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Author Topic: More Bad News for Russia  (Read 1075698 times)

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Offline ML

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More Bad News for Russia
« Reply #5350 on: June 24, 2017, 07:54:27 AM »
I wrote:  "I understand the first line targets of the sanctions, but are you saying that the effect does not filter down to affect all other Russians (man on the street)?

Isn't the spending on military actions causing a drain on the Russian budget that would otherwise be spent on the public (man on the street)?

Aren't some of the sanctions making prices higher in Russia for some (many) goods and making some goods scarce or not available at all to man on the street?

Hasn't the devaluing of Ruble eliminated the ability of many Russians (man on the street) to travel like they want and buy imported items that they want?
Modify message"


ML - it is hard to tell, but as you walk the streets - of Sochi - you don't feel Russians want sanctions gone to improve their life-style..  Nor do I get the impression they wish to 'return Crimea' to improve their life.

almost certainly

If the actions of the govt - economic policy and foreign policy - ARE making goods more expensive - weaker rouble (?) the got is not being blamed, yet.

Judging by the Mercs and Range Rovers I see on the streets - NO ...

Seriously, there is more a disconnect - with man in the street possibly thinking there is a ruling class that has no interest in what they think and nothing anything one might try will change it ...

Note that you did not directly answer most of what I wrote.  I wrote of the pain that the 'man on the street was suffering due to sanctions, etc.  You replied mostly about how the Russian people don't want to give back Crimea and that they don't blame the gov't and that they don't think they can change anything, etc.

But that was not my question or focus, which was the pain.
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Offline jone

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« Reply #5351 on: June 24, 2017, 08:11:01 AM »
Funny that you mention that Boe!

"First U.S. Natural Gas Shipped to Poland     On Thursday, the first ever liquefied natural gas shipment from the United States arrived in Poland, a landmark of sorts in Europe’s continuing drive to diversify the sources of its energy import"

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/08/first-u-s-natural-gas-shipped-to-poland/

(From Poland it's just a short pipeline away from Ukraine)

Yeah, well, don't worry.  Americans have been delivering gas to Ukraine for quite awhile.  Victoria Nuland comes to mind.
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Offline AkMike

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« Reply #5352 on: June 24, 2017, 02:18:40 PM »
Define 'many' .. ?   They must be hiding

Not only in Rusia but many worldwide.   He's a major hemorrhoid in world peace despite your allegiance.

Offline msmob

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« Reply #5353 on: June 25, 2017, 12:08:27 AM »
I wrote:  "I understand the first line targets of the sanctions, but are you saying that the effect does not filter down to affect all other Russians (man on the street)?

In my option, no ... what 'filtered down' what the lack of EU produce - particularly good Cheddar ! ..'counter sanctions' ...

Isn't the spending on military actions causing a drain on the Russian budget that would otherwise be spent on the public (man on the street)?

Of COURSE, it is, but 'man in the street' isn't protesting loudly that this spending is 'wrong' / 'unnecessary'

Aren't some of the sanctions making prices higher in Russia for some (many) goods and making some goods scarce or not available at all to man on the street?

Absolutely, not ... that's more the protectionist stunt of the 'counter sanctions' - designed to give inefficient RU industries a leg up ...   Apart from tasty EU based cheeses, ( example ) I don't feel there's something I can't buy on the food front...  Dairy stuff is more expensive than the UK - which has better wages.

Hasn't the devaluing of Ruble eliminated the ability of many Russians (man on the street) to travel like they want and buy imported items that they want?

