Tver trip/agency report

[acrzybear]

Greetings all

I originally was not going to post a trip report, but then decided "what the hell, I've got a couple of hours before the game starts"

  The trip started out with me arriving at the airport and looking forward to visiting Russia only to discover that Delta had overbooked the flight and I was the odd man out.  The desk clerk told me I would have to call customer service for further assistance. Customer service told me that all flights were booked and I would not be able to leave for a week, unless I wanted to pay an extra $2000.00 for business class . I explained that I wasn't going to pay an extra cent and they are the ones that screwed up and should be kissing my a$$ and perhaps by upgrading me I might be more forgiving. 

 I finally got ahold of a Customer Service Representative who booked me on a flight to Russia the following day, the only catch is I had fly out of Austin airport that day and do an overnight layover in Atlanta.  Austin airport is about 1 1/2 hours away on a good day, it was now 12:30PM and the flight left at 2:59PM - so with security and parking I had 1 1/2 hours to get there. At this point things started to change;
1) The state just opened up a new toll road (cost $3.00 total to get to the airport)
2) Every State Trooper along the way already had someone pulled.

I made it to the airport at 1:30PM only to discover the flight had been delayed until 3:30PM. The flights were uneventful, however I did luck out and was the only person sitting at the emergency exit on my side of the plane.  I couldn't sleep on the plane so I was abit tired when I finally landed at SVO.  I was one of the first in line at customs and my two bags were some of the first to come out on the conveyor. I met Richard "aka the crazy Canadian" and proceeded to Tver.

  The first things I noticed about Russia is the infrastructure is neglected (the pot holes make ours look like 
minor speed dips) and there appear to be no traffic laws, once in Tver I settled into the flat.  I was disappointed in that I was very specific with Richard in that the main thing I wanted was a western style shower, but the flat had a garden tub instead.  Richard told me that the owner of the original flat had changed her mind at the last minute and this was the best he could do at the time, Richard easily rectified the problem by bringing a shower rod and curtain. 

  After I freshened up,  Richard and I walked about 1/2 mile to the agency and met with the lady I had been writing to (I'll call her X) and she and I went out to grab something to eat.  I don't know the name of the restaurant, but it is just down the street from Tver Angels office, the food was excellent and the prices very reasonable.  I spent the next several days meeting X and her family and enjoying myself.  I visited Moscow & St. Petersburg and I liked them both, but I liked St. Petersburg more.         

  It was during the end of the first week that I discovered that I had been significantly overcharged on my bank account and was in a bit of a financial pickle.  Well RWD is full of surprises, I was keeping the legendary JB appraised of my trip and when he found out my situation, he sent me $$ without hesitation and saved my a$$. 

  I spent time with X in Moscow and St. Petersburg and I kept remembering what the OMB's keep telling folks "If a Russian woman likes you, she will leave no doubt in your mind".  Everything was going well, I went to a family gathering at the lake (Russian BBQ's are great), they gave me lots of food and tagged teamed me with the Vodka.  During the festivities family members got ahold of my camera and took a lot of photographs, A good time was had by all and I was a hit with all of the children (My second job is as a mobile jungle gym). X had cooked me dinner in my flat twice earlier in the week, but there was minimal physical contact, even when her 6 year old son would put our hands together, she would find a reason to pull them apart.  My last night in Tver there X invited me to her flat and she showed me family photographs while her mother cooked dinner, but still minimal contact. 

  I will admit that it was abit confusing at first, but I decided that she was being a courteous hostess to the foreigner and had no real feelings towards me.  It is a bit of a shame since I really liked her family and her son, but c'est la vie, these things happen when you do the WOVO method.

  Even though I things didn't work out with X, I still accomplished what I wanted- I visited Russia and met some great people, saw beautiful places and enjoyed myself.  I will be visiting Russia again (especially St. Petersburg!!)

I cannot say enough positive things about Tver Angels, Richard and his partner Marina were extremely accommodating and gave me options and at the same time allowed me room when I needed it.  The folks there are extremely open honest and will bend over backwards to help you in anyway they can, If anyone visits the Tver region I would highly recommend this agency.

 JB-Some view him as a cantankerous opinionated old fart (which is true), but you will not find a more honest guy that will help a person when they really need it.  JB is truely part of a dying breed of individual from an era that is rapidly vanishing in todays "What's in it for me" society. I may not always agree with him, but he has my utmost respect.   

I also found my twin in St. Petersburg;

[BillyB]

Thanks for the trip report Bear although it didn't turn out as you would like. I don't know if I'd send you money. Crooks say cops can't be trusted. I too like St. Peter better than Moscow. When you go back, are you going to do a WOVO again? If so, will you have backup? Don't cops always have backup?

