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Author Topic: Sex Tourism and Prostituiton  (Read 14737 times)

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Offline Boethius

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Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« on: July 08, 2018, 12:45:13 PM »
I really dont think a western man would spend all the time and money to meet a fsu lady, if he couldnt  follow through on marrying her.

You have obviously never been to Ukraine. Its cities are full of exactly that type of WM.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline GenMish

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Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2018, 02:02:19 PM »
You have obviously never been to Ukraine. Its cities are full of exactly that type of WM.

You are correct, I havent been to Ukraine. Only because I was told by a good friend who travelled to the fsu that there were better quality women for marriage in Russia and I should look there.  25 years ago I did go to Russia and met my bride to be. Over the past 25 years, I have known men that went to the fsu and married, and men that went and didnt marry(uncluding Ukraine). ALL of them had the ability to marry....and I have no idea what they told the ladies they met why they couldnt marry....but all I knew knew could marry
  You dont really think a western man is spending half his vacation time for the year and another $3000-$10000 USD in expenses to vacation in an old Ukrainian industrial town for cheap sex, do you?

Offline Boethius

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Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2018, 02:42:09 PM »
You are correct, I havent been to Ukraine. Only because I was told by a good friend who travelled to the fsu that there were better quality women for marriage in Russia and I should look there.  25 years ago I did go to Russia and met my bride to be. Over the past 25 years, I have known men that went to the fsu and married, and men that went and didnt marry(uncluding Ukraine). ALL of them had the ability to marry....and I have no idea what they told the ladies they met why they couldnt marry....but all I knew knew could marry
  You dont really think a western man is spending half his vacation time for the year and another $3000-$10000 USD in expenses to vacation in an old Ukrainian industrial town for cheap sex, do you?

1.  RW are not "better quality" than UW.  That attitude speaks volumes, though.

2.  I don't have to "think" it.  I have seen it with my own eyes. 

But don't take my word for it -

http://ukraina.ru/exclusive/20180528/1020406434.html

http://znaj.ua/ru/society/yntym-po-ukraynsky-v-poyskah-chego-k-nam-edut-tysyachy-ynostrancev
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline GenMish

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Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2018, 05:20:50 PM »
1.  RW are not "better quality" than UW.  That attitude speaks volumes, though.

2.  I don't have to "think" it.  I have seen it with my own eyes. 

But don't take my word for it -

http://ukraina.ru/exclusive/20180528/1020406434.html

http://znaj.ua/ru/society/yntym-po-ukraynsky-v-poyskah-chego-k-nam-edut-tysyachy-ynostrancev


I never said RW were better, I said I went to Russia because of trusted advice from a friend. 25 years ago Ukraine too was a potential choice. However those that went to Ukraine often wanted a back up plan of beautiful $10/nt ladies of the evening . Mind you it was their back up plan....most could marry....In Russia, my backup plan was being a co pilot in a MIG for $100 a flight....the last thing I wanted was to catch HIV from a lady of the night and die for some cheap sex

Your links
I have been to Russia enough times to speak and get by. But I cant read your linked articles completely in Russian. If the articles say what you imply, they are just as disingenuous as the papers here in the USA. They write what people want to hear. Im sure many people in Ukraine are very jealous of women that have changed their citizenship to a western country and live much better lives

Offline Boethius

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Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2018, 08:37:46 PM »
Your links
I have been to Russia enough times to speak and get by. But I cant read your linked articles completely in Russian. If the articles say what you imply, they are just as disingenuous as the papers here in the USA. They write what people want to hear. Im sure many people in Ukraine are very jealous of women that have changed their citizenship to a western country and live much better lives

This is the reality of Ukraine. It is not hidden. It’s been discussed in the Rada, with one degenerate suggesting sex tourism be widely advertised as it brings a lot of money to Ukraine. Anyone who has spent any amount of time in Ukraine can see it with their own eyes-European men, American men, Turkish men, Arab men. These are the predominant sex tourists. It’s been that way since the collapse of communism, although trafficking abroad is much less frequent now, but sex tourism is worse now. To suggest papers are lying because of jealousy is, sorry, a stupid statement that ignores reality.

