Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Trip Reports => Topic started by: Patagonie on May 01, 2011, 01:45:06 PM

Title: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 01, 2011, 01:45:06 PM
Operation White Panther



Previsionnal budget : 3700 €

Stage 5/5
17 days 2 days off (travel) 15 days available (3 week ends)
Destination : Dnepropetrovsk
Backup : Kharkov

Type : VMWAAWA (visit many and as possible write any)
Today : D-19
return efficiency expected on agency 1 : 40% (21 asked, great if 9 will show)
On agency 2 : 30 % (10 will be asked if necessary, great if 3 will show)
Free sites : EM one answer waited, Others : good (nine contacted 48 hours ago, one phone number returned from a probably 8.7, waiting the others) : Good return of my ad in Lavaplace, in 48 hours : 15 virtual kisses (sorry 16 now 8), 2 admirers.
Others backups : in Kharkov we will see. A girl of Lugansk had contacted me, interesting, but normally out of my range (ask her to come in Dnep and of course pay all her expenses, we will see).

This is a part of my ad i like :
Я мечтаю о тебе с первого дня нашей встречи во Франции: я возьму тебя за руку и мы будем путешествовать вместе по горам. Потом мы увидим восход солнца. Я приглашу тебя на обед сразу над озером с разноцветными витражами и красивым видом на местность. После мы возьмем каное, чтобы добраться до середины озера. Мы будем вместе плавать и если ты будешь хорошо себя вести, я намажу твои плечи солнцезащитным кремом (только если ты окажешься действительно очень милой).Перед ужином я заберу тебя, прежде, чем мы пойдем
в маленький замок в горах около леса. Мы пойдем в теплый ресторанчик, чтобы отведать традиционной французской еды и расслабимся около камина и нескольких кошек, которые будут ходить вокруг тебя и мурлыкать, если ты почешешь их. Если ты действительно романтик, мы могли бы погулять в лесу за замком, послушать шепот ветра между деревьями, но я должен лучше тебя узнать, чтобы предложить это, потому что там темно и я не знаю, что может случиться с тобой, а в друг ты опасная женщина. Ты можешь попытаться поцеловать меня в ушко, самую чувствительную зону. Это то, что произойдет в первый день. О втором спроси меня.

Target : 30-36
Extended target : 28-41

Tickets : bought
Agency 1 : booked
First week : flat and taxi booked

Energy 70 %
Self confidence 89 %
Seduction training 80 %
Sport training : 50 %

If possible avoid what happened in stage 4 :
my city --> Frankfurt, Frankfurt--> Munich. Munich --> Kiev. Kiev--> Kharkov. GF1 Kharkov --> Lviv. Lviv --> Poland. Poland--> Bohemia. Bohemia--> Italia. Florencia--> Roma. Roma--> Kiev. Kiev--> Kharkov. GF2. Kharkov--> Kiev. Kiev--> Frankfurt. Frankfurt--> my city.

IT materials :
laptop computer
1 iphone 3
1 iphone 4
2 USB keys

Clothes :
later



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on May 01, 2011, 02:05:38 PM
Now you just need to pack some heat and you're good to go  :D

On a more serious note, I hope you will do well and I see a fat travel report coming in the near future. Right?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 01, 2011, 02:13:50 PM
Hello Natural.
Yes i will try to do my best to give back a lot of informations.
It's not very easy because the schedule will be for sure very busy and for the moment i don't know if i will have in the flat an internet connection (week one) wich is of course very convenient.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Lily on May 01, 2011, 03:30:17 PM
Hi Patagonie,

Are you seriously up to publishing that ad that you wrote above in Russian in the hope that women might be interested in getting to know the author? Or do you have a different wording for introducing yourself to the women?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 01, 2011, 03:43:37 PM
Operation White Panther

If possible avoid what happened in stage 4 :
my city --> Frankfurt, Frankfurt--> Munich. Munich --> Kiev. Kiev--> Kharkov. GF1 Kharkov --> Lviv. Lviv --> Poland. Poland--> Bohemia. Bohemia--> Italia. Florencia--> Roma. Roma--> Kiev. Kiev--> Kharkov. GF2. Kharkov--> Kiev. Kiev--> Frankfurt. Frankfurt--> my city.


Wow, was all that so you could visit 2 gals in Kharkiv and they would know you came to see only them on a VO trip !!   :)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on May 01, 2011, 09:44:03 PM
Hi Patagonie,

Are you seriously up to publishing that ad that you wrote above in Russian ...

Lily, that was my thought too  :D

Patagonie, are you seriously...?

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 01, 2011, 11:38:31 PM
Hi Patagonie,

Are you seriously up to publishing that ad that you wrote above in Russian in the hope that women might be interested in getting to know the author? Or do you have a different wording for introducing yourself to the women?
Lily, as i said this is only a part of my ad. You don't find it romantical Lily ? :P
The goal of the ad is very clear : no penpal , no romance, no traval partner : only marriage.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 02, 2011, 01:38:55 AM
Wow, was all that so you could visit 2 gals in Kharkiv and they would know you came to see only them on a VO trip !!   :)
:) i think there is more simple if you want to visit two differents girls (VO) during the same vacation   :cluebat:
No you would have do the same as me :
You come, you meet several ladies, one likes you and you like her, you begin an affair. She proposes you to to come along with her in Italy. You think at this moment : i will be really foolish to stay here, if i want to know her. Just before leaving the town you meet a girl you like too by your interpreter. So you send to this girl a "last" SMS. "I feel you are really special i like you but someone i like too propose me to go to a tour with her. I'm a man and i make decision. Are you ok to be contacted if i come back. She answers "Yes, good travel".
So go to a tour : 24 hours of tren and after get into a bus full of ukrainian people at Lviv. You are the only guy who not speak russian  :wallbash: After one week GF1 gives you a  critical information that let you know this relation is over. You spend the last night in her bed, without sex because you don't want to let her thinking that you drop her only because your motivation is a dirty thing.
Returning to the previous ukrainian city. the interpreter says to you : you MUST meet others girls, even if you like my friend, and even she likes you. After few meetings I STOP it because i want to focus on GF2. So we have an affair, without sex if you want to know. Sex is not my priority. If i want i can have plenty in my country.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Aloe on May 02, 2011, 05:12:24 AM
Wow that ad stinks "i am not serious about this" and raises a red flag the size of a little planet. Very unpleasant aftertase. First of all, all the talking about kissing your little ear, the most sensitive part, is kinda revolting, coming from a man you do not know yet. Second of all, just the fact that you wrote it and a woman read it, and when we read something we actually involuntarily imagine it, i just feel a little bit virtually raped for having imaginatory to have kissed your little ear, your most sensitive zone, eww, where is the barf icon?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Aloe on May 02, 2011, 05:27:08 AM
This type of talking should be reserved to someone you are intimate with. Not everyone on the whole world wide web. And specifically because you talked this way to the entire internet, is why you come off extremely unserious dreamy type of person who is all talk and no action. People who are action do not talk about these things to the entire world. Only to their special someone.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Lily on May 02, 2011, 05:30:12 AM
Lily, as i said this is only a part of my ad. You don't find it romantical Lily ? :P
The goal of the ad is very clear : no penpal , no romance, no traval partner : only marriage.

Exactly, your goal is marriage. You want the woman to fall in love for you therefore.

Yes I see this is romantical, but personally I don't think that women consider being romantical the primary criterion in chosing a partner. In case this is only a part - then it seems to be allright. By the way, is your ad that long and wordy? some women may not wish to read it.

In this part of your ad, you tell her what nice things you would do to her. But Patagonie, women don't chose by the criteria what the man will do them. They chose by the criterion who is the man. See the difference? Not WHAT is he doing to her, but WHO is he actually. This is what their female instincts tell them.

This is about chosing instinctively, and rationally. Their reasons may tell them something like, okay, this man is uninteresting, unattractive, etc., but he treats me so well and I go marry him. Their instincts may tell them, 'This man is interesting and attractive, okay I could probably compromise on something but I go with him because I dammit in love with him.Perhaps I could cope with his shortcomings.'
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 02, 2011, 05:31:40 AM
Aloe
It is possible that this part of the ad is not exactly what i wanna say exactly.
I'm explaining why :
I translated myself in english (wich is not my native language as you can guess it) AND someone (i don't want to give some details but it's perhaps a not professionnal translator) else translated it in russian.

For my whole introduction (8 pages) as i used directly a professionnal translator (and a good one) , giving her the document in my native language she translated in russian. I know and i'm sure that translation is perfect, and most girls, who having read it, had really liked it.

Now you alert me because perhaps this one is not exactly what i mean, from my native language.

So if someone, fluent in russian, can translate in english what i've put in the "ad", so i can check and be sure of what i want to mean, please can someone do this job ? I will be thankful.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 02, 2011, 05:53:51 AM
I've asked, if they have some free time, to check the whole ad (and my whole introduction, the professional one) to Lily and Aloe. I have no doubt those two experimented woman will understand where is the problem (or the misunderstanding).
Thank.
Title: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 03, 2011, 05:18:59 AM
D-17
Downloaded 21 profiles of agency 1
Downloaded 11 profiles of agency 2
All in the mobile, complete backup on the laptop.

Shooted photos of the map ot the city and all informations about the two agencies i will use, and put into the mobile.

First problem :
The agency 1 let me to retrieve adress of all the girls i want.
Yes : i have X geographicals adresses and what ?  :cluebat:
So i asked the mail adresses of those ladies. Answer of the agency (BS/BS) :
"Ladies usually don't publish their e-mail addresses for different reasons (most of them don't know English, some don't have internet access, so they prefer to get letters translated by the agency)."  :ROFL:
Ok i let them to do the job.
What can i do with geographicals adresses ??? It needed 3 or 4 weeks for a letter to be dropped in ladies' letterbox, and with no guarantee at all.
I would have sent sooner if i had know, photos and the whole introduction, but now it's too late.  :-\
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: TwoBitBandit on May 03, 2011, 09:23:44 AM
Patagonie, I have to agree with the ladies on this one... the content of that portion of your profile came off as a little weird to me too...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 03, 2011, 10:02:02 AM
Thank you,
In fact, i press this point, it's the END of my ad, with in first the traditionnal measuring, who i am, what i like ta da ta da ta...
Of course i don't want to publish all these informations.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Ranetka on May 03, 2011, 10:05:11 AM
Patagonie,

I agree with all the ladies.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Vincenzo on May 03, 2011, 01:52:50 PM
If I understand your ad correctly, you write about the future, about your sexual fantasies.

When I want to look romantic, I write about the present.
Like: "When I pluck the melody of The Umbrellas of Cherbourg on my guitar, I see the image of two lovers strolling along the rainy French streets, hugging and kissing each other." Of course, when we skype, she asks to perform and I oblige.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 03, 2011, 03:47:06 PM
I would thank Aloe and Lily,  for their help. What they checked is :
there is a not appropriate translation in the ad and in my whole introduction.

I refere  them because i'm totally blind in russian, as i don't speak (but want to know, first lesson the 23th may ;)).

I'm not only disappointed, but more a little angry.
I've paid a high price to a "professional" translator in my country  for the whole introduction.  And it seems that five sentences are not understandable, there are grammaticals errors too.
About the ad and (i give to Aloe and Lily the full text of the ad) the translator made a confusion about my job letting the reader believe that i'm the BIG director of my departement (wich i'm not). Exactly the sort of things i dislike  : lie about who i'm. I perfectly know that you can go down on flames and lost a relation with an FSU women about such detail.

The second thing, more harmful is the ad (AM I RIGHT every russian speakers ?) make allusion about nudity. Wich is really far from the french version i wanted. To suggest is not to say, if you want to have the tone of the whole message.
In this ad
1/ i deliver some basics information.
2/ i tell how my friends see me, what we can share (sports / culture)
3/ i put a little enigma to raise curiosity following by the connection needed with my beloved
4/  (last part, not well translated and showed in the topic) Time of an HYPOTHETICAL journey with me. It's a mix of present and futur but the whole action is of course conditional. It's an invitation to share something and to tease her. Vincenzo you are right writing "hugging and kissing each other" is already a trempolino to prepare her to do it and to accept it. I'm a little higher than you but as i have more text, i begin on the zero level upgrading by a complete use of human senses and i finish higher, climbing over. Don't forget that the part in russian in the ad is only half of the whole ad.  

So i feel angry and frustated because i'm a writer in french for a long time, i've got some prices and in french, few people (because you don't send your whole introduction to the earth) consider it (not the ad) as a "piece of art".
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: I/O on May 03, 2011, 04:00:20 PM
where is the barf icon?
Right here------> :puke:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on May 03, 2011, 04:43:23 PM

The second thing, more harmful is the ad (AM I RIGHT every russian speakers ?) make allusion about nudity.

Patagonie,

I would rather say it leaves a sickly sweet taste of the past centuries' romance novels with some erotic reference that were popular among the young languishing virgins and emotionally hungry and unstable missuses in the prime of their life.  :D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on May 03, 2011, 04:48:02 PM
Patagonie,

btw, what is the genre in which you are writing (as a professional writer)?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Lily on May 03, 2011, 07:04:25 PM
 the translator made a confusion about my job letting the reader believe that i'm the BIG director of my departement (wich i'm not).  

I did not found anything that would bring me on an idea that you are a sort of a big person in your department.

About nudity, yes, I found this. My understanding is that it might have been some figurative expression in French (assume the translation was from French into Russian?), but in Russian language it does not really sound well, especially in this type of introductory essay of a man targeting women.

Other than that, I don't think that the translator is to blame. He or she did a good job, trying to preserve your style. However, some particular places just may need rephrasing so that it sounds more understandable and unambiguous to a Russian female reader. Perhaps it would be worth to cooperate with the translator and to change the wording in a few places for the sake of telling of what you want to tell but at the same time of avoiding bad impression.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 07, 2011, 09:59:45 AM
Energy 65 %
Self confidence 91 %
Seduction training 85 %
Sport training : 50 %
D-13

Agency 1 gave me back some informations. 3 of my top list
has answered positively to meet me. Hb between 8,5/9 based on photos.
i got two others success on the free site i began to use. Two hb between 8,5/9 but calling one of her i realized that she has very very little english skill. So an interpreter will be needed. For me it's a reason to drop her later, we will see.
Agency one proposed ten profiles to meet. I will politely tell them that i'm not interested because i spent a lot of time to choice the 21 ladies. So i'm sure of what i've done.
I begin to feel more excited but always totally under control. For me they are only photos in an album. I need now to check the interpreter that i found and found a second one as backup. For the moment it's really the better travel i have scheduled. I think i can relax and focus on the most importants things : how i feel with the ladies, estimate if they are attracted or not and enjoy my life !
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 09, 2011, 02:36:05 AM
Energy 68 %
Self confidence 88 %
Seduction training 80 %
Sport training : 50 %
D-12
Things are going better and better.
a third lady of the free site put me in her favorites and now i'm just waiting her email adress to send her my whole introduction, because she needs to have more information before meeting me. I answered : "Dear lady I agree and respect your request. I have a complete introduction (all in russian, very easy to read). So you you will know me really better. The best is to give me an email because i cannot send it on this site. Mine is myemail@provider.country. Sincerely. Patagonie" She is from Kharkov wich is not the city i aim for, but i will surely go to Harkov anyways, so a meeting is possible.

My strategy is to arrive in Dnepropetrovsk, meet a maximum of girls, between 8 an 10 during the week end an 6 more, monday, tuesday and wednesday. Wednesday i will think about how is things are growing. If i don't like any i will go for the second week end to Harkov. And if things are fine i will go to Harkov next monday for two or three days because i know some people and i like this city. We will see. The goal is normally to focus on two or three maximum to know her better and spend time with them the second week end and of course the last one.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 09, 2011, 06:47:25 AM
Before you go :
When you contact girls of the city where you want to go.
Advice 1 : don't be shy.
Tell them bla bla bla bla i'm coming in your city SOON
Don't tell them exactly when, just soon. Or better before the end of june or ....

Perhaps you will have at first time very few answers.
Why ? I had had the explanation before my first travel when i tried to contact ladies. After a first mail no answer. I thought, ok, if she doesn't like me it's really simple to say, "bye good search, but i'm not interested". But in fact i had guessed there an another reason : she didn't believe me. So I contacted her again saying, I'M REALLY COMING and I CAN SHOW YOU A COPY OF THE TICKETS.
So she answered and we had had a little discussion about that issue. She explained me that a lot of guys are saying the same type of things just to get her interest but they never show.
So don't be reluctant to contact them twice and let her begin to think "he elects me".



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 09, 2011, 07:23:52 AM
Lady 3 of free site contacts me  ;).
But i don't know, for this one (text of the mail, photo in very low resolution), my antenna anti-scammer/goldrigger is UP and i'm going  to analyze all the spectrum of informations available. Time will give me more information.
Some girls are VERY professionnal and will wait the third or fourth travel to scam you (true, one tried to scam me after TWO travels, never asking me money or showing any interest about this issue). So now i feel my guts and rely on.

To be sure, if i have a meeting with her i would use Mila as interpreter in Kharkov, and in few minutes she will check her. No money wasted, believe me !
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 09, 2011, 12:36:25 PM
About the adresses i got from agency 1.
I've decided to send anything, not enough time to be sure that ladies will receive it.
Too risky, wasted time and wasted money. I've decided to keep these adresses in my database perhaps for a next travel, if needed.
I think really i have enough girls to meet. And it will be very complicated to send letters locally without knowing the whole agenda of who i will see and who i will not see.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 10, 2011, 07:23:09 AM
Energy 60 %
Self confidence 81 %
Seduction training 75 %
Sport training : 50 %
D-11

Ok now we are more statistics about our score :
Agency 1 : 9 of 21 girsl are interested to meet me.
Wich, at my opinion, is a very good score. Of course in an agency that you don't know (with the label : not honest) it means nothing. As they can use few "mules" to milk you during the week with the money given to the interpreters. But this one have good reputation. And they will not really milk me with interpreters as we will see later.

So score is 43%.
 Finally i agreed to see two girls of their own list, one want to really meet me.

Total 10 dates.

Now, for the moment it's more prudential to not contact agency 2, because i will not have enough time to meet girls' agency2 on the beginning of my trip. BUT as little time is needed to get the date, you need to contact them in advance, perhaps two days before.

As i'm really comfortable i can wait monday.

I must schedule the two girls of Dnepropetrovsk too. And as one is living at 50 kilometers and has today a good interest i must schedule her for a whole evening. The best seems to be sunday in the evening. It's a little boring because if i don't like her she will travel a lot for not a long time of meeting. But on the opposite this shows her interest. At this occasion, as of course i will pay all her expenses (i will propose and as she is a teacher, if she won't i will insist because this job is amongst the cheapest) we will know her degree of honesty. Interesting. It's like a poker situation : i'm ready to pay to see the cards, if there is really something wrong : NEXT.

Something funny. The agency wrote me :
"Ladies usually don't want to come for the meeting earlier then at 12 a.m. - 1 p.m. (It may take them two hours to get ready for a date)." TRUE :clapping: ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 11, 2011, 06:58:12 AM
Now it's time to exam a little more those twelve ladies :
I must memorize more about them, even if i have the whole bunch of photos of woman i'm interested in my iphone.
So in average they are 173 cm and 32 old.
I have no problem with tall women, my first FSU GF was 176 cm and with her high heel it was perfect for kiss  8) . My doctor recommended me to make as possible any efforts during kissing because of my neck. On twelve four have a single child, this is my choice. So i think i'm not dating out of my court and, based on photos the average range of this ladies is around 8.4/8.5. Wich is higher than what i date here in my country, but not so much (no more than 0.3/0.4 point i think)

As everybody knows photos studio are always a pain and you suffer of disappointement when you meet the girl because she is loosing 0.5 point at least. The problem is not that they are shooted in a studio by a professionnal. The main problem that these photos are processed with Photoshop for a whole lifting.
For mine i used a friend, he is a professionnal, but he shoteed me in natural condition, and NO photoshop at the end. Just color, brightness balance  like each photo in the world.
Everybody want to pass the physical attraction test, because, you know, people are judged on their photos, by the girls directly, and when the agency call the ladies, i imagine the first thing they are waiting is to have an answer at this question "how does he look ?". Height and weight are the second masters parameters which fix the decision. Of course if you are widowed with 4 childs it can afraid her too.
But overprices your photos (use photos shooted ten years ago) to pass the physical attraction to get the date can be a disadvantage during the meeting itself.
Really it's better to not disappoint your date. It's true for men and it's true for women.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 11, 2011, 02:17:35 PM
The girl of Lugansk contacted me again (i thought that she was lost).

She is 25 with a very young child. She is not in my age  target range. But 1/ she speaks a good english 2/ she has a baby 3/ She contacts me first on a good site  4/ i like her photo. She seems (for the moment), genuine and simple.

One of the problem of the international dating is to manage your emotions and to control yourself.
As you browse a bunch of photos you are  in general prone to focus on some, forgetting your goal to aim one city.
And when you aim a city you use differents ways to meet ladies. Agencies, free sites, paid sites, interpreters who will introduce you to girls, ads. This is to maximise your chances. So each time you can be "distracted" by many women who don't live in your target. Begin a correspondance with them doesn't help the process, quite the opposite !

Must i throw away this girl ? Knowing that for the moment her profile shows interesting clues. And her city will be, if nothing happens during this travel (if something happens my way is to enter in an unique relation, normally i prefer to enter quickly  in such relation but experience has showed me that it's better to delay rather to propose too quickly)  the next on my list.

So i decided to :
Going to see her in Lugansk during my 17 days trip is out of question.
I don't know  her for the moment, let's the correspondance go on.
First see the 12 girls who are waiting to meet
And take a decision later (propose her to come, at my expense, why not ? This will show of course her interest)

It's better to have more possibilities than time to consume it.
It happened to me twice to be stucked during one or days with no action, and really you feell trapped, and it's annoying when you really know what you want in life.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 12, 2011, 08:50:54 AM
Now it's time to speak about what i will bring with me.

First i have a bacpack where i put into :
All expansive items, and in particular computer, watches,CD, camera battery charger.

Second in the suitcase i put only clothes and shoes and of course a toilet bag. This time i need to bring a special bottle of wine for the interpreter i met during my last travel.

I bought a stiff suitcase. The idea is that they need to broke it and leave some trace so you can make a claim straight head to the company. I think they are interest by all metallic objects put in the luggage, because they see it on the scanner. So all metallic objects are in my backpack, and i always keep my backpack with me during the travel, wich i finally put in the cabin for the flight.

For the moment i never had a problem. But i remember, in Kiev's station baggage room, the employee tried to open it. Fortunately he didn't success. With a non rigid suitcase i would have been stolen.

After your arrival in FSU the first feeling you have when you are preparing yourself for the first meeting is that you briefly realize that you are almost alone on the earth. Yours landmarks are cut and you have nothing. Only you, your skin, your clothes, a part of your energy (limited after the travel, especially for USA guys), and half or a quarter of your potential of communication. Fortunately, the sight of the beautiful women who are waiting you on the sidewalk restarts your energy in general. Some are even excited few hours before. For all who are not easy in dating, the excitation phase is also the disturbed phase,
which can bring some undesirable effects :ROFL:

At this point you realize that you are almost nuked.

My armor is built with my clothes, my self energy, my natural self confidence.
Clothes ?
Interesting.
For what i saw and in the FSU and in the west, not many man are well dressed. In fact few or very few. Some make efforts but it's obvious they have no taste. We can say there are many levels :

Not dressed
Make efforts but without results (sometimes it's counterproductive)
Buy good clothes (valuable items) but not coordinated
Buy good clothes coordinated
Able to make combo with good taste
Able to make combo and show a real personnality in clothes with taste even if standards are not respected (personnality overtops the rules)

For 2000 years there is no doubt that clothes are a big factor to improve the most important : yourself. Why do you prefer FSU with high heels and skirts, for the same level of beauty, rather than her western counterpart, with baggy throuser and no make up ?
I don't want to argue about this discussion, everybody, i think, share the same clues about this topic.

When i came in FSU i was top dressed. But in fact, the second travel (i don't want to display details) it costs me a restaurant's bill of 450 $. The girl, who knew probably a lot about clothes, asked me at a moment, your coat, is a Cavalli ?
My real answer : yes.
Second answer : yes, i bought it in discount
third answer : yes, i bought it in discount for 35% of the price.
Fourth answer : yes, i like clothes and i find discount or second hand brand clothes.
Fifth answer : yes, i like clothes and i find discount or second hand brand clothes but i'm not rich because tatata tatata.........
Sixth answer : no, it's a copy honey.

As you imagine i couldn't say no more than  "yes". (or perhaps the sixth  ;D 8) )

So because you have beautiful clothes you are surely "RICH" (i translate quickly but a lot of girls can think in this manner). PROBLEM (because what you wear is the only "palpable" measure of what you earn, and, in particular : WATCHES)

Where are we going ?

So must i come like dressed like a motor mechanic ?

Next post i propose you to show you how i've decided to manage this problem.



 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 13, 2011, 01:21:48 AM
 Yesterday i was hanging up in a business party.
There was a top HB, 21-24, tall, blond, high heels (living in USA with her mother, dentist, sometimes topmodel). She was the more beautiful. Guess what ? She is from Belarus.

Three western women (in their fourties/all above 7+/8) i know very well, spent a part of their evening looking at the young ones, criticizing them.
And one of the three started to tell me the girl from Belarus is probably an escort girl and tatati and tatata.
You know what fellows ? I'm tired of these women.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 13, 2011, 12:01:11 PM
Energy 40 %
Self confidence 66 %
Seduction training 60 %
Sport training : 30  %
D-8

So last time i was writing along clothes' problems.
How to be dressed like a motor mechanic.
Oh  :cluebat:

Sorry i mean, well dressed but not a bunch of tag saying : i'm DG, I'm Kenzo, I'm Dior, I'm Lacroix, I'm Cavalli, I'm Armani, I'm Versace, I'm T Mugler,  I'm Dad's brand with a full wallet of bucks.

A non brand leather jacket. When girls touch it, they absolutely want to continue, and if possible to sleep with it. Always slight smell of leather when come in contact. And slim fit of course.

Our number 1 (just to list, not because it's my preference)
(don't imagine the jacket is B Tornade : it's just the hanger)

(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/K:%5CDisque%20amovible%5CcuirJacket.jpg)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 14, 2011, 12:14:25 AM
Today our mission : shopping.
I need to find a jean, few cheap T-shirt and if possible an inexpensive BLUE jacket.
Number 2 a black jacket, fit slighty large so you can wear a thin polo neck sweater underneath ( number 3)
(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/c:%5Cimperialblack.jpg)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 14, 2011, 12:19:58 AM
Oups a little problem of control with photos, sorry. :wallbash:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 14, 2011, 12:28:05 AM
About the third part (the THIRD part, i don't want to put all details of my private life (part1 / part 2) of my ad :
I ask to a translator who speaks french that i know from Kharkov to translate a new edition.
Again i thank Aloe for the work done  :flowers: Aloe, she checked this one and even if it's NOT the exact meaning of what i want to write in my native language, it seems to be this one is acceptable.

Я мечтаю о тебе с первого дня нашей встречи во Франции: я возьму тебя за
руку и мы будем путешествовать вместе по горам. Потом мы увидим восход
солнца. Я приглашу тебя на обед сразу над озером с разноцветными витражами
и красивым видом на местность. После мы возьмем каное, чтобы добраться до
середины озера. Мы будем вместе плавать и если ты будешь хорошо себя вести,
я намажу твои плечи солнцезащитным кремом (только если ты окажешься
действительно очень милой).Перед ужином я заберу тебя, прежде, чем мы пойдем
в маленький замок в горах около леса. Мы пойдем в теплый ресторанчик, чтобы
отведать традиционной французской еды и расслабимся около камина и
нескольких кошек, которые будут ходить вокруг тебя и мурлыкать, если ты
почешешь их. Если ты действительно романтик, мы могли бы погулять в лесу за
замком, послушать шепот ветра между деревьями, но я должен лучше тебя
узнать, чтобы предложить это, потому что там темно и я не знаю, что может
случиться с тобой, а в друг ты опасная женщина. Ты можешь попытаться
поцеловать меня в ушко, самую чувствительную зону. Это то, что произойдет в
первый день. О втором спроси меня.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 14, 2011, 12:29:48 AM
Your clothes did not cost you $450 for a restaurant bill.  It was your decision to let the girl manipulate you.  Like others have said, say you do not like the menu and go somewhere else.  It's really your choice if you are the "real man"; you have to put your foot down and say no.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 14, 2011, 05:06:37 AM
Perhaps you are right but the truth is probably not so simple.

I'v spent 10 evenings with this girls and it was the last evening of my second travel.

We were having an affair and she had bring me in a very romantical place (i remember one time she scheduled a promenade in a beautiful park wich cost nothing) near to the Dnepr, on a boat.
Do you think really if i was capable of studying the menu and the prices in cyrillic knowing absolutely nothing of this language, in the darkness, and before entering in the restaurant  ?
And i was not knowing that prices of fish are going by 100g, so of course when i saw prices on the menu inside the restaurant i was thinking that the bill will be reasonnable, probably a little high (i mean in this decor it will be perhaps maximum100-150$), remember it was our last dinner.

I asked a special dish, not knowing in fact there is lobster with the dish (wich of course increased the price in an outstanding proportion). She asked exactly the same dish as me, after i had choiced.

Yes she was into me, perhaps immature, a little weird perhaps, one year and half after i always asking myself some questions AND of course i think about my mystakes, my inexperience (like all newbie), bad advices given. Believe me, I spent more than one year to analyse the girl, but MORE about my demeanor and my OWN immaturity during the beginning  of such endeavor in this so difficult adventure, full of pitfalls.
You are perhaps right but i have found valuable reasons to excuse her (but i'm not excusing her core immaturity)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 14, 2011, 05:31:37 AM
Our item 4
An inexpensive T-Shirt, perfect with one.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 14, 2011, 06:41:33 AM
FIVE : Now a pair of killer shoes, brown color, damned where are the jackets ?
I have two, but brand, a Kenzo and Lacroix, must i cut the tag with scissors, making a hole in the fabric ?  :cluebat:

Perhaps i have a solution (scratching his head)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 14, 2011, 06:57:04 AM
I cannot resist to show (even if it will stay at home) the inside of a Lacroix jacket, wich is far above of all i see for this sort of suit. In fact you dream to wear the inside outside, so it's beautiful.  :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 15, 2011, 01:11:05 AM
...And i was not knowing that prices of fish are going by 100g, so of course when i saw prices on the menu inside the restaurant i was thinking that the bill will be reasonnable, probably a little high (i mean in this decor it will be perhaps maximum100-150$), remember it was our last dinner...

This is slightly  :offtopic:  from the main point of Patagonie's thread, but I got caught like this when buying an ice-cream at the food court in the mall under the Maidan in Kyiv.  I saw the price of 10 UAH, which seemed OK for what looked like nice ice-cream.  I couldn't believe what happened next - the girl put a couple of scoops into the cone, then WEIGHED IT, and told me that the price was 12.20 UAH!  Of course I wasn't worried about an extra couple of Hryvnia (and it was delicious), but I've never seen anyone charge for an ice-cream this way, even in Russia.  I had no idea that the 10 UAH was for xx grams!
 
I had had experience of food being weighed in Russia (quite often, but without extra costs), and it seemed amusing at the time that the pancake restaurant where I regularly ate in St Petersburg made such a big production out of ensuring that I got EXACTLY 250 grams of this, and 300 grams of that, and 150 grams of something else!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 15, 2011, 07:22:13 AM
Anotherkiwi, thank you for your post, it's just not off topic, i've also meet the same type of problem in restaurant of fish in Sardegna.

Now everybody  remember of this killer brown pair of shoes ? And the two jackets we have to leave at home ?
Ok here it is : SIX. Not a coat, in wood, a reefing-jacket. Sweet inside and warm.
You can wear open,
close,
very close.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 15, 2011, 07:23:50 AM
SIX : look the detail to close the inside pocket

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 15, 2011, 07:30:05 AM
Item SEVEN : what happens if the weather is very cold, or too warm for this reefing jacket :
This the solution : you can wear underneath or by oneself
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 15, 2011, 07:32:57 AM
ITEM EIGHT :

If the weather is upper 25 our very very very very very very sweet shirt. If by inadvertency a lady touchs you she will never leave you  :luv:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 15, 2011, 07:37:14 AM
And last thing to show you what are coordinated clothes (but i will no use this one as i will bring with me a maximum of two shirts, and not this one, because it's a little  TOO much) :
The state of the art is to let the girl believe that you woke up the morning, picked up your clothes and three minutes later "voilà" you are well dressed. Three minutes and it's done. Just a sort of divine action  :P who helps you because God loves you so much. How lucky are you  8) .
NB : this damned iphone's camera enlarges photos  :thumbsdown: , i'm not so strong !
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 15, 2011, 08:20:18 AM
Item NINE
Killer shoes, by itselves the highpoint of the show.
I will attach the photos of the clothes around this pair later because i let it at the dry-cleaner.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 15, 2011, 02:10:44 PM
Energy 40 %
Self confidence 72 %
Seduction training 0 %
Sport training : 65  %
D-6
Those last days i was emotionnaly managing disappointements wich i don't want display here. So my energy is not too high, and for the moment, few days before the take off, i'm so so excited.
I know me, i'm capable to game with a low level of energy, so i don't worry.
I think for the moment i'm playing, on the paper, a perfect party. Agency 1 believes that i will leave Dnepropetrovsk after one week. They don't know in fact that i will stay 10 additionals days. So of course they will do their best to schedule meetings  from saturday to wednesday.
Wich is perfect, so i can chain up how i want. Date 2 for screened girls of agency 1. Restart new meetings with agency 2. Go to Kharkov to have new meetings.
Girls of agency 1 i guess don't know me because i will be very atonished if they have receveid or read my whole introduction.
Interesting : i will try to ask to each girl wich type of information the agency will have been given her.
Girls from free site of Dnepropetrovsk seem to confirm their interest and i pull the trigger by proposing to the teacher a meeting sunday in the evening for a diner. She is the girl who i "know" the more and i think we are enough comfortable to offer her such event.
The second gave me her phone number very quickly and easily so it's not a problem although her oral english is very low.
The last of the free site, from Kharkov, the one for who my radar is up, had not given any news for 5 days. I'm not in hurry for this one so relax.

I'm for the moment more excited to begin to learn russian in Dnepropetrovsk with a teacher. And by myself i try to learn alphabet and vocabulary. Iphone applications  are really amazing. I think it will be really funny to say few words with those ladies and surely that will give us a lot of fun.
Now i can say that my thinking has changed about language. There is no doubt that the top of the top is too be good/fluent in russian. I have no doubt with this now. And i have the willing to learn. I realized, learning english, how it opens me big options. For my job of course, and with russian it will be the same in the future.
I know too that i've started my search almost since two years and honestly i think that i will not change of target till i success. I'm convinced of the quality of those women and, the numerous local women i had dated during my non engagement time with a FSU woman, haven't convince me to consider them for the moment as good challengers. I've not met such challenger in my country althought however i'm not, by philosophy, opposed to get married with a local women. But this didn't happen for the moment.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 15, 2011, 08:29:22 PM
Item TEN
One of these black pairs of shoes. It would depend on the throusers and in particular of the width of the bottom of the trouser.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 15, 2011, 08:40:53 PM
It's not finish yet, but fellows, you must memorize that during the meeting a girl focus in general at least on one of these three things, so each time you meet a lady, OR the same lady, you must emphasize on : shoes, your ass and your watch. If she notices only one of these three things, good point for you.  :couple:

I think now for shoes you have a clear idea of what i mean (missing one pair however).
The exercise is also to wear 15 differents outfits (because i have 15 days of potential meetings) and to pack in only one suitcase of maximum 20 kg (minus the weight of the suitcase and the bottle for my previous interpreter = 14/15 kg).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: nicknick on May 16, 2011, 12:31:57 AM
It's not finish yet, but fellows, you must memorize that during the meeting a girl focus in general at least on one of these three things, so each time you meet a lady, OR the same lady, you must emphasize on : shoes, your ass and your watch. If she notices only one of these three things, good point for you. 

I think now for shoes you have a clear idea of what i mean (missing one pair however).
The exercise is also to wear 15 differents outfits (because i have 15 days of potential meetings) and to pack up in only one suitcase of maximum 20 kg (minus the weight of the suitcase and the bottle for my previous interpreter = 14/15 kg).

Patagonie,

I'm sorry to sound rather negative but you do appear to be obsessing over what seem to be very small details.

While I would agree that it is always helpful to dress appropriately, I really would suggest that you don't need to take 15 different outfits for a trip that is lasting 15 days.

Also, while it is important to have clean shoes that are well shined, anything beyond this, I would suggest, is not really going to get you anywhere and if all you can do when you meet a woman is to:-

Quote
you must emphasize on : shoes, your ass and your watch. If she notices only one of these three things, good point for you. 

then, in my opinion, you are missing out on the whole point of meeting with women - in any country - which is for each person to get to know more of the character and personality of the other.

In your posts so far, you seem to be more concerned with how beautiful YOU will look in your clothes rather than anything else.

Just my opinion on things.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 16, 2011, 01:41:41 AM
Patagonie,

I'm sorry to sound rather negative but you do appear to be obsessing over what seem to be very small details.

While I would agree that it is always helpful to dress appropriately, I really would suggest that you don't need to take 15 different outfits for a trip that is lasting 15 days.

You missed something. I don't take 15 differents outfits, i will wear 15 differents outfits, wich is different because it is the role of the combos. Combos are the way to wear many outfits with not so many clothes.

Also, while it is important to have clean shoes that are well shined, anything beyond this, I would suggest, is not really going to get you anywhere and if all you can do when you meet a woman is to:-

I don't understand at all these sentences. but don't worry for me, for the moment i know i'm going to meet 12 ladies (probably all real).

then, in my opinion, you are missing out on the whole point of meeting with women - in any country - which is for each person to get to know more of the character and personality of the other.

As those meetings doesn't happen for the moment i can focus of what i want and as i enjoy clothes, i'm focusing on clothes for the moment. If you don't find any value about these clothing posts and don't appreciated, don't look at it.

In your posts so far, you seem to be more concerned with how beautiful YOU will look in your clothes rather than anything else.

See above

Just my opinion on things.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 16, 2011, 02:03:57 AM
I have an advice for you NickNick.
Drop this nickname if you use with girls, because in my language it means
FuckFuck. (it depends on wich sort of meetings you like  :rolleyes: )
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 16, 2011, 02:52:23 AM
ha ha!!

I think to "nick" something means to steal it, in British slang.

Cockney slang:

"Nice legs, but shame about the boat race"

let's see if anybody knows what that means.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 16, 2011, 02:56:32 AM
It does seem like more of a fashion report than a trip report, but it's yours so I guess you want to present what you want to present.  I hope the ladies you meet like your fashion and more importantly like your personality and looks.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: nicknick on May 16, 2011, 03:20:33 AM
I think to "nick" something means to steal it, in British slang.

Yes and it can also mean ''condition'' as in ''that car is in good nick''.

But, the term ''nick nick'' actually comes from a British comedian from the 1980s called Jim Davidson.  It was a derogatory term he used about policemen and their attitudes in those days.




I have an advice for you NickNick.
Drop this nickname if you use with girls, because in my language it means
FuckFuck. (it depends on wich sort of meetings you like  :rolleyes: )

patagonie,

Why should I be concerned that an internet user name on a website dealing with Russia sounds somewhat similar to a French slang term?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 16, 2011, 03:23:23 AM
Yes and it can also mean ''condition'' as in ''that car is in good nick''.

But, the term ''nick nick'' actually comes from a British comedian from the 1980s called Jim Davidson.  It was a derogatory term he used about policemen and their attitudes in those days.




patagonie,

Why should I be concerned that an internet user name on a website dealing with Russia sounds somewhat similar to a French slang term?

I had a British friend whose last name was Bullock.  Apparently that means "pig" and when he got stopped by the police and he told them his name, they thought that he was trying to be funny!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: nicknick on May 16, 2011, 03:34:21 AM
I had a British friend whose last name was Bullock.  Apparently that means "pig" and when he got stopped by the police and he told them his name, they thought that he was trying to be funny!

Well, bullock is a young bull.  But it also sounds VERY similar to an English swear word with the same, although perhaps stronger, meaning as ''balls''.

Definitely not the sort of thing you want to say to the police.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mendeleyev on May 16, 2011, 04:34:11 AM
No offense, but my reaction was exactly like Nicknick, who by the way is no stranger to this land having lived in the FSU. You could learn much by asking for more of his advice.

My thought in pages 1 was that this was very weird, then in pages 2-3 figured you for a Metrosexual who is more obsessed, and I use that term judiciously, about how you look than about your character and personality. There is a Metrosexual culture in the FSU but most of those guys seem to have solely platonic relationships with girls, perhaps one night adventures, but rarely marriage. A RW wants to have the comfort that her husband will dress professionally of course, but not to obsession and she wants him to be more concerned about providing for her and your children than with how many leather jackets and pairs of pointy shoes you possess.

My wife is no slouch and dresses nicely. Recently on a trip outside the country of about 14 days duration she took no more than 4 outfits and 2 pair of shoes, including what she wore traveling, one of the outfits being a formal dress for the evenings when galleries would host evening events for her art. As Nick advised, 15 outfits for 15 days, each of such great detail, is way over the top. It will be noticed but perhaps not as positively as you desire.

I do sort of understand your point on the watch and shoes. My wife says that those things on me must not be noticed negatively. If the shoes are unpolished and in disrepair of course that reflects on a lack of professionalism. Same idea with the watch, looking appropriate for my position but not for displaying wealth or status.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 16, 2011, 04:47:28 AM
No offense, but my reaction was exactly like Nicknick, who by the way is no stranger to this land having lived in the FSU. You could learn much by asking for more of his advice.

My thought in pages 1 was that this was very weird, then in pages 2-3 figured you for a Metrosexual who is more obsessed, and I use that term judiciously, about how you look than about your character and personality. There is a Metrosexual culture in the FSU but most of those guys seem to have solely platonic relationships with girls, perhaps one night adventures, but rarely marriage. A RW wants to have the comfort that her husband will dress professionally of course, but not to obsession and she wants him to be more concerned about providing for her and your children than with how many leather jackets and pairs of pointy shoes you possess.

My wife is no slouch and dresses nicely. Recently on a trip outside the country of about 14 days duration she took no more than 4 outfits and 2 pair of shoes, including what she wore traveling, one of the outfits being a formal dress for the evenings when galleries would host evening events for her art. As Nick advised, 15 outfits for 15 days, each of such great detail, is way over the top. It will be noticed but perhaps not as positively as you desire.

I do sort of understand your point on the watch and shoes. My wife says that those things on me must not be noticed negatively. If the shoes are unpolished and in disrepair of course that reflects on a lack of professionalism. Same idea with the watch, looking appropriate for my position but not for displaying wealth or status.

I was thinking the exact same thing.  so much obsession about his clothes, but not much seems to be happening about his character and personality and how his character and personality can win a lady's heart.  And what is seduction training??  Please enlighten what your concept of this is!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 16, 2011, 05:12:38 AM
Cockney slang:"Nice legs, but shame about the boat race"
let's see if anybody knows what that means.
Drinking contest ;)?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 16, 2011, 05:17:08 AM
Drinking contest ;) ?

No, I was told that it means "shame about the face". 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 16, 2011, 06:01:35 AM
No, I was told that it means "shame about the face".
Only in the sense that it's from a song of the same title performed by the Monks, an English punk band of the 1970s:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfEsmXbjcygCNGz61obmHuGqDouL9rM7weYitkR3Q[/youtube]
Lyrics: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/m/monkslyrics/nicelegsshameaboutthefacelyrics.html.

Cockneys have/had a hard-to-understand type of humour involving the replacement of words with other, rhyming words, which basically works only within the span of the specific utterance  - without universally accepted meaning.   

Well, bullock is a young bull.  But it also sounds VERY similar to an English swear word with the same, although perhaps stronger, meaning as ''balls''.
I.e. "bollocks". BTW:
Quote
Bullock (in British English), a castrated male bovine animal of any age

In 1993 an Italian company developed and sold the Bullock  Defender:
(http://www.bullock.it/img/img-family.jpg)
Advertised as "L'antifurto con le palle" - the car antitheft device with balls ;D.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: nicknick on May 16, 2011, 06:06:02 AM
Drinking contest ;) ?


No, I was told that it means "shame about the face".


Patagonie,

Sorry to hijack your thread with British slang.

Actually, both are correct.  In the context that Rubicon used ''boat race'' it does mean face. 

However, in a different context ''boat race'' can also be used to describe a type of team based drinking contest.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 16, 2011, 06:28:06 AM
Sorry to hijack your thread with British slang.
More interesting than a boring list of "packets" and pointed "ger-offs" ;).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 16, 2011, 06:31:48 AM
More interesting than a boring list of "packets" and pointed "ger-offs" ;) .

 :thumbsup: LOL!!!!!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Jumper on May 16, 2011, 07:39:59 AM
Good luck Patagonie..

 The idea is to met someone that is right for you,  and you being right  for them...
it's your intro letter and your style..

It shouldn't be surprising if it doesn't match others,
the world would be a pretty boring place if we were all clones.
 :D


that said

Quote
It's not finish yet, but fellows, you must memorize that during the meeting a girl focus in general at least on one of these three things, so each time you meet a lady, OR the same lady, you must emphasize on : shoes, your ass and your watch. If she notices only one of these three things, good point for you

 :whew:

 I'm glad you stated that it's ok if a woman only notices  one of those points ,
as i'm not much into shoes, or style, and I never ever wear a watch,even if wearing a   suit. Yes a fashion no-no,  and i simply don't care. :-X


just illustrates who is *right* for us, or us for them ,
is highly variable, a good thing!


 I'd be interested in the general  traits you look for  in a woman?
What would make her a good fit for you and your life, and what about her would
make you  a good fit in hers?
The specifics ,not the *good person , loving,caring , honest* parts.


as  small example:
Beyond the usual, good character, sense of humor, patient and tolerant,
 traits that she'd simply have to have,  to put up with me long term..  :P

  I need a woman who is a bit energetic and willing to jump into about anything ..
easily ditch the make up and truly enjoy going  diving ,jet skiing or hiking in the big natural parks here or skiing in the mountains.. one who enjoys the outdoors and appreciates its beauty.
 That certainly doesn't mean she can't also have many other interests,,
whether that be classical music, opera,or  enjoying a good restaurant, dancing, shopping etc.
 It's just that someone who wouldn't really enjoy some simpler things in nature,
a day and night spent  in some amazingly scenic place just hanging out,,
 or some active outdoor activities,  wouldn't be a good fit in my life.
Granted, she doesn't have to bungee jump, or anything.. ;D
 but she can't expect me not to!!!!
Basically a tom boy who doesn't take that too far ,retaining her femininity.
While initially and short term its quite easy to attract someone, it's much harder to find long term.


  Despite the guys giving you  a bit of grief , about the concentration on clothing, 
realistically probably far more FSU women would appreciate this sense of fashion ..
than a man like me who could absolutely care less about it.


So again good luck!!



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 16, 2011, 09:12:37 AM
I had a British friend whose last name was Bullock.  Apparently that means "pig" and when he got stopped by the police and he told them his name, they thought that he was trying to be funny!
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 16, 2011, 10:31:14 AM
More interesting than a boring list of "packets" and pointed "ger-offs" ;) .
My english skills are not so advanced than yours, what are pointed "ger-offs" Sandro ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 16, 2011, 12:07:15 PM
Good luck Patagonie..

 The idea is to met someone that is right for you,  and you being right  for them...
it's your intro letter and your style..

It shouldn't be surprising if it doesn't match others,
the world would be a pretty boring place if we were all clones.
 :D


that said

 :whew:

 I'm glad you stated that it's ok if a woman only notices  one of those points ,
as i'm not much into shoes, or style, and I never ever wear a watch,even if wearing a   suit. Yes a fashion no-no,  and i simply don't care. :-X


just illustrates who is *right* for us, or us for them ,
is highly variable, a good thing!


 I'd be interested in the general  traits you look for  in a woman?
What would make her a good fit for you and your life, and what about her would
make you  a good fit in hers?
The specifics ,not the *good person , loving,caring , honest* parts.


as  small example:
Beyond the usual, good character, sense of humor, patient and tolerant,
 traits that she'd simply have to have,  to put up with me long term..  :P

  I need a woman who is a bit energetic and willing to jump into about anything ..
easily ditch the make up and truly enjoy going  diving ,jet skiing or hiking in the big natural parks here or skiing in the mountains.. one who enjoys the outdoors and appreciates its beauty.
 That certainly doesn't mean she can't also have many other interests,,
whether that be classical music, opera,or  enjoying a good restaurant, dancing, shopping etc.
 It's just that someone who wouldn't really enjoy some simpler things in nature,
a day and night spent  in some amazingly scenic place just hanging out,,
 or some active outdoor activities,  wouldn't be a good fit in my life.
Granted, she doesn't have to bungee jump, or anything.. ;D
 but she can't expect me not to!!!!
Basically a tom boy who doesn't take that too far ,retaining her femininity.
While initially and short term its quite easy to attract someone, it's much harder to find long term.


  Despite the guys giving you  a bit of grief , about the concentration on clothing, 
realistically probably far more FSU women would appreciate this sense of fashion ..
than a man like me who could absolutely care less about it.


So again good luck!!
Hello AJ
Interesting exercise

I think the most important for me is someone honest and of integrity. I think i'm searching for a lady who can be intelligent, i mean an emotionnal intelligence. Because to be communicative and patient is really a key to success in such endeavor, and to build a couple in general.
The life is not a continuous period of appearance (and clothes  :ROFL: ) I mean, yes, from my childhood i have a sense of the beauty across what make a poetry, a painting, a car design "special". I can enjoy at first glance in a photo what is the enchantment of a sunset being on the top of a mountain. Or in the real life  a woman brushing her hair, a girl pronoucing your first name with this so delicious accent and sensual voice, the harmony in color of a studied inside's house, and so on... Because a part of myself is an artist.

I think for me it's no important if my beloved is an artist or a competitor, i can come with most of the time if she likes. By myself i have had many many interests as i'm someone very curious. So activities, of every kind, are not an issue. I have both sides : i mean i can be strongly intellectual and make very simples things. In fact i'm proud of things made with intelligence but best memories are very often simples things. Because i'm under the armor highly emotionnal. But i'm not sure that i need someone as emotionnal as me.

I'm someone faithful with my relatives. I mean with people for who i have a strong friendship and women for who i have strongs feelings. But it needs time to happen I do it only when i have build my trust with them. My relatives can rely on me
Women, for what they have said to me, feel secured with me. In a materialistic way i can offer them a very secure life (wich not mean rich). I'm a man who thinks and schedules on a very long term. So i want my wife and my childrens to be protected now, tomorrow and if i die prematurealy. She can work is she want, but it's not needed and we know that is not realistic in the first or two first years in general.

I'm  a very tender man when i have feelings and so i my beloved is not "touchy" it would be a pain for me. I'm also very caring, toughtful with FSU women. I like to surprise in a positive manner by making little gifts, i prefer to show often (i mean in a strong relation) by my presence rather by the thickness of my wallet)
I'm a very social guy and i really like people. But i can spend a week alone with a pile of books  and practicing outdoors activities too.
My bad side is i can be velvet and like steel too, and sometimes not really patient.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 16, 2011, 12:19:18 PM
I was thinking the exact same thing.  so much obsession about his clothes, but not much seems to be happening about his character and personality and how his character and personality can win a lady's heart.  And what is seduction training??  Please enlighten what your concept of this is!

Hi Rubicon.
Seduction training it the time granted in social interaction with women.
A lot of guys lacking of this think that FSU will be a good solution to solve this sort of problems. In my opinion, it's better to improve himself rater than rely on someone.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 16, 2011, 12:20:49 PM
Hello AJ
Interesting exercise

I think the most important for me is someone honest and of integrity. I think i'm searching for a lady who can be intelligent, i mean an emotionnal intelligence. Because to be communicative and patient is really a key to success in such endeavor, and to build a couple in general.
The life is not a continuous period of appearance (and clothes  :ROFL: ) I mean, yes, from my childhood i have a sense of the beauty across what make a poetry, a painting, a car design "special". I can enjoy at first glance in a photo what is the enchantment of a sunset being on the top of a mountain. Or in the real life  a woman brushing her hair, a girl pronoucing your first name with this so delicious accent and sensual voice, the harmony in color of a studied inside's house, and so on... Because a part of myself is an artist.

I think for me it's no important if my beloved is an artist or a competitor, i can come with most of the time if she likes. By myself i have had many many interests as i'm someone very curious. So activities, of every kind, are not an issue. I have both sides : i mean i can be strongly intellectual and make very simples things. In fact i'm proud of things made with intelligence but best memories are very often simples things. Because i'm under the armor highly emotionnal. But i'm not sure that i need someone as emotionnal as me.

I'm someone faithful with my relatives. I mean with people for who i have a strong friendship and women for who i have strongs feelings. But it needs time to happen I do it only when i have build my trust with them. My relatives can rely on me
Women, for what they have said to me, feel secured with me. In a materialistic way i can offer them a very secure life (wich not mean rich). I'm a man who thinks and schedules on a very long term. So i want my wife and my childrens to be protected now, tomorrow and if i die prematurealy. She can work is she want, but it's not needed and we know that is not realistic in the first or two first years in general.

I'm  a very tender man when i have feelings and so i my beloved is not "touchy" it would be a pain for me. I'm also very caring, toughtful with FSU women. I like to surprise in a positive manner by making little gifts, i prefer to show often (i mean in a strong relation) by my presence rather by the thickness of my wallet)
I'm a very social guy and i really like people. But i can spend a week alone with a pile of books  and practicing outdoors activities too.
My bad side is i can be velvet and like steel too, and sometimes not really patient.

VERY GOOD!!

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 16, 2011, 12:34:42 PM
 :welcome:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 16, 2011, 03:05:02 PM
Yes, in this TR section Patagonie talks more about clothes than others have.

But, so what?

I say let each person write about what they want to.

Those who  don't like it at all can just stop reading the thread.

Others, like myself, may not be all that interested in the clothes aspect, so we just skim the posts until we find something we want to read in more detail.

Like many other AM, I don't really care too much about my looks.
I am not a slob in my dress, but comfort always rules.
I wouldn't be caught dead in a pair of pointed shoes that might constrict my toes, or tight pants that constrict my 'equipment', etc.

Interestingly, when I was with the UW in Turkey for the month of March, she once commented that I would attract a lot more women if I dressed better.  But attracting more women is not a problem that I have.  The biggest problem is trying to sort through the ones that I do attract.  I don't need more in the mix.

Note: I decided to toy with this gal a little bit;  so I replied to her: "OK, I think I will take your advice and start dressing much better."  She quickly realized her mistake and said:  "No, don't do it."

And, I think it is a little bit gratifying to know that these hot mamas decided to be with me, even when my clothing does not match up with Patagonie.   :)

As a side note:  It is similar to a marketing consultant I know in the business world.  He comes into meetings looking like he is living in a dumpster.   The new clients really give each other looks and I can see they are thinking of ways to cut the presentation short.  But this guy is so competent that within a few sentences he has everyone on the edge of their seats listening to his words.  He wouldn't admit it to me; but I strongly suspect he does this deliberately as it gives him a sort of rush to continually start way in the hole, and then win over people.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 16, 2011, 03:38:39 PM
My english skills are not so advanced than yours, what are pointed "ger-offs" Sandro ?
That was a more elaborate example of Cockney humour based on non-rhyming word substitution:

ger-off! ---> get off! ---> shoo! ---> shoe  ;)

A line by Ronnie Corbett of The Two Ronnies British comedian duo:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ae/Tworonnies.JPG/220px-Tworonnies.JPG)
Ronnie Corbett  & Ronnie Barker

"Dress warmly and take a walk in the fog": Wrap up (shut up) and get lost.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 16, 2011, 09:08:40 PM
Yes, in this TR section Patagonie talks more about clothes than others have.

But, so what?

I say let each person write about what they want to.

Those who  don't like it at all can just stop reading the thread.

Others, like myself, may not be all that interested in the clothes aspect, so we just skim the posts until we find something we want to read in more detail.

Like many other AM, I don't really care too much about my looks.
I am not a slob in my dress, but comfort always rules.
I wouldn't be caught dead in a pair of pointed shoes that might constrict my toes, or tight pants that constrict my 'equipment', etc.

Interestingly, when I was with the UW in Turkey for the month of March, she once commented that I would attract a lot more women if I dressed better.  But attracting more women is not a problem that I have.  The biggest problem is trying to sort through the ones that I do attract.  I don't need more in the mix.

Note: I decided to toy with this gal a little bit;  so I replied to her: "OK, I think I will take your advice and start dressing much better."  She quickly realized her mistake and said:  "No, don't do it."

And, I think it is a little bit gratifying to know that these hot mamas decided to be with me, even when my clothing does not match up with Patagonie.   :)

As a side note:  It is similar to a marketing consultant I know in the business world.  He comes into meetings looking like he is living in a dumpster.   The new clients really give each other looks and I can see they are thinking of ways to cut the presentation short.  But this guy is so competent that within a few sentences he has everyone on the edge of their seats listening to his words.  He wouldn't admit it to me; but I strongly suspect he does this deliberately as it gives him a sort of rush to continually start way in the hole, and then win over people.
ManLooking, if you permit me
Just little precision : i can guarantee you that pointed shoes (all i show you) doesn't constrict me at all.  ;)
Like you my biggest challenge is now to sort amongst all the women i will meet. What a difficult exercise ! Big responsability !

About clothes. There are some precisions i want to bring. For what i've found is that often people wear clothes wich are not at their size. Second you must feel comfortable however. It's a rule, not only with clothes, but also in many issues of course. I mean, at my job, some guys in before their thirties have to wear a suit sometimes. They are like Mr Bean carrying  weightlifting, at first glance you are seing a sort of knight wearing a armor. Even if their suit almost fit themselves they are not comfortable with it.
It's why, of course, don't try to wear some clothes with wich you're not comfortable. It must be the continuity of your skin or you are playing a big turn off, quite the opposite.
Now, about your exemple, the question is why to bring some obstacleq with you on the way of success (enough difficult) ? Yes this guy is damned good, but he surely don't respect the dress code of a lot of companies, preventing him probably to be recruited by HR. There is always a middle path to find in live : i mean it's the same for clothes, too much can give a false sense of personnality and to push back people, as your guy (at first sight). Dressed like rubbish and ... you know what.... the same.
You can outpoint the rules when you have a strong personnality and bear your difference.
;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on May 17, 2011, 12:35:48 AM
Patagonie,
 
You being French, you should change your thread name from Operation White Panther to Operation Pink Panther!
 
Here's why:  :ROFL:
 
 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQAMvmi1Zwk&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQAMvmi1Zwk&feature=related)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 17, 2011, 02:37:32 AM
Very funny Natural.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 17, 2011, 02:44:59 AM
But i prefer white panther, rare, but not impossible to find. Pink Panther are more, ... cartoons material.  :D

White Panther, why such name ?

Panther : Feminine, dangerous, discreet, moving in a stylish way
White : color of versatility, cleanness of the soul, peace.

White Panther, full of pitfalls, awarding animal, wild adventure.
The sort of life, the sort of wife i want to be with.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 17, 2011, 02:53:38 AM
For this operation :
i want to know, by asking to the ladies, wich sort of informations agency1 will have given her. I'm curious about that.
I will check too how they look in comparison with the photos.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 17, 2011, 03:07:40 AM
About our 12 meetings, i've the pleasure to announce you that now it's 11  :clapping:

One of the girl of the free site is a scammer, probably a fat yuri seated somewhere in FSU.  :usd:

In fact it's very funny, normally you detect them fastly. But it's not so easy, a girl who contacted me, at first sight, seemed to be a scam too. But suddenly she became real, giving instantly her phone number, accepting that a russian girl i know call her, and also asking me to call her to hear my voice. So in fact you must be careful about who are the scammers, till they obviously ask money, wich sign their stupidity. Unfortunately for this one i try to communicate with her to tell that she lives very far from Dnepropetrovsk and it will be impossible to have a meeting.

As i like people i offered to a young women of Kiev to spend few hours with me at Borispol, having drinks and discussing (of what she want, so she can improve her french or her english. Just for the pleasure to be with and discuss. We will see.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 17, 2011, 05:47:20 AM
You know what ?
Sometimes things happen in the right time.
I was saying you that i had to fire one woman of the list 12-1 =11.

Guess what, i've just recieved a new mail from agency 1 = +2
So now we have 12 meetings (on 21) and one more with one of the free site.

I'm really happy because of the two additionnals ladies, one is of my top four initial list. And they updated her profile, her english has improved from level 2 to level 4 ( :clapping: ). She is probably around nine, i've little doubt about that.The starting common point is that she likes the cinema. Let's start with this connection.

So this week end promises to be interesting  :luv:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Lily on May 17, 2011, 06:40:51 AM
For this operation :
i want to know, by asking to the ladies, wich sort of informations agency1 will have given her. I'm curious about that.
I will check too how they look in comparison with the photos.

Please re-phrase your question if you would like us to provide some feedback. Sorry I did not understand what you ask about.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 17, 2011, 07:23:46 AM
Please re-phrase your question if you would like us to provide some feedback. Sorry I did not understand what you ask about.

Hello Lily
I work hard to improve my english but it seems to be that what i'm saying is not always clear  :-[

I would ask to the ladies, wich sort of informations would be given to them by agency1. I would know for example if agency1 would have sent her photos, the whole introduction. Or if agency1 would have call them only.

To summarize : in wich way agency1 would have contact ladies, and what sort of information had been given to her.

About photos my question is : is there a big difference between the photos and what they really look.

Is it clear ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 17, 2011, 08:29:43 AM
Lily, he did not mean to ask the ladies on this forum.

Patagonie meant he would ask the ladies he was meeting.

Patagonie, here is my suggested rewording.  But I have no certificate to do this rewording.   8)

I will ask the ladies that I meet, what information had been given to them by agency number 1.   I would like to know, for example,  if agency 1 had sent her my photos and my complete introduction letter.   Or if agency 1 had only called  them.

About their photos, an interesting question is :  will there be a big difference between the photos and what they really look like.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 17, 2011, 09:17:27 AM
Lily, he did not mean to ask the ladies on this forum.

Patagonie meant he would ask the ladies he was meeting.

Patagonie, here is my suggested rewording.  But I have no certificate to do this rewording.   8)

I will ask the ladies that I meet, what information had been given to them by agency number 1.   I would like to know, for example,  if agency 1 had sent her my photos and my complete introduction letter.   Or if agency 1 had only called  them.

About their photos, an interesting question is :  will there be a big difference between the photos and what they really look like.

ManLooking has understood the good meaning. Thank you ManLooking for reformulated my initial post.  :applaud:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Lily on May 17, 2011, 09:26:54 AM
My apologies for confusion!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 17, 2011, 02:13:15 PM
ITEM 11
fantastic black and white pair of shoes. You can wear with item 2, 3, 4

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 17, 2011, 02:19:55 PM
ITEM 12 pair of cufflink
Wear with a special white skirt very fit.
 You can joke with the lady, saying : when we will get married, i will cut the arrow just for your, just to keep the most important.
Or I need to wear two metal hearts because i don't find one who warm mine.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 17, 2011, 03:06:59 PM
 17/03/11

Blue Chocolate

Mon coeur brisé, dans sa cage en velours mauve.
Mon chagrin d'homme à fleur de jour.

L'ancre de ses yeux dans le courant,
se penchant,
dans la veine de ma peine.

I know the wedding

 
Le bruit des tambourins
et la peine de mon coeur qui vacille
dans le supraliminaire

 
Je pousse le Backfire en direction de Baïkonour
Je suis seul dans la nuit tandis que le bleu de tes yeux,
dans le cockpit de métal
crisse en direction du ciel


Come back tonight, she is a girl undercover
 and i cannot scream her name.
Je reprends la Biturbo et revêts mon costume de satin
Sweets days dans le secret des femmes
Do you know those so secrets days when the blue color
is so big that you cannot remember how to swim
Je tombe sur le répondeur, il fait froid dans mon coeur.
Do you know how to spell her name ?


Je démarre la FZR et le bruissement du moteur me rappelle que le vent du large,
la souvenance particulière des femmes,
peuvent à tout moment m'emporter.
Je veux être l'otage dans la clairière des fantasmes.


You should be chocolate and i will be your mate.


Le vent souffle dans la conque de l'espérance.
Je pleure dans l'immensité du soleil.
Tu me regardes,
 il fait jour,

je veux nager dans le lagon clair
et fondre à l'épicentre

For Blue Chocolate.

 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 01:52:02 AM
ITEM 13
You remember ITEM 9 (the blue shoes)
This is a simple T.shirt that you can wear with it, with a jeans
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 06:21:24 AM
ITEM14

Just a little poll :

Question A/ what is the price of this watch ?
Question B/ What ladies notice at first ?

I let you the microphone.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 18, 2011, 08:14:58 AM
Question A/ what is the price of this watch ?
€ 5?
Quote
Question B/ What ladies notice at first ?
The Eiffel Tower?


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on May 18, 2011, 08:23:41 AM
Wow that ad stinks "i am not serious about this" and raises a red flag the size of a little planet. Very unpleasant aftertase. First of all, all the talking about kissing your little ear, the most sensitive part, is kinda revolting, coming from a man you do not know yet. Second of all, just the fact that you wrote it and a woman read it, and when we read something we actually involuntarily imagine it, i just feel a little bit virtually raped for having imaginatory to have kissed your little ear, your most sensitive zone, eww, where is the barf icon?

I think it is unusual, and does looks "not being serious about marriage, only looking for fun," but i do not see the ad as repulsive. I think it's OK for anyone to write anything. If Patagonie likes his ear to be kissed, why not? He will attract the woman who likes to do it, and they both will be happy ever after. Let's not be over-puritan here. We are all normal live people. He has his preferences, let him have them. 
Also, let's not exaggerate. There is a big difference between being raped and being offered an ear to kiss. Maybe Patagonie has attractive ears  :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on May 18, 2011, 08:31:22 AM
ITEM 12 pair of cufflink
Wear with a special white skirt very fit.
 You can joke with the lady, saying : when we will get married, i will cut the arrow just for your, just to keep the most important.
Or I need to wear two metal hearts because i don't find one who warm mine.

Wow... Patagonie, I'm truly your fan now  :clapping:
(it must be "shirt", not "skirt" http://www.womanandhome.com/imageBank/cache/j/June-09-Main-fashion-WhiteSuit.jpg_e_bce45a078ee3b134b7a092a347cd4f40.jpg (http://www.womanandhome.com/imageBank/cache/j/June-09-Main-fashion-WhiteSuit.jpg_e_bce45a078ee3b134b7a092a347cd4f40.jpg))



Just a little poll :

Question A/ what is the price of this watch ?
Question B/ What ladies notice at first ?

I let you the microphone.
It looks like an relatively old watch to me, the strap is probably replaced and newer, but matches the watch. The first thing i notice is the frame of the watch, it's unusual.
The e-bay has newer, used quartz watch of the same brand for $12 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140542465722&hlp=false&rvr_id=233255451137&clk_rvr_id=233255451137&crlp=1_263602_304652&UA=M (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140542465722&hlp=false&rvr_id=233255451137&clk_rvr_id=233255451137&crlp=1_263602_304652&UA=M)*F%3F&GUID=9df635d712f0a0aa14548034ffdd4bac&itemid=140542465722&ff4=263602_304652

another one for EUR 9 http://cgi.ebay.fr/Montre-fantaisie-DOMI-dame-/250821121261?pt=FR_YO_BijouxMontres_Montres&hash=item3a661a94ed (http://cgi.ebay.fr/Montre-fantaisie-DOMI-dame-/250821121261?pt=FR_YO_BijouxMontres_Montres&hash=item3a661a94ed)
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 10:19:51 AM
Ok we have two very good applicants, let's others competitors play.
 :welcome:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 10:23:26 AM
Wow... Patagonie, I'm truly your fan now  :clapping:
(it must be "shirt", not "skirt" http://www.womanandhome.com/imageBank/cache/j/June-09-Main-fashion-WhiteSuit.jpg_e_bce45a078ee3b134b7a092a347cd4f40.jpg (http://www.womanandhome.com/imageBank/cache/j/June-09-Main-fashion-WhiteSuit.jpg_e_bce45a078ee3b134b7a092a347cd4f40.jpg))


 It looks like an relatively old watch to me, the strap is probably replaced and newer, but matches the watch. The first thing i notice is the frame of the watch, it's unusual.
The e-bay has newer, used quartz watch of the same brand for $12 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140542465722&hlp=false&rvr_id=233255451137&clk_rvr_id=233255451137&crlp=1_263602_304652&UA=M (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140542465722&hlp=false&rvr_id=233255451137&clk_rvr_id=233255451137&crlp=1_263602_304652&UA=M)*F%3F&GUID=9df635d712f0a0aa14548034ffdd4bac&itemid=140542465722&ff4=263602_304652

another one for EUR 9 http://cgi.ebay.fr/Montre-fantaisie-DOMI-dame-/250821121261?pt=FR_YO_BijouxMontres_Montres&hash=item3a661a94ed (http://cgi.ebay.fr/Montre-fantaisie-DOMI-dame-/250821121261?pt=FR_YO_BijouxMontres_Montres&hash=item3a661a94ed)

Yes thank you Mies, of course it's a shirt and not a skirt.

Perhaps, i mean, do you have the mobile number of http://www.womanandhome.com/imageBank/cache/j/June-09-Main-fashion-WhiteSuit.jpg_e_bce45a078ee3b134b7a092a347cd4f40.jpg (http://www.womanandhome.com/imageBank/cache/j/June-09-Main-fashion-WhiteSuit.jpg_e_bce45a078ee3b134b7a092a347cd4f40.jpg)) ?
Because next wednesday perhaps, i would be free.
Thank you because you now i'm a so poor lonesome cowboy lost in the wild, and i need a driver to return to LA next thursday.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 10:26:09 AM
AND NOW ESPECIALLY FOR MIES

so please all others, shut your eyes and jump of two posts.
It's only for Mies, if not,
                                    me -->  :deadhorse: <-- the others
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 10:35:09 AM
For Mies (only)  :flowers:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 10:55:08 AM
ITEM 14 and 15
ITEM 14 can be wear with item 9 (enlarged unfortunately), price of item 14
50 bucks
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on May 18, 2011, 10:58:27 AM
Thank you, Patagonie  :)

i have a jacket with fabric like that or very similar. I do not wear it often, but keep it in the closet to pet every one and then.. the color of yours is much better though :D
and the shirt.. ah.. :thumbsup:

I agree with your comments about the effect on women of touching a leather jacket. My personal "most attractive for touch apparel" were/are soft sweater/jacket. I don't know the exact name/type of the fabric, probably some combination of natural material and synthetic/microfiber. Grey in color and feels like a soft mice fur. When i see/touch it, i feel like my cat when he senses catnip, maybe a bit less violent  :D   For first/second date - totally irresistible.  8)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 18, 2011, 11:04:09 AM
(http://www.ferrell-lawfirm.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Image21-300x225.jpg)
Patagonie, I suppose you'll be using a poids lourd like this for your trip to Russia, n'est-ce pas :D?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 11:25:54 AM
(http://www.ferrell-lawfirm.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Image21-300x225.jpg)
Patagonie, I suppose you'll be using a poids lourd like this for your trip to Russia, n'est-ce pas :D ?

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
No in fact a black four wheels, 6 drives, composite carbon,
very limited edition. Special licence needed :
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Faux Pas on May 18, 2011, 11:34:39 AM
The man is a slave to fashion  :D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 11:44:43 AM
Thank you, Patagonie  :)

i have a jacket with fabric like that or very similar. I do not wear it often, but keep it in the closet to pet every one and then.. the color of yours is much better though :D
and the shirt.. ah.. :thumbsup:

Thank

I agree with your comments about the effect on women of touching a leather jacket. My personal "most attractive for touch apparel" were/are soft sweater/jacket. I don't know the exact name/type of the fabric, probably some combination of natural material and synthetic/microfiber. Grey in color and feels like a soft mice fur. When i see/touch it, i feel like my cat when he senses catnip, maybe a bit less violent  :D   For first/second date - totally irresistible.  8)

Higuys --> read CAREFULLY what a frank woman is saying : When i see/touch it, i feel like my cat when he senses catnip, maybe a bit less violent  :D   For first/second date - totally irresistible.  8)

Mies "combination of natural material and synthetic/microfiber", i agree i think the brown flower shirt i showed in the forum is made in such fabric, and it's the sweater i ever bought.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 11:48:59 AM
Mies, just to show detail (of course almost hidden with the jacket)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 12:00:11 PM
Guys, with such a shirt :
How to introduce you :

Two girls drinking champaign at a cocktail, you want to know them.

Hi, do you want to fly with me tonight ?
Waiting one sec, the finger pointed under the jacket, showing the first butterfly.

Girls : smile
In fact i have many (opening more your jacket)
This one is Tony, the other black Jerry
And the roses one are Amanda and Tania,
The problem is Amanda and Tania are very jealous, and tatati and tatata....

Make your own story, cause i'm tired tonight.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on May 18, 2011, 12:10:03 PM
Patagonie, while I like when men look stylish and cheesy, especially young men, but my advice would be: do not overdo with your style in FSU, otherwise you risk to look gay and get attention that you probably would not expect  :)


It is nice that you show what you are even through your apparel, it is important to meet a woman who accepts you for who you are.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Daveman on May 18, 2011, 12:13:12 PM
(http://www.ferrell-lawfirm.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Image21-300x225.jpg)Patagonie, I suppose you'll be using a poids lourd like this for your trip to Russia, n'est-ce pas :D ?


LoL!! does seem like he will NEED it!  ;D




The man is a slave to fashion  :D 


Indeed... but he'll definitely turn some heads with those threads...  really dig the shoes. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 12:26:33 PM
Patagonie, while I like when men look stylish and cheesy, especially young men, but my advice would be: do not overdo with your style in FSU, otherwise you risk to look gay and get attention that you probably would not expect  :)


It is nice that you show what you are even through your apparel, it is important to meet a woman who accepts you for who you are.
Yes i know but i absolutely don't take care, i have no problem at all of course with my identity. And women understand quickly wich sort of guy they meet.
Getting attention, expecting a type of behavior of people i don't know are out of  my concerns. With time anyways you cannot really lie in front of the mirror of love.
The most important is to be comfortable with your style, it's why when someone, yes, overdo wich is not natural for him, so he seems strange. IN my opinion women are really more open on this issue rather than men.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on May 18, 2011, 12:29:05 PM
Yes i know but i absolutely don't take care...
The most important is to be comfortable with your style...

That's right. Keep your positive attitude!  :) If you are comfortable your true partner will be comfortable too.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 12:31:57 PM
That's right. Keep your positive attitude!  :) If you are comfortable your true partner will be comfortable too.
Thank you. And it's true, you are absolutely right.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on May 18, 2011, 01:05:27 PM
the brown flower shirt i showed in the forum is made in such fabric
item 7 looks like the closest resemblance to that fabric type. I was going to write in the previous posts that this this item will be very useful for you :D but forgot )

as for phone number of the girl in white tight skirt, unfortunately i don't have it  ;D

So what is the truth about your Domi watch? :) (and i must say, i am completely ignorant at the watches field)
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 03:00:31 PM
item 7 looks like the closest resemblance to that fabric type. I was going to write in the previous posts that this this item will be very useful for you :D but forgot )

as for phone number of the girl in white tight skirt, unfortunately i don't have it  ;D

So what is the truth about your Domi watch? :) (and i must say, i am completely ignorant at the watches field)

I would rather say Item 8 (the shirt with brown flowers)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 03:16:02 PM
Sandro and Mies are very very good 10/10
 :applaud:

Price of this watch, with his new frame is around 12-15 bucks.

Do you think really that you need to expense a bunch of money ?

She will quickly look at it (the circle around the glass is in wood) and of course she will notice the Tour Eiffel. And a lot of question, oh you are french ? I went to the Tour Eiffel, i'm fond of Paris and  tatati tatata.

Just to say that you can win the attention of a women by showing taste, créativity and a way of elegance even with almost nothing.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 03:33:39 PM
Ok everybody
I'm having a great time and i'm enjoying this forum. I've receveid unexpectedly help and i thank these persons.
Now I will be very busy  in the next days  :P :P :P

What is my feeling, now ?
Energy 58 %
Self confidence 80 %
Seduction training 65 %
Sport training : 65 %
Mojo 10 %
D-2

How i react during meeting ?
Very simple : after few minutes :
I don't like, next
Perhaps, why not, i need to focus on her personnality to anchor something in the relationship.
Yes i want. After i need to focus on her personnality too (confirm like or dislike)

Really, really i don't make any plans with any of my 13 futures meetings. Perhaps i prefer this one or this one because i'm more attracted physically, but it can change as it can be quickly counterbalancing for plenty reasons (no personnality, inability in communication  and a lot of things that often you cannot describe because it's more a question of feeling and we are very different about this issue (fortunately, so everybody can please to everybody))

I will try tomorrow to send you few photos about clothing to close the topic (not the trip report).
Some people  :clapping:
and some people  :cluebat:

wich add a lot of contrast to the report. Myself i'm really LOL :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 18, 2011, 03:49:51 PM
Pat, are you meeting FSUW who speak French, or availing yourself of an interpreter?

If not, please regale us with some recorded snippets of your conversations, I'm sure they could be...interesting :D .
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2011, 04:08:36 PM
Pat, are you meeting FSUW who speak French, or availing yourself of an interpreter?

If not, please regale us with some recorded snippets of your conversations, I'm sure they could be...interesting :D .

Sandro you are quite impressive because you are not so far from the truth.
In fact normally afer each (or many) meetings i record my feelings. And during my first trip i was even recording some meetings. I'm very well organized and i've all on hard drive with security backup even one year and half after. It had helped me to understand my mistakes and compare guts and logical intelligence (the second loose in general). It's very important to  record "à chaud".

I have no fluent frenchy girls to meet, and i would avoid interpreter as possible, i mean in Dnepropetrovk. In Kharkov it's a little different because i know a good one, and she introduces me, and now she knows me, and i have a sort of complicity, tenderness for her, something like that.
Granted, there are remarkable people sometimes and you really enjoy their presence and spend time with them.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Kuna on May 18, 2011, 08:55:44 PM
This is a very strange yet interesting TR and I'm really enjoying it. Fascinated that so much preparation has gone into your clothing... Almost obsessive compulsive IMHO - but each to their own.

I'm interested in where you plan on meeting the ladies, especially in dnepropetrovsk as my wife is from there and I know this city quite well now. Dressed so immaculately I think there will be a few venues you'll look (and maybe feel) out of place... But others where you'll fit into perfectly.

Where are you planning for meetings?

The weather is still quite cool at the moment but you'll see an instant change to very casual attire as soon as the temperatures rise.



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 18, 2011, 09:00:54 PM
This is a very strange yet interesting TR and I'm really enjoying it. Fascinated that so much preparation has gone into your clothing... Almost obsessive compulsive IMHO - but each to their own.

I'm interested in where you plan on meeting the ladies, especially in dnepropetrovsk as my wife is from there and I know this city quite well now. Dressed so immaculately I think there will be a few venues you'll look (and maybe feel) out of place... But others where you'll fit into perfectly.

Where are you planning for meetings?

The weather is still quite cool at the moment but you'll see an instant change to very casual attire as soon as the temperatures rise.


yes very different TR.  the clothing thing has been obsessive.  but I think we will all enjoy his experiences as he starts to meet with the ladies that he has lined up.  Look fwd to it Patagonie!!   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 19, 2011, 02:25:04 AM
This is a very strange yet interesting TR and I'm really enjoying it. Fascinated that so much preparation has gone into your clothing... Almost obsessive compulsive IMHO - but each to their own.

I'm interested in where you plan on meeting the ladies, especially in dnepropetrovsk as my wife is from there and I know this city quite well now. Dressed so immaculately I think there will be a few venues you'll look (and maybe feel) out of place... But others where you'll fit into perfectly.

Where are you planning for meetings?

The weather is still quite cool at the moment but you'll see an instant change to very casual attire as soon as the temperatures rise.
I choiced Dnepropetrovsk for this trip for many goods reasons. One is that i like discover a place. Two two "goods" agencies work in this town. Three it's far from the crowded cities like Kiev, Moscow, Odessa, full of hookers, prodaters and golddigger. Fourth, it's far but not so, plane and fasts trains are available. Fifth it's a big city even so, there are plenty fishes. Sixth, with the Dnepr river i think it's great.
I have no idea where the meetings woud happen, probably near the agency.
Sunday morning i have little time to get ready, make change, find a sim card, and find the agency.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 19, 2011, 02:37:51 AM
About clothing,
things are really easier than you think.
And less obsessive than you imagine.

Look : it's easy.
You see something a little special, you assess the price with the quality.
You wear to know if you fit in it.
You think about : with wich others clothes can i associate this one ? ok you know that you potentially add a new combo, or several combos (more items you have and more easy it is) to your wardrobe.
You pay "et voilà".

I'm just showing what you can do with little time, not too much money. Just a art of life. After it's natural, ask to the girls, they will tell you...
And you know what ? Clothes are a way to connect with ladies and to have fun, and now i want to have more and more fun as i get oldier  8)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on May 19, 2011, 06:39:16 AM
After it's natural, ask to the girls, they will tell you...

yes, i support this point of view  8)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on May 19, 2011, 01:05:53 PM

Look : it's easy.
You see something a little special, you assess the price with the quality.
You wear to know if you fit in it.
You think about : with wich others clothes can i associate this one ? ok you know that you potentially add a new combo, or several combos (more items you have and more easy it is) to your wardrobe.
You pay "et voilà".


add some accessories and voilà ready to go!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 19, 2011, 01:37:36 PM
add some accessories and voilà ready to go!
Let your wife do the job !  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on May 19, 2011, 01:48:11 PM
I'm very well organized

That's an understatement if I'd ever heard one. Sure you're not British Patagonie?  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 19, 2011, 02:03:40 PM
Hello every
I'm packing now (in the red truck, but the truck doesn't want to enter in the flat, it's the problem, even with the help of my neighbours).

I'm exhausted, on edge, and it's not finish. The very good news is that the agency have made a perfect job, and the schedule is a piece of precision. Really i like what they have done.
More exciting,
a new lady has entered in the tour
So now on my my list, amongst the TOP four, three have agreed to meet. Really this adventure begins to be amazing.
Believe me, The Natural saw a lot of photos, those ladies are pretty good on photo.
And when you know that they are additionnaly, in average more intelligent and have more degree than the local i meet (i insist : in average), You begin to feel some power in your blood (but i stay realistic, this is the 0.1 % of the road  :D )

paka
paka
packa my suitcase
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 19, 2011, 02:05:09 PM

That's an understatement if I'd ever heard one. Sure you're not British Patagonie?  ;D

 :ROFL:

I need to ask to my mother.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 19, 2011, 03:17:16 PM
You would never believe it,
but my suitcase weight, exactly, The british and accurate weight
of 20,0 kg (trained traveller no ? ) :toocool:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on May 19, 2011, 03:34:08 PM
Patagonie,

you definitely must investigate who has spoiled your French blood   :D

PS You can begin with The National Measurement Office  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 21, 2011, 09:43:22 AM
I'M ALIVE, I'M IN THE CASTLE WITH THE DEMONS AND THE PRINCESS.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on May 21, 2011, 10:07:18 AM
I'M ALIVE, I'M IN THE CASTLE WITH THE DEMONS AND THE PRINCESS.

(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/9-2.gif) (http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/girl_devil.gif) (http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/girl_werewolf.gif)(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/curtsey.gif) (http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/girl_dance.gif) (http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/12.gif)


(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/good_luck.gif), Knight Patagonie
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 21, 2011, 10:12:34 AM
In may 2010 knight Pat the Second (the first had been lost in the wild and we lost his trace) came into the city of Dnenopretrovsk with all his knights and his army.
He took position in the center of the town to prevent all women to escape.
First he decided to order very strict laws for all women between 20 and 40 . in case of offence a special court must judge offender in less than four hours.

All men are immediatly deported in Kerch and the whole peninsula is cut from the rest of the country by a giant digging excavator. For those who when to escape they would be put in a special jail with DSK for THREE DAYS, After, if the militia forgot them, they will be shelved in a common place to forget who they are.

All women must wear high heels at least of three inch. In front of each building, a militiaman, with a special yardstick brang by the National Measurement Office will measure each high heel. If the high heel is under three inch, the woman will  quickly suffer a brainwashing by  Professor ThinkWithNoBalls (and her assistant LetHimWithoutMoneyAfterDivorce, our special question and torture team) and drop directly in Manhattan with a baggy trouser, a T.shirt XXXL and a pair of tennis. Special torture team will inoculate her a special medicine who will prevent her to wear any make up for next twenty years.

All women, upper 15 celsius degrees must wear a skirt, of course the same punishement will be applied to the offencer. The distance between the bellybutton and the end of the skirt must be under twenty inch.

Larges panties are not at all allowed. A maximum size of only 200 square centimeters only is allowed. Before going, each woman must show her panty to be measured and recorded in our registers. After approval a certificate will be done and then they will have only to show it before leaving the building.
IN CASE OF OFFENCE
The substituting of our special torture team, Professor McDonald, will add immediately 45 pounds to the woman for the next 15 years, with no possibility to remove it.

It's all for the moment,
Patagonie Second, God save our kingdom.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 21, 2011, 10:13:45 AM
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/9-2.gif) (http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/girl_devil.gif) (http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/girl_werewolf.gif)(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/curtsey.gif) (http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/girl_dance.gif) (http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/12.gif)


(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/Olga_AH/Smiles/good_luck.gif), Knight Patagonie

Thank you very good, see above. :D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 21, 2011, 12:37:37 PM
All women, upper 15 deegres must wear a skirt, of course the same punishement will be applied to the offencer. The distance between the bellybutton and the end of the skirt mustn't be under twenty inch.

Don't you mean "mustn't over' twenty inches."

And what is "upper 15 deegres" ?

Do you mean the top 15 percent in appearance?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 21, 2011, 12:59:04 PM
Don't you mean "mustn't over' twenty inches."

And what is "upper 15 deegres" ?

Do you mean the top 15 percent in appearance?

Hoping it is corrected. Thank
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 21, 2011, 02:08:44 PM
Ok everybody
Travel is not very interesting in itself.
Just i was tired, and even if i managed the best i could, i don't really rest as the airport was crowded. I burnt the last sparks of energy i had during the day.
And even an almost good night was without real effect as i started the day without energy. I was more exhausted than rested.

Airports in Ukraine are improving, and so it's more and more comfortable. In Kiev the new terminal dressed well, but now you need to walk a little to take your local flight. Surprisingly it was a one hundred plane, crowded, which took off from Kiev. So again no really time to rest.

At the airport the director of the agency was waiting me. She didn't receive my last email.
She was tired and me too of course. She dropped me in a lovely two bedrooms in the core center of Dnepropetrovsk, taking five minutes to show me the surrondings. She was professionnal. Bringing some fruits, all needed for the breakfast, towels and so on...
We have a different about a problem with paypal, because she says that many weeks or two months are needed to be credited by paypal in Ukraine.
I paid her the balance of my bill 24 hours previous my departure but she returned me my money few hours later by Paypal.
Wich didn't help me at all because for this travel (i don't want to give details) i was already a little short in cash, not having enough time to get more money.
And cash for me is always security as i don't usually rely on bank card. I used only  three  or four times during my seven lasts travels.

To summarize finally two meetings happened. Wich in fact was really enough for me with so little energy.

Total time meetings  : 5:30

Girl one, CaptainOfCustom
Total time meeting 3:30
31, black hair with green eyes, she is around between 8.2 and 8.4. She was dressed to the nines. It's obvious that these two ladies spent at least one hour or two to be dressed and got make up. Wich of course showed their initial interest. Because both had read my whole introduction.
So 1/ The agency performs well and had sent this document, wich i consider  of the master piece of my "virtual" seduction. Even if it's not extraordinarily translated, it works.
2/ The agency's director read it too but don't remind all details because she is very busy. Really this agency is very good for the moment, i give them 9/10.

Advice : if you naturally explain what is your level of maturity to these professionnals (i mean agency's employees), if you are this person, if you are fun, if they enjoy to work with you because it's fun to work with you. If you bring something to these persons, so they can believe in you, so they can sale you.
If you are a salesman and you know that you are in charge of a bad product, How could  you be really sell it ? How could you convince customers ?

This travel i learnt something new : don't hurt the proud of east people (i already know, but i just needed to remember). I asked to the director, would you like me bringing you something from the duty free because  :cluebat:
 i know that it's difficult in Ukraine to get some good products for make up  :cluebat:
(wich is true but as she probably earns perhaps as more money than me or more so  she surely don't need anyone to buy good products because she can do the same in luxuary brand shops with plenty of her money).

So CaptainOfCustom is a little shy, emotionnal and she has a secret side.
Her body language opened only at the end. Turned towards me, sitting comfortable on her seat.
But
she stays with us as my second meeting was canceled.
When we walked she stayed between 4 and 15 inchs near to me.
She touched her hair at least twice while looking at me.
She smiled me many times
She looked at me in the eyes many times
She laughed many dozens times
She begun the meeting by asking difficults and accurate questions.
Like why having choice me ?.
If someone doesn't like you he will not invest time to screen you like this.

Problem : she don't like my language, she don't have a real idea of what relocating means (but is it really a problem ?).

Finally after the meeting, as i'm really suspicious i cannot really know her level of interest as she limited her expression and in particular her body language even if i felt it positive.
At this level i credit her of 80 % of interest and considering that my first meeting, with a very low level of energy i think it's a good meeting for me, as training for the rest of the vacation.

Girl two : EleanorDeGrandet, same age than previous one. One child
Total time meeting 2:00.
Tall , with not so much high heels, you reach the 6'4 easily. She was dressed as well as CaptainOfCustoms. In the firsts seconds i taught, no it's not her, and after few minutes i began to think : why not ? She is a little enwrapped but she looks good and sensual, in fact she is gorgeous. Both girls have big breast, C at least and they don't want to hide it. She is more beautiful on photos rather than in reality so i dropped her to a 8.2 for the moment, waiting an other meeting to confirm it as i saw her erected only few seconds.
Don't waste our time :
after two minutes, she almost touch my hand,
Deep stare when we are looking each other
Always lean in in her seat (in my direction)
Smiling
Laughing
I take her hand many times, it's obvious that she liked the contact, and i was the first to draw my hand back.
I can touch the cross between her breasts and she don't move at all, no backward movement at all.
She is comfortable with me, at first time.
I validate this meeting, her interest is nearly 100 %. she flushed less than the previous girl, because we spent less time together and perhaps (or probably) because she is less emotionnal.

For both dates, at the end of the meeting, french hand kiss of course, like the Comte de Rochefort kissing the hand of Milady de Winter.

At 6:30 i was free as an another meeting had been canceled. So i bought a 3G key with a new sim car, total cost : 475 grv. Really a top top purchase. Now no headache to catch internet and stay connected. I have to thank a member of this forum because this idea is him. Really, now next time it will cost me only 100 grv to get connected.

So during the dinner i tought : how can i validate these two meetings and in particular CaptainOfCustom ???
I was too tired to hang out and just want to stay in my flat, write, rest and eventually see a movie. So no girls tonight.

So i sent ДОБЫЙ ВЕУЕР Patagonie the second, king of Dnepropetrovsk after God (no it's a joke, just Pat)
Very Surprisingly the first to answer have been CaptainOfCustoms.
Less one minute later :
good evening, how are you (first sms)
what are you doing ? Captain of Customs (second sms, sent immediately after the second)
WOWWWWWWW 8) 8) 8) :P :clapping:
I stayed playful :
Answer : i'm fine but i'm really afraid that a custom's captain comes and controls me this night.
Waiting : wich means that the girl, with her little english, is trying to understand what i sent.
Two minutes :
Is it good or is it bad ?
WOW, she needs some explanation and to feel reassured.
Me : it's a joke, it is good to joke with you.
Her : Mmmmm
Now be careful : if now you let this lady with no more information about YOUR interest you would almost loose her  :deadhorse: . I'm not in Europe i cannot play too long and with a FSU you need to SHOW. So :
Me : it's good, CaptainOfCustoms, i have liked our first meeting. Have a nice night.
Answer : thank, nice night.
Now i can tell that her interest is 100 %, A3 validated, and firsts steps climbed with success. :popcorn: :clapping: :P :thumbsup:

I didn't answer to her, saying : i'm doing tatati tatata.
As  i answered extensively and quickly to her SMS, she could guess that i was not with an other girl.
I didn't want to propose her a meeting... For example it had been possible to tell her : i'm in the restaurant, do you want to meet ?
If she would have said yes
So i could have been pretty sure that we would have gone to a more intimate relation (handclose or kiss)
WICH i don't want because i want to meet as possible a maximum of girls to screen them with the aim  to set a short list.

Tomorrow : i don't know in fact.
We will begin at 12:00, but really i'm totally relax about meetings and in fact i don't care at all to know if it will be c/ d/ H/ Madame de Chantilly, Marina Dupont or Bonita Sanchez De la Coukalacha.
At least the minimal requirement is that her foots contact the floor for the moment.
Now tomorrow i would work on my understanding of the representation's system of the women i would meet, just an exercise, if i'm not too tired.

Last thing : the first thing that the director noticed this morning was my shoes, saying i never see such one, and saying to her assistant, oh look tatati tatati, how people dress, europeans, usa guys, they dress differently, and tatata and tatati. My first date spent at least two minutes staring my shoes too.
It was Item 9 with a simple T.shirt with long sleeves and a jean, a watch of 100 bucks, sunglasses and a belt. Easy : nothing else, just the keys, an iphone, money, passport. After gdes toilets, i had recorded (into the toilets) before the end of  the meeting my firsts impressions to keep trace of my feelings (my impression about the girls, not about the toilets  :naughty: .)

Summary :
my sexual tension focuses on girl 2
my marriage tension focuses probably on girl 1 but all can change.
The good question is : "imagine you with her all around the earth, with two childrens as mother, what's your feeling Pat ?".
It's a good question rather than to plan a whole night of darkness cavalcades with the first guard regiment of cavalery of Monseigneur De Chablis and his four mistresses.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 21, 2011, 08:01:31 PM
I didn't realize the French had such a good sense of humor.   :)

Well done; keep it up.   8)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 22, 2011, 01:36:25 PM
DAY2 Today is an another day :
i didn't rest at all so for the moment i'm always very tired, wich is not without consequences for my game.
The agency is making really a good joob, i give them a 9,5/10 for the moment.

My policy was to not use terps. So the first time we went to the agency's office i had prepared a covering with 250 euros inside. My purpose was to give this money saying : "i know interpreter are a part of your business and i respect your business but i don't want to use an interpreter at all, so you will keep the money anyways and if i need one you would send me one".

I was with this covering in my hand and we were in the office with the terp. But something in my head was ringing, like "feel your guts". Finally i dropped the covering on her table saying : it's an advance, like a fee, for interpreter's expenses. The director was happily surprised.
For the total of 6 i met only one, it's the true, was really able to speak in english, the others not at all. Digging the catalog and knowing it i can tell you that unfortunately very few girls are capable to speak good english (i mean enough to have a real discussion). It's not manipulation, all these women are real, genuine, and even if i'm a suspicious, sometimes very suspicious guy, i can tell you that i believe the agency do her best to accomplish her duty.

I can also tell you that knowing few words in russian, and telling that you are going to learn it and that you want your childrens can speak english, russian and french give you a serious bonus in your score with these women.
And really it adds some fun. For exemple each time agency people entered or go out of the office they are always struggle with the keys (does the door is closed ? Where are the key ? So now each time i cross the door i scream CLUNCHY wich of course make the girls LOL. I answer to the director when she says you have to  tatati tatati : Yes Chief with the same attitude that the Sergent Donan did in front of his huey Cobra juste before shooting a long burst of calibre 50 into the wild.

My concern is i game with a very low level of energy and now a terrific toothache, and the dentist surgery is needed now, it's impossible to imagine me spending two weeks like that. So for the moment i don't find the usual pleasure that i find in sharing time with ladies.

My second concern is the second assistant interpreter i have used today. The first had been very efficient, this one, for me, it's  :wallbash:
She don't know all the vocabulary i use, i cannot make complex meanings. I must stay in very basic jokes. Really it's a pain. You are loosing time, the girl is waiting, the poor energy i have had if vanishing. So i decided with the manager to change of interpreter.

First meeting happen  not so far from the office. She was a very tall women and very large. Photos are not really adequate in her case.

Ladie177ObelixLady
Personnaly i did'nt like. She likes me and it seems to be that pick up her phone number. FOr example we are here in a faking. A heavy work with the photo, for 177 cm she is surely near of 75 kilos rather the 65 of the ad. I don't say that nobody would dislike her but it's really not my type. She was interested but me not.

The second PradaAffair fit, dressed very differentely of others, with throuser. little make up. After fiew minutes i found her agrissive. I was rally ready to bring back those too ladies at the office to stop this B/S. Ok she don't like me and i don't like her simple : next. SHe slows down quicky after the firsts bursts but she is different from the average of the Ukrainian women, who are, generally, at first sight, sweet.

We have discussed with the director about PradaAffair, this girl is not feminine, and the director is perfectly right with this one.  So difficult to sell the product for the agency. About the agency, the assumption that they know all girls is probably true, for what i saw. As some women was flaking the schedule, and even if she tried to choice on my list as remplacement she also offered me again to see news girls. I agreed.

Three : BombaO
BombaO is a geeeeeeeeeeeooooooooooorrgguoous person. You can bring her everywhere in the worl for camping and you will never feel the uneveness of the floor. And when she was entering in the coffee, showing a very little part of the panty stucked in a so huge ass, i was thinking, perhaps it's time to call many rescue teams to have a chance to extract this poor panty. Between ass and breast god has  make a perfect symetry so you are never boring even if she changes of position.
Ok she quicly turn her and her legs towards me, i can touch her without problem
She was comfortable, staring me, smiling. Ok she is interested. Me i don't know, nothing tremendous as you can guess. We spend one hour at least discussing about fashion. she has a child. I pick up her phone number.

Four DoctorBelly a new one recommended by the agency, 27, single.
Very kind, tender, interesting. My only mistake had been to seat near to her. SHe moved and relocate in front of me, wich is message to say : i'm not enough comfortable with you sir, with my skirt, to seat on the same coach. After no problem
Lean in
Show her tongue (sexual advance).
Staring
Always smiling
Come herself at the end to kiss me in the french kiss (version bonjour).
Insist to keep as friend even if i choice an other.
ask me about others meetings.
Explaining me when she is free
Proposing me to discover the city

Very good meeting : exactly the type of girls with you will not have any problems anywhere in the world. Reliable, honest, energetic, willing to learn and to work, interesting girl. Marriage material. Problem i'm not really attracted by her, i mean physically. I answer honestly for all questions. And promise to see her again because i want to know her better. She desserves it, absolutely. Phone number.

I drop Doctor Bellly aiming for a fifth meeting with CaptainOfCustoms at 21:20 in Moch supermarket. I was a little in hurry and just in front of the entrance of my flat i recevied a SMS from her saying : i'm cooking eat and i still not to be free sorry.
Weird, you don't wait  the hour of the meeting to send such thing, it's not really polite or she came, and after one or two minutes, seing nobody, she had had a tantrum et zou. With girls every thing is possible. For the moment no news. And i don't answer. I'm waiting to see the director to have her point of view.

Ok during these two days, i saw 6 girls, not the most interesting of my initial list.
As anticipated the three ennemies of the women in the international dating are the food and a too talentuous photograph. True. And the third is to not improve her english skills.
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on May 22, 2011, 02:15:29 PM
I didn't realize the French had such a good sense of humor.   :)

Well done; keep it up.   8)

Yes, it is a refreshing change.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on May 22, 2011, 03:43:18 PM

My concern is i game with a very low level of energy and now a terrific toothache, and the dentist surgery is needed now, it's impossible to imagine me spending two weeks like that.

just trying to help to soothe your pain a little bit (from Russian jokes):

Three messieurs (age of 50, 60 and 80) are playing cards. Their conversation turns on women. A 50 y.o. says: the most beautiful part is a woman's legs. When I look at a gorgeous pair of legs I feel aesthetic pleasure. A 60 y.o. answers: Oh no, for me it is a woman's breast the most beautiful part! A 80 y.o. takes his part: Messieurs! No and no! Women have something else... I can't recall what exactly right now but it is très charmant!!

Paris. Early morning. A street cleaner swings his broom. Swish-swish-swish-swish... Suddenly he noticed a pretty woman in mini skirt and his broom starts to "swish" faster. A window opens and a woman screams to the street cleaner: Monsieur! Shame on you! You throw out of rhythm the whole Quarter!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 23, 2011, 12:28:31 AM
just trying to help to soothe your pain a little bit (from Russian jokes):

Three messieurs (age of 50, 60 and 80) are playing cards. Their conversation turns on women. A 50 y.o. says: the most beautiful part is a woman's legs. When I look at a gorgeous pair of legs I feel aesthetic pleasure. A 60 y.o. answers: Oh no, for me it is a woman's breast the most beautiful part! A 80 y.o. takes his part: Messieurs! No and no! Women have something else... I can't recall what exactly right now but it is très charmant!!

Paris. Early morning. A street cleaner swings his broom. Swish-swish-swish-swish... Suddenly he noticed a pretty woman in mini skirt and his broom starts to "swish" faster. A window opens and a woman screams to the street cleaner: Monsieur! Shame on you! You throw out of rhythm the whole Quarter!
Oh it's so cute
Thank you for your support
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 23, 2011, 08:25:29 AM
Day 3
Today dentist day.
Suffering a heavy pain, increasing more and more, i asked the agency to find a dentist. So instead of my date i dated my dentist, Yulia, who, of course don't
see my best profile to begin.
In fact she spent two hours into my mouth.
In the beginning, i was happy, i can even say impress by a such modern place.
But after one hour on my seat, the mouth always opened, i began to find such situation unpleasant.
Especially when they need to put above my mouth a sort of plastic sheet. And things improved worse and worse, they filled the hole wich some pasta.
After two hours, the hole was finally fillet but now they need to remove the surplus.
Now it's 3 PM and my date is at rendez-vous, already delayed one time for me. So i asked the interpret with my hand and showed her the watch and pointed three fingers towards her.
Now the dentist tried to perform her best, removing all the mecanical system in front of my mouth. BUT the mouth cannot close really as there is 1/12 inch  in surplus wich prevent the jaws to close. Each time she took the abrasor she removed at leat 1/2000 inch. I taught : at 8 i would be on this damned seat. So i ask a bigger abrasor.
At 3:15 i decided to leave the seat, regardless of if my jaws close or not.
A lady mustn't wait too much.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 23, 2011, 08:50:44 AM
Elle a les yeux clairs et les pupilles faucon crécerelle
je la vois dans l'entrefouillis de ses boucles mauves
Elle se cache dans mon regard et se penche à l'envie
dans le dédale de sa pudibonderie
Bringing back and looking back
She offered me an additionnal break time
Just to jump in the seaside
Je veux la bercer dans le calice de mes mains,
Juste un disque de Joe Dassin à contre-point.
Devinant dans les ombrages du tramway
sa silhouette nonchalante dériver
dans l'emotional tension
Ses rêves vrais irriser dans la ville assoupie
et enfin vivre le rêve éveillé.

Special Dnepropetrovsk Event 2011, Pat
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 23, 2011, 10:54:12 AM
Pat, did you really set of on this trip knowing that you had a potential tooth problem?

That, after such careful planning with the clothes!!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 23, 2011, 10:57:41 AM

Four DoctorBelly a new one recommended by the agency, 27, single.
Very kind, tender, interesting. My only mistake had been to seat near to her. SHe moved and relocate in front of me, wich is message to say : i'm not enough comfortable with you sir, with my skirt, to seat on the same coach. After no problem
Lean in
Show her tongue (sexual advance).
Staring
Always smiling
Come herself at the end to kiss me in the french kiss (version bonjour).
Insist to keep as friend even if i choice an other.
ask me about others meetings.
Explaining me when she is free
Proposing me to discover the city

Whose actions are you describing here; yours or hers?

Are you saying she didn't want to sit beside you; yet gave you French kiss later?

Something in the food caused the change??
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on May 23, 2011, 11:49:33 AM

Are you saying she didn't want to sit beside you; yet gave you French kiss later?


I read that she did not want to sit beside him but in front, then stared into his eyes in the manner a RW does when she is keenly interested.
 
It was not the American definition of "French kiss," rather the French definition of a bonjour kiss.  Americans would call it an air kiss or a peck on the cheek.  I have received such by French women and RW.  My limited experience says the RW version is more moist and not as quick, a subtle yet remarkable difference.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 23, 2011, 03:03:03 PM
Pat, did you really set of on this trip knowing that you had a potential tooth problem?

That, after such careful planning with the clothes!!
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

Of course not, i think the flight launched the problem.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 23, 2011, 03:09:23 PM
Whose actions are you describing here; yours or hers?

Are you saying she didn't want to sit beside you; yet gave you French kiss later?

Something in the food caused the change??
I described her actions, but initially, i sat near to her, on the same coach.
So after few minutes she gave as an excuse that her place was too cold (air conditionning), to change and seat in front of me (classical).
My mystake had been to push too more intimacy, before having enough comfort.

The french kiss happened at the end of the date, just after leaving the bar. French kisses for those who don't know is a very common way to  introduce you to people by kissing cheeks each others.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on May 23, 2011, 03:18:47 PM
Day 3
Today dentist day.


Dr: Please, Open your mouth. Open your mouth.
Nurse, the anaesthetic!!

Dr: Close your mouth! Close your mouth!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rd2s9Bv-7Y[/youtube]
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 23, 2011, 03:21:36 PM
French kisses for those who don't know is a very common way to  introduce you to people by kissing cheeks each others.
That may be true in French, but not in English ;D:

Quote
A French kiss is a kiss in which one participant's tongue touches the partner's lips or tongue and usually enters his or her mouth. A French kiss is a slow passionate kiss which is usually considered intimate, romantic, erotic or sexual. A French kiss is generally considered an erotic kiss usually reserved for lovers.
(http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjAwMzA4OTA2OF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNDk3NDIyMQ@@._V1._SY317_CR2,0,214,317_.jpg)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 23, 2011, 08:20:54 PM
Sandro, after re-reading Pat's post, I must now backtrack a bit and come to his defense.

He did say: "Come herself at the end to kiss me in the french kiss (version bonjour)."

The bonjour word puts the kiss in a different category . . . yes?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 23, 2011, 09:02:23 PM
That may be true in French, but not in English ;D :
(http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjAwMzA4OTA2OF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNDk3NDIyMQ@@._V1._SY317_CR2,0,214,317_.jpg)

Sandro is absolutely right in the usual definition of french kiss : kiss with tongues.

At this level of dating, with a marriage goal in mind, if i begin to make a TRUE french kiss to a girl it's not serious.
Not i mean french kiss by kissing the cheeks.

But after you are entered deeper in the relation, if each applicante agree you can practice the more "sensual" french kiss, wich is surprisingly not so well understand out our homeland. It's why i envisage to have a company proposing those sorts of training, with me like assistant and director of course.  :welcome:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 23, 2011, 09:04:28 PM
Dr: Please, Open your mouth. Open your mouth.
Nurse, the anaesthetic!!

Dr: Close your mouth! Close your mouth!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rd2s9Bv-7Y[/youtube]

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
very good i enjoy
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on May 23, 2011, 09:05:40 PM
Sandro, after re-reading Pat's post, I must now backtrack a bit and come to his defense.

He did say: "Come herself at the end to kiss me in the french kiss (version bonjour)."

The bonjour word puts the kiss in a different category . . . yes?

You, Sandro and Pat must have me on ignore:
 
Quote
It was not the American definition of "French kiss," rather the French definition of a bonjour kiss.  Americans would call it an air kiss or a peck on the cheek.  I have received such by French women and RW.  My limited experience says the RW version is more moist and not as quick, a subtle yet remarkable difference.

Bonjour means hello.  So in this case it was a paka not privet kiss.  ManLooking, your lack of knowledge on this topic suggests that you have been focusing too much on other orifices or go for "it" at the first opening.   ;)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 23, 2011, 09:08:07 PM

You, Sandro and Pat must have me on ignore:
 
Bonjour means hello.  So in this case it was a paka not privet kiss.  ManLooking, your lack of knowledge on this topic suggests that you have been focusing too much on other orifices or go for "it" at the first opening.   ;)
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 23, 2011, 09:10:33 PM
Elle est grande, elle a les yeux pers.
Des pupilles dans lesquelles je me perds et cette pudeur
qui font que je n'ai plus peur.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 23, 2011, 09:45:54 PM
I want to thank everybody for his assistance and his attention.
It's time to make a debrief. Some questions had been asked previous the trip.

It seems to be that the agency had sent at least the one page introduction. It rests unknow, statiscally i mean, if the whole introduction would have been sent systematically.

About the girls
i give you the estimated score and the real one.
On photos     real
8.4                 8.1
8.4                 8.1
8.3                 7.8
8.6                  8
8.8                 8.4
8.1                 8.25
8.6                 8.85

Time needed after landing  : 64 hours and fifteen minutes.

Agency score : 9,5/10
Honestly and reliability 10/10
Choice girls : very good.
Rental flat : very good but noisy (a little too much).

I've had great great pleasure to share these specials instants with you.

Sincerely Pat.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 24, 2011, 06:00:09 AM
You, Sandro and Pat must have me on ignore
But Pat was in the FSU, where bonjour kisses are serious stuff ;D:

(http://mikeely.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/breznev_honecker_kissing.jpg?w=350)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 24, 2011, 02:50:33 PM
But Pat was in the FSU, where bonjour kisses are serious stuff ;D :
(http://mikeely.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/breznev_honecker_kissing.jpg?w=350)

It's why i've never tried to enter into the party Sandro.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 24, 2011, 08:48:31 PM
I want to thank everybody for his assistance and his attention.
It's time to make a debrief. Some questions had been asked previous the trip.

It seems to be that the agency had sent at least the one page introduction. It rests unknow, statiscally i mean, if the whole introduction would have been sent systematically.

About the girls
i give you the estimated score and the real one.
On photos     real
8.4                 8.1
8.4                 8.1
8.3                 7.8
8.6                  8
8.8                 8.4
8.1                 8.25
8.6                 8.85

Time needed after landing  : 64 hours and fifteen minutes.

Agency score : 9,5/10
Honestly and reliability 10/10
Choice girls : very good.
Rental flat : very good but noisy (a little too much).

I've had great great pleasure to share these specials instants with you.

Sincerely Pat.

Hey Patagonie,

I hope you are having a good time, you French Peacock  ;D
Can you share with us the name and contact information of the agency??
It seems like they are very good according to your scores.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 24, 2011, 11:12:03 PM
Hey Patagonie,

I hope you are having a good time, you French Peacock  ;D
Can you share with us the name and contact information of the agency??
It seems like they are very good according to your scores.
Hi Rubicon.
Yes this agency desserves. I contact them knowing they are serious, but it's true they are damned good and they have a wide choice of women. The director is very good and i think she knows all the ladies. When i asked to change of flat and stay here more time she proposed me a two high class rooms for 55$ wich is very honest in my opinion. It's Five Stars Introduction. I bought a service called a tour wich he is a very good option because you can choice and meet 25 ladies. Normally if you screen the whole catalog, sort 25 women and don't find one she likes you and you like her, i think you have a problem  :ROFL: :thumbsdown:
Pat peacocked
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 24, 2011, 11:16:28 PM
HI HOUSTON HERE WE HAVE A BIG PROBLEM

Pat, mission Apollo Seven.

Center, ready for transmission ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 25, 2011, 02:39:04 AM
Everybody hello.
I'm the most lucky an unlucky guy of the earth.
As you can guess it after 64 hours and fifteen minutes i found the right one.  :toocool:


After time of chasing

(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/data:image/gif;base64,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)

It's time to

 :flowers:
And
  :couple:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 25, 2011, 03:25:01 AM
I remembered one guy of this forum saying : when an FSU likes you, she would tell you.
He's right.

This lady has in my eyes something special (of course  :ROFL: )
for me.
She has always this special inside childhood into her eyes, a sort of prudishness but for what i know she is mature and focus on humans concerns. She speaks a strong english, has been living abroad, she's single, and for what i know don't have foolish expectations. For what i saw she takes care of my money and take care of me.

I'm not, as you have understood, this sort of guy who arriving here  for the first time, become literally crazy   :luv: , because, after two or three meetings he focuses on the first big ass and beauty face he meets, and decides to invite the family and god to blessing his new couple straight ahead.

I don't count exactly but i have met like twenty girls in one year and half, kiss 5, have had 4 affairs (what i consider like an affair here in FSU don't include sex (having only with one), for marriage reason, prefering to practice the fucking stuff with locals). Theses ladies were aged between 28 and 33 and scored between 8.3 and 8.7
So i think i have a good picture of what is a relation with a lady and absolutely not impressed at all by beautiful women. As you can guess it i'm very comfortable with people, all people.

So it's simple, you met the right one, why do you want to continue to meet others ? When i met for the second time Sweeties Blue i was having a call with my russian teacher. I can say that i saw her disappointement on her face, she was fantasizing that i was scheduling a date with an other woman.

I really think, and Elena Models explains it very well in her site, that you MUST enter in a unique relation. The big problem is WHEN ? Too late is too late and too early and you badly smash your face.

I have no answer. Only feels my guts. I feel this one genuine, deeply genuine. Perhaps i'm wrong, i will know. It's like poker, but i'm the guy who takes decisions and made actions.

So i stopped all others meetings because she is exactly what i want. For the moment.
We spent six hours together. But the problem Houston is that Sweeties Blue is leaving tomorrow Dnepropetrovsk for Moscow to see her sister for few weeks.

Do you believe it ? i make things i think in a perfect manner, having 15 days full time to find and spend time with my lady and now she is disappearing. I'm really upset. It happened the same in september last year. But today it will not possible to follow her, we are not enough comfortable, in our relation. And she must first proposes to me, wich would be a very complicated option anyways.

So what i must do ?
I don't want to meet others girls, not at all.
I'm thinking to leave this city, go to Kharkov to see who i like and return to my country because i have a lot of things to do, and i'm loosing money here anyways.

Any opinions appreciated. Thank you Houston.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on May 25, 2011, 07:18:17 AM

So i stopped all others meetings because she is exactly what i want. For the moment.

 :ROFL:
 
Quote
I don't want to meet others girls, not at all.

 
Snap out of it!  If you stop now, you will continue to feel down.   And a few months from now you could feel remorse for stopping.
 

Quote
I'm thinking to leave this city, go to Kharkov to see who i like

 
Perfect!  There are many fish in the sea.  Who knows what could happen!  Who knows!   Who knows! 
 
Important - when meeting other women do not think about the one in Moscow visiting her "sister."  Assume she is seeing her sister and maybe someone else and was just being diplomatic (white lie).   If you are thinking about another woman, the woman in front of you will sense that you are not interested in her and your charm will not work.
 
Do you have an agency?  There are many in Kharkov.  Many years ago I worked with All-Beautiful (small agency, owner named Helen-Elena).  They know thier women and they have excellent apartments.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 25, 2011, 08:09:32 AM

 :ROFL:
 
 
Snap out of it!  If you stop now, you will continue to feel down.   And a few months from now you could feel remorse for stopping.

YOU ARE RIGHT REMORSE is always a feeling that you never know when it couldappear. But it's often when you don't do the right thing for you, i mean when your actions are not connected with your guts. I feel myself connected.

NOT SURE THESE women are not foolish, they want to know if you are sincere and they test you too. I think during my first four meetings, because i was a newbie, i had had a large responsability by loosing a girl for who i have had really strongs feelings (and she was interested too). It's the trap that EM describes in her site. She perfectly know that i saw few women and she knows that if i stay here i can meet more. I can lie as much as she, more than she. And don't forget she knows that i'll go to Kharkov, but for wich reason ? Why she must accept more my explanation than her about meeting her sister ?
 
 
 
Perfect!  There are many fish in the sea.  Who knows what could happen!  Who knows!   Who knows!
 
THIS IS EXACTLY the turning point which needs decision. I'm in the obligation because of her damned travel to binary choice between continue to chase (the best way to stay a hunter my whole life wich is not my goal) and enter in an unique one. You are right : if you don't show and say to her : YOU ARE THE ONE she will not believe it and will be not engaged totally emotionnaly. In practice how can you date girls when yours potentially is free in the evening, wich is pratically the battlement of time when others are free too ?
 
Important - when meeting other women do not think about the one in Moscow visiting her "sister."  Assume she is seeing her sister and maybe someone else and was just being diplomatic (white lie).   If you are thinking about another woman, the woman in front of you will sense that you are not interested in her and your charm will not work.
OF COURSE I HAVE IMMEDIATLY THINK OF THAT, BUT I HAVE NO TOOLS TO ASSESS IT KNOWING THE EXACT TRUTH, JUST ALL SHE SAID MAKE SENSE WITH MY KNOWLEDGE  OF FSU. One of my previous girlfriend, when she told that she was going abroad was not lying, because finally she invited me and i could see that she had planned the trip alone (we spent the trip together).
 
Do you have an agency?  There are many in Kharkov.  Many years ago I worked with All-Beautiful (small agency, owner named Helen-Elena).  They know thier women and they have excellent apartments.
THANK YOU, I KNOW ENOUGH PEOPLE IN THE PLACE OF KHARKOV to restart meetings, but it's not my goal.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 25, 2011, 08:40:49 AM
. . . . because, after two or three meetings he focuses on the first big ass and beauty face he meets . . . .

You mean some guys do like a big ass . . . . not counting some of the tribes in Africa?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 25, 2011, 08:45:38 AM
I don't count exactly but i have met like twenty girls in one year and half, kiss 5, have had 4 affairs (what i consider like an affair here in FSU don't include sex (having only with one), for marriage reason, prefering to practice the fucking stuff with locals).

An affair that does not include sex?
Kiss 5 and have 4 affairs.  So what is an affair in your definition?

And why don't you want to practice the fucking stuff with someone you might marry?  You plan to wait until after wedding ceremony for such??
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 25, 2011, 08:51:43 AM
Regarding the gal you met who you think is 'the one.'

First, I would tell her how you feel in very strong words.
Then push very hard for her to delay her trip to Moscow.

If she does, then great; you proceed on with her.

But if she doesn't; then I would take this as an indication (but not proof) that she really doesn't have the same feelings toward you.

Now, aside from the above; I think two meetings with the second being 6 hours is a little soon to be finding 'the one.'

I second mostly the advice that Gator has given to you.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 25, 2011, 10:07:26 AM
Regarding the gal you met who you think is 'the one.'

First, I would tell her how you feel in very strong words.
Then push very hard for her to delay her trip to Moscow.
Impossible she will meet her sister in Moscow, and she comes from Canada. A relation of 6 hours don't count in such family meeting, you must be realistic.

If she does, then great; you proceed on with her.

But if she doesn't; then I would take this as an indication (but not proof) that she really doesn't have the same feelings toward you.

Now, aside from the above; I think two meetings with the second being 6 hours is a little soon to be finding 'the one.'

You are absolute right, but i have no choice, i can just wait and meet her again later. It's why i'm so upset : i take enough vacation to spend enough time with the lady (remember the process i wanted --> see 10-15, screen a short list, spend second and third meetings --> elect one and spend the rest of my two full weeks with her)

I second mostly the advice that Gator has given to you.

Thank you for your post
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 25, 2011, 10:32:39 AM
An affair that does not include sex?
Kiss 5 and have 4 affairs.  So what is an affair in your definition?

And why don't you want to practice the fucking stuff with someone you might marry?  You plan to wait until after wedding ceremony for such??

I mean for a so such important affair, i can delay sex, it will happen when it should happen. One of my mistake in the beginning had been to believe that the process was different in FSU for a marriage affair.
It is not of course, this is very important for a lot of guys that want to show and prove to the ladies their seriousness to know that they mustn't forget the basic rules between women and men,
and these rules don't change in the west and in the east.

And it is the point wich can help a lot of guys to avoid scammer or prodater. If a girl don't touch  you and don't come along you physically after a few days, she is not into you or she has specials problems. It's not different than the west, women stay women, and you MUST act as a man. But a lot of guys, for differents reasons forget it or are not capable to drive the relationship to escalate.

I authorize myself to delay sex but if it must naturally happen so i will let it happen. It happened with my second girlfriend in less than 30 hours. You perfectly (and I) know that you need to push the relation towards intimacy. The difference in FSU is i'm stronger as my mindset is that i'm not waiting anything about sex. So my frame is very strong and the girls need to work to attract me rather than I. To resume my head leads my balls, not the opposite.
To finish i have no such idea to prevent myself to have sex before a marriage. Of course i want to check also compatibility in this area, it's important, very important.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 25, 2011, 11:15:02 AM
Ok now
what i'm going to do.

In accordance with what we have said during our meeting time.

The meeting could had happened earlier but the agency had changed the schedule, so our appointement happened close to her departure. So she knows that i've met .... many women.  It is that she told me today.

I don't want to describe for the moment the date but many signs of interest, of the 6 who showed IOI she was the most interested, and i'm pretty sure that i could have push the advantage to kiss, but i didn't realize that she was on the starting line so i taught that i had time.

She agrees and writed yesterday by mail to start the courtship, in accordance with what we discuss during our meeting time.

Today we don't meet and we don't see each other again as she is leaving tomorrow and she is also working. Ok it's not very cool for me. Ok you can think what you want.

She proposed me to see each other in july or august and go together in Crimea (wich is the place i told her i want to really visit, because i've never gone).
And she proposed to arrange her work  with the aim of spend vacation together.

She will be back around mid june from Moscow (is it true or false ?????)

I CANNOT COMMUNICATE her each hour my own insecurity, i just have to manage my own bads feelings, i said her what i think twice by phone and by SMS, it's enough.

A next meeting in july is possible for me. Five or six weeks to wait, what's the hell ? If this travel doesn't happen i can quickly restart in very good conditions a bunch of meetings in this city.

Now i'm going to :
Find and book a flight from Kharkov to my country for saturday or sunday.
Bought a train ticket to Kharkov.
Leave here after having my third and last lesson of russian.
Spend one or two days more in Kharkov, spending good time with people i like.
Return to the homeland and spend a quiet week of vacation and have some business to do too. Stop to spend money here in Dnepropetrovsk and keep it for later.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 25, 2011, 12:32:11 PM
Regarding the gal you met who you think is 'the one.'

First, I would tell her how you feel in very strong words.
Then push very hard for her to delay her trip to Moscow.

If she does, then great; you proceed on with her.

But if she doesn't; then I would take this as an indication (but not proof) that she really doesn't have the same feelings toward you.

Now, aside from the above; I think two meetings with the second being 6 hours is a little soon to be finding 'the one.'

I second mostly the advice that Gator has given to you.

+1
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 25, 2011, 12:59:53 PM
"Now, aside from the above; I think two meetings with the second being 6 hours is a little soon to be finding 'the one.'

I absolutely agree. Finding the one till now. It's what i've said : "for the moment".
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on May 25, 2011, 06:08:17 PM

Now i'm going to :
Find and book a flight from Kharkov to my country for saturday or sunday.
Bought a train ticket to Kharkov.
Leave here after having my third and last lesson of russian.
Spend one or two days more in Kharkov, spending good time with people i like.
Return to the homeland and spend a quiet week of vacation and have some business to do too. Stop to spend money here in Dnepropetrovsk and keep it for later.

I admire your commitment to the women headed to Moscow.  What do you tell her?  If it were me, I would inform her of my decision in few words WITHOUT looking like a begging puppy dog. 
 
Crimea is a delightful place.  If you wait for her until July and August, she is more than the "Woman of the Moment"   She is the woman of your summer of 2011.  Hopefully, she is as good as you think (or hope) she might be.
 
Are you sure?  I recall once passing on a ménage à trois in Kiev in 2002 with a 29-yo beauty.  I passed because I was looking for wifey material and she wanted only to have a good time and explore her attraction towards women.   I still think about that opportunity even though it is long gone.  And each time I  kick myself in the ass. :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 25, 2011, 07:38:11 PM

I recall once passing on a ménage à trois in Kiev in 2002 with a 29-yo beauty.  I passed because I was looking for wifey material and she wanted only to have a good time and explore her attraction towards women.   I still think about that opportunity even though it is long gone.  And each time I kick myself in the ass.

And, as well you should (the kick that is).
Looking for wifey material is no excuse to pass this up.
You didn't have to choose her as the wifey.
However, what did you know about the third party?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 25, 2011, 08:14:51 PM
Hey Buddies
We perfectly know that the adventure can be not rewarding and that you have to forge ahead, and you do it sometimes almost blind.

It's why i stopped to visit one because i succeeded one time and failed one time. But the failure let me more bad memorize than the success.

I mean, with experience, you try to work strategically,  by using the road wich offers you the better chances statiscally.
But there is a moment where you are almost bling and you have to make the move.

In this case feeling chemistry (AND SHE gave me big IOI (not only big but many)) , guessing her as woman having later the willing to follow the man, Checking she knows what a relation abroad means, her explaining me for wich reasons she wants such a thing (non materialistic reasons), knowing a good english allowing from the scratch a good understanding and so better chance of succes in time .... MEANING SHE HAS POTENTIAL for marriage (perhaps she will not be the righ woman for me , it's possible; only time will let me to know) I MUST MAKE THE MOVE.

MAKE THE MOVE is to say : you are the ONE, and i will courtship you as the one.
You have two possibilites after :
1/ Courtship her and only her
2/ Make multiple games

Danger of 2/ if she smells, if she feels one sec that you are playing, you are potentially dead. Because she will loose instantly some or many interest for you
If you play 2/ you must play a perfect game (During one travel, visiting two ladies in the same country, I changed the tag of my suitcase by an other to let Miss 2 believe that i was coming directly from my homeland).

As neither of two invest themself deeply, i mean totally (read again what EM has written in her site) the relationship is going nowhere. And when you enter in the UNIQUE mode the girl must follow as soon as possible, if not the relationship is not well balanced.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 25, 2011, 08:44:44 PM

I admire your commitment to the women headed to Moscow.  What do you tell her?  If it were me, I would inform her of my decision in few words WITHOUT looking like a begging puppy dog. 

I tell her : i need to know if we meet or not, because it doesn't make any sense now for me to stay in this city. I'm not a newbie and i had had already some girlfriends and i know you can be the one. But now i NEED to know if we meet or not because i must reschedule all : train to Kharkov, new plane and flat and taxi

Her
Answer : no meeting possible.

I told her ok, i'm going to move to Harkov to see people i like (she knows that i have some acquaintances and of course it's a big social proof in favor of me, letting little suspens like (this man is telling the truth or does he have an other one to see in Kharkov ???) and i will return in my country saturday or sunday.

Then she proposed me to stay in contact, meet in july or august, take time to arrange vacation, she proposed me to go in my favorite dream location (IOI : she wants to go where you dream to go).
 

Crimea is a delightful place.  If you wait for her until July and August, she is more than the "Woman of the Moment"   She is the woman of your summer of 2011.  Hopefully, she is as good as you think (or hope) she might be.


 

Are you sure?  I recall once passing on a ménage à trois in Kiev in 2002 with a 29-yo beauty.  I passed because I was looking for wifey material and she wanted only to have a good time and explore her attraction towards women.   I still think about that opportunity even though it is long gone.  And each time I  kick myself in the ass. :deadhorse:

Time will tell us, i'm not Madame Irma (famous clairvoyante in my country), thank Gator.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on May 26, 2011, 04:40:47 AM
MAKE THE MOVE is to say : you are the ONE, and i will courtship you as the one.
You have two possibilites after :
1/ Courtship her and only her
2/ Make multiple games

Danger of 2/ if she smells, if she feels one sec that you are playing, you are potentially dead. Because she will loose instantly some or many interest for you
If you play 2/ you must play a perfect game (During one travel, visiting two ladies in the same country, I changed the tag of my suitcase by an other to let Miss 2 believe that i was coming directly from my homeland).

Can't really offer you advise (not that you are looking for some) as to what to do now. We here reading this has not been privvy to the discussions you and the lady has had, the body language and so on, so it's impossible to have a strong opinion on that.
 
So it is, as you say, two choices. Either be dead honest about your intentions, desires and plans or be a player. As you know, I'm the former as it's just not "me" to do it any other way. Being deceitful leaves a bad taste in my mouth, not only considering her feelings, but my self worth as well.
 
I don't pass moral judgement though, as each man must answer for himself and stand by his actions. But aside from the moral aspect, I also think it is very difficult to keep her in the dark, if you have something to hide. My opinion on FSU women is that they tend to be rather jealous and therefore ask you questions with a specific reason in mind; to find out if you're real and not playing games and has only her in your mind, IF you have suggested so.
 
Have you and the lady made an agreement to meet in Crimea in August? Perhaps you can have some faith and wait for her, meet her there and spend much more time to get to know her. Then IF it doesn't work, you can try and get some dates with others while still there. But only AFTER it is apparent things doesn't work out with this lady.
 
But perhaps it will. Perhaps she is the woman of your dreams and vice versa. Then being a player and risk losing all that would really be a tragedy.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 26, 2011, 10:35:04 AM

Can't really offer you advise (not that you are looking for some) as to what to do now. We here reading this has not been privvy to the discussions you and the lady has had, the body language and so on, so it's impossible to have a strong opinion on that.
 
So it is, as you say, two choices. Either be dead honest about your intentions, desires and plans or be a player. As you know, I'm the former as it's just not "me" to do it any other way. Being deceitful leaves a bad taste in my mouth, not only considering her feelings, but my self worth as well.
 
I don't pass moral judgement though, as each man must answer for himself and stand by his actions. But aside from the moral aspect, I also think it is very difficult to keep her in the dark, if you have something to hide. My opinion on FSU women is that they tend to be rather jealous and therefore ask you questions with a specific reason in mind; to find out if you're real and not playing games and has only her in your mind, IF you have suggested so.
 
Have you and the lady made an agreement to meet in Crimea in August? Perhaps you can have some faith and wait for her, meet her there and spend much more time to get to know her. Then IF it doesn't work, you can try and get some dates with others while still there. But only AFTER it is apparent things doesn't work out with this lady.
 
But perhaps it will. Perhaps she is the woman of your dreams and vice versa. Then being a player and risk losing all that would really be a tragedy.

Really i like you Natural
 :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:
I cannot myself better explain my mindset, you wrote it PERFECTLY, on each clue.

And yes SHE's proposed by herself to go together in july or in august. How is it possible to have more ? And she want to please me because i have said that i never visited Crimean and i would do so much. In my opinion it's time to calm down (to be alone, in such situation is VERY difficult, you have a lot of doubt : YES we are human !!!)
I"m a player but there is moment to be and a moment to engage yourself in an UNIQUE way, wich of course is the road of the success, elseif you are a compulsory  sex oriented dater or non capable of any engagement.

I'm reading again your post Natural and it's absolutely PERFECT. You understand me on the right sense.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 26, 2011, 11:03:21 AM
No, I was told that it means "shame about the face".

Dude, it is not boat race. It is Butter face.
 
I'm going through all this pages because it is slow here.
 
All I can say so far is: Sick.
 
Get back to you guys when I'm done reading.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 26, 2011, 11:08:48 AM

Dude, it is not boat race. It is Butter face.
 
I'm going through all this pages because it is slow here.
 
All I can say so far is: Sick.
 
Get back to you guys when I'm done reading.

No, the saying is "Nice legs but shame about the boat race"

which means:  "Nice legs but shame about the face"

It is cockney slang, and was verified by NickNick who is from that region.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 26, 2011, 11:11:32 AM
Really i like you Natural
 :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:
I cannot myself better explain my mindset, you wrote it PERFECTLY, on each clue.

And yes SHE's proposed by herself to go together in july or in august. How is it possible to have more ? And she want to please me because i have said that i never visited Crimean and i would do so much. In my opinion it's time to calm down (to be alone, in such situation is VERY difficult, you have a lot of doubt : YES we are human !!!)
I"m a player but there is moment to be and a moment to engage yourself in an UNIQUE way, wich of course is the road of the success, elseif you are a compulsory  sex oriented dater or non capable of any engagement.

I'm reading again your post Natural and it's absolutely PERFECT. You understand me on the right sense.

Relax and enjoy the moment!  If it is meant to be your wishes will come true and you will be together with her in Crimea in July/August!!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 26, 2011, 11:59:18 AM
You mean some guys do like a big ass . . . . not counting some of the tribes in Africa?

Americans and maybe Brits love bony asses. Most of the civilized world loves a nice dramatic ass.
 
Almost there.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 26, 2011, 12:35:39 PM
Wow. Sick. As in, Pat are you a CPA? My goodness, the detail on the planning. Sick. (Good sick, just in case our French ami is not aware of our idioms.)
 
At one point I was going to agree with Mendy regarding the Metrosexual comment. Now I have a better picture. Which brings me to a comment to Patagonie. Too much emphasis to the clothing can give you the wrong portrait with the ladies. People in UA are obssessed with designer clothing. I should say, the players not interested in serious relationships are the ones obssessed. This is why I was going to agree with Mendy's assessment. It can give the ladies the impression of very a superficial man. Specially the shoes. Nice shoes, BTW. A couple of years ago the fad in UA were elongated shoes that would curve up at the tip a la Aladdin. Mercifully, the fad quickly disappeared.
 
Now, let's go to the "meaty" part. Here is a good chance for you to develop something with #one. If she is really going to Moscow or not is irrelevant. My take is that she wants to see how serious you are regarding her. (Ergo, my clothing comments)
 
IF you are serious about her, the rules of the game changed. It's your move now.
 
And then again, I can be completely wrong.
 
@ Gator. I didn't have to kick myself in the ass. I knew better.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 26, 2011, 01:12:50 PM
Relax and enjoy the moment!  If it is meant to be your wishes will come true and you will be together with her in Crimea in July/August!!
Thank you very much Rubicon, everybody needs little chance to success, i hope the stars will shine.
But if these vacations really happen,  :P 8) ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 26, 2011, 01:28:25 PM
Wow. Sick. As in, Pat are you a CPA? My goodness, the detail on the planning. Sick. (Good sick, just in case our French ami is not aware of our idioms.)
 
At one point I was going to agree with Mendy regarding the Metrosexual comment. Now I have a better picture. Which brings me to a comment to Patagonie. Too much emphasis to the clothing can give you the wrong portrait with the ladies. People in UA are obssessed with designer clothing. I should say, the players not interested in serious relationships are the ones obssessed. This is why I was going to agree with Mendy's assessment. It can give the ladies the impression of very a superficial man. Specially the shoes. Nice shoes, BTW. A couple of years ago the fad in UA were elongated shoes that would curve up at the tip a la Aladdin. Mercifully, the fad quickly disappeared.
 
Now, let's go to the "meaty" part. Here is a good chance for you to develop something with #one. If she is really going to Moscow or not is irrelevant. My take is that she wants to see how serious you are regarding her. (Ergo, my clothing comments)
 
IF you are serious about her, the rules of the game changed. It's your move now.

YOUR ARE RIGHT, there is a time to play and there is a time to love, i choiced to move, and I. I'm in Kharkov now, making an halt, and in 29 hours my plane will take off to my homeland. This is not superficiality, this a good sense in thinking, a knowledge of yourself and other people, the balls of making quick decision, and the congrence is to do it, assessing in accordance with your owns values and your goals, inconvenients and advantages of your decision, but with responsability.
 
And then again, I can be completely wrong.
 
@ Gator. I didn't have to kick myself in the ass. I knew better.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 26, 2011, 01:30:59 PM
CPA ?
you mean
Certified Public Accountant ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 26, 2011, 01:36:38 PM
YOUR ARE RIGHT, there is a time to play and there is a time to love, i choiced to move, and I. I'm in Kharkov now, making an halt, and in 29 hours my plane will take off to my homeland. This is not superficiality, this a good sense in thinking, a knowledge of yourself and other people, the balls of making quick decision, and the congrence is to do it, assessing in accordance with your owns values and your goals, inconvenients and advantages of your decision, but with responsability.


Aw, I was hoping that you were going to make an attempt. But, you are the one who talked to her not me. I wish you luck.
 