[acrzybear]

Good questions Billy

I'm not really a WMVM kind of guy and I tend to visit places that are of interest to me and if there is a pretty lady there that is of interest I'll meet her.  Yes we do usually have "backup" except when I'm on vacation.  I loved St. Petersburg, but as far as finding a significant other-I'm not set on any particular country or time frame.  If I find the right lady and get married-great, but if I'm destined to be single-I'm good with that also.

[catzenmouse]

Hey Bear,

 Sorry things didn't work out as you had hoped but I think that just being there and enjoying your time there is its own success.

JB-Some view him as a cantankerous opinionated old fart (which is true), but you will not find a more honest guy that will help a person when they really need it.  JB is truely part of a dying breed of individual from an era that is rapidly vanishing in todays "What's in it for me" society. I may not always agree with him, but he has my utmost respect.

LOL! I totally agree with you here. We could use a few (or few thousand) more with his values.

Ken

[BillyB]

One more question for you Bear. Do you think if you showed up at the airport earlier that another passenger would have been the odd man out instead of you? With so many connecting flights to Uzbekistan when I go there next time, I'd hate to miss the first plane and have to reschedule all connecting flights at the mercy of the airlines. I usually arrive early for my flights anyway.

[groovlstk]

Bear, sorry to hear things didn't work out as well as they may have, but you did well in ending things when you realized you had a cold fish.

[acrzybear]

One more question for you Bear. Do you think if you showed up at the airport earlier that another passenger would have been the odd man out instead of you?

Billy

 The only reason I was perturbed is I made my flight reservations over 4 months in advance and I "checked in" the day prior to my departure and I showed up 1 1/2 hours prior to the departure time and I was bumped.  I can deal with that (things happen), but that is no excuse for the airline to overbook and then be rude about inconveniencing the customer by telling him he has to reschedule everything for a week later.

  I'm lucky I was only inconvenienced for a day and everything worked out in the end.  You as a business owner know that if you mess something up, you do what you can to make it right, the quickest way to lose a good customer is to treat them like crap and not fulfill your obligation. 

[timothe]

Good questions Billy

I'm not really a WMVM kind of guy and I tend to visit places that are of interest to me and if there is a pretty lady there that is of interest I'll meet her.  Yes we do usually have "backup" except when I'm on vacation.  I loved St. Petersburg, but as far as finding a significant other-I'm not set on any particular country or time frame.  If I find the right lady and get married-great, but if I'm destined to be single-I'm good with that also.

I think you have the right attitude for this adventure, bear.  There's nothing wrong with remaining single.  And there's nothing wrong with WOVO on every trip as long as you understand that you may need to make more trips than others.

On your next trip, I might suggest that you use an agency like Richard's for backup so that you are more confident about getting out of a situation that's not working without losing your entire trip.  On my first trip, it took me eight days to extract myself from the woman and if I stayed with her for the entire trip, I might not have gone back a second time.  As it turns out, I met some really nice ladies the last two days which gave me the confidence to try again.

[Serebro]

I spent time with X in Moscow and St. Petersburg and I kept remembering what the OMB's keep telling folks "If a Russian woman likes you, she will leave no doubt in your mind".  Everything was going well, I went to a family gathering at the lake (Russian BBQ's are great), they gave me lots of food and tagged teamed me with the Vodka.  During the festivities family members got ahold of my camera and took a lot of photographs, A good time was had by all and I was a hit with all of the children (My second job is as a mobile jungle gym). X had cooked me dinner in my flat twice earlier in the week, but there was minimal physical contact, even when her 6 year old son would put our hands together, she would find a reason to pull them apart.  My last night in Tver there X invited me to her flat and she showed me family photographs while her mother cooked dinner, but still minimal contact. 

  I will admit that it was abit confusing at first, but I decided that she was being a courteous hostess to the foreigner and had no real feelings towards me.  It is a bit of a shame since I really liked her family and her son, but c'est la vie, these things happen when you do the WOVO method.

  Even though I things didn't work out with X,

I didn't understand...did you arrive at those conclusions because of your inner feelings and her not kissing you in public or because you had a conversation with her and she told you that she didn't like you?!

[Kuna]

I didn't understand...did you arrive at those conclusions because of your inner feelings and her not kissing you in public or because you had a conversation with her and she told you that she didn't like you?!

acrzybear,

This is a fair enough question... and one I thought of too.

When you hear men say "if a RW likes you you'll know it" it doesn't mean she is the one with the power to jump your bones or wrestle you to the ground.   Like all women there are different types... and some are very shy at the thought of meeting a stranger (or virtual stranger).