I have no reason to be jealous. I am a Westerner, not Ukrainian born. It makes me ill to see so many foreigners come to buy UW.

After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Online krimster2

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Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2018, 04:44:15 AM »
BO, somehow Amsterdam seems to have a thriving sex industry without enslaving women

the women who work there do so by choice, a simple matter of economics
and EVERYONE benefits from this “system”

the only thing stopping such a development in Ukraine, is the attitude of  the “social morality police” such as yourself who think sex is dirty and bad unless you’re married and making babies for the motherland - I wonder where you got that idea from?

instead of objecting to the presence of sex tourists
Ukraine should do what Amsterdam does
but that is unlikely to happen because there are too many people with your attitude
people in Ukraine are very narrow minded
at the level of Sunday school narrow minded
so now Ukrainian women just go to Amsterdam to work (I met a bunch!)
instead of making money and paying taxes in Ukraine

anyone with half a brain will leave Ukraine
by whatever means necessary
rather than put up with what they have to put up with there
and each year it just gets worse...

and by the way while you are crying over the “anthill” of sex tourists
you completely ignore the “mountain” of Ukrainian “bosses” and their female employees

you should have seen the office of Ukrsots Bank in Kyiv, staffed exclusively with young super models all of whom slept with the boss as a condition of their employment
ohhhhhhhhh, the stories I’ve heard and seen, quite remarkable

so sex tourists didn’t create this phenomena, it was there before them
Ukrainian women and their bosses created it
imagine what it was like being a factory manager with mostly female employees in Stalinist Soviet times - jeeeeeeeezzzzzus it was a literal harem for them


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Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2018, 07:00:03 AM »
BO,
for someone who lived there, you have some weird kind of distorted fairy-tale view of Ukraine, like they’re some sort of good hearted noble peasants living in clean little white houses with nice brick chimneys like in their cartoons...

the factory boss exploiting his female workers is a staple of Soviet culture
and you know this
and you know it’s just one of the countless Soviet behaviors that carried on to modern times

I’ve seen what women have to endure “on the job” in Ukraine, constant harassment and insecurity, even denial of wages if they’re not “compliant”
no such thing as any form of worker protection, no one to complain to
because basically no one there cares
even the women
I’ve witnessed myself in Ukraine,  how mother’s turn a blind eye to domestic violence on their own daughters, as long as the husband is a good provider (especially if some comes to mama!)

so to press your hand against your weary brow, and cry over sex tourists
who though annoying and a subject of much ridicule
do no real harm
compared to what Ukrainians do to each other every day there
and goes completely unmentioned by you


Offline Boethius

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Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2018, 09:55:42 AM »
BO, somehow Amsterdam seems to have a thriving sex industry without enslaving women

the women who work there do so by choice, a simple matter of economics
and EVERYONE benefits from this “system”

Right.

http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/1997/03/LOUIS/4629

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-netherlands-human-trafficking/at-least-1300-dutch-girls-per-year-trafficked-exploited-idUSKBN1CN1R2

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2017/10/some-6000-people-a-year-in-the-netherlands-are-victims-of-trafficking/

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/amsterdam-red-light-district-failing-prostitution-sex-work-decriminalisation-doesnt-work-holland-a8206511.html

Quote
the only thing stopping such a development in Ukraine, is the attitude of  the “social morality police” such as yourself who think sex is dirty and bad unless you’re married and making babies for the motherland - I wonder where you got that idea from?

I don't recall saying that.  However, the sex industry always results in human trafficking.  In Ukraine, thousands of girls 12-14 are coerced against their will into sex.  Thousands of Eastern European women - Russians, now Ukrainians, Moldovans, Romanians, are trafficked, "owing" pimps tens of thousands of dollars for their "release".  And you think that is normal?

