Trippin in St Pete

[Jooky]

They wrote quite a bit of vile things about me that are quite frankly completely ugly and untrue.

Including being called a 'coward' for not pursuing the married waitress. Sure reveals the character of his detractors.

[Gator]

All they (AM) have been taught is to play with the words and twist a sense. As a result they will be proved you that you are guilty of all,  therefore on termination your marriage you will be a debtor and have to pay off their debts.

This conclusion exceeds the limits of my imagination to comprehend.

Something is at work here (Bill's case) that Kvinna can not express or we can not grasp.  That happens sometimes between my girlfriend and me.

[Zmejka]

A few pages ago, when I felt more sympathetic to the AD cause, I asked if she had many AD posters who were happy with their Western men. 

So i'm the poster on antidate and here and on some other forums and happy with my man. I just tend to think that many girls don't usually read trip reports and even some innocent things can upset them - i assume this exactly happened to Bill. This controversion resembles that "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" saying, both parties are to blame for it, may be that little drop that Bill had to bring with posting that pictures or mentions of gum or condoms overwhelmed the glass. It's connected more not with justice but with bitter experience. It's difficult to rule out this situation.

[Daveman]

So i'm the poster on antidate and here and on some other forums and happy with my man. I just tend to think that many girls don't usually read trip reports and even some innocent things can upset them - i assume this exactly happened to Bill. This controversion resembles that "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" saying, both parties are to blame for it, may be that little drop that Bill had to bring with posting that pictures or mentions of gum or condoms overwhelmed the glass. It's connected more not with justice but with bitter experience. It's difficult to rule out this situation.

Now this is an intelligent, well expressed thought that I can completely understand, Zmejka.  Thank you for posting. 

David

[Lily]

This conclusion exceeds the limits of my imagination to comprehend.

Something is at work here (Bill's case) that Kvinna can not express or we can not grasp.  That happens sometimes between my girlfriend and me.

Gator, don't worry about it. I can not grasp lots of things that are expressed by antidate at the Bill's case either, despite I am Russian

Mysterious Russian soul..

[Daveman]

All they (AM) have been taught is to play with the words and twist a sense. As a result they will be proved you that you are guilty of all,  therefore on termination your marriage you will be a debtor and have to pay off their debts.


She's saying, all American men have been taught to play with the words and twist the meaning, so as a result, they will prove the Russian Woman is guilty (AM not accepting responsibility, but instead twisting the blame to her), therefore when the marriage breaks up, the Russian Woman will bear the burden...


I think... 

[LEGAL]

So i'm the poster on antidate and here and on some other forums and happy with my man. I just tend to think that many girls don't usually read trip reports and even some innocent things can upset them - i assume this exactly happened to Bill. This controversion resembles that "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" saying, both parties are to blame for it, may be that little drop that Bill had to bring with posting that pictures or mentions of gum or condoms overwhelmed the glass. It's connected more not with justice but with bitter experience. It's difficult to rule out this situation.

On the basis of bitter experience they try to make  justice. Zmeika, I have noticed some girls even have not read  Bill's trip reports and just repeated the words of each other in different ways.

Olga.   

[BillyB]

Maybe I should remind you story about blacklisting of Robert Mudge on our board and happened after this?
Yes, he was blacklisted without evidence (or proofs) by several of guys from this board
look at mirror

Robert(Anono) was blacklisted by antidate at antidate, not the guys here. Unlike Bill, he did talk about sex on his trip reports and post photos of the ladies he had sex with. So you ruled there was no evidence and remove the thread pertaining to Robert. Lucky guy, I guess AD considers Bill worse so that's why his thread will remain?

Kvinna, I've have participated in your English speaking forum and even debated your love, Zvi. You and him don't believe in the holocaust because you see no evidence that Nazi's targeted Jews. If evidence is so important to you, then what evidence do you have that Bill had sex with anyone and posted their picture? If he did not have sex, then all he did was try to anonymously post pics of ladies he visited. Maybe one could call it tacky but it's not a crime.

