lose the beard
I would agree with Krimster, lose the facial hair. Most RW seem to consider that a big turnoff.
BillyB's advice assumes there's no emotion attached
Yes, I mentioned the facial hair in another thread...
As far as it irritating a woman’s skin, that is a universal issue, not just with FSU women, yet some women prefer it anyway.
As previously started, I have had two girlfriends who strongly preferred no facial hair. I shaved for the first one and she said “Don’t ever do that again”. She thought I went from “very attractive” to “homely” because of my genetic double chin.
When my Polish gf complained about my facial hair, I showed her a picture of myself clean shaven. She immediately decided that she would deal with her facial rash from kissing than to see me looking ugly without my beard.
In my experience it’s like this: with a beard, fewer women want to date me, but there are still many attractive women in the mix.
Without a beard, more women want to date me, but very few of them are attractive because I look so damned ugly.
I know looks aren’t everything. I have dated women with great personalities all along the attractiveness spectrum. I would rather date a beautiful woman with a good personality than a plain women with a good personality.
Also, shaving irritates my skin and gives me a rash and skin problems. When I was in the army, I had to deal with skin irritation and acne the entire time. Now I am free from those issues. I guess if a woman can’t understand and accept me for who I am, I don’t need her.
Yes, I mentioned the facial hair in another thread...
As far as it irritating a woman’s skin, that is a universal issue, not just with FSU women, yet some women prefer it anyway.
As previously started, I have had two girlfriends who strongly preferred no facial hair. I shaved for the first one and she said “Don’t ever do that again”. She thought I went from “very attractive” to “homely” because of my genetic double chin.
When my Polish gf complained about my facial hair, I showed her a picture of myself clean shaven. She immediately decided that she would deal with her facial rash from kissing than to see me looking ugly without my beard.
In my experience it’s like this: with a beard, fewer women want to date me, but there are still many attractive women in the mix.
Without a beard, more women want to date me, but very few of them are attractive because I look so damned ugly.
I know looks aren’t everything. I have dated women with great personalities all along the attractiveness spectrum. I would rather date a beautiful woman with a good personality than a plain women with a good personality.
Also, shaving irritates my skin and gives me a rash and skin problems. When I was in the army, I had to deal with skin irritation and acne the entire time. Now I am free from those issues. I guess if a woman can’t understand and accept me for who I am, I don’t need her.
I really wish there was a way to mitigate the risk of just meeting one, but my experience is that
there is no way to 100% predict what the chemistry will be like in person.
Any perspective on this is appreciated.
it sounds so pragmatic...But if i had the same problem..I d choose only one man, the best one to
meet him. But you have many coctacts of other ladies. So if something will be wrong, no any
chemistry...You can go to spontaneous date with someone else
lose the attitude of "my way or the highway" with Russian women
100% it'll be the highway
learn to compromise and negotiate
be a sympathetic empathetic person and LISTEN
and good luck
Honesty is your best friend. Your 'come back' post implied you're a 'seasoned' social dude, so why be undecided now?
WMVM is suited for guys who knows and understand their way around women and how to properly relate socially. It should be instinctual. If you're not comfortable with yourself and lack confidence in handling pressure situation, I would suggest not going this route as you'll only resort to 'lying' (yes, anything short of 'honesty' IS lying).
IMHO, a) You cannot make the right choice, if you never have choices to make it from; b) A WMVM is just a WOVO waiting to happen; c) You cannot lose what you never had; d) Never abandon your wits and instincts.; e) Honesty is the seed to your confidence and attitude. Void of such, the loss of both.
I never wasted my time with the 'getting to know' stage prior to the trip. You have no idea (nor do the women with you) what or how things will be when you meet in person. IMO, this can take place after...
so a guy whose pic has him sporting facial hair, asks UW, "Do you like guys with beards"
i'll make a fake profile pic of a guy covered in 3rd degree facial burns, and say "ladies you like facial mutilation"
they will all say
DA! Eta Cressiva!
all up to you, but I've had to learn how to make lots of sacrifices "for the cause"
don't see why your beard seems so sacred to you, but hey, to each their own
as I've tried to explain
you need to carefully form your "brand" image
I honestly hope you're not presenting them with your avatar here?
dude,
calm the hell down
jeezus
tryin to explain to ya bro
the simple logic
that girls see your pic
they won't be dissing your appearance
but what about the ones who didn't write you
cuz THEY don't dig beards, ok...
So, the women have spoken! The beard stays!
You make some good points....
To answer your initial question on why am undecided.... Over the past few years, I have become pretty proficient at domestic online dating. I saw dating kind of like a sales pipeline. Let's say I would message 50 girls. 20 would respond. Of those, I would get 10 phone numbers. I would ask some of them out and maybe get two dates. I did this on a rolling basis and would have 1-3 dates a week. If I wanted to pursue something with someone I dated, I would throw everyone out and focus on her. If/when things didn't work out, I would start over.... lather, rinse repeat...
I'm trying to see how I can leverage a "system" that I am proficient at as I approach this. The big difference is I am now planning around a longer trip instead of just a weekend with 2-3 dates. I can emotionally manage being "flirty" and calling/texting 3-4 girls at once without negative consequences. The thing is that in the US, everyone openly knows that your date for next Friday is still talking to other people. I have been on the phone with a girl planning our date and can see that she is online on the dating site we met on (she can also see I am online) and nobody seems to care (until you are actually dating each other, anyway).
I don't want to commit to a WOVO, but don't want to look like I'm a player either. I appreciate everyone's input and advice. I am fine tuning my approach each day. When I come back from Ukraine, I'll be sure to let everyone know how it went.
2002-2003 was before Skype/Facebook/most Social media..
For who? You, maybe
Skype - I was using it in October 2003 - but my issue was persuading FSU ladies to use it ... Many ( including my then to be Wife) thought it was an American spy software ..I worked with really techie folk who go me an invite to a new thing called Gmail in April 2004
Facebook: Met an American Student on a bus out of C.London to Gatwick Airport - who asked if he could use my Brand New Nokia N92 mobile phone - to use something called Facebook - Autumn ( Fall) 2006 - it already had 6 million users by the end of 2005 !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Facebook (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Facebook)
You were even more 'behind the times' than me ;)
When we were just talking on the phone (back in 2000) I told mr. Pedro. If you are coming to Moscow with a plan to meet a few girls, you are not meeting me. Its my game and my rules too. There are things that I could compromise on, and this is not one of them. Advise - spend more time on Whatsup or Skype. Listen and Observe. Discuss everything. Thye more things you discuss the faster you will understand which one of them is a better match than others.
Donna_Pedro if FSU women insist that foreigners that come to meet them, meet only them and no other women, does that mean that the FSUW are not dating any local guys? Somehow I doubt it.
I do agree that there should be communication between both parties. However, I seriously doubt FSUW are not dating local men just because they have communicated with a foreigner and he is visiting.
For who? You, maybe
Skype - I was using it in October 2003 - but my issue was persuading FSU ladies to use it ... Many ( including my then to be Wife) thought it was an American spy software ..I worked with really techie folk who go me an invite to a new thing called Gmail in April 2004
Facebook: Met an American Student on a bus out of C.London to Gatwick Airport - who asked if he could use my Brand New Nokia N92 mobile phone - to use something called Facebook - Autumn ( Fall) 2006 - it already had 6 million users by the end of 2005 !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Facebook (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Facebook)
You were even more 'behind the times' than me ;)
OY! Skype became available August 2003. Facebook was first launched 2004.
Sober up, man.
Read the very site you just posted. 2006 was when it became 'public'. Facebook was first launched 2004. ::)
OMG! And we were still using those damn call cards...
LMAO! Yes...there were like 10,000 numbers you needed to dial, plus the country and city codes before even dialing the actual numbers. From my end, it was $10.00 for 5 minutes. I don't know how much it cost the ladies from Russia. I'm sure pricier.
There were 2 gals from Moscow and one from Vladivostok that were calling me in L.A. before my first trip. That was late April 2003 (when I met you, Gator and his then-ex in Moscow).
Over the past few years, I have become pretty proficient at domestic online dating. I saw dating kind of like a sales pipeline. Let's say I would message 50 girls. 20 would respond. Of those, I would get 10 phone numbers. I would ask some of them out and maybe get two dates. I did this on a rolling basis and would have 1-3 dates a week. If I wanted to pursue something with someone I dated, I would throw everyone out and focus on her. If/when things didn't work out, I would start over.... lather, rinse repeat...
Advise - spend more time on Whatsup or Skype. Listen and Observe. Discuss everything. Thye more things you discuss the faster you will understand which one of them is a better match than others.
GQB are you old enough to remember trying to make a long distance phone call in the 60s? Pick up the phone a dial a long distance operator. A different operator from a local operator.
Then give her (the operators were always women) the number, the city, the country to be called. Then, if in a phone both, deposit the money. Often the amount you deposited did not agree with what was recorded, so add more. Of course you had to know how much it would cost before hand and have it ready in quarters. Try finding $5 or $10 dollars in quarters in short notice.
Then once the money is correctly deposited the operator says all lines are busy, a common occurrence is some locations, please try your call later. Then the phone doesn't return your quarters or not all of them.
The cards were a great improvement. Not perfect, but better than the alternative.
If you like/want your beard, just keep it. It may take some women off the table but not every woman is supposed to like you anyway.
Fathertime!
The premise
Do what you believe works for you. Do not COMPROMISE yourself and your belief. Be your own man!
When I got to the US, I remember those public phones. One time I deposited a dime for a call and never connected. I was so angry as it was my last dime and had to make a call. So I dialed the operator hoping she can make my connection. She said she can't do it and offered to send me a 'refund'. Silly me to agree for the refund, too. For a few days I actually waited for it in the mail, believe it or not! A different area code was, FWIW, a long distance call. Better have the stack of coins ready so you don't get cutoff.
:P
I guess technically it’s a WOVO trip, but I have level set personal expectations that I’ll be okay if it doesn’t work out. The girl is really cool and she knows she’s not the only girl in the world. She even told me, “You are a man and have needs. I understand if you are sleeping with different women while you are looking for your soulmate. Sex with those other women just needs to stop when you meet your future wife”
Again, thanks everyone for your help so far. I’m sure I will have a ton more questions over the next few weeks as I put this trip together.
and have her pick me up at the airport.Nah, be as independent as possible.
OY! Skype became available August 2003. Facebook was first launched 2004.
Sober up, man.
Nah, be as independent as possible.
Get a sim card at the airport, order an uber ride, and head into town. Book an apartment yourself, get used to navigating around the metro, where good restaurants are, where local grocery shops are, where to swap USD for UAH, etc. None of this is hard. If you need practical tips on logistics then ask.
And learn some Russian! Even a few phrases can come in handy. Alternatively pick up some Ukrainian but Russian is a safe bet.
I'm old fashioned but one can learn a lot on the phone. If a woman never answers the phone on Friday and Saturday nights, she may be a party girl. Sometimes I catch a lady in the bath and tell her I'll call later but almost always, the woman tells me she wants to talk to me now instead of later although she's fully nude. Women who likes a guy wants to talk to him and refuses to end the conversation. I don't talk a woman's ear off. I always end the conversation before they do to where they are wanting more. Sometimes I'll call when they are at work(not on purpose), around friends and family and I'll know where I stand with them if they pick up the phone in those environments.
Quality communication prior to a visit isn't as good as a face to face meeting but it can help determine interest and if a visit to a girl should even happen.
Speaking of old school communication, I too have used phone cards. Sometimes the quality is crappy. I once had a four way call with a girl and a couple other people in another country as the lines crossed. I also did snail mail. I got a brochure of FSU women in the mail and so I sent out some postal letters. Surprisingly, after a month and a half, I got a letter back from a girl. Unfortunately for her things with me were moving light speed with other girls on email.
She even told me, “You are a man and have needs. I understand if you are sleeping with different women while you are looking for your soulmate. Sex with those other women just needs to stop when you meet your future wife”
Is it just me, or is BillyB's writing style confusing ..?
Sounds good. I was going to get a sim ahead of time, but it’s nice to know I can get one at the airport. Where are good places to swap money? Any specific areas you recommend looking for an apartment? I was going to just use airbnbIf you stay near or on Kreshchatyk (which I'd recommend if first time to Kyiv) there are plenty of places to exchange cash, better rates than at the airport. AirBnB should be fine.
Having not bought a UA sim for some time - I'm just wondering is is not better to catch the new rail service into town and buy a sim where the locals, do ?Sim cards are dirt cheap. Unless you intend to visit regularly it's not worth the hassle, just buy at the airport. I went with KyivStar, it's around 10USD for the sim and 10USD for the month (unlimited data).
the mice NEVER have anything nice to say about the cat...
m'man! take a good look at the people posting here
you don't think there have been those who are EXACTLY how you described
"idiots and doomed to failure"
my extra super special advice to them is " tok tok time to wake up"
The last couple of months before coming to Moscow Mr. Pedro kept me on the phone practically all the time I was not asleep, Forget about seeing anybody else, I had to completely stop any social contacts but him - anybody who called me had a busy signal. If he went anywhere, I got a photo report in email.What did you threaten him with, if he did not ;D?
my daily routine now includes standing guard at my daughter's school with other parents
to sacrifice ourselves should a school shooter suddenly appear
we hope our sacrifice outside the school building would give enough time to block their entry
Okay, so I just got back in the game and I have been talking with a handful of women on WhatsApp. This is feeling just like online dating in the US. I haven’t written any structured emails (as in the past). It’s all a bunch of short text conversations and phone calls.
I will be in Amsterdam for business for 10 weeks starting in January, so I thought I would fly into Kiev (from Chicago) a week or two early, then go to Amsterdam, then spend a week in Kiev before going home.
When I mentioned flying out to meet one girl, she freaked out and thought I was moving too fast. She calmed down when I told her I was flying to Europe anyway, and was just making a stop in Ukraine to meet her. However, it got me thinking... I don’t know if I am ready to put all my eggs in one basket with one girl.
The problem is with the way I have been communicating daily with these girls. They text at any given time asking “watcha doing?” I have a lot of flexibility with my business, so I often answer when I am not busy. I actually enjoy the “interruption”.
So the problem is that I have been very transparent with everyone I talk to. I don’t advertise that I am talking to more than one girl, but they don’t ask. I can’t claim to be traveling to Ukraine “on business” with no further explanation. They will ask a lot of specific questions (as these curious girls tend to do) and I don’t want to tell some elaborate lie. I also don’t want to say “none of your business”, because that is not in my nature and it would raise a red flag because I am otherwise transparent.
I personally wouldn’t want to visit with a woman if I knew she was in a trip visiting a bunch of other guys, but visiting one just feels too high risk. I have dated online quite a bit in the US and more than once I have felt 100% sure I found a match made in heaven by talking and video chatting extensively before meeting, only to be disappointed when we actually met.
I really wish there was a way to mitigate the risk of just meeting one, but my experience is that there is no way to 100% predict what the chemistry will be like in person.
Any perspective on this is appreciated.
brownbeard99 (http://it's my understanding that some women that are EM or AFA or other brides sites are doing it just for fun. They really don't expect to meet anyone.) How true it is and what percentage are on the sites for fun I don't know.
I've also been told that few men who join such sites will ever get on a plane and go to the FSU. So many women may hear this and figure they'll have a little fun and join since most sites don't charge women a fee.
What did you threaten him with, if he did not ;D ?
Tell every girl you plan to visit that you're visiting them as a friend and that you're open to a serious relationship if you find the right woman. Don't make a commitment to anybody prior to a visit and since you don't have a commitment to anybody you shouldn't feel guilty dating multiple girls the same time.
When a girl asks if you're visiting any other girls on the trip, you tell them you have no girlfriend and you don't like to talk about other girls. Tell her you want to focus on only her at the moment. Even if a girl asks about your ex's tell them you don't talk about past women. The past is the past. If other girls are on your mind, many ladies will hold it against you that your mind is on another girl, not them. When they ask you tough questions, if you hesitate or look nervous, they'll think something is wrong with you and/or you're lying. If you're confident in your answers and act like you're doing nothing wrong, they'll accept it. Although many women want a man to be only theirs, they also want to know their man is in demand so tactfully giving them the impression other girls like you may make them work harder for you.