When power differentials exist, exploitation is the inevitable result.  There are no happy hookers.  If even the highly regulated industry in Amsterdam can't stop human trafficking, what chance does a poor, corrupt country like Ukraine have?
Quote
you should have seen the office of Ukrsots Bank in Kyiv, staffed exclusively with young super models all of whom slept with the boss as a condition of their employment
ohhhhhhhhh, the stories I’ve heard and seen, quite remarkable

And they would have done so even if they were in the position of their bosses, right?

Quote
so sex tourists didn’t create this phenomena, it was there before them
Ukrainian women and their bosses created it
imagine what it was like being a factory manager with mostly female employees in Stalinist Soviet times - jeeeeeeeezzzzzus it was a literal harem for them

When you tell your daughters to go work for some Ukrainian boss and submit to him to get ahead, or put them in a window in Amsterdam for the next decade, I'll believe your story of this great egality and sexual liberation. 
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 11:53:34 AM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Boethius

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Re: Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2018, 11:10:51 AM »
BO,
for someone who lived there, you have some weird kind of distorted fairy-tale view of Ukraine, like they’re some sort of good hearted noble peasants living in clean little white houses with nice brick chimneys like in their cartoons...

the factory boss exploiting his female workers is a staple of Soviet culture
and you know this
and you know it’s just one of the countless Soviet behaviors that carried on to modern times

I’ve seen what women have to endure “on the job” in Ukraine, constant harassment and insecurity, even denial of wages if they’re not “compliant”
no such thing as any form of worker protection, no one to complain to
because basically no one there cares
even the women
I’ve witnessed myself in Ukraine,  how mother’s turn a blind eye to domestic violence on their own daughters, as long as the husband is a good provider (especially if some comes to mama!)

so to press your hand against your weary brow, and cry over sex tourists who though annoying and a subject of much ridicule do no real harm compared to what Ukrainians do to each other every day there and goes completely unmentioned by you

I ran this by the better half, whose survival depended on understanding the party.  He first said "What the h*** is he talking about?  To say that stuff means this person knows nothing about the Soviet Union.  He is either a naive peasant or lumpenproletariat."(note - he did not know you are a foreigner)  "To get to this position (i.e., factory director), that person would have been under surveillance since the time he/she was 17 or 18 (there were female factory directors, as there were quotas).  They also underwent psychological testing."


He further stated "I am not saying harassment never occurred, but a factory director who did this would lose his position immediately, because the party controlled everything, and these individuals were under party surveillance, including in their homes, 24/7.  You have to realize, the USSR was a dictatorship."

So, no, I would say your assertion is not an accurate representation of Soviet society.  There was an acknowledgement that people, especially the young, desired sex, but it was also a rather moralistic society.  Unmarried couples could not rent hotel rooms.  No one could become the General Secretary of the CPSU if he were screwing around on his wife - he would have died as a member in some region.  This is because the party had to be the leader of the society - no black spots.  There can be nothing that smears the party through this person. 
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 11:15:55 AM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Online krimster2

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Re: Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2018, 11:29:32 AM »
an apologist for the CCCP?

no "crimes" were ever committed in the Soviet Union
because everyone was watched?

threaten to lay some-one off from your factory
they lose their place to stay
and they lose their ration card
they day you do it, they will be homeless, with no food and no money
and if family doesn't help them they die
you control the complete factory
with your OWN security
you tell everyone there what to do
and you are bullet-proof
you know who the informants are
and you control them along with everyone else




Offline GenMish

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Re: Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2018, 11:34:02 AM »
BO,
You have changed your original argument. We weren't talking sex tourism on the other thread.

Originally we were discussing the men that correspond with fsu marriage minded women. You used all kinds of anti western male propaganda to suggest the western men didn't have honorable intentions with the lady they corresponded with. I then countered that most men (all I knew could) had legitimate intentions, and weren't spending all the time, money and effort for cheap sex and then throw her away as you suggested was so common. 
  Now, your data and support seems to be about the pay for sex trade in Ukraine. The same economic conditions that allow western men to marry young, beautiful, well educated, well mannered, and cultured ladies also allows for women who want to sell themselves for the night. The PRIMARY goal for men seeking a fsu woman for marriage is to find the former and avoid the later.