I have seen a lady, Zmejka, at AD quote Tigerpaws pertaining to something he wrote in 2005. Is this something the guys here will be subject too? Will AD girls start taking men's words from this forum on a regular basis and debate whether or not they should be on the blacklist? The guy will be ridiculed but he will not be invited to defend himself? Should the guys here have the eye for an eye attitude and list AD women on a blacklist if they say something that disrespects men? Particularly American men since I see topics over there that have a number of women putting down Americans.

Some of the people at antidate inability to see the hate Nazi's had for the Jews has the same inability to see the hate they have for men. When hate rules the mind, justice and tolerance does not prevail. I don't think looking in the mirror is going to help.

[Gator]

So i'm the poster on antidate and here and on some other forums and happy with my man. I just tend to think that many girls don't usually read trip reports and even some innocent things can upset them - i assume this exactly happened to Bill. This controversion resembles that "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" saying, both parties are to blame for it, may be that little drop that Bill had to bring with posting that pictures or mentions of gum or condoms overwhelmed the glass. It's connected more not with justice but with bitter experience. It's difficult to rule out this situation.

Thank you Zmejka.  A very credible explanation.

It is so easy for everyone to jump to conclusions in spirited discussions on the Internet.  Perception always dominates reality.  The answer usually sits somewhere in the middle. 

[Zmejka]

I have seen a lady, Zmejka, at AD quote Tigerpaws pertaining to something he wrote in 2005. Is this something the guys here will be subject too?

I made a post with the words "that pissed me off when i read it the first time" and it was true. I remember how the members of this board were also not pleased with that expressed attitude. I didn't offer to post him onto a black board, i quoted him as an example of an attitude that can really reflect our reputation in that newly-opened section. Anyway he's married and they deal with their own issues inside their family. But if such statements would do a man who is in the search - i would prefer to be warned about it.

[Rvrwind]

There is no such thing as a sex tourist!!!
Are ya' friggin' nuts????
Ya' can't be a sex tourist if you don't have sex & you can't have sex if they don't take their panties off!!! So how can any man be a sex tourist??? Even if he comes here or anywhere looking specifically for sex, if no women oblige him, how can he be a sex tourist??? And if they do oblige him it is of their own free will, so how can that constitute a sex tourist???
Gawd, I'm with jb, what a waste of bandwidth!!!
Kvinna has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Antidate will lie or whatever they have to do to blacklist the innocent along with the guilty. All antiscam sites should be outlawed.
Where I come from when you scream wolf & there is no wolf, you find yourself in more trouble than the wolf.

[wxman]

Once a person posts on any site it is there for the whole world to see. I see no problem with Zmejka quoting another person and using it in another forum to express her dissatisfaction. She didn't accuse Tigerpaws of being a sex tourist and post his picture. She didn't cross the line and label someone a sex tourist or scammer and then post their picture. That is the problem with scam site and forums. They may label a man or women unjustly with their photos which can affect a person throughout their lives. More and more, employers are googling prospective employees and if they come across these false allegations, this person might not be hired as the employer will not know if they are true or not. Being labelled a sex tourist, prostitute, etc, based on the words of somebody else without true recourse amounts to nothing more than a witch hunt.  Having these so called scam sites, people may think they are reading legitimate information on someone, but in reality, no one knows what is really true or not, and the real crime is ruining someone's reputation based on false accusations.    

[Bruno]

There is no such thing as a sex tourist!!!

Yes, they exist... but the definition of them is very different of what AD women think...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_tourist

Sex tourism is travel (by men or women) to engage in sexual intercourse or sexual activity with prostitutes, and is typically undertaken internationally by tourists from wealthier countries whose payment for services may then be rendered either in cash or in kind.

The World Tourism Organization, a specialized agency of the United Nations, defines sex tourism as "trips organized from within the tourism sector, or from outside this sector but using its structures and networks, with the primary purpose of effecting a commercial sexual relationship by the tourist with residents at the destination".

