Are FSUW mostly complainers on their own forums?

[ML]

My UW has met a RW in her English classes.

Yesterday the RW told that she had looked on internet to find other RW in USA to talk with.

She was quite dismayed that in the Web discussion sites that most of the RW seemed to complain about everything and were only interested in what trinkets  their WM could give them on a regular basis.

My UW gal said to me:  Why are WM so stupid as to keep marrying this type of woman when there are many good-hearted, wonderful women in Ukraine?

I didn't have a good answer or really any answer for her.

Are the FSUW discussion websites really mostly filled with complainers and status seekers?

[ECOCKS]

I think this is an excellent question and am looking forward to whether we get any women's feedback.

Failing that, maybe some of our male Russian speakers (Possum, Mendy, Eduard, etc.) can nose around a bit and bring us back some info?

My wife isn't remotely interested in the Russian community locally or virtually BUT has been uniformly disappointed by almost all of the ones she met to date. The exceptions have been 3 FSUW married to AM. That is not to say she has been impressed with every WM/FSUW couple we have met but I was intrigued that the women she ran into at the stores and stuff were uniformly unimpressive. All of those seemed to be FSUW who were married to FSUM.

She was shocked at the low level of language acquisition after many years and also commented that they seemed muted or subdued rather than happy.

I should also mention that she noticed none are particularly successful which may factor into one of my pet peeves. Whether I am teaching management technique or passing along advice on WM/FSUW relationships (any relationship really) EXPECTATION MANAGEMENT is CRITICAL. CRITICAL!

That is one reason I discourage the gift-giving, super vacations, expensive restaurants and such. If you cannot sustain vacations to the Maldives, skiing in Switzerland and such then don't present yourself this way.

Frankly, I am not sure what to make of that other than my observations on language acquisition.

[Hammer2722]

I think this is an excellent question and am looking forward to whether we get any women's feedback.

Failing that, maybe some of our male Russian speakers (Possum, Mendy, Eduard, etc.) can nose around a bit and bring us back some info?

My wife isn't remotely interested in the Russian community locally or virtually BUT has been uniformly disappointed by almost all of the ones she met to date. The exceptions have been 3 FSUW married to AM. That is not to say she has been impressed with every WM/FSUW couple we have met but I was intrigued that the women she ran into at the stores and stuff were uniformly unimpressive. All of those seemed to be FSUW who were married to FSUM.

She was shocked at the low level of language acquisition after many years and also commented that they seemed muted or subdued rather than happy.

Frankly, I a not sure what to make of that other than my observations on language acquisition.

Excellent points! I noticed when I was looking on Mamba for FSU women living in my local area, that many of these divorced women who have been living in the US for at least 10 or more years listed only Russian/Ukrainian as their only language. I've chatted with a few who were brought over by FSU men and still could not speak English after more than 10 years in the US.

[tfcrew]

My wife isn't remotely interested in the Russian community locally or virtually 

+1

[GQBlues]

...She was quite dismayed that in the Web discussion sites that most of the RW seemed to complain about everything and were only interested in what trinkets  their WM could give them on a regular basis....

LOL. Once she spent some time surfing 'our' web discussion it'll definitely give her a much more objective view of the whole affair.

[ECOCKS]

LOL. Once she spent some time surfing 'our' web discussion it'll definitely giver a much more objective view of the whole affair.

Because Lord knows we aren't negative or complaining, huh?

The very few times my wife has looked at stuff I wrote here she immediately was concerned that I was

A. wasting my time and

B. telling people too much about our lives.

While not quite a superstition, I hear many times that if you talk too much about good or bad things it makes many FSUW/M nervous. They seem to think someone will take it if good or it will come true if you are too concerned something bad will happen. Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy attitude.

I saw it in business "planning" as well. One guy wanted to open a dozen branch offices with no goals, triggers or target achievements. When I asked what would happen if they failed he said simply that it COULDN'T happen because he was SURE they would be SUCCESSFUL. I should note that his list of possible locations  included a couple of dozen cities and when I asked he said he would locate the 12 offices where he could hire people most readily. This was sort of like those tapes you hear about which tell you to project a positive image and it will come true or the THINK method from The Music Man.