I would argue that in the Orthodox Christian culture, many women avoided the temptation to enter the sex trade or avoided sexual abuse by their boss because they found a western man to marry. Western men marrying quality fsu women is part of the solution, not the problem.

Online krimster2

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Re: Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2018, 11:37:57 AM »
no women were ever abused in the soviet union!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/1450145/Stalins-depraved-executioner-still-has-grip-on-Moscow.html

Mr Antonov-Ovseyenko said: "Sometimes he would have his henchmen bring five, six or seven girls to him. He would make them strip, except for their shoes, and then force them into a circle on their hands and knees with their heads together.

"He would walk around in his dressing gown inspecting them. Then he would pull one out by her leg and haul her off to rape her. He called it the flower game."



i'm sure this only happened in this one particular instance
and never by any others...

Offline Boethius

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Re: Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2018, 11:41:53 AM »
I'm not speaking of Stalin's time.  I'm speaking of times from Khrushchev on.


During Stalin's reign of terror, women in Moscow were not safe on the street, as Beria would take a liking to one and hunt her down, killing everyone who mattered to her if she did not consent to be raped by him.  A lot of those women thereafter ended up in gulags.  He also had an Armenian sidekick, whose name escapes me currently.   However, after Stalin's death, this did not occur.  The party learned the lessons of the cult of personality.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Online krimster2

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Re: Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2018, 11:58:53 AM »
and here I was talking exclusively of the Stalin era

but the culture it engendered did not become extinguished...
it reignited again...



“However, the sex industry always results in human trafficking”

not in Amsterdam, they make too much money by obeying the law to risk the penalties of breaking the law, same with “pot”

this is all “deflection” “think of the children...”

acknowledge the demand exists, regulate and tax the supply
if Ukraine did what Amsterdam did instead of keeping the sex industry underground
there’d be less problems
instead Ukrainian girls now go to Amsterdam to work
I met several a few weeks ago, very pretty girls...

as far as my own (older)daughter goes, I hope I’ve steered her right and she’ll get some type of medical degree, she’s just turned 17 and has discovered that being tall, beautiful with blond hair and blue eyes makes her the center of all male attention
and that she might be able to use this ability to her advantage...
in another year she’ll be dating adult men
who I assume will be older than her
maybe even much older
she’ll be an adult then
so it’s her choice
I trust her enough to let her make her own decisions
that's what love is



Offline Boethius

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Re: Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2018, 12:27:35 PM »
You didn't read my links.  Holland is concluding that the legalization of prostitution was a mistake, as trafficking has increased.  Watch this and tell me everything is hunky dory in Holland. -






So if your daughter decided to become a prostitute, would you be here bragging about it?  Suggesting posters increase her income?
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Online krimster2

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Re: Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2018, 02:06:12 PM »
ahhh yes TV journalism, good source....

can only tell you what I saw in person
and to the Ukrainian girls I saw in person
who were quite happy to be "working" there

Offline DaveNY

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Re: Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2018, 03:12:00 PM »
and here I was talking exclusively of the Stalin era

but the culture it engendered did not become extinguished...
it reignited again...



“However, the sex industry always results in human trafficking”

not in Amsterdam, they make too much money by obeying the law to risk the penalties of breaking the law, same with “pot”

krimster I sometimes wonder if you've ever been out of the US. It is far cheaper to use trafficked women in the sex trade than to employ willing prostitutes even in places where the sex trade is legal. There's an almost endless source of trafficked women to use in the sex trade. Places such as Africa, Asia, the Middle East and for those blue eyed blondes that command the big money, the FSU. Not so with willing prostitutes.

