

Watching some try to put a spin on this farce is indicative of just how badly the President is handling this crisis .... the "magic BS dust "is still working for some..




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 24, 2020, 04:08:26 PM
>> "When you make decisions using imperfect information, you make imperfect decisions. No matter what we decide, it will have problems,” << Mark Cuban

I agree. I'm alluding to only testing symptomatic patients. Are we not learning anything from Italy?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 24, 2020, 04:34:49 PM
>> "When you make decisions using imperfect information, you make imperfect decisions. No matter what we decide, it will have problems,” << Mark Cuban

I agree. I'm alluding to only testing symptomatic patients. Are we not learning anything from Italy?

No country has enough tests to test every citizen. Even if they did, they can't win the war in the first battle. Everybody needs to finish their curve, regroup and with better preparedness and more test kits available, reduce the deaths in round two. Some nations are already starting round two. Outbreaks between nations will stagger. Probably need to say goodbye to international vacations for the next few years. Airlines are talking about even grounding all domestic flights.

I read this article less than 48 hours ago and The Good Dr has  'gone' ?

 http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2020/03/time-capsule-2-exceptional-dr-fauci/607957/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2020/03/time-capsule-2-exceptional-dr-fauci/607957/)


Yet another expert that dared to contradict 'Trampu' ...

"Anthony Fauci has earned the presumption-of-credibility for his comments. Donald Trump has earned the presumption that he is lying or confused. "

Watching some try to put a spin on this farce is indicative of just how badly the President is handling this crisis .... the "magic BS dust "is still working for some..


You accept the Journalist's opinion as truth. Trump said there's no issue and I found some words from Fauci below. The media needs to stop making up stories that divide the nation. You should stop believing everything you read.

http://americantruthtoday.com/politics/2020/03/24/dr-anthony-fauci-i-wish-media-would-stop-trying-to-pit-me-against-president-trump/?utm_source=sprklst&utm_campaign=republicanpundit-fauci-03_24-mid

Dr. Anthony Fauci: I Wish Media Would Stop Trying to Pit Me Against President Trump

One of the most notable figures during the Trump administration’s handling of the Coronavirus outbreak has been Dr. Anthony Fauci of the Coronavirus Task Force. His tireless work has helped President Donald Trump make the best possible decisions when it comes to the problem at hand and Fauci is loved by both sides of the aisle for it.

From WMAL’s Morning on the Mall with hosts Vince Coglianese and Mary Walter.

The radio show hosts asked Fauci if he’s trying to balance out his advice with the economic situation, and Fauci made it clear that this is not something he’s engaging in. His concern is with the virus, but he noted that Trump has to consider all aspects of this fallout, not just the medical aspects. He did acknowledge that a failing economy causes its own health problems.

“What the President is trying to do is balance the public health issues with the fact this is having an enormous impact on the economy of the country which may actually, indirectly, cause an incredible amount of harm… even health-wise,” explained Fauci.

Eventually, at around the six-minute mark, the hosts directly asked Fauci about the media’s constant attempts to slam Trump for any reason whatsoever, something that Fauci acknowledged and called “unfortunate.”

“It seems like increasingly a bunch of the questions from the media are designed to create a rift between you and the President of the United States, or at least to sort of emphasize differences of opinion in a way that creates distance between you and the president,” said Coglianese. “Are you sensing that as the media continually asks you questions about the differences you have with him.”

“That is really unfortunate. I would wish that that would stop because we have a much bigger problem here than trying to point out differences,” said Fauci. “Really, fundamentally at the core, when you look at things there are not differences.

“The President has listened to what I have said and what the other people on the task force have said. When I’ve made recommendations, he’s taken them. He’s never countered or overridden me,” he continued. “The idea of just pitting one against the other is just not helpful. I wish that would stop and we’d look ahead at the challenge we have. To pull together to get over this thing,” he said.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 24, 2020, 05:03:27 PM
No country has enough tests to test every citizen. Even if they did, they can't win the war in the first battle. Everybody needs to finish their curve, regroup and with better preparedness and more test kits available, reduce the deaths in round two. Some nations are already starting round two. Outbreaks between nations will stagger. Probably need to say goodbye to international vacations for the next few years. Airlines are talking about even grounding all domestic flights.

Yes. In the meantime, the asymptomatics are infecting more people because they, and the people around them, believe they're not infected.

In my mind, people who sneezes around, or people who can be seen sniffling, coughing, etc..are people you avoid. People who doesn't show these 'symptoms' are the bigger danger to anyone than the former. That's just reality.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 24, 2020, 05:38:22 PM
virus rebel, your face is a mess
because I blew it clean off your head
why?
I have mirrors mounted on my sun glasses
and saw what ya did
I gotta do a full bio goop spray now
all over my back and front
amazed you actually had any brains
let alone the amount I now see
WTF?  teenagers?  when will they freakin learn?

why’s everyone in the parking lot lookin at me like that?
“hey, he was a virus rebel that was spitting on boomers, ok?”
“great! thanks!” are the replies I receive...
I don’t know if I’m supposed to call someone now or what?
I’ll ask someone else, maybe they’ll know....
“oh yoo-hoo mister” “can I ask you a question?”

welcome to Trump's America 3 months from now...

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 24, 2020, 05:42:50 PM
>> "When you make decisions using imperfect information, you make imperfect decisions. No matter what we decide, it will have problems,” << Mark Cuban


I never had perfect information when making many critical decisions.  Instead I had a plan, a plan that inevitably had to be changed as 'things' changed.

Obtaining perfect information is time consuming, and meanwhile the world is changing, and the opportunity could be missed.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 24, 2020, 05:53:44 PM
the key to survival in Corona land is social isolation...
there is nothing other than this....

from now on every child born in America
will probably have Corona 3-4 times by the time they are 40...
maybe 1% will die in this age group this way by this age....

10 years from now
there will be hardly any people over age 60
and hardly any people with serious medical issues
left alive...

JUST by this time next year, the GDP will have fallen by over 20 percent
and the rapidly approaching stock market crash will be bigger than the crash of '29
ans unemployment will also be over 20%

the virus death toll in the USA will be in the millions
and the virus will still be raging on...
itself trying to get heavenward to infinity
or die trying



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 24, 2020, 06:23:24 PM
OMG!!!!

this is today!!!
during Easter the Corona virus will just be starting into its first peak...
and King Trumpus wants his followers to all go to church to pray (for him)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm4io75gkDM

then heaven, right?

if this isn't chugging the kool-aid I don't know what is...
when will you people stop following this moron?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 24, 2020, 07:03:41 PM
Hey Trench, much as I abhor BC's new found double stds - he's in Italy  - not Berlin ..

Now, one minute you're in Dorset, then at work .. so back in S.Wales(?) ...so well done for keeping down on the social interaction front !

On day 5 of social isolation with Ma and just tied to order food online from all of the big boys in groceries ...  ALL booked out solid for 3 weeks to a month

We have enough meat / bread / milk for a week and even toilet roll for a month - ordered 1 x pack of 24 - as per usual with own to 3


Our local shop will deliver on orders over a tenner - so guess who's going to be getting out biz ?


In the mean time, not sure how delivering Trench gym kit is a vital service .. at such times ?!




Those still golfing in America ....  WHY ?  You're taking a risk ...  Stay at home !

Mobe, we're supposed to be self isolating not self imprisoning lol.

Gym goers ordering in gym equipment will make it easier to self isolate at home for longer periods. It will also keep up resistance to the virus. Not least to mention aiding the economy to avoid it becoming an economic wasteland.

My trips to South Wales and Dorset I drive alone in my car. In Wales I live alone at my place spending the time converting it to rent out to lodgers. Only about 3 months if work left now. I do this work myself so all in all very low people contact time. Whenever I get in supplies I don't linger too much and I usually wear gloves. So I'm pretty sure it's way below the average in terms of exposure of risk to others.

The ones I feel sorry for are supermarket workers, no getting away from expose there as things presently stand. I doubt their remuneration has improved either to take account of the vastly increased risk either.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 24, 2020, 07:15:10 PM
Why do you keep referring to lack of testing makes us blind? What's more important than testing is what is happening in hospitals and America does not need to lockdown our nation like European nations are doing based on activity in hospitals. India only reports 536 infections yet just ordered a 3 week lockdown for a population of 1.3 billion. They can see what is going on in their hospitals without testing to know a lockdown is needed.

Again, argumentum ad ignorantiam

India reported 100 deaths, a minuscule number in a nation of 1.3 Billion that would hardly be noticed in hospitals without testing.  Just because US hospitals are not yet overflowing with tough choices to be made does not mean it will not come down to that.  Time will tell.

The only known way to slow and stop a virus is to isolate and give it enough time to run out of hosts it needs in order to replicate.  I can look at the map of Italy and see the north/south divide and effects of isolation.

Lombardia (Milan area) has roughly 10 million inhabitants with a total of 30,000 cases detected so far.  That is 3000 cases per million.

Lazio (Rome area) has roughly 6 million inhabitants with a total of 1728 cases so far. That is 288 per million, less than one-tenth the rate in Milan..

Why the difference?  There should be 9000 cases in Rome, and there would be without the lockdown.

Over 4,000 have died in Milan.  80 in Rome.

Campania, Naples area also has a population of around 6 million and is little over one hour drive away from Rome. both these regions are neighbors. Normal traffic between these two cities is intense, to say the least.  Naples total, 1101 cases and 56 dead.

So a population of 12 million, just ripe for the pickin' for this virus.  But it ain't happening and hopefully will stay contained

These are the three most densely populated areas in Italy, two of them are major domestic and international airport hubs. Almost 11,000 active cases are in home quarantine, identified with testing. Even a few of these run amok can cause havoc.  If one wants to visit friends, infects someone that dies they can be charged with murder.

Without the national lockdown, it would likely be much, much worse.  Italy was slow to catch on initially, trying localized isolation.  It did not work.  Watching folks die in hospitals doesn't work either.

Want to just sit back and watch the ER and morgue trucks?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 24, 2020, 07:18:19 PM
Yes. In the meantime, the asymptomatics are infecting more people because they, and the people around them, believe they're not infected.

In my mind, people who sneezes around, or people who can be seen sniffling, coughing, etc..are people you avoid. People who doesn't show these 'symptoms' are the bigger danger to anyone than the former. That's just reality.

Indeed.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 24, 2020, 07:53:50 PM


Trump made it clear lives are more important to him and if the economy is shut down, people lose their jobs, businesses bankrupt, and people will get depressed. In other words, suicides will skyrocket and the cure becomes more of a problem than the virus. I remember my grandmother telling me back in the Great Depression, people were routinely committing suicide after losing everything.
Several posters here have talked about how 'exceptional' we in the US are so a few weeks under lockdown shouldn't cause mass suicides. 




What's the sense of America completely locking down if all nations in the world isn't locked down at the same time?
I was wondering if anybody would make that point, which is a decent one.  I think if were to have locked down, other nations would have followed suit.   America may back more severe measures if the virus starts killing like it has been in italy.  Trump if anything seems to be undermining taking the cautious approach.  I saw more cars on the road today than yesterday.  Still not near normal but I think the trend is going the other way now.  What it will bring, we are soon going to find out I guess. 

Fathertime! 

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on March 24, 2020, 07:55:32 PM
I never had perfect information when making many critical decisions.  Instead I had a plan, a plan that inevitably had to be changed as 'things' changed.

Obtaining perfect information is time consuming, and meanwhile the world is changing, and the opportunity could be missed.

These situations are constantly with us and call for the Bayesian Approach.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/bayesian-approach
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 24, 2020, 08:03:33 PM
Mobe's three week wait for his groceries shows how one sector of the economy needs to change and adapt to present circumstances. Going forward Supermarkets will need more delivery drivers and will have to organise how they go about picking the stock for a much larger volume of customers. Quite possibly this model of consumer behaviour may stay dominant even after this virus crises has past. Think of the time saved buzzing around Supermarkets. If a greater consumer base shop like this then economies of scale could make delivery costs much cheaper. In some cases delivery could be free just a business cost absorbed into the prices overall.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 24, 2020, 08:35:00 PM
Joe Biden on the View today... "We've got to take care of the cure because that will make the problem worse no matter what...no matter what"...blink blink blink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWfHsKOCf9M
He practically nominated Mario Cuomo for president.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 24, 2020, 08:51:11 PM
the asymptomatics are infecting more people because they, and the people around them, believe they're not infected.


That is one of the most dangerous characteristics of this virus since it doesn't affect some people. But just because it doesn't affect them now doesn't mean it won't affect them next time they get it. The CDC says we get 2-3 colds a year as an adult and may average 12 colds a year as a child. A 50 yo person may have gone through 150 colds in his/her lifetime. I don't feel I had nearly that many colds in my life so this new coronavirus behaves like the coronaviruses that give us the common cold where sometimes we feel it and most of the time we don't.

I think if were to have locked down, other nations would have followed suit.   


Not just nations have to agree, but 7.8 billion people have to agree at the same time to self isolate to prevent infecting others. Some people think this is a hoax and won't take it seriously. Some people think it's no dangerous than the flu. Some people are thrilled with population and civilization in decline and cheer the virus on. Some people simply don't follow the law and rules. Russia may enjoy watching geopolitical enemies take a much bigger hit than they and see no interest in removing the virus off the face of the earth yet until they see an America that is too busy with the virus and too weak to come to the defense of its friends. It's going to be impossible to get 100% participation in a unified effort worldwide to defeat the virus. We may be in this for the long haul.

Without the national lockdown, it would likely be much, much worse.  Italy was slow to catch on initially, trying localized isolation.  It did not work.  Watching folks die in hospitals doesn't work either.

Want to just sit back and watch the ER and morgue trucks?

The USA does not need a national lockdown. Even if we had one, it's not going to stop the virus. We need lockdowns in certain areas, that's it. Destroying jobs, businesses, and the economy is only wise if this virus can be defeated right away. Since it can't be defeated right away, we need to plan for a long term fight and it's going to cost money so we need the economy to continue to provide the funds for the fight.

Italy's fault was underestimating the virus. NY will be America's Italy because they failed to take earlier action when the evidence was right there in January. I'm not an expert in virology or epidemics but with knowing there isn't vaccines for coronaviruses, studying the behavior of this new virus and knowing China lies about what goes on in their country and lies about the numbers, I could tell this virus could change how humanity behaves forever and made those statements on this forum before Italy went under lockdown. If I can figure it out, why didn't the smart people in Italy and other nations figure it out?. Surely Italy, NY and every other government entity in the world have health departments that can warn their leaders so they can prepare with supplies and actions that will reduce the curve. We had a front row seat watching the shit show in China. Are we that naïve to believe the virus won't be going on a world tour to provide every nation a shit show? Did you actually believe at one time China had the virus under control and it won't be coming to your shores to do to Italy what it done to China?

Many leaders in the world failed and many experts in the medical field failed to understand how dangerous the virus was and warn their leaders. Trump was one of the first leaders in the world to take action against the spread of the virus in America yet people call him racist and incompetent. Go figure. Trump even knew how bad Europe had the virus before Europe knew how bad it was there. Trump banned travel from Europe and Europe protested the decision. They really didn't know they had a problem although Trump did. Although many leaders in the world learned the hard way, they learned. Future outbreaks shouldn't be as damaging.

While NY will become America's Italy, King County, WA will become America's South Korea. We were once the most infected area in America but things have calmed down a lot. South Korea started their curve the same time as Italy. Some say South Korea knew how to beat the virus but truth is they were lucky because a huge chunk of their infections came from a church group. King County was lucky because a huge chunk of our infections came from an old folks home so government could quickly round up the whole group and separate them from the population.

Everyday I watch a group of European nations that equals total population of America and see they have much more infections and deaths. Trump did better than the leaders of those nations. Bragging rights are sought after when comparing which Western government and health care system is the best but people should focus on China. China is costing the world big time.

Keep in mind, when Italy is finished with this outbreak, they will have to deal with other outbreaks every two months as the curve goes up and down. The first outbreak is brutal. Don't destroy your economy over this first battle. Lives will be lost. Can't save everybody. Save some strength for the fights coming up. This war may last years and still we may not win it.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on March 24, 2020, 10:59:17 PM
General Motors has joined the effort. They will be making coffins.
Yes sir, you can be buried in a new Cadillac......box by Fisher.
Also making morgue equipment.....would you like a 2 drawer or a 4 drawer?


I am going to try to live long enough for the box with tailfins to become available.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 25, 2020, 01:45:45 AM
Mobe's three week wait for his groceries shows how one sector of the economy needs to change and adapt to present circumstances. Going forward Supermarkets will need more delivery drivers and will have to organise how they go about picking the stock for a much larger volume of customers. Quite possibly this model of consumer behaviour may stay dominant even after this virus crises has past. Think of the time saved buzzing around Supermarkets. If a greater consumer base shop like this then economies of scale could make delivery costs much cheaper. In some cases delivery could be free just a business cost absorbed into the prices overall.

Pin those ears back , Trench !

I said I couldn't order produce online ( from the big boys), at all .. as the limit was three weeks ahead and all booked ( click and collect and home delivery)


Went down to the village shop at 07:00 and they will deliver - costs sl more but delivery in 48 hours

Losing the village shop / Post Office WOULD be bad ... hope they keep healthy



This morning, Thailand closed the beaches ...  If Sveta had to stay there ..and she's not escaped YET .. ( the taxi to the airport is is due in an hour ! ) that WOULD be a crisis ;)

To those thinking only US cities should be closed ... you ain't getting it ( still )


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 25, 2020, 02:13:47 AM

The USA does not need a national lockdown. Even if we had one, it's not going to stop the virus. We need lockdowns in certain areas, that's it. Destroying jobs, businesses, and the economy is only wise if this virus can be defeated right away. Since it can't be defeated right away, we need to plan for a long term fight and it's going to cost money so we need the economy to continue to provide the funds for the fight.

Cuomo is right, those that have had the virus need to be identified and can go back to work, but right now the fires have to be put out.  Too much tinder abounds.  Just like a fire one has to confine and let it burn itself out.  Unlike a contained fire, this virus can jump long distances unseen.  There are fires in every state along with every major and medium-sized city.

Quote
Italy's fault was underestimating the virus.


Every nation on the planet has underestimated the virus.

Quote
NY will be America's Italy because they failed to take earlier action when the evidence was right there in January.


No, NY will become Italy's Lombardia. Unlike Lombardia, no one is preventing anyone from getting in or out of NY.

Quote
While NY will become America's Italy, King County, WA will become America's South Korea.

Good comparison with King County and Korea.  KS and WA both tested extensively, isolated the infected and quickly moved on.  Unlike Korea, King County is not restricting and checking who goes in and out.

Quote
Everyday I watch a group of European nations that equals total population of America and see they have much more infections and deaths. Trump did better than the leaders of those nations. Bragging rights are sought after when comparing which Western government and health care system is the best but people should focus on China. China is costing the world big time.


As discussed with Gator, there are plenty of reasons why the infection rate is slower in the US.  See those posts. As for 'bragging rights' check back in a month or so.

Quote
Keep in mind, when Italy is finished with this outbreak, they will have to deal with other outbreaks every two months as the curve goes up and down. The first outbreak is brutal. Don't destroy your economy over this first battle. Lives will be lost. Can't save everybody. Save some strength for the fights coming up. This war may last years and still we may not win it.

Italy as many other EU nations will stay locked down for a good while after cases peak out and even die out.  Folks may even be tested and segregated by their infection status and given their red, yellow and green cards like is done in China.  Until a vaccine is available, restrictions of some kind will still stay in place.  We will find a new 'normal' whatever that may be, but the fires have to be contained for now with physical barriers in place to keep reinfection to a minimum.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on March 25, 2020, 05:38:49 AM
Pin those ears back , Trench !

I said I couldn't order produce online ( from the big boys), at all .. as the limit was three weeks ahead and all booked ( click and collect and home delivery)


Went down to the village shop at 07:00 and they will deliver - costs sl more but delivery in 48 hours

Losing the village shop / Post Office WOULD be bad ... hope they keep healthy



This morning, Thailand closed the beaches ...  If Sveta had to stay there ..and she's not escaped YET .. ( the taxi to the airport is is due in an hour ! ) that WOULD be a crisis ;)

To those thinking only US cities should be closed ... you ain't getting it ( still )

Thailand even closed the beaches? Probably pretty hard to enforce beach closures, except for the main beaches in resort areas like Pattaya, Koh Samui and Phuket. Personally, I cant believe anyone would swim at the main resort areas with all the raw sewage Thailand pumps into them. The only people I see going swimming at those beaches are Russians.
  Phi Phi Island is somewhat isolated with nice hotels and a good beach. I would guess hotel security looks the other way when people go to the beach. Otherwise, everyone would just leave
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 25, 2020, 05:48:26 AM
SC escaped Pattaya to the airport at Bangkok and is checking in to fly to Moscow ... The beaches were closed this am - so that really IS 'serious' - if she'd had to stay

The seats are marked with green ticks and red crosses as one waits for a flight and while we chatted a passenger with a suitcase walked past in FULL Haz gear !

As soon as check-in opened the Russians scrambled into a queue and 'social distancing' went out the window .. :dh:   Couldn't bear to watch the stupidity in action and asked her to call me AFTER she clears security / passport control


(http://i.imgur.com/XjGEsD5.jpg)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 25, 2020, 06:02:05 AM
Thailand even closed the beaches? Probably pretty hard to enforce beach closures, except for the main beaches in resort areas like Pattaya, Koh Samui and Phuket. Personally, I cant believe anyone would swim at the main resort areas with all the raw sewage Thailand pumps into them. The only people I see going swimming at those beaches are Russians.

SC was 5 miles north of the main drag and I've also swum in the sea, there ...   For sure - the first time she swims in the sea there, each time she arrives, her eyes go puffy for a few days ... !


  Phi Phi Island is somewhat isolated with nice hotels and a good beach. I would guess hotel security looks the other way when people go to the beach. Otherwise, everyone would just leave

Don't know if it's a local ordinance, but a state of emergency kicks in at midnight ..

Update: They closed the borders to foreigners save those with residency / work permits as SC boarded

 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 25, 2020, 07:46:16 AM
Testing (US): So far we are averaging 50,000/Day. By early next week they’re estimating double that number. Yet, once the 45-min test kits AND the self-swabbing test kits finally get widely distributed, we could finally get much better at mitigating the virus. The viral-musical infection chair will (should) be eliminated.

Vaccine: Inovio Pharmaceutical, San Diego-based laboratory, announced they are accelerating clinical trials of the vaccine they’re able to create against COVID-19 after only 3 hours of plotting its genetic sequence. They’re the same company that found the MERS vaccine.

Since this virus doesn’t easily mutate, and if the vaccine Inovio is trying to advance is widely distributed, then COVID-19 will not become ‘seasonal’. For lack of a better term…once you’re vaccinated with this, it is highly unlikely you’ll be infected by this virus.

I believe (speculating here folks), the fact it doesn’t easily mutate is because of what I read about the virus. This strain of coronavirus, apparently, is what is medically termed as “chimera’ (not to be defined in Greek term – no such things as ‘dragons’), which just means that it is a fusion of at least two different viruses. Not hydrid, which is a product of two or more, but a bond of two or more viruses.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 25, 2020, 07:52:15 AM
Quote from: Mark Cuban
"When you make decisions using imperfect information, you make imperfect decisions. No matter what we decide, it will have problems,”

I never had perfect information when making many critical decisions.  Instead I had a plan, a plan that inevitably had to be changed as 'things' changed.

Obtaining perfect information is time consuming, and meanwhile the world is changing, and the opportunity could be missed.

These situations are constantly with us and call for the Bayesian Approach.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/bayesian-approach

Quite. My mechanic calls this, band-aid fix. Treating the symptoms rather than cure the cause.

But I understand. Not knowing the cause, we’re left with progressions of treatment, and until information becomes ‘perfect’ – thereby the cure; all we really have so far are imperfect decisions.

Case in point, we looked at what appears to be a massive (potential of) mass wasting occurring close to our current project yesterday. Archived information doesn’t denote any known landslide plane. Bedding planes are fairly consistent and have inclination on a counter angulation. It would be easy to assume it is caused by rain, but characteristics of mass wasting is different than that of seismic or moisture-driven geologic slippages e.g. landslides. We basically surveyed the general area to gather as much information as we can. The soils engineer will do further geologic investigation. Maybe even perform seismic lines to find ‘some’ energy break underneath. In the meantime, we decided to proceed and mitigate further wasting and slippages until ‘perfect’ information is established. We are resigned to carry on with this *imperfect decision* to prevent further damage in the near surrounding infrastructure.

In some ways, akin to the battle we face against this pandemic.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 25, 2020, 07:55:51 AM
Several posters here have talked about how 'exceptional' we in the US are so a few weeks under lockdown shouldn't cause mass suicides. 

Fathertime!

*WE*?!? I wasn't aware you included yourself to the distinction already?  Or are you just being presumptuous? Wishful thinking, perhaps?

Respectfully,
From a known exceptional and resilient Patriot.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 25, 2020, 08:00:22 AM
MORE GOOD NEWS

For those interested in the fatality rate of COVID-19, you can read Krimster's posts or you can refer to the latest from the best minds in the medical field. 

Here is an example of the latter in the Wall Street Journal:

Is the Coronavirus as Deadly as They Say?
Current estimates about the Covid-19 fatality rate may be too high by orders of magnitude.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/is-the-coronavirus-as-deadly-as-they-say-11585088464

It is opinion piece written by two professors of medicine at Stanford, suggesting a mortality rate possibly as low as 0.01%.   

As with any new information, it needs to be tempered by the opinions of medical professionals broadly accepted as prominent authorities (e. g., Dr. Tony Fauci).  One such credible professional is Dr. Scott Gottlieb.  Gottlief is former FDA commissioner, and referred to by Politico as "the shadow coronavirus czar..... from Twitter to TV, he’s become the face of truth-telling about the coronavirus pandemic."

http://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/15/shadow-coronavirus-czar-scott-gottlieb-129563

Dr. Gottlieb is interviewed frequently and broadly, and for those of you not aware of him, I suggest you read what he has to say.  He has been on CNBC almost daily.   

Today in an CNBC interview, Gottlieb reacted to the Stanford analysis of mortality rate, saying the rate could be less than the 0.5 - 1.0% range for situations with a)  well functioning healthcare systems and b) the surge of patients has not exceeded the system capacity. 

The latter does not apply to New York City, whose hospitals are already nearing capacity, yet the peak  infection case count is 2-3 weeks away, and hospitalization cases will peak in another 2-3 weeks after that.       
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 25, 2020, 08:16:27 AM
The mortality rate is probably tiny.. in circumstances where the health services can cope ... THAT is the rub... in hot spots ...they can't and people who could normally expect treatment don't get it


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 25, 2020, 08:21:34 AM
Every nation on the planet has underestimated the virus.
 

Every nation is guilty for trusting China and WHO. WHO is supposed to get to the bottom of every infectious disease and put out warnings and recommendations but they failed because China wouldn't let them in China to study the virus so WHO simply trusted China. From the article below "China confirmed human-to-human transmission on Jan. 20. The WHO said on Jan. 12 there was no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission." No wonder WHO was recommending travel to and from China was safe and notice China announce human to human transmission was possible right before their quarantining of 60 million people which soon led to lock downs of 760 million people soon after? China knew since December or earlier this virus was moving among it's people but lied to the world. We will all pay for it.

Also read below that the UN's WHO ignored Taiwan which is not considered a nation. Taiwan was probably the first nation to call BS on China and the WHO and enacted travel restrictions.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/taiwan-says-who-ignored-its-coronavirus-questions-at-start-of-outbreak/ar-BB11CNet?ocid=spartanntp

Vaccine: Inovio Pharmaceutical, San Diego-based laboratory, announced they are accelerating clinical trials of the vaccine they’re able to create against COVID-19 after only 3 hours of plotting its genetic sequence. They’re the same company that found the MERS vaccine.


On this forum and another, there's articles linked almost everyday of a possible cure. We are going to be bombarded with stories to give us hope. I searched for old articles when SARS and MERS came out during the search for cures and treatments which were never found. Sometimes a medicine actually works for 5% of the people but not for most from the studies I read. So when a lab says their medicine kills the virus for the sample group they used compared to the sample group that didn't take it, it sounds promising when in reality it worked for only a few people and not for the rest. The lab trying to make a sales pitch pertaining to it's invention will most like have their product rejected by FDA, CDC, and WHO. It's like the debate on Vitamin C. Vitamin C probably won't work on everybody, especially if the person's immune system is already at 100% but it will work on some people who's immune system is less than 100%. The authorities need to fine a cure or treatment that will work for all people, not just a few percent.

Vaccine: Inovio Pharmaceutical, ….. They’re the same company that found the MERS vaccine.


There's no such thing as a MERS vaccine or treatment. If you read that in their paid advertisement disguised as an article written by a journalist with no stake in the company, they are lying.

http://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/middle-east-respiratory-syndrome-coronavirus-(mers-cov)

http://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/mers/about/prevention.html

Since this virus doesn’t easily mutate,


This virus has been around only a few months. Questing anybody who says it doesn't mutate easily because it's too early to make that claim.


It is opinion piece written by two professors of medicine at Stanford, suggesting a mortality rate possibly as low as 0.01%.   


WOW!!!! Those experts say the virus is ten times less deadly than the flu. We can let this virus run loose like we do with flu viruses and carry on like nothing is happening.  Gator, a lot of what you are reading is put out there to save lives. Panic will kill more than the virus. The truth will come out in the end but the experts who calculated the truth have told governments this virus is worst than anything they've ever seen. Keep in mind, MERS had a case fatality rate of 34% but nations aren't afraid of MERS like they are with this one.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 25, 2020, 08:44:14 AM
Silly BillyB

It's about time to had a lie down with an expert re your 'pronouncements'  from the efficacy of surgical masks to the potential of this virus to be our worst nightmare 

Really, your posts are going to look VERY silly in a week or two


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 25, 2020, 08:48:43 AM
On this forum and another, there's articles linked almost everyday of a possible cure. We are going to be bombarded with stories to give us hope. I searched for old articles when SARS and MERS came out during the search for cures and treatments which were never found. Sometimes a medicine actually works for 5% of the people but not for most from the studies I read. So when a lab says their medicine kills the virus for the sample group they used compared to the sample group that didn't take it, it sounds promising when in reality it worked for only a few people and not for the rest. The lab trying to make a sales pitch pertaining to it's invention will most like have their product rejected by FDA, CDC, and WHO. It's like the debate on Vitamin C. Vitamin C probably won't work on everybody, especially if the person's immune system is already at 100% but it will work on some people who's immune system is less than 100%. The authorities need to fine a cure or treatment that will work for all people, not just a few percent.

LMAO. There's the Vit. C again.

Read: CLINICAL TRIALS.

INO-4800 by Inovio Pharmaceuticals and Beijing Advaccine Biotechnology

Inovio Pharmaceuticals has collaborated with Beijing Advaccine Biotechnology Company to advance the development of the former’s vaccine, INO-4800, as a novel coronavirus vaccine. The company has started pre-clinical testing for clinical product manufacturing.

The vaccine development is supported by a $9m grant from the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI).

Inovio announced an accelerated timeline for the development of the vaccine on 03 March. Preclinical trials are ongoing and the design for human clinical trials have been completed. The company has also prepared 3,000 doses for human clinical trials planned to be conducted across the US, China, and South Korea.  Plans for large-scale manufacturing have also been developed.

Human clinical trials in 30 healthy volunteers are expected to commence in April 2020 in the US, followed by China, and South Korea. A phase one clinical trial is planned to be conducted in parallel in China, by Beijing Advaccine. Results from the clinical trials are expected to be available in September 2020.
Inovio aims to produce one million doses of the vaccine by the end of 2020 to perform additional clinical trials or emergency use.

::::they should've consulted with our BillyB first:::::

Quote
There's no such thing as a MERS vaccine or treatment. If you read that in their paid advertisement disguised as an article written by a journalist with no stake in the company, they are lying.

Inovio Pharma’s INO-4700

The investigational DNA immunotherapy, INO-4700 (GLS-5300) is being developed by Inovio in partnership with GeneOne Life Science. It is delivered as vaccine intramuscularly, using the Cellectra® delivery device.

The company has received a $5m grant from the Bill and Mellinda Gates foundation to accelerate the development of the Cellectra® delivery device.

The vaccine was well-tolerated and demonstrated high immune responses against the MERS-CoV in 94% of patients in the early-stage clinical trial in July 2019. It also generated broad-based T cell responses in 88% of the subjects.

BillyB, here's the contact page for Inovio Pharmaceutical. Will you please enlighten them with your links please. http://www.inovio.com/contact.

I didn't realize Bill Gates can be this stupid, you know. He should've consulted you first. I'm sure you can easily Google his contact information. Let him know he's wasting his money...

Quote
This virus has been around only a few months. Questing anybody who says it doesn't mutate easily because it's too early to make that claim.

:ROFL:

Why question 'them' when we have an expert like you on the board, right? LMAO.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/low-coronavirus-mutations-mean-hope-for-a-single-vaccine.html

Dunno dude, Between a) BillyB of RWD, a Googling construction worker from Seattle, WA, b) Iowa's virologist Spencer Perlman, or maybe even c) Peter Thielman, John Hopkins molecular geneticist; I don't believe it'll be that tough for me to choose who to subscribe to.

Would you agree? You need a vacation, BillyB.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 25, 2020, 09:02:13 AM

WOW!!!! Those experts say the virus is ten times less deadly than the flu. We can let this virus run loose like we do with flu viruses and carry on like nothing is happening. 

Not what I wrote nor what the Stanford Professors wrote.  The number is higher, but not as high as the panicked proclaim. 

Quote
Panic will kill more than the virus.

From suicides, etc.?  Panic cause mistakes, overreactions, less than optimal distribution of limited resources.  The expression "squeaky wheel gets the grease" can be interpreted when the grease supply is constrained that the other wheels lock up. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 25, 2020, 09:19:06 AM
Really, your posts are going to look VERY silly in a week or two


I checked the posts I made last month and they don't look silly today. Promise me you will remind me of your words in two weeks by quoting the above.

The company has received a $5m grant from the Bill and Mellinda Gates foundation to accelerate the development of the Cellectra® delivery device.

I didn't realize Bill Gates can be this stupid, you know. He should've consulted you first. I'm sure you can easily Google his contact information. Let him know he's wasting his money...


Gate's foundation donates money to fight every epidemic. Sometimes a cure is found, sometimes not and containment was the solution. In the search for a cure, lots of money is wasted but it's not stupid throwing away money. We need to try to find a cure but success is not guaranteed. Based on history of trying to create a vaccine and treatments for coronaviruses, including for a weak common cold, nothing has ever been found. Those clinical trials you refer to with great numbers is what the labs advertise. Big money and fame is involved. WHO and CDC have not agreed with those labs assessments on SARS and MERS and still say at their websites a vaccine and treatment have never been found after all these years but they continue to give people hope saying they are working on a solution. Don't be surprised 10 years from now WHO and CDC say at their websites they are still looking for a solution to COVID-19. It's possible WHO and the CDC will accept defeat and may approve something that only works for a small percentage of people but don't expect something to be invented for all people. If it gives you hope that something will be found, believe what you need to believe to give you peace of mind.

If you want an idea of the magnitude of the problem, look at what is going on. First our government proposed 2 billion dollars to fight the virus, then 8 billion, then 50 billion and now 2 trillion. This all happened in a very short time. 2 trillion is what they feel is needed to fight this first outbreak in America but a lot more is needed to solve the rest of the world's fight against the virus. If this virus is allowed to infect every person on earth once, we will lose more people than we did in WWII. Just think if it's allowed to infected us multiple times over our lifetimes. If there is one time in our lives to jump on Noah's Ark, this is it. Unfortunately there is no Noah's Ark(vaccine).

Not what I wrote nor what the Stanford Professors wrote.  The number is higher, but not as high as the panicked proclaim. 


If what you wrote it true, that the Stanford professors say the mortality rate can be as low as .01%, they are saying it can be ten times less  deadlier than the flu which as a mortality rate of .1%. It is a good article to put out there to reduce panic though. You will see many more of them every week because if repeated enough, it becomes true.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 25, 2020, 09:26:47 AM
Gate's foundation donates money to fight every epidemic. Sometimes a cure is found, sometimes not and containment was the solution. In the search for a cure, lots of money is wasted but it's not stupid throwing away money. We need to try to find a cure but success is not guaranteed. Based on history of trying to create a vaccine and treatments for coronaviruses, including for a weak common cold, nothing has ever been found. Those clinical trials you refer to with great numbers is what the labs advertise. Big money and fame is involved. WHO and CDC have not agreed with those labs assessments on SARS and MERS and still say at their websites a vaccine and treatment have never been found after all these years but they continue to give people hope saying they are working on a solution. Don't be surprised 10 years from now WHO and CDC say at their websites they are still looking for a solution to COVID-19. It's possible WHO and the CDC will accept defeat and may approve something that only works for a small percentage of people but don't expect something to be invented for all people. If it gives you hope that something will be found, believe what you need to believe to give you peace of mind.

If you want an idea of the magnitude of the problem, look at what is going on. First our government proposed 2 billion dollars to fight the virus, then 8 billion, then 50 billion and now 2 trillion. This all happened in a very short time. 2 trillion is what they feel is needed to fight this first outbreak in America but a lot more is needed to solve the rest of the world's fight against the virus. If this virus is allowed to infect every person on earth once, we will lose more people than we did in WWII. Just think if it's allowed to infected us multiple times over our lifetimes. If there is one time in our lives to jump on Noah's Ark, this is it. Unfortunately there is no Noah's Ark(vaccine).


This post bore no RELEVANCE to the CLAIMS and DECLARATION you made above.


Here, I found the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation contact page: http://www.gatesfoundation.org/who-we-are/general-information/contact-us (http://www.gatesfoundation.org/who-we-are/general-information/contact-us)

Knock yourself out.


edit: Billy. not busting your apples, man. None of us are epidemiologist, virologist, Dr. Fauci's offspring, or even on Dr. Birx's lustful wish list...thus, none of us are 'experts' to this current event. We're here to converse and share info, is all... Don't let that fact gets lost..

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 25, 2020, 09:36:08 AM

Respectfully,
From a known exceptional and resilient Patriot.

Most of us already understand Samuel Johnson and his referring to    

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." ..

I prefer this test of his:

"A patriot is necessarily and invariably a lover of the people. But even this mark may sometimes deceive us.......The people is a very heterogeneous and confused mass of the wealthy and the poor, the wise and the foolish, the good and the bad. Before we confer on a man, who caresses the people, the title of patriot, we must examine to what part of the people he directs his notice."



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 25, 2020, 09:41:50 AM
Gee...I thought it was Mel Gibson.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 25, 2020, 09:46:40 AM
This post bore no RELEVANCE to the CLAIMS and DECLARATION you made above.


Just Google for past efforts. MERS came out in 2012 and 5 years later the 2017 article below shows Some governments and the Gates Foundation donating hundreds of million of dollars to find a vaccine for MERS and other viruses. Of course they failed on MERS and SARS but they may have been successful against viruses that's related to flus.

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2017/01/new-460-million-effort-takes-aim-mers-lassa-nipah

No matter how powerful Google is, there isn't a claim Google can find from a legitimate source that a vaccine or treatment was invented for SARS and MERS which are also dangerous coronaviruses. You will find many labs tout success but none of their products were ever approved. I wish I could find a legitimate source that says a vaccine for a coronavirus, any coronavirus have been found. There is none. Have hope a vaccine will be found but prepare your life as if a vaccine will never be found.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 25, 2020, 10:05:22 AM
many white men speak with forked tongue
it is wise to not listen to what your ears tell you about what they said...

the truth is not in words
for an animal knows truth, yet knows not a single word...

the truth comes to the brain straight from your eye
‘tis not by accident your occulus is called an Iris
IRIS was the goddess of the rainbow and the messenger of the Olympian gods

your eyes on the inside
can see more than the ones on the outside
some of us more than others

since most of them big werdz is hard for all you silly-assed rednecks to grasp
let the truth come to you instead through your eyes
and just see the truth
and not listen to ANY words that represent the truth

here is the visual evidence, ladies and gentleman of the Jury, that will establish the defendant’s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt

because if you silly-assed rednecks just look at the little picture
you will verify what I have been tellin ya’ll here for weeks....

1. the USA has the highest virus growth rate of any country on earth!!!   we’re #1
2. because of #1, in a couple of more days, we are also going to have the highest number of infected people in the world. again #1

1. highest virus growth rate
3. highest total number of infected

7 weeks ago, we had a total of 5 confirmed cases from travelers...
anyone starting to grasp the situation yet
or are you still trying to cling to the very last shred of denial?

Gator,
death rate will be proportional to quality of medical care and number of cases and when you have to implement triage on over 60 and "medically challenged"
currently in the USA, it is at 1.5% but I expect it to go up when ventilators and ICU beds will be gone and then when triage is implemented...
in addition by summer's end, we will lose 10% of our medical personnel to the virus....
some by suicide

and you are in year zero of "After Corona", just a couple of months in...
if you were comparing the effect of the Corona virus on human destiny over the next decade
to climbing Mount Everest
we just took the second step today....

now do you understand?


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 25, 2020, 10:57:57 AM
Ummn I can't believe some of the rubbish these nurses & doctors accept wearing. If it was me I would have popped down to my local Screwfix or Toolstation DIY/Trade chain and bought myself a proper mask. Those paper masks are crap, even the slightly better ones with the breathing piece. Pretty much everyone who has upgraded themselves to the proper rubber masks agree they are so much better. I have one and breathing through them is so much easier, virtually natural, very little co2 build up. It must be murder having those cheap paper masks on all day when for around £20 they could have bought themselves a nice comfortable and safer rubber one that seals all the way around & has proper straps to hold them in/on.

I kind of get the impression that a lot of people are conditioned in this country into thinking they have to wear the rubbish PPE their employer gets them. It's nearly always cheap poor quality rubbish as they don't want to spend the money. For a long time now I've put the sense of 'the Employer should provide PPE' which of course by law they should and just got some decent stuff anywhere so long as the cost wasn't exhorbitant/prohibitive. No way would I be seen dead working their job with the measly crap most governments seem to give them.

In WWII this country produced loads of gas masks for the population of London and probably the military has loads. Yet our government can't seem to provide the same for these nurses & doctors. One video I saw of them gowning up involved a plastic visor, a paper mask, a plastic apron type of thing and nitrile gloves. Sending them in, in that gear I reckon the government aren't too concerned about losing some of them.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 25, 2020, 11:37:58 AM
rubbish?
I used to dream of wearing rubbish during the plague...
aye lad,
when I was young, I used to have spend all day in the plague pit to find one tiny scrap of cloth
and I'd have to cut that up and share it equally with all the other survivors that were left...
back then, I would dream of finding a used diaper or something more substantial
but no such luck, fortune did not smile upon me with much favor
lucky then just to get a few scraps at a time
aye, they was hard times back then, they was...
before ye go me brother, can ye spare a bit...
ahh bless ye kind sir (doffs hat)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 25, 2020, 11:47:04 AM
Trench,

A\ decent 3m ABC mask with filters will run you around 50 bucks.  Long term use will cause chafing etc.  Give it a try and wear yours for a week 10-12 hours a day.  It gets tiring very quickly to wear one and communicating is muffled.  Can't have a bunch of medical folks asking 'waat?' when trying to save someone.

The reason disposable masks are used is that they should be changed for every patient.  The mask would have to be sanitized and filters changed (20 bucks) as the filters cannot be sanitized.

A mask costs 50 cents.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 25, 2020, 12:00:23 PM
Here are CDC approved masks based off manufacture and level of protection. Please don't hoard the masks but buy one just to go out shopping for food if you feel you need one. Do not buy Chinese no name brand masks since their advertised level of protection may not be true.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/disp_part/default.html
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 25, 2020, 12:04:44 PM
For the fourth day in a row the trend of new cases in Italy continues to decrease.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 25, 2020, 12:23:08 PM
For the fourth day in a row the trend of new cases in Italy continues to decrease.

Unfortunately, the number of active infections in the US has now exceeded those in Italy.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 25, 2020, 12:29:54 PM
Not surprising really..much larger population...but it will plateau there too before too long.

The big surprise is how Russia has hardly been touched in comparison.

Maybe drinking Vodka makes the virus ineffective.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 25, 2020, 12:46:58 PM
Not really.  Russia started all the measures the WHO recommends (testing, identifing cases, tracing contacts, social isolation and quarantine) very early.  It closed its border with China.  It tested those at airports arriving  from Asia and Iran It threatened Chinese nationals who did not self quarantine with deportation.  Initially, all those infected were isolated in hospital.  Moscow is now allowing those with mild cases to be treated at home. 

It is possible that Russia is manipulating statistics.  It's done so in the past.  Finally, Russian epidemiologists have stated that the infection curve hasn't hit yet.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 25, 2020, 01:02:26 PM

It is hoped that the number of new infections will not increase which would indicate that we may have peaked.  It is not known how long that peak will last as the numbers are stable but not really dropped off in any large numbers. The drop is only averaging only around 150 fewer cases per day which considering normal variance, essentially flat over the last week. 3500 new cases per day are still considerable. We've been in lockdown 18 days.  As new cases are still high numbers, hopefully, they will start tapering off sometime next week and continue falling over the next 20 days or so after that...  That will be +-2 months in strict lockdown nationwide, somewhat replicating the course in China.  A long way still to go with a death toll that will still rise as the majority of intensive care cases remain so for 3 weeks.

The north/south divide also seems to be holding with no new 'hotspots' appearing away from the most affected area.  I would not have expected to see the divide hold without strict containment.

In any case, an encouraging sign for the moment that will help the hospitals in Lombardy to stabilize and allow more doctors from other areas to be posted where needed most and not kept in reserve in case their area explodes.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 25, 2020, 01:06:00 PM
What I was getting at a few weeks ago about the virus not just deadly to the elderly and/or those with underlying health conditions, but what the media wasn't getting through from the cases in Italy for a quite a while:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-52041709
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 25, 2020, 01:12:32 PM
Didn't realise how bad Coronavirus is in NYC, it's shockingly badly out of control. 25 thousand people currently have it. Think on the radio they said it went up by 5000 today in just one day!

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-52012048

Apparently the sombre news is that the morgues are near capacity there.

Glad I don't live in NYC.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 25, 2020, 01:28:58 PM
The big surprise is how Russia has hardly been touched in comparison.


Russia acted early but they have undetected infections walking around. They will have an outbreak but it will be similar to Taiwan's or South Korea's instead of Western Europe's. Although Russia may manipulate their numbers, I really believe they won't have as big of a problem as Western nations. They closed their land border to China Jan 30.

Didn't realise how bad Coronavirus is in NYC, it's shockingly badly out of control. 25 thousand people currently have it. Think on the radio they said it went up by 5000 today in just one day!

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-52012048

Apparently the sombre news is that the morgues are near capacity there.

Glad I don't live in NYC.

NYC will be America's Italy. They failed to take early steps to prevent a big outbreak. King County WA on the other hand will have an outbreak that won't be big because we took early steps to be prepared. We bought hotels before we even needed them. Over a month ago Trump gave States the power to take matters into their own hands. NY failed to act early and will pay dearly but NY doesn't represent all America which pretty much did a good job flattening the curve. All nations will experience more outbreaks that will disrupt our lives and economies. Hopefully we learned from this first one on what not to do.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 25, 2020, 01:35:32 PM

NYC will be America's Italy.


No, NY will become Italy's Lombardia. Unlike Lombardia, no one is preventing anyone from getting in or out of NY.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 25, 2020, 01:52:12 PM
Big drop in the deaths from the virus in the UK today...41

We had project fear here with Brexit ,then climate change and now Corona virus.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 25, 2020, 02:04:19 PM

BC, NY may end up with similar numbers to Italy. If Lombardia is much worse off than the rest of Italy, then NY won't get that bad. At this time there is no need for the military to surround any American city or State.

I read thousands of Chinese from Wuhan came to work in Northern Italy this year. Political correctness and Hug a Chinese initiative proposed on Feb 1 helped magnify the problems. This Hug a Chinese was proposed the day after Trump's racist travel restrictions on Chinese Jan 31. Did you Hug a Chinese ?

http://kprcradio.iheart.com/featured/the-pursuit-of-happiness/content/2020-03-20-on-february-1st-florence-italy-celebrated-hug-a-chinese-day/

http://www.theblaze.com/news/italy_political_correctness_china_coronavirus
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 25, 2020, 02:11:33 PM
It is not known how long that peak will last as the numbers are stable but not really dropped off in any large numbers. The drop is only averaging only around 150 fewer cases per day which considering normal variance, essentially flat over the last week.

Your Italy graph resembles graphs from historic epidemics.  Do not worry about not dropping off "in any large numbers."  Historic epidemic graphs typically follow an inverted "U," not a "V."   I hope your  trend continues.

Italy's progress is important to observe because flights of infected China travelers to Italy occurred perhaps three weeks before infected European travelers started flying to and thru NYC.

What data do you have on hospitalizations?  Maybe hospitalizations is inapplicable if hospital capacity to receive new patients is constrained, even exceeded.

I ask so as to understand the NYC hospital capacity predicament.   The peak for number of infections in NYC is predicted to occur in 2-3 weeks.  And the peak for hospitalizations would be 2-3 weeks after the peak number of infections.   This has a way to go, and the bounce seen in the stock market over the past two days is likely not the start of a trend upwards. 


Quote
We've been in lockdown 18 days.


The mitigation measures in the US would not qualify as lockdown.  As I mentioned before, NYC Mayor de Blasio defended holding his staff meeting at a sweaty fitness gym, and 6 days later was in panic mode. 

Also, our lockdown lite has been less than 18 days in duration   Assuming Italy is a model, we will be hit harder than Italy other than for differences such as age demographics.

Quote
That will be +-2 months in strict lockdown nationwide, somewhat replicating the course in China. 

Long time.  What is Italy's level of concern about the Italian economy?   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 25, 2020, 02:21:28 PM

NYC will be America's Italy. They failed to take early steps to prevent a big outbreak. King County WA on the other hand will have an outbreak that won't be big because we took early steps to be prepared. We bought hotels before we even needed them. Over a month ago Trump gave States the power to take matters into their own hands. NY failed to act early and will pay dearly but NY doesn't represent all America which pretty much did a good job flattening the curve. All nations will experience more outbreaks that will disrupt our lives and economies. Hopefully we learned from this first one on what not to do.

It's a pity NYC didn't keep control of the situation like the rest of America. In just that one city they are worse of than the whole of the UK. I kind of got the impression the UK generally started of slightly ahead of the US in terms of cases, considering in proportion to land mass. In the UK at present they are approx 8200 cases. The main worrying statistic is the number of deaths to recovery is at least twice as much, or approx two thirds dying at present for serious cases. Early days but hopefully they'll start to get it all under control as if that death rate keeps up it will be a pretty dire outlook:

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 25, 2020, 02:35:03 PM
*WE*?!? I wasn't aware you included yourself to the distinction already?  Or are you just being presumptuous? Wishful thinking, perhaps?

Respectfully,
From a known exceptional and resilient Patriot.
Damn right I'm not 'exceptional', but you are free to believe you are since that is what makes you feel good.    All that said, the we was referring to all of us.  We are no more exceptional than other countries people who are taking on much more sacrifice than we have. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 25, 2020, 02:37:23 PM
I wondered how much public transportation have to do with NY and NJ's higher case count than California and  Washington. I think Dr. Deborah Birx mentioned that subways may in fact be instrumental in the virus transmission people-people in New York.

Interesting too the US already have 60K with 900 deaths, while the UK at +/- 10K already have half the death count comparatively. Smoking perhaps?

Holy SMOKES! Cigarette smoked so far today alone is almost at 10 billion!!!! 

Global births so far today at 239,000, global deaths at 100,400...Despite the viral assault, I think humanity will be ok for a while.

http://www.worldometers.info/ How the heck do they get this data?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 25, 2020, 02:38:04 PM
Big drop in the deaths from the virus in the UK today...41

We had project fear here with Brexit ,then climate change and now Corona virus.


It's not really project fear.  Don't you believe that the curve has been flattened with measures to isolate and keep distances?

The purpose of flattening the curve is so that hospitals are not overwhelmed by cases, thereby having to choose who lives and who dies, as allegedly occurred in Italy. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 25, 2020, 02:38:23 PM
Damn right I'm not 'exceptional', but you are free to believe you are since that is what makes you feel good.

Thanks..

Quote
All that said, the we was referring to all of us.  We are no more exceptional than other countries people who are taking on much more sacrifice than we have. 

Fathertime!

No. Just you. :devil:
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 25, 2020, 02:50:45 PM

because if you silly-assed rednecks just look at the little picture
you will verify what I have been tellin ya’ll here for weeks....

Thanks krimster, your semi-log graph is informative, and a good one for understanding the world situation.  I like the fact that the time abscissa starts the day of the  first 100 cases. 

 :applause:

Now for some elaboration and small correction.     

Quote
1. the USA has the highest virus growth rate of any country on earth!!!   we’re #1

The slope of the graph indicates infection growth rate.  For the first 10-15 days the slope for the US was similar to other nations.   Then it continued at the the same rate while most other nations displayed a smaller rate.   Italy, Spain and China had a less steep slope than the US, yet the difference is insignificant. 

Quote
or are you still trying to cling to the very last shred of denial?

Yes, I am in denial of your wild-ass projections, yet I agree with your direction.  You did not mention it, yet what is significant about your chart is that the slope of the growth rate is still positive for all nations.  You can add that fact to your long list of reasons to bend under and kiss your ass goodbye.   

Quote
Gator,
death rate will be proportional to quality of medical care and number of cases and when you have to implement triage on over 60 and "medically challenged"
currently in the USA, it is at 1.5% but I expect it to go up when ventilators and ICU beds will be gone and then when triage is implemented...

I mentioned that exceeding healthcare capacity constraints would cause a higher fatality rate. 


Quote
in addition by summer's end, we will lose 10% of our medical personnel to the virus....


Not 10%, yet I expect their infection rate to be larger than than the national mean. 

Quote
and you are in year zero of "After Corona", just a couple of months in...
if you were comparing the effect of the Corona virus on human destiny over the next decade
to climbing Mount Everest
we just took the second step today....

now do you understand?

I understand "herd immunity."   More important,  I believe in a COVID-19 Jonas Salk.  Compared to the 1950s we have 103X more research scientists and our technology could be 106X  better.  Together, that's 109X better research resources.  Fund the research!     
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 25, 2020, 03:00:22 PM
RUSSIA

From today's Moscow Times

Russia is facing a “serious situation” as the coronavirus spreads, Moscow’s mayor told President Vladimir Putin, adding that "the real number of those who are sick is much greater" than official numbers indicate.

The article includes a graph showing an accelerated uptick in number of cases.  I did not post the graph because its inclusion blows through the margins of these pages.   

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/03/25/coronavirus-in-russia-the-latest-news-march-25-a69117
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 25, 2020, 03:07:00 PM
ASDA Supermarket Superstores reducing their hours still further from 10pm to 8pm close. Could be due to the lockdown but more likely due to shortages of stock. Went into one yesterday and people seemed to be clearing what little left remained of any of the good stuff, just the stuff that wasn't that good left that very few want.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 25, 2020, 03:08:36 PM
I wondered how much public transportation have to do with NY and NJ's higher case count than California and  Washington. I think Dr. Deborah Birx mentioned that subways may in fact be instrumental in the virus transmission people-people in New York.


NY city and State health department experts know that infectious diseases get transferred from person to person easily in high density populated areas and easily among those using public transportation. They learned that in school many years ago. They also should've been watching the news since January pertaining to what is going on in the world. NY State is the hardest hit State in America right now and probably will have done the worst job in preparing for this outbreak costing lives and more of their economy. Democrats like governor Cuomo's performance so much they think he should be president. Go figure.

Originally my State was the hardest hit but my government, all Democrats, actually did a good job in preparing before an outbreak showed up and they educated the public to wash hands and keep distance from each other. My government was disinfecting public transportation vehicles daily starting 3 weeks ago. NY took their kids out of school barely a week before their outbreak and only did so under pressure from the teachers union threatening to quit. It's pretty bad that the public knows better than the government on when to take action against the spread of the virus.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 25, 2020, 03:10:55 PM
RUSSIA

From today's Moscow Times

Russia is facing a “serious situation” as the coronavirus spreads, Moscow’s mayor told President Vladimir Putin, adding that "the real number of those who are sick is much greater" than official numbers indicate.

The article includes a graph showing an accelerated uptick in number of cases.  I did not post the graph because its inclusion blows through the margins of these pages.   

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/03/25/coronavirus-in-russia-the-latest-news-march-25-a69117

Putin is in the photo with a yellow hazmat suit on.

Trump is speaking live right now! Dr. Tony Fauci is there too.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 25, 2020, 03:24:00 PM
NY city and State health department experts know that infectious diseases get transferred from person to person easily in high density populated areas and easily among those using public transportation. They learned that in school many years ago. They also should've been watching the news since January pertaining to what is going on in the world. NY State is the hardest hit State in America right now and probably will have done the worst job in preparing for this outbreak costing lives and more of their economy. Democrats like governor Cuomo's performance so much they think he should be president. Go figure.

Yeah, the news is mixed based on Gov. Cuomo. The rate of hospitalization apparently dropped. Mewonders if this have anything to do with the administration of Hydroxychloroquine/Azithtromycin. But in the same token, active cases is rising especially with the police force which he reported that 3,000 ? tested positive.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 25, 2020, 03:33:31 PM
Your Italy graph resembles graphs from historic epidemics.  Do not worry about not dropping off "in any large numbers."  Historic epidemic graphs typically follow an inverted "U," not a "V."   I hope your  trend continues.

An inverted U that is noticeably flat could be an indicator of the effectiveness of containment, but that's just a guess at the moment.  Will take statisticians to figure out how effective.  Luckily, a good amount of additional information will be available for them, maybe even tracking patient data as date hospitalized, when symptoms noted, when released, outcome etc.

Quote
Italy's progress is important to observe because flights of infected China travelers to Italy occurred perhaps three weeks before infected European travelers started flying to and thru NYC.

As far as what I recall reported, the first 'hotspot' outside of Milan was from a few individuals with further spread via hospital staff to other patients etc.  Believe down south in Rome may have been somewhat similar but more limited.

Quote
What data do you have on hospitalizations?  Maybe hospitalizations is inapplicable if hospital capacity to receive new patients is constrained, even exceeded.

Daily data is available here: http://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19/tree/master/schede-riepilogative/regioni   Just click on the link at the left for each day and you get the graphic listing.  Attached today's listing with titles translated.  This is the raw data used for the graphic front end at http://opendatadpc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/b0c68bce2cce478eaac82fe38d4138b1   I did not go so far as to crunch numbers in excel or such.  If someone wants the raw .csv data it's available somwhere here http://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19

Quote
I ask so as to understand the NYC hospital capacity predicament.   The peak for number of infections in NYC is predicted to occur in 2-3 weeks.  And the peak for hospitalizations would be 2-3 weeks after the peak number of infections.   This has a way to go, and the bounce seen in the stock market over the past two days is likely not the start of a trend upwards. 

Honestly I thought the large number of respirators Cuomo was requesting a bit odd, but defer to his experts.  Considering the very steep slope of infections it may not be that far off.  Just off the top of my head figure something like 10% hospitalized, and around 10-15% of those hospitalized in intensive care.

Over the years (even here) the number of available hospital beds etc is driven by normal demand and don't have much headroom for large scale crisis.

I think the stock market will drop again when the situation on the ground degrades and as the virus expands.

Quote
The mitigation measures in the US would not qualify as lockdown.  As I mentioned before, NYC Mayor de Blasio defended holding his staff meeting at a sweaty fitness gym, and 6 days later was in panic mode. 

It is scary.. how scary is only felt as reality creeps up on you.

Quote
Also, our lockdown lite has been less than 18 days in duration   Assuming Italy is a model, we will be hit harder than Italy other than for differences such as age demographics.

18 days is for the national lockdown that went in place 7 March IIRC.  Localized lockdowns in Lombardy I think started a week to 10 days earlier than that.  As mentioned before, localized lockdown didn't work out well at all, thus my fears for the US.  Also as mentioned in past posts the US may have some advantages, but think those factors only slowed the progress of the virus, but not stopping it.  It does not look good.  I was amazed today looking at the number of coast to coast flights still leaving and arriving at JFK  Talking tens of thousands of passengers going all over the US.  There are still flights here but vastly reduced and all travellers have to have a verifiably urgent excuse to get on a plane.  With fines in the 3-4,000 dollar range, nothing to sniff at and folks are getting caught.  The military are assisting police to catch folks not observing the lockdown.

Quote
Long time.  What is Italy's level of concern about the Italian economy?

Of course very concerned, but cash will be given out, renters and homeowners pretty much protected and of course all have healthcare and a halfway decent social support system.  I do believe folks realize the more instructions are followed, the faster we can dig ourselves out and get back to living. By now folks have settled into the 'new normal'.  The small signs of recent progress encourage folks to realize that it is working and there is light at the end of the tunnel.  I do feel the general sense of cooperation and calm and don't expect riots and such.  As unruly as the Italian mentality is, i.e. driving and parking, am quite surprised the lockdown is working so well, even patiently standing in line at the stores. OTOH it is quite scary Milan is not that far away...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 25, 2020, 03:33:56 PM
There are a couple of Forum Ninnies that should just skip over the next
article. I have no desire to cause anyone's brain to explode or cause a
death from exasperation.

For the America haters and Trump haters just skip over my post it will
help you keep snug in your opinion that you are better and more special
than the others here.

JUST SKIP THIS POST

You've been warned

Don't read this article!! !! !!


US was more prepared for pandemic than any other country, Johns Hopkins study found
The United States was ranked the best-prepared country in the world to handle
a pandemic in late 2019 by the Nuclear Threat Initiative (NTI) and the Johns
Hopkins Center for Health Security (JHCHS) -- an assessment seemingly at
odds with claims by Democrats that the Trump administration left the
country vulnerable to the ongoing coronavirus outbreak.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-was-most-prepared-country-in-the-world-for-pandemics-johns-hopkins-study-found-in-2019


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 25, 2020, 04:14:02 PM
During today's press conference Trump was asked why he signed a bill where 35 million dollars went to a performing arts center. He said the Democrats wanted it and he had to give them something. He also said he likes performing arts and they are hurting due to the virus and it was a good to put some money there.

He said our nation has done more coronavirus testing than any other nation by far with the most accurate test kits. If true, there are nations that are using test kits that can give incorrect results. Also it may mean America's test kits aren't 100% accurate since the claim wasn't made. VP Pence later announced 432,000 tests were performed. 5 days ago America only had 104,000 tests done according to the website below. We did more testing in a few days than South Korea did in weeks.

http://ourworldindata.org/covid-testing

Trump says there will be a conference call among the leaders of 20 counties tomorrow. Sounds like they are going to plan for a unified fight against the virus.

A reporter asked Trump how many lives lost will be acceptable. Trump responded with "None."

Dr. Fauci said they are paying attention to the Southern Hemisphere for outbreaks as they head into colder seasons. He also said it's inevitable we will see things flare up again.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 25, 2020, 04:24:26 PM
ASDA Supermarket Superstores reducing their hours still further from 10pm to 8pm close. Could be due to the lockdown but more likely due to shortages of stock. Went into one yesterday and people seemed to be clearing what little left remained of any of the good stuff, just the stuff that wasn't that good left that very few want.

Supermarkets implemented that here as well.  Most are open 8 to 8 or 9 to 8.  There are a few stated reasons.  One is to give workers a chance to rest.  The other is to give more time to restock shelves. Even Costco and Walmart have implemented these hours.  Most malls are closed.  In Ontario and Québec, all businesses but for "essential services" have been forced to close.  "Essential services" are grocery stores, restaurants (as some disabled people don't cook), and liquor stores(!) :o

I think the hoarding is down to people overestimating what they need. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on March 25, 2020, 04:27:22 PM
Supermarkets implemented that here as well.  Most are open 8 to 8 or 9 to 8.  There are a few stated reasons.  One is to give workers a chance to rest.  The other is to give more time to restock shelves. Even Costco and Walmart have implemented these hours.  Most malls are closed.  In Ontario and Québec, all businesses but for "essential services" have been forced to close.  "Essential services" are grocery stores, restaurants (as some disabled people don't cook), and liquor stores(!) :o

I think the hoarding is down to people overestimating what they need. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.


In the US they are doing this also. Another reason for the overnight closing is to do a deep cleaning of the stores...


HDL
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 25, 2020, 04:35:10 PM
bunker madness
a slow descent into a bottomless hell
with death by a thousand cuts...

I know now what Hitler’s last week in the Führer bunker beneath the Reichstag was like...
all the Nazis were constantly arguing with each other over every single little thing
and it was freakin’ driving Hitler totally crazy!

he would retreat into his own room and listen to Beethoven or Mozart...
but it did not ease his mood...

not even looking at Eva’s pale skin as she sat naked across from him in a silk covered chair
could comfort him...

Hitler was a desperate caged beast, raging against his own captivity

as I sit alone to escape the bickering tribe I am in
I am reflecting on the TV sitcom from the 1960s called “I Dream of Jeannie”

IMHO, Season 1, Episode 1 is totally HOT!!!
I mean you have a 31 year old blond beauty Barbara Eden cast as a magic Jin who pops up out of a magic lantern...

the show creates a HUGE sexual tension between the stunning Jin and the dorky American astronaut named Major Nelson who finds her...

she freakin’ calls him “MASTER”!!! and just adores him and showers him with her affection...
and even full-on kisses him on the lips, and wants to FREAKIN’ MARRY HIM!!!
and he’s like all, “wait-a-second-here” “”can we slow down a little”
well, when I see that, I’m thinking to myself WTF, are you serious....
I would have peeled that little Genie costume off her so damned fast
but if I did that, it would’ve blown the whole show!!!
because the whole show was about continuing the sexual tension between them...

I’m pretty sure that guys who watch the show, are supposed to fantasize sexually about the show, by putting themselves in Major Nelson’s shoes, but they will 100% in their fantasy of the show have Jeanie give them sex...

maybe all TV shows have this hidden fantasy appeal to its intended audience
I never watched TV before really, until now, but I'm guessing that's how "it's supposed to work"
but I may be wrong...
and a cigar
might really be just a cigar after all


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 25, 2020, 04:41:24 PM
I think the hoarding is down to people overestimating what they need. 

I agree +80%

Every week on garbage day our neighbors garbage cans are overfilled
with whatever they consume each week. Apparently lots of packaged
stuff and takeout. (I haven't really looked) but in our home garbage
cans are all nearly empty (20% full or less except for the yard/green
stuff bin). We have a ton of weeds so we aren't composting our yard
clippings until we get them under control. It was 94F (34C) today we cut
our yard EVERY week to ten days.

I also think that a lot of people eat 3-5 meals per week or more in
restaurants or fast food places OR prepackaged/premade stuff. With
all the restaurant closures people have to cook for themselves. In my
house we eat 99% of our meals in the home or prepared from home.
Our grocery consumption is the same as it was before the outbreak.

With lines to get in the stores people are shopping once per week instead
of every 3-4 days. It took us 2 1/2 hours to get through the food store on
our last shopping trip. In our family we go 10-14 days between trips to the
food store. We learned that in the zoo that was the oil boom in North Dakota.

We shop during the weekday, with a shopping list. If we see an item we want
that isn't on the list then we have a confab to agree to add it to the cart. I saw
a 17 lb turkey in the frozen bin and Angel eyes agreed.

I think that there is some hoarding, but there are also a bunch of people
trying to figure out how to feed themselves at home. I will be surprised
if house fires don't increase during the outbreak (cooking accidents).


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 25, 2020, 04:42:54 PM
Czech Republic hygienist reports their Chinese test kits have an error rate of up to 80%

http://www.irozhlas.cz/zpravy-domov/ostrava-rychlotesty-koronavirus_2003231414_sot

Is it possible nations are quarantining people who are not infected in with those who are infected and releasing infected people back into the population due to faulty tests? Me thinks we have a long way to go to find the perfect test kit.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 25, 2020, 04:48:55 PM
Looking forward, what happens if/when we all get into a China situation of just the odd few cases left. I'm guessing we will have to keep the lockdown on until all those cases are eradicated, contacts traced and all sound out or are taken in for quarentining and then a wait period of probably a bit over a couple of weeks to be sure. That would suggest a lockdown that will drag on a little at the end.

Then there is the question of flights in & out and re-infection. If this thing is tackled in a few months then odds are most of the population would not have had it and so many potential people it could infect. No doubt thermal imaging & other measures would have to be used in airports, but the risk could still be very much there particularly if people are using transfer flights, then we could risk the whole ball rolling again. What are members thoughts here on an exit strategy out of all of this? I'm doubtful a time period of a few more months for the above to take place that a suitable medicine could be found and distributed to solve this problem.

In the UK here I think the economic damage will start to mount up now that we are in a mild lockdown but with many being out of work due to being in the wrong job in this crises.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 25, 2020, 05:31:55 PM
shopping attire in the late Trump Period of Woodlands, Texas

thick clear vinyl knee length rain coat
full face respirator, with home made virus filter
rubber gloves
rubber boots
suspenders to attach two 12 inch sushi knives with sheaths
two signs, one on my front, one on my back
that says....

“STAY THE F%CK AWAY FROM ME ASSH%LES”
"I am really, really strict about social distancing"

have already drawn my blades once...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on March 25, 2020, 05:40:04 PM
shopping attire in the late Trump Period of Woodlands, Texas

thick clear vinyl knee length rain coat
full face respirator, with home made virus filter
rubber gloves
rubber boots
suspenders to attach two sushi knives with sheaths
two signs, one on my front, one on my back
that says....

“STAY THE F%CK AWAY FROM ME ASSH%LES”
"I am really, really strict about social distancing"

have already drawn my blades once...


Here you go Krimmy...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/25/coronavirus-patients-do-not-resucitate/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/25/coronavirus-patients-do-not-resucitate/)

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 25, 2020, 05:57:15 PM
nah, resurrection has no appeal fer me at all
I mean when I’m done with something, I’m REALLY done with it...

your world was really just a product of your own delusion
a fog that will soon blow away leaving only its ghost

like Jonestown, the Trump Cult was a suicide cult
and its Kool-Aid time folks...
stay working for America’s children and drink-up America...

y’all have no freakin idea how pleased Putin is with himself right now!
he is insufferable!!
it’s useless for anyone to try and get him to change his mind about anything now!

PS
I am serious, you rednecks have NO IDEA how vulnerable you and your family are with your flammable roof that's super easy for someone to set ablaze while you sleep
if the gangs are coming to your neighborhood, it's suicide if you stay in your house and try to fight them...
you have to fight them outside away from your family and house...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 25, 2020, 06:34:19 PM
There are a couple of Forum Ninnies that should just skip over the next
article.

US was more prepared for pandemic than any other country, Johns Hopkins study found

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-was-most-prepared-country-in-the-world-for-pandemics-johns-hopkins-study-found-in-2019
 (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-was-most-prepared-country-in-the-world-for-pandemics-johns-hopkins-study-found-in-2019)



 :deadhorse:

OMG..

Beel,

Doe this worthless bit of e-ink make YOU feel better ? .. REALLY ..?

You'd be better of waiting until a few months after this is all over...

THEN we'll judge the reality of  your  'patriotic drum beating ' ..

Compared to S.Korea and Singapore ... our respective nations .. ( Ireland. UK / US ) have not been stellar in tracking and tracing and therefore controlling the spread.

When the chips came down - it looks like ( despite having more time to prepare) our respective govts  / experts failed us ...in comparison





Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 25, 2020, 06:35:03 PM
Why Did Hundreds Of CEOs Resign Just Before The World Started Going Absolutely Crazy?
March 24, 2020 by Michael Snyder


In the months prior to the most ferocious stock market crash in history and the eruption of the biggest public health crisis of our generation, we witnessed the biggest exodus of corporate CEOs that we have ever seen.  And as you will see below, corporate insiders also sold off billions of dollars worth of shares in their own companies just before the stock market imploded.  In life, timing can be everything, and sometimes people simply get lucky.  But it does seem odd that so many among the corporate elite would be so exceedingly “lucky” all at the same time.  In this article I am not claiming to know the motivations of any of these individuals, but I am pointing out certain patterns that I believe are worth investigating.


One financial publication is using the phrase “the great CEO exodus” (http://fortune.com/2020/02/26/the-great-ceo-exodus-of-2020/) to describe the phenomenon that we have been witnessing.  It all started last year when chief executives started resigning in numbers unlike anything that we have ever seen before.  The following was published by NBC News last November (http://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/why-have-more-1-000-ceos-left-their-post-past-n1076201)…Chief executives are leaving in record numbers this year, with more than 1,332 stepping aside in the period from January through the end of October, according to new data released on Wednesday. While it’s not unusual to see CEOs fleeing in the middle of a recession, it is noteworthy to see such a rash of executive exits amid robust corporate earnings and record stock market highs.

Last month, 172 chief executives left their jobs, according to executive placement firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas. It’s the highest monthly number on record, and the year-to-date total outpaces even the wave of executive exits during the financial crisis.
By the end of the year, an all-time record high


1,480 CEOs (http://www.ccn.com/ceos-quitting-in-record-numbers-could-signal-total-stock-market-collapse/) had left their posts.
But to most people it seemed like the good times were still rolling at the end of 2019.  Corporate profits were rising and the stock market was setting record high after record high.


Yes, there were lots of signs that the global economy was really slowing down, but most experts were not forecasting an imminent recession.

So why did so many chief executives suddenly decide that it was time to move on?
The following are just a few of the big name CEOs that chose to step down in 2019 (http://www.businessinsider.com/biggest-ceo-departures-wework-juul-ebay-warner-bros-metlife-2019-10#1-wework-adam-neumann-37)…
Dennis Muilenburg — Boeing
United Airlines — Oscar Munoz
Alphabet — Larry Page
Gap — Art Peck
McDonald’s — Steve Easterbrook
Wells Fargo — Tim Sloan
Under Armour — Kevin Plank
PG&E — Geisha Williams
Kraft Heinz — Bernardo Hees
HP — Dion Weisler
Bed, Bath & Beyond — Steven Temares
Warner Bros. — Kevin Tsujihara
Best Buy — Hubert Joly
New York Post — Jesse Angelo
Colgate-Palmolive — Ian Cook
MetLife — Steven Kandarian
eBay — Devin Wenig
Nike — Mark Parker

Of course the mass exodus of chief executives did not end there.
In fact, a whopping 219 CEOs (http://www.ccn.com/ceos-quitting-in-record-numbers-could-signal-total-stock-market-collapse/) stepped down during the month of January 2020 alone.
<ins><ins></ins></ins></ins>By then, it was starting to become clear that the coronavirus that was ripping through China could potentially become a major global pandemic, and I certainly can understand why many among the corporate elite would choose to abandon ship at that moment.
Some of these CEOs have made absolutely absurd salaries for many years, and it is much easier to take the money and run than it is to stick around and steer a major corporation through the most difficult global crisis that any of us have ever experienced.

The following are just a few of the well known CEOs that have resigned so far in 2020 (http://www.businessinsider.com/bob-iger-keith-block-ceos-that-stepped-down-in-2020)…

Bob Iger, CEO of Disney
Ginni Rometty, CEO of IBM
Harley-Davidson CEO Matt Levatich
T-Mobile’s CEO John Legere
LinkedIn CEO Jeff Weiner
Mastercard CEO Ajay Banga
Keith Block, co-CEO of Salesforce
Tidjane Thiam, CEO of Credit Suisse
Hulu CEO Randy Freer

It is important for me to say that I do not have any special insight into the personal motivations of any of these individuals, and every situation is different.
But I do think that it is quite strange that we have seen such an unprecedented corporate exodus at such a critical moment in our history.
Meanwhile, top corporate executives were dumping billions of dollars worth of shares in their own companies just before the market completely cratered.  The following comes from the Wall Street Journal (http://www.wsj.com/articles/bezos-other-corporate-executives-sold-shares-just-in-time-11585042204)…

Top executives at U.S.-traded companies sold a total of roughly $9.2 billion in shares of their own companies between the start of February and the end of last week, a Wall Street Journal analysis shows.

The selling saved the executives—including many in the financial industry—potential losses totaling $1.9 billion, according to the analysis, as the S&P 500 stock index plunged about 30% from its peak on Feb. 19 through the close of trading March 20.
In the stock market, you only make money if you get out in time, and many among the corporate elite seem to have impeccable timing.
Perhaps they just got really lucky.  Or perhaps they were reading my articles and understood that COVID-19 was going to cause the global economy to shut down.  In any event, things worked out really well for those that were able to dump their stocks before it was too late.
And it turns out that several members of Congress
were also selling stocks (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/dianne-feinstein-3-senate-colleagues-sold-off-stocks-before-coronavirus-crash-reports) just before the market went nuts…Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California and three of her Senate colleagues reported selling off stocks worth millions of dollars in the days before the coronavirus outbreak crashed the market, according to reports.

The data is listed on a U.S. Senate website containing financial disclosures from Senate members.
Of course most ordinary Americans were not so “lucky”, and the financial losses for the country as a whole have been absolutely staggering.

The good news is that there was a tremendous rally on Wall Street on Tuesday, and that will provide some temporary relief for investors.


But the number of confirmed coronavirus cases continues to escalate at an exponential rate all over the globe, and this crisis appears to be a long way from over.


About the Author: I am a voice crying out for change in a society that generally seems content to stay asleep. My name is Michael Snyder and I am the publisher of
The Economic Collapse Blog (http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/), End Of The American Dream (http://endoftheamericandream.com/) and The Most Important News (http://themostimportantnews.com/), and the articles that I publish on those sites are republished on dozens of other prominent websites all over the globe. I have written four books that are available on Amazon.com (http://amzn.to/2Br7dm0) including The Beginning Of The End (http://amzn.to/2WAovFI), Get Prepared Now (http://amzn.to/2HS2mzf), and Living A Life That Really Matters (http://amzn.to/2FzGaGw). (#CommissionsEarned) By purchasing those books you help to support my work. I always freely and happily allow others to republish my articles on their own websites, but due to government regulations I need those that republish my articles to include this “About the Author” section with each article. In order to comply with those government regulations, I need to tell you that the controversial opinions in this article are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the views of the websites where my work is republished. The material contained in this article is for general information purposes only, and readers should consult licensed professionals before making any legal, business, financial or health decisions. Those responding to this article by making comments are solely responsible for their viewpoints, and those viewpoints do not necessarily represent the viewpoints of Michael Snyder or the operators of the websites where my work is republished. I encourage you to follow me on social media on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/michael.snyder.5076) and Twitter (http://twitter.com/Revelation1217), and any way that you can share these articles with others is a great help.  During these very challenging times, people will need hope more than ever before, and it is our goal to share the gospel of Jesus Christ (http://themostimportantnews.com/important-thing) with all many people as we possibly can.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 25, 2020, 06:35:40 PM

Daily data is available here: http://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19/tree/master/schede-riepilogative/regioni   Just click on the link at the left for each day and you get the graphic listing.  Attached today's listing with titles translated.  This is the raw data used for the graphic front end at http://opendatadpc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/b0c68bce2cce478eaac82fe38d4138b1   I did not go so far as to crunch numbers in excel or such.  If someone wants the raw .csv data it's available somwhere here http://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19


I opened a couple of days, and to analyze trends will require much time.  I easily interpreted the green for recovery and red for death.  I suppose I was looking for the Executive Summary.  However, thanks.  Once again, your resourcefulness is impressive. 


Quote
I do believe folks realize the more instructions are followed, the faster we can dig ourselves out and get back to living. By now folks have settled into the 'new normal'.  The small signs of recent progress encourage folks to realize that it is working and there is light at the end of the tunnel.  I do feel the general sense of cooperation and calm and don't expect riots and such.  As unruly as the Italian mentality is, i.e. driving and parking, am quite surprised the lockdown is working so well, even patiently standing in line at the stores. OTOH it is quite scary Milan is not that far away...

Likely more and more will choose to live as you do, away from the maddening (and infected) crowd.

Some changes coming in the supply chain, both by businesses and government.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 25, 2020, 06:43:21 PM

The United States was ranked the best-prepared country in the world to handle
a pandemic in late 2019 by the Nuclear Threat Initiative (NTI) and the Johns
Hopkins Center for Health Security (JHCHS) -- an assessment seemingly at
odds with claims by Democrats that the Trump administration left the
country vulnerable to the ongoing coronavirus outbreak.


I mentioned this a month ago.  The UK was a close second.  Italy ranked far down. 

Our score was still in the lower 80's, meaning we had room for improvement.  And that certainly was the case. 

Important to this is America's unparalleled resourcefulness, and we see that in the manner we overcame out testing shortcomings and now new shortfalls of supplies.

The real grade will come when the smoke clears, and IMO the US will not rank at the top.  Top 10 maybe.     
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 25, 2020, 07:16:00 PM
yoo-hoo, rednecks!!!!
hello, do you remember like a week or so ago, when Italy was 12 days ahead of us on the corona curve?
well guess what?
in two more days we'll be ahead of Italy
and in 4 days after that we'll be ahead of China

#1 Baby!!!!
Most Infected
Highest number of new infections
MAGA

guess what dumb phuques?
I am freakin changing my votes(yes!)
and instead of a democrat
I'm gonna vote for Trump
anything I can do to facilitate your mass suicide
even if it involves my own death
gets my votes

your ship is gonna go down HARD folks
VERY HARD
and the water is so c-o-l-d
life boats gonna disappear one by one
until there's nothing but the waves
comin in over the side

soon as you guys hit the cold water
your testicles are gonna rise up into
your abdominal cavity and hide there
like a scared little mouse

hahaha

PS

my daughters were going to launch a coup against me
and were trying to turn my wife against me
but their plan didn't work
I have engineered things so that they will both be leaving the bunker in June
I think in that time period, I will be able to get everyone to leave but my wife
and she will have absolutely no idea about what I do all day

I have begun a 1 room cabin deep in a hidden part of the forest behind my house
may take me a year to finish and will include a huge number of
traps all around it, 3 sided Punje sticks are the easiest
and I have a freaking whole forest of 40 ft tall bamboo to cut
that I can make a house or furniture out of
plus it has to be concealed, hardly visible

when law and order breaks down
I will put signs all around the forest
that any who enter
will die
and it's true

I learned this approach to "neighborhood management" from the commentary on Caesar's campaign on the Rhine by Tacitus
it seems well reasoned to me and worked well among the Teutonic Tribes




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 25, 2020, 07:44:58 PM
I am freakin changing my votes(yes!)
and instead of a democrat I'm gonna vote for Trump
Good for you.  "A damnocrat"? Biden isn't on the ballot then? 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 25, 2020, 07:52:58 PM
Yes, there were lots of signs that the global economy was really slowing down, but most experts were not forecasting an imminent recession.
The Fed Has Pumped $9 Trillion into Wall Street Over the Past Six Months, But Mnuchin Says “This Isn’t Like the Financial Crisis” (http://wallstreetonparade.com/2020/03/the-fed-has-pumped-9-trillion-into-wall-street-over-the-past-six-months-but-mnuchin-says-this-isnt-like-the-financial-crisis/)
Quote
On this past Friday morning, in what appeared to be an effort to restore confidence on Wall Street, U.S. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin gave an interview on CNBC. Mnuchin said “there’s lots of liquidity” and “this isn’t like the financial crisis.” But savvy folks on Wall Street, and readers of Wall Street On Parade, clearly understand that there is not lots of liquidity and this is exactly like the financial crisis of 2008 in terms of mega Wall Street banks losing massive amounts of their common equity capital and being on a liquidity feeding tube inserted by the Federal Reserve.
http://wallstreetonparade.com/2020/03/the-fed-has-pumped-9-trillion-into-wall-street-over-the-past-six-months-but-mnuchin-says-this-isnt-like-the-financial-crisis/?fbclid=IwAR2-ogV_YqQVF9eAW5O5_zrIFmoL1sjrN3mHqwymv_1K3ZPJegeUPqcmrpw
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 25, 2020, 07:53:48 PM
The real grade will come when the smoke clears, and IMO the US will not rank at the top.  Top 10 maybe.   


Who gets to judge? Some nations may have bragging rights deaths were low but to save their lives, they sacrificed their economy and unemployment, depression and suicides are high. They may not have enough funds available for the next outbreak. So far, Taiwan did an excellent job and probably be in the top 3 but if America fails, gets weak and China takes over Taiwan, Taiwan can't be on the list and brag about their solid performance.

Other factors include luck and how involved each nation was with China when it started. There wasn't much tourism and business between African nations and China. The virus in Africa got a late start and African nations had more time to see what is going on and prepare.

when law and order breaks down
I will put signs all around the forest
that any who enter
will die
and it's true


I got guns. I'm going to put up signs "Trespassers will be shot, Survivors will be shot again"

Last night an ex employee called me up. Over a year ago his kids played with the combination on his safe and it's permanently locked so he's been without his guns for a long time and he feels he may need them soon. I brought over a cut off saw and we cut the back of the safe open. He gave me a Sig Sauer P320 handgun which is the civilian version of the M17 pistol the military adopted in 2017 for it's sidearm. Value new is around $600. I'm eager to try it out. Anybody wanna come over and see it?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 25, 2020, 08:52:02 PM
Who gets to judge? Some nations may have bragging rights deaths were low but to save their lives, they sacrificed their economy and unemployment, depression and suicides are high. 

I think this on the 'increased suicides' is overplayed.  I think what would really lead to more suicides is when family members get sick and die, the remaining family members are devastated and they may contemplate or execute suicide. 
part of me would love to sit around the house all day .   I've got a million projects to do, I could study another language, clean up, landscape, read more, message/talk to old friends, relax and eat like a king..  I think I could be perfectly ok with being on house arrest for a month if I had to be.  Instead I haven't missed a day of work which is always frenetic. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 25, 2020, 09:12:51 PM
Who gets to judge? Some nations may have bragging rights deaths were low but to save their lives, they sacrificed their economy and unemployment, depression and suicides are high. They may not have enough funds available for the next outbreak. So far, Taiwan did an excellent job and probably be in the top 3 but if America fails, gets weak and China takes over Taiwan, Taiwan can't be on the list and brag about their solid performance.

Other factors include luck and how involved each nation was with China when it started. There wasn't much tourism and business between African nations and China. The virus in Africa got a late start and African nations had more time to see what is going on and prepare.

I got guns. I'm going to put up signs "Trespassers will be shot, Survivors will be shot again"

Last night an ex employee called me up. Over a year ago his kids played with the combination on his safe and it's permanently locked so he's been without his guns for a long time and he feels he may need them soon. I brought over a cut off saw and we cut the back of the safe open. He gave me a Sig Sauer P320 handgun which is the civilian version of the M17 pistol the military adopted in 2017 for it's sidearm. Value new is around $600. I'm eager to try it out. Anybody wanna come over and see it?


JUST the sort of post that makes me glad we don't have a gun culture..I'm sure you checked to make sure he had another safe in which to put the guns ..

Does BillyB not think ... "Why would Americans need guns at this time ?"

  Is he suggesting citizens will be stealing from each other ... There'll be a need to defend one's property ?

Does he think the Chinese will take the opportunity and 'invade' ?




Hardly a great indictment , surely ?

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 25, 2020, 09:28:19 PM


Does BillyB not think ... "Why would Americans need guns at this time ?"

  Is he suggesting citizens will be stealing from each other ... There'll be a need to defend one's property ?

Hardly a great indictment , surely ?

Us having guns is what makes us so 'exceptional'!  Us also having the largest prison population also makes us exceptional.

It is best to own a gun in many parts of the USA to deter crime....or to commit it. 

Fathertime!   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 25, 2020, 09:52:00 PM
tonight I ran through the forest again
and counted each step...
1,728
I divide the steps into groups
and I am going to spend every night the entire summer running through the forest and memorizing the trees and bushes that I see in night vision scope green as I run...
until each step is in my memory
and this is only the first part...

then I am going to start building traps all through the forest
only I will know their location
they will not be on the path I have memorized
but anyone pursuing me would be at risk...
or anyone trespassing

tonight, I did not run with a gun, but with a Paul Chen short Katana
strapped across my shoulders, still same black socks/shorts/shoes/hat
and head mounted night vision

I think after a week of running like this, I can start to add some weights
until I get to 10 pounds and can still more or less make the same time
across the forest

running on loosely packed soil like this is surprisingly "low impact"
and not at all like running on pavement

there will probably be more brush growing in the near future on my path and I will have to start trimming parts
so I don't snag or make noise at night hitting branches, etc
that's a day time task, fo sure

some parts of the ground are soft and wet and I study this ground up close with my IR illuminator to see if there are prints
usually nothing more than a couple of racoons heading towards the pond...

tonight was completely uneventful in my trip
and when I returned to the Reichstag
and went down into the bunker
all were asleep, even Eva

I bought this t-shirt making thing for one of my daughters years and years ago that lets you laser print t-shirts

so, I was thinking about making some of my very own!

which t-shirt design do you think is a better choice for me to wear to help me overcome my complex about wearing a facial mask and latex gloves and haz-mat suit among complete strangers without feeling, well a bit silly...

Please maintain a safe distance
I am a care giver in a Pediatric ward

Please maintain a safe distance
I am high on crack, and I have a 357 magnum

which one screams “stay 6 feet away from this dewd!”
besides the brace of 12“ sushi knives strapped on my suspenders



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 25, 2020, 11:52:03 PM
Us having guns is what makes us so 'exceptional'!


Fathertime!


This is what makes me so exceptional!


(http://live.staticflickr.com/4900/45004343684_59198c4ccb_z.jpg)



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 26, 2020, 12:21:59 AM
Certainly not by wearing a mask

But..

Could it be BillyB was right all along ? ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-52015486 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-52015486)

"Firstly, there is some emerging evidence that there are more "silent carriers", or healthy people with the virus who show little or no symptoms, than experts initially thought.

In China, it is estimated that a third of all positive cases show no symptoms, according to classified Chinese government data seen by the South China Morning Post."

The best cure, whatever, is to STAY AT HOME - not to interact with friends and family who aren't already with you ...

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 26, 2020, 03:52:04 AM

I opened a couple of days, and to analyze trends will require much time.

As far as hospitalizations and numbers in intensive care in US go, I can't find any statistics : /   so would be extremely difficult to compare.
Quote
Likely more and more will choose to live as you do, away from the maddening (and infected) crowd.

Can't say I regret living a bit off the beaten path for the last 20 years or so. Working from home has up and downsides though. Being able to take a nap after lunch and working in a swimsuit with a quick dip in the pool now and again is nice :)

Quote
Some changes coming in the supply chain, both by businesses and government.   

I just hope that businesses don't use this as an excuse to start those folks now out of work at the bottom again, having to work their way up the ladder when rehired elsewhere.  I noted this in the last crash with many taking wage cuts to get back to work.  In addition workload for those that remained increased, albeit in the end increasing productivity and efficiencies.  Downside it was harder to to get to those higher paying jobs, thus slow wage growth.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 26, 2020, 04:03:47 AM
The real grade will come when the smoke clears, and IMO the US will not rank at the top.  Top 10 maybe.   

Indeed, the proof is in the pudding.

I hope all countries learn a lot from this experience and from each other.  It is the only way we can help mitigate the 'next time', which may involve a more dangerous virus.  We have been very lucky so far with this one that seems fairly stable as far as mutations are concerned.

The US is now number 1 in the world for active cases.  Sometime next week I expect active cases in NY alone will exceed total active cases in Italy which are still rising but slowing noticeably.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 26, 2020, 04:44:24 AM
http://youtu.be/MK2sNramFck

Flattening the curve one blues at a time.


http://youtu.be/BtN-goy9VOY
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 26, 2020, 05:30:24 AM
Indeed, the proof is in the pudding.

I hope all countries learn a lot from this experience and from each other.  It is the only way we can help mitigate the 'next time', which may involve a more dangerous virus.  We have been very lucky so far with this one that seems fairly stable as far as mutations are concerned.

Amen

Quote
The US is now number 1 in the world for active cases.  Sometime next week I expect active cases in NY alone will exceed total active cases in Italy which are still rising but slowing noticeably.
I don't really see active cases as a marker to be concerned about. This is a given though considering the US was so much slower to become infected on a mass scale. It was expected, no? NY is definitely a hot spot but that's no surprise either given the close quarters, subway transit system and international population. It's very likely to end up on the scale of Italy
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 26, 2020, 05:55:50 AM

It's not really project fear.  Don't you believe that the curve has been flattened with measures to isolate and keep distances?

The purpose of flattening the curve is so that hospitals are not overwhelmed by cases, thereby having to choose who lives and who dies, as allegedly occurred in Italy. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.

OMG, when you quoted CB, I could see his grasp of reality hasn't improved ...

He's probably still goin' the some Pub that does illegal 'lock ins' and thinks that's cool .... that this isn't going to change his life ..

ANYWAY ..  I feel sorry for folks trapped in nations that have closed their borders and they become outcasts ..

SC made it home overnight - no quarantine or stay at home requested  - as she'd been in Thailand for over 30 days


At midnight, Moscow time, all flights  - scheduled and charters will be refused entry to RU airspace - so only repatriation flights from now on


 









Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 26, 2020, 06:37:39 AM
OMG, when you quoted CB, I could see his grasp of reality hasn't improved ...

He's probably still goin' the some Pub that does illegal 'lock ins' and thinks that's cool .... that this isn't going to change his life ..

ANYWAY ..  I feel sorry for folks trapped in nations that have closed their borders and they become outcasts ..

SC made it home overnight - no quarantine or stay at home requested  - as she'd been in Thailand for over 30 days


At midnight, Moscow time, all flights  - scheduled and charters will be refused entry to RU airspace - so only repatriation flights from now on

I would gladly be an outcast in Ukraine if I had Independant income to live off :D Just think all those hotties all to myself without competition from other foreign men ;D If I ended up getting the virus I could push my way to the front of the hospital queue with a few antibacterial sprayed pound notes, lol.

Sadly though I am a few months away from completion of my house project where I can gain this Independant income and so have unfortunately missed the boat :(

Today my mother went out shopping this morning and the big Supermarkets have all implemented the system they had out in Italy of queuing outside, being let in one at a time and having to get something specific. Apparently a great long queue of people waiting so she didn't bother. Instead she went to our local shops in our village for what she could. She loves doing the shopping as she uses it to keep fit but I'm not sure she got all age wanted locally, apparently the big Supermarkets out as well. To my mind it looks like it's a shortage of items they just can't replenish I'm guessing as other nations are after the same goods. The panic buying was just a convenient excuse to cover up for problems opening up in their supply chain. They should have got replenished by now. Just as well I decided to stock up and got my mother into gear on it a few weeks ago ;)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 26, 2020, 06:44:31 AM
I don't really see active cases as a marker to be concerned about.

Actual cases a snapshot of what is happening now, not only good for judging the load on resources, but also good for confirming the overall trend.  An example, the number of new cases is falling here, so a levelling or drop in actual cases should follow, confirming where we may be at the top or over the 'hump'.  Something like the attached chart.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 26, 2020, 06:51:18 AM
Trench is as bad as CB as grasping reality ..


I would gladly be an outcast in Ukraine if I had Independant income to live off :D Just think all those hotties all to myself without competition from other foreign men ;D If I ended up getting the virus I could push my way to the front of the hospital queue with a few antibacterial sprayed pound notes, lol.

Sadly though I am a few months away from completion of my house project where I can gain this Independant income and so have unfortunately missed the boat :(

Today my mother went out shopping this morning and the big Supermarkets have all implemented the system they had out in Italy of queuing outside, being let in one at a time and having to get something specific. Apparently a great long queue of people waiting so she didn't bother. Instead she went to our local shops in our village for what she could. She loves doing the shopping as she uses it to keep fit but I'm not sure she got all age wanted locally, apparently the big Supermarkets out as well. To my mind it looks like it's a shortage of items they just can't replenish I'm guessing as other nations are after the same goods. The panic buying was just a convenient excuse to cover up for problems opening up in their supply chain. They should have got replenished by now. Just as well I decided to stock up and got my mother into gear on it a few weeks ago ;)

1/ The UK's supply chain was fine ... just the selfish MUPPETS stocking up  - Muppets think this is some sort of 'conspiracy'  - rather than accepting blame for a situation of THEIR creation ..

2/ You'd be screwed if locked up in Ukraine ... you DO understand the concept of 'lockdown' ? ...  Shopping for food - a little walk - that'd be it for you .. no chance to meet ladies ... if they're sensible they'd give you a wide berth of gtr than 2m ))


Glad to note you care for your Ma...you just showed us one redeeming feature ..

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 26, 2020, 07:03:58 AM
I see Moby the Oirish blagger is complaining about other posters not grasping reality.

This from the loser who chases a pensioner for $6.92  and  who got it completely wrong about Brexit...as he does everything else.

Never mind he'll be meeting with some of his imaginary friends in high places now no doubt...the fantasist: ))
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 26, 2020, 07:05:16 AM
Trench is as bad as CB as grasping reality ...

You have been a stickler for majority rule, e. g.. your criticism of America's electoral college. 

So why  among the UK members at RWD, you are always on the side of the minority opinion? 


Maybe the electoral college, et al  are important features of our governance.   ;D ;D ;D


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 26, 2020, 07:08:23 AM
Who gets to judge?

Each of us.  Its not the Olympics, no medals awarded.

For those who rely on others to tell them what they just observed,  I am certain there will be hundreds of reports in the media by Monday morning quarterbacks (plus a few here).   

The most credible analysis could come from the same organization  that in 2019 rated US #1 regarding their Global Health Security Index.   I recall that organization evaluated each nation with regard to 35+/- factors. 

http://www.ghsindex.org/
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 26, 2020, 07:28:48 AM
Is an interesting report Gator, thanks for the link again.

What caught my eye was the front page bullet:

Quote
National health security is fundamentally weak around the world. No country is fully prepared for epidemics or pandemics, and every country has important gaps to address.

Is proving to be very accurate.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 26, 2020, 07:34:37 AM
VIVA LAS VEGAS (http://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/21/coronavirus-and-sports-what-gamblers-are-betting-on-in-the-void.html)

Las Vegas is not only suffering from the entire strip shutdown, it is mightily suffering from losing betting revenues from sport betting now that every sporting event had ceased.

Oh what to bet on these days, right?

Sin city as it may be, at least Vegas have the temporary decency not to place odds with the crisis e.g. odds on final death rates for each state, pinnacle of the 'curve' for each state/country, female/male death count ratio, number of recoveries, etc... 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 26, 2020, 07:42:40 AM
I'm sure you checked to make sure he had another safe in which to put the guns ..


I don't tell people how to run their homes. The guy is in charge of his family's safety.

The US is now number 1 in the world for active cases. 


America's "outbreak" isn't as bad as it seems. America has test a lot of people and quickly so the numbers skyrocketed faster than the actual outbreak. America has tested more people than any nation on earth. China is not reporting the amount of people they tested though. The bad news is there are many many nations out there that haven't tested enough yet so we will see skyrocketing numbers from other nations soon.

I've read some Russia media propaganda saying Italy is upset with the EU and America's lack of help to their crisis so Italy turns to Russia and China for help. What do you and the Italians feel about the lack of help from your allies? Upset or understand that we have to put out our fires first before putting out someone else's?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 26, 2020, 07:47:04 AM
As far as hospitalizations and numbers in intensive care in US go, I can't find any statistics : /   so would be extremely difficult to compare.


I wasn't comparing with US.  More interested in the rate of growth in hospitalizations as a lagging marker.  Clearly I have too much idle time, chasing my tail   


Quote
I just hope that businesses don't use this as an excuse to start those folks now out of work at the bottom again, having to work their way up the ladder when rehired elsewhere.  I noted this in the last crash with many taking wage cuts to get back to work. 

The "Stimulus-Aid-Relief" bill that passed the Senate 96-0 will pay more to the unemployed than many received when working.  Some believe this eliminates the incentive to return to work.  If so,  businesses will need to pay more. 

This bill consists of 1400 hastily written pages.  It is imperfect and will need fine tuning. 

When I mentioned changes in the supply chain, I was thinking there could be a wave of reallocating supply chain sources around the globe (because China has proven unreliable), and maybe returning much of pharmaceutical manufacturing  to the US.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 26, 2020, 07:52:01 AM
It was expected, no? NY is definitely a hot spot but that's no surprise either given the close quarters, subway transit system and international population. It's very likely to end up on the scale of Italy

And from your neck of the woods, we now see that Mardi Gras celebrations (peaking February 25) preceded a wave of infections in Louisiana.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 26, 2020, 07:59:01 AM
And from your neck of the woods, we now see that Mardi Gras celebrations (peaking February 25) preceded a wave of infections in Louisiana.

Close but not quite in my neck of the woods. But yessir, Mardi Gras could have and very well still may prove as deadly as these soccer matches in Italy. We've only found 1 infection so far in our county. They are keeping the details fuzzy but it is suspected he is an out of towner

http://apnews.com/ae59cfc0641fc63afd09182bb832ebe2?fbclid=IwAR1cwnLXR4b3X-CQq361_ZAyiDrJ-TGts_9WLvApnbID0STV1q1w_k3Jsmk (http://apnews.com/ae59cfc0641fc63afd09182bb832ebe2?fbclid=IwAR1cwnLXR4b3X-CQq361_ZAyiDrJ-TGts_9WLvApnbID0STV1q1w_k3Jsmk)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 26, 2020, 08:08:05 AM
The "Stimulus-Aid-Relief" bill that passed the Senate 96-0 will pay more to the unemployed than many received when working.  Some believe this eliminates the incentive to return to work.  If so,  businesses will need to pay more. 


In Washington State, max weekly unemployment benefits is $790. Add the extra $600 per week the relief bill gives, many unemployed people will get up $1390 per week while staying home. The virus is providing an easy and financially secure life for many! Hope those people don't start liking the devil that will eventually bury them.

http://www.savingtoinvest.com/maximum-weekly-unemployment-benefits-by-state/


WHO criticizes nations for wasting time and saying the window of opportunity to fighting this virus is narrowing. Although I'm not happy with WHO's job performance in January, they need to continue to put out warnings that we can't allow this virus to take permanent control over us and future generations. We can't gamble humanity's future assuming a vaccine will be found. We don't want future generations to read history books that says we failed.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-25/countries-should-stop-wasting-time-and-fight-virus-who-says
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 26, 2020, 08:19:59 AM
You have been a stickler for majority rule, e. g.. your criticism of America's electoral college. 

So why  among the UK members at RWD, you are always on the side of the minority opinion? 


Maybe the electoral college, et al  are important features of our governance.   ;D ;D ;D

Gator, is the majority opinion on here to hoard, but otherwise live life as normal ? !
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 26, 2020, 08:20:30 AM
In Washington State, max weekly unemployment benefits is $790. Add the extra $600 per week the relief bill gives, many unemployed people will get up $1390 per week while staying home. The virus is providing an easy and financially secure life for many! Hope those people don't start liking the devil that will eventually bury them.

I guess staying home is a good thing nowadays.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 26, 2020, 08:48:50 AM
In Washington State, max weekly unemployment benefits is $790. Add the extra $600 per week the relief bill gives, many unemployed people will get up $1390 per week while staying home. The virus is providing an easy and financially secure life for many! Hope those people don't start liking the devil that will eventually bury them.

(California's max IINM is $940.00/biweekly)

So..if a premium of $600.00 is added/wk for the next 4 months, for a Californian making less than $75,000.00/yr , this federal compensation will give an unemployed/out of work person $ 1,370.00/wk. Or  $5,936 +/mo ($1,370 x 52 / 12). This is, of course, adding the $1,200.00/mo per individual making <$75k/yr. If he/she have kids...add another $500.00/child.

Seem reasonable to me.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 26, 2020, 08:55:24 AM
According to the Taiwan commentators, the reporter had accompanied a friend who was seeking care for his sick mother, but the hospital, while allowing patients to stay in the waiting area, was refusing to admit any of them. When the reporter asked the reason, a health worker at the hospital told him the hospital was under pressure from the central government to report no new cases.

(Now we know how China reports no new cases .....)

http://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2020/03/25/doing_a_double-take_on_chinas_no-new-infection_claim_122944.html

Everyone (not named Fathertime) who believes the Communist Chinese Government and their claim of no new cases to report, please raise your hand.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 26, 2020, 09:25:31 AM
According to the Taiwan commentators, the reporter had accompanied a friend who was seeking care for his sick mother, but the hospital, while allowing patients to stay in the waiting area, was refusing to admit any of them. When the reporter asked the reason, a health worker at the hospital told him the hospital was under pressure from the central government to report no new cases.

(Now we know how China reports no new cases .....)

http://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2020/03/25/doing_a_double-take_on_chinas_no-new-infection_claim_122944.html

Everyone (not named Fathertime) who believes the Communist Chinese Government and their claim of no new cases to report, please raise your hand.

Hmm, looking back 5 days, I've failed to see a day where the Chinese haven't reported less than 100 new cases  :popcorn:
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 26, 2020, 09:41:11 AM
Gator, is the majority opinion on here to hoard, but otherwise live life as normal ? !

All issues over the years, not just stockpiling.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 26, 2020, 09:45:19 AM
Hmm, looking back 5 days, I've failed to see a day where the Chinese haven't reported less than 100 new cases  :popcorn:

Don't fall for their propaganda. China reports no new cases within their country and any cases they do report they say is imported so it's somebody else's fault. Out of 1.4 billion people do you think there are zero new transmissions among them right now?

Italy taking more drastic steps shutting down most factories. Article said they are entering into a war time economy. I think it's actually worse. In war, you can put everybody to work in factories or the front line. With the virus, you have to tell everybody to quit working and pay them in an attempt to beat it. How long can that last?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/in-drastic-step-italy-shuts-most-factories-to-halt-virus/ar-BB11KgG1?ocid=ientp
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 26, 2020, 10:35:05 AM
tonight I ran through the forest again
and counted each step...


In your personal battle against this scourge, it seems you have once again gone off your rocker.


I much prefer the krimster who overzealously analyzed epidemiologic data.  Instead of digging punji pits, why not turn your energy to the field of Epidemic Intelligence Service.

There is such a group, a branch of the CDC.  CDC will soon take applications for the EIS Class of 2021.  If you can not wait, or do not qualify for the EIS, you can purchase the CDC Field Epidemiology Manual. 

Look at the amazing list of chapters,  Chapter 6 alonee will give you a blue-vein woodie. 


 Part I: The Field Investigation

1: Defining Field Epidemiology

2: Initiating Operations

3: Conducting a Field Investigation

4: Collecting Data

5: Using Technologies for Data Collection and Management

6: Describing Epidemiologic Data

7: Designing and Conducting Analytic Studies in the Field

8: Analyzing and Interpreting Data

9: Optimizing Epidemiology–Laboratory Collaborations

10: Collecting and Analyzing Qualitative Data

11: Developing Interventions

12: Communicating During an Outbreak or Public Health Investigation
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 26, 2020, 11:08:21 AM

I wasn't comparing with US.  More interested in the rate of growth in hospitalizations as a lagging marker.  Clearly I have too much idle time, chasing my tail   

Goes something like from zero to overloaded in the blink of an eye.  One of Cuomo's sidekicks said it best.. 'you don't know it hits you until it hits you' or something like that.

Quote
The "Stimulus-Aid-Relief" bill that passed the Senate 96-0 will pay more to the unemployed than many received when working.  Some believe this eliminates the incentive to return to work.  If so,  businesses will need to pay more. 

That works to support containment efforts.  Wonder if that was part of the rationalization.

Quote
This bill consists of 1400 hastily written pages.  It is imperfect and will need fine tuning. 

Possibly.  Guess they'll have to start drafting the next instalment now.

Quote
When I mentioned changes in the supply chain, I was thinking there could be a wave of reallocating supply chain sources around the globe (because China has proven unreliable), and maybe returning much of pharmaceutical manufacturing  to the US.

I think the 'strategic stockpile' will have to be redimensioned.  Less costly in the long run.  Maybe include some critical tooling and raw materials needed to start up fabrication of critical items.  A lot will be done to make some of the necessities reusable and sterilizer safe.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 26, 2020, 11:36:23 AM
All issues over the years, not just stockpiling.

Best start a thread on same.. not the place here ..

Sure this place is a hot bead of gung ho 'Republican' Americans .. and I'm an pendantic Irish git ..
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 26, 2020, 12:22:17 PM
Desperate shoppers not desperate enough to buy vegan foods
from picked-over grocery shelves


(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUDLUEaUcAEE4nJ?format=png&name=small)

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article241519911.html#storylink=cpy
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 26, 2020, 01:17:06 PM
When the reporter asked the reason, a health worker at the hospital told him the hospital was under pressure from the central government to report no new cases.

(Now we know how China reports no new cases .....)


One grain of salt - your source is Taiwan, the enemy of CCP.  And maybe there was no room in the inn. 

The CCP definitely attempted a huge coverup in the beginning, and soon afterwards implemented a draconian quarantine.  The extent of the quarantine certainly could  dramatically slow the spread, yet 100%  success seems unlikely. 

The incredible extent of both is reported by Aussie news in this video from January.  It is well worth watching if you have not seen it.  I suggest fast forwarding through the brief  parts about research by the West for therapeutics and vaccines.  The welding shut of apartment entrance doors and the forced extraction of those with elevated body temperatures blow my mind.


http://youtu.be/ycrqXJYf1SU

I apologize if someone else such as 2tall have already posted this video. 


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 26, 2020, 01:20:24 PM
haha
dumb suicide cult phuques

about an hour from now, the USA will be the world leader in Corona infections, we are ALREADY ahead of Italy
remember when we were 12 days behind them on the curve?
now they're in the rear view mirror and getting further and further away
you'll see China in the rear view mirror an hour from now
weeeee, look how fast we're going!!!!

USA #1
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 26, 2020, 01:25:21 PM
Don't fall for their propaganda. China reports no new cases within their country and any cases they do report they say is imported so it's somebody else's fault. Out of 1.4 billion people do you think there are zero new transmissions among them right now?

Italy taking more drastic steps shutting down most factories. Article said they are entering into a war time economy. I think it's actually worse. In war, you can put everybody to work in factories or the front line. With the virus, you have to tell everybody to quit working and pay them in an attempt to beat it. How long can that last?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/in-drastic-step-italy-shuts-most-factories-to-halt-virus/ar-BB11KgG1?ocid=ientp

Exactly. We have just begun a lockdown and while some jobs/sectors are still running including thankfully my own, so far, the longer it goes on for the worse the economy will become. So we are not only fighting a virus but also fighting a battle for the economy against the clock. We are presently early days into it but after a few weeks problems are going to mount up for some, after a few months, moreso. The bigger picture though is that the economic output of the country as a whole can be trashed, a lot of it long term and government finances put into trouble. Neither of them bode well for the future and could signal economic hardship for years after.

Italy is making it worse by shutting down factories. If that dramatically cuts cases in a short time period it's a gamble that has paid off, if it doesn't it's reaping even worse economic disaster to come. The UK is fortunate in that we left the EU at the end of January. We are already going to benefit in terms of not being dragged into the economic mess in western EU member states. Italy, Spain, France & Germany are all being hit hard by the virus and by their respective economic lockdowns. A joint EU bond has been proposed in which all states equally share the debt for the cost of the EU bond to sort out the problem. That could cause even more turmoil and argument depending on each EU members respective position and handling of the crises. Big upset may be coming in the EU, Western members won't be able to provide the money to do up Eastern members economies and member nations are likely to feel differently about the bond.

I personally think that this will bring about an early end to the EU, both the EU and it's main economic contributors will be deeply in the economic sh*t from all of this.

In the UK we can happily stand aside and not have to be dragged into this EU bond scheme which will likely end as another incompetent mess. We also have the advantage of seeing how Italy handles the crises and how we might handle it better as a result.

Looking up the other day apparently the Mussolini family still exists, could see one of Benito's descendents & the fascists in power soon.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 26, 2020, 02:01:17 PM
haha
dumb suicide cult phuques

about an hour from now, the USA will be the world leader in Corona infections, we are ALREADY ahead of Italy
remember when we were 12 days behind them on the curve?
now they're in the rear view mirror and getting further and further away
you'll see China in the rear view mirror an hour from now
weeeee, look how fast we're going!!!!

USA #1

What are your plans when it all goes south Krim? What are your daughters thoughts on this virus situation?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 26, 2020, 02:26:41 PM
after June, I doubt I will ever see my daughters again...
after my wife passes, if I am still alive, I intend to live as a hermit in the forest
because in the near future, it will be impossible to defend my house or my neighborhood
the best security will be obscurity
I can live many life times over on the hoard of gold and silver I have recently reburied

I will submit myself to the virus when I think the hospitals might give me a better chance of survival than they otherwise would in the near future
if my will to survive is stronger than the virus's power to kill me, then I will survive
and that should give me about 3 years of immunity
otherwise I will die

already have drawn my blades once while standing in line
virus rebels are an actual thing here...
people taking pictures of themselves licking food in the supermarket and then posting on facebook
I have actually seen teenagers approaching old people from behind and deliberately coughing on them and quickly run away laughing...
I have seen this myself!!!!

hence, my bike riding rear view mirrors on my sunglasses
so I can watch these assh&les
and 2, 12 inch sushi knives
which believe it or not, is TOTALLY LEGAL for me to wear like this in the state of Texas!!!!
our Republican governor made this law a few years ago....

even against an armed opponent with a concealed handgun
before he could even get his hand on the grip of his pistol
I'd have one blade deep into his liver just below the rib cage and begin slicing to the right
and the other either as deep into his eye socket as I could get it, or slice the upper part of the carotid on the neck, where it's closest to the skin

I try to wear the scariest t-shirts I can, because everyone here is treating this thing like it's a complete joke
but if you look like you're some kinda middle aged crack addict with 2 large sushi knives strapped to you
and you randomly mutter to yourself about Putin taking over Ukraine....
well...
this will help promote a healthier distance between you and every other dumb sh&t out there...

this is life in Trump's America MFers
it's either kill or be killed
just standing in line trying to buy bread


can't wait for the freaking summer time
good job, Trump voters!!!



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 26, 2020, 03:07:43 PM
...
Everyone (not named Fathertime) who believes the Communist Chinese Government and their claim of no new cases to report, please raise your hand.

Forget that jone…

*It* is on our doorsteps...ala Portergeist's infamous declaration, *They're Here!*

http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/phcommon/public/media/mediapubhpdetail.cfm?prid=2282

LMAO. I don't know why Brentwood & Sta Monica counts are so high now, plus West LA, Culver City, Venice...Heheh! Brace yourselves, folks. Bayonets ready!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 26, 2020, 03:24:51 PM
I am curious.   Our case count is relatively low compared to our dense/pak number of people in LA County.   Now I'm not complaining.   LA County has, plus or minus, 13 million people.   Of these less than a thousand are confirmed cases.

We used to do a loser's lottery at Trump National that benefited the local YMCA (18 holes and the dinner and lottery that followed).   Every name would get picked out of the hat, with the guy who was pulling the names out the hat announcing the name and calling us all types of verbiage that indicated what losers we were.   But it got down to the end, and, of course, that guy was the biggest 'Loser'.   Kinda like I feel that this virus is going.   The most unlucky are those that wind up on the bed with a respirator that can't keep up.   Our loser's lottery typically got a new set of golf clubs.   The virus losers get a memorial.   But out of 13 Million the biggest losers are few and far between.   And think of the number of traffic accidents that aren't happening because the freeways are clear.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 26, 2020, 03:41:04 PM
Any thoughts on here when this virus crises will mostly be over and restrictions are lifted in each respective country?

We were told roughly 12 weeks or so here in the UK from lockdown. I could easily see it being longer though.

I would be hoping for travel to either Ukraine or Russia at the latest September or October but if course they are behind us in all this at the moment, I'm guessing by a out three weeks as we here in the UK are roughly where Italy was three weeks ago. So I may be waiting for Coronavirus to clear over there even while it may be mostly clear here. Any thoughts whether a September or October journey may be possible?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 26, 2020, 03:46:01 PM
i haven't kept track of the UK...
because of our leadership
the USA will have the highest, longest, FIRST PEAK, when compared to any other of over 100 nations...

China ended quarantine a month ago...
numbers are creeping back up
second peak in the fall
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 26, 2020, 03:49:58 PM
I am curious.   Our case count is relatively low compared to our dense/pak number of people in LA County.   Now I'm not complaining.   LA County has, plus or minus, 13 million people.   Of these less than a thousand are confirmed cases.

The late/lack of testing kits created a momentary forced perspective, jone. I have this nasty feeling there's a reason why Mercy was docked in Long Beach, instead of the Bay Area where the bigger number of cases at the present time is in NoCal. Manhattan Beach is pushing 20. I just a feeling where on the same hike NY is today once the testing becomes widely administered.

Quote
We used to do a loser's lottery at Trump National that benefited the local YMCA (18 holes and the dinner and lottery that followed).   Every name would get picked out of the hat, with the guy who was pulling the names out the hat announcing the name and calling us all types of verbiage that indicated what losers we were.   But it got down to the end, and, of course, that guy was the biggest 'Loser'.   Kinda like I feel that this virus is going.   The most unlucky are those that wind up on the bed with a respirator that can't keep up.   Our loser's lottery typically got a new set of golf clubs.   The virus losers get a memorial.   But out of 13 Million the biggest losers are few and far between.   And think of the number of traffic accidents that aren't happening because the freeways are clear.

Funny. Never heard of that particular lottery game. It would be somewhat apropos had the initial report held that only the eldest with medical conditions that succumb mostly with the virus, but looking at the latest reports, it seems now the age range between 18-49 (sometimes with no medical condition) is starting to share the number almost to par.

True. Accident fatalities have dramatically decreased.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 26, 2020, 03:54:00 PM
Trump and Co, just finished their daily live press conference.

Dr Fauci said some important things. He said he is confident a treatment will be eventually found with at least partial or full success. He said it may take a year to a year and a half to have a vaccine ready. He said it takes time to verify a vaccine actually works and their working on multiple options at the same time. He mentioned some vaccines can harm people more than they help and may end up giving us the infection that its supposed to protect us from. He doesn't know how the virus will behave after we beat back the outbreak. We may experience it in cycles or it may disappear for awhile and come back seasonally. He said the virus determines the timeline.

 I hope hot weather keeps the virus away because from the time it showed up in America in January, it only took two months to do trillions of dollars of damage to our economy. It would've done much more damage if we didn't take action against it.

I would be hoping for travel to either Ukraine or Russia at the latest September or October but if course they are behind us in all this at the moment, I'm guessing by a out three weeks as we here in the UK are roughly where Italy was three weeks ago. So I may be waiting for Coronavirus to clear over there even while it may be mostly clear here. Any thoughts whether a September or October journey may be possible?

The virus decides what is going to happen in September and October. Outbreaks between nations seem to be staggered at the moment. There's hope this virus is seasonal and will disappear in the Summer and show back up in the colder months. Nobody really knows what the virus is going to do a this time. If this virus cycles every two months with staggered outbreaks around the world, you're going to have to settle for a local girl.

Accident fatalities have dramatically decreased.


Because we have changed our behavior, no shaking hands, playing sports, or even working there are less physical injuries, illnesses, and deaths across the board.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 26, 2020, 04:16:52 PM

The 2020 G20 virtual summit has concluded. 20 World leaders intend to pump 5 trillion dollars into the global economy and work together to find a solution to beat the virus. Putin asked for sanctions relief because it's a matter of life and death.

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/03/26/world-leaders-seem-denial-demands-radical-global-action-coronavirus-virtual-g20
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 26, 2020, 04:18:13 PM
Hmm, looking back 5 days, I've failed to see a day where the Chinese haven't reported less than 100 new cases  :popcorn:
Easy to catch Jone in another baldfaced lie. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 26, 2020, 04:24:23 PM
In Washington State, max weekly unemployment benefits is $790. Add the extra $600 per week the relief bill gives, many unemployed people will get up $1390 per week while staying home. The virus is providing an easy and financially secure life for many! Hope those people don't start liking the devil that will eventually bury them.

http://www.savingtoinvest.com/maximum-weekly-unemployment-benefits-by-state/

 
I suspect a pretty fair portion of the  more ambitious people will collect the money and still work on the side.   

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 26, 2020, 04:25:55 PM

The virus decides what is going to happen in September and October. Outbreaks between nations seem to be staggered at the moment. There's hope this virus is seasonal and will disappear in the Summer and show back up in the colder months. Nobody really knows what the virus is going to do a this time. If this virus cycles every two months with staggered outbreaks around the world, you're going to have to settle for a local girl.

Noooo...!!! Let s hope it doesn't come to that :(

Possibly a Welsh girl might be ok, they seem less stuck up than a lot of English girls. Either side of the border there are lots of fat girls, maybe the gov will introduce rationing and sort that out.

I'm guessing that at some point countries are going to have to try and get on a par with each other before a final global effort to lock out this virus.

I'm guessing it will probably be about 4-5 months to get to this stage from where we are now. Then a small relief of a week or two of back to mild lockdown before a complete global co-ordinated lockdown.

I think you're right Billy that if they all muff around and re-infection happens every couple of months then it could result in every couple of months alternating between lockdowns coming and going with the virus.

I'm not sure if Russia will handle the virus at all well, Putin has already pointed to the problem of the size of the country being an issue. I think for the US the size of the US and the activness of the population could make it he problem worse.

I don't get the impression the virus is seasonal, it seems to behave more as a one of viral infection so far. We're soon to be coming into April so could be quite a telling month for that.

Will just have to wait and see I guess.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 26, 2020, 04:28:15 PM
Definitely more traffic today than yesterday around LA...still not normal traffic but I really think that more people aren't taking the virus seriously.  Perhaps that will change tomorrow given the threat seems to be getting closer to home.   In terms of traffic, I wish it were like this all the time. 

Fathertime!   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 26, 2020, 04:54:04 PM
~  20 World leaders intend to pump 5 trillion dollars into the global economy and work together to find a solution to beat the virus.  ~

LMAO! What that means is, 3 may be willing, 17 will freeload. That's the best case scenario.

I don't even know why they waste their time will these international BS gatherings since they mostly blow hot air with each other.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on March 26, 2020, 05:04:10 PM
~  20 World leaders intend to pump 5 trillion dollars into the global economy and work together to find a solution to beat the virus.  ~

LMAO! What that means is, 3 may be willing, 17 will freeload. That's the best case scenario.

I don't even know why they waste their time will these international BS gatherings since they mostly blow hot air with each other.

Take off the last five words of your last sentence.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 26, 2020, 05:08:31 PM
Shocked to see the US now has 82 thousand Coronavirus cases:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-52056586

In the UK we have 11,600 cases approximately but of course with a smaller country.

Looks like the Coronavirus situation could be starting to get out of control in the US though.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 26, 2020, 05:30:34 PM
you are just another who sits at the table of Belshazzar's feast
and I am just the poor Jew who came before you
to read to you the writing upon the wall

MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN

the words I am reading on the wall, they are about you and your world....
and I am merely reading the sentence aloud
listen to what is being said, or not...
let the righteous believe in truth
and all others can deny it
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 26, 2020, 05:56:55 PM
Trench is as bad as CB as grasping reality ..


1/ The UK's supply chain was fine ... just the selfish MUPPETS stocking up  - Muppets think this is some sort of 'conspiracy'  - rather than accepting blame for a situation of THEIR creation ..

2/ You'd be screwed if locked up in Ukraine ... you DO understand the concept of 'lockdown' ? ...  Shopping for food - a little walk - that'd be it for you .. no chance to meet ladies ... if they're sensible they'd give you a wide berth of gtr than 2m ))


Glad to note you care for your Ma...you just showed us one redeeming feature ..

Mobe, if you snooze you lose ;)

Could be right about Ukraine though, with a lockdown dating could be more challenging than ever, lol. A real pain as I was all ready to make my move this April, think I had it down for sure this time. Even dating in this country would be difficult to presumably off limits at the moment. I guess I'm kind of busy finishing off my house these next few weeks/months mainly so while I could have fitted an outing in I will be more together after finishing off the work on my house I think.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 26, 2020, 05:58:20 PM
Looks like the Coronavirus situation could be starting to get out of control in the US though.


It seems out of control based off the daily numbers reported but it isn't. Testing is done at levels and speeds not seen anywhere else in the world and testing has revealed the virus is only out of control in NY at this time. Even with the massive testing, European nations together with a population totaled equaled to America's still by far report more new infections and deaths everyday.

Bill Gates, expert epidemic slayer, thinks we need to shut down the country 6-10 weeks. He may be right but if his idea doesn't work and the virus exponentially explodes again, we'd have less money to fight the next outbreak. Trump will try a shorter regional shutdown and keep most of the economy going. If it fails, he can try a more aggressive shutdown. My governor is already talking about possibly extending the Stay at Home order that's supposed to last two weeks. It started today and he's already talking about an extension!

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bill-gates-on-coronavirus-161803530.html
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 26, 2020, 07:33:01 PM

It's been 5 weeks since Italy started their lockdown and they are still reporting upticks in new infections and death with 712 dying today. Italy has also had 40 doctors die. Article doesn't say how many nurses died.

http://news.yahoo.com/italy-coronavirus-deaths-rise-662-172735148.html

Russia builds huge hospital in Moscow in preparation for their upcoming outbreak.

http://www.yahoo.com/gma/infectious-diseases-hospital-built-moscow-204836712.html
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 26, 2020, 07:46:23 PM
by Monday, we will have DOUBLE China's infections!
and guess what future kool-aid drinkers...
3-4 days later we'll have 4 times as many...
and then guess what...
can you say, "8 times"
see, I knew you could...

I am going to bunker binge on Mr Rogers Neighborhood Tomorrow
I am preparing for my run now into the forest, this place is totally cool at night
and I can run to the other side of the forest and check out all the different neighborhoods
without anyone seeing me
and stuff is getting weirder and weirder each night

I have to clear my mind, because I am trying to record each step through the forest with my night vision scope
and memorize each step
after this summer, I will have traps all around my path
and keep a weapons cache in the middle

I have been archery practicing with 3 different bows
a crossbow, a compound bow and a recurve bow
even though the recurve has the least power
I am going to stick with it, because it's actually good enough for close range
and it's REAL FAST to shoot compared to the other two
I am practicing with the "Hun" style of holding one arrow in the bow string
while also holding 3 other arrows in my left hand, and be able to rapidly load and fire 4 arrows
at say 30 feet at night, thanks to my night vision scope, while running
so I could get off 4 silent shots at anyone following me
before switching to an automatic pistol
and when I run out of magazines
then up ahead in the weapons cache I have fully legal Class III registered complete with Federal Stamp a fully automatic ak47 with a 75 round drum magazine!!!!
robbers beware

PS
absolutely impossible to buy any large volume of gold bullion right now from ANY of my dealers, none...
even trying to grab as much as you can from retails channels is getting harder and harder and prices are rising ABOVE spot!!
probably a week from now, you might not even be able to buy gold any more, no one will sell it, except for a crazy price, above $2,000
T-Bills now have negative interest rates!!
WTF!!!
how long before all my offshore banks collapse, even one like HSBC...
not long

I guess I should be content with the metal I own now
and just let everything else burn in the coming holocaust
the sooner I let let go of the world, the better
I choose to only have nature as my companion
and read from Charles Darwin to Charles Manson
men who opened doors, so others could follow
and then they would open other doors
for others

all of it will burn, like the library of Alexandria
the bonfire of human vanity and frailty
rage, rage, against the dying of the light






Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 26, 2020, 07:53:44 PM
It seems out of control based off the daily numbers reported but it isn't. 
According to Reuters today, a study shows about 81,000 deaths from the virus in the USA.   That is a high number but nowhere near the numbers I was reading here several weeks back.  It isn't because the US is doing a great job staying indoors, because I see people everywhere and the virus has taken hold.  Overall we have been slow to react, although projected numbers aren't the end of the world. 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-forecast/coronavirus-could-kill-81000-in-u-s-subside-in-june-washington-university-analysis-idUSKBN21E00Z

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 26, 2020, 08:13:21 PM

MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN

the words I am reading on the wall, they are about you and your world....
and I am merely reading the sentence aloud
listen to what is being said, or not...
let the righteous believe in truth
and all others can deny it

....he not busy being born is busy dying.....


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 26, 2020, 08:20:10 PM
sure, he was from my tribe, he could read the wall like me as well
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 26, 2020, 10:31:27 PM

I have been archery practicing with 3 different bows
a crossbow, a compound bow and a recurve bow

in the weapons cache I have fully legal Class III registered complete with Federal Stamp a fully automatic ak47 with a 75 round drum magazine!!!!
robbers beware


If somebody tries to steal your hoarded toilet paper and food, kill them quietly with a bow. If you shoot somebody, it will give away your location and as a result you will have to deal with a horde of people.



Cruise ship industry won't be getting a bailout by America. Companies headquarters are in Panama, Bermuda, and Liberia. Since they pay taxes to those nations, they can ask for a bailout from them.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/cruise-lines-early-source-of-coronavirus-infections-out-of-bailout-package/ar-BB11LAuE?ocid=spartanntp

I watch the video below to see some of the reasons the Relief bill took so long to pass. Many Democrats disappeared and refused to debate their proposals on the floor in front of a camera. I see why. They wanted to add a corporate diversity law putting quotas on corporate boards based on race and sex into the relief bill and eliminate the Postal Service's debt. They wanted Student loan forgiveness and add an election rule to make all States have same day voter registration. Probably because it benefits them. The Dems also want all airlines to go carbon neutral by 2025 if they want to benefit from the relief bill. Every airline has to tell passengers on every flight what the greenhouse emissions are too. They want to subsidize retirement plans for newspaper employees. Got to reward anti Trump journalists for their good work! $15 hr minimum wage. That's only good if you have a job of course. This is just a sample of 1400 pages of proposals the Dems tried to sneak in the relief bill. Lots of stuff in there that has nothing to do with the virus, protecting the economy, saving jobs and business, giving relief to the unemployed, and saving lives but hey, if you survive the virus you will live in a greener nation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGDwF6YjF8M

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: IvanM07 on March 26, 2020, 11:34:22 PM
Hey everyone from Texas, I cleared mine was thankfully mild, as we've all learned doesn't matter a whole lot if you're young or old but I  didn't need a respirator and mostly had flu symptoms minus shortness of breath.

Good luck with recovery.   How have you quarantined yourself?  I suspect if anyone in my household gets it, we will all get it as everything is shared. 

Fathertime!

Crazily enough I was fine after 3 or so days. After that they followed up and didnt have any symptoms.

We were already approved to work remote and I had 4 extra weeks of PTO if I needed due to the virus but I continued after I got back to East Texas.


Thankfully in the suburban Hospital I went to it was early. Now? Man who knows... would be way worse with less attention.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 27, 2020, 01:36:11 AM
It's been 5 weeks since Italy started their lockdown and they are still reporting upticks in new infections and death with 712 dying today. Italy has also had 40 doctors die.

We've been in national lockdown only 3 weeks.  2 initial weeks were localized lockdowns that did not work out very well.  Deaths will continue to rise despite the number of infections falling.  Have to consider those most likely to pass on ar those that are in intensive care.  Their median stay in intensive care is around 3 weeks.  New intensive care cases seem to be falling from a high of around 250 new cases per day to around a hundred.

Even the national lockdown was staggered a bit, work ok, then only essential work.  Travelling home longer distances was ok, then only for very urgent matters. Going from trusting folks to comply, then blocking roads and strict controls; from a 200 buck fine to thousands.

The virus is patient, using every opportunity infect and stretch things out.  We have to be more patient than the virus by staying out of reach and hope it has not found new ways to propagate, like via mosquitoes and then on to other vectors like domestic pets.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 27, 2020, 01:39:57 AM
Hey everyone from Texas, I cleared mine was thankfully mild, as we've all learned doesn't matter a whole lot if you're young or old but I  didn't need a respirator and mostly had flu symptoms minus shortness of breath.

That's good news, Ivan.  Now you can pick up your green card for likely being immune and not a danger to others.  Go back to regular work/travels and give blood regularly so your plasma can help give others immunity.  (written in the context of some time in the near future)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 27, 2020, 04:33:34 AM
Prime Minister Boris Johnson has now caught the Corona virus.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 27, 2020, 04:42:56 AM
Hey everyone from Texas, I cleared mine was thankfully mild, as we've all learned doesn't matter a whole lot if you're young or old but I  didn't need a respirator and mostly had flu symptoms minus shortness of breath.

Crazily enough I was fine after 3 or so days. After that they followed up and didnt have any symptoms.

We were already approved to work remote and I had 4 extra weeks of PTO if I needed due to the virus but I continued after I got back to East Texas.


Thankfully in the suburban Hospital I went to it was early. Now? Man who knows... would be way worse with less attention.
Sounds pretty bad since you were in the hospital. Certainly much worse than just the regular flu which is already miserable enough. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 27, 2020, 07:18:13 AM



Hi Moby


Ilona cleaned my place today. She told me she was able to pay the rent for the next month with the help of a friend. And I am helping her with food. She does not ask me for money and is still hanging on to the $50 bill I gave her. From the people I've come in contact with everyone here is especially kind to one another. I think everyone knows it is time put down differences and realize what is important and what is not.




I am going to post this on the coronavirus and business in Georgia threads. 


Take care,
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 27, 2020, 07:32:52 AM

The virus is patient....


'Patient' is too gentle to my ear.  This sonofabitch pathogen is persistent as well as lethal and highly contagious.     

Accordingly, our responses must be resolute.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 27, 2020, 07:35:14 AM
'Patient' is too gentle to my ear.  This sonofabitch pathogen is persistent as well as lethal and highly contagious.     

Accordingly, our responses must be resolute. 
If the first part is accurate, then we (In the US) are not doing our part of being resolute...maybe we can blame china for that.

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 27, 2020, 07:46:26 AM
sure, he was from my tribe, he could read the wall like me as well

Incredible talent who spoke volumes in few words.

OTOH, your behavior, if it continues to progress, reminds me more of this man, a dedicated practitioner of social distancing.

(http://i.pinimg.com/564x/a3/64/da/a364daf63f12d2b6d3efd39900b18ccc.jpg)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 27, 2020, 08:22:45 AM
Well, the irony

Now the UK Health Minister has the virus .

WHY are these guys tested, when NHS staff aren't ?..





Those who know Russians - they oft claim, " not to give a sh*t" and this video is a scary reminder of why quarantining Russians seems to apply to everyone else ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWN1CAD5P_g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWN1CAD5P_g)






 

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 27, 2020, 08:51:04 AM
I did suggest a few days ago on here that maybe Vodka is proving an effective deterrent against the virus.: )

Still only 3 virus deaths being reported from Russia.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 27, 2020, 08:52:50 AM

Glad you pulled through it Ivan. Your body will possess a high level of antibodies so it's unlikely you will get it again anytime soon but still be safe. We are still learning the virus's behavior and you may get reinfected. Lifetime immunity is not guaranteed, especially if the virus mutates.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 27, 2020, 09:49:05 AM
Hey everyone from Texas, I cleared mine was thankfully mild, as we've all learned doesn't matter a whole lot if you're young or old but I  didn't need a respirator and mostly had flu symptoms minus shortness of breath.

Crazily enough I was fine after 3 or so days. After that they followed up and didnt have any symptoms.

We were already approved to work remote and I had 4 extra weeks of PTO if I needed due to the virus but I continued after I got back to East Texas.

Thankfully in the suburban Hospital I went to it was early. Now? Man who knows... would be way worse with less attention.


Hey Ivan-

I'm glad to hear you survived the onslaught! I hope you feel better soon...

I am curious how the process of requesting, then getting, tested went. And also the test itself. Was it still that invasive (as Trump described it) - *stuck the long swab way up your nose, turn right to your eyes* method?

Do you mind sharing this experience with us since I believe you are the first (only?) *recorded* member to have gone through this at this time.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 27, 2020, 09:51:03 AM
If the first part is accurate, then we (In the US) are not doing our part of being resolute...maybe we can blame china for that.

Fathertime!

Bruddah-

Let me help you out and ease your chronic angst...

http://housing.justlanded.com/en/China_Hubei_Wuhan/For-Sale (http://housing.justlanded.com/en/China_Hubei_Wuhan/For-Sale)

Methinks Canada is full due to 2016 election result.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 27, 2020, 10:36:15 AM
16 year old lass dies in France

http://f24.my/6K7a


No known underlying health problems...


I appreciate this is rare...but we all thought theis was a killer of elderly only, right? ((

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 27, 2020, 11:15:32 AM
16 year old lass dies in France

http://f24.my/6K7a


No known underlying health problems...


I appreciate this is rare...but we all thought this was a killer of elderly only, right? ((

Nope, I speculated early on when deaths began to rise in Italy that it may not be just the elderly and/or those with underlying health conditions ;) Look back about three weeks ago in this thread and you'll find it, and no doubt your subsequent put down off such an idea.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 27, 2020, 11:22:41 AM
Apparently now not only have Boris Johnson & health secretary Matt Hancock have Coronavirus but now also the Chief Medical Advisor, Chris Witty (the weird bald looking guy) also is showing symptoms of having it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52060791

So the Chief Medical Advisor was either not following his own advice or that advice was flawed, rather embarrassing for him I would have thought, lol.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 27, 2020, 11:24:53 AM
(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/gazette.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/52/e52b977c-62f5-11ea-a1d9-6bf142113d2c/5e67d07bea16a.image.jpg?crop=879%2C879%2C99%2C0&resize=1200%2C1200&order=crop%2Cresize)


(http://gumlet.assettype.com/freepressjournal%2F2020-03%2F82335741-dbbf-4f96-8d3a-bfd60b2050e1%2Fcc.jpg?rect=0%2C0%2C760%2C428&w=1200)



(http://ruinmyweek.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/more-coronavirus-memes1.jpg)



(http://www.sapeople.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/joke-the-cure-th.jpg)



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 27, 2020, 11:30:39 AM
16 year old lass dies in France


There was a report of a teen dying in America recently.

Member of the Washington DC mayor's staff died from the virus. She looks doesn't look old.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/member-of-dc-mayors-staff-dies-from-coronavirus/ar-BB11NYJi?ocid=spartandhp


Italy records their highest death toll to date with 919 dead in a day. At that pace, in three days Italy will have as much dead as China had in three months if anybody still wants to believe China's numbers.

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


Hopefully we find a vaccine. There are too many stupid people in the world where it makes it impossible to eliminate the virus from our bodies. Got people spitting on others, spitting inside public transportations, licking things including a toilet to show the world they aren't scared of the virus. Got teens coughing on fruits and vegetables at food markets. There's one woman in Wuhan that went around spitting on her neighbors doorknobs.

Dishwashing soap is now disappearing from stores. Since there are no hand sanitizers and antibacterial soap on the shelves, people are buying dishwashing soap as a replacement.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 27, 2020, 12:14:35 PM
Forced perspective.

I am reminded of H.G. Wells' fictional 'War of the Worlds'. Not the 19th century novel, but the 1950 (?) made-for-film dramatization of the novel.

Seem rather crazy how we easily depart with reality and perspective.

Today, global population is at 7.8 billion (7,754,000,000 +), and so far today, coronavirus, in 199 countries, had infected 585,000+ and taken 26,800+ lives. That's 0.00075% and 0.00035% respectively.

The world stopped in the fictional story where people gathered around a 'radio' listening to the marauding 'invisible' attackers killing earth's population one by one.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 27, 2020, 12:22:07 PM

Italy records their highest death toll to date with 919 dead in a day. At that pace, in three days Italy will have as much dead as China had in three months if anybody still wants to believe China's numbers.


We have 3 times the number of dead in China.  Been that way for a while.

Good news is that the number of new cases has been fairly level for almost a week with active cases starting to look like they are following the same trend.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 27, 2020, 12:46:16 PM
Nearly a thousand deaths from Coronavirus a day now in Italy, around 10,000 deaths in Italy so far:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52067673

So death rate rising there of recent. Cases may have levelled off but are still high and adding to the overall total.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 27, 2020, 12:58:35 PM
So death rate rising there of recent. Cases may have levelled off but are still high and adding to the overall total.

It would be expected that deaths linger, even if there is a decline in new cases.  Most are ICU cases for weeks.  I expect the toll will be high in the weeks to come before starting to drop.

In the beginning when infections start to rise there are few deaths, then they creep up on you around 14 days later.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 27, 2020, 02:28:09 PM
Nope, I speculated early on when deaths began to rise in Italy that it may not be just the elderly and/or those with underlying health conditions ;) Look back about three weeks ago in this thread and you'll find it, and no doubt your subsequent put down off such an idea.

Yawn,

Trench

it made the news BECAUSE the poor lass in an outlier ...

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 27, 2020, 02:34:28 PM
Yawn,

Trench

it made the news BECAUSE the poor lass in an outlier ...

Mobe, bedpan.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 27, 2020, 02:34:57 PM
Apparently now not only have Boris Johnson & health secretary Matt Hancock have Coronavirus but now also the Chief Medical Advisor, Chris Witty (the weird bald looking guy) also is showing symptoms of having it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52060791

So the Chief Medical Advisor was either not following his own advice or that advice was flawed, rather embarrassing for him I would have thought, lol.

It's WHitty ..  his name's been spelt wrongly for ages in the press, incl. me, but it turns out he's a Gloucester lad and YES , it is rather 'unfortunate' that the 'weird- looking' bald guy has been in BoJo's company ..

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 27, 2020, 03:11:30 PM
Bruddah-

Let me help you out and ease your chronic angst...

http://housing.justlanded.com/en/China_Hubei_Wuhan/For-Sale (http://housing.justlanded.com/en/China_Hubei_Wuhan/For-Sale)

Methinks Canada is full due to 2016 election result.
No thanks the US is stuck with me.  I'm not cowering clustered up behind a moat of toilet paper either, I've been among the people to the extent I must be, for better or worse. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 27, 2020, 03:18:54 PM
A cruise ship got 4 dead and 138 sick. Why are cruise ships still working and why are people taking vacations at a time like this?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/four-dead-138-sick-on-holland-americas-ms-zaandam-cruise-in-limbo-amid-coronavirus-crisis/ar-BB11Oc2j

Good news from NY. Governor Cuomo says hospitalization rates are going down. He also said some people have been on respirators for 20-25 days.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/yorks-coronavirus-death-toll-passes-172713123.html

Climate activists are disappointed with the relief bill

http://news.yahoo.com/senate-stimulus-bill-full-disappointments-213223575.html

Russia may put people who violate their quarantine in jail for 7 years.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-reportedly-reviewing-legislation-could-183800737.html

With a total of 14,000 Corona virus deaths worldwide so far ..it's looking like my forecast that we'd finish well short of the 280,000 worldwide Flu deaths of last year will be spot-on.


I wanted to come back to this post since we are at about 27,000 deaths and will be over 28,000 sometime today. From the first deaths reported in China in December to March 22, the day you made your post, death toll was 14,000 in 3 months. 5 days later we are at double that amount. If we let the virus run loose like the flu, deaths will exponentially increase but if we continue to take action and allow the virus to kill no more than 14,000 people per every 5 days, we will have close to a million people dead by the end of the year.

India reports only 887 infections. They have a population nearly as large as China. I feel they have many people carrying the virus undetected and will have a huge outbreak soon. Most nations are reporting few infections but it's enough to get an outbreak started. Most nations haven't experienced their first outbreak yet.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 27, 2020, 04:08:42 PM
No thanks the US is stuck with me.  I'm not cowering clustered up behind a moat of toilet paper either, I've been among the people to the extent I must be, for better or worse. 

Fathertime!

Yeah, I thought much. It's all about 'conviction' after all..the talk and the walk, is all...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 27, 2020, 05:06:58 PM

If you are sitting at home everyday, get off the video games and porn and watch Trump and Co. daily press conferences to see how our government is working for us. I'm impressed with VP Pence who doesn't sleep much in working hard to fight the virus. Government agencies and private companies are working around the clock to make supplies and get food to kids out of school. Shows the American spirit of people coming together in crisis. Trump did have to kick GM in the butt to move faster in making respirators.

Interesting moment today when a reporter said a Wall Street Journal article just came out saying Trump is dropping tariffs on China. Trump said it was fake news and he never talked about dropping tariffs on China after speaking to the Chinese president last night. Trump said the Wall Street Journal writes a lot of fake news.

Stories are coming out that NY city mayor Deblasio didn't take the virus threat seriously and even tweeted early March "Since I’m encouraging New Yorkers to go on with your lives + get out on the town despite Coronavirus, I thought I would offer some suggestions. Here’s the first: thru Thurs 3/5 go see “The Traitor”
@FilmLinc . If “The Wire” was a true story + set in Italy, it would be this film."
It's cool if he didn't prepare NY earlier because he can just blame it on Trump and the media will back him up and people will believe him.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 27, 2020, 05:47:54 PM
so, somehow the behavior of the women in the bunker has completely swung to the opposite direction, without me having any idea of why their attitudes have so suddenly changed...
maybe they are scared now

my daughters, instead of openly embracing pro-virus rebel ideology
now agree to be my “quarantined guests” in the bunker indefinitely
and promise to serve me in what ever capacity I ask them to

last night, when I returned from my run, they soaked my feet and gave me a foot massage
while I watched X-Files re-runs

my wife’s girl friend has begun flirting with me,
she likes to swim topless, and when she comes out of the pool
she’ll go down to the bunker where I am binge watching old films
and walk next to me so I can’t help but see her...
I can tell she is trying to create some kind of sexual tension with me
but I pretend not to notice...

last night, strange things were going on in the subdivision next to mine...
there were a LOT of bonfires and partys going on with a lot of people
most were young people, like a stereotypical “frat party”
but there were also some partys with older people...

never before have I seen so many bonfires burning at one time, every street had a couple in the backyard blazing away with drunken partyers
and Christmas lights!!!
almost as many now as Christmas
half the houses now have Christmas lights on at night
I feel like the Grinch staring down at Whoville
from the hill at the edge of the forest

I’m in the process of upgrading from Sushi knives
to real Japanese fighting steel
Tanto and Katana

hopefully, by the end of next week

like I say O’ my brothers...
in Trump America
it’s either kill or be killed...
after April...
if you’re standing in-line
and an infected assh&le
gets 2 feet behind you and coughs on you
consider yourself dead...
OK?

I look like I will kill you if you get too close to me
and I kinda looked that way BEFORE the virus (dewd, I'm freakin somone who can live in Russia with no problem!)
now there is NO freaking doubt about it, I'm a scary looking MFer, you best step back Jack!
I even wear signs to that effect
in case someone is not really sure
as to the nature and extant of my personality disorder...

Part II

so you American Imperialist running dogs...
your Corona numbers could very well hit 250,000 recorded infections by April 1...
what that would actually mean...
would be that by the April 30, 5% of all Trump voters
will have/had the Corona Virus...
with many not showing any apparent symptoms YET...
and you’re still not at the FIRST PEAK...
and yes, ya’ll are gonna have multiple peaks...
for well...
until you make a vaccine
however many decades that may be...
if ever...

by this time next year, 1 out of every 5 Trump voters will have/had Corona Virus
or as I call it

The Great American Corona Kool-Aid
or Jones Town II

hey dumb phuques...
is it too late for me to say to you,

“beware of false prophets”?????
ahhhhhh yeah, kinda looks like it is...!!!
doesn’t it now dumb phuques, kinda looks like it’s TOO late!!
sorry.... :(

it’s not like I’m a prophet though.....
no...no...
I am literally just the poor Jew-boy who knows how to read the writing on the wall
just like my ancestor Daniel did
what I see...
well, what can I say, it is literally, word for word, what Daniel read in the book named for him...
the writing he saw on the wall, just like me!  hoo-ray!!! I’m special!!!
so you know what’s going to follow in the wake
of the plague
and depression
right?

I call it “Cascading Failure”

here’s a primer for all you American Gopnick/Rednecks unfamiliar with the subject
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascading_failure

no clue what Daniel woulda called it
he was from a simpler time



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 27, 2020, 07:04:21 PM

Lukashenko recommends open borders, drinking vodka and visiting saunas to handle the virus. Belarus currently reports zero deaths. Let's revisit Belarus in a month to see how that worked out for them.

http://www.axios.com/europes-last-dictator-sports-coronavirus-46e7cdac-6cc9-4d0f-b4c0-4c2b32bf0889.html


my wife’s girl friend has begun flirting with me,
she like to swim topless, and when she comes out of the pool
she’ll go down to the bunker where I am binge watching old films
and walk next to me so I can’t help but see her...
I can tell she is trying to create some kind of sexual tension with me
but I pretend not to notice...


Krim, listen to what I'm about to say. This virus is killing men 2 to 1 over women. I need you and Trench to stay alive. Go to the sperm bank and donate all you got now. Go everyday. After the virus is defeated, there won't be many men left on earth. You and Trench will have to populate the earth. You will live in a world where women do all the work and all you'd have to do is make babies 24/7. Can we count on you and Trench?

There's a new anti virus busting nuke gun invented in 1953. It'll even take the paint off your car. Trump should order Nabisco to make a couple of thousand of those puppies since they got factories and it won't take much effort to convert their equipment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT5jo7aZzTw



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 27, 2020, 07:31:16 PM
oh yeah, that pooshka is called "Atomic Annie"
check out the little one called the "Davy Crocket"
sweet!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)

all this is going to get used in a couple of years now...
first in the middle east
then guess where?

glad I'll already be in a Trump mass grave by then
at Mar-a-Largo Memorial Park...
spending my well earned eternal rest
in a quiet, tranquil, beautifully and tastefully decorated memorial park
complete with a first rate Ivanka Fruit Passion concession stand in the front
where 10% of the sales go towards Covid Vaccine research
or so the sign says...
but it's pure BS of course...

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: JohnDearGreen on March 27, 2020, 08:52:26 PM

Interesting that the virus patient Putin visited was a pneumonia patient:


"Taking no chances, Putin donned a hazmat suit and visited only one patient— Dmitry Garkavi, who is a doctor and a social media influencer. The drop-in was not particularly risky, since Garkavi was hospitalized with pneumonia, and tested negative for coronavirus—twice. In his social media posts, Garkavi remarked (http://lenta.ru/news/2020/03/24/putinkommunarka/)
that he communicated with Vladimir Putin for all of 10 to 15 seconds.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 27, 2020, 09:26:11 PM
Now, I'm no fan of the DM as it can take reality and twist it to suit... but as many US folk on here use it as a source..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8160961/LA-teen-denied-care-no-insurance-death.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8160961/LA-teen-denied-care-no-insurance-death.html)

LA teen who died before testing positive for COVID-19 was turned away from urgent care because he didn't have insurance


Can this be true ?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 27, 2020, 09:56:54 PM
LA teen who died before testing positive for COVID-19 was turned away from urgent care because he didn't have insurance[/b]

Can this be true ?

Yes it is true in America but a private clinic would tell a person to go to the emergency room in the hospital where they don't refuse anybody. By law the hospital emergency room can't refuse anybody that has a medical emergency, including illegals. The article even said the clinic told them to go to the hospital. If the teen was in very bad shape to begin with, 911 should've been called or the teen should've been driven straight to the hospital which is better equipped to handle severe cases. Not sure a doctor could've saved the kid's life anyway. The most a doctor could do is give the kid a respirator.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 27, 2020, 10:20:31 PM
holy crap!  was buying random stuff in the hardware store today
I got the best and longest pair of bolt cutters they had...
and ya’ll know what?
I ain’t got no stinkin bolts to cut!!!

while walking down the aisle, I discovered that there are such things as special
manhole keys that you can buy in the store for lifting off manhole covers...
so I bought two of those as well
they’re basically just long crow bars with a special tip

tomorrow, my daughters and I are gonna go to a remote, isolated part of town
and steal a manhole cover...

if my plan works out, I’m gonna steal 7 more...
I’m gonna wrap it in plastic, and put one on the inside of each door
to make the doors bullet proof...
on my wife’s Acura SUV
it has enough gap between the door and seat
to stick the manhole cover in...
so I can make all the car doors and tailgate totally bullet proof

the manhole covers wouldn’t fit as well in any of the other cars I have without at least requiring the removal of the door handle
the Acura has enough gap between door and seat, just drop the manhole cover in and make a simple wooden brace to hold it in place
and I like the visibility and clearance that car gives me...
it’s just not fast, unfortunately...
I should probably let my daughters ride this car eventually
and I’ll make an armored muscle car for speed
and literally ride shotgun with them

someday, I'd like to have a motorbike again
but now's not the time

didn't check much out tonight in my run
just sat in the big clearing
in the middle of the forest
and looked up at the weird shapes I saw high in the clouds
above in the sky

it just feels different now...
like something's changed
remember how when you were a little kid
and you were dreading the first day of school
a feeling kinda like that
afraid to wake up tomorrow


night vision makes the world look black and a weird unnatural shade of unhealthy green
with the IR turned full on
the forest becomes a radiant bright green
as you surreally glide across
the fields of long lime colored grass and leaves

you learn to feel the ground as you run
sometime you need to soften your step
so as to not make a sound
as you run silently through the night in the woods
in the year of the plague
at the beginning of the apocalypse

no one will see me
no one will hear me
so no one will bother me

this is my training year


 



 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 28, 2020, 01:28:52 AM

Krim, listen to what I'm about to say. This virus is killing men 2 to 1 over women. I need you and Trench to stay alive. Go to the sperm bank and donate all you got now. Go everyday. After the virus is defeated, there won't be many men left on earth. You and Trench will have to populate the earth. You will live in a world where women do all the work and all you'd have to do is make babies 24/7. Can we count on you and Trench?


Yep you sure can :D

Let's just hope Moby doesn't do said, that may not be a world you wish to continue in, lol.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 28, 2020, 01:31:47 AM
I'm impressed with VP Pence who doesn't sleep much in working hard to fight the virus.

Yep, in for a Pound, in for a Pence :D
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 28, 2020, 01:38:41 AM


Let's just hope Moby doesn't do said, that may not be a world you wish to continue in, lol.

1/ One of us has already helped create enough offspring

2/ T'other on current form ... well the chances of procreation are slipping away..

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 28, 2020, 01:45:39 AM
Yes it is true in America but a private clinic would tell a person to go to the emergency room in the hospital where they don't refuse anybody. By law the hospital emergency room can't refuse anybody that has a medical emergency, including illegals. The article even said the clinic told them to go to the hospital. If the teen was in very bad shape to begin with, 911 should've been called or the teen should've been driven straight to the hospital which is better equipped to handle severe cases. Not sure a doctor could've saved the kid's life anyway. The most a doctor could do is give the kid a respirator.

Lots of words, BillyB

But I can tell you haven't read the words in the article by your 'response..

"The teen was initially taken to an urgent care facility in Lancaster after he started experiencing respiratory issues
He was turned away because he didn't have insurance and was told to go to a public hospital instead but went into cardiac arrest en route"

Once again, I have no idea of the veracity of this story - given it's 'source 

The DM doesn't mention the first port of call.




Could have predicted BillYB would 'jump' in,  fail to read, and offer an 'explanation', though ...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 28, 2020, 01:47:17 AM

I’m in the process of upgrading from Sushi knives
to real Japanese fighting steel
Tanto and Katana.

The Katana is a beautifully designed sword, light & elegant.

Unfortunately here in the UK it would be difficult to justify holding such a weapon at least while the police hold their sh*t together. Instead one here must become a master of the martial arts in order to hold back any stark raving mad mob that may form after my TP.

At the moment I am formulating my own fight system based of Bruce Lee's JKD. It is a masterpiece in the making :D
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 28, 2020, 01:49:56 AM
1/ One of us has already helped create enough offspring

1/ T'other on current form ...

Yep already more than enough Mobettes for the world to endure ;D

Though that said you might not want to come out of hiding from your Mother's basement after you read this Mobers:

http://www.document.no/2020/03/27/coronavirus-the-european-union-unravels/

Looks like your beloved EU might be on the verge of falling apart :)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 28, 2020, 02:10:23 AM
At the moment I am formulating my own fight system based of Bruce Lee's JKD. It is a masterpiece in the making :D

I would send you some wood and bricks to practice on but the hospitals have enough to do already.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 28, 2020, 02:42:56 AM
Yep already more than enough Mobettes for the world to endure ;D

Though that said you might not want to come out of hiding from your Mother's basement after you read this Mobers:

http://www.document.no/2020/03/27/coronavirus-the-european-union-unravels/ (http://www.document.no/2020/03/27/coronavirus-the-european-union-unravels/)

Looks like your beloved EU might be on the verge of falling apart :)




Moby doesn't read links


Quote
Faced with an existential threat, EU member states, far from joining together to confront the pandemic as a unified bloc, instinctively are returning to pursuing the national interest. After years of criticizing U.S. President Donald J. Trump for pushing an «America First» policy, European leaders are reverting to the very nationalism they have publicly claimed to despise.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 28, 2020, 02:46:32 AM
I'm impressed with VP Pence who doesn't sleep much in working hard to fight the virus.

At least Pence can communicate well and stay on one unified message, which is what the US needs. Trump is a distraction.  We now have a kitchen full of cooks with only one pot.  Trump wants to direct his 'greatest show', aim the spotlights on himself along with assuring his place in the credit lines.  It ain't coming off very well and will get worse as the crisis widens.

 

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 28, 2020, 03:10:53 AM



Moby doesn't read links


Moby rarely reads ANY link Trench posts...given they are 'agenda' driven tosh...  a bit like reading anything from one of your daughter's hero....

I have witnessed enough stuff Muppets read and quote as 'how the future will be'...

Unlike Trench, I do get the need to control movement and EU directives allow the refusal of entry of non citizens ( not non residents) if during a time when they can be considered a risk to Public Health or Hygiene...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 28, 2020, 04:06:33 AM
Not sure if this should be in the 'Trampu' thread or the virus one...

A perspective on how 'Trampu' has been handling this pandemic...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/27/trump-narcissism-american-blood-coronavirus?

Interfering, how those who voted for this IDIOT cannot see his glaring faults..

Lest you think I reserve my 'bile' for the US 'leader's, our blond haired mop-head has needed to get the virus to realise Healthcare workers need testing as a priority...

Some folk were referring  to BoJo as Churcillian ... :deadhorse:

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 28, 2020, 05:12:46 AM

Moby rarely reads ANY link Trench posts...given they are 'agenda' driven tosh...  a bit like reading anything from one of your daughter's hero....

I have witnessed enough stuff Muppets read and quote as 'how the future will be'...

Unlike Trench, I do get the need to control movement and EU directives allow the refusal of entry of non citizens ( not non residents) if during a time when they can be considered a risk to Public Health or Hygiene...

Funny how is your 'Freedom of Movement' in the EU now Mobe? Think you'll find it pretty non-existant in present circumstances. Though you could always try sending SC through to guinea pig it out ;D
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 28, 2020, 05:29:10 AM
Funny how is your 'Freedom of Movement' in the EU now Mobe? Think you'll find it pretty non-existant in present circumstances. Though you could always try sending SC through to guinea pig it out ;D

'Thank you' for  demonstrating your 'reading comprehension capabilities', Trench

SC is ( hopefully ) safer at our home than being stuck in Thailand, FR and CY ..

To be clear ... I PERFECTLY understand the need to close borders and control who comes in ..  I have no wish to waste any passport control officers' time at this unique moment in our lives..



 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 28, 2020, 05:49:37 AM
On another note, Germany who has a lot of intensive care capacity has been accepting ICU cases from Italy and offered to accept dozens more. Some German doctors going south to help out in the worst-hit Italian regions.  A German respirator company sent a hundred respirators flown down by their air force. Czech Republic is sending PPE.  France sent a couple hundred thousand PPE suits and a million masks.  Luxembourg and Germany are helping France with its intensive care patients.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 28, 2020, 06:16:18 AM

Moby rarely reads ANY link Trench posts...given they are 'agenda' driven tosh... a bit like reading anything from one of your daughter's hero....

I have witnessed enough stuff Muppets read and quote as 'how the future will be'...

Unlike Trench, I do get the need to control movement and EU directives allow the refusal of entry of non citizens ( not non residents) if during a time when they can be considered a risk to Public Health or Hygiene...


I read this and took note.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 28, 2020, 07:15:48 AM
For the doom and gloom brigade on here,

                                                             The 21 year old girl in  England who was eagerly reported to have died from Corona virus without any underlying health issues, didn't actually have errr Corona virus.

The Coroner said she had ,because he'd heard she'd had a cough,but the hospital treating her said she didn't have the virus and had never tested positive for it.

She is NOT included in the figures for Corona virus deaths.

The poor girl actually died from a Heart attack.

The media are very quick to put out scare stories without checking the facts...just like on here actually.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 28, 2020, 07:32:50 AM
In California, the governor yesterday has closed all beaches, and Hiking trails.  The quarantine continues to be ignored by many for frivolous reasons.  I would think the hospitals have the capacity to handle what it appears will be a surge in the coming week, but we will soon find out if our blase attitude comes back to bite us.   

All in all the numbers of infected have been steadily growing, although the number of deaths hasn't hit levels like Italy or Spain. 

While some say the virus infection grows exponentially, that doesn't appear to have been the case to this point.  If the spread were exponential the world would already have hit tens of millions or even billions by now, even with the 'social distancing' routine which wasn't stressed until later in the game. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 28, 2020, 07:36:52 AM
Yep already more than enough Mobettes for the world to endure ;D

Though that said you might not want to come out of hiding from your Mother's basement after you read this Mobers:
 
I've lost track of who is living in the basement.  I seem to recall it was you living in the basement (To save duckets of course  ;)  )  now you are reporting that it has been mobers all along in the basement. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 28, 2020, 07:49:17 AM
Here in the UK there is now a social distancing proceedure in Supermarkets similar to what Italy had I believe. I did it yesterday when I visited my local ASDA Supermarket Superstore, you wait outside two metres apart then go into the Supermarket in a one out, one in, basis. In the supermarket most then try and keep two metres apart and you get what you need, the tills are organised on the same basis. The measures do mean that there was a lot more stock on the shelves this week to last week when the supermarkets all ended up looking like they had been ransacked. Still out of most of the in demand items, hand wash, sanitizer, etc. A packs of toilet paper left, this was about 3-4pm in the afternoon so guessing they would be gone by the evening. I've already got loads of that stuff stored up so didn't get anymore. Only one person was allowed in at a time, no couples, but I guess they could split up previously or possibly an elderly person & their helper.

Big question remains over whether stricter social isolation measures have a worthwhile effect or just pretty much needlessly muff up the economy. Part of the problem is that it takes a while before the effect of any new measures filter through as people who are already infected show up from before the new measures are announced for s week or two after.

I think the one exercise a day may have to go soon as it just brings too many people out and about. I think though any more shutting down off the economy may be counterproductive and leave us in the same economic sh*t as Germany, France, Italy, Spain, etc. I just glad we are out of the EU and so not going to have to stump up for that lot. No EU imposed bureaucratic economic burden package, hooray! :)

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 28, 2020, 08:09:57 AM
For the doom and gloom brigade on here,

                                                              Professor Ferguson and Imperial College have now dropped their Corona virus death prediction for the UK from 500,000 to 20,000 to todays prediction of 5,700.

These are the bods who's previous predictions the UK has crashed its economy for.

Let's not forget the annual average for Flu deaths in the UK is 17,000.

Armageddon indeed.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 28, 2020, 08:59:12 AM

A perspective on how 'Trampu' has been handling this pandemic...


In ordinary times, discussing a nation's internal differences is important to making progress.  When facing a serious external threat, a nation bands together to defeat the threat.   

By addressing internal differences, the Guardian is distracting from the battle to protect world health and the subsequent battle to restart the global economy.   What purpose does it serve?   Does the Guardian deem the external threat is less important than our political differences?   

A day of reckoning is coming to judge governments and their leaders regarding how they addressed this external threat.  Until the corner is turned  and all facts are in, I question the value of dwelling on political differences.   The world is in the same boat.     
 

Quote
Interfering, how those who voted for this IDIOT cannot see his glaring faults..

Yes, interfering in the war against the epidemic.  Moby. if everyone is fighting the external threat, who are you going to fight? 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 28, 2020, 09:02:27 AM
For the doom and gloom brigade on here,

                                                              Professor Ferguson and Imperial College have now dropped their Corona virus death prediction for the UK from 500,000 to 20,000 to todays prediction of 5,700.

These are the bods who's previous predictions the UK has crashed its economy for.

Let's not forget the annual average for Flu deaths in the UK is 17,000.

Armageddon indeed.

"saying it like it is" ...and missing the whole success of social isolation ..

No social distancing 1 person can infect 450

with social distancing 15 ..


Penny dropping for you CB ...  ?  If you seek living and let live, Belarus may be the place for you .... Even Russia is waking up
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 28, 2020, 09:24:56 AM
Lots of words, BillyB

But I can tell you haven't read the words in the article by your 'response..

"The teen was initially taken to an urgent care facility in Lancaster after he started experiencing respiratory issues
He was turned away because he didn't have insurance and was told to go to a public hospital instead but went into cardiac arrest en route"


If you read my post and comprehended it, you would notice I based my response from that line in the article.

If the guy was in serious condition, why did he go to a clinic since he was in serious condition and there are no emergency room doctors in a clinic and they don't take people without insurance or cash.

You liked Obamacare when it came out. It was supposed to "fix" everything.

At least Pence can communicate well and stay on one unified message, which is what the US needs. Trump is a distraction.  We now have a kitchen full of cooks with only one pot.  Trump wants to direct his 'greatest show', aim the spotlights on himself along with assuring his place in the credit lines.  It ain't coming off very well and will get worse as the crisis widens.


Trump and Pence are like the odd couple but they get along great, much better than Obama and Biden. The reason I know Pence and the others on Trump's team are working so hard with little sleep is because Trump praises them often. Pence never praises himself. And when Trump says his administration is doing a good job fighting the virus, he mentions it's because of the people behind him that makes it happen working hard for the American people. Regardless of fake news saying Trump doesn't listen to experts, Trump does listen and he's made good decisions based off what experts tell him. He hasn't closed the entire country but lets States and local leaders make the decisions. Trump's decision to not close the entire country delegates responsibility to many leaders and allows most people to remain working.

While some say the virus infection grows exponentially, that doesn't appear to have been the case to this point.  If the spread were exponential the world would already have hit tens of millions or even billions by now, even with the 'social distancing' routine which wasn't stressed until later in the game. 


The virus does grow exponentially like the flu. If we leave it alone like we leave the flu alone, it will grow exponentially. We have shut down our lives and economy to prevent it from growing exponentially. Although we have taken action, the virus has done a lot of damage. In the first 3 months it killed 14,000 people. In the next 5 days, it killed another 14,000 people. If we let it continue to grow exponentially, it'll kill that many people in a day, then in hours, and eventually in minutes. With that knowledge, people should understand the monumental efforts by governments to stop it's spread.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 28, 2020, 09:25:19 AM
No self-isolation or social distancing or lockdowns in Belarus ?

Their first case was on 27th Feb,with 94 cases and no deaths up to today.

Will be very interesting for comparison purposes when this is all over.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on March 28, 2020, 10:08:47 AM
I noticed 2 drastically different management of social distancing at 2 grocery stores yesterday.

At costco, they closed every other check out line.  A staff member manages each shopper trying to check out.  Lines are drawn on the floor to mark distances between each person, with a maximum of 3 per line.  Most lines have a staff member that places the items from the shopping cart to the conveyor, and they try to keep most items in the cart for the cashier to scan with a barcode gun.

At lines without the extra staff member, they spray and wipe the conveyor belt between each customer.  The cashier and customer service booths have plastic shields, and they wipe the credit card scanner between each customer, or ask the customer to hold their card above the scanner if the card has a contactless chip. 


At a local grocery store that is just across from my house, they are operating as normal.  They just provide a cleaning wipe dispenser at the entrance.  No markers, all lines open (as manned by cashiers), no markers or instructions for patrons to keep apart.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 28, 2020, 10:21:03 AM
Lockdown,social distancing and self-isolation not going down well in Italy.

Riots are starting in Supermarkets as people are starving without money for food.

Meanwhile another 889 have died from the virus there in the last 24 hours.

 5,974 new cases too,second highest in the last six days and not much lower than the peak of 6,557 which was 7 days ago...so very little sign of lockdown,social distancing and self-isolation actually working whilst the economy goes into meltdown.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 28, 2020, 10:49:51 AM
Indeed, no let up in Italy:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-52067673

And end of the EU coming :)

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/1261604/European-Union-Coronavirus-response-Italy-Spain-Portugal-corona-bonds/amp
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 28, 2020, 11:32:08 AM
Indeed, no let up in Italy:

Obviously you are not reading prior posts, nor can appreciate what the attached graphs showing new cases means.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 28, 2020, 11:39:40 AM
When facing a serious external threat, a nation bands together to defeat the threat.   

Isn't it a bit unusual that Trump announces to the public he may quarantine several states today without even speaking to their governors about it? Says something like folks from NY are fleeing to infect FL. That is not the way to build unity or band the country together.  Instead, it creates a friend or foe environment.  Trump is not even trying to act like a leader, he is keeping up his blame game instead.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 28, 2020, 11:47:21 AM
Riots are starting in Supermarkets as people are starving without money for food.


BC, isn't Italy providing citizens money for food like other Western nations are doing?

Chelseaboy, I read an article fruits and vegetables may run out without more workers in Britain. Those in the food industry are more important than those in the medical industry. We are only 3 meals away from anarchy. If people don't know where their next meal is coming from, there will be anarchy in the streets. Still early but all governments need to take early and continuous action to make sure food gets to everybody throughout this crisis.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/fruit-veg-run-unless-britain-170530426.html


Spain's 640,000 Chinese test kits only have a 30% accuracy rating and will return them back to China. Czech Republic reported a 20% accuracy rating on Chinese test kits. Most people who are infected may be released back into the general population instead of quarantined do to the faulty results. Test kits that provide rapid results seem to make the most errors. No test kits are 100% accurate in the world. America's CDC requires at least an 80% sensitivity/accuracy. Inventing new tests for a new virus in record time is a recipe for disaster. There's no way we can identify every infected person on earth even if we had enough test kits for everybody.

http://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-spain-says-rapid-tests-sent-from-china-missing-cases-2020-3

Isn't it a bit unusual that Trump announces to the public he may quarantine several states today without even speaking to their governors about it?  That is not the way to build unity or band the country together.  Instead, it creates a friend or foe environment.  Trump is not even trying to act like a leader.

Not true. Watch Trump and Co press conference everyday. Pence, if not Trump, speaks with governors in hot spots everyday. Trump has not ordered a federal quarantine yet on states like NY but other states have already taken action. Rhode Island is using police and troops to prevent New Yorkers from entering their state. A lot of New Yorkers have second homes in other states and are avoiding sheltering in place by travelling outside the state. It is happening a lot to the point it's alarming governors in other states. Florida has a big problem with New Yorkers too.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/rhode-island-police-troops-stopping-incoming-new-yorkers-force-quarantine-n1171106
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 28, 2020, 11:52:06 AM
Obviously you are not reading prior posts, nor can appreciate what the attached graphs showing new cases means.

BC there may no longer be any continual increase in terms of the amount of new cases going up significantly but they are not decreasing either. It looks like Italy for the meanwhile is stuck with a continual level of new cases each day it can't seem to reduce, that is problem for Italy. It could take a long while to work its way through in Italy causing the economy to crash and still hammer it's health service. Many Doctors & Nurses there contracting Coronavirus of recent.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 28, 2020, 12:00:13 PM
BC, isn't Italy providing citizens money for food like other Western nations are doing?

Yes, but like in the US the check is in the mail.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 28, 2020, 12:04:19 PM
BC there may no longer be any continual increase in terms of the amount of new cases going up significantly but they are not decreasing either. It looks like Italy for the meanwhile is stuck with a continual level of new cases each day it can't seem to reduce, that is problem for Italy. It could take a long while to work its way through in Italy causing the economy to crash and still hammer it's health service. Many Doctors & Nurses there contracting Coronavirus of recent.

Again, this is expected.  It is what everyone wants, the flattening of the curve.  If it went up, then shortly thereafter went down it would mean that containment efforts were not effective.

http://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/03/22/science/11SCI-VIRUS-CURVE1/11SCI-VIRUS-TRACKER1-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp

I expect this levelling off to run the next week or two, hopeful tailing off thereafter.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 28, 2020, 12:06:34 PM

Not true.

Guess you did not watch Cuomo answer the question if the president had spoken to him about the quarantine during his call today.  The reply was negative on that point, that no the topic of quarantine was not discussed.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 28, 2020, 12:19:07 PM
Yes, but like in the US the check is in the mail.

Sucks you haven't got it yet.  Since the American government approved the relief bill yesterday, Trump said everybody should get checks in three weeks. There will be extra money for those who are unemployed. In Washington State, after one files for unemployment, the first week is not paid so after applying, it will be a week and a half before they see their first check that will be boosted an additional $600 a week by the federal government. I trust the American government to deliver on time.

Many Doctors & Nurses there contracting Coronavirus of recent.


That is becoming a problem. Infected medical personnel are taken out of the battle or even worse, kills them. I read an article 40 doctors in Italy have died. NY has 2 medical personnel that have died already. Governments have not reported how many medical professionals became infected while on the job but I'm sure it's many times more than those who died.

Guess you did not watch Cuomo answer the question if the president had spoken to him about the quarantine during his call today.  The reply was negative on that point, that no the topic of quarantine was not discussed.


Because NY is the hotspot of the USA, Cuomo probably gets the first call of the day. After the Trump administration talks to other governors, he learns their problems and their problems are coming from NY the same way NY's problems came from Europe, not China.  After Trump learns of other States problems, he suggested a quarantine of NY to prevent New Yorkers from leaving. Cuomo can continue to manage his state the way he sees fit but Trump has an obligation to protect all States. The media's narrative makes it sound like Trump doesn't communicate and does things to piss off governors and you're drinking their Kool Aid

From the article below.

Trump suggested that the purpose of the federally mandated quarantine would be to limit people from the New York area spreading the virus to other parts of the country, but some states have already put into place restrictions on out of state visitors from places that are considered hotspots.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis is requiring people visiting from parts of Louisiana, New York, New Jersey and Connecticut to self-isolate for 14 days. Rhode Island Gov. Gina Raimondo also ordered that anyone who has moved from New York state to Rhode Island in the past two weeks must self-quarantine for 14 days. Massachusetts and Texas have instituted similar restrictions and some counties in North Carolina are considering putting up roadblocks to keep out visitors, unless they prove they have a home or job inside the county.


http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-considering-enforceable-quarantine-n-y-parts-n-j-connecticut-n1171186
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 28, 2020, 01:08:19 PM
Sucks you haven't got it yet.  Since the American government approved the relief bill yesterday, Trump said everybody should get checks in three weeks. There will be extra money for those who are unemployed. In Washington State, after one files for unemployment, the first week is not paid so after applying, it will be a week and a half before they see their first check that will be boosted an additional $600 a week by the federal government. I trust the American government to deliver on time.

Similar measures here.  Also announced that a half-billion or so will be distributed to local communities to distribute to those in need.

An aside, like my parents in the US, we'll be giving away our 'bonus' to those less fortunate.  I've already given a fair amount already to help a couple of immigrant families I don't even know well other than noting that they will likely be at the back of the line for .gov handouts.

Quote
That is becoming a problem. Infected medical personnel are taken out of the battle or even worse, kills them. I read an article 40 doctors in Italy have died. NY has 2 medical personnel that have died already. Governments have not reported how many medical professionals became infected while on the job but I'm sure it's many times more than those who died.


IIRC the count of health workers that have either died or are out sick is somewhere around 3000 so far.  Yes, working in a hospital is very risky, made even more so when protective gear is not available.  I expect across in the US thousands of healthcare workers are out.

