More Bad News for Russia

[BillyB]

There's no doubt that the contract, procurement and cancellation were controversial as Jane's reports but you're including editorial comment with the events surrounding the cancellation itself which doesn't change the time line.

Do you think they're stupid? I showed you other news sites that also agree the Pentagon is defying Congress. It's not opinion, it's fact. If you think the Pentagon did as Congress asked in 2013 when Russia was supplying arms to Assad, why did Congress have to request the Pentagon again in 2014 to stop buying helicopters from Russia after Russia invaded Ukraine? Congress too stupid to remember what they requested in 2013? They made the request twice because the Pentagon didn't listen to them the first time. Pentagon twice defied Congress and continued to buy those overpriced choppers.


Congress wanted a complete stoppage of money and military equipment exchange with Russia effective immediately at the time requested. France signed a contract with Russia in 2011 too but for a couple of ships but Obama didn't want them to honor their contract. Obama is a hypocrite or he really wanted to get money into Russia's hands. I betcha Obama is going to continue to allow American tax dollars to buy Russian parts for those choppers no matter how aggressive Russia gets in Ukraine.

[lordtiberius]

Spending 35% of your budget on defense spending sounds pretty bad to me also.  Can't forget that little tidbit.

JFK spent 50%

[lordtiberius]

Interesting post. 

You realize, of course, that if the West is fully engaged, Russia loses.  Putin understands this.  Otherwise he would have rolled over Ukraine like a steam roller and that would be that.

The other thing that immediately comes to mind is that you state that Russia isn't playing a game.  Everything I've seen from Putin is gamesmanship.  The whole 'brokering government change' during Maidan.  The move into Crimea.  The unacknowledged war in Eastern Ukraine. 

You're the one who doesn't see it for what it is.  This is a chess match that Putin has created.  You cannot argue that Russia 'ain't playin a game'.  They are.

If the West is fully engaged, there is nuclear war and Ukraine is not worth going to war over.  Georgia wasn't.  Chechnya wasn't.

[lordtiberius]

When are YOU leaving and going to fight what you apparently so strongly believe in?  I don't do drugs, i'm happy with life as it is.


Fathertime!

You, Steamer and lFU hate America.  When are you leaving? 

[Steamer]

You, Steamer and lFU hate America.  When are you leaving?

Big laughs, aint happinin,

[lordtiberius]

Why would you stay in a country that uses force to defend freedom?

[fathertime]

You, Steamer and lFU hate America.  When are you leaving?

You hate America and that is why you have already gone.  That is called addition by subtraction!   


Fathertime! 

[LiveFromUkraine]

You hate America and that is why you have already gone.  That is called addition by subtraction!   


Fathertime!

He hates people who don't agree with him.  I believe that is called Christianity. 

[lordtiberius]

You believe? And you say atheism is not a religion

[Larry1]

"No Money? Eat Less!" United Russia Lawmaker Advises

A lawmaker from the ruling United Russia party has offered his advice to Russians struggling to pay for food amid the country's soaring inflation: "Eat less."

Food prices in the Urals' Sverdlovsk region have increased by around 25 percent compared to the same period last year, figures cited by regional lawmaker Ilya Gaffner indicate, but he said it was "not that bad," according to video footage posted online Thursday.

Food price inflation in Russia has peaked over a sharp devaluation of the ruble currency and bans imposed on a range of European food imports in response to Western sanctions. Inflation is expected to accelerate even more this year.

During a televised visit to a local grocery store in Yekaterinburg, Gaffner suggested that Russians should draw inspiration from the most devastating periods in their country's history and enjoy the supposed health benefits of going hungry.

"We are all Russians, we have lived through hunger and cold," Gaffner told Novy Region television station.

"If supposedly there isn't enough money, people should think about their health and somehow eat less," he said lightheartedly.

... Some local inhabitants may be hard-pressed to appreciate the advice.

"I have a disabled son, he is constantly asking for sugar," a woman in the store told Gaffner. "I am forced to deny him, because there is simply no money at all anymore."

