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Author Topic: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences  (Read 47947 times)

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Offline southernX

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #425 on: September 29, 2016, 12:18:33 AM »
Quote
That wasn't an investigation but a big fat lie, you would have to be a braindead zombie to believe that BS about "valid evidence" gathering from the Ukrainian secret service and from youtube, twitter and facebook.  :D

yes , there all in the conspiracy to put Russia and mr putin down , then invade Russia with NATO ,

of course its all a big anti Russian conspiracy , how do we know this ?? because RT tells us !!!    only they have the REAL truth  ;)

SX
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Offline whynotme

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #426 on: September 29, 2016, 12:41:41 AM »
yes , there all in the conspiracy to put Russia and mr putin down , then invade Russia with NATO ,

of course its all a big anti Russian conspiracy , how do we know this ?? because RT tells us !!!    only they have the REAL truth  ;)

SX

Sadly I can't watch RT from Seattle. I have to search truthful information at RWD.  :D

Offline BC

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #427 on: September 29, 2016, 01:09:15 AM »
Sadly I can't watch RT from Seattle. I have to search truthful information at RWD.  :D

http://www.rt.com/on-air/
also http://www.rt.com/ for archived reports and other info

Offline JayH

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #428 on: September 29, 2016, 02:04:49 AM »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online jone

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #429 on: September 29, 2016, 10:44:31 AM »
That wasn't an investigation but a big fat lie, you would have to be a braindead zombie to believe that BS about "valid evidence" gathering from the Ukrainian secret service and from youtube, twitter and facebook.  :D
Btw, did you watch it or just read JayH posts?  :D 

The very first day, the very first hour, the very first minute after the plane was shot down, members of the extended forces in the area crowed with glee that they had shot down another Ukrainian plane.  Then, when it became known that they had shot down an airliner by mistake, all of those posts were removed.  Occams Razor triumphs where Russians try to dissemble. 

whynotme's dismissal as 'social media' the inadvertent confessions of the perpetrators, followed by Russia's immediate attempt to cover-up (damn.  someone kept the posts!)  make her look quite foolish. 

Experience keeps a dear school but fools will learn at no other - Benjamin Franklin

Offline whynotme

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #430 on: September 29, 2016, 02:23:50 PM »
The very first day, the very first hour, the very first minute after the plane was shot down, members of the extended forces in the area crowed with glee that they had shot down another Ukrainian plane.  Then, when it became known that they had shot down an airliner by mistake, all of those posts were removed.  Occams Razor triumphs where Russians try to dissemble. 

whynotme's dismissal as 'social media' the inadvertent confessions of the perpetrators, followed by Russia's immediate attempt to cover-up (damn.  someone kept the posts!)  make her look quite foolish.

All your posts end up the same way. So many efforts to prove how stupid I am.  :welcome:
I deliberately asked if you watched the press conference because it's not very likely. The most interesting there was the question part. Reporters who have no idea what's going on and perform a particular order immediately began to ask how Russia would be penalized. But there were different questions also. For example, why missiles manufacturer information wasn’t considered in the reconstruction. It is much more convenient to model based on Wikipedia, yeah. Why did they use photos corresponding to only one version? Too many photos, yeah. Where are the American satellite images in moment of the crash? They are still secret, yeah. Whose data were used? Ukrainian, yeah. It will be very strange to expect that they will testify against themselves. And it is not the end, you have to wait till 2018.  :D
I agree to accept any version confirmed by convincing facts. Desirable from a truly independent commission.

Online jone

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #431 on: September 29, 2016, 02:38:20 PM »
Right:  Your idea of an independent commission - The Russians.  There was never a question as to who shot down the plane.  Ten minutes after it happened everyone knew.  Everything after that has been disinformation, from the Russians who try to cast dispersions on their culpability.  Which you so actively spread.  So, yes, I have disdain for you. 

Take the tinfoil off of your head and join the real world.