There were times I visited ladies and it didn't seem like a good match, I'd then go get dates off local dating sites. Some girls ask me why I visited their city. I tell them the truth. I came to their city to find love and didn't find it yet. Never had a problem with that answer.
I've had girls on the first date tell me they only date one man at a time and they require their man to date only them and if I want to date them again, I have to agree to it. I then ask the girl if they are ready to dedicate their life to me and only me. They always reply "no". I tell them since I have no commitment you, we're only friends and are free to date whoever we want. I tell them I know they are getting asked out a lot and they are free to date whoever they want and choose the best guy, it's their right and I'm not jealous. Except for one time, I always got a second date.
Don't be afraid to hurt people's feelings because most of those girls will drop you like a hot potato when a better man comes along. Like you, they are probably jockeying for the best mate. You have the right to find the best girl in your life and when you do, you will forget about all others.
A lot of men don't give themselves choices. Without a selection to choose from, they can't choose the best woman out of the lot. By visiting multiple women, you've increased your chances in finding a winner. Keep in mind, it's possible none of the girls you are visiting this will be a good match and you may need to do more searching.
Although you mentioned you're not doing emails like you did in the past, you can still use the tool to see how motivated some of the girls are to please you. Tell them you want to share your life in pictures and ask for their email. If they like you, they won't refuse your request. Send them the photos but don't request any of theirs. You'll find some girls, without asking, will send you a slug of photos of their life. You can get an understanding who is more "into you" over the others and who seems family orientated to the point you'll be proud to take home to mamma.
Tried WM once - Never again
BillyB's advice assumes there's no emotion attached - there is .. Let's be honest - we don't date to find friends .
Many women will simply not meet you - if they know you are on a VM trip
You may meet one with whom you click and you're over-running and the next date is calling - need that stress ?
Each to his own ;)
The last couple of months before coming to Moscow Mr. Pedro kept me on the phone practically all the time I was not asleep, Forget about seeing anybody else, I had to completely stop any social contacts but him - anybody who called me had a busy signal. If he went anywhere, I got a photo report in email.
Some people can talk endlessly for hours. I'm not one of those people. On some subjects I can talk a fair while but people who can talk endlessly for hours has always made me curious about how they manage it. It just seems like a strange phenomena to my mind.
Okay, so I am basing a lot of my approach based on my domestic online dating experience, but I sometimes still struggle with what things are different and what things are the same.
In the US, I have found that you have to keep communicating with a girl at least every 2-3 days or they will forget about you or assume you did. A few times, I made the mistake of asking a girl out on Sunday or Monday for the next Friday or Saturday. I wouldn't talk to them again until the day of the date (I'm a busy guy and I figured, "What's the point? I already secured the date"), only to have them cancel or tell me they thought I lost interest. Anyway, I would always have to manage perceptions and find the balance between looking needy and looking disinterested.
When I first started messaging FSU women, If I went a day without messaging them, many of them would send me a message saying "I guess you aren't interested." I think having to talk every day is pretty excessive, especially in the beginning, but "when in Rome" I guess. Is this the norm out there? I didn't care about the ones I lost, but if I find someone I really like, I don't want to screw it up.
I also ask this because this girl I have been talking to video chats with me sometimes and makes plans to talk every day, but has been cancelling them. My gut says to drop her like a bad habit... I wouldn't tolerate this with an American girl.. are Ukrainian women typically flaky like this? I know women who will do this kind of thing as a game to test you to see how far they can push you. These kinds of games are exhausting....
are Ukrainian women typically flaky like this?
f I'm out running errands she thinks nothing of texting me to pick up other stuff or what I want for dinner or to get the car filled with gas because she has to go out early in the morning.
But if she doesn't know exactly where you are; how does she know where to send the text ?
When I first started messaging FSU women, If I went a day without messaging them, many of them would send me a message saying "I guess you aren't interested." I think having to talk every day is pretty excessive, especially in the beginning, but "when in Rome" I guess. Is this the norm out there? I didn't care about the ones I lost, but if I find someone I really like, I don't want to screw it up.
this girl I have been talking to video chats with me sometimes and makes plans to talk every day, but has been cancelling them.
The difference is that Billy knows how to talk to FSW and what to say.
These kinds of games are exhausting....
Yes, most Ukrainian women are flaky;
Okay, so I am basing a lot of my approach based on my domestic online dating experience, but I sometimes still struggle with what things are different and what things are the same.
In the US, I have found that you have to keep communicating with a girl at least every 2-3 days or they will forget about you or assume you did. A few times, I made the mistake of asking a girl out on Sunday or Monday for the next Friday or Saturday. I wouldn't talk to them again until the day of the date (I'm a busy guy and I figured, "What's the point? I already secured the date"), only to have them cancel or tell me they thought I lost interest. Anyway, I would always have to manage perceptions and find the balance between looking needy and looking disinterested.
When I first started messaging FSU women, If I went a day without messaging them, many of them would send me a message saying "I guess you aren't interested." I think having to talk every day is pretty excessive, especially in the beginning, but "when in Rome" I guess. Is this the norm out there? I didn't care about the ones I lost, but if I find someone I really like, I don't want to screw it up.
I also ask this because this girl I have been talking to video chats with me sometimes and makes plans to talk every day, but has been cancelling them. My gut says to drop her like a bad habit... I wouldn't tolerate this with an American girl.. are Ukrainian women typically flaky like this? I know women who will do this kind of thing as a game to test you to see how far they can push you. These kinds of games are exhausting....
That's what he tells us ;) .... :rolleyes:
Seriously, whether you're Mr Smooth talkin' or Netvous Ned - WMVM has the potential to go tits up
Cyprus has a population closer to a million, now - but this is a true story...
Back in 2003, two ethnic RU ladies were lying on the beach, chatted as ladies do and realised that they were about to be visited on a 'VO' by an American Gentleman
He had told each of them he was 'staying for a week' - a week apart.. He was arriving in three days..
They conspired to met him at the airport, together and I found out about their plan and persuaded them to 'confront' the bloke, online
He cancelled his 'trips' - but then he may never have arrived ?..
The moral of the story is .. surely clear ?
Right, Trechie... are you going to wise up and video-chat, first - or are you still a fan of 'blind dates' ?
And they are all desperate by definition. There is war there! Women want out ASAP! They dont care how many of them you are going to see in one trip as long as you take one of them out of that mess.
Okay, so I am basing a lot of my approach based on my domestic online dating experience, but I sometimes still struggle with what things are different and what things are the same.
In the US, I have found that you have to keep communicating with a girl at least every 2-3 days or they will forget about you or assume you did. A few times, I made the mistake of asking a girl out on Sunday or Monday for the next Friday or Saturday. I wouldn't talk to them again until the day of the date (I'm a busy guy and I figured, "What's the point? I already secured the date"), only to have them cancel or tell me they thought I lost interest. Anyway, I would always have to manage perceptions and find the balance between looking needy and looking disinterested.
When I first started messaging FSU women, If I went a day without messaging them, many of them would send me a message saying "I guess you aren't interested." I think having to talk every day is pretty excessive, especially in the beginning, but "when in Rome" I guess. Is this the norm out there? I didn't care about the ones I lost, but if I find someone I really like, I don't want to screw it up.
I also ask this because this girl I have been talking to video chats with me sometimes and makes plans to talk every day, but has been cancelling them. My gut says to drop her like a bad habit... I wouldn't tolerate this with an American girl.. are Ukrainian women typically flaky like this? I know women who will do this kind of thing as a game to test you to see how far they can push you. These kinds of games are exhausting....
And they are all desperate by defibition. THere is war there! Women want out ASAP! They dont care how many of them you are going to see in one trip as long as you take one of them out of that mess.Many, but not all.
BB,
My search started similarly to yours. I met several from a dating site, and started communicating to them via Whatsapp/Skype.
The 2 women I messaged on Skype were from Russia. I maintained communication via email, and chatted when they were available. Due to their work schedule, the time difference, and both were single moms, I only skyped with them twice a week.
There were 5 women or so I messaged on Whatsapp. Two were...flaky. One woman, who I was initially interested in, would message often in a day, then disappear for a while. Two times I thought she wasn't interested, only to get a message from her out of the blue.
Another lady on Whatsapp was difficult to communicate with. Mostly one word responses, but she did keep in regular contact.
Only 2 women worked out in the end on Whatsapp. One in Russia, one in Ukraine. Initially the girl from Russia and I got along great: we messaged each other constantly and sent video and sound clips, and occasionally talked on video. I got a 3 year multi entry visitor's visa and made plans to meet her in St Pete, but after a month of chatting she became very jealous. Odd - we had not met yet... I told her it wasn't working out and cancelled the trip.
The second woman on Whatsapp: we started chatting casually, once every few days or so. Then we chatted more, and I flew to meet her on the 3rd month. I thought she was out of my league, and that perhaps she just wanted a casual fling. That's how I set my expectations - if it worked out, great, if it didn't, then I'd have a week+ vacation in a new country with a local guide. I found out later that she thought about the same - she didn't know if I was the "one" and treated it as a fun getaway with a foreign guy she liked.
Miraculously it worked out. By the end of the week I knew she was the one, and she thought the same. I know I lucked out, and that not everyone will have the same result. But if you know yourself, know what you want, and treat it casual until you discover it's serious, you should have a great time.
Oh, and how to visit many without lying? Well, it would not work with miss Whatsapp Russia, so I didn't pursue it. Miss Ukraine, on the other hand, knew that I was probably keeping in contact with other women. But without knowing me or falling for me, she kept things casual and just accepted me visiting her for a week. I guess it would be awkward if she developed strong feelings for me and I didn't, but then she wouldn't be the "one" and it's best to move on, yes?
The ladies I chatted with on Skype? I initially told them I was on a trip to Europe and wouldn't be available for a week, and they didn't push the matter. After I was sure of Miss Ukraine, I messaged them both and told them I met someone that I believed was my match. They both graciously wished me good luck with the relationship.
That's the problem of the 'Visit One' method, you WILL get tied into lengthy in depth communication before you even see each other in person physically on a visit.
That's why I'm going to switch to a 'Visit Many' strategy for my next attempt.
None of the women I have met in Ukraine seemed desperate to get out. Not so much so that they would commit themselves being with any guy to get out. One was even from Mariupol near the front line, she seemed in no hurry.
People on here tell me all the time that these FSW (Ukrainian girls, etc) don't need saving. Surprises me as the state their country is in - economy, civil conflict in the eastern Ukraine I would not know it. I hear there is some sort of unsteady cease fire there at the moment but if it all blew up like when it first started then perhaps these girls wouldn't think twice of turning away a WM into him or not, of course after they are saved they may see things differently.
None of the women I have met in Ukraine seemed desperate to get out.
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quackslike a duck, then it probably is a duck. The country is at war. Full blown war with temporary cease fire periods and "people tell you these girls dont need saving?" PLease think logically.
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"seemed" is a key word here.
Some people can talk endlessly for hours. I'm not one of those people. On some subjects I can talk a fair while but people who can talk endlessly for hours has always made me curious about how they manage it. It just seems like a strange phenomena to my mind.
Donna, please stop with this nonsense. Have you been to Ukraine recently?
Think it makes sense that a fair amount are out for fun as some women will even meet
you on the hoof you have hardly corresponded to out there just out of interest/fun in
meeting a WM.
Not to say of course that there aren't any serious ones out there but I think a fair amount
do just do it for the fun of it without really realising the guy is serious and they are potentially
making a PIA of themselves for the guy.
You deny the fact of war or economic collapse in Ukrain?
I am just back from 2 months in Ukraine and Russia. It’s not the 1990’s. There will always be women who will trade their youth for the opportunity to move abroad. However, there are opportunities for Ukrainians (and Russians, for that matter) that don’t require a man as a passport. I see a lot of Ukrainian emigres in my city, often families. There a also significant numbers of temporary foreign workers, which is a path to citizenship.
Somebody is going to get that perfect girl. Why not you? Make sure she likes you as much as you like her. Girl #2 seems to really like you though. The other girl may seem better overall but girl #2 may try harder to make you happier. Girl #1 excuse she was ill may be true but if you're important to her, she should've went on the internet to let you know and not to worry. Wouldn't you do the same for her? As long as communications continue to go well with both girls, see them both.
You deny the fact of war or economic collapse in Ukrain?
please do not call the Russian soldiers in Eastern Ukraine separatists
Economic collapse: Inflation in Ukraine rose to 14% in 2014, skyrocketed to 48% in 2015, down to about 14% again in 2016, 2017. 2018 is projected at 11%. 1 USD was 8.25 UAH at the end of 2013. Now 1 USD is 28.17 UAH. Wopping 240% drop in value. Unemployment rate was about 6.5 % before 2014, peaked to almost 11% in 2015, and is now around 9.5%.
Economic situation is bad in Ukraine, and many blame the rebellion as well as government corruption. But not a collapse. I was in Kyiv at the UEFA Championship between Liverpool and Madrid. Roads were improved, the stadium looked nice (I didn't have tickets to the game). Tons of traffic as people were going to/from work.
As it happens I do have relatives in Ukraine too. When I call, all I hear is begging me to arrange a nice american guy to marry for their daughters and granddaughters. Does not matter what guy it is, as long as he is able and willing to get the girls out. So forgive me, if I am still inclined to trust my family more.
I hate to interrupt this fascinating discussion on war, but...
I have couple insights in my very limited online experience. I don’t see any women acting desperate. Maybe they are good at hiding it. I have initiated conversations with women and it goes well for awhile... but some loose interest after awhile and the conversation slowly dies off. I would think desperate women would be talking to 100 guys every day until one finally comes to rescue them.
My personal dilemma talking to two girls on an emotional level (yea its my fault and I shouldn’t have created this situation) is becoming difficult to manage. Only one knows that I am going there for sure later this month. She is the mature one who knows not to ask about other girls. I just told her I will be in town and want to spend a specific day with her. She was fine with that. I really like her, but I have a strong feeling her interest level is just high enough to meet me (her words are very convincing, but her actions speak otherwise). This is not enough to disqualify her.
I mentioned on the phone to the other girl about “possibly” visiting Ukraine later this month. She said she can only get only get a day or two off work, so I should wait until January. I told her that’s okay. I have some business contacts that I have never met in person with that I want to see, and that I want to explore the city by myself and I’m sure I can meet people and make Friends. I don’t need a babysitter. She immediately (joking) said, “Oh, yea... I’m sure you will make plenty of ‘friends’ while you are here.”
Since I talk every day with both girls, it would be impossible to go to Ukraine without them (eventually) knowing. I have probably created a situation where I have to choose between the two before I even go, but I don’t want to!
Lastly, I think hearing all these warnings about scammers and such has mad me a little too suspicious. The more shy girl would talk on the phone, but would never video chat. She was so resistant that I became very suspicious (also, I have been catfished in the US). We finally did video and I could tell she was so nervous and shy. It was painful for her! She wasn’t scamming me or anything... she just hates video.
You had the board (at least me) believe you're a 'seasoned' dater. You're not. Not even close.
Forget WMVM. You don't have the personality, presence of mind or wits about you to succeed doing that approach. Go WOVO. That'll be your best chance in doing this.
*****
An aside...
What happened to BillyB's post I quoted on reply # 109 @ 2:42.52 yesterday? I thought RWD doesn't 'delete' post/s?
Or men in the UK perhaps? :)
I see no reason why given a few visitations they can't find the right foreign guy and leave Ukraine.
She is the mature one who knows not to ask about other girls. I
One word - competition. And no, I am not going to help them out. There are way too many ukranian women around for my taste.
THats true. The girl knows that half a chance is better than no chance at all..