Quote
Because NY is the hotspot of the USA, Cuomo probably gets the first call of the day. After the Trump administration talks to other governors, he learns their problems and their problems are coming from NY the same way NY's problems came from Europe, not China.  After Trump learns of other States problems, he suggested a quarantine of NY to prevent New Yorkers from leaving. Cuomo can continue to manage his state the way he sees fit but Trump has an obligation to protect all States. The media's narrative makes it sound like Trump doesn't communicate and does things to piss off governors and you're drinking their Kool Aid

According to Cuomo, Trump did not bring up the subject of quarantine in their call today.  Don't even have to ask Cuomo, just turn on the tv or change the channel for a few minutes.  It'll be on youtube soon as well.

[edit]  Here it is at the 49.27 mark

http://youtu.be/XKQcst4obkQ?t=2967
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 28, 2020, 01:11:45 PM
so, somehow the behavior of the women in the bunker has completely swung to the opposite direction, without me having any idea of why their attitudes have so suddenly changed...
maybe they are scared now

my daughters, instead of openly embracing pro-virus rebel ideology
now agree to be my “quarantined guests” in the bunker indefinitely
and promise to serve me in what ever capacity I ask them to


my wife’s girl friend has begun flirting with me,
she likes to swim topless, and when she comes out of the pool
 

Any chance of some topless pics of her Krim ;D or maybe a new bikini pic of your beautiful daughter to lighten the mood on here :D
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 28, 2020, 01:33:38 PM
According to Cuomo, Trump did not bring up the subject of quarantine in their call today.  Don't even have to ask Cuomo, just turn on the tv or change the channel for a few minutes.  It'll be on youtube soon as well.


Trump's decision came after talking to other governors about New Yorkers bringing problems to their states. Trump stopping New Yorkers from leaving NY is based off recommendations from other governors and will not impact anything Cuomo is doing for his State. Let's be happy Trump and Co is working long hours to solve the problem. The media writing stories to demoralize Trump and Co. hurts the nation more than helps if they get demoralized, the public loses faith in government, and if they have to waste an enormous amount of time to combat fake news. I do understand the media is still on an active mission to make him look bad so he can lose the next election. Everybody should be working together, Democrats, Republicans, citizens, businesses and the media. Too bad the media doesn't want to participate.

IIRC the count of health workers that have either died or are out sick is somewhere around 3000 so far.  Yes, working in a hospital is very risky, made even more so when protective gear is not available.  I expect across in the US thousands of healthcare workers are out.


Taking 3000 medical workers out of action is a tragedy for the short time they been fighting the virus. Anything less than a hazmat suit will not give 100% protection to medical workers but it's not practical to wear a hazmat suit and do the job. Also, most medical workers may not be wearing their protective gear properly. I remember training for wearing a chemical suit in the army and going into the gas chamber with the platoon. You'll know when someone didn't seal and wear it properly when they breathe some of that tear gas. Also, removing the suit is almost as important as properly wearing it. We had to remove it in a way none of the exterior of the suit touches our skin. A medical professional without proper training may remove their gear, get the virus on their skin and if they rub their eyes soon after before thoroughly washing their hands, they may infect themselves.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 28, 2020, 02:00:13 PM
Trump's decision came after talking to other governors about New Yorkers bringing problems to their states. Trump stopping New Yorkers from leaving NY is based off recommendations from other governors and will not impact anything Cuomo is doing for his State. Let's be happy Trump and Co is working long hours to solve the problem. The media writing stories to demoralize Trump and Co. hurts the nation more than helps if they get demoralized, the public loses faith in government, and if they have to waste an enormous amount of time to combat fake news. I do understand the media is still on an active mission to make him look bad so he can lose the next election. Everybody should be working together, Democrats, Republicans, citizens, businesses and the media. Too bad the media doesn't want to participate.

In a lot of other words, your statement below was false. JFTR

Not true.

Quote
Taking 3000 medical workers out of action is a tragedy for the short time they been fighting the virus. Anything less than a hazmat suit will not give 100% protection to medical workers but it's not practical to wear a hazmat suit and do the job. Also, most medical workers may not be wearing their protective gear properly. I remember training for wearing a chemical suit in the army and going into the gas chamber with the platoon. You'll know when someone didn't seal and wear it properly when they breathe some of that tear gas. Also, removing the suit is almost as important as properly wearing it. We had to remove it in a way none of the exterior of the suit touches our skin. A medical professional without proper training may remove their gear, get the virus on their skin and if they rub their eyes soon after before thoroughly washing their hands, they may infect themselves.

Billy, having been through the chemical/biological school at Redstone Arsenal with live chemical agents (not just tear gas) I am well aware of all this.  The issue is getting enough protective equipment, not just how to use it.  I'm pretty sure these folks on both side of the atlantic, facing similar difficulties getting PPE are doing their best to keep themselves from getting sick.  A mask is a mask, a gown is a gown, gloves are gloves.  We're not talking rocket science.  Having to reuse it is a problem, a big one.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 28, 2020, 02:23:48 PM
The issue is getting enough protective equipment, not just how to use it.  I'm pretty sure these folks on both side of the atlantic, facing similar difficulties getting PPE are doing their best to keep themselves from getting sick.  A mask is a mask, a gown is a gown, gloves are gloves.  We're not talking rocket science.  Having to reuse it is a problem, a big one.


Medical professionals who are working with infected patients should get the PPE. Those who work in other wings in the hospital do not need PPE. Cuomo said he's trying to secure N95 masks. Medical professionals will wear them with a false sense of security. "N95" is a government efficiency rating that means the mask blocks about 95 percent of particles that are 0.3 microns in size or larger. The overwhelming majority of water droplets are bigger than .3 microns but not all.

I don't know about Italy but Cuomo said NY has enough PPE for the short term. Of course there's deliveries to NY hospitals everyday to make sure that long term needs are met. There hasn't been enough virus related problems in NY yet to create a shortage.

Here's a fake news story saying Trump and Cuomo clashed. The media makes it sound like they are fighting.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-and-cuomo-clash-as-president-weighs-new-york-quarantine/ar-BB11PYRA?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 28, 2020, 02:44:05 PM
I don't know about Italy but Cuomo said NY has enough PPE for the short term. Of course there's deliveries to NY hospitals everyday to make sure that long term needs are met. There hasn't been enough virus related problems in NY yet to create a shortage.

Guess it's all fake news then.

http://www.google.com/search?biw=1981&bih=1187&tbm=nws&ei=58F_Xrj8I6v3qwHQlKW4Cg&q=nurses+new+york+hospital+ppe
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on March 28, 2020, 02:47:14 PM
U.S. military command teams in charge of protecting homeland security are being isolated in the infamous Cheyenne mountain bunker where they will remain 'sealed off' until the coronavirus pandemic passes

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8162937/Coronavirus-drives-army-command-teams-infamous-Cheyenne-mountain-bunker.html
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 28, 2020, 03:13:31 PM
Isn't it a bit unusual that Trump announces to the public he may quarantine several states today without even speaking to their governors about it? Says something like folks from NY are fleeing to infect FL. That is not the way to build unity or band the country together.  Instead, it creates a friend or foe environment.

This would escalate "stay at home" mitigation to a Wuhan lockdown.  Did Italy not attempt something similar? 

I agree with a policy directed at preventing infected people from traveling to a less infected area.  However, I am not sure it is legal.  And how could it be enforced?   I doubt one state can prevent entry of travelers from other states. 

Florida does not ban travelers from New York, yet the Governor issued a directive that entering New Yorkers must quarantine themselves in their residence for 14 days.    By the way, vacation rental business has been shuttered at many locations in Florida, so anyone coming here would be limited to visiting friends or family or staying in their second home.     

Your welcome to come to Florida,  How would that be enforced other than discovery and fine surrounding an incident?   


Quote
Trump is not even trying to act like a leader, he is keeping up his blame game instead.

Your first three sentences were valid questions to ponder.  Your closing sentence makes you sound like Moby. 

I don't see how this blames anyone.  Instead it supports stay at home.   Its the Democrats who are blaming Trump or Fox news.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 28, 2020, 03:26:25 PM
it was the devil himself who came up with the idea
to get all Christians to go to an Easter Church Service less than 10 days from now on Easter Sunday...
“yeah, i’m going”, I lied to the rednecks standing 6 feet behind me
I think they heard me, but it’s hard to shout through the mask...
hopefully, my encouraging words will convince them and their families to attend their Easter Service

payback for Easter blood libel MFers,
karma is WAY more than just a mere bitch, you cucks
this IS Helter Skelter time
not Howdy Doody make believe time,
so I will follow my beliefs
and gladly encourage you to follow yours...

the few rednecks who aren't complete dumb phuques should listen up
watch for signs of social disorder in Queens and Brooklyn
it’ll happen there first
when it happens there, you’ll have about 4 weeks before it happens in your cities, wherever you are...

understand...
remember the Rodney King riots in LA?
we're in for a long, hot summer baby!!!
fire watch time


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 28, 2020, 03:29:14 PM

Billy, having been through the chemical/biological school at Redstone Arsenal with live chemical agents (not just tear gas) ....

Impressive. All I experienced was CS gas at Ft. Bragg's ROTC summer training.  Some 82nd Airborne  and Special Forces sergeants showed up that day for a good laugh watching college kids  retch and recover after being given a full dose.    We also had to inject our thigh with some hypodermic and show sarge the needle.  I popped mine into my canteen.  Mama did not raise an idiot.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 28, 2020, 03:32:46 PM
U.S. military command teams in charge of protecting homeland security are being isolated in the infamous Cheyenne mountain bunker where they will remain 'sealed off' until the coronavirus pandemic passes

That will not be enough to repulse the invading Ruskies predicted by Krimster.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 28, 2020, 03:39:46 PM
Russia does not give a sh&t about the USA anymore...
they know you're "toast"
Russia and Iran care about Saudi Arabia...
and Russia cares about control over pipelines to the West
Russia will also militarily occupy most of Ukraine sometime before 2024...
the EU will totally capitulate to Russia
even China

you boyz is a bunch o' wimps with your CS...
my basic training kept a whole squad together in an airtight bunker
with CS candles burning so thick you couldn't see the hand in front of your face
then they had us take our gas masks off
and suddenly you feel like your face, lungs, nose and throat are on fire
and they made us stay there cramped in the bunker, until I actually thought I was gonna die
and then they suddenly opened the bunker door and I almost got trampled
by over a dozen running screaming soldiers...

good freakin times those were
sheeeet, young people today...


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 28, 2020, 03:44:35 PM
This would escalate "stay at home" mitigation to a Wuhan lockdown.  Did Italy not attempt something similar? 

Yes, it is in force.  Unless it is an extremely urgent matter or going to work in a critical or necessary job like a grocery store, health worker etc one can't go outside the town limits where you live.

Rome is seeing not only a levelling off of new cases but a decrease as well the last couple days.

I am convinced the lockdown is having a very positive effect.  Imagine Lazio, the second most populated region that includes Rome with the same problems as Milan. Lazio has a total of 2300 cases.  Lombardia (Milan) almost 40,000 cases.

I don't object strict quarantines at all.  What I do object to is announcing by tweet and off-hand remarks to the press without first discussing the matter with the parties involved.  It is a self-aggrandizing technique often used by weak men to puff themselves up a bit.  Sorta like grabbing pussy.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 28, 2020, 04:07:56 PM
Impressive.

No, it really sucked. Being in the hot Alabama sun in June for a few hours duct-taped in a heavy full-body rubber suit and mask ain't fun.  Was worse for those that ignored advice to eat only a very light breakfast.  Some puked and had to be quickly dragged out of the area to be fully scrubbed down and decontaminated before being able to take off their masks filled to the eyeballs with vomit, a process that takes some very long and even dangerous minutes without a breath of air.  We lucky ones only had to empty the sweat and urine out of our boots.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 28, 2020, 04:11:01 PM
Guess it's all fake news then.

http://www.google.com/search?biw=1981&bih=1187&tbm=nws&ei=58F_Xrj8I6v3qwHQlKW4Cg&q=nurses+new+york+hospital+ppe

If you watched Cuomo today, you would've heard him say there's a lot of sensationalism reported. Read the articles in your link carefully. There is no shortage of PPE. It's the opinion of some medical personnel there's a shortage since they were told to reuse PPE. Masks/filters can be used more than once. Do you change the filters on your car everyday?  CDC allows medical personnel to reuse certain PPE. CDC says to discard N95 respirators contaminated with blood, respiratory or nasal secretions, or other bodily fluids from patients. So in my opinion, if a medical personnel is working in a wing of a hospital and their mask remains clean, they can reuse it. CDC also says do not use the mask more than the manufacture's recommendations. Maybe Cuomo is covering his butt because he failed to get enough supplies? I'm not a fan of Cuomo so I checked the CDC website below that says masks can be reused so he's not wrong.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/hcwcontrols/recommendedguidanceextuse.html

I don't object strict quarantines at all.  What I do object to is announcing by tweet and off-hand remarks to the press without first discussing the matter with the parties involved. 


Some people complain government is slow to inform them or doesn't inform them at all. Trump tells everybody instantly by way of Tweet what he's doing. Cuomo has access to Trump's Tweets too. Trump talked to a lot of governors who want New Yorkers to stay in NY or it'll be bad for our nation. Trump mentioned he is thinking about quarantining NY. You criticize him for not talking to Cuomo but he didn't act and will talk to Cuomo before he acts. By Tweeting, he is informing the nations to prepare for an action he may take in the future.

I agree with a policy directed at preventing infected people from traveling to a less infected area.  However, I am not sure it is legal.  And how could it be enforced?   I doubt one state can prevent entry of travelers from other states. 


Legal? Who cares if it's legal? States right now around NY are mobilizing their National Guard and police to stop New Yorkers from coming in. Who's going to sue those states saying it's their right to jeopardize the lives of the rest of the nation? Trump could mobilize federal law enforcement or military. Most smart people understand the reasons certain actions are taken and will comply.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 28, 2020, 04:19:32 PM

I don't object strict quarantines at all.  What I do object to is announcing by tweet and off-hand remarks to the press without first discussing the matter with the parties involved.  It is a self-aggrandizing technique often used by weak men to puff themselves up a bit.  Sorta like grabbing pussy.


So Trump has again agitated you and some New Yorkers.  What's new! 

You can not accuse Trump of penalizing blue states, because bright red Louisiana is escalating rapidly into the same critical situation as New York.  Of course,  the mayor of New Orleans is blaming Trump for not issuing red flags (Mardi Gras occurred when CDC thought the virus a low risk).   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 28, 2020, 04:22:07 PM
Billy,

Since you can read instructions, maybe you should go volunteer at one of the busy hospitals. Heck, go direct one.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 28, 2020, 04:25:26 PM
So Trump has again agitated you and some New Yorkers.  What's new! 

No, not agitated at all. Disappointed, yes.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Patagonie on March 28, 2020, 04:26:36 PM
HiGuys gloves with social distance is the most important.

Quarantine shouldn't be announced early but at the last minute.
It is known that 1.2 million of people from Paris left the capital. But many used trains or bus. So I let you imagine how many cases has resulted from this...
We have not still got the maximum peak but in USA you are at the very beginning of the pandemy.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 28, 2020, 04:36:07 PM
THE EFFECT OF WARM WEATHER

Some have talked about the possibility of the virus slowing come warmer months, just like ordinary flu. 

Based on what's happening in Florida. probably not   Weather is in the 80's every day, and yet the infection is growing.  Statewide accumulative totals:

March 23:  13,094 tests with 1,171 positive cases. 
March 28:  43,071 tests with 4,038 positive cases. 

BTW, total of 507 hospitalizations and 56 deaths.  And the most cases, deaths, etc have occurred in balmy Dade County (Miami).

New York, if you're listening, the solution is not Florida.     The only benefit it seems is humid air if you become infected and have breathing problems. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 28, 2020, 04:45:23 PM
No, not agitated at all. Disappointed, yes.

BC, you're trying really hard to find something Trump did wrong all the time. Today you're upset with Trump because he took action to quarantine NY without consulting with Cuomo. Fake News! Trump didn't take action quarantining NY. He Tweeted he's thinking about it. Cuomo can give him a call if he disagrees. I'm sure they will talk before a federal quarantine is implemented but my guess is the States surrounding NY will take enough action against New Yorkers and Trump doesn't need to act.

HiGuys gloves with social distance is the most important.

Quarantine shouldn't be announced early but at the last minute.
It is known that 1.2 million of people from Paris left the capital. But many used trains or bus. So I let you imagine how many cases has resulted from this...
We have not still got the maximum peak but in USA you are at the very beginning of the pandemy.


Every nation will have to deal with the virus. No way to prevent deaths and no way to stop the virus. So the goal is to slow it down without destroying too much of the economy and lives. This virus may be seasonal or comes back hard in cycles and the cycle could be every couple of months since it showed up in nations in January and two months later it's at pandemic levels.

THE EFFECT OF WARM WEATHER

Some have talked about the possibility of the virus slowing come warmer months, just like ordinary flu. 

Based on what's happening in Florida. probably not   Weather is in the 80's every day, and yet the infection is growing.  Statewide accumulative totals:

March 23:  13,094 tests with 1,171 positive cases. 
March 28:  43,071 tests with 4,038 positive cases. 

BTW, total of 507 hospitalizations and 56 deaths.  And the most cases, deaths, etc have occurred in balmy Dade County (Miami).

New York, if you're listening, the solution is not Florida.     The only benefit it seems is humid air if you become infected and have breathing problems. 

Three weeks ago WHO said it's false hope the virus will disappear in the summer. People need to remember this is related to a cold virus, not the flu virus which is seasonal.

http://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/06/its-a-false-hope-coronavirus-will-disappear-in-the-summer-like-the-flu-who-says.html
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 28, 2020, 04:49:14 PM
This is long, but an excellent interview with a Korean expert on infectious disease.  It puts in stark terms why this virus is a big issue.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAk7aX5hksU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAk7aX5hksU)


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: based_zoomer1997 on March 28, 2020, 04:54:55 PM
Anyone know if Belarus has a travel ban on Americans or anyone else? I know Ukraine and Russia do at the moment so I thought Belarus might be a potential backup since it sounds like they've been hit the least hard and have the least lockdown measures of anyone in Europe. Can't find any info online though.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 28, 2020, 04:57:42 PM
Billy

It is you that is trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

Did you see the word “may” in my post?

Do you know the meaning of disappointed?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 28, 2020, 04:59:29 PM
Anyone know if Belarus has a travel ban on Americans or anyone else? I know Ukraine and Russia do at the moment so I thought Belarus might be a potential backup since it sounds like they've been hit the least hard and have the least lockdown measures of anyone in Europe. Can't find any info online though.

Effective March 26, any traveller from a country affected by COVID-19 must self isolate for 14 days upon entering Belarus.  Keep in mind, Belarus has a security apparatus in place which can ensure this is enforced.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on March 28, 2020, 05:39:49 PM
Anyone know if Belarus has a travel ban on Americans or anyone else? I know Ukraine and Russia do at the moment so I thought Belarus might be a potential backup since it sounds like they've been hit the least hard and have the least lockdown measures of anyone in Europe. Can't find any info online though.

How can you have such thoughts? For instance, how do you get into Belarus, where is connecting flight from..…..certainly not from USA.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on March 28, 2020, 05:42:28 PM
Effective March 26, any traveller from a country affected by COVID-19 must self isolate for 14 days upon entering Belarus.  Keep in mind, Belarus has a security apparatus in place which can ensure this is enforced.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

So I guess anyone from Libya cannot go to Belarus since they are infected with COVID-19. One case reported!!!! )))
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 28, 2020, 06:15:22 PM
Billy

It is you that is trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

Do you know the meaning of disappointed?


The American people will judge next election and either I or you will learn the meaning of disappointment. I have an idea for Trump. Due to the virus crisis, he should use his executive powers to postpone the election till 2024 for everybody's safety.

Anyone know if Belarus has a travel ban on Americans or anyone else? I know Ukraine and Russia do at the moment so I thought Belarus might be a potential backup since it sounds like they've been hit the least hard and have the least lockdown measures of anyone in Europe. Can't find any info online though.

With mandatory 14 day quarantines for foreigners happening in many nations, flight restrictions being added on a daily basis, flights being cancelled often, the possibility of not coming home, not to mention there's a killer virus running loose, I have to ask, how hot is the girl?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on March 28, 2020, 06:19:39 PM

With mandatory 14 day quarantines for foreigners happening in many nations, flight restrictions being added on a daily basis, flights being cancelled often, the possibility of not coming home, not to mention there's a killer virus running loose, I have to ask, how hot is the girl?

The countries he mentioned are closed...no entry for foreigners....so NO quarantine needed.

Maybe this girl is so hot...….. she is a COVID-20
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 28, 2020, 06:26:27 PM
Apparently Ukraine has recently entered into a lockdown too similar to the UK with just Supermarkets & pharmacies open. Many businesses forced to shut, so I wonder what that will do for the Ukrainian economy. Some people will be able to work from home there but guessing many will be unemployed as a result and will have to claim the dole at its measly rate out there.

If that's not enough it looks like thousands of Ukrainian workers have flooded to the border from EU countries such as Poland to get back into Ukraine before they close the border, it looks like mayhem there:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rt.com/news/484331-ukraine-poland-border-coronavirus/amp/

So Ukraine will have even more workers that it won't need and Ukrainians that were sending money home at a good rate that no longer will.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 28, 2020, 06:32:08 PM
Pound strong against the ghrivna and rising, nearly 35 grivna to the pound.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 28, 2020, 06:53:55 PM
good news peeps...

curve is starting to flatten on Corona infections...
the social distancing is beginning to have some effect...
we're still growing, but, up until today, we were growing FASTER and FASTER each day....
but today, we just kinda slowed down to just plain 'ole FASTER now...
but this is only the first day that the rate of infection decreased instead of increased....
let's give it a few more days to see if it is a trend


if the rate of infection increase continues to decrease
then it peaks, and then infection rate drops
and will drop to some lower number, say 10% of peak
and will stay at this plateau and continue
until either quarantine ends or flu season restarts it, or both at the same time
and it takes off again

then we go on to the next peak
by then 1 out of 5 have already been touched by this virus
and it's still raging just as strong as ever

and there will be more and more peaks
and more and more new strains of the virus
at least one or two new ones every year
and your immunity to a particular strain will last about 3 years

I wish I could buy life insurance on every single American over the age of 60...
the only problem is that by the end of next year there will not be a single solvent insurance company of any kind....

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 28, 2020, 07:29:50 PM

Legal? Who cares if it's legal? States right now around NY are mobilizing their National Guard and police to stop New Yorkers from coming in.
Fascinating how New Yorkers are becoming the new Okies.   Perhaps soon us Californian's will be treated the same way! 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on March 28, 2020, 07:51:05 PM
Belarus might be a potential backup since it sounds like they've been hit the least hard

Do you not understand that countries such a Belarus simply do not tell the truth ???????
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 28, 2020, 08:19:33 PM

Scientists now detect 8 strains of the coronavirus running loose and there may be other strains out there they haven't detected yet.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/8-strains-coronavirus-circling-globe-182338255.html

Putin said with near certainty that Russia can defeat the virus in 2-3 months time.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-comes-kremlin-010407610.html
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 28, 2020, 08:35:37 PM
Scientists now detect 8 strains of the coronavirus running loose and there may be other strains out there they haven't detected yet.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/8-strains-coronavirus-circling-globe-182338255.html

Putin said with near certainty that Russia can defeat the virus in 2-3 months time.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-comes-kremlin-010407610.html
Brazil's leader Bolsonaro
Brazilian President Bolsonaro suggested his people are naturally immune to the coronavirus, claiming they can swim in sewage and 'nothing happens'

Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro suggested without evidence that Brazilians have a natural immunity for the coronavirus.

He said on Thursday Brazilians "never catch anything" — adding that they can swim in sewage "and nothing happens."

Bolsonaro has been criticized for not taking the coronavirus outbreak seriously, and ignored doctors' advice to self-isolate even after officials close to him tested positive. At least 77 people have died of COVID-19 in Brazil so far..
...

 http://news.yahoo.com/brazilian-president-bolsonaro-suggested-people-140144952.html   (http://news.yahoo.com/brazilian-president-bolsonaro-suggested-people-140144952.html)

Fathertime! 

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: based_zoomer1997 on March 28, 2020, 10:19:25 PM
Effective March 26, any traveller from a country affected by COVID-19 must self isolate for 14 days upon entering Belarus.  Keep in mind, Belarus has a security apparatus in place which can ensure this is enforced.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

Thanks, where did you get that info? I'd like to keep updated.

How can you have such thoughts? For instance, how do you get into Belarus, where is connecting flight from..…..certainly not from USA.
It would go to London first, I wouldn't be going until June though, if things have hopefully calmed down by then.

With mandatory 14 day quarantines for foreigners happening in many nations, flight restrictions being added on a daily basis, flights being cancelled often, the possibility of not coming home, not to mention there's a killer virus running loose, I have to ask, how hot is the girl?

Lol, well I'm counting on the quarantines being lifted by June, if they're not I'll cancel of course. I figure the threat of catching the virus in America is a lot higher than it would be there too.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 29, 2020, 01:38:45 AM
The American people will judge next election and either I or you will learn the meaning of disappointment. I have an idea for Trump. Due to the virus crisis, he should use his executive powers to postpone the election till 2024 for everybody's safety.

His term ends on Jan 20 2021.

I expect absentee ballots and extension of the early voting period would be the last resort.  Not really bad ideas.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 29, 2020, 04:18:23 AM
Apparently roughly 71 percent of deaths in Italy from Coronavirus are men, a staggeringly high proportion. Again globally more men are catching and dieing of Coronavirus than women:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/26/men-are-much-more-likely-to-die-from-coronavirus-but-why

Perhaps all us men should just self isolate, lol.

Deaths have passed 10,000 in total in Italy today.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 29, 2020, 04:28:44 AM
Should be interesting to see whether Ukraine bringing in its lockdown earlier than many western nations have done will make for a smaller outbreak:

http://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/covid-19-death-toll-rises-to-9-in-ukraine-with-418-cases.html

So, so far 418 cases, whether that is too late already to avoid the same as in the west remains to be seen.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 29, 2020, 05:10:50 AM
Trench,

More men smoked..

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 29, 2020, 05:30:58 AM
Trench,

More men smoked..

19 percent of women to 28 percent of men, but around twice the number of men die as women. It could be due to some anomaly in the statistics such as more older men smoking than younger. The researchers in the article seemed to think that men have in general not as great an immune system as women.

If it is down more to smoking then fortunately I have never smoked ;D
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 29, 2020, 07:11:10 AM
Been thinking that the main issue in Ukraine is probably going to be the economy more than anything. If the lockdown goes on a while and it's workers kept out of the EU from working then that's probably going to be quite an economic toll for the population. That and the conflict still going on in the east of Ukraine. Back to being locked into Ukraine with the economy going back downhill I would presume. With western men not coming in on flights that's probably going to be another economic hit.

I'm guessing this virus crises will have the effect in Europe of returning many people to their respective nations, permanently for most perhaps.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 29, 2020, 07:45:15 AM
Been thinking

No... you haven't

The end !
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 29, 2020, 07:54:51 AM
No... you haven't

The end !

Hmmn? You ok Mobers?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 29, 2020, 08:08:43 AM
A true story ..

In the UK Registered Medical Doctors are regulated by the GMC .


One of my biz partners is a retired Surgeon. He got an email from the GMC on Thursday, asking him to fill in a questionnaire as to what he'd like to do in the crisis..

He was a Gynaecologist and didn't know how to answer the question option re dealing with patients  :  'face to face' .. ?  ;)


He answered, truthfully,  'other' -  that he had been used to, "addressing the nether regions" and was sent an email by return  that he was ( once more)  a practising practitioner !..

I wonder what role he'll be given ....?



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 29, 2020, 08:54:25 AM
Apparently roughly 71 percent of deaths in Italy from Coronavirus are men, a staggeringly high proportion. Again globally more men are catching and dieing of Coronavirus than women:


When this is over, if you want to have the lion's share of women, you got to be strong, real strong. You're going to have to battle your fellow man over food and women. The man that can feed women and kids will get a harem. The weak man will get beaten and cast aside with other single sex starved men. It'll be like they are in prison together. Do you want that? Get strong. Be ready to rip off heads with your bare hands.

Bad news. WHO says there is evidence the virus can be transmitted in areas with hot and humid climates.

http://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters

Still wondering why Germany's death count and case rate is very low compared to Italy and Spain's.  Are they counting different or their health care system is much better? What's the difference of a patient in Germany or Italy laying in bed on a ventilator? Just their nationality. I have a cousin that acquired her PhD in Germany. During her time in Germany she travelled to Africa and got sick. Came home and German doctors didn't know what she got sick from and prescribed her the wrong medicine and she got sicker. She immediately flew to America and the doctors quickly identified what she got and fixed her right up. She's one story but she's a believer the American medical system is better than Germany's after experiencing theirs. She's also a Trump hater.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 29, 2020, 09:52:05 AM
Not only does Germany have a good deal more hospital resources per capita, but they are very orderly, not only with following instructions but have plans to handle everything. The health authorities have been testing, tracking down and isolating for quite a while now. A somewhat similar approach as in S. Korea. They keep their facilities and staff well trained, a good part because of their vocational education system that is very good.  One can expect things to be done very precisely.  Early on saw reports that testing for coronavirus was not being done posthumously as they do in Italy.  The numbers are rising fast though, both for infections and death.  Still too early to draw conclusions.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on March 29, 2020, 10:05:54 AM
Not only does Germany have a good deal more hospital resources per capita, but they are very orderly, not only with following instructions but have plans to handle everything.

Remember what Mussolini said when comparing what he had to deal with regarding Italian people and what Hitler could count on with German people.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 29, 2020, 10:12:07 AM
Early on saw reports that testing for coronavirus was not being done posthumously as they do in Italy. 


Italy has probably been better than any country pertaining to accuracy on counting deaths. Too many deaths can be viewed as bad management by government and health care leaders. Also, a high death ration can lead to panic. There's pressure to keep the death count low in many nations.

I seriously doubt Germany's health care system is much more superior than Italy's when it comes to the virus. There's no treatment for the virus so all medical professionals can do is lay a patient in bed, slap on a ventilator and give the patient medicine to relieve the pain and lower their temperature. The patient must beat the virus with their own antibodies. Germans have superior immune systems? Don't think so.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 29, 2020, 10:13:25 AM
When this is over, if you want to have the lion's share of women, you got to be strong, real strong. You're going to have to battle your fellow man over food and women. The man that can feed women and kids will get a harem. The weak man will get beaten and cast aside with other single sex starved men. It'll be like they are in prison together. Do you want that? Get strong. Be ready to rip off heads with your bare hands.

Bad news. WHO says there is evidence the virus can be transmitted in areas with hot and humid climates.

http://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters

Still wondering why Germany's death count and case rate is very low compared to Italy and Spain's.  Are they counting different or their health care system is much better? What's the difference of a patient in Germany or Italy laying in bed on a ventilator? Just their nationality. I have a cousin that acquired her PhD in Germany. During her time in Germany she travelled to Africa and got sick. Came home and German doctors didn't know what she got sick from and prescribed her the wrong medicine and she got sicker. She immediately flew to America and the doctors quickly identified what she got and fixed her right up. She's one story but she's a believer the American medical system is better than Germany's after experiencing theirs. She's also a Trump hater.

Some have put infection rate down to culture. Italians hug and kiss a lot, Germans don't know what that is, lol ;D

Currently, the worst situation is:

Italy
Spain
France
Germany

France also does a fair bit of kissing on greeting but just the females I think, Spain probably also does a bit of that.

The different strains map you showed earlier showed the UK as having a different strain to mainland Europe, so our virus wants to free from the EU also :D

That all said I get the impression there is a nature to this virus that means it is a bit worse in some climates than others, that it spreads more virulently in some climates. I think in general it will eventually spread throughout as it seems to be doing no matter what the climate. It is known that germs spread more in hot temperatures until it gets too hot for them to survive. Italy is hit and dry, mostly though I think the north is supposed to have an area of tropical climate but maybe that is not significant.

South America I guess is hot & humid so does humidity mean it does not spread as much there? Maybe.

I think here in the UK we aren't suffering as bad as Italy was at the same stage in fact some graphs peg us a bit behind them. I get the impression our climate has a slight dampening effect on the virus, not a lot but a bit. I think it's interesting to note that Spain & Italy are fairing worse than France & Germany and each couple have similar climates but different to the other couple.

I don't necessarily see it as bad news as it may mean it goes around once but is not really that seasonal so once all the strains ebb away and medicines brought out hopefully it will be done with. The fact that so far at least it doesn't change/mutate much has got to be good news as it will make tackling it easier instead of 'oh it's changed again and this strain is so much different from the other' sort of thing.

Yep, well I'm guessing it will be mostly old men passing on so I'm not sure having a harem of old women will appeal much to me ;)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 29, 2020, 10:17:45 AM
No, not agitated at all. Disappointed, yes.

The substance of Trump's opinion to quarantine New York, etc. was not only valid, it was consistent with the widely accepted policies of "stay at home"  and "self-isolation of infected."

The style of how it was delivered and the "devil in the details"  gave the opportunity to criticize it.  And some anti-Trumpers leaped.  It reminded me of the cry of "racism" against Trump's January directive to ban foreigners who had traveled from China, a directive now viewed in retrospect as both positive and significant.

We should examine the appropriateness of Trump's ideas about how to fight the virus from the Federal perspective, knowing the state and local governments are responsible for fighting the public health battles.   Even more important is Federal government's assistance in replenishing medical supplies.

Nevertheless, we need to differentiate  style vs. substance.  For those who dwell on Trump's style, and ignore substance, I assert you are not helping the war effort.   

This especially applies to expressed aspirations as well.   A message of optimistic hope from our leader is better than pessimism.   After Pearl Harbor, the successes progressively grew from Doolittle's raid to Coral Sea to Midway Island to Guadalcanal to ....Parallels  will come with COVID-19. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 29, 2020, 10:39:39 AM
TRIAGE AT FEDERAL LEVEL?


The substance of Trump's opinion to quarantine New York, etc. was not only valid, it was consistent with the widely accepted policies of "stay at home"  and "self-isolation of infected."

I forgot to mention the concept of a quarantine was certainly appropriate given that 56% of the nation's cases each day  were originating from the NYC area.

Other issues will be prompted by the differences among the states with regard to the growth of new cases.   Consider the distribution of ventilators.  If a national shortfall indeed occurs, do we spread the shortfall proportionately among all states?   Or is it first come, first served, i. e., once New York State gets it request for 30,000 additional respirators, other states may have a proportionally larger shortfall?

This is akin to triage at the national level.  Sam Houston chose not to rescue the Alamo, thereby giving Texas more time to prepare for Santa Anna.  Houston lost the battle but won the war.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 29, 2020, 10:50:11 AM
Some have put infection rate down to culture. Italians hug and kiss a lot, Germans don't know what that is, lol ;D

Currently, the worst situation is:

Italy
Spain
France
Germany

France also does a fair bit of kissing on greeting but just the females I think, Spain probably also does a bit of that.


A culture that hugs and kisses often can increase infection rate but that doesn't affect death rate. For every 9 Italians that are infected, 6 Germans are infected. Not even double yet Italy has over 20 times more deaths than Germany. Does anybody know if German hospitals are almost as full as Italy's?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 29, 2020, 11:08:16 AM
A culture that hugs and kisses often can increase infection rate but that doesn't affect death rate. For every 9 Italians that are infected, 6 Germans are infected. Not even double yet Italy has over 20 times more deaths than Germany. Does anybody know if German hospitals are almost as full as Italy's?

Really Silly ( Fake News) BillyB

SURELY, you've been to Germany ?

It is considered rude ( in normal circumstances) not to shake hands ...

Italians have't been 'cuddling' for nearly two weeks, Germany has has social distancing in place for a lessor time ..

NO, they aren't as full  - surprised your mate Google / Bing / Yahoo isn't keeping you up to date .. The Germans are taking ICU / ITU patients from neighbouring nations like France and Italy
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 29, 2020, 11:11:33 AM
Gator,

There is a reason why all the playbooks insist on one unified message.  A part of creating a unified message that the populace can understand is to discuss the matter at hand with all the stakeholders and create that message.

Trump is doing it for his own benefit, but ok as you say that is Trump.  It is not however helping matters.  Here and most other places in the world we have one message and one official messenger.  The political spectacle is for all practical purposes inexistent here which is unusual for Italy.

In any case, I think it is far too late for a US lockdown to have much effect. The unruly mentality we have is not conducive to such. To be effective it has to be done as early as possible and nationwide. All one can do is hope or pray if that is your thing, that every city and town in the US doesn't become the next NYC not once, but twice or more times. 

Meanwhile, the lockdown here will be extended but folks see continued progress with a decent prognosis that the number of daily infections will fall later in the coming week.

One picture pretty much says it all as far as the US goes.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 29, 2020, 11:35:29 AM
Gator,

There is a reason why all the playbooks insist on one unified message.  A part of creating a unified message that the populace can understand is to discuss the matter at hand with all the stakeholders and create that message.   

Whatever message Trump gives will be attacked by the Democrats .... 

Correction:  Whatever message Trump gives will be attacked by the some Democrats focused more on politics and the media. 


Quote
In any case, I think it is far too late for a US lockdown to have much effect.  The unruly mentality we have is not conducive to such.

Its too late for NYC, yet even in NYC continued social distancing is a necessity and will help. 


Quote
One picture pretty much says it all as far as the US goes.

Number of passengers are well below capacity, yet you show a real problem.  I say real because of what Desantis reported yesterday, prompting him to ask Trump to ban New Yorkers, etc.:     

"Speaking during a press conference Saturday afternoon, DeSantis said a traveler who had previously tested positive for COVID-19 was on a flight from a New York City airport to Jacksonville International Airport on Friday when he was intercepted at an airport checkpoint and taken to a local hospital." 

How many went undetected? 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 29, 2020, 12:02:34 PM
Germany has a more developed economy than Italy, German engineering and likely science is generally thought well off. German people tend to be in general very methodical, technically minded and controlled emotions. Italians tend to lose it emotionally at the slightest thing, prone to illogical outbursts. Italians possibly also lack the ability to organise efficiently on the whole where for Germans it's one of their foremost positive traits, generally.

Just look at how the German car industry has come to be dominant in Europe. Look at WWII also, the Germans were very effective, the Italians very ineffective. Germany had to help out Italy in its entanglements in the war, Italians lost virtually every battle, lol. So it could come down to cultural matters and overall competence at being able to organise effectively.

Take this crises for instance. Some people got their arse in gear early on, organised early, determined what was needed and when, provisioned themselves and were prepared. They recognised the threat, others did not and/or could not organise and prepare themselves. Some wallies even went abroad on holiday as others were flying home to get back in before the gates such or to escape from places like Italy.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 29, 2020, 12:11:24 PM
Another apparent reason is Germany is testing for Coronavirus far more so a lot of mild cases are appearing in the figures. This will skew the figures into looking like far fewer die. Whereas other countries just include those cases that come forward which are of course the serious cases since they don't then know about the mild cases to include them in the figures.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 29, 2020, 12:35:22 PM
Germany has a more developed economy than Italy, German engineering and likely science is generally thought well off. German people tend to be in general very methodical, technically minded and controlled emotions. Italians tend to lose it emotionally at the slightest thing, prone to illogical outbursts. Italians possibly also lack the ability to organise efficiently on the whole where for Germans it's one of their foremost positive traits, generally.

Jeez, the Trench 'guide to why DE  is behind the curve, compared to IT'.. because 'the DE economy is more developed' )))))




Trench, you DO realise that the powerhouse of the Italian economy IS the north .. where they make the cars, have all the expensive fashion houses ?

Where was the epicentre of the Italian outbreak ?....


Don't 'think' ...

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 29, 2020, 12:38:44 PM
Gator,

Trump does not even stay on message with his own team.  This is the root of the problem. 
 
He has to play the role of a quarterback, to make sure the play is successful but not necessarily call the strategy which is developed in concert with coaches on the sidelines that have more information at hand.

He is not a team player, never has been never will be.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 29, 2020, 12:50:25 PM
Its too late for NYC, yet even in NYC continued social distancing is a necessity and will help.

It may help, heck I hope it does for the sake of those dealing with trying to save lives.  It does, however, leave the virus to roam at will, coming back again and again.  It only takes one person to cause a new hotspot undetected, amongst those that strictly followed the rules and remained not infected. Have to remember the vast majority of the population will not be immune until a vaccine is available which is still a big question mark as to 'if' and 'when'.

The national lockdown strategy lets the fire die out.  Thereafter, those entering will need to have a known status. Without it, the fire will burn and burn and burn here and there until the forest is consumed.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 29, 2020, 01:09:20 PM

Wife has me disinfecting my phone every time I come home. She makes a good point of what's the sense of washing hands when we touch a phone that may have a virus on it afterwards.

Her nursing teacher working at the VA hospital says medical professionals spend an hour getting checked out and to put their PPE gear on before being allowed in the hospital and going to work.

A Ukrainian friend of my wife said 8 members of her family in Massachusetts have the virus. They all live in the same house.

Gas prices continue to go down. Some places in America gas can be had for less than $1.23 a gallon(3.8L)

http://www.gasbuddy.com/GasPriceMap?lat=38.822395&lng=-96.591588&z=4
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 29, 2020, 01:11:31 PM
Thanks, where did you get that info? I'd like to keep updated.


I read it in a Russian newspaper the day it was announced.


I suspect you could find the information on the US State Department website.


This post was composed without the aid of google.



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 29, 2020, 01:13:34 PM
Whatever message Trump gives will be attacked by the Democrats .... 

Correction:  Whatever message Trump gives will be attacked by the some Democrats focused more on politics and the media.

Spot on! BC is the male equivalent of Kathy Griffin (http://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2020-03-26/kathy-griffin-coronavirus-test?_amp=true). Guaranteed he’s hoping upon hope US death rate would pass his beloved Italy so he can get the hopeful opportunity of being able to say ‘I told You so!’

You would think in times like this people would at least give it a rest for a while. Man, I hope Trump wins the next election so BC can squirm for another 4 years.

BC, Italy had suffered over 10k dead despite the wonderful health care system you. Best you pay attention to that because the infection is spreading southward out there.

As for what he’s making a big deal of, quarantining NY/NJ, Cuomo was trying to be coy of not understanding the need of containing New Yorkers is BS. He mandated forced containment of New Rochelle less than a month ago himself.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 29, 2020, 01:16:23 PM
GQ,

Obviously, you have not been reading my posts.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 29, 2020, 01:21:37 PM
GQ,

Obviously, you have not been reading my posts.

BC-

What’s happening the world over is unprecedented. No country was prepared to tackle the magnitude of a crisis in this proportion. To constantly trot your silly political jive for whatever reason you believe it justified is just moronic.

Did you even read Hillary’s latest tweet? She would’ve been president if not Trump.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 29, 2020, 01:25:46 PM
(http://cdn.creators.com/1054/275185/275185_image.jpg[img])http://cdn.creators.com/1054/275228/275228_image.jpg[/img]


(http://cloudinary.cagle.com/image/upload/cs_srgb,w_600/cartoons/236848.png)


(http://cloudinary.cagle.com/image/upload/cs_srgb,w_600/cartoons/236854.png)


(http://cdn.creators.com/218/275239/275239_image.jpg)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 29, 2020, 01:27:05 PM
BC-

What’s happening the world over is unprecedented. No country was prepared to tackle the magnitude of a crisis in this proportion. To constantly trot your silly political jive for whatever reason you believe it justified is just moronic.

Did you even read Hillary’s latest tweet? She would’ve been president if not Trump.

What's 'moronic' is suggesting the Presidents flip-flops have anything to do with politics ..

As BC suggested, he's clearly not in control, not a team player ... the nut-job is screwing with lives..

You guys should have been staying at home - not on the f'n golf course 

Jeez, it's not like you've not had enough warnings from the mistakes of other nations
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 29, 2020, 01:32:10 PM
BC-

What’s happening the world over is unprecedented. No country was prepared to tackle the magnitude of a crisis in this proportion.

No doubt there.  Have I posted anything to the contrary?

Quote
To constantly trot your silly political jive for whatever reason you believe it justified is just moronic.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.  Is anything I posted factually wrong? 

Quote
Did you even read Hillary’s latest tweet? She would’ve been president if not Trump.

No, why should I delve into irrelevant tweets?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 29, 2020, 01:32:52 PM
Presidents flip-flops


What did the president flip flop on recently? He's been pretty solid with his decisions on how to combat the virus and keep the country running.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 29, 2020, 01:34:56 PM
Jeez, the Trench 'guide to why DE  is behind the curve, compared to IT'.. because 'the DE economy is more developed' )))))




Trench, you DO realise that the powerhouse of the Italian economy IS the north .. where they make the cars, have all the expensive fashion houses ?

Where was the epicentre of the Italian outbreak ?....


Don't 'think' ...

I'm not talking of a direct correlation when I speak of advanced economy my dear Mobe.

I'm saying that the more advanced an economy in general the better that country will likely do in other areas. That a strong economy will relate to better technology, science understanding, medical development, research, etc, etc. Generally overal it can significantly that a country has got its sh*t together.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 29, 2020, 01:39:24 PM
UK gov shifting it postion already from 12 weeks for lockdown to six months:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52084517

Expect the six months to be echoed more than the three as time goes on. That's even before we get to flights back on.

So if we count it as beginning of April then we could say not much let up unless we are lucky before the end of September/beginning of October probably at the earliest in most likelihood.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 29, 2020, 01:39:57 PM
What did the president flip flop on recently? He's been pretty solid with his decisions on how to combat the virus and keep the country running.

I've long understood you're totally inept at spotting 'Trampu' howlers

TRY reading your 'leaders' stance on quarantining "..New York, probably New Jersey, certain parts of Connecticut"  from am to pm ..

 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 29, 2020, 01:49:27 PM
I'm not talking of a direct correlation when I speak of advanced economy my dear Mobe.

I'm saying that the more advanced an economy in general the better that country will likely do in other areas. That a strong economy will relate to better technology, science understanding, medical development, research, etc, etc. Generally overal it can significantly that a country has got its sh*t together.

So, Switzerland didn't have  it's sh*t together ...  a non EU ( but EEA member - 'coz those things are 'important' to you )

What about NL, B, A ?  Would you say they 'suffer' the S. Med 'malaise' ( pls excuse me, I'm characterising Trench BS)  ..they have proportionally more cases than the UK ( currently)


These nations are ahead of the UK / US in the spread - simple as that ..









Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: mhr7 on March 29, 2020, 01:51:13 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXUyGvmXFbw

A little levity to brighten your day.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 29, 2020, 02:11:35 PM
TRY reading your 'leaders' stance on quarantining "..New York, probably New Jersey, certain parts of Connecticut"  from am to pm ..



Trump didn't flip flop on that. You're imagining things. Stay off the drugs. Trump said he was thinking about quarantining a few states and he did exactly what he said he was going to do without flip flopping. He thought about it. You should get a job with the media. You'll fit right in.


If any of you want to reuse your N95 mask, here is the way to do it.


http://www.sages.org/n-95-re-use-instructions/



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 29, 2020, 02:24:04 PM

Trump didn't flip flop on that.


'sure'..

Thinking of empathetic souls..

Parenting Moscow-style, today

(http://i.imgur.com/4uRE5j1.png)


Source: http://www.instagram.com/p/B-UujJ0HVPb
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 29, 2020, 03:41:20 PM
Yep and many Poles leaving the UK :)

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/world/europe/uk-coronavirus-poland.amp.html

With the transition period estimated to end at the end of this year or so I doubt we'll be seeing them back here.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 29, 2020, 04:29:59 PM
oh, so sorry dumb phuques...

sure, begorrah now, you’ll be up to 150 tousand o’er the end of the day, me lads...
aye...

what that means now...
is that by April 7, you’ll be up to your first million recorded Corona cases in the colonies
hello, WOT?
I say, that’s a rather frightfully large number, eh ‘ole chap?

well, indeed it is...

because just one week after that, the number will be 4 million total reported Corona infections...
and....
sigh...
the FIRST peak is still several more weeks away
from that illustrious day...

so, what can I do to help
is the question that I have been asking myself.....

and the answer I received was.....
wait for it....
....
....
PRAY AWAY THE CORONA VIRUS

I’m starting this as a “MEME”
I’m trying to get Christians of all denominations
to come together to their place of worship
on Easter Sunday
and...
PRAY AWAY THE CORONA VIRUS

I’m putting up freaking signs EVERYWHERE!!!

hahahahahahahaha
blood libel MFers
paybacks are SUCH a bitch, now ain’t they?
and all you dumb phuque Corona Kool-Aid drinkers are gonna cash that check
yeah, Trump Voters

me too, next time
I AM going to vote for Trump, just like the rest of White America
because like them, I embrace the complete and total destruction of America...
I just have different reasons then they do...
but, I now support it just as much as they do
my fantasy is that my vote was the deciding vote that allowed Trump to have 4 more years in office
and that about midway through his second term, the country was completely annihilated from disease, war, poverty, and then falls apart...

and I, the poor humble scribe
reader
of the writing on the wall
shall tell thee

this summer, when there is so much smoke that it blocks the sun
you will get a taste of your future...
and you will know...

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on March 29, 2020, 05:37:54 PM
Here is a new one for today.  I went into a ARCO AM/PM convenience store briefly to pick up an item.  A very cute 21 year old behind the register   I told her I was surprised that she does not wear gloves to protect her from the virus.  She replied that she had been told "We have been told that anyone that had the flu in November or December is immune to the Corona virus.

Has there been any evidence for this or is it ARCO's way of getting clerks to come to work?  I notice in nearly every business I have been into the past couple of weeks, all the clerks at the registers are wearing gloves.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 29, 2020, 07:58:09 PM
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/mrz032820dAPR20200327024614.jpg)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 29, 2020, 08:53:56 PM
Here is a new one for today.  I went into a ARCO AM/PM convenience store briefly to pick up an item.  A very cute 21 year old behind the register   I told her I was surprised that she does not wear gloves to protect her from the virus.  She replied that she had been told "We have been told that anyone that had the flu in November or December is immune to the Corona virus.

Has there been any evidence for this or is it ARCO's way of getting clerks to come to work?  I notice in nearly every business I have been into the past couple of weeks, all the clerks at the registers are wearing gloves.
Got gas at my Usual arco today.  The clerk area had the shield up like you see in banks, he was wearing both a facemask and gloves.   

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 29, 2020, 11:14:08 PM
Yep and many Poles leaving the UK :)

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/world/europe/uk-coronavirus-poland.amp.html

With the transition period estimated to end at the end of this year or so I doubt we'll be seeing them back here.

Trench,

1/ The Polish exodus started after the Brexit vote

2 Their economy  back home was doing nicely. You've been to Poland .. you drew a blank, there, too ...

3/ 'Sorry' - what has got to do with this thread ?

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 30, 2020, 01:14:43 AM
Trench,

1/ The Polish exodus started after the Brexit vote

2 Their economy  back home was doing nicely. You've been to Poland .. you drew a blank, their, too ...

3/ 'Sorry' - what has got to do with this thread ?

This thread is about Coronavirus and how it is affecting you, me, us, so far. I'm just pointing out that so far this virus is helping to resettle migration from Eastern Europe back to their country of origin. That's bound to have an affect on the society in which we live. It will return this country to the way it was before countries like Poland gained the right for its citizens to come here, which they did en-masse.

Currently the EU has been propping up the Polish economy and the rest of its Eastern European member states with taxpayers money from Western European member states. That can't go on no more, especially with the cost that the Coronavirus is going to cause on finances. Expect to see a big cut back in money for Eastern Europe and a big contraction in the Polish economy after all of this. I very much doubt that Ukrainians will return to countries like Poland now that a lot of their own people hence workforce are returning and their economy likely to start faltering.

The EU and it's irresponsible policies is likely to be seen more of a problem as time wears on. Expect for a big upheaval here, either it will be forced to change radically into a different beast or it will be ditched by many member states in turn.

I drew a blank in Poland, that was due to various factors not just their economy. The economy was one, culture was another, religion was another, familiarity with foreigners was another, etc.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 30, 2020, 01:30:08 AM

I'm just pointing out that so far this virus is helping to resettle migration from Eastern Europe back to their country of origin.

The virus may well have some folks wanting to be with the extended family - and who can blame them ?..

Your ASSertion that they'd not be back ?  It'll be as 'accurate' as your dating 'advice' .. :popcorn:




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 30, 2020, 02:08:19 AM
Imagine you are an expat and it was time to renew your passport ..  then the agency the govt uses announces "We'll be closing down, indefinitely from 31st March 2020, due to the virus situation "


Surely, such services are deemed essential ? 


Out of date passports aren't much use in many nations

http://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1156630-urgent-notice-outstanding-uk-passport-collections-from-vfs (http://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1156630-urgent-notice-outstanding-uk-passport-collections-from-vfs)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 30, 2020, 03:16:56 AM
Imagine your are an expat and it was time to renew your passport ..  then the agency the govt uses announces "We'll be closing down, indefinitely from 31st March 2020, due to the virus situation "


Surely, such services are deemed essential ? 


Out of date passports aren't much use in many nations

http://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1156630-urgent-notice-outstanding-uk-passport-collections-from-vfs (http://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1156630-urgent-notice-outstanding-uk-passport-collections-from-vfs)


Georgia has that 360 day rule. I managed to do the border jump into Armenia the day before the border was closed. In Armenia where I walked in the customs agent asked me if I lived in Georgia and why? I told him I did and was about to start a business. He thought that was funny. Anyway I think the governments know they have to lighten up on technicalities.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 30, 2020, 04:23:51 AM
Imagine your are an expat and it was time to renew your passport ..  then the agency the govt uses announces "We'll be closing down, indefinitely from 31st March 2020, due to the virus situation "


Surely, such services are deemed essential ? 


Out of date passports aren't much use in many nations

http://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1156630-urgent-notice-outstanding-uk-passport-collections-from-vfs (http://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1156630-urgent-notice-outstanding-uk-passport-collections-from-vfs)

Mobe the transition period ends at the end of this year, they will lose that right to be here then. This virus thing could easily go on a year or more. By that time they may not be bothered about coming back here and having gotten comfortable again back in their homeland.

Odds are these negotiations will probably end up as pointless as the EU could well break up before they are concluded or shortly thereafter. Italy is already signalling it is ready to throw in the towel. Other big players in the EU are fed up with the EU's handling of the virus situation or lack thereof. They will all likely agree that there is little point in going on with it in its current form since it suits no one. They will likely agree that it's best to call a day on it and instead join Britain in forming a looser free trade association with fringe benefits that member nations are in control of and tellit what is happening not the other way around.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 30, 2020, 05:53:32 AM
Mobe the transition period ends at the end of this year, they will lose that right to be here then.

'Sorry' are you telling ME this ? ;)  I think the Poles and I are quite genned up on the rules, 'thanks'..

This virus thing could easily go on a year or more. By that time they may not be bothered about coming back here and having gotten comfortable again back in their homeland.

Who knows ?  But, AGAIN.. what has your ASSertion ( that was bollox ) got to do with this virus ?

Ah...  You want to post MORE unthinking tosh ...




Odds are these negotiations will probably end up as pointless as the EU could well break up before they are concluded or shortly thereafter. Italy is already signalling it is ready to throw in the towel. Other big players in the EU are fed up with the EU's handling of the virus situation or lack thereof. They will all likely agree that there is little point in going on with it in its current form since it suits no one. They will likely agree that it's best to call a day on it and instead join Britain in forming a looser free trade association with fringe benefits that member nations are in control of and tellit what is happening not the other way around.

Hmm,

1/ So how will Italy pay it's debts ?

2/ Will it leave the Eurozone

3/ Will PM Conte persuade his people to leave ?

I think you might use this as your 'ammo' :

http://www.euronews.com/2020/03/28/eu-will-lose-its-raison-d-etre-if-it-fails-to-help-during-covid-19-crisis-italy-s-pm-warns (http://www.euronews.com/2020/03/28/eu-will-lose-its-raison-d-etre-if-it-fails-to-help-during-covid-19-crisis-italy-s-pm-warns)

In the meantime, Italians know that the Germans have been flying plane loads of ill Italians to German hospitals..



I'd be perfectly happy with a free trade one and freedom of movement for EU citizens


The UK has already committed suicide and ANY EU nation would be wise to watch how UK PLC fares ..







Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 30, 2020, 06:36:58 AM
No, why should I delve into irrelevant tweets?

You’ve shown a propensity to easily subscribe to fake news. That’s why.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 30, 2020, 07:17:58 AM
'Sorry' are you telling ME this ? ;)  I think the Poles and I are quite genned up on the rules, 'thanks'..

Who knows ?  But, AGAIN.. what has your ASSertion ( that was bollox ) got to do with this virus ?

Ah...  You want to post MORE unthinking tosh ...




Hmm,

1/ So how will Italy pay it's debts ?

2/ Will it leave the Eurozone

3/ Will PM Conte persuade his people to leave ?

I think you might use this as your 'ammo' :

http://www.euronews.com/2020/03/28/eu-will-lose-its-raison-d-etre-if-it-fails-to-help-during-covid-19-crisis-italy-s-pm-warns (http://www.euronews.com/2020/03/28/eu-will-lose-its-raison-d-etre-if-it-fails-to-help-during-covid-19-crisis-italy-s-pm-warns)

In the meantime, Italians know that the Germans have been flying plane loads of ill Italians to German hospitals..



I'd be perfectly happy with a free trade one and freedom of movement for EU citizens


The UK has already committed suicide and ANY EU nation would be wise to watch how UK PLC fares ..

Mobe, the Italian government will be/is essentially bankrupt, it will default on all of its debts as there is now no way they can pay them. They were heavily indebt before this crisis, way more than this country, there will be no way they can pay their debts now. Think Greece but on a larger scale.

Italy will happily leave the EU and the Euro. It won't find s currency it doesn't have control of to devalue pay its debts helpful. It already can't control its borders due to uncontrollable illegal immigration because of the EU.

Other Western European nations will follow and it will probably end up with the EU call a day on its own project. Countries will then be left with the freedom to start over. Free trade yes, freedom of movement no way!

I think the Ukraine can happily give up any idea of joining the EU or easy access for its citizens there again. The EU as we know it will fortunately be over and something a bit more responsible and looser will be formed to take its place.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 30, 2020, 07:27:21 AM
You’ve shown a propensity to easily subscribe to fake news. That’s why.

Another 'magic woofle dust' sufferer ...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 30, 2020, 07:52:47 AM
Some bedtime reading for our Mobe ;)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/29/eu-project-mortal-danger-italy-spain-abandoned/
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on March 30, 2020, 08:00:29 AM
Don't know if Sandro has reported this but, wife's cousin who lives near Florence told her that two Italian female nurses in their 30s committed suicide because they couldn't take the stress.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 30, 2020, 08:24:23 AM
Some bedtime reading for our Mobe ;)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/29/eu-project-mortal-danger-italy-spain-abandoned/

As I KEEP telling you, I think you (and some reporters) seem to have nothing better to do ....

When US states are 'discouraging' folks from other states would you say the US is in danger of breaking up ? .....
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 30, 2020, 08:28:59 AM
Mobe, the Italian government will be/is essentially bankrupt


Ahem, Trench ..it may only be escaping your attention, but ALL nations are spending money that they haven't got ... the reckoning will come later



I think..

No, you don't .... 

We have to get through this crisis and I hardly think Ukraine is thinking of it's EU aspirations while it's borders are closed - except for the occupied areas ...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on March 30, 2020, 08:57:00 AM
Perhaps Im not following EU politics closely enough. Is there doubt that the EU Central Bank wont bailout Italy? Or is just the 100 Billion Euro number in dispute? If the Central Bank doesn't help Italy, the whole European central banking system could fall apart
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 30, 2020, 09:05:28 AM
You’ve shown a propensity to easily subscribe to fake news. That’s why.


You are certainly entitled to your opinion.  Is anything I posted factually wrong? 

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 30, 2020, 09:18:59 AM
REMOVED FROM ANOTHER THREAD TO CREATE SOCIAL DISTANCING  FROM POLITICAL NONSENSE

 
Ah, yes ... 'Scientific' like your President's 'hunches' and drug recommendations ? ...
 

TRUMP NEVER RECOMMENDED DRUGS.

HE TOLD AMERICA ABOUT SOME  POSSIBILITIES THAT HAD PROMISING PRELIM RESULTS.  AND HE PROBABLY DIRECTED THE TASK FORCE TO GIVE THEM PRIORITY.  THAT IS WHAT LEADERS DO - CONSIDER ALL INFO AND SET PRIORITIES. 

GUESS WHAT!

Physicians started to administer them to patients on off-label basis and to themselves (as a prophylactic).  Yesterday  FDA approved them for emergency use. 

That's good news, and it should save some lives - maybe yours. 




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 30, 2020, 09:35:12 AM
REMOVED FROM ANOTHER THREAD TO CREATE SOCIAL DISTANCING  FROM POLITICAL NONSENSE

   

TRUMP NEVER RECOMMENDED DRUGS.

HE TOLD AMERICA ABOUT SOME  POSSIBILITIES THAT HAD PROMISING PRELIM RESULTS.  AND HE PROBABLY DIRECTED THE TASK FORCE TO GIVE THEM PRIORITY.  THAT IS WHAT LEADERS DO - CONSIDER ALL INFO AND SET PRIORITIES. 

GUESS WHAT!

Physicians started to administer them to patients on off-label basis and to themselves (as a prophylactic).  Yesterday  FDA approved them for emergency use. 

That's good news, and it should save some lives - maybe yours.

You JUST proved you've been a might 'selective' re 'Trampu's' pronouncements v the efficacy of the medication 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 30, 2020, 10:23:06 AM
You JUST proved you've been a might 'selective' re 'Trampu's' pronouncements v the efficacy of the medication

Typical Moby response, Sweeping generality without facts. 

You do not dissect Trump's actual words.  You do not mention actual results.   

The off-label trails are less than scientific  because the administering physicians do not include "controls" (placebos, etc.).  Instead the physicians are trying to save lives if not themselves.  Suffice it to say,  yesterday the FDA approved them.   Starting today millions will start receiving the drug. 

We will see.  How does that castigate Trump?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 30, 2020, 10:30:31 AM
Quote from: BC
Is anything I posted factually wrong?

Man, you sure got the whole CNN shuffle down pat, BC. I gotta give you that. Just that that pshyt doesn’t fly with me.
 
Trump’s remark of *thinking/considering* of quarantining the 3 states is simply that – a thought! You making a mountain out of a molehill to what was otherwise a benign ‘comment’ and giving it some sinister life is moronic.
 
Here’s the absurdity of what you’re peddling. YOUR stooge Obama openly declared a stupid *REDLINE* then doesn’t act on it. If you were *disappointed* about a ‘thought’ Trump expressed, you must then agree Obama was an undeniable full blown idiot for actually declaring about doing something he couldn’t do. Yes?
 
Then, conveniently, like CNN, you hide behind some sort of justifiable line of questioning as though you had an ounce of purpose other than to peddle *fake news*.
 
Again, as C-I-C and if warranted, Trump can do in the country what Governor Cuomo in NY did when he forced contained New Rochelle to prevent further spreading of the infection; if Trump felt it was the right to do for the country as a whole.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 30, 2020, 11:06:03 AM
GQ,

As I thought, nothing factually wrong with what I posted.

Guess Trump should keep his thoughts to himself, or at least until he has spoken with his experts and parties involved. Would save some virtual ink.

Meanwhile..

A levelling of new cases is pretty much confirmed, now hopefully will continue decreasing. Today's new cases are half of yesterday and testing has been constant at around 25000 tests per day. Will take a few more days to confirm the possible new trend. Prognosis is that with the continued lockdown most if not all areas will hopefully be down to zero cases mid-May.  Still, a ways to go but the light at the end of the tunnel keeps getting brighter and folks staying at home can really see that the effort is working.

The timeline pretty much follows that reported in China, around 2 months.

The downside, we'll still be looking at around 20,000 dead, hopefully, less.  Some anecdotal reports say ambulance runs in the most affected area have halved.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 30, 2020, 11:16:02 AM
Election coming this November, I suggest you make hay...otherwise it'll be another 4 long years.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 30, 2020, 11:47:24 AM

Then, conveniently, like CNN, you hide behind some sort of justifiable line of questioning as though you had an ounce of purpose other than to peddle *fake news*.
 
Again, as C-I-C and if warranted, Trump can do in the country what Governor Cuomo in NY did when he forced contained New Rochelle to prevent further spreading of the infection; if Trump felt it was the right to do for the country as a whole.

What is there to hide? I'm not trying to hide or change Trump's own words. Are you?

Quite likely, after speaking with his advisors he found that a local lockdown would not be effective and that it is probably too late for a national lockdown.  I would have fully understood and supported a national lockdown, even if such might be deemed illegal.  He could have likely overcome the legalities by enlisting the help of all governors.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 30, 2020, 11:49:32 AM
What is there to hide? I'm not trying to hide or change Trump's own words. Are you?

Quite likely, after speaking with his advisors he found that a local lockdown would not be effective and that it is probably too late for a national lockdown.  I would have fully understood and supported a national lockdown, even if such might be deemed illegal.  He could have likely overcome the legalities by enlisting the help of all governors.

Again, election time this November. Vote. Then deal with it.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 30, 2020, 11:53:01 AM
GQ,

Of course, we will.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 30, 2020, 12:39:26 PM
all of you Trump voters...
listen to the words I bring you....

by the end of today,
thanks to Russia putting Donald Trump in office
the USA will have DOUBLE the number of Corona cases that China currently has!!!!
DOUBLE and GROWING!!!!


you dumb phuques don’t realize it....
but every time you go out and stand in a line with other people now
you are standing in line at the Jones Town II Corona Kool-Aid Bowl waitin for a sip
don’t worry, no need for shoving, it will be your turn soon enough...
I hope it’s the flavor you like...

the odds of it being your turn next at the punch bowl
are goin up at about 25% per day after day after day...
so don't worry...
because it won't be too long before it'll be your turn to take a sip!
yippee!!

oh, BTW, the USA runs out of ventilators in a couple of weeks,
so after that point...
at least if ya get the bad form of Corona, you’re going to die fast before you infect too many others, I mean besides your family, etc.

hopefully, it will be my vote, that turns the election into Trumps's favor
so that next year Trump can finally completely  kill Obammacare
and replace it with Trumpdontcare...
and Mar-a-Largo Mass grave of Corona victims

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 30, 2020, 12:58:01 PM
Trump is getting too much of the spotlight while being a leader during this crisis. Biden is under pressure to take over and lead the nation during this crisis. Reminds me of the time when Trump became president, Ex Secretary of State John Kerry took it upon himself  to negotiate with Iran over the nuke agreement.

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/489096-biden-under-pressure-to-step-up-coronavirus-response

Boris Johnson is furious with China with deceiving the world and his experts figure China's numbers are 40 times less than what they should be. He said there will be a reckoning. Many politicians around the world were caught with their pants down. They each have their team of medical experts to figure out the virus and as politicians, they should know China lies a lot. What happened? Boris may cancel the huge 5G agreement with Huawei

http://www.yahoo.com/news/boris-johnsons-government-reportedly-furious-075257081.html

Because of China, WHO is not allowed to recognize Taiwan. WHO is not even allowed to utter the word "Taiwan" but WHO now promises to listen to Taiwan after Taiwan was the first to alert the world about the crap going on in China but WHO ignored them.

http://news.yahoo.com/says-following-taiwan-virus-response-104125852.html

Besides warm weather not being effective against the coronavirus, experts say don't depend on sunlight and UV light to kill the virus. I just bought a couple of UV lights my wife is using around the house. I need to show her this article. She's been looking for cures and treatments like many others. The good thing is our house is very clean!

http://www.yahoo.com/news/fact-check-sunlight-does-not-113245528.html

Speaking of cures, China promotes Bear Bile as a cure

http://www.foxnews.com/world/china-promotes-bear-bile-as-coronavirus-cure

China's National Ministry of Health has compiled a huge list of approved cures and treatments for the coronavirus. Buy the stuff in bulk and become America's next snake oil salesman.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/health/2020-03/04/c_1125661175.htm

Early March Cuomo said people are stealing PPE and medical equipment out of hospitals. Not all Trump's fault for their shortage but media conveniently forgot about this fact from weeks ago. NY should've protected those items like the gold in Ft. Knox. Unfortunately not all medical professionals are heroes. Some are thieves and wanted to make big money on Ebay.

http://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/06/people-are-stealing-face-masks-from-local-hospitals-gov-cuomo-says.html

State Department has retrieved 18,000 stranded Americans. Some Americans can't come home yet due to mandatory quarantines placed on them from the nations they visited.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/state-department-says-its-retrieved-over-18000-us-citizens-stranded-abroad-amid-coronavirus-pandemic/ar-BB11SDRV?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 30, 2020, 02:38:04 PM
you guys have absolutely NO freaking idea of how screwed you are!!!
let me tell you about what happened to me last night dewds...

so...
I’m working on this meme to get as many Evangelical Christians as I can to go to a special “Pray Away The Corona Service” on Easter Sunday, to be held at their place of worship....

so, I started callin places, to make SURE that they ARE gonna have their services!
I insist on it, “or me and my friends will never spend another Sunday there!!!!”
in an indignant voice before I hang up!!

but last night...
I called the biggest mega-church in Houston to make SURE they’re having their meeting
and I am expecting a kind, calm, reassuring voice when I hear someone pick up the phone after I dial them

but....
that’s NOT what I heard!!!
instead, I heard the voice of pure evil!!
as if it were the devil who was their answering service
I'm certain that the devil knew it was me calling
and that she was playing with me...
treating me like I was one of the "Rubes" who comes a'callin for salvation
so she made her sales pitch to me in the coldest voice I have ever heard
while I listened in stunned silence
and then I hung up...
and then I said to myself, "DAMN NATION"

it really was not what I expected to hear when I called a Church
and frankly, it actually scared me a little
cuz, I know this has a meaning...

the canary in the coal mine
before the lights go out
and the ghosts come home
to look for their families
kinda meme
but this time, Im the ghost
searching forever for my family
over and and over
each day
the same as before
in the zone, there is no more life left
and time is an illusion
of empty dark sleep
that follows you from your dreams
through tears
that drop
into the low drowsing dark



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 30, 2020, 03:03:01 PM
Trump is getting too much of the spotlight while being a leader during this crisis.

Hmm, 'leader'.. REALLY ? 

He's had a head start re this virus and you'll soon see how he's failed you .. (

Edit to add ... sorry, I didn't mean BillyB in the you ..
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on March 30, 2020, 04:56:07 PM
you guys have absolutely NO freaking idea of how screwed you are!!!
let me tell you about what happened to me last night dewds...

so...
I’m working on this meme to get as many Evangelical Christians as I can to go to a special “Pray Away The Corona Service” on Easter Sunday, to be held at their place of worship....

so, I started callin places, to make SURE that they ARE gonna have their services!
I insist on it, “or me and my friends will never spend another Sunday there!!!!”
in an indignant voice before I hang up!!

but last night...
I called the biggest mega-church in Houston to make SURE they’re having their meeting
and I am expecting a kind, calm, reassuring voice when I hear someone pick up the phone after I dial them

but....
that’s NOT what I heard!!!
instead, I heard the voice of pure evil!!
as if it were the devil who was their answering service
I'm certain that the devil knew it was me calling
and that she was playing with me...
treating me like I was one of the "Rubes" who comes a'callin for salvation
so she made her sales pitch to me in the coldest voice I have ever heard
while I listened in stunned silence
and then I hung up...
and then I said to myself, "DAMN NATION"

it really was not what I expected to hear when I called a Church
and frankly, it actually scared me a little
cuz, I know this has a meaning...

the canary in the coal mine
before the lights go out
and the ghosts come home
to look for their families
kinda meme
but this time, Im the ghost
searching forever for my family
over and and over
each day
the same as before
in the zone, there is no more life left
and time is an illusion
of empty dark sleep
that follows you from your dreams
through tears
that drop
into the low drowsing dark

Krimster, way too much Doom and Gloom, we are all in this together, put politics aside. We will survive

 I like your old posts, when we remembered naked girls walking around our apartments with us in the 1990s
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 30, 2020, 06:07:51 PM

There won't be gloom and doom. Gloom and doom would happen if action wasn't taken. Trump's speech today started off with projections by the experts and based off the actions we've taken, we will save one million American lives. Of course it came at great cost to our economy but doing nothing will have a greater cost in lives and economy.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 30, 2020, 06:53:33 PM



The curfew here in Georgia lifts in 5 minutes


Meanwhile in Sweden most businesses are open for business.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-fight-scandinavia-sweden-stands-185427459.html (http://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-fight-scandinavia-sweden-stands-185427459.html)


Meanwhile in the US the FED projects one-third of the US workforce will be unemployed.


http://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/30/coronavirus-job-losses-could-total-47-million-unemployment-rate-of-32percent-fed-says.html


Welcome to the Greater Depression
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 30, 2020, 07:34:31 PM

Medical News Today:
These are some foods high in ZINC. Zinc kills coronavirus if it can get into your cells. BUT DO NOT take high doses of zinc supplements! Instead, include zinc-rich foods in your healthy diet.
This chart gives the potency per 100 grams, and also how much you have to consume to get 100 grams.

http://michaelsavage.com/foods-high-in-zinc-2/ (http://michaelsavage.com/foods-high-in-zinc-2/)






(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49719115127_0ec9f46e74_c.jpg)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on March 30, 2020, 07:45:26 PM
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49719016717_1eceaafb4f_c.jpg)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 30, 2020, 07:51:20 PM

A medical group that recommended malaria drugs chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, and also recommended them used with zinc is reversing their recommendation

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/trending/coronavirus-live-updates-us-cases-soar-past-142000-including-more-than-2500-deaths/TGHU7IUMNVBE7DJMOK2PILL7GQ/

 Army Capt. Douglas Linn Hickok, a physician assistant, is the first American soldier to die of the virus.

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/new-jersey-national-guard-member-is-first-coronavirus-death-in-the-military-1.624269
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 30, 2020, 08:12:58 PM
. The good thing is our house is very clean!
Oh yeah?

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGcTcDcrx9s  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGcTcDcrx9s)

Fathertime!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on March 30, 2020, 09:13:53 PM
Younger adults getting hit hard in Moscow.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/03/30/most-of-moscows-new-coronavirus-patients-younger-than-40-a69797
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 31, 2020, 05:47:58 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0-2XxgHIXk
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 31, 2020, 07:22:55 AM
SC was on the beach this am in Sochi ... beautiful weather ...  NO ONE was on the beach ...  That was her form of 'social distancing' ..

In 45 minutes time, things will be slightly different ..  Sorry about the Google translation

"
Today from 18:00 in the Krasnodar Territory quarantine will be introduced

It implies a complete ban on movement. The exception is to go to the store or pharmacy. The quarantine will be valid until April 5 and, if necessary, may be extended.

Control over the implementation of restrictions will be carried out by mobile units from among the police, the Russian Guard, Cossacks and social activists. Violators of the regime will be fined.

On behalf of the Governor of the Krasnodar Territory, disinfection of public transport and road infrastructure is carried out in the resort. Street and parks will also be processed during the week.

The markets, weekend fairs, hairdressers, beauty salons, consumer services organizations, service stations, car washes, real estate agencies completely stop working. Also, all stores are closed, except for food and non-food, selling essential goods. Pharmacies will continue to work. Limited dental activities. Patients will be admitted only in emergency cases."

The scary part ?  Who the **** are 'social-activists' ?


http://sochi.ru/press-sluzhba/novosti/66/145672/ (http://sochi.ru/press-sluzhba/novosti/66/145672/)

( in Russian)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 31, 2020, 07:29:25 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0-2XxgHIXk

At first glance, I thought it was David Letterman, who would say the same.   :D
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 31, 2020, 07:31:42 AM
So you've spent the last two weeks preaching for everyone to stay home and your wife has to be ordered off the beach by decree of the governor?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 31, 2020, 07:35:51 AM
So you've spent the last two weeks preaching for everyone to stay home and your wife has to be ordered off the beach by decree of the governor?

YUP .. My wife is a member of my Church , but not necessarily the most studious member my of the congregation ..  I'm VERY glad of the order..  Cluebat: Russians don't give a sh*t ..  Does you wife follow all your suggestions ? ))

But let's not let this distract us from my question ...   WHO are 'local activists' and how are they appointed ...  ?



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 31, 2020, 07:50:10 AM
YUP .. My wife is a member of my Church ....

Speaking of Church:

Pastor of Tampa church that held two large Sunday services arrested, jailed

My county sheriff  warned Howard-Browne, a megachurch pastor and self-proclaimed “Holy Ghost bartender” to discontinue his services.  He held two large services on Sunday, and live-streamed the  3-1/2 hour morning service, showing congregants shoulder-to-shoulder while the church band played.

Howard-Browne had previously spent $100,000 on 13 machines to disinfect his church.  He supposedly is a conspiracy theorist that COVID-19 was purposefully released by Chinese, among other right-wing conspiracy theories. 

The pastor stated man needs God.  The state attorney replied, “I’d remind the good pastor of Mark 12:31, which said there’s no more important commandment than to love thy neighbor as thyself.  Loving your neighbors is protecting them, not jeopardizing their health...”

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 31, 2020, 08:38:33 AM
Speaking of Church:

 He supposedly is a conspiracy theorist that COVID-19 was purposefully released by Chinese, among other right-wing conspiracy theories. 



..and some Russians think it's the Brits' ..Well, according to 'The Sun' http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11190739/russia-blames-britain-coronavirus-skripal-novichok/ (http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11190739/russia-blames-britain-coronavirus-skripal-novichok/)

or is it the 'Muricans ? ..



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 31, 2020, 08:51:54 AM
YUP .. My wife is a member of my Church , but not necessarily the most studious member my of the congregation ..  I'm VERY glad of the order..  Cluebat: Russians don't give a sh*t ..  Does you wife follow all your suggestions ? ))

But let's not let this distract us from my question ...   WHO are 'local activists' and how are they appointed ...  ?

So what's for the good of everyone else isn't good for your wife?

Yeah, actually my wife does follow all of my suggestions when it's a matter of life or death. She is an educated and intelligent woman and trusts me that way. Apparently you're a bit out of touch with the general population of Russians. They do give a shit.

As to answering your question of the social activist, who knows but I'd wager it's likely to be some thugs to force compliance. By hook or by crook
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 31, 2020, 08:57:01 AM
So what's for the good of everyone else isn't good for your wife?



Did you miss the part when I mentioned I'm glad a quarantine was being enforced ... ?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 31, 2020, 08:58:10 AM
Yeah, actually my wife does follow all of my suggestions when it's a matter of life or death.

ditto here.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 31, 2020, 09:00:33 AM
OK, let's run with this ..

Gator's wife worried ( rightly) about him playing Golf ...

I wonder if on some forum somewhere in Russia other ladies are discussing Gator ...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 31, 2020, 09:24:07 AM


Did you miss the part when I mentioned I'm glad a quarantine was being enforced ... ?

JMO but in your church, practicing what you preach would seem to be the order of the day but, I guess that's just me and BC perhaps.

Gator can speak for himself and I'll not opine whether he is right or wrong but, I know golf as I have played a lot of it. If there was ever a place to practice social distancing with ease, it would be the golf course. The 19th hole would be another matter.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on March 31, 2020, 10:41:17 AM
JMO but in your church, practicing what you preach would seem to be the order of the day but, I guess that's just me and BC perhaps.

*I* am practising what I preach ...  As far as 'madam' is concerned .. You might be wise to ask:

1/  How far is your place from the sea?

2/ Can you walk there in minutes ?..It;s THAT close ..

3/ Was there any quarantine in place?  ( She was self-isolating ) 

4/ Did she travel alone and keep 2m from anyone you met ?

5/ Would I prefer her to have remained at home ?


Gator can speak for himself and I'll not opine whether he is right or wrong but, I know golf as I have played a lot of it. If there was ever a place to practice social distancing with ease, it would be the golf course. The 19th hole would be another matter.

I wasn't asking Gator to comment  - nor for YOU to comment on Gator ... I WAS pointing out your selective  duplicity ...



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 31, 2020, 11:48:19 AM
If there was ever a place to practice social distancing with ease, it would be the golf course. The 19th hole would be another matter.

Correct. And we have made many changes to inhibit social gathering (closed the club house and the 19th hole) and prevent direct or indirect contact (rake bunkers with feet, one person per cart if not walk, no wagering).  One change that surprised me is turning the metal cup in each hole upside down (ball is now retrievable without touching side of hole/cup).  I consider these akin to airbags, seat belt, etc. when driving a car. 

Even with these precautions, I am not playing now because of my wife's anxiety.   I continue to use the practice range,  where I provide my own balls for the putting/chipping green. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 31, 2020, 11:51:04 AM

I wonder if on some forum somewhere in Russia other ladies are discussing Gator ...

I impressed a few, in both good and bad ways.  That was so long ago, I doubt they remember it. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 31, 2020, 11:56:07 AM
Gator can speak for himself and I'll not opine whether he is right or wrong but, I know golf as I have played a lot of it. If there was ever a place to practice social distancing with ease, it would be the golf course. The 19th hole would be another matter.


Isn't being the sole person on the beach social distancing as well?


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on March 31, 2020, 12:17:41 PM
The beach is difficult to evaluate.  Yes, it would be easy to maintain 6 ft separation however, my experience and from the news clips it appears that people are clustering.  So I guess I don't have an issue with closing them down for now.

On the other hand, I can't see closing large open parks and hiking trails.  There is a lot more risk going to the grocery store than out in the open on trails and open parks.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 31, 2020, 12:26:17 PM
*I* am practising what I preach ...  As far as 'madam' is concerned .. You might be wise to ask:

1/  How far is your place from the sea?

2/ Can you walk there in minutes ?..It;s THAT close ..

3/ Was there any quarantine in place?  ( She was self-isolating ) 

4/ Did she travel alone and keep 2m from anyone you met ?

5/ Would I prefer her to have remained at home ?


I wasn't asking Gator to comment  - nor for YOU to comment on Gator ... I WAS pointing out your selective  duplicity ...

You attempted to ostracize anyone whom you did not feel practiced social distancing to your standards. Yet, when it comes to your "wife" she has her own standards. Is this because she's Russian or just selfish sunflower spitting beach bunny? It is glaringly obvious whom the man in that relationship is. Then, shut your pie hole about Gators or anyone else's choices.



Isn't being the sole person on the beach social distancing as well?


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Gee, I do not know Boe, does she own the beach? Do you know who was there before her or prior? How do you know she was the only one on the beach? Because Miss Beach bunny says so?

 :ROFL:
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 31, 2020, 12:43:05 PM

As supplies become more abundant with manufacturing ramped up, I'm seeing more articles about the value of masks. I've read Asian nations criticize Western nations who have citizens that don't wear masks as the reason infection count is so high. Of course masks work. Medical professionals use them.

Cuomo has COVID-19

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/chris-cuomo-diagnosed-with-coronavirus-he-will-continue-working-from-home/ar-BB11Ycp8?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on March 31, 2020, 12:49:08 PM
I continue to use the practice range,  where I provide my own balls for the putting/chipping green.

Sounds a little painful to me.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 31, 2020, 12:50:59 PM
I really don't know what all the fuss is about with Gator's golfing habit.  He clearly mentioned the precautions that were being taken in his original post on the subject. I would assume in compliance with state restrictions.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 31, 2020, 12:53:34 PM
Correct. And we have made many changes to inhibit social gathering (closed the club house and the 19th hole) and prevent direct or indirect contact (rake bunkers with feet, one person per cart if not walk, no wagering).  One change that surprised me is turning the metal cup in each hole upside down (ball is now retrievable without touching side of hole/cup).  I consider these akin to airbags, seat belt, etc. when driving a car. 

Even with these precautions, I am not playing now because of my wife's anxiety.   I continue to use the practice range,  where I provide my own balls for the putting/chipping green.

My course started with closing the 19th and the kitchen altogether. Days later, they closed the cart services, walkers only. Within the week of that. the County ordered total closure including ranges, practice facilities including putting greens.

So to take advantage of this, they decided to aerate the greens a little early. Unfortunately, the members fees didn't take a hiatus.

Today all city and county courses, private or public, are closed. Although not completely sure if 100% private courses are complying..
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 31, 2020, 12:54:43 PM
I really don't know what all the fuss is about with Gator's golfing habit.  He clearly mentioned the precautions that were being taken in his original post on the subject. I would assume in compliance with state restrictions.

There wasn't any except for Mr. Moobs Contrary attempting to sit on his superiority perch
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 31, 2020, 12:59:04 PM
So I guess I don't have an issue with closing them down for now.

I don't have an issue with it either.  But people do ignore it.  Honolulu closed Waikiki Beach, but tourists just went under the tape.  I believe now, they are imposing large fines for non compliance.

Quote
On the other hand, I can't see closing large open parks and hiking trails.  There is a lot more risk going to the grocery store than out in the open on trails and open parks.

Banff National Park here has been closed.  It's also a major highway, so one can still drive through the park, but no hiking, nor stopping.  Kind of silly.  Even when it's open, most tourists hike a few marked trails, and stick to the townsite.

Gee, I do not know Boe, does she own the beach? Do you know who was there before her or prior? How do you know she was the only one on the beach? Because Miss Beach bunny says so?

No need to attack another poster's wife.  Please refrain from that.

I was going by what moby posted - that no one else is on the beach. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 31, 2020, 01:01:15 PM
There wasn't any except for Mr. Moobs Contrary attempting to sit on his superiority perch

ahh k.. I tend to skim over such.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 31, 2020, 01:06:26 PM
The beach is difficult to evaluate.  Yes, it would be easy to maintain 6 ft separation however, my experience and from the news clips it appears that people are clustering.  So I guess I don't have an issue with closing them down for now.

On the other hand, I can't see closing large open parks and hiking trails.  There is a lot more risk going to the grocery store than out in the open on trails and open parks.

The noted problem in these places Cal, are people who go hiking usually travel in packs. Case in point what they showed at Runyon Canyon (http://www.laparks.org/park/runyon-canyon) recently. Same with beaches. People don't usually go to the beach alone. More times than not clusters of families with children clustering with other kids, etc...Parks, the same thing, especially the big ones that offer places perfect for picnics and barbequing, playgrounds, etc..
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 31, 2020, 01:10:30 PM
The noted problem in these places Cal, are people who go hiking usually travel in packs. Case in point what they showed at Runyon Canyon (http://www.laparks.org/park/runyon-canyon) recently. Same with beaches. People don't usually go to the beach alone. More times than not clusters of families with children clustering with other kids, etc...Parks, the same thing, especially the big ones that offer places perfect for picnics and barbequing, playgrounds, etc..
Two weeks ago when you posted that phony picture of little to no cars on the road you acted as if everybody was staying inside, and tried to state I was making stuff up.    Clearly that wasn't the case, as the state is now closing down more and more places.   Of course I was right, and you were living in lala land. 

Fathertime!   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 31, 2020, 01:12:00 PM
Good point GQ...  I think here if .gov opened up parks, even with distancing they will fill very quickly. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 31, 2020, 01:14:29 PM
Two weeks ago when you posted that phony picture of little to no cars on the road you acted as if everybody was staying inside, and tried to state I was making stuff up.    Clearly that wasn't the case, as the state is now closing down more and more places.   Of course I was right, and you were living in lala land. 

Fathertime!

Here you go...

http://www.century21global.com/for-sale-residential/China/Wuhan

...and here's the post you mentioned with the pictures. Put your reading glasses on grandpa and look at those pictures again to make sure...

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24217.msg529989#msg529989

Yours truly,
Mr. exceptional and resilient Patriot living in LALA Land.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 31, 2020, 01:30:50 PM

No need to attack another poster's wife.  Please refrain from that.

I was going by what moby posted - that no one else is on the beach. 


I haven't attacked his wife rather making a sound statement that those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, yanno?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 31, 2020, 01:40:04 PM
I haven't attacked his wife


Really?


when it comes to your "wife" she has her own standards.

Quote
Is this because she's Russian or just selfish sunflower spitting beach bunny? 

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on March 31, 2020, 01:44:43 PM
Noticed one big change today when going to the Home Depot.  In order to minimize the number of trips to stores I have been keeping a list and when it is necessary I try to buy everything on the list in one trip.  When I went to Home Depot to purchase some semi-critical items I noticed that all the entrances were blocked except the main entrance.  There was a line outside with about 30 people in it.  It was clear they were  regulating the number of people in the store.

I am not one to tolerate lines of most any kind.  So went over to Lowes and there were no lines.  In the front entrance they have a large 5 gal pail with wet antiseptic wipes that you pull out of a hole in the top.  The wipes are the size of paper towels and very wet.  Can't beat that!  Unfortunately they don't sell the pails with the wipes in them and are out of stock on the wipes although they claim to normally stock them.

Got everything on my list within a few minutes except for one item which was my fault for not writing down the number of a special CFD light bulb I was forced to install in the kitchen when I remodeled it a few years ago.  The damned things are about $15 ea and last a few months at best.

Hopefully Lowes will continue their current access policy.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 31, 2020, 01:45:21 PM
I haven't attacked his wife rather making a sound statement that those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, yanno?


Really?

This post was composed without the aid of google.


Really.

There's quite enough posts where said poster has referred to his wife's penchant for beaches and sunflower seeds.

Your slip is showing
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on March 31, 2020, 01:50:13 PM
That doesn't mean you should attack her.  She's not posting here. 

To be pedantic, moby didn't raise the issue of sunflower seeds.  Maxx did.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 31, 2020, 01:54:36 PM
Interesting way to graph the progression of infections

http://www.politico.com/interactives/2020/number-of-coronavirus-cases-by-country/

scroll down the page also.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 31, 2020, 01:55:18 PM
Noticed one big change today when going to the Home Depot.  In order to minimize the number of trips to stores I have been keeping a list and when it is necessary I try to buy everything on the list in one trip.  When I went to Home Depot to purchase some semi-critical items I noticed that all the entrances were blocked except the main entrance.  There was a line outside with about 30 people in it.  It was clear they were  regulating the number of people in the store.

I am not one to tolerate lines of most any kind.  So went over to Lowes and there were no lines.  In the front entrance they have a large 5 gal pail with wet antiseptic wipes that you pull out of a hole in the top.  The wipes are the size of paper towels and very wet.  Can't beat that!  Unfortunately they don't sell the pails with the wipes in them and are out of stock on the wipes although they claim to normally stock them.

Got everything on my list within a few minutes except for one item which was my fault for not writing down the number of a special CFD light bulb I was forced to install in the kitchen when I remodeled it a few years ago.  The damned things are about $15 ea and last a few months at best.

Hopefully Lowes will continue their current access policy.

Cal-

Did they not have 'seniors only' line at both places? Or better yet, special hours for seniors only?

I, too, was at Costco last Sunday. They actually opened 30 minutes earlier than they do on Sundays. Their staff already have the carts lined up for people. Each one already wiped with sanitizing wipes. Then people orderly entered the store (one entrance), and immediately you see a billboard where items noted whether in stock or not (so people would refrain from wandering about looking for it, or asking the staff). Alongside it this list is another column with specific sought-after items like paper towels, toilet paper, water, etc...with an arrow for people to follow if they were there to purchase any of the items listed.

They even have the checkout lines marked with red to designate the 6' separation. the bar used to separate shoppers' items on the conveyor were removed so people wouldn't cluster at the register during checkout.

Pretty orderly and well orchestrated. Much lower stress condition than it usually is on weekends at Costco.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 31, 2020, 01:57:03 PM
Interesting way to graph the progression of infections

http://www.politico.com/interactives/2020/number-of-coronavirus-cases-by-country/

scroll down the page also.

WOW! One positive case every 4-5 seconds in the US..
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on March 31, 2020, 02:05:55 PM
Interesting way to graph the progression of infections

http://www.politico.com/interactives/2020/number-of-coronavirus-cases-by-country/

scroll down the page also.

Interesting. Seems a fair comparison but there's no relation to the number of daily testing. That would seem to be a factor in the comparison wouldn't it?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 31, 2020, 02:28:51 PM
That would be my guess, FP.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on March 31, 2020, 02:31:02 PM
WOW! One positive case every 4-5 seconds in the US..

Germany, Spain, Italy, France, UK, Switzerland which have a total population of the USA have one positive case every 3-3.5 seconds.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on March 31, 2020, 02:34:53 PM
FP,

The vast majority of testing is being done when folks appear at hospital or doctor with concerning symptoms and not yet general public.

Thus quite comparable.  It shows the momentary rate of infections.  I was surprised to see Italy slowing so much.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on March 31, 2020, 03:24:35 PM
Cal-

Did they not have 'seniors only' line at both places? Or better yet, special hours for seniors only?

I, too, was at Costco last Sunday. They actually opened 30 minutes earlier than they do on Sundays. Their staff already have the carts lined up for people. Each one already wiped with sanitizing wipes. Then people orderly entered the store (one entrance), and immediately you see a billboard where items noted whether in stock or not (so people would refrain from wandering about looking for it, or asking the staff). Alongside it this list is another column with specific sought-after items like paper towels, toilet paper, water, etc...with an arrow for people to follow if they were there to purchase any of the items listed.

They even have the checkout lines marked with red to designate the 6' separation. the bar used to separate shoppers' items on the conveyor were removed so people wouldn't cluster at the register during checkout.

Pretty orderly and well orchestrated. Much lower stress condition than it usually is on weekends at Costco.

There were no senior lines at either Home Depot or Lowe's.
Just stopped by Stater Bros and they are selling paper towels one roll at a time per person.  They did have plenty of eggs though.  They were out of them most of last week.  I do know that Stater Bros does open early in the morning for seniors.  There was a kid spraying and wiping down all the cart handles outside.  Also learned that they get their shipments and night and restock the shelves at night.  So, for the one item they did not have in stock I will give it a shot tomorrow morning.  Very orderly at both Lowe's and Stater Bros.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 31, 2020, 03:28:13 PM
Germany, Spain, Italy, France, UK, Switzerland which have a total population of the USA have one positive case every 3-3.5 seconds.

Without putting these nations together, I think it'll be easier to 'compare' per capita of rate of infection in a given time/period against total population..

US = 360,000,000 against say, Italy = 60,000,000. Both showing 4s / 17s respectively (time). If leaned against population, Italy would be much faster in a miniscule amount of time.

Simply put, 360m / 60m = factor of 6. Thus, per person, Italy is clocking in at the rate of (17 / 6) = 2.83s, US @ 4s. Another way of looking at this is, presumably the US would have more testing stations to accommodate greater population vs Italy - relatively, the likelihood is >6.

This is assuming the testing execution is happening with precisely the same efficiency.

Of course, this is also picking fly sh!t out of peppers.

Edit: So I just peeked at the site BC gave and it had been 'counting' since I last looked. What it said was US 728, Italy 172..so Italy is indeed 'clocking' faster than the US *based on population density*.. 728 / 6 = 121.3 against Italy's 172 in the same given logged time.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on March 31, 2020, 03:28:51 PM
Germany, Spain, Italy, France, UK, Switzerland which have a total population of the USA have one positive case every 3-3.5 seconds.
slightly better than the worst affected countries.   

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on March 31, 2020, 04:31:14 PM
I think I may have found what I tried to look for in a while...A progressive US testing count/State:

http://covidtracking.com/data/

It's alarming to see the rate of New York's positive/negative result with their testing.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 31, 2020, 04:42:05 PM
FP,

The vast majority of testing is being done when folks appear at hospital or doctor with concerning symptoms and not yet general public.

Thus quite comparable. 

Wonder what China's  rate would have been had they tested and reported fully?

Nevertheless, comparisons should be made based on population and other factors.


Quote
I was surprised to see Italy slowing so much.

Great!  You are the canary in the coal  mine. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on March 31, 2020, 04:43:36 PM
he told Belshazzar the last king of Babylon
grandson of the mad king Nebuchadnezzar
that Babylon,
she gonna fall...

and that the trees...
will all be cut down
and the forest
become an empty field
of fresh dirt
and stones

Stages Of Dying
DENIAL
ANGER
DEPRESSION
ACCEPTANCE

100% true verifiable fact
50% of the folks on this board are dumber than average!!!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 31, 2020, 04:48:30 PM
There were no senior lines at either Home Depot or Lowe's.

A couple of stores here allow seniors to enter an hour ahead of store opening.  Florida loves its seniors. 


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on March 31, 2020, 04:53:00 PM

50% of the folks on this board are dumber than average!!!

True, if we are a representative normal distribution.  Our ability to compose in  English is better than yours.   

Being from Lake Wobegon. I am the exception. Do I need to remind you:

         
Quote
 

"Well, that's the news from Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong,
all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average."

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 31, 2020, 04:54:19 PM
A 13 year old boy has just died from Coronavirus in the UK with as far as the parents are aware had no underlying health conditions:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-healthy-boy-13-is-youngest-uk-victim-11966526

The youngest to die to date is apparently a 12 year old girl in Belgium.

A 19 year old guy who worked as a chef also passed away from Coronavirus in the UK around the same time.


The Excel centre is now up and running as a treatment area for those with serious cases. Grimmly it also has a morgue. Considering the survival rate of serious cases is only about a third or so being in a place like that where it's all fairly open plan is a place I would find most depressing to be.

Apparently they are also converting an ice rink into a temporary morgue somewhere in the UK also. So getting pretty grim out there.

However, of recent the number of new cases have steadied, so although many new infections no more rises in infections. Early days but the measures already introduced by the government might already be having some affect which would be good news.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 31, 2020, 04:59:00 PM
he told Belshazzar the last king of Babylon
grandson of the mad king Nebuchadnezzar
that Babylon,
she gonna fall...

and that the trees...
will all be cut down
and the forest
become an empty field
of fresh dirt
and stones

Stages Of Dying
DENIAL
ANGER
DEPRESSION
ACCEPTANCE

100% true verifiable fact
50% of the folks on this board are dumber than average!!!

Krim, are you holding up ok man?

I'm not sure if it is me but your posts of late have come across a little garbled. This stuff can be quite stressful on people particularly over a period of time. Make sure you keep an eye on your wellbeing :)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 31, 2020, 08:00:55 PM

Hopefully Lowes will continue their current access policy.
Lowe's Stores are actually currently hiring.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 31, 2020, 08:24:56 PM
100% true verifiable fact
50% of the folks on this board are dumber than average!!!
  Really uncalled for statement. So who are you ....Mr Genius?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on March 31, 2020, 08:33:26 PM
China's coronavirus cover-up was among worst in history, congressman says...
Quote
The top Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee has accused China of carrying out "one of the worst cover-ups in human history" over the novel coronavirus outbreak and inflicting a pandemic and economic calamity on the world.
Why it matters: Rep. Michael McCaul's rhetoric is characteristic of the growing hawkishness toward China among many in Washington, D.C. even, or especially, amid a crisis that is battering both countries.
Driving the news: McCaul spoke with Axios shortly after China revoked credentials from reporters (http://www.axios.com/china-expel-american-reporters-retaliation-bfca8ce3-e1bf-4101-a07d-e8ea137e5ff7.html) at five U.S. media outlets.
  • "If they expel our journalists, if that's their answer, I worry we will never get to the bottom of this," McCaul said. "But at the end of the day, we will be pointing the finger at China."
Between the lines: China has been criticized in Washington and beyond for prioritizing the containment of information, rather than of the virus itself, when it emerged in Wuhan.
  • It has also been praised for the "war" it belatedly waged on the virus, with Beijing claiming its decisive action "bought the world time."
  • Increasingly confident it's beyond the worst, China is attempting to play a global leadership role (http://www.axios.com/china-world-coronavirus-b47c93a4-ce78-4d6d-897c-27e99ae2962e.html). European politicians, including in Serbia and Italy, have praised China for offering help when the EU could or would not.

More...  http://www.axios.com/china-coronavirus-cover-up-wuhan-pandemic-fa894bb8-998d-494b-8e7a-e834f86d2ea9.html
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 31, 2020, 10:43:59 PM
Cooped up at home? You can help scientists spot penguins from space or seek out new galaxies
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/cooped-home-you-can-help-scientists-spot-penguins-space-or-n1172151


Person dresses as bush to sneak out during the coronavirus lockdown

http://nypost.com/2020/03/30/person-dresses-as-bush-to-sneak-out-during-coronavirus-lockdown/


Scientist Gets Magnets Stuck Up Nose While Inventing Necklace
to Stop People Touching Their Faces

http://www.thedailybeast.com/daniel-reardon-gets-magnets-stuck-up-nose-while-inventing-necklace-to-stop-people-touching-their-faces


Coronavirus: Driver stopped on M6 lockdown
trip with wife in boot (trunk)

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-52088987


Belarus president believes vodka and saunas will cure coronavirus
http://nypost.com/2020/03/30/belarus-president-believes-vodka-and-saunas-will-cure-coronavirus/


Why Not Wearing A Bra During Self-Isolation Is The Best
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/benefits-of-not-wearing-bra-152829641.html


Policeman wears Conovirus helmet
Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2020/03/28/policeman-wears-coronavirus-helmet-warn-people-stay-home-12471259/?ito=cbshare


For the golfers out there: Try this
http://tinyurl.com/sxuh8oj


Drone Pilot Flies Drone With a Roll of Toilet Paper Across San Francisco to a Quarantined Friend in Need
http://laughingsquid.com/drone-delivers-roll-of-toilet-paper/
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 01, 2020, 02:23:13 AM
That doesn't mean you should attack her.  She's not posting here. 

To be pedantic, moby didn't raise the issue of sunflower seeds.  Maxx did.



Good morning, Boethius !

I didn't interpret Mr Mistake as  'attacking' SC .. just trying to  'point score' and failing ..


When I used Gator as an 'example' ..it could have been Maxx .. I certainly felt that they should have been self-isolating before 'ordered' / by their respective nations of residence.  I was certainly NOT trying to 'ostracise' anyone ...  quite the opposite ... Gator mentioned he was using a cart ....( at the time) ..

 [ edited to add: I think it is endearing that his wife cares about him ]

That I even NEED to post such an explanation might back up Krim's viewpoint  :rolleyes:

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 01, 2020, 03:28:31 AM
http://thehill.com/policy/technology/490523-bill-gates-calls-for-nationwide-shutdown-shutdown-anywhere-means-shutdown
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 01, 2020, 04:11:39 AM
"They are no longer singing on the balconies" says Salvatore Melluso,a priest at Caritas Diocesana di Napoil,a church-run charity in Naples.

"Now people are more afraid,not so much of the virus,but of poverty.Many are out of work and hungry.There are long queues at food banks ".

Who knew ?

Well I did predict economies going into meltdown on here.




Meanwhile in lockdown,social-distancing and self-isolation UK(going the same way as Italy ) we've now had 1789 Corona virus deaths since our first case on 30th January...success according to Moby.

Whilst in restauarants,bars,schools,ski-resorts,sports centres,hairdressers ,kindergartens still open Sweden where they've only shut-down Universities and banned gatherings of more than 50 people,they've had 180 Corona virus deaths since their first case on …..30th January.



Ho hum.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 01, 2020, 04:33:44 AM
CB,

Up to date stats for Sweden available here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Sweden#Statistics

That article was written a number of days ago.  Intensive care cases and deaths have risen considerably since then.

They are learning as they go.  First banning groups of 500 then a couple of weeks later 50.  The next may be 5.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on April 01, 2020, 04:44:15 AM
(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49723488621_40b22b1a11_c.jpg)



.


.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on April 01, 2020, 04:48:11 AM
That doesn't mean you should attack her.  She's not posting here. 

To be pedantic, moby didn't raise the issue of sunflower seeds.  Maxx did.


This post was composed without the aid of google.


Boe, I was told to never trust you. Last August this was an issue. Why do you dig up old wounds?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Nightwish on April 01, 2020, 05:05:28 AM
CB,

Up to date stats for Sweden available here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Sweden#Statistics

That article was written a number of days ago.  Intensive care cases and deaths have risen considerably since then.

They are learning as they go.  First banning groups of 500 then a couple of weeks later 50.  The next may be 5.


March 31:
Positive: 4,435
Women :2,107 | Men: 2,328
ICU: 358
Women: 89 | Men: 269
Dead: 180
Women: 75 | Men: 105

http://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa

Update everyday 14:00

We do VERY little testing, only of you are sick enough to get hospitalized or if you work in healthcare
(so those just showing symptoms and are well enough to stay at home, are not tested)

About 30000 tested so far but orders are to ramp up to test between 10-25000 /week

You should know that Swedes are prone to listen and obey recommendations from the government in a much larger extent then for example France, Spain and Italy, a culture thingy..

That is why they seem more lenient on making laws about these things, and to some extent it is working, our curve seems to look the same as Norway and Denmark that are imposing stricter laws where we have recommendations in place instead.

but then of course, my friend who works at IKEA don't really see a big drop in people visiting, but instead those who DO visit are complaining that IKEA don't provide plastic gloves and hand sanitizers   :rolleyes:
People in general are morons after all.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 01, 2020, 05:10:26 AM
BC,

    The article about Sweden was written in the Guardian on 28th March.

Yes..deaths and cases in Sweden through Coronavirus have risen since then..but they've risen a LOT more in the UK with all our lock-down,social distancing and self-isolation,which will lead to a lot more deaths non Corona virus related also.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 01, 2020, 05:19:35 AM
BC,

    The article about Sweden was written in the Guardian on 28th March.

Yes..deaths and cases in Sweden through Coronavirus have risen since then..but they've risen a LOT more in the UK with all our lock-down,social distancing and self-isolation,which will lead to a lot more deaths non Corona virus related also.

CB,

It takes 2-3 weeks to even start seeing a hint of the effect restrictions have, or not.  Compliance to restrictions is another issue IT had to address with controls and increasing fines.

What restrictions are in place and when were they implemented?  Were they true lockdowns?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 01, 2020, 05:27:33 AM
BC,

     All restaurants,bars,clubs,schools etc were ordered to close on the evening of 20th March here in the UK...so this is our 12th day of lockdown.

The Police are even enforcing self-isolation in open countryside here... we musn't go to parks .
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 01, 2020, 05:31:41 AM
BC,

    The article about Sweden was written in the Guardian on 28th March.

Yes..deaths and cases in Sweden through Coronavirus have risen since then..but they've risen a LOT more in the UK with all our lock-down,social distancing and self-isolation,which will lead to a lot more deaths non Corona virus related also.



Sweden's 'experiment' based on the numbers( today) suggest that it has proportionally more deaths that the UK based on it being ( approx) 7 times less ..

Not many folk, rely on reported cases from western nations - given the varied testing regimes - but deaths are pretty accurate




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 01, 2020, 05:37:13 AM
The UK has 26 deaths/1M population..that's before todays figures have been announced.

Sweden has 24 deaths/IM population ...that's after todays figures have been announced.

Sweden still doing better than the UK then..without lockdown etc etc.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 01, 2020, 05:39:32 AM
http://thehill.com/policy/technology/490523-bill-gates-calls-for-nationwide-shutdown-shutdown-anywhere-means-shutdown

The first thought that came to mind is, it’s so easy for Bill to say that considering his personal condition. His house is about 1.5 acres (actual house footage) that sits on almost 6 acres by lake Washington. He probably have an array of helpers fetching whatever strikes his fancy etc...he also have zero concern economically.

His home: http://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/bill-gates-house/

Of course, I agree on social distancing and lockdowns.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 01, 2020, 05:40:44 AM

Boe, I was told to never trust you. Last August this was an issue. Why do you dig up old wounds?

Maxx, Maxx, Maxx

I'm not worried about WHO raised the 'semichki' seeds ...   Mr Mistake simply made stuff up ( again )  and was corrected ...


Nothing 'negative' was construed by me in relation to your name being mentioned ;)   


Chillax ! Far more important things to worry about ..



IF, Mr Mistake sought to highlight that my beloved doesn't always heed my 'advice' ... fine ... he's correct ...  I don't eat all the healthy food she eats .. ( advises me to eat )   :popcorn:   




Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 01, 2020, 05:46:51 AM
BC,

     All restaurants,bars,clubs,schools etc were ordered to close on the evening of 20th March here in the UK...so this is our 12th day of lockdown.

The Police are even enforcing self-isolation in open countryside here... we musn't go to parks .

We started here with a full national lockdown on the 7th IIRC which got very strict prohibiting movement between towns maybe 10 days or so ago.  Only now starting to see a possible trend downward.

Patience...

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 01, 2020, 05:47:19 AM
The UK has 26 deaths/1M population..that's before todays figures have been announced.

Sweden has 24 deaths/IM population ...that's after todays figures have been announced.

Sweden still doing better than the UK then..without lockdown etc etc.

You might want to use the figures provided from the source Nightwish used ?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 01, 2020, 05:54:54 AM
I'm happy enough with Worldometer..it's where all the news outlets seem to be getting their figures from.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Nightwish on April 01, 2020, 06:10:00 AM
I'm happy enough with Worldometer..it's where all the news outlets seem to be getting their figures from.

The figures are not accurate anywhere it seems, regardless of source.

The link I provided is Folkhälsomyndigheten, Department of health, only updated once a day and only what each hospital reports in, so this should be the most accurate I would think, at least that is the official number and probably where most others get their data from, but it still differs depending on what site you look at.

not pointing out anything wrong with your choice, just clarifies my post :)

Population in Sweden per January 2020: 10 333 456

add to that about 120-150 000 illegal immigrants. No one knows for sure.....
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 01, 2020, 06:21:14 AM
Mr Mistake simply made stuff up ( again )  and was corrected ...


Please do tell what was made up?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 01, 2020, 06:26:33 AM
Please do tell what was made up?

Are you trying to 'out do' BillyB in the obfuscate and deny stakes ?

I will not respond on this thread, but if you want to start a 'blah, blah' thread, HAPPY to illustrate your 'memory issues' ...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 01, 2020, 06:27:15 AM
563 Corona virus deaths in the UK in the last 24 hours..bringing the total to 2,352.

That makes our deaths per 1m of population as 36..well ahead of Swedens 24...according to worldometer.

Still no evidence of lockdowns,social distancing or self-isolation making any positive difference...with the ensuing suicides and stress related deaths all still to follow due to crashing economies caused by hysteria.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 01, 2020, 07:11:18 AM
OK, CB

Let's use Nightwish' figures

Deaths in Sweden leapt up by  59 that's ( from 180)   33% in Sweden  http://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa (http://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa)   

UK's increase 589 (was 1789, yesterday)  to 2352 31.4%


Let's keep checking the numbers ...

Is CB saying doing nothing would be the right tactic, given Sweden is reducing the numbers of folks that should be gathering ?



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 01, 2020, 07:30:24 AM
Yes i'm saying total lockdown,social distancing and self-isolation is an over-reaction...caused by mass hysteria.

Swedens way of doing it so far is much more sensible...which is the way Boris Johnson wanted to go until being pressurised otherwise by Macron making threats after the ludicrous Imperial College project fear report.

Macron was crapping himself because he knew if things stayed as they were our economy would still be strong after the virus passes,while his would be in tatters...so he seized on the Imperial college report to make demands on Johnson.

Now both economies will be in tatters.....Boris was weak and should have told Macron we won't be dictated to by him or some dodgy report.

This is the same college that caused the unnecessary slaughter of untold cattle and sheep with their project fear foot and mouth disease claims until the Govt Chief scientist stepped in and stopped the carnage.

People at high-risk of death from the Corona virus,such as over 70's and younger people with underlying serious health problems,could have gone into self-isolation for three months ,whilst the rest of the population could have got on with keeping the country/economy alive.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 01, 2020, 08:13:21 AM
We started here with a full national lockdown on the 7th IIRC which got very strict prohibiting movement between towns maybe 10 days or so ago.  Only now starting to see a possible trend downward.

All restaurants,bars,clubs,schools etc were ordered to close on the evening of 20th March here in the UK...so this is our 12th day of lockdown.

We do VERY little testing, only of you are sick enough to get hospitalized or if you work in healthcare
(so those just showing symptoms and are well enough to stay at home, are not tested)

About 30000 tested so far but orders are to ramp up to test between 10-25000 /week

You should know that Swedes are prone to listen and obey recommendations from the government in a much larger extent then for example France, Spain and Italy, a culture thingy..

Just from this morning's posts, we see our RWD's European members providing interesting and very useful information about their situations. 

 :applause: :applause: :applause:

PLEASE KEEP POSTING
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 01, 2020, 09:15:02 AM
Only now starting to see a possible trend downward.

Patience...

Promising information.  Please keep reporting.   

IS "NUMBER OF HOSPITALIZATIONS" A MORE COMPARABLE VARIABLE?

Testing is important because it is the leading indicator of whether mitigation efforts  are effective.   However, it is apparent that the extent of testing (the denominator) varies widely among the nations, thus limiting comparisons.

In my state of Florida, testing has increased significantly, hitting some constraints along the way, yet still increasing.  Florida has a population of 21 million, about twice Sweden's population,  with more undocumented immigrants than Sweden.  Florida testing:

     65,000 total tests
       6,741 "positive" tests (or 10% of total tests, and 0.3% to date of the population, a percentage
           that will grow.   

Testing has not increased uniformly on a daily basis as different methods are rolled out.   

A variable that should be more consistent (thus, more comparable), is "daily increase in  number of hospitalizations."  I follow hospitalizations in Florida and particularly my county.   The number is still small for my county, such that an outbreak at a senior home would skew the data.  Out of 1.5 million population, only 56 have been admitted to a hospital with 3 deaths. 

Also, I reside north of the densely populated districts within my county,  a few miles from a county that has an even lower rate of hospitalizations.   

Do I assume my risk as negligible?   Florida was one of the states that recently had media reports of its residents and out-of-state tourists congregating on the beaches.  And we had a pastor arrested for holding Sunday services at his megachurch.   Hospitalizations have increased by 25% over the past three days.  Our numbers will increase. I must stay vigilant.  I must  distant socially. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 01, 2020, 10:02:25 AM
Do I assume my risk as negligible?   

absolutely not...

Hospitalizations will follow new infections, so is an indicator up to the capacity of the hospitals (which end up full) of course with rest more minor cases sent home.  I would think the number of positive cases (minus deaths and recovered) would be the next indicator to look for in the trend and lastly increase in recoveries vs deaths.

We seem to be in a painfully slow decline stable at between 4-5000 new cases daily with no definite downward trend ..  which is I guess to be expected in a 'flattened' curve scenario  : /

I take it the longer the flat part lasts indicates the effectiveness of the lockdown.  We have at least another month to go for the contained fire to peter out.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 01, 2020, 10:07:50 AM
Hard to follow that graph every day, BC. To quote an old Chinese proverb, 'a watched pot never boils'.

It will dive down eventually.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 01, 2020, 10:37:23 AM
Yes, it is hard GQ, but not even half as painful as watching the US numbers that just keep going up and up with no end in sight. Add that in relative terms we (US) are just at the beginning.  My guesstimate, at least another 10 days before starting to reach the beginning of a peak and we're already up to 1000 deaths/day. 

The doubling rate for the US is 5 days, so looking at this rate looking at 400,000 in 5 days and 800,000 in 10.  In two weeks could be somewhere in the 2 million range.

Italy has slowed to a 15-day doubling rate and will hopefully keep slowing to infinity before it doubles again.

Current doubling rate is shown at the bottom of this page http://www.politico.com/interactives/2020/number-of-coronavirus-cases-by-country/
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 01, 2020, 10:42:35 AM
Yes i'm saying total lockdown,social distancing and self-isolation is an over-reaction...caused by mass hysteria.

Swedens way of doing it so far is much more sensible...which is the way Boris Johnson wanted to go until being pressurised otherwise by Macron making threats after the ludicrous Imperial College project fear report.

Macron was crapping himself because he knew if things stayed as they were our economy would still be strong after the virus passes,while his would be in tatters...so he seized on the Imperial college report to make demands on Johnson.

Now both economies will be in tatters.....Boris was weak and should have told Macron we won't be dictated to by him or some dodgy report.

This is the same college that caused the unnecessary slaughter of untold cattle and sheep with their project fear foot and mouth disease claims until the Govt Chief scientist stepped in and stopped the carnage.

People at high-risk of death from the Corona virus,such as over 70's and younger people with underlying serious health problems,could have gone into self-isolation for three months ,whilst the rest of the population could have got on with keeping the country/economy alive.

Ri-ight ... so you are now suggesting BoJo 'obeyed' Macron ?  ...  Mr 'Brexit' ..? )))

1/ Young people were not considered at risk

2/ 'Sending over 70's into self-isolation earlier' .. and WHO was going to stay with them for all that time ?   As someone doing just that ...

3/  The UK has been on 'lock down' for only 10 days... given MUPPETS that feel as you seem to were crawling all over the Lake district, Wales, The Broads and cramming onto beaches ( even) ... 

It's FAR too early to know if Sweden's got it right - but looking at the numbers it's death rates are still similar ( if not sl. higher ) than the UK

I suggest you'd have been better off in Belarus ... nobody's dying there...right ? ....

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Nightwish on April 01, 2020, 10:43:37 AM

Our schools, preschool and elementary is still fully open including daycare centers, and no "shutdown" is in sight, and compared to our closest neighbors Norway and Denmark, it doesn't seem to have any negative effect as of now.

and for those who do not know, every child from 1 year old has the right to go to daycare up to 4 hours even if you are unemployed - involuntary or by choice -
So here it's business as usual when it comes to that, but of course many parents who are home either workless or working are choosing to keep their daycare-old kids at home as well, but school is still mandatory.
Higher education (college and university is closed and done by distance)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on April 01, 2020, 10:49:45 AM
Still no evidence of lockdowns,social distancing or self-isolation making any positive difference...with the ensuing suicides and stress related deaths all still to follow due to crashing economies caused by hysteria.


According to an epidemiologist that I know, one person with the flu can infect up to three other people.  One person with COVID-19 can infect up to 59,000 people.  That is why all these measures are being taken. 


I don't really believe governments would ask us to isolate and close down the economy.  It's not in their self interests.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 01, 2020, 10:56:27 AM
Yes it is hard GQ, but not even half as painful as watching the US numbers that just keep going up and up with no end in sight. Add that in relative terms we (US) are just at the beginning.  My guesstimate, at least another 10 days before starting to reach the beginning of a peak and we're already up to 1000 deaths/day.

I'm sure you're aware they are reporting anywhere between 100k-250k death toll when all is said and done. They already extended the period to 30 days (EO April). They've (models) been wrong before, so hopefully it isn't the last time.

We'll see...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 01, 2020, 11:08:38 AM
GQ,

see my edits above.

Yes, a quarter million dead would be very sad indeed...  I expect the death toll here to reach somewhere in the 25-30,000 range. Multiplying by 5.5 population results in 137,500 - 165,000 deaths in US at the same rate.

Anything above these numbers would be very bad, especially considering demographics with a much older population here.

But yes, we'll see...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 01, 2020, 11:22:50 AM
Our schools, preschool and elementary is still fully open including daycare centers, and no "shutdown" is in sight, and compared to our closest neighbors Norway and Denmark, it doesn't seem to have any negative effect as of now.

and for those who do not know, every child from 1 year old has the right to go to daycare up to 4 hours even if you are unemployed - involuntary or by choice -

So here it's business as usual when it comes to that, but of course many parents who are home either workless or working are choosing to keep their daycare-old kids at home as well, but school is still mandatory.

Higher education (college and university is closed and done by distance)

Obviously because of the suspension and closures of all schools in the US, here in California, it was just announced that UC-universities will be 'waiving' their usual strict admission requirements for incoming freshmen ( freshpersons - sans sexism :::rolleyes:::).

I quote:
Quote
In response, the system's regents are taking efforts to ease the burden on students seeking college admission. The letter grade requirement will be suspended for winter, spring and summer 2020 classes for all students. Standardized testing won't be required for fall 2021 freshman admission. The cap on the number of transferable pass/no pass units will be suspended for transfer students.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 01, 2020, 11:42:23 AM
Yes, it is hard GQ, but not even half as painful as watching the US numbers that just keep going up and up with no end in sight.

The approach to addressing the epidemic varies widely among states.  Much of the growth in "numbers"   is accounted for by New York and New Jersey being second. 

WA, the first state to report a COVID case and death, would seem vulnerable.   It has a much lower growth rate of "Cumulative Cases per 100,000" than NY and NJ.   

This is displayed in Slide No. 3 of five charts presented by Dr. Birx in yesterday's Task Force briefing.  You should examine all five charts, one being of Italy.  These were used to support the estimate of at least 100,000 deaths in the US.

http://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=6823042-0331-Briefing-BIRX-Final
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 01, 2020, 11:57:13 AM
Looking at Chris Murray's model (pg 3)...if the 'peaked' 'day' death toll is at 2,214 (April 15th) and used that number to a 30-day extension (April 1-30), the projected total would be 66,420 total death.

But, if you level and get an average, which would roughly be in the 600/day median, then multiply it to 105 days  (march 15-July 1), then you're looking at 63,000 total deaths.

Either way, more than likely 65-70% of these number will occur in NY/NJ if the current numbers prevail.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 01, 2020, 12:11:53 PM
I think there is definitely more scope for more businesses to stay open in the UK while changing the way they work to a more social isolation way. I've been quite impressed with the way some DIY chains have continued to operate using click & collect & other stores that have the store staff collect the goods for customers that just turn up.

However, there are other businesses such as B&Q that have been too awkward let limiting stock availability just what they deem 'essential'. It tends to be the case that if a person needs something then it is essential to them to get it.

I said earlier in this thread that this virus could change the way we do stuff permanently. There's no reason a lot of human contact can't be cut out and automate the process a lot more. In a sense its a case of moving the model more towards the Amazon model. That's the future model of how things need to be done, we just need to move there a bit quicker than would have been the case. If an effort is made now businesses could quickly convert the way they do business this way and do a lot more trade. Having everyone toe a 'we all shut down and let watch while the economy tanks it' is just going to cause another crises post Corona virus crises. That is something we really need to do without too.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on April 01, 2020, 12:26:39 PM
Humans need social interaction.  There will always be face to face meetings and face to face business.  Look at how people claim their mental health has been adversely affected by the lockdown, and how many ignore edicts to stay indoors.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 01, 2020, 12:32:39 PM
Gator,

The last two days not shown on slide Nr 3 are essentially flat taking into consideration a higher number of tests.  If data tomorrow shows 4-5000 new cases we are very likely in a longer flattening phase.

A spike then lower flattening would correlate well with actual happenings, first, an ineffective local quarantine in Lombardia causing the high spike and lower flattening due to the more restrictive nationwide lockdown.

I believe it will look more like below..
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 01, 2020, 12:47:00 PM
I think there is definitely more scope for more businesses to stay open in the UK while changing the way they work to a more social isolation way. I've been quite impressed with the way some DIY chains have continued to operate using click & collect & other stores that have the store staff collect the goods for customers that just turn up.

What is 'essential' about visiting a DIY store, Trench ? Order it online and help protect the staff

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 01, 2020, 12:51:37 PM
Guys and gals, me thinks that some of you are getting far too wrapped up in trying to keep up with and make any judgments about all the 'statistics' being thrown around.

How about we just hear about the thread heading?

What are each of you doing?

Ochka and I have only been to grocery store twice since this mess started.

We stocked up on enough food (already had a lot, plus her canned items) to last for a month or more, except for milk and eggs.

I did order on ebay a  56 oz container of Nestle powdered milk.  Haven't had such since I was a child when we were dirt poor.  Back then it tasted terrible.  Haven't drank any of this new stuff straight, but Ochka used some to make puddings and blini, and we agreed it did nothing to harm the taste.

Also ordered on ebay 9 packets of yeast since our local markets were completely out.

I just now thought that I should look into powdered eggs.

With powdered milk and powdered eggs (along with everything else we have) we might last half a year without leaving the house!!!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 01, 2020, 01:06:52 PM
ML, you make a good point ( I'll try !)

Italy hasn't had food shortages (esp not t/roll) that I'm aware of .. according to my Rome contact.

The UK / US(?) / AUS has had selfish loonies emptying shelves ( despite govt imploring to be less greedy )  ..  I

In the UK, 'we' are apparently, seeing shelves return to normal ...   I don't know ( for sure ) as I'm self-isolating to protect my ma and we've given up on normal stores - relying on food wholesalers who have loads of stock of flour, pasta, tomato puree, cooking oil - just in larger quantities.  We go there ... having ordered the day before .. they bring it out in a cage and even load it. 

Our govt doesn't seem to know if construction is essential .. the road workers laying fibre optic cables in our villager cleared off and returned a week later ...






Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 01, 2020, 01:16:26 PM
Here obviously a bit bored.

The rest is just staying home. Wife goes shopping once a week. Stores are pretty much fully stocked with everything so nothing to stock up on.  Baking our own bread now to reduce trips into town.  A lot more contact via chat and video with friends and family elsewhere which is good.  Grass keeps growing so ordered a new lawnmower since the garden folks can't come - not listed as an essential business.  Need a bit more exercise anyway.  As the weather gets better will finish pool cleaning, maintenance and setting up the outside for summer.  No pool parties this year :/
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 01, 2020, 01:23:08 PM
Guys and gals, me thinks that some of you are getting far too wrapped up in trying to keep up with and make any judgments about all the 'statistics' being thrown around.

How about we just hear about the thread heading?

What are each of you doing?

Ochka and I have only been to grocery store twice since this mess started.

We stocked up on enough food (already had a lot, plus her canned items) to last for a month or more, except for milk and eggs.

I did order on ebay a  56 oz container of Nestle powdered milk.  Haven't had such since I was a child when we were dirt poor.  Back then it tasted terrible.  Haven't drank any of this new stuff straight, but Ochka used some to make puddings and blini, and we agreed it did nothing to harm the taste.

Also ordered on ebay 9 packets of yeast since our local markets were completely out.

I just now thought that I should look into powdered eggs.

With powdered milk and powdered eggs (along with everything else we have) we might last half a year without leaving the house!!!

We're good with supplies. With the exception of produce, we have been consistent with domestic stock matters even before the pandemic.

Even pet supplies, for the most part, is in good state. Although Chewy.com was/is having a hard time making their usual 2-day deliveries, so I tripled my usual order to hopefully pass through this period.

Safer-at-home ordinance just gave us a means to do some serious spring cleaning ourselves. Wifey however is already starting make her excuses telling me she'll need a lot of time to read up on a whole slew of tax rule changes due to the Care Act recently passed.

A week before this madness kicked in, I actually ordered a sewing machine from Home Depot. It's still sitting in the garage boxed, which now can be put to good use hemming some pants I'd like to turn into shorts. I've been putting this off for a while now so now is a good time.

I get my haircut from the same gal that does my wife's hair. She already texted us saying she'd be happy to drive out to the house if and when she/we need to get our hair taken care of.

Netflix, VUDU, Amazon Prime and cable takes care of the entertainment side of this. Outside of golf, chiro and massages will be what I would miss the most.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 01, 2020, 01:26:55 PM
What is 'essential' about visiting a DIY store, Trench ? Order it online and help protect the staff

And either have to buy a load of stuff or pay a steep delivery charge, no thanks ;D

Besides it's no real difference to delivery, there are people handling the goods either way.

With click & collect they do it contactless - you stand behind a line, staff member walks up to a table pops the good on there then walks back. You go to the table just inside the front of the store pick up the goods they have left after they walk off. Any other people waiting que at least 2 Metres behind. So only hand contact on the product same as home delivery. The wear gloves, I wear gloves, so same difference :)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 01, 2020, 01:31:29 PM

I believe it will look more like below..

You are as smart as the White House Dr. Birx.  Yesterday, she drew the same for Italy.   :clapping:

(See 5th chart in http://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=6823042-0331-Briefing-BIRX-Final)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 01, 2020, 01:33:58 PM
Humans need social interaction.  There will always be face to face meetings and face to face business.  Look at how people claim their mental health has been adversely affected by the lockdown, and how many ignore edicts to stay indoors.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Some people are precious little snowflakes who will whine about their mental health at anything. They just need to toughen up a bit and deal with society how it is.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 01, 2020, 02:03:46 PM
My wife insists I not go to the store, so she asked me to order online from BJs (a nearby warehouse type food store).  The BJs site was cumbersome and they had no delivery times available this week!!!!!!!

She went online to Instacart, a service for grocery deliveries.  She ordered, and all was delivered within 2 hours.

A couple items were not what she would have selected if in the store, and perhaps such could be determined by closer scrutiny of the photos and descriptions

I was forbidden from bringing in the packages or disinfecting them, involving sprays and wipes.   :D  Hope we can survive 30 days of this.  I am gald I have much patience, yet the situation is testing my limits

There is an added fee.   On $250 of meat, dairy, veggies...Instacart added a $12 fee.  Not bad.  Next, a $15 tip to the delivery person.  Some hidden fees?  Maybe.  I did not study the prices.  My wife claims they are the same as store prices, yet a couple items seemed higher.  I paid on-line with my BJs card, but we will see in the monthly accounting whether I received the 5% savings on all items.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on April 01, 2020, 02:16:41 PM
Some people are precious little snowflakes who will whine about their mental health at anything. They just need to toughen up a bit and deal with society how it is.

Perhaps.  But, it is what it is. 

Just because you are not a social animal, doesn't mean others are not.  Society is best served when people interact with one another.


In our home, I am working from home.  The better half has to go to work, although he leaves quite a bit later, as there's not traffic.

We go grocery shopping once a week, hubby goes to the bakery weekly, and he goes to buy milk (for him and son) mid week (we buy on our shopping trip plus mid week).

There are no shortages of food here.  The only things still difficult to obtain are disinfectant wipes, rubbing alcohol, some cleaning products (disinfectant types), and thermometers.  I still have some wipes (pre COVID-19), but since I am not going out, it's not much of an issue.  I have enough cleaning products to last at least a month, and we have a few thermometers.  I assume Walmart would have some of these products, but I rarely go to Walmart at the best of times.

People do go out for walks, but social distancing is being practiced.  No lawns are being mowed, it's snowed for 2 days, there's about a half meter of snow on the ground, and it is -11C today.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 01, 2020, 02:42:48 PM
You are as smart as the White House Dr. Birx.  Yesterday, she drew the same for Italy.   :clapping:

(See 5th chart in http://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=6823042-0331-Briefing-BIRX-Final)

Caught the irony :)

Brix just missed the flat trailing part in the image which leaves the impression that it will fall off further now. Maybe she mentioned it.  I pretty much stopped watching the briefings/rally.  They all pretty much seem to blend into each other with little added value in my opinion.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 01, 2020, 02:57:30 PM
Perhaps.  But, it is what it is. 

Just because you are not a social animal, doesn't mean others are not.  Society is best served when people interact with one another.

Yeah, but it's more fun to see socialable types being tortured by not being able to socialize as usual for a while :D

Will teach them not to complain of those that aren't that good socially, lol.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 01, 2020, 03:13:31 PM
BC, Chelseaboy is right, the cracks are starting to appear in Italy and only three weeks in:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/01/singing-stops-italy-fear-social-unrest-mount-coronavirus-lockdown


A March on Rome could follow, albeit marching two metres apart.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 01, 2020, 06:20:17 PM
Just goes to show you can't beat the good old Soviet Union:

http://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-rescues-soviet-era-ventilator-design-from-disused-factory-to-prepare-for-coronavirus-pandemic/30520264.html

They'll have the place up and running again in no time! :)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 01, 2020, 06:49:12 PM
http://thehill.com/policy/technology/490523-bill-gates-calls-for-nationwide-shutdown-shutdown-anywhere-means-shutdown


Bill Gates wanting all of America completely shutdown is like asking all nations in Europe to shut down at the same time although the outbreaks between nations stagger. Gate's plan would reduce the number of infected but it won't eliminate the virus. Since the virus escaped China in January, it took only two months to bring entire nations on it's knees. Currently there is no solution to stop the virus entirely.

Although Italy did a good job reporting infections and deaths compared to other nations, thousands dead haven't been reported. I'm sure all nations have underreported to some degree.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/italys-coronavirus-death-toll-is-far-higher-than-reported/ar-BB122vvc?ocid=spartanntp

Guys and gals, me thinks that some of you are getting far too wrapped up in trying to keep up with and make any judgments about all the 'statistics' being thrown around.


This thread gets more attention because everybody can read it. I proposed a number of times Gator's coronavirus thread get put in odds and ends. It doesn't get exposure in the anything goes forum since those not logged in can't read it.

(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49723488621_40b22b1a11_c.jpg)




With the exception of coronavirus, hospitals worldwide can handle all those things no problem. Coronavirus is in it's infancy. You think hospitals are overwhelmed now? 1 out of every 8300 people on earth experienced coronavirus. Just wait till everybody gets a taste of coronavirus. Most nations on earth haven't had their first outbreak yet so the numbers will continue to skyrocket. Also keep in mind, deaths aren't the only thing we worry about. Just a handful of sailors got the virus and an entire aircraft carrier has to go park somewhere and unload. If a handful of sailors got the flu, got drunk, got abortions, got cancer or got HIV, the aircraft carrier would still be combat ready for war.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on April 01, 2020, 11:01:13 PM
I am listening to Coast to Coast (which I don't do often, but it can be interesting). 

Dr. Shiva Ayyadurai is being interviewed.  I thought I'd listen, based on the description of the program -

Quote
World-renowned systems scientist Dr.Shiva Ayyadurai (http://vashiva.com/) discusses exactly what a coronavirus is, our response to it, and why vaccination may not be the best solution to the pandemic.

That's not what's being discussed, it's more of a conspiracy theory.  I'm not certain I agree with what he is saying, but he is sort of in line with Chelseaboy, i.e., COVID-19 is being manipulated by elites who don't like populist leaders.

If you get a chance tonight, listen to him.  Even if you don't agree, it's thought provoking and he's not a kook.

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/upcoming# (http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/upcoming#)   

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/stations (http://www.coasttocoastam.com/stations)  (where you can listen).  On the West coast, the show has not aired yet.

Here is Dr. Ayyadurai's website -

http://vashiva.com/ (http://vashiva.com/)

This post was composed without the aid of google.


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 01, 2020, 11:05:01 PM


I get my haircut from the same gal that does my wife's hair. She already texted us saying she'd be happy to drive out to the house if and when she/we need to get our hair taken care of.


Do you / your hairdresser understand the concept of social distancing ?  :wallbash:
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 01, 2020, 11:12:10 PM
And either have to buy a load of stuff or pay a steep delivery charge, no thanks ;D

Besides it's no real difference to delivery, there are people handling the goods either way.

With click & collect they do it contactless - you stand behind a line, staff member walks up to a table pops the good on there then walks back. You go to the table just inside the front of the store pick up the goods they have left after they walk off. Any other people waiting que at least 2 Metres behind. So only hand contact on the product same as home delivery. The wear gloves, I wear gloves, so same difference :)

Loads of words, but you didn't answer the Q ..

What is 'essential' about DIY?   I get food shopping, pharmacies, utilities and health workers plus civil servants..


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 02, 2020, 12:24:05 AM
Loads of words, but you didn't answer the Q ..

What is 'essential' about DIY?   I get food shopping, pharmacies, utilities and health workers plus civil servants..

DIY work is essential to me to finish off getting my house converted. We can't all sit around for the next few months like we're retired, work has still got to be done and the economy kept moving.

Health workers? You've not yet learnt how to wipe your own bum yet Mobers ;D
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 02, 2020, 12:31:31 AM
BC, Chelseaboy is right, the cracks are starting to appear in Italy and only three weeks in:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/01/singing-stops-italy-fear-social-unrest-mount-coronavirus-lockdown

A March on Rome could follow, albeit marching two metres apart.

Trying to promote doom, gloom murder and mayhem again so you can feel better about yourself?  Trying to raise your self-esteem on the backs of others less fortunate is sick.  Go see the head doc and fix the true problem between your ears.

Food lines are everywhere, it does not mean nations and unions will fall apart.  Sure, times are hard so instead, do what many here are doing, go help a needy neighbour.

http://www.newsweek.com/pennsylvania-food-bank-draws-mile-long-line-cars-trump-approves-states-coronavirus-disaster-1495222 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 02, 2020, 12:40:48 AM
Trying to promote doom, gloom murder and mayhem again so you can feel better about yourself?  Trying to raise your self-esteem on the backs of others less fortunate is sick.  Go see the head doc and fix the true problem between your ears.

Not at all, I just think it's only fair that you have the heads up on what could very likely be coming your way. As a rich American guy living of a good pension, etc in a foreign country you have so far been able to isolate yourself from what is happening out in Italian society. That won't last though if things go badly downhill, the problems out in Italian society will be brought to your door sooner or later. Best you open your eyes now to the state of affairs and if you can prepare yourself.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 02, 2020, 12:53:06 AM
Not at all, I just think it's only fair that you have the heads up on what could very likely be coming your way. As a rich American guy living of a good pension, etc in a foreign country you have so far been able to isolate yourself from what is happening out in Italian society. That won't last though if things go badly downhill, the problems out in Italian society will be brought to your door sooner or later. Best you open your eyes now to the state of affairs and if you can prepare yourself.
'

Trench,

My Rome correspondent' ..not the worst affected region, by any means ..hasn't suggested detecting such tension ... 


You should be more concerned about the Welsh wanting to throw out Englishmen who go back and forth to their parents when we're supposed to be socially distancing..

You are bored and it shows ..

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 02, 2020, 01:40:26 AM
Bill Gates wanting all of America completely shutdown is like asking all nations in Europe to shut down at the same time although the outbreaks between nations stagger. Gate's plan would reduce the number of infected but it won't eliminate the virus. Since the virus escaped China in January, it took only two months to bring entire nations on it's knees. Currently there is no solution to stop the virus entirely.

Although Italy did a good job reporting infections and deaths compared to other nations, thousands dead haven't been reported. I'm sure all nations have underreported to some degree.


Billy,

all along you have been right about one thing:  As long as someone has an active case the virus can't be eradicated.  The other Bill is also correct, that with stringent measures we can get ahead of this bug in an effective way.  In theory, a virus can be eradicated, but yes it is a lot of work.

In Europe, there are pretty strict controls at most borders.  Although not as draconian as China, lockdown efforts are working.  Next will be a wave of widespread testing for still active/asymptomatic cases, those with antibodies and those that remain at risk to further limit the spread and most importantly reinfections and local flare-ups. This is already happening in Germany and some places started in Italy but stopped due to lack of testing materials.  I expect that will be resolved.  Some EU countries are already planning their exit strategies and the next phases of recovery.  Italy is phasing in a mobile tracking app to try and get a handle on it, much like was done in eastern countries like S. Korea.  Although it may not be mandatory to use it, it may well end up that employers will want to know the status of their employees.  We now have to print carry a form in case of controls to confirm travels are necessary.  The app has a QR code generator that would make it easier when stopped by police - scan n go.

http://www.giornalettismo.com/app-contagio-privacy-come-funziona/

Since yesterday, Italy went from a 15-day doubling rate to 17 days and should continue to rise even faster.  As long as the borders are tightly controlled, wider testing and including antibody testing implemented and restrictions lifted in a logical and conservative fashion I'm pretty confident we can stay ahead of the bug over here and hopefully prevent reinfection from other countries that are a bit behind.

Normally northern Italy has very crowded airspace with 8 or so busy airports and international hubs.  Now mostly filled with cargo planes and rescue helicopters ferrying patients.  Compare that to US airspace.  The US faces a much higher risk of reinfections almost everywhere since state borders are likely not being controlled and air passengers still able to pretty much go wherever they want.  I would hate to see NYC get a handle on this bug and recover just to be hit with a new wave. 



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 02, 2020, 02:24:17 AM
Best you open your eyes now to the state of affairs and if you can prepare yourself.

Trench,

Again, you haven't a clue.

Over here I'm Irish. You know - one of those poor suckers you look down upon and make jokes about along with Polish jokes (interchangeable btw) when out with your chest-puffing friends. (oops forgot that you don't have any)

We have many friends, immigrant and Italians.  If any of them finds themselves in trouble or needing food or such we'll share and vice versa.  When I go to the local Muslim store to buy great olives from Marocco and bread today, I'll again leave a couple hundred behind to anonymously help fill the grocery baskets of less fortunate families I have never met.

What will you do to help a needy neighbour today?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Nightwish on April 02, 2020, 05:00:59 AM

Been working from home 3,5 weeks now, been to the store twice - since I don't live in the city I can't use home delivery so I put an order online and just picked it up when it was packed and ready to go, met exactly 1 person  :rolleyes:

There is no shortages of anything so I buy enough to get me by for about two weeks - no hording here- , then refill what is needed.

Right before both Ukraine and Sweden closed borders my girl was here for a month, little did we know it would be 4-5 months (as it seems right now) before we could be together again  :(
So that is the biggest struggle for me, is not having her here or being there.
Thinking of ways to smuggle her in some way so we can spend this "quarantine" together. Getting quite bored spending 24/7 at home alone.





Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 02, 2020, 05:14:06 AM
Can imagine that's tough Nightwish..    Will probably be a while but it will pass.  I remember when we were a couple of months apart early on..

I assume she is with her family?  If so maybe best at the moment?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 02, 2020, 05:39:08 AM
OK, CB

Let's use Nightwish' figures

Deaths in Sweden leapt up by  59 that's ( from 180)   33% in Sweden  http://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa (http://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa)   

UK's increase 589 (was 1789, yesterday)  to 2352 31.4%


Let's keep checking the numbers ...

Is CB say'sing doing nothing would be the right tactic, given Sweden is reducing the numbers of folks that should be gathering ?

So, Sweden deaths now at 282 up 182 [edited: as should be up 102]- as pointed out by GQB   from 180 ...... that's nearly 57 percent  over ONE HUNDRED percent in a day ...

I realise that's far too early to draw conclusions but if that rate kept up...  things will need to change

http://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa

'Avlidna' is deaths


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 02, 2020, 05:43:17 AM

 little did we know it would be 4-5 months (as it seems right now) before we could be together again  :(
So that is the biggest struggle for me, is not having her here or being there.
Thinking of ways to smuggle her in some way so we can spend this "quarantine" together. Getting quite bored spending 24/7 at home alone.

According to some on here ... "you should have planned, better"

I get your pain, ( I was talking to a guy who's wife is in Russia caring for her Mum) but if she's your g/f, I guess she would not have been allowed to stay ((
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 02, 2020, 05:55:46 AM
So, Sweden deaths now at 282 up 182 from 180 ...... that's over ONE HUNDRED percent in a day ...

LMAO! See what I mean?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 02, 2020, 06:26:00 AM
LMAO! See what I mean?

So math isn't his favorite subject. You don't need math to win internet arguments. Just fantasy, denial and obfuscation

 :ROFL:
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Nightwish on April 02, 2020, 06:43:36 AM
Can imagine that's tough Nightwish..    Will probably be a while but it will pass.  I remember when we were a couple of months apart early on..

I assume she is with her family?  If so maybe best at the moment?

That is the worst part, I am home alone, she is home alone - her daughter is isolated in the Uni in St Pete and her mom living with a close friend and her family in a small village in Ukraine.

So we both just sit here in videochat 10-15 hours a day talking and watching each other work/cook/doing choirs or just watching movies together.. :D

Her business is closed for now so she does her part time work with the bank she works for, but that is things she only do by remote and can do from anywhere in the world..
so it kinda sucks...  :rolleyes:
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Nightwish on April 02, 2020, 06:50:22 AM
According to some on here ... "you should have planned, better"

I get your pain, ( I was talking to a guy who's wife is in Russia caring for her Mum) but if she's your g/f, I guess she would not have been allowed to stay ((

She is "only" my girlfriend so far - would have been change of status this summer, now postponed until late fall, but she already has residence permit here as living with partner ;)

She still has her business there, even if that now is closed down, and she kept her part time work with the bank which is all done remotely (as a risk analyst)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 02, 2020, 06:59:44 AM
So math isn't his favorite subject. You don't need math to win internet arguments. Just fantasy, denial and obfuscation

 :ROFL:

Gosh, I posted an arithmetical error ..  'Mea culpa' .... why do 'you lot' misspell everything ? 'math'  (?) AND  use the incorrect term for arithmetic? 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 02, 2020, 07:01:03 AM

So we both just sit here in videochat 10-15 hours a day talking and watching each other work/cook/doing choirs or just watching movies together.. :D


Wow... you are lucky.  Back when we first got together the area my wife lived in didn't have internet and even I had a pretty rotten one.  Just phone calls, the expensive kind : /

10-15 hours a day is a lot... I don't think I even talk to my wife that much in two, maybe three days : / 

See.. there is a brighter side of things - you're not that bad off at all :)))))))))))))
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 02, 2020, 07:22:13 AM
Trench,

Again, you haven't a clue.

Over here I'm Irish. You know - one of those poor suckers you look down upon and make jokes about along with Polish jokes (interchangeable btw) when out with your chest-puffing friends. (oops forgot that you don't have any)

We have many friends, immigrant and Italians.  If any of them finds themselves in trouble or needing food or such we'll share and vice versa.  When I go to the local Muslim store to buy great olives from Marocco and bread today, I'll again leave a couple hundred behind to anonymously help fill the grocery baskets of less fortunate families I have never met.

What will you do to help a needy neighbour today?

BC, rich people think they have friends when really they are there because they are wealthy, likely influencential and throwing their money around. The moment rich people are no longer rich and can no longer do that is the moment they find out how many 'friends' they really have. Most are left shocked :o
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 02, 2020, 07:25:21 AM
'

Trench,

My Rome correspondent' ..not the worst affected region, by any means ..hasn't suggested detecting such tension ... 


You should be more concerned about the Welsh wanting to throw out Englishmen who go back and forth to their parents when we're supposed to be socially distancing..

You are bored and it shows ..

Of you, never Mobers ;D

I am the only one in my car going back & forth and I am the only one at my pad in Wales so hence I am social distancing.

You know most Welsh are really English Mobers ;)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 02, 2020, 07:32:43 AM
Lockdown UK deaths increased by 569 today,making a total of 2921... 43/1m pop

Non- lockdown Sweden deaths increased by 43 today,making a total of 282.... 28/1m pop.

The gap has widened....and still no sign that economy crashes/people losing jobs/ were necessary.

Moby's lack of basic Arithmetic skills have been noted.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 02, 2020, 07:37:41 AM
Of you, never Mobers ;D

I am the only one in my car going back & forth and I am the only one at my pad in Wales so hence I am social distancing.

You know most Welsh are really English Mobers ;)

Actually, the English spoke what is v.similar to Welsh before successive invaders .. you might actually have learnt something today !
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 02, 2020, 07:45:29 AM
As I said Trench - you don't have a clue.

Observing your posts, you have a view of the world that is as distorted as the sad couch you are always sitting on.

It is not my usual manner to browbeat, but over the years you have been given a ton of good advice and ignored every bit.. and still retain your tiny view of a world you know precious little about, much less possess the ability cope with it.

I do suggest professional help - seriously.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 02, 2020, 08:04:26 AM
When I go to the local Muslim store to buy great olives from Marocco and bread today, I'll again leave a couple hundred behind to anonymously help fill the grocery baskets of less fortunate families I have never met.

Yep, rich man going in wallet waving again ::)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 02, 2020, 08:07:41 AM
Yep, rich man going in wallet waving again ::)

Trench thinks his building 'Trench Terrace' in a Welsh valley will qualify him to live in Ukraine and wave £ notes...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 02, 2020, 08:15:33 AM

She is "only" my girlfriend so far - would have been change of status this summer, now postponed until late fall, but she already has residence permit here as living with partner
;)

She still has her business there, even if that now is closed down, and she kept her part time work with the bank which is all done remotely (as a risk analyst)

That's a very interesting system, Nightwish! Did she acquire that status because of your relationship, or did she already have a residence permit beforehand?

Anyway, I hope somehow you both can be together again soon.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 02, 2020, 08:17:51 AM
Yep, rich man going in wallet waving again ::)

The part you missed is:

Quote
to anonymously help fill the grocery baskets

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 02, 2020, 08:27:28 AM
Sky News reporter in New York saying that the predicted job losses in the USA because of lockdowns will be 12-15 %,which is akin to the great depression.

Not good.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 02, 2020, 08:32:12 AM
Some people seem to have an alternate view of 'help' ?

http://metro.co.uk/2020/04/02/paranoid-train-driver-drove-speeding-loco-off-tracks-try-destroy-coronavirus-hospital-ship-12498986/ (http://metro.co.uk/2020/04/02/paranoid-train-driver-drove-speeding-loco-off-tracks-try-destroy-coronavirus-hospital-ship-12498986/)

‘Paranoid train driver drove speeding loco off tracks to try and destroy coronavirus hospital ship’


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Nightwish on April 02, 2020, 08:56:22 AM
That's a very interesting system, Nightwish! Did she acquire that status because of your relationship, or did she already have a residence permit beforehand?

Anyway, I hope somehow you both can be together again soon.
sorry for a little off topic here but..

In Sweden, cohabitant partner and Married are almost equal in rights. There are some differences when it comes to heritage and other financial details, but in most they are considered the same, with the same rights. So here, getting married are really just a "piece of paper" that don't really mean much in the meaning of laws, token of love sure, a more binding commitment yes, harder to separate absolutely, but other than that, cohabitant partners have almost the same protection.
It only becomes a "problem" when you separate, that is where there is no law in place such as a divorce in court will have.
Just last year, Sweden introduced online divorce - if both partners are in agreement, no children under 18 (or older but still in school) you just register the divorce online, both sign with e-ID and the process takes ~2-3 weeks and then you get papers back that you are divorced :)

Spouses, regis­tered part­ners or coha­bi­ting part­ners
You may be granted a residence permit if you are married, have entered into a registered partnership, or have been cohabiting with someone who now lives in Sweden.

Cohabiting partners means two persons who are not married but live together and have a “marriage-like” relationship with each other. It is not enough for you to have been living together when visiting as tourists, for example.

If you are married or a registered partner, your close relative should register your marriage or partnership with the Swedish Tax Agency.


http://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Private-individuals/Moving-to-someone-in-Sweden/Spouse-registered-partner-or-cohabiting-partner.html (http://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Private-individuals/Moving-to-someone-in-Sweden/Spouse-registered-partner-or-cohabiting-partner.html)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 02, 2020, 09:05:21 AM
Sky News reporter in New York saying that the predicted job losses in the USA because of lockdowns will be 12-15 %,which is akin to the great depression.

Not good.

I am not sure of the data used by the reporter.  Maybe he meant the "Great Recession," not Depression. Consider these facts about the Great Depression. 

Great Depression started in 1929
Peak rate of U.S. unemployment reached 24.9% in 1933.
Unemployment remained above 14% from 1931 to 1940, with WWII significantly lowering it. 
 
Great Recession started in 2008-2009
Peak rate of unemployment reached 10% in October 2009

Both the Great Depression and the Great Recession had their roots in the failure of the financial system.   Such is not the case today.  The US entered the pandemic with a robust economy and healthy financial system. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 02, 2020, 09:05:29 AM
That is the worst part, I am home alone, she is home alone - her daughter is isolated in the Uni in St Pete and her mom living with a close friend and her family in a small village in Ukraine.

So we both just sit here in videochat 10-15 hours a day talking and watching each other work/cook/doing choirs or just watching movies together.. :D

Her business is closed for now so she does her part time work with the bank she works for, but that is things she only do by remote and can do from anywhere in the world..
so it kinda sucks...  :rolleyes:

Hey, think back to Soviet era cold war times.  Western people were always trying to help smuggle Eastern folks out from behind the Iron Curtain, as well as Eastern folks trying the same on their own.

Surely you can figure out a way to get your gal into your home.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 02, 2020, 09:09:02 AM
Both the Great Depression and the Great Recession had their roots in the failure of the financial system.   Such is not the case today. 

Obviously no guarantee, but let's hope it stays that way.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 02, 2020, 09:27:04 AM
As I asked before . . . let's keep this thread for postings related to the actual title.

Statistics and arguments should go here:

2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24136.msg526303#msg526303

Moderators . . . can you move both threads into same forum, as someone asked above, so that both have equal access?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 02, 2020, 09:39:07 AM
Gator,

          What was the unemployment rate in the USA before the lockdowns ?

Is it possible the reporter added that rate to the predicted 12 to 15% additional job losses to arrive at his great depression analogy ?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 02, 2020, 09:41:34 AM
Gosh, I posted an arithmetical error ..  'Mea culpa' .... why do 'you lot' misspell everything ? 'math'  (?) AND  use the incorrect term for arithmetic?

Well I'd explain it to you but, I don't have the inclination nor the crayons to where you could understand it
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 02, 2020, 10:03:21 AM
As I asked before . . . let's keep this thread for postings related to the actual title....

One of the little things that I was doing, or did, before that I'm thankful for now was: In every golf bags I have, I hang one of those small hand sanitizing plastic dispenser that you find in those $1 bins at Target, CVS, etc...

There are elements in golf courses involving picking up and cleaning your golf balls, then washing and cleaning it. Even with the assistance services of caddies, the golf balls are never really 'clean'.

Every hole, I would instead dispense the sanitizer to clean both the ball, then my hands before teeing or putting out. Every round would almost always result in exhausting that small dispenser. So a month before the madness kicked in, I had just bought a jug of sanitizer and those carry pocket packages of hand wipes at Target. A habit that proved worthy so far.

...
http://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Private-individuals/Moving-to-someone-in-Sweden/Spouse-registered-partner-or-cohabiting-partner.html (http://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Private-individuals/Moving-to-someone-in-Sweden/Spouse-registered-partner-or-cohabiting-partner.html)

That's awesome! I like the example the site gave about Sara and Felipe...The system cuts through the bureaucracy and made it simple for you folks.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 02, 2020, 10:11:23 AM
Trench,

           I don't see the point in you having a go at BC because of some altruism on his part.

I know you're not wealthy, and neither am I,but surely one of the benefits of being comparatively well-off compared to other people around you is being able to help them out financially in times of genuine need ?

BC should be applauded and not sniped at.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 02, 2020, 10:12:35 AM
Gator,

          What was the unemployment rate in the USA before the lockdowns ?

Is it possible the reporter added that rate to the predicted 12 to 15% additional job losses to arrive at his great depression analogy ?

Before the pandemic, US unemployment was at historic lows, approaching 3%.  Some contend this is the lowest possible rate because to reduce it further requires employing the "unemployable."   

This morning the US Labor Department reported a record 6.65 million Americans filed first-time jobless claims in its weekly report.  That was for last week.  It is worse than that today.  There are questions about the state unemployment offices having the capacity to process all claims. 

Another way to compare:  In just two weeks  10 million workers have sought unemployment benefits.  This exceeds the nearly 9 million who lost jobs from 2008 to 2010 amid the Great Recession.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 02, 2020, 10:14:57 AM
Billy,

all along you have been right about one thing:  As long as someone has an active case the virus can't be eradicated.  The other Bill is also correct, that with stringent measures we can get ahead of this bug in an effective way.  In theory, a virus can be eradicated, but yes it is a lot of work.


Let's say we do what Bill Gates recommend or even better yet, do what China did with a nationwide draconian style lockdown. Where would America be in a few months from now? Let's see where China says they're at after their lockdown. Also factor in they lie about their current situation

China allows 134 international flights into their nation per week for their own citizens to come back home. Tourism and the airline industry is hurting. Domestic flights and public transportation are probably hurting too.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-logs-fewer-coronavirus-infections-but-tightens-some-curbs-on-movement/ar-BB123Zwo?ocid=spartanntp

China continues to lock down some areas showing signs of a second outbreak.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/county-in-china-locks-down-amid-concerns-of-potential-second-coronavirus-wave/ar-BB122InD?ocid=spartanntp

Driving around yesterday, I'm seeing lots of people shopping for food, driving around, and walking around. I seen homeless people all over the place. One was stealing donations piled up at the thrift store since it was closed. The more I seen, the more I understood it's hard to get 100% participation from everybody and even if it were possible in the USA we'd eventually get an infected person entering from the outside. So if we shut down the nation for 10 weeks like Bill Gates recommends, it could be 2 months before we have major outbreaks again because the virus may not go away in the Summer. It only took less than two months from America's first reported case to having tens of millions of people told to stay home.

I am not sure of the data used by the reporter.  Maybe he meant the "Great Recession," not Depression. Consider these facts about the Great Depression. 

Great Depression started in 1929
Peak rate of U.S. unemployment reached 24.9% in 1933.
Unemployment remained above 14% from 1931 to 1940, with WWII significantly lowering it. 
 
Great Recession started in 2008-2009
Peak rate of unemployment reached 10% in October 2009

Both the Great Depression and the Great Recession had their roots in the failure of the financial system.   Such is not the case today.  The US entered the pandemic with a robust economy and healthy financial system. 

I've seen some experts say this could be worse than the Great Depression. Spanish Flu kept people indoors but WWI helped keep people working and most economies in fairly good shape. With tensions building, people out of work, and neighbors becoming weak, some nations may eventually see war as the answer in building a better economy.

Train engineer tried to ram his train into the hospital ship docked in California. He missed by two and a half football field lengths. He's a bad driver and will probably get fired after he's release from jail. When God passed out brains, he missed the boat.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/engineer-arrested-for-derailing-train-near-usns-mercy-claimed-ship-part-of-government-takeover/ar-BB122Sbm

Yesterday America had over a 1000 deaths, a daily death toll more than double that of two of America's most deadly illnesses – lung cancer and the flu.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/more-than-1000-in-us-die-in-a-single-day-from-coronavirus-doubling-the-worst-daily-death-toll-of-the-flu/ar-BB122UBy?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 02, 2020, 01:04:38 PM
Actually, the English spoke what is v.similar to Welsh before successive invaders .. you might actually have learnt something today !

Yes but most of today's 'Welsh' people are actually English who came across the border in the 1800's & early 1900's when coal mining went big. In some collery towns & villages around 99 percent of the population were English having migrated across. This pattern is repeated throughout South & some of mid & north Wales, ie most of it. Only north west Wales contains what might be said to be a large proportion of original Welsh ancestry, probably. The rest just have what we have come to recognise as the Welsh accent and many of them learn Welsh even though many don't really have any traditional Welsh ancestry.

Enough tutoring of you for today then ;)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 02, 2020, 01:07:34 PM
Due to lack of business and work, our company had to shut down and furlough everyone. 

If this happened a month ago I would be with T. 

I am exploring ways to get to Ukraine.  I saw Turkish Airlines have scheduled flights starting April 17.  I will book one and hope it doesn't get cancelled.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 02, 2020, 01:13:29 PM
Due to lack of business and work, our company had to shut down and furlough everyone. 

If this happened a month ago I would be with T. 

I am exploring ways to get to Ukraine.  I saw Turkish Airlines have scheduled flights starting April 17.  I will book one and hope it doesn't get cancelled.

Sorry to hear this, Steve.

If you do get the flight, IF, maybe best get tested first somehow?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 02, 2020, 01:19:29 PM
Trench thinks his building 'Trench Terrace' in a Welsh valley will qualify him to live in Ukraine and wave £ notes...

The way things are going over there I would be like a God to many of them :D

http://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/ukraine-digest-april-1-ukraine-confirms-more-infected-with-covid-19.html

So 60 percent of Ukrainians already taking a hit due to it all. That's a lot, pretty much two thirds of the country already. Many that went to Poland, etc working illegally on the tourist vise free ticket for better money will now be back in Ukraine jobless with little hope of getting any work. Similarly their lockdown will kick many more out of jobs in restaurants etc and make many businesses go bust.

The lack of western men coming is likely to have an impact too.

Ukraine is getting some loans in but I doubt it will stop the economy collapsing out there again. Ukraine was showing a little more prosperity these past couple of years I felt. Unfortunately for them it looks like they will be going back to being dirt poor again.

I'm guessing the Kherson girl I was with might have to resort to selling on all those nice dresses I bought her as the retail job she was in wasn't in one of the essential sectors.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 02, 2020, 01:26:43 PM
If this happened a month ago I would be with T. 

I am exploring ways to get to Ukraine.  I saw Turkish Airlines have scheduled flights starting April 17.  I will book one and hope it doesn't get cancelled.

Unfortunately I would be surprised if that happens Steve. Things are only going to get worse in Ukraine. All those workers returning from Poland will likely have it as they were all penned in like sheep at the border. In general now that cases have kicked off there it's only likely to get worse. They are probably only 3 weeks behind us (the UK & the US) as we are behind Italy. Even if you got there you might have problems getting back and all sorts of other survival issues and problems.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 02, 2020, 01:29:08 PM

I am exploring ways to get to Ukraine.  I saw Turkish Airlines have scheduled flights starting April 17.  I will book one and hope it doesn't get cancelled.

I certainly wouldn't be going to Ukraine.

They are going to get hit harder than Italy and Spain . . . and will be less able to cope than either of those two countries.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 02, 2020, 01:37:35 PM
Wife's parents live on a few acres just outside a small town west of Kyiv.

They have extensive garden, fruit trees, rabbits, chickens, etc.
They need nothing from stores.

Wife pleads with them every day to go no where and let no one into house.

Social security type money is hand delivered every month.
She told them to have person put that cash money on porch and not even open door.
Later to clean and put into one of the animal buildings.

Father's younger sister runs an animal supply, food and pharmacy in town, and goes every day and interacts with dozens.

Wife tells parents to not let that sister come anywhere near their house.  She lives a couple of blocks away.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 02, 2020, 02:05:09 PM
Sorry to hear this, Steve.

If you do get the flight, IF, maybe best get tested first somehow?


That seems just as hard to do as getting a flight to Ukraine.  Two weeks ago I was sick with a sore throat and runny nose.  I didn't have a fever nor shortness of breath.  The symptoms started 5 days after returning from Frankfurt.  I tried twice to get tested and was denied. 

I will try again.  Maybe get my doctor to approve it somehow.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 02, 2020, 02:42:26 PM
I'm surprised Steve. I was under the impression if you had the symptoms classified in the guideline that you qualified to get tested.

I hope you get tested and make your trip. Good luck, man! Sorry about the job.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 02, 2020, 02:55:30 PM
Thanks GQ.  Things at work were slowing down before the crisis - we lost a large engineering project at the beginning of the year. 

I still have full benefits, and I have enough resources to last quite a while.  If it happened sooner, I would have stayed with T and not returned to the US.  Oh well.


I just checked flights.  Two days ago I saw a TA flight from April 17 onwards.  Now it's gone.  The earliest flights start May 1.

There are a few crazy routes available from April 20, like an SAS flight that's 60 hours and connects in Copenhagen and Oslo, with overnight layovers in both cities.  Another was a 30 hour flight on Delta on April 24, connecting via Dallas and Amsterdam.

I will book the Turkish Airlines flight on May 1.   It's the only reasonable flight available for now.  Hopefully it won't get cancelled.

 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on April 02, 2020, 03:01:02 PM
Due to lack of business and work, our company had to shut down and furlough everyone. 

If this happened a month ago I would be with T. 

I am exploring ways to get to Ukraine.  I saw Turkish Airlines have scheduled flights starting April 17.  I will book one and hope it doesn't get cancelled.

I wouldn't do that if I were you. If you buy flight and can't arrive in Ukraine, no free changes in dates.
Ukraine is in nationwide quarantine till April 24. There is talk of extending quarantine till May 15. Ukraine is expecting COVID-19 to peak april15-April 25
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 02, 2020, 04:02:46 PM
Thanks GQ.  Things at work were slowing down before the crisis - we lost a large engineering project at the beginning of the year. 

I still have full benefits, and I have enough resources to last quite a while.  If it happened sooner, I would have stayed with T and not returned to the US.  Oh well.

Yeah...I'm starting to actually wonder if being in construction is a blessing for us since we haven't really missed a beat regarding work load. Then Monday came and found out someone tested positive at the Sofi Stadium project and had to convene with our crew to check all bases to make sure all is well on our end.

Is it really 'beneficial' for us to be 'out' there right now?

Quote
I just checked flights.  Two days ago I saw a TA flight from April 17 onwards.  Now it's gone.  The earliest flights start May 1.

There are a few crazy routes available from April 20, like an SAS flight that's 60 hours and connects in Copenhagen and Oslo, with overnight layovers in both cities.  Another was a 30 hour flight on Delta on April 24, connecting via Dallas and Amsterdam.

I will book the Turkish Airlines flight on May 1.   It's the only reasonable flight available for now.  Hopefully it won't get cancelled.

I've read a lot of your posts and you impressed me as someone with a good head on your shoulders. I know your decision process is properly wired. You know best. Just make sure you recognized your decision regarding your current situation is balanced and well deliberated. Tough situation to be in, for sure.

Whatever decision you follow, make hay and wish you the best!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 02, 2020, 04:41:44 PM
I certainly wouldn't be going to Ukraine.

They are going to get hit harder than Italy and Spain . . . and will be less able to cope than either of those two countries.

I agree, it may not be a pretty sight when sh*t hits the fan there. All they've really got so far is that they are trailing behind us by a few weeks currently.

It's gone quiet on the medicine front at the moment and with all these people dieing in the west I guess they are not there yet.

Whether any medicine can come in, in time to help Ukraine I am doubtful. Even if some did come forward there is then the cost of it which Ukraine may struggle with.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 02, 2020, 04:51:45 PM
Father's younger sister runs an animal supply, food and pharmacy in town, and goes every day and interacts with dozens.

Wife tells parents to not let that sister come anywhere near their house.  She lives a couple of blocks away.

Indeed, I have thought for a while now that those doing front line jobs in Pharmacies and Supermarkets are taking huge risks. You think of the number of people they deal with each day, even with some effort to social distancing which varies it's got to still be very risky. Certainly not a risk I would be willing to take, it's too great a risk, I would rather be unemployed than do those jobs at this moment in time. Only Doctors & Nurses likely take more risk and other staff that work in hospitals.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 02, 2020, 06:17:42 PM
I've got to say I think our real problem here in the UK could come at the end of this all. With the state stumping up 80 percent of income for the self employed and 80 percent of salaries for employees in companies to stop them being laid off not to mention all the lockdown economic damage I reckon there will be a big hit on the general population in any future budget to pay for it all.

At the moment the Chancellor is seen as a generous guy but next year he is going to have to find the money to pay for all the spend out now. Who exactly he is going to hit to do this is where the concern should be. I would be concerned that he would hit one group harder than others and that would likely be a big issue.

Meanwhile, I don't see much let up from the money lenders. Most seem to be going with the, 'you can have a repayment holiday but standard rate of interest still accumulates on your account' lol, typical money lenders still want their pound of flesh. Landlords are told they can't get rent out of their tenants if they say they can't/won't pay. Supermarkets and their suppliers have kept their prices low and as far as I know most Key Workers aren't demanding 'danger pay', but money lenders still want to charge. Fortunately as I found out tonight I am a Key Worker :D and still currently bringing the money in I can avoid such Interest charges at present at least. Still always some one who won't play ball.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 02, 2020, 07:05:48 PM
goats on the attack!!!
killer kazul!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 02, 2020, 07:09:28 PM

Washington State Governor just spoke and he's extending his Stay at Home order to May 4. He also said there is a chance he may have to extend that.

There's talk about the government will soon recommend Americans to wear masks while going out. First they need to secure enough for the medical professionals.

FEMA is looking to secure 100,000 body bags. One bag had Krimster's name on it. He needs to get back to his compound and surround himself with women instead of going out and buying non essential items such as guns.

http://news.yahoo.com/fema-seeks-100-000-body-144932418.html?.tsrc=bell-brknews
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 02, 2020, 08:26:23 PM
Soon recommend? They already are. They’re convinced folks in asymptomatic state can actually spread the disease hence donning ‘facial covering when out in the public, emphasizing to avoid using face mask as they are slated for health personnel. It is undeniably the biggest risk of spreading the virus are people out there who doesn’t know they are carrying the disease.

LOL, they should start with 3M. The idiots would rather sell and ship those N95s to foreign governments than to Americans.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 02, 2020, 08:40:37 PM
LOL, they should start with 3M. The idiots would rather sell and ship those N95s to foreign governments than to Americans.


I heard Trump answering a reporters question today about American companies shipping supplies to Italy and a few other countries and Trump was okay with that because they already placed orders awhile back. Of course with enacting the Defense act Trump could cancel those orders but our allies would be hating America.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 02, 2020, 10:30:24 PM
Let's say we do what Bill Gates recommend or even better yet, do what China did with a nationwide draconian style lockdown. Where would America be in a few months from now? Let's see where China says they're at after their lockdown. Also factor in they lie about their current situation

China allows 134 international flights into their nation per week for their own citizens to come back home. Tourism and the airline industry is hurting. Domestic flights and public transportation are probably hurting too.

Billy,

No matter how the situation is or is not in China.  The ONLY effective way we have to deal with this virus is a long period of isolation. Until the magic bullet is found that fact will not change. Here we're entering our second month of isolation, a true lockdown and not dilly-dallying around lockdown and it is working. Two out of three of the most densely populated areas did not follow with massive infections as in Lombardia with only 10 % of the cases as up north.  Despite the current mid-month ending of the lockdown, it will almost certainly be extended again.  Reinfections in HK and China is being watched closely and the exit strategy being planned with widespread testing not only for the virus but those with antibodies as well that can go back to work in relative safety.  This will take time.  Life will not go back to 'normal' for some time to come. Travel will still remain very restricted as well as border crossings. Masks and gloves and other lighter distancing measures such as one in, one out at stores are here to stay for the rest of the year to prevent flare up's and new waves of infection.  So much progress has been made that .gov is going to do whatever it takes to not drop the ball and have a do-over.

Where would Italy be if it had acted just one week earlier with a national lockdown?  About half the deaths and infections we have now.

As for the subject of this thread, all I can suggest is to prepare for the long haul in your homes to prevent the new enemy called fear, desperation and chaos from entering the front door.  Get to know your neighbours, ask how they are doing and start helping each other out if needed.  Find a family project to keep boredom and lethargy from eating you up. Establish a new family routine in your home and stick to it so everyone feels involved and productive. Most importantly have a family meeting and let them know that isolation is going to be a bit tough emotionally, that family flare-ups will happen, that such is normal and expected under the circumstances and that you'll have to work together to get over the little humps and bumps in the road together.



 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 02, 2020, 11:21:22 PM
Oh dear,

Trench revisionist history, strikes again

Yes but most of today's 'Welsh' people are actually English who came across the border in the 1800's & early 1900's when coal mining went big.


This has b'all to do with the virus ...  Suggest you add Anthropology to your list of 'must do better'
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 02, 2020, 11:43:31 PM
Oh dear,

Trench revisionist history, strikes again

This has b'all to do with the virus ...  Suggest you add Anthropology to your list of 'must do better'

Only because you can't stand being wrong, lol.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Nightwish on April 03, 2020, 03:26:16 AM
Due to lack of business and work, our company had to shut down and furlough everyone. 

If this happened a month ago I would be with T. 

I am exploring ways to get to Ukraine.  I saw Turkish Airlines have scheduled flights starting April 17.  I will book one and hope it doesn't get cancelled.

Ukraine is closed to foreigners until April 24. And no regular flights in are allowed.  (and from how things are going, that will be extended)

Now you have a spouse there so you qualify to get the exception, have you talked to the embassy about it?
If you manage to find a flight and just show up in the airport, you wont be allowed to enter.
But I doubt Turkish will fly in there on the 17th with the restrictions in place....

edit. I saw now the May 1, but I really don't think the country will be open by then. Unofficials say they could be closed down to end of June.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 03, 2020, 03:48:09 AM
Steve,

It sucks how this all evolved and how partners are separated by oceans

ALL I can offer in a 'positive'.. even if you had been dating someone in the next street ... in most nations you'd be 'forbidden' from approaching closer than 2m and still having to rely on video chat ((


Can you imagine, there are folks out there in internet land who'd say you, nightwish , I ( and others ) were 'fools' not to ensure our loved ones are with us ...?




 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on April 03, 2020, 04:01:54 AM
http://banned.video/watch?id=5e8594c54392020055e38fac (http://banned.video/watch?id=5e8594c54392020055e38fac)


Boe, I think you have an open mind. Please watch it.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 03, 2020, 06:14:48 AM
I heard Trump answering a reporters question today about American companies shipping supplies to Italy and a few other countries and Trump was okay with that because they already placed orders awhile back. Of course with enacting the Defense act Trump could cancel those orders but our allies would be hating America.

Allies?!? 😂  they were out there offering cash at higher prices to get it. Akin to grabbing your life support to keep themselves from drowning.

Anyway, at the beginning of this thread, I recall you were being mocked for suggesting wearing a face mask. Now that it’s apparent it’s use is advisable - cricket time.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 03, 2020, 06:34:27 AM
Allies?!? 😂  they were out there offering cash at higher prices to get it. Akin to grabbing your life support to keep themselves from drowning.

Anyway, at the beginning of this thread, I recall you were being mocked for suggesting wearing a face mask. Now that it’s apparent it’s use is advisable - cricket time.

I also suggested wearing a mask is pretty pointless - if you're a member of the public, shopping ...

Surgical masks ..within 6 mins are useless ..if your authorities tell you that you've got to wear one, you've not got much choice .. but it's DUMB

OK, got a filter mask .. 'Great' ..you can succumb to asphyxiation.. :wallbash:
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Nightwish on April 03, 2020, 06:52:44 AM
I also suggested wearing a mask is pretty pointless - if you're a member of the public, shopping ...

Surgical masks ..within 6 mins are useless ..if your authorities tell you that you've got to wear one, you've not got much choice .. but it's DUMB

OK, got a filter mask .. 'Great' ..you can succumb to asphyxiation.. :wallbash:

The mask is not to protect you from being infected it's to protect others, same way as primarily Asian people have been using them for decades.

Mask on - you limit the amount of virus being transmitted from you in case you have the virus
Mask off - You are a egoistic f*ckhead

so take your 6 minutes and shove them where the sun don't shine - you are the dumb one that can't digest facts
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 03, 2020, 07:14:18 AM
I've been reading some accounting of people that have had the virus and are not old, like 40-50 year olds.  It has sounded horrid, and many have wound up in the hospital and seemingly near death, if not for the hospital stay.  It is concerning because as an individual you don't really know if that will be you or 'somebody else'. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 03, 2020, 07:18:50 AM
The mask is not to protect you from being infected it's to protect others, same way as primarily Asian people have been using them for decades.

Mask on - you limit the amount of virus being transmitted from you in case you have the virus
Mask off - You are a egoistic f*ckhead

so take your 6 minutes and shove them where the sun don't shine - you are the dumb one that can't digest facts

Sighs

IF you wear a mask ( surgical)  it is useless within six mins as your breath makes it damp and they simply DO NOT stop the aerosol transmission / reception of droplets as they are not 'sealed'  ... so unless you are ordered to wear one, it is not a question of 'ego' ..rather daftness


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 03, 2020, 07:27:04 AM
Anyway, at the beginning of this thread, I recall you were being mocked for suggesting wearing a face mask. Now that it’s apparent it’s use is advisable - cricket
time.

Yes that did happen because people believed what the government and experts told them. They didn't realize they were told certain things so the general public wouldn't hoard the masks.

The mask is not to protect you from being infected it's to protect others,

Mask on - you limit the amount of virus being transmitted from you in case you have the virus


That is what the government and experts is telling us now but it will change. Taiwan and South Korea had success keeping the number of infected low because everybody wears masks. It not only helps keep people from spreading it, it helps people from getting the virus. That's why healthy hospital workers wear them.

Problem is it's uncomfortable. People will then make mistakes and adjust their mask often and they touch their face with their hands which may have the virus on them. Also the mask may have the virus on it and if touched by the hands, the virus will jump to the hands and then onto doorknobs everybody else will touch.

IF you wear a mask ( surgical)  it is useless within six mins as your breath makes it damp and they simply DO NOT stop the aerosol transmission / reception of droplets as they are not 'sealed'  ... so unless you are ordered to wear one, it is not a question of 'ego' ..rather daftness


It's not useless. Some protection is always better than no protection. I still haven't wore a mask since this crisis started but my wife wears a 3M N95 mask when she goes shopping.