Getting the same types of women to prostitute themselves willingly is far more expensive. Willing prostitutes want days off each week or month, they want a say in their work schedule. They want sick leave because they get sick or their family members get sick. They want vacation time because they don't want to work all the time. If they don't like the job they might simply quit at an inconvenient time. Willing, legal prostitutes are going to want benefits such as medical/dental and the big in demand earners might demand a bigger cut of the profits. Willing, legal prostitutes cost lots of money and greatly cut into profits. 

Using trafficked women means once you've paid for the women from those trafficking women most of the profits used in the sex trade belong to the people in the sex business. The trafficked women don't have a choice on when they work or for how long or get many days off or long vacations to travel the world or sell their talents to other employers.

True there's always the chance the bosses will be caught but the bosses seem to think those chances are remote and the money's too good to pass up.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/amsterdam-red-light-district-failing-prostitution-sex-work-decriminalisation-doesnt-work-holland-a8206511.html
 

Offline BdHvA

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Re: Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2018, 03:19:13 PM »
BO, somehow Amsterdam seems to have a thriving sex industry without enslaving women

the women who work there do so by choice, a simple matter of economics
and EVERYONE benefits from this “system”



Krimster,

Sorry you are wrong, no one except criminals benefits from this 'system'. Either you are willfully ignorant or blind. The women in the tourist district are there because they are forced to be there. The government has closed down and reduced by about 50% of the red light windows but the remaining women are largely there by force. Yes there are some women present by free will but it is a very small percentage. I should note the women are far more likely to be from Central and South America than Eastern Europe.

There are other areas in Amsterdam and various cities where the manipulation of women is far greater, think 90%. Next to the Rijks Museum being one. If a Dutch woman wants to willingly trade sexual acts for money there more than enough escort platforms for this. Mostly there they are in control of there destiny.

If you had not spent your time with blinders on you could easily find organizations that attempt to help these women and they would inform you on there actual reality i.e. not some pretend virtual reality. You may protest but the church that I am a member of and is in fact the oldest English speaking church not part of the British Islands has two members who assist these women. We have heard on a first hand basis the women's working reality from them as well as welcomed some of the women to our service.

It would impress me far more if you went to a service at the English Reformed Church than played sex games on your visit to Amsterdam

« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 03:48:00 PM by BdHvA »
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

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Re: Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2018, 04:03:52 PM »
jesus... sounds like the ladies temperance society in here...

can only report what I have seen and heard with my own eyes and ears

I've personally encountered Russian hostesses in Tokyo
Russian strippers in Berlin
Ukrainian and Russian escorts in Amsterdam
Ukrainian escorts in Kyiv and Odessa

they would listen to your tales of trafficking and laugh at it and instead say they're not idiots who work a regular job for slave wages
or so I have been told over and over....

seriously, have you ever met or talked to any of them?
I have...
I learned a lot from them...
they're my source
and not some article from the Ladie's Home Journal from 1955 or thereabouts





 





Offline DaveNY

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Re: Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2018, 04:40:19 PM »
jesus... sounds like the ladies temperance society in here...

can only report what I have seen and heard with my own eyes and ears

I've personally encountered Russian hostesses in Tokyo
Russian strippers in Berlin
Ukrainian and Russian escorts in Amsterdam
Ukrainian escorts in Kyiv and Odessa

they would listen to your tales of trafficking and laugh at it and instead say they're not idiots who work a regular job for slave wages
or so I have been told over and over....

seriously, have you ever met or talked to any of them?
I have...
I learned a lot from them...
they're my source
and not some article from the Ladie's Home Journal from 1955 or thereabouts

Again krimster I find it hard to believe you've been out of the US.

Are there women who willingly become legal and illegal prostitutes? Yes. Is it likely that you would know the difference? Probably not. If these women don't perform they're beaten or worse. They're hooked on drugs. They can't leave their employers.

Their job literally is to please you. To get you to buy them drinks in bars or buy their time for an hour or two. They do that by being nice to you and talking to you. Telling you what you want to hear. These women are trained by other women on how to act and talk to get you to pay for their services. How to use a soft at times seductive voice. How to play with their hair. How to seduce you with their voice and actions.

