Donetsk Airport: Has it finally fallen?

[Belvis]

Do you have any reports of how big the separatist units are? How many are involved in the fighting at the airport? What kind of weapons are in use or available?

It's impossible to say how many men were involved in fighting because area of airport is extensive and battle included nearby villages.
The new terminal was defended by less than 100 Ukrainian soldiers, about 40 were alive there during last decisive attack. The good video of final storm from rebel side:


One can estimate that storm was done by less than 100 men, however they were supported by fire from outside units. The video depicts the day when rebels took first and 4-th floor of the terminal, while Ukrainian soldiers control 2-nd and 3-d floors.
Rebels used 1.8 tons of TNT in total to blow up defenders (not shown in video).
BTW, one can see here that rebels use  hand grenades and smoke catridges to push out soldiers. Probably this caused rumors about gasing.

[mendeleyev]

Poke, the numbers are difficult to ascertain as each side is either unprofessional, and/or inflates numbers, and in the case of Russia itself deflates numbers.

The separatists themselves and Poroshenko are amazingly close as depending with whom you speak, even rebel leaders brag about thousands of Russian regulars.

As to incompetence, likely you recall how incompetent was the Red Army when the Germans invaded in 1941. Neglect and purges had led to a weak and unprofessional army. It took real battle experience and tremendous loss of life for the Red Army to mature and begin to turn the tide. I see the same here: the Ukrainian Army was often not even an afterthought for Yanukovich. Poroshenko inherited a corrupt and unprofessional force that was ill-equipped and untrained. Leadership was disloyal.

It took volunteers, often at sad loss of life, to help show Ukrainian regulars how to fight. Today the Ukrainian Army is learning and reforming via real baptism by fire. This is a force that is underfunded and under equipped, and who are fighting against the biggest neighbor in the region, a neighbor that has modernized its military over the past decade.

The carpet bombing idea will never take place. Despite denials now, prior to the Malaysia airline incident, the separatists openly demonstrated their capable air defense systems not only supplied by the Russians, but backed up by the Russians just across the border. Ukraine simply cannot operate in its own airspace. Russia has taken that away from them.

[mendeleyev]

Belvis, curious that you show only the Russian coverage.

Also, a little honesty would be in order here.

You said:

What Mendy called  "registered to the Russian Ministry of Internal Affair" in reality means spare plates for regions, but he told obsolete info, now it is Ekaterinburg.

I reported that a question had been raised, but instead of confirming it, what I actually said was:

We do not know, but it is an intriguing question.

However, my friend, you know the next question, right?

If you are so certain that the car plates are registered to Ekaterinburg (and I have no problem taking your word on that), then what the living hell was an official looking car, sporting an official blue light, doing in a neighboring country?

Why was a car with plates from Ekaterinburg (Russia) transporting a Ukrainian prisoner of war?

I'll be fascinated to see how you spin this one.

[AkMike]

No where else that I've read, f has 1.8 tons of explosive been reported either. A pretty precise number don't you think?

[Belvis]

Belvis, curious that you show only the Russian coverage.

Just for balance, because you show the Ukrainian coverage

Why was a car with plates from Ekaterinburg (Russia) transporting a Ukrainian prisoner of war?

I'll be fascinated to see how you spin this one.

I don't care, there are more interesting questions there to pay attention for car plates.
Plates from Ekaterinburg, but registered for another car than shown in video.  Intrigue, of course, but I'm interested more to know how they settle the status of rebel republics.

No where else that I've read, f has 1.8 tons of explosive been reported either. A pretty precise number don't you think?

Yes, because the number was told by one of former rebel commanders in comments to the video in another clip. May be you know Prapor, deputy of Strelok-Girkin? They put TNT in fire-hose and rolled over floor, then detonated.

[Boethius]

Ukrainian "liberators" face locals in Donbass. Pretty mild treatment taking into account they have killed about 5,000 locals. Mendy, have you seen interviews of captured rebels about how they were treated in Ukrainian captivity?

Many of those killed were killed by the terrorists, who have little regard for human life.  Captured rebels aren't paraded in the streets, and allowed to be touched by locals.  These terrorists and their supporters are subhuman. 

[Boethius]

I don't care, there are more interesting questions there to pay attention for car plates.
Plates from Ekaterinburg, but registered for another car than shown in video.  Intrigue, of course, but I'm interested more to know how they settle the status of rebel republics.

You don't care because it proves what we have been saying all along.  This war is operated and funded by Russia.

[Belvis]

You don't care because it proves what we have been saying all along.  This war is operated and funded by Russia.

Yeah, car plate confirms.  And Maidan was operated and funded by US, the view from opposite side. There are much more solid proofs of Russia involvement than car plates.
And Russia will be involved because you call Donbass people as subhumans. We know who were using this word 70 years ago.

[Boethius]

Yeah, car plate confirms.  And Maidan was operated and funded by US, the view from opposite side. There are much more solid proofs of Russia involvement than car plates.
And Russia will be involved because you call Donbass people as subhumans. We know who were using this word 70 years ago.

Maidan was not operated or funded by the US.