I've been reading some accounting of people that have had the virus and are not old, like 40-50 year olds.  It has sounded horrid, and many have wound up in the hospital and seemingly near death, if not for the hospital stay.  It is concerning because as an individual you don't really know if that will be you or 'somebody else'. 


Eventually this virus may make enough rounds to where everybody in the world gets it. Can't count on a vaccine to be developed so it's important for governments to limit the spread over time so hospitals aren't overloaded. Overloaded hospitals have higher rates of death because they won't have ventilators for everybody.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 03, 2020, 07:34:54 AM


It's not useless. Some protection is always better than no protection. I still haven't wore a mask since this crisis started but my wife wears a 3M N95 mask when she goes shopping.



THAT is a filter mask - properly sealed .. it'll just suffocate her after 30 mins

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 03, 2020, 07:53:43 AM
The mask is not to protect you from being infected it's to protect others, same way as primarily Asian people have been using them for decades.

Mask on - you limit the amount of virus being transmitted from you in case you have the virus
Mask off - You are a egoistic f*ckhead


so take your 6 minutes and shove them where the sun don't shine - you are the dumb one that can't digest facts

Exactly right! Not only that, having one on is also a good reminder to refrain from 'touching your face with your hands, especially in the nose and mouth regions.

Anyway, I'm not sure what type of face mask the 'other' guy bought if it chokes him to death after 30 minutes. Maybe he can try it on for, say, 40 minutes?

Anyway, according to the board 'expert', it's rather counter productive for doctors and nurses on the frontline to choke to death after 30 minutes wearing N95, or surgical mask being useless after 6 min. - but there they are - wearing one every time you see them on the news and TV. OY! Those damned idiots, eh?

For everyone else...they are now getting vital information that part of the spreading of the virus are from people who have the disease but are asymptomatic and they're out there in the public. To MINIMIZE the transmission of the virus, they are advising to wear some facial covering (they don't right out say 'face mask' as they are concerned about depleting supplies that are much needed by the care takers on the frontline), in the event that it is 'YOU', as an additional measure of flattening the curve.

I've said at the beginning of this thread when BillyB is getting mocked, if you feel safer doing something for yourself and your family - don't let idiots in the internet stop you from exercising what you deem right for you. Especially from one well known to be wrong in everything.

This is a PUBLIC SERVICE. I sure hope this post doesn't GET DELETED again.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 03, 2020, 08:00:56 AM
THAT is a filter mask - properly sealed .. it'll just suffocate her after 30 mins

You were wrong about masks before after personally getting educated by your medical expert friends. Do you want to be wrong some more?

Even a mask that's not properly sealed is still better than no mask. Protecting against 100% of the viruses is near impossible but if a person can limit the amount of viruses they intake, they may not get infected. I've worked in extremely dusty conditions and in garages painting equipment with automobile paint and wore masks that eventually start to clog and get wet over time but it still protected to some degree.

From the article in the link below.

In February, scientists in Wuhan, China—where the coronavirus outbreak originated—sampled the air in various public areas, and showed that the virus was either undetectable or found in extremely low concentrations. The only exceptions were two crowded sites, one in front of a department store and another next to a hospital. Even then, each cubic meter of air contained fewer than a dozen virus particles. (No one knows the infectious dose of SARS-CoV-2—that is, the number of particles needed to start an infection—but for the original SARS virus of 2003, one study estimated somewhere between 43 and 280.)

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/coronavirus-pandemic-airborne-go-outside-masks/609235/

Next time you go in for open heart surgery that lasts for hours, tell your doctors they don't need a mask since they won't work after some minutes.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 03, 2020, 08:05:23 AM
Exactly right! Not only that, having one on is also a good reminder to refrain from 'touching your face with your hands, especially in the nose and mouth regions.

Anyway, I'm not sure what type of face mask the 'other' guy bought if it chokes him to death after 30 minutes. Maybe he can try it on for, say, 40 minutes?

Anyway, according to the board 'expert', it's rather counter productive for doctors and nurses on the frontline to choke to death after 30 minutes wearing N95, or surgical mask being useless after 6 min. - but there they are - wearing one every time you see them on the news and TV. OY! Those damned idiots, eh?

For everyone else...they are now getting vital information that part of the spreading of the virus are from people who have the disease but are asymptomatic and they're out there in the public. To MINIMIZE the transmission of the virus, they are advising to wear some facial covering (they don't right out say 'face mask' as they are concerned about depleting supplies that are much needed by the care takers on the frontline), in the event that it is 'YOU', as an additional measure of flattening the curve.

I've said at the beginning of this thread when BillyB is getting mocked, if you feel safer doing something for yourself and your family - don't let idiots in the internet stop you from exercising what you deem right for you. Especially from one well known to be wrong in everything.

This is a PUBLIC SERVICE. I sure hope this post doesn't GET DELETED again.

Billyb should probably go check on his wife. If she didn't carry a plethora of extra masks surely she's dead by now according to the resident expert? I don't know of many women that can finish shopping in 30 minutes or less
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 03, 2020, 08:13:02 AM
Where would Italy be if it had acted just one week earlier with a national lockdown?  About half the deaths and infections we have now.


China deserves the lions share of the blame but some experts and politicians in Italy deserve blame too. Watching China in January, factor in they do a bit of lying, and strange pneumonia cases started showing up in hospitals in early February, your health experts should've predicted when things would explode exponentially and your politicians should've acted earlier based off their recommendations. While Italy can claim they didn't know what was going happen because of China's deception, what was the rest of Europe's excuse? Spain is going to pass Italy and they have a smaller population. Other European nations are catching up and they have no excuse after watching Italy from the beginning. In the link below, cases and deaths per million are important columns and a refection each nation's actions. Many nations lie so we won't ever get the full truth on how bad this virus is.

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 03, 2020, 08:15:45 AM
You were wrong about masks before after personally getting educated by your medical expert friends. Do you want to be wrong some more?

I have yet to be proven 'wrong' and the physician that educates me hasn't changed his stance !


Next time you go in for open heart surgery that lasts for hours, tell your doctors they don't need a mask since they won't work after some minutes.

They don't stop virus transmission... BOY is the thick strong in you, today
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 03, 2020, 08:25:21 AM
China deserves the lions share of the blame but some experts and politicians in Italy deserve blame too. Watching China in January, factor in they do a bit of lying, and strange pneumonia cases started showing up in hospitals in early February, your health experts should've predicted when things would explode exponentially and your politicians should've acted earlier based off their recommendations. While Italy can claim they didn't know what was going happen because of China's deception, what was the rest of Europe's excuse? Spain is going to pass Italy and they have a smaller population. Other European nations are catching up and they have no excuse after watching Italy from the beginning. In the link below, cases and deaths per million are important columns and a refection each nation's actions. Many nations lie so we won't ever get the full truth on how bad this virus is.

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

This was the article (http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3076334/coronavirus-strange-pneumonia-seen-lombardy-november-leading) I mentioned to you about those cases of 'strange and severe' pneumonia cases breaking out back in November in Italy.

I can't lay any 'blame' on Italy in hindsight. This is a novel virus. They simply didn't know.

Italy wanted to tighten their relationship with Beijing due to economic reasons. Many of Italy's fashion well known industries are now owned by Chinese companies. Despite some concerns within Italy's politicians at the forefront of their epidemic, they still decided to host Chinese dignitaries into a special concert for their honor.

But many of our cases are brought back by vacationing Americans from Italy. None of them were warned by the Italian authorities despite multiple findings were beginning to surface.

That's some pretty grave implications. You had mentioned on another thread about exhuming some of those victims to find out if in fact the deaths back in November were via COVID-19. Well, the chances of that happening, if true, and put Italy in that light - would simply be globally damning much in the way China is currently being looked at today. So, it ain't happening.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 03, 2020, 08:48:41 AM
This was the article (http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3076334/coronavirus-strange-pneumonia-seen-lombardy-november-leading) I mentioned to you about those cases of 'strange and severe' pneumonia cases breaking out back in November in Italy.


That was something different in November. With zero action taken, Italy would've exploded in January if it was the coronavirus. It takes approximately two months from the time the virus shows up in a country to the point lockdowns need to happen.

I can't lay any 'blame' on Italy in hindsight. This is a novel virus. They simply didn't know.


Italy knew enough in January to prepare for the correct course of action. China finally confirmed human-to-human transmission on Jan. 20. Trump banned foreign nationals that been in China while Italy banned flights from China January 31. Although similar restrictions, there's a big difference with Trump making the better move. Italy and America knew back in January to take action based on a few dozen cases in their countries. Deaths are going to happen but the proper action and how fast they should act is supposed to be figured out by the experts to prevent exponential growth and deaths.

The first round is a learning experience on what to do, when to do it and what not to do. We will learn even more after the next few outbreaks. Hopefully it's a seasonal thing instead of every two months. Our economies can't handle these virus outbreaks multiple times each year. I'm not sure economic growth is possible with just one outbreak a year.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 03, 2020, 08:57:08 AM
OMG.. :wallbash:




Italy wanted to tighten their relationship with Beijing due to economic reasons. Many of Italy's fashion well known industries are now owned by Chinese companies. Despite some concerns within Italy's politicians at the forefront of their epidemic, they still decided to host Chinese dignitaries into a special concert for their honor.


Once AGAIN , Italy was the first EU nation to bans flight from China ... hardly the action of a state acting in the way GQB 'suggests' ...

But many of our cases are brought back by vacationing Americans from Italy. None of them were warned by the Italian authorities despite multiple findings were beginning to surface.

Given 'we' did know about the virus in January and USA tourists and biz men still went and returned, ( even when Italy was  becoming a 'hot spot' ) this is another piece of nonsense .


You'd be better off blaming your 'leader' as he told you it was 'all under control' ...






Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 03, 2020, 09:32:51 AM
The method for informing US travellers of problems in other countries is the State Dept Travel Advisories.  The list is below and you can see when advisories for each country were listed.

 http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories.html/

IIRC those studying differences in the genetic sequence were able to identify that of the three first cases in the US two were from China and one from Europe, quite possibly Italy.

In any case, most if not all EU countries have started levelling off due to identification, isolation and controls.  The $64,000 question is if the US will also level off, and when.  See the graph attached.

---------------------

To add a little to the original topic, if you wear gloves, suggest using cotton inserts if you can get them.  Nothing worse than sweaty hands in gloves to pass bugs into the body.  The other day was wearing a mask and gloves, went to the ATM machine.  Gloves did not work with the touchscreen.. ugh what now? yes, gloves off.. oops have my pin stored on my phone.. damn won't open for me... aha... the mask doesn't allow facial recognition to work...  Also, throw away the gloves when you get home, don't put them in your pocket for next time.  If you have the heavy-duty type wash along with the inserts in hot soapy water and let sit for a bit.  Carry one of those pens with rubber tips for touchscreens and phones when you go out and wipe down your phone before you get home.


[edit]  Note UK on the graph whos leadership also delayed measures

 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 03, 2020, 09:43:09 AM
The first round is a learning experience on what to do, when to do it and what not to do. We will learn even more after the next few outbreaks. Hopefully it's a seasonal thing instead of every two months. Our economies can't handle these virus outbreaks multiple times each year. I'm not sure economic growth is possible with just one outbreak a year.

The US watched the first two rounds from outside the ring.  Why are we TODAY still not fully on board with the program?

Because we were complacent, gambled and lost.  Our leaders said all was in control and it would go away, we insisted on making our own tests which delayed testing for 6 weeks, we did not learn from the mistakes of other countries and a whole range of items to 'learn from'. 

Bottom line, we did not own it... and now the virus now owns us.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 03, 2020, 09:44:21 AM
OMG.. :wallbash:

Once AGAIN , Italy was the first EU nation to bans flight from China ... hardly the action of a state acting in the way GQB 'suggests' ...

Given 'we' did know about the virus in January and USA tourists and biz men still went and returned, ( even when Italy was  becoming a 'hot spot' ) this is another piece of nonsense .

You'd be better off blaming your 'leader' as he told you it was 'all under control' ...

Note the date (+/- two weeks after banning flight from China): Best Friends Forever (http://www.beltandroad.news/2020/02/15/special-concert-hosted-by-italys-president-china-italy-running-culture-tourism-year/)

Just a year prior: A Royal Welcome (http://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/22/world/europe/italy-china-xi-road.html)

Quote
ROME — President Xi Jinping of China arrived on Friday at Rome’s presidential palace with a cavalry escort usually reserved for royals. For a three-day visit, Italy pulled out all the stops for an economic superpower promising billions in investment and trade deals in exchange for officially signing on to China’s vast new Silk Road.

But even as Mr. Xi and his wife were serenaded at a state dinner by Andrea Bocelli, the leaders of France, Germany and the European Union huddled in Brussels hoping to strengthen the Continent’s defenses against what they considered to be China’s economic incursion.

3 days ago:Dark Bright Days Ahead (http://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/dark-shadow-chinese-globalization-falls-over-italy/#slide-1)

Quote
That was not the visual backdrop Italian leaders were seeking less than a year ago when they signed a memorandum of understanding with China, committing Italy to Xi Jinping’s Belt and Road Initiative. Italy also signed nearly 20 related agreements to build new port and road infrastructure, initiate scientific cooperation in space science and satellite technology, boost exports of frozen pork and citrus fruit to China, and tap Chinese investment funds to pay for many of the projects. Despite the wide-ranging commitments agreed to in Rome in March, China apparently did not believe it had any responsibility to tell its new partner that a dangerous virus had been on the loose in Wuhan in December, and that many of the Chinese arriving in Northern Italy during the winter might be carriers. The decimation of Italy’s elderly highlights how China handles partner nations, and it’s a dark future.

capiche?

As for Italian brands being owned and driven by Chinese, there's a slew of articles out there the past 10 years. Chew on 'em, ok? Made in Italy is a dead and dying 'brand'...

http://www.marketingtochina.com/italian-brands-bought-chinese-companies/

http://footwearnews.com/2018/business/mergers-acquisitions/china-investment-acquisition-europe-luxury-fashion-brands-504195/
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 03, 2020, 09:55:05 AM
Italy was the first EU nation to bans flight from China ...


Banning flights was not enough. Banning individuals who were in nations that were hotspots was needed. If I were a Chinese student trying to get to Italy to finish my degree, Chinese businessman looking to make a million dollar sale, or Chinese tourist that invested $15,000 for my family to look at Rome, I would not let a cancelled flight from China to Italy stop me. I would take a flight to another country and then proceed to Italy.

The US watched the first two rounds from outside the ring.  Why are we TODAY still not fully on board with the program?

Because we were complacent, gambled and lost.  Our leaders said all was in control and it would go away, we insisted on making our own tests which delayed testing for 6 weeks, we did not learn from the mistakes of other countries and a whole range of items to 'learn from'. 

Bottom line, we did not own it... and now the virus now owns us.

America is like a lot of countries all rolled into one. Outbreaks will happen in different states at different paces. If Trump was wrong about not locking down the whole nation and shutting down the entire economy at the same time, he can do it next time. I think he did the right thing letting governors decide what's best for their State except it seems NY made some moves too late to stop exponential growth of infections and deaths.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 03, 2020, 10:30:57 AM
Event in our state and in our industry:

CAL-OSHA (California - Occupational Safety and Health Organization), as a response to COVID-19 CDC guidelines, began sending out inspectors to all active construction sites that began this week. They are conducting random job site visits unannounced to check and make sure workers are adhering to the CDC Guidelines.

They will also randomly meet with site supervisions and ask for their respective COVID-19 Company Response Programs in addition to the usual site specific IIPPs, PPEs, etc..

Anything short of compliance will immediately place that company in violation, which could lead to project or contract suspension.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 03, 2020, 10:40:52 AM
After discussing this further with wifey today, we decided to postpone the travel.  The tipping point is the mandatory 14 day observed quarantine - no self isolation or self quarantine. 

Once (and hopefully soon?) restrictions get lifted, I will go there, or perhaps if the US Embassy there is open again she can apply and get a B2 visa to visit here.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 03, 2020, 10:49:43 AM

My MIL reported today from Ukraine. She talked to a medical professional friend in Italy and it is as bad as it's reported there. My MIL, a retired doctor, said Ukraine isn't securing buildings for quarantining people. They don't have many test kits and those that they do have are the unreliable ones from China.

We complain about our governments not being prepared but there are many governments out there that can't afford to be as prepared as we. But it's okay, they can manipulate the numbers as well as China to show they've done a good job protecting the people.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 03, 2020, 10:50:04 AM
GQ,

At first, construction was allowed but afterwards only for necessary work, i.e. hospitals and urgent safety-related repairs.

Suggest keeping your eye out for Covid testing possibilities and jump on the opportunity as soon as available including antibody testing.  You can then sort your teams and jobs accordingly.  With a bit of luck, you'll end up with most having had it and recovered that can be sent anywhere with less risk to themselves and customers.

Any worker that tested positive and afterwards negative and is still in good shape to work is going to be a very valuable asset for some time to come.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 03, 2020, 11:04:08 AM
GQ,

At first, construction was allowed but afterwards only for necessary work, i.e. hospitals and urgent safety-related repairs.

So far here out west, all aspects of construction is still considered 'essential'. I'm on the fence about this as many operations dealing with labor work have them working 'shoulder-to-shoulder'. A definite adjustment. We've sent out memos to our field, discussed this at tailgate meetings, and had our safety team out and about at all our sites constantly.

Quote
Suggest keeping your eye out for Covid testing possibilities and jump on the opportunity as soon as available including antibody testing.  You can then sort your teams and jobs accordingly.  With a bit of luck, you'll end up with most having had it and recovered that can be sent anywhere with less risk to themselves and customers.

I agree. We haven't had an employee that succumb to the disease. At least not that became symptomatic. But you know how that goes these days. It means zilch. I am dreaming of getting everyone tested regardless of condition. I can't believe we can send machines to Mars and communicate back to us, but we can't provide adequate testing kits for everyone during a pandemic.

Quote
Any worker that tested positive and afterwards negative and is still in good shape to work is going to be a very valuable asset for some time to come.

I heard a report that anyone who actually 'recovered' from the diseases are the prime source of antibodies and are being asked to donate blood. One draw can apparently aid in treating 3 patients. I'd do it in a heartbeat...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 03, 2020, 11:13:37 AM
I heard a report that anyone who actually 'recovered' from the diseases are the prime source of antibodies and are being asked to donate blood. One draw can apparently aid in treating 3 patients. I'd do it in a heartbeat...

Ditto here.  Some antibody testing already started here, but then stopped due to lack of testing materials, likely due to the still high demand for normal testing.

Your Mars analogy is spot on. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 03, 2020, 11:20:24 AM
I heard a report that anyone who actually 'recovered' from the diseases are the prime source of antibodies and are being asked to donate blood. One draw can apparently aid in treating 3 patients. I'd do it in a heartbeat...

I'd auction it off to the highest bidder ;D
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 03, 2020, 11:25:11 AM
I'd auction it off to the highest bidder ;D

I was worried these last posts would prompt you to go get infected for the same purpose.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 03, 2020, 11:37:20 AM
It means zilch. I am dreaming of getting everyone tested regardless of condition. I can't believe we can send machines to Mars and communicate back to us, but we can't provide adequate testing kits for everyone during a pandemic.


Testing across the nation is still inadequate, yet especially so in California.   What's the story?

From Politico http://www.politico.com/interactives/2020/coronavirus-testing-by-state-chart-of-new-cases/

___________________________________________________

California:  33,000 tests (increase of 11,741 since last week)

Florida:      77,296 tests (increase 46,345 since last week)


California:  28% of tests reported as positive

Florida:      10% of tests reported as positive



Is Florida  testing too many first responders, healthcare staff, etc.  who do not have symptoms?  Or testing too many people regardless of symptoms who had contact with a new case of COVID-19?

Is California reserving its capacity by focusing tests on symptomatic cases? 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 03, 2020, 11:39:01 AM

Your Mars analogy is spot on.

The Mars mission was not designed, developed and delivered in one month. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 03, 2020, 12:19:03 PM
The Mars mission was not designed, developed and delivered in one month.

This ain't a Mars mission. WHO and German scientists developed a test many weeks before the US was able to begin testing in any great number (lets say more than 2-300 per day.

Earlier saw Dr Brix in an interview stating that she can't get half of the testing data.

From the CDC website today.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 03, 2020, 01:19:04 PM
Testing across the nation is still inadequate, yet especially so in California.   What's the story?

From Politico http://www.politico.com/interactives/2020/coronavirus-testing-by-state-chart-of-new-cases/

Results Pending. We are probably still trying to deplete the 4-day lab result test kits before using those 15-minute model. We are currently right at 92,500 tested.

I've previously commented the seeming lack of urgency and expertise in the way our data collecting agencies are functioning. California has a 'B' rating regarding informing the public during this current crisis.

Quote
California has shown a huge number of pending tests. The state has been inconsistent in its timing of reporting, so we used faster updating sources until 4/1, when we standardized on California's new data dashboards. This led to a drop in cases and deaths, as the state's data lags some other sources. We assume that "tests conducted" = "people tested." Negatives and pending from California state 3/31 update. Hospitalization data from 4/1 Newsom press conference.

Here's a site I prefer that reports on all the states and territories. It's much more 'current' and comprehensive.

http://covidtracking.com/data/

If you'd notice...information for California was last 'updated 4/1'! Even Guam updates their dashboard the same day.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 03, 2020, 01:54:38 PM
I would take a flight to another country and then proceed to Italy.

I seem to remember you getting all bent 'outta shape' when I pointed out 'Trampu' - by not banning UK / IRL - ( only EU )  fights was making the VERY same mistake .......


[Lot's of words] that proved nothing to help his 'case' re 'visits' - NO riposte to Italy being the first EU nation to ban flights from China that TOTALLY busted GQB..

As for Italian brands being owned and driven by Chinese, there's a slew of articles out there the past 10 years. Chew on 'em, ok? Made in Italy is a dead and dying 'brand'...

1/ Ferrari ?
2/ Gucci ?
..etc.

Ah, you mean like 'Miss Sixty' ?  :ROFL:

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 03, 2020, 02:11:03 PM
straw...grasp...

Must be pretty lonely in that basement alone with 'ma...
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 03, 2020, 02:20:58 PM
I seem to remember you getting all bent 'outta shape' when I pointed out 'Trampu' - by not banning UK / IRL - ( only EU )  fights was making the VERY same mistake .......


I said Homeland security would make sure that Trump's orders are enforced and when they figured out how screwed up the rules in Europe were with banned Europeans being able to drive to the UK and Ireland and fly to America and claim they were never in hotspot nations, Trump soon added UK and IRL to the restrictions. Chinese were able to fool Italy. Europeans weren't able to fool Trump.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 03, 2020, 02:25:43 PM
Two nurses reported to have died in the UK today after catching the Coronavirus. The first medical personnel we have had to pass away I believe showing the real danger of working in that profession at the moment:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-51952607

Personally for the risks involved I wouldn't blame any medical professional for staying well clear of it. It's not like they joined the army or anything nor ever agreed to put their life on the line to save others. I suspect some medical professionals are staying away though under the guise of being off sick with flu or cold like symptoms. Again I don't blame them, most Doctors in particular are highly paid in this country so potentially sacrificing a good lifestyle is something they would have to weigh up. The nurses today each apparently had three children each so much misery there no doubt. I personally don't think the sacrifice of saving unknown strangers over my family would be worth the risk for me. Odds are these two nurses may have not fathomed that, that was the very real possibility that could be more likely than they thought.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on April 03, 2020, 02:48:06 PM
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/cb033120dAPC20200331124521.jpg)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on April 03, 2020, 03:20:37 PM
(http://cdn.creators.com/199/275814/275814_image.jpg)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 03, 2020, 03:45:28 PM
It's official, Trump and Surgeon general recommends all people wearing masks when out in public. It's voluntary, not mandatory. They say wear a simple cloth mask and save the surgical and N95 masks for medical professionals. They say wash hands before putting the mask on your face.

If any of you want to wear masks, search for info on how to properly fit your mask.

Trump was asked in his briefing today if he would lockdown the country. Trump said he'll continue to let the governors make decisions for their States. These states do not have a stay at home order: Alabama, Arkansas, Iowa, Missouri, North Dakota, Nebraska, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah and Wyoming.

Trump is not happy with 3M

Trump is still going to honor orders of PPE by European nations from American companies instead of hoarding them for Americans. He said their problems are much worse than ours.

Reporter asked where is Dr. Fauci. Trump criticized him he's always the reporter to ask the question and makes a big deal that there must be problems between Trump and the Dr.

Trump said he accepted two cruise ships to save lives of people of all nations because nobody else wanted those ships.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on April 03, 2020, 07:52:16 PM
(http://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2020/03/ava-louise-10.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=300)   
Woman who licked toilet seat for ‘coronavirus challenge’ wants to cough on Dr. Phil         
Quote
This wanna-be influencer has a real potty mouth.
Ava Louise, the desperate-for-fame 22-year-old who went viral (http://nypost.com/2020/03/16/woman-licks-plane-toilet-seat-for-coronavirus-challenge/) for licking an airplane toilet seat in a “coronavirus challenge” TikTok video, has officially flushed her reputation even further into the septic tank.
The aspiring singer and self-described “skinny legend” shared some crappy words with television therapist Dr. Phil in an interview that aired Thursday, according to Insider (http://www.insider.com/dr-phil-coronavirus-challenge-toilet-licker-2020-3). Specifically, she was so ruffled by Dr. Phil’s criticism of her bizarre viral upload, which is no longer available on TikTok, that she said — in the midst of the ongoing coronavirus pandemic — she’s tempted to cough on him.
Ava Louise has claimed that her john-licking stunt was for clout, and had previously appeared on “Dr. Phil” twice in 2019.
In this most recent interview, Dr. Phil asked, “If you infect one person that loses their life, is it worth it for you to have this attention?”
“Yeah,” she answered.
MORE....
http://nypost.com/2020/03/26/woman-who-licked-toilet-seat-for-coronavirus-challenge-wants-to-cough-on-dr-phil/
She is quite the commodian huh?  :P

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 03, 2020, 08:39:08 PM
It looks like Argentinian land  ;)in the Falkland Islands has suddenly been infected.  I'm rather curious to see how the infection made it there.  They have isolated the patient, but haven't said where he may have got it from yet.  Was the individual traveling, or did the virus just suddenly spring up from cargo, or the ocean.   

Falkland Islands reports first case of the coronavirus

 Falkland Islands has confirmed the island territory's first case of the coronavirus, the government said in a statement http://twitter.com/i/web/status/1246169936105541632 on Friday.

The patient has been hospitalized since March 31 and developed a range of COVID-19 symptoms, tested positive for the virus, and ....

  http://news.yahoo.com/falkland-islands-reports-first-case-210437361.html  (http://news.yahoo.com/falkland-islands-reports-first-case-210437361.html)

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 03, 2020, 08:49:33 PM
China deserves the lions share of the blame but some experts and politicians in Italy deserve blame too. 
Viruses have been around way before humans, I don't blame China, or Italy.  From my view it is more politics to blame China in an effort to gain leverage in future business deals.  If China, or the US, let this virus loose from a lab it would be a different story of course.  The US has done a poor job of taking the virus very seriously and that is all on us.  I continue to believe that Trump's main objective is the US economy.  For better or worse I think he accepts that more will likely die, by not taking more serious action, which would come at the expense of the economy.  He is shooting the dice, and for some the tumbling dice come up snake eyes. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 03, 2020, 09:23:59 PM
Trench proves how much attention he pays..

Two nurses reported to have died in the UK today after catching the Coronavirus. The first medical personnel we have had to pass away I believe showing the real danger of working in that profession at the moment:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-51952607

NO, Trench .. not the first ..a 55 year old ENT specialist died ( news from 29/3 )

http://metro.co.uk/2020/03/29/nhs-doctor-55-dies-testing-positive-coronavirus-12474615/ (http://metro.co.uk/2020/03/29/nhs-doctor-55-dies-testing-positive-coronavirus-12474615/)


Personally for the risks involved I wouldn't blame any medical professional for staying well clear of it. It's not like they joined the army or anything nor ever agreed to put their life on the line to save others. I suspect some medical professionals are staying away though under the guise of being off sick with flu or cold like symptoms. Again I don't blame them, most Doctors in particular are highly paid in this country so potentially sacrificing a good lifestyle is something they would have to weigh up. The nurses today each apparently had three children each so much misery there no doubt. I personally don't think the sacrifice of saving unknown strangers over my family would be worth the risk for me. Odds are these two nurses may have not fathomed that, that was the very real possibility that could be more likely than they thought.

Trench, WHY do you post such guff ?

For sure, many staff as scared - because in many cases that do not have the proper PPE..  We can thank our lucky stars there are people less selfish than you
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 03, 2020, 09:30:16 PM
Viruses have been around way before humans, I don't blame China, or Italy. 


If somebody has a disease, lied to you saying it's not transferable so you let your guard down and then gives it to you, you wouldn't blame them? Imagine the hell people would give Trump if he did what China did.

I continue to believe that Trump's main objective is the US economy.


USA owns controlling shares in the IMF(International Monetary Fund) because we have the most money to loan. 90 nations have asked the IMF for a loan to fight COVID-19.  If their economies collapse and then their government collapse, all hell is going to break loose and I'm not talking about the coronavirus. It'll be man on man. Watch what happens to the first nation that collapses.

Bad news. French study says hydroxychloroquine and a related medication, chloroquine doesn't work.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/small-trial-finds-hydroxychloroquine-not-124054137.html

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0399077X20300858?via%3Dihub

6 week old baby dies from virus

http://news.yahoo.com/6-week-old-connecticut-dies-123340671.html

Australia tells over a dozen cruise ships to go home.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/no-port-in-a-storm-australia-tells-virus-stricken-cruise-ships-to-go-home/ar-BB126RO0?ocid=spartanntp

Chris Cuomo lost 13 lbs in 3 days from COVID-19. He's going through some rough times. Read about his experience below as he tries to beat the virus at home.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebrity/chris-cuomo-says-hes-lost-13-pounds-in-3-days-from-covid-19-symptoms/ar-BB126JV3?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 03, 2020, 09:54:31 PM
It looks like Argentinian land  ;)in the Falkland Islands has suddenly been infected.

Watch it, FT ;)

Would be interesting to find out patient 0 ( from the islands PoV ) prior contact ..

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 04, 2020, 12:57:58 AM
Trench proves how much attention he pays..

NO, Trench .. not the first ..a 55 year old ENT specialist died ( news from 29/3 )

http://metro.co.uk/2020/03/29/nhs-doctor-55-dies-testing-positive-coronavirus-12474615/ (http://metro.co.uk/2020/03/29/nhs-doctor-55-dies-testing-positive-coronavirus-12474615/)


Trench, WHY do you post such guff ?

For sure, many staff as scared - because in many cases that do not have the proper PPE..  We can thank our lucky stars there are people less selfish than you

Apparently according to you that PPE doesn't work as after six minutes they can throw it in the bin. So medical staff are pointlessly wearing it why?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 04, 2020, 04:10:19 AM
Another DUH moment for Trench

Apparently according to you that PPE doesn't work as after six minutes they can throw it in the bin. So medical staff are pointlessly wearing it why?

The PPE that they ( should ) use is PROPER kit .. including filter masks ..

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 04, 2020, 04:13:14 AM

Personally for the risks involved I wouldn't blame any medical professional for staying well clear of it. 



This is a strange way to express gratitude to our healthcare professionals.  I hope your thought is temporary, reflecting you suffer from mental stress caused by the pandemic.  Many people are stressed out.

Otherwise, it suggests you will never fully grasp the gift from your mother, namely life, to be human, to be humane.   
 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 04, 2020, 04:34:09 AM
Trench will try to tell you he's just 'joshing' you ... for 'fun', soon ..

From the moment I noted his 'empathy' re a dead kitten, I knew why he can't find a woman ...   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 04, 2020, 08:53:07 AM
i told you dumb phuques over two years ago, that you were all gonna be drinkin’ the kool-aid....
yeah....

so by mid-April y’all should have your first millionth Corona kool-aid drinker
good for you!
imagine being that lucky person
and by the end of the month you might even hit 2 million

did ya’ll know that the GRU infected the Roosevelt?
from facebook, twitter, tic-toc, GRU scraped USN profiles of horny sailors, of which there seemed to be quite a few
the girls they hooked up with, were all GRU girls
they put the virus in the drinks of the horny sailors
who are gonna end up disabling the US’s biggest best carrier...

guess what ship they’re working on now dumb phuques?

well golly, in the good 'ole USofA
you’re probably gonna get somewhere in the low millions for the first peak
which should taper off into some kind of plateau sometime after the end of July

but, dear reader...
alas...
in the Autumn, when the leaves begin to fall...
the virus will return with an even larger and longer 2nd peak...
which won’t be over until the beginning of summer 2021

in parallel with 10-20 million corona patients
the health care system will have to cope simultaneously with 50 million flu patients
this will first be referred to as the “surge” and then later as the “crash”
in addition to the virus deaths, deaths that were preventable, aren’t anymore
so don’t forget to add these numbers to the kool-aid drinkers

get used to failure from now on
the surge/crash leads to a cascading failure of industry after industry,
where each fail starts a chain reaction of more fails

along the way, we have “The Summer of Rage” also referred to as “The Purge”
that started first in NYC and then spread to all major urban centers in the USA
and then everywhere else

get used to the ideas that I’m writing here
because this is the reality that you guys created
and what everyone here in the USA will be experiencing by the end of next year

oh...
almost forgot to mention...
the DEPRESSION
yeah, it's gonna be pretty bad, especially later with that deflation then followed by inflation thingy...

and...
the WARS!!!!

and these will be considered the "good times" because of what follows this...

now, do you dumb phuques "get it"?






Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 04, 2020, 09:11:59 AM
I've noticed a new category in the link below pertaining to tests completed by each nation. Many nations are behind. Japan and most Asian nations have not tested very much. Ukraine completed just over 5000 tests. China is not reporting the amount of test they completed. It would be further proof their numbers are going to be way off compared to nations. I'm also sure many nations are using the cheap, inaccurate tests from China. They should pay more from a reliable source.

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 04, 2020, 10:36:36 AM

Earlier I mentioned my wife's Ukrainian friend has 8 relatives living in Massachusetts infected with the virus. I learned more info. Some of them came back from a vacation in Italy before becoming ill. They attend a Ukrainian church and infected some of the church members.

Churches have become a spot to transfer the virus. A Slavic church in the link below had 70 members infected. Some people think God is going to protect them. They forgot God gave them a brain and he wants them to use it.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/at-least-70-people-infected-with-coronavirus-linked-to-a-single-church-health-officials-say/ar-BB12973o?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 04, 2020, 11:06:05 AM
The picture below is 3M's N95 mask. There's been a lot of discussion about this specific brand's face mask. Trump had to issue DPA to force 3M to direct its supplies to out medical workers that are on the frontline and are in dire need of these masks.

I found it ironic why would the country be up in arms against 3M for shipping millions of these mask to other countries instead of sending it here if the N95 masks would only kill our medical workers caring for the COVID-19 victims after wearing it for 30 minutes?

I posted the picture below to show the big warning notification, but what seems astounding to me is it didn't carry a warning that use of this item for longer than 30 minutes is fatal. At least according to the board's self-declared expert on everything under the sun.

See quote below:
THAT is a filter mask - properly sealed .. it'll just suffocate her after 30 mins
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 04, 2020, 11:23:58 AM
Our 'boss-man' just posted an image of  DRY particulates mask  ..


" “N95” types are heavily promoted online. Makison Booth says this is the US equivalent of the UK’s second-most-effective model, imaginatively called the FFP2. However, she says, “we recommend the use of an FFP3 [the highest protection available] because it will filter out more particles”. The US versions are tested only for dry particulates, she says, but the UK FFPs are tested against liquid in aerosols, too. Before you buy any mask, make sure it has a CE certification mark, which indicates conformity with EU health, safety and environmental protection standards.

'Carry on' ..

Recommend folks buy the wrong mask ...



http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/31/our-face-mask-future-do-they-really-help-beat-flu-coronavirus-and-pollution (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/31/our-face-mask-future-do-they-really-help-beat-flu-coronavirus-and-pollution)

http://www.sfgate.com/california-wildfires/article/n95-masks-county-health-safe-advice-doctor-13399569.php][url]http://www.sfgate.com/california-wildfires/article/n95-masks-county-health-safe-advice-doctor-13399569.php (http://[url)[/url]

"Wait, kids & people with breathing problems should NOT wear N95 masks?"
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 04, 2020, 11:29:54 AM
LMAO!

You don't get to weasel out of it, 'homes.

This is BillyB's post that prompted your *expertise* in this....

It's not useless. Some protection is always better than no protection. I still haven't wore a mask since this crisis started but my wife wears a 3M N95 mask when she goes shopping.

THAT is a filter mask - properly sealed .. it'll just suffocate her after 30 mins

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24217.msg531239#msg531239

So go ahead, take your time, show the board EXACTLY what was misunderstood in these exchanges, homes? When you're done with this (which we know you'd weasel out of again), please solve the following equation.

What's 2 plus 5 minus 1?

:devil:

As for your silly futile, weak attempt to backpedal your assertion above due to additional exposure of your stupidity and embarrassment, I had already made all those mask distinction back on March 4, 2020.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24136.msg528287#msg528287
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 04, 2020, 11:30:55 AM
Thousands of foreign prostitutes working in Germany have been made homeless after brothels closed due to the coronavirus outbreak and borders snapped shut, making it difficult for them to return home.

the estimated 100,000 to 200,000 prostitutes in Germany about 80% are foreign, mainly from Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, and Ukraine.


http://www.yahoo.com/news/sex-workers-stranded-germany-coronavirus-080552453.html


I posted the picture below to show the big warning notification, but what seems astounding to me is it didn't carry a warning that use of this item for longer than 30 minutes is fatal. At least according to the board's self-declared expert on everything under the sun.


Moby makes things up. Your photo has the 3M 8210 mask. All 3M masks have instructions online. For the 8210 mask is says When stored in accordance with temperature and humidity conditions specified below, the product may be used until the
“use by” date specified on packaging, That means the mask can be used until the expiration date. But they also add a Time Use Limitation If respirator becomes damaged, soiled or breathing becomes difficult, leave the contaminated area immediately and replace the respirator. So there is no 30 min time limit like Moby claims. It's based on conditions. Obviously when more particles are in the air, the mask would be clogged faster. Humidity will play a role too. Because air in the hospital is clean from large particles, there are ways to disinfect and dry out the mask to where it can be reused over and over and over again.

Moby, I don't know why you're big on masks now considering last month you were telling a passport control agent to take it off because they're useless. You wanted us to believe you were the expert back then and you continue to want us to believe you're the expert now. Lol
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 04, 2020, 11:55:10 AM


You don't get to weasel out of it, 'homes.


I think you are confused as to who's 'weaselling' ,and 'homes' is still meaningless to a Brit...

Try to deal with your howlers .. WHO posted a 'N95' mask images  suggesting no breathing issues ?

'Thank you'



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 04, 2020, 12:17:02 PM
Thousands of foreign prostitutes working in Germany have been made homeless after brothels closed due to the coronavirus outbreak and borders snapped shut, making it difficult for them to return home.

the estimated 100,000 to 200,000 prostitutes in Germany about 80% are foreign, mainly from Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, and Ukraine.


http://www.yahoo.com/news/sex-workers-stranded-germany-coronavirus-080552453.html

From the article:  " . . . shut brothels last month along with other non-essential businesses . . . "

Non-essential . . . are you kidding me ?? !!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 04, 2020, 12:53:36 PM

I think you are confused as to who's 'weaselling' ,and 'homes' is still meaningless to a Brit...

Try to deal with your howlers .. WHO posted a 'N95' mask images  suggesting no breathing issues ?

'Thank you'

For the record, he did weasel out of it.

I rest my case :devil:
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Nightwish on April 04, 2020, 01:09:25 PM
For the record, he did weasel out of it.

I rest my case :devil:

and do remember, surgical masks are only good for 6 minutes, then completely useless.. I sent this to the University hospital here to warn them, expecting a thank you back at any moment.. wont take credit for it, will direct their thanks to the boards resident expert on everything under the sun.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 04, 2020, 03:09:09 PM

Trump had a briefing today.

He was asked about America intercepting 200,000 3M masks headed for Germany. Trump is accused of piracy. Trump said he's disappointed in 3M not taking care of our country and there was piracy but not by him. I assume he meant the masks should've headed to America and a higher price may have been offered by Germany. Democrats previously accused Trump of not using the Defense Act enough. Now that he uses it, they accuse him of piracy. Funny.

Reporters tried to bring up the impeachment again.

Trump fixed the fake news stories which came out this morning saying China is sending 1000 ventilators from NY which gives the impression the president isn't doing enough. Trump said a couple of friends of his secured the 1000 ventilators from China.


From the article:  " . . . shut brothels last month along with other non-essential businesses . . . "

Non-essential . . . are you kidding me ?? !!

Sex will become non essential. Our whole way of life has changed. No shaking hands, wearing masks, social distancing, no more live concerts and sports. No birthday parties.  :sad:
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 04, 2020, 04:52:43 PM
and do remember, surgical masks are only good for 6 minutes, then completely useless.. I sent this to the University hospital here to warn them, expecting a thank you back at any moment.. wont take credit for it, will direct their thanks to the boards resident expert on everything under the sun.

LMAO!

What is hysterical is, reading this from him...

BillyB - when it comes to common sense and arithmetic , you are bereft ..

then this coming from him...

So, Sweden deaths now at 282 up 182 from 180 ...... that's over ONE HUNDRED percent in a day ...

He can't even claim there was a momentary brain fart when he added 182 + 180 = 282. I mean, I suppose it can happen making careless silly mistakes.

BUT, then he went on and say "...that's over ONE HUNDRED percent..."!!!

:ROFL:
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 04, 2020, 05:02:31 PM
Trench will try to tell you he's just 'joshing' you ... for 'fun', soon ..

From the moment I noted his 'empathy' re a dead kitten, I knew why he can't find a woman ...

Ah, single life giving you plenty of time to reminisce over no doubt treasured memories of your most profound moments we shared together off your life on here, hey Mobers :flowers:
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 04, 2020, 06:06:07 PM
do you poor bastards realize, that by easter, the USA will be adding the same amount of total Corona cases that China has, each and every day...
and ya'll still ain't hit the peak yet...
something tells me the Roosevelt is making people nervous in the Pentagon
hope this doesn't get out...
as well as about all the others which are under a news blackout

seriously, a team of Russians doing web scraping of dating sites
have pin-pointed sailors on almost every vessel
escorts putting actual freakin corona in the corona was brilliant
and most of em will survive, so it's not really murder...

when will Americans learn how to play
I guess Palestinians will be the next ones to join this club

if I were a "certain somebody" I would seriously start to protect vital infrastructure networks from a very well played cyber-attack...
just sayin...
COUGH...huwei...COUGH....


PS
"that's over ONE HUNDRED percent in a day
vrs
that's over ONE HUNDRED in a day....



I don't think ya'll need to worry about floating point errors or stuff like that
and would heartily recommend dealing strictly with integers...
for calculating how many steps the virus marches before it conquers the world

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on April 04, 2020, 08:02:37 PM
Hopefully Homeland Security will squelch him soon.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 04, 2020, 08:37:51 PM
something tells me the Roosevelt is making people nervous in the Pentagon


It's old news. Yesterday Trump didn't agree with the Captain getting relieved of duty. Today he agrees. The Captain wrote a 5 page email to his superiors and copied 20 other people.

The Captain cares about his crew but they stayed in Vietnam for 2 weeks. He should've told his sailor they could leave the ship. Look at the video below with anti Trump media showing it all over the place. One big mass of people cheering for their Captain. Didn't he teach them anything about social distancing? Even the media didn't criticize the scene since they're making it out to be the Pentagon is wrong and Captain is right.

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/490979-sailors-cheer-navy-captain-who-was-removed-after-pleading-for-help-with
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 04, 2020, 09:07:03 PM
Over 1200 deaths here in the USA just today.  Despite having the most money and resources, looks like we are going to get hit very hard if not the most in deaths.  Somehow trump supporters are going to find a way to call this a great job done by the US.  Not bad, not adequate, but the 'most tremendous' job ever. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 05, 2020, 07:49:26 AM
"Hopefully Homeland Security will squelch him soon."

when telling the truth is outlawed, then only outlaws will tell the truth
outlaws have little respect for the law, it's why they became outlaws in the first place
so your comment is just wishful thinking of something that ain't ever gonna happen
like thinkin you're NOT gonna get Corona in the next year....
enjoy drinkin the Kool-Aid, we thank you for your Trump vote
cuz without YOU none of this would have happened

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 05, 2020, 08:40:10 AM
We aren't the only ones to be ripping down our EU flags recently :D

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/1264946/EU-coronavirus-fury-flag-Brussels-Italy-European-Union-aid-latest-news/amp
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 05, 2020, 08:58:58 AM
Why is it that role models keep making arses of themselves ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52175132 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52175132)

Kyle Walker faces disciplinary action from Manchester City after reportedly breaking lockdown rules by hosting a party involving two sex workers.



We aren't the only ones to be ripping down our EU flags recently :D

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/1264946/EU-coronavirus-fury-flag-Brussels-Italy-European-Union-aid-latest-news/amp

Trench quotes from the Daily Mail for his 'news' ..say no more
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 05, 2020, 09:24:48 AM
Yesterday Trump didn't agree with the Captain getting relieved of duty. Today he agrees.
A shining example of consistency ::).
:cluebat:
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 05, 2020, 09:56:25 AM
today it was revealed that Trump himself ordered his firing...
because he's a "whistle blower"
and they are NOT loyal to the great leader
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 05, 2020, 10:16:09 AM
It affected this Russian with tragic consequences - only a hand-full of days into their quarantine


He was 'defending' himself from 'noisy neighbours'..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52173341  (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52173341)

..with his shot-gun..


Five shot dead in Russia for 'talking loudly'


Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 05, 2020, 12:03:49 PM
A shining example of consistency ::).
:cluebat:

It shows Trump can change his mind after receiving the facts. Like most common people a Captain relieved of duty because he cares about his soldiers sounds bad. Sounded bad to Trump but he went out of his way to obtain facts, unlike most people, and was able to change his mind. Firing the Captain was the right thing to do.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 05, 2020, 02:34:12 PM
Very sorry to see Lord Bath passed away from Coronavirus today. The man led the way in male chauvinism and degrading women to a pair of tits and a bum. Truely an inspiration to us all! If we could only but try to emulate him this world would be a better place for us all to live in :D

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-52173794
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 05, 2020, 02:42:13 PM
Just watched a news report on the beeb about people's circumstances in Italy. Apparently many Italians now running out of money. One had just 2.50 Euros left. BC had better did a little deeper into his pocket for them or the situation could go south pretty quick.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 05, 2020, 03:08:07 PM
To the board's Brits TC, JG, CB, Ranetka…

I just heard your PM was rushed to the hospital due to his worsening condition. I send my regards that he can soon turn his condition around and get better.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Ranetka on April 05, 2020, 04:24:01 PM
To the board's Brits TC, JG, CB, Ranetka…

I just heard your PM was rushed to the hospital due to his worsening condition. I send my regards that he can soon turn his condition around and get better.


I do hope he will get better. I do however remember how he wanted most of us to get infected in order to get herd immunity while currying on as normal. He had all the information from China and Italy but sadly he changed his mind way too late. Karma, my friend,
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 05, 2020, 05:12:47 PM
It shows Trump can change his mind after receiving the facts...Sounded bad to Trump but he went out of his way to obtain facts, unlike most people, and was able to change his mind. Firing the Captain was the right thing to do.
I would expect a President/Prime Minister to "obtain facts" BEFORE making statements that he then has to change to the opposite - but I maybe old-fashioned in my views on statecraft, particularly in these contemporary days :-\.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 05, 2020, 05:40:29 PM
I would expect a President/Prime Minister to "obtain facts" BEFORE making statements that he then has to change to the opposite - but I maybe old-fashioned in my views on statecraft, particularly in these contemporary days :-\.

Did this Navy flip-flop change anything? 

Trump's style keeps opponents off balance.  As an industrial giant once advised me privately, "Confusion to the enemy." 

Many people despise Trump's style.  I find him to be more open and direct about his opinions than past Presidents, who all seem to have spoken fewer times and said less.    I prefer that over warm, secretive, and reticent.   However, I would be cautious if buying a condo from him, dismissing half of what he said.   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on April 05, 2020, 06:40:30 PM
Truth of the matter is, of those infected with covid-19, only old farts with medical condition had died so far.

Since, FWIW, the men on this message board don't look their age, or feel 20-25 years younger than their age, methinks no one on this board have anything to be concerned about.


I already have my cemetery lot and both feet on banana peels.
I am offering a significant prize to the hottie that f***$ me to death.
Has to be better than dying from corona.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 05, 2020, 06:42:19 PM

Verily it is written...
That you must own small, unnoticeable items.
For example, a generator is good, but 1,000 BIC lighters are better.
A generator will attract attention, but 1,000 lighters are compact, cheap, and can always be traded.

After the collapse, all trucking stopped
all supermarkets shutdown and were empty anyways
mainly, there were government kitchens and food centers
and folks at the Farmer’s Market
which was a huge parking lot full of tables
of people bartering stuff, food mostly

most folks lived in pods, loners like me are rare
cuz it’s harder to survive that way

pods got their gophers, and soldiers, and they got a “bigdaddy”

gophers, if they’re female, do all the house chores and gardening and tending to animals
male gophers, are used to fetch stuff from the government food bank or the Farmer’s Market

soldiers are not only defensive in nature, but they also scavenge for any opportunity that might come their way that can help feed their eternally hungry pod

meeting some pod’s random soldier on the street, is something to be avoided at all cost
this is why you want to learn how to travel through your territory without ever being seen

if you do see a soldier, and he doesn’t see you
then 100% you should track him back to his pod
and spend a few nights out there scouting their position

if the group isn’t too large or well equipped for a fight
then you might consider taking out the pod’s soldier silently on his next trip out
and coming back that night for the remainder of the pod
for sure, they will have a huge stash of EVERYTHING!!!
ka-ching
plus you get to have an evening of "fun and entertainment"
I mean, that's what I freakin call it
and that's about the only kind there is any more...
so REAL...



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 05, 2020, 07:07:53 PM
Many people despise Trump's style. I find him to be more open and direct about his opinions than past Presidents.
Even if he changes them all too often :wallbash:?
Quote
However, I would be cautious if buying a condo from him, dismissing half of what he said.
Exactly Phil, it's a question of credibility. IMHO, politics should be at a higher level than shady real-estate deals, or used-car lot sales :(.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 05, 2020, 07:32:52 PM
I would expect a President/Prime Minister to "obtain facts" BEFORE making statements that he then has to change to the opposite - but I maybe old-fashioned in my views on statecraft, particularly in these contemporary days :-\.

Trump didn't make a statement. He was asked a question at a briefing. There are a million things that go on everyday. The Navy relieving a Captain of duty isn't high on Trump's need to know list. So when a reporter asks Trump how he feels that a Captain got relieved of duty for caring about his soldiers, of course Trump will say he believes it's wrong. Reporters play games giving the wrong question so they can get a wrong answer. If the "investigative" reporter asked the proper question such as "The captain of the ship got relieved of duty because he wrote a multi page email and sent it to 20 other people outside secure channels besides sending it to his chain of command, do you agree with him being relieved of duty?" Then Trump could've given the correct answer for the proper question but instead the reporter asked him a question that wasn't based on fact which was "Do you agree with the Captain getting relieved of duty because he cared about his soldiers?"

Sandro, it seems you and a few others here embrace the media believing they can do no wrong. Many Americans understand the games the media plays and no matter how hard the media tries to influence our votes, we understand the truth about the games they play. Trump will get re-elected with a bigger win than he had last election.


I do hope he will get better. I do however remember how he wanted most of us to get infected in order to get herd immunity while currying on as normal. He had all the information from China and Italy but sadly he changed his mind way too late. Karma, my friend,


Do you or any other person from the UK have an article or video of saying he wants everybody infected to get herd immunity? Or is it possible the media twisted his words. If he said what you've said he said, that would be irresponsible.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 05, 2020, 08:14:58 PM
A lot of jokes about how husbands and wives are ready to kill each other due to spending 24/7 with each other.

But in truth, it is happening and it's not so funny.

Local newspaper reports domestic violence calls are way up, along with increased calls related to mental health problems, etc.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 05, 2020, 08:28:24 PM
Even if he changes them all too often :wallbash:?

Often?  I disagree.  Trump has stayed on track regarding the following: tax cuts, regulatory reform, jobs, foreign trade, Iran, Syria's use of chemical weapons, climate change, ISIS, troop deployments, Israel-Palestine,  Paris accords, right to life, etc.   He undertook each of these and stayed on course all the time being subjected to partisan investigations and impeachment.       

Where has Trump changed his policies? He changed some immigration policies because the Democrats refused to negotiate legislation to ease a crisis at our SW border caused by outdated laws.  Trump's  gun control proposals have been inconsistent, yet that is a thorny issue.

You can fault him on Greenland.   My Gawd, the future of America was hanging on that one!;)

You can fault him for a changing message about COVID-19, yet I assert every other national leader was caught flat footed, all of whom made changes as the crisis unfolded.  You can criticize him for voicing hope on numerous occasions, when most were projecting gloom and bleak.  His did promise  the virus will "go away."


Quote
Exactly Phil, it's a question of credibility. IMHO, politics should be at a higher level than shady real-estate deals, or used-car lot sales :(.

The economy, China trade, etc.  are not used cars. 

There are many here in the US who do not attempt to analyze Trump's policies.  Credibility is not an issue to them because they do not listen to what he has to say.   They never would believe it if they did.   It sounds closed-minded to me, but they don't care.   

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on April 05, 2020, 08:32:10 PM
Critical work must go on.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-future-generation/covid-19-coronavirus-and-nuclear-energy.aspx

http://world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/Rosatom-takes-measures-to-protect-workers-from-COV

Glad I am retired. When I was working in powerhouses many of my coworkers were from Chicago. Their children would bring bugs home from school, give them to their parents, and it would quickly spread to the job sites. Seemed like everyone was fighting at least one new bug if not several.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 05, 2020, 08:43:24 PM
To the board's Brits TC, JG, CB, Ranetka…

Don't forget good old mooby!

Fathertime!
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 05, 2020, 08:47:17 PM

I do hope he will get better. I do however remember how he wanted most of us to get infected in order to get herd immunity while currying on as normal. He had all the information from China and Italy but sadly he changed his mind way too late. Karma, my friend,

Karma indeed. But you’re gracious as always for wishing him well anyway. As for what you tell us he said, I’d rather have the folks of the U.K. opine about that.

Stay safe.q
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 05, 2020, 08:50:11 PM
Don't forget good old mooby!



I have a very special status ;)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 05, 2020, 08:59:01 PM
Was talking to my buddy in Lake Havasu Arizona.   He says the populace is up in arms over the unwanted Californians coming over and bringing the virus to their lake community.  They have a few cases there now and are blaming it on people from California.  They want to keep Californians out so they have closed down the docks.  My buddy is slated to come over here to California to pick up some stuff but is concerned the Arizona border will be closed up on him.  I think that is a little over the top, but that is the mindset some apparently have. 

Fathertime!   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 05, 2020, 09:18:13 PM
Often?  I disagree. 

Then you are selectively blind..

Trump has stayed on track regarding the following: tax cuts, regulatory reform, jobs,


To benefit whom ? ..  example Jobs: mainly lost to automation / A.I. .. not China

foreign trade

(!) He hasn't delivered' and often made matters worse.


 Iran, Syria's use of chemical weapons

1/ ( Iran) Sanctions on whom the the RoW ignored - and for good reason - 'Trampu's' policy SUCKED - pushing  Iran's 'govt.'  into a lose,lose situation

2/ (Syria) Firing a few missiles ( not so accurately ) from afar, has done NOTHING to save ( 'the 'terrorists') the population of Syria (that disliked an un-elected Family Dynasty)  from being aerial bombed and shelled - with Kremlin help .. a la Spain before WWII ..then we had the Kurd debacle.. where thousands were killed by Trampu's stupidity




  climate change

Are you for REAL ?  Most of his own advisers (at the time) -even Oil firms CEOs - warned him of the folly of withdrawing from Kyoto ..
ISIS

Hmm, who's actions caused thousands of 'ISIS' ... (Daesh) fighters to be released after US allies had rounded  them up ?


troop deployments,

Again, their removal called thousands of lives to be lost ... ( not US ones ) but the lives the US presence ensured lives weren't being lost ..e,g. Syria

Israel-Palestine

Now, you've REALLY lost it .. Recognising Jerusalem as the 'capital' of Israel .. ?   

Paris accord

Madness- already covered


right to life

'Trampu' : "pro-choice in every respect,” now ( anti-abortion?) and 'consistent' to you  ?

 :deadhorse:


 

There are many here in the US who do not attempt to analyze Trump's policies.  Credibility is not an issue to them because they do not listen to what he has to say.   They never would believe it if they did.   It sounds closed-minded to me, but they don't care.

Based on your very own post  - my contention re blindness / selective hearing would seem to be polite way of illustrating whose minds are closed ..


The man flip-flops on what he says / does so often it's SCARY
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 05, 2020, 09:53:09 PM

I have very good news. Vietnam and Laos are tied with North Korea for zero deaths. Although all three nations border China, they are doing a fabulous job controlling the virus. They all have Communist governments. If only we had Communist governments, we'd be safe from the virus too.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 05, 2020, 10:27:45 PM
I have very good news. Vietnam and Laos are tied with North Korea for zero deaths. Although all three nations border China, they are doing a fabulous job controlling the virus. They all have Communist governments. If only we had Communist governments, we'd be safe from the virus too.
I'm not sure about how they are keeping their stats...but it does seem the virus isn't as deadly as it was originally reported to be...although it could jut be wishful thinking on my part.   Seems to be a lot worse than the flu but it isn't spreading as fast as it seemed it would in most of the world...and if it is spreading it isn't taking out as high a percentage of people as it seemed it might when it started. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 05, 2020, 10:32:58 PM
I have very good news. Vietnam and Laos are tied with North Korea for zero deaths. Although all three nations border China, they are doing a fabulous job controlling the virus. They all have Communist governments. If only we had Communist governments, we'd be safe from the virus too.

..or one could wish to be ruled by dictatorships..

THEY have no deaths either .. Syria, Belarus, Turkmenistan

OR

nations where 'leaders' tell their people this is nothing to worry about ..

 “It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear”
On February 28, Trump said that coronavirus will “disappear” like a “miracle” while speaking at a press conference for his coronavirus task force. On Tuesday, he told reporters on Capitol Hill that coronavirus “will go away.” In late February, he speculated that warm weather would kill the virus and stop its spread. None of these statements are backed by science or infectious disease experts within his own administration"

Thank you, BillyB for drawing attention to those who tell us 'good news' ..





Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 05, 2020, 10:47:04 PM
I'm not sure about how they are keeping their stats...but it does seem the virus isn't as deadly as it was originally reported to be...


Either the virus doesn't like nations that have Communist governments or the governments are purposely reporting low deaths to give the impression they are doing a good job fighting the virus.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 05, 2020, 10:50:23 PM
Did this Navy flip-flop change anything? 

Trump's style keeps opponents off balance. As an industrial giant once advised me privately, "Confusion to the enemy." 

Many people despise Trump's style.  I find him to be more open and direct about his opinions than past Presidents, who all seem to have spoken fewer times and said less.    I prefer that over warm, secretive, and reticent.   However, I would be cautious if buying a condo from him, dismissing half of what he said.   

Gator,

That feeds into the hypothesis expressed by many of His supporters that He is somehow smarter than us all, that somehow his 'wisdom' is infallible and beyond our means to comprehend and understand.

Or is it a self-preservation technique?  Going 'both ways' he can always refer back to the time he was right.

My bet is on the latter. 

A typical example is his push for the yet unproven drug hydroxychloroquine.  From a 'could be a gamechanger' based on anecdotal evidence, a market was created. Trump's fallback CYA position: "What do you have to lose?"  Sounds more like a snake-oil salesman than a well-informed leader.  It is a gamble. If it works He can claim brilliance even with limited efficacy, but if not - well you didn't lose anything.  That's His game of Trump.

Ordered your supply yet? Maybe taking it already?

There are a ton of remedies being researched.  Why not just list them all and simply say that scientists are doing their damnedest find something that can kill this bug?.  No political gain in doing so..

Disclaimer:  This post contains political content as a reply and is not intended to 'inject political partisanship' into this thread.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 05, 2020, 10:56:24 PM
A typical example is his push for the yet unproven drug hydroxychloroquine.  From a 'could be a gamechanger' based on anecdotal evidence, a market was created. Trump's fallback CYA position: "What do you have to lose?"  Sounds more like a snake-oil salesman than a well-informed leader.  It is a gamble. If it works He can claim brilliance even with limited efficacy, but if not - well you didn't lose anything.  That's His game of Trump.


I wouldn't say it's Trump's game. It's what people want. They so much want a cure and treatment to be found. I read it from people on the forums. My wife sometimes tells me wonderful news about a cure or treatment that is around the corner. She tells me her cousin in Germany talked to people "in the know" about a vaccine they're about to create. I know it's not true. I know there has never been a treatment or vaccine ever created for a coronavirus but people want hope and they want to hear good news. Give the people what they want. Trump delivers.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 05, 2020, 11:11:09 PM
Billy,

People do deserve and can handle the truth.  They don't need to be sold alternatives.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 06, 2020, 03:18:39 AM
Italy's health service on the brink of falling apart. Many Doctors & Nurses there infected with Coronavirus as they try to treat the infected. May not be long before many cut and run for it:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-italys-doctors-and-nurses-are-in-trauma-over-deaths-of-more-than-100-colleagues-11968928
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 06, 2020, 04:08:50 AM
Trench,

Tell all that to the folks making the same enormous sacrifices that may end up treating you. 

The article mentions nothing of the sort you claim.

in fact:

Quote
As medics grieve for the colleagues they have lost, they are working to compensate for so many others that have been infected and are in quarantine.

Shame on you. Go live your dark, miserable life elsewhere.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 06, 2020, 04:26:54 AM
Trench,

Tell all that to the folks making the same enormous sacrifices that may end up treating you. 

The article mentions nothing of the sort you claim.

in fact:

Shame on you. Go live your dark, miserable life elsewhere.

I'm living my dark, miserable life in Dorset at the moment so far we have had only 180 Coronavirus cases and 28 deaths and being in the Southwest region of the UK one of the least hit areas in the UK so far. So in quiet a good situation so far compared to the rest of the world :)

Recent news from these parts are that the local hospitals are going to take part in Coronavirus trials offering patients the chance to take potentially life saving drugs that may help cure them rather than faceca pessimistic outlook. That has to be good news since it is better to have the option than not at all I feel. With a bit of luck progress will come quick and we'll have some stuff to help treat this virus soon.

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/18360185.coronavirus-royal-bournemouth-hospital-agrees-trials/

You see BC, I can be positive where there is good news to be had :)

I only thought it decent of me to spell out what can happen in certain situations to give people wind of it in advance so at least they are prepared for the eventuality should it occur.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 06, 2020, 04:28:56 AM
Meant to be humorous..

From a Cypriot friend living in San Francisco..

Thank you, Marina!


A bit of humour so we can maintain sanity.
Some clever soul (meaning: not me) came up with this:

*A RECAP OF THE LAST THREE WEEKS*

AMERICA: Oh my god! Coronavirus! What should we do?

CALIFORNIA: Shut down your state.

AMERICA: Wait... what? Why?

CALIFORNIA: Because 40 million people live here and we did it early, and it’s working.

NEBRASKA: Whoa... whoa... let’s not be hasty now. The President said that this whole coronavirus thing is a Democratic hoax.

CALIFORNIA: He also said that windmills cause cancer. Shut down your state.

TEXAS: But the President said that we only have 15 cases and soon it'll be zero.

CALIFORNIA: The President can’t count to fifteen nor even spell it. Shut down your state.

NEW JERSEY: Us too?

CALIFORNIA: Yes, you guys too. Just like when Christie shut down the bridge, but it’s your whole state.

FLORIDA: But what about all these kids here on spring break?? They spend a lot of money here!

CALIFORNIA: Those kids invented the Tide pod challenge. Shut down your state.

LOUISIANA: But wait let’s have Mardi Gras first. It entertains people.

CALIFORNIA: It also kills them. Shut it down.

GEORGIA: Ok well how about we keep the state open for all of our mega churches? Maybe we can all pray really hard until the coronavirus just goes away!

CALIFORNIA: Which is working like a charm for mass shootings. Jesus told us to tell you to shut down your state.

OKLAHOMA: What about the tigers?

CALIFORNIA: What about a dentist. Shut it down.

WYOMING: Hold up, maybe we should go county by county like the president said.

CALIFORNIA: Stop acting like there are counties in Wyoming. There are no counties in Wyoming. Wyoming is a county. Shut it down.

PENNSYLVANIA: But big coal.

CALIFORNIA: But big death. Shut it.

WEST VIRGINIA: But we were the last state to get coronavirus!

CALIFORNIA: And don’t make us explain to you why that was. Shut it down.

NORTH CAROLINA: But the Republican National Convention is coming here!

CALIFORNIA: SHUT... OK, fine, do what you want.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 06, 2020, 04:34:03 AM
I'm living my dark, miserable life in Dorset at the moment

Last week you were in Wales..what 'essential travel' are you doing that would incur such movement?

I am in the SW and the cases are proportionate with other regions of the UK other than Gtr London and the W.Midlands..

Please stop travelling..

Do you understand govt. Ministers in Scotland had to resign for doing the same?



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 06, 2020, 04:40:13 AM
Last week you were in Wales..what 'essential travel' are you doing that would incur such movement?

I am in the SW and the cases are proportionate with other regions of the UK other than Gtr London and the W.Midlands..

Please stop travelling..

Do you understand govt. Ministers in Scotland had to resign for doing the same?

I don't travel to socialize that's the difference, travelling alone does not spread the virus or risk catching it at all, how can it? There is no one else around and I'm surrounded by a metal & glass box moving at speed. It's those out doing their daily exercise that could risk spreading it. Though that could soon finish it appears.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 06, 2020, 04:58:25 AM
I don't travel to socialize that's the difference, travelling alone does not spread the virus or risk catching it at all, how can it? There is no one else around and I'm surrounded by a metal & glass box moving at speed. It's those out doing their daily exercise that could risk spreading it. Though that could soon finish it appears.

I'm afraid our Trench is too thick to absorb ....

1/ You went shopping in Wales ..

2/ You'll go shopping in Dorset ..


You're a potential spreader ...  end of .. a TWAT and a dangerous one, at that ..   

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 06, 2020, 05:05:10 AM
I'm afraid our Trench is too thick to absorb ....

1/ You went shopping in Wales ..

2/ You'll go shopping in Dorset ..


You're a potential spreader ...  end of .. a TWAT and a dangerous one, at that ..   

Both regions already have Coronavirus, I would need to shop for food where ever I  am, we all have to do that. So no more risk is amounting out of me travelling back and forth to Wales since I always travel alone.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on April 06, 2020, 05:16:52 AM
Unable to post an interesting article due to the poor maintenance of this site.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 06, 2020, 05:29:56 AM
Both regions already have Coronavirus, I would need to shop for food where ever I  am, we all have to do that. So no more risk is amounting out of me travelling back and forth to Wales since I always travel alone.

http://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do (http://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do)


"Stay at home
Only go outside for food, health reasons or work (but only if you cannot work from home)
If you go out, stay 2 metres (6ft) away from other people at all times
Wash your hands as soon as you get home
Do not meet others, even friends or family.

You can spread the virus even if you don’t have symptoms."

Specific to YOU:
"8. Can I visit elderly relatives?
No, you should not be visiting family members who do not live in your home."

Now, what part of those rules do you think you are 'exempt' from ...?

IF you try telling me you have a 'vulnerable' relative.. you should be staying away .. or have been with them and not leaving ..
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 06, 2020, 05:32:27 AM

A typical example is his push for the yet unproven drug hydroxychloroquine.  From a 'could be a gamechanger' based on anecdotal evidence, a market was created. Trump's fallback CYA position: "What do you have to lose?"  Sounds more like a snake-oil salesman than a well-informed leader.  It is a gamble. If it works He can claim brilliance even with limited efficacy, but if not - well you didn't lose anything.  That's His game of Trump.


I see it differently BC. Hydroxychloroquine has shown effective in combating  covid in many of the cases when it's applied. It is a legal drug and has passed the FDA already for another illness. To tie it's application up in bureaucratic red tape now is insanity. A good leader would cut through that red tape and allow the doctors that wish to, to use it. He is doing just that. I'm with him and I too think it's madness of the media to pick a bone with his position on it. We have it, use it. Some of those 10K that have died might've wished they had it too
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 06, 2020, 05:34:00 AM
http://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do (http://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do)


"Stay at home
Only go outside for food, health reasons or work (but only if you cannot work from home)
If you go out, stay 2 metres (6ft) away from other people at all times
Wash your hands as soon as you get home
Do not meet others, even friends or family.

You can spread the virus even if you don’t have symptoms."

Specific to YOU:
"8. Can I visit elderly relatives?
No, you should not be visiting family members who do not live in your home."

Now, what part of those rules do you think you are 'exempt' from ...?

IF you try telling me you have a 'vulnerable' relative.. you should be staying away .. or have been with them and not leaving ..

You're reading into it all too rigidly Mobers. It basically comes down to whether what you are doing is spreading it or not. As I am socially isolated in Wales and during my travelling there is no extra risk.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 06, 2020, 05:41:04 AM
You're reading into it all too rigidly Mobers. It basically comes down to whether what you are doing is spreading it or not. As I am socially isolated in Wales and during my travelling there is no extra risk.

You and BillyB seem to have the same 'thick as granite' gene ..

I'm applying it EXACTLY as intended ... YOU can be many of the asymptomatic carriers, you utter MUPPET ...  STAY at home and home means ONE place .. not gallivanting across S.Wales and SW England

You are a potential  Public health risk - period

 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 06, 2020, 06:00:03 AM
I see it differently BC. Hydroxychloroquine has shown effective in combating  covid in many of the cases when it's applied. I

Hydroxychloroquine has been touted as a possible treatment for this form of Coronavirus , in spite  of scant and even conflicting evidence that it works / actually makes the situation worse for people with it.

French and UK studies have not found this to be a panacea...   

 

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 06, 2020, 06:07:54 AM
You and BillyB seem to have the same 'thick as granite' gene ..

I'm applying it EXACTLY as intended ... YOU can be many of the asymptomatic carriers, you utter MUPPET ...  STAY at home and home means ONE place .. not gallivanting across S.Wales and SW England

You are a potential  Public health risk - period

 

Mobe the government/some people have got it wrong when they say 'stay at home, protect lives'. That was just supposed to be the overriding message, it was not supposed to be taken literally. It was only ever supposed to mean 'stay at home as opposed to going out to socialise/meeting others' basically journey our that could end with spreading the virus. It was never meant to mean those travelling alone not to meet anyone. For me it is the equivalent of walking into another room of the house, since I meet no extra other people outside of the home and hence don't spread the risk. At some point some people grasped it to mean travelling full stop, but travelling in itself with not people contact won't spread the virus. Some people just take something said and just go galavanting off with it before engaging brain unfortunately ::)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 06, 2020, 06:09:46 AM
Hydroxychloroquine has been touted as a possible treatment for this form of Coronavirus , in spite  of scant and even conflicting evidence that it works / actually makes the situation worse for people with it.

French and UK studies have not found this to be a panacea...   

Stay on topic and quit deflecting in an effort to display that you know what you are talking about because you clearly do not. It is this corona virus covid-19 we are discussing. Not other forms. French and UK studies mean exactly dick and not germane to this discussion. Ask the dying man if he'd like some?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 06, 2020, 06:25:58 AM
Stay on topic and quit deflecting in an effort to display that you know what you are talking about because you clearly do not. It is this corona virus covid-19 we are discussing. Not other forms. French and UK studies mean exactly dick and not germane to this discussion. Ask the dying man if he'd like some?

Mr Mistake,

I'm 'sorry' but as you have no idea of my 'qualifications'  to bust your promoting a drug / combination of drugs that might make someones condition worse  ( and in most case, no better ) and the credentials of those in the French / UK trials as 'BOLLOX' ...   Then, I'll ask yours ?..

My biz involves micro monitoring kit (  leisure, healthcare  ) and my partners are a Russian MD, UK Microbiologist and retired surgeon - the latter combined having 65 years between them and having respected articles on Ebola .. and MERS ..having worked in Africa, Middle East, Indian sub continent ...


Sorry, the other guys are just a brilliant electronics expert and I ( the least qualified of the lot,) only got an Advanced level in Biology (specialising in Genetics )

I guess your 'qualifications' are,  "'Trampu' said it was good "..






 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 06, 2020, 07:07:54 AM
I see it differently BC. Hydroxychloroquine has shown effective in combating  covid in many of the cases when it's applied. It is a legal drug and has passed the FDA already for another illness. To tie it's application up in bureaucratic red tape now is insanity. A good leader would cut through that red tape and allow the doctors that wish to, to use it. He is doing just that. I'm with him and I too think it's madness of the media to pick a bone with his position on it. We have it, use it. Some of those 10K that have died might've wished they had it too

Does it really matter with BC? Had it had been Obama saying this he’d be trumpeting what a fearless thing to say and would be saying what you just did.

 I mean read the messages here about leaders shouldn’t be changing their minds about anything and remain consistent. They all conveniently forget Obama’s consistency throughout his presidency. From calling the Cambridge cop an asshole, to incrimination both George Zimmerman and Darren Wilson before investigation/trials, keeping your doctors, ISIL being JV, redlines etc...

This have nothing to do with Trump, nor any of what he’s doing/done. Bottom line, regardless of what any AMERICAN think, he’s put the US on sound economic footing before this crisis came, and unlike places like Italy, we can rest assured we can at least rely on not having to be whored to China when all of these are over because our economy wasn’t already on ventilator made in China before the gift of Chinese virus came to town. 

That’s the bottom line.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 06, 2020, 07:26:23 AM
Mobe the government/some people have got it wrong when they say 'stay at home, protect lives'. That was just supposed to be the overriding message, it was not supposed to be taken literally. It was only ever supposed to mean 'stay at home as opposed to going out to socialise/meeting others' basically journey our that could end with spreading the virus. It was never meant to mean those travelling alone not to meet anyone. For me it is the equivalent of walking into another room of the house, since I meet no extra other people outside of the home and hence don't spread the risk. At some point some people grasped it to mean travelling full stop, but travelling in itself with not people contact won't spread the virus. Some people just take something said and just go galavanting off with it before engaging brain unfortunately ::)

Trench,

It literally means stay at home.  Scotland's Chief Medical Officer got dinged for doing what you did.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-52177171 (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-52177171)

Quote
Dr Calderwood had earlier been given a police warning for breaking the lockdown rules after the Scottish Sun published photographs taken on Saturday of her and her family visiting Earlsferry in Fife - more than an hour's drive from her main family home in Edinburgh.

Fife location is the medical officer's second home.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 06, 2020, 07:37:46 AM
Then you are selectively blind... [more partisan opinions]......[more partisan opinions]....   etc., etc.,

It gives me a strange sense of pleasure to prompt a 1,000 word rise from you....cheap thrills in this era of sequestering at home?

Although the issue was Trump's consistency/inconsistency, you instead erupted with a 1,000 words about your partisan opinions, all of which proved Trump has been mostly consistent.   

Hint:  when you are irritated, try to address the issue.   
 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Ranetka on April 06, 2020, 07:42:48 AM
..or one could wish to be ruled by dictatorships..

THEY have no deaths either .. Syria, Belarus, Turkmenistan

OR

nations where 'leaders' tell their people this is nothing to worry about ..

 “It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear”
On February 28, Trump said that coronavirus will “disappear” like a “miracle” while speaking at a press conference for his coronavirus task force. On Tuesday, he told reporters on Capitol Hill that coronavirus “will go away.” In late February, he speculated that warm weather would kill the virus and stop its spread. None of these statements are backed by science or infectious disease experts within his own administration"

Thank you, BillyB for drawing attention to those who tell us 'good news' ..


Belarus reported 13 deaths, Syria 2. And yes it is easier to control pandemic if you control the population, surely it is fairly obvious?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 06, 2020, 08:13:43 AM
I checked yesterdays Who.int sitrep info...haven't looked today.

The countries I mentioned were all ZERO.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Ranetka on April 06, 2020, 08:38:28 AM
I checked yesterdays Who.int sitrep info...haven't looked today.

The countries I mentioned were all ZERO.


Would you like a link I use? It is www.coronavirus-monitor.ru
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Ranetka on April 06, 2020, 08:41:53 AM
Quote from: Ranetka link=topic=24217.msg531550#msg531550 date=1586187508
 [url=http://coronavirus-monitor.ru/
http://coronavirus-monitor.ru/[/url]


Should work now.






Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 06, 2020, 08:46:44 AM
I see it differently BC. Hydroxychloroquine has shown effective in combating  covid in many of the cases when it's applied. It is a legal drug and has passed the FDA already for another illness. To tie it's application up in bureaucratic red tape now is insanity. A good leader would cut through that red tape and allow the doctors that wish to, to use it. He is doing just that. I'm with him and I too think it's madness of the media to pick a bone with his position on it. We have it, use it. Some of those 10K that have died might've wished they had it too

My statement was an example of Trump's well err... tricknique.

I don't have any problem with any doctor prescribing this stuff to their patients, on or off label.   I do not agree with his push to announce it as 'could be a gamechanger' to the nation on the scant and anecdotal evidence that is available today, much less when he started promoting it.  It's great he has pushed FDA to free up avenues for the use of just about anything that might help including compassionate usage.  There are a number of interesting treatment candidates being developed and tested around the world. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 06, 2020, 08:48:14 AM

That feeds into the hypothesis expressed by many of His supporters that He is somehow smarter than us all, that somehow his 'wisdom' is infallible and beyond our means to comprehend and understand.


It is not 'wisdom.'  Trump's success derive more from working harder, faster, and longer than his opposition.  In other words, he  is relentless.   Further, and this rubs many people wrong, he uses tactics not generally seen in the theater of "war" being conducted. 

The above response is an explanation, not a justification. 
         

Quote
Or is it a self-preservation technique?  Going 'both ways' he can always refer back to the time he was right.

 :D   That's an interesting way to phrase it.  Regarding COVID-19 he chooses to remind us repeatedly of his January ban of Chinese travel, but not to his early opinions that proved too optimistic.   The latter is done by reporters.  :D  This is an example of his "me, me, me" style, and I don't like it.  I assert Hillary would have done the same, or would she say "What difference does it make.".   
 

Quote
A typical example is his push for the yet unproven drug hydroxychloroquine.  From a 'could be a gamechanger' based on anecdotal evidence, a market was created. Trump's fallback CYA position: "What do you have to lose?"  Sounds more like a snake-oil salesman than a well-informed leader.  It is a gamble. If it works He can claim brilliance even with limited efficacy, but if not - well you didn't lose anything.  That's His game of Trump.

Let's hope it works.  Yes?   

This is a doctor-patient decision, and more and more patients are electing to try the med.   

NYC today and yesterday has reported a decline in daily deaths while the number of daily new cases is flattening.   If anything, deaths should continue to increase after reaching the apex of daily new cases.   Is this a blip or due to some factor such as increased use of hydroxychloroquine? 

   
Quote
Ordered your supply yet? Maybe taking it already?

In America, it is not available OTC.  If I had symptoms, I would take it at a dosage thought prudent by my doctor.  Also, I would take it if I were a respiratory physician working in a NYC hospital. Some are.   Would you?


Quote
There are a ton of remedies being researched.  Why not just list them all and simply say that scientists are doing their damnedest find something that can kill this bug?.  No political gain in doing so.
.

Hasn't Trump already mentioned we have a "rich pipeline" of drugs being investigated as vaccines, therapeutics, etc.   Certainly the Task Force has said such at the White House briefings.  America has the message.   

Quote
This post contains political content as a reply and is not intended to 'inject political partisanship' into this thread.

 :D :D :D  I read this at the end, and did not change a word thinking my response is in the same spirit  (unlike my response to Moby). 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 06, 2020, 08:58:50 AM

I do not agree with his push to announce it as 'could be a gamechanger' ...

You and CNN, who said its overuse could deprive meds from people who have malaria.   ;)

The  theme of "possible gamechanger"  came last week  from a NYC infectious disease physician having positive results with 72 high-risk patients, most of whom have diabetes, etc., and none of whom had to be intubated.  The doctor used the phrase "beginning of the end."  I reported it here:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24136.msg531173#msg531173
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 06, 2020, 09:04:18 AM
My statement was an example of Trump's well err... tricknique.

I don't have any problem with any doctor prescribing this stuff to their patients, on or off label.   I do not agree with his push to announce it as 'could be a gamechanger' to the nation on the scant and anecdotal evidence that is available today, much less when he started promoting it.  It's great he has pushed FDA to free up avenues for the use of just about anything that might help including compassionate usage.  There are a number of interesting treatment candidates being developed and tested around the world.

You obviously fully subscribed to CNN, BC, as I happen to have watched them engage in this discussion obsessively. Maybe take 10 and see things with better clarity. Trump never said anything other than this COULD BE a gamechanger based on anecdotal and other clinical reports where favorable results emerged. What the heck is wrong in 'trying' ANYTHING that already yielded good results. Even Dr. Fauci never said do not try it, nor did he ever disregard and/or dismissed the medication. As a scientist, he simply said before he can FULLY subscribe to anything, it needs to follow scientific protocol. Good. In the meantime, how much time will that take?

The drug has been around a while, so it won't kill anyone taking it - but based on 'some' testimonial and reports, it appears to 'help' with their condition. Why you have such a problem with this only tells me of your hate against Trump is politically driven. Methinks if put in a condition and you're about to expire, if the doctor offered this drug, I highly doubt you'd turn it down.

Good thing Trump or anyone from the task force haven't peddle this cure (http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/tb-vaccine-appears-to-offer-protection-against-covid-19/story-lHholAkFWyOW5HSWI3A4zM.html) as well.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 06, 2020, 09:14:49 AM
Mobe, the Italian government will be/is essentially bankrupt, it will default on all of its debts as there is now no way they can pay them. They were heavily indebt before this crisis, way more than this country, there will be no way they can pay their debts now. Think Greece but on a larger scale.

One of Italy's source of revenue is tourism. IIRC, it generates a bit less than 20% of their GDP. It'll be a few years before Italy can get back to where they were before the pandemic. Especially because of the pandemic. The Chinese can certainly help in this...They can and likely will, send hundreds of thousands, if not millions, to fill the void and 'support' Italy as part of their new partnership and dependency.

Their fashion industry, another good source of revenue, a good chunk of which is now owned by Chinese  companies.

The economic backlash of this pandemic will wreck havoc in every country's economy. The biggest question is how each country will rebound when all of this is over.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 06, 2020, 09:25:56 AM
You obviously fully subscribed to CNN, BC, as I happen to have watched them engage in this discussion obsessively. Maybe take 10 and see things with better clarity. Trump never said anything other than this COULD BE a gamechanger based on anecdotal and other clinical reports where favorable results emerged. What the heck is wrong in 'trying' ANYTHING that already yielded good results. Even Dr. Fauci never said do not try it, nor did he ever disregard and/or dismissed the medication. As a scientist, he simply said before he can FULLY subscribe to anything, it needs to follow scientific protocol. Good. In the meantime, how much time will that take?

GQ,

Did I not state 'could be' in my posts?  and 'I don't have any problem with any doctor prescribing this stuff to their patients, on or off label.'  Seems you are shooting from the hip and your aim is a bit off.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 06, 2020, 09:32:45 AM
No, I'm not shooting from the hip, you are for getting as riled up about this matter as CNN.

If you never had any problem with Trump promoting use of the medication, then what exactly IS your issue other than the obvious effect of CNN in your psyche?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 06, 2020, 09:37:19 AM
My statement was an example of Trump's well err... tricknique.

I don't have any problem with any doctor prescribing this stuff to their patients, on or off label.   I do not agree with his push to announce it as 'could be a gamechanger' to the nation on the scant and anecdotal evidence that is available today, much less when he started promoting it.  It's great he has pushed FDA to free up avenues for the use of just about anything that might help including compassionate usage.  There are a number of interesting treatment candidates being developed and tested around the world.

Semantics. I haven't seen his push to announce it as a gamechanger. I've heard him discuss it in his daily briefings but far from promoting it. He said he wants it available. Maybe he did and I missed it but, the fact remains it is an approved drug for malaria and 'some' doctors are finding it useful specifically with some older patients with covid when not much else is working. IMO it should be left up to the doctors and there for them to use without waiting on any further testing or approval from medical journals or the MSM. Also IMO it doesn't even warrant discussion of whether it should be administered unless it is from the doctors on the front line of whom would administer it
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 06, 2020, 09:46:36 AM
You and CNN, who said its overuse could deprive meds from people who have malaria.   ;)

The  theme of "possible gamechanger"  came last week  from a NYC infectious disease physician having positive results with 72 high-risk patients, most of whom have diabetes, etc., and none of whom had to be intubated.  The doctor used the phrase "beginning of the end."  I reported it here:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24136.msg531173#msg531173

My thoughts are based on reading the reports of how these limited tests were performed along with published results.  I am a fan of the scientific method.  I do hope double-blind testing shows positive results.  These do however take time, thus as I replied to GQ I don't have anything against any MD prescribing it, even for off label use.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 06, 2020, 09:49:09 AM
No, I'm not shooting from the hip, you are for getting as riled up about this matter as CNN.

If you never had any problem with Trump promoting use of the medication, then what exactly IS your issue other than the obvious effect of CNN in your psyche?

I already described my objections, and I am not riled up - instead I am responding to prior posts of others on the subject.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 06, 2020, 09:51:51 AM
I do not know why you guys go over politics over and over again here.  I thought there was another thread for that?

Chances of changing anyone's opinion:  0%.  Well, maybe 0.00000000001%

Chances of wasting time while quarantined:  99%?

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 06, 2020, 09:56:51 AM
I already described my objections, and I am not riled up - instead I am responding to prior posts of others on the subject.

Awesome! Then this subject can be put to bed.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 06, 2020, 10:06:52 AM
Semantics. I haven't seen his push to announce it as a gamechanger. I've heard him discuss it in his daily briefings but far from promoting it. He said he wants it available. Maybe he did and I missed it but, the fact remains it is an approved drug for malaria and 'some' doctors are finding it useful specifically with some older patients with covid when not much else is working. IMO it should be left up to the doctors and there for them to use without waiting on any further testing or approval from medical journals or the MSM. Also IMO it doesn't even warrant discussion of whether it should be administered unless it is from the doctors on the front line of whom would administer it

As stated, I don't disagree with the bold part of your post.  As for the rest, plenty of youtube videos to watch and WH briefing transcripts.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 06, 2020, 10:09:36 AM
Awesome! Then this subject can be put to bed.

Indeed!  We can chat again when the results of one of the many clinical trials are published.

Maybe the rest of folks around here can also agree.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 06, 2020, 10:24:30 AM
Indeed!  We can chat again when the results of one of the many clinical trials are published.

Maybe the rest of folks around here can also agree.

Mr Mistake will simply diss any non supporting trial as 'irrelevant' - even if as in France - it found this can kill patients that would otherwise survive



Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 06, 2020, 10:41:34 AM
Mr Mistake will simply diss any non supporting trial as 'irrelevant' - even if as in France - it found this can kill patients that would otherwise survive

Oh, I don't think like you at all.  In roundabout ways, we have been able to agree on quite a bit.  I'm quite liberal (in the non-political sense) when it comes to giving the benefit of the doubt.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 06, 2020, 10:49:08 AM
Mr Mistake will simply diss any non supporting trial as 'irrelevant' - even if as in France - it found this can kill patients that would otherwise survive

Moobs you are just a moron and everything supports that. The tests and trials for the drug have long been concluded for it's intended application. Those should not be dismissed because they are done so by you, the RWD resident expert, Gobshite and useful idiot who never has had a conclusion or a thought of his own but, only joins a discussion for the purpose of disagreement. Did you consult you contacts around world before making that post?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 06, 2020, 10:56:40 AM
Oh, I don't think like you at all.  In roundabout ways, we have been able to agree on quite a bit.  I'm quite liberal (in the non-political sense) when it comes to giving the benefit of the doubt.

Do you need the link he 'dissed' ? ;)
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 06, 2020, 10:58:45 AM
Moobs you are just a moron and everything supports that. The tests and trials for the drug have long been concluded for it's intended application. Those should not be dismissed because they are done so by you, the RWD resident expert, Gobshite and useful idiot who never has had a conclusion or a thought of his own but, only joins a discussion for the purpose of disagreement. Did you consult you contacts around world before making that post?

No, just the Lancet .. a renowned, long standing UK medical journal ... but you KNOW that ... ;)

I'd take their articles and trial results over your 'evidence', anytime
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 06, 2020, 11:00:14 AM
No, I don't need the link as it seems you two may be talking past each other.  FP refers to the trial for its intended use while you refer to the limited trials for use against Coronavirus.

You both may be correct... how 'bout that?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 06, 2020, 11:07:49 AM
I do not know why you guys go over politics over and over again here.  I thought there was another thread for that?

Chances of changing anyone's opinion:  0%.  Well, maybe 0.00000000001%

Chances of wasting time while quarantined:  99%?

Oh, they don't expect to change anyone's mind Steve, they just like to argue, particularly our Mobe. To the Irish arguing is a national sport, if our Mobe wasn't able to argue then he would rather die of the Coronavirus.

Trump seems to hold an unusual fascination amount the US crowd on here. They seem to go into the nitty gritty ins & outs rather than the big policy picture I tend to find. I personally only find the big policy picture interesting.

Unfortunately I think the hug bear amount US guys on here about the nitty gritty US politics Trump stuff tend to make its way through a bit. Just something to have to live with for those of us not too concerned I guess.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 06, 2020, 11:38:43 AM
It is interesting to see and to note how certain things are developing that would've been otherwise unheard of before this pandemic hit globally. I read in the news the other day that the feds may step in and forced the airline companies, amongst other businesses, to refund tickets that were sold before the shutdown, including those non-refundable purchases.

Allstate Insurance (http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/allstate-to-return-600-million-in-auto-premiums-as-pandemic-cuts-driving/ar-BB12dUIE?ocid=spartandhp) just today announced that because the lockdown resulted in cutting auto traffic in the US, that it would refund up to about $600 million in auto insurance premiums for a given period.

I hope all other industries, in the same vein, follow suit.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 06, 2020, 11:38:50 AM
Oh, they don't expect to change anyone's mind Steve, they just like to argue, particularly our Mobe. To the Irish arguing is a national sport, if our Mobe wasn't able to argue then he would rather die of the Coronavirus.

Trump seems to hold an unusual fascination amount the US crowd on here. They seem to go into the nitty gritty ins & outs rather than the big policy picture I tend to find. I personally only find the big policy picture interesting.

Unfortunately I think the hug bear amount US guys on here about the nitty gritty US politics Trump stuff tend to make its way through a bit. Just something to have to live with for those of us not too concerned I guess.

Trench,

in your case, I'm defo not 'arguing .. You are deliberating flouting all advice to stay home and flitting between Wales and Dorset

You are a liability

You  need educating and a tracker fitted to control you   
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 06, 2020, 12:34:36 PM
Awesome! Then this subject can be put to bed.



Can not be put to bed given there are so many drugs in the pipeline.     Given that HCQ has years and years of human use, we know the risks to health, and in not more than 2-3 months, we should know its scientific efficacy against COVID. 

If I were to guess, I would say HCQ will prove to be somewhat beneficial,  but less effective than some other drugs for whom tests are just now starting. 
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on April 06, 2020, 12:39:43 PM
You and CNN, who said its overuse could deprive meds from people who have malaria.   ;)

The  theme of "possible gamechanger"  came last week  from a NYC infectious disease physician having positive results with 72 high-risk patients, most of whom have diabetes, etc., and none of whom had to be intubated.  The doctor used the phrase "beginning of the end."  I reported it here:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24136.msg531173#msg531173 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24136.msg531173#msg531173)

Hydroxychloroquine can't be used by everyone.  Those with heart conditions, for example. There's also some preliminary (though not peer reviewed) findings that it increases death rates in diabetics on metformin.   That's for patients without COVID-19. 

Some physicians have claimed large doses of Vitamin C have helped their COVID-19 patients.  Others have used mixes of other drugs.  It's difficult to know what to believe, and I think we just have to wait until experts sort it out.  It's not useful for people with no medical training to put "possible" cures out there, or to debate the issue publicly.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 06, 2020, 12:50:34 PM
No, I don't need the link as it seems you two may be talking past each other.  FP refers to the trial for its intended use while you refer to the limited trials for use against Coronavirus.

You both may be correct... how 'bout that?

Moob's history is to be wrong about everything. I don't believe he is right about anything nor does he care. He only looks to be contrary to every post no matter the subject. He's proven wrong time and time again only to argue and enter another strawman totally unrelated to the previous. My guess is, he was dropped on his head to many times as a child, an obvious explanation. Unfortunately, I do not post anything for or to him (except to remind him that he is a moron as he tends to forget) I post for others and he merely interjects.

Of course my reference is that the drug is approved for malaria. Under normal circumstances it would require trials for covid. These are not normal circumstances and we know the side effects thus, the drug should be accepted for use. As Trump did state, if it can save a life, it's worth the chance.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 06, 2020, 01:08:22 PM
Can not be put to bed given there are so many drugs in the pipeline.     Given that HCQ has years and years of human use, we know the risks to health, and in not more than 2-3 months, we should know its scientific efficacy against COVID.

While true and in agreement, my statement to BC actually was to move away from the Trump-based politics of the administration of the drug.

Quote
If I were to guess, I would say HCQ will prove to be somewhat beneficial,  but less effective than some other drugs for whom tests are just now starting.

I share the sentiment. For now though, even if this ultimately gave a dying person 'hope', then it served a 'purpose' - IMHO.

I was reading some pretty horrid realities for many, if not the majority, of these victims in ICUs. They suffer from a 'drowning-like' sensation as soon as the body's auto-immune system begins its work and it starts destroying their lungs' ability to filter oxygen in their blood stream. The patient then gets injected with anesthesia to put then under and either gets their trachea cut to insert a breathing tube, or is placed on ventilators. This in turn becomes critical as many times its' difficult to determine how much damage their lungs sustained from the virus, and if it can still withstand the air pressure coming from the breathing apparatus - potentially doing more damage than good. Even if they survived, the likelihood of a prolonged life after going through this apparently is slim to none. It's like a death sentence if one got this far.

If the 'drug' can be administered 'prior' to getting to this stage, and it helped one, few, some, many, most - maybe none but gave 'hope' anyway, why not.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 06, 2020, 01:14:27 PM
FP,

Moby's 'gotta have the last word' viral effect on internet fora is well known, possibly for decades. There is only one known cure and that is virtual distancing, whether by ban or by simply ignoring replies that are not constructive.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 06, 2020, 01:17:28 PM
Just heard Boris is in ICU.

I might not like his politics, but do hope he recovers.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 06, 2020, 01:20:10 PM
Just heard Boris is in ICU.

I might not like his politics, but do hope he recovers.

Ditto. Edited to add - I've no opinion about this 'politics'. Not for me to opine one way or another.

I hope he gets better.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 06, 2020, 01:36:27 PM

If the 'drug' can be administered 'prior' to getting to this stage, and it helped one, few, some, many, most - maybe none but gave 'hope' anyway, why not.

Exactly. 

Such is referred to as "compassionate use" when involving experimental drugs.   HCQ differs because we have years and years of safe use in humans for other diseases, making this an "off-label" use.   This from Wiki says it all:

Quote
The ability to prescribe drugs for uses beyond the officially approved indications is commonly used to good effect by healthcare providers.

Marketing of a drug for off-label use is prohibited.  This begs the question of whether there is any quid pro quo.  Sorry....slap my wrist
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 06, 2020, 02:11:02 PM
you guyz listening to the medical advice from the guy who was behind the Trump University scam...
while simultaneously thinking that you’re one of the “smart ones”
is freakin’ hilariously funny
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 06, 2020, 02:13:52 PM
FP,

Moby's 'gotta have the last word' viral effect on internet fora is well known, possibly for decades. There is only one known cure and that is virtual distancing, whether by ban or by simply ignoring replies that are not constructive.

BC, it is  'well known' by those who dislike being busted for posting tosh ..

When I questioned your 'Irishness' I was wrong and conceded same ..   

For what reason should I be banned' ?  For countering 'Kremlin' propaganda elsewhere or daring to question 'Trampu' on here ?

Calling out Trench or referring to BillyB as silly ..?


Ah, perhaps it's because I translate the aptly named Mr faux pas ..

May be I upset Maxx, by wishing hi to be 'safe' ..

All heinous crimes deserving of a ban...

It's OK, I'm not complaining about your non constructive post .. my shoulders can ( just ) bear it ..


Now.. for Trench ..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-52183888
 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-52183888)

for the next time you THINK it's smart to drive to see family ..

..and finally to BoJo's family .. hoping he recovers fully .. it is a shame that it takes your illness to wake ( some of ) us up to how serious this could be .. 












Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 06, 2020, 02:16:24 PM
Just heard Boris is in ICU.

I might not like his politics, but do hope he recovers.

Indeed, as I do. I think he is a decent guy and doesn't get in your face like some politicians, he has a relaxed communication style which makes him easier to bear hearing on TV than most of them.

Even more importantly I think he is crucial to the Brexit process. I feel he has done a good job to date so far on Brexit. I don't really see any other in the Tory party that could carry the job as well as him.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on April 06, 2020, 02:26:48 PM
Hemingway Was Once Quarantined with his Wife... and Mistress
http://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/arts-and-culture/a31827643/hemingway-quarantine-wife-mistress/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on April 06, 2020, 02:41:41 PM
Hemingway Was Once Quarantined with his Wife... and Mistress
http://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/arts-and-culture/a31827643/hemingway-quarantine-wife-mistress/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Reminds me of the joke about the two golfers.   One turns around and says, OMG.  My wife and mistress are in a twosome directly behind us.   His golfing buddy looked over his shoulder and said:  "Don't worry.   I have the same problem."
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on April 06, 2020, 05:24:21 PM
It's easy to shelter in place today and for the next 3 days.  Not sure about LA and Orange County, but if we get much more rain in the Inland Empire, I think we are going to float away.  :)

It's a good time to catch up on indoor projects that have been put off for a long time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 06, 2020, 05:55:58 PM
Allstate Insurance (http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/allstate-to-return-600-million-in-auto-premiums-as-pandemic-cuts-driving/ar-BB12dUIE?ocid=spartandhp) just today announced that because the lockdown resulted in cutting auto traffic in the US, that it would refund up to about $600 million in auto insurance premiums for a given period.


Thanks for the article. Made me happy because I use Allstate.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 06, 2020, 06:16:16 PM
I’m elated of the news from LA mayor Garcetti’s press briefing this evening. Starting today testing is open for everyone else albeit some qualification. Certain age bracket with medical condition, but one no longer have to have symptoms.

For you Angelenos, check LACity website for testing locations and additional information.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 06, 2020, 06:35:52 PM
Thanks for the article. Made me happy because I use Allstate.

Me too.  Just got email that refund will be around 15%.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on April 06, 2020, 06:40:18 PM
I’m elated of the news from LA mayor Garcetti’s press briefing this evening. Starting today testing is open for everyone else albeit some qualification. Certain age bracket with medical condition, but one no longer have to have symptoms.

For you Angelenos, check LACity website for testing locations and additional information.

Have you heard of the drive up testing sites??

http://covid19.lacounty.gov/covid19-news/new-testing-sites/

register online for appointment( some qualifications)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 06, 2020, 07:51:18 PM
1.  It seems the economy would bounce back.  I haven't seen a slowdown in sales even through the virus.  People seem to have plenty of money to this point.

2.   It seems the virus isn't as bad as predicted to this point.  If the trend continues, I think America should get back to work. 

3.  I think trump has done an adequate job overall. 

4.  When things normalize I'm going to miss how empty the roads have been over the past few weeks. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 06, 2020, 08:17:46 PM
I haven't seen a slowdown in sales even through the virus.


If you haven't seen a slowdown in sales, you're definitely not into selling sex. The commercial sex industry is not doing too good at this time.

Some construction projects of mine stopped but others continue. I sell computers online in my second business. Sales are doing extremely well and continues to go up. Sold $4000 worth this weekend. I figure a lot of people are staying home and want to play on a PC instead of a tiny phone. The problem is trying to get parts to build more computers. Most computer parts come from China and there is a major disruption in the supply chain, probably due to many factories and distributors having to shut down. Some are back to selling while others are still shut down.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 06, 2020, 08:55:10 PM
Have you heard of the drive up testing sites??

http://covid19.lacounty.gov/covid19-news/new-testing-sites/

register online for appointment( some qualifications)

LAMAN-

Quite impressive to me that both the City and County is adding and beefing up their testing services for free. To note both uninsured and illegal aliens are welcome as well.

Not sure if those drive-ups are for me though. They are only equipped with those 9” inch long sticks with a half inch diameter swabs that they insert through your nose until it bangs against the edges of your eye bone sockets, and then slowly scrape downward hard against the cartilage off your nose. :devil:  then they expect you to continue driving after that ordeal.

I think I’ll call our doctor to see if they can or will conduct testing in the offices instead. Maybe they’ll have a more humane test kits.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on April 06, 2020, 10:34:32 PM
LAMAN-

Quite impressive to me that both the City and County is adding and beefing up their testing services for free. To note both uninsured and illegal aliens are welcome as well.

Not sure if those drive-ups are for me though. They are only equipped with those 9” inch long sticks with a half inch diameter swabs that they insert through your nose until it bangs against the edges of your eye bone sockets, and then slowly scrape downward hard against the cartilage off your nose. :devil:  then they expect you to continue driving after that ordeal.

I think I’ll call our doctor to see if they can or will conduct testing in the offices instead. Maybe they’ll have a more humane test kits.

Absolutely.   The one your doctor has is a rectal test.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on April 06, 2020, 11:00:20 PM
Absolutely.   The one your doctor has is a rectal test.

From what I hear GQ, the rectal one is 24 inches. I won't describe where it goes but women have said they would rather give child birth!!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 07, 2020, 04:54:37 AM
So where’s the nearest drive through again?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 07, 2020, 05:16:29 AM
So where’s the nearest drive through again?

Oh, they ran out of swabs so are using these now to collect samples as they can be sterilized and reused.  They're bent so can reach an area of the sinus near the ear canal that is less sensitive.

(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/EN8AAOxy4c5RuC3P/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on April 07, 2020, 06:35:34 AM
CDC greatly lowers death projections from CV19
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cdc-he...spartanntp

One of the nation’s top public health officials suggested Monday that because Americans are taking social distancing recommendations “to heart,” the death toll from the novel coronavirus will be “much, much, much lower” than models have projected.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 07, 2020, 08:09:49 AM
CDC greatly lowers death projections from CV19
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cdc-he...spartanntp

One of the nation’s top public health officials suggested Monday that because Americans are taking social distancing recommendations “to heart,” the death toll from the novel coronavirus will be “much, much, much lower” than models have projected.

That's good news and bad news. If social distancing is the answer to save lives, it will prevent us from efficiently working and alter our behavior forever unless a vaccine is found.

We have more knowledge and technology than ever before. Every lab in the world capable of making a vaccine is working on a vaccine. There has never been this level of effort to look for a vaccine in history. Hope we succeed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 07, 2020, 09:19:31 AM
Keep expectations low and be pleased when it turns out a trend is definite.

Had several 'false hopes' here in Italy.  Seems to come in waves.  What does seem consistent is that if this is THE peak in the US it is very similar to the peak here in Italy when population differences are calculated.

[edit]   On the 'upslope', doubling of daily infections was 3-4 days, on the 'downslope' seems we're at 10 or days so to halve.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 07, 2020, 10:20:02 AM
Now.. for Trench ..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-52183888
 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-52183888)

for the next time you THINK it's smart to drive to see family ..

..and finally to BoJo's family .. hoping he recovers fully .. it is a shame that it takes your illness to wake ( some of ) us up to how serious this could be ..

They can always appeal the fine Mobe, take it to court, etc. If he can prove that it fell under one of the reasons to be out or didn't pose any greater risk than staying at home then he should get off. That said I think he will have difficulty, I think he was having a laugh at the ridiculousness of saying you could be on a shop whenever.

My situation is different to that guy, I am travelling to my home address which is permissible and I travel alone and live alone at my other home address so don't pose any greater risk from the travelling.

Today my company write to me to inform me I am a Key Worker :D I never thought in all my life I would become of such great importance, yet that day has finally come! Enclosed was a letter to show Police should I be stopped. I take it as a sign that the lockdown is soon to be ramped up.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 07, 2020, 10:23:35 AM
Trench, you can BS yourself all you want, but a govt minister in Scotland and one in NZ have either resigned or been demoted and admitted they were DUMB for behaving as you do ..

STAY at HOME ... means home - singular..

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 07, 2020, 10:28:00 AM
Keep expectations low and be pleased when it turns out a trend is definite.

Had several 'false hopes' here in Italy.  Seems to come in waves.  What does seem consistent is that if this is THE peak in the US it is very similar to the peak here in Italy when population differences are calculated.

Indeed, I agree. We are all likely to be in lockdown for a significant time. At the moment various media, governments, politicians even scientists are making out it will just be a few more weeks, it will be over in May, etc. This is all BS as it's likely to take months. Rate of new infections need to fall to zero then a few weeks pass before lockdowns can be lifted otherwise it all starts up again.

Recent news is that we/it can infect animals. That means it's likely to lengthen the time lockdowns continue. If cats, birds etc can catch it then that will lengthen the whole thing out most likely.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-52177586
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 07, 2020, 10:29:31 AM
Oh, they ran out of swabs so are using these now to collect samples as they can be sterilized and reused.  They're bent so can reach an area of the sinus near the ear canal that is less sensitive.

What on earth would anyone device an instrument like that for?

Quote
Keep expectations low and be pleased when it turns out a trend is definite.

Had several 'false hopes' here in Italy.  Seems to come in waves.  What does seem consistent is that if this is THE peak in the US it is very similar to the peak here in Italy when population differences are calculated.

A bit difficult to gauge overall US curve as NY is throwing the graph out of whack (http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/). If we are just to take NY, I'd be cautiously 'optimistic' at best. I just don't think they've reached apex yet, IMO. They've flattened out the last 2-3 days (http://covidtracking.com/data/state/new-york#historical) but I have a nasty feeling this is more a short respite for some reason. Just a hunch.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 07, 2020, 10:29:45 AM
Trench, you can BS yourself all you want, but a govt minister in Scotland and one in NZ have either resigned or been demoted and admitted they were DUMB for behaving as you do ..

STAY at HOME ... means home - singular..

But it won't make any difference if I'm at home alone or in my car alone. My chances of catching the virus for both are presumably zero.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 07, 2020, 11:11:34 AM
What on earth would anyone device an instrument like that for?

Posted in jest, but it is described as nasal biopsy forceps- ouch!

Quote
A bit difficult to gauge overall US curve as NY is throwing the graph out of whack (http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/). If we are just to take NY, I'd be cautiously 'optimistic' at best. I just don't think they've reached apex yet, IMO. They've flattened out the last 2-3 days (http://covidtracking.com/data/state/new-york#historical) but I have a nasty feeling this is more a short respite for some reason. Just a hunch.

Let's hope your hunch is wrong - guess we both agree on that point.

For state data found this page pretty informative although a bit slow updating.

http://www.politico.com/interactives/2020/coronavirus-testing-by-state-chart-of-new-cases/

I'd keep eyes out for Connecticut and Oklahoma as possible upcoming hotspots.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 07, 2020, 11:45:24 AM
We just now received a memo from our safety director that one of our mechanic started displaying coronavirus symptoms overnight and didn't make it to work this morning. Our maintenance shop is well within our office compound and it isn't out of norm for shop employees, field personnel, etc...to be seen, or speak with the engineering department staff.

They will make his test result available once they received it. In the meantime, everyone that came in close contact with him have all been asked to quarantine. It's been over two weeks now that we have a crew sanitizing all our facilities, including offices, on a daily basis.

But it just goes to show you how highly transmissible this virus is. I've said before, IMO, the bigger threat are not those who shows symptoms but those who are asymptomatic.

A wife of one of our project managers works as a nurse and is actively treating coronavirus patients at the hospital she works at. He's been asked to work from home because of it until further notice. Presently, we have 6 employees already working from home aside from the addition to this morning's news.

Crazy. Everyone's office doors are closed and is very quiet on the hallways...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 07, 2020, 11:50:50 AM
But it won't make any difference if I'm at home alone or in my car alone. My chances of catching the virus for both are presumably zero.

True.  If you never touch the petrol pump, never touch doors or other surfaces of toilets, don't go to stores for snacks or such, don't touch any other object between your home and your destination that is not touched by anyone else...

Stay home. 

Quote
Police Scotland Chief Constable Iain Livingstone said ""The legal instructions on not leaving your home without a reasonable excuse apply to everyone.

"Social distancing is the key intervention to curtail the spread of coronavirus and it is essential that the instructions are followed to protect each other, take strain from the NHS and save lives.

"Individuals must not make personal exemptions bespoke to their own circumstances."
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 07, 2020, 11:51:56 AM
I'd keep eyes out for Connecticut and Oklahoma as possible upcoming hotspots.

BC-

Why do you think Oklahoma is? Methinks after the current hot states, including Connecticut, that Georgia could be one to flare up (off the current <10K threshold).
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 07, 2020, 12:07:42 PM
GQ,

Just a hunch looking at the slope of their infection curve and testing.  You're right, Georgia could also be a future candidate.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 07, 2020, 02:19:26 PM
True.  If you never touch the petrol pump, never touch doors or other surfaces of toilets, don't go to stores for snacks or such, don't touch any other object between your home and your destination that is not touched by anyone else...

Stay home.

I need to fill up my car anyway to go shop for food at home and also travel to work as I'm a key worker. So the risks are just the same.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 07, 2020, 03:06:51 PM
I'm a key worker.

Oh.. you have a lock on your front door.  Right-left, left-right... sounds complex :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 07, 2020, 05:58:30 PM
I need to fill up my car anyway to go shop for food at home and also travel to work as I'm a key worker. So the risks are just the same.

You need to refuel more often.  You visit more places than you'd normally visit if you kept travel to an absolute minimum.

No, the risk is not the same.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 07, 2020, 06:37:34 PM
attaching fireworks or model rocket engines to arrows and shooting them at night...
just aim at the target, 2nd person lights the fuse, when the fuse is about a half inch from "going off" then you shoot it at the target...
lots of wholesome fun for the whole family!
here in the Corona Capital of the Planet, Ameri-K-A yo homeboyZ
I am an apocalypse gangsta now

straight-up bad-ass MFer
victor of two fights, thus far, 2-0 baby!!!

hence my new moniker, "Dvanosh Grozny"

if I sent you a picture of how I dress for the road, with my bio-hazard punk look
BO would get a sexual rush, if she saw it, and so would PitBuill

I am the kind of man now, that women WANT to be dominated by!!!
BUT!!!
I don't care about women anymore...
life is ALWAYS ironic...

like I used to have a cousin that when he was under 21, was a well known fashion photographer in Paris...
on any given week, he would photograph 3-4 naked or semi naked women who were "10 star"
and he was freaakin  GAY!!!
what a freaking waste!!!
another example of irony...

there's so much irony in the world
that I think belief in God, would just be ironic...

maybe god, is just the creative force in the world...
that when you're a little kid, planting bean seeds in a cup of soil...
the thing that made the seeds sprout up, could be called God
you could have some small faith in this God...
when you waited for them to sprout

but if the creative force is polarized
then it's opposite exists
entropy, which ain't what it used to be
has swept over us like a rising tide

I go out once per week on "missions"
sometime I buy more ammo, for my barter pile
or raw materials at the hardware store

my daughters and I just started building a fort/bunker in the forest behind my house

in the summer, if the virus gets to a low level
then I am planning on replacing the roof on my house, with a fire-proof one...
most likely ceramic tile, and install sprinkler systems, in the attics and in first and second floors
I am also planning on doing a roof-top photovoltaic installation that will charge 8 deep cycle 12V marine batteries
this will give me completely silent electric power without requiring generator fuel












Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 07, 2020, 07:03:36 PM
krimster2, you are :D ...

(http://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_medium/11/111746/6692258-madhatterdisney.png)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 07, 2020, 07:09:34 PM
Insanus sum, ergo non sum...
I never knew the apocalypse was gonna be this MUCH fun...
BUT...
just wait, about 2 more years!!!
OMG!! if I'm still alive, it will be the most bitchin time in history!!!!
and I AM READY!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 07, 2020, 07:51:44 PM


Played golf today with social distancing and a variety of mitigation measures.  I felt safe given that one playing partner is an ER physician and another is a chiropractor.   

Talked from 6 feet with the ER doc.  His hospital is not crowded.  The usual borderline patients are staying home rather than coming in and complaining about mystery pains or anxiety.  Evidently they fear encountering people with the "virus."

Instead just people will serious illnesses or injuries seek help. He much prefers that type of work.   

I asked him if he was taking HCQ.  No...because its not available.   

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 07, 2020, 08:06:59 PM
6 Degrees of Separation

Boris Johnson being moved to the ICU hits home about this disease and brings it into focus. 


2 Degrees of Separation

So does something else. One golfing friend's  son-in-law is in the local hospital with COVID-19 and not doing well.  Difficult breathing, 103 fever. The SIL and daughter went to NYC on March 14 to celebrate his birthday.  Stupid, even if the trip was planned long time ago.  Now the daughter and their two children test positive.
 

1 Degree of Separation

The wife of my New York partner died two days ago from COVID-19.  She had become frail over the past couple of years.   



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 07, 2020, 08:31:29 PM
Talk radio was afire today with two main themes. 

1.  Blame China
2.  Get back to work! 

I kept on hearing how great we are here in the USA, and what a good job we are doing.  Fedex driver today told me more businesses are closing and less people around the businesses that are open, which is contrary to what Trump seems to be touting which is we need to get back to work.   

Had to hit Home Depot yesterday and today.  Yesterday cashiers were not wearing masks, today they were.  Still seemed voluntary as the wood cutter wasn't wearing a mask although most employees were.

Many people seem resigned that the shutdown is going to last a long time.  My impression is that things are going to start opening May 1.  The show will go on, there will be less activity and earlier deaths will just become a way of life as life itself becomes more dangerous. 
Fathertime!   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 08, 2020, 01:41:24 AM
Could China have really beaten the virus so quickly, within three months?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52208591

They are apparently lifting their lockdown in Wuhan. Would seem strange to do this if there wasn't truth to it perhaps.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 08, 2020, 02:01:12 AM
Why so surprised.?.. an authoritarian state controlled movement and there were few, if any IDIOTS( like you) running around  infecting folk in other areas 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 08, 2020, 02:04:34 AM
Why so surprised.?.. an authoritarian state controlled movement and there were few, if any IDIOTS( like you) running around  infecting folk in other areas

A land without IDIOTS like me??? Hard to imagine!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 08, 2020, 02:05:56 AM
Meanwhile, things are getting dire in Italy:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-52205159/coronavirus-the-italians-struggling-to-feed-their-families

Only one month or so in so far, they may not last.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 08, 2020, 02:47:46 AM
Bullshit previsions of death and destruction again from Trench..  folks are not dead from starvation yet, still far from that.

Provisions have been made give out 400 million EUR in foodstamps to those that need it and don't already receive them.  Discretion who receives these funds is at the local level with few if any restrictions.

Others like myself also continue to donate food to those that need it.  I'll be making a donation again this week to help a few families get through the crisis. In addition, we'll likely give away the 1200 EUR that the Italian .gov is giving our family as our business is not affected that much.

The same thing is being done in many countries, even in the US and UK.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-10m-scheme-to-deliver-10000-food-parcels-to-needy-every-week-in-northern-ireland-39104629.html

You are a very selfish and sick man even without the virus Trench. Help a needy neighbour instead of puffing up your ego on the backs of those in need.


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 08, 2020, 03:25:07 AM
In addition, we'll likely give away the 1200 EUR that the Italian .gov is giving our family as our business is not affected that much.

Great! Can I have it? :D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 08, 2020, 03:37:53 AM
Great! Can I have it? :D

Just like everything else we've donated, t'll go to immigrants that for whatever reason don't qualify for other programs, here legally or not, mostly from Muslim countries just to piss you off.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 08, 2020, 05:54:05 AM
first of all, if Trumpty Dumpty is promoting something, then immediately anyone with an IQ above 100, should automatically know that it's pure BS...
think "Trump University"
secondly, people with lupus take HCQ EVERY DAY, and they still get Corona like everyone else...
ok now?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 08, 2020, 06:49:45 AM
Could China have really beaten the virus so quickly, within three months?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52208591

They are apparently lifting their lockdown in Wuhan. Would seem strange to do this if there wasn't truth to it perhaps.

I buy parts out of China on Ebay. They aren't selling even half as many parts as they used to on Ebay. China likes to report good news. Don't expect them to report the ongoing bad news.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 08, 2020, 07:24:49 AM
China's 2.5 -3 month 'experience' might well be what we end up with here before loosening up a bit.  Seems China is also using some kind of tracking app, so if someone lands in the hospital all close contacts can be notified and quarantined/tested.  Italy also has a tracking app available but it is not mandatory - yet.  Likely will be when wider testing starts and restrictions loosen up.

Testing likely to be in phases, critical workers like hospital staff/police/officials essential workers followed by other less critical groups.  Guesstimate 6 months.  This would also help whenever a vaccine comes along as many may not need it right away as they are likely already immune.  We still don't know what part of the population had the bug without noticing so yeah, testing is the only way forward for now.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 08, 2020, 07:54:15 AM
China's 2.5 -3 month 'experience' might well be what we end up with here before loosening up a bit.


  -  China welded shut entry doors to apartment buildings.  FACT, VERIFIED BY VIDEO

  -  China forcibly entered flats and removed to parts unknown occupants with elevated body temperature.   FACT, VERIFIED BY VIDEO

  -  China triage included placing some still alive individuals in body bags and dispatching to crematorium.  MULTIPLE YET UNVERIFIED REPORTS



Quote
Seems China is also using some kind of tracking app, so if someone lands in the hospital all close contacts can be notified and quarantined/tested. 

It could be part of a transition plan for returning to work. 


Quote
Testing likely to be in phases, critical workers like hospital staff/police/officials essential workers followed by other less critical groups.


Happening now in Florida.  Maybe why number of positive tests are less than 10%.  Elsewhere?

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 08, 2020, 08:02:53 AM
What's 'interesting' is comparing other nations' attitudes to this as 'lock-down' hits ..

We are only just into 2 weeks of 'lockdown' and we STILL have MUPPETS like Trench that think they are 'special' and abuse the trust the UK govt put in us to 'socially distance'  and STAY AT HOME..

In Russia, Moscow's mayor was the first to order foreigners from certain nations to be quarantined or ( if Russian ) go to their end destination and self-isolate.

'Our' region ( Krasnodar)  introduced one of the strictest regimes to stop the Trench types from thinking no work meant 'holiday time' and closed all hotels ( to new guests ) , restaurants and non essential shops


I was surprised at the anger shown to Putin - given this made sense to save lives ..


Now I 'get it'..

Russians have been told that all is fine ... We have a stability fund - so when the Oil Prices fell and the Rouble with it ...  'reassurances' were made..


Then 'Korona'( that was a symptom of 'European weakness' ) hit and folks were told to stay at home ..

The difference ?   No support packages ... Those with contracts with govts ... 'cancelled' ... many working for the govt are told, " work for two days a week - but your salary is reduced by 60 percent" and no paperwork issued to permit them to travel - even though many govt depts have issued documentation ... there is chaos


Sochi admin tells of 200 citations but people on Odnoklassniki  and FBook discuss visiting friends and meetings in the mountains and how to avoid police checks ...  :deadhorse:


While I talked with SC who was walking back from the shops - I observed two 'militsia' close together, surgical masks around their necks, smoking and in deep conversation. SC was sat on a bench outside the shop ( having done it ) and I asked her to get her arse back inside ..


I asked her today .. " How many people are wearing masks? " ... Hardly anyone - apart from govt officials ..


Trench is 'worried' about Italy and lack of govt funding ... I'm now kicking myself for not insisting SC came to Britain and stayed 'locked up' .. at least we have a gardens here ...


I'm wondering how some Russians will cope if they are ordered not to work, but get no help.


I have friends who assured me they'd be fine, that govt contracts could not be cancelled ... they can go to their Dacha and live off the land ..


I base my viewpoint on what I read  / hear /see via a lens when 'out' with SC ...  if others know different ..welcome.


Right now, Putin's popularity is at an time low..... Russians just want to get on and live ..not get involved in politics ... they do not trust their govt. who when the sh*t has hit the fan ... suddenly say .. you don't understand .... the 'stability fund' is not applicable in situations like this.


They see aid being sent to Serbia and Italy ( example) and wonder why the state tells them to STAY HOME and no provision  to ensure they are financially supported ...












 






Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on April 08, 2020, 08:14:32 AM
We are only just into 2 weeks of 'lockdown' and we STILL have MUPPETS like Trench that think they are 'special' and abuse the trust the UK govt put in us to 'socially distance'  and STAY AT HOME..

Moby,

Do you honestly think that our Trench hasn't been socially distancing/stay
at home for years? Now you think he's the chief ticket seller in the kissing
booth at the fair?

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 08, 2020, 08:15:27 AM
Happening now in Florida.  Maybe why number of positive tests are less than 10%.  Elsewhere?

Very possible.  10k tests per day ain't that awful much though.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 08, 2020, 08:25:49 AM
the B-strain of covid-19
cultured and packaged in Moscva...
in what looks to be a small perfume aerosol dispenser...
but has a hidden built-in adjustable mechanical timer/aerosol dispenser...
sealed in clear pink plastic with English label on the outside
looks pretty innocent

AND...
cheaper and more effective than Novichok!

same program has a private hospital in Moscva with boarded windows and doors
only one wing is functioning...
they process 8 volunteer Corona patients at a time, who are paid $25,000 + officer’s commission to be here, all of them are teenagers...
everyone inside in full haz-mat gear
the GRU was in charge of writing the SQL database program
to select most likely candidates, from incoming recruits...
they preferred as young as possible, with either no parent, or single parent
from some gopnick village

about 1 out of 50 dies...
and money is usually given to parent, or is “kept”
other 49 are immune to the Moscva strain
and are “deployed” as perfume distributors
under a new, never before seen franchise

oh and BTW, FBI will absolutely NOT do anything to investigate Russian espionage
for some strange reason...
so I guess actual freakin sabotage would also fall into the same "hands-off" policy

so all you GRU fellas shouldn’t be slappin yourselves on the back so hard
you never before in your lives have had “open field day” in the USA before
you guys can do WTF you want now....
so, of course, you’re winnin, you’d be incompetent idiots if you weren’t



BTW, any company doing automated rapid batch testing of Corona is gonna be a GRU target, in more than one way...
ponelle?

their first wave of people are ALREADY on the inside
new ones are being made
and then they recruit more and more

then others are gonna "join in" with their brands of perfume, etc.
so Corona Blankets of various sorts are freaking EVERYWHERE 3 years from now folks, from MULTIPLE sources!!!!
and some of the newer strains are gonna be REAL nasty, not like the weak-ass stuff we got now that could only get up to 20,000 dead per week...

but even that weak-assed early corona
was like having 10 years of the Vietnam war happen in 3 weeks
but in America

the second peak was like fighting World War II instead of nearly 5 years...
you fought it in two months but also in America...

third peak was only slightly less...

guess how much of "America" is left at this point?





Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 08, 2020, 09:10:57 AM
Moby,

Do you honestly think that our Trench hasn't been socially distancing/stay
at home for years? Now you think he's the chief ticket seller in the kissing
booth at the fair?

))

Good point, but you got my point, too ..

He is flouting sensible rules and it is now a criminal offender - by his own admission ...  in this case, I believe the Muppet really is flitting back and forth across 5 UK counties
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 08, 2020, 09:27:25 AM

Do you honestly think that our Trench hasn't been socially distancing/stay
at home for years?

 :ROFL:

How about those dancing clubs suggested by RWD women members? 

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 08, 2020, 09:31:00 AM




BTW, any company doing automated rapid batch testing of Corona is gonna be a GRU target, in more than one way...
ponelle?

I will wait, with baited breath for attacks on two Belfast firms ...( for example )

Thank you, BC..Going by your 'logic' ..a Freudian slip ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 08, 2020, 09:55:16 AM
bated or?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 08, 2020, 12:21:36 PM
You need to refuel more often.  You visit more places than you'd normally visit if you kept travel to an absolute minimum.

No, the risk is not the same.

Fuel is the only extra thing I do in general. For that I wear gloves, so the risk isn't really particularly anymore.

By contrast presently in the UK we have loads of idiots out jogging. Many end up only a metre instead of the two if that. Of course the pavements aren't 2 metres wide so it all becomes a bit ridiculous, not to mention a pain in the arse to walk down the road.

I think the whole exercise thing needs to be knocked on the head soon and probably will. It's just spreading the risk too much in comparison to those in cars protected by glass & steel and distanced from those outside. Joggers breathing in and out a lot is just asking for trouble. Aside from that it makes it too difficult for the Police to determine who needs to be out or not. Now that I have my exempt letter as as VIP i.e Key Worker I would happily have more or less free reign of the streets :D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 08, 2020, 01:08:56 PM
I'm now kicking myself for not insisting SC came to Britain and stayed 'locked up' .. at least we have a gardens here ...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: AlyonaN on April 08, 2020, 01:38:43 PM
You need to refuel more often.  You visit more places than you'd normally visit if you kept travel to an absolute minimum.

No, the risk is not the same.

There are more and more confirmed cases in Ukraine -1668 today. Most of all in Kiev. In supermarkets, it is difficult to keep a distance when people come too close. Perhaps large fines will help unconscious citizens.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 08, 2020, 01:43:39 PM
In supermarkets, it is difficult to keep a distance when people come too close.


Alyona, if somebody gets too close to you at the supermarket, start sneezing and coughing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 08, 2020, 01:57:52 PM
"Perhaps large fines will help unconscious citizens."

nyet...
only violence or threats of violence work here
I have been in two fights already while wearing a full bio-warfare hazmat suit...
I fight with knives which are legal in the state of Texas
this is why I am known as "DvaNosh Grozny"

because I am bad to the bone...
I keep trying different T-shirt designs to promote social distancing
I like the one of me disemboweling someone
better than the one that said I worked in a Pediatric ward... that one had no effect at all on social distancing, but the disemboweling one sure does!!!

don't be a fool
Buy your Ukrainian made Hydroxychloroquine
from Anteka Kazul
100% durrichki free
Product of Malenkey Rodina Magazine dot com
slovo!

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 08, 2020, 10:40:52 PM
I buy parts out of China on Ebay. They aren't selling even half as many parts as they used to on Ebay. China likes to report good news. Don't expect them to report the ongoing bad news.

I think you likely have the right answer here Billy. It seems strange to me that even with all the quarentining methods they can beat such a viralent virus in so short a period of time.

I wonder if the Chinese government on seeing that it is still persisting despite quarentining measures decided they can't carry on any longer along that path that sooner or later the economy needed to be started up as you can only go so long with most stuff shut up.

They might have seen that a lot of people had mild symptoms and decided to let it run its course and build up 'herd immunity' as Boris would say. Could be interesting to see if any reports from people on the ground out there can be obtained to see if this might be true.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 08, 2020, 11:03:55 PM
Trench,

I am sure you noticed but the herd mentality approach was not adopted by the UK and if it HAD, the PM would be a 'prime example' for its proponents..

Have you got any other 'gems of wisdom' while you try to spread the virus with your 'essential' travel to see family across 5 counties ? ...

Whether BillyB's perception is valid - given ebay auctions are way down ... from UK sellers, too .. China Inc. might be getting ready for 'biz as usual'... but 'we' aren't ...


I don't feel the antipathy to Chinese biz' I detect from some 'Muricans 

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 08, 2020, 11:28:17 PM
Trench,

I am sure you noticed but the herd mentality approach was not adopted by the UK and if it HAD, the PM would be a 'prime example' for its proponents..

Have you got any other 'gems of wisdom' while you try to spread the virus with your 'essential' travel to see family across 5 counties ? ...

Whether BillyB's perception is valid - given ebay auctions are way down ... from UK sellers, too .. China Inc. might be getting ready for 'biz as usual'... but 'we' aren't ...


I don't feel the antipathy to Chinese biz' I detect from some 'Muricans

Could be that China are now entering Phase 2 that Italy are now looking at:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/indepth/features/phase-italy-considers-move-coronavirus-peak-200408090958504.html

So basically booting back up as much of the economy as possible while they ride out the virus by continuing social distancing measures. Essentially that they can't sit and wait it out and leave the economy all but switched off for too long while they wait for the last few numbers to dissipate. Knowing also that they could easily get reinfected from abroad again so little point holding on for cases to reach zero.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 09, 2020, 12:21:28 AM
Looks like here in the UK they are expecting 80 percent of us to get Coronavirus in the end:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52219930

So looks like as above it's more about keeping the economy running alongside the pandemic, avoiding a big surge on hospital beds, preparing for it if necessary and putting off as much as possible until some medicine is developed and given the ok to at least alleviate the serious cases for most people. Going from the above report they are not expecting Coronavirus to disappear anytime soon so it's likely to be around many more months to come, possibly a good year(s) or so.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 09, 2020, 01:22:20 AM
Looks like here in the UK they are expecting 80 percent of us to get Coronavirus in the end:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52219930

So looks like as above it's more about keeping the economy running alongside the pandemic, avoiding a big surge on hospital beds, preparing for it if necessary and putting off as much as possible until some medicine is developed and given the ok to at least alleviate the serious cases for most people. Going from the above report they are not expecting Coronavirus to disappear anytime soon so it's likely to be around many more months to come, possibly a good year(s) or so.

'They' is 'someone' quoting what they say the Passport Agency boss said..

Only the Muppet gang believe the govt suddenly decided to let the virus do it's worst ..

Trench, I have an ex-neighbour and friend who is caring for his kids at home while his wife is self-isolating and showing symptoms in a flat above the village pub ( 100m from the family home) ... She is a Theatre Nurse and MAY have got it from a 89 year old male patient who was operated on (after a fall) to replace a hip..

It was one day she was sent from her small Cotswold hospital to help out in Gloucester ..

No-one has come to test her - to check if he's got it and she's not about to drive to be tested..

The NHS lost another worker for 14 days ...

Meanwhile, you try to tell us the govt has 'decided' to let all hell break loose ? ...  Hmm ...







Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 09, 2020, 02:20:12 AM
'They' is 'someone' quoting what they say the Passport Agency boss said..

Only the Muppet gang believe the govt suddenly decided to let the virus do it's worst ..

Trench, I have an ex-neighbour and friend who is caring for his kids at home while his wife is self-isolating and showing symptoms in a flat above the village pub ( 100m from the family home) ... She is a Theatre Nurse and MAY have got it from a 89 year old male patient who was operated on (after a fall) to replace a hip..

It was one day she was sent from her small Cotswold hospital to help out in Gloucester ..

No-one has come to test her - to check if he's got it and she's not about to drive to be tested..

The NHS lost another worker for 14 days ...

Meanwhile, you try to tell us the govt has 'decided' to let all hell break loose ? ...  Hmm ...

Then pray tell Mobers, how do you see this pandemic ending?

Our village is presently plague free ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 09, 2020, 02:44:27 AM
Then pray tell Mobers, how do you see this pandemic ending?

Our village is presently plague free ;D



How do you KNOW ... ?  I keep telling you ..30 percent or folk folk might be asymptomatic - but carriers ..

'Our' ...so you're back in Dorset, again ?  :deadhorse:


 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 09, 2020, 03:05:09 AM
Count on 2.5-3 months after the first significant number of those testing positive daily.  Significant number somewhere around 15 per million population. For the UK 'significant number' date 15 March.

15 per million seems to be the tipping point where infections go exponential.

This to get to the point that we have decent freedom of domestic movement and begin the process of getting back to normal but still with protective measures required.  That's if all remains as now in lockdown till then without going postal.

The only thing that can shorten it a bit is if we know the portion of the population that has not yet been infected.  Or inversely the portion of the population that has acquired antibodies on a national level.  We're a long way from knowing that.

Just my guesstimate.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 09, 2020, 05:47:29 AM
Count on 2.5-3 months after the first significant number of those testing positive daily.  Significant number somewhere around 15 per million population. For the UK 'significant number' date 15 March.

15 per million seems to be the tipping point where infections go exponential.

This to get to the point that we have decent freedom of domestic movement and begin the process of getting back to normal but still with protective measures required.  That's if all remains as now in lockdown till then without going postal.

The only thing that can shorten it a bit is if we know the portion of the population that has not yet been infected.  Or inversely the portion of the population that has acquired antibodies on a national level.  We're a long way from knowing that.

Just my guesstimate.

I haven't given it much thought until I saw a discussion on TV last night about "normal". They were saying normal as we know it, we may never see again and I think they're right. There's likely to be some sort of invasion of privacy as a result. Our movement, ordered isolation if your ill. It's opened a Pandora's box for law makers.  I've no idea what it'll be but I expect changes
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 09, 2020, 06:44:36 AM
They might have seen that a lot of people had mild symptoms and decided to let it run its course and build up 'herd immunity' as Boris would say.


I don't think the population is going to cooperate with a herd immunity plan. Nations will flatten the curve and number of infections at any given time so it won't overwhelm the hospitals. If a vaccine isn't found, herd immunity will eventually happen where most everybody will experience the coronavirus but if it mutates, the immunity goes out the window.

Did Boris actually say he was thinking about "herd immunity". I know a few of your medical experts thought about it. Could it be your anti Boris media is putting words into his mouth?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on April 09, 2020, 07:39:05 AM
99-year-old beats her battle with COVID-19
SPRINGFIELD, Ill. (WICS/WRSP) — A new report now shows that more than 22,000 people in the U.S. have recovered from the novel coronavirus.
http://nbc16.com/news/nation-world/99-year-old-beats-her-battle-with-covid-19

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 09, 2020, 09:22:30 AM
Could it be your anti Boris media is putting words into his mouth?

BillyB

Newspapers in the UK ( other than the Morning Star ) are taking an apolitical viewpoint on this crisis .. you may be confusing the feelings you suggest in your nation ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 09, 2020, 09:36:47 AM
BillyB

Newspapers in the UK ( other than the Morning Star ) are taking a political viewpoint on this crisis .. you may be confusing the feelings you suggest in your nation ..

I've heard a lot of talk about Boris recommending herd mentality from people on the internet and media but I haven't read one quote or seen a video of him claiming he's doing the herd mentality approach. If you got something, link it here otherwise it's safe to say your media puts words into his mouth like our media does to Trump.

In other news COCID-19 infecting only a fraction of people in a matter of months has become Americans leading cause of death. Anybody still think this is no more dangerous than the flu?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/coronavirus-becomes-leading-cause-of-death-in-us/ar-BB12o7aQ?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 09, 2020, 09:48:03 AM
Silly BillyB

'Trampu' manages to shoot himself in the foot with his tweets and speeches all by himself ... No media 'help' is required ... that you refuse to see it is not my problem

Re Boris :  Much as I hate Brexit and his BS that NHS and frontline carers needed protected and tested  - I haven't suggested Boris was an advocate of the Swedish approach and IF he was - he listened to good advice .

Try to keep up..


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 09, 2020, 10:05:46 AM
I haven't suggested Boris was an advocate of the Swedish approach and IF he was - he listened to good advice .


That doesn't answer my question but since you're hesitant to criticize the fake news media you love, it's apparent they are making stuff up about Boris embracing the herd immunity approach.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 09, 2020, 10:26:19 AM
That doesn't answer my question but since you're hesitant to criticize the fake news media you love, it's apparent they are making stuff up about Boris embracing the herd immunity approach.


Silly BillyB,

1/ I'm not interested in answering your daft question

2/ Other than you and The  UK's Sun getting it spot on re the Iranian mistake in shooting down the UA airliner your 'record' on spotting what is 'fake news' is not exactly 'stellar'  ...   

You've exhausted my indulgence for the needy for today ...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 09, 2020, 02:01:34 PM
No coming down the other side of the virus curve for Italy and the rest of mainland Europe:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-04-09/spain-italy-to-extend-lockdowns-amid-persistent-rise-in-cases

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8205347/amp/Italy-sees-number-new-coronavirus-deaths-rise-infections-tally-increase-4-000.html

BC continues to live in the European epicentre of the pandemic in an economy that is increasingly failing. Looks like things are only going to go from bad to worse there as it all falls apart. Meanwhile Italy's PM is now fed up with the EU and ready to quit.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on April 09, 2020, 04:48:52 PM
Dutch woman aged 107 survives coronavirus
http://news.trust.org/item/20200409105042-6t3s2
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 09, 2020, 08:59:49 PM

21 yo Canadian gives her account of the 2+ month lockdown in Wuhan and ongoing restrictions on travel even with the lockdown lifted. She wanted to take an emergency flight out of China back to Canada but they wouldn't take her cat so she decided to stay with the cat in China.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/a-21-year-old-canadian-woman-stayed-in-wuhan-because-she-didnt-want-to-abandon-her-cat-the-lockdown-just-lifted-but-shes-still-fenced-in/ar-BB12pada?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 09, 2020, 10:58:03 PM
21 yo Canadian gives her account of the 2+ month lockdown in Wuhan and ongoing restrictions on travel even with the lockdown lifted. She wanted to take an emergency flight out of China back to Canada but they wouldn't take her cat so she decided to stay with the cat in China.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/a-21-year-old-canadian-woman-stayed-in-wuhan-because-she-didnt-want-to-abandon-her-cat-the-lockdown-just-lifted-but-shes-still-fenced-in/ar-BB12pada?ocid=spartanntp

Most likely what we'll have to move to at some point in quarentining the whole population here in the west. I think Italy & Spain would most likely move to this first as their lockdowns aren't quite having the desired affect they had hoped for on the virus. That's if they don't crack first, with all the food & money shortages out there it looks like they are on the brink of full scale revolt. I hope BC is digging extra deep for the charity box, for his sake!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 09, 2020, 11:21:50 PM

BC continues to live in the European epicentre of the pandemic in an economy that is increasingly failing. Looks like things are only going to go from bad to worse there as it all falls apart. Meanwhile Italy's PM is now fed up with the EU and ready to quit.

I wasn't aware Southern Italy was an epicentre, any more than Dorset in the UK ..

The Dutch PM wasn't the only northern EU leader whose nation had been prudent putting aside 'rainy day' funding ..


Trench hasn't read the news ..

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/euro-finance-ministers-agree-500bn-package-to-address-pandemic-fallout-1.4225472 (http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/euro-finance-ministers-agree-500bn-package-to-address-pandemic-fallout-1.4225472)


Euro finance ministers agree €500bn package to address pandemic fallout
Merkel and Macron intervene to secure accord between Italy and Netherlands
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 10, 2020, 12:54:38 AM
I wasn't aware Southern Italy was an epicentre, any more than Dorset in the UK ..

The Dutch PM wasn't the only northern EU leader whose nation had been prudent putting aside 'rainy day' funding ..


Trench hasn't read the news ..

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/euro-finance-ministers-agree-500bn-package-to-address-pandemic-fallout-1.4225472 (http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/euro-finance-ministers-agree-500bn-package-to-address-pandemic-fallout-1.4225472)


Euro finance ministers agree €500bn package to address pandemic fallout
Merkel and Macron intervene to secure accord between Italy and Netherlands

I read it, pure idiocy from the EU again. Where are they going to magic this €500bn from? It's going to be a massive loan that will sink the EU for good. None of its members either jointly or between a few of them have the money to repay it especially now a big global recession is predicted.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on April 10, 2020, 01:37:21 AM
Just follow this advise

http://youtu.be/uGOZ9eN_rpA
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 10, 2020, 02:54:12 AM
Just follow this adviCe



http://youtu.be/uGOZ9eN_rpA

Trench STILL will think this doesn't apply to him...


Utterly brilliant...What an artist..
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 10, 2020, 03:34:23 AM
What Trench does not seem to understand is that everything is secondary to the virus, and that the virus picks the timeline, not us.  The rest, economy etc is in our hands and seems agreement has been made on much of it.

Instead of picking articles, he should look at the data when saying stuff like "No coming down the other side of the virus curve for Italy and the rest of mainland Europe:", so far it is simply not true.  We knew that the lockdown would be extended long ago, so no surprise there either. We can all see how much progress we are making, that the lockdown seems to be working by the numbers and that we'll just have to be patient for however long it will take.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 10, 2020, 04:41:40 AM
I read it, pure idiocy from the EU again. Where are they going to magic this €500bn from? It's going to be a massive loan that will sink the EU for good. None of its members either jointly or between a few of them have the money to repay it especially now a big global recession is predicted.

Sighs,

Where is the UK's magic money tree ?  I missed you asking THAT ?

These were EUROzone nations - The UK wasn't a member of the Euro..  nor are Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Hungary, Poland, Romania and Sweden
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 10, 2020, 06:28:49 AM
We can all see how much progress we are making, that the lockdown seems to be working by the numbers and that we'll just have to be patient for however long it will take.

How long?!?!  This disease will not disappear.  It will go from pandemic to endemic.   

Getting back to work will involve a level of risk, simply because zero risk is unattainable without a vaccine. 

Living with this disease may require a change in social attitude as well as changes in behavior.  When building America, people faced everyday the risk of smallpox, yellow fever, cholera, typhoid, polio.....They did not hide.   The government help was modest.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 10, 2020, 08:12:25 AM

There's a  96% drop in air travel.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/airlines-and-tsa-report-96percent-drop-in-air-travel/ar-BB12oRY8?ocid=spartanntp

80% of the hotel rooms are empty. Even if a vaccine comes out, it'll be awhile before life gets back to normal. Government may decide to let some of the hotel chains and airline companies go out of business. Government can't keep them afloat forever.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/about-80-of-hotel-rooms-in-the-us-are-empty-amid-the-coronavirus-pandemic-new-data-says/ar-BB12nCKC?ocid=spartanntp

A third of the people on ventilators will survive. Some that survive may not recover fully. Marathon runner tells of his experience on ventilator. He's glad he didn't get a tracheostomy like some people need.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/44-old-marathon-runner-says-064239612.html

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Nightwish on April 10, 2020, 08:46:09 AM
I do think once everything starts running again most companies (still alive that is) will bounce back quite quickly, it's a built up demand and a urge in people to start travelling again, and I have a hunch it will go off with a bang once society opens up.

Not saying it will be the best scenario, but I think that is what will happen, especially among younger people who think they are invincible
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 10, 2020, 08:53:40 AM
Currently, about 1 of 700 Americans has been infected by COVID-19.  Let's assume we go back to work, and over the next year  2 of 10 adults in your local community become infected.   Would your local hospitals be able to treat the sick? 

This question is answered for each zip code in the US:   

http://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/investigations/coronavirus-hospitals-data/?utm_campaign=wp_to_your_health&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_tyh&wpmk=1
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 10, 2020, 10:32:53 AM

Those that recover from the virus are told they can go back to work without fear since there's a belief they acquired immunity from the virus. 51 South Koreans who once had the virus now have it again.

http://news.yahoo.com/south-korea-reported-51-coronavirus-234800214.html?messageId=0f5c5d29-74aa-455b-a35c-4e04ea4f7dbd&replyId=0ad400db-12e8-4000-bdd2-1b381a9d1db5&bcmt=1&.tsrc=bell-canvass
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 10, 2020, 10:46:39 AM

Muscovites think they're New Yorkers. An estimated 10% Muscovites flee Moscow. It is legal for citizens to leave Moscow but like what happened in America, they could spread the virus quicker to other parts of the country.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/muscovites-flee-coronavirus-shutdown-bringing-172149327.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 10, 2020, 11:22:57 AM
Muscovites think they're New Yorkers. An estimated 10% Muscovites flee Moscow. It is legal for citizens to leave Moscow but like what happened in America, they could spread the virus quicker to other parts of the country.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/muscovites-flee-coronavirus-shutdown-bringing-172149327.html

..and where are they going, in Russia,  BillyB ..?

Those who know about Russia will have read than many Oblasts ( regions) have banned Moscowvites ( and folks from Piter) from entering ..

( in Russian ) http://meduza.io/feature/2020/04/09/kakie-regiony-vveli-karantin-dlya-priezzhih-iz-moskvy-i-sankt-peterburga-spisok (http://meduza.io/feature/2020/04/09/kakie-regiony-vveli-karantin-dlya-priezzhih-iz-moskvy-i-sankt-peterburga-spisok)

May be next week ... as some Oblasts - like SC's will lift many restrictions ..  WTF ?  ... 'VVP says, " the economy cannot be stopped"

We saw how well THAT worked for Japan... 

( also in Russian)
http://meduza.io/feature/2020/04/10/na-fone-rosta-chisla-zabolevshih-covid-19-rossiyskie-vlasti-razreshili-regionam-oslabit-karantin-tak-oni-hotyat-sekonomit-dengi



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 10, 2020, 11:43:10 AM
How long?!?!  This disease will not disappear.  It will go from pandemic to endemic.   

Long enough so that numbers get so low that we are able to effectively test and chase it down.  In other words what we should have been doing since the first infections.

I posted a bit back that if Italy had implemented the lockdown a week earlier, maybe we'd have half the number of infected and deaths.  I estimate 15 per million can explode and quickly go exponential.  A 'tolerable' number we could control would, of course, be much less than that.

We have the technology and means to be able to live with a relatively acceptable level of risk. Is it unreasonable for even employers to require regular testing?  Not feasible? We already do more than ten million drug tests per year in the US so what excuse do we have not to?

The more effective and efficiently we do what we can do, the quicker we can all get back to work.




Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 10, 2020, 02:01:10 PM

My younger son works at a fast food restaurant. They have less business since only the drive thru can remain open but they maintain the same amount of employees so they can qualify for the government program that pays business to keep working their employees. It's probably cheaper for the government to keep working than to have them go on unemployment with their businesses filing for bankruptcy.

I use a CPAP( continuous positive airway pressure) machine so I don't snore. My wife is a light sleeper. Got to keep her happy. I was wondering if a CPAP would help with those having a hard time breathing from COVID-19. I was surprised to find out CPAPs are actually being used in NY, China, Italy and other countries. About half the people having a hard time breathing don't need a ventilator and a CPAP is enough for them. CPAPs are also much cheaper. If any of you get COVID-19 and decide to battle it at home instead of a hospital, it would be beneficial for you to have your own CPAP.

http://aasm.org/coronavirus-covid-19-faqs-cpap-sleep-apnea-patients/

http://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/clearwater-company-donates-2500-cpap-machines-to-fight-covid-19/
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 10, 2020, 02:12:59 PM
An interesting video about how South Korea was able to manage and contain the virus:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BE-cA4UK07c (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BE-cA4UK07c)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 10, 2020, 02:18:04 PM
My younger son works at a fast food restaurant. They have less business since only the drive thru can remain open but they maintain the same amount of employees so they can qualify for the government program that pays business to keep working their employees. It's probably cheaper for the government to keep working than to have them go on unemployment with their businesses filing for bankruptcy.

I use a CPAP( continuous positive airway pressure) machine so I don't snore. My wife is a light sleeper. Got to keep her happy. I was wondering if a CPAP would help with those having a hard time breathing from COVID-19. I was surprised to find out CPAPs are actually being used in NY, China, Italy and other countries. About half the people having a hard time breathing don't need a ventilator and a CPAP is enough for them. CPAPs are also much cheaper. If any of you get COVID-19 and decide to battle it at home instead of a hospital, it would be beneficial for you to have your own CPAP.

http://aasm.org/coronavirus-covid-19-faqs-cpap-sleep-apnea-patients/

http://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/clearwater-company-donates-2500-cpap-machines-to-fight-covid-19/

If anyone is at a point of the disease where you need breathing assistance, please go to the hospital. Do not try to tough it out at home and risk your life with home remedies.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 10, 2020, 02:27:11 PM
Long enough so that numbers get so low that we are able to effectively test and chase it down.  In other words what we should have been doing since the first infections.....Is it unreasonable for even employers to require regular testing?

Yet, many people are still working today.  Otherwise our food stores would be empty.   Hospitals are receiving PPE and other supplies,  and there is talk we can soon send our surplus to nations in need.   

There are other examples of where the supply chain is functioning and for sure we do not have "regular testing."  Thus, I assert the risk of working is manageable today, or otherwise workers would be dropping like flies and a panic for stuff other than toilet paper would sweep through the land.  So why not develop a plan to transition the opening of other industries?   

Clearly businesses where customers congregate are not ready to open today, yet maybe some public health procedures could be developed to reduce risks as testing is scaled up to a "regular basis."   

The estimates are for 2-3 months of  25+ million unemployed workers.  The economy experts may say this is something we can recover from, yet how long would that recovery take, especially if 2-3 months becomes longer?  Which world do we want?   A low risk world yet the economy is suffering.    Or a working world with an endemic level of this disease killing far less of us than cancer and heart disease.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 10, 2020, 02:42:03 PM
An interesting video about how South Korea was able to manage and contain the virus:

Indeed that is how it should work, and does in other countries like Germany. Although a lot of testing has been done here, due to the great numbers of infections real tracing has not been effective.  I am confident it will be part of the program being developed during the transiting from lockdown back to a more normal life.  Part of the problem is getting all the reagents.  Italy has a huge test kit production capacity and ability to run the tests, but the reagents are still too scarce to move into more widespread testing.  Hopefully, that will change soon as well.



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 10, 2020, 03:05:28 PM
 

There are other examples of where the supply chain is functioning and for sure we do not have "regular testing."  Thus, I assert the risk of working is manageable today, or otherwise workers would be dropping like flies and a panic for stuff other than toilet paper would sweep through the land.  So why not develop a plan to transition the opening of other industries?   

Clearly businesses where customers congregate are not ready to open today, yet maybe some public health procedures could be developed to reduce risks as testing is scaled up to a "regular basis."   


Gator,

Companies like Amazon might not agree with your assessment.  Other biggies that can afford such will certainly do the same.  It not only protects the public but reduces its own risks to the workforce. 

http://www.theverge.com/2020/4/10/21216076/amazon-test-lab-covid-19-coronavirus-pandemic

Think of how many billions or even trillions were spent and are still being spent against another enemy terrorism.  We cannot do the same for a tiny virus that has killed many more and is still churning?

Groceries are obviously a necessity and grocers are to a large extent taking all kinds of precautions.  Heck, even our local pharmacy put up cough shields at the counters.  Isolation efforts have severely limited our contact to only a very limited number of people.  That is not 'business as usual'.  On a normal shopping tour in the US I would visit at least 4-5 stores, getting meat at Fresh Market, then head to Walmart, Harris Teeter, then Maybe Food Lion or Publix for a couple of items Teeter does not carry etc, maybe even hit BK or Wendy's cause seeing all that food made me hungry.  Today I would go to only one store, wait in line to get in, rush through my shopping list and head to self-checkout and home.  Not very good for the economy.

The only way to get over this is to do it right the first time, that can also prevent a rebound and be much more prepared for the next virus that comes along.  Anything less is foolhardy.

So everyone is talking about 'curve'... ok so what's next? What's the plan?



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 10, 2020, 03:08:22 PM
If anyone is at a point of the disease where you need breathing assistance, please go to the hospital. Do not try to tough it out at home and risk your life with home remedies.

Most people who get COVID-19 must battle it at home and not everybody that goes to the hospital gets a ventilator. Even if a person has mild congestion, a CPAP will open airways force the lungs to accept air and the ones with a humidifier like mine has keeps things from drying out so it's easier for the body to cough out mucus. Using a CPAP at home can help a person's COVID-19 from getting worse. There's really nothing a hospital can do that ones own home can do except provide a ventilator, IV, pain killer and experimental drugs. If a person needs those things, absolutely they should go to a hospital but there's only one known proven protection from the virus and that is the immunity system of our bodies.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 10, 2020, 03:48:39 PM
   A low risk world yet the economy is suffering.    Or a working world with an endemic level of this disease killing far less of us than cancer and heart disease.

Currently we are living in a world where the economy is suffering, there is high unemployment and COVID-19 is the #1 killer in America. In Italy, in just over a month, they had 80 doctors die, 20 nurses die, and 12,000 medical workers infected. No country can sustain those numbers in their medical community for long before things collapse in the medical industry. We have to keep the infection count down at all times to save lives and not overwhelm the medical community. It's going to cost us part of our economy to achieve this. We can try to go back to work but there will be periodic outbreaks across the country to where parts of the country will have to stay at home. Unless a vaccine is found, quarantines and stay at home orders will be a part of our lives. Someday we will be able to tell our great grandkids about the time we did a thing called "Shaking hands" and going to live music and sporting events with crowds over 10 people.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 10, 2020, 04:13:52 PM
Billy,

As physically mobile as the US population is, I believe it will be very difficult to do it on a patchwork basis.  There are 10 million Americans that are looking for jobs.  Many will have no hesitation to move elsewhere for a job.  Now think a bit about it..  We start to open up workplaces that need to be filled, maybe by folks from elsewhere.

That scenario raises the risk of rebounds enormously.

Widespread, nationwide testing is the only logical solution.  Something like 'you are locked down until you get tested'.  Some, that did have prior positive tests and then retested negative would be the first group that could be let loose, but still taking lighter precautions.  According to the charts around 25,000 in the US already have that status.  We need fairly widespread testing for those with antibodies and those that were not infected anyway to assess what the risks and consequences of rebounds are.

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on April 10, 2020, 04:33:07 PM
Most people who get COVID-19 must battle it at home and not everybody that goes to the hospital gets a ventilator. Even if a person has mild congestion, a CPAP will open airways force the lungs to accept air and the ones with a humidifier like mine has keeps things from drying out so it's easier for the body to cough out mucus. Using a CPAP at home can help a person's COVID-19 from getting worse. There's really nothing a hospital can do that ones own home can do except provide a ventilator, IV, pain killer and experimental drugs. If a person needs those things, absolutely they should go to a hospital but there's only one known proven protection from the virus and that is the immunity system of our bodies.

What happened BillyB, you lose your job and now are selling CPAP machines??? ))

There is NO protection from a virus. Not even vaccines. Viruses mutate. Vaccines need to change also.
There is a known virus that's been around for 2000 years. In the last 70 years we have had a vaccine for that virus, yet it affects yearly ~35 million people in USA with an average of 40-50 thousand deaths.

You talk about protection and immunity??
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on April 10, 2020, 04:42:01 PM
Billy,

As physically mobile as the US population is, I believe it will be very difficult to do it on a patchwork basis.  There are 10 million Americans that are looking for jobs.  Many will have no hesitation to move elsewhere for a job.  Now think a bit about it..  We start to open up workplaces that need to be filled, maybe by folks from elsewhere.

That scenario raises the risk of rebounds enormously.

Widespread, nationwide testing is the only logical solution.  Something like 'you are locked down until you get tested'.  Some, that did have prior positive tests and then retested negative would be the first group that could be let loose, but still taking lighter precautions.  According to the charts around 25,000 in the US already have that status.  We need fairly widespread testing for those with antibodies and those that were not infected anyway to assess what the risks and consequences of rebounds are.

 

BC, you bring up a thought I have had recently.
There are 3 groups most fall into:

1. Those that test negative for virus
2 Those that test negative but with antibodies of virus
3. Those that test positive for virus
Actually a fourth but they are dead

How do you separate these groups?
We have been told to take every precaution to NOT get the virus but it would seem now, it would be best to be in group 2 moving forward!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 10, 2020, 05:02:15 PM
What happened BillyB, you lose your job and now are selling CPAP machines??? ))

There is NO protection from a virus. Not even vaccines. Viruses mutate. Vaccines need to change also.
There is a known virus that's been around for 2000 years. In the last 70 years we have had a vaccine for that virus, yet it affects yearly ~35 million people in USA with an average of 40-50 thousand deaths.

You talk about protection and immunity??

If you thought I'm advocating a product to beat the virus, you are mistaken. CPAPs and ventilators aren't designed to beat the virus. They are used to prevent organ failure. If lungs fail, so can other organs starving for oxygen. When lungs don't get enough oxygen, the heart starts to franticly beat trying to pump oxygen rich blood when none is there. When your other organs starve for oxygen, they start to die. Think those climbers on Everest. At a certain elevation, their bodies don't function well and they begin to die due to lack of oxygen.

Ventilators do basically two things, provide oxygen and apply pressure into the lungs keeping airways open and making it easy for lungs to absorb oxygen. CPAPs do not provide oxygen but they do apply pressure. When I did a sleep study, I learned the most important thing about a CPAP wasn't to prevent snoring but stop the interruptions of breathing which deny oxygen to the body. By making sure all organs have an adequate supply of oxygen, you will get better sleep and live longer.

With more oxygen to organs and for the immune system, a person is more likely to survive COVID-19. If I'm ill from anything and laying in bed, I'll put the CPAP on just because it helps me breathe easier. In the below link is the make and model the VA hospital provides me for free.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Respironics-REMstar-Pro-C-Flex-System-ONE-CPAP-w-Heated-Humidifier-bag/324125025156?epid=0&hash=item4b775b6384:g:QxEAAOSwcpVeh88Y

2 Those that test negative but with antibodies of virus

We have been told to take every precaution to NOT get the virus but it would seem now, it would be best to be in group 2 moving forward!!


You mean test positive and acquire antibodies? Whether you get a cold or flu or COVID-19, your immune system will create antibodies to defeat the viruses. A person may not get ill right away after defeating the cold or flu but went the antibody count drops back down, a person can get ill again.


In other news Trump is thinking about withholding $500 million from WHO because of their poor performance.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-suggests-he-may-hold-dollar500-million-meant-for-who/ar-BB12s1T4?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 10, 2020, 05:17:59 PM
Indeed LA.

Those with antibodies should be able to go to work without too much worry of infecting someone or getting infected themselves (not proven yet if rarely reported reinfections are due to testing errors or not)

Those without antibodies that test negative should keep their current isolated/careful routine until they either get infected or vaccinated.

Those testing posiive should be isolated until they test negative.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 10, 2020, 06:40:39 PM
Sighs,

Where is the UK's magic money tree ?  I missed you asking THAT ?

These were EUROzone nations - The UK wasn't a member of the Euro..  nor are Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Hungary, Poland, Romania and Sweden

Mobe, the EU is already heavily in debt, they got there by refusing to run on a basis where they refused to run it into the red and take on any credit. They could have said 'we are a new institution and as such to be fiscally sound we will always balance the books and never take on any debt'. That would have been the financially prudent thing to do, but no they had to go off Empire building with grand plans and take no notice of how Europe would be better of long term with an organisation that does not run up significant debt and add to the problem.

Fact of the matter is they were coming to struggle to pay off the debt they had, there is no way in hell the will be able to pay off an extra €500bn debt not without huge devaluation of the Euro and a lot off peed off investors that will hence force avoid touching the EU with a very long barge pole.

Following this pandemic we will have many failed states as a result of them not being able to service their debts, the EU will be one of the, Italy will be another, probably Spain too and possibly France.

The UK may stand the ability to avoid this, our debt to GDP ratio is still quite high, but if the Chancellor doesn't saddle us down with too much expenditure and can find a way to repay the expenditure without devaluing the pound significantly then we might pull through without too much turmoil. The EU though is a goner.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 10, 2020, 08:08:13 PM
BC,

I read your rhetoric about not returning to work until "numbers get so low that we are able to effectively test and chase it down."  It  is a message that will not relieve some of the fear average Americans are now feeling.  Frankly, the message sounds just like the Democrat analysts on CNN, i. e., those people who get occasional moments on TV to explain in different ways why Trump is wrong. 

Then you post again, this time no rhetoric, and instead specific examples.     Be not shocked when I express agreement with your examples. 

It's what I am talking about in reopening businesses.  The Amazon example, the groceries example, and I venture every place that is open are taking prudent, pragmatic measures to reduce risk to its employees.  As the article described, Amazon plans to test, but not every employee and not on a regular basis (and I was uncertain about whether every Amazon facility will be testing).

To wait until regular testing and low numbers, nobody will have the money to buy shiny new cars when auto manufacturing plants  are ready to open.   Business openings should be phased in some well thought out manner, and progress to the next phase only if the data show the virus is not rebounding.   Schools could open soon, and closely monitored of course.

Sports events perhaps should not open until we have a vaccine. Miami is the hotspot in Florida, and many contend it was because of the Super Bowl as well as all the international air traffic.  Restaurants and bars likely should also be delayed, but could open before we have a vaccine.   

Trump supposedly is creating a second Task Force to deal with the economy.  The economy is taking a huge hit, and getting back to work is only one part of economic recovery.  The   Fed is certainly doing its part.

BTW, my stepson works at Publix, two days per week.  He took some time off.  They need him, and he is returning next week.     
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on April 10, 2020, 09:29:04 PM
Gator and BC,

I am impressed by the number of steps taken by the retail grocery / pharmacies, etc. to protect their employees.   Here in LA, if you go into a pharmacy, there is now a plastic blockade between yourself and the store clerk.   

But as I reflect, it seems like these store clerks, pharmacists, etc., who are exposed to many, may now be the primary carriers of the disease.   And the protection goes both ways.  The customers need the protection from the clerks who were not properly taken care of at the onset of the quarantine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 10, 2020, 10:17:50 PM

Video in the link below interviews Italians. Italian mayors think the death toll is much higher than reported. Italian newspaper used to average one page of obituaries a day. Now they average 13 pages of obituaries a day. Some Italians dying in their homes do not get counted. I suspect all nations are under reporting deaths because they can't effectively count every death and/or they want to deceive to paint a different picture of what is going on in their country.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/video/italian-newspapers-obituaries-filled-1-page-now-its-13/vi-BB12qBja?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 11, 2020, 02:34:19 AM
Billy,

Under/overcount issues can be resolve in the future giving statistically relevant figures that can be compared to reported figures.  Here in Italy for example, the local town hall keeps all the birth, death and residence location.  All this information is in the national database.  Most if not all European countries do the same. Of course, would not be as effective in other places like the US where registering your presence in your community is not mandatory.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 11, 2020, 02:53:59 AM
It's nearly 11am on a Saturday and I'm waiting for me Moobs to appear :D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 11, 2020, 02:55:42 AM
Most people who get COVID-19 must battle it at home and not everybody that goes to the hospital gets a ventilator. Even if a person has mild congestion, a CPAP will open airways force the lungs to accept air and the ones with a humidifier like mine has keeps things from drying out so it's easier for the body to cough out mucus. Using a CPAP at home can help a person's COVID-19 from getting worse. There's really nothing a hospital can do that ones own home can do except provide a ventilator, IV, pain killer and experimental drugs. If a person needs those things, absolutely they should go to a hospital but there's only one known proven protection from the virus and that is the immunity system of our bodies.

BillyB,

There is no hard and fast 'rule' as how the virus effects folks ... what you wrote above was the words of a "I 'learnt' all this recently on the net" and it shows ..

Some are asymptomatic

Some have mild symptoms

Some ( like BoJo) don't seem to shake the virus off and get put on oxygen  - they still breathe for themselves

Others, sadly, need help to breathe ( ventilator)   - only in a hospital

Others, even more sadly, do not get the chance to be treated ( in Hospital) or a ventilator doesn't help as they waited too long for treatment or just go downhill, swiftly

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 11, 2020, 02:56:53 AM
It's nearly 11am on a Saturday and I'm waiting for me Moobs to appear :D

I 'appeared' about an hour ago, but attentiveness is not your forte.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 11, 2020, 03:40:03 AM
BC,

I read your rhetoric about not returning to work until "numbers get so low that we are able to effectively test and chase it down."  It  is a message that will not relieve some of the fear average Americans are now feeling.  Frankly, the message sounds just like the Democrat analysts on CNN, i. e., those people who get occasional moments on TV to explain in different ways why Trump is wrong.

No, these are my own thoughts and not based on reporting or politics.  I do very similar assessments in my business and only applied the same process and logic. 

Quote
Then you post again, this time no rhetoric, and instead specific examples.  Be not shocked when I express agreement with your examples.

My typical method is to first think and formulate a hypothesis then go googling to look for the evidence.  Example with the Amazon link I posted, I first put myself into the shoes of a large company that has to assess several risks, of infecting customers, own workforce and future liability when things don't go as planned like lawsuits.  I then searched for examples and found the information about how Amazon plans to deal with the situation.  Sure, I'll be the first to admit I am not bias-free, but I do try to keep an open mind and have the capability of accepting that my hypothesis may not be right when doing research.

Quote
It's what I am talking about in reopening businesses.  The Amazon example, the groceries example, and I venture every place that is open are taking prudent, pragmatic measures to reduce risk to its employees.  As the article described, Amazon plans to test, but not every employee and not on a regular basis (and I was uncertain about whether every Amazon facility will be testing).

Think about the marketing value, a customer might well prefer, for example, a grocer who passes each and every article on the shelf through a UV-C light tunnel when restocking and regularly 'walks the aisle' with a UV-C lamp array to kill virus from customers picking up an article and returning it to the shelf.  May sound silly and overkill but who knows....  Added benefit costs for such could come out of the marketing budget instead.  Such can become a decent business.  Think about all those x-ray machines at airports.  Yuge business.  Put a UV-C lamp in your mudroom while you can still get them.  Many businesses will be installing them in their existing overhead fluorescent lighting systems.

IIRC the article mentioned several testing locations?  I would opt for each major warehouse location.

Quote
To wait until regular testing and low numbers, nobody will have the money to buy shiny new cars when auto manufacturing plants  are ready to open.   Business openings should be phased in some well thought out manner, and progress to the next phase only if the data show the virus is not rebounding.   Schools could open soon, and closely monitored of course.

Here, additional businesses have been cleared to re-open from 14 April to 3 May.  Still quite limited but a start with most still in the 'necessary' category, but does include a host of preliminary services that business will need to start back up again, such as electricians, auto repair, engineering offices AC and heating repair, cleaners, shirt factories (for other than work clothes which were always open) etc.  Most industrial machine-making companies, packaging material producers etc.  List attached.  Many of these were able to work during the lockdown.  Of course, other than for work and urgent needs travel is still locked down to your own city.  Stores will keep their one in one out policies, masks required etc.  Still no 'public gathering' types like restaurants, cafes.

Quote
Sports events perhaps should not open until we have a vaccine. Miami is the hotspot in Florida, and many contend it was because of the Super Bowl as well as all the international air traffic.  Restaurants and bars likely should also be delayed but could open before we have a vaccine.   

Indeed, will not be different here I think.

Quote
Trump supposedly is creating a second Task Force to deal with the economy.  The economy is taking a huge hit, and getting back to work is only one part of economic recovery.  The Fed is certainly doing its part.

I hope science will not be overruled by forces of economics and politics.  The situation in the US is especially challenging, elevating the risk of any concessions.

Quote
BTW, my stepson works at Publix, two days per week.  He took some time off.  They need him, and he is returning next week.   

I remember how often I had to scold my younger kids to put on their seat belts.  Brief him well.  Sounds though like your wife has a good grip on that aspect :)

Cheetos are a good learning tool :)   Handle some with gloves and mask then take off the gloves and mask and put back on again.  Cars are also a good transfer point.  Guess car rentals are going to be doing some really good cleaning in the future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kaXQH2es3s

p.s. I don't know if Cheetos fluoresce but he'll get the idea quickly.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 11, 2020, 03:46:31 AM
Gator and BC,

I am impressed by the number of steps taken by the retail grocery / pharmacies, etc. to protect their employees.   Here in LA, if you go into a pharmacy, there is now a plastic blockade between yourself and the store clerk.   

But as I reflect, it seems like these store clerks, pharmacists, etc., who are exposed to many, may now be the primary carriers of the disease.   And the protection goes both ways.  The customers need the protection from the clerks who were not properly taken care of at the onset of the quarantine.

Indeed, that barrier protects both ways.  Grocers here have also installed shields.  Anything we bring home gets emptied and outer packaging goes straight to the outside garbage bin.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 11, 2020, 04:41:03 AM
BC, you bring up a thought I have had recently.
There are 3 groups most fall into:

1. Those that test negative for virus
2 Those that test negative but with antibodies of virus
3. Those that test positive for virus
Actually a fourth but they are dead

How do you separate these groups?
We have been told to take every precaution to NOT get the virus but it would seem now, it would be best to be in group 2 moving forward!!
If most everybody is going to wind up getting the virus, then I suppose the timing of getting it could be important. 
A person wouldn't want to get the virus at a peak time when he may not get proper care.  That seems to be a moot point in California as the hospitals are not overwhelmed.    On the other hand, getting the virus later could be better in that more effective health care options have been experimented with from the earlier patients. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 11, 2020, 05:22:48 AM

I hope science will not be overruled by forces of economics and politics. 



It will be a decision made via the political process that balances the socioeconomic tradeoffs. 

Quote
The situation in the US is especially challenging, elevating the risk of any concessions.

Tradeoffs = concessions.  It will be inevitable.

Challenging?   Do you mean our federalism form of government?  Our style referred to by Europeans as "cowboy?"  Our diversity?  Our exaggerated political division?   Ideally, there will be a consensus, yet given our diverse perspectives, unlikely. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 11, 2020, 05:31:16 AM

Challenging?   Do you mean our federalism form of government?  Our style referred to by Europeans as "cowboy?"  Our diversity?  Our exaggerated political division?   Ideally, there will be a consensus, yet given our diverse perspectives, unlikely.

No, I mean regarding national guidelines.  If not uniform, the risk of virus rebound is considerably higher.  Think of all those cars and aeroplanes.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 11, 2020, 05:51:00 AM
I 'appeared' about an hour ago, but attentiveness is not your forte.

Ah, so our Moobs has finally put in an appearance ;D So €500bn EU repay how?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 11, 2020, 06:07:51 AM
Ah, so our Moobs has finally put in an appearance ;D So €500bn EU repay how?

Two thoughts come to mind

1/ WHAT is this thread about?

2/ why do you care about how Eurozone countries can pay back money they haven't got...worry about your own.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 11, 2020, 06:45:59 AM
2000 plus dead in the US just yesterday from the virus. The biggest number of any country at any time.   That might be the peak day.  Overall, we *The US* are leading the world in deaths from the virus, despite other countries like China and India having multiples higher population, many of which are living in poverty/squalor and more vulnerable.

Fathertime!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 11, 2020, 07:02:47 AM
Overall, we *The US* are leading the world in deaths from the virus, despite other countries like China and India having multiples higher population, many of which are living in poverty/squalor and more vulnerable.

We are and will continue to REPORT higher deaths.

And you don't know the reason why ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 11, 2020, 07:08:45 AM
We are and will continue to report higher deaths.

And you don't know the reason why ?
2 of the reasons would be:


1.  We have an obese aging society, so many are vulnerable to death
2.   We didn't make the sacrifice other countries have made so a higher death total is expected.

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 11, 2020, 07:14:04 AM

There are 3 groups most fall into:

1. Those that test negative for virus
2 Those that test negative but with antibodies of virus
3. Those that test positive for virus
Actually a fourth but they are dead

How do you separate these groups?
We have been told to take every precaution to NOT get the virus but it would seem now, it would be best to be in group 2 moving forward!!

Sadly, there are more ( and numerous ) groups

1/ Those that aren't tested ( the most numerous in the US /UK - for example - given our 'govt' lamentable policies )  'We' in the UK have ' the best tests' in the world .. but now the govt has admitted some of these tests aren't the best and failing to test but a tiny percentage of health workers who are forced to stay at home - rather than working - possibly needlessly.

2/ Those that are tested and provide an incorrect - given some of the 'tests' ( poor quality ) and admin cock ups, by staff under pressure.



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Hammer2722 on April 11, 2020, 07:29:27 AM
We are and will continue to report higher deaths.

And you don't know the reason why ?


More than likely that these other countries are not accurately reporting their infections/ deaths......
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 11, 2020, 07:30:35 AM

More than likely that these countries are not accurately reporting their infections/ deaths......

No country is.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 11, 2020, 07:58:47 AM
BillyB,

There is no hard and fast 'rule' as how the virus effects folks ... what you wrote above was the words of a "I 'learnt' all this recently on the net" and it shows ..



I self teach myself these days. I enjoy learning. Almost everything we learn, we learn from another man. It's how you put things together that make the man you are. I can do a better job teaching myself than most teachers can. I factored in China lies and studied the virus in early January and in February told the forum it's a very bad one based on the way it behaves and it's going to change the way we behave and we will have to get used to periodic lockdowns. On CPAPs, I know some people use them at home, and I provide links to show doctors use them on COVID-19 patients after ventilators. They are actually helpful for people battling any illness that gives a person congestion. It also prevents the nose from plugging up. Pertaining to the virus and most things on the internet, most of what we read is BS. If you got a good BS meter, you wouldn't dismiss good information like you almost always do and actually become more intelligent.

Some of you old timers remember Andrewfi. He participates somewhere else. He reads and thinks I haven't learned anything about the virus because I disagreed with him so he told me "Billy, go read. You don't need to be an 'expert' to read. Billy, again read stuff. Even if this disease ends up being serious, in a few months it will be gone. That's how these things work." He told me that in January. The internet has enough info on it to where someone can be an expert on things but it can also make a person stupid.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 11, 2020, 08:30:38 AM

I self teach myself these days.

Abundantly clear..  you know who to blame now..

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 11, 2020, 08:31:48 AM
Yes, Billy, you can learn a lot on the internet.  Learning does, however, require an open mind.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 11, 2020, 08:48:55 AM
Two thoughts come to mind

1/ WHAT is this thread about?

2/ why do you care about how Eurozone countries can pay back money they haven't got...worry about your own.

If you say so Mobe.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on April 11, 2020, 08:52:04 AM
If most everybody is going to wind up getting the virus, then I suppose the timing of getting it could be important. 
A person wouldn't want to get the virus at a peak time when he may not get proper care.  That seems to be a moot point in California as the hospitals are not overwhelmed.    On the other hand, getting the virus later could be better in that more effective health care options have been experimented with from the earlier patients. 

Fathertime!

I think treatment will improve with time as doctors try more techniques and medications, share knowledge, and hopefully come up with much better treatments.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on April 11, 2020, 08:57:46 AM
A couple of links for those wanting to learn more. Many of the pages have additional links at the bottom of the page.

UK NHS: http://111.nhs.uk/covid-19

US CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/cleaning-disinfection.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 11, 2020, 09:00:21 AM
I'm now kicking myself for not insisting SC came to Britain and stayed 'locked up' .. at least we have a gardens here ...

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 11, 2020, 09:17:27 AM


Trench,

Are you ( trying to )  make a 'point' ? ....

Russian regions are going to take their foot off the brake pedal and try a Japan  ( like that 'worked') - because Russia ( despite all the BS about 'stability funds) cannot afford to keep workers from working ..

That is MADNESS and Russians will think, "Great ... back to normal.. let's socialise" .. 

 I have put my wife in a more dangerous place ..I had no idea that those in control in Russia could be so STUPID


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 11, 2020, 09:20:27 AM
the Korona discipline in even the remotest parts of gopnick Russia are FAR better than USA’s even in some rural russkie village full of alkogolokie bumzhee
Russian Federation has issued masks and gloves to ALL CITIZENS...
EVERYONE MUST wear this when they go out
or get fined...
even applies to your kids...

hottest topic in Russia right now is rapid automated batch testing
the ability to run millions of tests per day...

this is necessary to create “Green Zones”
which Russia is setting up at this moment...