Did you feel comfortable with the lady?  Was she attentive to your needs?  Did she ask many questions?  You did meet her family right?

In my experience meeting the family is the biggie.... and My Girl explained to me (when I asked about meeting the family) that meeting them was very serious and a big step.  The fact that you met them is a very good sign.

Have you talked to her about her feelings?  What she wants?  With the lack of hand holding, even after her 6yo put them together, maybe she was just very embarrassed.

Something I'll say about My Girl is that she LIKES me to make decisions and be a leader...

I hope the communication is still open with your lady and perhaps you'll get a better indication of her feelings over time.  If not, I am sure you'll find someone who you click with because I am certain you're a good man and if there is one thing a good FSUW wants... it's a GOOD man!

Best of luck!

Kuna

[Serebro]

.

Something I'll say about My Girl is that she LIKES me to make decisions and be a leader...

I agree. Did you try to hug her or to kiss her when you were together?! Or did you expect her to jump on you in the presence of her son?!
If the girl had been hanging on you covering you with kisses and telling you that she can't live without you 3 days after you met her in person that would have been a huge RED FLAG for me.
If she is a mature woman and a mother it may put certain obligations on her behavior.

When being in the USA I went to the local night club with my friend I came out completely dissapointed as we'd felt that people had been looking at us but noone except for local girls had tried to speak with us and noone tried to touch us or to dance with us.

[Kuna]

I agree. Did you try to hug her or to kiss her when you were together?! Or did you expect her to jump on you in the presence of her son?!
If the girl had been hanging on you covering you with kisses and telling you that she can't live without you 3 days after you met her in person that would have been a huge RED FLAG for me.
If she is a mature woman and a mother it may put certain obligations on her behavior.

When being in the USA I went to the local night club with my friend I came out completely dissapointed as we'd felt that people had been looking at us but noone except for local girls had tried to speak with us and noone tried to touch us or to dance with us.

Touching would earn a slap in my experience!   

[I/O]

ACB: From what I can see you have a practical and for the most part, similar approach that I took to this whole thing. I have long thought that if a guy want's to get serious about this, he should have something of a passion for travel for travel sakes. Let the ladies be of secondary importance.

You clearly have one or more genuine friends among this community to support you and I have long thought JB is the type of guy I would want in my trench under fire. Seems I am correct. I suspect he would say similar to me in so far as, cruise along and enjoy the journey, but let the destination be the destination if and when the time comes. In my case, the destination jumped up and bit me on the arse when I least expected it and for that matter, was probably sooner than if I had planned it all out in detail.

I frankly don't think it is for us to dissect your meeting/time with the lady X. You have been around the block long enough to figure that out for yourself. Don't burn bridges, but recognise when it is time to take steps. (Big long ones in the opposite direction)

Thanks for the nice simple report. I have to say that I am amazed with Delta. Overboooking is standard practice among the international carriers, as is upgrading those they cant fit into "Cattle class" if they end up over allocated. This is one I would go very public on. IMO you should milk this for all it is worth, and whilst you may not get cash compensation, you may at least get some credits towards future flights.

All the best.

I/O

[Serebro]

Touching would earn a slap in my experience!   

Well, I know girls who like brave men.

[acrzybear]

I didn't understand...did you arrive at those conclusions because of your inner feelings and her not kissing you in public or because you had a conversation with her and she told you that she didn't like you?!

 I was not looking for a kiss in public, but when you are with a lady everyday and during the 6 hour ride to St. Petersburg (during the second week) you tell her that you like holding her hand and you reach out and touch her hands, when she pulls her hands back and folds her arms-that sends a pretty clear signal to me. If my purpose was for sex, then I would have saved a few thousand dollars and found some local bimbo for that. If X had offered sex during the two + weeks I would have been disappointed and moved on.  I do not feel that I need to rush things just because she is 5000 miles away.

 As far as being in charge, I don't think that's a problem.  I would ask some questions to try and get a feel for what she was thinking and then make a decision as to where I wanted to eat or what I wanted to see.  I deal with and in am in charge of type A personalities for a living, so I don't think that was an issue. 

  I did not go to Russia looking for sex or someone to cling to me after the 3rd date, I am a very independent person and do not do well with clingy people.  But if you are with a lady for 18 days and she will not hold your hand in public or private, and always has her arms folded or in her coat pockets-well I'm not a rocket scientist, but even my tiny neathrandel brain can figure out that body language.

  I agree that meeting the family and cooking for me and inviting me to her flat where her mother cooked an excellent meal are usually positive signs, X did not show any positive emotion towards me at any time.  I asked her for her e-mail  and she could not remember it, I left the door open by giving her my e-mail and such with negative results.

