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Author Topic: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.  (Read 1205 times)

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Offline Strider

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In the wake of all of the Harvey Weinstein scandal in the U.S., former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu,  has accused another former Soviet gymnast, Vitaly Scherbo, of rape 27 years ago in Stuttgart, Germany.  She was 15 at the time, and the Soviet Union was collapsing:
http://nypost.com/2017/10/17/olympic-champion-gymnast-speaks-out-on-monster-rapist/
Scherbo has yet to respond, but others involved and Scherbo's mother have spoken out against the allegation:
http://eng.gymnovosti.com/tatiana-gutsus-teammates-and-scherbos-mother-commented-on-the-rape-allegations/

Both Scherbo and Gutsu now live and coach in the U.S.  Scherbo can sue for libel, but the result would likely depend if he is now considered a "public figure".  If so, he would need to prove that Gutsu's claim is false, AND she made it with "actual malice".  (If she is found to be mistaken due to emotional or psychological problems he would lose.)  If he is not a "public figure", then Gutsu would need to prove that she was raped in Germany 27 years ago.

Old rape/sexual assault claims are difficult to prove, but when scores of women come out of the woodwork with a similar story, like with Bill Cosby or Harvey Weinstein, they are believed.  Women also have been known to make up such stories to get attention.  The use of "sexual harassment" by women in North America in the work place as a weapon has gotten completely out of hand.   Women also use harassment charges against men whom they have dated, slept with, etc. in ways unimaginable in most other countries.   Since this allegation is quite serious, rape, and occurred while she was still a teen, and in the context of the Soviet Olympic team, and as the Soviet Union itself was in collapse, I could understand why she never filed a police report in Germany or at home.

I am curious how this is playing out in the former Soviet states' media.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 01:45:44 AM by Strider »

Offline GQBlues

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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2017, 03:03:53 PM »
The Democrats hopeful pairing for 2020!

Harvey Weinstein - Bill Cosby 2020!

With Hillary 3.2 - Senator Robert Menendez 2020 as viable stand-in! (Anthony Weiner will have to wait and see if Slick Willy is interested in getting 'worked' in the Oval office again so they can pair-up)

 
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 03:10:32 PM by GQBlues »
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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2017, 04:53:29 PM »
Highlights the big problem lurking with all these sexual abuse/harassment/assault & rape allegations that they may take on a life off their own like the purges in Soviet times. Everyone starts at it and it becomes a tool by the unscrupulous to gain promotion, seek revenge, satisfy jealousy, or encourage those with mental health problems to throw around accusations, etc. If this state of throwing around allegations really takes of things could get real unpleasant out there. I mean look how many actresses got on board over the Harvey Weinstein situation seems like half the world's actresses are coming out that he fondled them. I can't imagine that he really fondled that many, some quite possibly but seems like to me there are some callous actresses out for free publicity and the wish to stick the knife in.

I'm sorry but if they did not come forward within a few years or have substantial evidence to prove it happened then they should just be told they have left it too long, exception of course in the case of child sex abuse cases. I mean who's to say it was not consentual at the time or the actress thought she would not get fame and fortune and had to do it but that was not the case, etc. On the case of this gymnast she was technically a kid but only just. I kind of wonder if it was a lot of messing around and only now 27 years later she is regretting it & jealous that the guy is doing better than her. It seems to me the more high profile the person (at least at the moment) the more the likelihood that someone comes forward with aleegations. As I have heard it in much of the FSU if you're and ordinary Joe and a woman comes forward with an allegation the Police out there usually have little time for it.

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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2017, 08:02:01 PM »
Old rape/sexual assault claims are difficult to prove, but when scores of women come out of the woodwork with a similar story, like with Bill Cosby or Harvey Weinstein, they are believed.  Women also have been known to make up such stories to get attention.  The use of "sexual harassment" by women in North America in the work place as a weapon has gotten completely out of hand.   