They can buy all the imported cars they want - if they have the cash / afford the REALLY high credit rates.  Sure the Rouble's fall meant the 'middle class' had to pull kids from British Private Education, but thanks to 'my' people's stupidly - voting to leave the EU - plus the unnecessary Gen Election and the govt being weaker - the British Pound is so weak, Russian Tourists can come back to London and feel sorry for us and re-enlist their kids :)

Yes, overseas tourism is down, but recovering - as the Rouble got stronger. Another reason for numbers being down is rules to stop civil servants travelling overseas... Police and Firemen - for example cannot travel to Turkey / Thailand, any more....lest they be 'rendited to the USA and spill all their secrets !' ...  An acquaintance of mine - who was the liaison officer with the US on provisioning Tomahawks on UK subs, etc., was able to go take a touring holiday in Russia this year - he has been retired some time - and he made it back in one piece without being taken to Lubiyanka. I haven't noticed this causing calls for 'revolution' within the civil service...

Note that you did not directly answer most of what I wrote.  I wrote of the pain that the 'man on the street was suffering due to sanctions, etc.


Sorry, you felt that way ... to be absolutely clear - they aren't - and the sanctions weren't aimed at them.....

The 'counter sanctions' have been more annoying to those who like good cheese ...!

You replied mostly about how the Russian people don't want to give back Crimea and that they don't blame the gov't and that they don't think they can change anything, etc.

But that was not my question or focus, which was the pain.

Once again, I don't think the 'pain' you speak of is being felt .... more a sense of stoic resignation ....

My intent was not to duck your questions, ML and this is my opinion - based on my observations, as I travel with Russia.




Offline msmob

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« Reply #5354 on: June 25, 2017, 12:24:13 AM »
Not only in Rusia but many worldwide.

Unlike you, I am in RusSia, now ..  My opinion is just that - it is MY estimation of 'mood'.. I simply don't get the feeling that the disconnect is going to change anything... 

  He's a major hemorrhoid in world peace despite your allegiance.

AKMike, having observed the accuracy some of your past cut and pastes - mercifully less of late - I can understand your lack of attention.

As someone labelled a 'Russophobe' elsewhere for my pointing out :
1/ my long distrust of corrupt leadership,
2/ woeful foreign policy - esp towards retaining Soviet like control over neighbours and
3/ 'maskirovki' - look it up - regarding 'away games' in parts of Ukraine and MH17

..one can only wonder at you analytical abilities ..

In one place, there's a wish for my right to Russia to be rescinded for daring to moan about what I see is wrong and we have the likes of you here suggesting some sort of 'allegiance' ? ;)








Offline msmob

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« Reply #5355 on: June 25, 2017, 12:38:08 AM »

Is that interview with Putin (where he referred to Ukraine) online anywhere?  I'd like to hear what he said, directly.


I searched under "Putins live question and answer session transcript June 2017"  and you'll get hits from western and Russian English versions / interpretations

I did the same in Russian:

some examples: http://seopravda.ru/samye-vazhnye-i-srochnye-novosti-rossii-i-mira/stenogramma-prjamoj-linii-s-putinym-15-06-17/

http://www.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/54790

and a video from Pervy Kanal

http://www.1tv.ru/shows/vystupleniya-prezidenta-rossii/pryamaya-liniya-2017/pryamaya-liniya-s-vladimirom-putinym-2017-chast-1

It would be most interesting to hear you viewpoints

I was especially interested in the call from Dmitry from Ukraine ....








Offline msmob

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« Reply #5356 on: June 25, 2017, 03:08:04 AM »
ML - As I walked around the stocked shelves - just now -  I thought of you ;)




 

Offline sparky114

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« Reply #5357 on: June 25, 2017, 07:52:54 AM »
 What no queues out the door
no rationing
people smiling
people going about there day to day business easily

what shock and horror  :D

Offline ML

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« Reply #5358 on: June 25, 2017, 08:26:04 AM »
ML - As I walked around the stocked shelves - just now -  I thought of you ;)

Thanks for thinking of me; and thanks for your thoughtful and detailed answers to my earlier query.

Of course I cannot deny the pictures and your descriptions of daily life that you experience.

However I cannot accept that when a currency moves from something in the 20s against the USD to something in the 50s that there is not substantial effect on the people.  It defies common sense and logic.

But we need not continue this line of discussion.  Best to you and your mate. :-)
A beautiful woman is pleasant to look at, but it is easier to live with a pleasant acting one.

