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Author Topic: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12  (Read 109005 times)

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Offline mhr7

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #500 on: September 25, 2016, 12:25:47 PM »

I have never read about feminists preaching promiscuity, hating motherhood, or having children as a life choice.  There is a wage gap. As for gays, of course they deserve equal rights.  If you describe them as degenerates, how would you describe men who go to an economically disadvantaged country to leverage a "trade up"?
Why is there a wage gap? Because women get paid less for doing the same job? There are laws that prevent this from happening. There's a wage gap because of choices people make.
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #501 on: September 25, 2016, 12:33:29 PM »
Yes, and no.  Women generally do make less because they are out of the workforce for lengthy periods.  However, in many professions (law, accounting are two I know well), women start at slightly lower salaries, and, even childless women never catch up.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline mhr7

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #502 on: September 25, 2016, 12:38:07 PM »
Yes, and no.  Women generally do make less because they are out of the workforce for lengthy periods.  However, in many professions (law, accounting are two I know well), women start at slightly lower salaries, and, even childless women never catch up.
Men are more willing to work overtime, relocate to find a job and negotiate salaries. Things like this make a difference.

If women are willing to start at a lower salary then it gives them an advantage in the marketplace, right? Who's going to hire a man if they can get a woman, who's equal in every way, for less money? Equal pay for equal work doesn't give employers any incentive to hire a woman over a man.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 12:45:12 PM by mhr7 »
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #503 on: September 25, 2016, 12:41:35 PM »
And why is that? 


Because women are still overwhelmingly responsible for childcare, household chores, and care of elderly parents.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline mhr7

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #504 on: September 25, 2016, 12:49:29 PM »
And why is that? 


Because women are still overwhelmingly responsible for childcare, household chores, and care of elderly parents.
These are choices, not discrimination. Men do chores, raise kids and take care of parents also. Nobody forces women to do these things.
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #505 on: September 25, 2016, 12:54:33 PM »
I didn't say they are caused by discrimination.   But in some professions, that discrimination does still exist. 


http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/06/gay-men-women-lesbian-earnings-wage-gap/396074/
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 01:00:25 PM by Boethius »
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Offline alex330

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #506 on: September 25, 2016, 01:20:02 PM »
Men do chores, raise kids and take care of parents also. Nobody forces women to do these things.


Yea, in many relationships we know this is split pretty equally these days. Maybe it depends on location, education, and cultural background a bit as well though.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #507 on: September 25, 2016, 01:26:36 PM »
These are choices, not discrimination. Men do chores, raise kids and take care of parents also. Nobody forces women to do these things.


Quote
.Eleven years ago, 63 percent of men reported doing some household activity, while 84 percent of women did. In 2014, the numbers were almost the same, according to the BLS: 65 percent for men and 83 percent for women. Of those men and women who engaged in household duties at all, women spent about 2.57 hours on them each day in 2014, a decrease of 9 minutes over 11 years. Over the same period, men's contributions have remained intransigent: In 2003 they spent 2.1 hours a day on housework, while in 2014 it was 2.11 hours. (On a positive note, more men seem to be into cooking.)

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-26/women-in-the-u-s-still-do-way-more-housework-than-men


Quote
According to an interesting new Pew study, men have taken on vastly more of the domestic workload than they did in 1965 — about two and a half times as much. No surprises there. But a very small percentage of fathers bear the brunt of the housework and childcare in their home. Moms still spend about twice as much time with their children as dads do (13.5 hours per week for mothers in 2011, compared with 7.3 hours for fathers, according to Pew).What has changed is the attitudes of these men have about the shift. They are quickly becoming O.K. with the idea that the mothers of their children will be working outside the home too. This trend has been quite dramatic: “In 2009, 54% of fathers with children under age 17 said the ideal situation for young children was to have a mother who did not work at all outside the home,” Pew reports. “Today only 37% of fathers say that — a drop of 17 percentage points.” This could well have something to do with the economy. The number of households who can survive on the income of only one of the two potential breadwinners has dwindled since the recent recession.
http://healthland.time.com/2013/03/19/who-does-more-at-home-men-or-women/

« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 01:31:50 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline fathertime

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #508 on: September 25, 2016, 01:29:11 PM »
I have also no problem with equal rights.




I suspect the vast majority of women that are feminists aren't looking for unjust handouts.  Just the same rights/opportunities as they would get if they were men.