[I/O]

Why are WM so stupid as to keep marrying this type of woman

'cause, that's what the knowall's and agencies are selling them.
 
In our experience, no it's not the norm among decent women.

[Boethius]

I doubt most of these women are "bad".  There may be some among them who are materially motivated.  However, I would hazard a guess that most married with good intentions.  I suspect this is what happens when you marry a stranger you don't love, with the hope that someday, you will learn to love him and that does not occur.
 
A woman leaves the FSU, thinking she will have a normal/good family life with a man.  She is full of hope, dreams and expectations.  She believes she will learn to love him.  But life does not turn out according to her dreams.  She is disappointed.  She is not crazy wild about her man, so the little things that a woman in love finds endearing, or overlooks, and those little disappointments, become magnified.  She doesn't have the support systems a WW woman has to fall back on (primarily, family), so she is left with filling her empty life with trinkets and complaining until she has the courage to leave a marriage that likely is not good for either party, or resigns herself to this unfulfilling life.
 
I view this as a tragedy.
 
As for language, of course someone who is forced to speak the language daily to her AM is going to pick it up a lot more quickly than someone who lives in a closed community.   How many of you spent considerable time in the FSU without learning the language?

[GQBlues]

Because Lord knows we aren't negative or complaining, huh?

The very few times my wife has looked at stuff I wrote here she immediately was concerned that I was

A. wasting my time and

B. telling people too much about our lives.

While not quite a superstition, I hear many times that if you talk too much about good or bad things it makes many FSUW/M nervous. They seem to think someone will take it if good or it will come true if you are too concerned something bad will happen. Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy attitude.

I saw it in business "planning" as well. One guy wanted to open a dozen branch offices with no goals, triggers or target achievements. When I asked what would happen if they failed he said simply that it COULDN'T happen because he was SURE they would be SUCCESSFUL. I should note that his list of possible locations  included a couple of dozen cities and when I asked he said he would locate the 12 offices where he could hire people most readily. This was sort of like those tapes you hear about which tell you to project a positive image and it will come true or the THINK method from The Music Man.

Actually Ed, you mentioned something in that post that brought to mind a passing fascination some of the FSU circle we know had expressed before. Based on a book titled "Secret". Reminds me of that notable quote, "I think, therefore I am".
 
But like your wife, wifey weined herself out of the whole virtual FSU community altogether after the first year or so...she had since slowly broaden her virtual circle to FB which is inclusive of non-FSU crowd.

[ECOCKS]

I doubt most of these women are "bad".  There may be some among them who are materially motivated.  However, I would hazard a guess that most married with good intentions.  I suspect this is what happens when you marry a stranger you don't love, with the hope that someday, you will learn to love him and that does not occur.
 
A woman leaves the FSU, thinking she will have a normal/good family life with a man.  She is full of hope, dreams and expectations.  But life does not turn out according to her dreams.  She is disappointed.  She is not crazy wild about her man, so the little things that a woman in love finds endearing, or overlooks, become magnified.  She doesn't have the support systems a WW woman has to fall back on (primarily, family), so she is left with filling her empty life with trinkets and complaining until she has the courage to leave a marriage that likely is not good for either party, or resigns herself to this unfulfilling life.
 
As for language, of course someone who is forced to speak the language daily to her AM is going to pick it up a lot more quickly than someone who lives in a closed community.   How many of you spent considerable time in the FSU without learning the language?

B:

Your points are probably correct and I agree with all you stated. ML's question though was what do they say on the forums among themselves? I know you're busy but maybe you could hop around a bit in the next week or so, check a few forums and let us know their tone based upon thread titles and spot readings?

Re: Language

"How many of you spent considerable time in the FSU without learning the language?"

This is completely irrelevant since very few of us plan on living there permanently for the rest of our lives, changing citizenship or "becoming" a Ukrainian or Russian.

If my wife considers only that she will spend "considerable time" here rather than actually becoming a permanent resident and ultimately changing her citizenship I would fully understand her not learning the language. I would also be horrified to discover that was her intention.