Offline ML

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« Reply #5359 on: June 25, 2017, 08:38:10 AM »
ML - As I walked around the stocked shelves - just now -  I thought of you ;)


And, by the way, those legs would be illegal in 37 of our states.
A beautiful woman is pleasant to look at, but it is easier to live with a pleasant acting one.

Offline msmob

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« Reply #5360 on: June 25, 2017, 09:47:47 AM »
What no queues out the door
no rationing
people smiling
people going about there day to day business easily

what shock and horror  :D

No, those are confined to registering one's presence in Sochi, Moscow, Piter, Kazan.. :(

I expect there'd be a queue for decent Euro Cheeses ;)


Offline msmob

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« Reply #5361 on: June 25, 2017, 09:57:07 AM »


However I cannot accept that when a currency moves from something in the 20s against the USD to something in the 50s that there is not substantial effect on the people.  It defies common sense and logic.


It affected the 'middle class', mostly.  Sure there was food inflation and interest rates went up to prop up the Rouble.. This was blamed on the west rather than govt actions ...

But we need not continue this line of discussion.  Best to you and your mate. :-)

Don't worry .. I raise a glass of Russian locally brewed beer to toast your health ;)

Offline LAman

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« Reply #5362 on: June 25, 2017, 10:27:20 AM »
I understand the first line targets of the sanctions, but are you saying that the effect does not filter down to affect all other Russians (man on the street)?

Isn't the spending on military actions causing a drain on the Russian budget that would otherwise be spent on the public (man on the street)?

Aren't some of the sanctions making prices higher in Russia for some (many) goods and making some goods scarce or not available at all to man on the street?

Hasn't the devaluing of Ruble eliminated the ability of many Russians (man on the street) to travel like they want and buy imported items that they want?

ML, I agree with msmob, i've spent almost 2 months in Russia this past year and have not noticed much affect of sanctions, now there are probably less goods available as before sanctions but you would be surprised at what is brought illegally!!)) I go to parks and families are together, restaurants, malls, airports are full of people. I just don't see any depressed people. Are they hiding their true thoughts? Maybe the society/culture over the years has hardened the people to not be so much affected by the outside world. I have been to the main cities of St Piter, Moscow, Kazan, along with smaller cities of Cheboksary and Yoshkar-Ola.
Life isn't tied with a bow, but it's still a gift

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #5363 on: June 25, 2017, 11:28:25 AM »
Thanks for thinking of me; and thanks for your thoughtful and detailed answers to my earlier query.

Of course I cannot deny the pictures and your descriptions of daily life that you experience.

However I cannot accept that when a currency moves from something in the 20s against the USD to something in the 50s that there is not substantial effect on the people.  It defies common sense and logic.

But we need not continue this line of discussion.  Best to you and your mate. :-)

It will only matter to the extent a country imports.  If Russians are purchasing Russian produced food products, fertilized with local potash, and Russian made clothing, made with Egyptian cotton procured on an arms trade, it won't affect them as much as in countries with large trade relationships.

In Canada, I notice no difference in prices from when our dollar traded in the sixty cent range, to when it was at par, to now, when it is in the mid seventy cent range.  Most of our food is imported from California, some from Mexico.  No difference in food prices, or clothing.  The only time I noticed a difference was when I bought clothing online (nordstrom/Neiman Marcus) or traveled to the US.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #5364 on: June 25, 2017, 11:58:13 AM »
I searched under "Putins live question and answer session transcript June 2017"  and you'll get hits from western and Russian English versions / interpretations

I did the same in Russian:

some examples: http://seopravda.ru/samye-vazhnye-i-srochnye-novosti-rossii-i-mira/stenogramma-prjamoj-linii-s-putinym-15-06-17/

http://www.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/54790

and a video from Pervy Kanal

http://www.1tv.ru/shows/vystupleniya-prezidenta-rossii/pryamaya-liniya-2017/pryamaya-liniya-s-vladimirom-putinym-2017-chast-1

It would be most interesting to hear you viewpoints

I was especially interested in the call from Dmitry from Ukraine ....


