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Author Topic: Ukrainian rocket boosters aide North Korea's nuke program.  (Read 11715 times)

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Offline calmissile

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Re: Ukrainian rocket boosters aide North Korea's nuke program.
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2017, 12:34:59 AM »
OK Billy, I concede.  Your the rocket scientist expert.  :)

I only spent about 55 years as an Aerospace Engineer in the ICBM world.  That included 25 years at Vandenberg AFB launching a couple hundred missiles, instrumenting them, and evaluating the performance of them.

For the casual observers, here are a couple links that might be interesting reading.  The last link is about SpaceX.  Note that the article is from Jan 2012.  They don't use Russian engines.  Anyone following the news of this company over the past few years has to be proud that it is a US company.  They are competitors to the Boeing/Lockheed boosters using Russian engines.

SpaceX has delivered cargo flight to the ISS.  In addition, as far as I know they are the only company that has successfully reused the boosters.  In the last year they have demonstrated that the boosters with their onboard guidance system can guide the booster back to the launch pad and land upright with its own engines.  Truly a remarkable achievement.  It is also a privately held company that gets things done rather than depend on defense contracts with all the red tape that goes along with it.

Happy reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocketdyne_F-1

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/history/features/f1_engine.html

http://www.airspacemag.com/space/is-spacex-changing-the-rocket-equation-132285884/?page=1



Doug (Calmissile)

Offline BillyB

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Re: Ukrainian rocket boosters aide North Korea's nuke program.
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2017, 07:59:05 AM »
OK Billy, I concede.  Your the rocket scientist expert.  :)

I only spent about 55 years as an Aerospace Engineer in the ICBM world.  That included 25 years at Vandenberg AFB launching a couple hundred missiles, instrumenting them, and evaluating the performance of them.



I'm not questioning your ability in your role as a rocket scientist. I'm questioning the abilities of America's rocket science when it comes to boosters. The fact is Russia is better at building boosters. Their scientists are better at it. Cost is not the issue in replacing the boosters they provide to us. America simply doesn't manufacture an adequate booster. The  2016 articles I provided mention Congress had to reverse sanctions pertaining to these boosters knowing it's going to put money into Putin's pocket.

One of your links said the F-1 booster that powered the Saturn rocket is the most powerful on earth and NASA is going to use it in some of their current projects. That is a 1950's designed booster. Goes to show you we haven't come a long way in 60 years. That booster is too big for the thrust it puts out to use on today's rockets. Russia makes smaller boosters that has a high thrust to size ratio. If Russia made a booster the size of the F-1, I'd bet money it would have more thrust than the F-1.


For the casual observers, here are a couple links that might be interesting reading.  The last link is about SpaceX.  Note that the article is from Jan 2012.  They don't use Russian engines.  Anyone following the news of this company over the past few years has to be proud that it is a US company.  They are competitors to the Boeing/Lockheed boosters using Russian engines.



The article I supplied said SpaceX is the leading candidate to replace the Russian boosters but their boosters are years away from being adequate enough to do so. It is what it is. I don't like putting money into Putin's pocket and I'm all for buying American but in this case, we can't buy American because we're not good enough when it comes to building boosters.
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Offline JayH

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Re: Ukrainian rocket boosters aide North Korea's nuke program.
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2017, 07:32:30 PM »
Anyone who knows anything real here is refuting claims .



Ukraine’s rocket engine producer: “irresponsible journalism” of NYT can lead to fatal consequence
s

Ukraine’s main rocket engine builder, the Yuzhnoye construction bureau, has responded with a refutation to the New York Times article accusing Ukraine of leaking ballistic rocket technology to North Korea. In it, they stress that no journalists had contacted them prior to the publication and that the materials are false, uninformed, and appear to be crafted to support a geopolitical agenda. What follows is the statement of Yuzhnoye. It confirms many of the conclusions of our article: “Unprofessional slander.” Ukrainian rocket experts slam NYT accusations of North Korean leak


http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/08/18/ukraines-rocket-engine-producer-seriously-concerned-over-irresponsible-journalism-of-nyt/
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 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline BillyB

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Re: Ukrainian rocket boosters aide North Korea's nuke program.
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2017, 08:32:34 PM »

Head of Ukrainian Space Agency said documents exist that state the engines N Korea uses were made in Ukraine.

The company that made them is obviously upset whether they are guilty or not but they are not being accurate themselves when they say NY Times is wrong for accusing them. NY Times said the booster engines could've come from Ukraine or Russia, maybe stolen and sold through the black market, maybe the manufacturer is involved, or maybe governments are involved. They didn't point fingers at any one entity. But they are right that North Korea could've gotten the boosters from any one of those parties.