I've visited over a dozen countries where they don't speak English as the primary language and there was no compelling reason to learn theirs. Yes, I own property in Ukraine. Yes, I miss being able to talk with my MIL and many other family members. I'd even like to read a few Russian language forums, I don't operate a motor vehicle there since I don't need to do so. I learned my number, how to read and phonetically pronounce Russian words and that proved enough.

[Boethius]

When I have looked at FSUW forums, what I found often were "horror stories" about the strange men they'd hooked up with.  Otherwise, I didn't find too much that was different from WW forums I read years ago.
 
People develop language skills differently, and not altogether easily.  I have sympathy for that as well.

[acctBill]

ML one of the advantages of living in London was that my Russian wife had a great many Russian woman to take to and vent with, she didn't need to find a virtual community. 

If you want to read about some horror stories as told from the perspective of a FSUW go to www.antidate.org.  Unfortunately most of it is in Russian and for some of the posts online translators don't work particularly well because of slang and such.  However you will get a general idea of how some FSUW feel about the experience of communicating with a foreigner.     

[Muzh]

ML one of the advantages of living in London was that my Russian wife had a great many Russian woman to take to and vent with, she didn't need to find a virtual community. 

If you want to read about some horror stories as told from the perspective of a FSUW go to www.antidate.org.  Unfortunately most of it is in Russian and for some of the posts online translators don't work particularly well because of slang and such.  However you will get a general idea of how some FSUW feel about the experience of communicating with a foreigner.   

Yessiree Bob. And they have this little tiny area for men to hang out and LISTEN and just to listen because the moment you open your mouth, even when you are agreeing with them, they'll lock you out.
 
Pffft

[Chicagoguy]

I don't think I will even tell my wife about www.antidate.com.
Things are really good with us and I do not want to stir the pot.   
P.S.    She isn't really fond of the Russians she has met here.

[pitbull]

My UW has met a RW in her English classes.

Yesterday the RW told that she had looked on internet to find other RW in USA to talk with.

She was quite dismayed that in the Web discussion sites that most of the RW seemed to complain about everything and were only interested in what trinkets  their WM could give them on a regular basis.

My UW gal said to me:  Why are WM so stupid as to keep marrying this type of woman when there are many good-hearted, wonderful women in Ukraine?

I didn't have a good answer or really any answer for her.

Are the FSUW discussion websites really mostly filled with complainers and status seekers?

Short answer: no.
 
Long answer:
I am regularly reading this forum and two of the most popular forums for FSUW living abroad. Just like RWD posters, FSUW posting on the forums are very diverse, from different socio-economic classes, educational levels, occupations, language abilities. You can meet housewives, students, working moms and very successful professionals. Topics are very diverse, complaning is by far not the major part. Lots of good information on immigtation-related paperwork, education, child-related issues etc. I highly recommend those for new FSUW wives. I've met 2-3 good RW friends through those forums (and one through RWD actually). Of my RW girlfriends here in Boston, all of them are successful, have great personalities and perfect English.
 
Fell free to ask questions, forums are my "guilty pleasure"
 

[mies]

.

[ECOCKS]

ML one of the advantages of living in London was that my Russian wife had a great many Russian woman to take to and vent with, she didn't need to find a virtual community. 

If you want to read about some horror stories as told from the perspective of a FSUW go to www.antidate.org.  Unfortunately most of it is in Russian and for some of the posts online translators don't work particularly well because of slang and such.  However you will get a general idea of how some FSUW feel about the experience of communicating with a foreigner.   

Interestingly, the first thread I read was an RW (apparently) questioning why so few women post much about their successes....

[BillyB]

My UW gal said to me:  Why are WM so stupid as to keep marrying this type of woman when there are many good-hearted, wonderful women in Ukraine?

Sincere women tend to be at home while insincere women get out in the open more often thus have more time to be available to men.
 
Sincere women are shy while insincere women are not. Through emails they open up with emotions faster although the emotions may not be real. Guys feel good when women say "Dear", "kisses", "love".
 