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/no-money-eat-less-united-russia-lawmaker-advises-/514808.html

[Faux Pas]

It was found out the US was supplying muhahideen with aid for 6 months prior to Soviet intervention.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html



Operation Cyclone was the code name for the United StatesCentral Intelligence Agency (CIA) program to arm and finance the Afghan mujahideen prior to and during the Soviet war in Afghanistan, from 1979 to 1989.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone

The CIA were making covert moves against the Soviets all over the globe as was the Soviets against the U.S. as well. The U.S. aiding the Soviet enemies was nothing new even then. The aiding of the Mujahadeen wasn't a precursor to the Soviets invasion. The Soviets invaded because they thought their puppet government in Kabal was going to fall. The CIA aid was certainly helpful to the Muj but the government was likely going to fall any way. That aid you speak of was insignificant compared to the aid they received later on. Thus, it has little to nothing to do with provoking the Soviet invasion FTR

[AC]

The CIA were making covert moves against the Soviets all over the globe as was the Soviets against the U.S. as well. The U.S. aiding the Soviet enemies was nothing new even then. The aiding of the Mujahadeen wasn't a precursor to the Soviets invasion. The Soviets invaded because they thought their puppet government in Kabal was going to fall. The CIA aid was certainly helpful to the Muj but the government was likely going to fall any way. That aid you speak of was insignificant compared to the aid they received later on. Thus, it has little to nothing to do with provoking the Soviet invasion FTR

And it has even less to do with what is going on in Ukraine, yet the trolls like "live from ukraine the kremlin" keep trying.

We armed the Muhadeen so that they could defend and then take back their own territory from an invading Army, the Soviets.  We never took any Afghani territory for ourselves.

The Russians arming the "separatists" are doing so because they are thieves who want to steal territory from a neighboring country, Ukraine.  Just like they already stole Crimea, they hope to steal more.

So just one small and glaring difference between US actions around the world, and the Soviet/Russian actions.

However it doesn't stop the trolls from trying to deflect from the true nature of what Russia is doing right now.

[Muzh]

That's a very big if. I don't think that the west wants to go to war over a place that it doesn't want. I've said before that the worst thing that could happen to the EU is to 'win' Ukraine and then have to rebuild it. I think that would finish the EU, which is why I think the sanctions will quietly go away.

The West doesn't go to war over a place it doesn't want?


What is the West going to do when it is Poland's turn? Lithuania? Estonia? Latvia? Hungary? Romania? Czech Republic? Slovenia?


Steamer, history has proven that there will be a country next in line.

[Muzh]

Excuse no, explain yes. Russia doesn't need to have some big offensive push in Ukraine, just let them stew in their own juices and see if attitudes change.

That's Western thinking.


Wrong.

[Muzh]

You, Steamer and lFU hate America.  When are you leaving?

So, when are you going to offer to beat them up? 

[Muzh]

He hates people who don't agree with him.  I believe that is called Christianity. 

LMFAO


Prime example.

[Brasscasing]

Do you think they're stupid? I showed you other news sites that also agree the Pentagon is defying Congress. It's not opinion, it's fact.

No Billy, it's not fact. It's Russian propaganda. They even use the same wording...

Pentagon 'defies Congress to buy Russian helicopters for Afghanistan'

http://rt.com/news/180236-russian-helicopters-pentagon-afghanistan/

Pentagon Insists on Buying Russian Helicopters for Afghanistan - Rosoboronexport

http://sputniknews.com/military/20140814/191992635/Pentagon-Insists-on-Buying-Russian-Helicopters-for-Afghanistan--.html

Don't buy into this crap it'll drive you nuts.

If you think the Pentagon did as Congress asked in 2013 when Russia was supplying arms to Assad, why did Congress have to request the Pentagon again in 2014 to stop buying helicopters from Russia after Russia invaded Ukraine? Congress too stupid to remember what they requested in 2013? They made the request twice because the Pentagon didn't listen to them the first time. Pentagon twice defied Congress and continued to buy those overpriced choppers.

Congress did not have to request the Pentagon (stop buying helicopters) again
in 2014. From yet another news source...

Pentagon cancels plans to buy Russian helicopters

 Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:49pm EST
..."(Reuters) - The Pentagon no longer will buy Russian helicopters for the Afghan Air Force from Rosoboronexport, a state-owned arms exporter that also sells weapons to the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, U.S. defense officials and a leading Senate opponent of such deals said on Wednesday.

The switch in Pentagon policy appears to end, at least for now, its plans to buy an additional 15 Russian Mi-17 helicopters for $345 million, sources familiar with the matter said."...

..."Defense Department spokeswoman Maureen Schumann said in an email: "After initially requesting funds from Congress in the FY14 (2014 fiscal year) budget to provide additional enhancements for the Afghan National Security Forces, the department has re-evaluated requirements in consultation with Congress."

"We currently do not have plans to purchase additional Mi17s from Rosoboronexport beyond those in the Afghan Program of Record," she said"...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/13/us-usa-russia-helicopters-idUSBRE9AC17720131113

No helicopter procurement in Fiscal Year 2014.  Now, if you can show me that the Pentagon bought helicopters after mid Nov 2013 I'd be mighty interested in reading it but I don't think you're gonna find anything supporting that claim.