I have an invite to fly Gazprom’s Jet from Houston in August....
to a green zone!!!
my daughters are coming with me
they are dropping out of Rice University after this semester...
we’re going to decide if we’re going to throw our lot in with Russia, or not...
because we all know what this place is gonna look like 3 years from now and WHY it's gonna look that way...

so we wanna check out the new frontier zone that Russians are building...
for when they have to hit the "reset" button
and if it fits for us, we'll join them

paka American Running Dogs, I will be the most efficiently ruthless enemy you ever had

PS,
you lost two carriers already
one more, and Iran is gonna light up Hormuz with Raketa!!!
surpreeze!!!

Russian and Iranian planes against Saudi....
Putin makes a deal with Israel
and launches covert ops to undermine Turkey from within




Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 11, 2020, 09:43:47 AM
the Korona discipline in even the remotest parts of Russia are FAR better than USA’s even in some hopelessly gopnick rural russkie village full of alkogolokie bumzhee

'Sure' they are, Krimster ..

A gathering of taxi drivers - who will take out clients - grouped in a huddle, shaking hands as they meet for the first time that day ..  This is Krasnodarsky Krai under 'quarantine' ....

Russians don't give .... "they are invulnerable" ..


They pass around the same tripe about how drinking hot drinks and taking plenty of vitamin C will save them from the virus that we in Europe ( and I guess the US) saw..

They're saying "Vector Labs are the first to develop a virus"..


government has issued masks and gloves to ALL CITIZENS...
EVERYONE MUST wear this when they go out
or get fined...

 :ROFL:

May be in Moscow... not in Krasnodarsky Krai..  Most folks aren't wearing masks ...  they are in short supply ... and no 'order' has been made TO wear 'em..
even applies to your kids...


hottest topic in Russia right now is rapid automated batch testing
the ability to run millions of tests per day...

this is necessary to create “Green Zones”
which Russia is setting up at this moment...

I have an invite to fly Gazprom’s Jet from Houston in August....
to a green zone!!!
my daughters are coming with me
they are dropping out of Rice University after this semester...
we’re going to decide if we’re going to throw our lot in with Russia, or not...
because we all know what this place is gonna look like 3 years from now!
so we wanna check out the new frontier zone that Russians are building...
for when they have to hit the "reset" button
and if it fits for us, we'll join them

I'm sorry, matey, but I've realised that having my family there was a HUGE mistake.. given the regions are going to test out the herd immunity method ..

I took this image from a Sochi Web cam about a 1km from our apartment..morning of the 9th April 2020 c.0800 MSK ..note at the bottom of the image... 

'Sure' the message is getting through..

(http://i.imgur.com/eco2Jg1.png)


 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 11, 2020, 09:44:10 AM
Learning does, however, require an open mind.


An open mind is very important. Most people accept the first thing they read if it validates their beliefs or makes them feel good such as reading an article that bashes their least favorite politician. I dismiss most of the things I read as nonsense or not important. I can spot BS pretty quick. All the people writing articles these days are human. They have flaws and biases. Even the experts can agree on things whether it comes to climate science or how to handle the virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 11, 2020, 09:45:33 AM
I can spot BS pretty quick.

Happy Easter, BillyB

You are priceless
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 11, 2020, 09:53:43 AM
you see what you see
and I see what I see
my Russian Scope is only tuned in to one region
and that region has been TOTALLY transformed

I've gotten MAJORLY sick in Russia twice...
both times thought it was a weird flu
but because I immediately self-isolated, I didn't infect my family or coworkers...
now wondering...

I suppose at some point, I'll be tested and I'll know for sure...

deep in the bunker, I worked out the protocol to follow, if fellow bunker inmates contract the virus...
my wife would be triaged, so it becomes a harder choice to send her to the hospital compared to any of the other women I share the bunker with...
I have full hazmat and CBW decontamination protocols for taking one of them to the hospital

currently, my daughters are helping me steal manhole covers!
we're stealing steel
I discovered that an acetylene torch CAN cut through a manhole cover
but it TOTALLY eats acetylene
so gotta get more cylinders and O2 as well!!!

but now I can cut up the steel
and put it inside the car door!!!!
bullet-proof doors and back-end!!!!


and I freakin love throwing a roll of toilette paper out the car window, as I speed away
in a parking lot full of black people
watching them scramble and fight each other over it
I freakin love Trump-Land
the land of peak anti-social experiences

imagine if you had Corona infected toilette paper
what a "smallpox blanket" that would be!
it's that easy, and the global pandemic gives perfect cover to these kinds of "special ops"
GRU is freakin goin crazy now over this kinda stuff
one more carrier to go before the rockets red glare over Hormuz
I guess this will be Russia's and Iran's approach to reducing the oil glut!!!
just eliminate saudis shipping oil through Hormuz


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 11, 2020, 11:05:29 AM

You mean test positive and acquire antibodies? Whether you get a cold or flu or COVID-19, your immune system will create antibodies to defeat the viruses. A person may not get ill right away after defeating the cold or flu but went the antibody count drops back down, a person can get ill again.


This statement is incorrect.  Once the body effectively fights the virus, the antibody type used is stored in the system.  This is how vaccination/immunization works.  When the virus tries to reinfect, the immune response rapidly combats the virus with quick deployment of the correct antibody.

A person will not get sick from the same virus in the future.  However, he/she will get sick from mutated versions of the virus.  That is why people get the cold or flu every year.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 11, 2020, 11:39:21 AM

Antibodies attack bacteria and foreign objects. After they defeat them, the number of antibodies in our bodies decline over a few months back to normal. If we catch a flu virus, we will have immunity to that virus for life although antibody count declined. We will not have immunity to a new mutated flu virus.

If we catch the new coronavirus which is not related to the flu virus, it is not determined yet if we will have immunity for life. 51 people in South Korea who once had COVID-19 were released after testing negative. Later they tested positive for the same virus although they had elevated levels of antibodies in their system. We are still learning about this virus and so far it's not looking good for those who claim we'll get immunity. No vaccine, no treatment, and no immunity is very bad news.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 11, 2020, 11:58:33 AM
Trench,

Are you ( trying to )  make a 'point' ? ....

Russian regions are going to take their foot off the brake pedal and try a Japan  ( like that 'worked') - because Russia ( despite all the BS about 'stability funds) cannot afford to keep workers from working ..

That is MADNESS and Russians will think, "Great ... back to normal.. let's socialise" .. 

 I have put my wife in a more dangerous place ..I had no idea that those in control in Russia could be so STUPID

The point is that you were wrong and BillyB was right, not such a silly billy after all is he. If BillyB is right on this and BillyB was right on Brexit what is the likelihood that BillyB is right on other subjects, pretty high I would say.

You see Mobe the reason BillyB is right over you on most subjects is because there is a big IQ difference between the two of you, you obviously being the lesser. Now I know at the moment the urge to argue the toss is racing to the surface in you. Surpress this urge Mobe and try to learn a thing or two before racing to bring argument to others, you will be the better off for it ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on April 11, 2020, 01:07:23 PM
Yes, Billy, you can learn a lot on the internet.  Learning does, however, require an open mind.

Yes, and we all know, everything you read on the internet is 100% true!!

Which brings up a point. If 'Joe' and I are talking to each other, we look over to the side. I see a man standing nearby but 'Joe' doesn't see anyone.....is there a person standing nearby?
Now we talk to another person at our hotel , we tell our story. Now this 'third person' chooses to believe 'Joe', that there wasn't anyone standing nearby and writes an article about no one nearby us, there will be people believing this to be true. A microcosm of today's internet society!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on April 11, 2020, 01:11:09 PM
Antibodies attack bacteria and foreign objects.


I was with Sally yesterday. I put my foreign object inside Sally, there were no antibodies attacking!!!

And yes, it was her first time, so it REALLY was a foreign object!!!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 11, 2020, 04:31:02 PM
I did all that fake medical stuff on girls when I was a kid
surprised older dewds still do that stuff...

I honestly don’t care about sex at all anymore...
I’m just trying to get in fighting shape...
really hard buying weights online now, the demand is so high...
had to go to three different sources to get what I needed
training products are now way more advanced then from when I was younger
I also bought a nylon weight vest for night running in the forest
as well as ankle weights and a lot of other items

I have two cross-mounted knives on suspenders for easy draw
training myself for a simultaneous 2 blade attack

expect the usa will start to collapse some time next year...
will either be in Russia in a green zone
or livin in the forest behind my house in a camouflaged bunker I’m buildin this summer
I will NOT be living in my neighborhood and trying to defend my house when the rioters come
however, if I DO get around to building that silenced rifle I've always dreamed about
then I may decide to pick off a few to help out the neighborhood watch
while I'm hidin behind the trees

may build a deer blind as well
or maybe more than one
if you build them high enough off the ground
and have great camo
then they are good places to sleep the night as well!!!!
with booby traps all around
and a rope to quickly and silently get to the ground
if you need to

nothing can stop what's coming
everything will burn

the longest trend in existence is the Ascent of Man,
and it’s usually a mistake to buck any trend
the trend is your friend
But no trend rises like a straight line
That said, it seems to me this is going to be a really, really serious correction –
I suspect, the worst since the start of the Industrial Revolution...

it will happen at the end of next year
at the beginning of the 4th peak

BTW, dumb phuques, do you have ANY freakin idea yet how badly you BLEW IT???
Russian election interference, more or less will be responsible for the destruction of the USA...
you have one more carrier and one more year left...

to show you how much electing Donald Trump has cost you
here is a slide from a recent secret federal study
that projects that at the end of next year
1 out of 3 Americans will have had the virus
the death toll will be in the hundreds of thousands
economy will contract by 40%

and still the damned thing keeps marching on

currently, in texas, only about 1 in 4 will wear even a simple mask and gloves
i'm sure many, many thousands will attend church tomorrow




Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 12, 2020, 02:13:00 AM
The now starving Italians have reason to be grateful to the Mafia rather than the EU in their hour of need:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/10/mafia-distributes-food-to-italys-struggling-residents

Looks like your donations didn't go far enough BC ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 12, 2020, 03:56:47 AM
The point is that you were wrong and BillyB was right, not such a silly billy after all is he. If BillyB is right on this and BillyB was right on Brexit what is the likelihood that BillyB is right on other subjects, pretty high I would say.

You see Mobe the reason BillyB is right over you on most subjects is because there is a big IQ difference between the two of you, you obviously being the lesser. Now I know at the moment the urge to argue the toss is racing to the surface in you. Surpress this urge Mobe and try to learn a thing or two before racing to bring argument to others, you will be the better off for it ;)

I was indeed 'wrong' not to insist she came back earlier from Thailand .. but to where.. ?  CY got closed, as did FR ..she'd have been on her own in places were you get fined for not having the correct docs  / sending an sms before venturing out .. I still think RU is 'better' ... as long as SHE stays at home when the others' 'celebrate' a VERY premature end to quarantine .


In Sochi, she can walk to the shops - a few mins ... and to the beach - if allowed ... she manages to socially distance, well, there ..


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 12, 2020, 05:44:50 AM
I was indeed 'wrong' not to insist she came back earlier from Thailand .. but to where.. ?  CY got closed, as did FR ..she'd have been on her own in places were you get fined for not having the correct docs  / sending an sms before venturing out .. I still think RU is 'better' ... as long as SHE stays at home when the others' 'celebrate' a VERY premature end to quarantine .


In Sochi, she can walk to the shops - a few mins ... and to the beach - if allowed ... she manages to socially distance, well, there ..

But she could have come to the UK and stayed with you or nearby, you've said it yourself. Had you listened to BillyB she would be.

So who would be the best advice to take in future decisions? After hopefully 'learning' from this experience.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 12, 2020, 06:02:45 AM


But she could have come to the UK and stayed with you or nearby, you've said it yourself.

Inattentiveness is always an issue for you, Trench ...  and what was my Mum to do if *I* got stuck in FR or CY whilst trying to bring SC back ?

Had you listened to BillyB she would be.

Unless BillyB had a private plane out of Thailand and /or could find a flt that wasn't cancelled .. NO

 
So who would be the best advice to take in future decisions? After hopefully 'learning' from this experience.

Certainly neither you or BillyB ..

You cannot organise a successful date ...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 12, 2020, 06:04:21 AM


Those who might currently think of 'knocking' WHO will wish the UK ( and USA) listened to their mantra .. TEST, TEST, TEST ..


Germany managed it ....

Coronavirus: UK could be 'worst affected' country in Europe


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52261859 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52261859)


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 12, 2020, 07:14:46 AM
I think treatment will improve with time as doctors try more techniques and medications, share knowledge, and hopefully come up with much better treatments.
I think and hope you are right.  Hopefully the virus doesn't beat us to the punch and mutate in a way that makes it more deadly before medicine can create medications/techniques that blunt it's force on us.   

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 12, 2020, 07:17:30 AM
But she could have come to the UK and stayed with you or nearby, you've said it yourself. Had you listened to BillyB she would be.

So who would be the best advice to take in future decisions? After hopefully 'learning' from this experience.
Hey are you suggesting that good old moobers lady would be better off with BillyB by her side?   You are cruel!  Unlike you, I don't know if Billyb has hoarded enough TP for all these ladies

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 12, 2020, 07:19:12 AM

Those who might currently think of 'knocking' WHO will wish the UK ( and USA) listened to their mantra .. TEST, TEST, TEST ..


Germany managed it ....

Coronavirus: UK could be 'worst affected' country in Europe


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52261859 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52261859)
Here in the USA we have many individuals that like to blame, blame, blame, unlike other countries that take responsibility and keep their death counts lower. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 12, 2020, 07:20:18 AM

Inattentiveness is always an issue for you, Trench ...  and what was my Mum to do if *I* got stuck in FR or CY whilst trying to bring SC back ?

Unless BillyB had a private plane out of Thailand and /or could find a flt that wasn't cancelled .. NO

 
Certainly neither you or BillyB ..

You cannot organise a successful date ...

Oh dear, here we go again, back on our high horse ::)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 12, 2020, 07:48:36 AM
Oh dear, here we go again, back on our high horse ::)

No, that's a GQB 'phrase' best reserved for those living in a bubble of clueless fog ...  !  You have a had several season tickets to said club




Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 12, 2020, 08:05:19 AM

here is a slide from a recent secret federal study
that projects that at the end of next year
1 out of 3 Americans will have had the virus
the death toll will be in the hundreds of thousands

Good slide!!! 

I do not know whether it would stand up to scientific scrutiny, yet it illustrates a most important point. 

Isolating ourselves will not make the COVID-19 'disappear.'  Such will require a vaccine.

Without a vaccine  COVID-19 will become endemic, whether we mitigate or not.  It will for a short period infect and kill at a level not significantly greater than for seasonal flu.   And even those numbers of deaths will reduce naturally to much lower levels because of herd immunity and hygiene hypothesis

In other words, we need to transition to our past way of living and working, adding of course some mitigating accommodations.  Given the medical research effort underway, we will have more improved treatments for those who become infected.


Quote
economy will contract by 40%


Only if we stay hidden in our closet.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 12, 2020, 08:28:55 AM
The ONLY reason it is not killing at a greater level than some flu' outbreaks IS staying at home - to aid our health services from being swamped


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 12, 2020, 08:34:39 AM
The now starving Italians have reason to be grateful to the Mafia rather than the EU in their hour of need:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/10/mafia-distributes-food-to-italys-struggling-residents


The mafia is trying to pull a Putin. It is likely public confidence in the Italian government will be reduced after this crisis and certain organizations and nations may try to exploit the situation to gain more supporters.


Unless BillyB had a private plane out of Thailand and /or could find a flt that wasn't cancelled .. NO

 


We discussed Trump's January travel ban. You said SC was safe in Thailand as the ban and virus wasn't there. Travel getting banned and borders closing worldwide didn't happen in a day. You watched these events unfold over time and waited too long to take action yet you feel qualified to criticize World leaders who took action before you. You snooze, you lose.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 12, 2020, 08:45:42 AM

We discussed Trump's January travel ban. You said SC was safe in Thailand as the ban and virus wasn't there.

FIBBER


1/ The day SC went Thailand, it was only second to China in deaths .. ( it was either 14 or 17 )   She was to be there during the Chinese New Year .....  IF you bothered to check ... I re-booked her out of the condo she stayed i last year and moved her to her own self-contained bungalow..


2/ She was booked to come back earlier than she did, the flights were cancelled ...

3/ She was never ill .. but of course she may have been infected and be asymptomatic  ..

Travel getting banned and borders closing worldwide didn't happen in a day. You watched these events unfold over time and waited too long to take action yet you feel qualified to criticize World leaders who took action before you. You snooze, you lose.

Again, NO ... 

1/ SC had flts booked..she was safe were she was .. 

2/ I criticised 'Trampu' for banning flts from the EU and OMITTING the UK / IRL... Your inattentiveness is legendary


 

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 12, 2020, 12:19:00 PM
I’m happy to learn Boris Johnson reportedly recovered from his condition and are progressing favorably.  Timely ‘resurrection’ for this Easter Day!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 12, 2020, 12:36:00 PM
Gifts from Turkey to the UK !

(http://i2-prod.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/incoming/article4041080.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/0_12-04-2020A400MAirbus_02.jpg)


A400M lands at Brize Norton [ an air base near me and not far from RAF Fairford which is used by US B-52's and B1's]

 with vital PPE donated by Turkey with poetic message of hope

http://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/gloucester-news/gallery/a400m-lands-brize-norton-vital-4041065
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 12, 2020, 02:22:12 PM
the next GRU target is the USS CARL VINSON
after that, Iran has the “go-ahead” from Russia
Russia will transfer hundreds of Russian aircraft
and missiles

Russia has given Iran nuclear technology to make their own light weight low yield nuke
to go in the new locally made silkworm missiles with over 500 km range...
Iranian boats coming in close to Saudi coast line could even hit the capital with one of these!!

GRU is attacking the USA on multiple fronts

1. general covid disinformation
2. promote virus is a hoax/back to work memes
3. promote class struggle memes: the rich get richer, while the poor die of covid
4. infect key usa military assets with covert ops under guise of natural infection


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 12, 2020, 03:08:09 PM
the next GRU target is the USS CARL VINSON
after that, Iran has the “go-ahead” from Russia
Russia will transfer hundreds of Russian aircraft
and missiles

Russia has given Iran nuclear technology to make their own light weight low yield nuke
to go in the new locally made silkworm missiles with over 500 km range...
Iranian boats coming in close to Saudi coast line could even hit the capital with one of these!!

GRU is attacking the USA on multiple fronts

1. general covid disinformation
2. promote virus is a hoax/back to work memes
3. promote class struggle memes: the rich get richer, while the poor die of covid
4. infect key usa military assets with covert ops under guise of natural infection

Now is the time to act!

We need to attack Iran while they are distracted and weak with Coronavirus. Pummel them with all the arsenal we have at our disposal, then invade and take out this evil vile regime.

At the same time the UK should terminate it's trade deal negotiations with the EU and declare a trade embargo on all EU goods. Bring down the EU early so we can trade with nations in Europe under our own terms.

Finally, the UK needs to aid Ukraine and send in British tanks to destroy Russian forces in eastern Ukraine. Hammer them hard and give them no let up.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 12, 2020, 05:40:05 PM
Look, Billyb was right again! 
It appears this virus doesn't some lasting harm that may weaken the body for the next time it strikes in a slightly different form.  So survive the first wave only to get taken out in the 2nd or 3rd wave.  Just spectacular!

Coronavirus infection may cause lasting damage throughout the body, doctors fear

For a world grappling with the new coronavirus, it’s becoming increasingly clear that even when the pandemic is over, it won't really be over.

Now doctors are beginning to worry that for patients who have survived COVID-19, the same may be true.

For the sickest patients, infection with the new coronavirus is proving to be a full-body assault, causing damage well beyond the lungs. And even after patients who become severely ill have recovered and cleared the virus, physicians have begun seeing evidence of the infection's lingering effects.....


  http://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-infection-may-cause-lasting-220307511.html   (http://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-infection-may-cause-lasting-220307511.html)
Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 13, 2020, 08:29:17 AM
Yeah, think we're going to have to see how this virus pans out. The article says that even those with mild symptoms can have long lasting perhaps permanent damage to their organs, so not just lungs either. That's bad news and means it would be good to avoid it. It looks like we are still in early days with it but even still presently in the UK it is killing around 1000 a day with over 11000 deaths already. Most of that will be in London.

So essentially we are following the same path as Italy, etc. Spain has today announced that it will be easing up on its lockdown allowing construction & factories to reopen with social distancing. That those is really becoming essential as their economy begins to collapse. Numbers of deaths & infections out there might be falling but ordinarily it would be too early to ease up on restrictions.

The degree to which this virus can reinfect is still a little uncertain. We know from China it has in a few cases but that's about it. We know it can mutate and has been but last we heard of that a few weeks ago the mutations were little and similar.

I've no doubt this virus thing will be knocking on a while and society will just have to reorganize the way it does things.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 13, 2020, 08:47:40 AM
Look, Billyb was right again! 


Oh yeah ?

You mean that if we have a dose of the flu', our immune systems aren't more open to other infections ... that's normal .. 

It appears this virus doesn't some lasting harm that may weaken the body for the next time it strikes in a slightly different form.  So survive the first wave only to get taken out in the 2nd or 3rd wave.  Just spectacular!

'It appears', 'apparently', 'it is reported' ....  in this modern era of 'Chinese Whispers' and BillyB - type 'news' should - in most cases - be treated in the same fashion as if the hospital Janitor is offering to do you a free frontal lobotomy in the wee small hours ...

It's simply too early to be certain ...

By now, we all may know folks that have had this virus ... I do ... Belarus lady ( aged sl. under 60), UK Hubbie, ( mid 70's and obese)  her (UK) step-son, late 30's....live under one roof and she is a carer for elderly folk ....   SHE got 'it' first, then hubbie, then her step-son ...

All seemingly recovered  - hubbie still weakened ... t'other fully recovered...  It's certainly no representative study  .. Certainly, will let you know if they feel any lasting effects .






Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 13, 2020, 08:58:32 AM
FT, I learned some things about the original SARS virus months ago to get an idea what SARS COV-2 virus may do. There could be lasting physical and mental damage. If you guys know young people who do not care, you may want to share the info from FT's Yahoo article talking about the study showing those who survived mild and severe disease, researchers found that many of the biological measures had “failed to return to normal.”  If you are a person that thinks getting the virus and be done with it is the smart thing to do, think twice. It's possible this virus can cause lasting damage to various organs. Damaged organs will impact quality of life and shorten life expectancy.

Here's info from the original SARS coronavirus. Physical and mental damage can last for years. The SARS related medical problems have become an additional burden on  medical communities it affected for a long after people survive the virus. The additional medical costs will be taxing on the economy for a long time. We can't afford to let every person in the world get SARS COV-2. Fortunately SARS didn't infect as many people as this virus and it was pretty much stopped in 2 years although a vaccine or treatment was never found for it. Going for herd immunity letting this new virus run its course is not smart.

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1203389/ten-years-mental-and-physical-scars-sars

http://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2003/05/11/sars-survivors-may-face-lasting-lung-injury/0e6ba9ed-599f-4490-9d8a-901db1f369e8/


A 2-year study of a selected population of SARS survivors, showed significant impairment of DL(CO), exercise capacity and health status persisted, with a more marked adverse impact among HCW. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20337995


ER nurse in New Orleans used to see 1 person die per month. Now he sees 9 people die per month. COVID-19 will easily by far become the #1 killer of a population in areas where there is an epidemic. A few areas of America have experienced outbreaks. For a brief time, those few areas have caused 2000 Americans to die each day. At that pace 730,000 Americans would die in a year and with a outbreaks in just a few areas of America at any given time would make COVID-19 #1 killer in all America. To keep deaths down, all nations will have to sacrifice jobs, education, and economies.

http://news.yahoo.com/er-nurse-orleans-growing-coronavirus-093000174.html

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on April 13, 2020, 10:23:16 AM
A lighter take on covid-19 here:

http://xkcd.com/2287/
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 13, 2020, 04:34:12 PM
Hhhmmm....Russia already tested 1,300,000?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 13, 2020, 05:40:53 PM
Hhhmmm....Russia already tested 1,300,000?

It's a rough estimate they rounded up from 300,000 ;) Russia has a large population and only 148 dead. Putin is doing a great job.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 14, 2020, 02:16:03 AM
Looking all over for the EU in Italy:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/1268467/eu-news-Italy-eu-membership-euroscepticism-poll-italiexit-latest/amp

How are things shaping up for you there BC?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 14, 2020, 03:04:50 AM
Trench this is the third time you ar trying to bait. Don't be such an asshole.

We're doing fine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 14, 2020, 04:26:28 AM
Trench this is the third time you ar trying to bait. Don't be such an asshole.

We're doing fine.

I was merely enquiring after your good health and I find this is how you think of me :o

Just me being my considerate self is all :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 14, 2020, 04:50:37 AM
I was merely enquiring after your good health and I find this is how you think of me :o

Just me being my considerate self is all :)

Just Trench demonstrating sociopath mode ... :popcorn:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 14, 2020, 09:52:31 AM
Trench,

You seem to actually take joy in the suffering of others.  You gleefully cheer for the collapse of other society.
 You actively hope for an increase in self worth not through self improvement but through the downfall of everyone else.

Stop being a f**k up.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 14, 2020, 11:53:49 AM

Chris Cuomo has  battled COVID-19 for two weeks and it's not over. Earlier he said he lost 13 lbs in 3 days. Now he's suffering from psychological symptoms. Dr. Sanjay Gupta said it’s causing depression, brain fog and edginess in patients who have the coronavirus infection.

http://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/chris-cuomo-coronavirus-brain-050430835.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 14, 2020, 01:01:27 PM
Trench,

You seem to actually take joy in the suffering of others.  You gleefully cheer for the collapse of other society.
 You actively hope for an increase in self worth not through self improvement but through the downfall of everyone else.

Stop being a f**k up.

Not at all, I've never stated that I favour said event, other than on the EU of course. I am merely stating quite possible events ahead of them happening based on the evidence around me. Most of them do happen and so I feel the only decent thing to do is to let said person know in advance what might be on the cards.

For example if I hadn't highlighted the foolishness of your idea to go out to Ukraine to visit your other half you might have well have done it and ended up in a pretty bad situation. So you see you might indeed have a lot to me and my input here to be thankful for :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 14, 2020, 01:09:43 PM
Chris Cuomo has  battled COVID-19 for two weeks and it's not over. Earlier he said he lost 13 lbs in 3 days. Now he's suffering from psychological symptoms. Dr. Sanjay Gupta said it’s causing depression, brain fog and edginess in patients who have the coronavirus infection.

http://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/chris-cuomo-coronavirus-brain-050430835.html

If you objectively read the article from Chris himself, his 'frustration' is borne more because of a) being isolated/quarantined in a room for weeks now, and b) the persistent 'fever'.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 14, 2020, 02:07:55 PM
If you objectively read the article from Chris himself, his 'frustration' is borne more because of a) being isolated/quarantined in a room for weeks now, and b) the persistent 'fever'.


In time, we will learn if he and others with COVID-19 have long term problems with their nervous systems and brains. There may be huge costs involved if people need counseling for mental issues.

From the article below:

It is now known that coronaviruses can invade the central nervous system and cause damage to nerve cells in the brain.

one study found that almost half of patients with severe respiratory symptoms from COVID-19 also had neurological symptoms, including stroke, brain hemorrhage, and impaired consciousness.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-superhuman-mind/202003/what-does-coronavirus-do-the-brain
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 14, 2020, 02:13:13 PM
In time, we will learn if he and others with COVID-19 have long term problems with their nervous systems and brains. There may be huge costs involved if people need counseling for mental issues.

From the article below:

It is now known that coronaviruses can invade the central nervous system and cause damage to nerve cells in the brain.

one study found that almost half of patients with severe respiratory symptoms from COVID-19 also had neurological symptoms, including stroke, brain hemorrhage, and impaired consciousness.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-superhuman-mind/202003/what-does-coronavirus-do-the-brain

IMO Chris Cuomo has needed psychological counseling for a very long time prior to his case of covid
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 14, 2020, 02:39:56 PM
In time, we will learn if he and others with COVID-19 have long term problems with their nervous systems and brains. There may be huge costs involved if people need counseling for mental issues.

No wonder CNN is financially challenged these days. Also, Tom Hanks supposedly just hosted SNL, so that could be a clear sign damages to the brain is worse than previously studied.

Quote
From the article below:

It is now known that coronaviruses can invade the central nervous system and cause damage to nerve cells in the brain.

one study found that almost half of patients with severe respiratory symptoms from COVID-19 also had neurological symptoms, including stroke, brain hemorrhage, and impaired consciousness.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-superhuman-mind/202003/what-does-coronavirus-do-the-brain

It could well be true since COVID mainly attacked the blue states since its inhabitants possess fragile/weak brain cells. Except notable areas of SoCal, that is...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on April 14, 2020, 03:01:50 PM

It could well be true since COVID mainly attacked the blue states since its inhabitants possess fragile/weak brain cells. Except notable areas of SoCal, that is...


You are on to something there. COVID only thrives in those that the brain is functioning at more than 40%.

Happy to not be in one of those red states!!! )))
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 14, 2020, 03:12:28 PM
Proof Trump plans to collude with Russia in the midst of the current pandemic. Democrats will likely rush to pile up evidence to finally trounced Trump.

http://www.oann.com/u-s-to-send-russia-equipment-to-combat-covid-19/
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 14, 2020, 03:34:35 PM

Washington State doctor thinks he didn't wear his PPE properly and got infected. Nearly died, not from COVID-19 but by his own immune system. Doctors gave him experimental drugs and high dosages of Vitamin C which probably helped him pull out of his coma and onto recovery.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/emergency-room-doctor-near-death-with-coronavirus-saved-with-experimental-treatment/ar-BB12CdXL?ocid=spartanntp

Something is really wrong with Chris Cuomo's brain. He's not caring about his CNN show anymore.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/chris-cuomo-cnn-show-not-160116157.html

We have altered our behavior and we have altered the behavior of other animals that depend on us. Rats are starting to eat each other.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/newsfeature/starving-angry-and-cannibalistic-americas-rats-are-getting-desperate-amid-coronavirus-pandemic/ar-BB12ArzM?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 14, 2020, 04:26:17 PM

Some people are still underestimating this virus.

Right now worldwide we have 1,991,810 people infected by the coronavirus. Let's say half the people infected hasn't be counted so we actually have 4 million people on earth infected right now. Many nations under report deaths and most of those people currently infected haven't even finished their battle with the virus but let's assume everybody survives and  the true death toll worldwide is currently at 126,019 dead. 7.8 billion people divided by 4 million infected is 1950. One out of every 1950 people on earth has been infected. If everybody got infected we multiple 126,019 dead by 1950 to get a worldwide death toll of 246 million people. That would definitely overwhelm hospitals and a reason we need to limit this virus's damage over many years. Although 246 million may be dead, there will be many more alive that need expensive long term medical care which can crush economies. Another reason we need to desperately slow the spread. My calculations is based on each person on earth fighting this virus once in their lifetime. I hope we don't have to fight this virus numerous times throughout our lives.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 14, 2020, 05:18:04 PM
Nearly died, not from COVID-19 but by his own immune system.

This is how COVID-19 deaths occur.  One component of the body's immune system becomes hyperactive, producing a runaway "cytokine storm" in the lungs, resulting in inflammation inhibiting the O2 - CO2 exchange, or blood clotting throughout the body, etc.   

Dilemma - How to stop the antagonistic response of the immune system and allow the beneficial biochemical functions?  The various vaccines and therapeutics under study go about this in different ways.       
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 14, 2020, 05:25:57 PM
Some people are still underestimating this virus.

Right now worldwide we have 1,991,810 people infected by the coronavirus. Let's say half the people infected hasn't be counted so we actually have 4 million people on earth infected right now. Many nations under report deaths and most of those people currently infected haven't even finished their battle with the virus but let's assume everybody survives and  the true death toll worldwide is currently at 126,019 dead. 7.8 billion people divided by 4 million infected is 1950. One out of every 1950 people on earth has been infected. If everybody got infected we multiple 126,019 dead by 1950 to get a worldwide death toll of 246 million people. That would definitely overwhelm hospitals and a reason we need to limit this virus's damage over many years. Although 246 million may be dead, there will be many more alive that need expensive long term medical care which can crush economies. Another reason we need to desperately slow the spread. My calculations is based on each person on earth fighting this virus once in their lifetime. I hope we don't have to fight this virus numerous times throughout our lives.

Not quite BillyB.

Even in your exercise of 4 million infected, you need to factor in the hospitalization rate. Not all the infected cases are hospitalized. I believe the *average* rate of hospitalization is between 15-20%. So your number would be between 600,000 - 800,000. Now get the number of countries where the infections are ( worldometer said 210 countries), that means an average of 2,900 - 3,800+/- hospitalization for each country. Not serious at all..

Your seasonal flu is far worse, man. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 14, 2020, 05:50:22 PM
Dilemma - How to stop the antagonistic response of the immune system and allow the beneficial biochemical functions?  The various vaccines and therapeutics under study go about this in different ways.
   

I think in the end, we are going to learn Trump's miracle drug, Hydroxychloroquine is ineffective against the virus. The drug is used by people who have lupus, a disease where people's immune system attacks flesh and organs. If a doctor gave Hydroxychloroquine to a person who had a mild case of COVID-19, it may actually restrain that person's immune system giving the virus a better chance to win. So the drug and combo drugs should be reserved for the worst cases where a person's immune system is on overdrive. In the end, it's possible we will see Trump's miracle drug approved but with restrictions that are going to disappoint most people looking for a treatment 100% of the people can benefit from.


Even in your exercise of 4 million infected, you need to factor in the hospitalization rate.


Most people infected do not get hospitalized. I'm just counting all infections, hospitalized or sitting at home or quarantined in a motel. They are all included. I doubled the number assuming some people walk around without symptoms and haven't been tested.

Assume 4 million people are infected and they will all survive and with the registered 126,000 dead, that is a 3.17% case fatality rate. multiply that by 7.8 billion and you got 247 million dead.

Things seem to move slow but look at the past to predict the future. From December to March 21, the world had 13,000 deaths. Three weeks later, even with the action we've taken to slow things down, we have ten times the amount of deaths right now. Guess what would happen exponentially 3 weeks from now if we didn't take drastic action. Without action, every three weeks will see exponential growth. We do not want to treat this virus like the flu.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 14, 2020, 06:05:49 PM
In the link below show's a graph and COVID-19 killing just under 2000 Americans a day makes it our number #1 killer. Flus + pneumonia kills 153 Americans a day. Accidents kill 466 Americans a day. There's only a few hotspots in America that have raised the entire death rate of COVID-19 in America to #1. Most of America is fine and I hope it stays that way. Hospitals can handle all those other diseases and physical injuries in their community but a community facing a COVID-19 outbreak will overwhelm them. We can't go back to a normal life with a healthy economy if we want to keep the numbers down.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8208015/Coronavirus-leading-cause-death-America-doctor-says.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 14, 2020, 07:06:37 PM
... COVID-19 killing just under 2000 Americans a day makes it our number #1 killer.

Billy,  the repeated patterns of your posts suggest you are becoming hyper about this disease, even repeating yourself.   

Each day more and more data are collected and analyzed, and the conclusion is always the same - actual statistics are less dire than predicted.  Its getting better.       
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 14, 2020, 08:51:28 PM
In the link below show's a graph and COVID-19 killing just under 2000 Americans a day makes it our number #1
I'm not seeing the just under 2000 a day number, perhaps I'm not looking in the right place.  Looked like 1253 died on the latest day.  Nevertheless, it seems like a lot, although several people here think it isn't much greater than flu deaths.   

Something still just isn't right though.  Why shut everything down if indeed the Coronavirus isn't THAT much worse than the flu like some here are saying or implying?  As much as I don't like it, I'm not sure there is that much that can be done ultimately except to let the strong survive.  If the virus doesn't run it's course I don't think the people of the world are going to be able to isolate it into extinction, if that is even possible. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 14, 2020, 09:24:51 PM
Its getting better.   
 

2407 Americans just died yesterday which is our worst day topping the previous worst day by 400 deaths. That is a 20% increase. As NY gets better, other parts of America will flare up so we can't expect the deaths to dramatically drop anytime soon just because NY is showing improvement. Changing our behavior will reduce deaths but by how much? There will always be a daily death toll. Question is how many hundreds dead a day can we accept and still run the economy at a decent pace?

Each day more and more data are collected and analyzed, and the conclusion is always the same - actual statistics are less dire than predicted. 


It's the government's job to predict good news. Last week they dropped their prediction to 60,000 Americans dead. There's 26,000 Americans dead right now. There's 261 days left in the year. To stay below the 60,000 day mark, we need to limit the dead to 130 a day average. To achieve that low of a death count may require a steady 15% unemployment rate and some of the work we do will be inefficiently done at home. We're learning what works and doesn't work. After the first States open up on a limited scale, we'll see how long they can go before having to close things again.


I'm not seeing the just under 2000 a day number, perhaps I'm not looking in the right place. 


Under the first video is the chart a Doctor created. The top line is in red with COVID-19 having 1940 deaths. You may have to put on your reading glasses to magnify the tiny words and numbers.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 14, 2020, 09:35:56 PM


It's the government's job to predict good news.

No.. it's the govt's job to protect it's citizens, first ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 14, 2020, 09:48:57 PM
No.. it's the govt's job to protect it's citizens, first ..


Telling citizens bad news that leads depression, suicides, and panic which leads people hurting each other over the last bit of food and toilet paper is protecting the citizens? All government needs to tell people is to stay home, we'll pay you some money, we're working on a vaccine, things are looking better everyday, and in the end everything is going to be alright.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 14, 2020, 10:15:26 PM
Telling citizens bad news that leads depression, suicides, and panic which leads people hurting each other over the last bit of food and toilet paper is protecting the citizens? All government needs to tell people is to stay home, we'll pay you some money, we're working on a vaccine, things are looking better everyday, and in the end everything is going to be alright.

My sentence covered protecting citizens... it was simple and to the point..

Telling citizens 'good news' when it's BS will result in mistrust
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 14, 2020, 10:43:35 PM
Most people infected do not get hospitalized. I'm just counting all infections, hospitalized or sitting at home or quarantined in a motel. They are all included. I doubled the number assuming some people walk around without symptoms and haven't been tested.

Assume 4 million people are infected and they will all survive and with the registered 126,000 dead, that is a 3.17% case fatality rate. multiply that by 7.8 billion and you got 247 million dead.

We went through this exercise before BillyB. It was as futile then as it is now apparently. You went through your equation with a hypothetical baseline. You shake and bake that cookie, all you’ll really have is speculation. We’re you trying to arrive to anything else than idle speculation?

Quote
Things seem to move slow but look at the past to predict the future. From December to March 21, the world had 13,000 deaths. Three weeks later, even with the action we've taken to slow things down, we have ten times the amount of deaths right now. Guess what would happen exponentially 3 weeks from now if we didn't take drastic action. Without action, every three weeks will see exponential growth. We do not want to treat this virus like the flu.

It doesn’t work like that. You took the high average in a few days then extrapolate it to an entire period since inception, and, again, stretch it out to a hypothetical projection. We’re you the one doing all those gross estimated modeling coming from Washington the good folks from the task force were scaring the bejesus out of all of us all these time?

If you’re trying to established a sound baseline to try and get a good rate and show how deadly something is, you need to create a datum, e.g. per xxx. 100,000, /million, etc. to get a better rate of whatever you’re trying to achieve.

But, if you only want to say 3.17% dies of COVID from the infected total, then that number is hardly frightening. It means the survival rate is 96.83%. Especially if you factor in comorbidity in that equation. In essence you’re saying the vast majority of healthy folks recovers and survive. If a person’s obesity, heart disease, diabetes, black lungs (smoking) doesn’t kill him/her, COVID may help. Make sense?

Billy, we have annual vaccine for influenza, yet tens of thousands of us still die of it every year. Think about that.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 14, 2020, 11:00:14 PM
Each day more and more data are collected and analyzed, and the conclusion is always the same - actual statistics are less dire than predicted.  Its getting better.     

Although less dire (so far) than predicted, they are much worse than they could have been.  I estimate casualties could have been halved if Italy had implemented the national lockdown a week to 10 days earlier than they did.

We do not know if and how many rebounds and flareups await.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 14, 2020, 11:06:17 PM
Telling citizens 'good news' when it's BS will result in mistrust

Mistrust is the least destructive.  Complacency, on the other hand, is a killer.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 14, 2020, 11:15:48 PM
Billy, we have annual vaccine for influenza, yet tens of thousands of us still die of it every year. Think about that.


That's acceptable. We don't have to stop living because of the flu kill a few hundred people a day average. Even if we didn't have a vaccine from the flu, the deaths wouldn't be much higher. Less than half of Americans get a vaccine shot. It's not required. Most Americans go without protection from the flu every year. The vaccine doesn't always work because lab scientists sometimes predict wrong which strain will come out. I was at a private pharmacy last year to get my free flu vaccine the VA allows. They ran out of the VA approved vaccine and wasn't allowed to give me the other vaccine that an organization approved. There are different vaccines for flus because it's all based on predictions on how the virus will mutate and not all medical scientists agree and they will create different vaccines. So if a person gets a vaccine, they can still get the flu.

http://thenationshealth.aphapublications.org/content/47/9/E45

March 14th America had 57 deaths from COVID-19 and people said it was no more dangerous than the flu. Fair enough. They can point at the data and have a point. April 14th, in one month, we now have 26,064 deaths and that is with action taken against the virus. There shouldn't be any more claims this virus is not much worse than the flu. We should be past that point.

We went through this exercise before BillyB. It was as futile then as it is now apparently.


Yes, every time someone underestimates the virus and can't figure out why all governments are taking action against it sacrificing their economies, I will remind them why. It'll be like a broken record.

I estimate casualties could have been halved if Italy had implemented the national lockdown a week to 10 days earlier than they did.


I wouldn't say it would be that bad. If we look at the charts, curves that are high will fall quicker. Flattening the curve makes it shorter but it also makes it wider. Flattening the curves pretty much stretches the number of infections and deaths over a longer period of time which helps prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. Italy got a big chunk of its population infected and if we have an immunity to the virus, the end result won't be so bad. Immunity has yet to be determine though. Without a vaccine, it's likely we are all going to get it at some point of our lives. By hiding and working from our homes, will make it more difficult for the virus to find us but it's just a matter of time and other nations will catch up to Italy eventually.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 14, 2020, 11:19:42 PM
Each day more and more data are collected and analyzed, and the conclusion is always the same - actual statistics are less dire than predicted.  Its getting better.     

California’s 2019 population is 39.5 million. To date, 860 died of COVID.
New York’s 2019 population is 19.45 million. To date, 8,600 died of COVID.
USA 2019 population is 328.2 million. To date, 29,580 died of COVID.

For BillyB: Washington’s 2019 population is 7.62 million. To date, 494 died of COVID.

Seriously, go back to work America.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 14, 2020, 11:32:34 PM
If you’re trying to established a sound baseline to try and get a good rate and show how deadly something is, you need to create a datum, e.g. per xxx. 100,000, /million, etc. to get a better rate of whatever you’re trying to achieve.

Billy, we have annual vaccine for influenza, yet tens of thousands of us still die of it every year. Think about that.

'Rule of thumb' seems to be that out of 100 infected, 20 will be hit bad enough to be hospitalized, with 2-3% of those that are hospitalized die. 

Problem is that we've found no one that is immune to catching this bug.  As far as we know it will infect everyone unlike influenza where many are immunized and others carry some immunity from prior bouts, minor to severe.  Everyone does not get the flu every year and the infection rate is much lower than covid.

so max might look like 330 million, 66 million ending up in hospitals and 1.6+ million dead.. oops much higher as the hospitals would never be able to keep up with that amount of people.  This not counting for repeats as we do not yet know how long antibodies remain effective.

Nothing to sneeze at.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 14, 2020, 11:42:09 PM
I wouldn't say it would be that bad. If we look at the charts, curves that are high will fall quicker. Flattening the curve makes it shorter but it also makes it wider.

It seems to be much more akin to a nuclear reaction.  Leave the control rods in and there will be some activity, but pull out the control rods and it gets hot very quickly, or worse explodes.

There seems to be a 'critical mass' with the virus as well.  Once it reaches 15 per million or so (my guess) chances are it is going to explode on you.

Lockdowns and social distancing are our only control rods at the moment.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 15, 2020, 01:39:55 AM
Some good news today, Trump is cutting off funding the WHO :D

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52289056

Basically due to all the bs they have been telling everybody and getting it wrong then making out they know and the general public don't when in fact it was the other way around. Like the bs figures it was giving out at the start of the number of deaths to those that became infected but not those that seen it through and recovered. I find a lot of these official bodies like the WHO get very arrogant in themselves and think their superior to all else. Hopefully this should take them down a peg or two from their lofty perch.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 15, 2020, 01:49:48 AM
Yet the UK does not and will likely give more in the future
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 15, 2020, 04:50:57 AM
Yet the UK does not and will likely give more in the future

Yes unfortunately countries love kissing up to these 'official bodies'. I really wish they wouldn't they get so full of themselves.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 15, 2020, 05:04:16 AM
Trench, JUST like ave UK's SUN  reader...  You have the reading comprehension  of a 9 year old.

WHO are apolitical....They get info from govts and must assume it is accurate.

They asked nations to test, test and test and the UK / US didn't bother...



Germany did..


Shooting the messenger ....'Real smart..

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 15, 2020, 06:00:25 AM
Trench, JUST like ave UK's SUN  reader...  You have the reading comprehension  of a 9 year old.

WHO are apolitical....They get info from govts and must assume it is accurate.

They asked nations to test, test and test and the UK / US didn't bother...



Germany did..


Shooting the messenger ....'Real smart..

How's it going there Mobe? What's it like being confined to quarters? I imagine you must be getting cabin fever by now?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 15, 2020, 06:29:13 AM
Although less dire (so far) than predicted, they are much worse than they could have been.  I estimate casualties could have been halved if Italy had implemented the national lockdown a week to 10 days earlier than they did.


Or China had locked Wuhan down earlier...or Trump had implemented the China travel ban earlier....or the CDC testing constraints been addressed earlier....

We cannot turn the clock back

But we need to look to the future...all aspects of the future
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 15, 2020, 06:38:34 AM
Or China had locked Wuhan down earlier...or Trump had implemented the China travel ban earlier....or the CDC testing constraints been addressed earlier....

We cannot turn the clock back

But we need to look to the future...all aspects of the future
Yes, so blaming China has been ridiculous and an effort to deflect for political advantage.   Virus will leave earth when there are no longer hosts for them. 

Once that first person had this particular virus, and spread it to 10 others (Some of whom traveled) our fate was sealed.  Whether it takes days/weeks/months, the inevitability of the virus being everywhere (Even the remote Falkland Islands) was assured.     Among the priorities nowadays it is about flattening the curve, better treatments, and protecting the critical health care workers. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 15, 2020, 06:43:30 AM

We cannot turn the clock back

But we need to look to the future...all aspects of the future

Sure, but first things first - testing.  It is what bit us in the past, is still biting us now, and will bite us in the future.

I remember 'everyone will be able to get one' and that is within the realm of possibility.  Just have to put our mind to it along with the war powers act to get it done.

Isn't it time to start addressing the root cause instead of the after-effect?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 15, 2020, 06:48:42 AM
Sure, but first things first - testing.  It is what bit us in the past, is still biting us now, and will bite us in the future.

I remember 'everyone will be able to get one' and that is within the realm of possibility.  Just have to put our mind to it along with the war powers act to get it done.

Isn't it time to start addressing the root cause instead of the after-effect?
My own opinion on testing is it will be a little bit like whack a mole.  The virus is loose and it now will have to run it's course.  I hope you are more right then me on this one, because your hope for testing is less foreboding then what I think is reality. 

Fathertime!   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 15, 2020, 06:54:29 AM

I remember 'everyone will be able to get one' and that is within the realm of possibility.  Just have to put our mind to it along with the war powers act to get it done.

Hola! 

I found a place where EVERYBODY can get tested and nobody is allowed entry.  Of course you need to be extremely well moneyed, or a housekeeper/cook for the extremely well moneyed.    It is as if "YAHOO NEWS" saw my last comment here and tailored this article for me to share!
Everyone Wants an Antibody Test. Everyone on This Private Island Can Get One.

Things are different in Fisher Island, the exclusive enclave off Miami Beach that is one of the wealthiest places in America. No uninvited outsiders are allowed in. Entrance is permitted only by boat.

And everyone who lives or works there can now get tested to see if they have developed protective antibodies to the coronavirus.

The island has secured the much-sought-after tests for all its residents and their staff through the University of Miami, which has a clinic on site that started scheduling residents last week for appointments, building by building, for a finger-prick blood test. In a matter of minutes, each person learned their results. Home health aides and housekeepers also got tested.....


http://www.yahoo.com/news/everyone-wants-antibody-test-everyone-121422536.html    (http://www.yahoo.com/news/everyone-wants-antibody-test-everyone-121422536.html)

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 15, 2020, 07:21:16 AM
Yes, so blaming China has been ridiculous and an effort to deflect for political advantage.   


They should continue to get blamed. They have created new restrictions into the study and release of any study for publication that talks about the origin of the virus. It's important we find the origin so we don't have another 10-100 trillion dollar fukc up and loss of millions of lives.


Hola! 

I found a place where EVERYBODY can get tested and nobody is allowed entry.  http://www.yahoo.com/news/everyone-wants-antibody-test-everyone-121422536.html    (http://www.yahoo.com/news/everyone-wants-antibody-test-everyone-121422536.html)



Article said they paid $17 a test. Probably got a bulk discount. I remember seeing the test kit they used advertised last month. Link below. Question is...is it accurate enough to where our government will use it?

http://www.biomedomics.com/products/infectious-disease/covid-19-rt/

I think in the end, we are going to learn Trump's miracle drug, Hydroxychloroquine is ineffective against the virus. The drug is used by people who have lupus, a disease where people's immune system attacks flesh and organs. If a doctor gave Hydroxychloroquine to a person who had a mild case of COVID-19, it may actually restrain that person's immune system giving the virus a better chance to win. So the drug and combo drugs should be reserved for the worst cases where a person's immune system is on overdrive. In the end, it's possible we will see Trump's miracle drug approved but with restrictions that are going to disappoint most people looking for a treatment 100% of the people can benefit from.


Early study came in saying Hydroxychloroquine doesn't clear the virus. A lot more studies are still ongoing though.

 http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/hyped-malaria-pill-doesnt-help-clear-coronavirus-in-study/ar-BB12EEbv?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 15, 2020, 07:53:30 AM
Some wonderful news ... A lady ..106 years young ..came through this ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-52296196

A 106-year-old great-grandmother, thought to be Britain's oldest patient to recover from coronavirus, has been discharged from hospital.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 15, 2020, 08:16:44 AM
California’s 2019 population is 39.5 million. To date, 860 died of COVID.
New York’s 2019 population is 19.45 million. To date, 8,600 died of COVID.


One factor . . . L.A. county is largest, in terms of area, in USA.

So density of people much, much greater in NYC as compared to L.A.
And, use of public transportation in NYC much, much greater in NYC compared to L.A.

Not sure of the density in S.F. compared to NYC.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 15, 2020, 08:22:22 AM
One factor . . . L.A. county is largest, in terms of area, in USA.

So density of people much, much greater in NYC as compared to L.A.
And, use of public transportation in NYC much, much greater in NYC compared to L.A.

Not sure of the density in S.F. compared to NYC.

SF is nearly similar to New York (SF's Victorian row always reminded me of the residential districts of the Bronx/Brooklyn, and even districts in Philadelphia, except the architectural facade). Same type of lifestyle with the exception that NY, like Vegas, doesn't really 'sleep'. In some regards, though of lesser density than SF, so would San Diego & even Long Beach..
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 15, 2020, 08:32:46 AM
'Rule of thumb' seems to be that out of 100 infected, 20 will be hit bad enough to be hospitalized, with 2-3% of those that are hospitalized die.

It appears to be the pattern. I will agree. 

Quote
Problem is that we've found no one that is immune to catching this bug.  As far as we know it will infect everyone unlike influenza where many are immunized and others carry some immunity from prior bouts, minor to severe.  Everyone does not get the flu every year and the infection rate is much lower than covid.

so max might look like 330 million, 66 million ending up in hospitals and 1.6+ million dead.. oops much higher as the hospitals would never be able to keep up with that amount of people.

This I don't agree. Like influenza so far, COVID infection doesn't always equate to people getting hospitalized, 80%+/- do not if the average maintain itself. The majority simply practice home quarantine until recovery. In addition, while we don't have a definitive number for obvious reasons, there are a great many that are asymptomatic. You used the same calculation BillyB did. It's erroneous.

Quote
This not counting for repeats as we do not yet know how long antibodies remain effective.

I heard report of two cases, but haven't really made final conclusion if it was in fact a 'relapse'.

Quote
Nothing to sneeze at.

See above.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 15, 2020, 09:02:01 AM
You used the same calculation BillyB did. It's erroneous.


You don't need calculations or test kits to understand the danger. Just a small fraction of the population getting the coronavirus overwhelms hospitals, kills dozens of medical personnel and makes tens of thousands of them sick, not to mention shutting down the economy. We should be past the point of comparing this virus to the flu. There is no comparison. Over 175 million Americans don't get flu vaccinations. Flu is free to enter into the bodies of that amount of people but you will not see exponential growth of infections and deaths. With the coronavirus, you will see 57 Americans dead in the first two months. In the next 3 weeks you will see 26,000 Americans dead. In the few weeks you will see 260,000 Americans dead and the next month you will see 2.6 million dead if we allow it to roam free like the flu virus. That is how this coronavirus works and that is why you see governments take the actions they take. We and Governments do not need to prove my or BC's calculations are true because it will cost millions or tens of millions of lives to see if we're right.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 15, 2020, 09:20:28 AM

This I don't agree.

GQ,

Indeed I was wrong.

The 100 are those that were tested, meaning they had some symptoms and went to the hospital to get tested.  We can pretty much assume this is the case for the vast majority due to the shortage of testing.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 15, 2020, 09:27:48 AM
I HAVE BEEN WRITING THIS AMID SEVERAL INTERRUPTIONS.  BC and GQ  FOLLOWUP POSTS MAY MAKE IT REDUNDANT.

'Rule of thumb' seems to be that out of 100 infected*** with symptoms, 20 will be hit bad enough to be hospitalized, with 2-3% of those that are hospitalized die. 


______________________________________________________________
*** People who presented themselves to  a health care facility, expressed sufficient symptoms to justify testing, and the testing reported "positive."   Some were immediately admitted to a hospital, and the others returned home to quarantine.   Some of those in home quarantine were later admitted to the hospital.   



This testing coverage is missing what is believed to be a significant proportion of the total population.   First are the FPs who never went to a healthcare facility.  Also, there have been many recent reports of random testing such as the maternity ward testing in NYC.  Such random testing reveals a high number of asymptomatic carriers, indicating the denominator is much greater than 100.  The numerator is also subject to more analysis, showing the it needs to be adjusted downward.   

The more we test, the more the case fatality ratio drops.  Some are suggesting it to be as low as 0.1%.  Who knows?     To confirm this less dire outlook,  we need statistically representative testing, not testing of the entire population.  The $43 serology test for antibodies will help.     
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 15, 2020, 10:22:58 AM
The more we test, the more the case fatality ratio drops.  Some are suggesting it to be as low as 0.1%.  Who knows?     To confirm this less dire outlook,  we need statistically representative testing, not testing of the entire population.  The $43 serology test for antibodies will help.   


A .1% case fatality rate is equivalent to the flu case fatality rate and if true, we would not see our hospitals overwhelmed and there would not be a need to shut down the economy. The world's governments can accept 1 out of every 1000 people dead from any pathogen.

SARS had an 11% case fatality rate. Of course China under reported on that too so excluding China's numbers the case fatality rate of SARS is 16.4%

MERS had a case fatality rate of 34.3%

This new coronavirus has rocked this world much more than those two coronaviruses combined. The truth is easy to see. If it makes anybody feel better to believe this virus is no more dangerous than the flu, do what you need to feel better.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 15, 2020, 10:25:43 AM
Before we get too excited about perhaps lower death rates from Corona and thoughts that the shut downs were unnecessary . . .

Realize that the above is because of the shutdowns and social distancing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 15, 2020, 10:42:21 AM
Gator,

Indeed, cross post.  You and GQ are correct that I was wrong :) That of course does not mean you two or even I are right LOL

You might find the attached interesting.  Unfortunately can't say the same for the US daily infection graph.  There is a peak, but not a discernable downward trend quite yet.  Will be interesting to compare down the road.  I found it interesting that our decline in daily infections is quite linear even with a quite large number of tests being performed.  Looks like we have approximately another month in lockdown for the vast majority of the country barring any surprises...

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 15, 2020, 12:51:22 PM
Some wonderful news ... A lady ..106 years young ..came through this ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-52296196

A 106-year-old great-grandmother, thought to be Britain's oldest patient to recover from coronavirus, has been discharged from hospital.

Oh a possible candidate for a new relationship partner for you then Mobe :-*
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 15, 2020, 03:46:34 PM
Before we get too excited about perhaps lower death rates from Corona and thoughts that the shut downs were unnecessary . . .

Realize that the above is because of the shutdowns and social distancing.

I agree, it looks like there is a real threat of this virus coming back as idiot governments talk of easing restrictions. In Germany they are talking of reopening some schools. The Tour de France has been moved to late August and that usually draws big crowds in France, etc. I see it as easing the wrong type of restrictions. Fine to allow most businesses to operate with a strict laid out social distancing policy but to relax restrictions to allow for stuff that will likely cause a lot of intermingling is sheer stupidity to my mind. If they do go ahead with this stuff a second rise in cases looks likely.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 15, 2020, 04:07:38 PM
Focus on the Future – Going to Work for America


The Washington Post obtained a preliminary copy of the Federal plan to reopen America.   Entitled "Work for America," it is being prepared by FEMA and CDC.  Trump is silent on when the plan will be released, yet he said today "Big day tomorrow.  Very big day." 


The plan is prefaced by the statement:

Quote
  The Framework for Reopening America provides guidance to state, local, tribal, and territorial governments to adjust restrictive community mitigation measures in a controlled way that supports the safe reopening of communities when appropriate, supporting Americans reentering civic life.
 

The plan starts with the explanation of why it is "Important to the American People."

It consists of three parts:

1: Prepare the Nation (now-May 1)
2: Innovation and Ingenuity Applied to Pandemic (now – May 15)
3: Staged Re-Opening (varies by local conditions – not before May 1)

   
Quote
The document says reopening communities in this phased approach “will entail a significant risk of resurgence of the virus.”  Any reopening must meet four conditions:

     -  Incidence of infection is “genuinely low.”
     -  A “well functioning” monitoring system capable of “promptly detecting any increase in incidence” of infection.
     -  A public health system that is “reacting robustly” to all cases of covid-19 and has surge capacity to react to an increase in cases.
     -  A health system that has enough inpatient beds and staffing to rapidly scale up and deal with a surge in cases.

The plan can be found here:

                http://www.washingtonpost.com/context/focus-on-the-future-going-to-work-for-america/89ccccbc-7bf0-48d3-8f0c-275494a3b009/?itid=lk_interstitial_manual_7



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 15, 2020, 04:54:06 PM
Predictably, it's pestered with disclaimer. Going back to work can't be any more dangerous than what our healthcare workers face 12-hours everyday.

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 15, 2020, 06:13:01 PM
GOVERNMENT STIMULUS

It is a slow day in the small town of Pumphandle, and streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody is living on credit. 

A tourist visiting the area drives through town, stops at the motel, and lays a $100 bill on the desk saying he wants to inspect the second floor rooms to pick one.  As soon as he walks upstairs, the motel owner grabs the bill and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher.
 
The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to cover his debt to the pig farmer.
 
The pig farmer takes the $100 and heads off to pay his bill to his supplier, the Co-op.
 
The guy at the Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to the local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer her "services" on credit.
 
The hooker rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill with the hotel owner.
 
The hotel proprietor then places the $100 back on the counter so the traveler will not suspect anything.
 
At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, picks up the $100 bill and leaves. No one produced anything. No one earned anything...
 
However, the whole town is now out of debt and now looks to the future with a lot more optimism.
 
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how a Stimulus package works.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 15, 2020, 06:19:40 PM
There is a logic flaw in that story . . . but I can't immediately identify it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 15, 2020, 06:45:33 PM

 
At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, picks up the $100 bill and leaves. No one produced anything. No one earned anything...
 

It's a fun story but everybody in the town did produce something and earned something although it wasn't money. For example, in the hooker provided a service but she got use of a motel room in exchange. the motel owner gave up use of a motel room and got pork to eat. Fortunately debts were settled quickly after the motel owner was able to borrow $100 with no interest. The only person to get screwed out of all this was the government. They like when money moves through hands since they can tax the money each time it moves.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 15, 2020, 09:21:36 PM
That is how a stimulus package works for low income and/or high debt individuals.  And for the concept of cash flow economics.
 hey spend the money because they have to.

In a real scenario, several of the people would bank the money, especially during an economic downturn.  The hotel owner, the butcher, the farmer or the coop owner would hold on to cash reserves for a financial buffer.

Another scenario: A small business owner gets the stimulus relief, pays the employee, the employee pays rent, and the rental property owner keeps the cash to invest in a new property in the near future because real estate prices might fall.   Or, the money goes to the bank for mortgage.  And it stops there, to go the bank shareholders.  Cash goes in, and then is pulled out of circulation.

National Debt 0, some real property owner, 1.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 16, 2020, 01:30:06 AM
Focus on the Future – Going to Work for America

Gator,

It is indeed good that a plan is being worked on.  But considering we are still at our peak with new daily infections and may well even be undercounting, do you really think the time is 'ripe' to announce a plan based on a tiny flicker at the end of the tunnel?  Seems very, very premature at this point with very little supporting data.  Comparative charts just don't show a decline yet so it is very much up in the air.  In addition, the ratio of tests per day vs infections detected is still very high in the US compared to those on the other side of the Atlantic.

Of 110,000 tests daily 25% are coming up positive, a very high rate still.  Here out of 43,000 tests yesterday, 2,600 new were positive which is still a lot of infections.  The US is several weeks behind Italy and other EU countries with a perceptible drop with new cases nowhere in sight.  I agree the US may well be at the peak, but how long that peak lasts is very much up in the air, without a definite and substantiated trend, much less a prognosis on when it might be safe to lift some restrictions.

I cannot see any of the scientific and medical advisors giving a green light.  Will Trump listen? (I do give him credit for listening and reluctantly acting up till now, but do get the feeling he is not patient enough to wait and running out of folks to blame.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on April 16, 2020, 01:45:42 AM
Gator,

It is indeed good that a plan is being worked on.  But considering we are still at our peak with new daily infections and may well even be undercounting, do you really think the time is 'ripe' to announce a plan based on a tiny flicker at the end of the tunnel?  Seems very, very premature at this point with very little supporting data.  Comparative charts just don't show a decline yet so it is very much up in the air.  In addition, the ratio of tests per day vs infections detected is still very high in the US compared to those on the other side of the Atlantic.

Of 110,000 tests daily 25% are coming up positive, a very high rate still.  Here out of 43,000 tests yesterday, 2,600 new were positive which is still a lot of infections.  The US is several weeks behind Italy and other EU countries with a perceptible drop with new cases nowhere in sight.  I agree the US may well be at the peak, but how long that peak lasts is very much up in the air, without a definite and substantiated trend, much less a prognosis on when it might be safe to lift some restrictions.

I cannot see any of the scientific and medical advisors giving a green light.  Will Trump listen? (I do give him credit for listening and reluctantly acting up till now, but do get the feeling he is not patient enough to wait and running out of folks to blame.

BC,

Your point is well taken.  However, one thing about the US is that we are quite diverse.   What is good for New Jersey does not necessarily hold true in Oregon.   While there is an infection in the State of California, the number hospitalized is minimal.  And the deaths we have had here are also quite limited for the size of our state.

My personal feeling is that school children will not be returning to classrooms before the expected summer break.  The online classes that are being offered do not create risk and therefore will suffice until the year end.  Sports teams may play each other for television audiences without a risk of infecting large stadium crowds.   

These types of decisions are the ones that will need to be plotted out even with an ongoing threat.  My guess is that if California's case load remains manageable, then we will see small steps to reopen society.   And these steps may be the only ones that are taken prior to the advent of a vaccine.   I don't think any of us know when that might be.  Johnson and Johnson will not begin testing of their vaccine until September.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 16, 2020, 03:19:14 AM
BC,

Your point is well taken.  However, one thing about the US is that we are quite diverse.   What is good for New Jersey does not necessarily hold true in Oregon.   

The same applies here, with cities in the south being less affected by those in the north.  We tried attempting to contain hotspots and failed miserably.  The only solution was to apply restrictions for all, even the little town out in the middle of nowhere that has not seen even one case. Same will likely apply for reducing restrictions to help prevent rebounds and new hotspots.

Massive testing is the only way to speed the process and maintain a manageable level of cases.  I do not see that on the US agenda despite clearly having the capability and capacity to do so.  I don't see a national 'will'.  Italian airspace is practically empty aside from cargo aircraft.  How many passenger arrivals at LAX and SFO today?  How many control stations at border highways and city limits?

Let's not get caught again with our pants down due to our 'uniqueness'.  Excuses of 'diversity' or otherwise is just another way of saying 'we can't do it' which I find appalling.  Where's that 'can do' man on the moon spirit? - It never 'trickled down' from the top.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 16, 2020, 03:29:31 AM
Predictably, it's pestered with disclaimer. Going back to work can't be any more dangerous than what our healthcare workers face 12-hours everyday.

That is worthy of comment as being up there with the most silly post ever seen on here ...

Given such health-care folk encounter FAR more of those exhibiting symptoms, at close range, for longer periods  and MUST touch said infected folk ..   

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 16, 2020, 05:43:40 AM

But considering we are still at our peak with new daily infections and may well even be undercounting, do you really think the time is 'ripe' to announce a plan based on a tiny flicker at the end of the tunnel?
 

Its more than a flicker.   But let's not dwell on that.

It sounds as if you are doing fine on your hectare of land.  I am doing fine on my 5 acres and financial reserves.   Most people are not doing fine. 

The small business safety net has already run out of money, and the House will not appropriate more funds unless some Progressive programs are funded.    My landscaper is eyeing the deer that graze around the property as a source of free meat.  We may set a trap to catch a wild pig.   

Can we not agree that the nation needs to go back to work?  The question is when.  We are not ready today en masse, yet some sectors in some locales are ready.   Going back to work will start with probes, not a banzai charge. 

WE NEED A PLAN TO CHEW ON.  Call it a game plan prepared before the game starts, a plan that has been thoroughly scrutinized and drilled.

For the reasons I gave a couple of days ago going back to work will not be as risky as when this epidemic hit.  I imagine after this plan is revealed, the media will criticize Trump for not sharing the plan earlier.   ;D ;D ;D   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 16, 2020, 05:59:56 AM

Massive testing is the only way to speed the process and maintain a manageable level of cases. 

Meanwhile, the nation's wealth dries up, adding a year, then another year, then another to recovering.  Why?  Debt.  Recovery will not be a V or U, but an L. 

Testing is expanding.  Be smart in rolling the new capabilities and expanded capacities.   Watch all the indicators to head off a second wave of the virus. 


Quote
I don't see a national 'will'.

If you were here, you could feel the will.  A will to work, and there's another will.  America with all its individualism has supported the lockdown.  Bravo!  Let's also call that "will."    There is thought that this will to shelter at home will not be sustained without some sense of hope.     
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 16, 2020, 06:03:34 AM

Can we not agree that the nation needs to go back to work?  The question is when.  We are not ready today en masse, yet some sectors in some locales are ready.   Going back to work will start with probes, not a banzai charge. 

WE NEED A PLAN TO CHEW ON.  Call it a game plan prepared before the game starts, a plan that has been thoroughly scrutinized and drilled.

For the reasons I gave a couple of days ago going back to work will not be as risky as when this epidemic hit.  I imagine after this plan is revealed, the media will criticize Trump for not sharing the plan earlier.   ;D ;D ;D   

I can't speak for the country nor the hot spots of the virus but here, where I am in Texas folks are ready to get back to work. Arkansas, which never implemented a "Stay at home" order has lower infections than any of the 6 states bordering it equaling 9 per million residents (I think) and one of the lowest in the country. Business will take care of business given the opportunity. Will there be more infections? I'm sure there will with or without going back to work. We're certainly moving into the cure being worse than the problem if we do not at least start getting back to business
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 16, 2020, 06:22:29 AM
Protest rising up all over the country because people are demanding to go back to work. Just saw news reports showing various place in the country rallying up to show their frustration and are gathering up doing so.

Get this program rolling whether tiered, phased, elective, whatever...we need to get the country back to work.

That is worthy of comment as being up there with the most silly post ever seen on here ...
Given such health-care folk encounter FAR more of those exhibiting symptoms, at close range, for longer periods  and MUST touch said infected folk ..

In your silly haste to relieve that poker I placed high up where the sun don’t shine in every post I make, you’re starting to see things that isn’t there.  Go back and READ what you bolded and try to understand exactly what was posted. Then come back and make a report, get on your knees and apologize.

Come up for fresh air once in a while.
Title: The Race factor in all of this
Post by: Maxx2 on April 16, 2020, 06:25:26 AM
I'LL HAVE THE CHICKEN TESTICLE SOUP - HOLD THE DEADLY VIRUS
April 8, 2020




It’s probably a coincidence, but I notice that as businesses go under, jobs are lost, careers are ended and trillions of dollars are drained from the economy, the people most avidly pushing the coronavirus panic are doing quite well.

No politician or government official has taken a salary cut. To the contrary, dusty bureaucrats now find the entire country transfixed by their every utterance. Cable news hosts still make millions of dollars -- and now they get to work from home!

Annoyingly, though, journalists can’t seem to relay the basic elements of a news story: who, what, where and why.

First, who’s dying? It appears to be mostly the old, people with specific medical conditions and vapers.

To be sure, that’s not as important as daily updates on Chris Cuomo’s personal battle with the coronavirus, but it might be kind of important to the 17 million Americans who’ve been thrown out of work, many of whom are not elderly, immunocompromised or vapers.

Second, the “what.” What exactly constitutes a “coronavirus death”?

It turns out a person with Stage 4 lung cancer and a bullet through the heart will be counted as a “coronavirus death” if he also tested positive for the disease, OR merely exhibited symptoms associated with it (symptoms that are coextensive with the flu and pneumonia).

We’re told that, if anything, coronavirus deaths are being undercounted because the numbers don’t include those who die of it at home.

If so, then the death count also excludes those who die at home of other things, like heart attacks and poisonings. Many of these people might have survived -- except they were too scared to go to a hospital or couldn't find an EMT to take them there, per current edicts.

The “where” is: Where did the virus originate, and where did it first land in this country?

Despite the media’s best efforts -- DON’T CALL IT THE “CHINESE VIRUS”! -- people know that the virus began at a wet market in China.

But where did it start in this country? Washington state was the site of our very first case. Washington state is also 9.3% Asian. Even now, it has eight times more coronavirus cases per capita than neighboring Oregon (4.8% Asian).

Could it be that Chinese-Americans have more contact with the epicenter of this plague than other Americans? As the left always lectures us, BELIEVE THE SCIENCE!

The virus next leapt to New York (9% Asian) and New Jersey (10% Asian). The worst-hit borough of Manhattan is Queens. Guess which borough has the most Asians? Elmhurst Hospital in Queens is the worst-hit hospital in the nation. Elmhurst neighborhood: 50% Asian.

Notice a pattern? While it’s true that “viruses don’t have nationalities!” -- and thank you very much for pointing that out, media! -- the carriers of viruses do have nationalities.

Arguably, Trump had a reason to shut down travel from China other than “hysteria, xenophobia and fear-mongering", as Joe Biden claimed in a tweet on Feb. 1.

Of course, once it’s here, it’s here and can spread all over. Still, compare New York and New Jersey to, say, Montana and West Virginia.

Chinese virus deaths, so far, by population:

-- New York (9% Asian): 29 per 100,000

-- New Jersey (10% Asian): 13 per 100,000

-- Montana (0.9% Asian): 0.6 per 100,000

-- West Virginia (0.8% Asian): 0.2 per 100,000

Then there’s California, which alone among the four states with the highest Asian populations has relatively few coronavirus cases, probably due to its warm climate and little public transportation, among other things. In those respects, California is a lot like Texas -- which has about a third as many Asians and also about half as many coronavirus deaths (1.1 per 100,000 in California, compared to 0.71 per 100,000 in Texas).

MEDIA: Oh, why does it matter?

OK, OK, you’re right. But isn’t the prevalence of the coronavirus in states with high Asian populations at least as interesting as this recent article in The New York Times magazine?

Story summary:

Man with severe asthma gets coronavirus, has low-grade fever for approximately 10 days with muscle pain, nausea and fatigue, develops walking pneumonia per X-ray (no clinical evidence) ...

Recovers.

The End.


Finally, why? Why do we have to deal with this virus at all?

The media would prefer if you would stop asking this question, but Americans who didn’t have to die are dead because of Wall Street’s decision to merge our economy with the Chinese, who have unusual eating habits.

The Chinese eat wolf pups. But eating dog wasn’t weird enough. It didn’t give them a frisson of freakishness. They also eat bats, snakes and chicken testicles.

Husband: Oh, honey, golden retriever again?

[Kids groan]

Mom: Not tonight! For a special treat, we're having chicken testicles!

Kids: Aw, you're the best mom ever!

Tigers and rhinos are the most endangered species on Earth because Chinese people think rhinoceros horns and tiger penises can cure impotence (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1559635320/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1559635320&linkCode=as2&tag=anncoulter-20&linkId=2345c544cf38d7d516cc1c4f3cd61ada). The Caspian, Bali and Javan tigers are already extinct because of this charming folk remedy.

Recently added to the endangered species list is the cute, cartoonish pangolin, the most trafficked animal is the world. Unfortunately, the pangolin’s scales are believed to cure any number of ailments, according to traditional Chinese medicine.

Where’s PETA?

The media are too busy covering for China. At least the Chinese aren’t white.

Although, it occurs to me that, despite America’s terrible toxic whiteness, one way our culture is superior (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZJJ3QLM/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B00ZJJ3QLM&linkCode=as2&tag=anncoulter-20&linkId=7ea9ef32199641543639f73925f961c2) to others is that we don’t believe lunatic nonsense that wipes out entire species or launches viral pandemics on the world.

Now back to Chris Cuomo’s riveting battle with the coronavirus.

COPYRIGHT 2020 ANN COULTER
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 16, 2020, 06:51:45 AM


Can we not agree that the nation needs to go back to work? 

Sure, as long as you don't mind possibly not enjoying your assets much longer ... and much sooner than nature intended

You should organise a 'protest' like these morons

http://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2020/apr/16/armed-protesters-demand-an-end-to-michigans-coronavirus-lockdown-orders-video (http://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2020/apr/16/armed-protesters-demand-an-end-to-michigans-coronavirus-lockdown-orders-video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyxBANHd4dE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyxBANHd4dE)

How 'interesting' The video of armed protesters got made 'private' ...  and then public again ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 16, 2020, 07:07:27 AM
Yesterday UK government sources reckoned the UK economy could decline by around 35 percent by the time the restrictions ease off, etc. They reckon by the end of the year unemployment will have gone up from 3.5 percent of the workforce to 10 percent before falling back down to around 7 percent.

Those figures are pretty horrific and if they come true will have a potentially life altering impact on many people's lives, most probably for the he worst. So far I've managed to stay in work and happen to be in a sector that is pretty resilient to not being exposed to this kind of thing.

Many people have been taken on by Supermarkets on a temporary basis so far but they are likely to be laid off again when restrictions ease and/if we get this virus thing behind us. I believe we will eventually get this virus thing behind us but it will likely be more towards the end of this year. In the meantime for those that get laid off and particularly for those that get laid off again it ain't going to be a pretty ride. I remember when John Major devasted the economy in the 90's, it went on for years and years of a depressed scene with little hope. I was fortunate to be still in education for most of it and only myself suffered a bit of the tail end of it. Others were not so lucky.

Best hope here is that it all ends up more as similar to vacation time off work and not too much long term damage is done. Many people still are getting an income in some form or another. There will be a cost of how the Chancellor will recoup the 80 percent if salaries given and that may prove difficult to do and something that may be best spread out over the longer term as far as possible. I'm not sure it's going to be a fast recovery after this I think we're just going to have to hope for the best.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 16, 2020, 07:14:04 AM
I remember when John Major devasted the economy in the 90's,

You mean you forgot it was already having issues , as was the situation in the macro sense ?  *I* remember him taking us out of the ERM and the economy picking up and his being re-elected ...  You were a teenager ... I had a mortgage and a new kid ... Guess who'd actually KNOW ? 

Edit to add: As you are so 'concerned' about Italy ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52311263 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52311263)

Coronavirus: EU offers 'heartfelt apology' to Italy


The EU Commission president has offered a "heartfelt apology" to Italy for not helping at the start of its deadly coronavirus outbreak.

Ursula von der Leyen told the EU parliament that "too many were not there... when Italy needed".

Many Italians have criticised the EU's response to the pandemic, and say the bloc did not do enough to help.

The country has recorded more than 21,000 deaths from the virus, the highest toll in Europe.

Italy's Foreign Minister Luigi Di Maio has welcomed Ms von der Leyen's comments, calling them "an important act of truth".


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 16, 2020, 08:34:05 AM
Its more than a flicker.   But let's not dwell on that.

It sounds as if you are doing fine on your hectare of land.  I am doing fine on my 5 acres and financial reserves.   Most people are not doing fine.

Sure, it has been tough here as it has been tough everywhere. But everyone sees the same graph and see more than a flicker.  We've opened up a wee bit. Germany is being a bit bolder - why? They have created a system of detection that works and are reaching the point where they are confident in chasing down and isolating.  It has worked very well for them.  We have a ways to go yet here in Italy, folks are very aware of what can happen and don't seem to mind a more gradual approach.  It is not risk-free but risks are manageable, for now.  We'll know more in a couple of weeks time. Simple things like the wider and broader social net and job guarantees, rent and mortgage moratoriums make a difference along with 80% of your salaries being paid, the continuance of health insurance etc etc.  Here it is more a bottom-up approach, not top-down as seems to be the case in the US.  Yuge difference, but yes still not perfect.  Just last week our tax man did the applications for all his small business clients that qualify Covid bonuses.  Was deposited in our account yesterday.  All this makes the lockdown a lot less stressful, but yes some pain remains.

Quote
The small business safety net has already run out of money, and the House will not appropriate more funds unless some Progressive programs are funded.    My landscaper is eyeing the deer that graze around the property as a source of free meat.  We may set a trap to catch a wild pig. 


If you qualified for a stimulus check,  give it to your landscaper instead. Save the pig and offspring for a really rainy day.

Where did 2 Trillion go?  You'll find the answer following the money. Pushing additional trillions in liquidity into the top level of the 'system' does very little to help the masses. We're top-heavy.  Lighten the load or sink.  Neither does saving the stock market buying lower-grade stokz.  Bailout the airlines en masse to just bail them out again and again?  Pay the workers directly instead and not airframe and airport leases.  It will be a long while before that industry is even capable of using the workers they have now.  Why worry about saving shareholders?  Someone will be buying all those unused planes in the future after filing chapter 11 in a couple of years.  Is Boeing worth saving? Screw the shareholders and let them rebuild the right way.  Foreign flag cruise ships are a luxury, take 'em to the pawnshop instead.

We can't save the status quo Gator, too late for that. So let's change for the better and not on the taxpayers back and our grandkids.  An economic correction was expected so let's let it happen naturally.

Quote
Can we not agree that the nation needs to go back to work?  The question is when.  We are not ready today en masse, yet some sectors in some locales are ready.   Going back to work will start with probes, not a banzai charge.


Probes with what? Empty test tubes? Are emergency rooms and hospital occupancy going to be our 'testing method'? We're at the peak of the infection wave, weeks behind other countries, maybe more.

Quote
WE NEED A PLAN TO CHEW ON.  Call it a game plan prepared before the game starts, a plan that has been thoroughly scrutinized and drilled.

Let's see it.  Impress me and every other worker that wants to return home safe and virus free. Employers can't afford a lame, intermittent workforce.

Quote
For the reasons I gave a couple of days ago going back to work will not be as risky as when this epidemic hit.  I imagine after this plan is revealed, the media will criticize Trump for not sharing the plan earlier.   ;D ;D ;D   

We'll see what he pulls out of the magic hat.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 16, 2020, 08:47:52 AM
Meanwhile, the nation's wealth dries up, adding a year, then another year, then another to recovering.  Why?  Debt.  Recovery will not be a V or U, but an L. 

Testing is expanding.  Be smart in rolling the new capabilities and expanded capacities.   Watch all the indicators to head off a second wave of the virus. 


If you were here, you could feel the will.  A will to work, and there's another will.  America with all its individualism has supported the lockdown.  Bravo!  Let's also call that "will."    There is thought that this will to shelter at home will not be sustained without some sense of hope.   

Wealth can be replaced.  Only astronomical virtual numbers any way that the common family will never understand nor see.  Want to make folks happy?  Give them the power of knowledge, to know what their covid status is so they can weigh their own risk factors.  As it is they will be in the dark and fearful even as the stores, offices and factories raise their shutters.

Only then can they express their will with some degree of confidence and the full potential of individualism.  Looking at the numbers, they are not as impressed as we are here.  Don't confuse will with desperation.
Title: Risk to lives in not restarting economy
Post by: ML on April 16, 2020, 08:51:19 AM
Something I haven't seen mentioned here.

At news conference in reply to question about risk to lives in starting up economy, Donald said:

There is also risk of life in not starting up economy.

He went on to list:  Increased suicide rate, increased drug usage, etc., from people's frustration of being out of work.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 16, 2020, 09:12:46 AM
Wealth can be replaced.  Only astronomical virtual numbers any way that the common family will never understand nor see.  Want to make folks happy?  Give them the power of knowledge, to know what their covid status is so they can weigh their own risk factors.  As it is they will be in the dark and fearful even as the stores, offices and factories raise their shutters.

Only then can they express their will with some degree of confidence and the full potential of individualism.  Looking at the numbers, they are not as impressed as we are here.  Don't confuse will with desperation.

BC-

From my perspective, even in normal times, working is ingrained deeply amongst Americans psyche. There were times in the past, even our work week schedule is somewhat ridiculed because of the total hours we work and the relative lesser times provided for vacations and holidays - comparatively to Europeans..

Maybe being in Europe for so long you've lost that awareness and understanding of the fiber of our society. The very vast majority of Americans cannot sit idly by and not work.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 16, 2020, 09:30:03 AM


 
GDP per hour worked ..2015

USA ( 5th )  ... Behind four nations from .... EUROPE ..

http://time.com/4621185/worker-productivity-countries/

Will you never learn to read the links you post for proof? Did you read it or did you not have your calculator? Google isn't your friend
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 16, 2020, 09:41:04 AM
BC-

From my perspective, even in normal times, working is ingrained deeply amongst Americans psyche. There were times in the past, even our workweek schedule is somewhat ridiculed because of the total hours we work and the relative lesser times provided for vacations and holidays - comparatively to Europeans..

Maybe being in Europe for so long you've lost that awareness and understanding of the fiber of our society. The very vast majority of Americans cannot sit idly by and not work.

Yes, am aware of the different 'dog eat dog, run run, time is money lifestyle' aspects, but as you seem to say I don't live it, nor want to, nor would want my employees to live such.  Am I wrong that a good part of that is to simply be in a position to pay the bills?  Is another to 'bump' productivity and thus shareholder profitability?  What is wrong with mom or dad having a choice whether to take that second job or not.  What is wrong with folks having a full month of vacation time, a halfway livable minimum wage, paid sick and maternity leave and a certain level of mandated job security.  What is wrong with folks not having to worry about medical bills and on and on and on...  The health of the financial sector of our economy should not be on the backs of the bottom 50% sweating and struggling to pay the bills, student and healthcare debt, fearful of the next disaster and depending on shady payday loans to put gas in the car or pay the landlord.

Great for the Dow, but not so hot for the health and happiness of the majority of our population.

Are my thoughts that out of whack?

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 16, 2020, 09:53:27 AM
I see Maxx has been reading wacko web sites that politicise anything and everything and draw 'wacko 'conclusions ...

Did we first hear about this virus in China ... ?  YES  ..

So why is it a surprise that Chinese folk spread it, initially ? 

Patients 0 and 1 in the UK were Chinese  - ( York)  - in the north ...like many Chinese tourists - one of them came to celebrate their new year .. It is thought they didn't really infect anyone.

But the most 'famous' ( KNOWN ) Super Infector in the earliest days was a white middle-class Brit, who had been in Singapore and went to a Spanish island, French Ski resort and spread it to his home town in Brighton ..

Never fear... we were told 'we had the world-leading tests' and the risk was low ... ( upgraded from ultra-low )

In the UK, more Central Southern Asian and Afro-Caribbean Doctors and Nurses are dying, proportionally. ...Thank GOD, they don't believe it's a 'conspiracy'..

The UK has just announced another 3 weeks 'lockdown'.  Guess what ?  We'll not see wackos with rifles demanding to be allowed to spread the virus ...

   




Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 16, 2020, 09:55:25 AM
Yes, am aware of the different 'dog eat dog, run run, time is money lifestyle' aspects, but as you seem to say I don't live it, nor want to, nor would want my employees to live such.  Am I wrong that a good part of that is to simply be in a position to pay the bills?

At the present times, government and corresponding financial institutions, utility agencies, etc...had adjusted their normal functions to avert, defer, aid, etc...any outstanding charges to pacify current condition. Here's one example of this:

Quote
What is the California Climate Credit?

This April[1] your utility bill will include a credit identified as the “California Climate Credit.” Your household and millions of others throughout the state will receive this credit on your utility bills. This credit may help offset energy costs from higher usage as Californians have stayed at home during the recent month in response to the novel coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic.

The California Climate Credit is part of California’s efforts to fight climate change. This credit is from a state program that requires power plants, natural gas providers, and other large industries that emit greenhouse gases to buy carbon pollution permits. The credit on your bill is your share of the payments from the State’s program. For more information about the Climate Credit, visit www.cpuc.ca.gov/climatecredit/*.

If you’re having trouble paying your natural gas bill and want to learn more about resources to help you and your household, please visit http://www.socalgas.com/coronavirus.

So no, BILLS are hardly a concern..

Quote from: BC
Is another to 'bump' productivity and thus shareholder profitability?  What is wrong with mom or dad having a choice whether to take that second job or not.  What is wrong with folks having a full month of vacation time, a halfway livable minimum wage, paid sick and maternity leave and a certain level of mandated job security.  What is wrong with folks not having to worry about medical bills and on and on and on...  The health of the financial sector of our economy should not be on the backs of the bottom 50% sweating and struggling to pay the bills, student and healthcare debt, fearful of the next disaster and depending on shady payday loans to put gas in the car or pay the landlord.

No. Again, No one is sweating *bills*, factoring the gov't stimulus, plus industry wide leniency regarding current crisis condition.

Quote from: BC
Great for the Dow, but not so hot for the health and happiness of the majority of our population. Are my thoughts that out of whack?

Based on all what you expressed above, yes. Your thought is out of whack. US is a 'working' society. Whether you can understand that or not, doesn't change that fact.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 16, 2020, 10:15:31 AM
You mean you forgot it was already having issues , as was the situation in the macro sense ?  *I* remember him taking us out of the ERM and the economy picking up and his being re-elected ...  You were a teenager ... I had a mortgage and a new kid ... Guess who'd actually KNOW ? 

Edit to add: As you are so 'concerned' about Italy ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52311263 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52311263)

Coronavirus: EU offers 'heartfelt apology' to Italy


The EU Commission president has offered a "heartfelt apology" to Italy for not helping at the start of its deadly coronavirus outbreak.

Ursula von der Leyen told the EU parliament that "too many were not there... when Italy needed".

Many Italians have criticised the EU's response to the pandemic, and say the bloc did not do enough to help.

The country has recorded more than 21,000 deaths from the virus, the highest toll in Europe.

Italy's Foreign Minister Luigi Di Maio has welcomed Ms von der Leyen's comments, calling them "an important act of truth".

Thatcher's economic policies were bad as the housing market was overheating, the opening up of the stock market led to a rise then a crash, the poll tax was unfair and unworkable and essentially a lot of money was thrown around leading to a temporary mid eighties boom followed by a late eighties/early to mid nineties bust. The economy never really recovered until Labour came to power in 97 and hence a change of economic policy, the Bank of England being given control to set interest rates, etc.

Major continued the incompetence moves of the Thatcher government. Major spent a lot of taxpayers money trying to keep in the ERM (an early to be EU debacle) and ultimately failed gambling away a lot of taxpayers money and putting this country in debt. George Soros got rich out of it and we lost the gamble, the height of incompetence to gamble a whole country's money like a some betting shop addict. Unemployment went way up after that, and industry shuttered up across the country. Perhaps you was one of the lucky few that didn't suffer or know anyone who did, but it was a bleak picture for many. House repossessions rose also though my family was fortunate to avoid that in not having a mortgage by that time. If you look at the unemployment figures from that time and house repossessions they tell you all you need to know Mobers. That and Major lost the 97 General Election as he was so incompetent on the economy. He won in 91 as people thought give him a go after Thatcher and they didn't really trust Neil Kinnock, thought to be too Socialist. The loss in 97 for Major tells you he was no good Mobers, he would have won otherwise ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 16, 2020, 10:23:35 AM
GQ, weren't we talking about 'normal times' you mentioned in your post?

I guess we are talking past each other.

That's ok, I think I get your point as you do mine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 16, 2020, 10:40:36 AM
what lurks in the shadows dear reader...

everything Trump has done in handling this crisis has been COMPLETELY wrong...
EVERY single time on every single issue

If Trump had done just one of the awful things he’s done, it would've been considered shortsighted and represented a shocking lack of leadership, but Trump's done them all. Yet that still doesn't prompt you dumb phuques to address the bigger picture and ask disturbing questions about a president who seems to be okay with watching America crumble and decay on his watch.

The media's preferred storyline that suggests Trump is simply incompetent doesn't add up because Trump has made the wrong decision every single time in terms of how crises like this are supposed to be dealt with. (i.e. Be consistent, transparent, factual, and credible.) It's increasingly not believable for the press to suggest Trump has been distracted or inept during this crisis, in part because of the level of White House uselessness has become so staggering.

so why won’t you guys ask yourselves the question of WHY Trump is doing what he’s doing
is it simple incompetence or something else?

unfortunately this is a bad time for whistle blowers
they get silenced easily and what’s worse
no one in the IC wants to lose their jobs over this issue
or anything Russian at all
guess what dumb phuques
all your bases belong to us now!!!
paka
 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on April 16, 2020, 10:46:32 AM
Doing a quick comparison, New York now claims 16232 fatalities while the entire country claims 33000.  Inasmuch as the incubation period for the virus seems to be 10-14 days, we have now been in quarantine longer than initial incubation periods. 

Today New York registered 608 fatalities.   The rest of the country?   Less than 300.  The five boroughs account for 70% of the state's fatalities.

Aside from New York and New Jersey, the country has experienced around 14000 fatalities. 

All states aside from New York and New Jersey reported, cumulatively, 186 fatalities across the country. However New England remains the hardest hit with Rhode Island and Massachusetts following behind New York and New Jersey.

If these two states were not in the mix, I believe we would be discussing the reopening of segments of our economy.

Here's an interesting anecdote:  A friend of mine is staying in a motel room through the duration.   Yesterday the hotel manager tried to kick him out even though his room was paid.   The excuse?   Transient housing laws.   He had stayed in the room for 30 days.   My friend called the police.   A black and white went to the motel and, aside from explaining the shelter-in-place edict by the governor, told the motel manager to wear masks while interacting with his guests. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 16, 2020, 10:50:57 AM
Jone,

We could say much the same here with Lombardia being our NY/NJ but we know that doesn't work.  Some regions like US states are voicing their views, but ultimately we will have to act as one.

It is still early in the day.  The numbers will rise considerably as stations report in for the day, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 16, 2020, 11:18:50 AM
Trench, like Gator, confuses macro economics v the virtually micro management of govts ..

Thatcher's economic policies were bad as the housing market was overheating, the opening up of the stock market led to a rise then a crash

So, Thatcher caused the world's stock markets to crash ? ...

, the poll tax was unfair

Tosh, it was fairer than 'rate-able values' and placed the cost of services per head - not on the value of the property ..

essentially a lot of money was thrown around leading to a temporary mid eighties boom followed by a late eighties/early to mid nineties bust.

To remind you - this was not just Britain ,,,


The economy never really recovered until Labour came to power in 97

'Sure' my house nearly quadrupled in value ... You are talking TOSH .. The VERY first thing Brown did was Tax pensions ..


and hence a change of economic policy, the Bank of England being given control to set interest rates, etc.

It was never 'independent' and the very last thing Brown did was to INCREASE lending rates , before handing over 'control' ..

Major continued the incompetence moves of the Thatcher government. Major spent a lot of taxpayers money trying to keep in the ERM (an early to be EU debacle) and ultimately failed gambling away a lot of taxpayers money and putting this country in debt. George Soros got rich out of it and we lost the gamble, the height of incompetence to gamble a whole country's money like a some betting shop addict.

Indeed, Mr Soros drove the markets ... and made a stash at our cost ...  You seem to be confusing ERM with the later Euro ( not EU ) ..

I get the impression you've picked this up from somewhere .. it read's like an awful  student's essay

Unemployment went way up after that, and industry shuttered up across the country. Perhaps you was one of the lucky few that didn't suffer or know anyone who did, but it was a bleak picture for many. House repossessions rose also though my family was fortunate to avoid that in not having a mortgage by that time. If you look at the unemployment figures from that time and house repossessions they tell you all you need to know Mobers. That and Major lost the 97 General Election as he was so incompetent on the economy. He won in 91 as people thought give him a go after Thatcher and they didn't really trust Neil Kinnock, thought to be too Socialist. The loss in 97 for Major tells you he was no good Mobers, he would have won otherwise ;)

Major lost because of anti EU Bastards nearly causing the Conservatives to split and many corrupt MPs ...     

Yours was an unprofessional, revisionist history attempt ... D-

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 16, 2020, 11:51:29 AM
I cannot see any of the scientific and medical advisors giving a green light.  Will Trump listen? (I do give him credit for listening and reluctantly acting up till now, but do get the feeling he is not patient enough to wait and running out of folks to blame.


Dr. Fauci said Trump has always listened to his advice. Contrary to what the media wants us to believe, Trump cares about American lives more than the economy. He has factored in death and misery into the equation due to the economy being shut down too long. There will be much more death and possibly wars if people remain on welfare too long to the point governments can't afford to function. I've listened to most of Trump's briefings. If you heard him, you will know the media is BS'ing you. Yesterday Trump said Governors get to decide when their States are ready to open up. The clashing between Trump and governors was another sensational story by the media. I seen a video of a doctor talking and he says the depression rate in Wuhan is 50%. Society and economy can't function properly with half the people being sad.

Something I haven't seen mentioned here.

At news conference in reply to question about risk to lives in starting up economy, Donald said:

There is also risk of life in not starting up economy.

He went on to list:  Increased suicide rate, increased drug usage, etc., from people's frustration of being out of work.

The media doesn't want to educate people on the good things Trump says in those briefings. They want us to believe Trump is dysfunctional so they'll make up a story governors are complaining the federal govt isn't helping.

People are getting their stimulus checks faster than any time in history. Faster than when Bush and Obama ordered citizens to get some checks, yet if you read the below article, people are angry about delays and it implies our government is dysfunctional. Trump's program is so good at getting citizens money, even dead people who filed their taxes in 2018 and 19 got a stimulus check already.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/delays-to-coronavirus-stimulus-cash-cause-angst-confusion-this-is-all-just-insane/ar-BB12IwXR?ocid=ientp

Doing a quick comparison, New York now claims 16232 fatalities while the entire country claims 33000.  Inasmuch as the incubation period for the virus seems to be 10-14 days, we have now been in quarantine longer than initial incubation periods. 


Just a few hotspots in America has made the virus the #1 killer of Americans over any diseases or accidents. Based off the data coming out of NY and the poor response there, if a Republican were governor, the media would hang him and start a petition to recall but because a Democrat is governor, they're putting his daily briefings on national tv so he can get national exposure and prodding him to run for President. Go figure. The rest of America isn't too bad. The question becomes how much can we reopen the economy while managing the spread so it doesn't overload hospitals and force most people to stay home a month to bring the numbers back down. It will be a balancing act for as long as there isn't a vaccine available.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 16, 2020, 12:08:39 PM
Trench, like Gator, confuses macro economics v the virtually micro management of govts ..

So, Thatcher caused the world's stock markets to crash ? ...

Tosh, it was fairer than 'rate-able values' and placed the cost of services per head - not on the value of the property ..

To remind you - this was not just Britain ,,,


'Sure' my house nearly quadrupled in value ... You are talking TOSH .. The VERY first thing Brown did was Tax pensions ..


It was never 'independent' and the very last thing Brown did was to INCREASE lending rates , before handing over 'control' ..

Indeed, Mr Soros drove the markets ... and made a stash at our cost ...  You seem to be confusing ERM with the later Euro ( not EU ) ..

I get the impression you've picked this up from somewhere .. it read's like an awful  student's essay

Major lost because of anti EU Bastards nearly causing the Conservatives to split and many corrupt MPs ...     

Yours was an unprofessional, revisionist history attempt ... D-

You're telling me he lost a whole General Election on that, lol.

No it obviously takes more than that to lose a General Election, especially by the long margin he list the election one of their worst defeats on record. That and they didn't get back in for many years and lost many subsequent elections - all because you say of a few Eurosceptic rebels and some corrupt MP's lol.

I think you will find the Tory Party was not at risk of splitting apart. The Tory Eurosceptic rebels were at that time a small bunch much smaller than in later years leading to the Referendum. They caused Major trouble and made a weak leader look even weaker but that was about it. They were only able to do that because they kept losing Tory MP's who were too geriatric to stay alive thus Major losing much of his already slim majority.

The corrupt MP's just showed the Electorate what a greedy dispicable bunch a lot of the rich in positions of power are. Many of them became cocky and overconfident in their corrupt manner as they had been in power for so long.

The Economy (stupid) was the main reason the Tories lost in 97 and so badly, if it had been strong like you say the above wouldn't have been enough to make them lose so bad.

I think it is really you that is trying to revise history Mobers and trying to cover it up by accessing me off it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 16, 2020, 12:36:34 PM
GQ, weren't we talking about 'normal times' you mentioned in your post? I guess we are talking past each other. That's ok, I think I get your point as you do mine.

It appears that way BC.

I do would like to maybe point something out to you. TBH, I had to read what payday loan was about as I've notice this in your last post, and others in the past. Couple this with 'student loans', 'bills', even your perspective of US healthcare, the uninsured, etc.

These reasons alone gives me some understanding what rung in our society you are basing your opinion on, or even perspective, of working Americans.

You ought to know by now 80% of Americans get their insurance via employment. Even before ACA. The number of uninsured then and now is pretty much the same. And likely the very same 'lot' - MEDICAID.

Bills/Mortgages, etc..I do not know too many people in my circles of friends, family, associates, etc..are in debt or have money problems. The few that are/were, are those who recently went through divorces, or separations...As for being 'debt', the majority of the debt Americans take are with home ownership. Your obvious alternative with this is 'rent'. Wifey and I are technically 'in debt', if you want to call it that, as we have mortgages in 2 of the 3 properties we have. One of the property we're renting out actually gives us monthly income. The other one we're currently living in is, well, if we're not living here, we'd be paying far more for rent with zero equity earning potential every month. All 3 have a pretty good equity currently and if we sold all today, we'd have a handsome windfall. Is this 'bad' to you?

Student loans: This I really do not understand for the simple reason I had sent my wife for nearly 5 years to a California University to earn her degree based on 'our' one income household. We were never in debt, and trust me when I say this, we/I aren't exactly as rich as perhaps ML or Gator. Didn't need a *student loan*. Hell, I even got her a brand new car to use to go to college.

Payday Loan: (http://personalmoneynetwork.com/payday-loans/) (I had to Google this to find out what it actually was)
Quote
When you need money now like $300 or $500, people with bad credit can use payday loans to help make ends meet.

Sheessh LMAO! Who the heck do you hang around with in the US, BC? Again, you do based a lot of your opinion about the US on possibly the lowest rung of our society then extrapolate that to the entire population and cite how terrible things are here. 50% of us use payday loans to pay bills?!? LMAO. Sorry. I can't even begin to imagine why anyone would even submit to this arrangement. Anyone with a job and good credibility have others mean to sustain their finances far more easier and sane. Again, you're selectively slicing a small section of our society and extrapolating it as though it is mainstream to support your narrative.

Dog eat dog. Hell Yeah! Competition is awesome. The cream rises to the top. Why not? Isn't that what made the US head and shoulders above the rest?

As for the current crisis. Americans are literally dying to go back to work. You would think with all the advantages being handed out to the population to make do through this crisis, they've mostly have it made in the shade - for the most part. Oh sure, there are still those same fringes in our society that will line up for food banks, etc...

Ask anyone living in SoCal where and who mainly relies on these food banks here. But with this current crisis, it's literally happening even in the European utopias, yes? and BTW, if you ever see videos of those drive through food bank giveaway, like the one here in Inglewood, LMAO...take note what kind of cars these people drive to get their free groceries...

So yeah, my sentiment remains the same. Americans just want to go to work. Prior to this current silly crisis, nearly 97% of the labor force were working. <97% man. How was it in Italy or even the EU? Was/were it comparable to our situation prior to the pandemic?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on April 16, 2020, 12:46:02 PM
The Economy (stupid) was the main reason the Tories lost in 97 and so badly, if it had been strong like you say the above wouldn't have been enough to make them lose so bad.

The UK economy was not doing badly in 1997.  4% growth in 1994. 2.5% in 1995, 2.7%, in 1996, and 2.6% in 1997.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/productivitymeasures/articles/trendsintheukeconomy/2015-02-27 (http://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/productivitymeasures/articles/trendsintheukeconomy/2015-02-27)

I remember reading analysis of the election at the time of the loss.  Part of it was attributed to the ERM, but mostly, it was about how long the Tories had been in power.

Google was used to find the above link.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 16, 2020, 12:52:54 PM
Crashing out of the ERM was only 6 months after Major won a G.Election

It was nearly another five years to the '97 defeat ....
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 16, 2020, 01:40:10 PM
I cannot see any of the scientific and medical advisors giving a green light. 

I imagine that Fauci and Birx are already onboard.  The plan is dynamic and adjustments can be made.

Keep in mind if individuals have the the same concern about risk as you express, they can opt to stay home under the bed 

Also, millions of eyeballs will scrutinize every statistic, looking for an opportunity to show Trump is wrong.  They will give it their full attention, not being preoccupied with a frivolous impeachment.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 16, 2020, 01:57:33 PM

If you qualified for a stimulus check,  give it to your landscaper instead. Save the pig and offspring for a really rainy day.


Uncle Sam whittled down my stimulus check.  Yet it is still amounted to something.   My fellow golfers started a GoFundMe site for furloughed club employees, so I gave part of it there.  As did GQ, Trump's campaign will get some and more.   

I will leave the pigs alone.  They are not as bad as when I first moved in 25+ years ago, uprooting the lawn looking for worms, acorns, etc. Maybe the panther I observed a couple of months ago from my breakfast nook is feasting on them.  Over the years knowledgeable people had seen one every few years, yet I missed them all.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 16, 2020, 02:19:17 PM
So yeah, my sentiment remains the same. Americans just want to go to work. Prior to this current silly crisis, nearly 97% of the labor force were working. <97% man. How was it in Italy or even the EU? Was/were it comparable to our situation prior to the pandemic?

Nevermind, BC. I Googled it (http://tradingeconomics.com/italy/unemployment-rate). Note: I'm not taking a potshot at Italy, as I wanted to just *understand* where this comparison was.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 16, 2020, 02:29:20 PM
I imagine that Fauci and Birx are already onboard.  The plan is dynamic and adjustments can be made.


Our government officials and medical experts are ahead of the game and have discussed various options. They have an idea when they want to tell people to start going back to work and give people hope that some normalcy will return. When the time comes, Fauci and Birx will show models how the infections are down and with social distancing and masks, risk of new infections will be low to give people confidence they can go outside. In a briefing their words will be clear but the next few days and weeks you will read articles Trump is opening the economy too early killing Americans, he doesn't listen to the medical experts and advisors, he's feuding with governors, and pressuring Dr. Fauci with threats to fire him if he doesn't do things the Trump way. One doesn't need to be Nostradamus to see that coming.


A lot of people don't understand the hard work our federal government officials are doing. VP Pence doesn't get much sleep. He's taken calls from all governors and have conference calls with up to 40 governors at a time. Everybody below Trump has worked their ass off to save American lives. Anybody that isn't performing gets kicked off the team. They work hard because Trump demands it. Trump gives them credit on tv but he also brags about what he does. I don't fault him for that because most of the media says he's doing a bad job so his televised briefings and tweets are the only way he can tell the public directly what he's doing to handle the crisis. If people refuse to vote for Trump because they believe the media saying he does a bad job, they are also voting to put the very hard working heroes/people in his administration out of a job.
Title: Donald is going to tell us soon something about reopening businesses. 6 PM EST.
Post by: ML on April 16, 2020, 03:03:13 PM
Donald is going to tell us soon something about reopening businesses.  6 PM EST.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 16, 2020, 04:04:04 PM
Awesome! Good program! Good luck to all my fellow Americans!

Another 5 million tests by end of April? That's remarkable, too. Thumbs-up to Abbott Labs. Nice work!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 16, 2020, 04:25:18 PM
Not only are Birx and Fauci onboard with this plan, they endorse it.  In fact, medical science is interwoven throughout the plan with stringent criteria for each step, expanded testing including sentinel tests, guidelines, etc. 

Now it is up to the Governors.  Some will start soon, maybe tomorrow,  because they already have a relatively low incidence of infection and meet the threshold criteria.   

There is still much to do, and it will be a long time before life resembles 2019.  One can only hope that Americans will put politics aside and do their part to heal America.

Good luck to us all as we take this necessary and huge step forward.          
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 16, 2020, 04:35:46 PM
I think Donald was pretty smart in giving Governors the ability to make decisions for their own state.

I know dems and MSM will still claim that Donald 'opened up the country' too soon, but easier to refute under this plan put forth.

I am sure Donald had to wrestle with this as he wanted to be the 'decider' for the entire country, but better for him this way.

I think this is going to be pretty chaotic though with states open next to closed states and border guards put up, and some rioting, etc., by those wanting to go to next state for work, etc.

Pretty sure also that many (most) folks in all states will just say:  Hey, it's all over now . . . let's party!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 16, 2020, 04:38:49 PM
The truth is, if fiction is to provide a sense of reality
to give an illusion of fact, it can never do so by employing facts successfully.

Dva Nosh Grozny


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 16, 2020, 04:40:50 PM
Flipped the TV to CNN. 

Gloomy faces, expression of doubts, repeated accusations that Trump did not take the virus as a serious threat, predictions of surges and having to lockdown again, can't go outside until we have a vaccine..... in other words continuing to rob people of hope. 

Fortunately the true American spirit won't buy their dread. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 16, 2020, 04:44:23 PM

I think this is going to be pretty chaotic though with states open next to closed states and border guards put up, and some rioting, etc., by those wanting to go to next state for work, etc.

The plan requires extensive surveillance, analysis and adjustments. 
 

Quote
Pretty sure also that many (most) folks in all states will just say:  Hey, it's all over now . . . let's party!

That would be a mistake.  Some folks will,  but "most?"
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 16, 2020, 05:19:37 PM
Pretty sure also that many (most) folks in all states will just say:  Hey, it's all over now . . . let's party!


In this day and age the best party is a party of one!

I wanted to go to Las Vegas this year but if there is a vacation, it'll be in a location where few people gather or cancelled. I don't gamble but I can imagine, even if the economy opens up, casinos will be hurting. There will be a lot of hands touching slot machines and cards. It'll be a turn off for many gamblers.

Going to live concerts and sporting events probably not going to happen for awhile. Go to Ticketmaster and all events say cancelled except for a few that says postponed. When concerts, sporting events and casinos are allowed to open up, will the government give them special protections to where they won't get sued if a fan or customer gets infected and dies? We are a sue happy nation.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 16, 2020, 06:20:20 PM
April, May, June...

I still anticipate a 2-3% contraction for Q2. If the SBA II doesn’t get out by May, expect a wash or even slight contraction for Q3.

One of the most wonderful news I heard today was there wasn’t ONE person denied use of a ventilator when needed much less choose who dies because of the lack of it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 16, 2020, 06:30:06 PM
"Fortunately the true American spirit won't buy their dread."

denial, isn't a river in Egypt...
instead it's the river you're floating on now 'pardner'

just ask yourself one question
if Trump was an Russian asset obeying Putin's direct orders to destroy America...
then tell me one thing he'd have done differently, from what he's actually done...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on April 16, 2020, 07:38:12 PM
Can You Beat COVID-19 Without a Lockdown? Sweden Is Trying
The Swedish experiment is to accept the coronavirus as a problem to be managed, rather than conclusively defeated. But will it mean more deaths? By T.A. Frank April 16, 2020
Quote
Sweden has a way of triggering people. It represents everything we’re supposed to do or everything we’re not supposed to do. It is the welfare state at its best or multiculturalism at its worst. True to form, or contrary to form, Sweden is now setting off everyone in its handling of the coronavirus. Unlike most of the developed world, including neighboring Norway or Denmark, Sweden has kept its elementary schools running and allowed most its businesses, including restaurants and bars, to remain open. Travel in and out of the country remains possible for E.U. nationals. And social distancing remains, for the most part, voluntary, provided the group in question has fewer than 50 people. In short, Sweden has refused to join the rest of us in a lockdown.This has caused a lot of traditional Sweden lovers and Sweden bashers to trade places. Much of the MSNBC left, which normally loves Sweden, now shakes its head (http://www.msnbc.com/transcripts/rachel-maddow-show/2020-04-08). Much of the Fox News right, which often scorns Sweden, is now a fan (http://twitter.com/IngrahamAngle/status/1248304860363198469). Populists on both sides are critical, with the populist left interpreting Sweden’s response as an outgrowth of a cold-blooded neoliberalism (market efficiencies over humanity) and the populist right seeing it as an outgrowth of a fanatical globalism (loose borders over health).
MORE>>>>  http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/04/can-you-beat-covid-19-without-a-lockdown-sweden-is-trying
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 16, 2020, 08:19:34 PM
Can You Beat COVID-19 Without a Lockdown? Sweden Is Trying


Sweden is taking action against the virus on a limited scale and they do recommend people to stay home. They want to manage the crisis without taking too much of a hit on the economy. Eventually countries that did lockdowns will want to continue managing it too limiting groups sizes and encouraging social distancing.


Who is going to pay for this????

The new coronavirus kills by inflaming and clogging the tiny air sacs in the lungs, choking off the body’s oxygen supply until it shuts down the organs essential for life. But clinicians around the world are seeing evidence that suggests the virus also may be causing heart inflammation, acute kidney disease, neurological malfunction, blood clots, intestinal damage and liver problems.

Almost half the people hospitalized because of covid-19 have blood or protein in their urine, indicating early damage to their kidneys

Even more alarming, he added, is early data that shows 14 to 30 percent of intensive-care patients in New York and Wuhan, China losing kidney function and requiring dialysis, or its in-hospital cousin, continuous renal replacement therapy.

A particular danger of the virus appears to be its tendency to produce blood clots in the veins of the legs and other vessels, which can break off, travel to the lung and cause death by a condition known as pulmonary embolism.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/coronavirus-destroys-lungs-but-doctors-are-finding-its-damage-in-kidneys-hearts-and-elsewhere/ar-BB12F0de?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 16, 2020, 08:36:04 PM
"Fortunately the true American spirit won't buy their dread."

denial, isn't a river in Egypt...
instead it's the river you're floating on now 'pardner'

just ask yourself one question
if Trump was an Russian asset obeying Putin's direct orders to destroy America...
then tell me one thing he'd have done differently, from what he's actually done...

You imagine yourself as a clairvoyant.  To me you are as blind as a Wuhan bat. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 17, 2020, 12:25:46 AM
The UK economy was not doing badly in 1997.  4% growth in 1994. 2.5% in 1995, 2.7%, in 1996, and 2.6% in 1997.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/productivitymeasures/articles/trendsintheukeconomy/2015-02-27 (http://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/productivitymeasures/articles/trendsintheukeconomy/2015-02-27)

I remember reading analysis of the election at the time of the loss.  Part of it was attributed to the ERM, but mostly, it was about how long the Tories had been in power.

Google was used to find the above link.

Unemployment was high throughout, too high, that is why they lost the General Election, unemployed people won't vote for you if you are the cause of their unemployment through bad economic management.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 17, 2020, 01:31:48 AM
Unemployment was high throughout, too high, that is why they lost the General Election, unemployed people won't vote for you if you are the cause of their unemployment through bad economic management.

Repeating bollox will not a fact make , Trenchie

You weren't a mortgage payer or a Dad, then ... 

1/ The economy was ticking along
2/ unemployment was falling
3/ The Tories had been in power 18 years and  were corrupt
4/ Constant bitching about Europe
5/ Blair pulled the rug under the Tories by appealing to Mondeo Man .. then the best selling car ..

Hilarious to hear the view of someone who may just have been old enough to vote for the first time, versus someone voting for the 5th ..

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 17, 2020, 02:37:18 AM
Good luck to us all as we take this necessary and huge step forward.          

Indeed, good luck Gator.

We can only hope that the Governors and citizens of each state act in a responsible and considerate fashion and that they receive the support needed to do so.  It won't be easy, quick or painless.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 17, 2020, 03:10:49 AM
I imagine that Fauci and Birx are already onboard.  The plan is dynamic and adjustments can be made.

Yes, they gave first a red, then yellow and finally green.

My only concern is with the disparity between states that causes more problems down the road. 

The virus does not follow our rules.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 17, 2020, 03:34:01 AM
As has been reported here, some companies are giving covid rebates etc like car insurance companies.

If you have an AMEX Platinum or black, you can call and ask if you can get reward mile points since you are not able to use your normal travel privileges like lounge insurance etc.  Just called and they gave me points equalling 3 months of the card fee that is worth several hundred bucks.  No fuss, just a call.  Don't know if it works in the USA but worth a try. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 17, 2020, 05:02:20 AM
Repeating bollox will not a fact make , Trenchie

You weren't a mortgage payer or a Dad, then ... 

1/ The economy was ticking along
2/ unemployment was falling
3/ The Tories had been in power 18 years and  were corrupt
4/ Constant bitching about Europe
5/ Blair pulled the rug under the Tories by appealing to Mondeo Man .. then the best selling car ..

Hilarious to hear the view of someone who may just have been old enough to vote for the first time, versus someone voting for the 5th ..

I'm right on this Move, but I'm not going to argue with you old man, I have better things to do.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 17, 2020, 05:10:03 AM
I'm right on this Move, but I'm not going to argue with you old man, I have better things to do.

You are no more 'right' than you are on giving 'advice' on how to attract a female ..

But let's put this to bed :


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/basics/4393323.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/basics/4393323.stm)

1/ Europe split the Tories


2/ Sleaze ( Corruption )

"The Tories lost their way as feuding over European policy and sleaze both pointed to a party tired after having spent nearly 20 years in office."


3/

"However, since the Tories had denied responsibility for the recession of the early 1990s, the voters did not give them credit for the subsequent recovery."

You see, Trench ... I lived through those times as an adult .. with responsibilities ... I saw mortgages hit 16.5% for a few hours before we crashed out of the ERM ..Soros is not my mate ...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 17, 2020, 05:51:48 AM
Trump is playing this well politically speaking.   Now there are small protests that people want to reopen economy and get back to the way it was.  Trump has signaled all along that he does too, and if anything he would err on the side of opening sooner rather than later.    I think the protests (Which I suspect will grow) will empower Trump to encourage a reopening of the economy.   

I tentatively support the protests, and the perspective.  With the upcoming changes in society, including masks, and social distancing,, no shaking hands, I support beginning to reopen to a point.  It has been so nice though to have no traffic, but I guess it won't last much longer. 

Overall, I'm not buying into the 'Trump was incompetent' narrative I often read.  I think he has done an adequate job to this point.  My 2 nursing friends are angry with the lack of equipment, and are furious with trump generally,  but this particular issue isn't Trump's fault. 

There is still a perspective that 'This is nothing more than a flu' group.  They should be the first ones to be back out in public, to see if they will live by that creed. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 17, 2020, 07:01:30 AM
My only concern is with the disparity between states that causes more problems down the road. 

The virus does not follow our rules.

China doesn't like to report problems but there has been reports of flare up in some Chinese cities but China blames them on imported cases. It would be nice if they have full disclosure so we can see what may happen in round 2. China doesn't report how many people they've tested but they are selling test kits like hotcakes to other nations.

What we do know is when the virus shows up in a country, it can take two months before the country needs to begin shutting down. With some symptomless people walking around for weeks acting as super spreaders, it is certain we will see small outbreaks in some cities after States open up. Hopefully governors decide to shut down some cities or counties when that happens instead of entire states. Some governors complain that Trump shouldn't close everything down or open everything up at the same time but they themselves can be guilty of that. When Washington State was hotter than California and NY but didn't have stay at home orders like those two States, some mayors in my State wrote to the governor pleading him to follow suit. A few days later he did.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 17, 2020, 07:11:37 AM
Billy,

A partial shutdown is what was first tried here.  Don't need to say much more than that except that by the time you find out you have a problem it is already too late.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 17, 2020, 07:53:09 AM
Nevermind, BC. I Googled it (http://tradingeconomics.com/italy/unemployment-rate). Note: I'm not taking a potshot at Italy, as I wanted to just *understand* where this comparison was.

No problem GQ.

I don't debate that unemployment here is higher than in the US (may sound quirky but unemployment may be momentarily lower here now), as Italy simply banned firing folks during the lockdown period, guess it's like a paid layoff arrangement.

A significant part of the workforce here is 'off books'.  How significant? - enough so that it seems the upcoming April assistance package will provide payments to these workers for a couple of months.

So yeah, is not so easy to compare.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 17, 2020, 08:21:39 AM
Billy,

A partial shutdown is what was first tried here.  Don't need to say much more than that except that by the time you find out you have a problem it is already too late.

It's important for leaders to shut things out before too much exponential growth. Most of the world isn't vaccinated from the flu but we allow the flu to act the way it wants. If this coronavirus is allowed to act the way it wants, we see exponential growth and deaths. How much does difference a month makes? Cheaseaboy made a few posts last month with data  so I'll use his for a comparison of data then and now to give people an idea how fast things can get out of control....even with the action we took in the past month.


The UK has 26 deaths/1M population..that's before todays figures have been announced.


Two weeks later death per capital in the UK increased to 8 times that amount


For the doom and gloom brigade on here,

                                                              Professor Ferguson and Imperial College have now dropped their Corona virus death prediction for the UK from 500,000 to 20,000 to todays prediction of 5,700.


Three weeks later, death toll in UK is almost 3 times the amount Professor Ferguson predicted for the overall crisis that may last for years.


I'm very confident we'll have less Corona virus deaths in the UK than the average 17,000 deaths per year from Flu here.

I'm also confident you'll have less Corona virus deaths in the USA than the average 36,000 deaths per year from Flu there.

In 6 months everyone will be scratching their heads wondering what all the panic/bedwetting was about..of course our economy will be in meltdown by then.

In less of a month of when that post was made, USA and UK will pass those numbers.


By the end of February 19 million people had been infected with the good ole common flu in the USA this flu season.

Out of those 180,000 had been hospitalized and over 10,000 had died.

As of today 48 people have died of Coronavirus in the USA ..spot the difference ?


5 weeks later we now have under 678,210 recorded coronavirus infections in the USA with over 34,000 dead. There will be many more recorded deaths from that 678K since 85% of them are still battling the infections. There also will be more deaths from future new infections. It's going to be an ongoing process. I'm sure there will also be death by suicide and domestic violence since some people aren't going to like the changes in their lives.


36,000 people die annually on average in the USA with Flu..yet no-one says anything about that.

50 people die of Corona virus and it's a national emergency.


That post was made 5 weeks ago. Only 50 deaths after America's first case showed up in January. Even with slowing the spread, we see what exponential growth can do in a month. Guess how bad it would be if we didn't take action? Does anybody want to see what a 2nd month's exponential growth will look like if we didn't take massive action? If leaders act even a week or two late to stop an outbreak, it can cause a massive of loss of lives.


BC, you're going to love this video showing right wingers being wrong, including doctors. Fortunately Trump had better medical and science experts advising him so that he acted in January when the people in the video below were clueless in February and even into March.

 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAh4uS4f78o






Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 17, 2020, 10:08:54 AM
"You imagine yourself as a clairvoyant.  To me you are as blind as a Wuhan bat.  "



a blind wuhan bat
can “see” an insect dinner the size of a grain of rice from over 30 feet away
on a pitch black night 20 feet up in the air
and snatch it out of the sky
in less than a second...

I don’t know of any rednecks in Florida or any other ex-confederacy state that can do that...

that bible you keep in the nightstand
tells you everything you need to know about your future
in the Book of Daniel...

after the 4th Corona peak, your country will be destroyed...
you will see a year from now
that the “end times” of your country is not very far off

I told ya’ll TWO YEARS AGO on this board, go back and check my posts if you doubt the veracity of what I’m saying
but I told ya’ll two years ago, you’d be drinking the Kool-Aid

AND YA ARE!!!!
here’s the pic
just like this blind as a wuhan bat told ya!!

so which one of us is ACTUALLY blind?
cuz I saw this two years ago...
and what I see now is that something MUCH WORSE is coming....

seriously, read what happened to Babylon in the Book of Daniel...
extrapolate to the current time period
and this is EXACTLY where America is today
the new Babylon

and Babylon, she gonna gonna fall mon...


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 17, 2020, 12:33:42 PM
...I tentatively support the protests, and the perspective.  With the upcoming changes in society, including masks, and social distancing,, no shaking hands, I support beginning to reopen to a point. It has been so nice though to have no traffic, but I guess it won't last much longer.

Closed a deal in La Jolla Wednesday morning and traffic to-fro was not as wide open than when I was in San Diego +/- 2 weeks ago. I had to visit another project in Riverside this morning and traffic is starting to get heavy again, much heavier than Wednesday, though not anywhere near as jammed prior to lockdown.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on April 17, 2020, 12:49:02 PM
a blind wuhan bat
can “see” an insect dinner the size of a grain of rice from over 30 feet away
on a pitch black night 20 feet up in the air
and snatch it out of the sky
in less than a second...
I don’t know of any rednecks in Florida or any other ex-confederacy state that can do that...
Oh hell--I can shoot the pecker off a baby flea from twice that far.

As of today---
CHINA...CASES 82,692
DEATHS...4632
RECOVERED...77,944
LEAVES...116 active cases

USA...CASES 690,900

DEATHS...35,955
RECOVERED...58,263
LEAVES...596,682 active cases
OTHER COUNTRIES & INFO---
http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

The numbers seem right there?
 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 17, 2020, 01:03:21 PM
The numbers seem right there?
 

Yes the numbers are right! America will end up with the highest numbers of infections and deaths but we will be THE go to country to help other nations with their financial crisis and fight against the virus. We will end up being the sickest nation but the healthiest to help others. Go figure.

In other news the coronavirus will improve lives! Democrats get their wish with prisoners getting released. Because the requirement is a prisoner has to have committed a non violent crime, everybody the Democrats despise such as corporate millionaires are going to be released. They will be released just in time to donate to the Trump re-election campaign. Here's another favorite.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/michael-cohen-will-be-released-from-prison-due-to-pandemic/ar-BB12KsDE?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 17, 2020, 01:43:26 PM
"Oh hell--I can shoot the pecker off a baby flea from twice that far."

mighty big talk...
but can you do it for a moving insect in total darkness, while the insect is flying in one direction and you're flying in another?
if not, then sorry, you're just an average redneck...
not impressed

howza that wall comin of yurs pardner?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on April 17, 2020, 02:18:57 PM
“Everyone hurry to church, read the Psalms, the Gospel, embrace one another,” Metropolitan Pavel, the monastery’s head, instructed in a video in mid-March.

“The most terrible epidemic is the sin that destroys human nature,” he added.

Three weeks later, Metropolitan Pavel told the Reuters news agency that he originally did not appreciate the seriousness of the situation. The monastery has since introduced strict quarantine measures.

Still, Kyiv officials say more than 140 monks and others at the monastery have tested positive for the novel coronavirus, and at least three have died. By comparison, Kyiv has registered more than 700 cases and 12 fatalities, and Ukraine as a whole has more than 4,660 cases and 125 deaths.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/a-monastery-in-ukraine-once-scoffed-at-coronavirus-measures-now-it-is-a-hot-spot/2020/04/16/265eef7e-7fdd-11ea-84c2-0792d8591911_story.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on April 17, 2020, 02:31:41 PM
mighty big talk...
YUP...now that's mighty big talk for ya'.
Quote
if not, then sorry, you're just an average redneck...
I resemble that remark. I'll have you know I am an above average redneck.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 17, 2020, 05:17:36 PM
"I'll have you know I am an above average redneck. "

I assume that means you spell "dog" as d-o-g, and not d-a-w-g...
impressive...
cuz that would mean you're an intellectual in some trailer parks in Texas
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 17, 2020, 06:03:06 PM
I tend to be more of a cup is half full type of guy.  Therefore, I see a benefit from the situation we have faced and are facing.

The one huge benefit of Covid-19 is that it woke all of us up to the potential of a pandemic, without the devastation of the spanish flu or the black plague.

China went through their moment with SARS in 2012.  Because of it, even though the reported numbers are questionable, they have been able to contain this outbreak.

South Korea went through the MERS outbreak in 2016, which lead them to rapidly respond to Covid-19 and contain it.

In Jan/Feb and even March, most compared Covid-19 to the cold or flu and didn't pay much attention to it.  Now we hopefully will be much better prepared to respond to the next viral outbreak.  There are still deniers out there, but the majority should be able to handle the situation properly next time (fingers crossed).


EDIT:  Typos and such.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on April 17, 2020, 06:40:59 PM
By now we are benumbed by the all-pervasive arguments over relaxing workplace shutdowns and stay-at-home orders due to coronavirus. In any sane society, the issue would be how to institute the most efficient measures to defeat the pandemic in the shortest time and with the lowest loss of life. Instead, Trump and his merry band of lunatics have hijacked the national debate into a faux-serious discussion of when, oh, please, how soon, can we “reopen the economy?” Naturally, the media gamely continue to play along with this calculated bit of dezinformatsiya.

It is now long past time to cast off highfalutin’ Latinisms and simply call the Republicans and their religious and secular conservative allies what they are, and in unadorned English: a death cult. As the country reels from the coronavirus pandemic, our national government might just as well be run by the infamous People’s Temple of Jonestown.

There is no longer the slightest doubt in any sane person’s mind that not only are the GOP’s fundamentalist-extremist religious allies a death cult disguised as 501(c)3 tax-exempt charitable organizations. The whole extremely well-funded edifice of “economic conservatism” is equally a death cult, worshiping Mammon so fervently that it is eager to make human sacrifice upon its altar, just like the Mayans and Carthaginians.

“¡Viva la Muerte!”

“Long live death!” That was the defiant cry of José Millán-Astray y Terreros, a general in Francisco Franco’s fascist army during the Spanish civil war. It could just as well suit Trump’s foot soldiers.

http://www.alternet.org/2020/04/the-gop-has-become-a-death-cult/
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on April 17, 2020, 07:33:06 PM
Holy Smoke, Grumpy!

Do you actually believe that stuff?   Most of the Republicans I know are beer drinkers.   The number of 'Born Again' evangelists that reside in Iowa has got to be in the single digit percentiles.   I read that article you posted and it scared the sh&t out of me - that someone would actually believe what was written.

Where you live, and where I grew up, the propensity of Republicans is either small business owners or redneck deplorables (as Hillary called 'em).   But in either case, they don't practice suicide as your article claims.   No matter where you are, there are going to be some weirdos.   But it is also the case for the far left.   

We'll all get through this.  I think the time for politics is not yet.   First we gotta beat the stuffing out of this virus.   Then we can take up our causes again.   In the meanwhile, the best to you and your family.   Stay safe.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 17, 2020, 07:41:22 PM
As predicted, many are going to stubbornly ignore that Donald said re-openings will be up to governors.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on April 17, 2020, 08:52:55 PM
SHEEEEEEET!!!!!!!!!!!
Local news reports major outbreak in packinghouse 10 miles from my home! )(*&^%$#@!!!!!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 18, 2020, 12:07:37 AM
Gator suggested I was 'politicising' this pandemic by pointing out the howlers of 'Trampu' ( re not locking down earlier )


Now we see 'Trampu' is suggesting some states  lockdowns are too 'harsh' ...  but he only chose to point out the Democratic run ones ...  :wallbash:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52330531 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52330531)

Demonstrations calling on authorities to end the shutdown have occurred in Michigan, Ohio, North Carolina, Minnesota, Utah, Virginia and Kentucky.

The states Mr Trump referred to in Friday's tweets are all led by Democrats. Ohio and Utah, which he did not mention, have Republican governors
.



Why is 'Trampu' even still allowed to tweet ?  He should be locked up in a loonie bin, for his thoughtless brain farts
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 18, 2020, 12:47:41 AM
We'll all get through this.  I think the time for politics is not yet.   First we gotta beat the stuffing out of this virus.   Then we can take up our causes again.   In the meanwhile, the best to you and your family.   Stay safe.

Jone,

Really?  We're going to beat the stuffing out of it?

http://www.vox.com/2020/4/17/21223915/coronavirus-germany-france-cases-death-rate

We didn't get it right in the beginning, are paying dearly and not even getting it right in the end as far as the US is concerned.  Trump now has his fallback position and can just point the finger of blame for the aftermath at state governors.  Sure prez, keep encouraging flag-waving idiots to not follow the rulez and pressure states to open the floodgates. Go ahead, replace the 'we' with 'me' again.  Trump is as desperate as he sounds with November getting nearer.

Open beaches Florida! let's get this virus moving! Let's pray this thing away with filled pews and take home the 'spirit' with us. Open bars folks! We can't trust you to drive but sure, keep social distance even at 2.0!  Lets party!

We're not even over the infection 'hump' and declaring victory with a back to work slogan that is right in one part, the 'Again' at the end that is practically inevitable.  We have steadily more infections per day than the next 10 ranking countries put together Tomorrow will be 11, maybe more. - think about that.  Yeah, we're winning for sure!

When will we realize that none of us is safe until NYC and other hotspots are safe?

SO SAD
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on April 18, 2020, 01:54:16 AM
Jone,

Really?  We're going to beat the stuffing out of it?

http://www.vox.com/2020/4/17/21223915/coronavirus-germany-france-cases-death-rate

We didn't get it right in the beginning, are paying dearly and not even getting it right in the end as far as the US is concerned.  Trump now has his fallback position and can just point the finger of blame for the aftermath at state governors.  Sure prez, keep encouraging flag-waving idiots to not follow the rulez and pressure states to open the floodgates. Go ahead, replace the 'we' with 'me' again.  Trump is as desperate as he sounds with November getting nearer.

Open beaches Florida! let's get this virus moving! Let's pray this thing away with filled pews and take home the 'spirit' with us. Open bars folks! We can't trust you to drive but sure, keep social distance even at 2.0!  Lets party!

We're not even over the infection 'hump' and declaring victory with a back to work slogan that is right in one part, the 'Again' at the end that is practically inevitable.  We have steadily more infections per day than the next 10 ranking countries put together Tomorrow will be 11, maybe more. - think about that.  Yeah, we're winning for sure!

When will we realize that none of us is safe until NYC and other hotspots are safe?

SO SAD

We gotta beat the stuffing out of it.  You didn't particularly care for the situation whereby I misquoted you.

In other words, we have to do whatever we have to do to win against this virus.   Not what you said or alluded to what I said.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 18, 2020, 01:55:27 AM
Still, Kyiv officials say more than 140 monks and others at the monastery have tested positive for the novel coronavirus, and at least three have died. By comparison, Kyiv has registered more than 700 cases and 12 fatalities, and Ukraine as a whole has more than 4,660 cases and 125 deaths.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/a-monastery-in-ukraine-once-scoffed-at-coronavirus-measures-now-it-is-a-hot-spot/2020/04/16/265eef7e-7fdd-11ea-84c2-0792d8591911_story.html

Ukraine is an interesting case. They started their lockdown a lot earlier along their curve than what most of Europe did. Theoretically Ukraine along with Russia and most of Eastern Europe got cases of Coronavirus appear later than Western Europe, assuming cases were being counted correctly enough. So while we in the UK & US were about 2-3 weeks behind mainland Europe and had the heads up from them on how it might be better handled Ukraine is about 2-3 weeks behind us so has even more of a time advantage on this.

So they have had more breathing space to prepare for it and heads up on how it might best be tackled. So much easier for them to go into lockdown earlier along the curve than mainland western Europe. I think here in the UK we could have gone into lockdown sooner since Italy had done so. It does take time to notify businesses and prepare society & the economy but I think we spent time fumbling around for a correct response to the virus. I'm not sure we got it quite right as I think apart from locking down sooner that other than gyms, restaurants, etc closing we should have kept more businesses operating but just introduced strict social distancing measures as specified by the government for them and instead banned the one exercise a day. I fear that we may have done too much damage to our economy as a result of shutting too many businesses where we may need not have done so. That is something we may face as a major economic problem in the future along with other west European nations.

Ukraine meanwhile while they may have a better take on dealing with the whole Corona virus problem a question mark remains over the impact on their economy. While they are getting loans in from Germany, Europe, IMF, etc these loans are going to have to be paid back. On a poorer nation a lockdown that is likely to last just about as long as in the west could have a heavier impact. Ukrainians that have been working in Poland sending money home are no longer getting that better money and are now home out of work. While others are out of work after businesses have been shuttered. Even after many countries lift their lockdowns travel between countries may be restricted for quite some time.

If Ukraine has flattened the curve early then they could end up coming out of this about the same time we do, will just have to wait and see on that one I reckon.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 18, 2020, 02:15:03 AM
We gotta beat the stuffing out of it.  You didn't particularly care for the situation whereby I misquoted you.

In other words, we have to do whatever we have to do to win against this virus.   Not what you said or alluded to what I said.

Indeed, apologies for that misquote. Haste makes waste, cleaning garage today.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 18, 2020, 04:07:38 AM
Now we hopefully will be much better prepared to respond to the next viral outbreak.  There are still deniers out there, but the majority should be able to handle the situation properly next time (fingers crossed).

Good point.  We were not fully prepared for COVID.  Nor was the world.  Changes coming, some dramatic. But first....let's knock out this particular virulence. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 18, 2020, 04:25:10 AM

Demonstrations calling on authorities to end the shutdown have occurred in Michigan, Ohio, North Carolina, Minnesota, Utah, Virginia and Kentucky.

The states Mr Trump referred to in Friday's tweets are all led by Democrats. Ohio and Utah, which he did not mention, have Republican governors
.

You should read about some of the activities shut down in Michigan.  People can not buy seeds for their gardens, and can not go to their dacha.

I believe Trump responded only where protests were held.  Many of those locked down in areas with few cases of COVID are losing their patience as their businesses evaporate.   

Still, Trump should let the Governors take the lead, and his tweets undermine them. 





Why is 'Trampu' even still allowed to tweet ?  He should be locked up in a loonie bin, for his thoughtless brain farts
[/quote]
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 18, 2020, 04:36:12 AM
Plenty of seeds for gardens on amazon.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 18, 2020, 04:48:45 AM
You should read about some of the activities shut down in Michigan.  People can not buy seeds for their gardens, and can not go to their dacha.

It's a lockdown .. those things are 'essential' ?   Govt ministers in Scotland were asked to resign for asking folks to 'stay at home' and then going to their 'Dacha'

I believe Trump responded only where protests were held.  Many of those locked down in areas with few cases of COVID are losing their patience as their businesses evaporate.   

Do these people not realise we're all in this together ?


Still, Trump should let the Governors take the lead, and his tweets undermine them. 

Agreed... But you didn't comment on Trampu' being selective as to who he criticised ..Politicising ..something you objected to !  ..





Why is 'Trampu' even still allowed to tweet ?  He should be locked up in a loonie bin, for his thoughtless brain farts
[/quote]
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 18, 2020, 04:49:31 AM
Jone,

Really?  We're going to beat the stuffing out of it?

http://www.vox.com/2020/4/17/21223915/coronavirus-germany-france-cases-death-rate

We didn't get it right in the beginning, are paying dearly and not even getting it right in the end as far as the US is concerned.  Trump now has his fallback position and can just point the finger of blame for the aftermath at state governors.  Sure prez, keep encouraging flag-waving idiots to not follow the rulez and pressure states to open the floodgates. Go ahead, replace the 'we' with 'me' again.  Trump is as desperate as he sounds with November getting nearer.

Open beaches Florida! let's get this virus moving! Let's pray this thing away with filled pews and take home the 'spirit' with us. Open bars folks! We can't trust you to drive but sure, keep social distance even at 2.0!  Lets party!

We're not even over the infection 'hump' and declaring victory with a back to work slogan that is right in one part, the 'Again' at the end that is practically inevitable.  We have steadily more infections per day than the next 10 ranking countries put together Tomorrow will be 11, maybe more. - think about that.  Yeah, we're winning for sure!

When will we realize that none of us is safe until NYC and other hotspots are safe?

SO SAD

I do understand your POV. I expect living in a hot spot certainly shapes that view. Nothing to substantiate this number but I am guessing 75-80% of the country (US) is not in a hot spot. Those flag waving idiots to which you refer are at this point just regular people of which whom many have not been able to work in now 5 weeks or more. Believe it or not, most of these people live paycheck to paycheck. The $1200 bucks helps very little. They're worried, tired, broke, deflated and hungry for food and more.

Business will take care of business given the green light to pursue, especially in the areas where infections are low. Distancing and other precautions can be observed while business and commerce is allowed to go. This isn't an "all or nothing" adventure IMO
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 18, 2020, 04:57:18 AM
The point is this IS an all or nothing 'adventure' as you'll soon enough BE a hotspot by carrying on as normal ...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 18, 2020, 04:58:55 AM
The point is this IS an all or nothing 'adventure' as you'll soon enough BE a hotspot by carrying on as normal ...

You have been wrong on every opinion you've ever stated on these boards. Now is no different
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 18, 2020, 05:04:24 AM
You have been wrong on every opinion you've ever stated on these boards. Now is no different

So you keep trying to tell anyone who'll 'listen' and 'believe' you ..

Please state nations refusing to lockdown that have lower rates of infection / deaths than their neighbours ( other than Belarus ! )



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 18, 2020, 05:07:55 AM
So you keep trying to tell anyone who'll 'listen' and 'believe' you ..

Please state nations refusing to lockdown that have lower rates of infection / deaths than their neighbours ( other than Belarus ! )

As expected more deflection from the resident moron. If you state an opinion I'd advise anyone reading it to do exactly the opposite. Please do point out where I mentioned anything related to rates of infection/death vs neighbors?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 18, 2020, 05:14:39 AM
The resident 'moron' was NOT deflecting .. simply trying to get you to join in a discussion with actual facts ...  you know .. to support your assertion ..

So, the question remains ...  take your time.. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 18, 2020, 05:23:44 AM
The resident 'moron' was NOT deflecting .. simply trying to get you to join in a discussion with actual facts ...  you know .. to support your assertion ..

So, the question remains ...  take your time..

I have no desire to engage in discussion with a moron. You're too predictable, always wrong and feeble minded and incapable of an intellectual discourse. You made that strawman, now attack it all you wish
Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 18, 2020, 05:41:40 AM
I have no desire to engage in discussion with a moron.

Just to troll an assertion by yours truly, that CAN be backed up, 'name call' and offer NO ( valid) counter ...




Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 18, 2020, 05:47:43 AM
Just to troll an assertion by yours truly, that CAN be backed up, 'name call' and offer NO ( valid) counter ...

That's your strawman fallacy. Have at it and back it up all you wish.
Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 18, 2020, 05:52:52 AM
 'strawman'  .. "intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument."

You posted no 'argument' - you trolled mine ..
Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 18, 2020, 05:54:50 AM
I do understand your POV. I expect living in a hot spot certainly shapes that view. Nothing to substantiate this number but I am guessing 75-80% of the country (US) is not in a hot spot. Those flag waving idiots to which you refer are at this point just regular people of which whom many have not been able to work in now 5 weeks or more. Believe it or not, most of these people live paycheck to paycheck. The $1200 bucks helps very little. They're worried, tired, broke, deflated and hungry for food and more.

Business will take care of business given the green light to pursue, especially in the areas where infections are low. Distancing and other precautions can be observed while business and commerce is allowed to go. This isn't an "all or nothing" adventure IMO

FP, yes living in a hotspot does make the virus very 'live' and near.  According to some sentiments here, the paycheck to paycheck, payday loan crowd is well just that, nothing to worry too awful much about.  I say economic support should have been given from the bottom up to workers and small businesses first.  Big Biz can take care of itself.  Boeing can and should restructure, happens all the time. 17 Billion can feed and support a lot of these people who really need it and help the economy at the same time, instead of effectively paying for its mistakes and buybacks.  Airlines can restructure as well, for the better.  It will be a long time before all those unused planes are flying and even 58 Billion ain't going to be enough.  Want to buy a 737Max cheap? They can hardly give 'em away at cost.  Why support a lost cause for nought?

We are again protecting the top, leaving our most vulnerable behind for at least a couple years to come.  Some here seem to take the position that we should not give too much lest they get lazy and stick their noses up at low wages.  God forbid someone can survive on one job alone.

Every economic crisis results in companies slimming down, finding new ways to work more with less.  We are learning to work from home now, without offices and commutes.  Office space for rent?  Bad luck.  Gas station? Bad luck.  Three cars? what for and on and on.  I get the feeling unemployment is here to stay again for a long while.

One thing is sure, this itty bitty virus has brought all our little hidden defects to the forefront.

Little rant over :)
Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 18, 2020, 06:23:51 AM
The Far Right groups getting involved in protests against lockdowns

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/17/far-right-coronavirus-protests-restrictions (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/17/far-right-coronavirus-protests-restrictions)


Protesters in Michigan and other states claim to speak for ordinary citizens, but are also supported by street-fighting far-right groups
Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 18, 2020, 06:26:37 AM
According to some sentiments here, the paycheck to paycheck, payday loan crowd is well just that, nothing to worry too awful much about.
 

Here I'll have to disagree with you. Many to most are not necessarily the payday loan crowd but honest folks working for an honest day's pay. Even in small business often there are many more Indians than Chiefs. Literally hundreds of 1000's of small business are going tits up with no end in sight. The Chiefs and the Indians of small business are left without a way to continue to make a living. Why at this point is purely political but that's a conversation for another day.

 
Quote
I say economic support should have been given from the bottom up to workers and small businesses first.  Big Biz can take care of itself.  Boeing can and should restructure, happens all the time. 17 Billion can feed and support a lot of these people who really need it and help the economy at the same time, instead of effectively paying for its mistakes and buybacks.  Airlines can restructure as well, for the better.  It will be a long time before all those unused planes are flying and even 58 Billion ain't going to be enough.  Want to buy a 737Max cheap? They can hardly give 'em away at cost.  Why support a lost cause for nought?

Here I agree with you but appreciate it or not, the Boeings of the world employ a lot of Indians. Denying them is the same as denying small business

Quote
We are again protecting the top, leaving our most vulnerable behind for at least a couple years to come.  Some here seem to take the position that we should not give too much lest they get lazy and stick their noses up at low wages.  God forbid someone can survive on one job alone.

Every economic crisis results in companies slimming down, finding new ways to work more with less.  We are learning to work from home now, without offices and commutes.  Office space for rent?  Bad luck.  Gas station? Bad luck.  Three cars? what for and on and on.  I get the feeling unemployment is here to stay again for a long while.

One thing is sure, this itty bitty virus has brought all our little hidden defects to the forefront.

Little rant over :)


That is a theory. One problem with it is not everyone can work from home. Mostly the service industry, the clerks and owners of the small shops and small business comprises of the 25-30% of record unemployment we are witnessing now. My point is, folks want and need to get back to work. Many paycheck to paycheck people Americans don't want to be on the dole. Staying in lock down for areas that can loosen up is akin to throwing the baby out with the bath water. Normal? I don't think normal as we knew it is years if ever, to return. We can however  in many areas begin to allow business to return and take care of business. If allowed to, it will do so IMHO


The point is this IS an all or nothing 'adventure' as you'll soon enough BE a hotspot by carrying on as normal ...

This is you trolling me moron. Your need for attention knows no bounds. I was not surprised you Googled strawman fallacy and still failed to comprehend what you read and how it applies to you.
Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 18, 2020, 06:34:53 AM
 
This is you trolling me moron.

Says the guy who started off the day with a drive-by troll ..  You know where this exchange is going ...but you just can't help yourself.

Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 18, 2020, 06:46:28 AM
Says the guy who started off the day with a drive-by troll ..  You know where this exchange is going ...but you just can't help yourself.

Attack it little man. Attack

 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on April 18, 2020, 07:31:55 AM
http://www.liveleak.com/view?t=9laZo_1586643988

Ambulances queuing outside Moscow hospital overwhelmed with covid19 patients
"Russia was long spared but it looks like #COVID19 is starting to get out of control in Moscow. This is a an infectious disease hospital getting overstretched by people suffering from the virus"
Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 18, 2020, 09:56:36 AM
Caution!!
goats are loose and attacking Moby their favorite target, cuz he's British and has a typical British demeanor...

I on the other hand, DO NOT....
I rescued my cousins in Rochdale from a gang by giving their leaders an ass kicking that landed me in trouble with the local constabulary, because I tend to fight rather viciously and I'm VERY good at it
because I was a foreigner I was able to easily slip away from the Bobbies
I ain't afraid to fight, in fact just the opposite
so if there's any dumb ass here who wants to take me on, then step right up, I'm your huckleberry!!


Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on April 18, 2020, 10:12:58 AM



I generally dislike Bill Maher but he nailed it


http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=264&v=UcvIQJ-QurQ&feature=emb_logo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=264&v=UcvIQJ-QurQ&feature=emb_logo)
Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on April 18, 2020, 11:56:53 AM
FP, yes living in a hotspot does make the virus very 'live' and near.  According to some sentiments here, the paycheck to paycheck, payday loan crowd is well just that, nothing to worry too awful much about.  I say economic support should have been given from the bottom up to workers and small businesses first.  Big Biz can take care of itself.  Boeing can and should restructure, happens all the time. 17 Billion can feed and support a lot of these people who really need it and help the economy at the same time, instead of effectively paying for its mistakes and buybacks.  Airlines can restructure as well, for the better.  It will be a long time before all those unused planes are flying and even 58 Billion ain't going to be enough.  Want to buy a 737Max cheap? They can hardly give 'em away at cost.  Why support a lost cause for nought?

We are again protecting the top, leaving our most vulnerable behind for at least a couple years to come.  Some here seem to take the position that we should not give too much lest they get lazy and stick their noses up at low wages.  God forbid someone can survive on one job alone.

Every economic crisis results in companies slimming down, finding new ways to work more with less.  We are learning to work from home now, without offices and commutes.  Office space for rent?  Bad luck.  Gas station? Bad luck.  Three cars? what for and on and on.  I get the feeling unemployment is here to stay again for a long while.

One thing is sure, this itty bitty virus has brought all our little hidden defects to the forefront.

Little rant over :)

+1 BC

We've been moving quite rapidly towards a working climate that is decentralized.  I think this event accelerates this happening.   
Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 18, 2020, 12:40:28 PM
"We've been moving quite rapidly towards a working climate that is decentralized."

naaaa we ain't
cuz after 2024 whatever's left of the USA will head towards full state-run socialism as fast as it can :crackwhip:
after next year the virus is gonna be the main fuel of class warfare in the USA
next summer the smoke is gonna get in your eyes

I will either be livin large in the forest surrounded by death traps of various kinds (shown here without camo netting to be invisible from ground and air)
or some so called elitny apartment in Skolkovo freezing my ass off

I'm planning on fire-proofing my roof and adding sprinkler systems on both floors during the off peak season, whenever that will be...
but even with a brick house I still don't plan on my family dying trying to defend it or the neighborhood...
so I'll evacuate them to the hidden tree house in the forest behind my house
while I fight a rear-guard action to protect their withdrawal
and then I come back to pick them off one-by-one

you can see a bit of "my forest of death" in background of my garden to feed kids pets

Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 18, 2020, 01:12:28 PM
Caution!!
goats are loose and attacking Moby their favorite target, cuz he's British and has a typical British demeanor...

I on the other hand, DO NOT....
I rescued my cousins in Rochdale from a gang by giving their leaders an ass kicking that landed me in trouble with the local constabulary, because I tend to fight rather viciously and I'm VERY good at it
because I was a foreigner I was able to easily slip away from the Bobbies
I ain't afraid to fight, in fact just the opposite
so if there's any dumb ass here who wants to take me on, then step right up, I'm your huckleberry!!


Good evening, Krimster !

Thank for 'having my back' ..  :ROFL:


To me a 'G.O.A.T' is the Greatest ( racing driver) of all time ..   Most of the candidates are Brits... other than Fangio, Senna, Shumacher, Villeneuve, Fittipaldi, Prost and Lauda .. ( may be Mario Andretti ? )

Nashe kozi ni ponyil , mozhet bit ?

Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 18, 2020, 01:22:09 PM
spossiba moy droog

Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 18, 2020, 01:22:40 PM
this is the story of all about how
I ended up in an apocalypse now!!!

so...
in 2020 we had 3 peaks
peak 1 killed over 100,000
and when Republicans forced poor people back to work in May
we started a second peak 2 weeks later, but this one only went to about 70,000 people who were "as dead as a door nail" this time

the third peak was the worst, it started at the end of September in parallel with flu season
it was more than twice as long and twice as intense as the first peak
and killed about 500,000... there were mass graves everywhere until such reporting was banned

and because every single one of the 50 million US citizens who had the flu
thought they had Corona, as a consequence of that...
the US health care system crashed completely before they were halfway through the flu season
from the onslaught of both viruses simultaneously that created a perfect storm
a giant tsunami so big no one could ever imagine the size of it...
which also led to hundreds or perhaps thousands of deaths every day, even celebrities
from conditions that were normally medically treatable when the system was functioning...

and this was just year one....
what was left of the economy was left to face peak #4 in 2022 in year 2...
guess how many more years the USA lasts after that...
by lasts, I mean how much longer before no one gets their social security checks, or any mail at all any more...

do you rednecks really want to know, or do you prefer to live in denial?

the difference between me and you guys
was I was able to do the "when you can snatch the pebble from my hand"
first gawd damned try!!!  shoulda seen the freakin look on his face!!!
hahahahaha!!
volshebnick baby
just like the Jesuits trained "theirs"
Lubavitch always took mischlings like me for this, we're a special caste
Kabbalah numerologist/cryptologist and sometimes killer (hence I must be non-kosher to begin with, thus a mischling with a goy muter, cuz that's the rule)
when the apocalypse kicks in full
I will be free as a bird with absolutely no oversight by ANYONE, OMG!!!
and you are all little lambs to me
your fleece as white as snow
delicious...
hahahaha

DvaNosh Grozny


Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 18, 2020, 01:24:37 PM
Still, Trump should let the Governors take the lead, and his tweets undermine them. 


When this crisis started, liberals asked why didn't Trump lock down the whole nation. They said many people will die because of his blunder and Trump got the blame for what was happening in NY. Trump allowed the governors and local leaders make their own decisions. Now that some areas in America are showing improvement and Trump wants to get the States off federal government welfare, the liberals are complaining Trump wants to make all the decisions when the the governors have rights to make the decisions in their States. Go figure.


Why is 'Trampu' even still allowed to tweet ?  He should be locked up in a loonie bin, for his thoughtless brain farts


Who's going to stop him? When Reagan couldn't push his policies in Congress, he went on tv a lot to sell his ideas to the American public which in turned, call their local politicians to accept Reagan's policies. Obviously the media wasn't going to help Reagan so he addressed the nation on tv when he felt a need to tell his side of the story. Reagan has been nicknamed "The Great Communicator" and he will be remember in history as so. What will Trump be remembered as? The Great Tweeter?


http://www.liveleak.com/view?t=9laZo_1586643988

Ambulances queuing outside Moscow hospital overwhelmed with covid19 patients
"Russia was long spared but it looks like #COVID19 is starting to get out of control in Moscow. This is a an infectious disease hospital getting overstretched by people suffering from the virus"


Don't worry. The Russian government has a plan to keep the number of infections and deaths low. You will read about the low numbers in the reports they send to WHO.
Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 18, 2020, 01:41:11 PM
I do understand your POV. I expect living in a hot spot certainly shapes that view. Nothing to substantiate this number but I am guessing 75-80% of the country (US) is not in a hot spot. Those flag waving idiots to which you refer are at this point just regular people of which whom many have not been able to work in now 5 weeks or more. Believe it or not, most of these people live paycheck to paycheck. The $1200 bucks helps very little. They're worried, tired, broke, deflated and hungry for food and more.

Business will take care of business given the green light to pursue, especially in the areas where infections are low. Distancing and other precautions can be observed while business and commerce is allowed to go. This isn't an "all or nothing" adventure IMO

This is the trap, isn't it?  Because infections are low, ppl assume the lockdown is a harsh measure, an overreaction.  They don't understand or appreciate that they are not a hot spot Because of the lockdown.   

When the lockdown is lifted, or if there was no lockdown, they become a hot spot.  Then ppl understand how serious this is because they experience it first hand, but it's too late.


Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 18, 2020, 01:46:18 PM
Sill BillyB is responding to ME .. not Gator .. ;)


Who's going to stop him? When Reagan couldn't push his policies in Congress, he went on tv a lot to sell his ideas to the American public which in turned, call their local politicians to accept Reagan's policies. Obviously the media wasn't going to help Reagan so he addressed the nation on tv when he felt a need to tell his side of the story. Reagan has been nicknamed "The Great Communicator" and he will be remember in history as so. What will Trump be remembered as? The Great Tweeter?



Give me Ronny Raygun over this imbecile bord with a silver spoon in his gob (and no manners), any day ..
Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 18, 2020, 02:37:32 PM
This is the trap, isn't it?  Because infections are low, ppl assume the lockdown is a harsh measure, an overreaction.  They don't understand or appreciate that they are not a hot spot Because of the lockdown.   

Not the way I see it. The lock down was needed in many places but, maybe it's served it's purpose? The healthcare system while still busy is far from overloaded. People are learning, taking precautions. Yeah people need and want to get back to work. The PPP and the $1200 stimulus is only going so far.  If everyone remains holed up, what next? Free money isn't going to fuel the economic engine IMO, it's going to take commerce on all levels. Business will take care of business given the opportunity


Quote
When the lockdown is lifted, or if there was no lockdown, they become a hot spot.  Then ppl understand how serious this is because they experience it first hand, but it's too late.

They've already experienced it first hand, no? There have been numerous states that didn't have a lock down and are not a hot spot. The medical community is going to get a firm grip on this virus. Do you suggest everyone sit home until they do?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 18, 2020, 02:51:19 PM
Guys I wouldn't bother wasting good time arguing with that fool Moby, he's proved his stupidity countless times to show that he's not worth our while. Maybe we should have a quarentine area in this forum, a little exclamation mark could pop up everytime he wishes to comment and the we could click on it to decide whether we wish to let him comment or not ;D


Anyway, an article out today about this virus seemingly having a higher mortality rate among black African and other ethnic groups:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52338101

Early in this thread I raised the idea that this might possibly be the case and it looks that it could be true.

Looks like Coronavirus is picking up in Africa at the moment and sh*t is already hitting the fan out there:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/11427602/riots-looting-cape-town-coronavirus/amp/


Meanwhile here it looks like we are getting towards the peak of this virus, the first wave at least, 15,000 deaths and it will likely away in the coming days. More will clock up over time but all in all we're getting past the worst of it for the time being.

More pessimistic is the economic outlook. Unless we're lucky and things unexpectedly pick up after this, which can of course happen we could be amount to experience one hell of a global recession.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on April 18, 2020, 03:28:50 PM
(http://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/i9HWOxaMBafk/v0/480x-1.jpg)
Carnival Executives Knew They Had a Virus Problem, But Kept the Party Going

 More than 1,500 people on the company’s cruise ships have been diagnosed with Covid-19, and dozens have died.

By Austin Carr and Chris Palmeri....
http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-carnival-cruise-coronavirus/?utm_source=pocket-newtab (http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-carnival-cruise-coronavirus/?utm_source=pocket-newtab)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 18, 2020, 04:28:37 PM
Just based on the health experience going back 50 years or so, I would never go on a cruise ship tour at any time.

Only idiots continue to go.
Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 18, 2020, 05:01:37 PM

They've already experienced it first hand, no? There have been numerous states that didn't have a lock down and are not a hot spot. The medical community is going to get a firm grip on this virus. Do you suggest everyone sit home until they do?

Interesting point.

Take a look at local news from one of those states, Nebraska:

http://www.3newsnow.com/news/coronavirus/grand-island-is-nebraskas-hot-spot (http://www.3newsnow.com/news/coronavirus/grand-island-is-nebraskas-hot-spot)

There's a graph there, that shows the climb of coronavirus cases since April.  Nebraska had a slow start, but it seems to be starting their curve.

Let's compare the country of Georgia with South Dakota.  Georgia, which has a lockdown, with a population of 3+ million and density of 149 ppl per sq. mile, has 388 cases, 4 deaths, 86 recovered.

South Dakota, that has no lockdown, with a population of almost 900 thousand, with a density of 11.3 ppl per sq. mile, has 1542
cases, 7 deaths, and 552 recovered.


Again, like with the virus outbreak at the start in NY, NJ, MA, no one took it that seriously.  NY's outbreak put a scare in MA, which shut down in March. 

Those 7 states with are just starting their cycle.  Because they don't see it as serious, yet, they are treating it as the same as the lockdown states initially responded.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 18, 2020, 05:32:40 PM
Here is an excellent reason why it's important for government to lock us down before things get out of control exponentially....

As of April 15, Italy has 120 doctors dead from coronavirus. Article below does not include other medical personnel. Ten percent of the infected in the country are doctors, said Italy’s National Federation of Doctors Guilds FNOMCEO. That seems high but if true, that means there are over 17,000 doctors in Italy infected as of today. It's safe to assume, tens of thousands of Italian medical workers are out of the battle and when there is less medical personnel, the chance of patients to die increases.

http://report.az/en/other-countries/italy-loses-120-doctors/

Many of us may go back to work soon but there is a good chance we will be told to stay home again whenever there is a spike in infections where we live.
Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 18, 2020, 06:12:06 PM

Let's compare the country of Georgia with South Dakota.  Georgia, which has a lockdown, with a population of 3+ million and density of 149 ppl per sq. mile, has 388 cases, 4 deaths, 86 recovered.

South Dakota, that has no lockdown, with a population of almost 900 thousand, with a density of 11.3 ppl per sq. mile, has 1542
cases, 7 deaths, and 552 recovered.



Is Georgia isolating and eliminating the disease, or delaying the inevitable?
Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 18, 2020, 06:51:48 PM
Interesting point.

Take a look at local news from one of those states, Nebraska:

http://www.3newsnow.com/news/coronavirus/grand-island-is-nebraskas-hot-spot (http://www.3newsnow.com/news/coronavirus/grand-island-is-nebraskas-hot-spot)

There's a graph there, that shows the climb of coronavirus cases since April.  Nebraska had a slow start, but it seems to be starting their curve.

It's unfortunate. I spent some time in Grand Island a couple of years ago. Are you implying if we don't continue to lock down everywhere will be a hot spot? Nothing I've seen would indicate that. Personally I think we can return to business (note, I'm not saying normal) Normal is likely gone for the foreseeable future or until the medical community has a better grip on the virus

Quote
Let's compare the country of Georgia with South Dakota.  Georgia, which has a lockdown, with a population of 3+ million and density of 149 ppl per sq. mile, has 388 cases, 4 deaths, 86 recovered.

South Dakota, that has no lockdown, with a population of almost 900 thousand, with a density of 11.3 ppl per sq. mile, has 1542
cases, 7 deaths, and 552 recovered.


Again, like with the virus outbreak at the start in NY, NJ, MA, no one took it that seriously.  NY's outbreak put a scare in MA, which shut down in March. 

Those 7 states with are just starting their cycle.  Because they don't see it as serious, yet, they are treating it as the same as the lockdown states initially responded.

I wouldn't think you're comparing apples to apples with that one. Those states that haven't locked down still see it as serious. How could they not? They're taking precautions. Will they have a hot spot? Who knows, it's not a given that they will. We do know I think that a lock down slows it but it doesn't stop it. Do we wait it out another month, two months or 3? People are right now lining up now for free food, depending on the government just to eat. This is after 4 weeks. Do you think it'll improve with 4-8 more weeks of lock down? Everyone that gets it isn't dying and not everyone gets it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 18, 2020, 06:56:41 PM
"I would never go on a cruise ship tour at any time."

isn't the USA just a big cruise ship now?
don't wanna make the numbers look bad
instead we should track the number of people who don't have the virus and announce that
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on April 18, 2020, 07:00:28 PM
"I would never go on a cruise ship tour at any time."

isn't the USA just a big cruise ship now?
don't wanna make the numbers look bad
instead we should track the number of people who don't have the virus and announce that

Have you all noticed that the longer quarantine stays in effect, the whackier some people get?   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 18, 2020, 07:51:04 PM
yeah, at the end of the month, the good ship USS USA will hit a million confirmed cases of corona
that's like 1,000 cruise ships worth
and I'm the "wacky one"
cuz I didn't vote for the guy you voted for
the one who up until the stock market crashed
called it a hoax, because it was threatening his presidential popularity
so now we gotta blame it on China
instead of the guy who basically did nothing when he was warned by his own people MONTHS ago
his response has been perfect, he has praised himself on TV every day
and YOU voted for him
the DEEP SHAME I would feel if I ever did something so Fu$ked up as that
go hang your head in shame all you Trump voters
there is no name I could call you that would be more an insult to the name itself instead of you
because you would be still much less than the worse thing ever
you destroyed your own country with your rancid ignorance
enjoy the kool aid punch bowl when it's your turn
don't worry, the line ahead of you is getting shorter each day
it won't be long now....
time for you top stop hiding under your beds now and go back to normal for the sake of the wealthy class, er I mean country
hahahaha

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 18, 2020, 07:58:34 PM
Have you all noticed that the longer quarantine stays in effect, the whackier some people get?

Something much more terminal than a quarantine has gotten a hold of that boy
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 18, 2020, 08:09:25 PM
this is the reason my Russian nickname is DvaNosh (Two Knife)
these are two cheap, but very high quality steel blades, and I use a diamond dust sharpener

I carry both openly, which is allowed only in Texas, as far as I know
about 10% of white males are also openly carrying blades here
my guess is about 5% concealed carry (but most do it in a very amateurish fashion, if I ever needed to, 5 minutes in a mall, and I could easily steal a gun, and just hope it would be a kind I like)

I have made my own combat style that uses a two blade attack
one blade high
and one low
one for your carotid
and the other one to disembowel
my timed attack, beginning from walking, hands at side
to inflicting both wounds, is just over 2 seconds and gettting better and better with more practice and drills

Title: Re: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on April 18, 2020, 08:35:43 PM
...you can see a bit of "my forest of death" in background of my garden...
 
(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24217.0;attach=38048;image)
We have heard of falling into your own trap...


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 18, 2020, 08:47:41 PM
it's why I practice night running with night vision
I know my position exactly
don't have ant traps yet, though, kids are supposed to help dig em
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 18, 2020, 09:06:50 PM
Jeez, Can 'Trampu' do or say anything more STUPID?
http://metro.co.uk/2020/04/18/donald-trump-supporters-gather-huge-groups-president-tells-defy-lockdown-12575983/ (http://metro.co.uk/2020/04/18/donald-trump-supporters-gather-huge-groups-president-tells-defy-lockdown-12575983/)

Does he seek civil war during a pandemic, now?

He needs to tweet, ," I was just joking" and quick.. :cluebat:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 18, 2020, 09:35:09 PM
I practice night running with night vision
I know my position exactly


Night vision goggles need light to work. You won't be able to run every night.

Jeez, Can 'Trampu' do or say anything more STUPID?
http://metro.co.uk/2020/04/18/donald-trump-supporters-gather-huge-groups-president-tells-defy-lockdown-12575983/ (http://metro.co.uk/2020/04/18/donald-trump-supporters-gather-huge-groups-president-tells-defy-lockdown-12575983/)

Does he seek civil war during a pandemic, now?

He needs to tweet, ," I was just joking" and quick.. :cluebat:

You fall victim to fake news again. Trump is not telling people to defy lockdowns. He tweeted some States need to be liberated due to the stupid governors running the show. Michigan governor banned the sale of seeds and plants at a time a lot of people to spring planting. So while in a store, she allows you to shop for food and go to the pharmacy but you can't buy the seeds and plants in the store. BUT she allows people to buy State lottery tickets and liquor. Go figure. The Virginia governor signed legislation that no longer require voters to show a photo ID prior to casting a ballot. Illegals like to vote for Democrats and basically he made it to where they can do so without fear of getting caught.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: mhr7 on April 18, 2020, 10:56:00 PM
FAKE NEWS FAKE NEWS FAKE NEWS!!!!

The governor of Michigan didn't ban the sale of seeds and plants. Illegals like to vote for Democrats? Illegals can't vote. I thought you could smell BS a mile away, guess not.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 18, 2020, 11:00:30 PM
Quote
Editor note: A previous version of this story was rated “false” by independent fact checkers at Politifact after it incorrectly stated that the governor has banned sales of certain products including plants, plant seeds, paint and more.

To be clear, an executive order by Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer does not prohibit gardening or the sale of any particular product.

For clarification purposes: “Stores in Michigan larger than 50,000 square feet must close areas that sell carpet or flooring, furniture and paint, as well as garden centers and plant nurseries.”

We apologize to our readers for the mistaken information.

http://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/governor-cracks-down-on-paint-gardening-sections-and-more/
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 19, 2020, 12:41:27 AM

The bad news is Singapore's second outbreak is much worse than their first as infections skyrocket. But I did see some good news on Worldometers.com. China reported zero deaths and only 27 new infections yesterday. Maybe Trump can call President Xi for advice on how he did it.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/singapore-had-a-model-coronavirus-response-then-cases-spiked-what-happened/ar-BB12QTws?ocid=spartanntp


Illegals can't vote.


Really? Happens all the time in Virginia and even more often in States bordering Mexico. I know a Mexican guy who said for $150 an illegal can get an id with a working social security number so they can go to work legally. If illegals liked to vote for Trump, I'm sure you'd quickly change your tune from denial to anger about what Virginia did. Citizens have the right to vote but they should also be able to prove they have the right to vote by showing ID when they walking into a voting station.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/may/30/illegals-in-virginia-registered-vote-in-elections/


To be clear, an executive order by Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer does not prohibit gardening or the sale of any particular product.


Lol. The executive order doesn't prohibit gardening or sale of any particular product BUT the executive order bans ALL gardening products in stores bigger than 50,000 sq feet. How many outdoor nurseries and stores with gardening sections that you know of are less than 50,000 sq ft ? I can make some crazy rules too if I were a governor. I will honor the 2nd Amendment and will not take away citizens rights to own guns BUT they are allowed to own a gun when they reach the age of 118. See how Democratic governors can make rules to take away people's rights and fact checking sites owned by anti trump organizations will say the governors technically didn't take away anybody's rights. Lol

Here the Michigan State Attorney's Office saying they are going to fine businesses selling non essential items. In the video you will see a Walmart taping off the clothing section. I'm sure their gardening section is also taped off. In some small towns, Walmart is the only place available to shop for gardening supplies and underwear.

http://www.wilx.com/content/news/Michigan-cracking-down-on-non-essential-business-569361041.html

http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/nurseries-not-considered-essential-under-governors-executive-order

The longer lockdowns last, the more people will get agitated and some will even protest, especially if their leaders create rules that don't make sense to them. In my State fishermen are protesting. They wonder why it's against the rules to go fishing in the open waters.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/washington-anglers-protest-coronavirus-fishing-closure/ar-BB12QGMx
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 19, 2020, 01:05:40 AM
Just order them online Billy and get them delivered to your door.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 19, 2020, 01:20:07 AM

Really? Happens all the time in Virginia

Interesting that all the cases of ineligible voting this site found were US citizens.

http://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/search?combine=&state=VA&year=&case_type=All&fraud_type=24491

In fact, of those caught, with few exceptions, most were USC's including some just trying to prove they could to make a point.  One idiot registered his dogs.  He's not alone.

http://www.thecalifornian.com/story/news/2019/08/16/pacific-grove-man-sentenced-probation-felony-voter-fraud-case/2035198001/

Just because something can happen does not mean the system does not work well.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 19, 2020, 03:28:15 AM
Here is an excellent reason why it's important for government to lock us down before things get out of control exponentially....

As of April 15, Italy has 120 doctors dead from coronavirus. Article below does not include other medical personnel. Ten percent of the infected in the country are doctors, said Italy’s National Federation of Doctors Guilds FNOMCEO. That seems high but if true, that means there are over 17,000 doctors in Italy infected as of today. It's safe to assume, tens of thousands of Italian medical workers are out of the battle and when there is less medical personnel, the chance of patients to die increases.

http://report.az/en/other-countries/italy-loses-120-doctors/

Many of us may go back to work soon but there is a good chance we will be told to stay home again whenever there is a spike in infections where we live.

I think if I were working in a Coronavirus hospital I would be asking for footballers salary or I would walk. Seeing that I would be putting my life on the line and any family it would be only fair I would think.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 19, 2020, 04:22:17 AM
NoW, you're showing 'concern' for heath workers ?

Last week you were boasting about breaking rules to make their jobs easier ..   ( crossing five countries in Wales and England, pretty consistently )
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 19, 2020, 07:58:12 AM
No, you're showing 'concern' for heath workers ?

Last week you were boasting about breaking rules to make their jobs easier ..   ( crossing five countries in Wales and England, pretty consistently )

Mobe, it is pure idiocy to not let people drive as sole occupants of a car. A house is a container, a car is a mobile container, they are both the same. The fact that I happen to visit a petrol station once more a week wearing gloves to use the pump won't make a significant difference. Even if everyone did it, it wouldn't make a significant difference. We all go to the supermarket touching trollies and all sorts of other stuff other people have used, so it's the same deal. I prefer to wear gloves, mask and use anti bacterial products to reduce the risk, others apparently don't but that is their lookout. Meanwhile we have joggers running everywhere breathing heavily pumping out the virus but apparently that is not a problem, lol. The fact that they come running close by on pavements that are not two metres wide meaning either having no choice with them breaking the two metre rule or walking in the road risking getting run over to avoid them is apparently not a problem.

If these joggers are spreading the virus then we could be looking at more than a few more days before this thing does down. The government should decide on having a lockdown that applies to all and not idiotic exception of joggers if it really is to appear to be fair to all.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 19, 2020, 08:26:43 AM
Mobe, it is pure idiocy to not let people drive as sole occupants of a car.

It is pure idiocy to pretend you know better than scientific experts ... what do they tell you ?  STAY AT HOME ... not spread it around

To hear you suggesting support for front-line health workers whilst you can't listen to their pleas is another example of Trench's inability to relate, socially
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on April 19, 2020, 08:44:35 AM
Interesting that all the cases of ineligible voting this site found were US citizens.

http://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/search?combine=&state=VA&year=&case_type=All&fraud_type=24491

In fact, of those caught, with few exceptions, most were USC's including some just trying to prove they could to make a point.  One idiot registered his dogs.  He's not alone.

http://www.thecalifornian.com/story/news/2019/08/16/pacific-grove-man-sentenced-probation-felony-voter-fraud-case/2035198001/

Just because something can happen does not mean the system does not work well.

I've never heard of illegals voting.  What would be their motivation to? 

I have heard of dead people voting.   In the election of 1960, there is an argument that can be made that the dead elected JFK president in Illinois.

For years the Daly machine would control who was elected in Chicago.   

My dad always used to pop the joke about Chicago voting:   Vote early and vote often.

Now, in theory, the argument was dispelled.

In the end, Kennedy won with 303 electoral votes and Nixon ran a terrible campaign, failing to put his efforts into swing states.   (Like Hillary Clinton not campaigning in Wisconsin.)  Nixon campaigned in all 50 states, one of the last presidential candidates to do so.  But the Illinois vote was so very close and Cook County delivered it for Kennedy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 19, 2020, 09:13:55 AM
Just order them online Billy and get them delivered to your door.


Then the governor should just make everybody buy essential items online too. Problem is not everybody got a credit card, or knows how to use a computer and not enough online nurseries to serve the whole community.

If a person has to walk into a hardware store to buy plumbing to fix a leak at home, why can't they also pick up some seeds for their garden? Growing their own food will help limit their trips to the store. I hate gardening but I know some people love it with a passion and it keeps them home. One trip to get gardening supplies will keep them busy at home for months.

http://www.thecalifornian.com/story/news/2019/08/16/pacific-grove-man-sentenced-probation-felony-voter-fraud-case/2035198001/

Just because something can happen does not mean the system does not work well.


Your article says an American citizen got dead people and dogs registered to vote in California because they don't require photo ID when registering to vote. If he can do it, so can illegals and other non citizens. While Texas found 58,000 non citizens voting in past elections, they changed laws to require ID. Then we got States like Virginia, in a time of crisis, changing laws that make voter fraud easier.

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article225094315.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 19, 2020, 10:03:19 AM
http://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/jan/28/donald-trump/trump-wrongly-tweets-58000-noncitizens-voted-texas/

Argumentum ad Ignorantiam
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 19, 2020, 10:17:01 AM
http://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/jan/28/donald-trump/trump-wrongly-tweets-58000-noncitizens-voted-texas/

Argumentum ad Ignorantiam

Politifact is run by the Poynter Institute school for journalism which is owned by the left wing, anti Trump newspaper Tampa Bay Times. I'm not going to dispute whether Trump's Tweet was right or not but they didn't say the Texas State investigation of 58K non citizens voted was false. Maybe it was 57,999 that voted? If you're trying to say non citizens can't vote, you're not going to convince me. If that old fart in California can online register a dog to vote and show up at a voting station and vote for the dog because ID isn't required, so can an illegal. He got caught. Not everybody gets caught.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 19, 2020, 10:38:57 AM
Attack the facts Billy, not the messenger.  Here is another messenger:

http://www.factcheck.org/2019/01/more-voter-fraud-misinformation-from-trump/

Ok so herewith all prior elections have been invalidated because illegal aliens could have voted.

Has there been one peep out of texas since (aside from Trump)?  I think it would be headline news by now and all over Fox.  Your wife who likely had a drivers licence before being naturalized would have been on that list of 'illegal alien voter fraudsters' in Texas.

One of these days you'll stretch that rubber band so thin it'll snap you in the eye.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 19, 2020, 10:43:31 AM
Meanwhile.....

numbers of daily new infections here falling, but painfully slow.  Upside 3.000 positives out of 50,000 tests yesterday and lowest number of deaths since mid-April.