Btw, all this situations are RWG 101. There is a number of groups on FB led by women, who are teaching women how to properly handle long distance relationships. Not showing that you are very interested is an ABC. If you appear desperate you lose a lot of leverage. How do you show a man that you are not desperate? Do not cancel your plans or take time off work just because he came to visit. :P
Sorry, I have not read the 101 lately. I will go back and read it again. I would love to see one of these RW sites. This one girl does seem like she’s going by some sort of playbook. I wouldn’t be surprised if she is in one of these FB groups.
Thanks
The sites are in Russian. I translated a large part of it on another forum. You can go here
and find all sorts of advice for the ladies (in Russian)
http://www.elenasmodels.com/ru/
I’m sorry if you feel I have misled the board. I’m not sure what “seasoned” is.... in the past three years, I have dated roughly 50 women and have had sex with 20 of them... I have had a few of those relationships last about 3 months. Of course, I was also married twice and dated extensively before that. Maybe I’m not experienced by your standards, but I wouldn’t say I’m completely inexperienced.
You're personality and disposition, IMHO, is a good 'fit' as a WOVO.
One word - competition. And no, I am not going to help them out. There are way too many ukranian women around for my taste.
Point well taken! I agree with you on those points entirely. The only reasons I even think about WMVM is my desire for efficiency and the fact that I am risk averse (want to avoid wasting too much time and money) The thought of my only date bombing on day one when I am in Ukraine for a week kind of sucks... but there is much good advice on how to turn it into a WMVM on the spot.
The only reasons I even think about WMVM is my desire for efficiency and the fact that I am risk averse (want to avoid wasting too much time and money) The thought of my only date bombing on day one when I am in Ukraine for a week kind of sucks... but there is much good advice on how to turn it into a WMVM on the spot.
There are times when a guy wants to do a WMVM but then communicates with a woman and it's absolutely perfect and she's perfect. He doesn't want to lose her so he visits only her. That's alright. But if it doesn't work out, a guy can write to girls on Mamba.ru and get schedule dates within hours.
I noticed one of my posts in this thread is missing. The games continue. Somebody likes to delete my stuff here. I'm going to start posting in my signature line so it's untouchable...unless that person can get into members accounts.
BB, sorry about getting off topic a bit there.
I think what GQ meant was that the WMVM approach requires less focus on what the other person might think or feel and more about being confident and taking charge of the discussion if she asks about other women or your plans when you are not meeting her. If you feel awkward or nervous about mentioning other women, or simply saying you have other plans, then WOVO is more for you.
I'm mostly a WOVO guy. Actually, I guess WMVO guy? I kept communication with other women, while visiting the one. I told the other ladies I was away on a trip in Europe, and didn't communicate with the during the week I spent with Ms. T. If Ms. T didn't work out, I had plans or would make plans to visit the others, but not on the same trip.
I have played on mamba and badoo and have started a lot of conversations with quite a few attractive women. They remind me a lot of Tinder back home. The girls seem to lose interest when they find out I’m not in Ukraine right now. Some are like “Give me a call when you are in town”. It doesn’t seem too hard to get dates this way... although I suspect most of these girls are not marriage minded... but I guess it’s better than sitting in my apartment alone.
Mamba is geared for local dating. If you're in town, many FSU would love the opportunity to date a foreign man at least once in their life. Bride.ru advertises on Mamba and some girls who'd consider an international relations will sign up on Bride.ru for that purpose.So basically mamba girls are a combination of girls on eHarmony, Match, Tinder, and craigslist... I guess I can try and do a little pre-sorting ahead of time. I have never put too much hope in a Tinder date, but it can go well. I guess I shouldn’t put too much hope in mamba either. Thanks for the heads up.
Mamba has hookers, girls looking for a sponsor, girls who want a short term relationship, and girls who want marriage. Some girls are open to any of those type of relationships based on the guy and the moment. Since you're looking for a partner for life, you have to get into the heads of ladies you date to figure them out. Separate the wheat from the chaff. Just because a woman is looking for marriage now doesn't mean she's always been a family oriented woman. Men have reported some women at marriage agencies once worked in the commercial sex industry. You don't want a woman that has opened her legs for thousands of men, with many of those men coming from the worst elements of society.
So basically mamba girls are a combination of girls on eHarmony, Match, Tinder, and craigslist...
a guy can write to girls on Mamba.ru and get schedule dates within hours.
The games continue. Somebody likes to delete my stuff here. I'm going to start posting in my signature line so it's untouchable...unless that person can get into members accounts.
Only a fool and BillyB still think mamba.ru is a good place to search for a wifeNot to start a religious war but,
Not to start a religious war but,My response rate is not that bad on Mamba. I have had conversations with many women who speak English and tell me they are looking for a relationship... and I haven’t written tens of thousands of messages... perhaps a couple dozen.
Mamba is more for local dating. I read an article that only 8% of Russian women are interested in foreign men. So let's say 10% of profiles.
Of those you'll be lucky to have 1 in 5 speak English. Which brings down to 2% of profiles.
You can probably account for at least half the profiles for women not looking for serious relations or looking for a sponsor, or simply fake profiles. Down to 1%.
Then you'll have number of active users, let's be optimistic and say half. That's 0.5%.
Then if you're selective you may only get interest from 1 in 5 women to you write to. That's 0.1% of profiles, or one in every thousand.
(If you keep the beard you may drop to 1 in 10, or 0.01% of profiles - 1 in 10,000).
So yes you can find decent women on mamba but you'll likely experience a better response rate elsewhere.
Thank you, rwd123Of course, some members’ advice carries more weight than others. I don’t blindly listen to any one person. That would be foolish. I do appreciate the lively debate that offers multiple perspectives.
You put it better and with less exasperated emotion than I could.
I hope any newbie seeking advice will realise which poster knows what he is talking about.
2018 stating the obvious contest is now declared open... :clapping:
Wow. You believe your family. Your family has asked you for help, because they are desperate to leave their horrible and dangerous situation. And you are not going to help them out...because they are Ukrainian.
Я все понимаю
People romantically interested in each other can find important things to talk about especially
early on. If you want an empty headed arm trophy who won't spend any of your money then
why would you need to talk to a girl.
You want to skip a step but you can't. In order to find a good girl who is compatible you have
to talk to her.
My response rate is not that bad on Mamba.
Sorry, I have not read the 101 lately. I will go back and read it again. I would love to see one of these RW sites. This one girl does seem like she’s going by some sort of playbook. I wouldn’t be surprised if she is in one of these FB groups.
Thanks
This is indeed a basic rule of thumb. THese girls might not be rocket scientists, but they are mostly very street smart. See, none of you even suspects them of being desperate. But they are. Everybody in the situation like that would be desperate. And no, You can not see these RW FB groups. THey do not accept men. Thats the whole point of them - to be able to discuss things in private.
. . . aren't serious and only looking for sex.
Moby ridicules Mamba, the place he found his soon to be wife on, simply because he likes disagreeing with me.
But what if you are seriously looking for sex ??One word - mamba. :P
She previously told me she will know if she feels a strong enough connection within five hours.
Im giving her two days (if it is clear there is no chemistry on day one, I will cut her loose)
I feel a lot more pressure when there is so much involved (logistically) for a single date.
maybe Ill meet the right girl sooner rather than later.
Tear up your ticket and forget the whole FSU adventure. The MOB isn’t cut for guys like you. Wise words from an old member named ‘jb’.
;)
The girl they visit has a bad attitude and takes them shopping often.
The other savvy girl now takes the pole position for this trip. She offered to meet me at the airport and I agreed. She has been a little more available and will video chat and text me every day, but she still acts pretty “busy”.
Interesting.. one of my friends in Russia does it to me. We are not romantically involved obviousely. She talks a lot how she misses me not being there, but whenever I tell her I am coming to visit, she is busy all of a sudden, can not take a single day off work to hang out with me. The game is called "Dont think you are so important just because you show up from America". I like this game. I know the rules and I am good at playing. At the end my trip works out exactly as I wanted it to be - all of my friends show up at places I picked out of MY convinience and get my attention based on mutual interest: sometimes its a 1 hour lunch, or a shopping trip or even a trip to St.Peterburg overnight.My advise - even if you do not like head games, learn how to play this one.
This girl is like, “okay, thanks, bye for now”. Just when I am about to give up, she calls me
and makes time for me out of nowhere, then she gets busy again.
The truth is, I already have plan b, c, d, e... lined up
This girl is like, “okay, thanks, bye for now”. Just when I am about to give up, she calls me
and makes time for me out of nowhere, then she gets busy again.
The truth is, I already have plan b, c, d, e... lined up and I am not desperate. I want to subtly
communicate this.
I want to subtly communicate this.
How do you manage your friends to get what you want?
Well, your advice is a little deflating, but noted nevertheless. Maybe I will look back later and wish I took your advice... but some mistakes, a man just has to make for himself. I just had a girl here ask me out yesterday... it did make me pause and think.
I’m not ready to give up before I begin, but I can recognize a losing proposition before long. Yes, this is an expensive hobby, but it’s still cheaper than flying lessons or buying a horse... (this is a generalization, please don’t fact check prices, people).
ou just don't know if there is any chemistry until you meet face to face.
Getting to know a girl is a visit ONE tactic. If you want to do that you need
to find the best girl and visit ONLY her.
Okay, I’m intrigued... do you care to share a little more on how the game is played in FSU? Normally, when a girl starts to put me off, I will act like I don’t care and say, “That’s too bad. Let me know if you are available some other time and I’ll see if we can work something out”. Usually, they come around because they sense they may lose me. This girl is like, “okay, thanks, bye for now”. Just when I am about to give up, she calls me and makes time for me out of nowhere, then she gets busy again.when I am about to give up
BB-
Women are women. I married a woman from Russia and have no regrets. However, I would not do this over again, nor have I ever recommended it to any of my friends, or to those who asked me about it. Nothing against any women outside our borders, MOB or not.
There is more than 'something' to be said in having a relationship with someone from your own environment. I will speak only of me...even today when I break a conversation with any gal, regardless of age, status, attractiveness, etc..I always find the comfort in having 'commonalities' with much of most things we talk about. They can do almost all I like to do in terms of life outside the home and work. I took all of these for granted before and blamed most of it to life being so easy with these gals. Anytime something becomes 'easy', it loses it's value, its luster, its mystic and all the excitement and enjoyment - the challenge dies along with it. No one here during those times was ever 'good' enough, exciting enough, etc...to keep me in a relationship for more than a month. I have this nasty feeling bedding someone for the third time was a major waste of time because I could be bedding someone else new just as easily.
But relationships are a lot more than that. The very mundane parts and association of any relations are as vital to the integrity of your intimacy as the most basic interactive behaviors with each other. I never spent the time to appreciate the former and solely drowned myself to the latter. It always got boring too fast. Never knowing then that problem wasn't the gals, the problem was always 'me'.
Life in the fast lane, man. You always get to the other side too fast..There's part of me that misses the 'american' in a woman despite of me being so happy with the Russian in my wife.
I would have you also know this is not a one way street. Women, likely even with my wife, regardless of nationality will subconsciously feel the same sentiment. Russian/Ukrainian whatever...there's something to be said in marrying someone from your own..
I do feel incredibly fortunate to have met and married my wife. But....
This is what I took from what 'jb' threw at me. If you have the 'option' - I suggest to choose wisely.
Have a great time in your pending trip. Give yourself, and the gal, the very best of yourself. Be true to yourself and you'd be true to her automatically. You will be out of your comfort and element, so keep a great presence of mind and don't lose yourself. That's the key...
You don't need to understand what I'm telling you now, nor what 'jb' advised me before - someday, regardless what path you take from here on in - you will undoubtedly understand and appreciate it then.
Good luck!
~ an aside: >>it’s still cheaper than flying lessons or buying a horse<<
Funny. I actually 'bought' and had a horse before. Big quarterhorse - 15 hands. Great looking Red Dun. Pastured him in Malibu for a couple of years until I gave him up to an avid horse rancher from Montana as he would've been better off in horse country than be neighbors with the Kardashians et al..
The truth is that you have 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th place girls. Forget about those girls and pursue
the first place girl. If it doesn't work out with the first place girl then go meet new girls and find a
new first place girl.
DON'T RECYCLE GIRLS
Going with girl d or girl e is recycling. You've already made a decision about who is girl number
one.
I just had a girl here ask me out yesterday... it did make me pause and think.
what is a bad attitude? Why shopping is in the same sentence with bad attitude?
I always appreciate your advice (not just this thread). I think I understand the thinking behind not
recycling girls or going back to girl “B”, but I see it differently in some cases.
Let’s say girl A and girl B are a tie.
I always appreciate your advice (not just this thread). I think I understand the thinking behind not
recycling girls or going back to girl “B”, but I see it differently in some cases.
Let’s say girl A and girl B are a tie. I base this “scoring” off of incomplete information because I
haven’t met them yet. Let’s say I flip a coin and go with girl A. When I take her out to eat, she
is a hot mess. She has no table manners, is rude to the waiter, etc. If I had access to this information
previously, girl B would have been the clear winner all along. After dating girl A, girl B is now my first choice.
She would have been my first choice from the beginning if I had more complete information.
Why should I start from scratch if I already found a girl I think would be great for me?
I always appreciate your advice (not just this thread).
I have been with many women more physically attractive than her, but there is something about her calm inner beauty and lack of excitement that I like. Since I tend to get bored, the long visa process is to my advantage. If I’m still feeling the same way after a long engagement, it will be unlike any relationship I have ever had.
Let’s say girl A and girl B are a tie. I base this “scoring” off of incomplete information because I haven’t met them yet. Let’s say I flip a coin and go with girl A. When I take her out to eat, she is a hot mess. She has no table manners, is rude to the waiter, etc. If I had access to this information previously, girl B would have been the clear winner all along. After dating girl A, girl B is now my first choice. She would have been my first choice from the beginning if I had more complete information. Why should I start from scratch if I already found a girl I think would be great for me?
How to Visit Many without lying?
@Donna_Pedro
"tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh’a’?"
We had someone abruptly end a K1 Visa process post here recently. He seemed like a nice guy . On his last trip out, things didn't go as well as he expected. The lady he met had already planned to leave after her approved interview and even lost her job because she thought she was going to the USA . He felt like garbage, but continuing would be worse. I agree, but I do believe he had good intentions from the beginning
I mention this because you are coming across as someone that wants to put another notch in your belt. I hope I am wrong. I also hope you don't take the visa process lightly, and leave yourself an out if you get 'bored' or meet other women. Remember, these women are real people
There is a very simple way to visit many without lying.
Take many trips, visiting one girl each trip.
After a while you might realize you could just think about going to airport while actually having a coffee.
It's not brilliant as it implicitly goes against the advice being sought - to be honest ("without lying").
It is brilliant in that it shows in stark reality the stupidity of thinking that WOVO is morally superior.
My example shows exactly that one can be truthful that they are only there to visit the one gal on that trip.
It's just that there will be several trips which can be compressed as much is time intervals as the guy wants.
It can eventually lead to the situation available to any local guy.
i.e. He doesn't have to leave town and come back in just to be able to date a second, third, etc., gal.
Think about the stupidity wherein a local gal that you may date will ask you if she is the only gal you plan to date within X time period. Really beyond belief right ?
Now, would it be OK for the gal to ask this same question if she lived in an adjoining subdivision?
Just how far away must the second gal be before she can ask the question? Next city, county, next state, country, continent ??
Where is the cutoff?
Think about the stupidity wherein a local gal that you may date will ask you if she is the only gal you plan to date within X time period. Really beyond belief right ?
Now, would it be OK for the gal to ask this same question if she lived in an adjoining subdivision?
Just how far away must the second gal be before she can ask the question? Next city, county, next state, country, continent ??
Where is the cutoff?
It is brilliant in that it shows in stark reality the stupidity of thinking that WOVO is morally superior.
My example shows exactly that one can be truthful that they are only there to visit the one gal on that trip.