Fathertime!
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Offline mhr7

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #509 on: September 25, 2016, 01:53:08 PM »

I suspect the vast majority of women that are feminists aren't looking for unjust handouts.  Just the same rights/opportunities as they would get if they were men.


Fathertime!
But that's just it. What rights/opportunities don't women have that men do? Laws require equality and we have things like affirmative action, title 9, etc. that give advantages to those who are not white males. What more needs to be done?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 01:57:17 PM by mhr7 »
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Offline Patagonie

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #510 on: September 25, 2016, 02:15:00 PM »
Men are more willing to work overtime, relocate to find a job and negotiate salaries. Things like this make a difference.

If women are willing to start at a lower salary then it gives them an advantage in the marketplace, right? Who's going to hire a man if they can get a woman, who's equal in every way, for less money? Equal pay for equal work doesn't give employers any incentive to hire a woman over a man.
+1
We are observing here in France among officials, who are strictly paid the same (i insist they are STRICTLY paid the same, no difference if you are a man or a woman), that woman are paid less because they work less (they generally get their wednesday off) and if their average wage for the basic hour is less than men it's because they have been recruited to a lower category (not because they are women but because they pass successfully administrative competition in lower categories).

It's true that some women for the same job, same function, same time worked earn a little less in the private sector. But that's not really significant.
In this competitive market nowadays tell me which company, who is the boss who would refuse to ONLY recruit women if it's possible to pay them 10 or 20% less,  like feminism is claiming, who would like to refuse such advantage, to lower the company wages, in the market? And improve his competitiveness?

It's just that this difference doesn't exist, that is just a fake, a fake story to just lobby more privileges.
If such difference was existing, men would not find a job, purely and simply.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 02:16:57 PM by Patagonie »
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Offline fathertime

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #511 on: September 25, 2016, 02:31:13 PM »
But that's just it. What rights/opportunities don't women have that men do? Laws require equality and we have things like affirmative action, title 9, etc. that give advantages to those who are not white males. What more needs to be done?


Well, although met with resistance, Title 9 was/is a good thing.  I'm not the guy to answer the question of what more is needed.  I'd listen to what the ladies have to say though.  If something isn't fair, then lets make it right....nothing more is needed.

Fathertime!   
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Offline Slumba

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #512 on: September 25, 2016, 04:44:50 PM »

I have never read about feminists preaching promiscuity, hating motherhood, or having children as a life choice.  There is a wage gap.  As for gays, of course they deserve equal rights.  If you describe them as degenerates, how would you describe men who go to an economically disadvantaged country to leverage a "trade up"?



Thank you for the honesty.  So, it really isn't about feminism.


I would quibble with the better educated part, though.  FSU education is subpar.

I congratulate you on never reading Cosmo magazine, Ms. and never visiting such popular feminist-oriented sites like jezebel.com , xojane.com, feministing.com (not sure if that is still around) , and the feminist part of HuffPo, the Guardian, etc.

That said, just because you "have never read" it does not mean, it does not exist. 

There are countless examples - 60 seconds of google-ing should find you plenty.  And, I have posted such example articles before.

Concerning the wage gap, I think others in the thread have answered.

FSU education may or may not be subpar.  However many of the women I have communicated with, continue their education by reading many books per year, having other hobbies that lead to them having new skills and knowledge, etc. 

I won't say "many" because I don't know the percentages, but some number of AW, having finished their college days, no longer view reading books that require a lot of attention (such as a 200+ page novel or a non-fiction book about a subject) as something they want to do.

re: "trade up" - guys have to use whatever advantage Nature and chance have given us. 

We can't all look like Justin Trudeau, you know...
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 04:46:36 PM by Slumba »
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #513 on: September 25, 2016, 05:11:46 PM »
I congratulate you on never reading Cosmo magazine, Ms. and never visiting such popular feminist-oriented sites like jezebel.com , xojane.com, feministing.com (not sure if that is still around) , and the feminist part of HuffPo, the Guardian, etc.
That said, just because you "have never read" it does not mean, it does not exist. 

There are countless examples - 60 seconds of google-ing should find you plenty.  And, I have posted such example articles before.

Cosmo was never a feminist magazine. 

I am not referring to popular culture, which is not about feminism.  I am referring to writers and philosophers, such as Judith Butler, Linda Martin Alcoff, Charlotte Bunch, or even Gloria Steinem. 

Quote
Concerning the wage gap, I think others in the thread have answered.