Has taken 20 days to halve from 6000 to 3000.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on April 19, 2020, 10:47:00 AM
http://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/jan/28/donald-trump/trump-wrongly-tweets-58000-noncitizens-voted-texas/

Argumentum ad Ignorantiam

Yeah.  That was a bad tweet.  But it furthers his argument that restrictions need to be put on voting.  Personally, I think it is the wrong message to send to the populace. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 19, 2020, 10:58:31 AM
jone,

there is only one reason for the most powerful man in the world to spout such - the greatest bait-n-switch show of all time must go on.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 19, 2020, 11:05:27 AM

Really? Happens all the time in Virginia and even more often in States bordering Mexico. I know a Mexican guy who said for $150 an illegal can get an id with a working social security number so they can go to work legally. If illegals liked to vote for Trump, I'm sure you'd quickly change your tune from denial to anger about what Virginia did. Citizens have the right to vote but they should also be able to prove they have the right to vote by showing ID when they walking into a voting station.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/may/30/illegals-in-virginia-registered-vote-in-elections/


And your conclusion is based on an article that was basically a cut and paste from a conservative group's report.  And even they couldn't conclusively state that the votes were illegal.  Plus, they stated "non-citizens", which includes legal permanent residents, to hide from the fact they couldn't find any evidence that illegal aliens voted.

Quote
Ms. Erickson was one of more than 5,500 noncitizens who were registered to vote in Virginia this decade, and were only bumped from the rolls after they admitted to being ineligible. Some 1,852 of them even managed to cast ballots that were likely illegal, though undetected, the PILF, a conservative voter integrity group, said in its report.

And Mr Erickson contacted the paper to state that Ms. Erickson is a US citizen. 

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 19, 2020, 11:10:06 AM
More 'fake news' for BillyB ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmp4ab9jIHI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmp4ab9jIHI)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on April 19, 2020, 11:21:14 AM
jone,

there is only one reason for the most powerful man in the world to spout such - the greatest bait-n-switch show of all time must go on.

This is not the time for politics.   This is the time for war against the virus.   Having said that, I believe Trump is much more direct.  His job is to excite his base.  Obviously, with one poster on this forum, his tact has succeeded.  He could care less what the Democrats think.

On another note:  60% of the Democrats and 90% of the Republicans think that the Chinese have been lying to the world about the COVID 19 Virus and its origins.   Australia and Japan have already instituted anti-trade programs to shift their business away from China.   Japan is now paying its companies to offset what it saves them to do business in China.   People do not like being lied to.   Especially when their lives are on the line.

90% of the Chinese population believe that the United States is behind the COVID 19 Virus because that is the swill being doled out by the Chinese Communist Government.     I think it amazing that China uses Twitter and Facebook to advance their arguments to the world, yet prohibit their populace from using either.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 19, 2020, 11:24:58 AM
Who STILL thinks the virus crossed to humans in Wuhan .. ?

They MIGHT like to do a little more research ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 19, 2020, 11:38:02 AM
Attack the facts Billy, not the messenger.  Here is another messenger:

http://www.factcheck.org/2019/01/more-voter-fraud-misinformation-from-trump/


I agree with the fact illegals have been voting and there is voter fraud. You deny it? I do not care to debate Trump's tweets that are scrutinize by fact checking sites that you're providing owned and staffed by Anti trump newspapers and journalists working for those newspapers. Those truth/factchecking sites were created to give the impression they are more honest and independent of media sources and they fooled a lot of people.

You recently submitted an article of a man who has the ability to register dogs and dead people in California and actually voted on their behalf. Is this acceptable to you? How hard is it for somebody to pull out ID at a voting station which California doesn't require. States like Virginia wants to remove that requirement too. Figure out why. If illegals were voting for Trump, I'm sure you'd change your tune on Virginia really quick. It shouldn't matter what side of the political fence you're on, it's wrong what Virginia is doing by making voter fraud easier and it becomes harder to catch violators.

Instead of finding fact checking sites that say Trump's tweets are wrong, how about showing fact checking sites claiming states like Texas aren't accurate in their assessments of voter fraud and then prove to me that those fact checking sites located outside of Texas has a better ability to figure out what is going on in Texas than Texas. I've seen the arguments there's no proof a single illegal voted out of 58,000 in Texas but those who claim that have not submitted proof that all 58,000 are citizens either.


More 'fake news' for BillyB ..


Did Obama make the investment he says is needed to catch airborne diseases that rival the Spanish Flu? The controlling CDC policies that came out after the Swine Flu which happened on Obama's watch actually hurt our ability to make test kits quickly. Obama talked the talk but didn't walk the walk.  Trump threw a lot of those rules away. But we shouldn't have needed to worry. We paid WHO up to $500 million a year to handle epidemics overseas and provide adequate warnings so pathogens don't come to our shores.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 19, 2020, 11:49:30 AM
BillyB just proved that even when busted, he'll bluster and post nonsense
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 19, 2020, 12:00:42 PM
Billy,

It was you that tried to justify a brain fart with a seed and sprout off-topic tangent/distraction.

Since you didn't request a retainer agreement you'll just have to do your own research to prove your point.

The articles I posted provide enough data for you to research and they are free. 

The ball is in your court, not mine. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 19, 2020, 12:07:39 PM

It was you that tried to justify a brain fart with a seed and sprout off-topic tangent/distraction.


When a liberal posts an article claiming Trump is trying to start a revolution in States during an epidemic, and a conservative say it's not true, Trump is simply complaining about the stupid rules of some governors that are actually pissing off State citizens, it's the conservative's fault for starting this? Do you share any blame for participating by providing more Trump tweets and anti Trump sources?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 19, 2020, 12:11:00 PM
No
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on April 19, 2020, 12:54:39 PM
I think if I were working in a Coronavirus hospital I would be asking for footballers salary or I would walk. Seeing that I would be putting my life on the line and any family it would be only fair I would think.


No doubt they would pay you about the same as the football.
Probably kick you as often, too. ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 19, 2020, 01:18:08 PM
It is pure idiocy to pretend you know better than scientific experts ... what do they tell you ?  STAY AT HOME ... not spread it around

To hear you suggesting support for front-line health workers whilst you can't listen to their pleas is another example of Trench's inability to relate, socially

Yes they have got it wrong, the 'stay at home' message is a numpty message spread by people that are too gormless to realise the idiocy of that message. You can't say 'stay at home' then have people out doing jogging getting in each others way, breathing all over each other, when that clearly isn't 'staying at home'.

The WHO have got it wrong, they are very poor scientists. They are not worth the money they are being paid just to announce when a virus becomes a pandemic, we knew that already way before they announced it. The UK should follow Trump's lead and withdraw funding from the WHO, god knows we could do with saving the money now and not wasting it there. They gave out BS statistics and tried to dupe the public then gave out bad advice. The US are lucky to have someone like Trump to tell the WHO where to go and not unthinkingly keep putting money into that waste of space.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 19, 2020, 02:36:22 PM
Yes they have got it wrong, the 'stay at home' message is a numpty message spread by people that are too gormless to realise the idiocy of that message. You can't say 'stay at home' then have people out doing jogging getting in each others way, breathing all over each other, when that clearly isn't 'staying at home'.

The WHO have got it wrong, they are very poor scientists. They are not worth the money they are being paid just to announce when a virus becomes a pandemic, we knew that already way before they announced it. The UK should follow Trump's lead and withdraw funding from the WHO, god knows we could do with saving the money now and not wasting it there. They gave out BS statistics and tried to dupe the public then gave out bad advice. The US are lucky to have someone like Trump to tell the WHO where to go and not unthinkingly keep putting money into that waste of space.

Ah, OK... Trench 'knows better' ..'Trampu' 'knows better' ..

There's nothing BS, now, about how this virus can strike down the most surprising healthy people - who without treatment - might die.

Once again, MANY people are asymptomatic- but they are carriers ..   We don't know the percentage, but figures from 30-80 percent are being banded about... ALL stats are 'BS', as we don't know enough... 

The people you tried to show empathy for ... heath-care and other workers, who deal with sick and possibly carriers who aren't sick, have BEGGED you to stay home ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvmj8tMUEzo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvmj8tMUEzo)

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 19, 2020, 03:46:53 PM

The virus creates brain malfunctions which means half the forum needs to go get tested ASAP!

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/confusion-seizure-strokes-how-covid-19-may-affect-the-brain/ar-BB12NV24?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 19, 2020, 07:48:42 PM
This is not the time for politics.   This is the time for war against the virus.   
There is the throw away line you are famous for. 

You are all about politicking and politics for the US under any and all circumstances.   

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 19, 2020, 07:52:25 PM
I agree with the fact illegals have been voting and there is voter fraud. 

 I seriously doubt very many illegals are voting.   They should be voting though.  The US intentionally has kept legal immigration to a minimum and now we have 15-20 million illegals here and their 20 million legal children as our workforce.  it is all set up that way.  The US has become a country were many aren't represented and I don't think it is an accident.

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 20, 2020, 01:16:41 AM
Did Obama make the investment he says is needed to catch airborne diseases that rival the Spanish Flu? The controlling CDC policies that came out after the Swine Flu which happened on Obama's watch actually hurt our ability to make test kits quickly. Obama talked the talk but didn't walk the walk.  Trump threw a lot of those rules away. But we shouldn't have needed to worry. We paid WHO up to $500 million a year to handle epidemics overseas and provide adequate warnings so pathogens don't come to our shores.

Obama was in office 4 months when the swine flu emerged.  He didn't complain that it was the previous administration's fault.

Trump had 3+ years, with 2 years of complete GOP dominance in congress.  And he keeps complaining that it was the previous administration's fault.  How many years does he need to do his job and take responsibility?
 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 20, 2020, 01:48:43 AM
Ah, OK... Trench 'knows better' ..'Trampu' 'knows better' ..

There's nothing BS, now, about how this virus can strike down the most surprising healthy people - who without treatment - might die.

Once again, MANY people are asymptomatic- but they are carriers ..   We don't know the percentage, but figures from 30-80 percent are being banded about... ALL stats are 'BS', as we don't know enough... 

The people you tried to show empathy for ... heath-care and other workers, who deal with sick and possibly carriers who aren't sick, have BEGGED you to stay home ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvmj8tMUEzo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvmj8tMUEzo)

Mobe, the 'stay at home' message is being parroted around by those that don't understand it including healthworkers. It misses the point that it is socializing that spreads the virus and that is what should be more specifically targeted.

As for sad YouTube videos I don't have time for them, I spend my time more productively.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 20, 2020, 02:12:50 AM
How many years does he need to do his job and take responsibility?

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 20, 2020, 02:32:44 AM
Mobe, the 'stay at home' message is being parroted around by those that don't understand it including healthworkers. It misses the point that it is socializing that spreads the virus and that is what should be more specifically targeted.

As for sad YouTube videos I don't have time for them, I spend my time more productively.

Productively spreading the virus and you cross the country on non-essential journeys ..

The stay at home message is being promoted as LAW in your nation ..



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 20, 2020, 03:30:27 AM
Productively spreading the virus and you cross the country on non-essential journeys ..

The stay at home message is being promoted as LAW in your nation ..

Why what nation are you in? Have you declared your Mother's abode as a separate enclave in the UK that is part of the Republic of Ireland, lol.

Mobe, no virus is being transmitted by me travelling alone and living alone in Wales, you prove otherwise.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 20, 2020, 03:33:04 AM
As I stated earlier in this thread Italy is heading for default:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/8e03cf2e-80bd-11ea-8fdb-7ec06edeef84

Better not stay anonymous with those donations BC else the natives might turn against you as a foreigner, make it rain money in the streets and be surrounded by hot Italian chicks instead ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 20, 2020, 03:37:00 AM
Why what nation are you in? Have you declared your Mother's abode as a separate enclave in the UK that is part of the Republic of Ireland, lol.

Mobe, no virus is being transmitted by me travelling alone and living alone in Wales, you prove otherwise.

Dear Trench,

You have told us many times you are doing no wrong.

Here's a suggestion. Post on here that you are not breaking the law.....

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 20, 2020, 05:03:41 AM
Obama was in office 4 months when the swine flu emerged.  He didn't complain that it was the previous administration's fault.

Trump had 3+ years, with 2 years of complete GOP dominance in congress.  And he keeps complaining that it was the previous administration's fault.  How many years does he need to do his job and take responsibility?

Sheesh how easy you guys forget. Obama whined, complained and blamed Bush for everything under the sun, and he too had majority congress his first two years. He whined and complained his entire two terms.

Trump wasn’t complaining Obama neglected to restock PPEs like the N95 masks after the H1N1 pandemic, he was stating a fact. Huge difference. Fake news was spreading the notion it was Trumps fault for having depleted inventory in the national stockpile. Obama had 6 years to restocked what his administration depleted, he didn’t. 6 years!!!!

LMAO, hell compared to COVID, H1N1 was a ”JV” virus, no?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 20, 2020, 07:24:43 AM
Obama was in office 4 months when the swine flu emerged.  He didn't complain that it was the previous administration's fault.

Trump had 3+ years, with 2 years of complete GOP dominance in congress.  And he keeps complaining that it was the previous administration's fault.  How many years does he need to do his job and take responsibility?


Five years after Obama's Swine Flu experience, he gave a speech to a group of people according to Moby's video. Obama said a Spanish Flu may show up someday and we need to "set up infrastructure to see it quickly, isolate it quickly, respond to it quickly". Whatever Obama set up in the years after the Swine Flu didn't work for today's coronavirus. Did he propose more money in a bill to make it happen? The rule book at CDC did get revised after the Swine Flu in 2009. Obama may have even allotted more money to WHO to help with seeing things quickly but China wouldn't let WHO and the CDC see anything anyway.


Many times a President would give a speeches to a bodies of people, farmers, union workers, or in this case, probably infectious disease experts and the President will say all the right things in his speech written by somebody else. What is said and done can be two different things. If anybody can find me evidence on what Obama done more to fight a pandemic after the speech he gave listing what was needed, post it here. He talked the talk but didn't walk the walk.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 20, 2020, 08:02:23 AM
More on fake news:

Lisa* Weija from CBSNews during the briefing yesterday tried to promote another fake news by attempting to accuse Trump of not reacting fast enough and declare a national emergency to prevent the pandemic hitting the US. Not true. Donald Trump himself declared national emergency, then banned flights coming from China when grim news broke out of China - despite what his administration's health department's recommendation. He was demonize for it, including Biden, and was called a xenophobe/racist. At that time, there were no deaths reported in the US. During the swine flu, Obama HIMSELF, didn't declare a national emergency until AFTER 1,000 Americans died of the virus 6 months later.

Trump, very wisely admonished Lisa* Weija for not doing proper research before attempting to advance another fake news. Shut that idiot up!!!

National stockpile inventory: Dr. Fauci's Congressional testimony when asked if the nation was ready for this pandemic and what current state of preparedness is the country in? His response was "it was a failing'! because of the Obama's administration incompetence for leaving this matter unattended after it depleted its' inventory.

Two weeks after Trump's declaration, Dr. Anthony Fauci himself was declaring there's no threat to the US AND Nanci Pelosi parading in SF's ChinaTown telling the public to come to Chinatown and there's no correlation with Chinese to the virus. We now know California's strain was the same strain from China. This was in total concert to Italy's actions of promoting a 'hug a Chinese' AFTER it banned flights from China. I guess they hugged these Chinese pretty tight, too. Consequently, we didn't take this stupid act serious enough and restricted flights from Italy fast enough, too. Trump can rightfully be blamed for that. But that's what we get when our own 'ally' doesn't give us the proper 'warning'. New York/NJ and the adjacent states took the brunt of that stupidity.

As for lack of testing, anyone with a half a brain should know by now it was the CDC who fumbled putting these test kits together.

As for the Democrats fake news claim that Trump 'defunded' CDC - chew on this (http://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/democrats-misleading-coronavirus-claims/). Despite Trump's repeated proposal to cut funding for the CDC, during this administration, funding for the CDC actually increased.

* ~I should Google more like everyone here. I could've saved time by getting the CBSNews' name correct the first time, ~
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 20, 2020, 08:03:49 AM
Dear Trench,

You have told us many times you are doing no wrong.

Here's a suggestion. Post on here that you are not breaking the law.....

I am not breaking the law - there you go Mobers ;)

I travel to my home address and to my place of work, that is permitted.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 20, 2020, 08:21:05 AM

In yesterdays briefing, CBS News White House correspondent Weijia Jiang asked why Trump didn't warn Americans earlier. Lol. So while everybody was focused on impeachment in January and February, they blame Trump for not giving warning back then. January travel restrictions weren't a clue? Instead of writing articles back in January that Trump is taking serious action against the virus, they call him racist.

Somebody on the internet compiled this timeline since the media now wants to ignore facts and pretend everybody seen this virus coming except for Trump.

January 14 - the WHO (World Health Organization) sent out a tweet declaring that there is no evidence of human-to-human transmission of the COVID-19 virus.

January 23 - Vox - "The evidence on travel bans for diseases like Coronavirus is clear: They don't work"

January 24 - Dr. Anthony Fauci National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) Director reported:
• Covid 19 It isn't something the American public needs to worry about or be frightened about, because we have ways of preparing and screening of.
• It's a very, very low risk to the United States, but it's something that we as public health officials need to take very seriously.
• However, Joe Scarborough and wife Minka had a segment where they said "no Americans need to be concerned about COVID-19 and should be more concerned about the common flu.

January 26: Fauci says Coronavirus is a very low risk to our country

January 27: Pelosi proposes legislation to bar the President from closing border

January 28: Business Insider - "flu is a far bigger threat to most people in the US than the Wuhan coronavirus"

January 29: LA Times - "The new coronavirus isn't a threat to people in the United States - but the flu is"

January 29: Joe Biden in a speech in Iowa said that Trump's idea of restricting travel from China was "Xenophobic".

January 30: WHO calls corona virus a healthcare emergency.

January 31: TRUMP CLOSES OUR BORDER to foreign nationals who had recently visited China.

• WHO recommends against closing the border.
• Democrats attack Trump as racist and xenophobic
• NYT quotes an epidemiologist as saying that Trump's decision to restrict travel from China was "more of an emotional or political reaction."
• WaPo quotes a Chinese official asking for "empathy" and slamming the White House for acting "in disregard of WHO recommendation against travel restrictions."
• Vox tweets: "Is this going to be a deadly pandemic? No." (Tweet deleted weeks later).

February 1: Washington Post - "Get a grip, America. The flu is a much bigger threat than coronavirus, for now." New York Times - "Beware the Pandemic Panic - (used to justify unnecessarily severe limits on movement and civil liberties)"

February 2: TRUMP IMPOSES QUARANTINE on American travelers who recently visited China

• WHO says virus can be easily controlled
• CNN tweets a joke to downplay threat posed by Coronavirus: "There's a virus that has infected 15 millionAmericans across the country and killed more than 8,200 people this season alone. It's not a new pandemic — it's influenza."
• NYC Health Commissioner Barbot tweets: “As we gear up to celebrate the #LunarNewYear in NYC, I want to assure New Yorkers that there is no reason for anyone to change their holiday plans, avoid the subway, or certain parts of the city because of #coronavirus."
• New York City Health Commissioner Dr. Oxiris Barbot, “The risk to New Yorkers for Coronavirus is low and our preparedness as a city is very high. There is no reason not to take the subway, not to take the bus, not to go out to your favorite restaurant, and certainly not to miss the parade next Sunday. I’m going to be there.”

February 4: Politico - "Coronavirus quarantine, travel ban could backfire, experts fear"

February 7: Health Commissioner Barbot says "We’re telling New Yorkers, go about your lives, take the subway, go out, enjoy life."

February 9: The chair of NYC Health Committee tweets: "In powerful show of defiance of #coronavirus scare, huge crowds gathering in NYC's Chinatown for ceremony ahead of annual #LunarNewYear parade. Chants of 'be strong Wuhan!' If you are staying away, you are missing out!"

February 11: Biden, through his adviser, says the evidence "suggests" the coronavirus won't be a "serious pandemic."

February 13: DeBlasio's office tweets "There are ZERO confirmed cases of coronavirus in New York City, and hundreds of Chinese restaurants that need your business! There is nothing to fear. Stop by any Chinatown for lunch or dinner!"

• De Blasio tweets "It was my honor to spend time with our Asian-American owned small businesses in Flushing today. This vibrant community is standing strong but they need YOUR support. Our Chinatowns are open for business — make some dinner plans, do some shopping and stand with our neighbors!"
• Biden, through his advisor, praises de Blasio: "We don’t have a #COVIDー19 epidemic in the US but we are starting to see a fear epidemic. Kudos to @NYCMayor (and others) for standing against that."

February 17: Fauci says risk of coronavirus infection in U.S. is "miniscule” and people shouldn't wear masks unless they are contagious.

February 24: Nancy Pelosi says from San Francisco's China Town to come visit, it is safe and "there are no Coronavirus concerns". Then SF became one of the epicenters of the disease.

February 28: CDC RECOMMENDS SOCIAL DISTANCING

February 29: Fauci says risk is low and people can continue day-to-day routines re malls, movies
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 20, 2020, 08:51:57 AM
Billy,

If you are going to post timeline, at least show the full source which for the most part seems to be:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/from-new-york-to-canada-to-the-white-house-initial-coronavirus-responses-havent-aged-well

Note, quite a lot has been culled and, well, modified to fit whatever agenda along with inserts from other 'timelines' deemed favourable.

'somebody on the internet' is who?

ho hum



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 20, 2020, 08:56:52 AM
Billy,

If you are going to post timeline, at least show the full source which for the most part seems to be:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/from-new-york-to-canada-to-the-white-house-initial-coronavirus-responses-havent-aged-well

Note, quite a lot has been culled and, well, modified to fit whatever agenda along with inserts from other 'timelines' deemed favourable.

'somebody on the internet' is who?

ho hum

BC-

Is there any part of the timeline you disagree with? Please state so...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 20, 2020, 09:57:04 AM
In yesterdays briefing,....Trump....

BillyB-

Yesterday's briefing, Trump said we have thousands of ventilators available and are restocking plenty in our national stockpile. He noted, based on reports given by governors around the country that *NO case/patient that needed ventilators was ever deprived of it unlike what we've seen elsewhere that supposedly had better healthcare system than the US. We never had to play overlords and decide on who dies and live because of equipment shortages and unpreparedness!!! And this, after finding out the incompetence of the previous administration.

What an administration/leader Trump really is, eh?

But what was interesting was, he also stated that 20+ millions of 3M N95 masks are currently getting shipped, and millions more on the way - BUT makes one wonder if our health care system is so stupid and not realize that according to a self-declared message board expert on everything under the sun, that N95 masks apparently choke people dead after 30 minutes? Why make these mask in the first place if this was true?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 20, 2020, 10:10:12 AM
BC-

Is there any part of the timeline you disagree with? Please state so...

There are many, but I'll not be going through them all.  Is easy to do by comparing Billy's post with the fox news timeline.  Much cannot be checked as no sources are listed in Billy's list.

Here's an example from Billy's post: 

Quote
January 14 - the WHO (World Health Organization) sent out a tweet declaring that there is no evidence of human-to-human transmission of the COVID-19 virus.

Here from the fox news timeline:

Quote
Jan. 14: The WHO announces, “Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in Wuhan, China.”

World of difference eh?


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 20, 2020, 10:18:44 AM
Billy,

If you are going to post timeline, at least show the full source which for the most part seems to be:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/from-new-york-to-canada-to-the-white-house-initial-coronavirus-responses-havent-aged-well


My source was from a guy who commented after a yahoo article, not Fox as you falsely claim. You can Google each of the statements he made in the timeline to see if it's true or not. I knew what he posted was true based on what I read in the past so I used his accurate timeline which has bothered you. There were many experts, including Fauci and those from WHO, that said a travel ban is ineffective. But the media keeps playing the record Trump doesn't listen to experts. Trump is listening to experts now but he didn't in January and early February thank God.


BillyB-

Yesterday's briefing, Trump said we have thousands of ventilators available and are restocking plenty in our national stockpile. He noted, based on reports given by governors around the country that *NO case/patient that needed ventilators was ever deprived of it unlike what we've seen elsewhere that supposedly had better healthcare system than the US. We never had to play overlords and decide on who dies and live because of equipment shortages and unpreparedness!!! And this, after finding out the incompetence of the previous administration.

What an administration/leader Trump really is, eh?

But what was interesting was, he also stated that 20+ millions of 3M N95 masks are currently getting shipped, and millions more on the way - BUT makes one wonder if our health care system is so stupid and not realize that according to a self-declared message board expert on everything under the sun, that N95 masks apparently choke people dead after 30 minutes? Why make these mask in the first place if this was true?

Remember when NY complained about not getting enough ventilators from the federal government and later in a briefing Trump says they were delivered, NY put them in storage and they forgot it was there? My friend who's a nurse said that there can be mismanagement at lower levels and it's not the federal government's fault. The media can always find a nurse in the country that says she doesn't have enough PPE to wear and it's true, not because we don't have enough, but because of bad management. PPE gets stolen at the hospital because nobody thought to put security on it. Manager forgets to take inventory and supplies run out before he orders more. Managers at the State level fail to distribute PPE properly. Slow response to the virus and PPE problems seem to happen in Democratic States more often.

Hurricane Katrina is an example of bad management at all levels. Lots of waste and emergency supplies forgotten in warehouses only to be discovered years later.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/27/washington/27katrina.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 20, 2020, 10:36:11 AM
There are many, but I'll not be going through them all.  Is easy to do by comparing Billy's post with the fox news timeline.  Much cannot be checked as no sources are listed in Billy's list.

Here's an example from Billy's post:  January 14 - the WHO (World Health Organization) sent out a tweet declaring that there is no evidence of human-to-human transmission of the COVID-19 virus.

Here from the fox news timeline: Jan. 14: The WHO announces, “Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in Wuhan, China.”

World of difference eh?

1. I asked you about the timeline, not Billy's post. If there's anything you didn't agree with, please offer the correct event.

2. As for Billy's 'edited' version. Clear semantics, wouldn't you agree?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 20, 2020, 11:18:15 AM
1. I asked you about the timeline, not Billy's post. If there's anything you didn't agree with, please offer the correct event.

2. As for Billy's 'edited' version. Clear semantics, wouldn't you agree?

1. I don't have any great objections to the fox timeline.  They have source links that can be followed.  Generally jives with other substantiated timelines.

2. Semantics no, substance yes.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 20, 2020, 12:42:01 PM
Oh Ho,

Crimea doesn't want Russian visitors !

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/04/20/stop-visiting-crimea-during-coronavirus-outbreak-leader-tells-russians-a70043 (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/04/20/stop-visiting-crimea-during-coronavirus-outbreak-leader-tells-russians-a70043)

To be fair, Krasnodar feels the same and hotels / restaurant are closed

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 20, 2020, 03:32:48 PM
Trench,

          Looks like Ukraine has Corona virus under control,,,so your plan on being a God among impoverished Ukrainain hotties isn't going to work out,

More likely you'll be an impoverished English bloke from a crashed economy hoping a wealthy Ukrainian woman in her 60's/70's might take you on : )
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 20, 2020, 04:41:04 PM
BC-

Is there any part of the timeline you disagree with? Please state so...

Hi GQ,

I disagree in the omissions of that timeline.  Every time Sean Hannity and Jesse Watters stated coronavirus was not a threat, that it was fake news, that the seasonal flu is much more dangerous.  Also omitted are all the news reports and statements by other than Fox News that the coronavirus was serious, that it was a threat.  It cherry picks just the handful of positive items on it's handling of the crisis.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 20, 2020, 05:19:47 PM
Hi GQ,

I disagree in the omissions of that timeline.  Every time Sean Hannity and Jesse Watters stated coronavirus was not a threat, that it was fake news, that the seasonal flu is much more dangerous.  Also omitted are all the news reports and statements by other than Fox News that the coronavirus was serious, that it was a threat.  It cherry picks just the handful of positive items on it's handling of the crisis.

Steve-

I can understand your point.

FWIW, I do not watch Hannity or for that matter Watters (is he the same guy who used to be O'Reilly's sidekick?), so I cannot refute anything you're saying. But having said this, presumably that is the counter point against the cited timeline by stating many others pretty much said the same thing.

But the point I thought being made was that, fake news keep attempting to accuse, if not blame, Trump for not reacting quick enough to prevent the fatalities we sustained on this pandemic. I'm certain it's to confuse the liberal base to actually believe them. The timeline clearly shows to the counter.

No one, not the conservative (apparently) / liberal talking heads, neither Biden or Pelosi, not the WHO, and not even Dr. Fauci agreed with Trump when he decided to restrict flights from China, then the ensuing national emergency declaration.

Which makes one wonder exactly what the heck are the MSM trying to demonize him for if not for the sole  purpose of confusing the subject, and make the gullible buy into their fake news. I would like to actually 'see' anything or anyone prove the timeline is in error. Having everyone else say the same thing doesn't negate the fact Trump did in fact 'acted' promptly and properly despite the overwhelming opinions against his action/s.

It's an election year, Steve. Where we all take the country forward come November is entirely up to each of us.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 20, 2020, 05:38:53 PM
I disagree in the omissions of that timeline.  Every time Sean Hannity and Jesse Watters stated coronavirus was not a threat, that it was fake news, that the seasonal flu is much more dangerous.  Also omitted are all the news reports and statements by other than Fox News that the coronavirus was serious, that it was a threat.  It cherry picks just the handful of positive items on it's handling of the crisis.


I don't watch Fox News and I don't think the media's actions should be in a timeline of events. The mainstream media is trying to claim two things on a regular basis and that is Trump acted slow and he doesn't listen to experts. If you can find days where Trump ignored expert advice and prove he acted slow, add it to the timeline. If the timeline isn't accurate, point out what you think is wrong with it. The only time I know Trump ignored expert advice was back in January when experts were advising against banning travel. What Trump did was copied by every nation on earth so apparently he made a good decision and his move will be recorded in playbooks on how to handle pandemics.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 20, 2020, 06:05:35 PM
Looks like Ukraine has Corona virus under control,,,


My MIL is a retired doctor currently in Ivano Frankivsk. She still talks to her friends in the hospital. The death toll in that one city is almost as great as the death toll Ukraine submits to WHO for the whole nation. Don't believe any reporting from that part of the World. There's a lot of under reporting going on to keep people from panicking and get people to believe their leaders are doing a wonderful job compared to the leaders of 1st World nations.

In other news, good news! NY governor Cuomo said he'll give 400 ventilators to a State in need.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on April 20, 2020, 06:41:57 PM
Just as a total aside.   I was comparing my thoughts of CNN twenty years ago to how I think of them now.   What a disappointment.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 20, 2020, 08:23:34 PM
So now trump and many conservatives are having their real dreams come true.  No more immigration to the USA.  Supposed to be temporary, we will see how that works out.  The US is the most infected nation on the planet currently.  Many aren't interested in coming here right now anyway.  I am really curious to see how this plays out over the next few months to few years. 

Trump says he is suspending immigration over coronavirus, need to protect jobs

President Donald Trump said Monday that he is temporarily suspending immigration to the United States in response to the coronavirus pandemic and the "need to protect jobs."

In a tweet Monday night, the president attributed the suspension to an "attack from the Invisible Enemy" and the "need to protect the jobs of our GREAT American Citizens."....


 http://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-suspending-immigration-over-022531226.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-suspending-immigration-over-022531226.html)

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on April 21, 2020, 04:03:33 AM
So now trump and many conservatives are having their real dreams come true.  No more immigration to the USA.  Supposed to be temporary, we will see how that works out.  The US is the most infected nation on the planet currently.  Many aren't interested in coming here right now anyway.  I am really curious to see how this plays out over the next few months to few years. 

Trump says he is suspending immigration over coronavirus, need to protect jobs

President Donald Trump said Monday that he is temporarily suspending immigration to the United States in response to the coronavirus pandemic and the "need to protect jobs."

In a tweet Monday night, the president attributed the suspension to an "attack from the Invisible Enemy" and the "need to protect the jobs of our GREAT American Citizens."....


 http://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-suspending-immigration-over-022531226.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-suspending-immigration-over-022531226.html)

Fathertime!


Serious move, considering our country was built on immigration
 
Lamentations to all out there waiting for approval to come here, it might be a long time before that policy is reversed
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 21, 2020, 04:31:23 AM
Just as a total aside.   I was comparing my thoughts of CNN twenty years ago to how I think of them now.   What a disappointment.

Jone,

There are no real news outlets anymore, they are all 'news shows'.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 21, 2020, 05:18:38 AM

Lamentations to all out there waiting for approval to come here, it might be a long time before that policy is reversed

Not sure how much of an effect this will have on COVID-19 given the existing travel bans. 

The judicial review process will commence soon, starting with some liberal leaning District court. 

This is probably best for the Trump Doctrine thread. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 21, 2020, 05:32:56 AM

Serious move, considering our country was built on immigration
 
Lamentations to all out there waiting for approval to come here, it might be a long time before that policy is reversed
Trump has somewhat successfully empowered and galvanized conservatives against immigration.  Illegal immigrants there is a decent case, although they have been fulfilling a need.  Legal immigration happens to occur from a lot of spanish speaking, asian, and africian nations, and that doesn't set well with many of the republicans.  The Corona Virus has provided the excuse trump needed to take the draconian measure of 100% no immigrants.  The virus is already loose, so on that basis it really isn't sensible.   

Fathertime!   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 21, 2020, 05:35:09 AM

There are no real news outlets anymore, they are all 'news shows'.

Certainly true for political news, with the evening "show" programming and content designed to make the audience feel as good as possible. 

CNN was impressive in its Turner days.  CNN is still among the best IMO in covering breaking news about disasters and similar events.    As soon as Trump's Presidential duties warrant some response from him, the CNN news coverage focuses more on finding something debatable and painting it as black.     Nothing wrong when reporting the "dubious," yet when the dubious is tilted in the same direction every time.....it just reinforces the divide. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 21, 2020, 08:00:34 AM

Trump says he is suspending immigration over coronavirus, need to protect jobs


Hopefully it doesn't affect family based visas but why issue temporary work visas when unemployment is high?


CNN was impressive in its Turner days.  CNN is still among the best IMO in covering breaking news about disasters and similar events.    As soon as Trump's Presidential duties warrant some response from him, the CNN news coverage focuses more on finding something debatable and painting it as black.     Nothing wrong when reporting the "dubious," yet when the dubious is tilted in the same direction every time.....it just reinforces the divide. 


I don't watch news anymore but when I became interested in tv news in the late 80's and 90's CNN was the place I went to. I remember watching them report the buildup of the forces before liberating Kuwait and air bombing of Iraqi forces to soften them up. They were not hammering on Republican president H.W Bush everyday questioning his every move.  It seems many news outlets have a couple of objectives. 1) to provide shocking news so they get more clicks at websites and 2) Get a certain person elected President.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 21, 2020, 08:21:18 AM
OAN & NEWSY are likely the better channels to watch or listen to varied news report. Any rational, critical thinking person should easily recognize any political agendas being advanced on any of these sources. OAN have both the 'Tipping Point' and 'The Ledger' shows that are rabid conservative political views. These are just as bad as any other shows you'll see at CNN or MSNBC.

I abhor Sean Hannity. Occasionally, I may watch Tucker Carlson or Chris Wallace (Bill O'Reilly before), but would easily turn it off when the drivels begin oozing with potent partizanship e.g. Glenn Beck.

As for CNN, I use to remember when Bernard Shaw was broadcasting from an unknown location in Baghdad while bombs were exploding everywhere and tracer fires where lighting up the nighttime skies...now the channel is nothing but a great source of highly partisan political garbage talk 24/7. Prime purveyor of Fake News.

Huge Ted Koppel fan. Still am.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Strider on April 21, 2020, 08:36:45 AM
OK, returning to the topic...

What is the latest on international travel to and from Ukraine?

Any news on easing restrictions?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on April 21, 2020, 02:14:17 PM
What is the latest on international travel to and from Ukraine?
Any news on easing restrictions?
(http://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.visajourney.com%2Fapplications%2Fcore%2Finterface%2Femail%2Fspacer.png&t=1587503258&ymreqid=9af909b8-1a02-e4a8-301c-c402ff01bb00&sig=yvIgnA7A6bL_Y7eOtgfImw--~C)
Quote
The Trump Administration is planning to pass an Executive Order in the next 24 hours to suspend all immigration to America.  We believe the President may consider a narrow exception for immediate family members of US Citizens including fiancés.
                             ----visajourney     
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 21, 2020, 02:22:25 PM
OK, returning to the topic...

What is the latest on international travel to and from Ukraine?

Any news on easing restrictions?

Thanks!

Good source of info below. There are quarantines and if one is to go out in public, a mask must be worn. If you go to Ukraine, keep the embassy phone number on you in case you need an emergency flight out or a body bag.

http://ua.usembassy.gov/covid-19-information/
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on April 21, 2020, 02:34:28 PM
(http://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.visajourney.com%2Fapplications%2Fcore%2Finterface%2Femail%2Fspacer.png&t=1587503258&ymreqid=9af909b8-1a02-e4a8-301c-c402ff01bb00&sig=yvIgnA7A6bL_Y7eOtgfImw--~C)                              ----visajourney   
 The Trump Administration is planning to pass an Executive Order in the next 24 hours to suspend all immigration to America.  We believe the President may consider a narrow exception for immediate family members of US Citizens including fiancés.
The president is being criticized by the snowflakes for not reacting soon enough..the spread of the virus is his fault.
If he suspends immigration...he is [in their regard] xenophobic, racist, prejudiced, ethnocentric, bigoted and worse.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Strider on April 21, 2020, 03:42:53 PM
If you go to Ukraine, keep the embassy phone number on you in case you need an emergency flight out or a body bag.

The question is:  Is it possible for a foreigner to get in to Ukriane?

In other neighboring countries, like Germany and Poland, the borders are scheduled to open soon, unless the travel bans are extended.   I was wondering if it will be possible to get in somewhere in the area before I buy a ticket somewhere.

I think I had this for a day or two in December.  I didn't need a body bag!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on April 21, 2020, 04:34:45 PM
The question is:  Is it possible for a foreigner to get in to Ukriane?

 

Not at the moment, at least till April 24th. but...…..

My guess is quarantine will be extended till mid May. I wouldn't buy a ticket just yet.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 21, 2020, 04:38:31 PM
Ukraine basically follows whatever Russia does...
at the moment, travel to Ukraine or Russia isn't possible if you're a foreigner, even if you have PR...

Russia is currently only available to Russians, and if you don't live in Moscow, you have to be quarantined in this crappy little place until they run out of room for new inmates
and then then they only allow Moscow residents in...
this just started happening a couple of days ago!!

I'm going in August with my daughters, I'll be there for about a month in the new "Green Zone" in the  Mozhaysky District
but my oldest daughter is going to move into the family compound of her boyfriend's family in the North of the city...
my youngest will stay with me in Mozhaysky, and decide if she wants to stay in Russia or not...
each of them has job offers in  Mozhaysky and of course, I do as well, but I am also supposed to put quite a bit of "skin in the game" to be there and get instant citizenship as well
if only it wasn't SO COLD there...

both of them are quitting university in the USA at the end of next month
and don't have any intention of resuming their education until after the pandemic, whenever that is, when they can return to normal classroom learning

I'm flying on a private plane and will be processed on the tarmac without having to go inside Sheremetyevo!!
it will be an interesting trip in many ways!!

yeah baby, "The IG"
we got THAT in Moscva to!!!!
part of DarkNet
but the first rule of The IG is....
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on April 21, 2020, 05:42:44 PM
Hopefully it doesn't affect family based visas but why issue temporary work visas when unemployment is high?




Family visas are not allowed according to article. :(

http://washingtonpost.com/immigration/coronavirus-trump-suspend-immigration/2020/04/21/464e2440-838d-11ea-ae26-989cfce1c7c7_story.html?tid=pm_pop&itid=pm_pop
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 21, 2020, 06:27:50 PM
I think I had this for a day or two in December.  I didn't need a body bag!


Our government has ordered 100,000 body bags. If you need one later, you know who to call.

http://nypost.com/2020/04/02/pentagon-orders-100000-body-bags-for-coronavirus-victims/


Family visas are not allowed according to article. :(

http://washingtonpost.com/immigration/coronavirus-trump-suspend-immigration/2020/04/21/464e2440-838d-11ea-ae26-989cfce1c7c7_story.html?tid=pm_pop&itid=pm_pop

Not so fast. I'm sure there is fake news in there. They are reporting news before there is news. I watched Trump's briefing today and he was asked for details on the ban. He says it's being written today. He has not even signed the executive order yet. I'm not sure Trump even knows what all it says until he reads it. We'll know more soon.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 21, 2020, 08:24:17 PM


I'm going in August with my daughters, I'll be there for about a month in the new "Green Zone" in the  Mozhaysky District
but my oldest daughter is going to move into the family compound of her boyfriend's family in the North of the city...
my youngest will stay with me in Mozhaysky, and decide if she wants to stay in Russia or not...
each of them has job offers in  Mozhaysky and of course, I do as well, but I am also supposed to put quite a bit of "skin in the game" to be there and get instant citizenship as well
if only it wasn't SO COLD there...


So which one of the neighborhood kids is going to get to play Army in the tree fort while you're gone?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 21, 2020, 11:25:59 PM
I'm going to 'sofa surf' there.. hadn't you heard the gos' ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 21, 2020, 11:37:44 PM

EU nations, UK, Canada and America account for around 12% of the world's population but currently have 86% of the coronavirus deaths. Seems like most of the world is under reporting. Or maybe the rest of the world has better leaders, experts, and health care systems to protect the citizens? This is one of those moments we really get to see which nations are more honest than others.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 22, 2020, 12:28:01 AM
BillyB,

Perhaps your stats would make more sense if you figured out

1/ Where nations are in the infection curve

2/ Thought about where the most international traffic routes where?

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 22, 2020, 05:47:36 AM
I am also supposed to put quite a bit of "skin in the game" to be there and get instant citizenship as well

Good luck, Citizen Krimster and family!

Congratulations on following your heart and living where you best belong.   

Please let us know how you are doing after you get settled 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 22, 2020, 06:12:02 AM
I'm going to 'sofa surf' there.. hadn't you heard the gos' ?

Your bank is holding up your cash again? Krim doesn't strike me as a pensioner that's willing to taxi you around for $6.92
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 22, 2020, 07:05:01 AM
BillyB,

Perhaps your stats would make more sense if you figured out

1/ Where nations are in the infection curve

2/ Thought about where the most international traffic routes where?




EU nations, UK, Canada and America account for around 12% of the world's population but currently have 86% of the coronavirus deaths. Seems like most of the world is under reporting. Or maybe the rest of the world has better leaders, experts, and health care systems to protect the citizens? This is one of those moments we really get to see which nations are more honest than others.

Or maybe those regions had more international travellers ? ....


The North American and European nations I mentioned have 154,000 deaths. China, with a population of nearly double those nations, have 4632 deaths.  Number of travelers doesn't always equate to infections. All it takes is one person to bring it in a country and spread it around. Vietnam, Laos, and North Korea all border China. They all finished their curve and are at the bottom or they have no curve. They all report zero deaths.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 22, 2020, 07:13:04 AM
BillyB

Are you now suggesting China's figures are accurate enough to be used to try to prove another silly notion of yours?

The UK figures are way lower re deaths and those infected.. One third of deaths are being certified as Covid-19.

'Our' death figures do not include those dying at home or in care homes.

The figures from our ONS should be used.


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 22, 2020, 07:22:07 AM
Ukraine basically follows whatever Russia does...
at the moment, travel to Ukraine or Russia isn't possible if you're a foreigner, even if you have PR...

Russia is currently only available to Russians, and if you don't live in Moscow, you have to be quarantined in this crappy little place until they run out of room for new inmates
and then then they only allow Moscow residents in...
this just started happening a couple of days ago!!

I'm going in August with my daughters, I'll be there for about a month in the new "Green Zone" in the  Mozhaysky District
but my oldest daughter is going to move into the family compound of her boyfriend's family in the North of the city...
my youngest will stay with me in Mozhaysky, and decide if she wants to stay in Russia or not...
each of them has job offers in  Mozhaysky and of course, I do as well, but I am also supposed to put quite a bit of "skin in the game" to be there and get instant citizenship as well
if only it wasn't SO COLD there...

both of them are quitting university in the USA at the end of next month
and don't have any intention of resuming their education until after the pandemic, whenever that is, when they can return to normal classroom learning

I'm flying on a private plane and will be processed on the tarmac without having to go inside Sheremetyevo!!
it will be an interesting trip in many ways!!

yeah baby, "The IG"
we got THAT in Moscva to!!!!
part of DarkNet
but the first rule of The IG is....

Recent news reports suggest that Zelensky is will to toe the line a bit with Moscow in order to try to resolve the conflict in East Ukraine. Whether anything comes of that I guess we will wait and see.

So how come you decided to move from the US to Moscow Krim? Sounds quite dramatric your daughters quiting Uni in the US and setting up in Moscow, do they see a better future with better opportunities there? How did your daughter cone to know her boyfriend in northern Moscow?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 22, 2020, 07:25:46 AM
BillyB

Are you now suggesting China's figures are accurate enough to be used to try to prove another silly notion of yours?


I wasn't trying to say China's figures are accurate. My little exercise was to prove many nations reporting's AREN'T ACCURATE. It was simple enough but you don't get it. You don't get a lot of things.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 22, 2020, 07:36:19 AM
EU nations, UK, Canada and America account for around 12% of the world's population but currently have 86% of the coronavirus deaths. Seems like most of the world is under reporting. Or maybe the rest of the world has better leaders, experts, and health care systems to protect the citizens? This is one of those moments we really get to see which nations are more honest than others.
I wouldn't put the word 'honest' in a sentence with 'world leaders' like the USA in it.  The US has more resources than other countries and can do more testing because of that.   Other nations won't be able to afford to go through the same protocols as us, so when people die, they die, and it is probably left at that.  One thing that can be gleaned though is the US tens of thousands of people apparently have died from the virus, so we are an infected nation, perhaps the most infected.  We won't be as welcome in other countries as long as this remains the case, even with all the money we can throw around.

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 22, 2020, 07:52:21 AM
I wasn't trying to say China's figures are accurate. My little exercise was to prove many nations reporting's AREN'T ACCURATE. It was simple enough but you don't get it. You don't get a lot of things.

I am sorry, but on re-reading your post, the 'exercise' you claim is not (in any way) 'clear'....





Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 22, 2020, 08:17:46 AM
Billy,

No nation has published 'accurate' numbers.

Not the Italians, not the Germans, not the French, not the Americans.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 22, 2020, 08:28:54 AM
Billy,

No nation has published 'accurate' numbers.

Not the Italians, not the Germans, not the French, not the Americans.

If you're trying to say China's numbers are just as accurate as America's or Europe's, just say it. Do you think Italy wants to be accurate with their coronavirus death numbers or do you think they are intentionally lying? How about China?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 22, 2020, 08:52:53 AM
Does it matter at this point?  Will knowing the exact numbers cure anyone? Will it lower our numbers? Don't we all have enough numbers to know it's pretty serious?

If you just want to assess some blame there will be plenty of time for that down the road.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 22, 2020, 09:06:11 AM
Don't we all have enough numbers to know it's pretty serious?


If China reported accurate numbers, I think Italy and other nations would've acted earlier to make a significant difference. Data is important. Without it, we could assume we're dealing with a virus no dangerous than the flu.

Of course there's under reporting evening in Western nations but it's not done intentionally and the numbers that are reported are alarming enough to take serious action. Article below talks about it. NY hospitals were experiencing 4 times the deaths than normal per day. That is what this one virus can do compared to all other illnesses and injuries humans endure. This one virus can easily be the leading cause of death but most citizens worldwide don't take it serious based on what their governments and state run media report.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/25-000-missing-deaths-tracking-122220495.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on April 22, 2020, 09:22:21 AM
Does it matter at this point?  Will knowing the exact numbers cure anyone? Will it lower our numbers? Don't we all have enough numbers to know it's pretty serious?

If you just want to assess some blame there will be plenty of time for that down the road.

Yeah, well, I think it matters.   The low death toll is an 'in your face' type figure that highlights how dishonest the Chinese government has been and how desperate they are to hide the truth.   Insisting that those numbers are correct (and they do) reduces their credibility on all fronts.   And we need answers to ameliorate our understanding of the disease.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 22, 2020, 09:24:50 AM
If you're trying to say China's numbers are just as accurate as America's or Europe's, just say it. Do you think Italy wants to be accurate with their coronavirus death numbers or do you think they are intentionally lying? How about China?

BillyB-

Had the league of nations, especially the overlord nation France, not decided to allow the Chinese slaughter at the hands of the marauding Japanese army, causing the western-backed Chiang Chung-cheng's, aka Chian Kai Sek, administration to fight two wars on both fronts - The Japanese invasion and the communist party, led by Mao Zedong, from within; things might have been different for all of us today.

That period of turmoil led to Chiang Chung-cheng's eventual exile to what is now known as Taiwan until the end of his life, and the mainland China falling to the communist rule that still exist today. 

Had Mao Zedong not prevail in their internal political strife, we never would have had Bruce Lee. Cheng-Dok-seng, the first known Chinese to eat Horseshoe bats, never would've been born. The Beehive, the Olympic Stadium never would've been built, and Sweet Sour Chicken would not have become a favorite recipe by a diabetic American pensioner with a 7.3 A1C count living in Georgia.

History teaches of all us lessons folks like you and jone never seem to learn from, much less understand.

Sh!t Happens!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 22, 2020, 09:29:04 AM

No nation has published 'accurate' numbers.

Not the Italians, not the Germans, not the French, not the Americans.

I assert these nations are reporting stats with a smaller confidence interval than China's.

And by China's underreporting, the western nations above were not as prepared as they could have been.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 22, 2020, 09:39:51 AM
Does it matter at this point?  Will knowing the exact numbers cure anyone? Will it lower our numbers? Don't we all have enough numbers to know it's pretty serious?

Numbers are very important.  A basic rule of management is that you achieve what you measure.   And as we reopen the economy, responding numbers are important to decide whether we hit the brakes or  press down on the throttle. 


Quote
If you just want to assess some blame there will be plenty of time for that down the road.

Agree.  Not only the time available; the existing information is too incomplete to "prosecute" in the press or on the world stage.   The prosecutor needs to collect more evidence. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 22, 2020, 10:26:20 AM
Numbers are very important.  A basic rule of management is that you achieve what you measure.   And as we reopen the economy, responding numbers are important to decide whether we hit the brakes or  press down on the throttle. 

Are we doing that? or will our numbers remain hospital admissions when it is too late to do much? What is Georgia's plan?  Home of the nations largest national and international airport, Georgia's plan affects the whole nation. What about neighbouring states that would be affected if is making a mistake? Are you concerned with their plan?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 22, 2020, 10:34:04 AM
http://youtu.be/9iKJ98ZpatA


...and we have vaccine for the 'seasonal flu'...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 22, 2020, 10:36:45 AM
so when will you dumb phuque Trump voters realize that for every dollar of federal Corona Virus relief
about 90% of it goes to the 1%
and the remaining 10% to everyone else below that
but even some of that 10% gets taken by the 1 percent as well
you’re just like the poor people in Russia...
you’re happy with the crumbs the oligarchs give you
that fall to the floor while they cut up the pie for themselves

http://auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/industry/fed-balance-sheet-tops-5-trillion-for-first-time-as-it-enters-coronavirus-war-mode/74840444

so, my trip to Russia is “exploratory”
I tried living in Moscva winters once...
it was awful!
because I was trying to live a “normal” life, commute to work, etc...
this time will be different from that...
it will be interesting to see how this Green Zone is maintained
the closest thing to that here is the quarantine protection of a US military base
Russia intends to setup hundreds of these protected quarantined zones
that are around strategic resources like factories, etc...

one of the bad parts of this is that pre-Corona I was going to be retiring and living part-time in Costa Rica and part time on South Padre Island Texas by the end of this year....
but Corona has killed that...
it’s very likely that the mini coffee plantation I was building in Costa Rica
will never be inhabited by me
and I will end up making it a gift to the drug cartel that moves in
after the current government which is owned by the tourism industry collapses
and mining, forestry, development and drugs all band together and take them on
 
in Russia, I will be expected to do a LOT of work and also sink some of my own money into these new projects that the RF gov is pushing
so I’d have to give up on the retirement idea, and end up working my butt off again, which really sucks...

my oldest daughter’s boy friend is the son of one of my investor/clients, someone far, far, wealthier than me, they will likely get married at the end of this year...
this means I am only rarely going to see her after August, :(
youngest has several job offers from friends of mine in the Green Zone
or if I stay, she could work with me

if I choose to live in the USA
my life in America will be pretty bleak...
I expect the USA to have a long, slow crawl to a financial collapse next year
the recent fed meeting notes even are predicting this as well
go read it for yourself...
this is the beginning of the end folks...
I'm buying all the gold and palladium I can
but it's impossible to buy now in qty
and retail price is getting higher and higher above spot every week

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 22, 2020, 10:44:10 AM
Are we doing that? or will our numbers remain hospital admissions when it is too late to do much?


Hospitalizations are a lagging indicator and should not be used.  I recall Fauci and Birx saying respiratory ailments is a better indicator, as their numbers increased before hospitalizations increased.   

I would hope that some randomized testing would also be performed on a statistically representative basis.   



Quote
Are you concerned with their plan?

No.  Some new infections will occur.  In fact, I expect the number of daily new cases to increase, but maintained at a pace not to exceed the capacity of the healthcare system.  An increased pace enables the attainment of herd immunity sooner. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 22, 2020, 10:48:25 AM

if I choose to live in the USA
my life in America will be pretty bleak...
I expect the USA to have a long, slow crawl to a financial collapse next year
the recent fed meeting notes even are predicting this as well
go read it for yourself...
this is the beginning of the end folks...

OK, then I have a plan for this.

I am going to start a pre-paid funeral business.
Soon, I will start taking payments after I set up schedules for Cremation, Plot burial, etc.
I could even provide mourners, as are often available in the Orient.
Even wailers (soft or loud), if you wish.
Let me know what other services are desired.
Maybe even assisted s_____ for those who don't want to wait.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 22, 2020, 10:50:26 AM
let the dead bury the dead

thank you for your business offer...
I have already decided upon the kind of death I want
I am a warrior and will die a warriors death...
but not before I hear the wailing of the children of my slain enemies

I'm reading up on cannibalism, it's an old tradition here in Texas
two separate local Indian tribes did this...
from what I know about butchering adult vrs baby lambs
children will be the tastiest



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 22, 2020, 11:03:53 AM
Gator,

Herd immunity is still a very unknown factor.  Also requires getting the bug in the first place.  I doubt you or I would want to do so as we're likely in the higher risk category with chances of not surviving at least 25%

Only anecdotal, but it may be that those who are repeatedly exposed to higher quantities of the virus, like doctors and nurses may have worse outcomes than the general population.

We really do not know enough about this bug yet to make truly educated decisions.  Much is a coin toss.  But even us laymen can look at some of the data and see the results of methods used in different countries.  Can you spot the outliers in the image below?

(http://i.postimg.cc/0jPMSMxD/Screen-Shot-2020-04-22-at-12-08-45.png)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 22, 2020, 11:09:24 AM
http://youtu.be/9iKJ98ZpatA


...and we have vaccine for the 'seasonal flu'...

Sounds like fake news. Video doesn't say what CDC webpage list the numbers or if they read the numbers from the CDC last month, or how they are doing calculations. In a matter of a couple of months, 130,000 Americans finished their battle with COCID-19 and over 45,000 are dead. Close to 700,000 are still fighting the virus. Many of the 700,000 will end up dead within 30 days from now.

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Although the flu has a vaccine, the flu is free to infect 175 million Americans without anybody worrying about it. Exponential increase of flu infections aren't bad. We can't let COVID-19 exponentially increase. Last month we had a few dozen dead. We now have over 45,000 dead. We now know what an exponential increase of dozens is for COVID-19 in one month. That amount of increase should teach us something but for some reason we are still talking about if COVID-19 is bad or not. We do not want to see how 45,000 dead exponentially increases in one month so we stay at home and sacrifice trillions of dollars and our economy to stop the spread. BTW, the head of the CDC said a few days ago next outbreak in America may be worse than this one.

In other news Guayaquil mayor thinks her city has 8000 COVID-19 deaths since the death toll is that much higher than normal for this period. Her nation, Ecuador, currently reports 520 deaths for the entire nation.

 http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/like-the-horror-of-war-mayor-of-virus-ravaged-ecuador-city-calls-for-drastic-response/ar-BB132aiN?ocid=spartanntp

Underdeveloped nations like hers are going to take a beating so bad that it will make NY and Italy look like paradise.


Herd immunity is still a very unknown factor. 


That is true. We don't know if we will acquire immunity and if we do acquire immunity, it probably may not last for more than a couple of years.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 22, 2020, 11:26:53 AM
Sounds like fake news. Video doesn't say what CDC webpage list the numbers or if they read the numbers from the CDC last month, or how they are doing calculations. In a matter of a couple of months, 130,000 Americans finished their battle with COCID-19 and over 45,000 are dead. Close to 700,000 are still fighting the virus. Many of the 700,000 will end up dead within 30 days from now.

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Although the flu has a vaccine, the flu is free to infect 175 million Americans without anybody worrying about it. Exponential increase of flu infections aren't bad. We can't let COVID-19 exponentially increase. Last month we had a few dozen dead. We now have over 45,000 dead. We now know what an exponential increase of dozens is for COVID-19 in one month. That amount of increase should teach us something but for some reason we are still talking about if COVID-19 is bad or not. We do not want to see how 45,000 dead exponentially increases in one month so we stay at home and sacrifice trillions of dollars and our economy to stop the spread. BTW, the head of the CDC said a few days ago next outbreak in America may be worse than this one.

BillyB-

You're too much of an alarmist. Funny, too sometimes. It isn't that hard to get the information you seem to presume doesn't exist when it isn't convenient for you.

But here you go...http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 22, 2020, 11:32:00 AM
GQ,

I cannot see the US getting out of this first wave with less than 100K deaths, now likely more.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 22, 2020, 11:48:00 AM
It isn't that hard to get the information you seem to presume doesn't exist when it isn't convenient for you.

But here you go...http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm

I know that information and it proves the journalist in the video was wrong. How did they come up with their calculations? That is why I don't like journalists translating English to English for me. Just show me the numbers you showed me in the link and I'll decide what is going on. CDC predicts 24,000-62,000 deaths from the flu. We will easily surpass that with COVID-19. We currently have 45,000 official deaths not to mention the unknown deaths. We are averaging well over 2000 deaths a day so if we stop the exponential increase and the curve flattens for the next 30 days averaging 2000 dead, we will add 60,000 deaths to the 45,000 we have now.

BillyB-

You're too much of an alarmist. Funny, too sometimes.


I've always dealt in reality and the pathogen of the century is alarming so my reaction to it is normal compared to others. Fortunately our government understands the virus and  took action as early as January when most people were clueless about what was going on. Months ago when Krimster was laughing at dumphucks and predicting exponential increase. I knew what he was talking about. From zero to a few dozen dead in a couple of months to 45,000 dead the month after is what exponential increase looks like. Fortunately Krimster's predictions of millions or tens of millions of dead won't come true because we've taken action. But if we can't find a cure and this virus eventually infects everybody on earth at least once, you will see hundreds of millions dead.

GQ,

I cannot see the US getting out of this first wave with less than 100K deaths, now likely more.

I'm with BC on this one. With 700,000 currently infected and we add 25,000+ new cases everyday, there is no way we are going to end the first wave with under 100K deaths. The second wave will definitely start before the year's end will also add to this year's death toll.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 22, 2020, 11:52:56 AM
GQ,

I cannot see the US getting out of this first wave with less than 100K deaths, now likely more.

BC-

You do know now both Drs. Fauci and Brix will disagree with you based on their latest estimates, yes?

You could be right, the worst seasonal flu, I believe, netted 80,000 deaths. Again, that's with a vaccine, while COVID has none for now. Conceivably, 100K is plausible. I won't argue with that.

Giving these figures, which to me isn't that different, does COVID really deserve shutting down the entire country and society like this when we go through this almost every year with influenza?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 22, 2020, 11:59:09 AM
I know that information and it proves the journalist in the video was wrong. How did they come up with their calculations? That is why I don't like journalists translating English to English for me. Just show me the numbers you showed me in the link and I'll decide what is going on. CDC predicts 24,000-62,000 deaths from the flu. We will easily surpass that with COVID-19. We currently have 45,000 official deaths not to mention the unknown deaths. We are averaging well over 2000 deaths a day so if we stop the exponential increase and the curve flattens for the next 30 days averaging 2000 dead, we will add 60,000 deaths to the 45,000 we have now.

See. Like I said, you're too funny sometimes. Weren't you the one who was doing all these nutty calculations on this very thread not too long ago? Somehow you 'believe' your calculation is still reliable? LMAO.

CDC didn't 'predict' the number in that link BillyB. It estimated it

Quote
I've always dealt in reality and the pathogen of the century is alarming so my reaction to it is normal compared to others. Fortunately our government understands the virus and  took action as early as January when most people were clueless about what was going on. Months ago when Krimster was laughing at dumphucks and predicting exponential increase. I knew what he was talking about. From zero to a few dozen dead in a couple of months to 45,000 dead the month after is what exponential increase looks like. Fortunately Krimster's predictions of millions or tens of millions of dead won't come true because we've taken action. But if we can't find a cure and this virus eventually infects everybody on earth at least once, you will see hundreds of millions dead.

Based on your nutty calculations you've graced us with, that borders on comical, BillyB.

Quote
I'm with BC on this one. With 700,000 currently infected and we add 25,000+ new cases everyday, there is no way we are going to end the first wave with under 100K deaths. The second wave will definitely start before the year's end will also add to this year's death toll.

Noted. Please advise Dr. Fauci and Brix before today's briefing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 22, 2020, 12:36:37 PM
BC-

You do know now both Drs. Fauci and Brix will disagree with you based on their latest estimates, yes?

You could be right, the worst seasonal flu, I believe, netted 80,000 deaths. Again, that's with a vaccine, while COVID has none for now. Conceivably, 100K is plausible. I won't argue with that.

Giving these figures, which to me isn't that different, does COVID really deserve shutting down the entire country and society like this when we go through this almost every year with influenza?

That is a very easy question to answer GQ.  The numbers, even if high are much less than what could be expected for covid to 'roam free'.  We have at least a level of containment that is keeping the daily number of infections somewhat in check.  I posted a conceptual graphic of Italy daily infections that I crudely superimposed on a bell curve to show how I feel we are progressing here.  The clear area within the curve above the red line are infections that did not take place along with deaths.  Since the US graphic remains flat and has not yet reflected a distinct downward trend, it is difficult to estimate how high or how far along we in the US are within the curve.  My gut tells me we are somewhere on our end of the field somewhere around the 20 to 35-yard line, with possible setbacks ahead...

As far as Italy goes, I estimate with the lockdown that the number of infections was at least halved and deaths only one-third of what 'could have been'.

(http://i.postimg.cc/zBSfzHqH/image-1-copy.jpg)

As far as Birx and Fauci go, I expect adjustments will be made in their assessments, maybe not today, but sooner than later.. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 22, 2020, 12:39:17 PM
so when will you dumb phuque Trump voters realize that for every dollar of federal Corona Virus relief
about 90% of it goes to the 1%
and the remaining 10% to everyone else below that
but even some of that 10% gets taken by the 1 percent as well
you’re just like the poor people in Russia...
you’re happy with the crumbs the oligarchs give you
that fall to the floor while they cut up the pie for themselves

http://auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/industry/fed-balance-sheet-tops-5-trillion-for-first-time-as-it-enters-coronavirus-war-mode/74840444

so, my trip to Russia is “exploratory”
I tried living in Moscva winters once...
it was awful!
because I was trying to live a “normal” life, commute to work, etc...
this time will be different from that...
it will be interesting to see how this Green Zone is maintained
the closest thing to that here is the quarantine protection of a US military base
Russia intends to setup hundreds of these protected quarantined zones
that are around strategic resources like factories, etc...

one of the bad parts of this is that pre-Corona I was going to be retiring and living part-time in Costa Rica and part time on South Padre Island Texas by the end of this year....
but Corona has killed that...
it’s very likely that the mini coffee plantation I was building in Costa Rica
will never be inhabited by me
and I will end up making it a gift to the drug cartel that moves in
after the current government which is owned by the tourism industry collapses
and mining, forestry, development and drugs all band together and take them on
 
in Russia, I will be expected to do a LOT of work and also sink some of my own money into these new projects that the RF gov is pushing
so I’d have to give up on the retirement idea, and end up working my butt off again, which really sucks...

my oldest daughter’s boy friend is the son of one of my investor/clients, someone far, far, wealthier than me, they will likely get married at the end of this year...
this means I am only rarely going to see her after August, :(
youngest has several job offers from friends of mine in the Green Zone
or if I stay, she could work with me

if I choose to live in the USA
my life in America will be pretty bleak...
I expect the USA to have a long, slow crawl to a financial collapse next year
the recent fed meeting notes even are predicting this as well
go read it for yourself...
this is the beginning of the end folks...
I'm buying all the gold and palladium I can
but it's impossible to buy now in qty
and retail price is getting higher and higher above spot every week

That sounds exciting stuff you will have happening there Krim. If your daughter marries into a wealthy family like that it would likely open up a lot of interesting opportunities there, far larger than most would have access to, could end up in Russia's highest echelons of power. I wish you well in your endeavours :)

I think if I was young in my twenties again, doing Uni somewhere in the FSU could be fun, could have loads of hotties after me :D Especially if I made out I had a few bob, lol.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 22, 2020, 12:53:40 PM
Herd immunity is still a very unknown factor. 

Concept been discussed and practiced for long time.  Analyzed to have occurred for measles but on a temporary basis  because 1)  births constantly added susceptible people to the herd.and 2) the very high Ro for measles  (12-18) necessitated a 92-95% herd immunity threshold.    Only after the wide use of vaccination was measles virtually eliminated.  Since then, "free riders" are allowing outbreaks.   

In contrast the Ro for COVID-19 is believed to be  2-4.  The issue of asymptomatic, contagious cases complicates  the math however.     



Quote
Also requires getting the bug in the first place.


Not for everyone.  Just 30-70% (a spread that narrows with more data about the Ro). 


Quote
I doubt you or I would want to do so as we're likely in the higher risk category with chances of not surviving at least 25%

This seems much higher than what I recall.   Yes, I am in the more vulnerable age group.  But 25% is too high when the CFR in Florida is only about 3%, and maybe 1/10th of that given the untested asymptomatic cases.   


Quote
Can you spot the outliers in the image below?

I give you a more scientific chart, and yes it shows the US is currently faring the worse of 20+ nations from around the world, but still the curve is flattening. 

(http://www.bing.com/images/blob?bcid=Ttih609J6jsBVw)

P. S.  I was reluctant to show it and others to you because the US case trajectory is not good compared to other nations, knowing you would not recognize how the data are skewed by NYC.   :D 

Go to http://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus

Data rich site. 

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 22, 2020, 12:59:21 PM
That is a very easy question to answer GQ.  The numbers, even if high are much less than what could be expected for covid to 'roam free'.  We have at least a level of containment that is keeping the daily number of infections somewhat in check.  I posted a conceptual graphic of Italy daily infections that I crudely superimposed on a bell curve to show how I feel we are progressing here.  The clear area within the curve above the red line are infections that did not take place along with deaths.  Since the US graphic remains flat and has not yet reflected a distinct downward trend, it is difficult to estimate how high or how far along we in the US are within the curve.  My gut tells me we are somewhere on our end of the field somewhere around the 20 to 35-yard line, with possible setbacks ahead...

As far as Italy goes, I estimate with the lockdown that the number of infections was at least halved and deaths only one-third of what 'could have been'.

(http://i.postimg.cc/zBSfzHqH/image-1-copy.jpg)

As far as Birx and Fauci go, I expect adjustments will be made in their assessments, maybe not today, but sooner than later..

Have we really ‘contained’ it, BC?

Many of these experts seem to believe now that the infection rate is actually more like 5 times on the low side to as much as nearly 10 x what had tested positive so far.

If true, then what this means to me is, COVID is not even as deadly as influenza if you consider the majority of the fatalities are mostly with the elderlies plus the comorbidity factor.

Influenza’s mortality, on the other hand, strikes even the healthy young and relatively younger adults. So far, COVID still has not reached the averaged annual fatality rate of influenza despite actually having  vaccines for it.

Yet, strange behaviors kick in with COVID like people hoarding toilet papers, governments skid to a halt and fathertime believes he was a communist Chinese under Mao Zedong in his previous life!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 22, 2020, 01:05:32 PM
Weren't you the one who was doing all these nutty calculations on this very thread not too long ago?


Which one of my calculations was wrong? Everyone of them are right showing this virus is much more dangerous than the flu. I also predicted this virus was going to change our lives and the way we behave. Do you think the hassles in your life brought on by the virus is short term?


Noted. Please advise Dr. Fauci and Brix before today's briefing.


It's their job to give the public information that isn't going to get them to panic. They provided us with guestimates and if it isn't end of the world bad news, they will talk about it in briefings. Some estimates were as high as 200,000 dead based off the action we're taking. Then it got dropped down to 60,000 dead but the curve isn't falling as fast as people think so it's easy to see 100,000 dead now.


Giving these figures, which to me isn't that different, does COVID really deserve shutting down the entire country and society like this when we go through this almost every year with influenza?


If you really believe this virus is no dangerous than the flu and you were President, what course of action would you take? Would you let it run wild like the flu is allowed to or shut down businesses and tell everybody to hide for a month or two to stop the spread? It seems like you would take no action. You've seen what one month's worth of exponential increases looks like. Would you stall to see what the second month of exponential increases look like on 45,000 deaths? If you don't calculate the situation right and miss taking action by a week, tens of thousand will die. Miss it by a month, hundreds of thousands, if not millions will die.

Why do we even need to discuss numbers anymore? Just look what this one virus does to hospitals in the first month of exponential increase. If you think what I'm talking about is nutty. Look at what Trump did. Created China travel restrictions in January and later closed the world to America. He declared every State in America a disaster. He signed bills that cost trillions of dollars to keep businesses shut down and people sitting at home unemployed. What was he thinking man?







Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 22, 2020, 01:16:33 PM
We don't know if we will acquire immunity and if we do acquire immunity, it probably may not last for more than a couple of years.

 :D

Billy, think about what happens when your body defeats  a viral infection.  The human body's recuperative powers are amazing, and unlike Joe Biden  they has an excellent memory.   :) 

Something to be thankful for, and marvel indeed.


R-E-L-A-X   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on April 22, 2020, 01:21:19 PM
Looking at BC's graphs, I kinda have the feeling that we'll have a tail for this trend line.   Whereby we get the disease down to a fraction of its height, but nevertheless not dying out.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 22, 2020, 01:22:53 PM
Concept been discussed and practiced for long time.  Analyzed to have occurred for measles but on a temporary basis  because 1)  births constantly added susceptible people to the herd.and 2) the very high Ro for measles  (12-18) necessitated a 92-95% herd immunity threshold.    Only after the wide use of vaccination was measles virtually eliminated.  Since then, "free riders" are allowing outbreaks.   

In contrast the Ro for COVID-19 is believed to be  2-4.  The issue of asymptomatic, contagious cases complicates  the math however.

With measles, we can consider onward immunity as a constant of 1 because it is more or less permanent after getting the disease or immunization.  This may not be the case with Covid.  6 months?  1 year? many years??  We just don't know.   


 

Quote
Not for everyone.  Just 30-70% (a spread that narrows with more data about the Ro). 

Again, much more data would be necessary to build confidence.


Quote
This seems much higher than what I recall.   Yes, I am in the more vulnerable age group.  But 25% is too high when the CFR in Florida is only about 3%, and maybe 1/10th of that given the untested asymptomatic cases.
 

You caught my brain fart..  Yes the numbers are lower but I would personally hate to test the figures.

(http://i.postimg.cc/W4vHxFFF/Screen-Shot-2020-04-22-at-22-10-11.png)


Quote
I give you a more scientific chart, and yes it shows the US is currently faring the worse of 20+ nations from around the world, but still the curve is flattening. 

You guessed correctly.  The other outlier is the UK which also has a continuous flat top instead of dropping with a similar 'approach' to containment and general attidues as the US. Seems the UK is not included in your graphic.  Strange...

Quote
P. S.  I was reluctant to show it and others to you because the US case trajectory is not good compared to other nations, knowing you would not recognize how the data are skewed by NYC.   :D 

Disagree... every nation has 'hot zones' and clearer zones.  Remember the virus does not know it is in NYC or Timbuktu and is only programmed to find hosts that lets it 'enjoy' replication.  Kinda human like in a way :)

Quote
Go to http://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus

Data rich site. 


Thanks! will check it out.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 22, 2020, 01:23:27 PM
Which one of my calculations was wrong? Everyone of them are right showing this virus is much more dangerous than the flu. I also predicted this virus was going to change our lives and the way we behave. Do you think the hassles in your life brought on by the virus is short term?

Sheesh, BillyB. It's in this thread. Having me waste my time looking for that would be akin to a person smelling the bottom of his shoes to make sure he stepped on dog poop, when he already knows it is in fact dog sh!t. LMAO.

Quote
It's their job to give the public information that isn't going to get them to panic. They provided us with guestimates and if it isn't end of the world bad news, they will talk about it in briefings. Some estimates were as high as 200,000 dead based off the action we're taking. Then it got dropped down to 60,000 dead but the curve isn't falling as fast as people think so it's easy to see 100,000 dead now.

You somehow believe our current condition is NOT the result of the *panic they've unleashed* to the public so far? Considering our current state is unprecedented, how much more of a reaction do we need to dive deeper into this abyss before you can classify it 'panicked-driven'?

Quote
If you really believe this virus is no dangerous than the flu and you were President, what course of action would you take? Would you let it run wild like the flu is allowed to or shut down businesses and tell everybody to hide for a month or two to stop the spread? It seems like you would take no action. You've seen what one month's worth of exponential increases looks like. Would you stall to see what the second month of exponential increases look like on 45,000 deaths? If you don't calculate the situation right and miss taking action by a week, tens of thousand will die. Miss it by a month, hundreds of thousands, if not millions will die.

Again, year in and year out, tens of thousands of Americans die of influenza. We have vaccines for this every year yet it still claims about the same numbers every year.

If I was president of the US, I'd surround myself with blondes that look like Natasha Hensridge and brunettes that looks like Kate Beckinsale. I'd even consider all the in-betweens.

Quote
Why do we even need to discuss numbers anymore? Just look what this one virus does to hospitals in the first month of exponential increase. If you think what I'm talking about is nutty. Look at what Trump did. Created China travel restrictions in January and later closed the world to America. He declared every State in America a disaster. He signed bills that cost trillions of dollars to keep businesses shut down and people sitting at home unemployed. What was he thinking man?

Our hospital need projections were ALL overblown. Surely you're well aware of this by now, no?

As for why our country currently is at where it's at - that was exactly my curious contention in case that fact escaped you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 22, 2020, 01:27:42 PM
Looking at BC's graphs, I kinda have the feeling that we'll have a tail for this trend line.   Whereby we get the disease down to a fraction of its height, but nevertheless not dying out.

Yes, such is termed the endemic rate.

 
Title: It is not the flu...
Post by: BC on April 22, 2020, 01:33:54 PM
Have we really ‘contained’ it, BC?

Many of these experts seem to believe now that the infection rate is actually more like 5 times on the low side to as much as nearly 10 x what had tested positive so far.

The data tends to say yes as far as the infection goes with one caveat - if testing far exceeds the number of detected cases which may be a problem the US has in general.

Quote
If true, then what this means to me is, COVID is not even as deadly as influenza if you consider the majority of the fatalities are mostly with the elderlies plus the comorbidity factor.

Influenza’s mortality, on the other hand, strikes even the healthy young and relatively younger adults. So far, COVID still has not reached the averaged annual fatality rate of influenza despite actually having  vaccines for it.

I would love to be able to agree with you and your sources GQ but don't see the data supporting such.  Too many unknown variables thus far.

Quote
Yet, strange behaviors kick in with COVID like people hoarding toilet papers, governments skid to a halt and fathertime believes he was a communist Chinese under Mao Zedong in his previous life!!

Go buy bacon now while you can still get it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 22, 2020, 01:40:24 PM
This may not be the case with Covid.  6 months?  1 year? many years??  We just don't know.
   

Please read my short post above to BillyB. 

Yes, much is unknown about COVID-19, yet only the most evil scourge would be one that has no acquired immunity.  Such was the case with HIV because it attacked the immune systems T-cells. 

The leading causation of death by COVID-19 is a hyperactive immune system.  However, recovered patients have demonstrated that their immune systems have the capability to rid the body of the virus. Why would that not be retained?   
Title: Re: It is not the flu...
Post by: Gator on April 22, 2020, 01:45:28 PM
Quote from: BC link=topic=24217.msg533029#msg533029 date=1587587634

Go buy bacon now while you can still get it.
[/quote

Bacon and sausage choices at the store were fewer on Monday, with less shelf space.  Chicken too, with a sign "Only two products per customer."

Having seen a modern, mega chicken farm/processor, I have trouble fathoming how there could be a shortage. 
Title: Remember Y2K ?
Post by: ML on April 22, 2020, 01:56:34 PM
First, anyone remember Y2K ?

Second, anyone know why the most dire predictions concerning Y2K did not happen ?

Third, what's the connection with our current situation ?

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 22, 2020, 01:58:36 PM
EU on the brink of collapse: :D

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/1272371/eu-news-coronavirus-italy-coronabonds-germany-netherlands-polls-italexit-spt/amp
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 22, 2020, 02:01:18 PM

The leading causation of death by COVID-19 is a hyperactive immune system.  However, recovered patients have demonstrated that their immune systems have the capability to rid the body of the virus. Why would that not be retained?   


There may be some quantitative viral threshold that has to be reached for the immune system to 'remember' this virus.  Do asymptomatic cases acquire immunity? - we simply don't know.

I can imagine the 'hyperactivity' may be caused by the immune system somehow detecting that an unknown invader is present, but confused and fighting 'blind', shooting at everything in sight that seems 'not quite right'.  Our lungs collect a ton of crap during the day, some tolerable some not.

Much of this of course way beyond my pay grade.

Title: Re: It is not the flu...
Post by: GQBlues on April 22, 2020, 02:03:13 PM
The data tends to say yes as far as the infection goes with one caveat - if testing far exceeds the number of detected cases which may be a problem the US has in general.

I would love to be able to agree with you and your sources GQ but don't see the data supporting such.  Too many unknown variables thus far.

Go buy bacon now while you can still get it.

So BC, here's the latest (http://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/22/840836618/1st-known-u-s-covid-19-death-was-on-feb-6-a-post-mortem-test-reveals)…

So there apparently was, according to the medical examiner, two prior deaths infection in California before the so-called first casualty in Washington.

There will be a lot more revelations that I feel we'll be fed with sooner than later. I am really beginning to believe, while this should not be taken for granted, this virus was overhyped. Sad day that will be for all us considering the state we all put ourselves in because of it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 22, 2020, 02:08:15 PM
Meanwhile recent news from the UK, Witty reckons at least some social distancing measures will stay in place till Christmas. Matt Handcock thinks he will be able to carry out 100,000 Coronavirus tests daily.

Also we have fortunately not joined any EU Coronavirus scheme :D Turns out we are way ahead of them on the medicine front anyway :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 22, 2020, 02:11:26 PM
GQ,

Yes as time goes by we will learn more.

A good analogy that makes sense to me is a nuclear reaction.  Maybe earlier the critical mass had not yet reached.  Obviously, at that time we didn't even have the testing capabilities needed to detect it.

Maybe it did come from the US after all....  :devilish:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 22, 2020, 02:16:10 PM
That would be painful if so. Not because China will be proven right, but because it'll give fathertime more reasons to wish he was Chinese instead....and we'll never really hear the end of it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 22, 2020, 02:33:34 PM
Structure and Organization of a Covid-19 Strike Force

Required materials:
1. recommend at least 2  Abbott's ID NOW platforms and enough reagents to do 250 tests per machine per day

2. rented office

3. local recruits

Purpose:
Find hot looking female asympotomatic Covid-19 carriers aged between 18-28

the “con"
offer to hire them as professional product promotional hostess at a bar or club for something like Bicardi Rum, no nudity, just wear company logo shirt and shorts and it pays HUGE $$$$
BUT...
they have to prove they aren’t Corona positive so they have to take a Corona test
BUT...
you ONLY hire the ones who test asymptomatically positive and look hot!!!!
AND...
you do this as near as possible to major US Naval bases like SanDiego, Norfolk, etc
and these girls all go to the bars and clubs and give free samples

OK, see how easy?

couple of hundred thousand spent and you just took down two aircraft carriers
that were guarding the Persian Gulf
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 22, 2020, 04:22:07 PM
Our hospital need projections were ALL overblown. Surely you're well aware of this by now, no?


Having too many hospital beds is always better than not having enough. Give credit to our leaders. Overblown? NY and many European nations failed to calculate when to shut down and paid a price. Fortunately most of America acted in time.


recovered patients have demonstrated that their immune systems have the capability to rid the body of the virus. Why would that not be retained?   


Antibodies diminish over time. I put a link up pertaining to immunity on a SARS study showing after two years, the risk of reinfection increases because antibodies diminish. If the virus mutates too much, then throw immunity out the window and we hide again and back to creating not one, but two vaccines. We are dealing with a coronavirus related to a cold virus. In a study, it was observed that more than half the people in the study could not get immediately re-infected by the same cold virus they just had. The rest did get immediately re-infected.

http://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/09/well/live/can-i-catch-the-same-cold-twice.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 22, 2020, 07:43:41 PM
Having too many hospital beds is always better than not having enough. Give credit to our leaders. Overblown? NY and many European nations failed to calculate when to shut down and paid a price. Fortunately most of America acted in time.

Billy, NY despite it being struck as ‘badly’ as it had, it was still not bad enough to have had hospital bed shortage. You do know this, right?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 22, 2020, 07:46:14 PM
so now the region of Texas that I am living in is taking away the freedom of rednecks to try and infect me
because it requires everyone here to wear a mask that covers nose and mouth when they go ANYWHERE in public
this law takes effect on Monday morning
I have had 3 confrontations with young people who did NOT want to respect a 6 ft minimum distance...
which ended when the person opposite me saw me put my hands on my knife and saw the crazed look I put on for show through my full face mask
shoulda seen em take off
almost as much fun as throwin toilette paper out the window in a crowded parking lot with long lines of people waitin to get inside to buy a single pack of toilette paper
I even squeal my tires when I peel outta there, sweet
hahahahaha


PS...

OK...
the reality you guys are gonna be experiencing next year, is gonna be unlike anything ya’ll have EVER dealt with....

before you lose the opportunity...
let me make a suggestion...

go on amazon and buy a “ring sizer”
and then measure the ring size for your fingers and thumb at different points

then you buy “Men’s Tungsten Rings” in your ring sizes
you try to squeeze as many different sizes onto each finger and thumb as you can
Tungsten is one of the densest heaviest metals there is, it’s even denser then lead
and as hard as steel!!!

you can easily pile over 6 ozs of tungsten rings on each hand
this will only set you back a couple of hundred....

BUT...

in Russia or USA wear this open or concealed, cuz it’s JEWELRY!!!
and mine weighs slightly more than a pair of brass knuckles

the advantages?
legal
and you’re always carryin it

if you know HOW to punch CORRECTLY
you can break the jaw bone, the nose, teeth, occipital ridge
AND just as importantly by making contact with hard tungsten instead of your knuckles
YOU don’t get busted up in the process AT ALL!!

you can also use one hand to block and parry if they’re covered in Tungsten armor
you can STOP a knife attack with these rings

on punching...

all you white boys are punching WRONG!!!
you don’t just punch with your arm or shoulder....
NO!!!

you make all the different joints of your body work together at the same time in harmony

arm
shoulder
hips
balls of your feet

you add the motion of each to the motion of all the others, and by combining them together
then you can punch with your whole body and not just your arm!!!!
you have a HUGE increase of force when you punch this way, not just weight, but also speed
but it takes practice to do it right so that each joint’s motion adds speed and weight to the others

when you combine the increased speed and weight
it’s a one punch KO EVERY TIME
and IF YOU WANT to break bones and send your victim to the hospital then you hit the jaw/nose/teeth

it's REALLY that easy boys
to be a geezer badass
especially when you're hooked up with IG Farben!!


ran outta videos to watch
catchin up on "chores"
like takin boxes full of NotGeld notes and puttin em into plastic sleeves to put into albums

I TOTALLY think USA will have something like Notgeld in the hyper-inflation period that happens a couple of years from now
get used to a big time period of asset deflation and then price deflation in EVERYTHING
you'll have that before they hyper-inflation
that's how we can write-off 50 trillion in debt
inflate the money by a HUGE amount
and then have an austerity program
cut social security/federal payments and federal salaries in half
and pay off the debt
and the federal government takes over the manufacturing and agriculture industries and power generation industries

here are some coins I found on the beach near Gush Dan with a metal detector



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 22, 2020, 08:54:31 PM
Billy, NY despite it being struck as ‘badly’ as it had, it was still not bad enough to have had hospital bed shortage. You do know this, right?


Yes I know that but lets add some facts why they had beds left over. The federal government gave them thousands of beds and a hospital ship. NY city had nearly 50,000 infections. Some counties in NY like Albany only had 240 infections so they shipped patients out of NY city into hospitals around the State to relieve NY city hospitals.  If all of America was in bad shape as NY city, NY city's hospitals would easily be over capacity because there'd be no hospitals to help them out.

The flu kills .1% of the people it infects or 1 out of every thousand people. If every person in NY State got the flu this season, 1 out of a 1000 people would die or just over 19,000 would die in NY State. In one month, COVID-19 killed 1 out of every 1000 people in New York. and it hasn't even infected the whole population to accomplish that. It infected just a fraction, just over 1%, of the population of NY and set it on fire. If COVID-19 infects 100% of the population in New York guess how many will die. If the curve remains flat with deaths not going up or down, and a full year(12 months) pass by, 12 out of every 100 people would die or in other words, at the end of the year, 1 out of every 83 people in NY State would be dead. It would be much worse if we let the coronavirus spread exponentially. What happened in NY is happening in other countries and can happen anywhere in the USA. Without an effective vaccine, we will never be able to open up the country 100%.

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Although Trump is eager to open the country, he has vigorously opposed Georgia's Republican governor for planning to open too much too quickly.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trump-says-he-disagrees-with-georgias-push-to-re-open-economy/ar-BB133th7?ocid=spartanntp

I've been busy today and took fake news in without verifying and they got me. CNN said the director of the CDC said the second wave of the coronavirus this winter will be worse. The director today at Trump's briefing said they reported wrong and what he said was the second wave would be more difficult if it arrived the same time the flu did making things tough on medical staff. He recommends everybody getting vaccinated. I'll be doing my part. Hope its a good vaccine this year. 2Tall put up an article saying last season's flu vaccine was only 17% effective.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 23, 2020, 01:08:22 AM
Billy, NY despite it being struck as ‘badly’ as it had, it was still not bad enough to have had hospital bed shortage. You do know this, right?

It is noted you're STILL are playing down this virus' potential to ruin more lives than you want to believe ..

This video shows that despite GQB's denial issues that some died before getting near a bed, because of the wait ..

This is early April

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVp2U2p4lmE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVp2U2p4lmE)

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 23, 2020, 05:15:52 AM
Yes I know that but lets add some facts why they had beds left over. The federal government gave them thousands of beds and a hospital ship. NY city had nearly 50,000 infections. Some counties in NY like Albany only had 240 infections so they shipped patients out of NY city into hospitals around the State to relieve NY city hospitals.  If all of America was in bad shape as NY city, NY city's hospitals would easily be over capacity because there'd be no hospitals to help them out.

Now you’re extracting NYC from the State to make your point, yet the shoe still doesn’t fit, BillyB. The ship Comfort was really never used. Nor did those 4 field hospital beds setup by ACoE were necessary. As for fitting patients for citywide accommodation, of course patients will be brought to either boroughs until filled to capacity.

Even Cuomo remarked they only reacted to the projected numbers given to them. Which now everyone knows is way overblown.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 23, 2020, 05:20:33 AM
It is noted you're STILL are playing down this virus' potential to ruin more lives than you want to believe ..

This video shows that despite GQB's denial issues that some died before getting near a bed, because of the wait ..

This is early April

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVp2U2p4lmE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVp2U2p4lmE)

The discussion was about the US, hence you wouldn’t know as you’re not even remotely close to being here.

No, there’s no desert in NY nor N95 masks choke people in 30 minutes of wearing them. You’re a waste of  time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 23, 2020, 05:56:07 AM
One thing that was learned in Germany is that getting folks into the hospital at an early stage seems to help lower the death rate.  Folks that have symptoms first call their family doctor who makes house calls to take swabs and monitor infected folks in their home, on a regular basis to check if symptoms remained mild or if they were progressing and needed to go to the hospital right away - based on the doctor's recommendation.  Probably prevented a lot of folks with other respiratory ailments from getting infected in the ER emergency room as well.

In other countries, suspect the US as well, many were simply sent home with symptoms 'not serious enough' to even warrant testing and just told to call if symptoms get worse. Left to diagnose themselves as to what 'worse' is many likely waited too long not wanting to be a 'bother' for those busy folks at the hospital again.  Many were in much worse shape by the time they 'felt really bad' and called an ambulance. 

Here in Italy if you think you have symptoms you call a toll free number for your province and they make arrangements based on symptoms etc and give recommendations on what to do or which hospital to go to or to wait for the ambulance or on-call town doctor to drop by to make a recommendation.  The downside in the hotspot areas was the lack of hospital space and doctors that did not allow it all to work efficiently due to the vast number of cases.  This left many at home being followed up only via phone until symptoms progressed quite far.   Today this shouldn't be a problem with the dwindling number of cases in hospital and intensive care.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 23, 2020, 06:09:54 AM

This video shows that despite GQB's denial issues that some died before getting near a bed, because of the wait ..


This was not due to a shortage of beds in NYC.  Maybe a management issue.  Certainly not as efficient as BC describes for Italy.

Hospitals throughout America are having financial problems because of empty beds, many more empty beds than in 2019.    Nurses, etc. have been furloughed in large numbers. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 23, 2020, 06:12:20 AM
This was not due to a shortage of beds in NYC.  Maybe a management issue.  Certainly not as efficient as BC describes for Italy.

Hospitals throughout America are having financial problems because of empty beds, many more empty beds than in 2019.    Nurses, etc. have been furloughed in large numbers.

Phil, your response makes me SO glad we have the NHS  and a form of Social HealthCare .. it's far from perfect, but ...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on April 23, 2020, 06:54:29 AM

Yet, strange behaviors kick in with COVID like people hoarding toilet papers, governments skid to a halt and fathertime believes he was a communist Chinese under Mao Zedong in his previous life!!
I'm not sure but I think I just got teased.

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 23, 2020, 08:05:06 AM
….In other countries, suspect the US as well, many were simply sent home with symptoms 'not serious enough' to even warrant testing and just told to call if symptoms get worse. Left to diagnose themselves as to what 'worse' is many likely waited too long not wanting to be a 'bother' for those busy folks at the hospital again.  Many were in much worse shape by the time they 'felt really bad' and called an ambulance....

I won't comment about *other* countries as unlike a couple of notables here who insist being  experts in places they're not in, never been to, or haven't been to in 3-4 decades. (yes, you know who you are, Mr Rejected Everywhere. Get a friend), just get any attention.

That said, so much had been made about this novel virus from the onset our notable experts lined up like screaming banshees so alarmed and confused they were literally siding all the way on the extreme edges of caution. Washington and California were the poster states of how bad everything is going to be. 22 million infection, 240K dead, yadayada….maybe more if you don't do what Simon sez.

To prepare for such an onslaught, things like elective hospitalization was stopped, makeshift hospitals beds in places like convention centers were hoisted - thousands of them, etc...panic and mayhem struck - not enough ventilators OMG!, lack of PPEs - OMG! Vanishing toilet papers - OMG!! The sh!t was so bad you had nurses so scared sh!tless they were crying and damning their choice of career for getting caught in the middle of this 'pandemic', "I didn't sign up for this! Boohoo!".

Panicked was so unleashed upon the masses that rules had to be made like - "to avoid shortage of hospital beds and - egads - ventilators!!! like we witnessed in Italy, if you tested positive for this virus and determined your case doesn't require hospitalization, then stay home and isolate. Only those who are suffering severe conditions will be admitted for hospitalization."

LMAO! Losers. Hell, they even established *statistics* to plot the # of hospitalization.

We were all dressed up for the prom, man....The problem was - the big bad wolf never showed up.!!!!

So no. It wasn't about lack of leadership. It wasn't about the system. Certainly not about who's better and who's on first base.

It was all about the hyperventilating chaos unleashed upon everyone from the bat cave in Wuhan, China all the way to the cowering lonely bloke in a basement in the UK.

COVID-19, like the seasonal flu we have vaccine for, always cluster along the northerly-eastern coast states. Unlike California or even Texas, etc...lifestyle in these areas are just different.

As for why the US 'seem' to be hit harder than most countries, please get a grip! If you cannot understand why this is compared to say, Europe, then I can only wish this silly virus attacked those not of the weak, but rather those that are as stupid as you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 23, 2020, 08:30:07 AM
'Bad hair day' GQ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 23, 2020, 08:45:15 AM
'Bad hair day' GQ?

Well, BC...if this madness doesn't stop soon I'm afraid I'll be back being that long-haired sexy 30 year heartthrob that loitered SoCal.

Make this over plz...I need a haircut.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 23, 2020, 09:00:43 AM
Now you’re extracting NYC from the State to make your point, yet the shoe still doesn’t fit, BillyB. The ship Comfort was really never used. Nor did those 4 field hospital beds setup by ACoE were necessary. As for fitting patients for citywide accommodation, of course patients will be brought to either boroughs until filled to capacity.

Even Cuomo remarked they only reacted to the projected numbers given to them. Which now everyone knows is way overblown.


How soon you forget what happened in early April. You say everyone known it was way overblown but you're the only one saying that. For most of the time, the hospital ship was not allowed to accept infected people and before accepting a patient, there was a long process to prove the patient wasn't infected before being allowed on the ship. When they finally allowed infected people on the ship in a quarantined area, the infected person must be asymptomatic. How many asymptomatic people need a hospital? Maybe for another illness or injury they're having.

There are plenty of anti Trump news that talk about hospitals being overwhelmed but I'll use a media source that doesn't beat up on Trump. Doctors in NYC said body bags lined the hallway and they were overrun with patients, even non medicine doctors from other departments such as the psychiatric ward had to come help. Medical personnel were getting infected and taken out of action. There were semi trucks parked outside hospitals to haul bodies to the cemetery.

http://nypost.com/2020/04/05/doc-at-brooklyn-hospital-where-body-bags-line-hallway-patients-dying-every-moment/

GQ, you're trying real hard to downplay this virus. China, Europe, and NY got a taste of acting too late. You have plenty of examples to see what this virus can do to a community but you are claiming it didn't happen and nothing to worry about.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 23, 2020, 09:01:37 AM
Well, BC...if this madness doesn't stop soon I'm afraid I'll be back being that long-haired sexy 30 year heartthrob that loitered SoCal.

Make this over plz...I need a haircut.

Me too and I'm thinking about getting into some hard rock music and reefer joints again
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on April 23, 2020, 09:03:25 AM
Me too and I'm thinking about getting into some hard rock music and reefer joints again

Again?  We never knew you quit!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 23, 2020, 09:05:58 AM
 :devil:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 23, 2020, 09:16:49 AM
Me too and I'm thinking about getting into some hard rock music and reefer joints again

Dunno about elsewhere, but a friend I spoke with tells me that our state's marijuana shops are considered 'essential' businesses.

I can't grasp the lunacy in all of these...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 23, 2020, 09:20:27 AM
This was not due to a shortage of beds in NYC.  Maybe a management issue.  Certainly not as efficient as BC describes for Italy.

Hospitals throughout America are having financial problems because of empty beds, many more empty beds than in 2019.    Nurses, etc. have been furloughed in large numbers.

Stoppages of elective surgeries in addition to this (http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/coronavirus-cedars-sinai-says-covid-19-fears-prompting-patients-to-avoid-the-er-despite-serious-medical-issues/ar-BB135SAW?ocid=hplocalnews).
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 23, 2020, 09:28:19 AM
Again?  We never knew you quit!

Yeah the hard rock music I gave up when I had kids  ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 23, 2020, 09:31:01 AM
Dunno about elsewhere, but a friend I spoke with tells me that our state's marijuana shops are considered 'essential' businesses.

I can't grasp the lunacy in all of these...

It's still illegal here. One state over it isn't with a medical card but you have to give up your 2nd amendment rights but, the essential  liquor stores are cranking out quite a business
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 23, 2020, 10:22:56 AM
It's still illegal here. One state over it isn't with a medical card but you have to give up your 2nd amendment rights but, the essential liquor stores are cranking out quite a business

:devil: According to this (http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/brochures-and-fact-sheets/alcohol-facts-and-statistics)

Alcohol-Related Deaths:

"An estimated 88,000 people (approximately 62,000 men and 26,000 women) die from alcohol-related causes annually, making alcohol the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States."

At this point and time, based on death count, alcohol is twice as deadly as COVID-19, no? Methinks maybe they should leave those 'hospital beds' available BillyB is alarming us about.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 23, 2020, 10:42:55 AM
GQ,

smoking, drinking, drugging, driving are all things for which I am aware of the risks and to a large extent can influence my chances of survival and quality of life.

This virus does not give me much choice or even awareness when bumping into someone on the street or just being in the vicinity of someone else that is unknowingly carrying the bug.  Could even be my wife, or one of my kids.  Worse than this bug killing me would be leaving behind a family member or friend or even you GQ that later discovers he or she was the unknown carrier that most likely infected me with a hug or kiss.

I would like someday to shake your hand but I'll be damned if I'm gonna kiss you :)

As you well know, even not catching this bug affects our quality of life and will continue to do so for some time to come.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 23, 2020, 10:59:07 AM
BC-

Had an urgent field meeting in Riverside (60-70 miles from LA) last Friday to put out some fire so we can meet schedule to complete.

Sometime mid-morning Monday, our safety personnel came to my office to report that one of our field crew was at home with a fever and flu-like symptoms. After a few seconds, thoughts of my wife came rushing in. If this guy tests positive, it was possible I was a 'carrier' and I had spent the weekend with my wife and likely infected her!!!!

So I sat there squabbling about what do I do? Should I make myself an exception and try to get tested to allay my fears? Get my wife tested? Curse the project? Damned our 'guy' for not knowing then he may be sick come Monday?!? Blame fathertime for being Chinese?

Then this silly thought came to mind, and I don't know why - but it still apply.

What if *I* was the one who infected my guy? What if my wife was the one who infected me, so then infected my guy? What if WE ARE ALL infected to begin with? What if everyone else was already infected and I was the only guy who wasn't? What if fathertime was Swedish?

Use whatever else possible combination in this lunacy you'd like. What we don't know is really what is killing everything right now?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 23, 2020, 11:06:27 AM

"An estimated 88,000 people (approximately 62,000 men and 26,000 women) die from alcohol-related causes annually, making alcohol the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States."

At this point and time, based on death count, alcohol is twice as deadly as COVID-19, no? Methinks maybe they should leave those 'hospital beds' available BillyB is alarming us about.


More math fun exercises. GQ, I know you work for a construction company. You aren't part of their estimating team, are you? If you take square that is 1 x 1 x 1 in dimension, it equals one square foot. If you take square that is 3 x 3 x 3, it equals 27 square feet and is 27 times bigger than the first square. Things exponential grow when calculating volume. Lots of money can be lost if things are not calculated right. Lots of lives can be lost if COVID-19 isn't calculated right and is allowed to exponentially grow for a week or two too long.

If you compare a 20 yo adult and a 6 yo child who is taller? COVID-19 is still a child. How about we let it grow up a year and compare it to death by alcohol yearly totals? It's already been calculated America having 2000 deaths a day makes COVID-19 the number one killer of Americans on a daily basis easily. NY accounted for nearly half those deaths and still made COVID-19 the number one overall killer of all Americans. Imagine if the whole country was as bad off as NY by taking action late. Alcohol is free to do its thing. Imagine how bad COVID-19 would be if we allowed it to do its thing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 23, 2020, 11:12:53 AM
More math fun exercises. GQ, I know you work for a construction company. You aren't part of their estimating team, are you? If you take square that is 1 x 1 x 1 in dimension, it equals one square foot.

No. It's one cubic foot.

Quote
If you take square that is 3 x 3 x 3, it equals 27 square feet

No. It's one cubic yard, or 27 cubic feet.

Quote
and is 27 times bigger than the first square. Things exponential grow when calculating volume. Lots of money can be lost if things are not calculated right. Lots of lives can be lost if COVID-19 isn't calculated right and is allowed to exponentially grow for a week or two too long.

BillyB, there must always be an established 'sound' baseline in any calculation. Again, based on what you laid out above, you were already wrong. Everything else after your baseline above, will already be erroneous.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 23, 2020, 11:13:42 AM
More math fun exercises. GQ, I know you work for a construction company. You aren't part of their estimating team, are you? If you take square that is 1 x 1 x 1 in dimension, it equals one square foot. If you take square that is 3 x 3 x 3, it equals 27 square feet and is 27 times bigger than the first square.

Billy, a square cannot be 1 x 1 x 1.

Further 1 x 1 x 1 is not one square foot and 3 x 3 x 3 is not 27 square feet.

For a big laugh, ask your cement guy to deliver 27 square feet of concrete.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 23, 2020, 11:18:58 AM
Use whatever else possible combination in this lunacy you'd like. What we don't know is really what is killing everything right now?

Since much is unknown, it is killing us but that is secondary.

Knowledge is power.  Knowing who is infected, who has not been infected and who may have immunity is exactly what we need to 'adapt' to this virus and go about our lives and work as best we can without causing others harm.

14% of NY state could be safely working (with a good degree of confidence) without being affected or affecting others.  We may even be able to find out that this percentage of the population mainly consists of those in the workforce.  Wouldn't it be great if 20-25% of the NY workforce could be working today without restrictions at all?  Wouldn't it be great if those that are currently infected stay out of the way for a couple weeks until their antibody count is up to par to join the 25%.  Heck... that could be nearing 35-40% of the workforce...

But unfortunately, we're still in the dark to a great extent.

We can test the crap out this virus, but our leaders lack the will and focus to do so.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 23, 2020, 11:21:24 AM
For a big laugh, ask your cement guy to deliver 27 square feet of concrete.

Almost fell out of my chair laughing with that one :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 23, 2020, 11:24:18 AM

Hey, I'm allowed to make a mistake once in my life. At least I'm not miscalculating COVID-19
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 23, 2020, 11:25:24 AM
Hey, I'm allowed to make a mistake once in my life. At least I'm not miscalculating COVID-19

Wrong again. I counted 'two'. :devil:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 23, 2020, 12:26:41 PM
Stoppages of elective surgeries in addition to this (http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/coronavirus-cedars-sinai-says-covid-19-fears-prompting-patients-to-avoid-the-er-despite-serious-medical-issues/ar-BB135SAW?ocid=hplocalnews).

Yes, I mentioned about a month ago the same experience from my two ER physician friends.  Only really sick and injured people were showing up.  The riffraff and mildly chronic  stayed home, thinking the ER would resemble the news clips from NYC.   

However, ER is not close to producing revenues from elective surgeries such as knee replacement, ML's gall bladder removal, discectomy, etc. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 23, 2020, 12:39:52 PM

smoking, drinking, drugging, driving are all things for which I am aware of the risks



People in general perceive the health risks of voluntary exposures as lower than the actual risks. 

Smoking while sheltered at home is more of a threat to one's life than the possibility of leaving home and becoming infected with COVID-19. 


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 23, 2020, 01:12:07 PM

Gov Cuomo and most governors will probably agree, barber shops and salons aren't very essential and will be at the end when slowly phasing certain businesses to reopen. Hope you guys like the hippy look. Video is pretty good with Cuomo giving insight how he's tackling the virus and how the spread works.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyOnfK_UMV4
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 23, 2020, 01:18:41 PM
The government here seems to be moving more towards a position that face masks do help to protect you & others. However they have stopped short of saying to the public to wear face masks but rather to use a face covering, a scarf, bandana, tea towel, etc. Basically it is to avoid the general public buying up face masks that the government want for healthcare workers. I suspected at the outset that the government had an agenda as such in stating that there was no need to wear a face mask. Fortunately I foresaw this and stocked up :D

I personally think that like many governments the UK gov was too keen to shut down almost everything when in stead they could have first moved to social distancing measures first. I believe we are truely going to reap a whirlwind of economic sh*t from this. I hope that we won't but from all the economic downturn I fear it will be inevitable. Odds are many of those currently furloughed will find themselves laid of anyway in a few weeks when businesses restart but find revenue is too low to keep the staff on.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 23, 2020, 01:25:07 PM
Gov Cuomo and most governors will probably agree, barber shops and salons aren't very essential and will be at the end when slowly phasing certain businesses to reopen. Hope you guys like the hippy look. Video is pretty good with Cuomo giving insight how he's tackling the virus and how the spread works.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyOnfK_UMV4

I agree, barber shops are likely to be last as the human body proximity is closer. They will probably go by appointment only and even then have face coverings as mandatory.

Fortunately I had the foresight to buy a cordless clipper set when this was starting up. Decided to avoid the barbers as potentially already to dangerous. If I get the time I may get to it tomorrow and give myself a great new hairdo :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on April 23, 2020, 01:52:55 PM
The government here seems to be moving more towards a position that face masks do help to protect you & others. However they have stopped short of saying to the public to wear face masks but rather to use a face covering, a scarf, bandana, tea towel, etc. Basically it is to avoid the general public buying up face masks that the government want for healthcare workers. I suspected at the outset that the government had an agenda as such in stating that there was no need to wear a face mask. Fortunately I foresaw this and stocked up


Face masks don't protect you from contracting the virus.  But if you carry the virus, it will protect others from you.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Hammer2722 on April 23, 2020, 02:02:06 PM
Gov Cuomo and most governors will probably agree, barber shops and salons aren't very essential and will be at the end when slowly phasing certain businesses to reopen. Hope you guys like the hippy look. Video is pretty good with Cuomo giving insight how he's tackling the virus and how the spread works.

Wifey took care of my hair last week and did a pretty damn good job. I may never have to pay for another haircut again! Who knew?


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 23, 2020, 02:28:10 PM
Phil, your response makes me SO glad we have the NHS  and a form of Social HealthCare .. it's far from perfect, but ...

I don't believe the situation of waiting for a hospital bed in NYC resulted from how America's healthcare system is organized vs. your system in UK.   

The crisis situation in NYC resulted from factors unique to NYC, not the insurance system:

      1.  NYC waited too late to order a lockdown.
      2.  NYC's high population density created more opportunities for exposure and resultant infections.
      3.  Large cities with Democrat administrations typically have inefficient municipal service organizations, and it seems this was true for NYC's hospitals.  We will need to wait for an after action report to know if this is true.

Let's contrast NYC with my county, population of 1.5 million and Democrat leaders.  We have 14 hospitals with a total of 4,153 hospital beds.  Many more beds could be added by modifying existing space, yet such is unnecessary because over 40% of existing beds are available now. 

http://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/04/02/heres-how-many-hospital-beds-are-available-in-tampa-bay-right-now/

Since the epidemic started, a total of 153 patients have been hospitalized in my county out of 979 total cases of COVID-19.   Over the past week, we have had a total of only 10 new hospitalizations. How America provides health care could be improved,  yet it is functioning.   


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on April 23, 2020, 02:38:26 PM
Hey, I'm allowed to make a mistake once in my life. At least I'm not miscalculating COVID-19

A mistake??? Wasn't even a brain-fart. More like a blunder!!! And you work in construction,
 how do you stay in business??
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 23, 2020, 02:42:53 PM
Wifey took care of my hair last week and did a pretty damn good job. I may never have to pay for another haircut again! Who knew?

Back during my younger days, I dated a few hairstylists, and some were actually in the high profile salons. I learned that the scissors these stylists used actually cost anywhere from the high-hundreds to thousands per pair. There are reasons for this...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 23, 2020, 02:56:45 PM
A mistake??? Wasn't even a brain-fart. More like a blunder!!! And you work in construction,  how do you stay in business??

Hey, I think this is too strong toward Billy.

A simple wording error between square feet and cubic feet is one that any of us could make.

I am sure that Billy knows the difference, as some of his machines are rated in terms of capacity to move X number of cubic feet in one scoop, and some are rated in cubic yards, etc.

I remember when I was building a first house and wanted to do a lot of the planning myself.  It got a little tricky calculating how much concrete I wanted delivered when some of the component measures were in inches and I had to compute cubic yards !!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 23, 2020, 03:05:27 PM
Wifey took care of my hair last week and did a pretty damn good job. I may never have to pay for another haircut again! Who knew?


My wife offered to cut my hair for the first time. I'm not ready for it but I'll be nervous when it happens. If she does a good job on my hair like she takes care of her face, I think everything will be alright.

Hey, I think this is too strong toward Billy.

A simple wording error between square feet and cubic feet is one that any of us could make.

I am sure that Billy knows the difference, as some of his machines are rated in terms of capacity to move X number of cubic feet in one scoop, and some are rated in cubic yards, etc.

I remember when I was building a first house and wanted to do a lot of the planning myself.  It got a little tricky calculating how much concrete I wanted delivered when some of the component measures were in inches and I had to compute cubic yards !!!


Thanks ML, everything is rated in cubic yds when doing earthwork. When calculating volume one mistake with a calculator and it'll cost thousands on a small job and hundreds of thousands on a big job. The financial damage will be exponential.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 23, 2020, 03:11:25 PM

Face masks don't protect you from contracting the virus.  But if you carry the virus, it will protect others from you.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Not true, they can greatly reduce the chances of contracting it. Some masks are of course better than others. I don't bother with that medical mask rubbish, I have the king of kings, the gas mask ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 23, 2020, 03:13:01 PM
Hey, I think this is too strong toward Billy.

A simple wording error between square feet and cubic feet is one that any of us could make.

I am sure that Billy knows the difference, as some of his machines are rated in terms of capacity to move X number of cubic feet in one scoop, and some are rated in cubic yards, etc.

Back when I was heavily involved in public works, I remember the time when Caltrans adopted the metric system and issued their bidding scope sheets with metric itemization.

It was unnerving how many errors companies and individuals alike made in their respective bids. In almost every post-bid activities, companies would request their bid be withdrawn due to 'clerical error'

I remember when I was building a first house and wanted to do a lot of the planning myself.  It got a little tricky calculating how much concrete I wanted delivered when some of the component measures were in inches and I had to compute cubic yards !!!

People I know who's been in the business for decades still have a hard time equating to different aspects of transposition e.g. architectural/engineering unit measures; CY, CM, SF, SY, Tonnages, CF, etc..

Aggregates for instance, over the years PEs, foremen, etc...always seem to order far more tonnage of aggregates than what is required on a project. They all have their own silly formula how to transpose SF to tonnage. Consequently, there would always be cost overruns when the reports come back in. Same with concrete, water, rebar/steel, even lumber used for false work..
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 23, 2020, 03:27:30 PM
It was unnerving how many errors companies and individuals alike made in their respective bids. In almost every post-bid activities, companies would request their bid be withdrawn due to 'clerical error'


I've seen that happen a few times. When a company wins a job due to being low bidder, they immediately celebrate. Then after a few minutes, they start to wonder why they are so much lower than everyone else so they review their bid, catch the error and then make an excuse to retract the bid.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on April 23, 2020, 03:29:30 PM
Not true, they can greatly reduce the chances of contracting it. Some masks are of course better than others. I don't bother with that medical mask rubbish, I have the king of kings, the gas mask ;D


Nope.  The masks don't stop one from contracting the virus.  It does stop the spread.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on April 23, 2020, 04:36:24 PM


Thanks ML, everything is rated in cubic yds when doing earthwork. When calculating volume one mistake with a calculator and it'll cost thousands on a small job and hundreds of thousands on a big job. The financial damage will be exponential.

I am needling you BillyB because you want to across here as a semi-expert.

Since it is your main business, rare to make such 'mistake'. ))))
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on April 23, 2020, 04:39:43 PM
Hey, I think this is too strong toward Billy.

A simple wording error between square feet and cubic feet is one that any of us could make.

I am sure that Billy knows the difference, as some of his machines are rated in terms of capacity to move X number of cubic feet in one scoop, and some are rated in cubic yards, etc.
 

ML, sure you could call it a wording error by a layman!!

I am sure BillyB realized his error after GQ's post.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 23, 2020, 04:49:09 PM

Nope.  The masks don't stop one from contracting the virus.  It does stop the spread.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

We'll see. I bet you, you get the virus before me, if I even get it at all ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 23, 2020, 06:02:29 PM
There was an interesting local news report in Boston.

At medical group studied a neighborhood in Chelsea (area East-NE of Boston).  They conducted 206 Covid-19 antibody blood test on passerby's who agreed.  It was a pinprick test that took 10 minutes to deliver a result.  It looked a bit like the over the counter pregnancy tests.  Instead of peeing on a stick, you use a drop of blood from a finger pinprick.

They discovered 31.5% had covid antibodies. A few had some minor symptoms, but most were asymptomatic.

I wondered about 2 things: 

  1)  There is a 10 minute covid antibody test?  How can I get one?

  2)  If more people are infected than surmised, then the mortality rate of the virus is lower than currently tracked. 


I really hope we ramp up testing to the point most can get tested, whether they are symptomatic or not.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Strider on April 23, 2020, 06:49:54 PM
There was an interesting local news report in Boston.

At medical group studied a neighborhood in Chelsea (area East-NE of Boston).  They conducted 206 Covid-19 antibody blood test on passerby's who agreed.  It was a pinprick test that took 10 minutes to deliver a result.  It looked a bit like the over the counter pregnancy tests.  Instead of peeing on a stick, you use a drop of blood from a finger pinprick.

They discovered 31.5% had covid antibodies. A few had some minor symptoms, but most were asymptomatic.

I wondered about 2 things: 

  1)  There is a 10 minute covid antibody test?  How can I get one?

  2)  If more people are infected than surmised, then the mortality rate of the virus is lower than currently tracked. 


I really hope we ramp up testing to the point most can get tested, whether they are symptomatic or not.

I was in two airports in NYC, and then onto Miami and back through Fort Lauderdale airport just before Christmas.  Around Christmas I was sick with the Coronavirus symptoms for a day or so.  I am of the opinion that I have the antibodies but don't know where to get tested for them.  Testing will be the game changer, when we learn how widespread it really was.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 23, 2020, 07:32:45 PM
Steve & Strider-

Why not try going to your respective Red Cross location and donate your blood. They’ll happily test you and your blood may well be used to help current cases.

Otherwise, consult a private lab and pay to get tested. Like this example: http://www.healthlabs.com/covid-19-antibody-test?pid=9031154&iid=&gclid=CjwKCAjw-YT1BRAFEiwAd2WRtjH7G1sGzBAUxaAnrYpSVPudSVPNMg4_iblNm1mzNwMGqTicDTfqUhoCPZ8QAvD_BwE
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 23, 2020, 08:02:12 PM
"We are well on our way to a vaccine. We’ve also got a $12 treatment with the hydroxychloroquine cocktail that has smashed Brazil’s fatality rate by 95%.

Most importantly we’ve got millions upon millions of Americans who have been exposed to CoVid19 and who now have the late stage antibodies that demonstrate immunity.

It is time to acknowledge these facts, draw the necessary conclusions they lead us to, make changes for the benefit of the American people (for once), and end this nightmare.

Thank you Governor Cuomo for acknowledging it, now let’s go! "

http://townhall.com/columnists/kevinmccullough/2020/04/23/antibody-testing-proves-weve-been-had-n2567516?fbclid=IwAR1D8DVyOlwAlO3qzcowCs_uxL5vMnabTR-g0wDSIBd9QxAMSsx3Q6YByhc (http://townhall.com/columnists/kevinmccullough/2020/04/23/antibody-testing-proves-weve-been-had-n2567516?fbclid=IwAR1D8DVyOlwAlO3qzcowCs_uxL5vMnabTR-g0wDSIBd9QxAMSsx3Q6YByhc)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 23, 2020, 09:02:12 PM
Wouldn’t that be the nuttiest nut, FP? Here we have Steve telling us their result is twice that than NY. Smaller sample but as random as any other. I remember a report from Italy that said 60 blood donors showed up and 40 of them were asymptomatic who were in isolation for weeks before because of their lockdown.

Someone blow the whistle over and let the fat lady sing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 23, 2020, 09:39:05 PM
Don't get too excited over antibody tests. Remember COVID-19 tests? Many were inaccurate. Some only 20% accurate. Millions of antibody tests had to be discarded in Europe. Millions of antibody tests are no good in America. What are the chances of creating a test nearly 100% accurate  for a new virus on the first try? The tests may mistaken antibodies in the body that was created to attack another coronavirus that causes the common cold. Adults get colds 2-3 times a year. Kids, even more.

http://www.ft.com/content/a93e6b28-3778-4089-8d80-4e6775996aea

NYC Health Dept has sent alert to all medical providers advising *not* to use anti-body tests to diagnose prior covid infection nor to assess immunity. This is due to high rate of false negatives/positives and uncertainty about how immunity works. tweeted Mark D. Levine, Chair of New York City Council health committee.

http://twitter.com/MarkLevineNYC/status/1253473387948781568

In the link above is the letter NYC medical professionals got yesterday. If anybody feels better the antibody tests are telling us the truth, do what you got to do to feel better but the medical experts aren't confident in the tests or results of the study that gave people "hope".
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 24, 2020, 12:15:35 AM
Turns out that I was right on another aspect of this virus that the fatties are coming of worse as a result of being obese:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8233519/amp/Being-overweight-puts-people-greater-risk-hospitalised-coronavirus.html

So we may have a lot less fat chicks when this is all done with.

Apparently it's having quite an effect in America the fat capital of the world:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/coronavirus-kills-more-young-americans-because-were-fat%3f_amp=true
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on April 24, 2020, 12:24:29 AM
People are losing their loved ones, who die horrid, painful deaths, and you think it's great.  You really are beyond the pale.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 24, 2020, 12:31:49 AM
People are losing their loved ones, who die horrid, painful deaths, and you think it's great.  You really are beyond the pale.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

I never said it was great in the above statement, it was merely a factual statement.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 24, 2020, 12:33:08 AM
Trench,

you love to confirm you ARE a sociopath ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 24, 2020, 02:36:15 AM
A sad, lonely loser, as well as the jerkoff type that chicks of all kind, ignore at first glance.

Better for him to stick to pornhub fora instead.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 24, 2020, 04:15:40 AM
A sad, lonely loser, as well as the jerkoff type that chicks of all kind, ignore at first glance.

Better for him to stick to pornhub fora instead.

Not at all. BC I have shown you great kindness on this forum by alerting you in advance to the ravenous mob that may tear you limb from limb when things go from bad to worse in Italy and this is how you repay me, shame on you BC.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 24, 2020, 06:01:55 AM
Keep dreaming bub... any life, even as bad as you describe for me and others is a hundredfold better than the miserable lonely one you live.

Seek help.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 24, 2020, 07:41:23 AM
Keep dreaming bub... any life, even as bad as you describe for me and others is a hundredfold better than the miserable lonely one you live.

Seek help.

I'm quite happy with my life but thank you for enquiring.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 24, 2020, 01:59:51 PM
I'm quite happy with my life but thank you for enquiring.

You're being  a mite economical with the truth, there...  Who wants to be in their 40's still single and childless ?

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 24, 2020, 02:26:43 PM
You're being  a mite economical with the truth, there...  Who wants to be in their 40's still single and childless ?

Not everyone has to reproduce Mobe, I'm not saying I don't but end of the day we are all only here on this planet so long. Unless I find someone I feel really into I don't settle for less it has always been that way for me as I know it wouldn't work otherwise anyway. Grabbing just anyone or a girl I'm not interested in trying to grab me doesn't work for me. Some people will just grab onto anyone for fear of being alone and live their lives out dissatisfied with a half life. Many people make that mistake early on just to not be alone then later after knocking out a few kids realise they chose the wrong partner in their haste and divorce then go looking for someone they really want to be with, some end up on here looking for a FSW.

I have stuff going on in my life, I know what I want to do, like doing and I have a vision. If I find someone that I really want to be with then great, if not I can still do much with my life while I'm here. People are in different circumstances in all different walks of life, my life compared to some isn't so bad.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on April 24, 2020, 02:27:04 PM
Interesting article on the cost of social distancing:

http://arstechnica.com/science/2020/04/the-value-of-lives-saved-by-social-distancing-outweighs-the-costs/
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on April 24, 2020, 03:25:36 PM
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/kn042220dAPR20200422064520.jpg)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Strider on April 24, 2020, 05:19:33 PM
Don't get too excited over antibody tests. Remember COVID-19 tests? Many were inaccurate. Some only 20% accurate. 

It's early days.  The testing and medicine will improve over time.  It is worth noting that COVID-19 is 98% similar to SARS.  It would make sense that people who had SARS, and still have some antibodies to it, may also have some immunity to COVID-19. 

I travel frequently.  As a result, I get exposed to different strains of viruses.  Flying commercial airlines is a great way to get sick.  If I get sick, I tend not to stay sick long.  What I got around Christmas was nasty.  Luckily, I got over it fairly quickly.  This illness was here in the U.S. possibly late last year.  The testing will start now, and it will prove what it proves.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on April 24, 2020, 06:08:34 PM

 ………...  What I got around Christmas was nasty.  Luckily, I got over it fairly quickly.   .

Hope you got checked for STD's !!

The holiday season is a time for giving!!!! )))
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 24, 2020, 06:12:45 PM
"Who wants to be in their 40's still single and childless ? "

me, that's who!!!
i'd give anything to be single now!
instead of married with 2 teen daughters whose future just got destroyed
I'd freakin LOVE to go live by myself in the mountains and pan gold out of the Yuba River near Nevada City, CA the rest of my life until I died
but I got them kids and an ole lady man...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 24, 2020, 07:06:29 PM
It is worth noting that COVID-19 is 98% similar to SARS.  It would make sense that people who had SARS, and still have some antibodies to it, may also have some immunity to COVID-19. 


98% similar is a huge difference. Too bad a SARS or MERS vaccine was never found otherwise we might be able to try it on COVID-19. I put up a link earlier to a SARS study that show antibodies for SARS last around 2 years and begin to diminish. Conclusion by the doctors was a person can get re-infected by SARS after a few years. There was a small study of 4 monkeys with COVID-19. All 4 made a full recovery and 2 were able to get re-infected right away. There is no guarantee of immunity. There is no guarantee herd immunity will work either.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 24, 2020, 08:52:26 PM
how to run a simple depression-era scam...
or, brother can ya spare a dime?

ya gotta have an off-shore shell company located in a tax haven country like “Isle Of Man” fer instance, and this company has sterling and dollar accounts in a major UK bank like HSBC fer instance

so you pay your employees each $1,000 per week (you're just laundering money you got from some "bizness" generally to some degree not entirely legit, but makes $$$$$)
you, your wife, your kids, salaries paid from your over-seas co bank acct...
to the bank accounts you setup in your local bank for your family setup for their salary payroll...
later, pay all taxes on this using simple standard deductions...

it’s free money, for almost no work by me, just 30 min paperwork per week
plus a few hours during tax season...
government’s really happy cuz we ain’t deducting anything!!

now we shut down this business “due to the Corona Virus”
we still collect the same money but we use different accounts from different banks on both ends
and now we don’t declare it!!!
just take the cash from the ATM, and my wife does this twice per week!!!
but we applied for unemployment and disaster relief and the 4 of us have already received $9,700!

I expect that by the end of July I will be able to buy 20 ounces of gold from Apmex this way
I am buying volume from Ampex and my bank in the Isle of Man has power of attorney to receive and store bullion for me on my behalf!!!

I just have to figure out how to get it from the bank in Douglass to the USA
and that’s freakin easy
a boat!!

everything in my future involves boats now in some way, it’s weird
boats headin up and down the Gulf Stream towards Costa Rica, and...
boats headin out from the Irish Sea to South Padre Island, Texas
with aluminum cases filled with stacks of 10 oz bars
and stacks of 1 oz liberty bullion rounds
the shine in a bright light is mind boggling

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 24, 2020, 10:38:22 PM
Not everyone has to reproduce Mobe, I'm not saying I don't but end of the day we are all only here on this planet so long. Unless I find someone I feel really into I don't settle for less it has always been that way for me as I know it wouldn't work otherwise anyway. Grabbing just anyone or a girl I'm not interested in trying to grab me doesn't work for me. Some people will just grab onto anyone for fear of being alone and live their lives out dissatisfied with a half life. Many people make that mistake early on just to not be alone then later after knocking out a few kids realise they chose the wrong partner in their haste and divorce then go looking for someone they really want to be with, some end up on here looking for a FSW.

I have stuff going on in my life, I know what I want to do, like doing and I have a vision. If I find someone that I really want to be with then great, if not I can still do much with my life while I'm here. People are in different circumstances in all different walks of life, my life compared to some isn't so bad.

Methinks our Trench doth protest TOO much ....
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 25, 2020, 01:17:46 AM
Methinks our Trench doth protest TOO much ....

Mobe, I'll explain so you can (hopefully) understand, you see some guys will jump at the chance of getting it on with some fat ugly cow, they will think 'great I can have kids'. However the odds are that they will produce fat and/or ugly children, not right away of course most babies look adorable but when they grow up odds are they will resemble the parents, the fruit does not fall far from the tree as they say. Now odds are if they had daughters the daughters can do the same, they can get a guy, most likely not the guy they want and will have little choice, it is just their ability to carry children that is getting them a look in. Any sins meanwhile will have a harder time, they are unlikely to have the looks either to get the partner they would like and so will have to decide if the will settle for a fat ugly girl and have the displeasure of making out with her. Only occasionally do two parents at the lower end of the looks spectrum produce attractive children and that is usually from a particular mix of genes from both parents ending up in a better overall combination of features.

Now I'm not a guy who is willing to settle for a fat ugly girl, I couldn't do that to myself or to any children knowing they got saddled with crap genes just so I am not alone. You'll see plenty of men and women around who just don't care, they think of themselves first and b*llocks to pushing out more people that will struggle to get on or lead a happy life with what they have. I couldn't do that to another person, I wouldn't want to have children with someone I felt was well under par out of desperation for myself. Some people fear being alone so much that they will create all sorts of sh*tty situations to avoid it, I've even seen news reports on TV of women repeatedly pushing out children when they know they have a bad genetic abnormality that will mean there is a high chance those children will not last long and will suffer a painfully short life. They unfortunately don't care of the misery they are inflicting they just keep trying for more children till they have one/some that don't come out with that gene :-\ Again it's not something I would like to think I would do.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 25, 2020, 01:29:14 AM
98% similar is a huge difference. Too bad a SARS or MERS vaccine was never found otherwise we might be able to try it on COVID-19. I put up a link earlier to a SARS study that show antibodies for SARS last around 2 years and begin to diminish. Conclusion by the doctors was a person can get re-infected by SARS after a few years. There was a small study of 4 monkeys with COVID-19. All 4 made a full recovery and 2 were able to get re-infected right away. There is no guarantee of immunity. There is no guarantee herd immunity will work either.

If a vaccine or good enough treatment is not found I'm guessing this virus could go on to kill millions maybe even billions eventually. That is assuming all this social distancing doesn't successfully sort it out either. I get the impression that the social distancing will likely only just slow the progress off the virus unless the results fro. China are to be believed that you can completely eliminate it by this method.

My guess is that if it does keep returning as you suggest Billy is that it may only end when the population on the planet gets so sparce as to give a natural space barrier from it being passed on anymore. That will at least please environmentalists who think this planet is headed for wipeout in about 10 years time from now due to overpopulation & the pollution it brings instead. The other possibility is that this virus wipes out the human race in which case looking on the bright side at least it brings to an end the continual being born only to have to one day die (probably painfully) situation we all get given as part of our existence.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 25, 2020, 03:47:23 AM
Mobe, I'll explain ....

ALL you did is back up my point ...

You are a forty-something sociopath who's STILL making excuses as to why he hasn't found a partner ..

Back on topic .. I 'missed' you responding as to your law breaking
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 25, 2020, 04:53:17 AM
ALL you did is back up my point ...

You are a forty-something sociopath who's STILL making excuses as to why he hasn't found a partner ..

Back on topic .. I 'missed' you responding as to your law breaking

Mobe, I explained to you I have not been lawbreaking, I have been travelling between work and home. At home I choose to be productive rather than twiddle my thumb's wasting good time looking at twits on the internet with their sad "feeds" and "podcasts". Such mind numbing goings on is not for me, fortunately they have now reopened B&Q making it much easier to get work done.

As to a partner the above are sound reasons not excuses. Getting the wrong partner, just any partner can be worse than being alone. Some people can actually feel more alone in a relationship with the wrong person than if they were alone by themself.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 25, 2020, 05:37:13 AM
Some people can be in a "relationship" and still be alone.

Isn't that right Moby ? : )
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 25, 2020, 05:50:09 AM
And some better off with a fish in a bowl instead.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 25, 2020, 07:22:09 AM
Some people can be in a "relationship" and still be alone.

Isn't that right Moby ? : )

Ah, sheer class CB! :D LMAO :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 25, 2020, 07:47:22 AM
Mobe, I explained to you I have not been lawbreaking, I have been travelling between work and home. At home I choose to be productive rather than twiddle my thumb's wasting good time looking at twits on the internet with their sad "feeds" and "podcasts". Such mind numbing goings on is not for me, fortunately they have now reopened B&Q making it much easier to get work done.

As to a partner the above are sound reasons not excuses. Getting the wrong partner, just any partner can be worse than being alone. Some people can actually feel more alone in a relationship with the wrong person than if they were alone by themself.

Trench,

1/ Which part of driving back and forth from S.Wales to Dorst and back ( at least twice ) was 'essential' ?

2/ ..and thy still doth protest TOO much re your 'perfect partner' ...  You forget how one by one, those trying to help you WAKE UP (as to your howlers on the dating front ) have given up on you ..

Now, try answering point #1 ... point #2 isn't really the subject matter ... 'sorry' for my being sucked in..

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 25, 2020, 08:02:35 AM
Ah, sheer class CB! :D LMAO :ROFL:

Ah, I've been missing the 'joys' of CB's troll fails... 'thank you' for quoting him , Trench

Naturally, I miss my wife, CB .. but she's quite happy in 'quarantine' in Sochi, rather than being holed up on day 45 of my 'lockdown' with her M-i-L ..



Russian ex-Wife delivers her ex M-i-L and I food parcels and then leaves her car on our drive, goes walking in our pretty village and then she and SC spent this afternoon discussing the 'merits' of 'quarantine' and their very Russian views on their interpretation of same on WhatsApp ..

(http://i.imgur.com/a425kXzm.jpg)


The Chinese air freight services seem to be  working normally and SC was showing me how the latest range of bikinis look ..   I can't begin to tell you how frustrating this all is  :popcorn:


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 25, 2020, 09:29:51 AM
Ah, I've been missing the 'joys' of CB's troll fails... 'thank you' for quoting him , Trench

Naturally, I miss my wife, CB .. but she's quite happy in 'quarantine' in Sochi, rather than being holed up on day 45 of my 'lockdown' with her M-i-L ..



Russian ex-Wife delivers her ex M-i-L and I food parcels and then leaves her car on our drive, goes walking in our pretty village and then she and SC spent this afternoon discussing the 'merits' of 'quarantine' and their very Russian views on their interpretation of same on WhatsApp ..

(http://i.imgur.com/a425kXzm.jpg)


The Chinese air freight services seem to be  working normally and SC was showing me how the latest range of bikinis look ..   I can't begin to tell you how frustrating this all is  :popcorn:

And all done under strict Parental Guidance (PG) - ABSOLUTELY NO WAY OF ANYTHING HAPPENING AT ALL HERE! ALL DONE WITH THE SAFETY OF A COMPUTER SCREEN IN BETWEEN.

Well I must say I actually find myself saying I'm proud of you Moby in managing to keep it all so clean. Never thought I would find myself saying that about you. Nothing wrong at all with being a Keyboard Romeo in these very covid times I'm sure.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 25, 2020, 10:20:54 AM
..and I'll be proud of you when you can (finally) stop avoiding telling us what is 'essential' and legal about your frequent drives between S.Wales and Dorset ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 25, 2020, 03:06:01 PM
Well turns out I could be right when I said earlier that it is in the air:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/scientists-in-italy-find-coronavirus-on-air-pollution-particles/
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 25, 2020, 03:09:44 PM
Looks like Italians now want out of the EU:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/1273434/eu-news-italy-quit-eurozone-poll-european-union-coronavirus-response-coronabonds/amp

That should put the EU in its place :D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 25, 2020, 03:20:13 PM
Coronavirus about to hit Russia hard:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8256797/amp/Russia-preparing-major-increase-coronavirus-cases.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on April 25, 2020, 05:04:18 PM
Coronavirus about to hit Russia hard:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8256797/amp/Russia-preparing-major-increase-coronavirus-cases.html

Why do you sensationalize everything??? Before posting, why don't you read article and research if it is true or not. You do know how to read AND understand most words? Use google!!!

Russia has pop of ~146 million and has just under 75,000 cases of coronavirus with 5966 added yesterday. For little over a week the daily new cases has been under ~6000. Over half the cases have been in Moscow.

Yea sure, Russia gonna be hit HARD!!!! May be the reception from your Mom's basement is not good!! Try extending your tin foil!!! )))
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 25, 2020, 05:20:01 PM
Coronavirus about to hit Russia hard:


About to? Russia been severely underreporting. Weeks ago they had hundreds of ambulances parked, waiting in line at hospitals to unload their patients. Hospitals are overwhelmed. That's what is going on on a daily basis.

http://www.rbc.ru/society/11/04/2020/5e91d8e29a79474d1e49515a?fromtg=1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XSnOPy2qAM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-jAY8I20Zo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9ufy2BjYts
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 25, 2020, 11:43:02 PM
Trench,

Why don't you ask someone FROM Russian / living in Russia or in daily contact with people in Russia what the situation is ?

The regions are WAY lower in cases, proportionally, than Moscow and it is spreading more slowly than ( say) the UK as many regions' Governors actually banned non residents ad or Muscovites or even Piter ..

Now, the problem is "What's all the fuss about?" in regions that seriously restricted folk ( esp. from Moscow )


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 26, 2020, 12:52:39 AM
About to? Russia been severely underreporting. Weeks ago they had hundreds of ambulances parked, waiting in line at hospitals to unload their patients. Hospitals are overwhelmed. That's what is going on on a daily basis.

http://www.rbc.ru/society/11/04/2020/5e91d8e29a79474d1e49515a?fromtg=1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XSnOPy2qAM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-jAY8I20Zo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9ufy2BjYts

I am not sure if that news is correct.  It may be, but when I looked it up only a handful of secondary news agencies carried that story, all on the same day.  None of the major news outlets, like BBC or Reuters reported on it.

It could be true, or it could be the photos/videos were taken out of context - like a drill or some other event.  There were no other news about it after April 12.

It reminds me of the story being shared of the "Media Hype" over a photo of a TV reporter in full PPE gear while the cameraman was in street clothes.  Social groups were using it to claim major news were manufacturing sensation of Covid-19.  The real story of that picture was the reporter was at a local factory that started manufacturing the PPE gear and was demonstrating their product.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 26, 2020, 01:38:09 AM
I am not sure if that news is correct.  It may be, but when I looked it up only a handful of secondary news agencies carried that story, all on the same day.  None of the major news outlets, like BBC or Reuters reported on it.

Hi Steve, the BBC certainly did.. BillyB has posted a Russian lady's response to a Brit who loves the current RU govt and suggested the BBC were showing Ambulances being lined up for disinfecting ...( he might have been right re the one they used in the photos ) The videos we saw are those she found to bust him ..which BillyB has now posted here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52271492 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52271492)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-russia-moscow-ambulances-queueing-deaths-hospitals-a9460611.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-russia-moscow-ambulances-queueing-deaths-hospitals-a9460611.html)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 26, 2020, 02:53:01 AM
Ok, I stand corrected. 

But it still seams odd that the ambulance line was only reported on April 12 and no other date.  The second link, from Independent.co.uk, mentions the line was the result of routing the ambulances to the wrong hospital - one that was at full capacity.  The article on BBC states "video shared on social media showed dozens of ambulances queuing to deliver patients".  Not real investigation of the issue and validity of the claim.

I am not a fan of Russia, btw.  But I would like to see accurate news.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 26, 2020, 03:02:10 AM
Hi Steve,

I believe the vids BillyB cribbed prove the news was accurate - as appertaining to moment in time, at that hospital, in Moscow.

I'm not sure it implied any criticism - just that this virus can brings chaos to the best prepared healthcare systems
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 26, 2020, 08:54:04 AM
Awesome weekend so far is SoCal...These are the scenes from OC (http://www.mercurynews.com/2020/04/26/eager-early-risers-hit-the-beach-in-san-clemente-as-closure-lifts/) showing how well they're helping flatten the curvy-curve of this pandemically-induced slutty-shutdown, getting-downed Jamsey Brownies!!!

Lower-Left Coasters rule, baby!

Our bikes are tuned, and ready to roll the beachfront scenes. Yesterday, wifey and I enjoyed a 3-4 mile stroll along the water's edge from the Channel to Santa Monica & Back. Taking an occasional dipper-do with the inviting OP... early surf was superb, too.

Now if we can only all go back to work and bring on that well-missed traffic jams on our freeways, we'd really be rockin'!

And the wonderful Dr. Brix will have the time to go and see a darn dentist ASAP! She looks like a typical European with those gnashers!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 26, 2020, 09:35:51 AM
Still bad new reported for those who are hoping for immunity and for an accurate antibodies test. Immunity is still not guaranteed and the current antibody tests may confuse other antibodies for coronaviruses such as the one that has the common cold for SARS COV-19. There's a lot of misinformation out there that gives people hope. Drug treatments, accurate tests, and vaccines do not exist. None have ever existed. Don't get too exited when a news article, laboratory, doctor, or politician promotes something or reports good news. Until good news is reported at CDC or WHO's websites, good news does not exist.

http://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/immunity-passports-in-the-context-of-covid-19

Laboratory tests that detect antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 in people, including rapid immunodiagnostic tests, need further validation to determine their accuracy and reliability. Inaccurate immunodiagnostic tests may falsely categorize people in two ways. The first is that they may falsely label people who have been infected as negative, and the second is that people who have not been infected are falsely labelled as positive. Both errors have serious consequences and will affect control efforts. These tests also need to accurately distinguish between past infections from SARS-CoV-2 and those caused by the known set of six human coronaviruses. Four of these viruses cause the common cold and circulate widely. The remaining two are the viruses that cause Middle East Respiratory Syndrome and Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome. People infected by any one of these viruses may produce antibodies that cross-react with antibodies produced in response to infection with SARS-CoV-2.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 26, 2020, 02:01:47 PM

on punching...

all you white boys are punching WRONG!!!
you don’t just punch with your arm or shoulder....
NO!!!

you make all the different joints of your body work together at the same time in harmony

arm
shoulder
hips
balls of your feet

you add the motion of each to the motion of all the others, and by combining them together
then you can punch with your whole body and not just your arm!!!!


Whom are you trying to impress?  I ask because you don't know much about throwing a punch. 

You are correct to use your body, but your sequence is backwards.  Feet-hips-shoulder-arm,  the opposite of the order you give.  Milliseconds, so you can't think about it.     

And you omitted the two most important points: 

     1.  Use combination of punches.  Throwing a haymaker with the feet-hips-shoulder-arm takes time.  First, a  quick left hand jab (to the nose is good) followed  by a hard right - to the chin or the the temple dependent upon his guard. That will take care of most. 
   
     2.  Punch through the target - don't throw your haymaker at the chin but drive your fist through the chin to the back of his head. 

Practice that, and you will floor a redneck messing with your stash of freeze dried vittles.  If he blocks or slips your haymaker, run if you are not already seeing stars.   

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on April 26, 2020, 02:05:00 PM
Guys...Do your wives use this stuff?
You can't find it at the stores!
This is seriously crazy....& they can't even spell correctly---- Lyysol Disinffectant  :cluebat:  (http://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/INAAAOSw8AJepeV1/s-l200.jpg)( 2 Bottle ) Lyysol Disinffectant Spray Can 19 Oz       Time left: 3d 22h    Thursday, 2:55PM         Current bid:  US $878.00       [ 25 bids ]
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Bottle-Lyysol-Disinffectant-Spray-Can-19-Oz/313064256056?hash=item48e4157238:g:axIAAOSw~HBepJRm
   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 26, 2020, 02:27:18 PM
“ Feet-hips-shoulder-arm,  the opposite of the order you give.  Milliseconds, so you can't think about it.     

well, duh.....

“combination of punches....”

nope, just one with the tungsten rings is all it takes... a sucker punch to boot...totally my style, big friendly smile while I'm doin it
up to me to decide if I want to break bones, possibly even kill or just hurt and knock down...
depends on who and where and why
never have to worry if I have the rings on or not, or if I’ll get busted by some low level street cop and gotta pay my way outta jail for a weapons charge which even brass nucs are a serious offense in a lot of jurisdictions


BTW, industrial grade sodium hypochlorite is $350 per ton
1 lb of this will make 16 liters of 3% bleach
so a ton would be 33,000 liters of bleach

http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/solid-sodium-hypochlorite.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 26, 2020, 02:36:53 PM
Guys...Do your wives use this stuff?
You can't find it at the stores!
This is seriously crazy....& they can't even spell correctly---- Lyysol Disinffectant  :cluebat:  (http://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/INAAAOSw8AJepeV1/s-l200.jpg)( 2 Bottle ) Lyysol Disinffectant Spray Can 19 Oz       Time left: 3d 22h    Thursday, 2:55PM         Current bid:  US $878.00       [ 25 bids ]
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Bottle-Lyysol-Disinffectant-Spray-Can-19-Oz/313064256056?hash=item48e4157238:g:axIAAOSw~HBepJRm
   

I believe Gator's wife uses it on Gator when he comes home. I just clicked the link and the current bid is at $14,100. It'll be worth more than gold soon. My wife has Lysol products in our home. I'm going to show her the ebay auction and see if she wants to make some money! I might buy some syringes with needles and fill them up and advertise its a miracle cure killing coronaviruses in the body. It's true it'll kill viruses in the body but it will kill everything else in the body too.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on April 26, 2020, 02:57:54 PM
  I just clicked the link and the current bid is at $14,100. It'll be worth more than gold soon. 
  жена found the last squeeze bottle at Kroger today $3.99---
(http://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/dmwAAOSwsi5epLng/s-l225.webp)
She said come November it will be gold.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 26, 2020, 04:25:23 PM
Hey guys . . . it's fairly common knowledge that a mixture of bleach and water has same effectiveness of Lysol et al.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 26, 2020, 05:19:04 PM
Hey guys . . . it's fairly common knowledge that a mixture of bleach and water has same effectiveness of Lysol et al.


The bid for the Lysol is now at $20,000. YOU just saved everybody tens of thousands of dollars plus saved a few lives today. For that advice each of us should send you $10,000 and put you in our will. Thank you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 26, 2020, 08:55:59 PM

The bid went down to $14,100. Three people retracted their bid according to the bid history. Reason asking for retraction....temporary insanity.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 27, 2020, 07:40:12 AM
Still bad new reported for those who are hoping for immunity and for an accurate antibodies test. Immunity is still not guaranteed and the current antibody tests may confuse other antibodies for coronaviruses such as the one that has the common cold for SARS COV-19. There's a lot of misinformation out there that gives people hope. Drug treatments, accurate tests, and vaccines do not exist. None have ever existed. Don't get too exited when a news article, laboratory, doctor, or politician promotes something or reports good news. Until good news is reported at CDC or WHO's websites, good news does not exist.

http://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/immunity-passports-in-the-context-of-covid-19

Laboratory tests that detect antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 in people, including rapid immunodiagnostic tests, need further validation to determine their accuracy and reliability. Inaccurate immunodiagnostic tests may falsely categorize people in two ways. The first is that they may falsely label people who have been infected as negative, and the second is that people who have not been infected are falsely labelled as positive. Both errors have serious consequences and will affect control efforts. These tests also need to accurately distinguish between past infections from SARS-CoV-2 and those caused by the known set of six human coronaviruses. Four of these viruses cause the common cold and circulate widely. The remaining two are the viruses that cause Middle East Respiratory Syndrome and Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome. People infected by any one of these viruses may produce antibodies that cross-react with antibodies produced in response to infection with SARS-CoV-2.

Another possible worrying development reported on the BBC today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52439005
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on April 27, 2020, 07:54:41 AM
Another possible worrying development reported on the BBC today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52439005


Children are falling ill with a new and potentially fatal combination of symptoms apparently linked to Covid-19, including a sore stomach and heart problems.

The children affected appear to have been struck by a form of toxic shock syndrome. Some have been left so seriously unwell that they have had to be treated in intensive care. At least one has undergone extra corporeal membrane oxygenation (ECMO) treatment, which is used when someone’s life is at risk because they can no longer breathe for themselves.

In a letter to GPs in north London, reported by the Health Service Journal , NHS bosses said: “It has been reported that over the last three weeks there has been an apparent rise in the number of children of all ages presenting with a multi-system inflammatory state requiring intensive care across London and also in other regions of the UK.

“The cases have in common overlapping feature of toxic shock syndrome and atypical Kawasaki disease with blood parameters consistent with severe Covid-19 in children.

“There is a growing concern that a Sars-CoV-2-related inflammatory syndrome is emerging in children in the UK, or that there may be another, as yet unidentified, infectious pathogen associated with these cases.”

The NHS letter continues: “Abdominal pain and gastrointestinal symptoms have been a common feature, as has cardiac inflammation. This has been observed in children with confirmed PCR positive Sars-CoV-2 infection as well as children who are PCR negative. Serological evidence of possible preceding Sars-CoV-2 infection have also been observed.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/27/nhs-warns-of-rise-in-children-with-new-illness-that-may-be-linked-to-coronavirus
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 27, 2020, 10:49:45 AM

The auction for the Lysol was taken down. Seller probably got death threats or the listing violated eBay's policy against profiting greatly during this crisis.

I was told of a couple of coronavirus deaths this weekend. One was a step aunt of mine. Although we are not related by blood, I knew her well. Sweet lady. She was in her early 80's but healthy. Her son was a logger. I worked with him 20 years ago in the woods. He's a party animal and my first guess was he brought the virus into their home since he takes care of his mom now. An employee of mine said a bar acquaintance of his passed away from COVID-19. The guy was in his 60's but didn't live a healthy life.

I have a friend in Arizona that's a maximum security prison guard. He is now tasked with watching over prisoners infected with the virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on April 27, 2020, 01:15:41 PM
Hey guys . . . it's fairly common knowledge that a mixture of bleach and water has same effectiveness of Lysol et al.
Refill the empty Lysol bottles and call it Lie-sol.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on April 27, 2020, 02:11:59 PM
Are states under reporting death toll?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2020/04/27/covid-19-death-toll-undercounted/?arc404=true

http://www.propublica.org/article/theres-been-a-spike-in-people-dying-at-home-in-several-cities-that-suggests-coronavirus-deaths-are-higher-than-reported
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 27, 2020, 08:36:18 PM
The very liberal Washington State Supreme Court just denied most State prisoners from being released by a razer thin vote of 5-4. They came one vote away from releasing some of the most dangerous killers in the country which includes the Green River serial killer who killed 60 women.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/washington-supreme-court-denies-release-for-serial-killer-and-others-in-5-4-vote-over-coronavirus
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2020, 12:51:36 AM
The very liberal Washington State Supreme Court just denied most State prisoners from being released by a razer thin vote of 5-4. They came one vote away from releasing some of the most dangerous killers in the country which includes the Green River serial killer who killed 60 women.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/washington-supreme-court-denies-release-for-serial-killer-and-others-in-5-4-vote-over-coronavirus

Good the vote went in favour of keeping them inside Billy. I personally think they shouldn't really care if prisoners get the Coronavirus, could help society get rid of the scum who are a nuisance and prey on others.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2020, 12:57:27 AM
One report out today from the UK on the many ways the UK Employees may lose out and the stuff that is likely to increasingly happen as we unfortunately head towards recession/depression:

http://www.building.co.uk/news/furloughed-staff-at-collapsed-builder-told-they-could-be-dumped-from-scheme-by-thursday/5105739.article

In addition like I said before I can see many companies laying off staff as the furlough scheme comes to an end. This will mean that the furlough scheme for many could end up little better that a one stop before unemployment situation.

This time so far it looks like me and most family close to me are lucky in looking like we may all avoid the dole pretty much. Knowing that it can end up as a long time out of work chasing scant jobs or those that don't exist I know it's no joy and one I would be happy to avoid.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2020, 01:00:54 AM
The auction for the Lysol was taken down. Seller probably got death threats or the listing violated eBay's policy against profiting greatly during this crisis.

I was told of a couple of coronavirus deaths this weekend. One was a step aunt of mine. Although we are not related by blood, I knew her well. Sweet lady. She was in her early 80's but healthy. Her son was a logger. I worked with him 20 years ago in the woods. He's a party animal and my first guess was he brought the virus into their home since he takes care of his mom now. An employee of mine said a bar acquaintance of his passed away from COVID-19. The guy was in his 60's but didn't live a healthy life.

I have a friend in Arizona that's a maximum security prison guard. He is now tasked with watching over prisoners infected with the virus.

How do you see this virus situation panning out Billy?

I know they tried to find a cure for the common cold in the 60s/70s with no joy. Is it a case that unless they essentially accomplish what they have failed to do to date we are all eventually doomed?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on April 28, 2020, 02:20:47 AM
Is it a case that unless they essentially accomplish what they have failed to do to date we are all eventually doomed?


The "cure" will bring down the world. It is much much worse than the virus.


(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49828977906_e6a588dbda_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 28, 2020, 02:48:59 AM
No worries Maxx, Trump said we'll be back roaring in the 3rd and 4th quarter.  He created the greatest economy in history with his own hands and will do it again.

Didn't mention though that much would be dependent on what is done between now and then.  A few big flareups could ruin the deal.

On top of it maybe he'll make China pay by increasing tariffs.  - He still pushes the line that tariffs are paid by China.  Guess the greatest economic advisors in the world haven't sat down with him yet to let him know who pays tariffs.  Or maybe it's just his bait and switch routine in action.

All will perfect like the response was, even greatly perfect, perfectly perfect!

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 28, 2020, 06:12:38 AM
Guys,

You do realize that tariffs are payed by US businesses, and usually passed along to the consumer, right?  I am a bit of a wine collector and I am paying 25% more on Bordeaux releases.  I am paying, not France.

Indirectly the tariff is to reduce the demand of imported goods and in theory adjust trade balances.  But the immediate monetary impact is to US companies and citizens, not to the foreign nation.


Edit:  I didn't read BC's post correctly.  He states the same.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2020, 06:19:01 AM

The "cure" will bring down the world. It is much much worse than the virus.


(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49828977906_e6a588dbda_b.jpg)

Hmmnn, I fear your cartoon is right Maxx. In my opinion the UK made two crucial mistakes:

1). They paid out too much in the furlough payments (80 percent of salary etc). This is money that the government is going to have to find in the near future. Add to that extra borrowing and it's going to add up to a big burden to for the country to pay off.

2). They closed down industry when they should have kept most of it open (except gyms, restaurants, etc of course) but with strict government drawn up social distancing measures & PPE. This will cut revenue to companies drastically and will also mean the government take in less tax revenue.

This all means that economic disaster is all but certain in the coming months and unfortunately I don't see it going away soon, unless we are real lucky. That will likely be the prognosis for most countries globally and the more poorer ones are likely to suffer worse than us unless they specialise in supplying other countries with what they need most perhaps.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on April 28, 2020, 06:43:45 AM
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/cb042820dAPR20200428014517.jpg)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 28, 2020, 07:24:46 AM
Dear Trench,

Your ability to post ignorant tosh knows no bounds...

If we hadn't had a lockdown, mostly obeyed by good citizens, our health services would have been overrun.

Boris has made it clear that we...that includes you...will not be undoing all that effort and risking a new spike.






Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 28, 2020, 08:01:57 AM
Guys,

You do realize that tariffs are payed by US businesses, and usually passed along to the consumer, right?  I am a bit of a wine collector and I am paying 25% more on Bordeaux releases.  I am paying, not France.

Steve, I disagree with you . . . in general . . . but not in the specific case of wine that you know about.

Steve, the statement you give, just follows from simple logic without considering other factors . . . mainly competition . . . long run strategies, etc.

i.e.  Sure . . . easy to think that if a cost increase shows up somewhere along the line . . . that a price increase for end buyer is certain to result.  But this is far from true . . . in general.

In general . . . most of the tariffs will not be paid by U. S. citizens because:
1) Businesses in China (and other countries affected) will reduce prices to U.S. businesses to offset part of the tariff.  It's all about trying to maintain volume, not lose market share, and take a long run viewpoint (orientals are great at this).
2) U.S. importers will absorb part of the tariffs.
3) U.S. wholesalers will absorb part of the tariffs.
4) U.S. retailers will absorb part of the tariffs.

I have not noticed any price increases at all.

Maybe a T shirt at WalMart will go from $3.34 to $3.35.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 28, 2020, 09:02:08 AM
In general . . . most of the tariffs will not be paid by U. S. citizens because:
1) Businesses in China (and other countries affected) will reduce prices to U.S. businesses to offset part of the tariff.  It's all about trying to maintain volume, not lose market share, and take a long run viewpoint (orientals are great at this).
2) U.S. importers will absorb part of the tariffs.
3) U.S. wholesalers will absorb part of the tariffs.
4) U.S. retailers will absorb part of the tariffs.

I have not noticed any price increases at all.

Maybe a T shirt at WalMart will go from $3.34 to $3.35.

You forgot to list the most important reason China is paying. As a trade war tool, they devalued their currency to make all their products cheaper for us to buy. Trump's trade war hurts them more than the American consumer. They are gambling they can hold out longer than Trump. They probably feel he's going to get re-elected so they gave in and agreed to a phase one deal to get immediate relief. Phase two will be interesting now with the virus in the mix. Trump can now get more. The better hope Biden wins.


How do you see this virus situation panning out Billy?


It will be back but not as fast. From the time it shows up in a country, it took two months to shut countries down putting millions out of jobs. With social distancing and other behavior and business changes, we can keep an outbreak from showing up as fast. Some individuals and businesses won't be able to cope with the changes. Economies around the world will continue to suffer. There's a huge medical cost and there's a huge cost just to test. Without a vaccine or lifetime immunity, we will have to live with these changes forever. Although a vaccine was never created for a coronavirus, we have every available lab in the world attempting to find one so who knows? If there is a moment in history to find a vaccine for a coronavirus, this could be it. Labs will try to push their product and use the media to get us excited about their work but most likely one vaccine will be chosen and even more likely, it's not going to work on 100% of the people but something is better than nothing.
Title: Oxford beats Cambridge yet again, no I'm not talking about rowing!
Post by: krimster2 on April 28, 2020, 09:13:26 AM
ok, Americans...
please stop killing your vets by injecting them with hydroxychloroquine and clorox


Scientists at NIH’s Rocky Mountain Lab inoculated 6 monkeys with single doses of Oxford vaccine.
The monkeys were then exposed to heavy quantities of the virus — exposure that had sickened other monkeys. But more than 28 days later all six were healthy!!!!

God Save The Queen!!
Hip!! Hip!

this is the beginning of the end for the virus...
BUT...
we'll have to get a new version of the vaccine each year, just the like the flu vaccine, maybe we'll even get both together!!
will it be ready before the fall peak is the main question now

if this pans out, then if you can survive on your own for the next year or so, then you might be able to get vaccinated
starting with front line essential workers, etc and then finally descending all the way down to Billy and Gator, et al...
then pets right after them along with farm animals, etc

I'm going to get an experimental Russian vaccine in August
this allows me to get a "Virus" stamp on my passport for the districts I'm allowed to be in (just 2)

looks like my kids will be allowed to keep their American passports while they are in Russia, so if they want to, they are free to leave Russia to return "home"
if they come back, there might not be much left...





Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 28, 2020, 10:53:58 AM
Steve, I disagree with you . . . in general . . . but not in the specific case of wine that you know about.

Steve, the statement you give, just follows from simple logic without considering other factors . . . mainly competition . . . long run strategies, etc.

i.e.  Sure . . . easy to think that if a cost increase shows up somewhere along the line . . . that a price increase for end buyer is certain to result.  But this is far from true . . . in general.

In general . . . most of the tariffs will not be paid by U. S. citizens because:
1) Businesses in China (and other countries affected) will reduce prices to U.S. businesses to offset part of the tariff.  It's all about trying to maintain volume, not lose market share, and take a long run viewpoint (orientals are great at this).
2) U.S. importers will absorb part of the tariffs.
3) U.S. wholesalers will absorb part of the tariffs.
4) U.S. retailers will absorb part of the tariffs.

I have not noticed any price increases at all.

Maybe a T shirt at WalMart will go from $3.34 to $3.35.

I did state US companies and consumers, not just the end customer.  By companies I meant wholesalers, importers, distributors, etc.  It is a tax on the US side, whether companies or consumers.

The part about the source reducing prices is only true if there is competition for their product.  When the product only comes from China, or in my case France, and there is no competition, then there is no incentive for the source to reduce prices.

Tariffs work if there is a domestic producer offering a competing product.  Otherwise it is just a cost increase via a flat government tax.

In my case, I like and purchase French Bordeaux wine.  There is no option to buy bordeaux from anywhere else.  The release price is set by the winery when buying new releases.  Demand for bordeaux is such that they have no need to reduce the price - if US importers are cutting back, their allotment go to importers from other countries.  And it's such a niche market that the importer doesn't need to absorb the cost - the consumer will pay what they pay. 

As a side note, the more famous bordeaux wineries got tired of releasing their wines at reasonable prices and being horded by resellers and investors.  The 1982 Chateau Lafite was released at 170 francs per bottle.  A case was a reasonable $350 (after import markup).  The price increased to $20K to $40k per case.  Similar thing happened to the 1986 Lafite.  In early 2000's the wineries got tired of their wines increasing in price so drastically after release, so they started releasing them at high prices.  2005 Lafite price was set at 300 euros per bottle.   Due to great reviews that drove up demand, US importers set the price at $750 per bottle, which sold out almost immediately.  Importers that got some allotments later on sold them for $950 per bottle, and they still sold out within weeks.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 28, 2020, 01:19:53 PM
Steve, google some of the taste test results, even when French tasters were the decision makers.

Hint: California wines beat the French ones.

http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/day-california-wine-beat-france

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/05/24/479163882/the-judgment-of-paris-the-blind-taste-test-that-decanted-the-wine-world

Excerpt: Patricia Gallagher, left, and wine merchant Steven Spurrier, middle, came up with the idea for the competition and participated in the tasting, although their ballots did not count; French wine editor Odette Kahn, on the other hand, did have her vote counted, and was infuriated when the American wines won.  When it was over, Kahn unsuccessfully demanded her scorecard back — according to Taber, "she wanted to make sure that the world didn't know what her scores were."

I have taken bottles of $3.00 Chardonnay and Pinot Grigio to informal taste testing wine parties.

They were ranked favorably when compared to bottles in the $15 to $80 range.

We drink a lot of Chardonnay and Pinot Grigio with shrimp, fish and chicken dinners.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 28, 2020, 10:12:07 PM
ML. you do know that taste is a subjective thing ?

I've blind tasted a bottle of Châteauneuf-du-Pape with 7 other folk, in 1999 alongside 90 Euro cent Red Minervois - blends .. We all chose the Minervois over the Ch du P .. that cost 30 Euro

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 29, 2020, 02:57:28 AM
It will be back but not as fast. From the time it shows up in a country, it took two months to shut countries down putting millions out of jobs. With social distancing and other behavior and business changes, we can keep an outbreak from showing up as fast. Some individuals and businesses won't be able to cope with the changes. Economies around the world will continue to suffer. There's a huge medical cost and there's a huge cost just to test. Without a vaccine or lifetime immunity, we will have to live with these changes forever. Although a vaccine was never created for a coronavirus, we have every available lab in the world attempting to find one so who knows? If there is a moment in history to find a vaccine for a coronavirus, this could be it. Labs will try to push their product and use the media to get us excited about their work but most likely one vaccine will be chosen and even more likely, it's not going to work on 100% of the people but something is better than nothing.

Thanks Billy, it's good to have the inside track from someone who has got a clue. What you say sounds about right, so it may not end up in total wipeout but something that will change the way society is probably permanently. I tend to think it would be best for society to stay in this new detached way of working. If another virus cane along if we beat this one within a number of years then I don't think many countries economies would survive the cost of the economic upheaval again.

In the petrol station at the weekend they now have proper glass screens up all the way along here now. That to me looks good operating practice, in the previous week they had nothing other than a two only rule in kiosk. Other places have put similar measures in place some permanent like that while others is more make shift. I'm personally thinking though that longer term 'click & collect' & 'delivery only" will win out as the best way of operation for most businesses. Germany has eased their restrictions recently but seen a slight increase in cases of Coronavirus as a result up from 0.7 to 1.0 per person catching the virus so one person with the infection infecting 1 other person. That would mean no decrease in cases over time signalling that most businesses operating with a 2 metre social distancing measure would not in itself be enough but rather I think a removal of people from close proximity unless absolutely necessary and hence the two above models of business operation.

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/11505630/germany-bring-back-coronavirus-lockdowns-cases-surge/amp/
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 29, 2020, 03:06:12 AM
From the North: Amarone della Valpolicella http://www.santasofia.com/santa-sofia-i-classici-vini-veronesi-i-vini.php
Local from the South:  Primitivo di Manduria http://www.winemag.com/2019/10/09/primitivo-puglia-italy-premiere-grape/
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 29, 2020, 03:11:01 AM
Dear Trench,

Your ability to post ignorant tosh knows no bounds...

If we hadn't had a lockdown, mostly obeyed by good citizens, our health services would have been overrun.

Boris has made it clear that we...that includes you...will not be undoing all that effort and risking a new spike.

Of course I would not my dear Mobers but as I've just put down many businesses are likely to not be operating in a format that is best for seeing of this virus when lockdown restrictions are lifted:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/money/next-unveils-plans-reopen-stores-21943849.amp

To my mind all this clothes shopping is unnecessary to do in person and can all be done online with delivery or click and collect. It's something the high street was moving towards anyway with many high street sores and department stores disappearing, now is probably the best time to finish that transition. I'm sorry but I think the time has come to say bye, bye to the high street retail shopping as we have known it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 29, 2020, 07:02:29 AM
Steve, google some of the taste test results, even when French tasters were the decision makers.

Hint: California wines beat the French ones.

http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/day-california-wine-beat-france

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/05/24/479163882/the-judgment-of-paris-the-blind-taste-test-that-decanted-the-wine-world

Excerpt: Patricia Gallagher, left, and wine merchant Steven Spurrier, middle, came up with the idea for the competition and participated in the tasting, although their ballots did not count; French wine editor Odette Kahn, on the other hand, did have her vote counted, and was infuriated when the American wines won.  When it was over, Kahn unsuccessfully demanded her scorecard back — according to Taber, "she wanted to make sure that the world didn't know what her scores were."

I have taken bottles of $3.00 Chardonnay and Pinot Grigio to informal taste testing wine parties.

They were ranked favorably when compared to bottles in the $15 to $80 range.

We drink a lot of Chardonnay and Pinot Grigio with shrimp, fish and chicken dinners.

Yep.  1976.  There's a good movie about it - Bottle shock. 

But the top rated wines are not new releases, but classics from great vintages.  1947 Cheval Blanc, 1961 Latour, 1982 Lafite.  Their rating went up not at wine release, but 20, 40, even 60 years later.

One of the most expensive wines was an imperial bottle of California's Screaming Eagle, 1992.  It was sold on charity auction for $500,000.  Screaming eagle typically fetches over $1000 per bottle in other vintages. 

So there are outliers - some top California wines and one Washington state wine.  And some French non-bordeaux, like Romanee Conti.  But for collections, nothing really comes close to Bordeaux.  Lafite, Latour, Mouton, Haut Brion, Margaux, Petrus, Ausone, LaFleur, Le Pin, Cheval Blanc. And they are not meant to drink at release, but years later.

In 1989, a wine merchant had a bottle of 1787 Chateau Margaux once owned by Thomas Jefferson.  It was on sale by consignment, with a list price of $500,000.  It was accidentally broken by a waiter at a wine dinner where it was on display.  The insurance payout was $225,000.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 29, 2020, 07:44:09 AM
Of course I would not my dear Mobers but as I've just put down many businesses are likely to not be operating in a format that is best for seeing of this virus when lockdown restrictions are lifted:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/money/next-unveils-plans-reopen-stores-21943849.amp

To my mid all this clothes shopping is unnecessary to do in person and can all be done online with delivery or click and collect. It's something the high street was moving towards anyway with many high street sores and department stores disappearing, now is probably the best time to finish that transition. I'm sorry but I think the time has come to say bye, bye to the high street retail shopping as we have known it.

Trench, that is an opinion, which you choose to accept. ..  I don't ..based on none of us know the end to this story.



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 29, 2020, 08:36:41 AM
There are many different wine rating systems.  Each usually progresses through 5 steps (referred to as the 5 S's) and partial scores for each step are  added to yield final rating.   

    1.  See
    2.  Swirl
    3.  Sniff
    4.  Sip
    5.  Savor

     -  "Taste" is determined in the 4th and 5th steps.
     -  Scoring is based on how the particular wine compares with the expectations for a particular grape variety.  A pinot noir thus could have a higher rating than a cab, yet the cab is preferred over the pinot noir and commands a higher price.

http://www.winemag.com/2020/04/28/washington-state-wine-guide/

http://www.marthastewart.com/7570223/how-taste-wine-five-s-tasting


Some systems use different S's.

http://winery101.com/blogs/news/winery-101-five-s-s-of-wine-tasting

Others use seven S's.

http://www.decant-this.com/seven-ss-a-path-to-better-tasting-skills/

Now you can be the ulitimate S of wine tasting - wine Snob.   :D :D :D   Otherwise known as the universally disliked Mr. Know-it-all, of which we already number many at RWD.       

           
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on April 29, 2020, 08:48:58 AM
Gator,

"Savour" does sound much more refined though...

:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 29, 2020, 09:37:33 AM
Of course taste of anything is subjective.

That's why in taste tests . . . several people are involved, the more the better.

In that way, the wines (or anything else) preferred by most of the testers will likely be preferred by the public at large also.

Simply follows the concept of any results from 'statistical sampling.'

- - - -

As separate note:

To me . . . it makes no sense to do taste tests with anything except the exact same grape.

e.g.  All the samples should be from Chardonnay or Pinot Noir or Cabernet Sauvignon, etc.

And this makes it impossible for French wines because they combine several different grape varieties, ox blood, etc., in their bottled wines, merely labeling them as to what region they came from.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 29, 2020, 09:40:02 AM
As a 'non-snob' regarding wines . . . I get a big kick out of the stories where someone pays a ridiculous price for a bottle, gathers his friends together for the big day . . . and they all find the bottle now contains vinegar.  And not even a good vinegar.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 29, 2020, 09:58:36 AM

I remember a study at an Oregon university done to learn if red or white wine was healthier. Red wine was determined to be heathier. The university didn't do the study for free. It was paid for by the makers of red wine.

Lots of studies and magazine articles are paid for by the people interested in promoting their products.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 29, 2020, 11:51:21 AM
Wine tasting doesn't have to be nation to nation competition.  It is subjective, and ppl like different types of wines.

Some swear by italian wines, the barolos and super tuscans.  Some love burgundy, which actually is a single grape - pinot noir for red and chardonnay for white.  Some others love cabernet sauvignon, but even california cabernets are slowly turning to blends as the winery realize more complex flavor profiles can be developed with adding cabernet franc and merlot, which is the classic bordeaux profile.

Even wines from the same vineyard can change their blend from year to year.

I collect a few exceptional wines to enjoy in the future, but have a selection of everyday wines that includes rioja, zinfandel, malbec and cote du rhone.  I have not found any inexpensive cabernet that I enjoy.

I do my own taste test and buy a 1/2 case or case of what I like. 

For anyone interested, Alamos Malbec is pretty good at $7 per bottle at Costco. Also, for $38 the 2016 Ridge Zinfandel Geyserville is very good, my favorite so far this year.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 29, 2020, 01:56:28 PM
Back in high school, the wine of choice by some of my crazy mates was vintage
'Night Train' (http://www.citypages.com/restaurants/i-cant-believe-its-not-paint-thinner-night-train-express-6613067).

Remember that dandy?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 29, 2020, 02:08:57 PM
We should move this wine stuff to its own thread in Odd and Ends.

An interesting topic on its own.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 29, 2020, 02:44:00 PM

For anyone interested, Alamos Malbec is pretty good at $7 per bottle at Costco. Also, for $38 the 2016 Ridge Zinfandel Geyserville is very good, my favorite so far this year.

Costco is the best.  Their wines alone justify membership. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 29, 2020, 03:01:53 PM
$3 wines available at WalMart and Aldi's.

Despite what some will claim . . . in blind taste tests . . . you won't be able to tell the difference between these and wines you paid hundreds of dollars for.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 29, 2020, 03:12:28 PM
The last time wifey and I vacationed at Napa, we decided to take the Napa Valley Wine Tour. Awesome experience!!!

Napa to Calistoga is about 27 miles with nothing but wineries after wineries in between and all around. They serve a superb meal while the train was going about 25 mph. The package included a tour at a winery called
Castello di Amoroso (http://castellodiamorosa.com/). A castled Tuscan winery!!!

We didn't get out of the castle without plunking more than a few greenies. One case of their vintage Cabernet, a box of varied bottles of merlot, chardonnay, pinot noir...

We've been meaning to go back, except next time around, logging our bikes with us...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on April 29, 2020, 03:16:54 PM
$3 wines available at WalMart and Aldi's.

Despite what some will claim . . . in blind taste tests . . . you won't be able to tell the difference between these and wines you paid hundreds of dollars for.

I disagree. The experienced palette will pick out the $3 wines 9 of 10 times. That same palette will also mistaken an expensive wine for cheap at least 1 out of 10.

A number of years ago I took a college class for wine tasting. Actually, I took it 8 times IIRC mostly for the entertainment factor and it was fun. What I learned was, different strokes for different folks and an expensive price doesn't guarantee a good taste. Often there is a cheap wine than can outperform an expensive one in taste taste. Never was there a $3 that did. Those were usually the $9-$18 wines more often than not blended. I'm confident I can pick out a $3 bottle 9 of 10 times. The 10th time I probably could have but wasn't sure.  For the experienced palette it is distinguishing the flavors in the wine not so much a matter of whether the taster actually likes or prefers those tastes
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on April 29, 2020, 03:36:30 PM
The last time wifey and I vacationed at Napa, we decided to take the Napa Valley Wine Tour. Awesome experience!!!

I have done that also.

Almost drank  too many of the 'samples' at the several wineries we stopped at !!!
If I remember right, the most northern one (at least at that time) was Charles Krug.
But it has been many years ago, so I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 29, 2020, 03:52:02 PM
US economy apparently already in a bad way:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-52466864

26 million Americans unemployed which is huge. I've no doubt that the US will pull through but matters could get a bit bad out there if it goes on like that a long time. Reports today of Spain already looking in even worse shape, people struggling to survive out there on not much money or food. Italy will likely be bad also.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 29, 2020, 03:55:23 PM
Trench, that is an opinion, which you choose to accept. ..  I don't ..based on none of us know the end to this story.

Sure, but most of my 'opinions' on this virus matter have been pretty close to target most of the time so far. To date I've been getting it more right than the WHO, BillyB even more so. Luckily we're both here to give you the heads up ahead of this stuff happening, if you listen that is ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on April 29, 2020, 04:41:25 PM
$3 wines available at WalMart and Aldi's.

Despite what some will claim . . . in blind taste tests . . . you won't be able to tell the difference between these and wines you paid hundreds of dollars for.

Only if you had 6 gin martinis before the tasting. 

You must be pulling our leg.  The $3 wines are $3 for one reason.  If they bear some semblance of "being just okay" they would be priced at $5.  :D ;D    Wine-in-a-box is maybe better.   :o  If you want to save money, I suggest Kool-Aid and a touch of grain alcohol.   

I will say this - years ago the research biochemists and their GC-MS analyses  at UCal vastly improved wine making, identifying the specific constituents derived from the soils and climate that yielded the best rated wines.  Mass production today is better than your father's  Mogen David.  Today, they even attempt to duplicate the aging in barrels by immersing staves in  tanks following fermentation, if not some chemical flavoring.  To top it off, these mass produced  wines are devoid of bacteria, having been filtered following fermentation.    No, they are not the same as the smaller-scale vintners.  Mickey D's vs. NOLA restaurants. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on April 29, 2020, 05:29:48 PM
We should move this wine stuff to its own thread in Odd and Ends.

An interesting topic on its own.

Odd and Ends

Where 99% of the threads on this forum should be!!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on April 29, 2020, 07:36:20 PM
Odd and Ends

Where 99% of the threads on this forum should be!!!

Hahah!

But LAman, to be fair it’s been years since the discussion aptly served the title of the site anyway.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on April 29, 2020, 08:38:09 PM
Epiphanies from a bunker somewhere in the post-Apocalypse American wasteland...

I
my positive contributions to humanity will hopefully not fail to mention the “CarryKeet”
which are Parakeets trained as carrier pigeons
to be used during the post plague years in the Texas Waste Lands...

II
Ramsey statistical theory tells us that among any six users of Facebook, there will always be either a trio of mutual friends or a trio in which none are friends.
You should have seen the Russian reaction when I ‘splained it to them!

III
Russians be lookin at:

    Al Sulayyil ballistic missile base
    Al-Watah ballistic missile base
    King Abdulaziz Air Base
    King Abdulaziz Naval Base
    King Saud Air Base
    King Faisal Naval Base
    King Faisal Air Base
    King Khalid Military City
    King Fahad Air Base
    King Abdullah Air Base
    King Salman Air Base
    Prince Sultan Air Base
    Eskan Village Air Force Base in Riyadh

in‘n’out from Crimea to the Chorny Moira and then through those “Darned  Dardanelles” all the blue Med

couple of more months the rail link will be workin on the bridge to Cry Me A
and that means the military can move a lot of bulk to the med i terr renea
when the player are gonna get ready ready to rumble
there will be a big and fast buildup of Russian missile and air power in Iran
that NEEDS that rail link

IV
religion is based on the deliberate misuse of the logic of language
applied to a group of people who are willing to suspend their disbelief
in exchange for a false promise
and the fact that no customer
will ever come back and ask for a refund

V
Why Rednecks are having trouble dealing with the virus!!
It's because you're asking them to do something, like stay at home....
in exchange they expect something directly positive to themselves
like money, for instance...
but, if the positive, is other people not dying, or less people dying
because it's not something directly positive for them
they reject it...

this is how reactionary rednecks think now
why should they sacrifice for some random person's life
they don't care

so there are people who will  take the devil's bargain
who are willing to pay whatever they think the "fair market value' is for their soul...
all because of some random thing that gave em Corona
and killed em
while they were chasing a dollar...
how many of you rednecks will that be?

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 29, 2020, 11:11:37 PM
My sister used to drink 2 buck chuck from Trader Joe's.  In MA, several years ago, there were only 2 TJ stores nearby that could sell alcohol.  She used to drive 30 miles to the nearest one and get 3-5 cases at a time.  Also, in MA, it was actually $3 per bottle.