BTW, if you are in the city, take the Metro to Pushkinska Station. Cafe Paris is off the Metro. Nice place.
 
This is a nice info site in English: http://www.kharkovinfo.com/ (http://www.kharkovinfo.com/)
 
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 26, 2011, 01:37:10 PM
CPA ?
you mean
Certified Public Accountant ?

That would be a yes.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 26, 2011, 01:49:07 PM

Aw, I was hoping that you were going to make an attempt. But, you are the one who talked to her not me. I wish you luck.
 
BTW, if you are in the city, take the Metro to Pushkinska Station. Cafe Paris is off the Metro. Nice place.
 
This is a nice info site in English: http://www.kharkovinfo.com/ (http://www.kharkovinfo.com/)
It's a good idea, why not tomorrow. But if i remember on the plan it's perpendicular to Lenina Square, am i correct ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 26, 2011, 01:51:19 PM

Aw, I was hoping that you were going to make an attempt. But, you are the one who talked to her not me. I wish you luck.
 
BTW, if you are in the city, take the Metro to Pushkinska Station. Cafe Paris is off the Metro. Nice place.
 
This is a nice info site in English: http://www.kharkovinfo.com/ (http://www.kharkovinfo.com/)
An attempt ? To meet others women  ? you mean ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 26, 2011, 02:50:44 PM
For the trip, and to make things clear :

Considering that my seventh meeting can be my match, but as she was leaving  Dnepropetrovsk, i've decided to return to my country by having a halt in Harkov, where i have some acquaintance. Inded Pegasus airlines (thank ManLooking) provides cheaps flights near my city. Wich is convenient for me.

Now it's like a bet, we will see if her interest will endure or not.
In this case we would schedule vacations in Crimean, her proposition. It's possible for me to perform it since july, wich means around five weeks to wait, wich is not a big deal.
If it's doesn't work i should restart from the beginning as any newbie (with my previous experience however,  :P ;D )

I will choice again Dnepropetrovsk, considering not having fish all fishes in this city. The logistic is very good for me here and i found my mark. And i have had good time during my three russian lessons with a young lady teacher. (so now i enjoy to try to understand what is wrote in cyrillic, wich is pretty much interesting for me because my life is improving on a daily basis, outcomes are appreciables)

Now i'm making an internal work to cut her from my mind, in the way to protect me.  This is not an easy job. Better to focus on my business and rest for the second week of vacation. The communication will restart mid june really as she is in Russia now.

Pat
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 26, 2011, 09:36:48 PM

That would be a yes.
No i'm not Muzh. Probably i try to bring a more scientific approach about human things, to decrease (to try) the part of subjectivity.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 27, 2011, 07:32:43 AM
An attempt ? To meet others women  ? you mean ?

Sorry I couldn't get back to you yesterday. No, I mean the girl who said she was visiting her relative in Moscow.
 
Also, you are correct the cafe is perpendicular to Lenina.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 07:35:34 AM
I arrived yesterday at the end of the afternoon after five hours of train with a lady in her 60's who only speaks italian. So with my french, english, very little russian and little arabic, and little spanish we arranged our time in the wagon.
Someone came to pick me up and i had arrenged a two nights renting for a one bedroom flat.
After a little lunch in an under ground asian restaurant my contact came and we spent little time to chit-chat together.
Today big promenade with a little lunch in my favorite restaurant : a self service restaurant wich deliver you a SHIOTT of 50 grns. After i headed to Sumskaya and made a halt in a nice kaфe enjoying the sun and taking some photos of the queens who were walking along the sidewalk.
I took the direction of the park, just in front of the terrace and finally i found what i was searching for a long time : the delphinium stadium.
My god. Really what a delicious afternoon ! I've never seen dolphins in real.
Really professional and totally amazing. Really if your lady is coming with you go for a tour in the delphinium stadium, and if you have childrens of course you should !

Typical event on Kharkov's sidewalks and often in FSU :
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 27, 2011, 07:40:00 AM
No i'm not Muzh. Probably i try to bring a more scientific approach about human things, to decrease (to try) the part of subjectivity.

I'm sorry Patagonie, but it is being lost in translation. I'll try to refrain from idioms and other jokes. My bad.
 
The CPA comment was made because of how precise you were in your preparation, not your profession.
 
Also, I just read that you are considering the lady I referred as #1. Is that correct?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 07:43:08 AM
Dolphiniums, surfing
You need to see it to believe it

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 27, 2011, 07:43:25 AM
I arrived yesterday at the end of the afternoon after five hours of train with a lady in her 60's who only speaks italian. So with my french, english, very little russian and little arabic, and little spanish we arranged our time in the wagon.
Someone came to pick me up and i had arrenged a two nights renting for a one bedroom flat.
After a little lunch in an under ground asian restaurant my contact came and we spent little time to chit-chat together.
Today big promenade with a little lunch in my favorite restaurant : a self service restaurant wich deliver you a SHIOTT of 50 grns. After i headed to Sumskaya and made a halt in a nice kaфe enjoying the sun and taking some photos of the queens who were walking along the sidewalk.
I took the direction of the park, just in front of the terrace and finally i found what i was searching for a long time : the delphinium stadium.
My god. Really what a delicious afternoon ! I've never seen dolphins in real.
Really professional and totally amazing. Really if your lady is coming with you go for a tour in the delphinium stadium, and if you have childrens of course you should !

Typical event on Kharkov's sidewalks and often in FSU :

Where was this pic taken? It looks very familiar.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 07:45:10 AM
The stadium


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 07:47:02 AM
Special FSB Patrol :


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 07:50:22 AM
Ukrainian acrobatic team :



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 07:53:47 AM

Sorry I couldn't get back to you yesterday. No, I mean the girl who said she was visiting her relative in Moscow.
 
Also, you are correct the cafe is perpendicular to Lenina.
Hello Muzh,
You are correct i would make an attempt with this lady.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 07:54:52 AM

Where was this pic taken? It looks very familiar.

Sumskaya of course
 half a mile before Lenina Square
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 07:56:36 AM
Special FSB Patrol :

you cannot see really, because the quality of the photo is too low,
but there are two knifes inside the high heels,  8) ;D :D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 07:58:22 AM

I'm sorry Patagonie, but it is being lost in translation. I'll try to refrain from idioms and other jokes. My bad.
 
The CPA comment was made because of how precise you were in your preparation, not your profession.
 
Also, I just read that you are considering the lady I referred as #1. Is that correct?

Yes Muzh the lady you referred is the number one, and anyways i deleted the six others (saw in Dnepropetrovsk)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 27, 2011, 07:59:37 AM
Yes Muzh the lady you referred is the number one, and anyways i delete the six others (saw in Dnepropetrovsk)

Atlichna!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 08:09:34 AM

I'm sorry Patagonie, but it is being lost in translation. I'll try to refrain from idioms and other jokes. My bad.
 
The CPA comment was made because of how precise you were in your preparation, not your profession.
 
Also, I just read that you are considering the lady I referred as #1. Is that correct?

Yes i'm precise, and we all the material i will have, i could analyze later, later
because i need to cold now. In fact in such human situation you need to let time happen,  to take a step back.
Often we focus on our belly, but there is an other road wich is the empathic. This one is to go under the skin of the other person, and try to understand her demeanor, with theirs doubts and his knowledge of the situation.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 27, 2011, 08:22:59 AM
Yes i'm precise, and we all the material i will have, i could analyze later, later
because i need to cold now. In fact in such human situation you need to let time happen,  to take a step back.
Often we focus on our belly, but there is an other road wich is the empathic. This one is to go under the skin of the other person, and try to understand her demeanor, with theirs doubts and his knowledge of the situation.

Well Mon Ami, this sounds like a plan of attack.
 
Carry on.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on May 27, 2011, 10:37:33 AM
Often we focus on our belly...

Do you mean to ponder about the lint collecting in your stomach navel (meaning to relax and not take anything in life to be very serious) OR to go with one's gut feeling (intuition)
 
 
Quote
This one is to go under the skin of the other person, and try to understand her demeanor, with theirs doubts and his knowledge of the situation.

 :D  In English to get under somone's skin means to pester.  I assume you mean what we call peeling the layers of an onion to understand what makes someone tick (to rest amidst her spiritual mystique - far more profound than her aura).  Such takes time for which their is no substitute.  I hope that it happens in Crimea this summer.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 02:02:28 PM
Before the take off i would introduce you to an interpret-translator who works in Kharkov, she speaks english, french, russian and ukrainian. She has a car and make the usual tuff : transportation, translation, interpreter and finding a flat. Ask her. She is honest and prices are very correct :  www.ukraine-go.com (http://www.ukraine-go.com/).
Her name Olga, you can rely on her.

Pat as soon
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 27, 2011, 03:39:00 PM
:D  In English to get under somone's skin means to pester.
Cole Porter's intepretation ;):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1AHec7sfZ8[/youtube]
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 27, 2011, 04:31:43 PM

Do you mean to ponder about the lint collecting in your stomach navel (meaning to relax and not take anything in life to be very serious) OR to go with one's gut feeling (intuition)
 
 
 :D  In English to get under somone's skin means to pester.  I assume you mean what we call peeling the layers of an onion to understand what makes someone tick (to rest amidst her spiritual mystique - far more profound than her aura).  Such takes time for which their is no substitute.  I hope that it happens in Crimea this summer.

Thank you for this important precision. To pester. I try to improve my english so i enjoy any help, in particular with idioms and so on.
"
Do you mean to ponder about the lint collecting in your stomach navel (meaning to relax and not take anything in life to be very serious) OR to go with one's gut feeling (intuition)"
I rather would mean something like "selfish" (don't understand others behaviors)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 28, 2011, 02:27:18 PM
Hi Everybody.
I took a flight very late at Kharkov, 3:15 ! By Pegasus Airlines, wich is fine for your money, but less for your health. In Istambul i found a fellow citizen. I was expecting to sleep a little  in the airport, before the next connection, but it hadn't been possible, as we spent our whole time, from 5:00 to 10:00 to chit chat with no interruption.
Now i can guess this guy, on his low 60's has been making a WOVO in my opinion. What did he said for his first meeting with FSU : quite a shock, he told me ! He is outmart and funny, in good shape, with an hansome face for his age. He had and continues to perform humanitarian aid task, which is showing his generousness. Behind the social convention i guessed a real interest for FSU women and i let him my phone number, explaining  that i have some contacts in my adress book if he is interested, He is really the sort of guy, divorced, free, kind, correct earning, toughful, who will be a good match for a FSU on her 40's. He made me laugh by telling me that in the airport a gorgious FSU womea on her 40 exactly stared him three times and finally she moved to come by him and seat just next to him. I asked him, and ?
He didn't dare speak to her !  :cluebat:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 28, 2011, 05:55:53 PM
Hi Everybody.
I took a flight very late at Kharkov, 3:15 ! By Pegasus Airlines, wich is fine for your money, but less for your health.

I flew on Pegasus 4 times.  I didn't notice any health problems.  Or were you  referring to the hours?  Was it 3:15 AM that you left Kharkiv?

How did you like the preflight safety film that showed on the TV monitors?   :)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 29, 2011, 12:04:17 AM
I flew on Pegasus 4 times.  I didn't notice any health problems.  Or were you  referring to the hours?  Was it 3:15 AM that you left Kharkiv?

How did you like the preflight safety film that showed on the TV monitors?   :)

 :ROFL:
I mean my health problem,  i found this sort of flight very tiring because you cannot really sleep.

About the preflight safety film, it's the first time i see this type of. It's really very cute and anyways the best way to interest childrens about the safety issues.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 29, 2011, 12:18:26 AM
Prior to a flight have your Doctor prescribe you some Lorazapam/Atavan.  Just do not mix it with any alcohol at all.  You will probably sleep like a baby.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 29, 2011, 12:50:01 AM
Prior to a flight have your Doctor prescribe you some Lorazapam/Atavan.  Just do not mix it with any alcohol at all.  You will probably sleep like a baby.
Yes i have always this sort of things when i travel in FSU. But the time window to get it was too short during the first flight because in itself the flight was very short (and you know that you will be interrupted by the traditionnal "here is your meal". I didn't want to look like Frankestein at this moment. LOL)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 29, 2011, 02:00:47 PM
I know that you are waiting this post for a long time : :popcorn: >:D
 
I mean :
 The date with Blue sweeties
I've examined all the material i have. I have some 20 minutes of recorded material, included some meeting time (wich i got by chance)
I know that you are polite and shy on this forum, and anybody asked me really what happened during the date, so here it is :

 
Don't forget this girl was on my top four in initial list. She scores, in my opinion 8.85
Really tall, shy caracter at first meeting, reach 6'4 easily with high heels. She is really crunchy with a side which push you to play  « i will protect you honey anyways, don't worry, i'm the man».
She seems to have a clear idea of what she wants to get in life, focusing on human beings, wich for me he is a proof of maturity. I can feel this person has spent time in the western life and she is not naive about the good and bad side of our westerns societies.

I asked simple question like "which type of quality are you expecting from a man ?", she answered : "chemistry with my man". She focuses really on human sides.

There is always an excitation around the chase when the hunter is looking a pretty bet. But when you want to get married and as soon you have the choice in your local country and in FSU why to not be interested by who you really want to be with IN THE LIMIT OF YOUR COURT. I feel my court enough wide  to welcome her. So i should have no "buyer remorse" with her.

You need to be comfortable, you need to be proud of you wife, everywhere, anytime. With her it's exactly what i felt, wich wasn't  not true with the six others women. With  the previous one there was always something wrong, something which hold back me to plan myself with them.
I thaught : in specials odds, i know that i would not be comfortable and proud of this one : so forget her !
Or
 i can guess she will be like a big mama in the kitchen with no real other connection with life : boring !


The first meeting happened inside a restaurant near to the agency.
I was arriving from my famous dentist Юлия with 17 minutes late after more than two hours of fight, and a quarter of minutes had been needed to success the escape
Arriving in the agency were present : my date, the director and at least two interpreters. I began to tell to the director : "now i shine like a new penny" wich make laugh everybody in the room given the big mouth i was having at this second with always a huge sensitivity, full of pain each time my tongue brush against my teeth.
After a kind introduction by the director, we left the office and went to the restaurant, alone as my lady has at least very good english skill. She speaks with an russian accent, a little too fast and she doesn't articulate enough in my opinion. Before leaving, i scream 'clunchy' wich had been our joke in the agency as agencies girls are always struggle to know where are these damned key, i cannot prevent myself to scream "clunchies" before i enter or before i leave.
Gilrs usually gigles a lot each time.
During the walk, between the office and the restaurant, i began to talk, leading the conversation. I'm really trained to this sort of things. I explained her that i like her city with this so special island wich mean that you can feel really yourself really quickly in vacation. After a short question about her and her family i talked about mine and about languages, enfeterring directly on babies and theirs futur skills in language and what i want for them about this issue. She said that she want one or two perpaps. In this occasion i insist by focussing the attention of the girl by saying : two ? so  please make it in one shot ith me please, and so we will  be free and can focus about love.
She complimented me about my good english (sign of interest 1)

I continued about acquaintance and friendship letting know her that friendship means a real strong relation. I told her quickly that i have a lot of acquaintances.

We arrived in the restaurant and we sat. She leaned in her seat (IOI 2), all the time.
During the conversation, she touched her hair, at least one time (IOI 3).
 
Staring you secretly whereas that you are not discussing with her (IOI 4)
Dilated pupils (IOI5)
When i asked to put her phone number in my phone she lets her fingers touching mine (IOI6).
I don't remerber but after a discussion i placed a high five and she answer to it
 
And when we want to go to the center as she had something to do after of more than 2 hours of dating, she suddenly proposed to meet at 8 as she has an appointement in little time. As i was free i agreed. This meaned a second full date in the evening (IOI7).
The evening date happened at 8:40, she arrived few minutes late. When she was arriving close to me i was talking to my english teacher for our next meeting. I could see the disappointement on her face when she heard me speaking about schedule for an appointement (IOI8) . I proposed her to make a boat ballad on the Dnepr, which of course is very romantical. She agreed and we began to walk towards the Dnepr. I proposed her to catch a cab, she denied. Few minutes after she missed the step of the sidewalk and i quicly help her with my hand. Two seconds after, when i retired my hand, she seemed disappointed (IOI9)
She stopped few times after and begin to shake her shoe. I worry about her guessing perhaps she hurted her ankle, which is very common with high heels. She denied, and as i proposed again to catch a cab she denied again. She wanted to walk with me.

Unfortunately there was no boat available this evening, and we agreed to walk along the river. I showed her by grabbing her arm what is a french promenade and how to do it. After two hundreds meters we decided to enter in a restaurant, along the river. When we were entering,  i thaught, wow, very beautiful. And wow Pat you can prepare the big notes guy because the bill promise to be $$$$$.
Waiting the command, i begin to play with the little towels, which existed in three colors. Mixing all i said : imagine with these colors a flag for a country. She played quickly (IOI10), and she drop of her mouth a "you are so cute Pat" when i used two towels dressed on the table and put in my hands saying "this is your boat and this is mine, now Blue Sweetie, where are we going ?" (IOI11).
During the restaurant of course she leaned in and smile everytime.
When we finished to eat i asked the bill. I needed ten seconds to understand really what i was reading when i got it.

less than 200 grivnas !

Already now when i'm typing this i cannot believe it. less than 200 grivnas, roughly 25 bucks ! This lady takes care of my money, and yes she had grab a bit before the meeting.
After we went to the pharmacy to buy some medicine for me because i was always suffering from pain.
Just arrived on the sidewalk she grabbed my arm, style french promenade. (IOI12), after 20 seconds, i found more convenient to take her hand. So hand in hand.
In the pharmacy, as i was struggling with notes, she opened her wallet to give the right money (IOI13).
After the pharmacy we decided to find a bar. We spent a long time, hand in hand to find one. Finally we got into in karakoe bar, almost empty, less than six customers with us.

We sat side by side, on the same coach. After few minutes the music was entertaining i decided to stand up and to open the dancefloor.
I really like to dance and it is not a problem for me, i'm absolutely not shy. So let's go for the show.
She was staring me with a big smile. I invited her to come and she came ! (IOI14). I made differents spins in front of her, right and left spins, i could move my shoulders in a spin en a sense and just after the  opposite  sens
We returned on the coach and i began to move with the music. She did the same (IOI15). I can now took her shoulder, let my hand on her thigh.
When a slow began i invited her and she came. We started but unfortunately the music speed up. So we had to stop. But fortunately the DJ understood his mistake as an other couple had joined us and want to dance a slow too.
So we began a slow together. She was not in the tempo, probably having not practicing at all. (but now fellows, she is in the hand of the most famous slow dancer : me  :flowers: )
(Awarded in 1984, 1989 and for the longest kiss in 1997)
 :ROFL:

She wanted to put both her arms around my neck but i prefered to lead the dance as i wanted and stay in the empire style slow, like hand left with her right hand and let her left hand aroung my shoulder while my right one was in her back.

I whispered in her ear :" follow me, just follow me". She slowed down.

She began to float in my hands, i can feel her like flying. I keep her in a sort of cloud where her partner touch her lightly and wrap her totally, and she was wrapped. My right hand went up and down her back, letting her feel slight contact or strong pressure along her spine. She was free, i was never asking the contact but we were like magnets and sometimes this contact happened. She was totally in accordance with me, in this sort of rose cloud,  where you want to escape from all reals worlds, just wanting to float in a dream, and either I.
After the slow we sat again. When she spoke to me she leaned totally and her head came along my shoulder and near to my ear. Her mouth was only far from few centimeters of mine, and it had been not difficult to start the first kiss, but i was not knowing that she had to leave the city soon, and so i was not in hurry.
We danced again, now i was sure either her ankle had been hurted or she had sore feet, but anyways she wanted to dance, to enjoy, to live and to move on the dancefloor, share my energy.

Finally around 1 pm she needed to come back at home.
I payed a bill of 15O grv and tip of 50.

 Really, girls who are reading this post : please i know you have a difficult task : i mean not bring the man in an ugly place and not send him in a five stars too, but believe me if you find the right balance and bring him in a cheap place (between 100 and 300 grv) and additionnaly this place looks smart, i can tell you that you are scoring precious points in the mind of the guy.
If a man don't care at all of his money, either is very rich or not, means he is stupid or he is trying to buy you. Which is not a good future for you anyways.

 I decided to offer my protection and my help by bringing her in front of her building. Funny she was living near to my place of 800 feets.
During the lasts seconds i hold her both hands saying : i had a great time tonight, i like when you are near to me and i want to know you better. This is my qualification.

She was totally staring me. I kiss her right hand using the Old french style and i returned to my flat.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 29, 2011, 05:22:42 PM
After that writeup Pat, many of the women here will be swooning.
And many of the guys also.   8)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 29, 2011, 05:39:26 PM
After that writeup Pat, many of the women here will be swooning.
And many of the guys also.   8)

+100  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: 8) :applaud: :luv:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 29, 2011, 08:41:55 PM
Pat the Romance Novelist!!  Magnifique!  Merveilleux!

 :couple:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on May 30, 2011, 10:41:04 AM
Pat, excellent story.


However, you didn't fall for the old "almost fell so grab me and hold my hand" trick. Just kidding.


You are doing good.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 30, 2011, 10:49:35 AM
you cannot see really, because the quality of the photo is too low,
but there are two knifes inside the high heels,  8) ;D :D

Is that a joke or were you serious?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 30, 2011, 04:11:35 PM
Is that a joke or were you serious?
Rubicon dear buddy
It's a joke of course
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 31, 2011, 05:45:50 AM
Everybody thank for yours compliments
Thank to you now i know a new verb : to swoon.

Next post i'm going to tackle the sad side of inside feelings because life, and in particular the FSU adventure, is really like a mountain hiking, sometimes you feel easy and enjoy, and just after you struggle and are exhausted, almost ready to come back to the car to stop all.
This is the part perhaps the less known of this adventure, but surely not the less important (i would have already done it but my post had been lost after a reset of the computer  :deadhorse: <-- computer) , because we are not always warriors and i don't care of the image or the picture i can convey through my trip.  With my weakness and my strenghs i try to do with who am i.
I've many things to tell you yet and we will speak about, in connection with the trip, my previous GF and the atmosphere around the foreigner system/cash machine, which, in my opinion is the most important plant of failure between your goal and your future wife. (Professionals in named label and private as separate operator).
Kindly Pat.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on May 31, 2011, 11:52:01 AM
Thanks Pat for your excellent observations, keep em coming!   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 31, 2011, 01:53:44 PM
Interesting information :
i've come from my dentist and we checked together the work which has been done one week ago in Dnepropetrovsk. Excellent, the canal had been correctly cleaned and the second teeth had been correctly cured and filled with compound.
So yes technicaly dentists are late of 20 years but they are good in their practice (provided that you meet a good one of course). Total price : if i don't make any mistake : 860 grv. With two radios : one before and one to check at the end.
As you know it can be a very good plan to schedule with your travel some appointements to repare your tooth, it can pay a large part of your expenses.  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 31, 2011, 02:03:55 PM
As you know it can be a very good plan to schedule with your travel some appointements to repare your tooth, it can pay a large part of your expenses.

This has been discussed in several earlier threads.
Some say good things about dentists in FSU and some have had horror stories.
Myself, I wouldn't do it.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Faux Pas on May 31, 2011, 02:06:18 PM
Interesting information :
i've come from my dentist and we checked together the work which has been done one week ago in Dnepropetrovsk. Excellent, the canal had been correctly cleaned and the second teeth had been correctly cured and filled with compound.
So yes technicaly dentists are late of 20 years but they are good in their practice (provided that you meet a good one of course). Total price : if i don't make any mistake : 860 grv.
As you know it can be a very good plan to schedule with your travel some appointements to repare your tooth, it can pay a large part of your expenses.  ;D


Shortly after my wife's arrival to the US she had a severe toothache. Unfortunately, she wasn't on my dental plan at the time because of open enrollment limitations. Silly me I only bought a separate medical insurance not dental when she arrived, so anyway, I took her to my dentist who is quite good and capable. He wouldn't touch it and suggested another, a specialist in another city to deal with the problem. The main problem being the glue/cement used in two root canals that were inadequately performed was so hard and unlike anything used in the west. It required special procedures to open up, correct the root canal and fix the teeth


My wife was floored. The root canals were performed less than a year earlier and by the best dentist in Tomsk. She paid $800 total for both teeth. It took $4000 to correct it.


Hopefully it works out for the best for you Pat but don't count those savings just yet.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 31, 2011, 02:12:53 PM

Shortly after my wife's arrival to the US she had a severe toothache. Unfortunately, she wasn't on my dental plan at the time because of open enrollment limitations. Silly me I only bought a separate medical insurance not dental when she arrived, so anyway, I took her to my dentist who is quite good and capable. He wouldn't touch it and suggested another, a specialist in another city to deal with the problem. The main problem being the glue/cement used in two root canals that were inadequately performed was so hard and unlike anything used in the west. It required special procedures to open up, correct the root canal and fix the teeth


My wife was floored. The root canals were performed less than a year earlier and by the best dentist in Tomsk. She paid $800 total for both teeth. It took $4000 to correct it.


Hopefully it works out for the best for you Pat but don't count those savings just yet.
Thank you for this valuable information and sorry for you for this extra expense. I would give more information later about the cement used in Dnepropetrovsk as i asked a metal crown.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 01, 2011, 03:39:26 PM
 Hi
I don't know you, but me, each time after my return from FSU i always feel sad during few days, and in particular each time i've had a promising relation.
The dechirure is something particular, and more when you are leaving a lady in the beginning of the relationship. It depends of the solidity of the relationship for sure.
In my situation you should know that for the moment i have no news from blue sweeties, nada, zero.
Ok fellows, i stop you, i know what you want me to say --> FLAG ORANGE.
So my work had been quickly around H+72 to cool  down and to turn me off emotionnaly.
It's the work to do, the way to go. Because i'm not this sort of spotty teenager and i know the law. I remember few years ago when i was in a big breakdown. In such case you loose the north, you loose the pace and you try to find the compass and you don't, curling to loss the control, I REMEMBER my favorite sentence : " the most urgent is to do nothing". It's the sentence to remind, the words which must flash on the 20' screen of your computer.
I mean when the odds put you in the zero state, the west culture manages it with a huge difficulty. The wait is not at all something in our culture. The acceptance is the contrary of action. You are always  thinking that you can do something but you act only to exist, which can interfere negatively with your goals and yours interests. Because the most terrible for a everybody is because we are  afraid of heights.
This girl hasn't given any news. And what ? What can i do ? Send the FBI ?

 :ROFL: :naughty:
I sent few SMS and try to call from France. No answer.
So now i know what i have to do , i'm going to tell you :

   Unfortunately in the common life (here in rwd we can say that a lot of OP are not common, of course, in view of the stake) i see a lot of people who are suffering their life more than they  lead it. I see many people staying stucked for example in a long term relationship, knowing for example that their partner is not at all an adequate person, they know it, but they cannot move. Or They are staying in an unsatisfactory job but without trying to change.  They don't want enter into the risk, which is the countepart of the success.
It's the same for a lot of guys who are going in FSU, they think they manage their travel but in fact no. It's why it's better to stay in control during travel by dividing ressources : i mean the girl, backup B for those who try WOVO, adress of agency 1 in case of if you try a WOVO, the interpreter, phone of interpreter 2 in case of,  the rental agency in his driver. Each time that you let odds take control for a large part of your travel you are going nowhere. Why ? Because we are lazy, it's easier to let you in the flow rather to fight against it.
   I saw many guys, after date 2 ou 3 with a girl, they feel sad because they say Anna don't know what she want, nothing really happened. In general it's because they don't know exactly what they want, and they have no really idea of how to assess the progress of the relation. If you don't know where you want to go in the relation, don't ask to the girls it's not their job, it's your !
       I can say to you that each time with a girl i had been ready to lose the relation in 90% the relationship had grown !
 
   My strategic plan with this girl is very simple :
   Mid june she should come back in her city. The 16 if i have no news i have a meeting scheduled for a long time with two girls and one has a marvellous ass, have you seen a Ferrari Testarossa from behind ? She has almost the same curves, It will time to book a place in Monza's paddock, we will see.
   Deadline : 20 june, if no news i will plan my second travel in Dnepropetrovsk ? Simple no ?
   To success, you know, you need to have the odds, you know it perfectly, it can make all the difference. Do you know why i'm a little angry ? Because i make a perfect plan : 17 days (or 18 or more but after you must keep some vacation for the following travels to stick to your love affair) is really the time to take because you have 7 days to see all your first meetings, see your preferences a second time, and with the short liste you still have TWO weeks end to spend with your lady (or your short list).
And believe it, i did this plan in september 09 and guess what, just 4 days after my arrival my lady, whith who i really match (and she was very interested), was saying to me that she needed to go abroad in vacation. And this travel, in Dnepropetrovsk the same happened.
 :exploding: :exploding: :exploding: :barf:

 
   But by the ways, fellows where is the problem ?
   Have you noticed that often WE are often the problem. I mean we see problems where they aren't. And sometimes you make it, so they happen.
   Try to use the empathic way and change our skin, you want to follow me ?
   Ok next next  (next is poetry, you need it everybody, you speak too much of flight and $)  post (i don't forget that we have a lot of things to speak as previous GF and the dirty part of the business around the international dating) we will change of skin, ok ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 01, 2011, 04:37:43 PM
je reprends l'auto-strade à contre sens
J'envoies 240 dans la courbe ascendante
et j'entends le son dans l'espace intérieur
s'exhiber en tenue de soirée
I can see the plane burning in the sunshine
I feel right because the day shine in the moonlight
After the rain, i let the overdrive until the patrol has gone
Je tire trois cartouches de givre en bordure de mer
et j'étaye les couches de gypse dans la clairière claire
qui laisse à l'idéal surgir la lisière des fantasmes
Je n'aurai jamais cru que mourir fut ressurgir
et que ma peine dans le couchant de l'océan
fut précaire comme l'idéal le fut à l'arc boutant
et la travée de chêne vierge dans la trouée
et que le DH88 fut une comète qui m'emporterait dans le ciel
Je désire dis tu
Tu me dis que le je n'a pas de rigueur
mais quand je reprends le clavier
composite de cristal
dans l'ouverture de la cathédrale
je joins mes doigts au saillant de l'art roman
et de dérives de blondes orbitales en vaines mondaines
pendant que vous étiez toute seule dans la chambre funéraire
Je revois le transatlantique dans la trouée du Pacifique
Et maintenant que nous sommes seuls au préau
Je revois tes doigts d'amarante dans la conque de mon enfance
et je n'aurais jamais cru qu'il fut possible de descendre à l'équerre
le long d'une vie empreinte de tant de féminité
et de vivre la sèvre onirique, des nuits satiriques,
When a lady in the night, during a kick flip, is leaving the way needed to be
After the loop you must fill the complementary document
if you want to escape from the earth.
I will never know the name of the old mystery
But i can see in the fog of the river the knights arising from the Mordor.

Pat
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on June 01, 2011, 04:52:17 PM
The dechirure is something particular, and more when you are leaving a lady in the beginning of the relationship.
Should we call you Pat-Agonie now ;D?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on June 01, 2011, 08:35:46 PM
Many of our regulars often are quick to critize others saying 'they can't make a choice, are always looking  for the next gal, etc.'

Now here, we see a man who did make a choice; but the gods were not kind  to him.

They sent his chosen gal away; and we even learn that this has happened to Pat before.

I feel for you Pat and the pain you are enduring now.  I hope you can find some way  to ease the pain.

Best to you.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 02, 2011, 02:27:45 AM
Should we call you Pat-Agonie now ;D ?
:ROFL:
No Sandro, Fortunately i'm not.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 02, 2011, 02:58:25 AM
I was saying in my post 234 that each time the relationship with a FSU woman don't progress or if there is a problem you must have a plan as, contrary to the locals one, time will not help in the long term. Too many variables can appear. And you must stick to your plan elseif you are waisting your time, and so your life. Plan means deadline, and action.

For the moment, i'm in a unpleasant position : i'm waiting, not knowing what will happen AT ALL.
In general the common way for people is to try to reduce their anxiety, BECAUSE we need to be validated as human (tell me i'm beautiful, tell me i'm strong, tell me i'm intelligent, tell me i'm interesting, tell me i'm the best....). Some a lot, some a little. BECAUSE humans don't like the unknow, the uncertainty.

I would say, rather than to try to control external odds i prefer to work on my internal world. Life learnt me that it's more easy to change yourself rather than to change others. And surprisingly, by changing you are triggering something in others' demeanor. True ! Unbelievable but true.

My way is
1/ to disengage me emotionaly
2/ decrease my level of interest for her progressively in time or cease it
3/ Prepare an other plan

To finish it happens sometimes (it happened recently with a local one) that you win a women, you have a big connection, you make  a projection together (have a drink, go to the club, hiking .... get married if it is a FSU) and suddenly she escapes and flees.
Because 1/ you raise her at a so high level during the date that she is NOT this person she has become during your interaction. Often she is not capable to maintain the identity of a very sexy girl, merry, joking girl, dancing girl, feminine girl, BECAUSE for example in the daily life she spend a lot of her life looking the tv  and generally avoid to take decision (procratination), in her private life she is quite not really a funny person on a daily basis. .
2/ The social pressure is high because she begins to speak with her friends (or family) about what happening with you and what are the projection, and of course these persons are saying : you are foolish, you know him from two hours, and tatati and tatatata. Already, in usual time girls are not really self confident so now you imagine !
I'm explaining this because sometimes you have a great interaction with a woman and you can however lose her. In general it's a problem of comfort, you need to spend more time with her, or to decrease your seduction level a little. It can be know as buyer's remorse but not always

But remember i was saying
 "Try to use the empathic way and change our skin, you want to follow me ?" (post 234)

  Remember you let a lady at one o clock in the morning, and at this moment her interest is maximal.
The following day she receives your whole introduction, her interest raises again. Despite her job and the need to pack all, she finds the time to read it (9 pages) and to answer you sweetly.
The next day when you are disappointed to not meet her again because she needs time to pack an discuss with her sister she assures you (or reassures you ?) that we will keep in touch and she proposes you to take days off to go to Crimean in vacations (your preferred destination : proof that she really listened you because you had told her that you really wish to visit this area).
She is going to see her sister and she knows that you have decided to return earlier in your country, because you have said and demonstrated that it's HER, i repeat, for her it's happened : You are the guy with who she is having chemistry and you elected her. For a woman it's very important, they believed in this sort of thing. She is elected, by you, by the destiny (ten years ago an aunt said to her that she will get married with a tall foreigner with beautifuls hands and she never forgot the prediciton, you never know the power of this sort of things)

Now why she doesn't give any news ? Ah Ah Ah, i don't know ?
I think she is a voiced women, i'm pretty sure (some women prefer write, some prefer to speak)
Perhaps she is with an other fellow, an ukrainian/russian businessman who lives between Moscow and Ukraine. Or her time vacation is splitted between her sister and a foreigner suitor (2 weeks with her sister and one with the guy). How can we know ?

Do you believe really this sort of woman is alone, without any suitors ? Don't be naïve, of course, not. It is not the nature of the woman, and this one is in at least one marriage agency and it is the beginning of the year for the chase for every foreigners (us).

So it's simple it doesn't matter if she is with her sister or not. With a suitor or not, or she got F.... every night by an other fellow. No, really. It's more simple.

If she always really proposes me some vacation together (and i can be free in the first mid of july) it means that i'm  entering in the competition and i'm totally worth on it. And believe me she will remember of this vacation i can tell you !!! Because for Crimean i have already my game plan (and of course it will begin before the real event).  ;D :D

So i repeat : it's very simple, just two weeks to wait (make sports, make my business, improve my skills in english and russian).
And of course, give her almost no news now.
YOU CANNOT reward a women who gives you any news by sending her always a high level of interest, of course, it will be the most stupid thing to do. And above all, doing this, you are working against you.



 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on June 02, 2011, 10:16:05 AM
I'm sorry to hear this girl is silent on you Pat. Who knows what's going on? It's just speculation. Let's hope she gets in touch with you real soon and that the reason she did not before is a good one. Keep up the spirits Pat  :D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on June 02, 2011, 10:59:29 AM
When I contacted my wife for the first time, she took a whole month to reply back to me. I replied the same day and it took another month for her to reply to me. On my third email to her I simply stated that if she wanted to know me to give me a phone nmbere where I can call her because if I had to wait a month for each reply I was going to die of old age before I ever meet her in person.
 
I received an email the next day with a phone number.
 
Just saying.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 02, 2011, 11:45:00 AM
I'm sorry to hear this girl is silent on you Pat. Who knows what's going on? It's just speculation. Let's hope she gets in touch with you real soon and that the reason she did not before is a good one. Keep up the spirits Pat  :D
You are right it's pure speculation. So it's time to disconnect and to be patient, but with a deadline of course. Thank Natural for your support.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 02, 2011, 11:50:59 AM
When I contacted my wife for the first time, she took a whole month to reply back to me. I replied the same day and it took another month for her to reply to me. On my third email to her I simply stated that if she wanted to know me to give me a phone nmbere where I can call her because if I had to wait a month for each reply I was going to die of old age before I ever meet her in person.
 
I received an email the next day with a phone number.
 
Just saying.
Muzh you make me laugh with your story "I was going to die of old age before I ever meet her in person"
 :ROFL:
However she has a phone, she has an email and i have these contact details. I know ukrainian girls don't pick up because of roaming when they are in Russia, and it's not cheap, and a lot of people (almost all ?) have prepaid card.
As Natural has said it's just speculation, but for sure her explanation, if events allow such a thing, would be interesting anyways.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on June 02, 2011, 11:58:02 AM
Muzh's comments just reminded me of the vast differences that can exist between persons regarding need or desire to communicate.

This is irrespective of who they are communicating with.

Some people are talkers, some are writers, etc.  Some are neither.

Some want to reply to messages as soon as possible, some always put off replying as long as possible.

I would think that there has to be some relationship between timely communication and romantic interest; but I don't think the relationship is linear.

That is to say, just because a person doesn't reply in a timely fashion doesn't mean they have zero interest in you; although it could mean that.

I have one very good male friend.  He is the greatest guy ever on a day to day basis and will provide any help I or his other friends need, etc.  But, he sometimes can disappear for weeks at a time and never tells anyone that he was even planning a trip.  Despite myself and others telling him over several years how disconcerting this is  . . . .  he professes to see nothing wrong with his behavior and doesn't understand why we would even be thinking about him when he is gone since he always reestablishes contact when he returns.

Out of sight; out of mind.  But when near; very much in mind.

Just another of the compatibility issues when looking for a mate.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 02, 2011, 12:41:25 PM
Muzh's comments just reminded me of the vast differences that can exist between persons regarding need or desire to communicate.

This is irrespective of who they are communicating with.

Some people are talkers, some are writers, etc.  Some are neither.

Some want to reply to messages as soon as possible, some always put off replying as long as possible.

I would think that there has to be some relationship between timely communication and romantic interest; but I don't think the relationship is linear.

That is to say, just because a person doesn't reply in a timely fashion doesn't mean they have zero interest in you; although it could mean that.

I have one very good male friend.  He is the greatest guy ever on a day to day basis and will provide any help I or his other friends need, etc.  But, he sometimes can disappear for weeks at a time and never tells anyone that he was even planning a trip.  Despite myself and others telling him over several years how disconcerting this is  . . . .  he professes to see nothing wrong with his behavior and doesn't understand why we would even be thinking about him when he is gone since he always reestablishes contact when he returns.

Out of sight; out of mind.  But when near; very much in mind.

Just another of the compatibility issues when looking for a mate.

Very good post ManLooking, you are right we are very different. I think her message, before leaving Dnepr, was in substance : (i use your owns words) "Out of sight; out of mind.  But when near; very much in mind", time will show if this one is validated in fact
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on June 02, 2011, 12:54:43 PM
I don't know Pat but, women like to be chased after. NOT stalked, chased. It shows them your interest in her. Something like a short SMS saying "I'm thinking of you" and all that sweet nonsense can go a long way.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 02, 2011, 03:15:50 PM
I don't know Pat but, women like to be chased after. NOT stalked, chased. It shows them your interest in her. Something like a short SMS saying "I'm thinking of you" and all that sweet nonsense can go a long way.
I did it Muzh, since our (me for Kharkov, her for Moscow) departure from Dnep i send 3 SMS the 26,
28 and 31 (and i tried a call also the 31). The last one finished by "i'll be please to know how you are". I think it's enough now.
You are right they don't like at all to be stalked.
But about they like to be chased after, i have an other theory, and an appropriate practice, and for what i've seen, in the west,  i can say this new one is really really more successful since three years than the years before. 
Really it costs almost nothing in money and in time to her to go in an internet shop, and write 3 lines in an email.
Time will show. But however it's an orange flag.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on June 02, 2011, 07:53:30 PM
Pat, another aspect of  this.

Just suppose . . . she has been on dates with several foreign guys.

And many of these foreign guys said: "I will come back to see you again."

And most of these foreign guys did not come back.

Now factor in she only saw you twice.

Perhaps you are expecting too much given her possible prior experiences.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 03, 2011, 12:41:59 PM
Pat, another aspect of  this.

Just suppose . . . she has been on dates with several foreign guys.

And many of these foreign guys said: "I will come back to see you again."

And most of these foreign guys did not come back.

Now factor in she only saw you twice.

Perhaps you are expecting too much given her possible prior experiences.

Interesting.
I've a very suspicious side and on other hand i have a commited sentimental side too. There is one thing i really like with those FSU women : i mean they are open, they are new, they are ready to go, they want to live, they are not so tormented than their western counterparts.
Of course i don't know her previous experiences, but really the guy who don't take time to make a second trip would be really stupid. She is really crunchy.






Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 04, 2011, 05:58:13 AM
Little summarise for people who are jumping on the train :
Patagonie went to Dnepropetrovsk, after a good preparation, and took a fee with an agency in this city. After 6 meetings, he met a valuable lady who showed, during the 6 hours of their two meetings, a huge interest. But the lady was leaving the city just after the meeting. So Patagonie decided to return to his homeland, stopping all others meetings as he is not a newbie and as he thinks that the lady is a good challenger. Since theirs departures Patagonie has received any news from the lady wich is irritating, and show an orange flag.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 04, 2011, 09:58:10 AM
In Kharkov i called my ex girlfriend who was unfortunately unavailable.
We had had a longer discussion last week together, after my return in France.
In september 09 i was in Kharkov and met her. She is a very nice person, simple (and for me it's a quality), with an anchored personality.
The problem had been our age difference and after one month, knowing that i was scheduling a second meeting, parents had become involved. Knowing the age difference they said stop. Only daughter, living at home's parents, you  can guess the rest.
She was pleased to hear after nine months. And she asked me, but Pat you call me and you are not angry. I said, no, why ? I'm not angry. It's not my fault, it's not her fault.
And she asked me : how do you find my english now ?
I said to her : it's obvious that it has improved. She is proud to have worked on it.
We agreed to meet in Kharkov if i come back in this city. For me each time shared with a FSU person is something interesting and i enjoy it. I like people, i like the culture, and i'm fond of understand and have a maximum of informations.
Interesting information, last year she was the only FSU girl i know who is not having internet, and not having a mailbox. I hope she has subscribed one because it's really basic.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Vincenzo on June 04, 2011, 12:09:32 PM
Agency girls don't hesitate to lie.
Instead of saying, "I don't like you", they say, "I have to travel, my mom is sick, etc."

Can an agency gather a group of wonderful ladies who will entertain an "important" man from the West? Sure. The agency will tell them, "We're 99% sure that he will reject you because we'll also show him young models. However, when he'll ask you for a sex test drive, make up an excuse and leave him."

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Jumper on June 04, 2011, 12:49:29 PM
Agency girls don't hesitate to lie.
Instead of saying, "I don't like you", they say, "I have to travel, my mom is sick, etc."

Can an agency gather a group of wonderful ladies who will entertain an "important" man from the West? Sure. The agency will tell them, "We're 99% sure that he will reject you because we'll also show him young models. However, when he'll ask you for a sex test drive, make up an excuse and leave him."

 
Huge generalization there.
 
You might want to qualify that with
*some women signed up in agencies* will do this, or that..
 
It is something men should be aware of,
 but I know a lot of women signed up with some marriage agency ,that would not dream of doing what you suggest.
 
 While they *might* make up some excuse to let a man that they did not like down easy..
 
It generally wouldn't be from the dark motivation of playing some agency games ,with the men they meet.
 If meeting a good man,that they liked, They  would certainly pursue a relationship with him,and  to marriage if they both wanted.It is afterall why many of them signed uop in the first place, despite 90% of them being passed over and seldom if ever  contacted since they aren't 20 yo models.
 
 
 What you describe happens, but it is normally quite clear, and is mostly played by the very young girls at an given agancy.
 
Could a more mature women also play this silly game?
absolutely!! and  i know of a few that do,but they are by FAR are in the minority,not the *average women * signed up at an agency.
 
The problem is most men chase the small percent of very young, very attractive agency *players*.
In that scenario and context, your generalization is far more accurate.
but i do not think it is  accurate for "agency girls"(women signed up at a marriage agency)  as a general rule.
 No matter their initial motivation for signing up,
 most are single, and most would date and marry a decent man they met ,that they hit it off well with.
I never had any problem finding sincere women at all.
It isn't rocket science,and as corrupt as the agencies often are, it still isnt all that difficult to meet sincere women signed up with them.
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 04, 2011, 01:03:39 PM
i keep in touch too with my ex bielorussian girl for one year.
To show you guys, that some woman are really hard worker.
For one year now she's studying my language and her knowledge of the language is already amazing, knowing she has a top job and they are crazy in her firm.
She has not only learnt a third language (she is very good in english too) but also she aims to restart studies in France at 34. Yes you read she is doing this thing. I'm actually helping her to find the goods documents and i will do my best to help her later. She is a very talentuous woman, highly intelligent for what i saw.
Some guys are telling FSU woman are like their western counterpart, more beautiful in average they grant. I would say for the moment, in average, i say IN AVERAGE, i've found FSU women more intelligent, more educated and of course more beautiful. This my opinion, perhaps i will change later.

I had had in the past a local girlfriend who had a very high level in mathematics and even in sport, but it had been in the detriment of her feminity and in the detriment of humans' relations.

Just to say i highly appreciate people who triy to improve their life and who struggle for (of course without dispossess others). And here just to show two examples of girls who are improving theirs lifes.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Vincenzo on June 04, 2011, 01:14:48 PM
I would reemphasize the main point: an agency girl who doesn't like a gentleman, doesn't reject him immediately. She replies to his letters, goes out with him even when she's out of his league.
It stops the gentleman from checking other real women.

It's just not possible to quickly find 20 decent girls who are interested in a foreigner. 90% are just for the crowd.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Jumper on June 04, 2011, 02:14:58 PM
I would reemphasize the main point: an agency girl who doesn't like a gentleman, doesn't reject him immediately. She replies to his letters, goes out with him even when she's out of his league.

Hmm, and a few men I know  have been rejected in the first three minutes?  (facet,etc)
Now how'd that ever happen? ;)
 
I once had one that never even came over the to the
restaurant table.. :)
decided i was some kind of *player* from a distance and called the 'terp to cancel..
(I did see her looking in the window ..lol)
Must have been my purple zoot suit and top hat with the big white feather.  :P
 
 
Overall I would  agree that some can play the game you describe, but to attribute it to all agency women seems weird,and i'm not sure it applies at all to Pats particular case.
 
She could be, but I doubt she's *agency diva*  playing him,
she could send an occassional SMS if she wanted to string
 him along.Mobile phones  do work in Moscow after all ;)
 
I'd far more gather she has other interests..
she may get back to pat, she may not, but right now he isnt a priorioty.
and really why should he be? they had one meeting.
 
Pat recognizes that well.
He is biding his time, and letting things simply play out,
thats really all that can be done, and all that should be done.
It should happen naturally or it was never meant to be.
 In the meantime , if i was him i wouldnt let any moss grow on me.
 
 Anyway, the motivation of any woman,  to not completely close the door, isn't always agency related,it can be cultural and economics driven..I feel few RW a foriegn man met thru any method would not  act much different when it came to the specific scenario of not entirely closing the door.
Women have led men on (and vice versa)  for years lol..for multitudes of reasons..
 You think agencies always need to be the deep dark motivator?
 
I do agree they can be,and particularly with the young model like set that makes the agency money.
 
 
Quote from: Vincenzo
It's just not possible to quickly find 20 decent girls who are interested in a foreigner. 90% are just for the crowd.

I understand you are down on agencies, that's fine.
 
There are plenty of other ways to meet ,and I encourage those as well.
 
 
but to clarify agencies-
 
 First-  I would not really need to find 20 for one visit.
That seems a very arbitrary number? :)
 
Second-
Define quickly?
1 day?
2 weeks?
4 weeks?
 
Given just normal prepartion time for any trip there, I could find ten sincere women , easily,  even in the worst agency in the worst scammer city you can name. Again it is not rocket science.
 
 This does not mean I would connect with them, or them with me, it means they were sincere in their interest to meet or marry a decent man.
 
Not sure where you are looking, or what experience you have, but yours is the  total opposite of my own.
 
Outside of the small percentage of 19-22 yo models ,who likely get 90% of the attention and contacts..
 
The rest of the women signed up with an agency are generally quite sincere when actually meeting a foriegn man.
Odds are great they never have in most provinciak cirties, if they arent amoungst those select few young models.
 
 Generally it is up to the man to screw it up,
and far too often he is a misfit, insecure, or simply weird,  and does.
 
In my experiencve this is just as likely scenario, as a woman playing some agency game with a man.
 
Beware the agency games , they certainly exist.
They are typically played by a small core group that works for the agency, the rest of the women signed up know the score, choose to ignore it and deal with the reality of the FSU, its just how it is! and are simply signed up there.
They are sincere if they get the opportunity to meet a decent guy.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 04, 2011, 03:07:05 PM
I like your post AJ. We are far from the divas of 18-22 or even less 25 as she is 30 (she is pretty so she has surely more choice than others, it's a natural rule).
 
 " In the meantime , if i was him i wouldnt let any moss grow on me." I imagine that you want to say : take action with the locals, or prepare an other plan ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Jumper on June 04, 2011, 03:21:08 PM
Pat,
basically yes.
 
To not sit idle and only wait.
 
It means to do exactly what you are doing, going on with life,with your interests,and if you meet an interesting woman , to date her.
 
If this woman contacts you again,or you her after her designated return,  of course why not see her and see what becomes of this?
 
but in the meantime , there is  no reason to really think about it, or modify your normal routine or life.
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Vincenzo on June 04, 2011, 03:52:25 PM
Quote
Outside of the small percentage of 19-22 yo models ,who likely get 90% of the attention and contacts..
No. The most sought-after group is 25-35 year-old women, attractive, without kids, and with good English.
Does it sound like the lady he is waiting for?

If a guy is 25 and has money, he can find  young and beautiful girls everywhere, mamba is full of them.
If he is 45 and has some wisdom, he will look for women around 30. But it's much more difficult.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 04, 2011, 04:03:06 PM
Pat,
basically yes.
 
To not sit idle and only wait.
 
It means to do exactly what you are doing, going on with life,with your interests,and if you meet an interesting woman , to date her.
 
If this woman contacts you again,or you her after her designated return,  of course why not see her and see what becomes of this?
 
but in the meantime , there is  no reason to really think about it, or modify your normal routine or life.

AJ we totally agree
 
To complete i  can say now that i'm stopping to send SMS. I sent three from France and one from Kharkov, and really it's enough. You mustn't reward a woman when she has a bad demeanor. :deadhorse:
 
I would have send this few hours ago, but  really this is stupid, this only a sign of interest wich shows that she is the prize and you the little dog              "XXXXXXX I find quite strange that you have never answered since my departure. I found that Five Stars is a serious agency so i will restart with them as i have vacation in july. I'm going to buy my tickets soon. So tell me if you want to do something Pat"
 
I like this post because he is short, all is said, all is concise and you show your control, Patagonie is acquiring again his frame. And the little thing funny is that she don't know when i will buy the tickets exactly, so she can believe it's too late.
 
BUT send this is not so intelligent. You are always in a low position in fact. Indirectly you are asking a comfirmation, you let her the power.
 
 :welcome: The better is to keep quiet, and to do others things like say AJ "but in the meantime , there is  no reason to really think about it, or modify your normal routine or life."
 
 The scoop i can give you now is my secret agenda (this girl had one, me too :clapping: ).
 
 You know i'm the guy who takes decision. So it's very simple : i've some vacation in the beginning of july and i will go in Dnepropetrovsk, with the same agencies, perhaps not exactly the same amount of vacation, but surely 10 days.
 
 She will return from Moscow the 16 june, and me in my head i will buy my tickets the 18 maximum. So it's very simple juste after her return in Dnepropetrovsk if she doesn't send news, i would buy my tickets 48 hours after her arrival.
 And for the locals, i've not a lot of time but if it's possible to enjoy i would enjoy.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 04, 2011, 04:25:59 PM
Hi fellows
 
 You have only 12 days to wait for knowing :
 
 Blue Sweeties : will she contact me or  not.
 
 The travel at Dnepropetrovsk. It will happen  if she don't contact me during the two following days of her return.
 
 So finally it's easy, i have a lot of to do here for the moment, i have an unteresting date the 18, and in one month, i will be again in Dnepropetrosk, wich is not an unpleasant city. And perhaps a trip avec the lady, we don't know
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: JohnDearGreen on June 04, 2011, 04:56:59 PM
Hi fellows
 You have only 12 days to wait for knowing :
 Blue Sweeties : will she contact me or  not.
Maybe she is just keeping you on the hotseat for a while for being one of those indispicable VM types.  Playing hard to get, flexing her muscles, exercising her powers.  Maybe she will let you out of jail soon.  Just a few more days.  You'll have done your time.  Out of the can.  A reformed man.


OTOH, maybe she just left her charger at home.


Good luck.


[youtube]2peHybUNg9Y[/youtube]
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Jumper on June 04, 2011, 05:46:21 PM
No. The most sought-after group is 25-35 year-old women, attractive, without kids, and with good English.
Does it sound like the lady he is waiting for?

The most sought after in general?
The ones most likely to play the agency game to alluded  to ?
 or the most *sought after* by those who have researched things a bit more carefully,
have some prior experience and might actually travel?
 
We will have to agree to disagree.
 in over a decade of being involved,knowing agency owners, etc. 90% of attention is placed on a very select few women, mostly very young and very attractive.
This is pretty much regardless only keyboard romeo's or men actually traveling.
 
Certainly a single childless , beautiful woman with good english skills between 25 and 35 will get a share of that attention.They may even play an agency game.
If refering to Pats romantic interest , perhaps it applies? who is to know.
 
 You original simply stated  *Agency girls* will behave a certain way.
I replied not feeling it was an accurate generalization.
 
Now you are specifying the agency girls and be beautiful, 25-35 , good english and childless.
 My reply was to *agency girls* behavior  in general, not
the likely behavior of the  top banner ad girls,
 or the beauitiful , with great english skills and childless.
 
The bulk of *agency girls* do not fit the criteria you listed.
If sticking strickly to such criteria, then you can't expect to
state how *agency girls* actually are IMHO.
 
 The same 33 year old , attractive woman,
yet  with a child and limited english, and the agency scenerario you portray is very unlikely.
The irony is ,she is by far the majority of *agency girls*
 
Quote
If a guy is 25 and has money, he can find  young and beautiful girls everywhere, mamba is full of them.
If he is 45 and has some wisdom, he will look for women around 30. But it's much more difficult.

It is only difficult if he limits his selection criteria out of his normal dating range?
he can certainly choose to do so..
 
Your example is simply the same domestically as well?
Locally there are generally more single women under 25 than above that age.
 
 A 25 year old man is the same age as the bulk of the single women in his country, regardless which country.
And generally he is dating  women 20 to 27 , and he
will  most generally attract someone that fits his own physical looks and attractiveness unless some substantial other factor weighs in, like a lot of money or a unique personality.
 
Your 45 year old example is already looking at someone 30..
that is 15 years younger..?
 
If you really think the 45 yo man  kept his criteria the same as the 25yo man,
Dating the same age range, the same relative attractiveness/education..that  he would have substantially more difficulty..
then  I'm wondering what country you visited?
 
There is no shortage of single 40 to 47yo women in the FSU.
The 45 year old man would have little difficulty at all in finding sincere women.If he was a decent man, enjoyed family , and respected other peoples children, gainfully employed,and lived there 6 months he would literally have to beat them off his front door with a stick.
 
 
Now, if he wants to find a 30 yo model, childless, with great english.. he is choosing to restrict his chances , and this depends on his own merits.
 
 
BTW- the wealthy 25yo? if he is western man visting FSU?
in my opinion he can have a great time, plenty of girls to date!
I think you'd be surprised though at just how many  would turn him down as a *player* , or never consider him marriage material, too young, with wealth and too many distractions and chances of him dallying in their minds.
He could find someone, of this there is little doubt,
but he would have his own set of difficulties.
 A 30 to 35 yo guy likely has the upper hand in your scenario.
 
 
Pat, sorry for the  :offtopic:
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Vincenzo on June 04, 2011, 10:25:54 PM
She didn't play any games. Did she say that she loved Patagonie? No.
Did she act as a woman in love? No.

A woman in love tries her best to show her interest to the lover: she postpones all trips, parties, classes; she writes numerous emails, SMS messages, etc.
You can always see her love.

It's my observation that it's very easy to find an attractive 20 year-old girl everywhere. If a man matches her in his looks, she may go with him. But many of these girls are too young and mostly look for fun.
Also, it's easy to find ladies over 40 because the locals (except grandfathers) don't want them.

25-35 is the sweet spot.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 05, 2011, 12:44:49 AM
Maybe she is just keeping you on the hotseat for a while for being one of those indispicable VM types.  Playing hard to get, flexing her muscles, exercising her powers.  Maybe she will let you out of jail soon.  Just a few more days.  You'll have done your time.  Out of the can.  A reformed man.


OTOH, maybe she just left her charger at home.


Good luck.


Thank for Jessi Colter, great voice, on my old time i've liked America and an other woman crooner.

What do you mean exactly by indispicable John ? Even if she forgot her charger, she still has many options to send some news. It's just i'm not a priority as AJ said.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on June 05, 2011, 01:04:36 AM
Quote
Also, it's easy to find ladies over 40 because the locals (except grandfathers) don't want them.

Untrue, at least in Ukraine.  Most Ukrainian men look for women closer to themselves in age.   There are lots of areas of Ukraine where you will find few men over, say, 50.  What you will also find is that UM understand UW better than foreigners do.   A lot of behaviours I've read here, that the foreign man has not even questioned, a UM would just not put up with.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 05, 2011, 02:18:50 AM
AJ no problem

One of the most important thing in life to have a good life is to be comfortable. We have huges discussions with The Natural and we are very very different about ours way to do. But we understand and respect each other because the most important factor is each of us must be comfortable (or Natural  :toocool: ?) with himself of course, and with others.
 
 When a girl younger than you of 17 likes you and is physically attracted  you are a little disturbed, not because you have some doubt, she is totally genuine, this not the issue. Just YOU YOU are not totally comfortable perhaps, not now, not tomorrow but because you perfectly know that problems will appear perhaps in few years, and in particular when she will become your wife in your homeland country. It's very surprising but true that those  FSU women are really comfortable with such age gap, and i'm not sure that WM are so comfortable about this issue. I mean in the spirit of this forum (build a strong relation commited by a marriage). It's why i avoid very yound girl and you must have some discipline because it's very easy to fall in love. There was a couple, married, in the plane during the outward journey. She was less than 25 easily and he was around 50, more  than 50 probably. She spent a part of her time to cry and to refuse to have anything to do with him. Really not the sort of couple i want to have.
 
 One of the thing about FSU girls are complaining often is unfaithfulness in their country. The national sport for RM is to cheat on theirs wifes or GF. It happened to many of the girls i met. This is why olders western guys has a better worth. Those ladies know that older men will be probably not a stallion always in conquest, will be  wiser, more mature, and the law system is not in men's favor. They feel also more secure for many reasons (among others the olders ones have statistically more chance to provide a better materialistic life, and of course if those ladies have count three times each grivna they don't want to count each $ three time later)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on June 05, 2011, 02:37:51 AM
A lot of behaviours I've read here, that the foreign man has not even questioned, a UM would just not put up with.

Can you give some examples of that Boethius?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on June 05, 2011, 03:00:55 AM
I won't give specific examples, as it would identify posters, and my intent is not to humiliate anyone.  One that comes to mind that is quite common is in buying gifts, with the woman wanting something in particular, and dragging him along to pay.  A UM would deal with that directly and bluntly.  She wouldn't be dragging him to shops, or be trying to persuade him to buy her something that she really wants.   Most would cut her off.  It just would never even become an issue.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on June 05, 2011, 07:36:19 AM
I won't give specific examples, as it would identify posters, and my intent is not to humiliate anyone.  One that comes to mind that is quite common is in buying gifts, with the woman wanting something in particular, and dragging him along to pay.  A UM would deal with that directly and bluntly.  She wouldn't be dragging him to shops, or be trying to persuade him to buy her something that she really wants.   Most would cut her off.  It just would never even become an issue.

Good example.  And the UW would respect the UM less if he did consent to buy her anything and everything. 
 
I am not sure of how the UM says "No."  I imagine that the best UM are diplomatic and not brutally blunt, making the UW feel okay even though she is not getting a pretty present.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Vincenzo on June 05, 2011, 09:06:27 AM
A UM would deal with that directly and bluntly.  She wouldn't be dragging him to shops, or be trying to persuade him to buy her something that she really wants.   Most would cut her off.  It just would never even become an issue.
A Ukrainian woman won't even try to ask to buy her gifts.

First, it's the capitalist system in the Ukraine. If a man buys a woman an expensive gift, she knows she has to pay in bed.
Second, if she's in love, she cares about her beloved. For example, if he's a poor student, she will find cheap places to have fun together.

However, small signs of attention are expected. The best are flowers.

It's the same everywhere in the world.

What happens when an old dirty man meets a young princess and wants to cuddle her peach body? He has to buy her expensive gifts!
(http://cdn.961joyfm.com/files/2010/12/Hefner-Harris-122710.jpg)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on June 05, 2011, 09:12:54 AM
And a WM doesn't expect to be bedded?  LOL.    Don't you think UW want to be bedded?  UW try this on boyfriends as well, I've seen it, and I've seen the end result.  But, I disagree with Gator that they would respect him less if he bought a present.  Though, I have never seen it happen.

It's not the same, because not all humans think the same way.  You seem to have a "one size fits all" approach to women.  Some women like to be wooed, as you have described.  Others would find it annoying.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on June 05, 2011, 09:19:19 AM
Don't you think UW want to be bedded? 

Well, I think so. I can't make any generalizations about that, but I know of one who want to be bedded, so it's not unheard of.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Vincenzo on June 05, 2011, 09:19:46 AM
Untrue, at least in Ukraine.  Most Ukrainian men look for women closer to themselves in age. 
True!
Ukrainian women over 40, usually with 2 kids and chubby, have bleak prospects unless they are very attractive.
That's the reason they look for foreign men.

25-35 year-old ladies, talented and educated, often try to meet Western men because these ladies can achieve more in the West.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: JohnDearGreen on June 05, 2011, 06:41:12 PM
What do you mean exactly by indispicable John ?
Just joking.

Even if she forgot her charger, she still has many options to send some news. It's just i'm not a priority as AJ said.
Yes, we are a much higher priority when in their country than when out.
I once spent 3 hours trying to get a phone connection to my 1st Kiev GF when she was on vacation at her old apt. in Odessa.  After finally getting a connection, she says "can you call back in an hour?  I'm watching a TV program now.".
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on June 05, 2011, 08:19:04 PM
True!
Ukrainian women over 40, usually with 2 kids and chubby, have bleak prospects unless they are very attractive.
That's the reason they look for foreign men.

25-35 year-old ladies, talented and educated, often try to meet Western men because these ladies can achieve more in the West.

You know very little of Ukrainian culture.  Lots of UM over 40, many of whom are from a peasant backgrounds, like chubby women. 

Women over 40 look for foreign men because there are fewer UM in that age group, as alcohol abuse begins to take its toll. 

Most UW looking for foreigners do so to expand their options, not because they wish to leave their families, and everything familiar, to live with a WM.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 06, 2011, 12:32:41 AM
Just joking.Yes, we are a much higher priority when in their country than when out.
I once spent 3 hours trying to get a phone connection to my 1st Kiev GF when she was on vacation at her old apt. in Odessa.  After finally getting a connection, she says "can you call back in an hour?  
 :ROFL:

I would tell you a little story with a lady i met three weeks ago. CaptainOfCustoms spent three hours and half with me and the terp, she was shy but she showed quite a lot of sign of interest. I sent her a SMS to propose her a diner because i like her, less than blue sweeties, because i had'nt met Bluee sweeties yet of course. The meeting with CaptainOfCustoms had been scheduled for 20:00 and finally reported to 21:15. I was leaving my previous meeting (of  20:15 i think) and walking fastly to reach the meeting place when i just received this SMS from CaptainOfCustoms :"I'm cooking, eat and i still not to be free, sorry" Do you believe it ? This is strange. 

But i have better, the day after to see how the land lies i send and other sms  type how are you ? Answer : sms1 : i'm fine sms2: maybe we can echange mail and skype ? When you are going in Kharkov ?

Of course when i'm in her city it's time to chit and chat on Skype and write long letters  :cluebat:

A lot of FSU women don't have a real idea of what is the cost of this sort of travel, financially, in time vacation, emotionally and it's not resting at all. So for some (or many?) your time is free. The time you offerer to her, in particular in a VM, if she don't get it, she excludes herself from the race. GIRLS : when a guy shows, and if he is challenger, you must priorize him high in your time, as possible, even if you have had any contact before, and try to spend with him as MANY time AS POSSIBLE .
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 06, 2011, 03:35:44 PM
To not add to the crowded topic "why FSUW are looking abroad". And in particular about this one, of Anotherkiwi :) .
 
" It's interesting to me that there only appears to be a handful of "still lookings" in those who post (reasonably) regularly - myself, LAMan, ManLooking, The Natural, Vincenzo and Patagonie amongst them - and that the remainder are already married, engaged or otherwise seriously committed.  Although of course there are pearls of wisdom scattered amongst the threads, it still amazes me just how easily threads can get side-tracked as those who've already completed this journey bicker amongst themselves").
 
I would say that to be an always "still looking", for now two years is a litlle worrying, but really just a little. What is giving me a lot of willingness is to see a lot of remainder married, engaged, or otherwise seriously commited (i think to Kievstar for example, Turboguy). And also in EM's old favorites, i'm sometimes browsing old profiles wich are obviously not avalaible (i know half of them are surely blocked for scam reasons, i'm not naïve).
 
What is also giving me a lot of willingness is a guy i met who explained me that his search had needed 6 years, and now he is happily married with his wife for 6 years (so he started 12 years ago). Each year, i'm learning experience and informations, i'm earning more money and can offer more security, i'm maturing, my seduction, much to my surprise is still improving (or in a different way perhaps). The only thing i deplore is i take each year one digit more and i need to shift my court to take in account (and it closes me some opportunities).
 
I really consider myself as doing a good job in 26 months, with a lot of work, a strong commitment (62 days off abroad in 22 months, 8 travels, budget of nearly 25000 bucks already, upgrading my english from school level to a TOEIC between 860 and 900, beginning russian now, and spending between probably 700 and 1000 hours on internet about the issue). I've made some mistakes, met scammers and also a pro prodaters, and deal/argue with them with good success.
 
The more important is to always fancy to go. It's the most difficult thing to manage. I can tell you fellows that i crave to return to Ukraine.  :exploding: No matter is it to see Blue Sweeties (i would prefer if possible) or to chase at Dnepropetrovsk, but really i already want to return. This guy said to me : if you are serious, if you have the money to go, it's 100% of success. There are enough girls in FSU, it's not a problem of girls.
Since i met him, i can say that it's engravied in my heard, i just need odds, and to take care of my weaknesses (if i cannot improve it, just don't forget where they are).
Pat
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Vincenzo on June 06, 2011, 03:46:36 PM
I don't understand.

You want to meet several women.
Why don't you grab their emails from the agency and start contacting them?

When you like a lady, it often happens that she doesn't like you. It's life.
It's better to filter her out as early as possible because later she'll make up excuses to get rid of you.




Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SFandEE on June 06, 2011, 03:50:13 PM
This guy said to me : if you are serious, if you have the money to go, it's 100% of success. There are enough girls in FSU, it's not a problem of girls.
Since i met him, i can say that it's engravied in my heard, i just need odds, and to take care of my weaknesses (if i cannot improve it, just don't forget where they are).
Pat


That is very well said.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 06, 2011, 04:12:13 PM
I don't understand.

You want to meet several women.
Why don't you grab their emails from the agency and start contacting them?

When you like a lady, it often happens that she doesn't like you. It's life.
It's better to filter her out as early as possible because later she'll make up excuses to get rid of you.
..

Vincenzo, read with me, carefully : I can tell you fellows that i crave to return to Ukraine.  (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/3D_Exploding.gif) No matter is it to see Blue Sweeties (i would prefer if possible) or to chase at Dnepropetrovsk.
As i already repeat in accordance to my strategic plan for the next 15 days : i will wait some movement from the girl, if not i will quickly book a travel to the same city.
.

Vincenzo, why haven't i send any letters to the ladies in my first travel ( i help you, the answer is in my trip report ) ? And why i will generally not use this option with almost all agencies (many reasons, Vincenzo), do your work now.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on June 06, 2011, 04:27:22 PM
...I would say that to be an always "still looking", for now two years is a litlle worrying, but really just a little. What is giving me a lot of willingness is to see a lot of remainder married, engaged, or otherwise seriously commited (i think to Kievstar for example, Turboguy)...

Yes, it gives me heart, too!


...What is also giving me a lot of willingness is a guy i met who explained me that his search had needed 6 years, and now he is happily married with his wife for 6 years (so he started 12 years ago). Each year, i'm learning experience and informations, i'm earning more money and can offer more security, i'm maturing, my seduction, much to my surprise is still improving (or in a different way perhaps). The only thing i deplore is i take each year one digit more and i need to shift my court to take in account (and it closes me some opportunities)...

I also started looking probably six years ago, but have certainly not being doing so continuously.  I've taken a break after each trip to reassess whether or not it's worthwhile to continue looking - the people I've met (not just the women I've dated) have been enough to convince me that yes, there is a fairly good chance that the FSU is where I will find that special someone.  Of course I would have no problem if a local woman stole my heart, but that doesn't seem likely at the moment.

I really consider myself as doing a good job in 26 months, with a lot of work, a strong commitment (62 days off abroad in 22 months, 8 travels, budget of nearly 25000 bucks already, upgrading my english from school level to a TOEIC between 860 and 900, beginning russian now, and spending between probably 700 and 1000 hours on internet about the issue). I've made some mistakes, met scammers and also a pro prodaters, and deal/argue with them with good success.

This is where we differ - unlike French people, I don't get six weeks annual leave, nor am I only three hours away from Moscow or Kyiv!  The one advantage I have over Patagonie is that English is my native language, and that is what most FSUW learn.  However, his English is improving all the time (it's noticeable even in the period he has been posting), and I don't think that women who speak reasonable English will have too many problems with him (well, not in the language department, anyway - not so sure about the "seduction" bit!  >:D 8) ).
Title: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 07, 2011, 02:25:36 PM
It's a regular topic here on RWD that i'm going to browse, but beyond this point i want to show my globlal thinking, my global strategy, wich come from  a lot of extensive reading on this forum, a tactictal analysis, what i'm living in my FSU's adventures and also my global experience in life.
 
I'M NOT STARTING A STRUGGLE VOVO vs WMVM.
 
I just want to highlight my personnal sight of the issue wich determines "Patagonie campaign, operation Barbarossa".
 
 Part 1
 
The way i want to use is : how use odds (or avoid) to have the maximal success. The success is to meet a partner with yours requirements (R factor) so long as your lady find the same in you. For my requirements see posts in the beginning of my trip and add this so special feeling i called "flying hand by hand". For the requirements of the lady, ask her  :D
 
 
1/ More women you meet (Say nW factor), and more selective you can be and more easily you can choice the fitted partner to you, PROVIDED AS they are also interested in you.
 
2/ The way to raised the range of ladies interested by you is know by (the generic word) the game. Say G letter  which lead a nW x G = inW (corrected factor = girls interested by you for a second date).
 .
 Vincenzo, where is Vincenzo ? We have lost Vincenzo.  ;) :D

3/ So now we have inW corrected by the R factor.
 
/ but many others  parameters are needed. Monthly money needed (M) and time vacation (D).
 
Factor D (expressed in days) and M (expressed in bucks). M = 400 x (D/12).
 
Practice exercise : if you have a 4 weeks annual time of vacation you need to earn enough to expense 930 $ per month for your goal. In my opinion the treshold is 4000 $ per month of earning (without debt except a mortgage) to think to have a good success in this endeavour. And extra budget is needed for the first year when your lady is coming in your homeland. Anyways higher will be your earning and better your chances are.
 
 Vincenzo, seat here and stay by the blackboard. 
  Elseif the teacher -->  :deadhorse: <-- Vincenzo
 
 Don't forget that G is balanced by M and M balanced your court too as M is a factor in the self esteem of yourself, in your global life AND when you are dating during yours abroad vacations with the aim of your FSU marriage.
 
 Part 2 ... later.
 
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 12, 2011, 01:34:01 PM
Summarize of the last post :
nW x G = inW = girls interested by you for a second date (G game, and nW the number of girls interested to meet you for a first meeting)
M = 400 x (D/12) = Monthly money needed (D time vacation)

I would bring a new one here which is the interest that the girl has for you. It can be up, it can be down, if you are hitting a score below a special threshold you are ejected --> you loose the girl. You must keep a girl her interest above this treshold. This thresold varies slightly, depending the woman, but it is a constant. Interest is a sum of what she want to put into the basket. The level of interest she has for you determines your score in the competition amongst all others suitors. Some actions are increasing your score and some are decreasing it. You can fall to the last position and being forgotten (and be dumped when you hit the threshold).

Call I this factor

Now we can say that everybody has a value, factor V.

In a WOVO or a WMVO your are giving her a high value. And so giving her too much value, you are decreasing  your own value. Wich decreases her interest for  you.
The fact is that your soul, your mind, your attitude, yours actions are disturbed as soon as the rapport whith the lady is not in your favor (see the present trip of Neo).  In your favor i mean as soon you are dependant, as soon you have NO CHOICE.
A man who has plenty choice is always more exciting and attracting for a girl, she must chase you to win you. If she has nothing to do to win you so the man has almost no worth (V factor), and neither she has.

In practice, it's very tempting to write or to answer on sites or even on agencies. But sooner or later you will have to make a choice. Yes the girl can be real, yes you are knowing her better but a lot of things are missing  :
Wich are :
Physical attraction
The ability for the man to aim the meeting in the direction of the bed.
If both conditions are met so the VO can be  a winner and it brings a lot of comfort because you know each others (really true or not it's almost the same) and so it enhances the comfort between the two partners so you can go quickly in the F... case.


THE VO /
The odds, saying a good professional who has seen hundreds or thousands meetings are 85 % of failure. If we leave apart the seekers who pack the woman in a dozen of days the success is really lower than 15 %, FOR A SECOND MEETING.
Would you play ?
The fact is that human things are always more complicated than some mathematics formulas. The way used by some is named the comfort. So some prefer to write and for many (personals) reasons prefer to do a VO. I think it's better to be in congruence with who you are rather than to do something for what you are not good and not prepared, this why  i'm not arguing between VO and VM. I'm just looking odds and comfort and results, and try to apply for my OWN personality.
I think however there is an optimum in odds. It's why i'm going to pursue this post.

So we were discussing about the VO. The problem is that your are not choosing the location where you would go later.
Which means that your loosing some value. Why ? It's not easy to recruit a backup and manage her interest (and be interested genuinely by her too). It's why agencies are always a very good backup.
True or false ?
Generally false because there are very few good or very good agencies, so the odds that your girl lives in a city where you have valuables agencies as backup are low or null. And it is the same for sites if the girl you want to visit is far from bigs cities because you will have  very few or null choice too.
In a VO you are loosing control from the beginning, as soon you start your FIRST letter. You are accepting the odds wich are at least in 85% a failure. A lot of, we can say everybody thinks he will be the winner, as everyone who is playing with money in a lottery. With a less than 15% of success' chances i prefer, personnaly, reconsiderer carefully my strategy. I have no fear to throw away 10 bucks in a lottery, but few thousands bucks, one week at least of vacation and all the tiredness and NEGATIVE EMOTIONS --> i would look at it CAREFULLY.

The long road of the international marriage finishes when :
1/ you don't have any money to play
2/ you don't have any time to play
3/ you don't have any energy to play (burn out, too much negatives emotions)
THE last one is the more dangerous. For the first two ones you can find perhaps a solution, for the last one NEVER. And the last one is conditionned by your sense of your own value. It's not only harmful for you to have a low value but girls will have no interest in you too !!!

In a VO you are starting with a lower V mandatory (we don't speak here about a second meeting. Here you haven't yet met the girl) because you are investing too much in relation to the girl is doing for you.

I'm pretty sure that many guys are going in flames because they don't control their time, they don't control their meeting (of course you cannot control everything, i just want to mean you must stick on results and walk away if results are non satisfying after a deadline, YOU MUST PUT A DEADLINE, YOU ARE NOT PLAYING PACKMAN, it's your life, and your life is short)

The only way for a VO man to stay, as possible, in control is to choice big cities and or select the ones where good agencies are located. So anytime it will be possible to get a REAL and OPERATIONAL backup (not the sort of backup you use in IT network, feeling secure because you have one and finally when the system crashes suddenly you realize that your backup is just BS, because it doesn't work).  :deadhorse: :cluebat:

I have to say guys that is very tempting to answer or write to many beauties or interesting (seems to be) ladies, but at the end when you see the number of scammer or prodater in the circuit you begin to have no regret to use a strategy style VM, because you don't know who is behind the screen.
I remember in the beginning, i was in correspondance with a scammer, and of course and fortunately i identify him after few correspondances as a not genuine person, but i had made some plans for a very far location in Russia with many hours of plane and many hours of train. Today i try to imagine myself in such travel to meet a fake person, what would have been my value ? Low, guys, really low, not the sort of things you brag about during the coffee with your colleagues. And however, it happens every day and everywhere in FSU.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: LAman on June 12, 2011, 08:09:30 PM
Patagonie...I don't think any equations or quantum physics or any percentages really matter when dealing with feelings, emotions, love, hopes and dreams. It will never work more than once
like math. It is an ever changing chase, everyday can be a new thought. I try not to keep score, just that I am happy and develop new experiences.
I read with interest about how long this journey can be. It can be as short as a few months and as long as forever and you never have total control. You can go in a certain direction but to me luck is the overriding criteria.....all things must come together at same time. It reminds me of a friend that married a girl from sumy. Had she missed the bus( when ran 10 minutes late), my friend would have never met her and who knows where he would be now. We all make choices that we think are best, sometimes they turn out right sometimes not. I don't know how long I will be on this journey but I have enjoyed the learning experience and have no regrets. Maybe my future is without a partner but with many friends......
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on June 13, 2011, 09:43:42 AM
Patagonie, you're a good guy and I like you, but in my opinion you analyze too much. If I were to do that high level analyzing, I would be mentally exhausted by the time I got to the part of meeting the hopefuls. But as you said, we are different and must operate in a way that is comfortable for our particular personality.
 
As you know, I'm going on a VO journey soon. I have no back-up. I choose to have faith in the girl I'm going to meet as well as in myself. But I will have back-up plans when it comes to money. A fistful of Dollars, Euros and Kroner, as well as plastic and perhaps a little gold coin. What I dread the most of such a trip would be to find myself without money for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Faux Pas on June 13, 2011, 09:59:22 AM

As you know, I'm going on a VO journey soon. I have no back-up. I choose to have faith in the girl I'm going to meet as well as in myself. But I will have back-up plans when it comes to money. A fistful of Dollars, Euros and Kroner, as well as plastic and perhaps a little gold coin. What I dread the most of such a trip would be to find myself without money for whatever reason.


Roy,


I think there is a lot to be said about your approach. Many will declare to have back up plans no matter what, which, I also think is a good idea. However those plans do not necessarily need to be more women. WOVO is a risky proposition for many and I've never really understood why. Sure sometimes even the best chemistry online/phone/skype can turn instantly flat in person. That can and does happen to many. One can reduce those chances significantly IMO if they simply do their due diligence prior to making arrangements and the trip.


Learn the woman, know the woman having spent many hours involved in conversations about everything under the sun. All of this happening away from an agency in one on one time. If a translator is required, use one independent of the agency. Exit the agency as soon as humanly possible and well before you've gotten on that plane the first time.


My back up plan on my first WOVO was nothing but the phone number and web address of an agency in the same city. I really had no sense that I would need it and I didn't. If my meeting had went South I don't think I would have used it any way. I found the city I was in was easy enough to wing it and just have a good time. Some guys don't take that approach and that's fine. My point here is, learn the lady before you go. If you have any doubts at any time that she won't go for you or you go for her, simply don't go. Wait until you "know" your chances are 75% chance of success. The 3 month rule is a good standard but, that is all it is, a standard rule of thumb.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 13, 2011, 10:27:23 AM
Patagonie...I don't think any equations or quantum physics or any percentages really matter when dealing with feelings, emotions, love, hopes and dreams. It will never work more than once
like math. It is an ever changing chase, everyday can be a new thought. I try not to keep score, just that I am happy and develop new experiences.
I read with interest about how long this journey can be. It can be as short as a few months and as long as forever and you never have total control. You can go in a certain direction but to me luck is the overriding criteria.....all things must come together at same time. It reminds me of a friend that married a girl from sumy. Had she missed the bus( when ran 10 minutes late), my friend would have never met her and who knows where he would be now. We all make choices that we think are best, sometimes they turn out right sometimes not. I don't know how long I will be on this journey but I have enjoyed the learning experience and have no regrets. Maybe my future is without a partner but with many friends......

I like your post
"I don't know how long I will be on this journey but I have enjoyed the learning experience and have no regrets. Maybe my future is without a partner but with many friends......" I'm proud of my adventure, and i'm  having great satisfaction of what is happening.
 
  Sometimes you are living bad experience and sometimes it's very exciting. I can say that i'm enjoying my travels, and it give me a lot of wealth. More important today i hope to success but perhaps not, but the more important is to try it, so i would have no regrets later, with or without having reached my goal.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on June 13, 2011, 10:49:08 AM

Learn the woman, know the woman having spent many hours involved in conversations about everything under the sun. All of this happening away from an agency in one on one time. If a translator is required, use one independent of the agency. Exit the agency as soon as humanly possible and well before you've gotten on that plane the first time.



Yes, I have naturally spent many hours talking with her and making sure she's the real thing, and she is. There's many little things that tell me so. We moved out from the agency which is extremely easy to do from RBrides. We talk on Skype every night for two hours, except when I have work.
 
Your advice here is sound, as always FP.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 13, 2011, 10:58:39 AM
Patagonie, you're a good guy and I like you, but in my opinion you analyze too much. If I were to do that high level analyzing, I would be mentally exhausted by the time I got to the part of meeting the hopefuls. But as you said, we are different and must operate in a way that is comfortable for our particular personality.
 
As you know, I'm going on a VO journey soon. I have no back-up. I choose to have faith in the girl I'm going to meet as well as in myself. But I will have back-up plans when it comes to money. A fistful of Dollars, Euros and Kroner, as well as plastic and perhaps a little gold coin. What I dread the most of such a trip would be to find myself without money for whatever reason.

 I think you are going to make a high score and that you are not so far from the 75% (see FP post). I think now it's just a question for you of time,  checking physical attraction (both), the values, and hoping love wil raise shared by both. I cross my fingers for you buddy.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on June 13, 2011, 01:10:07 PM

 I think you are going to make a high score and that you are not so far from the 75% (see FP post). I think now it's just a question for you of time,  checking physical attraction (both), the values, and hoping love wil raise shared by both. I cross my fingers for you buddy.

Thanks man. I really didn't want to steal your thunder here, so to speak  :)
 
Hope things work out for you too real soon. I suppose the deadline you set for the girls is approaching? Any news or other plans for you lately Pat?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 13, 2011, 01:51:31 PM

Thanks man. I really didn't want to steal your thunder here, so to speak  :)
 
Hope things work out for you too real soon. I suppose the deadline you set for the girls is approaching? Any news or other plans for you lately Pat?

Yes i have a deadline.
 I want to finish here at first the analysis i've started. Don't worry for me i don't have any headache about this  ;D as i'm trained for a long time for such things. It's just "my contribution to the forum", try to bring something for guys (or newbies rather). Just like a loan for all i've found here, i want "to give back".
 
Now yes we are near of the deadline and i think i'm going to  open a new topic, second edition of this first one "Operation White Panther, 2nd edition".
 
I have any news from the girl. So it's simple.
No news, new adventure for the first two weeks of july.
 If i've news and if she is available in the first two weeks of july --> try to spend some vacation together
If she gives some news but if she is not available in july i'm going to make a secret travel anyways by my own. She don't deserve the exclusivity for the moment. She needs to earn it, time will show.
 
But really it's a bet and i have no idea of what will happen. I gave her too much interest i'm sure. But a lot of odds are above this problematic. Anyways the best thing i've done had been to stop all sms. I sent 4 i think and try to call one time, it's 2 sms wasted.
 
I've tried  to cross the bridge towards a building relation, using the pattern adult and child as described in transactionnal analysis. I know thAt a lot of FSU girls are capable to do it, and i think it's really worthly for both. She has missed to play her duty for the moment.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Kuna on June 17, 2011, 05:32:50 AM

Yes i have a deadline.
 I want to finish here at first the analysis i've started. Don't worry for me i don't have any headache about this  ;D as i'm trained for a long time for such things. It's just "my contribution to the forum", try to bring something for guys (or newbies rather). Just like a loan for all i've found here, i want "to give back".
 
Now yes we are near of the deadline and i think i'm going to  open a new topic, second edition of this first one "Operation White Panther, 2nd edition".
 
I have any news from the girl. So it's simple.
No news, new adventure for the first two weeks of july.
 If i've news and if she is available in the first two weeks of july --> try to spend some vacation together
If she gives some news but if she is not available in july i'm going to make a secret travel anyways by my own. She don't deserve the exclusivity for the moment. She needs to earn it, time will show.
 
But really it's a bet and i have no idea of what will happen. I gave her too much interest i'm sure. But a lot of odds are above this problematic. Anyways the best thing i've done had been to stop all sms. I sent 4 i think and try to call one time, it's 2 sms wasted.
 
I've tried  to cross the bridge towards a building relation, using the pattern adult and child as described in transactionnal analysis. I know thAt a lot of FSU girls are capable to do it, and i think it's really worthly for both. She has missed to play her duty for the moment.

Pat,

I know you probably won't take this advice because most men who "train" in the art of seduction and "claim" to have "game" get so obsessed with the potential that they completely miss the reality....  but, I've got to say:
Dump all of the artificial learnings you've been "trained in" and just be sincere and genuine.

I promise you,  genuine women are just looking for genuine men, and they can smell the tricks a mile off.

It doesn't mean that some men don't naturally act in a way that DOES attract certain types of women...  but I don't believe this is a learned behaviour.

I always wonder what would happen if one of these "trained men" ever did snag the girl of their dreams and then she works out he never did find that second edition of the book which teaches him how to continue being "this man" forever.

Something freaked your runaway bride out.  By all accounts that first meeting went exactly the way you'd been trained for it to go.  Maybe if you'd toned it down she would have stuck around.


Not trying to offend...  but I've seen this a lot with guys I know and I've not yet seen one of them find "true love" yet.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 17, 2011, 06:23:37 AM
Pat,

I know you probably won't take this advice because most men who "train" in the art of seduction and "claim" to have "game" get so obsessed with the potential that they completely miss the reality....  but, I've got to say:
Dump all of the artificial learnings you've been "trained in" and just be sincere and genuine.

I promise you,  genuine women are just looking for genuine men, and they can smell the tricks a mile off.

It doesn't mean that some men don't naturally act in a way that DOES attract certain types of women...  but I don't believe this is a learned behaviour.

I always wonder what would happen if one of these "trained men" ever did snag the girl of their dreams and then she works out he never did find that second edition of the book which teaches him how to continue being "this man" forever.

Something freaked your runaway bride out.  By all accounts that first meeting went exactly the way you'd been trained for it to go.  Maybe if you'd toned it down she would have stuck around.


Not trying to offend...  but I've seen this a lot with guys I know and I've not yet seen one of them find "true love" yet.


dear Kuna you are making interesting posts which let a lot of place for an arguing discussion.
I think you've missed some previous posts i've written about the topic (game, why seduction is not a can of paint to summarize? And if it's true so your  post is relevant, to make short).

So i'm pasting the post which shows, in my opinion, a good picture of what i think about the Game : (i would add others comments on a following post)

Few man get laid often
An a lot a few

These man are natural
Those who are not natural (or not really)  had work a lot
 
There a mistery around this attraction
The master of them are called PUA
Game is the name of this skill
Game is mastered for the very first meeting to few meetings. It doesn't help really in the long term relationship.

Real or false PUA, and all specialized forum deliver learning and informations to a lot of potential interested people (since 14 to ??).
Theory and practice are (for those who are not the natural PUA and for all who want to enhance theirs skill) the two roads to go. But learning without practice is totally ineffective.
Learning and practicing is a hard way. Many years are normally required.

Game add not only worth with woman, but also at work and with all social relationship in general. It's a way to modify, change, and have a better life, as powerful as psychoterapy.

About all who are interested fery vew will become PUA. A lot will improve their life anyways. A few will learn anything and will do counterproductives things.

Is the game raise the attraction ? Does the game allows you to date more women ? Yes. Do you have more pleasure with women (i don't speak about sex !) ? Yes. For all who had work, no doubt about results.

Does a woman detects a "good" player ? No. So believe, girls, that you will recognize him is a lie or a fairy tale to protect your proud.   Why ? Because he is not really playing, HE IS. He is what he had become : a worthly man.

After the player can choice, have a funny quarter of hour with her and dump her.
Share one hour with her and gets her phone number and dump her.
Spend one evening with her and return at home and dump her.
Spend a second evening with her and kiss and hugh her and dump her.
Make an ONS, the third evening (or the first evening) and dump her, OR NOT DUMP HER
And for the proud of all woman here, and because it's absolutely true, at each step of the process the girl CAN also dump the man, probably less than an ordinary guy but it happens : it's better to be HONEST about the reality of the field.
and the guy can begin after few weeks or few months a TRUE and REAL relationship oriented in the long term. Perhaps during this beginning as he is experienced he will do that a lot of AW do : he will keep all the same a lot of contacts like they usually do.

SO remember each big love story begins by one night in a bed (if you prefer in the forest or in a garage it's your problem)

So game is exactly like martial arts : you can fight on the car park of the disco each saturday night (f**ck few times per week --> ONS)
OR
you can lead your life to change your soul, your body, your food habits , have the right thinking, share your knolewdege and advice and help people in the tojo. --> As you take control of yourself and responsability of what you do, and as you meet a lot of girls with success you can choice the GOOD one, and be the GOOD one for her too.
 Exemple rather than say this girl is a bitch (she get laid with you neighbour, the hell's angel with the Harley) it's perhaps better to analyse your behavior, and try to understand what you did stupid. Exemple of stupids things wich decrease interest of any AW girls : calling her all the time in firsts days, doing always what she wants and with no delay, asking her what she want to do all time, asking her if he can leave her trouser before sex. Believe me, i had listening a lot of girls in my life, and they had met at least one time in their life this sort of guy acting in this way.


So it's important to understand game is a tool, who enhance forgotten skills. Your goal is what you aim. TBB aims a marriage relation. Me the same, and many guys here, on RWD, too. As i said game helps to enhance the worthy of the men in the few firsts meetings. In the marriage course, and as there are many cultural differences between AW and RW a lot of things are important too. I agree.

Now i would advice who don't know nothing about game and have only opinions, to search information and spend at least few weeks, and preferentially few months AND after they will express themself. Like searching a eastern/western partner it's a complicated, wiser, atypical and disturbing topic, too complicated to summarize in game = bad, game = ons.

Patagonie
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 17, 2011, 07:08:21 AM
Kuna, perhaps i'm wrong but your post lets me think that you are not entered too deeply in the Game, i mean that you have not reached all the facets, all components which enhance really a life, not the spiritual part, the whole bunch of efforts you have made on you, the daily improvement you can quickly see in your life and how many more interesting people you can have a relation with, and why it's a key to understand the huge failure of male/female relations in the west.
About the moral it's not the Game which is immoral, it's what you are doing with it.
What lets me think this (in the west ):
" I promise you,  genuine women are just looking for genuine men, and they can smell the tricks a mile off."
This is the first think who shocks me, it is absolutely false. They absolutely not smell the tricks because Game is absolutely and totally anchored with 2000 years of male/female interaction.

It doesn't mean that some men don't naturally act in a way that DOES attract certain types of women...  but I don't believe this is a learned behaviour.
The best is when there is no learned behaviour, but just a  "new" behavior wich replaces the new one (replaces the typical AFC demeanor). WE ARE TALKING from the pickup to the third or fourth meeting : NO MORE.

I always wonder what would happen if one of these "trained men" ever did snag the girl of their dreams and then she works out he never did find that second edition of the book which teaches him how to continue being "this man" forever.
If a guy is buying his seduction from a can of painting for sure he will not have the balls and the behavior to continue being "this man" forever. I agree.
Something freaked your runaway bride out.  By all accounts that first meeting went exactly the way you'd been trained for it to go.  Maybe if you'd toned it down she would have stuck around.
I think the problem is above the dating or the following communication. And if it has been i think quite the opposite, showing my genuiness by giving her too much interest had been not rewarding. For my genuine demeanor i have not been rewarded, it's the conclusion.
But really i think the key is more about she had had an other appointement in Moscow, with a guy she got acquainted for surely a longer time than me.

With my best friend we have analysed this :
1/ minus : why a 3 weeks scheduled in Moscow ? Too long, and when the sister will see her mother who lives in Dnepropetrovsk, do you imagine a sister, living so far, staying in Moscow, and not seing her mother ? There is something strange
2/ plus : Why a WM would go to Moscow ? He needs visa, Ukraine is more simple, and anyways it's better to go to Crimea in june, in Turkey, in Egypts ..... When you are in relation with a lady, she likes to travel. Or perhaps it's a russian man or a local one.

Without any more information for the moment... Don't  forget my deadline is not over for the moment, she is always in the delay.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Kuna on June 17, 2011, 09:02:01 AM
Kuna, perhaps i'm wrong but your post lets me think that you are not entered too deeply in the Game, i mean that you have not reached all the facets, all components which enhance really a life, not the spiritual part, the whole bunch of efforts you have made on you, the daily improvement you can quickly see in your life and how many more interesting people you can have a relation with, and why it's a key to understand the huge failure of male/female relations in the west.

Pat,  I never needed "The Game".  I learned about it in a very strange way from some one who also had this "new behaviour"...  but the only way he found what he was looking for was realising (I had to break it to him) that being himself - natural - comfortable - confident - strong - balanced - and most of all genuine, was the best way to catch a hottie!   :P

" I promise you,  genuine women are just looking for genuine men, and they can smell the tricks a mile off."
This is the first think who shocks me, it is absolutely false. They absolutely not smell the tricks because Game is absolutely and totally anchored with 2000 years of male/female interaction.

If you practice for the next 2000 years your "game" might he so fluent it almost appears natural...  until then,  smart women will always detect the tricks.  Women aren't stupid, and they are far more intuitive than men give them credit for.

I am sorry - but you are wrong.

It doesn't mean that some men don't naturally act in a way that DOES attract certain types of women...  but I don't believe this is a learned behaviour.
The best is when there is no learned behaviour, but just a  "new" behavior which replaces the new one (replaces the typical AFC demeanor). WE ARE TALKING from the pickup to the third or fourth meeting : NO MORE.
 

If you are learning how to manufacture this "new" behaviour - it's learned behaviour.  Women can smell it - and at times they may not be able to work out why they feel uncomfortable around players who practice what is in the book...  but they are still uncomfortable.

Something freaked your runaway bride out.  By all accounts that first meeting went exactly the way you'd been trained for it to go.  Maybe if you'd toned it down she would have stuck around.
I think the problem is above the dating or the following communication. And if it has been i think quite the opposite, showing my genuiness by giving her too much interest had been not rewarding. For my genuine demeanor i have not been rewarded, it's the conclusion.
 But really i think the key is more about she had had an other appointement in Moscow, with a guy she got acquainted for surely a longer time than me.
 

 Showing too much interest is not about being genuine...  it makes women sense you are desperate - even if you are just being too eager.  ::)

... and come on - you're into "The Game"...  you know all about "negging"...  Where is your game (when it is not a learned behaviour - you claim it's a new behaviour") when you're not negging her....

btw... I don't think negging works as such,  because when most men who learn this and practice it just sound insulting! Women don't like being insulted.

One final thing on this... and PLEASE don't feel like I'm bashing you - I'm just trying to snap you out of it and trying to help...  but... 

You've already come up with an excuse about a new boyfriend being the reason why she didn't respond to your repeated SMS's and phone call(s).  If you really had this "new behaviour" working so naturally, you wouldn't be making excuses for the loss...  and you wouldn't have been chasing her like a schoolboy.

Be calm Pat...  enjoy the experience... just brush off all the silliness and let the real Pat come out.  You will find women who appreciate it and won't need a second SMS before responding to you.

With my best friend we have analysed this :
 1/ minus : why a 3 weeks scheduled in Moscow ? Too long, and when the sister will see her mother who lives in Dnepropetrovsk, do you imagine a sister, living so far, staying in Moscow, and not seing her mother ? There is something strange
 

Yes, I believe this totally.  My wife is from Dnepropetrovsk and her sister lives in Moscow.  Her sister would NEVER go back to Dnepropetrovsk unless absolutely necessary because she thinks like many Muscovites now.

Actually,  my MIL lives in Moscow too...  and even she thinks like a Muscovite - which drives my wife nuts!

In short... let me explain this to you...

My BIL is wealthy,  but above all he is a "True Moscow Man" (he proclaimed this to me with such pride one day).

In his mind there really is a pecking order:

1. Moscow is the greatest city on earth and old Moscow families are the best people on earth. 
2. Next comes St Pete people, and;
3. Then the rest of Russia...
4. But then it gets confusing because "Ukraine is rubbish bin Kuna, rubbish bin - but Ukraine is better than USA. Kuna, strange but true, this is my thinking. Even this rubbish bin is better than USA."

I HAD to ask the question,  "[INSERT HIS NAME HERE], what do you think of Australians,  where do we fit?"

He was puzzled for half a second and then he looked at me very seriously and said, "You married to our family now Kuna,  you are my family,  you are like real Moscow man too now." and then with a big smile on his face,  "Just from this strange place with kangaroo."

So yes,  I do believe that if her sister is in a similar frame of mind as my SIL then she would rarely EVER go back to Ukraine.
 
by the way... you can't be sure she's even in Moscow can you???  She may have used Moscow like neo's date used the three year old child when he met her in Kharkov...

As direct as RW may be some times they won't always tell the truth if they are trying to avoid someone.

2/ plus : Why a WM would go to Moscow ? He needs visa, Ukraine is more simple, and anyways it's better to go to Crimea in june, in Turkey, in Egypts ..... When you are in relation with a lady, she likes to travel. Or perhaps it's a russian man or a local one.
 

You've create this excuse that your runaway bride is meeting a WM in Moscow...  crazy thinking...  but FWIW there are plenty of reasons why a WM would want to go to Moscow.  It is a wonderful city... there's so much to do... so much to see...  and I would go back without reservation at the very next opportunity no matter how much the visa was.

Pat,  she's not in Moscow with another man... she just didn't feel the same for you that you felt for her.  Even if she was with someone else there would be a spare moment to send the briefest sms to keep the fire burning.  I am only telling you the truth,  she's not responding because she's not interested.

btw...  even when you find "the one" do yourself a favour and spend most of your time with her in her city.  There is a lifetime of opportunities to travel to other locations - especially as you are in Europe.  A holiday during courting is OK,  but nothing will equal spending time with her in her city.
 
 
Without any more information for the moment... Don't  forget my deadline is not over for the moment, she is always in the delay.
 

I'm not sure what you mean by this but I've read in another post that you intend doing another trip soon - without her in your plans - but if she does contact you then you can still catch up???

Pat,  your "new behaviour" (the Game) is not as natural as you want to think it is.  Pat,  if you have even had an inkling that she is with another man the last thing you should be thinking of is ever meeting up with her again. Where is your pride?

Men with real power to date the hottest women don't care when one does not "happen"... they know there is a better one just around the corner.

I sincerely wish you all the best.
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 17, 2011, 12:17:49 PM
Pat,  I never needed "The Game".  I learned about it in a very strange way from some one who also had this "new behaviour"...  but the only way he found what he was looking for was realising (I had to break it to him) that being himself - natural - comfortable - confident - strong - balanced - and most of all genuine, was the best way to catch a hottie!   :P n.n.

Good you are describing exactly how a player is : being himself - natural - comfortable - confident - strong - balanced - and most of all genuine (This last one is also called congruence)

If you practice for the next 2000 years your "game" might he so fluent it almost appears natural...  until then,  smart women will always detect the tricks.  Women aren't stupid, and they are far more intuitive than men give them credit for.

I am sorry - but you are wrong.

Here i was having a doubt, but now i'm sure that you don't know shit, or almost shit.

I
If you are learning how to manufacture this "new" behaviour - it's learned behaviour.  Women can smell it - and at times they may not be able to work out why they feel uncomfortable around players who practice what is in the book...  but they are still uncomfortable..

See my comment above.

 Showing too much interest is not about being genuine...  it makes women sense you are desperate - even if you are just being too eager.  ::) .

I agree totally, it's a sort of behavior to avoid.

... and come on - you're into "The Game"...  you know all about "negging"...  Where is your game (when it is not a learned behaviour - you claim it's a new behaviour") when you're not negging her.....

I think that you miss something important i don't pratice neg. Here the community disagrees with the american theory and i technicaly don't practice it. And in the trip i don't think you can show a moment when i'm negging a women (provided that you know exactly what a neg is)

btw... I don't think negging works as such,  because when most men who learn this and practice it just sound insulting! Women don't like being insulted..

It seems that it can help for the US hotties, but in my opinion not,  see my comment above

One final thing on this... and PLEASE don't feel like I'm bashing you - I'm just trying to snap you out of it and trying to help...  but...  .

I begin to think for the moment that you have a superficial reading of what i'm saying, but of course my english language is perhaps not the best one and sometimes it can lets some lack of understanding.

You've already come up with an excuse about a new boyfriend being the reason why she didn't respond to your repeated SMS's and phone call(s).  If you really had this "new behaviour" working so naturally, you wouldn't be making excuses for the loss...  and you wouldn't have been chasing her like a schoolboy..

Coming with an excuse ? It's a heavy probability which can explain that she is no longer interested by me.
I will deceive you i'm not a robot, and i had really like my time with the girl i've met in Dnepropetrovsk for my last meeting. I managed more and more with my internal emotionnal state, and also you have to protect you. It's obvious that you are focusing about the game and not having understand the whole figure..
 

Be calm Pat...  enjoy the experience... just brush off all the silliness and let the real Pat come out.  You will find women who appreciate it and won't need a second SMS before responding to you..

Yes you are right, in a "genuine" relation you are waiting an answer, a non balanced relation never works. About the real Pat, he is writing now.

Yes, I believe this totally.  My wife is from Dnepropetrovsk and her sister lives in Moscow.  Her sister would NEVER go back to Dnepropetrovsk unless absolutely necessary because she thinks like many Muscovites now.


Perhaps i was not clear but her sister is not from Moscow, she lives in country very far from Russia. So all you are explaining below, in my opinion, even if it's valuables informations, and i thank you, is irrelevant..


Actually,  my MIL lives in Moscow too...  and even she thinks like a Muscovite - which drives my wife nuts!

In short... let me explain this to you...

My BIL is wealthy,  but above all he is a "True Moscow Man" (he proclaimed this to me with such pride one day).

In his mind there really is a pecking order:

1. Moscow is the greatest city on earth and old Moscow families are the best people on earth. 
2. Next comes St Pete people, and;
3. Then the rest of Russia...
4. But then it gets confusing because "Ukraine is rubbish bin Kuna, rubbish bin - but Ukraine is better than USA. Kuna, strange but true, this is my thinking. Even this rubbish bin is better than USA."

I HAD to ask the question,  "[INSERT HIS NAME HERE], what do you think of Australians,  where do we fit?"

He was puzzled for half a second and then he looked at me very seriously and said, "You married to our family now Kuna,  you are my family,  you are like real Moscow man too now." and then with a big smile on his face,  "Just from this strange place with kangaroo."

So yes,  I do believe that if her sister is in a similar frame of mind as my SIL then she would rarely EVER go back to Ukraine.
 
by the way... you can't be sure she's even in Moscow can you???  She may have used Moscow like neo's date used the three year old child when he met her in Kharkov....

You are right it's just a supposition.

As direct as RW may be some times they won't always tell the truth if they are trying to avoid someone..

I think for the moment i'm in a more confor

You've create this excuse that your runaway bride is meeting a WM in Moscow...  crazy thinking...  but FWIW there are plenty of reasons why a WM would want to go to Moscow.  It is a wonderful city... there's so much to do... so much to see...  and I would go back without reservation at the very next opportunity no matter how much the visa was.

Pat,  she's not in Moscow with another man... she just didn't feel the same for you that you felt for her.  Even if she was with someone else there would be a spare moment to send the briefest sms to keep the fire burning.  I am only telling you the truth,  she's not responding because she's not interested...

You are right, it's obvious, it's the logical conclusion.
And i've begun to open my eyes just few days after her departure of course. A lot of guys here had crossed their fingers for me but everybody knows that after so many days now, and without any news.... 
 

btw...  even when you find "the one" do yourself a favour and spend most of your time with her in her city.  There is a lifetime of opportunities to travel to other locations - especially as you are in Europe.  A holiday during courting is OK,  but nothing will equal spending time with her in her city..

I agree totally, it's better to spend time with her in her city, for many reasons that it is not needed to detail
 
 
I'm not sure what you mean by this but I've read in another post that you intend doing another trip soon - without her in your plans - but if she does contact you then you can still catch up???

Pat,  your "new behaviour" (the Game) is not as natural as you want to think it is.  Pat,  if you have even had an inkling that she is with another man the last thing you should be thinking of is ever meeting up with her again. Where is your pride ?

This not a question of pride, this a question of intelligence. You cannot score against a guy with who for example she had already spent two vacations. Because she has invested a lot of time, so even if she likes you she will continue in the other relation. A girl will not drop a relation for an other without knowing that you are a good suitor. To give you (her and you) some chances you must let her time to know you. And i'm not enough naïve to believe this one is lost alone at home spending her whole time seing th TV

Men with real power to date the hottest women don't care when one does not "happen"... they know there is a better one just around the corner.?

Men with real power are dating  hottest women and shift their attention as soon as something does'nt happen surely. But the human beings has a different meaning of the word soon wich can have in time different length. It seems to be that, as i'm aiming a marriage, a LTR, i'm giving more place to soon when an affair is promising. For what i know about myself, i consider it's important to manage emotionnaly disappointement and let time to vanish, so of course, after you find a better one around the corner, because you are clear
 
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: GQBlues on June 17, 2011, 03:58:59 PM
.....So i'm pasting the post which shows, in my opinion, a good picture of what i think about the Game : (i would add others comments on a following post)

Few man get laid often
An a lot a few

These man are natural
Those who are not natural (or not really)  had work a lot
 
There a mistery around this attraction
The master of them are called PUA
Game is the name of this skill
Game is mastered for the very first meeting to few meetings. It doesn't help really in the long term relationship....

Dang! Patagonie! You must've ordered the same material from the same source (or attended the same seminar) as another member here who wrote about this stuff in this very site not too long ago...
 
LOL, if there really is a market for this type of material, I must say hooray for the author! The wealth he'll amassed alone should be enough to gitdemwimmen. That's the Game in itself, I would think..fast don't lie!
 
OTOH, it's a pretty sad state of affairs for the many on the other side of the fence it seems...but at least there's much to look forward to these days I gather...
 
Anyway, I haven't read the entire thread but I do hope things work out great for you!
 
Above all else, have a great time!
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Kuna on June 17, 2011, 04:47:09 PM
I'm sorry Pat... I tried to help, but you don't understand.

I hope you don't have too many more failed trips to FSU before you realise you're on the wrong path.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 19, 2011, 01:12:58 PM
As i was without internet lasts days it had been not possible to correct my comments about Kuna's post. Some glow have had missing. So i want to correct my comments to allow a better understanding..
 
 Pat,  I never needed "The Game".  I learned about it in a very strange way from some one who also had this "new behaviour"...  but the only way he found what he was looking for was realising (I had to break it to him) that being himself - natural - comfortable - confident - strong - balanced - and most of all genuine, was the best way to catch a hottie!   (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/tongue.gif) n.n.

Good you are describing exactly how a player is : being himself - natural - comfortable - confident - strong - balanced - and most of all genuine (This last one is also called congruence)

If you practice for the next 2000 years your "game" might he so fluent it almost appears natural...  until then,  smart women will always detect the tricks.  Women aren't stupid, and they are far more intuitive than men give them credit for.

I am sorry - but you are wrong.

Here i was having a doubt, but now i'm sure that you don't know shit, or almost shit.


If you are learning how to manufacture this "new" behaviour - it's learned behaviour.  Women can smell it - and at times they may not be able to work out why they feel uncomfortable around players who practice what is in the book...  but they are still uncomfortable..

See my comment above.
Showing too much interest is not about being genuine...  it makes women sense you are desperate - even if you are just being too eager.  (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/rolleyes.gif) .

I agree totally, it's a sort of behavior to avoid.

... and come on - you're into "The Game"...  you know all about "negging"...  Where is your game (when it is not a learned behaviour - you claim it's a new behaviour") when you're not negging her.....

I think that you miss something important i don't pratice neg. Here the community disagrees with the american theory and i technicaly don't practice it. And in the trip i don't think you can show a moment when i'm negging a women (provided that you know exactly what a neg is)

btw... I don't think negging works as such,  because when most men who learn this and practice it just sound insulting! Women don't like being insulted..

It seems that it can help for the US hotties, but in my opinion not,  see my comment above

One final thing on this... and PLEASE don't feel like I'm bashing you - I'm just trying to snap you out of it and trying to help...  but...  .

I begin to think for the moment that you have a superficial reading of what i'm saying, but of course my english language is perhaps not the best one and sometimes it can lets some lack of understanding.

You've already come up with an excuse about a new boyfriend being the reason why she didn't respond to your repeated SMS's and phone call(s).  If you really had this "new behaviour" working so naturally, you wouldn't be making excuses for the loss...  and you wouldn't have been chasing her like a schoolboy..

Coming with an excuse ? It's a heavy probability which can explain that she is no longer interested by me.
I will deceive you i'm not a robot, and i had really like my time with the girl i've met in Dnepropetrovsk for my last meeting. I managed more and more with my internal emotionnal state, and also i have to protect myself. It's obvious that you are focusing about the game and not having understood the whole figure..
 

Be calm Pat...  enjoy the experience... just brush off all the silliness and let the real Pat come out.  You will find women who appreciate it and won't need a second SMS before responding to you..

Yes you are right, in a "genuine" relation you are waiting an answer, a non balanced relation never works. About the real Pat, he is writing now.

Yes, I believe this totally.  My wife is from Dnepropetrovsk and her sister lives in Moscow.  Her sister would NEVER go back to Dnepropetrovsk unless absolutely necessary because she thinks like many Muscovites now.


Perhaps i was not clear but her sister is not from Moscow, she lives in country very far from Russia. So all you are explaining below, in my opinion, even if it's valuables informations, and i thank you, is irrelevant..


Actually,  my MIL lives in Moscow too...  and even she thinks like a Muscovite - which drives my wife nuts!

In short... let me explain this to you...

My BIL is wealthy,  but above all he is a "True Moscow Man" (he proclaimed this to me with such pride one day).

In his mind there really is a pecking order:

1. Moscow is the greatest city on earth and old Moscow families are the best people on earth. 
2. Next comes St Pete people, and;
3. Then the rest of Russia...
4. But then it gets confusing because "Ukraine is rubbish bin Kuna, rubbish bin - but Ukraine is better than USA. Kuna, strange but true, this is my thinking. Even this rubbish bin is better than USA."

I HAD to ask the question,  "[INSERT HIS NAME HERE], what do you think of Australians,  where do we fit?"

He was puzzled for half a second and then he looked at me very seriously and said, "You married to our family now Kuna,  you are my family,  you are like real Moscow man too now." and then with a big smile on his face,  "Just from this strange place with kangaroo."

So yes,  I do believe that if her sister is in a similar frame of mind as my SIL then she would rarely EVER go back to Ukraine.
 
by the way... you can't be sure she's even in Moscow can you???  She may have used Moscow like neo's date used the three year old child when he met her in Kharkov....

You are right it's just a supposition
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 19, 2011, 01:40:36 PM
Dang! Patagonie! You must've ordered the same material from the same source (or attended the same seminar) as another member here who wrote about this stuff in this very site not too long ago...
 
LOL, if there really is a market for this type of material, I must say hooray for the author! The wealth he'll amassed alone should be enough to gitdemwimmen. That's the Game in itself, I would think..fast don't lie!
 
OTOH, it's a pretty sad state of affairs for the many on the other side of the fence it seems...but at least there's much to look forward to these days I gather...
 
Anyway, I haven't read the entire thread but I do hope things work out great for you!
 
Above all else, have a great time!

 
Hi GQ !
 You are right there is a market for this, and some are making reals profits around this business. I think they desserve it. But the problem is more about all others who try to do the same, saying they are pua, and are making their own training workshop, with probably not predictable results.
 And a lot of guys are trying by themselves with a quick reading of the topic, believing that it's like cooking, just need to know some recipes, and Hop, it will work. Now,  more and more guys are coming with the same sentences to introduce themelves in the first beginning of the pick up (canned stuff), and in some very social pubs girls begin to hear the same things and detect the stuff. A lot in guys' endeavors seem strange (no enough calibration)....
 
 
What it is gitdemwimmen ? I don't know. 
 Thank you for your support GQ, yes the better is to (try) enjoy every moment of our (too shortly) life.
Pat
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 19, 2011, 02:43:39 PM
I'm sorry Pat... I tried to help, but you don't understand.

I hope you don't have too many more failed trips to FSU before you realise you're on the wrong path.

Good luck.
.
 
Kuna.
 [correct me if i'm wrong]
I've read your story, if i summarize you had made a good questionning about yourself and what you were expecting from a girl. After, during the correspondance ,you had made a hard sort  to keep few challengers and you have been enough good to lost any among yours visits. You saw twice  (normally three, but it seems to me that one didn't show in Kiev). And you performed it during your first trip directly, no more than 3 weeks if i have good memory.
 In your country, previously, you had performed well with chicks. .
 I consider you like a strong guy who had make a good job, quickly. Some can say that you have been (expression of KenC which i don't remember like one week wonder or seeker, correct me if i'm wrong). But your marriage today shows that you have made a good choice, and a lot of people dreams to get the same story.
  About your acquaintance/buddy, i don't know him, but it's obvious that he hadn't performed a very talentuous game in front of you. Even probably you had had better results. I don't know what he had explained and what he had showed but if you rely on him to consider that you have a knowledge of the Game, i can say that the result is that you know in fact almost shit.
 
I'm going to give you two things which shows it :
  One of the gold rule is to always come under the radar, elseif you crash (play again)...
  The second is that comfort is one of the most important thing in seduction. I'm going to ask you (minus hooker, just a supposition formulated by me, as i have never use one), have you ever had sex with a woman who is uncomfortable with you ?
 
To summarize you are trying to say to me, hey guy drop game if you want to success in FSU. And me i'm answering, hey guy i will drop anything as you know almost shit about this damned thing, and last three years and half of my live showed me how it's accurate and how it has improved my life.
Of course FSU scene is a little different, the goal is also different, so i've to fit and adapt myself to something we would say "more simple". And as game is only accurate for the first meetings, a lot of things are more  important in the long term rather than the game.
 In FSU, something i really appreciate is the possibility to discuss quiclky around the very serious topics of a future union, which is absolutely impossible to do with a western woman (she would flee after twenty seconds).
 
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: GQBlues on June 20, 2011, 11:08:23 AM
....What it is gitdemwimmen ? I don't know. 
 Thank you for your support GQ, yes the better is to (try) enjoy every moment of our (too shortly) life.

It's a more of a stab at some of the colloquial urban-speak here in the US. I'm not sure if the root of the phrase has ebonic roots or redneck, but get them women, imply *getting more than just women's attention*.
 
As for the 'game', I suppose it's good and likely had done more than folks realize. Because of it, many had likely done more than they ever did before and that is to get out there and bust'a move (that's make the first step).
 
I caution you however, something that structured can not be a good thing as you already mentioned one of it's fratfalls. The undeniable common denominators with many real life PUAs is their innate ability to improvise as different conditions/situations present itself.
 
You just can't teach sexy, IMHO.  ;)
 
Good luck Pat!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Rubicon on June 20, 2011, 11:56:18 AM
Pat,

IMO Pick Up Artist methods are for guys who lack natural confidence.  So these methods may be helpful for you to learn things which may increase your confidence.  However you must not try to become somebody you are not.  Women like men with genuine confidence, honesty. and ability to be vulnerable and romantic at certain times.  If you refuse to ever be vulnerable to a woman's charms it may be detrimental.  Also, if you try to be somebody you are not, eventually she will see this and relationship will end.  So be careful with that stuff, and good luck.  I never read it or used it, I just learned over the years to be more confident with myself and that alone worked for me.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 20, 2011, 03:07:35 PM

It's a more of a stab at some of the colloquial urban-speak here in the US. I'm not sure if the root of the phrase has ebonic roots or redneck, but get them women, imply *getting more than just women's attention*.
 
As for the 'game', I suppose it's good and likely had done more than folks realize. Because of it, many had likely done more than they ever did before and that is to get out there and bust'a move (that's make the first step).
 
I caution you however, something that structured can not be a good thing as you already mentioned one of it's fratfalls. The undeniable common denominators with many real life PUAs is their innate ability to improvise as different conditions/situations present itself.
 
You just can't teach sexy, IMHO.  ;)
 
Good luck Pat!
.
Thank you GQ.  ;)
 
I'm now entering in the very secret word of the urban US words. :D So my english is improving, so next time, rather than say i've a crush, i would say i bust a move  :clapping: .  ;)
I will tell to my english teacher next sunday to see his face.  :) .  ;)
I like yours post GQ cool.
About PUA i don't consider myself as one, really. I just want to say you are right, before each travel i try to structure and schedule (logistic mainly), but really if events need i will not stick to the plan.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: GQBlues on June 20, 2011, 03:39:59 PM
....so next time, rather than say i've a crush, i would say i bust a move ....I will tell to my english teacher next sunday to see his face....

LOL Pat...don't do that!!! I got a D- from Gator's English class and he was in a good mood at the time!
 
If you can keep your emotions in check on-demand, then you've won half your battles. You'll be able to stay control of many situations when you give your heart a break and let your brain do the thinking, man. That's what they are for anyway...
 
You know what you want and you know what it takes and you know your worth. I am not telling you anything you don't already know, so just take care and have fun!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 21, 2011, 05:41:29 AM

LOL Pat...don't do that!!! I got a D- from Gator's English class and he was in a good mood at the time!
 
If you can keep your emotions in check on-demand, then you've won half your battles. You'll be able to stay control of many situations when you give your heart a break and let your brain do the thinking, man. That's what they are for anyway...
 
You know what you want and you know what it takes and you know your worth. I am not telling you anything you don't already know, so just take care and have fun!
Yes i know Gator i was with him in class too. I had always preferred to be near a good pupil, i had had always better marks near a good pupil. Thank you Gator  :applaud: :ROFL:
See know Operation White Panther 2nd edition if you want to know more. Now it's time for a second trip.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Kuna on June 21, 2011, 07:02:29 AM
have you ever had sex with a woman who is uncomfortable with you ?

OF COURSE!  Haven't you? Women have sex with men for all different reasons and sometimes a woman may WANT to feel "uncomfortable" with a man she submits to...   :P :P

The problem Pat is all the learned behaviour and the routines you practice to make perfect will make you blind to a woman's real feelings and reactions while you are "creating seduction".

Like I said earlier... I think men, ALL MEN, will do better with women when they are just themselves.

Those men that have zero experience with women will be so immobile with fear that they are certain to fail... but being immobile with fear is not "being themselves".

No need to continue this discussion... I have proved I am right... you're still learning.

If you're off on your next trip soon you'll have some clothes to match up with shoes and stuff.  Busy times.

Good luck... I genuinely mean that.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 21, 2011, 07:23:23 AM
Pat,

IMO Pick Up Artist methods are for guys who lack natural confidence.  So these methods may be helpful for you to learn things which may increase your confidence.  However you must not try to become somebody you are not.  Women like men with genuine confidence, honesty. and ability to be vulnerable and romantic at certain times.  If you refuse to ever be vulnerable to a woman's charms it may be detrimental.  Also, if you try to be somebody you are not, eventually she will see this and relationship will end.  So be careful with that stuff, and good luck.  I never read it or used it, I just learned over the years to be more confident with myself and that alone worked for me.
+2
You are right, if you are not what you are showing, later or sooner the girl will detect it.
To be more confident is especially important, and you can use a lot of tools to achieve it.
To be cut from yours emotions involves you are not really human, live a real life and protect yourself from pain is a difficult balance. I agree totally Rubicon.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on June 21, 2011, 11:01:17 AM
OF COURSE!  Haven't you? Women have sex with men for all different reasons and sometimes a woman may WANT to feel "uncomfortable" with a man she submits to...   :P :P


Ouch... so now we have you sub-categorized Kuna. Pun intended  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Kuna on June 21, 2011, 04:34:43 PM

Ouch... so now we have you sub-categorized Kuna. Pun intended  ;D
;D. My response was controversial on purpose but the truth is that women are interested in men at different times for different reasons. The problem for people following these 'routines' is that their script doesn't help them adjust their behavior according to the situation.

Take pat's last lady. He was so over the moon with her and felt like his routine ran perfectly but something made her run. He didn't pick up on it at the time because he was proably mire into his routine that her.

If he was just being natural and himself they may have had a more genuine interaction and she may have decided differently. Maybe not, but I'd suggest in this case the routine won the man instead of the man winning the lady.

All subjective of course because only she know why she lost interest.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 22, 2011, 01:33:30 AM
;D . My response was controversial on purpose but the truth is that women are interested in men at different times for different reasons. The problem for people following these 'routines' is that their script doesn't help them adjust their behavior according to the situation.


Take pat's last lady. He was so over the moon with her and felt like his routine ran perfectly but something made her run. He didn't pick up on it at the time because he was proably mire into his routine that her.

I don't use routine because routines are almost only for the pick up in the first minute. So as this lady has been introduced by the agency, i hadn't need to "pick up" her. And the problem of routines is that many guys are using the same now so girls detect you at first time. The purpose of routine is to avoid the stall moment and let you more ressources to manage your BL and all signals sent by the woman. Also it helps you to unraise your nervousness. Kuna,  rather than speak about something that it's obvious that  you have no knowledge, send me a PM before, thanks. 

If he was just being natural and himself they may have had a more genuine interaction and she may have decided differently. Maybe not, but I'd suggest in this case the routine won the man instead of the man winning the lady.


All subjective of course because only she know why she lost interest.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Kuna on June 22, 2011, 03:35:48 AM
Pat,

I've tried to be nice to you so far... I've tried to be supportive...  I've tried gently to give you advice and you've turned all nasty.  I know you're french but that's still not very nice.   8)

It's evident now that you're here just because you want to have your ideas validated.  We see that quite often in here and the outcome is almost always the same.  Train-wreck.

There have been some absolute whack-jobs come through here with any number of moronic ideas and they usually end up being very defensive, and often agressive,  but it almost always turns ut the same way.  Please don't follow their path.  You really don't need to go through that crap.

Here's a very honest piece of advice for you.  Don't reject uncomfortable advice when offered to you because there are many different approaches, perspectives and realities about this adventure.  If you out and out reject something because it makes you feel uncomfortable then you are ignoring something that may be very important.

Kuna
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 22, 2011, 05:43:09 AM
Pat,

I've tried to be nice to you so far... I've tried to be supportive...  I've tried gently to give you advice and you've turned all nasty.  I know you're french but that's still not very nice.   8)


Kuna, perhaps you don't like when someone is arguing with you, perhaps you don't like to learn  news things.

It's evident now that you're here just because you want to have your ideas validated.  We see that quite often in here and the outcome is almost always the same.  Train-wreck.

Everybody like to be validate (it's important to be accepted, humans are socials creatures), but sometimes the critic is good, and i'm listening now or later others, when it's relevant. I've learnt a lot with people, trying to compare and to know about their lifes. See Patagonie second edition, you will see that i'm not so stubborn, and thanks to ManLooking who's written a very pertinent post, (several in fact), which  i'm going to take in account. And in this second topic i'm auto critizing myself thanking Gator, ManLooking and Rubicon too. So perhaps i'm more open than you can imagine.

There have been some absolute whack-jobs come through here with any number of moronic ideas and they usually end up being very defensive, and often agressive,  but it almost always turns ut the same way.  Please don't follow their path.  You really don't need to go through that crap.

Here's a very honest piece of advice for you.  Don't reject uncomfortable advice when offered to you because there are many different approaches, perspectives and realities about this adventure.  If you out and out reject something because it makes you feel uncomfortable then you are ignoring something that may be very important.

I think your advice is very honest and i thank you but i think it's not relevant.
"If you out and out reject something because it makes you feel uncomfortable then you are ignoring something that may be very important."
You are right this is something we have a natural tendancy to do. And it's difficult to fight against. It's why experience and maturity help.

I just invite you to read again which words you are using in this post :  you're french but that's still not very nice, whack-jobs, moronic ideas.
Have a nice day, Pat.

Kuna
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Kuna on June 24, 2011, 11:20:46 PM
Kuna, perhaps you don't like when someone is arguing with you, perhaps you don't like to learn  news things.

Pat, 

You're got nothing to teach me. 

I'll enjoy watching your future posts and the "very likely" outcomes.  Nothing is guaranteed of course... but based on your mentality you're well on the path of discomfort.

Kuna
(the happily married one, who didn't spend most of his preparation arranging clothing)

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on July 03, 2011, 08:07:26 AM
A lot of FSU women don't have a real idea of what is the cost of this sort of travel, financially, in time vacation, emotionally and it's not resting at all. So for some (or many?) your time is free. The time you offerer to her, in particular in a VM, if she don't get it, she excludes herself from the race. GIRLS : when a guy shows, and if he is challenger, you must priorize him high in your time, as possible, even if you have had any contact before, and try to spend with him as MANY time AS POSSIBLE .

Patagonie, you just didn't understand her reply. It wasn't the case of her being stupid, or irrational. She politely (in a Ukrainian politeness style) told you: "I am not interested in meeting with you."
You are trying to teach the woman how to spend "as many time as possible" with the man, while the woman doesn't plan to spend any time with this man at all.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 04, 2011, 01:53:27 PM
Patagonie, you just didn't understand her reply. It wasn't the case of her being stupid, or irrational. She politely (in a Ukrainian politeness style) told you: "I am not interested in meeting with you."
You are trying to teach the woman how to spend "as many time as possible" with the man, while the woman doesn't plan to spend any time with this man at all.

If you speak about CaptainOfCustoms,
You are yet right, she was not enough interested.
Guys listen Mies : here she is explaining about the Ukrainian politeness style. And some guys are not understanding because women try to stay very polite and kind.
In Europe they are more harsh by finding moronic pretexts.

About what i was saying, it's true that sometimes girls in FSU are loosing the sense of the time, their time is not the same as the time of the man, but for this one time is really counted. (it was what i want to mean)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on July 05, 2011, 12:54:01 AM
Guys listen Mies : here she is explaining about the Ukrainian politeness style. And some guys are not understanding because women try to stay very polite and kind.
In Europe they are more harsh by finding moronic pretexts.

An Ukrainian girl once told me about this guy that she met after writing with him. When she met him, she was disappointed by his rather old age. He had sent her very old photos of himself. She told me about their meetings and I asked her why she continued to meet him when she wasn't interested in him. She answered she didn't want to be impolite!
 
I'm not a long time player here, but I have found that if a girl is really interested in you, there is no doubt in your mind about it. You will know that she's really interested in you and will show it in so many ways, it's fantastic. I have never continued over time contact with girls that were less than very interested in me and have thus avoided spending months wondering about her.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 05, 2011, 01:00:17 PM

An Ukrainian girl once told me about this guy that she met after writing with him. When she met him, she was disappointed by his rather old age. He had sent her very old photos of himself. She told me about their meetings and I asked her why she continued to meet him when she wasn't interested in him. She answered she didn't want to be impolite!
 
I'm not a long time player here, but I have found that if a girl is really interested in you, there is no doubt in your mind about it. You will know that she's really interested in you and will show it in so many ways, it's fantastic. I have never continued over time contact with girls that were less than very interested in me and have thus avoided spending months wondering about her.
In real life not so much women are REALLY interested. This is true, i agree, so better to focus in a long term relation ship to those who are really interested.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on July 05, 2011, 01:40:38 PM
As the saying goes, "A man will know if a RW likes him."  The RW I met did not play "hard to get" games. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 08, 2011, 10:37:45 AM
As the saying goes, "A man will know if a RW likes him."  The RW I met did not play "hard to get" games.
I agree this a general rule, but you must balance by  :
How many meetings she had had with foreigners
How many time she had lived abroad
How many time she has spend in social event (locally)
And how beautiful she is.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: OlgaH on July 14, 2011, 06:18:52 PM
As the saying goes, "A man will know if a RW likes him."  The RW I met did not play "hard to get" games.

or if she doesn't like him and you should take her first criticism and rebukes seriously as she doesn't play any game at all. Also beware of the folding couches  ;D

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/07/09/us-couch-idUSL0919437820080709 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/07/09/us-couch-idUSL0919437820080709)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: GQBlues on July 14, 2011, 08:08:53 PM
I agree this a general rule, but you must balance by  :
How many meetings she had had with foreigners
How many time she had lived abroad
How many time she has spend in social event (locally)
And how beautiful she is.

Good report so far Patagonie. Keep it coming and if and when you get a chance, some good photos will be stupendous!. Not of inanimate objects or statue of Lenin standing up, Lenin holding a book, Lenin up on a horse...but you know, good 'live' photos to accompany the players in the story.. ;)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 14, 2011, 08:14:03 PM
I agree this a general rule, but you must balance by  :
How many meetings she had had with foreigners
How many time she had lived abroad
How many time she has spend in social event (locally)
And how beautiful she is.


Why? Generally, a woman who falls for you will do it within the first minute. I can't see why a woman who is smitten would play coy no matter how many foreigners she has met or how often or how long she has lived abroad  ::)  My wife's father lives in Germany, she visited Germany and Europe many times and of course met many men (and women and children) when in Germany. I still knew the first date even if she had spend close to two years total in Europe and was very beautiful  :-X
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on July 14, 2011, 08:39:29 PM

Why? Generally, a woman who falls for you will do it within the first minute. I can't see why a woman who is smitten would play coy no matter how many foreigners she has met or how often or how long she has lived abroad   . . . .

I have seen this stated often, but I am not so sure about it.

I can remember instances with two women.  One was somewhat 'standoffish' for almost the entire first date (first 4 hours or so of it).  Then, I did something (won't say what) and she melted into me.

The second was fairly 'standoffish' for almost 3 dates.  I only went on the latter 2 with her because I had nothing else to do and didn't want to be by myself.  She also turned into a real romantic and we are still 'together.'  So go figure.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 15, 2011, 09:16:27 AM

Good report so far Patagonie. Keep it coming and if and when you get a chance, some good photos will be stupendous!. Not of inanimate objects or statue of Lenin standing up, Lenin holding a book, Lenin up on a horse...but you know, good 'live' photos to accompany the players in the story.. ;)
:ROFL: :ROFL:
I think i go far in description and what about i think. The problem of privates photos is that they are .....  private. I mean, showing a face is for me something really tricky. Question of respect. I can perhaps show their back  :ROFL:
Tank you for your support.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 15, 2011, 09:20:35 AM
or if she doesn't like him and you should take her first criticism and rebukes seriously as she doesn't play any game at all. Also beware of the folding couches  ;D

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/07/09/us-couch-idUSL0919437820080709 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/07/09/us-couch-idUSL0919437820080709)
Yes we can say that they doesn't play any games when it's time to rebuke the man.
OlgaH, i never had a folding couch so i can escape by any direction (except wall side).
 :P 8)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 15, 2011, 09:45:42 AM

Why? Generally, a woman who falls for you will do it within the first minute. I can't see why a woman who is smitten would play coy no matter how many foreigners she has met or how often or how long she has lived abroad  ::)  My wife's father lives in Germany, she visited Germany and Europe many times and of course met many men (and women and children) when in Germany. I still knew the first date even if she had spend close to two years total in Europe and was very beautiful  :-X
We are going in a huge topic, i'm afraid of. You are using a single example whereas i speak in general manner.
To make short, women in the west start slowly in a relationship, quite the opposite of men.

More time she (FSU woman) spends in international dating and more  prone she will to play the hard to get game.
Any time her ego is boosted (local social events, travels outside FSU, tons of meeting with foreigners) and more prone she will be to play hard to get (i don't say prouder she will be, i said ego).
What is the main difference between FSU women and western women ?????
Tell me guys : EGO. Why western  big ass full of fat think they are stars ? EGO. Quite the contrary with FSU women.
Push a FSU go along the western life (many guys chasing few women) and EGO will increase. So it's why western chicks, and in particular the cute women, play hard to get.
INDEPENDANTLY of her personnality and the time needed to win the woman (the theory says in average eights hours in western standards)
Tell me why divorced fsu girls in Europe and USA want an age gap really less important than in FSU ? Tell me fellows, because they understood their new value, their ego have raised.
The problem is that we have chicks here  who think that  they are diamonds whereas they are not even a 7, with nothing special. And they believe they are specials.
It's why masters (pua) have created the neg. The neg is only done to decrease the ego of such gals (9 category in general, but depends also of the EGO of the girl). The game is done to raise your value and decrease her in the first beginning of the pick up.
Pat. I have a lot to say, probably episode 2. Sincerely.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 15, 2011, 09:57:04 AM
I have seen this stated often, but I am not so sure about it.

I can remember instances with two women.  One was somewhat 'standoffish' for almost the entire first date (first 4 hours or so of it).  Then, I did something (won't say what) and she melted into me.

The second was fairly 'standoffish' for almost 3 dates.  I only went on the latter 2 with her because I had nothing else to do and didn't want to be by myself.  She also turned into a real romantic and we are still 'together.'  So go figure.

Sometimes, from what I have observed, the feelings are there, but women do their best to repress them. Other times a woman may decide that a man is right for her without having fallen in love. Occasionally, it may happen a bit later. Personally, in my opinion and based solely on my lived experience that may not apply to everybody as there might be an exception somewhere (sorry, I have to satisfy the pedants), if a woman is not showing strong emotions or interest by the end of the third date, it is best to move on...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 15, 2011, 10:55:42 AM
Sometimes, from what I have observed, the feelings are there, but women do their best to repress them. Other times a woman may decide that a man is right for her without having fallen in love. Occasionally, it may happen a bit later. Personally, in my opinion and based solely on my lived experience that may not apply to everybody as there might be an exception somewhere (sorry, I have to satisfy the pedants), if a woman is not showing strong emotions or interest by the end of the third date, it is best to move on...
+1
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on July 15, 2011, 03:47:29 PM
Misha:  "Generally, a woman who falls for you will do it within the first minute."

ML then gives his experience.

New Misha: ". . . if a woman is not showing strong emotions or interest by the end of the third date, it is best to move on..."
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 15, 2011, 03:53:44 PM
Misha:  "Generally, a woman who falls for you will do it within the first minute."

ML then gives his experience.

New Misha: ". . . if a woman is not showing strong emotions or interest by the end of the third date, it is best to move on..."