Sincere women are less likely to invite men to see her. Insincere women are more aggressive and can invite a man to see her within a few emails. Man jumps on plane and cost of trip pressures him to get results such as marriage.
 
Insincere women are also more aggressive while in their presence. Go to a social and the aggressive women are more likely to get a dance and leave with a man than the quiet girl who has less experience on how to attract a man.
 
Guys routinely mistake insincere girls as sincere girls who sincerely like them. Men make the mistake of jumping on the plane too early without understanding who they're visiting. Your gal wonders why there are so many stupid guys but tell her this "Maybe it's best the sincere girls don't meet and marry those guys."

[Ade]

Sincere women tend to be at home while insincere women get out in the open more often thus have more time to be available to men.
 
Sincere women are shy while insincere women are not. Through emails they open up with emotions faster although the emotions may not be real. Guys feel good when women say "Dear", "kisses", "love".
 
Sincere women are less likely to invite men to see her. Insincere women are more aggressive and can invite a man to see her within a few emails. Man jumps on plane and cost of trip pressures him to get results such as marriage.
 
Insincere women are also more aggressive while in their presence. Go to a social and the aggressive women are more likely to get a dance and leave with a man than the quiet girl who has less experience on how to attract a man.
 
Guys routinely mistake insincere girls as sincere girls who sincerely like them. Men make the mistake of jumping on the plane too early without understanding who they're visiting. Your gal wonders why there are so many stupid guys but tell her this "Maybe it's best the sincere girls don't meet and marry those guys."

Are you trolling or do you actually believe this tripe you post?

[mies]

Sincere women tend to be at home while insincere women get out in the open more often thus have more time to be available to men.
 
Sincere women are shy while insincere women are not. Through emails they open up with emotions faster although the emotions may not be real. Guys feel good when women say "Dear", "kisses", "love".
 
Sincere women are less likely to invite men to see her. Insincere women are more aggressive and can invite a man to see her within a few emails. Man jumps on plane and cost of trip pressures him to get results such as marriage.
 
Insincere women are also more aggressive while in their presence. Go to a social and the aggressive women are more likely to get a dance and leave with a man than the quiet girl who has less experience on how to attract a man.
 
Guys routinely mistake insincere girls as sincere girls who sincerely like them. Men make the mistake of jumping on the plane too early without understanding who they're visiting. Your gal wonders why there are so many stupid guys but tell her this "Maybe it's best the sincere girls don't meet and marry those guys."

sin·cere/sinˈsi(ə)r/

Adjective: Free from pretense or deceit; proceeding from genuine feelings. (of a person) Saying what they genuinely feel or believe; not dishonest or hypocritical. [/t][/t]Billy, do you also believe that no woman is sincerely interested in a man? Or that any particular woman cannot get bored with one man and get sincerely interested in another man? I start to wonder why did you look for wife in Russia/Ukraine, and not in some Middle-Eastern country.

[BillyB]

[/q][/t][/t]Billy, do you also believe that no woman is sincerely interested in a man? Or that any particular woman cannot get bored with one man and get sincerely interested in another man?

 
I'm not sure what your questions have to do with me answering Manlooking's gal's question of why WM don't marry the good gals. When I say "sincere girls", I mean the good girls. Before getting into the world of RW, I rarely used the word "sincere".
 
I've communicated with thousands of women on internet and phone. Good women are less aggressive and tend to be more responsible such as doing something in their life. They may work or study and don't have much time to chat with men on the internet and as a result, they have less time and experience attracting men. Bad girls, on average, do a better job at attracting men with their personalities, openess, and provocative dress. 20% of the women get 80% of the attention from men on dating/marriage sites. Many factors involved but on average, bad girls do a better job than good girls at securing a man in their life for marriage or money so good girls are more likely to sit at home dreaming of the day a man will come into her life.
 
 

I start to wonder why did you look for wife in Russia/Ukraine, and not in some Middle-Eastern country. [/q]

 
I'm successful with RW and RW are more beautiful. No sense changing programs.

[mies]

true, you meant sincere as good and genuine. Although, sincere and genuine aren't synonyms to "good." A person can be genuinely bad, or a person can be sincere about their bad deeds and motives.

