Parables to describe FSU countries

[Bee Farmer]

As a happily married latent heterosexual and Libertarian I care not what one chooses to do with their sexual or private lives as long as it isn't imposed upon me.

The libertarian ideology has a very effective solution for determining the right thing to do.

Whatever actions are peaceful, voluntary, and honest should be legal.  What actions are violent, involuntary, and dishonest should be illegal.

In order for a transaction to occur, BOTH parties must voluntarily agree to participate.  Forcing EITHER side to engage in a transaction they don't want to be in would be against the law.

For example, if the baker doesn't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding, it would be against the law to force him to.  The buyers also have the right to take their business down the street, and find a baker who is willing to take his money.

When folks work on voluntary cooperation with others, it is a win-win situation for everyone.  When we try to force others into a coerced cooperation, someone is always a loser.

[LiveFromUkraine]

The libertarian ideology has a very effective solution for determining the right thing to do.

Whatever actions are peaceful, voluntary, and honest should be legal.  What actions are violent, involuntary, and dishonest should be illegal.

In order for a transaction to occur, BOTH parties must voluntarily agree to participate.  Forcing EITHER side to engage in a transaction they don't want to be in would be against the law.

For example, if the baker doesn't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding, it would be against the law to force him to.  The buyers also have the right to take their business down the street, and find a baker who is willing to take his money.

When folks work on voluntary cooperation with others, it is a win-win situation for everyone.  When we try to force others into a coerced cooperation, someone is always a loser.

It's not a win-win if a small number of people own the majority of a industry in a area and surrounding area.   According to your win-win, anyone who they don't want to serve may have to drive hours in order to find someone who deems them worthy of their service. 


It may sound great, in theory, but reality still dictates a win-win wouldn't happen in many places.  Don't get me wrong, I would prefer it that people could just walk down the street and get served by someone else.  I don't see it happening enough to warrant the removal of those anti-discrimination laws.

[Muzh]

The libertarian ideology has a very effective solution for determining the right thing to do.

Whatever actions are peaceful, voluntary, and honest should be legal.  What actions are violent, involuntary, and dishonest should be illegal.

In order for a transaction to occur, BOTH parties must voluntarily agree to participate.  Forcing EITHER side to engage in a transaction they don't want to be in would be against the law.

For example, if the baker doesn't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding, it would be against the law to force him to.  The buyers also have the right to take their business down the street, and find a baker who is willing to take his money.

When folks work on voluntary cooperation with others, it is a win-win situation for everyone.  When we try to force others into a coerced cooperation, someone is always a loser.

Oh, like the Jim Crows of the old south?


Because they didn't want no negroes next to them and the Federal government forced them to accept these "undesirables" as were to stay.


Right?

[Bee Farmer]

Oh, like the Jim Crows of the old south?

Who is Jim Crow?

If you are referring to Jim Crow laws, I don't think anyone with half a brain would consider Jim Crow laws to be interactions that are peaceful, voluntary, and honest.

Because they didn't want no negroes next to them and the Federal government forced them to accept these "undesirables" as were to stay.

If you don't want negroes (or whomever) from moving in next door to you, all you need to do is to buy the house next door so they can't buy it and move in next to you.  It's peaceful, voluntary, and honest.  If you don't own the legal rights to the property next door, you don't have any legal right to say who can buy it and live there.

Right?

No, that is not a word that seems out of place in your posts.

...Oh, nevermind, I don't know how to make a reply stupid enough that you can understand it Muzh.  I can explain it for you until I am blue in the face, but I can't understand it for you.

[Muzh]

Do you read what you write?


What is peaceful, voluntary and honest? People who think like you do?


What happens with those who don't think like you and don't become peaceful, and voluntary but honest?


Do you disregard them? Ship them out of Shangri-la? Bury them and hope nobody find them?


Really, what do you do with the people who don't agree with your view of the world? You tell them they are WRONG?