Yes, and that is why I used the word "Generally" in my post, and yes, I actually read other people's comments, think about them, and sometimes even come to agree with what they said, even changing my opinion from time to time on a given topic....


  :shock:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Lily on July 15, 2011, 04:21:10 PM

Push a FSU go along the western life (many guys chasing few women) and EGO will increase. So it's why western chicks, and in particular the cute women, play hard to get.
INDEPENDANTLY of her personnality and the time needed to win the woman (the theory says in average eights hours in western standards)
Tell me why divorced fsu girls in Europe and USA want an age gap really less important than in FSU ? Tell me fellows, because they understood their new value, their ego have raised.
The problem is that we have chicks here  who think that  they are diamonds whereas they are not even a 7, with nothing special. And they believe they are specials.
 

Well, I am a single FSU woman in Canada, and not sure that I understand what you mean should happen to my ego. :) I see that I do have choices in men here. But as far as my being 'special' is concerned, I am still the same as I used to be all my life. What has changed in terms of dating, is the number of local men who might be interested in me. No additions to my 'value', in fact.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 15, 2011, 11:50:32 PM
Well, I am a single FSU woman in Canada, and not sure that I understand what you mean should happen to my ego. :) I see that I do have choices in men here. But as far as my being 'special' is concerned, I am still the same as I used to be all my life. What has changed in terms of dating, is the number of local men who might be interested in me. No additions to my 'value', in fact.

You are still the same - yes, as far as you are concerned, because obviously you believe that you have changed little over the years.  However, to the locals (whether in Toronto or further afield) you are still an exotic newcomer.  For that reason at least, assuming that you identify yourself as Russian, you will probably generate a little more interest than a Canadian woman of the same age and level of beauty who many men will pass up as "familiar."
 
As for the distances involved, think of those of us who have travelled from Australia or New Zealand to western Russia and Ukraine, or from the USA to central Siberia, to find our "dream woman" (or who have been disappointed when they meet her).  It makes your story of guys reluctant to travel all the way across Toronto (30 km?) seem extremely unlikely candidates for any "How far I went to meet my FSU wife" competition!  :cluebat:
 
As for "special" - you have travelled halfway around the world, leaving what sounds like a very interesting job (to me, anyway), to try to fulfil your own personal quest in a country where you knew nobody and spoke little of the language.  That you have mostly succeeded (your English is now great, and in a couple of years, maybe less, you will be a full member of the Canadian Bar) makes you a VERY special lady in my eyes.  What a shame that the local guys don't recognise such a quality jewel in their midst!  :flowers:
 
It would be nice to think that in a few months your status may change to "committed," all because some nice Canadian man actually followed through on his first impulse when seeing your photo.
 
My apologies Pat - didn't really mean to hijack the thread, but some women just don't recognise a good thing when they look in the mirror!  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Lily on July 16, 2011, 05:47:50 AM
Thank you so much Anotherkiwi for your kindness! The point of RW being 'exotic' for Americans might be interesting, though. My post was a reaction to the Pat's observation that RW change as soon as they start their lives in the West. Pat believes that this is because the dating dynamics shifts and their desirability change.On my part, I don't understand how multiple signs of attention from men can have any influence on the ego. And I am a RW in the West, I don't quite agree with Pat on this :)  although exceptions may happen.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on July 16, 2011, 05:54:57 PM
On my part, I don't understand how multiple signs of attention from men can have any influence on the ego.

Lily, I can't believe you wrote such words. :o

I think it is quite common (and quite understandable why) that people (both men and women) do start feeling differently (whether we want to refer to ego or something else) when they start getting more attention from opposite gender.

Actually, most of us start thinking differently about ourself when we get attention from even one person.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Kuna on July 16, 2011, 06:43:02 PM
Lily, I can't believe you wrote such words. :o

I think it is quite common (and quite understandable why) that people (both men and women) do start feeling differently (whether we want to refer to ego or something else) when they start getting more attention from opposite gender.

Actually, most of us start thinking differently about ourself when we get attention from even one person.

You're assuming she is driven by ego in the first place.  I know many people so driven by logic that ego is well contained in their lives.

Different strokes for different folks.

There's no doubt many people (men and women) change when they immigrate but it doesn't mean their ego will grow exponentially just because they have more options.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on July 16, 2011, 07:27:10 PM

Why? Generally, a woman who falls for you will do it within the first minute. I can't see why a woman who is smitten would play coy no matter how many foreigners she has met or how often or how long she has lived abroad  ::)  My wife's father lives in Germany, she visited Germany and Europe many times and of course met many men (and women and children) when in Germany. I still knew the first date even if she had spend close to two years total in Europe and was very beautiful  :-X

Misha, I will have to disagree with you on this one, especially if you are talking about WMVM international dating. Ask your wife the meaning of:
- быстрота нужна при ловле блох
- "Скоро только кошки родятся" (from the "12 chairs" book)

Showing within the first minute that she fell for a guy, while knowing that the guy is probably seeing 3-5 other women today might get a woman to bed with this guy, but not very likely will make her competitive with other 3-5 women and increase her chances for marrying this guy. Plus, keep in mind that not all women want to compete, some want to be "the only ones," want to see how this particular guy is serious about them, and whether they are his #1 on a list, or make sure that he does not have the lengthy list of ranked women, before they show him any sort of affection or strong interest.
What you may take for "woman being into you" can be common among ukrainian and russian women "politeness". It can mean something, or it can mean nothing.     


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Lily on July 16, 2011, 07:28:29 PM
Lily, I can't believe you wrote such words. :o

I think it is quite common (and quite understandable why) that people (both men and women) do start feeling differently (whether we want to refer to ego or something else) when they start getting more attention from opposite gender.

Actually, most of us start thinking differently about ourself when we get attention from even one person.

Feeling differently, yes. But how can we think differently about ourselves when we receive more attention from other people? We are still the same, not better and not worse, only the situation is now in our favor.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on July 16, 2011, 07:41:58 PM
Feeling differently, yes. But how can we think differently about ourselves when we receive more attention from other people? We are still the same, not better and not worse, only the situation is now in our favor.

Watch this movie when you get a chance:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfUt8bN0zc0[/youtube]

 I think this is what ManLooking and Patagonie meant.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2011, 09:17:05 PM
However, to the locals (whether in Toronto or further afield) you are still an exotic newcomer. 

Half of Toronto's population is foreign born, so foreigners are not particularly exotic there.

Sorry, Patagonie, for hijacking your thread.  I hope your trip is still going well, and I look forward to your posts on your continued success.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 16, 2011, 10:25:33 PM
Misha, I will have to disagree with you on this one, especially if you are talking about WMVM international dating. Ask your wife the meaning of:
- быстрота нужна при ловле блох
- "Скоро только кошки родятся" (from the "12 chairs" book)


Why should I ask my wife, I am perfectly capable of reading Russian. The fact of the matter is that attraction is decided quite quickly and most often it is unconscious and we are processing information that we do not know we are gathering and without even knowing we are doing it. The BBC has a fascinating set of articles on the science of falling in love that I would recommend:


A quote:
Quote
It can take between 90 seconds and 4 minutes to decide if we fancy someone. But this has little to do with your smooth-talking. As far as attraction goes, here's how we get the message:
  • 55% is through body language
  • 38% is the tone and speed of our voice[/size][/font][/color]
  • Only 7% is through what we say

I have never timed how long it takes for a cat to give birth to kittens, but it would certainly take more than 90 seconds and perhaps even more than 4 minutes ;)


This as described by the BBC matches my experience. Either attraction is there or it isn't and usually the falling in love stage happens quickly or it doesn't. Of course, it takes time for the falling in love phase to be replaced by a love that is more than hormonal.


Quote
Showing within the first minute that she fell for a guy, while knowing that the guy is probably seeing 3-5 other women today might get a woman to bed with this guy, but not very likely will make her competitive with other 3-5 women and increase her chances for marrying this guy.


Sure, she can fake it, but generally if it is real, the man should hopefully be able to figure it out.


Quote
What you may take for "woman being into you" can be common among ukrainian and russian women "politeness". It can mean something, or it can mean nothing.   


Personally, I spend more than enough time with Russians to know the difference between politeness and a "woman being into me." Of course, this does not apply to all men, but if a man is paying attention, he should learn how to quickly learn to identify important non-verbal cues that will guide him.


PS - The Science of Love: http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/love/index.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/love/index.shtml)
The Science of Flirting: http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/love/flirting.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/love/flirting.shtml)[/list]
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 17, 2011, 03:29:22 AM
Half of Toronto's population is foreign born, so foreigners are not particularly exotic there.

Thanks Boethius - I didn't know that.  However, a beautiful Russian woman should still stand out, shouldn't she?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 17, 2011, 05:22:27 AM
Thank you so much Anotherkiwi for your kindness! The point of RW being 'exotic' for Americans might be interesting, though. My post was a reaction to the Pat's observation that RW change as soon as they start their lives in the West. Pat believes that this is because the dating dynamics shifts and their desirability change.On my part, I don't understand how multiple signs of attention from men can have any influence on the ego. And I am a RW in the West, I don't quite agree with Pat on this :)  although exceptions may happen.

Lily, when i'm saying that divorced FSU women in western countries have a general increase of ego, it's in general manner. They surely not reach their western counterparts.
You, you don't have changed in yourself, this is worthly Lily, you are a worthly woman.  :flowers:
You know some people, if we speak about money and social, who can keep roughly the same EGO, like Warren Buffet or Anthony Robbins.  Some never forgot where do they come from and some quickly forget who they have been.

But you agree yourselve that you get more attention signs in the west from man. This is the potential and clear reason which explains the general trend ego boost for women living in the west.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 17, 2011, 05:28:33 AM
Thank you so much Anotherkiwi for your kindness! The point of RW being 'exotic' for Americans might be interesting, though. My post was a reaction to the Pat's observation that RW change as soon as they start their lives in the West. Pat believes that this is because the dating dynamics shifts and their desirability change.On my part, I don't understand how multiple signs of attention from men can have any influence on the ego. And I am a RW in the West, I don't quite agree with Pat on this :)  although exceptions may happen.
Lily i spoke about divorced women which means that they have already spent few times in west, so "as they start their lives in the West" is not my post.
" My post was a reaction to the Pat's observation that RW change as soon as they start their lives in the West. Pat believes that this is because the dating dynamics shifts and their desirability change.On my part, I don't understand how multiple signs of attention from men can have any influence on the ego". I confirm here my opinion that divorced FSU women show that they have shifted by wanting a significant less age gap rather than those who live in FSU. But my concern is more about western women and how high are their ego. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 17, 2011, 05:31:13 AM
Lily, I can't believe you wrote such words. :o

I think it is quite common (and quite understandable why) that people (both men and women) do start feeling differently (whether we want to refer to ego or something else) when they start getting more attention from opposite gender.

Actually, most of us start thinking differently about ourself when we get attention from even one person.
+1
If a girl is interested in you you will notice her and you will be MORE interested in her than an other one (for the same level of beauty and all parameters being equals)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 17, 2011, 05:39:36 AM
Misha, I will have to disagree with you on this one, especially if you are talking about WMVM international dating. Ask your wife the meaning of:
- быстрота нужна при ловле блох
- "Скоро только кошки родятся" (from the "12 chairs" book)

Showing within the first minute that she fell for a guy, while knowing that the guy is probably seeing 3-5 other women today might get a woman to bed with this guy, but not very likely will make her competitive with other 3-5 women and increase her chances for marrying this guy. Plus, keep in mind that not all women want to compete, some want to be "the only ones," want to see how this particular guy is serious about them, and whether they are his #1 on a list, or make sure that he does not have the lengthy list of ranked women, before they show him any sort of affection or strong interest.
What you may take for "woman being into you" can be common among ukrainian and russian women "politeness". It can mean something, or it can mean nothing.   
Mies is wise, i add a +1 here. You will see in episode 2 interesting examples around meetings which illustrate such opinions.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 17, 2011, 05:56:33 AM
  • Why should I ask my wife, I am perfectly capable of reading Russian. The fact of the matter is that attraction is decided quite quickly and most often it is unconscious and we are processing information that we do not know we are gathering and without even knowing we are doing it. The BBC has a fascinating set of articles on the science of falling in love that I would recommend:


    A quote:
    I have never timed how long it takes for a cat to give birth to kittens, but it would certainly take more than 90 seconds and perhaps even more than 4 minutes ;)


    This as described by the BBC matches my experience. Either attraction is there or it isn't and usually the falling in love stage happens quickly or it doesn't. Of course, it takes time for the falling in love phase to be replaced by a love that is more than hormonal.



    Sure, she can fake it, but generally if it is real, the man should hopefully be able to figure it out.



    Personally, I spend more than enough time with Russians to know the difference between politeness and a "woman being into me." Of course, this does not apply to all men, but if a man is paying attention, he should learn how to quickly learn to identify important non-verbal cues that will guide him.


    PS - The Science of Love:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/love/index.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/love/index.shtml)
The Science of Flirting: http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/love/flirting.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/love/flirting.shtml)[/q]

Misha interesting post.
The time to fancy someone is more about what you are describing :
  • 55% is through body language
  • 38% is the tone and speed of our voice
  • Only 7% is through what we say
But Misha i would not use the term of love. You are not enough accurate. Like guy you are passing the attraction test with a woman, and this test during the first minutes is essentialy based on your body language (and body means clothes as i never saw a guy successful naked) and your voice. Please don't speak about love it's too early.

"Sure, she can fake it, but generally if it is real, the man should hopefully be able to figure it out." Not sure. Women are master in controlling themelves and being manipulatives.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Lily on July 17, 2011, 07:19:59 AM
Misha, I will have to disagree with you on this one, especially if you are talking about WMVM international dating. Ask your wife the meaning of:
- быстрота нужна при ловле блох
- "Скоро только кошки родятся" (from the "12 chairs" book)

Showing within the first minute that she fell for a guy, while knowing that the guy is probably seeing 3-5 other women today might get a woman to bed with this guy, but not very likely will make her competitive with other 3-5 women and increase her chances for marrying this guy. Plus, keep in mind that not all women want to compete, some want to be "the only ones," want to see how this particular guy is serious about them, and whether they are his #1 on a list, or make sure that he does not have the lengthy list of ranked women, before they show him any sort of affection or strong interest.
What you may take for "woman being into you" can be common among ukrainian and russian women "politeness". It can mean something, or it can mean nothing.   

Fully agree with mies here :)

How many times did I saw that guys just confuse signs of attraction with a woman being just polite. Men may believe, how could she write me a reply if she is not sure about her interest? Well, it is a basic politeness, that's why she bothered to jot you a line. How could she come to see me if she is not into me? Well, she is appreciative of your interest, and is naturally curious, that's why.

However, to determine whether a physical attraction is here, a few minutes would be by far not enough. An hour, may be. Trying to kiss may eventually be a kind of test. But even here, she may try to suppress her guts that tell her no. I think that the woman will be asking her instincts the same question quite intensively, during all your meeting, and will see what do they tell her! :)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 17, 2011, 08:21:20 AM
But Misha i would not use the term of love. You are not enough accurate. Like guy you are passing the attraction test with a woman, and this test during the first minutes is essentialy based on your body language (and body means clothes as i never saw a guy successful naked) and your voice. Please don't speak about love it's too early.

"Sure, she can fake it, but generally if it is real, the man should hopefully be able to figure it out." Not sure. Women are master in controlling themelves and being manipulatives.

I made the distinction between falling in love and love. The falling in love, the giddy chemical-driven sensations, generally happens relatively quickly (though I am sure there is somebody out there that will come up with an exception). Usually it will be quite instantaneous (hence the expression love at first sight) or it will develop over a period of hours or days. This is when your brain is making a host of chemicals that leads to the giddiness, euphoric feelings etc... Women experience it as do men. These sensations do fade over time and couples who fell in love hopefully will make the transition to simply loving each other and this takes more time.

Is it possible for couple to love each other over time without having fallen in love? Yes, of course. Many married couples in arranged marriages may never have fallen in love yet at the end will truly love each other.

At the end of the day, we all make our own choices. I, personally, did not want to marry a woman who was getting married in the hopes that love would eventually develop over time. I wanted somebody who did fall in love, I wanted passion and I wanted for the falling in love to be mutual. In my personal opinion and based on my own experience, believe it if you wish or not, but I do believe that it is possible if you pay attention to know if a woman has fallen in love (again not to be confused with love).   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 17, 2011, 08:32:37 AM
However, to determine whether a physical attraction is here, a few minutes would be by far not enough.

You are right, it takes more than a few minutes to identify. However, the point of the BBC article was that it happens in a few minutes. You are often smitten within minutes.

Quote
An hour, may be. Trying to kiss may eventually be a kind of test. But even here, she may try to suppress her guts that tell her no. I think that the woman will be asking her instincts the same question quite intensively, during all your meeting, and will see what do they tell her! :)

If you go to a restaurant or a café and simply observe a young couple on a romantic date, you can quite easily tell whether they both have romantic feelings for each other even if they do not kiss. Do they lean in to each other? Do they mirror each other? How much eye contact is there? What is their posture? Do they touch each other if only briefly? There is a host of clues being communicated unconsciously through body language, clues that are not necessarily that easy to fake for several hours...

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on July 17, 2011, 09:48:58 AM
  • Why should I ask my wife, I am perfectly capable of reading Russian. The fact of the matter is that attraction is decided quite quickly and most often it is unconscious and we are processing information that we do not know we are gathering and without even knowing we are doing it.

So you've read "the 12 chairs" book and know the context I am referring to? :)

I did not say you should ask your wife to translate for you these phrases, I suggested that she can share with you more details on the meaning of those phrases. But maybe you were born and raised in Russia, or studied Russian culture and literature for many years, so you don't need this. Then disregard.. :)

Of course attraction/need to do something/stimuli to act in a certain way are often felt within first seconds/minutes. Whether to show it is a different matter. Let's say you realize you need to use the restroom, but you aren't going to go and pee in the middle of the street. More likely you will look for the toilet.
Or suppose you meet a married woman while her husband is standing by her side. She is everything you've ever dreamed about in a woman. Are you going to show right away how you feel about her?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 17, 2011, 10:31:23 AM
Of course attraction/need to do something/stimuli to act in a certain way are often felt within first seconds/minutes. Whether to show it is a different matter. Let's say you realize you need to use the restroom, but you aren't going to go and pee in the middle of the street. More likely you will look for the toilet.
Or suppose you meet a married woman while her husband is standing by her side. She is everything you've ever dreamed about in a woman. Are you going to show right away how you feel about her?

Given two options: dating a woman that I fell in love with and who fell in love with me or dating a woman whereby at least one did not fall in love with the other, I would go for the first option and if I had only option 2 available, it would be best IMHO to keep looking.

I am not sure, though, what is precisely the point you are trying to make. I did my best to avoid dating married women and yes, I prefer bathroom when I have to go and there is one available.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 17, 2011, 10:48:21 AM
So you've read "the 12 chairs" book and know the context I am referring to? :)

I did not say you should ask your wife to translate for you these phrases, I suggested that she can share with you more details on the meaning of those phrases. But maybe you were born and raised in Russia, or studied Russian culture and literature for many years, so you don't need this. Then disregard.. :)

Of course attraction/need to do something/stimuli to act in a certain way are often felt within first seconds/minutes. Whether to show it is a different matter. Let's say you realize you need to use the restroom, but you aren't going to go and pee in the middle of the street. More likely you will look for the toilet.
Or suppose you meet a married woman while her husband is standing by her side. She is everything you've ever dreamed about in a woman. Are you going to show right away how you feel about her?
1/ If i know the man (husband) i would avoid her wife at anytime and/or will do all my best to not let any ambiguous situation happen.
2/ In almost all the time  i would avoid married women, there are a lot of women who are singles, so really, why search complicated situations ?
3/ if it's just to chase, perhaps, avoiding the fall in love/love situation (Misha parameters  :D ) as possible. ONS category in my western life in the west.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on July 17, 2011, 02:32:23 PM
Given two options: dating a woman that I fell in love with and who fell in love with me or dating a woman whereby at least one did not fall in love with the other, I would go for the first option and if I had only option 2 available, it would be best IMHO to keep looking.

I am not sure, though, what is precisely the point you are trying to make. I did my best to avoid dating married women and yes, I prefer bathroom when I have to go and there is one available.

My point is that in many cases when RW meets a foreigner first time (even after some period of online correspondence), the foreigner is a "black box" for her, she does not know if he is a good person or bad, if he came with intent to marry or he is a sex tourist, if he is going to see more women today or she is the only one. Because of this uncertainty, the woman can temporarily suppress the urge to kiss/touch/etc this man, just like you will make sure that your actions are appropriate (use a restroom and date single women vs. peeing on a street or hitting on married woman) and will not cause any negative outcome for her. Showing a man that she is interested in him, and starting romance quickly, only to find out 5 days later that he is a player and a sex-tourist, is definitely a negative outcome for a serious marriage-minded woman. It is not about playing "hard to get", it is about "not wasting pearls on swines" ("не мечите бисер перед свиньями").
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on July 17, 2011, 02:38:11 PM
1/ If i know the man (husband) i would avoid her wife at anytime and/or will do all my best to not let any ambiguous situation happen.
2/ In almost all the time  i would avoid married women, there are a lot of women who are singles, so really, why search complicated situations ?
3/ if it's just to chase, perhaps, avoiding the fall in love/love situation (Misha parameters  :D ) as possible. ONS category in my western life in the west.

Exactly my point. When you know for sure that woman is unavailable - you will not be looking for complicated situations.
For a woman who sees you first time - she does not know whether you are available for her, for the kind of relationship she is looking for. So she may wait some until before revealing her interest: in order to avoid "complicated situations", she will try to get to know you first.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 17, 2011, 02:42:30 PM
My point is that in many cases when RW meets a foreigner first time (even after some period of online correspondence), the foreigner is a "black box" for her, she does not know if he is a good person or bad, if he came with intent to marry or he is a sex tourist, if he is going to see more women today or she is the only one.


The same could be said of a Russian woman meeting a Russian man in person for the first time. She has no way or really knowing if he is really interested in a relationship or a one-night stand.


Quote
Because of this uncertainty, the woman can temporarily suppress the urge to kiss/touch/etc this man, just like you will make sure that your actions are appropriate (use a restroom and date single women vs. peeing on a street or hitting on married woman) and will not cause any negative outcome for her.


Yes, I did meet such a woman once. Dated her several times and she gave zero sign that she was interested. Decided that life is too short and moved on.


However, I am really happy that I did not have to meet women who were meeting foreigners via agencies.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on July 17, 2011, 07:58:57 PM

The same could be said of a Russian woman meeting a Russian man in person for the first time. She has no way or really knowing if he is really interested in a relationship or a one-night stand.

No. The same could not be said about Russian men, because Russian men are not commonly known for having a tight schedule of several "dates" in each day of their weekly visit, when they have to run from one date to another, or ask interpreter/friend/acquaintance to entertain the next date while they are finishing the previous one. While foreign men, especially those in international dating, have exactly this reputation among Russian women.

Yes, I did meet such a woman once. Dated her several times and she gave zero sign that she was interested. Decided that life is too short and moved on.

However, I am really happy that I did not have to meet women who were meeting foreigners via agencies.
Since you are married, I assume you made all good choices in the past. But I do not think that you should advise every man on this board to discard reserved women.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 17, 2011, 08:37:38 PM
No. The same could not be said about Russian men, because Russian men are not commonly known for having a tight schedule of several "dates" in each day of their weekly visit, when they have to run from one date to another, or ask interpreter/friend/acquaintance to entertain the next date while they are finishing the previous one.


Well, the juggling of dates with different women will be there, but in a different form and spread over a bit more time  ;) 



Quote
Since you are married, I assume you made all good choices in the past. But I do not think that you should advise every man on this board to discard reserved women.


Again, speaking from personal experience, I did not want to be with a woman if I had any doubts and if she was so reserved that she did not allow any feelings or emotions to go through or who was not willing to take some risks for love. I did not want to be with a woman unless I knew that there was passion and that I was the man she truly wanted to be with, a man she had fallen in love with. I did not want to be the consolation prize, I did not want to be with a woman who was with me solely по расчёту. At the end of day, I am very  happy. Five years later, I do not doubt that my wife loves me dearly.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 18, 2011, 01:05:23 AM

No. The same could not be said about Russian men, because Russian men are not commonly known for having a tight schedule of several "dates" in each day of their weekly visit, when they have to run from one date to another, or ask interpreter/friend/acquaintance to entertain the next date while they are finishing the previous one. While foreign men, especially those in international dating, have exactly this reputation among Russian women.
 Since you are married, I assume you made all good choices in the past. But I do not think that you should advise every man on this board to discard reserved women.
This is interesting, in Operation White Panther 2nd edition we will see which type of problem can happen with such behavior "reserved women", when they date a foreigner with a tight schedule.
I would replaced this sentence "But I do not think that you should advise every man on this board to discard reserved women." by "how can i advice reserved women to not be discarded by visiting foreigner with tight schedule". Later in Operation White Panther 2nd edition.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on July 18, 2011, 06:04:36 PM

Well, the juggling of dates with different women will be there, but in a different form and spread over a bit more time  ;) 




Again, speaking from personal experience, I did not want to be with a woman if I had any doubts and if she was so reserved that she did not allow any feelings or emotions to go through or who was not {a woman} willing to take some risks for love. I did not want to be with a woman unless I knew that there was passion and that I was the man she truly wanted to be with, a man she had fallen in love with. I did not want to be the consolation prize, I did not want to be with a woman who was with me solely по расчёту. At the end of day, I am very  happy. Five years later, I do not doubt that my wife loves me dearly.

yeah...in case of RM the juggling of dates with different women will be spread over a month or a year, or maybe 2-3 years period of time. . sure.. EXACTLY the same case as juggling 5+ women in one day by WM   >:D


ok, ok.. i get it! You did not want to take a risk for love, so you were looking for woman who would take a risk :D thaaat's whyyy you needed an RW - because a russian women "коня на скаку остановит, в горящую избу войдет"  :P
Dear Diary, Misha is a chicken  :-X  a true romantic, who likes risk-loving women  8)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 18, 2011, 06:11:22 PM
Let's see, I once traveled two days by train to a city that I did not know in Russia to meet a woman, and I did not take any risks?!? The one thing that I did not clarify is that showing that you are into somebody is not the same thing as sex. I wanted a woman that I fell in love with who had also fallen in live with me. I wanted it to be mutual!

However, I do not know why I have to explain this to you. Have you never fallen in love?!?

As for Western men meeting five women in one day, that was never me. I limited myself to a maximum of one date per day and I only moved on to date a new woman if things had not worked out with the previous woman I was dating. We don't all fit your stereotypes of Western men...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on July 19, 2011, 03:27:54 PM
Let's see, I once traveled two days by train to a city that I did not know in Russia to meet a woman, and I did not take any risks?!? The one thing that I did not clarify is that showing that you are into somebody is not the same thing as sex. I wanted a woman that I fell in love with who had also fallen in live with me. I wanted it to be mutual!

However, I do not know why I have to explain this to you. Have you never fallen in love?!?

As for Western men meeting five women in one day, that was never me. I limited myself to a maximum of one date per day and I only moved on to date a new woman if things had not worked out with the previous woman I was dating. We don't all fit your stereotypes of Western men...

You are romantic :) I guessed that one right.  ;D
and yes, i did fall in love, once, about 11 years ago. That's why i am married now ;)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Misha on July 19, 2011, 08:05:51 PM
You are romantic :) I guessed that one right.  ;D
and yes, i did fall in love, once, about 11 years ago. That's why i am married now ;)


Yes, you guessed right, I do have a romantic streak  :D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 20, 2011, 01:01:39 AM
Mies and Misha,
Oh they are so cute ! :P :welcome:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 31, 2013, 11:09:24 AM
Today i found this on the social network of my wife, first page :

Милый, любимый, желанный, нежный, ласковый, заботливый, мужественный... Все это один человек... Любимый муж, спасибо за то, что ты у меня есть!

Which Google translates, probably badly :
Darling, darling, welcome, gentle, affectionate, caring, courageous ... All that one person ... Beloved husband, thank you for the fact that I have you!



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on July 31, 2013, 12:07:47 PM
Today i found this on the social network of my wife, first page :

Милый, любимый, желанный, нежный, ласковый, заботливый, мужественный... Все это один человек... Любимый муж, спасибо за то, что ты у меня есть!

Which Google translates, probably badly :
Darling, darling, welcome, gentle, affectionate, caring, courageous ... All that one person ... Beloved husband, thank you for the fact that I have you!

Very nice; but, what did she write about you??   8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 31, 2013, 02:10:48 PM
Very nice; but, what did she write about you??   8) 8) 8)
ML you are a bad boy  ;D .
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on August 01, 2013, 09:21:20 AM
Today i found this on the social network of my wife, first page :

Милый, любимый, желанный, нежный, ласковый, заботливый, мужественный... Все это один человек... Любимый муж, спасибо за то, что ты у меня есть!

Which Google translates, probably badly :
Darling, darling, welcome, gentle, affectionate, caring, courageous ... All that one person ... Beloved husband, thank you for the fact that I have you!

Google did a good translation, my version:
"Darling, beloved, desired, tender/gentle, affectionate/fond, caring, high-spirited/manly... All this is one person. My beloved husband, thank you for that I have you/you are with me."

Congratulations, Patagonie!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on August 01, 2013, 10:13:43 AM
Pat, YOU STUD!!!!  :clapping:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on August 01, 2013, 06:38:58 PM
Pat, YOU STUD!!!!  :clapping:

 :ROFL:
 
He's DA MAN!!!!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: JohnDearGreen on August 01, 2013, 06:50:01 PM
[size=78%]Милый, любимый, желанный, нежный, ласковый, заботливый, мужественный... Все это один человек... Любимый муж, спасибо за то, что ты у меня есть! [/size]
Very nice thoughts, but not very original:
http://www.inpearls.ru/comments/354038 (http://www.inpearls.ru/comments/354038)
http://statusoflove.ru/l5/850-milyy-lyubimyy-zhelannyy-nezhnyy-laskovyy-zabotlivyy-muzhestvennyy-edinstvennyy-vse-eto-odin-chel.html (http://statusoflove.ru/l5/850-milyy-lyubimyy-zhelannyy-nezhnyy-laskovyy-zabotlivyy-muzhestvennyy-edinstvennyy-vse-eto-odin-chel.html)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 02, 2013, 02:02:25 AM
Very nice thoughts, but not very original:
http://www.inpearls.ru/comments/354038 (http://www.inpearls.ru/comments/354038)
http://statusoflove.ru/l5/850-milyy-lyubimyy-zhelannyy-nezhnyy-laskovyy-zabotlivyy-muzhestvennyy-edinstvennyy-vse-eto-odin-chel.html (http://statusoflove.ru/l5/850-milyy-lyubimyy-zhelannyy-nezhnyy-laskovyy-zabotlivyy-muzhestvennyy-edinstvennyy-vse-eto-odin-chel.html)
you are a monument of romantism and tact  :P .
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: JohnDearGreen on August 02, 2013, 06:50:15 PM
you are a monument of romantism and tact  :P .
If you weren't married, there would be a dozen scam-happy guys here telling you she is not real, and the note was written by some fat guy named Boris at an agency somewhere.  I never placed much value on that strategy.  A quick google shows that phrase on about 2 dozen FSU ladies home pages. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: mies on August 06, 2013, 08:01:24 PM
If you weren't married, there would be a dozen scam-happy guys here telling you she is not real, and the note was written by some fat guy named Boris at an agency somewhere.  I never placed much value on that strategy.  A quick google shows that phrase on about 2 dozen FSU ladies home pages.

You would be surprised how many home pages of both males and females around the globe have the status "I love you, babe"
Soooooo unoriginal..  :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 19, 2013, 06:33:42 AM
In less than one week the family will be gathered here in France. My wife and her daughter will be soon.
An other life is going on now.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on August 20, 2013, 07:55:45 PM
An other life is going on now.

Does this mean a baby . . . if you want to tell?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 21, 2013, 12:55:49 AM
Does this mean a baby . . . if you want to tell?
Not exactly.
I wanted to tell that now real things start. I am now finishing to prepare our dwelling.

Daughter starts school soon without almost knowing the language, she never came here. So i will be with her mum to help her on a daily basis because she has good marks at school and i don't want her to stall few times after the start of the new school year.
For my wife it is different, she spent already almost four months here. But she also has to learn the language even if she has a A1/A2 level.
Everybody needs to find his place.

We have also many documents to fill in the future, in a way the immigration process is not finished.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 29, 2013, 01:01:12 AM
I don't know what about you, but for my wife and her daughter the immigration process before getting a long visa duration (one year) had been a pain in the ass.
She needed to make eight round trips from Dnepr to Kiev for visas (7) and french tests (1).
Which means between 10 and 15 hours of transportation not included intermediate time.

I was believing that the one year visa given would let us quiet for .... one year, but in fact you should register and get back the receipt BEFORE three months. If not you are not considered as legal and can have some problems. Price is more than 500 $ (fortunately just for my wife) to get register. There is probably also a medical visit. Additionnaly a tuition in french would probably proposed.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Daveman on August 29, 2013, 06:14:29 AM
A little late to the party here.. warmest wishes for beginning your lives together!  And may the future for your family hold many blessings...


...and may the French Immigration Dept. suffer!!!  :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on August 29, 2013, 08:32:38 AM

...and may the French Immigration Dept. suffer!!!  :P

And no Frech kisses for them!
 
Seriously, I hope it all goes well Patagonie. This process you described seems totally unreasonable.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 29, 2013, 09:00:18 AM
A little late to the party here.. warmest wishes for beginning your lives together!  And may the future for your family hold many blessings...


...and may the French Immigration Dept. suffer!!!  :P
Thank you very much Dave.
We know all that the real common life is the biggest step 2. And especially when a child is involved.
The plus is that my wife spent before almost four months in France.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 29, 2013, 09:02:55 AM

And no Frech kisses for them!
 
Seriously, I hope it all goes well Patagonie. This process you described seems totally unreasonable.
Hi Natural.
The process is a LOT of documents, you cannot imagine how many documents we fill here, and it is not finished. Where are the kingdom of documents.  :wallbash:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 31, 2013, 05:15:53 PM
We were tonight invited in a party. We were around 80 people.
The guy who invited us quickly introduced us to two others "cross-cultural" couples.
Two polish girls, one between 40-42 and the other of 47. We spend the diner with the 48 years old and her boyfriend of 62.
This guy had been previously married to an other polish girl an also spent three years with a russian teacher living in France. So his questions and his talk was friendly open around my couple and cross cultural relationship. For him it was clear that french women, generally speaking, cannot outperfom the eastern ones.
At the end, my wife was sleeping with her daughter in the saloon so i was alone with the 48-62 couple when the second polish girl came.
At her age she is still a 8+ and ten years ago she was probably boxing in the 9 category.
In twenty minutes i rely on my intuition and can understand this. She is a simple woman, had been a manual worker and still make a living in such work (she helps her husband a butcher, to prepare meat). She is natural, she came by curiosity at my table, i could feel it in her eyes but just a respectful curiosity. She met her husband when he came in Poland (official reason : he was chasing here). She was classical in her clothes but you cannot miss that she is a beautiful woman. She is simple, easy  to discuss with. She is a hard worker, who never complains, and when you listen her telling you that she is going soon to hospital for one month you cannot  believe it. She is so smiling and so positive that you feel that this woman really tweedles this type of problem, not because she is a fool but because she is jovial. She is not educated, and probably not smart. She is feminine and you can guess she works like a butcher, and on an other hand, she is very natural and simple, she has no complex to tell you this type of things. Because she has any ego about this, she drinks her life like it comes.
Just before leaving, in the last seconds the 62 years old guy told me, speaking about this woman : look she is beautiful, she has nice legs and beasts, she is simple and natural, and don't lie about what she is. If she were french, with such beauty,  it would be not possible to approach her less than 10 meters.

Yes our western women, are generally, ego over ballooned. It kills, not the initial attraction, but  all when the man approaches them. 

The guy of 62 was quite interesting, he has approched the eastern culture a lot and got a lot of experience. He was chasing specifically on  free sites when he hitted the 48 polish culture who was already living in France.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 12, 2013, 12:31:04 AM
Daughter here is doing nice integration at school.
Fortunately two classmates speak russian.

We have gone almost the firs ten days to the swimming pool.
At 9 she has a frank success, everybody  want to play with her.
And little boys in the swimming pool try to do a maximum of noise or try to come closer to get attention from her.
Very funny.

Perhaps their perception of their price on the market starts really earlier than i think ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 16, 2013, 01:53:46 AM
We have a lot of fun in my family.
And daughter starts to like me. This is very important. It would be really a pain in my heart if not.

We play the touch my ass and and i will run after you till i touch your so you have to run on me.
So we make a lot of sport in fact  :ROFL:
Perhaps daughter will be a sprinter soon.  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on September 16, 2013, 08:47:38 PM
We have a lot of fun in my family.
And daughter starts to like me. This is very important. It would be really a pain in my heart if not.

We play the touch my ass and and i will run after you till i touch your so you have to run on me.
So we make a lot of sport in fact  :ROFL:
Perhaps daughter will be a sprinter soon.  ;D

This would get you arrested in USA.

I would even advise be careful in any country.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Wayne on September 17, 2013, 09:48:32 AM
What about football players slapping each other on the ass?
 
When I was a kid, we played various "tag" games. I remember something like "poison tag"
 
We also played a tag game when you hit the other player with a ball. If you connected, that person was "it".
 
Then there are various forms of "flag" football.
 
It seems like kids these days don't play outside much anymore.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 17, 2013, 01:08:33 PM
This would get you arrested in USA.

I would even advise be careful in any country.
for an european your post is very surprising.
None of us will never think about this.
It is very interesting to see, even if you joke, how things are perveted in guilt.
How everthing a US man  do  can be interpreted and  rotten.

Really there is a  big difference of culture,  you need to hide yourself in USA because you have a pair of balls.
A guy here in the forum was telling us how he finished almost fired in the HR office after he told a compliement to is chief about her regime.

I really don't want to live in such world.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on September 18, 2013, 02:45:18 PM
Pat, on the idea of 'no touching asses of children' . . . this idea will be coming soon to your country.

Don't believe it ?

Did you believe 'no smoking' laws would be enacted in your country ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 19, 2013, 12:55:13 AM
Pat, on the idea of 'no touching asses of children' . . . this idea will be coming soon to your country.

Don't believe it ?

Did you believe 'no smoking' laws would be enacted in your country ?
Hi ML.

I know or i guess unfortunately that we are on the US route.
Non smoking areas had been enacted for helth obvious reasons.
But i think that this sexual repression is only screwing up relationships between genders and make people unhappy, putting a huge dome of guilt on men's shoulders.

The old inquisition court is resurgent, you will be not sent to the flames but to the court, all your reputation will be destroyed, your money and a part of your freedom.
Rape and incedent assault on childre here are between 50% and 70% of time a liar. But women are very rarely prosecuted and they never go to jail.

How is it possible to cut his ball early in the morning before opening the door of your office, and pick it up back at the end of the afertoon ?
US fellows, how do feel ? How do you manage this type of life ?


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on September 19, 2013, 10:02:59 AM
for an european your post is very surprising.
None of us will never think about this.
It is very interesting to see, even if you joke, how things are perveted in guilt.
How everthing a US man  do  can be interpreted and  rotten.

Really there is a  big difference of culture,  you need to hide yourself in USA because you have a pair of balls.
A guy here in the forum was telling us how he finished almost fired in the HR office after he told a compliement to is chief about her regime.

I really don't want to live in such world.

Actually Pat, the puritans are still in charge of this country.

More puritanism, then more sexual repression, then more sexual perverts.

It is very simple.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 19, 2013, 12:20:17 PM
Actually Pat, the puritans are still in charge of this country.

More puritanism, then more sexual repression, then more sexual perverts.

It is very simple.
nice post Muzh
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on September 20, 2013, 11:45:14 AM


 
We have a lot of fun in my family.
And daughter starts to like me. This is very important. It would be really a pain in my heart if not.

We play the touch my ass and and i will run after you till i touch your so you have to run on me.
So we make a lot of sport in fact  (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/3D_ROFL.gif)
Perhaps daughter will be a sprinter soon.  (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/grin.gif)
 

This would get you arrested in USA.

I would even advise be careful in any country.

Unfortunately I don't even think ML is being anything but serious about this.
Seems to me the politically correctedness way of life where one cannot distinguish between different types of behaviours have made it's way down to Joe Average in a big way, and as always, USA shows the way forward. I didn't get what Patagonie said as anything but innocent play, but unfortunately there are sick people out there with power that does. It's about time sane and normal people everywhere say stop to this insanity and not give in to this and stop interacting with our children in a normal and healthy manner.
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on September 20, 2013, 12:55:59 PM
There are many babysitters in USA who tell the parents that they will not change the diapers of children in their care . . . because of the possible charges of molestation.

- - - - -

And there is an entire industry of psyco/socio workers who are trained to recover the lost memory that persons have of childhood sexual abuse.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 23, 2013, 03:00:58 AM
Hi Natural
Hi ML

I think that USA and nordic countries are a way forward about what i personaly call the sexual repression correlated with the right to prosecuting for almost any reason.

I really can understand the concern for parents having a yound children and his personal security when you know how many freaks you have in the surroudings.
These freaks have childrens also.

But in the intimate sphere you cannot push too much the suspicion. It destroys all.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Faux Pas on September 23, 2013, 09:14:47 AM
Just the accusation of molestation even if untrue or innocent, can turn a man's life upside down. I've seen it happen, not to me thankfully. But it makes you wonder how many innocent people are being convicted. The accusations can be flung from from any direction and when that happens, it's guilty until proven innocent. By that time, a person has likely lost all measure of support, job, family or friends and left with a stigma that remains. One would be much better served to avoid any contact that could be construed as predatory, even the most innocent.

The children have to be protected from predators. No if, an's or buts. The area is wide and gray about what is innocent playful touching and what is not. The recovery of repressed memory (sic) is generally a crock of BS and has led to a lot of hysteria in this area. FWIW
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Slumba on September 23, 2013, 10:59:06 AM
Actually Pat, the puritans are still in charge of this country.

More puritanism, then more sexual repression, then more sexual perverts.

It is very simple.

Puritans, really?  You believe that?  :wallbash:  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 23, 2013, 02:45:15 PM
Just the accusation of molestation even if untrue or innocent, can turn a man's life upside down. I've seen it happen, not to me thankfully. But it makes you wonder how many innocent people are being convicted. The accusations can be flung from from any direction and when that happens, it's guilty until proven innocent. By that time, a person has likely lost all measure of support, job, family or friends and left with a stigma that remains. One would be much better served to avoid any contact that could be construed as predatory, even the most innocent.

The children have to be protected from predators. No if, an's or buts. The area is wide and gray about what is innocent playful touching and what is not. The recovery of repressed memory (sic) is generally a crock of BS and has led to a lot of hysteria in this area. FWIW
You are perfectly right
between 50 and 70% of accusations are without fundement.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 01, 2013, 12:58:15 AM
Things are now easier after five weeks.
Daughter is making progress when reading the language, and she starts to understand some basic french.
My wife is now owning the home. Some would say that i have "slaved" her in domestic work, but the truth is that she don't work so her daily rythmin has to find some things to do. So she comes along with daughter to school four days per week and she cooks. She also starts to do more cleaning.
As men i do little job and all repair for the home and the family, and i work and take care of business.

Everyone made his quarrel or sulked, this week it was daughter. I am aware of this. Any guys should be aware that he will have to manage this type of behavior (and you will let sweat some irritation).
I met an ukrainian girl of 35 married to a a fellow countryman and she told me that she was hysteric the first year.

The fact is also that often guys are older and use to live alone. Generally ukranian ladies used to live in communauty (with mother, children), so the "gap", added to all cultural differences is more difficult to fulfill.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 04, 2013, 03:10:44 PM
We went not long time ago to a multilanguage meeting.

A georgian guy, fluent in russian, was there.
I let my wife talked to him and went out in the street few moment. And when i returned, there was a young guy sitted in front of her.
After three seconds i understood that something was wrong with him.
He started to very smile at me. And when in the same time i touched and hughed my wife i saw his face turning sad.
Few seconds after he stood up and left.
He was gay.
Georgian guy noticed also and told to my wife.

It is funny because France authorizes now the marriage between gay.
My wife explained me that this is the first time she saw one.
Perhaps we should have shot some photos to have some memory ?  :D

In Ukraine they hide themselves, and my wife joining the mouvement to the speaking showed me what
happens to them in her country : the best i have found to help you to understand is this one :  :deadhorse:

Just to help you to understand some cultural difference.


I told to my wife that is an offence here to tell some words not in the proper manner.

Is it the oppression, or is there really less gays in Ukraine (and lesbians) ?

What do you think ?
Title: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 06, 2013, 11:59:11 AM
My wife, since we know each other, is regulary hitted by men here in France, sometimes she told me about.

Today she was on her social site and i was not so far, she got a message, even two today, and i was very close when he posted the second. She told me look this guy, he tries to talk to me since the beginning of the year.
She showed me and translated  messages for me. The guy was obsiouly in my city and be able to speak russian.

What was not understable is why he has sent messages. Photos on site shows clearly thtat she is freshly married, changed of name, and before it was understable that she was having a boyfriend : me.

I told to my wife : lets have some fun.

I sat in front of the keyboard and typed : "call me on XX XX XX XX XX,  :-* "
I just finished to press enter that my phone was ringing.
It was him.
I introduced myself as the husband of "first name of my wife".
The guy looked like stupid.
I told him that it is better to chase singles rather than married ones.
I didn't speak too long, this guy was non only stupid because of the situation but you can feel that he was having nothing in his game.


 I am always, more i know about how men act in real life with women (and remember that i was like many of them only six years ago), astonished by their behavior.

Two hours after i tought about him and realized the five points he needs to know (among many), just question of common sense :

1/ There are many single women, if you are want to chase focus on them, you will have better results and really less problems.
2/ When you choice a pseudo avoid all this type of "machoNAME OF MY CITY), with aw it is ok to crash, hoping that you don't just want to fuck the whores of the city.
3/ When you send a sms (maximum two) or a message to a lady, if she don't answer, the most appropriate action to do is : NEXT
4/ When you are just typing a sunday at two in the afternoon on your computer stupids messages, it just means that you are a loser, because a guy who has a real life is busy till the end of the week end (try to call them after 19h but never during the week end).
5/ If a girl give you her phone saying call me, do it in the second can  show that you are just needy.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Slumba on October 06, 2013, 10:13:23 PM
Patagonie, your last post is very funny!

You engaged in "mate guarding" which shows respect to your wife, and that you are not afraid of competition.  So you demonstrated high value also.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 07, 2013, 12:44:11 AM
What trapped definitively the guy was the emoticon (a kiss) following the call me to "my number".  :P

Reaction of my wife : just one an other funny thing that her husband succeeded. And some fun to tell to her relatives.
And of course, you are right, better value.
The funniest was how fast this guy call me : maximum three seconds after the end of my messgage.  :ROFL:

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Slumba on October 07, 2013, 01:21:28 AM
What trapped definitively the guy was the emoticon (a kiss) following the call me to "my number".  :P

Reaction of my wife : just one an other funny thing that her husband succeeded. And some fun to tell to her relatives.
And of course, you are right, better value.
The funniest was how fast this guy call me : maximum three seconds after the end of my messgage.  :ROFL:

I did not chase married women, but, I recognize some of this behavior in my past.  :cluebat:

NO MORE!  :clapping:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on October 07, 2013, 09:14:31 AM
My wife, since we know each other, is regulary hitted by men here in France, sometimes she told me about.

Perhaps now you can understand why so many WW are, as so many men here state, "bitches".  Continuous pick up attempts become tiresome.  That doesn't happen in Ukraine. 

In any event, it is nice to read things are going well for you.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Slumba on October 07, 2013, 10:25:07 AM
Perhaps now you can understand why so many WW are, as so many men here state, "bitches".  Continuous pick up attempts become tiresome.  That doesn't happen in Ukraine. 


Your view is, that WW are hit on much more than FSUW? 

I would certainly welcome the views of an actual FSUW who grew up in the FSU as to that viewpoint.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on October 07, 2013, 10:30:15 AM
Hit on much more in the West than FSUW in the FSU.  Definitely.  I posted before that WW (at least in North America, I can't speak for Europe) cannot dress the way FSUW do in the FSU, because they would be harassed continuously.   The attitude toward women is different in the FSU, particularly if a woman is married.


There are other differences, though.  Groping on public transport is pretty common in cities, at least in Ukraine.  However, grope the wrong woman, and a man could very well end up being beaten when he exits the bus/metro.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 12, 2013, 07:56:09 AM
Very nice topic.
But are you sure that FSU ladies are less hitted than AW ?
The link is about a nice 8 getting hitted in FSU, in hidden camera.

Here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoFCCQnp9hc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoFCCQnp9hc)


Those girls don't seem to share your opinion Boethius. However .... next time i will tell you.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on October 13, 2013, 01:31:21 PM
Your "lady" went to the Kursk Vokzal, which has always been known as a place to find prostitutes, and to the park, also, when alone, a place to find a short term partner, and then complains about men approaching her.  What was not noted in the translation was while in the park, when she said she had a boyfriend, the man who approached her asked "So what are you doing here?"

Ask any normal FSUW if she would go to Kursk Vokzal, or the Kyiv Bus station, to eat lunch.

It is akin to going to a dance club, and being offended when you are asked to dance.  Had she been walking on Arbat and faced the same, I would agree with you.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on October 14, 2013, 06:17:07 PM

I told him that it is better to chase singles rather than married ones.


 
Some men prefer married women. They don't want commitment in a relationship, just a woman part time for a fling and excitement. Married women can give that to those guys better than single women since they are less likely to seek commitment and their feelings are less likely to be hurt.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 31, 2013, 09:15:52 AM
Hit on much more in the West than FSUW in the FSU.  Definitely.  I posted before that WW (at least in North America, I can't speak for Europe) cannot dress the way FSUW do in the FSU, because they would be harassed continuously.   The attitude toward women is different in the FSU, particularly if a woman is married.


There are other differences, though.  Groping on public transport is pretty common in cities, at least in Ukraine.  However, grope the wrong woman, and a man could very well end up being beaten when he exits the bus/metro.

Last time i was saying, despite the video link i posted, that i would tell you more....

In fact I personnaly think that Boethius is correct about her analysis, and this it also true in Europe also.
My wife agrees about this also.
However, in gaming approach, i see no really difference between western men and eastern men (WHEN they approach), generally it is a direct hitting endeavor totally under women radar.

What is interesting here, would be to welcome more women opinion who have lived both in the west and in the east, even if i know that they are not a lot.

It is true that my wife is noticing that she is frequently tooted by cars when she walks, especially alone. Some guys even stop.
Yesterday she was waiting me in front of our compounds, on the sidewalk, me coming to pickup her by car.
She was wearing a jeans, a black leather jacket and high black leather boots. During few minutes cars honked and some even stopped  :P .

I personaly begin to think that the sexual repression in our western societies is in progress. This is my explanation, in the east genders are not frustated (really less) to live their sexuality and love affairs.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 31, 2013, 05:35:59 PM
Yesterday she was waiting me in front of our compounds, on the sidewalk, me coming to pickup her by car. She was wearing a jeans, a black leather jacket and high black leather boots. During few minutes cars honked and some even stopped  :P .I personaly begin to think that the sexual repression in our western societies is in progress.
Pat, maybe that's not due to sexual repression but to the fact that a sidewalk stander/sidewalker in that type of attire is usually perceived - in France and elsewhere - to be engaged in the world's oldest profession ;D.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 02, 2013, 05:16:36 AM
It is where it becomes interesting Sandro, why do you think that she can be "oldest job in the world ?".
Why all this guys in France can think such a thing, knowing that where i live it is not the place where they work at all ?

And so why in the same conditions Ukrainians men will not notice her ?

Precision given by my wife : ukrainians guys would be likely to honk her if she would have  been in mini skirt or in short, which was not. And she also don't wear  a lot of make up.

SO  :popcorn:

Is the beauty so rare in France ?
Is the feminity so rare in France ?

will tell you more about our last experience of yesterday.

But post here more about what you think about human psychology when people  are confronted to  somebody  who breaks the ordinary couple's codes.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 02, 2013, 08:11:01 AM
Pat, the western woman is aware of the reaction she will get from men according to her dress, mannerisms etc.

So a WW who was dressed and had the mannerisms of your wife (and, of course, I am only guessing at the total package here) would be careful as to where she stood, which direction she was looking, etc. 

Her actions would all be designed to not draw unwanted attention to herself until she were safe in the car with the man whom she did want to appreciate her looks.

Because many women in FSU do dress provocatively, and actually look like hookers, the FSU men grow immune to their looks.

I have noted before that this accounts for the widely held, but erroneous idea, that FSU women are much more attractive than WW.  i.e. Prostitutes have known for thousands of years how to dress to draw the attention of men.  The WM who go to FSU are attracted to the non-prostitute women simply because they look like prostitutes.

In Ukraine, Ochka could dress provocatively and travel the buses, metro and walk to a destination without so much as a glance from the men.  She knows that would not be the case here in USA, so she will only 'dress to kill for' when she feels safe with me by her side.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 13, 2014, 10:05:51 AM
I cannot wait to show you this relooking :
The father and the son. Really what do you think about the father after ?
Would you like to go in FSU like he was in the left picture ? Really ?
It makes a LOT of difference for a woman between the two.


(http://www.spikeseduction.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/relooking-homme-spikeseduction-matthieuchristian-avant-apres.jpg)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 21, 2014, 09:02:40 AM
The best post of the month :

VWRW :
It has been awhile as a few individuals like that have been very active on RWD, defiling every place of this site. That is the main reason why I almost do not read this forum anymore. 50% of new posts are rubbish thrown by those individuals, 40% are a rebuke of the rubbish by those patient people who still believe that the jerks can be healed. And the rest 10% of helpful information is lost in this rubbish as a needle in a big pile of ....
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 31, 2014, 01:59:24 AM
Pat, the western woman is aware of the reaction she will get from men according to her dress, mannerisms etc.

So a WW who was dressed and had the mannerisms of your wife (and, of course, I am only guessing at the total package here) would be careful as to where she stood, which direction she was looking, etc. 

Her actions would all be designed to not draw unwanted attention to herself until she were safe in the car with the man whom she did want to appreciate her looks.

Because many women in FSU do dress provocatively, and actually look like hookers, the FSU men grow immune to their looks.

I have noted before that this accounts for the widely held, but erroneous idea, that FSU women are much more attractive than WW.  i.e. Prostitutes have known for thousands of years how to dress to draw the attention of men.  The WM who go to FSU are attracted to the non-prostitute women simply because they look like prostitutes.

In Ukraine, Ochka could dress provocatively and travel the buses, metro and walk to a destination without so much as a glance from the men.  She knows that would not be the case here in USA, so she will only 'dress to kill for' when she feels safe with me by her side.

i largely agree.
"Because many women in FSU do dress provocatively, and actually look like hookers, the FSU men grow immune to their looks."
But when you say ML provocatively i think that you go too far. It is true that some do it.
But i see my wife and her daughter preparing themselves : it is all an education inherited from woman to woman.

FSU women are dressed provocatively, from a western eye, yes.
But in their mind they are just dressed normally, i mean in a feminine way.

It is very likely now that your girl has adjusted her level "of feminity" in accordance to the country where you live because she is now here for a while. She has lowered it but i don't think that this word came in her mind : provocative (it doesn't that they don't know how to do it if they really want  :P )
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on January 31, 2014, 07:01:28 AM
Yeah, and beside that, Pat,

Living in your country, well?  Who ever said that the French could dress provocatively?

(http://blog.catherinemalandrino.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/mal_p_fw11_060.jpg)

(http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2008/03/11/1111120/034336-sexiest-french-women.jpg)

(http://www.talkinfrench.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/sultry-Eva-Green.jpg)

Not me!  Nope!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on January 31, 2014, 07:04:43 AM
My wife, since we know each other, is regulary hitted by men here in France, sometimes she told me about.

Today she was on her social site and i was not so far, she got a message, even two today, and i was very close when he posted the second. She told me look this guy, he tries to talk to me since the beginning of the year.
She showed me and translated  messages for me. The guy was obsiouly in my city and be able to speak russian.

What was not understable is why he has sent messages. Photos on site shows clearly thtat she is freshly married, changed of name, and before it was understable that she was having a boyfriend : me.

I told to my wife : lets have some fun.

I sat in front of the keyboard and typed : "call me on XX XX XX XX XX,  :-* "
I just finished to press enter that my phone was ringing.
It was him.
I introduced myself as the husband of "first name of my wife".
The guy looked like stupid.
I told him that it is better to chase singles rather than married ones.
I didn't speak too long, this guy was non only stupid because of the situation but you can feel that he was having nothing in his game.


 I am always, more i know about how men act in real life with women (and remember that i was like many of them only six years ago), astonished by their behavior.

Two hours after i tought about him and realized the five points he needs to know (among many), just question of common sense :

1/ There are many single women, if you are want to chase focus on them, you will have better results and really less problems.
2/ When you choice a pseudo avoid all this type of "machoNAME OF MY CITY), with aw it is ok to crash, hoping that you don't just want to fuck the whores of the city.
3/ When you send a sms (maximum two) or a message to a lady, if she don't answer, the most appropriate action to do is : NEXT
4/ When you are just typing a sunday at two in the afternoon on your computer stupids messages, it just means that you are a loser, because a guy who has a real life is busy till the end of the week end (try to call them after 19h but never during the week end).
5/ If a girl give you her phone saying call me, do it in the second can  show that you are just needy.

Aw, Pat,

You should have put on a wig, dressed up in heels and met the schmuck!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 31, 2014, 10:27:51 AM
Your post reminds me ... not too far ... the day before the day before.

My wife told me that she got ... an other post.
She told me look...
I sat and told her ok, we will play a little.

The guy was probably from armenia and don't write a good french.

Aside saying you are very beautiful he could'nt write anything (not because he didn't have enough vocabulary but because his IQ was just enough to know how to get some tepid water). After few posts i let him know "have you realized that you are just chatting with the husband ?"

To tell you the level of the asshole he started to provocate me  and after few exchanges i stopped and told to my wife to banner him from her site.

She was with me all time and cannot believe it.

His photo ? with a BMW  :rolleyes:


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 31, 2014, 10:31:16 AM
Jone

There is a fantasm between Paris fashion capital, muse of the luxury industries and the ... daily life.

The woman with the hat ? I never never meet such woman.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on January 31, 2014, 10:52:50 AM
Jone

There is a fantasm between Paris fashion capital, muse of the luxury industries and the ... daily life.

The woman with the hat ? I never never meet such woman.

Yeah, I understand.  I just put those pictures up so Muzh could see real style.  His tastes run to Katy Perry.

(http://wallalay.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Katy-Perry-14.jpg)

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 03, 2014, 03:23:07 AM
I hope that when she wokes up she has always a banana on her bedside table,
because one day she can confuse with the guy besides .... 
 :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 04, 2014, 02:37:22 AM
I am married now for more than 8 months and my wife lives now permanently since more than five months here.

I have noticed that things were harsh between month 2 and month 4. Many people around me told me that the first year is especially difficult. And that is true.
Now my wife is busy since one month with immigration french school. She has around 20 hours per week of courses with people coming from differents countries.
She already attended courses but she was not comfortable  with the teacher.
Fortunately the story is quite different now. She loves to go to school and she is seated beside a russian woman who has a lot of humor. So globally my wife and her are the ones who are livening up the classroom.

I worried about the last months because during four months she barely didn't invest time learning french.
I think that is a big concern, not only about an integration in a new society, but also for the family, the couple, if a FSU woman don't master the language. And it puts a lot of problem in the daily life also, because you spend your time as assistant any time, anywhere.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 21, 2014, 02:38:01 AM
We have gone recently to a mariage in Paris.
My wife prepared this appointment at her own way.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: JayH on August 21, 2014, 02:58:14 AM
Pat-- we are always interested in updates!! :)

Do you mean your own marriage is in preparation? Or someone elses? What are you saying here?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on August 21, 2014, 03:25:34 AM
We have gone recently to a mariage in Paris.
My wife prepared this appointment at her own way.

That is so cute!  :clapping:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on August 21, 2014, 03:27:40 AM
Pat-- we are always interested in updates!! :)

Do you mean your own marriage is in preparation? Or someone elses? What are you saying here?

C'mon, Jay, get with the programme!  :cluebat:

I am married now for more than 8 months and my wife lives now permanently since more than five months here.

He's now past his first anniversary!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 21, 2014, 05:14:20 AM
No, it was not our marriage.
Cause our happened more than one year ago now.
But they are (with her daughter) there for more than one year.

The difference in culture sucks, it adds some difficulties to any normal bumps met in a couple life.

There are some photos of us in rua in the 51 area (you need to have few hundreds posts on your own to access).
On request i can send some by pm (there are some people i really like here).

I can confirm to newbies that this journey is not for poor people, not at all.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: JayH on August 21, 2014, 05:35:45 AM
C'mon, Jay, get with the programme!  :cluebat:

He's now past his first anniversary!


AK--  I thought that and could not get what he was saying !

My scorecard was being manually operated!!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 06, 2014, 02:30:52 AM
I am realizing now how far i am after all these years.
All is fine, the relationship is quieter due to a better adaptation for my wife in France. Also we know each other better in the daily couple life so we less need to confront our personnalities.
The learning process for her daughter was a concern for me the first year. But the fact is that now she has really improved her skills in french and henceforth i feel confident for her tuition.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 06, 2014, 02:40:34 AM
I realize that this forum has gone far from his purpose, after many months of incertainty due to the conflict. I mean that often politics were put on the table rather than human relationships.

It is a real pain for me to this beautiful country divided and devastated. More there will be some close regions which are now out of trip, even if it will be only for a touristic purpose. Especially Crimea, which i had always the wish to visit. And now it has gone.

I am so sorry for all ukrainians. And no solution is incoming due to the presence of this agressive russian president. The only satisfaction i have is to see  how much it will cost him, especially with a so low barrel price.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 06, 2014, 03:09:19 AM
Newbies :
If i compare where i were seven years ago and today, the ditch is so large that it would have been impossible for me to figure out (and neither my relatives).

You have heard me speaking of game, you have heard me speaking of self improvement, you have heard me speaking about red pill opposite to the blue pill, it is all of these things and a formidable appetite of discovering, meeting people, flirting with beauty and beauties who had allowed my life to be what it is now.

NO CHANCE, NO LUCK there. A lot of work.

Some have some chance and shorten the time to find their mate, and some have no real chance but shorten it by giving more time to the venture.
I am however more confident with the seconds on the long term of their relathionship (in average) rather than with the ones who (the one week wonder) have had the "luck" to seal the deal in few days or few weeks of searching.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 06, 2014, 09:43:33 AM
Pat, you are becoming quite the Philosopher !

Good to hear your relationship is progressing nicely.

Best to you and spouse.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Wayne on November 06, 2014, 10:58:28 AM
Pat, you and your wife can still go to Crimea, you just need a Russian visa and to fly from Moscow. I was there for 30 days this summer. We went to a lot of places and did not have any trouble.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BorisS on November 06, 2014, 11:18:00 AM
Great thread...Congrats!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 06, 2014, 11:52:59 AM
Pat, you and your wife can still go to Crimea, you just need a Russian visa and to fly from Moscow. I was there for 30 days this summer. We went to a lot of places and did not have any trouble.

You  must differentiate between CAN go and WANT to go.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 06, 2014, 02:25:09 PM
Pat, you are becoming quite the Philosopher !

Good to hear your relationship is progressing nicely.

Best to you and spouse.
I am happy  that you have returned from the east safe and with good records of your time spent there. Nice to read you ML. Would like to meet you if we travel in the future in USA.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 06, 2014, 02:28:51 PM
Pat, you and your wife can still go to Crimea, you just need a Russian visa and to fly from Moscow. I was there for 30 days this summer. We went to a lot of places and did not have any trouble.
You are both right, it can be done but it is so disgusting to go through Moscow and get a visa to simply go in a region which was belonging few months ago to Ukraine. It is so unbelievable. It is like a fence in my mind fellows.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 06, 2014, 02:30:55 PM
Great thread...Congrats!
Thank you.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 09, 2014, 02:02:57 PM
The red pill and blue pill refer to the "Matrix" movie when the hero can choose between both. One, the blue one, will leave him in a peaceful and warm environment and the other one will send him in a the real world, without any tainted glass.

The red pill therefore is a communauty of people who have started to notice that the usual speech in our western societies about the disbalance in egality is not automatically in disfavor of women. 

The whole effect of beliefs, families expectations, rest of religion, chivalry in the education push men in the "matrix" and format them to endorse an outfit and a way to be, to think and to act which is predominantly or totally against his own interest(s).

The red pill kicked my ass seven years ago and has rocketed me to a major improvment in my life. To a 99 % benefit.
You would have never been read anything of me here, without the red pill. I would not even been able to write in english.

If you consider life, women are at least the 1/3 of all treasures, you can even think about the half.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 09, 2014, 02:35:00 PM
I realize that this forum has gone far from his purpose, after many months of incertainty due to the conflict. I mean that often politics were put on the table rather than human relationships.

It is a real pain for me to this beautiful country divided and devastated. More there will be some close regions which are now out of trip, even if it will be only for a touristic purpose. Especially Crimea, which i had always the wish to visit. And now it has gone.

I am so sorry for all ukrainians. And no solution is incoming due to the presence of this agressive russian president. The only satisfaction i have is to see  how much it will cost him, especially with a so low barrel price.

We all hope it will cost him the Presidency and possibly his life, as the Oligarchs who have lost hundreds of millions because of his hubris are probably scheming a regime-change as we speak.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: southernX on November 09, 2014, 03:34:28 PM
pat , great thread,

congratulations on your good life, & i know it all comes with good hard work ,

teh young ones when they move  countrys take it on pretty quickly there change is amazing to see over 2-3 years ime

best to you and your family pat  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:


SX
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 10, 2014, 07:28:42 AM
We all hope it will cost him the Presidency and possibly his life, as the Oligarchs who have lost hundreds of millions because of his hubris are probably scheming a regime-change as we speak.
i hope it will work, but what about the next revolution ? Nobody knows
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 10, 2014, 07:29:36 AM
pat , great thread,

congratulations on your good life, & i know it all comes with good hard work ,

teh young ones when they move  countrys take it on pretty quickly there change is amazing to see over 2-3 years ime

best to you and your family pat  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Thank you very much for your supportive post.


SX
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 10, 2014, 08:18:55 AM
But the beginning of the "revolution" started before the red pill. I cannot say if it helped the other but it played probably a role.

I was single and one evening i was with a nice looking woman (a friend) dining in a little italian restaurant. Two tables away a beautiful young tall blonde was dining with a brunette friend. Don't ask me how it happened because i have absolutely no clue but finally we exchanged our number (all both) and i met them again, especially the blonde one.
Note : the rule good looking girls attracts good other looking girls is here checked.
Note : the guy (me) was having absolutely no clue about what he did and is not capable to tell you any signs of interest

She was on the international chart a solid 8. Her sister was older but even  more beautiful, close to 9 or a 9. One day we met and the little group went to a jazz club, with a little dance floor. The two sisters and i started to dance and 10 minutes after we were litteraly compressed by a crownd of men who wanted their piece of cake. Funny experience where i was the passive lurker of the beauty of the beauties, somewhere believing that if i were trying my luck this spectacle would fade away.

One day i was with the little sister, and little carried away by being with this beautiful young women i tried to push a pawn on the chessboard. Indeed till this moment i was the nice and chivalrous guy always neat, always (try to be nice) and not showing any interest (i was interested of course). When i saw her face about my endeavor (like if i were asking her to lend me 10000$) i quickly come back to my outfit of good friend.
Note : i have never left my outfit of good friend in fact, perhaps i made illusion during the first diner, but after i blew up all my chances, if i had one which was not certain. I land in fact very quickly in the friendly zone. A zone with no intimacy and no sex, a swamp from where you are very rarely able to come back.

At this moment i started to notice, or perhaps it was only supposition of my own, that she  lived with an older guy before we met and for what i understood among the little informations i got, she was living not in poverty althought she was an average woman by her job. Something was telling me that my appartment couldn't compete with the one that the guy owned or rented. It let me an unpleasant feeling to consider this aspect of thing, which i have never paid attention before. I suddenly remembered all remarks made by my female friends in the previous decade. It was clear suddenly how the place where a man is living are or seems important for them.

After this story with the blonde (not really a story because absolutely nothing happended) i restarted the episode 2/3 with my GF. As we were abonent in our story to a 6 months together/6 months split episode 2 i also memorize that she didn't love my flat, till it was totally renovated, which happened at the end of our second episode.

I started to seriously consider that if i wanted to have one day a serious relationship i had to built a nest which can welcome at least three people and perhaps more.

The second thing to open my window was to consider to have more money, which was linked with the previous point.

Some bubbles were starting to boilt in my brain...

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 10, 2014, 08:32:43 AM
Spartacus was a slave, a lot of his fellows also, but nobody told them they were slaves .... And what was a slave.

Don't believe fellows, that i am just an arrogant prick who came here to give you a lesson, in fact i have been a a very long time in the mud.

The crownd is named beta for the blue pill people and  named AFC in the seduction communities. Don't take care about the name in itself it is just used to separate two populations.


It doesn't mean that my life was uninteresting or that i didn't have GF's, but in this area i was just like a pawn not knowing in which direction i could go. I was lost DOT
By any consideration i could have had a child by accident and start to live together, and get married... Which would have been a disaster of course. It didn't happen by chance, that was my luck. I can thank this good fortune and also women i met who never trapped me intentionnaly or by accident.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2014, 09:20:47 AM
You know what happens about beautiful women, the ones who impress you. You therefore give her the status of a very imporant and uttainable  person. It makes you feel nervous or without any expression of the best of your personnality, humour, or intelligence (often all of them  :P ). You give her (them) a world of possibilities which you compare to yours, i mean about in dating perspective. You believe that they can interact with almost any men, and you modestly and reastically judge yourself as being, probably not in the least 50% (depending of your sefl esteem an your value) but not in the top guys, because they are, of course, many top guys in the world. And you give her this proxy easily, to access to a full bunch of possibilites. You put her on a pedestral. As a man you start to desire her and to plan yourself in a virtual relationship with her, by any type of.
you are therefore afraid or any wrong doing or any wrong saying just to keep the LINK. You consider blissfully, how lucky you are to be in contact with a beautiful woman.

Man are the desire and can surf a very long time on this wave, women are in the pleasure and keep a feet in it.

Who in your opinion, is the most prone to live in the reality ?

In fact who is acting like a beta, at this stage of the relationship ?

You know what i mean, the girl who call her friend Susan and she asks : what about Peter ? What about him ? Do you like him ? And she answers something like, oh he is a smart guy, very kind , thoughful. Susan : and what ? I don't think it will work, not my type. Susan : but he is good looking, isn't it ? She : yes not so bad, but i don't have the vibe.

How can she have the vibe with a man who is afraid of himself, in whom you can see at first sight the lack of confidence, the impossibility he has to wear his two balls, which he tries to hide any time, the ceaseless efforts he does to please you anytime and anywhere, the absolute polished manners and spoken language he is expressing.

That is what is happening today to a lot of women who are meeting men, and they detect it in few seconds, in the first minutes maximum, because men  wear it through how they stand, how they move, how they push their voice (event if women don't precisely understand what they say), how they throw their hands, how they are dressed. That's it. For the most beautiful they have the choice to not stop on such type of men, and it is generally what they do, provided that the market is still in their favor.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 12, 2014, 02:50:49 AM
FInally i found a solution to my material problem. During three weeks i slept bad because what i was doing was against the flow (but nothing illegal), people are formated to do things in accordance with how people have been raised, with how bankers and advertising are advising or telling you, but there are others ways. When it was clear that it would be the solution which would give me an a bigger appartment AND more cash available every month, it was only a matter of time to realize this. So i started to plan my future life. Oh it was just a halo, nothing more, i was not having an accurate idea or a structured schedule. Just i knew what i could also do with the money.
Seven months went by and by a real hazard my road crossed my ex and guess what i restarted episode 3/3 with my ex, dropping few time after my actual GF.
In the same time i moved into a nice appartment, bought a fancy car, a sportive motorbike and renew all furniture.

Have you ever noticed that a lot of guys after a divorce, not so long after  (when they can) buy a nice car ? It probably gives them an ego boost, which needed probably some help for understandable reasons).

Relationship in episode 3/3 was following the same path of the previous ones : month after month she was confused more and more. Things was not blowing away like an explosion, but more by lack of passion, on her side. She couldn't keep the speed of a normal relationship. This time, i suffered no big pain, i saw it coming day by day, i did my best to give every day but without sacrificing myself.
I let it go peacefully.

But guess what after the break, few weeks after she wanted a fourth episode. She cried one hour on the phone. I said niet. Didn't want to waste my time again, tired to be with a psychological versatile woman. She strongly loved me, in her manner, but for her i was not the one (the one with whom you live, the type of you get married with (even if she was not interested in marriage and had never been)), something like this, could'nt be able to explain it clearly to me.

She also confessed, to tell me how i was important, that she got 50 guys during the time we were not together.
It was not to make me jealous, there were no stakes at this moment and she was not the one to play such game.
It took me several years to assess this information on a very large prospective. Independantly of how she did it, managing the custody (except every other week end) of her daughter and  she was at leat a real 7+, i have to tell you that :
We are not equal in sexuality. Tell how many guys do you know who can get 40 or 50 women in one year ? Even an ugly woman can put an ad on internet, very clear about her sexual needs and she will get, in the big cities, one guy at least per week interested. I have around me an ugly women, 45, overweighted, with health problem who really likes the dick, believe me she has no problem to find a partner.

So that is the ugly truth : women can easily satisfy their libido, it is granted for them.
Try now in internet, to put the photo of angly guy with an average profil and i can tell you that this profile can wait for years before getting a notch.

Yes we are not equal in terms of sexual possibilites and the balance is clearly in disfavor of men.

However and that is the most surprising, as i was looking the age pyramid and genders distritution in my country  i was very surprised because in fact there are more women than men (a little, not so much) after 24. The difference is more than half million between 20 and 60. http://www.insee.fr/fr/themes/detail.asp?ref_id=bilan-demo®_id=0&page=donnees-detaillees/bilan-demo/pop_age2b.htm (http://www.insee.fr/fr/themes/detail.asp?ref_id=bilan-demo®_id=0&page=donnees-detaillees/bilan-demo/pop_age2b.htm)
But if you go out a lot you will realize that in 95 % of places there are more men than women. And the nice girls (put here your cursor on the ones you like) are totally overnumbered. The fact that women have for the most part of the time the custody of children don't explain all.

So men have been raised in scarsity for the sexual commitment they want. The demeanor of many is that their desire, their needs in this topic outmatch from far what women can give back. They logically feel and understand that there are a few offfers and a lot of requests : that is the law of the market.
Come on guys !!!! Do you really believe that women desire and sexuality is less than her male counterpart ? Really ? Do you thing that they like sex LESS than men ? You are wrong they like it minimum as much as men, and they are more numerous than men. And they also need you to have children, and they hope you to support them in a way on an other even if they (this society, the feminist movement) spit on you every day.
All the secret is here, how to throw a scarsity which in fact is in your favor and to let you believe that you are the seeker. But you are not the seeker, they are the seekers, and their agenda is compressed, your has absolutely less dealines.

As we will see later in my posts here, i started to figure out this, but it didn't come in one piece, it took me many years.
Quite differently than the PUA coaches who ignore this fact or voluntarily lie about it i started, from this time, to rely that socio economy has a real link in dating, which is clearly etablished by a american sociologist that i will talk about latter.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jazztropy on November 12, 2014, 06:08:52 AM
Thanks, Patagonie.

This type of information is not common on this site.  I wait for your next installment.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2014, 10:02:50 AM
This is coming from the site "A voice for men". It is like a tao. However i do not know what is smv (V is surely value) and awalt, any suggestion are welcome.

The 4 Noble Truths of Red Pill.
  The 8 fold path of increasing SMV
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2014, 10:06:48 AM
i got one :
not all women are like that (NAWALT).
all women are like that (AWALT).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 13, 2014, 11:45:03 AM
We are not equal in sexuality. Tell how many guys do you know who can get 40 or 50 women in one year ? Even an ugly woman can put an ad on internet, very clear about her sexual needs and she will get, in the big cities, one guy at least per week interested. I have around me an ugly women, 45, overweighted, with health problem who really likes the dick, believe me she has no problem to find a partner.

So that is the ugly truth : women can easily satisfy their libido, it is granted for them.
Try now in internet, to put the photo of angly guy with an average profil and i can tell you that this profile can wait for years before getting a notch.

Yes we are not equal in terms of sexual possibilites and the balance is clearly in disfavor of men.

Don't tell this to the feminists, you know it does not fit their narrative.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2014, 12:46:42 PM
Don't tell this to the feminists, you know it does not fit their narrative.

The key is to absolutely not take in consideration about what western women are are telling you when it is about relationships

My favorite sentence since 6 years is :
They don't tell what they think and they don't think what they tell you (i talk here about gender relationships i insist)

My life has become really more confortable since.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 13, 2014, 01:07:40 PM
Come on guys !!!! Do you really believe that women desire and sexuality is less than her male counterpart ? Really ? Do you thing that they like sex LESS than men ? You are wrong they like it minimum as much as men, and they are more numerous than men.

Sorry Pat, I have to disagree with you here.

The average woman has a much lower sex drive than the average man.

During teenage years, the average guy jerks off 3 or more times a day.  The average gal thinks about polishing her bean maybe once a week.

If the average adult man thinks about having sex every third day, the average adult woman can go 14-20 days or so before Mother nature gives them a nudge in this direction.

Now, this does not mean than the average woman won't have sex as often as her partner desires . . . it's just that it is not uppermost in her mind, as it is with the man, if opportunities do not present themselves.

And, if to change the focus a bit:  The average woman can enjoy sex (as in achieving orgasm) by an exponential factor greater than an average man can, in any given time frame.

So, in this area, we must take care to distinguish between:

1) desire to have sex.
2) ability to enjoy sex.

God must be laughing every day about the double asymmetry he put into place.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 13, 2014, 06:30:06 PM
God must be laughing every day about the double asymmetry he put into place.

If there is a God he's a prankster, isn't he?   ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Slumba on November 13, 2014, 06:59:10 PM
SMV = "sexual market value"
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 14, 2014, 07:56:33 AM
SMV = "sexual market value"
Thank Slumbe
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 14, 2014, 08:03:49 AM
ML,

Ok let say that men  have a higher drive than women.

After all we can say that women's sastisfaction in this area requires less effort to be filled than what a  man has to do.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 14, 2014, 08:25:09 AM
So after episode 3/3 with my fickle ex GF i was ready to explore again the universe. Due to my new environment i felt nice in my skin. I was in good shape, enjoying my new appartment and some nice toys. It is funny to consider how things look better when you start to control what you are doing. I therefore  also restarted to be in fashion, a little, like i liked to do it a decade before.

Then came my neighbour, a petite blond with all the necessary padding.
I tried my chance by stopping her in the garage and giving her a paper with my phone number, a short funny text aiming for a rendez vous.
Don't tell me about game, i was having not a clue about this.
Just you dare, just this, you wear your balls by coming front to women, and you are likely to have good chance to win something.

Yes,

Why i tell you this ?

Cause in the two years she was in this building three others guys tried to hit her. The first dropped some flowers on the table of her garden. She never figured out who was this guy. And other dropped a professional car in her letter box with a mobile phone written with a pen. Again she could'nt figure out who it was. Couldn't put a face on it. She also found a poem i don't remember how. Yes nice move, but she had no fuckin idea about who wrote it.
That 's it. Of course she never called the one with the professional card.  Three shots, three misses.

So i was not in the game, but by coming upfront, writing something cute and diret, i got my chance.

Please note that in this previous years i was more the type of "write a stupid poem and get flat dick for the rest of the month". ;D

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on November 14, 2014, 09:35:17 AM
Pat the White Panther, sorry for this brief interruption to your interesting story, I wanted to discuss something you and ML mentioned.


The average woman has a much lower sex drive than the average man.


Two points: 

1) you use the term "average."
2) you seemingly limit sex to a mechanical perspective, which is mostly about hormones. 

 
This raises some questions.


How many women are average?

Beyond the median range one can encounter some naturally highly charged women.
 

How many women are average all the time?

A woman can change.   Unleashing a woman who has repressed her drive for a long, long time is something to marvel.  Also, introducing her to something new may enliven her appetite. 


How do you measure sex?

From a mechanical perspective, sex can be measured in terms of intensity, duration and frequency. Both sides of the physical equation need to be considered.  On the male side, men here are not young juicy boys, some of us no longer able to piss in a straight line.   While intensity is the same if not better than in our younger years, and duration has increased as well, frequency is another matter.   


What is missing in this discussion?

There is another factor, and it is most importantIMO.  What was once an average sexual appetite for a particular woman can change dramatically if she and her partner are in love.   The sexual encounter of course still has its hormone-driven physical aspects, yet it can when "in love" transcend to something higher.    Sexual fulfillment is way more than having an orgasm.


What else to consider?

Mind over matter, medication, etc.


In summary, I assert sexual compatibility, particularly fulfillment,  is more common than one would think based on intersection of the average male with the average female female.   

 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 14, 2014, 10:19:25 AM
1) you use the term "average."
2) you seemingly limit sex to a mechanical perspective, which is mostly about hormones. 

 
This raises some questions.


How many women are average?

Beyond the median range one can encounter some naturally highly charged women.
 

How many women are average all the time?

A woman can change.   Unleashing a woman who has repressed her drive for a long, long time is something to marvel.  Also, introducing her to something new may enliven her appetite. 


How do you measure sex?

From a mechanical perspective, sex can be measured in terms of intensity, duration and frequency. Both sides of the physical equation need to be considered.  On the male side, men here are not young juicy boys, some of us no longer able to piss in a straight line.   While intensity is the same if not better than in our younger years, and duration has increased as well, frequency is another matter.   


What is missing in this discussion?

There is another factor, and it is most importantIMO.  What was once an average sexual appetite for a particular woman can change dramatically if she and her partner are in love.   The sexual encounter of course still has its hormone-driven physical aspects, yet it can when "in love" transcend to something higher.    Sexual fulfillment is way more than having an orgasm.


What else to consider?

Mind over matter, medication, etc.


In summary, I assert sexual compatibility, particularly fulfillment,  is more common than one would think based on intersection of the average male with the average female female. 

Gator, sophisticated write up; but it obfuscates the truth as I had written:

The average woman has a much lower sex drive than the average man.

During teenage years, the average guy jerks off 3 or more times a day.  The average gal thinks about polishing her bean maybe once a week.

If the average adult man thinks about having sex every third day, the average adult woman can go 14-20 days or so before Mother nature gives them a nudge in this direction.

Now, this does not mean than the average woman won't have sex as often as her partner desires . . . it's just that it is not uppermost in her mind, as it is with the man, if opportunities do not present themselves.

And, if to change the focus a bit:  The average woman can enjoy sex (as in achieving orgasm) by an exponential factor greater than an average man can, in any given time frame.

So, in this area, we must take care to distinguish between:

1) desire to have sex.
2) ability to enjoy sex.

God must be laughing every day about the double asymmetry he put into place.

= = = = = = = =

However, let me add that I have been fortunate (or lucky) enough to spend considerable time with a few women who were 'off the chart' in terms of sexual appetite.  Included were 4 who started off lower than average and became much higher than average.

So I have no real complaints about sex; except when I hear the assertions that women (in general) have just as much sex drive as men (in general).  Simply not true.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Slumba on November 14, 2014, 11:18:28 AM
So after episode 3/3 with my fickle ex GF i was ready to explore again the universe. Due to my new environment i felt nice in my skin. I was in good shape, enjoying my new appartment and some nice toys. It is funny to consider how things look better when you start to control what you are doing. I therefore  also restarted to be in fashion, a little, like i liked to do it a decade before.

Then came my neighbour, a petite blond with all the necessary padding.

Please note that in this previous years i was more the type of "write a stupid poem and get flat dick for the rest of the month". ;D

Great stuff! Something every guy in this pursuit should read ...!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on November 14, 2014, 11:23:38 AM

...except when I hear the assertions that women (in general) have just as much sex drive as men (in general).  Simply not true.

I bet Brad Pitt never thought such in his single days.   :D :D :D :D 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 15, 2014, 04:01:24 AM
Gator,
nice and sophisticated post.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 15, 2014, 05:05:50 AM
She sent me back a SMS telling me that she was very busy but in few days (saturday) it would be possible to meet.

Note : the truth : she was absolutely not busy but a woman would be close to the suicide to tell you that she is suffering from loneliness and her social life is almost empty. Traditional BS of western women.

I met her first in her appartment (2 floors below  :P ) and we aimed a nice restaurant on the top of a hill, close to the city, with a  incredible viewpoint. I told her that we will have diner with a couple of friends, i saw her raising an eyebrown, it is not so often that a guy who see a nice looking woman for the first time want to share this moment with people. She was surprised.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 15, 2014, 10:05:11 AM
Quote
Traditional BS of western women.


No offence intended, but this sentence tells me that even after your studies, and your successful marriage, you still don't understand women. 


Of course a woman, even one who is alone, is going to tell you she is busy.  She wants you to believe she is desirable and desired.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 15, 2014, 02:04:36 PM

No offence intended, but this sentence tells me that even after your studies, and your successful marriage, you still don't understand women. 


Of course a woman, even one who is alone, is going to tell you she is busy.  She wants you to believe she is desirable and desired.

Which is basically what he said.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 15, 2014, 04:21:10 PM
No it isn't. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jazztropy on November 15, 2014, 08:57:14 PM
Nice humor.  Thanks for agreeing with what Patagonie said.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 16, 2014, 05:42:46 AM
Which is basically what he said.
+1 lol
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 16, 2014, 06:12:09 AM
Nice humor.  Thanks for agreeing with what Patagonie said.
+1
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 16, 2014, 06:14:34 AM
No it isn't.
Boethius is a smart and high educated woman. FSU women are often top notch people, but culturally you can notice that they are also stubborn  :P ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 16, 2014, 07:43:35 AM
I am not culturally Ukrainian.


You can believe a woman telling you she is unavailable is "typical WW BS", but first, it is universal, and second, it is not BS.


I think all your journey tells me is that you lacked confidence, and hence, were unsuccessful with women.  When you gained confidence, your success rate improved.  It isn't rocket science, and no pills are required.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BorisS on November 16, 2014, 10:57:11 AM
I am not culturally Ukrainian.


You can believe a woman telling you she is unavailable is "typical WW BS", but first, it is universal, and second, it is not BS.


I think all your journey tells me is that you lacked confidence, and hence, were unsuccessful with women.  When you gained confidence, your success rate improved.  It isn't rocket science, and no pills are required.


Well, maybe one...:-)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 17, 2014, 04:19:12 AM
Boethius is right about confidence, women really like confident men.

         The red pill is about restoring the value of men by letting know how much they are worthy, in a civilization which daily spit on them, and second the red pill is about to name the double standard and educate men about the dangers of the current system for them when they enter in a long term relationship, or even any intercourse.

         The game has an additionnal benefit for men within the framework of the red pill, which is to help them to get out from the day to day women BS, to start to think by himself, be protected from any manipulation, and kick the need to believe that men need some validation from them. A woman who lies to improve her value or playing with you as a toy, or whatever, this is BS. In this topic, they are unquestionably the queens. 

I remind you again my favorite sentence, built after years of experience : women are not going to tell you what they think, and they don't think about what they say, i mean in the context of gender relationship in the west.

When you start to stop to worry about what they can say or think (what they don't say or don't think also :P ) your life gets a huge improvment and you use less aspirine.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 17, 2014, 08:58:41 AM
Quote
women are not going to tell you what they think, and they don't think about what they say, i mean in the context of gender relationship in the west.


I disagree with you here, as well.  There may be different cultural approaches in different Western countries.  I think in North America, most women do tend to tell men what they think, but only after a certain level of trust exists.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 17, 2014, 10:25:42 AM
i have found communication with FSU women really better and clearer about "building a couple" "aiming a marriage" rather than western women.
You can talk barely frankly (provided that they are genuine and interested) with FSU women about what you want, don't want, qualities required (i speak for both genders).
With western women a lot are trying to hide their needs to not show that they are vulnerable, some will talk you about what they want, but if you go this way you will severly crash because in fact they want secretly the opposite. I found them really more complicated and shallow.
The result is that they are confused, and their feminity seriously suffers from this fact.
And i don't think that a certain level of trust changes anything. As proof when you are just friends with women, you get unusable answers about genders relationships from them also.They would give you the standards answers which never work and it gives you no more success with women (in the seduction area).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 17, 2014, 10:39:42 AM
Have you considered that the FSUW you were communicating with were self selected?  The FSUW you met presumably were registered at agencies and desired marriage and a family life.  The WW you met may not have been as clear in wanting marriage and a family, unless the WW you met were on websites devoted solely to finding a suitable mate for marriage.

Quote
They would give you the standards answers which never work and it gives you no more success with women (in the seduction area).

I think you make this far more complicated than it really is.

How would you define success?  Is it bedding a lot of women?  Or finding one woman who is faithful to you?

When I look at men around me who have been successful with women, I observe a variety of approaches.  A Lothario has a different approach, and attracts different women, than does a one woman man. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2014, 04:42:10 AM
Have you considered that the FSUW you were communicating with were self selected?  The FSUW you met presumably were registered at agencies and desired marriage and a family life.  The WW you met may not have been as clear in wanting marriage and a family, unless the WW you met were on websites devoted solely to finding a suitable mate for marriage.

I think you make this far more complicated than it really is.

How would you define success?  Is it bedding a lot of women?  Or finding one woman who is faithful to you?

When I look at men around me who have been successful with women, I observe a variety of approaches.  A Lothario has a different approach, and attracts different women, than does a one woman man.

Correct, FSU women i met were filtered.
As you perhaps remember a serious survey had been done on a forum letting know that the chance of non divorce was better for cross couples (living in the west at the end) provided that they took time to get acquainted (so the one week wonder would suffer from a higher rate of divorce). I consider that the pre screening and discovering time under the "marriage project" is probably one key of the success for such couples.

But at the end the fact is that it changes nothing about the reality of the western market dating. I have been an active member for a decade of a leisure club only open for singles. I saw thousands single and divorced men and women during this time (i don't exagrerate the numeral). I have been the witness of dozens of stories or more (not counting mines), and never heard  ONE pronoucing the word "marriage", or a constructive speech around "building a LTR". Barely all paid members were there because only singles could be registered (it would have not worked if it had been only a leisure club) but ALL women were telling you that they came here to meet some friends and have some entertainment. During 10 years i heard the same BS, but the fact is that they would have never given  even one $ for a family club.
It is not that they are not clear in wanting a family, it just that they hide it, because it is not promoting them quite the opposite it  lowers their value on the market dating. The double standard is to be the seeker but let  men to believe that women are in high demand and that they are the needy people, typical feminin tactic.

I was not against western women and i was dating a lot locally through my FSU journey. The fact is that the first problem i was having with WW was that they were shallow, confused, capable  of telling you "i want" but in fact  seing their actions  it was just BS. I found nice looking french women, highly educated for some. I gave them a chance but they could stand comparison with FSU women in term of feminity. Be feminine or advertise your feminity is betraying your sisters in the west, it is a crime. This new trend has let a lot of damage in the feminine psyche and it not ending unfortunately in a world  loosing all his marks. If you add that FSU women allow a bigger gap age, are IMHO in average more beautiful, and more important let you feel and respect you like a real man every day you understand why we are on the board.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2014, 05:09:23 AM
The success ?
The success today is to be attractive. It is absolutely what women practice every day, that is the heart of their power. It is why they expense so much money on cosmetic and surgery.

After, what you do with your attractiveness is your problem, depending of the long or none term oriented phasis in you are. It can help you to find a bride or to bed a lot. There are not link between faithfullness and banging. All real stories start by a bed (or a car, or a beach, wherever you do it).

About the belief that the bedding men are attracting a different type of women and so the "pure and serious" women are protected from such Lotharios is an absolutely ridiculous belief and thinking. Which absolutely doesn't match with the reality of the social dating and all the report fields of the pua communities. And if i remember the decade i spent in the club, the most attracting or seductive  guys got a lot of variety of women. I would even say that the "bitches" are perhaps  more warned about lotharios because they have a better social and sexual experience.

Attraction is not a choice, it not a painting can so you can recognize it because like  the guy is wearing  a sign on his jacket. You don't decide if you are attracted, you are DOT.

No with the pua stuff, it is true that you can have a lot of guys who are going to try weird things on you (especially the young guys) the frequency on how such guys are trying "weird things" can alert you, but it is just because they are beginners (and young) and using some internet material without owning what they do.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 18, 2014, 01:17:29 PM
Quote
As you perhaps remember a serious survey had been done on a forum letting know that the chance of non divorce was better for cross couples (living in the west at the end) provided that they took time to get acquainted (so the one week wonder would suffer from a higher rate of divorce). I consider that the pre screening and discovering time under the "marriage project" is probably one key of the success for such couples.

I don't think that WM/FSUW marriages have a higher success rate than do WM/WW marriages.  BTW, I am in a "one week wonder" marriage. ;)

On your comments re WW and marriage, I remember my cousin, at close to age 30, was dating a man who came from a family of 13 children, none of whom were married, and he insisted he would never marry.  She stated that was fine, as she never wanted marriage or kids.  My husband laughed at that and told me "What do you expect her to say, when there is no marriage offer on the table?"

A wise man.  After a few years of living together, and one break up (in which they sold their jointly owned home), he did propose.  They now have two children.

Another story.  My husband was speaking to a man he works with.  The  man was in his early thirties, and had been living with his girlfriend for several years.  My husband asked if they were planning to marry.  "No," the man responded, "my girlfriend doesn't care about getting married or starting a family."  My husband told the young man "Yes, she does.  You just don't see it.  A woman's shelf life is much shorter than a man's.  She has invested years in you.  Of course she wants to marry and start a family."

The young man was shocked at my husband's words.  But shortly after, he mentioned marriage to her.  A year later, they had a child and are now expecting their second.  He told my husband "You were right.  She really cared."

I believe almost all WW want to marry, and most want children.  However, society tells WW that to express such a desire is wrong.  It also tends to scare men away, so her chance of finding a suitable man through dating is lessened.  She will seem desperate and undesirable to men if she expresses her wish to marry and have a family life, or she believes this to be the case.  It is safer to say "Oh, I am not looking for marriage, no.  I want friendship and possibly a man to sleep with."  It is not true, and only a rube would believe these words at face value.  If WM, on the whole, stated that their goal in meeting women was to find one to marry ASAP, in the social settings you described, WW would be stating "My goal in life is to find a good man to marry."

FSU society, OTOH, expects women to marry and be mothers.  It is the raison d'etre in being a woman.  The attitude toward women is very different than in the West.  So, it is acceptable for a woman there to express her desire to be married and have a family.

So, blame Western society on the whole, rather than WW.  They are responding to what men seem to want, or, at least, to what they perceive men want.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 18, 2014, 02:52:12 PM

I believe almost all WW want to marry, and most want children.  However, society tells WW that to express such a desire is wrong.  It also tends to scare men away, so her chance of finding a suitable man through dating is lessened.  She will seem desperate and undesirable to men if she expresses her wish to marry and have a family life, or she believes this to be the case.  It is safer to say "Oh, I am not looking for marriage, no.  I want friendship and possibly a man to sleep with."  It is not true, and only a rube would believe these words at face value.  If WM, on the whole, stated that their goal in meeting women was to find one to marry ASAP, in the social settings you described, WW would be stating "My goal in life is to find a good man to marry."

Wow!  Just wow.

 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 18, 2014, 02:55:06 PM
Laugh if you wish.  The fact you do so tells me you don't understand women.  That is common among many posters here.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 18, 2014, 03:04:49 PM
Rather than waste any of my precious time trying to "understand" WW myself and other posters here prefer this:

FSU society, OTOH, expects women to marry and be mothers.  It is the raison d'etre in being a woman.  The attitude toward women is very different than in the West.  So, it is acceptable for a woman there to express her desire to be married and have a family.

(or Asian women, or Latin American women, or women from any other Continent except for N. America)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 18, 2014, 03:31:25 PM
If you don't understand something as basic as I have described about WW, what makes you believe you will understand foreign women any better?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: JayH on November 18, 2014, 04:03:36 PM
I have to say-- Pat----  as always very interesting thought process and observations and enjoyable and at times entertaining & funny reading.
I am also enjoying reading the other contributions immensely here.
 In another lifetime I was married to a psychiatrist  and well and truly got past  every sentence being over analysed-- a problem I see here with generalisations being treated as absolutes in attitudes .
Regardless--plaudits to all for your patience!! :)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 18, 2014, 05:41:20 PM
This has been around before, I think; but speaking of understanding women . . .
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 19, 2014, 12:15:50 PM
I have to say-- Pat----  as always very interesting thought process and observations and enjoyable and at times entertaining & funny reading.
I am also enjoying reading the other contributions immensely here.
 In another lifetime I was married to a psychiatrist  and well and truly got past  every sentence being over analysed-- a problem I see here with generalisations being treated as absolutes in attitudes .
Regardless--plaudits to all for your patience!! :)

thank you for your post.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 19, 2014, 12:21:39 PM
This is a very interesting link about how to build and keep a couple :

/http://www.forbes.com/sites/kareanderson/2012/09/03/the-end-of-men-and-the-rise-of-women-and-heated-debate/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/kareanderson/2012/09/03/the-end-of-men-and-the-rise-of-women-and-heated-debate/)

the best passage imho is here :
"Contempt, they have found, is the number one factor that tears couples apart. People who are focused on criticizing their partners miss a whopping 50 percent of positive things their partners are doing and they see negativity when it’s not there. People who give their partner the cold shoulder—deliberately ignoring the partner or responding minimally—damage the relationship by making their partner feel worthless and invisible, as if they’re not there, not valued. And people who treat their partners with contempt and criticize them not only kill the love in the relationship, but they also kill their partner's ability (http://pni.osumc.edu/KG%20Publications%20%28pdf%29/109.pdf) to fight off viruses and cancers. Being mean is the death knell of relationships."
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 19, 2014, 12:25:08 PM
From the same article :
"Every day in June, the most popular wedding month of the year, about 13,000 American couples will say “I do,” committing to a lifelong relationship that will be full of friendship, joy, and love that will carry them forward to their final days on this earth.
Except, of course, it doesn’t work out that way for most people. The majority of marriages fail, either ending in divorce and separation or devolving into bitterness and dysfunction. Of all the people who get married, only three in ten remain in healthy, happy marriages, as psychologist Ty Tashiro points out in his book The Science of Happily Ever After, which was published earlier this year."
I was on 50% of failed marriages after 7 years, it is worse than i thaught.

s

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 19, 2014, 12:30:39 PM
This has been around before, I think; but speaking of understanding women . . .
Just the Mystery method and two or three years of field, and you will doing well...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 19, 2014, 10:24:25 PM
This has been around before, I think; but speaking of understanding women . . .

That's for Western Women obviously.  The reason that guys date and marry women from the FSU is because it's a lot clearer where you stand; you don't have to put up with the constant silly head games.

Guys reading this thread need to ignore the static and pay close attention to what Patagonie is saying.  You can either waste a decade or more of your life with women who don't appreciate you in a society which as the OP states above constantly spits on men, or you can go to where you are the prize and where you can command what it is you want -- as long as you are a decent guy with a decent income .

Not only that, but you can date a younger more slender, more beautiful, more intelligent, more feminine (insert quality here) than the women from the West who are usually borderline obese or worse yet "BBW" (and they think their hot), tatoo's, drug problems (420 "friendly"), bi-sexual who think that having sex with their girlfriend is not cheating (and putting your life at risk for STD) etc. etc.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 19, 2014, 10:33:15 PM
I am not culturally Ukrainian.

This is now abundantly clear.  You're a Western Woman "feminist"; and it's you who does not understand women; yet you want to lecture us.

 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 19, 2014, 10:58:43 PM
I'm not lecturing anyone.


I have, through my life, known literally hundreds of WW.  UW as well.  Among the WW I know, none have tattoos, most have been married for at least a decade, and most have children.  What sort of circles do you travel in that you come across tattooed women, women who use drugs, lacking in intelligence, etc. (though with your appalling spelling and punctuation, you may wish to consider how you judge the last item on the list).


I do think Western society needs to change to be more family oriented, but there are plenty of problems in Ukrainian society.  Don't assume the culture is "better" than in the West.  It's not.


The absolutes as you have presented suggests a man with personal issues.  And the issue is not WW.   Men who don't like women don't fare any better long term with (Slavic/Latin/Asian) etc. women than they do with WW.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 20, 2014, 02:08:02 AM
That's for Western Women obviously.  The reason that guys date and marry women from the FSU is because it's a lot clearer where you stand; you don't have to put up with the constant silly head games.

Guys reading this thread need to ignore the static and pay close attention to what Patagonie is saying.  You can either waste a decade or more of your life with women who don't appreciate you in a society which as the OP states above constantly spits on men, or you can go to where you are the prize and where you can command what it is you want -- as long as you are a decent guy with a decent income .

Not only that, but you can date a younger more slender, more beautiful, more intelligent, more feminine (insert quality here) than the women from the West who are usually borderline obese or worse yet "BBW" (and they think their hot), tatoo's, drug problems (420 "friendly"), bi-sexual who think that having sex with their girlfriend is not cheating (and putting your life at risk for STD) etc. etc.

Thank you for your post.
This is exactly "or you can go to where you are the prize" what a member was promoting in his forum http://zonzonworld.com/mens-value-is-plummeting-in-usa (http://zonzonworld.com/mens-value-is-plummeting-in-usa), even if he recently married with an american women which proves that there are decent women everywhere. However his experience describes what you are writing.  Marriage dating or LTR dating  are clearly in favor or the man when he starts to date abroad. It is  not only because of economical differences. The main stream of FSU women would be happy with what they consider as upper middle class western men. Unfortunately as they have a distorted understanding of the west, the upper middle class is in fact the 10-1 % of the top earning class, which leads more to the well off group, if you want the dream to be possible.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 20, 2014, 03:06:30 AM
I was two days ago reading the newspaper. The first page title was something like "Women work accidents have  increased of 20%".
Smelling the booby trap, i started to search some serious material about this.
It was quite difficult, but finally i focused about the fatal accidents, all the others should be barely in proportion of these ones. My statistics are not recent but this is not the point (they come from a gouvernement institute in charge  of the workforce's health).
The point is (excluding fatal trips transportation, in which still men got the most fatalities (75 %)) :

MEN :
695
WOMEN
44

Ok let say that yes nine more women died from such accidents last year, so  it should be a national revolution : parliament should once more and immediately legislate in this area and millions of people should go in the streets to protest.
That that's the tone setted by medias around such informations.

And who cares about the 695 ? It just bad smelling meat, no ways to talk about this garbagge.

And when you start to notice about "genders" informations, and you analyse it very carefully, you begin to realize how numerals and appearance are twisted. This is a total lack of respect for men and global mass media  manipulation.

I have only one word : this is totally disgusting.

But the problem is that it happens every day in the western world.
A journalist reporting such twisted informations, if it were  about women, would no so longer keep his job. At least he would suffer for a fierce challenging and a lot of attacks.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 20, 2014, 03:56:58 AM
I was two days ago reading the newspaper. The first page title was something like "Women work accidents have  increased of 20%".
Smelling the booby trap, i started to search some serious material about this.
It was quite difficult, but finally i focused about the fatal accidents, all the others should be barely in proportion of these ones. My statistics are not recent but this is not the point (they come from a gouvernement institute in charge  of the workforce's health).
The point is (excluding fatal trips transportation, in which still men got the most fatalities (75 %)) :

MEN :
695
WOMEN
44

Ok let say that yes nine more women died from such accidents last year, so  it should be a national revolution : parliament should once more and immediately legislate in this area and millions of people should go in the streets to protest.
That that's the tone setted by medias around such informations.

And who cares about the 695 ? It just bad smelling meat, no ways to talk about this garbagge.

And when you start to notice about "genders" informations, and you analyse it very carefully, you begin to realize how numerals and appearance are twisted. This is a total lack of respect for men and global mass media  manipulation.

I have only one word : this is totally disgusting.

But the problem is that it happens every day in the western world.
A journalist reporting such twisted informations, if it were  about women, would no so longer keep his job. At least he would suffer for a fierce challenging and a lot of attacks.

Sadly this is a normal thing in the West, and people become so accustomed to the propaganda putting down men while simultaneously putting women on a pedestal that they don't even notice it any more.

In US politics the stratagy of the Democratic party has been to claim that there is a "war on women" when in fact the opposite is true:  there has been a war on men in the West for the past 50 years. 

It's only by going to a culture and a society where a man can escape the matrix of an artificially contrived society, and see how men and women have interacted for thousands of years; that a guy can finally free himself of the lies and constraints which have been holding him back from living his dreams.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: pitbull on November 20, 2014, 05:48:26 AM
You misspelled "live", it should be life.  If you want to call somebody else's spelling "appalling" then you may wish to do a better check of your own.

Guys, let me point out two obvious problems here:

You see what happens when you disagree with a Western "feminist"?  Suddenly you come under the usual personal attacks.  Suddenly:

a)  I'm not intelligent because she alleges that I made spelling and punctuation errors.

and this one is really crucial to understanding the usual drama from the WW

b)  Suddenly I don't like women!   ;) 

That one is really the creme de la creme.  You can see the usual need to try to conrol a man by putting him down.  Oh, if only I could travel in her cricles, if only this, if only that.

Or guys, you can do what Patagonie suggested and take the red pill.  Get out of the matrix that the WW with her myriad of issues wants to trap you in.  As you can see above -- their number one tactic is a control issue -- agree with me, or else.

Take the red pill guys.


I am as FSUW as as they come and I completely agree with Boethius. My AM husband never said a bad word about AW. He likes and respects women, period. When I was searching, men like you who trash all WW went straight into trash. From my experience and reading stories on forums for RW abroad for the last 10 years, men who badmouth all WW are mostly just sad losers with personality problems and control freak inclinations. It is general advice on RW forums to stay away from those men.


If all you can get in the US is trailer trash women (trust me FSU has a fair share of those) this points to your own flaws. I've been here for 10 years and know hundreds of AW. They are all well educated and either want a family or are happily married with children and happy husbands.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: fathertime on November 20, 2014, 07:36:35 AM



I do think Western society needs to change to be more family oriented, but there are plenty of problems in Ukrainian society.  Don't assume the culture is "better" than in the West.  It's not.


The absolutes as you have presented suggests a man with personal issues.  And the issue is not WW.   Men who don't like women don't fare any better long term with (Slavic/Latin/Asian) etc. women than they do with WW.


Why does western society NEED to be more family oriented?  What do you mean by this?


Thanks,
Fathertime!   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Pkeel1 on November 20, 2014, 07:58:56 AM
This has always perplexed me a little.  I think Boethius and Pitbull are correct, and I also agree with Pat.  I think all three are saying roughly the same thing. 

AW and FSU are not all that much different, but the part that does create some difference is the availability of a good woman.  I have many friends that are happily married and have been for a long time to AW.  And those ladies are fantastic and good women, but they are not available women.

I have used the dating sites here and I have met more than a few women here.  Some were not interested in me and I was not interested in some of them.  Some were just plain undatable messes.  But I am in a more rural area and the pool of available women is not large. 

Two things set the FSU women apart from the local... One thing is distance, it is about a one hours drive to a sizable city here, I would be happy to make the drive and I am able to relocate if it is necessary, but the women there are not interested in a "long distance" relationship.  So the FSU woman that is willing to make the leap of distance and culture is in my opinion much more committed to a relationship than the AW woman.

The other issue is a FSUW seems more interested in dating as a purpose rather than as a diversion.  She seems more focused on where it will go in the long run than in having her Friday night's date card filled in.

I will say, I have no experience with younger women and what they might be like; AW or FSUW, I have no idea.  I would not even consider a FSUW under 40.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 20, 2014, 10:16:33 AM
I was two days ago reading the newspaper. The first page title was something like "Women work accidents have  increased of 20%".
Smelling the booby trap, i started to search some serious material about this.
It was quite difficult, but finally i focused about the fatal accidents, all the others should be barely in proportion of these ones. My statistics are not recent but this is not the point (they come from a gouvernement institute in charge  of the workforce's health).
The point is (excluding fatal trips transportation, in which still men got the most fatalities (75 %)) :

MEN :
695
WOMEN
44

Ok let say that yes nine more women died from such accidents last year, so  it should be a national revolution : parliament should once more and immediately legislate in this area and millions of people should go in the streets to protest.
That that's the tone setted by medias around such informations.

And who cares about the 695 ? It just bad smelling meat, no ways to talk about this garbagge.

And when you start to notice about "genders" informations, and you analyse it very carefully, you begin to realize how numerals and appearance are twisted. This is a total lack of respect for men and global mass media  manipulation.

I have only one word : this is totally disgusting.

But the problem is that it happens every day in the western world.
A journalist reporting such twisted informations, if it were  about women, would no so longer keep his job. At least he would suffer for a fierce challenging and a lot of attacks.

I don't see why this is disgusting.  Other than the sex trade, women have generally not worked in professions that are dangerous (coal mining, construction, transport, oilfield services, military).  So, as they enter those professions, the rate of fatalities will increase.

It could be that the overall number of deaths of men in those professions (other than military) declined.  It is also possible that the total number of fatalities in the professions declined, but that there were female victims where there were not in the past.

Had I read a similar article, I likely would have taken from it that women are now entering traditionally (dangerous) male professions.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 20, 2014, 10:17:57 AM

I am as FSUW as as they come and I completely agree with Boethius. My AM husband never said a bad word about AW. He likes and respects women, period. When I was searching, men like you who trash all WW went straight into trash. From my experience and reading stories on forums for RW abroad for the last 10 years, men who badmouth all WW are mostly just sad losers with personality problems and control freak inclinations. It is general advice on RW forums to stay away from those men.


If all you can get in the US is trailer trash women (trust me FSU has a fair share of those) this points to your own flaws. I've been here for 10 years and know hundreds of AW. They are all well educated and either want a family or are happily married with children and happy husbands.


Exactly.  As usual, you said it better than I did. :)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 20, 2014, 10:23:21 AM

Why does western society NEED to be more family oriented?  What do you mean by this?


Thanks,
Fathertime!


Western societies are not structured in a way to make life easy for couples with children, in most ways.  Popular culture also is focused around "me, me, me", for both young women and young men.


I think the diversity of Western societies, and tolerance of different lifestyles is a good thing.  However, there is a lack of balance.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 20, 2014, 10:28:10 AM
.....create some difference is the availability of a good woman.  I have many friends that are happily married and have been for a long time to AW.  And those ladies are fantastic and good women, but they are not available women.

Two things set the FSU women apart from the local... One thing is distance, it is about a one hours drive to a sizable city here, I would be happy to make the drive and I am able to relocate if it is necessary, but the women there are not interested in a "long distance" relationship.  So the FSU woman that is willing to make the leap of distance and culture is in my opinion much more committed to a relationship than the AW woman.

The other issue is a FSUW seems more interested in dating as a purpose rather than as a diversion.  She seems more focused on where it will go in the long run than in having her Friday night's date card filled in
.

I've bolded the obvious differences.  Of course we all have friends and family who are married to great AW -- and like you said they are not available. 

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 20, 2014, 10:32:34 AM
Welcome to Russian Women Discussion!
 
Russian Women Discussion (RWD) is the premier and most progressive resource for those interested in a romantic relationship with a partner from the Former Soviet Union. At Russian Women Discussion you will uncover the truth through highly relevant and factual discussions about International Relationships and about the risks/rewards which await the intrepid adventurer in his travels to former Iron Curtain countries.
 
 
 
Everything you need to know about how to create a successful long-term international relationship is here, including information about finding, courting, marrying, immigration and adjustment into your country, and life after marriage.
 
 
 
Russian Women Discussion is about international relationships with Russian Women. We commonly use the term "Russian Women" to mean women from any of the countries of the Former Soviet Union. The media sometimes refers to them as "Mail Order Brides." Here at Russian Women Discussion you can learn the real truths about meeting, marrying and building a happy family and a successful International Relationship.


(Some people seem to need constand reminding about what the purpose of this forum really is  :o)


 :clapping:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 20, 2014, 10:33:15 AM
Some should read Dan's ripostes to such posts.


BTW, you received a response from a real, live RW. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 20, 2014, 10:36:43 AM
As his journey and eventual success in finding a wife, I respect Patagonie's effort in this thread, and his perspective.  Even if I don't always agree with his conclusions.


I just wanted you to know that, Pat.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 20, 2014, 01:46:39 PM
I don't see why this is disgusting.  Other than the sex trade, women have generally not worked in professions that are dangerous (coal mining, construction, transport, oilfield services, military).  So, as they enter those professions, the rate of fatalities will increase.

It could be that the overall number of deaths of men in those professions (other than military) declined.  It is also possible that the total number of fatalities in the professions declined, but that there were female victims where there were not in the past.

Had I read a similar article, I likely would have taken from it that women are now entering traditionally (dangerous) male professions.

IMHO you are correct about that some women are now in traditionnal male professions, however the traditionnal oriented  male and female occupations are still respected, so it is unlikely that you will meet a lot of women around computers or men in midwife career.

But my point was not here, it was about medias focusing about a micro event missing the main point which was  that men, in outstanding proportions, are filling the casualities and any actions taken would have a huge lever arm on men fatalities (women fatalities being insignificant the result would be invisible).

More generally, i have realised last years that a lot of informations are twisted (and not only about the gender rapport). BO  you have, for example, it seems to me, tell me if i am wrong, dig a lot about the ukrainian crisis and all the russian deny and global political manipulation.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 20, 2014, 03:53:15 PM

I am as FSUW as as they come and I completely agree with Boethius. My AM husband never said a bad word about AW. He likes and respects women, period. When I was searching, men like you who trash all WW went straight into trash. From my experience and reading stories on forums for RW abroad for the last 10 years, men who badmouth all WW are mostly just sad losers with personality problems and control freak inclinations. It is general advice on RW forums to stay away from those men.


If all you can get in the US is trailer trash women (trust me FSU has a fair share of those) this points to your own flaws. I've been here for 10 years and know hundreds of AW. They are all well educated and either want a family or are happily married with children and happy husbands.

Everyone here should remenber on which gate he is boarding.
Women coming right from FSU, have entered without delay in a married life.

To make simple
Two years ago my socials were 90 % singles 10% married or couples
Today : 85% couples or married and 15 % singles.
And i think that FSU women are in average more exclusive than AW for what the guys with whom i have discussed told me (married to FSU women).

So when you meet barely exclusively couples you are not really in  the informations' mainstream of all fights that singles have, about meeting separation/divorce, loneliness ....
BO you have probably if you have male customers more experience about social/economical life because of your occupation.

So long time married couples have the perspective of "normal" couples around them and are not really confronted to the reality of a failure between 50/70 % divorce rate. And so,  singles are more aware about the rest.

Trashing a gender works both side, it is recommended for a man in FSU to raise a red flag when the lady  is spitting on locals men in a repeated way.
You  also need to know that men in the west are not likely to criticize women in front of women, due to different effects. One is that a lot of men have never left the blue pill. But it is possible that they keep secret some thinking.  (DON'T see here, please, any personal attacks).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 20, 2014, 05:45:48 PM
IMHO you are correct about that some women are now in traditionnal male professions, however the traditionnal oriented  male and female occupations are still respected, so it is unlikely that you will meet a lot of women around computers or men in midwife career.

But my point was not here, it was about medias focusing about a micro event missing the main point which was  that men, in outstanding proportions, are filling the casualities and any actions taken would have a huge lever arm on men fatalities (women fatalities being insignificant the result would be invisible).

More generally, i have realised last years that a lot of informations are twisted (and not only about the gender rapport). BO  you have, for example, it seems to me, tell me if i am wrong, dig a lot about the ukrainian crisis and all the russian deny and global political manipulation.


Media is distilled and presents a particular perspective.  That is why it is important to read different perspectives, to try to ascertain the truth.


What I "got" from your description was merely an article on how the world is changing for women.  I've read plenty of articles on the high rate of death in mining, and those articles focused exclusively on men.  I didn't view that particular focus as anti woman, in any way.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 20, 2014, 05:54:25 PM
Quote
BO you have probably if you have male customers more experience about social/economical life because of your occupation.


Yes, the majority of my clients are men.  Most of them are extremely successful, and about half are divorced.  Some, multiple times.
Quote
So long time married couples have the perspective of "normal" couples around them and are not really confronted to the reality of a failure between 50/70 % divorce rate. And so,  singles are more aware about the rest.



The failure rate is not really 50%.  That figure comes from the fact that for every two marriages annually (in the US), there is one divorce.  That statistics are even more skewed, as second marriages, particularly with blended families, have a higher rate of divorce than do first marriages, and third marriages have a higher rate of divorce than do first and second marriages.


But, I get your point. 
Quote
Trashing a gender works both side, it is recommended for a man in FSU to raise a red flag when the lady  is spitting on locals men in a repeated way.You  also need to know that men in the west are not likely to criticize women in front of women, due to different effects. One is that a lot of men have never left the blue pill. But it is possible that they keep secret some thinking.  (DON'T see here, please, any personal attacks).



Yes, that is true about trashing men.   However, the attitude toward women is different in FSU societies (or at least, the Slavic portions).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Photo Guy on November 21, 2014, 12:09:03 AM
I think the diversity of Western societies, and tolerance of different lifestyles is a good thing.  However, there is a lack of balance.

Interesting. Can you elaborate? What do you mean by 'lack of balance'?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 21, 2014, 12:36:30 AM
Things seem to tilt one way as the ideal, or another.  Most people really muddle in the middle.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Photo Guy on November 21, 2014, 12:39:32 AM
Things are now easier after five weeks.
Daughter is making progress when reading the language, and she starts to understand some basic french.
My wife is now owning the home. Some would say that i have "slaved" her in domestic work, but the truth is that she don't work so her daily rythmin has to find some things to do. So she comes along with daughter to school four days per week and she cooks. She also starts to do more cleaning.
As men i do little job and all repair for the home and the family, and i work and take care of business.

Everyone made his quarrel or sulked, this week it was daughter. I am aware of this. Any guys should be aware that he will have to manage this type of behavior (and you will let sweat some irritation).
I met an ukrainian girl of 35 married to a a fellow countryman and she told me that she was hysteric the first year.

The fact is also that often guys are older and use to live alone. Generally ukranian ladies used to live in communauty (with mother, children), so the "gap", added to all cultural differences is more difficult to fulfill.

I see now that Pat is able to reveal some really important and interesting aspects of the re-adjustment period that a newlywed couple goes through, and specifically what happens between two people of different cultures
.....applause.....kudos...... I really like his perspective.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 21, 2014, 12:46:48 AM
Is it the oppression, or is there really less gays in Ukraine (and lesbians) ?

What do you think ?

Of course there are not fewer gays/lesbians.  As for oppression, it depends on the area of the country.

Ukraine was the first former Soviet republic to repeal the law against homosexuality.

Until a few years ago, it was not an issue at all.  In artistic circles, particularly ballet, it was well known and completely open.

I have a friend in Kyiv who is openly gay.  He wears his hair long, it is obvious that he is gay to anyone familiar with gay men.  However, I suspect your wife would not have recognized him, just as she said she had never met a gay man (she just likely never recognized the gay men around her).

Now, gays have rights, though not the right to marry, or adopt children, in Ukraine.  There are gay activists but, unfortunately, there are gay bashers now as well.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Photo Guy on November 21, 2014, 01:00:56 AM
Things seem to tilt one way as the ideal, or another.  Most people really muddle in the middle.

I would guess that the two extremes are:
1- a traditional view, where the couple has a goal of a successful family relationship where children are nurtured, and there are values promoted. Important qualities would be loyalty, patience, forgiveness, tolerance, prudence, education, etc., Qualities that support the family unit and strengthen it.
2- a view that values fun and enjoyment for the individual, physical and emotional ecstasy, orgasms, living in the moment, avoiding making sacrifices, etc.

And of course one extreme does not necessarily preclude the other, but generally the former is less selfish than the latter. One favors the family unit. The other favors the individual. Is 'muddle' a word? ....Yeah, I think you are right that many people aren't that conscious of where they are on the spectrum...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 21, 2014, 03:39:36 AM
As his journey and eventual success in finding a wife, I respect Patagonie's effort in this thread, and his perspective.  Even if I don't always agree with his conclusions.


I just wanted you to know that, Pat.
Thank Boethius

My maxim is : if you want to change your life, start to change yourself.

 I try through this forum to give to men, and especially newbies (there are a good chance  if they come here that it means they have the intent to do something differently) the whole journey of a guy who considered himself as standard seven years ago and got a rocket benefit of all of this.
But it is true that you need to kick you ass.
Many men can assess how they are going to get degrees build a career, a business, manage their wealth, but a lot  have no clues about how to navigate through their emotional and sexual  life. It is not teached at school and the weaknesses coming from a bad navigation can cost them a variety of situations : sorrow, depression, bankruptcy, addictions, jail, suicide, and finally unhapiness over all.
Whoever you are, how aged you are, you can give you a first or a second chance. A person i know had been really happy and peaceful five years before his death. That is the most important : he got it and succeed, even if it was only five years, it doesn't matter.
But there will be no Santa Claus  YOU ARE YOUR OWN SANTA CLAUS, let us believe that he will give you many gifts in your life.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 21, 2014, 05:04:40 AM
My AM husband never said a bad word about AW.

And yet he spent thousands of dollars, countless hours searching, and travelled approximately 10,000 miles to meet you in Russia.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 21, 2014, 05:08:25 AM
When I was searching.....From my experience and reading stories on forums for RW abroad for the last 10 years....It is general advice on RW forums....

Care to tell us why you were searching?  What was it about Russian men that dissatisfied you?  What would make a woman want to leave her country, her family, her friends, her language and her culture all behind?

Of course it might also be interesting to hear from some of the Russian men who rejected you.  As they say, there's always two sides to every story.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: pitbull on November 21, 2014, 06:44:51 AM
Care to tell us why you were searching?  What was it about Russian men that dissatisfied you?  What would make a woman want to leave her country, her family, her friends, her language and her culture all behind?

Of course it might also be interesting to hear from some of the Russian men who rejected you.  As they say, there's always two sides to every story.


Sure....


Most men would not work for marriage for me, Russian or otherwise. I had a very specific set of requirements for a future spouse so I opened my search to men that I share one language with, and that would be English or Russian. I dated Russian men at the same time. I happened to fall in love with my AM husband.


As to the Russian men who rejected me, one thing they will all complain about is that I do not tolerate stupidity  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 21, 2014, 07:00:54 AM

Sure....


Most men would not work for marriage for me, Russian or otherwise. I had a very specific set of requirements for a future spouse so I opened my search to men that I share one language with, and that would be English or Russian. I dated Russian men at the same time. I happened to fall in love with my AM husband.


As to the Russian men who rejected me, one thing they will all complain about is that I do not tolerate stupidity  ;D

Which proves my point.  You're a control freak, and the only way you could find a man submissive enough to want to be with you was to look in the USA. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 21, 2014, 07:05:49 AM
It should be clear for the FSU racers (those who want to live with an FSU women)that  the marriage is a mandatory option, unless they relocate abroad. Or they are extremely lucky to meet a FSU girl having all the right documents to leave with you (generally she is divorced)

For the others i want inform you about this :
 six reasons why men are avoiding marriage, by Helen Smith PH D :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXQf2f2Yxo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXQf2f2Yxo)

We will discuss later about the true benefits about this, but you have to quickly reconsider your romantism blue  pack if  you wanna  hunt locals, just in case that you have been intoxicated with the "be romantic get a marriage, be a nice boy buy her a wedding dress,  to be a real man is to get married, marriage is engagement".

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: pitbull on November 21, 2014, 08:40:03 AM
Which proves my point.  You're a control freak, and the only way you could find a man submissive enough to want to be with you was to look in the USA.
If your definition of "control freak" is "a woman who doesn't want to associate with trailer trash", then so be it.
You are definitely safe from marrying a control freak then  ;D
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 21, 2014, 10:24:54 AM
But there will be no Santa Claus.

What a terrible thing to say.  Ruined my dreams.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on November 21, 2014, 01:55:48 PM
And yet he spent thousands of dollars, countless hours searching, and travelled approximately 10,000 miles to meet you in Russia.   :rolleyes:


Do you mind detailing how many thousands of dollars, countless hours and thousands of miles have you spent on your quest?


Just curious.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on November 21, 2014, 01:59:44 PM
Which proves my point.  You're a control freak, and the only way you could find a man submissive enough to want to be with you was to look in the USA.


Hey AC, so you are arguing that YOU should be the control freak and find a submissive woman?  ;)


Because that statement you made sounded very angry.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 21, 2014, 03:26:27 PM
What a terrible thing to say.  Ruined my dreams.

Yeah, you have been a bad boy all the year ML, so no Santa Claus for you !  8) :D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 21, 2014, 04:03:40 PM
Now it is time to come back to our trip.  :popcorn:

PetitBlonde and i were at a romantic restaurant with of couple of friends of mine a saturday night.
Don't remember exactly what happened but the tuesday she was in my appartment.

Perhaps you have never been in a french condo but there are two types of.
The first looks like any us or british one. Generally it is couples or families who live here.
The singles live in a different one. They have a sloping floor. Generally the bedroom is at the end of the corridor.
To make short we were in my bedroom both, due to the gravity, barely lying down on my bed.

When you usually kiss a woman  the oxygen volume quickly become impoverished for the lady.
So during the same time i tried as possible help her to breathe by keeping some air between her shirt and her C boobs.
Suddenly she stopped me. It was not a no but something like "please wait".
No knowing at this time of the LMR (last minute resistance), i sat up straight and told her something like "we are not in hurry" giving myself some distance from her.
To make short, because elseif i will inherit of a train of lurkers here, finally the dragon sneezed
And she returned to her flat, located two floors below, cause the spirit of the dragon needed some sleep. 

 

 

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 21, 2014, 09:13:40 PM
Because that statement you made sounded very angry.

I'm hardly angry.  It is what it is.  Disgruntled unhappy "feminists" who lash-out at any man who disagrees with their usual diatribes are a dime for every 12 Million.  It takes strength to act like a lady, and weakness to act otherwise. ;D

I've met a lot of lovely FSU ladies over the years, and most are pleasant and happy souls -- witty and to the point yes; angry no.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 21, 2014, 09:20:00 PM
.....on your quest?

There is no quest my friend, there's only one day at a time.  Que sera, sera.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 23, 2014, 05:12:15 AM
Are women starting to complain about men not being to pick them up  ?

http://elitedaily.com/dating/men-pssies-women-need-start-asking-men-dates/746965/ (http://elitedaily.com/dating/men-pssies-women-need-start-asking-men-dates/746965/)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 23, 2014, 08:19:20 AM
Are women starting to complain about men not being to pick them up  ?

http://elitedaily.com/dating/men-pssies-women-need-start-asking-men-dates/746965/ (http://elitedaily.com/dating/men-pssies-women-need-start-asking-men-dates/746965/)

Quite simple.  It's just the chickens coming home to roost.

Today's gals can thank their feminist mothers and grandmothers for what is happening.  Along with society in general which has deemed that males must loose all their aggressive tendencies that have been around for eons and adopt the more 'correct' behavior of females.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 23, 2014, 09:29:31 AM
Quote
Now, the unfortunate paradox for a woman is that she must be the chased and the chaser. She must be the target and the shooter. She must play coy and simultaneously pursue him.


No, the above (from the link) has always been true.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 10:34:00 AM

No, the above (from the link) has always been true.

 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 23, 2014, 10:43:45 AM
It has been.  If you understood women (in general), you would not be single.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 10:49:42 AM
It has been.  If you understood women (in general), you would not be single.

I may be single , but I have plenty of company.  If you understood men better you might be able to grasp a few things; but you don't.  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 23, 2014, 11:19:24 AM
It seems to me that a possible answer depends on three parameters which are :

1/ HB level2/
2/ Culture and level of femininism achieved in the considered country
3/ State of sexual or settle up desire of the woman.

To fix some ideas, a 9's is not likely to chase you, she is likely to deliver one or few IOI to let you continuing to hit her.
In swedish countries men are more and more passive so women are chasing more than before.
If her pussy is boiling or she is under the baby pressure it is likely that she will take some initiatives.



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 23, 2014, 11:20:30 AM
Is it true that NYC is considered to disfavor women, because more women than men ? Just want to know.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 11:27:17 AM
It seems to me that a possible answer depends on three parameters which are :

1/ HB level2/
2/ Culture and level of femininism achieved in the considered country
3/ State of sexual or settle up desire of the woman.

To fix some ideas, a 9's is not likely to chase you, she is likely to deliver one or few IOI to let you continuing to hit her.
In swedish countries men are more and more passive so women are chasing more than before.
If her pussy is boiling or she is under the baby pressure it is likely that she will take some initiatives.

As your video pointed out UT there are specific reasons why men are not chasing many WW.  The exception of course are men who marry their High School or College sweethearts. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 11:31:35 AM
Is it true that NYC is considered to disfavor women, because more women than men ? Just want to know.

I've heard this rumor but don't know if it's true.  I was only in NYC once just passing thru and there certainly were a lot of model looking women.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 12:25:47 PM
Patagonie,

How many years did you spend dating WW before you decided to look to the East?

Had you been married in the West before to a WW and it did not work out?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 23, 2014, 02:38:55 PM
Patagonie,

How many years did you spend dating WW before you decided to look to the East?

Had you been married in the West before to a WW and it did not work out?

We can say that i spend 20 years to date WW and i was never married before (so don't say that i am an angry vindictive macho, i was having no stake around this topic, just i came across, as i have explained previously, thousands of divorcees and singles).
But the game came only the last two years previous my eastern journey. (red pill quickly followed by the game as you will discover trough my incoming posts).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 02:48:21 PM
We can say that i spend 20 years to date WW and i was never married before (so don't say that i am an angry vindictive macho, i was having no stake around this topic, just i came across, as i have explained previously, thousands of divorcees and singles).
But the game came only the last two years previous my eastern journey. (red pill quickly followed by the game as you will discover trough my incoming posts).

During the 20 years that you were dating WW, did you meet even one who you felt was not only a good marriage prospect, but who also wanted to get married with you in particular?

I find it astonishing that in one-tenth of the time, you found and married your wife. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 10:40:28 PM
Are women starting to complain about men not being to pick them up  ?

http://elitedaily.com/dating/men-pssies-women-need-start-asking-men-dates/746965/ (http://elitedaily.com/dating/men-pssies-women-need-start-asking-men-dates/746965/)

My answer to this article is similar to ML's.  WW fought a battle for "equality" and modern young men are giving it to them.  Opening doors, buying a woman drinks, paying for dinner, are all chauvinistic rituals.  More importantly the type of woman who isn't getting the romantic treatment that she allegedly desires is probably not worthy of it. 

Truly feminine women are in very short supply in the West and are snapped up and married. 

The rest are destined to write blogs with a mixed message complaining that men don't behave like they did in the 1950's. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 24, 2014, 12:11:32 PM
During the 20 years that you were dating WW, did you meet even one who you felt was not only a good marriage prospect, but who also wanted to get married with you in particular?

I find it astonishing that in one-tenth of the time, you found and married your wife.

No ones proposed me to get married. If I found some nice girls ? Yes.  Good marriage prospect ? I think so, probably.
But the real decision to find marriage prospects started five years ago only. I decided to go to FSU, but WW were also part of the match when i started.
We can say that before marriage was not in my mind and/or things didn't allow such perspective.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 24, 2014, 01:43:14 PM
No ones proposed me to get married. If I found some nice girls ? Yes.  Good marriage prospect ? I think so, probably.
But the real decision to find marriage prospects started five years ago only. I decided to go to FSU, but WW were also part of the match when i started.
We can say that before marriage was not in my mind and/or things didn't allow such perspective.

Do you think that the difference in Western mentality had something to do with you not proposing to a WW?

So it may be that you were sowing some wild oats and also had no intention of getting married.  This is true of many men from the West in their 20's and early 30's.

At least when you went to the FSU it was clear that it was what the majority of women wanted -- there was never any doubt about it, was there?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on November 24, 2014, 02:02:15 PM
Do you think that the difference in Western mentality had something to do with you not proposing to a WW?

So it may be that you were sowing some wild oats and also had no intention of getting married.  This is true of many men from the West in their 20's and early 30's.

At least when you went to the FSU it was clear that it was what the majority of women wanted -- there was never any doubt about it, was there?


LMFAO


As if the FSU women have a lock on wanting to get married.


Here's some news for you AC.


If and when you find one of these "maidens" don't be surprised that after a year or two, she will "turn" into an American "feminazi." To avoid that, make sure you find a very uneducated village girl that doesn't speak a word of English, and then prohibit her learning the language. Also, make sure she has no means to leave the house and is totally dependent on you.


Failure to comply will be devastating to your "dream."


 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 24, 2014, 02:13:46 PM
As if the FSU women have a lock on wanting to get married.

As usual you're deeply confused my friend.  I am not interested in marriage; I'm only making conversation with the author of the thread.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on November 24, 2014, 02:15:45 PM
As usual you're deeply confused my friend.  I am not interested in marriage; I'm only making conversation with the author of the thread.


Oh, my bad. So you are not looking, eh?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on November 24, 2014, 02:23:11 PM
Those who go to the FSU please recognize that FSUW are not compliant women.  Far from it.  You can get a sense of Russian women in the posts made at RWD over the years.   Frankly, I prefer it. 

The expression I recall from many RW is they wanted a man at their side.  They did not want to be behind a man.   

 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on November 24, 2014, 02:29:37 PM
Maybe Turkey is a better place to find a traditional women.  The Turkish president said today women cannot be treated as equal to men. :o :o :o :o

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30183711

Perhaps he was misquoted.  However, the same man claimed earlier this month that "Muslims had discovered the Americas more than 300 years before Christopher Columbus."   He states that Columbus saw a mosque on a Cuban hill.  If so, such is still 200 years after the Vikings, and a long time after human tribes had migrated from Siberia to the Americas.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/muslims-predate-columbus-in-discovering-america-says-turkish-president-erdogan-9863682.html
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 25, 2014, 01:51:20 AM
Those who go to the FSU please recognize that FSUW are not compliant women.  Far from it.  You can get a sense of Russian women in the posts made at RWD over the years.   Frankly, I prefer it. 

The expression I recall from many RW is they wanted a man at their side.  They did not want to be behind a man.

I don't recall anyone in this thread saying that.  What was said is that they are more serious about getting married.  It was also said that they are slimmer and better looking on average than their WW counterparts, and that a man might be able to marry a younger one.  I recall reading one of your posts where you brag that your wife was a model and that she is much younger than you, so apparently there is some truth in that.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 25, 2014, 02:18:11 AM
Do you think that the difference in Western mentality had something to do with you not proposing to a WW?

So it may be that you were sowing some wild oats and also had no intention of getting married.  This is true of many men from the West in their 20's and early 30's.

At least when you went to the FSU it was clear that it was what the majority of women wanted -- there was never any doubt about it, was there?

No it has nothing to do with the western mentality because i was not ready and i didn't think about marriage.
It is only five years ago that i decided to settle down.
When i decided to settle down i thaugt about a proposition of one of my best wife's friend, a russian woman who had always told me "you should meet eastern women".
After my decision was taken it needed me two months to prepare my first travel. During all my FSU journey i still actively dated locally but more i spent time with FSU women and more i noticed how, in average, WW were shallowed and damaged for a LTR. It doesn't mean that i didn't find some nice woman, but finally among the WW there was always something wrong, or my feelings were not enough strong, or her profile didn't fit what i wanted.

It is difficult to say if what i did answered to what a majority of FSU women wanted because, as Boethius wrote it, the women i met were profiled and filtered.
However with my actual knowledge of the country and his demeanor i would FSU women are more likely to be married, in an outstanding proportion. The man is wanted and the natural answer to welcome a man is to live with him, and as they like actions more than words.
 They would like to know if you are ready to cross the rubicon.
Anyway, technically, you need to get married to live with your woman in your country. Except the case of ML, or if you relocate you cannot avoid this, you need this documents.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on November 25, 2014, 07:36:26 AM
I don't recall anyone in this thread saying that.