Experience keeps a dear school but fools will learn at no other - Benjamin Franklin

Offline whynotme

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #432 on: September 29, 2016, 03:05:44 PM »
Right:  Your idea of an independent commission - The Russians.  There was never a question as to who shot down the plane.  Ten minutes after it happened everyone knew.  Everything after that has been disinformation, from the Russians who try to cast dispersions on their culpability.  Which you so actively spread.  So, yes, I have disdain for you. 

Take the tinfoil off of your head and join the real world.

An independent commission - both sides or none of them. The main evidence - telephone calls. Are you serious?  :P What about technical part? Somehow I believe in calculations more. Did you see any in the presentation? So follow your own advice.

Online calmissile

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #433 on: September 30, 2016, 06:26:23 PM »
I watched the entire video with great interest.  In the past, I have been a member of Accident Investigation Boards and have some experience and qualifications to speak on the topic.

What was reported in this video is a very good example of how all AIB's function. They did a methodical collection and analysis of all available data and reported on only the conclusions that they can arrive at based on the scientific evidence.  Their conclusions (so far) has only established the make and model of the missile that brought MH17 down and where it was launched from.  They also established the fact it came from Russian and was returned to Russia following the incident.  The evidence is overwhelming on these points.

I was somewhat amused that the Russian journalists were pressing the panel about the US (classified) intelligence data.  It was explained that there was an apparent agreement that the data could not be released and is in the hands of very few people.

The capabilities of US intelligence satellites is one of our most closely guarded secrets. Hopefully, Hillary did not have access to any of it.   ;)  I am surprised that the US allowed it to be used in the investigation.  Hidden in the legal mumbo-jumbo about the topic, it appears that the raw data cannot be used in a trial as it would compromise the capabilities of the source.  I suspect that the data value would be in corroborating the physical evidence and conclusions that were made without the data.  It also could be used as a tool to make sure the investigating body is on the right track and not a path leading to a dead end.

Doug (Calmissile)

Offline ML

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #434 on: September 30, 2016, 08:37:11 PM »
Another point which flies right by the idiot Russian people who continue to deny that Russia was totally responsible for the downing of the plane.

Netherlands conducted the investigation.
Netherlands knows that Russia is much more powerful on the world stage than Ukraine.
Netherlands knows that there is much more to be gained from trade and cooperation with Russia than with Ukraine.
Netherlands would try every angle possible to conclude that Ukraine was responsible and not Russia.
Despite wanting to absolve Russia and blame Ukraine, Netherlands just couldn't do it as everything pointed to Russia as being responsible.
Netherlands would just have to perform too many contortions to support Russia.  Only the Russian people are able to lie and contort the truth to the degree necessary to absolve Russia.
Ban shredded cheese. Make America Grate Again

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #435 on: September 30, 2016, 11:49:11 PM »
The capabilities of US intelligence satellites is one of our most closely guarded secrets. Hopefully, Hillary did not have access to any of it.   ;)  I am surprised that the US allowed it to be used in the investigation.  Hidden in the legal mumbo-jumbo about the topic, it appears that the raw data cannot be used in a trial as it would compromise the capabilities of the source.  I suspect that the data value would be in corroborating the physical evidence and conclusions that were made without the data.  It also could be used as a tool to make sure the investigating body is on the right track and not a path leading to a dead end.

Satellite are watching for missile launches all over the world. Probably picked up the Buk launch and followed the heat trail of the delivery vehicle all the way back to Russia. Regardless of how much evidence is presented or confessions of the troops that launched the missile, the Russian government is going to deny and won't be paying a dime to anybody.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Offline JayH

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #436 on: October 04, 2016, 04:35:21 PM »
The Kremlin leader’s next moves, Eidman argues, are likely to include both the imposition of “a chauvinist and xenophobic ideology” on the Russian people and more actions in foreign affairs based on the proposition that “’the best defense is a good offense’” with “ever more new military adventures” to follow.