[AC]

The anti discrimination laws of the 60's were needed very badly and for a completely different set of reasons. Not so much the case now for the LGBT community. What is the agenda? I do not know but, something is afoot.

What is afoot is another power grab by Obama.  Anyone who has paid close attention to the "ACA" know it's a power grab and has little to really do with healthcare. 

Liberals are very clever at claiming that homosexuals will somehow be discriminated against on this issue when it's clear it's an attempt to deprive Conservative Christians of the right to Religious Liberty as enshrined in the Constitution.

As I said in my opening statement about this issue, for every 1 person who will not cater or otherwise serve at a gay "wedding" there are 20 who will.  You being one as a case in point.  You correctly state that people can vote with their feet. 

Yet another government intrusion and yet another attempt by Obama to desecrate the piece of living liberty which made this country great is extremely disappointing.  Yet it's predictable considering his inaction to save Christians around the World from horrific violence by ISIS.

What is not predictable and certainly disappointing are the lack of Christians on this forum willing to stand up for what they know is morally correct.  Ted Cruz does correctly say it's a states rights issue.  Marco Rubio has come out clearly in support of traditional marriage.  Mike Huckabee is adamant about the issue, thankfully.

[AC]

You may be in the minority here, and probably even in the rest of society, but not among the pezzonovante of the judiciary, politics, and the media.  And they usually prevail no matter what public opinion is.

No, the buck stops here, Larry.  Time for the majority of people in the USA to get some backbone and stand up for what they know is correct.  2017 will be a landslide and the US Constitution will finally be back in style.   

[AC]

Rick Perry on how important the Supreme Court will be in deciding religious liberty and other issues involving Americans in the next few years.


http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-09/over-barbecue-in-south-carolina-rick-perry-hypes-supreme-court-as-defining-2016-issue

[Muzh]

Rick Perry on how important the Supreme Court will be in deciding religious liberty and other issues involving Americans in the next few years.


http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-09/over-barbecue-in-south-carolina-rick-perry-hypes-supreme-court-as-defining-2016-issue

Yep, the fundamentalists want to build a theocracy in this country a la Iran.

[AC]

The Christians refusing service should ask themselves, WWJD?

They are not refusing service, they are refusing to give a blessing to a gay wedding.  That is the difference, and it is their discretion to choose or not to choose. 

As for "what would Jesus do" in Matthew 5:17 he states:

     ""Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." NIV.

[AC]

Yep, the fundamentalists want to build a theocracy in this country a la Iran.

You have that backwards.  The only persons wishing to make deals with Iran are Obama and his "progressives" which are essentially apologists for Muslim extremists.

Fundamental Christians want to bomb Muslims back to the 7th Century, ie the stone age.

[Boethius]

They are not refusing service, they are refusing to give a blessing to a gay wedding.  That is the difference, and it is their discretion to choose or not to choose. 

As for "what would Jesus do" in Matthew 5:17 he states:

     ""Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." NIV.

There certainly are cases of so called "Christians" refusing to provide services.  It is not about blessing a gay wedding.


Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Meaning the duality of man.  When we die, what is judged?  Our bodies?  No. 

[Boethius]

Fundamental Christians want to bomb Muslims back to the 7th Century, ie the stone age.

How very Christian of them.

[AC]

How very Christian of them.

Christians can only put up with so much blasphemy and blood letting, and then they have a duty to all of humanity to defend those who cannot defend themselves.

Christians in the Middle East have been facing a genocide, while "liberals" like you post platitudes about why the USA and the rest of the World should do nothing, all from the comfort of your home.

[AC]

There certainly are cases of so called "Christians" refusing to provide services.  It is not about blessing a gay wedding.


Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Meaning the duality of man.  When we die, what is judged?  Our bodies?  No. 

Nice try at reinterpreting scripture to fulfill your biases of what you wish it would be.


http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/6-9.htm

[msmobyone]

We are (or were) similar to the former British Empire.  We're now on our way to becoming the current UK, aka: pussified, socialist shit hole.