One christmas I gave her a bottle of Chateauneuf from my collection - a 2007 Clos des Papes.  A few weeks later she opened it, had a glass, and hated it.  She kept the bottle and let it sit on the counter with the cork loosely pressed on.  A week later she decide to try it again before tossing it.  She loved it.  She said it was incredible and talks about it every now and then.

I do my own taste test, as mentioned, about once or twice a year.  The $3 wines are easy to identify.  They are easy drinking for the most part, but have a non-distinct flavor profile and thin to the palate.  This is for the "good" $3 ones. There are some truly horrible ones out there as well.

This last round I tried the 2017 Dry Creek Zinfandel, heritage vines (Sonoma), which was on this year's top 100 wines list on wine spectator.  It was at my local mega liquor store, for a pretty good price ($17 I think).  It was like bottled jam - not sweet, but overriding fruit flavor and not much else.   I kept it to use someday if I'm making some dessert that requires wine.  Night and day difference from the other zinfandel (Ridge).


When I have dinner parties and have some wines out, and my friends ask what is a good wine, I point out to them to the bottle that is empty.  The good one will be drunk almost unconsciously, while the glasses of the mediocre ones will be nursed or left on the counter.  And my friends couldn't really tell me why they drank this and not that - they just drink the good ones pretty fast.  Even friends who only have a glass to be sociable will drain a bottle of a good one pretty fast.

The above is true when my friends are mostly sober, that is.  After about 3 glasses they then drink just about anything put in front of them (as long as it's not horrible).
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on April 29, 2020, 11:34:13 PM
I have done that also.

Me, too in 1989 .. It was owned by a 'Spagetti millionaire' ( 'king' ?) and some of the locals were telling me how they resented the line ...  I LOVED it ... Drove up from SF and had to drive back, so only one glass of Chardonnay for me ((



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on April 30, 2020, 05:06:28 AM
Meanwhile back to the virus chat...If I understand this correctly, should her husband have died yesterday of the covid---
 leaving her with thousands in hospital and funeral bills and his stimulus check comes today---she will have to send it back :o
http://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/29/stimulus-checks-sent-to-dead-people-should-be-returned-mnuchin-says.html
 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on April 30, 2020, 01:33:31 PM
Hahah!

But LAman, to be fair it’s been years since the discussion aptly served the title of the site anyway.

So we should perpetuate talk of anything but relationships??

I know, I know , you are speaking of the relationship of a wine to one's palette!!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 30, 2020, 03:23:00 PM
One of the big things that hasn't been reported in the UK is that they don't seem to be reporting the number of recoveries in the UK. They must have known what they are for a number of weeks now but they seem to be refusing to release them. My thoughts are that they probably knew the NHS would struggle due to various reasons, funding, PPE, staffing, training, etc and decided not to report recoveries so to avoid demoralising the staff and giving out bad press to the general public. My thoughts are that there is a lower chance of recovery in the UK to other western nations because of this, quite possibly far less giving anyone going into hospital with a serious case of it little reason for optimism. Since we have had more deaths than most other European nations at this point that would suggest (population count taken into account) that we are likely having less recoveries. Myself I find it rather disengeneous not to publish recovery rates, to my mind it is fiddling the figures like the WHO did at the beginning of all of this virus situation by setting deaths against all those that caught the virus but had not yet seen it through.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on April 30, 2020, 06:15:25 PM

Russia still have ambulances in line to unload. Lots of medical personnel getting infected and two dozen hospitals had to get shut down.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/anger-rises-among-russias-doctors-as-coronavirus-hospitals-get-put-on-lockdown/ar-BB13qi9n?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Davo on April 30, 2020, 06:55:07 PM
Thing are looking good down here.... We now only have 14 existing cases in our state and no new infections for a while now.  It’s probable that it will be eradicated all together and hopefully in all of our country in the not to distant future too. Most people have followed the restrictions and social isolating ($1000 fine if you don’t) and we are seeing the rewards of doing the right thing.

I read some members humourous over the top apocalyptic actions, but realistically all that’s needed is some common sense.... stay home in your local community and only go out for essentials and work. For most people down here, it’s been life as usual, apart from a less active social life. The biggest issue has been finding toilet paper, which is now back on shelves more regularly. In May lots of restrictions will be eased or lifted and even non essential sectors like sport will start again in some states.

Business is booming for both my jobs, one because of the drought breaking and government tax changes due to the crisis and the other due to the low Aussie dollar ... It seems Americans have been spending up big on their cars during the lockdown and the biggest issue ATM is getting the parts on planes and at a good price.

My only concern is when I can travel again. I planned a trip in October, but it’s all up in the air atm and k has suggested early next year because there’s already been some backlash in her city with foreigners on boats coming ashore and they aren’t welcome. I can’t see our border opening up anytime soon. Maybe when it does, it will be only to countries who have eradicated the virus too..... time will tell.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 01, 2020, 02:39:38 AM
My only concern is when I can travel again. I planned a trip in October, but it’s all up in the air atm and k has suggested early next year because there’s already been some backlash in her city with foreigners on boats coming ashore and they aren’t welcome. I can’t see our border opening up anytime soon. Maybe when it does, it will be only to countries who have eradicated the virus too..... time will tell.

Hi Davo, good to hear you are getting through it all ok down under. I guess one option for a meet up could be a third country to meet my up in. If you have met 'k' then it should be all good. I can see many tourist countries in the med and elsewhere eager to restore the tourist trade they rely so heavily upon as soon as possible and will likely be far less fussy about foreigners as a result. I would be careful on your choice though as if you choose a country where the economy is really tanking it, it may not be a pretty sight:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/11516638/europe-economy-crisis-coronavirus-recession-france-italy-spain/amp/
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 01, 2020, 03:17:38 AM
Coronavirus: Northumberland brewery gives away surplus beer

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-52488571 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-52488571)

Bugger, Why did I move from there in 2014 ?

Now that might be an 'essential' journey ..


PS This poster hasn't touched a drop of alcohol since March 7th and will not drink until he can drink in the company of real .. not virtual,  company.. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on May 01, 2020, 08:48:22 AM
  It’s probable that it will be eradicated all together and hopefully in all of our country in the not to distant future too.

Davo, that's the most 'over the top' optimistic prediction I have seen or heard anywhere !!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on May 01, 2020, 09:24:22 AM
Davo, that's the most 'over the top' optimistic prediction I have seen or heard anywhere !!

There is a better chance of aliens landing on earth and destroying humanity!!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 01, 2020, 09:55:29 AM
Davo, that's the most 'over the top' optimistic prediction I have seen or heard anywhere !!

ML, with the will we can get very close, enough so to make it's power over us minimal.

1. Take away it's fuel and contain what's left which is the quick and easy way, or 2. let it kill who it wants to kill which is the long hard way which still requires a good bit of Nr. 1.

We don't have any other options today.

Which are you for?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 01, 2020, 09:58:29 AM
Davo, that's the most 'over the top' optimistic prediction I have seen or heard anywhere !!

Actually its so close as to be considered true.  NZ claims to have done even better.   

From CNN:     

    AU  "...on Friday, the entire country reported just 16 new cases, a sharp decline from a peak of 460 new infections on March 28."

    NZ  "...on Monday, New Zealand reported just one new case."

It seems AU and NZ implemented stringent, early measures, enabling contact tracing of the relatively small number of infection cases.  In other words, the horse never got out of the barn. NZ stated "....there was only one case since April 1 where authorities were still investigating the source of infection."

Now AU and NZ will ease their mitigation restrictions.  Some observers remain skeptical, expecting outbreaks.  Here's the rub.  The opinion is NZ implemented even harsher measures than AU, and its economy in comparison with AU has suffered more and will recover at a slower pace, falling well short of its former level of tourism.   

http://www.wsj.com/articles/both-new-zealand-and-australia-contained-coronavirus-but-one-is-set-to-pay-a-heavier-price-11588158002
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 01, 2020, 10:04:36 AM
Tourism from other countries is pretty much gone until an effective vaccine is found anyway.  Countries that have worked hard to bring infection levels to within effective test track and trace levels will not give it up easily.

There is still plenty in Italy I have not seen yet so it will keep me for a while without trouble.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 01, 2020, 10:53:25 AM
Tourism from other countries is pretty much gone until an effective vaccine is found anyway. 

Good point, especially if one has to get on an airplane.   In Florida, it will be a long while before Disney parks return to their long lines. 

I am going nuts sheltering about the home.   Getting out in beautiful weather of Springtime in Florida for a short walk in nature or playing golf is saving me.  I can not imagine what it will be like when summer hits. 

We will need to get in the car and go somewhere with cool weather.  I am trying to get the wife to think about it.  I don't have answers for her questions about hotels, restaurants, etc. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 01, 2020, 11:26:26 AM
Gator,

Next week over here we'll be quite free to roam town, visit friends and family but still being careful. We can go to other towns within the region for necessities such as work which now will include around 80% of jobs.

At mid-month, other decisions can be made to loosen up further based on our performance.  If we are good boys and girls we'll get more liberties.  If we are bad boys and girls we will get locked down again without affecting neighbouring regions.  At the same time, testing and tracing of remnants will continue until a viable vaccine is available. Next month maybe we can start slowly opening up more, with all jobs opened up and travel to neighbouring regions, etc or get rid of masks. I'll finally be able to get a hair cut in June.  Appointment already made for 2 June with a new app the barbershop uses. In summer we can maybe doff the masks, enjoy our favourite restaurant again, the beach. When good antibody testing is available even more.

We're buying time as best we can until a true and complete solution is available.  Making the best out of a bad situation is in many ways bringing us together.  We're sharing more, waiting in line patiently(In Italy till now an impossible undertaking), thinking more about our families and friends.  We can make bad better and as long as progress is made we can be happy about it taking small, responsible steps.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 01, 2020, 12:13:00 PM
dear readers,

even if we continue with strict social distancing,
there's still a significant chance of a major new outbreak this winter.
If it turns out that recovered individuals only have temporary immunity, the virus will probably enter into regular circulation, causing annual outbreaks.
If there are strong seasonal effects on transmission, the wintertime outbreaks may very well be worse than the initial ones.
and truth is beauty, and beauty truth
and on Earth
this is all ya really need to know

meanwhile, dear readers,
The Federal Reserve's balance sheet increased to a record $6.70 trillion this week...
wow!

The central bank's balance sheet as of Wednesday was about $81.75 billion higher than the $6.62 trillion a week earlier, data released by the Fed on Thursday showed.
what a burn rate

In all the Fed's stash of assets is up nearly 60% from just $4.2 trillion in early March, when it slashed interest rates to zero, restarted bond purchases and rolled out an unprecedented range of programs to keep credit flowing and shore up business and household confidence as the outbreak forced a wave of stay-at-home orders across the country, torpedoing economic activity.

It is now the equivalent of more than 31% of the size of the U.S. economy at the end of the first quarter, and will certainly grow larger in the weeks ahead as the Fed keeps piling on assets as the economy shrinks even further.

The U.S. economy contracted at a 4.8% annualized rate in the first quarter on the back of widespread shutdowns of nonessential business aimed at containing the spread of the disease. It may shrink at four times that rate or more in the second quarter with more than 30 million Americans thrown out of work since March 21.

so yeah, deflation and inflation
watch the price rise of food lead to general inflation
means dollar will be greatly devalued against gold, etc
by next year


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 01, 2020, 12:47:28 PM
there's still a significant chance of a major new outbreak this winter.


Why do we have to wait for Winter to see a second outbreak? Singapore was the "model" all nations was suppose to follow to stop the virus and the second outbreak they're facing right now in hot, humid weather is much worse than the first.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: JohnDearGreen on May 01, 2020, 01:44:22 PM

Russia still have ambulances in line to unload. Lots of medical personnel getting infected and two dozen hospitals had to get shut down.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/anger-rises-among-russias-doctors-as-coronavirus-hospitals-get-put-on-lockdown/ar-BB13qi9n?ocid=spartanntp (http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/anger-rises-among-russias-doctors-as-coronavirus-hospitals-get-put-on-lockdown/ar-BB13qi9n?ocid=spartanntp)



They have refrigerated trucks at hospitals also, but not being used yet.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/04/25/ruco-a25.html (http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/04/25/ruco-a25.html)
http://www.fontanka.ru/2020/05/01/69238090/ (http://www.fontanka.ru/2020/05/01/69238090/)


Plans being prepared to road block city of St. Petersburg
http://www.fontanka.ru/2020/04/18/69099877/ (http://www.fontanka.ru/2020/04/18/69099877/)
— Eight refrigerated containers to store the bodies of deceased coronavirus patients have been installed at hospitals in St. Petersburg, the local Fontanka.ru news website reported (http://www.fontanka.ru/2020/04/30/69236575/). The city's health department told Fontanka that the containers aren't being used yet and are a precautionary step in case the number of deaths rises
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 01, 2020, 05:27:27 PM
Eight refrigerated containers to store the bodies of deceased coronavirus patients have been installed at hospitals in St. Petersburg,


That's not bad. NYC had ordered over 50 refrigerated trucks for their outbreak.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on May 01, 2020, 07:15:34 PM
That's not bad. NYC had ordered over 50 refrigerated trucks for their outbreak.

I wondered who put in that big order for Corona's !!!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Davo on May 02, 2020, 03:43:41 PM
Actually its so close as to be considered true.  NZ claims to have done even better.   

From CNN:     

    AU  "...on Friday, the entire country reported just 16 new cases, a sharp decline from a peak of 460 new infections on March 28."

    NZ  "...on Monday, New Zealand reported just one new case."

It seems AU and NZ implemented stringent, early measures, enabling contact tracing of the relatively small number of infection cases.  In other words, the horse never got out of the barn. NZ stated "....there was only one case since April 1 where authorities were still investigating the source of infection."

Now AU and NZ will ease their mitigation restrictions.  Some observers remain skeptical, expecting outbreaks.  Here's the rub.  The opinion is NZ implemented even harsher measures than AU, and its economy in comparison with AU has suffered more and will recover at a slower pace, falling well short of its former level of tourism.   

http://www.wsj.com/articles/both-new-zealand-and-australia-contained-coronavirus-but-one-is-set-to-pay-a-heavier-price-11588158002

It kind of snuck up on me because I hadn’t been watching the news much lately. I kept hearing about the corona countdown.... We are in day 10 of the countdown (or up) with no new infections and at the one month mark will be declared corona free. Since my last post the active cases have dropped from 14 to 7, so give it another week and my state could be unofficially free of the virus. I think there’s still the risk of a second wave during our cold and flu season, but if we keep our state borders closed and everyone downloads our new Coronavirus app which makes it easy to trace those who’ve potentially had exposure, we might be lucky.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 02, 2020, 09:08:50 PM

12 yo girl nearly died. She had multiorgan system failure and as a result, had a heart attack. People may not care about the old folks dying but when kids die, it's going to get a lot of people worked up.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/i-died-and-came-back-12-year-old-recovers-from-virus/ar-BB13t8AT?ocid=spartanntp


A damning 5 eyes intelligence dossier leaked believing the virus came from a lab, China covered it up and lied to the world about the behavior of the virus.

http://nypost.com/2020/05/02/intelligence-report-says-china-lied-about-origin-of-coronavirus/
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 03, 2020, 12:34:38 AM
BillyB

What part of a statement from your very own intelligence service, which suggests your President is LYING about 'evidence', was too hard for you to understand re the Wuhan Bio-labs?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 03, 2020, 12:48:33 AM
BillyB

What part of a statement from your very own intelligence service, which suggests your President is LYING about 'evidence',


None. Quote the intelligence agency in full and you'll find you're wrong again.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 03, 2020, 12:59:48 AM
None. Quote the intelligence agency in full and you'll find you're wrong again.

'Indulge' me with your 'English interpretation' that makes you arrive at your 'assertion' , please ..   To me, it was very clear ... a diplomatically phrased, our 'leader' is misleading you, again ..

Expect yet  another senior post to be vacated for daring to differ
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 03, 2020, 05:19:36 AM
It kind of snuck up on me because I hadn’t been watching the news much lately. I kept hearing about the corona countdown.... We are in day 10 of the countdown (or up) with no new infections and at the one month mark will be declared corona free. Since my last post the active cases have dropped from 14 to 7, so give it another week and my state could be unofficially free of the virus. I think there’s still the risk of a second wave during our cold and flu season, but if we keep our state borders closed and everyone downloads our new Coronavirus app which makes it easy to trace those who’ve potentially had exposure, we might be lucky.

Excellent news.   

I assume your cold and flu season peaks in the winter, which starts soon in the southern hemisphere. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on May 03, 2020, 05:33:29 AM

The "cure" will bring down the world. It is much much worse than the virus.


(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49828977906_e6a588dbda_b.jpg)
I see here in the US we are up to about 65,000 dead.  I'm curious what that number would have been had absolutely nothing were done.  Perhaps millions.  I'm also curious to see what the number would have been had some precautions been taken with vulnerable groups only.  Perhaps then we would have some number in between...say several hundred thousand. 

I'm seeing people start to protest not being able to work, or go to the beach.  Governor Newsom (In California) soon should just let the chips fall where they may if that is what the people are demanding.  More will be dead I'm sure of that, but so be it, if that is what the people want. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 03, 2020, 09:54:53 AM
'Indulge' me with your 'English interpretation' that makes you arrive at your 'assertion' , please ..   To me, it was very clear ... a diplomatically phrased, our 'leader' is misleading you, again ..

Expect yet  another senior post to be vacated for daring to differ

If it was very clear to you, quote the intelligence agency. BC posted a photo of what they said and I read it and it didn't contradict the President. The way the media wrote articles made you believe they contradicted the President. When will you learn not to believe everything you read from the biased media? Never, because you enjoy that kind of reading too much.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 03, 2020, 10:02:56 AM
oh Billy...
NY Post is owned by Jared Kushner, it's Fox Lite
it's his personal mouthpiece
propaganda != Truth
unless you're a Republican...
and you repeat the lies endlessly enough
until they are true, blue American lies
believed by masses of dumb phuques

lots of scientific journals available to talk about SARS and Corona...
I'd stay away from Kushner Media, unless you want some Trump Praising stories to make you feel good about voting for him and destroying your country in the process...
my guess is, you probably need that about now



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 03, 2020, 10:19:40 AM

Krim, you were so fast to embrace the Steele dossier, I thought you'd be embracing a dossier leaked from the 5 eyes nations saying China lied. Not what you want to hear? Does anybody really need a dossier to tell them China lied about the virus?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Confederate on May 03, 2020, 10:47:04 AM
"Who wants to be in their 40's still single and childless ? "

me, that's who!!!
i'd give anything to be single now!
instead of married with 2 teen daughters whose future just got destroyed
I'd freakin LOVE to go live by myself in the mountains and pan gold out of the Yuba River near Nevada City, CA the rest of my life until I died
but I got them kids and an ole lady man...


Pathetic. Dewd got married to get laid, now wishing he were single again.

Too late bud, you’re on the hook for life.

    :ROFL:       :ROFL:        :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 03, 2020, 10:57:41 AM
how old are you - 12?
do you know ANYTHING about having MULTIPLE Russian GFs, or even a Russian wife, or raising two daughters with her, now college age...
NO YOU DON'T!!!
GTF out of my face you sad little fascist boot licking BOY...

I'm a freakin GROWN-ASSED MAN
you're obviously too young and inexperienced
to fight someone like me...
I'll be happy to prove it to you if you so wish...
otherwise, stop peddling the Kool-Aid on RWD
most of the people here already drank it anyway

PS
"Does anybody really need a dossier to tell them China lied about the virus?"

Why the f%ck would you expect them to tell the truth in the first place?
tell me once when they did?
so it's irrelevant....

if you had a TV in mid January, you saw people dead in the street in Wuhan on CNN...
this is all the warning the USA needed to shutdown commercial air traffic and require quarantining...
Trump ordered the shutdown from China only AFTER the airlines were voluntarily suspending the flights
but TOO late....
 

stop blaming China for Trump's failures



 

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 03, 2020, 11:44:59 AM
Well, we can see how this virus is affecting conspiracy theory 'fans' ...

They have EVEN more time on their hands to trawl the internet.

Why are serially single ?...

Who can guess  :popcorn:

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on May 03, 2020, 12:20:53 PM
Sen. Kamala Harris Is Introducing A Bill To Address The Racial Disparity In Coronavirus Cases
 Harris's bill would establish a task force to gather data and provide recommendations on coronavirus response for people of color who have been disproportionately affected by the disease.
Quote
WASHINGTON — Sen. Kamala Harris will introduce, on Monday, legislation to create a task force to address the racial disparity plaguing communities of color amid the coronavirus (http://www.buzzfeednews.com/collection/coronavirus) global pandemic.
The COVID-19 Racial Disparities Task Force Act (http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6879961-COVID-19-Racial-and-Ethnic-Disparities-Task.html), which BuzzFeed News received in advance, would require the director of Secretary of Health and Human Services, Alex Azar, to create a panel of health care experts and community leaders to gather data and provide recommendations on the coronavirus response in communities of color who have been disproportionately affected by the disease.
Harris’s proposal comes after BuzzFeed News reported that the coronavirus has killed black Americans at outsize rates throughout the US. (http://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/danvergano/coronavirus-black-americans-covid19) Insufficient housing, high-risk jobs (http://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kadiagoba/coronavirus-new-york-brooklyn-essential-workers-black-poc), and poor health — all a result of longstanding inequalities — contribute to the disparity, experts say.

In New York City, which has become the epicenter of the global pandemic, black and Hispanic people account for more than 60% (http://covid19tracker.health.ny.gov/views/NYS-COVID19-Tracker/NYSDOHCOVID-19Tracker-Fatalities?%3Aembed=yes&%3Atoolbar=no&%3Atabs=n) of deaths in, according to state data. The disparity also exists in other metropolitan areas, including in Chicago, Milwaukee, and Louisiana.
http://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kadiagoba/kamala-harris-coronavirus-people-of-color-task-force


IOW...More white people than black should be dying?
Shouldn't she be made aware of this.....?
Quote
April 25, a viral video (http://slack-redir.net/link?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DJi3EQLBRSRA) showed a gathering of dozens (http://slack-redir.net/link?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.chicagotribune.com%2Fcoronavirus%2Fct-coronavirus-chicago-house-party-lori-lightfoot-20200427-f4ymseyklbhbzamcvei7zaee5i-story.html) of people in the Northwest Side neighborhood of Galewood at a memorial party for two friends who died of gun violence years ago. The video drew such a level of nationwide vitriol on social media that Mayor Lori Lightfoot blasted the revelers as “foolish and reckless,” and Gov. J.B. Pritzker criticized the partygoers for “putting everyone around you in danger.” (Tribune columnist, Dahleen Glanton (http://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/dahleen-glanton/ct-coronavirus-chicago-house-party-20200429-tce6d54dznaplp7dcfzvjsvdsa-story.html), wrote an open letter to the black kids who partied, citing the reality of killing loved ones “without even knowing that you are carrying a weapon.”) Chicago police have subsequently said they cited the homeowner with disorderly conduct Monday.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-life-covid-19-disconnect-black-community-20200429-20200430-rrze5rymzbeobb5z745tdpproe-story.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on May 03, 2020, 03:47:03 PM
Sen. Kamala Harris Is Introducing A Bill To Address The Racial Disparity In Coronavirus Cases

We should look into disparity in breast size among all women and introduce legislation to outlaw it.

Perhaps puberty should be legislated to occur at the same age for all persons.

Height would be another item to look at.

Actually potential for a very long list of items to investigate.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 03, 2020, 03:58:25 PM
Sen. Kamala Harris Is Introducing A Bill To Address The Racial Disparity In Coronavirus Cases


I'm a minority and I've been subject to extreme racism by the virus. Let's vote for Kamal Harris's bill because it'll take some of your money and give it to deserving people like me.

In other news China hid coronavirus' severity to hoard supplies. "While downplaying the severity of the coronavirus, China increased imports and decreased exports of medical supplies. It attempted to cover up doing so by “denying there were export restrictions and obfuscating and delaying provision of its trade data,”

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/report-china-hid-coronavirus-severity-to-hoard-supplies/ar-BB13yha5?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 04, 2020, 01:32:53 AM
I've been wondering how Uni's are likely to get back to it when they resume in September. Given that their usual mode of operation entail lots of students close together in large lecture theatres, classrooms, corridors and in halls of residence I couldn't see that being possible. This news report from the BBC sheds light on what they are looking at:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52506283

So basically they are going to want to charge the same money for students having to plonk their rear behind their computer screen and listen to them bore on over video link, assuming it is live at all. No chance of scoring or even perving over the class hottie near them, etc. just bum numbing hours in isolation in their room listening to lecturer boring on.

Now while this will save money on cost of halls it will of course mean that many students will be stuck with their parents and vice versa. Some won't mind this too much but others will not fancy it after seeing it as an opportunity to live a bit independently. Another issue though is that student halls and private student accommodation will be lacking in student residents if students are no longer living away from home. Some of these residencies may be able to rent out to the general public, but some may not be suited to that nor have the license for it and may go bust. Usual Uni student areas where landlords rent to students may see a lot less demand for accommodation and have to offer lower rents as a result.

I personally can't see a lot of students being happy with such a situation. Some on more technical & scientific courses may be willing to undertake the bum numbing hours but those on the more light and airy courses such as Marketing are unlikely to fancy it. I know myself that online learning can quickly become a drag and very tedious to do, I wouldn't fancy it, especially if unis had the cheek to want full tuition fees.

I personally can see degree apprenticeships, apprenticeships and just getting a job and working your way up as becoming more likely route for young people to get on these days. With the high cost of uni tuition, hours of boredom and no guarantee of a job at the end of it along with no form of independence I can't see that as being attractive to many young people.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 04, 2020, 02:53:34 AM
Here the likely plan seems to be for half of the students in class one week, the other half the next to reduce classroom size and increase personal distance measures.  On the off week, those students at home would continue with virtual instruction.

Masks will likely be mandatory along with regular disinfection of classrooms etc.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 04, 2020, 02:55:47 AM
BTW just had my first bar made cappuccino today. Take away but still quite nice.

Great for the guys and gals at bars to get back to work.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 04, 2020, 05:21:58 AM
Trench,

         My son attends University of Surrey and the campus accommodation is now being used by NHS staff,whilst part of it is being used as a temporary Morgue.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 04, 2020, 06:49:02 AM

My wife's college classes resumed online. My governor said he's going to keep all schools closed the rest of the year so I assume they will all be online. My guess is he's waiting for a vaccine to show up before allowing kids back in school. The city of Seattle gave ALL the students an A for the rest of the school year. It'll disguise their poor performance teaching kids.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on May 04, 2020, 07:23:36 AM
Local university grew from 20,000 students to 30,000 students back in late 1990s.  Hundreds of new apartment buildings went up.  I suspected the university president at the time, who oversaw this growth, got big payoffs from building contractors.

I have frequently told wife, as we are driving and can't believe the number of new buildings, that there would be many bankruptcies if and when the student population declined back to 'natural' levels.

But, of course, never dreamed it would come from something like Corona keeping students away from campus for extended period of time, and maybe permanently for the future.

Over the years, I have been tempted myself to purchase a small apartment building for rental income.  Glad I didn't do it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 04, 2020, 08:26:58 AM
BTW just had my first bar made cappuccino today. Take away but still quite nice.

Great for the guys and gals at bars to get back to work.

cappuccino - the breakfast drink of Italians. 

Where id you enjoy your cappuccino?   By "take away," I presume you could not sit indoors.  Does the coffee shop have outdoor seating nearby?   Can you not stand and sip?   

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 04, 2020, 08:55:03 AM
cappuccino - the breakfast drink of Italians. 

Where id you enjoy your cappuccino?   By "take away," I presume you could not sit indoors.  Does the coffee shop have outdoor seating nearby?   Can you not stand and sip?

No, can't stand up and sip - yet.  Wife picked it up on the way back from the weekly shopping trip in disposable cups and packaging, so enjoyed in the office.  Outdoor seating for bars and restaurants will come later, maybe at the end of the month but not quite yet.  Don't want folks gathering around quite yet.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 04, 2020, 10:19:45 AM
Trench,

         My son attends University of Surrey and the campus accommodation is now being used by NHS staff,whilst part of it is being used as a temporary Morgue.

Wow, that's a pretty depressing & sobering scene CB. Not sure it is somewhere I would want to live after that, lol.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 04, 2020, 10:21:56 AM
Here the likely plan seems to be for half of the students in class one week, the other half the next to reduce classroom size and increase personal distance measures.  On the off week, those students at home would continue with virtual instruction.

Masks will likely be mandatory along with regular disinfection of classrooms etc.

Think that sounds like it is the best way forward BC and will likely have similar done here. Otherwise I can't see students being happy paying thousands in student loan tuition money to sit behind a screen at home for hours on end.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 04, 2020, 10:28:16 AM
Trench,

Are tuition/student loans a 'thing' in UK?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on May 04, 2020, 10:57:09 AM
Half the students attending on alternate days typically would mean one empty seat between them.
Doesn't meet distancing criteria.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 04, 2020, 10:59:57 AM
Trench,

Are tuition/student loans a 'thing' in UK?

Kind off, most have them. You take out a student loan through the Government's 'Student Loan Company' to pay for tuition fees of around £9k per year. Repayments are taken when you reach a certain income threshold. Otherwise after a certain amount of time, something like 25 years or so and/or when you get to 60/65 anything left on the loan gets wiped. It's doesn't get taken into account as debt when you go for mortgages or other loans either.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 04, 2020, 11:00:55 AM
both my daughters will drop out of Rice univ at the end of this semester...
online at Rice is a joke with no punchline that costs me over $100,000+ per year

here is the latest CDC projection, whoever created this was probably just fired, so it might be a while before you get an update
media is just doin it's job, but anything bad for Trump is fake, right?
the virus handling is his "success"

based on these new numbers
when we hit exponential growth again this fall/winter from this high of a base level
then the numbers by next year will be beyond catastrophic, truly historic
wake up to reality
we're talking a million dead now by next year...
and complete economic and social collapse
based on official CDC numbers




Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 04, 2020, 02:12:17 PM
This week marks the first week Calif. Governor will reopen select retail businesses here. It will be measured and left to each county's discretion as long as it meets with each county's hospital beds, testing and tracking requirements.

Beginning today, California will conduct an online academy to recruit and train 3,000 tracers/week. The goal is to first launch up to 10,000 as businesses begin to open. The ultimate goal is to have enough tracers to meet the demand as phasing and staging progress statewide. California currently have 23 counties that are actively tracing COVID.

All beaches are open with strict spacing guidelines being adhered to.

Schools at all level is scheduled to open August 2020.

The exception, 3 counties are allowed to open school, churches and businesses by Friday if people can stay 6' of spacing apart.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on May 04, 2020, 02:40:15 PM
This week marks the first week Calif. Governor will reopen select retail businesses here. It will be measured and left to each county's discretion as long as it meets with each county's hospital beds, testing and tracking requirements.

 

All beaches are open with strict spacing guidelines being adhered to.

 

I thought beaches in LA county were still closed on weekends?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 04, 2020, 03:44:46 PM
I thought beaches in LA county were still closed on weekends?

LA County have very limited capacity with a wide range of restriction (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/california-governor-reopen-beaches-coronavirus-us). Parking lots are closed, and no static visiting, must maintain spacing, etc..meaning walking, jogging, surfing, biking or other motioned recreation is allowed. The temporary closure of OC beaches are also re-opening. (http://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-04/coronavirus-beaches-reopening-orange-county-laguna-san-clemente-gavin-newsom)

I was at the Marina this week watching the bioluminescence show twice with a bunch of people on the shoreline. Also surfed porto and biked from Marina to southbay both days with wifey.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on May 04, 2020, 04:55:50 PM
Yes the bio luminescence is quite something to see.  I loved watching the porpoises light up the water when I was going out albacore fishing in the middle of the night.

Saw today an awesome news clip of a surfer and the breaking wave he was riding.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on May 04, 2020, 05:53:11 PM
both my daughters will drop out of Rice univ at the end of this semester...


Are they enrolling elsewhere?


I believe universities in Canada will be back to classes in September.  They're starting with limited openings now. 


Has Rice announced there will be no classes?


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 04, 2020, 06:57:19 PM
no, both my daughters are permanently leaving the USA this September
and will permanently live inside Mozhaysky on some ulitsa i’d rather not say here...
I’m going with them for the ordeal of the klinika vaktsinatsii
which means a months confinement for the 3 of us, my wife is staying in the USA
she is not recommended to take this vaccine, so she gets to hang out in the bunker with a “friend"
my stay in Russia will be temporary, and I’ll be home for Christmas...
if only in my dreams

I know the curtain is falling again in Russia
but I have SOLID connections now through BLOOD
all I have to do is find various ways to make myself useful to them

my kids and I are getting at LEAST one of the new Russian Trial vaccines, a risky one based on a naturally found weakened version of the virus, that reproduces slowly....
this plus Russian antii-virals
AND get this...
as long as your respiration isn't low, you can get get 2 mg hits of morphine every 4 hours
I like to get DOUBLE that 4 mg, right before I nod off,
that's why I have stacks of hundreds
delivered to me whenever I want
to pay off EVERYONE
to make my life a freakin paradise for me and my two baby girls
while I'm voluntarily injecting myself and my children with Corona Virus
OMG
am I crazy?

and when I come out of quarantine with my children
we may also be given a Russian produced version of the Oxford Vaccine...
the timing will be close...
but certainly by late Fall

all this spetsial'naya klinika comes with a VERY steep cost!!
it takes 4 weekstotal time  for us to be quarantined at the klinika...
my daughters and I have a penthouse on the top floor where we’re staying
with full medical and room service, I freakin love Russia
then ONLY after we pass all the virus tests, then we’re out!!!
and the Russian government itself certifies us with no detectable level of virus in our blood
but testing positive for anti-bodies that I can even donate to local clinics
which I will do for the publicity, Russians will eat it up on TV!!
middle aged women will approach me on the street and stare at my crotch again
like when I was younger

It also means that while everyone in Russia will be terrified of the virus this winter
I can walk with immunity anywhere in the worst of the worst
and actually fear no evil
meanwhile the ruined world lays at my feet
on both sides of the ocean
a surreal nightmare
I even bet no one is even gonna want to buy Krimskaya Coffee a year from now, unless they can cook and eat the beans...
sad...
that whole plantation will be ruined now
and the monkeys will move back in
and start tearing up the buildings again

the virus has messed up my life completely
not to mention my Children
one getting married this year in Russia and is moving there
and youngest decided to go with her her older sister and is working as an English/Russian translator for a Russian bank in Mozhaysky
which the family is connected with
but borgoi moy it is freakin COLD there

this group of people took my advice about bitcoin and in the last two months have doubled their money...
I told them to sell at $9600
then after it crosses $10,000 the price will temporarily collapse
when it does, buy everything back you just sold
take the difference in pound sterling
have HSBC buy 10 oz gold bars or 1 oz rounds and hold them in your vault

I can do all this online
sitting in my bunker folks

but then later, I have to make a trip to Douglass in The Irish Sea
and takes me gold out....

aye mateys' and t'will be a rough sailin trip home me lads
a rough one indeed

I have my daughter’s wedding to attend
I brought two suits
one is a white Panama suit, that I wear with a purple shirt and black tie and aviator glasses
I look dashing!

when I’m out, I have a virus passport for Russia and can do WTF I want in Russia!!
and I’m probably going to be immune to the Russian version of Corona for the next 3 yrs or so
the shots will be cheaper next time!

so much stuff is happening in Russia right now
like 10 years of change is going to happen in the next 6 months...
but the DEALS are MIND BOGGLING

after I make sure my kids are gonna be OK in Russia
I’ll come back home to my bunker in the USA
to protect my wife from
the night riders that roam our streets each night here in Texas...
Folks, I am not joking, strange cars are cruisin all through communities that aren't gated
even some like mine that are!!!
tile roof and lexan windows plus brick house, means I'm immune to molotov cocktails at night on roof or through a window

no, I'm not joking, this is TOTALLY what Texas is gonna be like 18 months from now
something out of your worst nightmares folks

your first warning will be shootings at long lines of cars at food lines which have huge numbers of cops
with virus deniers getting cut-off in line by a meth-head and it "gets ugly" REAL FAST, if you know what I mean...
maybe then the reality begins to sink in....

that we are gonna enter a NEW period of history folks
we've only just begun to live
twilight and promises
das va danya to the old world
I figure you have maybe two years tops for here in the USA, other places may do better
but if the CDC numbers turn out to be true a month from now

then this town
this town's a Ghost Town
a Ghost Town

the CDC numbers that were leaked today, basically mean it’s going to be the end of the world as we know it

Russia is already dividing the country into a 1000 green zones
this time next year, if you’re not living in a green zone in Russia
then you are majorly fooked
when your local food distribution system starts collapsing
and Moscow only distributes to green zones and oligarchs with their own “connections”

the collapse plus apocalypse should be called the "Collapse-alypse"
a year from now, it'll be on America's doorstep
IF, I say IF the CDC numbers are correct....

the CDC number should be a source of major controversy right now
I don't understand why it isn't
but, if it turns out to be accurate
then people we are in "deep doo-ddo"
cuz, like I said....
with this high of a plateau
when the conditions become more optimal for the virus in the fall/winter/spring
we will once again get a new EXPONENTIAL growth phase
that shoots to an absolutely horrendous peak of millions of new infections per day!!

that may mean 10,000 people dying per day or more
it means mass graves
for sure

aren't you guys understanding this yet...

I think there is a great deal of controversy about the CDC numbers,
BUT...
if they turn out to be right, then going back to work and reducing social distancing will be CLEARLY shown
based on rising Corona numbers to be the WRONG thing, do you remember that word? WRONG?

I'm thinking there should be a Corona Commission if the CDC's forecast turns out to be true, while ALL off Trump's have downplayed the virus
I guess we'll see who's right a month from now

but if the CDC is right, then the world as we know it is doomed
I'm serious!!!







Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on May 04, 2020, 11:14:35 PM
So they are giving up on education completely? 


What if the marriage goes sour?  What if your "blood" connections lose favour?


The chance of either of your daughters dying from COVID-19 is remote. 


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 05, 2020, 02:11:05 AM
So they are giving up on education completely? 


What if the marriage goes sour?  What if your "blood" connections lose favour?


The chance of either of your daughters dying from COVID-19 is remote. 


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Women that are of marriageable quality don't need education Boe. If they are acceptable for marriage then even if one falls through they will be acceptable for many a man. It's the woman's ability to bear children is where their worth lies.

Only the ugliest of girls need bother with education or those that are naturally talented.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 05, 2020, 02:25:19 AM
Will somebody please shoot Trench and put him out of his misery?

I don't have a gun but may rethink my position if he keeps up his trolling.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 05, 2020, 03:36:38 AM
Interesting interview with Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis of Greece.  See if you can spot the elephant.

http://youtu.be/B9_D18F7aBk
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on May 05, 2020, 04:04:09 AM
Women that are of marriageable quality don't need education Boe. If they are acceptable for marriage then even if one falls through they will be acceptable for many a man. It's the woman's ability to bear children is where their worth lies.

Only the ugliest of girls need bother with education or those that are naturally talented.


Sure.  Until she has a baby and then figures out the 40 year old schmuck she married, who can't generate an income in excess of £27,000, can't afford to buy her more than the very basics.  So, uneducated, she is forced to work as an Asda cashier in order to purchase school uniforms, runners (I believe you call them "trainers"), and be able to get a good haircut and occasional manicure for herself.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 05, 2020, 04:24:41 AM
Will somebody please shoot Trench and put him out of his misery?

I don't have a gun but may rethink my position if he keeps up his trolling.

It's not trolling BC, a lot of people will go with what society tells them is the conventional route at any given point in time. Recent decades that has been education, before that it was a suitable marriage prospect. Few people actually think for themselves and upon realising the logic no longer fear breaking free from the crowd. What if Bill Gates said screw this opportunity that had come up with IBM I would rather finish my uni education. There would be no Microsoft, no rich Bill Gates just a douche Bill Gates holding a diploma with far less going for him.

So now we have Krim, one of his daughters we are told is going to marry a rich guy out in Moscow. So what is she to do??? If she says the 'I want to finish my degree first' like a lot of the rubbish women have been brought up told to say he will likely feel she is not serious about him, may not ever go to Moscow to live with him/marry him and that she is wasting his time so he should move on. After all if she finished her degree she might then say, 'Ive been offered this amazing opportunity in so & so in the US and it is too good an opportunity to turn down I will have to do that first then we can ...blah, blah, blah'.

Degrees these days are two a penny BC, after you have finished your degree there is another year following on from you full of students on virtually every given career path. The market is swamped with loads of students being churned out every year. You're one of many, many people holding a degree in a given subject these days.

Now Krim's daughter on the other hand has an opportunity here in marrying well as they used to call it. Maybe she is indeed very much in love with this rich Moscow guy. In any case she will be marrying into a comfortable lifestyle, she won't need to go out to work with a degree to afford that lifestyle and put up with the ordeals of whatever the workplace throws at her. She could even have more scope to do what she pleases by marrying into a rich family.

Most attractive women are around their prime in their late teens to early twenties. Many attractive women can still be very attractive in their mid to late twenties and lose nothing of their appeal. However some do already start to go downhill in the looks department and in any case most of the most promising partners are married off by around their early twenties or promised to be.

Hence while Krim's move here may seem rash to some it is likely to have a lot more go in it than his daughters being sat behind a computer screen all day finishing off their uni courses while they lose out on the most promising years of their life. Remember learning can be done later at any age.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on May 05, 2020, 04:33:12 AM
So your one example is the world's richest man, who had been making software deals since high school, and actually did attend an Ivy League university for two years. 


Ignoring the outliers, look at average salaries, and you will note that those with educations have, on average, higher salaries than those with no education. 


Being solely reliant on a man, who may decide after a few kids that he needs a younger, tighter, model, is the worst thing a woman can do.  Tying herself to a loser who can't support her is equally as bad.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 05, 2020, 04:33:51 AM

Sure.  Until she has a baby and then figures out the 40 year old schmuck she married, who can't generate an income in excess of £27,000, can't afford to buy her more than the very basics.  So, uneducated, she is forced to work as an Asda cashier in order to purchase school uniforms, runners (I believe you call them "trainers"), and be able to get a good haircut and occasional manicure for herself.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

The prettier the girl generally the more richer guy she can get. It's not all of course about money or as simple as that, not always but it's a general rule of thumb. In general the less women they are competing with men out in the workplace the more higher salary a man can command and the more likely me are to get into the jobs they need that the women want them to have. In depriving a man of that job they are also depriving themselves of the man they want ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on May 05, 2020, 04:43:11 AM
Your lack of understanding of the most basic of human relations is on display yet again. 





This post was composed without the aid of google.









Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 05, 2020, 04:50:43 AM
So your one example is the world's richest man, who had been making software deals since high school, and actually did attend an Ivy League university for two years. 


Ignoring the outliers, look at average salaries, and you will note that those with educations have, on average, higher salaries than those with no education. 


Being solely reliant on a man, who may decide after a few kids that he needs a younger, tighter, model, is the worst thing a woman can do.  Tying herself to a loser who can't support her is equally as bad.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Many cases are abound of people that didn't finish Uni and did well, not because they couldn't finish the course or were impulsive with no good reason but because they realised that they would get much more, much better by acting on something else there and then that couldn't/wouldn't wait for them to finish their degree. Brad Pitt was close to finishing his degree but chucked it in to go to LA to do acting. He didn't have any offer when he did that but he no doubt envisaged that if he finished his degree he would then feel compelled to use that degree by going for a stayed job at a decent but regular salary that he would then feel compelled to stay in as he "progressed". So to avoid that stable yet unexciting vision he went to Hollywood to try his hand. He probably figured he could finish degree off later and no doubt the chicks on campus digged him so he probably had some good reason to believe it could turn out good for him.

Your figures for salaries are outdated Boe, they are from the previous generations of the 60s, 70s, 80s. The market is swamped with graduates these days and the salaries they can command as a result are low because if it.

All this feminist being solely reliant on a man is a load of clap trap. The Male-Female symbiotic relationship doesn't work if one side says 'hey I don't trust you so I am going to do what you offer so then I am in a strong position' whether that be the women going after a career or the man learning to do all the housework. The very symbiotic relationship works because each side can offer sonething the other side needs. It needs that not feeling you can do it all to help hold the relationship together and make it work well, for most anyway though if course not always all.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 05, 2020, 05:03:19 AM
What are the divorce laws in Russia ?

If a women gets dumped by her Oligarch husband because he's found a younger,tighter,model can't she just take half his money/assets as women do in the UK/USA ?

If so ,Krims daughter marrying a wealthy Russian bloke could prove to be a better investment than getting her degree.

If the marriage works she'd have a nice life and if it doesn't she'd still have a nice life post-marriage.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on May 05, 2020, 05:09:51 AM
US, 2017

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-more-college-graduates-earn-than-non-graduates-in-every-state-2019-5 (http://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-more-college-graduates-earn-than-non-graduates-in-every-state-2019-5)

US, 2017, 2018, 2019

http://study.com/articles/How_Much_More_Do_College_Graduates_Earn_Than_Non-College_Graduates.html (http://study.com/articles/How_Much_More_Do_College_Graduates_Earn_Than_Non-College_Graduates.html)

Canada, 2017

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/98-200-x/2016024/98-200-x2016024-eng.cfm (http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/98-200-x/2016024/98-200-x2016024-eng.cfm)

UK, 2018

http://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/26/uk-data-on-england-graduates-and-salary-expectations.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/26/uk-data-on-england-graduates-and-salary-expectations.html)


OECD -

http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=EAG_EARNINGS (http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=EAG_EARNINGS)

As for "feminism", it's not feminism.  It's called "self preservation".  Women have always worked.  Modern societies just mean the method of work is different.  Women are not "taking jobs" from men.  Men with skills will always be welcome in the workforce.  If a woman is "displacing" a man, it's because she is doing the job better than he can.

You can come back and lecture me me about male-female relationships when you've had a successful relationship for 25 years or more.

Google was used for the above links.


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 05, 2020, 05:10:19 AM
Krim posts should be enjoyed with a dash of salt.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 05, 2020, 05:47:51 AM
Your lack of understanding of the most basic of human relations is on display yet again. 





This post was composed without the aid of google.

Mark Zuckerberg is another. Yet what lady would be interested in either Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates if they had not 'made it'. Both are geeks, and geeks are usually a turn off for girls, yet rich geeks not so. In the film the 'Social Network' we see the (lack off) ability of Mark Zuckerberg to get on with women and the poor way he can treat people and how badly that comes over, yet he got rich and then had no problems finding a woman, lol.

In truth yes compared to the vast bulk of general society they are 'outliers' as you call them. Most people won't do or see what they could be much better if in or have the ability to or find themselves in a place to do so. Yet it remains the case that many people out there could be better off skipping uni and most of them are women since they can marry into what they seek or better, including or excluding how they feel about the guy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 05, 2020, 06:11:13 AM
http://metro.co.uk/2020/05/05/nearly-6000-deaths-care-homes-new-figures-reveal-12655146/ (http://metro.co.uk/2020/05/05/nearly-6000-deaths-care-homes-new-figures-reveal-12655146/)

For any UK citizen still suggesting 'herd immunity' ..is 'the way to go..


The UK now has more deaths due to this virus than Italy...

'We' have it spread across the nation, unlike Italy in concentrated hot spots.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on May 05, 2020, 06:12:25 AM

Mark Zuckerberg is another. Yet what lady would be interested in either Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates if they had not 'made it'. Both are geeks, and geeks are usually a turn off for girls, yet rich geeks not so. In the film the 'Social Network' we see the (lack off) ability of Mark Zuckerberg to get on with women and the poor way he can treat people and how badly that comes over, yet he got rich and then had no problems finding a woman, lol.

In truth yes compared to the vast bulk of general society they are 'outliers' as you call them. Most people won't do or see what they could be much better if in or have the ability to or find themselves in a place to do so. Yet it remains the case that many people out there could be better off skipping uni and most of them are women since they can marry into what they seek or better, including or excluding how they feel about the guy.

None of which negates my statement. 

Nevertheless, for the record, Bill Gates starting dating his wife Melinda before Microsoft went public.  They got engaged a year after Microsoft's IPO, when its stock had crashed.  It took over 2 years for that price to recover.

Mark Zuckerberg met, and became coupled with his wife at a frat party a year before Facebook was even founded.

Based on the above, another fail for you.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on May 05, 2020, 06:18:02 AM
I saw more effects yesterday of the corona virus.   I hadn't been about town for a spell but yesterday I had to do a few household errands.  I noticed supermarkets are low on products again, more people than ever are all 'gloved up'.   Had to wait in a line to get inside the food store..a lady in front of me politely asked me to step back to 6 feet, I think I was about 4 feet from her.    Plexiglas up everywhere now...Home Depot, Smart and Final, finally the front line employees can feel more protected.    I'm starting to wonder if this is going to be the way things are going to be going forward.   I hear when Vegas opens, they are going to allow 2 players per table and have plexiglas between players and dealer.    I can see doing all of this for the time being, although if this becomes the new way of life permanently it would be quite a change.  My own feeling is that the virus is not really stoppable and at some point it will need to be confronted by practically every individual.  On the other hand perhaps it is stoppable if society is willing to continue to live in this new weird way. 

Fathertime!   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 05, 2020, 06:25:41 AM
None of which negates my statement. 

Nevertheless, for the record, Bill Gates starting dating his wife Melinda before Microsoft went public.  They got engaged a year after Microsoft's IPO, when its stock had crashed.  It took over 2 years for that price to recover.

Mark Zuckerberg met, and became coupled with his wife at a frat party a year before Facebook was even founded.

Based on the above, another fail for you.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

Ok, let's try and enlighten you another way. Arnold Schwarzenegger says he doesn't like Plan B, he just doesn't do it or have one. For him there is only Plan A, because that way you are not wasting energy and resources on Plan B and are more committed to Plan A as there is no Plan B. I see this as a good way forward, you are suggesting Boe that Krim's daughter potentially sacrifice the Moscow relationship/marriage in favour of getting a back up Plan B sorted first and then hope the Plan A is still there at the end of it or another suitable alternative, that to my mind is just plain crazy!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on May 05, 2020, 07:46:33 AM
Plan A is the education and self sufficiency.

Plan B is maybe pursuing her passion, like painting or medieval french poetry.

Plan C is probably travelling and having fun.

...

Plan ZZZZZZZ is marrying some russian mobster boris and forced to live in hideout near Moscow to please your father.


Trench...you are crazy.  Batsh*te insane.  I give you credit for being a mammal, and that's about it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 05, 2020, 09:18:05 AM
a lady in front of me politely asked me to step back to 6 feet, I think I was about 4 feet from her. 


In today's world, getting within 4 feet of a woman can be considered sexual assault! Keep your distance big boy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 05, 2020, 09:20:49 AM
In today's world, getting within 4 feet of a woman can be considered sexual assault! Keep your distance big boy.

Only if you're a Republican. fathertime is a (CCP) Chinese in a Democrat suit...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 05, 2020, 10:41:35 AM

AOC's district is the worst hit district in America. Residents of the neighborhoods of Corona and North Corona in her district have had more coronavirus cases than any ZIP code in the country. The solution here is for those neighborhoods to change their names.

http://news.yahoo.com/aoc-existential-crises-her-district-184508593.html?.tsrc=bell-brknews
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on May 05, 2020, 12:57:44 PM
Plan A is the education and self sufficiency.

Plan B is maybe pursuing her passion, like painting or medieval french poetry.

Plan C is probably travelling and having fun.

...

Plan ZZZZZZZ is marrying some russian mobster boris and forced to live in hideout near Moscow to please your father.


Trench...you are crazy.  Batsh*te insane.  I give you credit for being a mammal, and that's about it.

👏👏👏👏

I was going to respond, but this response is perfect.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 05, 2020, 01:17:10 PM
my daughters have put their univ education on "pause"...
they both know they don't NEED an education the way most people do...
they can afford to wait
they found stuff to do in Russia, and I've left them each a trust fund
and men who I trust to look after them
there isn't going to be a normal world in the future
normal rules won't apply to an abnormal word
even they get it...

my future is less certain
on one hand I'm being offered AMAZING deals in Russia, I mean mind boggling amazing
but OTOH, I don't want to live there
my kids handle it much better than me, they're both happier there than in the USA
once I make sure they're setup, then I head back to my bunker in the USA
and continue preparing myself
for next year's onslaught after the collapse-alypse





Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 05, 2020, 03:02:38 PM
my daughters have put their univ education on "pause"...
they both know they don't NEED an education the way most people do...
they can afford to wait
they found stuff to do in Russia, and I've left them each a trust fund
and men who I trust to look after them
there isn't going to be a normal world in the future
normal rules won't apply to an abnormal word
even they get it...

my future is less certain
on one hand I'm being offered AMAZING deals in Russia, I mean mind boggling amazing
but OTOH, I don't want to live there
my kids handle it much better than me, they're both happier there than in the USA
once I make sure they're setup, then I head back to my bunker in the USA
and continue preparing myself
for next year's onslaught after the collapse-alypse

Exactly!

If things hit the sh*t over here I'll bunker down with Moby, he's just down the road from me and I know he would be overjoyed to see me. Fresh milk each morning straight from the Moobs! :D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on May 05, 2020, 05:18:31 PM
New York----It is safer to sleep on the street than in a nursing home....
Coronavirus News: More than 1,700 previously undisclosed deaths at NY nursing homes
Quote
ALBANY,  New York (WABC) -- New York state is reporting more than 1,700 previously undisclosed deaths at nursing homes and adult care facilities as the state faces scrutiny over how it has protected vulnerable residents during the coronavirus pandemic.

At least 4,813 people have died from COVID-19 in the state's nursing homes since March 1, according to a tally released by Gov. Andrew Cuomo's administration late Monday that, for the first time, includes people believed to have been killed by the coronavirus before their diagnoses could be confirmed by a lab test.

Exactly how many nursing home residents have died remains uncertain despite the state's latest disclosure, as the list doesn't nursing home residents who were transferred to hospitals before dying.

The revised list shows that 22 nursing homes, largely in New York City and Long Island, have reported at least 40 deaths.
http://abc7ny.com/health/more-previously-undisclosed-deaths-now-reported-at-ny-nursing-homes/6153135/
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 05, 2020, 06:31:01 PM
On Monday morning, the White House economic adviser Kevin Hassett warned the second quarter could reflect a 20 to 30 percent decline - something that has not been seen since the 1930s Great Depression.

so this week, the white house announced up to a 30% drop in GDP is expected by the end of next month!!!
and this is the optimistic version!!!!

are you guys getting a handle now on understanding it?

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 05, 2020, 07:22:06 PM

Russian doctors who complain about the lack of PPE and support in the fight against the virus have acquired the same habit as Russian journalists falling out of windows. The third Russian doctor to fall out of a window within two weeks is in critical condition with a skull fracture. The other two died.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/05/04/third-russian-doctor-falls-from-hospital-window-after-coronavirus-complaint-a70176
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on May 05, 2020, 07:30:15 PM
Interesting how many people tied to Russians "FALL out of windows".
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on May 05, 2020, 08:51:40 PM

are you guys getting a handle now on understanding it?

No but our drugs aren't as good as yours brah
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 05, 2020, 11:11:07 PM
yeah brat,
I just flipped 20,000 units of edibles like this, net weight 480 lbs
that just came in on my solid gold air logistics from Houston/Tel Aviv
to one of the smaller airports in Moscva

I got a clear profit, even after all payoffs of 12.2+ bitcoins
more than $100,000...
and I never even had to set foot in Russia!

here’s a pic...
20,000 units every shipment...
and they’re gone in under a day in Moscva
buyers screamin for more...
and that’s just Moscva...
Gozpedy, imagine the rest of Russia, places like Rostov, etc

a year from now, will be selling my own brands of this and other edibles
all Over Russia
and the beauty of the logistics
is about how I can bring stuff out as well
making 10s of millions of USD per year
off this
both ways

using this business to raise some serious money in Russia
and it’s keeping a door open when all the others are gonna close...
my friends, it’s nice to have your own newly chartered cargo jet!!
that can bring emergency PPE supplies to Russia
and donate to Moscva hospitals while doing it in Putin’s name
because he’s asking EVERYONE to help Russia...

RT, even has a script for me when I am donating plasma
I’m supposed to lay sit a chair with my tie undone
and after they finish, they hand me a cookie...
I’m supposed to look at it skeptically, but then take a bite out of it
then change my skeptical expression to a big smile and say “Kuzna”!
for the closeup, and then everyone laughs...

what do you think, funny right?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 05, 2020, 11:58:57 PM
👏👏👏👏

I was going to respond, but this response is perfect.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

I can only see Trenchcoat's  'expertise' when quoted, these days, but Steve's put down was well worth seeing  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 06, 2020, 12:30:13 AM
I can only see Trenchcoat's  'expertise' when quoted, these days,


You better pay attention or you're going to get surprised. I think Trench has taken a liking to you. ;D

If things hit the sh*t over here I'll bunker down with Moby, he's just down the road from me and I know he would be overjoyed to see me. Fresh milk each morning straight from the Moobs! :D


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 06, 2020, 12:42:04 AM
You better pay attention or you're going to get surprised. I think Trench has taken a liking to you. ;D

I realise he cannot stayathome and feels the need to potentially be a super spreader in the viral form..  ((
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on May 06, 2020, 03:51:11 AM
...and this is the optimistic version!!!!
 
  are you guys getting a handle now on understanding it?
Yes teacher.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 06, 2020, 12:45:42 PM
On Monday morning, the White House economic adviser Kevin Hassett warned the second quarter could reflect a 20 to 30 percent decline - something that has not been seen since the 1930s Great Depression.

so this week, the white house announced up to a 30% drop in GDP is expected by the end of next month!!!
and this is the optimistic version!!!!

are you guys getting a handle now on understanding it?

Yes, I understand the obvious.  It's the economy, stupid. 

The peak unemployment during the Great Depression was 24.9% (1933).    Sadly, we could reach that figure in a couple more months of staying in lockdown.     
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on May 06, 2020, 09:40:24 PM
Just prior to the lockdown I was in the process of scheduling cataract surgery 3 months out which was the earliest I could get with this particular surgeon.  When the lockdown occurred I figured it would be the end of summer before I could get scheduled.

Got a surprise call from the surgery center yesterday and they explained that they had cancelled all surgeries and for some reason the surgeon told them to put me at the top of the list for their 'soft opening'.  So, tomorrow I have the pre-op meeting with the surgeon and the surgery scheduled for next Tuesday.

Since I don't know much about cataract surgery I was wondering if anyone on the forum has had the same procedure within the past few years and what questions I should be asking the doctor in our meeting.

I did a little quick research on Google and the only question I have come up with is whether to go for the mono focus lenses or the optional more expensive adaptable focus lenses.  I have read both good and bad about the adaptive focus lenses but have found nothing derogatory about the standard fixed focal lenses. 

A friend in Santa Barbara had the procedure on both eyes and selected the optional lenses which he said were an additional $1500 or $3000 per lens  and not covered by insurance.  When asked what he would do if he would do it again, he responded that it is a tossup.  He is not sure he would get the adaptable focus lenses.  There are some artifacts with the optional lenses and the "auto focus" is not always 100% in focus without playing around with focusing on different objects.

He further stated that one of his close friends had the surgery at about the same time with the standard lenses and claims to have perfect vision from infinity to about arms length and wears glasses for reading and computer work.

My normal inclination is to not be on the "bleeding edge" of technology.  I don't buy the latest hardware or software of almost anything. My nature is to wait until a product is stable before buying it.  From the research it appears to me that the  adaptive lenses are not exactly new but have been out only a few years and the studies have admitted that some issues are present for some patients using them.

What experience do our members have on the topic?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 07, 2020, 12:07:11 AM
Since I don't know much about cataract surgery I was wondering if anyone on the forum has had the same procedure within the past few years and what questions I should be asking the doctor in our meeting.


I know a guy who had cataract surgery and he said he can see a whole new world he hasn't seen in a long long time. I've had lasik. The question you should ask before the surgery is how much experience the doctor has. If he/she just got out of college, look for a doctor that has much more experience. My lasik doctor had done 100,000 eyes and was the owner of clinics on the West Coast and in Canada.

Here's some info on procedure, effects, risks and lenses

http://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/cataract-surgery/about/pac-20384765

In other news coronavirus survivors are permanently banned from joining the military. Are they thinking the virus could sleep and reactivate later on?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/coronavirus-survivors-permanently-disqualified-from-joining-us-military/ar-BB13I8in?ocid=spartanntp

There are knuckleheads out there still throwing coronavirus parties where a bunch of non infected idiots intentionally get together with infected idiots.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/coronavirus-parties-in-this-county-linked-to-rise-in-cases-officials-say/ar-BB13GUKU?ocid=spartanntp

The statement stressed that scientists don't know yet if people infected with the coronavirus become immune and that contracting the virus risks serious illness.

"Health officials stress that there is much we don't know about COVID-19," the release said. "Epidemiologists don't know if immunity is a sure thing, if reinfection is possible, or if [the] virus could continue living inside you. They do know that even the young can be hospitalized, survivors may suffer long-term damage, and even a 'mild' case isn't mild."
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 07, 2020, 05:05:22 AM

What experience do our members have on the topic?

I have discussed it with my ophthalmologist, and he says my impairment does not yet qualify for Medicare reimbursement. Knowing that it eventually will be needed, I have talked with a few of my peers who had the surgery and paid for enhanced lens.  No consensus - some had less than ideal results, others are very happy.  A tossup as you said.   

Decide what is best for you, distance or closeup. 
   



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on May 07, 2020, 07:03:16 AM
Doug,


Best of luck with your surgery. A friend of mine had this surgery last year and she went with the "normal" lens. Has to use glasses for reading like you mentioned. Hope it all turns out well and pray you are not using Bee Keeper as our doctor.  :clapping:


Take care,
Lee
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 07, 2020, 07:39:10 AM

Kids with new medical issues are coming back to hospitals after their battle with COVID-19. There's going to be continued medical costs to individuals and nations even if we get rid of the virus someday

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/more-kids-hospitalized-with-possible-covid-19-complication/ar-BB13HWq5?ocid=spartanntp

Cases in Brazil, Russia, and Singapore continue to skyrocket. Warmer weather isn't stopping the virus.

In less than two months, 1 out of every 756 people in NY State died from the virus.  The ratio is worse in NYC.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 07, 2020, 08:04:49 AM
,,,,Since I don't know much about cataract surgery I was wondering if anyone on the forum has had the same procedure within the past few years and what questions I should be asking the doctor in our meeting.....

I didn't realize this was a bit more complicated, at least it sounds like it. I believe ML had cataract surgery not too long ago, too.

I have floaters in my left eye right now that's bugging the hell out of me. I feel like I'm in those Sci-Fi flick with alien invading my system from the eye. Hahah!

Good luck, Cal!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on May 07, 2020, 08:20:11 AM
We'll keep an eye out for your surgery results Doug.   Let us know how it goes. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 07, 2020, 08:47:12 AM
Was that a pun intended jone?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on May 07, 2020, 08:52:27 AM
I would never tease my friend, Doooglas.   Never.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 07, 2020, 08:58:30 AM
Parks, hiking trails and GOLF COURSES open this Saturday in LA County!! Finally!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on May 07, 2020, 02:06:36 PM
I thought I would do a little debriefing following my pre-op visit with the surgeon today.  The info might be of some future help for others that know as little as I did about cataract surgery.

Most of the conversation focused on the selection of which lens option you want implanted into the eye.  There are 3 basic options..
1.  Standard fixed focus lens.  Traditional choice for many years. Usually called "monofocal lenses.
2.  Toric fixed focus lens.  Used to correct astigmatism in moderate to severe cases.
3.  Multi-Focal lens.  Adaptable focus lenses that provides fair vision focus range from distant to near.  Often chosen to eliminate the need for glasses when that is of primary importance.

These are some of the tradeoffs the surgeon discussed....
1.  The standard monofocal lenses provide the best and sharpest focus of all the lenses.  The doctor gave me a personal example of how the choice was made within his family.  His father is an optical engineer and demanded and required the best possible sharpness of vision.  He chose the monofocal lenses.  His mother was retired and did usual daily activities such as driving, working around the house and reading.  She chose the multi-focal lenses and eliminated the need for glasses.  Her vision was adequate for her use.

2.  Toric lens.  In my case, my astigmatism is small enough that I do not need the toric lenses.

3.  Multi-focal lenses - I was surprised at his response about these lenses.  Not only did he agree with my assessment that I wanted to keep it simple, but he did not try to upsell me into the expensive multi-focus lenses.  He said that since I am an engineer he would explain the various tradeoffs in more detail than he does with most patients.  I am glad he did because I learned some things I want to pass on.

First, he did confirm that the multi-focal lenses are more complex and do create artifacts in vision in some patients.  More importantly, he explained that the multi-focus lenses only allow 50% of the light through as compared to the monofocal lenses.  He went on to remind me of college optics lessons about field of view (length of focus) compared to aperture.  I should have remembered this from photography studies but the wider the aperture (large pupil/low light) the narrower the field of view.  In other words in low light your range of focus is very limited compared to high light conditions which gives a very large range of focus.

The summary of that discussion is that with the monofocal lenses, you will be able to focus much sharper from infinity to maybe arms length than you would with the munli-focus lenses.  The downside of course is that you will need to wear glasses for reading and probably computer screens.  This is not a problem for me, I don't mind wearing glasses and hopefully, will not need tri-focal glasses after the surgery.  As I understand him, the monofocus lenses are calculated to give perfect vision at infinity and then depending on how well your eye adjusts, at some closer distance you need glasses to correct the near vision.  He clearly stated that multi-focus lenses are a compromise in vision sharpness.  Hope this explanation makes some sense.

Overall, I am quite pleased with this surgeon in that he is willing to take the time to explain the technical side of the science and also that he did not try to push the more expensive multi-focus lenses.  The multi-focus lenses were an additional $3000 per eye and the toric lenses were about $1200 additional per lens.

Hope this info is of some use to members that might be facing cataract surgery in the future.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 07, 2020, 02:46:55 PM
The summary of that discussion is that with the monofocal lenses, you will be able to focus much sharper from infinity to maybe arms length than you would with the munli-focus lenses.  The downside of course is that you will need to wear glasses for reading and probably computer screens.


Most adults start losing their ability to read around 40 yo. I have reading glasses at home but rarely use them. I have a big monitor. If a person needs, adjusting display settings can make words look bigger so glasses aren't needed. When I'm at the store and need to read small print on a product, I take out my iPhone, turn on the camera and magnify the words. No need to carry reading glasses anywhere I go.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 07, 2020, 03:20:42 PM
Kids with new medical issues are coming back to hospitals after their battle with COVID-19. There's going to be continued medical costs to individuals and nations even if we get rid of the virus someday

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/more-kids-hospitalized-with-possible-covid-19-complication/ar-BB13HWq5?ocid=spartanntp

Cases in Brazil, Russia, and Singapore continue to skyrocket. Warmer weather isn't stopping the virus.

In less than two months, 1 out of every 756 people in NY State died from the virus.  The ratio is worse in NYC.

Yeah I remember putting the link up when it was first reported in UK hospitals. Appears it is now US hospitals are finding it also. It gives a whole new dimension to an virus that at first seemed to affect mostly the very elderly and infirm. Not only that but different symptoms as well. Whether that is the virus mutating and doing that or was always a case of a bad reaction in some children who knows.

NYC appears to be hit very badly by the virus. Here like in the US ethnic minorities, particularly blacks are featuring as a higher percentage per population than white people.

This nurse in NYC seems to think that they aren't being treated well:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8290251/amp/NYC-nurse-claims-coronavirus-patients-literally-murdered.html

Myself though I would be dubious to think that is the main reason, it could in general be more down to genetics.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 07, 2020, 03:43:07 PM
New York and it's politicians politicizing the pandemic when it really shouldn't.

Volunteers getting taxed for helping out. (http://kutv.com/news/local/utah-healthcare-workers-who-volunteered-in-ny-may-have-to-pay-state-income-taxes)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 07, 2020, 04:04:02 PM
whatever the sign above you says...
Work Will Make You Free
--or--
You Are Free To Work

the dead all made a poor choice
wouldn’t ya say?

can I tell ya all a weird story
just to get it “off my chest”?
ok? thanks!

so...

I sent a smaller order of 10,000 SKUs of Syedobnyy Kaliforniya to Rostov Da Donut
I basically will make $50,000 when I flip it it under 24 hour in Rostov
way down south
my pilot has freaking GOLD credentials because of all the gov badges he has
BUT...
he also works PRIVATELY
on a freaking PERCENTAGE BASIS
can you freaking believe this sh^t???
no matter what, he flashes a badge, they snap to freaking attention and salute!!!
so this guy can not only FLY A FREAKING 4 ENGINE CARGO OR PASSENGER JET
ANYWHERE IN OR OUT OF RUSSIA, but he can also drive and go ANYWHERE he wants in Moscow!!!

DAMN!!!!!

anyway, when he lands in Moscva, he’s supposed to be in quarantine there...
BUT...
his badges get him out
and he heads out the airport onto 3-ring
and then he turns on his phone camera and didn’t turn it off until about 2 hr later

OMG!!! WTF, AM I SEEING!!!!

then, 6 hr later, he texts me that he just landed on the runway at the airport in Rostov
he said 2 things
1. it was freezing cold, +3
2. there was not a soul in the airport and the lights were off
at 5:30 AM when they landed, he tells me HE is scared!!!!

WTF?

then he texts me again
he unloaded by himself and will return to the airport tomorrow
to try and fly back to Tel Aviv
I hope he doesn’t get stuck there in Rostov
I have to wait until he wakes up to see what’s goin on

I mean, WTF is going on in Russia, I mean really?
am I making a dumb move by taking my kids there in a few months
even if later we end up in a heavily protected area?

I see the area that the clinic is in where my daughters and I are expected to stay at least 4 weeks is not a real secure part of Moscow, not at all...
we'd probably have nothing more than just regular police protection...
which means very little protection 6 months from now!!
we'd be almost unprotected there!!
in the time of Bolshoi Bardak
even the blind will know something is wrong with Moscva
because of the change in the smell of the city

the risk factor is starting to grow in Russia now
not JUST grow
but grow EXPONENTIALLY

one day, there will be blood in the snow again

timing is everything
if I time it right, we can win the game
if I don't
I sacrifice my children
to the shock wave the plague is starting to create in Russia
which...
yes,
means "blood in the snow" once more
as the opposing force to social disorder

10 years of change in the next 6 months

ALSO
please note

the USA just withdrew all of its Air Defenses from Saudi Arabia!!!!
why'd it do that?
plus, it lost two carriers in the Persian Gulf to Corona and the French lost one

Iran, just launched a satellite with a technology that can EASILY be adapted
to be a two stage Nuclear IRBM with a copy of a Russian Neutron Bomb...

it would take about 40 of these missiles to wipe out all of Saudi Arabia's air defenses
any maybe 10 more for Naval
and 10 for ground forces targets

60 of these missiles for a nuclear first strike with low permanent radiation high neutron burst Neutron Bombs on the Saudis
this leaves the whole country open for the 2nd wave air attack
boosted by hundreds of Russian planes
just the Russian planes will wipe out what's left of the Saudi Air Force on day one

3rd wave is by Iran's Navy with new gen SilkWorm missiles
these not only finish off the Navy
but have also been reprogrammed to be Ship to Ground attack missiles also with the same low yield Neutron bomb
the have both nukes and conventional warheads
this wave takes out 90% of the military strength from roughly half of Saudi Arabia

Day 2 would be shore landings and air landings into Saudi territory and secure first airfields
and ports
and begin troop transfer

planes start hammering the remainder of the forces
who have no air defenses

then Iran shoots a Neutron Bomb into the capitol district that has the highest number of royal family members
next day the Saudis surrender

so, it's kinda like the "Six Day War" in its time compressed nuclear ferocity
but literally in the course of a week, this attack gives Iran and Russia control of the world's oil and gas
and then GUESS WHAT HAPPENS?
YOU KNOW?
there can never be two...
there can ONLY be one!
WHICH ONE?


well...
as soon as Russia counts how many of its Neutron Bombs that Iran has fired off, and realizes that it's almost all out of its low yield warheads...
it'll attack Iran, in outrage over Shias attacking poor Sunnis
and gets the mullas all riled up

many of the combat soldiers will be battle trained in Ukraine
but Russia will also use nukes
but MUCH better ones
ANOTHER
quick war

now Russia controls all the world's oil and gas


PS
Selling "Narkotica" as some foreign exotic candy has been a pure gold concept in Russia among the under 30 professional generation
this product is INSANELY popular
it removes the stigma if it's "just candy"

having a Russian brand is the next step in "Product Development" as well well as "Brand Diversification"
with new lines of Elitny Edibles
that have THC-Acetate/THC ratios
as well as one that adds a 100X concentrated extract of Salvia divinorum
and you will TRIP HARD and have AMAZING visuals
 





Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on May 07, 2020, 04:18:43 PM
Doug, I had the cataract surgery on both eyes about 3 years ago.  They do only one  eye, and then 3-4 weeks later the second.  During that period, your seeing is pretty screwed up.  Take one lens out of your distance glasses for eye that was fixed, the other eye uses the lens for seeing . . . but it is somewhat disoriented viewing.  The doc explained to me why . . . but I couldn't really follow the logic.
I went with the standard lens and achieved 20/20 in both eyes.  Then, need reading glasses.
The real rip off was that he said I had astigmatism in one eye, and standard lens doesn't fix it.  So he said I would still have to wear glasses for that one eye to be able to see distant . . . or for $1,400 (not paid by insurance) he would do a micro cut to fix it up.  Took him 2 seconds to make the cut, if he even did it.

I didn't want to mess around with any lens except the standard.  I have worn glasses since 14 years of age, so don't mind wearing to read and use computer screen as now.

Don't know if they have a Dollar Tree store out there, but I got about 20 pair of glasses there at dollar each.  Various strengths:  I use 1.5 for computer and some reading, but need 2 to read newspaper and smaller print books, labels, etc.  I have a pair in every room, each car, etc.  You can get some really tiny ones to carry in car and then into WalMart or wherever.  You have to take them off to find aisles, etc, and then wear them to read labels.  Not a biggie.

Wife even decided she needed help with reading, so got her 10 pair of 1.0.

A couple of years ago she took 10 pair or so to her parents in Ukraine.

Sure, a couple of pairs broke; but beats the heck out of $5-10-50 ones; not to mention a two hundred or more for optician to prescribe EXACTLY what you need and grind them up.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: jone on May 07, 2020, 05:05:55 PM
whatever the sign above you says...
Work Will Make You Free
--or--
You Are Free To Work

the dead all made a poor choice
wouldn’t ya say?

can I tell ya all a weird story
just to get it “off my chest”?
ok? thanks!

so...

I sent a smaller order of 10,000 SKUs of Syedobnyy Kaliforniya to Rostov Da Donut
I basically will make $50,000 when I flip it it under 24 hour in Rostov
way down south
my pilot has freaking GOLD credentials because of all the gov badges he has
BUT...
he also works PRIVATELY
on a freaking PERCENTAGE BASIS
can you freaking believe this sh^t???
no matter what, he flashes a badge, they snap to freaking attention and salute!!!
so this guy can not only FLY A FREAKING 4 ENGINE CARGO OR PASSENGER JET
ANYWHERE IN OR OUT OF RUSSIA, but he can also drive and go ANYWHERE he wants in Moscow!!!

DAMN!!!!!

anyway, when he lands in Moscva, he’s supposed to be in quarantine there...
BUT...
his badges get him out
and he heads out the airport onto 3-ring
and then he turns on his phone camera and didn’t turn it off until about 2 hr later

OMG!!! WTF, AM I SEEING!!!!

then, 6 hr later, he texts me that he just landed on the runway at the airport in Rostov
he said 2 things
1. it was freezing cold, +3
2. there was not a soul in the airport and the lights were off
at 5:30 AM when they landed, he tells me HE is scared!!!!

WTF?

then he texts me again
he unloaded by himself and will return to the airport tomorrow
to try and fly back to Tel Aviv
I hope he doesn’t get stuck there in Rostov
I have to wait until he wakes up to see what’s goin on

I mean, WTF is going on in Russia, I mean really?
am I making a dumb move by taking my kids there in a few months
even if later we end up in a heavily protected area?

I see the area that the clinic is in where my daughters and I are expected to stay at least 4 weeks is not a real secure part of Moscow, not at all...
we'd probably have nothing more than just regular police protection...
which means very little protection 6 months from now!!
we'd be almost unprotected there!!
in the time of Bolshoi Bardak
even the blind will know something is wrong with Moscva
because of the change in the smell of the city

the risk factor is starting to grow in Russia now
not JUST grow
but grow EXPONENTIALLY

one day, there will be blood in the snow again

timing is everything
if I time it right, we can win the game
if I don't
I sacrifice my children
to the shock wave the plague is starting to create in Russia
which...
yes,
means "blood in the snow" once more
as the opposing force to social disorder

10 years of change in the next 6 months

ALSO
please note

the USA just withdrew all of its Air Defenses from Saudi Arabia!!!!
why'd it do that?
plus, it lost two carriers in the Persian Gulf to Corona and the French lost one

Iran, just launched a satellite with a technology that can EASILY be adapted
to be a two stage Nuclear IRBM with a copy of a Russian Neutron Bomb...

it would take about 40 of these missiles to wipe out all of Saudi Arabia's air defenses
any maybe 10 more for Naval
and 10 for ground forces targets

60 of these missiles for a nuclear first strike with low permanent radiation high neutron burst Neutron Bombs on the Saudis
this leaves the whole country open for the 2nd wave air attack
boosted by hundreds of Russian planes
just the Russian planes will wipe out what's left of the Saudi Air Force on day one

3rd wave is by Iran's Navy with new gen SilkWorm missiles
these not only finish off the Navy
but have also been reprogrammed to be Ship to Ground attack missiles also with the same low yield Neutron bomb
the have both nukes and conventional warheads
this wave takes out 90% of the military strength from roughly half of Saudi Arabia

Day 2 would be shore landings and air landings into Saudi territory and secure first airfields
and ports
and begin troop transfer

planes start hammering the remainder of the forces
who have no air defenses

then Iran shoots a Neutron Bomb into the capitol district that has the highest number of royal family members
next day the Saudis surrender

so, it's kinda like the "Six Day War" in its time compressed nuclear ferocity
but literally in the course of a week, this attack gives Iran and Russia control of the world's oil and gas
and then GUESS WHAT HAPPENS?
YOU KNOW?
there can never be two...
there can ONLY be one!
WHICH ONE?


well...
as soon as Russia counts how many of its Neutron Bombs that Iran has fired off, and realizes that it's almost all out of its low yield warheads...
it'll attack Iran, in outrage over Shias attacking poor Sunnis
and gets the mullas all riled up

many of the combat soldiers will be battle trained in Ukraine
but Russia will also use nukes
but MUCH better ones
ANOTHER
quick war

now Russia controls all the world's oil and gas


PS
Selling "Narkotica" as some foreign exotic candy has been a pure gold concept in Russia among the under 30 professional generation
this product is INSANELY popular
it removes the stigma if it's "just candy"

having a Russian brand is the next step in "Product Development" as well well as "Brand Diversification"
with new lines of Elitny Edibles
that have THC-Acetate/THC ratios
as well as one that adds a 100X concentrated extract of Salvia divinorum
and you will TRIP HARD and have AMAZING visuals

Tom Clancy is dead.   Long live Tom Clancy!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on May 07, 2020, 05:14:41 PM
ML,

Thanks for the comments regarding your cataract surgery.
One thing I forgot to mention was that when I asked the surgeon about whether I was 'knocked out' during the surgery.  I am not sure I understand the response.  He said something to the affect that they will make me comfortable but I will be fully aware of everything.  Might feel some pressure on the eyeball, but I will be made comfortable.  He went on to explain that he may need me to move my eye during the procedure up/dn/rt/lt, etc.  Sounds kind of crazy and I did not pursue the question further.

My friend in Santa Barbara told me he did not remember anything during his procedure until he was woke up afterward.

What was your experience?  I have to admit I don't fully understand this at the moment.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 07, 2020, 06:48:28 PM
  I am not sure I understand the response.  He said something to the affect that they will make me comfortable but I will be fully aware of everything.  Might feel some pressure on the eyeball, but I will be made comfortable.  He went on to explain that he may need me to move my eye during the procedure up/dn/rt/lt, etc.  Sounds kind of crazy and I did not pursue the question further.


He probably doesn't want to scare you into cancelling. When I went in for Lasik, I was awake the whole time. I laid on my back and they dropped some medicine in my eyes which numbed them and prevented my eye muscles from working. They used something to keep the eyelids open and then wiped my eyes clean. Then they moved a tool over the first eye and the laser began to carve away. Things got blurry and I smelled burning flesh. I wasn't worried knowing my doctor had successfully done the procedure 100,000 times. The most painful thing was the healing process over the next few days. My eyesight was blurry for a month before going 20/20
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on May 07, 2020, 07:05:16 PM
Thanks Billy
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on May 07, 2020, 07:22:55 PM
ML,

Thanks for the comments regarding your cataract surgery.
One thing I forgot to mention was that when I asked the surgeon about whether I was 'knocked out' during the surgery.  I am not sure I understand the response.  He said something to the affect that they will make me comfortable but I will be fully aware of everything.  Might feel some pressure on the eyeball, but I will be made comfortable.  He went on to explain that he may need me to move my eye during the procedure up/dn/rt/lt, etc.  Sounds kind of crazy and I did not pursue the question further.

My friend in Santa Barbara told me he did not remember anything during his procedure until he was woke up afterward.

What was your experience?  I have to admit I don't fully understand this at the moment.

You will be fully awake.  The doc will only take about 10-15 to do his job.  The longest time is spent getting your eye numbed.  The nurses will give you 5 or more drops of various things over 30-40 minutes.  Those drops will cause you eye to not feel anything during the procedure, which is good of course.

I was worried about how they were going to hold my eyelids open, but I didn't feel anything or be aware of what was holding my eyelid open.  I was not asked to move my eye at all.

The final nurse who gave me another set of drops told me she would hold my hand during the entire procedure, and she did.  But don't think I really noticed much in terms of feeling her hand holding mine.

The whole thing was sort of unreal, but because it went quickly with no pain, I would say you have nothing to be concerned about.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on May 07, 2020, 07:39:02 PM
Thanks ML
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on May 07, 2020, 07:48:17 PM
Apparently most commercial labs now have the tests for the Corona antibody tests.  For those members that think they may have had the virus with minimal symptoms, you might want to contact your physician and request the test.  In my case I requested my doctor to add it to my routine blood tests done quarterly.  He did and the results came back today.  They were negative for the antibodies.  Knowing I don't have the antibodies is important to me in that it tells me I am still in the high risk category and need to remain vigilant about social distancing.

FWIW, someone at work told me about a medical supply company here that has masks, sanitizers, etc in stock. I stopped by and bought 2 bottles of Purell and two canisters of the disinfectant wipes that I will now keep in the truck and car.  We still don't have these products on our supermarket shelves.
 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 07, 2020, 09:42:40 PM
X27 camera clone back end with HQ optical zoom front end
and Illuminator
to be attached to AK receiver’s rail
same power bank also drives solenoid trigger pulses
and powers controller to trigger pulses
we buy 80% receivers and then do the other 20%
add color night vision gunsight
and an electronic trigger with 4 buttons
that has single shot or sets 3 different rates for automatic
fastest is 15 rounds per secong

this is a legal full auto AK
with color night vision
next week will be fitting silencers
all to be exported from USA

pic of solenoid trigger
and color night vision imager
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 08, 2020, 04:31:34 AM
The current measures have been a blessing in disguise for me. Since about 10 years I have effectively 1 eye and in January it slowly lost vision. A visit to the eye clinic resulted in an emergency operation as the retina had let loose and theeye lense (which was replaced about 30 years ago) was floating around random.New eye lense nd 360 degree laser correction meant I was blind for a couple of days and am now slowly recovering, it will be 6 months until all is set properly.It also meant that I have to reduce my work and stay at home for extended time.Luckily the whole country decided to support me and do the same.
My vision is improving, however I need to limit my time on PC and phone in order to keep it sharp.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on May 08, 2020, 08:25:54 AM
Apparently most commercial labs now have the tests for the Corona antibody tests.   


Tests which are next to worthless. Must be over 50 different tests , all never regulated for anything!!
Unfortunately, it gives people false sense of security.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on May 08, 2020, 09:00:25 AM

My vision is improving, however I need to limit my time on PC and phone in order to keep it sharp.
But do you still wear those same glasses?........(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/useravs/85b466aa01.jpg)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 08, 2020, 09:02:54 AM
Apparently most commercial labs now have the tests for the Corona antibody tests.  For those members that think they may have had the virus with minimal symptoms, you might want to contact your physician and request the test.  In my case I requested my doctor to add it to my routine blood tests done quarterly.  He did and the results came back today.  They were negative for the antibodies.  Knowing I don't have the antibodies is important to me in that it tells me I am still in the high risk category and need to remain vigilant about social distancing.

FWIW, someone at work told me about a medical supply company here that has masks, sanitizers, etc in stock. I stopped by and bought 2 bottles of Purell and two canisters of the disinfectant wipes that I will now keep in the truck and car.  We still don't have these products on our supermarket shelves.
FYI, I was awake during the whole procedure. This was actually a great experience a there was a light atmosphere during most of the operation.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 08, 2020, 11:23:42 AM
plumes of smoke in the distance over the river...
silent, empty streets
Moscva death toll is 3X reported
mass graves being readied

I can see how...
fire is the devil’s favorite friend
fear is the fuel that feeds the flames
they all work together, teamwork

as the pendulum swings in this direction
a hidden counterforce is being readied
soon these forces will collide and struggle

after the fall...
after...
what will be the name of this death march
that left so many
by the side of the road
with the sunlight
in their open eyes
before the crows came and started pecking at them




Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 08, 2020, 01:00:04 PM
But do you still wear those same glasses?........(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/useravs/85b466aa01.jpg)
I might actually need those now. But currently no glasses until the hospital considers the situation stable. Instead all fonts maxxed out and electronig magnifying glass to read
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 09, 2020, 12:04:56 AM
plumes of smoke in the distance over the river...
silent, empty streets
Moscva death toll is 3X reported
mass graves being readied

I can see how...
fire is the devil’s favorite friend
fear is the fuel that feeds the flames
they all work together, teamwork

as the pendulum swings in this direction
a hidden counterforce is being readied
soon these forces will collide and struggle

after the fall...
after...
what will be the name of this death march
that left so many
by the side of the road
with the sunlight
in their open eyes
before the crows came and started pecking at them

Are you in Moscow now Krim? Didn't realise it would be so soon? Wasn't even sure if much in the way of planes were still flying.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 09, 2020, 12:34:59 PM
Most economies around the world seem to be predicting that there will be around a 10 percent decline this year followed by a sharp rebound of perhaps around 7 percent as s rough overview. I definitely think we are likely to get the decline in pretty much every country but I am more skeptical of a sharp rebound. I tend to think this is more wishful thinking either that or we will get a rebound like that BUT like in the 90s under John Major high unemployment will continue a number of years. I think the high unemployment for a good many years is highly probable and something governments around the world are probably less willing to share knowledge of with the general public.

A couple of days or so ago now the UK Chancellor announced that the Furlough scheme will start winding down in June, with payments being reduced from 80 percent to 60 percent and will look to Employers to take back on the staff on Furlough that are still on their books as they reopen. It will be that of course or they will have to lay them off. So to my mind June will likely be the first indicator of rising unemployment as a result of layoffs due to the Coronavirus lockdown. From then on I'm guessing layoffs will get worse in July and August as more Employers/Employees are faced with either being taken back on or being laid off again.


In other news a 6 month year old baby died of Coronavirus in a foreign country, the youngest yet and again proof that anyone can succumb to it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 10, 2020, 01:05:42 AM
I thought this news item might be useful for any UK member who thought driving from Wales to Dorset and back ( frequently) was quite 'legal'..


http://metro.co.uk/2020/05/09/four-people-fined-driving-200-miles-look-boat-12677341/ (http://metro.co.uk/2020/05/09/four-people-fined-driving-200-miles-look-boat-12677341/)

Four people fined for driving 200 miles to look at a boat...

"Inspector Andy Williams said: ‘While the majority of people are complying with the restrictions that have been put in place to ensure our own safety, we are still coming across a small minority who do not seem to understand the regulations.



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 10, 2020, 01:51:38 AM
As in past burst bubbles and crashes, the road back to employment will be a long one.

Companies have another chance to get rid of extra positions without affecting PR and will keep a critical eye on whom they rehire, maybe even at lower wages.

Others will move wherever jobs are, starting again at the bottom of the ladder in terms of wages and vacation.

Many will be left out for some time to come.

Time is ripe for a higher national minimum wage along with standardizing benefits like 20-day minimum vacations, sick leave and other benefits like healthcare.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 10, 2020, 02:26:07 AM
I thought this news item might be useful for any UK member who thought driving from Wales to Dorset and back ( frequently) was quite 'legal'..


http://metro.co.uk/2020/05/09/four-people-fined-driving-200-miles-look-boat-12677341/ (http://metro.co.uk/2020/05/09/four-people-fined-driving-200-miles-look-boat-12677341/)

Four people fined for driving 200 miles to look at a boat...

"Inspector Andy Williams said: ‘While the majority of people are complying with the restrictions that have been put in place to ensure our own safety, we are still coming across a small minority who do not seem to understand the regulations.

Well if you took me off block you would be able to read my cracking reply that would all but reassure you I am doing it by the book.

My situation is that I drive around an 80 mile journey each way to work and back. My work is in Dorset, my home is in Wales, I am a Key Worker so I am apparently vital :D

Not my fault the EU swamped this country so full of East Europeans that Wales was the nearest cheapest place I could afford to my workplace.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 10, 2020, 07:35:25 AM
Mighty Deutscheland is reporting a rise in cases as lockdown eases:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-52604676

So the report of a rise to around 1.1 or more is not good news as this is likely to be replicated in other countries as lockdown eases. A number above 1 means Coronavirus is likely to remain a persistent threat to most of the nation. It also means that post lockdown measures aren't addressing the situation well enough in Germany, that it is allowing restrictions to be too loose in some areas.

To my mind that would mean countries should start looking at big fundamental changes to the way we do things. In some respects this virus could be the driver that advances us forward into a new modern way of working that we might otherwise have lazily drifted too over many years or dacades.

My own thought is that a lot of the retail chain is going to have to shift from retail shops & supermarkets to click & collect and delivery only. I see just too many people out and about too close to each other even with the 2 meter 'minimum' guide and wearing little in the way of protective gear when I'm out and about. I on the other hand always wear a face mask, gloves etc when visiting the supermarket & DIY store :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on May 10, 2020, 07:39:44 AM

My own thought is that a lot of the retail chain is going to have to shift from retail shops & supermarkets to click & collect

Casinos are already adapting.

They now come out to your car, take your money directly, smile and wave you on your way.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 10, 2020, 08:00:01 AM

Time is ripe for a higher national minimum wage along with standardizing benefits like 20-day minimum vacations, sick leave and other benefits like healthcare.

This and many, many other "progressive" new order proposals will be proposed by the Democrat House as the Republican Senate and administration focus on economic recovery.  It won't  happen and these will become election issues. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on May 10, 2020, 02:43:48 PM
Gator, agree 100%
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Confederate on May 10, 2020, 03:14:17 PM
Time is ripe for a higher national minimum wage along with standardizing benefits like 20-day minimum vacations, sick leave and other benefits like healthcare.
This and many, many other "progressive" new order proposals will be proposed by the Democrat House as the Republican Senate and administration focus on economic recovery.  It won't happen and these will become election issues.

All of BC’s proposals and more could easily be funded if the USA

didn’t have huge military budgets and secret CIA budgets, but

war is very profitable for bankers and other sociopaths. :popcorn:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on May 10, 2020, 10:50:56 PM
All of BC’s proposals and more could easily be funded if the USA

didn’t have huge military budgets and secret CIA budgets, but

war is very profitable for bankers and other sociopaths. :popcorn:
agree....

Fathertime!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on May 10, 2020, 10:55:55 PM
Due to the corona virus, I'm no longer to visit my poor old pops through the window of his assisted living home...nobody is allowed on the premises at all.  He is effectively deaf so there will be no telephone calls either.  He is now alone and in the care of strangers completely. 

Fathertime!   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 11, 2020, 01:34:10 AM
Due to the corona virus, I'm no longer to visit my poor old pops through the window of his assisted living home...nobody is allowed on the premises at all.  He is effectively deaf so there will be no telephone calls either.  He is now alone and in the care of strangers completely. 

Fathertime!   

EXACTLY, this is the cruelest feature of this pandemic and why I'm #stayingathome with my Ma who has dementia and just wouldn't 'get' why her family weren't visiting ...(


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 12, 2020, 12:47:55 AM
A new study has modeled how a sample of COVID-19 patients who died might have been expected to fare without an infection, and the results were stark.
The study, which is awaiting peer review, estimated that the average years of life lost for a sample of coronavirus patients in Italy when controlling for a set of common underlying conditions was 13 years for men and 11 years for women.

http://www.businessinsider.com/study-finds-that-people-who-have-coronavirus-could-die-10-years-early-2020-5


The study, which is still awaiting peer review to ensure accuracy and validity, confirms what should seem obvious, but is nevertheless sobering: COVID-19 is not killing people who are already near death, rather it's claiming the lives of many people more than a decade before their time.
"Clearly, there has been a school of thought that individuals that succumbed to COVID-19 are already seriously ill with minimal years of life left to live. This quantitative assessment clears up that misconception showing that years of life lost is over a decade.

"This finding holds even after adjusting for underlying chronic conditions," he added.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/people-coronavirus-dying-10-years-earlier-naturally-study/story?id=70511494

If there's no immunity and no vaccine ever found, COVID-19 will probably be the cause of our deaths. Just a matter of time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 12, 2020, 01:04:55 AM
Bottom line:  Many deaths will have been preventable.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 12, 2020, 01:31:21 AM
UK Coronavirus .. BoJo makes us all confused !

VERY confusing and conflicting advice ..

England says folks from France and Ireland are welcome...

Rep of Ireland says "While Boris Johnson this week announced that people arriving into the UK from Ireland and France do not have to quarantine, such an exemption is not being reciprocated here.

Philip Ryan reports on new regulations which will give Gardaí the power to enforce a mandatory 14-day quarantine for all passengers who arrive in Ireland from overseas."  ( source Independant.ie)

So, someone can drive from France, enter the UK, take the Liverpool car ferry to Belfast (N.Ireland) and end up in the Rep. of Ireland..?!. :hidechair:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N84eHEi4MoQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N84eHEi4MoQ)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 12, 2020, 05:46:43 AM
Dmitry Peskov, the Kremlin Pres spokesman is hospitalised after testing positive with the virus

Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov in hospital with Covid-19


http://www.rt.com/russia/488442-perskov-coronavirus-kremlin-positive/ (http://www.rt.com/russia/488442-perskov-coronavirus-kremlin-positive/)

For those of you not familiar with him, he was a the RU face that told us no Russian military were involved in the military takeover of Crimea and that his VERY expensive watch was a gift from someone ( his future wife ) that he wasn't in a relationship with when 'received' and it may have cost 30 times his annual salary ...

If you didn't 'agree' with his explanation, he offered to have the case heard by a Russian Court ..  :popcorn:

I may think the chap is somewhat economical with the truth, but wish him a speedy recovery ..   Those that recover seem to understand the seriousness of the virus and are vital in govt




Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 12, 2020, 10:28:33 AM
Bottom line:  Many deaths will have been preventable.


Deaths are going to happen. We have t sacrifice economy to prevent COVID-19 deaths. But if we sacrifice too much economy, we'll have people die of other means and there will be a whole lot of depression. Nobody knows the right answer to this. There has to be a balance of sacrificing enough economy so we don't overload our hospitals and increase the amount of people in need of lifetime medical care due to damaged organs.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 12, 2020, 10:49:39 AM
The world WANTS to be deceived, so LET IT be deceived...
I’m glad you’re all willing to die for me, so I can be safe in my bunker and protect all the wimmin
spossiba BOLSHOI moy manoga droogs...

The road to wealth is also the highway of debt...
The economy is faithfully represented by a heavily manipulated stock market that has NOTHING to do with the actual condition of the people
but in the coming future, the virus will make it ALL COLLAPSE...
EVERYTHING
when the debt mountain starts an avalanche

I plan on living off the grid with guns, gold and girls
but I have to give up the drugs at least for awhile when I go to Russia
and get really "scrutinized"
that SUCKS
this time next year, Moscva will look like a Soviet Labor Camp
that SUCKS to...
glad I'll be in Costa Rica with Poison Ivy on the beach
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 12, 2020, 04:24:20 PM
Deaths are going to happen. We have t sacrifice economy to prevent COVID-19 deaths. But if we sacrifice too much economy, we'll have people die of other means and there will be a whole lot of depression. Nobody knows the right answer to this. There has to be a balance of sacrificing enough economy so we don't overload our hospitals and increase the amount of people in need of lifetime medical care due to damaged organs.

I agree Billy, I think the real problem is going to be being caught between an economy that never really gets anywhere near full steam again before cases rise forcing countries to just enable only a percentage of full capacity working.

Here in the UK they have just announced the furlough scheme will be extended to October. Yes I think it needs to be as we need to get virus numbers down a lot more before working capacity increases but the fact that they are going to take it through to October also indicates to me that they are struggling with this a lot more than many think and that is bad news sign rather than good.

Essentially unless countries change the way they do business to more along the model that Amazon use I don't think that we will make the headway needed in terms of getting the economy near enough full capacity whilst also keeping down virus numbers.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 12, 2020, 05:39:38 PM
“Apocalypse Now"
ain’t a Spielberg movie
just like “Denial” ain’t a river in Egypt!

but pretty much how some of us at least, are gonna be livin at this time next year
and yeah, no sh^t, those of us LEFT ALIVE...

you better learn to adapt to the brave new world that’s-a-comin folks...

I have to drift between a couple of different worlds over the course of the next year
and my life is going to totally change in just a few more months when I leave the USA
temporarily

I shall return
to my off-grid family compound
which by then will be fully proofed against night time Molotov cocktail attacks
cuz all the damage done during riots, is pretty much by fire and looting
neighborhood watch mans the community barricade behind the gated entrance...
a collection of automatic rifles and shotguns
case someone who ain’t from our hood tries to come on in at night
well, I don’t know about that...
I got 40 round AK74 mag, and two more on my vest
these are the old steel core rounds 5.45x39
I would freaking cut a heavy pickup truck in half along with the dumb ass drivin it with that much ammo if he tried to crash the gate
and that's just me, the other guys are also dumping lead on his dead ass!!
I hope this night doesn't come, but I KNOW by summer of '21 it WILL!!
so later this year, I work out our video security system
Title: Coronavirus news
Post by: 2tallbill on May 12, 2020, 10:45:02 PM
Maria Branyas: 'Oldest woman in Spain' beats coronavirus at 113
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52641659
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 13, 2020, 07:26:39 AM
Yet another case of a teenager passing away from the Covid syndrome that is affecting children going around:

http://uk.yahoo.com/news/kawasaki-disease-teenager-dies-london-093207625.html

14 Years old and no underlying health conditions.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 14, 2020, 12:09:49 AM
Funny how most gov's around the world including our own have now backtrackedand gone against their earlier 'official advice' of the ineffectiveness of face masks and are now asking the public to wear them in certain situations, lol. I of course along with a few others on here saw that they had their own interests rather than that of the wider public. I'm already long since sorted on that front :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 14, 2020, 02:56:06 AM
Well, I see Dr.Fauci is being told off...

BBC News - Coronavirus: Trump says Dr Fauci's warning 'not acceptable'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52656959
 (http://BBC News - Coronavirus: Trump says Dr Fauci's warning 'not acceptable'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52656959)

Can't have medics speaking their minds in the land of the free..
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on May 14, 2020, 05:26:53 AM
Well, I see Dr.Fauci is being told off...

BBC News - Coronavirus: Trump says Dr Fauci's warning 'not acceptable'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52656959
 (http://BBC News - Coronavirus: Trump says Dr Fauci's warning 'not acceptable'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52656959)

Can't have medics speaking their minds in the land of the free..

Well. I see you're still the poster boy for useful idiot. You absorb the narrative being fed you without question. Fauci has been consistently wrong since the discovery of the virus. Doctors who are discovering and speaking out against that narrative are the ones being silenced. Fauci on the other hand remains on the world stage
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 14, 2020, 06:06:54 AM
FP,

When a scientist formulates a hypothesis, it is subject to change as new evidence is forthcoming.

(http://rationalfaith.com/img/scientific_method_770.jpg)

So Fauci has not been consistently wrong but instead has become more correct as additional facts become available.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on May 14, 2020, 06:26:50 AM
FP,

When a scientist formulates a hypothesis, it is subject to change as new evidence is forthcoming.


So Fauci has not been consistently wrong but instead has become more correct as additional facts become available.

BC,

You can put all the lipstick and rouge on that pig you wish, it's still a pig. I totally understand a formulated hypothesis with the information available. That doesn't change the fact that he has been consistently wrong. Early on he followed the WHO narrative. Nothing to see here, China has it under control and forthcoming, no danger to the US. He is still following that same narrative

Fauci is as he's stated many times a scientist not a policy maker yet the narrative being fed the entire world is his follow Fauci's advice exclusively and Trump is bad, ignore Trump. Fauci is but one expert weighing in. Fauci has also been found to be involved with globalists, drug companies, patents and an apparent agenda. Does that negate his advice? No, but it certainly it means more info and advice is needed to be weighed with other experts in other affected fields. We elected Trump not Fauci to make these decisions
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on May 14, 2020, 06:46:17 AM
FP,

This is just ludicrous.  A scientist doing his job is now suddenly wrong because Trump decided to ignore his advice and those of other scientists?

He is now "against Trump" because he didn't agree with suggesting unproven medicines as miracle cures?  And that disinfectants and UV rays should be used to kill the virus on infected patients?

I guess your listening or reading whatever partisan piece is trying to push about Fauci.  Let's reopen america...except us at Fox News because we in reality see the risks and require all our staff to stay home...

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on May 14, 2020, 07:46:08 AM
FP,

This is just ludicrous.  A scientist doing his job is now suddenly wrong because Trump decided to ignore his advice and those of other scientists?

Bull. Did you read what I wrote? A scientists job isn't to make policy. Fauci was wrong in the earlier stages of the virus is what I said. Guess what, he's still wrong. It has nothing to do with Trump ignoring his advice of which largely, Trump hasn't done

Quote
He is now "against Trump" because he didn't agree with suggesting unproven medicines as miracle cures?  And that disinfectants and UV rays should be used to kill the virus on infected patients?

More bull. He isn't against Trump. Are you suggesting he's against Trump because Trump doesn't follow his advice exclusively? What? You are looking like another useful idiot making that statement. Again Trump follows much of Fauci's advice. Everywhere he doesn't is a media microscope. BTW hydroxychloroquine has been very successful in combating covid. You should research the front line doctors using it. Do you not question why it isn't included in the WHO and CDC protocol for treating covid? Do you not question why the Chinese have been manufacturing remdesivir since March? You should

Quote
I guess your listening or reading whatever partisan piece is trying to push about Fauci.  Let's reopen america...except us at Fox News because we in reality see the risks and require all our staff to stay home...

More bull from you. You have no clue as to where I gather my information prior to coming to a reasoned conclusion as I actually "think" for myself as opposed to being told what to think.You should try that too. I give not one wit that you hate Trump to the point you can't think for yourself but please don't expect us all to follow your chosen path
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 14, 2020, 08:33:18 AM
'us all' ?

Nice try at seeking 'assertion' there, Mr Mistake.


In the meantime I am wondering who 'us' is ..?

http://www.businessinsider.com/white-house-disputes-polls-that-show-fauci-is-more-trusted-than-trump-on-coronavirus-2020-5?

During a CBS News interview, McEnany was asked to comment on the network's new poll showing that 62% of Americans trust Fauci, while just 38% trust the president.


An Insider poll conducted late last month found that 64% of Americans trusted Fauci, while just 19% trusted Trump to effectively handle the pandemic.

I'm not sure about anyone else, but it is clear some folks have been rather too desperate to try to dent the cred of said Dr ..



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on May 14, 2020, 08:39:44 AM
'us all' ?

Nice try at seeking 'assertion' there, Mr Mistake.


In the meantime I am wondering who 'us' is ..?

http://www.businessinsider.com/white-house-disputes-polls-that-show-fauci-is-more-trusted-than-trump-on-coronavirus-2020-5?

During a CBS News interview, McEnany was asked to comment on the network's new poll showing that 62% of Americans trust Fauci, while just 38% trust the president.


An Insider poll conducted late last month found that 64% of Americans trusted Fauci, while just 19% trusted Trump to effectively handle the pandemic.

I'm not sure about anyone else, but it is clear some folks have been rather too desperate to try to dent the cred of said Dr ..

That's your strawman, you attack it and good luck with that "new cbs poll"

 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 14, 2020, 08:46:57 AM
That's your strawman, you attack it and good luck with that "new cbs poll"


I understand, Mr Mistake, that was the 'best riposte'  you could offer ...

FAIL
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on May 14, 2020, 09:28:49 AM
I understand, Mr Mistake, that was the 'best riposte'  you could offer ...

FAIL


You built it, have at it
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 14, 2020, 10:26:48 AM
FP,

When a scientist formulates a hypothesis, it is subject to change as new evidence is forthcoming.

So Fauci has not been consistently wrong but instead has become more correct as additional facts become available. 

'more correct'?  :ROFL: He wasn't 'quite correct' before? Maybe a little, more or less 'wrong'? LMAO. what? 35% correct then, now 61%?

Sheesh, I thought there was an urgency to be 'right' with this whole madness! My bad.

Good thing this virus is NOT as lethal as it is. Fact: on a *conservative* look, there's a 95% survival rate with this virus, and conservative means...it's based on 'known' (reported) total cases not including asymptomatic cases...

In addition, and more importantly, survivability heightens too if you're not a wheezing old fart.

Shelter the most vulnerable, the very vast majority of whom happens to be those outside the work force and general societal function. Protect them, shield them, do what needs to be done to keep them from harm. That's fact and a 'known' reality.

99.99% of our society can go back to work and reality.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on May 14, 2020, 12:09:41 PM

Shelter the most vulnerable, the very vast majority of whom happens to be those outside the work force and general societal function. Protect them, shield them, do what needs to be done to keep them from harm.

On weekend news show a medical guy from Johns Hopkins was asked about this.
He said that when you total the people over age (can't remember if 60 or 65) and others who had serious medical pre-existing conditions . . . it is a third of people in USA.

His conclusion . . . not possible to keep this number of people isolated from general population.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 14, 2020, 12:24:04 PM
On weekend news show a medical guy from Johns Hopkins was asked about this.
He said that when you total the people over age (can't remember if 60 or 65) and others who had serious medical pre-existing conditions . . . it is a third of people in USA.

His conclusion . . . not possible to keep this number of people isolated from general population.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/241488/population-of-the-us-by-sex-and-age/

50Mil+ of the population are > 60. Not all of them have medical condition. 60 is, for what its worth, is still fairly 'young'. hell, they aren't even retired yet.

Again, the very vast majority of the infected recovers. This is not including the asymptomatic cases, which no one knows exactly how many. But estimates ranges from 5x to 10x at least.

Add: You're a studly 21 and have medical condition, stay home. You're 35 years diabetic young, stay home. If you can stay home and work, great! But goodness, the very vast majority need not stay home and forget about making a living. Why sequester the <60 and healthy?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 14, 2020, 01:11:23 PM
in order to get “herd immunity”
230 million Americans would eventually need to become become infected
and depending on the fatality rate, millions will die.

so THAT is the plan?
WTF?

even once the herd immunity threshold is reached, the infection keeps going. It takes time for the spread of the disease to crest because, for a while at least, many contagious people will still infect a small number of vulnerable people,
which means even more people will get sick and die.
It’s a phenomenon known as “overshoot.”

The disease sort of stops increasing at the point when you reach herd immunity, but there’s still lots and lots of people infected. It only slowly goes down, and on its way down, it infects another third of the population
So think of crossing the herd immunity threshold as determining the fate of the disease (it’s now bound to die out) rather than its status (it’s dead).

Since the corona virus is highly contagious the human toll of reaching herd immunity without a vaccine would be staggering high with millions dead.
And that’s assuming that once a person gets sick, they stay immune for a long time.
But at this point, we don’t know if that’s the case.

and here we are not even 3 months into this and when you start lookin around
whadda you start to see ALREADY?

I KNOW what I am already SEEING
can you imagine what it's gonna look like just a YEAR from now...
in some kinda "worst case scenario"
HOLY F%CK!!!

Generac, this is solid advice to ya'll




Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 14, 2020, 01:28:50 PM
An Insider poll conducted late last month found that 64% of Americans trusted Fauci, while just 19% trusted Trump to effectively handle the pandemic.


The poll isn't for who America trusts to run the country. Fauci doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell to win the Presidency. Trump has a very good chance in getting re-elected. As far as being an expert on infectious diseases, I trust Fauci more than Trump  but Trump as a bigger responsibility getting the economy open and preventing suicides and depression.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on May 14, 2020, 01:55:26 PM
BTW hydroxychloroquine has been very successful in combating covid. You should research the front line doctors using it. Do you not question why it isn't included in the WHO and CDC protocol for treating covid? Do you not question why the Chinese have been manufacturing remdesivir since March? You should

Can you please point me to these success stories about hydroxychloroquine?  What I've read is mixed, and in some cases, it's caused death in patients.  BTW, I mean studies, not anecdotal evidence.  From all I've read, hydroxychloroquine kills COVID-19 in lab studies, but lab studies are usually different from effects on the human body, so those results can't be relied on.  There was the first promising French study (which is the one Trump tweeted about), but that study has now been widely criticized for flaws.  It failed to meet peer review standards.  Forty two patients were in the study.  Sixteen of them were control patients, 26 received hydroxychloroquine.  Of those 26, six dropped out of the study, and four did not recover at all.  One of those four died.  Those four patients were excluded from the results of the study.

The American College of Physicians has recommended against using hydroxychloroquine, as it has known harms (some COVID patients died of heart attacks after hydroxychloroquine treatments), and at this time, no known benefits.

So, from what I've read, the jury is still out.  If you've got additional information, I'd like to "hear" it.

What I've read about remdesivir is that it speeds up recovery time by about 30%.  So, it's not a cure.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 14, 2020, 02:21:02 PM

Can you please point me to these success stories about hydroxychloroquine?

http://aapsonline.org/hcq-90-percent-chance/

http://drive.google.com/file/d/1w6p_HqRXCrW0_wYNK7m_zpQLbBVYcvVU/view

http://docs.google.com/document/d/1545C_dJWMIAgqeLEsfo2U8Kq5WprDuARXrJl6N1aDjY/edit
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on May 14, 2020, 03:38:10 PM
http://aapsonline.org/hcq-90-percent-chance/

http://drive.google.com/file/d/1w6p_HqRXCrW0_wYNK7m_zpQLbBVYcvVU/view

http://docs.google.com/document/d/1545C_dJWMIAgqeLEsfo2U8Kq5WprDuARXrJl6N1aDjY/edit

Let's see:  AAPS, a politically conservative non profit group opposed to the affordable care act.  Their conclusion is that about 90% of about 2000 patients treated with CQ and HCQ improved recovered.  However the data they reference are collection of cases, mostly in France, of patients being treated with HCQ, of which 91% or so recovered.  No actual comparative study, like 2000 patients treated with HCQ vs 2000 treated with aspirin.  Just that about 90% of people with Covid-19 and treated with HCQ recovered.  I thought that is around the same recovery rate, or below?  US covid 19 CFR is 6%... 94% recovery.

The google drive files is, just like the reference data for the AAPS article, speaks of various places that treated X amount of patients with HCQ and Y patients recovered, Z patients died.   Just data collection - no actual study.  At least HCQ doesn't kill more patients than they normally would have died from covid 19.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on May 14, 2020, 03:56:13 PM
The American College of Physicians has recommended against using hydroxychloroquine, as it has known harms (some COVID patients died of heart attacks after hydroxychloroquine treatments), and at this time, no known benefits.

Boe you should Google more. Hydroxychlorquine has been used for 60 years. There are a number of doctors on the front lines swearing about it's success in treating covid. More importantly so are the patients. After 60 years that's a pretty good study right there, dont'cha think?


Quote
So, from what I've read, the jury is still out.  If you've got additional information, I'd like to "hear" it.

The jury is not out. The jury was never sent in on hydroxychloroquine because it doesn't fit the narrative and perhaps it could shine some light on the virus itself. Highly contagious indeed but not near the monster virus that it is being projected. Maybe because it was suggested by Trump or maybe because someone else wants you living in fear?
 
Quote
What I've read about remdesivir is that it speeds up recovery time by about 30%.  So, it's not a cure.

I don't know if remdesivir is better, more helpful or less helpful. I would suggest you follow the money here. Remdesivir is $1000 a dose and hydroxychloroquine is $15 bucks total

There are many front line doctors on youtube telling their stories. There is also many of those disappearing. That is not a coincidence

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSnSmPGh1Ac (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSnSmPGh1Ac)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 14, 2020, 04:07:02 PM
Let's see:  AAPS, a politically conservative non profit group opposed to the affordable care act.  Their conclusion is that about 90% of about 2000 patients treated with CQ and HCQ improved recovered.  However the data they reference are collection of cases, mostly in France, of patients being treated with HCQ, of which 91% or so recovered.  No actual comparative study, like 2000 patients treated with HCQ vs 2000 treated with aspirin.  Just that about 90% of people with Covid-19 and treated with HCQ recovered.  I thought that is around the same recovery rate, or below?  US covid 19 CFR is 6%... 94% recovery.

The google drive files is, just like the reference data for the AAPS article, speaks of various places that treated X amount of patients with HCQ and Y patients recovered, Z patients died.   Just data collection - no actual study.  At least HCQ doesn't kill more patients than they normally would have died from covid 19.

http://aapsonline.org/about-aaps/
Quote from: about us
The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons – AAPS – is a non-partisan professional association of physicians in all types of practices and specialties across the country.

It's a non-partisan group of medical physicians, Steve. Where exactly did it say they are either a conservative or liberal, or any political affiliation in their website? Please point it out for me.

Are these doctors fake? Do they have an agenda, you think? If so, please provide proof.

As for their clinical citations provided in their findings, are you saying they are fabricated? I'm not sure what you're implying so please elaborate.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on May 14, 2020, 04:15:34 PM
Boe you should Google more. Hydroxychlorquine has been used for 60 years. There are a number of doctors on the front lines swearing about it's success in treating covid. More importantly so are the patients. After 60 years that's a pretty good study right there, dont'cha think?


I don't physically google.  I usually read articles which appear in my inbox daily, which is courtesy of google.  Those are the latest research studies and recommendations by academics, not news reports.


COVID-19 hasn't been around for 60 years (or at least, not in its present form), so no, I don't accept your assertion. 


Hydroxychlorquine is often fatal to diabetics or those with underlying health issues, such as heart disease.


I'm not saying it isn't a treatment, just that it isn't proven yet, and needs more study.  Scientists have recommended that.

Quote
The jury is not out. The jury was never sent in on hydroxychloroquine because it doesn't fit the narrative and perhaps it could shine some light on the virus itself.



But it is being studied in Europe and in China, where no one cares what Trump says about hydroxychloroquine, or any other potential treatment, for that matter.
 
Quote
I don't know if remdesivir is better, more helpful or less helpful. I would suggest you follow the money here. Remdesivir is $1000 a dose and hydroxychloroquine is $15 bucks total


Remdesivir is proven to shorten the length of the illness by, on average, 4 days.  The issue I would have with that is whether it lessens impacts. 


If remdesivir were an absolute cure, governments could legislate that it be made available short term at a lower price.

Quote
There are many front line doctors on youtube telling their stories. There is also many of those disappearing. That is not a coincidence


There are physicians on the front lines swearing that high doses of Vitamin C aid in COVID-19 symptoms, but that's been debunked in studies.  So, I don't think you can take what physicians state as the be all/end all in truth.  Perhaps those patients would have turned the corner without hydroxychloroquine.  Be clear, I'm not saying it isn't a treatment, just that there is no clinical proof yet.

This post was composed without the aid of google (other than the articles appearing in my "inbox" daily).
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 14, 2020, 04:19:46 PM
Let's see:  AAPS, a politically conservative non profit group opposed to the affordable care act.

Ahh, I now see where you got this information:

Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons

Do you happen to know who authored this write-up?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on May 14, 2020, 05:17:41 PM

I don't physically google.  I usually read articles which appear in my inbox daily, which is courtesy of google.  Those are the latest research studies and recommendations by academics, not news reports.

Then you are only getting what is fed you?


Quote
COVID-19 hasn't been around for 60 years (or at least, not in its present form), so no, I don't accept your assertion. 
Yes, in it's present form. Hydroxychloroquine was approved for medical use in the United States in 1955. Excuse me, 65 years

Quote
Hydroxychlorquine is often fatal to diabetics or those with underlying health issues, such as heart disease.
Funny, that's the same thing as covid. Did you make that up?

Quote
I'm not saying it isn't a treatment, just that it isn't proven yet, and needs more study.  Scientists have recommended that.

Yes many scientists with some sort of skin in the game are recommending more study, more study and more study. The virus is here now. How long should we wait and study a drug that has been used for a number of illnesses and studied ad nauseum for now 65 years
 


Quote
But it is being studied in Europe and in China, where no one cares what Trump says about hydroxychloroquine, or any other potential treatment, for that matter.

They care what he says here
 

Quote
Remdesivir is proven to shorten the length of the illness by, on average, 4 days.  The issue I would have with that is whether it lessens impacts. 


Caught in the earlier stages doctors are claiming HCQ use in many patients are making them symptom free in as little as 48 hours
Quote
If remdesivir were an absolute cure, governments could legislate that it be made available short term at a lower price.

If if's and but's were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas. I would wager a bet that remdesivir is not a cure but the vaccine is forthcoming from the same folks who bring us remdesivir

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: iloveukrayinkas on May 14, 2020, 08:32:59 PM
Hello guys, I advise everybody not to believe all that the mainstream news outlets put
out about this so called pandemic.
There are good informative channels on youtube like High Impact Vlogs, High Impact Flix,
Richie from Boston and also Mag Truth which EXPOSE the reality of the virus.
How this whole pandemic  has been manipulated to strip us of our rights as citizens
and how they have trampled the constitution with new laws that they just invented.

It breaks my heart how the state went against a poor 77 old barber who said he was going
to reopen his shop because they didn't honor the promise to reopen after april the 30th.
He said he would reopen against the governor's orders and that whatever be the case,
he already has a foot on the grave and the other on a banana.

Also they shut down pastor Rodney howard-brown in florida for opening his church service
and arrested him. He also has a strong following on youtube and has been streaming almost
everyday with his information about coronavirus.
That's a good channel you can listen to as well.

Cheers guys
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on May 14, 2020, 09:04:54 PM
Agree with your comments  Faux Pas.   Boe wants to wait for clinical trial results while people die.  Typical of some of the academic community.  Watched an interview of a female Texas doctor tonight that has been using hydroxychloroquine successfully on a number of patients in all stages of the disease.

Her pharmacy has refused to fill new prescriptions for the drug because the State Board of Pharmacies has decided that the off label use will not be allowed.   What a bunch of jerks.  Have seen a lot of first hand cases interviewed that claimed the drug ended the symptoms sometimes in a matter of hours.

I have a personal experience with a 'drug' that has not been recommended by US doctors yet has been used in other countries for hundreds of years.  About a year ago I was experiencing joint pain in many joints in my body.  My physician sent me to a specialist for diagnosis.  One of my fingers was in so much pain that it was preventing me from working efficiently.  He was an older guy and his exact words were "At your age all your joints are deteriorated.  You finger knuckle is 'shot'"

I asked him what options were available. I was willing to amputate if that was the only solution.  He proposed that he surgically bind the bones on both sides of the jont making it a stiff finger.  I was very lucky. I had a wellness appointment with a young gal that was a PA.  When she asked about my general health condition I told her about the pain in my finger and joints in general.

She whispered in my ear to try two 'drugs'.  One was Turmeric and the other is Glucosamine Chondroitin.  I have never believed in herbs and snake oil remedies but figured I had nothing to lose and it surely was a better choice than the bone surgery.  Within a week, I got total relief not only for the finger but the rest of the joints as well.  It's been about a year since I started taking the 'medicine' and have complete mobility in the problem finger with no pain.

You might imagine the contrast in my attitude change.  I was told that I am old and my joints are 'shot' and there is no general solution (other than dying I suppose) to a remedy that completely eliminated the symptoms.  If I had adopted Boe's opinion I should have waited for a number of clinical trials before trying these medications (maybe in my next lifetime).

It kind of funny how clinical trials fit into this story.  On the next visit to my physician I told him about the specialist/surgeons recommendation for the bone surgery and finding out that these two 'drugs' completely solved the issue.  He commented that he had read some recent studies that showed some promising results for the use of Chondroitin in joint issues.  I wonder how long it would have been before he would have recommended something that is over the counter and cheap?

Bottom line is that for generations/centuries people have discovered cures for things that were passed down to new generations without any clinical trials.  Anecdotal results have some value until there are formal studies (IMO).
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 14, 2020, 10:30:11 PM

Trump jumped off the Hydroxychloroquine band wagon for good reason. There's never been a safe and efficient treatment created for any disease caused by a coronavirus in history. They're not just going to magically pull one out of a hat of existing drugs designed to treat something else. They can throw every drug in the world at a coronavirus. None have been approved. It's easy to find a few doctors anywhere in the world to claim a drug they used worked as a treatment on COVID-19. It's hard to find a majority. There are 1.1 million doctors in America. If less than half(500,000)  American doctors say Hydroxychloroquine works even if the rest of the world's tens of millions of doctors remain silent, I'd be thrilled. But we don't have 500,000 American doctors that say Hydroxychloroquine works for sure. Many may use the drug in an emergency but most will not say for sure it works.

In the past, Hydroxychloroquine was used on patients infected with SARS. Since no treatment has ever been found for a disease caused by coronavirus, you guys can figure out the results. I don't think Hydroxychloroquine will work on SARS-COV-2 either.

Interesting video showing how fast a virus can spread from hands and someone rubbing snot off their nose.

http://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/video-black-light-experiment-shows-virus-spread-restaurant-setting-170533397.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 14, 2020, 11:22:45 PM
I note the 'usual suspects' are STILL 'googling' and finding hogwash on HCQ and then wondering why it is deleted, then suggesting "conspiracy" ....  :cluebat:

I have a close family family member that has been prescribed HCQ for an auto-immunity issue.  The drug HAS known efficacy in THAT field... and the possible side effects are well known.   

It TOTALLY pees me off to see some folks who REALLY need the medication and benefits go without well amateur hour 'experts' regurgitate unsubstantiated BOLLOX


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on May 14, 2020, 11:54:43 PM
Boe wants to wait for clinical trial results while people die. .  . Typical of some of the academic community. 


That's not what I posted.  What I posted was that, absent scientific evidence, we don't know that any of these treatments work, and to suggest they do is foolish, and potentially dangerous.


There are physicians who prescribe apricot seeds as a "natural" cure for cancer.  In the early 2000's, there was a whole industry built on such treatments at Mexican clinics, although I don't know if they're still running.  However, those treatments (laetrile is the active compound in the seeds) was clinically proven, in many trials, to have no effect on cancer cells.  But, there are still physicians, including in the US, who swear by this treatment. 


I had a client who spent tens of thousands of dollars for laetrile treatments.  He died of cancer.


The "academic community" is the community that has developed a vaccine for COVID-19 in several countries already.  If you want to put your health in the hands of physicians testing various treatments, great for you.  Just don't tout it as a cure without clinic evidence thereof.


This post was composed without the aid of google.







Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 15, 2020, 01:54:38 AM
When you look at any suggested medication, keep in mind that eating gummy bear will treat COVID-19 with 90% success.

The issue is that when tested, there is no indication that more patients survive than when eating gummy bear, in some cases even less patients survive.This is why you should be careful using any snake oil the internet tries to sell you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 15, 2020, 03:55:25 AM
What happens in Russia 'effects' the missus' , so I watch the news from various sources ..

This article from Meduza... the 'real Russia, today' is a collection of stories that IF they could be verified would suggest Russia has a bigger problem with death rates than can be admitted

It is in Russian, but worth translating  ...

http://meduza.io/feature/2020/05/14/prosto-zapreschayut-umirat-ot-koronavirusa (http://meduza.io/feature/2020/05/14/prosto-zapreschayut-umirat-ot-koronavirusa)

"They simply prohibit dying from coronavirus. In Russia they are fighting the COVID-19 epidemic by manipulating statistics" (http://"They simply prohibit dying from coronavirus. In Russia they are fighting the COVID-19 epidemic by manipulating statistics")

Deputy Prime Minister Tatyana Golikova proudly announced that the mortality rate from COVID-19 in Russia is 7.4 times lower than the world level. ( May 11th)

"..officials .. consciously hide deaths from coronavirus - to embellish statistics in the regions"


Lots of examples of staff who do not want to be named - as they'd lose their jobs... but meanwhile the Russian First Channel suggest Belarus' numbers are 'not correct' ...

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 15, 2020, 04:40:06 AM
What happens in Russia 'effects' the missus' , so I watch the news from various sources ..

This article from Meduza... the 'real Russia, today' is a collection of stories that IF they could be verified would suggest Russia has a bigger problem with death rates than can be admitted

It is in Russian, but worth translating  ...

http://meduza.io/feature/2020/05/14/prosto-zapreschayut-umirat-ot-koronavirusa (http://meduza.io/feature/2020/05/14/prosto-zapreschayut-umirat-ot-koronavirusa)

"They simply prohibit dying from coronavirus. In Russia they are fighting the COVID-19 epidemic by manipulating statistics" (http://"They simply prohibit dying from coronavirus. In Russia they are fighting the COVID-19 epidemic by manipulating statistics")

Deputy Prime Minister Tatyana Golikova proudly announced that the mortality rate from COVID-19 in Russia is 7.4 times lower than the world level. ( May 11th)

"..officials .. consciously hide deaths from coronavirus - to embellish statistics in the regions"


Lots of examples of staff who do not want to be named - as they'd lose their jobs... but meanwhile the Russian First Channel suggest Belarus' numbers are 'not correct' ...
A statistic that constantly changes is to be questioned.
But statistics of 400-500 daily for 2 months (Ukraine) or around 900 daily for over 1 month (Belarus) seems legit... :cluebat:
We are watching the stats from the beginning and do not trust some countries as they report a stable amount of cases with minimal change daily.
Those countries where statistics seem reliable show variation in daily reports as well as a clear curve.


As for death rates and even number of infections, yes it will be hard to obtain correct numbers in Russia due to the fact that many people do not go to a doctor or pharmacy until nearly critical. But I am sure that is true for every country, it depends on if the doctors care to test and if tests are available for those who died.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 15, 2020, 04:54:43 AM
And for those who believe claims about the virus develoing the same without quarantaine, here the statistic of Sweden (known as non-quarantaine example) and Denmark (having a strict quarantaine).
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on May 15, 2020, 05:43:49 AM

She whispered in my ear to try two 'drugs'.  One was Turmeric and the other is Glucosamine Chondroitin.  I have never believed in herbs and snake oil remedies but figured I had nothing to lose and it surely was a better choice than the bone surgery.  Within a week, I got total relief not only for the finger but the rest of the joints as well.  It's been about a year since I started taking the 'medicine' and have complete mobility in the problem finger with no pain.

It kind of funny how clinical trials fit into this story.  On the next visit to my physician I told him about the specialist/surgeons recommendation for the bone surgery and finding out that these two 'drugs' completely solved the issue.  He commented that he had read some recent studies that showed some promising results for the use of Chondroitin in joint issues.  I wonder how long it would have been before he would have recommended something that is over the counter and cheap?

Bottom line is that for generations/centuries people have discovered cures for things that were passed down to new generations without any clinical trials.  Anecdotal results have some value until there are formal studies (IMO).

Cal,
It's a good thing you finally found it. I think that's a herbalist treatment for gout too if I'm not mistaken. Don't be too hard on Boe, I think we've all been programmed to believe if something hasn't been gubmint stamped and approved (big pharma lobby) it can't possibly work or be a solution. My wife is herbalist for just about everything and she drove my interest in natural remedies. Fact is, there is a plethora of natural treatments that work and available all around us if you have the knowledge with herbs, plants, trees etc for the minor to very serious ailments most doctors just won't consider. But, I'm rambling.

Bottom line HCQ is working as a cocktail with some other drugs. Doesn't work in all cases? Apparently not, but it works in many and that is enough of a reason to make it available. The doctor in Texas you mention says for most of her patients they are symptom free in as little as 24-48 hours. I'm convinced the reason it isn't being easily made available is big pharma/cabal is pushing the high dollar treatment which IS what they do and have done to the American public for over 100 years
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on May 15, 2020, 05:51:16 AM
When you look at any suggested medication, keep in mind that eating gummy bear will treat COVID-19 with 90% success.

The issue is that when tested, there is no indication that more patients survive than when eating gummy bear, in some cases even less patients survive.This is why you should be careful using any snake oil the internet tries to sell you.

Gummy bears could be used in a covid or most any study and be a "proven" successful  treatment. For covid a study of gummy bears it would have a 98% success rate because, that is the recover rate now, right? Gummy bears however won't stop the symptoms or the spread. When we discover something that does, there should be no restraints for those who choose to use it IMO
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 15, 2020, 06:33:47 AM
HCQ for an auto-immunity issue.  The drug HAS known efficacy in THAT field... and the possible side effects are well known...

COVID-19 is an issue about hyper response of the immune sysytem, thus the interest in HCQ. 

There is ample anecdotal evidence from HCQ's use under doctors' supervision on COVID-19 patients to suggest it is a possible therapy.  Its use seems to produce better results when used early in the infection and combined with other medications.  We await the results of clinical trials. 


Quote
....  some folks who REALLY need the medication and benefits go without 


I have heard news of some lupus  cases not being able to obtain medication.  That should not happen.  I assert that has happened more from mismanagement than hype about being a possible therapy for 'rona.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 15, 2020, 07:36:27 AM

 Hydroxychloroquine alone or mixed with other drugs may have helped some people but it also can hurt possibly more people than it helps. When somebody is on the edge of living and dying, the side effects of drugs can push them to die.

Hydroxychloroquine and it's relatives are used to treat people with Lupus. People with lupus have immune systems that attack their healthy living tissue. One problem with people who have COVID-19 is that their immune system goes into overdrive and attack not only the virus but healthy living tissue. Hydroxychloroquine would help prevent that so in other words, it's not doing much if anything against the virus but it's suppressing the immune system. So if a doctor gave  Hydroxychloroquine to a patient who's immune system went into overdrive against COVID-19 they may find the patient benefits but if a doctor gives  Hydroxychloroquine to a person who's immune system is adequately fighting COVID-19, the doctor may help COVID-19 win. People who can battle COVID-19 in their homes are not going to ever get prescribed  Hydroxychloroquine because it would probably hurt you more than help like preliminary studies have shown. I believe Hydroxychloroquine may help a few people under certain circumstances but will hurt more people than it helps.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 15, 2020, 07:49:19 AM
Hydroxychloroquine alone or mixed with other drugs may have helped some people but it also can hurt possibly more people than it helps. When somebody is on the edge of living and dying, the side effects of drugs can push them to die.

Hydroxychloroquine and it's relatives are used to treat people with Lupus. People with lupus have immune systems that attack their healthy living tissue. One problem with people who have COVID-19 is that their immune system goes into overdrive and attack not only the virus but healthy living tissue. Hydroxychloroquine would help prevent that so in other words, it's not doing much if anything against the virus but it's suppressing the immune system. So if a doctor gave  Hydroxychloroquine to a patient who's immune system went into overdrive against COVID-19 they may find the patient benefits but if a doctor gives  Hydroxychloroquine to a person who's immune system is adequately fighting COVID-19, the doctor may help COVID-19 win. People who can battle COVID-19 in their homes are not going to ever get prescribed  Hydroxychloroquine because it would probably hurt you more than help like preliminary studies have shown. I believe Hydroxychloroquine may help a few people under certain circumstances but will hurt more people than it helps.

BillyB-

If they're all dying anyway, why not save a few or even one?

If you get infected with the virus, are you telling me if HCQ is available that could possibly help you, and with people around you were saved and are swearing by the drug; are you saying you're not going to take it because of what you read in the internet?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 15, 2020, 08:11:25 AM
If you get infected with the virus, are you telling me if HCQ is available that could possibly help you, and with people around you were saved and are swearing by the drug; are you saying you're not going to take it because of what you read in the internet?


Knowing what I know and if I wasn't in a coma and didn't have a tube entering my throat at the neck and I could still talk, I would ask the doctor if I'm dying because of COVID-19 or are my antibodies killing my living tissue. If he/she can't answer the question, I probably wouldn't recommend anything. I might tell the doctor to do what he/she thinks best knowing doctors do make mistakes. Last month HCQ was the big thing. This month it's remdesivir. Just because government or a journalist is promoting a doctor or scientist saying HCQ is great and man made global warming is real, I'm not going to jump on the band wagon on everything I read.

I understand people want hope. The people in charge need to deliver hope even if there isn't something real to deliver. If this crisis lasts 5+ years, you will see positive news every month they found a possible new treatment and they are close to a vaccine to give people hope. When we took our first steps, we didn't walk perfect. The first ever treatment and vaccine for a coronavirus isn't going to be perfect. When and IF a vaccine is found, I hope it doesn't F us up 10 years down the road. Rushing things increases risks
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 15, 2020, 08:15:59 AM
...She whispered in my ear to try two 'drugs'.  One was Turmeric and the other is Glucosamine Chondroitin.

Oh man, Glucosamine is amazing! All those years of playing basketball, martial arts, surfing and skiing - gotta tell you I'm beginning to acknowledge I actually have 'joints', LOL. It's like WD-40 on my rusty joints these days.

I'll vouch for Turmeric, too.

Costco sells Glucosamine in those large plastic bottles. very cheap too. You'll never have a doctor prescribing you to take glucosamine for joint pains.

As for HCQ and the 'clinical trial' hoopla. Sheeesh! The virus' assault has only been around a month and half!!! If it had been administered to someone, ONE, and that person believes the drug saved him/her - does that make that person's experience irrelevant?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQBlb5_7JQI
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 15, 2020, 08:20:25 AM
Knowing what I know and if I wasn't in a coma and didn't have a tube entering my throat at the neck and I could still talk, I would ask the doctor if I'm dying because of COVID-19 or are my antibodies killing my living tissue. If he/she can't answer the question, I probably wouldn't recommend anything. I might tell the doctor to do what he/she thinks best knowing doctors do make mistakes. Last month HCQ was the big thing. This month it's remdesivir. Just because government or a journalist is promoting a doctor or scientist saying HCQ is great and man made global warming is real, I'm not going to jump on the band wagon on everything I read.

It was a yes or no question, BillyB. Leaving it up to the doctor is not really standing up to your conviction. Forget yourself...if it was someone very dear to you that's in that situation (let's hope this never happens)...would you not try and administer the drug in case it actually works?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 15, 2020, 08:32:02 AM
It was a yes or no question, BillyB. Leaving it up to the doctor is not really standing up to your conviction. Forget yourself...if it was someone very dear to you that's in that situation (let's hope this never happens)...would you not try and administer the drug in case it actually works?

With what I know about HCQ, no I would not recommend it as a last resort on a person I love unless I know whether they are dying from COVID-19 or their antibodies. It's not a simple yes or no answer. There are factors involved and my answer depends on what a doctor tells me and if he/she sounds competent. It's best we get educated on these drugs instead of simply believing everything we read so we can make the best decisions for the people we love.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 15, 2020, 08:35:36 AM
I believe Hydroxychloroquine may help a few people under certain circumstances but will hurt more people than it helps.

You have formed an opinion before the clinical trials are completed and reported. 

You may be correct about the "will hurt more people than it helps," or you could be wrong.   Thus, you are thinking the same as Trump, just on the opposite side of the debate. 

And I did read your other responses with GQ.  BTW, waiting late to administer HCQ has not been as effective as using it early in the infection.     

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on May 15, 2020, 08:51:14 AM
Since this is the place for spreading stories from the internet( we all know they are true)!!

Anybody hear of a new antibody cocktail called Covi- Shield?

Anyone for a cocktail????
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 15, 2020, 09:07:29 AM
A statistic that constantly changes is to be questioned.
But statistics of ... 900 daily for over 1 month (Belarus) seems legit... :cluebat:

BY's stats 'legit'...?.... Even Russia's Pervy Kanal questioned them and the journos were kicked out of BY  :ROFL:
 
The UK's figures 'suggest' 36k dead, but in reality - based on the weekly death rate comparison and death certificates relating to non hospital / care-home deaths, it seems that figure is 45-50k !

We are watching the stats from the beginning and do not trust some countries as they report a stable amount of cases with minimal change daily.
Those countries where statistics seem reliable show variation in daily reports as well as a clear curve.

RF has a long tradition of under reporting bad news and stats .. ( under normal circumstances ) if you are dying - you are sent home to die .. the hospital mortality rate improves ( not alone to RU)

We have no waying if these 'off the record' reports are true, but there are regions with hot spots now making news on the jungle drums ...

As for death rates and even number of infections, yes it will be hard to obtain correct numbers in Russia due to the fact that many people do not go to a doctor or pharmacy until nearly critical. But I am sure that is true for every country, it depends on if the doctors care to test and if tests are available for those who died.

I most CERTAINLY disagree with the pharmacy visits ... Russians are mostly experts on medication and consult the pharmacist at the earliest opportunity..  IF you read the CRAP I got from friends asking if the Europeans had found certain 'remedies' to work, you'd have been scared .. ((

Wifey ? Her city has seen official death from COVID-19 at TWO - but then, the official records show c.400k for greater Sochi's population when the supermarkets know it's above 700k ... She isn't 'bovvered'... I WISH she was ..

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 15, 2020, 09:09:31 AM
Since this is the place for spreading stories from the internet( we all know they are true)!!

Anybody hear of a new antibody cocktail called Covi- Shield?

Anyone for a cocktail????

I'm not a drinker, but as long as there's Tequila in the mix, would be happy for a toast or two!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 15, 2020, 09:14:31 AM
Jesus tap-dancing Christ on a cracker. 
Weeks after it became painfully obvious that “15 cases that will soon be zero” was proven to be the stupidest thing Trump’s EVER said.
Yeah, I know, we still had mainlining bleach to go, but still..
How fooking stupid are people to approve of the Orange She-It Stain?
and then you realize
how stupid the average person is and then further realize that half the population is even stupider than this.

just got off the streamcast with Nouriel Roubini
his talk was about the economy over the next 5 years
worse, much worse than the great depresshun
cuz we get that first, THEN followed by Weimar inflation in about 5 more yrs
total DESTRUCTION of the us economy
total
CHINA WINS!
usa global anything will be completely OVER with by then
the dollar TOTALLY worthless
and the usa looks like an episode from a Walking Dead prequel
your country is not just going to be "broken" like it is NOW
fook NO!
it's going to be shattered...
and you're ALL going to vote for him again!!!
priceless!

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 15, 2020, 09:47:01 AM
You have formed an opinion before the clinical trials are completed and reported. 

You may be correct about the "will hurt more people than it helps," or you could be wrong. 


HCQ side effects are already known after years of vigorous clinical trials. This can be Googled. Some side effects include seizure, slow heart rate, weak pulse, pounding heartbeats, sudden dizziness, fainting, shortness of breath, or slow breathing (breathing may stop). This can spell disaster for a patient who's heart and lungs are already overworked fighting COVID-19. I will never out of desperation grab a doctor by the collar and yell at him/her to give HCQ as a last resort to help a loved one just because I read a couple of people in the news/internet recommending it. If I read 100,000 out of 1.1 million American doctors recommend it, I'll start believing we're on to something.

  Thus, you are thinking the same as Trump, just on the opposite side of the debate. 
 

Trump went silent on HCQ.  I think he's on my side now. Doctors around the world are pretty much silent on HCQ too. This month's snake oil recommendation is remdesivir to get people's hope up.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on May 15, 2020, 09:53:20 AM
Hydroxychloroquine alone or mixed with other drugs may have helped some people but it also can hurt possibly more people than it helps. When somebody is on the edge of living and dying, the side effects of drugs can push them to die.

Hydroxychloroquine and it's relatives are used to treat people with Lupus. People with lupus have immune systems that attack their healthy living tissue. One problem with people who have COVID-19 is that their immune system goes into overdrive and attack not only the virus but healthy living tissue. Hydroxychloroquine would help prevent that so in other words, it's not doing much if anything against the virus but it's suppressing the immune system. So if a doctor gave  Hydroxychloroquine to a patient who's immune system went into overdrive against COVID-19 they may find the patient benefits but if a doctor gives  Hydroxychloroquine to a person who's immune system is adequately fighting COVID-19, the doctor may help COVID-19 win. People who can battle COVID-19 in their homes are not going to ever get prescribed  Hydroxychloroquine because it would probably hurt you more than help like preliminary studies have shown. I believe Hydroxychloroquine may help a few people under certain circumstances but will hurt more people than it helps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIm4vHP62CQ&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0C5N1Ge0kENQA9nYA9n5SSlEDiZ8FnmgfhC2iEAVxIVo2GUGIS20_stS4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIm4vHP62CQ&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0C5N1Ge0kENQA9nYA9n5SSlEDiZ8FnmgfhC2iEAVxIVo2GUGIS20_stS4)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 15, 2020, 10:05:42 AM
FP-

That report was from the same source site I posted upthread. Steve said AAPS is a conservative group so they possibly have a political agenda to advance whatever Republican initiative is being pushed. In this case, HCQ.

Steve may be right, but then the Wikipedia page he used demonizing AAPS tailed MSNBC's Rachel Maddow. The other source that demonized AAPS was The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/03/impeachment-trump/580468/). The same media that endorsed Hillary Clinton last election despite knowing her campaign was the one that financed the dossier that started the whole Russian collusion hoax.

Where we go from here based on these - who knows or care anymore....
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on May 15, 2020, 10:15:04 AM
FP-

That report was from the same source site I posted upthread. Steve said AAPS is a conservative group so they possibly have a political agenda to advance whatever Republican initiative is being pushed. In this case, HCQ.

Steve may be right, but then the Wikipedia page he used demonizing AAPS tailed MSNBC's Rachel Maddow. The other source that demonized AAPS was The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/03/impeachment-trump/580468/). The same media that endorsed Hillary Clinton last election despite knowing her campaign was the one that financed the dossier that started the whole Russian collusion hoax.

Where we go from here based on these - who knows or care anymore....

Yeah I know, sad but true. Unfortunately you can't show anything to someone who will not see. Further unfortunately there is a segment of population worldwide whose information can only be discerned through partisan eyes and ears.

On another note, here's a good read. Tell me what you think;

http://thefederalist.com/2020/05/13/why-science-is-a-false-god-that-will-sorely-disappoint-you/?fbclid=IwAR2SQ49G4fqnQA3IQH6bSaO6qhbiKeVlbuHs6Ny9kqN-d-pRN3TLlxX5V3A#.XrvaBmwvIrg.facebook (http://thefederalist.com/2020/05/13/why-science-is-a-false-god-that-will-sorely-disappoint-you/?fbclid=IwAR2SQ49G4fqnQA3IQH6bSaO6qhbiKeVlbuHs6Ny9kqN-d-pRN3TLlxX5V3A#.XrvaBmwvIrg.facebook)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 15, 2020, 10:27:28 AM
just got off the streamcast with Nouriel Roubini
his talk was about the economy over the next 5 years
worse, much worse than the great depresshun

Roubini has been pushing this scenario for some time. 

The only way we will go into a depression is if the nation follows the advice of  people like the LA Mayor.  He and many blue state governors  and Pelosi (maybe Biden too) want their citizens to stay home but have the government pay the massive number of unemployed resulting from such a policy.  And the media supports them with fear mongering, prompting people such as you to hide under their bed (sorry, in your case a tree house). 

Do you think it is fair that the red state people return to work and pay taxes to people in blue states who don't want to work?   Or those people in blue states who work today in essential jobs, making sure their unemployed neighbors have food, electricity, etc.?    This will be a campaign issue.   


Quote
your country is not just going to be "broken" like it is NOW
fook NO!
it's going to be shattered...

"your country?"  So your emigration to Russia is now official?   Why would you choose Russia if China is going to win?   


Quote
and you're ALL going to vote for him again!!!
priceless!

As a non-American, it is no longer your business. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 15, 2020, 10:28:52 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIm4vHP62CQ&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0C5N1Ge0kENQA9nYA9n5SSlEDiZ8FnmgfhC2iEAVxIVo2GUGIS20_stS4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIm4vHP62CQ&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0C5N1Ge0kENQA9nYA9n5SSlEDiZ8FnmgfhC2iEAVxIVo2GUGIS20_stS4)

The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons wrote the statement April 20 nearly a month ago saying HCQ "appears" to work. That's old news and by using the word "appears" means they have doubts about HCQ.

Trump gave a live speech about vaccines that ended a few minutes ago. He thinks we'll have one before the years end but he said people shouldn't place all their hope in a vaccine and it's possible the virus may just go away as some viruses did in history.

Treatments were talked about also and HCQ was not mentioned. Trump talked about remdesivir a few times. That is the frontrunner. Trump has stopped talking about HCQ. He's past that and we should be too. Next!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: tfcrew on May 15, 2020, 10:33:13 AM
Anyone for a cocktail????
(http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Smileys/DarkB/cheesy.gif) Should we touch that one?Is there a link for that Corona Cocktail?
 
 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 15, 2020, 10:40:40 AM
Yeah I know, sad but true. Unfortunately you can't show anything to someone who will not see. Further unfortunately there is a segment of population worldwide whose information can only be discerned through partisan eyes and ears.

On another note, here's a good read. Tell me what you think;

http://thefederalist.com/2020/05/13/why-science-is-a-false-god-that-will-sorely-disappoint-you/?fbclid=IwAR2SQ49G4fqnQA3IQH6bSaO6qhbiKeVlbuHs6Ny9kqN-d-pRN3TLlxX5V3A#.XrvaBmwvIrg.facebook (http://thefederalist.com/2020/05/13/why-science-is-a-false-god-that-will-sorely-disappoint-you/?fbclid=IwAR2SQ49G4fqnQA3IQH6bSaO6qhbiKeVlbuHs6Ny9kqN-d-pRN3TLlxX5V3A#.XrvaBmwvIrg.facebook)

That's a good read. Interesting viewpoint. Science after all is an open-ended attempt to explain our elemental world and how we relate to it within our environment. It is not, or should not, be absolute.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on May 15, 2020, 11:09:51 AM
(http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Smileys/DarkB/cheesy.gif) Should we touch that one?Is there a link for that Corona Cocktail?

Sure but I rather look at studies made by physicians that explain exactly the processes a....b...c...
I will look for somewhere there are actual studies for this. FDA approval and clinical studies needed

Spreading stories is what BillyB is adapt at..... oh well!!

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/california-biopharmaceutical-company-claims-coronavirus-antibody-breakthrough/ar-BB147Tvt?ocid=spartanntp


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 15, 2020, 11:23:05 AM
Dang LAman! I thought it was a real 'cocktail'. But it turns out to only be a 100% effective COVID antibody!

How disappointing!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on May 15, 2020, 12:56:29 PM
Dang LAman! I thought it was a real 'cocktail'. But it turns out to only be a 100% effective COVID antibody!

How disappointing!

Well GQB, put some Tequila in that cocktail and let me know how you feel!!! You may become a superhero!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 16, 2020, 01:53:42 AM
Well GQB, put some Tequila in that cocktail and let me know how you feel!!! You may become a superhero!!
No way with Tequila. Only vodka can create superheroes.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on May 16, 2020, 03:01:22 AM
Shadow, ML and others that provided support to me for my cataract surgery, I want to thank you.  Your comments helped put me at ease for the surgery.  It had created a lot of anxiety in me beforehand.  Even though I was a little tense going into the procedure, as you guys described to me it would be a piece of cake.

For those that have not had the procedure done yet, I feel it is like a miracle.  My distant vision in my right eye seems to be perfect at distant vision and was told that the near vision in that eye will improve over time although will still need reading glasses.  Much like a friend told me about his surgery, one of the surprises was that the color of dark blues and aquas turned into bright blues in that eye.  In addition whites that looked more beige turned into very bright white .  I will probably need to turn down the brightness of my monitors and TV.  The colors look a little over saturated now.

BTW, i got the monocular lenses rather than the additional $3K per lens for the multi-focus option but because I am cheap but because my friend in Santa Barbara said if he had to do it over again he might go for the monofucus lenses because of artifacts he  has with the multi-focal lenses.  It appears that I might get away with discarding the tri-focal lenses and end up with the upper half of the lens clear and only have the bottom of the lens corrected for reading.  What a dramatic change in quality of life for a simple operation.

Thanks again for the support.  Expect to have surgery on the other eye ASAP.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 16, 2020, 03:40:02 AM
You are very welcome. Be sure to keep to the advise of not dong too much that causes pressure on the eye for the first six months, and do regular checkups. You will be good for the next 25 to 30 years.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 16, 2020, 05:39:37 AM
Dave Portnoy 2024!! Even Elon Musk was impressed. Will the real Americans please stand up!!!

http://youtu.be/iaccTxk7NQs[/quote]
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on May 16, 2020, 05:59:55 AM
Dave Portnoy 2024!! Even Elon Musk was impressed. Will the real Americans please stand up!!!

http://youtu.be/iaccTxk7NQs
:applause:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 16, 2020, 06:45:29 AM
Deep Thoughts With Krimster

Feb. 15: 15 cases
May 15: 1,442,824 cases

There’s No Coronavirus Plan.
There’s Just Donald and Jared trying to decide whether leeches, crystals, bleach, or hydroxychloroquine work best on COVID-19 (disclaimer: don't use ANY of these)

go ahead and try running for office on a platform of taking away people’s health care, many of whom will be "essential workers". Or tolerating the condition that leaves nearly 28 million Americans with no health care at all. Yep, that’s the current Republican policy, led by Rump’s attempt to gut Obamacare through the courts. Good luck with that in November when the unemployment rate is over 20% and even MORE lose their health care while the worst pandemic in the last century starts into its biggest peak

ya see folks...
a tiny little virus is once again altering the course of history.
it has demonstrated the inferiority of human inventions in the destruction of human life.
and you are ALL, and I MEAN EVERYONE in DENIAL about what's "coming down the road" head on straight at YOU!

If we are not prepared to fight ignorance and STUPIDITY as actively and as thoughtfully as we fight any other enemy, then it will defeat us

fer instance,
bubonic plague has struck several times in the past 2,000 years, killing gazillions of people and altering the course of history.

The medieval pandemic began in 1331 in China. it killed half the population of China. From there, the plague moved along trade routes from Crimea to Europe, North Africa and the Middle East. In the years between 1347 and 1351, it killed at least a third of the European population. Half of the population of Siena, Italy, died.

Corona is an echo of this

In 1633, a smallpox epidemic among Native Americans “disrupted all the native communities in the northeast and certainly facilitated English settlement in Massachusetts,”

now it’s YOUR turn, and China will be facilitated by the plague instead of European colonizers

all righty now, thanks for listening

PS

because Russians are gonna "Drug Test" me in August
i have been going drug free since yesterday
it feels weird...



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on May 16, 2020, 07:23:07 AM
Shadow, ML and others that provided support to me for my cataract surgery, I want to thank you.  Your comments helped put me at ease for the surgery.  It had created a lot of anxiety in me beforehand.  Even though I was a little tense going into the procedure, as you guys described to me it would be a piece of cake.

We probably should have a separate thread for eye issues.
Good that your first eye job went OK Doug.
As a coincidence, I was just in yesterday for follow up with Retina specialist.
Anyone who is extremely near sighted, as I was, has an elongated eyeball.
Such an eyeball carries with it the high possibility of retina tearing and even detachment.
The good news was that my retinas looked the same as last year.
And, after the cataract surgery, my distance vision remains 20/20 in both eyes, although really had to concentrate to get that last line for left eye.

As eye joke:

Optometrist asked Czech man if he could read the line . . . .   Z H Y G W F B V
The Czech man said sure, I even know that guy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on May 16, 2020, 07:32:48 AM
Dave Portnoy 2024!! Even Elon Musk was impressed. Will the real Americans please stand up!!!

http://youtu.be/iaccTxk7NQs
GQB.....why don't you invite this guy to this forum!!! He's perfect material, he'll fit right in...…..
wants nothing to do with relationships or women and wants to bitch and moan about everything!!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 16, 2020, 08:01:17 AM
GQB.....why don't you invite this guy to this forum!!! He's perfect material, he'll fit right in...…..
wants nothing to do with relationships or women and wants to bitch and moan about everything!!!

Dave isn’t qualified. He’s a healthy below 50 dude with no dating problems. Unlike us old farts with, or have, underlying conditions stuck trying to talk about dating and relationships with women from poor countries at least 20 years our junior.

:devil:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 16, 2020, 08:11:52 AM

If we are not prepared to fight ignorance and STUPIDITY as actively and as thoughtfully as we fight any other enemy, then it will defeat us
I guess we are lost....
because Russians are gonna "Drug Test" me in August
i have been going drug free since yesterday
it feels weird...
You are getting more coherent already. Scary stuff..... ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on May 16, 2020, 10:23:58 AM

Dave isn’t qualified. 



Solely on his bitching and moaning he is. No one else here made a video to show it!!

Two kinds of people in this world:

1. the complainers

2. the people that do something about

You know which one the lazy people pick???? ))))
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 16, 2020, 11:13:27 AM
Solely on his bitching and moaning he is. No one else here made a video to show it!!

Two kinds of people in this world:

1. the complainers

2. the people that do something about

You know which one the lazy people pick???? ))))
Option 2. Complaining costs way too much time and trouble..
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on May 16, 2020, 11:30:59 AM
Dave Portnoy 2024!! Even Elon Musk was impressed. Will the real Americans please stand up!!!

http://youtu.be/iaccTxk7NQs
The guy is totally right, we have been had. My business might destroyed when all is said and done, as many of my customers  mull bankruptcy. At my age, I don't want to rebuild. Work twice as hard for half the money? F that,  It would take years to get it to 2019 revenue levels, if ever. I am considering throwing in the towel, and moving to Laos. My GF found a beautiful house with pool for sale, only $170k. Its her dream house
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 16, 2020, 11:42:19 AM
Who doesn't get the guys frustration ?

What he chooses to forget is his wishing to exercise a perceived 'right' to take a risk puts others at risk, if forced to work.

Why DO folks from t'other side of the pond confuse Switzerland and Sweden ?

"Sweden is 450k square kilometres in size, while Switzerland is only 41k. ... Sweden has a long coastline along the Baltic Sea and the Kattegat, while Switzerland is landlocked. Both countries have mountains, but the Swiss Alps are newer and higher than the Scandinavian Mountains in Sweden, and make up more of the country."

Hope that helps Dave and anyone else who was confused ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 16, 2020, 11:48:22 AM
My business might destroyed when all is said and done, as many of my customers  mull bankruptcy.


Nancy Pelosi is pushing through a 3 trillion dollar coronavirus aid package. If you're into green energy or performing abortions, I'm sure there's money in it for you.

If the government tells businesses to stay shut, some longer than others, they need to wave fees to stay in business and roll back taxes.


I am considering throwing in the towel, and moving to Laos.


Laos reports zero coronavirus deaths although they are next to China. I'm not too sure it's as safe as the government says it is over there.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 16, 2020, 12:02:55 PM

Laos reports zero coronavirus deaths although they are next to China. I'm not too sure it's as safe as the government says it is over there.

BillyB,

I think those who have BEEN to  Laos  ( and Thailand / Cambodia ) would know the risks, and get a feel for the real numbers than you ...  You doubted Vietnam's numbers - but I have seen  how these nations jumped on testing and tracking down infections...

In Laos most cases came from.. Bangkok

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Laos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Laos)

SC went to Cambodia in v.late Feb 2020 - ( re-set Thai Visa run ) they were paranoid about sanitising of hands and taking temps, too


I err on the side of believing the low / non existent death figures.





Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 16, 2020, 12:20:50 PM
Trump's evidence against China is strong so China is making at least one confession.

China acknowledged that it instructed unauthorized laboratories to destroy samples of the novel coronavirus — but for "biosafety reasons."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-confirms-us-accusations-that-it-destroyed-early-samples-of-the-novel-coronavirus-but-says-it-was-done-for-biosafety-reasons/ar-BB14aAT8?ocid=spartanntp


I think those who have BEEN to  Laos  ( and Thailand / Cambodia ) would know the risks, and get a feel for the real numbers than you


Canada is a few hours from me. I'll go there and get a FEEL for the real numbers of coronavirus infections and deaths and come back here and report as an expert on all things Canadian.  :cluebat:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 16, 2020, 12:43:01 PM
Back to the title of this thread, things are going pretty darned good.

-Moved from full lockdown at the beginning of the month restricted to your own town to being able to move freely within the region for necessities, and many more businesses opening back up.

-R0 for almost all regions well below 1 and maintaining continued downward trend despite 2 weeks of slowly opening up.
Abruzzo: 0.45
Basilicata 0.27
Calabria 0.34
Campania 0.58
Emilia-Romagna 0.6
Friuli-Venezia Giulia 0.86
Lazio 0.74
Liguria 0.48
Lombardia 0.62
Marche 0.55
Molise 0.34
Piemonte 0.58
Bolzano 0.56
Trento 0.75
Puglia 0.72
Sardegna 0.24
Sicilia 0.54
Toscana 0.39
Umbria 1.23
Valle d'Aosta 0.38
Veneto 0.41

-New infections continuing to decline, showing a bit of hesitation at the end, with only 875 new cases from 40,000 tests in the last 24 hours.  To put this into perspective, less new cases than Florida had yesterday, with Italy having 3 times the population of FL.

A couple of regions will have to wait until their numbers decline further.

-Next up on Monday 18th, almost all businesses opened back up and I can finally get a haircut by appointment. Visiting friends is ok with masks etc  Might even go to our fav restaurant soon that has outside seating.

-Within the next 10 days or so I will get tested for antibodies, and if positive a covid test to make sure I don't have an active infection.

-In early June Italy will likely allow visitors from other EU countries without quarantine requirements along with being able to travel freely to other regions.  Guess temperatures will be taken etc and EU folks can enjoy summer down here with few restrictions and safety.

Most folks, stores etc do seem to be following guidelines, wearing masks, no one I heard of has died of starvation, no big riots or unrest.  Folks starting to be optimistic after having been stuck at home for a couple of months.  Beaches will be a bit tricky, by appointment only except for exercising and a quick dip. No beach parties.

Things are looking up, hoping numbers stay down and that covid risks remain very low.

Not tickled pink, but pleased with the progress and impressed how the normally unruly Italians really made the effort to contain this beast, and are winning.

More folks back working again after being laid off (firing people due to the crisis was banned with positions guaranteed upon return if the business survives) Work is being spread between workers, one week on one week off.  Hopefully, most will be back working this summer.

(http://i.postimg.cc/9FHz0Syc/Screen-Shot-2020-05-16-at-21-21-17.png)

Not trying to 'rub your nose in it' but instead showing that beating the virus down can be done, allowing the economy to start coming back without causing unnecessary deaths doing so.





Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 16, 2020, 12:44:28 PM
SC was in Thailand was two months and that whole region had fewer cases and deaths, proportionally ..despite Chinese Tourists for their new year and proximity to China

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on May 16, 2020, 12:45:21 PM
The guy is totally right, we have been had. My business might destroyed when all is said and done, as many of my customers  mull bankruptcy. At my age, I don't want to rebuild. Work twice as hard for half the money? F that,  It would take years to get it to 2019 revenue levels, if ever. I am considering throwing in the towel, and moving to Laos. My GF found a beautiful house with pool for sale, only $170k. Its her dream house


Dude, there's people dying. And you're bitching about your monetary losses???

You should be thankful to have your health!!! I bet if you were laid up in bed hooked up to a ventilator gasping for oxygen you wouldn't be worried about your losses!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 16, 2020, 01:09:20 PM


Not trying to 'rub your nose in it' but instead showing that beating the virus down can be done, allowing the economy to start coming back without causing unnecessary deaths doing so.
.

Good to hear.

My friend in Rome's father died in the UK 3 weeks ago and had to watch her father's funeral service via a web cam, last week (( ..   

She could now have come to the UK, but 'we' might START quarantining folks - other from France and Ireland ?

Ireland says it will quarantine anyone coming from 'off island' - but folks will simply arrive via Belfast ...  :popcorn:

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on May 16, 2020, 01:26:57 PM
Times are really tough for business as these two will attest:

http://video.autizmo.xyz/videos/watch/402f5ef0-0679-4785-a512-2094fa86ea40
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on May 16, 2020, 02:36:52 PM
Don't be too hard on Boe, I think we've all been programmed to believe if something hasn't been gubmint stamped and approved (big pharma lobby) it can't possibly work or be a solution. My wife is herbalist for just about everything

Government has zero to do with my belief.  I am looking for independent blind studies, which typically, are conducted outside government. 

Here's a study on hydroxychloroquine, which found that patients taking it had worse outcomes than those that did not -

http://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v1.full.pdf (http://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v1.full.pdf)

Conclusive evidence?  Absolutely not, as the sample is too small.  However, more compelling than anecdotal tales.

My grandmother, God rest her soul, was an herbalist before your wife was born.  She also used wax pouring, which is a medical folk ritual.  My grandmother used to concoct a brew that cured the common cold.  I remember taking it as a child.  It had an awful taste, but I took it willingly, as the day after I drank that bitter brew, my cold had disappeared.  I asked her the name of it - I knew the herb, it used to grow alongside our riverbank, but it doesn't anymore.  I did find it in Chernihiv oblast, growing beside the river, but that's the only place I've seen it since the late 1980's, and in 1990. 

My grandmother used birch bark to make aspirin.  She used fennel seeds for digestive issues, honey for a variety of ailments, and other herbs for cuts, arthritis, etc.  So, my mother grew up with these remedies, as did I.  I know these work, and those herbs often form the basis of drugs for modern medicines.  Allicin from garlic, for example, is the most effective killer of "superbugs" known.

The issue I have is suggesting something is a "cure" when it has not been proven, and that's where we are with hydroxychloroquine.  You might as well harvest the insides of apricots and give that to patients.

Incidentally, there's a report that a US team of researchers (outside government) has discovered something that stops the virus from attaching to cells within the body.  If that's accurate, it's a game changer.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 16, 2020, 03:11:58 PM
Solely on his bitching and moaning he is. No one else here made a video to show it!!

Two kinds of people in this world:

1. the complainers
2. the people that do something about

You know which one the lazy people pick???? ))))

You mean someone doing exactly what you’re doing?

Seriously though, you wanna start discussion between us horny old farts about dating nubiles and sexing them up, well you know, no one is stopping you from starting a thread or two. This way you can extricate yourself from 1 and graduate to 2.

How’s that for ingenuity?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on May 16, 2020, 04:20:48 PM
Government has zero to do with my belief.  I am looking for independent blind studies, which typically, are conducted outside government.

Here's a study on hydroxychloroquine, which found that patients taking it had worse outcomes than those that did not -


Then that study isn't it. That was a study conducted by the VA on already hospitalized veteran men with a median age of 66.5. Those taking either of the combinations did not have a worse outcome than those that took none. Did you read it?



Quote
Conclusive evidence?  Absolutely not, as the sample is too small.  However, more compelling than anecdotal tales.

My grandmother, God rest her soul, was an herbalist before your wife was born.  She also used wax pouring, which is a medical folk ritual.  My grandmother used to concoct a brew that cured the common cold.  I remember taking it as a child.  It had an awful taste, but I took it willingly, as the day after I drank that bitter brew, my cold had disappeared.  I asked her the name of it - I knew the herb, it used to grow alongside our riverbank, but it doesn't anymore.  I did find it in Chernihiv oblast, growing beside the river, but that's the only place I've seen it since the late 1980's, and in 1990. 

My grandmother used birch bark to make aspirin.  She used fennel seeds for digestive issues, honey for a variety of ailments, and other herbs for cuts, arthritis, etc.  So, my mother grew up with these remedies, as did I.  I know these work, and those herbs often form the basis of drugs for modern medicines.  Allicin from garlic, for example, is the most effective killer of "superbugs" known.

Irrelevant

Quote
The issue I have is suggesting something is a "cure" when it has not been proven, and that's where we are with hydroxychloroquine.  You might as well harvest the insides of apricots and give that to patients.

I didn't call it a cure. I said it was a treatment that doctors are using and claiming excellent results yet they get censored




Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GenMish on May 16, 2020, 04:45:00 PM

Dude, there's people dying. And you're bitching about your monetary losses???

You should be thankful to have your health!!! I bet if you were laid up in bed hooked up to a ventilator gasping for oxygen you wouldn't be worried about your losses!!
';'

Well 'Dude'
Destroying the worlds economy because some people that already had one foot in the grave will die from the virus doesnt make sense to me. OK..So I don't get my 3 million dollar retirement home in Kapalua with my Russian wife, big deal

I have my very young Laos gf that is fantastically beautiful, and now I can retire early to spend more time with her. Maybe a gain for me

 Maybe my divorce was a big plus. Who needs a 3 million dollar house with a Russian woman that hit the wall?

I just feel sorry for Generation Z
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on May 16, 2020, 05:29:17 PM


Then that study isn't it. That was a study conducted by the VA on already hospitalized veteran men with a median age of 66.5. Those taking either of the combinations did not have a worse outcome than those that took none. Did you read it?

Yes, I did.  The rate of death in HC taking patients was more than double that of patients with no treatment.

Quote
Irrelevant


I responded to what you posted.  If it's irrelevant, then your post was.

Quote
I didn't call it a cure. I said it was a treatment that doctors are using and claiming excellent results yet they get censored


Were they actually censored, you wouldn't know that physicians are using HC and claiming excellent results.  As I noted previously, there are also physicians claiming megadoses of Vitamin C make a huge difference.  There are some claiming Vitamin D dosages make a difference.  There are others claiming giving metformin to patients has given excellent results.  But none of those have been yet clinically proven to make a difference.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on May 16, 2020, 05:33:54 PM
Quote
Destroying the worlds economy because some people that already had one foot in the grave will die from the virus doesnt make sense to me.

There are deaths of the young and healthy as well as those with "one foot in the grave".  The reason there are fewer cases of young healthy victims is precisely because of isolation.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on May 16, 2020, 05:36:13 PM
As a non-American, it is no longer your business.


Is he a non American if he just lives abroad?  IIRC, Americans living abroad are still entitled to vote in American elections.  They also still pay US taxes.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on May 16, 2020, 05:49:33 PM
There are deaths of the young and healthy as well as those with "one foot in the grave".  The reason there are fewer cases of young healthy victims is precisely because of isolation.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

Doctor Boe, please provide your evidence that it is because of isolation.

As I recall, prior to the lockdown of the schools, the young were intermingled with the rest of the age groups that were spreading the virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on May 16, 2020, 06:04:49 PM
You mean someone doing exactly what you’re doing?

 

You mean coming to RWD and telling everyone what is wrong with world, what this virus is doing to my life and arguing with irrelevant people on an irrelevant forum??? Is that what you think I am doing?

I am hoping good health to all, trying to understand facts( which there are few here)of virus and watching 'grown' men arguing over who is 'right' and who is 'wrong' !!!!

Since you 'asked', I have been helping with my local hospital, the sheriff dept. and some local officials.

So which one are you, GQB?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on May 16, 2020, 06:06:42 PM
';'

Well 'Dude'
Destroying the worlds economy because some people that already had one foot in the grave will die from the virus doesnt make sense to me. OK..So I don't get my 3 million dollar retirement home in Kapalua with my Russian wife, big deal

I have my very young Laos gf that is fantastically beautiful, and now I can retire early to spend more time with her. Maybe a gain for me

 Maybe my divorce was a big plus. Who needs a 3 million dollar house with a Russian woman that hit the wall?

I just feel sorry for Generation Z

GenMish, I hope you and your girlfriend a happy and HEALTHY life!!! ))
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: LAman on May 16, 2020, 06:11:03 PM


Seriously though, you wanna start discussion between us horny old farts about dating nubiles and sexing them up, well you know, no one is stopping you from starting a thread or two. This way you can extricate yourself from 1 and graduate to 2.

How’s that for ingenuity?

Smart man GQB!!!

And like most relationships threads here, they'll get a few looks , maybe a post and fade.

If I start one about politics or now the virus, I'll get 50 pages and 1000 post in a few weeks!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 16, 2020, 06:37:09 PM

There are late night commercials telling people they are entitled to compensation if they took certain medications in the past. These medications have been through years of vigorous clinical trials and after 5 or 10 years, they say "Whoops! We messed up and those drugs are actually dangerous to the human body."

I'm all for doctors being allowed to give drugs in emergency situations but they disagree with what drug to give to a person as a last resort. Some will choose HCQ and others will choose something else. Why? Because there is no evidence whatever they're using is a safe and effective treatment for someone diagnosed with COVID-19. NOTHING. It's a matter of opinion. I can find a doctor and someone on Fox News that will say they know a safe and effective treatment but it doesn't make it true. There has never been a safe and effective treatment found for ANY coronavirus in history. To think they are going to magically find something sitting in their medicine cabinet is nuts. Every medicine we have has been designed for something else. There is no medicine designed to fight a coronavirus. They've tried before such as on SARS and MERS and they've failed.

Same with vaccines. No vaccines ever been found for a coronavirus. Governments are under great pressure to deliver results so there will be rush to deliver. Standard procedures for testing safety and effectiveness will be throw out the window. If a vaccine is invented, most likely it will not be effective for 100% of the people. They can't even get the test kits right and those are easier to create than a vaccine. Who knows? After we all get our shots, 5 years from now we may be entitled to some compensation because we're all F'd up. By the time we split the money from the government and court approved settlement, we'll each get $6.92 and have to live with Joe Biden disease for the rest of our lives.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on May 16, 2020, 08:34:12 PM
There are late night commercials telling people they are entitled to compensation if they took certain medications in the past. These medications have been through years of vigorous clinical trials and after 5 or 10 years, they say "Whoops! We messed up and those drugs are actually dangerous to the human body."

It appears you are contradicting yourself.  You indicate that laying on your potential death bed you will not take a drug that has not been 'proven' in clinical trials.  At the same time you are telling us that there are many lawsuits and awards to people because the clinical trials were flawed.

I'm all for doctors being allowed to give drugs in emergency situations but they disagree with what drug to give to a person as a last resort. Some will choose HCQ and others will choose something else. Why?  Because there is no evidence whatever they're using is a safe and effective treatment for someone diagnosed with COVID-19.

This is simply not true.  There are multiple doctors and recovered patients that have offered evidence that HCQ allowed the patients to recover in record times.  In some cases the doctors indicated that the early use of HCQ prevented the virus from getting more severe and resulted in avoiding the use of ventilators and oxygen.

The negative side effects of HCQ are well known and doctors would not likely prescribe it to patients with a high risk of side effects.


NOTHING. It's a matter of opinion. I can find a doctor and someone on Fox News that will say they know a safe and effective treatment but it doesn't make it true. There has never been a safe and effective treatment found for ANY coronavirus in history. To think they are going to magically find something sitting in their medicine cabinet is nuts.

It is your statement that is nuts!  Most of us have medications in our medicine cabinet that are used to treat different ailments.

Every medicine we have has been designed for something else. There is no medicine designed to fight a coronavirus. They've tried before such as on SARS and MERS and they've failed.

According to Dr. Fauci, the reason that there were no vaccines for some viruses is because the virus disappeared before clinical trials could be completed.

Same with vaccines. No vaccines ever been found for a coronavirus. Governments are under great pressure to deliver results so there will be rush to deliver. Standard procedures for testing safety and effectiveness will be throw out the window. If a vaccine is invented, most likely it will not be effective for 100% of the people. They can't even get the test kits right and those are easier to create than a vaccine. Who knows? After we all get our shots, 5 years from now we may be entitled to some compensation because we're all F'd up. By the time we split the money from the government and court approved settlement, we'll each get $6.92 and have to live with Joe Biden disease for the rest of our lives.

So now you don't want us to have any confidence that our academics and labs can come up with a safe vaccine?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on May 16, 2020, 08:42:45 PM
Yes, I did.  The rate of death in HC taking patients was more than double that of patients with no treatment.

Then you didn't read it because that is a lie

Quote
I responded to what you posted.  If it's irrelevant, then your post was.
Yeah well, that post wasn't directed to you

Quote
Were they actually censored, you wouldn't know that physicians are using HC and claiming excellent results.  As I noted previously, there are also physicians claiming megadoses of Vitamin C make a huge difference.  There are some claiming Vitamin D dosages make a difference.  There are others claiming giving metformin to patients has given excellent results.  But none of those have been yet clinically proven to make a difference.

You should Google more

Quote
This post was composed without the aid of google.

Yeah right
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 16, 2020, 09:38:28 PM
You indicate that laying on your potential death bed you will not take a drug that has not been 'proven' in clinical trials.


I never implied that. I explained clearly what HCQ does to the immune system. It suppresses it. Some people die because their immune system is too weak and COVID-19 wins. Some people die because their immune system went into overdrive creating so many antibodies that the antibodies are killing organs too. If on my death bed and the doctor says I'm dying because my immune system is in overdrive, I'd give permission for HCQ. If I'm dying because my immune system is too weak, I'd refuse HCQ. Most people who are on the HCQ bandwagon have no idea what it does and what the side effects are so they are more likely to make uneducated decisions. Trump went silent on HCQ. That should speak volumes to people here but apparently we are still talking HCQ when Remdesivir is now the drug of the month.


This is simply not true.  There are multiple doctors and recovered patients that have offered evidence that HCQ allowed the patients to recover in record times.  In some cases the doctors indicated that the early use of HCQ prevented the virus from getting more severe and resulted in avoiding the use of ventilators and oxygen.


Those are opinions. The dead, unfortunately can't offer their opinion. You read a few articles to formulate your opinion. Two early studies warn against HCQ. When a patient is in the hospital, doctors are doing a variety of things to help the patient. If the patient recovers, who's to say it wasn't something else that help the patient? Who's to say the patient's own immune system got the upper hand and defeated the virus itself? That's why we do studies to understand these things.


The negative side effects of HCQ are well known and doctors would not likely prescribe it to patients with a high risk of side effects.


Doctors know how to prescribe HCQ to people with malaria and lupus. They are entering the unknown when treating COVID-19 which the drug isn't designed for.


According to Dr. Fauci, the reason that there were no vaccines for some viruses is because the virus disappeared before clinical trials could be completed.


He's doing what he is supposed to do and that is give people hope so they don't panic. Panic kills. Some viruses in history have disappeared. Flu viruses, one being the Spanish Flu disappeared after a few years but we are dealing with a coronavirus that does not disappear without human intervention. SARS and MERS and your common cold viruses do not disappear. We do not need to take action against cold viruses because they cause us no harm. Action was taken against SARS and MERS to stop the spread. Early studies say SARS-COV-2 is taking 11-12 years off the average lifespan of humans. Forget about treatments. Without immunity and without a vaccine the cause of death of most of us will eventually be COVID-19.


So now you don't want us to have any confidence that our academics and labs can come up with a safe vaccine?