When I got out of law school I worked for a firm that had several modeling firms as clients. Some of the models picked up extra money as prostitutes. They had the advantage of being beautiful to start. It wasn't difficult for them to persuade a man to pay them a few hundred dollars for an hour of pleasure. Most of these women had older women as mentors who taught them how to rope in the clients with their voice, looks, actions, etc.

Offline BdHvA

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Re: Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2018, 05:00:42 PM »
jesus... sounds like the ladies temperance society in here...

can only report what I have seen and heard with my own eyes and ears

I've personally encountered Russian hostesses in Tokyo
Russian strippers in Berlin
Ukrainian and Russian escorts in Amsterdam
Ukrainian escorts in Kyiv and Odessa

they would listen to your tales of trafficking and laugh at it and instead say they're not idiots who work a regular job for slave wages
or so I have been told over and over....

seriously, have you ever met or talked to any of them?
I have...
I learned a lot from them...
they're my source
and not some article from the Ladie's Home Journal from 1955 or thereabouts

Yes I have spoken in Amsterdam to women working in the skin trade. It is sad to hear there travails, rest assured it is not what they dreamed of.

It is not reassuring that you are the forum expert on this matter. What does your wife think, oh wait she already told 'you are an idiot.'
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

Offline Boethius

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Re: Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2018, 05:08:06 PM »
BO,
You have changed your original argument. We weren't talking sex tourism on the other thread.

Originally we were discussing the men that correspond with fsu marriage minded women. You used all kinds of anti western male propaganda to suggest the western men didn't have honorable intentions with the lady they corresponded with. I then countered that most men (all I knew could) had legitimate intentions, and weren't spending all the time, money and effort for cheap sex and then throw her away as you suggested was so common. 
  Now, your data and support seems to be about the pay for sex trade in Ukraine. The same economic conditions that allow western men to marry young, beautiful, well educated, well mannered, and cultured ladies also allows for women who want to sell themselves for the night. The PRIMARY goal for men seeking a fsu woman for marriage is to find the former and avoid the later.

I would argue that in the Orthodox Christian culture, many women avoided the temptation to enter the sex trade or avoided sexual abuse by their boss because they found a western man to marry. Western men marrying quality fsu women is part of the solution, not the problem.


The poster to whom you were responding didn't use all sorts of stereotypes.  Most rich men probably aren't looking on dating sites for a woman.  The overwhelming majority of middle aged WM have been married.


I was not, however, responding to her post.  I was responding to one line in your post.


I think you overplay the role of the Orthodox Church.  In the USSR, people didn't go to church.  Most people there could not tel you the names of the saints, their roles, or the very fundamental basics of Orthodoxy.  Over seven decades of Bolshevism wiped that out.


Are men from another culture the solution?  No.  The solution is for those countries to build their societies so that people want to stay there, marry, and have families.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Boethius

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Re: Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2018, 05:15:52 PM »
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/amsterdam-red-light-district-failing-prostitution-sex-work-decriminalisation-doesnt-work-holland-a8206511.html


The same link was posted above.


krimster, long ago, when I was a young associate working at a big law firm, I did work for one of the partner's biggest clients.  He was a nice enough guy - jovial, easy to work for, very business minded.  A few months after I'd successfully completed a big file for him, our firm had a huge client reception.  He came and had a bit too much to drink.  Fortunately, he was not a mean drunk, he was even more jovial when drunk.  But, in talking to me, he started putting his hands on me.  It wasn't anything I couldn't handle, but, given the relationship, I couldn't just tell him to get his greasy paws off me.  I had to smile, listen to his stupid drunken stories, and try to extricate myself as quickly and diplomatically as possible, with zero effect on his ego.  I could tell you dozens of stories like this from women I worked with.  Do you think a prostitute's story is really very different?   The only difference in her case is, if she is rude, or shows contempt, or a lack of enjoyment, she could leave badly beaten or, in the worst case scenario, dead. 