As I already stated elsewhere - your knowledge of the UK is risible

Could someone get this poster a warm - proper  (    ) Beer and a copy of the UK's election results ... 

CLUEBAT: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32633099

This means there'll be no socialist govt for at least another 5 years.. that will make 10 years ... 

[Muzh]

You have that backwards.  The only persons wishing to make deals with Iran are Obama and his "progressives" which are essentially apologists for Muslim extremists.

Fundamental Christians want to bomb Muslims back to the 7th Century, ie the stone age.

The scary part is that there are many "Christians" who feel the same way as Brainiac here.

And still trying to build a theocracy here.

[AC]

The scary part is that there are many "Christians" who feel the same way as Brainiac here.

And still trying to build a theocracy here.

Not so fast there.  Let's look at what is really going on in practice, and not what you are trying to imply.


excerpt

"And then came the request — “Dad, I know you haven’t been eating well here, so we need to go grocery shopping.” Dang it! This is what happens when your daughter is pursuing a Masters in Molecular/Cellular Biology. So we were off to the local Walmart Superstore just up the road. We gathered up her desired foodstuffs and headed to the checkout — and then this happened.

There was a young man doing the checkout and another Walmart employee came over and put up a sign, “No alcohol products in this lane.” So being the inquisitive fella I am, I used my additional set of eyes — glasses — to see the young checkout man’s name. Let me just say it was NOT “Steve.”

I pointed the sign out to Aubrey and her response was a simple question, how is it that this Muslim employee could refuse service to customers based on his religious beliefs, but Christians are being forced to participate in specific events contrary to their religious beliefs?


http://allenbwest.com/2015/05/sharia-law-comes-to-walmart/

[SANDRO43]

There was a young man doing the checkout and another Walmart employee came over and put up a sign, “No alcohol products in this lane.”

Why? Are Walmart checkout people supposed to SAMPLE customers' purchases ? And what about bacon and other objectionable pork products ?

[Muzh]

Why? Are Walmart checkout people supposed to SAMPLE customers' purchases ? And what about bacon and other objectionable pork products ?

Because I'll call his example BULLSHEVIK!!! (aka Demagoguery) 

[Faux Pas]

Because I'll call his example BULLSHEVIK!!! (aka Demagoguery) 

There was a few cases sometime back in the news where a Muslim did not want to complete, actually refused the purchases of alcohol and pork (separate cases). IIRC the Muslim prevailed as doing so was against her religious beliefs. Both were Walmart workers IIRC. AC actually makes a valid point. Why is it constitutional for Muslims and not Christians?

[Muzh]

There was a few cases sometime back in the news where a Muslim did not want to complete, actually refused the purchases of alcohol and pork (separate cases). IIRC the Muslim prevailed as doing so was against her religious beliefs. Both were Walmart workers IIRC. AC actually makes a valid point. Why is it constitutional for Muslims and not Christians?

I'll tell you why.

If I go to a Walmart Supercenter and some asshole decides NOT to do his/her job because of religious intolerance, that will be the day that Walmart will close because of an investigation from the Attorney General's office. I still have a direct line.

That shit don't happen here in the Socialist State of NY.

[Faux Pas]

I'll tell you why.

If I go to a Walmart Supercenter and some asshole decides NOT to do his/her job because of religious intolerance, that will be the day that Walmart will close because of an investigation from the Attorney General's office. I still have a direct line.

That shit don't happen here in the Socialist State of NY.

It happened Muzh. I ain't making the shit up but I am too lazy to look and find it. I do however remember it vividly. It happened.

[Boethius]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/05/11/allen-wests-unhinged-rant-about-sharia-law-invading-walmart-is-why-we-love-him-screenshots/

[Boethius]

Nice try at reinterpreting scripture to fulfill your biases of what you wish it would be.


http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/6-9.htm

My "interpretation" comes directly from Orthodox readings.  So take it up with 2,000 years of Orthodox interpretation of Scripture.