When the first wheel was invented, do you think it could win the Indianapolis 500? Don't expect the first vaccine ever created for a coronavirus to be perfect. It may not work perfect and it might actually harm a few people but as long as they believe it saves more lives than harm, it will be acceptable. There are times where vaccines and medicines were recalled. I hope that doesn't happen to the vaccine(s) they are planning to give to everybody in the world. I'm not going to be first in line for a vaccine. I'm fairly healthy compared to most people my age. For some time I will observe the effects on the first batch of people to get their shots. It'll be hard to filter out the BS from media, doctors, and people who claim the shots are the cats meow. There may be a number of vaccines floating around. When the dust settles, I'll go for the one that is determined most effective and safe.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 16, 2020, 10:09:45 PM


I didn't call it a cure. I said it was a treatment that doctors are using and claiming excellent results yet they get censored

If making bogus, misleading claims that get sheeple worked up in these bizarre times, removing their bollox is no bad thing .. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on May 16, 2020, 11:58:14 PM
Doctor Boe, please provide your evidence that it is because of isolation.

As I recall, prior to the lockdown of the schools, the young were intermingled with the rest of the age groups that were spreading the virus.


There are reports of debilitating strokes in COVID-19 patients under age 45.  They weren't in an age group with a "foot in the grave".  Now, think about the cost to society in treating victims with strokes so severe, they are usually seen in people over age 75.  That's without even accounting for human impacts, just medical over the life of the stroke patient.


COVID-19 has killed more people (over 313,000 in 8 months, assuming a first infection in October 2019, and that's with isolation) than SARS and MERS combined (1632 over 7 years), as it is far more infectious.  If people think that would have zero impact on the economy (i.e., if it were just allowed to run its course), they are dreaming. 


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 17, 2020, 01:20:36 AM
Don't expect the first vaccine ever created for a coronavirus to be perfect. It may not work perfect and it might actually harm a few people but as long as they believe it saves more lives than harm, it will be acceptable.
That is NOT how medicine works. IF any vaccin or medication will be released t will not be a matter of it might kill you or heal you.Remember that a success rate of 95% is equal to nothing. This means any medication or vaccin should at least reach a 99,5% succes rate to be acceptable. And to test that is not easy, which is why it takes time.In the mean time, snake oil sales men and woo supplers will have a field day as over 90% of people using their product recover.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 17, 2020, 03:13:24 AM
Shadow,

I would think slightly lower than 95% effectiveness would be ok for a start as long as it is proven 100% safe AND vaccination of everyone is mandatory.  Anti-vax folks will riot of course in the USA.

The ideal would be to combine with normal influenza vaccinations and kill two birds with one stone.  Granted influenza vaccines are not as effective due to different strains/mutations but still if mandatory would save a lot of folks that nowadays don't get vaccinated.

There will be more problems in the US as by then Covid will likely be running riot.  Except for UK and a couple others the fire will hopefully stay at very low level embers, still being tracked and isolated along with mass antibody testing that may reduce the requirement of vaccinating everyone the first time if antibodies persist for a reasonable period of time..

I am absolutely dumfounded how so many opportunities were and still are being missed in my country of birth.

Below instructions for our second phase beginning tomorrow.

(http://i.postimg.cc/bNMHhW0p/Screen-Shot-2020-05-17-at-12-11-48.png)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on May 17, 2020, 04:34:48 AM
If making bogus, misleading claims that get sheeple worked up in these bizarre times, removing their bollox is no bad thing ..

No surprise coming from you. You are wrong about everything all the time. Censorship is always a "bad thing"
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on May 17, 2020, 04:48:27 AM
Shadow,

I would think slightly lower than 95% effectiveness would be ok for a start as long as it is proven 100% safe AND vaccination of everyone is mandatory.  Anti-vax folks will riot of course in the USA.

Whoa, I don't even like the way that sounds. No vaccine has been proven 100% safe afaik, ever. If that were the requirement we wouldn't be using vaccines for polio, rubella and a host of others even now. I never had a flu shot until I was 50 years old and only then because my doctor strongly suggested it because of my age. Mandatory vaccinations is a violation of our liberties. That's New World Order thinking there friend

Quote
The ideal would be to combine with normal influenza vaccinations and kill two birds with one stone.  Granted influenza vaccines are not as effective due to different strains/mutations but still if mandatory would save a lot of folks that nowadays don't get vaccinated.

And a lot of other things could be included too, with or without your knowledge

Quote
I am absolutely dumfounded how so many opportunities were and still are being missed in my country of birth.
Such as?

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 17, 2020, 04:58:53 AM
Shadow,

I would think slightly lower than 95% effectiveness would be ok for a start as long as it is proven 100% safe AND vaccination of everyone is mandatory.  Anti-vax folks will riot of course in the USA.
As 95% is about the usual survival rate (though it could be anything from 90% to 97%) a vaccine that has a clinical survival rate of 95% is equal to nothing. Survival rate of a vaccine should be clearly better than no treatment.
I am very happy my kids have their full program of vaccination, which has protected them from a smallpox and rubella outbreak locally.

Unfortunately the number of people believe that vaccination is not needed because they have caused the disease to be rare is too high for comfort.
By the way I never took a flu shot. Prefer to get my flu in the wild ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 17, 2020, 07:52:47 AM
No surprise coming from you. You are wrong about everything all the time. Censorship is always a "bad thing"

Removal of bollox that harms heath isn't censorship - it's protection .. and these are not normal times and ( as usual ) your filters are misaligned )
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 17, 2020, 08:18:40 AM
Ah yes, eliminate all dissent to your opinion. No doubt you would've been a jack booted thug for Hitler and the Bolsheviks

The posting of misleading and inaccurate bollox re the

1/ efficacy of meds for use in totally unproven circumstances

and

2/ '5G masts are dangerous and should be destroyed' is something normal folks think is 'OK' ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 17, 2020, 08:24:56 AM
As 95% is about the usual survival rate (though it could be anything from 90% to 97%) a vaccine that has a clinical survival rate of 95% is equal to nothing.

Disagree that is "equal to nothing."  In fact a totally vaccinated population at a reasonable vaccine effectiveness should essentially eliminate the disease spread, maybe eventually eradicate the disease.
 
I don't know how you derived the 95% survival rate for a vaccine.   The ultimate goal of a vaccine is to provide immunity to the vaccinated.  Most vaccines provide at least 90% immunity.  This means 90% fewer infections, 90% fewer hospitalizations, and 90% fewer deaths.  That's not nothing! 
 


Quote
Prefer to get my flu in the wild ;)

Without a vaccine, you have a 80-85% chance of eventually becoming infected with COVID-19.   Hiding under your bed will not prevent becoming infected, as it is shown a majority of the new cases are happening to people following lockdown procedures. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 17, 2020, 08:34:04 AM
Disagree that is "equal to nothing."  In fact a totally vaccinated population at a reasonable vaccine effectiveness should essentially eliminate the disease spread, maybe eventually eradicate the disease.
 
I don't know how you derived the 95% survival rate for a vaccine.   The ultimate goal of a vaccine is to provide immunity to the vaccinated.  Most vaccines provide at least 90% immunity.  This means 90% fewer infections, 90% fewer hospitalizations, and 90% fewer deaths.  That's not nothing! 
 
We are talking about a different thing. A vaccin that stops 95% of caes is not the same as a vccin that offers a 95% survival rate for those infected.Any vaccin should either resist infection or increase survival rate of those infected to higher than not using any medicin.

Without a vaccine, you have a 80-85% chance of eventually becoming infected with COVID-19.   Hiding under your bed will not prevent becoming infected, as it is shown a majority of the new cases are happening to people following lockdown procedures.
When the majority of people follow lockdown that is not surprising.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 17, 2020, 08:36:23 AM
RWD’s Sunday morning funnies!

You mean coming to RWD and telling everyone what is wrong with world, what this virus is doing to my life and arguing with irrelevant people on an irrelevant forum??? Is that what you think I am doing?

Think? Read your posts DUDE. You are complaining about people who complain exactly like you do! LMAO!

Quote
I am hoping good health to all, trying to understand facts( which there are few here)of virus and watching 'grown' men arguing over who is 'right' and who is 'wrong' !!!!

Ahhh! Yes! Spoken as though unlike you, of course, who holds Darwin’s Secrets of Life in the palm of your hands. Sounds good to me, bruddah! Just don’t expect a dollar bill coming from me, OK?

Quote
Since you 'asked', I have been helping with my local hospital, the sheriff dept. and some local officials.

I didn't really 'asked' that. But since you're so desperate for a meager attention, you couldn't resist to feed the board with some BS. LMAO! Were you helping the sisters of mercy, too? You could at least be a little original man.

Anyway, once you’re through with these, let me know. I have something else for you to do! What a howler! You’re stuck home alone with no one to play then come here spread BS.

Quote
So which one are you, GQB?

I'm your Batman!

Smart man GQB!!!

And like most relationships threads here, they'll get a few looks , maybe a post and fade.

If I start one about politics or now the virus, I'll get 50 pages and 1000 post in a few weeks!!

See what I mean? Freaking complaining again. Since we know you hate complainers, you must hate yourself, dude. LMAO. Lockdowns must drive yourself nuts stuck in a house for days by yourself. How do you ever deal with that?

It’s little wonder you’d like to come to RWD and hoping upon hope you can have someone to discuss dating and relationships with young women from poor countries 20-30 years your junior. Things have changed quite a bit here, LAman.

Otherwise, you don't like to have to read any of the thread, don't! This is really VERY simple.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on May 17, 2020, 08:36:48 AM
Disagree that is "equal to nothing."  In fact a totally vaccinated population at a reasonable vaccine effectiveness should essentially eliminate the disease spread, maybe eventually eradicate the disease.

But it doesn't. In the early 2000's Rotary International set out to eradicate polio sending medical teams across the globe not only to every outbreak but to immunize every possible outbreak from all possible models. They even claimed eradication at one point and it appeared to have worked. Now polio is back and on the rise
 
The human race has been in a battle with microbes since the beginning of time and the only unprecedented difference is the reaction to this one
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 17, 2020, 08:38:18 AM
So say you. Silence everyone who might disagree. As per usual Moobs is wrong

In BOTH cases, I most certainly DO know better than you

1/ You'll only have heard about HCQ in the last 4 months ..

2/ mmWaves in the freq range used by 5G have been around for 3 generations .. In the US they've been used in point-to-point mw links and satellite transmission

5G masts are low powered and won't penetrate trees and foliage like, say 2.4GigaHertz.... so where were the loonies protesting about WiFi and Bluetooth, sat tv, and scanners in airports ?


Google ain't your friend ..

Still you'll have 'Confederate' on your side ... that MUST be 'reassuring' ..


 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Confederate on May 17, 2020, 08:41:14 AM
In BOTH cases, I most certainly DO know better than you

1/ You'll only have heard about HCQ in the last 4 months ..

2/ mmWaves in the freq range used by 5G have been around for 3 generations .. In the US they've been used in point-to-point mw links and satellite transmission

5G masts are low powered and won't penetrate trees and foliage like, say 2.4GigaHertz.... so where were the loonies protesting about WiFi and Bluetooth, sat tv, and scanners in airports ?


Google ain't your friend ..

Still you'll have 'Confederate' on your side ... that MUST be 'reassuring' ..

Says the lonely “jack booted thug” w/ herpes from mum’s basement.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on May 17, 2020, 08:47:41 AM
In BOTH cases, I most certainly DO know better than you

No you don't. Both cases of what? You are a champion of censorship. Do stay on topic or STFU
 
Quote
1/ You'll only have heard about HCQ in the last 4 months ..
Another lie from the mouth of Moobs. You might not be the only Gobshite that knew someone with lupus

Quote
2/ mmWaves in the freq range used by 5G have been around for 3 generations .. In the US they've been used in point-to-point mw links and satellite transmission

5G masts are low powered and won't penetrate trees and foliage like, say 2.4GigaHertz.... so where were the loonies protesting about WiFi and Bluetooth, sat tv, and scanners in airports ?


Google ain't your friend ..

Back to the Moobs moronic behavior of strawman construction. Please do point out where I posted one thing about mmWaves or 5G masts. Take your time, Ill wait
Quote
Still you'll have 'Confederate' on your side ... that MUST be 'reassuring' ..

Confederate owns you worse than Trench. That must be very comforting to you

 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 17, 2020, 08:53:28 AM
I'm all for doctors being allowed to give drugs in emergency situations but they disagree with what drug to give to a person as a last resort. Some will choose HCQ and others will choose something else. Why? Because there is no evidence whatever they're using is a safe and effective treatment for someone diagnosed with COVID-19. NOTHING. It's a matter of opinion.

You're so full of croc! It's unnerving. So all doctors are wrong because whatever they use, nothing works!

Then why the hell did we ever even bother hospitalizing any of these people if these doctors have no clue what they're doing other than disagree amongst each other! They didn't know to just to email you for the answers because YOU know? Hell, last we went through an exercise you had problems with simple arithmetic.

If it's a matter of 'opinion', why is yours so valid over others?

When the first wheel was invented, do you think it could win the Indianapolis 500?

What a brilliant metaphor! Explains a lot!

Quote
Don't expect the first vaccine ever created for a coronavirus to be perfect. It may not work perfect and it might actually harm a few people but as long as they believe it saves more lives than harm, it will be acceptable.

There's the silly and wild statement again. Will you be so kindly grace us a bit of your knowledge and be a bit 'more' precise. What realm of acceptability are YOU talking about before it is deemed 'ready' Marcus MD? 49 dead, but saved 51 can actually fit into your statement above. Ok, maybe best stay away from calculations and numbers. how about simply elaborating on that statement above?

 
I never implied that. I explained clearly what HCQ does to the immune system. It suppresses it. Some people die because their immune system is too weak and COVID-19 wins. Some people die because their immune system went into overdrive creating so many antibodies that the antibodies are killing organs too. If on my death bed and the doctor says I'm dying because my immune system is in overdrive, I'd give permission for HCQ. If I'm dying because my immune system is too weak, I'd refuse HCQ. Most people who are on the HCQ bandwagon have no idea what it does and what the side effects are so they are more likely to make uneducated decisions. Trump went silent on HCQ. That should speak volumes to people here but apparently we are still talking HCQ when Remdesivir is now the drug of the month.

It amazes me how you wildly swing your conviction/opinions based on your time surfing the internet. Then when in doubt, you subtly cover both sides of the argument to appear ‘smart’. Are you even understanding what you think you know? On one side of your mouth, you say according to the internet HCQ doesn’t work against COVID, yet open to it if the doctor tells you it can work while at your death bed. LMAO!

HCQ should only be used at the early stages of infection. Why? Because like its use for Lupus, which you already cited, it’s an immunity suppressant. An overly reactive autoimmune systems play a major part in the fatality cases with COVID and other disease and illnesses because it attacks even the healthy cells and causing more harm than good..

So under that very methodology why do YOU think it cannot work on COVID patients again? I asked this question before to answer it yes or no. Instead, like msmoby, you deflect and obfuscate.

Your conviction is much too inconsistent to be believed. Internet will do that to you. Look at what you’re posting..

There’s no such thing as a vaccine that’s 100% ‘safe’ and not cause any harm. And for you to be peddling some BS that you won’t try it unless it’s proven to be 100% safe is BS. It flies in the face of you peddling having your household don N95 mask at a time when the experts were saying it doesn’t help, and there’s no proof it stops the virus spread. Now here you are being a disciple to the same ‘experts to bank your beliefs. For starters, N95 mask is NOT 100% safe.

From the onset of this viral saga, follow everything Dr Fauci have said from the very beginning. The dude is guessing along with everyone else – albeit scientifically - but basically having the same result. In short, he’s just as clueless as the sheep he’s herding.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 17, 2020, 08:54:02 AM
We are talking about a different thing. A vaccin that stops 95% of caes is not the same as a vccin that offers a 95% survival rate for those infected.

No shit!  So what were you talking in the following?

Quote
As 95% is about the usual survival rate (though it could be anything from 90% to 97%) a vaccine that has a clinical survival rate of 95% is equal to nothing.

Why is it nothing? 

Quote
When the majority of people follow lockdown that is not surprising.

Yes, but take it to the next step.  Why is the infection rate about the same whether a person follows or disregards lockdown policies?

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 17, 2020, 08:55:46 AM
Says the lonely “jack booted thug” w/ herpes from mum’s basement.

Ah, so now I'm a 'Nazi' for mocking your 'truths'   :ROFL:

Again. there is no basement and if only Mum would live with us and allow us to live near the Med and sit by the pool at the villa in Cyprus ..

'Confederate' ALWAYS resorts to 'insults' when he is busted ... which happens .. rather a lot ..  a bit like his 'nick' .. he chose the side with no morals and the losers  :popcorn:

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 17, 2020, 08:59:15 AM
If people think that would have zero impact on the economy (i.e., if it were just allowed to run its course), they are dreaming. 

Only an idiot believes this. 

Reopening will in fact result in more cases of infection, maybe even exponential increases in some locales, requiring adjustments in reopening policies.  Nevertheless, the economy will improve. However, we all must accept it will take a long time for the economy to return to something close to normal. 

OTOH if we stay in lockdown it is certain the economy will continue to deteriorate, and not long before reaching devastating  levels.   Many people feel economically devastated now.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Confederate on May 17, 2020, 09:13:04 AM
Ah, so now I'm a 'Nazi' for mocking your 'truths'   :ROFL:

Again. there is no basement and if only Mum would live with us and allow us to live near the Med and sit by the pool at the villa in Cyprus ..

'Confederate' ALWAYS resorts to 'insults' when he is busted ... which happens .. rather a lot ..  a bit like his 'nick' .. he chose the side with no morals and the losers  :popcorn:

Ah yes, another bullshyte reply from Mr Diarrhea of the mouth and brain.

Go ahead and attempt to discredit your superiors by attempting to label them with the “conspiracy theorist” tag. Apparently you’re surprised when others respond.

Go ahead and post some more desperate photos of your latest victim, stuck in Russia, you know you want to!!

 :ROFL:

A Confederate is a man who believes in local governance and freedom from tyranny, both in thoughts but especially against centralized tyranny. But by all means, continue to post your piss ant opinions, disguised as authority!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 17, 2020, 09:18:51 AM
That is NOT how medicine works. IF any vaccin or medication will be released t will not be a matter of it might kill you or heal you.Remember that a success rate of 95% is equal to nothing. This means any medication or vaccin should at least reach a 99,5% succes rate to be acceptable. And to test that is not easy, which is why it takes time.In the mean time, snake oil sales men and woo supplers will have a field day as over 90% of people using their product recover.


People desperately want something, anything. Look how much talk is still on HCQ when our leaders have stopped talking about it. People were getting sick and overdosing on aspirin during the Spanish flu because they are looking for a cure without understanding the medicine.

Our leaders are going to have to deliver on a vaccine. Being rushed increases risk and decreases effectiveness. The virus that caused HIV has been around since the 80's and one virus our governments heavily invested lots of time and money into finding a vaccine with no success. Flu vaccines are easy to create but in their rush to create one for the latest mutation, they aren't always effective. A few years ago America had its deadliest flu season with 80,000 dying. They flu vaccine was only 17% effective. The year before the flu vaccine was only 34% effective.

http://www.statnews.com/2018/02/01/flu-vaccine-protection-h3n2/

In a matter of a couple months with massive action taken, COVID-19 already killed more than 90K Americans. We will embrace a vaccine even if it protect 17% of us and our government will promise to work on a better vaccine. Let's hope they have more success on SAR-COV-2 than they did on HIV.


HCQ should only be used at the early stages of infection.


Probably one reason early studies are showing doctors are killing more people than they are helping. A person's immunity system is the only thing that can beat the virus. Using HCQ early may suppress the immunity system to allow COVID-19 to win. When it is determined a person's immunity system is in overdrive and killing living tissue, it's also dangerous to give HCQ late in the game because it can further weaken the heart after COVID-19 has already done. But keep on peddling that snake oil. It was tried on SARS and failed. It is showing failure now. Trump moved on to remdesivir and so should you but lets quit celebrating HCQ like we won the World Series.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 17, 2020, 09:22:13 AM

I am absolutely dumfounded how so many opportunities were and still are being missed in my country of birth.


Obama's prepared remarks yesterday must have given you an  exhilarating tingle. 

How many past US Presidents have criticized their successors?  Obama must be feeling the pressure of the world now learning of his administration's leaders clandestine efforts to investigate Trump as a candidate and to hogtie him as a President.   


When talking about opportunities missed in your country of birth,  why do you mention reopening guidelines in Italy?       

What you have in Italy is something we have been following in Florida for about two weeks.  This must not be your example of "missed opportunity.  Maybe you had something else in your mind that "There will be more problems in the US as by then Covid will likely be running riot." 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 17, 2020, 09:26:10 AM
Probably one reason early studies are showing doctors are killing more people than they are helping. A person's immunity system is the only thing that can beat the virus. Using HCQ early may suppress the immunity system to allow COVID-19 to win. When it is determined a person's immunity system is in overdrive and killing living tissue, it's also dangerous to give HCQ late in the game because it can further weaken the heart after COVID-19 has already done. But keep on peddling that snake oil. It was tried on SARS and failed. It is showing failure now. Trump moved on to remdesivir and so should you but lets quit celebrating HCQ like we won the World Series.

There you go..once challenged, he moves to deflect and obfuscate.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Confederate on May 17, 2020, 09:32:55 AM
There you go..once challenged, he moves to deflect and obfuscate.

I suspect both Billy and Moby are on retainer with CNN!

For a guy professing to be a Trump supporter, Billy continues to take the Big Pharma/Globalist position, strange...(?)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 17, 2020, 09:39:29 AM
Billy continues to take the Big Pharma/Globalist position, strange...(?)


You've noticed I've been pushing HCQ and other treatments and encouraging people to rush to get their vaccine when it comes out. You're a pretty smart guy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 17, 2020, 10:21:28 AM
No shit!  So what were you talking in the following?

Why is it nothing? 

Yes, but take it to the next step.  Why is the infection rate about the same whether a person follows or disregards lockdown policies?
If medication makes no change in the survival rate, the medication has no effective value. If you o nothing a cold lasts 7 days. Take a pill an it only lasts a week.There for a medication against corona virus should increase the number of infected people that survive.

The infection rate oes not change with lockdown. Only the number of people that are infected. Reason is the amount of people meeting each other goes down, which effectively lowers the amount of people infected. However the infection rate of the virus might even go up in response.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 17, 2020, 10:34:37 AM
this is what Korea did, their leadership created a thing called a “plan”
they divided the country up into 3 different zones

Green zones require a minimum of one test per day for every 10,000 people and a five-person contact tracing team for every 100,000 people. (These are the levels currently maintained in South Korea, which has suppressed covid-19.) Two weeks ago, a modest 1,900 tests a day could have kept 19 million Americans safely in green zones. Today, there are no green zones in the United States.

Most Americans - about 298 million - live in yellow zones, where disease prevalence is between .002 percent and 1 percent. But even in yellow zones, the economy could safely reopen with aggressive testing and tracing, coupled with safety measures including mandatory masks. In South Korea, during the peak of its outbreak, it took 25 tests to detect one positive case, and the case fatality rate was 1 percent. Following this model, yellow zones would require 2,500 tests for every daily death. To contain spread, yellow zones also would ramp up contact tracing until a team is available for every new daily coronavirus case. After one tracer conducts an interview, the team would spend 12 hours identifying all those at risk. Speed matters, because the virus spreads quickly; three days is useless for tracing. (Maryland, Virginia and Washington, D.C., are all yellow zones.)

A disease prevalence greater than 1 percent defines red zones. Today, 30 million Americans live in such hot spots - which include Detroit, New Jersey, New Orleans and New York City. In addition to the yellow-zone interventions, these places require stay-at-home orders. But by strictly following guidelines for testing and tracing, red zones could turn yellow within four weeks, moving steadfastly from lockdown to liberty.

Getting to green nationwide is possible by the end of the summer, but it requires ramping up testing radically. The United States now administers more than 300,000 tests a day, but according to Korean guidelines, 5 million a day are needed (for two to three months). It's an achievable goal. Researchers estimate that the current system has a latent capacity to produce 2 million tests a day, and a surge in federal funding would spur companies to increase capacity. The key is to do it now, before manageable yellow zones deteriorate to economically ruinous red zones.

having a “plan” like Korea’s reduced their casualties by 99%
compared to calling it a hoax and doing nothing but continuous self-praise telethons

it’s a TOTALLY false choice to say that you prioritize the economy over lives
you CAN’T
because of this thing called “Reality”
because in reality the economy and the virus toll are linked in an inverse relationship
if the virus toll goes UP, then as a direct result the economy goes DOWN
remember, the collapse of the stock market happened BEFORE the shutdown
but in the absence of a plan
I expect a Trump rally with no masks in the next week or two
as our “official" death toll passes 100,000

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 17, 2020, 10:52:57 AM
If medication makes no change in the survival rate, the medication has no effective value. If you o nothing a cold lasts 7 days. Take a pill an it only lasts a week.There for a medication against corona virus should increase the number of infected people that survive.

I asked clarification about your statement that a "vaccine that has a clinical survival rate of 95% is equal to nothing."   And you give me simplistic examples of therapeutic medicine

To keep it simple:  A vaccine provides immunity from infection without inducing the disease.  A therapeutic medicine treats people who are already infected with the disease.

So why do you say a 95% effective vaccine is "equal to nothing?"



Quote
The infection rate oes not change with lockdown. Only the number of people that are infected. Reason is the amount of people meeting each other goes down, which effectively lowers the amount of people infected. However the infection rate of the virus might even go up in response.

R0 is dependent upon mitigation measures, e. g., the more social distancing the lower the R0.  The susceptibility of an exposed person does not change.  Susceptibility is not R0

The point I was trying to make is the data indicate no significant difference between staying at home vs. going to work.  There are many other factors to consider such as practices at the workplace and people now know what not to do. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 17, 2020, 11:14:39 AM
this is what Korea did, their leadership created a thing called a “plan”

Aren't we gearing up to do the same in the US? 

We got ahead of the 8-ball when banning China travelers but quickly got behind the 8-ball  in some locales because our testing was so limited in the beginning.

Quote
  Getting to green nationwide is possible by the end of the summer
 

But maybe not for some of those red hot locales.  And some complacent yellow areas could fail too.   The virus will not go away until we have an effective vaccine. 


 
Quote
having a “plan” like Korea’s reduced their casualties by 99%
compared to calling it a hoax and doing nothing but continuous self-praise telethons

I missed the periods when we did nothing.  Please name a period when our health departments and our federal and state governments were not doing anything?



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 17, 2020, 12:03:21 PM
Obama's prepared remarks yesterday must have given you an  exhilarating tingle. 

Other than a headline flash, did not see, hear or read his comments.

Quote
How many past US Presidents have criticized their successors?  Obama must be feeling the pressure of the world now learning of his administration's leaders clandestine efforts to investigate Trump as a candidate and to hogtie him as a President.   

Irrelevant, tangental and obfuscated attempt to respond to my post.

Quote
When talking about opportunities missed in your country of birth,  why do you mention reopening guidelines in Italy? 


Because Italy, despite a terrible start has done much more than we in the US to beat the bug at its game instead of being 'owned' by it. 90 days Gator, remember this number. We simply did not have the gumption to get it done right. 

Quote
What you have in Italy is something we have been following in Florida for about two weeks.  This must not be your example of "missed opportunity.  Maybe you had something else in your mind that "There will be more problems in the US as by then Covid will likely be running riot."

Trying to open up the economy when you haven't yet beaten down the virus to a manageable level is vastly different than what has been done here. Numbers in FL are not going down as they are doing here.

Look at NY, they are still fighting with success, largely holding back reopening until the numbers are down. Then look at your state and others that have 'opened back up' prematurely.  New infections are not going down.  In fact, if NY numbers were taken out the number of new infections in the US would be rising instead of being flat at 25k per day momentarily.  In the overall scheme of things, the US has deemed 25k new cases per day and 1500 deaths per day is quite ok.  Chances are, these numbers will now rise.

Had the US taken the same measures as Italy, there would not be 80,000 dead today.  It would be less than half that number with new infections getting close to a manageable level in the next week or so.  Instead, there will be at least 160k dead that may well go considerably higher and far longer.  That is 120k needless deaths.

We in the US gave up fighting long ago, instead, following the horse-drawn cart selling magic elixir and ointments.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 17, 2020, 12:37:40 PM
I asked clarification about your statement that a "vaccine that has a clinical survival rate of 95% is equal to nothing."   And you give me simplistic examples of therapeutic medicine

To keep it simple:  A vaccine provides immunity from infection without inducing the disease.  A therapeutic medicine treats people who are already infected with the disease.

So why do you say a 95% effective vaccine is "equal to nothing?"
You are correct, I am mixing the terms here. I will keep that in mind.

R0 is dependent upon mitigation measures, e. g., the more social distancing the lower the R0.  The susceptibility of an exposed person does not change.  Susceptibility is not R0

The point I was trying to make is the data indicate no significant difference between staying at home vs. going to work.  There are many other factors to consider such as practices at the workplace and people now know what not to do.
When comparing the statistics of Sweden and Denmark it seems to show that a (partial) lockdown does work. Where Denmark (doing an early lockdown) shows the number of cases going down after some time, Sweden (no lockdown) stays level on the number of new cases. Initially the development was alike, but after a month the difference starts showing.People expect an immediate effect of a lockdown, and that is not the case. First of all there is the incubation period of two weeks that needs to be taken in to account, then the fact that a lockdown causes initial extra shopping and contact in order to be able to have it. This means that the first month will not show a difference, but after that the effect will be seen, as long as people o not get impatient.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 17, 2020, 12:45:03 PM
Had the US taken the same measures as Italy, there would not be 80,000 dead today.  It would be less than half that number with new infections getting close to a manageable level in the next week or so.

What are you talking about?

Italy didn't take any measure to avoid death, you simple ran out of old people to kill. Didn't Italy just carted them off a room and closed the door?

It is well know the world over.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 17, 2020, 12:49:50 PM
What are you talking about?

Italy didn't take any measure to avoid death, you simple ran out of old people to kill. Didn't Italy just carted them off a room and closed the door?

It is well know the world over.

It is well known... by who?  YOU ?

Italy had an epicentre..a hotspot   .. IF you had a clue, you'd realise that it's been stamp on and the embers on glowing ..... meanwhile in the US, the fires are a burning bright all over the country ...

The UK and the US REALLY screwed up, despite lots of clues ...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 17, 2020, 12:55:17 PM

The UK and the US REALLY screwed up, despite lots of clues ...
Boris Johnson survived... althoough some might consider that part of the screwup.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 17, 2020, 12:56:58 PM

u
It is well known... by who?  YOU

You are the definition of obtuse. From your own media even ...

http://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200428-coronavirus-how-doctors-choose-who-lives-and-dies
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 17, 2020, 01:32:32 PM

Trump launches "Operation Warp Speed" obviously stolen from Star Trek. It's about vaccines and Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar says we had 100 of possible candidates and we are down to 14 now. Eventually we'll get down to 4 or 5 and governments will invest heavily in them. The goal is to have 300 million vaccines ready by January. He also said we'll manufacture vaccines before the studies are finish and may have to discard hundreds of millions of vaccines if determined the studies conclude they are not safe and effective. Video of the interview below.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/health-secretary-aiming-for-300-million-coronavirus-vaccine-doses-by-2021/ar-BB14ddWh?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 17, 2020, 02:50:39 PM
Boris Johnson survived... althoough some might consider that part of the screwup.

Some might consider, you are just online for 'sport', tonight, John ...   Actually, I think his becoming ill has woken him up, slightly .... He was saved by a Portuguese nurse ( amongst others ) who wouldn't be here under his new immigration rules AND she'll be asked to pay over £600 to use the very service she works for and pay  'social insurance' [ National Insurance in UK ]

Boris, had better wake up, soon.. he's losing his grip and his ministers are headless chickens setting standards / targets they have to lie about to 'hit'...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 17, 2020, 03:09:06 PM
What are you talking about?

Italy didn't take any measure to avoid death, you simple ran out of old people to kill. Didn't Italy just carted them off a room and closed the door?

It is well know the world over.

No, they did what was humanly possible with what was available, and are still doing so.  We in the US OTOH are not, instead opting to let folks die in trade for chasing an economic mirage.

There are millions of elderly folks left in Italy, and everyone is sacrificing to keep it that way.

Today there are 762 Italians in intensive care. At the peak, there were around 4000. Today over 16,000 Americans are in intensive care.

(http://i.postimg.cc/L5LQB3RZ/Screen-Shot-2020-05-17-at-23-25-48.png)

Graphs are shifted compensating for the two weeks the US is behind Italy.

Every death above the red line in the US was preventable.  Sure, doctors here had to make some very tough choices.  In the US our leader is making that choice with doctors relegated to stuffing body bags.  In the US many more will die needlessly for reasons not even related to medical care, with many more to follow, far longer than in Italy.

Our inept leader is making those life and death decisions, not doctors.  This is well known the world over.

Go to funerals and start shaking hands of mourning mothers, fathers, sons and daughters.  Thank them heartily, for their sacrifice so you can enjoy your new car, house, pool or investments.  You owe it to them. Show 'em how much you really care.


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 17, 2020, 03:16:02 PM

Irrelevant, tangental and obfuscated attempt to respond to my post.

I admit to assuming your sentiments as expressed in the past.  I also admit to being miffed that Obama would at this critical time choose to criticize the administration specifically about the pandemic.  This nation needs to be working together, not only to defeat the virus but to restore the economy. 
 

Quote
  Because Italy, despite a terrible start has done much more than we in the US to beat the bug at its game instead of being 'owned' by it.

I compare Florida's  22 million population vs. Italy's 60 million. The numbers are comparable if Florida data are multiplied by 3x.    As with Italy, Florida too has a hot spot, Miami multi-county region accounting for about 50% of the cases.  And Florida as Italy has an older population (damn retirees like me). 

The curves of infection differ remarkably.  Instead of a steep, well defined peak as in Italy, Florida experienced a more gradual increase with a flatter peak enduring for a longer time.   

I do see Italy has lowered its infection rate dramatically from a peak of about 6,000 cases/day in late March to 900 cases/day in mid-May.  That is very commendable and reflects your stringent mitigation policies.   

Our peak new case rate was about 1200/day which was seen multiple times over 6 weeks but the mean over that period was about 800/day.   That later dropped to 600/day.  We have been reopening for about two weeks and rates have remained steady so far at the same rate of about 600/day.  Maybe that is because Florida never completely closed (restaurants and similar closed but many activities including some churches remained open with precautions). 

Based on population, today's rate is about twice that of Italy's.   Hospitalizations are averaging about 150/day, but only 84 today with just 9 deaths (partial data?). 

I don't see where you can say that Italy is a "win" and the US is a "loss."   Deaths have totaled 31,763 in Italy and  1,973 in Florida.  Clearly Italy suffered the most with prorated 5x more deaths than Florida.   Will Florida suffer longer, which I assume is your point?   

We will see, and it is too early to predict magnitudes.     


Quote
90 days Gator, remember this number. We simply did not have the gumption to get it done right. 

Italy still have more time to go before it hits 90 days.  If 90 days mean you have eliminated the disease as claimed in Australia,  Italy is the winner and your economic recovery over the next couple of years should reflect it. 

Quote
Trying to open up the economy when you haven't yet beaten down the virus to a manageable level is vastly different than what has been done here. Numbers in FL are not going down as they are doing here.

True, but the goal in Florida is not to eliminate the disease but to reopen and not exceed the capacity of the healthcare system. BTW, we are performing about 15,000 tests per week.  How many tests is Italy performing?  We still have staff shortages for contact tracing, especially in Miami-Dade. 


Quote
Had the US taken the same measures as Italy, there would not be 80,000 dead today.  It would be less than half that number with new infections getting close to a manageable level in the next week or so.  Instead, there will be at least 160k dead that may well go considerably higher and far longer.  That is 120k needless deaths.


You are guessing, but maybe that is more reliable than math modeling of this pandemic, given the experience so far.   :(   

Quote
We in the US gave up fighting long ago, instead, following the horse-drawn cart selling magic elixir and ointments.

Regarding your first part,  the US is fighting by each individual taking precautions as we go back to work. The second part confirms my assumption about your sentiments as I wrote in the beginning.  ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 17, 2020, 03:20:38 PM
"This nation needs to be working together, not only to defeat the virus but to restore the economy. "

oh that Obama!
ALWAYS attacking and belittling his opponents
must be a Kenyan thing
good you called him on it
ummm hmmmm


"Aren't we gearing up to do the same in the US? "

Korea geared up in two weeks, where are we? trying to decide if leeches or clorox works best for a Corona treatment
Texas is "opening up" now, probably a coincidence that today we had our highest number of deaths and infections
there are NO contact tracers in Texas
because here in Texas no one thinks the virus is a real threat
so no social distancing is needed
this winter the death toll will be horrible here in Texas when all these people currently dismissing the threat start getting infected in the next exponential phase
the second exponential curve will be staggering in size compared to the first
then Mexico will probably invade and take Texas back,
good thing we have a wall to keep their Army out, right?

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 17, 2020, 03:46:11 PM
"This nation needs to be working together, not only to defeat the virus but to restore the economy. "

oh that Obama!
ALWAYS attacking and belittling his opponents
must be a Kenyan thing
good you called him on it
ummm hmmmm

He was smooth.  So much to never be seen belittling people,  other than factory workers from industrial towns, especially those who cling to their religion or gun philosophy.   Meanwhile others were doing his work.     

I don't recall any past President criticizing his successor in public. Why?  Is this about the campaign?  Or is this to distract from walls coming down that have hidden what those in his administration have done?     We will learn more. 

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 17, 2020, 03:49:41 PM
Some might consider, you are just online for 'sport', tonight, John ...   Actually, I think his becoming ill has woken him up, slightly .... He was saved by a Portuguese nurse ( amongst others ) who wouldn't be here under his new immigration rules AND she'll be asked to pay over £600 to use the very service she works for and pay  'social insurance' [ National Insurance in UK ]

Boris, had better wake up, soon.. he's losing his grip and his ministers are headless chickens setting standards / targets they have to lie about to 'hit'...

She just happened to be the nurse in attendance, any other nurse would do the same thing. They are of course going to give Boris special treatment that no other non-minister of Parliament, i.e member of the general public will receive. It was a common courteousy that Boris thank the nurse assigned to care for him closely. It just so happened that she was Portuguese but it should have no bearing on policy at large.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 17, 2020, 04:02:48 PM
Well virus deaths in the UK are down to around 170 or so today. So things seem to be heading in the right direction hear and a lot better than a couple of weeks or so ago. Still a way to go though and I don't think life will start getting anywhere near to what it was till about July. By that time more stuff should be feasible, the virus infections should be under control and more permanent worked out ways of working that make sense should be coming through. Some I think are already but there is still more work to be done on that I think. The rest of May and June will likely be more waiting for the infection & death rate to fall and on getting more people back to work and business moving again.

Ukraine is putting forth low infection & death rates due to early lockdown measures, Georgia too. I think the main problem for both these countries will be the hit their economies take and possible social unrest that may follow. An early lockdown means that the economy will be out just as long as in the west, possibly more so .

Myself I am itching to get back out there and dating women. In some respects it has given me time I needed to work on my house but there is of course no guarantee if the dating scene will return this year. I'm still hoping that July, August, etc may be possible to get flights out there and date women. I'm not sure a mandatory keep two meters apart sounds appealing though, lol.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 17, 2020, 04:07:26 PM
This nation needs to be working together, not only to defeat the virus but to restore the economy.

Instead, we decided to live with the virus instead of defeating it.  Obama has nothing to do with that.
 

Quote
I compare Florida's  22 million population vs. Italy's 60 million. The numbers are comparable if Florida data are multiplied by 3x.    As with Italy, Florida too has a hot spot, Miami multi-county region accounting for about 50% of the cases.  And Florida as Italy has an older population (damn retirees like me).


Yes pretty similar, divide by 3. Italy is still 'older' by a few years (longevity).  Obviously longevity will drop a bit for a couple years.

Quote
The curves of infection differ remarkably.  Instead of a steep, well defined peak as in Italy, Florida experienced a more gradual increase with a flatter peak enduring for a longer time. 
 

Lapses in testing early on could well account for the softer lead-up. More worrisome is the flat peak that continues on and on, possibly rising due to restarting prematurely.

Quote
I do see Italy has lowered its infection rate dramatically from a peak of about 6,000 cases/day in late March to 900 cases/day in mid-May.  That is very commendable and reflects your stringent mitigation policies.


Indeed, measures were and still are stringent, but totally based on data and 'following the plan'. 

Quote
Our peak new case rate was about 1200/day which was seen multiple times over 6 weeks but the mean over that period was about 800/day.   That later dropped to 600/day.  We have been reopening for about two weeks and rates have remained steady so far at the same rate of about 600/day.  Maybe that is because Florida never completely closed (restaurants and similar closed but many activities including some churches remained open with precautions). 

Only time will tell.  The effects of what we do today will be apparent in two weeks.

Quote
Based on population, today's rate is about twice that of Italy's.   Hospitalizations are averaging about 150/day, but only 84 today with just 9 deaths (partial data?). 

Likely partial.  I wish worldometer had a date select instead of just 'Yesterday'.


Quote
I don't see where you can say that Italy is a "win" and the US is a "loss."   Deaths have totaled 31,763 in Italy and  1,973 in Florida.  Clearly Italy suffered the most with prorated 5x more deaths than Florida.   Will Florida suffer longer, which I assume is your point?

Yes.  We're also two weeks ahead of you, approximately.  We'll know more down the road, but suspect lack of testing also contributed to underreporting covid related deaths, more so in the US than Italy.
Quote
We will see, and it is too early to predict magnitudes. 
   

Yes, agree.

Quote
Italy still have more time to go before it hits 90 days.  If 90 days mean you have eliminated the disease as claimed in Australia,  Italy is the winner and your economic recovery over the next couple of years should reflect it.


National lockdown started 10 March IIRC so another 20 days to go. I hope the downward trend continues,  Testing continues full force with around 20% of tests performed daily are actually retesting of folks that were infected to give them the 'all clear' then they are dropped from the infected charts and shown as recovered.  They wait for the retest here and are not using some time factor to determine 'recovered' status.

Quote
True, but the goal in Florida is not to eliminate the disease but to reopen and not exceed the capacity of the healthcare system. BTW, we are performing about 15,000 tests per week.  How many tests is Italy performing?  We still have staff shortages for contact tracing, especially in Miami-Dade. 

35-40 thousand per day, not counting retesting.

Quote
You are guessing, but maybe that is more reliable than math modeling of this pandemic, given the experience so far.   :(   

I'm usually fairly good at interpreting data and business workflow processes/analysis.  Good enough that it pays the bills ;)

Quote
Regarding your first part,  the US is fighting by each individual taking precautions as we go back to work. The second part confirms my assumption about your sentiments as I wrote in the beginning.  ;D

However, the first part requires commitment from all, sea to shining sea. I don't see that happening.  As to the second, the cart analogy refers to the loss of data-driven decision making, but do admit to being guilty of a misdemeanour for the manner in which it was phrased.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 17, 2020, 04:19:21 PM
Well virus deaths in the UK are down to around 170 or so today. So things seem to be heading in the right direction hear and a lot better than a couple of weeks or so ago.

Body counters need rest also. It'll pop back up when they go back to work.


Quote
Myself I am itching to get back out there and dating women. In some respects it has given me time I needed to work on my house but there is of course no guarantee if the dating scene will return this year. I'm still hoping that July, August, etc may be possible to get flights out there and date women. I'm not sure a mandatory keep two meters apart sounds appealing though, lol.

Virus or not, you don't even try to get dates.  That's why you itch. Some say one can go blind as well.  Hire-a-bonk is not really dating.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 17, 2020, 04:28:49 PM
Well virus deaths in the UK are down to around 170 or so today.


See the USA chart BC posted with roller coaster style up and down movement on deaths? UK does the same type of reporting. Numbers are low on Saturday, Sunday and Monday since they report the day prior. Medical staff and government tend to get lazy on the weekend. You'll see the number skyrocket on Tuesday as they try to catch up on the death toll.

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on May 17, 2020, 05:11:45 PM
Some random thoughts and questions I have about the big picture of the Corona Virus epidemic.

1.  The traditional way humanity has dealt with plagues, etc is to isolate the sick from the rest of the population.

2.  This virus appears to have characteristics that has made this nearly impossible for a couple reasons.  First, the virus spreads so fast and is so easily caught that chasing it was very difficult.  Perhaps, under the circumstances the best choice was for people to self isolate until solutions and more scientific knowledge was gained about the virus behavior.  The second reason this appears to have been so difficult to contain is because of the long incubation period before symptoms appear.  So many people had no symptoms and were unknowingly spreading the virus.

3.  I am not really interested in playing the blame game as to political decisions made in various countries on how they handled the response to the pandemic (other than China).  There was very little known about the new virus and politicians had to initially do what they did with very limited knowledge.

4.  There is another side of protecting the public for this particular virus.  Rather than try to isolate the infected in a runaway epidemic, there is the potential to isolate the most vulnerable.  Early stats indicated that the elderly and those with underlying health conditions are the most likely to turn into fatalities.  It appears to me that we failed in this effort.

5.  In our county most of the deaths occurred at nursing homes for the elderly.  I think this was a colossal failure.  It turns out that the nursing homes in our area used the same medical staff to go from nursing home to nursing home and infect the residents.  At the time, there was already enough data to know how easily the virus spreads and  the susceptibility of older people to the virus.  If there is any blame to be made, I would point it toward the administrators of these facilities.  They are trained in the treatment of illnesses and are supposed to have a reasonable background in medical science.

6.  From what I gather from the news media as well as some members here, eventually everyone will become infected until such time they are vaccinated with a working vaccine.  I guess going off grid or not leaving your house is an option for some.

7.  If this is the case, then I would conclude that everyone including myself that is in the high risk age group should self isolate and be fearful of becoming infected.  Is that the general consensus or am I overstating it?

8.  This is not easy to achieve.  While I am allowed to work at home for much of the time, I still have to go into the lab and my office on occasion to handle tasks that I cannot do from home.  While we are practicing safe distancing at work, I suppose it is not a 100% safe environment.

9.  Since I am the only family member in the high risk age group there are still threats that my wife or daughter could bring the virus home.  Lisa (11) has been out of school since they closed but the schools are talking about reopening.  It seems to me that the highest risk is if she were to come in contact with a school mate and bring the virus home.  Other than washing her hands every day when she gets home, I am not sure what other precautions she could take to minimize the risks.  Larissa has been unable to find a job in her field of Agronomics so is currently not working.  Although Walmart and Amazon are hiring like crazy anyone that can fog a mirror,  I don't think it is a good idea for her to mingle with the public and increase the risks.  We are somewhat between a rock and a hard place.  Larissa has been ordering groceries on line and having them delivered over the past couple of months.  Only rarely do I venture to Home Depot to buy something I need to maintain the cars and our home.

10.  Other than layoff threats in Aerospace many years ago, this is the first time I can remember being in a selected category of being at risk for something serious.  It is not a good feeling and other than waiting for a vaccine I am not sure what else I can or should be doing.

11.  Have I summed up the obvious conclusions or am I missing something?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on May 17, 2020, 05:50:27 PM
Good analysis Doug.

One comment that I posted earlier . . . I heard head of Medicine from Johns Hopkins say that the older folks in USA plus younger folks with serious medical conditions constitute 1/3 of USA population.

Thus the idea of isolating such is not feasible.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on May 17, 2020, 05:56:52 PM
Cal, I don't know what your health picture is or your approx age but, I would caution you to not buy into the hysteria. Take whatever  precautions that you see fit. It's not like the virus is leeching around every corner to infect you. It really is as simple as you'll contract it or not. If you do get it you'll likely not die. Stay aware, keep your age and health in mind while the virus is active. Don't stop living your life or ask your wife or daughter to stop theirs IMO
 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Confederate on May 17, 2020, 06:12:24 PM
May 9, 2020
Autopsies Prove that COVID-19 is a Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation (Pulmonary Thrombosis)
It is now clear that the whole world has been attacking the so-called Coronavirus Pandemic wrongly due to a serious pathophysiological diagnosis error.
According to valuable information from Italian pathologists, ventilators and intensive care units were never needed.
Autopsies performed by the Italian pathologists have shown that it is not pneumonia but it is Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation (Thrombosis) which ought to be fought with antibiotics, antivirals, anti-inflammatories and anticoagulants.
If this is true for all cases, that means the whole world is about to resolve this novel pandemic earlier than expected.
However, protocols are currently being changed in Italy who have been adversely affected by this pandemic.
The impressive case of a Mexican family in the United States who claimed they were cured with a home remedy was documented: three 500 mg aspirins dissolved in lemon juice boiled with honey, taken hot. The next day they woke up as if nothing had happened to them! Well, the scientific information that follows proves they are right!
This information was released by a medical researcher from Italy:
“Thanks to 50 autopsies performed on patients who died of COVID-19, Italian pathologists have discovered that IT IS NOT PNEUMONIA, strictly speaking because the virus does not only kill pneumocytes of this type but uses an inflammatory storm to create an endothelial vascular thrombosis.”
In disseminated intravascular coagulation, the lung is the most affected because it is the most inflamed, but there is also a heart attack, stroke and many other thromboembolic diseases.
In fact, the protocols left antiviral therapies useless and focused on anti-inflammatory and anti-clotting therapies. These therapies should be done immediately, even at home, in which the treatment of patients responds very well.
If the Chinese had denounced it, they would have invested in-home therapy, not intensive care! So, the way to fight it is with antibiotics, anti-inflammatories and anticoagulants.
An Italian pathologist reports that the hospital in Bergamo did a total of 50 autopsies and one in Milan, 20, that is, the Italian series is the highest in the world, the Chinese did only 3, which seems to fully confirm the information.
In a nutshell, the disease is determined by disseminated intravascular coagulation triggered by the virus; therefore, it is not pneumonia but pulmonary thrombosis, a major diagnostic error.
Some world leaders doubled the number of resuscitation places in the ICU, with unnecessary exorbitant costs.
According to the Italian pathologist, treatment in ICUs is useless if thromboembolism is not resolved first. “If we ventilate a lung where blood does not circulate, it is useless, in fact, nine (9) patients out of ten (10) will die because the problem is cardiovascular, not respiratory.”
“It is venous micro thrombosis, not pneumonia, that determines mortality.”
According to the literature, inflammation induces thrombosis through a complex but well-known pathophysiological mechanism.
Unfortunately, what the scientific literature said, especially Chinese until mid-March was that anti-inflammatory drugs should not be used.
Now, the therapy being used in Italy is with anti-inflammatories and antibiotics, as in influenza, and the number of hospitalized patients has been reduced.
He also discovered that many deaths, even in their 40s, had a history of fever for 10 to 15 days, which were not treated properly.
The inflammation does a great deal of tissue damage and creates ground for thrombus formation. However, the main problem is not the virus, but the immune hyper reaction that destroys the cell where the virus is installed.
In fact, patients with rheumatoid arthritis have never needed to be admitted to the ICU because they are on corticosteroid therapy, which is a great anti-inflammatory.
With this important discovery, it is possible to return to normal life and open closed deals due to the quarantine, though not immediately, but with time.
Kindly share so that the health authorities of each country can make their respective analysis of this information, prevent further deaths and redirect investments appropriately; the vaccine may come later.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 17, 2020, 06:26:36 PM
11.  Have I summed up the obvious conclusions or am I missing something?

Missing? Yes and No.

Recorded case in the US is 1,528,000. This number represents known (tested) positive cases. 'Experts' suggest that the rate of people infected with COVID is actually up to about 10 times the number of known cases. Short order, worse case: say 15,280,000 total number of people infected. In a country with a population of 331,000,000 +, this suggests a ratio of about 22:1.  Average it out, it suggests it will take a non-infected person 21 different persons to get the virus from. Could be the first person, maybe the last or even somewhere in between. BUT, as an engineer, you should also know to apply both specific and sensitivity to that number. Take the actual applied cases above specific to your area. That 21:1 ratio will definitely be on a proper sliding scale.

If you're sheltering, which I would suggest based on your age and 'health' that you do, this already means you're only exposure is with generally the same folks. Wife and child certainly can add to this, but having them observe proper mitigation measures would 'help' lessen the chances.

MIT Economics did its research (http://www.nber.org/papers/w27102.pdf) covering lockdowns and its effect. The link I gave is a PDF document report of that research. Otherwise, here's the website (http://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/mit-sloan-research-about-coronavirus-pandemic).

Wall Street Journal (http://www.wsj.com/articles/targeted-lockdowns-are-better-11588630768) did a report in summary, too. The research calls your case 'targeted lockdown'.

Do what you feel you must for yourself.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 17, 2020, 06:30:30 PM

 Since I am the only family member in the high risk age group there are still threats that my wife or daughter could bring the virus home. 

 I am not sure what other precautions she could take to minimize the risks.


If you got central air delivering heat and cool air throughout the home, turn it off and close the vents. CNN's Chris Cuomo got the virus and self isolated in his basement. Eventually his wife and two of his kids got infected. There's a chance your family can bring it home but you can minimize the chances you get infected. Hopefully we have the best Christmas ever with the announcement of a working vaccine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on May 17, 2020, 07:05:47 PM
Confederate...

Thank your for the post.  Very interesting.  I wish I had the skills in medical science to evaluate the credibility of the report.  It would appear to me that it goes against the grain of all our "USA Experts" that are quoted on TV.  It is either a very well written
hoax or a breakthrough in diagnosing and treating the victims of the virus.

I would also suggest in the future that you add a blank line between paragraphs. It makes it a lot easier to read.

Do you know if there has been any peer review in Europe of this report?  If so, can you provide any links?

It also brings up another curious question.  The report does not mention the use of HCQ and Zinc in the treatment.  Was there anything that indicates one way or the other whether HCQ had any value for his suggested treatments?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Confederate on May 17, 2020, 07:31:18 PM
Confederate...

Thank your for the post.  Very interesting.  I wish I had the skills in medical science to evaluate the credibility of the report.  It would appear to me that it goes against the grain of all our "USA Experts" that are quoted on TV.  It is either a very well written
hoax or a breakthrough in diagnosing and treating the victims of the virus.

I would also suggest in the future that you add a blank line between paragraphs. It makes it a lot easier to read.

Do you know if there has been any peer review in Europe of this report?  If so, can you provide any links?

It also brings up another curious question.  The report does not mention the use of HCQ and Zinc in the treatment.  Was there anything that indicates one way or the other whether HCQ had any value for his suggested treatments?

Good evening Calmissile, I saw it on Facebook and thought it very interesting. Other than that it’s all I know about it.

BTW I have a fresh squeezed lemon several days a week. Today I did similar to what they mentioned with honey, but a much smaller dose of aspirin.

Seems to me steroidal anti-inflammatories might have promise; consult your MD of choice for their advice.

http://m.facebook.com/debizzlesizzles/posts/130957065234138
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Confederate on May 17, 2020, 07:53:09 PM
 :ROFL: :ROFL:

http://babylonbee.com/news/coronavirus-passes-over-houses-with-cfa-sauce/
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on May 17, 2020, 07:57:06 PM
I sent the facebook link to a physician, a professor of medicine working on the front lines of the COVID crisis.  Here is the response -


Unlikely.  I think it is multi system organ failure in extreme cases.  You see DIC, or thrombosis in severe cases of systemic inflammatory response.  It's not just one system affected.  It's important to remember that most patients (90%) are fine . . . more likely with a respiratory infection than thrombosis.




This post was composted without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on May 17, 2020, 08:38:01 PM
http://aapsonline.org/about-aaps/
It's a non-partisan group of medical physicians, Steve. Where exactly did it say they are either a conservative or liberal, or any political affiliation in their website? Please point it out for me.

Are these doctors fake? Do they have an agenda, you think? If so, please provide proof.

As for their clinical citations provided in their findings, are you saying they are fabricated? I'm not sure what you're implying so please elaborate.

Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons)

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons)

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/aaps-make-health-care-great-again/607015/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/aaps-make-health-care-great-again/607015/)

http://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-journal-of-american-physicians-and-surgeons-ideology-trumps-science-based-medicine/ (http://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-journal-of-american-physicians-and-surgeons-ideology-trumps-science-based-medicine/)

http://scienceblogs.com/ethicsandscience/2009/05/05/fake-journals-versus-bad-journ (http://scienceblogs.com/ethicsandscience/2009/05/05/fake-journals-versus-bad-journ)

http://respectfulinsolence.com/2006/03/14/journal-of-american-physicians/ (http://respectfulinsolence.com/2006/03/14/journal-of-american-physicians/)

http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00041590&cycle=2018 (http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00041590&cycle=2018)

http://www.crunchbase.com/organization/association-of-american-physicians-surgeons#section-overview (http://www.crunchbase.com/organization/association-of-american-physicians-surgeons#section-overview)


Not to be confused with American Association of Physician Specialists, which actually is non partisan.


And about that article that HCQ improves recovery of Covid 19.  The article states that, but if you look at the data they are using to justify that statement, it is just a list of number of patients treated with HCQ and the results.  None of them were studies, where you have to compare against something, like a control group of similar size that has not been treated, or treated with another drug.   

By omission, the control group is the overall cases vs recovery of Covid 19 patients ouside the 2000+ people added up in the various reports.   About 90% recovery of Covid-19 patients who were treated with HCQ is actually worse than the global average of 93%, 94% for USA.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 17, 2020, 10:17:19 PM
Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons)

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons)

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/aaps-make-health-care-great-again/607015/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/aaps-make-health-care-great-again/607015/)

http://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-journal-of-american-physicians-and-surgeons-ideology-trumps-science-based-medicine/ (http://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-journal-of-american-physicians-and-surgeons-ideology-trumps-science-based-medicine/)

http://scienceblogs.com/ethicsandscience/2009/05/05/fake-journals-versus-bad-journ (http://scienceblogs.com/ethicsandscience/2009/05/05/fake-journals-versus-bad-journ)

http://respectfulinsolence.com/2006/03/14/journal-of-american-physicians/ (http://respectfulinsolence.com/2006/03/14/journal-of-american-physicians/)

http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00041590&cycle=2018 (http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00041590&cycle=2018)

http://www.crunchbase.com/organization/association-of-american-physicians-surgeons#section-overview (http://www.crunchbase.com/organization/association-of-american-physicians-surgeons#section-overview)

Speaking of non-partisan, I really like these links, Steve. Good job! Especially the one with WIKI where it credited MSNBC's Rachel Maddow's show for the write-up.

And of course, The Atlantic! The publication that endorsed Hillary Clinton, same gal that financed the dossier to start the Russian collusion Then lobbied for Trump's impeachment way back in 2017, then this...
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/03/impeachment-trump/580468/

RespectfulInsolence, CrunchBase, scienbasedmediine, scienceblog! WOW! A lot of very notable establishments there, man! A very impressive list indeed. Keep it coming, bud!

Quote
And about that article that HCQ improves recovery of Covid 19.  The article states that, but if you look at the data they are using to justify that statement, it is just a list of number of patients treated with HCQ and the results.  None of them were studies, where you have to compare against something, like a control group of similar size that has not been treated, or treated with another drug.

You mean like take ten 10 patients and administer the drug, and take another and administer placebo, right? This is what you're alluding to, and only IF the ten patients administered with placebo all died while the ten HCQ patients lived, then you got your 'studies'. Would you be one of those willing persons being administered placebo to while struck with the virus for the exercise? To see if the other 10 survives and not you? Oh wait, maybe they lie to these folks by saying they're giving them a treatment but not really, right?

Hell, at least in Italy they don't even bother with that. They just cart them off a room and leave them there and then come back later to collect the body.

You have people alive today that went through the process and would vouch the drug was their turning point! Do those even count with you? Maybe no because you'd say it's anecdotal? Or maybe they're being political plants? LMAO. How many people would it take for you for this to become relevant?  You're looking for guarantee? To quote Donna_Pedro, "buy a toaster1".

Quote
By omission, the control group is the overall cases vs recovery of Covid 19 patients ouside the 2000+ people added up in the various reports.   About 90% recovery of Covid-19 patients who were treated with HCQ is actually worse than the global average of 93%, 94% for USA...

BS! You just did the same thing the data you just demonize had done. How the heck can you conclude the US have a 94% survival rate by equating the reported death rate from the total case when these are not only active cases, but many are in serious/critical condition.

You are stuck saying nothing is valid unless a study is conducted and completed, yet leaped frog your own conclusion based on an active and ongoing cases. You haven't even included the asymptomatic cases that no one knows for sure how many.

Here's the bottom line. You don't buy HCQ is effective because clinical trials are missing, Good! Some people do - I do simply because you have people who survived and stated it was because of the drug, with support from their own physicians or doctors that treated them. Unless those doctors or their physicians attest it wasn't so, then I believe them.

You believe continued lockdowns are great! Good. I don't. People like you can stay home, others can go. Conitnued lockdowns are idiotic and far deadlier than this virus will ever be.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 17, 2020, 10:29:49 PM
Colorado is the first state I know that will now begin to report accurate causes of death.

http://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2020/05/16/colorado-changes-how-coronavirus-deaths-state-counted/5198485002/

Maybe someday we'll find out exactly, or at least close to it, how many of the dead actually died BECAUSE of COVID, not died WITH COVID of other causes.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 18, 2020, 12:34:10 AM
UK does the same type of reporting. Numbers are low on Saturday, Sunday and Monday since they report the day prior.



Bugger, you quoted Trench...  He knows VERY well the weekend figures are very low.

Of course people aren't 'lazy' at the weekends ... it is an accepted FACT that civil servants are allowed a weekend break
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 18, 2020, 12:46:47 AM
Calmissile,
Your assesment is pretty good, the main thing is being careful and watching yourself for symptoms as early as possible. If you have as only problem your age and are otherwise in good health, do not panic. A Dutch woman of 104 years old survived COVID-19, age is not the primary factor.Yet it pays off to be aware. For myself, due to my other health issue I will be working from home until the end of June anyway, and due to a history of asthma and a double pneumonia that feels pretty safe.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 18, 2020, 02:20:51 AM

Hell, at least in Italy they don't even bother with that. They just cart them off a room and leave them there and then come back later to collect the body.


There you go again GQ.. spewing swill.

At least here they tried, instead of just writing folks off the books.  Remember the number 40,000 and send your condolences to the rest.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 18, 2020, 02:39:47 AM
I sent the facebook link to a physician, a professor of medicine working on the front lines of the COVID crisis.  Here is the response -

As reported a while back, heparin has been used in Italy since April with reportedly good results (anecdotal)

Around 20 trials are underway but no concrete results yet, 5 are already recruiting.

http://www.msn.com/it-it/notizie/italia/coronavirus-la-cura-sperimentale-con-leparina-funziona/ar-BB12q0UV

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=heparin&cond=COVID&Search=Apply&recrs=a&age_v=&gndr=&type=&rslt=
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 18, 2020, 02:44:21 AM
If we can keep the 'r' number below 1 then eventually we should reach a point where the number of infected falls to 0. Do that in every nation throughout the world and after a couple of weeks or so any trace of the virus left around will degrade and the virus will be gone presumably never to return.

The only slight caveat in this is whether it could/would jump from the animal population to humans again through close contact or whatever. We are assuming of course that the Chinese might have at last learnt their lesson and are not dumb enough to eat wild animals, bat droppings or whatever decaying animal they like to serve up as a delicacy ::)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 18, 2020, 03:39:34 AM
If we can keep the 'r' number below 1 then eventually we should reach a point where the number of infected falls to 0. Do that in every nation throughout the world and after a couple of weeks or so any trace of the virus left around will degrade and the virus will be gone presumably never to return.

The only slight caveat in this is whether it could/would jump from the animal population to humans again through close contact or whatever. We are assuming of course that the Chinese might have at last learnt their lesson and are not dumb enough to eat wild animals, bat droppings or whatever decaying animal they like to serve up as a delicacy ::)
As China is pretty big with a large population of which most will not even understand there was a panic, the next case is just a matter of time.Perhaps there is already a new corona virus somewhere in China, it just has not yet made it to the cities.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 18, 2020, 06:25:14 AM
LA, first city in the US, to open testing to its residents.

http://www.lacity.org/highlights/free-covid-19-testing-now-open-all-residents-or-without-symptoms

Now if only our city would follow suit and stop the mindless lockdown we can make the left coast great again.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 18, 2020, 06:35:44 AM

MIT Economics did its research (http://www.nber.org/papers/w27102.pdf) covering lockdowns and its effect. The link I gave is a PDF document report of that research. Otherwise, here's the website (http://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/mit-sloan-research-about-coronavirus-pandemic).

Wall Street Journal (http://www.wsj.com/articles/targeted-lockdowns-are-better-11588630768) did a report in summary, too. The research calls your case 'targeted lockdown'.


You mention this MIT work with little fanfare, yet it is significant because it shows a "targeted lockdown" will result in 50% less  economic damage (and the same number of deaths) as a uniform lockdown.  Adjustments can be made to reduce deaths by 50% with the same economic damage as a uniform lockdown. 

The important takeaway  is uniform lockdown is wrong.  "...once the most vulnerable group is protected, the other groups can be reincorporated into the economy more quickly.”
 

Florida closed  schools and restaurants in the lockdown yet was less stringent in many other regards.  Unlike New York, Florida focused on senior centers and nursing homes given their prevalence in the state.  New York strangely kept diagnosed COVID-19 patients in their nursing homes even though the  hospitals provided on an emergency basis by the Feds went underutilized.     

Given our experience with math models of the pandemic, the mention of another model makes my eyes roll.   ::)    However, MIT discloses their differential equations and assumptions and it seems better than what I have seen with other models.  The WSJ mentioned that the MIT economic results are similar to results developed by the Univ. of Chicago.   

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 18, 2020, 07:47:09 AM


Now if only our city would follow suit and stop the mindless lockdown we can make the left coast great again.

I suppose you mean, lifting the 'mindless' lockdown will cull the vulnerable and old and those who didn't even think they were either ... REAL 'smart' ..

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 18, 2020, 07:57:45 AM

This post was composted without the aid of google.


Finally, the truth!!!  I believe we already have ample detritus in RWD posts. 

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

Thanks, I needed something humorous today. 

Are you planning the start of your vegetable garden? 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 18, 2020, 08:14:32 AM
You mention this MIT work with little fanfare, yet it is significant because it shows a "targeted lockdown" will result in 50% less  economic damage (and the same number of deaths) as a uniform lockdown.  Adjustments can be made to reduce deaths by 50% with the same economic damage as a uniform lockdown. 

The important takeaway  is uniform lockdown is wrong.  "...once the most vulnerable group is protected, the other groups can be reincorporated into the economy more quickly.”
 


It's sign of the times. Maybe just in this site. After reading it, I am reminded how they were exhaustively calculating and literally considered almost every detail necessary and tried not to disregard key components of every scenario. Both numerically and logically.

Quote
Florida closed  schools and restaurants in the lockdown yet was less stringent in many other regards.  Unlike New York, Florida focused on senior centers and nursing homes given their prevalence in the state.  New York strangely kept diagnosed COVID-19 patients in their nursing homes even though the  hospitals provided on an emergency basis by the Feds went underutilized.


Largely ignored was Gov. Cuomo's admission that 67% of their fatalities were people who actually sheltered from home.


It's been 3 weeks now, and I remember folks saying Georgia will be the next NY due to its governor opening up too soon, including what is termed *non-essential* businesses. You'd think the MSM will be like flies over a carcass on this one by now.


California have +3,000 deaths in a state with a population of 40 million. To stop an economic machine that's rated as the 5th largest economy globally with the current survival rate with a tick below 99% is just absolutely INSANE!     

Quote
Given our experience with math models of the pandemic, the mention of another model makes my eyes roll.   ::)    However, MIT discloses their differential equations and assumptions and it seems better than what I have seen with other models.  The WSJ mentioned that the MIT economic results are similar to results developed by the Univ. of Chicago.


I concur.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 18, 2020, 10:57:13 AM

503,000 Britons have taken the online suicide prevention course within a three week period. What's going on over there? Trench??? Moby??? What was your score on the questionnaire? How close are you two from pulling the plug? I heard having more sex can pull a guy out of depression.

http://uk.style.yahoo.com/coronavirus-covid19-suicide-mental-health-090906329.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 18, 2020, 11:39:09 AM
503,000 Britons have taken the online suicide prevention course within a three week period. What's going on over there? Trench??? Moby??? What was your score on the questionnaire? How close are you two from pulling the plug? I heard having more sex can pull a guy out of depression.

http://uk.style.yahoo.com/coronavirus-covid19-suicide-mental-health-090906329.html

Never knew it existed ( but glad it does  - for those that need it )   

I wouldn't begin to make a joke about it as a fellow sailing club member lost his 19 yr old son in Nov 18 in this fashion while studying at Uni ..




Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 18, 2020, 11:44:19 AM
503,000 Britons have taken the online suicide prevention course within a three week period. What's going on over there? Trench??? Moby??? What was your score on the questionnaire? How close are you two from pulling the plug? I heard having more sex can pull a guy out of depression.

http://uk.style.yahoo.com/coronavirus-covid19-suicide-mental-health-090906329.html

One of the very likely consequence of prolonged lockdowns, especially for the small to medium sized business owners sitting idly by while watching what they worked so hard to build fizzle to nothing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 18, 2020, 11:47:25 AM
Billy,

A lot of weak-minded people in the UK now...comes from too much lefty liberalism in our media and being force fed to us,so people have lost their sense of identity and values.

When I was a kid i'd walk miles to and from school..now the little darlings have to be taken to and picked up from schools in their mommy's car.

Kids are spoilt and self-entitled here nowadays..which comes from being spoilt by their parents.

You've heard the expression When the going gets tough the tough get going...well over here it's become when the going get's tough let's curl up and hide,

Consequently self-esteem is low among people here,with low moral values..so if something becomes difficult suicide looks like an easy way out.

Brexit was won by most of the older generation voting to reduce immigration which has diluted our society and also by trying to restore our previous values...a punch in the nose for our lefty media.

God help us if Russia went to war with us...we'd be beaten within a week.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Confederate on May 18, 2020, 01:53:38 PM
Billy,

A lot of weak-minded people in the UK now...comes from too much lefty liberalism in our media and being force fed to us,so people have lost their sense of identity and values.

When I was a kid i'd walk miles to and from school..now the little darlings have to be taken to and picked up from schools in their mommy's car.

Kids are spoilt and self-entitled here nowadays..which comes from being spoilt by their parents.

You've heard the expression When the going gets tough the tough get going...well over here it's become when the going get's tough let's curl up and hide,

Consequently self-esteem is low among people here,with low moral values..so if something becomes difficult suicide looks like an easy way out.

Brexit was won by most of the older generation voting to reduce immigration which has diluted our society and also by trying to restore our previous values...a punch in the nose for our lefty media.

God help us if Russia went to war with us...we'd be beaten within a week.

72 hours if Uncle Sugar didn’t rescue your lot; AGAIN.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 18, 2020, 03:17:09 PM
Billy,

A lot of weak-minded people in the UK now...comes from too much lefty liberalism in our media and being force fed to us,so people have lost their sense of identity and values.

When I was a kid i'd walk miles to and from school..now the little darlings have to be taken to and picked up from schools in their mommy's car.

Kids are spoilt and self-entitled here nowadays..which comes from being spoilt by their parents.

You've heard the expression When the going gets tough the tough get going...well over here it's become when the going get's tough let's curl up and hide,

Consequently self-esteem is low among people here,with low moral values..so if something becomes difficult suicide looks like an easy way out.

Brexit was won by most of the older generation voting to reduce immigration which has diluted our society and also by trying to restore our previous values...a punch in the nose for our lefty media.

God help us if Russia went to war with us...we'd be beaten within a week.

This is true, I'm fed up with Millennials constantly expecting their bums to be wiped and everything handed to them on a plate without any work on their part. Even career jobs many expect just to be handed to them or fall into in recent years.

I've noticed at the slightest obstacle or adversity they start whinging and whining and saying how they will 'do themselves in' if everything is not quickly made right in their perfect little world. They've got no idea of why people contemplate suicide they just see it as the ultimate throwing of toys out of pram the moment they encounter adversity. Then you have the mental health lot that constantly whinge about their mental health and want the whole world to pity them with all focus being on them. It all comes down to parents not bringing them up right, putting them straight on the way the world is at an early age and how they just have to accept it and get on with it and being pampered way too much.

Like you say CB kids used to walk to school, I did mostly with just the odd treat of a car journey here and there. Nowadays it's not only seen as a mandatory daily trip that nearly all parents must undertake ferrying their children around everyday but it must also be done in a vehicle the size of a tank unless woe betide a car accident might happen so unsettling the fragile nature the child is accustomed to being brought up in, lol.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 18, 2020, 03:23:52 PM
~ "We did not inherit this land from our fathers. We are merely borrowing it from our children"  ~


- Sitting Bull


(He's dead now. He didn't realize how useless the millenials are going to be. No one's perfect )
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 18, 2020, 05:24:42 PM
Confederate,

                 We did pretty well fighting the Germans practically on our own for years.

I wonder how long the USA would have lasted fighting Germany on their own ?

Going by how the Sea Wolves were sinking your shipping for fun until the Brits told you how to combat them AGAIN,not too long I suspect.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: mhr7 on May 18, 2020, 08:18:47 PM
Confederate,

                 We did pretty well fighting the Germans practically on our own for years.

I wonder how long the USA would have lasted fighting Germany on their own ?

Going by how the Sea Wolves were sinking your shipping for fun until the Brits told you how to combat them AGAIN,not too long I suspect.

Appeasement much?

Those ships were bringing supplies to help you folks and all you do is complain. Boo-hoo.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 19, 2020, 03:30:39 AM
mhr7

I apologise for the historical howlers of the likes of Chelseaboy..

I can only see his revisionist historical howlers when someone quotes him .. 

Few of us were even around when Roosevelt had the balls to ignore the Germanic / Irish 'neutrals'
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 19, 2020, 04:41:42 AM
mhr7

       The USA ships being sunk by the Sea Wolves were after Hitler declared war on the USA on 12th December 1941,so you wasn't doing us any favours.

You didn't want to help us at all before then.

Roosevelt wanted to help the Brits but the American public wanted none of it.

Where were you lot during the Battle of Britain and the London Blitz ?

Watching with interest but not wanting to get involved..that's where.

Yeah we did ok practically having to fight the Germans on our own,stopped them invading us..with the help of some Polish pilots.

Pearl Harbour on 7th December 1941 quickly followed by Hitler declaring war on you five days later  left you reeling and with no choice but to actually get off your arses.


The shipping you started sending was because you needed to keep us in the war to help you out boo hoo.

After the USA entered the war in December 1941,because you now had no choice, German U-Boats sank nearly 500 ships off the USA east coast in early 1942 .The numbers of lost ships dropped dramatically after the Brits taught you how to use convoys to counter the threat of the Sea Wolves,after you'd previously ignored our advice.

Luckily for you the Brits were there to hold your hand after Hitler declared war on you or you'd all be goose-stepping now.

Maybe you,Moby and Confederate need to stop watching Hollywood movies for your World War 2 facts .

Actually,when Moby's in your camp over anything you KNOW you're in trouble.

As ever clueless Moby is talking drivel again I see....by the way around 12,000 Irish servicemen fought against Germany and when the survivors returned home after the war they faced scorn,hostility and abuse from the Oirish public..yeah people like Moby.

The Oirish public would rather Germany had defeated Britain ,USA and Canada..that's the Oirish for you,they prefer Nazi's.

Anti- British venom,rhetoric and vitriol drips from their mouths..just as it does from Moby on these forums.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 19, 2020, 09:05:15 AM
The State of Washington had long survived the COVID assault chiefly because it targeted the hotspots when this first started exploding, which are nursing homes. As we now know, contrary to what Gov. Cuomo had done in NY.

Washington not only flattened the curve, it flattened it flatter than an Aunt Jemima pancakes. Yet, politically, it long sat out reopening the state to assure total political impact. Nothing new there, neighbors Oregon and California are spooning along with Washington. The Blue-Balled states.

But what is interesting in the land of BillyB is in its much delayed business reopening. Gov. Inslee wanted restaurants to open with the condition that they will need to acquire private contact information of every person who dines in their establishment. Anyone who refuses will not be allowed to be out public and will be confined in their homes, and wouldn't even be able to go shopping even for groceries. They would have to ask a relative or a friend to do this for them. LMAO!!! When asked by a reporter how will he enforced this, he remarked the state have trained personnel to do this, plus there will be reliance on the public at large, too. Apparently they actually have (had?) a program termed 'The Snitch List'. Neighbors spying and reporting on people defying the 'stay-at-home' mandate!

Many Washingtonians are already up in arms due to an explosion of burglaries because the State is not only releasing criminals due to the virus, is also apparently refusing to arrest anyone who committed a crime.

BillyB, do tell if this is actually happening in your wonderful home state.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 20, 2020, 10:10:09 AM
BillyB, do tell if this is actually happening in your wonderful home state.


Indian land Casinos are open but every other non essential business is not. I guess it's part of payback to the Indians and to show we are not racist. Soon restaurants, gyms and other non essential businesses will be open with limitations. Early June, my wife will be allowed to go back into a college classroom for her studies.

Many Washingtonians are already up in arms due to an explosion of burglaries because the State is not only releasing criminals due to the virus, is also apparently refusing to arrest anyone who committed a crime.


Sunday my parents had a punk trespass on their property twice in the same day after being told he's not supposed to be there the first time. Monday night the punk tried to break in their shed unsuccessfully. They called the cops but the cops didn't want to come out to investigate due to COVID-19 concerns. Last night and early this morning I, Sig Sauer 9mm, and a Saturday Night Special was wanting to see if he was bold enough to come for a 3rd day in a row. He made the wise decision not to show up.

Last month my very liberal State Supreme Court came one vote from releasing the most violent criminals. We came one vote away from releasing the Green River Killer.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 20, 2020, 10:59:00 AM
"....and a Saturday Night Special "

don't advertise your "throw-away" here, in case detectives search your PC...
I'd recommend a shotgun instead of a handgun for night time use (you want a "gas operated" semi auto like Remington 11-87, or Bennelli, this gives substantially less recoil than a pump shotgun)
I'm retrofitting my house with AI cameras that can detect human movement, plus adding more external night lights to dissuade people who didn't get  stimulus checks from trying to steal one
night time visitors have dramatically risen in the last month in my area, mostly car break-ins at the moment...

I've had 3 confrontations with virus resisters
in my state, maybe the only one that will allow this, I can freely carry ANY kind of blade, so long as it is not concealed (I WANT people to see mine!)
all I had to do was put my hand on a knife handle for the confrontations to end...
I can imagine how this will escalate by this time next year
I expect I will have made my first kills by then or be a casualty myself
just recently got my concealed carry license
I carry a snub nose in an ankle holster FBI style + 2 Japanese Tanto knives in custom sheaths mounted on my suspenders for faster access
and figured out how to draw AND attack in one smooth straight hand and body movement that takes under 1 sec
plus Israeli gas mask with CBW filter, gloves, rubber boots, and plastic full length rain coat
when I come out, strip off protective gear and put it into a plastic bag to disinfect with Trump recommended disinfectant
this is necessary in order to go into any kind of store here which is filled with virus protestors not wearing any protective gear who take offense at mine and want to literally "get in my face"
I'm the only outside contact person for my "crew" to reduce our exposure to just one of us
the one who is best able to defend themself
my new normal

and all of you are still in denial about where this is going to be a year from now
civilization, such as it is, will be on the verge of collapse as one domino after another falls into the next one
until there aren't any more




Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 20, 2020, 12:10:40 PM

and all of you are still in denial about where this is going to be a year from now
civilization, such as it is, will be on the verge of collapse as one domino after another falls into the next one
until there aren't any more

My only fear is that you mutate with the new capability of replicating.    ;)

So you sheath your killing knives on your suspenders.........  I picture you as a cross between Inglorious Basterds (your tribe) and Duck Dynasty (my tribe).   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on May 20, 2020, 12:19:53 PM
Documentary on Frontline about covid19 in Italy.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/inside-italys-covid-war/
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 20, 2020, 01:12:55 PM
"I picture you as a cross between Inglorious Basterds (your tribe) and Duck Dynasty (my tribe). "

that's a pretty fair approximation, since I'm a half-breed, I'm a bit of both
against my wife's wishes, I'm letting my hair grow long, my daughter braided the front
when people drive by me, they lock their car doors
most people keep their distance from me, which is my intent
lots of animals use predator mimicry as a defense, it's a pretty cost effective defense strategy
compared to actually fighting which thus far, I haven't been forced to do
but I expect the time will come...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 20, 2020, 01:15:22 PM
Documentary on Frontline about covid19 in Italy.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/inside-italys-covid-war/

Most of the suffering in Italy that followed, and the eventual global spill of it, did not have to happen had it not been for Italy's utter dependency to its new overlord, China. Instead of heeding the early warning back in November that something is seriously wrong that people are dying of some strange and severe cases of pneumonia, they instead played a silly game of 'Hug-a-Chinese' and even hosted a special concert to the Chinese delegates.

Because of this stupid brown-nosing, look what happened to so many people in the aftermath.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on May 20, 2020, 03:09:35 PM
Last night PBS showed a little preview of show that was to air later.
It was about medical doctors in northern Italy who were dealing with Corona.

The preview had a MD telling how she had to chose who would die and who would live because of lack of equipment.

I knew right then that I could not watch the show.
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on May 20, 2020, 03:50:22 PM
Luckily for you the Brits were there to hold your hand after Hitler
declared war on you or you'd all be goose-stepping now.


Everyone see's history through their own lens.  :D

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Chelseaboy on May 20, 2020, 04:17:17 PM
Well I might have embellished that bit : )
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 20, 2020, 04:55:09 PM
Before the pandemic became a pandemic, my wife and I were planning a trip to Hawaii.  When the pandemic started, I changed my mind thinking Hawaii's proximity to Asia would mean the state would have a wave of infections.

Hawaii was never hit by a virus wave and had one of the lowest number of cases if not the lowest (600+ cases, almost all recovered).  And the State is keeping it that way. 

"Gov. David Ige on Tuesday extended the two-week quarantine rule for all travelers who arrive in Hawaii through June 30. For visitors, the rule means no leaving their hotel room for any reason but medical care. No pool, spa or restaurant. No beach or shopping. Just room service and the same view for two weeks."

If they were to open, a huge number of tourists from the East and West  would want to enjoy the tropical splendor without fear of becoming infected other than by whatever their fellow "haole" brought with them and caught on the plane ride.     
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on May 20, 2020, 06:17:28 PM
For those wondering what was in the CDC guidelines :

http://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/php/CDC-Activities-Initiatives-for-COVID-19-Response.pdf

short version here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/cdc-guidelines-released-at-last-offer-low-key-guide-to-reopening/2020/05/19/c99eb63a-99f8-11ea-a282-386f56d579e6_story.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 20, 2020, 11:23:29 PM
mhr7

   
Anti- British venom,rhetoric and vitriol drips from their mouths..just as it does from Moby on these forums.

What a strange thing to suggest, unless you are simply bored and trolling.

I'm anti-'Brexit' .. Care to explain how you figure out 'anti-British'  :ROFL:


For sure, I now prefer to use an IRL passport and it opens more doors than a UK one and causes less angst when in EU nations and even when applying for RU visas .. which *I'll* get online from Jan 1 2021 ... while the likes of you'd be queing to get your fingers scanned ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 20, 2020, 11:28:50 PM
I knew right then that I could not watch the show.

ML,

It's not a medical thriller, nor apocalypse movie but instead a very human story.  No plot, script or agenda, more a day by day behind the scene account of life and death that tries to 'put you there'.

Well worth the time to watch and reflect.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 21, 2020, 12:08:32 AM
Most of the suffering in Italy that followed, and the eventual global spill of it, did not have to happen had it not been for Italy's utter dependency to its new overlord, China. Instead of heeding the early warning back in November that something is seriously wrong that people are dying of some strange and severe cases of pneumonia, they instead played a silly game of 'Hug-a-Chinese' and even hosted a special concert to the Chinese delegates.

Because of this stupid brown-nosing, look what happened to so many people in the aftermath.

Written as if the virus wasn't already transmitting via community spread in your own back yard at the time, hidden within cases of influenza.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/new-postmortem-covid-19-began-us-january-mistaken-flu-12668646

(http://i.postimg.cc/MKF0Yj8b/Screen-Shot-2020-05-21-at-09-06-35.png)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 21, 2020, 01:40:46 AM
Most of the suffering in Italy that followed, and the eventual global spill of it, did not have to happen had it not been for Italy's utter dependency to its new overlord, China. Instead of heeding the early warning back in November that something is seriously wrong that people are dying of some strange and severe cases of pneumonia, they instead played a silly game of 'Hug-a-Chinese' and even hosted a special concert to the Chinese delegates.

Because of this stupid brown-nosing, look what happened to so many people in the aftermath.
Everyone is to blame except the people themselves...."There are just 15 cases, by April it will have disappeared".
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 21, 2020, 05:39:50 AM
Written as if the virus wasn't already transmitting via community spread in your own back yard at the time, hidden within cases of influenza.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/new-postmortem-covid-19-began-us-january-mistaken-flu-12668646

It’s ok BC, you’re desperately reaching. I already posted that here before. Unfortunately it doesn’t change the Italian reality. The Nocal west coast strain didn’t spread and was contained. The suspicion was contact was made from a person that came in from Wuhan. They suspected that in the first week of January. By the third week Trump made the swift decision to ban flights from China despite an overwhelming objection and ridicule from liberals like you.

It wasn’t until Americans began coming back from Europe that all hell broke loose. Of course you already knew the reason why, right?

Do you think what the Italian government did was cool by ignoring the early cases in November so as not to offend your overlords?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 21, 2020, 05:51:26 AM
Everyone is to blame except the people themselves...."There are just 15 cases, by April it will have disappeared".

You should really pay attention a little better next time. This is just like your silly statement about a 95% effective vaccine is nothing.

What was said was ‘there’s a theory that by April when it will become warm, this will all disappear’.

So a) it was remarked as a theory; b) Trump delivers information conveyed to him by the medical force group who gathered and meet prior to those briefing.

So explain how did this have any similarity about what the Italians caused the world over.

Hmmmm? :devil:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on May 21, 2020, 12:49:17 PM
As if anyone needed more to worry about. Nigerian scammers applying for unemployment in US.

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/05/u-s-secret-service-massive-fraud-against-state-unemployment-insurance-programs/
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 21, 2020, 01:19:37 PM
You should really pay attention a little better next time. This is just like your silly statement about a 95% effective vaccine is nothing.

What was said was ‘there’s a theory that by April when it will become warm, this will all disappear’.

So a) it was remarked as a theory; b) Trump delivers information conveyed to him by the medical force group who gathered and meet prior to those briefing.

So explain how did this have any similarity about what the Italians caused the world over.

Hmmmm? >:D
Very simple.  Blme the Chinese for letting it out of their country, blame the Italians for not doing enough. Mhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MKFtEYuHRA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MKFtEYuHRA)anwhile...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 21, 2020, 04:52:13 PM
As if anyone needed more to worry about. Nigerian scammers applying for unemployment in US.

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/05/u-s-secret-service-massive-fraud-against-state-unemployment-insurance-programs/

Looks like they're hitting my state hard. We have the best unemployment insurance in the USA. People can get $790 a week plus the extra $600 a week the federal government is giving amounts to $1390 a week those Nigerian scammers are getting. I wonder who they're going to vote for in the next election?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on May 21, 2020, 06:59:39 PM
Looks like they're hitting my state hard. We have the best unemployment insurance in the USA. People can get $790 a week plus the extra $600 a week the federal government is giving amounts to $1390 a week those Nigerian scammers are getting. I wonder who they're going to vote for in the next election?

You mean them and their dead relatives? Hillary
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 21, 2020, 09:00:55 PM
PM Boris Johnson doesn't want citizens to buy Chinese. Will you guys over there do your part to comply?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/uk-pm-johnson-orders-for-plans-to-end-reliance-on-chinese-imports-the-times/ar-BB14qVRT?ocid=spartanntp

Although China reports only 82 active cases for the entire country and no deaths for a long time, they place 108 million people under lockdown.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-18/over-100-million-in-china-s-northeast-thrown-back-under-lockdown
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 21, 2020, 10:43:39 PM
FAKE NEWS alert .. Billy's lying

PM Boris Johnson doesn't want citizens to buy Chinese. Will you guys over there do your part to comply?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/uk-pm-johnson-orders-for-plans-to-end-reliance-on-chinese-imports-the-times/ar-BB14qVRT?ocid=spartanntp

BoJo wants to avoid 'over-reliance' on Chinese meds and other strategic imports... Why misrepresent folks words, BillyB ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 22, 2020, 12:16:05 AM

Moby is upset about the thought of having to stop buying Chinese. Of course Boris can't tell the citizens what to do. He can set an example that you aren't liking. He's going to roll back the amount of your tax dollars going to China. Are you going to participate in "project defend" or continue to help hostile nations?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 22, 2020, 12:55:24 AM
I will stop buying McDonalds. and KFC on the request of BillyB.  >:D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 22, 2020, 01:52:56 AM

It wasn’t until Americans began coming back from Europe that all hell broke loose. Of course you already knew the reason why, right?

Do you think what the Italian government did was cool by ignoring the early cases in November so as not to offend your overlords?

Could well have caught it and brought it back to Europe myself during my return travels from the US late last year, who knows.. All airports were packed.  We'll know more as time goes by as this bug has been around longer than we thought and flying under the radar during influenza season for some time.  Ignoring? without a test available and a few obscure reports before the word Covid-19 was coined? Not every case of influenza is tested, go home, take an aspirin and call if it gets worse. Yeah right, a sure deliberate attempt to infect the world and give Trump a black eye.  Had the US locked down when Italy did there would likely be less than 20k dead now instead of reaching 100k.  Do you think it was 'cool' that we in the US ignored it for so long instead of acting?  Was it 'cool' to insist on going through the process of developing our own CDC test when one was already available? For all intents and purposes would you consider such delayed action as deadly irresponsible considering all signs were on the horizon?

In any case, went and got my antibody test this morning to see if what I caught a few months ago was covid or not.  Will get the results tomorrow morning. If positive I'll automatically get the swab to prove I'm no longer infectious gone and start planning my next trip back to the US to visit my parents and vote with a bit of confidence that I otherwise would not enjoy in a high-risk country with the most active infections on earth.  If negative, I'll send off for an absentee ballot and mail it in, continuing to be very careful despite the much lower risk here.

20 bucks private payment without a prescription, got there early no line at all.  This at the bottom of the Italian boot in this poor, depraved, backwards country that can't do shit right.  Got yours yet?

(http://i.postimg.cc/htR5mLf6/Screen-Shot-2020-05-22-at-10-22-58.png)

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 22, 2020, 01:59:47 AM
BC, how do you know if your test was a 'reliable' one, plenty aren't .

Which govts. are accepting such tests as 'proof' you haven't got 'it', again ?

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 22, 2020, 02:26:32 AM
Moby,

It's the Roche test they are using, I asked.

http://www.repubblica.it/dossier/salute/labrevolution/2020/05/22/news/test_sierologici_coronavirus_patente_immunita_cosa_c_e_da_sapere-257336147/?refresh_ce

Although they won't be giving out immunity passports, I'll at least know and can act accordingly.  Specificity greater than 99.8% and sensitivity of 100% is good enough for me.  If positive I'll do the swab test and be fully informed as to my status.  If I am positive and don't do the swab test I'll have to quarantine.

Car wash place is open now as well so got the car fully cleaned on the way back from the lab. They are doing inside ozone treatment for all cars as well before they clean which I thought was pretty smart.  Gives their customers and workers a bit of additional confidence.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 22, 2020, 03:01:42 AM
Moby,

It's the Roche test they are using, I asked.

http://www.repubblica.it/dossier/salute/labrevolution/2020/05/22/news/test_sierologici_coronavirus_patente_immunita_cosa_c_e_da_sapere-257336147/?refresh_ce

Thank you, BC, that's certainly the one the UK ( hitherto in possession of "one world's leading tests" - UK's Health Sec Jan 23/2020  :rolleyes:) have (finally)  ordered as reliable.

Although they won't be giving out immunity passports, I'll at least know and can act accordingly.  Specificity greater than 99.8% and sensitivity of 100% is good enough for me.  If positive I'll do the swab test and be fully informed as to my status.  If I am positive and don't do the swab test I'll have to quarantine.

I'm still unclear as to why having the anti-bodies present means some nations think you can't get 'it' , again ...  Acquired immunity and the length of  any immunity ( if at all ) is not proven either way...

Car wash place is open now as well so got the car fully cleaned on the way back from the lab. They are doing inside ozone treatment for all cars as well before they clean which I thought was pretty smart.  Gives their customers and workers a bit of additional confidence.


Ozone treatment ? Never heard of that before ..  Had to look it up ...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 22, 2020, 03:19:09 AM
I'm still unclear as to why having the anti-bodies present means some nations think you can't get 'it' , again ...  Acquired immunity and the length of  any immunity ( if at all ) is not proven either way...

That is why there will be no immunity passports issued here.  Maybe sometime down the road when all this has been proven in humans.

In any case, will still remain prudent despite anecdotal and logical evidence that reinfection should be very rare. I believe enough time has past to build a bit of confidence in that area for the time being.  Given more time we'll know for sure.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 22, 2020, 04:11:51 AM
That is why there will be no immunity passports issued here.  Maybe sometime down the road when all this has been proven in humans.

In any case, will still remain prudent despite anecdotal and logical evidence that reinfection should be very rare. I believe enough time has past to build a bit of confidence in that area for the time being.  Given more time we'll know for sure.

Unfortunately, I'm an 'expert' re viral infections ..

1/ I have anti-bodies present for HSV I/II

2/ I have never shown symptoms ( had an episode)

3/ Yet, apparently I COULD infect another - even a long term partner

4/ No vaccine / cure for it..

5/ I could at some time, show symptoms ..as my long-term partner could infect me ..

6/ So no immunity






Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 22, 2020, 07:30:33 AM
Could well have caught it and brought it back to Europe myself during my return travels from the US late last year, who knows.. All airports were packed.  We'll know more as time goes by as this bug has been around longer than we thought and flying under the radar during influenza season for some time.

There you go in your desperation again, BC. Losing sight of the forest through the trees. I thought by now it's common knowledge determining outbreaks, peaks, flare-ups of the global pandemic. It’s like a wave. Anyone can see the geologic sequence on where the virus is hitting and becoming hotspots. It is far likelier YOU and your infectious self, considering you came from Italy, spread the infection in that crowded US airport than the other way around.

Italy was the front and center of COVID-19 in Europe, then spread wide in western Europe, and eventually the US. The rest is, well, history...

Ignoring? without a test available and a few obscure reports before the word Covid-19 was coined? Not every case of influenza is tested, go home, take an aspirin and call if it gets worse. Yeah right, a sure deliberate attempt to infect the world and give Trump a black eye.

Those severe/strange cases of pneumonia were hardly cases of people being sent home. They were dying BC. LMAO! Is that what they're now telling you folks there?

  Had the US locked down when Italy did there would likely be less than 20k dead now instead of reaching 100k.  Do you think it was 'cool' that we in the US ignored it for so long instead of acting?  Was it 'cool' to insist on going through the process of developing our own CDC test when one was already available? For all intents and purposes would you consider such delayed action as deadly irresponsible considering all signs were on the horizon?

LMAO! Ask the UK how the lockdown is working out for them? Remember New Rochelle? That place became a hot point after the ‘quarantine’. The worst thing that happened in NY/NJ, where almost half of the nation’s cases are, was that it was being governed by Democrats. But even Cuomo admitted that 2/3 of their fatalities were those who sheltered at home. That is of course, in addition to his mandate making it a law to admit positive cases of COVID cases back into nursing homes and long term care facilities. Nearly killed all its residents shortly thereafter, man!
 
LMAO! Both idiots, De Blasio and Cuomo have Italian ancestry just like our mayor Garcetti (LA being the ‘worst’ in California). Pretty telling considering what happened in Italy. :devil: They were all using pretty but stupid and meaningless graphs like you do. Must be ‘in the blood’. No pun intended.
 
So to answer your questions, no it wasn’t cool we have Democrats governing many of our states. That proof is in the pudding apple pie in the eye. I noted you didn’t answer my question to you though :devil: but that’s okay! You must think it was cool for the Italian government to do what they did.

In any case, went and got my antibody test this morning to see if what I caught a few months ago was covid or not.  Will get the results tomorrow morning. If positive I'll automatically get the swab to prove I'm no longer infectious

Here’s another good example of a mindless ‘sheeple’ doing something with no clue . Even Roche will tell you, serology test literally is meaningless right now. The only sure thing it’ll give you is possibly a false sense of comfort. You should’ve read up on that first. I mean, it ain’t gonna kill you for taking it, but I hope you’re aware what it doesn’t guarantee you much of anything. Even if there’s strong presence of IgM and IgG, no one knows the shelf life, much less if it renders you immune.

There’s a wide variety of antibodies our bodies produce. While Roche’s test and a few others have a specific/sensitivity accuracy to hone in on COVID-19, but even then, it doesn’t mean you’re immune if you tested positive. It doesn’t even mean you won’t get infected again, or even stop you from spreading it. But if it makes you somehow feel ‘safe’, I guess that’s half the battle for some folks. Especially living within in Italy I suppose.

… gone and start planning my next trip back to the US to visit my parents and vote with a bit of confidence that I otherwise would not enjoy in a high-risk country with the most active infections on earth.  If negative, I'll send off for an absentee ballot and mail it in, continuing to be very careful despite the much lower risk here.

Putting criminals in DC for 8 years wasn't enough for you to maybe take some self reflection these days, BC?

20 bucks private payment without a prescription, got there early no line at all.

I can’t believe they charge you that much. It’s free with my insurance. Likely with everyone else, too. There are labs here, in consultation with your doctor, that charges $10.00/test. LabCorp is one of them (http://www.labcorp.com/antibody-testing). At the beginning of this month, we nearly decided to consult with a nearby clinic to have our entire staff and crew get their serology tests. Company was going to foot the entire bill. We were advised against it for reasons mentioned above. It could well spell complacency, etc..

PCR testing is also now free where we are. How’s that for an inferior healthcare system?

This at the bottom of the Italian boot in this poor, depraved, backwards country that can't do shit right.

Yeah. Especially if you take note Spain, France, the UK, etc...didn't subjected their citizens to what you guys in Italy did. Heck, I don't think Bangladesh did either and they're a 3rd world country! LMAO! In the US, despite its YUGE number of cases, we have thousands of beds, ventilators, etc...that were left unused. Had it not been for the last Stooge's administration leaving this country in such a mess, PPE's would not have been initially a challenge. But as always, Trump took care of that 'el pronto' Gringo!

Got yours yet?

I was going to, but it's useless for now. See above.

Was there actually a 'point' in posting the picture, BC? LMAO!

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 22, 2020, 08:02:39 AM
Ask the UK how the lockdown is working out for them?

Good question...

Think how bad it have been if the govt hadn't woken up ..?

How's your 'shining example', Sweden doing .... ?  Oh wait a mo..

Sweden becomes country with highest coronavirus death rate per capita for last 7 days

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/20/sweden-becomes-country-highest-coronavirus-death-rate-per-capita/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/20/sweden-becomes-country-highest-coronavirus-death-rate-per-capita/)

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 22, 2020, 08:39:47 AM
Good question...

Think how bad it have been if the govt hadn't woken up ..?

How's your 'shining example', Sweden doing .... ?  Oh wait a mo..

Sweden becomes country with highest coronavirus death rate per capita for last 7 days

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/20/sweden-becomes-country-highest-coronavirus-death-rate-per-capita/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/20/sweden-becomes-country-highest-coronavirus-death-rate-per-capita/)

Cool! Now you seem to finally grasp what 'per capita' means...took long enough

Now all you need to grapple with is exactly what the Swedish's health ministry had been saying all along so you won't have to be hand fed with information along the way...

:devil:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 22, 2020, 09:07:43 AM
GQB just got busted re Sweden...

What is his 'reaction? ... Suggests *I* do not understand stats......

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 22, 2020, 09:12:57 AM
Brilliant 'Pretty Pathetic', our fibbing Home Secreatary announced infections are UP...and in the next paragraph tells up because infections are down we must protect our borders....


14 day self quarantine at UK border announced....not at all closing the the door lol after the horse has long gone...

On the day when it is reckoned 30k lives would have been saved, if the lock down had been ordered a week earlier...'priceless'..(

Source:metro.co.uk.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 22, 2020, 09:20:42 AM
GQB just got busted re Sweden...

I'm obviously much too fast for you, ol' chap...

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24283.msg535313#msg535313

Just because your brain function is a bit handicapped, well...do try to keep up, will yah..

Quote
What is his 'reaction? ... Suggests *I* do not understand stats......

Not only stats...but let's not forget this too: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24217.msg531137#msg531137

So, Sweden deaths now at 282 up 182 from 180 ...... that's over ONE HUNDRED percent in a day ...


:devil:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 22, 2020, 09:35:17 AM
Sweden is lucky that a lot of people live in the woods out of the main cities.
But I doubt that their economy will be happy when countries keep their borders closd for travellers from wdn due to them not having control over the local version of the pandemic.
On the other hand, IKEA has re-opned around her causing hundreds of Germans to sneak across the border.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 22, 2020, 10:29:37 AM
I take it GQ you have now proven that a virus can detect and plan along political lines and that west and northeast coasts of the North American continent are not part of the United States.  If something is not impossible, like me causing those infections in the US on my trip does not necessarily mean it is so, but sure, everything is possible as it stands now. Pretty remote so far as I left for the US in August, but time will tell.  Would mean my parents, son and friends in the US were all asymptomatic.

The point was to show how easily and available testing is here, despite all your negative thoughts.  Saying you can do something and doing it is a world of difference so show me yours kinda thing. Tell me about your experience as an insured person, then think about the large, growing portion of our US workforce that is not insured nowadays and how much it might cost them.  Does your doctor really need to request a test? Is there a copay for that? What's the bill for that going to cost someone whether insured or not in the US? Both are free here to those who have lower no copay levels or have been furloughed or otherwise unemployed.

Tomorrow I'll know my status and can adjust risk factors in my life accordingly such as travels, maybe even donate plasma to help someone or contribute to research as a small part of this big puzzle, a number on some spreadsheet to help folks make better decisions or trace origins.

BTW, please note I now understand your POV and fully agree with your concerns about using testing companies that do not state which test will be used The LabCorp websites don't state it anywhere I could find and others don't even let you choose, much less list the specific tests used.

Quote
An independent physician will determine whether to authorize your test request, if appropriate.

hmm.. sounds complicated already...

I see Quest also offers tests, for 120 bucks or so without seeing a doctor... and another 10 buck fee for whatever.. plus taxes and additionals likely close to 150 bucks.

http://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-antigen-test

but again...

Quote
A Quest spokeswoman confirmed that the test is conducted on two different diagnostic testing “platforms” and that consumers do not choose which test is used.

You see, we can agree from time to time.

It's not the antibody test themselves that is of concern, but instead the accuracy of the tests.

http://www.businessinsider.com/antibody-test-that-is-more-than-99-accurate-gets-emergency-clearance-by-fda-2020-5?IR=T

There are now 12 antibody tests out there. Now that a 'most accurate, almost perfect' test is in production I expect a bunch of 'unspecified' and dangerous testing schemes will be offered to get rid of stock.  Buyer beware, read the fine print and disclaimers carefully.





Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 22, 2020, 11:31:36 AM
I take it GQ you have now proven that a virus can detect and plan along political lines and that west and northeast coasts of the North American continent are not part of the United States.

Really?  I did? Best read what I said again.

Quote
If something is not impossible, like me causing those infections in the US on my trip does not necessarily mean it is so, but sure, everything is possible as it stands now.Pretty remote so far as I left for the US in August, but time will tell.  Would mean my parents, son and friends in the US were all asymptomatic.

Well FWIW, you said late last year. August, the 8th month in the year, to me is more like 'mid' last year than 'late'. But go ahead and move the goal post to suit your point.

Quote
The point was to show how easily and available testing is here, despite all your negative thoughts.

...and you think it isn't here, right? Don't let me put words in your mouth but I'm sure this is why you feel the need to go out of your way to 'share' your 'testing' situation over there despite no one asking because maybe you feel you somehow you have an 'up'. Am I right?

Quote
  Saying you can do something and doing it is a world of difference so show me yours kinda thing.

LMAO! see above.

Quote
Tell me about your experience as an insured person, then think about the large, growing portion of our US workforce that is not insured nowadays and how much it might cost them.

PCR, and likely someday sorology if warranted, are free test, baby! Even illegal aliens get tested for free here, BC. How you like 'em pancakes? I know you find this deflating because that takes away your 'one up' nature :devil:

Quote
Does your doctor really need to request a test?

Part of having a good doctor is there's a synergy between doctor and patient. There's a great consultation that takes place with my doctor BC.

Quote
Is there a copay for that?

For serology test? No. PCR is free by public administration.

Quote
What's the bill for that going to cost someone whether insured or not in the US?

See above.

Quote
Both are free here to those who have lower no copay levels or have been furloughed or otherwise unemployed.

Ho-hum..here, too.

Quote
Tomorrow I'll know my status and can adjust risk factors in my life accordingly such as travels, maybe even donate plasma to help someone or contribute to research as a small part of this big puzzle, a number on some spreadsheet to help folks make better decisions or trace origins.

LMAO! You need a test that basically is useless and meaningless to make you feel 'comfortable'? Sugar pill should also do the same you know.

Quote
BTW, please note I now understand your POV and fully agree with your concerns about using testing companies that do not state which test will be used The LabCorp websites don't state it anywhere I could find and others don't even let you choose, much less list the specific tests used.

Ahhh, therein lies what I said about the benefit of a good consultation with your doctor.

Quote
hmm.. sounds complicated already...

For some, not others.

Quote
I see Quest also offers tests, for 120 bucks or so without seeing a doctor... and another 10 buck fee for whatever.. plus taxes and additionals likely close to 150 bucks.

http://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-antigen-test

but again...

Don't you just love competition?

Quote
You see, we can agree from time to time.

Knowing who you voted for 2008-2012, I can only hope it'll be few and far in between, TBH.

Quote
It's not the antibody test themselves that is of concern, but instead the accuracy of the tests. http://www.businessinsider.com/antibody-test-that-is-more-than-99-accurate-gets-emergency-clearance-by-fda-2020-5?IR=T

So many uncertainties about everything surrounding this virus, no? You'll soon realize this given the opportunity to educate yourself about it.

Quote
There are now 12 antibody tests out there. Now that a 'most accurate, almost perfect' test is in production I expect a bunch of 'unspecified' and dangerous testing schemes will be offered to get rid of stock.  Buyer beware, read the fine print and disclaimers carefully.

You're slowly realizing the very point I had been making. Taking the test now is both pointless and meaningless all things considered.

Let's just hope your 'test result' comes out 'positive'. I'm sure it'll be a some sort of badge you can wear close to your heart, BC. Maybe even give a King Kong size chest pump in case someone have a need to know.

:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 22, 2020, 01:29:38 PM

So many uncertainties about everything surrounding this virus, no? You'll soon realize this given the opportunity to educate yourself about it.

You're slowly realizing the very point I had been making. Taking the test now is both pointless and meaningless all things considered.

Let's just hope your 'test result' comes out 'positive'. I'm sure it'll be a some sort of badge you can wear close to your heart, BC. Maybe even give a King Kong size chest pump in case someone have a need to know.

:)

I was well informed about the uncertainties beforehand, just unaware of your POV when stating that tests are available but not the type or reliability of the tests offered.  As I stated before, no false-negative results and chances of only one in 500 false-positive whilst still observing precautions is pretty darn good.  Is that meaningless? No, as it will allow me to make more educated decisions, weighing risks where and whether or not travel is prudent, or my kids from up north visiting this summer, planning education next year for my youngest son etc.  Nothing absolutely perfect, but data-driven.

Chest beating and badges of honour? - no.  Just adding some contrast to your rather grey picture of things here and there, along with showing how things can improve.

I see CA new cases are trending perceptibly upwards with more new cases daily than NY or any other state for that matter.. isn't that concerning to you?



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 22, 2020, 02:09:05 PM

CDC estimates 35 percent with coronavirus may be asymptomatic. Other studies like one done in Wuhan showed similar results with 30% of infected were asymptomatic.

http://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/cdc-estimates-35-percent-with-coronavirus-may-be-asymptomatic-which-highlights-need-for-social-distancing-say-experts-184310015.html

For every two infected people showing symptoms and could take themselves out of the population so they don't spread the virus, there's one infected person walking around not knowing they're infected and spreading the virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on May 22, 2020, 02:14:54 PM
I am having Corona test Monday morning.
I go in Wednesday to have the stent removed from bottom of my liver tube that was put in back in March after my screwed up gall bladder removal operation.
They wanted me tested for Corona before going into hospital.
Wife can't even go into hospital on Wednesday.
Must wait in car with phone on to know when to retrieve me.

Don't know which swab they will stick in me for the Corona test.
I hope it isn't the long one into the nose.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on May 22, 2020, 02:27:06 PM
I am having Corona test Monday morning.
I go in Wednesday to have the stent removed from bottom of my liver tube that was put in back in March after my screwed up gall bladder removal operation.
They wanted me tested for Corona before going into hospital.
Wife can't even go into hospital on Wednesday.
Must wait in car with phone on to know when to retrieve me.

Don't know which swab they will stick in me for the Corona test.
I hope it isn't the long one into the nose.

I can relate to the wife having to wait in the car (along with daughter too young to leave at home according to law).  They had to wait during my 1st cataract surgery.  2nd eye scheduled for end of June.  I suppose it will be the same waiting in the car exercise.

I hope you get the quick, easy method of Corona virus test.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: mhr7 on May 22, 2020, 03:14:30 PM
Anti- British venom,rhetoric and vitriol drips from their mouths..just as it does from Moby on these forums.

 :sad:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 22, 2020, 04:58:41 PM
I was well informed about the uncertainties beforehand, just unaware of your POV when stating that tests are available but not the type or reliability of the tests offered.

You sure sees things that aren’t there man. Starting to sound clinical to me, BC.

Quote
As I stated before, no false-negative results and chances of only one in 500 false-positive whilst still observing precautions is pretty darn good.

For something that doesn’t really guarantee you of anything, it’s pretty useless to me. LMAO!

Quote
Is that meaningless? No, as it will allow me to make more educated decisions,

Lol from a test result that may or may not tell you you have antibodies that really isn’t capable of giving further information to go by. Yabadabadoo!

Quote
weighing risks where and whether or not travel is prudent, or my kids from up north visiting this summer, planning education next year for my youngest son etc.  Nothing absolutely perfect, but data-driven.

Date driven, exactly how? Results can’t even tell you how long will IgG linger if you do in fact have it, nor will it tell you, much less guaranteed if you are immune or can still be infected. You obviously need to do more reading BC.

Quote
Chest beating and badges of honour? - no.  Just adding some contrast to your rather grey picture of things here and there, along with showing how things can improve.

I assure you it isn’t grey in any of my world. But feel free to add as much contrast to yours as you see fit. I can understand your need based on what we’re well aware happened there.

Quote
I see CA new cases are trending perceptibly upwards with more new cases daily than NY or any other state for that matter.. isn't that concerning to you?

41,000 cases, of which nearly 90% is technically mild, from a virus with a survival rate of well in the high 90 percentile, in a population of well over 10 million. Mercy ship have left the port a long time ago, BC. Besides, even in LA, we have more than ample amount of beds and ventilators so the chances of having to play Rock-Paper-Scissors in who lives and dies is a very remote possibility here unlike.... well, you know where, right?

:devil:

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on May 22, 2020, 05:23:28 PM
The Lancet has released the most extensive study on the use of hydroxychloroquine to date, over 93,000 patients in 671 hospital on six continents. They also had a large control group.  Their conclusion:


Quote


We were unable to confirm a benefit of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, when used alone or with a macrolide, on in-hospital outcomes for COVID-19. Each of these drug regimens was associated with decreased in-hospital survival and an increased frequency of ventricular arrhythmias when used for treatment of COVID-19.




http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext (http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext)


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 22, 2020, 05:28:33 PM
:ROFL:

This guy is really starting to appear he is either too scared to commit to anything, or he is just plain clueless. Now he’s saying prolonged lockdown may do irreparable damage. He just testified in front of Congress hardly a week ago when he said opening now will kill us all.

WTF is wrong with this guy? (http://www.businessinsider.in/stock-market/news/anthony-fauci-warns-of-irreparable-damage-if-lockdowns-are-kept-in-place-for-too-long/amp_articleshow/75904612.cms)

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on May 22, 2020, 05:47:56 PM
A couple of articles a few of you might find interesting:

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/green-tech/buildings/plasma-destroy-coronavirus-air-hvac-systems

http://spectrum.ieee.org/the-human-os/biomedical/diagnostics/testing-tests-which-covid19-tests-are-most-accurate

FIND in February announced a call to manufacturers to submit their tests for evaluation. In exchange, the manufacturers get a global stamp of independent evaluation, and a listing on FIND’s pipeline. Manufacturers have submitted more than 300 tests, and FIND today posted the results of the first five it has evaluated.

All five achieved 100 percent clinical sensitivity on positive samples, and at least 96 percent specificity on negative samples. The tests were submitted by KH Medical, SD Biosensor, BGI Health, DAAN Gene, and Tib Molbiol. Each company submitted a molecular test that detects the presence of viral genetic material.

FIND evaluates tests that meet their criteria on a first-come, first-served basis. The five tests described today were the first to arrive, Kelly-Cirino says. She aims to post performance data for two or three more tests each week for the foreseeable future.


Several related  links on those pages.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 22, 2020, 06:20:32 PM

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/green-tech/buildings/plasma-destroy-coronavirus-air-hvac-systems


Plasma is expensive. I use rotating lasers and when the plasma goes out, it's expensive to replace. Some restaurants and other businesses are upgrading their HVAC systems with HEPA filters which can catch most viruses and UV light.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 22, 2020, 08:46:35 PM
You sure sees things that aren’t there man. Starting to sound clinical to me, BC.

In plain English: I'm confident that antibodies (if I have them) may help in the future if I am exposed to this bug.  Evidence is pointing in this direction and trials are underway.  Until now, antibody tests were too unreliable, from 1 in 10 wrong results to now 1 in 500 for a false-positive result and no chance of a false-negative result.  What do vaccines do? They create antibodies.  Makes plenty of sense to me.

Quote
For something that doesn’t really guarantee you of anything, it’s pretty useless to me. LMAO!

Fair enough (for now), neither does Hydroxychloroquine with all evidence thus far pointing to it not being effective.  Do I assume correctly you support Trump taking it despite the risk of side effects? (keep in mind there are no side effects to this test other than a small puncture wound and loss of blood)

Quote
Lol from a test result that may or may not tell you you have antibodies that really isn’t capable of giving further information to go by. Yabadabadoo!
It tells with certainty that I don't have them, and only 1 in 500 chance that it will give a false-positive result.  I know nothing now and will know more later today.

Quote
Date driven, exactly how? Results can’t even tell you how long will IgG linger if you do in fact have it, nor will it tell you, much less guaranteed if you are immune or can still be infected. You obviously need to do more reading BC.

See above. You are repeating the same thing just using different words.

Quote
I assure you it isn’t grey in any of my world. But feel free to add as much contrast to yours as you see fit. I can understand your need based on what we’re well aware happened there.

Then call it adding colour to your black and white world.  Ok, you understand my need? Great discussion progress. Looks like you'll get to where 'I am' sooner than later as those grey bars in charts get higher and higher.

Quote
41,000 cases, of which nearly 90% is technically mild, from a virus with a survival rate of well in the high 90 percentile, in a population of well over 10 million. Mercy ship have left the port a long time ago, BC. Besides, even in LA, we have more than ample amount of beds and ventilators so the chances of having to play Rock-Paper-Scissors in who lives and dies is a very remote possibility here unlike.... well, you know where, right?

:devil:

I think we can both agree about hoping Mercy does not need to return to your area.  Unfortunately, the data is not supporting our hopes very well.  I thought CA would do quite well for a while, clearly evident early on in the chart but seems eyes are off the ball nowadays in a big way.

(http://i.postimg.cc/PqpN9Lmb/Screen-Shot-2020-05-23-at-05-37-35.png)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 22, 2020, 09:53:35 PM
:ROFL:

This guy is really starting to appear he is either too scared to commit to anything, or he is just plain clueless. Now he’s saying prolonged lockdown may do irreparable damage. He just testified in front of Congress hardly a week ago when he said opening now will kill us all.


Guess much depends on the definition of 'prolonged'.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 22, 2020, 10:08:31 PM
Plasma is expensive. I use rotating lasers and when the plasma goes out, it's expensive to replace. Some restaurants and other businesses are upgrading their HVAC systems with HEPA filters which can catch most viruses and UV light.

As far as disinfecting enclosed public areas like restaurants, offices etc, recirculating ozone followed by UVC would seem to be an optimal solution.  Ozone can get into 'dirty' areas like under tabletops, inside opened cabinets, shady areas where UVC light cannot and UVC neutralizes ozone which is not so healthy and stinks.  Wouldn't overdo the ozone concentration though, quite flammable at very high levels and increases corrosion and such.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 22, 2020, 10:13:23 PM
For every two infected people showing symptoms and could take themselves out of the population so they don't spread the virus, there's one infected person walking around not knowing they're infected and spreading the virus.

Don't know exact statistics, but tracking and tracing efforts here are uncovering quite a few asymptomatic cases.  This is good news that indicates more testing of the general population will help.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 22, 2020, 11:20:38 PM
  Ozone can get into 'dirty' areas like under tabletops, inside opened cabinets, shady areas where UVC light cannot and UVC neutralizes ozone which is not so healthy and stinks. 


Ozonizers are great for killing every living thing. I got one and used it in my mom's rental houses to kill the bacteria in the carpet that causes pet odor. Unfortunately when people enter an establishment and brings the virus in, an ozonizer can't be turned on. Even if used at night, the place needs to be thoroughly aired out before opening because of the smell and danger of O3. One way viruses spread in a restaurant is through the HVAC system so if it can kill viruses there, it will limit the spread. I remember a Swiss air ad was talking about how its HEPA filters on their planes can filter out viruses in hopes people would feel safe to fly again.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 22, 2020, 11:55:42 PM
I'm obviously much too fast for you, ol' chap...

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24283.msg535313#msg535313

'Ri-ight', so we are three to six months ( depending on when this all started ) into this pandemic and you are STILL 'suggesting' Sweden is in the initial phases ? ...

How many people have to die, needlessly, to demonstrate your supporting mass murder is a 'good idea' ?

Just because your brain function is a bit handicapped, well...do try to keep up, will yah..

Not only stats...but let's not forget this too: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24217.msg531137#msg531137


My, arithmetical error is STILL your 'excuse' to 'exclude' others statical FACTS?   Wow, you'd rather not simply say, "I may have backed the wrong horse re Sweden", just because you'd have to admit I was right ?   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 23, 2020, 02:44:07 AM
I will tell the truth. The reason Italy and the US got infected is me.Back in October the daughter of our Sifu (Chinese martial arts trainer) was supposed to compet in the World Championships. She could not as the got an illlness upon arriving in China.Short time after that my family had a type of flu that caused a lot of coughing, to the point we worried about our youngest son. Also I met someone from Italy in this time, who later made a trip to the US.Now note that nobod had heard of COIV-19 yet, but that does not mean it did not exist....So there you have it, we got infected by a virus from China that caused coughing, met someone from Italy who made a trip to the US.
As evidence we would need an antibody test, which is not available for healthy people in this country.But hey, this idea is not as far out as other things floating around here..
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 23, 2020, 03:29:05 AM

Let's just hope your 'test result' comes out 'positive'.


Despite my suspicions, all came back negative.  So it wasn't me that infected the US or vice versa. :)  Will be extra vigilant and request an absentee ballot instead  :devilish:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 23, 2020, 10:54:03 AM
So, Sweden deaths now at 282 up 182  from 180 ...... that's over ONE HUNDRED percent in a day …

:devil:

This wasn’t just a case of 'simple arithmetic error'. Far more clinical than that in your case. That’s why I tagged your supporting ‘over 100 percent’ remark. To this day you’re still clueless of your own deficiency. Knowing now you’re incapable of grasping this, makes this all the more hysterical!.

Just like your silly thought process that proof of global warming is the long dry spell in the desert/arid regions. You are a Joe Biden clone. A walking punchline. A serial gaffe machine on two legs.

'Ri-ight', so we are three to six months ( depending on when this all started ) into this pandemic and you are STILL 'suggesting' Sweden is in the initial phases ? ...

How many people have to die, needlessly, to demonstrate your supporting mass murder is a 'good idea' ?

My, arithmetical error is STILL your 'excuse' to 'exclude' others statical FACTS?   Wow, you'd rather not simply say, "I may have backed the wrong horse re Sweden", just because you'd have to admit I was right ?   :popcorn:

STATS and FACTS?!? That's what you'd like to discuss?! Okeedokee then...

World-O-Meter today:

Sweden: Total case: 33,188; New Cases: 379; Total Death: 3,992: New Deaths: 67
The UK: Total case: 257,154; New Cases: 2,959; Total Deaths: 36,675; New Deaths: 282

Per Capita:

Deaths: Sweden 396/mil; The UK 541/mil
Cases: Sweden: 3,288/mil; The UK 3,790/mil

How’s these for ‘Stats and Facts’? Uh-huh! Do try and squirm out of these stats and facts. No deflection, no obfuscation or I'll have to start calling you 'worm', slinky-dick...

As for Sweden's decision, rightly or wrongly, and its been explained countless times here before, but here it is again. (http://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-05-02/sweden-coronavirus-voluntary-strategy)

Oh and btw:

Here’s a doozy! You folks over there have now joined Italy in this regard. *Mimi, mini, miney, moe. Which one gets to live or a tag on their toe.*

 http://www.dw.com/en/years-of-underfunding-catch-up-with-uk-healthcare-system/av-53266664
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 23, 2020, 11:15:41 AM
In plain English: I'm confident that antibodies (if I have them) may help in the future if I am exposed to this bug.

That makes you alone in that confidence zone. There's absolutely NO proof or evidence having antibodies for COVID-19 renders you immune. Zip, Nada, Zilch.

Quote
Fair enough (for now), neither does Hydroxychloroquine with all evidence thus far pointing to it not being effective.  Do I assume correctly you support Trump taking it despite the risk of side effects? (keep in mind there are no side effects to this test other than a small puncture wound and loss of blood) ..

I support those who went through the medication and lived. There's not ONE case, or report, that COVID-19 antibodies provide immunity. YUGE difference!

Quote
It tells with certainty that I don't have them, and only 1 in 500 chance that it will give a false-positive result.  I know nothing now and will know more later today.

A simple PCR test would've been far more informative than a serology test.

Quote
Then call it adding colour to your black and white world.  Ok, you understand my need? Great discussion progress. Looks like you'll get to where 'I am' sooner than later as those grey bars in charts get higher and higher.

My black? LMAO! Your silly anti-American everything carry a much dimmer and darker shade, BC.

Quote
I think we can both agree about hoping Mercy does not need to return to your area.

Yeppers, man! Darn great reason for that!!!

Quote
Unfortunately, the data is not supporting our hopes very well.  I thought CA would do quite well for a while, clearly evident early on in the chart but seems eyes are off the ball nowadays in a big way.

Let's see. LA County 36,324 Cases, 1,762 deaths, population: 10,040,000 (0.0175% of dying from COVID). >276:1 ratio of known infected persons, less if I factored in the total state count. New deaths today: 41 - LA Times.

Wanna try Italy? Why don't I just leap frog to: New Deaths today: 119  :devil:

Darn those data, eh? You and msmob ought to get together for coffee. You seem to have much in common, BC.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 23, 2020, 11:16:48 AM
Despite my suspicions, all came back negative.

Awww! That's too bad. Your confidence must be shattered!!!

Quote
  So it wasn't me that infected the US or vice versa. :)  Will be extra vigilant and request an absentee ballot instead  :devilish:

Self-reflection, BC. Self-reflection!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 23, 2020, 11:25:03 AM
Guess much depends on the definition of 'prolonged'.

I suppose. Considering the following:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/21/italy-lockdown-mental-health-psychologists-coronavirus

The UK recently reported that over 500,000 have gone to their suicide registry online recently.

The same thing is even being reported here in LA. Over 600 medical doctors had written to Trump to stress the importance of easing the restriction and lockdown mandate.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1286065/lockdown-end-coronavirus-california-donald-trump-gavin-newsom-suicide-death-toll

This reality had been brought up even in this site repeatedly. JustFacts and MIT Economics reported their extensive research detailing this very reality looming everywhere. Exactly what both Japan and Sweden had been avoiding with their respective national programs..

Quote
A separate research conducted by Just Facts around the same time displayed a broad spectrum of scientific figures showing that stress is one of the deadliest health issues in the world.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 23, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
Awww! That's too bad. Your confidence must be shattered!!!

Nahh.. I did hope it would have been positive, but now can make informed decisions accordingly. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 23, 2020, 12:44:27 PM
This reality had been brought up even in this site repeatedly. JustFacts and MIT Economics reported their extensive research detailing this very reality looming everywhere. Exactly what both Japan and Sweden had been avoiding with their respective national programs..

Here there have been around 50 suicides reported during the last couple of months but don't know if that is above or less than the norm (4000 per year).  Just read an article that suicides in Japan were down 20% for April and other articles saying it might get worse there.  No one really knows why far east countries are not getting the number of infections western countries are.   Japan never reached 1000 infections per day.  Maybe mask culture, maybe a less dangerous strain, maybe being more prudent, -nobody knows yet but something is different there.  I dunno if whatever the difference is could be even transferred to another country.

Guess it will be a discussion topic down the road when all the data is in, but yes agree stress is not good with some populations or countries faring better or worse than others.  I don't believe it's worse than the virus though.  A 90-day process to beat the bug seems to be reasonable whereas 6 months would drive most nutty.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 23, 2020, 11:41:54 PM
SWEDEN The failed 'experiment'

Aim: Herd Immunity and lessor impact on economy:

Result: FAIL

1/ relatively small percentage of Stockholm residents with antibodies

2/ HIGH death rates ( more than THEN times that of neighbours Norway or Finland )

3/ Economy :  SWeden's comparatively open economy hasn’t translated into economic benefits for Swedes. The Swedish economy is contracting at a similar rate to the rest of Europe. For a country as dependent on international trade and finance as Sweden, the recession is mostly a function of the European and global economic recession.

So, WHY did all those people need to die, unnecessarily?


More stats that those in bone-head mode won't like:

a/ May 21st, it was revealed by independent modelers in Sweden that despite adopting more relaxed measures to control the coronavirus, only 7.3% of people in Stockholm had been exposed to the virus by late April. This percentage is actually lower than estimates from several of the hardest hit cities in the world, such as Wuhan, Madrid, and New York, all of which were under lockdown. Moreover, it’s estimated that between 4%-7% of Sweden’s population has been infected to date. This is not materially different from country-wide estimates for France and Spain, two nations that imposed harsh lockdowns.

b/ As of Friday, May 22nd, 3,925 people have died from Covid-19 in Sweden, a country with a population of 10 million. Neighbours Denmark, Finland and Norway - each with populations about half of Sweden’s - have recorded death tolls of 561, 306 and 235, respectively.

c/ GCB's 'stats' are meaningless: The number of confirmed cases in Sweden stood at 32,809 on May 22nd, between three and five times higher than neighboring countries. But, it’s likely the Swedish figure vastly undercounts the real number of infections given that the country’s testing rate is remarkably low compared to Western European countries and the U.S.

d/ Calculated over the entire time period of the pandemic, Sweden’s death rate has been about average among Western countries, though many times higher than its Scandinavian neighbors, and also higher than the U.S.

e/ Conspicuously, in the past week, based on a rolling seven-day average, Sweden currently has the highest per capita mortality rate in Europe, having overtaken the U.K., Italy and Belgium. In recent weeks, as deaths have decreased significantly in most other European countries, Sweden’s numbers have remained flat.


f/ The death rate is notable, because Sweden has a relatively low population density, a disproportionate number of single households, and low rates of chronic conditions known to be risk factors for severe Covid-19 illness and death.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuacohen/2020/05/23/swedens-gamble-on-coronavirus-has-it-paid-off/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuacohen/2020/05/23/swedens-gamble-on-coronavirus-has-it-paid-off/)

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 24, 2020, 07:02:07 AM
Predictable.

You want to discuss Stats and Facts, I gave you known comparable numbers. You counter with colorful cut/pasted contents from an opinion article. LMAO! You aren’t even capable of composing a single coherent thought of your own to support your point. You are proving my observation valid that your mental comprehension and function is clinically deficient. Continued deterioration, if left on its own, will be progressively rapid.

The U.K. is in a mandated lockdown vs Sweden’s largely volunteered lockdown, comparable stats and factual numbers more than speaks for itself.

For now, I’ll refrain from dubbing you the worm or slinkydick, but you’re certainly making this very difficult to contain.

Btw, no comment on this ‘fact’?

http://m.dw.com/en/years-of-underfunding-catch-up-with-uk-healthcare-system/av-53266664
Fast forward to the 2:30 mark on the video.

Curious because despite present Swedish condition, icu beds and equipment are still way above demands. Conversely, despite your strict lockdown, you’re rejecting treatments to treatable patients due to serious lacking in your healthcare. What’s up with that?

:devil:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 24, 2020, 07:11:37 AM
Here there have been around 50 suicides reported during the last couple of months but don't know if that is above or less than the norm (4000 per year).  Just read an article that suicides in Japan were down 20% for April and other articles saying it might get worse there.  No one really knows why far east countries are not getting the number of infections western countries are.   Japan never reached 1000 infections per day.  Maybe mask culture, maybe a less dangerous strain, maybe being more prudent, -nobody knows yet but something is different there.  I dunno if whatever the difference is could be even transferred to another country.

Guess it will be a discussion topic down the road when all the data is in, but yes agree stress is not good with some populations or countries faring better or worse than others.  I don't believe it's worse than the virus though.  A 90-day process to beat the bug seems to be reasonable whereas 6 months would drive most nutty.

I’m interested in Japan and So Korean situation too. My suspicion lies more in the side of the strain not being as deadly as the one that hit Europe.

There’s so much variables surrounding this pandemic that it would render any conclusion now is simply grossly premature. There will be plenty enough time in the future where all of these will make better sense.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 24, 2020, 08:20:07 AM
Predictable.

In that your misrepresentations would be busted ..?  Quite...

You want to discuss Stats and Facts, I gave you known comparable numbers. You counter with colorful cut/pasted contents from an opinion article.[/quote]

Which FACT from the 'opinion' article do you 'dispute? ' ..

The U.K. is in a mandated lockdown

Actually, NO, it's not ... It should be .. The English are running willy nilly all over England during this Bank Holiday ...Your mistake is thinking I agree with the PM's policy ..

It was implemented LATE ..they were GOING to try a Sweden - until they wised up .. too late


vs Sweden’s largely volunteered lockdown, comparable stats and factual numbers more than speaks for itself.

Indeed .. let's compare Sweden's neighbours ......OH, but you don't want to acknowledge the MASSIVE disparity in deaths in similar population make-ups .. The UK is like Belgium and Netherlands ..VERY high population density and the cities are close together... 

Trying to compare apples and oranges another FAIL on your part ..


For now, I’ll refrain from dubbing you the worm or slinkydick, but you’re certainly making this very difficult to contain.

Give it your 'best shot' .. given your 'success' in making your 'case' for unnecessary murder

Btw, no comment on this ‘fact’?

http://m.dw.com/en/years-of-underfunding-catch-up-with-uk-healthcare-system/av-53266664
Fast forward to the 2:30 mark on the video.

What do you want me to say?  I agree with you.. there has been .. you're not debating with an unthinking patriot... FAIL


Curious because despite present Swedish condition, icu beds and equipment are still way above demands. Conversely, despite your strict lockdown, you’re rejecting treatments to treatable patients due to serious lacking in your healthcare. What’s up with that?

:devil:

Please tell us all where in the UK your last statement applies.

Sweden does indeed have a great social healthcare system and old folks were not availed of it ..to remind you...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52704836 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52704836)

Care home residents account for nearly half of deaths linked to Covid-19 in Sweden. Some healthcare workers believe an institutional reluctance to admit patients to hospital is costing lives

"We did not manage to protect the most vulnerable people, the most elderly, despite our best intentions," Prime Minister Stefan Löfven admitted last week.

'We were told not to send them in'
"They told us that we shouldn't send anyone to the hospital, even if they may be 65 and have many years to live. We were told not to send them in," says Latifa Löfvenberg, a nurse who worked in several care homes around Gävle, north of Stockholm, at the beginning of the pandemic.


(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/ADFF/production/_112334544_latifalfvenberg-creditbenoitderrier.jpg)

You see, GQB... little things like FACTS  just keep on bursting your bubble

Do get back to us on the points YOU missed ..

1/ Economy as weak / slow as neighbours

2/ TEN times the death rates of Norway and Finland

3/ Swedes don't even have any more 'antibodies present' percentage than lock-down nations ..

SO.. AGAIN ... WHY did all those folks die, needlessly ...

WHY are you STILL in favour of such a policy . ?  'Herd immunity'  ?:popcorn:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 24, 2020, 10:25:17 AM
One sad fact is we'll have reached, and passed 100,000 deaths on Memorial Day.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 24, 2020, 10:28:30 AM
In that your misrepresentations would be busted ..?  Quite...

I thought it was simple enough, yet you still couldn't comprehend. Predictable that you would easily resort to an opinion article.

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Which FACT from the 'opinion' article do you 'dispute? ' ..

Facts from an *opinion article*? You can't possibly be this dense!!! Anyone can extricate bits of information to structure an intended result. With that in mind, the bits of information laid out in your opinion article is justthat, an opinion. Nothing to do with stats and facts in the overall effect of the pandemic.

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Actually, NO, it's not ... It should be .. The English are running willy nilly all over England during this Bank Holiday

Then why does your government levying fine, then?

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...Your mistake is thinking I agree with the PM's policy ..

Deflection #2,367! Quote where I made this statement?

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It was implemented LATE ..they were GOING to try a Sweden - until they wised up .. too late

It was implemented early March, yet the spike is still in an upward trend.

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Indeed .. let's compare Sweden's neighbours ......OH, but you don't want to acknowledge the MASSIVE disparity in deaths in similar population make-ups .. The UK is like Belgium and Netherlands ..VERY high population density and the cities are close together...

Yet you compare Sweden to nations with half of its population. LMAO!

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Trying to compare apples and oranges another FAIL on your part ..

Mirror, mirror on the wall.

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Give it your 'best shot' .. given your 'success' in making your 'case' for unnecessary murder

With you? :devil: I can do it in my sleep.

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What do you want me to say?  I agree with you.. there has been .. you're not debating with an unthinking patriot... FAIL

Exactly! There's nothing you can say!! That was the point. The UK, despite its lockdown, finds itself lacking in its healthcare system, especially compared to Sweden's considering you're demonizing them for their methodology and system.

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Please tell us all where in the UK your last statement applies.

I told you, Fast forward to the video at the 2:30 mark.

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Sweden does indeed have a great social healthcare system and old folks were not availed of it ..to remind you...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52704836 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52704836)

There it is...another opinion article.

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Care home residents account for nearly half of deaths linked to Covid-19 in Sweden. Some healthcare workers believe an institutional reluctance to admit patients to hospital is costing lives

"We did not manage to protect the most vulnerable people, the most elderly, despite our best intentions," Prime Minister Stefan Löfven admitted last week.

'We were told not to send them in'
"They told us that we shouldn't send anyone to the hospital, even if they may be 65 and have many years to live. We were told not to send them in," says Latifa Löfvenberg, a nurse who worked in several care homes around Gävle, north of Stockholm, at the beginning of the pandemic.
You see, GQB... little things like FACTS  just keep on bursting your bubble

LMAO! Here's facts for you...The UK's care facilities' fatalities are well passed 8,000. See Below. 400% over its usual annual death rates. 8,000!!. Compared to Sweden's, if 50% of its total death count is what your totting, over 300%!! LMAO!

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Do get back to us on the points YOU missed ..

1/ Economy as weak / slow as neighbours

2/ TEN times the death rates of Norway and Finland

3/ Swedes don't even have any more 'antibodies present' percentage than lock-down nations ..

SO.. AGAIN ... WHY did all those folks die, needlessly …

There you go again. comparing it to nations with 50% of its population, LMAO! I'd rather compared it to YOUR country. It's much more relevant because YOU are demonizing their choice as though YOU, from the UK, have any significantly better data to compare them with.

With your current lockdown program....look at the graph below - not only compared to Sweden, but ESPECIALLY compared to COMPARABLE nations.

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WHY are you STILL in favour of such a policy . ?  'Herd immunity'  ?:popcorn:

Slinkydick, quote me where I said I am in favor of what Sweden is doing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 24, 2020, 10:33:29 AM
I’m interested in Japan and So Korean situation too. My suspicion lies more in the side of the strain not being as deadly as the one that hit Europe.

My thoughts tend to lean in the same direction. Maybe even the difference between our east and west coast - for the time being.  All bets off when folks start travelling back and forth in numbers.

There’s so much variables surrounding this pandemic that it would render any conclusion now is simply grossly premature. There will be plenty enough time in the future where all of these will make better sense.
[/quote]

Indeed.  At this time we only have one solution that seems to be effective.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 24, 2020, 10:37:03 AM
One sad fact is we'll have reached, and passed 100,000 deaths on Memorial Day.


That number was going to be reached no matter what. Better done on Memorial day than any other. In 10 years we lost 58,000 Americans in the Vietnam war. In a matter of a few months we lose 100K Americans to the Chinese virus. We're losing more American per day average than any war we've been in but it doesn't feel like a war. Without a vaccine or immunity, we'll have to just get used to this way of life and enjoy a shorter life since the virus reduces our life span by 12 years.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 24, 2020, 11:12:00 AM
SWEDEN The failed 'experiment'

Aim: Herd Immunity and lessor impact on economy:



Interesting data on deaths yet you say the economy has fared no "better" than other European nations. 

What do you mean by "exposure?"   Is that positive tests?  That is not the same as the usual meaning of   "exposure" in public health terms, come into contact with an agent (pathogen, toxic substance, ...), such as drinking contaminated water.  You say the percentage is based on modeling -  that should make eyes roll.  Just make sure your data are indeed comparable with other nations - we have seen ample cases of where people have been wrong about much with this disease. 

One statistic you did not mention but does need to be considered:  what are Sweden's federal expenditures for unemployment, relief, stimulus, etc. compared with other European nations. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 24, 2020, 11:22:10 AM
As I have followed the pandemic since its start,  Churchill's "end of the beginning" words now come to mind.

Today I watched an interview with the Asst Director of WHO.  He says we are still in the beginning.  He's correct.   There are billions in the world where the virus has yet to reach their shores in force.  And few of these billions have the healthcare resources of the US and Europe. 

I don't know why these other nations have so far mostly experienced smaller number of outbreaks.  Let's hope it stays that way. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 24, 2020, 11:37:00 AM
I don't know why these other nations have so far mostly experienced smaller number of outbreaks.  Let's hope it stays that way.


My guess is many nations in South America and Africa doesn't have as much business, tourism and family ties with China compared to America and Europe. But it's a matter of time. Russia, Brazil and Ecuador are experiencing big outbreaks. There's probably more nations that are experiencing outbreaks but they aren't telling. A regional leader in Ecuador said their region is overwhelmed with dead bodies but it isn't reflected in the nations total amount of deaths.

In a matter of months, 1 out of every 800 people in the nation of San Marino, 1 out of every 1250 Belgians, and 1 out of every 665 New Yorkers are dead from the virus. If they didn't take action, it would be more and at the end of the year, at least one out of every 100 citizens would be dead and some of the survivors will have organ damage that will decrease their lifespans.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 24, 2020, 12:32:28 PM
I thought it was simple enough, yet you still couldn't comprehend. Predictable that you would easily resort to an opinion article.

Second time ... which FACT, that  ( if you paid attention ) is referenced do you 'dispute'?

There's nothing you can say!!

You just makin' noise, now .. 

The UK, despite its lockdown, finds itself lacking in its healthcare system, especially compared to Sweden's considering you're demonizing them for their methodology and system.

Also, once again... The UK, like the US, reacted FAR too late ... but you are too 'patriotic' to admit the twat you voted for is mishandling this crisis.

The UK's care facilities' fatalities are well passed 8,000. See Below. 400% over its usual annual death rates. 8,000!!. Compared to Sweden's, if 50% of its total death count is what your totting, over 300%!! LMAO!

'LMAO' ?  You are a strange person ... the UK's govt has got this SO wrong.. What part of your bone-head skull will allow this to sink in ..  You can be as rude about 'my' nations planning as you like .. They have handled this poorly and the UK death rates are FAR higher than your 'stats'

There you go again. comparing it to nations with 50% of its population, LMAO!
  .


..and physically, joined , with a similar social healthcare system, population density ...
..  You're FAILING...

I'd rather compared it to YOUR country. It's much more relevant because YOU are demonizing their choice as though YOU, from the UK, have any significantly better data to compare them with.

Which one ... ?  I'm legally resident of Cyprus ... who locked down hard ... Ireland, another nation where I hold citizenship...

With your current lockdown program....look at the graph below - not only compared to Sweden,

Yup, Norway and Finland - DIRECTLY comparable to Sweden ... and doing the RIGHT thing

So,

1/ you can't deal with the economic aspect..Sweden is not at an advantage

2/ a FAIL on the whole reasoning for Sweden's approach ( 'herd immunity' )IT KILLED FAR MORE PEOPLE

3/ you don't WANT to compare Sweden with Norway, Finland and Denmark ( her closest neighbours ) because it BUSTS you, once more...

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: ML on May 24, 2020, 01:05:58 PM
As I have followed the pandemic since its start,  Churchill's "end of the beginning" words now come to mind.

Today I watched an interview with the Asst Director of WHO.  He says we are still in the beginning.  He's correct.   There are billions in the world where the virus has yet to reach their shores in force.  And few of these billions have the healthcare resources of the US and Europe. 

I don't know why these other nations have so far mostly experienced smaller number of outbreaks.  Let's hope it stays that way.

My wild ass guess is that the virus will kill half the people in Africa.
Perhaps the same for Central America and parts of South America.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on May 24, 2020, 04:10:53 PM
My wild ass guess is that the virus will kill half the people in Africa.
Perhaps the same for Central America and parts of South America.

That's depressing....maybe this will cheer some up. Wear your  mask, it makes interesting tan lines. :D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 24, 2020, 05:05:26 PM
Second time ... which FACT, that  ( if you paid attention ) is referenced do you 'dispute'?

Denser than molasses in January. Read my response AGAIN.

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You just makin' noise, now ..

I suppose this means I again proved you wrong. 

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Also, once again... The UK, like the US, reacted FAR too late ... but you are too 'patriotic' to admit the twat you voted for is mishandling this crisis.

In my world my hero decided to ban incoming flights that not only WHO thought it was premature and unnecessary, but even Dr Tony Fauci thought it was uncalled for, saying the US has nothing to worry about. What a prophetic move, eh?

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'LMAO' ?  You are a strange person ... the UK's govt has got this SO wrong.. What part of your bone-head skull will allow this to sink in ..  You can be as rude about 'my' nations planning as you like .. They have handled this poorly and the UK death rates are FAR higher than your 'stats'..

Then if you are ADMITTING this about your country, then what is all the bitchin' about? You cited Sweden's elderly took the brunt of the virus, complete with opinion article and supported by a pretty picture! LMAO! Slinkydick, the elderlies EVERYWHERE is taking the major hit with this virus. I even showed you UK's care facilities is actually worse. 400% worse fatality rate than a normal year.
  .
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..and physically, joined , with a similar social healthcare system, population density ... [/b] ..  You're FAILING...

Physically joined. What a concept. Okeedokee! Let's see: Germany is physically joined with Belgium, too. Switzerland is physically joined with Italy, too,  Portugal is physically joined with Spain...WTF point were you trying to make? Each pair have differing COVID conditions, slinkydick.

You want a more comparable nation per capita...LMAO! Compare Belgium to Sweden then slinkydick. Population 11 million to Sweden's 10. I'll post that graph again for your entertainment. Eat your heart out! :devil:

As for 'population density' then Belgium will be in fact the most comparable with Sweden in the region. Population wise & habitable area-wise. Belgium will be slightly 'bigger' in this regard, but it also have a slightly bigger population.

...and I'll spare you the embarrassment. While Sweden is 173,000+ square miles big, only less than 5% of it is habitable (http://sweden.se/nature/swedes-love-nature/). Thus, density will certainly make this far more comparable to Belgium. Belgium is the 11,000+ square miles.

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Which one ... ?  I'm legally resident of Cyprus ... who locked down hard ... Ireland, another nation where I hold citizenship...

LMAO! Move that goal post slinkydick. How many times have you posted here bragging about your silly British passport again?

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Yup, Norway and Finland - DIRECTLY comparable to Sweden ... and doing the RIGHT thing

Bullsh!t! I serve BELGIUM! Belgium was 'doing the right thing', too. Belgium have the RED line in the graph.

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So,

1/ you can't deal with the economic aspect..Sweden is not at an advantage

2/ a FAIL on the whole reasoning for Sweden's approach ( 'herd immunity' )IT KILLED FAR MORE PEOPLE

That is the root of your idiocy in this entire thing. Discussing Sweden's choice, as a nation, in how to deal with this pandemic for their society is their own choice. I already asked you where I said I am in favor of what Sweden is doing. If you pulled that glowing hot rod off your butt you'd feel better and may actually do wonders to your comprehension issues.

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3/ you don't WANT to compare Sweden with Norway, Finland and Denmark ( her closest neighbours ) because it BUSTS you, once more...

There is NO comparison anymore that you can compare cases between Spain/Portugal, Switzerland/Italy, Germany/Belgium based on your stupid premise.

So I am comparing it to YOUR silly country because you're the one who's is screaming like a banshee in heat because I am shoving your silly nugget off the floor slinkydick.

You are NOT capable to even understand what Sweden had been trying to explain as to the reason why they chose the path they did. I don't give a rat's arse whether rightly or wrongly, but do understand 'the point' that unlike all other countries, they felt they would not have to go through any possible episodes of re-infection they fear may happen once the lockdowns in other countries  begin to unveil. They also cited, while they will likely see a rise in fatalities NOW, they believe when this pandemic is truly over - all things considered - when all causes of deaths due to the pandemic is counted, they will suffer less, at the least, equally so. Sweden had always been about relying on its public to practice their own diligence instead of having the government force it upon them.

Now get this through your slinkydick head: IT IS WHAT THEY BELIEVE. More power to them!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 24, 2020, 05:06:28 PM
That's depressing....maybe this will cheer some up. Wear your  mask, it makes interesting tan lines. :D

In Socal, they call these Trikini..
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 24, 2020, 06:15:46 PM
So I just got off the phone with a buddy of mine and we were talking about how zany things are with all our favorite things to do and places we frequent to being unavailable. It's a glorious day today in SoCal, too. I told him that wifey and I just got back from Sta Barbara for bike riding. SB have a lot of great trails to ride, and most of them breaks out to the beach front with all the nice restaurants and shops. Sta Barbara is in Ventura County and they are definitely far more relaxed there than LA County.

It is shocking the difference considering SB is only about an hour away from SM. I told him I'd say 98% of the people, if not more, aren't wearing masks. Being there today is like a normal weekend day. Totally unexpected for us. Wifey got even more excited when she saw our favorite restaurant is actually 'open'. Actually a whole bunch of them are open. The caveat is, going in you do have to wear a mask, but seating us outside we took it off as no one out there with us were wearing them. Social distancing is still observed though. But it doesn't matter. We were both stoked!! It seems like years since we were able to walk into a restaurant and dined inside. Much less in one of our all time favorite!! Sta. Barbara is ground central to Uni (sea urchin). This is where most of the urchins served at restaurants and sushi places in LA come from. I just LOVE these suckers!!! That and oysters.

Felt a bit down coming back home as we drove by places that are shutdown. But it was a great day. The weather was awesome and it really felt good 'eating out' again.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on May 24, 2020, 07:15:44 PM
My wild ass guess is that the virus will kill half the people in Africa.
Perhaps the same for Central America and parts of South America.
talking about 100's of millions of deaths...I don't think so.   They are younger and more vital than the populations of europe and the USA. 

Fathertime !
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 24, 2020, 07:42:17 PM
My wild ass guess is that the virus will kill half the people in Africa.
Perhaps the same for Central America and parts of South America.

Kill half the people? 

Let's talk about Africa.  Maybe half of sub-Sahara Africa will become infected before this is over.  Yet,  that is debatable because seemingly there has been enough time for the virus to have taken foot and the infection rates remain small.     How many of those will die?   So far, case fatality rates in Africa are much lower than Europe's.     

I just fear that this could change when the winter season (our summer) hits. 

BTW, over half of the population of sub-Sahara Africa is rural.  And deaths in Europe and the US mostly occur among the urban. I would not want to be a resident of a  congested city there.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 24, 2020, 07:54:12 PM
CFR in Europe vs. US

Speaking of case fatality rates, why is the CFR in the US about 6%, and the CFR in Western Europe's largest countries is about 13%?

We have discussed this before, and it is claimed that the European population is older.  Longevity data says the difference is only 2 years.  Is that so significant, especially given Americans tend to have underlying conditions such as obesity and diabetes? 

Could it be that the frontline healthcare system in the US is better at treating hospitalized patients?   That surely is not true given all the fanfare from Europeans about their system.  Inquiring minds want to know. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 24, 2020, 09:51:14 PM
That's depressing....maybe this will cheer some up. Wear your  mask, it makes interesting tan lines. :D


If I were a cop, I'd arrest that girl for hoarding masks.


My wild ass guess is that the virus will kill half the people in Africa.


The people there may not fare poorly. On average they aren't nearly as fat or old as African Americans.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 24, 2020, 10:22:11 PM
Gator,

Simply too many variables, some known, some still changing, some not yet known.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 25, 2020, 04:03:42 AM
News from California on Sweden .. NoCal, of course ;)

http://www.sfgate.com/news/editorspicks/article/Sweden-herd-immunity-experiment-backfires-covid-15289437.php (http://www.sfgate.com/news/editorspicks/article/Sweden-herd-immunity-experiment-backfires-covid-15289437.php)

'The price you pay': Sweden's 'herd immunity' experiment backfires


""If you let this go or don’t try very hard or go about it in somewhat of a more restrained way rather than we have here, this is the price you pay," Rutherford said. "Maybe it didn’t hurt businesses, but you have twice the mortality rate of the United States. All those people who died were part of families and they were citizens and part of the fabric of Swedish society. And now they’re gone because of a policy that hasn’t worked out quite the way they thought it would."
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on May 25, 2020, 06:14:46 AM
Still haven't missed one moment of work due to the coronavirus.  I've got no intention of stopping until I fall ill or have my doors locked by law enforcement.  It still seems to me that the bodies haven't quite piled up the way it was said they would.  It seems that the virus is a very bad form of the flu that most otherwise healthy people can beat.  I don't see the virus being contained ever unless it dies out on it's own...perhaps it will be another endemic sickness like others the human race has dealt with through the centuries.  If this is the new way of the world, I guess I'll have to wear a mask and be a little more careful (Not my nature) and hope for the best. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 25, 2020, 08:32:00 AM
It still seems to me that the bodies haven't quite piled up the way it was said they would. 



Where we live, we've taken enough action fast enough to where the bodies didn't pile up.  In a matter of two months, 1 out of every 665 New Yorkers are dead from the virus. The ratio is worse in the city of New York.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 25, 2020, 09:19:43 AM
Gator,

Simply too many variables, some known, some still changing, some not yet known.

True, if the sample size is small or if the measurements are inexact.  Neither is the situation. 

First, the measurements are only two and they are exact:  1) testing positive for COVID-19 and 2) not surviving.  These are "black-white" statistics. 

The sample size in this case is not small, but huge, over a million positive tests in both the US and Europe. And Europe includes many nations such as to moderate cultural differences.   Other than our minority population, the US DNA is  European.   And our largest minority has a high death rate. 

And what do these data show: 

Europeans infected with COVID-19 are dying at more than twice the rate of Americans  (CFR of 13% vs 6%).
 


One would expect the CFR to be the same.   Why the difference? 

Let's examine the numerator.  Could it be the US is undercounting deaths?  We must dismiss this because if that were the case the anti-Trump media would be all over it like bees to honey.

Let's examine the denominator.  Could it be that that criteria for whom to test differs between the US and Europe.  If the US is testing more it would detect cases of slight infection, that will recover quickly with little attention.    Could it be that European criteria for testing is for higher body temperature, stronger symptoms?  We must dismiss this because the US is accused of having performed limited numbers of testing.   

I assert  the difference inexplicably lies in treatment methods after testing positive.   Whatever Europe is doing is not as effective as the US treatment, remarkably so. 

BC, do you have any data on the percentage of total European tests that were determined to be positive?  If we can not explain the differences between the US and Europe, I suggest you should somehow get back to the US where your chances of survival are twice as high. 

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 25, 2020, 09:55:05 AM
Gator,

Why are deaths in NY 1500 per million and CA 96?  Is the healthcare system that much better in CA?  Is it population density? strain? climate? and on and on.

Like I said, too many variables involved and I doubt we amateurs here at RWD are going to be able to point a finger with any valid substantiation.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 25, 2020, 10:44:07 AM
BC, do you have any data on the percentage of total European tests that were determined to be positive?  If we can not explain the differences between the US and Europe, I suggest you should somehow get back to the US where your chances of survival are twice as high.

Gator, plenty of stats for you to peruse at worldometers.

Why should I risk going back to the US where the risk of infection is much higher than it is here now and increasing daily instead of decreasing? If I felt the need to go anywhere it would be Germany instead. 

Only 300 new cases today in all of Italy, 274 in Germany. Florida alone 879 so far today.  In my region less than 10 new cases today.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 25, 2020, 10:59:23 AM
Could it be the US is undercounting deaths?  We must dismiss this because if that were the case the anti-Trump media would be all over it like bees to honey.


Actually the anti Trump media has recently been all over the undercounting of deaths.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/im-looking-for-the-truth-states-face-criticism-for-covid-19-data-cover-ups/ar-BB14yyYa?ocid=spartanntp


Undercounting of deaths is going to happen in every country. Some people die in their homes and aren't counted. Before we knew what we were dealing with, doctors recorded COVID-19 deaths as flu or pneumonia related. Leaders from all levels in all nations have an interest in keeping numbers down. Some leaders will be honest but most won't knowing someone somewhere is going to use it against them so they can be kicked off the job. Some regions in China with 60+ million people record one or a few deaths from the virus keeping China's case fatality rate very low.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 25, 2020, 11:43:17 AM
Gator,

Why are deaths in NY 1500 per million and CA 96? 



Ah ha! I am NOT talking about deaths per million population.  The statistic I am comparing is case fatality rate (CFR) an epidemiology term meaning "the proportion of persons with a particular condition (cases) who die from that condition."   

http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/glossary.html


CFR is the number of people who died from COVID-19 divided by the number of people who tested positive for COVID-19.   In other words, what is the outcome for people who become infected?  In the US 6.0% have died vs. 13.1%  in Western Europe.  That's a huge difference IMO. 


You mentioned CA and NY.   California's CFR is 4.1% (better than US CFR) and New York's 8.0% (worse than US CFR), but even New York's CFR is better than Europe's.     When summing across the United States (and across Western Europe), the  variability such as seen between CA and NY is modulated.   


Quote
Is it population density? strain? climate? and on and on.

Population density definitely affects the incidence rate but not the death rate.  Climate maybe affects the incidence rate, but affecting the death rate is doubtful except for more Vitamin D.      Strain could be a difference, but twice the CFR?   

Nevertheless, this shows that criticism of the US healthcare system is unfounded regarding COVID.  In fact, the overall statistics show the US system is superior.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 25, 2020, 11:45:16 AM


Why should I risk going back to the US where the risk of infection is much higher than it is here now and increasing daily instead of decreasing? If I felt the need to go anywhere it would be Germany instead. 

I forgot to include a smiley in my "come back" message.   

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 25, 2020, 11:48:25 AM
Actually the anti Trump media has recently been all over the undercounting of deaths.


Maybe some, but not 50% of all deaths. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 25, 2020, 02:39:09 PM

Ah ha! I am NOT talking about deaths per million population.  The statistic I am comparing is case fatality rate (CFR) an epidemiology term meaning "the proportion of persons with a particular condition (cases) who die from that condition."   


Gator,

I know what CFR is.  I was just throwing another statistic out there with a large difference that would be difficult to reconcile due to many variables.

We still know only very little about this bug and whom it chooses to pick on.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on May 25, 2020, 09:24:11 PM
If I were a cop, I'd arrest that girl for hoarding masks.


I suspect she is outside of officer T.P. Hoarder's jurisdiction.   ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on May 25, 2020, 10:09:57 PM

Where we live, we've taken enough action fast enough to where the bodies didn't pile up.  In a matter of two months, 1 out of every 665 New Yorkers are dead from the virus. The ratio is worse in the city of New York.

Billy I think your stats are a little off.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on May 25, 2020, 10:33:55 PM
In Socal, they call these Trikini..

Some have a different idea of a Trikini.....
Link NSFW....

http://zoozel.net/pictures/2013-04-21/23780/7.jpg

Post composed with help from Yandex image search.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on May 25, 2020, 11:04:05 PM

Where we live, we've taken enough action fast enough to where the bodies didn't pile up.  In a matter of two months, 1 out of every 665 New Yorkers are dead from the virus. The ratio is worse in the city of New York.
I'm just not seeing bodies pile up anywhere really aside from Italy and NYC.   I don't attribute a lot of it to the 'fast action' because I don't think the action has been that fast.   While I'm sure the virus is very bad, in it's current form it doesn't appear it is going to take out 4% or more like was being projected earlier on.   I suppose in the next month or so the death toll will rise by quite a bit because now it appears many precautions are being largely ignored.  I think overall many of the people are willing to take their chances.  Their minds may change if indeed the bodies start piling up this time.

Fathertime!   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Grumpy on May 25, 2020, 11:19:07 PM
May 30...100,000+ gone
Election day 250,000+ gone

1932 again

http://www.britannica.com/event/United-States-presidential-election-of-1932
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 25, 2020, 11:47:46 PM
I'm just not seeing bodies pile up anywhere really aside from Italy and NYC.   

The simplest 'google' busts that 'observation'...

Detroit

http://www.cnn.com/2020/04/13/health/detroit-hospital-bodies-coronavirus-trnd/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2020/04/13/health/detroit-hospital-bodies-coronavirus-trnd/index.html)

If you are still in 'doubt, you can find the same in Spain, Brazil, UK, and many other nations during peaks...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 26, 2020, 12:52:12 AM
Billy I think your stats are a little off.

Link below says NY State currently has 1507 citizens per million died due to the virus. That's currently 1 out of every 663.57 New Yorkers dying from the virus in a couple of months. Earlier I said 1 out of every 665 so I'm a little off but it's probably because more people in NY died today. Keep in mind, there are plenty of deaths due to the virus not counted because they were missed or misdiagnosed. Some may even claim intentional underreporting been happening too.

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/


I think overall many of the people are willing to take their chances.  Their minds may change if indeed the bodies start piling up this time.


A lot of people don't understand how things exponentially increase and it's effect on infections and deaths. Hopefully our government officials at all levels and their medical advisors do a good job preventing another NY. for the most part, most of America has done a good job. We don't want to shut down too early ruining quality of life, jobs, businesses, and the economy but we can't afford to shut down too late either which will create a great amount of death, medical issues for those who survive it and damage the economy short and long term. Periodic shutdowns will be a way of life for all of us until we figure out how to beat the virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 26, 2020, 01:41:12 AM


Ah ha! I am NOT talking about deaths per million population.  The statistic I am comparing is case fatality rate (CFR) an epidemiology term meaning "the proportion of persons with a particular condition (cases) who die from that condition."   

http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/glossary.html (http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/glossary.html)


CFR is the number of people who died from COVID-19 divided by the number of people who tested positive for COVID-19.   In other words, what is the outcome for people who become infected?  In the US 6.0% have died vs. 13.1%  in Western Europe.  That's a huge difference IMO.
Gator,
This is also not a good comparison. The amount of people tested per country varies greatly due to policies and availability of tests. For instance the USA has 45k per million people tested, the Dutch hae 18k per million tested. Add to this the policy that only cases with severe respiratoy problems and a temperature over 38C are advised to the hospital, and you will understand the high death rate is not due to a better health care or less deadly strain, but due to difference in registering and testing policies.While the death rate is 13% according to statistics, representative tests have shown that the actual number of cases is probaly 10x higher, making a death rate of 1,3%Policies and testing as well as reporting changes by country, there for do not read too much in to statistics as they are at this time not comparable.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on May 26, 2020, 03:27:30 AM
I have t admit that I am getting bored with the 24/7 news about the Corona Virus and not much else being reported in the mainstream news.  Fox is focused on investigating the 'deep state' and all the illegal activities of the previous administration and OAN is producing a broader picture of the world but still  spending a lot of time on the virus but does have some interesting reporting on investigative reporting on the deep state activities against the trump administration.  BBC seems to have some international news that covers what else in going on in the world. 

In trying to assess the Corona Virus has been a challenge.  Listening to months of the academics and political pundits has resulted in watching the 'experts' disagree on nearly every aspect of the pandemic.  In trying to figure out the metrics has been nearly useless because the various sources of data don't have the same rules for how the measurements are counted.  Certainly not an oranges to oranges comparison that is useful.

Trying to evaluate the credibility to the 'expert witnesses' that are in arguments themselves is nearly useless.  In the one camp that is anxious to get their faces on TV doesn't provide much comfort to make a determination either.  During a very lengthy divorce many years ago I learned that the legal profession call what I call "rent a doctor" which will testify to whatever outcome their client/funder/lawyer wants them to testify to.  While waiting for my court hearing I spent a lot of time listening to other cases that came up before ours.  In one case a man was charged with child molestation and my assumption was that he was guilty after listening to the prosecution case.  When the defense got done with the cross examination it came out that in spite of normal protocols, the doctor had taken no photographic evidence and often had a broken or absent camera with him when he did the examination.  In addition there were many cases of malpractice in his 'rent a doctor' role he played with prosecution roles for the DA.  His credibility was 'shit' by the time he was exposed.  I did not hear how the case came out but it certainly left a bad taste in my mouth about how the family law and criminal courts worked.

I was going through a mental exercise to try and evaluate the risks of someone my age dying from Corona Virus. Just to put things into perspective I did a comparison of New York State and my County of San Bernardino for deaths per thousand of population.   The results were staggering.  Like maybe an order of magnitude.  Thinking I made a mistake, I went over the numbers over and over with the same results.  This brought up a couple other questions.  What is the most influential difference in the populations and also separating the deaths out by age group and pre-existing conditions (Comorbidity).

The population density questions I would assume that is due to living cramped into a sardine can which includes the use of mass transit for most of the workers.  Also living in large apartment complexes with everyone using the same elevators and subways would seem to me to be a major factor in transmission of the virus.

Trying to figure out the comorbidity factor (for me) was even worse.  Doing an on line search i learned that the experts around the world have been arguing this definition for a long time and the term means different things to different doctors, organizations and there is no international standard that makes one set of rules for how they are counted.  So from my perspective, the data collected is useless.  I am unable to determine the simple facts as to how my medical condition relates to the causes of the Covid-19 death figures. 

About 15 years ago I had a heart attack in the local hospital (thanks to a quack that caused it).  I ended up having a stent installed.  I have annual stress-echocardiogram tests which results in my present heart condition to be 100-125% for my age.  No problems with my heart whatsover.  In fact the portion of the heart muscle has seemed to regenerate almost 100%.  Since I pass the treadmill and echocardiogram at 100% the question I ask myself is.....Do I have an underlying health condition that places me in the high risk category?  I cannot find any data on comorbidity that defines it one way or the other.  What about Diabetes type 2.  I take Metformin which has no side affects (for me) and my blood panel tests show the results well within the 'normal' range.  Same thing for blood pressure.  Totally withing normal range.  Same thing for Cholesterol.  So what the hell do these risk factors mean when your medications, exercise and diet put all of your parameters in the normal range?  Are you at a higher risk category or not?

The answer to that question has a personal affect on my lifestyle.  If I am in a high risk of death if I catch the virus, then I will have to adjust my personal life to continue to self quarantine and be especially careful at my workplace as well as going out to stores, etc  OR if my risks are no worse than anyone else in the large age groups, then I could shrug it off with minimal complications like a common flu.  It is clear to me that since the medical profession is still arguing about nearly every facet of the virus, there just isn't any conclusive evidence to answer the questions.  As BC  stated, there are so many variables in reporting and differences in medical opinions I am beginning to think we still don't know much about this virus.

Another thought came to mind about how to combat the virus and protect as many people as possible.  What about a different approach and instead of trying to isolate the population in general (stay at home), what about isolating the vulnerable and letting the virus take it's course with most recovering with flu symptoms and not even requiring hospitalization?

I have my doubts about the effectiveness of mass testing.  With the exception of those medical personnel that treat the most vulnerable, what is the use of testing the public at large?  The idea of contact tracing is ridiculous.  The virus spreads so easily and it has an incubation period of a week or two the test results are already obsolete by the following day.  Trying to contact trace the people that go through any checkout stand at a supermarket is stupid and a waste of time and money.

Perhaps the 'herd immunity' idea while also isolating the people most at risk would be a more practical approach.

You thoughts?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 26, 2020, 04:42:32 AM


Perhaps the 'herd immunity' idea while also isolating the people most at risk would be a more practical approach.



'herd immunity' ? You mean like Sweden ?  Like that's working out well for them deaths wise and few people in Stockholm seem to have the antibodies present ( just over 7%. last week)

Then who assuming that gives immunity ?


We are still fumbling around in the dark, yet some folks think we should go back to 'normal' ..?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 26, 2020, 06:05:08 AM
In addition, we don't know how many of the tests marked performed are retesting to clear folks that had Covid to make sure they are now clear.

Here in Italy around 1/3 of total tests performed are re-testing those that were infected to give them the all-clear.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 26, 2020, 06:52:47 AM
Calmissile,

The only thing we pretty much know is how different countries have handled things and the effects of their actions thus far.

Italy, caught with pants down, via a 45-day hard lockdown followed by 45 days of step by step re-opening has been able to drop levels of new infections to a few hundred per day, well within the range of 'search, seek, destroy' tracking methods that are now uncovering asymptomatic cases. Inter-regional / international travel is still not possible unless absolutely necessary.  High number of dead.

(http://i.postimg.cc/zDyJdQzQ/Screen-Shot-2020-05-26-at-15-11-42.png)

Spain seems less prepared and got hit very hard, maybe more so than Italy.  Their main method was hard lockdown followed by testing.  High number of dead.

(http://i.postimg.cc/MThg3dtk/Screen-Shot-2020-05-26-at-15-12-05.png)

Germany had a couple of weeks more than Italy to react.  First, they isolated the most vulnerable, elderly, elderly homes etc followed by testing, testing and isolating along with 'corona taxies' that would visit and monitor those infected and make arrangements for hospitalization when needed.  This avoided filled waiting and emergency rooms. Monitoring closely folks staying at home allowed them to be hospitalized before they became critical, which may well have prevented many deaths.  They did have a relatively short lockdown period when the numbers went down.  All in all, the best results we have seen in EU. Low number of dead.

(http://i.postimg.cc/MTR9Hx04/Screen-Shot-2020-05-26-at-15-12-21.png)

France, is well France... lots unknown there but believe mainly long lockdown as reported by friends there. Their numbers have come down as well. High number of dead

(http://i.postimg.cc/h4105229/Screen-Shot-2020-05-26-at-15-13-16.png)

Greece, a bit isolated from the mainland has also done very well getting their numbers down and managing new infections. Low number of dead.

(http://i.postimg.cc/ydBZhH42/Screen-Shot-2020-05-26-at-15-12-46.png)

UK, took a very different approach, seemingly 'let it come on' bravado, semi lockdowns late in the game as well as late testing. Very high deaths and protracted 'curve' much longer than other EU countries.

(http://i.postimg.cc/dVykz1Jz/Screen-Shot-2020-05-26-at-15-22-02.png)

US, well is what it is.  A patchwork quilt of good measures or none.  High number of deaths and again very protracted curve that looks like it could go on forever and ever.

(http://i.postimg.cc/D03n429b/Screen-Shot-2020-05-26-at-15-25-46.png)

The only things I can draw from all this is that Germany has managed the crisis very well, with a short lockdown period but with very upfront and proactive early testing, isolation of elderly/risk groups along with doctors in the field monitoring folks at home and hauling them off to hospital when deemed necessary or if not improving.  This kept folks away from hospitals and preventing a surge.  Folks could be directly dispatched to one facility with capacity instead of having to be shuffled between hospitals.

Most of EU is now phasing back into a new normal life with relatively low risk of infections with numbers of infections that can be monitored with related cases sought out.  (except UK)

For the rest, draw your own conclusions from the charts as to what works, and what decreases the risk of getting infected.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 26, 2020, 07:38:21 AM
The UK 'leads the world', BC

Not a stat the UK daily briefing will cover...

(http://i.imgur.com/wInvjFA.jpg)

We have the leading govt advisor BSing how he ignored lock down advice and govt. ministers resigning in protest at said 'advisor' not getting the push..

Look who is number 2...

Two nations that kicked off trying 'herd immunity'...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 26, 2020, 08:21:22 AM
I'm just not seeing bodies pile up anywhere really aside from Italy and NYC.   I don't attribute a lot of it to the 'fast action' because I don't think the action has been that fast.   While I'm sure the virus is very bad, in it's current form it doesn't appear it is going to take out 4% or more like was being projected earlier on.   I suppose in the next month or so the death toll will rise by quite a bit because now it appears many precautions are being largely ignored.  I think overall many of the people are willing to take their chances.  Their minds may change if indeed the bodies start piling up this time.

Did you see the scene on Lake Ozark yesterday? :devil:

LA County's number for positive cases will definitely spike, not because of any other reason than the fact PCR testing is widely available to everyone and a lot more people are getting tested. The majority of these cases will be asymptomatic but would still good since the person will know one way or the other if he/she is infected so they may take proper measure going forward.

I'm on the fence at this point as to whether or not these results should immediately be logged for tracking. We watched the Smithsonian's special last night at how China instituted their programs at the onset of the virus. It's almost the same thing they did in So. Korea, and in some degree, in Japan. They provided apps and used this to register infection zones and tracking...it's invasive in terms of personal privacy, but compelling if being aware is more of your concern as oppose to guarding your privacy because it tracks you with everything you do and where you are. It's akin to Google traffic mapping. You open the app, anytime anywhere, and it'll show you infected people in 'red' and basically how close they are to you....
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 26, 2020, 08:28:15 AM
The UK 'leads the world', BC

Not a stat the UK daily briefing will cover...

Moby,

Deaths are after the fact, even longer than infection rates by 2-3 or more weeks.  Deaths result from what happened a month or more ago.

This is why the figure I watch most is new infections.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 26, 2020, 08:36:49 AM

I'm on the fence at this point as to whether or not these results should immediately be logged for tracking. We watched the Smithsonian's special last night at how China instituted their programs at the onset of the virus. It's almost the same thing they did in So. Korea, and in some degree, in Japan. They provided apps and used this to register infection zones and tracking...it's invasive in terms of personal privacy, but compelling if being aware is more of your concern as oppose to guarding your privacy because it tracks you with everything you do and where you are. It's akin to Google traffic mapping. You open the app, anytime anywhere, and it'll show you infected people in 'red' and basically how close they are to you....

GQ,

The problem I see with these tracking apps is that those identified as infected should be in quarantine and not bumping around your local marketplace.  China was more of an 'access' type app.  Without the proper barcode, you simply could not enter places such as subways, other transit etc.  More a deterrent for those infected as they were being tracked and probably punished if located outside their designated quarantine area.

Italy considered such an app, but in the end did not make it mandatory.  If numbers start to rise, they may do so.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 26, 2020, 08:45:29 AM
...Europeans infected with COVID-19 are dying at more than twice the rate of Americans  (CFR of 13% vs 6%).
 


One would expect the CFR to be the same.   Why the difference?  ...

LMAO! The last time I did this exercise, those European panties got all tied up their cracks.

Anyway, at this time, it will be difficult to answer this question with absolute certainty. It depends on so many factors such as efficiency of testing and its administration. The more testing is done directly affects CFR. Also depends on how deaths are registered with different countries as they all do this differently. It lacks a universal and uniformed accounting of 'deaths'. Some countries count only the deaths in hospitals, while others conduct post-mortem with deaths outside of hospitals. Spain, apparently, was the only one reportedly doing this. New York for instance, at some point, decided to discontinue registering deaths from nursing homes and their reason was many have died WITH the virus and NOT because of the virus.

In some instances, politics also play a part in the way some countries report their cases, thus 'transparency' is obscured.

A lot of internet idiots sit at their respective confined basements looking at these numbers, clueless at what they're actually looking at, and will start to make silly assertions ignorantly.

I am beginning to agree to get a comparable statistics, 'all-cause of deaths' by COVID should be what every country should do. Which includes suicides and other medical underlying causes not necessarily directly caused by COVID. For example, people who had to wait to get cancer treatments and died 'waiting', etc...because of hospitalization restrictions brought about by the pandemic, etc...

Unfortunately, this may be way too late now, too. Besides, there's still that reality that some infected ( asymptomatic) people did die of causes like accidents, drug overdose, etc...totally unrelated to the virus.

This initial report is a good read (http://amp.dw.com/en/covid-19-death-rate-sinking-data-reveals-a-complex-reality/a-53365771) regarding this...not some silly 'opinion articles' some latch on as though its the bible.

This even touched on some explanation for Germany's low numbers. Whether true or otherwise won't likely be settled until sometime in the future.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 26, 2020, 08:48:57 AM
GQ,

The problem I see with these tracking apps is that those identified as infected should be in quarantine and not bumping around your local marketplace.  China was more of an 'access' type app.  Without the proper barcode, you simply could not enter places such as subways, other transit etc.  More a deterrent for those infected as they were being tracked and probably punished if located outside their designated quarantine area.

Italy considered such an app, but in the end did not make it mandatory.  If numbers start to rise, they may do so.

The way it was explained in the show BC, was that once a person is positive, that person had to quarantine immediately, otherwise the 'government' reacts and makes sure that you do (how it carries that enforcement and to what extent, they didn't go into). You'll still see them in your app, but they will largely be in one place i.e. like apartments or high density dwellings.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 26, 2020, 09:55:53 AM
GQ,

Yes, believe the Chinese app used location, whereas other apps developed only registered two dots connecting for a period of time without registering their location and sent out a message suggesting getting tested after 'contact'.

I think a lot will be done in the future in preparation for the next 'event' to standardize things like when a death counts and not and whether testing is a new test or re-test of an existing case along with gathering more descriptive information about cases that might be helpful with more closely tracking progress.

For now, we're stuck with what we got, knowing only that it kills a lot of people, that you don't want to catch it and a couple of ways to beat the bug at its game.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 26, 2020, 10:11:29 AM
Moby,

Deaths are after the fact, even longer than infection rates by 2-3 or more weeks.  Deaths result from what happened a month or more ago.

This is why the figure I watch most is new infections.

BC,

Whilst you are correct re the latency, the stats re deaths ( which I appreciate are as 'accurate' as any nation allows  ..in the case of the UK, the ONS data WILL be accurate ) reflect a VERY sorry tale.

Whilst I'm positive, the UK's population density isn't a help, it tried the 'herd immunity' tactic, until the disgraced Prof ( who didn't follow his own advice ) showed the UK govt how bad it might get ..

LMAO! The last time I did this exercise, those European panties got all tied up their cracks.