You've never been a woman.  Were you followed home by men in cars once you hit puberty?  Catcalled on the street by men twice your size?  Propositioned while waiting for a friend?  Groped on subways/buses/the street?  These are things every woman has put up with at some time in her life. 

When more than one woman comes out with almost an identical story, and multiple women have the same story, yes, it has occurred.  The only issue is whether or not some of the encounters were consensual.  In Bill Cosby's case, he drugged the women, so there was no consent.  Harvey Weinstein had his reputation for at least a decade.  Even I'd read stories, though the depth of his depravity is astounding.

Gymnastics is known for its abuse of girls, in many respects.  So, I don't doubt the story.
"Without religion there is no morality, and without morality there is no law." - Lord Denning

Offline Boethius

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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2017, 08:04:45 PM »
Highlights the big problem lurking with all these sexual abuse/harassment/assault & rape allegations that they may take on a life off their own like the purges in Soviet times. Everyone starts at it and it becomes a tool by the unscrupulous to gain promotion, seek revenge, satisfy jealousy, or encourage those with mental health problems to throw around accusations, etc. If this state of throwing around allegations really takes of things could get real unpleasant out there. I mean look how many actresses got on board over the Harvey Weinstein situation seems like half the world's actresses are coming out that he fondled them. I can't imagine that he really fondled that many, some quite possibly but seems like to me there are some callous actresses out for free publicity and the wish to stick the knife in.

I'm sorry but if they did not come forward within a few years or have substantial evidence to prove it happened then they should just be told they have left it too long, exception of course in the case of child sex abuse cases. I mean who's to say it was not consentual at the time or the actress thought she would not get fame and fortune and had to do it but that was not the case, etc. On the case of this gymnast she was technically a kid but only just. I kind of wonder if it was a lot of messing around and only now 27 years later she is regretting it & jealous that the guy is doing better than her. It seems to me the more high profile the person (at least at the moment) the more the likelihood that someone comes forward with aleegations. As I have heard it in much of the FSU if you're and ordinary Joe and a woman comes forward with an allegation the Police out there usually have little time for it.


Women don't come forward because they think "it's only me".  Plus many of these things are so commonplace, most women just shrug them off.
"Without religion there is no morality, and without morality there is no law." - Lord Denning

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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2017, 11:09:51 PM »
Gymnastics is known for its abuse of girls, in many respects.  So, I don't doubt the story.

So one girl just sat and watched while the other was raped ::) and thought 'hey rather her ass than mine!'

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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2017, 04:38:53 AM »
Trench, Human nature is a strange thing..

Yesterday, I watched a guy lash out at a driver who had failed to stop at a Pedestrian crossing and physically attacked the driver and their car

No-one (including me) did anything - at first - I was with my elderly mother - and when I finally 'woke-up'  - made sure she was sat down in customer services and went back out and started running towards the bloke, followed by store security, screaming, " that's enough", he ran to HIS car and locked himself in  :D  The driver of the first car drove off.. as did driver #2 ..

Everyone else was transfixed - then when the drama was over melted away

When the Nazi's were lining up Jews - you might ask, "Why didn't they run/ try to overcome their escorts"? ..

We are lucky we aren't ladies ..  when you father daughters, you really 'get it'







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Offline Boethius

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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2017, 09:19:50 AM »
So one girl just sat and watched while the other was raped ::) and thought 'hey rather her ass than mine!'


That has occurred in the past.


This gymnast had nothing to gain from disclosing this story. 
"Without religion there is no morality, and without morality there is no law." - Lord Denning

Offline Strider

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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2017, 09:58:04 AM »
I am sure that more details will come out.  Perhaps Tatiana Gutsu will give an interview with more details of the proof that she has alluded to having.  Perhaps she needed to see a doctor? 

The response so far, is that Sherbo has said nothing to deny the accusation.  He appears to be hiding behind his mother and probably "lawyering up" as we say.  I am sure that he will get advised on U.S. libel law vs. the First Amendment rights and that he is probably a "public figure", and thus has a difficult case.  From the responses, the roommate denies that anything happened in the room, but possibly the alleged attack occurred somewhere else.  However, she does  confirm that Sherbo was in their room, and won't deny that there was some physical kissing or touching.  While in America a male gymnast might be suspected of being gay, I suspect that a Soviet male gymnast would have been more like an American male football player, i.e., full of entitlement and quite sexually aggressive.  I can say that I would not want any young 15 year old girl in my family unsupervised around a 19 year old male jock. 

The response from the former coach, confirms that she was a modest girl, but claims that the Soviet athletes were too tired from their training for sex.  (The roommate said the same thing.)  This is pure Soviet style denial and BS and suggests some failure on her part.  Perhaps there was some pressure on Gutsu to have a relationship with Scherbo for PR purposes?  It would have made such a good story for Soviet TV, and a typical Soviet lie.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 11:54:11 AM by Strider »

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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2017, 10:21:26 AM »

That has occurred in the past.


This gymnast had nothing to gain from disclosing this story.

Oh yeah?  I'd never heard of her name before the story came out.
Experience keeps a dear school but fools will learn at no other - Benjamin Franklin

Offline GQBlues

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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2017, 10:31:35 AM »
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2016/12/15/20-year-toll-368-gymnasts-allege-sexual-exploitation/95198724/

It happens to grown women, even more so to minors...gymnastics can be, and apparently is, a haven for these predatory morons. Doctors, coaches, etc...
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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2017, 11:50:34 AM »
I've no doubt a lot of it happens in female gymnastics but they don't help themselves by prancing around in skimpy leotards, perhaps a set of trackies would be more appropriate.

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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2017, 03:05:06 PM »
Here is a rather unflattering quote from Scherbo from 2010:
"I wont be modest, Ive seen plenty of women in my life. Playboy, in general. And Im used to getting what I want from women. And you understand what I wanted."
Even his mother agreed, "hes used to getting everything he wants.
http://deadspin.com/in-2010-male-gymnast-accused-of-rape-said-im-used-to-1819719545

This is certainly a guy with a sense of entitlement.  Gutsu hasn't yet given more details, but by naming the other two gymnasts, the picture I am getting is that they had something going on together and were en flagrante when the alleged assault occurred.  For those from the West who are more modest, understand that housing was always a problem with the Communist bloc, and people there had lower ideas about privacy.

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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2017, 07:02:23 PM »
Oh yeah?  I'd never heard of her name before the story came out.


And how does her name being made public help her?
"Without religion there is no morality, and without morality there is no law." - Lord Denning

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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2017, 07:51:59 PM »
Don't care what you say, just spell my name right .....
Experience keeps a dear school but fools will learn at no other - Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2017, 08:11:12 PM »
Oh yeah?  I'd never heard of her name before the story came out.

Don't care what you say, just spell my name right .....

Seems that Joan doesn't think that this woman should be talking about what the accused rapist did to her when she was 15.  He'd rather see it whitewashed.  I don't know why he would defend the guy and attempt to shame the female accuser.  Has the accuser even denied it yet? 

Fathertime! 

Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Jumper

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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2017, 08:12:35 PM »
I've no doubt a lot of it happens in female gymnastics but they don't help themselves by prancing around in skimpy leotards, perhaps a set of trackies would be more appropriate.

That's quite the odd mindset TC,
For a man who.prefers their romantic interests to.always wear a short skirt.

Do you feel.the same about ice skating competitors?
Ballerinas?

Only sweat pants to be unprovocative right?

I'm quite sure many women would agree if the pesky
Expectations of the competition judges, gallery, tv  audience etc did not exist.

That is some bizarre thinking, you should probably dwell on where you are coming from with that a bit.

Before replying,  keep in mind many of us have daughters, nieces, etc they may be involved in such sports at various levels.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 08:16:01 PM by Jumper »
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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2017, 10:42:29 PM »
I've no doubt a lot of it happens in female gymnastics but they don't help themselves by prancing around in skimpy leotards, perhaps a set of trackies would be more appropriate.

Ah Trenchie!,

Nothing like trying to troll, for effect?....

The misogynist in your shines through...


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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2017, 07:00:43 AM »
So from I can see in the Russian language media online, Tatiana Toropova never made it to a major Soviet gymnastic team, and never competed in the World Championships or Olympics.  Presently, she coaches gymnastics for the national team of that well known gymnastic dynasty, Kyrgyzstan:
http://sputnik.by/radio/20171019/1031454286/gde-shcerbo-gucu-podaet-v-sud-toropova-i-shHaripov-ne-pri-delah.html
Thus, it looks like she never made it out of CIS, and won't rock the boat and damage her employment prospects there.  They all trained too hard to even think about sex.  How ridiculous is that idea?

Offline Boethius

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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2017, 11:47:25 AM »
For those from the West who are more modest, understand that housing was always a problem with the Communist bloc, and people there had lower ideas about privacy.


They didn't have sex in front of others, if they were normal.



"Without religion there is no morality, and without morality there is no law." - Lord Denning

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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2017, 01:49:16 PM »
Ah Trenchie!,

Nothing like trying to troll, for effect?....

The misogynist in your shines through...

Not at all Mobe, imagine if a guy started running around in a skimpy leotard like rhe girls do, with his c*ck & rear for all to see. It would be branded obscene. This guy no doubt saw it as reward for all the hours spent in the gym. The girl I think probably wanted the status that came with him but thought she could just stop at kissing. The roommate probably thought it none of her business what others got up to & focus on her gymnastis, she said as much. There may have been some jealousy on her part that she was not as good as gutsu however hard she trained and thought it might eliminate the competition who knows. What I do think is that perhaps this exemplifies FSU mentality to this day that you look out primarily for number one and if a way to get on is envisaged however dubious then it is all fair game.

I remember back to the Barcelona Olympics, I was around 14 at the time so near her age. I thought the Unified gymnastics team hot as all the girld were slim and kind of hot looking despite a kind of unusually slim build for their age, good genetic breeding apparen't there I think and evident why the FSU countries frequently do so well at gymnastics I think.

Offline Jumper

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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2017, 02:26:08 PM »
So TC, when your future short skirted wife is groped or worse, how will you reconcile that agaisnt your statements in this thread.

I generally try to give you the benefitof the doubt,
But on this one you have a double standard that defies any logic ,
And come up with a *what if*
storyline to dismiss a rape allegation.

I have no idea what occured back then, nor does anyone else that wasn't there ,
But her story is certainly plausible in fact quite likely to have occured.
Her leotards would have so little to do with it in any case that it's ridiculous.



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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2017, 03:20:51 PM »
Male swimmers, divers, weightlifters all wear clothing as or more revealing than gymnasts' leotards.

It's a stupid argument.
"Without religion there is no morality, and without morality there is no law." - Lord Denning

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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2017, 05:24:35 PM »
Ah Trenchie!,
.
The misogynist in your shines through...

So TC, when your future short skirted wife is groped or worse, how will you reconcile that agaisnt your statements in this thread.

Her leotards would have so little to do with it in any case that it's ridiculous.



It's a stupid argument.

I've no doubt a lot of it happens in female gymnastics but they don't help themselves by prancing around in skimpy leotards, perhaps a set of trackies would be more appropriate.

I said many months ago that Trenchcoat  was a social misfit  -- many others have at least agreed
 that he is   an idiot -- now that should be abundantly clear to all.
I would add a moronic idiot to my description.

Some have thought Trenchcoat has been treated harshly by some of us -- all I can see is that people have bent over backwards to be kind to him and the idiot's anti social ,inappropriate attitudes become clearer with his every post.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

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Re: Former Soviet gymnast, Tatiana Gutsu, accusses teammate of Rape.
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2017, 06:08:08 PM »
I've no doubt a lot of it happens in female gymnastics but they don't help themselves by prancing around in skimpy leotards, perhaps a set of trackies would be more appropriate.


If clothing determines who gets raped, rapists should focus on beaches, preferably nudist beaches.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

 

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