  I am a fairly private/conservative guy when it comes to showing affection in public and look for the same in a potential partner. I enjoy holding hands and quick kisses in public, but anything further then that is a no go for me.  As much as I would have liked it to it to work out between X and myself, she did not feel the same. 

  I saw her Aunt (a lovely down to earth lady) several times when I was walking (by myself) around town and she would walk up and hug me like I she knew me all my life.  As I said the family gathering (about 15 members) was great, I truly felt like part of the family.  But the bottom line is if the lady doesn't really feel anything, then nothing is going to happen no matter how much the family likes you. 

 I have no regrets, I am a responsible adult (most of the time ) and I know all of the arguments and pitfalls of the WOVO method, but anything else is just not me, I WILL not change my values or standards for anyone.

 
 

   

[timothe]

  I saw her Aunt (a lovely down to earth lady) several times when I was walking (by myself) around town and she would walk up and hug me like I she knew me all my life.  As I said the family gathering (about 15 members) was great, I truly felt like part of the family.  But the bottom line is if the lady doesn't really feel anything, then nothing is going to happen no matter how much the family likes you. 

Sounds to me like you read the situation right.  I went through the exact same experience on my first trip.  The woman's mother was very warm and friendly and accomodating...treatly me practically like family.  But the woman I met was cold and unfriendly and obviously disinterested in my mild advances. 

This adventure is not an easy one.  It's expensive, time-consuming, emotionally draining, and there really is no guarantee for success.  But if you decided to try it again and visit other ladies, I'm sure you'll find many available ladies with good qualities who are interested in you.

[Serebro]

 I was not looking for a kiss in public, but when you are with a lady everyday and during the 6 hour ride to St. Petersburg (during the second week) you tell her that you like holding her hand and you reach out and touch her hands, when she pulls her hands back and folds her arms-that sends a pretty clear signal to me. If my purpose was for sex, then I would have saved a few thousand dollars and found some local bimbo for that. If X had offered sex during the two + weeks I would have been disappointed and moved on.  I do not feel that I need to rush things just because she is 5000 miles away.

  I did not go to Russia looking for sex or someone to cling to me after the 3rd date, I am a very independent person and do not do well with clingy people.  But if you are with a lady for 18 days and she will not hold your hand in public or private, and always has her arms folded or in her coat pockets-well I'm not a rocket scientist, but even my tiny neathrandel brain can figure out that body language.

 
  I am a fairly private/conservative guy when it comes to showing affection in public and look for the same in a potential partner. I enjoy holding hands and quick kisses in public, but anything further then that is a no go for me. 

 the bottom line is if the lady doesn't really feel anything, then nothing is going to happen no matter how much the family likes you. 

 I have no regrets, I am a responsible adult (most of the time ) and I know all of the arguments and pitfalls of the WOVO method, but anything else is just not me, I WILL not change my values or standards for anyone.

 

Well, I must admit it's nice to see at least someone in this crazy place who is sober and has moral values. :)Take my compliments, Bear

[I/O]

ACB: Sounds to me like the family was doing the "Hard Sell" to an extent, but the product wasn't too interested in being sold (At least to you at this time).

I note you haven't complained or sounded dejected in any way on account of how this has worked out and my compliments for that. I see many positives in this trip and a deal of "Coal Face" experience which can not be priced. If you have the time and resources to meet one by one and this is your style, then I agree, stick to your style.

I/O

[Simoni]

you tell her that you like holding her hand and you reach out and touch her hands, when she pulls her hands back and folds her arms-that sends a pretty clear signal to me.

Bear, I'm sorry your trip did not work out better, but it's great to see you realize the truth and not try to rationalize or push it. 

It's just another indication to me that the best way to go about this it to get to the fsu and meet a number of girls, and the follow up with someone you have chemistry with together.

Best wishes,
~Si

[Simoni]

 
 I have no regrets, I am a responsible adult (most of the time ) and I know all of the arguments and pitfalls of the WOVO method, but anything else is just not me, I WILL not change my values or standards for anyone.

Bear, what I'm talking about is a write none, visit many.   That way, you are not betraying your values or misleading some girl.   Instead, you meet them there and if someone clicks, then get to know her.

BTW-- Cowboys looked GREAT tonight.  7 and 1, baby!!!

[I/O]

Bear, what I'm talking about is a write none, visit many. 

Whilst keeping the paper trail nice and tidy?