My point was that when a woman start to dislike a man - this does not mean she is a bad woman. I think people aren't really clear of what they mean by "good." Usually by good they mean "let her be the way I want her to be," even if they want from the woman mutually exclusive things.

This isn't an argument, just a rhetorical question.

[BillyB]

My point was that when a woman start to dislike a man - this does not mean she is a bad woman.

I agree with this. I've dated a lot of women and thus I've been in lots of breakups with women. I could know a woman for 1 or 10 dates and walk away without being angry at her and call her a bad woman. In my other thread I mention I broke up with women because of different beliefs on issues but I remain friends and see them as friends. They could be a good wife for somebody but not for me.
 

I think people aren't really clear of what they mean by "good."

To be very clear, I think "good" woman when it comes to relationships is "wife material". Everybody has different opinions on what is wife or husband material is so when ML's gal said their are a lot of good women sitting at home, I interpret that as in a lot of wife material girls sitting at home while the not so wifey material girls are doing a better job catching the guys. ML's gal wondered why. I gave him an answer to why.
 
 

[mies]

I agree with this. I've dated a lot of women and thus I've been in lots of breakups with women. I could know a woman for 1 or 10 dates and walk away without being angry at her and call her a bad woman. In my other thread I mention I broke up with women because of different beliefs on issues but I remain friends and see them as friends. They could be a good wife for somebody but not for me.
 
To be very clear, I think "good" woman when it comes to relationships is "wife material". Everybody has different opinions on what is wife or husband material is so when ML's gal said their are a lot of good women sitting at home, I interpret that as in a lot of wife material girls sitting at home while the not so wifey material girls are doing a better job catching the guys. ML's gal wondered why. I gave him an answer to why.

I see now, thank you.

Posted here earlier, then removed, now will post again. Psychologists say that people cope with anxiety, fears about uncertainty of the future, risks, and meaninglessness of their lives when they can find something or somebody they can publicly disapprove, and assign who is "the guilty ones", who is "the bad guys." Knowing that someone is bad makes people feel good about themselves by comparison, criticizing actively the people whom they have assigned as bad makes people feel like they are doing something useful, changing the world for the better, taking control of their lives (while they are hiding/avoiding from facing and solving the real problems).

In ML's friend case it can be either this, or she may be hinting to ML that she is the good one. Still unmarried. That she would be a good wife, happy and grateful. While some other bad women got married and now complaining about it, although they do not deserve it, she deserves it, because she will be a much better wife and thus must be chosen.

In case of me posting here, or women on their own forums complaining about men, or men on their own forums complaining about women, or doing the russianscammerhunts, the motivations is pretty much the same 

[Gator]

My UW gal said to me:  Why are WM so stupid as to keep marrying this type of woman when there are many good-hearted, wonderful women in Ukraine?

I didn't have a good answer or really any answer for her.

The answer is simple - they deserve each other.

[Misha]

The American linguist Deborah Tannen argues in her research that men and women have different conversation styles. Generally, and there are always exceptions, talking about troubles is an important component to the conversations of women: women share their troubles with the expectation that the person listening to them will express sympathy and understanding, quite often sharing their own similar troubles, though not trying to demonstrate that their troubles are worse than the original woman's troubles as that would be seen as not showing empathy. Men on the other hand, will of course try to solve the problem    Given these differences, which is also evident IMVHO in Russian women, it is natural that forum dominated by men would be quite different in tone and discussion styles than those forums dominated by women 


Source: http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:AQNrteDlzisJ:www9.georgetown.edu/faculty/tannend/pdfs/gender_difference_in_topical_coherence.pdf+deborah+tannen+gender+trouble+talk&hl=en&gl=ca&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjitPuR4-31rSDCgnW06xF6kff651qz3LqpyA9FvolxSRfGiBrVL4sNA74D2rV5Dsy4LoeKX31yc3IA3h7WlwvggO8DCY_rqAWcraM0L5Cd6P5Y1cGLBr5gSk85UdKJnQZeWfXZ&sig=AHIEtbTlj99O1Mt64MsZmvC1aB4IWWiM-g