If they really are innocent, they should stop defending themselves and start cooperating by turning over all their documentation to show America they are innocent which would help America focus on who did give the boosters to North Korea.
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Offline msmob

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Re: Ukrainian rocket boosters aide North Korea's nuke program.
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2017, 09:48:45 PM »
Head of Ukrainian Space Agency said documents exist that state the engines N Korea uses were made in Ukraine.



source ? ...

Offline BillyB

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Re: Ukrainian rocket boosters aide North Korea's nuke program.
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2017, 10:44:30 PM »

Post #17 I submitted a youtube video of his press conference. Subtitles in English.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline JayH

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Re: Ukrainian rocket boosters aide North Korea's nuke program.
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2017, 12:03:28 AM »
source ? ...

BB imagination on a bad day !
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline BillyB

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Re: Ukrainian rocket boosters aide North Korea's nuke program.
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2017, 01:35:20 AM »
Jay, I don't know if you watched the video of the press conference and imagined it had nothing important in there or didn't watch the video and imagined it had nothing important in there but I'll quote a couple people in there.

Ukrainian Space Agency Spokeswoman said " Ukraine's space agency says engines used for North Korean missiles were made for Russian use"

Head of Space Agency then confirmed those missiles were made in Ukraine at the factory in questioned before 2001.


I understand the owner of the factory is panicking and giving out a lot of interviews to journalists to protect his company and trying to get people to be angry at the NY Times. It would be stupid for him to say he had 30 rocket boosters in storage and they got stolen overnight and ended up in North Korea. If he had a theft that large, it would be reported and documented by authorities. The boosters weren't stolen because a theft report didn't happen. America a big customer of his is going to pressure him for his records. If he doesn't cooperate, he will lose America and some allies as customers. If he cooperates and makes Russia look bad, he will lose even a bigger customer and it's allies. He's basically stuck between a rock and a hard place.


Each rocket booster is of unique design and there are custom machining tools and molds to make those custom parts. Where are those tools and molds? Head of Space Agency said the last booster of that model was created before 2001. If those tools been sitting in storage for over 17 years, there'd be dust, discoloration, and possible corrosion built up. If they were used last year, the tools would show recent use. The plant owner better hope it was Russia that sold their remaining stockpile that they bought from him to North Korea. If that is the case, then Russia better have a damn good reason how dozens of rocket boosters went missing out of their stockpile or get spanked with sanctions.....again. How North Korea got the fuel is another issue that needs to be solved. Ukraine doesn't make the fuel that powers the booster. It's a controlled fuel that Russia and China uses.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 01:37:53 AM by BillyB »
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline msmob

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Re: Ukrainian rocket boosters aide North Korea's nuke program.
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2017, 06:21:41 AM »
Post #17 I submitted a youtube video of his press conference. Subtitles in English.

Thank you, BillyB

NOW, I understand ....  Ukraine is saying " we sent those parts to Russia, years ago" ..

Offline BillyB

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Re: Ukrainian rocket boosters aide North Korea's nuke program.
« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2017, 10:07:46 AM »
Thank you, BillyB

NOW, I understand ....  Ukraine is saying " we sent those parts to Russia, years ago" ..


Maybe Russia can provide documentation of the boosters they bought were all used up? They had hard economic times in the late 90's so they may have parked their Space Program during that time and had lot of parts laying around.


I'm sure there is going to be an investigation on if there were additional boosters built after the ones Russia bought. Except for the noise and no offer to help from the plant owner, things have gone quiet but I'm sure this is priority #1 for American authorities to solve. If they want to slow down North Korean's nuke program, they need to stop the supply chain.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline JayH

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Russia has made North Korea’s rocket program possible
« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2017, 05:08:01 PM »
This was always the most likely explanation of the accelerated program in Nth Korea.
In all this discussion very little seems to have been written of this as a possibility.
Putins intent is to cause as much disruption in the world-- and especially to the US . How hard must he be laughing at the ridiculous DJT verbal gymnastics.
The time is long overdue for the west in general to recognise the threat Russia now represents to the civilised world.


Russia has made North Korea’s rocket program possible

In two articles published online this week, Moscow analyst Aleksandr Nemets details the evidence many have assembled showing that Moscow is heavily involved in both the rocket program of North Korea and Pyongyang’s “aggressive plans” to use it against other countries (see “Зато они ‘делают’ ракеты” and “Системный подход“).