I/O

[acrzybear]

I/O

  I really have nothing to complain about-I have good job that I am extremely good at (So my evaluations keep telling me), I am responsible for 8-12 Police Officers at any given time, I enjoy what I do (most of the time), I can afford to do most of the things I want, I've traveled to Ukraine, Europe and Russia.  I am healthy, have a roof over my head with food in the pantry and money in the bank, my income to debit ratio is in my favor- all in all I think I've done pretty good for a high school drop out.

  It would have been nice if X had been interested, but I was lucky in that I've seen a part of Russian people that most tourists will never see.  I have had a small glimpse of how you are treated if they like you and welcomed as one of their own and THAT is something you cannot purchase anywhere at any price.  I have been very lucky in my life and things have a way of happening that you cannot plan for. 

  With all of the things I see in my line of work, I have come to appreciate what I have.  The trip did not work out the way I planned, but I have gained some new friends in a foreign country and experienced things that I will always remember fondly.


Here I am being attacked by some Russian hooligans at the lake




As you can see I manage to hold my own against these hooligans 

[Gator]

Bear,

Thanks for the report.  I found it interesting, and I appreciate your candor.

You made the best of it.  You experienced Russia and to a less extent, RW.  I assume she was an adequate guide to Moscow and St. Piter.

You can not always trust the guideline, "you will know if a RW likes you".   I have met a couple of  RW who showed no feelings yet I found out later had liked me from the start.  But none behaved as your woman did.

Kids loved you and you would think that obvious fact would melt a cold heart, but not this time.  Her 6-yo put your hands together!  That is phenomenal and touching, and it shows how much these young kids in the FSU want a daddy.  And she pulled away!  That says it all.  It is possible that she did like you but suffers from bad psychological experiences from the past.  No one should get involved with a psychologically wounded RW.  Your personality comes across in your writings as very warm,  and you will be your happiest when surrounded by the same.

Next time please meet more than one woman.  This is time consuming if you are playing tourist; however, in finding a woman who really interests you, I  subscribe to the law that "More is Better".   And if you are confused about how a woman feels after a couple of days, ask the agency to have a woman-to-woman talk in her language about her feelings and then report back to you.

Serebro,

Well, I must admit it's nice to see at least someone in this crazy place who is sober and has moral values. :)Take my compliments, Bear

Are you saying this because Bear is a policeman and you expect him to behave like Russia's policemen?  Or do you really find the rest of us morally corrupt?  Or perhaps the rest of us are fine and Bear is just "head and shoulders" above us?

Thoughts on JB,

That was splendid of JB to help you as he did.  He is a fine citizen.   I miss him.  He must be really busy with his oil consulting assignments.

[Lily]

Her 6-yo put your hands together!  That is phenomenal and touching

Oh, I wanted to say exactly the same but Gator turned to be quickier than I 

The two pictures above show you best Bear. But the one with the Shreck look somehow less than expressive..

Excellent report, and I 'd join I/O on the issue with Delta.

[acrzybear]

I left out a number of details that I did not wish to share, but I will add a few things;

 Saint Petersburg reminded me of some European cities- a beautiful city with beautiful buildings and so much history.  Moscow was ok, but it was extremely rushed and very impersonable-no charactor compared to St. Petersburg.  I did notice that there were many beautiful ladies, but my primary focus was on the culture, X and her son. I found it quite interesting to sit on a park bench drinking tea along the Volga and just watching people.

  When I go back I would like to spend at least a week in Saint Petersburg with someone that knows the city a little bit, X had never been to Saint Petersburg.  I'm not sure if it was just her or Russian women in general, but she would sleep until 1:PM or so and then take and hour or two to get ready.  I would wake up around 8:00am and then just walk for several hours exploring the city.  I did get lost once, but was able to get readjusted and find some familiar landmarks.  

  I was a gentleman and saw X to her door every night.  There is nothing like being in a foreign country, not speaking the language and taking a route taxi by yourself at 11:00PM-That was a adrenaline rush!!  

  Either I am an extremely lucky man or I have angels working overtime to protect my foolish butt :angel:

 As far as the WMVM method, I understand the concept-the more you meet the better the odds.  I don't have the financial resources of some of the members of this board and cannot afford to take 4 or 5 trips a year and spend the amount of money the WOVO method costs, but I am not willing to meet several women without knowing something about them.  I also am not thrilled with writing to a bunch of ladies from an agency and juggling them around.  

  The problem as I see it is that underneath all of my cynicalism I am a hopless romantic, I guess that's the price one pays for being raised by a single mother.

  As I have said several times I was raised as a single child and I am used to being alone, if I am meant to get married then I will-but if  am meant to be single then so be it.  Until then I will travel and enjoy life (as much as I can) and continue to try and make a difference in my little part of the world and keep my sense of humor.

sincerely

Don Quixote