Not precisely, yet something I interpret as a  possibility.


                                 2 + 2 = 4

2    ("You're a control freak, and the only way you could find a man submissive enough to want to be with you was to look in the USA")

                                           +

2    (use of the term feminist broadly in a derogatory sense)


                                           =


4    (someone who probably has outdated misconceptions about how to value women, not to the point of oppressing women, yet failing to respect them deeply and fully)

That quite possibly is not your case.  However, the 2 + 2 above are not the intellectual vigor I have seen in some of your other posts.   Also, my statement from yesterday was not directed to you or otherwise I would have quoted you directly.  Yet please do not deny that some men going to the FSU seek not only a pretty, young woman but one who has attributes such as deferring to the man if conflicts can not be resolved.   



Quote
What was said is that they are more serious about getting married.
 

The two dating pools of WW and FSUW differ.  FSUW listed with an international marriage broker can be described as follows:

1) They are a small subset of the entire population of FSUW.

2)  They should indeed be serious about getting married if they elect to take the step of listing themselves.

3)  Above average beauty (otherwise agencies would not list them).   


The WM's dating pool of WW is not such a subset, and individual samples from one should differ from the other.   



Quote
It was also said that they are slimmer and better looking on average than their WW counterparts, and that a man might be able to marry a younger one.

Someone not knowing better would infer this as objectifying if not commoditizing FSUW.   

Quote
I recall reading one of your posts where you brag that your wife was a model and that she is much younger than you, so apparently there is some truth in that.

I am very proud of her.   8) Besides being pretty and young, she revels in her femininity.  I could go on and on, yet keeping to the germane attributes, she is independent, having been self-reliant for much of her adult life.  I really enjoy the aspects of her strong personality that enabled her to accomplish that, and in our marriage I strive to empower her.  I too have a strong personality.  This combination makes for some spirited discussions at times,  :arguing: :D  more than I have ever had with an AW.    Yet it strengthens our relationship.  Life together is wonderful.  :couple:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 25, 2014, 08:03:56 AM
As a member throwed a link nammed "boycott american women" i went to the web to search some  reactions as the site is long bashing towards american women.
One came in defense of men :
"greenderss (http://gravatar.com/greenderss)    September 13, 2013 @ 05:15                  Nobody is trying to marry a submissive Russian or Asian women. You just proving to everyone how clueless you are.  I am Russian myself and most women in Russia are not submissive, but they have more family values than majority of american women. Asian women also are more family oriented and have lowest divorce rates compared to US, with highest divorce rates in the world 89% of which are initiated by women.
 While in the US army most of my friends who married american girls got divorced due to women cheating while they were away on deployments or blowing all their money, when 4-6 of my friends that are married to women abroad are still going healthy. Are you going to tell me these men that served several combat tours have no balls too? They are just going for someone more traditional, more family oriented. Also Russia, Asia does not have OBESITY problems and age/look much better due to avoiding sun, unlike here in america where women stupidly bake in tanning salons and sun despite the fact that it was proven that sun and UVA is one of the biggest reasons of skin aging/cancer.
 Now tell me why are men choosing foreign skinny/healthier girls, with more family values, lower divorce rates VERSUS American women that age badly due to tanning, have obesity problems due to bad diet and initiate 89% of divorces in a county with the highest divorce rate in the world. Obviously, they just want someone to build a healthy lasting family with, someone who regards family with higher value due to culture without having to worry about possible divorces, wife suing the man over and taking all possessions, etc.
On a side note, why are there millions of dating websites targeted at american men seeking foreign women, but almost none targeted at foreign men seeking american women."

interesting opinion about tanned skin (it reminds me my wife, so i guess this post is not a one faked by a man or a WW)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 25, 2014, 09:05:19 AM
Someone not knowing better would infer this as objectifying if not commoditizing FSUW.   

I am very proud of her.   8) Besides being pretty and young, she revels in her femininity.  I could go on and on, yet keeping to the germane attributes, she is independent, having been self-reliant for much of her adult life.  I really enjoy the aspects of her strong personality that enabled her to accomplish that, and in our marriage I strive to empower her.  I too have a strong personality.  This combination makes for some spirited discussions at times,  :arguing: :D  more than I have ever had with an AW.    Yet it strengthens our relationship.  Life together is wonderful.  :couple:


So are you admitting to objectifying and commoditizing your wife?  Because that's what it sounds like.  My experience with models is that most do not have a decent education and most have no career prospects once their modeling career is over. 

Other than that I say congratulations -- as long as you support each other like a team.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 25, 2014, 10:02:46 AM
On a side note, why are there millions of dating websites targeted at american men seeking foreign women, but almost none targeted at foreign men seeking american women."

Well duh!     :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 25, 2014, 10:20:51 AM
Quote
why are there millions of dating websites targeted at american men seeking foreign women, but almost none targeted at foreign men seeking american women.


Because women, generally, would not actively seek foreign mates.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 25, 2014, 10:51:41 AM

Because women, generally, would not actively seek foreign mates.

Are you implying that Russian men would try to date WW if they did?  Because most would not; but those who did might be looking for a green card.  And a small percentage might actually be looking for love.  Same; but in reverse.  Sometimes people just like foreign accents and different ways of looking at things then what they've got at home (is the grass greener, or is it just more interesting?).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 25, 2014, 10:57:59 AM
There have been attempts to start such sites.  All have failed.   The issue is one of supply/demand.  RM need not look abroad, as there are more RW than RM looking for marriage.



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on November 25, 2014, 11:47:20 AM

So are you admitting to objectifying and commoditizing your wife?  Because that's what it sounds like.

Now that is an example of twisting.  Care to explain how you inferred such?

Quote
My experience with models is that most do not have a decent education and most have no career prospects once their modeling career is over.


My experience differs, admittedly limited to one.  To elaborate will be more bragging and I have exceeded my quota.  Suffice it to say at 49 she is not ready to settle down.   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 25, 2014, 11:53:33 AM
Now that is an example of twisting.  Care to explain how you inferred such?
 

My experience differs, admittedly limited to one.  To elaborate will be more bragging and I have exceeded my quota.  Suffice it to say at 49 she is not ready to settle down.

Does she have a job now or are you her sole financial support? 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on November 25, 2014, 02:41:11 PM
Does she have a job now or are you her sole financial support?

What do you think?  What are the constraints most RW face when emigrating to the US?   And what does that have to do with the future? 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 25, 2014, 09:43:47 PM
What do you think?  What are the constraints most RW face when emigrating to the US?   And what does that have to do with the future?

Not criticizing at all here . . . but I need to brag again.

Ochka spent 3 strenuous years as student at University, and now has job as math instructor at major state university.

One year in Intensive English Program and 2 years in Master of Science degree program.

I am super proud of her and her accomplishments.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 25, 2014, 11:56:14 PM
What do you think?  What are the constraints most RW face when emigrating to the US?   And what does that have to do with the future?

I'm really not sure -- please pardon if my question was insensitive.  What I am getting at is I think women feel empowered and happier if they have even a part-time job outside the home.  Each women is different, but in general I think this is true.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 25, 2014, 11:58:13 PM
Not criticizing at all here . . . but I need to brag again.

Ochka spent 3 strenuous years as student at University, and now has job as math instructor at major state university.

One year in Intensive English Program and 2 years in Master of Science degree program.

I am super proud of her and her accomplishments.

Is your Ochka with you in the USA, or is she still back in Ukraine?  Sorry but I don't know much of your story, except I read you were back in Ukraine (working on a house or apartment)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 26, 2014, 12:48:06 AM
RM need not look abroad, as there are more RW than RM looking for marriage.

I believe you.  I also believe the Russian women to be slimmer, a bit more beautiful and better dressed than their WW counterparts.   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 26, 2014, 01:11:48 AM
I don't think they are more beautiful.  Slimmer, yes.  But, their men are significantly slimmer than WM as well.  Better dressed?  I don't know if I would say better, but definitely more neatly dressed (pressed, polished).  However, that is also the case with FSUM who are not drunkards vs WM. (by Western, I mean North American.  FSUW are not slimmer, or more stylish than the Parisian women I saw.  I have been told, by more than one traveler, that Italian women are also very stylish and slim, as are Nordic women).

Looking at external factors in choosing a spouse is not a recipe for a happy marriage. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on November 26, 2014, 01:17:41 AM
But, their men are significantly slimmer than WM as well.

That's false.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 26, 2014, 01:18:52 AM
No, it isn't false. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 26, 2014, 01:47:54 AM
I don't think they are more beautiful.  Slimmer, yes.  But, their men are significantly slimmer than WM as well.  Better dressed?  I don't know if I would say better, but definitely more neatly dressed (pressed, polished).  However, that is also the case with FSUM who are not drunkards vs WM. (by Western, I mean North American.  FSUW are not slimmer, or more stylish than the Parisian women I saw.  I have been told, by more than one traveler, that Italian women are also very stylish and slim, as are Nordic women).

Looking at external factors in choosing a spouse is not a recipe for a happy marriage.
Being french i would give my opinion about the stylish french or italian women (and i spent 7 years in Paris not so far from Champs Elysées and all  HQ ). It is a myth.
I think that in any big city all around the business districts you have a bunch of stylish men and stylish women due to their occupation. More generally when you are far from these business district you will get the real picture of how stylish is a country. It will give you the true colors of how stylish or fashion a country is.
France is the country birth of many fashion talents and companies (i saw few  months ago the fashion museum in Paris beside the art modern museum) but haute couture is quite confidential. A mode country doesn't necessary mean that their inhabitants are fashion or stylish.
For what i can tell you in my work nowadays (we are far from any business district) is that no more than few percent, man as  women, are stylish.
So in Ukraine, compare to France, a contest is not needed to say that ukrainian women are absolutely more stylish than french women in average. And i am sorry to tell you that, except business men, ukrainian men are a nightmare about fashion. At the best they are groomed with casual clothes (perhaps they think that is stylish or fashion clothes but it is not)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 26, 2014, 01:53:44 AM
Patagonie, I have been to Paris, walked all around, took the metro from one end of the city to the other, stayed in the 18th arrondissement, in a non tourist neighbourhood, and these are my observations.  I have never seen as many beautiful, stylish, and slender women as I did in Paris.  The men, on their way to work, were breathtaking. 

UW, on the whole, dress like tarts.  It is what I describe as a flower for a bee.  As a bee, you perhaps find it more appealing than do I.  ;)   In North America, women cannot dress as they do in Ukraine, as they'd be harassed continuously. 

UM who drink do not dress well.  Most men after work are dressed casually, but again, when you see men going to work, they are generally more neatly dressed than are men in North America, or at least, in the parts of North America I've been in, which is pretty much everywhere but the US East coast.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 26, 2014, 02:07:45 AM
About BMI a difference has to be done.
Italy, France, Belgium are the slimmest.
USA, England got a higher BMI.
I think that Ukrainian men are close to the best european, but slimmer than us/englank guys.
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/File:Overweight_and_obesity_-_women,_2008.png (http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/File:Overweight_and_obesity_-_women,_2008.png)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6148456.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6148456.stm)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 26, 2014, 02:15:46 AM
(http://www.mostbeautifulman.com/athletes/sidneycrosby/images/pic03.jpg)
His BMI at the time this photo was taken was 27.9, making him significantly overweight.

BMI doesn't take into account different body types, particularly with muscle mass.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 26, 2014, 04:11:26 AM
(http://www.mostbeautifulman.com/athletes/sidneycrosby/images/pic03.jpg)

 

To tell you the truth BO, as you show a photo of me to the forum, i would like to tell you that i never felt overweighed ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 26, 2014, 11:06:55 AM
Is your Ochka with you in the USA, or is she still back in Ukraine?  Sorry but I don't know much of your story, except I read you were back in Ukraine (working on a house or apartment)

You can read my story in the thread in this TR subsection.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 27, 2014, 08:19:08 AM
Red pill : how did it take place

So when i wake up in the morning i heard my phone ringing. An
 incoming SMS was telling me : "hello darling, have a nice day !"

I put it in my pocket and started to smile.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 01, 2014, 04:11:23 AM
So i came into a new relationship very easily and without any plan or fantasm about this woman.
She introduced me to her two daughters, one was 16 and the oldest was 19.
The  boyfriend of the elder was a little older than her but very mature for his age, already making a living.
Few time after she also introduced me to her parents.

So all was very comfortable because it was very easy to spend time together and also to have some  private time.
I don't know why but i fall in love with her and the best expression to describe what whas happening was : to fly. I flied with this woman.
Believe me it didn't happend a lot of time. It can happen few minutes or few hours but rarely for days or for weeks. We were a family, but better than a family, without the usual constraints, finally for the best.
Due to my high sportive condition  i could do anything that the young people would do and we were also having an interesting intellectual exchange all of us. The older daughter i guessed, was more than friendly attracted to me, and looking back with my today's knowledge i can confirm it.
I was not only flying, i felt myself very strong and my thinking was that i was the exact guy i wanted to be. I, for the first time of my life, was at a level never previously achieved, enjoyed a family life.
To be the exact guy you want to be gives you no uncertanity on your identity, no headache about what your actions can or could breed. You mainly enjoy the moment and it gives you a lot of strengh.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Photo Guy on December 01, 2014, 11:04:29 AM
Thank you for this heart-warming story.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: fathertime on December 01, 2014, 12:13:36 PM
So i came into a new relationship very easily and without any plan or fantasm about this woman.
She introduced me to her two daughters, one was 16 and the oldest was 19.
The  boyfriend of the elder was a little older than her but very mature for his age, already making a living.
Few time after she also introduced me to her parents.

So all was very comfortable because it was very easy to spend time together and also to have some  private time.
I don't know why but i fall in love with her and the best expression to describe what whas happening was : to fly. I flied with this woman.
Believe me it didn't happend a lot of time. It can happen few minutes or few hours but rarely for days or for weeks. We were a family, but better than a family, without the usual constraints, finally for the best.
Due to my high sportive condition  i could do anything that the young people would do and we were also having an interesting intellectual exchange all of us. The older daughter i guessed, was more than friendly attracted to me, and looking back with my today's knowledge i can confirm it.

Your writing style is a little different so I may have misunderstood but did you say your wife's 19 year old daughter was interested in you as well?
Fathertime!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 01, 2014, 12:28:42 PM
Your writing style is a little different so I may have misunderstood but did you say your wife's 19 year old daughter was interested in you as well?
Fathertime!
Correct, attraction is not a choice.  :P
But nothing never happened  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on December 01, 2014, 12:55:27 PM
Correct, attraction is not a choice.  :P
But nothing never happened  ;D

However I don't think that the 19 year old daughter was his wife's daughter, but that of a GF.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on December 01, 2014, 04:47:18 PM
However I don't think that the 19 year old daughter was his wife's daughter, but that of a GF.

Yes - his wife's ONLY daughter is MUCH younger than that!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: fathertime on December 01, 2014, 05:26:02 PM
Correct, attraction is not a choice.  :P
But nothing never happened  ;D


However I don't think that the 19 year old daughter was his wife's daughter, but that of a GF.
Yes - his wife's ONLY daughter is MUCH younger than that!


Gotcha, I was trying to just get a gist of what was going on...between these 3 posts I have a better understanding...carry on now!


Fathertime!   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 02, 2014, 01:40:16 AM
AC 18/20
AnotherWiki 18/20
FatherTime 7/20

 8)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 02, 2014, 09:58:22 AM
The sky was clear,
The sun was high
The air was pure

Just

Just few weeks later i found a guy on a motorbike of her age waiting in front of her window. When she came in her appartment at the same time she seemed to be disturbed, so much that she started to smoke, which she was not do it often.
She was holding a letter in her hand.
"It is my ex husband (but still not divorced)"

The day after a letter of 10 pages was on her desk but all nervousness had gone and she was exactly the same person  i used to see every day. I found quite curious that a guy could  write a 10 pages letter to a person who had left him almost four years before.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on December 02, 2014, 10:20:16 AM
AC 18/20
AnotherWiki 18/20
FatherTime 7/20

 8)

Another Wiki?   ;)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 02, 2014, 10:21:10 AM
Yes we miss another wiki here  :D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 02, 2014, 10:22:29 AM
Hoping that he will forgive me the typo
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 03, 2014, 04:31:04 AM
Recently a guy was writing in a post something like : in relationships, just be yourself and it will be just fine.

This is exactly what a lot of female friends would  tell you to help you, however such advices rarely help in the dating field, except if you are a natural gamer. Be yourself has a thick perfurme of blue pill, just to prevent the maleness which had been largely castrated during the last three decades to recover from.

My question is : why firms are investing so much money in training like :
Related to our topics i have sorted from just a 2013 IT training catalog.
Weirdly a lot of training are just proving the opposite : don't exactly stay the same.

(i am not ticking off all training, it will be too long)

Personal Development

Win procrastination
Keys for personal adaptation
Improve your behaviour flexibility
Be actor or your own development
Take a decision and how to sell it
Prepare yourself to work abroad
Strenghten your self  confidence
Improve your charism and your self confidence with theater role (AT)
Control your emotions to be more efficient
Know of to step back and when to let it go
Mental card, fondamentals
Mental card, advanced
Improve your professional comfort
Optimize your communication
Passive listening for better communication
Passive listening and questionning advanced
Develop a genuine and constructive communication
Know how to improvise
Develop constructive non hierarchical relationship s
Be successful with intercultural relationships
Negiociate with success level 1
Negiociate with success level 2
Efficient communication by email
Improve your voice

Marketing and communication :
Master your interview

Commercial and customer relations
Transactionnal analysis
Improve your voice to better sales
Be comfortable during first contact
Listen to better sales
Dealing with objections
Sell on phone
Dealing with difficult customers
Win back lost or inactives customers
Improving your writing to reinforce the customer relations
Improve customer satisfaction.
Be successful with customers
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on December 04, 2014, 05:28:02 PM
Hoping that he will forgive me the typo

You're forgiven  :D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 08, 2014, 02:16:12 AM
Ptite blond in the vicinity :

After two months ofa  nice relationship with a high harmony between all of us i saw her coming one evening and going around circles in my kitchen and started to tell me ....
"you know what Pat, i want to tell you that i am not in love with you"

This moment was surrealist. It was exactly like if you were knowing a UK gir for two months, all her family speaks english, she has never learnt any other language and suddenly she starts to speak greek for two minutes.

I couldn't believe my ears so after a short moment i told her : "ok if you are not, so you can stay i at home and it will be done".

The following morning she sent me a SMS "hello darling" and every hours and days were exactly the same as the previous ones, except two minutes of greek language.

I have heard so many western girls making problems of themselves, to rack their brains that i quickly  stopped to take care about this incident.

My mistake
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on December 08, 2014, 01:34:09 PM
Ptite blond in the vicinity :

After two months ofa  nice relationship with a high harmony between all of us i saw her coming one evening and going around circles in my kitchen and started to tell me ....
"you know what Pat, i want to tell you that i am not in love with you"

This moment was surrealist. It was exactly like if you were knowing a UK gir for two months, all her family speaks english, she has never learnt any other language and suddenly she starts to speak greek for two minutes.

I couldn't believe my ears so after a short moment i told her : "ok if you are not, so you can stay i at home and it will be done".

The following morning she sent me a SMS "hello darling" and every hours and days were exactly the same as the previous ones, except two minutes of greek language.

I have heard so many western girls making problems of themselves, to rack their brains that i quickly  stopped to take care about this incident.

My mistake

It's the normal schizophrenia of available Western women.  Nothing more, nothing less.
Title: the wussy land
Post by: Patagonie on December 09, 2014, 06:38:23 AM
Our family had gone in the city for a big celebration  well attended because we have usually around one million of people for this event.
As it was a little cold we jumped into a thai restaurant.
It was quite busy but there were still two or three tables free.

After we were seated a young lady, with three boys, all around 20 and 25 entered. She was a quite good looking blond, i gave her a 7+. Her suitors were not so bad, one was however a little overweighted, but as he was young with a nice figure, it disadvantaged him  not so much.

You have to understand that from now it is not me who is telling you a story :
it is my wife.
In fact i was showing my  back to them so it was my wife who told me all.
"All guys seem annoyed but they try to joke and to smile to her constantly"
"She is now close to the guy beside her playing both with his phone, so the two others don't know how to do"
"The fattest guy is more and more nervous"
" The fattest guy is biting his nails"
"The guy beside the fattest guy try to discuss with him"
"The fattest looks very nervous o my god"
Finally the fattest one and the guy beside him stood up to go outside to smoke, the two others decided to follow and all of them went to the sidewalk. 
The cherry on the cake soon, i saw it because i was almost turned front to the entriance door :
When she finished her cigaret, she left and was the first to return inside, ALL of them following without any delay like perfect soldiers of the national guard, closely grouped behing her.
I couldn't believe it.

The wussy land, surrounded by the wussies !
And to tell you more few days before we were seing a movie at home. It was about a couple in a french island and the guy was the witness of a murder. Just the problem is that on this isand to shut up is the rule. So the film was quite slow, the guy was seek, couldn't sleep after the murder, don't call the police, couldn't tell to her GF, don't know what to do .... My wife started to be so tired et so nervous  of this movie  that she left the living room beofre the end.

So three guys one girl.
I can tell you the script.

Calling Peter, Peter on message box, no message left.
John do you want to see the celebration with me ? John (getting a hard dick instantly) yes that is a nice idea when and wher  can we meet ? .............
John calling his buddy Tom "Tom sorry i cannot see you because you know this hot chick i met last time at Ninkasi, she invited me to the celebration. Tom "good luck my friend".
Girl calling Brad "hey Brad what do you do for the celebration". Brad normally plays hockey at the end of the afternoon. "Nothing special, why ?" "i would like to go to the celebration, what do you think ?" "that's a nice idea when and wher can weet ?"
Girl calling Chris, Chris already on line, hang up.
Girl calling Philipp, "how are you Philipp ?" "Nice, please to hear you", "What do you think if we can meet to see the celebration, would you like to come ?" "Philip, nothing to do. "Yes I ..........................."
And that is done.

Ukrainian version :
the guy who believe that he will date the girl alone (notice that at any time in the  she gave information about her being alone or not, and notice that no guy is asking informations on this topic (nice western educated men would not take the risk to upset, even one second, a lady. He would not take the risk in fact to loose her) and see already an other guyat the meeting  has a lot of chances to tell her fuck you, and if not it has some chance to finish in a fight.
That is simple.

So the inhabitants of the wussy land spent an upsetting and annoying evening hiding their flat dick below the table while the girl was thrilled because it is always an ego boost to have three suitors on your feet following you like a herd of sheeps.
During this time she had a total control and can choose the one she likes, make any test she wants (my wife called them, both of three the rabbits ten time at least). However my bet is that none of them would go along with her, to their final indignation
We left before them but i would not be surprised if the rabbits would have paid her the diner.

So this special celebration,
 far to be the pussy paradise for our three rabbits
was the wussy land, camp one. 
Title: Wussy land : retro analysis
Post by: Patagonie on December 09, 2014, 06:58:07 AM
So guys,

Allow me to do the retro analysis of such type of event, which happens more often than you can think.
It will be a mix of woman (we have a lot to get and learn from them) and game.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 11, 2014, 04:39:12 AM
So when a woman you don't know so much call you or contact you the best is to copy them :

--> they ask questions.
 Men ask question about meeting's organization.
 Women ask question  about who will be at the meeting, or why the meeting is happening.

So do the same as they do.
But the most important is not about questionning, it is about to have the exact frame which will lead you automatically to act in the right way, which will be far from the wussy land.

If you ask you  constantly the question "Is it worth to go to this meeting, is it worth for me ?" and you give a real an deep questionning through the terms of your own satisfaction, needs and self esteem,  you will never have to learn some canned questions (if she says this i have to ask this ..... If she says B/ i have to answer F....), the ones you are generally forgetting through stress and fatigue.

So is it worth for me/for you  to go ? (if you know that she has invited Peter, Brad, Tom, Philipp and you are not yet friends, buddys from the university ... In fact you almost don't know this chick)

Damned No, an NO and no, no way !

But if she lets you know that you will be only two, so yes it is worth.
If not it  means that your value is very low, it means that you have no value, ESPECIALLY if you play her game, because have you noticed that SHE is now writing the rules of the game.

What is your interest, even if she is good looking gril (7+), your interest is not to enter in a box or any situation where your value would be immensely deflated. I know no women dressing for an elegant party who is ready to play a game where they would have to crawl with their cocktail dress. They wouldn't play, purely ans simply. They would not put them in a situation where they become a fool.

In the field it will be something like this :
Hey John, how are you doing ?
I am fine  and you ?
All is ok, i was thinking about this celebration tuesday
Yes it is a very beautiful spectacle, but very crownded (let her coming)
Yes i would like to go, would you come with me ?
Why not and who else is coming, Have you gather a group ?
Yes i called some people
And who are they (don't step in her trick), someone i know ?
I think bla bla
So if you don't feel it just say, that is very nice but i have to call some friends first (your friends are more important than a chick that you don't know so much - that is the frame, this is exactly the same frame that girls apply to guys they almost don't know  have you noticed ?)  because they have proposed me to go few days ago.

Please note how you can rebound the day after by saying "My friends have their car broken so they cannot come, so i will be free finally" (even if your friends don't have their car broken)

At this point you don't even need to call her back if your decision is to not to go. She will understand that you are busy with your friends and her value is not so high, which is exactly her true value as soon as she tries to push you to play the wussy role.

However sometimes you cannot avoid to be in such depleasant situation, because it is life, because the girl hided her game to trap you or you didn't get the right information to assess in advance that it was a trap.

In this case it is simple :
If you are the first and the girl don't want to move it means that you have to wait some other people. When all people are here and you understand that it is a trap just start to walk with the group and open your phone and do like you are getting a call.
Hey, what are you saying aunt Anna ? Grandmum falled in the stairs ! How my god ! Use a loud voice and all will be fine. Tell them that GrandMam has fallen in the stairs and leave.
If you meet the group one hour later just say that you have gone but she was finally not seriously injured.
These type of shit excuses they use it all the time, don't be shocked this is a western women language.
You don't need to fight with the othes guys or to call her names. This is the soft version of how to get out of this type of trap.
You don't let her to make a puppet of yourself, and if others guy do it accordingly it is her who  spends an annoying evening.

I cannot imagine some ukrainians women doing this : i think they would be in trouble very quickly.

The game version is quite different : you over game through the group all others guys who are generally AFC/nice guys to play the difference and attract her. That works, i played it  twice times.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 14, 2014, 01:21:22 PM
This is the beginning of the introduction of an article written by a woman from Canada :

INTRODUCTION    One's first impression upon visiting the mail-order bride ("MOB") web sites and reading the catalogues is of personal ads for singles in the age of globalization. (2) The growing solitude of adults who have gone through difficult relationships, separations, and divorces--coupled with the difficulty of meeting compatible, available people--leads many to turn to specialized introduction services in the hope of meeting a soulmate. Today this phenomenon has assumed global proportions. The global quest for romance has been made possible by the growing accessibility of information technology networks and international travel. In this theoretical scenario, the ultimate goal is an intercultural marriage, with the objective of enabling the woman to immigrate.
  While the first impression offered by international introduction agencies corresponds to the way the mail-order bride agencies and the First World husbands describe themselves, this first impression does not take into consideration the point of view of women. (3) Indeed, anti-feminist backlash is a recurring theme on the mail-order bride web sites. (4) A closer look at the mail-order bride practices of these introduction agencies--which I will also refer to as MOB practices--reveals multi-dimensional and interrelated inequities that place the bride in a position of dependence in relation to her First World husband. The true result of the MOB practice is a flourishing and lucrative industry involving the trafficking of women from the Third World to husbands in the First World.
  The mail-order bride trade feeds on highly unrealistic and contradictory expectations about marital relationships. The First World husband is typically looking for a docile, submissive, and subservient bride whom he can control and dominate. (5) He seeks a MOB specifically because of sexist sentiments, and his hatred and fear of the feminist movement. He rejects women of his own nationality as wives because he considers them to be aggressive and egotistical. He believes they are too ambitious, make excessive demands in marriage, and have expectations of equality with their husbands. He criticizes the desire of women for autonomy, independence, and equality. The bride, on the other hand, desires an American of the Hollywood star variety: a good, respectful, faithful, and loving husband and father. (6) The ideal type is white, tall, and has blue eyes. This trade is founded on the crudest of stereotypes, where the merchants of dreams--the MOB agencies--get rich not only at the expense of the First World husbands, but above all at the expense of the brides.



Lets me know your comments and you do feel after reading it ? How do you feel comparing this with your experience ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 01:32:00 PM
Reading forums such as this one, and, presumably, others in a similar vein, I can see how she came to that conclusion when it comes to men.  That type of statement is common on forums, though there are men who reject it.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Slumba on December 14, 2014, 01:43:33 PM
?
This is the beginning of the introduction of an article written by a woman from Canada :

(snipped)

Lets me know your comments and you do feel after reading it ? How do you feel comparing this to your experience ?

Some is accurate. 

Simple reality is, a white Western European/Canadian/American guy, can go anywhere in the world and be seen as a good man , a "high value" man, that most women will have some interest in.  This includes of course, Asia, India, as well as FSU.

Perhaps the writer should ask:

"OK, white European guys are seen as high value for marriage.  But why are white European women, not seen as high value for marriage?"
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 01:51:05 PM
Since the majority of European white women are married, or have been married, your speculation on value is misplaced.

Quote
Simple reality is, a white Western European/Canadian/American guy, can go anywhere in the world and be seen as a good man , a "high value" man, that most women will have some interest in.  This includes of course, Asia, India, as well as FSU.

This has nothing to do with the man or his white skin, but rather, economics and perhaps, social/political stability in the man's country of origin.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Slumba on December 14, 2014, 02:00:00 PM
Since the majority of European white women are married, or have been married, your speculation on value is misplaced.

This has nothing to do with the man or his white skin, but rather, economics and perhaps, social/political stability in the man's country of origin.

Sorry I wasn't specific; I meant, "woman going outside her own country" ; as in , a woman from Western Europe going to China, India, that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 02:01:37 PM
Women aren't made/programmed that way.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 15, 2014, 03:33:31 AM
I have decided to rewrite the introduction trying to deliver a more neutral point of view :
 
INTRODUCTION    One's first impression upon visiting the mail-order bride ("MOB") web sites and reading the catalogues is of personal ads for singles in the age of globalization. (2) The growing solitude of adults who have gone through difficult relationships, separations, and divorces--coupled with the difficulty of meeting compatible, available people--leads many to turn to specialized introduction services in the hope of meeting a soulmate. Today this phenomenon has assumed global proportions. The global quest for romance has been made possible by the growing accessibility of information technology networks and international travel. In this theoretical scenario, the ultimate goal is an intercultural marriage, with the objective of enabling the woman to immigrate.

While the first impression offered by international introduction agencies corresponds to the way the mail-order bride agencies and seeking men describe themselves, women here play a very passive role. A recurring theme on the mail-order bride web sites is the opposition curently made between american women and the women they advertise.
A closer look at the mail-order bride practices of these introduction agencies--which I will also refer to as MOB practices--reveals differents points of view. As a western woman it is seen as a multi-dimensional and interrelated inequities that place the bride in a position of dependence in relation to her First World husband. As men it is seen as a logical answer to a dating dynamic which clearly disadvantages him in his society and castrates him as male. Some others would say that the true motive are economics and some would say that is about demographics, a third party might highlight that two cultural genders disparities can gather for the best.

The true result of the MOB practice is a flourishing and lucrative industry. Again, for western women it is understood as  a trafficking of women from the Third World to husbands in the First World. For men it is the hope to find a better, nurturing partner. At the end the sad reality of the MOB is that the total number of people married thanks to the MOB is very low compared to the effort done by seekers.

  The mail-order bride trade feeds on  realistic expectations in term of human beings about marital relationships.
Western women consider that The First World husband is typically looking for a docile, submissive, and subservient bride whom he can control and dominate.  He seeks a MOB specifically because of sexist sentiments, and his hatred and fear of the feminist movement. He rejects women of his own nationality as wives because he considers them to be aggressive and egotistical. He believes they are too ambitious, make excessive demands in marriage, and have expectations of equality with their husbands. He criticizes the desire of women for autonomy, independence, and equality.
Western men consider that the missing part of local women can be completed abroad. They can find beauty, education, feminine and trustable partners abroad and therefore they can stop to lower their standard which only lower themselves at the end. They try to flee the endless confrontation with women in theirs countries  to reach a more peaceful daily life with the partner they want to love. They want to renew with gender complementarity, and to find the sense to be the most important thing in woman's eye, not for one week, but for ever.

The bride, on the other hand, desires an American of the Hollywood star variety: a good, respectful, faithful, and loving husband and father. (6) The ideal type is white, tall, and has blue eyes.
For western women this trade is founded on the crudest of stereotypes, where the merchants of dreams
Men on an other hand truly believe that a good, respectful, faithful, loving husband and father is a a winner and they are thrilled to discover how valuable they are abroad when they can offer such ideal. If this is a Hollywood variety they consider that many of them are truly Hollywood stars.
the MOB agencies--get rich not only at the expense of the First World husbands, but also all at the expense of the brides, by generally preventing them to meet and by wrecking any rising international relationships reasons.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on December 15, 2014, 08:24:52 AM
Quote
Western women consider that The First World husband is typically looking for a docile, submissive, and subservient bride whom he can control and dominate.
Too broad. 

The problem with you guys is ego.  Most WW never give a thought to men who seek foreign wives.  Most (note, not all, most) of those that do, I'm afraid, would overwhelmingly apply the term "loser" to such men.

So, I reject the neutrality of the above statement in your post.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 15, 2014, 09:33:21 AM
Too broad. 

The problem with you guys is ego.  Most WW never give a thought to men who seek foreign wives.  Most (note, not all, most) of those that do, I'm afraid, would overwhelmingly apply the term "loser" to such men.

So, I reject the neutrality of the above statement in your post.
Correct, i should have written
Most western women consider that The First World husband is typically looking for a docile, submissive, and subservient bride whom he can control and dominate.  He seeks a MOB specifically because of sexist sentiments, and his hatred and fear of the feminist movement. He rejects women of his own nationality as wives because he considers them to be aggressive and egotistical. He believes they are too ambitious, make excessive demands in marriage, and have expectations of equality with their husbands. He criticizes the desire of women for autonomy, independence, and equality. To summarize they often think that those men are "losers".
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on December 15, 2014, 09:40:40 AM
Still too broad.

Try - "Most Western women have no interest in the so called "MOB" topic. Some of those that do may believe a Western man is seeking a docile, etc."

Go down your street and ask a dozen women randomly if they have ever thought about the so called "MOB" business.  Most will look at you as if you are insane.

Most people worry more about their own lives, and don't give a hoot what other people are doing in theirs.
 
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: fathertime on December 15, 2014, 10:32:42 AM
Correct, i should have written
Most western women consider that The First World husband is typically looking for a docile, submissive, and subservient bride whom he can control and dominate.  He seeks a MOB specifically because of sexist sentiments, and his hatred and fear of the feminist movement. He rejects women of his own nationality as wives because he considers them to be aggressive and egotistical. He believes they are too ambitious, make excessive demands in marriage, and have expectations of equality with their husbands. He criticizes the desire of women for autonomy, independence, and equality. To summarize they often think that those men are "losers".


I don't who really cares about a bunch of slightly older guys going abroad and finding wives.   I think among the people I know, people get it.  I think that people outside my circle of friends probably have a negative viewpoint, and I'm ok with that.  I (and I would hope most others) have nothing to prove to anyone.    I personally find marriage to be a difficult endeavor in that it goes against my desire for independence so for me to get married it has to be one helluva good looking woman with most of the personality traits that I like! the women in America that would work for me, generally wouldn't be interested, and I can understand why.  They have better younger options, so I say good for them!






Fathertime!   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: AC on December 15, 2014, 01:14:24 PM
Correct, i should have written
Most western women consider that The First World husband is typically looking for a docile, submissive, and subservient bride whom he can control and dominate.  He seeks a MOB specifically because of sexist sentiments, and his hatred and fear of the feminist movement. He rejects women of his own nationality as wives because he considers them to be aggressive and egotistical. He believes they are too ambitious, make excessive demands in marriage, and have expectations of equality with their husbands. He criticizes the desire of women for autonomy, independence, and equality. To summarize they often think that those men are "losers".


This is clearly the narrative that WW want to tell about this industry, because they do not want to acknowledge that they themselves are lacking, and that they themselves do not want to step up their game.  So they engage in the above narrative, which is obviously an attempt at the usual "feminist shaming".

To put it more concisely I will use an anology that Mark Davis uses on his website, and that is that modern marriage to a WW is more of a negotiation; in fact you have not heard the type of words they use except in a business negotiation.  "You have to give 50/50" or you should be willing to give 100% of yourself and hope that your partner does the same".

In fact what is sorely missing (and I got this from Mark Davis's website) is the concept of finding your other half.  When you deal with a woman from a society who believes in her other half, than it's not this nit-picking "you aren't doing this, so I will do this to punish you" (for example withholding sex as a punishment and a means to modify behavior).  Instead it's based on a position of real love -- the woman (or the man) who believes in finding their other half says "why would I do anything to hurt my other half?" and the whole situation is completely different.

You can see from the example Patagonie uses above that it was nothing but the usual game, the usual negotiation with the girl he used as an example who had other guys with her on the same "date".  And you can see the usual feministic type of response to defend the feministic position.


http://dreamconnections.com/relationships/
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 15, 2014, 01:36:36 PM
Still too broad.

Try - "Most Western women have no interest in the so called "MOB" topic. Some of those that do may believe a Western man is seeking a docile, etc."

Go down your street and ask a dozen women randomly if they have ever thought about the so called "MOB" business.  Most will look at you as if you are insane.

Most people worry more about their own lives, and don't give a hoot what other people are doing in theirs.

You go too far, i read again the corrected version i wrote
In fact each time that the word "women"  is  used, and equal word "men" is used. It respects the original spirit given by the canadian author who was globalizing, as i found it intellectualy dishonist i split the text to allow two perspectives, as possible.

Sometimes i use the word "western"  to clarify  in which camp are belonging those men or women (avoiding the confusion between brides and the western women especially).

You have to remember the context : the introducion was written by a women interested in MOB and genders.

To make the original version more acceptable i put in perspective the voice of men and try to soften her voice, which is very feminist oriented.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 15, 2014, 01:41:34 PM

This is clearly the narrative that WW want to tell about this industry, because they do not want to acknowledge that they themselves are lacking, and that they themselves do not want to step up their game.  So they engage in the above narrative, which is obviously an attempt at the usual "feminist shaming".

It is clear that there is a total deny and an  impossibility for some to open their mind (NB : all women don't belong to this category), the formula which can summarize it : it is only men's fault, they are always responsible. A message who have frayed now since five decades

To put it more concisely I will use an anology that Mark Davis uses on his website, and that is that modern marriage to a WW is more of a negotiation; in fact you have not heard the type of words they use except in a business negotiation.  "You have to give 50/50" or you should be willing to give 100% of yourself and hope that your partner does the same".

In fact what is sorely missing (and I got this from Mark Davis's website) is the concept of finding your other half.  When you deal with a woman from a society who believes in her other half, than it's not this nit-picking "you aren't doing this, so I will do this to punish you" (for example withholding sex as a punishment and a means to modify behavior).  Instead it's based on a position of real love -- the woman (or the man) who believes in finding their other half says "why would I do anything to hurt my other half?" and the whole situation is completely different.

You can see from the example Patagonie uses above that it was nothing but the usual game, the usual negotiation with the girl he used as an example who had other guys with her on the same "date".  And you can see the usual feministic type of response to defend the feministic position.


http://dreamconnections.com/relationships/ (http://dreamconnections.com/relationships/)

Interesting, i need to dig this one.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Photo Guy on December 15, 2014, 01:52:44 PM
One of the best things about finding a wife in the FSU, is their lack of a feminist background. This doesn't mean that they are completely devoid of all feminist 'values'. For example, the idea of equal pay for equal work is not shunned. FSUW are generally NOT subservient on a personal level in a marriage. Unlike many western women, they are not all about suppressing their femininity or attaining a masculine role. This is an over-simplification, but you get it. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 15, 2014, 03:16:26 PM
I tried to build a more constructive text than the original one. However if i would have been more critical, i would have written something like that :
This is the beginning of the introduction of an article written by a woman from Canada :

INTRODUCTION    One's first impression upon visiting the mail-order bride ("MOB") web sites and reading the catalogues is of personal ads for singles in the age of globalization. (2) The growing solitude of adults who have gone through difficult relationships, separations, and divorces--coupled with the difficulty of meeting compatible, available people--leads many to turn to specialized introduction services in the hope of meeting a soulmate. Today this phenomenon has assumed global proportions. The global quest for romance has been made possible by the growing accessibility of information technology networks and international travel. In this theoretical scenario, the ultimate goal is an intercultural marriage, with the objective of enabling the woman to immigrate.
  While the first impression offered by international introduction agencies corresponds to the way the mail-order bride agencies and the First World husbands (Term quite insulting for all eastern women showing that they are inferior, consequently it only means that they belong to third world countries. Try to explain to any women of this countries that they live in third countries, make the test ! It is just proven here that the author know not a lot about those dynamics)
describe themselves, this first impression does not take into consideration the point of view of women (the point of view of who ? Point of view of feminists ? Why the society needs to give this exorbitant power to those people ? Because they own the god truth ? And why are they concerned by such international meeting ?  The point of view of women,   does she means the potential eastern brides ? But those women don't need to express opinion and starts to have this endless western blabla, they just want to start a new life for the ones who join, the others being fake agencies profiles)  Indeed, anti-feminist backlash is a recurring theme on the mail-order bride web sites (and here no alarm about how men are reacting ? Perhaps the feel attacked ? No ? )  . (4) A closer look at the mail-order bride practices of these introduction agencies--which I will also refer to as MOB practices--reveals multi-dimensional and interrelated inequities that place the bride in a position of dependence (please take note of how all human relationships are just about a balance of power between genders. In reality for the men the first dependence is on the MOB with financial, emotional and physical risks to be abused. They are also responsible during the K1. For the eastern women the dependence is likely to happen during the first two first years after her relocation, it can also happens to women who have men who prevent them to work) to her First World husband. The true result of the MOB practice is a flourishing and lucrative industry involving the trafficking of women from the Third World to husbands in the First World. (Now we go to the basement, before it was about balance of power, now it is trafficking women, slaves, children, pimping. She misses the point as pimping rarely uses the marriage canal to enslave women)
  The mail-order bride trade feeds on highly unrealistic and contradictory expectations about marital relationships (so is it unrealistic and contradictory to want to be married ? If it is about finding a (read the following sentences) so yes it is unrealistic because few of these women are existing, especially in FSU). The First World husband is typically looking for a docile, submissive, and subservient bride whom he can control and dominate. (5) He seeks a MOB specifically because of sexist sentiments, and his hatred and fear of the feminist movement. He rejects women of his own nationality as wives because he considers them to be aggressive and egotistical (the verbal diarrhea continues). He believes they are too ambitious, make excessive demands in marriage, and have expectations of equality with their husbands. He criticizes the desire of women for autonomy, independence, and equality. The bride, on the other hand, desires an American of the Hollywood star variety: a good, respectful, faithful, and loving husband and father. (6) The ideal type is white, tall, and has blue eyes. This trade is founded on the crudest of stereotypes, where the merchants of dreams--the MOB agencies--get rich not only at the expense of the First World husbands, but above all at the expense of the brides. (ok i stop to comment because this so out of the reality ....)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 15, 2014, 03:32:33 PM
One of the best things about finding a wife in the FSU, is their lack of a feminist background. This doesn't mean that they are completely devoid of all feminist 'values'. For example, the idea of equal pay for equal work is not shunned. FSUW are generally NOT subservient on a personal level in a marriage. Unlike many western women, they are not all about suppressing their femininity or attaining a masculine role. This is an over-simplification, but you get it.
+1
I never  felt, even one second, through all the time i spent with them, to  be with a subservient FSU woman.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on December 15, 2014, 03:37:28 PM

I don't who really cares about a bunch of slightly older guys going abroad and finding wives.   I think among the people I know, people get it.  I think that people outside my circle of friends probably have a negative viewpoint, and I'm ok with that.




Liar. If it didn't bother you, you would not have brought it up.  :P


I (and I would hope most others) have nothing to prove to anyone.   




Riiight. That's why you came to a Russian women forum and you are married to a latina. Yep. Nothing to prove. Heh


I personally find marriage to be a difficult endeavor in that it goes against my desire for independence so for me to get married it has to be one helluva good looking woman with most of the personality traits that I like!




Usually, and this goes for everybody else that has the same size shoe, when you (in general) try to subdue your partner, normally you will have difficulties in that relationship.


the women in America that would work for me, generally wouldn't be interested, and I can understand why.  They have better younger options, so I say good for them!

Fathertime!   


Oh, I wouldn't say they all want the young studs. They just like a partner, not a master and commander.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on December 15, 2014, 03:38:50 PM
One of the best things about finding a wife in the FSU, is their lack of a feminist background. This doesn't mean that they are completely devoid of all feminist 'values'. For example, the idea of equal pay for equal work is not shunned. FSUW are generally NOT subservient on a personal level in a marriage. Unlike many western women, they are not all about suppressing their femininity or attaining a masculine role. This is an over-simplification, but you get it.


PG, better take off your rose-colored glasses.


My wife always laugh at statements like this. She always claims that the FSU women were the first feminists.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: fathertime on December 15, 2014, 05:43:03 PM

Liar. If it didn't bother you, you would not have brought it up.  :P

 


By your comment, I think it is safe to assume that YOU care a lot about what others (strangers) think, and you shape your actions accordingly.  I don't see why you should though.




Riiight. That's why you came to a Russian women forum and you are married to a latina. Yep. Nothing to prove. Heh


So coming to a Russian forum means a person has something to prove.  That is real solid 'logic'.   :rolleyes:
It does give me a little delight though that my mere presence here prompts you to make silly comments and foam slightly at the mouth. 



Oh, I wouldn't say they all want the young studs. They just like a partner, not a master and commander.


Yes that is generally true.  Regardless, for me personally, I felt I aged out of the type of American lady that would motivate me to the point of marriage. 


Fathertime!   



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Slumba on December 19, 2014, 04:11:37 AM
Women aren't made/programmed that way.

I agree with your statement. 

Perhaps it explains why there is sometimes some "man shaming" going on - since women know they are unlikely to go afield for a mate, it follows that they are "stuck" with the in-country pool of men. 

Therefore if men are able to leave but women will not leave, it will mean more competition for a woman to surmount. 

The rationalization, therefore leads women to say "the men who leave must be unworthy".
Title: Operation White Panther ; the red pill
Post by: Patagonie on December 23, 2014, 05:31:37 AM
Ptite blond in the vicinity

So i was in a three months reltionship. A nurturing relationship with a family around me.
And then it came.

the letter

The one which pops up on your computer et just after you open it, just in three seconds you know.
Your heart stops to beat and you are overwhelmed by a tsunami of emotions.
You know that is done. Dismissed.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 08, 2015, 12:32:44 PM
We have just turned two years of marriage.

The first year was the most difficult.
Even if you believe to know and love your partner, his and you character have not been totally explored.
So you are hitting the boundaries which is sometimes explosive.

The difference of culture and how things work in the west need some adjustment for FSU women. There is time for
this country sucks (Ukraine is better) before she starts to see advantages and disadvantages of both system.
THe main concern was the daughter, worrying that she couldn't step in this new education system.
The tranquilization came during the second year. I was aware of the amazing capacity of children to learn a new language and i am not disappointed.

For my wife the story is a little different.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Anotherkiwi on June 08, 2015, 05:57:26 PM
We have just turned two years of marriage.

Congratulations on your anniversary!  :clapping:

The tranquilization came during the second year. I was aware of the amazing capacity of children to learn a new language and i am not disappointed.

For my wife the story is a little different.

I'm guessing that your wife had/is having trouble learning French.  How good is it now?  Had she studied any at school, or had she only been taught some English?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on June 08, 2015, 06:07:23 PM
Yes, congratulations on your anniversary, Patagonie.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on June 08, 2015, 06:25:25 PM
The first year was the most difficult.



Hey, that's a good thing. It can only mean you and your wife are moving closer together as time goes by, not further apart. Grats on your anniversary!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 10, 2015, 01:11:46 PM
Congratulations on your anniversary!  :clapping:

I'm guessing that your wife had/is having trouble learning French.  How good is it now?  Had she studied any at school, or had she only been taught some English?

Hi fellow,
you are right she struggles with french, but finally her level is not so bad, around B2. SHe learnt it in different schools. She starts to forget english a little bit but she has still a good grasp of the language even if speaking was limited for her.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 10, 2015, 01:14:21 PM
Yes, congratulations on your anniversary, Patagonie.

Thank you Bo for your post.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 10, 2015, 01:19:56 PM

Hey, that's a good thing. It can only mean you and your wife are moving closer together as time goes by, not further apart. Grats on your anniversary!

Hi Billy!
It's good to see you sticking around the forum all these years!
There are many steps through an international marriage, the stakes are higher but the life with a FSU woman is richer.
How your wife is adapting?
Does she work?

Just to know how her english adapted.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: The Natural on June 10, 2015, 01:26:45 PM
Congratulations on Your aniversary Pat. Children coming to a New country is not a problem (been there), but it takes more time for an adult. Be patient, it will come.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Hammer2722 on June 10, 2015, 02:16:42 PM
Congratulations Pat!!!!  :clapping:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Muzh on June 10, 2015, 03:36:28 PM
Hey Pat, you got two under your belt!! Keep on loving.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on June 10, 2015, 10:24:46 PM
How your wife is adapting?



She didn't need to adapt at all. Zero culture shock.


Does she work?



She's hardly working! She's going through medical school now and volunteering at a local hospital.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 14, 2015, 09:51:13 AM
When a man and a woman meet and marry ....
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 14, 2015, 10:18:02 AM

She didn't need to adapt at all. Zero culture shock.



She's hardly working! She's going through medical school now and volunteering at a local hospital.

Billy, thank you for your answer.
And how many time did she need to be able to learn english enough to go to this school?

I think that volunteering at hospital is a very nice way to make some improvments.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on June 17, 2015, 09:14:24 PM
When a man and a woman meet and marry ....

Holy Mackerel Andy !

Where do you wear these ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 26, 2015, 01:22:39 PM
Hi ML
We wore it both for the happy new year.
I personnaly wear mine more often, even at work.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on June 27, 2015, 11:30:32 PM
And how many time did she need to be able to learn english enough to go to this school?



Actually she knew fluent English before we met. Unfortunately her English is so good that she doesn't have the sexy accent. :(
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 14, 2016, 05:23:27 AM
This summer i had the surprise to use the new trains used on the main lines.
It seems to be that they come from Korea.
(http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o718/Patagonie/b3ae5163-b3c1-4fe8-b744-22fb79428452_zpsrud2uvze.jpg)
(http://s1339.photobucket.com/user/Patagonie/media/b3ae5163-b3c1-4fe8-b744-22fb79428452_zpsrud2uvze.jpg.html?state=copy&sp=false)
(http://s1339.photobucket.com/user/Patagonie/media/b3ae5163-b3c1-4fe8-b744-22fb79428452_zpsrud2uvze.jpg.html?state=copy&sp=false)
You can watch the TV, connect to the Wifi (can be very slow sometimes) and use the socket for your laptop or mobile phone.
(http://s1339.photobucket.com/user/Patagonie/media/IMG_20160803_172126_zpsnsreirp0.jpg.html?filters[user]=145630976&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 14, 2016, 05:46:32 AM
Some could believe that the war in Ukraine is just propaganda.
Here are some photos in Kharkiv to remind you what is happening on the front:

(http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o718/Patagonie/IMG_20160804_163542_zpso4hcwjen.jpg)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 21, 2016, 01:08:08 PM
Dunno if such memorial is present in any ukrainian big city but i believe that's a yes.

(http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o718/Patagonie/IMG_20160804_163532_zpsscyqqwru.jpg)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 22, 2016, 11:58:58 AM
AA gun, probably 23 mm

(http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o718/Patagonie/IMG_20160804_163643_zpskxdyizz4.jpg)
Title: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 08, 2019, 07:48:45 AM
SOME FRESH NEWS FROM PAT:
The fact is i come back after a long time.
It's worth to mention that's largely because there are some guys are really love here and they are great.
I would like to meet them in my life and it could happen because i am having more time now.
Morever il will be entirely free in three years very likely.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 08, 2019, 07:54:31 AM
Everybody knows that marriage are at risk now. Mine is over and i got divorced.
But i am fine now and all is over.

I think many followed the thread here and now know how flexible i am. So i have almost rebounded.
Don't get me wrong flexible doesn't mean shallow. I loved my wife (ex), i never cheated on her and did my best for my family.



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 08, 2019, 07:57:13 AM
Sorry for the news, but welcome back Pat.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Hammer2722 on March 08, 2019, 08:04:43 AM
Everybody knows that marriage are at risk now. Mine is over and i got divorced.
But i am fine now and all is over.

I think many followed the thread here and now know how flexible i am. So i have almost rebounded.
Don't get me wrong flexible doesn't mean shallow. I loved my wife (ex), i never cheated on her and did my best for my family.

Sorry to hear that Pat. Sending you best wishes....
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 08, 2019, 08:32:14 AM
Some people would say (especially the lowest informed about FSU women) she got her green card, your money and left you.

But my ex wife signed a prenup and she dropped me for a guy (poor) who earns five time less than me. And she was still under ukrainian nationality when that happened.
 
So the fact is that she felt in love with an other guy and my marriage was over in few days.
Some dark side coming from her shined during the prime of the pre- divorce, i will probably go for details later because it could help some beginners (but that would be the same story with a local woman as you need in average three years before enlightening the dark side of your spouse, that's a common point)

THat happens.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 08, 2019, 08:35:02 AM

Of course i had been angry, i had had to make my mourny. But i could tell that my anger was more 50% towards oriented this state full of crap, this court 95% filled of women, judges, attorneys and second assistants.
 I discovered that was worst than i thaught, Fairness, equity is just A LIE in family court. This is the peak of the hypocrisy. And i hired the best attorney of my state. You cannot expect more misandry than those people who are supposed to be  the parangon of the justice

That's why, more than ever, i totally don't recommand to marry. And of course never to a local.

It makes all things dirty, it makes you a prey, it puts you at risk every minute before you get the divorce definitively registered, it makes you a forced mute in your interest, it forces you to pay and reward financially the bad behavior, irresponsability and lazyness of the women. Every female judges and female attorneys is amused and consider that is the course of order that you are ripped of and being a woman is an excuse by itself protected by their sisters in law, who are ensuring a large impunity for women, even in the field of the criminal field (accordingly to a study of the french justice herself, and written by two women !!!)This justice is just an HUMILIATION everytime you come along with such crap.

And i am grateful to my attorney who was totally out of any standards and in a great way protected me.
It's why you should never use a woman as attorney in family cases, because more than 90% have the sense what happens to you as a man is NORMAL.

I personnaly aimed to find a compromise, understood that fighting will work against me considering that this whole justice system is total crap and decided to propose money to bail out asap and rebuild my life asap.

Build, rebuild, restore yourself, and rebound was the main line for me. Some members know me and the strenght and resilience i have.

But i suffered two years lost.
Largely one at least was lost because trapped in the such grimy grid of the law i couldn't move my life towards a space of freedom. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 08, 2019, 08:38:33 AM
Sorry to hear that Pat. Sending you best wishes....
Thank you very much for your support
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: JayH on March 08, 2019, 03:31:43 PM
Very ( very.very) sorry the hear your news today Pat

But-- welcome back. ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on March 08, 2019, 04:59:53 PM
Hi Pat,

Good to see you back here.
I have been patiently waiting for you !!  :-))
We need your wise viewpoints.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 08, 2019, 05:11:11 PM
Sorry for the news, but welcome back Pat.
Hi Sandro thank.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 08, 2019, 05:17:04 PM
Hi Pat,

Good to see you back here.
I have been patiently waiting for you !!  :-))
We need your wise viewpoints.
Hi ML you are also a very wise man, i appreciate you very much.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: CaptB on March 08, 2019, 11:07:05 PM
Hi Pat,


Sorry to hear of your situation. Welcome back to the board.......and hang in there.


Marc


Capt B
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 09, 2019, 04:22:06 AM
Sorry to hear that Pat. Sending you best wishes....
Thank you Ham.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on March 09, 2019, 02:14:51 PM
A....

Happy to have you back, my friend.  While your situation is not a happy one, at least you can get on with the rest of your life.   Know that you, of course, have friends on here who wish you all the best.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 10, 2019, 03:49:27 AM
Patagonie,

               I'm really sorry to hear about what's happened to you.

You're one of the good guys on here..always looking to give helpful advice to others in their search for a FSU wife.

I believe you'll find the right woman for you in time..so chin up.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 10, 2019, 10:59:58 AM
Hi Pat,


Sorry to hear of your situation. Welcome back to the board.......and hang in there.


Marc


Capt B
Thank you Mark
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 10, 2019, 11:01:46 AM
A....

Happy to have you back, my friend.  While your situation is not a happy one, at least you can get on with the rest of your life.   Know that you, of course, have friends on here who wish you all the best.
Hi buddy, yes things start to be fine, i am out now.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 10, 2019, 11:07:33 AM
Patagonie,

               I'm really sorry to hear about what's happened to you.

You're one of the good guys on here..always looking to give helpful advice to others in their search for a FSU wife.

I believe you'll find the right woman for you in time..so chin up.
Thank you Chelsea.
Find  a right woman is a very easy catch, if you ignore the time parameter in the theorem that's easy.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 10, 2019, 12:35:36 PM
So now i am back:
We know that every marriage is at stake, every five years half of them die in the big cities. We know also that it is needed three years to let the smoke vanish around the spouses and know about their real weaknesses.
And finally you have to know that 48 % of people are not faithful.

So the fact is i am in the norm ;D :P
I can tell you that i meet a lot of people in the same situation than me.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 10, 2019, 12:50:12 PM
I would come along two topics in the future:

1/ the facts or things that made this marriage to derail
It could help some people and give more hints to deep understanding some FSU inherited and cultural behavior
2/ How i have rebounded and what about my actual dating life  :luv: , yes i have one, i waited six months after my ex wife left to hit the bed of an other woman (and i disliked sex with her).

So a lot of people could think "who cares", considering that is a FSU forum. But i suppose that nobody has told you that i am only dating western women  ;D :P now.
How to rebound when you are 54 when you have been married to a FSU woman considered to be close to a model in Europe and 19 younger than you?

Believe me, but i thaught ok, this life is over for me and i will play golf, drive some cars, have lunch with good buddies, see some movies and never touch a woman except accident
But the fact is i was a player and that's like bycicle, you have to ride it again and it comes back.
And life is not so bad now  :P I don't complain

Calibration and DHV (demonstrator of high value) are incredible assets now for me



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 10, 2019, 01:08:32 PM
I can guarantee you that i start to have a lot of fun now.

And now more than ever i can see that i am the prize (seems like a little patronizing but the most important is to really understand that the message you get on your daily life as a man in USA or Europe is to kill your self esteem for the purpose to abuse you financially and psychologically easier).
So i am going to tell you some of this real life i have.
 Some will dislike the morale involved, but the fact is my morale has largely lowered, as my level of respect for this western society which has litteraly dropped to the toilet. (many facts come along with this : as politics, economy, professional, the pressure of the feminism and so on).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2019, 06:22:51 AM
Just read the thread update, sorry too about your marriage Pat. You know the others on here way more than me as I'm just recent in comparison but I recall you helping me out on here witg some advice a little while back and appreciate it. I also hold the opinion that western society as in the US, UK etc is entirely damaging to having a long happy marriage. If possible I would live out in the FSU rather than import a girl as western society in my opinion is just a constant erosion on a marriage until most almost inevitably collapse.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 11, 2019, 07:12:59 AM
I met and married a woman in another country twenty years ago...not the FSU.

Worse thing I did was bring her to the UK..

About a year before we split she told me the longer she'd spent in the UK the more westernised she was becoming.

I know of someone who's married to a woman in Ethiopia..but there's no way he'll bring her to the UK.

He says "when I buy her a dress she treats me like a King..if I bought her one in the UK she'd be questioning why it isn't a Versace ".
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on March 11, 2019, 09:40:33 AM
I have expressed my regrets to Patagonie privately, and I do not wish to derail his thread, but I will make one comment.  A society does not change a person.  That person was malleable from the beginning.  You just didn't see who she really was.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on March 11, 2019, 11:11:22 AM
Pat, thanks for stopping by with the update.

All of us appreciate your candor.  You have our sympathy and support. 

I made a similar mistake.  And just like I did,  you will recover and be the better for it.  In fact, it seems your recovery is progressing well. 

Life is a precious gift, enjoy it fully.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 11, 2019, 12:01:54 PM
Pat, thanks for stopping by with the update.

All of us appreciate your candor.  You have our sympathy and support. 

I made a similar mistake.  And just like I did,  you will recover and be the better for it.  In fact, it seems your recovery is progressing well. 

Life is a precious gift, enjoy it fully.
Thank you Gator, that's ok now. Two difficult years but four years and half of real happiness, so not so bad.  Life is short as you wrote it.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 11, 2019, 03:22:39 PM
TrenchChelsea
I share you ananysis.

Part of my reflexion today is to partially relocate in FSU in the future. There also good things in Ukraine, my ex buddy, a french married with an ukrainian lady was having good time there. For ukranians that's a different story, many struggles and the country is with very little future for most of them. You have a lot of privilege to be an expat or kind of.
No need of a marriage, no western court fulfilled of misandrist judges and attorneys.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 11, 2019, 03:28:13 PM
I have expressed my regrets to Patagonie privately, and I do not wish to derail his thread, but I will make one comment.  A society does not change a person.  That person was malleable from the beginning.  You just didn't see who she really was.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Bo wrote to me and i am investigating what she is explaining to me.
And she is largely right about the fact that my ex wife was hiding what she was (and she was a good manipulator, that was also the opinion of a ukrainian female friend i have in France and who knows her) during the 3 years described as to the be "the heaven time before the smoke has gone"  :D :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 12, 2019, 01:53:51 AM
2/ How i have rebounded and what about my actual dating life

Finally i would prefer to talk about this topic.
When you split with someone there is a process to mourny the relationship. Bruce Fisher described in his book (after the break) the different steps involved. One of those step is to lower his previous partner to help you to leave him.

In fact i am already out of those steps. I have restarted a new life.
So for the moment i would prefer to focus about this new life.

I hope it could help, not people who are already in couples, but the singles ones or at least entertain them while some could enrage and want to  :deadhorse: me ? But in the last possibility i don't care  >:D .
That's something very huge in our societies which prevents us to find our personalities : approval, validation.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: 2tallbill on March 12, 2019, 11:12:44 AM
Mine is over and i got divorced.

Crap,

I am sorry Pat, I thought I would come back and read about the next step in
your adventure. Getting divorced and starting over sucks. I wish you the best

Bill
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 14, 2019, 04:49:55 AM
Crap,

I am sorry Pat, I thought I would come back and read about the next step in
your adventure. Getting divorced and starting over sucks. I wish you the best

Bill
Hi Bill, you will read about my next step in the adventure yes, but not with the same woman ;D
Yeah it sucked two years of my life.

Thank you
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on March 14, 2019, 07:07:28 AM
Sorry for the news, but welcome back Pat.

Patagonie

I know we might not agree on how to find a partner but losing one you loved and lived with is hard.

May you heal well and when / if you return to the fray or move to the FSU, share your knowledge / opinion.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 14, 2019, 12:11:37 PM
Patagonie

I know we might not agree on how to find a partner but losing one you loved and lived with is hard.

May you heal well and when / if you return to the fray or move to the FSU, share your knowledge / opinion.
MSmob, thank you to express your empathy, i appreciate. The world would be boring if everybody was sharing the same opinion.

I will go further, i am still in contact with the FSU world, i was in february, summer 2017 in Ukraine, in summer 2018 and november 2018 (sort of VO for a girl from a little city, came from some friends of me, the father of the daughter on ex wifey  :P :P :P )
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 15, 2019, 03:59:32 AM
Ex wife started do mess our marriage in november 2016 and left in december 2017 our home.

I stopped anything physical wiht my ex wife in may 2017.
During the summer 2017 i had to hire an interpreter in Ukraine to inform the father of ex wife's daughter that our marriage was burnt and to find if necessary some decisions about this topic. Additionnaly i wanted to have some russian lessons (with the language), but it seems that there was also some attraction not only for the words.   :P .
She is in her mid fourties and an 8 for her age at least. We hold hands nothing more and we are still in contact.
She talked three times of marriage since summer 2017 but this is now what i do with this s....  :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

Except this slight contact i was not in the mood to rush in any other woman and never cheated to my ex wife.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 15, 2019, 04:11:50 AM
The evening ex wife left end of december 2017 i invited two buddies, cooked for them, opened a bottle of champaign and we had good time.
I spend weeks alone watching movies evening after evening in the beginning of 2018.


It didn't mean that i was not hanging out but i had no real tremendous joy to do it. I signed for a serious meeting internet site but i did the mistake to record my real age. As this stupid site don't allow you to choose profiles, he gives  me a bunch of ladies between my age minus 7 and plus 7. Of course as you guess a lot are ugly, and half at least are overweighted like 1m61 and 63kg. Half have the military haircut. So lets say that i am relunctant to have some meetings. In 14 months i had few in the behalf of this site.

The first one was a nice blond in her fourties and the meeting was great and she seemed interested, did i overplayed some things i wrote in one sms (calibration problem ?), or was she flimsy? I would never know
The second one was an asiat and we decided to setup a second appointment. She felted asleep on the sofa and missed the rendez vous  ::) :D . As she was not active te reset an other appointment i let it go.


Apart this i have some personal relations with whom i some time hang out in places wher people go.

THe main problem was that the anger i had because of my divorce. That's a real game breaker which sweats and f.... your pickups.
However i had one evening great glances of a lady in her fourties and quickly printed her signs of interest. I therefore asked her phone number, i got the first phone number of my new life. My first phone close (FC).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 15, 2019, 07:44:52 AM
The second rendez-vous was setup and we want to the restaurant. I arrived in motorbike and had good time.
I proposed a ballad not so far from the river (i have a degree in river's ballads  :P , see first pages of this topic lol)
I hold her hand and lead her and when back at her car kissed her.
Re kissed her to let her know that was not an accident  :welcome:

Finally i let her go.

First kiss close of my new life (KC)
 :flowers:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on March 15, 2019, 08:20:37 PM
The second rendez-vous was setup and we want to the restaurant. I arrived in motorbike and had good time.
I proposed a ballad not so far from the river (i have a degree in river's ballads  :P , see first pages of this topic lol)
I hold her hand and lead her and when back at her car kissed her.
Re kissed her to let her know that was not an accident  :welcome:

Finally i let her go.

First kiss close of my new life (KC)
 :flowers:

Sounds great; keep up the good work !!

Be sure to fasten your condom and wear your seat belt;  Or maybe the other way around !!

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 19, 2019, 03:20:09 AM
Sounds great; keep up the good work !!

Be sure to fasten your condom and wear your seat belt;  Or maybe the other way around !!
Thank ML
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 19, 2019, 03:59:43 AM
The day after we had a long conversation with this woman. And, as i was on a penpal site for outings for a long time, she started to come along this one. She asked me when i was registered, when i was married, when i met my ex wife. I honestly answered to those questions (my fault  :cluebat: ,the nice guy honestly answering to twisted questions). She finally started to make some hints like why were you having some outings while married, in fact the hint was simply i was betraying my marriage.

The day after all this s.... came back in my mind and i realized that if i had said or done such thing to a woman she would have slap my face, or turn off her mobile phone for ever.

How is it possible to hint to someone you don't know that he had betrayed his spouse ?  :deadhorse:
Therefore i send her a last sms : "i didn't really tasted the morality inquiry yesterday and i found unacceptable the hints you dropped about my unfaithfulness during my marriage. So we will stop here".

I came across her several times in parties and she was barely stalking me. She even one time came in front of me to make my opinion changed.

Women have this incredible talent to believe that whatever bad they do they can overcome it by changing and manipulating men's heads. They think that they are entitled to be forgiven automatically because they are women and they have a special immunity accordingly to the gender.
This is named irresponsability.

I am in favor of shared equality and i work on it as you can see.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on March 19, 2019, 04:14:02 AM
It is not only FSU W who have such opinions.

Some male members ..who should know better...criticised me for daring to date while still legally married.  :deadhorse:

That my wife refused to divorce and I couldn't divorce her AND I explained the situation in advance to any potential date seemed to be irrelevant))





Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 19, 2019, 04:23:42 AM
It is not only FSU W who have such opinions.

Some male members ..who should know better...criticised me for daring to date while still legally married.  :deadhorse:

That my wife refused to divorce and I couldn't divorce her AND I explained the situation in advance to any potential date seemed to be irrelevant))

That's the perversion of the western system, the court is not capable to force the divorce while one of the spouse (for various reasons) try to trap his partner.

And
As in FSU you divorce very quickly for what i know
 it becomes a big disadvantage in the dating FSU world if you are a western guy not divorced because a lot of FSU women believe that you try to cheat on them. So you have a real disadvantage and some moral pressure.
I consider that you are the only one to perfectly know where you want to go whatever is the "potential relationship(s)" you want.

I wrote relationship with an s because human time could be shared between serious and non serious relationships, and it works for both sex.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Faux Pas on March 19, 2019, 08:01:15 AM
Everybody knows that marriage are at risk now. Mine is over and i got divorced.
But i am fine now and all is over.

I think many followed the thread here and now know how flexible i am. So i have almost rebounded.
Don't get me wrong flexible doesn't mean shallow. I loved my wife (ex), i never cheated on her and did my best for my family.

That's a bummer Pat and I'm sorry to hear that. C'est la vie. You've always struck me as very methodical and cautious. Also one of the good guys, level headed and doled out good advice to the newbies. Your situation is proof it can happen to anyone and does. Most all couples I have known personally in the East/West marriages have failed. Most of those seemed well intentioned. Pin your ears back friend. There's something good for you yet to happen that wouldn't have if that marriage didn't go tits up
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 20, 2019, 02:35:04 PM
That's a bummer Pat and I'm sorry to hear that. C'est la vie. You've always struck me as very methodical and cautious. Also one of the good guys, level headed and doled out good advice to the newbies. Your situation is proof it can happen to anyone and does. Most all couples I have known personally in the East/West marriages have failed. Most of those seemed well intentioned. Pin your ears back friend. There's something good for you yet to happen that wouldn't have if that marriage didn't go tits up
Your kindness has moved me.
I am happy to see your post.
It could have been for an other concern, but that's life  :P Yes we choose each other and had a real four years and half of love. Not so bad, good, very good experience. Ex wifey was really among the very few most important women of my life.

My divorce was also methodical and cautious  :D . So i succeed in my marriage and in my divorce  8)
No seriously, y i protected and saved myself from the very first days of the rout with the same mindset.

Wish you the best Faux Pas.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 26, 2019, 03:24:46 AM
I will not display two or three other dates i had but want to relate this one.
It started from a dating site.

Before the rendez vous it started with sms:
Pat : i call you in 30 mn, will you be ready, made up, showed, dressed up :D ?
Her : Not ready because i am still in my garden :P , but available on the phone  :D
Pat : i don't know if i will call you so...Her : i am gonna to make you listen birds
So we had an entertaining conversationLate in the evening :
Her : Thank you for this dialogue good evening Pat *flower*Pat : You have a very pleasant voice, you are unquestionably very amazing as suprem leader.
We met in a busy avenue and we like each other physically, she wanted to pay to the bar. We did one and an other one (changing of location, climbing the ladder).
She was  smart, brunette, with very large breasts, sensitive, white collar.
But quite busy with her job and three young children.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 26, 2019, 03:33:23 AM
In the next exchanges we will see how is it possible to sexualise the speech, the most difficult is to stay in the limits, this is the art of calibration, but unfortunately there are no rules.

European girls and especially french ones are very sensitive to the speech (they like to talk, they like the talking, and many focus on the bla bla). I think that they have too much intellectualized the process rather than to live it and to enjoy what their senses tell them.

THis something IMHO which draws a distinction between WW and FSU women (this is not the only one  kaneschna)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on March 26, 2019, 03:39:20 AM

THis something IMHO which draws a distinction between WW and FSU women (this is not the only one  kaneschna)

I can't agree...  But they do say the Irish can charm the pants off ye ....  ;)

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on March 26, 2019, 07:29:43 PM
Pat, good results can come from sexual talk at some point in time. 
But you are right, the trick is in the timing. 
If you toss out a hint, and she follows up with something more aggressive, then you  are both 'on the way.'

However, we both know that there are some women who would be turned off by any sexual joke or hint . . . and yet at the right time become very sexual and even aggressive.

We never exactly know which way things will go . . . but then, neither do the women.

- - - - -

I just remembered one time when I told a mild sexual joke or said something sexual.
The woman told me that I shouldn't talk like that.
I thought all was lost, but we were on a boat ride and had to last it out anyway, so I just laughed and said: Why not?

She said: Because I get excited very easily, and don't want to get excited if nothing is going to happen.

I said: Don't worry, something will happen.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 27, 2019, 02:43:02 AM
I just remembered one time when I told a mild sexual joke or said something sexual.
The woman told me that I shouldn't talk like that.
I thought all was lost, but we were on a boat ride and had to last it out anyway, so I just laughed and said: Why not?

She said: Because I get excited very easily, and don't want to get excited if nothing is going to happen.

I said: Don't worry, something will happen.
:thumbsup:
You are clearly a winner ML.

Women could surprise you every time, but not in the way you could expect.
Title: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on April 09, 2019, 01:48:10 AM
After the appointment i sent her a sms :
At home? It was great. Now we need to set up the second meeting. Planting onions in the garden? Crocodile swamp trip? Slows songs compilation from New Orleans? By the way do you know how to dance rock and slows?

Her : Hi Pat, have a great day, it's cold!
Her : Hi Pat sorry to be silent, just very busy. I ask myself of how to connect or not our two personnalities?

Pat : "her name" good night (name that i find very elegant), you know what would be very cool? We could walk for a while with a packed lunch in the wild, with a thermos flask of coffee and some chocolate or a bottle of champaign. I will whisper you some fairytale in your ear (but without biting it) et you will curl against me because of the cold. Will be around sunday or monday. Pat
Her : i am wild, not easy to approach and not available before next wednesday because of my children (smile).
--> so we see here some difference between the fsu and western dating. An FSU will never raise such fences except the famous "i am shy" which means that she takes you for a ride or you have gone too fast.
Here the most important is : she wants a second meeting.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on April 09, 2019, 10:47:25 AM
Good start Pat.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on April 09, 2019, 02:32:06 PM
Good start Pat.
Happy you are back
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on April 12, 2019, 03:22:01 AM
Pat : My father got back from Africa a special rifle that sent hypodermic arrows for lions, leopard ...
I think i need to take it for our next appointment. After i will remove your trouser and spank "put her very nice name" if you continue -smiley-
One day after, Pat : may we call each other 10 minutes?
One minute after : yes -flower-
Pat : late in the evening. I liked to talk with you, you have a very pleasant voice
Her : Me too. Hope your running trip .... and blabla. I call be available friday or monday, it's up to you to tell me -smiley- -flower-

So things are going well, she lets me know her schedule and even to choose my day  :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on April 12, 2019, 07:17:19 AM
Pat, you let your English be a little garbled here, so hard to know exactly what you said.

They say that blood leaves the brain and goes to penis, so maybe . . . .

But seems it worked fine when you spoke of it in French to her !!  :-))
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on April 12, 2019, 01:54:00 PM
Pat, you let your English be a little garbled here, so hard to know exactly what you said.

They say that blood leaves the brain and goes to penis, so maybe . . . .

But seems it worked fine when you spoke of it in French to her !!  :-))
Oh ML i think that you are in the wrong topic, i dropped such a sentence but not in this trip report it was in :
Being a gentleman or a chump? (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=23615.msg507998;topicseen#msg507998)

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 13, 2019, 07:17:33 AM
few messages and :
Her : hello today my birthday, have a good day.Pat : your birthday? You have hidden this to me. Kisses, have a nice day too, i've just dropped a message on your mobile.
Pat : i am preparing your birthday for our rendez-vous friday evening. Do you trust me or do we have to setup a shared liability company? If you feel too shy, we can just go to eat a cheese-burger....
MEMOS : i was planning to invite her in a very nice restaurant, crazy sightview by night, forest around, top on a hill, and a little gift for her birthday, nothing expansive but a little gift.
Her : it's very kind. I would like to close my eyes et follow you ... but we just know each other, i am a little lost, have some trouble to find my place. I would like to simply knowing you. And you what are you waiting from this evening?
Pat : learn to know you, to live, to laugh, help you to find your place. You have to know to give, you have to know to receive, even if you feel more vulnerable sometime. You are afraid to receive? Life is what is unexpected and i want you to share itHer : not used to receive and let it go. A litttle cautious of someone almost unknownPat : it seems that you make a relapse now lolHer : need to trustPat : trust has to etablished over time and i am not an easy man.Her : lolPat : it was written in my profile. Take a pill and try to sleep nowHer : I am working, after i will go to sleep.Pat : If you don't wear right now your little pyjamas et don't drop yourself in the sheets and  i would have to come with the big rifle from Africa, do you remember?
Her : lol i keep myself back from you. Promised, i stop to work, good night!Pat: time to sleep!Her: good night
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 18, 2019, 02:32:21 PM
Her : Thank you. Hope to be tomorrow
I invited her in a beautiful restaurant, modern cooking, bring a little present for her birthday. After i bring her to see the night sighview of the big city.
Then we walked around, mainly on the top of the hill, searching our way in the night, hand to hand along some houses sometimes sitting or strecthing out in the grass.
She relied on me sometimes as it was barely impossible to see the ground.
I kissed her and she kissed me at the end.
I bring her back to her car later in the night, it was a half hour time more spent together.

SHe sent : Back. Thank you again for this evening, you are a real gentleman. Flower Smile Smile
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 19, 2019, 01:27:45 PM
One point need to be made :

Offering a gift and diner for a woman in Europe who have met you one hour and hald is SCARY.
Especially if it's for her birthday.

You want of course to work in the opposite direction.
It's why you need to bring some lightness in the relationship. It's like a push and pull.

So before the diner i told her if you prefer, rather this diner, who can go to grab two cheeseburgers (which is an insane offer in the french culture)
After she agreed, i wrote her : all is fine "name of the lady", i cancellled the two cheeseburgers i ordered in Amazone and succeed to resell them to some boat people in a post office.

Of course she found this hilarious, you bring some lightness and make all this stuff fun. PushAnd you also in NPL bring an anchor around the word "cheeseburgers". Some if you work again on this word you can make it total legend in a real history like "baby i would like invite you to eat a cheeseburger", that's become therefore a keyword of your story.
You could think that's Pat's blabla but women are into this type of.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 19, 2019, 01:34:43 PM
The fault is to not put sexual tense in the communication (something if forgot to play in my date of today, an other story for an other day).

So after ou diner and kissing she wrote me :
her : i had been seek and my blood pressure today was very low. I am outme : You should have kiss me less intensively friday. You see you are very tired now.

her : smile, lol, flower
Pat : if we have to sleep together, maybe i have to ask a medical certificate no?

Her : (she is compliant and plays the game) be careful i am surely very seek and that's very contagious
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on June 19, 2019, 01:46:21 PM
So to close this story we had a third meeting.
It was a friday and we had voth worked all the week.
She also brake a mirror on her car just before coming.
During all the meeting she was cold, distant, no kissing.
And few time before the end she said "i am not in love".

So it was just before my travel in Thailand. I purely stopped to communicate with her. I respect, no problem. If she don't like me or don't have real feelings no problem i am not upset.
I have a very good opinion of her. Smart, interesting, sportive, generous woman.

She sent two messages to which i didn't reply.

Finally few months after, as i relocated close to where she was living. I was new in this aera and i thaught that she could be a good friend, so i contacted her.
Note : many guys when they tell you such thing are dishonest, they will think in fact to try to hit them a second time. NOT my purpose.

So i told her what i write above. She seemed surprised and a little upset. She told me that she had met a man recently and that she was highly involved with him. I told her that i was happy for her. She refused to see me but would be happy to say hi if we bump into each other due to our proximity.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on June 19, 2019, 10:50:27 PM
Thank you, Pat...

You do not want to get 'seek' via a woman you will never be with...

Getting the medical certificate together can be fun ...

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 12, 2019, 09:21:35 PM
Hi Guys,
Actually in Dnipro and monday in Kiev for few days. Feel free to contact me if you are there, will be happy to do my best to meet you. My temporary ukrainian number +380976102508
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on July 12, 2019, 09:43:15 PM
My temporary ukrainian number +380976102508


I'd call but you're married! Have fun and post some pics when you get back.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 13, 2019, 01:31:12 AM
I'd call but you're married! Have fun and post some pics when you get back.
Hi Billy, you can call me if you are in (zythomir ?).I have a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: krimster2 on July 13, 2019, 08:25:20 AM
if you have a car and some time
head south from Dnipro to Zaporozhia to the "resevoir"
NICE!!!

look for the large outdoor "flea markets"
they're always worth a look
be prepared to haggle
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 14, 2019, 02:35:26 AM
Krim thank you for the proposition, i doubt that i will have enough time because i leave tomorrow very early morning
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on July 14, 2019, 07:24:51 AM
Hi Billy, you can call me if you are in (zythomir ?).I have a lot of fun.

 I've got too much work to do to before I can take a vacation. You're going to have to have fun without me. :(
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on July 15, 2019, 09:19:32 AM
Zaporizhia is south of Kyiv and is a very dirty industrial town of around 3/4 million people
Zhytomyr is west of Kyiv and a fairly clean university town of around 1/4 million people with large dairy processing facility.

Not sure which place Pat was talking about possibly visiting.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on July 15, 2019, 01:13:56 PM
Zaporizhia is south of Kyiv and is a very dirty industrial town of around 3/4 million people
Zhytomyr is west of Kyiv and a fairly clean university town of around 1/4 million people with large dairy processing facility.

Not sure which place Pat was talking about possibly visiting.

I do not  remember anything redeeming about Zaptown.   The highlight of the trip was walk on the hydroelectric dam.  The Cossack area perhaps could have been interesting except it rained.   The longest, straightest, and ugliest main avenue in any city I visited in the FSU.  To this add the not so faint odors of factory emissions, causing me concern about what I could be breathing.   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: krimster2 on July 15, 2019, 01:20:36 PM
you were at the dam but didn't go to the Khortytsia reserve?
the whole Dnepr watershed is AMAZING one of the best river systems in the world IMHO...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on July 15, 2019, 01:27:59 PM
you were at the dam but didn't go to the Khortytsia reserve?
the whole Dnepr watershed is AMAZING one of the best river systems in the world IMHO...

That is what I referred to as the Cossack Island.  Impressive, but not even Central Park or Stanley Park is much fun in the rain.

The Zap UW with me was one of my worse dating experiences.  I am sure she said the same about me. She snored louder than any man (evidently the result of a bad auto accident many years ago).   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: krimster2 on July 15, 2019, 01:39:40 PM
it would totally suck being there in the rain (and mud!)
but spectacular on a warm sunny day...

the Dnepr waterways are just amazing
too bad it's such a hassle owning a boat in Ukraine


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on July 15, 2019, 06:28:31 PM
the Dnepr waterways are just amazing
too bad it's such a hassle owning a boat in Ukraine

When in Dnipro (the new name, and much easier to pronounce), I walked to the river 2-3 times.  The string of dams have made the river wide and slow, perfect  for barges of coal and sand as expected.  Unexpected were the passenger boats, resembling passenger traffic on the Congo, except people are white and not sardined.   

In the late afternoon I watched a couple of passenger ferries returning weary citizens who had harvested their gardens at dachas up and down the river.  I laughingly equated it to watching the fishing boats in America return from the sea to their harbors.  Instead of catches of mahimahi, tuna, blues or the rare huge marlin laid out on the dock,  it was a parade of Slavs carrying bags of potatoes, buckets of tomatoes, a monster cabbage, and baskets of fruits.   Evidently these citizens of Dnipro did not need or could not afford a car, following  tradition from the steamship era.    It was certainly a scene uncommon to America.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 15, 2019, 11:28:30 PM
Zaporizhia is south of Kyiv and is a very dirty industrial town of around 3/4 million people
Zhytomyr is west of Kyiv and a fairly clean university town of around 1/4 million people with large dairy processing facility.

Not sure which place Pat was talking about possibly visiting.
I believe that Zhytomir is the city of Billy's wife it's why i was writing about this city
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 15, 2019, 11:31:19 PM
Zaporizhia is south of Kyiv and is a very dirty industrial town of around 3/4 million people
Zhytomyr is west of Kyiv and a fairly clean university town of around 1/4 million people with large dairy processing facility.

Not sure which place Pat was talking about possibly visiting.
Zapo is not only a dirty industrial city but there are four nuclear reactors nearby.
Exactly the type of reactors that could make a Tchernobyl V2.0This is one of my fear for the country
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: krimster2 on July 16, 2019, 04:57:43 AM
Zaporizhia NPP has SIX reactors!!!

six reactors all in a row...
PLUS spent fuel processing...

wind currents are circular there
heads North and to the East

if I were Ukraine, I would "mine" each reactor
and spent fuel processing

and let Russia know...

Mutually Assured Destruction with 6+ Chernobil's going off at once
in case of invasion

maybe they're only bluffing
or maybe not...

they're the only nuclear weapons Ukraine has to use as a deterrent


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on July 16, 2019, 05:53:43 AM
When in Dnipro (the new name, and much easier to pronounce), I walked to the river 2-3 times.

Loved the beautiful walkway along the river.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 16, 2019, 01:46:45 PM
Loved the beautiful walkway along the river.
I ran there saturday, and a AN2 dropped six paratroopers who landed in the Dniepr. I probably had some photos.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on July 18, 2019, 01:09:45 AM
I ran there saturday, and a AN2 dropped six paratroopers who landed in the Dniepr. I probably had some photos.

May be an AN-26?

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-26#/media/File:An-26_Ni%C2%B5_Nishava_Serbien_Marko_Stojkovic_IMG_2634-1-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 18, 2019, 04:49:19 AM
May be an AN-26?

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-26#/media/File:An-26_Ni%C2%B5_Nishava_Serbien_Marko_Stojkovic_IMG_2634-1-2.jpg)
Hi MSB
It was definitively an AN2. A biplane with one motor in front. This type is very popular to drop paratroopers. It allows a very low speed, which is exactly what is wanted for the purpose.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on July 18, 2019, 09:49:47 AM
Hi MSB
It was definitively an AN2. A biplane with one motor in front. This type is very popular to drop paratroopers. It allows a very low speed, which is exactly what is wanted for the purpose.

I bow to your insistence and clear expertise ... Never heard of an An-2  Thanks for educating me !

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 18, 2019, 11:20:35 AM
I bow to your insistence and clear expertise ... Never heard of an An-2  Thanks for educating me !

Msb, if you have time go to Kiev to the aviation museum. They have an amazing collection of USSR planes. I will post a photo here of tha AN2. It's quite a popular plane there. The A26 is two motors, faster, an airliner.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on July 18, 2019, 11:37:21 AM
A -

You keep saying you're gonna post a pic of an AN-2.   Get on with it, already!  LOL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sV4dk5cYRf0
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 19, 2019, 02:29:39 AM
AN2 on the Dnep(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13384.0;attach=37377;image)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 19, 2019, 02:31:21 AM
Paratroopers
(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13384.0;attach=37379;image) (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13384.0;attach=37379;image)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 25, 2019, 06:00:30 AM
let start a little game :

Except the first hilaring 3.40 first minutes :
Try to find out when (timeline) the women find the speaker attractive :

Non verbal language

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ns0CeBhxXs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ns0CeBhxXs)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on October 25, 2019, 08:21:54 PM
Very interesting Pat.
 
Actually, we all pretty much know the answers the gals will give regarding maximum age difference;
but we just don't care !!  :-))

Because our situation is the 1 out of million that will be successful.

Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on October 27, 2019, 05:32:39 AM
The answer from the lady at 5:10 said it all.

Yet we have some contributors who have child brides that speak of excuses why they are not in photos together..
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on October 27, 2019, 02:02:37 PM
Pat - this thread needs an update if you're playing funny games on Tinder.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 28, 2019, 07:07:12 AM
So in fact it's possible to "spoof" Badoo.
That's a naturel option in Tinder but i have the improved version. So you can set up the location you want or use the current one
In Badoo this is a little more work. First you have to remove in parameters the possibilité for Badoo to use the localisation and after you setup one in Badoo application, the one you wish.

So i will make a try.
The strategy, being 10 days prior my departure is to stock a maximum of like and setup some rendez vous and calls 48 or 72 hours maximum my flight.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 28, 2019, 07:23:01 AM
I am in the feeling that's a lot of girls are going to avoid you like the plague if you are NOT in the surrounding.

I just give you my feeling. I think tons of guys all over the world are lurking for a total of milliard of hours the most beautiful women pictures available. Guess what FSU is one of the biggest provider.

Therefore i do believe that some girls are flooded now. Fifteen years ago that was already the case to some of my close female friends, ranking between 7 and 8. After two weeks their dating site mailbox was full with the local biggest dating site available at this time.

So ... 15 years after with the booming internet and everyone, even the poorest having a smartphone....


Just want to relate the very last experience i had (yesterday lol)

My top list girl in Kiev 39 years old, we started a nice chat, both agreed to call each other prior my venue. I was located, through Tinder, in Kiev. But to communicate i had to give my french number to go to Viber/Whatsapp. SHe wanted to call me but i had an event and asked to postpone. Not only i didn't heard about her anymore but she removed me from the matches and the whole converstation has disappeared. Just hope that she didn't make things worse by reporting to the site administration a claim. That's would be very strange considering that i had a respectful language and no stupid proposition.
I started the whole conversation in russian and my last message was in full french as she herself speaks the language and what she wrote in french lets me believe she was good at it.

I think that the right thing to do is to setup a female profile in Kiev with nice photos of a random girl to get a clear idea of how a nice ukrainian women in her 39 could be flooded
That's could be a cool idea. Sometime you learn a lot by reversing the cards.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on October 28, 2019, 12:20:17 PM
Quote
Just want to relate the very last experience i had (yesterday lol) 

Splendid to read you are still hunting!!!  This one got away, and could reappear down the trail.  There are  a million others. 


 :applause:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on October 28, 2019, 01:15:17 PM
I am in the feeling that's a lot of girls are going to avoid you like the plague if you are NOT in the surrounding.
...
Just want to relate the very last experience i had (yesterday lol)

My top list girl in Kiev 39 years old, we started a nice chat, both agreed to call each other prior my venue. I was located, through Tinder, in Kiev. But to communicate i had to give my french number to go to Viber/Whatsapp. SHe wanted to call me but i had an event and asked to postpone. Not only i didn't heard about her anymore but she removed me from the matches and the whole converstation has disappeared.
Easy problem to solve. Get a Ukrainian SIM card. Set up a regular payment so it does not expire. Use Whatsapp or Viber to communicate.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 28, 2019, 02:13:54 PM
Easy problem to solve. Get a Ukrainian SIM card. Set up a regular payment so it does not expire. Use Whatsapp or Viber to communicate.
Yes i have a sim card from my last travel and also several phones, but had always be too lazy to put credit by myself lol.
Need to take care about this maybe.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 28, 2019, 02:32:59 PM
Splendid to read you are still hunting!!!  This one got away, and could reappear down the trail.  There are  a million others. 


 :applaud:
Please to read you Gator.

Cannot complaint since ex wifey left the house.
I invited two friends the day after and opened a bottle champaign.Since then i need to be alone and watched movie after movie few months
I have chased locally kissed some had two gf, one mistress
but also went four times in one year to Ukraine, don't even know the total trips i have done  now, more than 20 for sure.
THere i had had one gf, a mistress, and some relatives introduces me to a young lady 33 maybe with whom i spent several day afterhaving met her during a previous trip. Finally as nothing was moving in a real physical direction, i cleaned up the case.

I have actually a quite strong contact in a second city and  also two maybe backups in the same city, not considering all the women who have previously engaded some messages with me.

So the world is vast.
I met a journalist also in Kiev that i wanted to keep friend, but you know slavic women ... a single one will generally consider
that she has better to use her time to chase other males.
One of my two russian teachers lives in Kiev so we meet sometimes and that's cool. Russian language is clearly a key. I can talk 10 minutes now by myself. What i say is probably awful for a native speaker, but women get what i want to say.

I like Kiev for the vivid life and enjoy the cultural side of this city. So i am gonna to probably book for a spectacle before i go.
I like especially to run around in all the parks behing the cathedral along the Dnepr, go down, cross the pedestrian bridge and go to the island and return to the flat, last time located close to Maidan.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 28, 2019, 05:28:34 PM
I am in the feeling that's a lot of girls are going to avoid you like the plague if you are NOT in the surrounding.

I just give you my feeling. I think tons of guys all over the world are lurking for a total of milliard of hours the most beautiful women pictures available. Guess what FSU is one of the biggest provider.

Therefore i do believe that some girls are flooded now. Fifteen years ago that was already the case to some of my close female friends, ranking between 7 and 8. After two weeks their dating site mailbox was full with the local biggest dating site available at this time.

So ... 15 years after with the booming internet and everyone, even the poorest having a smartphone....


Just want to relate the very last experience i had (yesterday lol)

My top list girl in Kiev 39 years old, we started a nice chat, both agreed to call each other prior my venue. I was located, through Tinder, in Kiev. But to communicate i had to give my french number to go to Viber/Whatsapp. SHe wanted to call me but i had an event and asked to postpone. Not only i didn't heard about her anymore but she removed me from the matches and the whole converstation has disappeared. Just hope that she didn't make things worse by reporting to the site administration a claim. That's would be very strange considering that i had a respectful language and no stupid proposition.
I started the whole conversation in russian and my last message was in full french as she herself speaks the language and what she wrote in french lets me believe she was good at it.

I think that the right thing to do is to setup a female profile in Kiev with nice photos of a random girl to get a clear idea of how a nice ukrainian women in her 39 could be flooded
That's could be a cool idea. Sometime you learn a lot by reversing the cards.

I think you're right Pat, being there is probably becoming key these days. The dating game can move on and women don't want to yada, yada with some guy that may turn out to be an Internet Romeo.

I think Kiev is a tough get, I got that impression a lot this summer when I was there. I knew it would be practically pointless for me. I might have got some traction with one of the young girls in McDonald's just a block off or so from Shevchenko Park if I tried my luck but I felt they were too young for me. A good place to go though I think if you're looking for a down to earth sort of girl and that McD's is about the only one I have seen in the city that is not usually totally packed out.

If I were you I would try the smaller provincial cities, far easier there I think. Even if you got a place in Kiev you could get the girl to come in by train as its cheap enough. A lot less competition out in the provincial cities and the girls are more eager and less spoilt by choice they would have in Kiev.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on October 28, 2019, 07:49:29 PM

If I were you I would try the smaller provincial cities, far easier there I think.
Even if you got a place in Kiev you could get the girl to come in by train as its cheap enough.

I didn't have any luck with this 'bused in or trained in' approach.
The gals arrive very tired and are still tired the next day.
By the time they are fully recovered; it's time for them to head back to their city.
Also, if it appears within a few minutes that the two of you are totally incompatible . . .
you are still stuck with her (if you are a gentleman) for 2-4 days.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 29, 2019, 03:52:37 AM
I didn't have any luck with this 'bused in or trained in' approach.
The gals arrive very tired and are still tired the next day.
By the time they are fully recovered; it's time for them to head back to their city.
Also, if it appears within a few minutes that the two of you are totally incompatible . . .
you are still stuck with her (if you are a gentleman) for 2-4 days.

True, I meant more for if Pat found a permanent girl in a provincial city as he doesn't like the extra journeying and he likes the vibrancy of Kiev. If the relationship later fell through then he could do the same with another provincial girl whereas if he stumped for buying a pad in a provincial city the next girl might come from a different provincial city many miles away and he could be stuck with a place he would then find useless.

Apparently many Ukrainian girls like to travel and interact on train journeys. I found one that didn't but managed to persuade her to travel to me by pointing out that I had already undertaken a big journey of driving to the airport, getting on a plane then taxi to the hotel, a journey of thousands of miles. Put like that she could see the logic of travelling to me. In the end though I decided to travel to her as I was intrigued to find out what this 'Nikolaev' was like.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 29, 2019, 04:18:29 AM
ML has a good point.Each time you let come an unknow woman you take the risk to screw up your time if no match (80% of time). In the best case smart people become good friends and move to have good time by making tourism.THe worst case is if the guy likes the woman, has fantasize on her but she dislikes him. Many guys couldn't get that she is disinterested due too many factors (cultural ukrainian politeness, lack of women  knowledge, balls too heavy in the pants) i takdalé. And so the situation is a mess and the guy starts to be rude.

Yes some women could understand that you have already accomplished a great journey and make the effort. It's only possible if you have raised enough traction in the relationship to a point that she considers you worthly enough to go. They don't have a lot of vacation, in legal job they have some but sometimes the boss don't want to let them go, for them it's not always easy i mean.
What i mean is that to get a girl ready to come to your city you have to invest already time and emotion, and that's not what you want.

THe last thing about asking them to come is that you will find a wagon of girls interested to make tourism, good restaurant, for free. SOme could even join pay you in sex if they don't dislike you, but this is not serious and you will go nowhere if your quest is to find a real match.In addition, for a first meeting, you loose a lot of important informations if you date her in an other city. Some girls could perfectly plays double game or be paid for the travel but consider this is worth to go because they have some relatives there and so on.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 31, 2019, 01:39:13 AM
For the moment i am facing a new challenge.
Which is when exactly start to contact girls.
Knowing that i am at J-7 before departure.

This damned Tinder has stalled and now also Badoo. My age starts to fight against me.
As Trench was saying there are some group age that are etablishing some psychological fence.
It was already like this in the local dating a decade ago.
A lot of people would lie about their age of two or three years, just to stay below the 40, 39 maximum exactly.

I am physically great, even athletic and had recently GF minus 19, minus 17, minus 11, minus 10, and minus 6. None of those women could follow me in many things. In general i perform better in a meeting than in internet.

So now i have to work on the pool i have etablished on both sites. It will be a mess at the end because you have to contact five girls at least to have anappointment for the considered evening.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 31, 2019, 01:43:10 AM
I found out my previous ukrainian sim card  :D And could put some credit on it, it's very easy.
A lot of ukrainian sites are really well programmed.
So now i have a +380
Which i will also use in my country as a buffer mobile phone for all the dirty advertising.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 31, 2019, 03:11:51 AM
So now i am making a list, the Tinder one to prepare some "hook" message.
One of the trap is after a while you don't know if the girl is from the city you are aiming for.
Rather than to start a stupid communication and mislead the ladies it's better to sort out who you have to let apart.
Fortunately the mileage between you and her is indicated.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 31, 2019, 09:04:50 AM
I have also did the same with Badoo, which works a little differently.
The main advantage is that you know if the ladies are still active or dead.By the way a lot of sites brag having 10 millions of subscribers but in fact 5 are dead.
So of course i start by the top list generally, the ones you really want to see. But not only.
That's also a travel and i have always found interesting to meet new people and go without any pressure or expectation.If they are open and interesting and have the same way of thinking it could be fun.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 31, 2019, 01:23:34 PM
I have also did the same with Badoo, which works a little differently.
The main advantage is that you know if the ladies are still active or dead.By the way a lot of sites brag having 10 millions of subscribers but in fact 5 are dead.
So of course i start by the top list generally, the ones you really want to see. But not only.

That's handy Pat, I've found that with most of the online International/FSU dating websites too. If it's a big city and/or website is one of the bigger websites it's generally not too bad. It's a shame that Mamba messed up their website as they used to have a lot of women with recent logins.

In a smaller city such as Lviv it doesn't take long before all of the girls are quickly gone through, about a week will probably do it. Not all reply so getting up girls isn't always easy. Then like you say Pat are the ones that have been dead a long time and 9 times out of 10 are a waste of time contacting or it takes them ages to get back to you.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 01, 2019, 12:25:33 PM
In Kiev you have the advantage to have a continuous mainstream of ladies.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 01, 2019, 12:46:20 PM
In Kiev you have the advantage to have a continuous mainstream of ladies.

Also very strange in that city of 3-4 million folks . . .

Three times I was noticed by a gal I was spending some time with, when I was spending time with a second gal!!

One gal even walked up beside me, squeezed my elbow briefly, and then walked on without saying a word. 
Of course she refused my later invitation for another date.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 01, 2019, 12:51:20 PM
So fellows things are not so bad.
I have in city2 a lady that i have hooked two weeks ago. We daily exchange at least one message, except this week during few days
because she has changed of phone or whatever reason (i don't care). The communication happens only in russian.
I called her already twice so this is a solid hook.
I have no real certainty about her photos so we will see on spot.
Because the connection is quite high i have not reconnected with my ex mistress of the last summer, and the xorowaa blondinka that i met in july, who is not really interested in me, anyway. I just dropped a message to an other one who i really want to meet her from june. But i think her profile is dead.

In city 1 i had a contact through badoo in june with a nice lady of 39 but i had left the city before she contacted me back. So all is fine we have setup to go to the opera the evening i arrive in the city. All are going very smoothly and very easy. This what i like the most with FSU ladies. All could be done like a rocket.
To be honest i date her first "friendly", i mean she is not a target but who knows? We could be attracted to each other.
Two ladies on Tinder on my top list have been contacted but one of them removed the match lol, and the second maybe she has emigrated on Mars last year, who knows.I also contacted two ladies on Badoo, of top list. One still didn't read my message. And the second has answered, but i am really careful as i am afraid of to be victim of "an other keybord romeo, a liar who lets believe that he lives in the city". So simply when she gives you her phone number, like in any country that a good hook. She hasn't reply to my initiative to talk each other yet, we will see what happens.
On the top list i have a third one who have liked me, so i believe that this one could meet seriously me but the previous i wrote about had a better ranking.

As you see i am very picky and push each pawn very attentively.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 01, 2019, 05:04:14 PM
So now in city 1 situation starts to be complicated.

One of the two Badoo top list has answered.
She barely wrote, i would meet you maybe, but convince me by explaining me why ukrainian girls.
That's normal, quite usual. That's in their blood, they are suspicious.
Please note that except the one i met just after my landing, none are speaking english (or supposed to).

So how i am going to get through this first salvo of Atoll missile?
I will start by writing you know westerners usually answer that FSU women are more feminine and american women are not family oriented andbla bla.... может бить
In fact i had lived in civilisation A during my first 20 years of life. And last decade of my life happens in your. I am used to your culture, i like Ukraine,I like the culture and i have more and more personal history here. I found the mix an incredible source of joy and a shared personal enrichment even if sometimes it's more eggy due to the misunderstanding.


So technically it starts to be complicated because you have 3 days and half and if all is fine 3 ladies to see. THe logic is she likes you and you like her you reset a second date. Second date are going to bump into a second or first date of an other lady. Therefore you loose her interest and very likely the girl.
You need to have a military thinking about how to manage the time in city1. You will have very likely some losses, and sometimes you will have to make some kill yourself, the goal is to save a maximum of life, or to save the president, the lady the most important;But you don't know who will the president of ths short trip. considering that first you have to see all the contenders.
ANd eve a first meeting with someone don't necessary give the certainty that SHE is the president to save.

I smell them, i need to know how they move, how the talk, how they touch me, the depth of their eyes, the beauty of their shoes, the mathematical worl about their manucure To decide who will be the queen, the president.

i WOULD like to keep all of them, love all of them but that is not possible in the reality
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: JayH on November 01, 2019, 05:41:14 PM
Also very strange in that city of 3-4 million folks . . .

Three times I was noticed by a gal I was spending some time with, when I was spending time with a second gal!!

One gal even walked up beside me, squeezed my elbow briefly, and then walked on without saying a word. 
Of course she refused my later invitation for another date.

It can happen easily enough !
Some years ago ( quite a few in fact !)   --in a period when in an off phase with my long term on/off  ex -- I met  with a girl who  gave me the whole agency run around plus terp deal to agree to meet  etc. Over the course of the afternoon in doing the normal run around the sucker deal  I heard her comments to the terp ( even back then I understood  a little Russian enough to get the gist of what she said) and it was enough to wise me up etc.
At the end of the afternoon she starting making excuses why she had to go  to family occasion  that evening so that was it for the day.
         I had already decided that was a done deal-- move on etc and had no intention of any follow up once the afternoon was over.So -- in the evening -back to the computer  and see what could be done at short notice --in a "I am here- can we meet now "  deal !
         So -- Katya says ok- can I bring a friend with me. So at  10pm we hook up in a popular well known cafe in the city .  No pretence meeting-lots of laughing and   good fun conversation without all the ridiculous agency BS of earlier. So-- in walks the girl from the afternoon meeting ! It unfolded that they went to the same  school and studied languages -- and both spoke excellent English .
        So-- girl one is unhappy with me big time and chews my ear off telling me -- I am bemused for all the obvious reasons. She wants to meet me next day -- but I tell her I have already arranged to meet Katya etc.
       So-  I agree to meet the following morning  and explain the obvious too her . She is amused that I went along with crazy agency deal despite knowing it was attempt to take me for a ride -- and that she had made it clear she was not interested in me by what she had said to terp ( as it turned out-- she was  also a school friend!) . She was very shocked that I understood   any of this .
      Later -- we became good friends and I used her to translate and interpret   for me ( & do chores)  . She is now married to a local guy and now have 2 children.  Katya -- eventually made her way to New York  and still lives there today. 

It was not the only time this sort of thing happened - so can relate to ML's experiences ! :)   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on November 01, 2019, 06:23:30 PM
French-Ukrainian Colonel Klink.  :P

You need to give yourself time for "recon", and have a schedule that doesn't involve dating. That way you get a nice cultural experience - philharmonic orchestras and the ballet/opera can be rather inexpensive in the FSU. If your language skills are good then other theatrical performances are worth checking out.

You may run into a lady at the theater too. I ended up chatting with a (male) surgeon the last time I went to the high-end theater in Russia.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 02, 2019, 01:08:49 PM
French-Ukrainian Colonel Klink.  :P

You need to give yourself time for "recon", and have a schedule that doesn't involve dating. That way you get a nice cultural experience - philharmonic orchestras and the ballet/opera can be rather inexpensive in the FSU. If your language skills are good then other theatrical performances are worth checking out.

You may run into a lady at the theater too. I ended up chatting with a (male) surgeon the last time I went to the high-end theater in Russia.
When i have spare time it's what i am going. I go for a walk, i explore the surroundings, go to the museum and now i am hitting social events. So in Kiev you have events every day.
I already have been to the concert and opera one time each.
I love it.
And women so i suppose.
Theater i will not go because the main problem is that ukrainian language is spreading vs russian language. And i learn russian not ukrainian.
Dating for me includes some reco.Last time in Dnepro i tried to find some club outside the city to spend the whole day, swimming and sunbathing, i was a little short in time to do it. But i did this already in Kharkov. At night a big dancing party is happening there.
I love to go and discover new things.
Last time in Dnipro we were in Bartolemo, one of the biggest club of Ukraine. We = me and a couple of friends.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 02, 2019, 01:17:24 PM
quote :
"One of the two Badoo top list has answered.
She barely wrote, i would meet you maybe, but convince me by explaining me why ukrainian girls.
That's normal, quite usual. That's in their blood, they are suspicious.
Please note that except the one i met just after my landing, none are speaking english (or supposed to).

So how i am going to get through this first salvo of Atoll missile?
I will start by writing you know westerners usually answer that FSU women are more feminine and american women are not family oriented andbla bla.... может бить
In fact i had lived in civilisation A during my first 20 years of life. And last decade of my life happens in your. I am used to your culture, i like Ukraine,I like the culture and i have more and more personal history here. I found the mix an incredible source of joy and a shared personal enrichment even if sometimes it's more eggy due to the misunderstanding."
So i wrote this and got the answer. I passed the test with flying colors.
And Это всеSo when you are a westener and you got something like "nice answer" you are normally bewildered.

Nothing wrong guys, you are the man; you need to pursue her now.  You are allowed to chase her.  You need now go ahead. And invite her.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 05, 2019, 02:37:42 AM
So now i am almost packing.
In city 1 we have now a rendez vous the day i land in the city.
And the day after i have a rendez vous with an other lady.

The third one is not so interested. She agreed to chit chat prior my venue. But when i asked for her phone, she didn't answer.
I would say the chances are not much as 30%.
So now the best is to land in her city (NO other message) and say something like : i am now in you city i would be very glad to see you. Tell me what you want to do.

I could invent some reasons to explain this or this....But there is one valuable i thaught about
which is

some will deny me BECAUSE it's clearly stated in my profile that i would relocate at least partially.
That means, for the women who have REALLY read my profile (but women in general tend to reach text, men to only see the photos) that is a NO NO for all those who expected to move on and rely on a marriage.
Finally they disqualify themselves and it shows their clear intention.
Not so bad finally  :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 05, 2019, 08:15:43 AM
So now i am almost packing.
In city 1 we have now a rendez vous the day i land in the city.
And the day after i have a rendez vous with an other lady.

The third one is not so interested. She agreed to chit chat prior my venue. But when i asked for her phone, she didn't answer.
I would say the chances are not much as 30%.
So now the best is to land in her city (NO other message) and say something like : i am now in you city i would be very glad to see you. Tell me what you want to do.

I could invent some reasons to explain this or this....But there is one valuable i thaught about
which is

some will deny me BECAUSE it's clearly stated in my profile that i would relocate at least partially.
That means, for the women who have REALLY read my profile (but women in general tend to reach text, men to only see the photos) that is a NO NO for all those who expected to move on and rely on a marriage.
Finally they disqualify themselves and it shows their clear intention.
Not so bad finally  :P

That's the thing Pat, unfortunately some women see the process as a guy bring a stepping stone through which they step on for a while before jumping onto the next best thing. They will do marriage to get into a good western country and then once there, settled with legal status they will jump off into the next stepping stone once they see a better deal for them, a better guy for them, etc.

The 'immigration mule' term is even perhaps a bit basic to describe these women. There not all necessarily looking to just use the guy to get in the country. They want a better way of life and will look to stay with the guy who brings them in possible a fair while longer than the legal minimum for legal status and in other cases not so. In some cases if they find a guy they feel is better and willing to vouch for them instead on their legal status they will go with him. I feel these girls are more opportunitists and the 'stepping stone' view suits them more. Some may actually hang around a time until they find someone oh so much better.

In my few visits abroad I have been dubious of some of the women I met and online also. I find Belarus is where women want out of that country and will use any line of approach to cover their actual intention.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 05, 2019, 08:19:16 AM
. . . the beauty of their shoes . . .

WOW Pat . . . that's one item that was never on my check list !!!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 05, 2019, 11:19:23 AM
The beauty of their shoes ... and the beauty of their feet.

Both combined in a way
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on November 05, 2019, 11:47:06 AM
I find Belarus is where women want out of that country and will use any line of approach to cover their actual intention.

I find most 'findings' of yours to be tripe and this is another case

Unlike you, I know plenty of BY women who want a good man, but are fussy about 'exporting' themselves ...


As ever, you simply cannot understand most women...BY, RU, UA or the UK.(

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 05, 2019, 02:13:02 PM
I find most 'findings' of yours to be tripe and this is another case

Unlike you, I know plenty of BY women who want a good man, but are fussy about 'exporting' themselves ...


As ever, you simply cannot understand most women...BY, RU, UA or the UK.(

Mobe BY women want to get away from their President and the system they live in. They don't know that other countries have their downsides too, they think other western countries are near paradise, but of course they will be assailed with a lot of foreign guys, many with not good intention, that doesn't include me ;)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 05, 2019, 03:09:42 PM
The world is very rarely black or white.It's always somehow grey.
So determining the inside expectations of a woman is a difficult exercise.
Many, i say many would like to find a "good man" anyway.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on November 06, 2019, 03:00:46 AM
Mobe BY women want to get away from their President and the system they live in. They don't know that other countries have their downsides too, they think other western countries are near paradise, but of course they will be assailed with a lot of foreign guys, many with not good intention, that doesn't include me ;)

Trench,

How many BY ladies do you know?

I have one married to a UK guy..( nearly 20 years)  living nearby and she is now the bread winner...The guy is unwell and unable to work full time.

She has a hard life.

You suggest BY ladies only have an aim to get out of BY .... so marrying a westerner will 'solve' all their problems..

Elena is but one example..

Another, married an Itai guy and left him ....moved back to BY with her son..



More clueless twaddle from Trench.



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 06, 2019, 10:01:49 AM
Well on another note Pat what are your thoughts on things getting too familiar?

While I find familiarity handy I've got to say my first time in a city usually brings with it a real sense of excitement. Different stuff I'm not accustomed too, not knowing what's where or its relevance, unexplored areas to myself, etc, etc and what the place and people are about.

That's what I kind of liked about Minsk, as I had been to a few cities in Ukraine by then Minsk was like a new take on it all, and of course Moscow too.

Kiev was the first city I went to in the FSU and the first lady I met there. When I first got there I didn't know where in the hell I was and it was all pretty alien to me. Fortunately the lady I met turned out to be a good tour guide :) even though nothing else happened for us.

I would say though it is only this year on my third visit to Kiev that familiarity came to me, particularly towards the end. Basically connecting the dots of previous visits and places visited.

I agree with you Pat that recon of a city is important and the less familiar a city is the more recon becomes helpful. I think that a lot can be learned even in a familiar city by a bit of recon on up to date info on everyday fashion, places where women go, local habits, and how people behave, etc.

I'm not sure though if there comes a point where practicality of a familiar city is outweighed by it no longer having the allure of the unfamiliar. I think for me while oh so many of the women are undoubtedly hit in Kiev it's a place that may at some point get unexcitingly familiar to me.

Still the Ukrainian way of life I have come to much admire, their laid back nature and different cultural ways to ourselves. Stuff that happens there that doesn't here, the more positive stuff I mean.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 06, 2019, 12:43:09 PM
Well on another note Pat what are your thoughts on things getting too familiar?

While I find familiarity handy I've got to say my first time in a city usually brings with it a real sense of excitement. Different stuff I'm not accustomed too, not knowing what's where or its relevance, unexplored areas to myself, etc, etc and what the place and people are about.

That's what I kind of liked about Minsk, as I had been to a few cities in Ukraine by then Minsk was like a new take on it all, and of course Moscow too.

Kiev was the first city I went to in the FSU and the first lady I met there. When I first got there I didn't know where in the hell I was and it was all pretty alien to me. Fortunately the lady I met turned out to be a good tour guide :) even though nothing else happened for us.

I would say though it is only this year on my third visit to Kiev that familiarity came to me, particularly towards the end. Basically connecting the dots of previous visits and places visited.

I agree with you Pat that recon of a city is important and the less familiar a city is the more recon becomes helpful. I think that a lot can be learned even in a familiar city by a bit of recon on up to date info on everyday fashion, places where women go, local habits, and how people behave, etc.

I'm not sure though if there comes a point where practicality of a familiar city is outweighed by it no longer having the allure of the unfamiliar. I think for me while oh so many of the women are undoubtedly hit in Kiev it's a place that may at some point get unexcitingly familiar to me.

Still the Ukrainian way of life I have come to much admire, their laid back nature and different cultural ways to ourselves. Stuff that happens there that doesn't here, the more positive stuff I mean.
What you say applies to Dnipro which the city i know now the most.
So yes i am barely fed up with Dnipro. However here i have some dental work to do and i have some people i know and with whom i keep in touch.
Kiev is a very different vibe, which i want to explore. It's so vivid, so big that you need a lot of time. Like every big city the possibility are big even it's probably limited compared to Paris or London or Berlin.
The big plus is to know people and start some friendship. The true value of getting deep in a culture comes by the people and not by tourism.
A girlfriend could be handy but not the best option : A/ they don't want to expose you too much to other hungry pussies B/ they could push you in some direction to avoid you to have a too much understanding of some things around you, that will be not necessary a plus for her.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 06, 2019, 02:01:21 PM
You are not going to believe this one.

As i am definitively packing, i was finishing to write (trying only ...) to the three women with whom i am in contact.
I got an other message from a mistress i had in the beginning of the year. She wanted me to call her asap.
So she wanted to see me next week end. I calmly explained that i was in a trip in Ukraine. The fact is ... she is also ukrainian, living in France.And then she told me that she will be free because her husband is himself in Ukraine and she can follow me the weekend in Ukraine. How can i say?I felt few seconds to be in a crazy world, i love this world, his extravagance !I love those crazy women who crave to see me, full of their desire and their life аппетит  :P
But is seemed too much complicated, having already an appointment thursday and friday.

But lets me think about...  :popcorn: She is the one i like in the bed the most since my marriage  :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on November 06, 2019, 02:08:57 PM
She is the one i like in the bed the most since my marriage  :P

Does her husband own a gun?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 06, 2019, 02:38:24 PM
Does her husband own a gun?
Don't know.
But i can say that her wife is not a virgin.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Davo on November 06, 2019, 06:04:55 PM
Does her husband own a gun?

It’s not the guys with guns you need to worry about 😉

There’s a certain pleasure using your bare hands as a betrayed husband. I experienced this 20 years ago when I threw my best mate and child hood friend through his bedroom window. Poor bastard almost bleed out and spent time in intensive care with a severed artery in his leg, before being “persuaded” to disappear.

I’ve matured over the years. The last guy I shook his hand and bought him a beer for taking the worst mistake of my life off my hands. In hindsight I think I’d rather take my chances being thrown through a window than marry her like this sucker did.

Told this story a few time over the years and it caught the attention of a guy online who also used his hands. He king hit the affair partner and the guy never woke up. He did time for manslaughter...... just a precautionary tale 😏



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 02:49:54 AM
Generally the anger of the cheated men turns against the intruder.
However this anger should be first oriented toward the woman.

Men are likely the same, even with a tie, a suit or 20 years of studies, many just want to put their flagpole in a nice hole.

So as an engaged woman, married woman should say no, no i am not interested, no i am married, and nothing will happen or it's a rape, severely punished by the law.
It happens, because they desire it, passively or actively, generally by the venusian female art of seduction

Now don't get me wrong, men also cheat. IMHO as much as women.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 02:58:17 AM
To clarify more about married women.
I am not an addict of such relationship and for a variety of reasons.
It happened in the begining of my life and i didn't renew with it last 25 years, except recently.

My morale treshold as lowered however to mirror the collapse of our western societies who are going down and down month after month. That's a fact.


I remember you that pickup artists (i am not) consider, by experience (by statistics if you prefer which means objective facts rather than subjective opinion) that married women give the easiest chance to get an ONS.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 03:00:55 AM
So yesterday, few time before get dressed to the opera i texted a message to the lady with whom we should go.
She started to speak about saturday rather than thurday. And after that no other messages.
Finally i went alone  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 03:07:39 AM
I got the end of the story when i was back.
She misleaded the date very likely because of her lack of skill in english.
So she first didn't want to recognize her mistake --> traditional cultural ukrainian signature.
Now we have a second first real meeting soon And i have an other one around 6 i think.

I contacted an other woman who wants to date casually or friendly but it turned out the first minutes that she wanted to date exclusively, which is more how it works in Ukraine. She disqualified herself after that by saying that she smokes and i don't smoke and so on. Funny.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 03:16:32 AM
For the moment true Badoo seems to give more benefit than Tinder. Last time it was the opposite.
All of this depends of their shitty algorithm so you never know if women really see you or if you have been sent at the bottom of the photo carroussel. I read weirds things about Tinder for this.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 03:20:39 AM
Last time i was in what i considered the best appartment i never had had. Because of the location, silence and so on.
This time i got one better.
That's an elite appartment in Kiev.
I love it, kanechna
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on November 08, 2019, 08:45:29 AM
I got the end of the story when i was back.
She misleaded the date very likely because of her lack of skill in english.
So she first didn't want to recognize her mistake --> traditional cultural ukrainian signature.
Now we have a second first real meeting soon And i have an other one around 6 i think.

I contacted an other woman who wants to date casually or friendly but it turned out the first minutes that she wanted to date exclusively, which is more how it works in Ukraine. She disqualified herself after that by saying that she smokes and i don't smoke and so on. Funny.

A,

Smoking for me is a lifestyle issue.  So many activities are impacted by a woman who needs to smoke.  So, at the onset, I would tell them that if they are a smoker, they should look for a smoker.   And go on to the next one.   Good choice.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 08, 2019, 08:46:18 AM
So yesterday, few time before get dressed to the opera i texted a message to the lady with whom we should go.
She started to speak about saturday rather than thurday. And after that no other messages.
Finally i went alone  :ROFL:

Pat, I am a little bit lost.

Are you now in Ukraine or still in France?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on November 08, 2019, 08:51:31 AM
If he went to the opera, that is in Kyiv.   I love that opera house.   And close by is the Opera Hotel, which I also have enjoyed staying in.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 08, 2019, 09:29:12 AM
If he went to the opera, that is in Kyiv.   I love that opera house.   And close by is the Opera Hotel, which I also have enjoyed staying in.

No opera in all of France . . . I didn't know that.

But sure, I have been to the Opera in Kyiv a dozen times or more.

However, not for opera; rather, only for Assemblé, Grande Jeté, Plié, Pirouette, Tour en l'air, etc.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on November 08, 2019, 09:44:28 AM
No opera in all of France . . . I didn't know that.

But sure, I have been to the Opera in Kyiv a dozen times or more.

However, not for opera; rather, only for Assemblé, Grande Jeté, Plié, Pirouette, Tour en l'air, etc.

Very funny!   Just don't see A going to an opera in France by himself after his date, a Ukrainian woman, flakes.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 11:55:35 AM
ML , Jone, my friends. I am in Ukraine since yesterday.
Currently betweendate 1 and date 2.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 12:00:54 PM
Newbies.
Who want to manage multiples dates in Ukraine.
You have to toughen your game in proportion of 1/ size of the city 2/ scale beauty of the lady 3/ her proficiency in english especially. All factors combined should be co'sidered.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 08, 2019, 12:36:57 PM
So she first didn't want to recognize her mistake --> traditional cultural ukrainian signature.


No, you are mistaken.  This is definitely not traditional Ukrainian culture.  It comes from Soviet culture, and is a Soviet cultural trait.  You would not have seen this as a trait among Ukrainians or Russians who either escaped the Revolution, or who grew up before the Soviets gained control of Ukraine.  You are dealing with the remnants of homo Sovieticus. Don't assume their characteristics have anything to do with the culture that came before them.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Davo on November 08, 2019, 04:26:51 PM
Generally the anger of the cheated men turns against the intruder.
However this anger should be first oriented toward the woman.

Men are likely the same, even with a tie, a suit or 20 years of studies, many just want to put their flagpole in a nice hole.

So as an engaged woman, married woman should say no, no i am not interested, no i am married, and nothing will happen or it's a rape, severely punished by the law.
It happens, because they desire it, passively or actively, generally by the venusian female art of seduction

Now don't get me wrong, men also cheat. IMHO as much as women.

Yeah it took me a while to focus my attention on the real issue.... my Ex. I’d never once taken her to task over her cheating except for the last guy. I caught her trying to climb out a window in the middle of the night and gave her the biggest tongue lashing she’d ever received. I had her in the fetal position on the floor 😁

Honestly I don’t care what others do in their personal life anymore, as long as they treat me with respect. For example, on the last night of my trip earlier this year I met a Russian pilot who has an Aussie copilot.  It was the most random thing that happened to me when I was in Russia. When I checked in to my hotel the guy behind me said “G’day mate” with a slight Aussie bogan accent and we chatted for 10 minutes. Later he invited me out for dinner with his GF then we drank in the hotel bar till 3am, before I caught a taxi to the airport in Krasnodar. His GF is a local and is also his mistress. He grew up there also, but has a wife who lives in Ufa. A few years ago I wouldn’t have had anything to do with a guy like this but it seems that it’s a pretty common occurrence in Russia, so I won’t judge him.

On a side note our friendship has worked out well. I’ve been introduced to some of his GF’s single friends online and now her sister also. He works in Southeast Asia and in a few weeks he’s visiting my city and I’m taking him into the out back. Then we are flying out together to meet his GF and her sister in Vietnam for a holiday. He owns a luxury apartment there, with great views of the beach (pic below). It’s pretty obvious I’m getting set up with her sister, but she seems very nice and has the physical features I’m attracted to. I’m not complaining at all..... 10 days relaxing on a tropical beach with an attractive Russian woman sounds like fun to me ))))

Trench, maybe this is a better way for you, than gimmicks. Forget meeting women, go and meet Ukrainian guys and en”trench” yourself in their friendship circles. You will have the perfect wingmen and really who better to give advice on FSU women than FSU men. My Russian mate got to the bottom of the last girls problems in no time all.

Sorry for side tracking your post Pat. I’ve been following it keenly as I was considering a WMVM trip next year, before the recent opportunity presented it’s self.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 05:26:08 PM

No, you are mistaken.  This is definitely not traditional Ukrainian culture.  It comes from Soviet culture, and is a Soviet cultural trait.  You would not have seen this as a trait among Ukrainians or Russians who either escaped the Revolution, or who grew up before the Soviets gained control of Ukraine.  You are dealing with the remnants of homo Sovieticus. Don't assume their characteristics have anything to do with the culture that came before them.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Thank you for this cultural detail Bo.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 05:40:05 PM
So just come back from date 1 and date 2.Get out from the flat at 17:00 and be back at 2:20 in the night.

You need to be physically and emotionaly ready to manage such day.

So let me tell you what happened in the day.

Date one told me that she could be free after massage. Add one hour to the given time and ring your bell at 17:00
Date 2 told me that she was free at 15:00
An other possible date told me that we can also meet, i proposed initially 12:00 but she was working till 14:00. And the rest of the day she could be only free between 14:00 and 19:00. It was technicaly not possible to meet her. She disqualified herself because she smokes and finally i let it go.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 05:47:12 PM
So all your fight of the day is to manage two, three better, dates in the day while none could detect obviously that you are dating an other one.And if all of them could like you that better, however you will fight day 2 especially if you have planned some new outsiders to come inside the circle.

But fortunately, considering that i have her only three days and half free, considering that it's also vacations i will stay on date 1 and date 2.

Also consider that i manage some communication with an other woman from city2 and spend some time today with a women of Rivne who was not only a pretty (8 minimum) but also could have been a match, but i think i lost this one because i made a mistake calibrating my questions.  Anyway i don't want to put too much energy to see her back because i consider that madame nature is well done and after a while you have to let it go. Odds helps you to choose the road.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 05:55:18 PM
Davo
No you don't hijack the topic. Every experience is valuable. And you make a point. If a woman can be bring from a local friend, male or female, that's golden.
Some friends of mine introduced me one year ago to a young woman. I made an other trip few days in Ukraine to spend more time with her. That didn't work to make it short. But i liked the experience.
SO you are right, if Trench could step in the russian or ukrainian societies it could be helpful. But that's not so easy at the end. Maybe easier to get acquainted in England with slavic circles.
I think that anyway you have to learn the language.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 06:09:54 PM
So guys, you know about profiles, you have to come back early in this topic to know the survey i made in 2011, that many are getting a lifting. Photoshop, old photos, women behind a tree (no it's not a joke), behind some glasses. Some women you have the top but never the bottom.

Guys last ten years i have edited and bring under scrutiny thousands of profiles, so i can detect the bogus, the rogue very often in few seconds. I cannot complain with this "experimented intuition", Since one year i date through Tinder and Badoo in Ukraine i haven't been disappointed.

And date1 was no exception.

No guys sorry, that was better.

This woman was more beautiful than her photos. Incredible face for her age. She is slim but i like her. Like she is. You have always a  false understanding of someone because you are projecting your own world on her. Of course she is different. She is a unique person.

And between date1 and date2 you cannot make more different women in every sense of the word.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 06:11:55 PM
DavoBy the wayI would have prefered a photo of this sister rather than the beach  :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 06:17:37 PM
But  let me tell you that before date1 i had to overcome many things.
Yes it's not like agencies in the past i was using to.
With agencies you are two to work in one direction : get a date on the right time. The agency makes money each time and the girl must show elseif agency losts money. And your interest is to get a maximum of date in the schedule.
But without agency you cannot say : look 17:00 that's not possible because i will start a date at 16:00 and if the girl is late it will be difficult to be on time.

So you need to technically to you give some space. There are two ways to get it.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 06:34:50 PM
Initially date2 should arrive to 15:00.
That's of course technicaly a mistake. too short
Often the women who lives in Ukraine are not on time.
Some will let the mystery endures to test you. That's part of the game their game.

So you have to give you me more space by getting more room between two dates.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 06:41:37 PM
As i realized that date2 could arrive too late and collided date1 i jumped on an important information that she gave me. She asked my agreement to take a taxi because she lives far.
So to give you more space you need a pretext. It's an other activity, whatever, a job, a hobby that could distract you and strike your time. And that should be natural. You can understand that the girl could leave you to help her son, go to work. But YOU? you are in vacations, nothing to do the whole day. That's bad of course.
As any time in the game you have to have a life, even in vacation. It makes you more interesting and less needy, and so again more interesting.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 06:44:16 PM
So i explained to date2 that i had a russian lesson (don't start to give too much details) and that would be better to date in the evening because it makes no sense for her to do a big travel for just one hour or one hour and half.

SO you get it right from the scratch, you save your ass.
You can see also how is she compliant.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on November 08, 2019, 06:46:33 PM
A -

Davo's real name is date2 and she's spying on you.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 06:47:31 PM
So why such a day could be so tiring, physically and emotionally? Both are linked of course. 
Because you are going to go through many bumps. This like wars, on the map you always win, on the field that quite different, that's why as frenchs we lost four 1870, first world war, second world war and Indochine. Our top officers were the best, on the map.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 06:48:17 PM
A -

Davo's real name is date2 and she's spying on you.
Jone you are a coquin.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 06:57:05 PM
So with date1 the communication last two days was minimalist. Even if i tried to send one message per day. So the day of the meeting i proposed to meet at an appropriate meeting place.
Newbies : kick your ass to find a sport to meet her, that's important.
And you can see, Baddo tells you that she hasn't read the message. And the time goes by.
SHe had an appointment at 16:00, supposed to be free. And nothing no life on board.

So knowing how it works you get out from your flat to aim to the meeting point because she can comes out of the blue and write you in 2 seconds "where are you, i am in front of "meeting point"" it already happened to me ... so
And now you are waiting, not at the meeting point, in a nice restaurant nearby of course, comfortably seated. But you don't even know if she would ever come.
hé hé
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 07:04:13 PM
And now it's 17:45 see the problem? 
And you would like to come back to your flat to manage date2 later in the evening.
You start to feel some impatience, a slighty anger you would like to express. But you don't have her phone and she didn't come to Badoo the whole day.
It's now time to calm down.
You have written to her all is crystal clear,  meeting point, willingness to meet.
Write a second message ? To tell what? That's you are angry, will not help you.Tell her that in your culture it's bad education. Bad, very bad. You judge her and anyway you have no idea, she could have no battery right now and needs one hour to get some juice.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 07:05:39 PM
Suddenly 17:58 you get a message on Badoo, she is alive aiming to the meeting point, your chance.  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 07:16:56 PM
Gamers : don't play the 'i am the price" super bonus.
 
You have to guarantee your capital and don't losoe the interest with it.
She is asking like "we meet?" Question, QUESTION guys
So you immediately answer
horosho, where are you?
She writes you where is she, she gives you additionally her personal phone number and gives you a estimated time of her arrival (false of 300%) but at this point who cares ??? 
 So she really wants to meet you man. THe rest is detail. But it's because of those details, that jump in your face, that you loose a date. 
 
So you are the man
 THe camp is dressed, you have get off the saddle of the horse, you are confortably seated on a rock with you sword beside you.

just whistle to her  : come on i'm waiting you.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 08, 2019, 07:26:32 PM
It could seem to be needy to monitor your telephone, and to immediately answer to her.

But you will have no second chance, she would maybe have waited for a while, don't know how much minutes, and after would have take the back way. And as many of women have some travel to do, don't expect her to return to the center city.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Davo on November 08, 2019, 10:22:01 PM
A -

Davo's real name is date2 and she's spying on you.


Hhaaaa....

If Pats profile pic is actually him he might be in with half a chance. I like brunettes with small cleavages, dark eyes and high cheek bones..... Some duct tape in the right areas, a little black cocktail dress, some red lipstick and he can be my date number 2 in Vietnam..... Pat just a heads up, I like to hear lots of “Da’s” when we make love, preferably in your sexiest Slavic accent and if you can make pancakes half as good as the last woman for breakfast you’ll definitely be a keeper.   😂
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 09, 2019, 04:14:10 AM


Hhaaaa....

If Pats profile pic is actually him he might be in with half a chance. I like brunettes with small cleavages, dark eyes and high cheek bones..... Some duct tape in the right areas, a little black cocktail dress, some red lipstick and he can be my date number 2 in Vietnam..... Pat just a heads up, I like to hear lots of “Da’s” when we make love, preferably in your sexiest Slavic accent and if you can make pancakes half as good as the last woman for breakfast you’ll definitely be a keeper.   😂
da da da
followed by ещe
what a story
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 09, 2019, 04:49:52 AM
So newbies you should understand something.
On the beginning every profile you contact with minimal communication is   
JUST a profile.

You should represent it as a file of octets 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 1 0 Nothing less and you manage to get through and meet a real person while respecting a minimum social  rules nothing more nothing less.
This is like maths, you don't put emotions, feelings in maths, just logical thinking.

When you have met this lady things start to make sense, and depending of how she treats you you start to respect her.

Everything is to be explored, the thrust comes step by step and contrary to our western conventions you have to erase your whole rules system about this.

Exploring the universe with the sum of two personalities is so rich. Even if nothing happens please learn at least one thing of every woman you meet.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 09, 2019, 04:51:28 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHTx0mhRFws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHTx0mhRFws)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 09, 2019, 04:57:31 AM
By listening this song you should get an understanding of the local soul (душа). Ok i take the risk that Bo kicks my ass if i say something wrong  8) :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 09, 2019, 04:58:30 AM
A good compil i personaly like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM8lVZN9MVQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM8lVZN9MVQ)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 09, 2019, 05:18:14 AM
It was time to take the underside and recover my soul with zalataya padouchka 
   
Me relevant la nuit, perdu dans la blancheur des draps, le linceul de ma vie aux portes des pleurs, 
I reverse the throttle i magou picat the name of her, or she could come back from all this years who had made the man an invisible lover       
;
Mais aujourd'hui rouka rouka je chante des psaumes dans le pré argenté et je dessine des carrés de sable dans la profondeur de l'été.   
   
Ya mechtao s taboy o karablax, lorsque le fin dessin de leurs coques tranchent la coque amère de tant de rêves desséchés qui s'étaient entêtés dans le bonheur de ne jamais exister   
   
Every morning i ride the black Corvette into the port, i hope to renew with the souvenance particulière de Rebecca la Rebelle.   
   
C'est un sort qui le soir, peut vous perdre à tout jamais pachimou certse nié magla poctradat 
   
The blue lagoon from the very years of the young boy you will never been again is coming for real dans la scène du carré vert que je pressens lorsque Prévert s'est tû est que Cézanne a remisé les crayons de couleur.   
   
I will go  tomorrow to the fontain, tu erreras dans le patio à moitié nue et je serrerai ton coeur pour ne pas mourir seul.   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 09, 2019, 05:33:44 AM
So i was the witness of a date between a guy and his date from an agency plus the terp.

Don't know if this agency was legit, generally 95% of time that's shit.

But you can however pickup a nice lady if you know how to do it and more important it needs two to learn tango.

Just to tell you (i made a video, as an evidence) if you meet this type of, it makes any sense to stay more than one hour, even one hour it's a lot.

When you have a girl with the back touching the seat back, knees crossed, hands crossed on the beast, better to dig a tunnel between America and Europe ...

Don't confuse attraction and shyness, two differents things.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 09, 2019, 05:34:40 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl3AOxaVHuU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl3AOxaVHuU)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 09, 2019, 05:44:36 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afkfe-q62Uo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afkfe-q62Uo)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 09, 2019, 05:48:38 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es8cmid3j1s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es8cmid3j1s)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 09, 2019, 06:07:39 PM
So yesterday we left home at 18:20 and we are back at 02:40.   
I love my life in Ukraine !
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 09, 2019, 06:35:28 PM
So all your fight of the day is to manage two, three better, dates in the day while none could detect obviously that you are dating an other one.And if all of them could like you that better, however you will fight day 2 especially if you have planned some new outsiders to come inside the circle.