Think about the stupidity wherein a local gal that you may date will ask you if she is the only gal you plan to date within X time period. Really beyond belief right ?
A guy should be able to filter the girls out if he spends a ton of time communicating with them. It's using a visit one tactic with a visit many strategy.
Depending on how successful you are at calling them up one at a time after each other. Some may not reply/refuse/be busy/out of town which would leave gaps.
With ML's strategy they're all racked up and ready to go :) So perhaps most efficient use of time.
First, ML has top level interpersonal skills and confidence.
Second, How old is the oldest woman that you would be willing to marry?
Answer that and I will tell you why it's not as likely to work for you.
You've gotta stop taking over other peoples threads.Let’s be clear. I’m not trying to twist anything. I am trying to do what works best for me. I used to set up a lot of dates here in the US with very little communication before the date. I have no problem lining them up. The problem is I went on a ton of dates where I wanted to leave within the first ten minutes. I started extending the amount of conversation as a part of due diligence so I wouldn’t waste as much time. It became much more common that I would end up sleeping with a girl on the first date than my previous nightmare scenario.
So here what is radically different. Once a woman in the FSU gets over a certain age
the men stop seriously considering her for marriage and a family. Men would still be
happy to sit on her couch and get waited on hand and foot and to F#ck her frequently
without a condom, but eventually they will move to another woman's couch and the
cycle will repeat itself.
100% of the women that ML sought out have reached that age. 10% of the women
you are considering have reached that age.
Next, ML has top level grade A interpersonal skills and you don't. He's far more likely
to talk women into doing something they aren't 100% interested in while you will find
it more difficult.
Lastly, ML doesn't spend many months exchanging conversations with these women.
I don't know how many he exchanges but it will be 10% or less than what you intend
to do.
So you aren't actually following ML's tactics, you are doing a hybrid of the wrong
mix but calling your hybrid ML's system in order to give it credibility. You have spent
most of your time here, ignoring most of the advice you get, only highlighting that
which you can twist to match your own theories.
Let’s be clear. I’m not trying to twist anything.
Let's be clear, I was posting in response to Trenchcoat, who seems to hijack otherThanks for clarifying... now your post makes much more sense!
peoples threads. Nothing in my post was in reference to you.
Udachi!
Bill
Trenchcoat has a 97+ page thread of his own here which was made for him as he
kept interrupting other threads with his inanity.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22008.0;topicseen
When I tell a girl I am planning to visit Ukraine, they tend to ask a ton of questions, even early on. They want to know how long I am going, what I am doing there, who will I be seeing, etc.
If you go back to my initial question, I was trying to find a tactful way of navigating through these questions without lying or sounding evasive (saying “none of your business” doesn’t work for me)
So, does anyone think it’s a bad idea to talk to many girls, letting them know you are still talking to other girls, but taking a little more time to get to know them? I think it can help weed out a lot of girls before I meet them. Otherwise, just going by criteria like, she’s young, beautiful, educated, speaks English, live in Kiev and willing to meet me... well, that’s not much to go on... and there’s hundreds and hundreds of those online.
Donna, I hear what you are saying. I really do.
I am thinking, if I were to date a man locally and he would tell me casually he is seeing other girls and encourage me to do the same - He would probably never see me again. Yes, even early in a process. I deserve a separate personal visit - that is how I think about myself and - surprise! I found me a man, who felt the same way. Some women never ask this question upfront, because they do not want to hear the answer. Because then they either have to refuse to participate or will have to step on their pride and pretend it was ok. Its never OK, really.. regardless what a woman says.
So, yes... I understand what you are saying, but I still think that demanding exclusivity before you even meet is excessive. I think it’s a bit much to expect a guy to give up a week or more of his time and hundreds or thousands of dollars for a first date gamble... especially when she isn’t promising exclusivity. Nothing is stopping her from dating other guys. How do I know five other guys aren’t flying in this month to meet her?
I understand your point. It all comes to money, wich is normal. However WOVO mean investing a lot of time upfront, before you met. I do not know how, but me and Mr. Pedro both felt rather strong connection just by talking on the phone. And we did not have video chats like Slype, Whatsup etc. I talked to other guys on the phone as well, but after 1-2 calls was no longer interested in them, but I could spend hours on the phone with Mr. Pedro and not be bored. He talked a lot about his life, like, for example.."He - I have just got a letter from an insurance company" Me - what do they want?" He - they say, my last labs were not covered and I will have to pay XXX dollars out of pocket, a...holes!" Me - "how dare they?" And then I got a wealth of knowledge about how american medical insurance system worked. And a glimpse into credit points too.. It was so interesting to learn about things from him. Then he would say - I need to go grocery shopping.. I - whats in your refridgirator?... And here is another piece of knowledge for me.. He does not like this, but loves that and that. OK, let me make a mental note here. Everything he said was simple life staff, but it was wealth of knowledge for me. I actually put a part of my life on hold just to talk to Mr. Pedro, because I was interested. And this indicated to him that he was not going to waste money if he came to visit me and that I did not have 5 more guys lined up to visit me too. My advise - invest time upfront. Its free for you and will tell you exactly who is truly interested.
The more I talk to FSU women, I’m learning that your philosophy is not uncommon.
I have noticed a lot of prying questions about why I am visiting Ukraine, how long I will be staying, who I am seeing. One girl was out of town when I will be there in November, so I told her that maybe we could meet when I return in January. I am pretty much an open book, so I usually don’t mind questions, but she started demanding to know why I am visiting Ukraine so often. What is she suspicious of? Does she just think I have a ton of girls lined up? Is she thinking I’m a sex tourist?
I found some potential business dealings in Kiev... I’m thinking on setting up some meetings just so suspicious girls will get off my back. There is actually some business potential there, so it won’t be a lie at all...
OK -here we go ! I have resisted commenting as most of what I have to say I have repeated many times here( unlike some who take every opportunity to repeat a lot of nonsense !)
Donna-Pedro has done her best to explain and I totally agree with most of what she has written .
It is 100% consistent with my own knowledge -gained personally and in many( many many) conversations on this topic ( & many others) that relates to this type of scenario.
Telling anyone they are 2nd choice( or the 10th ) or a backup is offensively dumb thing to do --just plain stupid .
Guys come here paranoid about being scammed-- non genuine girls etc etc--yet then think it is ok to tell a girl she is on a list of maybe's !
How would guys react to being told -- "I can see you between 10 am & 11 am as I have other guys to see in the afternoon? Where would you place that girl on YOUR list?btw -- for me- i would not care as regardless of all else I would back myself in if I was really interested in that girl-- why? Because I understand the reality is that NOTHING is real until you meet .
But-- doing that to a girl -an FSU girl in particular -- all you have achieved is to raise the bar higher.--for yourself.
If you have to justify your actions to a girl- you have probably just lost !
Understand that the very large majority of guys who show up in the FSU ( & that is only somewhere less that 5% of those who take to the keyboard) are not in what I call the "normal" guy category eg Read the total idiot Trenchcoat here on forum :wallbash:. Girls may have met a guy/s previously-- or read on FSUW forums some of the horror stories and some of the actions of guys visiting-- some funny,some criminal,some dangerous, some just plain social misfits .
Last for now--one of my favourite stories is a funny one -- a guy shows up in a smaller city with a bag of engagement rings -- and using a few agencies meets a number of girls -- who in each case he asks her to marry him and presents who with an engagement ring! He was quite cut when agency told him that handing out 10 rings was excessive- he told them he still had another 4 to hand out! LoL
Depends of they can get a date or a local deemed worthy enough. By even mid twenties a girl can apparently be left with all the dregs to chose from to date out there. Alcoholics, drug addicts, dim wits, the low paid, unemployed, homeless, criminals, domestic abusers, etc, etc. Ukraine is a poor country with a few wealthier people.So, what you are telling me is that if they aren’t dating around, it’s not cause they are “morally superior” or something. They aren’t dating because the simply can’t.
I’m not sure if this was directly talking to me, but I agree and would never in a million years tell a girl that she was my second choice, nor would I ever volunteer that I have any other dates in the same day, week, or month as that girl. I don’t do this at home either. As previously stated, I have planned multiple dates in a week and I just cancel the other dates if the first one works out. This has never been a problem because no girl has ever asked about if I have other dates planned.
If I ask a girl to go out with me on Saturday, I have never had her ask, “Do you have another date on Friday or something!”... I have had her suggest Friday, and if I already have another date scheduled, I just say “I already have plans”. This has never been a problem and I have never had a girl pry any further.
Maybe the thread should be called “How do you tactfully navigate a WMVM strategy without hurting anyone’s feelings”
The problem I am currently having is that I am discovering a lot of things about my “visit one” girl that I’m not sure I really like. I don’t have time before my trip to build this great rapport (like Donna Pedro did) with someone new.
It’s too late to cancel my trip and I don’t want to fly across the world just to visit one new girl I have been chatting with for less than two weeks.
So yes, I want to make my trip worth it. I want to plan multiple dates, there is no rank. I don’t have a number one, two, three... there are just girls I am interested in who are available when I am there. At home, I am continually dating girls. I date them based on availability, not rank. They are dating around too and nobody has a problem with it. When you find someone you click with, you drop all the others. Why does it have to be so complicated?
I have heard it asked rhetorically, “Do these FSU women stop all dating activity when they agree to go out with a foreign man in a month?”
I really want to know the answer. I don’t really want to ask any girls directly. It sounds invasive, prying, controlling and rude.
Depends of they can get a date or a local deemed worthy enough. By even mid twenties a girl can apparently be left with all the dregs to chose from to date out there. Alcoholics, drug addicts, dim wits, the low paid, unemployed, homeless, criminals, domestic abusers, etc, etc. Ukraine is a poor country with a few wealthier people.
So, what you are telling me is that if they aren’t dating around, it’s not cause they are “morally superior” or something. They aren’t dating because the simply can’t.
It's been long time since a girl asked if I was only visiting her on a trip.
Not sure if it is the girl's the OP's picking or the conversations he's having with them that brings on the questions of why he is visiting her country.
If you have friends in the area or have a valid reason for visiting other than to visit a girl that could ease some of pressures of questions. I have good friends in Odessa, Moscow and Chisnau, Some of girls have met some of my friends....so no lying if I say I am visiting friends and want to meet a girl.
My passion for history and anything historical was a good reason for visiting. Women were amazed of my knowledge of certain subjects. And my many travels to see historical sites( Egypt was a big one), focused attention on something other than visiting a 'girl'.
So, OP, what are you telling these girls that ask why you are visiting????? They already know that visiting on 'business' means.... wink, wink
A few ask right away. I have a number of reasons... I think “looking for love” is a bad one... that invites suspicion and a million other questions.
A bigger challenge is to explain why Ukrainian women? My answer is I find them beautiful and they have traditional values I find lacking in many American women.
A few ask right away. I have a number of reasons... I think “looking for love” is a bad one... that invites suspicion and a million other questions. I have told them about my friend who owns several apartments in Kiev and is letting me stay in one. I talk about my fascination with Ukraine... as a kid, my family used to make Ukrainian Easter eggs. It a very elaborate artistic process that can take several weeks to make one egg. I talk about my love for travel.. Last month I went to Mexico, Nov/Dec I’m going to Ukraine, in January-Mar I’m going to the Netherlands, Germany and France... I think I may have gone overboard on the travel thing once... it’s a good excuse, but it makes Ukraine seem like just a box to check on my bucket list.
A bigger challenge is to explain “why Ukrainian women?” My answer is I find them beautiful and they have traditional values I find lacking in many American women. I know this is a broad generalization, but that’s the gist of it. I know all Ukrainian women don’t meet this description and I haven’t given up on American women either (I have a date later this week in Chicago).
A bigger challenge is to explain “why Ukrainian women?” My answer is I find them beautiful and they have traditional values I find lacking in many American women. I know this is a broad generalization, but that’s the gist of it. I know all Ukrainian women don’t meet this description and I haven’t given up on American women either (I have a date later this week in Chicago).
Why Ukraine? -- they say the most beautiful women in the world are here/there and I want to see for myself and of course--it allows me to visit a country that I am very interested in etc etc
Why Ukraine? -- they say the most beautiful women in the world are here/there and I want to see for myself and of course--it allows me to visit a country that I am very interested in etc etc
I had several UW tell me that UW are all pretty.
I reply that this is not true.
It bewilders them.
Later, I may tell a gal that she is pretty.
Why Ukrainian women???? Easy, I am looking at whole world to find my beloved.
Traditional values? Yes way too broad. Ex: Family is very important for me. In Ukraine, for women, family is very important. I like that.
If they ask what else, mention the beauty you see in Ukrainian women. Not only physical but in how they take care of themselves.
I agree with both of you -- actually is is the overall grooming and presentation that stands out . I think it is clear that looking good is important and as a result -- more like that .
Another point -- Ukraine has a population of over 40 million is not a very large country -- so -- many more per sq km than in physically larger countries.
Last -- in western countries suffering a fat people epidemic - eg in Ukraine a big framed girl may get to 65kgs and still look good -in the west it would be 80 -100kgs -- often at 18 yo !
Now this I totally agree on. What galls me is the number of fat women you get in the UK who think they are entitled to a relationship, having kids, etc all whilst being vastly overweight and making no effort what so ever! I'm fed up with the amount of times I go to the supermarket, DIY store or wherever just to be 'treated' to another obese woman's big fat arse wobbling past my field of view. What's more I get the impression they seem to feel it's something to be proud off. It's truely a horrific sight.A big problem is that the whole “Fat acceptance” movement is gaining global momentum. This puts doctors and medical professionals in quite a quandary. Obesity is preventable, but obesity related problems are the number one healthcare cost in the US.
Take a look at this article I've found online. It's not just me that has noticed it either:
http://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/living/4152218/brit-dating-expert-men-avoid-uk-woman-russian-eastern-european-girls-instead/amp/
Depends of they can get a date or a local deemed worthy enough. By even mid twenties a girl can apparently be left with all the dregs to chose from to date out there. Alcoholics, drug addicts, dim wits, the low paid, unemployed, homeless, criminals, domestic abusers, etc, etc. Ukraine is a poor country with a few wealthier people.Any 'advice' from TC should come with a warning label attached. It beggars belief that he has the audacity to comment on the state of Ukrainian men when he could hardly be put forward as the standard bearer for British men or on the poverty in Ukraine when he is poor himself.
A big problem is that the whole “Fat acceptance” movement is gaining global momentum. This puts doctors and medical professionals in quite a quandary. Obesity is preventable, but obesity related problems are the number one healthcare cost in the US.One sees efforts to desensitize the general public in the media through advertising the ‘larger’ sized clothing and figure as beautiful. It also applies to trying to normalize inter racial relationships where such families are portrayed as the norm, when, in fact, they make up a very small proportion of the population.
Obesity kills, but we are not allowed to talk about it because it hurts fat people’s feelings.
Any 'advice' from TC should come with a warning label attached. It beggars belief that he has the audacity to comment on the state of Ukrainian men when he could hardly be put forward as the standard bearer for British men or on the poverty in Ukraine when he is poor himself.
As for his knowledge of UKR women, or anything FSU related: :wallbash:
A big problem is that the whole “Fat acceptance” movement is gaining global momentum. This puts doctors and medical professionals in quite a quandary. Obesity is preventable, but obesity related problems are the number one healthcare cost in the US.
Obesity kills, but we are not allowed to talk about it because it hurts fat people’s feelings.
A fairly poor UK guy is a pretty wealthy guy when in Ukraine. Even out of Ukraine a fairly poor UK guy in the UK has a far better standard of living than a fairly poor or even average Ukrainian. I only wish we could import Ukrainian girls in solid relationships on mass and export our fatty girls to Ukraine :DA poor person is poor, regardless of where you are. You will not be able to live as locals do so your living costs will always be significantly higher.
One sees efforts to desensitize the general public in the media through advertising the ‘larger’ sized clothing and figure as beautiful.