It is absolutely essential, he says, that South Korea, Japan and the United States understand that everything that is now brewing in the region is what Moscow or more precisely Putin wants” and not some rogue action by Kim Jong Un as many imagine.

In the first of these articles, Nemets traces the history of Russian deliveries of missiles to North Korea in recent decades and the ways in which, apparently with some Russian assistance, Pyongyang has modified them, and then offers three main conclusions:

http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/09/09/moscow-analyst-russia-has-made-north-koreas-rocket-program-possible-euromaidan-press/
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 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline BillyB

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Re: Ukrainian rocket boosters aide North Korea's nuke program.
« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2017, 08:32:35 PM »

Russia helping N Korea get a delivery system for their nukes is helping their economy. S Korea's President Moon likes dialogue and Russia say's dialogue is the way to get things done. S Korea is going to buy Russia's natural gas to get Putin's cooperation. Both N Korea and S Korea are buying Russian goods to gain Putin's favor.


http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/12/russias-putin-says-ready-to-help-resolve-north-korea-nuclear-issue-south-korea.html
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline JayH

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Russia made North Korea’s rocket program possible
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2017, 05:00:50 PM »
It is amazing how little media attention has been given to the Russian involvement-- not just in promoting false information-- but in the North Korean missile and nuclear programs.
It is within this context that Ukraine has been accused of illegally supplying missile engines to North Korea. Unfortunately, Michael Elleman’s report, which was the basis of the New York Times article, appears to be another example of Moscow’s "hybrid" attack on Western democracies. His article reveals elements of a comprehensive, special intelligence operation by the Russian special services.


Pyongyang’s Ambitions Have Nothing to Do with Kyiv and Everything to Do with Moscow

In this example, Russia is blowing up a conceived “missile scandal” to serve its own goals: to cover its own missile technologies transfer to North Korea while shifting the international community’s attention to Ukraine; disturbing the development of a new qualitative level of US-Ukraine relations; disrupting the potential transfer of US lethal weapons to Ukraine; downshifting international support to Ukraine; and promoting the lifting of sanctions against it.

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/pyongyang-s-ambitions-have-nothing-to-do-with-kyiv-and-everything-to-do-with-moscow
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 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Russians give North Korea technical help in building nuclear weapons
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2017, 04:21:20 PM »
This was always the most likely scenario -- and the attempts to divert attention to Ukraine  the work of the Kremlin's troll factory.
When will America wake up and realise the huge danger Russia is presenting to the US & the world at large.
It is not only North Korea heading down a doomsday path but Putin & Russia itself -- in simple terms-- if they can't have it they are going top make sure no one else can either !


The Russians may have given North Korea technical help in building nuclear weapons.


Russian support for Pyongyang has long included propping up its nuclear program with technical cooperation, including letting North Korean nuclear scientists work at Russian nuclear sites and its scientific academies as recently as 2015. Now Moscow may be giving Kim’s missile program a more substantial boost.

Russian support for Pyongyang has long included propping up its nuclear program with technical cooperation, including letting North Korean nuclear scientists work at Russian nuclear sites.
When Pyongyang began the latest battery of tests of missiles last May, Russia launched a new ferry service from the Russian port city of Vladivostok to the North Korean port of Rajin — again, a strange thing to do when the rest of the world was shutting down contact with the Hermit Kingdom.
 The ferry Mon Gyong Bong is billed as a cargo and passenger venture and is operated by a Russian-owned company based in North Korea.

All the same, Rajin is only twelve hours drive from Kusong, the site of North Korea’s IRBM on May 14. On July 4, barely a month after the ferry began service, North Korea launched the second of its unexpectedly sophisticated missile launches. In fact, the more trips the Mon Gyong Bong made, the faster North Korea’s nuclear-missile program grew.




 http://www.nationalreview.com/article/451476/th-korea-vladimir-putin-behind-missile-threat
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 05:56:13 PM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
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 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Russians give North Korea technical help in building nuclear weapons
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2017, 06:00:18 PM »
More on how unlikely Ukraine was/is involved.


North Korean Missile Engines: Not from Ukraine

It is not our intention to point to those responsible for technology transfers to North Korea, given the paucity of available information about its nuclear program, but to remind that Elleman’s attribution of North Korea’s testing success to a recent transfer of RD-250 LPEs from Ukraine to North Korea is far less plausible than it may appear on the report’s first reading.

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/north-korean-missile-engines-not-from-ukraine
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

 

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