But fortunately, considering that i have her only three days and half free, considering that it's also vacations i will stay on date 1 and date 2.

Also consider that i manage some communication with an other woman from city2 and spend some time today with a women of Rivne who was not only a pretty (8 minimum) but also could have been a match, but i think i lost this one because i made a mistake calibrating my questions.  Anyway i don't want to put too much energy to see her back because i consider that madame nature is well done and after a while you have to let it go. Odds helps you to choose the road.
   
The woman of Rivne is not dead.
She came alive one day after my messages been sent saying "lets talk". I received her message while i was dating and didn't detect it as she directly contacted my on whatsapp.
Didn't see it the whole day. Except now in the taxi. I am in a middle of the night and in the middle of an unknow suburb my life only connected to this taxi.

ANd i was lucky she owns a photo that is the copy of her profile on Badoo.
So this woman is a secondary in the Jung psychological system.

Which means that what she does is thought in advance. And even if i pushed my questions a little far, which could seem rude, she liked because there was no BS, and no offence intended of course. 

I have to call this woman .
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 09, 2019, 11:25:36 PM
Technicaly date 1 was nice.
We spend one hour and half but as you know i had a russian lesson to go and that shortened our date. That was nice as I left while her interest was high.
I was supposed to come back home but i just made a little walk around while waiting date2 to come soon. 

So she smiled a lot and was deeply looking at me.
Enthousiast in the conversation, rebounding by herself, no need to force ourself to find a topic. Getting a laugh for any slight topic of amusement, leaning forward in her seat in my direction. Open body language, seated comfortably.
On the way back, walking on the sidewalk, few minutes, she was comfortable to walk close to me between four and ten inches.

She didn't want to eat anything we both drank a tea.

She has an incredible face for her age and she is prettiest than her photos.

GUYS go to gym, be in shape. Rather than to spend countless hours i don't know where learn russian ang go to the gym. I am an athlet which is mentionned in my profile. A lot of woman who take a high pride to stay fitted, which needs a lot of efforts, are not ready to date an overweighted and tired guy. Every athletic profile knows exactly what it is about, the girl i dated in date2 train herself between 10 and 15 hours per week. And we don't speak about teenagers, they are women around 40.
Their concern is, i suppose, to find a mature man but in shape. If they want a good ONS they can get a 25 years bodybuilded without any problem, there are tons ready to propose their stick.


 All the date happened in russian, no english or three words.I am interested in her, as you can guess. And our second date which lasted 7 hours don't let me disappointed. 
I have even gave her a compliment, and it's worth mentionning because i rarely do this on a first date. A compliment is  something that as nothing to do with her body, it's about an expression of her personality, a personal choice or something that can show you directly like her. The last one is obviously an IOI
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 09, 2019, 11:50:08 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANutQlJEvmk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANutQlJEvmk)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 10, 2019, 12:32:09 AM
Date2   
So you let go a woman you like and an other one is coming. You have already dropped a lot of energy in the vicinity. Additionnaly russian sucks you more than your native language or english language for which you have some proficiency.

First trap of date2 was that she lives exceptionnaly far.

So when the ongoing conversation came about our meeting she asked me if i would agree to pay the taxi.
At this second of course a bell rang in my head. Before saying yes, with a FSU woman you go to hell if you change after of opinion, i had to check this problem.

So i asked how much is it costing. 45$ back and forth. Woow
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 10, 2019, 12:59:14 AM
There are two types of men: 

The ones who are culturally used to say yes or lust oriented. Those ones in FSU are going to be rapidly fooled.   
The ones who are suspicious, mainly because they have been (generaly remotely by an internet agency) scammed or read too much but don't have experience. Those ones are going to often shot a bullet in their foot and finish in the bed with their right hand (they have an other hand if they are lefty). 

So i opened google map and asked where she was living. She gave me a name that i didn't find first sight, but i finally found out one, i send her the name in russian and she confirmed me that i hitted the right one.
My gosh, this little city, this village is very far, at least 80 kilometers, do you believe it.

So now it's time to take your bet, you say yes you will see her, you say no you will never hear about her again. You have two no?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 10, 2019, 02:28:15 AM
I said yes and worked a little to choose the restaurant. I let her to call it and book two seats.
She came on time and i was waiting in a bar to keep some energy.

When i cam downstairs to pickup her a surprise was waiting me.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 10, 2019, 02:38:22 AM
I had some photos of her. Obviously she was young on her photos.
But now i have a older woman in front on me.
And that was the real woman, and she was a quite hot brunette.
She speaks a nice english and we started to aim on foot to the restaurant. She knew how to go and i relied on her. Too much involved in the talk we missed the restaurant and got a 10 minutes penalty before entering it.

The restaurant is one of the best ukrainian cooking of the city but the prices are ok.
Rapidly she came to the corner of her sofa in the direction of my chair.
Rapidly she started to lean on one side in my direction. I pushed my chair close to her.

I got many compliment, we couldn't stop to talk. I could start to slightly stroke her back, finally let my hand on her. During the way back i could stroke her hair and so on.
I proposed to go to my place to avoid her to leave the city mid night explaining that i have a large appartment which let her some room to be confortable enough if she wanted to make the big move.

I had to propose it and i did, i did my job  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 10, 2019, 02:49:10 AM
She declined.

Oh i forgot to tell you. After the restaurant we walk still half an hour to go to a night supermarket. There i started to be nervous thinking that she could wait me to pay for her goods. it did'nt happen.

I have no reason to believe that she lied about her location. She called a taxi for her and for me and we split. The taxi cost me 3$.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on November 10, 2019, 07:56:14 AM
She declined.


Most women will decline sleeping with a man too early. They know the man will use it against them by labeling them a "Slut". Also there's some danger for a woman sleeping with a guy she just met and don't know much about.

I won't make any suggestions to go to my place on a first date. First win respect by showing restraint but you can still give signals to a woman that you're physically attracted to her. If a woman wants to sleep with a guy on a first date, she will let him know without him having to suggest it.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 10, 2019, 08:19:21 AM
Most women will decline sleeping with a man too early. They know the man will use it against them by labeling them a "Slut". Also there's some danger for a woman sleeping with a guy she just met and don't know much about.

I won't make any suggestions to go to my place on a first date. First win respect by showing restraint but you can still give signals to a woman that you're physically attracted to her. If a woman wants to sleep with a guy on a first date, she will let him know without him having to suggest it.


I absolutely do agree, it happened exactly like that with my ex GF in Kiev this summer.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 06:07:22 AM
 So i am now in city 2 

And girl of city2 with whom i am in contact for approximatively 3 weeks is telling me that she could'nt meet me during the week only saturday and sunday.   

Well that's strange, i asked where is she living, i suppose that she lives not in the city and quite far. If this is the case i can understand that they register on the name of the big city rather than the real name to improve their chances. 

I could understand them.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 06:08:47 AM
 So we have five days to chase in the city2. While boarding the train, i changed my location in Tinder and Badoo to earn a night. 

Mistake of girl1 in city2, her, not mine.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 06:11:07 AM
 So i want to come back to date1 of city1 as i finally met her 3 times for a total of 10 or 11 hours. Not considering that is big but it's already a solid connection.   
 After the first meeting of friday that i had already told you about, it was decided to etablish a list of interesting events in the city, share it and choose the one that fits us the most, accordingly. 

  She was the first to write about in the morning. 

When the choice had been done i had, my job as a man, to book and pay tickets by internet. I wasted half an hour using three credit cards and trying different ways to go through but never was successful. So i asked her to help.
 She struggled a lot like me even using mum card and so on and finally after i don't know half hour like me she got it. Cannot complain, when a woman works so hard for the meeting that's good.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 06:13:42 AM
 While i was just arriving to the adress of the concert she called me and it  quickly becomes obvious that i was not at the right adress. She started to be a little nervous but a bystander i had asked to help me entered the right adress in my phone and i knew that i could join it in 10 minutes.

While i was walking she called me again. I have an habit to give the approximate time lefting before arriving so people have a clear idea of how long they have to wait. I was confident in where i was and when i will arrive. Gps applications helps you a lot. Her stress vanished.   

At the very beginning of the concert i gave the money i owned to her. She wanted to pay her seat. I insisted, she finally get the money but didn't want to get the whole sum.
 
I started to cuddle her from the very beginning.   
At a moment i was not knowing if i was aiming in the right direction. So i let her alone.  But i could read through her body language that she was getting uncomfortable. I was having a mental fight, should i or not ? You know this typical fight you have with a woman when you couldn't go ahead crushing your time being a good man, wanting to avoid a refusal, fearing a misanderstanding and so on …     
Silly things that you start to be embarassed with since you are a young dude loving girls.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 06:34:10 AM
 So i touched her fingers very quickly like play with me. She changed her position on her seat to come closer to me and i wrapped her shoulders with my right hand. 

We had a very good vibe and a lot of fun. We shortenened the spectacle to be sure to have diner.

It took a while to find a restaurant that fits us, mainly because a lot were already closed or closing. She would open the menu every time and show me all including the prices and waiting my agreement.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 06:40:34 AM
At the end of the restaurant we had a surprise, an other woman grabbed her leather jacket and left switching it by mistake.
 She didn't get mad and made fun of the incident, i appreciated her mind and she scored some points here.   

 I could touch her anytime, she was not  reversing it in the same proportion  but she was very comfortable anyway.
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 09:25:37 AM
 Returning from the center on foot she drived me in direction of my flat .

 I promise you i didn't give her a hint.

We were so close of my flat that we were in front of the entrance. I always observe this attentively because it could be a sign. 

It was late, it was cold and we were beating the bush but obviously didn't really want to split.

I proposed to have a tea. She denied.

I understood that many things was proving that it was not possible to escalate further. Something, i don't know what,  was preventing her.

It could be anything, it could be that she has a low tempo before commitment, i get acquainted long time ago with a french woman who needed two months of courthip and many hours of dating before commiting.

I have no problems with this, as you have written BillyB they don't want to feel being sluts, whatever it is west or east. I would even say that in FSU they are more conservative in this way and a possible explanation is half lives with mum or an other relative and she will have to handle this. However in our case she has her own ДОМ
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 09:29:02 AM
 So we were finally inside the building to protect us for the wind and having great time together. Had some problems to find to her a taxi but not in real hurry to find one to be frank.

 So finally i told her : i will go with you. She looked at me : why do you want to go ? I don't want to let you go alone, i want to make the back and fort trip and to be with you, ask taxi to bring me back. 

 As you can guess i slept  quite late.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 09:30:40 AM
 I sllept quite late not only because i closed my door mid night but also because i couldn't sleep.

As you can guess i couldn't stop to think about her. 

 She has on spot everything i want for. 

 It's not only about her but also because since i started  my work to mourny my ex wife 3 years ago she is clearly the first i am really interested in. 

 I had few girlfriends, local and FSU, but she is the only who raises my attention. 

There is something that has reopened in my heart and i clearly need to explore it.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 09:33:42 AM
 And suddenly

Nelson and his fleet came across the majesty of the french fleet

and everything started to be a mess, 

A fierce battle in the little morning playing behind the foggy clouds was about to start ...
 :exploding: :exploding: :exploding:



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on November 11, 2019, 09:41:46 AM
Pat,

Has some Brit arrived on the scene...a 'competitor'?


We can be sure it is not Trench.....

Point out to her how hard it will be in Britain to get a visa and how 52 percent of 'us' want to control migration ...


Vivre la France..Perfidious Albion...and all that..
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 09:43:52 AM
Is the Bucentaure will survive to the battle?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 09:45:22 AM
Pat,

Has some Brit arrived on the scene...a 'competitor'?


We can be sure it is not Trench.....

Point out to her how hard it will be in Britain to get a visa and how 52 percent of 'us' want to control migration ...


Vivre la France..Perfidious Albion...and all that..
lol, you are not kind with him msmob, but you arrive (you) in an appropriate time
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 09:46:57 AM
 You remember the girl from Lviv that i promised to call again because she gave me her contact on whatsapp ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 09:50:57 AM
 It was sunday morning and i decided to give her a call.
The first thing that surprised me is that she was not speaking a good english, and she was supposed to be a temporary teacher in an english school.
 I thaught ok Patagonie, you have misleaded, she probably was in Lviv to LEARN english and not to teach it.

So all the conversation was happening in a fog and i was hardly struggling to get out of this shit.

It's why i switched to russian but my level is quite low and was running out of ammo after few minutes. This perfide Nelson has stolen the wind put a lot of smoke and i couldn't adjust my shot.

In my head i ever thaught ok let go this girl and that's it.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 09:54:05 AM
And suddenly this damned Nelson came close behind the smoke and fired all wood.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 09:56:37 AM
I was in my bed, fortunately, and thank God it helps when you are suddenly half dead, pierced through
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 09:59:29 AM
 Suddenly, of course i was not in my best shape, throught the fog, a detail came alive and beat my face so hard that i don't know how to keep my contenance on the phone.   

She told me thank you for your gift of yesterday that's was very tasty, especially this taste of gold in the sweet.   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 10:04:18 AM
 I realized that the girl i was struggling with was exactly the girl i had left few hours ago.   

Is Villeuneuve will be a prisoner? 

Will he survive?   

Will he find a way to escape? 

Or maybe, because of the fog and the smoke the HMS Victory didn't see him in fact?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 10:06:38 AM
 Later i retrieved the photo in miniature of the lvov girl and of the girl i was with during this night and both were matching each other, and you cannot make a difference except under high scrutiny.
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 10:09:49 AM
 At the end of conversation i proposed to meet but she answered that she was busy. She stayed evasive.

 A smell of something burnt came to my nose after we hanged up.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 10:11:16 AM
 But i am a warrior.
 I thaught is it so obvious that i made a mistake, or is it understable that we don't really speak a common language, that we were tired and this conversation, this morning was a mess. 
Fortunately i never mentionned a name, just location, something potentially totally weird i do agree.
 
Details can betray you. You can loose a prospect just because of a details. Don't expect to make zero fault because you cannot control everything.

And you probably don't know but we are in the pure tradition of the russian movie : the vaudeville. This is a classic in many TV series.
 
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 10:15:31 AM
 To get out of this shit i had to move on and quickly.

I thaught ok It is time to make something brilliant and something spectacular to SHOW her HOW much interest you have for her.

During the night as her battery was dead she noticed at least one phone number of an other local woman of her city that was in the surrouding. 

Maybe now she believes that i tried to call an other woman, why not. And what ? Is this the end of the world ? 
Through my fatigue i myself retrieved a red flag through what she was telling me a travel that she should done in Italy HA GASTI. When i asked KTO GASTI no answer.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 10:19:52 AM
 So i wrote her something like : it's very important i want to see you even 20 minutes. She answered but tried to escape, telling me that's she was there, i answered , doesn't matter i had to take a taxi an 20 minutes of road. 

She told me i have to be in the center city and will call you when i will be free to meet. I knew her and i knew that i can rely on her.
 
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 10:22:28 AM
 And the message came : we can meet in the center at 18:30
So i prepared myself to tell her in russian a very fast message. The true color of my heart. Basically what i wrote in this forum, plus i want to know you further.


But everybody here have already guessed what is in preparation in Italy.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 10:47:58 AM
 It comes here repeatdly on this forum, and again not too long ago.

There is the ugly lie, the blue pill 

and there is the real life, the red pill.



I started the game 12 years ago (remove 5 years because i was married)
Before, during, 10 years, i saw hundreds of singles and divorced people having affairs through an association i had been an active member.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 10:51:29 AM
 To make it short, everyone would believe that the woman, and especially the woman whith whom is living, is NOT this type a woman. 

Ok this is not an absolute rule, and i don't want to hurt anyone, and no one in this forum is targeted

Note also that the men who are posting the more are not belonging IMHO to the usual crownd, they have a better social position than average, a better wealth than average, a better emotional intelligence than average, and an easier dating life than average.

But girls are definitively, and i am on this forum for 10 years now, NOT dating men like doctors in a cabinet, waiting the last one closing the door before the next could enter.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 10:56:25 AM
And it doesn't mean that they bed different men at the same time.

Because bedding men at the same time is technicaly a THREESOME, FOURSOME or bang party. And i do agree that few girls are into such things.
But generally women date multiple men during the same time. Because this exactly part of how women work due to their extreme social and emotional nature, the network they have to etablish is very important.
Not all of women are bedding multiple men in a short duration, so where is the norm? Difficult to say. As usual norm is more a question of morale

However  However Let me remind you how bad faithed they are when it's time to assess the notion of time when they date several men. The time becomes very flexible, and so easy to arrange that at the end they only have one relationship in the row.

Of course that's BS.

Add to this, and i am repeating myself, that men count every bang an even more because of bragging while women forgot most of them because they have many reasons to don't want  feel like a slut.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 11:00:54 AM
Am i giving a morale judgement on those facts?

No, and especially out of marriage.

That how the world is working, that's the game.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 11:05:39 AM
 So she has a date in Italy.   

She physically can crush 90% of her competitors in Ukraine. And this one speaks almost no foreign language ... 

If you reread this this topic it should remind you the story l had lived on the field in 2011 with this woman who left me after a memorable meeting,  to see her sister for 3 weeks in Moscow. Of course that was a mountain of BS   

So the rules of the game are still valid, a woman is priorizing men accordingly with the time she has spent with. (this is exactly what was written in a specialized forum, far from the sugercoated millions of books and magazines that are crowding the universe). 

 She will generally keep up with the man with whom she has already invested the most of her time.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 11:11:14 AM
 Is it me who is writing this?
Is this exactly what gamers write about women ?
Many could argue and come here to say no to say yes to say maybe to say BUT


 
But guys,


 
This is exactly what SHE told me while she was standing in front of me in the coffee during our third meeting.
She explained me that she knows this man for three weeks (not sure if they met), they chat by video every day and he has already bought billets and hotel for her. All is scheduled and she will go for the plan.
Is this surprising, NO, i understand. This maybe not the laws of the morale (having a variable content depending of your family) but that is clearly how the real world works.

Am i disappointed, of course and she got it crystal clear.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 11:13:44 AM
 I told her that i will make no pressure on her and that i undersood the situation but women are around me and like me too, she agreed with this fact telling me that i am a good looking man and that's normal life.

So i communicated here that i have no insecurities, that i was not afraid of a possible competition and that  i will make my way anyway
 She told me also that she is in a complicated situation due to the fact that she is divorcing or is divorced for 4 months and her husband is now after her again. This is not afraid me as in a mourny it's happens quite often that a spouse try to restart the cold cheminey
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 11:16:16 AM
This is where members opinions' are sollicited. 

So the woman is one thing, but my cold head is one an other thing. She has a little company in the capital. I start to wonder if this divorce (don't know his real status yet) will crush her business or not.
Why i ask the question, it's because it could of course interfere on her dating. So you understand where i want to go. 
 
This is why your opinions will be appreciated.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 11:17:29 AM
 I am a warrior and i have decided to kick may ass this time.

 I mean that generaly in this type of event i have a natural trend to reitre myself and get out of the business. But this time i have decided to do it differently
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 11:18:47 AM
 I had decided to do it like Poutine : hold the ground as much as possible.

  :ROFL:
So i dropped on her a lot of positive emotions during our last meeting and send her continuous messages. 
 And the fact is : her interest is high. Don't want to display all details here but that's it.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 11:20:25 AM
 I had been in a comparable situation 10 years ago, same first name, same blonde, same color of eyes.

 I was a newbie i did some mistake, she was having several men on her list and went to France Nice for a guy who fucked her and ditched her just after. Must say also that she had never been really serious about me and she excused herself several years later for this.

We kept in touch and four years after when i friendly send her photo of my marriage she told kindly told me that she was jealous of my wife and, go figure in less than one year she left the country for a nordic country where she rapidly born a lovely baby, she was 35 or 36 and she was a 8.7 at this time

We have also spoken about the same situation that happened to me in 2011.
 And what next ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 11:22:10 AM
  I still remember the advices of members here, Patagonie continue to date.

They were right. I unfortunately sticked to my rules. Don't want to explain why again, reread the topic please.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on November 11, 2019, 11:22:41 AM
Yeah, the best thing for an ongoing relationship is to let her know how important she is to you .... again and again.

I am confused, though.   Is this the same woman who is going to Italy?   Or is that a different one.   And who is the woman in the middle of a divorce?  (I never would touch a situation like that.  Especially when the man is still in the picture.  What do you want?  An iron meatball in your stomach?)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 11:24:04 AM
  So finally what i am going to do ? There is a very important thing that i shall remind you : i am not in the mind of marrying, and it changes a lot of things.
 And that's clearly written in my profile which is also mentionning that i am ready to partially relocate, That pushes away every the « i wish to move away from there ».

And that works because i know one woman who clearly delete me of her matches while i was trying to get an appointment.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 11:26:10 AM
Yeah, the best thing for an ongoing relationship is to let her know how important she is to you .... again and again.

I am confused, though.   Is this the same woman who is going to Italy?   Or is that a different one.   And who is the woman in the middle of a divorce?  (I never would touch a situation like that.  Especially when the man is still in the picture.  What do you want?  An iron meatball in your stomach?)
Hi Jone.
Yes this is the same woman who is in the middle of a divorce or just after a divorce and who goes in Italy in three days and dates me at the same time.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on November 11, 2019, 11:28:46 AM
My friend,

While France is not a long flight from Ukraine, it still presents problems that this woman has local attention that she is considering.   For her to even bring it up means that it is swirling in her head.   You need someone able to commit.   Absent that, you will wind up in an impossible situation.

In the time it took me to write this, another beautiful woman just walked by.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on November 11, 2019, 02:18:57 PM
Pat - your story is interesting, and I know English is not your first language, but the narrative is very hard to follow.

It would be much easier to 1) use a "nom de plume"/pseudonym for a woman's name and provide some details like age, hair color, etc. and to 2) provide names of cities. If you don't wish to disclose the cities just pick different cities in Ukraine.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 02:26:42 PM
Pat - your story is interesting, and I know English is not your first language, but the narrative is very hard to follow.

It would be much easier to 1) use a "nom de plume"/pseudonym for a woman's name and provide some details like age, hair color, etc. and to 2) provide names of cities. If you don't wish to disclose the cities just pick different cities in Ukraine.
I am sorry. I try to put a lot of effort to make the story attractive, but i understand that it's quite difficult after a while to follow all the girls through the story as i don't follow a stricly linear path.

I decided to use girlX cityXSo i was in city1 and met two girls.
Now i am in city2 and met none for the moment as i am exhausted.
People on the board who knows me and Ukraine can easily understand where i am however.
I will follow your advice to put some random names for the girls, it would help i think.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 03:22:27 PM
My friend,

While France is not a long flight from Ukraine, it still presents problems that this woman has local attention that she is considering.   For her to even bring it up means that it is swirling in her head.   You need someone able to commit.   Absent that, you will wind up in an impossible situation.

In the time it took me to write this, another beautiful woman just walked by.
Dear friend.

I am flexible and tried to ever rebound in every situation. It doesn't come without any pain, or great pain like my divorce, but i have managed to get through. Some people who knows me well say that i have succeed in my marriage and in my divorce.

Emotions are the bounding between me and the invible feminine touch, this shoreline so weak that gathers us in the universe.

I had died hundreds of time and survive crowling to the finish line.

When you are approaching this emotional sunset and both find each other in this little пассаж the cyclotron starts to be turned on.
Capturing a hearth is not worth doing but listening the beat is.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 03:22:55 PM
so ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 03:23:50 PM
With women the plan is,
first to have a plan,
two to have a watch.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 03:26:17 PM
Plan :
Tomorrow  disappear from any communication network as she will be about to fly to Italy.In J+7 if no news from her, format the hard drive and enjoy life.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2019, 03:30:10 PM
In case she came alive udachi,
be flexible as accordingly to the plan.

The plan is to become flexible. lol


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 12, 2019, 06:34:28 AM
The most important fellows,

Is to have fun.

You only have one life to burn.

Have fun and i can guarantee you that a lot of women crave to get some fun, therefore what you are sharing by your only presence is priceless
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 12, 2019, 06:43:59 AM
THe last 24 hours i have contacted some girls here in Vinnitsa (random name), inviting them for a coffee.
For this moment it comes flat.

Don't know if finally the strategy of matching in advance is bitting me back or not, especially on Tinder.
Badoo in those secondary cities seems more useful, but we have many low looking girls also.
I think that such dating sites are moving fast.
If you put some coins in Badoo (not too much because this site sucks you a lot very quickly) you could send a message to the girls who cost some points and it allows you to open the door.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 12, 2019, 10:24:45 AM
I have a strong communication with my favorite lady form the previous city i left 48 hours before.
Calls, numerous messages sometimes many in one hour. SHe don't stop to send me IOI (indicators of interest).
She shows me that she spoke about me to her son, friends, tried to get some informations useful for me if i relocate in the future...
As promised i hold my ground and perform well.
Tomorrow il will have to shut off all communications and say, do your stupid italian excursion and we will see after.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 12, 2019, 11:02:21 AM
Humor is absolutely essential if you want to speed up the escalation of the dating ladder inFSU.
This is one of the most topic to come along.
Generally you should avoid humour from the ZERO minute or you will screw up the dating and even loss the lady.

It beats me back several times and i lost them. I am serious.

But everybody who knows those women a little bit know that they like humor and practice it.

There is threshold to reach, and when you are there all start to be more simpler, the door is barely opened and you can do a lot.

A large part of the fence proceeds  from the gordian knot of the language. It could beat twice,If you don't have ANY common language you can rely only about facial expressions and send some links of funny things go give a try. Of course, naturally you will use extensively translators on your phones, but it doesn't really help about humor. So in the vast majority of the time you have to keep simples and non referenced to you culture or it will not pass through.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 12, 2019, 11:02:50 AM

The debilnii style could also helps. I remember the second date i had in 2009 we ate some tea and dessert and  we were full because the pastry in Ukraine is generally hard to swallow.
While we were leaving the coffe i was imitating a bear of 350 kg going down the stairs citing the name of the dessert several times. You cannot miss your shot with such one. 
An other time with the same lady i walked fast in the street to come along a few group taking a photo, i joined them with the debil style like part of the group. You scores immediatly some points.
You will rapidly get some traction if you at least have a minimum of russian. Because inevitably, whatever your level is, you will say funny things or prounonce it funny. If it's not funny it's cute.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 12, 2019, 11:12:25 AM
I remember also in Kharkov in 2011 i was with a lady and a female terp in a karaoke and the lady i was dating sang a very passioned and sexual song for me while i was dancing with her (i have the video normally if ex wife didn't delete all lol), that was insane when i think.
My russian was almost nothing but mixing two words of russian and german i could express something that french have a big advantage in dating because they have no jet lag.
And so i finished to shout in front of them : amerikanski a potom samaliot KAPUTT, KAPUTT amerikanski
You could imagine how it make them both laugh, they couldn't stop of laughing a long time, almost falling from their seats.
And from time to time during the evening i could shout AMERIKANSKI KAPUTT, the laugh will restart.

Oh my gush when i think about this evening i have plenty tears of joy in the eyes.

So this is an absolutely example when you express something funny and highly sexual. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 12, 2019, 11:17:47 AM
So why humor is important, first of all many FSU women couldn't consider a serious relationship, maybe except goldiggers and scammers without a man with humor, that's in their priorities.

Humor will help you to climb the ladder of seduction and delivers some sexual messages you cannot say bruto. Don't overdue this and wait to have some clearance in the relationship. Don't do this in the beginning. You need her to be comfortable FIRST.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 12, 2019, 11:26:57 AM
THis morning i was with a woman i know well, a very solid 8 in her mid 40 and she was explaining that during the middle age english had a lot of children but french people had more children than english families.
I asked her : you know why?
She told me no. 
Because sex, french have more sex, simply. She became silent and start to laugh. She is laughing mainly with her eyes.
Few minutes after i was talking about a friend and they have 8 children.
She couldn't figure out how it is possible.

I told you Svetlana, because we have more sex, the main problem is that you never believe me. 

Of course she couldn't stop laughing and was constantly ripping on her seat because in fact she is a very very conservative woman. 

So you see, nevertheless with a very very conservative woman, and because we have such level of comfort you can make such level of joke,
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Faux Pas on November 12, 2019, 12:00:36 PM
Humor is absolutely essential if you want to speed up the escalation of the dating ladder inFSU.
This is one of the most topic to come along.
Generally you should avoid humour from the ZERO minute or you will screw up the dating and even loss the lady.

It beats me back several times and i lost them. I am serious.

But everybody who knows those women a little bit know that they like humor and practice it.

There is threshold to reach, and when you are there all start to be more simpler, the door is barely opened and you can do a lot.

A large part of the fence proceeds  from the gordian knot of the language. It could beat twice,If you don't have ANY common language you can rely only about facial expressions and send some links of funny things go give a try. Of course, naturally you will use extensively translators on your phones, but it doesn't really help about humor. So in the vast majority of the time you have to keep simples and non referenced to you culture or it will not pass through.

It's been a while for me. I haven't dated in 12 years but prior to that I dated much and often in the West. I disagree with you somewhat on the humor. It's good even early on. It needs to be relatively clean and not the locker room sort but I found if I could make a woman laugh at anytime during the first encounter I usually left it with the upper hand and a phone number. Most women love to laugh and they love a man who makes them laugh. Sharing a laugh is a form of opening up and a connection. I would always strive to make them laugh or at the least leave them with a smile on their face
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 12, 2019, 01:12:50 PM
It's been a while for me. I haven't dated in 12 years but prior to that I dated much and often in the West. I disagree with you somewhat on the humor. It's good even early on. It needs to be relatively clean and not the locker room sort but I found if I could make a woman laugh at anytime during the first encounter I usually left it with the upper hand and a phone number. Most women love to laugh and they love a man who makes them laugh. Sharing a laugh is a form of opening up and a connection. I would always strive to make them laugh or at the least leave them with a smile on their face
Yes i do agree that's a very good starter. If you can start from scratch that's the best.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 12, 2019, 01:50:06 PM
So finally i decided to recontact the lady i had dated in July here, in Vinnitsa. Jane.
She instantly answered and is free only saturday due to her son that she cannot let alone. I know.
Not so bad but i have a lady with whom i am in contact from one month on Badoo who already lives in the surrounding, Erika, i have previously told you about her and she can only come the saturday or sunday.
Don't know how to manage this mess.
I wait tomorrow and will decide.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 12, 2019, 02:57:28 PM
So finally i decided to recontact the lady i had dated in July here, in Vinnitsa. Jane.
She instantly answered and is free only saturday due to her son that she cannot let alone. I know.
Not so bad but i have a lady with whom i am in contact from one month on Badoo who already lives in the surrounding, Erika, i have previously told you about her and she can only come the saturday or sunday.
Don't know how to manage this mess.
I wait tomorrow and will decide.

Pat, I am surprised you weren't better prepared for this trip regarding the logistics, and have your women all lined up and slotted into time and place.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 12, 2019, 03:10:13 PM
Pat, I am surprised you weren't better prepared for this trip regarding the logistics, and have your women all lined up and slotted into time and place.

Hi dear ML
That is not working like this now. I mean if you follow the long path of a VO with a backup you can write it in the marble very likely yes.
But if you especially avoid too much communication to give you maximum of meetingS all you should do is to stay flexible because all can be changed very quickly.All of women largely prefer you in the city now and they have different motivation to not exactly give you a very fixed schedule.
Culturally ukrainian women are not really long term scheduled and some would change the meeting of two hours, let you wait or postpone the date just to squeze the shit of you.

Here in Vinnitsa as i got this shitty information (i could date you only saturday or sunday) from Erika, i had to reset some appointments. Personnaly I never send 10 or 20 propositions in one shot to be overcrowned and lost all my bullets. Add to this you always prefer some women you put in your top list. You would like to see her first.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 12, 2019, 03:20:07 PM
Pat, I was able to schedule 12 or more women into specific time slots about 2-3 weeks in advance.

Less than 1% were 'no shows' and less than 5% were more than 5 minutes late for the meeting.

However, this was back when we did everything via email.

Today, with the increased (perhaps exclusive) use of mobile phones and the newer dating apps, it is possible that the game has changed substantially.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 12, 2019, 03:32:57 PM
Pat, I was able to schedule 12 or more women into specific time slots about 2-3 weeks in advance.

Less than 1% were 'no shows' and less than 5% were more than 5 minutes late for the meeting.

However, this was back when we did everything via email.

Today, with the increased (perhaps exclusive) use of mobile phones and the newer dating apps, it is possible that the game has changed substantially.
Yes i think that the main reason, many women have shifted to online dating appicatons, it is so convenient for them
i still get a glance to Fdating, but i didn't even play this one. However i think it's not a bad site.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 06:59:23 AM
So yesterday we had a mini crisis with the lady that is supposed to go to Italy.
It squeezes out the shit of both of us.
I will not go in every details because it's quite private.   
But what i got through this is that she damned want to keep me and not let me go. My Poutine strategy is good, we have probably exchanged more than 200 messages in less than 72 hours and calls and many photos.
I probably have to change my strategy, i probably have to keep communication ongoing during the time she will be in Italy.

To be frank i have not put a lot of emotional tension on this woman, even if i like her very much.
I protect me and continue to maintain my social female network.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 07:09:42 AM
I was thinking about a probable strategy on Badoo you can test.
It could be a virtual Krimster version of you to hook locally while being the local attraction.

Let me explain:
ON badoo you setup a very nice profile with very attractive photos (not your Porsche, not you muscles and this usual shit) something not ordinary that shows your personaly doing (sculpture, painting, and na na or everything who can catch the eyes of a woman. If you are preparing motor for dragster i doubt that she will give a hint.)

You get an appartment in the city in the HYPER CENTER. The epicenter of the city where dozens of thoushands people pass by every day. And you buy at least 5000 points on Badoo (i think it's about 40$)
You plug your GPS on and wait.
You monitor your smartphone on located badoo page and every girls who comes around will be indicated. 
Your message in russian is ready and you just press the send button, like i am just beside, do you want to have a coffee with me. The coffee is of course 30 meters from your flat. You do this of course for every girl you like.   
Even if they don't answer let them to come again in the area and propose again.
In the biggest cities i consider that it's impossible that you couldn't get some hits at least at the end of the week. 
 I would advise you however to not open your Badoo in this city PRIOR your trip.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 07:34:06 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=togt3pGntVc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=togt3pGntVc)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 07:51:57 AM
I have never retrieved the crystal and the joy of your desire, you are out of balance 
 
I am looking into the limousine, you squeeze out the way you are   

the day comes along your nudity. I wish the violin to wake you in the morning, feeling your lips tasting mine through the waterfall   

J'irai tous les jours sous la tente de toile légère deviner les contours de ta sexualité et si tu existes toujours je trouverai le temps d'ouvrir la barrière de bois clair qui te protège des prédateurs

YOu will never coming back, you will fly and never turn back. All is sweet and you lay on the floor why the drone falls through the door 
 
You say good bye and finally you come around my hand. You trap me in the Viper and 600 HP couldn't deliver the ranger i have always been. 

We know what we deserve, the moonlight into the champaign, the Hugues 500D falling from the yatch, your bikini lost on the floor

Don't you hear babe the birds crying outside et de ritournelles en sorcières je passe au dessus de mes épaules l'armure de guerre, l'épée à deux mains pour les meurtriers sièges

You don't know how to lay on the red leather, where so many pinups prayed their men, you can only got your nails been fixed, il n'y a pas de place pour le jeu sensoriel je te laisserai nue au milieu de l'avenue and i will crush on you this arrow

you will never see it coming back from the wave, the flow is so powerful that you will not survive et d'aqueuses solutions en révolutions je viendrai te chercher au milieu de l'océan mes bras d'homme poisson à la recherche de tes formes les plus généreuses. 

I would be all around your hair and you will so desesperated that you will jump off the cliff where the vultures never want to go et je te survivrai, inpromptu et sauvage, boudant dans le pré adjacent 

Tu me dis je et je te dis que je n'ai plus de patience, i just want to kiss you, if not now, i would never.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 08:19:24 AM
SO now i try to manage this week end to see two ladies plus an additional local buddy all in two days.
Erika want to see me saturday.
And Jane also. I try to switch her to sunday, but not sure that will work.

Buddy has the highest priority.



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 08:23:18 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9knYNjp95bs&list=PLy_wKxVmWb4b0v5DyXmkGprScrO0m5g_B (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9knYNjp95bs&list=PLy_wKxVmWb4b0v5DyXmkGprScrO0m5g_B)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 08:30:20 AM
I saw them in concert, the english version of this song is shit, keep on the original one :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fv19KVVya8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fv19KVVya8)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 13, 2019, 08:39:40 AM
SO now i try to manage this week end to see two ladies plus an additional local buddy all in two days.
Erika want to see me saturday.
And Jane also. I try to switch her to sunday, but not sure that will work.

Buddy has the highest priority.

Is Buddy a better screw than Erika and Jane ??
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 08:57:24 AM
Is Buddy a better screw than Erika and Jane ??
:ROFL:
Friendship is always better than a chick you have never seen.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 08:58:44 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAcmDkLRrtA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAcmDkLRrtA)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 09:03:57 AM
My landlord came to get the rental payment.
I know her for three years and ask her a flat in Vinnitsa each time i come.
I try to date her since i am divorced.
And she tries to avoid every "private meeting", very funny.
So tonight i definitively saw the bery big ring with stones she wears, she is married. So i will not insist too much.But there is moment when she has to retrieve the money lol even if she trusts me very much. Lol so last three days it was a collection of misses yes/no appointment.

But she is also a very solid 8 in her early 40 with absolutely amazing and incredible eyes grey/blue. 
She also probably believe that i am still married which is quite disgusting for her. But i am not anymore. I could even suppose she could have called  my ex wife, absolutely possible.
Lol
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 13, 2019, 09:33:24 AM
But she is also a very solid 8 in her early 40 with absolutely amazing and incredible eyes grey/blue. 

A couple of weeks ago I was in the garden area of local WalMart.
There were some extremely low prices on some items they were wanting to get rid of for the winter.
For instance, bags of organic fertilizer for flowers for $1 having regular price of $9-10.
I grabbed up 10 bags of various mixtures and some other items.

A young and very attractive woman around 30 was in the aisle with me and I mentioned to her the great buys on these items.
Usually women of this age and attractiveness just give a polite smile, give something like a 'hmmmm' and that's the end.

But this gal became very talkative and animated.
Seemed like she was sort of lonely for some human interaction, even as I saw her wedding ring.
We chit chatted for an extended period of time, and I was starting to feel a little bit uncomfortable because I didn't want to just walk off.

Then I noticed that she had the most beautiful grey/blue eyes.
I couldn't help myself from mentioning this to her.

She broke out in this really big smile, touched me on my arm, and said 'thank you very much.'

Surprised me quite a bit, because I presume she hears this a lot from many people.
I continued to feel somewhat sad for her, because she seemed somewhat starved for someone to talk with.  Perhaps she had something very terrible happen in her life recently or even that day.

Anyway, I said that I needed to get going.

She said:  I hope you have a wonderful day.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 09:45:10 AM
A couple of weeks ago I was in the garden area of local WalMart.
There were some extremely low prices on some items they were wanting to get rid of for the winter.
For instance, bags of organic fertilizer for flowers for $1 having regular price of $9-10.
I grabbed up 10 bags of various mixtures and some other items.

A young and very attractive woman around 30 was in the aisle with me and I mentioned to her the great buys on these items.
Usually women of this age and attractiveness just give a polite smile, give something like a 'hmmmm' and that's the end.

But this gal became very talkative and animated.
Seemed like she was sort of lonely for some human interaction, even as I saw her wedding ring.
We chit chatted for an extended period of time, and I was starting to feel a little bit uncomfortable because I didn't want to just walk off.

Then I noticed that she had the most beautiful grey/blue eyes.
I couldn't help myself from mentioning this to her.

She broke out in this really big smile, touched me on my arm, and said 'thank you very much.'

Surprised me quite a bit, because I presume she hears this a lot from many people.
I continued to feel somewhat sad for her, because she seemed somewhat starved for someone to talk with.  Perhaps she had something very terrible happen in her life recently or even that day.

Anyway, I said that I needed to get going.

She said:  I hope you have a wonderful day.
You know some very beautiful women no one dare to speak to her ... normally. Just a normal conversation like two neighbours speaking about the cat lost in the garden...Yes she probably hear this type of compliment quite a lot, but you came at an handy point.
You felt her very emotional, you could'nt be wrong.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 09:46:25 AM
landlord
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 10:17:07 AM
So don't worry about girls in the box,FInally girl of saturday proposes to move to sunday,Girl of saturday must be confirmed for saturday. 
 
I meet my friend for friday, an as we go to the biggest club  there a place free for a third girl, i have two days left to find the third girl.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 10:28:19 AM
Why the plan is to be flexible?

because those women don't stop to change their plans.
So the girl of saturday is maybe not available, a female friend is coming to her city.
So i invited both to come to the club friday  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 10:32:17 AM
And to tell you how the life is crazy, You remember that my ex french/ukrainian mistress absolutely wanted to book me the week i wanted to leave to Ukraine? And this crazy week three days ago in Kiev?

And now my ex wife is IN my city.

Yes her mother had been operated urgently.
Finally part of the money i gave for the compensatory alimony saved a life ...  :popcorn:



I love Ukraine
I love my life  :P   
NB : The plan is not to meet my ex wife.
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 10:40:30 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kv7hobhCoU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kv7hobhCoU)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 10:46:49 AM
3D panoramic for dentition 13€ 
IRM 60€ 
Heart operation 5000€
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 11:04:50 AM
So i think about a lot of guys who come here.
95% are not registered and we don't even know who you are.

The life i propose you if you are 25, 35, 40 is probably one of the most brilliant ifyou love very much women, love, beauty, emotions and raise a family.

If you are in IT and in any remotely business the plan is to prepare you move to FSU, to get a long stay visa (aim directly 3 years in Ukraine, needed to be renewed). Before get some courses of russian/ukrainian as much as possible.
Put a double condom on your dick the first three years so you have time to really understand what happens in such country. And after if you decide that the way to go, if you want to setup a family it will be time to find the mother of your dreams.

 Or to have a long and interesting dating life or anything like a relationship with a woman you love.
The best is, with your remote business, to not bring your family in the west to avoid the hassle of the immigration/cultural move for your wife and also to protect yourself from the mafia civilian court that is working in the western countries now. There are many things that are worthy, like avoiding false accusations and so on in case you disagree with your GF or wife and many other things...
Of course being outside european community and USA has some advantage you have to dig in.

You will have the possibility to your family to leave in a double culture and if one day you are sure that's worth it to come back in your native country one day.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 13, 2019, 11:34:35 AM
I've not known one expat who has lived in Ukraine long term, who has not been beaten, robbed, burgled, or swindled.  The only ones I know of who have not had that occur were married to locals, but even some of them suffered these fates.  Many of those learned from those lessons and continued on, but it's a very common occurrence.


Just pointing to one of risks.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 01:03:40 PM
Bo
The paradise where no offences are commited doesn't exist

homicide rate per 100000 inhabitants source wikipedia
10.8 Russia
6.3 Ukraine
 5.4 USA
 1.7 France
For example in France rare are the people who didn't need to go one day or an other in a police station.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 13, 2019, 01:12:04 PM
Yes, but as a foreigner, you will be targeted.  That's not the case for a French national living in France.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 01:58:43 PM
Yes, but as a foreigner, you will be targeted.  That's not the case for a French national living in France.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Yes a little more, like in every country who has more poverty than the others.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 02:00:06 PM
I've not known one expat who has lived in Ukraine long term, who has not been beaten, robbed, burgled, or swindled.  The only ones I know of who have not had that occur were married to locals, but even some of them suffered these fates.  Many of those learned from those lessons and continued on, but it's a very common occurrence.


Just pointing to one of risks.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
But i think that here we face an over generalization however
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on November 13, 2019, 02:04:19 PM
Bo
The paradise where no offences are commited doesn't exist

homicide rate per 100000 inhabitants source wikipedia
10.8 Russia
6.3 Ukraine
 5.4 USA
 1.7 France
For example in France rare are the people who didn't need to go one day or an other in a police station.

I don't think a lot of bad stuff in the FSU get reported. Much of the bad stuff are caused by the cops anyway. I've never lived there but when I did visit, trouble found me. A few people who lived there and post here had stuff happen to them. Docete's wife been a victim of sexual harassment. Andrew had someone bash him on the back of the head and knocked him out. He woke up hours later in a in a pool of blood and snow minus a wallet. I can't remember a name but a guy came here and said while walking down the street, he flipped off an aggressive driver. The car stopped and they shot him with a rubber bullet. I'm sure there are more stories but this is what comes to mind right now.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 02:17:37 PM
Yes life in Ukraine is not necessary the most comfortable and you need to be flexible and have good humour,
So for example since yesterday morning we don't have water anymore, it was supposed to be retablished this morning but, that's Ukraine  :cheesy:
The heater is still off, in all the whole city : it's too hot still 8 degres.  :cheesy:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 02:32:53 PM
My life is superb,
I am listening music with professional headphones, so i have a studio qualitY, depending of the quality of the music of course. I have my own flac pack but i also explore a lot. 

I mainly correspond with the woman i like more and more hours after hours, i really think that she is out of the crownd for many reasons. 

And i manage also during this time the others incoming meetings while i send time to time a meeting proposition to any women i like, mainly on Badoo. 

THere is a slow stream of new girls now. 

The problem is i am very very picky, so i don't bombard the site of messages.i run time to time and manage some dental health with my favorite dentist here.
i often land in coffees and try to avoid restaurants too much to keep my weight low.
Logistical problems have been sold prior ma venue. 

I have no time sleep or to wake up, i can cut my sleep by two, don't eat for hours, all stay flexible, the only priorities are dentist and romance, the rest has no importance or secondary importance.
i access to an upper emotional state who allows me, to how to stay, to be clearly better connected with women.   

I try new things too push higher the connection, but sometimes, like last summer, you do almost nothing special and the lady is doing the work by herself and find any reasons to idealize you, probably because i have a strong frame, a mix between masculinity vs feminity toughness vs sensibility caring vs unleashed
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 13, 2019, 02:39:05 PM
I've not known one expat who has lived in Ukraine long term, who has not been beaten, robbed, burgled, or swindled.  The only ones I know of who have not had that occur were married to locals, but even some of them suffered these fates.  Many of those learned from those lessons and continued on, but it's a very common occurrence.


Just pointing to one of risks.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

I think it's important to be aware of the dangers you point out Boe and prepare accordingly.  I would only go to live in Ukraine etc if/when I get an independent income stream going in the UK. Hopefully that should be mid way through 2020 onwards. That will keep the main bulk of my money outside Ukraine only to draw upon it as and when. Any form of wealth should be minimised as far as possible in Ukraine I have come to learn.

I carry cheap Motorola Mobile's around with me now when out there as travel phones and leave my main mobile at home. I would do the same if out there long term. I also use two wallets, one that holds my passport that goes into a safe once in Ukraine accommodation and another with which I carry a bank card and a low amount of cash in it.

Learning Russian/Ukrainian, not standing out too much, awareness, keeping oneself moving, gym fitness and a martial art or some idea of how to defend oneself successfully is also good stuff to do.

From my past travels the thing I most learnt that being able to be as Independant as possible is the most valuable thing out there to avoid ill events happening.

Of course there are other factors. Living in the city centre of most cities is likely to lessen risk as they tend to be more civilized particularly if they are a bit touristy.

If one really wants to reduce the risk of criminal acts then Minsk could be a good option, the state apparatus surpresses a lot of criminal activity out there. One of the big advantages to Minsk and it's still somewhat Communist government, a nice secure environment :)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 02:45:57 PM
I had personnaly never had a trouble. I came here more than 20 times (lost the exact countdown now), walk and run a lot, including by night. My ex french buddy in Kharkov, who lives here permanently never reported me a problem and he travels regulary in the country.

I don't say it's absolutely safe. I don't get drunk, i don't let my stuff in the flat, i block the door if i am in an hotel i am not sure, i will be suspicious if a man enter in the building with me. I never pay with a credit card, i don't show and don't bragg about my money.

I have also an height and a mafia look that probably are not encouraging a lot of people.

I don't go in strip bar or in bordel, i avoid suspicious coffee or dancing.

I will bail out if i don't feel people.

In the train, lux coupé, i always say hello to the passenger with me, always check the door to be blocked and protect my stuff even when i sleep.

I had been used to live abroad, maybe it helps.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 13, 2019, 03:24:54 PM
Sounds to me like you are good on that stuff Pat.

I tend to get the impression those that get done over tend to stand out or/and look weak targets. Guys that are obviously overweight or look puny. Looking too puny may even be worse hence why some FSW may not like guys that looks too puny, ie skinny with no obvious muscle.

Other guys may make displays off their wealth all too openly without realising it or may speak too loudly in their native tongue, others may look unsure of themselves.

In general though I think you're right Pat, those of us that keep our head down and keep to our business don't have any problems. I get amount some elements of Ukraine there is a prey mentality and so it makes sense to be guarded and not leave yourself open. I think for those that get to know the scene and act right, Ukraine is as safe as anywhere and a paradise to be for dating the women :)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 03:30:59 PM
So now we have an other interesting thing that happens, or could happen. Nothing is proven for the moment. It should go on further verification.

Summary :  to help you and avoid to reread all the topic.
Two years ago approximatively i recruited a terp to help me to tell me to the father of the teenager who had lived with me that's her mother has messed up our marriage and i was filling a divorce.
As i have always respected this man i had considered of the highest importance to inform him as clearly as possible, so i recruit a terp, to avoid any misunderstanding. So he can take the best decision in the interest of this young girl, as i am not the father.

During our following exchanges i learnt ex wifey had on her side did some marketing to let believe that i had become mad. And she extracted some money of the father of this young girl by pretending she was starving. I had a complete file with hundreds of proofs with me. But i think that he knew my ex wife enough to not ask them to be seen.

So to make it short the terp was a solid 8 blond. I asked also to provide me some russian lessons. There was also a solid attraction. We hold hand in a coffee, nothing more because i was not ready. I never betrayed my ex wife. I dated my first GF five months after she left home.

Finally i saw her again (the terp), the attraction was still there. And she repeatidily talked me about marriage, three times. I explained her that was out of question, at this moment i was alone, even divorced, but still waiting the documents. And absolutely not in the mood to remarry.


This year in february i noticed her on Fdating. I did anything, that's her life. But before this she contacted me, i have the proof on Viber, i answered but nothing came along.

And when i met her this summer she finally dropped me that she was going to marry to a guy of Canada.

Strangely when i first met her two years ago, hiring her as a terp and also russian teacher, she had just came back from ... Canada.

éh éh éh, to be continued
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 03:36:10 PM
Sounds to me like you are good on that stuff Pat.

I tend to get the impression those that get done over tend to stand out or/and look weak targets. Guys that are obviously overweight or look puny. Looking too puny may even be worse hence why some FSW may not like guys that looks too puny, ie skinny with no obvious muscle.

Other guys may make displays off their wealth all too openly without realising it or may speak too loudly in their native tongue, others may look unsure of themselves.

In general though I think you're right Pat, those of us that keep our head down and keep to our business don't have any problems. I get amount some elements of Ukraine there is a prey mentality and so it makes sense to be guarded and not leave yourself open. I think for those that get to know the scene and act right, Ukraine is as safe as anywhere and a paradise to be for dating the women :)
I globally think the same, however chance can came along... you can be at the bad moment with the bad people and boum
I have already missed to die 3 or 4 times, very close (i don't speak about being assaulted)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 03:42:24 PM
The water is back, viva Ukraine  :welcome:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 04:08:13 PM
So let me explain my version :

She put some pression on me but she put also a lot of pression on this other man. It came flat both sides.
So she has to restart things from scratch (fdating episode). Ffinally don't know why but canadian guy decided to give his vote, something like this.
So she told me about this ongoing marriage this very few months ago. This was a very emotional diner, even if his lovely daughter was there we could felt the sparks in our eyes back and forth. I was happy for her. 
I think she largely had prefered me and always consider me as a good father for her daughter.
 
She also grateful towards me because i helped to take the decision that has changed her life the most.
I helped her to  drop her job of teacher (i think it's 120$ per month) and setup her own business, an english school. And she has no regret.

Tw o days ago we spendone hour and half together. We are rarely alone, but we were alone this time. She is very conservative but she was dressed and had some make up above her usual daily life. She likes me guys, nothing has changed, that's simple, why to write a roman. 

I had been always curious how pushing a man like she did could work, i was, i am curious about the afterward of this story, i know how it's difficult to go through such whole immigration story. 

I have to tell you that she hates Ukraine more and more and the plan, you have guessed, is to leave Ukraine, you understand why i never wanted to become the Ukraine International Airlines PLUS k1 shelter
 
So we have daily messages since i saw her two days ago, and tonight she is upset and tired because she works like crazy, no water and she is writing me this : i am not moving to Canada. 

Surprisingly she made no, none, allusion to Canada, the husband, and anything this last month even under my questions or hints

She also last meeting sent me several hints about all the possible girlfriends i could have. A way to know if i am landed  :P   
 
So, we will squeeze the shit out of the box i think next meeting.

 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2019, 04:37:03 PM
She told me one time, i remember "i know my price". 

No,  her price depends exclusively of external parameters that are totaly out of her control and so she couldn't know her price because it can vary between 0 and 1, staying in Ukraine or getting the card.
The way is very very very long before getting a card.
The way is closer to stay in Ukraine because she has already two feet on this ground every minute. 

She has also two daughters, from two men. One is grown and the other is still quite young,  i like her very much. All i can say is that they deserve a better life. She works like crazy and maybe she starts to make some money. I say this because she was so proud to drive me in her car last time, because she has bought a little car recently and it gives her some joy. It's a big sum for her, and i don't know from how this money came. Not sure that her business has provided all. 

SO as you see what is interesting is to share time to people, understand the details and guess the dynamics behind, with empathy but without shooting a bullet in your feet furthermore.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 14, 2019, 02:01:33 AM
Why i met her two years ago?
Because with her salary as a teacher, she couldn't survive. Therefore she was a terp during her time free and additionnaly gave me few russian lessons.
 
She wanted to keep up with the teacher job because after a certain time she could get a pension, increased after a certain period of time. I told her : so you are tying your hand all your life to get 60$ in 20 years, considering that this sum will be nothing with the inflation and anyway how do want to survive with such shit?In conclusion she left school one year ago and start her business. 
 
 I think that she works between 60 and 70 hours per week. An old man from Canada (not the "husband") was part of the business in the very beginning but i guess that he wanted more than setup an english school with her.
 
She is a hard worker, pro ukrainian, she is smart, respects the law (doesn't mean that she necessary declare all her money to the taxes, i won't if i was her), raised her daughters, probably mainly the youngest as the father don't take care about this girl unfortunately. And she is honest.Yes you can not like what i wrote about her but she still has certain qualities. So now how a woman like this can have a dating life?  :cluebat:
 
I don't even know how she managed to start something with this man. Ok don't be a fool, write this on your fridge : when a woman wants she always find a way to give time to a man whatever is the situation.
BUT
Really that a shitty life. Now her life seems better because she seems to have cranked an other level but what you have to understand, is when you date such woman, and from the first hours, you have to help her financially. 

Let me take an other example.
I made some friendship with a taxi guy 10 years ago. He never told me but he had a big credit because he stupidly bought a big SUV (that bring him to bankrupcy). So when he was spending two hours with me, does he have to share the bill? NO, i have to pay all the bill because during those two hours a lot of money didn't get into his pocket.

So for those women who have a private business, the fact that they are not into the business has bad financial consequences. Respect them, not only by paying any restaurant, coffee, taxi bills but also you should help them when you start to date them repeatedly

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 14, 2019, 02:07:35 AM
For many people, in Ukraine, the field of actions is very narrow. For many it's zero. they have few or no chances their destiny.
You should understand this quiet loudly, because YOU are the price.
I want to make it crystal clear, in almost all cases you are the price.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 14, 2019, 02:18:23 AM
An other example.
I spent last years several days with a young lady in her maximum mid thirties. SHe was speaking a decent english so we had a good level of communication.
She spent ten years to try to land and get a job doing different things. She couldn't approach a big city because her parents were poors and couldn't help her to pay a rental. See the problem no flat no job, no job no flat and additionnaly the rent is so expansive considering the paychek. For example in a little city a waitress got 100$ and if she is lucky a tip of 10 grivnas from time to time.

So at the end she contracted a job with the city hall in the  ity where her parents live, they let her the city flat while they live in the datcha now because they are retired.

She now has some life. But that's a poor life, like many many ukrainian people. But decent on an ukrainian standard.

So when you pass by, a guy like me, and she don't step in the adventure, and i respect her, that's her loss, not mine.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 14, 2019, 06:13:41 AM
Solid 7 waiting in the most luxuous supermarket of the city :
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on November 14, 2019, 06:21:14 AM
Ah the 'danger' of marking ladies out of ten .. VERY subjective ;)

NOT a fan of the footwear. either  ! 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 14, 2019, 08:27:29 AM
Ah the 'danger' of marking ladies out of ten .. VERY subjective ;)

NOT a fan of the footwear. either  !
Yeah on a daily basis it's not quite easy to walk with
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 15, 2019, 06:54:18 AM
so the end of the week is coming and all is going on a slow peace.   

THe good things are : 
I met with my local friends in the biggest club of the city, one of the biggest of Ukraine. Will try to take some photos for you to show, what's inside.
Sunday Erika will come most of the day and i will cook a meal for her in my appartment. I don't know what will happen or not happen. I think she is a nice woman mid fourties with good humor.   

I also walk a lot everyday : today probably 14 kilometers and yesterday i also ran.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 15, 2019, 07:10:43 AM
Now the bad news :
With badoo and tinder it's quite strange. It's like i am in a black box. So several times a girl could like or match me, i would send in less than hour a proposition for a meeting, in russian, and nothing comes back  :cluebat:

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 15, 2019, 07:18:12 AM
I also would prefer that Jane, in this city of Vinnitsa, that i met few months ago, indicates clearly me if she will come to the club with my local friends. 
SHe could came with a female friend. It's not i take a high pride of their venue because i could probably meet her again tomorrow, but it's question of respect for my local friends who are booking the restaurant.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 15, 2019, 07:40:19 AM
But the worst is there:
With this woman from Kiev i really liked it's going in the wall directly now.
I start to be pretty upset.
So i go through different emotional conditions and nothing good is coming at the end. However the privilege of age and experience is that you stay globally in control of yourself. I am glad to have not dropped the local dating, not repeating the same mistake like in 2011.

i had proposed her tuesday to abort finally this trip and help to reimburse this guy if she dares...

Yesterday i didn't contact her, till the end of the day, as she was leaving for Italy. I noticed however that she was coming quite frequently to Whatsapp, which is our usual mutual space. I finnally decided to give her a call at the end of day. She didn't answer me  but send a sms in the minute to tell me that she was in Munich airport.
i wrote, ok call me back when you will have some wifi at the hotel. She didn't call.

Today, mid day, i called one of the two phones she gave me and i stumbled across one of her business assistant as she has transferred the call, the phone being probably for her business. So I called the other phone and let it go as nobody answered.

A message came : "hello! i told you that i am in Europe, made a call forwarding. I Will be in Kiev on tuesday."
We had a very high volume of messages last days including several calls per day. We were on the phone while both in the bed before falling asleep yesterday midnight.

So yes i am pretty upset, is this not being rude? I remember your post Jone, we are close to the shit you described.

So i am oscillating between :
delete and block all her profiles
move on and do nothing, 
let her know that when a man takes care of a woman he calls her every day wherever she is, but now i am going to never call her except if she does it herself.

So for the moment i do nothing, nothing is in hurry anyway
Every bump, small or big, in life needs some time to be leveled, with age you take care to solve this appropriately.









Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 15, 2019, 08:38:10 AM
lol now i got a second message today from her saying that i called her employee.

Yes she made a phone transfer, so i got the employee while calling her and ???   :wallbash:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on November 15, 2019, 10:08:27 AM
Move on.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SteveInBoston on November 15, 2019, 11:40:59 AM
Silence is golden.

Pat, leave this one alone.  Let her be with the other guy, or come back to you. 

As a third party, all this brooding and trying to contact her looks desperate.  Have fun with your buddy and your other dates this weekend.  It's also a bit hypocritical while you date and evaluate other women that you don't want this one to evaluate other men.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 15, 2019, 11:58:44 AM
Silence is golden.

Pat, leave this one alone.  Let her be with the other guy, or come back to you. 

As a third party, all this brooding and trying to contact her looks desperate.  Have fun with your buddy and your other dates this weekend.  It's also a bit hypocritical while you date and evaluate other women that you don't want this one to evaluate other men.

I think that i will take this one. 
And after the silence, if his silence is also her it will become Jone "move on". 
About this hipocrital evaluation.  I  have proposed to cancel her trip in Italy and me to shorten my time in Vinnitsa and move to Kiev saturday and sunday an part of monday because i leave Ukraine only monday at the end of the day. 
So earlier has she would have been clear about what she wanted to and earlier i would have cut every hipocrisis.
In FSU while you are dating VM you have to clearly put the ranking priority on generally one, two ladies maximum and ready to drop any others ASAP if conditions need it. If she would have told me i am at the train station in Vinnitsa, come to pick me up (test that a FSU woman is absolutely capable to perform), i would have cancel all my schedule in 5 minutes and pick her up in 15 minutes)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Faux Pas on November 15, 2019, 04:10:25 PM
A message came : "hello! i told you that i am in Europe, made a call forwarding. I Will be in Kiev on tuesday."
We had a very high volume of messages last days including several calls per day. We were on the phone while both in the bed before falling asleep yesterday midnight.

So yes i am pretty upset, is this not being rude? I remember your post Jone, we are close to the shit you described.

So i am oscillating between :
delete and block all her profiles
move on and do nothing, 
let her know that when a man takes care of a woman he calls her every day wherever she is, but now i am going to never call her except if she does it herself.


IMHO she is not being rude. Likely a bit miffed and letting you know that but it's not rude. Hold you're horses there Kemosabe. You getting mad, deleting here profiles, blowing a gasket isn't a logical rational decision. She's on the trip. You like this lady, you feel she likes you. Don't f*ck it up by letting your temper control you. Ca 'sera sera. Forget her for now and plan to see her Tuesday in Kiev as planned
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on November 15, 2019, 05:23:40 PM
IMHO she is not being rude. Likely a bit miffed and letting you know that but it's not rude. Hold you're horses there Kemosabe. You getting mad, deleting here profiles, blowing a gasket isn't a logical rational decision. She's on the trip. You like this lady, you feel she likes you. Don't f*ck it up by letting your temper control you. Ca 'sera sera. Forget her for now and plan to see her Tuesday in Kiev as planned

Some women like a guy being jealous over her.  I've never thought that those were women worth having.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 15, 2019, 05:56:50 PM
IMHO she is not being rude. Likely a bit miffed and letting you know that but it's not rude. Hold you're horses there Kemosabe. You getting mad, deleting here profiles, blowing a gasket isn't a logical rational decision. She's on the trip. You like this lady, you feel she likes you. Don't f*ck it up by letting your temper control you. Ca 'sera sera. Forget her for now and plan to see her Tuesday in Kiev as planned
Finally you know we cross each other here for ten years now, and month by month there is a sensation of a human being, a sensation of friendship raised. 
 And after all those years i feel today that what could be an abstract carrefour trough the net is in fact a network of hearted people, men likely (not because women are not, but because rwd is mainly men writers).   
There are some fight sometimes, but the main contributors of this forum are good hearted.

And i am happy to be among them tonight. It warms my heart. I feel less lonely. I feel that those rwd people have tumbled into the same bumpy roads yesterday and today, like me.
And that's good to read what you say, because it's the color of the truth. The truth has slightly color depending of each personality, that's give the world a lot of wealth.

So Faux Pas, i am also miffed, probably more than her, but i hold my horses, and shut up.
And as i said i shut up and if she shuts up, we gonna to aim to the Jone solution "move on"




Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 15, 2019, 06:02:28 PM
Some women like a guy being jealous over her.  I've never thought that those were women worth having.


Jone i didn't feel that she wanted to make me being jealous. 
I think Faux Pas is right she was miffed, remember the sunday morning when i called her on a behalf of an other. I think she was miffled. 
She also, as many women, but probably more than other ones because she is quite classy, hates to get the slut feeling.   
In her case she don't want to feel like a slut, don't want to feel to be guilty, like many women in fact. So if she could avoid to manage two men during the same vacations in Italy it gives her a break and she can breathe.
It's why she spontaneously came to kiss me on the cheek when i told her sunday that i understand her situation and will make no pressure on her. 
The fact that i called while she was on trip and my proposition to her to cancel her trip and to help to reimburse the italian guy, had been lived as a pressure, very likely i think.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 15, 2019, 06:21:27 PM
IMHO she is not being rude. Likely a bit miffed and letting you know that but it's not rude. Hold you're horses there Kemosabe. You getting mad, deleting here profiles, blowing a gasket isn't a logical rational decision. She's on the trip. You like this lady, you feel she likes you. Don't f*ck it up by letting your temper control you. Ca 'sera sera. Forget her for now and plan to see her Tuesday in Kiev as planned
We will not meet in Kiev tuesday 
I leave Kiev monday,   
She comes back from Italy tuesday. 
The maybe next step she proposed was an extended week end in Lvov.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on November 15, 2019, 09:22:10 PM
Alexis,

You are one class act!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 16, 2019, 02:23:35 AM
Alexis,

You are one class act!
Thank you Jone.
She has also a trait that i find class act, she helped Maidan people during the revolution, don't know on which scale, and still soldiers on the front. I would love to help her.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 16, 2019, 02:30:13 AM
The last news, fresh, 45 minutes:

mistress (ex?) who absolutely wanted me to not go to Ukraine, and wanted to attach me in a bed last week end takes the plane today for Ukraine. I wait to talk with her.

But she is aiming a city in the north  of Ukraine i think and we will not meet.  8)
I love her popka very much and her popka loves me very much  :P , this type of love story always works when the light is shut off  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 16, 2019, 12:37:11 PM

I love her popka very much . . .

And . . . anything else ??

What about the British fanny (as we recently had explained to us here) ??
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 16, 2019, 12:51:40 PM
News from the front:

And especially the lady from Kiev.
Today she sent two photos. The photos are basically shit, but you care.

since yesterday i stayed totally muted. The only thing she can know is that i saw the photos and when, for the last time i came on whatsapp.
And i come here quite frequently because i also use whatsapp to talk with Erika whou will arrive tomorrow at the end of the morning;
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 16, 2019, 12:54:38 PM
And . . . anything else ??

What about the British fanny (as we recently had explained to us here) ??
I take care about animals you know
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 16, 2019, 02:06:34 PM
So today, surprise surprise, i got an "official invitation" of my ex mother in law. The one who had been operated with the help of the money that i had to give to my ex wife.
For someone who had been operated from the heart, the result was impressive. She is in shape, not even tired, amazing. Very happy for her. I like her and she reallys likes me, she had tears in the eyes when i came and when i had to go.

i bought cholocate, flowers and champaign. For her that's a second life. Udachi.

i Was with my friend, the father of the daughter of ex wifey.

He saved her life, finding the right surgeon, giving first the money before ex wifey reimburses.
The son of my ex Mil did nothing, he didn't even come to the hospital. Ex wifey stayed a very short time, and all is fine never crossed her way.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 16, 2019, 02:58:32 PM
What are you looking for with these trips? I mean, are you looking for a wife?  A long term partner?  Casual sex?


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 16, 2019, 06:43:41 PM
Hi Bo to answer quickly and directly to your answer i hope to find a long term relationship.

We have here usually, and it concerns the vast majority of men, and i did it myself, FSU women emigrating for the west. Only few guys live permanently in FSU and few are expats, which means that they are temporary working in FSU.

I had been friend for years with a fellow who had a uncommon status. He was travelling back and forth for years before getting a long term visa. However he married localy under the ukrainian law. Her wife never manifested the desire of leaving the country. At a moment she could have follow him if he had found a job in Paris. But that didn't happen.

There are other reasons that make my road crossing Ukraine. i have some dental work to do and it's not yet finished. Since french dentist messed her job three years ago my dentist try to go through and put it back in order. I enjoy my recreationnal time here, dating is fun and casual sex can occur but also practicing my russian. Yesterday i could, for the first time of my live, have a somehow of conversation with my ex MIL and the father of the daughter of my ex wife  :D

I think that there is a public of women ready to date foreigners seriously, they don't wan't to emigrate with all the heavy consequences needed. I come across more and more of woman who don't want to deal again with their fellows local men.I met a journalist few months ago, this is the last thing she wants to do : start a relationship with a local guy.
i have already solved the problem of the long terme visa in Ukraine. It costs some money but you can get a 3 years visa that avoid you the hassle of the 180/90 days of the tourism visa.

So you don't even need to get married to stay in Ukraine for a long time and you can set a little business.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 16, 2019, 06:50:55 PM
so this morning Erika will come in the city. I Have some little gifts for her, a little bood,a diary whith PARIS as title. She will like this type book. I ALSO book some little animal in wood you put in the tree for christmas.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 17, 2019, 10:10:41 AM
i had given to Erika a nice little calendar with a fashioned paper and some little animals in wood you put in Christmas' tree.

But firs of all let me you tell you what happened yesterday, saturday with the woman who had been my terp two years ago.
She invited me to her school for the second time to talk with some studends.
The fact is that i usually impress studends and at the same time this woman got a lot of sparks in the eyes.
Her two daughters were there, i am in love with the youngest one, don't know why, but i really like this little young girl. She looks so serious, but she is not even a teen.

Her mum touched me repeatdely, she kept my hand till i release the touch with my hand at a moment. I tease her a lot, whoever is around.  But the most powerful message comes from her eyes. She has very beautiful blue eyes. She wants to learn french in the future and starve to hear me speaking in french. She finds it very beautiful. I do my best to tell her something very musical and poetic of course.
I can do such exercise on spot, that's one my talent.
She also starts to understand that i have some real skills to help at school. However i am quite aware that you don't become a teacher in one day. And having free speech and structured lesson, especially for beginners, is a totally different thing.

THe ring she wears at the right hand don't look like a wedding ring or marriage i saw before if i don't make any mistake. So i suppose it's one of her previous ring.
I didn't see her on Fdating, and anyway it will be very difficult for her to date a man because she has almost no time now with her own business.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on November 17, 2019, 10:18:30 AM
Pat,

Quick question for you:   When she interprets, does she translate Ukrainian to English?   You said she wants to learn French, so I assume that is the current translation method.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 17, 2019, 10:40:58 AM
Yesterday i got back from the club at 02:00  minimum and couldn't sleep before 03:00 at least, so after visiting my ex MIL and doing my best with students i was exhausted.
IN Bartolomeo i performed well while dancing. Not a lot of people there, maybee because it was friday and we are not in summer. This summer it was crowded. I prefer this version, not crowded.
A lot of young girls mainly. My friend told me that two brunettes were alone waiting at the bar, and he was right they wanted to meet someone, they were young, around 25, not really my target.  But i know that in this place there are potentially a lot of pro, and i don't want to deal with them or finish in weird situation.

So saturday during the evening i should have gone to the most luxuous supermarket to buy the necessary food for Erika, the woman i was waiting sunday. But i was so tired that i went directly back home after my performance with the students and didn't move till sunday.

The plan was to cook for her, it had been setup for a long time. And i wanted to do my best and respect the tradition. Aperitive with champaign, special french meal, cake with fruits, french bread, mid sweet red wine for the meat ....Before cooking i had to know what was available at this supermarket, even it's the best, most luxuous supermarket of the city.

So sunday morning i woke up quite early and went to the supermaket. It almost never happens but the fact is that i forgot my phones at home. When i came back i look at it and Erika has alreday dropped some messages.
I finally understood that she was already in the city and waiting for me. This is something that's prevalent in the eastern culture. They couldn't tell you : i should arrive between 11:00 and 11:30 so everybody knows what to do. I tried to ask her,  but no,  forget.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 17, 2019, 10:47:31 AM
Pat,

Quick question for you:   When she interprets, does she translate Ukrainian to English?   You said she wants to learn French, so I assume that is the current translation method.
I found out that all women manage ukrainian and russian during the same time. 
So at the end it makes no difference for them, so i suppose that she is perfectly capable to translate Ukrainian to english. However, she is not a terp anymore today. 
And if you ask her to translate let say Shakespear in ukrainian she could have a fight.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 17, 2019, 10:54:16 AM
So i pick up Erika at the train station.
She is tall at least like my ex wifey.
And if you don't put her under scrutiny you would not notice her too much. 

She belongs to a new type of ukrainian women.The one who hide themselves. 

they hide thamselves on the internets sites.
and they hide themselves in the streets.
 
BUT
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 17, 2019, 10:58:29 AM
Pat,

Quick question for you:   When she interprets, does she translate Ukrainian to English?   You said she wants to learn French, so I assume that is the current translation method.
If you need one, who also speaks french among english, russian and ukrainian I know one from Kharkov, she is honest and you can rely on her. She can come to you provided that you pay her of course. I suppose that she is still working. Send me a PM if necessary.
Will be happy to help you if you need.To close your question, the best terps for ukrainian should be around Lviv, if the level expected in ukrainian is very high.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 17, 2019, 11:01:52 AM
BUT you wouldn't let them rotting on a shelve too long or you have serious sexual problems or you are blind or you have lost both hands at war.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 17, 2019, 11:07:23 AM
Considering that i have none of those problems i start to look at her with some curiosity, KANECHNA. :welcome:

In fact she is at least a 7 and depending of the light and tilt shis is close to a 8. I like her hair, i like her eyes, i like her glasses, her fringe of her, i like her eyebrows, i like her ears. But to tell you this i needed several hours to find it out.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 17, 2019, 11:12:26 AM
So bring a lady directly to your appartment is ... euh

Needs to be soften.
She has already made a move of hour, waiting probably half hour at the train station, so you have to give her some respect and caring.

I proposed her to have a cofffee, in a coffee bar.

More you multiply the moves, the locations during a meeting, and better is will be. THe comfort is multiplied, her comfort gets better (your comfort nobody cares).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 17, 2019, 11:20:29 AM
Wiht Erika i never had a real photo of her before. She managed to give me some "fuzzy" photos and never close photos.
I was sure that she was slim, elseif i would have never wanted to meet her. And i guessed that she was absolutely not ugly. In the worst case, average.

So this woman starts to perform like so many western women on the western dating sites. You have many western women who hides themselves because if they show too much pretty photo they will flooded in few hours or few days.

Later in the conversation, she told me about those men, the keyboard romeos, and all who ask erotic photo. My gush, who are those primates? Last time i visited a cave this summer i found out any. But they still exist.
Don't understand why they don't switch to some porno, easier and quicker. 

 Of course i believe her, she is a normal woman.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 17, 2019, 11:26:14 AM
It seems to be that there are many caves that i didn't visit, i should reconsider how i travel, i am missing some treasures of this new civilization.

It's why you come at an handy time, you the french lover. THe cooker, the guy with humour, the guy with the right time to escalate the ladder and steal her lips in the tranway while she becomes hotter and hotter from the inside minute after minute.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 17, 2019, 11:31:21 AM
All started to be true after the lunch i performed for her, we were crossing the street to take the tranway and i grabbed her hand, at this moment i understood that Erika was going to kiss me with passion. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 17, 2019, 11:33:57 AM
You couldn't have know by seing her sitting on the couch during the prime time she was in my home.
She was intimitated, afraid maybe.
I calibrated very accurately my non verbal expression and location accordingly to this.

On the same time she was in fact enjoying her time, her trip.
I am, i was the first foreigner she had ever met, so the pressure on me was immense. The sovereignty of my country was at stake. 1500 years of history could disappear now, because some meat improperly cooked maybe. Worse than Trafalgar. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 17, 2019, 11:40:19 AM
Bring her, bring them in the childhood is one my skill.
So for the dessert i told her :

ok go to the saloon, shut your eyes.
Yes.
No you don't i know you   
Put your hands on your eyes now.   
I did and so on, that the game....  That's life.... That's joy ... that's joking.... that's real.... that's flirting....
 

And they came, two lovely fruit cakes with their red fruits hidding themselves in a nice decorated box. And of course you let her to open the box and enjoy. A so little thing but it brings sometimes so much joy to a lady because in this season they don't usually eat such dessert.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 17, 2019, 11:54:30 AM
so, when during a date an FSU lady
is repeatdly saying, class, class, ochen class
It's like the Veteran day while all those medalists are greeting you from the first row till the end of the parade.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 17, 2019, 01:08:09 PM
Oh ukrainian girls start to be on bumble also now, i got few profiles tonight, before never. This site is IMHO a piece of shit. One of them was a pro.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2019, 02:31:35 AM
After the lunch we went to the bowling, something she never did.   
Things were going well, holding hands, very close to each other, first kiss on the lips, second kiss on the lips.   

After the bowling it was time to come back.
In the tranway the situation started to be hot like too teenagers grabbing each other, rubbing each other, a quite unusal spectacle in Ukraine, fortunately she don't live in this city.
 I could feel her becoming hotter and hotter. As i was kissing her in the neck and around her ear whe was wiggling and, at the same time, grabbing me more than before, i could her pelves pressing mine from time to time.   :P
Suddenly i saw our station close to our eyes. I told oh that's it, lets go.
She smiled and didn't want to move.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2019, 02:41:18 AM
ANTI SLUT ACTIVATION SYTEM  ;D
She perfectly knew that the second i would have closed the door of the flat  the clothes would have  vanished onto the floor and her popka would have been gently assaulted.
She knew.
I knew.
So she explained me that she was ready to do it, but next time na na, anti slut activation system.

We had already missed the station and we were aiming now for her bus station.
So what to do?
Come along to the bus station and help her boarding, you are a gentleman no?


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2019, 02:50:48 AM
It was approximatively 18h00 while i was escaping from the bus platform and i started to slightly push out my mobile phone from my pochet but hidding this from her and case she was still looking at me.
I immediately called the women who invited me to meet her students. The day before she had let me know that we could meet sunday. We were sunday but of course i could not answer because of my date with Erika and of course you don't fuckin know when that date will stop.

Unfortunately as sunday is her only day free she was aiming the supermarkeet to buy some clothes for her daughters, so my dating day was close.
At the end, happy with this, could type some posts for RWD and relax.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2019, 02:55:56 AM
So now i am in Kiev, i arrived by the night train in the early morning.
I have already walked 10 kilometers, went to the national aviation museum Kiev to shot a Yak 3 for a friend, but unfortunately the museum is closed monday.
I could however make some shooting as the fighter is almost in the entrance.

I swiped some women on Tinder and one matched me. I wrote to her to have a meeting but she is busy and could meet before i board my plane.

So you have to stay on the move and open any oppportunity you have, who knows?


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2019, 03:02:12 AM
As ML stated, this ten days were quite messy and next time i should proceed differently to have better results. More dates.
I think also that i am quite burnt with badoo and tinder on those two cites, even if Kiev sees on ongoing stram of new ladies.
I don't know what next but clearly fdating, vk should be on the list, maybe an other dating site i don't know right now popular and i don't know. Oh i know a french one, a good one, is he still alive? I Need to check next time.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2019, 03:24:48 AM
So what's the future?
Chto slouchilass?
Tomorrow the lady of Kiev will return from her trip in Italy.
She forces me to shut up, which i did. She sent two photos two days ago. I opened the message but didn't answer. I suppose now she has slept with this man (yesterday), to be confirmed, that a simple supposition, so her interest in me now should be close to NOL (nul, zero), but it's not like how women work, they prefer generally to keep an ace in their pocket. This is what you have to find out, if your position is to be a backup, the throwable man, or someone of first importance. You have to find out to manage the situation in accordance with you own best interests;

All of this needs to be confirmed. And that's why i will contact yesterday or the day after. Nothing bad can come from few questions. It should come like this "when i really like a woman i try to call her every day wherever she is staying in the world. You forced me to shut up, and i did. Now you have came back from Italy, what do you propose?
No drama, very few sentences easily understandable, an open question. A trip to Lviv was at stake, so if she don't jump on this one you have your answer, basically.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2019, 03:27:52 AM
I want to sort it out first this lady from Kiev considering the importance i gave her and still give her.
But you can feel how i release all the pressure on me.
this is the first thing to do, before considering what to do with Erika.
THis woman of Kiev for many reasons was on the right spot i am searching for.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2019, 05:04:19 AM
Mistress (loubovnitsa) is, as i guessed, in the north of Ukraine.

I have started to plan something with her. I had to explain her the procedure to do it. But that's my plan. And i doubt she is capable to follow any plan as her life has nothing to do with any constraints.

The problem is that her life depends mainly exclusively of this others, who have to do the job : raise her daughter, bring money, drive her (got her licence only at 38), repair or renovate real estate and so on.....
It reminds me my wife somehow.

why i like to see mistress? she is good in the sack, and she is not after my money (not yet).

I could have a real life wihh my ex wife really, i had...
with this one, as one my very good friend usually says "she is not manageable", t think so.

She considers that i am a very tough man, probably because i see her coming miles away and she cannot sit me like a little puppy when she wants.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2019, 05:24:24 AM
oH guys, we have some hot news from the front.

It seems to be that a white JSU152 is manoeuvering through the forest and trying to get into position.

Should i load a 88mm piercing  ammo right now or should i wait him to come closer?
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2019, 05:30:54 AM
the woman from Kiev, who is still in Italy just sent a message (didn't open it yet, and will wait)

Maybe the italian guy got a flat dick all the night and they use it as a boister cover?

 

Faux Pas congrats for your advice. Thank fellow.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2019, 05:40:03 AM
In fact less you give a shit and harder they are interested in you. It's not the first time i came to this conclusion, and i am not the only one to have retrieved such lesson from the field.   
However you have to already put the relationship to a specifif level.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2019, 05:48:14 AM
Oh by the way i want to give you a confidential information about Nelson and what happened at Trafalgar.  Because yes one member of my family was a on the Redoutable.
In fact Nelson didn't die of a bullet, that's the official story.
In fact frenchies launched a secret weapon to the Nelson's vessel.
A corsican cheese landed on the deck and  many officers and sailors died on the spot .
Neslon had been transported asap to the head physician but nobody knows how to save him. That's how he died, he suffered a lot before.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2019, 05:53:36 AM
It's why i never transport a corsican cheese,

too dangerous,
and to avoid any accuation related to terrorism  :popcorn: 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Faux Pas on November 18, 2019, 08:48:12 AM
So what's the future?
Chto slouchilass?
Tomorrow the lady of Kiev will return from her trip in Italy.
She forces me to shut up, which i did. She sent two photos two days ago. I opened the message but didn't answer. I suppose now she has slept with this man (yesterday), to be confirmed, that a simple supposition, so her interest in me now should be close to NOL (nul, zero), but it's not like how women work, they prefer generally to keep an ace in their pocket. This is what you have to find out, if your position is to be a backup, the throwable man, or someone of first importance. You have to find out to manage the situation in accordance with you own best interests;

All of this needs to be confirmed. And that's why i will contact yesterday or the day after. Nothing bad can come from few questions. It should come like this "when i really like a woman i try to call her every day wherever she is staying in the world. You forced me to shut up, and i did. Now you have came back from Italy, what do you propose?
No drama, very few sentences easily understandable, an open question. A trip to Lviv was at stake, so if she don't jump on this one you have your answer, basically.

Meh, all the more reason to not write this lady off, just yet. She's still heavy on your mind. Obviously you are on hers. You've mentioned her here yet, again. The meeting you want apparently isn't going to be this time, maybe the next. If she slept with the Italian, that's completely her business. You knew she wasn't a virgin anyway, yes?

My point is, as long as you are still playing the game of looking for love don't kick her out of the game at this point. You liked this one more than any of the others from your writings here. You'd be selling yourself short. She had previous plans and she damaged your ego that she wouldn't break them. She's honorable woman for not breaking her commitment and of course she could also be a gold digger that can't pass up a trip. Your problem is, you do not know which. Play it out old friend. As long as you are uncommitted and in the game, see where it goes
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 18, 2019, 10:28:41 AM
I am going to disagree.  You don't understand the culture, really, Pat, and you are searching in the wrong fields, if you are looking for a future wife.  Kiev woman may get you hot and bothered, but she is not really wife material. 


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on November 18, 2019, 12:20:35 PM
Meh, all the more reason to not write this lady off, just yet. She's still heavy on your mind. Obviously you are on hers. You've mentioned her here yet, again. The meeting you want apparently isn't going to be this time, maybe the next. If she slept with the Italian, that's completely her business. You knew she wasn't a virgin anyway, yes?

My point is, as long as you are still playing the game of looking for love don't kick her out of the game at this point. You liked this one more than any of the others from your writings here. You'd be selling yourself short. She had previous plans and she damaged your ego that she wouldn't break them. She's honorable woman for not breaking her commitment and of course she could also be a gold digger that can't pass up a trip. Your problem is, you do not know which. Play it out old friend. As long as you are uncommitted and in the game, see where it goes

Who's to say she's not telling this man in Italy that she is going back to her suave Frenchman waiting for her in Kyiv?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on November 18, 2019, 12:39:42 PM
I agree with Boe. You went panning for gold and ended up with mud. Don't try and fashion a necklace out of mud, all you will fabricate is a noose. I think you are driven by sex and it clouds your judgment.

As Bill says the most important attribute of a woman is character, non-negotiable. I'd move on. I haven't read Bill's story but he is generally on point with advice (if taking a WMVM or WNVM approach). So-so girls are time wasters, and the most valuable commodity you have is time. She sounds like a so-so girl or a player, not a good girl.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2019, 01:14:47 PM
Meh, all the more reason to not write this lady off, just yet. She's still heavy on your mind. Obviously you are on hers. You've mentioned her here yet, again. The meeting you want apparently isn't going to be this time, maybe the next. If she slept with the Italian, that's completely her business. You knew she wasn't a virgin anyway, yes?

My point is, as long as you are still playing the game of looking for love don't kick her out of the game at this point. You liked this one more than any of the others from your writings here. You'd be selling yourself short. She had previous plans and she damaged your ego that she wouldn't break them. She's honorable woman for not breaking her commitment and of course she could also be a gold digger that can't pass up a trip. Your problem is, you do not know which. Play it out old friend. As long as you are uncommitted and in the game, see where it goes
I will stick on this, because i absolutely share your point.
It's time to get back some benefits from the time spent maybee and not throw the water with the baby lol.
More time is needed to know more about her. This is why i try to understand her past life and today life with this divorce.
She was surely not married to the poorest and generally after a divorce a lot of FSU women have more difficult time. So for what i know she don't have a car, but a flat few kilometers of center Kiev but i didn't see the flat. She "ows" a little company in video shooting but she admits that the business is hard which fulfills with the global ukrainian economy. Nothing surprising, and no repeated complaints from her. She paid her taxi and tried to pay her concert seat, wich was quite expansive. She take a great care of prices before choosing the restaurant. 

The main concern is this company, because if the divorce is not yet signed ans this company is shared property it could raise some serious concerns.

I stay away more than ever from flashy profiles with photos in the usual high style places. It's a red flag for me more than anything. The all bikini photos, i throw it away.

What's interesting is to understand the dynamics. More time is needed simply.
It just needs to stay uncommited and open the eyes, as you wrote it, FP.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2019, 01:19:52 PM
Who's to say she's not telling this man in Italy that she is going back to her suave Frenchman waiting for her in Kyiv?
It could be, or not, or half.
That's one of the main parameter to check.
It will show if she is ready to some form of commitment or not. I will not pursue her if she not capable of commitment because i know that i can have some feelings. So i will drop her before to protect me.
Something that has to be clearly monitored of course while the time goes by.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2019, 01:30:42 PM
I agree with Boe. You went panning for gold and ended up with mud. Don't try and fashion a necklace out of mud, all you will fabricate is a noose. I think you are driven by sex and it clouds your judgment.

As Bill says the most important attribute of a woman is character, non-negotiable. I'd move on. I haven't read Bill's story but he is generally on point with advice (if taking a WMVM or WNVM approach). So-so girls are time wasters, and the most valuable commodity you have is time. She sounds like a so-so girl or a player, not a good girl.
You are right i went panning for gold and got some mud. But now i have recovered and the ball came is coming back in the middle of the football field, now i temporary have the ball in front of my feet.
However you are making a mistake, i am not driven by sex, you should read all the topic "operation white panther" to understand more about who i am. I have an outstanding willingness when i have decided to do or not do things.
When i decided to stop touching my wife, i spent 200 additional nights with her sharing the same bed. My wife was a 8.4, 177 cm 58kg, i am very picky and in fact she could had been a model. But i never touched her again, because i decided. And i didn't touched any other woman during one year.
No, because i have decided to not to do.
Sex doesn't drive my life. Emotions, like women, probably yes.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2019, 01:47:04 PM
I got a second message from the lady of Kiev. She could see that i come to whatsapp but her messages are not read. Lol.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 18, 2019, 03:25:23 PM
So now i am back to France et quite exhausted because i have walked barely 20 kilometers today.
More tomorrow about Erika and so on.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 18, 2019, 06:50:05 PM
I don't know much about any of the FSU gals that Pat met with on  this trip.

But I don't know there is anything particularly bad about the gal who went to Italy.

The gals have just as much right to be dating multiple guys as we guys have to date multiple gals . . .

up to the point that we make commitments to each other.

But maybe I am not aware of (or forgot) something bad this gal did; because I got pretty confused in trying to keep up with Pat's report for this trip.

Others can remind me.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 19, 2019, 02:55:16 AM
I am going to disagree.  You don't understand the culture, really, Pat, and you are searching in the wrong fields, if you are looking for a future wife.  Kiev woman may get you hot and bothered, but she is not really wife material. 


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Bo may you explain us the culture, so it will be profitable for any members. 
I know an other culture, the women culture and for me this one is barely universal. 

I am not exactly looking for a future wife, i would nevertheless be glad to have a nice long term relationship and IMHO that's not exactly the same. 
 
About the wife material, i don't believe that women drop of an uterus with a tattoo specifying "wife material", "slut material" "party girl".   
The world is not black and white, mostly grey. 
Two people could be the perfect match but if they are not ready to commit towards a relationship, to commit to "gather their soul" at the SAME time it will never work.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 19, 2019, 03:54:34 AM
I don't know much about any of the FSU gals that Pat met with on  this trip.

But I don't know there is anything particularly bad about the gal who went to Italy.

The gals have just as much right to be dating multiple guys as we guys have to date multiple gals . . .

up to the point that we make commitments to each other.

But maybe I am not aware of (or forgot) something bad this gal did; because I got pretty confused in trying to keep up with Pat's report for this trip.

Others can remind me.
Good point my friend.

Reminds me a situation that i faced in 2010.
I was dating few ladies introduced by a trusty terp.
One was promising and things were going so fine that she told me that she had to go to a travel and i should accompany her.
I liked her, i had enough vacations to go and i bought my tickets.

But just before the travel i had a last meeting, a personal friend of my terp, already scheduled and i didn't want to be rude.
The fact is also very much liked this lady. I invited her in the restaurant to dance in the middle of the room, while people were looking at us as we were some aliens, it was priceless.
She liked the dance.
 
So just before boarding i sent her a SMS : i really like you but a lady i met before you invited me to travel. I am a man, i have to make decision. May i contact you again when i am back to Ukraine.
Answer : yes

The fact was that it didn't work with lady1. I got a plane in Rome and directly came back to see the lady i danced with. 
The second meeting i had never one so romantical. It happened in a shopping mall and she was waiting me with a red rose in the hand. We went to the first floor to have a coffee. She took a paper napkin and started to remove slowly and carefully her lipstick. When it was done she slowly leaned towards me and started to kiss me, on the lips.
 
Was I player ? Yes
Was i marriage material ? Totally
Was i dating several girls ? Yes
Was I the guy not capable to commit ? I commited one year later and married
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 19, 2019, 06:54:27 AM
So Erika has now two main regrets for what she told me:

1/ Not having met saturday and only sunday. 
2/ She believed that i was staying one more additionnal week.

So in fact i know what would have happened if she had been aware of me departure sunday. 
 
She would have left the tranway while it stopped in front of my flat.
And she would have lost her panty just as the door would have closed.
Yes 100 % true
It happened to me in Kiev in mai with my GF of Kiev of the pre-summer, the same, and she followed me in the flat, i asked nothing. And then a little massage, on the bed...  :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 19, 2019, 07:12:55 AM
Lady from Kiev yesterday sent me two messages:
1/ how are you
2/ ты на мена обижемЬ? Мы же обсуждали с тобой все. Если бы ты знал как все было не просто.   
 
The native speakers could probably translate better, i understood this :  Do you have some resentment against me? We discussed with you about everything. If you could know how things were not easy.
   
The ball is under my right feet. If i don't play it, i will find no one left on the lawn of the soccer stadium soon.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 19, 2019, 07:14:21 AM
Davai iglat football.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 19, 2019, 01:24:44 PM
The SU25 has just take off, spoilers has just been retracted and cruise speed still not reached.
Waiting clearance before aiming the target cap.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 19, 2019, 01:33:08 PM
I was thinking this morning about the Tinder strategy.
First of all there are some real and legit ladies here. Some pro, some gold diggers also, and some travellers also.
Well as i am targeting women only over 38 i avoid a lot of turbulences.

In fact we don't know how those stupid guys have programmed the algo.
This morning i realized that i got a match (among many others i could have got because i had open and swiped any profiles) when i was one hour in Frankfurt. I sent her a message and she answered.
All this stuff, i believe, gives you some points and IMHO gives you more visibility.
This morning i got in France a lot of nice local profiles (however there are also among them some foreigners who are here for an unknown temporary time).

So to make it short i could have been wrong by swiping in advance many FSU profiles of the two cities i was targeting.
Because if you do it while you landing you are probably getting some traction of your first "sucess" which gives you more visibility and so on. That's the same on Badoo but i think that Badoo cuts your inertia very quickly to oblige you to always put some money in their shit.I think that i gave 50 bucks to them those last two weeks. But i don't complain.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 19, 2019, 03:48:09 PM
Bo may you explain us the culture, so it will be profitable for any members. 

The society, the culture, the people can be summed up as empty. It is an emptiness that I think most here won't, refuse to, or can't understand.  Even you are surrounded by it, but don't/can't/refuse to see it.

Quote
I am not exactly looking for a future wife, i would nevertheless be glad to have a nice long term relationship and IMHO that's not exactly the same. 

No, in most cases, it is not.  But if you are willing to support a woman financially, this probably will not be a problem in Ukraine. 
 
Quote
About the wife material, i don't believe that women drop of an uterus with a tattoo specifying "wife material", "slut material" "party girl".   
The world is not black and white, mostly grey. 
Two people could be the perfect match but if they are not ready to commit towards a relationship, to commit to "gather their soul" at the SAME time it will never work.

The issue with Kiev woman was not that she was meeting another man.  It was everything that surrounded that.

My world is all about shades of grey.  However, actions speak louder than words, and actions will also tell us who someone is to their core.  For example, you have posted that your ex, and your married lover, both are mothers who need someone else to care for their children, who are at their core, as you describe, essentially hedonists looking at others to make their lives easier.  Do you believe that can change?  No, that is fundamentally who they are.  The only time that is going to change is when they become too old to attract gullible men, or have pissed off too many of the enablers who helped them.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: krimster2 on November 19, 2019, 05:56:57 PM
all events are based on probabilities...
one method to increase your probability of success generally, is to increase the “frequency” of your game... another is achieving “focus”

frequency just means increasing the quantity of contact with random women...
whatever your baseline is, you should have as a goal to raise it to at least 1,000 contacts with random women!!!!

for the average guy this means social media...

focus means you need to narrow your search to a specific group of women...
AND....
GET THEM TO COME TO YOU!!!

your focus is up to you....
my preference when I was younger, was the student artist/writer type....
so if I were hunting today, I’d create some kinda Russian literature/art history web site as a honey pot and then setup my own fan pages on VK for this web site and have my own chat group for it.... and use all the standard social media practices to boost traffic and promote my Russian web site!

BUT, you poor schmucks ne govoru po russki, awwwwwww........
but if you did, and setup a web site like I described....
you’d have the contacts of HUNDREDS of beautiful women in Russia and Ukraine....
dewds, it’s so freakin easy to do this!!!!

and you guys JUST DON'T GET IT!!!
once you get connected into a social network and click with someone and then go visit
you get connected to a REAL NETWORK automatically....
it's a quick way to bootstrap a life in Russia or Ukraine, I've done it several times!!!

my oldest daughter has a MASSIVE presence in social media in Russia and is an "influencer" there
I've met a gazillion famous people through her network of friends and their parents, etc...
this is how everybody rolls now...

social media is like having your own PR agent to promote you to whoever is interested...
so it's up to you to present something interesting to the audience you care about...

that's it...
have a nice day...

PS,
BTW, western dewds, Ukraine is about a year away from a MAJOR financial crisis...
your value to a Ukrainian woman is about to hit a record breaking peak value...
good luck in the merger and acquisition game
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 20, 2019, 01:37:25 AM
all events are based on probabilities...
one method to increase your probability of success generally, is to increase the “frequency” of your game... another is achieving “focus”

frequency just means increasing the quantity of contact with random women...
whatever your baseline is, you should have as a goal to raise it to at least 1,000 contacts with random women!!!!

for the average guy this means social media...

focus means you need to narrow your search to a specific group of women...
AND....
GET THEM TO COME TO YOU!!!

your focus is up to you....
my preference when I was younger, was the student artist/writer type....
so if I were hunting today, I’d create some kinda Russian literature/art history web site as a honey pot and then setup my own fan pages on VK for this web site and have my own chat group for it.... and use all the standard social media practices to boost traffic and promote my Russian web site!

BUT, you poor schmucks ne govoru po russki, awwwwwww........
but if you did, and setup a web site like I described....
you’d have the contacts of HUNDREDS of beautiful women in Russia and Ukraine....
dewds, it’s so freakin easy to do this!!!!

and you guys JUST DON'T GET IT!!!
once you get connected into a social network and click with someone and then go visit
you get connected to a REAL NETWORK automatically....
it's a quick way to bootstrap a life in Russia or Ukraine, I've done it several times!!!

my oldest daughter has a MASSIVE presence in social media in Russia and is an "influencer" there
I've met a gazillion famous people through her network of friends and their parents, etc...
this is how everybody rolls now...

social media is like having your own PR agent to promote you to whoever is interested...
so it's up to you to present something interesting to the audience you care about...

that's it...
have a nice day...

PS,
BTW, western dewds, Ukraine is about a year away from a MAJOR financial crisis...
your value to a Ukrainian woman is about to hit a record breaking peak value...
good luck in the merger and acquisition game
 
Krimster i damned get what you mean, and even if i am not a pro in IT like you; i have however some knowledge and skills in this area. 
I am assessing what angle i shoud use to get the maximum interest in the future because i had read two books of  SEO and it's better to build your social medias around your "project".
The project could be  centered around french art, french litterature, cross cultural exchanges, discovering the real french art of life (not the stupid photos i see everywhere with the Effeil tower and Monaco, and Monaco is not France), this type of.
I frankly believe that you are perfectly right, especially when a guy like me is ready in the future to have extensive period of time in FSU.
One of the major obstacle is the language but i am working on it. There is a second obstacle that i don't want to explain here for the moment.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 20, 2019, 02:11:53 AM
Quote from: Patagonie on Yesterday at 02:55:16 AM (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=13384.msg521939#msg521939)<blockquote>Bo may you explain us the culture, so it will be profitable for any members. 
</blockquote>
The society, the culture, the people can be summed up as empty. It is an emptiness that I think most here won't, refuse to, or can't understand.  Even you are surrounded by it, but don't/can't/refuse to see it.

Quote

Boethius,
I start to retrieve what you say about people being summed up as empty. Effectively a lot of foreigners finding a spouse don't come along because 99% of time women will emigrate and definitively adopt an other life, a life that would be filled in their new country. So the foreigners don't have time to get involved into the real and daily life of FSU citizens. A lot of men are also NOT interested to understand the culture considering that their wifes will adopt their anyway. I met an ukrainian woman in a plane who has complained about this one time, you know, the "i want 100% ukrainian look but don't bother me if you have some problems to adapt".  There are men like this unfortunately.

This emptiness is also, and mainly, an economical problem, some women (many!) work 6 days per week, with few period of vacations, they have to spend a long time to go back and forth to their jobs, the paychecks are small and they don't have the energy, time and money to bother about the next opera coming in the city. Or they live in too remote area to have such fancy occupation. And or transports is an headache.

I had a friend (ex wifey messed up our friendship in 2016) living in Ukraine, married to a local. I observed his wife. Yes i didn't detected any hobby or cultural stuff in her life.

But relationship and happiness between women and man are not necessary based on a blossoming cultural and intellectual life.

Also i do believe that in the biggest cities of Ukraine, and especially in the young generation there is an interest for such type of life.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 20, 2019, 02:16:15 AM
<blockquote>I am not exactly looking for a future wife, i would nevertheless be glad to have a nice long term relationship and IMHO that's not exactly the same.  </blockquote>
No, in most cases, it is not.  But if you are willing to support a woman financially, this probably will not be a problem in Ukraine. 
quote

I am ready to help a woman financially. If you want to enjoy some time in her company, make her life easier (and your by the same time), there are no other way.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 20, 2019, 02:40:13 AM
 
Quote<blockquote>About the wife material, i don't believe that women drop of an uterus with a tattoo specifying "wife material", "slut material" "party girl".   
The world is not black and white, mostly grey. 
Two people could be the perfect match but if they are not ready to commit towards a relationship, to commit to "gather their soul" at the SAME time it will never work.
</blockquote>
The issue with Kiev woman was not that she was meeting another man.  It was everything that surrounded that.

My world is all about shades of grey.  However, actions speak louder than words, and actions will also tell us who someone is to their core.  For example, you have posted that your ex, and your married lover, both are mothers who need someone else to care for their children, who are at their core, as you describe, essentially hedonists looking at others to make their lives easier.  Do you believe that can change?  No, that is fundamentally who they are.  The only time that is going to change is when they become too old to attract gullible men, or have pissed off too many of the enablers who helped them.<quote>

__________________________________________________________________________ _________

About ex wifey and mistress i 100% share your opinion. When the beauty would have vanished or people would tired of them they will start to hit the wall. And they have no reason to change since them.   

When mistress came at my place it raised a red flag in less than one hour. Lets me explain. She started to look around my house and started to speak about how to find some place in my property to make a garden (there is no garden in my property) and making promotion of how nice it is to have a garden. I damned know that she is not gonna to buy such house, not today and not tomorrow because she doesn't have the money, and never she will earn it.
 
I have been there, with little budget when i was younger, i had had little condo before being capable to buy such house and i worked hard many years. Every time i was in some house of some people i know or even in a house of a GF the first thing i did, even if i disliked lets say the painting, is to SHUT UP.
 If someone has a bigger house and more expansive house than me i would consider that i own him some respect because he has achieved something bigger than i even if the garage is small, the terass is dirty or the floor is shit. Eventually if this people tell me : "you know i would like to renovate the kitchen what do you think if i do this or i do that ?". So yes will give my honest opinion.
That's how i am.

This woman came to place and started to dream about how to modify my property to her own interest, you get the picture.
Just shut up for the moment, bring 400 grands on the table, and AFTER you can open your mouth.   

So we have spoken about mistress.
 
About the Kiev girl, for the moment, i have see no sign showing an issue, excuse me but "It was everything that surrounded".
For the moment i see nothing in the "everything".
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on November 20, 2019, 02:47:37 AM
Pat,

You're probably one of the few people who visit/post on this board who has dated in Ukraine over a long period of time. I've dated from pre-Maidan era up to this year.

I don't pretend to understand the culture as much as Boe, and I'd be interested to read more from her, but I'd describe Ukraine as a hollowed-out society. The looting is endemic with corruption throughout society, and has been stripped away. The sex tourism industry has also impacted the fabric of society and the attitude of women towards foreigners.

There are people of strong moral character, but to be honest they can be very hard to spot as a foreigner. Trying to find a wife... well, it's possible but why fish where the water is polluted?

If you're looking for a wife in Ukraine you'd want to meet her family, friends and associates as quickly as possible. often the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. It's not perfect but you're more likely to find a good wife from a good family... identifying that is not a simple task for a foreigner.

I'm not saying it's a terrible place to visit, or there aren't decent people (I have friends there), but most guys going there not only fail to comprehend the various dimensions, they're not even aware of them. UK James disappeared from this board but may be a classic example. He thought he was playing it cool, but ended up realising he was being played. Same with The Beard. I have nothing against these guys but they both were just ignorant of the playing field.

The nature of international dating has changed dramatically though social and political changes, smart phones/the internet, and globalisation. I'd say a lot of advice on these boards about international dating is almost irrelevant. There's sometimes good insights on relationships and dating dynamics, but the practicalities are close to useless.

Specifically to you Pat, I'm not sure you know what you want. So you're probably going to end up with nothing. And end up being played.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on November 20, 2019, 03:07:46 AM
Pat, I think any strategy revolving around the use of dating apps is going to require both time and multiple trips - but potentially more fruitful than traditional dating sites (or agencies if they still exist).

One reason for time is that from experience so many dates will be dead ends. I'd almost be ruthless in assessing a date and aborting after five minutes if there's no chemistry. No point wasting your time. Maybe not the gentleman thing to do but you're just wasting her time as well. Give her taxi money and say poka!

If you do strike chemistry, then you'll want to return in a short period of time.

You probably need to be crystal clear as to what you want from a relationship and what type of partner you are looking for. As much pre-screening as possible. If your intention is for a serious relationship then paid services are worthwhile. It's often easy to spot the pros or time wasters, but be prepared for some women to slip through and waste your time.

I still think it's a better idea to have a reason for being in the FSU, then to meet women. Not meeting women as the primary intention for travel. I'd also avoid Ukraine and travel elsewhere.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 20, 2019, 03:29:46 AM
Pat,

You're probably one of the few people who visit/post on this board who has dated in Ukraine over a long period of time. I've dated from pre-Maidan era up to this year.

I don't pretend to understand the culture as much as Boe, and I'd be interested to read more from her, but I'd describe Ukraine as a hollowed-out society. The looting is endemic with corruption throughout society, and has been stripped away. The sex tourism industry has also impacted the fabric of society and the attitude of women towards foreigners.

There are people of strong moral character, but to be honest they can be very hard to spot as a foreigner. Trying to find a wife... well, it's possible but why fish where the water is polluted?

If you're looking for a wife in Ukraine you'd want to meet her family, friends and associates as quickly as possible. often the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. It's not perfect but you're more likely to find a good wife from a good family... identifying that is not a simple task for a foreigner.

I'm not saying it's a terrible place to visit, or there aren't decent people (I have friends there), but most guys going there not only fail to comprehend the various dimensions, they're not even aware of them. UK James disappeared from this board but may be a classic example. He thought he was playing it cool, but ended up realising he was being played. Same with The Beard. I have nothing against these guys but they both were just ignorant of the playing field.

The nature of international dating has changed dramatically though social and political changes, smart phones/the internet, and globalisation. I'd say a lot of advice on these boards about international dating is almost irrelevant. There's sometimes good insights on relationships and dating dynamics, but the practicalities are close to useless.

Specifically to you Pat, I'm not sure you know what you want. So you're probably going to end up with nothing. And end up being played.
Hi rwd123
Good post. Time, time and time. Spend time there and met the family, relatives to understand the dynamics, you are absolutely right.
And yes that's a complicated task. 
 Especially for the newbies who has the head stuffed by the Order you Bride, Be the knight, Save the poor, Dick makes a fool of me and so on.
The dimension of the prostitution is prevalent especially in the biggest cities and as the corruption is twisting the country, prositution is twisting girls' mind. I am scrolling prostitutki sait because i would avoid to finish with a pro, and fortunaltely i have a very good visual memory. Normally above 38 you shouldn't have a problem. But now how to know if this woman of 43 you are dating had not been in a brothel or an independant in 2010 ? éh éh who knows? Neighbours, may be close friends, and you foreigner? NICHIVO, NOL. 

You are perfectly right there are various dimensions, economical, cultural, and also many men are not aware of women. ANd FSU women play it amazingly, because they have ten years in advance, compare to the western women when it's time to play the game, THEIR GAME.
My mistress believes (pure ukrainian from the north territory) that she is not enough skilled with me to play me because i am too smart but my wife was better (her own words).
Got a message from her 30 minutes ago.  :popcorn:
I have no problem with the country because i have been used to live in such place as an expat from my childhood.

The main comfort and the main asset i have rwd123 is i don't want to marry because i don't want to bring a wife, and i don't want to bring a wife because i don't want to marry, and i don't want to marry because i want to avoid the criminal organization that is  actually working in the western countries, especially the family court.
Therefore all is absolutely easy. Contrary to the main stream here, i focus on a daily life. DAILY. If i can have feelings, and if this woman is a nice and good person i would be happy to have a long term and faithfull relationship with her.
You are played when you sign some documents, especially in the west. If you don't, you can bail out any time.
Today my life is rich and colorfull, and i am totally free, is this nothing ?
I want to keep this. Women are bonuses. A long term relationship could be a super bonus.

Almost all guys  need a marriage because this is the only way to have a life with an FSU woman. I know i did this before. Change the parameters and you don't need to marry and therefore to become a slave in the western matrix system. And i also don't want children ... so enjoy :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 20, 2019, 03:44:41 AM
Pat, I think any strategy revolving around the use of dating apps is going to require both time and multiple trips - but potentially more fruitful than traditional dating sites (or agencies if they still exist).

One reason for time is that from experience so many dates will be dead ends. I'd almost be ruthless in assessing a date and aborting after five minutes if there's no chemistry. No point wasting your time. Maybe not the gentleman thing to do but you're just wasting her time as well. Give her taxi money and say poka!

If you do strike chemistry, then you'll want to return in a short period of time.

You probably need to be crystal clear as to what you want from a relationship and what type of partner you are looking for. As much pre-screening as possible. If your intention is for a serious relationship then paid services are worthwhile. It's often easy to spot the pros or time wasters, but be prepared for some women to slip through and waste your time.

I still think it's a better idea to have a reason for being in the FSU, then to meet women. Not meeting women as the primary intention for travel. I'd also avoid Ukraine and travel elsewhere.
I would disagree somewhat.
If you have correctly sort out your profiles previous the meeting you should have very few quick dead ends. I put under scrutiny so many profils in 10 years that i could detect any cheaters and the ones who are not clear to expose themselves i drop them from the hat.
Dropping a lady in five minutes i never did. There is always something interesting to know. I met a journalist this summer, i know that she was not going to win the physical attraction test the minute i saw her but she is very interesting lady and what she knows is damned interesting for me. I lost contact with her but typically this type of woment could help you to be introduced in the society.
I do agree that paid services through serious meeting agencies (only 10 or 20 are serious in all Ukraine maximum) is worthwhile.
And i recommand like you; to have a bullet proof reason to come in Ukraine to be under the radar of the girls. I would ever said that is a basic if you want to date or to game in Ukraine.
Why would like to avoid Ukraine and where would you prefer travelling?



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on November 20, 2019, 04:31:52 AM
I understand and appreciate your sentiment about not marrying.

I prefer Russia, the major cities in particular. I'd like to explore Siberia more. If my focus was dating then I'd head straight to Moscow. More women, more likely educated women, more English skills, and more activities to keep you entertained. The metro is great too. If you happen to want to visit a woman in another city it is inexpensive to fly to most places with a direct flight.

I like Minsk but I think Belarus will go down the toilet with sex tourism just like Ukraine (lots of Turks last time I was there). Almaty is a wonderful city but mostly ethnic Kazakh, less slavic women these days (I prefer slavic women).

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on November 20, 2019, 05:29:19 AM
RWD has a point, but most intelligent Moscow lasses will find many western cities bucolic !

*I* suggest smaller, less fished,  RU cities  with lots of interesting history - least things go tits up

I'd recommend Volgograd, Sochi ( South ) Irkutsk, Krasnoyarsk and Novosibirsk ( Siberia) ....  I've not been to other Siberian cities 

I wonder WHY guys KEEP going to Ukraine .. If it's simply a visa issue .. it's a pretty poor excuse - if one is serious

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 20, 2019, 08:27:24 AM
I had had a bielorussian girlfriend i liked very much with a spoutnik IQ but she was drinking too much.
Russia is worth considering, i would like to make some tourism there, and MSB i think that the cities you have talked about are nice to go.

One of my concern is that the countryside girls strategy is globally worth doing but i need a big city because i will be too much bored.
Like you rwd123 i like slavic too much to consider Georgia or Khazakstan, even it if's wonderful countries.  I tried to apply there for a job, Almaty.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: krimster2 on November 20, 2019, 11:26:26 AM
I was in Irkutsk at the end of summer, it was HORRIBLE there, DON'T GO THERE!!!
visibility was 300 yards at best from all the SMOKE, almost crashed into another plane at the airport!!!
then the MOSQUITOES!!! OMG!!!!  thick clouds of them!!!!
and the locals are some of weirdest freakin people I've ever run into!!!!!
don't go to Mirny either, very rough place....
but Moscva is a GREAT place, and it's freakin HUGE, with different regions, I prefer south below the 3 ring highway along the river...

winters are BRUTAL in Russia, ya ne ha choo any more damned winters in Russia!!! NYET!!!
that's why I bought a bunch of land in Costa Rica, and I'm suddividing into lots and will be building on these and selling them to my clients in Russia
and I'll own a few as well...
my hobby there is shooting monkeys with a big slingshot!
they make the FUNNIEST faces and sounds when I shoot them!!!
hahaha


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 20, 2019, 11:49:55 AM
Winters aren't that brutal, other than in the north around the sea.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on November 20, 2019, 12:18:47 PM
One of my concern is that the countryside girls strategy is globally worth doing but i need a big city because i will be too much bored.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_and_towns_in_Russia_by_population

15 cities with a population of more than one million people. How big do you need? There are essentially only 4 in Ukraine - Kyiv, Kharkiv, Odesa, and Dnipro; the latter has dipped below a million.

Lots to explore in Russia. Outside of Moscow and St Petersburg entertainment can be inexpensive. I think I bought front row seats to opening night for The Nutcracker in Novosibirsk for about 40 USD a seat. If you visit Almaty you MUST visit the mountains (Shymbulak). I've been told only low emission or electric vehicles can go in the mountains now, just be aware of that.

Winters can be brutal in cold snaps in Siberia, but normally only for a week or two of the entire winter. Otherwise just rug up and you'll be fine.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 20, 2019, 12:48:49 PM
As every one have guessed i answered to the Kiev lady.
Slowly first.
Reconnect the history, reactivate some emotions.
And decided to call her today, she just came back today.

I think that's the first time of my life that i spent 30 minutes speaking only in russian on the phone. She helps me tremendously because she speaks loudly, clearly and not so fast. I got between 80 and 90% of what she told me.   

For what i understood, she starts to disqualify the italian guy. No humor, speaks fast in english without taking care of her and what she has to say ... And i promise you i asked nothing about Italy. 

The fact is, and she totaly validates this, listen guys, that what is important is not what you say (concept/intellect) but more how she feels comfortable, how she likes to be involved in the moment, and how high the porosity between you and her (eto ne shutki). And in return you should be comfortable also because the porosity factor works both ways.
BillyB has given a useful  five points list that make the success of the relationship. One of them is the quality time. Quality time IS NOT to bring her to a five star hotel, it's inoculating her specific emotions that let her feel that she is unique (elected) and that's you are unique (she needs to make some efforts to not loose you).

So the best investment, apart reading RWD, is to learn russian.   

And as BoozeBaron was saying when you go to a date, with a terp, when they realize that after a while that you understand (some) russian, that could be priceless.
Imagine that your date calls her husband to know if the son is in the bed and you start to ask what is the name of this young boy and when he usually go to bed... (real story, but not mine)  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 20, 2019, 01:15:21 PM
Imagine that your date calls her husband to know if the son is in the bed and you start to ask what is the name of this young boy and when he usually go to bed... (real story, but not mine)

This actually happened with me.
Gal was on phone talking with some irritation.
After she hung up, I asked her what was wrong.

She said: "My stupid husband says he doesn't know how our son is doing, and they are both right there in the small apartment."

I didn't panic at all . . .  because, remember . . . I am on WMVM visits, so all my eggs are not in same basket.

Later she explains that she and husband have stopped living as husband and wife some 7 months earlier, but they can't agree on when to sell the apartment, how to split the funds, etc.  So they have not filed for divorce either.

She and son live in one room; while husband and his mother live in another room.  She had bought a second refrigerator, so they don't even share food.

I later came to understand that this is not uncommon in FSU.  In fact, because they are assigned to a specific abode and it is recorded in their Internal Passports, there are many times in which they attend proceedings, are pronounced divorced, and then go back to their common home and continue to live there until accommodations can be arranged for one of them to move.

Oftentimes sex continues . . . forced or otherwise . . . during this period.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 21, 2019, 01:48:16 AM
This actually happened with me.
Gal was on phone talking with some irritation.
After she hung up, I asked her what was wrong.

She said: "My stupid husband says he doesn't know how our son is doing, and they are both right there in the small apartment."

I didn't panic at all . . .  because, remember . . . I am on WMVM visits, so all my eggs are not in same basket.

Later she explains that she and husband have stopped living as husband and wife some 7 months earlier, but they can't agree on when to sell the apartment, how to split the funds, etc.  So they have not filed for divorce either.

She and son live in one room; while husband and his mother live in another room.  She had bought a second refrigerator, so they don't even share food.

I later came to understand that this is not uncommon in FSU.  In fact, because they are assigned to a specific abode and it is recorded in their Internal Passports, there are many times in which they attend proceedings, are pronounced divorced, and then go back to their common home and continue to live there until accommodations can be arranged for one of them to move.

Oftentimes sex continues . . . forced or otherwise . . . during this period.
Newbies one of the thing you should'nt ask in FSU is the size of the appartment. More successful you are  and bigger is your property (sounds right).   
 
I remember one date in Kharkov. I contacted her before my venue, and she answered at the end of my trip.
She spoke five languages and was preparing a MBA, she contacted me especially because my profile had outstanding text and she tought therefore that i could help her for something she has to prepare for the MBA.
So she was in my appartment and bla bla, and then she told and you know i speak this language and this language, and this language, list of the five languages. I stopped her and told her : "yes you are good in all those languages, but are you good at kissing ?". There was a blank and after she started to smile. Lets me explain you the joke, tongue in french is langue and language in english you know so it's close to tongue, as she was also mastering french, she got it.
So 40 minutes after we were kissing on the sofa and she invited me without delay to come along with her to meet a female friend who was living in the outskirts of the city.
We grab a taxi, made a stop to buy some presents; and were welcomed by her friend. And then i saw the flat. I never saw a so small flat. It looked more like a boat cabin with very small rooms, the living room was less than 9 square meters. . After the diner female friend invited me to sleep here.

I thaugt ok, but now MBA girl will sleep in the same room than me because i doubt that will sat all the night on the gas cooker, an MBA girl is aiming USA where she can meet tons of men. So if i start a real relationship with MBA girl i will be screwed up at the end. I want to be married, why i need this shit?

And then i decided to asked them to call a taxi.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 21, 2019, 02:08:26 AM
I have great time with those two ladies, with whom i keep contact. They have real humor and play the game nicely.

So to make a quick summary.
Back home now.
Meet two ladies in Kiev, kept one. She just returns form Italy to meet a man, for the moment seems to be that the story came flat.
Meet one lady in Vinnistsa, hold hand, kiss close, kept also this one.

Mistress, also from Ukraine, in ambush.

Weirdly, in my country, normally nothing happens with Tinder. It's like deadland.
But now since i am back, i have some matches, i got 4 since tuesday. And 90% of the text is in russian.
But the most surprising is that i have access too quite nice profiles to swipe (i don't say that they have
matched me), there are some real stunners.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 21, 2019, 02:30:45 PM
Newbies one of the thing you should'nt ask in FSU is the size of the appartment. More successful you are  and bigger is your property (sounds right).   
 
I remember one date in Kharkov. I contacted her before my venue, and she answered at the end of my trip.
She spoke five languages and was preparing a MBA, she contacted me especially because my profile had outstanding text and she tought therefore that i could help her for something she has to prepare for the MBA.
So she was in my appartment and bla bla, and then she told and you know i speak this language and this language, and this language, list of the five languages. I stopped her and told her : "yes you are good in all those languages, but are you good at kissing ?". There was a blank and after she started to smile. Lets me explain you the joke, tongue in french is langue and language in english you know so it's close to tongue, as she was also mastering french, she got it.
So 40 minutes after we were kissing on the sofa and she invited me without delay to come along with her to meet a female friend who was living in the outskirts of the city.
We grab a taxi, made a stop to buy some presents; and were welcomed by her friend. And then i saw the flat. I never saw a so small flat. It looked more like a boat cabin with very small rooms, the living room was less than 9 square meters. . After the diner female friend invited me to sleep here.

I thaugt ok, but now MBA girl will sleep in the same room than me because i doubt that will sat all the night on the gas cooker, an MBA girl is aiming USA where she can meet tons of men. So if i start a real relationship with MBA girl i will be screwed up at the end. I want to be married, why i need this shit?

And then i decided to asked them to call a taxi.

Yeah, I get the red alert siren in my head when a girl comes across as too ambitious, too driven. The girl I met in Minsk was like that, was an apparent high flier in the theatre world but around 30 so likely a fading star due to her age. Anyway she had enrolled at the top law school in Minsk doing similar to what we would call a correspondence course, in law. Seemed a strange combination to me but she explained that it's needed in Minsk as if your career in one industry ends up going south then you need something else. She also like meeting and making friends with people in other countries. I think she said she had met an Italian guy, etc.

I tend to find that they don't really conceal their ambition but I get the impression they are into the International Dating Scene to advance themselves through career and possibly other ways. They might not equate to the same as a Western career girl from the off but I get the impression it's a short leap to it. For me they are too much of an immigration mule risk and s trading up risk.

I'm not really too bother if a girl isn't the brains of Ukraine or Belarus, etc. I would rather have a girl committed to a relationship rather than a risky set of variables that like you say Pat can screw you over in a few years.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on November 21, 2019, 05:03:36 PM

So in fact I know what would have happened if she had been aware of my departure Sunday. 
She would have left the tramway while it stopped in front of my flat.
And she would have lost her panties just as the door would have closed.
Yes 100 % true
It happened to me in Kiev in May with my GF of Kiev of the pre-summer, the same, and she followed me in the flat, i asked nothing. And then a little massage, on the bed...  :P

After reading this, I  was reminiscing to think about my experiences with quick sex.
All occurred on first date.

1) In restaurant.  After meal, I went to bathroom.  Upon returning to table, I kissed her on neck.
She said:  You  shouldn't do that because I easily get excited, and I don't want to get excited if nothing is going to happen.
I said: Something will happen.
She had PhD in computer science, but now had her own firm making small ceramic objects for sale mostly in Western Europe and USA.

2) We were laughing constantly at restaurant because we both have great sense of humor with a lot of jokes.  Left restaurant and headed directly to my apartment without even any discussion of where we were going.  My face is somewhat oily, and sometimes oil can get into my eyes causing irritation.  So I often wipe my eye lids and surrounding area with a hot wet wash cloth.  I told the gal I was going to do that.
She said: I am going to wash also . . . but more than just my face.
This gal was a mid-level accountant with large firm; but also had excellent English, so made some money interpreting for business meetings.

3) This gal took train to come visit me in a city other than her home town.  We had engaged in increasingly sexy and erotic talk in our email exchanges.
Within about 10 minutes in my apartment she said:  I want to go to the bed with you.
She was mid level manager with large organization at the time; and now (14 years later) is senior vice president of administration with same organization.

4) This gal was chief accountant for a Western European firm's operation in a city in Ukraine.
After dinner, went to my apartment, listened to music, danced and proceeded to the act.
After she said:  I never expected to do this on a first date.

5) This gal was a Medical Doctor, but they made (at that time) zilch in FSU, so she was earning extra money giving English lessons.
She had helped with translations in the negotiations of a business deal earlier in day which had not worked out, and was really wound up over that.
Because of that, I never expected anything to happen.
Went to my apartment and she became aggressive when I gave her a short kiss.
After she said,  Thanks, you really 'saved' me after such a stressful day.
I always strive to be helpful.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 22, 2019, 01:54:42 AM
After reading this, I  was reminiscing to think about my experiences with quick sex.
All occurred on first date.

1) In restaurant.  After meal, I went to bathroom.  Upon returning to table, I kissed her on neck.
She said:  You  shouldn't do that because I easily get excited, and I don't want to get excited if nothing is going to happen.
I said: Something will happen.
She had PhD in computer science, but now had her own firm making small ceramic objects for sale mostly in Western Europe and USA.

2) We were laughing constantly at restaurant because we both have great sense of humor with a lot of jokes.  Left restaurant and headed directly to my apartment without even any discussion of where we were going.  My face is somewhat oily, and sometimes oil can get into my eyes causing irritation.  So I often wipe my eye lids and surrounding area with a hot wet wash cloth.  I told the gal I was going to do that.
She said: I am going to wash also . . . but more than just my face.
This gal was a mid-level accountant with large firm; but also had excellent English, so made some money interpreting for business meetings.

3) This gal took train to come visit me in a city other than her home town.  We had engaged in increasingly sexy and erotic talk in our email exchanges.
Within about 10 minutes in my apartment she said:  I want to go to the bed with you.
She was mid level manager with large organization at the time; and now (14 years later) is senior vice president of administration with same organization.

4) This gal was chief accountant for a Western European firm's operation in a city in Ukraine.
After dinner, went to my apartment, listened to music, danced and proceeded to the act.
After she said:  I never expected to do this on a first date.

5) This gal was a Medical Doctor, but they made (at that time) zilch in FSU, so she was earning extra money giving English lessons.
She had helped with translations in the negotiations of a business deal earlier in day which had not worked out, and was really wound up over that.
Because of that, I never expected anything to happen.
Went to my apartment and she became aggressive when I gave her a short kiss.
After she said,  Thanks, you really 'saved' me after such a stressful day.
I always strive to be helpful.
Thank you to remind us those good memories.
Many members of this forum have genuine intentions for long term relationship or marriage.But one specie very active is the sex tourist, more and more prevalent now because Ukraine is easier to travel, cheap, and so on. It's why there is so much prostitution.   

You came under the radar through business. For the others guys it's difficult to give the right frame ans especially if you are not STAMPED by a marriage agency. 
 
It's also why a lot of gamer/pua don't get a lot of results when they chase the ONS here. They don't have in fact great success even if i know that there is at least one school in Kiev who brings their "students" around Maidan. I never never saw one doing  SPU (street picked up, the most difficult thing).

If you want to approach a lady, it's probably better to do this outside Maidan area.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 24, 2019, 10:48:26 AM
So yesterday mistress was in my city.   :welcome:
But we didn't meet.

And this not the first time, this is the sixth time for the last eight months minimum.

So the fact is that she don't want to meet me in my city.

Why? because she found her way to let her husband to know, she told him, or he found out by himself (because she don't protect herself).

And now it's start to be damned interesting.

Because she STILL want to keep in touch with me 1/ and see me 2/ but in an other city, like three weeks ago.
She told me this summer : "it would be more profitable to talk more before next meeting" 
And i told her "we are going to do the exact opposite : to meet more to have more talking after".But the fact is that we haven't met again since eight months.
So what happened?

Her husband, she told me, was against buying a house and prefer to rent. But few months ago they bought a house. That's weird no?
So the guy found out the relationship few months ago and she found her way to close the deal for the house anyways, is this not superb  :clapping:
100% venusian art, how to not work (last 18 years i would be surprised if she had worked 4 or 5 maximum, basic wage), how to let your daughter in custody most of the year with grand parents, to be fucked around in every angles, and now boum she is an owner.

What a day today.

I can understand that every spouse when the marriage is goind down try to make some effort and have some guilty, so suddenly he gives "more" to make things BACK. That's human, that's normal but buying a house in such situation, that's bad for this man  :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on November 24, 2019, 10:51:43 AM
The simple fact is that she has history with this man.   Much more than she does with you.   And, rather they be good feelings or bad feelings, unless she sheds the history of her marriage, she cannot move forward into a different, healthy relationship. 

I'm sure you know that, too.   But it is an interesting topic of conversation.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 24, 2019, 10:57:35 AM

When i met her she had a crush on me and dreamed that i could abduct her (her own words).

Yes that was easy, i just needed to meet husband, tell him ok where are the belongings of madam, change the name on documents, put all in the trunk, madame in the seat and FSIO BOUDIET ARASHO.
And so she could continue her spoiled life in a house (maybe the missing item on the liste at this moment).

But after some time she told me that she understood that i was not reliable  :P
My chance  8) No i joke, she understood that i will be not the mule to play Bob the nice guy accordingly to the plan.

To give you and idea her daughter came six weeks prior the summer and she told me :I sent her back to grandparents because i cannot do nothing.Yes she usually do nothing, and because of her daughter present SHE CANNOT do nothing, see the difference?

No i gossip, she succeed to get her driving exam to get her driving licence at 38. Her achievment of the year.  :rolleyes:
So one day or another, i will tell you about women BLACK BOXES,And that will be a RWD prime news.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 24, 2019, 11:01:46 AM
The simple fact is that she has history with this man.   Much more than she does with you.   And, rather they be good feelings or bad feelings, unless she sheds the history of her marriage, she cannot move forward into a different, healthy relationship. 

I'm sure you know that, too.   But it is an interesting topic of conversation.
Absolutely correct, because of the time spent, but she doesn't want to shed, she just wanted to SWITCH with 100% guarantee of any loss.
But that 's common among women, they try to secure the next guy BEFORE leaving the previous one. So they try to setup TWO seats before exchanging one for an other.
My ex wife did the same.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 24, 2019, 11:15:40 AM
So more positive news from the dating front.
I would emphasize again on the difficulties you face when people meet internationnaly.
THe senior members here know the deal.
But many men don't know.

Even if i am quite experimented >:D i am also facing some problems in communication with especially Kiev girl because i am mainly focusing on her and now a travel is scheduled, the dates are known.

This adventure is a ladder and you have to escaladed it.So now we are debriefing some things with her from her story of Italy.Firts of all i am sure now that this guy never put a foot in Ukraine. And that's bad. Two that was the first time that she made a VO.
And the situation for girl in a VO is worse than your. Because they are like an hostage of the country and hostage of the man. More than anything if they don't speak english or any language of the country. And many women don't have the means to buy a ticket cash and to leave asap, or they would consider this as an extrem emergency situation and very reluctant to make such expense.


So for me this man made some basic mistakes of a newbie.
He tells big number of money he can make in one day, but nobody knows if he needs maybe two years to win money again. Therefore he got from her the label "very greedy" because i don't understand all but he was bringing very cheap thing of his own rather than to buy it while he was dating this lady from Kiev.
Labelled "greedy" means at least minus FIVE points on the scorecard when a FSU woman is involved.
He also detailled what he owns.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 24, 2019, 11:24:46 AM
Now the good things are she is really divorced and they have splitted for at least six months. The bad thing is that they are still working together but the worse had been done. What she told me lets me believe that her divorce is barely or mainly over.

It's of course too early to say anything more about her. There is an appetite of two of us to know each other and to keep the links. I think that sometimes she plays it hard to get or maybe i could be totally wrong  and she just lacks of confidence and needs me to pursue her to be sure that i like her.

My job, help her to escalade the ladder, show her that i know the road, explain her the cultural differences, make the time shared a QUALITY time, bring back more comfort, and show her that i could be a gemme for an international long term relationship.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 24, 2019, 11:58:34 AM
With Erika things are also going smooth and nice.
She has also a great sense of humour, we make a lot of jokes.
I tried to anchor the great time we spent toghether.
And the fact is that she said "I felt like a teenager"
THat's you reward.
Make them feel special.

So now the problem is that i don't want to escalate the ladder too quickly with her
Lets me explain, i don't want to program a meeting before my travel with Kiev lady has ended.
I want to be free totally emotionnaly, any dust on me, to approach the Kiev lady with 100% emotional availability.

Friday i was in disco, a woman from Kazakstan, a local celebrity was absolutely eating me with her eyes and liked every time i rubbed her on the dance floor.i just had to ask her phone number. But finally had no real wish to do that, and didn't want to bring her at home.
Today i was in an english speaking group. I had deep contact eyes with a brunette with blue eyes, but i think she is a little fat, it's not worth the effort.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on November 24, 2019, 12:16:56 PM
Pat, you are making the sort of excuses a newbie makes...

This Kyiv women ...You seem to regard this as a form of tactical game...yet YOU are the one being played.

Can't you see this?

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 25, 2019, 01:06:25 AM
Pat, you are making the sort of excuses a newbie makes...

This Kyiv women ...You seem to regard this as a form of tactical game...yet YOU are the one being played.

Can't you see this?
WHY?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 25, 2019, 03:47:04 AM
So finally mistress made an effort and we met tonight (but with her you have no 100% guarantee).  :P .
 She wrote me : i am in the city   
I said : we can meet   
She answered : no i am busy. 
I said : so why you contact me ? 
(this one is the cultural transformation that i got after five years of marriage with an FSU women. I call it the direct FSU logical vs the western BS i am the nice guy and follow the polite form to not bother any one)
She ansvered : to give some news (no other answer from me)
And finally sent me a message, she found out some time, to be confirmed.  8)   
 
An other example of such cultural transformation.   
I tried to call Kiev girl saturday, she was busy but wrote me several messages and fiinished by i will call you back.
After more than 24 hours no news.     
So i wrote : why you don't call me?   
She answered immediately and start to write , we can wrote each other.   
I said : Why we cannot talk on the phone ?   
She told me yes we can, i call you, are you at home? 
Yes i am at home i like to hear your voice. 
She called me and we spend almost two hours on the phone. 

This is a cutural revolution, because my minds are not built from the origin to express so direct sentences. With a european woman i think such communication will send you directly in the wall.
So i still need to kick my ass to achieve such "direct communication".
 And finally she adores it.

For a large part this FSU communication is quite better than what happens in our western society, where everything should be sweet coated, women don't think what they say and don't say what they think. Men, who are usually introverted, are more and more castrated and less ans less prone to tell who they are, what they want, provided that they know who they are, which is less and less happening.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 26, 2019, 03:54:46 AM
Today we have start to seriously planning the travel for the beginning of january.
We are together choosing the flat. Girls like to be involved in such job.And Kiev girl told me this morning that she is going to buy her plane ticket by herself  :P 
 
So things look pretty good and we are both excited.She also took the maximum time she could to be together considering her business. 
She noticed that i made a good time management so our planes arrive together and there is not so much time of difference for the departure, so we could leave the flat together.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on November 26, 2019, 04:00:22 AM
WHY?

Can't you see that you are being played, Pat ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 26, 2019, 07:16:59 AM
Can't you see that you are being played, Pat ?
.

WHY?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 26, 2019, 02:37:41 PM
So yesterday finally i met mistress.
I had to pickup her.
I was waiting in the car her to be available on the phone. After 10 minutes she told me i need 10 minutes to be ready, and we go.
30 minutes after i was still waiting (kak debil would have said ex wifey).
So i wrote a sms, i am waiting for 30 minutes now, i wait 3 minutes more and i leave.
In the minute here she was.
I was not driving less than 10 minutes that she started to cripple my skills in english. I told her that the day before an english teacher with whom i was discussing told me that my level was quite good.

So the first restaurant was too loo quality (I let her the choice between two), so we went to a third one and started to have a diner.   
 
When we arrived at my place, she looked quickly the new brand kitchen and start to tell me that she didn't like the color, green i should have done, the color of the kitchen panels were too bright, and also something in white was not at the right place.   

So this kitchen needed two months of work, good money, involved two pros, me and a friend of mine. But now we have someone who has never touch a screwdriver and has no known artistical taste who is telling me what should have been done. 

After some bedroom sport and many calls from husband, who shows a lot of nervousness that i have never seen before we start to sleep.
But due to my job i got a call, very short fortunately, in the middle of the night.
After that impossible to sleep again, she didn't let me some space in the bed, even if i gently repeated my concern several time.
So i left and moved to change of bedroom. She followed me and i calmly explained the problem and that would be better for me to be alone for the very few hours we had to sleep.
Less than hour she started to make some noise, and that for one hour.
Finally we woke up at 5:30 because i had to drop her for her train very early in the morning.