So, a sex tourist pay hooker... it is a "business"

And seem that sex tourist exist for both gender :

The primary destinations for female sex tourism are Southern Europe (mainly Italy, former Yugoslavia, Turkey, Greece and Spain), the Caribbean (led by Jamaica, Barbados and the Dominican Republic), the Gambia and Kenya in Africa, the Philippines and Pattaya or Phuket in Thailand. Lesser destinations include Nepal, Morocco, Fiji, Ecuador and Costa Rica. Female sex tourism differs from male sex tourism, in that women do not usually go to specific bars. Women usually give clothes, meals, cash and gifts to their prostitutes, but not all (especially in Southern Europe) expect compensation.

This remember me a story from when i was with my marriage agency... i have refuse the advert from a RW... Why ? She was not seeking a husband but free holiday in exchange of night prestation... She was seeking a man who pay the trip, the stay ( hosting, food, etc ). She was free the day but he can enjoy her at night... Yes, you have women like this in FSU... and i think that so women are hurting more the russian reputation that the Bill report...

One more quote for Richard :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_sex_tourism

Tourist women are called Shirley Valentines (if British), longtails (in Bermuda), yellow cabs (Japan) and, in Jamaica, milk bottles if newly arrived or Stellas if black. Female sex tourism in Barbados has been dubbed “Canadian secretary syndrome.”

Richard, can you explain what is so special to the "Canadian secretary" 

[Rvrwind]

wxman - dead on & therein lies the reality of what these sites can & do do to a pperson or businesses reputation. I have no problem with their intentions, those are grand ideals, but irrifutable proof must accompany any accusation, period!!!
If they cannot prove it beyond the shadow of a doubt, they should not be permitted to post it!!!

[Rvrwind]

Richard, can you explain what is so special to the "Canadian secretary"

Sorry Bruno, no I cannot. I've never had one & most I have seen are 100 lbs overwieght so why & where this term came from are totally beyond me. Maybe some other Canucklehead on the board can enlighten you & me!!

[Bruno]

Sorry Bruno, no I cannot. I've never had one & most I have seen are 100 lbs overwieght so why & where this term came from are totally beyond me.

No problem... i know why... because they are 100lbs overweight, they cannot have a local man... so, they seek in very poor country where they can have sex in exchange of some shoes...

Sex tourist from both sex go to other country for have something that they cannot have home... Some country have more light law about prostitution, some country close eyes on child prostitution, etc...

Here in Belgium, law have change a little a few year ago... Belgium sex tourist who have sex relation with minor ( below 18 y.o. ) can be send to jail in Belgium, same if the fact have happen in a country who allow it... it was the end of the charter plane to Asia full of Belgium sex tourist seeking very young girls...

It is time to have international law who apply worldwide... criminality don't know the borders... but it is almost impossible... you will always have a country who refuse to sign any protocal because the sex industry mean a lot of money...

[WmGO]

I am glad that this matter involving the blacklisting of Bill seems to be working towards some kind resolution. I think that it wise to take a look back at what we have learned. Since it is easier for me to organize my thoughts with numbered paragraphs, I will use that writing method, bearing in mind that I am not placing them in any order of importance. And I am addressing not just RWD but also the AD audience:

1. It is unwise and inappropriate to post an FSUW's photo on this or any other RW discussion site without the woman's knowledge, permission and consent. This is true even if the face is partially covered.

2. Sex tourism is morally reprehensible and RW such as those on antidate have every right to and should combat that in *appropriate* ways.    

3. It is not appropriate to "blacklist" a man as a "playboy with no serious intentions" unless there is absolute concrete proof of this. The same is true for the higher indictment of "sex tourist".  It is not appropriate to do so just based on innocuous statements in a man's trip report. It must be based on a clear admission of no serious intentions or confessing to activity evidencing no serious intentions such as admitting to sleeping or trying to sleep with multiple women.

And just traveling to the FSU many times and meeting a lot of women is NOT being a "playboy". It merely demonstrates the near impossibility of a man just waltzing over to a foreign country and finding a needle (the soulmate) in a haystack. The fact that a man keeps trying only proves his earnest desire and hopes (some would say his foolhardyness) to find a wife against bad odds. Restated: multiple trips meeting multiple women standing alone does not indicate much less prove that a man has no serious intentions. In point of fact, it proves the opposite.

4. One woman's conclusory allegation  that a man is a playboy with no serious intentions is simply not enough to justify putting a man on a blacklist. Discussing it in their forum yes, putting the man on a blacklist no.