Yes, there was some controversy  and Congress was questioning the Pentagon about the helicopters and/or their buying them but that took place in 2013 before the cancellation not 2014.

Congress wanted a complete stoppage of money and military equipment exchange with Russia effective immediately at the time requested.

Seems to me according to most reports Congress was in consultation with the Pentagon not ordering them to cease and desist.

France signed a contract with Russia in 2011 too but for a couple of ships but Obama didn't want them to honor their contract. Obama is a hypocrite or he really wanted to get money into Russia's hands. I betcha Obama is going to continue to allow American tax dollars to buy Russian parts for those choppers no matter how aggressive Russia gets in Ukraine.

And again, Billy. Several countries urged France to withhold delivery of the Mistrals but the final decision is with the French Government not Obama, Cameron, Harper or any other world leader/nation. It is they who are towing the line. I'm sure they've taken those requests under advisement but the final decision rests with them.

I don't think anyone, NATO or the U.S. is buying those parts right now. Rosoboronexport was included in this last round of sanctions Obama signed into law in Dec.

Brass

[AkMike]

In Crimea came "Load-200" (LIST)
Founder of the dead on the Ukrainian Donbass Russian soldiers' load-200 "and the eponymous site, human rights activist Elena Vasileva published a list of the Crimean killed during the war in eastern Ukraine

This writes the " New time ", the Espreso.TV .

"Load-200" continues to go to. Now already in the Crimea. Crimea morgue filled completely, and home dovezut zinc few "- said Vasiliev.

Human rights activist published a list of names of those who have left the Crimea war on the territory of Donbass and died there.

In addition, according to human rights activist, for all time in the hostilities in the Donbas killed more than five thousand Russian contract. This "relatives came up thousands of" cargo-200 ".

"The Russian population Putin - nothing. And he very clearly shows is an example of the behavior of dead Russian soldiers ... Ukrainians, no matter how evil they are not painted, take DNA in each of the deceased, picked up on the battlefield. Among them are many Russian citizens without any identification marks, "- says Vasilyev.

Meanwhile, the Russian Defense Ministry can not or do not want to organize a DNA test adds human rights activist.

In general, according to Vasilyeva, from the beginning of December in Ukraine killed more than 300 Russian soldiers. The activist also announced its victims, whose bodies come in.


http://espreso.tv/news/2014/12/15/do_krymu_prybuv_quothruz_200quot_spysok

[AkMike]

Ex-terrorist leader: “Referendum in Crimea was a farce”


Igor Girkin, ex-minister of defense of the so-called Donetsk Republic, who fled Donetsk in August of 2014, when Ukrainian forces began their suppression of terrorist forces, has now become a peculiar kind of self-whistle blower. Recently, sitting in a studio of  the “Polit-Ring” debate TV show featured by something called NeuroMirTV, Girkin has openly described some of the schemes which were implemented during the illegal referendum in Crimea in the spring of 2014, which was later used as the excuse by Russia for the annexation of the peninsula. As his opponent is passionately describing how Crimean outfits of the Ukrainian army and the police were, in his opinion, in all ways supporting of “people’s desire to reunite with Russia”, Girking quietly laughs, and retorts:

“Have you actually been to Crimea during the referendum? Well, I have. I have been there since February the 20th. What you are describing here is absolute rubbish. There were no policemen who supported our side at that time. The only law-enforcement subdivision that has joined our ranks back then was the Berkut. The rest of the law-enforcement agencies remained under control of Ukrainian Ministry of Internal, and kept carrying out the MIA’s orders. Yes, sometimes they were sabotaging these orders, but all in all they were under Ukrainian control. I haven’t seen any support from official governmental representatives in Simferopol. Our troops had to force the deputies into the Oblast Council hall so that these representatives would vote in favor of our initiatives. I know this because I have been at the time commandeering one of such militant teams and I’ve seen it all from the inside. We had absolutely no support from the people, not to mention the army. The Ukrainian army units remained loyal to Kyiv as they were. Furthermore, most of the army remained that way. The only thing that made what we have accomplished in Crimea possible was the presence of Russian army.” (Fragment of video in Russian):



Girkin’s militant façade is pretty much gone today, as if the ex-terrorist is trying to distance himself from responsibility for his crimes. His Cossack style wavy hair has become neatly trimmed; his camouflage is now replaced with cozy Mr. Rogers cardigan. Though outspoken about the atrocities he caused, of which he seems to be nevertheless proud, an ex-rebel prefers to maintain somewhat neutral towards the war today, though bitter about, as he puts it, the lack of Russian support in the East of Ukraine. Whether this is his way of agitating for further Russian invasion or simply a covert lie to avoid awkward questions about his rushed departure from Donetsk in the end of August 2014 is hard to tell. What is undeniable though is that Girking is not too keen about returning to his “rebellion” activities in Ukraine. Perhaps it is time for his comrades to follow their leader’s example. After all, he is still alive and in one piece.
http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/01/24/ex-terrorist-leader-referendum-in-crimea-was-a-farce/