And then she started to harass me, she wanted to check my phone to check if i was writing to a girl this night  :cluebat:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 26, 2019, 02:49:46 PM
The fact is the first night we were in the bed she saw me opening a dating site on my phone.
But now?
I had to explain that the call during night was professional and showed her the call on my professional phone. But she was still me wanting showing my phone.
Fuck you, that's my phone. Typical venusian manipulation.  :rolleyes:   

So finally she was afraid to miss her train so she shut up and to show her disapproval she seated on a rear seat. I didn't care.
So you know what? I analysed that this woman is an emotional vampire.

It explains what she says : she is the male in the couple. 
And i understand why his husband stays away most of the time : anything he can do would be criticized or depreciated, even if he has surely strong feelings for her.
So she had been the sole daughter of two parents who had done everything and more they should have done. SHe had been spoiled to the bones by those parents.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 26, 2019, 02:51:39 PM
And in the day i don't remember how many sms i got from her because of opinion she wanted me to give on two differents problems.  :rolleyes:   

There is a moment, when someone is so low in the female hierarchy, that it's not even worth to f   her.   
No really, i am serious, it kills the libido.   

I had helped her to get back on track to find the way to prepare the occupation of her dream. But her chances are very low to get this job in the future. 
I also helped her on a business she has, but she performs it very poorly and my advices come flat.

Ok it's time to stop to bother you with this trainwreck
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on November 26, 2019, 03:11:10 PM
Nice to be able to see it and understand it for what it is. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on November 26, 2019, 03:22:01 PM
.

WHY?

Sorry, I THOUGHT I had replied , earlier ..

If you cannot see, then I am more than ever worried about your ability to get past the dating stage ... ;)

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 26, 2019, 03:24:36 PM
Sorry, I THOUGHT I had replied , earlier ..

If you cannot see, then I am more than ever worried about your ability to get past the dating stage ... ;)
TO SEE WHAT?

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Faux Pas on November 26, 2019, 04:00:29 PM
The fact is the first night we were in the bed she saw me opening a dating site on my phone.
But now?
I had to explain that the call during night was professional and showed her the call on my professional phone. But she was still me wanting showing my phone.
Fuck you, that's my phone. Typical venusian manipulation.  :rolleyes:   

So finally she was afraid to miss her train so she shut up and to show her disapproval she seated on a rear seat. I didn't care.
So you know what? I analysed that this woman is an emotional vampire.

It explains what she says : she is the male in the couple. 
And i understand why his husband stays away most of the time : anything he can do would be criticized or depreciated, even if he has surely strong feelings for her.
So she had been the sole daughter of two parents who had done everything and more they should have done. SHe had been spoiled to the bones by those parents.

Back in my day this woman would have been labeled a "succubus"
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on November 26, 2019, 04:01:49 PM
Yup.  Our buddy Patagonie better check in the mirror for two small teeth marks.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 26, 2019, 08:14:08 PM
TO SEE WHAT?

I believe he is saying you can't see that Kyiv woman is manipulating you.

So you know what? I analysed that this woman is an emotional vampire.

Meh.  I don't believe in such "trendy" words.  Call that, and "succubi" what they really are, at the end of the day; Stupid men thinking with their penises.

Quote
It explains what she says : she is the male in the couple. 
And i understand why his husband stays away most of the time : anything he can do would be criticized or depreciated, even if he has surely strong feelings for her.
So she had been the sole daughter of two parents who had done everything and more they should have done. SHe had been spoiled to the bones by those parents.

Or perhaps they have children, and he doesn't want a split family.  Perhaps her family gave/gives him money for his own ventures, so it's a quid pro quo. Perhaps when they are together, she gives him what he wants sexually, in a way no other woman can.  Perhaps he's a masochist.  Or perhaps it is what I suspect - that they are Soviets, and you don't know anything about former Soviets.  The bottom line is, for you, it doesn't really matter. 

What does matter is that your gauge for choosing FSUW appears to be off kilter (that's ok, it is for 4/5 WM looking abroad as well), and you better learn to judge women beyond the book cover if you are looking for a serious long term relationship.  If all you're looking for is sex, then it doesn't really matter, and you can carry on as you have been.  Just don't develop deep feelings for any woman, or expect them to be reciprocated.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on November 27, 2019, 03:28:21 AM
I believe he is saying you can't see that Kyiv woman is manipulating you.



Quite.. 'playing' .. playing with your emotions and hanging you out to dry ..

In the meantime., I perceive you regard a sexual conquest with another lady as some sort of 'therapy'?!  ..;)  If your Kyiv lady gets off on trips to nice destinations with other guys while expecting you to 'suck it up', then you are surely heading for an emotional sleigh-ride...   your choice !

Isn't marriage about committing to each other ?

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 27, 2019, 09:19:32 AM
I believe he is saying you can't see that Kyiv woman is manipulating you.

Meh.  I don't believe in such "trendy" words.  Call that, and "succubi" what they really are, at the end of the day; Stupid men thinking with their penises.

Or perhaps they have children, and he doesn't want a split family.  Perhaps her family gave/gives him money for his own ventures, so it's a quid pro quo. Perhaps when they are together, she gives him what he wants sexually, in a way no other woman can.  Perhaps he's a masochist.  Or perhaps it is what I suspect - that they are Soviets, and you don't know anything about former Soviets.  The bottom line is, for you, it doesn't really matter. 

What does matter is that your gauge for choosing FSUW appears to be off kilter (that's ok, it is for 4/5 WM looking abroad as well), and you better learn to judge women beyond the book cover if you are looking for a serious long term relationship.  If all you're looking for is sex, then it doesn't really matter, and you can carry on as you have been.  Just don't develop deep feelings for any woman, or expect them to be reciprocated.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Emotional Vampire is probably not the right term, it's more about emotionnal abuser, writing this term I want to focus more on the psychological dimension and character rather than any law enforcement purpose.

Difficult, as you said to etablish the dynamics of a relationship, and it's not my business. But you have written something interesting, it's possible that the family in law of this man helps him a lot, something i haven't yet take in consideration.

For the moment I stay on what you say (and i am gonna to say more by answering MSB, next post). Not developping strong feelings if not reciprocated. And check if those reciprocated feelings are real.





Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 27, 2019, 09:31:54 AM
Quite.. 'playing' .. playing with your emotions and hanging you out to dry ..

In the meantime., I perceive you regard a sexual conquest with another lady as some sort of 'therapy'?!  .. ;)  If your Kyiv lady gets off on trips to nice destinations with other guys while expecting you to 'suck it up', then you are surely heading for an emotional sleigh-ride...   your choice !

Isn't marriage about committing to each other ?

As the post is smooth, 
I answer you MSB. 

Sexual conquest of another lady hadn't really happened for the moment. Considering that no sexual commitment happened with Erika, and mistress things started months ago. 
I had also a regular and official french girlfriend this summer but i had no real feelings and i got bored after two months of relationship. She was a nice and smart woman. 

Having an other woman (or more) could be considered as a therapy to cure any disproportionated feeling towards a woman. In a way it can help to protect you.   

Now the risks to be honest are :
1/ she continues to date men in Kiev, and the risk is that her emotionnal commitment in the relationship (nothing has happened for the moment) vanishes and therefore the relationship collapses
2/ She has a complete plan to bail out from the country and find a mule. 
3/ An other plan we don't know 
 
The risk of 2/ seems to be very low, my profile is crystal clear and i know she read it several times about : nothing about marriage, explaining that i want to relocate at least partially in the future.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 27, 2019, 11:46:40 AM
For the moment I stay on what you say (and i am gonna to say more by answering MSB, next post). Not developping strong feelings if not reciprocated. And check if those reciprocated feelings are real.

So how do you know if reciprocated feelings are real?  I think the only way you can know is by living with someone for a prolonged period.

Just to clarify, I don't believe Kyiv woman should be discarded because she is still seeing other men.  You have no permanent commitment.  But I question the integrity, as well as the  common sense, of a woman who goes abroad to meet a man for the first time on his dime.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on November 27, 2019, 01:24:02 PM
Sometimes it is about the sex!  A relationship starts with raw sex.   Panties on the chandelier and hot and bothered.   Wet and sloppy.  Begin in the morning, proceed to the afternoon.   Lots of bodily fluids swapping back and forth.  Whereby you can't look at a woman without reaching out to touch her body parts.   And she is drawn the same way.  All day long practicing the arts of the Kama Sutra.   The emotional fulfillment that draws your essence and places it in another.   

Oh, did I get carried away here?   Perhaps the pristine discussion of how a relationship should be, deserved the explosion of animal emotions that mark the preliminary phases of relationships.   Rather than listen to a bunch of advice from people who probably haven't had an encounter like this for years (if ever) you should enjoy yourself and let things happen naturally rather than psychoanalyze  your prospective mate and detail her fine and low points.

Patagonie, get to it.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 27, 2019, 01:26:46 PM
So how do you know if reciprocated feelings are real?  I think the only way you can know is by living with someone for a prolonged period.


Just to clarify, I don't believe Kyiv woman should be discarded because she is still seeing other men.  You have no permanent commitment.  But I question the integrity, as well as the sense, of a woman who goes abroad to meet a man on his dime.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
 
Knowing that feeling are reciprocated needs time, especially in those long distance relationships that we know here in RWD. 
Is it necessary to live with? Don't think so, we speak about feelings here, not a marriage which is a bigger and more serious project. 
 
About men who are invititing women they are legion, for many reasons, and not necessary the bests. It seems this italian guy is a decent guy, in this particular case. Many would not like to travel by themselves. Therefore i  don't see why a FSU woman, knowing the wages they usually got, would assume all the risks on their own.   
 
For men, you save the time spent for the travel, you play the game at home and if something is wrong, if you are a jerk, you just shut off your phone (it happened to me in Swedish where i met a FSU lady for a VO, she turned her phone off after our meeting of one hour. Fortunately i had only 3 days to stay).   
 
And many men have some fantaisies to "import" a slavic woman and have an affair, you just can open some sites about travelling where men offers "a travel", they generally would like to get some benefits from their proposition.
It's a shallow field i don't like and i advise systematically to date FSU women in their native cities, If possible.
Now you can also face some FSU women who start to have the same constraints than western men. They have a high position or a business and their time is almost even more precious than anything.
My bielorussian in MInsk was earning 3000$ in 2010 and was under such high pressure that she would not have considered spending time in Minsk facing her office.
The Kiev girl has already travelled 3 times in Budapest WHILE she was married (no red flag here). 

Is she dating men in Kiev? WHo knows, maybe yes maybe no.
Is she is still in contact with the italian guy? maybe yes maybe no
Is this matter? As you say there is still no commitment, so no it doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on November 27, 2019, 01:29:41 PM

Sometimes it is about the sex!  A relationship starts with raw sex.   Panties on the chandelier and hot and bothered.   Wet and sloppy.  Begin in the morning, proceed to the afternoon.   Lots of bodily fluids swapping back and forth.  Whereby you can't look at a woman without reaching out to touch her body parts.   And she is drawn the same way.  All day long practicing the arts of the Kama Sutra.   The emotional fulfillment that draws your essence and places it in another.   

Oh, did I get carried away here?   Perhaps the pristine discussion of how a relationship should be, deserved the explosion of animal emotions that mark the preliminary phases of relationships.   Rather than listen to a bunch of advice from people who probably haven't had an encounter like this for years (if ever) you should enjoy yourself and let things happen naturally rather than psychoanalyze  your prospective mate and detail her fine and low points.

Patagonie, get to it.

It depends on what Patagonie wants, though, long term.  If what he wants is sex and emotion is irrelevant, then so be it.  But if he is seeking a real, intimate connection with a woman and she's already proven her character is lacking, then why waste time?

It's not how a relationship should be, as different people want different things.  It's about what Patagonie has posted he wants.


 
Knowing that feeling are reciprocated needs time, especially in those long distance relationships that we know here in RWD. 
Is it necessary to live with? Don't think so, we speak about feelings here, not a marriage which is a bigger and more serious project. 


I happen to believe you can't truly know a person without living with him/her.  How do you know the "feelings" of a person, truly, if you don't live with him/her?  People's masks, if they have one, slip only when you spend a significant amount of time with them in uncontrolled environments.
 
Quote
About men who are invititing women they are legion, for many reasons, and not necessary the bests. It seems this italian guy is a decent guy, in this particular case. Many would not like to travel by themselves. Therefore i  don't see why a FSU woman, knowing the wages they usually got, would assume all the risks on their own.   


Fair enough.  However, it still lacks common sense.
 
Quote
Now you can also face some FSU women who start to have the same constraints than western men. They have a high position or a business and their time is almost even more precious than anything.
My bielorussian in MInsk was earning 3000$ in 2010 and was under such high pressure that she would not have considered spending time in Minsk facing her office.
The Kiev girl has already travelled 3 times in Budapest WHILE she was married (no red flag here). 

The Belarussian though, at that salary, could fund her own travel.

Quote
Is she dating men in Kiev? WHo knows, maybe yes maybe no.
Is she is still in contact with the italian guy? maybe yes maybe no
Is this matter? As you say there is still no commitment, so no it doesn't really matter.


I agree, none of these things matter.  It just seems to me that such a woman is not one who will develop deep feelings for a man.  Therefore, it's up to you to decide what you want, long term, from such a relationship.  If it's sex and companionship, great.  If it's loyalty and someone who will be there if you are ill, or infirm, or broke, then it's likely not a good bet.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 27, 2019, 01:35:19 PM
Sometimes it is about the sex!  A relationship starts with raw sex.   Panties on the chandelier and hot and bothered.   Wet and sloppy.  Begin in the morning, proceed to the afternoon.   Lots of bodily fluids swapping back and forth.  Whereby you can't look at a woman without reaching out to touch her body parts.   And she is drawn the same way.  All day long practicing the arts of the Kama Sutra.   The emotional fulfillment that draws your essence and places it in another.   

Oh, did I get carried away here?   Perhaps the pristine discussion of how a relationship should be, deserved the explosion of animal emotions that mark the preliminary phases of relationships.   Rather than listen to a bunch of advice from people who probably haven't had an encounter like this for years (if ever) you should enjoy yourself and let things happen naturally rather than psychoanalyze  your prospective mate and detail her fine and low points.

Patagonie, get to it.
You are damned right! 

Is all this life needs to be controlled? 
Is every moment should be calculated, trying to know the plus and minus? 
What will be the risk(s) considering the plan, mensual plan, annual plan?

My God... 

It's what i have already wrote, i am alive, i am free, i live more on a daily basis or try to keep the steering wheel flexible.
And i have great great time with women. Sex included. 
This is the more vivid you can get in life : the level of connection you have with someone. 
 
Do you imagine that i am sick for two days.
I told this to Erika without much precision.
SHE DIDN'T SLEEP last night knowing this. And we have only kissed 10 minutes. 
 
This connection is an art. You cannot know how huge and unknow territories you still can explore there. And sex is also connection, it could be the primary canal to reach someone. 

Jone, good post, thank you to remind us the animal part of us.   
 
And i like to come here on RWD you know it's a little like doing my homework, because i am not a native speaker, but i like to do it.
And i would like to make a tour in USA later and meet every guy who are the main  senior posters here, and i would not like miss one! Don't know if it could be possible.
And why? because i want to meet those guys, because i know that even if we are far, there is somehow of friendship, and that's real, because many of us are here for years and so we have etablished some respect, and that's not shit.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 27, 2019, 02:14:22 PM
It depends on what Patagonie wants, though, long term.  If what he wants is sex and emotion is irrelevant, then so be it.  But if he is seeking a real, intimate connection with a woman and she's already proven her character is lacking, then why waste time?

It's not how a relationship should be, as different people want different things.  It's about what Patagonie has posted he wants.



I happen to believe you can't truly know a person without living with him/her.  How do you know the "feelings" of a person, truly, if you don't live with him/her?  People's masks, if they have one, slip only when you spend a significant amount of time with them in uncontrolled environments.
 

Fair enough.  However, it still lacks common sense.
 
The Belarussian though, at that salary, could fund her own travel.


I agree, none of these things matter.  It just seems to me that such a woman is not one who will develop deep feelings for a man.  Therefore, it's up to you to decide what you want, long term, from such a relationship.  If it's sex and companionship, great.  If it's loyalty and someone who will be there if you are ill, or infirm, or broke, then it's likely not a good bet.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Bielorussian did, 
She paid for her own expenses the first and i paid mine, plus the flat and restaurants.
For the second travel we shared but while on the spot i took more expenses on my onwn.   
She got a little mad during this travel when she learnt how much money i was earning
She likely believed that she was making more than me i think.   
 
For me, FSU sharing by 2 all expenses, are not common, the exception i would say. 

 
 A poll would be interesting to know what happens to the fellows here when it's time to pay the bill during travels with an FSU woman.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 27, 2019, 02:52:54 PM
Oh you know what,
Two days before, i was saving some files from an old computer and while doing this i found out two photos of my first love (of my FSU life), my second date of my FSU life.

She is a mother now of a very sweet baby.
It's all what she needed, to be a mother.
A sweet mother. Hope all is fine for her.
She lives in the nordic countries. Norvege or Swedish i think.

Guys, what would think if i was publishing some photos in Area 51?  Tell me about this idea.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on November 27, 2019, 05:03:12 PM
Pat, if the lady isn't giving their permission to post .. DO NOT do it ..



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 28, 2019, 05:24:53 AM
Pat, if the lady isn't giving their permission to post .. DO NOT do it ..
Ya caglassen s taboî.
I do agree but not for the same reason MSB.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 28, 2019, 05:33:33 AM
So lady of Kiev bought her plane ticket yesterday, by her own.  :P   

And she didn't reveal me the cost but it was significant because she was ripped off by the site. I offered my help and to do all in her behalf, but she did it alone. 
 
So i had very serious questions yesterday, and she answered about why me, previous relationships and so on.   
After that i told her, if you have any question on me, feel free to ask.   
SO this morning i wrote her :   "I know the question you are going to ask me. Your question is "am i going to kiss you more in morning or more in the evening?" I am sorry, i cannot answer, you look too dangerous.       
   
Three minutes later : 
" I love more in the evening".
And just after she bought the ticket.   

 :ROFL: :flowers:

Guys i love dating,   
I love women   
I love life   
I love especially FSU women   
Life is fun.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 28, 2019, 11:01:18 AM
Give them the more,the beat and the bass music,looking through the watergate, i close the canopy of the stealth fighterand see away some submarines coming into the bayJe me rafraîchis de toutes ses turpides et fais sécher ma chevelure sous la tôle de métal
qui fond sous le soleil de Californie,Je vois la Chrysler qui fait crisser l'asphalte et le borsalino que tu portais, ingénue mais nue sur la banquette one piece de cuir mauve revêtue.
Mais ce jour n'est plus, i will never see again ces jambes longues de fusain qui dessinaient des arabesques de volupté dans le restaurant de la longue rue
Yo was joking above my shoulder your lips close to the heart break point and i was nowhere, only a ghost in the guest house.
Je reviens de la marina, les bateaux sont adossés deux à deux, et de tes longues phalanges blanches ne me restent que la brûlure ardente de mes regrets passés, je veux remettre l'esquif à la baie.
I understand when the nigh is long, the silence is all around and you cannot guess what happens in the closest forest, is there a way to get out from the fortress?

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 29, 2019, 03:06:54 PM
So i want to make a little summary now of how things are going on. 

My top list, number 1 lady of Kiev

Tickets have been bought, the flat is booked. We met in one month 6 days because she cannot more for business reasons. 

So now the connection is INTENSE, it's about between 10 and 40 messages every day, and calls twice a week of one or two hours at least (all in russian). 

Would like to thank again all members who showed me unwavering support here when the story seemed to hit the wall, it helped me to hold my horses back. 

She looks for the moment the right sweet spot i am waiting for : a sweet, beautiful, classic and classy educated woman belonging to the at least real middle class (only few pourcent of the ukrainian people could pretend to belong to such class, and it puts them anyway on the top 15% of the ukrainian earners likely at least) living in the capital where happens basically everyday several events. A city i can reach in half a day of travel almost from my home. 
A woman who is not chasing a marriage (at first sight), nor a green card, and could have chosen an ukrainian guy instead (that what she told) because there are also nice ukrainian men.

Women number 2 from Vinnitsa (some datas are bogey) 
Totally present, every day, every hour if she is not working. Due to my level of connection with the previous woman i cannot have the same level of communication. But things are nice, i get a high interest. I could not meet her, whatever happens before april, or i need to ask her to come to France. Quite difficult to imagine as i have a travel scheduled in one month, friends who come from a foreing country in three months. Don't know how it's possible.

Golden rule of Beeeeeeeeeel : be ready to drop any lady if you have one golden, so the golden lady for the moment is the first mentioned in the post, so if lady of Kiev  confirms her status, i will probably have too manage risks differently in the future.

   
Mistress (local but not french) 
Strangely she recontacted me again. To tell me that's i hurted her ( :cluebat: she hurted herself with her own auto created shit,  :wallbash: ). Her words are full of what may cause you to feel guilty.
In Transactionnal analysis it is known as psychological games. 
So guys, it comes flat with me like the fart of a mosquito on an Abrams M1.
She lost more points on the scorecard at the end of the month. 
 
What's is sure is that i don't want to meet her again, and not ready to take a plane in her remote city.
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 30, 2019, 12:33:57 PM
Can see that my post didn't come in the right way, i rewrite it  :

Give them the most, 
the beat and the bass music,
looking through the Watergate,   
i close the canopy of the stealth fighter
and see away some submarines coming into the bay   
 
Je me rafraîchis de toutes ses turpides et fais sécher ma chevelure sous la tôle de métal
qui fond sous le soleil de Californie,   

Je vois la Chrysler qui fait crisser l'asphalte et le borsalino que tu portais, 
ingénue mais nue sur la banquette one piece de cuir mauve revêtue. 

Mais ce jour n'est plus, i will never see again ces jambes longues de fusain qui dessinaient des arabesques de volupté dans le restaurant de la longue rue
You was joking above my shoulder your lips close to the heart break point 
and i was nowhere, only a ghost in the guest house.   

Je reviens de la marina, les bateaux sont adossés deux à deux, 
et de tes longues phalanges blanches ne me restent que la brûlure ardente de mes regrets passés, 
je veux remettre l'esquif à la baie.     
     
I understand when the night is long, the silence is all around 
 and you cannot guess what happens in the closest forest, 
is there a way to get out from the fortress?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SteveInBoston on November 30, 2019, 05:14:34 PM
This reminds me of the movie Groundhog Day.

In one of the iterations of Bill's attempt at dating Andy Macdowell, she saids she studied or majored in French
poetry.  Initially Bill slip out his drink and said well that was a waste..

In the redo of the date he spouted out a french poem on the spot.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 30, 2019, 10:40:24 PM
All poems are done on the spot with very few modifications.   

We are in pure tradition of the automatic writing by André Breton, central point of the Surrealism.   

Contrary to the classical poetry, generally build on an alexandrine metric (13 feets) the surrealist prose poem has nothing to do with a subordination of the language to a rational willingness which wants the poem to be ordered.   

It is more the transposition of a true emotion coming from the unconscious where writing is only the extension of the soul. It should be noted that writing is not necessary the only transposition tool used, it had been in the past also done through drawing and more confidentialy done directly by speaking.   
I had myself done a volume of audio poetry where it had only been recorded and afertwards written down.  It represents, inherited from the trend initiated by Haroldo de Campos, one of the goal of the concrete poesy, wich is to allow new experimentations.

In my young time, part of my work had been awarded.
Unfortunately most of the readers couldn't figure out the french part of my writing, which is clearly above his english counterpart, especially by the upper dimension of his references, syntactic,  symbolic, his capacity to create associations and neologism and his modernism.

2413 posts to tell you a little more of my life ! lol
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on December 01, 2019, 01:16:56 AM
Pat,

I am not sure ( even) Beel advocates stringing along 2 other ladies whilst meeting a third. ..?

You seem to be playing a how many ladies can I keep in play for fun, game rather than I seek a LTR....that is MY  opinion and it will not end well.((

There is no harm in enjoying dating, but you seem to be addicted? )

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 01, 2019, 05:01:22 AM
So now the real game starts to take off with the lady of Kiev.
She is classy and she is classic.
So it needed some time to warm up. 
 
But now that starts to be fun. 
It starts to be sexual (it's not speaking about sex), it's about to play around.
Men generally want to fill a hole ASAP while women like the approach, the game, the pre game, foreplay sex, sex, and enjoy every moment after.

So technicaly it comes like this (some exchanges had been shortened): 
I showed her a photo of my robot at home that i named "my mistress"
Lady : This not a lover, this is a faithful slave
Me : it's the life of a robot
Lady : Yes it's a robot, but not a lover
Me:  lover makes more noise normally, especially at night
Lady : not always
Me : you don't ? Or you speak about men? Interesting
Lady : about men of course
Me : reaaaaaaalllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyy? Oh you seem to have a lot of experience
Lady : your experience will outweigh mine.
Later 
Me : i appreciate our communication.
Lady : i like it too
Me : I just hope that you are not too slent during night
Lady : i have to be loud, I will, I have to be quiet i will
Me  ;) :D
Later 
Me : (Name of the lady) you know me, there will be some control about what you have said, of course.
Lady :  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 01, 2019, 05:13:30 AM
Pat,

I am not sure ( even) Beel advocates stringing along 2 other ladies whilst meeting a third. ..?

You seem to be playing a how many ladies can I keep in play for fun, game rather than I seek a LTR....that is MY  opinion and it will not end well.((

There is no harm in enjoying dating, but you seem to be addicted? )
 
 
Bill will come to correct his own version i am sure.   
Now, it's not time to be a fool. What i have, in REAL life, a mistress who shows more and more that she is a pain in the ass. 
Technicaly i have no relationship, what's about the sexual compatibility? All members here know that sometime it doesn't work even if you can lower your expectations, because most of us are not in their twenties.   

The second thing important to say is that when you are having such pool and having those intensity with women you are sitted on a wave that makes you attractive for any other women (not all, because you cannot be liked by all women, that's not true). 
I was in a dancing place eight days ago and i could feel the energy i could display and how it was attracting women on the dance floor. One i could rub her and touch her and the other one was laughing, sending sparks with her eyes and finally touching my torso with her hand while i was facing her one meter away (she had to make a move to come in contact) 
 
I have, for the moment, no LTR, technicaly.
Game is part of a relationship, love IS about playing like children, transposed to an adult life it's a little more sophisticated of course.
It's why so many women are bored, between the men who want to bring them directly in the sack and the ones who arrives with the marriage proposal and the 36 roses bouquet. They have a feeling of emptiness. I understand them.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on December 01, 2019, 10:32:50 AM

Me : I just hope that you are not too silent during night
Lady : If I have to be loud, I will; if I have to be quiet, I will


Interestingly, not many of the FSU women I have been in bed with have been loud; most have been extremely quiet.

I attribute this to the fact that most of them lived with previous husband/boyfriend in small space shared by 3 or so generations.

One gal however, looked into bedroom which (for some unknown reason) had a large window far up above the bed that looked out into the common stairwell and commented, "oh my, I make a lot of noise during sex."  And she did anyway.

Another time when I was in Turkey with a Ukrainian woman, there was another woman in next apartment who made a lot of loud moaning noise.  I first thought she was in real trouble from sickness or some such.  But the Ukrainian woman said:  "It is just a Russian cow having sex."
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 01, 2019, 10:44:58 AM
Interestingly, I not many of the FSU women I have been in bed with have been loud; most have been extremely quiet.

I attribute this to the fact that most of them lived with previous husband/boyfriend in small space shared by 3 or so generations.

One gal however, looked into bedroom which (for some unknown reason) had a large window far up above the bed that looked out into the common stairwell and commented, "oh my, I make a lot of noise during sex."  And she did anyway.

Another time when I was in Turkey with a Ukrainian woman, there was another woman in next apartment who made a lot of loud moaning noise.  I first thought she was in real trouble from sickness or some such.  But the Ukrainian woman said:  "It is just a Russian cow having sex."
You have made my day :
"It is just a Russian cow having sex."
 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: JayH on December 01, 2019, 10:46:45 AM


Another time when I was in Turkey with a Ukrainian woman, there was another woman in next apartment who made a lot of loud moaning noise.  I first thought she was in real trouble from sickness or some such.  But the Ukrainian woman said:  "It is just a Russian cow having sex."

 :ROFL:

Interestingly, I not many of the FSU women I have been in bed with have been loud; most have been extremely quiet.

I attribute this to the fact that most of them lived with previous husband/boyfriend in small space shared by 3 or so generations.



Funny you mention this-- only a few hours ago we were discussing the   same topic !
My thoughts have a been much the same as yours -- and about when and where etc !!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on December 01, 2019, 11:03:37 AM
Interestingly, not many of the FSU women I have been in bed with have been loud; most have been extremely quiet.

I attribute this to the fact that most of them lived with previous husband/boyfriend in small space shared by 3 or so generations.


Just remembered what one FSU gal told me.  She and husband did live in 2 room apartment with their two children, his parents, and one grandfather.

A few times she and husband went out into hallway, where she leaned over a radiator (they call it a battery), and he inserted from back to perform the act.

They weren't too worried about anyone coming into hallway, or maybe didn't care.

Another gal told me that she and husband tried to have sex in their car parked in front of their building, but the motion of car moving caused a crowd to appear and look in windows.

Privacy was (and still is) a large issue for them.  Surprising that any children are conceived at all.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 01, 2019, 02:24:57 PM
So ML is fine connoisseur of the real FSU nights.
And he is true. Many women are living with their relatives, at least one.
And still today, i would say minimum 50%And that was even more the case before, before the fall of the iron curtain.Some appartments were even sharing toilets, kitchen and "bathrooms".

So the FSU sexual life adapted accordingly.
WOmen trained themselves to minimize the db level, men trained them to not splash their load minimizing the soviet effort, the Rodina got of course the main benefit of so small intercourses...   
 
And now all your job guys is to tell to those women, look those incredible windows. Do you hear something from the outside? No, so it's the same in the opposite way.
Look, the next neighbour is ... 100 meters away no?
So baby, the narrowness of your previous life has gone.
We can now enjoy all the range of your voice, especially at night, because every nigth i will be there, contrary to the day because i have to be at the office...  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 02, 2019, 02:44:06 AM
So mistress yesterday contacted me again  :popcorn:

She starts to understand that she maybee had a little screw up the relationship.

She wants me to come in her second city. She lives during the week in a second city, and an other city saturday sunday >:D

I said i don't know.  8)

SHe also want to invite me to the restaurant.  :P

And now she is speaking to come back to my city in 48 hours  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on December 02, 2019, 06:22:53 AM
??

We wait for the neighbours  washing machine to go on a spin cycle

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 02, 2019, 08:54:28 AM
??

We wait for the neighbours  washing machine to go on a spin cycle
LOL
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 04, 2019, 03:06:36 AM
We have spent a lot of time with Kiev lady on the phone last week.
But now our communication skills start to hurt us.
I am working my russian, but it's not ten, twenty of fifty hours of work that will make a huge difference. 
On her side she tries to make some efforts in english, but her english is almost non existent.
And she likes to talk rather than to write on a keyboard. I also prefer to talk.
 
She was sick and had some problems in this department and hides it to me.
I told her that if something bad happens to her i would like to know.
 
Everything is fine, we have one month to wait, it's a long time somehow, but it will come very soon.
In fact we are very excited to meet together and the comfort beteen us has improved tenfold.
She starts to "open" more and more. I see nothing wrong and see only normal reactions.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 04, 2019, 09:45:35 AM
With ex wifey, 
We started to communicate in english. She learnt english on the spot, through the translator, mainly through our daily fdating messaging.
The english speakers would not notice anything wrong with this start.

But her country to live was France, not USA. So i think today that i should have started in french from the scratch.   
 

Nowadays things are different. I am in the position to learn the russian language. Kiev lady is not stupid and understand that it's a clear asset to learn some english when it's time to travel. And she has traveled somehow.   
 
 
I want to stick on russian and get a level, intermediate plus will be nice. Somehting like current conversation not too much elaborated. A full B1 level would be a sucess. But now i am far from this level. 
The difference between my dating in 2009/2010/2011 and now is huge.
Today i can date non english or french speakers among FSU women.
And even among the ones who live in outside FSU (USA, Europe) you get some traction.
They feel safer with a guy who has some understanding and habit of their culture and their language. 
   
 
This investment is totaly worth of. And i don't speak about business bonus. 
 
No really, for every guy who has a strategy, and a long term strategy learning russian is totally worth of.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 04, 2019, 03:13:21 PM
So yesterday after our daily heavy exchange of messages with lady of Kiev i received a message from Badoo that is enough gentle to tell you each time your favorite profiles are changing something on their bio or photos, in this case she added two photos.

It makes me laugh, because she was stupidly caught.
So i wrote her on spot : Badoo just sent a message saying that you have added two photos on your profile, why you need to update your photos, i don't understand

I can thank my ex wifey, five years with a FSU women educates yourself to stop to beat around the bush. This is at least one thing i learnt from her, it cleaned the wishy washy side that i had (maybe it's not totally cleaned, but a lot  has gone). And she gets incredible results in France with such demeanor.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 05, 2019, 01:37:30 AM
The most interesting is not what has happened but what happens after and how the actors of the scene plays afterwards. 
 
Her answers were :   
I deleted some photos
I can delete this site.   
 
Pat : Not exactly, you added two photos and you removed two just now.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 05, 2019, 01:59:48 AM
This night i had a dream, a stupid dream, i was angry, shouting an a like restaurant and i was even broking something brockery on a table.
 
So when i wake up this morning i understood that i was quite angry. And that's normal.
So i taught to active plan B. 
Let her know that i have X days of vacations that i have imperatively to take in the first begininning of january because there are 2019 leftovers. Let her know (waiting two days) that i have some coupons on booking for example that allows me to choose a european city with a big discount.
And finally after more additional day, that of course i will pay her ticket and every transport expenses (plan B is making little money and additionnaly as she is freelance she don't get any money when she don't work).
 
So you understand : switch lady of Kiev with plan B, could only work if plan B is free to go.
Additionnaly, and that's the revenge stage, lets lady of kiev comes to the city for the planified trip.
Activate an other bogey profile on Badoo to contact lady of Kiev in 10 days and this profile would have told her, the first day of her vacations, that in fact Pat has changing his plan and switched of lady. 
 
That the type of thinking you can have when you are angry and you know that you are enough skilled to do it. By the way this is exactly the type of thing that women can do, on the name of the mutual feminin aid and this holy sense that put them to gather their forces to punish men for their bad behaviour. Example, the mistress and the married woman finally agree to meet together the cheating husband and making him a fool, something that is not likely to happen with men.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 05, 2019, 02:15:48 AM
That was what i had in head this morning, but fortunately we are adults, with have some brains,  experience, temper control.  :popcorn: 
And too reactionnal is also hurting our interests on term.

As i wrote two posts above, the most interesting of the story is the afterwards.
 
She wrote me early this morning, which is unusual :
Message 1 / I am no longer on Badoo. 
Message 2/ Are you investigating 
Message 3/ I hide the profile that you understand that it makes no difference to me and I don't communicate with anyone. It's like a game, try to replace the photo,how it ill look, and then delete it. Message 4/ don't be mad at me, i beg you
 
Are we engaged? No 
Am a priest myself? No   
Am i still on sites? Yes   
Am i active on sites? Yes and no.   
She has a point, on Badoo i do anything, Badoo when you are not in Ukraine is dead,On Tinder i continue to open it, swipe some profiles, she is right it's like a game. It's like opening youtube. It's even easier than opening a video, you have somehow to search the video.   
     
On dating sites like Tinder you don't even have to search, you just open, look and move with the finger.   
The truth is that those dating applications are like a game video, and many people are addicted to internet and everything around.     
 
Who are so addicted that we open ours smartphones, 10, 50, 100, 500 times per day. And now it's a fact that we spend more time on this than any other things.So everytime something pops up on the screen you rush to open it. And those applications work exactly like this, they continuously show you that their status has changed and something new is in the box.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 05, 2019, 03:40:21 AM
So here is a little 7 in the look department, married to a german guy and making really nice and interesting videos. Not only about Germany but also other places. And she is interested in many things, like her husband who has some grasp in russian. The fact is that this guy seems to understand enough russian.
So if you want to improve your russian enjoy.
 

Odessa :   
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj8a-6FEKhA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj8a-6FEKhA)
 

   


   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 05, 2019, 03:44:41 AM
Still Odessa :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoSe48CW2_Y
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 05, 2019, 03:45:44 AM
Germany, about the old fence separating eastern and western Germany in 1989
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deGZk1SyiSM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deGZk1SyiSM)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 05, 2019, 05:47:46 AM
This one is hilarious :
A russian goodness in a german professional event : 

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDc6G4tFjas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDc6G4tFjas)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 05, 2019, 06:38:56 AM
Received a message from Kiev lady, maybe a photo three hours ago.
But still didn't open it.
For the moment silent treatment applied.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 05, 2019, 06:53:58 AM
A nice (8 looking woman from the video) psychologue,
talking about what to expect on sites about men as a woman. 
 
Good russian, she speaks a little fast after the first quarter of the video.     
 

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j19AySxoTiY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j19AySxoTiY)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Faux Pas on December 05, 2019, 07:59:07 AM
Pat I'm a bit surprised at your reaction to the lady adding photos on her profile. Frankly it show's your insecurity and your need to control, perhaps a degree of immaturity, no? Are you afraid she'll find a better man in the interim before you see her again? Or is it the fact she is still fishing in the waters with you? There's an old saying "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" certainly applies here.

That said, if she is following your lead as in still active and entertaining new on comers then I would think neither of you are serious about each other and she just as immature as you. Maybe you are made for each other in that regard lol. I recognize my experience seeking ladies online is out dated by a decade so keep that in mind. But at the end of the day the chase is still the same, "boy meets girl" and the internet doesn't give either of you a pass in playing the field in that regard.

I don't know how deep your conversations have been or developed, promises spoken or not spoken. You've appear pretty taken with this lady and unless you're looking to a plural marriage with multiple wives, do you not think maybe you should pursue this one with vigor and see how it goes? IMHO she should do the same. If your relationship is at the stage from your description, you should be focusing on each other.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 05, 2019, 02:20:33 PM
Pat I'm a bit surprised at your reaction to the lady adding photos on her profile. Frankly it show's your insecurity and your need to control, perhaps a degree of immaturity, no? Are you afraid she'll find a better man in the interim before you see her again? Or is it the fact she is still fishing in the waters with you? There's an old saying "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" certainly applies here.

That said, if she is following your lead as in still active and entertaining new on comers then I would think neither of you are serious about each other and she just as immature as you. Maybe you are made for each other in that regard lol. I recognize my experience seeking ladies online is out dated by a decade so keep that in mind. But at the end of the day the chase is still the same, "boy meets girl" and the internet doesn't give either of you a pass in playing the field in that regard.

I don't know how deep your conversations have been or developed, promises spoken or not spoken. You've appear pretty taken with this lady and unless you're looking to a plural marriage with multiple wives, do you not think maybe you should pursue this one with vigor and see how it goes? IMHO she should do the same. If your relationship is at the stage from your description, you should be focusing on each other.

 
Hi FP 
After the Italy vacations where she went to spend there six days to meet a man i am a little on the edge.           
 So i had been a gentleman, letting her to go with no drama, no real pressure (offering to help her to reimburse the guy in case she decided to not go).       
So yes i am a little sensitive still then. So yes i don't feel totally secure about her even if finally this story of internet is now to be forgotten.     
 
     
YOu are right the  old saying "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" applies also to me, this is exactly what i meant when writing in a previous post :   
Are we engaged? No   
Am a priest myself? No   
Am i still on sites? Yes   
Am i active on sites? Yes and no.   
 
So may i reproach her something that myself i am doing ? Moralists will of course could put me a dent here.   

 
So i repeat again what the owner of elena Models had wrote long time ago.
There is a time to focus on a person, emotionaly and only one. If you are always on the chase, you have maybe the  syndrom of the guys in a candystore.But the difficulty of relationships is that the woman you meet have to do this on the SAME tempo, especially in long distance relationships, which are multiplying the problems tenfold (cultural differences, language differences ...).   
 
And i don't think that is a question of immaturity when someone is NOT exactly in the tempo. People are expecting different  life cycles accordingly to their personal history. For example i don't consider anything about marriage however i am ready to enter in a long term relationship. Maybe she is a little late on me and needs more time, who knows. She is not a party woman, she had long relationships for what she let me know.
And FP all of of this has nothing to do with thee fact that you are out of dating since 10 years, don't think so.   
 
And i completely agree with what you say here : 
"I don't know how deep your conversations have been or developed, promises spoken or not spoken. You've appear pretty taken with this lady and unless you're looking to a plural marriage with multiple wives, do you not think maybe you should pursue this one with vigor and see how it goes? IMHO she should do the same. If your relationship is at the stage from your description, you should be focusing on each other." 

We should focus on each other YES, and that what i was doing when this incident occured.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 05, 2019, 02:23:29 PM
I wouldn't give the last woman an 8, 7 max for me. Time looks like it's starting to take its toll and that may even reduce her to a 6 if we are taking that into account.

The girl at the top is quite pretty, lovely pair of boobs and still has youth on her side. Yes! At least a good solid 7, possibly verging on an 8 for me. Bodywise an easy 8-9 at least I would say ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 05, 2019, 02:23:56 PM
Trench,
there are of course no absolute truth about scale in beauty.
It's also quite personal. But a score should be all time linked to the age. And when i give a numeral it's about the lady in global. 
In this departement the youngest don't have a perfect face and skin, she also all time about to be fat, and this endanger her the most. I also listened three of four of her videos and she perfectly knows she is not a 8 in FSU, in Germany maybe yes.
The oldest lady, i specified that i only looked the video, but if you put her with a lot of women of her age, she would perform well i am sure.

PS : all those scores apply in FSU, NOT in Europe or USA.
So you can downgrade all your of 0.5 point. Because if you put this brunette in Ukraine she becomes almost ordinary Trench, are you conscious of this?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on December 05, 2019, 02:54:04 PM
Damn, Patagonie,

I thought you were a priest.  Here I was, already to confess.......
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 05, 2019, 03:22:51 PM
Damn, Patagonie,

I thought you were a priest.  Here I was, already to confess.......
:ROFL:
I know that you have a lot to confess Jone...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 06, 2019, 04:34:46 AM
I finally found one. 
A coach of seduction in FSU, in Ukraine and very likely in Kiev
So you can find his phone on the page.   

So what the video is about?   
Very funny, it's about a french (not me lol) fluent in russian having a date with a psychologue. He had achieved a complete course and, accordingly with the coach, is performing amazingly.
And so during the date he asks her about piickupers (people who perform a pickup).
 
So she explains him how it works (she is wrong, she talks about only about NLP) and says that she knows how to recognize pickupers and they are easily detectable (she is just having a lunch with a pickuper lol), the usual BS about what people prentends to know about gamers, especially women.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJWP36_Fzlk




Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 06, 2019, 07:56:50 AM
So we have relinked our communicaton with Kiev girl.

Pat wrote :
In a serious relationship, and especially in an international relationships, and those  talkings and bumps are quite normal. I appreciate how you are capable to "open" and express your feelings. In my opinion all we are doing now is healthy for a couple.

She answered :  :thumbsup: Easier to understand each other than to accumulate bitterness.

I also have hidden my profile on badoo.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 06, 2019, 08:08:22 AM
You know we had three meetings for more than 10 hours of presence with this woman and we like each other very much. 
Of course we didn't just look each other in the eyes. We flirted but not even kissed. 

It's not a problem. I like it like it is.   
 
But now you want, for the next meeting, you want everything explode and everything to be hot and having the hottest night of the year when you meet.   
 
So all your job, as a man, is to make the future as sexual. The future is about to be sexual and every day the temperature is raising while the day of the meeting is coming closer.   
 
So every thing becomes more and more comfortable, everything is an evidence, that's the function, the soul of why men and women are born on this planet. And you are both gonna to accomplish it.

THAT'S YOUR MISSION BOTH OF YOU  :popcorn: :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 06, 2019, 08:18:59 AM
So this classic and classy woman, i tried to raise her temperature. 
And today i got it, totally. 
 
I SO DAMNED LIKED IT. When they play the game, including on the sexual canal with you, that's so damned good. I LOVE THEM. And this is not about only the sexual canal, it's largely that you are building your personal story, that's you are building your own house, your complicity, your intimacy starts here.   
 
   
So what i wrote ?   
You know dear lady of Kiev, (after 24 hours of turmoil and having restart a nice communication) we have something more difficult to success. The main question now is to know if you are kissing well, kissing is very important for french guys. Of course i will help you the first days of the course, i can offer you a training with discount price due to the winter season, are you interested? 
   
Her answer
Believe me, i'll teach you more about this
I will rate your level  :)   
 
 

The volcano starts to make some sounds, i so damned like it  :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on December 06, 2019, 08:54:07 AM
I wouldn't give the last woman an 8, 7 max for me. Time looks like it's starting to take its toll and that may even reduce her to a 6 if we are taking that into account.



I've dated a lot of older women who were 7s. Their personality or character may be a 10. But if you don't date them, you will never know if they're the ideal woman for you. What you want and what you need may be two different things.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 06, 2019, 10:00:20 AM
So we have discussed about how things are moving in Ukraine about the dating process.
I myself gave some hints here on RWD.  Remember i started to date in FSU in 2009.
Of course having been married five years, made me out of the dating market of course (yes i was totally faithfull to my ex wife) but i am here.
 
 
I found on an other site a guy nammed superschalk (http://www.rooshvforum.com/user-31481.html)
Is he russian maybe yes or no but what he has to say is interesting : vot (here it is :) )

I started going to Ukraine 7 years ago, long before Tinder and when literally no girl had a smartphone there, but at best was checking her Mamba or VK messages on her laptop or more often in an internet cafe. Went back to Ukraine regularly ever since, with 11 trips in 7 years and the 12th trip already planned. Saw lots of parts and cities of the country from Odesa to Chernivtsi, from Lviv to Chernigiv, with Kiev being my main focus on most trips. Had a short-term relationship with a 19yo Ukrainian as well as several harem girls/FWBs, some of which I fucked regularly over the course of several years (my Ukrainian notch count is at 6). Met all the girls I fucked, and many other ones which I went on dates with but didn't fuck, through online game - mainly Mamba and VK which were both already available and heavily used as far back as 2010. 
 
 So, there definitely are big changes happening to this country and especially to the way in which Ukrainian girls react to foreigners. 5 to 7 years ago, you had no problem getting the attention of girls online, starting conversations with them that actually kept going and actually meeting them for dates.
 
 What I notice now in preparation for my 2017 trip, and already noticed last year, is a significant drop in reply rates from girls, the rate being as much as 90% lower than 5 to 7 years ago. Take it from a guy who browsed profiles by the hundreds and thousands on Mamba and VK during the past years, every year, before every trip and in between. Neither my technique nor my online games tactics changed.
 But it's the girls behaviour and mindset that changed because of the tens of thousands of thirsty foreigners spamming them on the online sites.
 
 7 years ago, if you wrote to a Ukrainian girl that you'd be visiting her city (be it Kiev or some remote industrial shithole), she'd give you all her attention and her number and was in fact waiting to meet you personally. 
 In 2017, you're just the 100th foreigner of the week, the 400th of the month, the 4800th of the past year, spamming her account, sweet-talking her, telling her that you'd soon be in her city and then actually never showing up. They just can't separate the real traveler anymore from the wannabe travelers and time-wasters. If you write to them in Russian with imperfect grammar, 7 years ago they were pleasantly surprised and reacted positively. Nowadays, they all ask you if you use a so-so-working online translator for your messages. 
 
 It's really a mess. These girls don't answer at all or turn cold and/or ghost soon after, especially when you make any indirect hints as to sexuality after some time of writing, which is seen as some kind of offense now because they think you're just coming in to fuck them (which you most likely are, of course. But now they're bitching about it instead of simply meeting you to fuck them). Bitch shields are building up there big time.
 
 What else? The EU parliament now has cleared the way for visa-free travel for all Ukrainians for up to 90 days to European Union (exept UK and Ireland) and some other European states such as Norway and Switzerland starting as early as next month. Which means that the Ukrainian girls that actually want to go West, don't need a foreigner anymore for a piggyback ride/visa shit. They just get their ass on a cheap long-distance bus and go. And those who want to find a "rich" or upper middle class foreigner for upscaling their lifestyle and permanently moving to the west, can soon come here and choose for themselves from the top guys, who simply don't go to Ukraine because they pull enough pussy on their hometurf. Instead of dealing with the usually not-so-top-guys who come to Ukraine for fucking, who mostly have a reason for it (for example not pulling on their hometurf, such as in my case - which the Ukrainian girls of course smell and know).
 
 Big changes happening right now, visa-free travel to EU might fuck up the dating market in Ukraine slowly, but steadily. 
 
 Also, in the past years, I notice a certain bitchiness (someone else here used the term "histrionic", which also fits very well) in Ukrainian girls that I'm just not willing to put up with anymore. It's not that they are sweet or kind or nourishing in any way, they just expect you to be the most perfect gentleman ever and won't forgive even small mistakes in behaviour, style or frame and want to be entertained all the time, being mostly bland, boring and cold themselves. They feel more and more like empty, cold, but beautiful storefront window dolls to me. I don't get any joy out of dating them anymore, let alone slowly and steadily working my way to their pussy by listening to their boring, wannabe-intellectual shit. At least American or German girls don't pretend to be sooooo sophisticated and widely read in classical literature when they're just waiving around worthless university diplomas not recognized in any Western country because almost every girl (except the store cashiers) has them in Ukraine at age 22. 
   
 So, while some of you might put me in the negativity tab after this post as well, I would slowly designate Ukraine as a former pussy paradise lost. That being said, you still can get laid there, and definitely much easier than you'd be used to in your Western homecountry. Just there's no guarantee that you enjoy the process of working towards it, because it's a lot more difficult, time- and energy-consuming than it used to be, and than it would be in the Philippines for example. Maybe the juice is just not worth the squeeze anymore.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on December 06, 2019, 10:21:21 AM

So we have relinked our communicaton with Kiev girl.

You know we had three meetings for more than 10 hours of presence with this woman and we like each other very much. 

Of course we didn't just look each other in the eyes. We flirted but not even kissed. 

It's not a problem. I like it like it is.   
 

Pat, your English has regressed somewhat since you started more study of Russian.

In particular, you have often misused the word 'we.'

When you wrote "So we have relinked our communicaton with Kyiv girl," . . . this means that you and another person have relinked your communication with her.  So who is this third person ?

Correct:  I relinked my communication with Kyiv girl.

When you wrote: "You know we had three meetings for more than 10 hours of presence with this woman," . . . this again implies that you and someone else met at the same time with this woman.

Correct:  You know I had three meetings for more than 10 hours with this woman.

When you wrote: " . . . and we like each other very much," this  is correct.

This misuse of 'we' instead of the correct 'I" is common with Ukrainian and Russian speakers.

I often heard women tell me something like:  "We met with my daughter for lunch today."
When I asked who the third (or more) party was, they would reply . . . It was only me and my daughter.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Faux Pas on December 06, 2019, 10:30:08 AM

 
Hi FP 
After the Italy vacations where she went to spend there six days to meet a man i am a little on the edge.           
 So i had been a gentleman, letting her to go with no drama, no real pressure (offering to help her to reimburse the guy in case she decided to not go).       
So yes i am a little sensitive still then. So yes i don't feel totally secure about her even if finally this story of internet is now to be forgotten.     
 
     
YOu are right the  old saying "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" applies also to me, this is exactly what i meant when writing in a previous post :   
Are we engaged? No   
Am a priest myself? No   
Am i still on sites? Yes   
Am i active on sites? Yes and no.   
 
So may i reproach her something that myself i am doing ? Moralists will of course could put me a dent here.   

 
So i repeat again what the owner of elena Models had wrote long time ago.
There is a time to focus on a person, emotionaly and only one. If you are always on the chase, you have maybe the  syndrom of the guys in a candystore.But the difficulty of relationships is that the woman you meet have to do this on the SAME tempo, especially in long distance relationships, which are multiplying the problems tenfold (cultural differences, language differences ...).   
 
And i don't think that is a question of immaturity when someone is NOT exactly in the tempo. People are expecting different  life cycles accordingly to their personal history. For example i don't consider anything about marriage however i am ready to enter in a long term relationship. Maybe she is a little late on me and needs more time, who knows. She is not a party woman, she had long relationships for what she let me know.
And FP all of of this has nothing to do with thee fact that you are out of dating since 10 years, don't think so.   
 
And i completely agree with what you say here : 
"I don't know how deep your conversations have been or developed, promises spoken or not spoken. You've appear pretty taken with this lady and unless you're looking to a plural marriage with multiple wives, do you not think maybe you should pursue this one with vigor and see how it goes? IMHO she should do the same. If your relationship is at the stage from your description, you should be focusing on each other." 

We should focus on each other YES, and that what i was doing when this incident occured.

I wasn't being critical Pat. Not that you responded as if I were. I only wanted to point out the hypocrisy of your negative feelings about her changing those photos. From your postings here and from your description of her, it appears you two are really into each other. It would be a shame if possible future relationship went tits up over a miscommunication about the site that you two met on. So much can be misinterpreted through watching (evesdropping) of online activity. IMHO both of you should pause activity on all dating sites until you explore more about each other. But, this shouldn't "need" to be spoken. It would seem to me that you both should want to. I agree with the statement from Elena's models. There's another saying "the grass is always greener on the other side of the hill" LOL. In relationships that's rarely ever the case. Good luck with her whatever the case
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 06, 2019, 03:33:21 PM
Polaris 3 
 
it would be a dance   
I believe in you 
It will be so nice
to got to know you
It would be only a trance 
I will be the vibe   
You would the wannabe   
Je m'étends sur l'herbe fraîche qui coure à terre     
Et de ces geysers je ne suis pris qu'à revers   
Mais à la bataille je suis toujours le plus rapide 
Et je danse, de vaines mondaines en menuets paltoquets
You provide me an incoming appel
et it makes no sense
To seat in your tunnel, le corridor, ouvert, qui accède à la salle secrète
Où j'ai vu battre ton coeur   
Tandis que Chick Corea va puiser de l'eau fraîche dans la porte de ta demeure     
La lune te regarde on my mind   
Le vent s'est levé dans le drap du désert retourné se pressent les serpents charmeurs   
Ceux là même qui descendaient de la Fond Curé lorsque les intrigues n'étaient pas descellées   
Je suis un enfant au fond du puits et tu joues avec mon hochet 
Je ne puis te le donner   
Et je presse tes lèvres au précipice du baiser   
You turn around the dance and the dance is around the lover 
I squeeze out the Polaris 3 to get out the biosphere   
L'iris était dans la pulpe du fruit et je goûtais goutte à goutte, le sirop ivre de l'été.   
Je suis à terre, étourdi de ton rire léger.   
Je veux dormir dans la Camaro de cuir beige   
Et ouvrir le livre vert ou les vers de St John Perse ne m'ont jamais autant rendu aussi heureux que ce jour premier,
Je déchire le firmament et je pleure doucement à l'épicentre de l'enveloppe qui cèle tous mes secrets   
Des larmes de mica sous mes joues spartiates, jouent à cache à cache à chaque siège,
 je veux que l'on me donne mon armure sous le trébuchet Je t'enverrai des pétales de crystal de l'autre côté du coeur sacré. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on December 06, 2019, 10:56:55 PM
Pat

Sl.worried that your quoting the words of a sex tourist  might be your way of trying to demonstrate sort of 'point' ... ? ;D

He's clearly after v.young women for one thing and he's Russian..
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 07, 2019, 04:22:56 AM
Pat

Sl.worried that your quoting the words of a sex tourist  might be your way of trying to demonstrate sort of 'point' ... ? ;D

He's clearly after v.young women for one thing and he's Russian..

 
MSB not sure to have understood your post and question, I suppose you speak about the post I edited from Superschalk. I published it to focus about what is changing in Ukraine in dating due to the rampant internet and how it is changing girls' mindset. 

Also, since Europe has opened their borders (the ukrainian aviation trafic is booming since) it makes things easy to the girls to meet westerners. And i will be not surprised that more marriages will occur then, with europeans men. 
 
The sexual dimension of the post is no interest for me.
But for all the guys who want to marry this post and the recent experience i have had on the field just show that the dating scene in Ukraine starts to be twisted in a way.  And so it could be barely the end of the VO in the future except if you setup a tour or a campaign of meetings with some serious agency. Because now, i already wrote it, ladies want you mainly in the city (maybe tomorrow they will ask you to shoot a photo of you in front of Maidan ?) to meet you because they  start to be flooded with tons of unwanted sollicitations. As a consequence their ego, in a way start to be boosted, and .... and so on.

I also think that a lot of girls with dubious intentions are into travels with benefits or try to find such "your travel paid by a generous donator or something like this".
You are on the side of the road US, Australian, English guys but things are moving in Europe and the first country to study to understand the impact of this change IMHO is Poland.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 07, 2019, 04:50:40 AM
Pat, your English has regressed somewhat since you started more study of Russian.

In particular, you have often misused the word 'we.'

When you wrote "So we have relinked our communicaton with Kyiv girl," . . . this means that you and another person have relinked your communication with her.  So who is this third person ?

Correct:  I relinked my communication with Kyiv girl.

When you wrote: "You know we had three meetings for more than 10 hours of presence with this woman," . . . this again implies that you and someone else met at the same time with this woman.

Correct:  You know I had three meetings for more than 10 hours with this woman.

When you wrote: " . . . and we like each other very much," this  is correct.

This misuse of 'we' instead of the correct 'I" is common with Ukrainian and Russian speakers.

I often heard women tell me something like:  "We met with my daughter for lunch today."
When I asked who the third (or more) party was, they would reply . . . It was only me and my daughter.
Hi dear MLI always appreciate when someone is coming to correct my english so i can make some improvements on it.
It's quite funny what you say, because i have the same problem in french, and cannot figure out if it started before i came in FSU or because of my FSU travels. 
In french it is more related to the fact to not put emphasis on the I, too much I and I, and I, is understood in my culture as being selfish and self centered.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 09, 2019, 03:33:04 AM
I wasn't being critical Pat. Not that you responded as if I were. I only wanted to point out the hypocrisy of your negative feelings about her changing those photos. From your postings here and from your description of her, it appears you two are really into each other. It would be a shame if possible future relationship went tits up over a miscommunication about the site that you two met on. So much can be misinterpreted through watching (evesdropping) of online activity. IMHO both of you should pause activity on all dating sites until you explore more about each other. But, this shouldn't "need" to be spoken. It would seem to me that you both should want to. I agree with the statement from Elena's models. There's another saying "the grass is always greener on the other side of the hill" LOL. In relationships that's rarely ever the case. Good luck with her whatever the case
No big deal man  ;D
 
We have solved this problem of dating site, and had an open and frank communication about it. And now our both profiles are hidden on the site. She did it by herself, and i did it by myself.

I was not watching her profile, but when a profile is a match and is modified, Badoo sends AUTOMATICALLY a message to all matches. That what happened. I couldn't ignore this signal.
So men, if you are in some relationship with a woman be aware of what those sites are doing before playing with the fire. 

Now we are upgrading our communication and very eager to explore more about each other.
Our meeting is only in 3 weeks and we go in an exciting location of the old Europe.




Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on December 09, 2019, 05:38:44 AM
No big deal man  ;D
 
We have solved this problem of dating site, and had an open and frank communication about it. And now our both profiles are hidden on the site. She did it by herself, and i did it by myself.

I was not watching her profile, but when a profile is a match and is modified, Badoo sends AUTOMATICALLY a message to all matches. That what happened. I couldn't ignore this signal.
So men, if you are in some relationship with a woman be aware of what those sites are doing before playing with the fire. 

Now we are upgrading our communication and very eager to explore more about each other.
Our meeting is only in 3 weeks and we go in an exciting location in of the old Europe.

Let me guess,


Prague ? ;)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 09, 2019, 06:38:17 AM
I wouldn't give the last woman an 8, 7 max for me. Time looks like it's starting to take its toll and that may even reduce her to a 6 if we are taking that into account.

The girl at the top is quite pretty, lovely pair of boobs and still has youth on her side. Yes! At least a good solid 7, possibly verging on an 8 for me. Bodywise an easy 8-9 at least I would say ;D

 
Trench i finally saw a video of this woman (her videos are good for my russian course) and do agree that 5 years ago she was a 8 something 8.1 maybe or 7+ at least. But the german food killed her somehow.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 09, 2019, 07:05:07 AM
Let me guess,


Prague ? ;)
You are close MSB, not so far ... :D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 09, 2019, 08:09:23 AM
So here; we have the horror version of the game analyzed by a "pshychologue" from FSU.
This one, i never heard about it, never, in any forums, any books and any actions in the field i have been involved many years. (from 2007 minus my marriage). 
It could exist in twisted minds, probably some instable minded people, some young lads who have no maturity, no life experience and are totally green, maybe, there are some fools everywhere.But throughout all the material i read and people i have met, never heard about such horror.  :wallbash:
So this woman is disclosing that first creating emotions about the girl (which is true) and after the pickuper puts the woman in contact with weird experiences like cemetary, simulating a crash.
During the third meeting the pickuper is supposed to use a cruel trick named the needle which consists to inflict severe emotional pain on the girl. So he gets some attachment back.  :wallbash:

Don't know where she read or see such shit. If she readed Mystery it's obvious that she only read some parts or her english skills are too low to understand what he wrote. :deadhorse:
I do believe that she reads the Mystery's book because she speaks about the neg (the neg is not delivered to knock down arrogance of a girl but to lower her value while you increase your to allow both partners to have an happy outcome. I never used it myself but i have used the active moving non verbal dance and takeaways).


__________________________________________________________________________ _____
bottom line :

Creating negative emotions are not the goal.
Creating couples of comfortable/uncomfortable situations (sometimes only one or two seconds) are advanced techniques, to push up attraction but that's not a sado maso game and never been the main mechanism of the game, far from this.
Speaking about your vulnerability has nothing to do with jumping in the gloomy and weird.A woman don't surrender, and don't give a sexual service because she feels attached to a man, especially in only few hours of relationship. That's giving too much power to the game and fall in the pathology of deviant manipulators and their victims.

About this psy :
Again we have someone  who have "studied" something half and hour and pretends to master it and explain it to their patients. Those patients will be aware probably of some perverts which is good but it will be totally useless with pickupers.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh8KITLV-c8


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on December 09, 2019, 08:33:14 AM
You are close MSB, not so far ... :D

;)

A Spa resort that has a different name for Germans ? ;)

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 09, 2019, 09:20:19 AM
Don't even believe that mistress wants to let me away :
She wrotes me friday : come to see me in my second city, jump in a blablacar.
I only see the message saturday, but with no intention to do such a thing.  8)
If i had to make this move, i would buy a plane ticket. It's a 15 hours of car back and forth to meet her in her second city.

We don't have the same life, i organize my schedule and make plan two or three weeks in advance sometimes more. She don't even know what she does for the next day.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 09, 2019, 09:24:38 AM
The same with Erika, she is faithfull, every morning, every night she politely wants me the best.
She puts some sexual tension recently on her own on our messages.
 
Something like
I want to kiss you in the back in the cinema.
and
I am very active when it's dark.   :P :P :P   
 
I tried to help her to get more confessions about her being very active when it's dark  :P   

But she prefered to become silent.  8)   
Maybe this is too much a burden  :luv:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 10, 2019, 02:18:52 PM
Если в вашем сердце есть что-то, что хочет плакать, и вы хотите поделиться этим со мной, позвони мне или напиши мне.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 11, 2019, 08:09:00 AM
Ok guys here we are again.

The pickup. In FSU in a supermarket. Of course the guy keeps the video he likes the most, but i think it's not so against the odds. 

So guys tell me with whom he has the most chances to see in the second date? 

Notice his body language and what's his position with the women, does he face them?   8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjwJ-c_5C3E
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on December 11, 2019, 04:29:06 PM
Если в вашем сердце есть что-то, что хочет плакать, и вы хотите поделиться этим со мной, позвони мне или напиши мне.
Did you write this or did she?

I can pretty much read this sentence so my language skills are slowly improving...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 12, 2019, 04:34:31 AM
I wrote it. 
 
She is facing a difficult situation with her ex. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on December 13, 2019, 09:23:26 AM
Если в вашем сердце есть что-то, что хочет плакать, и вы хотите поделиться этим со мной, позвони мне или напиши мне.

Very romantic Pat.

I can usually only say what William Hurt first said to Kim Zimmer when he mistook her for Kathleen Turner in "Body Heat."
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on December 13, 2019, 12:45:33 PM
Did you write this or did she?

A native speaker would never say "что хочет плакать".  There is nothing grammatically incorrect, it's just not something they would say.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 13, 2019, 06:07:36 PM
Very romantic Pat.

I can usually only say what William Hurt first said to Kim Zimmer when he mistook her for Kathleen Turner in "Body Heat."
Thank you man, it comes from the heart.

I don't understand ? "I can usually only say what William Hurt first said to Kim Zimmer when he mistook her for Kathleen Turner in "Body Heat."
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on December 13, 2019, 07:40:38 PM
A native speaker would never say "что хочет плакать".  There is nothing grammatically incorrect, it's just not something they would say.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
What would be the common expression to express a similar sentiment?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on December 15, 2019, 11:10:51 AM
I don't understand ? "I can usually only say what William Hurt first said to Kim Zimmer when he mistook her for Kathleen Turner in "Body Heat."

http://www.moviequotes.com/quote/ned-hey-lady-ya-wanna-fuck-mary-ann-gee-i/

Movie:  Body Heat 1981  William Hurt and Kathleen Turner

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1002830_body_heat
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 16, 2019, 04:07:41 AM
http://www.moviequotes.com/quote/ned-hey-lady-ya-wanna-fuck-mary-ann-gee-i/ (http://www.moviequotes.com/quote/ned-hey-lady-ya-wanna-fuck-mary-ann-gee-i/)

Movie:  Body Heat 1981  William Hurt and Kathleen Turner

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1002830_body_heat (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1002830_body_heat)

 
Thank you for the explanations
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 16, 2019, 02:52:45 PM
The conquest for the eastern world started long time ago.
14 years ago from today barely.

This post is largely related to http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24040.msg523529#msg523529 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24040.msg523529#msg523529)
where the focus point of the discussion, page three, is about the necessity to raise enough money before getting any FSU clearance.   
 
Of course it depends slightly of the country and city where you live and if you are planning to have one or two children with your wife, or to welcome a woman with one or two children (it happens more than you think, especially for women not so young).
 
I would say that you have to go for the top 10% single earners (not the same as household) of your country. This is named the last decile (or the first decile if you prefer).
If you can perform better, better it is. 

So i remember in 2005 i had my job, not so bad, an other business and i had bought a new flat not so big but no so small with a little garden and i was quite happy to have bought it considering that it was a real bargain. 

At the same time i met a beautiful solid 8 udachi in a restaurant, and it was pure luck because even if i was physically a nice man i was having no game with women in general.
But this evening i was myself with a nice female friend and I don't even now how I performed such thing but we started to sympatyze with two young  ladies (10 years younger than I) seated at a table nearby. 

At this moment i got  some attraction coming from the most beautiful of the two. A nice blond with blue eyes, slim, a real 8. But i wrecked all of course and became a LJTBF (lets just to be friend) at the end.



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 16, 2019, 03:09:07 PM
So to make it short we started to have a relationship, 
a friendly relationship  :rolleyes:
 As her attraction has vanished quickly with me Pat the nice guy, incapable to raise any mystery, never escalading anything.Except one time when i dared to send a likely joke intended to raise some romantical tension  in her appartment (she was temporary living at parents' place), and when i read her reaction on her face it maked me embarassed and i never reedited such deviation. Of course i felt in the "just be friends" and not even few months after i disappeared of her radar, public and private. 

But the point is that one time she came at my home and I was quite proud of my acquisition, considering the real good financial deal I had done. It let her totally unimpressed to see my appartment.
 
Soon later i restarted with my ex girlfriend the third, but the last episode of an important love story of three years divided in 6 months together, 6 months splitted, and again and again three times. So we were in the last episode I think and girlfriend came in this appartment and dislike it.
I started to think that something was wrong with this flat. And maybe with any flat that I had in my life.
And so maybe that I missed something in my life with women, my fault.
So more I was thinking about this and more I came to the conclusion that women need a nest to land in your hand. That's easy to say but in reality considering real estate prices it's not for everybody. 

I flipped my head five or six weeks thinking about all of this and came to the point that to change my life i had to make more money.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 16, 2019, 03:19:23 PM
Oh i have to tell you a funny story.
One time we were in the city center with her and some friends of mine and she told me, you know my sister is in the city. I told her ok she can come along us no problem.
And then came an atomic bomb. The youngest was already really pretty, but this one was totally gorgeous.
So after the restaurant we decided to go to a jazz club where is was possible to dance, but the dance floor was very small, maybe 20 persons maximum.
And so we went to dance with the two sisters, and as the minutes were passing by i could feel a stronger and stronger pressure due to all the guys of all the club coming to join and trying to come closer as possible of the two sisters and of course pressuring me also because i was beside her. 
It was very funny. 
I had the same happening to me in a very big club (5 dance floors) in Swiss and i finally told to the two ladies "maybe you could leave the floor so we can have more place to dance, with a big smile". And smile returned. Nothing more because i would have been petrified to ask them their phone numbers at this time.

So just to say that those women perfectly know what happens and they see men coming from miles away
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 16, 2019, 03:28:23 PM
So the year was about to be finished and I came to the conclusion that i could renovated this damned flat working hard, sell it, get big money, pay all the credits i have, rent a bigger flat with three bedrooms in a high quality area, buy a new car, buy this, buy that, and have really more money every month than before.
I had found the solution.but I had to scratch my head very hard to come to such solution. 
Every revolution starts with an awareness of your reality
If Spartacus never realizes he is a slave he will never fight for freedom

Every big move is a constant fight between maintaining a comfort and a better but unknow life, with the associated risk.
So a lot of people looked at me consterned because i was selling to rent rather than to stay an owner. But that was my life and not their life.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 17, 2019, 02:13:26 AM
I remember the end of the year, a rage somewhere in me took place and while it was Chritmas I started to renovated, repainting the toilet and the entrance while people were partying.
I had taken my decision and wanted to renovate all in this flat to maximise the money I can get back the day i will sell it finished.
And the fact was, my three years girlfriend divided by every six months liked the flat as it had been  renovated. 
I sold it for a very high price. Barely doubling my advantage in less than three years.
So i could rent a three bedrooms flat in a residence with a pool, balcony, garage in a very good location and every month I had really more cash than before.
 
I changed my car, rebought a motorbike and buy new furnitures to fill the flat. So one evening i had guests at home and i asked a lady what do you think about the appartment. I was waiting something like I like the view on the swimming pool or it's very quiet. And she told me eyes largely open : "all is new"
 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 17, 2019, 08:57:27 AM
I have heard few of my female friends with whom I had been close enough for years talking hundreds of hours.
And the fact was that this damned house/appartment was in the score for the boyfriend acceptance. 
 
So somewhere lets say that I switched off an orange flag (or red flag) above my head.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 18, 2019, 03:51:48 PM
Some news about the field.

It seems to be that i am loosing the Dnipro lady, MAYDAY MAYDAY
I have been not too much present to our usual waypoints, morning, evening saying hi last three days,and that seems to bite my ass  :D Really guy, she is a nice lady and if she wants to go, i wish her to have a nice destiny.
There is a moment where  the world is nicely done and works by himself. 
So i was asking myself how i can keep on with her
Because 
Because what ?  8)   
Because i have a so high level of connection with the lady of Kiev that it starts to make no sense to keep two women for too long (three sorry), i mean two real challengers.
 
To tell you how things are going well, sometimes we are like two teenagers pawing at the ground because we discover that we have something exactly in common and a so huge genuine  wish to explore the world in every aspect, so we cannot stop to exchange in a very fast mode messages each other. 
And we are very excited and behind this excitation there is a lot of openess, tolerance and tenderness. But for this last, I am facing a classical lady and you need a lot of time before she warms up.   
I am warming up faster than her, however i communicate on my personal life and interests, so huge, only very very progressively.
I hate to brag, and my ex french girlfriend of this summer helped me to understand that i was following so many things in so many aspects that now I prefer to shut up or slowly talk about rather than look like patronizing
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on December 18, 2019, 04:46:10 PM

Because i have a so high level of connection with the lady of Kiev that it starts to make no sense to keep two women for too long (three sorry), i mean two real challengers.


Pat, these 2 or 3 women might also be connected to multiple men.

Neither you nor they are doing any harm by keeping open communication.

No engagement has been proposed or accepted.

Would you resign from a perfectly good job before you were completely hired into a new position?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on December 18, 2019, 10:53:13 PM
Pat, these 2 or 3 women might also be connected to multiple men.

Neither you nor they are doing any harm by keeping open communication.

No engagement has been proposed or accepted.

Would you resign from a perfectly good job before you were completely hired into a new position?
How would you frame it as a consultant?

Developing two or three leads? What happens if they know you're working on a lead with a competitor?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 19, 2019, 02:12:33 AM
To answer to both of you ML and RWD123
The Dnipro lady is back. Lol. 
This morning 
 
ML is right : you never know with women.   
But RWD123 you make a good point : the last thing I want is to loose Lady Kiev when I will be with her in 15 days. this lady is smart, without question. 
 Last time because she had no battery (a classic in FSU) she had to play with my phone to call the taxi. So I let you imagine she saw some of my book entries. And that was not the most favorable for me.
 The last thing I want is having a message of a girl from Ukraine popping out on my phone while we are playing with our phones. Even if I have deactivated the notifications I got messages popping. And i cannot change the icon popping out, it's owned by your contact, I can only change the name of the contact. But as all the communication is in russian, if I write ColleagueNumberThree anyone will figure out that's fishy because people around me NORMALLY don't speak russian cause i am living in France.
 
Anyway ML is right, on a strategical level you shouldn't let go Dnipro girl and french mistress, especially before the meeting. At least I should wait after the meeting.
Who knows what will happen in intimacy, and so on.

I cannot say anything wrong about this lady in Dnipro. But I don't know her too much. The only thing I know is that I am fed up with this city and i go there because i have some friends and some dental work to do. 
Additionnaly she don't live in the city but in other one and that's a big trip for her. Also her job is a freelance job and she works often 6 days per week end. So that gonna to be complicated to date and see her on a regular basis. She could be your future wife, but she could also be the perfect fuckfriend even if women don't land for ever in such position. My previous fuckfriend from the city of the previous summer was perfect but she has disappeared from the site so I believe she has a life now.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: krimster2 on December 19, 2019, 08:16:14 AM
"The only thing I know is that I am fed up with this city"

it's easy to get to Odessa from Dnipro...
try over there...
March is a good time when the weather is warm, then anytime after May...
I think you can handle Odessa especially if you like Kyiv...
but you have to be an "A" list player to play in Odessa
but it's a "rich" spot...
easy to meet girls on arcadia and take them some zakuski
once one of these girls eats something directly from your hand
they will be yours...
worked every freakin time for me...
but Odessa women were different from the girls in Kyiv...
more "harsh" more demanding, a tougher nut to crack than a village girl, which is freakin easy, even a geezer like me can crack a 19 yr old village girl without even trying...

love is a lot like martial arts...
every fighter needs a style of fighting...
and once they pick a style that suits them
they need to practice combat...

my style was the street pickup, worked beautifully for me...
and I practiced often
and was GOOD at it...
and how I met my wife...

if I was a single dewd, and didn't have all the Russian contacts that I have today
I'd totally go with VK to filter women down to a list of "possibilities"
and after a lot of video chatting, etc, I'd see if I "clicked" with any...
and I'd work within this list...

guys who are at least upper middle class, have a decent education, look at least average
will have NO PROBLEM in Ukraine...
BUT...
you better get it while you can...

guys...
you should focus on finding someone you connect with, looks are only a part of that..
generally it starts with some common interest...
so start there...
where do your interests overlap with hers...

you'd be amazed at the huge amount of attention my art work generated in Ukraine and Russia
guys if you have ANY uncommon skill or ability, figure out how to show it off...
this is like throwing birdseed to a flock of pigeons over there...

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on December 19, 2019, 08:46:55 AM
. . . if you have ANY uncommon skill or ability, figure out how to show it off...
this is like throwing birdseed to a flock of pigeons over there...

What about ability to lick one's forehead ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 19, 2019, 08:56:49 AM
"The only thing I know is that I am fed up with this city"

it's easy to get to Odessa from Dnipro...
try over there...
March is a good time when the weather is warm, then anytime after May...
I think you can handle Odessa especially if you like Kyiv...
but you have to be an "A" list player to play in Odessa
but it's a "rich" spot...
easy to meet girls on arcadia and take them some zakuski
once one of these girls eats something directly from your hand
they will be yours...
worked every freakin time for me...
but Odessa women were different from the girls in Kyiv...
more "harsh" more demanding, a tougher nut to crack than a village girl, which is freakin easy, even a geezer like me can crack a 19 yr old village girl without even trying...

love is a lot like martial arts...
every fighter needs a style of fighting...
and once they pick a style that suits them
they need to practice combat...

my style was the street pickup, worked beautifully for me...
and I practiced often
and was GOOD at it...
and how I met my wife...

if I was a single dewd, and didn't have all the Russian contacts that I have today
I'd totally go with VK to filter women down to a list of "possibilities"
and after a lot of video chatting, etc, I'd see if I "clicked" with any...
and I'd work within this list...

guys who are at least upper middle class, have a decent education, look at least average
will have NO PROBLEM in Ukraine...
BUT...
you better get it while you can...
Street pickup seduction is the most difficult, but probably the most rewarding. 

For the moment i am busy and need to explore this woman of Kiev. She is worth of everything I am searching for. But it's a too early to confirm a LTR.
But I take you advices with high interest. 
VK could be largely the way to go. I need to tune my russian and about this one there is still a lot of work to do. 
I recently came along while searching in russian the surrogate of Antidate to a list of women wanting sex and the google search engine sent me directly to Dnipro! I was typing the keywords "sex tourist".   
The most interesting was the text coming with the ads.
Very instructive. One woman was even offering some money. No no, not ugly a little above average, nice legs 41, a dude would fly 8000 miles to marry her.
Basically, to summary, except the ones who needs some fast sex to cool down their pussies there is a category of woman around 40 who seem to have some real difficulty to satisfy their libido.
I would to know better about this. But if you don't use the russian language you will never learn anything.
Maybe i will publish some photos here, if RWD is not against it.

Odessa i don't know. Could be a spot, normally not a city I advise to newbies. The weather during the summer is a plus, but I think during winter it's quite dead.
About flights it's not so bad but one flight arrives mid night and that generally shit to get the keys of the flat.
It's also possible that the vibe you met in Odessa has changed a lot. I think that you will meet a lot of girls coming from Ukraine, especially Kiev and they will leave you after two weeks... So as my goal is not spend my whole year, day after day to chase some vanishing pussies....

I do agree on this one "guys who are at least upper middle class, have a decent education, look at least average will have NO PROBLEM in Ukraine", just a matter of time and he could find a good woman.

Even if i feel comfortable in Ukraine with a high rate of second date, i would say that i could be not comfortable with the "high style life" of Odessa.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on December 19, 2019, 09:23:28 AM
. . . needs some fast sex to cool down their pussies . . .

Wouldn't you have to use a frozen carrot to help them achieve this ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 19, 2019, 09:57:10 AM
Wouldn't you have to use a frozen carrot to help them achieve this ?
Maybe the carrot risks to melt.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: krimster2 on December 19, 2019, 10:00:47 AM
there were a lot of 40 year old women my wife kept away from me when we lived in Sevastopol...
so it was common for some of my wife's friends who was visiting a lot to just suddenly disappear
or one of my daughters private tutors to just disappear...
if I made an inquiry, I'd get a short, curt response from my wife which was unusual...
what I later learned was basically ANY woman who my wife SUSPECTED as being interested in me was banned from our life...

my daughters would do something similar...
when ever we moored our sail boat in Sevastopol, we were mobbed by a crowd of mostly women...
cuz back in the Ukraine days you COULD fly an American flag off your boat without any grief
but I wouldn't do that today!!
my daughters would literally "shoo" away the girls, they would get intensely jealous if any women paid attention to me and they would be very rude to these women!!
fortunately, they are over that stage now, but they do tell me to stay away from the moms of a couple of their friends cuz of this
VERY common problem in Russia!!!
and SOME of these women are VERY good looking
gawd, what a young good looking American guy could do over there with these women....
oh man, he would be devoured by these women like a piece of meat


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: pitbull on December 19, 2019, 10:33:47 AM
there were a lot of 40 year old women my wife kept away from me when we lived in Sevastopol...
so it was common for some of my wife's friends who was visiting a lot to just suddenly disappear
or one of my daughters private tutors to just disappear...
if I made an inquiry, I'd get a short, curt response from my wife which was unusual...
what I later learned was basically ANY woman who my wife SUSPECTED as being interested in me was banned from our life...

This is weird considering she allows you to bang hookers left and right. At least those women were decent. Or is it the possibility that you might leave her for one of them and she could lose the $ that made her so jealous? Sex with a hooker is after all a one time expense  ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on December 19, 2019, 10:53:20 AM
Sex with a hooker is after all a one time expense  ;D

And they actually perform.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 19, 2019, 11:25:16 AM
there were a lot of 40 year old women my wife kept away from me when we lived in Sevastopol...
so it was common for some of my wife's friends who was visiting a lot to just suddenly disappear
or one of my daughters private tutors to just disappear...
if I made an inquiry, I'd get a short, curt response from my wife which was unusual...
what I later learned was basically ANY woman who my wife SUSPECTED as being interested in me was banned from our life...

my daughters would do something similar...
when ever we moored our sail boat in Sevastopol, we were mobbed by a crowd of mostly women...
cuz back in the Ukraine days you COULD fly an American flag off your boat without any grief
but I wouldn't do that today!!
my daughters would literally "shoo" away the girls, they would get intensely jealous if any women paid attention to me and they would be very rude to these women!!
fortunately, they are over that stage now, but they do tell me to stay away from the moms of a couple of their friends cuz of this
VERY common problem in Russia!!!
and SOME of these women are VERY good looking
gawd, what a young good looking American guy could do over there with these women....
oh man, he would be devoured by these women like a piece of meat
Nice post
I am not surprised with the attitude of you wife and how she is leading the campaign.
Not surprised also of the cultural aspect that they have, i had the same type of behavior during the first two years of my marriage, she wanted to push away some women gravitating around me. Even if they were not lovers or ex lovers.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on December 19, 2019, 12:05:41 PM
Nice post
I am not surprised with the attitude of you wife and how she is leading the campaign.
Not surprised also of the cultural aspect that they have, i had the same type of behavior during the first two years of my marriage, she wanted to push away some women gravitating around me. Even if they were not lovers or ex lovers.

My wife is quite the non-jealous type.
A good type to be with . . . even as I have not shown any interest in other women, and don't plan to.

However, during my VM trips, I spent time with a few FSU gals who were very jealous.

Some would check out my apartment (if they had been gone for some days) to see the levels in the containers of flour, olive oil, etc., as they knew that I wouldn't use any of those myself. 

But I had anticipated this, so I had extra amounts of those items hidden away and would refill the main containers when I did, in fact, have other women in my apartment who cooked.

Also important to check as closely as possible to find any strands of hair of the 'wrong' color in hairbrush, sink, tub or elsewhere.

One time, a gal left a very expensive bright pink coat in my apartment.  I had to really search to find a place to hide it from other gals, before she came back the following week.

Note:  These women knew that I was on a VM trip . . . but still they didn't want to be slapped in the face with it.  Better that they could fool themselves by not finding any 'evidence.'
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 19, 2019, 12:52:14 PM
My wife is quite the non-jealous type.
A good type to be with . . . even as I have not shown any interest in other women, and don't plan to.

However, during my VM trips, I spent time with a few FSU gals who were very jealous.

Some would check out my apartment (if they had been gone for some days) to see the levels in the containers of flour, olive oil, etc., as they knew that I wouldn't use any of those myself. 

But I had anticipated this, so I had extra amounts of those items hidden away and would refill the main containers when I did, in fact, have other women in my apartment who cooked.

Also important to check as closely as possible to find any strands of hair of the 'wrong' color in hairbrush, sink, tub or elsewhere.

One time, a gal left a very expensive bright pink coat in my apartment.  I had to really search to find a place to hide it from other gals, before she came back the following week.

Note:  These women knew that I was on a VM trip . . . but still they didn't want to be slapped in the face with it.  Better that they could fool themselves by not finding any 'evidence.'
Priceless post for his humour,
And yes +1 you have to save the appareances --> "but they didn't want to be slapped in the face with it". 
This is perfectly acceptable for them that you date several women (to some extend) provided that you know how to handle it.
My mistress perfectly knows that i see or saw some others women, she makes some little sarcasms, i don't give a shit and don't answer, and next.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 19, 2019, 01:07:27 PM
After have gone and being considered as lost Erika comes back with more fury. 
 
And the temperature starts to increase in her panty. 
Will i become a sexual slave? 
That's why we have come to the universe to be nude in front of a woman in exchange of her charnel desire. 
But before there are words, the magic word of every thing that exists before you touch her skin and kiss her.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 19, 2019, 01:23:34 PM
Sorry I have to answer to her. 
She proposes after i have proposed to remove some clothes that we spread cream on each other.
After a so charming proposition I have to investigate the pharmacy. Oh no  :cluebat:
I am so stupid, i have to look for in the kitchen, chocolate cream, fresh cream, Chantilly. Oh Chantilly très bien, very nice, beautiful Castle to make love, Serious name, very erotic.
Now how I can find this in Ukraine, how i know in Silpo, they have everything. 
So now what will go along with the Chantilly cream? We need champaign or sweet white winelike a Sauternes, Sainte Croix du Mont, or maybe something more fruity but more dry like a Gewurztraminer. 

Am i going to wet her underwear? To be commonly decided, include her in the game. Or maybe i will enter in her before the liquid really touches her? 
Who know. I have time to decide,

And more, to let her dreaming about this castel, the taste of the Chanitilly cream, the sound when it will slap slowly her skin, the chill along her spine when i will remove more clothes of her, and my tongue all along this mousse river, hoping that she will not grip too much the stick.
Title: Re: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 23, 2019, 03:16:55 AM
NLP and love (neuro linguistic programmation)
Love and game 
Game and intimacy 
What's an anchor 
 
An anchor is linking an emotion or an internal state to an external stimuli.   
Activating the stimuli allows the emotion or the internal stimuli to be reactivated.
 
So what happens on the field :
So it starts from some sweet dessert I showed her a photo.
She : "I would really like to eat those dessert with you"     
Me : "It will be dangerous, we will eat and after we will feel fat. So necessary to remove some clothes"     
She : "I imagine what a creamie frenzy we will have"   
 Me : "I will buy some Cream Chantilly. It's sweet and white. We will remove some clothes but not all. I put some Chantilly on you and I remove it with my tongue and after you do the same on me. Good night, stay quiet" 
Stay quiet, paradoxal injonction to say don't think about. When you say in NPL don't think about a Ferrari the first thing you do is thinking about a red car. The paradoxal injonction is reinforcing her to think about and keep her in this positive and exciting state. 
Me : You have arleady bought the Chantilly ?   
Me : I just hope that you will eat the Chantilly and not me
Her : Hello Pat I am buying Cream Chantilly and wear underwear made of delicate Chantilly lace
   
Next time I go to the supermarket, I will take a photo of Cream Chantilly and send to her. Every month. Because I cannot return in her city before april.

Reactivate few days before the meeting,
Buy some and put in the fridge. Just before she enters in the flat put the Cream Chantilly on the table just in front the entrance. 

Have frenetic sex and enjoy.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 25, 2019, 07:35:16 AM
Stunts and le baiser caché
 
L'espoir secret, sur tes lèvres le baiser,
Le soir revenir et jurer sur le Sherman
Dire qu'il n'y a d'espoir que dans le noir, lorsque l'on se cache dans les nuages
Je reviendrai pour m'endormir au petit jour lorsque la lumière se sera tue
 
Les playmates et mon envie de refroidir la fille du chef
Les strass et les limbes du mambo noir
Le string de l'archiduchesse 
Love me and never let it overdue
You have never put me happy
But keep me close to the jerks party
Just let me to do
I will stunt a baiser through the gate 
L'amour est le transport et moi son obligé
Et toi où est ton protégé ?
Le char sur la passerelle de fer regarde son maitre et je me couche sur les berges de Seine You can get everything
You can do the worse to me 
Deux F88 Voodo on the bridge
Reverse the matrix
Et je ris It is not your son, it is not your battle, i will die into the river
I would never prevent you let us flying in the sky, dropping the fantsasy, I hope for never 
The white horse is entering in the courtyard
Je relève le soldat de garde et tu te déshabilles dans le lit blanc
Tes hanches conquérantes au seuil de la chambre étincelante
Joe Strummer dans la Camarro noire métal avant le Clash
Biggest celebrations in the old black clock
I kicked out the boss and reload the box
Throught the dentist convention
Could be true could be false
Magnificent seven, i kiss the surrogates et m'agenouille auprès de ta beauté solennelle
за тобой проста глаза отрой
ты моя душа
Je pleure toute les nuits dans la nef de l'archange sacré 
Et sur mon heaume de métal glacé la croix de Malte
Pour renverser les écritures et les saintes dans l'hôtel
Je bois un café à Paris café de Flore pendant que tes jambes fuselées
sur la couverture noire d'un magazine très chic se dispersent ad decorum
Je vais déposer sur tes lèvres desséchées un baiser empressé
And then you will perform various stunts on the desert of my heart
 
Et plus encore ce sentiment d'exister et d'être aimé.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 26, 2019, 01:49:13 AM
Very good site to learn russian, for beginners and intermediate levels.
You have all what you need here :
Russian cases detailled, videos on different gramatical aspects, vocabulary...

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCymAc4YKWYjDqNnLoK7m-2A/videos (http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCymAc4YKWYjDqNnLoK7m-2A/videos)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 27, 2019, 02:09:02 AM
So now in one week I will board a plane to meet lady of Kiev in an other city of Europe to spend few days together, visiting and enjoying our time.
For the moment all is fine we have daily numerous messages, several talks every week. 

During three days we suffered from a little slowest communication and I understood that we were made in the same mould : we are entitle to take some distance when the communication slow dow, so of course if we do this all together that's dammaging the relationship. 

She is a woman who opens slowly. I open quicker than her emotionnaly but not so much, and I need a lot of time to tell her about all I did or all I am doing. Of course today there are still many things she don't know. 

I also wanted to keep her interest high during those 6 weeks before the meeting. I have been successful. 

She is the one I consider long term relationship material.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 27, 2019, 02:09:45 AM
I started the mourny of my ex wife 3 years ago, she left the house 2 years ago and today this previous marriage has no weight on my emotionnal connection with other women, except the accelerated understanding of the ongoing misandry from which I try to protect myself. 

Lady of Kiev is now showing what every guy here on the forum describes as "when an FSU womand likes you you know it". I have some experience with FSU women and extensive experience with women in general and so I have no doubt of what is going on between us.   
I am focussing on learning russian and spend significant time on it while it's noticeable that she makes increasing effort with english.   
 
Unlikely many guys here, my actual strategy is to spend a significant time in FSU in the future as a new life style. 

Therefore russian becomes critical. It could be non critical, my previous buddy living in Kharkov never spoke russian except the basic one. 

But I consider that russian is the masterpiece of the game in FSU. Ok I did without or with very little russian skills before, I even spent a complete evening with a lady in Kharkov who didn't speak any french and english and we had good time together. 

There is also an other reason : I really want to talk with people, connect with them even if I perfectly know that I will stay a foreigner for ever. I like exploring and the language is of course a key pass.   

Knowing russian is also an investment, you are broadening your pool of of women immensely and put aside all the dubious english speaker who have an hidden agenda. 

In summary, if you are capable to barely hold a casual conversation in russian, how is not possible to find many women in FSU? 

Russian could also helps me to find some business in the future or to be hired in the FSU area.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 27, 2019, 07:02:14 AM
Average wages in Kiev, asked to bystanders in Kiev.

The youtuber had been criticized because he was conducting his survey considered as not very representative because, for example, drivers had not been questionned. 
So the answers are :
4000 grv
8000 grv
5000 grv
15000 grv
20000 grv 
7000 grv
5000 grv 8000 grv
5000 grv
12000 grv
6/8000 grv
8000 grv
10/15000 grv 
10/15000 grv 
7000 grv
12000 grv
10000 grv
 
It's very likely that each bystander is giving an average according to his own wage. 
 
I think with 12000 grv we should be close to the truth. 
That's 500 $

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtJqTWdUMww

 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 30, 2019, 03:34:07 AM
This week I have been dating counselor 

We went to a nice club saturday evening with some friends and one guy I know started to chit chat with a lady of our team. 
Sunday evening I called him to talk a little more.
He asked me some informations about this woman I was supposed to had know long time ago, and then he told me that he was trying to date her.

So what did he right?
* He understood and read wome signs of interest of her
* He managed to retrieve her phone number or she gave it to him, anyway it's a NumClose 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 30, 2019, 03:44:12 AM
But after he messed up the whole thing.
 
* In the sunday morning he SMS her to meet asap (we left the party at 2 AM) 
* she was answered she was busy. 
* He resent an SMS later to date her in the evening
* She wrote him a french proverb meaning "patience is the best policy" like that...
* He wrote her 1/ Do you think maybe we have chance 2/ Do you think we don't have a chance 3/ Do you think we have a chance, something like this.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 30, 2019, 03:49:07 AM
Let me put this  :trainwreck: under scrutiny 

I told him, fellow you have been married a long time and now alone on the dating market so you have forgot all about dating. And probably you have known very few about it as this country of course will never help you to teach you how to date women. 
This culture never showed you how to do this, even more, medias and main stream will likely to prevent you to find such informations. 
So what happens to you is quite normal, that's not your fault. 
Now some explanations.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 30, 2019, 04:04:00 AM
You should never contact a girl during the week end (even more when you have met her saturday night). 

Your statiscal chances to meet her drops very significantly when you do this in France.

You just show 1/ You are in hurry 2/ YOu are free all the sunday so you are alone withouth any people to meet, no hobbies scheduled 3/ Or you put her before a lot of things you usually do, so you are giving her a high value while nothing has still happened.

What happens to a woman when she gave her phone number to a unknown man?
Her phone number is quite personnal and so she is giving some trust to this man.
Now she has just get out of the bed, and she had given just given her phone number few hours ago and this man is already texting her.
He texts her again in the afternoon.
And a third time during the same day.

She starts to think that she don't know this man, nothing has happened, she had just chit chat with him 30 minutes and NOW he is already starting some harassment on her,
So what it will be if she goes to a rendez-vous and even more if she starts to have a relationship with him?
She starts to feel annoyed and uncomfortable now, not the best start for a relationship.
She starts to think that this man is not interesting because he has no life and do nothing interesting sunday, and if he is nothing interesting this sunday, it's more likely that he usually performs anything interesting every sunday.   

As men are more likely to call their friends to drop any appointment with them BECAUSE they want to change their plan to meet a new girlIt's very unlikely that women will do the same with their friends, because the man, even if they would eager to meet him, has almost no value in the feminin hierarchy compared to her friends.
That's the difference between men and women. Men would change their plan on the spot, women not, or very unlikely.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 30, 2019, 04:21:10 AM
But the death's kiss comes from the last SMS that approximately asks to the lady what will be the future of the relationship. 


He told me but I acted naturally, I don't need to be an other man. 
 
I told him : your chances now you will never see her again are more than 85%.
The result of what you call your nature is a  maladjustment to the social dynamics and that will push you later in some misoginy (giving to the women the fault for their cruelty, their indecisiveness), depression and loniless, do you really want to be the product of your nature, that brings inefficiency in the result ?

If a guy works in a garage and needs one hour to change four wheels rather than the expected 15 minutes what he is going to say to the boss, "yes I know normally it should be done in 20 minutes, but me i proceed naturally". And  some others do it also naturally but in ten minutes. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 30, 2019, 04:34:40 AM
So the death's kiss.
The final bouquet of the day.  :wallbash:


I told him you are the chaser and you assume at least 60% of the pursuit, in the best case she unlocks the door you push the door, switch on the light, bring some chairs and so on ...You are a man, nothing has changed last 50000 years and you lead the dance, most of the time,That's your job.


Now with your last SMS you are asking a validation; of what?
 
Of something that still doesn't exist. 
Women hate to do such thing, they will never tell you if they have some attraction directlly in the written form. They hate when a man comes and say barely validate me, it kills all attraction.
They don't want to feel guilty or responsable of anything in seduction, all is on men's shoulders. 
 
Lately when a man write such SMS you also show that you are not confident, and self confidence is very attractive to women.

NB : we are here in the french dating scene, some modifications could apply abroad.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 30, 2019, 05:30:34 AM
The end of discussion was around when to contact her again (his concern).
And my concern was more arounc you should damned stop to contact her. 

But "what about the happy new year".
I told him your last chance. Your last card in your hands.
And then I understood that he wanted to contact her ASAP after the new year.
DON"T DO such a thing, DON'T send a sms at 12:03 AM. No  :cluebat:

In the best case you send her a SMS in the evening of the 1st january, NOT before.
You cannot raise an unknow person to the same level of your family, old friends other relatives. They have the highest priority, NOT this woman. 

And while you send your greetings you also propose a rendez vous including two options that she can barely refuse both of them if possible with a real date and hours. 
Not a texting like, "if you are free we can meet next week". It's not her job to setup the appointment and the place. 
You are the man you find a place to go, maybe somewhere exciting for her, not necessary expensive.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on December 31, 2019, 01:20:01 AM
Pat,

If I met a lady I liked, telling her same and wanting to spend more time with her ...weekend or not...is nit 'weakness'...it's just stating a fact..


In my opinion, your advice does not fit with my experience of most women..but then I only had a chance with one FR lady and I didn't take it..))
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 31, 2019, 08:11:09 PM
I thank God,
I thank the earth
To have given me a so exciting life
Of course, in a large way, what happened to me is the result of a long work that I started 12 years ago. It's a kind of reward.

I was invited for this celebration in a private party with maybe 50 people.

And then she came.
I didn't so much took care about her in the beginning because I found her young, very young, she was the youngest of all people present.

There was no even a doubt that she was the prettiest and the sexiest woman of the evening.
Wearing high heels, quite high for french women but not high for FSU women, black and classical. A nice jean, a very short top showing eight inches of her skin back and front, a V describing not small and not very big breasts but  absolutely firm and almost rounded lovely boobs. 
A perfect skin that I touched many times later. 
Long black hair, absolutely exceptional blue/green eyes, rarely seen this type. 
Tall 175 cm. A tonic body absolutely firm but not over muscled which is awful for a woman. 
 
Normally guys this is not my type of woman, she is a mix between  french and some arabic roots world but in the best version. (her hair are the most obvious sign or her mixed parents, I know)
I prefer blondinka normally

but this woman was not only the prettiest of the party but she is damned hot, she is a HB she is close to be a 9 or she is. Here in France.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 31, 2019, 08:19:28 PM
So she arrived after the crownd and you can feel that she was a little isolated.
I though, Pat you should talk to her. 

But I didn't want to fall on her like an eagle and morever at this moment I didn't know what I could tell her.   

So excuse me to not remember all the details but finally in front of the buffet I opened her. And everything was smooth and easy, we found common interests very quickly. She writes like me poetry in prose. So we started to have a passionate conversation about many things. 
I was using very naturaly a lot of social proof (but did I needed to fake or to calculate this? No my life has been so rich that all I could related was the fruit of a real history), I avoided to touch her and I tried to maintain my angle to her quite open (not face to face).

We aimed to find two seats and go further, her knee started to touch mine.
And then she started to make some qualifications and disqualifcations. A man came to talk to her and she disqulified him telling me this my best buddy, a friend, the detailled explanation was about to show me that he was not a lover, even a potential one.  And she started to qualify me by asking me if I was single and direct personal questions.

At this moment I knew that we were in the game and she was sending real signs of interest.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 31, 2019, 08:51:05 PM
We danced and that was quite sensual, she liked, she tried to teach me some Bacchatta basics. 
We drank many glasses of champaign.
She retrieved two pieces of dessert, one for her one for me.
She showed me her childrens, her cats, everything that was precious for her, even things who made her crying.
She is also a normal woman who needs to be supported and loved.
Her problem is that every man, except the only buddy (male) who was present tonight, want to fuck her. That's not me who write this, this what she told to me, not to brag or try to impress me but because that's the exact truth and when you see her, who is the guy who will raise his finger saying : "me I don't want to bed her". 
So i could stroke her back, nude skin, from the low end to the last vertebra, drop my hand on her thigh as I want, stroke her hair and sometimes hold her hand. 
We didn't kiss but I didn't feel that was time to go for this and didn't feel any value at this moment in kissing. 
I think that she wants a more normal relationship, rather than a bang.
 
At the end of the party, she told me "when do you invite me for a diner" 
This one is BIG and quite rare. 

but when a woman really likes you she could date herself. 

It's important however to not fall in the case let just to be friend.
But I could smell her when dancing  and this smell was not her flagrance, nor her sweating. That was a more intim woman smell.

We finally called each other to check if we were safe returning home.
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 31, 2019, 09:04:54 PM
And the "coup de grace" is that she lives few kilometers from my place 

And now I can die, kiss the stars, and sleep in the sky.   

Because two beautiful women are waiting me soon, the first one in less than two days and the second I will meet her two days I will be back from the first
Two others also like me  but they are more distant and are less interesting.
 
The game is verified, reverified, certified, he comes with more certainty than all that have been published in quantum physics.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 01, 2020, 02:23:40 AM
So the death's kiss.
The final bouquet of the day.  :wallbash:


I told him you are the chaser and you assume at least 60% of the pursuit, in the best case she unlocks the door you push the door, switch on the light, bring some chairs and so on ...You are a man, nothing has changed last 50000 years and you lead the dance, most of the time,That's your job.


Now with your last SMS you are asking a validation; of what?
 
Of something that still doesn't exist. 
Women hate to do such thing, they will never tell you if they have some attraction directlly in the written form. They hate when a man comes and say barely validate me, it kills all attraction.
They don't want to feel guilty or responsable of anything in seduction, all is on men's shoulders. 
 
Lately when a man write such SMS you also show that you are not confident, and self confidence is very attractive to women.

NB : we are here in the french dating scene, some modifications could apply abroad.



I asked my friend some update about this lady.
He told me no news.
I wrote to him that it was absolutely normal and he should proceed to the last sms in the evening of the 1st january.   

Hope that she will answer  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 01, 2020, 12:11:15 PM
WOW, Pat is having an exciting life with new women.

And here most of us have to be content with our existing women.

But actually I am mostly content and moreover . . . abhor the thought of ever having to start over !!!

The chase does have its excitement; but is also a royal PIA.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 01, 2020, 01:11:04 PM
WOW, Pat is having an exciting life with new women.

And here most of us have to be content with our existing women.

But actually I am mostly content and moreover . . . abhor the thought of ever having to start over !!!

The chase does have its excitement; but is also a royal PIA.

 
I liked very much the time I had been married but this time is over. 
Chasing is not the main PIA IMHO it's managing several dates at the same time trying to avoid some collision and how to leave them.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 02, 2020, 12:05:46 PM
So now I am packing to meet lady of Kiev that I should meet tomorrow in the same airport. Pat arranged both schedules so we will meet and kiss fewe times after planes had landed. 

Like ML completing all levels of the cans in the kitchen while different ladies where coming in the same appartment LOL 
I started to clean my phone and my computer and will finish in the plane.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 02, 2020, 12:20:55 PM
Now about the lady I met yesterday.
She can bed three men in three days easily. I don't know her character.
Maybe she will flake me for the meeting set in one week, who knows?
Like I went to this happy new year celebration, the best is to wait nothing now of her.

It's quite difficult to be neutral, to be enough neutral to be not surrounded by your own emotions,  by your lust, by your self limitations, beliefs, jealousy, insecurities. 
And of course you are telegraphing to this woman, because they are sensitive to this, all your internal disturbances during the meeting, and it even starts before you talk to her.

When you meet a HB like her in fact many many guys would not dare to even talk to her. And when you look her directly through her eyes many hours to dig in  her soul rather to gaze repeatdly her ass or her cleavage you setup an human perspective and that exactly what she is searching for. A CONNECTION.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 02, 2020, 12:41:05 PM
A common mistake men do is to be full of belief and also think for the women or in place of them.
Let me explain this.
 
Long time ago during my seduction workshop in Swiss I needed to order a drink in a very crowded bar an then I bumped in two young women between me and the barmaid. I had to talk to her to be in position to order.
Few seconds after someone was giving me some high fives and signs. A coach was looking at me and encouraging me to climb the ladder considering the signs of interest one of them were sending.
I would have never figured out that I could attract such young ladies : FALSE LIMITATION.Let the women decide if they like you or not. No matter your age, your look, your fortune, your level of education.
And that's exactly what happened during the happy new year celebration. I came without any expectation and no real idea to seduce her but all came comform to the game, very smooth.
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 02, 2020, 12:48:25 PM
Now about my buddy who missed his approach by sending three SMS very quickly just after he left her at two in the saturday night.   

What was his expectation? He expected to meet her because the following week end his son was back at home, he has a shared custody. 

So, are you going to tell to a lady : "I have a business trip from the 10 to the 14 and after I go in vacation from the 17 to the 14th with my daughter so I can only fuck you the 15 or 16 th." You laugh? 

But that's exactly how a man thinks, and my buddy taught like this, giving himself a lot of pressure. 

Is the woman concerned by this?
That's not her problem. You talked with her 30 minutes, no relationship but now you already start to push on her with your problems.
Come on, that's not gonna to work.

Many men often cannot get out of the box and embrace a more sized world.
What an advantage when you can make your internal world with their.
And when you can leave all those toxic things that this world have injected to you, BS, morale, beliefs.
May you become really yourself?
That's should be the completion of a life no, in a way?


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 02, 2020, 02:34:33 PM
So now we have officialy four women, for the moment to manage.
Nothing dangerous however, considering that I have for the moment serious relationship with any.
I had sent a SMS to HB9 yesterday late, she has just answered. So the game continues.

Should I answer right now? Surely not. In my culture, you are busy and I am, I am finishing packing. And in the next days I will be busy.
I tuned Whatsapp without notifications, it works.
I am organizing all to be quiet and enjoy my time abroad. 
Lady of Kiev is quite excited I think and start to make more and more jokes with me, She is smart, probably smart as my ex wife and as many FSU they can surprise you any time, and that why we love them so much, because they can surprise us, more than the local ones who are used too.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 02, 2020, 02:55:40 PM
I am used  to the 7+ and more often the 8 galaxy (my wife was a 8.4) but around 9 I have rarely managed this type of women.
So for me it's like a anthropologic experience, It's not that lady of Kiev is not beautiful, my female friend who had a night club for two decades saw her photos and told me that she is very beautiful. Mid fourties or early photos. 
HB9 is probably ten years less.

That's interesting to understand what her universe is.
 Spending half of the night with her she opened and answered to her phone in front of me, front is a little far, often we were into another. In fact she didn't have so much incoming messages (all of this is a qualification) and few incoming, very few incoming calls. 

Maybe they are facing more than others a real loneliness? 
Those women could be considered, by more than usual people, as bitches.
Oh my God I don't like this word. Why? Jealousy, total misunderstanding and worse,  willingness to not be empathic with this type of women. Because you consider that beauty is everything?

I saw no no such signs in this lady, she is deeply rooted with the french culture and with the secular french republic. And she comes not from the low level society, she speaks a better english than me, her accent is superb, mine is shit comparing both.

I am interested to really deep into the personality and history of people. With the lady of Kiev what is frustrating me (us? because she is surely facing the same problem) is that I would know so much about her family, friends and so on, but we are facing the problem of language, even if we are helped by translators and even if I have some profiency. It would take time and the few days that we will share together will help.

I want also to explore every square inch of her body.
And surround her of all my tenderness.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 02, 2020, 03:27:02 PM
After if all is still fine I have to prepare the date with HB9.
I have the difficult mission to find a restaurant, if possible one I can seat at 45° degrees from her or on the same bench so I can kino her any time.A restaurant not so far from a place where we can dance or drink in a nice bar. Or a restaurant, a bar, and dancing. Three locations, and maybee she would me to bring her to a fourth location : her flat or my house.
 In such situation you could'nt do less than you did during the first appointment.
You have to have a focus, climb the ladder. A real woman waits a real man and the job to be done.
At least I have to kiss her.

but finally all should be flexible, I mean in a way the job should be done, but IN YOUR HEAD the best is not give a shit to all of this and it works, I mean you could be amazed how women can help to climb the ladder.
During the happy new year celebration I told her "if we eat such sweet dessert we would not be able to hold hands, I have to go soon to wash my hands". She answered "don't worry we can suck our fingers". 


The conquest is nothing, the experience is the divine essence 
We own nothing we own nobody
We only gather our soul trying not be a fool
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on January 02, 2020, 04:26:58 PM
Pat..

You are losing the plot


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on January 02, 2020, 04:54:30 PM
I was thinking the same thing. His posts are becoming more lucid than krimster's musings.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 06, 2020, 03:35:40 AM


I asked my friend some update about this lady.
He told me no news.
I wrote to him that it was absolutely normal and he should proceed to the last sms in the evening of the 1st january.   

Hope that she will answer  :popcorn:
So He did exactly what I told him, wait a full day after the first january, wish her an happy new year and propose her two appointments with two different locations.And he got her back on the track, she agreed for one of the two options.

But he started to mess all again by asking her something like "should have been not too rude with you?" something like that.  :rolleyes:

And the day after understanding that she has agreed to meet he started to propose an other appointment earlier.  >:D :deadhorse:.
I told him this lady is interested in you she is gentle and encourages you through her answers. Stop to justify you, excuse yourself and so on.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 07, 2020, 11:01:46 AM

 Mid fourties or early photos. 



A very interesting age range !!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 07, 2020, 11:12:26 AM

So, are you going to tell to a lady : "I have a business trip from the 10 to the 14 and after I go in vacation from the 17 to the 19th with my daughter, so I can only fuck you the 15 or 16th." You laugh? 

Sounds reasonable to me.

Reminds me of  Gérard Depardieu's first words to Bebe Neuwirth (friend of Andie MacDowell) when they met in "Green Card."
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 07, 2020, 11:14:34 AM
So now we have officialy four women, for the moment to manage.

Piker !!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 07, 2020, 11:24:01 AM
So now I am packing to meet lady of Kiev that I should meet tomorrow in the same airport. Pat arranged both schedules so we will meet and kiss fewe times after planes had landed. 

Like ML completing all levels of the cans in the kitchen while different ladies where coming in the same apartment LOL 
I started to clean my phone and my computer and will finish in the plane.

Good Luck Pat.

Attention to detail is critical.

But almost impossible to completely clean a computer or phone.
Items are stored in so many places (even if you took no action to put them there), and will often pop up on screen unexpectedly.
Should never let anyone use your phone or computer.

And, remember that much is stored in your browser history also.

Back in the day . . . I was using computer in Internet Cafe in FSU.  There used to be tons of them before many got their own computers and Internet connections at their home.

Woman I was with arrived and came up to me.

Suddenly a screen popped up with 5 or 6  young gay men naked with erections and shaved pubic area.

She probably never really believed that I had not been looking at that site.

We called the manager over, and he did something to delete that screen as it was stuck there.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on January 07, 2020, 12:55:47 PM
Funny you should say that, ML.   When my girlfriend of two years ago moved into my home, she went through my personal computer and my phone to determine who I had been with.   I thought I had cleaned everything, but she found a picture that was sent to me of the lady who took care of my dogs (so I would know who she was when she arrived).   She claimed that I had relations with that woman.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 07, 2020, 01:41:01 PM
She claimed that I had relations with that woman. 

Well you did have a doggie relationship with the woman.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 09, 2020, 02:23:11 AM
I was thinking the same thing. His posts are becoming more lucid than krimster's musings.
I don't get it, may you give me more informations?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 09, 2020, 02:31:10 AM
Good Luck Pat.

Attention to detail is critical.

But almost impossible to completely clean a computer or phone.
Items are stored in so many places (even if you took no action to put them there), and will often pop up on screen unexpectedly.
Should never let anyone use your phone or computer.

And, remember that much is stored in your browser history also.

Back in the day . . . I was using computer in Internet Cafe in FSU.  There used to be tons of them before many got their own computers and Internet connections at their home.

Woman I was with arrived and came up to me.

Suddenly a screen popped up with 5 or 6  young gay men naked with erections and shaved pubic area.

She probably never really believed that I had not been looking at that site.

We called the manager over, and he did something to delete that screen as it was stuck there.
You are perfectly right.

Lady of Kiev and I were constantly using our phones and cross crossing each of them in our hands. Very dangerous !!!!But that's how it worked and you cannot say "I am afraid that Mistress 3 calls while you are looking google map so I cannot let to play with my phone". 

I forgot some historic, not on my computer, buy on my mobile phone, and especially historic of translation on Google and Yandex translate. That can be an instant kill. Because of course I use it a lot with every FSU woman.
So I will be more aware next time and will work harder.
The good thing is that RWD is working on a navigator without historic, so ne fear. 

Globally I performed well, well enough to not be caught. 

ML is right, if you want to be a perfect multi lover 3.0 you should be very professional with details. Fortunately I have some skills in IT.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 09, 2020, 02:33:03 AM
ML
 
I also remind this time when they were plenty of internet coffee in Europe and in Ukraine, they were very popular and cheap. 
It has gone now.
Maybe still some places for video gamers?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 09, 2020, 02:39:18 AM
Funny you should say that, ML.   When my girlfriend of two years ago moved into my home, she went through my personal computer and my phone to determine who I had been with.   I thought I had cleaned everything, but she found a picture that was sent to me of the lady who took care of my dogs (so I would know who she was when she arrived).   She claimed that I had relations with that woman.   :rolleyes:
I think that's a standard with FSU women.
They would search any previous competitor and will shame to the end of the eternity, even after death.

My ex wife was damned jealous for two years of my previous ex bielorussian girlfriend and one time she started to furiously delete any photos she found on my mobile phone in a restaurant. She was angry and I had to told her "I had a life, pretty rich, before you, why I should go through all my belongings to jettison or delete any others supports linked to all over possible women ?????"  :rolleyes: But many would like you to erase all  :ROFL: :deadhorse:


With lady of Kiev, she was quite surprised to see almost no photo of me and no photos of other women when I showed many photos of my past (filtered of course).
Why should I make this woman annoyed? I don't want.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 09, 2020, 02:49:48 AM
So I am just back from my trip with lady of Kiev (few days). 

While I was retrieving my luggage at the airport yesterday evening a message from mistress dropped on my phone. 
That was a  copy of her train ticket showing that she was landing in my city at the same time than me.
And she wanted to see me asap. 

I called her and was too damned tired to perform different stunts on her body just after my arrival in France. 
Especially considering that we had a hald night without sleeping with lady of Kiev 12 hours before. 

And additionnaly I have to setup the rendez vous with HB9 for tomorrow. 

But maybe will manage anyway tonight to adress all my respects to mistress' popka, we will see. 

About the second lady in Ukraine I think I will drop her. The communication starts to be loose and the best is to let it loose more and more so the mutual interest slows down to zero.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 09, 2020, 03:00:10 AM
I liked my trip with lady of Kiev.
I like this woman but the charm and stars have a little disappear since.
I am very cautious and wait time to see how our personallities could match.
For the moment that's not so bad.
We are also experimented adults and know how to throw off ballast when necessary.
I got few compliments back to my country and she recognises that she is a little capricious. I am sometimes maybe be stubborn but like many FSU women also is she.
Physically I cannot complain, we started to work on our intimacy few hours after our arrival and are not disappointed about our communication in this topic.
She is damned smart, I comfirm.
And also she is a cultivated lady. 

We had a little fight day2 and needed to recalibrated. She took all what I said in account. So when you are both working (me too I worked to adapt of course) that's good.

There are some things that she needs to be excused.
She is not used to be with a western man. And even if she has traveled a lot that was only for tourism purposes. 
So of course you will have some fight about, who is showing the way when aiming a location? Which restaurant to choose? Is oil or butter better to cook? All this little things of the real and daily life. 
 
I would say it is not important how you travel and exactly where you go or what you accomplish, the most important is what you are both sharing as emotional experience during the travel.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 09, 2020, 07:18:30 AM
So now mistress is in the city and wants to meet,Why not ?

There are some parts of her that are interesting to see. 

I called HB9 but don't know if she will come alive or not. 

Anyway the world couldn't be scheduled any minute like you want, it will be too boring. 

That's part of the excitment.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 09, 2020, 07:24:41 AM
The fourth lady, second FSU women in Ukraine came alive after I didn't contact her for two or three days. I will answer something, slowing the pace carefully.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 09, 2020, 09:48:37 AM
We met some FSU people where we were, especially a young couple from north Ossetia doing a whole trip or Europe by car. He was very tall and and athlete. She was a brunette with stunning eyes and asked a question to my lady. 

At a moment, the conversation was going on,  I wanted to show her a map of some attractions but lady of Kiev prevented me to do this. Telling me that it was her spouse. You can see the difference of culture here.

As a western couple you will not have any problem to interact with the woman. But here better to not do it, your lady will not like it or the husband of the other couple will not like it.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on January 09, 2020, 10:20:49 AM
Let's pause for a mo..

IF we knew a lady was playing Pat's 'game' what would we be calling her and advising the poor sap on the end of such treatment ...?


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 09, 2020, 10:53:23 AM
Pat, thanks for bringing us more up to date on your recent trip to meet Kyiv woman.
We need a lot more details of what you did on a day to day basis.
What primarily caused the "charm and stars have a little disappear" ??

And what does the 9 refer to in HB9?  Is it that you rate her a 9 on the 1-10 scale?
I guess HB means Hot Babe.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 09, 2020, 11:19:23 AM

IF we knew a lady was playing Pat's 'game' what would we be calling her . . .

A wise and rational woman.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on January 09, 2020, 01:44:50 PM
'Koneshno'

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 10, 2020, 05:37:54 AM
Let's pause for a mo..

IF we knew a lady was playing Pat's 'game' what would we be calling her and advising the poor sap on the end of such treatment ...?

I am just copying what many women are doing for the sacre of the eternity, so don't worry.
 The only difference is I come here and tell the truth while they all claim they are all saintes.
You will extremely rarely find a woman telling about her games, but doesn't mean that she don't play it  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 10, 2020, 05:44:47 AM
So yesterday I picked up mistress late in the evening.
She was very relaxed and started to make some massages on me in the car.
I had to severly fix my attention to the other cars to avoid a crash and to the radars to avoid to be fined.
As a result the connecting time between the garage and the bed was minimal when arriving in my house. 
 
Finally we got out of the bed and I decided to cook something turn the music on with the color disco spots and we started to have a party midnight. 
 
I shaked again her popka and we started to sleep, with a little interrupation to welcome the sunlight.
 
It is clear that mistress is more tender and kiss better than lady of Kiev. She gave me a long full massage mid night also that was extatic. 
 
However she will never be more than a mistress for strictly casual time.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 10, 2020, 05:52:03 AM
I contacted HB9 yesterday dropping a message on her voicemail for our appointment tonight.
I also booked two seats on a nice restaurant I know for tonight. 

But since the beginning of the week no news.   

The chances that this rendez vous got flat are skyrocketting now.   
 
We will know more very soon. 

This why I confirmed rendez vous with mistress. Typically more women around you and less you care if one is disappearing, that exactly what women do with the pool system. To the point that some don't even need to susbcribe to dating sites and go to some parties.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 10, 2020, 11:59:22 AM
After some rebounds of last minute, I am dressing now to go to have a diner with HB9, but directly at the restaurant.
HB means effectively hot baby ML
And 9 means a very hot woman in the scale of Pat beauty, who rarely gives such a score to a woman, especially a french one. 

I will give more details later, but in terms of game this is not the ideal meeting you want.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 10, 2020, 12:01:33 PM
Message of mistress of today after the crazy full cavalcade of this night :
"I have spent awesome time together, thanks for good respectful behavior".
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on January 10, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
She gave me a long full massage mid night also that was extatic. 
 

It's great to hear stories with a happy ending.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on January 10, 2020, 02:25:17 PM
I don't get it, may you give me more informations?
I know that English is not your native language, but your posts were becoming more and more difficult to understand. It was sort of like you were drunk when you wrote the posts.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on January 10, 2020, 02:27:23 PM
IF we knew a lady was playing Pat's 'game' what would we be calling her and advising the poor sap on the end of such treatment ...?
Live by the sword, die by the sword.

I mean - come on, he's screwing a married woman. His sensibilities are transparent.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 10, 2020, 04:14:02 PM
I know that English is not your native language, but your posts were becoming more and more difficult to understand. It was sort of like you were drunk when you wrote the posts.
No I don't drunk lol or quite rarely.
The multiplicity of what happens cannot produce a linear history.

And they are many reasons to that. 
First a trip is interactive with posters coming back and forth, second I wrote personal thinking that are independant of the story, three I add poetry and others medias, four sometimes I cannot keep the history linear because I cannot come here for few days and or consider that's more important to drop my present feeling or thinking before fueling the calendar history.
And to finish yes english is not my native language. 
 
So this trip report is more a life decade report, a blog, but unfortunately there is no menu to navigate in it.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 10, 2020, 04:37:41 PM
Live by the sword, die by the sword.

I mean - come on, he's screwing a married woman. His sensibilities are transparent.
No she is screwing her marriage. 

My transparent sensibilities are first of all the fruit of your personal morale judgment

Why do you bring all the responsability on the man?

I already previously wrote that, for various reasons, married women are not my target usually, not happened during 25 years to be frank.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 10, 2020, 04:42:57 PM
It's great to hear stories with a happy ending.
Lol the exact word is ecstatic

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 10, 2020, 04:57:59 PM
So finally I just come back with my date with HB9.

I did all like a train launched at 100 MPH with her.

I wrote to her to say hello in the beginning of the week.I call her yesterday to tell her the schedule.
I booked the restaurant yesterday.And finally sent a SMS summing all and offering a door if she finally decide to not come. 

I prepared myself before gotting one hour of sleep after the previous crazy night.
When I woke up I saw the SMS of HB9, 45 minutes before our rendez vous.

CANCELLED to make it short. No big deal, already ready for all possibilities.

So I went downstairs because I had something to do in the garage and when back two minutes later I noticed an incoming call of HB9 that I didn't ring because I hadn't remove the silent mode.
Strange, but in one way that call showed that she was less scatterbrained than her sms let believe.
So I called her back, no answer. I let it go.She called me again two minutes later, and we finally could talk to each other after 10 days of interval.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 10, 2020, 05:09:09 PM
She told me that she was exhausted of her whole week but she worried about our appointment. She asked me when the restaurant was waiting us.
And by herself told me that she will go directly there a little later, she needed to have a shower first. And after she will leave the restaurant to go in the big city
Finally she asked me the adress of the restaurant.

I agreed to send her the adress of the restaurant, which i did 15 minutes later.
So as I have guessed with some anticipation, my rendez vous was loosing some consistancy.
We will not travelled in the same car and the appointment will be limited to the restaurant.
So impossible to escalate the ladder because no multiple location movment

But I was also happy to see her and to be able to get back my bed not to late.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 10, 2020, 05:32:29 PM
So finally we have what Pat believes about HB9 and what her life is really is.
Quite interesting, that is named reality distorsion.

Pat believed that she was not really interested to meet and used an easy excuse to not come
In fact she has to drive all the day for her job, her job is quite physical, she has to manage two eventually three kids at home when they are not with the fatherShe has some health problems from one year, balance disorder and problems in the ears. Something that I consider personnaly possible as a consequence of a tumor, that's quite frightening.
                         
Pat was believing that she was a party girl, and that she likes to dance very usually (we have many people who love to dance in my region and who are totally passioned), so I was believing that she will go to join some people to party after the restaurant
She don't like to go out, not so much, don't like to stay up late and she is just joining her family tonight to jump in a bed and sleep as much as possible because she usually sleeps 5/6 hours during the week but needs more 8/10 hours saturday sunday. She likes, most of the time spends time at home.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 10, 2020, 05:49:55 PM
So you have this amazing brunette in front of you, and she is totally out of energy.
There is anything really you can do.
Just listen her, entertain her, provide her a good time, a good meal, pour her drink.
Try to understand her daily life, full of real pressures.
Make this two hours and half the most comfortable for her.
Make the end of the diner a little shorter so she can go to sleep asap.

Put gently and lightly your hand on her shoulder when you get out of the restaurant.
Escort her to her car on this desert parking.
Turning your head largely to show that you don't try to take advantage of her (trying to force her for a kiss) and hug her few seconds with tenderness and let set her free.

And finally back at home you write to HB9 :
I hope that you have got back safely to your place. I am conscious of the honor that you gave to me tonight considering your very low level of energy. We learn to know each other, I appreciate. I am very concerned that you feel good. Patagonie

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 10, 2020, 07:49:30 PM
HB9 gal.  Sounds interesting yet complicated.

So she has 2 or 3 children of her own; is there a question about how many ?
Perhaps 2 and a half.

I remember once meeting a gal who took bus in from out of town.
We had a good exchange of messages and her profile mentioned a 17 year old son, which was OK with me.
When with me she received many messages from a son.
It was revealed that he was 10 and the second son.
When I mentioned that her profile only indicated the 17 year old; she replied that she had 'forgotten' about the 10 year old.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 10, 2020, 11:50:43 PM
HB9 gal.  Sounds interesting yet complicated.

So she has 2 or 3 children of her own; is there a question about how many ?
Perhaps 2 and a half.

I remember once meeting a gal who took bus in from out of town.
We had a good exchange of messages and her profile mentioned a 17 year old son, which was OK with me.
When with me she received many messages from a son.
It was revealed that he was 10 and the second son.
When I mentioned that her profile only indicated the 17 year old; she replied that she had 'forgotten' about the 10 year old.
You nailed it ML.

I remember that she talked to me of her daughter of 18, her son of 8 (if I remember correctly) and that's all during the happy new year.
But now the story is clearly that there is a third child, and this one seems to be 2 or 3.
 
So it changes some perspectives as you can guess.
With time I have realized that women try to show you a certain way of life, omitting clearly to tell you a lot of things, some or many could be challenging a future (I suppose that many men do the same of course).
 
So HB9 has two main problems. she has suffered from jobs unskilled because she never had a profession (knowing her age she had her daughter around 16/17 which screws up a little bit your chances to have one),And she manages three childs, one very young, and considering the age of the last kid and the time she split with the father, I would be not surprised if she decided to have this one against the opinion of the man.
It's clear that with this type of woman it's time for me to run for a vasectomy.
 
So what is fascinating is to listen people and as they give you more details you can understand what is their situation.
I have now a clear understanding of her financial situation. And she performs not so bad but I think that half or almost half of her money comes from the state and alimony given by fathers. So she is getting back a wage among the lowest of the market and this why she would try to become a teacher for the state.
 
I have no judgment about all of this, this is her personal story, I am quite admirative of how she seems to manage all, and I didn't hear her complaining.
Now the fact that she finally don't like to go out, has three kids, and spends a lot of time doing all the necessary basic stuff explains that she has some problem to succeed her sentimental life.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on January 12, 2020, 02:47:18 AM
My transparent sensibilities are first of all the fruit of your personal morale judgment

Why do you bring all the responsability on the man?

I already previously wrote that, for various reasons, married women are not my target usually, not happened during 25 years to be frank.
No, I did not pass moral judgment. I stated your morality is transparent.

I have a friend that is sleeping with three different women, including a married woman. I don't judge him, but he discloses this to all three women. So even though he has an adulteress as you do, his morals are different to yours.

I judge neither man, as I have no interest. But your actions represent your values.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 13, 2020, 09:17:05 AM
We have daily contact with Lady of Kiev and had a nice video chat saturday night. 
We start to go deeper in the connection and opening our dialogue and level of communication.
We work both on it, openly and slowly.
As a focal point we have a meeting in March normally. Her birthday should come around and I want to make her a surprise.
Lately I have to go to Ukraine in april normally.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 13, 2020, 09:23:18 AM
HB9 have stayed silent since friday night.

That's not a good sign even if circumstances are very harsh for her.
Most of all I dislike the fact that she not even said thank for the diner.
I don't care if she is a hot baby, if she could be Angelina Jolie or whoever.
But just say the word "thank" is a minimum, just when leaving the restaurant or one or two days after in a SMS.
 
 
We got here
a cold feet, Or buyer remorse (from her)
Or wrong tag on the product
or personal burn out.
I don't know yet exactly what is about 
 
 but I am not gonna to pursue her too much even if I have a lot of time and can play it easy on the calendar.
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 13, 2020, 01:41:50 PM
So we saw with Lady of Kiev two movies in russian, subtitles in french for me
I left her five days ago.
 
I cannot hide to you that I was nuts during five days in russian with her and we used most of the time our personal translators on our smartphones.
That was quite a shame for me but as the relationship was going ahead we needed more accurate communication. 
And I don't know why, but with this woman I don't understand a lot of things.
 I understand really less with her than others FSU women in general.
She maybe has the chic to use some sophisticated words that of course are not in my limitary vocabulary. 
 And moreover I think that her head is boiling of a million of ideas and things she wants to tell me, but we sometimes get nuts. At the end I think she more mad than me about it. 
 
Remember she don't speak any english nor french.
But willing to learn english.   
   
Don't worry I am confident that all is fine at the end, I have some training with FSU women who don't speak any common languages.
Each time I am lost in her words I fix with all my love her beautiful blue eyes hi svaya oulibka
Inevitably she asked me : ti panimaesch?
I answer da
And depending of how I say da she knows that I had got shit, or not enough to get all the sentence.
So she starts to open her smartphone and you see in the cold city two bystanders typing furiously on their smartphones, me less than her, because tired to be in this cold during our trip.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 13, 2020, 02:06:14 PM
So I had the pleasure and the privilege to watch two movies in russian with Lady of Kiev.
I liked very much to watch movies with my ex wife. And I start to feel that the difference with french ladies is a DIFFERENCE lol, I mean it's cultural. 
You are sharing more emotions, that's more festive. 
 
And Lady of Kiev showed me any cultural details, everything that I could have missed.
A real pleasure and a real privilege guys, my happiness was multiply by two or three.
you are in the bed with super blondinka and enjoying a piece of cake of the russian cinema.
Didn't have any complaint about this entertaining moment



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 13, 2020, 03:21:10 PM
Joke of the day at work.

I asked a female colleague I know at work and she also quite a friend to pay me a coffee to the first floor of the building.
As we were about to step in the stairs she wanted to offer me some ginger.
I told her : "thank no, it's very kind of you but I will got a big erection for the rest of the day (it was 10 AM) and will be not able to work at all" 
She couldn't climb the stairs the first seconds as she was LOL.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 13, 2020, 03:36:53 PM
First real line with HB9 the first january 2020
 
I remember a little more about what happened during the first minute with HB9.
I changed of room, from the bar to the antichambre and found her in front of the buffet.
I very likely talked about food, very common "lines", "opener"
AND
then, suddenly 
She asked me ? 
What do you do for a living?
The BS question that many women like to ask in France. 
 
So I have a line for this BS.
 
I often say :
We have begun a startup with a buddy,
We monitor little girls who are not quiet during the evenings or during nights. Some married women who worries to get in trouble when they are alone.... and so on (i takdalé)
 
And then nothing, she stared at me and didn't get the joke.
During few seconds she was totally taken aback

I had to smile and friendly touch her wrist gently saying, "I am teasing you" "that's a joke".
 
In this upper class neighbouring where we were spending the celebration, of course all the good guys would say their likely important position first hand.
BORING...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 13, 2020, 07:02:58 PM

I cannot hide to you that I was nuts during five days in Russian with her and we used most of the time our personal translators on our smartphones.

You have more fortitude than myself.
I would never spend so much time with someone under this circumstance; i.e. no common language.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 14, 2020, 04:43:55 AM
You have more fortitude than myself.
I would never spend so much time with someone under this circumstance; i.e. no common language.

 
I need a pause but will restart learning russian soon.
Yesterday I watched one movie in native russian with english subtitles.
I had the strong intention to not let go russian learning, at least at a conversational level (B1/B2 level).
Worth to notice that SHE has a lot of fortitude also, it means that Lady of Kiev likes me.  :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 14, 2020, 07:53:30 AM
HB9 have stayed silent since friday night.

That's not a good sign even if circumstances are very harsh for her.
Most of all I dislike the fact that she not even said thank for the diner.
I don't care if she is a hot baby, if she could be Angelina Jolie or whoever.
But just say the word "thank" is a minimum, just when leaving the restaurant or one or two days after in a SMS.
 
 
We got here
a cold feet, Or buyer remorse (from her)
Or wrong tag on the product
or personal burn out.
I don't know yet exactly what is about 
 
 but I am not gonna to pursue her too much even if I have a lot of time and can play it easy on the calendar.

 
HB9 is back on the track

Got a SMS this morning
Thank you Pat sorry for the late message, thank you for the invitation, it was very pleasant. 
So I cancel her moral debt  :truce:     
 
I swear that I did nothing, just letting the clock ticking.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 14, 2020, 09:04:36 AM
Buddy got his date but finally ended in the LJTBF
 
So I helped this guy to get back on track his date and he called me because she told him at the end that she wanted to be friend with him.
Clear message from a woman that nothing more will happen.
   
He however was confused because she sent him a message saying that she would like to meet him again.
I told him, ok if she talked to you about friendship, more than 95% it means this SMS is just to tell you that she would like to enter in your social circle NOTHING MORE. 
If you are not sure ask to her, she will confirm.   
He called me back the day after to tell me ok I am free with this woman, that's over.
 
I told him : that's not bad, you got her phone number, you set up a date, you met her and finally it didn't work, not so bad. YOu will perform better next time.
Now you can spend all your time with you son or at job and chase a new one, your mind being crystal clear.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 14, 2020, 09:24:36 AM
Mistress continues to try to squeeze out her piece of bread 
 
She tries to  push me telling that I miss her or I think to her. I make different writing stunts to never tell her something I of course don't think 
As I was speaking about incoming money maybe, she told me that I could sell my house  to buy an other one with a swimming pool and a garden. She has just manipulated her husband to buy a house (a big credit in fact) few months ago but those two characteristics are very likely missing and highly desired by her.
I told her that this shit was not gonna to happen.

For the price I would prefer to buy a sport car, many travels and to meet a bataillon of ukrainian pros if my sexual stamina was not satisfied with the women I meet or if my right hand (I am a righty yes) cannot help.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 14, 2020, 02:53:56 PM


For the price I would prefer to buy a sport car, many travels and to meet a bataillon of ukrainian pros if my sexual stamina was not satisfied with the women I meet or if my right hand (I am a righty yes) cannot help.

Have you tried 'switch hitting' like in USA baseball ??
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 14, 2020, 02:55:33 PM
she told me that I could sell my house  to buy an other one with a swimming pool and a garden.

One FSUW told me that I was living in the wrong state, and needed to relocate.

She had never been to USA; but she knew it all.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 15, 2020, 04:00:24 AM
One FSUW told me that I was living in the wrong state, and needed to relocate.

She had never been to USA; but she knew it all.
Yep we are here in the same order of magnitude.

She is 38 and very likely didn't work more than 5 years for basic low wages. The rest of her money comes from the state, parents and husband.

On an other hand I worked hard, managing one job and half to make it short, sometimes managing a third activity to get more money and worked without a stop from my 23. Later some inheritage helped me.
 
During all those years I started my life, I was not poor, but surely not well off,  I had crossed many people who had some nice real estate, sometimes even quite impressive, and far better than mine.
I lived part time  in many places owned by girlfriends who had more expansive or more impressive places than mine also. 
 
Yes sometimes in thoses condos or houses I could dislike the paint or whatever.
But you NEVER heard me opening my mouth about this.  NEVER made a comment or a reproach about this. NEVER.The only reason I could open my mouth is if some securty reasons are involved, risk of fire, water infiltration, or danger for people....
If someone tells me I consider to renovate the bathroom, "what do you think about painting all in blue, replacing the bathtub by a shower?", as I am invited to, I would give my personal opinion about this.
Else if I consider that people have the chance to own something more expansive, bigger, more well situated than me I am happy for them and if they invite me I am happy to enjoy what they offer to me. 
 