 
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Online krimster2

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Re: Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2018, 05:55:21 PM »
“Are there women who willingly become legal and illegal prostitutes? Yes. Is it likely that you would know the difference? Probably not. If these women don't perform they're beaten or worse. They're hooked on drugs. They can't leave their employers. “

jesus, where do you get this from?
not know the difference?  really?
one Ukrainian working girl I met in Amsterdam was going to college by day to get a degree in economics, while working as a stripper/hostess at night
we had a great conversation about some of Milton Friedman’s books
she knew what she was talking about and wasn’t faking her background
she spoke excellent English and German and was learning Dutch
she could quit her job any time she wanted to
no one is beaten or coerced except by their desire to make money
she makes in a bad night what it would take her 2 months of hard work to earn in Ukraine
so she chooses to earn money this way
and doesn’t care what the “Lady’s Home Journal has to say” about it
but of course you guys know nothing about them or me
and just give us your old stuffy sermon filled with nothing but negative stereotypes
based on all the sunday school lessons you internalized
and is nothing but 100% of your own bias

you MAY disagree with what THEY told me
and to me, it doesn’t matter even one little tiny bit if you do...
I think they are able to describe their situation a lot better than you are able to
and you have absolutely not even the slightest clue about them
how they live, do they have boyfriends, do they send money to their parents
how they handle money, where they’ve traveled and all the other things I talked about with them
despite claiming you know all about it...you don’t...
what you’re an expert on is the dominant conformist view of your own repressed sexuality
that’s been around for centuries
ok...

BO, every man or woman who works a job has to put up with some kind of BS
someone put their hands on you?
try being a coal miner
try being a police officer
try picking fruits and vegetables 8 hours a day
or any of 100 other low paying jobs that suck and do it day after day year after year
and see how it compares to someone putting their hands on you
 


Offline DaveNY

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Re: Sex Tourism and Prostituiton
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2018, 06:07:47 PM »
“Are there women who willingly become legal and illegal prostitutes? Yes. Is it likely that you would know the difference? Probably not. If these women don't perform they're beaten or worse. They're hooked on drugs. They can't leave their employers. “

jesus, where do you get this from?
not know the difference?  really?
one Ukrainian working girl I met in Amsterdam was going to college by day to get a degree in economics, while working as a stripper/hostess at night
we had a great conversation about some of Milton Friedman’s books
she knew what she was talking about and wasn’t faking her background
she spoke excellent English and German and was learning Dutch
she could quit her job any time she wanted to
no one is beaten or coerced except by their desire to make money
she makes in a bad night what it would take her 2 months of hard work to earn in Ukraine
so she chooses to earn money this way
and doesn’t care what the “Lady’s Home Journal has to say” about it
but of course you guys know nothing about them or me
and just give us your old stuffy sermon filled with nothing but negative stereotypes
based on all the sunday school lessons you internalized
and is nothing but 100% of your own bias

you MAY disagree with what THEY told me
and to me, it doesn’t matter even one little tiny bit if you do...
I think they are able to describe their situation a lot better than you are able to
and you have absolutely not even the slightest clue about them
how they live, do they have boyfriends, do they send money to their parents
how they handle money, where they’ve traveled and all the other things I talked about with them
despite claiming you know all about it...you don’t...
what you’re an expert on is the dominant conformist view of your own repressed sexuality
that’s been around for centuries
ok...

BO, every man or woman who works a job has to put up with some kind of BS
someone put their hands on you?
try being a coal miner
try being a police officer
try picking fruits and vegetables 8 hours a day
or any of 100 other low paying jobs that suck and do it day after day year after year
and see how it compares to someone putting their hands on you

krimster are you that naive? They have a line to sell you their services. They say what they think you want to hear. That's their job.

Do you really think you, the krimster, know more about women and prostitution then the tens of thousands of people and organizations that have spent decades analyzing the subject?

If so you should write articles on the subject. Tell the world how you've talked to real prostitutes and know deep down in your heart the truth and all the tens of thousands of people and organizations are wrong and you're right because you know the truth.   

 

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