What would you call people who tell women they should not be going to restaurants, who carry out extra judicial killings as "justice", and who parade POW's in the street to be attacked by locals?  Are these the actions of normal people?

[Muzh]

Yeah, car plate confirms.  And Maidan was operated and funded by US, the view from opposite side. There are much more solid proofs of Russia involvement than car plates.
And Russia will be involved because you call Donbass people as subhumans. We know who were using this word 70 years ago.

The Soviets from Moscow? Yeah, that's it.

[Muzh]

Maidan was not operated or funded by the US.


What would you call people who tell women they should not be going to restaurants, who carry out extra judicial killings as "justice", and who parade POW's in the street to be attacked by locals?

Russians

[Larry1]

Yeah, car plate confirms.  And Maidan was operated and funded by US, the view from opposite side. There are much more solid proofs of Russia involvement than car plates.

For the first time I agree with Belvis.

And Russia will be involved because you call Donbass people as subhumans. We know who were using this word 70 years ago.

When did Boethius or any other Westerner here call Donbas people subhuman? 

[Boethius]

I did call the terrorists subhuman.  I did not state all the people of Donbas are subhuman.

[Изумруд]

I did call the terrorists subhuman.  I did not state all the people of Donbas are subhuman.

That type of twisting of facts and words is very typical of what Russian propaganda has been doing.

[Brasscasing]

Syria had a gas attack.  They posted pictures.  If Katernya Kruk is questioning the credibility of her MOD we should too.

True but as you know the circumstances and dynamics change. Not all wars/battles are fought the same.

The airport is an enclosed space good for deploying noxious substance and well suited for containment reducing blowback. Non combatants like media wouldn't be just roaming around inside the building anyways.

We had some coverage of the airport fighting but details were sparse most likely because both sides were vetting media coverage at the scene for tactical reasons and potential embarrassing slips as we saw with buddy comrade the Russian Navel Marine.

Ms. Kruk is a young activist and that's a good thing. She's doing what a young activist should do, question the system.

Brass

[mendeleyev]

Plates from Ekaterinburg, but registered for another car than shown in video.  Intrigue, of course, but I'm interested more to know how they settle the status of rebel republics.

You are not being honest.

I'll bet that had it been a official car carrying a Donbas captive, and the car had sported USA plates, that you would show a little more interest, right?

Belvis, I know and understand that you love your country. I do too, although you may not like to admit it. That however, does not mean that I like or agree with what it is doing right now. Heck, I disagree with a lot of USA policy. The difference is, the USA is comfortable enough in its freedom that I have no reason to fear expressing my displeasure.

Russia on the other hand, is based on fear. Individualism today, just as in Stalin's time, is not a trait that is welcome in Russia. If that is to change, then intelligent persons like yourself will need to fight for that right. Because if you do not, the Gulags are always a possibility...

[lordtiberius]

Belvis, who killed all those people in those apartments in and around Moscow in the late 90s?

[Belvis]

Belvis, I know and understand that you love your country. I do too, although you may not like to admit it.

I know your attitude to Russia and appreciate it. We have different set of values (not so different though) because you're close to liberal and artistic circles (Московская богема), and I'm more ordinary man. So we see things under different angles and as a result illuminate issues in full capacity. 

   Besides I like your wife's paintings

[lordtiberius]

Belvis, who killed all those people during the late 90's apartment bombings?

[JayH]

True but as you know the circumstances and dynamics change. Not all wars/battles are fought the same.

The airport is an enclosed space good for deploying noxious substance and well suited for containment reducing blowback. Non combatants like media wouldn't be just roaming around inside the building anyways.

We had some coverage of the airport fighting but details were sparse most likely because both sides were vetting media coverage at the scene for tactical reasons and potential embarrassing slips as we saw with buddy comrade the Russian Navel Marine.

Brass

Were Chemical Weapons Used in Donetsk Airport’s Last Stand?

Chemical Agents

Perhaps the most unusual part of the SMM’s Jan. 20 report consists of an interview conducted by SMM members with a Ukrainian soldier hospitalized in government-controlled Konstantinovka, an industrial city 56km north of Donetsk. The soldier stated he was being treated for injuries sustained through combat at Donetsk airport on Jan. 19, and that “80 Ukrainian soldiers in total” had suffered similar injuries, including “uncontrollable muscle spasms, vomiting, difficulty breathing,” and in some cases, loss of consciousness.

These symptoms are consistent with exposure to certain nerve agents and choking agents. Use of nerve agents by either party is unlikely, especially considering the relatively high mortality rate of these chemical weapons along with an absence of fatalities reported among those exposed to the attack. Use of choking agents is more likely – although potentially fatal, the use of these banned weapons often results in a lower mortality rate than their neurological counterparts.
http://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2015/01/23/were-chemical-weapons-used-in-donetsk-airports-last-stand/

[lordtiberius]

The Novorossiya posters can lie, obfuscate, equivocate and insult but they cannot defend this regime with facts.  There is a lot of diversity of opinion among the Pro-Ukrainians.  Yet they cannot convince not one of us to agree.  If we are all brainwashed, why do we spend half our time fighting each other.  Its because the Novorossiya side is morally weak.