So this attitude of mistress makes me mad. 
Today, technicaly, by her own she can only pretend to rent a 25 square meters studio, maybe a 40 square meters if she gets some help of the state. 
So she don't own any amount of money to get such property I have AND she has no technical skills (don't know if she is ever capable to use a screwdriver) to DIY at home. Skills I have. 
   
It's certain that her husband discovered our part time fucking and I suspect that she used it to make pressure on  him to buy a house (ok I made a mistake but you have to change also, buy a house) even if she told me that he just wanted renting.
So what a trade off, she continues to fuck around and now he is totally hunged by the feet with this house and his marriage. What a trade off !!!!!!!  :deadhorse:   
So to come back to this woman trying to explore how easily I could be the clown she would like me to be, she has started to figure out that I am not of course.
She would have consider maybe to make a move out of her marriage if I were a clown but as I don't show any characteristic of the guy who will pick up her as a taxi driver tomorrow, buying the new house with swimming pool and garden.So she has sticked to her husband (for a while maybe, but the situation doesn't hurt because now she will get back more fruits whatever happens)
 
So to summarize, her various comments about my kitchen the wrong color,, the swimming pool not existant, the missing garden and so on  have an only unique answer :
SHUT YOUR MOUTH.
Or you submit to me a project with all the necessary quotes , If I approve it,  you pay all the bills to the companies  with your money and ok. 
 
To be frank I had with my ex wife no problem of this order. She was smart and quickly found out by herself that among all her acquaintacnes she was the one living in a top place compare to many others.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 15, 2020, 04:36:10 AM
HB9 step 3

One of the most exciting time, except kissing a woman, removing her bra, is to try to figure out how you could climb the ladder, which means to have a date.
So that's a little like cooking when you repeatdly try some new combinations, aromats, time of cooking, stove or oven, cover or not. A very rich combination of every day.  And maybe you will soon sit to  the table  and enjoy both your time, the sweetness of her fingers, the depthness of her puplis, the sligh pressure of her beast on your chest who knows... 
 
So I am going to play it more :
disposal vs confrontation.
Play it long vs play it strong
Rather than to call her saying we could go the restaurant A or restaurant B, tuesday or wednesday could be fine for me and forcing her for a decision (It's worth reminding that  from the scratch that I didn't hear making a real proposition since, except the date the 10th january she setup herself)
 
I prefer to play it long, to play it soft. 
 
Wich means (sent yesterday), send a SMS rather than to call her and have 75% to land on the vocal box. Written communication is better, less loss in communication, she can come back to it any time easily. 
 
So I told her, in one SMS : I go to restaurant X  (not explaining with whom éh hé hé) friday night. Else if come to take a drink at home or we can have a bowling, give me a sign, kisses, Sleep well.
 
So you put no pressure on her and she damned know that if she don't move her ass she will never see you again, so you are not needy. 
You have been a gentleman from the second ONE but you still let her know that you are a man and not wanting to show anything landing the relationship to the LJTBF (Let just to be friends) all this accordingly to her very low level of energy and little time available.
 
And you can do whatever you want during this time because there are no relationship, no hopes. It is just a file in the operating system. And it's really better to handle it at this level.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 15, 2020, 03:42:07 PM
Lady of Kiev last chat 

So for the first time of the beginning of you story she wrote "I miss you" 
 
We are debriefing our trip and of course our relationship. 
 
About the italian guy :  she told me she only saw him (confirmed) on video every two days prior going to Italy. 
 
She faced several problems with this man : he was sad most of the time, almost never smiling, very greedy (her words), the language barreer was insurmountable and he tried to train her for learning english but didn't hired a terp. He was speaking english very quickly but SHE don't speak almost any.     
 
Chemistry is very important for her, and she has really more with me than she had with this man, who treated her correctly however. 
   

So NEWBIES i remind you some datas why you should put your ass in a plane ASAP rather than to stroke your stick with your right hand and type on the keyboard with you left one. 
 
KIEV
woman in her early 40 solid 8 for her age 
On Badoo and an other site after 2 weeks started chatting with an italian guy 
Italian guy invites her between 6 and 10 days after for a trip all included 
Pat arrived J+15 after italian guy, she went to Italy just after
others outsiders unknown including locals one 
Woman actually normally out of the dating market now. In relationship.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 16, 2020, 02:59:56 AM
So I have a little present for you, it's not that I am crazy about those videos but I rarely found a man who don't like
 
ithttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQv6diJw-Bw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQv6diJw-Bw).

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 16, 2020, 03:33:36 AM
The increasing misandry is on way, it's time to fight back, word after word

Ihave been recently the indirect or direct victim last two months of two sexual discriminations from women.
 
The first one happened during a big meeting of 120 people. A top executive women of our company was speaking in the microphone and interrupted the debates for a pause stating something like "it's time for men to help themselves with their prostates".   
 Coming from a top executive, only aimed toward men that's misandry.   
And it starts by some little words, in front of the public. 
I will never in public, in debates,  tell something like this  myself about women.
I personally strongly disappove such type of behavior whoever is the victim,  in public or professional sphere or private when people don't know each other (dark humour is an other thing).



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SteveInBoston on January 16, 2020, 04:28:41 AM
Hi Pat,

Maybe there is something lost in the translation.  Isn't prostrate cancer predominately in men and only extremely rarely in women?  So, in this case, isn't she right in calling out men only? 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 16, 2020, 06:14:53 AM
Hi Pat,

Maybe there is something lost in the translation.  Isn't prostrate cancer predominately in men and only extremely rarely in women?  So, in this case, isn't she right in calling out men only? 

 
Hi Steve, that's always difficult to translate all nuances in an other language.
 
 This is not about cancer.
This is about telling that men are dysfunctional in their urinary system and so they need a mandatory pause to pee. It was said towards men.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 16, 2020, 07:38:04 AM
The increasing misandry is on way, it's time to fight back, word after word
 
The second time it was one week ago after boarding the plane to go home.
The plane was totally crowded but just in front of my nose three seats were empty.  I stand up and reach one seat, Few seconds after one hostess came an told me "you cannot seat here, it's forbidden for the take off because of the plane center gravity. 
 
I obeyed and said absolutely nothing. While back in my seat I thaught "strange, I know a lot about aerodynamics and this not 75 kd moving one meter forward that will change something. 
 
I was not in my seat for 3 minutes than a woman jumped in one of the three available seats. 
 
I was not happy. 
 
The hostess came back, I told her "you prevent me to seat here but now there is a woman who came and changed of seat, I don't understand"
She answered that her seat was broken and she need to change. The seats just needs to be free for the take off.
 
So now IMHO we have two lies, I have never boarded on a plane with a seat broken that's not existing for security reasons, we are not in a bus in Africa.
I stayed polite and didn't raise my voice. I just told her that she could had tell me that I could have moved just after the take off, she didn't apologize and didn't take care about how i could feel.
 
After few time I aimed directly to see the chief cabin crew. 
I asked him, what's the name of the young hostess with some glasses? 
He told me "what the problem is?"
 
Sexual discrimination I answered.
At the millisecond I finished to prononce those two words he knew that was damned serious.
I was in the move to make  a claim to the company at least.
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 16, 2020, 08:00:14 AM
The increasing misandry is on way, it's time to fight back, word after word

So I explained him what happened, and he told me that he could understand my concern. He promised me to come back to see me.

He was working with the first class and then came to talk to the hostess. I knew that he talked to to her a long time because I was in rearest seats of the plane.

He came to tell me : "so what happened is that an other hostess allows this woman for medical problem to change of seat and the first hostess was not aware of this. Effectively the seats in front of you are normally not allowed to be seated as yo can see on this tablet (he showed me a computer). I apologize for the problem, would like me to ask her to come and to apologize? "
I told him that I was not here to fight (and no real intention to humiliate this hostess)" 
May I offer you a coffee? " 
"Yes" 
I accepted all what he told and had no wish to discuss it could be true or it could be false.
He managed all the issue very professionaly.   
So till the rest of the flight this hostess never came back in the cabin letting her colleagues to handle the whole job. Even during the long time people were exiting she didn't even leave her seat and stayed hidden. 
 
I suppose that she steeply realized that sexism is not only just for men but the table can easily turn of 180 degres and suddenly you become the perpretor rather than to be the victim. Circumstances can affect life quite  quickly
And so very suddenly she realized all the consequences. She could face disciplinary problems and can even loose not only her job but could be forbid to practice it. She could face a prosecution and maybe a trial, a real PIA.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 16, 2020, 09:43:02 AM
We are in France facing an increasing spiral of accusations, recently an black attorney and again a casting director
 
It belongs to the justice to get out the truth and to apply the according sentences when necessary to the culprits
   
But the problem is : 
 
1/ We already know that the justice is far to give a give a sentence 100% of time. Far from 100%, end of  law suits, exoneration, preventive detention cancelled ....
 
2/ The last trend before any investigation is that the supposed perpretor is out of business, forbidden to work. As soon as the accusations starts. It's already extremely difficult for someone involved in a criminal investigation to go through so if he additionnaly  lost his job from the scratch.......   
   
3/ Due to the nature of the accusations most of the time, they are devastating because they come with no material proofs, words only.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 16, 2020, 10:24:12 AM
Conversion to God from roosh (lol)
 
So today comes to my surprise the information that roosh a guy who wrote many books about how to bang in country A B C D E F G ... has converted to God.
 This guy has alwasy been a liar (he had been confronted in Kiev on TV show with his supposed conquests who never met him) and is a controversial blogger that animated forums for men. 
His conversion is quite suspicious and very likely he did it because Amazone, Paypal started to block money to fuel him and is also facing some serious public dismiss. 
 
 However some topics from those forums are interesting to read sometimes even if it gathers some weirdos (I found more weirdos in the red pill forums however). 
 
So I have a very low esteem for this guy but through different press article I found out a very questionable and worrying concern, showing the inaccuracy of what medias are writing. 
 
He is repeatdly cited as a pick up artist.  false statement
He has never been and that is because he use some very controversial ways to bang girls as pourring drinks so they get drunk. If he had been so successful in banging in America he would had never needed to travel abroad as he was only interested in banging.
He has never been and the best proof is that is still living with Mum and considering the time he has travelled his number of conquests is anormaly low.
In all the communities or real pua guys, and especially coaches, this guy is never cited and has never been part of the community. 
When you analyze what he writes this guy is a shame for the community. 
 
He brags and lie. Many would call him a sort of idiot.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 16, 2020, 12:58:28 PM
So I have a little present for you, it's not that I am crazy about those videos but I rarely found a man who don't like
 
ithttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQv6diJw-Bw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQv6diJw-Bw).

Truly amazing bodies.  Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: JayH on January 16, 2020, 03:33:28 PM
Conversion to God from roosh (lol)
 
So today comes to my surprise the information that roosh a guy who wrote many books about how to bang in country A B C D E F G ... has converted to God.
 This guy has alwasy been a liar (he had been confronted in Kiev on TV show with his supposed conquests who never met him) and is a controversial blogger that animated forums for men. 
His conversion is quite suspicious and very likely he did it because Amazone, Paypal started to block money to fuel him and is also facing some serious public dismiss. 
 
 However some topics from those forums are interesting to read sometimes even if it gathers some weirdos (I found more weirdos in the red pill forums however). 
 
So I have a very low esteem for this guy but through different press article I found out a very questionable and worrying concern, showing the inaccuracy of what medias are writing. 
 
He is repeatdly cited as a pick up artist.  false statement
He has never been and that is because he use some very controversial ways to bang girls as pourring drinks so they get drunk. If he had been so successful in banging in America he would had never needed to travel abroad as he was only interested in banging.
He has never been and the best proof is that is still living with Mum and considering the time he has travelled his number of conquests is anormaly low.
In all the communities or real pua guys, and especially coaches, this guy is never cited and has never been part of the community. 
When you analyze what he writes this guy is a shame for the community. 
 
He brags and lie. Many would call him a sort of idiot.

The problem with drawing attention to Roosh is that  fools here like Trenchcoat believe him and his bs. There have been others  come to the forum  who think they can emulate his supposed deeds.He and his vids are very much yesterdays news -- he was a fraud and is a fraud.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on January 16, 2020, 03:38:54 PM
In this upper class neighbouring where we were spending the celebration, of course all the good guys would say their likely important position first hand.
BORING...


This is very much a part of FSU culture, as is the "demand" for respect for an "important" position. 

If you plan to live there, get used to this.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 17, 2020, 03:30:29 AM
The problem with drawing attention to Roosh is that  fools here like Trenchcoat believe him and his bs. There have been others  come to the forum  who think they can emulate his supposed deeds.He and his vids are very much yesterdays news -- he was a fraud and is a fraud.
I have explained what I think about this man. 
 
What is interesting to see is that sites he has opened are showing a protest mouvement revealing among men a growing frustration
This social trend is interesting to observe, and rather to bash them globally as the medias do, it would be interesting to find out why those sites know a large traffic. But I found any of those questions through the medias.
 
The second thing to worry is know states or officials (like mayors) start to to take some decision without any trials from a court to restrain the move of some people, even if they are controversial. 
 
Excuse me but I see a large disparity between now a global official hate speech on men (state and medias) while the "private"controversial speeches on women should be prevented.
To which point is it healthy for a democraty to prevent free speech ?

Concerning Trench,

Trench this guy Roosh has never been a pua. There are already enough materials to read so you don't have to buy his last book game (the name of the book disturb me as an other book on the same topic is already existing).
 
I have already told you that you cannot avoid to improve yourself on the local scene and international dating is not a substitute for NO dating. Only international dating with pros (this is not dating, this is prostitution) is the only way to fulfill this unreal idea.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 17, 2020, 03:46:37 AM

This is very much a part of FSU culture, as is the "demand" for respect for an "important" position. 

If you plan to live there, get used to this.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Dating art knows some slighty differences between the eastern and western scene. 
 
However the statement you made is barely the same for the western scene, I could rephrase your post writingTHis is a large part of the western culture, as is the demand for respect for an "important" position. It also exists in the west, maybe not in the exact same proportion. 
 
And this is why the prevalence of the "position" of a man has a strong influence in the mating search. It explains why the art of the game has some limitations due to the importance of position, position highly wanted by most of the women (at least 50%).   
And this is still working even when women are themselves in high position, they would search upper positioned men because this is how it works in the connected world of women searching men.   
 
It explains why so many men are using their position (the most visible being the economical power) in a way or an other when they have a real one (not all men do such a thing fortunately and many shouldn't for many reasons) because they know that they will get off the usual women screening and top over.   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 17, 2020, 06:24:54 AM
American Adults (18-30) Not Having Sex Has Reached a Record High Washington Post
   
The number of men not having sex the past year has tripled last decade why this numeral has double for women. 
Why this numeral has so increase for young men, in an outstanding proportion? 
The reasons given by journalists are FAR FAR to be complete and accurate IMHO.       

http://www.sciencealert.com/the-percentage-of-americans-not-having-sex-has-reached-a-record-high (http://www.sciencealert.com/the-percentage-of-americans-not-having-sex-has-reached-a-record-high)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 17, 2020, 06:59:59 AM
Sexual modern recession

An interesting well written and very documented article to be read : 
   
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/12/the-sex-recession/573949/
 (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/12/the-sex-recession/573949/)
Except a passage about  of childhood sexual abuse that is supposed to explain this recession because abuse was generating a promiscuous sexual behavior. As this abuse has decreased so less sex is the result. That's ankward. 
 

Passage that Trench should write (and many people) on the door of their fridge :

"We hook up because we have no social skills and we have no social skills because we hook up."
I have always been a firm believer of this passage and it's far far more difficult to kick his ass out of the house, go to a party and try to open a woman than open a site of porno on internet   
Out of the spectrum of Roosh, the classical dating science (standard game) is an answer to improve relationship to the benefit of both man and women, even if men have to make the move rather than women because this is their traditionnal role.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 17, 2020, 08:43:27 AM

The reasons given by journalists are FAR FAR to be complete and accurate IMHO.       


OK, so what are the reasons as you see it ?

Also, the studies probably are focused only on sex with a partner.
With the plethora of sexy women available for viewing on the internet, men (and women) can pleasure themselves as much as they want.
Vibrators and the like make it so easy (and mess free) for women to attain sexual pleasure, that the need for a partner is greatly reduced.
Sure I know that there is a lot of pleasure from contact with another human, but sexual release can be had with one's self; and then go cuddle and watch a movie with another person.
So probably sexual release has not declined; just such with partners.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on January 17, 2020, 06:00:14 PM
Dating art knows some slighty differences between the eastern and western scene. 

I'm not referring to dating.
 
Quote
However the statement you made is barely the same for the western scene, I could rephrase your post writingTHis is a large part of the western culture, as is the demand for respect for an "important" position. It also exists in the west, maybe not in the exact same proportion. 

You again prove my initial point.  In the West, generally, there is no demand for respect based on your employment.  Normal people in the West do not expect others to fawn over them because of their position.  But they do in the FSU.
 
Quote
And this is why the prevalence of the "position" of a man has a strong influence in the mating search. It explains why the art of the game has some limitations due to the importance of position, position highly wanted by most of the women (at least 50%).   
And this is still working even when women are themselves in high position, they would search upper positioned men because this is how it works in the connected world of women searching men.   

That has nothing to do with "position" and everything to do with money. 

I have a client who owns a successful plumbing company.  He's worth upwards of $50 million.  Has women chasing him all the time, although by societal standards, he is not in a "high position".  He's a plumber.  But, a very rich one.

In the West, the vast majority of young women seek out men of similar age.  They may screen for "potential", but that's different than position.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 17, 2020, 06:31:40 PM
Normal people in the West do not expect others to fawn over them because of their position.  But they do in the FSU.
And in Japan as well ;). Their verbs have a a number of forms, including the nai (plain) and the masu (polite, respectful), the latter mandatory when addressing a person of higher status.

Thus when a Japanese speaks, he/she immediately qualifies his/her social position vis-à-vis the addressee ::).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 17, 2020, 09:04:30 PM

You again prove my initial point.  In the West, generally, there is no demand for respect based on your employment.  Normal people in the West do not expect others to fawn over them because of their position.  But they do in the FSU.

Wife was initially perplexed (and maybe still is) by my friendly interaction with blue collar workers.

She told they were not at my 'level.'

On the other hand she was happy when a retired judge bought a building lot from me and a country school superintendent bought another parcel.  She said they were at my 'level' so would make more interesting people for me to talk with.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 17, 2020, 09:06:57 PM
And in Japan as well ;). Their verbs have a a number of forms, including the nai (plain) and the masu (polite, respectful), the latter mandatory when addressing a person of higher status.


Deutsch has du and Sie.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 18, 2020, 07:58:39 AM
Deutsch has du and Sie.
Sie is the polite form but does not imply any submission as with masu.

The first time I visited Germany was in 1970 at the IBM Lab in Böblingen near Stuttgart, and was surprised by the formality of my colleagues there: they addressed each other prefacing Herr, Frau and Fräulein to family names ::), while we only used the latter in Italy.

Spaniards are more elaborate: a Diego Velazquez may be addressed as Don Diego, Señor Velazquez, Señor Don Diego Velazquez depending on the degree of familiarity/respect. Some years ago I was in Ibiza, and the hotel bartender would address me as Caballero :D.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 19, 2020, 11:28:12 AM


The first time I visited Germany was in 1970 at the IBM Lab in Böblingen near Stuttgart, and was surprised by the formality of my colleagues there: they addressed each other prefacing Herr, Frau and Fräulein to family names ::), while we only used the latter in Italy.

Spaniards are more elaborate: a Diego Velazquez may be addressed as Don Diego, Señor Velazquez, Señor Don Diego Velazquez depending on the degree of familiarity/respect. Some years ago I was in Ibiza, and the hotel bartender would address me as Caballero :D.

Germans can be even more elaborate.

Herr Professor Doctor General Schmidt.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 19, 2020, 04:50:08 PM
Germans can be even more elaborate. Herr Professor Doctor General Schmidt.
That in writing, I don't think verbally...IINM he'd be addressed as "Herr Professor" or "Herr Doktor" or "Herr General".

Any German RWD members around?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 20, 2020, 01:37:58 AM
OK, so what are the reasons as you see it ?

Also, the studies probably are focused only on sex with a partner.
With the plethora of sexy women available for viewing on the internet, men (and women) can pleasure themselves as much as they want.
Vibrators and the like make it so easy (and mess free) for women to attain sexual pleasure, that the need for a partner is greatly reduced.
Sure I know that there is a lot of pleasure from contact with another human, but sexual release can be had with one's self; and then go cuddle and watch a movie with another person.
So probably sexual release has not declined; just such with partners.

 
You make an interesting point about the self pleasure that people can give to themselves. 
Toys, porno and so self simulation.
 
The question could be : are we aiming to a japanese society, as sex in the youngest generation has jalready slowed down in the west? 
Personnaly I would not live in such society and would not have such society for our childrens.   
 
For more informations and extended reasons see :http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/12/the-sex-recession/573949/  (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/12/the-sex-recession/573949/)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 20, 2020, 01:47:14 AM
OK, so what are the reasons as you see it ?

Also, the studies probably are focused only on sex with a partner.
With the plethora of sexy women available for viewing on the internet, men (and women) can pleasure themselves as much as they want.
Vibrators and the like make it so easy (and mess free) for women to attain sexual pleasure, that the need for a partner is greatly reduced.
Sure I know that there is a lot of pleasure from contact with another human, but sexual release can be had with one's self; and then go cuddle and watch a movie with another person.
So probably sexual release has not declined; just such with partners.

 
"With the plethora of sexy women available for viewing on the internet, men (and women) can pleasure themselves as much as they want."
 
For many men on the western dating sites, what they feel is scarsity and not plethora. 
On Tinder a woman has 50% chance to be selected a man 0.3%
On other sites the proportion of men easily surpass by two of three the number of women. 
So the internet dating is a real fierce competition for men in the west. 
The eastern countries are an other story. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on January 20, 2020, 01:54:46 AM
My step-son recently married a Jap girl, so I hope your 'theory' re sex is bollox...

Where are you getting the data for some of your 'claims'?




Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 20, 2020, 02:55:50 AM
My step-son recently married a Jap girl, so I hope your 'theory' re sex is bollox...

Where are you getting the data for some of your 'claims'?


It's not MY theory, this is for true, in the real Japan now.
 
http://talkaboutjapan.com/sexuality-in-japan-iii/ (http://talkaboutjapan.com/sexuality-in-japan-iii/)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 20, 2020, 09:39:34 AM
Lady of Kiev got cold feet this week end
She even wanted to stop the relationship.
And I could'nt understand exactly why. 
 
She is the one I like the most. I consider that we can have a future together.
She is very smart, she is curious, she likes to travel, we have both the capacity to communicate and to make compromise, sex is great, she lives in a city that is exactly the right spot to relocate at least partially for me in the future. 
She told me that I miss you since our trip, she told me she likes me, she sent me several compliments after our trip.
 
Maybe because I was in a diner friday. I sent her some photos and a message but she didn't read the last one till the day after. Saturday evening  I had to abort our chat because of technical problems and my neighbour coming to have a diner at my place.  So maybe she was disappointed. 
 
The truth is that she spends a significant number of evening or afternoon to  meet her family or friends. And I don't get angry about this even if I would like to be closer of her. 
I asked her if she had met someone else, she answered no and I also asked if I had made something wrong. She wrote something philosophical about long distance relationship and that chastity shouldn't be the norm, especially for a man...   
 
In fact I do believe that is shit test, she is likely to be emotionnaly more involved now and I start to discover that she is more sensitive than what she showed me at the beginning. 
 
So what I did : I continue to chase her and multiply by two my kind and sweet words towoards her. We have no reasons to stop if we like each other.
I am planning to see her twice in the next 12 weeks !!! How many ukrainian women have such treatment with a foreigner? That will mean four meetings in five months.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 20, 2020, 09:42:41 AM
HB9 no news
Not surprised that she didn't contact me.
Now this week end will become strategic.
If nothing happens in the next seven days. 
 
It will mean that's dead. 
 
However, I told all the story to a female friend of mine and showed all sms between us. 
She told me : for sure she is not used to get such type of commuication from men she usually meets. 
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 20, 2020, 09:50:23 AM
Buddy who got his date but with no further relationship starts to figure out what her ex wife really did before
 
He told me that he is now suspecting that her ex wife was a usual cheater.
 
Lets me explain. 
Her wife left him for notarius she knew for the childhood, a guy who earns between 5 and 10 times more than him.
He realised that her wife cheated on him before she decide to leave for this man. 
 
But now she has split with this man and starts to date a colleague.
Weirdly this is the same guy she praised long time ago month after month.
He starts to put the puzzle together and realize that this notarius was not the first one.
He understood what happened because she left him few times after, but in fact she started to cheat on him long time ago with an other man at least. 
   
To his defense, he is a traditionnal guy, with traditional value, and never cheated on her.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Faux Pas on January 20, 2020, 10:50:31 AM
Lady of Kiev got cold feet this week endShe even wanted to stop the relationship.

And I could'nt understand exactly why. 
 
She is the one I like the most. I consider that we can have a future together.
She is very smart, she is curious, she likes to travel, we have both the capacity to communicate and to make compromise, sex is great, she lives in a city that is exactly the right spot to relocate at least partially for me in the future. 
She told me that I miss you since our trip, she told me she likes me, she sent me several compliments after our trip.
 
Maybe because I was in a diner friday. I sent her some photos and a message but she didn't read the last one till the day after. Saturday evening  I had to abort our chat because of technical problems and my neighbour coming to have a diner at my place.  So maybe she was disappointed. 
 
The truth is that she spends a significant number of evening or afternoon to  meet her family or friends. And I don't get angry about this even if I would like to be closer of her. 
I asked her if she had met someone else, she answered no and I also asked if I had made something wrong. She wrote something philosophical about long distance relationship and that chastity shouldn't be the norm, especially for a man...   
 
In fact I do believe that is shit test, she is likely to be emotionnaly more involved now and I start to discover that she is more sensitive than what she showed me at the beginning. 
 
So what I did : I continue to chase her and multiply by two my kind and sweet words towoards her. We have no reasons to stop if we like each other.
I am planning to see her twice in the next 12 weeks !!! How many ukrainian women have such treatment with a foreigner? That will mean four meetings in five months.

Women in generally are always more emotionally invested than men IMO. It's just they way we are wired and the difference in general in men and women. I would wager she is sensing that you are still playing the field and she would be right wouldn't she? She's likely at a stage in the boy meets girl dance that she needs affirmation that her investment in you is indeed the right one. As I see it, you can either give her that, or not. If you can jump in with both feet and do it, the head and heart be dammed. If not, let her know that too. It would appear with the knowledge that you have about her to date, she might be the one. If so, why risk that for another 3 birds in the bush?

Pat, you're a suave debonair Frenchmen with a lot of life experience. She probably not so much. You do seem to pride yourself on your abilities with the fairer sex. Playing the PUA is fun and exciting but it always leads to one of two paths. If you want to keep the Kiev Lady you might need to veer to her path and see where it takes, no?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 20, 2020, 02:02:35 PM
In Sex and Perestroika french movie made in 1990

How to get acquainted with russian young ladies 
Answers given by the young quite beautiful female local terp 
and adressed to the stage director

I suppose that the stage director tried to bed the terp  :P because she adds to the director, "don't be offended"  :D
 

1/ You have to be distant, don't touch the girl saying you have beautiful eyes, always hold back
2/ Talk to her but never flirt with her
3/ Never ask romantical questions. Because all romantics are old dead since the revolution.
Ask technical question about love and sex only.

So what do you think fellows ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on January 20, 2020, 02:22:18 PM
In Sex and Perestroika french movie made in 1990

How to get acquainted with russian young ladies 
Answers given by the young quite beautiful female local terp 
and adressed to the stage director

I suppose that the stage director tried to bed the terp  :P because she adds to the director, "don't be offended"  :D
 

1/ You have to be distant, don't touch the girl saying you have beautiful eyes, always hold back
2/ Talk to her but never flirt with her
3/ Never ask romantical questions. Because all romantics are old dead since the revolution.
Ask technical question about love and sex only.

So what do you think fellows ?

What's a technical question?   In/Out, Repeat?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 20, 2020, 02:37:04 PM
What's a technical question?   In/Out, Repeat?

 
What do you think about the 3 answers given by the terp.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: jone on January 20, 2020, 02:44:37 PM
I have always found talking to FSU women to be fraught with land mines.   It is very important not to stray too far from pleasant and direct conversation and be very cautious about using humor. 

I agree with the flirting statement.  But I think it is also very important to convey interest.   So a direct compliment is in order.   And then let her know what your intentions are.   Very directly.   If I were on a trip to see her, I would remind her that I traveled X number of Kilometers just to meet her. 

As for romance, it is the doing, not the saying.   Little things, gestures, even, will convey romance.   

But the biggest and most important thing a man can do is respond to how she interacts.   If she is interested, she will let you know.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on January 20, 2020, 03:25:29 PM
In Sex and Perestroika french movie made in 1990

How to get acquainted with russian young ladies 
Answers given by the young quite beautiful female local terp 
and adressed to the stage director

I suppose that the stage director tried to bed the terp  :P because she adds to the director, "don't be offended"  :D
 

1/ You have to be distant, don't touch the girl saying you have beautiful eyes, always hold back
2/ Talk to her but never flirt with her
3/ Never ask romantical questions. Because all romantics are old dead since the revolution.
Ask technical question about love and sex only.

So what do you think fellows ?

I think you should TOTALLY ignore the 'advice'.

Generalisations about women or men are fraught with danger.

Certainly, I am was distant...I was direct about I wanted from a relationship



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 20, 2020, 05:46:53 PM
I have always found talking to FSU women to be fraught with land mines.   It is very important not to stray too far from pleasant and direct conversation and be very cautious about using humor. 

I agree with the flirting statement.  But I think it is also very important to convey interest.   So a direct compliment is in order.   And then let her know what your intentions are.   Very directly. 

Women everywhere can be quite different from their sister females.

In FSU, a few  times after eating in restaurant, I went to wash up area to floss my teeth; a habit of mine.
Arriving back at table, I stopped and kissed the gal on the cheek on this, the first date.
The women were quite taken with this . . . but in a good way and it often led to quick sex.
They usually told me that they liked a man who immediately indicated what they wanted . . . or interpreted it as I was so attracted to them that I couldn't wait.

On some other occasions, we were taken to a table with 4 chairs, one on each side.  After initial seating across from each other, I would move to be beside the gal.  They would get up to go to toilet area, and after coming back, would re-seat themselves to be across from me.  For these gals, obviously they didn't get a kiss on cheek from me later; and usually no second date occurred.

Chemistry . . . or not; or just warm vs cold women.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: GQBlues on January 20, 2020, 08:37:55 PM
So what do you think fellows ?

It's the M.O.B. Keep it simple.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 21, 2020, 03:38:08 AM
Women in generally are always more emotionally invested than men IMO. It's just they way we are wired and the difference in general in men and women. I would wager she is sensing that you are still playing the field and she would be right wouldn't she? She's likely at a stage in the boy meets girl dance that she needs affirmation that her investment in you is indeed the right one. As I see it, you can either give her that, or not. If you can jump in with both feet and do it, the head and heart be dammed. If not, let her know that too. It would appear with the knowledge that you have about her to date, she might be the one. If so, why risk that for another 3 birds in the bush?

Pat, you're a suave debonair Frenchmen with a lot of life experience. She probably not so much. You do seem to pride yourself on your abilities with the fairer sex. Playing the PUA is fun and exciting but it always leads to one of two paths. If you want to keep the Kiev Lady you might need to veer to her path and see where it takes, no?
You are a reasonnable and an open minded man FP
I don't think that she has sensed me playing the field because no evidence of that. It's more about about her own insecurities (she wrote me that she has taught about those problems of an international relationship more than one time) and also you know that all FSU have at least a zest of jealousy and they can throw away this dart to "ping" you somehow and see how the response is. This zest could sometimes becomes a twister  :P
 Time will show the right path, but I have however showed her more affirmation in the relationship last 48 hours occupying the field with a lot of attention and now introducing with the utter seriousness our next rendez vous. And everybody here damned know that I am not a keyboard clown when it's time to date a woman.
 
It is not the morale that will drop me a knee on the floor but more means and time meeting intelligence in the purpose to not waiste primary investments, and considering that other women are no challengers for the moment. 
 
About playing the PUA, I have never considered myself one, and none real PUA will consider me as one of them. But you are right I have raised some skills to a high level that makes things really easy and successful with women. At least largely enough to help me in many situations. In the past I was capable to pick up in some bars, nowadays I am not. But I don't really need. However it would be fun to restart this. I have never been a street pickup guy, the most difficult time of the game. 
 
 
My journey, compare to many here, is quite diffferent nowadays. There are no children to be born in the future, importing a FSU woman is not an option for the moment, marrying in France is not an option and marrying a french woman will NEVER be an option. 
 
As the criminal organisation operating in the courts are limiting my freedom I have to make some life adjustement to keep me safe and move freely. 
 
Freedom is today my first criteria, I have admitted myself that I will have the courage to die alone and will not prostitute me the rest of my life in the hope that a woman will caring me the last days of my life. When you have fixed with yourself this moment of ugly truth you realize that the world becomes immensely open.
Many men (but women also) are afraid to be alone (but this doesn't mean that you will be alone, it's just that people are afraid) and their whole life strategy is de facto compressed in a reduced format.
After ex wifey left I was ready to spend the rest of my life alone ready to accept that a mating life was over.
That was not true and to my surprise in two years, without any compulsion or addiction I have performed very well. Large differences of age are accpeted by many women but it hits back for a long term relationship somehow and that is quite normal because younger women don't necessary want to stay with an older man. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 21, 2020, 03:57:09 AM
I have always found talking to FSU women to be fraught with land mines.   It is very important not to stray too far from pleasant and direct conversation and be very cautious about using humor. 

I agree with the flirting statement.  But I think it is also very important to convey interest.   So a direct compliment is in order.   And then let her know what your intentions are.   Very directly.   If I were on a trip to see her, I would remind her that I traveled X number of Kilometers just to meet her. 

As for romance, it is the doing, not the saying.   Little things, gestures, even, will convey romance.   

But the biggest and most important thing a man can do is respond to how she interacts.   If she is interested, she will let you know.

 
I do agree with evertything you wrote Jone.   
 
Humour could be a trap and you could loose a woman easily.
A2 time in seduction, conveying your direct interest is very important with FSU women.
I personaly not compliment a woman. If I do it it's more about her skills and never about her looks in the debut. After some dates and especially if we start to hit off I will start to compliment her slowly, her looks less than any other especially if she is beautiful. And if we are intimate I will compliment her more and more and could be very very direct about all her anatomy. 
Romance is not about to said, but to be done, you are right Jone, it's named in french to be "galant", something likely largely forgotten now. But in fact still appreciated by the ladies.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on January 21, 2020, 08:12:35 AM
It's the M.O.B. Keep it simple.

If you still refer to dating a FSU as being M.O.B, then 'simple' is the person using the ignorant and  demeaning term.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Lily on January 21, 2020, 08:14:39 AM
Si ça peut te consoler, ca n'arrive pas seulement à toi ...

http://youtu.be/sMCJn6xpchw
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Lily on January 21, 2020, 08:22:19 AM
In Sex and Perestroika french movie made in 1990

How to get acquainted with russian young ladies 
Answers given by the young quite beautiful female local terp 
and adressed to the stage director

I suppose that the stage director tried to bed the terp  :P because she adds to the director, "don't be offended"  :D
 

1/ You have to be distant, don't touch the girl saying you have beautiful eyes, always hold back
2/ Talk to her but never flirt with her
3/ Never ask romantical questions. Because all romantics are old dead since the revolution.
Ask technical question about love and sex only.

So what do you think fellows ?

I'd say she tried to tell him that she is not interested in him. Don't bother this woman with your interest, find someone else.
The 'technical questions' about love and sex look completely out of picture to me here. No romantic feelings, no sex.
I used to be a terp myself. At that time, I have developed strong interest in Western men, and it has been solidified after that.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 21, 2020, 08:42:56 AM
I'd say she tried to tell him that she is not interested in him. Don't bother this woman with your interest, find someone else.
The 'technical questions' about love and sex look completely out of picture to me here. No romantic feelings, no sex.
I used to be a terp myself. At that time, I have developed strong interest in Western men, and it has been solidified after that.

 
Hi Lily,I don't know if you saw the movie, they made Emmanuelle 4 also, one of the first erotical movie of this time.It's quite funny what you say because I could guess from the non verbal language of the terp that she was not attracted by the movie director, even if she is naked sometimes in the front of the camera.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on January 21, 2020, 11:04:17 AM


It's not MY theory, this is for true, in the real Japan now.
 
http://talkaboutjapan.com/sexuality-in-japan-iii/ (http://talkaboutjapan.com/sexuality-in-japan-iii/)

No it's an opinion....

Clearly, NOT one my step son shares..!

He HAS tried Russian, British and Japanese girls)

Opinions are like....well you do know the expression..?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 24, 2020, 09:22:39 AM
No it's an opinion....

Clearly, NOT one my step son shares..!

He HAS tried Russian, British and Japanese girls)

Opinions are like....well you do know the expression..?
 
 
This is the beginning of the article you have NOT EVEN OPENED, 
   
First lines : 
 Because Japan has one of the lowest birth rates in the world and its population is on course to shrink dramatically by the middle of the century, every five years the government carries out a detailed survey of attitudes to sex and marriage. The proportion of never-married men and women without sexual experience is on the rise  The studies and surveys have reported loss of sexual drive across several demographics, from adolescent men and women, to married couples. In 2015, the 15th Japanese National Fertility Survey was conducted by the National Institute of Population and Social Security Research
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on January 27, 2020, 02:24:14 AM
'Pat'

Your first mistake is ASSuming I didn't open and read your link ..

The second was ASSuming no practical experience ..

Perhaps it is the French in you - the need to write of your conquests ? ;)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 27, 2020, 12:05:43 PM
'Pat'

Your first mistake is ASSuming I didn't open and read your link ..

The second was ASSuming no practical experience ..

Perhaps it is the French in you - the need to write of your conquests ? ;)

Please any reader, this is the troll ASS of the forum. put him on ignore.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 28, 2020, 03:59:24 AM
HB9 left the dating scene
   
I have no news of her, and chances that I will never are at least 99% now
I send her last friday a SMS to know if she was feeling good and ask her if her health was ok because sHE had an appointment with a pratician. 
 
I had no disappointment. I spent a good time with her and did everything I was supposed to do with her as a man.
And I don't think that I have missed something in my game. Simply there is a huge age gap between us and that a primary factor.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 28, 2020, 09:57:52 AM
Pat, it seemed that HB9 had a lot of baggage including some health issues.

So perhaps it is just as well for you that nothing is going to happen with her.

Hot Babes can be great to look at . . . but the price might be too high.

I remember back in my undergraduate days in Los Angeles area, there was a really hot chick in one of my classes.

Another male student noticed me looking at her, and told me later:

He went to high school with her, and she was an aspiring actress.

That pretty much told me that she would be a lot of trouble, even if we were ever to have a connection.

In another LA situation, a friend of mine started dating this really hot chick in her mid 30s who was still an aspiring actress.  To pay the bills, she was a real estate agent.  She had a teenage daughter.

At one point she told my friend that she knew of a really good real estate investment and asked him to put in a substantial amount of money . . . but she wanted to title the property IN HER NAME ONLY. 

They broke up shortly thereafter.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 28, 2020, 01:52:57 PM
Pat, it seemed that HB9 had a lot of baggage including some health issues.

So perhaps it is just as well for you that nothing is going to happen with her.

Hot Babes can be great to look at . . . but the price might be too high.

I remember back in my undergraduate days in Los Angeles area, there was a really hot chick in one of my classes.

Another male student noticed me looking at her, and told me later:

He went to high school with her, and she was an aspiring actress.

That pretty much told me that she would be a lot of trouble, even if we were ever to have a connection.

In another LA situation, a friend of mine started dating this really hot chick in her mid 30s who was still an aspiring actress.  To pay the bills, she was a real estate agent.  She had a teenage daughter.

At one point she told my friend that she knew of a really good real estate investment and asked him to put in a substantial amount of money . . . but she wanted to title the property IN HER NAME ONLY. 

They broke up shortly thereafter.

 
I am quite a philosopher now. 
She maybe disqualify herself, playing high color during the celebration but finaly not capable to raise the bar after (in her opinion, not mine, I didn't spend enough time to know her enough).
 
What I know for sure is that she don't have a real occupation and could'nt hold a job for too long, still searching a profession at 35. Probably the fact she got pregnant at 16 or 17. She went to the university later, which is a proof of courage, but nothing that brings you a real profession. 
 
In France her origin is most of the time also a problem for native frenchs.   
 
But the main problem is very likely the number of children with a new born one, if I understood well.   
 
We could have become also friends. But it's not gonna to happen, anyways she has not a lot of time available IMHO.








Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 29, 2020, 01:53:35 AM
Real internet dating life in France for an average man of mid fourties on a legitimate dating site = LAME

Buddy told me this week end that he  registered on a legitimate site (not tinder), a site for serious relationships.
   
In one year (two ?) he got zero message except few women from Africa, exactly the type of women he has specify to have not desire to meet.
 
The two women I know he really met were one he met at my home and the other one we talked about him meeting her here in RWD, I helped him to get this woman back on the track. 
During this time, on the same type of dating site a woman we know, older but looks good, got 50 messages in few weeks.   
 
I am not surprised, those informations corroborate what I have observed last two decades for men in the western countries when we talk about dating. 
 
On the same type of site I have managed to have few meetings but the number of message was low to be frank.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 29, 2020, 09:31:27 AM
Real internet dating life in France for an average man of mid fourties on a legitimate dating site = LAME

Buddy told me this week end that he  registered on a legitimate site (not tinder), a site for serious relationships.
   
In one year (two ?) he got zero message except few women from Africa, exactly the type of women he has specify to have not desire to meet.
 
The two women I know he really met were one he met at my home and the other one we talked about him meeting her here in RWD, I helped him to get this woman back on the track. 
During this time, on the same type of dating site a woman we know, older but looks good, got 50 messages in few weeks.   
 
I am not surprised, those informations corroborate what I have observed last two decades for men in the western countries when we talk about dating. 
 
On the same type of site I have managed to have few meetings but the number of message was low to be frank.

Just one short point here.

Despite what we hear about women's sexual liberation and their right to be aggressive in relationships, is it not true in reality . . . that women still want men to take the traditional role and be the one to propose first meetings, etc.?

If true . . . then it follows that men are being naive in thinking that they can expect a lot of appropriate and legitimate contacts from women on the dating sites.

Yes, some of us can quote some isolated instances where a girl asked a boy to the Senior Prom, where the woman asked a male colleague to meet for a drink after work, and even where the female proposed marriage, but . . .

In general, men must still be the aggressive ones.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 30, 2020, 02:17:31 AM
Just one short point here.

Despite what we hear about women's sexual liberation and their right to be aggressive in relationships, is it not true in reality . . . that women still want men to take the traditional role and be the one to propose first meetings, etc.?

If true . . . then it follows that men are being naive in thinking that they can expect a lot of appropriate and legitimate contacts from women on the dating sites.

Yes, some of us can quote some isolated instances where a girl asked a boy to the Senior Prom, where the woman asked a male colleague to meet for a drink after work, and even where the female proposed marriage, but . . .

In general, men must still be the aggressive ones.
I do agree in everything you wrote ML

I will ask to buddy how many women he contacted by himself. Could be interesting.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 30, 2020, 02:25:11 AM
Lady of Kiev coming in France soon
   
After the shit test she gave me  I decided to move forward in  the relationship by asking her when she could have some vacations in the beginning of march.  So the plan is her to come in less than 5 weeks. That will be a short time but it's better than anything.
 
We are quite excited. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 30, 2020, 02:44:12 AM
Dating at the local catholic church

Tonight something funny and quite unexpected is about to happen, I am invited to meet single women at the catholic church.
It makes me weird but I am very curious also. I am a non believer so I am not really comfortable.
But women are women and it could be very funny to game there. I find this quite hilarious.
And it can also lead to a serious meeting, who knows?
I am a non believer but I am not against people who believes, as long as they let me quiet as a non believer. 
 
I didn't have a lot of relationship with classical catholic women believers but the one I remember right now was quite unbridled in the sack.
It started in a swimming pool at night, in the external pool like spa pool, I warmed her to a high temperature.We moved later to the showers and as soon as I closed the door she totallydropped her swimsuit.
We started to make out and I repeatedly activated the water to avoid people to hear her coming too loudly. After a while she wanted to lay down on the floor to change of position but I perfectly knew that every one coming in the showers would have seen us on the floor while entering.
I was invited in her place later and the result was not quite different.
She was a nice lady and later found a man to start a family, I had no real feelings for her at this time.
 
That's was a very good memory and I am pretty sure she also never forgot this moment.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 03, 2020, 03:39:42 AM
Dating at the local catholic church, unexpected but not totally void
Finally that was more a trap than a speed dating  :D
In fact it was a eight episodes workshop for divorced or separated who are in troubles to get over their separation. 
Not really what I need  :P
 
I can however applaud this type of endeavor from the local church, very involved in the life of the city. They are doing a very great job.
 
So we were divided in several tables of ten people and the evening followed strict schedule with frequent public speaking.
 
To my surprise was present at my table one of my ex fuckfriend before I was married. She is a pharmacist have nice humor but I have never been in love with her. To protect her I never allowed her to spend a whole night with me. 
   
Guess what I still have her phone number  :P   
And I decided to call her two days after. She is free. i didn't feel enough comfort to setup a date directly but I probably will.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 03, 2020, 11:45:59 AM
Girls religion sex
Of the three religious women I remember now and who exercise it the one I met at the diner last week was the most conservative in the bedroom. 
It needed time before reaching intimacy. 
She was also afraid of MST.
So when a condom broke she was panicking.
I was also fed up that she came with a pussy unprepared so one day I sent her a message asking to shave this forest. She was in shock but it was done for the following meeting. 
 
She had a monotous life and 10 years after nothing has changed even if she told me that she had a boyfriend last few years. 
She liked to come at my place or go to to the restaurant or hanging out in some other places. It was the only time when she could get out of her boring life. 
Don't underestimate what you could give even if it's few hours to a woman if you treat her well, give her some fun, bring her in some interesting places and people, and additionaly give her some nice orgasms and raise her sexual tension. It's priceless...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 03, 2020, 12:01:17 PM
Why so many people are having are bored or unhappy? Catholic diner for singles and divorced

Not only were present, of course many people suffering from divorces or separations but also some people who haven't recover or rebound even years or a decade after.
I suppose that those people are suffering of more than a split, some personal psychologic problems not solved from the youth that start to rise to the surface after the thirties. 
 
A man raised my attention during the diner.
Totally broken by his divorce. Couldn't meet his 3 children again, lost the house but also didn't get any money back, lost his job in Swiss.
Her ex wife abused him totally, and also one attorney who made a bill on him of 30000 $. He asked him to not go over 10000 and suddenly this monkey called him saying that he has to pay his bill now it was 30000$.
Her ex wife was a judge, and chairman of the bar of the tribunal. She played this hard on him all along the divorce. This woman was suffering from heavy psychological troubles and destroyed him for a part.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 03, 2020, 02:00:21 PM
Lady of Kiev showed me two little orange flags during the trip and now I have one other and maybe I have more to remind.   
 
That's a little embarassing because I just bought her plane ticket yesterday, so if she bails out I will loose 200 euros.   
 
Don't want to explain all now but we generally use an internet messenger from time to time during the day and sometimes we call each other and continue on Skype that  allows us to benefit from the integrated translator and so we have an interactive online communication.     
 
As we were doing this yesterday I realized that she was late to answer, three or four minutes. And it happened again. So I asked her if she was interested to chat with me. As I got no answer I wrote "it seems to be that you are not interested to chat with me" and I left and closed Skype. 
 
I tried to explain her later that during in an interactive chat (we have few, one per week maybe) I dislike to wait stupidly behing the keyboard while the other people are doing I don't know in the appartment. 
   
But now she is very upset and declare any wrong doing.
So I told her "Sweetie I doubt that when you are talking with your friends or your mum you drop your phone on the sofa and go to wash you hair or take a shower. So please don't do this with me. Wish you a good night baby. Kisses".
She is even more upset.  :rolleyes: 
 

Since I came back from our trip I have cooled down a little. 
I finally decide to keep all my aces in my hand. 
Not ready to give them up and I would say happy to keep my way like this. 

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on February 03, 2020, 04:23:54 PM

As we were doing this yesterday I realized that she was late to answer, three or four minutes. And it happened again. So I asked her if she was interested to chat with me. As I got no answer I wrote "it seems to be that you are not interested to chat with me" and I left and closed Skype. 
 
I tried to explain her later that during in an interactive chat (we have few, one per week maybe) I dislike to wait stupidly behind the keyboard while the other people are doing I don't know in the apartment. 
   
But now she is very upset and denies any wrong doing.
So I told her "Sweetie I doubt that when you are talking with your friends or your mum you drop your phone on the sofa and go to wash you hair or take a shower. So please don't do this with me.

I am not understanding exactly what the process is here.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 04, 2020, 02:28:50 AM
I am not understanding exactly what the process is here.

 
Till now we were using seldom Skype like a telephone but in a writing form. 
Yesterday it was like I had a lot of delay, she was not in front of the keyboard, it was the first time she did this on me. I expressed my dislike.
But now she is very upset and agressive.
 
IMHO when you have an active chat session with a FSU woman (you call each other and open Skype to continue to benefit from the translation because this lady speaks any english) you don't go to have a shower or wash some dishes four minutes or go into the workshop to clean something especially when those type of chat happens one time per week.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on February 04, 2020, 06:44:34 AM

 
Till now we were using seldom Skype like a telephone but in a writing form. 
Yesterday it was like I had a lot of delay, she was not in front of the keyboard, it was the first time she did this on me. I expressed my dislike.
But now she is very upset and agressive.
 
IMHO when you have an active chat session with a FSU woman (you call each other and open Skype to continue to benefit from the translation because this lady speaks any english) you don't go to have a shower or wash some dishes four minutes or go into the workshop to clean something especially when those type of chat happens one time per week.

OK, I now understand the process.

Outcome doesn't look good for the future of you two.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on February 04, 2020, 07:05:15 AM
IF a lady is in to you see will call more than one time a day ...  if you have to make a special effort to present your life in a better way - you're already cheating on her expectations, kidding yourself and building of crap for when she might visit you ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 04, 2020, 01:39:52 PM
Lady of Kiev cooled down. 
 
Communication restarted normally today.
Only time allow you to know really people.
All is smooth like before
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on February 04, 2020, 01:46:33 PM
Lady of Kiev came cooled down. 
 
Communication restarted normally today.
Only time allow you to know really people.

Can you live with a volatile person, or even a mildly up and down person ??
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 04, 2020, 02:11:39 PM
Can you live with a volatile person, or even a mildly up and down person ??

For the moment dear ML I don't know exactly who is she, she could be capricious, her own words.
 
And I don't know if I could support her on a long term. For sure she makes efforts to control herself and find some compromises. Wich is not so bad at the end, it means that she tries to build something.
Life with FSU is a delicate mix between being selfish and hard at the steel and being very caring, listening and actively searching the compromise or how to please her, don't know how you feel this ML.
 
I largely acted like this with my french girlfriend of this summer during two months and she damned liked it.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 04, 2020, 02:31:01 PM
The other lady in Ukraine I met three months ago - the next meeting is being prepared better than operation OVERLOD
 
I wanted to her let go but she sent me three sweet messages while I was silent as she was in severe medical condition at this moment and I couldn't not answer. 
 
We play chess with our fantaisies arranging message after message what we will do, with Chantilly, massaging you first, you massaging me after but as all will become very sexual it couldn't been described with accuracy. 
And then after raising the sexual tension to the almost fantasm but we know both of us it will be done I RELEASE all, 
Pull and push, so now I tell her that I first want to go the restaurant with her and after we will take the tranway (where we kissed first) to kiss her of course.
She is the girl in Alcatraz and now a french lover proposes her a ballad on a sailing boat in a sunny day with a romantic landscape. Every day she wokes up and see the grey sky with some light in it.
 
We are both building this dream that will land soon, and the day it will happen she will become slowly naked on a bed and passably wet from all this accumulated suspense... 
 
We are writing a story and women damned like to write it with you.
And she will do everything to play the game of love, a certain idea of romantism, a meeting where she is not shy to show she is a real woman. Don't underestimate them, they want to play, your job is just to help them to get on the scene.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on February 04, 2020, 02:59:08 PM

For the moment dear ML I don't know exactly who is she, she could be capricious, her own words.
 
And I don't know if I could support her on a long term. For sure she makes efforts to control herself and find some compromises. Wich is not so bad at the end, it means that she tries to build something.
Life with FSU is a delicate mix between being selfish and hard at the steel and being very caring, listening and actively searching the compromise or how to please her, don't know how you feel this ML.
 
I largely acted like this with my french girlfriend of this summer during two months and she damned liked it.

I don't really have any experience in living long term with a capricious or volatile woman, as I couldn't do it.

The one FSUW who professed to love me more than anyone (and I believed her) was somewhat volatile, so I terminated our romantic relationship (after 4 meetings with her, 2 of which lasted a month each).
I regretted this necessity, as she was every man's wildest sexual dream.

She has now married a local guy and we still send each other greetings at some holidays.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 06, 2020, 11:41:36 AM
The other lady in Ukraine I met three months ago -  she sent me a photo suggesting love between a man and a woman eating chantilly 
                                                                           
So I was previously speaking about anchors in NPL
 I dropped an anchor (chantilly) on this lady, and it works, she by herself reminds it and that means a lot of positive emotions, love, kissing, sex, food, champaign and everything you want to share in intimacy.
Everyone want to renew with positive emotions, I would even say that many people crave for positive emotions in a world in grey with no determined future, a lot of people have bed journey or they have boring life in fact. Just gently push them in a vivid day full of positive emotions.
 
Every message is delicately chopped to push her towards the wet paradise and trigger her imagination to an unknown dimension.
Things come slowly and it is all about suggestion, do you want more chocolate in your dessert, do you think that chocolate should be liquid? No maybe I should'nt tell you and surprise you. But chocolate is dirty on clothes. Which cloth do you want me to remove first? Maybe we will forget because of the champaign which one. So please write on your fridge a post it "my shirt will drop first" and write also chantilly, no you don't that the last thing we gonna to forget, don't you? 
 
Six months to prepare a sex date, nobody wants to miss such event.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 10, 2020, 05:52:47 AM
Funny movie with english subtitles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F68bbzOOOdY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F68bbzOOOdY)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 13, 2020, 07:09:54 AM
Next three months look quite exciting

Life now is good.
 
Lady of Kiev will land in my city in three weeks. 
 
Mistress is circling around me but I keep her away except for a good f... party. She is supposed to be in a training center to prepare a contest to get an occupation and a job. But each time I ask her how things are going on she never answers. I also never see her with some books and she never speaks about anything any subjects related to the contest. So the truth is that she is not studying and  will never pass the contest. She is like a student bachelor walking every day, all paid by the state, her husband or her parents and she is 38.   :rolleyes:
   
We have an other meeting scheduled in two months in an other city of Ukraine with an other lady and that should be a firework. 
 
Also of female friend of mine, invited me in a marriage in Lviv end of may. I would really like to go because this is a very interesting cultural event for me. My friend is a former ukrainian 8.5 married to a froggy and gave me some support during my divorce. I feel everything is possible and my friend will tell me which woman are free for me in every corner  :P .
 
I have also a party tomorrow  ;D and additionnaly one french woman I am monitoring for a long time is beddable but some external parameters not depending of me forbid to know when.  8)
 
Do you really think that I want to "engage" myself or marry to be controlled and enslaved by a troop of moralists ? To tell me what I have to do, how I should feel, how much money I have to give back, and other debilnii kakakchki ?

 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 13, 2020, 08:43:30 AM
What I have discovered during my divorce in the court 
It was worse than what I tried to understand during the almost two previous decades.
During almost two decades I came to the summary that something was wrongly working in the divorce department. 
 I met hundred of people separated and divorced people and  I saw almost no cases of women paying a compensatory alimony, maybe two or three cases while 95% it is paid by the men.
And a compensatory alimony is given in 17% of divorces in France.
It is not exactly the amount of wage to be considered but more about the difference between the two spouses. 
How explain that only less than 5% of women pay a compensatory alimony while 40% of women earn more than men?

I had the explanation from my attorney, one of the top attorney of my state, he is a rock star.

The only way to have time to discuss with him was prior entering into the court while sitting on a bench. 

I asked him, why men are so proportionnaly disadvantaged when it's time to go in the family court ?

He smiled and told me : "just look around you".

The court has two or three floors long of probably 1000 feets. Except two males attorneys, I could see, except clients, only women. Attorney, judges, assistants, all women.
 
So the first fact is whatever is said the justice in the family court is partial, it's an biaised female justice. 
   
But then he told me something that almost killed me : "look I have a case where she earns 15000$ and he earns 5000$ and they divorce after 23 years of marriage and I have asked 150000$ for the man considering also assets (this what this man should have retrieved from the court), his gaze dropped on the floor, I only got 80000$ 
So everyone could propose me the usual opera soap, "men earn more than women so it's normal that men pay more when it's time to divorce." 
But now when we come to the SAME situation and reverse the table of 180°, if it's a woman to pay, the conditions change and BECAUSE she is woman she pays LESS
TWO different justices : one for men and one for women
 
 
So everyday they step in the courts all those judges, attorneys and assistants are spitting and muddying on one of the biggest pilar of the constitution which is :
Equality before the law whatever your sex, your religion, your color is, and so you get the same treatment. (to make it simple). 
 
This is something I missed entirely, the same situation is not giving the same sentence if you are a man or a woman, and this man, my attorney, has 20 years of practice.

This is the absolute proof that those western democracies are just a pantomine in the family courts.

what to understand as a western man :
You should stay away from such courts as possible, Canada first the worse, England, USA, Australia and other western countries of old Europe also.

As a jew in 1938, you would had any desire to go to a third reich court, guessing, most of the time the judgement encountered.

The paradox is that today many men believe in impartiality of the family court but they have the jew treatment most of the time.


 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 13, 2020, 09:32:06 AM
why, during a divorce, as a man, you should almost NEVER recruit a woman attorney
 
Episod 1 what I have experienced.   
During my divorce I met three attorneys.
 
the first one was a man and it was just for a consultation meeting. This guy badly answered because at this moment a client is just searching practical advices, what to trigger first, rather than legal details.
 
the second was a woman. As I started to tell her everything I did, including the bad, she started to be like offended and I felt evaluated. Later in the meeting she started to talk about how women are get low pension payments.
Back to my home I felt uncomfortable, what the problem of low pension payments has to do with my divorce? Why an attorney who is supposed to help me and protect me is giving me the bad look treatment?
But worse was coming : I asked her during the meeting to send to my present wife a letter proposing to help her to leave the appartment with money.
Normally an attorney is supposed to give the necessary advice to defend you.
 
In fact what I asked was a way to hit me back during the trial. She should had never sent this letter, that was against my interest
Believe me I thought that having a woman as attorney could help me and could be an asset. I was wrong, I was deadly wrong, and that's a stupid mistake to hire a woman, we will see later WHY. 
 
Months, year later I clearly think that this attorney was pro feminist or feminist and how is it possible to be a mysoginist or a feminist and work in the family law department? 
Nothing shocks you? No confusion of roles here? 
So not only the judges will strike you down as a man with biaised trials but also many female attorneys will do nothing more than the minimum service to take your money in the best case, or female attorney who have pro feminism sympathy or are active feminists will wreck your case. Which is the worse scenario, the worm is in the fruit and you maybe will never understand it.
 
Come on dudes, how those attorney are going to fight for you, as they are absolutely convinced  that the sexual discrimination you get as a man is fair an approved by the law ??????????????????
 
HOW CAN YOU KNOW? how can you know if your if your female attorney (or male) is going to wreck your file or not?
No you cannot know.
 
Maybe you could ask :
This is the first question as a man you should ask to an attorney : 
do you think that men are equel in the family court? The answer should give you if you need to drop her ASAP.
The second question could be "If you were the president what would do for women (or men, this one is even more prone to surprise her) right now ?"
It is true that there are some pro feminist in men attorneys, but statiscally those chances are really lower.
 
Therefore you should question your attorney and choose a man to get the best chance to defend your rights during your trial if you are a man. And ask some "stupid" questions to raise some understanding to whom you give your defense.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on February 13, 2020, 09:54:39 AM
Once again, I disagree with you ..

I found that having a female viewpoint  / insight was useful ..

We 'won' in Court EVERY time..

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on February 13, 2020, 10:05:27 AM
Thanks for the write-ups Pat.

Even as you  are describing the situation in France, I can see a lot of similarities to USA.

In my state, Family Law Judges are elected rather than appointed.

If any particular Judge does not show favoritism to women . . . then women's groups hold demonstrations outside the courthouse and engage in campaigns that lead to these Judges being voted out of office in next election.

On the other hand, men who are being screwed do not hold demonstrations nor campaign against Judges.  This is part of the old standard that men would be seen as wimps and crybabies if they engaged in such behavior.

In several cases that I know of involving businessmen owners; the ex-wives are given the homes, cash and other liquid assets while the men are told . . . go rebuild your business, pay for another house and work until you drop.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on February 13, 2020, 11:40:08 AM
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=13384.msg526983#msg526983 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=13384.msg526983#msg526983)

I disagree. 

My office colleague, a woman, took a case to the Supreme Court of Canada for her male client, and changed the law nationally on child support, in her client's (and others', mostly men's) favour.

Subsequent to that decision, the Divorce Act (Canada) was changed significantly, so there is a consistency across the country for child support.  It is set by statute, except for the very wealthy, and takes into account both parents' incomes.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 13, 2020, 11:50:51 AM
Thanks for the write-ups Pat.

Even as you  are describing the situation in France, I can see a lot of similarities to USA.

In my state, Family Law Judges are elected rather than appointed.

If any particular Judge does not show favoritism to women . . . then women's groups hold demonstrations outside the courthouse and engage in campaigns that lead to these Judges being voted out of office in next election.

On the other hand, men who are being screwed do not hold demonstrations nor campaign against Judges.  This is part of the old standard that men would be seen as wimps and crybabies if they engaged in such behavior.

In several cases that I know of involving businessmen owners; the ex-wives are given the homes, cash and other liquid assets while the men are told . . . go rebuild your business, pay for another house and work until you drop.
Hi ML

Yes there are some similarities, but as I wrote, the worse by scale is Canada, USA, Australia and England and after old western european countries.
Canada has some states where you become a husband without your consent after 2 years of relationship even if you are not married. You become a  "conjoint de fait" and therefore many things should be split to reach equality in wealth.

The demeanor you describe is common but in fact what we have here is :A global robbery depriving many men of a lot of their assets, that's insane and totally unfair.
In a really fierce economy it's already very difficult to push you on the top. Many, many will not make a well off situation during a life, so do it twice is exceptionnal.

What everyone should do is to find on some attorney internet blog when it's a WOMAN who comes to explain that SHE has to pay (quite rare) a compensatory alimony.
You will read how she will feel angry, how she is ashamed, and how she is seek about this..... IN ONE WORD SHE IS LIVING THE MOST UNFAIR THING OF HER LIFE simply, priceless. Many men also feel the same, but they are men so they two  rigths : to pay and to shut up.
 
You raise a concern ML : men start to more and more kowtow. When all the system is against you you start to get the jew third reich condition : a depressed obedient and silent inferior human. 
 
Why I should be inferior ? In the name of which generation that oppressed women long time ago? And I am not supporting oppressing women neither.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on February 13, 2020, 11:56:43 AM
Canada has some states where you become a husband without your consent after 2 years of relationship even if you are not married. You become a  "conjoint de fait" and therefore many things should be split to reach equality in wealth.

But it's only wealth accumulated from the point the parties are deemed married that is split.  So, the fair market value of any assets a party brings into the relationship are exempt.  Plus, this doesn't apply in Quebec.  Furthermore, parties can opt out of the legislation by signing a pre nuptial, or a post nuptial agreement.

There are plenty of people, including women, who disagree with this law.  I believe the reason it's introduced it to move the burden of support for spouses from the state to the ex spouse.  There are also lots of cases of inequity.  This is the case that was the impetus for the change in law to include common law spouses under matrimonial property regimes -


http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/1980/1980canlii22/1980canlii22.html?searchUrlHash=AAAAAQAHcGV0dGt1cwAAAAAB&resultIndex=1 (http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/1980/1980canlii22/1980canlii22.html?searchUrlHash=AAAAAQAHcGV0dGt1cwAAAAAB&resultIndex=1)


In the above case, the major asset of the common law couple (farmland) was purchased with Ms. Becker's money from job.  However, as was the custom at the time, the farm was registered in Mr. Pettkus' name.


Despite winning her appeal, Rosa Becker died penniless.  After Mr. Pettkus threw her away and replaced her with a younger model, he did everything in his power to defeat her attempts to collect on her Supreme Court judgment - he hid assets, sold them and hid the proceeds, etc.  Eventually, her lawyer forced Mr. Pettkus to liquidate everything.  But, the majority of the money was eaten up in legal fees.  Ms. Becker committed suicide, blaming the legal system for her plight.


This post was composed without the aid of google.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 13, 2020, 12:49:44 PM
why, during a divorce, as a man, you should almost NEVER recruit a woman attorney
 
Episod 2 what I have experienced.   

Attorney 1 was a man, a  clown
Attorney 2 was a woman,  who took an oath but forgot all about it and has the satisfaction to make good money while screwing men two times : by defending women and betraying men when defending them. 
 
 So I had to find a third attorney, fast and without missing the shot.
 
I asked to important people around me and a name came three times after some people questionned.
Reading the letter attorney 2 sent he told me that was a mistake and that I had to get it back asap. He also told me that considering my situation and possibly false incoming accusations it became a first priority to send this request for a divorce to the judge office. 
 
I came back to Mum place where I was spending some time with the sense of my ass covered now and with the feeling that I could sleep better. 
 
Please consider that attorney 1 and 2 are not exceptions. Attorney 3 told me there are many bad attorneys and recent examples around me last two years (even some women are not happy where their attorneys, the most incriminated breach is that they are not giving the right advices in the PURE interest of their clients who are EASY PREYS).
 
So many women would tell me Pat you know, your attorney is a kind of frustrated men who told you lies in the court's bench, yes many judges, attorneys and assistants are women but this attorney, number 3 is bad mouthed and has also probably bad personal experience. 
 
First attorney 3 is not a pissed off guy, recently depressed of something like this. He is recently happily married.
 
Ok Pat, but this guy is a mysoginist, please admit it.
 
Unfortunately i couldn't admit this because attorney 3 is married because the law in France has only recently allowed homosexuals to marry.
Attorney is a gay recently married.
So no judge could accuse him of everything. He is known as the white wolve everywhere in the state. Wifey's attorney only spoke three words in front of the judge when questionned by my attorney "it's ok".
 
What he told me is the fruit of 20 years of trials in the civil, all in the family court.
 
He is the alive proof that the functionning of the family court in my country and in my state (we have 100 states approximatively in France) is absolutely contrary to the Constitution and to the basic rules of a democracy.
For a country like France it's a shame.
 
And that's the same in other states of France.
And it's similar in many western countries, even worse.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on February 13, 2020, 01:19:03 PM
Honestly, were I judging your case, I'd force you to pay your ex enough alimony that she doesn't become a burden on the state, in any manner whatsoever.  You chose to marry a foreigner.  You chose to import her into your country.  If she is working, and earning sufficient income that she is not a burden on the state, that's one thing.  However, at the end of the day, you bringing her into the country should be on you, not the French taxpayer.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 13, 2020, 02:37:00 PM
Honestly, were I judging your case, I'd force you to pay your ex enough alimony that she doesn't become a burden on the state, in any manner whatsoever.  You chose to marry a foreigner.  You chose to import her into your country.  If she is working, and earning sufficient income that she is not a burden on the state, that's one thing.  However, at the end of the day, you bringing her into the country should be on you, not the French taxpayer.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
You were writing in you previous post :
"There are plenty of people, including women, who disagree with this law.  I believe the reason it's introduced it to move the burden of support for spouses from the state to the ex spouse" 
So you are fully supporting the law that had been recently promulgated to create "conjoint de fait" husband without consentment I translate for english speakers ?
 
 
However, here
 
Your argument has no validity.
Why ? 
 
1/ Because the alimony has nothing to do with her being a stranger, a french woman in her exact situation would had had the same alimony. 
 
2/ She showed no willingness to work (at this hour after 7 years still not working), but was totally in position to work (french level satisfactory and a french qualification in her possession)
 
3/ The french state welcome millions of foreigners on the dime of the french tax payer with full help government support. Among them there are many women who are spouses of foreign men who live with them on the dime of the french state of course. 
So french men "importing" foreign women will have a different judgement than the foreigners presentS on the french soil and also divorcing? weird but funny situation 
 
NB : if some women really need such compensatory alimoney it's effectively foreign women who during the first months and most of the time during the first two years couldn't make a living by their own.
I have never claim that I would divorce for free from my FSU wife, however the amount considering the time spent in marriage and the fact that she was lazy was IMHO too high.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on February 13, 2020, 02:56:08 PM
I NEVER get why blokes whinge - about the awards made by Courts on divorce ...

They know the risks if it goes pear shaped ..  BEFORE-HAND..

1/ You invited them

2/ and they trusted you to leave their country

3/ They may have given up a career and / job  ..if you split - expect there to be a maintenance bill.

Simples ..


http://www.expatica.com/fr/living/love/getting-divorced-in-france-106688/ (http://www.expatica.com/fr/living/love/getting-divorced-in-france-106688/)

Wow !  the 'wounded party' can claim damages ...

If you already owned property - it should remain yours ..


Most EU folks don't realise that one can divorce in any other EU member state - where some laws can differ slightly .. like Denmark allows quicker divorces ..
 









Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on February 13, 2020, 05:30:53 PM
You were writing in you previous post :
"There are plenty of people, including women, who disagree with this law.  I believe the reason it's introduced it to move the burden of support for spouses from the state to the ex spouse" 
So you are fully supporting the law that had been recently promulgated to create "conjoint de fait" husband without consentment I translate for english speakers ?

It's not that recent.  It's only recent in my province.  It's been the law in some provinces for decades.

You mean "common law" marriages - meaning, the parties are not married, but have lived together in a conjugal relationship for not less than 3 years.

I believe in most marriages, whether legal marriages or common law, this is not a huge issue in most of Canada.  There were already laws in place, as a result of the case I cited above, that ensured parties were afforded some protections via a "constructive trust".  But collection was the issue.  The law does expand the concept, but there are ways to get around it, mostly through prenuptial agreements.

In about a third of marriages in Canada, the couples make roughly the same amount of money.  In half, the husband outearns the wife, and in the other third, the wife outearns the husband.

Spousal support is not a given in Canada.  It's based on a variety of factors, including the length of the marriage, what the couples did (i.e., did one party give up a career to care for the home and children), assets the parties each are receiving (in most cases, the tax effects of the assets received are considered on division), and, if retraining job wise, the length of those programs.  There is no "free lunch" here.  At some point, unless the marriage is very long (30 plus years) and a spouse is disabled, spousal support will end at some point. 

Quote
Your argument has no validity.
Why ? 
 
1/ Because the alimony has nothing to do with her being a stranger, a french woman in her exact situation would had had the same alimony. 
 

But most French women likely would not be in her position.  They would have supports, and, presumably, a job that was closer to yours in income.  You likely would not have married a French woman who was well beneath your station in life, economically or socially.

Quote
2/ She showed no willingness to work (at this hour after 7 years still not working), but was totally in position to work (french level satisfactory and a french qualification in her possession)

That's unusual for a UW.  However, in a way, it's still "on you", unfortunately, as this is the woman you chose to import into the country.
 
Quote
3/ The french state welcome millions of foreigners on the dime of the french tax payer with full help government support. Among them there are many women who are spouses of foreign men who live with them on the dime of the french state of course. 
So french men "importing" foreign women will have a different judgement than the foreigners presentS on the french soil and also divorcing? weird but funny situation 

I think it should be a two way street.  The same rule should apply to French women divorcing foreign men they helped to emigrate to France.

Unless they are refugees, most foreigners in Western countries are only allowed to emigrate based on certain criteria.  Presumably, this is the case in France as well.  The reality is, your wife likely would not have become a legal resident of France were it not for you, and therefore, it is your responsibility.  Incidentally, I feel the same way personally (i.e., if my husband were to leave me, I should be responsible for his upkeep, not the state).
 
This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: GQBlues on February 14, 2020, 08:18:09 AM
In about a third of marriages in Canada, the couples make roughly the same amount of money.  In half, the husband outearns the wife, and in the other third, the wife outearns the husband....

 :-\


If any particular Judge does not show favoritism to women . . . then women's groups hold demonstrations outside the courthouse and engage in campaigns that lead to these Judges being voted out of office in next election.

On the other hand, men who are being screwed do not hold demonstrations nor campaign against Judges.  This is part of the old standard that men would be seen as wimps and crybabies if they engaged in such behavior.

That's no longer about a 'gender' situation anymore, it transcended into race, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc..
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 14, 2020, 08:46:10 AM
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=13384.msg526983#msg526983 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=13384.msg526983#msg526983)

I disagree. 

My office colleague, a woman, took a case to the Supreme Court of Canada for her male client, and changed the law nationally on child support, in her client's (and others', mostly men's) favour.

Subsequent to that decision, the Divorce Act (Canada) was changed significantly, so there is a consistency across the country for child support.  It is set by statute, except for the very wealthy, and takes into account both parents' incomes.

This post was composed without the aid of google.



The title of my post was exactly "why, during a divorce, as a man, you should almost NEVER recruit a woman attorney" 
All the nuance is in the "almost"
   
Which means, as a general rule, as a man you should never recruit a woman attorney, except if she has clearly some outstanding records proving that she can fight hard for a man case. 
So your office colleague could be a catch...     
 
Statitiscally, in a global and rationnal approach, you shoud always avoid women attorneys because you don't want to be a risk taker in a so such serious situation like your divorce. You want to lower your risk and maximize your chances ... 
It is clear for me that any attorney having some sympathy or pro-feminism activity should resign  because this a clear violation of her oast, or they should only defend women and refuse to be hired by a man.
 
the french oast should not be very different than other oasts in the western countries :
"Je jure, comme avocat, d’exercer mes fonctions avec dignité, conscience, indépendance, probité et humanité"
 
If you are a jew in 1938 it is unlikely that you would have asked to the german neighbour you know not so much to help you  because you don't know if he's affiliated to the parti or if he has sympathy for the regime except if you have mental disorder or if you are especially stupid. 
   
Bo I notice that you avoided to answer clearly to my question
"So you are fully supporting the law that had been recently promulgated to create "conjoint de fait" husband without consentment I translate for english speakers ?"You don't need to answer, it is enough clear for me now.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: krimster2 on February 14, 2020, 09:12:53 AM
the legal rights that apply to an individual are diminished the moment you get married...
that’s the devil’s bargain you made when you “sealed the deal”
and yes the devil REALLY can take your soul...
my advice is to “brush up” a bit on contractual law

you can’t help your genetic programming that created the need in you for a woman
you can’t fight it any more than a meth addict can control their need for the next fix
so that brings each of us to where we are today, in the context of our individual relationships with wimmin, some of us good, some of us NOT so good...
but the need for wimmin is beyond our control...
so man continues an eternal struggle with wimmin...
some of the stories are documented here...

my advice to the man of the future is to practice “self-denial”
that is to deny ALL of your biological programming
ESPECIALLY towards wimmin
DON’T go down the garden path that nature and society have laid out for you
do not go gently into that good night
instead...
cry “havoc” and let slip the dogs of war
and lay waste to all that stands before you
your time is coming
I await...



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on February 14, 2020, 09:34:17 AM


The title of my post was exactly "why, during a divorce, as a man, you should almost NEVER recruit a woman attorney" 
All the nuance is in the "almost"
   
Which means, as a general rule, as a man you should never recruit a woman attorney, except if she has clearly some outstanding records proving that she can fight hard for a man case. 
So your office colleague could be a catch...     
 
Statitiscally, in a global and rationnal approach, you shoud always avoid women attorneys because you don't want to be a risk taker in a so such serious situation like your divorce. You want to lower your risk and maximize your chances ... 
It is clear for me that any attorney having some sympathy or pro-feminism activity should resign  because this a clear violation of her oast, or they should only defend women and refuse to be hired by a man.
 
the french oast should not be very different than other oasts in the western countries :
"Je jure, comme avocat, d’exercer mes fonctions avec dignité, conscience, indépendance, probité et humanité"
 
If you are a jew in 1938 it is unlikely that you would have asked to the german neighbour you know not so much to help you  because you don't know if he's affiliated to the parti or if he has sympathy for the regime except if you have mental disorder or if you are especially stupid. 
   
Bo I notice that you avoided to answer clearly to my question
"So you are fully supporting the law that had been recently promulgated to create "conjoint de fait" husband without consentment I translate for english speakers ?"You don't need to answer, it is enough clear for me now.

I reject your whole assertion.

I don't practice family law, but I do a lot of planning for divorcing businessmen.  So, I deal with lawyers who practice family law on a weekly basis.  I don't see a lot of difference between male or female lawyers in their approaches toward clients.  But, from what I've seen, men tend to have the upper hand in divorces, at least in the ones I'm involved in, because they usually have the bulk of the money.

As for the imposition of matrimonial property regimes on common law couples, I have told you in the past I don't support this.  I think people choose certain relationship status for their own reasons, and the state shouldn't really interfere.  However, I do understand the policy reasons behind this.  As I noted, a prenuptial agreement, or a post nuptial agreement will reverse the legislation.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 23, 2020, 09:41:18 AM
Patagonie is still alive  :flowers:
As usual it was expected that the virus will not pass the border like the radioactive cloud of Tchernobyl in 1987 for the simple reason it doesn't own a visa but it finally didn't work.
That what our very high IQ leaders found out last days.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 23, 2020, 09:43:09 AM
Local elections and pressure from their super rich and ultra rich fellows were from the first importance,
Mr and Madam Macron went to the theater to show that nothing bad have to be expected from this variant of the flu.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 23, 2020, 09:44:55 AM
As usual we are always in this country to test 40 colors of gray rather to choose the white color and finally we land in the black, the exact color of what every human drop in the toilets every day provided he is not sick.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on March 23, 2020, 09:50:58 AM
Patagonie is still alive  :flowers:


Good to hear! How's France's fight against the coronavirus? Managing it okay or are hospitals full?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on March 23, 2020, 10:37:54 AM
Thanks for reporting in Pat.
Good to hear from you.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 23, 2020, 11:40:06 AM
You know, this superiority, as whites, we have towards the others countries, but now asians are looking at us with surprise and incomprehension.Surprise and incomprehension because in their culture critisizing an other country is rare.

We tell that healthy people don't need masks.
Translate it by : we are so inorganized, so hypocritical that the reality is we have very low stocks and they are prioritized towards hospitals.

Informations had been hidden most of the time and revealed step by step.

Well, those superb democraties, the first to give lessons to the rest of the world is just a superb bordel (bordel, has to be translated in russian and means the same in french).
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 23, 2020, 11:45:34 AM
Good to hear! How's France's fight against the coronavirus? Managing it okay or are hospitals full?
I have reasonable high level of informations and in many regions we are close to the maximum of beds filled with sicks.
So we are close to our limits and if the flow is bigger, like in Italy, like in war zone, doctors will have to choose who live and who die.

Simple.

But how those heroes, who are fighthing in medical "troops" will be able to fight ???We already lost three doctors now. I pray for them.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 23, 2020, 11:54:18 AM
From the sources I have, 
The virus is muting, starts to hit more and more younger people (below 50) in the list of bad outcomes and has three stems.

The worst is coming IMHO, in France, the next 10 days are the worst if you need high intensive care in urgency unit.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 25, 2020, 12:40:02 PM
So I would advise any man who wants to embark for the eastern Europe to meet women to wait before buying a ticket.
As usual, I recommend to avoid tchatting and messaging new prospects now.
Instead, learn russian and spend time here in this forum. See some originial russian movies with english subtitles to get some understanding of the culture and how men and women behave in the FSU life.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: 2tallbill on March 25, 2020, 05:45:00 PM
Patagonie is still alive  :flowers:
As usual it was expected that the virus will not pass the border like the radioactive cloud of Tchernobyl in 1987 for the simple reason it doesn't own a visa but it finally didn't work.
That what our very high IQ leaders found out last days.

Great to hear that you are healthy and thriving.

Udachi!


Bill
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 29, 2020, 11:54:26 AM
Great to hear that you are healthy and thriving.

Udachi!


Bill
Thank you Bill.Things start to get worse here.
Among acquaintances and family I start to know some cases among them.
So it's like a wave and you know that you stand on a dry soil but the water is going to rise towards you.
And you would like to avoid to fall in the bad 5% of cases... as possible
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on March 30, 2020, 01:32:43 AM
Pat,

we certainly disagree on how to find a partner for life, but I wish you and yours strength during this time and hope to spar with you on the other side ;)


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 02, 2020, 02:51:59 AM
Pat,

we certainly disagree on how to find a partner for life, but I wish you and yours strength during this time and hope to spar with you on the other side ;)
Thank MSB 
I think that you are a good hearted man but you could get better life by taking care more about how you deliver the message rather than the message itself. Generally speaking the life is socially better for people who are agreeable, and when this factor is low it happens that they are suffering from sort of exclusion. And for many reasons being excluded, in a way or an other, has no real benefits.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 02, 2020, 03:05:44 AM
I didn't come here for a while considering in a way that the true foundation of the forum is the possibility to travel, both of us, men and women, to start or build a relationship.
 
Of course we are now bothering of a second wave of the virus, something likely to happen. The question being in which intensity?
 
But I am now considering to move or ask Kiev lady to move in my place.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 02, 2020, 03:07:35 AM
I did my best in the last three months to keep up with my ladies pool.
You never know what will happen in the future and they are free to go any time. 
But the minimum you have to do is to exchange some informations on a daily basis as possible, or on a weekly basis based on the past you have or you don't have. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 02, 2020, 03:10:17 AM
There is no shortage of women.
In fact a fourth one has entrered in the pool.
Surprisingly, but believe me she did it on her own.
SHE recontacted me.
And when a woman do such a thing, there are some intents.And I have talk about some project for her, just to keep her attention on. 
 That's the game.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 02, 2020, 03:23:28 AM
I am not especially active here in my country due to the consequences of the coronavirus that have maintained us low in socials dynamics. 
But the fact is : I have one or two women, potentially, that could come, or who are showing some signs of interest.
As I just play around them with NO, NO expectation, they know that they have to play out their part of their game in an active manner.   
And believe me when a woman is active in exercing some seduction (in a feminine way; you have to read it correctly of course), it's like a race course, you just seat and you enjoy.   
You just seat and enjoy ....  :rolleyes: I mean you have to play your part of the game too. But that's comfortable because you know the music  :P Love is a dual process no?  ;D   
 
That's absolutely a tragedy in the western male world, many are the ones who are not aware of the female competition for the available men. A lot of men are just competiting themselves and never get out of this position. But the opposite can happen also.
And now when it happens, you can feel and understand what happens to women and how it's enpowering them. And indeed how it's enpowering you now. But please consider no arrogance here and no disgusting self contentment. 
As you start to feel "superior" when facing women in social dynamics, which means in a way that you could act like a dickhead, and your attractivness will suffer. Because it will sweat at a time or an other in the communication you are delivering to a woman.

 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 02, 2020, 03:36:25 AM
A large part of the sexual life you get is coming from the intellectuel world that you are creating related to.
 
As soon as you come along about real signs of interest of women in your area your global sexual life improves. We don't speak about the women with whom you go to the sack.  8) We speak about the volume you can give to the broadening fantasms that any private sexual life needs to have.
And this fantasmagorique projection rooted to real social dynamics is enpowering yourself and increasing your level of maliness, which, in return, upgrade your status of attractivness among women.  :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 02, 2020, 03:41:00 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hu8L7psTHQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hu8L7psTHQ)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 02, 2020, 04:01:07 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvzotsxlJLI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvzotsxlJLI)

I cry every time when i hear this one
Dream about this ideal world,
Sitting in a high hi fi sound system with this beautiful image in full hd.
A french red wine glass in the hand.   
And this world of white of sheets, evasive snow
blue eyes swimming in your blood, 
those landscapes of wild northen nudityThe depth of this voice that is submerging your heart so quickly that you forget of how to breathe.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Gator on July 02, 2020, 04:56:29 AM
Pat, 

Happy to read you are safe and still hunting, or at least thinking about it.     
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on July 02, 2020, 08:03:28 AM
Pat, thanks for showing up and providing us more of your French philosophies on women and life in general.

Wife and I are just now watching a series of lectures on the major philosophers from ancient times up to more recent from "The Great Courses" organization.  Pretty deep stuff, but good for our minds.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 02, 2020, 08:31:15 AM
Pat, thanks for showing up and providing us more of your French philosophies on women and life in general.

Wife and I are just now watching a series of lectures on the major philosophers from ancient times up to more recent from "The Great Courses" organization.  Pretty deep stuff, but good for our minds.
Hi ML, hope your health is fine, as your spouse.
Thank you for your kind words.
My uncle long time after retirement, was spending many hours per day reading classics....
Enjoy  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on July 05, 2020, 11:25:03 PM
I didn't come here for a while considering in a way that the true foundation of the forum is the possibility to travel, both of us, men and women, to start or build a relationship.
 
Of course we are now bothering of a second wave of the virus, something likely to happen. The question being in which intensity?
 
But I am now considering to move or ask Kiev lady to move in my place.
I thought the Ukrainian border is open now?

My guess is renting may be better than buying, as the recent resignation of head Central Bank head may be a signal of things to come for the UAH and Ukraine in general.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 06, 2020, 03:48:53 AM
I thought the Ukrainian border is open now?

My guess is renting may be better than buying, as the recent resignation of head Central Bank head may be a signal of things to come for the UAH and Ukraine in general.
 
Yes the ukrainian border is open now.
But what happens is that I will be under a quarantine of 14 days because I am french. And I suppose that if my girlfriend comes, she will be under the same treatment, back in Ukraine.
I am not considering to buy any real estate right now because I am not ready. 
As usual, and for the disgust of most of the ukrainian people, the oligarch show is still playing the band.
So maybe the real estate market could plunge again as it happenend after 2006.Who knows?


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 07, 2020, 02:15:08 AM
So every man in the western countries is struggling with dating applications.
And so they are struggling to date with women. 
Why those dating applications are so much used ? 
Because the datings applications are the easiest way to meet women. 
It's really much more difficult to meet women in cafes or in the street (the last one being the most difficult for the  seduction community). 
So I invite you to see what really happens for Tinder for a really attractive male, with a job that should be of the highest interest for women. 
And now the most interesting is that is a woman who is creating the male profile and using it one week.
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZTIbHIsIYw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZTIbHIsIYw)

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 07, 2020, 02:17:41 AM
Many things in the previous video are well said and true :
After the first peak, matches become scarsity. 
The women answers' are lame (They are mainly coming on Tinder to boost their ego - my opinion or because they have some time to kill)
So where is the patriarchy here ?  :deadhorse:   
We cleary can see that men have the shorter stick here.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 07, 2020, 07:37:30 AM
I have repeatedly wrote, and said, as a motto,

for at least a decade

That, about relationships, 
   
Women don't tell you what they think, and don't think what they say.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 07, 2020, 07:39:00 AM
I repeat :
 
About relationships when a relationship is at stake, Women don't tell you what they think, and don't think what they say.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 07, 2020, 07:40:23 AM
And here it is the demonstration, which I find quite supporting my motto.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlSyjNG546U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlSyjNG546U)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 07, 2020, 07:52:09 AM
It's more likely that women are misleading you because they fear that they will be judged by you, or worst they could get a kind of collective judgment (all people in the party believing she is slut, all her colleagues ... you get the picture).   
A likely "it will destroy my virtue".
   
This is why you should'nt take in account, what they say about relationships between men and women, or when a relationship is at stake. 
Simply ignore and shut your ears.
 
You would like to be empathic, or you would like to conform to her views and be the guy that she is dreaming to meet, BUT the problem is the guy she is describing to you is NOT the guy she will end the night, the week, or the month with.
 
See the problem?


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 07, 2020, 08:04:07 AM
Come on guys, do you really believe that when you explain to her that you prefer the PDK over the Tiptronic gearbox because you get a bonus of 0.3 seconds running a 0-60, do you really believe that she really hears you?
And that she will run the next day to sell her car to the profit of a PDK gearbox? Because this is the holy grail of how a car should be?
No they just smile at you and think that you are crazy to waste so many $, 
So just imitate women, just smile, when they show you the big excel sheet about "what should be the ideal man I would be interest to meet or to be fucked by". Smile and just think ... about how you could shave 0.3 for the next 0-60 with your sportive car. 
 
Doesn't make sense?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 07, 2020, 08:17:00 AM
So 
If you push your efforts on :
1/ attractiveness
2/ how to get funny and create an interesting and vivid time for the woman
3/ have a personality that have some hobbies that create some crossings with women (videogame is NOT an hobby for this, having booze every week with your drunken friends is NOT an hobby also),
     
So you  are more likely to gonna get a second date with a woman you have met on speed dating.
ANd more important with any other women you meet anywhere in the world. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 07, 2020, 08:37:47 AM
Stop to please to the women accordingly with the rules of your culture and start to be yourself.
That's quite difficult, and hardly more than you think.

Let me explain it.
 
The culture tells you "to be yourself", but it's only a copy of what the culture pushes you to do so, because you are only copying some different models.
 
Now if you can substract from the culture the common models and find out what is really efficient (the most difficult part) in the situation, you will start to act by yourself, for yourself. 
Therefore it gives more grip to your life with better results and so you start the virtuous circle to be more enpowered of your VOLONTARY actions. It will come along with some cycles of trials and error but that the soul of life. No one get it right from the first time.   
That's what we call experience.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on July 07, 2020, 07:12:48 PM
Pat - dating apps are almost a paradox; the best and worst for men seeking dates.

The number one way to meet women is in daily life, but depending on where you live, that may not be an option now given enforced or voluntary social avoidance. So using apps now locally is not too dissimilar to using them for foreign introductions. Apps are the best tool available for international introductions (over dating sites, agencies, etc.) but with some caveats.

Based on personal experience, I would recommend Tinder in Russia but not Ukraine. Badoo is arguably better but Tinder has increased in usage in the FSU in recent years. Many women share their Instagram username on Tinder. I never follow women on Instagram. I believe they are just seeking attention and/or immature.

I ran an experiment a couple of months ago as I have two SIM cards. Tinder offered free 'passport' membership for a month so set up one account in my local city and another in Moscow.

One of the limitations of Tinder is you're essentially limited to looks. I only posted three images and a very short description taking the "less is more" approach.

Locally, I found 2-3% of women's profiles attractive. I generally don't find women of other ethnicities attractive and there plenty of trannies, prostitutes, etc. I had one match which I didn't pursue and around a dozen 'likes'.

Moscow, different story. I swiped right on maybe 15-20% of profiles, have around 100 'likes' and dozens of matches with very attractive women. Some are drop dead gorgeous. Much younger than local matches too.

So I deleted the local profile. It was just a waste of time. Go East young man!

I haven't started messaging the Muscovites because I can't get in the country and don't want to waste my time with trivial conversation. I am firmly of the view there needs to be physical chemistry for a relationship to work.

But text conversation with strangers is tricky. In my experience women like men with humor but it doesn't work with unknown people in text messages. You have to develop rapport first before introducing humor. It is often misunderstood across different cultures and languages. I have not figured out an effective way to text flirt with Russian-speaking women I have never met before. Your thoughts Pat?

So potentially I have a dating pool lined up in Russia but I can't get in the country! Very annoying! I'm not going to bother with Tinder locally. I think the last three women I dated in Russia were a lawyer, a dentist and a management consultant - all physically attractive/smoking hot, younger than myself and spoke English... just lack of chemistry.

P.S. I do agree that it is a positive attribute to not give a f*ck what women think of you, confidence in yourself and not requiring social validation. Perhaps a way of defining it is a spirit of good-natured conquest.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 08, 2020, 02:22:22 AM
Pat - dating apps are almost a paradox; the best and worst for men seeking dates.

The number one way to meet women is in daily life, but depending on where you live, that may not be an option now given enforced or voluntary social avoidance. So using apps now locally is not too dissimilar to using them for foreign introductions. Apps are the best tool available for international introductions (over dating sites, agencies, etc.) but with some caveats.

Based on personal experience, I would recommend Tinder in Russia but not Ukraine. Badoo is arguably better but Tinder has increased in usage in the FSU in recent years. Many women share their Instagram username on Tinder. I never follow women on Instagram. I believe they are just seeking attention and/or immature.

I ran an experiment a couple of months ago as I have two SIM cards. Tinder offered free 'passport' membership for a month so set up one account in my local city and another in Moscow.

One of the limitations of Tinder is you're essentially limited to looks. I only posted three images and a very short description taking the "less is more" approach.

Locally, I found 2-3% of women's profiles attractive. I generally don't find women of other ethnicities attractive and there plenty of trannies, prostitutes, etc. I had one match which I didn't pursue and around a dozen 'likes'.

Moscow, different story. I swiped right on maybe 15-20% of profiles, have around 100 'likes' and dozens of matches with very attractive women. Some are drop dead gorgeous. Much younger than local matches too.

So I deleted the local profile. It was just a waste of time. Go East young man!

I haven't started messaging the Muscovites because I can't get in the country and don't want to waste my time with trivial conversation. I am firmly of the view there needs to be physical chemistry for a relationship to work.

But text conversation with strangers is tricky. In my experience women like men with humor but it doesn't work with unknown people in text messages. You have to develop rapport first before introducing humor. It is often misunderstood across different cultures and languages. I have not figured out an effective way to text flirt with Russian-speaking women I have never met before. Your thoughts Pat?

So potentially I have a dating pool lined up in Russia but I can't get in the country! Very annoying! I'm not going to bother with Tinder locally. I think the last three women I dated in Russia were a lawyer, a dentist and a management consultant - all physically attractive/smoking hot, younger than myself and spoke English... just lack of chemistry.

P.S. I do agree that it is a positive attribute to not give a f*ck what women think of you, confidence in yourself and not requiring social validation. Perhaps a way of defining it is a spirit of good-natured conquest.

 
I haven't been enough specific, my fault.
When I wrote above about Tinder and women not telling you what they think and not thinking what they say,It was related to western european women.
 
You are perfectly right, dating apps are the best tool available for international introductions (over dating sites, agencies, etc.) .
 
We have the same experience about Tinder/Badoo when comparing local western countries vs eastern european countries.  No doubt that dating in the eastern european countries is FAR better. Dating life becomes vivid there.
My experience with the locals is even worst than your when we speak about Tinder/Badoo.

You are right, better to not start to talk on Tinder/Badoo while you are not still there. This is something that many men don't understand, and now we are going to see how it is linked with the question you have asked to me. I have not figured out an effective way to text flirt with Russian-speaking women I have never met before. Your thoughts Pat? 
The couple that I own to my admission to the european eastern dating world is a cross cultural couple, she is from Russia he is french. He told me about humour with eastern european women : "better to avoid"

When I had my friendship with a french guy married to an ukrainian women, both owning a marriage agency and living in Ukraine. He told me "expect many crashes to come even during the first meeting when practicing humour".
And my personal experience is not different, and your also RWD123.   
So now what happens to those women? First of all many have come under many disappointments with their own men, but many will not tell you because gossiping about their own privacy with a stranger, and more over a foreigner is not in their minds. So they have some mistrut, coming from the culture, and from their experience.
As a result they don't want to invest themselves in what they consider as just a starting contact; till you can prove that you are worth of more consideration. 
 
It's not that humour is not on the book when it comes about the qualities that they are waiting from a man. That's quite the opposite. I mean, just scroll hundreds of russian or ukrainian women profiles (not profiles coming from an agency, because it's written by the agency), and you will see that humour is something highly desired.
 
Additionnaly there is a problem in language, as many don't master english enough to understand elaborate jokes or humour, and what make you laugh is probably not funny for her (I had many crashes with humour, lost many women, and still crashing sometimes with FSU girlfriends, fortunately I didn't loose my value). 
This is the MAIN problem with humour with FSU women.   
The problem is that we spend a LOT of time to chichat and talk in the european countries, it's an art in itself, it's a proof of value (DHV demonstration of high value) , elaborated humour being part of the value of course, and we would like those women to step in OUR process. But no,  for all the reasons I have explained above, that's not, or rarely gonna to happen.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 08, 2020, 02:23:45 AM
To make it simple :
Europeans guys try to use humour to fire up and intensify a CONNECTION, while FSU women are FIRST waiting a connection before stepping in a more personal dynamic, humour could be an intensifier.

It's too much effort for them to uplift themselves to YOUR humour, and as you have demonstrated at this level
of relationship no proved value, they are not gonna to make this effort.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on July 08, 2020, 06:49:30 AM
That's my challenge with texts. I can't use humor or body language which is my natural way of flirting.

I just decided to try another Tinder experiment on local women. Changed the order of the photos so that the picture with young female friends is first, and added the following text, "Getting bored with banging airheads. Any women with beauty AND brains out there?" Implicitly passing myself off as a f*ck boy and challenging the women...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 08, 2020, 07:01:13 AM
That's my challenge with texts. I can't use humor or body language which is my natural way of flirting.

I just decided to try another Tinder experiment on local women. Changed the order of the photos so that the picture with young female friends is first, and added the following text, "Getting bored with banging airheads. Any women with beauty AND brains out there?" Implicitly passing myself off as a f*ck boy and challenging the women...
Quite an interesting test to be done on field.   ;D Fitted to the western market. 

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on July 09, 2020, 06:11:52 AM
Quite an interesting test to be done on field.   ;D Fitted to the western market.
It is very early statistics, but I've received as many likes in 24 hours being a "bad boy" as I received in about two weeks with a more neutral profile. Same photos, same age. The women that come up appear to be more attractive as well, so I'm assuming this profile has moved me "up the algorithm".

I would NOT do this on my Russian profile, because I want to attract women with different motivations.

Pat - maybe you should try one of these profiles. :D

http://youtu.be/MSq54f2JT_U
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 10, 2020, 02:03:44 AM
You make my day.
I cannot stop laughing.
 
But the truth is that all those things are coming for real.
I mean, in the west :
They want you to make some elaborated answers 
But on an other hand they are the first to start with" Hi", "How are you" for their introduction lines.
That's for real, every guy who has gone in dating apps know this.
This is what I call double standards.
 
But more I dig the world and more I find double standards with women.
And so we come back to what I wrote in this forum just one page above : 
When it comes about relationships, women don't say what they think and don't think what they say.
 
And because of our culture we are still landed in a "words are action and you do what you say". Men are expected to do such a thing (women tricks' favorite) while they naturally don't for an infinity of reasons.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 10, 2020, 02:27:50 AM
If the ad in Tinder looks like totaly insane it brings back some value that puts instantly the women

in the game  :P

What are the values ?
First of all there is now a trend towards beautiful or very beautiful men, they want their Mister Klein you know in the INstagramm collection.

So what is the winner combination in this (hilarious) ad, when a man is promoting that he is a child rapist, problems with the law, and "I am on Tinder because maybe if i fuck some of you sluts I'll stop wanting to be with kids (unlikely imao, they're way tighter than your beef curtain caints)."
 
And so you see wome women throwing themselves into the "fuck me please, do it right now". That's unbelievable but it works. Why?
 
The guy is super super hot on the photo and belong to the model collection (high value).
The guy announces is a bad guy right away.
The guy is using crude words
The guy need to be corrected and helped (your future role girls)
This guy has some humanity : honesty, ask for forgiveness, that is totally worth of for women
 
So woman can do every dirty thing WITHOUT FEARING ANY JUDGEMENT from this guy.
Because he is out of morale himself.
Do you understand how exciting it could be for a woman ?







Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on July 10, 2020, 02:45:35 AM
I realise we are discussing FSU W on Pat's thread, but COME ON...is he seriously expecting a lasting relationship or a 'jump' with any of his pen pals.....?

Is this our Rhoosh..?  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 10, 2020, 02:49:19 AM
They are sexualizing now right away, it's formulated less or more depending of their education.
The ones who contacted this guy were wet right away.
 
It's like you know if you have a mega sexual bomb who looks like a top model and she wrote on TInder "you know guys I am a pro but I was in jail last three years and so I am restarting now. I want to tell you that we can have hot time together for free during the next couple of days before I am really back on the track and ask money to my clients". 
This is the translation for men of what was written to the women.
I know a lot of guys who will rush to answer, it is known as lust.   
Lust is terribly exciting for women and because this guy is a criminal their guards are right away off.
So you want to handcuff me to the bed but maybe you are sexual abuser ? How I can trust you after what you wrote me on Tinder. 
See the situation now with this ad: 
So you want to handcuff me to the bed ? when are you available ? (implicitely -->  I know who you are because you honestly told  that are a sexual child abuser.) 
See the feminine logic here?
 
 
This guy is the perfect guy 10000% to make those women their naughty side to be true. And this naughty side is DAMNED exciting no? It's why they are horny in the next seconds they have finished to read the ad, because women READ men's ads. 
 
You can see how fast they are giving their personal details while you, as normal guy you spent endless time to get ONE phone number. LOL
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on July 10, 2020, 03:07:53 AM
This is so funny!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97E_l-B3WCo
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 10, 2020, 07:30:51 AM
If you want to have a funny time you can also watch this one :

I couldn't stop laughing watching her face each time.  :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
 
 


 
A guy was writing in the comments :When a woman do this it's a successful marriage or relationship, and when a man does such a thing that's a crime.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 10, 2020, 03:12:38 PM
So guys to tell you the story in two sentences :


I started a business with 200000$ to get back millions of $ and finally I lost my capital.

A gold digger had been siphoned of 200000 $ by a scam artist.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 10, 2020, 03:13:24 PM
RWD 123 thank you very much because I cannot stop laughing since this morning.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 10, 2020, 03:16:03 PM
The piece of the cake of the video is when she starts crying. I am not sure to be able to sleep, I cannot stop laughing.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on July 13, 2020, 05:15:06 AM
Hey Pat, more LOLs. I decided to try another "bad boy" profile on a different dating app using the following text:

"Not sure I'm interested in getting involved with a married woman again, lol. No fat chicks, feminists or vegans. Must have intelligence. #standardslol #whatev"

I have received more likes than with a neutral profile! (Same photos, same age, etc.) I did also get a moderator warning, I guess some fat woman was offended by my standards, lol. :D :D :D I'm still not interested in local dating though.

It's actually making me reconsider my Russian Tinder profile, or running two different profiles when I return... "good cop, bad cop" style.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 15, 2020, 12:16:09 PM
Hey Pat, more LOLs. I decided to try another "bad boy" profile on a different dating app using the following text:

"Not sure I'm interested in getting involved with a married woman again, lol. No fat chicks, feminists or vegans. Must have intelligence. #standardslol #whatev"

I have received more likes than with a neutral profile! (Same photos, same age, etc.) I did also get a moderator warning, I guess some fat woman was offended by my standards, lol. :D :D :D I'm still not interested in local dating though.

It's actually making me reconsider my Russian Tinder profile, or running two different profiles when I return... "good cop, bad cop" style.
Nicely done.
But be careful with the russian profile about "western" humour.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 15, 2020, 12:24:35 PM
In 2012 Nathan Oesch Department of Experimental Psychology Oxford studied two books related to the Game and discussed the implications in terms of evolutionary psychology.
                   
The main conclusion is :   
                   
It  would  seem  clear  that  there  is  in  fact  a  substantive  degree  of  psychological research to support many claims made by the Community. The three reputed phases  of  courtship,  Attraction, building  mutual Comfort  and  Trust,  and  Seduction,  are  supported by a significant and steadily growing literature based in physiological, social and evolutionary   psychology   research.   Men   and   women   have   evolved   opposing   sexual   strategies, often leading to a conflict of interests, creating significant discord and confusion with  respect  to  mate  selection  (Buss  and  Schmitt,  1993).  Given  the  frustration  and  confusion  many  singles  currently  experience  in the  dating  marketplace,  this  knowledge  could  be  an  important  aid  to  couples  reducing  conflict,  frustration  and  finding  fulfilling  relationships.
 

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/147470491201000511 (http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/147470491201000511)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: krimster2 on July 15, 2020, 01:22:11 PM
a better way to meet women online is to have a “honeypot” of some kind....

suppose for example, you had a web site about growing rare orchids in your green house
and then in the “About Me” part, you put your professionally taken model level photos

even if you were only half as good looking as me,
I guarantee you AT LEAST 100 women under age 40 per month from around the world will be writing to you!
and if you EVER sent them some of your orchids....
100% you’d get an “invitation”

just sayin, that’s how easy it is for a smart guy now
and in another year, will even be 10 times easier
and you won’t have to travel
because the women will be desperate to come to you

hell yes,
have my little farm house out in the country, and get some women lookin for a quiet, safe place to stay, free of charge
I’d have a harem twice, no three times, the size of the one I already have!
giving protection and shelter and support to a bunch of desperate young women
who would ALL be EAGER to please me

the first thing to teach them is “obedience”
after they learn that
then the rest is easy

I'm tellin ya
that a year from now
if I wanted to...
I could have a cult of young girls living with me
and doing exactly whatever it was I wanted them to do and when I wanted them to do it...
like naked house cleaning?
that's right, the women in my house do all the cleaning without wearing ANY clothing!
even going so far as getting on hands and knees scrubbing the floor at the same time
from that position, I can't tell who is who....

these women will do whatever I want
as long as I am willing to put up with the hassle of "taking care of and protecting them"

a year from now
there will be an infinite supply of poor young women lookin for a "sugar daddy"
help yourself to as many as you want
and become their daddy
it's EASY and FUN!
and who cares, cuz civilization is gonna collapse soon anyway, right?
so you might as well try and save some of these girls, right?






Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 15, 2020, 02:02:32 PM
Krimster : 
"from that position, I can't tell who is who...."

   :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 15, 2020, 04:19:02 PM
a better way to meet women online is to have a “honeypot” of some kind....

suppose for example, you had a web site about growing rare orchids in your green house
and then in the “About Me” part, you put your professionally taken model level photos

even if you were only half as good looking as me,
I guarantee you AT LEAST 100 women under age 40 per month from around the world will be writing to you!
and if you EVER sent them some of your orchids....
100% you’d get an “invitation”

just sayin, that’s how easy it is for a smart guy now
and in another year, will even be 10 times easier
and you won’t have to travel
because the women will be desperate to come to you

hell yes,
have my little farm house out in the country, and get some women lookin for a quiet, safe place to stay, free of charge
I’d have a harem twice, no three times, the size of the one I already have!
giving protection and shelter and support to a bunch of desperate young women
who would ALL be EAGER to please me

the first thing to teach them is “obedience”
after they learn that
then the rest is easy

I'm tellin ya
that a year from now
if I wanted to...
I could have a cult of young girls living with me
and doing exactly whatever it was I wanted them to do and when I wanted them to do it...
like naked house cleaning?
that's right, the women in my house do all the cleaning without wearing ANY clothing!
even going so far as getting on hands and knees scrubbing the floor at the same time
from that position, I can't tell who is who....

these women will do whatever I want
as long as I am willing to put up with the hassle of "taking care of and protecting them"

a year from now
there will be an infinite supply of poor young women lookin for a "sugar daddy"
help yourself to as many as you want
and become their daddy
it's EASY and FUN!
and who cares, cuz civilization is gonna collapse soon anyway, right?
so you might as well try and save some of these girls, right?

 
You are far richer than me mon ami.
We know that a lot of women have a kind of transactionnal dynamics so it's quite easy to come along the sugar daddy stuff and even quicker than many think (if you are realistic and a believer of the truth), 
Having a mansion in a remote area in Ukraine could be a pussy paradise.
 But for many reasons I prefer the biggest cities, and even the capital. So to setup a mansion in Kiev, no way I have the means.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 15, 2020, 04:35:27 PM
If you want to have a funny time you can also watch this one :

I couldn't stop laughing watching her face each time.  :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
   


 
 
  Oh something went wrong with the link here it is, have a good time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZPshiw0z48&feature=emb_title (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZPshiw0z48&feature=emb_title)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 15, 2020, 04:50:35 PM
So dudes if you have something fun to add, do it.
 
I find the world quite depressive since mars and many things are so boring or negative.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: krimster2 on July 15, 2020, 05:40:55 PM
Pat,

housing doesn’t have to be expensive in Russia or Ukraine.
just like in the USA, there is a big price difference based on location
stay away from big apartments downtown...

instead, go live in some satellite village outside a big city
then what you wanna do is
buy “dacha land”, this is land “out in the country”
such land is sold usually in 20 sotek parcels for $4,000 and up per parcel

I bought 3 contiguous parcels in a row and made a mega dacha
my total cost for the land and building this house from the ground up was $54,000 which included a heating system and a western style bathroom on each floor and a garage

after that, I built a few out buildings to raise animals in
and used a backhoe to dig out a 24 meter by 16 meter swimming pool
built the frame and filled it with concrete
used local labor and materials, but I was my own “contractor”

I did part of the plumbing of this house myself, it was really difficult doing this over there
but I got it all done
this is a pic of me the day I did the plumbing with the house in the background
yes, I was frazzled that day, shower still not working!!....

drilled a deep water well and installed an in ground pump
filled the pool, which took all week!!!!

but then...

Every girl and young woman within a mile showed up at my pool sooner or later
all the local families are VERY poor, most of these girls couldn’t afford a bathing suit
so they swam in their underwear or naked....

the blond in the pic, was my neighbor’s 18 yr old daughter
she would always wait for my wife to leave home then she’d come over and “skinny dip” in the pool
I would see her, and then come out and discover her by “surprise”
she would come out of the pool and let me dry her off
I could take the towel and touch her all over
but, I knew that was all that I could do
otherwise her father would kill me

this was the first of two swimming pools I have owned
I would estimate that thanks to the privilege of owning swimming pools
I have seen about 100 sets of titties that I would otherwise NOT have seen
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 16, 2020, 02:07:18 PM
Thank for the great advice Krim, I always read curiously what you write, considering the unexpected and creative way to have to come along life.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 16, 2020, 02:43:07 PM
I have learnt from the down of the heart
That you cannot let yourself diving in the tea pot
Un slow de rêve qui te gagne dans l'alcôve secrète
Et la multiplicité des nombres se joue au gré des occurrences
 
those ones that you play again any logic
Just life speading in the night 
 Et je sens  pouvoir jusqu'au creux de mon coeur Et il va embraser toutes ces femmes qui prient dans l'autel de la Grande Sophie
 
Could I be a unicorn? 
Who are the sex symbol?  I just connect emotions into the ring while those ghosts in shade of grey cross the finishing line
Je lance le dé dans l'arène de la séduction, 
ils rebondissent dans la cage folle du désir et se multiplient comme si la matière était aussi généreuse que la chair. 
 Polygamy, monogamy monotony, polychromy fantasy,
 
And I fly over the night thinking au lendemain,
All those hands et la pudeur qui vient se nouer à l'arc de mes deltoïdes pendant que mes phalanges jouent avec ton dos gaînée d'une nudité profonde et provocante.Pêcher corps à corps et mourir des parallèles trop parfaits
S'abandonner à la volupté lorsque le printemps gèle jusqu'aux parfums exhalés
 
I cannot stop to play the intense field of the italians lyrics
cannot stop to hit the gas while the V8 of the Corvette is crying
Sending flowers to the lions of the belvédère et croquer ta langue
pendant que ton coeur écartelé sur le lit de satin bleu gémit de cette brûlure impatiente
 
I cannot remind a name but I can call every rose
I close my eyes while the tunderstorm is just coming 
Je t'attends sur la haute volée des marches qui mènent au clocher
Nous regarderons ensemble la cloche immobile et ta main, 
dans la sueur de ton désir viendra chercher la fraîcheur de mon âme soeur.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 16, 2020, 03:03:04 PM
Maybe the 9 of the beginning of the year could be back on the track.
The communication has restarted.
 
I sent her an invitation to a party I am preparing.
Something short and totally factual.
She answered and I open her a door.
She took it.
And proposed to meet again.
Need to be confirmed.
 
Just stay open, don't replay immediatly and speed up your pace if she is speeding her pace.
Don't write longer than she writes.
And, that's an art, choose every word you tell her. Be sincere, be real, take care of her. Be positive.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 16, 2020, 03:06:18 PM
So one could be back, maybe.
 
And today an other one has gone.
She cancealed a picnic scheduled for tomorrow.
 
You have some disappointment ... five seconds no more. And all has gone.
Life is so amazing.
 
I told her in the polite form that she has to make a move if she wants to see me again.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 16, 2020, 03:09:25 PM
I invited an other one to the party, don't know yet is she will come. 
But everything is quite explosive with this one. 
It's like an IED, if I randomely cross her way and fall on the trigger ...  :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 16, 2020, 03:24:06 PM
I have also an other ukrainian woman that I know for 3 years and she recontacted me.
   
To make it short.
She was supposed to call me but she didn't.
 
After this she started to write about a distant member of her family who needs a surgery and there is an ongoing national raising about this.  I have nothing to give money to such cause and I first wanted to help.
 
But she started to send me more and more documents about this and suddenly I taught, ok for the first time you ask me to help your family, even if it's no one I never met (I know her lovely daughter), but what's about human beings ? Is this a shit test? Why not, but you have to first do your homework.
 
So I wrote : haven't forget something?
SHe says : no, what? 
I told her : If you cannot remind it just means that's worthless, you don't care.
I waited some time but she couldn't figure out what was wrong,
so finally I resent her a link of her message saying that she will call me.   
Now the shit test is reversed ... lol she is tested.   
   
If you don't setup some respect no relationship is gonna to start. 
 
She us supposed to call me. If a woman wants you she will show you, especially FSU women who are rarely sending mixed signals.
If no, it means that she is no so interested. Meanwhile stop to be the knight.
 
There is a previous history with this woman, she wanted me to step in a a marriage while she had a second branch to go along, a canadian guy who finally dismissed her.
So please don't play to me the "I am the expensive gift", thank no.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 17, 2020, 01:49:16 PM
I invited an other one to the party, don't know yet is she will come. 
But everything is quite explosive with this one. 
It's like an IED, if I randomely cross her way and fall on the trigger ...  :P

 
This one will come tomorrow.
She has one of the most beautiful back that I have rarely seen in my life.
 
How are you rating the back of a woman fellows,  erotically I mean?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 17, 2020, 02:25:02 PM
Je regardais l'ascenseur et ses sept boutons perlés de cristal
La fille me tournait le dos et un sourire mi-clos irisait le miroir
 
Je me détournais pour profiter du reflet indirect de sa nudité
Elle avait les pupilles pers et je devinais son souffle plus court d'une octave
 
Jouer n'est pas souffler,
Let me do the first dance, take your hand in the darkwhile other people don't even notice that the dessert had been stolen
Je frôlerai la coque du Poseidon
Les turbines du yacht surpuissant frémiront
alors que la courbe de tes hanches au plus près de ma nonchalance
voudra me toiser, je m'approcherai alors à pas feutrés
 
Je surprendrai ton sourire sans me soucier du commissaire de piste
Et ta respiration profonde mourra sous le poids de ma fortitude. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on July 17, 2020, 02:45:44 PM

 
This one will come tomorrow.
She has one of the most beautiful back that I have rarely seen in my life.
 
How are you rating the back of a woman fellows,  erotically I mean?

I look to see if there are any open sores.

Scars from previous use of whip are also a concern.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 17, 2020, 03:25:11 PM
I look to see if there are any open sores.

Scars from previous use of whip are also a concern.
:ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 19, 2020, 06:02:24 AM

 
This one will come tomorrow.
She has one of the most beautiful back that I have rarely seen in my life.
 
How are you rating the back of a woman fellows,  erotically I mean?
So she was ready to make the move to this party, called me. Was happy and quite excited.
But finally saturday morning she sent a message, writing a silly excuse.
 
MIXED signals
 
I found few  women in former soviet union (FSU) women being indecisive. Most of them because they are not so much interested in you and some because this is there nature. 
But I found really more undecisive women in France compared to the FSU ones. And I think that the number of women not interesting in you is probably higher, but on an other hand there are also more undecisive women by nature.   
 
And the second reason clearly belongs and on some troubles with their own personalities (family inheritage) and also because the culture pushed them to assume a behavior that is less and less linked with their feminity.




Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 19, 2020, 08:47:57 AM
So how to answer and how to behave in such situation?
 
As Faux Pas told me one time, the silence is the best treatment. I do agree.
As I somehow, more than less, know  this woman, every hour passing by speed up her guilt.Because she perfectly know that her excuse is lame. 
 
So if that's a party it's not really a problem, first of all, people who are coming, many are friends, and friendship is above a possible target. 
 
If you set up a date you better of setting two dates,   
 with two girls and at last moment figure out what is going on.
So if you end with two at the end, in the best case, you cancel one with the same usual shit excuse they do on you, you are seek, your best friend broke his car far away and you have to make a trip of 200 miles back and forth, anything like this.
 Don't forget to apologize as much as possible, be sweet and tell her that you really want to see her soon.   
That's what they do constantly on a daily basis, switching any propositions and putting the best on the top of their schedule, even at the last minute.






Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 19, 2020, 09:13:27 AM
So please notice that no one is emotionnaly empty.
So everyone is suffering from such behavior.
However the shorter is the best.

But that's all the problem.
Some men could enrage for days or even for weeks, is the situation is repeated.They could start to be angry with women, have a bad behavior, or avoid them, fall in any Red Pill, MGTOW, incels or anything like that. And now they start to bad mouthing women...

Generally speaking you shouldn't give a s.....That's the theory.
It only works if you have a lot of opportunities and tons of women around.
 
 
One of the best thing, whatever your feeling is towards the game, is that people who are involved are more in control 
first of all of their own emotions.
It is believed that players are supposed to control women, which is a common belief, but really who can control someone? That's of course stupid.
No you learn more to control yourself and you have never been used to control your emotions with women because this western culture is constantly cultivating the praise of the expression of the peak of emotions.
Be yourself, express yourself and you will be rewarded?
By what and by who? 
 
And that's for the worse, because in the extrem version of those emotions, it leads to violence.
Controlling emotions (yours) with a woman are one of the most difficult thing for a man in the western world IMHO.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on July 20, 2020, 02:34:24 AM
If you set up a date you better of setting two dates,   
(http://imgix.mic.com/mic/36g245luhxgc8m7hzlpmidxjw5fdflzjpelenqtmnx7xj1cesh3tjt66sdszeqvs.gif)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on July 20, 2020, 03:09:43 AM
Generally speaking you shouldn't give a s.....That's the theory.
It only works if you have a lot of opportunities and tons of women around.   
Men seek abundance and women seek scarcity. Men who attract more women will in turn be more attractive to women. So as a man you need to create opportunities to catch fish and throw some back in the pond.

The desired outcome (relationship) may be the goal but you need to enjoy the process. The outcome is a result of the process. It's called living a full life... c'est la vie.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on July 20, 2020, 03:25:39 AM
Have a look what is the most used Lifestyle app in Russia, more than Tinder!: http://www.similarweb.com/apps/top/google/app-index/ru/lifestyle/top-free/


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: 2tallbill on July 20, 2020, 10:05:30 AM
You make my day.
I cannot stop laughing.
 
But the truth is that all those things are coming for real.
I mean, in the west :
They want you to make some elaborated answers 
But on an other hand they are the first to start with" Hi", "How are you" for their introduction lines.
That's for real, every guy who has gone in dating apps know this.
This is what I call double standards.
 
But more I dig the world and more I find double standards with women.
And so we come back to what I wrote in this forum just one page above : 
When it comes about relationships, women don't say what they think and don't think what they say.
 
And because of our culture we are still landed in a "words are action and you do what you say". Men are expected to do such a thing (women tricks' favorite) while they naturally don't for an infinity of reasons.

Pat,

You are not a newbie and don't need a bunch of advice. 

I wouldn't use the game/frame stuff with FSUW. ALL men in the
FSU are badboys for the age of women that you will be after.
You would be trying to beat them at their own game, better
to beat them at/with your game.

Funny/cocky works in the FSU, bad boy doesn't (in my opinion).
If you want me to explain in more detail I can.

Udachi!

Bill


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 20, 2020, 11:57:04 AM
(http://imgix.mic.com/mic/36g245luhxgc8m7hzlpmidxjw5fdflzjpelenqtmnx7xj1cesh3tjt66sdszeqvs.gif)
   :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 20, 2020, 12:11:30 PM
Pat,

You are not a newbie and don't need a bunch of advice. 

I wouldn't use the game/frame stuff with FSUW. ALL men in the
FSU are badboys for the age of women that you will be after.
You would be trying to beat them at their own game, better
to beat them at/with your game.

Funny/cocky works in the FSU, bad boy doesn't (in my opinion).
If you want me to explain in more detail I can.

Udachi!

Bill
 
To be frank the game as it had been taught by Mystery during the Hollywood Project is not exactly the type of things that I am playing.
   
Ant to be specific I do things differently, depending the countries.
So, when I write girls don't think what they say and don't think what they say about relationship it's for the western world.
Things are more upfront with FSU women, especially if you go for a marriage and you start to explain it from the scratch.
 
Now the funny/cocky comedy (it's a De Angelo stuff) I play it both in the west and in the east for a long time. But of course slightly differently because humour should'nt be used the same way for FSU women or western women, more question of tempo. 
A large part of my writing communication is cocky/funny on both scenes. And also in the real life but without overplaying it (we are not teenagers). 
But it would be interesting you to remind us how you see the things.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 21, 2020, 05:52:52 AM
My post is not to badmouthing women but more to (repeatdly) open men' eyes due to the fact that many don't know so much women. 
 
Many had few relationships.
SOme others have their views tainted by religion, but at the end the result is the same.
Some others are lazy intellectually and don't want to search and dig anything. 
Some others are litterally invaded by their culture, the messages spreaded by the medias and they believe that this "truth" is their "truth".   
So I repeatdly wrote that women cheat as much than men, which is the minimalist introduction that I can do on the topic. 
 
In fact women are basically not so much suffering from cheating considering they initiate divorce and splitting in proportion of 75/80%.
 Kids, assets, all the court system advantage them without a doubt.
 
Not so much responsability comes along.   
They also cheat for different reasons. And one of them is like a revenge against the spouse because the guy didn't do what they expected from him.
They have no fear and don't feel ashamed most of the times. They find some good reasons to excuse themselves and to discharge themselves of any wrong doing. Because the guy was supposed to have done a wrong doing, they are entitle to cheat.
 Or because they think they are entitled of a unreasonable treatment they feel that they can get rid of respecting their partner.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 21, 2020, 05:54:16 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05DqiNM8jt4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05DqiNM8jt4)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 21, 2020, 08:16:23 AM
For the men who are coming here, because they are facing an uncomfortable feeling of their own reality, a containment of their personality in the western world. 
 
ANd for those men, who are interested in FSU women. And for all those who have approched them, locally or during travels, you KNOW that something is going on, something different in the women/men men/women relationships.
I would say that you are not reading me accidentaly.
 
I mean that we are more and more facing this uncomfort of our position as men in the western society. SOmething intrusive, something hidden but real, that strikes us psychologically first. 
 
Looking for a FSU woman, is part or the Rationnal process that a man is triggering, because, it's his nature, he tries to find out some logical answers to anything that bothers and affects him severely.
 
It's not just because FSU women are just good looking, more traditionnal....
 
Focusing on physical attributes of FSU women is just saying, again, that you would like to find a more open sexual market where you have more chances. 
 
Which is again mirrorring the fact that the western dating scene is frustrating for a man, leaving aside many men.
So if you cannot even live the most basical experience which is, in every specie, to cross the genitals of the male and female, how are you gonna to build the more elaborated form of union in the human specie, which is named a marriage for example?

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 21, 2020, 08:29:48 AM
I want you, men and women 
       Women including women from the eastern Europe, but also bystanders, even women offuscated by men wanting "exotic" women
to redraw the complete scene
 
And consider that men are just facing a shortage in mating possibilities, whatever the end could be. Marriage, long term relationship or ONS.
 
THis shortage is not only about the chances to find a mate, but also what they are interested to find in those women (foreign women).
 
It could come as a shock, but this last one also interests men.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: GQBlues on July 21, 2020, 08:31:56 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05DqiNM8jt4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05DqiNM8jt4)

Just as much?!? LMAO!

I've long said this on this board, IME women were far more weaker when it comes to the temptation of the flesh. It's delusional to believe anything otherwise.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 21, 2020, 08:49:17 AM
I have already provided some advices to the western dudes.
 
There is something that many didn't get from the beginning.
And this is one of the reason they absolutely should protect themselves. And do it with an absolute care and a lot of attention.

What you didn't get is that women are all times trying to mate a male of upper status, at least of the same status.

Of course we should define what's a status is, but everyone knows the common sense. It includes what's your lifestyle is. This lifestyle is associated with your monthly wage and properties (to make it simple).
Every time you are transferring this purchase power on women you are climbing down the social ladder of the HVM (high value man).
It doesn't mean that you should avoid your duties. LIke paying your taxes or your alimonies for children, but you should minimize as possible transferring part of your HVM (whatever PUA tell you to get some clients, please consider that HVM worthiness comes ALSO of your socio-economical status, no doubt about this).
 
Do you believe that women are not actively searching HVM men? Do you really?
So read David Buss.
 
Do you believe that this new wave of feminists will change something in dating?
Read what they have written about a book named female dating strategy.   
Even feminists are sticking on the traditional HVM, they don't want to share the bill, and they want to put their names on everything (their own words). I let you make your own guess about what should be included in "everything"
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Confederate on July 21, 2020, 09:06:09 AM
Just as much?!? LMAO!

I've long said this on this board, IME women were far more weaker when it comes to the temptation of the flesh. It's delusional to believe anything otherwise.

Word!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on July 21, 2020, 09:08:41 AM

If you set up a date you better of setting two dates,   
 with two girls and at last moment figure out what is going on.
So if you end with two at the end, in the best case, you cancel one with the same usual shit excuse they do on you, you are seek, your best friend broke his car far away and you have to make a trip of 200 miles back and forth, anything like this.
 Don't forget to apologize as much as possible, be sweet and tell her that you really want to see her soon.   
That's what they do constantly on a daily basis, switching any propositions and putting the best on the top of their schedule, even at the last minute.

This a PERFECT example of a clueless dater getting the treatment he deserves and some idiots think he is giving out 'sound advice'?

Pat seems to be on 'operation revenge' on all FSU W...

This is JUST the sort of 'advice' that explains why

1/ Pat has no show dates..NEVER, EVER has happened to me in my life... All I do different is ensure the lady is genuine.

2/ Why spend all that money to visit a place and be stood up....? Those who behave like it is 'cool to behave in such a fashion are indeed the one's who have have it done to them and STILL they wonder why...?







Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 21, 2020, 10:06:13 AM
This a PERFECT example of a clueless dater getting the treatment he deserves and some idiots think he is giving out 'sound advice'?

Pat seems to be on 'operation revenge' on all FSU W...

This is JUST the sort of 'advice' that explains why

1/ Pat has no show dates..NEVER, EVER has happened to me in my life... All I do different is ensure the lady is genuine.

2/ Why spend all that money to visit a place and be stood up....? Those who behave like it is 'cool to behave in such a fashion are indeed the one's who have have it done to them and STILL they wonder why...?

2/

2/
The post just above was specifying :

So she was ready to make the move to this party, called me. Was happy and quite excited.
But finally saturday morning she sent a message, writing a silly excuse.
 
MIXED signals
 
I found few  women in former soviet union (FSU) women being indecisive. Most of them because they are not so much interested in you and some because this is there nature. 
But I found really more undecisive women in France compared to the FSU ones. And I think that the number of women not interesting in you is probably higher, but on an other hand there are also more undecisive women by nature.   
 
And the second reason clearly belongs and on some troubles with their own personalities (family inheritage) and also because the culture pushed them to assume a behavior that is less and less linked with their feminity.
 
WHICH means that what you read is applying for the western dating scene.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 21, 2020, 10:31:26 AM
Word!

With the age I started to open my eyes. Especially in my job.
But also I got many confidences of female friends who were some insiders observing and telling me the stories of their own female friends, that's also includes my ex wife.

Men, more than women have an incredible capacity of deny when it comes along women. In this department women are less blinded.

Women are also are equipped with a black box.
Wow I wrote it.
I will come back one day on this one, this is a discovery of mine.
They are ALL equipped with a black box, but probably around half will use it while the others don't even open it for their whole life.
 
Why I am telling you about this black box : because this is the place where they store their dirty secrets.
This is an other advantage of women : they are all equipped with a black trunk while men are facing a less professional option, starting from the shelf to the corner's garage.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: GQBlues on July 21, 2020, 10:48:18 AM

With the age I started to open my eyes. Especially in my job.
But also I got many confidences of female friends who were some insiders observing and telling me the stories of their own female friends, that's also includes my ex wife.

Men, more than women have an incredible capacity of deny when it comes along women. In this department women are less blinded....

You 'almost' nailed it, Pat. Not sure what you referred to as 'black box'...but the reason women are more prone to infidelity is because men, dogs as we are, do it purely on the physical level. Whereas women mix the physical temptation emotionally - making them a little more prone, or vulnerable, in crossing the fine line. It doesn't take much for a 'man' who can see through this either to close that deal.

Women have an insatiable appetite to be sexually desired.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 21, 2020, 11:08:41 AM
You 'almost' nailed it, Pat. Not sure what you referred to as 'black box'...but the reason women are more prone to infidelity is because men, dogs as we are, do it purely on the physical level. Whereas women mix the physical temptation emotionally - making them a little more prone, or vulnerable, in crossing the fine line. It doesn't take much for a 'man' who can see through this either to close that deal.

Women have an insatiable appetite to be sexually desired.
:thumbsup:
Well said, with women the level of emotions is always higher, sometimes, it's ONLY about romance.
Many, even married, and faithfull !!! are still playing the field,  wanting to know what their level of attraction is.
In this sense it's never totally a passive way.
 
Many would like to teach us that they are pure innocents and we, men, are just seeing everything as a sexual stroke (stroke in transactionnal analysis, is an emotional exchange varying from the very little to the biggest one)
But we know that's not so simple ...  :D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Confederate on July 21, 2020, 11:21:25 AM
You 'almost' nailed it, Pat. Not sure what you referred to as 'black box'...but the reason women are more prone to infidelity is because men, dogs as we are, do it purely on the physical level. Whereas women mix the physical temptation emotionally - making them a little more prone, or vulnerable, in crossing the fine line. It doesn't take much for a 'man' who can see through this either to close that deal.

Women have an insatiable appetite to be sexually desired.

Hmmm.

Some Male strippers for an all female audience might disagree with you that married women also need an emotional attachment to cheat.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: GQBlues on July 21, 2020, 12:00:41 PM
Ahh!

Notice I never said 'need' - I said they 'mix' the two. They can do one without the other, or both. Making them a bit more susceptible.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: krimster2 on July 21, 2020, 12:24:54 PM
a Russian woman will ONLY cheat on you
if she thinks you would cheat on her...
otherwise the majority won’t cheat on you
unless you did the same to them first

if you ever have a wife, girl friend who lies to you
or betrays you in ANY way...
dump her immediately!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 21, 2020, 02:39:10 PM
a Russian woman will ONLY cheat on you
if she thinks you would cheat on her...
otherwise the majority won’t cheat on you
unless you did the same to them first

if you ever have a wife, girl friend who lies to you
or betrays you in ANY way...
dump her immediately!
 
May I be the exception of this rule  :popcorn: ;D :D ?
Because I never had the intention to cheat on my wife, never did during the time we were together, never did during the time she was with an other man, and even few months after she has gone, I stayed single. :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: krimster2 on July 21, 2020, 07:07:08 PM
maybe your ex-wife had a compulsion to cheat, and so no matter what YOU did, she was going to cheat on you or any man for that matter....

I have been lucky
all the Russian women in my life have been EXTREMELY loyal to me, especially my wife
EXCEPT for my own children!!!!
I think I spoiled them too much
so they became too self centered...

you can see my wife's strong Russian character in this unfinished picture of her
a woman like this would walk barefoot across Russia to be by the side of her man
AND...
she's bisexual and likes younger blond women....
yes!! and the kids are moving out soon!!! yes!!

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 22, 2020, 04:24:38 AM
maybe your ex-wife had a compulsion to cheat, and so no matter what YOU did, she was going to cheat on you or any man for that matter....

I have been lucky
all the Russian women in my life have been EXTREMELY loyal to me, especially my wife
EXCEPT for my own children!!!!
I think I spoiled them too much
so they became too self centered...

you can see my wife's strong Russian character in this unfinished picture of her
a woman like this would walk barefoot across Russia to be by the side of her man
AND...
she's bisexual and likes younger blond women....
yes!! and the kids are moving out soon!!! yes!!

Nice portrait by yourself Krim
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: krimster2 on July 22, 2020, 07:46:41 AM
one year my wife dressed up as Natasha from "The Rocky and BullWinkle Show" for Halloween
she did it perfectly, when she saw a squirrel, she said, "Look I see squirrel, where is Moose" the crowd went crazy
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 22, 2020, 08:20:17 AM
So this case is about a french story, turn subtitles in english it should be ok. This case is typical of how a real black box can work.
 
So the summary is quite simple.
A guy barely needed seven murders endeavors to start to understand that his wife wanting to murder him.
One endeavor came by poisonning him. So when you have a normal life it's not so difficult to figure out where it comes from.
 
So this guy saw nothing coming, her wife being highly manipulative, the boyfriend of her wife see also nothing coming because he had also been manipulated (my husband is a violent man ...).
 
She was also chasing money from the first attempt, 700 grands $, mulitplied by two in case of crash. Guess what he first missed to die with problem of his car. Problem with the brake system and so on....
 
The most incredible moment is when her husband was about to die by an knife murder attempt from a young complice  she broke out in tears with high violence (the black box principle has this function to separate and protect women emotionnaly). After this attempt, she didn't even stop to try to murder him however.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wmZF0iXTrQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wmZF0iXTrQ)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 22, 2020, 08:49:01 AM
How I know about women black box?
 
Simply, I made a search on one long time ago, for four months.
   
All was facilitated as I was living two floors above the woman and had an insider into her family because her daughters liked me very much.
I never did anything bad with what I learnt, nor with her, nor with the children, never gossiped her, never told anyone and kept all informations totally secret for my personal curiosity.
And I repeat it, never used it against anyone. 
This woman was not a murder, not a drug addict nor a pro. But she had secrets in the box. And that was screwing up people around her, informations you couldn't figure out because women are damned good at lying (thank the black box). It's like they all have started the American Film Institut at age of three.
 
So it's not the red pill, the mgtow, or the PUA mouvement that pushed me to dig to know more about women. Simply because at this time I was not even aware that it could exist.   
 
In fact I fall from my tree, and swallow my red pill long time ago, understanding that I had  false, distorted,
beliefs  and understanding of women.
 
I thaught that I had to format the whole hard drive, change all my mental map because  I was chasing the truth.And I didn't want to suffer from an other existantial crisis being older. It had to be wiped ASAP.
 
And then I started to make huge quest to find better answers to how reset the hard drive. Then I found out some guys coming from the seduction community and realized very quickly that they were the guys to go. At least for a part of what I was searching for. 



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 22, 2020, 09:08:16 AM
I shared this existential crisis with a friend of my father. He was young, just a little more aged than me.
 
The almost standard guy, in couple with a son. Not married. Except two things : he had some Asperger syndrom, low level so nothing really to bother and a very high IQ. He is an expert in biology.
   
So this man started to think about every thing I told him, about women black boxes and with his very brilliant memory and very high IQ he started to find out red flags in his couple.
Assembling those red flags he started to gather a whole consistent web of assumptions.
 
Therefore he started to make some theories but needed more evidence to check or uncheck some speculations.
 
THen he started to put a micro in the car of his car's girlfriend. And maybe an other one I don't remember where but probably in the house.
 