5. It is fair game for AD or any other Russian women wesite to discuss in their forum the contents of WM's trip reports posted on the internet. However, it is not fair to jump to terrible conclusions about a man and his intentions based on speculation, supposition cultural misunderstanding or personal bias against WM-FSUW dating.

6. Any WM posting a trip report should be circumspect in how he reports about his trip. Don't post photos of FSUW if they have not given permission.

7. Sexual relations is the single most private matter between a man and a woman and therefore is not appropriate to be discussed or even mentioned in a trip report IMHO. Keep private things private.

8. Any AD member reading a WM's trip report should remember that most people reading forums such as this want to read trip reports more than anything else. It is human nature to be curious and want to know what happended with a man and his trip to another country. WM, especially American men, have a style and method including the use of national phrases and slang that RW will not understand. In addition, men may tend to "jazz up" the report to make it more interestng. In writing a report some men are subconsciously turned into "want to be" novelists, and so will say things and include things that are entirely innocent, but which makes the report more interesting to read and many of these things can be misunderstood by RW.

IT is not fair for any RW to jump to conclusions about innocuous items in a man's trip report as being disrespectful or bad.  If you read it and have a question about it you are morally obligated to question the man about it as opposed to jumping to conclusions about him. May I say one more thing about this without any AD ladies getting mad? That is this: of all the countries I have traveled to in my life there are no people more prone to making assumptions and jumping to conclusions than Russian and Ukrainian people. This is not a put down, it is just an observation on my part which I have discussed with dozens of FSU people over the years and they all have agreed with me that yes they have a bad tendency to do this. So if you find yourself doing that, recognize it and adjust to be fair.

{Caveat: by making a cultural observation I am only doing that. It is  not judgment. If I critiqued my own country the list would go from here to the moon, but that is not the subject of this post.}

9. I am glad to hear that once all of the FSUW photos that Bill posted on the internet are removed that AD will remove his photo from and his designation on the blacklist. This is a fair conclusion. Thank you AD, Kvinna et al. for being willing to do this.

10. This is a serious item that I cannot leave out - the subject of condoms. Yes Kvinna, I have been to your country many times and I know you have preservatives there just like all countries have them. The subject of HIV, other sexually transmitted diseases, and unwanted/unplanned pregnancy is TOO SERIOUS for anyone anywhere  to be criticising a man for having condoms with him. We have a global crisis. It is life and death serious. My first advice to everyone would be: obey God. My next advice would be, if you cannot control yourself at least don't play Russian roulette. Be responsible. And responsibilty cuts both ways  -  it is just as much about protecting the woman as it is the man. It is therefore NOT appropriate to be negatively judging a man, any man, over the condom issue. This is a critical area for detente and mutual understanding promoting responsibilty to combat a global scourge.  In other words, a "hands off" zone.

{Yes, it is tacky for a man to mention it in his trip report} ( tacky means poor taste).

***************************************************
CHANGING SUBJECTS.....

11. On your website Kvinna I noticed a thread where a lady asks what would a man prefer in woman: good looks or a woman who has good utilitarian skills (or something like that). Her avatar photo, as most of the avatar photos of your posters, is a very attractive model type woman. Is that her real photo? Are the other avatar photos the real photos of the posters? I was just wondering..........it seems AD has many unusually attractive women just looking at the avatar photos......

[BillyB]

I made a post with the words "that pissed me off when i read it the first time" and it was true. I remember how the members of this board were also not pleased with that expressed attitude. I didn't offer to post him onto a black board, i quoted him as an example of an attitude that can really reflect our reputation in that newly-opened section. Anyway he's married and they deal with their own issues inside their family. But if such statements would do a man who is in the search - i would prefer to be warned about it.

Why didn't you take the the wise words men say at RWD and bring it to AD to show how most of us think? Or, did you want to take the worst you could find and add to the feeding frenzy? Those ladies at AD have already stereotyped the men here. You didn't just hurt Tigerpaws, you hurt all guys here.