NI'm fed up with the amount of times I go to the supermarket, DIY store or wherever just to be 'treated' to another obese woman's big fat arse wobbling past my field of view. What's more I get the impression they seem to feel it's something to be proud off. It's truely a horrific sight.
A poor person is poor, regardless of where you are. You will not be able to live as locals do so your living costs will always be significantly higher.
I’d like to see how long your ‘wealth’ lasts in poverty stricken Ukraine.
Fortunately, you won’t be importing anyone anytime soon.
Now this I totally agree on. What galls me is the number of fat women you get in the UK who think they are entitled to a relationship, having kids, etc all whilst being vastly overweight and making no effort what so ever! I'm fed up with the amount of times I go to the supermarket, DIY store or wherever just to be 'treated' to another obese woman's big fat arse wobbling past my field of view. What's more I get the impression they seem to feel it's something to be proud off. It's truely a horrific sight.
Take a look at this article I've found online. It's not just me that has noticed it either:
http://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/living/4152218/brit-dating-expert-men-avoid-uk-woman-russian-eastern-european-girls-instead/amp/ (http://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/living/4152218/brit-dating-expert-men-avoid-uk-woman-russian-eastern-european-girls-instead/amp/)
Disclaimer: The following video is meant for adult audiences only. Parental guidance is strongly suggested.Lol, not quite what I meant, still.....http://youtu.be/scPAemhdkrk
So unhealthy...
Sort of like a men who earn 1/3 of the average wage in their country, and think they are entitled to a pretty girl with a great figure from an economically depressed country. Preferably, one who will wear short skirts, since that is what "turns on" such economic laggards, will crank out babies, and then, to help support the family, go directly to work at some menial job (as they don't want to pay for her education, as that may "liberate" her too much).
Funny how that works, isn't it?
This post was composed without the aid of google.
No, instead, you don't apply yourself to a position which would give you a good standard of living.
You're no different than the fat girl. You're both entitled, and lazy, in your own ways.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
Amusing thread
My 2 cents
I think its ridiculous to give a valid reason to give a lady to travel all the way to the FSU is that is that women of the FSU are so much more attractive than those in the USA. Huh? We have PLENTY of attractive women in the USA, FSU women know that.
THE REASON IS...American men travel to the FSU to marry a quality of woman they couldn't get in the USA
It is also not worthwhile saying that FSU women don't have good men available in the FSU. They have good men there. Its rather Intelligent, Educated , Attractive FSU woman can get a man from the West with something they can not get from FSU men . That's what makes these matchups possible.
Obesity?
Have you guys spent much time in the FSU? They have fat girls too. Have you seen how much cake and chocolates some FSU women can consume? I just looked up the obesity rates, the same as the Midwest USA for the person that said Midwest women were too obese. The issue is when a western man goes to the FSU, they see all the beauties WALKING, when the same quality women in the US are in their BMWs on their way to a restaurant or Whole Foods
The same men get home, go to Walmart look at the Walmart customers and think to themselves, 'FSU women are so much better'
Anyways, does anyone feel sorry for the poor lady that lost her chance to have Brownbear? She could have been 'the one' too. He probably is just too romantic for her. saddddd...She was just one bathroom stall visit away from paradise
lol!
I just found it ironic (ON A TOPIC about justifying meeting multiple people) that the girl that he thought was the one, he turned down because she was honest and had to keep anther engagement
I don't think the obesity is the same, some areas will be comparable as not all of the US will have fat women. I think people can play with statistics to make it look that way which isn't helpful. Having been to the FSU several times I would say there are a lot less fat women there. I think yes it does tend to be the more attractive women that tend to play in the International dating scene. If you look at some of the women doing the more menial jobs in the FSU, the female cleaners, grocery store clerks, etc most are more everyday looking, not necessarily ugly but not model like either. When at Minsk Airport on arrival in the early evening I looked over the balcony and saw some guy meeting a real hottie - a nice short tight black dress on, a great slim figure, pretty young girl. Comparing her to a couple of cleaner girls that walked past moments after they were more everyday looking and I'm pretty sure would not bother to get involved in the International dating scene knowing that they would not be what is being looked for. Not quite true I think but I think these fairly ordinary looking girls would think that even though if tarted up a bit they could be runners, they too were slim & young but only being 6s or maybe a 7 if tarted up probably didn't think they would make the cut. Shame as if they were open to it they would probably be decent girls to get with.
The moment I read Trench say. "I think" - as I know he doesn't - that there follow something particularly daft ...
This summary of hot and dirty v 'clean' girls is just another pile of ...
All one can say is the 6/7 'clean' lasses can be glad they will not get your attention and you can only dream of pulling the hotties in the little black dresses
Trench, even IF you manged to pull an FSU lass - you simply cannot afford 'em and cannot prove you can - as your salary doesn't meet the minimum needed
I'm neither entitled nor lazy.
Ask yourself this though, how many people do you know work in their job AND throughout nearly all their free time?
I get your point regardless I come across as not offering the comfortable lifestyle a girl might make an effort to keep trim for. That is largely out of my hands, because women are now competing heavily in the workplace against men wages have gone done and neither side win nor get what they want. There's loads of graphs around that show wages have been going down in real terms compared to the seventies. Every decade is worse than the last whilst house prices have been moving in the opposite direction dramatically.
It would be pointless for me to apply to positions that are more professional/grades up from what I currently do. The money wold be little better, particularly after tax. This is not the US or Canada where you get a decent amount more. In the UK you get a piddly amount more but get a load of stress and ordeal. After being dumped with the burden/overburden of your employers organisation dating would be the last thing you'd have on your mind.
Apart from my family being in the UK, being English by birth and only speaking English as a fluent language there is little good reason to be in the UK. The Pound being a stronger currency than the FSU currencies is one of the few positives that helps me. If I can get an independent income sorted in the UK then I can go to Ukraine at least part of the year and live well. Really I have got fed up of having to look at fat women every time I leave my front door in the UK. I can walk out in Ukraine and see people that are normal enough everyday sgape, no hippo's, weeldebeast, buffalo's or elephants to shock my brain into severe trauma.
Instead I find women that are soft, friendly and feminine and easy to date. I find accomodation and shopping at an nice affordable rate. I can live well out there on what is only a modest amount of money by UK standards. Here you don't even get the reward of decent women when you work your rear end off, here for working your rear end of your social life will suck as a guy.You don't know the social cues in Ukraine. You are treated better because you are a potential source of income. Move there, let the locals see that you're cheap, and their attitudes toward you will harden. You are living in a fantasy world if you believe Ukraine is an easy place to live, or filled with people of refined manners. It's still a boorish, proletarian culture.
Amusing thread
Anyways, does anyone feel sorry for the poor lady that lost her chance to have Brownbear? She could have been 'the one' too. He probably is just too romantic for her. saddddd...She was just one bathroom stall visit away from paradise
lol!
I just found it ironic (ON A TOPIC about justifying meeting multiple people) that the girl that he thought was the one, he turned down because she was honest and had to keep anther engagement
One girl is the child of a doctor. She has a good government job. She has a nice apartment in Kiev and a country home too.
The girl I just met has a Kiev Apartment and another home in Poltovo.
Her family owns a luxury hotel. She goes to Egypt and Greece and other places across Europe every year. She is actually skeptical and asked me what the US standard of living is. I was dismayed when I saw it was ranked 17 on a list (Ukraine was 73). This girl is not a gold digger... She just doesn’t want to go from being well off, to being poor. Her lifestyle and social status may actually go down a notch. I own a small brewery... so does her family... but her operation is easily 10 times the size of mine. It’s actually quite humbling. Her last boyfriend was rich, but he didn’t want a family. She told me she wants love and a family, and doesn’t care if she isn’t rich.
official salary maybe
under the table maybe 3 to 5 times this depending on type of doctor, location, etc
plus whatever they can steal
According to my husband, an FSU citizen, "That's exactly what it is."
I see it a bit differently. There is a small middle class, mostly working in industries where they can earn their incomes from foreign sources. But it is a very small class. Anyone who owns a hotel, or a brewery, or a candy factory, obtained that property via theft.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
Okay, so “miss hottie” who was dying to meet me at the airport has been blowing me off lately, so I started chatting with other girls... just in case.
Then, it happened... I saw this girl’s profile. She may be the most beautiful girl I have ever seen. I knew it was a one in a million shot, but I sent her a message anyway. She responded and I quickly got her number to go on Viber. We chatted for about five hours and then decided to video chat. She was just as beautiful in person even though she was just wearing a bathrobe and no makeup. The call was a little awkward because her spoken English is not very good, but we both felt a mutual connection. We agreed to go back to texting.
I stayed up all night texting her, she is taking university classes and she cut class to keep talking to me. Neither of us wanted the conversation to end. We ended up chatting for more than 24 hours, almost nonstop. We shared everything about our lives... we exchanged well over 100 pictures of our lives.
Maybe, just maybe, I understand what Donna Pedro was talking about... this great connection. I have no desire to talk to any other girls at this point. I can’t even think about a plan “b”. I just want to talk to this girl and only this girl. I have never felt so “committed” to a prospect. Maybe it’s foolish... maybe it’s lack of sleep. I have removed my online profiles and I only have one focus right now.
I have also seen how easy it is to drum up a conversation online with a girl and ask for a date, so I can figure out a plan b when I am in country, if I have to.
As for this economic debate goes... The girls I have been talking to do not seem to have financial problems. I can only picture one of them who would take the economic hit and hook up with a poor foreigner (sorry TC) this girl is an unemployed widow with a one year old baby. Otherwise, these girls don’t seem too desperate.
One girl is the child of a doctor. She has a good government job. She has a nice apartment in Kiev and a country home too. The girl I just met has a Kiev Apartment and another home in Poltovo. Her family owns a luxury hotel. She goes to Egypt and Greece and other places across Europe every year. She is actually skeptical and asked me what the US standard of living is. I was dismayed when I saw it was ranked 17 on a list (Ukraine was 73). This girl is not a gold digger... She just doesn’t want to go from being well off, to being poor. Her lifestyle and social status may actually go down a notch. I own a small brewery... so does her family... but her operation is easily 10 times the size of mine. It’s actually quite humbling. Her last boyfriend was rich, but he didn’t want a family. She told me she wants love and a family, and doesn’t care if she isn’t rich.
So, I’m glad I approach these women rather humbly and sell them on “me” instead of acting like the rich foreigner who will rescue her from her wretched life. This latest girl’s ties to home are so deep that it may even be a relationship killer. She was in a long term relationship with a guy from Switzerland, but that is so much closer to Ukraine. If it works out with this girl, the solution may be for us to live in Ukraine in the summers. I don’t think I would mind.
Maybe some people are desperate and want to be rescued... but not everyone.
Sounds like you're just going to be jumping from girl to girl with nothing to end up with and plenty of sightseeing alone.Ever hear of google translate?
Very telling how you fall for anyone giving you any attention.
>>>>>>The call was a little awkward because her spoken English is not very good, but we both felt a mutual connection
Very funny, talked for 24 hours with someone who's English is not very good? Summers in Ukraine??hahha
I think you meant: "but I felt a mutual connection".
According to my husband, an FSU citizen, "That's exactly what it is."
I see it a bit differently. There is a small middle class, mostly working in industries where they can earn their incomes from foreign sources. But it is a very small class. Anyone who owns a hotel, or a brewery, or a candy factory, obtained that property via theft.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
It's better than it used to be, but it only gives you the gist of what is said.The conversations I have had with google translate flow much better than many conversations where the girl has “good” English speaking skills.... except the girl who was a professional translator. She was close to fluent.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
What I mean is that they are typically close, but do not convey exactly what is said. That usually results in misunderstandings.There is definitely a huge opportunity for misunderstanding. I was trying to help out the conversation by translating my words into Russian. She sent me a silly home video...I told her I thought it was “silly” but it translated into “stupid”. From that point, she said “I will do the translating”. She knows enough English to correct bad translations, so she never looks foolish (like I did).
This post was composed without the aid of google.
There is definitely a huge opportunity for misunderstanding. I was trying to help out the conversation by translating my words into Russian. She sent me a silly home video...I told her I thought it was “silly” but it translated into “stupid”. From that point, she said “I will do the translating”. She knows enough English to correct bad translations, so she never looks foolish (like I did).
Hmm. Week at the Hilton in Turkey?Her parents
Just made the decision? Wonder who is sponsoring her to be there?
Been there, done that.
But! Seems out of the ordinary to, all of a sudden, make a decision to make a trip to Turkey (of all places). And camp out at the Hilton.
Keep a weather eye open. Especially if this gal is as beautiful as you make her out to be.
I left a little part of that story out. When the girl called, she almost convinced me to give her another chance. I asked her out that next Friday. She said she couldn’t Friday because she had another date that she had already scheduled. She said she could do Saturday, but not too early because she will have to go back home. The guy was taking her to a concert that was going to run pretty late, so she was planning on spending the night at his house.
Yea, that poor girl..
Hahaha!
But she was simply doing a WMVM approach! Some of you even encourage women to see other men. And here is what happens when they do. Obviousely Brownbear is not THAT open minded (my attempt at humor)..
talked for 24 hours with someone who's English is not very good? Summers in Ukraine??hahha
Hahaha!
Don’t you realize the difference in what I am saying?
When I find someone I like, I don’t keep dating other girls.
I remember one other girl did a similar thing to me and her response was, “You wouldn’t buy the first pair of jeans you tried on, would you?”
You wouldn’t buy the first pair of jeans you tried on, would you?”
Summers in Ukraine I would not encourage, however in situation described ny Browbear, in order to talk for such a long time both a man and a woman would have to apply considerable efforts. And it looks like she did apply efforts too, not just him. Which means she was interested. Actually, even when english is good, talking a foreign language for for 24 hours is difficult.. Everything 2 hours+ is difficult even after 17 years speaking it everyday.
Problem is it can all evaporate into nothing when on meeting if there is no chemistry. The girl I met in Minsk a couple of months back wanted to talk on video chat & message way more than I did. I knew to keep it short so as not to waste loads of time and keep her interest keen. So keen in fact she was a bit miffed at me keep calling it short, lol.
Being friends in such a situation is of course possible. It no doubt has its merits but I'm not there for that, if it were a girl who I could see as being someone I would see as fitting with me as a frIend - i.e similar interests or outlook I probably would but otherwise I view it as a bit pointless.
Summers in Ukraine I would not encourage, however in situation described ny Browbear, in order to talk for such a long time both a man and a woman would have to apply considerable efforts. And it looks like she did apply efforts too, not just him. Which means she was interested. Actually, even when english is good, talking a foreign language for for 24 hours is difficult.. Everything 2 hours+ is difficult even after 17 years speaking it everyday.
Problem is it can all evaporate into nothing when on meeting if there is no chemistry. The girl I met in Minsk a couple of months back wanted to talk on video chat & message way more than I did. I knew to keep it short so as not to waste loads of time and keep her interest keen. So keen in fact she was a bit miffed at me keep calling it short, lol.I’m racking my brain to remember a time when I have used video chat before a date and it didn’t work out. I can remember dates where we talked extensively on the phone and it didn’t work out... that was usually because they severely misrepresented themselves with their pictures. This problem would have been solved by VC.
Being friends in such a situation is of course possible. It no doubt has its merits but I'm not there for that, if it were a girl who I could see as being someone I would see as fitting with me as a frIend - i.e similar interests or outlook I probably would but otherwise I view it as a bit pointless.
Why not to encourage Summers in Ukraine? I found it quite nice out there in Summer, particularly around Odessa, etc. So long as you can stay out of any trouble which may rear up but that's not been a problem since Maiden in the main. I've found it generally pretty cordial all the time I've been out there like any other fairly civilised country. In the main tourists are not bothered so long as they don't go looking for trouble or be real idiots.