Yes, I did.  You're welcome.

Quote
FSU education may or may not be subpar.  However many of the women I have communicated with, continue their education by reading many books per year, having other hobbies that lead to them having new skills and knowledge, etc. 

I won't say "many" because I don't know the percentages, but some number of AW, having finished their college days, no longer view reading books that require a lot of attention (such as a 200+ page novel or a non-fiction book about a subject) as something they want to do.

According to surveys and the publishing industry, college educated AW are more likely to read books than any other group in the U.S.

But, when I look for book recommendations for fiction, I go to datalounge.  In my experience, no one gives better book reading recommendations than middle aged gay men.
Quote

re: "trade up" - guys have to use whatever advantage Nature and chance have given us. 

I don't have issue with this.  Just the rationales which deny this almost universal truth.

Quote
We can't all look like Justin Trudeau, you know...

Which gives me the opportunity to post another photo of him. :P   




I will say, though, at Justin's age, the better half was handsomer (objectively).  Some day, when his relatives in Ukraine have all passed on, if I am still here, I'll post a photo to prove it.
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #514 on: September 25, 2016, 06:53:39 PM »
BTW Slumba, your tagline suggests to me that you will either have to change your mentality or look elsewhere.  Almost all the FSUW you meet are the descendants of peasants, and most still retain a lot of that "peasant mentality".


My Grandmother, God rest her soul, was a peasant.  I would put her mentality far and above that of most posters here.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Boethius

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #515 on: September 25, 2016, 08:57:14 PM »
Just took a walk with the better half.

Told him about this thread.  He said two things:

1.  Yes, FSUW read books.  However, in his experience, if you ask them about it, you will get a blank stare (i.e., no comprehension).  vwrw touched on this re FSU education.

2.  The feminist movement, from his study of it, has been hijacked by its leaders to propel themselves into position of power/money/influence at the expense of other women.  I never thought of it that way, but in some respects, I can't disagree.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 09:03:52 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Slumba

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #516 on: September 25, 2016, 10:06:04 PM »
Cosmo was never a feminist magazine. 

I am not referring to popular culture, which is not about feminism.  I am referring to writers and philosophers, such as Judith Butler, Linda Martin Alcoff, Charlotte Bunch, or even Gloria Steinem. 


GOALPOSTS MOVED.  INTO ORBIT

According to surveys and the publishing industry, college educated AW are more likely to read books than any other group in the U.S.

Yes, I know about the publishing success of "Twilight" and "Fifty Shades" ... IMHO few read classics, aside from any that inadvertantly end up on the Oprah Book Club (such as Pearl S Buck's The Good Earth) .
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #517 on: September 25, 2016, 10:28:51 PM »
No, I just rejected your goalposts.

As for books, have a look at the bubblegum for the mind that's sold in the FSU. They're not reading great literature. At least books like The Goldfinch still have sales of 1.5 million or so.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Slumba

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #518 on: September 25, 2016, 11:20:54 PM »
No, I just rejected your goalposts.

As for books, have a look at the bubblegum for the mind that's sold in the FSU. They're not reading great literature. At least books like The Goldfinch still have sales of 1.5 million or so.

The goalposts in question are describing the boundaries of the mainstream / popular culture in the USA which is heavily influenced by feminism.

Few AW (and none of the ones the members of this board would be likely to be interacting with) have read the authors you have mentioned.
 
I think one of those authors I did interact with on Twitter ... pretty sure she ended up blocking me  8)  She seems to have deleted months' worth of her posts though.

I did mention Ms. magazine which was started by Gloria Steinem BTW.
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #519 on: September 25, 2016, 11:30:00 PM »
You'd be surprised at what women read.

Ms magazine has been out of print for some time, though I believe they have a blog.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Patagonie

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #520 on: September 25, 2016, 11:41:25 PM »
Just took a walk with the better half.

Told him about this thread.  He said two things:

1.  Yes, FSUW read books.  However, in his experience, if you ask them about it, you will get a blank stare (i.e., no comprehension).  vwrw touched on this re FSU education.

2.  The feminist movement, from his study of it, has been hijacked by its leaders to propel themselves into position of power/money/influence at the expense of other women.  I never thought of it that way, but in some respects, I can't disagree.

The feminist movement, from his study of it, has been hijacked by its leaders to propel themselves into position of power/money/influence at the expense of other women.  I never thought of it that way, but in some respects, I can't disagree.