Thanks, moby.  Those are interviews primarily on domestic issues.


I searched google.ru, but I'll keep trying.


Meanwhile, not on topic, but this was an interesting article on why the CIA should never trust the Russians -


http://www.thedailybeast.com/why-cia-vets-say-putin-hates-americaand-why-president-trump-cant-trust-him

After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline msmob

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« Reply #5365 on: June 25, 2017, 12:19:27 PM »

Thanks, moby.  Those are interviews primarily on domestic issues.


A pleasure, but is the 'territory currently known as Ukraine'' ( VVP's words )  - a 'domestic' issue ? ;)

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #5366 on: June 25, 2017, 03:53:11 PM »
I didn't view it as any sort of threat.  He has a very Soviet understanding of history, particularly linguistic history, but on the latter point, so does the better half, and even objective Russian (1897) census material proving them wrong won't dissuade them.


Putin is not wrong about the Ukrainian nationalists.  Sort of ironic he doesn't see that in his own country, where the situation is the same, perhaps even worse.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline msmob

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« Reply #5367 on: June 25, 2017, 09:43:38 PM »
Boethius,

A good point re nationalists / patriots'. But I'm surprised you didn't find it 'threatening' to the integrity of Ukraine. Th questions allowed through are clearly calculated to allow VVP to make a point and Dmitry's question was a clear - we don't see Ukraine surviving in it's current format.

Watching Pervy kanal last night - one id fed a diet of VVP's responses from the Q and A session, his interview with Oliver Stone and how' badly' folks live in Kharkiv/ ov  - which is undoubtedly the rich prize VVP wants to destabilise



Offline Boethius

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« Reply #5368 on: June 25, 2017, 09:48:52 PM »
Ukraine can't survive in its current state, where anything of value is stolen by the powerful and there is no rule of law.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline msmob

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« Reply #5369 on: June 25, 2017, 10:02:35 PM »
So, will UA disappear off the map ?!

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #5370 on: June 25, 2017, 10:21:59 PM »
I truly hope not.  But it may just become a country mired in corruption, something like Haiti.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline AkMike

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« Reply #5371 on: June 28, 2017, 09:49:09 AM »
Gee wiz whodd'a thunk it...   :rolleyes:     (use your translator)

Kremlin telling Russians to face falling living standards for years.


http://www.profile.ru/pryamayarech/item/118101-luchshe-uzhe-ne-budet


Offline msmob

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« Reply #5372 on: June 28, 2017, 12:41:36 PM »
Gee wiz whodd'a thunk it...   :rolleyes:     (use your translator)

Kremlin telling Russians to face falling living standards for years.


http://www.profile.ru/pryamayarech/item/118101-luchshe-uzhe-ne-budet

1/ The Kremlin is NOT stating what you claim ...  even if the Rosstat figures suggest they should be

2/ The website from which  this article you quote from is 100, 000 times less read than Pervy Kanal's site....   Even if it is bad news - it isn't likely to be read..

Source: zonwhois.com/www/profil.ru.html


Offline AkMike

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« Reply #5373 on: June 28, 2017, 01:08:05 PM »
You don't seem to comprehend .. I didn't state it.. That article did.

 It's not my job to verify Russian sources. Maybe you should apply as a editor and fact check them instead of 'biatching' about it.

Offline msmob

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« Reply #5374 on: June 28, 2017, 09:52:11 PM »



[/quote]
You don't seem to comprehend .. I didn't state it.. That article did.

 It's not my job to verify Russian sources. Maybe you should apply as a editor and fact check them instead of 'biatching' about it.

Hmm, I guessing that you posted this to 'prove' a point...?


Kremlin telling Russians to face falling living standards for years.

I just showed you that :

The Kremlin aren't 'telling' it's citizens any such thing...

As ever, when 'busted' - you 'distance' yourself from the article you posted ..






 

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