Okay, so I asked the girl more about her trip to Turkey. It turns out that it was planned for awhile. She mentioned it because she realized that she won’t be back home until my second day in Ukraine and she wanted to meet me at the airport when I arrived. She still wants to go out with me the day she gets back. I jokingly said I could meet her in Turkey. She got really excited... she was let down when I told her I was kidding. I don’t think she would be excited if she was going with another man. She texts me a hundred or more times throughout the day... I doubt she will keep this up if she is on vacation with another guy.
When you first me somebody, its kind of exciting, everything you talk about is new.
My guess this girl had nothing else going on with her as opposed to being truly interested into our Price Charming.
This girl is so interested in our OP, she tells him that all of a sudden decided to go to Turkey. Who knows with who, although the knowledgeable here know.
BTW- Sorry if i come across as a doubter Mr Beard, just seen this situation with your 'girls' so much I do feel sorry for what you have to deal with.
When you first me somebody, its kind of exciting, everything you talk about is new.
I learnt LOADS from ladies that it didn't work out with - you are missing out on hints to do better
Back this train wreck up.....
I can't believe my eyes, I read this whole thread and all I have to say is WOW! I am not even sure how to reply, someone needs to get real honest with you BB. I am not going to quote pieces of your thread....Just take the time to go back through it and read it yourself.
First off I am not attacking you in anyway...I am really trying to help. IMO you are not ready to meet a FSUW or any other woman at this time...
You are all over the map here. You speak about logic, statistics and that you are a data analyst.
Everything about you is self image....Not once did I read about your good heart, your high moral standard and character. Life's enjoyment and all the other positives.
Anyone that gives you advice and you don't like it, you want to defend your position or attack them.
Try that with a normal FSU woman and you will get your ass handed to you.
You mention that you are the "Dad of the year" and you would take on a wet bobcat for your children. Then you boast about riding a 180mph motorcycle, skiing, mountain climbing, boating and extreme sports. Doesn't sound too logical for a single parent to engage in high risk activities for fear of losing his life, making his kids life a living hell. Also showing your new woman that she well could be a young widow with a bunch of kids.
You talk about being one of the most intelligent people, with a IQ that is only of 1-2% of the earths population. The truth is a IQ of a 140 something won't even get you a application to Mensa which they claim to have 1-2% intelligent people in the world. Statistics show intelligent people don't have basic common sense.
You always mention that you are looking for a smoking hot woman, external beauty is #1 on your shopping list....Why is that? to make yourself look good? maybe ask yourself that question. Not once have you mentioned you are looking for a good woman. A woman who has a good heart, who is kind and loving. A woman of integrity and is as loyal as the day is long....all you are looking for is a hot body that will play mom to your kids. You even mention that you are not in it for love....Isn't that what it's all about? Love...
Then you think having a Masters from a ivy league like Harvard is something. When the truth is that statistics show most "white collar criminals" come from Harvard.
How can you be at the peak of your game with only a few hours of sleep a day....it takes longer than that to reach REM.
I could go on and on here. My advice is you need to learn yourself, you haven't yet. If we don't learn from our mistakes, we get to repeat them until we learn.
I probably know what your bio reads on your profile.
Maybe you need to look for "sponsors", not dating or marriage sites. Look at some of the FSU sponsor sites. They are for people who are looking for "benefits"...You can find your beautiful woman...she will play mommy and she will have things that she wants from you...check it out, it may work for you
Mr Beard, I found your first thread here from 3 years ago under introductions. You had quite the thread. Just wondering what you had done/learned in your life since then. Did you ever take that trip to an FSU country?I’m not sure I get your point. You want to cleverly insult me, but can’t, so you resurrect a three year old post that is dead wrong on 90% of it’s content?
I found one post that summed up much of your thread:
Just interested in what changes you made to better yourself. Or if you were same guy looking for a young beautiful girl? We are all looking to make ourselves a better person in some ways.
Thank you for coming back, most guys we never hear from again.
BB I don't have any disdain for you but you should know that most girls will at some point want the guy to travel to them to meet. So if you tell a girl you are going to travel to Turkey while a joke is ok she will tire at some point if you do not meet.
If you are wealthy and have the time on your hands it's best to travel to the FSU to get the low down on it all. In general it's good fun apart from the odd difficultly here and there that you just need to ride out.
Going it alone has never bothered me at all in life and many members here it doesn't either. For many though I can understand if it does particularly first time out can be quite daunting particularly on arrival. It's a very different looking culture and there can be some culture shock even for travellers who have travelled to other places abroad. I wouldn't look down at all on people who don't wish to do it alone, it can be a safer and more reassuring option for a first timer.
I think if you have the money consider either using a decently respected marriage agency or even an AFA tour. Some members here look down in either or both but for first timers it may nor be a bad option. With a tour you'll be with a load of other guys, mostly from the US. Everything will be sorted for you, and catered for western tastes. You'll get to meet a load of women at each venue specifically held for thd tour. I don't even discount for myself in the next year or so.
Okay, if you really want to know, shortly after that post, I was hospitalized with congestive heart failure. I almost died in the hospital multiple times. I was getting ready to submit my application for a heart transplant. The doctors gave me 3-5 years to live sans transplant.
For the first year or so, I lived every day like it was my last. I partied, bought my first non-sensible car, and slept with a ton of women.
Then, a scary thing happened... the medication and reduced stress lifestyle worked so well that my heart started recovering very rapidly without surgery. The doctors said I may fully recover and live a normal life. This made me take inventory of everything. I was given a second chance to live the life I want to live and be the person I truly want to be.
There is no point to get into all the details, but the short answer is, “I have changed virtually everything about who I am”.
There were many things about myself I didn’t like and I changed those things. Any posts you read from back then may as well have been written by a different person.
Hey.
I'm willing to give this gal the benefit of the doubt. More power to you Mr. Beard. I can tell you that I am way out of my league with the woman I've been with for the past year and a half. Don't know what she sees in me.
Well, good for you. Must have been terrible for your kids. As we age, health becomes a major issue. Good luck!!
Please don't take anything I say as personal, I always felt like a learned the most from my detractors. I am not big on the pats on the back....go get um kid!!
I’m sure if I get engaged, these same board members will say She is using me. If I am happily married for ten years, they will say I am lying...
When I wrote about my search, it got hostile. I said the girl was family oriented and described her behavior and some thought she was going to use me. I got married to her and some said my marriage didn't exist. Next month I'll be 7 years married and some, behind PMs, tell each other my marriage is going to fail. I first communicated with my wife 9 years ago and they are still trying to convince themselves they are right after all this time.Thanks for the warning! I expect there may be at least one pathetic loser who will troll me for years to come. I feel sorry for people that can’t manage their own miserable lives so they spread their gloom and hate in the only place they feel they have any control or power... on an anonymous forum.
What I've come to realize there are some idiots that see the world differently than I. My version of a good girl is a bad girl to them and my version of a bad girl is a good girl to them so they'd never choose the kind of women I'd choose. I've concluded they'll never have the same success I'm having in relationships, business, and in life. So if you're wise, learned from past mistakes, a good judge in the people you're dealing with, you'll be fine.
Been there, done that.:tmi:? ;D
From what I have read, most places take credit cards. I’m not planing on being extavigant with this girl. Should $500 cash be enough? Does it matter if I bring $20’s or $100’s as far as exchanging goes?
If I don’t rent car and I exchange money away from the airport, does that mean Uber is my best bet for transportation from the airport?
Also, people say don’t get a SIM card at the airport. How am I supposed to get a ride without a sim and without Ukrainian money?
What kind of gift (if anything) is appropriate when meeting a girl I have only been talking to for a few weeks? I don’t want to be rude, but I don’t want to be over the top either.
In the US, I usually greet a date I have never met before with a hug, and sometimes a kiss on the cheek. Is this an appropriate greeting in Ukraine?
What kind of dress style is most appropriate? Chinos or khakis with a button down shirt? Jeans? Should I bring a suit if we go somewhere nice?
That’s all for now. Thanks in advance everyone!
Okay, my trip is fast approaching and I’m trying to get a handle on the logistical aspects of some things before I go. Any help would be appreciated.
I’m still undecided about whether or not I should rent a car. I haven’t picked out an apartment, but it will probably be close to the city center (where the girl I am visiting lives). This will be a VO trip if all goes well. Any opinions on if people think I will really need a car? She doesn’t drive. If I get a car, is the parking situation difficult most places?
From what I have read, most places take credit cards. I’m not planing on being extavigant with this girl. Should $500 cash be enough? Does it matter if I bring $20’s or $100’s as far as exchanging goes?
If I don’t rent car and I exchange money away from the airport, does that mean Uber is my best bet for transportation from the airport?
Also, people say don’t get a SIM card at the airport. How am I supposed to get a ride without a sim and without Ukrainian money?
What kind of gift (if anything) is appropriate when meeting a girl I have only been talking to for a few weeks? I don’t want to be rude, but I don’t want to be over the top either.
In the US, I usually greet a date I have never met before with a hug, and sometimes a kiss on the cheek. Is this an appropriate greeting in Ukraine?
What kind of dress style is most appropriate? Chinos or khakis with a button down shirt? Jeans? Should I bring a suit if we go somewhere nice?
That’s all for now. Thanks in advance everyone!
+ one for this advice.... First trip is fast approaching
Re sim - Airport is near enough same price -- it is not much regardless and convenience way over rides cost ! :)
1/ *I* say do not buy a sim at the airport - they are often not the best deal - you can buy one in the dedicated network shops in the centre .. may be with the lady you've come to meet - as you'll surely have wifi at the airport at your apartment / hotel and the airport - SSID "Free Borispil WI-FI" - free for 30 mins
2/ If you know Uber then why not use them? - it works the same- but you'll need to meet the driver in the car park ( lot) on the ground level - exit right from arrivals - approx 50 m = cost 300- 350 UAH
If you want to go really native go via SKYBus http://skybus.kiev.ua/en/ (http://skybus.kiev.ua/en/) - c. 80 UAH .. You can buy your ticket online
3/ SC meets me at the airport and I nearly always wear a suit - she loves it as you've made an effort to impress.
Dare to be different and enjoy !
Okay, my trip is fast approaching and I’m trying to get a handle on the logistical aspects of some things before I go. Any help would be appreciated.
I’m still undecided about whether or not I should rent a car. I haven’t picked out an apartment, but it will probably be close to the city center (where the girl I am visiting lives). This will be a VO trip if all goes well. Any opinions on if people think I will really need a car? She doesn’t drive. If I get a car, is the parking situation difficult most places?
From what I have read, most places take credit cards. I’m not planing on being extavigant with this girl. Should $500 cash be enough? Does it matter if I bring $20’s or $100’s as far as exchanging goes?
If I don’t rent car and I exchange money away from the airport, does that mean Uber is my best bet for transportation from the airport?
Also, people say don’t get a SIM card at the airport. How am I supposed to get a ride without a sim and without Ukrainian money?
What kind of gift (if anything) is appropriate when meeting a girl I have only been talking to for a few weeks? I don’t want to be rude, but I don’t want to be over the top either.
In the US, I usually greet a date I have never met before with a hug, and sometimes a kiss on the cheek. Is this an appropriate greeting in Ukraine?
What kind of dress style is most appropriate? Chinos or khakis with a button down shirt? Jeans? Should I bring a suit if we go somewhere nice?
That’s all for now. Thanks in advance everyone!
1/ *I* say do not buy a sim at the airport - they are often not the best deal - you can buy one in the dedicated network shops in the centre .. may be with the lady you've come to meet - as you'll surely have wifi at the airport at your apartment / hotel and the airport - SSID "Free Borispil WI-FI" - free for 30 mins
2/ If you know Uber then why not use them? - it works the same- but you'll need to meet the driver in the car park ( lot) on the ground level - exit right from arrivals - approx 50 m = cost 300- 350 UAH
If you want to go really native go via SKYBus http://skybus.kiev.ua/en/ (http://skybus.kiev.ua/en/) - c. 80 UAH .. You can buy your ticket online
3/ SC meets me at the airport and I nearly always wear a suit - she loves it as you've made an effort to impress.
Dare to be different and enjoy !
Thanks,
It was extremely difficult. I am all my kids have really... their moms are not very involved in their lives. They would like to have a stepmom who is not abusive. They don’t expect a lot... just someone who will be nice to them.
I actually listen to my detractors (as much as possible). A very limited few people like to throw insults and offer nothing constructive... I ignore them.
Keep the constructive criticism flowing... it helps me and also all the noobs out there who are afraid to post questions in fear of being attacked.
FSUW, in general, are not great with stepchildren, at least, not stepchldren who aren't grown and on their own. In most cases, this will be exacerbated if that woman has her own child. This is a cultural attitude. So, if your children are under 18, I would not recommend seeking an FSUW.
Perhaps. But from what I have seen, not likely. I can think of two men I know, both diaspora Ukrainians (and therefore, not really "Ukrainian" in the eyes of FSU Ukrainians) whose marriages to UW fell apart because of children. In one case, the man was a widower, in the other, his wife hit the road, no contact with her children. One of the woman brought her son into the marriage, the other did not have children.You can include me as well. 😃
I don't think the conflict is usually with the wife, it is in demanding certain behaviours of the children which don't always align with how children here are raised differently, although in one case, the UW would never have accepted any man's children. The only man I can think of who had no issues with this is Manny.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
When I wrote about my search, it got hostile. I said the girl was family oriented and described her behavior and some thought she was going to use me. I got married to her and some said my marriage didn't exist. Next month I'll be 7 years married and some, behind PMs, tell each other my marriage is going to fail. I first communicated with my wife 9 years ago and they are still trying to convince themselves they are right after all this time.
FSUW, in general, are not great with stepchildren, at least, not stepchldren who aren't grown and on their own. In most cases, this will be exacerbated if that woman has her own child. This is a cultural attitude. So, if your children are under 18, I would not recommend seeking an FSUW.
Many men here had their marriages to FSUW break up because of children, and none of those men had primary custody of their children. The only one I can think of who made it work was Vaughn, and he posted, years ago, that it was a very difficult process (plus, he did not have primary custody).
This post was composed without the aid of google.
Perhaps. But from what I have seen, not likely. I can think of two men I know, both diaspora Ukrainians (and therefore, not really "Ukrainian" in the eyes of FSU Ukrainians) whose marriages to UW fell apart because of children. In one case, the man was a widower, in the other, his wife hit the road, no contact with her children. One of the woman brought her son into the marriage, the other did not have children.
This is a subject I do not take lightly, which is why I have only ever talked to one woman with a child.
TRue and also how come I can not slap a child on his backside? And even 5 year olds threaten you with child services?
I would take many precautionary measures before taking the leap including spending a couple months in Ukraine to see how the kids interact on a longer term basis. I know the stakes are high, but there also some potential benefits to such a marriage. I don’t expect to be this kid’s dad and I don’t expect her to become my kids’ mom, but it would be nice to have a positive female role model in my daughter’s lives.
but here we are, celebrating our 17th anniversary on Monday.
You can pay using your UBER account ? Watch her get safe home and wish her 'good night '?When you say “watch her get safe home” are you saying I should ride with her all the way home instead of just putting her in the car?
I would say that child issues were the root of at least 80% of the problems.
Dude. Uber. The app tracks the progress of the ride to the destination.
I'd say the problems are with the adults, not the kids. I've got kids from another marriage and it's not going to end my marriage.Allow me to clarify. I am not blaming the children. I am saying that child related issues were a source of problems. For instance, her child would hit my child. Her first reaction was to interrogate my child to find out what he said to provoke her child into violence. She would tell her child that I am not his real father, so he didn’t have to do what I say. When my children got in trouble, she would tell them they are evil and have the devil living in their heart.
In the rare case I would consider a UW with kids, I will apply even more scrutiny to the issue.
Most of us men have been married before and it didn't work out or we wouldn't be here.Absolute Gold 2T.
This is an opportunity for the men NOT TO F#CK IT UP the second time.