I needed  a lot of time to figure out that's the worst inequality is between women and feminists NEVER talk about equally sharing the fruits of their battle, that's the signature of an unhealthy motive and goal.
They absolutely want to pursue the old system that is favouring the sexual selection and the social preselection by birth but just to secure and increase their benefits from such situation.
It's only rewarding a tiny fraction of the women.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 09:59:06 AM by Patagonie »
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Offline alex330

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #521 on: September 26, 2016, 07:54:27 AM »
It's true that some women for the same job, same function, same time worked earn a little less in the private sector. But that's not really significant.
In this competitive market nowadays tell me which company, who is the boss who would refuse to ONLY recruit women if it's possible to pay them 10 or 20% less,  like feminism is claiming, who would like to refuse such advantage, to lower the company wages, in the market? And improve his competitiveness?


Pat brings up a very valid point. In this day and age from an operations standpoint it does not make sense. When companies are cutting benefits, shifting from W2 to 1099 hires, moving offshore, and laying off senior employees to hire younger and cheaper replacements a 10-20% reduction in operations costs is enormous. If it was exactly the same performance level why the difference?




Offline ML

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Re: The real reason why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #522 on: September 26, 2016, 08:07:09 AM »
One needs to spend on average $3000 per month in maintenance and repair bills to keep up a Ferrari. Might want to relate FSU women to a Cadillac. Don't want to scare off the newbies.

One of my friends way-back-when bought a Porsche 911.
He was bragging how it would last forever and depreciate very slowly.
Then found out he needed to take it in every month or so for 'fine tuning.'
Don't remember the monthly cost (and it would have been in 'before inflation dollars' anyway) . . . but it was a lot.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 08:18:38 AM by ML »
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Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #523 on: September 26, 2016, 08:55:59 AM »
...laying off senior employees to hire younger and cheaper replacements a 10-20% reduction in operations costs is enormous. If it was exactly the same performance level why the difference?
In 1998 I was encouraged to resign from IBM Italy with lavish extra benefits :D, along with 600 other 'oldies' out of a total workforce of 12,000, i.e 5%.

A fortnight later IBM ads appeared in major Italian newspapers offering formazione/lavoro (education/work) temporary positions to new graduates, presumably for wages 1/3 of mine or less and possible hirings a year later if all went well.

However, I doubt these youngsters could have had the skills and productivity I had obtained through my 30 years of work there ;).

Nowadays IBM Italy is down to 6,000 employees, which makes me think that their wage-saving strategy was not as effective as hoped :-\.
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Offline alex330

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Re: Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12
« Reply #524 on: September 26, 2016, 09:47:33 AM »
In 1998 I was encouraged to resign from IBM Italy with lavish extra benefits :D , along with 600 other 'oldies' out of a total workforce of 12,000, i.e 5%.

A fortnight later IBM ads appeared in major Italian newspapers offering formazione/lavoro (education/work) temporary positions to new graduates, presumably for wages 1/3 of mine or less and possible hirings a year later if all went well.

However, I doubt these youngsters could have had the skills and productivity I had obtained through my 30 years of work there ;) .

Nowadays IBM Italy is down to 6,000 employees, which makes me think that their wage-saving strategy was not as effective as hoped :-\ .


Yes, it happens all the time. I watched it happen to my father. Cut loose senior management who have children and benefits packages in favor of young and hungry kids right out of college for a fraction of the salary. Hire them on as 1099's with no benefits.


In tech it depends on whether the senior members keep their skills sharp or not. We hired an older dev last month that was so far behind we ended up letting him go. We lost money on the deal. Of course there is no replacement for years of knowledge and experience though...

 

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Re: American With Russian Fiancé - Scheduled For K1 Interview In Warsaw, BUT.... by krimster2
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Re: American With Russian Fiancé - Scheduled For K1 Interview In Warsaw, BUT.... by Infoman
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Re: American With Russian Fiancé - Scheduled For K1 Interview In Warsaw, BUT.... by krimster2
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American With Russian Fiancé - Scheduled For K1 Interview In Warsaw, BUT.... by Infoman
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Re: What to do by Trenchcoat
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Ukrainian refugee working for me now by ML
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Ukrainian refugee working for me now by ML
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Re: What to do by Trenchcoat
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Re: If you don't know what you are talking about, post away anyway by Trenchcoat
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Re: Twenty Years... and Counting (MarkInTx Update) by supranatural
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