He therefore discovered that her girlfriend was manipulating his boy, telling him things that were not true and warned him about his father.
 
It bothers him very highly.
 
He continued his search and realized that at least two men he can trace has gone by her.
She had also a type of mentor, a guy more aged than her.
 
He started to figure out that her life was compartimented in different blocks and he was only one piece of the assembly, his mission was to bring his fatherhood and play his father figure.
 
Things started to go south when he went at her office, broke the door and retrieved all hard drive and usb keys to analyse it.
He was charged for this. But I think that it was nothing serious because he has never been known from the law before.
 
Aware of the danger of her black box being broken she started to freeze him from all friends and from her family, and also did everything she could to avoid him to meet his son. That's a classical feminine tactic.
 
So as you can guess he is not anymore with this woman, and his only priority is to see his son.
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 23, 2020, 06:20:32 AM
 Robert Greene :
 
 I'm an observer. I have that kind of a writer quality -I like to stand back and really dissect and analyze what people are up to. Ever since I was a kid, I never really trusted the appearances that people gave out. They say they're nice, they're good, and you watch what they do and that’s not... there's sort of a disconnect between what they say their intentions are and their behavior. I've always been skeptical of that and looking at people and dissecting and analyzing them. So with all of those things, the history, the reading, the observing, and the experiences, they just kind of all funnel together into a boo
 
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 27, 2020, 07:50:18 AM
Men fear competition all time when it comes about women.
Euhh, not exactly they fear to be confronted to other men when fighting for a woman.
Because they fear that this woman will choose an other man.

You should get acquainted with this idea because all species are competiting, and some typically against some others.

Do You know why FSU women are so vivid, so intense in a way, so presents with men?
Because if, as men you are suffering in the west of the competition,
in the FSU this competition is basically reversing (in average, compared to the western market).
Women in FSU are mostly suffering from the competition.
So when my russian teacher, searching a dad in the dancing arena, tells me "it's like the Olympics every day for a woman here" you can easily figure out what happens to an average lady in Ukraine (average, but not stupid and not uneducated). 
 
So why men are skittish when it's time to approach women.
They fear rejection.
They fear damaging their self esteem.

They adopt a behavior largely supported by their culture and believe that they will be rewarded accordingly.
Honesty, chivalry, be the knight, sacrificing, working hard.

They all wait a crown and many applauds.

And why it shoud go differently ? It's all written in the antic and modern books, movies.
The hero, against the evil is always the winner 99% of time.He got kisses from his wife and all kids are gathering around and many people give him the high fives.
But all those productions are not real, there are just books or movies.
I mean, people are waiting an EMOTIONAL testimony, gratitude, appreciation.

So because you do everything in dating accordingly with your culture, and because your life is straigth you expect an automatic reward and level of attention of this woman you are chasing. Because you stay at work late, because you have repared mum's car, because you propose every day to help you would to hear that you are good man, a worthy man.
So you believe that you desserve love and attention. But just the problem is that there is not yet a real realtionship and those women are not your mum. Your mum you already have one.

Morale, being straight is important in long term relationships but to step in a relationship you should go by the dating stage. And the dating stage has nothing to do with this because :
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 27, 2020, 07:52:46 AM
BECAUSE you as men you focus about ONE relationship and how to capture it. 
And at the same time
BECAUSE women are playing with their pool,
 
For example, call her Helen 
Helen switching Eduard from the second to the first position, because she kicked off her boyfriend two weeks ago. But Eduard is unfortunately off for 3 weeks in vacation,  now and her pussy needs some action by the way the norvegian guy she met at her job should be back for the annual show in the next couple days, she likes him.   
She has also a real problem with flooding and she was good to remember that she still has a phone number of a guy she met at party four months ago.
 He is a plumber and he could maybe fix it, that's will be good because she has no money left this month.
 
She thinks also about Peter, a good bang, but he is very sticky and last time she needed a full month to escape from all his attention, so she is relunctant to call him back.
 
But she has an other good bang but she lost contact with him last two years, a married man, maybe she could send him a SMS "how are you doing".
 
This is the normal life of many women in the world because the sexual market is SO favorable to women. 
 So why many guys are obsessed by ONE woman it's because the opportunity are rare so it fills their head totally.
While during the same time women have generally some others problems, which are to correctly manage the flow.
 
 
You would avoid the dating stage, you would avoid the battle of the species, you would catch this woman and put her in an island 2000 km from the coasts to isolate her. But hey dudes, we live in 2020 now.   
Some have decided to leave the battle, however, red pillers, mgtow... Everybody is free. But that an other type of life not suited for many men. 
 
Believing that women are living the same order of reality that we are used to live with 
.And to believe that women are doing the same things that we do.... or like we do it
That's absolutely not gonna to happen...   
 It's like you would like to put a leopard in the skin of a rabbit ... that's not gonna to work.
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq274g2AmsY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq274g2AmsY)

 
Have you noticed how much guys orbit around beautiful women for weeks, for months, maybe for years?
And now just a question.
What is the maximum time you succeed to keep a woman in your orbit but without being decisive with her?
 
See what I mean?




Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 27, 2020, 08:53:24 AM
I want you to definitively fix this.I really and defintively you to get this s.. out of you. You will make a big step towards more success.
Because your beliefs matters, they limit hapiness. And happiness is managing the  truth.
   
The fact is that women for the same average woman compare to the same average man is getting more contacts, dating, lovers, fuckfriends. 
If you are not convinced set up two profiles on any big dating site with two profiles of average woman and average man with the same bio....And we bet money together, I would love to make tons of money and become rich.
 
So as a result men have two, three, four (more likely), five less options.
In normal  life he just count and wait opportunities to come.


And additionnaly, and that's the beauty of the thing, some men (many maybe ?) would say :You know dude I feel too much uncomfortable to imagine that Sarah could love me (he is just shaking his pole for three months now alone) and she could know that Jane proposed me to have a drink, that SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DISGUUUUUUUUUUSTTTINNNNNGG . I so feel guilty, how I could betray Sarah I so love Sarah, she has everything that I am waiting for. I want to propose her to marry me (Mike only saw her four times, only one time face to face, and don't even have a f...ing idea of how her pussy looks like).   
 
 
And so what?
 
Girls, "oh Mike you are absolutely right, you are a so good boy we love you so much to keep your uniform of beta orbiter so neat, your dick so immaculate for us, All look like a real Walt Disney movie with you (they just forget to tell you that they love it when they were 8 but today it's just creepy). And now Mike is so proud to retain all this splash that he has to change his trouser. 
 
Of course they don't want men to multiply their chances, their orbiters will stay less time and they will have less opportunities themselves.
They would be fucking idiots to say oh Mike you should do what we do for years, sending monthly  SMS for the fifht ranking guy, weekly for the fourth grade guys and  daily if you are on the top three. Recycle men if possible, don't delete the good ones of the phone, wait the last moment before dropping your backups (and this is sometimes why they are so reluctant to enter in relationship and to introduce to her friends, it's because they have to let go the whole pool).  And so on...
 
 
It's important that you have a real clear idea of what's the reality of women today.
If you stick on old fashioned beliefs, you just narrow your chances to meet some good women. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 29, 2020, 02:20:20 PM
NB : advanced level post about seduction
 
Discussion about old game theory vs new ones in an other forum
Is it something new?
Not really IMHO 
The best questions to ask are more :
What to understand about all the corpus given to the public ?How to ponderate the value of each them?How they should interact each other for a maximum efficiency but still individualized?
 
 
Let start from :
 P = Physical ranking
 SO = Total Delivery Seduction Output
 A = Specific attractiveness in individual
 CA = Calibration efficiency
 TR = Transfer rate for the intended delivered seduction
   
 
 DSO = (P + A) * (TR*CA)
 * all variables varying
 
 
We can point out :
Mystery method is more TR oriented
 De Angelo contents is more A oriented
 Relooking is more P oriented
 Field training is more CA/SO oriented, levelling the total output.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on July 29, 2020, 10:04:08 PM
The 'mantra' needs to be questioned

BECAUSE you as men you focus about ONE relationship and how to capture it. 
And at the same time
BECAUSE women are playing with their pool,


Your 'point' only concerns when you first contact her... you'll both be on a dating site or app and open to contact from others

Imagine the scenario:

You click, you remove your profiles, you meet, still click and are most defo in a relationship.


IF one or both of you are still 'playing' then you haven't got a keeper .. move on... 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 30, 2020, 03:54:40 AM
The 'mantra' needs to be questioned


Your 'point' only concerns when you first contact her... you'll both be on a dating site or app and open to contact from others

Imagine the scenario:

You click, you remove your profiles, you meet, still click and are most defo in a relationship.


IF one or both of you are still 'playing' then you haven't got a keeper .. move on...

 
No the point doesn't concern when you first contact her especially.
This is generic in any relationship in the  Western or Eastern European scenes.
But as you bring back this to your only and personal experience lets continue.You click, you remove your profiles.

You click ok 
You remove your profiles (and you have not met her ?????) only low value women would accept such thing because if they have more options they would like to keep them alive.They still didn't meet you and even (in your case, which is quite rare) if you speak russian it is not a proof that you will show, or you are a liar and you are still married, or you drank like a sailor, or she will not like your smell. Nothing of what I wrote is intentend towards you Msb and it's just supposition that a FSU woman can do about a man they don't know, and FSU women are cautious. 
Anyway, lets say that, without even having met her, she agrees to remove her profile (men generally make some pressure on this), and so what ? 
She could have a local boyfriend, a local fuckfriend, and other foreigner boyfriend, still dating some locals and you will never know. 
She can still date some foreigners through other sites or agencies and you will know it only if you make a search. And she can pretend, genuinely, that her old profile has been used on her behalf. And Msb, we both know that it happens quite often in the FSU, so no conclusion could be made.
 
IF one or both of you are still 'playing' then you haven't got a keeperYes you are right if YOU you search a long term relationship, a marriage especially, in a faithful way this woman is not a keeper, da. 
But people, men or women, are not all ready to settle down.
Some people, men or women, want to settle down but they have not the interpretation than you and me have probably in common. They want to settle down but don't consider that it comes with the faithtfullness necessary. Or this notion is quite variable. But they will not tell you.   
I remember a guy 30, someone called him and told him that his wife was about to leave an hotel soon. He decided to go and have a look. Effectively her wife got out with a man and it was not rocket science to figure out that they just had a bang together. He immediately decided to divorce. They had no children and so all was smooth. She repeatdly refused to divorce. He divorced anyway. She wanted to keep the "double life".
 
So what you thing that " you meet, still click and are most defo in a relationship".You have a clear idea about a relationship, you. But women could have also an idea of what is a relationship which is at the end quite different. 
 
You will be surprised if you were asking to many men, many would like to hang a relationship on a woman.
And if you ask to this woman in private she will tell you that there are no relationship, or not the king of relationship that the man is thinking
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on July 30, 2020, 05:15:53 AM
Pat, I am going to post the opening paragraphs to demonstrate to you what is board's aim..

Welcome to Russian Women Discussion!

Russian Women Discussion (RWD) is the premier and most progressive resource for those interested in a romantic relationship with a partner from the Former Soviet Union. At Russian Women Discussion you will uncover the truth through highly relevant and factual discussions about International Relationships and about the risks/rewards which await the intrepid adventurer in his travels to former Iron Curtain countries.

 

Everything you need to know about how to create a successful long-term international relationship is here


Now, I can see from your 'advice' on here that this last paragraph is where we strongly differ.

You seem to object to my countering your personal experiences and my questioning the 'advice' you offer.

All I see is a guy who offers up really terrible theories and proves that it is 'OK' to behave in an 'ungentlemany fashion', because the ladies are 'players', too? .....'Not to be trusted, perhaps?...

If guys listen to your 'advice' they will be treated as badly as they deserve.

The idea to to stand out as different from your 'opposition', being knowledgable about her country, culture and a gent.

'Bad boys' end up single, lonely and wondering where they went wrong.

But they may have many great
 memories to keep them company..



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 31, 2020, 05:10:08 AM
Before any relationship (the starting point of a relationship is universally referenced by sex shared between two people)
 
There is the dating time.
 
Men, at least 50%, and 80% is likely to be the truth, are not confortable with the dating time while women are clearly more comfortable. For example they clearly outperform us when it's time to understand if a man wants them, they generally don't have to do the extra step to approach their prospects. We speak about the FSU and most of the western countries here (because in some the ball has changed of player and some women now have to take some seduction coaching éh éh éh)
 
So look Msb, you wrote :
"All I see is a guy who offers up really terrible theories and proves that it is 'OK' to behave in an 'ungentlemany fashion', because the ladies are 'players', too? .....'Not to be trusted, perhaps?..."
 
I am not offering terrible theories I am just bringing many testimonies and explanations about what is happening in the REALITY. And that's the opposite of a theory. 
   
I am just trying to help men to blow up their inadapted beliefs and behaviors because it terribly hurts their chances to find more women, more quality women, and a woman who suits them better. Additionnaly it could help them to be not fooled, bankrupted, pyschologicaly abused. 
And it's not necessary their personnal responsability, I mean many are blind because they have been raised in a fog where their vision is limited when it comes about dealing with women, the blindness could vary somehow.
 
Msb you wrote :
"All I see is a guy who offers up really terrible theories and proves that it is 'OK' to behave in an 'ungentlemany fashion', because the ladies are 'players', too? .....'Not to be trusted, perhaps?...
If guys listen to your 'advice' they will be treated as badly as they deserve."
 
Are you conscious of the high level of morale  you put in only two sentences?
Morale explains nothing, it only JUDGES someone.
Morale don't help to understand the world.
 
So allow me to rephrase your content with mine to help you, to grasp, if possible, a better understanding of what I am meaning.         
 Being  a gentleman don't necessary come with an automatic respect and gold treatment to women (princess treatment).  During the dating time none should be trusted, except under high scrutiny of their real actions towards you (which is basically the FSU women philosophy, and Krimster got it from the scratch) Respect and engaging your feelings and more (your assets, children, marriage) should come very later when you know her as much as possible. Your heart is your most precious ressource and you should engage it very very carefully.














 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 31, 2020, 08:35:31 AM
Msb you wrote :
"The idea to stand out as different from your 'opposition', being knowledgable about her country, culture and a gent.
'Bad boys' end up single, lonely and wondering where they went wrong."
 
Msb, there a no doubt that you have success, don't get me wrong, due to your russian speaking skill, your knowledge of the culture, due to the fact that you date them as a gent which is absolutely nice in the FSU dating culture.
but in reality what you do is that you skip all the dating time basically and put all the risk on your shoulders with no backup. That's your personal experience. But that's coudln't be a strategy. That's couldn't be a strategy for newbies.
 
Because only very few men and speak russian and know the culture. Additionnaly the girls you are chasing are probably 50 and more and no way that they can play the game in the same proportion than locals hotties in their twenties or thirties. We perfectly know that generally women after 40 have their options more and more limited. My ex MIL is an exemple. 

And here we speak only about FSU.
 
In the western dating scene, the gent and good guy is the one who looks his stick every evening in the bathroom and those guys never did something wrong.Quite the opposite in fact every one, mum, female friends, sisters, beta male orbiters congratulate them to be good boys, to be themselves.
BUT basically they don't get laid.
They look their stick every evening in the bathroom and if they don't agitate it manually they would like to cut it. But that's too much a pain.
 
I have tons of guys like this around me now. They are most of the time alone.
 
Read the posts in this topic about a friend I helped when he met a chick during a party. After I had explained step by step, minute by minute what he had to do he came to the conclusion that he knew absolutely shit about women and perform very badly in this area. And that's his own words.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on July 31, 2020, 10:28:43 AM
Msb wrote : 
If guys listen to your 'advice' they will be treated as badly as they deserve.
 
Are you conscious of the double standard that you are writing here?
 
So when women are playing men and of course they do it,  you treat them like a gent and they desserve the best, and you will be the first to treat them like duchesses? Isn't it?
While the men who will play the same game them women desserve the worst. What is badly? Need to be defined.
 
Oh badly, they will finish alone, they will finish alone, isn't it?
   
But again you are confusing dating and engagement. You believe that dating is engagement?
   
This is something that every man should really understand, dating and engagement are not the same and don't have the same requirements.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Boethius on July 31, 2020, 05:34:35 PM
There is no "one" way to success.  We're all different.  What works for moby doesn't work for Pat, and vice versa.  But the idea that women all think one way is absurd.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on July 31, 2020, 10:00:26 PM
Took a woman to put us 'straight...))
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 04, 2020, 07:21:20 AM
Off course all not people don't think one way.
I have never liked the fact that the world is black or white.
   
But I do believe that a good starting point for most of the men (at least 80%, probably 90%, not considering large part of the hero members who are writing in RWD because those men are very experimented)
 
to 
 
Stop the princess treatment in the western dating scene (It significantly differs in FSU)
Stick to the facts and don't give a sh... on anything a woman can say about women/men relationships (especially in the western dating scene). Look with your eyes and close your ears.
 
Be conscious that a woman's black box could had been opened and there are some dirty secrets to find out.Engage yourself slowly, careful and protect you.
 
In the western world, systematically put out of range your money and assets from a court and from a woman. Are the stakes higher the risks bigger and no rewards to attend. It works most of the time one way, men being the losers. 
 
Breach of trust, robbery and swindling are the most performed offences by women (in my country at least, and it seems to be the case in USA for what I have studied), don't forget it.
And tons of those offences are not reported  because it happens in the intimacy of the family. A good reason to stick on the previous point.




 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on August 04, 2020, 08:43:44 AM
Oh pl-lease...

http://law.jrank.org/pages/1250/Gender-Crime-Differences-between-male-female-offending-patterns.html

''Females have lower arrest rates than males for virtually all crime categories except prostitution. This is true in all countries for which data are available. It is true for all racial and ethnic groups, and for every historical period.

Read more: Gender and Crime - Differences Between Male And Female Offending Patterns - Categories, Women, Crimes, and Males - JRank Articles http://law.jrank.org/pages/1250/Gender-Crime-Differences-between-male-female-offending-patterns.html#ixzz6UAHbaHTx''..

If you base your 'theories' on bollox data..bollox conclusions will surely follow..

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on August 04, 2020, 08:50:10 AM
''Females have lower arrest rates than males for virtually all crime categories except prostitution. This is true in all countries for which data are available. It is true for all racial and ethnic groups, and for every historical period.

True for crimes involving arrest.

However, Patagonie was talking about something different:

"Breach of trust, robbery and swindling are the most performed offences by women (in my country at least, and it seems to be the case in USA for what I have studied), don't forget it.
And tons of those offences are not reported  because it happens in the intimacy of the family. A good reason to stick on the previous point."
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 04, 2020, 08:54:53 AM
Oh pl-lease...

http://law.jrank.org/pages/1250/Gender-Crime-Differences-between-male-female-offending-patterns.html (http://law.jrank.org/pages/1250/Gender-Crime-Differences-between-male-female-offending-patterns.html)

''Females have lower arrest rates than males for virtually all crime categories except prostitution. This is true in all countries for which data are available. It is true for all racial and ethnic groups, and for every historical period.

Read more: Gender and Crime - Differences Between Male And Female Offending Patterns - Categories, Women, Crimes, and Males - JRank Articles http://law.jrank.org/pages/1250/Gender-Crime-Differences-between-male-female-offending-patterns.html#ixzz6UAHbaHTx (http://law.jrank.org/pages/1250/Gender-Crime-Differences-between-male-female-offending-patterns.html#ixzz6UAHbaHTx)''..

If you base your 'theories' on bolloc data...billox conclusions wl surely follow..
   
 
 
Quite often
Rather than rushing to write
You should better read what I am posting,
   
I wrote "Breach of trust, robbery and swindling are the most performed offences by women (in my country at least, and it seems to be the case in USA for what I have studied), don't forget it.   
   
Did I say that women are performing more offences than men? NO

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on August 04, 2020, 09:05:59 AM
Possibly ML is 'guilty' of what you tried to accuse me of.....?

The misogynist in you is strong.

Many of your posts reflect this 'mistrust'...

The theme suggests your dating approach is based on this and possibly revengeful?...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 04, 2020, 09:17:12 AM
True for crimes involving arrest.

However, Patagonie was talking about something different:

"Breach of trust, robbery and swindling are the most performed offences by women (in my country at least, and it seems to be the case in USA for what I have studied), don't forget it.
And tons of those offences are not reported  because it happens in the intimacy of the family. A good reason to stick on the previous point."
 
 
I suppose that the family immunity (french penal code article 311-12)
is also alive in many other western countries. 
   
That means, in practice, in case of a 911 call, the guy who is prevented to approach his house could see most of what he has to be seized, destroyed and sold by his lovely wifey.  8) :P :clapping:   
I think you call it a DVO 
   
But if he was "damaging (or threatening to damage) your property, eg punching holes in the walls or breaking plates" that a reason to call the police as a woman for a DVO  :rolleyes:     

See the double standard here?  :P   
Privilege of the patriarchy. :-\   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on August 04, 2020, 09:23:08 AM

I know a guy who came home from work one day and everything of value in the house was taken by the wife who left him. Years later she asked to come back and he accepted. They filled their home with nice furniture, tvs, electronics and  kitchenware in an attempt to build a life together again. Then one day he came home after work to find an empty house again.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on August 04, 2020, 09:29:39 AM
OK, BillyB...

Are you ( seriously) suggesting ladies would be more prone to do this?

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on August 04, 2020, 09:59:55 AM
OK, BillyB...

Are you ( seriously) suggesting ladies would be more prone to do this?


Based off the stories I've heard, wives do tend to abuse the family funds/credit cards and steal to get what they want more than husbands. Of course I didn't conduct a scientific poll. I know a guy who dated a 911 operator and she said 2/3rds of the time women are at fault in DV calls.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: GQBlues on August 04, 2020, 10:27:16 AM
I suppose that the family immunity (french penal code article 311-12)
is also alive in many other western countries.


Pat-

I agree with your general observation and post. Knowing of course there are exceptions. It's ironic you're on this subject considering the court drama going on between Depp and Heard.

'Abuse' is *usually* a one-gender-sided affair claims. Western societies are more prone to side and believe the women than the other way around except when there's extenuating circumstances. Men are partly, if not largely to blame for this, eventually causing the courts to be much more sympathetic to their (women's) plight.

Women can definitely be much more devious in their dispositions when dealing within their failed relationships (at least from those I've witnessed or known of - I personally hardly ever got in any relationship/s to get to that point. Those that I did have fortunately enough were wonderfully consummated with incredible females. So I'm very lucky in that regard).

Even with some of my female friends. Oh boy! Watch out, man. They can be *evil*, LMAO!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on August 04, 2020, 06:04:00 PM
BillyB,

Guys run up debts gambling or in biz and their wives don't know until the bailiffs come a knocking....

It is RIDICULOUS to approach dating from such a stance of mistrust.

THAT is why I have questioned this aspect of Pat's approach to dating.

It's akin to all FSU W are 'scammers'....because they 'expect' a man to pay on a date...

Pat made a hugely sweeping statement re women and trustworthiness from a criminality aspect ( factual figures) and I clearly pointed out that far less women get busted for the sort of behaviour he suggests we need to be on the look out for...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on August 04, 2020, 06:59:05 PM
Guys run up debts gambling or in biz and their wives don't know until the bailiffs come a knocking....


Some women claim their men are alcoholics and men claim their women drove them to drink. If a guy has a substance abuse or gambling problem, the woman should've never married the guy but if ended up finding substances and gambling more appealing than the wife, maybe the guy has a point about the wife. If I couldn't tolerate my wife anymore, I wouldn't destroy my body or run up debts but that's just me.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on August 04, 2020, 08:17:19 PM
BillyB, you made a statement - seemingly to suggest such behaviour was 'typical' of one sex - as if to 'back up' Pat's reasoning..

The factual stats don't back up his assertion re the US


I'm therefore saying Pat's 'reasoning' is sus' ...

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 05, 2020, 12:46:01 PM
BillyB,

Guys run up debts gambling or in biz and their wives don't know until the bailiffs come a knocking....

It is RIDICULOUS to approach dating from such a stance of mistrust.

THAT is why I have questioned this aspect of Pat's approach to dating.

It's akin to all FSU W are 'scammers'....because they 'expect' a man to pay on a date...

Pat made a hugely sweeping statement re women and trustworthiness from a criminality aspect ( factual figures) and I clearly pointed out that far less women get busted for the sort of behaviour he suggests we need to be on the look out for...
 
Reread what you wrote,     
And what I said, 
see how fast you get away with your own interpretation. I separate western/Fsu scene and dating/marriage time as possible. You mix all together     Stop the princess treatment in the western dating scene (It significantly differs in FSU)
Stick to the facts and don't give a sh... on anything a woman can say about women/men relationships (especially in the western dating scene). Look with your eyes and close your ears.
   
Be conscious that a woman's black box could had been opened and there are some dirty secrets to find out.Engage yourself slowly, careful and protect you.
 
In the western world, systematically put out of range your money and assets from a court and from a woman. Are the stakes higher the risks bigger and no rewards to attend. It works most of the time one way, men being the losers. 
 
Breach of trust, robbery and swindling are the most performed offences by women (in my country at least, and it seems to be the case in USA for what I have studied), don't forget it.
And tons of those offences are not reported  because it happens in the intimacy of the family. A good reason to stick on the previous point.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on August 06, 2020, 02:28:34 AM
Hi Pat,

I am sorry that you persist with your 'reasoning re mistrust.. 

1/ Figures do NOT back up your contention

2/ My experience of FSU W seems to differ from yours re the avarice aspect...

I suggest that this may be a facet of lack of dilligence....

But, until one hits a rocky road...one doesn't really know how folks will react.


Conclusion: you have trust issues and your 'advice' kind..well sucks..on this front (
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 07, 2020, 03:00:25 AM


Pat-

I agree with your general observation and post. Knowing of course there are exceptions. It's ironic you're on this subject considering the court drama going on between Depp and Heard.

'Abuse' is *usually* a one-gender-sided affair claims. Western societies are more prone to side and believe the women than the other way around except when there's extenuating circumstances. Men are partly, if not largely to blame for this, eventually causing the courts to be much more sympathetic to their (women's) plight.

Women can definitely be much more devious in their dispositions when dealing within their failed relationships (at least from those I've witnessed or known of - I personally hardly ever got in any relationship/s to get to that point. Those that I did have fortunately enough were wonderfully consummated with incredible females. So I'm very lucky in that regard).

Even with some of my female friends. Oh boy! Watch out, man. They can be *evil*, LMAO!

+1I share the same opinion.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 07, 2020, 03:06:03 AM
Based off the stories I've heard, wives do tend to abuse the family funds/credit cards and steal to get what they want more than husbands. Of course I didn't conduct a scientific poll. I know a guy who dated a 911 operator and she said 2/3rds of the time women are at fault in DV calls.
 
I also have the testimony of a 911 operator.
The record don't exactly start when the caller thinks it happens.
As a result operators listen the callers while they don't know that 911 is hearing them.Among women, many are threatening the man before making the official acccusation.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 07, 2020, 03:08:09 AM
Hi Pat,

I am sorry that you persist with your 'reasoning re mistrust.. 

1/ Figures do NOT back up your contention

2/ My experience of FSU W seems to differ from yours re the avarice aspect...

I suggest that this may be a facet of lack of dilligence....

But, until one hits a rocky road...one doesn't really know how folks will react.


Conclusion: you have trust issues and your 'advice' kind..well sucks..on this front (
MSB, Which figures confronted to which contention ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 07, 2020, 03:18:09 AM
So I am now stucked with this virus and things are not gonna to be better considering the second wave coming soon and striking hard IMHO end of august when almost all french would have come back from vacations. 
All those people will mix up with their virus got in vacations' places and that's gonna to be a mess.
So for the moment I dunno what to do next.
A travel was considered with Lady of Kiev but aborted.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 07, 2020, 03:24:44 AM
She sent me a signal that she needed some financial help. 
I got it and send her some money so she can move with some friends to have good time.
   
I warned her that will be less money for the two of us. She told me that she will try to bring it back to me later.
We have a daily communication and keep our relationship on the track.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 07, 2020, 03:34:58 AM
I have no real desire to chase women here in France.
I am out of dating sites now including french sites.
Chasing in cafes, night life places is irrealistic because of the virus.
I have a ring of people I know but doing it among them is not a proper strategy. 
   
Mistress try to plan some time with me but I only like to see her maximum 24 hours so vacation with her is not an option, and she is not able to plan anything by the way.
Her life is a package of emptiness and mine is quite busy. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 11, 2020, 02:27:24 PM
So now I try to figure out how to meet lady of Kiev.
So the first idea was to meet abroad due to the consequences of the covid crisis.
   
But you need to combine four parameters :
Lady of Kiev medical test when arriving and when returnning
Syracuse test when arriving, and when returning   
So if you can find a country where you can combine all fourth parameters to none, Noul, biz
I wish you good luck. And if you add flights availability combined with a nice price, so congrats, barely you have found the vaccin for the covid like Poutine.
 
So It's possible that I will fly soon to Ukraine it's worth the risk.
Now if you think strategically I have to move lets say before the 20th august because the second wave of the virus will bite our asses, at least us the frog eaters...Because in september the virous will be largely mixed between all the vacation practitionners of august, and the same people working now but where they usually live now.
 
Therefore I think we will have some regulations in september.
Time to live and enjoy love I think.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on August 14, 2020, 08:42:14 AM

Syracuse test when arriving, and when returning   

Which one of you is intending to apply for admission to Syracuse University ?

http://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/07/how-will-syracuse-university-test-20000-students-for-coronavirus-by-pooling-their-saliva.html
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 19, 2020, 12:01:08 PM
Which one of you is intending to apply for admission to Syracuse University ?

http://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/07/how-will-syracuse-university-test-20000-students-for-coronavirus-by-pooling-their-saliva.html (http://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/07/how-will-syracuse-university-test-20000-students-for-coronavirus-by-pooling-their-saliva.html)

 
Interesting, but I am not gonna to apply for syracuse university lol
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 19, 2020, 12:12:38 PM
So now I have understood that all non official couples and therefore most of tourism is banned from Europe outside his own borders. Basically. 
Few countries, five or six are giving a derogatory authorization to go outside the borders for non official couple. 
 
In fact this process is under embassy control and you need to prove that you are a real couple.
Normally, for France two travels are necessary since october 2019 and and others proofs (bank accounts for example). 
The french governement has decided to give this derogatory authorization since two weeks only otherwise you can skype each other  :rolleyes:
   
But the problem is that embassies, due to the covid, are flooded with a lot of job, and you also need to book some flight tickets. So this last thing is a piece of shit. I suppose that your interest is to aim an official three weeks spots and go for a tinier window, two weeks for example. I dunno if a stop will be allowed later, for example a lot of flights are stopping in Germany. 
 
In theory that's a great new, but in reality, it's gonna to be messy.
In theory I have enough in our plate to get this authorization. But with embassies you never know 100% of success is more about your optimism, not about their decisions.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: GQBlues on August 19, 2020, 01:05:36 PM
Hi Pat-

Apologies for asking the question, but what do you mean by 'derogatory authorization'?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 19, 2020, 02:03:21 PM
Hi Pat-

Apologies for asking the question, but what do you mean by 'derogatory authorization'?
 
You need a special authorization from the embassy. Derogation procedure if you prefer. Hope that helps.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: GQBlues on August 19, 2020, 02:08:53 PM
'Exemption'!

Great, that helped me understand. 'Derogation' is an exemption to a rule of law. Detract or deviate from...

'Derogatory', as best as I know, means 'disparaging', maybe an 'insult', etc...

Thanks!!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 19, 2020, 02:24:24 PM
   So I spent one hour on skype with Lady of Kiev and I really like this woman.
We find enough to laugh together, enough patience to talk with my bad russian (it is improving fortunately).   
   I found her beautiful, and in this department I am quite difficult. But most of the time you will find her beautiful, that's quite difficult for a woman when it's about videos or photos done on spot wherever it is or whenever it is shot.
   
   When she was in France, I organized a party and she got a very high score from the female french friends around me. Especially from the most beautiful french of the party, a solid 8. Not only because she is beautiful, but also because she is comfortable with people, using online translator. They found her easy going and a smiling woman.
I had a lunch recently with some people and the french 8 was there. She spoke about an other FSU woman and set the bar very high about her beauty after the party I organized few months before. 
 
   I appreciate that my female friends take it easy because it doesn't happen always like this. I told you about a business celebration 8 years ago with a bielarussian of 24 and that was very different. 
 
   However when we had a slow dance together with my girlfriend few months ago, nobody dared to dance also. I don't understand why the men I invited didn't do their job and didn't invite a woman. They were too shy. Or we intimated them? That's quite stupid. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 19, 2020, 02:25:39 PM
'Exemption'!

Great, that helped me understand. 'Derogation' is an exemption to a rule of law. Detract or deviate from...

'Derogatory', as best as I know, means 'disparaging', maybe an 'insult', etc...

Thanks!!
Exactly GQ, well said.

 my fault.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 24, 2020, 12:28:07 PM
So now I think that most of the dudes who are trying to date FSU women are barely stopped.
 
I am already preparing 2021.
 
Of course I will do my best to go to Ukraine. I could go 2, maybe 3 weeks before the end of the year, which is not so bad. 
But everything will depend 1/ of the file that I have now to prepare for the embassy and how and when the embassy will answer. 2/ global status of the covid between Ukraine and France
But if the file is accepted by the embassy, in the next months, and if the covid is still very persistent it could give me a huge advantage among all other frenchies. 
During this time I could be among the few french dudes going to Ukraine  :P
 
I have forgotten russian two months being busy but I have just bought some new lessons today and will restart a new course. 
The name of the site is Italki.
For those who don't know.
 
So for me the struggle is still to master cases. It's not yet finished but is should be done I hope at the end of the year. 
   
Perfective and imperfective is more like  :wallbash:
For frenchs progressive tense in english is quite difficult to master but perfective and imperfective in russian  :wallbash: x3
 
Patagonie goes to take some aspirin... now
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 24, 2020, 12:34:41 PM
So newbies,
during this time when the world is collapsing,
Rather start writing to some new unknown remote girls 
 
better to first learn how to read cyrillic alphabet, first and very helpful step
that can help you a lot later. 
   
Learn 100 or 200 words to impress your future lady and have some fun with her.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on August 25, 2020, 12:20:51 AM

So for me the struggle is still to master cases.

I have posted the advice of someone who travels to the FSU more than us ..

FORGET learning cases ( Grammar )  .. learn vocab


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcYCT9wEUuU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcYCT9wEUuU)

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 25, 2020, 02:14:15 AM
Hi Msb,
Nice video, interesting opinion.
Are you mastering cases now, what's your level in russian?
 
I am not a beginner and can have some motion on a daily basis with a woman. But I would like to speak it better. 
Learning vocabulary is a key as he said. You need to know every word to figure out if it's neutral, masculine or feminine, knowing that in each gender there are different endings. That's a first difficulty, just to put it in the plural form. 
 
I spent last month watching twenty hours or russian series to improve my listening skills. 

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on August 26, 2020, 05:05:49 AM
Hi Pat,

I have previously posted this video 2 times this year ;)


My  RU is like my French... Je parles francais comme une vache espagnole, mais  j'essaierai

SC does not correct me and understands my 'off piste' Russian so we may have created a new language ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on August 31, 2020, 01:52:10 PM
I like the humour of this one :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7FmBYKbvOM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7FmBYKbvOM)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 01, 2020, 04:01:17 AM
Woman coach for sugar baby women searching relationship with benefits,
How to maximize your profit.

You don't believe me? That's for real.
Look :
 http://thesugardaddyformula.com/
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: GQBlues on September 01, 2020, 06:19:59 AM
Woman coach for sugar baby women searching relationship with benefits,
How to maximize your profit.

You don't believe me? That's for real.
Look :
 http://thesugardaddyformula.com/

Pat-

It’s great you’re instilling great awareness to men who otherwise would be unaware of many women’s propensity to take advantage of the socially-disadvantaged men.

Newbies should follow your thread religiously.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 01, 2020, 06:59:40 AM
Pat-

It’s great you’re instilling great awareness to men who otherwise would be unaware of many women’s propensity to take advantage of the socially-disadvantaged men.

Newbies should follow your thread religiously.
Thank you GQ.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 01, 2020, 07:01:07 AM
Listen the podcast about this dating coach for sugar baby :
 
I recommand you to listen, the first 8 minutes, to judge by yourself if those women are materialistic or not. Especially the one who became a widow. How she speaks about her husband who died...   
Are those women emphatic about what happened to this husband?
The podcast is in the middle of the page.
 
How Finding Your Sugar Niche Pays Off Meet Julie. The Sugar Daddy Formula (http://thesugardaddyformula.com/finding-your-sugar-niche/)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 01, 2020, 07:32:27 AM
So the constant trait that most women are showing in the western society is an overego. And it's NOT gonna to decrease. 
 
As being sugar baby they believe that they have a lot to offer. It's exactly what's this coach is promoting. Are you kidding me? 
 
If pros are offering a service with known fees here you have to deal with disproportionnated egos, no real fees except if you setup a monthly allowance. 
Money spent is overpriced for the sexual time shared, but you would say as a daddy sugar : I feel like having a relationship with sexual benefit.
IMHO it's just a fluctuation in prostitution.
 
As sugar daddy you would say, but you know it cost me largely more when I divorced (I was 3 M $ funded) so finally it was more transactional than having a sugar baby. 
Yes you make a point here... I can understand your rationnality 
 
But is this normal that wealthy men are so shaved during a divorce? 
Is there any WEIRDO transaction pushed by the civil law here ? While it's about private life between two grown-up people and responsable people? Why the state is involved (except for childs, who needs to be protected by the state).   
 
So we can see that the state forces this transactionnal flow in relationship.
And on an other hand a percentage of women, unknown but at least no marginal, are transactionnal by nature.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 01, 2020, 07:38:22 AM
And on an other hand a percentage of women, unknown but at least no marginal, are transactionnal by nature.
 
Dudes, repeat after me "And on an other hand a percentage of women, unknown but at least not marginal, are transactionnal by nature."  :D   
Some could say that the essence of woman. To be frank it seems to me exaggerated, mysogynist and I will not go this way. 
 
But you have to keep this in mind, and remove the glorious romantical knight you have been raised to be, to detect and kick out the women who are making a living of transactional life and transactional psyché.
Because; if you have not signed to be a sugar daddy, it just means that you are severly manipulated and abused.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 01, 2020, 07:53:21 AM
But fellows there are a lot of time some good things to retrieve from people.
So is what this baby sugar woman coach writing valuable  for men?  (there are also women here, but more men) :
 
And I will, in an other post, discuss about is written here :
 
 
She wrote in her site:
"BUT it all boils down to this…That’s the philosophy behind everything I do.I remember a time when I was FREAKING out about MONEY.We’re talking real freak out… like “how am I going to pay for my phone bill + rent + gas for the car + get food” type freak out.
   
I was feeling desperate and anxious. And as you might guess this was NOT great energy to have when trying to attract someone wealthy.     
     
Prospects can feel it. Even if you are saying “all the right things” they can FEEL your desperation, anxiety any low-level feelings of not being genuine and it is NOT attractive. And there’s the other thing: wanting to set the foundation to the relationship ASAP to get it going. 
             
So what did I do to turn this around even before things started to change? I detached myself from the outcome of what I was hoping get.What can you do, right now to shift from “I HAVE to make this relationship work.” to hearing “YES, you can have whatever you like!” Now here is the HOW…
   
Acknowledge where you really are and commit to making it different vs worrying about what happens if you don’t get the relationship you want. And what things can you do on your own to turn your lifestyle into your reality vs waiting for him to show up. 
   
Reality Check In: This is NOT your only or last chance to attract a wealthy man. In fact, the relationship you desire might not even come from the person you are getting to know, your role is to be in motion so what you desire can come your way. 
     
Stack the relationships in your favor: If you have one man who sent you a message, it can feel like “this one HAS to work” shift out of that energy by sending out initial messages besides window shopping waiting for him to come along so you create more opportunities vs only having that one man who responded to you and it’s been 3 months later.   
                                         
Daily mindset work:  Consistently keeping your mind in check will let you come from a place of high vibration vs desperation. And when you start having a moment where you start thinking, “Can this really work for me?”, “Ahhh nothing is working I need to throw in the towel!”…I need you to know you are not alone. And if you are going at this alone it can feel extremely lonely. Having others around you that are like-minded and “get you (http://thesugardaddyformula.com/sube-society/)” will keep you in balance.And ask yourself this: Am I worthy? Yes. You are. Believe it. 
   
 
Practice Detachment in all parts of your life as well as dating: Detachment doesn’t mean you don’t care… it just means you are not attached to a specific way something has to work out."
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BC on September 01, 2020, 08:49:38 AM

[/b]Dudes, repeat after me "And on an other hand a percentage of women, unknown but at least not marginal, are transactionnal by nature."  :D   

Interesting.  Over the years reading forum posts, I get the impression that many men are transactional.

Quote
"She should be at least an 8 in looks, good teeth, 10 years or more younger, good housekeeper, be frugal and have high earning potential."

Sounds transactional to me...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: GQBlues on September 01, 2020, 02:39:52 PM
And on an other hand a percentage of women, unknown but at least no marginal, are transactionnal by nature.
 
Dudes, repeat after me "And on an other hand a percentage of women, unknown but at least not marginal, are transactionnal by nature."  :D   
Some could say that the essence of woman. To be frank it seems to me exaggerated, mysogynist and I will not go this way. 
 
But you have to keep this in mind, and remove the glorious romantical knight you have been raised to be, to detect and kick out the women who are making a living of transactional life and transactional psyché.
Because; if you have not signed to be a sugar daddy, it just means that you are severly manipulated and abused.

The very vast majority of men trekking to any of the MOB nations unfortunately are of a certain social set. Emphasize on the word 'unfortunately'.

Predictably, these men will undoubtedly be either ignorant of being 'played', or worse, outright volunteer their wallets to cover their insecurity, ineptness or both. It will be hard for me to believe they will be able to turn this 'off' or 'on' like a light switch. But again, hopefully with you around to offer your tips, it may help one, two or even more than this.

Thumbs-up!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on September 03, 2020, 04:12:30 AM
Again, I completely  disagree with the advice Pat believes is helpful to newbies.

Given FSU ladies largely believe the man must be 'strong and provide'....I see very little difference between those seeking green cards and open wallets and almost universal expectation....

If one brings a lass to the 'west she will need your support in the first 2 years, at least.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BC on September 03, 2020, 04:31:58 AM

If one brings a lass to the 'west she will need your support in the first 2 years, at least.

but... but... I wanted one to financially support me!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 04, 2020, 03:40:08 AM
The very vast majority of men trekking to any of the MOB nations unfortunately are of a certain social set. Emphasize on the word 'unfortunately'.

Predictably, these men will undoubtedly be either ignorant of being 'played', or worse, outright volunteer their wallets to cover their insecurity, ineptness or both. It will be hard for me to believe they will be able to turn this 'off' or 'on' like a light switch. But again, hopefully with you around to offer your tips, it may help one, two or even more than this.

Thumbs-up!

You nail here GQ a very interesting topic. 
Are men more prone to spend when they have to compete more for women because the ratio male/female is in their difavour? 
It seems to be yes definitvely accordingly to the study published in the National Center for biotechnology Information in 2011. "The Financial Consequences of Too Many Men: Sex Ratio Effects on Saving, Borrowing, and Spending".
Here it an extract :
 

The ratio of males to females in a population is an important factor in determining behavior in animals. We propose that sex ratio also has pervasive effects in humans, such as by influencing economic decisions. Using both historical data and experiments, we examined how sex ratio influences saving, borrowing, and spending in the United States. Findings show that male-biased sex ratios (an abundance of men) lead men to discount the future and desire immediate rewards. Male-biased sex ratios decreased men’s desire to save for the future and increased their willingness to incur debt for immediate expenditures. Sex ratio appears to influence behavior by increasing the intensity of same-sex competition for mates. Accordingly, a scarcity of women led people to expect men to spend more money during courtship, such as by paying more for engagement rings. These findings demonstrate experimentally that sex ratio influences human decision making in ways consistent with evolutionary biological theory. Implications for sex ratio effects across cultures are discussed.


Macon, Georgia, and Columbus, Georgia, are two cities in the southeastern United States that are less than a hundred miles apart. Both cities share a similar historical heritage and economic climate. Despite these similarities, the residents of each city have drastically different spending habits: The average consumer debt of people living in Columbus is an astounding 2.7 standard deviations higher than that of people living in Macon—a difference of $3,479 per consumer (Experian Information Solutions, 2010 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3302970/#R20)). What might account for this staggering divergence in spending across the two nearby cities?   
 
We suggest that this difference in debt might be linked to an often overlooked difference between the two cities: the ratio of single adult men to women in each area. Whereas in Macon there are only 0.78 single men for every woman, in Columbus there are 1.18 single men for every woman (American Community Survey, 2009 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3302970/#R4)).

 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3302970/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3302970/)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 04, 2020, 03:55:45 AM
The very vast majority of men trekking to any of the MOB nations unfortunately are of a certain social set. Emphasize on the word 'unfortunately'.

Predictably, these men will undoubtedly be either ignorant of being 'played', or worse, outright volunteer their wallets to cover their insecurity, ineptness or both. It will be hard for me to believe they will be able to turn this 'off' or 'on' like a light switch. But again, hopefully with you around to offer your tips, it may help one, two or even more than this.

Thumbs-up!
 
To go further on the basis of the study cited in my previous post, the link gives you full access to this amazing study.
 
"Using a different method to manipulate perceived sex ratio, Study 3 showed a pattern of results highly consistent with the first two studies. When sex ratio is male-biased (a relative abundance of men), men placed more value on securing access to immediate resources. Men desired to both save less and borrow more money, prioritizing the acquisition of immediate gains—and even incurring future debt to do so. Further, sex ratio once again did not influence women’s desire for immediate monetary resources. The sex-specific effects on desires for financial resources are consistent with cross-cultural patterns, which indicate that men tend to compete for and attract mates through displays or offerings that have monetary value more so than do women (Buss, 1989 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3302970/#R9); Griskevicius et al., 2007 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3302970/#R33); Li et al., 2002 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3302970/#R51); Miller, 2009 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3302970/#R55); Sundie et al., 2011 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3302970/#R65)). The findings from Study 3 also lend support to the interpretation that the real-world debt patterns found in Study 1 were driven by male consumers."
 
 
"Study 4 examined whether sex ratio influenced the amount of money people expected men to pay for three common types of mating-related expenditures: a romantic Valentine’s Day gift, an entrée for a dinner date, and an engagement ring. Because women become choosier and men invest more in mating effort under a male-biased sex ratio (Balshine-Earn, 1996 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3302970/#R5); Kvarnemo & Forsgren, 2000 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3302970/#R50)), we predicted that men would be expected to pay more for mating-related expenditures when the sex ratio was male-rather than female-biased. This pattern should characterize both men’s and women’s expectations of male spending. Just as a male-biased ratio should motivate men to exert more mating effort, the same sex ratio should motivate women to increase their thresholds for what they consider acceptable in mates (Ackerman & Kenrick, 2009 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3302970/#R2)). As women become scarce, both sexes should expect men to spend more on mating-related products.
Individually, for the Valentine’s Day gift, participants expected men to spend $6.01 more in the male-biased condition, t(143) = 3.22, p = .002, d = 0.54 (male participants: Mfemale-biased = $46.71, Mmale-biased = $53.46; female participants: Mfemale-biased = $38.33, Mmale-biased = $45.50). For a dinner date, participants expected men to spend $1.51 more on an entrée, t(143) = 1.86, p = .065, d = 0.31 (male participants: Mfemale-biased = $16.19, Mmale-biased = $17.28; female participants: Mfemale-biased = $13.91, Mmale-biased = $16.30). For an engagement ring, participants expected men to spend $368 more, t(143) = 2.58, p = .011, d = 0.43 (male participants: Mfemale-biased = $2,270, Mmale-biased = $2,674; female participants: Mfemale-biased = $2,023, Mmale-biased = $2,348). Thus, both men and women expected men to spend more money on mating-related products when women were scarce."
   
NB : GQ, men who are insecure, ineptness are likely to be the first to compensated it by investing more money on mating. "Alfa" men have no reasons to worry.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BC on September 04, 2020, 04:36:24 AM
Macon, Georgia, and Columbus, Georgia, are two cities in the southeastern United States that are less than a hundred miles apart. Both cities share a similar historical heritage and economic climate. Despite these similarities, the residents of each city have drastically different spending habits: The average consumer debt of people living in Columbus is an astounding 2.7 standard deviations higher than that of people living in Macon—a difference of $3,479 per consumer (Experian Information Solutions, 2010 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3302970/#R20)). What might account for this staggering divergence in spending across the two nearby cities?   
 
We suggest that this difference in debt might be linked to an often overlooked difference between the two cities: the ratio of single adult men to women in each area.

Consumer debt is not really equal to consumer spending.  Might the difference be simply due to cost of living differences?  Folks in Macon seem to enjoy higher disposable income which would not necessarily require debt.

I'm not saying the hypothesis is flawed, just that there are factors that may not be figured in.  There is not much difference in the 'astounding difference' noted in your link with the greater disposable income in Macon, GA.

(http://i.postimg.cc/FRdNpWv4/Screen-Shot-2020-09-04-at-13-26-36.png)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 04, 2020, 04:59:15 AM
Consumer debt is not really equal to consumer spending.  Might the difference be simply due to cost of living differences?  Folks in Macon seem to enjoy higher disposable income which would not necessarily require debt.

I'm not saying the hypothesis is flawed, just that there are factors that may not be figured in.  There is not much difference in the 'astounding difference' noted in your link with the greater disposable income in Macon, GA.

(http://i.postimg.cc/FRdNpWv4/Screen-Shot-2020-09-04-at-13-26-36.png)

Correct : 
they wrote in the study 1 :
 " For instance, sex-specific data are not available for these kinds of aggregate measures, making it impossible to determine whether the relationship between sex ratio and desire for immediate access to rewards is driven by men, women, or perhaps both genders. Furthermore, it is not possible to ascertain whether sex ratio has a causal effect with a correlational design."
 
So they made others studies to have cross results with others factors. 
Study 2: Manipulated Sex Ratio and Temporal Discounting  Study 3: Sex Ratio, Saving, and Borrowing
Study 4: Sex Ratio and Expected Spending
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 04, 2020, 05:17:45 AM
Interesting.  Over the years reading forum posts, I get the impression that many men are transactional.

Sounds transactional to me...
 
An expectation doesn't necessary translates as a transaction.   
And sometimes a transaction is not an initial expectation...
 
And the expectations of the transactional people are not necessary to be said from the beginning of the interaction....
 :P
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BC on September 04, 2020, 06:37:43 AM
Studies 3 and 4 are interesting that even a perceived male bias would result in greater spending.

How would you apply that to those seeking wives 'elsewhere' with a perceived female bias such as is often advertised at FSUW dating agencies?

That their customers expect to 'invest' less in their search for a mate vs 'perceived' difficulties finding one at home? ;)   They certainly don't mention demographics are biased towards older women in many of these countries.

Isn't that the 'bait and switch' or more politely 'lure' that men seeking a FSUW get caught up in whether they be α, β, or Ω?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: GQBlues on September 04, 2020, 09:26:10 AM
You nail here GQ a very interesting topic. Are men more prone to spend when they have to compete more for women because the ratio male/female is in their difavour?
 
It seems to be yes definitvely accordingly to the study published in the National Center for biotechnology Information in 2011. "The Financial Consequences of Too Many Men: Sex Ratio Effects on Saving, Borrowing, and Spending".....

Kudos Pat!

While I relate and generally agree with many/most of the points you laid out, tbh, it's too structured for me. Ugly and hideous as I am, I have never spent and wasted a second or two to act in all my social encounter to close a deal. It's always been two words approach: NO FEAR Been the best method for me.

While the rest of the BOYZ in the room are too busy calculating their strategic moves, honing their planned approach, etc...I already have the intended captive attention in my universe wrapped up.

Anyway, I sent you a PM, which I will do now for the most part. You're doing a good job advancing a method that would most certainly yield far better results than any other!

Keep the good word flowing, bruddah!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 05, 2020, 07:25:20 PM
But fellows there are a lot of time some good things to retrieve from people.
So is what this baby sugar woman coach writing valuable  for men?  (there are also women here, but more men) :
 
And I will, in an other post, discuss about is written here :
 
 
She wrote in her site:
"BUT it all boils down to this…
  • Do you understand what makes Sugar Daddy’s want to provide you with what you want?
  • Do you know how to get inside their heads?
  • Do you know how to invoke emotions in them? And using that knowledge to persuade, influence and GET WHAT YOU WANT!
That’s the philosophy behind everything I do.I remember a time when I was FREAKING out about MONEY.We’re talking real freak out… like “how am I going to pay for my phone bill + rent + gas for the car + get food” type freak out.
   
I was feeling desperate and anxious. And as you might guess this was NOT great energy to have when trying to attract someone wealthy.     
     
Prospects can feel it. Even if you are saying “all the right things” they can FEEL your desperation, anxiety any low-level feelings of not being genuine and it is NOT attractive. And there’s the other thing: wanting to set the foundation to the relationship ASAP to get it going. 
             
So what did I do to turn this around even before things started to change? I detached myself from the outcome of what I was hoping get.What can you do, right now to shift from “I HAVE to make this relationship work.” to hearing “YES, you can have whatever you like!” Now here is the HOW…
   
Acknowledge where you really are and commit to making it different vs worrying about what happens if you don’t get the relationship you want. And what things can you do on your own to turn your lifestyle into your reality vs waiting for him to show up. 
   
Reality Check In: This is NOT your only or last chance to attract a wealthy man. In fact, the relationship you desire might not even come from the person you are getting to know, your role is to be in motion so what you desire can come your way. 
     
Stack the relationships in your favor: If you have one man who sent you a message, it can feel like “this one HAS to work” shift out of that energy by sending out initial messages besides window shopping waiting for him to come along so you create more opportunities vs only having that one man who responded to you and it’s been 3 months later.   
                                         
Daily mindset work:  Consistently keeping your mind in check will let you come from a place of high vibration vs desperation. And when you start having a moment where you start thinking, “Can this really work for me?”, “Ahhh nothing is working I need to throw in the towel!”…I need you to know you are not alone. And if you are going at this alone it can feel extremely lonely. Having others around you that are like-minded and “get you (http://thesugardaddyformula.com/sube-society/)” will keep you in balance.And ask yourself this: Am I worthy? Yes. You are. Believe it. 
   
 
Practice Detachment in all parts of your life as well as dating: Detachment doesn’t mean you don’t care… it just means you are not attached to a specific way something has to work out."
What a woman coach for honey baby could had been writing could be tranposed to you men :
Patagonie transposing :
 
"BUT it all boils down to this…
That’s the philosophy behind everything that you shoud help. I do. I remember, as a man, how I was fearing about women, talking to her, asking her the time, or just a direction. i WAS even fearing about meeting love   
I was feeling desperate and anxious. And as you might guess this was NOT great energy to have when trying to attract a nearby woman     
Prospects can feel it. Even if you are saying “all the right things” they can FEEL your desperation, anxiety any low-level feelings of not being genuine and it is NOT attractive. And there’s the other thing: wanting to set the foundation to the relationship ASAP to get it going. 
             
So what did I do to turn this around even before things started to change? I detached myself from the outcome of what I was hoping get.What can you do, right now to shift from “I HAVE to make this relationship work.” to hearing “YES, you can have whatever you like!” Now here is the HOW…
   
Acknowledge where you really are and commit to making it different vs worrying about what happens and how you will get judged if you don’t get the relationship you want. And what things can you do on your own to turn your lifestyle into your reality vs waiting for him to show up. 
   
Reality Check In: This is NOT your only or last chance to attract a good women.. In fact, the relationship you desire might not even come from the person you are getting to know, your role is to be in motion so what you desire can come your way. 
     
Stack the relationships in your favor: If you have one woman who sent you a message, it can feel like “this one HAS to work” shift out of that energy by sending out initial messages besides window shopping waiting for hem to come along so you create more opportunities vs only having that one woman who responded to you and it’s been 3 months later.   
                                         
Daily mindset work:  Consistently keeping your mind in check will let you come from a place of high vibration vs desperation. And when you start having a moment where you start thinking, “Can this really work for me?”, “Ahhh nothing is working I need to throw in the towel!”…I need you to know you are not alone. And if you are going at this alone it can feel extremely lonely. Having others around you that are like-minded and “get you (http://thesugardaddyformula.com/sube-society/)” will keep you in balance.And ask yourself this: Am I worthy? Yes. You are. Believe it. 
   
 
Practice Detachment in all parts of your life as well as dating: Detachment doesn’t mean you don’t care… it just means you are not attached to a specific way something has to work out."
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 06, 2020, 09:39:18 AM
Kudos Pat!

While I relate and generally agree with many/most of the points you laid out, tbh, it's too structured for me. Ugly and hideous as I am, I have never spent and wasted a second or two to act in all my social encounter to close a deal. It's always been two words approach: NO FEAR Been the best method for me.

While the rest of the BOYZ in the room are too busy calculating their strategic moves, honing their planned approach, etc...I already have the intended captive attention in my universe wrapped up.

Anyway, I sent you a PM, which I will do now for the most part. You're doing a good job advancing a method that would most certainly yield far better results than any other!

Keep the good word flowing, bruddah!

Thank you bro
I have met few ... "Naturals"
But the fact is that around me I met one recently and watched him interracting with people and especially with women. 
GQ told you all : no fear. 
Naturals do all naturally, with no fear. 
While 99% of men, and more men tomorrow will be terrassed by the fear oppression due to the lastest moves of this western society, are fearing about what buddies will think if he dares to talk to the girls behind when at the bar, what those girls could answer, or not answer ....During this time the natural is already seated with the girls have a good talk and some fun (and so do the girls).   
So GQ you cannot know what it costs to almost of the men to get out of this social fearing, so deep rooted that it's a violence against ourself to cross the line.
This one of the thing that the trainees in the game have to play on the field : crossing the line and tame this internal censorphip that paralyzes all your social dynamics, and this border is damned powerful, you cannot imagine.
And to tell you the truth I am still under control of this tyranny even if I have worked on it, but it's so deeply ingrained....   
So the difference between the ones who know the game from a theory perspective are just having limited dimension of a theorical knowledge and that as nothing to do with a human multidimension dynamic when you have gone through all the complex pyramid that I have codified as the seven floors. 
That's why every people who just read few sites or books about the game are out of understanding the real dynamics, and this is also why now a lot of people facing the changes of the society are interested to dig in it.
     
So differently than you many of us have (I did and gave for years a constant effort and a very consuming time including tons of trials and errors) to RELEARN 
RELEARN 
   
This is the main advantage we have when facing young chaps : we have ... some experience, this is why life is so passionating, you never stop to learn.   
   
As I usually say, in classical psychology, if you would like her to help you,
you would  try from your young adult age to keep the good an kick the bad from your family inheritage.
But quite difficult to understand what's good and bad .... éh éh éh...
   
I want to tell every man here that self development is not girly, this not to be selfish, This is not a waste of time.
It's only to be responsable to achieve some wisdom and achieve, as possible, a state of consciousness, that rather than let you apart from the world, is, on the contrary, immersing you more in it.
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 08, 2020, 01:04:49 PM
Studies 3 and 4 are interesting that even a perceived male bias would result in greater spending.

How would you apply that to those seeking wives 'elsewhere' with a perceived female bias such as is often advertised at FSUW dating agencies?

That their customers expect to 'invest' less in their search for a mate vs 'perceived' difficulties finding one at home? ;)   They certainly don't mention demographics are biased towards older women in many of these countries.

Isn't that the 'bait and switch' or more politely 'lure' that men seeking a FSUW get caught up in whether they be α, β, or Ω?

 
Those studies are correlated to some others I already read. 
Example
A panel of 10 people is looking a photo of a woman that pops up to the screen, everybody write how high he is scoring this woman in beauty (just an example).
So the guy A says 8 on 10, the guy B says 9 on 10, the C guy says 8, the D guy says now 9 and now the guy D who has written on his paper 6 will lie to say 8, because he is pushed by the crowd.
 
Now the men who are coming to the FSU, from a male biased perspective, are not developping a female biased attitude because changes in behavior are not gonna to happen in few months and especially after few dates (when a guy got few dates with few women he is already an ace in the usual international dating landscape  :P ) 
 So they will maintain the same standard treatment, just enjoying the more favorable SMV (sexual market value), which is already a trade off, but a positive trade off for those men. So why they should lower their ratio?
 
Considering all the money they spent in the FSU dating industry, online communication (mainly scams), travelling, gifts (including gold diggers) and what they are ready to pay in or for the relationships, I have no signs to be known that the mainstream of men in internationnaly dating is giving less money. 
   
Unfortunately because "money buying love" has poor effects at the end. To which extend would you some dudes ask. A better question is "what's reasonnable to include in this extend".


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on September 09, 2020, 12:26:09 AM
Pat

1/ when I was looking for a partner, I did not rely on the opinion of others as to who I should visit ..'Peer pressure' is not relevant

2/ IF one is using a non pay per chat medium I fail to see what is 'costly' about enrolling in a dating site / app?

3/ 'Scams' ? I've never been scammed ... that's part of the due diligence process



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 09, 2020, 05:26:21 AM
Pat

1/ when I was looking for a partner, I did not rely on the opinion of others as to who I should visit ..'Peer pressure' is not relevant

2/ IF one is using a non pay per chat medium I fail to see what is 'costly' about enrolling in a dating site / app?

3/ 'Scams' ? I've never been scammed ... that's part of the due diligence process


1/ Good  :applaud: I do agree.
Some guys are having some problems due to their family or some friends saying "slavic girls are all scammers" and so on.
   
2/ Previous posts were related to this study in USA comparing scarsity in women depending of the states and trying to prove that men were more prone to spend more depending on the male or female biased market.
So you have to put what you say back in the global dating market, either the western or the eastern one, paying a site is peanut in the process except if you are scammed for a ton of money.
 
3/ Being scammed or not scammed is part of the process. Yep.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 14, 2020, 01:22:12 AM
Now the borders are closed with Ukraine from the 28th august to the 28 th september. 
 
A friend of mine has gone in august. She owns a french and an ukrainian passport.   
She used her french one and did a PCR test the day before the flight. 
They just bothered her asking her to show a proof that she detained an insurance. 
She showed her french health card and was ready to go. 
 
It proves that they didn't perform a good job because, for what I read, you need to have a special ukrainian insurance validated by the ukrainian state.   
 
Anyway she has gone back and forth without any problem.
 
This link will help to understand, France is in the red zone.
http://visitukraine.today/ (http://visitukraine.today/)
It is written :
. Also, a person can be free from self-isolation in Ukraine in case he/she has a negative test result for Covid-19 by PCR, which was passed no later than 48 hours before crossing the Ukrainian border. In this case installing the app “Dii Vdoma” is not required.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 14, 2020, 01:27:35 AM
But on an other hand the french govnerment was few weeks ago ready  to let a special procedure to begin, regulated by embassies to allow citizens to meet their beloved abroad, like few others european countries aldready did. 
 :wallbash:
It's about couples that were dating previously before, but not married or not engaged in a UCIS process. 
 
I don't see any reason to do such process myself if I can go from a red zone with a 24hours prior PCR test to Ukraine.
 
However, a FSU woman cannot actually travel in the UE. So this procedure could unblock the situation. I should work on it a little....  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on September 14, 2020, 08:07:51 AM

A friend of mine has gone in august. She owns a french and an ukrainian passport.   


Pat, good work with your English progression.
But here is one of those tricky exceptions.

Use A if the first letter of the next word is vowel but the first sound is a consonant.
when "o" makes the same sound as w in won
when "e" makes the same sound as the y in you
when "eu" makes the same sound as the y in you
when "u" makes the same sound as the y in you
examples:  a united, a European, & a one

So we must say:  A Ukrainian passport.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on September 14, 2020, 08:45:53 PM
But on an other hand the french govnerment was few weeks ago ready  to let a special procedure to begin, regulated by embassies to allow citizens to meet their beloved abroad, like few others european countries aldready did. 
 :wallbash:
It's about couples that were dating previously before, but not married or not engaged in a UCIS process. 
 
I don't see any reason to do such process myself if I can go from a red zone with a 24hours prior PCR test to Ukraine.
 
However, a FSU woman cannot actually travel in the UE. So this procedure could unblock the situation. I should work on it a little....  :popcorn:

Pat,

We ( SC and I ) applied for a Schengen, for her, to meet in FR in late June... it s now mid September

First, we needed to get her a new passport, as the first one expired in Nov'20  and the Schengen validity would only be for a few weeks.

Since then, the FR Visa website, will NOT allow an application from a family member of an EU citizen .. it defaults back to a normal application, which then insists in asking questions about monetary situations, guarantors, etc. Despite the - eventual - intervention note to the Visa agents in Russia by the FR consulate, the IDIOTS insisted the SC had no application and made her do one, which could STILL not be correctly applied for as the wife of an EU citizen and the Consulate said, "Don't worry, we will not use that application"

Such applications MUST be treated as priority

We have a official complaint in with the FR govt Ombudsman and the French have had SC's passport  for over three weeks and last week asked to see details of our home(s) which we sent, but they have NO right to ask for...

In the time of COVID, meeting a loved one or even one's wife, is fraught with hurdles .. :deadhorse:



Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 16, 2020, 06:12:02 AM
Dealing with embassies is a PIA each time, maybe some embassies are better than others
 
Has your marriage been translated in the UK law or not ? 
I suppose you married first in Russia or at least outside the EU. Correct?
 
I can understand how you are upset if they keep SC's passport for so long.
You know sometimes the administrative rules can change depending of how people in charge interpret it. 
Just an example, you have to give let say some documents about where you live. They expect you to show X Y and Z documents, you give X Y and W documents.
W is proving exactly the same thing and has the same force in the law. BUT it's not named Y on the document.
And now you are screwed up. Refusal, take an appointment again ...  :cluebat:

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on September 16, 2020, 10:37:13 AM
Dealing with embassies is a PIA each time, maybe some embassies are better than others
 
Has your marriage been translated in the UK law or not ? 

It was in the Rep. of Georgia and it is Apostilled into EN... SC already had a Schengen Visa as my non EU spouse
 

 
I can understand how you are upset if they keep SC's passport for so long.

Very simple.. ALL they need is her passport, and ou marriage docs, plus a copy of my EU passport ... NO questions, re support etc permitted or necessary ... As she's had a Schengen on the same circumstances a 'refusal' can only be on the grounds of her being a 'risk to national security or ....

Public Health'.....





Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 16, 2020, 11:28:35 AM
It was in the Rep. of Georgia and it is Apostilled into EN... SC already had a Schengen Visa as my non EU spouse
 

Very simple.. ALL they need is her passport, and ou marriage docs, plus a copy of my EU passport ... NO questions, re support etc permitted or necessary ... As she's had a Schengen on the same circumstances a 'refusal' can only be on the grounds of her being a 'risk to national security or ....

Public Health'.....

Yeah that looks weird. Don't understand why they piss you off.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on September 16, 2020, 12:01:57 PM
Hi Pat,

It now seems the worse combination of bureaucracy in a crisis ... Russians working for the French ? ;)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 18, 2020, 02:46:24 AM
Hi Pat,

It now seems the worse combination of bureaucracy in a crisis ... Russians working for the French ? ;)

Yes, a type of.
We are famous for our bureaucracy.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 18, 2020, 03:05:43 AM
So I have succeed to keep my 3 girls alive and one is clearly ranking number one.
 
I have also send a message to a mistress I met in Ukraine 2 years ago.
She explained me that the virus is not too bad in her city.
 
 Lets  me explain the date.   
We met through Badoo and had an appointment near a big mall. 
We ended in the bowling that unfortunately has closed last summer.
While we were playing she started to bump into me and giving me big smiles. 
I start to make it out and we kiss.
The second meeting was the last because I had to wake up very early in the morning so we met late in the evening. 
I just remember that we landed in my flat that was not too far from the city center. This flat was not luxuary, however he was well located and close to a famous georgian restaurant. Nearby I found also a shop to change my phone battery, largely cheaper than in Europe.
I also know a center that repare many things. So i drop my watches, my shoes, my throusers and they repare all for almost nothing, and the work is nicely done. 
 
Anyway she was in the flat, seated in the couch and I was working on the computer because I had to register before the boarding and book my seats and it took me some time.
I stood up and came to her.
She also stood and we start to kiss. Not for so long my fingers got through her clothes reaching her breasts. SHe started to moan while I was exploring more.
I decide to push the exploration under her belly and she was already ... ready.
I pushed her into the bedroom and we started to ruin the bed... The night was very short especially considering that an other service was delivered few hours later.
She didn't complain while being gently assaulted and was quite participative... showing her permanent interest formore night experience.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 18, 2020, 11:41:26 AM
I hate the pinky world
 
I hate double standards
 
I hate commercial lies
 
Find a worl that fits you.
 
Don't let others impress you 
 
A woman passes by, let you fly but no promises, and so no tears...
 
Tomorrow you will see and open your eyes and what she had done the day before, and if that was for real, so you can have some hope.
 
Hope shouldn't exceed the little things she has done for you.
 
Bring emotions into you and live with your own kaleidoscope, the one first you have to explore.
If you don't know yourself how people could have some confidence in who you are?
 
Don't give all your attention to a woman that you just know, your friends desserve better, they are linked with the bumps and the joys of your long life
 
Every experience has a purpose : to grow you better even if you don't know when you will be better, that's the surprise of life
 
When you dare to make a move towards a woman and you know that you absolutely shouldn't do it: repeat without pausing "the most urgent is to do nothing", and do it. Do nothing. Repeat after me....

The intensity or you life is first the intensity of what happens in your head, first what happens in your heart.
 
Minimize the judgment you can have on other people your life will enlarge.
 
Respect people who believes but don't let them making pressure on you because you don't believe.   
To feel trapped is, most of the time, because your brains haven't yet discover that they still have enough to escape.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 18, 2020, 12:33:19 PM
Bad news for the guys who go to the big clubs in the US and throw away a lot of money away (the same in many clubs all over the world I think).
   
And this is confirmed by an insider that is acquainted to a friend of mine and who have worked a semi pro in those clubs in the US. Most of the pretty girls you see have a financial interest.
That's a capitalist scam. 
 
 
So again and again two types of men, and the ones who hit are not the ones you believe.Welcome in the reality.   
Maybe time to leave the simp attitude? No?
 
Enjoy :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwYRuvHwRUI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwYRuvHwRUI)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on September 18, 2020, 02:02:43 PM
. . . showing her permanent interest for more night experience.

So will you need a pair of night vision goggles for this to continue ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 19, 2020, 01:37:11 PM
So will you need a pair of night vision goggles for this to continue ?

I generally draw some fluorescent marks on the woman to manoeuvre in the dark, it helps...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 04, 2020, 11:20:59 AM
Pat, good work with your English progression.
But here is one of those tricky exceptions.

Use A if the first letter of the next word is vowel but the first sound is a consonant.
when "o" makes the same sound as w in won
when "e" makes the same sound as the y in you
when "eu" makes the same sound as the y in you
when "u" makes the same sound as the y in you
examples:  a united, a European, & a one

So we must say:  A Ukrainian passport.
Thank you for the lesson, I still have a lot to do...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 04, 2020, 11:46:32 AM
What's funny is that I have more and more people asking me my opinion from my dating experience.
Last 24 hours three people.
   
And some girls come around me to ask my opinion.
I have always highly value informations coming from women even if the quality of the report depends a lot of the woman's personality. Some are sugar coating the content while some other stay more honest, more factual.
 
So you need to stay cautious.
However when you know those women for a while, the one who asked me yesterday I know her for almost two decaders, you can rely on what they say at 95%. And also this one is more about facts than a kind of romance.
 
So sometimes I blame the woman, generally the ones who are making a romance, in the inscouscious purpose to drop some smoke about what they really did. LOLBut also, many times, men are to be blamed.
 
So when a woman comes to Tinder and wrote that she is searching a serious relationship,Even it's Tinder,I would recommend to men to not try to kiss and close her physically every two minutes. Especially if you have asked to meet her at her home for the first appointment.
We know that some rendez-vous start in a private place, and sex follows in the next minutes.
 
But when a woman have stated something serious in her ad and meet you in a public space, it means that she needs a more traditional meeting.
 
Which translates in few hours before being comfortable. So by invading her personal space (less than 2 feets) repeatdly and pushing her, even asking kissing, you make all weird and her discomfort is only raising minute after minute.
This is not to be a gentleman first, but morever you show very low social skills, especially if you are in your late fourties. It's more related to kid, aged of 16 or 17. 
As a result, pushing her again to meet again at her home for the second meeting and insulting her while she refused is not the best thing a man can do.
 
So you of course the end of the story, no story at all and a woman quite in shock about the ending.
 
Calibrating, be patient, respect time needed to built comfort, knowing the basics about non verbal language and the guy would have closed the deal, because he got her first attention.
And the fact that she still keep up with him after the first meeting proves my point.
 
So for those who have mismatches with women, it's time to tune the balance, the volume, and adjust filters accordingly.


 
 

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on October 04, 2020, 11:03:03 PM
What's funny is that I have more and more people asking me my opinion from my dating experience.



I agree, Pat ;)

Dating is the EASY part .. finding out of you're compatible for an LTR takes longer 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 05, 2020, 02:15:51 PM
Yep, if you are selective it takes time.
From the very very beginning and the moment we were engaged with ex wifey, more than two years and half. 
ANd you Msb?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on October 06, 2020, 01:32:19 AM
Yep, if you are selective it takes time.
From the very very beginning and the moment we were engaged with ex wifey, more than two years and half. 
ANd you Msb?

I lived with my first wife 7 months before we got married

Second: we lived 3 months together over a six month period

third: over five years

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 07, 2020, 04:12:08 PM
I lived with my first wife 7 months before we got married

Second: we lived 3 months together over a six month period

third: over five years
 
That was solid, MSB, many westerners don't have such a chance.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 09, 2020, 06:26:13 AM
So, with the last informations I got from ukrainians sources I have decided to go to Ukraine for few days. 
As we had already one miss with lady of Kiev because I was planning a travel that had never happened, I decided to do it the slavic way, I bought the ticket and sent to her.
 
Action rather than words' masturbation  :popcorn:   
And couldn't be more pleased by how she reacted and expressed her surprise.
This is where you see how people are sincere and like you.
Cannot complain.
 
And additionnaly she is incredibly beautiful, don't know how she performs such mystery, shooting simply with her phone in adverse conditions.  :P 
We also have a lot of fun with a  messages, but not gonna to detail the content  8)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 10, 2020, 04:33:49 AM
The madness continues. 
 
I move to Ukraine meeting lady 1
Lady 2 is in Ukraine but wants me to move in Spain meanwhile
Lady 3 wants to move in the city where I will meet lady 1 
But I never said anything about me to be there.       
 
The final bouquet would be : my ex-wife moving to Ukraine like last time during the same trip  :wallbash: 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on October 10, 2020, 08:35:52 AM
Can Ukrainians arrive in Schenghen nations without residency under COVID-19?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 10, 2020, 09:49:21 AM
The answer is a clear NO. 
 
Except :
"Ukraine does not meet the criteria defined by the EU for the state to be included in the list of epidemiologically safe countries (green list) the citizens of which can cross the border. But there are eight categories of citizens who are allowed to enter the territory of the European Union despite the ban," Kuleba said during an online briefing on July 7, according to an Ukrinform correspondent.

In particular, these categories include healthcare workers, medical researchers; people who care for the elderly and those who require urgent medical care; border guards; carriers of goods and other representatives of transport services, taking into account the need; diplomats, police officers on duty, civil defense services and teams, representatives of international organizations and international military contingents; persons in transit; persons traveling for non-tourist purposes or other business matters or who have another economic interest; persons traveling for study or other urgent personal reasons.

 

Source http://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/3058399-eight-categories-of-ukrainian-citizens-allowed-to-enter-eu-kuleba.html (http://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/3058399-eight-categories-of-ukrainian-citizens-allowed-to-enter-eu-kuleba.html)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 10, 2020, 01:56:26 PM
DDudes,

Have fun,
Enjoy.
you have only ONE life.
And unfortunately you never know how much credits have been given to you. Only God knows it. 
 :flowers:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on October 10, 2020, 10:41:22 PM
The answer is a clear NO. 
 


Thanks for explaining the lengthy criteria:)

I think the article must surely have missed if you are resident with a EU citizen ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 11, 2020, 12:18:31 PM
Thanks for explaining the lengthy criteria:)
 
I think the article must surely have missed if you are resident with a EU citizen ?

If you are a spouse or if you are in a fiancee visa you can enter in Schengen Space. 
Also if you have a   1 year visa or long term visa (10 years if I don't make a mistake). 
 
For the coronavirus you must check every 3 days in average. I think each country update every week basically and all change depending other countries. 
So that quite a mess. 
 
Not speaking about a possible quarantine that can happen anytime, depending of each country.  :rolleyes: So stay tuned and if a country where you are is about to self isolated my advice is to rush to buy a ticket in the minute and leave asap. 
 
Don't wait the day before the border closes.
You damned don't know what could happen.



Title: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 13, 2020, 02:10:27 PM
So some news about Ukraine :
Red zone : PCR test and insurance
Green zone : insurance
 
If you come FROM such zone. 
Coming from a red zone :
Nothing had been asked to me,
BUT when I asked to the customs what to do for the return they told me to do a test.
And I am also normally under the quarantine except if I do a test.
So go for the test.
 
The test in Boryspol :
I decided to close the deal by making a test, just before you retrieve your luggage. So nothing to worry when I will be back in one week.
They send you the answer by email in FEW hours (my gush, it needs at least 24 hours, sometimes more in my country)
THe cost 2000 grv, barely 55 bucks, quite a lot  but prices in the city comes 40 bucks to 75 bucksSo not so expansive in the airport.




Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 13, 2020, 02:11:48 PM
The weather is warm, this what I call the indian summer. 
But after the 10th november expect to wear warm clothes.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on October 13, 2020, 02:25:40 PM

If you are a spouse or if you are in a fiancee visa you can enter in Schengen Space. 
Also if you have a   1 year visa or long term visa (10 years if I don't make a mistake). 

You 'do' ! ;)

SC is most defo my spouse and the French are NOT issuing Schengens of greater than 3 months to Russians ( other than Student Visas)   SC's most clearly says family member of EU ( 'UE'!) citizen.

At any other time she would be entitled to at least a year and possibly longer ..

Unless a Russian can prove that family member is working / resident in FR - which I will be .. no way will they even get a visa and if they HAVE one, already  ..wouldn't be allowed to fly / board the plane  TO FR ... unless they can prove same ((

We are waiting for your President to announce what his plans are ( Wednesday evening 13th Oct)  for high risk areas such as Paris and the region I am working in ( red zones ) to see if it is even work her and I going to FR, at all ((


Thanks for the tip
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 15, 2020, 02:13:17 PM
You 'do' ! ;)

SC is most defo my spouse and the French are NOT issuing Schengens of greater than 3 months to Russians ( other than Student Visas)   SC's most clearly says family member of EU ( 'UE'!) citizen.

At any other time she would be entitled to at least a year and possibly longer ..

Unless a Russian can prove that family member is working / resident in FR - which I will be .. no way will they even get a visa and if they HAVE one, already  ..wouldn't be allowed to fly / board the plane  TO FR ... unless they can prove same ((

We are waiting for your President to announce what his plans are ( Wednesday evening 13th Oct)  for high risk areas such as Paris and the region I am working in ( red zones ) to see if it is even work her and I going to FR, at all ((


Thanks for the tip
It  should be not so bad for you it's only a curfew. Between 21H00 and 6H00.
Sex if forbiden also during this time to lower the issue.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 16, 2020, 02:12:07 AM
Coronavirus consequences :
 
euro : 33.22 griven  bought 
$ : more than 28 griven  bought
 
10% depreciation for the ukrainian money in one year. :rolleyes: Unfortunately bad for ukrainian people.Cheaper for strangers.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on October 16, 2020, 02:21:11 AM

Sex if forbiden also during this time to lower the issue.

Or stay with a friend to beat the curfew and see how things develop ! ;)

We were offered a Campervan ( 'RV') swap.. Friends in Normandy would use my car ... in case we fell foul of the curfews ..

Decided to cancel the visa appointment in Paris and changed our plans .. ((

SC just called to say that the RU city she booked at to have biometrics ( Rostov) is locking down... but see no news of that ?


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 20, 2020, 08:59:21 AM
Or stay with a friend to beat the curfew and see how things develop ! ;)

We were offered a Campervan ( 'RV') swap.. Friends in Normandy would use my car ... in case we fell foul of the curfews ..

Decided to cancel the visa appointment in Paris and changed our plans .. ((

SC just called to say that the RU city she booked at to have biometrics ( Rostov) is locking down... but see no news of that ?
Yep, but you have to find the female friend who wants to develop such experience lol!Wait the end of the year to plan to go to France...   

Rostov? Don't know anything about this city.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on October 20, 2020, 09:44:12 AM
SW Russia..on the River Don....the Don in Donbas(s)

Should have been in Paris, today(

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 26, 2020, 07:49:54 AM
Rostov Don,
Germans got here during the WW2 if I have good memories. 
Correct MSB?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 26, 2020, 07:55:16 AM
So the way back finally was easiest than the outward journey
   
Nobody asked me anything. No document, no PCR test. 
Nothing NICHIVO.
No quarantine. 
Not even a question during the boarding or at the customs. 
 
Now the problem is if you are seek, like you have some fever and it has nothing to do with the coronavirus.So you are in trouble. And you cannot board the plane.
 
For your attention : I signed two insurances. An european one from the air company. And the one asked by the ukrainian state. The last one will give you no money, I would not rely on them if you are in trouble. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: msmob on October 26, 2020, 08:30:00 AM
Rostov Don,
Germans got here during the WW2 if I have good memories. 
Correct MSB?

Yup, and beyond.. They got down  past Novorossiysk  on the Black Sea ( Hero City )  and got stopped before the mountains ..
Hitler was pushing for the Azeri oil fields


(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Eastern_Front_1942-11_to_1943-03.png)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 26, 2020, 12:43:43 PM
Nice map.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on October 27, 2020, 08:26:59 AM
Two weeks ago a funny thing happened.
   
My mobile phone is having his personal life and personal soul. 
This is not the first time that he tries to mess up my dating life :P   
 I think that he gets jealous to spend most of the day into a pocket because the truth is that I muzzle him most of the time.  8)   
 
So he took his revenge by taking a profil of a ukrainian woman and sent it to an other woman who is mistress.
then he sent me this :
 :mooning:
Something that reveals he is a prankster I suppose.
 
 
I got a very quick message:
WHo is she?   
Is it your new wife?
Should I contact her? 
 
The last one should I contact her" started to make me angry   
I answered:
And your husband should I contact him?
You have to calm down and quickly.   
 
And
She suddenly became very calm, very compliant and very sweet.  :popcorn:   
After I explained to her that was just a mistake done by my prankster phone ( :deadhorse: ).   
 
Take your red pill every day...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 08, 2020, 05:05:40 PM
So I finally dropped lady of Kiev dudes. 
   
You know dating and knowing people is an iterative process, additionnaly because you are dating asynchronously due to the long-distance relationship.
 
Therefore I witnessed several incidents. 
In the beginning you only record it. After a while you start to exploit it, and in the end, you draw some conclusions.
And if the conclusions are too much hurting your elementary principles in human being and gender dynamics to keep a relationship healthy, you have to take some action. 
I had to come back to the DSM 4, now updated to the fifth version, to see things clearly. This grid allows you to easily lecture the psychological disorders that some profiles can show. 
It doesn't happen in a lot of women, especially with FSU women for what I have found out. 
But in the end, I learnt it the hard way, any individual  that belittles his partner and shows some aggressiveness not justified is not a long term material partnership. 
A female friend asked me, so you are sad now.
I looked at her and it makes me smile.
 Why should you be sad when in fact you have just avoided something abusive or toxic for you?




Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on December 08, 2020, 05:27:19 PM
Why should you be sad when in fact you have just avoided something abusive or toxic for you?

OK, so was she using the whip so hard that it was cutting your skin (abusive) ?

Or, did you finally realize she was putting small amounts of arsenic into your tea/coffee (toxic) ?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 09, 2020, 02:32:59 AM
 :ROFL: ML I love you so much....
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on December 09, 2020, 10:53:45 AM
:ROFL: ML I love you so much....

Well . . . don't tell my spouse !!!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 09, 2020, 10:08:54 PM
This is a very interesting link about how to build and keep a couple :

/http://www.forbes.com/sites/kareanderson/2012/09/03/the-end-of-men-and-the-rise-of-women-and-heated-debate/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/kareanderson/2012/09/03/the-end-of-men-and-the-rise-of-women-and-heated-debate/)

the best passage imho is here :
"Contempt, they have found, is the number one factor that tears couples apart. People who are focused on criticizing their partners miss a whopping 50 percent of positive things their partners are doing and they see negativity when it’s not there. People who give their partner the cold shoulder—deliberately ignoring the partner or responding minimally—damage the relationship by making their partner feel worthless and invisible, as if they’re not there, not valued. And people who treat their partners with contempt and criticize them not only kill the love in the relationship, but they also kill their partner's ability (http://pni.osumc.edu/KG%20Publications%20%28pdf%29/109.pdf) to fight off viruses and cancers. Being mean is the death knell of relationships."

I quote myself, lol, 
But that exactly what was happening and why I left lady of Kiev.Her contempt was slowly piercing the horizon and became more present as months were passing by, and with not reasons relied to the facts.     
So contempt destroys a relationship in the end.
The mechanism is double : it lowers and destroy partner's self esteem and it is also used to manipulate him in the sense that it pushes him to react in the way waited by the perpetrator. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 09, 2020, 10:09:59 PM
Well . . . don't tell my spouse !!!
 
Only internet will know.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 27, 2021, 10:55:05 AM
So now I try to prepare for the summer.
For the moment, it's out of the question of traveling due to the coronavirus crisis and because I have a new job and cannot take the risk to suffer from something bad abroad right now.
I have two women from the same city to manage now. And one is scheduled to come to my country.
Probably if the covid don't prohibit it, for may.
I have decided to take this risk and make a try. .
We will see.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 29, 2021, 02:45:34 AM
Mistress is showing that she is a real bitch,   
No honor, no remorse, 
All immensely helped by the feminist brigades that are flooding the western courts. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 29, 2021, 07:24:11 AM
I have found out the dream I was searching for. 
A week Russian course in Kiev. 3 hours every morning for one week and possibly hanging around the city in the afternoon if you are ready to pay more.
Only coronavirus will prevent me from following this course.
If interested, ask or send me a PM.
 
I am really excited about this.
 
Even if I am quite busy, I try to keep time to learn Russian between 5 and 15 hours per month, depending on my schedule.
I hope to be able to use correct cases 80% of the time for this summer.
And learning more vocabulary and verbs are the key. 
To fix all of this in your memory, you have to write the word at least twice.
I start to write and read in miniscul cyrillic too.   
   
It's really worth of to learn it. So it's never too late to start !!!


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 29, 2021, 07:32:36 AM
 
Even if I am quite busy, I try to keep time to learn Russian between 5 and 15 hours per month, depending on my schedule.


Pat, how will this help any woman adapt to living in France ?

Ask Calmissile (Doug) about this.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: japtats on January 29, 2021, 11:51:35 AM

Pata from what I heard is employed. I am guessing he is content at the level he is at , so he doesn't need to focus on his work as before. if someone is an entrepreneur or working the career ladder , my advice forget the language, focus on improving your income.

A woman doesn't care as much as you think about the language. Spend time on your income , physical appearance , and skills in bed , the rest will follow
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 29, 2021, 12:42:23 PM
Pat, how will this help any woman adapt to living in France?

Ask Calmissile (Doug) about this.

Dear ML, I hope your health is improving and the pain is lowering.
She will have no problem adapting because it's me who is intended to adapt to Ukraine.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on January 29, 2021, 05:03:56 PM

Dear ML, I hope your health is improving and the pain is lowering.
She will have no problem adapting because it's me who is intended to adapt to Ukraine.

Thanks a lot for your kind words regarding my health.  Still a lot of pain.

Yes, I always say the couple needs to know the language of where they will live.

So if you are going East to live, then OK.

But if it's to Lviv, then Ukrainian language the only way to go.

Also, I always advise USA folks of the foolishness of thinking they can retire to somewhere outside USA because our Medicare will not cover you outside USA.

Eventually all USA folks will need medical care, and it will cost a ton to enroll in the supplemental medical and prescription plans if you don't sign up and pay from first required date.  There are penalties because otherwise people would wait until they are sick to enroll.

Of course you (as French citizen) are more near the EU for medical care if you live in Ukraine, but still the concern about traveling for medical care when you are on a stretcher or in a coma !!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 30, 2021, 12:07:20 PM
You have been remarkably courageous—hat off.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 30, 2021, 12:33:38 PM
Your topic is of the utmost importance. 
I think that people will care about this health topic accordingly to their age. It's probably better for the US guys who have no Medicare or very little protection to go abroad. 
In Ukraine, it needs to be checked, but I think public hospitals are not opened for foreigners. But private hospitals will never be as expensive as US hospitals.
I think that heavy surgery costs 20 times less in Ukraine than in the USA, from the data I have. But I don't know how much it costs in a private clinic in Ukraine.  But in the end, it cannot cost as much. Probably you divide the cost by 5. Of course, what is the level of trust do you give to them. That's a good question.
 
From what I know, french Medicare will be active when I return to France, and subscribing to a special ex-pat french Medicare should protect me abroad.
But interesting question, what is to be an ex-pat?   
If your main revenue is coming from France, you are still a French resident whatever the time you spend abroad. 
That should be my case in the future.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on January 30, 2021, 12:38:25 PM
Maxx2, if you read us, maybe you can write some information here, about how things are happening for you.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on February 07, 2021, 12:59:17 AM
I have found out the dream I was searching for. 
A week Russian course in Kiev. 3 hours every morning for one week and possibly hanging around the city in the afternoon if you are ready to pay more.
That sounds great. I think I saw a similar type of course in Siberia but was fairly expensive for local prices/wages.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 07, 2021, 01:30:23 AM
If I remind it correctly, it's about $300 for a week, but not sure if it's 5 or 7 days, normally 7;
If you hang out in the afternoon, you have to pay more, it's normal, their time is not free.
The school is around Patsa Sportu University, a perfect spot in Kiev so you are close to the city center.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 12, 2021, 12:21:24 PM
I have found out another way to bring information to people 
I think mostly about newbies, many of whom are often lurking on RWD
   
For example, about dating costs in Ukraine:   
 
http://youtu.be/igsqzZhiynA (http://youtu.be/igsqzZhiynA)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 12, 2021, 12:26:35 PM
Or why Slavic women are not smiling at first sight :
       
http://youtu.be/_1c5Is5Ao9g (http://youtu.be/_1c5Is5Ao9g)

 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 12, 2021, 12:28:52 PM
And for the old guard, maybe you will discover some unknown things about the German occupation during ww2:
   
   
http://youtu.be/0nrI9cecTrk (http://youtu.be/0nrI9cecTrk)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 12, 2021, 12:35:26 PM
There are many other videos,   :P ,  so if you want to know more, go there :   

                                          http://m.youtube.com/channel/UC2a4lsyFm8UG32MhHnZoRXg (http://m.youtube.com/channel/UC2a4lsyFm8UG32MhHnZoRXg)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 12, 2021, 12:46:26 PM
Starting by the introduction followed by basics 101, is also not so bad  8) (for newbies)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on February 12, 2021, 01:29:02 PM
Pat thanks for the layout of info.

Should be helpful for many.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 12, 2021, 02:27:40 PM
Pat thanks for the layout of info.

Should be helpful for many.

Thanks ML, l read that your condition is still severe. Are you breathing correctly?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on February 12, 2021, 07:19:37 PM

Thanks ML, l read that your condition is still severe. Are you breathing correctly?

My breathing is better, but still somewhat labored and short of breath.
So far, wife has decided to keep me !!!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on February 13, 2021, 12:31:09 PM



Pat, I don't know who's making the videos but there should be beautiful women in there. When shown on Youtube as a video a person can choose to watch, beautiful women get lots of attention and clicks. Mix in scenes of women and of the FSU throughout the video would hold a man's attention. A guy's little head will tell him to watch the video long enough so his big head may learn some useful tips.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Davo on February 14, 2021, 03:51:23 AM
Great content for newbies Pat... well done!!!

I’ve subscribed and can’t wait to see more!!!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 14, 2021, 08:05:32 AM


Pat, I don't know who's making the videos, but there should be beautiful women in there. When shown on Youtube as a video a person can choose to watch, beautiful women get lots of attention and clicks. Mix in scenes of women and of the FSU throughout the video would hold a man's attention. A guy's little head will tell him to watch the video long enough so his big head may learn some useful tips.

You are right, but is a gorgeous woman driving a car in an ad makes the car better?
No. The trick is used by every dishonest dating site that drags 80% of western men to abuse them financially, emotionally.
Additionally, today you have to get every woman's permission to collaborate on a video normally, which means that some guy who has a youtube channel based on looks pays a way or another the women who are showing up.
It doesn't prove anything about if he is successful or not. Except when you see him pushing a woman in the bed and having sex with her (I know a coach who provides such videos).

Billy, you are the guy who has worked hard in life.
This idea of how girls are easy is constantly promoted by the industry, every scammer, and many dating coaches. It implies that you have to show up as American or European or drop few approach lines to a girl and you will get your top model.
And we all know that just a lie.

 
 
This is what is described in this video, in a way.
http://youtu.be/wygHeYY_Xbw (http://youtu.be/wygHeYY_Xbw)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 14, 2021, 08:12:44 AM
Great content for newbies Pat... well done!!!

I’ve subscribed and can’t wait to see more!!!
Thanks, Davo.
It will bring more popularity if more people subscribe.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on February 14, 2021, 11:23:51 AM

You are right, but is a gorgeous woman driving a car in an ad makes the car better?
No. The trick is used by every dishonest dating site that drags 80% of western men to abuse them financially, emotionally.
Additionally, today you have to get every woman's permission to collaborate on a video normally, which means that some guy who has a youtube channel based on looks pays a way or another the women who are showing up.
It doesn't prove anything about if he is successful or not. Except when you see him pushing a woman in the bed and having sex with her (I know a coach who provides such videos).

Billy, you are the guy who has worked hard in life.
This idea of how girls are easy is constantly promoted by the industry, every scammer, and many dating coaches. It implies that you have to show up as American or European or drop few approach lines to a girl and you will get your top model.
And we all know that just a lie.

 
 
This is what is described in this video, in a way.



Front cover of the video shows a guy grabbing a girls butt. There are girls in bikinis in the video too! I'm sure this video will get more views than the others. Sure there is deception in this industry because not everybody will end up with a model with a body that rocks but those kinds of women do grab men's attention. 20% of the most beautiful women get 80% of the attention. When I started this endeavor, if only average looking women were shown on websites, I probably wouldn't spend $5000 on a first date. I wouldn't even take a second look at the websites.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 14, 2021, 02:33:42 PM

Front cover of the video shows a guy grabbing a girls butt. There are girls in bikinis in the video too! I'm sure this video will get more views than the others. Sure there is deception in this industry because not everybody will end up with a model with a body that rocks but those kinds of women do grab men's attention. 20% of the most beautiful women get 80% of the attention. When I started this endeavor, if only average looking women were shown on websites, I probably wouldn't spend $5000 on a first date. I wouldn't even take a second look at the websites.
 
Thank for your post and honesty Billy.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 25, 2021, 11:52:27 PM
RWD, this guy can help you: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT3d6C6ldCg&list=PLNHnL8hclQYt0EUUP_4yyD_Cd596TNJbg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT3d6C6ldCg&list=PLNHnL8hclQYt0EUUP_4yyD_Cd596TNJbg)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: rwd123 on February 26, 2021, 03:56:31 AM
RWD, this guy can help you: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT3d6C6ldCg&list=PLNHnL8hclQYt0EUUP_4yyD_Cd596TNJbg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT3d6C6ldCg&list=PLNHnL8hclQYt0EUUP_4yyD_Cd596TNJbg)
This looks like a great channel for comprehension. He speaks clearly at a moderate pace, and the sentences are not too long. Subscribed!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 26, 2021, 04:02:15 AM
 :thumbsup: 
With Max, you start to believe that you are good at Russian. It's good to dream! lol
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 26, 2021, 05:39:18 PM
Anti-scamming tips for taxis and restaurants, and commentaries on the dating life of a guy spending 4 days in Odessa mainly: 
                     http://youtu.be/DeVaUdxyHug (http://youtu.be/DeVaUdxyHug)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 08, 2021, 03:18:47 PM
This video is hilarious.
Basically, she complains that many of her female friends between 25-40 years don't get any orgasms. So if you know of to please a woman in the bed a boulevard is opened to you in Ukraine. 
I imagine the husbands' of her female friends watching the videos ... What a shock.
  :ROFL:   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pqoZC0w_ss (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pqoZC0w_ss)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 08, 2021, 03:21:10 PM
Each time I rewatch this video I cannot stop to  :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
 
 :P :P :P 
Put the subtitles in English if needed
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 08, 2021, 03:23:27 PM
1.09 
Eta realna tragedia ...

  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 08, 2021, 03:27:03 PM
I recommend 0.38 of course
 

 :couple: :applaud: :truce:
Title: Operation White Panther
Post by: 2tallbill on March 08, 2021, 04:14:40 PM
Basically, she complains that many of her female friends between 25-40 years don't get
any orgasms. So if you know of to please a woman in the bed a boulevard is opened to
you in Ukraine. 

If the women are normal, healthy women without psychological or physical problems
then what they need to do is to put their index fingers on their foreheads.

Now they have their finger on the problem(s). The problem is most likely that they
don't communicate what they like, want, need, desire to whoever they are having
sex with OR the person they are having sex with doesn't care. Once again that's
their problem, they need to dump the person who doesn't care and then give
themselves a spanking for being in a relationship with somebody who doesn't
care.

If she and the person they are having sex are communicating well and she still
has problems then she should consult professional medical help.

The idea that men are supposed to read females minds is ludicrous. The theory
the the next girl you have sex with will enjoy everything exactly the same as
whatever previous girls you had sex with is silly too.

She needs to communicate and to stop thinking that men should read her mind. 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 09, 2021, 12:19:57 PM
"The idea that men are supposed to read females minds is ludicrous. The theory
the the next girl you have sex with will enjoy everything exactly the same as
whatever previous girls you had sex with is silly too." 
+1     
But maybe a lot of men are also not really into communication. I am not sure that many UM are  really keen to talk about such topic, especially if they share at least 50% of responsability and male proudness is involved.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on March 09, 2021, 02:43:36 PM
The theory the the next girl you have sex with will enjoy everything exactly the same as
whatever previous girls you had sex with is silly too.

Yes, there can be some very substantial differences from woman to woman.  Probably the same can be said for men.

I found that most women preferred the Cowgirl position, but a few refused.
Most all women were into oral sex for both partners, but a few refused.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 10, 2021, 01:03:35 PM
Yes, there can be some very substantial differences from woman to woman.  Probably the same can be said for men.

I found that most women preferred the Cowgirl position, but a few refused.
Most all women were into oral sex for both partners, but a few refused.
   
Accordingly to your experience, what's the rate of women refusing anal sex?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 10, 2021, 01:06:58 PM
EXCLUSIVE:     
Very few insiders in RWD approached this type of people, the scammers who work behind your computer and answer you on video chat and text chat: 
   
http://youtu.be/oV53HnM7244 (http://youtu.be/oV53HnM7244)     
 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on March 10, 2021, 03:30:52 PM
   
Accordingly to your experience, what's the rate of women refusing anal sex?

Actually I never ask for anal sex.
And, believe it or not, I had no experience with anal sex until I started spending time with FSU gals.

Surprised me when the first one asked for it.
Then there were a few others; but less than 1%.

Some years back a neighbor man, who was a liberal arts professor and a voracious reader, reported to me that some survey indicated something like 65% of Texas women preferred anal sex to vaginal sex.

And I remember reading within the last year or so that some Teen magazine was promoting anal sex as a way to cut down on teen pregnancies.

And who remembers what happened to Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders when she voiced her opinions on teen sex practices?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on March 10, 2021, 05:09:23 PM
I had no experience with anal sex until I started spending time with FSU gals.



Same here. I had only two FSU girls ask me for it. It was their first time. They wanted to do it with a man they could trust.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 11, 2021, 01:57:51 AM
This topic is quite interesting and rarely investigated.
 
I think that quite a lot of women have tried it, provided that they don't have a furious opposition against it. But quite a lot had pain and or no satisfaction with the experience. Probably mainly because men couldn't lead correctly their pleasure.
 
However, when they have explored this sexual time and enjoyed it; they can have tremendous pleasure, more than the usual way, and be fond of it.
 
To go further you need a tight bond, a lot of comfort with her to push the limits. Additionally, anal sex still has some prohibitions in society, and crossing prohibitions is always exciting. New experiences are welcomed today.   
I am sure that couples meet also some genital limitations and we are not necessarily compatible in this area for everything.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: BillyB on March 11, 2021, 09:15:09 AM



Personally, anal sex doesn't turn me on and I recommend people don't do it since it can affect a person's ability to keep their feces inside which leads to diaper wearing.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on March 11, 2021, 09:44:17 AM


Personally, anal sex doesn't turn me on and I recommend people don't do it since it can affect a person's ability to keep their feces inside which leads to diaper wearing.

Billy, you can reach a more appropriate audience if you preach to the gay men's club.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 12, 2021, 04:56:45 AM
Billy, you can reach a more appropriate audience if you preach to the gay men's club.
 
 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on March 29, 2021, 08:20:53 AM
Surprising those women who couldn't stop to write you on the chat when you are on a dating site is .... tasty....Especially when it's a man  :P :P :P
 
Enjoy.
   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjNZlvJSdmw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjNZlvJSdmw)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on April 07, 2021, 03:58:22 AM
Ukraine is now almost blocked by the quarantine and many big cities in the red zone. But orange is not necessarily better. 
My plan to go in May is on a fine line and I hope to get vaccinated before making any plan. 
 
The flight ticket could also be a PIA. Among my friends' many cancellations.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on April 07, 2021, 06:42:35 AM
So now I am preparing my ad for the next dating campaign. 
 
Choosing my photos, writing my ad, searching in my soul what I would like to be and what I would like to live, how I would like love to open the door.   
And when I have finished writing, I will ask a pro to review my ad in Russian and correct it. 
 
I try to find the exact size of myself, without lies, and without false promises and keeping a lot of blank to let me a lot of space around me. 
 
I am confident that time will show me the way. 
Setting up goals, speeding up things is just the pressure of some insecurities. 
   
I am sure that, like Uptake, I can have a golden time partially in Ukraine, moving from a location to another with a nice woman.
My previous girlfriend, lady of Kyiv, was close to who I wanted to be, but too far by the fact she was psychologically unhealthy in the long term.
 One of the main problems with FSU women is to define the limits of the "providing man" by your own and not by her standards.
   
In my opinion, balance is a sophisticated and difficult exercise—the most difficult exercise for a long-term relationship.
 
By nature, I am not against playing my role, but by force, I don't want to land in the hands of the feminazi court again. And also don't want to dedicate and jeopardize my financial power for a woman.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on April 07, 2021, 07:57:50 AM
Pat, I have a little different take on preparing 'the ad.'

Turn it around and consider what we think of the 'ad' written by FSU gals.

Myself, I didn't pay too much attention to their written words . . . except for those who told in strong terms that their main goal was financial support.

Instead, I did my search based on my desired variables of height, weight, English ability, education, age range, non smoking, lite drinking, etc.

Now back to your 'ad.'

Just a carefully written and fairly short outline of your education, work background, hobbies, favorite foods, etc.

I think the women will choose to answer you based on similar variables that we are looking at.  i.e. age, height, education, smoking, drinking, etc.

They probably think as we do . . . that most of the written stuff is just BS anyway.  :-)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on April 07, 2021, 08:38:56 AM
Pat, I have a little different take on preparing 'the ad.'

Turn it around and consider what we think of the 'ad' written by FSU gals.

Myself, I didn't pay too much attention to their written words . . . except for those who told in strong terms that their main goal was financial support.

Instead, I did my search based on my desired variables of height, weight, English ability, education, age range, non smoking, lite drinking, etc.

Now back to your 'ad.'

Just a carefully written and fairly short outline of your education, work background, hobbies, favorite foods, etc.

I think the women will choose to answer you based on similar variables that we are looking at.  i.e. age, height, education, smoking, drinking, etc.

They probably think as we do . . . that most of the written stuff is just BS anyway.  :-)


Dear ML,
First I would like how you feel better.If you have started to recover because I think the process could be quite long, considering your wounds' gravity.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on April 07, 2021, 08:48:43 AM
For the ad,   
My answer will be quite different than yours.
First, because women don't work like men.
They are largely more prone to read the text than men. 
 
An d they will more than many pay attention to mine because it will be written in Russian, and that's an outstanding advantage, of course. 
 
And because I don't want to stay in the crowd, I will not do this: 
"Just a carefully written and fairly short outline of your education, work background, hobbies, favorite foods, etc."
 
But will propose them to share a dream, share a project, something they can step in, and oblige them to fight to take their place.
We move from the passive position to the active position,
We move from an inanimate woman who reads an ad to a woman who wants to read and meet this man and start to type on her keyboard to move on. 
 
Of course, and for a long time, I never click or contact a profile where "generous" is written. We know what to expect, and the word is the same in every country, no cultural difference, women stay the same about "generous" men.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on April 07, 2021, 12:38:28 PM

But will propose them to share a dream, share a project, something they can step in, and oblige them to fight to take their place.

OK, I like this.

You are more creative and romantic than I am.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on April 07, 2021, 12:43:21 PM


Dear ML,
First I would like how you feel better.  If you have started to recover because I think the process could be quite long, considering your wounds' gravity.

Thanks for asking.

I am not doing well.

A lot of problems came up due to incompetence of doctors in an administrative sense.  Scheduling, etc.

As a result, my clavicle will never be fixed.  In turn, this leads to a misalignment of all my muscles and bone structure going down from shoulder all the way to my waist area.

A lot of pain which will never go away . . . and worse that I cannot complete a lot of physical work that needs to be done.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on April 08, 2021, 02:21:07 PM
Thanks for asking.

I am not doing well.

A lot of problems came up due to incompetence of doctors in an administrative sense.  Scheduling, etc.

As a result, my clavicle will never be fixed.  In turn, this leads to a misalignment of all my muscles and bone structure going down from shoulder all the way to my waist area.

A lot of pain which will never go away . . . and worse that I cannot complete a lot of physical work that needs to be done.
That's a pity. Clavicle seems useless, but when you have broken it, and I did in the past, you realize that you need it.
I hope that you will be treated correctly soon.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on April 09, 2021, 04:27:55 AM
The Covid starts to have some weird effects. 
He not only killed many people, but he also seems to kill my dating leads. I mean the ones that I have from the past.I recently lost one, but not really surprised by her personality.
And the older one looks fed up. 
 
I will restart all brand new, lol.  :P 
No ghost, everything new for this summer.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on April 10, 2021, 04:07:05 AM
My new last video
Why men spend $400 million trying to communicate with Ukrainian women, but finally, barely anything happens to them.
How much is paid the "translators" business partners? Why the premium sites still trap 95% of men on the internet...
Enjoy...   
   
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfbO_7-gz4E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfbO_7-gz4E)

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: cameraguymn on April 10, 2021, 08:57:19 AM
it is difficult for me to believe that 65% of women anywhere prefer anal sex to vaginal sex.

My impression is that women do it to please men.

Actually I never ask for anal sex.
And, believe it or not, I had no experience with anal sex until I started spending time with FSU gals.

Surprised me when the first one asked for it.
Then there were a few others; but less than 1%.

Some years back a neighbor man, who was a liberal arts professor and a voracious reader, reported to me that some survey indicated something like 65% of Texas women preferred anal sex to vaginal sex.

And I remember reading within the last year or so that some Teen magazine was promoting anal sex as a way to cut down on teen pregnancies.

And who remembers what happened to Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders when she voiced her opinions on teen sex practices?
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on April 10, 2021, 10:35:22 AM
it is difficult for me to believe that 65% of women anywhere prefer anal sex to vaginal sex.

My impression is that women do it to please men.
65%? Where this statistic comes from?It doesn't match my experience too.Yes, the starting point is that women do it first to please men, but later, if this is well done and all being individual...
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on April 10, 2021, 12:47:04 PM
it is difficult for me to believe that 65% of women anywhere prefer anal sex to vaginal sex.

My impression is that women do it to please men.

OK, well let me add that both men and women can achieve an anal orgasm from having an object moving in their anus.  It is the strong pleasurable feeling from passing a large turd.

So the women who asked me to insert my dick into their anus wanted it because they knew it would feel good; not because they were trying to please me.

So with gay men, both the pitcher and catcher enjoy anal sex; then they reverse positions and enjoy a second time.

Thus gay men enjoy sex twice as much as straight men and; according to what I have read, gay men participate in sex acts more often than straight men do . . . you can understand why.

This same study further ranked interest in sex from highest as:
1) Gay men
2) Straight men
3) Gay women
4) Straight women

Don't know for sure, but the butch gay gals probably have higher testosterone levels.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Intrepid Traveler on April 10, 2021, 03:12:58 PM
I will provide a brief excerpt from the Vagina Bible by Dr. Jen Gunter, who is an expert in obstetrics and gynecology. For those not familiar with Dr. Jen Gunter, she is active on Twitter @DrJenGunter, and she also writes articles for the New York Times.

Quote
Anal sex has been increasing since the 1990s, according to surveys in the United States, United Kingdom, Sweden, and Croatia. It is unknown if this is a true increase, meaning more women are truly practicing anal sex, or if more women feel comfortable reporting it due to changes in sexual mores. Currently, 30–46 percent of women report at least one lifetime experience with receptive anal sex, and 10–12 percent report it is a regular part of their sexual repertoire. Reasons women give for engaging in anal sex include pleasing their partner (the most common reason), their own pleasure, vaginal sex is painful, and to maintain their virginity. A lot of people report seeing anal sex in pornography as a reason for trying it, although it is important to remember that pornography is acting and not documentary filmmaking. Sex in porn is about as realistic as driving is in car chase scenes in action movies. Seeing something in porn and wanting to try it is fine, but it is possible that the normalization of anal sex in porn leads some to have false beliefs about the frequency of anal sex in heterosexual relationships.

. . .

Anal sex is often promoted as “better” for men because the anus is a “tighter” orifice. This plays on tired tropes that a vagina is “too loose” for male enjoyment, especially after a woman has been sexually active vaginally or after pregnancy.

. . .

Women should try anal sex if the idea appeals to them and they want to explore their sexuality, not because their male partner thinks everyone is doing it or is obsessed with the imagined size of his penis.

WHAT DOES ANAL SEX FEEL LIKE? Studies indicate that approximately 50 percent of women who have anal intercourse find it arousing, although pain is often an issue. At least 50 percent of women report their first episode of anal sex was painful enough that they needed to stop, so it is important to ensure your partner is willing to go slow and abandon the effort if required. Only 27 percent of women who are sexually active anally report little or no pain, so whether the pleasure payoff is worth it for you will be an individual choice.


Gunter, Jen. The Vagina Bible (pp. 37-38). Random House of Canada. Kindle Edition.

In Twitter threads, she defines herself as an expert on the vagina.

As we see from the quote, her sample does not include FSU countries, and we do not know the thoroughness of any surveys. In other words, the quote represents her understanding.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on April 10, 2021, 03:21:38 PM
I will provide a brief excerpt from the Vagina Bible by Dr. Jen Gunter, who is an expert in obstetrics and gynecology. For those not familiar with Dr. Jen Gunter, she is active on Twitter @DrJenGunter, and she also writes articles for the New York Times.

Gunter, Jen. The Vagina Bible (pp. 37-38). Random House of Canada. Kindle Edition.

In Twitter threads, she defines herself as an expert on the vagina.

As we see from the quote, her sample does not include FSU countries, and we do not know the thoroughness of any surveys. In other words, the quote represents her understanding.

Nice post  :clapping:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on April 11, 2021, 09:51:31 AM
Let me add some input regarding the pain felt (or not) by catchers during anal sex.

It is all a matter of preparation.

Why isn't there anal pain (usually) from a bowel movement ?
Pain comes from trying to insert an object into anus when the sphincter muscle is contracted.
When a bowel movement begins, the body automatically relaxes the sphincter muscle.

So the key to less or even no pain from anal sex is a relaxed sphincter muscle.
This can be achieved in several ways.
I shall state only two:

1) Starting insertion with a small diameter object which does not cause any pain, and gradually increasing the size of the objects.  The sphincter muscle will gradually loosen to accept the larger objects without pain.  Use your imagination.

2) Everyone knows (or should) that heat relaxes muscles.  Hot water will relax the sphincter muscle.  Use your imagination.

End result . . . anal sex can be completely pain free for catcher and pitcher.

Now is anal sex more pleasurable for the pitcher compared to vaginal sex ?

The highest pleasure for pitcher comes from head of penis moving in and out of anal opening, which is still generally smaller than vaginal opening, even when sphincter muscle is relaxed.

However, female catchers (my only experience) told me most pleasure for them was not from the above movement, but rather from gentle movement after penis is fully inserted.

But for the pitcher, full insertion will leave penis floating around in a large void, not unlike inside large vagina with minimal friction felt, hence not conducive for orgasm. 

Thus, no greater pleasure from anal sex as compared to vaginal sex for pitcher.

Except for first time or so . . . when the exotic and forbidden idea can be very exciting.

Note: As I wrote earlier, very few of the FSU gals I was with suggested anal sex (I never did), but those who did were very knowledgeable about it, the best techniques, etc.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on April 28, 2021, 11:12:15 AM
So I think that now we know everything about anal sex. Lol, thank the contributors!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on April 29, 2021, 04:24:25 AM
Do you know that you often talk with bots or advanced programmed software in your online communication.
The proof: !!!             
http://youtu.be/9C1vvSd3W9E (http://youtu.be/9C1vvSd3W9E)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 17, 2021, 05:55:12 PM
So my Russian summer courses for this summer are canceled. 
The fact is that due to the covid the teacher with whom I have been in contact stoppedthe classrooms.   
It was structured on a weekly basis, by level, and by group size.
I was aiming for a small group, intermediate level, in the morning only. 
 
All this was supposed to happen in Kiev.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on May 17, 2021, 08:12:03 PM

All this was supposed to happen in Kiev.

Maybe the class will be in Kyiv !!  :-)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 18, 2021, 03:45:25 AM
Maybe the class will be in Kyiv !!  :-)
Yes, all depend on the Russian invasion lol ;D
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on May 23, 2021, 12:46:58 AM
For your safety, and also because there was a "fox"; a foreigner operating in Ukraine before the covid and using drugs to rob other foreigners ... better to watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9CE5Ga3dIQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9CE5Ga3dIQ)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 21, 2021, 04:34:24 AM
Hi fellas,I will be in Ukraine from the 24th of September till the 17th of October.
So if you want to meet, contact me by PM.
 
Udachi!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 26, 2021, 12:48:06 PM
In the city,
And already quite a lot of adventure.
Cannot complain.
Found a handy flat located where I wanted.
Run today in a nearby park.
Found a beautiful coffee restaurant in it.
Perfect for a ... date. 
Danced yesterday night. 
Discovered another place to go, a new spot... 
   
And now as I have already three opportunities I let it go smoothly to let destiny showing me the blue carpet.
Lost one lead by sending the same message to two women, so lost one. Understand the lady, my fault  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 26, 2021, 01:03:11 PM
I met very different women last week western/eastern women
They are very different when you start to play around with their true self.
I have to apologize to categorize them because this is only me trying to sort them; in fact 
I found out a lot of distance between where I put them and where I found them. 
It is just a question of intimacy in the souls, but you need tons of time to get in for some.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 26, 2021, 01:06:07 PM
The concept of presupposition is aiming you for predestination.
This concept has some ground in FSU, the popular belief is to not talk about bad things to avoid them to happen.
Unfortunately, it's some time cultivated to a point when nothing at all is scheduled, so nothing bad happens maybee but also nothing good...  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on September 26, 2021, 01:11:26 PM
Guys, The key is managing the link from very scratch, an art in itself  :P   
An ALL is about calibration.
Calibration is about frequency X length X quality = opportunity
Duration of the link * opportunity = level of the interest
And this calibration is also defining, at least for a part,  the consistency of the interest.
Good night fellas  :flowers:
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on September 26, 2021, 01:24:28 PM
Lost one lead by sending the same message to two women, so lost one. Understand the lady, my fault  :rolleyes:

I only did that one time, out of several hundred messages.

I sent same message to two women asking if her ankle was feeling better.  Only one had a sprained ankle !!!  :-(

Are you slipping ?

Try using a spreadsheet.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 13, 2022, 11:46:03 AM
A little video for all foreigners that are in Ukraine

http://youtu.be/385qOJTyRzg (http://youtu.be/385qOJTyRzg)
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on February 13, 2022, 03:14:07 PM
Excellent post Pat.

I am in awe of your knowledge of many things about Ukraine.

Your detailed listing of what is needed to get out of Ukraine as quickly and efficiently as possible SHOULD be appreciated by many folks.

Thanks much.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 13, 2022, 04:56:57 PM
Excellent post Pat.

I am in awe of your knowledge of many things about Ukraine.

Your detailed listing of what is needed to get out of Ukraine as quickly and efficiently as possible SHOULD be appreciated by many folks.

Thanks much.
 

Thank you very much, ML for your comment! I have read your last MP and answered you, very nice post, I liked it!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 16, 2022, 05:22:20 PM
The political season, the medical season, and the geostrategic season actually make me stay at home.But I hope to come back soon to Ukraine, provided it's not full of new inhabitants wearing strange uniforms.
I do have some personal business to achieve also. 
 
So I hope to be good for April in the best case. Probably May.
 
Do you have any projects?

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 18, 2022, 04:21:42 PM
I consider that we are unfortunately in the last steps of a major conflict.
Brick by brick that wall has been built and we are now to the end.
If Russia decides to make the last move, it's a question of hours or a few days.




Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 21, 2022, 04:45:50 PM
Now the armed struggle is coming next. Unfortunately.
The game continues (for the President of the Russian Federation).
For the others (Western countries) the feeling of having their trousers on their knees
is not gonna to vanish.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: GQBlues on February 21, 2022, 05:10:39 PM
Now the armed struggle is coming next. Unfortunately.
The game continues (for the President of the Russian Federation).
For the others (Western countries) the feeling of having their trousers on their knees
is not gonna to vanish.


 :P


No truer words were ever posted on this board!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on February 22, 2022, 03:05:40 AM

 :P


No truer words were ever posted on this board!
Thank you man!
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2022, 04:58:36 AM
A little video for all foreigners that are in Ukraine

I was, unfortunately, right, 5 weeks before the war started I published this video.
The war really happened in Ukraine. Many political leaders and even HQ didn't understand the warning signs displayed by Russia, unfortunately. 
They hadn't understand that every thing is written by the book because Russia has to erect a story for the people that are basically trapped inside the country.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2022, 05:08:46 AM
This last year had screwed up many things in my life and I just come back to the scene slowly.   
The war especially has changed everything and you need to recompose everything for dating purposes. 
As a result dating FSU women is a very risky thing right now, more than ever.
The trustable agencies have gone  basically and the marriage is the gate for a stable life. 
 
How to sort out the good sheeps from the bad sheeps? More difficult than ever.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2022, 05:17:47 AM
The veterans here have already noticed that dating with FSU women has highly shifted last two decades.
 And so I did. 
I came to the conclusion that I have to definitively change my way to move through the dating field by improving my repertoire (my game).  The turning point was the 6 weeks I spent in Ukraine last year with low results compare to what I had achieved before. And now the game is not only the meeting(s) but how you are noticed and how you could be preselected. 
You, unfortunately, have to have a strategy on internet. That's not the most exciting conclusion I came through, but that's necessary.   
Because this strategy of "paraître" to look rather than "être" to be 
is by essence, the pivot of why I hate the most: "shallowness".
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2022, 05:26:30 AM
The reason now, ESPECIALLY at war time, is that women want to filter you out quickly due to the fact that TONS of guys try to hit them every minute (if they are cute  :P ), so they need a way to find out if you are worth of.   
And they will not even loose time to open the communication to find it out, too time consuming.   
   
At this moment you would tell me that you can invent you a life, but in practice, on the run, I don't think so. 
 
My thinking is supported by a buddy of mine who looks like a top model and who is in these internet applications, called, you know, FB, Instagram, Odnaklassniki etc...
He knows how to setup photos, profiles and so on, and used to publish on them. (it's not that I am totally stupid with graphics and how to setup a profile  ;D , but he clearly has experience on this type of)


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: krimster2 on November 11, 2022, 12:28:10 PM
the problem you describe is a condition of the strategy you employ for your "game"
tinder, instagram, etc all rely on the "direct sales approach"
basically, you are selling yourself online in a VERY competitive market
which produces disappointing results if you don't come across as a 5 star product

instead, try an indirect approach
try selling something else FIRST!!!
take a hobby or interest and learn how to promote it online
make a Russian/Ukrainian version of this and then go promote it on VK, etc
if you have a popular subject you can get a LOT of hits from wimmin
and this is the beginning
you target these advance sales leads with more advertising
and THEN you start selling yourself!!!

my favorite way of doing this was with art!!
I enjoy painting as a hobby, and I used to paint landscapes publicly in Russia
an obvious foreigner painting in a public space
will draw a lot of inquisitive attention, especially from Women
smile when you make eye contact
it's easy!!!

another thing that got HUGE attention from Women was jewelry!!
I bought a lot of platinum in Russia and used ito make jewelry
I sold it on consignment, and basically doubled my investment
as well as getting a LOT of female attention
ahhh, the life of a Russian jewelry salesman!
NICE!!

go down some path like this instead of directly selling yourself
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2022, 05:21:35 PM
Your approach is interesting and original Krim.
Is your VK was centered on the products that you were selling?How would you do such thing today?
 Sending to Ukraine by postal, getting the money by Paypal?
   
I have an idea for a product that only women need and I never found this product in Ukraine. When my ex girlfriend tested it she asked me to bring some from France.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: krimster2 on November 11, 2022, 05:40:27 PM

yeah, I've used PayPal for paying vendors in Ukraine AND Russia until February this year
Russia is out of the picture now due to all the banking sanctions
so is Ukraine...
cuz of the war

that means that instead of a "bizness" it has to be a "hobby" site
gardening, pets, crafts, etc
but in Russian/Ukrainian
be creative





Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: northkape on November 11, 2022, 06:30:35 PM
Yes, Yes,,
Occasionally,,, I do agree with Krims ideas,,,,

When fishing,,
prepare your bait for the kind of catch you are looking for.

When preparing the lure for my "Ukraine-Wife-Trap", for the second time,,
my focus was on the first few words in my generic letter,
to be mailed to 3000+ women in all of Ukraine that had a profile close to my search criteria.

As I was looking for a young single mother with a single child,
those first words were kind of a mischievous inquiry about her child.

More than 10% took the hook, line, and sinker, by feeling compelled to answer.
Next, was showing photos of the almost magical wonders, I had experienced together with my twin boys.
Creating a vision, a dream, in her mind, that this would be possible for her child also.

No need to be rich,, or look like Brad Pitt..
Even my low height got neglected immediately, when that dreamy vision was inserted into her mind.

In all of my encounters with women I wanted to date, I used the same technique, through all of my life.
Creating a vision about a wonderful future in front of her, me being the ladder for climbing up, into that dream.

Got me more than fifty notches in my belt, before leaving those teenage years behind me :-)

And a great thing about this technique,,
It mostly works on intelligent women only.

To paraphrase Krim,,,
Don't focus on yourself, prepare a lure that that catches her interest, then get ready for an easy date,,,

Read my long story here:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=15509.0


 
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2022, 10:03:30 PM
North, I don't need to go on your link, I already read your story.
And I remember quite well your site and how you were monitoring visitors to how many time they were spending watching the photos.
 
But guys you deliver with Insta the message you want them to get. Your job is to provide the content in the sense of the result of what you want to achieved correlated with the perfect message (short) that is on your Tinder/Badoo/Elena models/Fdating/XXXXX/YYYYYY profile.
That's a combo.
 
And how you know that a woman is interested?
When she follows you. 
 
"Creating a vision about a wonderful future in front of her", I would replace it by something less poetic or ecstatic "creating a vision about a future in common".Two on three of my last meetings were matching quite well what I wanted to achieve but I am pretty sure the results could be tenfold better with a "backend" (your site, Insta or FB) because it works as a story book and as an identity proof.
I suppose you maybe know but you can put some videos, and Insta bets on this to compete with his opponents (Tik Tok and so on), so the delivery could be quite powerful depending on what are your communication skills.
 
Of course the first sentences (women are reading profiles, most of the time, if they like the photos) are the most important. This recommendation is always true in any editing media and especially on internet medias nowadays. 
 
"prepare your bait for the kind of catch you are looking for", the real bait is in the site you have prepared (the first time I think? But you did it also the second time also? Seems to me.  Don't need to make a site, several social applications are done for this.
 
I do agree with you North, each pot has his own slide, you don't need to be E Musk or B Pitt, just find them, sort them out, meet them and this long process, which looks daunting, should deliver his result. I am not ranking a 5 stars but do believe that I could drop a 4 stars, the main thing are not on the photos and that's why I loose a lot of prospects with just a profile on a dating application in the new 2.0 world. You have to not miss the 2.0 digit.


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 11, 2022, 10:12:14 PM
Lets say at least that I want to make a try and will correct it later if necessary. 
I don't aim such age difference, in this area your success is exceptional, especially accordingly to the fact that you bring these two lovely ladies at home.
I am not aiming for this again, I did it once when I was married but I would prefer to relocate at least partially. And FSU countries tolerate more than us significant age difference. 
But I found out that there are very nice women in their fourties that remove you the problem of children, which I am totally fine with it.   
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 13, 2022, 04:26:40 PM
For newbies:
You will find many women who DON'T want to emigrate (in normal time, I don't speak about the present time in Ukraine) but they are ready to meet some foreigners, provided that these men emigrate themselves. 
Generally speaking, they are, or they have been financially successful and are facing increased problems in their country when it's time to date a man. 
Most of the time they have been in contact somehow with foreigners already. They feel very comfortable to talk with them about their personal life (gravitating around business), something they are unlikely to do with men of their city. They like to have another outlook, and they have already understood that perspectives include ZAPADIE CTRANIE
 
traduction: Western countries offer some perspectives
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 27, 2022, 12:40:21 PM
So I have created some materials on Insta and ready to go. 
Ready to go means ready to return. 
Which will happen fast. 
 
So I have switched off my profile for the moment.
And would be curious to watch the effects on this new strategy. But I do know that you need months, at least, to have a real feedback of such new direction. 


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 27, 2022, 12:52:59 PM
Anyway,I have two things to do in the future.
I had a prospect of the previous travel but it didn't go to the expected direction.
It's possible that I got a LSE (low self esteem) woman extraverted specy.
Who, accordingly to the rules of the game, are not suitable for a long term or middle term relationship.
She didn't have the expected behavior of a Slavic woman when I proposed her to return and spend time together. But for sure you cannot put all women in the same box.So her country was not the prime destination of my next move, however, I could drop her a visit as it's close from where I go. 
So I have cut off my worrying emotions (disproportionated to the time we spent together) but decided to retry because
she is among one of the THREE women my heart really started to beat after the first minute since 2009.
But now I'm setting up a new frame to explore more. Because you can make any future if you don't restore the communication. 
It's when you have killed everything in you and don't expect anything that something could happen.
   
The trip will let me known.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 27, 2022, 01:04:27 PM
The second thing is I am in touch with my ex from Kiev and she was amazing in the bed. I miss this time.
I suppose making her traveling to my home is possible. 
Wartime is not kind in Ukraine. 
And she liked me. 
 
The fact that after a while a Western woman is restarting answering you after a relationship is not necessary a sign that she wants to restart a relationship.
The fact that after a while a Slavic woman is restarting answering you after a relationship is most of the time a sign that she wants to restart a relationship.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 29, 2022, 04:34:05 PM
Things are  in order and soon ready to start.
I finally complete enough information on Insta.
This application is shit. I would have fired off the whole IT team from the beginning. 
It's a PIA to deal with.
 
But it's done.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 29, 2022, 04:48:37 PM
So I had to make a plan. There is a woman I want to meet again but I didn't let any new last 4 weeks and she didn't also communicate.
Why? Because after one week I realized that our communication was in disbalance so I had to slow down mine in frequency and in volume. Because if only one works in the relationship the other becomes the prize, and that ends very bad. 
And then here we are. No communication anymore.   
 
So you could consider to come back in her city and meet her again, and some other girls also. Additionaly I have an acquaintance in this city. 
But to be honest that's finally not the plan. I don't want to rush after her because simply it will put me in a bad frame. 
 
So the plan is to land in another city, spend one week and from there I could in four hours join the second city.
 
I also  want to test the water by sending her a message in advance and see what her reaction could be.
So it will let me more room, less pressure. If nothing good comes from her, I can simply stay in the first city. More comfortable, less hassle. And just enjoy my life. 
 
You need to decide what should come first, and I don't want to run like a puppy in her city even if it's important for me to watch if this door should be considered as opened or closed. A plan, even if it's a bad plan in the end, is always better than no plan at all.
In such situation always have a plan. Additionnaly you could find very good prospects in city number 1. That could have very good effects 1/ you forget miss other city 2/ if you decide to meet her anyway you are in the position H2G, not her. Always better when a woman has to chase you or if she feels that you are not crawling at all for her.
Title: Puppy dog curse
Post by: ML on November 30, 2022, 08:14:02 AM
I realized that our communication was in disbalance so I had to slow down mine in frequency and in volume.
Because if only one works in the relationship the other becomes the prize, and that ends very bad. 
I don't want to rush after her because simply it will put me in a bad frame. 
You need to decide what should come first, and I don't want to run like a puppy . . . .
Always better when a woman has to chase you or if she feels that you are not crawling for her.

All very good advice Pat, and should be followed by both men and women.

I have always been overly attracted to Pussy since my early teens.

I could easily have become a puppy dog to several girls/women and made a complete fool of, but I was saved from such a fate every time by circumstances not controlled by myself.

Ultimately the saving factor was my getting married very young to a good woman.

After my divorce from this woman (she was still a good woman, but just no longer a good wife for me), I was saved from the puppy dog curse by fact that there was so much Pussy available to me that I didn't have to chase it.
Title: Re: Puppy dog curse
Post by: Patagonie on November 30, 2022, 12:27:21 PM
All very good advice Pat, and should be followed by both men and women.

I have always been overly attracted to Pussy since my early teens.

I could easily have become a puppy dog to several girls/women and made a complete fool of, but I was saved from such a fate every time by circumstances not controlled by myself.

Ultimately the saving factor was my getting married very young to a good woman.

After my divorce from this woman (she was still a good woman, but just no longer a good wife for me), I was saved from the puppy dog curse by fact that there was so much Pussy available to me that I didn't have to chase it.

Thank you ML for your post. Good that women chased you. That's even better.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 30, 2022, 12:27:46 PM
PING
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 30, 2022, 12:31:02 PM
Ping means "a woman has answered you in a manner that shows a sign of interest".

I am just following the plan.
sent a message to the lady of City 2.
And she answered in the (two) minute(s).
   
What has she written? :P
Don't know
 8)
Why?   
Because I didn't open the messages box.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 30, 2022, 12:33:42 PM
Let say that I am too busy, in women language. 
     
It means that I am sorting out the priorities. That's the language.

Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 30, 2022, 02:46:18 PM
The game is ON 
Two messages, 
technically:
 
1/ Compliance (IOI), time interval after my message: two minutes
2/ Personal question (IOI), time interval after my message: three minutes   
But I still didn't answer.  :P   
I already know what EXACTLY what I am going to answer.
Cocky and funny.  >:D >:D >:D   
I normally don't play an European game on a FSU women, but for what I have analyzed, she is NOT standard, at least a standard FSU.  :popcorn: So I have to try differently.  :P

That's the beauty of real social dynamics, try, redo, change, creativity. And all of this is under your scope. Many things come under your own creativity.
I always try to questioning myself when something hurts and don't hesitate to come back to the book or discuss this issue with people owning at least a 9/10 skill in social dynamics.

 


Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 30, 2022, 02:58:16 PM
So guys,
We are dealing here with a HB9 class who can pick up any guy younger than her of 20 years.
She knows the rodeo.
You'd better to own a ranch. 
 
Now you have two type of women. 
That's not me who explain this.
I think it's Carl Jung or Heymans-Le-Senne
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 30, 2022, 03:05:45 PM
Primary or secondary. 
All is about the duration of the emotional resonance.
To explain it briefly:

So first the first ones emotions are very intense but don't last for so long. 
For the second the emotions don't seem to be really there if you are a bystander but they rise on the way. 
 
When you manage long distance relationships that's probably of prime importance because they will be a lot of stop and go during a real mid or long term relationship.   
So you can meet a woman and it looks like a dreadnought all in flames but two weeks after she barely talks to you.
On the other hand you have some woman who are like a little cold and the pace looks like to be slow but the attraction is stronger as the time passing by.
   
My ex wife was and I are from the secondary type of.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on November 30, 2022, 03:15:53 PM
I do not know what kind of emotional resonance this lady owns.
 
But I do know that my first crush in 2009 I met in Kiev was of the first type. Primary.
In reality it looked like if you were repairing a car, all was fine tuned and two weeks after you have everything to redo.
It was impossible to fix her emotionally.Of course it comes also along the fact that if someone don't want to settle down (it's a question of orbite between two people, if the two orbite's orbiters never cross each other no way that something good will end...) no long term relationship is possible.
That was also true, for sure.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 01, 2022, 08:27:38 AM
The most difficult: calibration.It depends on the woman and it depends on circumstances.
 
Every time.
 
No automatic pilot.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: 2tallbill on December 02, 2022, 04:48:26 PM
Cocky and funny.  >:D >:D >:D   
I always try to questioning myself when something hurts and don't hesitate to come back to the book or discuss this issue with people owning at least a 9/10 skill in social dynamics.

I own Cocky funny it's not a strategy for me, it's who I am.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 03, 2022, 02:21:59 PM
I own Cocky funny it's not a strategy for me, it's who I am.

Happy to read your posts, definitively bro. 
Not everyone got back from where you were.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 03, 2022, 04:11:53 PM
In NLP the VAKOG system allows you to insist on one of the letter of the "V A K O G" to deliver your message to the woman you aim for with maximum efficiency.
 
I was just sending very short messages to keep some momentum with the woman I am soon gonna to meet. To keep all light.
And how to say, for the last 4 days I started to worry because it was like a "stalling" or "flat" communication.
Messages written were referring to the V of VAKOG. Maybe not exactly what she likes.
 
I decided to switch to the A, auditory. Outstanding results.
 You could want to keep everything light because you are dating other women so you don't want anything too much emotional, you don't want too much "pathos".
 
But if you are aiming to do a VO (even if your VO was preceded by WM) it's probably better to raise the tension in her pantie (you should remember that I have already met her and the attraction was mutual, I will not detail the IOIs).So do it differently.
 
And I do know that I have some power with my voice.
But the best to come will be the meeting.
Because I will switch to the K. Kino 
In fact I always have one screenshot of the VAKOG diagram with the associate eyes mouvement in my phone.
 Yes you could know the main "VAKOG" by just watching people talking to you. So if I have a doubt I go to the toilets and look at the schema.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: ML on December 03, 2022, 04:24:11 PM
. . . raise the tension in her pantie . . .

Too much tension and something will break.

Best to check the tensile strengh. 

From Engineering handbook:  "Tensile strength is the maximum tensile stress beyond which a material fails and breaks.  Tensile strength can be measured using either dry or wet sutures."

Pat, I suggest you use the wet measure.
Title: Re: Operation White Panther
Post by: Patagonie on December 03, 2022, 04:43:06 PM
Too much tension and something will break.

Best to check the tensile strengh. 

From Engineering handbook:  "Tensile strength is the maximum tensile stress beyond which a material fails and breaks.  Tensile strength can be measured using either dry or wet sutures."

Pat, I suggest you use the wet measure.


 :ROFL: