Religious Wars Kill More than any other - Ukrainian Church wins Autocephaly

[ML]

Ukrainian church wins independence battle against Moscow Patriarchate

http://112.international/article/ukrainian-church-wins-independence-battle-against-moscow-patriarchate-33144.html

Ukraine is dangerously close to a religious war

http://112.international/opinion/ukraine-is-dangerously-close-to-a-religious-war-33093.html

The Istanbul-based Synod presided by Bartholomew "revoked the legal power of the Synodic letter from 1686 which granted the Moscow Patriarch the right (…) to name Metropolitan Bishops of Kyiv."

Patriarch Bartholomew also annulled the excommunication of the Kyiv-based religious leader Filaret, who spearheaded the push to cut ties with Moscow. Filaret's rank of patriarch has been "canonically reinstated" in a move sure to anger Russia's Patriarch Kirill.

Responding the decision, a spokesman for Kirill said that Bartholomew's Constantinople Patriarchate "crossed a red line" and made "catastrophic decisions for the entire Orthodox world."

Speaking to Rossiya-24 TV channel, senior Moscow Patriarchate official Igor Yakmichuk said the Moscow-based church will decide on its countermeasures after a Synod meeting set for next Monday.

"The response will be very decisive and harsh, it will be adequate to the situation that had developed," he said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-church/ukraine-wins-approval-for-historic-split-from-russian-church-idUSKCN1ML2J6

[DaveNY]

Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew may be hurt more by this than any Ukrainian church officials. Turkey has been trying hard to get back in Moscow's good book and now Bartholomew has upset Turkey's efforts.

Don't know how much influence Bartholomew wields in Turkey, if Putin complains to Erdoğan Bartholomew may need all of his influence to protect himself and his people in Muslim dominated Turkey.

[msmob]

DaveNY

1/ you are a little 'late' with your 'news'

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=23192.msg493104#msg493104


2/ The Russian's have chosen to LEAVE the party - as they are 'upset' at the Orthodox Church siding with Ukraine ..

[DaveNY]

DaveNY

1/ you are a little 'late' with your 'news'

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=23192.msg493104#msg493104


2/ The Russian's have chosen to LEAVE the party - as they are 'upset' at the Orthodox Church siding with Ukraine ..

I was referring to the possible repercussions by the Turkish government trying to curry favor with Putin. Turkey is a Muslim majority country, reportedly well over 90% of the population are Muslim, most of the politicians are Muslims. This could lead to conflicts between the Turkish government and the Patriarchate of Constantinople. Perhaps threats to the personal safety of the church members.

[ML]

I was referring to the possible repercussions by the Turkish government trying to curry favor with Putin. Turkey is a Muslim majority country, reportedly well over 90% of the population are Muslim, most of the politicians are Muslims. This could lead to conflicts between the Turkish government and the Patriarchate of Constantinople. Perhaps threats to the personal safety of the church members.

What bad could possibly happen to any person in Turkey ???

[msmob]

Quite...  Dave's 'reasoning' is bizarre ...absolutely not an issue ...

This is FAR more about Kremlin politics meaning the Russian Orthodox felt they had to split ... over support for Kyiv

[DaveNY]

Quite...  Dave's 'reasoning' is bizarre ...absolutely not an issue ...

This is FAR more about Kremlin politics meaning the Russian Orthodox felt they had to split ... over support for Kyiv

It's "absolutely not an issue"? Suggest you read the articles linked to. Page 2 of first article is of particular interest. Turkey has a long history of suppressing religious freedom especially when that religion isn't Islam.

Turkey is a Tier 2 listed country according to the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom. Give the 2nd link a read.

http://www.osce.org/odihr/340691?download=true

http://www.uscirf.gov/sites/default/files/Tier2_TURKEY.pdf

[msmob]

DaveNY

1/ I read your article


and


2/ It changes nought...  I do not think you have grasped who has decided to split and why ..

In the meantime, Turkey and Russia ( and Iran) seem quite happy to take advantage of your nation's increasing isolationist policies to carve up Syria as they wish

The  Kremlin and RU Orthodox Church have the problem..you just don't get it ..

[DaveNY]

DaveNY

1/ I read your article


and


2/ It changes nought...  I do not think you have grasped who has decided to split and why ..

In the meantime, Turkey and Russia ( and Iran) seem quite happy to take advantage of your nation's increasing isolationist policies to carve up Syria as they wish

The  Kremlin and RU Orthodox Church have the problem..you just don't get it ..

Somehow you have more expertise than groups of people with doctorates and decades of experience in the field?

I've been lurking on RUA and you seem a lot like a guy on that forum with the handle andrewfi. He makes out like an expert in fields ranging from science to economics to international relations and others too numerous to mention. There really doesn't seem to be a field he isn't an expert on. Are you two related?

[msmob]

Somehow you have more expertise than groups of people with doctorates and decades of experience in the field?

Given some of the daft things some so-called 'experts / advisers' write - I'm quite sure many of us could do better ... 

I've been lurking on RUA and you seem a lot like a guy on that forum with the handle andrewfi.

Seeing that contributor relies on protection from the forum's owner from my pointing out his serial howler's ...  his latest being that many Russian Oligarch's didn't get rich on buying up 'privatisation certificates'

I'd rate you and he alongside each other in your powers of observation / deduction abilities

[ML]

DaveNY

I do not think you have grasped who has decided to split and why ..

The  Kremlin and RU Orthodox Church have the problem..you just don't get it ..

I disagree with these statements.
Dave is one of the best thinkers here.
And, he is also a near perfect gentleman, never resorting to name calling and the like.

[msmob]

I disagree with these statements.
Dave is one of the best thinkers here.
And, he is also a near perfect gentleman, never resorting to name calling and the like.

Dave - like you - has some 'interesting viewpoints' which *I* strongly disagree with and neither of you have the luxury of discussing the rift with a RU Orthodox priest ...

[PeterWarrick9]

I don't think it's fair to claim religion causes war.

No religion, at least among the "Big 3", teaches that war is a good thing; what happens is the followers of that religion twist the teachings to fuel their hatred.