[Brasscasing]

Spot report by the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine (SMM), 24 January 2015: Shelling Incident on Olimpiiska Street in Mariupol

..."At approximately 09:15hrs on 24 January, the SMM in government-controlled Mariupol heard at its location incoming massed Multi-Launch Rocket System (MLRS) attacks from a north-east direction, consisting of an extremely heavy barrage lasting 35 seconds. Twenty minutes later the SMM received information from the Joint Centre for Control and Co-ordination (JCCC) in Mariupol and other sources, that shelling had occurred in the area of Olimpiiska Street, in Ordzhonikidzevskyi district, 8.5 km north-east of Mariupol city centre, approximately 400 metres from a Ukrainian Armed Forces checkpoint.

At 10:20hrs the SMM went to Olimpiiska Street and saw seven adult civilians dead. The SMM observed in an area of 1.6 km by 1.1 km, including an open market, multiple impacts on buildings, retail shops, homes and a school. The SMM observed cars on fire and windows facing the north-eastern side of a nine-storey building shattered. The SMM was able to count 19 rocket strikes and is certain there are more. Four hospitals and the emergency service in the city informed the SMM that at least 20 people died and 75 people were injured and hospitalized. Ten of the wounded were in a critical condition, according to a hospital representative.

The SMM conducted a crater analysis and its initial assessment showed that the impacts were caused by Grad and Uragan rockets. According to the impact analysis, the Grad rockets originated from a north-easterly direction, in the area of Oktyabr (19 km north-east of Olimpiiska Street), and the Uragan rockets from an easterly direction, in the area of Zaichenko (15 km east of Olimpiiska Street), both controlled by the “Donetsk People’s Republic” (“DPR”).

At 13:02hrs and 13:21hrs the SMM heard again incoming MLRS salvos lasting for eight seconds, from an easterly direction. At a distance of 300 metres the SMM saw smoke above the Ukrainian Armed Forces’ checkpoint number 14 (8.9 km north-east of Mariupol city centre), just several hundred metres away from where the shelling had hit in Olimpiiska Street."...

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/136061

Brass

[Brasscasing]

NATO Secretary General statement on the attack on Mariupol


Press Release (2015) 015
Issued on 24 Jan. 2015


..."Fighting in eastern Ukraine has sharply escalated, with indications of a large-scale offensive by Russian-backed separatists at multiple locations in the Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts as well as against the city of Mariupol. This is in utter disregard of the ceasefire. The shelling of residential areas in the city of Mariupol from separatist-controlled territory has cost the lives of at least 20 civilians, and injured many more.

For several months we have seen the presence of Russian forces in eastern Ukraine, as well as a substantial increase in Russian heavy equipment such as tanks, artillery and advanced air defence systems. Russian troops in eastern Ukraine are supporting these offensive operations with command and control systems, air defence systems with advanced surface-to-air missiles, unmanned aerial systems, advanced multiple rocket launcher systems, and electronic warfare systems.

I strongly urge Russia to stop its military, political and financial support for the separatists, stop destabilising Ukraine and respect its international commitments."...

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_116852.htm

 Sorry, what was that again...

..."I strongly urge Russia to stop its military, political and financial support for the separatists, stop destabilising Ukraine and respect its international commitments."...

You strongly urge!?! See here you f*cking' monkey get your collective asses up from that round table of yours and start doing the job you get paid for.  I promise you this; If you don't start showing some initiative there's going to be a popular movement started to personally hold you people in that cluster f*ckfest you call NATO headquarters collectively and personally responsible for criminal negligence and incompetence for standing idle when you should be acting.

Boneheaded press releases don't cut it. Get to work.

Brass

[calmissile]

NATO Secretary General statement on the attack on Mariupol


Press Release (2015) 015
Issued on 24 Jan. 2015


..."Fighting in eastern Ukraine has sharply escalated, with indications of a large-scale offensive by Russian-backed separatists at multiple locations in the Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts as well as against the city of Mariupol. This is in utter disregard of the ceasefire. The shelling of residential areas in the city of Mariupol from separatist-controlled territory has cost the lives of at least 20 civilians, and injured many more.

For several months we have seen the presence of Russian forces in eastern Ukraine, as well as a substantial increase in Russian heavy equipment such as tanks, artillery and advanced air defence systems. Russian troops in eastern Ukraine are supporting these offensive operations with command and control systems, air defence systems with advanced surface-to-air missiles, unmanned aerial systems, advanced multiple rocket launcher systems, and electronic warfare systems.

I strongly urge Russia to stop its military, political and financial support for the separatists, stop destabilising Ukraine and respect its international commitments."...

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_116852.htm

 Sorry, what was that again...

..."I strongly urge Russia to stop its military, political and financial support for the separatists, stop destabilising Ukraine and respect its international commitments."...

You strongly urge!?! See here you f*cking' monkey get your collective asses up from that round table of yours and start doing the job you get paid for.  I promise you this; If you don't start showing some initiative there's going to be a popular movement started to personally hold you people in that cluster f*ckfest you call NATO headquarters collectively and personally responsible for criminal negligence and incompetence for standing idle when you should be acting.

Boneheaded press releases don't cut it. Get to work.

Brass

Great post Brass.  We are in agreement 100%

[Изумруд]

Wow, this guy was incredibly lucky, it doesn't get much closer than this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD_bwzPbGrA&feature=youtu.be

[BillyB]

No Billy, it's not fact. It's Russian propaganda. They even use the same wording...

Don't buy into this crap it'll drive you nuts.

Just because Russian media reports the same thing Western media reports doesn't mean it's all propaganda. Russian media is capable of telling the truth sometimes and Western media is capable of their own free thinking without Russian media's help.

Seems to me according to most reports Congress was in consultation with the Pentagon not ordering them to cease and desist.

I did it before and I'll do it again by posting links that report Congress wanted the Pentagon to terminate the contracts, not honoring existing contracts, not pay, and not take delivery of unfinished, overpriced helicopters.


http://www.defenseone.com/management/2014/05/pure-home-state-politics-behind-russian-helicopter-opposition/84970/


http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324170004578636323792403926


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/18/senators-push-to-cut-off-pentagon-contracts-with-russia-amid-ukraine-crisis/

I don't think anyone, NATO or the U.S. is buying those parts right now. Rosoboronexport was included in this last round of sanctions Obama signed into law in Dec.

You forgot to mention the small print on that last round of sanctions. The bill authorizes sanctions against Russia's defense and energy industries, including the arms exporter Rosoboronexport. The president may waive them for national security reasons. Those helicopters were bought to fight terrorists, which is a national security issue, because they're the only ones Afghan pilots can fly but for some reason we still have to pay for their training. Go figure. The President and the generals he appointed will buy more overpriced products from Rosoboronexport, Russia's main arms dealer, because the Prez added a waiver to the sanctions for a reason. He needs to get money into someone's hands who lives in Russia.


http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-aid-bill-heads-to-obama/26743453.html


If Obama weren't into politics and participated on this forum, I'd swear he'd be pro-Putin. Although our intelligence says Russia was always doing things counter productive to democracy and American interests, Obama hit the reset button with them trying to be their friend and reward them with profitable arms deals. Helicopters aren't the only thing we are buying from Russia. Obama also rewards Iran richly just to lure them to negotiating table. Iran is the same country that supplied weapons to terrorists to fight our troops in the Middle East. Obama likes to make friends in all the wrong places. Reagan would let Israel bomb Iran's nuke plant just as he let them do Iraq's. It would be cheaper and we'll sleep better when fanatics, who kill our troops, aren't rewarded. I think the only reason Obama is acting(weakly) against Russia now, is to make a showing he cares about people in the free world. After all, he is their leader. I don't think he'll shed a tear if Ukraine is lost to Russia.

I strongly urge Russia to stop its military, political and financial support for the separatists, stop destabilising Ukraine and respect its international commitments."...

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_116852.htm

 Sorry, what was that again...

..."I strongly urge Russia to stop its military, political and financial support for the separatists, stop destabilising Ukraine and respect its international commitments."...

You strongly urge!?! See here you f*cking' monkey get your collective asses up from that round table of yours and start doing the job you get paid for.  I promise you this; If you don't start showing some initiative there's going to be a popular movement started to personally hold you people in that cluster f*ckfest you call NATO headquarters collectively and personally responsible for criminal negligence and incompetence for standing idle when you should be acting.

Boneheaded press releases don't cut it. Get to work.

That I totally agree with you on. Every time Russia acts aggressive, the West strongly urges them to stop. They sound like a broken record repeating themselves with the same words, different day with no results. They don't know how to get results. They haven't got the slightest clue that their tough talk isn't going to stop Putin.

[AkMike]

The UN said the same thing today.. Except they threatened to put a bad mark on their report card.