Taking words off this forum breaks copywrite laws I believe. But it is also unproffesional to gossip behind people's back. If you want the ladies at AD to read what Tigerpaws said, send them a link and they could debate him face to face in his thread instead of talking behind his back without being able to defend himself.

As you say, you were not pleased with TP's attitude nor were the members of this board. Did you tell the ladies at AD that the majority of men here did not approve of what Tigerpaws said or were they left to believe men here supported his words. I don't support TP's quoted words but I haven't read everything he wrote either.

You didn't offer to post TP on the blacklist but you do have the attitude you liked to be warned about it. It is that attitude that will get more and more men on a blacklist based on select people choosing certain words or phrases out of many to condemn the person as a whole.

[Rvrwind]

Yes Bruno, there should be a few international laws. Not only regardin this subject but regarding so called anti scam websites as well.
Sex is & always has been the oldest industry in the world. Why people get their panties in such a knot over it is beyond me. As long as it is between two consenting adults (over 18) in my opinion its nobody elses friggin' business.
Prostitution should be handled as it is in the Netherlands rather than scorned. Regulate it, licence it & tax the hell out of it. Simple & would probably cut back on the amount of rapes worldwide if these eggheads new they could go down to the local & pay $25.00 for a fling. Would also put the woman beating pimps & forced prostitution out of business!! As long as it is adults participating I see no harm in it whatsoever.
But when it comes to children & sex or child porn the penalty for those should be made so high that anybody would be afraid to pursue that path. Making a eunich out of them works for me!

[Zmejka]

Why didn't you take the the wise words men say at RWD and bring it to AD to show how most of us think? Or, did you want to take the worst you could find and add to the feeding frenzy?

BillyB, i wish you won't get overreacted as it's already difficult situation. It was my opinion and i brought his words as an example when the speech touched those whose words can ruin russian reputation. I want to stress that many girls don't read trip reports and don't know in what way some of them are being discussed. In a way i wanted to let the people see the differenct between what can be written and Bill's report and that the last is quite innocent. I don't want to touch TigerPaws' personality and if i hurted it i did it not intentionally. And i'm sorry. I think i don't need bringing the following posts from this forum to antidate as women as men can also make comclusions.
May be that post didn't suit right that topic and was viewed in wrong light. I don't want any of the parties get paranoid and starting shooting at each other just to hurt more.
You know the value of black list is that women (and men) save their time and not persue people who behaved badly in the past. Of course the patterns of behavior can be known through dating provess but black lists can prevent that meeting to happen if a person doesn't have credits. And i would like to be warned of such a behavor.
Now i'm against placing people there according to one person's talking. I will be working together with Kvinna on deleting of out-of-date or proveless information from the black list. I didn't know how large is unsatisfaction on the part of russian woman by men's behavor. It's pouring over the edge and Bill just happened to be the last straw that broke the camel back. 
It becomes more complicated to judge what to consider "offending for russian reputation". Some people are against that man post their trip reports and tell in it where they went with a lady, what they did etc. They consider it to be private matter and not for the eyes of the public community added it's not some useful information about FSU. How to deal with it? Where to find a solution?

[Admin]

I am glad that this matter involving the blacklisting of Bill seems to be working towards some kind resolution. I think that it wise to take a look back at what we have learned. Since it is easier for me to organize my thoughts with numbered paragraphs, I will use that writing method, bearing in mind that I am not placing them in any order of importance. And I am addressing not just RWD but also the AD audience:

1. It is unwise and inappropriate to post an FSUW's photo on this or any other RW discussion site without the woman's knowledge, permission and consent. This is true even if the face is partially covered.

2. Sex tourism is morally reprehensible and RW such as those on antidate have every right to and should combat that in *appropriate* ways.   

3. It is not appropriate to "blacklist" a man as a "playboy with no serious intentions" unless there is absolute concrete proof of this. The same is true for the higher indictment of "sex tourist".  It is not appropriate to do so just based on innocuous statements in a man's trip report. It must be based on a clear admission of no serious intentions or confessing to activity evidencing no serious intentions such as admitting to sleeping or trying to sleep with multiple women.

And just traveling to the FSU many times and meeting a lot of women is NOT being a "playboy". It merely demonstrates the near impossibility of a man just waltzing over to a foreign country and finding a needle (the soulmate) in a haystack. The fact that a man keeps trying only proves his earnest desire and hopes (some would say his foolhardyness) to find a wife against bad odds. Restated: multiple trips meeting multiple women standing alone does not indicate much less prove that a man has no serious intentions. In point of fact, it proves the opposite.

4. One woman's conclusory allegation  that a man is a playboy with no serious intentions is simply not enough to justify putting a man on a blacklist. Discussing it in their forum yes, putting the man on a blacklist no.

5. It is fair game for AD or any other Russian women wesite to discuss in their forum the contents of WM's trip reports posted on the internet. However, it is not fair to jump to terrible conclusions about a man and his intentions based on speculation, supposition cultural misunderstanding or personal bias against WM-FSUW dating.

6. Any WM posting a trip report should be circumspect in how he reports about his trip. Don't post photos of FSUW if they have not given permission.

7. Sexual relations is the single most private matter between a man and a woman and therefore is not appropriate to be discussed or even mentioned in a trip report IMHO. Keep private things private.

8. Any AD member reading a WM's trip report should remember that most people reading forums such as this want to read trip reports more than anything else. It is human nature to be curious and want to know what happended with a man and his trip to another country. WM, especially American men, have a style and method including the use of national phrases and slang that RW will not understand. In addition, men may tend to "jazz up" the report to make it more interestng. In writing a report some men are subconsciously turned into "want to be" novelists, and so will say things and include things that are entirely innocent, but which makes the report more interesting to read and many of these things can be misunderstood by RW.

IT is not fair for any RW to jump to conclusions about innocuous items in a man's trip report as being disrespectful or bad.  If you read it and have a question about it you are morally obligated to question the man about it as opposed to jumping to conclusions about him. May I say one more thing about this without any AD ladies getting mad? That is this: of all the countries I have traveled to in my life there are no people more prone to making assumptions and jumping to conclusions than Russian and Ukrainian people. This is not a put down, it is just an observation on my part which I have discussed with dozens of FSU people over the years and they all have agreed with me that yes they have a bad tendency to do this. So if you find yourself doing that, recognize it and adjust to be fair.

{Caveat: by making a cultural observation I am only doing that. It is  not judgment. If I critiqued my own country the list would go from here to the moon, but that is not the subject of this post.}

9. I am glad to hear that once all of the FSUW photos that Bill posted on the internet are removed that AD will remove his photo from and his designation on the blacklist. This is a fair conclusion. Thank you AD, Kvinna et al. for being willing to do this.

10. This is a serious item that I cannot leave out - the subject of condoms. Yes Kvinna, I have been to your country many times and I know you have preservatives there just like all countries have them. The subject of HIV, other sexually transmitted diseases, and unwanted/unplanned pregnancy is TOO SERIOUS for anyone anywhere  to be criticising a man for having condoms with him. We have a global crisis. It is life and death serious. My first advice to everyone would be: obey God. My next advice would be, if you cannot control yourself at least don't play Russian roulette. Be responsible. And responsibilty cuts both ways  -  it is just as much about protecting the woman as it is the man. It is therefore NOT appropriate to be negatively judging a man, any man, over the condom issue. This is a critical area for detente and mutual understanding promoting responsibilty to combat a global scourge.  In other words, a "hands off" zone.

{Yes, it is tacky for a man to mention it in his trip report} ( tacky means poor taste).

***************************************************
CHANGING SUBJECTS.....

11. On your website Kvinna I noticed a thread where a lady asks what would a man prefer in woman: good looks or a woman who has good utilitarian skills (or something like that). Her avatar photo, as most of the avatar photos of your posters, is a very attractive model type woman. Is that her real photo? Are the other avatar photos the real photos of the posters? I was just wondering..........it seems AD has many unusually attractive women just looking at the avatar photos......

William,

Thanks for that. Whenever controversies erupt - and as we come to the point of calming them - it is always a great idea to step back and prepare a "lessons learned" piece which sorts through all the controversies and captures the essential elements in the form of how to move forward productively.

I think you did a terrific job of consolidating a great many posts into the essential 'take-aways.'