One thing that amazes me to know end is that two adults contemplating marriage don't
have 81,002 conversations about children, child raising, discipline, punishment, education,
expectations, boys vs girls, where will they sleep, what if they don't eat vegetables, sleepovers,
teenage sex, bed wetting, discipline in public and private, pets, responsibilities around the house,
religion, going to church, circumcision, how they will affect sex, what we wear around the house,
what they wear in public, makeup, what to do if they walk into the room 2 seconds before climax,
(because they will) etc, etc, etc, etc.
The idiots who think they will work it out as they go along are idiots. Leaving everything to chance
in a situation where a woman is new to your country, your culture, your language and you, and
stressed out in ways you can't possibly understand, AND doing it totally on the fly, hoping love
conquers all is begging for problems.
The more things you sort out (or try to sort out) the more familiar you are with the thought
process of each other and having conversations in advance about similar situations won't solve
all your future problems (not even close) but it greatly advances your understanding of each
other and understanding each will help you tackle new problems together rather, than opposed
to each other.
That's my two kopecks
I disagree with you Bill, unless both parties already have children.I don’t think that was what Bill was getting at. It was more that having a deep discussion on all kinds of issues, children being one, would give an insight into a prospective partners thought processes and could flag areas of concern.
Most people without children have all sorts of ideas on what they will do, but it rarely works out that way. I would hazard a guess brownbear's second wife would never had stated "I will blame your child in every argument he has with my child. I will treat him as less than my own child."
This post was composed without the aid of google.
I'd say the problems are with the adults, not the kids. I've got kids from another marriage and it's not going to end my marriage.
And we both were and are very determined to make things work. So it does not matter - with or without kids - if you are determined to make things work, they will.
Mr. Pedro says that 75% of his problems in his previous marriage were kids. ANd he was married to their mom. They had different approach to parenting.
Our approach was somewhat different too, but mostly in details rather than core things. And we both were and are very determined to make things work. So it does not matter - with or without kids - if you are determined to make things work, they will.
Okay, a couple random etiquette questions.
I once heard that Eastern European women don’t believe in hugging or kissing in the entrance area of a home (or right outside).... then I dated a Polish girl. I would never kiss her until her apartment door was securely closed and we were also a few feet inside her home. She finally asked why I did that. She told me that is nonsense.... Is this true for UW?
Is it common to take shoes off when entering one’s home?
It’s funny... where I grew up in Southern California... I only knew a few people that did this... and my friends all thought it was weird. Now that I live in the Chicago area... everyone does it... probably has something to do with snow on everyone’s shoes...
Okay, so I’m having issues with my credit card and my bank!
I used bookkng.com to reserve my apartment. The aparment tried to get a deposit (one day rent) and it was declined. I called my bank and discovered that I cannot make any purchase in Ukraine because it is on the “banned” list of countries.
I was going to get a prepaid Travel Visa with AAA, but transactions in Ukraine are banned with them too.
Has anyone experienced problems like this? What are the best solutions?
Okay, so I’m having issues with my credit card and my bank!
I have used prepaid mastercards without any issues. One is currently being used frequently by my MIL, we deposit every month to it and she uses it both to pay with in stores and withdraw money.
Two web-based I have tried and have no issues with ever ( maybe you got more options in the states. )
Skrill.com
neteller.com
Okay, so I’m having issues with my credit card and my bank!
I used bookkng.com to reserve my apartment. The aparment tried to get a deposit (one day rent) and it was declined. I called my bank and discovered that I cannot make any purchase in Ukraine because it is on the “banned” list of countries.
I was going to get a prepaid Travel Visa with AAA, but transactions in Ukraine are banned with them too.
Has anyone experienced problems like this? What are the best solutions?
I don’t think that was what Bill was getting at. It was more that having a deep discussion on all kinds of issues, children being one, would give an insight into a prospective partners thought processes and could flag areas of concern.
Thanks for the tips... I worked it out with my bank and they made an exception for me regarding
their “no Ukraine” policy. It’s kind of funny... they asked more invasive “why are you going to
Ukraine?” questions than the UW ask.
When I used Bookings.com this summer for an Apartment in Lviv they would only accept payment in cash - Ghrvina or Euros, Dollars, etc. I personally don't like walking around with much in the way of paper money in Ukraine as it's a pain. On card I know my money is less likely to walk off, lol.Yea, it’s kind of a pain, but I think it will work out. The apartment building I am staying in is huge. The company I am renting from has several listings in the same building... there were several other people listing rentals in the same building.
Hotels may be different. Think the credit card problem only tends to be if your paying outside Ukraine. Many hotels can take card payment while you are there so no problem, apartment owners don't tend to have that facility.
Apartments can also be a pain trying to get to when there, many aren't run as well/organised as hotels. So a hotel may be an easier fix at least for the first day or two off arrival so you get your bearings around the place.
That's funny. My experience is the less you say the less invasive a bank will be.
1. Tourism
2. I'm a secret agent, none of your Business
I was in Kiev one time (of course I told them I was traveling) and none of my bank
cards worked and they wouldn't do anything to help me until I was back on American
soil. So I got American Express to wire me $3000.
gosh!
I would think that a Harvard MBA would know that it's standard operating procedure to notify your CC issuer before travel in a foreign country
otherwise charges might be rejected
she’s a rich daughter of a Mafia crime boss (as has been speculated).
My bank rejected my first attempt to pay for airfares to Russia.
Yea, it’s kind of a pain, but I think it will work out. The apartment building I am staying in is huge. The company I am renting from has several listings in the same building... there were several other people listing rentals in the same building.
I was still unsure about how I pay and how I coordinate everything when I get there, so the girl I’m seeing offered to call them to get a handle on how it is going to work. I figure it must be a pretty decent apartment... it’s in the same building my girl lives in... and she’s a rich daughter of a Mafia crime boss (as has been speculated).
She’s making me feel a bit better about her trip to Turkey. She sends me texts and pictures every few minutes.... if she is with another guy, he must be getting pretty pissed off by now.
What's your take BB on her potentially being part of a mafia/dirty money family BB? If this is the case and you got on with the girl where do you see yourself as fitting in if at all into the equation?I guess time will tell on this. I know she has money... at least by Ukrainian standards. A bottle of red wine exploded on her luggage on her Turkey vacation. The dry cleaning bill was $300. This forum has made me wary of any time a girl has a problem that can be solved with money. I asked her “what are you going to do?” She paid the bill without batting an eye.
So, as long as I keep her happy and them happy... does it matter how they got their money? .
I think it’s possible to be with this girl either way without putting my life in danger (unless she has other ex boyfriends she hasn’t mentioned who sleep with the fishes)
Reading all of this and earlier posts -- I am giving you somewhere from zero to less than 1% chance with this girl.
I don't think you have anything to worry about when it comes to danger. She may be looking for a family life but she may not give up a lifestyle that you can't afford. If you're a quality man, she'd be a fool to give it up if you're a few dollars short.You really have made me take a step back and take a look how I have proven everyone wrong so far... I plan to continue the trend.
Most guys haven't obtained a date with the girl. BB has. I'd say his chances are greater than that. I remember people making prediction on my relationship. They predicted my wife wouldn't marry me and when she did, they predicted she will leave me after getting the green card. After she got the green card, they predicted she would leave me when she got citizenship. When she got citizenship, they predicted she will leave me after sponsoring her mother. There's a lot of a lot of relationship experts here that refuse to believe they are wrong so they continue with predictions until they are right.
I care about who she is on the inside.
And you know about what's inside her how ???Perhaps I need to be more clear. I care about who she is, as in... I am interested in finding out who she is. I care about the topic. Make sense?
How long have you been with her face to face ?
Some guys are just trying to catch a woman. Catching a woman is actually easy. The part you need to worry about is understanding if she's worth catching. She likes you and you like her but you may not be compatible enough to live together. You may learn she wants to open another restaurant and she doesn't have a level enough head to be an owner and be successful. Lots of things to sort out. When you begin the process of figuring her out, she will notice and appreciate your interest in her and she may notice you have standards that if not met, you won't get into a relationship woman. She'll respect that.
You really have made me take a step back and take a look how I have proven everyone wrong so far... I plan to continue the trend.
People said as a man divorced twice with three kids, nobody will be interested in me... Wrong!
They said I couldn’t attract a smoking hot, educated girl 15 years years younger than me... Wrong!
They said no girls will want me with a beard... Wrong! In fact, this girl showed be pictures of her ex-boyfriend and he has a beard too.
She started a successful restaurant in her early 20’s and her ex husband buried it into the ground. She understands how business works.
She showed me her inbox on the dating site with over 500 incoming unread messages. Out of all of the guys she talked to, she narrowed it down to a guy from London (TC?), a guy from Israel and me. She said she lost interest in both of them and now is only talking to me.
Most guys haven't obtained a date with the girl. BB has. I'd say his chances are greater than that. I remember people making prediction on my relationship. They predicted my wife wouldn't marry me and when she did, they predicted she will leave me after getting the green card. After she got the green card, they predicted she would leave me when she got citizenship. When she got citizenship, they predicted she will leave me after sponsoring her mother. There's a lot of a lot of relationship experts here that refuse to believe they are wrong so they continue with predictions until they are right.
Sorry my stubble just couldn't compete the girl has an obvious beard fetish! You should ask what happened to the beards of the other guys she dated, she may collect them ;DWhen it comes down to it, don’t all women have an agenda?
I think a lot of guys myself included look out for potential warning signs on here. Not really personal to you, some girls are straight up & some devious or on their own agenda. A newbie will take a lot for granted including any explanations, I did. However over time you realise to look for the written & spoken nuances that can convey the girl's intent. I missed a fair few of these as I hadn't the experience at the time of FSU dating. However, none of the girls I met were bad girls but I think at least some of them had their own agenda, I just didn't fit with it.
It's not really possible to say what's the game here, not for me at least. She may be straight up but many UW have an agenda though sometimes somewhat benign.
I think you earn quite a lot of money, sure you may know others that dwarf your income. For Ukraine though $100-300k a year even with the odd leaner year is a fortune. You can easily dwarf the richer Ukrainians out there on that income and there are not many of them. Apparently most of the wealth has been stripped out off Ukraine over the last few decades and the little that remains is the final remnants off it.
If she had a restaurant that was run into the ground she may not have as much wealth as you think. She make out she has a lot but might not have that much. I would proceed and go meet this girl in person as soon as you can. Spend some time with her and really get to know her. Be careful what you are giving away about yourself in the process also. Either way she sounds like a interesting personality to meet.
When it comes down to it, don’t all women have an agenda?
True many/nearly all will have an agenda. Some will be quite benign as wanting kids or companionship. Often I think their agenda stretches to other areas of their own personal interest. This may or may not include you in their long term plans. That said while a lot of UW are street smart I think some just want what they want and are fairly simple in outlook. Be cautious of being played as part of agenda on their part though whilst trying not being too suspicious of her activity unless distinct tell tell signs are there.It sounds like we are pretty much on the same page on this.
I think the trick is to find a girl who is into you so her agenda whatever it was to start with generally takes back seat. That's what I'm hoping for on my next attempt at this with a bit of luck.
I think Krimster has a valid point about the odds of meeting an oligarchs daughter. Sure an oligarchs daughter would likey want to find at least a reasonably wealthy guy but the chances of meeting one online set against all the many poor girls out there??? Can't be high.
I'm not sure about her walking away from the restaurant if she was part of an oligarch's family either. Possibly she might only be semi wealthy out there. I think in Ukraine any sort of wealth would make a local a target unless they were ruthless enough to be able to protect it they would be easy prey. Most Ukrainians are pretty poor out there as a rule of thumb.
Easy to be suspicious but my suspicion would be if this girl is getting guys to finance her trips in some manner. Could be wrong, like I say I think this one is interesting enough for you to play along and find out if she is the real deal.
What kind of gift do you suggest then?
See’s Candy?
you might as well go with a Pez Dispenser, actually think it’d be better IMHO...
I bet you have no idea how difficult it can be buying Pez in Ukraine
but it's not easy, let me tell you
I remember this one time ....
never mind, gotta go!!!
diamonds are a girl's best friend!
either play your "A" game or stay home...
a grand gesture
actually has to be grand!
but don't give her the jewelry right away...
wait for that "special moment"
best bet
get her clothing sizes (yes, ask her!)
convert the metric UA to US sizes
get the best cashmere sweater
you can buy in her size
ask about her clothing preferences, colors, etc
go fo the Pez
you don't think UA women like diamonds?
you pronounce it "brillante" in Russian
learn color, clarity, cut, carats
see pic below, typical reaction of UA woman to diamonds!!!
Did you ever wonder if you were being used at all when she raised these topics with you Billy and that she might dump you after it was all done?
I got some simple gifts like Sees candy and such. So whats the etiquette? Do I wrap this stuff and have a card, or do I just give it to her (I also got something for the parents, just in case).
In my case BB I go for flowers, there the standard staple to give a FSW. Now your unlikely to be able to get them there as she's meeting you at the airport isn't she. So I would get some within 24hrs before leaving, stuff them in your suitcase and hope for the best. Either go for a bunch - odd numbers - or just one. If you're goimg back to her place/your place in a taxi then a bunch is fine. If there is any strolling around involved then just one rose works a treat, much more convenient for her to cart around.:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Red is the standard safe bet for rose colour. In my opinion different colours i.e in her favourite colour doesn't tend to yield any better results. Also if she's not into you then no rose or attentative to colour will help you out I find.
Gifts are fine with a visit like yours but don't thrust it all on her at arrivals, just the flower(s) will do. Otherwise it can be pretty awkward and lacking in grace/sophistication. More so if her accomodation is not close at hand. The gift you want to have maximum effect. Plus I've learnt that of the girl is not into you its a waste to give her a gift/expensive gift. You could even take an expensive one & and cheaper one, and give her the cheaper one if its looking more like a friends thing ;D Keep the expensive one back for a refund or visit to another girl. Similarly if you're not getting on at all then no need bothering giving her a gift. Judge it as it goes & give her a good few hours at least as time in which she has the option of bailing.
Keeping a gift back from a general 'we got on ok' date means forgoing the bother of getting another gift next time as odds are you'll never see her again. Just do the same again with next girl until you meet a girl worthy of gift giving :D
Mr. Beard,
Don't cater to Krimster. He overplays everything on this forum. As stated before, don't go overboard on the first meeting. If you want to buy your woman diamonds down the road, feel free. But the first trip is always to see if there is chemistry.
Krimster is advocating giving gifts for the role of legsplitter.
I don't think you need that. Your place in life and what you want from a woman indicates that if the woman likes you for what you buy her, you will not find what you are looking for.
I was asked by my woman not to post any more pictures of her on here. But she is an exceptional looking woman and very sweet and giving. I did not have to win her over with expensive gifts. You shouldn't have to either. Find the woman who is going to be with you in good times and bad. To me, that means that your gifts should not be a bribe, but an acknowledgement that you treasure your meeting.
I think a box of condoms that are all different colors would make any gal pretty happy as a present. With different colors, one is sure to match her underwear on any given day.Well, duh! I am bringing that already.
And this gift shows you are considerate, especially if there are enough to have some left over after you are gone.
When it comes down to it, don’t all women have an agenda?
I am constantly trying to demonstrate to this girl what my standard of living is like. Since she lived in Switzerland part time, she seems to have a better understanding that $100 does not go as far in some countries as it does in Ukraine. For example, she goes to this restaurant where she can get a large sushi roll for about $3. I told her that same roll will be $15-$18 here. I have taken her with me on virtual shopping trips so she can get a better idea how expensive it is to live here.
,,,,,, I want a girl to feel confident I can take care of her, but don’t want her to expect massive wealth.
Well, duh! I am bringing that already.
Except I’m bringing any unused ones home with me.
If the girl is used to guys buying her expensive gifts, I want to be the opposite of that. I want to discourage any women who may be interested in me for financial reasons.
Let things flow naturally and see how she shows you her city. If she takes you into expensive shops and ask you to buy her things, she's not a keeper. My wife never asked me to buy her anything when I visited her. A woman with good manners will not ask a guy she just met to buy her something.
you guys don’t get IT AT ALL!!!
it’s NOT ABOUT you buying her with a candy bar, no, no, no....
it’s about demonstrating that you’re comfortable making these kind of luxury purchases for her!!!!!
cuz news flash, despite what YOU’RE thinking, SHE’S TOTALLY thinking this way!!!