PROOF OF PUTIN'S CRIME WITHIN A CRIME

Proof that Moscow was behind the shooting down of the Malaysian airliner MH17 has far larger and more explosive consequences than many now think because unlike the Soviet Union’s shooting down of the KAL jet, this latest action was “a crime within the crime” of invading Ukraine, according to Russian commentator Igor Eidman.

That fact makes Vladimir Putin, now “an unmasked but not yet disarmed criminal” even “more dangerous” because he is likely to conclude that he has “nothing to lose” by acting ever more aggressively at home and abroad and every reason to do so in order to delay any day of reckoning for his crimes.

Some analysts have suggested that neither the USSR nor the US suffered “any particular consequences” when the first by intention shot down the Korean jetliner and the latter accidentally shot the Iranian one. But that was the case, Eidman says, only because these actions, unlike the shooting down of MH17 didn’t occur in the course of a larger crime.

http://euromaidanpress.com/2016/10/04/proof-of-putins-crime-within-a-crime-has-far-reaching-consequences-eidman-says/
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #437 on: November 11, 2016, 12:23:27 AM »
The search for the train of command continues.piece by piece more becomes known as time passes.

Bellingcat: Russia army commander liable for sending Buk to Donbas
"Ultimately, the responsibility for sending military equipment into Ukraine is the responsibility of the commander of the Russian military. So, where that specific order came from is hard for us to know, but keep in mind the joint investigation team have a large number of intercepted communications that are a part of the case as well. So maybe in there we have the person who requested the [Buk] missile launcher, and we can see who that request went to. And then we can understand who they would have to have actually spoken to allow that to happen," he said in an interview with Deutsche Welle.

Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/war/1617596-bellingcat-russia-army-commander-liable-for-sending-buk-to-donbas-video.html

SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #438 on: February 09, 2017, 12:37:45 AM »
In a time where Trump takes aim at terrorist acts around the world  one would think he would be looking at Russian terrorism. Maybe because they were not US citizens  killed it does not interest Trump !

This guy has a long Russian military history that is all a matter of record.

Detailes  about the main suspect in the case of the crash of MH17

Published Prosecutor's Office and the Security Service of the Netherlands intercepted phone calls about the crash MH17 able to recognize one of the participants in the conversation Sergey Nikolayevich Petrovsky (Dubinsky), hiding under the callsign Dull. The activists of the NGO "Єvroprostіr" prepared a detailed investigation into the identity of the Russian mercenary, transfers . As noted, Dubinsky was born in the village of Great Novosyolky in the west of the Donetsk region, where he spent his childhood.
There he lived for several years and just before the Russian Federation against Ukraine's military aggression.

Источник: http://www.amn.com.ua/podiyi/poyavylys-detalnye-dannye-o-glavnom-podozrevaemom-v-dele-o-krushenyy-mh17/




SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Russia doesn’t deny Russian missile downed MH17
« Reply #439 on: March 09, 2017, 09:32:19 PM »
The hearing currently taking place is producing some interesting revelations .Of note is the twists and turns Russia is attempting to avoid coming within specific definitions.
What a tragedy it would be  if the legal nuances were to allow Russia to escape culpability.i

Russia’s lawyer doesn’t deny Russian missile downed MH17, only that it’s terrorism
Koh noted the extraordinary argumentation given by Samuel Worthsworth, a British lawyer representing Russia.  As reported, Wordsworth’s statement was especially interesting because of what he avoided denying.  He asserted:

“There is no evidence, plausible or otherwise, that Russia provided weaponry to any party with the intent or knowledge that such weaponry be used to shoot down civilian aircraft, as would of course be required under Article 2.1” [of the Terrorism Financing Convention].

Wordsworth did not directly deny that weapons, in this case the Buk missile which downed MH17, killing 298 civilians, had been supplied to the militants.  He instead sought to convince the Court that this does not fall under the Convention because of what Koh calls “multiple intent requirements that he imposed on the Convention’s language”

http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1489068829
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online msmob

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #440 on: March 09, 2017, 11:39:14 PM »
Had to check out Mr Wordsworth .. seems he has a record of being employed by States to put their case.

He has worked for Russia before - representing them re accusations concerning ethic cleansing in the Georgia conflict. Russia supports breakaway republics such as 'Abkhazia'  in the way - they say - that many western govts support Kosovo.. ( not that western states handed out passports in the way Russia did to the breakaway republics... )


Bet he gets paid, handsomely ))


 
Sod off Photobucket - this punter moved to flickr - rather than being blackmailed

Offline JayH

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Is Putin preparing to admit guilt for MH17?
« Reply #441 on: March 15, 2017, 08:32:02 PM »
Is it possible? If it is-- most likely it will be everyone else's doing-- and they are already all dead !

Is Putin preparing to admit guilt for MH17?
The International Court of Justice (ICJ) began its hearings on Ukraine’s suit against Russia on March 6 in the Hague. Ukraine’s 45-page indictment alleges that Russia violated two UN conventions: First, the Terrorist Financing Treaty through its support of “illegally armed groups” in the self-proclaimed People’s Republics of Donetsk and Luhansk, and, second, the mistreatment of Tartars under the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination. The shooting down of MH17 is included as a violation of the Terrorist Financing Treaty.

http://www.kyivpost.com/article/opinion/op-ed/paul-roderick-gregory-putin-preparing-admit-guilt-mh17.html?utm_content=bufferd94a1&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Russia is getting rid of inconvenient witnesses
« Reply #442 on: March 17, 2017, 08:27:26 PM »

The session of the Hague tribunal is taking place and we hope that finally the “t’s” will be crossed and “i’s” will be dotted and the state criminals who perhaps were behind the downing of the Malaysian airliner and countless war crimes will be named finally. What are the chances?

Russia is getting rid of inconvenient witnesses for The Hague — Mark Feigin

You see that the main figures have disappeared over the past 18 months. Only Zakharchenko, Plotnycky, and that Strelkov (Girkin), and a few other people have remained. Actually very few of the direct witnesses of what happened have remained.

I’m not even talking about the whole range of the dead, the missing, the killed, or those who drank tea, the so-called commanders or similar people in the “DNR” and “LNR.” Therefore, there are fewer and fewer living witnesses. And I think that in a while there will be none at all.
http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/03/18/russia-is-getting-rid-of-inconvenient-witnesses-for-the-hague-mark-feigin/
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #443 on: June 05, 2017, 04:19:19 AM »
The amazing work of Bellingcat continues .


Pre-MH17 Photograph of Buk 332 Discovered


Following a tip from Twitter user @Sl0zhny, Bellingcat was able to find the “missing link” photograph that shows these white transport markings on Buk 332 from before the June 2014 convoy. A photograph taken by a Russian mechanic, likely in the spring of 2013, shows Buk 332 with the same white transport markings that were on the Buk while in Ukraine shortly before and after the downing of MH17. This photograph is the last discovered image of Buk 332, showing its non-obscured unit designation and transport markings, before the June 2014 convoy, when the middle digit of its unit designation was painted over.

http://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2017/06/05/pre-mh17-photograph-buk-332-discovered/
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #444 on: July 21, 2017, 02:13:10 AM »
Not  that the Russians will ever admit responsibility for the murder of the 298 people on board MH -17 --but the convoluted lies they keep constructing are comic.
Typically-- move from one lie to the next-- and never concede how ridiculous it makes them look.


Why did Russia close its airspace near Donbas one day before flight MH17 was downed?

Why did Russia close its airspace near Donbas one day before flight MH17 was downed?

The Dutch experts did not receive a clarification from the Russian side on this apparent “conflict of altitudes,” or on Russia’s reasons to restrict civilian flights at a higher altitude than in Ukraine.

Moreover, Forbes writes, MH17’s flight route intersected the Rostov ATC Control Zone, which received instructions to restrict flights up to FL530 starting from midnight. Therefore, the Rostov air traffic controller knew that when MH17 would cross into Russian airspace flying at its FL330, it would enter a zone forbidden for civilian aviation flights, but was silent. Moreover, he said nothing to over 150 other civilian airliners which entered Russian airspace starting from midnight of 17 July 2014 until the moment when Ukraine closed down its airspace.

Why did the Rostov Flight Information Region restrict flight altitudes in Russian airspace near the Ukrainian border specifically on 17 July 2014, the day MH17 was shot down?
why is the altitude of this restriction out of the reach for all existing types of civilian aircraft but is practically the same as the maximum shooting altitude of the Buk anti-aircraft missile system?

http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/07/18/why-did-russia-close-its-airspace-one-day-before-flight-mh17-was-downed/
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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New Photograph of Buk 332 from Day of MH17 Downing
« Reply #445 on: October 19, 2017, 06:12:08 PM »
In more recent times the information that the US was holding has been given to the investigators.The extent of that information given is not so clear. Exactly what that adds to what was already known is unclear --but it will certainly add confirmation on many points already established.
Bellingcat has continued following all the information and cross referencing it.

New Photograph of Buk 332 from Day of MH17 Downing

Today the Joint Investigation Team (JIT), the Dutch-led criminal investigation into the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 (MH17) over Ukraine, published a new photograph of the Russian Buk missile launcher that downed plane from the day of the tragedy. The image shows the right side of the Buk, loaded on the back of the white Volvo truck that hauled it through eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2017. Also visible in the photograph is the blue Volkswagen minivan that escorted the Buk through eastern Ukraine on the same day. This anti-aircraft missile launcher is Buk 332, previously identified by Bellingcat as “Buk 3×2,” belonging to Russia’s Kursk-based 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade.

http://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2017/10/19/jit-publishes-new-photograph-buk-332-day-mh17-downing/
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online jone

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Re: Civilian Airliner Shot Down 298 Dead-- Consequences
« Reply #446 on: October 19, 2017, 09:00:51 PM »
What I think is so disgusting about this entire affair is that the families impacted by the deed are hoist on the lie spread by the Russian government.  And normal Russia people suffered for a generation with the Evil Empire nom delivered by Reagan when the Korean Airliner (007) was shot down near Kamchatka in 1983.  Now, another generation of Russians have to suffer the same degradation and distrust from the world due to the continuous outlandish denials by the Russian government  news and disinformation outlets.

Experience keeps a dear school but fools will learn at no other - Benjamin Franklin

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Russian Colonel General Identified as Key MH17 Figure
« Reply #447 on: December 08, 2017, 11:53:20 PM »
Bellingcat continues investigating and following the trail upstream. How close it will get to Putin will be interesting -- and it is hardly likely that many who may be able to help uncover the truth will live long enough to do so !

A joint investigation between The Insider and Bellingcat used open source research, investigative journalism, and forensic voice analyan sis to determine the identity of “Delfin,” a key figure sought by the Joint Investigation Team (JIT), the Dutch-led criminal investigation into the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 (MH17). The investigation has identified, to a high degree of certainty, Delfin as Colonel General Nikolai Fedorovich Tkachev, currently serving as the Chief Inspector of the Central Military District of the Russian Federation.

Russian Colonel General Identified as Key MH17 Figure


Colonel General Nikolai Fedorovich Tkachev, “Delfin”, is the senior-most Russian officer who has been linked to the downing of MH17. Unlike Sergey Dubinsky and Igor Girkin, Tkachev was, and still is, an active functionary in the Russian military through his ongoing role as Chief Inspector of the Central Military District. His exact role and importance for the MH17 case has not been made public so far by the JIT.

Available open source information suggests that person behind the pseudonym “Delfin” is a former or current Russian army officer of higher rank, likely a general. Furthermore, his words indicate that his name is Nikolai Fedorovich. Only Colonel General Nikolai Fedorovich Tkachev matched these characteristics; however, before conducting forensic audio analysis, there was no direct evidence showing Tkachev’s direct link to the LNR and the war in the Donbas.

http://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2017/12/08/russian-colonel-general-delfin/
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

 

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