- Dan

[Gator]

Thank you WmGo.  Anyone else interested in how to address this spirited issue, please read here:


http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=4339.0


And post your own ideas here:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?board=39.0

All ideas are welcome.

[groovlstk]

I am glad that this matter involving the blacklisting of Bill seems to be working towards some kind resolution.

Resolution? Huh????

William,

Thanks for that. Whenever controversies erupt - and as we come to the point of calming them - it is always a great idea to step back and prepare a "lessons learned" piece which sorts through all the controversies and captures the essential elements in the form of how to move forward productively.

Excuse me, but before you guys go around congratulating each other and talking about lessons learned, what exactly has been resolved and what lessons were learned, and by whom?

Bill's photos and the thread villifying him are still front and center on AD, Kvinna has unequivocally stated that she has no plans to remove the photos and posts, and the only conciliation I see is on the part of RWD members who want to sweep it all under the rug and pretend that their impassioned and logical reasoning has swayed Kvinna and her ilk.

Unless I'm blind, the only "lesson" I can see in all of this is that it's crude and unwarranted to post a woman's photos and/or personal information in a trip report without her permission.

And that's all.

I'm sorry to keep this thread going but I think it's only fair to Bill to at least acknowledge that from now on, it looks like he's on his own in trying to have his photos removed and his reputation restored.   

Dan, I apologize for the negative tone of my post, I know you have your hands full and you do a great job of running this board. I'm simply confused at how this thread has evolved. The last few posts indicate that there has been some sort of compromise and that Bill will at least be given a fair shake yet there's absolutely nothing from Kvinna or anyone from AD to indicate this. Unless there's something going on behind the scenes which has yet to play out, the "resolution" is simple acquiescence on our part.
 

[WmGO]

Groove,

It has been posted above that AD agreed to remove Bill's blacklist designation and photo once he removed all of the FSUW photos he posted on various websites with his trip report. I am proceeding forward on the basis that that is correct. If it is not, then I want to know about it as then this thread would certainly still be very much alive.

If the info that an agreement was reached is correct, then after all of Bill's TR photos are removed  from the websites where he posted them, we can check to see if AD kept their agreement. If not then yes there is much still to be done....

[Admin]

Resolution? Huh????

Excuse me, but before you guys go around congratulating each other and talking about lessons learned, what exactly has been resolved and what lessons were learned, and by whom?

Bill's photos and the thread villifying him are still front and center on AD, Kvinna has unequivocally stated that she has no plans to remove the photos and posts, and the only conciliation I see is on the part of RWD members who want to sweep it all under the rug and pretend that their impassioned and logical reasoning has swayed Kvinna and her ilk.

Unless I'm blind, the only "lesson" I can see in all of this is that it's crude and unwarranted to post a woman's photos and/or personal information in a trip report without her permission.

And that's all.

I'm sorry to keep this thread going but I think it's only fair to Bill to at least acknowledge that from now on, it looks like he's on his own in trying to have his photos removed and his reputation restored.   

Dan, I apologize for the negative tone of my post, I know you have your hands full and you do a great job of running this board. I'm simply confused at how this thread has evolved. The last few posts indicate that there has been some sort of compromise and that Bill will at least be given a fair shake yet there's absolutely nothing from Kvinna or anyone from AD to indicate this. Unless there's something going on behind the scenes which has yet to play out, the "resolution" is simple acquiescence on our part.
 

No apology necessary.

At the time of my post, for some reason, I thought I had read that Kvinna had agreed to remove the material about Bill - just as soon as the photos Bill posted were removed. Bill managed to get all the photos removed - and I believe Kvinna has removed Bill's photo in the AD Blacklist.

Part of the problem when a firestorm of this sort erupts is - Kvinna now has a conundrum. Assuming she gives similar consideration to members at AD that is given here at RWD, she will be unable to unilaterally remove the lengthy topic in which Bill was 'discussed' (ridiculed is probably a better term). I think she *should* remove it - but at the same time, there are some who feel the same about me and lengthy topics here, and I have refused because it would not be fair to the members who contributed.

I have no idea how Kvinna will resolve this.

- Dan