..and you got 'reminded' as is Gator, that the US has

1/ historically, a shorter ave. lifespan

2/ Perhaps, that's something to do with the 'underclass' ' inability to get good medical attention ?


The UK govt SCREWED UP re their 'herd immunity experiment' and ( like Sweden) our elderly, in care homes, suffered.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 26, 2020, 11:27:09 AM
GQ,

Yes, believe the Chinese app used location, whereas other apps developed only registered two dots connecting for a period of time without registering their location and sent out a message suggesting getting tested after 'contact'.

I think a lot will be done in the future in preparation for the next 'event' to standardize things like when a death counts and not and whether testing is a new test or re-test of an existing case along with gathering more descriptive information about cases that might be helpful with more closely tracking progress.

For now, we're stuck with what we got, knowing only that it kills a lot of people, that you don't want to catch it and a couple of ways to beat the bug at its game.

Like all other things, any event that lacks sight and sound, people are prone to be indifferent. War is a good example. This pandemic is certainly not an exception. There seem to be no 'imminent danger' to be taken 'seriously' if people are fed with 'unreliable and/or inconsistent information', or both. Gives each one of us some notion or sense of discarding the danger or of being far away from any 'danger'.

Only when people are either directly involved, or actively witnesses the consequences, such as the app daily warning notification that danger is knocking on our doorsteps, do people tend to comply with the strictest of diligence. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 26, 2020, 11:52:59 AM
this is definitely worth a read...
http://medium.com/@indica/covid-underdogs-mongolia-3b0c162427c2

how a country like Mongolia had zero cases...
cuz they weren't stoopid claiming it was a hoax like some others
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 26, 2020, 01:04:59 PM
Only when people are either directly involved, or actively witnesses the consequences, such as the app daily warning notification that danger is knocking on our doorsteps, do people tend to comply with the strictest of diligence.

Good point GQ

Although a bit larger and a third more populated than CA, very 'real' events here really did bring on a healthy case of fear, top to bottom of the boot. I never expected the level of compliance with the lockdown that I witnessed, even here in the south which was less affected...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 26, 2020, 03:11:19 PM
Gator,
This is also not a good comparison. The amount of people tested per country varies greatly due to policies and availability of tests.

Thanks for picking up the challenge.  BC ducked it, dismissing as too many variables.   

Your example of the Dutch testing protocols is a good one, and indeed explains much of the difference.  I asked this very question about testing in an earlier post 

Quote
Could it be that that criteria for whom to test differs between the US and Europe.  If the US is testing more it would detect cases of slight infection, that will recover quickly with little attention.    Could it be that European criteria for testing is for higher body temperature, stronger symptoms?


I dismissed it (tongue-in-cheek) because the American liberals  and media claim Trump is failing because he does not test enough.   :D

If testing is the only difference to explain a 2xCFR, this raises some implications.  It means US testing is twice as effective as Europe in detecting cases of COVID-19.  This says Europe has more undetected cases  (weak symptoms if not asymptomatic).  But if everyone in Europe is obeying lockdown, this would not matter.     
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 26, 2020, 03:15:59 PM

how a country like Mongolia had zero cases...
cuz they weren't stoopid claiming it was a hoax like some others

You should built a yurt rather than a tree house.  Or better yet, a yurt in a tree with a yak tethered underneath.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 26, 2020, 03:53:39 PM

US, well is what it is.  A patchwork quilt of good measures or none.  High number of deaths and again very protracted curve that looks like it could go on forever and ever.

(http://i.postimg.cc/D03n429b/Screen-Shot-2020-05-26-at-15-25-46.png)



The only things I can draw from all this....




Draw something from this graphic of R0 during lockdown vs. after lockdown.   

(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYeu1i1WoAAO-3T?format=jpg&name=900x900)



An R0 < 1.0 means the disease will diminish. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 26, 2020, 04:27:16 PM

Another thought came to mind about how to combat the virus and protect as many people as possible.  What about a different approach and instead of trying to isolate the population in general (stay at home), what about isolating the vulnerable and letting the virus take it's course with most recovering with flu symptoms and not even requiring hospitalization?

Doug, as the California economy reopens, people our age must continue to stay on guard even though others are relaxed.  We need to do this until a vaccine is developed. 

The concept of isolating the vulnerable is a good one if implemented correctly.  Consider nursing homes in Florida and New York State.    Florida was more stringent resulting in much fewer nursing home deaths even though Florida's overall lockdown was less stringent.   


Quote
I have my doubts about the effectiveness of mass testing.  With the exception of those medical personnel that treat the most vulnerable, what is the use of testing the public at large?  The idea of contact tracing is ridiculous.


Contact tracing is effective at chasing down the disease if the number of daily new cases of infection is low.   Europe is approaching that level, and the US is far from it.  Contact tracing requires comprehensive questioning and testing of not only the infected, but those with whom they may have contacted, and then the next level of contacts.  Further, it requires enforced quarantining and monitoring.  Not sure Americans will adhere to the restrictions.  The latest Democrat House bill proposed funding the States to hire and train 300,000 contact tracers.  Many $$$ billions and by the time they are rolling out, this disease may be near the end. 


Quote
Perhaps the 'herd immunity' idea while also isolating the people most at risk would be a more practical approach.

Without a vaccine, this is the only option other than a long period of testing-contact tracing-quarantining with some continued elements of lockdown. 

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 26, 2020, 04:35:54 PM
Doug I forgot to mention the national dichotomy of whether to stay in lockdown or reopen the economy. 
I doubt you choose the first, given the risks it poses to the economy and our standard of living.    Yet many elect the moral hazard, thinking they will be protected from the consequences of not working by the Federal Government coffers.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 26, 2020, 04:52:23 PM
"You should built a yurt rather than a tree house.  Or better yet, a yurt in a tree with a yak tethered underneath.   "

a Yak would not do well in Texas, too hot...
a modern yurt is not a bad idea
my preferred livestock are geese and chickens, MUCH less hassle than caring for larger animals
and geese are the best guards ever, they will very audibly announce the presence of any interloper
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 26, 2020, 04:59:19 PM
I have my doubts about the effectiveness of mass testing.  With the exception of those medical personnel that treat the most vulnerable, what is the use of testing the public at large?  The idea of contact tracing is ridiculous.  The virus spreads so easily and it has an incubation period of a week or two the test results are already obsolete by the following day.  Trying to contact trace the people that go through any checkout stand at a supermarket is stupid and a waste of time and money.

Perhaps the 'herd immunity' idea while also isolating the people most at risk would be a more practical approach.

You thoughts?


It costs a lot of money to test and the tests aren't very accurate. The moment after someone is determined negative, they can get infected by the next person they pass by. Although testing give experts an idea what is happening so they can take appropriate action, testing alone isn't going to stop the virus. General rule of thumb, the moment a country gets their first case, it takes about 2 months before they need to lock people down so the spread doesn't get out of control. With 35% of the people infected not showing symptoms, it'll be impossible to get everybody infected off the streets since we don't know where they are and they don't know they're infected.

Herd immunity methods shouldn't be discussed until we learn if we have immunity and even if we learn we acquire immunity, how long will it last? Years ago in a SARS test, scientists figured out immunity was possible since antibodies of infected humans remained at a high level for two years and after that antibodies in our body start to significantly decrease. Some monkeys were tested to see if they could get reinfected with SARS COV-2. Some did and some didn't.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 26, 2020, 09:04:46 PM
Tomorrow will be huge! Two major events will happen. LA County will begin opening up, including retail and salon/ barber shops AND Space X will finally launch the first NASA administered space travel since 2011 at 2 PM est. Discovery channel will be showing it live.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 26, 2020, 10:35:37 PM

CDC says antibody tests are wrong half the time and not good enough to make policy decisions.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/antibody-tests-for-covid-19-wrong-half-the-time-cdc-says/ar-BB14DD2E?ocid=spartanntp


Are Democratic leaders making bad decisions or does the coronavirus prefer to kill Democrats over Republicans? Moral of the story is if you want to significantly increase your chances to live, vote Trump.

http://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-deadliest-where-democrats-live-121518089.html?.tsrc=bell-brknews
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 26, 2020, 10:58:45 PM
CDC says antibody tests are wrong half the time and not good enough to make policy decisions.

Then the US aren't buying the best tests

I'll quote from a Tabloid as you prefer them..

http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11425350/roche-develops-coronavirus-antibody-test-that-works-available-may/ (http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11425350/roche-develops-coronavirus-antibody-test-that-works-available-may/)

BREAKTHROUGH Biotech giant Roche ‘develops coronavirus antibody test that WORKS – and it’ll be available in UK by May’

I've seen a guy do a test ( three times ) as he came up positive - never having had symptoms .. So, either the the UK govt has ordered more crap tests ... or ..



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Shadow on May 27, 2020, 01:32:23 AM
One of the reasons Germany is doing well is the mentality of the people. Living close to the border this week I ventured to take our Russian products we hve been missing. Discipline is much higher than in Dutch shops, with everyone wearing masks and keeping distance.Apart from that, the long vaccination program in Germany may have played a role.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 27, 2020, 04:24:29 AM

Draw something from this graphic of R0 during lockdown vs. after lockdown.   

(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYeu1i1WoAAO-3T?format=jpg&name=900x900)

An R0 < 1.0 means the disease will diminish.

Hi Gator,

Searched and searched for the source of this graphic, but could not locate it anywhere at http://www.jpmorgan.com/securities/insights/coronavirus-research. 

Here's what looks like a good RT tracking site http://rt.live/  and it jives with the level number of new infections. This to be expected if most states are near 1 Use the 'last week' 'two weeks ago' etc feature to see how things are progressing to see which states are going red. 

To give some contrast, here the latest R values for each region in Italy from a few days ago.  Underlined in red are the most affected regions and they correlate with the dramatic drop in new daily cases to only a few hundred. Big difference.  To reach the same level of new infections, the US would have to get below 2000 new cases per day.  It is currently 10 times that, diminishing yes, but very very slowly.  Let's check back at rt.live in a couple of weeks to see what it looks like and if things have improved..

(http://i.postimg.cc/QMcTd2jY/Screen-Shot-2020-05-27-at-12-25-00.png)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 27, 2020, 05:41:20 AM
Gator,

Another interesting feature of rt.live is that it shows when shelter in place was lifted for each state, just hover your pointer over the state graph.  Texas was interesting, with TN and UT following as well.

Beware though, seems the shaded areas indicate the margin of error?

(http://i.postimg.cc/3xBtrrTN/Screen-Shot-2020-05-27-at-14-35-50.png)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 27, 2020, 07:55:55 AM
Hi Gator,

Searched and searched for the source of this graphic, but could not locate it anywhere at http://www.jpmorgan.com/securities/insights/coronavirus-research. 


http://imgcdn.larepublica.co/cms/2020/05/21180548/JP-Morgan.pdf


Quote
Here's what looks like a good RT tracking site http://rt.live/  and it jives with the level number of new infections.

You stumped me.  I opened your site, yet I am too stupid to see how they calculate "Rt."  I assume their Rt is  more of an instantaneous value of R0  (calculated just with recent data.  It is more informative than R0 which would include data from the early exponential growth period before pandemic mitigation measures.   

Quote
To give some contrast, here's the latest R values for each region in Italy from a few days ago.  Underlined in red are the most affected regions and they correlate with the dramatic drop in new daily cases to only a few hundred. Big difference.


Excellent!  Congratulations! 


Quote
To reach the same level of new infections, the US would have to get below 2000 new cases per day.  It is currently 10 times that, diminishing yes, but very very slowly. 

Apples and oranges?  With the discussion about why the CFR in Europe is twice the US CFR, even though expected to be the same, we have learned that if Europe testing protocols were applied to the US, US cases would be halved.   There are other variables as you say.  And even if halved, we are still not close to Italy's success.   



Quote
Let's check back at rt.live in a couple of weeks to see what it looks like and if things have improved..

Yes.  Things change quickly.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 27, 2020, 08:25:47 AM
Gator,

Another interesting feature of rt.live is that it shows when shelter in place was lifted for each state, just hover your pointer over the state graph.  Texas was interesting, with TN and UT following as well.

Beware though, seems the shaded areas indicate the margin of error?

(http://i.postimg.cc/3xBtrrTN/Screen-Shot-2020-05-27-at-14-35-50.png)


Stumped again.  Your Rt graph shows the opposite of the Rt graph from this source:

http://public.tableau.com/profile/peter.james.walker#!/vizhome/Coronavirus-ChangeovertimeintheUSA/00_Overlay

Click on MY STATE in top margin.....click on Texas in left margin....look at chart to the right. 

Crowded display, yet it shows Rt declining from 1.074 in late March to 0.87 on May 14.

How can two seemingly scientific sources report opposite findings for the same variable???????????  The method for calculating Rt must differ between the two sources.   Or did one get the dates reversed?  Above my pay grade ($0) to explain how. 

After reopening, I would expect infections to increase as per your graph.  Which is exactly what happened in Florida using my source, increasing from 0.88 on April 8 to  0.91 on May 15. 

 

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 27, 2020, 08:38:49 AM
http://imgcdn.larepublica.co/cms/2020/05/21180548/JP-Morgan.pdf

It says what you said it says and that's about all I can say about that ;)  I know when most countries here locked down and can see the charts for each.  Infections declined thereafter and kept on declining further after lockdowns were listed so I haven't a clue how this guy figured otherwise.  Note the 'vast majority of countries' graph did not indicate which countries the dots represent.  But ok, neither here nor there.


Quote
You stumped me.  I opened your site, yet I am too stupid to see how they calculate "Rt."  I assume their Rt is  more of an instantaneous value of R0  (calculated just with recent data.  It is more informative than R0 which would include data from the early exponential growth period before pandemic mitigation measures.
   

I assume Rt is what we've been discussing all along, can be one number today, another tomorrow. :)  R0 would be the final determined value that we could calculate some time after this 'event'.
 

Quote
Excellent!  Congratulations! 

Just wish I could say the same for folks back 'home'.


Quote
Apples and oranges?  With the discussion about why the CFR in Europe is twice the US CFR, even though expected to be the same, we have learned that if Europe testing protocols were applied to the US, US cases would be halved.   There are other variables as you say.  And even if halved, we are still not close to Italy's success.
 

Not really.  The game is to get daily infection numbers down far enough so that tracking and tracing can be effectively handled to rout out the rest of folks that are still infective.  At this time a good number of those 'exposed' from this process have been asymptomatic. Progress and confidence growing rapidly with the next phase toward 'new normal' planned for 3 June.


Quote
Yes.  Things change quickly.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 27, 2020, 08:41:07 AM

Stumped again.   
 

The margin of error is pretty wide and nothing at this point absolute - again too many variables ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 27, 2020, 09:22:19 AM

evil appears as good in the minds of those whom god leads to destruction
-Sophocles

surviving in the American Wasteland
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 27, 2020, 09:26:13 AM

Apples and oranges?  With the discussion about why the CFR in Europe is twice the US CFR, even though expected to be the same, we have learned that if Europe testing protocols were applied to the US, US cases would be halved.   There are other variables as you say.  And even if halved, we are still not close to Italy's success.   


Another note on testing.  For the greater part, tests were pretty much limited to those with symptoms deemed significant enough to warrant using a valuable test - on both sides of the Atlantic with the exception of Germany where more testing of lower-level symptoms allowed faster isolation, supervised monitoring at home, early admission and aggressive treatment at hospitals not already swamped with critical 'last gasp' cases coming in the door.  In essence, they moved the hospital ER to patients living rooms, able to determine the 'sweet spot' to initiate supportive care instead of sending folks home without a test and to call in if it gets worse.  I can imagine many at home tried to 'tough it out' and only called when it was already too late.

http://nypost.com/2020/04/01/mass-testing-empty-icus-germany-scores-early-against-virus/
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 27, 2020, 09:54:30 AM

HQC gained first gained fame in France from doctors claiming it worked. Now the government of France is banning the use of HQC.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/drug-touted-by-trump-rejected-for-covid-patients-in-france/ar-BB14F4J0?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 27, 2020, 11:29:26 AM
HQC gained first gained fame in France from doctors claiming it worked. Now the government of France is banning the use of HQC.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/drug-touted-by-trump-rejected-for-covid-patients-in-france/ar-BB14F4J0?ocid=spartanntp

HQC .. what does that do ? ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 27, 2020, 12:50:05 PM
I'm sure it's nothing compared to Moob milk ;D

A lot of problems with supply of basic construction materials here in the UK. Most FIY stores all out of plaster, plasterboard, cement, masonry products, paint, floorboarding, etc, etc. Could hold up the construction industry for a bit if they have to wait a while for resupply, potentially a big problem for many in the construction industry no doubt. Guessing other countries could be facing similar problems.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 27, 2020, 01:26:51 PM
http://imgcdn.larepublica.co/cms/2020/05/21180548/JP-Morgan.pdf..

Another interesting feature of rt.live is that it shows when shelter in place was lifted for each state,

I'm still shaded with these numbers. Is this merely a projection since FWIW, we don't really have the absolute number of total infection number? Is it prudent to bank on metrics where the numbers are at best estimates?

Whether the metric shows -1 or otherwise, how is it determine what the degree of transmissibility of this virus if we don't know how many are actually infected?

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Maxx2 on May 27, 2020, 08:51:29 PM



(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49943914401_27afe5088f_c.jpg)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 28, 2020, 04:02:04 AM
why is it every time a Republican says, “I’m NOT a sheep”
all I hear is “Baaaaaa”

what do you think the families of 102,114 dead Americans think about your cartoon?
that it makes you smart, or a fool?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 28, 2020, 04:03:34 AM
I'm still shaded with these numbers. Is this merely a projection since FWIW, we don't really have the absolute number of total infection number? Is it prudent to bank on metrics where the numbers are at best estimates?

We know much more than we did two months ago.  With this new knowledge  we realize there is even more to be learned.   Meanwhile policy decisions must be made with this limited knowledge.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 28, 2020, 04:27:35 AM
With limited knowledge, better to err on the side of caution.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 28, 2020, 04:40:44 AM
You know guys it could be quiet feedable the the virus has already made its way through the bulk of the population with the vast majority not showing any symptoms. If this turns out to be so then it could mean we had a lockdowns unnecessarily, lol.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on May 28, 2020, 04:54:30 AM
Trench,

Serological tests so far are only showing small percentages of the population as having had the virus, therefore your assumption is not supported.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 28, 2020, 06:30:46 AM
Trench do you not understand what BC explained or are you so selective re taking in info ..?

Even in Sweden, which foolishly tried for 'herd immunity' , only 7.3% of Stockholm residents had anti-bodies present
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 28, 2020, 12:09:38 PM
Trench do you not understand what BC explained or are you so selective re taking in info ..?

Even in Sweden, which foolishly tried for 'herd immunity' , only 7.3% of Stockholm residents had anti-bodies present

Nothing to say their bodies wouldn't quickly adapt and start creating antibodies for the vast bulk of the population perhaps.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Nightwish on May 28, 2020, 12:19:33 PM
Trench do you not understand what BC explained or are you so selective re taking in info ..?

Even in Sweden, which foolishly tried for 'herd immunity' , only 7.3% of Stockholm residents had anti-bodies present

stop lying (if you even know how to not), there has never been an strategy to go for herd immunity here in Sweden, the strategy was to flatten the curve to protect the healthcare system and protect the elderly, even if the last part was a HUGE hit'n Miss, that was the strategy and nothing else.

the ONLY country I heard has said this was the strategy - I admit it I might be wrong,never heard it myself -  was those foolish brits
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 28, 2020, 12:22:40 PM
Never thought I would see Nightwish come out against Moby and batting in Trenchie corner :D Strange times!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 28, 2020, 12:32:51 PM
stop lying (if you even know how to not), there has never been an strategy to go for herd immunity here in Sweden, the strategy was to flatten the curve to protect the healthcare system and protect the elderly, even if the last part was a HUGE hit'n Miss, that was the strategy and nothing else.

the ONLY country I heard has said this was the strategy - I admit it I might be wrong,never heard it myself -  was those foolish brits

Whilst I totally agree that the UK govt was ALSO trying this lunatic approach, you are doing yourself a disservice..

Whilst you've been away - hopefully not suffering - you've missed PLENTY of articles that prove you are 'mistaken'



You might like to have a word with your nation's Chief Epidemiologist....

"the strategy appears to be working and that “herd immunity” could be reached in the capital Stockholm in a matter of weeks."


IF you dispute this, I can find plenty of quotes from other sources ...


http://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-stockholm-could-see-herd-immunity-in-weeks.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-stockholm-could-see-herd-immunity-in-weeks.html)

I hope you recover from your dose of denial



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 28, 2020, 12:50:30 PM
This recent news article from today reckons about 7 percent of the UK population might have had Coronavirus, much of it unknown:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52837593
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Nightwish on May 29, 2020, 04:01:57 AM
Whilst I totally agree that the UK govt was ALSO trying this lunatic approach, you are doing yourself a disservice..

Whilst you've been away - hopefully not suffering - you've missed PLENTY of articles that prove you are 'mistaken'



You might like to have a word with your nation's Chief Epidemiologist....

"the strategy appears to be working and that “herd immunity” could be reached in the capital Stockholm in a matter of weeks."


IF you dispute this, I can find plenty of quotes from other sources ...


http://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-stockholm-could-see-herd-immunity-in-weeks.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-stockholm-could-see-herd-immunity-in-weeks.html)

I hope you recover from your dose of denial

I have never been away, just avoiding your toxic persona.

I am sure you will tell me you have a Swedish professor in immunology sitting across the table as we speak giving you insight in to Swedish strategy. We know all about your imaginary friends by now.

Unlike you I speak Swedish, the native language in Sweden, the one that ALL press briefings are held in, so I understand what's being said in those, I seen most of all the interviews with all the different professors that works in tis area of expertise, I follow this closely on all kinds of Media - and it's all in Swedish, but no -  you know better from a "quote" in a english media :cluebat:
Unlike you I have seen every press breifing since this started where they are asked over and over if this was the strategy and they everytime deny it - this is NOT the strategy, not officialy and not behind the scenes.
Unlike you I also can come to the conclusion that even if this isn't the strategy, NOT closing down the country as many others have done would result in heard immunity eventually.


So next time you want to try and lecture me on Sweden, Swedish politics or something else Swedish, just shut up for your own good. You make yourself look like a bigger fool everytime - if that's even possible.

Hope you recover from constant making an ass of yourself.

http://svenska.yle.fi/artikel/2020/04/04/nej-sveriges-strategi-ar-inte-flockimmunitet-men-flockimmunitet-ar-enda-sattet
Quote
No, Sweden's strategy is not herd immunity - "But herd immunity is the only way to stop the spread", says the state epidemiologist
http://www.mariestadstidningen.se/2020/03/26/flockimmunitet-en-oundviklig-konsekvens/
Quote
However, state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell denies that flock immunity is a goal in itself with the measures Sweden is now taking to curb the spread of infection.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/RRVeA2/22-forskare-om-flockimmunitet-ar-en-orealistisk-strategi
Quote
At the Swedish National Health Authority's daily press conference on Thursday, Sara Byfors, head of laboratory bacterial surveillance, states that the Swedish strategy has never been to achieve herd immunity without slowing down the spread of infection.

- Heard immunity is not something we strive for, but it is a fact that the more people who have had the disease, the fewer can spread it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 29, 2020, 05:54:26 AM
:ROFL:

Nightwish-

Just thought to tell you this, msmob doesn’t need to speak your tongue, nor does he have a need to be IN country anywhere to know much better about anything that’s going on in that country past, present, future than any person LIVING IN that particular country  - and that’s coming from a cold dank basement.

It’s the internet and Google, baby. They’ll even deny it, LMAO. It’s so funny that even some of these folks cut and paste information without citing its source and blatantly plagerize it to make themselves sound smart.

Don’t be surprise if he now counter with an opinion article. LMAO!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 29, 2020, 07:42:40 AM
I am sure you will tell me you have a Swedish professor in immunology sitting across the table as we speak giving you insight in to Swedish strategy. We know all about your imaginary friends by now.

'We' ? ... You remind me of some internet idiot who used to live Finland and when asked to disprove any of the 'imaginary friends' found they were all real and engaged in biz with me AND that their qualies were of public record ..

So,

1/ please inform us what 'imaginary' friend wouldn't know, seeing one of my biz partners lived and worked in Copenhagen and knows a thing or two about Malmo..   I presume you doubt the Microbiologist exists, too ? :ROFL:

2/ Sadly, for you .. one of our sailing club members is also Swedish - but living in the UK .. her parents are in Sweden .. Much of the info I get is from her ..

So, let's deal with your denial issue, re the failed ' herd immunity' experiment ... ?

a) Do you accept my figures re:
i) under 8% with anti-bodies present in Stockholm
ii) the shameful deaths in Sweden's care homes
iii) the dismal death rates compared to Sweden's neighbours ?

3) Why is it that DEnmark, Norway and Finland are reluctant to include Sweden in 'opening up' ?

http://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-nordic-border-controls/ (http://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-nordic-border-controls/)

'nothing' to do with anything to do with your 'denial issues'?

It is brilliant to have GQB try to come to your aid seeing HIS posts backs my assertion that so vexes you ...


Now, try not to get butt-hurt and 'nationalistic' and 'hit back' with how 'well' the UK is (n't) doing ...   I *know* my govt has made an utter mess of the head start were given.




Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on May 29, 2020, 08:38:54 AM
As expected with the reopening of the economy, the rate of daily infections in my home state of Florida has increased, yet not significantly.   People are more careful as they return to work and life outside the home. 

                           5-DAY AVERAGES

April 1-5        11,000 tests/day       1,400 positive cases/day     

May 1-5         17,000 tests/day         540 positive cases/day     (start of reopening)
 
May 24-28      23,000 tests/day        760  positive cases/day
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 29, 2020, 08:48:27 AM
there has never been an strategy to go for herd immunity here in Sweden, the strategy was to flatten the curve to protect the healthcare system and protect the elderly,


You are correct there were steps taken in Sweden to flatten the curve. Moby has been influenced by Western media that convinced many people Sweden hasn't taken any action against the coronavirus. There's a lot of Fake News going around.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 29, 2020, 09:01:36 AM
As expected with the reopening of the economy, the rate of daily infections in my home state of Florida has increased, yet not significantly.   People are more careful as they return to work and life outside the home. 

We began partial re-opening in the county. I think LA county should re-open especially now that PCR testing is widely available and administered. The State historical data (http://covidtracking.com/data/state/california#historical) doesn't really support strict lockdown at this time.

I was at most of my projects yesterday and each one have established those barcode tracking check-ins  which asked for your identity and likely stored and tracks my whereabouts now in the database. Just as well, I suppose.

Luckily none of the active projects we have before the lockdown stopped except for one. This particular one is expected since it's a retail mall renovation. However, our backlogs suffered postponements, some towards the end of the year while others 'until further notice'.

Interestingly, two planned major hotel sites with Chinese money behind it is going like bats out of hell.

The Ram/Charger Stadium (SOFI) is nearing its completion. While the stadium had to cancel it's first scheduled concert (Taylor Swift), losing potential revenue, there at least seem to be a renewed possibility the NFL may actually begin its season, as Goodell/League have opened up Stage I plans.

Lastly, I never thought I'd live to see an executed contract in the high hundreds of million dollars be wiped out by a 8.5 x 11, two short paragraphed letter. One of my client shared this with me yesterday.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 29, 2020, 09:06:52 AM
It is brilliant to have GQB try to come to your aid seeing HIS posts backs my assertion that so vexes you ...

Do you see dead people, too?
Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on May 29, 2020, 10:27:07 AM
Sweden’s economy actually grew in the first quarter after
it opted against a full virus lockdown

http://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/29/coronavirus-swedens-gdp-actually-grew-in-the-first-quarter.html


Has Sweden's different COVID-19 response paid off?
http://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/has-swedens-different-covid-19-response-paid-off/1857605


No-lockdown Sweden balks at the possibility it
could be excluded as Nordics reopen borders

http://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/27/swedens-no-lockdown-could-mean-its-excluded-from-nordics-reopening.html


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Nightwish on May 29, 2020, 10:29:52 AM
bla bla bla, rambling on like a 3 year old child.... wasting space

I don't dispute any figures, I don't agree with the actions taken here, I am upset how they treated this whole thing and sacrificed our elderly. Nothing about what I pointed out was in any way an agreement to the "strategy", merly to show the audience, you are lying and most often wrong.

So -  I do call you a liar (nothing new here, you do it all the time) and that you are wrong. (nothing new here, you are all the time)

and I have proven both.

and about your imaginary friends, pour them some more tea and discuss the biscuits you baked in your imaginary owen down there in the basement and and stop bothering us adults.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Nightwish on May 29, 2020, 10:31:55 AM
Sweden’s economy actually grew in the first quarter after
it opted against a full virus lockdown

http://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/29/coronavirus-swedens-gdp-actually-grew-in-the-first-quarter.html


Has Sweden's different COVID-19 response paid off?
http://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/has-swedens-different-covid-19-response-paid-off/1857605


No-lockdown Sweden balks at the possibility it
could be excluded as Nordics reopen borders

http://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/27/swedens-no-lockdown-could-mean-its-excluded-from-nordics-reopening.html

We are excluded from Cyprus, Greece, Germany, Denmark, Norway as far as I know today when they start to open up, this strategy taken here is a freaking shame.

how ever -  our economy has not suffered as much as many other countries and that was one of the "goals"
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on May 29, 2020, 10:46:06 AM
We are excluded from Cyprus, Greece, Germany, Denmark, Norway as far as I know today when they start to open up, this strategy taken here is a freaking shame.

how ever -  our economy has not suffered as much as many other countries and that was one of the "goals"

It's crazy to decide to kill your economy, to throw millions out of work
and to kill thousands and thousands of businesses then decide to penalize
a country because they decided to forgo that experience.

Swedish Model Elsa Hosk to spice up the otherwise dreary thread.
(http://flyoversportsblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/be57f-elsa_hosk_-_swimwear_for_aerie_011.jpg?w=356&h=400&zoom=2)

Swedish Girl Liza Berggren
(http://kaulakia.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/liza-berggren-15.jpg)

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 29, 2020, 12:10:48 PM

how ever -  our economy has not suffered as much as many other countries and that was one of the "goals"

http://www.politico.eu/article/swedens-cant-escape-economic-hit-with-covid-19-light-touch/ (http://www.politico.eu/article/swedens-cant-escape-economic-hit-with-covid-19-light-touch/)

“The economic consequences of the pandemic will be considerable,” Sweden’s central bank said in a recent report as it forecast an economic contraction for Sweden of between 7 and 10 percentage points for this year and unemployment of between 9 and 10 percent. Last year the jobless figure was 6.8 percent. The European Commission's current forecast for the eurozone for 2020 is for an economic contraction of 7.75 percent."


Here's a clue .. Sweden relies on EXPORTS .. if the economies for other nations are down...

So, Sweden's people will be excluded ( like that UK's ) when other nations' folks can travel ...  hardly a surprise given the respective govt's cluster ****s and failed experimentation on both the economic and viral impact front.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on May 29, 2020, 12:27:37 PM
if you adjust for population, Sweden has 10 TIMES the death rate from Covid compared to neighboring Norway
TEN TIMES....
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 29, 2020, 12:45:03 PM
if you adjust for population, Sweden has 10 TIMES the death rate from Covid compared to neighboring Norway
TEN TIMES....

10 times Finland's and c. 5-6 times Denmark's
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on May 29, 2020, 12:49:51 PM
stop lying (if you even know how to not), there has never been an strategy to go for herd immunity here in Sweden, the strategy was to flatten the curve to protect the healthcare system and protect the elderly, even if the last part was a HUGE hit'n Miss, that was the strategy and nothing else.

the ONLY country I heard has said this was the strategy - I admit it I might be wrong,never heard it myself -  was those foolish brits


I'm not suggesting "herd immunity" was adopted in Sweden (I have no idea), but that is what has been presented vis a vis Sweden, in English speaking press.  Here's one example -


http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/sweden/2020-05-12/swedens-coronavirus-strategy-will-soon-be-worlds (http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/sweden/2020-05-12/swedens-coronavirus-strategy-will-soon-be-worlds)


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Title: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: 2tallbill on May 29, 2020, 01:01:23 PM
CDC acknowledges mixing up coronavirus testing data
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/499085-cdc-acknowledges-mixing-up-coronavirus-testing-data


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Nightwish on May 29, 2020, 03:01:14 PM

I'm not suggesting "herd immunity" was adopted in Sweden (I have no idea), but that is what has been presented vis a vis Sweden, in English speaking press.  Here's one example -


http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/sweden/2020-05-12/swedens-coronavirus-strategy-will-soon-be-worlds (http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/sweden/2020-05-12/swedens-coronavirus-strategy-will-soon-be-worlds)This post was composed without the aid of google.
Yes? And?
That is not where moby get's his information, he has imaginary friends e v e r y w h e r e who knows everything about everyone and everything, much better then a resident in the discussed country

one of my biz partners lived and worked in Copenhagen and knows a thing or two about Malmo..   I presume you doubt the Microbiologist exists, too ? :ROFL:

2/ Sadly, for you .. one of our sailing club members is also Swedish - but living in the UK .. her parents are in Sweden .. Much of the info I get is from her ..

Not really sure why a Danish would know anything really about Sweden in particular, and why it would be sad for me one of his imaginary friends are in his sailing club, but I left those remarks go because we are after all talking about a compulsive liar.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Boethius on May 29, 2020, 03:22:27 PM
I wasn't referencing moby's post.  I was referencing yours.  If you read any English news media, most articles about Sweden's approach will reference "herd immunity".  I'm not suggesting that's right, just that it's a common communication in the English speaking world.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 29, 2020, 03:37:46 PM
The virus is coming back!!!

It appears virus numbers are increasing again in  India & Iran for a second wave now some time after they eased lockdown:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/coronavirus-latest-russia-reports-record-daily-death-toll/a-53608921

Appears BillyB was right about how this virus is panning out.

Numbers increasing in Russia also but the are still on their first wave.

I've noticed here in the UK that we are moving into easing the lockdown in a manner in which I believe will make it highly likely that we will experience a second wave. Too much emphasis is being given to easing socialising restrictions early. All along keeping business open by focusing on stringent social distancing guidelines has been ignored. Instead we essentially shut up shop with the gov paying people to go out jogging around the block instead of keeping as many people as possible at work. Main issue now is if we suffer a second wave like India & Iran seem to be having the economy will be left in even worse shape.

Moving to an organisation of the economy that integrates social distancing as a permanent feature is where we should be heading I believe,  Amazon style of setup throughout and less walk in and buy I believe is the solution.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 29, 2020, 04:46:00 PM
  If you read any English news media, most articles about Sweden's approach will reference "herd immunity". 


Yep and the funny thing is we got people on the left that trying to show "Sweden made a big mistake with herd immunity. Look at the amount of death" and people on the right saying "We should've done what Sweden did and kept more of our economy open". Both sides and the Western media claim Sweden did nothing to slow their spread when that isn't true.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 29, 2020, 08:51:34 PM
Yep and the funny thing is we got people on the left that trying to show "Sweden made a big mistake with herd immunity. Look at the amount of death" and people on the right saying "We should've done what Sweden did and kept more of our economy open". Both sides and the Western media claim Sweden did nothing to slow their spread when that isn't true.


BillyB

Pointing out the mistakes of Sweden and the UK has NOTHING to do with political leanings ..

As I pointed out.. Sweden is NOT part of re-opening borders and has been 'shunned' by it's Nordic neighbours because of the MUCH higher death rates.


http://www.ft.com/content/7f2d8969-4ed1-4095-b995-28915d68517d (http://www.ft.com/content/7f2d8969-4ed1-4095-b995-28915d68517d)





Norway and Denmark have snubbed Sweden by opening their borders to each other but not to their Scandinavian neighbour because of its controversial no-lockdown coronavirus strategy.

Sweden is forecast( by it's own govt.) to fare worse economically, now, than ( say) Denmark as a result..


   

   But there was better economic news for Sweden on Friday as GDP figures for the first quarter showed it was one of the few countries in Europe to enjoy growth in the first three months of the year. The country’s GDP increased by 0.1 per cent compared with the fourth quarter.

Still, Sweden is expected to face its steepest downturn since the second world war with the government in Stockholm this week forecasting its economy would contract by about 7 per cent this year. Denmark estimated its economy would shrink by 5.3 per cent in 2020 this week.



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on May 29, 2020, 09:18:15 PM
BillyB

Pointing out the mistakes of Sweden and the UK has NOTHING to do with political leanings ..


Of course politics are involved. There's no way for any leaders to get it perfect so political opposition will capitalize on the mistakes. Many, if not most nations are intentionally underreporting. There's probably 400 deaths per million in Western nations who have the most hospitals, best training and latest technology but the average of the world is 47 deaths per million. China and India helps bring the average WAY down. They can tell their people they're doing a much better job than Western nations. When this is all over, the "experts" will take previous years death tolls to predict what it should be without the coronavirus. Then they will subtract that number into the death toll of the World during this Pandemic to get a true number of how many died from the virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 29, 2020, 10:56:08 PM
Of course politics are involved. There's no way for any leaders to get it perfect so political opposition will capitalize on the mistakes. Many, if not most nations are intentionally underreporting. There's probably 400 deaths per million in Western nations who have the most hospitals, best training and latest technology but the average of the world is 47 deaths per million. China and India helps bring the average WAY down. They can tell their people they're doing a much better job than Western nations. When this is all over, the "experts" will take previous years death tolls to predict what it should be without the coronavirus. Then they will subtract that number into the death toll of the World during this Pandemic to get a true number of how many died from the virus.

BillyB

as you insist in making an arse of yourself.

Tell us which nation.. Denmark, Finland, Norway is politically more to the left than Sweden .. given Nightwish has revealed his love for the libertarian immigration policy of Sweden...

Denmark has proven to be  FAR more 'right' wing than Sweden if you think about its  migrant policy ...

This is ALL about Sweden's govt.'s error of judgement re its approach to 'combating' the virus and its FAIL on that front ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 30, 2020, 07:22:02 AM
Now it looks like the Swedish hot rod got up the arses of more people. LMAO.

Sweden’s per capital death rate is still much better than many of European nation that practiced draconian lockdowns. Are you folks this dense to dismiss this reality.

What a band of Googling idiots.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 30, 2020, 08:33:08 AM
Now it looks like the Swedish hot rod got up the arses of more people. LMAO.

Sweden’s per capital death rate is still much better than many of European nation that practiced draconian lockdowns. Are you folks this dense to dismiss this reality.

What a band of Googling idiots.

As has already been pointed out to GQB ( several times, several posters )  seems to suffer from some affliction, as to the simplest of data comparisons ..

Comparing Sweden with her physically connected neighbours, with similar population densities IS relevant ....

Comparing Sweden with the likes of  UK, BE, NL is preposterous - given the population densities and towns/ cities being just about merged .

I sometimes wonder if GQB crossed the Pacific and Atlantic missing out Europe.. ( other than the FSU) .. 

He might as well compare Alaska with NY and claim "look, you're 150 times more likely to have died in NY " and think he's 'made a point'  :popcorn:

 

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 30, 2020, 08:40:17 AM
As has already been pointed out to GQB ( several times, several posters )  seems to suffer from some affliction, as to the simplest of data comparisons ..

Comparing Sweden with her physically connected neighbours, with similar population densities IS relevant ....

Comparing Sweden with the likes of  UK, BE, NL is preposterous - given the population densities and towns/ cities being just about merged .

I sometimes wonder if GQB crossed the Pacific and Atlantic missing out Europe.. ( other than the FSU) .. 

He might as well compare Alaska with NY and claim "look, you're 150 times more likely to have died in NY " and think he's 'made a point'  :popcorn:

After all these times, he still have ZERO understanding of the relative term "per capita'." Physical connection" HAVE ZERO to do with facts as previously illustrated. Belgium/Germany, Italy/Switzerland, Spain/Portugal in terms of "per capit" death rate..

But, as it's always been portrayed on this board, it goes in the same vein of " N95 masks will choke people to death after 30 minutes of use'. nonsense.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 30, 2020, 10:38:26 AM
Poor 'ol GQB,

Keeps trying to suggest what 'I do not understand ', rather than simply admitting, "I got busted by Moby for posting nonsense re Sweden"...

Citizens of nations that have not tried to stamp out the virus are not 'welcome'...

That includes, the UK, US, Sweden..

BTW...a proper 'N95' ( FFP2 this side of the pond) device is a respirator...not a mask...





Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 30, 2020, 11:30:36 AM
It's crazy to decide to kill your economy, to throw millions out of work
and to kill thousands and thousands of businesses then decide to penalize
a country because they decided to forgo that experience.

Swedish Model Elsa Hosk to spice up the otherwise dreary thread.
(http://flyoversportsblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/be57f-elsa_hosk_-_swimwear_for_aerie_011.jpg?w=356&h=400&zoom=2)

Swedish Girl Liza Berggren
(http://kaulakia.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/liza-berggren-15.jpg)

I agree Bill this thread has unfortunately become dreary now, just a lot of banging on about Sweden. Seeing the Swedish bikini beauties is far more pleasing :D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 30, 2020, 08:27:45 PM
Poor 'ol GQB,

Keeps trying to suggest what 'I do not understand ', rather than simply admitting, "I got busted by Moby for posting nonsense re Sweden"...

Citizens of nations that have not tried to stamp out the virus are not 'welcome'...

That includes, the UK, US, Sweden..

BTW...a proper 'N95' ( FFP2 this side of the pond) device is a respirator...not a mask...

Swoosh.  Went over his head once again. Per Capita. Deal with it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 30, 2020, 09:50:16 PM
Good morning GQB,

The guy STILL asking us to compare per capita deaths between Sweden and far denser  populated euro nations like NL, BE and the UK , rather than Sweden's physical neighbours ( with ten time less) and the  data is 'going over my head?....

Here's a per capita stat for you, from a right of centre newspaper..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8369241/Sweden-highest-death-rate-capita-country-world-week-data-shows.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8369241/Sweden-highest-death-rate-capita-country-world-week-data-shows.html)
Sweden has the highest death rate per capita of any country in the world this week, data shows

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 31, 2020, 05:53:46 AM
Good morning GQB,

The guy STILL asking us to compare per capita deaths between Sweden and far denser  populated euro nations like NL, BE and the UK , rather than Sweden's physical neighbours ( with ten time less) and the  data is 'going over my head?....

Here's a per capita stat for you, from a right of centre newspaper..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8369241/Sweden-highest-death-rate-capita-country-world-week-data-shows.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8369241/Sweden-highest-death-rate-capita-country-world-week-data-shows.html)
Sweden has the highest death rate per capita of any country in the world this week, data shows

LMAO! This week! LMAO! All that old fart gyration for *this week*?!? THIS WEEK?!?!! That’s all your band of idiots can come up with?

You want the real *per capita* stats, feast on this: To date: Countries with police-enforced mandated lockdown program Belgium 82/100K, Spain 58/100K, UK 56/100K, Italy 55/100K, France 44/100K.

Sweden::::drum roll, please:::::43/100K!!!

You obsessed and ridicule Sweden’s program for failing to implement a *draconian, police-enforced lockdown* like the countries above? Beyond trolling, were you trying to make a point?

You really are *clinical*

http://www.euractiv.com/section/coronavirus/news/belgium-enters-lockdown-over-coronavirus-crisis-until-5-april/
http://www.statista.com/statistics/1111779/coronavirus-death-rate-europe-by-country/
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 31, 2020, 07:38:25 AM
Poor 'ol GQB

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/05/29/14/28972896-8369241-image-a-7_1590757869088.jpg)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 31, 2020, 07:47:32 AM
Poor 'ol GQB

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/05/29/14/28972896-8369241-image-a-7_1590757869088.jpg)

:ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on May 31, 2020, 07:53:52 AM
Wazamatter, GQB ?

A 'naughty' Right of Centre UK tabloid publishing stats that suggest a continued fail.. re your suggesting Sweden was 'right' ? 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on May 31, 2020, 08:00:06 AM
Swoosh. There goes another one.

:devil:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 01, 2020, 01:26:42 AM
Sweden, STILL 'doing better' at killing it's citizens, currently .. Expect Brazil and a few other nations, if reporting more honestly, would be 'up there' ..50% higher than the UK, which is nothing to be proud of ..

http://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=ITA~USA~GBR~CAN~DEU~SWE (http://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=ITA~USA~GBR~CAN~DEU~SWE)

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 01, 2020, 07:24:27 AM
Ok, rather than be 'toxic' by reporting Sweden's woes, here's an Article about Norway ..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/30/coronavirus-norway-wonders-should-have-like-sweden/?

..and what would happen, if there's a second spike
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on June 02, 2020, 08:20:32 AM

Document says China withheld critical info on the virus. No-duh. Also says the virus's genome was decoded in the level 4 virology lab in Wuhan.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/leaked-documents-reveal-china-withheld-crucial-information-about-the-coronavirus-at-the-start-of-the-outbreak/ar-BB14V8h1?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 02, 2020, 08:49:04 AM
What, this is not 'fake news' as it finds your 'agenda', BillyB ?  ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: SteveInBoston on June 02, 2020, 11:23:02 AM
Speaking of non-partisan, I really like these links, Steve. Good job! Especially the one with WIKI where it credited MSNBC's Rachel Maddow's show for the write-up.

And of course, The Atlantic! The publication that endorsed Hillary Clinton, same gal that financed the dossier to start the Russian collusion Then lobbied for Trump's impeachment way back in 2017, then this...
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/03/impeachment-trump/580468/

RespectfulInsolence, CrunchBase, scienbasedmediine, scienceblog! WOW! A lot of very notable establishments there, man! A very impressive list indeed. Keep it coming, bud!

I spent just a minutes on google and took the links provided.  If you don't like any of those, there are many more.

Disingenuously, you took the one reference to MSNBC in the wiki article to discredit it.  That was not the source of the "write-up", just one reference to one of the subtopics, that of AAPS politically lobbying against ACA.  The vast majority of the "write-up" is from 49 sources in the references section, which includes articles published by AAPS themselves, Time magazine, NYTimes, Reuters, 60 minutes, American Cancer Society and American Academy of Pediatrics, among others.

Quote
You mean like take ten 10 patients and administer the drug, and take another and administer placebo, right? This is what you're alluding to, and only IF the ten patients administered with placebo all died while the ten HCQ patients lived, then you got your 'studies'. Would you be one of those willing persons being administered placebo to while struck with the virus for the exercise? To see if the other 10 survives and not you? Oh wait, maybe they lie to these folks by saying they're giving them a treatment but not really, right?

Yes.  Compare those who are treated with HCQ in addition to normal means, and those who are treated with just the normal means (antibotics, respirators, etc.)  Treat each group with the same level of health care, with the exception of one group also given HCQ.  That is a scientific study. 

And yes, I would definitely hope that I am given the placebo.   Based on the studies referenced by AAPS, I would have a better chance of recovery, by about 2%.

Quote
You have people alive today that went through the process and would vouch the drug was their turning point! Do those even count with you? Maybe no because you'd say it's anecdotal? Or maybe they're being political plants? LMAO. How many people would it take for you for this to become relevant?  You're looking for guarantee? To quote Donna_Pedro, "buy a toaster1".

There are people dead today after given HCQ.  Your reasoning that HCQ save the people you mention and the studies that showed others given HCQ died, have the same weight of anecdotal evidence.

Quote
BS! You just did the same thing the data you just demonize had done. How the heck can you conclude the US have a 94% survival rate by equating the reported death rate from the total case when these are not only active cases, but many are in serious/critical condition.

You are stuck saying nothing is valid unless a study is conducted and completed, yet leaped frog your own conclusion based on an active and ongoing cases. You haven't even included the asymptomatic cases that no one knows for sure how many.

Exactly.  Mine is not a study, it is not scientific, it is just some simple math I did on the spot.  It has the same level of science and study behind it as the data that AAPS refers to.  You are quick to call my calculations BS.  And yet you claim the other calculations are valid?  Hypocritical, yes?


Quote
Here's the bottom line. You don't buy HCQ is effective because clinical trials are missing, Good! Some people do - I do simply because you have people who survived and stated it was because of the drug, with support from their own physicians or doctors that treated them. Unless those doctors or their physicians attest it wasn't so, then I believe them.

History is full of quick to claim benefits of some drug or another.  Some work, some don't and many have consequences discovered after the fact.  I don't buy that HCQ is effective because even it's own data shows it helps some and kills others.  Would those deaths have occurred without HCQ?  No idea.  Would those who recovered have recovered without HCQ?  No idea.  I am saying that AAPS are misleading everyone by trying to claim that HCQ helps patients recover from covid, but the data from the referenced studies make no such conclusion.


Quote
You believe continued lockdowns are great! Good. I don't. People like you can stay home, others can go. Conitnued lockdowns are idiotic and far deadlier than this virus will ever be.

I believe the current lockdown is the lesser of 2 bad situations.  The alternative is let ppl run amok with a disease that is proven to be an exponential factor more contagious than the flu, and more than ten times deadlier.   I think the best solution is track, trace and isolate, but the US is still not equipped for that. 


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 02, 2020, 01:04:27 PM
I spent just a minutes on google and took the links provided.  If you don't like any of those, there are many more.

Disingenuously, you took the one reference to MSNBC in the wiki article to discredit it.  That was not the source of the "write-up", just one reference to one of the subtopics, that of AAPS politically lobbying against ACA.  The vast majority of the "write-up" is from 49 sources in the references section, which includes articles published by AAPS themselves, Time magazine, NYTimes, Reuters, 60 minutes, American Cancer Society and American Academy of Pediatrics, among others.

No I didn't. I cited there was also The Atlantic, and explained the disdain. The rest of the links you gave will take you to literally one person. a doctor. A doctor who happens to demonize alternative medicine, rightly or wrongly, such as chiropratic, homeophatic, acupuncture, etc..any clinical medical practive other than 'scientific' he discredits. He railed against one of the lead doctor at AAPS for her belief in alternative medicine.

Quote
Yes.  Compare those who are treated with HCQ in addition to normal means, and those who are treated with just the normal means (antibotics, respirators, etc.)  Treat each group with the same level of health care, with the exception of one group also given HCQ.  That is a scientific study. 

And yes, I would definitely hope that I am given the placebo.   Based on the studies referenced by AAPS, I would have a better chance of recovery, by about 2%.

There are people dead today after given HCQ.  Your reasoning that HCQ save the people you mention and the studies that showed others given HCQ died, have the same weight of anecdotal evidence.

What I said before was, there are those who actually went through the experience and fully credited the use of the medicine to be what worked for them. To me, there's not a better validation than people who actually got through this than some laboratory/clinical inconclusive trials saying otherwise.

Moreover, HCQ is an immune reaction suppressant. It is widely known that part of the lethality of COVID, or any viral infection, is the vicious reaction of our immune system that destroys not only the invading infection but also the 'healthy cells'. Looking at it from that standpoint suggest a keener logic based on what we know what coronavirus does.

Quote
Exactly.  Mine is not a study, it is not scientific, it is just some simple math I did on the spot.  It has the same level of science and study behind it as the data that AAPS refers to.  You are quick to call my calculations BS.  And yet you claim the other calculations are valid?  Hypocritical, yes?

Vis-a-Vis.

Quote
History is full of quick to claim benefits of some drug or another.  Some work, some don't and many have consequences discovered after the fact.  I don't buy that HCQ is effective because even it's own data shows it helps some and kills others.  Would those deaths have occurred without HCQ?  No idea.  Would those who recovered have recovered without HCQ?  No idea.  I am saying that AAPS are misleading everyone by trying to claim that HCQ helps patients recover from covid, but the data from the referenced studies make no such conclusion.

If you're not saying one way or the other, then not really sure what you're really saying, or why even engage in this discussion?

Quote
I believe the current lockdown is the lesser of 2 bad situations.  The alternative is let ppl run amok with a disease that is proven to be an exponential factor more contagious than the flu, and more than ten times deadlier.   I think the best solution is track, trace and isolate, but the US is still not equipped for that.

Same as above. Like I said you don't believe in easing the lockdown, more power to you, but that doesn't mean people that believe differently, and are doing it, shouldn't. It is widely declared, those who doesn't like the idea of easing the lockdown, or those considered 'vulnerable to the virus', should simply shelter at home.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on June 02, 2020, 02:25:03 PM
What, this is not 'fkae news' as it finds your 'agenda', BillyB ?  ;)
oh come on now mobers...you know how it works, the media is only fake and corrupt when it reports inconvenient to agenda items!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 02, 2020, 03:10:19 PM
OMG.

I note that GQB is STILL pushing the 'benefits' of HCQ without a CLUE .. ((

To top it all, he's STILL suggesting that he'll be selfish and 'get on with life', despite others - sensibly - avoiding giving the virus the chance to spread .. and it KILING people.. What will it take to convince him ? 



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 02, 2020, 04:26:43 PM
OMG.

I note that GQB is STILL pushing the 'benefits' of HCQ without a CLUE .. ((

To top it all, he's STILL suggesting that he'll be selfish and 'get on with life', despite others - sensibly - avoiding giving the virus the chance to spread .. and it KILING people.. What will it take to convince him ?

Do you see dead people, too or you have reading comprehension issue? Maybe both?

Maybe the result of being put in the doghouse one too many times? :devil:

Yup, it's true ...

I got told off for not congratulating SC on this (apparently) important day in the calendar..

For those of you who are 'behind' Europe in time, you can surprise your blonde wife / partner / gf and not be in 'the doghouse' ;)

Yah poor sap.:(
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 02, 2020, 10:08:53 PM
Do you see dead people, too or you have reading comprehension issue? Maybe both?

More tosh .. I'm just trying to keep ma Ma safe from selfish Tw*ts like you ..

Within 50m of us ( small, rural village) .. we've had three neighbours that had 'it'

HCQ is indeed a drug that helps specific auto-immune issues .. it has NOT helped those with COVID-19 and your description of how it 'might' stop a dramatic reaction of an infected persons auto-immune system was NONSENSE ... This is not Lupus..



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 03, 2020, 06:08:57 AM
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/man-behind-sweden-s-virus-strategy-says-he-got-some-things-wrong (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/man-behind-sweden-s-virus-strategy-says-he-got-some-things-wrong)

Man Behind Sweden’s Controversial Virus Strategy Admits Mistakes

No sh*t, 'Sherlock'..

Sweden’s top epidemiologist has admitted his strategy to fight Covid-19 resulted in too many deaths, after persuading his country to avoid a strict lockdown.

“If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,” Anders Tegnell said in an interview with Swedish Radio.


Mind you, the UK and it's "We'll try the 'herd immunity route', ooops.. no we won't, then, ' we'll open up FAR too early" approach is woking out, 'so well' ...


 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 03, 2020, 06:16:46 AM
More tosh .. I'm just trying to keep ma Ma safe from selfish Tw*ts like you ..

Within 50m of us ( small, rural village) .. we've had three neighbours that had 'it'

HCQ is indeed a drug that helps specific auto-immune issues .. it has NOT helped those with COVID-19 and your description of how it 'might' stop a dramatic reaction of an infected persons auto-immune system was NONSENSE ... This is not Lupus..

Good don’t use it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 03, 2020, 06:55:08 AM
*I* don't .. my daughter has been and clueless tw*ts like you caused shortages for those who REALLY need it
Title: Coronavirus, nobody freaking knows
Post by: 2tallbill on June 03, 2020, 10:41:01 AM
OMG.

Moby,

We have gotten so many conflicting reports about Covid my head
is about to explode. First it wasn't contagious person to person,
then masks wouldn't do any good, then only certain masks work
and then wear a mask (home made from contents found in your
sock drawer) at all times.

Then X drug could be a magical elixir then it's not. Nobody knows
what's going on especially those in charge. It's only dangerous to
old people, then it kills everybody.

New symptoms! Can only get it once or a thousand times! Everyone
measures deaths differently.

We all just have to do what we think is best. Maybe in a few years
there will be some sort of agreement on what the best solution
should be (but I doubt it).

Udachi!

Bill

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on June 03, 2020, 06:46:56 PM

My government won't let me get a haircut or sit in a restaurant telling me I need to social distance for everybody's safety and to prevent overloading the hospitals. The liberals and media would shame people who didn't social distance. Now they tell me they care about my right to free speech to protest with the mob they're praising. Next week they'll tell me they need to prolong the shutdowns and stay at home due to the increase of infections. Lol.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 03, 2020, 07:39:25 PM
the shortage of hydroxy probably is probably more a result of Trump’s purchase of nearly 30 million tablets, than individual purchases, I suspect there was intent to sell these 30 million tablets at a profit eventually, seems to be a plot about this that was accidentally exposed when Jerome Corsi, an associate of Roger Stone emailed the wrong person about it

but now, rather than donate this drug to people with auto-immune illnesses and have it interfere with big pharma’s profits, I suspect it will eventually be dumped in a landfill...

yeah America!



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 04, 2020, 05:58:37 AM
*I* don't .. my daughter has been and clueless tw*ts like you caused shortages for those who REALLY need it

http://www.news18.com/amp/news/india/india-boosts-output-of-hydroxychloroquine-drug-exported-to-97-countries-amid-pandemic-says-health-min-2610609.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 04, 2020, 06:02:47 AM
http://www.news18.com/amp/news/india/india-boosts-output-of-hydroxychloroquine-drug-exported-to-97-countries-amid-pandemic-says-health-min-2610609.html

Yes, Yes... and there was 'enough' toilet roll / flour / pasta around.. but some still had trouble finding it.. 

YOU 'quote' after 'googling' ..


Sadly, those already relying on HCQ weren't always so lucky ...


Clueless



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 04, 2020, 06:04:47 AM
Everyone knew there was no shortage. You were the only clueless one. Just thought to help you out. Glad I was able to.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on June 04, 2020, 06:13:17 AM

I note that GQB is STILL pushing the 'benefits' of HCQ without a CLUE .. ((


Lancet and the New England Journal of Medicine published HCQ studies that prompted WHO to suspend clinical trials.  The reliability of the data used in these studies is now suspect.      The discrepancies are so extreme to suggest the data could have been falsified.  Wednesday the WHO announced it would resume its global trial of hydroxychloroquine.

Pharma companies are researching  several promising therapeutic medicines.  None have yet been proven highly effective.  HCQ  could be effective for some categories of patients, perhaps equal to if not better than other medicines now being studied.  Nevertheless, HCQ is not a panacea, and neither is any other drug under consideration.   

Google:  Lancet, Surgisphere and Sapan Desai.   Numerous sources. 

It is alarming the depth of corruption to which some professional people will sink in their zeal to oppose conservative  ideology.  It has corrupted FBI leadership, intelligence leaders, news agencies, and now apparently medical scientists.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 04, 2020, 06:14:18 AM
Everyone knew there was no shortage. .

AGAIN, with the crass stupidity ?

You've had this link from the US Arthritis Society

http://www.arthritis.org/drug-guide/medication-topics/plaquenil-shortage (http://www.arthritis.org/drug-guide/medication-topics/plaquenil-shortage)

Nigeria... in the Lupus context

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-04-shortage-hydroxychloroquine-mothers-lupus.html

Prices went up nearly SEVEN times..



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on June 04, 2020, 06:16:10 AM


It is alarming the depth of corruption to which some professional people will sink in their zeal to oppose conservative  ideology.  It has corrupted FBI leadership, intelligence leaders, news agencies, and now apparently medical scientists.
Hypocritical statement considering you do the very same thing if it isn't 'conservative ideology'.

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 04, 2020, 06:23:07 AM

It is alarming the depth of corruption to which some professional people will sink in their zeal to oppose conservative  ideology.  It has corrupted FBI leadership, intelligence leaders, news agencies, and now apparently medical scientists.

Indeed, it is alarming how we, I include myself, have become 'experts' in meds ...

In the meantime, the rumours of HCQs dubious effiacy have caused probs for those for which its benefits outweigh the horrible risks..

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/hydroxychloroquine-fails-prevent-covid-19-large-study-shows-n1223921  (http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/hydroxychloroquine-fails-prevent-covid-19-large-study-shows-n1223921)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 04, 2020, 06:49:52 AM
Lancet and the New England Journal of Medicine published HCQ studies that prompted WHO to suspend clinical trials.  The reliability of the data used in these studies is now suspect.      The discrepancies are so extreme to suggest the data could have been falsified.  Wednesday the WHO announced it would resume its global trial of hydroxychloroquine.

Pharma companies are researching  several promising therapeutic medicines.  None have yet been proven highly effective.  HCQ  could be effective for some categories of patients, perhaps equal to if not better than other medicines now being studied.  Nevertheless, HCQ is not a panacea, and neither is any other drug under consideration.   

Google:  Lancet, Surgisphere and Sapan Desai.   Numerous sources. 

It is alarming the depth of corruption to which some professional people will sink in their zeal to oppose conservative  ideology.  It has corrupted FBI leadership, intelligence leaders, news agencies, and now apparently medical scientists.

I posted a link on a Lancet journal that cited that HCQ do in fact have efficacy as prophylaxis AND the belief there’s a shortage of the medication was rebuffed. It was conveniently hidden from this thread seemingly to remove it from general viewing and make the silly debate stay within the opponent’s POV.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24173.msg536308#msg536308

Quote from: Lancet Journal
The safety concerns raised by Rathi and colleagues include haemolysis in individuals with glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase deficiency and QTc prolongation. The prevalence of glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase deficiency in India ranges from 0% to 10%, with heterogenous distribution and incomplete penetrance.2 Haemolysis is not clinically significant when hydroxychloroquine is administered in usual therapeutic doses to individuals with WHO class II and III glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase deficiency, and the safety of hydroxychloroquine is well established with prolonged use. Furthermore, a routine electrocardiogram for QTc interval is not essential before hydroxychloroquine initiation in clinical practice and is not recommended in any guidelines. Decades of experience with this drug in autoimmune disorders is enough to allay these fears.

• View related content for this article

Concerns have been raised regarding lack of data on efficacy of hydroxychloroquine against severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2. A paucity of data is expected in the first wave of a pandemic caused by a novel virus.

Hydroxychloroquine has been shown to have in-vitro activity against the virus. Recently published human trials,4 along with other unpublished data,5 suggest that it could decrease the duration of viral shedding and symptoms if given early. A study from South Korea shows the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine for post-exposure prophylaxis.6 Historically, many drugs used in the treatment of an infectious disease have also been used for prophylaxis. The pharmacokinetics of hydroxychloroquine, such as its long half-life and high lung concentration (500-times the blood concentration), are ideally suited for use as an agent for prophylaxis.7

The criticisms made by Rathi and colleagues overlook the fact that prophylactic hydroxychloroquine would be targeted to individuals at high risk rather than the general population. Projection of adverse events to the population level causes unjustified alarm. The advisory from the Indian Council of Medical Research includes a section of key considerations that address all such concerns, which have been ignored by Rathi and colleagues. In addition, the argument that there will be a shortage of the drug is not tenable. Production has been ramped up and the Government of India is supplying hydroxychloroquine to more than 50 countries, which has received widespread appreciation.

We are in the midst of a once-in-a-generation pandemic, given the scale of morbidity and mortality. The frontline health-care workers are at great risk of infection; in Italy, 20% of the responding health-care workers have been infected.8 A wide variety of therapeutic interventions are being tried in COVID-19 patients, without any evidence but following a prudent approach. We believe that the hydroxychloroquine prophylaxis in selected groups of high-risk contacts is a prudent approach considering the risk–benefit analysis. Implemented as envisaged in the recommendation document from the Indian Council of Medical Research, evidence will be generated for future recommendations.

We declare no competing interests.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 04, 2020, 06:53:08 AM
“The discrepancies are so extreme”

BS, they were minor and corrected and the conclusion was still the same
the same conclusion found from every other study, including the one that killed veterans
looks like someone is bowing to pressure....

it is alarming the depth of corruption and LIES, don’t forget the lies to which dumb phuques will sink in their zeal to ENFORCE conservative  ideology
including their own complete destruction
1945 was a terrible time to be a Nazi, and so is 2020...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on June 04, 2020, 09:41:46 AM

There's never been a safe and effective vaccine or treatment created for any coronavirus in history and there still isn't. Although I'm not a fan of WHO, if they or CDC announces one, I'll believe one exists. Everything doctors are using now aren't proven but they are allowed to use certain drugs for emergency purposes.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on June 04, 2020, 12:16:53 PM
Indeed, it is alarming how we, I include myself, have become 'experts' in meds ...

In the meantime, the rumours of HCQs dubious effiacy have caused probs for those for which its benefits outweigh the horrible risks..

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/hydroxychloroquine-fails-prevent-covid-19-large-study-shows-n1223921  (http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/hydroxychloroquine-fails-prevent-covid-19-large-study-shows-n1223921)

For sure you are no medical expert, nor even someone who can grasp basic medical terms.  In the interest of helping you to elevate from your state of ignorance,  I highlight two mistakes that shows need for improvement.


Mistake No. 1    

Your source is for use of HCQ as a prophylactic, i. e. whether HCQ prevents becoming infected.   In contrast, my post addressed the use of HCQ as a therapeutic,  i. e., whether HCQ helps the recovery of someone already in the early stages of infection.     


Mistake No. 2  

You wrote HCQ  "have caused probs for those for which its benefits outweigh the horrible risks.."  If you had read your source, you would have seen this nugget:

Quote
  Despite concerns the drug might lead to dangerous heart problems, the researchers did not find that was the case in this study.   



You wrote a short post, yet you made two mistakes.  Imagine if you had written a more comprehensive post. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on June 04, 2020, 12:48:41 PM

BS, they were minor and corrected and the conclusion was still the same

You say BS, I call double BS.     Show me your source please.  Here's mine from the WSJ Editorial Board, a mere 19 hours ago.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-lancet-hcl-and-trump-11591226880

Quote
   One of the tragedies of the Trump era is how opposition to the President has caused some institutions to drop their standards. The FBI’s FISA warrant abuse is one example, and the overt media “resistance” is another. Now it may have contaminated the fight against Covid-19.

Maybe you should write the WSJ too with your source?

Krimster, try naming drugs that have proven more effective against COVID-19 than HCQ.  Does that say something? 


Quote
it is alarming the depth of corruption and LIES, don’t forget the lies to which dumb phuques will sink in their zeal to ENFORCE conservative  ideology
including their own complete destruction
1945 was a terrible time to be a Nazi, and so is 2020...


You must learn to complete your sentences.  2020 will be a bad year for Comey and many other loyal Obama soldiers who led the nation on an expensive, time consuming and obstructive hoax perpetrated because you could not accept the nation's electorate.   

When you move to Russia will you take your wall poster of Susan Rice and John Brennan?   I suggest only John's because he has voted communist in his  past. 

Your comments says you equate conservative thinking with Nazism.  You must be tired from all of your Antifa terrorism over the past few nights.   How many skulls did you bash in?   Or were you merely delivering caches of bricks.  I don't take you as a looter. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on June 04, 2020, 01:01:10 PM
Hey dumb phuque krimster!

This is Lancet's statement issued yesterday:

       “We are issuing an Expression of Concern to alert readers to the fact that serious scientific questions have been brought to our attention. We will update this notice as soon as we have further information."
 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 04, 2020, 01:03:23 PM
Sighs

Gator,

Who do you know that has been using HCQ ...  before it was labelled some 'wonder drug' in connection with COVID ?

Unlike you, I DID know the downsides of this drug, given someone I love dearly was taking it, despite the downsides ..

TRAGIC and TOTALLY Misleading BOLLOX #1 of yours

"Your source is for use of HCQ as a prophylactic, i. e. whether HCQ prevents becoming infected.   In contrast, my post addressed the use of HCQ as a therapeutic,  i. e., whether HCQ helps the recovery of someone already in the early stages of infection."     


You have posted dangerously inaccurate info as to the role of HCQ in connection with Lupus variants - HCQ's role is to SURPRESS the bodies immune system  - NOT to stop a disease as you suggest  ((

I enclose a US link to educate you .. You REALLY need to READ it

http://www.lupus.org/blog/are-people-with-lupus-protected-against-covid19

TRAGIC and TOTALLY Misleading BOLLOX #2 of yours

" Despite concerns the drug might lead to dangerous heart problems, the researchers did not find that was the case in this study.   "


Again sourced from YOUR nation



http://www.healthline.com/health/hydroxychloroquine-oral-tablet#side-effects (http://www.healthline.com/health/hydroxychloroquine-oral-tablet#side-effects)




This medication can cause heart disease. Although uncommon, some cases have been fatal.








Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 04, 2020, 01:55:44 PM
Gator-

PubMed.gov (http://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32373993/) actually released a journal dated April 24, 2020, a period of time that was almost at the crest of the curve in the US,  where they reported two interesting 'findings'...

1. in-vitro clinical studies that showed HCQ delays the viral shedding of COVID-19 and decreases the duration of eventual symptoms in cases where they are administered early. HCQ do have the anti-viral characteristic. This was also covered in Lancet's journal dated May 22, 2020.

2. And probably this other report is more interesting as any clinical trials in comparison: They found that "COVID-19 infections are highly pandemic in countries where malaria is least pandemic and are least pandemic in nations where malaria is highly pandemic. Giving rise to the reason that countries where people are likely to have administered HCQ in its fight against malaria also registered lower COVID-19 pandemic. Countries with lower cases of malaria, also happens to run the higher COVID-19 pandemic numbers.

Those countries are discussed here (http://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/world-malaria-report-2019#:~:text=Malaria%20cases,-In%202018%2C%20an&text=Nineteen%20countries%20in%20sub%2DSaharan,Niger%20(4%25%20each).)

Quote
Results: For this study, we identified a total of 09 published articles: 03 clinical trials with sample size 150; 03 in vitro studies and 03 expert consensus reports. These studies were all suggestive that chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine can successfully treat COVID-19 infections.

I do wonder now if what you stated prior re: medical corruption is as noted.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on June 04, 2020, 03:36:23 PM
Sighs

I explained in simple terms the two basic mistakes in your post.  Instead of learning from your mistakes, you now choose to introduce something requiring more complicated terms.  You failed at the simple stuff, so why should I even start something more complicated? 

It would be like discussing limnology with a high school student interested in nothing but sports and girls. 


BTW, no where have I said that I believe HCQ is a miracle drug.  However, if I became infected I would consider it in consultation with my physician.  Why?  Because we have no alternative. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 04, 2020, 03:42:28 PM
Authors Retract Study That Found Risks of Antimalaria Drug for Covid-19
Wall Street Journal Article, written by Jared S. Hopkins, Russell Gold

The Article (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/authors-retract-study-that-found-risks-of-antimalaria-drug-for-covid-19/ar-BB152RfJ?li=BBnb7Kz)

Three authors of a large study that last month found antimalarials provided no benefit to treating Covid-19 infections, while increasing the risk of heart problems and death, retracted their findings.

The authors said in a statement Thursday provided by The Lancet, the medical journal that published the study on May 22, that they decided to issue the retraction after Surgisphere Corp., the private company that provided the research data, refused to share the full, detailed data set as part of a review after outside researchers raised concerns.

“We always aspire to perform our research in accordance with the highest ethical and professional guidelines,” said the authors, Mandeep Mehra, Frank Ruschitzka and Amit Patel. “We can never forget the responsibility we have as researchers to scrupulously ensure that we rely on data sources that adhere to our high standards. Based on this development, we can no longer vouch for the veracity of the primary data sources.”

The authors also said they apologized for “any embarrassment or inconvenience that this may have caused.”

The Lancet said in a statement that it “takes issues of scientific integrity extremely seriously, and there are many outstanding questions about Surgisphere and the data that were allegedly included in this study.”
The peer-reviewed study analyzed medical records of 96,000 patients hospitalized across six continents with confirmed coronavirus cases from Dec. 20 to April 14. Of the total, 15,000 patients were treated with the malaria drugs alone or in combination with an antibiotic.

Its findings indicated the antimalaria drugs, which many doctors have used to treat Covid-19 patients, didn’t help and might even hurt patients.

Following the study, the World Health Organization paused enrolling patients in clinical trials testing hydroxychloroquine, although this week the organization said it resumed the trials.

More than 100 researchers have raised questions about the data behind the study and about Surgisphere, which had supplied it.

Surgisphere said it has petabytes of data from more than 100 million patients, culled from some 1,200 hospitals and institutions on six continents. Yet many researchers and some hospitals said they had never heard of Surgisphere.

The founder of Surgisphere, Dr. Sapan Desai, was the other author on the paper. Dr. Desai couldn’t be reached for comment.


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on June 04, 2020, 03:48:49 PM
Hey dumb phuque krimster!

You today told me I was wrong about the HCQ data, saying the data discrepancies  were "minor and corrected and the conclusion was still the same."  Then you went on about Nazis and such. 

I asked you for a source of your claim.  You gave none.  So I found one for you, from just 2 hours ago. 

Lancet, New England Journal retract Covid-19 studies, including one that raised safety concerns about malaria drugs

[I know see that GQ has already listed the retraction]

A sane man would apologize. 

You and Moby should get together, look up the definition of retraction, and decide who of you two is the biggest arse. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 04, 2020, 04:52:28 PM
I don’t feel any regrets, none whatsoever....
but take a look outside your window
20% unemployment and growing and heading into the first depression since the 1930‘s
over 110,000 dead and growing
almost 2 million infections and growing
trillions in new deficits and growing
wide scale civil unrest
and all this just a couple of months after your führer called Corona a hoax
and let’s not forget about other things either
like the failed trade war with China, and even though every economics book will tell you of the effects of tariffs on the depression of 1930, guess what Trump did and is still doing
or the gutting of our national law enforcement and intelligence agencies
or that our allies our backing away from us, while Trump is trying to get Russia back into the G7

do YOU feel any regrets?
of course you don’t
the führer aka “bunker bitch” the bible holding photo opportunist
is here ONLY because of dumb phuques like YOU
and they will be serving ice tea in Hell with a lemon twist
before I ever express any regrets to you...
hopefully, you realize, that if there is a fall/winter peak
then next year, this country will fall far below a mere depression
into a complete economic and social collapse
how regretful that Make America Great, didn’t work out any better than Trump University did
I told ya so...

PS
I am NOT a sane man
cuz if I were, why the hell would I be posting here?
I would think that I should be considered a bigger arse than Moby
at least I try to be
but wait until the collapse comes....
hehehe
and I can come out and play
with dumb phuques
anticipation is building within me
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on June 04, 2020, 07:11:24 PM
I don’t feel any regrets, none whatsoever....
      .
      .
      .

NONSENSE
      .
      .
      .

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

You composed fake news to challenge a point I was attempting to share . Unlike your fake predictions, fake news can be fact checked.  And you were found to be not telling the truth.  This has happened before, so when you tell us something, what are we to believe?   

On many occasions I attempted to interact with you in some sort of intellectual discourse.   I give up. 

Got your bags packed yet?

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 04, 2020, 07:19:25 PM
" some sort of intellectual discourse"

since when have Trump voters EVER been capable of this, so get real
if there's a second peak, then one of Trump's so called hoaxes
is gonna burn this country all the way to the ground...
nothing left, your social security if it comes at all, won't even buy you a pound of ground beef, even if there was any to buy
take all the hydroxy or bleach you want!!!
might be quicker for you that way, and end your suffering...
may God have mercy on you , for I shall give you and those like you, none at all...
I predicted Trump would destroy America, how far off was I?

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on June 04, 2020, 09:36:34 PM

I predicted Trump would destroy America, how far off was I?
Trump is doing a terrible job in the most recent crisis.  Supporters like 'gator' will back up trump no matter what, and will denigrate former members of trump's team such as Mattis and Kelly who are now speaking out.   

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 04, 2020, 10:04:51 PM
I explained in simple terms the two basic mistakes in your post.  Instead of learning from your mistakes, you now choose to introduce something requiring more complicated terms.  You failed at the simple stuff, so why should I even start something more complicated? 

I have noticed you have started suggesting folks can't understand your posts and must 'lack in English skills / intellect ' when your posts are busted ..

It's not the wisest tactic

Your 'points' were rebuffed by someone that has a vested interested in the side effects of HCQ and for a LOT longer than your recent interest..

BTW, no where have I said that I believe HCQ is a miracle drug.  However, if I became infected I would consider it in consultation with my physician.  Why?  Because we have no alternative.

If you already know it's not a 'miracle drug'.. ask your physician to enroll you on a trial, now and good luck with your 'health'
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on June 04, 2020, 11:29:56 PM
  Why?  Because we have no alternative.

We do have alternatives Gator, but we're passing them off right and left.

We can beat the bug at its own game as many nations are doing.
We can learn from the Germans about how they handled cases, their admittance criteria and supportive treatments they are using.
We can hunt and seek infected and asymptomatic folks along with their contacts.

But alas, it is all too much for us Americans, living in the richest and most powerful country on the planet.

Our exceptionalism is again killing us.

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 05, 2020, 04:04:41 AM
http://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN~DEU~ITA~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA (http://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN~DEU~ITA~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA)

Well, The UK is still 'excelling' itself, today .. just pipping Sweden for the highest 7-day rolling ave death rate...

http://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN~DEU~ITA~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on June 05, 2020, 04:38:59 AM
We do have alternatives Gator, but we're passing them off right and left.

We can beat the bug at its own game as many nations are doing.
We can learn from the Germans about how they handled cases, their admittance criteria and supportive treatments they are using.
We can hunt and seek infected and asymptomatic folks along with their contacts.

But alas, it is all too much for us Americans, living in the richest and most powerful country on the planet.

Our exceptionalism is again killing us.

What are the alternatives BC? Sitting in our homes waiting for a vaccine from a bug that has what appears to be a .02% (influenza is much worse btw) mortality rate? A bug that over 98% of those infected will recover completely on their own without any intervention. There is much still unknown about covid and there is no cure. The scientific community cannot agree on the approach to this bug. Perhaps we should have ignored it initially letting it spread treating it as another influenza strain? Essentially, that's what it is
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 05, 2020, 04:50:35 AM
What are the alternatives BC? Sitting in our homes waiting for a vaccine from a bug that has what appears to be a .02% (influenza is much worse btw) mortality rate? A bug that over 98% of those infected will recover completely on their own without any intervention. There is much still unknown about covid and there is no cure. The scientific community cannot agree on the approach to this bug. Perhaps we should have ignored it initially letting it spread treating it as another influenza strain? Essentially, that's what it is

At least for now we know we have HCQ. It doesn’t cause heart disease and no danger of inventory shortage either. ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on June 05, 2020, 04:53:04 AM
I have noticed you have started suggesting folks can't understand your posts and must 'lack in English skills / intellect ' when your posts are busted ..

It's not the wisest tactic

Your 'points' were rebuffed by someone that has a vested interested in the side effects of HCQ and for a LOT longer than your recent interest..

If you already know it's not a 'miracle drug'.. ask your physician to enroll you on a trial, now and good luck with your 'health'
Gator explained it to you quite succinctly. You are just too thick to "get it". There is no cure and HCQ isn't it. HCQ has proven helpful to alter the course of covid if started early enough.

Your daughter taking HCQ for Lupus does not make you an authority on HCQ. Your are as dense on HCQ as you are most all subjects you insist on posting on.

There is no shortage of HCQ, in this country anyway. It is a low cost and highly available drug. The short term side effects differ from the long term but not enough to warrant not considering it for covid treatment. There are the facts. I know you'll argue with them so, help yourself. You can't possibly make yourself look anymore ignorant on the subject than you already have
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 05, 2020, 04:54:51 AM
. Perhaps we should have ignored it initially letting it spread treating it as another influenza strain? Essentially, that's what it is

Like THAT is working so well for Sweden and the UK  ...too late to save many folks who would still be around ..


Sure, get back to normal and catch that second wave ..    I get it ... no one you know and thought was healthy has died .. 

Please explain how you think 'flu has killed more people in this century..



 

..
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 05, 2020, 05:00:18 AM
At least for now we know we have HCQ. It doesn’t cause heart disease and no danger of inventory shortage either. ;)

Repeating nonsense making you FEEL 'good' ?

Another recent supply chain issue article ( this time UK ) to remind us that GQB and facts are frequently at variance

http://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/news-and-analysis/news/manufacturer-to-move-hydroxychloroquine-production-to-the-uk-to-avoid-shortages/20207948.article (http://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/news-and-analysis/news/manufacturer-to-move-hydroxychloroquine-production-to-the-uk-to-avoid-shortages/20207948.article)

The UK has already faced supply shortages ....
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on June 05, 2020, 05:05:23 AM
Like THAT is working so well for Sweden and the UK  ...too late to save many folks who would still be around ..


Sure, get back to normal and catch that second wave ..    I get it ... no one you know and thought was healthy has died .. 

Please explain how you think 'flu has killed more people in this century..



 

..

Oh yeah the all dreaded "second wave" declaration from the experts. Likely the same ones that predicted "millions of deaths" in the US alone.  If a second wave is coming it will infect just as the first wave did. We can't stop it. Some of us will have antibodies and some won't. If as some of the experts say it returns yearly it will claim more lives, like guess what? Influenza. How's life in your mothers basement working out for you anyway?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on June 05, 2020, 05:12:48 AM
I have noticed you have started suggesting folks can't understand your posts and must 'lack in English skills / intellect ' when your posts are busted ..

In your case, you do  not lack in English skills.  Intellect could be questioned, yet I attribute any deficiency to your 1) lack of thoroughness and 2) an extraordinary degree of stubbornness.       


Quote
Your 'points' were rebuffed by someone that has a vested interested in the side effects of HCQ and for a LOT longer than your recent interest..

I wish her well. 

Quote
If you already know it's not a 'miracle drug'.. ask your physician to enroll you on a trial, now and good luck with your 'health'

Why?  HCQ is apparently not a prophylactic, although some doctors on the frontline were using it as such on themselves.     

Are you angry or just trying to tease me?   I will play along - your comment is puzzling as if you have the neurological side effects from taking mefloquine (a drug used in the Army instead of cloroquine to prevent malaria, because the latter was not effective against resistant strains).   Google that one for some juicy stories. 

BTW, 50+ years ago as a soldier in Vietnam, the Army gave anti-malaria drug to me and everyone else.  Was it HCQ?  Maybe that explains my growing number of disorders?   Or was it Agent Orange?    BTW, over 20,000 US troops contracted malaria in the Vietnam war, required convalescence, and later returned to duty.    A few died. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 05, 2020, 05:15:24 AM
Gator explained it to you quite succinctly.

No  .. he didn't ..

You are just too thick to "get it". There is no cure and HCQ isn't it. HCQ has proven helpful to alter the course of covid if started early enough.

Tosh....  This is not a med to take ..j'ust in case' ..

Your daughter taking HCQ for Lupus does not make you an authority on HCQ.

Once again, I never claimed to be an 'expert' - esp in conjunction with COVID-19, but I am, VERY familiar with the possible side effects from it being taken short and long-term ..and have DESPAIRED the sudden 'expertise' of COVIDiots

There is no shortage of HCQ, in this country anyway. It is a low cost and highly available drug. The short term side effects differ from the long term but not enough to warrant not considering it for covid treatment. There are the facts. I know you'll argue with them so, help yourself.

There HAVE been shortages -  and you've just ignored them ... I mean do you KNOW folk who been taking it, long before the  'efficacy' for COVID-19 became 'known' ?

You can't possibly make yourself look anymore ignorant on the subject than you already have

Given your 'no shortages' stance, alone, I KNOW you're clueless


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 05, 2020, 05:26:47 AM
In your case, you do  not lack in English skills.  Intellect could be questioned, yet I attribute any deficiency to your 1) lack of thoroughness

Gator, find me the father who wouldn't read up on a drug that has awful side effects ... you're posting bollox

and 2) an extraordinary degree of stubbornness.   

That I attribute to those who'd never heard of the med - at least two months earlier than I ... :rolleyes:

50+ years ago as a soldier in Vietnam, the Army gave anti-malaria drug to me and everyone else.  Was it HCQ?

Probably chloroquine or primaquine.. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4556080/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4556080/)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 05, 2020, 07:19:21 AM
it was actually both, we called them "C&P tablets", if I remember correctly it was a once per week dose
I had a friend with lupus who took Plaquenil, the trade name for hydroxy, one of the side effects was vision loss, due to retina degradation
she had the equivalent of bad pixels on her retina, got worse the longer she took it
so she stopped taking it and then she took a "biological" and got Leukemia from that (happens to 2% of patients) and died...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 05, 2020, 06:41:54 PM
:ROFL:

Holy Macarena Mckinninee! LMAO! You just can't make this stuff up!!!

The whole story so many people bought into, including the WHO's Dr. Tedros, Lancet, plus members of this board - about HCQ being ineffective against COVID-19, causes heart diseases and deaths, and inventory shortages...

::::drum roll please ::::::::

Was authored by a porn star and a science fiction writer!!! (http://goachronicle.com/dr-tedros-why-did-who-rely-on-a-science-fiction-writer-and-adult-content-model-to-drop-hcq/)

dossier...Russian collusion...abuse of power....impeachment...yadayadayada…. this one takes the cake, baby! Just goes to show how gullible some people are in our midst!!

:ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 05, 2020, 06:56:29 PM
I wonder if GQB has researched the academic qualifications of the findings of other trials that questioned HCQ's effiacy ?

"Administration of hydroxychloroquine did not result in a significantly higher probability of negative conversion than standard of care alone in patients admitted to hospital with mainly persistent mild to moderate covid-19. Adverse events were higher in hydroxychloroquine recipients than in non-recipients."

http://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1849/ (http://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1849/)

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on June 05, 2020, 07:42:53 PM
:ROFL:

Holy Macarena Mckinninee! LMAO! You just can't make this stuff up!!!

The whole story so many people bought into, including the WHO's Dr. Tedros, Lancet, plus members of this board - about HCQ being ineffective against COVID-19, causes heart diseases and deaths, and inventory shortages...

::::drum roll please ::::::::

Was authored by a porn star and a science fiction writer!!! (http://goachronicle.com/dr-tedros-why-did-who-rely-on-a-science-fiction-writer-and-adult-content-model-to-drop-hcq/)

dossier...Russian collusion...abuse of power....impeachment...yadayadayada…. this one takes the cake, baby! Just goes to show how gullible some people are in our midst!!

:ROFL:

 :ROFL:

Just WOW!

Quote
A search of publicly available material suggests several of Surgisphere’s employees have little or no data or scientific background. An employee listed as a science editor appears to be a science fiction author and fantasy artist. Another employee listed as a marketing executive is an adult model and events hostess.

Why am I not surprised? The worlds authority on health turns to a sham company for advice on meds and treatment to a global pandemic.

I wonder if GQB has researched the academic qualifications of the findings of other trials that questioned HCQ's effiacy ?

"Administration of hydroxychloroquine did not result in a significantly higher probability of negative conversion than standard of care alone in patients admitted to hospital with mainly persistent mild to moderate covid-19. Adverse events were higher in hydroxychloroquine recipients than in non-recipients."

http://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1849/ (http://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1849/)



Just stop embarrassing yourself there Wylie E Coyote. HCQ is an effective treatment for some covid patients and was even before President Donald J. Trump ever mentioned it. The lengths the left has gone just to prove Trump wrong knows no bounds. Lie, lie, lie when nothing else works and you are no exception
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 05, 2020, 08:08:52 PM
Sorry to point the obvious out, as is so oft the case with you, Mr Mistake, .. but ..

..if HCQ was SO effective, why is its 'efficacy' not remotely universally agreed upon... ?..

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 05, 2020, 08:37:52 PM
I truly hope that EVERY Trump voter gets the maximum dosage of Hydroxy when they get get Covid-19 and hopefully there will be a lengthy documentary with video and pictures of the outcome so I can watch it over and over and over...

looks like we’re heading into a second peak of the Corona Virus hoax
must be a plot against Trump by the fake news media and the deep state, time to hold up another bible
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on June 05, 2020, 08:58:31 PM
Sorry to point the obvious out, as is so oft the case with you, Mr Mistake, .. but ..

..if HCQ was SO effective, why is its 'efficacy' not remotely universally agreed upon... ?..

You wouldn't know the obvious if it bit you on the ass. Early on the doctors that found the effectiveness of HCQ did so thinking outside the box and against instruction of the WHO. You Moobs did not have that ability. You do as you're told
I truly hope that EVERY Trump voter gets the maximum dosage of Hydroxy when they get get Covid-19 and hopefully there will be a lengthy documentary with video and pictures of the outcome so I can watch it over and over and over...

looks like we’re heading into a second peak of the Corona Virus hoax
must be a plot against Trump by the fake news media and the deep state, time to hold up another bible

That is just so sweet of you Krim.  :blowkiss: Attempting to help our Wylie Coyote look intelligent is a lesson in futility. You can't put enough lipstick on that pig. Now even you are pushing "second wave". Surely 5% of the population die this time? Time to grab your pin knifes, head to the fort and melt some s'mores eh? You and Wylie  E Coyote have powder burns on your face
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 05, 2020, 09:00:48 PM
OMG!

Certain people actually believed a 'porn star's tales of adventures!!! and people bought into this hook, line and sinker, baby!

:ROFL:

Between those two authors, they could've come up with something like..."Virus from Galaxy 69"....maybe even, "The AH-VIRAL!"...maybe "SAUSAGE SHORTAGE FROM OUTER FACE!"

LMAO! Classic!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 05, 2020, 09:11:35 PM
Christ! This pshyt just doesn't stop!!!

Nearly Half of Coronavirus Spread May Be Traced to People Without Any Symptoms

http://time.com/5848949/covid-19-asymptomatic-spread/

Nearly half? If they don't even know the extent, how do they know what's half, much less 'nearly? LMAO!

Coronavirus Appears To Be Declining in Potency and People are Contracting It Less Easily, US doctors reveal...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8390849/University-Pittsburgh-doctors-say-coronavirus-appears-declining-potency.html

How freaking convenient is this!!! Thousands had been meshing like sardines in every blue states, and all of the sudden this pandemic is getting 'weaker' and people contracting it less easily!?!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on June 05, 2020, 09:13:47 PM
OMG!

Certain people actually believed a 'porn star's tales of adventures!!! and people bought into this hook, line and sinker, baby!

:ROFL:

Between those two authors, they could've come up with something like..."Virus from Galaxy 69"....maybe even, "The AH-VIRAL!"...maybe "SAUSAGE SHORTAGE FROM OUTER FACE!"

LMAO! Classic!

That's pretty much what it is, isn't? LOL On the world
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on June 05, 2020, 09:16:11 PM
Christ! This pshyt just doesn't stop!!!

Nearly Half of Coronavirus Spread May Be Traced to People Without Any Symptoms

http://time.com/5848949/covid-19-asymptomatic-spread/

Nearly half? If they don't even know the extent, how do they know what's half, much less 'nearly? LMAO!

Coronavirus Appears To Be Declining in Potency and People are Contracting It Less Easily, US doctors reveal...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8390849/University-Pittsburgh-doctors-say-coronavirus-appears-declining-potency.html

How freaking convenient is this!!! Thousands had been meshing like sardines in every blue states, and all of the sudden this pandemic is getting 'weaker' and people contracting it less easily!?!

Even more is being revealed by the autopsies that both the WHO and CDC forbid on covid victims. Turn on the light and watch the roaches run
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Davo on June 05, 2020, 09:17:21 PM
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-05/20/c_139072181.htm

We’re trialing the drug on our high risk medical staff and have a history of prescribing it.

Life’s returning to normal here. We haven’t had any active cases for a while now in our state. For some of us it was a non event. The biggest inconvenience was lack of toilet paper because we shopped after work and was sold out.

The virus has help my business and my other day job to boom. Stimulus Tax breaks and a potential good agricultural season has seen orders increase 5 fold..... there’s unlimited over time ATM. In my business my turnover has doubled due to the low dollar and increased demand for parts in the US and locally. People who have been isolating at home and not preparing for the end of the world, have been enjoying their hobbies .... they’ve been working on their performance cars and buying new parts from OZ.


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 05, 2020, 09:25:29 PM
The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the
inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men
and it is inevitable that you shall all be struck down
the writing is on the wall

if you are not a righteous man
then go ahead, be in denial about what's coming
and make no preparations
and seal your own fate
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on June 05, 2020, 09:37:35 PM
The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the
inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men
and it is inevitable that you shall all be struck down
the writing is on the wall

if you are not a righteous man
then go ahead, be in denial about what's coming
and make no preparations
and seal your own fate

Oh the latest from the prophet Krim! Hail! Hail! Fix me a s'more and get your ass on topic
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 06, 2020, 02:47:29 AM
Medice, cura te ipsum, Mr Mistake !
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on June 06, 2020, 05:39:58 AM
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-05/20/c_139072181.htm

We’re trialing the drug on our high risk medical staff and have a history of prescribing it.

Life’s returning to normal here......

The virus has help my business and my other day job to boom....


Splendid news.  Thanks for the update. 

Any concern about this changing in your upcoming winter season? 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on June 06, 2020, 05:42:35 AM

if you are not a righteous man
then go ahead, be in denial about what's coming


Are you righteous?  You break the Ninth Commandment on these pages, bearing false witness to your RWD neighbors. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 06, 2020, 06:20:02 AM
let he who is without sin cast the first stone

tools to help ya’ll survive covid

1. pulse oximiter
you can buy from amazon for under $30

while healthy, use this and make a log of your O2 levels during rest so you’ll know your average
when you get sick and your O2 level falls below 25% of this, call 911

2. Oxygen Concentrator
these are rated by flow, get at least 6L per minute, this’ll boost your O2 levels
I found a 7L/min model on ebay for under $400
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 06, 2020, 07:38:15 AM
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-05/20/c_139072181.htm

We’re trialing the drug on our high risk medical staff and have a history of prescribing it.

Life’s returning to normal here. We haven’t had any active cases for a while now in our state. For some of us it was a non event. The biggest inconvenience was lack of toilet paper because we shopped after work and was sold out.

The virus has help my business and my other day job to boom. Stimulus Tax breaks and a potential good agricultural season has seen orders increase 5 fold..... there’s unlimited over time ATM. In my business my turnover has doubled due to the low dollar and increased demand for parts in the US and locally. People who have been isolating at home and not preparing for the end of the world, have been enjoying their hobbies .... they’ve been working on their performance cars and buying new parts from OZ.

Davo-

Oz has been one of the few countries that had been steadfast during this crisis. Amazing how the Aussies seemed unaffected by the chaotic changes in guidance we were all subjected to. Well, maybe with the exception with the whole fascination on toilet paper. Oz has also been one of the first to dive into vaccine research the minute it received the genome from China.

Is the new revelation regarding HCQ covered in your media? It’s pretty much (relatively) censored here. There was literally 1 minute total of coverage from the 3 prime newscast channels *combined*
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 06, 2020, 11:39:37 AM
yeah, corrections....
so it appears that the unemployment figures were deliberately gamed to appear lower
instead of 13% it’s more like 16%, but in Trumpland even 16% unemployment is good news and is celebrated
according to Trump, even George Floyd is celebrating these unemployment numbers in heaven (and Trump reads, er I mean holds the bible, so he definitely knows about stuff like this)

Texas has decided to go the Swedish route, and as a result has a second peak
but...
not just a second peak, it has just in the past few days hit a record peak
during 90 degree plus weather
remember, “it will go away, when it’s warmer...”
yeah, me to

I decided LONG before this new data became apparent to “short America”
the return on 3 million USD in 2 year T-bills, won’t even pay my electric bill
I long for the late 90s when the average savings account paid 6%
there’s a $10 spread in gold between New York and London
buying as much as I can and apparently so is everyone else
dealer prices are way above spot

most probable outcome, the second peak stretches into flu season
so when the flu peak starts climbing, instead of a low baseline
it will be much higher, which means this peak will also be much, much higher
being as the pandemic numbers are tied to economic numbers which are also tied to social unrest
I expect these numbers to rise dramatically this fall/winter

meanwhile, the gamed unemployment figures will be used by Republicans in the senate as justification to delay/scale back/eliminate another stimulus package for the masses so they can focus on appointing Republican federal judges
while the federal reserve can keep buying up stocks and give banks as much money as they want without any input from congress

I wonder what state will host a mask free Republican National Convention and trade lives for $$
and how many red states will prefer to lose voters, rather than allow them to vote by mail

when will you dumb phuques realize that “Make America Great Again”
is your “Arbeit macht frei” slogan while you all go to your deaths

those of you who haven’t prepared already, have a few months before SHTF...
after that, it’ll be too late
so good luck to ya’ll
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 06, 2020, 11:52:08 AM
Thanks to all the selfish tw*ts 'marching for George' and Police brutality when expressly banned from mass garherings for reasons of public safety..and sending the R number back up...

For those of us who have obeyed by staying at home and socially distancing...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Confederate on June 06, 2020, 02:44:01 PM
Thanks to all the selfish tw*ts 'marching for George' and Police brutality when expressly banned from mass garherings for reasons of public safety..and sending yhe R number back up...

For those of us who have obeyed by staying at home and socially distancing...

First somewhat intelligent post out of you in a good long while.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Confederate on June 06, 2020, 02:46:39 PM
Meanwhile somewhere in America a Latino store owner has had enough.

http://9gag.com/gag/ax9g7rb
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on June 06, 2020, 02:49:39 PM
Meanwhile somewhere in America a Latino store owner has had enough.

http://9gag.com/gag/ax9g7rb

Since the Democratic leadership doesn't want help from Trump to restore law and order to keep citizens and businesses safe, citizens and business owners will have to take matters into their own hands.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 06, 2020, 03:32:13 PM
Meanwhile somewhere in America a Latino store owner has had enough.

http://9gag.com/gag/ax9g7rb

:ROFL:

That’s epic!

I think the idiot holding a sign that read *BLM! Defund the police* was the one that yelled “somebody call 911!”
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Davo on June 06, 2020, 03:50:46 PM

Splendid news.  Thanks for the update. 

Any concern about this changing in your upcoming winter season?

People don’t seem too concerned about the cold and flu season....Not to say there won’t be a resurgence.  The state borders are still closed so I’d be surprised if the states with no cases experience high infections again. Vic and NSW are the states to watch for increased active cases and I believe NSW had no new reported cases yesterday

We were lucky compared with other countries....We’re an island with a low population and long distances between population centres. We shut everything down quickly, enforced social distancing, a 14 day quarantine and it never really got a foot hold. There were a few mistake made, the biggest was the Ruby Princess cruise ship fiasco, which spread the virus nation wide, but we soon isolated everyone onboard and those who had social contact.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Davo on June 06, 2020, 04:25:20 PM
Davo-

Oz has been one of the few countries that had been steadfast during this crisis. Amazing how the Aussies seemed unaffected by the chaotic changes in guidance we were all subjected to. Well, maybe with the exception with the whole fascination on toilet paper. Oz has also been one of the first to dive into vaccine research the minute it received the genome from China.

Is the new revelation regarding HCQ covered in your media? It’s pretty much (relatively) censored here. There was literally 1 minute total of coverage from the 3 prime newscast channels *combined*

For the average Aussie not much phases us.... I guess you can call it our  “she’ll be right”  laid back mentally..... It can be a curse, but in this situation a benefit when you compare us with some of the hysteria in other countries.

The toilet paper issue was driven by the media after reporting on shortages overseas. We produce our own pulp and paper so the panic buying was ridiculous......we were never going to run out if it wasn’t for people hoarding. On the bright side it produced some funny memes and videos being passed around work.....in our typical self deprecating humour.

Our medical research industry and universities are world class. A local university was preparing for human trials months ago on vaccines. One of our biggest problems in keeping bright young minds in our country. Many chase more $$$ overseas and often our research lines the pocket of international Phama companies..... I guess this is common in lots of countries.

On the HCQ, the only reason I mentioned it was I caught the end of a radio report a few months ago......  some nurses and doctors were already taking it. I’ve heard nothing since except when I googled it for my reply. I guess they saw a benefit in it to conduct a trail
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Confederate on June 06, 2020, 06:30:59 PM
:ROFL:

That’s epic!

I think the idiot holding a sign that read *BLM! Defund the police* was the one that yelled “somebody call 911!”

Yeah, you just simply cannot make this stuff up.

The krim’s of this World simply have no clue that they have become windup dolls who will later be sacrificed.

Be careful what you wish for comes to mind.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 06, 2020, 10:18:04 PM
First somewhat intelligent post out of you in a good long while.

 :deadhorse:

You misunderstand.. I support what they're trying to say ... I just don't see why they need to go in the streets to prove how offended they are by the obvious standards set by a small minority of law enforcement officers who didn't belong in the force.

It's not just blacks lives that matter ...

Even the right of centre UK newspapers are shocked by this video of Buffalo Emergency Response VIOLENTLY pushing a 75 year old protestor to the ground, causing him to fall to the ground, and blood pours from his head ..

Two officers get suspended, pending an inquiry possible criminal investigations and the rest resign in 'protest'?  Now I realise we don't know the full story and the guy was a well known 'social activist' and it was just past curfew time ... but it looks BAD ..


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8390857/Two-Buffalo-police-officers-suspended-video-shows-shoving-elderly-man-ground.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPfl1JcLOwg
 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPfl1JcLOwg)




Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 06, 2020, 10:51:27 PM

Is the new revelation regarding HCQ covered in your media? It’s pretty much (relatively) censored here. There was literally 1 minute total of coverage from the 3 prime newscast channels *combined*

Why do you think it's 'censored' given your President is an advocate of the 'efficacy' of said med ..?  Just 'Google' "HCQ side effects" and you'll get hits about the retraction of the report you CLAIM is 'censored news'  :popcorn:

It's headline news, everywhere..

A few clueless people believe the UK's Guardian is 'lefty' and only investigates 'leftist' agendas ... ;) THEY broke the story..

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/04/covid-19-lancet-retracts-paper-that-halted-hydroxychloroquine-trials
 (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/04/covid-19-lancet-retracts-paper-that-halted-hydroxychloroquine-trials)


Could it be that only that 'trial / conclusion' of HCQ in relation to COVID-19 is discredited ... ?



http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30383-2/fulltext (http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30383-2/fulltext)

Unfavorable results from a chloroquine clinical trial led to death threats and animosity towards researchers in Brazil. Estella Ektorp reports.  I should point out that this was CQ, not HCQ .. But, one gets the impression that there are folks out there that REALLY want to believe in the likes of 'Trampu ' rather than science ..



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 06, 2020, 11:19:30 PM
Thanks to all the selfish tw*ts 'marching for George' and Police brutality when expressly banned from mass garherings for reasons of public safety..and sending the R number back up...

For those of us who have obeyed by staying at home and socially distancing...

More time in the basement for you eh ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 06, 2020, 11:28:37 PM
I don't actually see what this George Floyd thing has to do with us here in the UK. It seems these days it's any excuse to join in on a social media moral panic. I prefer it back in the day when an American domestic issue was an American issue and no concern of to us and vice versa.

Apparently this George Floyd guy had used a counterfeit note so for all we know could have been part of a violent drugs gang. Best wait till an investigation reveals whether he was innocent of such or not before going of half cocked me thinks. For all we know he may have had a violent criminal record.

In any case I think those breaking social distancing with rallies are likely to bump up the virus numbers assuming of course it hasn't already run its course. Odds are because if the many black people at these rallies they will be most at risk and more of them could die as a result.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 06, 2020, 11:51:16 PM
I prefer it back in the day when an American domestic issue was an American issue and no concern of to us and vice versa.

What days were those?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/17/newsid_2818000/2818967.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/17/newsid_2818000/2818967.stm)

"1968: Anti-Vietnam demo turns violent
More than 200 people have been arrested after thousands of demonstrators clashed in an anti-Vietnam war protest outside the United States embassy in London."




In any case I think those breaking social distancing with rallies are likely to bump up the virus numbers assuming of course it hasn't already run its course.

1/ IF you bothered to read, you'd know that the R numbers are going UP ( not down )

2/ The irony of a guy who was driving back and forth across five counties to visit his parents during lockdown now suggesting 'righteous indignation' is not lost on those who've read your 'defending' such behaviour ..




PS : Here's an example of  Trench on 'ignore' .... I don't see one post, but the one below is in plain sight !;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 07, 2020, 06:07:22 AM
oh no...
oh no...no...no...
the Oxford scientific establishment has come out against hydroxy
calling it useless...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine/uk-halts-trial-of-hydroxychloroquine-in-covid-19-patients-after-no-benefit-found-idUSKBN23C1YM

so that means they’re anti-Trump, right bastards they are!

well cheerio, keep a stiff upper lip and carry-on, mustn’t grumble
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Confederate on June 07, 2020, 08:00:30 AM
oh no...
oh no...no...no...
the Oxford scientific establishment has come out against hydroxy
calling it useless...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine/uk-halts-trial-of-hydroxychloroquine-in-covid-19-patients-after-no-benefit-found-idUSKBN23C1YM

so that means they’re anti-Trump, right bastards they are!

well cheerio, keep a stiff upper lip and carry-on, mustn’t grumble

Does the scientific establishment also condemn your drugs of choice?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 07, 2020, 10:08:55 AM
oh boy, yet another chance for you to display your ignorance...
you should be the poster boy for the dangers of what a lack of education will do to your future
since the scientific community were the ones who helped create and produce them
I would say that should be considered an implied endorsement
I, OTOH, made the decision to use them for “off-label” use
my life is just fine, thank you for asking - how’s being a lonely, povery stricken incel full of racial resentment (penis envy no doubt) working out for you?
what happens to you next year when you have trouble paying the rent?
meanwhile, keep dreamin of that Russian woman, or ANY woman for that matter...
tick tock, tick tock....

PS
"Meanwhile somewhere in America a Latino store owner has had enough."

He SAW the protestors!!!



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Faux Pas on June 07, 2020, 11:21:46 AM
:deadhorse:

You misunderstand.. I support what they're trying to say ... I just don't see why they need to go in the streets to prove how offended they are by the obvious standards set by a small minority of law enforcement officers who didn't belong in the force.



So, they should just stay home and riot? Tear up and destroy their own s*it?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 07, 2020, 12:28:51 PM
So, they should just stay home and riot? Tear up and destroy their own s*it?

 :wallbash:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 07, 2020, 02:58:32 PM
Interesting stuff going on in the UK today, statue of a 17th century slave trader torn down by protesters in Bristol and thrown into the harbour:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52954305

Just have to see how that all plays out. Perhaps they could erect a statue of me in its place :D

Guessing we'll find out in about a week's time if numbers of virus cases have gone up from the protesters that turned out.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 07, 2020, 04:22:39 PM

you cannot say that I am wrong
until you can tell me what is right
every generation must know its own suffering
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on June 09, 2020, 05:13:52 AM
Returning to the topic of the thread, the entire nation needs to come out of lockdown, make masks mandatory, and implement a mass program of measuring  body temperature of the public. 

See:  http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24136.msg536779#msg536779

Another step is required too. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 09, 2020, 11:36:14 AM
Returning to the topic of the thread, the entire nation needs to come out of lockdown, make masks mandatory, and implement a mass program of measuring  body temperature of the public. 

See:  http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24136.msg536779#msg536779

Another step is required too.

I agree, I think definitely for supermarkets, DIY and other big stores and large internal public areas masks should be mandatory. Over the past week I've had idiots inside Supermarket's and DIY stores I've been in just being clueless about social distancing no matter how many times it's been said on TV etc about keeping 2 meters apart and being signed up and marked out. A lot are following it but there are some people that are just too dumb in this world to follow. Fortunately I always wear a good quality professional mask in these environments as I know what twits the world has seen fit to create, but still it would be nice for them to keep to the 2 meters as well. In one supermarket there was one twit who went running down the isle up behind everyone including myself, another some scroate woman stood right near me at the checkout, I had to try and get it through her thick skull to move away. Both were in their early middle age I would say.

Here in the UK with the recent protests and I guess in the US too it will be a case of watching to see if there is a rapid spread of the virus among the black community. If this does or does not show up in a week or so's time it could be quite telling.

In South America it looks like the virus is beginning to take hold quite bad and might even surpass the high levels seen in western Europe.

So still more to learn about all of this I reckon.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on June 09, 2020, 11:59:29 AM

As the coronavirus strips Russians of their income, some Russians are stripping off their clothes. Warning. Naked Russians in the news article video. May offend some people.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-chefs-naked-lockdown-protest-113251258.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Confederate on June 09, 2020, 01:31:31 PM
Returning to the topic of the thread, the entire nation needs to come out of lockdown, make masks mandatory, and implement a mass program of measuring  body temperature of the public. 

See:  http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24136.msg536779#msg536779

Another step is required too.

I believe masks should be entirely optional. Fauci himself stated they are symbolic.

Perhaps elderly should where them, IF they wish to. Whatever happens to personal responsibility and free will?

Oxygen is incredibly important for a healthy immune system. Wearing a mask causes hypoxia. Trees can breathe carbon dioxide, humans not so much.

Don’t worry, get outside in fresh air and sunshine. NY’s stay at home orders showed most who got infected; stayed at home.  :shock:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 09, 2020, 02:07:26 PM
I believe masks should be entirely optional. Fauci himself stated they are symbolic.

Perhaps elderly should where them, IF they wish to. Whatever happens to personal responsibility and free will?

Oxygen is incredibly important for a healthy immune system. Wearing a mask causes hypoxia. Trees can breathe carbon dioxide, humans not so much.

Don’t worry, get outside in fresh air and sunshine. NY’s stay at home orders showed most who got infected; stayed at home.  :shock:

For those who do not understand ..

A mask is not a respirator and there are few issues breathing, as they do not form a seal

A RESPIRATOR forms a seal and air is breatheed through a filter

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 09, 2020, 02:58:37 PM
For those who do not understand ..

A mask is not a respirator and there are few issues breathing, as they do not form a seal

A RESPIRATOR forms a seal and air is breatheed through a filter

What is a respirator? (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/respirator#:~:text=Definition%20of%20respirator,or%20bacteria)%20from%20inhaled%20air)

a mask or device worn over the mouth and nose to protect the respiratory system by filtering out dangerous substances (such as dusts, fumes, or bacteria) from inhaled air

NOTE: *Particulate respirator masks* are only able to filter out particles and are not effective against gases or vapors. A numerical rating (such as 95 or 99) is sometimes assigned to such a respirator to indicate the percentage of particles filtered. A letter may also be assigned to indicate whether it is somewhat resistant (R), not resistant (NR), or strongly resistant (P) to the degrading effects of oil on proper respirator function.

For Americans:

http://www.fisherphillips.com/resources-alerts-osha-issues-new-guidance-given-n95-mask

OSHA Issues New Guidance Given N95 Mask Shortage During COVID-19 Pandemic
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on June 09, 2020, 04:37:38 PM
The primary purpose of the mask is to prevent the wearer from spraying others with droplets from nose and mouth.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 09, 2020, 04:43:49 PM
primary?
did I hear someone say the word Primary

remember, it's both who votes that counts
AND
who counts the votes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ5ZL-p2v08

awwww. I see what's gonna happen there....
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on June 09, 2020, 05:21:25 PM

Harvard Medical School Study uses satellite imagery to conclude virus in Wuhan was spreading as early as August. They noticed hospital parking lots in Wuhan were more full than the same time last year.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/satellite-images-of-wuhan-may-suggest-coronavirus-was-spreading-as-early-as-august/ar-BB15dy6n?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 10, 2020, 06:39:57 AM

Not really sure why a Danish would know anything really about Sweden in particula r,

OK, how about ( at lot)  Swedes ?

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/swedens-strategy-for-herd-immunity-has-failed-39270980.html (http://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/swedens-strategy-for-herd-immunity-has-failed-39270980.html)

Sweden's strategy for herd immunity 'has failed'

Sweden's opposition MPs have said the country's Covid-19 herd immunity strategy has "failed miserably" and demanded the resignation of the chief epidemiologist.

http://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN~DEU~ITA~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA (http://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN~DEU~ITA~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA)

Sweden has regained the 'crown' from the UK ...for killing it's citizens through 'experimentation' ...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Nightwish on June 10, 2020, 12:27:46 PM
OK, how about ( at lot)  Swedes ?

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/swedens-strategy-for-herd-immunity-has-failed-39270980.html (http://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/swedens-strategy-for-herd-immunity-has-failed-39270980.html)

Sweden's strategy for herd immunity 'has failed'

Sweden's opposition MPs have said the country's Covid-19 herd immunity strategy has "failed miserably" and demanded the resignation of the chief epidemiologist.

http://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN~DEU~ITA~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA (http://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN~DEU~ITA~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA)

Sweden has regained the 'crown' from the UK ...for killing it's citizens through 'experimentation' ...

and again msfail - herd immunity was never the strategy

what ever strategy was used, it has failed, but as I pointed out to you with several sources, heard immunity was never one of them- learn to take in facts before you write anything
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 10, 2020, 12:36:27 PM
Nightwish,

I v.simply countered your 'assertion' but you ignored it ..

Basically, someone else on here posted a 'discussion' between the UK's expert ( who had to resign because he couldn't obey laws he helped create ) Neil Ferguson and Johan Giesecke.

You'll need to address THEM as the term 'herd immunity' was used by Giesecke and I note you've FAILED to discuss the ( STILL ) high ( compared to your neighbours ) death rates.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on June 10, 2020, 12:45:24 PM
the term 'herd immunity' was used by Giesecke



Regardless if one or a few people used the term "herd immunity", it was never Sweden's strategy. They took measures to flatten the curve although it wasn't as much as their neighbors. You're a victim of both right and left wing media claiming Sweden is attempting herd immunity.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 10, 2020, 12:56:40 PM
'Ri-ight'...Silly Billy,

So the policy makers / influencers using the term ( who speak ENGLISH) were 'mistaken'...  'Ok' ignoring the FACT that the Swedes and Brits have got this VERY wrong and many folks have died needlessly, it wasn't 'at all' a failed experiment ...

In the UK the govt is trying to pretend they haven't f'd up ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKNpCBBuVws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKNpCBBuVws)

Here's the guy who persuaded the UK govt to realise ;heard immunity ' was a DUMB experiment ..

"Infection rates were doubling every 3-4 days before lockdown and if we had implimented 'lockdown' a week earlier, we would have reduced the death toll by at least a half ."

.






Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Confederate on June 10, 2020, 01:00:21 PM
Herd immunity is the only way forward and lockdowns only delay the inevitable whilst destroying economies and lives.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 10, 2020, 01:02:11 PM
you first!!
i'll go the vaccine route and see how that works out!!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Nightwish on June 10, 2020, 01:05:43 PM
Nightwish,

I v.simply countered your 'assertion' but you ignored it ..

Basically, someone else on here posted a 'discussion' between the UK's expert ( who had to resign because he couldn't obey laws he helped create ) Neil Ferguson and Johan Giesecke.

You'll need to address THEM as the term 'herd immunity' was used by Giesecke and I note you've FAILED to discuss the ( STILL ) high ( compared to your neighbours ) death rates.

uhhhhh msfail..

Giesecke was a state epidemiologist from 1995-2005.
He is not employed by public health authority anymore, so..... why would he know just bcs he HAS been employed or that he is a expert, because I have seen a LOT of experts on TV make ASSumptions like you do now.

And why would I discuss the high death rates? I don't agree with how this has been managed, I never said this was the right way, I have criticized "our" way to handle this from the beginning, so what do you want to discuss? Your failures and all the times you are wrong about - well - anything more or less? Because that would take up a lot of wasted space.

I am simply pointing out that you AGAIN are wrong..
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Confederate on June 10, 2020, 01:17:49 PM
you first!!
i'll go the vaccine route and see how that works out!!!

Most likely we have both already been exposed to it and built up our immune system.

Until they spray us with the next bioengineered weapon, we’re okay.

See you on the dark side of the moon.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 10, 2020, 02:23:55 PM
oh, relax dewd...
I'm not worried...
about YOU!!!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Confederate on June 10, 2020, 03:36:47 PM
oh, relax dewd...
I'm not worried...
about YOU!!!!

Good to know (As if there was ever any doubt).

 :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 10, 2020, 04:55:54 PM
Well after all of this I'm guessing we'll know a lot more about viruses and how they work than we did before. Could have an impact on understanding the spread of colds and flu.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 10, 2020, 05:56:58 PM
a good place to learn is at a Russian vaccine klinik
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 10, 2020, 08:53:36 PM
Herd immunity is the only way forward and lockdowns only delay the inevitable whilst destroying economies and lives.

This is why you are such a wack-job ..

In the face of ALL the evidence that 'herd immunity' is a HUGE mistake - you persist in the notion it's the 'only way forward' ..


A sensible person would realise the nations that tried have killed more citizens and haven't got a greater percentage of citizens with anti-bodies present.


They'd also know that there are thousands of variants and we simply don't know if having had a variant, if you're immune to being reinfected with another.

 

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 11, 2020, 03:16:48 AM
uhhhhh msfail..

Giesecke was a state epidemiologist from 1995-2005.

and when did I claim, he was STILL THE official state epidemiologist ?


and again msfail - herd immunity was never the strategy

'Ri-ight'..

You seem to be arguing a VERY lost argument ..

Let's not take my word for it, as I'm a 'liar' and not a Swede..

How about this UK Torygraph article, by Mark Brolin - who claims to be ..Swedish ..?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/09/coronavirus-fiasco-serving-wake-up-call-many-betrayed-swedes/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/09/coronavirus-fiasco-serving-wake-up-call-many-betrayed-swedes/)

The strongest public defender of the herd immunity strategy, Johan Giesecke (state epidemiologist 1995-2005), suddenly appears to be allowed only a backseat role



Again, we had another member on here, who is conspicuous by their silence pointing, out Neil Ferguson ( UK) v ( also conspicuously silent ) Johan Giesecke

what ever strategy was used, it has failed, but as I pointed out to you with several sources, heard immunity was never one of them- learn to take in facts before you write anything

I think some might suggest you should stop digging , given you can't won't see you're in a hole that is going to take some climbing out of..

He is not employed by public health authority anymore, so..... why would he know just bcs he HAS been employed or that he is a expert, because I have seen a LOT of experts on TV make ASSumptions like you do now.

Ah, so Mark Brolin is 'lying', too ..? 

"(after having over recent months been engaged as a highly visible Swedish Health Agency consultant). "

And why would I discuss the high death rates? I don't agree with how this has been managed, I never said this was the right way, I have criticized "our" way to handle this from the beginning, so what do you want to discuss? Your failures and all the times you are wrong about - well - anything more or less? Because that would take up a lot of wasted space.

I am simply pointing out that you AGAIN are wrong..

That would be funny, if this wasn't so serious ...

Our respective govts have made a ginormous mistake 

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Nightwish on June 11, 2020, 05:22:41 AM
and when did I claim, he was STILL THE official state epidemiologist ?


'Ri-ight'..

You seem to be arguing a VERY lost argument ..

Let's not take my word for it, as I'm a 'liar' and not a Swede..

How about this UK Torygraph article, by Mark Brolin - who claims to be ..Swedish ..?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/09/coronavirus-fiasco-serving-wake-up-call-many-betrayed-swedes/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/09/coronavirus-fiasco-serving-wake-up-call-many-betrayed-swedes/)

The strongest public defender of the herd immunity strategy, Johan Giesecke (state epidemiologist 1995-2005), suddenly appears to be allowed only a backseat role



Again, we had another member on here, who is conspicuous by their silence pointing, out Neil Ferguson ( UK) v ( also conspicuously silent ) Johan Giesecke

I think some might suggest you should stop digging , given you can't won't see you're in a hole that is going to take some climbing out of..

Ah, so Mark Brolin is 'lying', too ..? 

"(after having over recent months been engaged as a highly visible Swedish Health Agency consultant). "

That would be funny, if this wasn't so serious ...

Our respective govts have made a ginormous mistake

Are you really this stupid? Or can't you take in, understand and digest fact?
I even written in English, what is suppose to be YOUR native language, what is said in the articles.

And still you argue against me? You really are the most stupid wanker I ever encountered.  distinguishing facts from your own delusions is not your strong suite.

You don't understand that the state epidemiologist together with Swedish National Health Authority and the government is the ones setting the strategy and not independent experts or old employees interviewed in the press?  Simple question, do you understand this fact? Yes or No?


http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statsepidemiolog
2013–: Anders Tegnell

http://svenska.yle.fi/artikel/2020/04/04/nej-sveriges-strategi-ar-inte-flockimmunitet-men-flockimmunitet-ar-enda-sattet
Quote
No, Sweden's strategy is not herd immunity - "But herd immunity is the only way to stop the spread", says the state epidemiologist
http://www.mariestadstidningen.se/2020/03/26/flockimmunitet-en-oundviklig-konsekvens/
Quote
However, state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell denies that flock immunity is a goal in itself with the measures Sweden is now taking to curb the spread of infection.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/RRVeA2/22-forskare-om-flockimmunitet-ar-en-orealistisk-strategi
Quote
At the Swedish National Health Authority's daily press conference on Thursday, Sara Byfors, head of laboratory bacterial surveillance, states that the Swedish strategy has never been to achieve herd immunity without slowing down the spread of infection.

- Heard immunity is not something we strive for, but it is a fact that the more people who have had the disease, the fewer can spread it.

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 11, 2020, 06:35:02 AM
the virus will be like a bellows
that blows cool air over the burning embers
and stirs into into a raging inferno
all cracks shall become canyons
and that which was built up
shall be torn down
and left in ashes

a great period of destruction is coming in about 6 more months
a worse case scenario...

my top priorities

1. fireproof roof (will be complete tomorrow, man that was loud!)
2. shatter proof windows coming next
3. reinforced doors and new reinforced door frames, battering ram proof!!
4. multi-floor fire protection system
5. generac 15 KW for power protection
6. keep accumulating ammunition, this is “notgeld” currency for the state of Texas in a couple of more years along with silver coins and bars, so get these to!
7. keep your gold buried somewhere, it would be very dangerous spending a kreugerrand at the local swap meet, you have to make an arrangement with someone to trade for silver and ammo, then go shopping!

before my kids leave, they are helping me dig deep holes in our back yard and in the forest
and use for punji stick traps!!
I am also adding razors on the back of the  punji sticks, combined with homemade long metal spikes sharpened finer than an ice pick, and smeared in cow dung
motion sensing lights on all sides, plus dog confined to one part of the back yard
and a crazy MFer with night vision and a fully automatic rifle dressed head to toe in black
welcome to Trump land
now WTF are you doin in my yard?

PS, Trump is getting ready to declare the pandemic "over with" a few weeks from now, and begin holding his rally and will not allow anyone to wear masks and attend the ralley
so better to control the perception, rather than the reality
Texas has decided to go that route as well about two weeks ago
AND...
we now have a record high of Corona
and of course the protest peak is yet to come but should be here pretty soon

the winter is gonna be freakin brutal
3rd peak, the biggest by far, will start in early October, just 4 months from now
the fate of the whole world rests on the outcome of this peak
don't ya'll understand this?



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 11, 2020, 06:47:44 AM
Are you really this stupid? Or can't you take in, understand and digest fact?
I even written in English, what is suppose to be YOUR native language, what is said in the articles.

And you still you argue against me? You really are the most stupid wanker I ever encountered.  distinguishing facts from your own delusions is not your strong suite.

You don't understand that the state epidemiologist together with Swedish National Health Authority and the government is the ones setting the strategy and not independent experts or old employees interviewed in the press?  Simple question, do you understand this fact? Yes or No?

I'll have to assume that as English is not your first language, that your writing ability is 'better' than your reading, given STUPID is your 'riposte' ....


In reverse order:

1/ I understand that YOU do not realise that a former state epidemiologist, Johan Giesecke was contracted by the Swedish govt and with Anders Tegnell ( current) backed a plan of herd immunity ..not 'heard' ..herd..as in a group of animals co-existing in close proximity ... implication of this life style being safety ..

2/ YOU deny 'herd immunity' was an aim and suggested Danes and myself 'didn't understand... so what's your 'excuse', re Mark Brolin?..  It's clear he's Swedish and he specifically mentions what you deny ..

3/ http://www.mariestadstidningen.se/2020/03/26/flockimmunitet-en-oundviklig-konsekvens/

You find an article from nearly 3 months ago, and we now know that less than 10 percent of Stockholm have anti-bodies present  ( Fact fail #1) 

4/ http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/RRVeA2/22-forskare-om-flockimmunitet-ar-en-orealistisk-strategi

Although the Public Health Agency has repeatedly stated that the strategy is not herd immunity, the researchers believe that the tone has changed in recent weeks.

"It now seems that herd immunity is the way in which the epidemic will be fought in Sweden."

Again and article that is three weeks old and Belgium's death is now FAR below Sweden's ( a factor of 2.5 times ) ( fact fail #2)






Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Nightwish on June 11, 2020, 07:46:19 AM
I'll have to assume that as English is not your first language, that your writing ability is 'better' than your reading, given STUPID is your 'riposte' ....


In reverse order:

1/ I understand that YOU do not realise that a former state epidemiologist, Johan Giesecke was contracted by the Swedish govt and with Anders Tegnell ( current) backed a plan of herd immunity ..not 'heard' ..herd..as in a group of animals co-existing in close proximity ... implication of this life style being safety ..

2/ YOU deny 'herd immunity' was an aim and suggested Danes and myself 'didn't understand... so what's your 'excuse', re Mark Brolin?..  It's clear he's Swedish and he specifically mentions what you deny ..

3/ http://www.mariestadstidningen.se/2020/03/26/flockimmunitet-en-oundviklig-konsekvens/

You find an article from nearly 3 months ago, and we now know that less than 10 percent of Stockholm have anti-bodies present  ( Fact fail #1) 

4/ http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/RRVeA2/22-forskare-om-flockimmunitet-ar-en-orealistisk-strategi

Although the Public Health Agency has repeatedly stated that the strategy is not herd immunity, the researchers believe that the tone has changed in recent weeks.

"It now seems that herd immunity is the way in which the epidemic will be fought in Sweden."

Again and article that is three weeks old and Belgium's death is now FAR below Sweden's ( a factor of 2.5 times ) ( fact fail #2)

stupid is the only way to describe you without using stronger words which would suite better.

you swerve, dodge and change narrative every freaking time you are busted with a lie or wrongful ASSumption, admit it for ONCE you are wrong about the Swedish strategy.

I don't care how you came to that conclusion or how many experts swedish or foreign that has said this and made argument this is the swedish strategy when the Head of department and all the employees tells us over and over again - no that is not the Strategy - when asked by reporters.

It still means you are wrong!

Mark Brolin?  ehhh - well.. he is like you also wrong! and as far as I know NOT employed by the Public health agency,  and according to himself not a state Epidemiologist who would have any knowledge.
"I am an independent British-Swedish political analyst, economist and author who have had the opportunity to work within both the public and private sectors. "

You are both stupid and wrong. Every Single Time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 11, 2020, 08:53:28 AM
stupid is the only way to describe you without using stronger words which would suite better.

you swerve, dodge and change narrative every freaking time you are busted with a lie or wrongful ASSumption, admit it for ONCE you are wrong about the Swedish strategy.

Ri-ight ..

given I point-by-point bust your nonsensical 'ripostes'..

I don't care how you came to that conclusion or how many experts swedish or foreign that has said this and made argument this is the swedish strategy when the Head of department and all the employees tells us over and over again - no that is not the Strategy - when asked by reporters.

It still means you are wrong!

Mark Brolin?  ehhh - well.. he is like you also wrong!and as far as I know NOT employed by the Public health agency,  and according to himself not a state Epidemiologist who would have any knowledge.
"I am an independent British-Swedish political analyst, economist and author who have had the opportunity to work within both the public and private sectors. "

You are both stupid and wrong.

1/ You TRIED and FAILED to tell me I wasn't Swedish and didn't understand, why I KEEP proving Sweden HAS adopted the Herd Immunity murderous experiment ..

2/ you tried to tell us a former Epidemiologist wasn't contracted by the Swedish govt and he's gone on record having a very public bust up with a UK Epidemiologist...

3/ When I find a Swede ( who I guess speaks Swedish ) and HE tells us Sweden had adopted the 'Herd Immunity' approach, your only 'counter' is, " he isn't an Epidemiologist" ))


4/ You post links that BUST your contention

5/ Your nation 'leads'  the developed world in needlessly murdering it's citizens ( one of mine is not much better and the govt is also, now, in denial ) and Swedes, like Brits, are not too welcome..

Conclusion? :

Sweden, like the UK, has REALLY got it wrong




Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 11, 2020, 10:40:04 AM
we’re gonna be IN REAL TROUBLE pretty soon
in like 6 months or so...
the pandemic’s 2nd exponential rise during flu season
coupled with a HUGE economic decline in GDP and employment
and collapsing supply chains
will mean we’ll be in a level below the great depression
coupled with a sharp rise in covid and flu cases
meanwhile, the 2020 election becomes the most chaotic and disrupted in history
no clear winner can be announced...
Trump declares emergency rule
holds up bible
and says to all Americans, “do me a favor though...”

Future historians will be asked which quarter of 2020 they specialize in.
WTF happened to my country?

at least Russia is actually trying to protect the infrastructure their survival depends upon
like food and medical production/distribution and strategic production centers
by setting up extreme quarantining, with whole self-sufficient communities living cut-off from the rest of the world
maybe one out of a hundred who live on the inside are allowed on the outside, but they are quarantined for two weeks upon entry
Russia has maybe 1,000 places run on such a disciplined quarantine
and they are being networked together to be an alternative supply chain to the existing one which is expected to collapse
they can only save part of the country, not all

if you don't live on the inside
then you live on the outside and you may not even have power or water
by next year, Moscow will have bodies on the streets
but no one on the inside will even know about it, because their whole internet is controlled

Putin is forcing oligarchs back to Russia and to bring their money with them
they need to make him a deal
a piece, plus a LARGE sum of cash up front for which to purchase musical instruments
ergo...
my in-laws need to raise a sh%tload of money by next spring!!! or else, they're gonna be on the outside!!
so I'm turning over to them the biggest edible cannabis supply business in Moscva
with a business plan to expand it to a full national level
as a token of my esteem
and a kinda dowry
and frankly, the business probably woulda gotten me killed in another year or so...
glad for some gnarly Russian guys to take over!!

also, in partnership with a Chinese company, be a board member of a state-of-the art semiconductor company inside the biggest green zone in Moscva
and supply the technology for color night vision and FPGA semiconductor production technology
in exchange for expedited full Russian citizenship...
I'll have to wait and see what happens to my in-laws next year, before I make up my mind on this offer
or decline
it means I'd have to go on "the straight and narrow" in Russia
and live a reformed lifestyle
and even have a new legal identity



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 11, 2020, 11:42:51 AM
we’re gonna be IN REAL TROUBLE pretty soon
in like 6 months or so...
the pandemic’s 2nd exponential rise during flu season
coupled with a HUGE economic decline in GDP and employment
and collapsing supply chains
will mean we’ll be in a level below the great depression
coupled with a sharp rise in covid and flu cases
meanwhile, the 2020 election becomes the most chaotic and disrupted in history
no clear winner can be announced...
Trump declares emergency rule
holds up bible
and says to all Americans, “do me a favor though...”

Future historians will be asked which quarter of 2020 they specialize in.
WTF happened to my country?

at least Russia is actually trying to protect the infrastructure their survival depends upon
like food and medical production/distribution and strategic production centers
by setting up extreme quarantining, with whole self-sufficient communities living cut-off from the rest of the world
maybe one out of a hundred who live on the inside are allowed on the outside, but they are quarantined for two weeks upon entry
Russia has maybe 1,000 places run on such a disciplined quarantine
and they are being networked together to be an alternative supply chain to the existing one which is expected to collapse
they can only save part of the country, not all

if you don't live on the inside
then you live on the outside and you may not even have power or water
by next year, Moscow will have bodies on the streets
but no one on the inside will even know about it, because their whole internet is controlled

Putin is forcing oligarchs back to Russia and to bring their money with them
they need to make him a deal
a piece, plus a LARGE sum of cash up front for which to purchase musical instruments
ergo...
my in-laws need to raise a sh%tload of money by next spring!!! or else, they're gonna be on the outside!!
so I'm turning over to them the biggest edible cannabis supply business in Moscva
with a business plan to expand it to a full national level
as a token of my esteem
and a kinda dowry
and frankly, the business probably woulda gotten me killed in another year or so...
glad for some gnarly Russian guys to take over!!

also, in partnership with a Chinese company, be a board member of a state-of-the art semiconductor company inside the biggest green zone in Moscva
and supply the technology for color night vision and FPGA semiconductor production technology
in exchange for expedited full Russian citizenship...
I'll have to wait and see what happens to my in-laws next year, before I make up my mind on this offer
or decline
it means I'd have to go on "the straight and narrow" in Russia
and live a reformed lifestyle
and even have a new legal identity

You could get Mobes to come in on the project with you Krim! he's into all that electronic stuff. Hear the guy is straining like a whippet to get through those boarding gates and back into Russia ;D

Looks like your fears over the economy are shared by others Krim:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53015467

UK banking shares have also dropped a lot no doubt as a result of suspected mortgage defaults as the unemployment rises.

I'm still doing ok so far, have a house with no mortgage outside of of a city centre in a fairly rural area. Still in work so should with a bit off luck be able to complete work on my house and batten down the hatches. On the plus side if I wait for the right time I could even snatch up a bargain and do better out of it :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 11, 2020, 11:49:45 AM
Bargain to be had today, houses to be snapped up for €1 in Italy:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/travel/11835763/buy-house-italy-cheap-coronavirus/amp/

All Covid free!

Me & BC could become neighbours :D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 11, 2020, 02:23:03 PM
it’s almost like Trump voters have become  kamikazes
and are intent on sinking America
in a mass suicide attack for the emporer
the new “sieg heil” is not wearing a mask!!

an alternate reality to open America ALL THE WAY WIDE!!!  The virus is like so OVER now! 
this is gonna look like a color version of "Leave It To Beaver" America nostalgia for the RNC late August
no karry maska
no mask
all true believers must drink from the holy cup of trust
and hope your luck is not gonna let you down this time

cuz, if the stock market goes down then so does Trump
but don’t worry, need to make it go back up by whatever means necessary!
including forcing all lowly paid workers to return to work
and more and more people are currently without health insurance in Texas
it's about 1/4 and growing
while Corona cases are at a new and growing high

all all it takes is for just one state to say that it can’t count it’s vote properly
to throw off the results of the entire national election
and there will be no hand-off
but only more Trump, followed by President Ivanka
imagine there’s no country
it’s easy if you try



PS
back in the day when we worked outta the Western part of the Moscow Hills
West of City Center
we called ourselves “Sol ey Perets” or "Salt and Pepper"
I drssed in white and she dressed in black
here’s how Pepper looked...
she had my back
so I could never be outflanked
she preferred to fight with a double barrel shotgun with magnum buckshot loads
I carried an AK47 with a 90 round drum magazine
and an electronic solenoid trigger that has select fire controlled by a small microcomputer and a 2-pole switch
with steel core Russian rounds, I can COMPLETELY knock down the wall of a brick house!!!
it's a shredding machine of anything that gets in its way






Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 12, 2020, 12:44:00 AM
Some real bad economic news out today for the UK, a MASSIVE drop in the economy in April:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53019360

I think the government made a big mistake not keeping people at work with social distancing measures but instead paid for them to be out jogging around the block.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 12, 2020, 01:30:10 AM
Bargain to be had today, houses to be snapped up for €1 in Italy:


I notice you're still using amp hyperlinks to crappy tabloids with a reading age of nine yrs old...



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on June 12, 2020, 02:43:43 AM
I notice you're still using amp hyperlinks to crappy tabloids with a reading age of nine yrs old...

He also fails to understand that selling abandoned houses in the US for a dollar was a 'thing' in the 80's and in other countries to promote restoration of city areas long neglected.  Has nothing to do with the economy or virus.

Ol' Trench, trying again to make himself feel better by attempting to find fault in others.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 12, 2020, 02:59:08 AM
http://metro.co.uk/2020/06/12/coronavirus-seasonal-may-spread-easily-winter-12841904/


Another theory that may hold merit, but the Rep of Georgia is in the Caucuses..

Is Texas cold at the mo?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 12, 2020, 05:56:03 AM

I notice you're still using amp hyperlinks to crappy tabloids with a reading age of nine yrs old...

I didn't want to make it too difficult a task for you old man ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 12, 2020, 06:01:33 AM
He also fails to understand that selling abandoned houses in the US for a dollar was a 'thing' in the 80's and in other countries to promote restoration of city areas long neglected.  Has nothing to do with the economy or virus.

Ol' Trench, trying again to make himself feel better by attempting to find fault in others.

I never said it did, I just said it was Covid free, if anything a reason for it to go for more than a €1.

There seems to be other cases of this recently in Italy to regenerate areas falling short in population. Just think it could be a cheap way to get a holiday property in the sun in a picturesque area abroad. A FSW would be impressed and be none the wiser :D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 12, 2020, 06:02:58 AM

A FSW would be impressed and be none the wiser

..and there you have it ... 

She'd only be impressed so long ..( then discover your misogyny)  ..and you think 'getting her up the duff' will keep her .. :wallbash: )
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 12, 2020, 06:32:40 AM
http://metro.co.uk/2020/06/12/coronavirus-seasonal-may-spread-easily-winter-12841904/


Another theory that may hold merit, but the Rep of Georgia is in the Caucuses..

Is Texas cold at the mo?

I don't think it's seasonal, it's more to social distancing that numbers have decreased for the moment in western Europe.

It is interesting how Eastern Europe has been less affected so far, but then that may be about to change:

http://www.intellinews.com/coronavirus-infections-in-ukraine-set-daily-record-of-689-cases-185260/

Good to enough link for you Mobe? ;)

Also apparently President Zelensky's wife has caught the virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on June 12, 2020, 06:41:00 AM
Just think it could be a cheap way to get a holiday property in the sun in a picturesque area abroad. A FSW would be impressed and be none the wiser :D

Irrelevant.  Even at 1 EUR you can't afford it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 12, 2020, 08:53:29 AM
Trenchcoat is 'more' right than wrong about Italy's economic state. Even before the pandemic, Italy's economy is basically dead on the water. Its economic state by 2024 is projected to be even lower than it was back in 2007.

EU bailing them out will be very limited, if any. Italy's debt at 130% of its GDP is catastrophic, and with the prospect of dimmer recovery due to the pandemic, they're in for a very steep climb to just be in the same 2007 level.

Hence, the Chinese dependency.

http://econlife.com/2020/03/6-facts-on-the-italian-economy/
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 12, 2020, 11:05:39 AM
Trenchcoat is 'more' right than wrong about Italy's economic state.


Trench supports 'Brexit' ..that makes him an IDIOT ..


Even before the pandemic, Italy's economy is basically dead on the water. Its economic state by 2024 is projected to be even lower than it was back in 2007.

The UK has already regressed over 20% ... Italy will still be in THE biggest trading block, while clueless BoJo attempts to help those betting short on a huge GBP collapse and has confirmed 'no extension of transition' and crashing out of the EU ,, despite the pleas of Commerce and Industry and the objections of Scotland, Wales and N;.reland

Trench's property will crash in value

EU bailing them out will be very limited, if any. Italy's debt at 130% of its GDP is catastrophic, and with the prospect of dimmer recovery due to the pandemic, they're in for a very steep climb to just be in the same 2007 level.

I wish Sandro was around... I feel quite sure, he'd be putting your right ..  EVERYONE is in for a steep curve, given the layoffs and plant closures.


Hence, the Chinese dependency.


Now, I get it .. you're quoting from a 3-month old article ..

China is a big player in the UK economy .. funding major infrastructure protects like nuke power stations ..in fact the UK was THE biggest recipient of Chinese investment, last year.

Your 'expertise' on things Europe always astounds ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on June 12, 2020, 12:13:46 PM

Trench supports 'Brexit' ..that makes him an IDIOT ..

If over half of UK's voters are idiots, there is no hope for UK's future.   From where will the creativity, individual initiative,  communication, problem solving, competitive drive, etc. derive needed to make UK a leader among nation?   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 12, 2020, 01:06:04 PM
destroy everything you touch, today
join me
this way
everything you touch

Confederate, old friend!
look here’s some advice!
throw out ALL your old underwear!!
the ones with the “off-color” bottoms
you know what  I mean...
and get brand new underwear!

yes!
NOW, you’re too sexy for your hat,
too sexy for your hat
whatcha think about that?

are you too sexy for your shirt?
too sexy for your shirt?
So sexy it hurts?


Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 12, 2020, 01:21:09 PM
Funny....

My post said:

>>Trenchcoat is 'more' right than wrong about Italy's economic state.1 Even before the pandemic2, Italy's economy is basically dead on the water. Its economic state by 2024 is projected to be even lower than it was back in 2007.

EU bailing them out will be very limited, if any. Italy's debt at 130% of its GDP is catastrophic, and with the prospect of dimmer recovery due to the pandemic, they're in for a very steep climb to just be in the same 2007 level.3

Hence, the Chinese dependency.


**********************************************************************
To which the usual suspect, despite the post having nothing to do with him, said:

Trench supports 'Brexit' ..that makes him an IDIOT ..

The UK has already regressed over 20% ... Italy will still be in THE biggest trading block, while clueless BoJo attempts to help those betting short on a huge GBP collapse and has confirmed 'no extension of transition' and crashing out of the EU ,, despite the pleas of Commerce and Industry and the objections of Scotland, Wales and N;.reland

Trench's property will crash in value

He talked about 'Brexit', Boris Johnson, the UK, Scotland, Wales, a sheep pasture, trenchcoat's property value.....

Then, in the end, he said: 
Quote
Your 'expertise' on things Europe always astounds ..

:ROFL:

It's really is clinical, folks! He just can't help it. It's beyond hope.

Quote
I wish Sandro was around... I feel quite sure, he'd be putting your right ..  EVERYONE is in for a steep curve, given the layoffs and plant closures.

Well, FWIW...simply having Sandro around would be wonderful, period! May he rest in peace...

Quote
Now, I get it .. you're quoting from a 3-month old article ..

SURPRISE!!! What gave it away from my post? When I said "even BEFORE the pandemic"? LMAO!

Quote
China is a big player in the UK economy .. funding major infrastructure protects like nuke power stations ..in fact the UK was THE biggest recipient of Chinese investment, last year.

It was about ITALY, 'homes...I-T-A-L-Y!!! Are you okay? All faculties functioning?

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 12, 2020, 01:22:11 PM
If over half of UK's voters are idiots, there is no hope for UK's future.

I'd agree

  From where will the creativity, individual initiative,  communication, problem solving, competitive drive, etc. derive needed to make UK a leader among nation?   

Good question ... IF you knew.. most financial institutions have been moving key staff to Ireland, Germany Luxembourg ..and even 'Brexiteers' have been busy opening offices in ( say ) Dublin )  or Germany to prove they are full of it ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on June 12, 2020, 04:14:18 PM

Good question ...most financial institutions have been moving key staff to Ireland, Germany Luxembourg



Why would these countries accept someone with a 50% probability of being an idiot?   ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 12, 2020, 08:49:00 PM
bunker Art

in the floor above my bunker...
out in the sunlight
a barely remembered Texas summer

tomorrow....

I have to leave the bunker
to fetch groceries ordered for
curbside pickup...
I leave an envelope with a tip
for the person who loads it into the back of my wife’s Acura (now armor plated!)
and I do this once per week

then,
I go to the hardware store
and buy wire, nails, motion sensing lights, more rechargable battery’s, lights
and also go to the closest sporting good store once per week
and buy the maximum limits of ammo
and keep stockpiling 9mm, 22 LR, 38 special/357

debating whether or not I should do things
like buy 10,000 high quality BIC lighters
and put them in long term sealed storage for two years
and then sell them for a HUGE profit or trade

I’ve made a few good silver deals lately!
when will precious metal refinery’s open again?

15 KW Generac on its own concrete pad
gives me two freezers and one full refrigerator with 100 % guaranteed power with HVAC and lighting, internet and TV and 24/7 Security Monitoring!!
automatic switch to power from natural gas during extended blackouts
takes a couple of seconds to boot on/off
almost maintenance-free

fire-proof roof, tile with with underlying insulation/retardant material
next up is shatter-proof armored windows
and then new reinforced door frames
and new steel doors

followed by a multi-floor fire protection system

this is called being at least semi-prepared
will have a minimum of 6 months of food, but probably closer to a year's worth, six months from now
a LOT of supply chains are gonna snap

I'm expecting huge riots over things like food, massive looting and fires
it will be dangerous to leave your house during this period

last week, when I was driving in downtown Houston
I saw a huge group of protestors
and I decided to drive around them!!
but it was a crowd of thousands!

imagine this many people coming at you at once
and they're armed with baseball bats, knives, guns
and molotov cocktails

but that could never happen...





Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 13, 2020, 01:42:25 AM
That's some great artwork Krim :)

Anyway, bad news for Italy and possibly the rest of us today:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euroweeklynews.com/2020/06/13/italys-covid-19-cases-rise-again-infections-throughout-the-country/amp/

More amp stuff for you Mobers, I know how you love it ;D

This news means that from when lockdown started to be eased their cases went up. That means their easing of lockdown didn't work in getting the economy back on track while keeping infection rate below R. Their official numbers might have suggested they were but they were wrong. There is some big pointers here on what our gov needs to do to avoid the same. Essentially we should be looking to go a lot more gingerly with easing lockdown than what we are. We should immediately curtail all social gatherings and focus like a laser on just getting the economy up and running, that is most important.

Italy is essentially finished, their debt to GDP ration was dangerous close to being too much to stand any chance of repayment before the crises. Now it will be so high and their economy so weakened as to be impossible for them to repay. The EU will be unable to help Italy, they have their own debt and won't have the scope to bail Italy out, unlike Greece, Italy will be too big of a problem to bail out. Italy will have no option other than to default on its debt, declare bankruptcy and move on that way. The won't get any more credit and so will be forced into severe cuts in their budget. It's not going to be a pretty sight out their apart from the picturesque views from many €1 homes.

If Ukrainian girls will be getting desperate just think of the level Italian girls will have to go to, to get a few coppers in!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on June 13, 2020, 09:17:29 PM

The Coronavirus got it's first world leader.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/burundi-president-becomes-worlds-first-head-of-state-to-die-of-covid-confirm-medics-despite-government-officials-insisting-death-was-due-to-heart-attack/ar-BB15r0oC?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 14, 2020, 02:04:37 AM
New cases in China:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-53034924

Apparently after 50 days of no sign of virus and linked to a wholesale market. If this is a new source then it might help explain how the virus started.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 14, 2020, 10:20:15 AM
the American economy is crashing
the federal reserve is giving banks unlimited loans at almost zero percent cost
and it has bought most of the top 6 tech stocks to keep the market prices up
and to keep all asset prices up
I am going to try and sell one of my rental properties for about 10% off peak
this was a foreclosure HUD property I bought in 2008 for $89,100 at auction  + closing costs and spent about 20K in renovations
until recently this house rented for $2,000 per month
and property tax/insurance came to about $400 per month
with a 90% occupancy rate, this property paid for itself in under 7 years
while appreciating in price all the way to $300,000 now
if I sold at this price, I could net 150 OZ of GOLD!!
and bury this sh^t in the forest
with that kinda coin, I could get into ANY kinda post crash economy I want to
and when “law and order” starts to break down
there will be “many new opportunities” for opportunists with some coin
who are keen to the changes in the wind
and what future events these changes foretell

but it will be hard and brutal for many
in the days to come
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 15, 2020, 04:25:42 AM
the American economy is crashing
the federal reserve is giving banks unlimited loans at almost zero percent cost
and it has bought most of the top 6 tech stocks to keep the market prices up
and to keep all asset prices up
I am going to try and sell one of my rental properties for about 10% off peak
this was a foreclosure HUD property I bought in 2008 for $89,100 at auction  + closing costs and spent about 20K in renovations
until recently this house rented for $2,000 per month
and property tax/insurance came to about $400 per month
with a 90% occupancy rate, this property paid for itself in under 7 years
while appreciating in price all the way to $300,000 now
if I sold at this price, I could net 150 OZ of GOLD!!
and bury this sh^t in the forest
with that kinda coin, I could get into ANY kinda post crash economy I want to
and when “law and order” starts to break down
there will be “many new opportunities” for opportunists with some coin
who are keen to the changes in the wind
and what future events these changes foretell

but it will be hard and brutal for many
in the days to come

Almost complete meltdown is likely in many countries economies I think. Retail shops have started opening here in the UK today, big queues outside & Boris has been urging people to go out and spend to aid the economy. I think a lot of the damage has been done and now it's a case of waiting to see how far and how deep it will go on for. I'm somewhat fortunate so far as being in a sector not so susceptible to economic trade. However, even I would not change count my chickens as economic woes can hit anyone in many ways.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on June 15, 2020, 01:32:25 PM
Well after dodging the bullets of coronavirus for this long, the family has been struck.  Mother in law caught the virus and is battling it in Colombia. 

Fathertime!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 15, 2020, 01:52:40 PM
FT-

I hope your MIL gets well...and soon!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on June 15, 2020, 03:14:02 PM
Well after dodging the bullets of coronavirus for this long, the family has been struck.  Mother in law caught the virus and is battling it in Colombia. 

Fathertime!

Hope she gets well. Do you know how bad it is in Columbia? What kind of treatment is your MIL getting in the hospital if they even have room for her?  The closest it hit home for me is my step father's sister in law passed away from the virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 15, 2020, 11:57:06 PM
Well after dodging the bullets of coronavirus for this long, the family has been struck.  Mother in law caught the virus and is battling it in Colombia. 


Good morning, FT!

We might joust with each other, from time to time, but I am sure we all wish your M-i-L shakes it off and you can be a rock for the Missus'

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 16, 2020, 02:53:22 AM
So, where's all the MUPPETS who though HCQ was 'great' for treating COVID-19 .. :cluebat: ?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/51980731 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/51980731)

The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA), which had authorised the drug for emergency use in March, has now withdrawn it saying clinical trials had shown it was no longer reasonable to believe it would produce an antiviral effect.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on June 16, 2020, 05:23:54 AM

The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA), which had authorised the drug for emergency use in March, has now withdrawn it saying clinical trials had shown it was no longer reasonable to believe it would produce an antiviral effect.

Thanks for the info.  The prior news had been mixed, and clinical studies in your source have now concluded HCQ has no significant benefits for treating COVID.   FDA has withdrawn its emergency approval.   

It is disheartening that we have yet to find a therapeutic drug for COVID.  We need one to help those who become infected.   However, data from the past couple of months show the CFR (death) is declining.

BTW, scientific opinion says the viruses now being tested could prove "weak," meaning they will not prevent infection, albeit the infection will be less severe.   Let's keep our fingers crossed that an effective virus will be developed as well as effective treatment pharmaceuticals.   

Your family concerns should be alleviated now, and frankly should never have happened. 
Title: Volunteering to be exposed to Covid-19
Post by: ML on June 16, 2020, 06:53:25 AM
Don't know if this has been mentioned here by others, but . . .

Quite shocking to hear that tests may begin wherein subjects volunteer to be injected with Covid 19.

Prior to this injection, they will receive one of the variations of vaccines that are being developed.

(Note: this is different from other on-going experiments where vaccines are given, and subjects just go out into the world where they may or may not be exposed to Covid-19).

Apparently this is first time in history that tests like this are conducted where there is no known cure for the disease.

i.e.  Previously people have agreed to be subjected to malaria and other diseases (after receiving a vaccine), but in those cases, there was a proven treatment to cure the disease for those who caught it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 16, 2020, 07:16:17 AM
Thanks for the info.  The prior news had been mixed,

Thing is they weren't ..just the std of ONE trial was below par and the usual suspects seized upon it  :cluebat:

Your family concerns should be alleviated now, and frankly should never have happened.

Indeed, and 'Trampu' is also to blame for many who missed out and REALLY see efficacy from such meds ...
Title: Re: Volunteering to be exposed to Covid-19
Post by: BillyB on June 16, 2020, 08:26:56 AM
Quite shocking to hear that tests may begin wherein subjects volunteer to be injected with Covid 19.


This has to happen before release to the public. Everything is accelerated and I'm sure some animals have already been injected by some of the early vaccine candidates.

The goal is to create a safe and effective vaccine which is incredibly hard to do. Safe is more important than effective. What's the sense of getting rid of the coronavirus if we all end up with neurological disorders 5 years from now?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 16, 2020, 09:18:35 AM
Not sure why they bother with vaccines.

Hours after Oxford declared HCQ should be dropped as a treatment for COVID, they announced a breakthrough treatment medicine for coronavirus called Dexamethasone (http://www.bbc.com/news/health-53061281). It's still 'on trial' but....

To note: in BBC's article posted, it stated this little nugget:

Quote
The Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit (MORU) is conducting mass clinical trials and has enrolled 40,000 frontline workers in Europe, Africa, Asia and South America, giving participants either chloroquine, hydroxychloroquine or a placebo.

Professor Sir Nick White, who's leading the trial, said: "Most experts agree there is a much better chance of benefit in prevention than treatment."

Don't let little factoids ever get in the way of selective narrative. Davo mentioned Australia is conducting the same trial. Aussies have proved during this pandemic to move away from politics and do their studies diligently. I'd wait for the results of their studies, either as a treatment - properly administered as prescribed, and/or as prophylactic.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 17, 2020, 02:39:46 AM
News of a second post Coronavirus outbreak escalating in China:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-53074076

Will just have to wait and see whether this turns into something big and if anything can be learned about the source of the virus, apparently from a wholesale food market as far as is known so far on this one.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on June 17, 2020, 07:25:06 AM

Hours after Oxford declared HCQ should be dropped as a treatment for COVID, they announced a breakthrough treatment medicine for coronavirus called Dexamethasone (http://www.bbc.com/news/health-53061281). It's still 'on trial' but....

Positive news, yet not very significant based on this news item from NY Times:: 

Quote
It reduced the death rate of patients on ventilators by a third and patients on oxygen by a fifth.


As you correctly surmised, what is significant is your nugget:

Quote
  "Most experts agree there is a much better chance of benefit in prevention than treatment." 


We need a better condom for COVID-19 than wearing a mask.  The rate of daily new cases in Florida is higher than ever, almost 2x the rate seen in April.  This is explained partly by Florida testing at 3x the April rate.  Fortunately, deaths have declined significantly as if the current disease is not as potent, etc. 

This refutes  the theory held by some that the pandemic could subside with warmer weather.  It's hot in Florida and people are getting sick.   

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on June 17, 2020, 09:31:11 AM
The rate of daily new cases in Florida is higher than ever, almost 2x the rate seen in April.  This is explained partly by Florida testing at 3x the April rate.  Fortunately, deaths have declined significantly as if the current disease is not as potent, etc. 

This refutes  the theory held by some that the pandemic could subside with warmer weather.  It's hot in Florida and people are getting sick.

My second business sells desktop computers. Florida has over taken NY recently as the top destination of where I ship computers. More and more Floridians are staying home lately and are bored. Online shopping is increasing.

Flu viruses have a much greater chance to die in hot weather. SAR-COV-19 is related to the cold virus. We get still get colds in the Summer but we have less or no symptoms since our bodies get through the cold easier with  warmer weather.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 17, 2020, 11:11:03 AM

Hours after Oxford declared HCQ should be dropped as a treatment for COVID, they announced a breakthrough treatment medicine for coronavirus called Dexamethasone (http://www.bbc.com/news/health-53061281). It's still 'on trial' but....

GQB, is 'at it' again ..

'hours'..?

How about ELEVEN days ?

http://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/05/uk-trial-on-hydroxychloroquine-it-doesnt-work-303275 (http://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/05/uk-trial-on-hydroxychloroquine-it-doesnt-work-303275)  5th June, 2020

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-53061281 (http://www.bbc.com/news/health-53061281) 16th June, 2020

Don't let little factoids ever get in the way of selective narrative.

Or reality, eh ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 17, 2020, 11:35:48 AM

As you correctly surmised, what is significant is your nugget:

We need a better condom for COVID-19 than wearing a mask.  The rate of daily new cases in Florida is higher than ever, almost 2x the rate seen in April.  This is explained partly by Florida testing at 3x the April rate.  Fortunately, deaths have declined significantly as if the current disease is not as potent, etc. 

BINGO!!! Exactly my point!!!

It is always refreshing knowing there's folks out there that easily and fully understands the language they are born into. I'm not sure why this seem almost impossible for *some*.

It's so hysterical to have to explain to *some* folks statements written in their own language/s...mystifying really.

:devil:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 17, 2020, 11:39:42 AM
GQB, is 'at it' again ..

'hours'..?

How about ELEVEN days ?

http://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/05/uk-trial-on-hydroxychloroquine-it-doesnt-work-303275 (http://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/05/uk-trial-on-hydroxychloroquine-it-doesnt-work-303275)  5th June, 2020

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-53061281 (http://www.bbc.com/news/health-53061281) 16th June, 2020

Or reality, eh ?

Reference your OWN BBC link to the BBC link in my post...ye shall be enlightened.

If not have someone else read it for you for explanation.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 17, 2020, 11:51:25 AM
Reference your OWN BBC link to the BBC link in my post...ye shall be enlightened.

If not have someone else read it for you for explanation.

Would that be as 'Enlightened' as your ( and your President's) continued 'support' of  HCQ?

Indeed, you'll have to highlight my pointing out another 'failed factoid' from GQB ...



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on June 17, 2020, 01:12:07 PM
Would that be as 'Enlightened' as your ( and your President's) continued 'support' of  HCQ?

Indeed, you'll have to highlight my pointing out another 'failed factoid' from GQB ...

Deflection 101. Classic...
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 19, 2020, 10:50:04 PM
Looks like Coronavirus is only just getting going out in Russia:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/06/17/coronavirus-is-just-getting-started-in-some-russian-regions-their-wwii-parades-are-going-ahead-a70596

Worrying for anyone with loved ones out there surely.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 19, 2020, 11:16:09 PM
VERY, VVP is putting his bid for 'Tsardom' ( his 'referendum') on July 1st before the wishes of Governors of regions ...


Sochi is now fully open to infectious tourists from  regions with MUCH  higher infection rates .. ((

Deflection 101. Classic...

So, you took the time to suggest 'deflection' rather than 'proving you point'... ? :ROFL:

It is noted you would rather point out a posting typo than simply say, " I made a dick of myself re 'pushing' HCQ and trying to diss any trial that busted my misguided and ill-informed support re the efficacy of said med, in the face of those who had greater knowledge / experience, who patiently tried to put me straight" ..

There you go..your very own diversionary tosh, solved for you.... 



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on June 21, 2020, 08:38:14 PM
FT-

I hope your MIL gets well...and soon!
Thanks,
Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: fathertime on June 21, 2020, 08:41:32 PM
Hope she gets well. Do you know how bad it is in Columbia? What kind of treatment is your MIL getting in the hospital if they even have room for her?  The closest it hit home for me is my step father's sister in law passed away from the virus.
Apparently the virus is running wild in Colombia although the numbers don't appear terribly high.  They are under a very strict lockdown.  Wife and boy had to cancel scheduled trip there since nobody from US is allowed in, even citizens.   
No hospital, just toughing out the illness at home the old fashioned way.  For better or worse, hospitals will kill is the family attitude.

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 25, 2020, 11:53:10 AM
Cases back on the up throughout the world from Ukraine to Portugal to the US and South America many are halting their easing up and going back into lockdown or imposing new specific restrictions.

Texas is one case of that today:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/jun/25/coronavirus-live-news-who-warns-of-global-oxygen-shortage-as-cases-rise-by-1m-per-week

To me it doesn't look like they got lockdown easing up right and they are going to have to rethink how we all go about our business and leisure, if indeed we do much leisure at all while this virus is knocking around.

Lots of people out on the beaches down my way in Bournemouth today apparently social distancing went out the window. Fortunately I was not there among them as a big potential virus risk.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 26, 2020, 12:31:40 AM
A recent study showing that bad cases of Coronavirus can impact on the brain badly in several ways with likely long term health problems:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1301269/coronavirus-latest-news-effect-on-brain-study-stroke-uk-deaths-update/amp
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 26, 2020, 12:45:02 AM
Given the title of the thread , Trench, and your insistence of using AMP I'm wondering if your latest 'link' is your way of trying to tell us something ...?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on June 26, 2020, 12:56:14 AM
Cases back on the up throughout the world from Ukraine to Portugal to the US and South America many are halting their easing up and going back into lockdown or imposing new specific restrictions.

Wrong.  Many countries are doing very well fighting the virus with their citizens living and even enjoying life again with very few restrictions.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 26, 2020, 02:19:00 AM
Wrong.  Many countries are doing very well fighting the virus with their citizens living and even enjoying life again with very few restrictions.

That seems to be the problem BC, restrictions have been relaxed and people are out taking it too far with the enjoyment.

Well, well done everyone with passing the first wave! Now we've just got to get through the second wave that is hitting us/about to hit us.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 26, 2020, 02:31:30 AM
Wrong.  Many countries are doing very well fighting the virus with their citizens living and even enjoying life again with very few restrictions.

BC

I'm sorry to 'side' with Trench, but he has a point..

Portugal, Germany, Ireland, Wales, England ...to name but a few ...are having issues with HT spots, particularly and bizarrely at food processing plants.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on June 26, 2020, 03:36:24 AM
Moby,

Each of the countries you mentioned have less than 500 new cases per day with the exception of UK.  Yes the virus is not gone (including Italy with a couple hundred per day) but these numbers are, or should be well within track trace and isolate requirements.

Above 1000 and it gets really dicey.  Forget 40,000 which is an impossible task.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 26, 2020, 03:49:53 AM
Moby,

Each of the countries you mentioned have less than 500 new cases per day with the exception of UK.  Yes the virus is not gone (including Italy with a couple hundred per day) but these numbers are, or should be well within track trace and isolate requirements.

Above 1000 and it gets really dicey.  Forget 40,000 which is an impossible task.

Hi BC, I appreciate ( that other than the UK ) cases are lower, but look at Germany

1,700 cases  at one plant resulting in 360k being (re)locked down and and a lot of angry people who may not do the right thing and prevent spreading the virus ..

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/24/west-germany-district-re-enters-lockdown-after-new-covid-19-outbreak (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/24/west-germany-district-re-enters-lockdown-after-new-covid-19-outbreak)

It's not gone away and cleary has the ability to swamp us, if not careful

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on June 26, 2020, 06:19:53 AM
hey dumb phuques!
scientists discovered a treatment that can reduce COVID19 transmission by 70%, and its just a piece a cloth you wear in front of your dumb phuqueing face...
check it out AT YOUR EARLIEST CONVENIENCE
THANX!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on June 26, 2020, 07:04:45 AM
Hi BC, I appreciate ( that other than the UK ) cases are lower, but look at Germany

Moby,

You are looking at success and not a failure.  The cluster was detected, tracked, traced and follow up done, including a localized lockdown and a ton of new testing. Other measures are being taken as well.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on June 26, 2020, 07:34:04 AM
Yes the virus is not gone (including Italy with a couple hundred per day) but these numbers are, or should be well within track trace and isolate requirements.

Above 1000 and it gets really dicey.  Forget 40,000 which is an impossible task.

Again, the individual states have responsibility for protecting public health. Some US states have limited contact tracing capability, and that fact is showing in higher numbers. 

The best contact tracing not only identifies those in the first ring (having contact with an infected person)  but the second ring too (those who had contact with the first ring).  This second ring could be an order of magnitude larger in numbers, even more in many cases. 

Some of the current Federal legislation proposes to increase contact tracing significantly.  Instead I would prefer what was done in the old days of Civil Defense when we had plans for fallout shelters. etc.  It is too late for COVID-19, yet my opinion is to train in advance select government employees, especially those whose jobs would not be needed in the next pandemic (e. g., park employees, librarians,....).   
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on June 26, 2020, 07:59:15 AM
Gator,

a lot is being learned as we go along.  Just heard that at least here, use of the overhead bins in aeroplanes has been banned with all luggage checked free to destination.  Actually quite nice as folks will stay in their seat until it is their turn to deplane.  Prevents the big huddle where everyone stands up at once digging for their luggage and compressing folks in the aisle.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Gator on June 26, 2020, 09:21:45 AM
At its peak in early April, Florida was reporting about 1500 new cases per day.  That stat declined to 300-700 per day, enabling reopening in phases starting in early May. 

Rates increased to 1,000 per day, and grew slightly until Phase 2 of the reopening starting in  early June.    Then the rates accelerated to 2,000....3,000......4,000....setting a record yesterday of 5,000.  Today, the number of reported new cases is almost 9,000!!!! 

The age group reporting the most infections is the 25 - 34-yo range.  Today the Governor has banned the sale of alcohol at bars. 

[deleted graphic as it blew past the margins]



Maybe the accelerated COVID infection rates is made worse by enclosed spaces.  The summer heat has driven us Floridians to air conditioned spaces.  In contrast, many of our restaurants and bars had open-air seating in the winter. 

Let us hope the fatality rate of today's COVID remains low as experienced so far.  IMO this is due to evolutionary selection (not hospitalizing nor killing the host enable more spreading)

The next two weeks will be telling.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on June 26, 2020, 09:47:23 AM
Today the Governor has banned the sale of alcohol at bars. 



But the bars are allowed to stay open? What are they going to serve? Milk and cookies?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on June 26, 2020, 01:30:36 PM

People infected with the coronavirus are turning into zombies. Well, not that bad but their cells are.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/inside-body-coronavirus-even-more-150022628.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 27, 2020, 07:30:17 AM
Interesting tale of a guy from Scotland who reckons he'd be dead if in any other country .. he was in Vietnam

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53196009 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53196009)

Patient 91: How Vietnam saved a British pilot and kept a clean Covid-19 sheet
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 27, 2020, 04:09:42 PM
At its peak in early April, Florida was reporting about 1500 new cases per day.  That stat declined to 300-700 per day, enabling reopening in phases starting in early May. 

Rates increased to 1,000 per day, and grew slightly until Phase 2 of the reopening starting in  early June.    Then the rates accelerated to 2,000....3,000......4,000....setting a record yesterday of 5,000.  Today, the number of reported new cases is almost 9,000!!!! 

The age group reporting the most infections is the 25 - 34-yo range.  Today the Governor has banned the sale of alcohol at bars. 

[deleted graphic as it blew past the margins]



Maybe the accelerated COVID infection rates is made worse by enclosed spaces.  The summer heat has driven us Floridians to air conditioned spaces.  In contrast, many of our restaurants and bars had open-air seating in the winter. 

Let us hope the fatality rate of today's COVID remains low as experienced so far.  IMO this is due to evolutionary selection (not hospitalizing nor killing the host enable more spreading)

The next two weeks will be telling.

That's pretty shocking figures and it looks like it's going to get worse in the US.

In the UK we could soon be following the US. It's like they just don't care anymore about the virus and are rushing to reopen everything. I personally think the gov have been told it's just a case of relaunch the economy and whoever gets it and dies does so. I reckon tgeghave been told they don't really have a choice now.

I think the number will rise above R and one way or another the world is going to have to ride this one out, either through it becoming less deadly, vaccine or eventually doing everyone in.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BillyB on June 27, 2020, 04:15:46 PM
Interesting tale of a guy from Scotland who reckons he'd be dead if in any other country .. he was in Vietnam

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53196009 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53196009)

Patient 91: How Vietnam saved a British pilot and kept a clean Covid-19 sheet

There are Western trained doctors and dentists in Vietnam so I'm sure he got the best treatment since he's a high profile case in the country. Vietnam borders China and reports a few hundred infections and zero deaths. My mom keeps up on Vietnamese social media and she says it's a lot worse than they're reporting.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 27, 2020, 11:28:34 PM
When you didn't believe the figures, previously, I asked a Cypriot mate of man who's married to a Vietnamese lady .. She seemed to believe the numbers . may be she's gullible, but the pilot is certainly grateful !  ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 28, 2020, 06:20:12 AM
There are Western trained doctors and dentists in Vietnam so I'm sure he got the best treatment since he's a high profile case in the country. Vietnam borders China and reports a few hundred infections and zero deaths. My mom keeps up on Vietnamese social media and she says it's a lot worse than they're reporting.

Yeah, I'm not sure I buy all the difference between countries with some countries seemingly faring so much better than others. Some countries the virus seems to behave so much differently that they are virtually immune from it, lol.

There are probably reasons for variations but I'm not sure the variations account for such a big difference between those where the virus seems rampant and those where it hardly seems to touch anyone.

Ukraine is now stating they are getting over 1000 cases a day. I think it's conceivable that some countries will be affected later than others but there is the case over differences in recording it I guess. I reckon some countries economies are too poor to endure much if any of a lockdown so they decided they just have to get on with it best they can and make out things are all ok.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 28, 2020, 03:31:31 PM
Looking like things are looking bad in the US:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/28/us-health-secretary-window-closing-stop-coronavirus-cases-pass-25m

I'm not sure if they will hold it together out there if things continue at that rate.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 28, 2020, 10:23:06 PM
Looking like things are looking bad in the US:


I'm not sure if they will hold it together out there if things continue at that rate.

..and why the UK govt ignores the advice of many scientists, we're not already heading down the same perilous route?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53212435 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53212435)

Coronavirus: UK 'on knife edge' ahead of lockdown easing, scientist warns

Leicester?

Angelsey ?

500k twats heading to Bournemouth beach ?

As ever, you are out of touch with reality ..

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 29, 2020, 02:46:04 AM
..and why the UK govt ignores the advice of many scientists, we're not already heading down the same perilous route?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53212435 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53212435)

Coronavirus: UK 'on knife edge' ahead of lockdown easing, scientist warns

Leicester?

Angelsey ?

500k twats heading to Bournemouth beach ?

As ever, you are out of touch with reality ..

Indeed, I almost forgot, how long are you into your current stay Mobe?

Yes I can see the UK following the US. Don't worry though Mobe I'm keeping up my use of protective gloves and medical grade face mask :)

This may end up the start of a whole new world order.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 29, 2020, 02:54:54 AM
No need to wear a mask when the shops come to you, Trench ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 29, 2020, 03:47:42 AM
No need to wear a mask when the shops come to you, Trench ..

You mean you haven't gone outside in all this time!!! :o
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on June 29, 2020, 05:31:39 AM
When has there been a rule in England to wear a mask when taking exercise?

When the village was on lockdown ...we could walk down the middle of the road....no cars)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on July 03, 2020, 06:25:23 AM
If true, and other non-political studies aligns universally, the tragedy in this (http://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study)is, there could’ve been so many more people that could’ve been saved.

I’ve said before, if only one life is saved, it’s one life worth the effort. I wish those who politicized and campaigned to demonize this treatment, be infected, fall gravely ill, then rely to the same to save their own.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on July 03, 2020, 07:46:21 AM
The US is now closely tracking with the LANL pandemic model’s worst case scenario!

see below:
http://covid-19.bsvgateway.org/


If the current trend continues, we will more than double current confirmed cases by mid August (approx 5.7 million)
and then we’ll be just 6 weeks away from flu season when this thing “EXPLODES”
this country is gonna be COMPLETELY phuqued 6 months from now!!!

THE END!
DAS VADANYA MFers!!!
enjoy the JonesTown KoolAid Trump Voters, drink up!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on July 03, 2020, 08:55:15 AM
The US is now closely tracking with the LANL pandemic model’s worst case scenario!

see below:
http://covid-19.bsvgateway.org/


If the current trend continues, we will more than double current confirmed cases by mid August (approx 5.7 million)
and then we’ll be just 6 weeks away from flu season when this thing “EXPLODES”
this country is gonna be COMPLETELY phuqued 6 months from now!!!

THE END!
DAS VADANYA MFers!!!
enjoy the JonesTown KoolAid Trump Voters, drink up!!

Bartender! A double on the watermelon flavor, please!
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: krimster2 on July 03, 2020, 09:16:45 AM
here you go sir!
enjoy your drink!
на здоровье!!!  haha

but don't you think this whole "Floyd George" thing is just a total miscarriage of justice?
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: GQBlues on July 03, 2020, 09:37:48 AM
Derek Chauvin is as guilty as sin, and deserves every bit of punishment coming to him. He not only murdered George Floyd, he manage to also murdered the trust, unity and respect within the entire US society along with it.

Beyond this, social/civil politicization of everything else that shadowed this unfortunate tragedy is asinine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on July 03, 2020, 11:25:24 AM
Straw that broke the camel's back.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 07, 2020, 05:36:45 AM
Latest news report that most people that have the virus (and have had) don't even know they got it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53320155

I brought up before that odds are this virus will probably make its way through the population anyway and the lockdown prove to be a needless expensive waste of time. Our Mobers rubbished that idea at the time but it is increasingly looking to being the case.

If figures from northern Italy are anything to go by half of the population will have had it by now. So just the other half left to get it if that. The best we might have done is delay some people catching it, but at great cost to the economy. The global recession/depression that could now ensue could be far worse than the virus on people's lives.

Only good news may be that once this virus has worked its way through the population it may eventually fizzle out as weaker strains evolve and anti-bodies develop.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: BC on July 07, 2020, 05:55:40 AM
Latest news report that most people that have the virus (and have had) don't even know they got it:

Your linked article seems to say nothing of the sort.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on July 07, 2020, 08:49:40 AM
I can't see his posts, for a change ..

Might he have seen this ? :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53320155

Coronavirus: Majority testing positive have no symptoms

Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 09, 2020, 06:41:56 AM
Now, now Mobers, let's put this silliness behind us. No point in only being able to see a part of someone's discussion. I'll agree to not requote CB's posts if you agree to unblock me, what do you say old chum? ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 09, 2020, 06:46:02 AM
Recent report from Black Sea resorts in Russia and Ukraine of people defying the social distancing measures there. Packed out on the beaches:

http://www.euronews.com/2020/07/07/coronavirus-few-masks-and-little-distancing-as-thousands-pack-black-sea-beaches-in-russia

Likely to really push up cases out there I would have thought. Even still at present either FSU countries aren't reporting correctly or the present and to date relatively low numbers may point to some natural resistance in Slavic people perhaps.
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on July 09, 2020, 12:47:41 PM
SC can walk to the beach, from home, but is driving THEN walking to keep away from the holiday makers ...not taking walks along the front in the evenings ..

She's always pleased when she has the beach to herself ...her diving platform ..

(http://i.imgur.com/2UWodNi.gif)
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 09, 2020, 04:03:00 PM
Ahh, to be a Keyboard Romeo :cheesy:
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on July 09, 2020, 08:49:41 PM
How it affected the most well known FSU traveller

Mr Bald and Bankrupt got COVID-19 in his forties, watched people die alone and describes the effects on his body.. one somewhat alarming ..Anyone dismissive of this virus needs to watch this..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clscC120ZQM
 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clscC120ZQM)



Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: calmissile on July 09, 2020, 10:24:22 PM
How it affected the most well known FSU traveller

Mr Bald and Bankrupt got COVID-19 in his forties, watched people die alone and describes the effects on his body.. one somewhat alarming ..Anyone dismissive of this virus needs to watch this..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clscC120ZQM
 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clscC120ZQM)

Never thought we would have mutual interests but I was just about to post the same video.  I have watched many of his adventure videos and enjoyed them.   Agree, this is something people need to watch.

In addition, I have been binge watching about a dozen sailboat cruiser videos over the past couple of months.  I have not known anyone that has caught Covid-19 but this link is to a series that I have followed from beginning to end.  Unfortunately, this very popular sailing blogger got Covid-19 and his wife tells the story about how quickly it all came about.  It was a shock to watch his last video a week before and then find this end to their story.

BTW. after watching this video I went to a CVS pharmacy and bought one of those oxygen monitoring devices you clip on your finger and it was only $50.  Both videos mentioned that the oxygen % in the blood is a critical indicator of your condition.  The last video indicated that is when the hospital decides to put you on a ventilator.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAAwO8s1HJ0&t=1485s
Title: Re: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
Post by: msmob on July 09, 2020, 10:52:03 PM
Wow!

I follow 10 plus bluewater cruisers, but not this family and watched the vid... Powerful stuff.

I will watch Patrick's last vid, later ..


Another member was first to post Mr Bald's vid in another thread ( JohnDearGreen) - although I only realised, after.

Thank you, for sharing Rebecca's video.