The bottom line is she doesn’t want me buying her Sh*t. cause they all have special meaning...
Candy is looking better and better...
"Of course, if you are Krimster, you're used to paying for sleeping with women. Sorry, Krim, but that is the reputation you have on this forum."
no offense taken
because I acknowledge the fact that ALL men MUST pay for sex in one form or another...
married men typically pay the most
What a nutty thread. BB, you went from an alleged raging serial dating Casanova to the typical MOBer. You need to chill a bit man. You’re talking about jewelry for someone you haven’t met?Thanks for the reality check. I needed that slap upside the head.
I thought better of you, man.
Thoughts of this gal is sitting way too long in your mind. Nothing wrong with wovo but living life with someone through imagined expectations is absurd. Take your trip, meet the person and find out how both of you feel. There’s plenty of time to live you life after if it’s called for.
Sees candy is fine. Remember one thing about Slavs and their chocolates, they’ll check the cocoa content. So don’t make that a habit.
Relax man. Date like you said you can where you are. That’s all this is at this time. Likely will be a while.
Thanks for the reality check. I needed that slap upside the head.
Yes, I am overthinking this... As is said earlier, I had no intentions of giving any gifts originally. I would rather not even give the candy. It just not my style... but I don’t want to be culturally insensitive.
When I was “courting” my ex wives, I didn’t buy them Sh*t. In fact, I took my second wife out to dinner on her birthday when we were engaged. I completely forgot it was her birthday. She kept expecting me to pull out a present all night. It never happened. The next day she questioned me about it. All she got from me for her birthday was an “oops, sorry!”. It didn’t stop her from marrying me a month later....
I guess I’m just really hoping to get out of this dating rut I am in. I know it’s going to be hard to be abstinent at home if I meet miss perfect over there. As much as I like this UW, I didn’t hesitate for a minute to sleep with another girl earlier today... hopefully I would have a little more self control if we were actually dating. I want something with more substance....
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
You should write a book Trench. You could title it, ‘The Clueless Cheapskates Guide to Dating a FSUW.’
That is a thread title that needs doing ie
‘The Clueless Cheapskates Guide to Dating a FSUW.’ via Trenchcoat
If you don't --I will !!
Seriously -- I wrote in thread of what to buy ( ie next to nothing) for first meeting . I note the op has ignored that --instead he listens to some truly clueless ( Trenchcoat)and near clueless (BillyB) and some ridiculous ( the K) comments for info.
I make no claim on knowing everything or suggesting there is only one way to do anything --BUT -- giving much credence to a guy with next to zero time on the ground ( trench = what ?6 days of failure?) and guys who make ridiculous bragging claims from a yesteryear etc etc --compared with my average of well over 100 days a year in Ukraine over some years( quite a few in fact) etc etc
A few facts-- there is very little I can think of not available to buy in Ukraine -get your head around that.The last 24 hours-- the shops have been packed-- and i mean incredibly busy everywhere you turn --put that in the Trenchcoat pipe and smoke it !!
This in not the 1990's where girls did try and escape-- and tried to find a meal ticket to feed her family-- those days are long gone now.Unless guys are big city savvy & cool ( ie interesting)-- chances are Ukrainian girls are going to be out of bounds for them . FULL STOP. Now that applies to a guy in a decent age range --if older and a bigger age gap-- a guy will really need something going for him.
If you have Trenchcoat type cheap in your head and are going to quibble over every cent you spend -- forget it -- you are wasting your time . FULL STOP
Today above -I just read the height of ridiculous -- ie buying flowers to carry on an airplane LoL -too stupid for words.
For you K man --advice to buy jewelery to a guy that has never met the girl --is ridiculous. FULL STOP
The OP is in the barely know her category --
OK, due to the fact, that most of the readers of this board are uncultured hillbillys
I should explain the Krimster Jewelry Policy in the context of a first date meeting
and yes the Krimster Jewelry Policy does have MULTIPLE contexts
you keep the jewelry for “later”
I always plan for success by the way
have never known failure in Ukraine
a total inventory of gifts would include from the following:
1. tea/coffee sampler set
2. handmade soap and beeswax candles from my hometown
3. if it’s winter - fur lined leather gloves in her size
4. cashmere sweater (highest quality in her size and color)
5. gold/platinum necklace or diamond+saphires
you begin with the simplest, and then as your relationship progress you keep surprising her with gifts, it’s the surprise part that’s also important!
on the evening that the two of you are going to have sex for the first time, you give her the necklace during dinner
OK, all ist klar?
you guys seem to predicate everything being based on a failed outcome...
this NEVER happened to ME in Ukraine even with women 20 yr younger than me!
NEVER! NOT ONCE!
and why I always planned for success there
and also why I’m totally baffled by guys who have struck out there.
I note above --Trenchcoat thinks he knows better -- for anyone else here who has been in Ukraine this last few days-- please -- spell out what I was alluding too. The shopping centres are packed,the markets are jumping ( -4C outside today) -- and specifically for TC-- queues at cash registers 10 deep !! And TC still thinks he is an oligarch compared to people in Ukraine !!
Krim, is it ok if I substitute an expensive diamond necklace for a cheap but no less impressive Zirconia necklace in this enterprise?
I would off course make out it was a real expensive diamond necklace :D I'm pretty sure most would be none the wiser!
Krim, is it ok if I substitute an expensive diamond necklace for a cheap but no less impressive Zirconia necklace in this enterprise? :thumbsup:
I would off course make out it was a real expensive diamond necklace. I'm pretty sure most would be none the wiser! ;D
It's hard to pick Trenches humor. He needs to utilize emoji's better.
Jay in a city like Kiev of near 3 million people sure a few thousand even in bad times will have money to go shop a little bit. They will buy the odd few items. This is not the majority though. Both Donna Pedro & Krimster have told you that most Ukrainians are poor in general. Statistics, news reports and girls I have met have backed this up.
I know there was a time about a decade ago when we in thd west hit recession due to the credit crunch, etc. At that point many in the west weren't doing too well and Ukrainians by comparison weren't doing too badly. Since then their economy has crashed, civil war has erupted, inflation had gone up - they are back towards the bad old days of the nineties. Meanwhile much off western society is now getting on quite decently compared to credit crunch times of a decade ago.
A decade ago people I remember on here were saying the same thing as you now are - that Ukrainians are now quite wealthy and live a comparable life to us. They may have done for a while but now I'm pretty sure matters have returned most of them to a poor life style.
jayh
would you like cheese to go along with that WHINE of yours?
what you’re observing in kyiv is not new
I used to shop at walmart type stores in kyiv in the early 2000s and even been in the “Tiplitsa”
I hated shopping for things like furniture in Ukraine
only shopping I liked was in the outdoor markets like Kurazh Bazar
but these are just trendy little details
regarding the degree that western commercialization has penetrated Ukraine
if you look at the underlying economic advantage WMs have in Ukraine
then nothing has really changed very significantly in the last 10 years
search on Google for
ukraine gdp per capita 2017
and you’ll see that Ukraine is at the same spot it was 10 yr ago
whereas in a really swell country like the USA it has increased by 25% during this same period
ergo, economic advantage of WMs is INCREASING
Ukraine economy is going to take a BIG hit in 2019 when NorthStream opens
Kyiv is a helluva lot different than the rest of the country.Further, the center of Kyiv is different to the rest of the country. It's almost like comparing the City of London to the rest of the UK.
Kyiv is a helluva lot different than the rest of the country.
BB, you are headed to Kyiv and will stay there, correct? The latest news is martial law to be implemented in territories bordering Russia, the Azov Sea and Black Sea.Yea... I just boarded to plane. This should be interesting. Maybe I’ll run into you in Kiev or Poltava...lol. The duchess’ family owns a hotel in Poltava. We may go there for the weekend if everything works out....
I am flying back to Kyiv tomorrow. Then 2 days in Poltava Oblast, then on to....Donetsk Oblast. Fun.
...
Seriously though.. how bad can martial law be? I once lived in a country that was occupied by a foreign military and it wasn’t bad... but, then again... I was the foreign military...
Seriously though.. how bad can martial law be?
BB, you are headed to Kyiv and will stay there, correct? The latest news is martial law to be implemented in territories bordering Russia, the Azov Sea and Black Sea.
I am flying back to Kyiv tomorrow. Then 2 days in Poltava Oblast, then on to....Donetsk Oblast. Fun.
BB, you are headed to Kyiv and will stay there, correct? The latest news is martial law to be implemented in territories bordering Russia, the Azov Sea and Black Sea.
I am flying back to Kyiv tomorrow. Then 2 days in Poltava Oblast, then on to....Donetsk Oblast. Fun.
Right,
An American going to the Donetsk Oblast. Have you watched the Vice News episode whereby the reporter gets hauled off to someone's basement? Have you really thought this through? Donetsk is ruled by a bunch of thugs right now.
I’ll be in Donetsk Oblast, on the Ukrainian side, not Donetsk, and not (hopefully) near the border.
BB, perhaps we can meet, but I think you'll be at KBP airport? We will arrive at Zhuliany at 16:30 from Bratislava.
Good luck and safe journeys! Do write a TR if you get a chance.
:rolleyes:
Seriously, have a nice and safe trip! Eyes wide open, baby!
If you're interested, do write a trip report, sans any details you may want to skip...Also, you can write a T/R void of any responses here, if you so desire...
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?board=60.0
Maybe it’s not a good deal here, but I hired a guy to be my personal driver for $20 an hour.It's not a deal, it's a rip off. Just use Uber whenever you need to travel, or get around on foot/metro (8UAH per trip ~ 30 cents).
Think the beard advice is just a playing if safe thing , it's probably not a deal breaker for many women if the right guy has one I'm thinking.I met these girls on fdating and UkraineDate. Many of them are willing to give out their phone number after one or two exchanges.
Where are you sourcing your girls from BB? You seem to be bringing them up pretty quick. Are you still considering meeting the 'duchess' who you had planned to meet tomorrow?
I met these girls on fdating and UkraineDate. Many of them are willing to give out their phone number after one or two exchanges.
I haven’t decided on the dutchess yet! Her plane will be landing in five hours...
So--back to the thread title and what you are telling girls?
and it’s 100% true...(http://i.imgflip.com/1m5k7r.jpg) (http://imgflip.com/i/1m5k7r)
Seriously though.. how bad can martial law be? I once lived in a country that was occupied
by a foreign military and it wasn’t bad... but, then again... I was the foreign military...
I tell them.. “I met this girl online and I thought we really had a connection, so I bought a plane ticket and made plans to see her. Unfortunately, after a lot of talking I discovered that it wasn’t going to work out with her. I already purchased my plane ticket, so I decided to go to Ukraine anyway, even though I’m not going to see anyone in particular anymore. If you are free during the next few days, I would love to meet you”
It works like a charm, and it’s 100% true... I guess after pages and pages of discussion in this thread, I finally answered my own question!
In my opinion, you've volunteered too much information too early. This is about her not the
previous girl. That is an excellent thing to say after she brings it up.
How about this instead:
I saw your photo and was captivated by your smile, I want to meet you for coffee to
see if I can make you smile even more.
Pishi!
The Brown Bearded One
Sorry Bill...I kinda like what BB said although I agree it was too verbose...I know it sounds a but verbose, but... this was a refinement after a few tries. With shorter answers, there were always too many follow up questions. This answer seemed to shut the girls up. Also, I was using this explanation before I even got here. This “line” is much better than the alternative. Can you imagine telling a girl you are coming to Ukraine to see her for a week after chatting with her for five minutes? That would make you look like a nutcase!
If asked, why not just be straight.
If the following question is - 'Why are you in Ukraine?' - 'I have an opportunity to be in Ukraine and would like to meet people and explore further opportunity to possibly meet someone whom I can have a mutual interest with to pursue possible lasting relationship with.'
"Is that the only reason why you came to Ukraine"?: If the reason is such, then just respond 'yes'. If not, 'say it didn't work out with a gal I met online. It isn't a loss. We were just not compatible. This is reality.'
'Does this means you'll meet someone else besides me?'. 'That depends in how we spent the next few moments together.'
Then just look directly at her. If she fussed, end the drama. She ain't the one. Be gracious.
Maybe I'm stealing thunder from your (potential) trip report. But I'm trying to figure out if you ever met the gal who's family seemed like the mafia. The one that was on a short vacation prior to meeting you?
Sorry Bill...I kinda like what BB said although I agree it was too verbose...
If asked, why not just be straight.
If the following question is - 'Why are you in Ukraine?' - 'I have an opportunity to be in Ukraine and would like to meet people and explore further opportunity to possibly meet someone whom I can have a mutual interest with to pursue possible lasting relationship with.'
Yes, I agree absolutely, it's an excellent answer when asked.Every man has his own style. This worked for me. It helped weed out girls who may have an issue with this and went straight to a date with others.
I wouldn't volunteer explaining why you are there in the initial contact. In the initial contact I would
make it all about the girl you are contacting and nothing else.
Of course now you need to know you’re about to be elevated to what is known in the world of MOB as the ‘One Week Wonder’.Too funny!
I was set to meet her on Wednesday, but I ended up hooking up with a different girl on Tuesday night, so I sent the rich girl a very nice thanks, but no thanks letter. She took it well.
Interesting turn of events. The girl that was worth travelling thousands of miles for is now a girl now worth seeing. Time will tell if the girl you're currently seeing is perfect or maybe another girl will come along and make you forget about this one.She had to go to work today, but she is coming over tonight (of course).
She had to go to work today, but she is coming over tonight (of course).
She just sent me a text telling me her mother and grandmother both want to meet me. I’m guessing that is a good sign!?
She had to go to work today, but she is coming over tonight (of course).
She just sent me a text telling me her mother and grandmother both want to meet me. I’m guessing that is a good sign!?
Given the beard she may be lining you up for babushka !Believe it or not, the girl says she doesn’t want babushka!
Definitely a good sign if you want to get serious with the girl. Be a gentleman and treat mom and grandma with respect and they'll love you. Buy gifts store showing up and offer your hand for a handshake. Use both your hands to shake their one. It's better that way.I already had her give a box of chocolates to each of them on my behalf. I guess that made a good impression!
Believe it or not, the girl says she doesn’t want babushka!
Believe it or not, the girl says she doesn’t want babushka!
First, I’m trying to figure out if people on this forum are out of touch or were just f***ing with me on the beard thing. As a beard owner, I couldn’t help but notice beards are just as popular in Kiev as they are in the US... maybe even more popular... and a lot of these guys with beards had cute girlfriends too. “Nuf said.
Too funny!
This reminds me of when I graduated from Aiborne school in the Army.
I was proud for about 2 minutes... then was reminded I was just a “Five Jump Chump”
I’m sure by the time I could possibly earn any “street cred” around here, forums won’t even exist anymore.
It doesn’t matter if you are remembering back about two years in Ukraine and Russia. I am here now... and you are conflating what is going on in Russia. I have no clue what they are doing there. I am specifically talking about Kyiv. Maybe nobody has a beard in Moscow or Odessa or Lviv... I can only speak for Kyiv.
I recently returned from 2 months in Russia and Ukraine, with half that time spent in Kyiv. I don't think you are correct on the beards. I saw a lot of unshaven men but relatively few with beards (other than priests and monks), far less than among hipsters here. Most of the bearded men I saw were foreigners.
If you find the girl on the first Trip then that's great. A one week wonder is a guy who meets
a girl in a week and then marries her. So don't do that, if you think she might be the girl
schedule another trip to go see her. Continue being cautiously optimistic and keep moving
things forward.
I visited Angel Eyes 4 times in Russia and she came to see me twice and then I married her
instead of sending her home.
Udachi!
Bill
...I have this little game I play when I am walking around... When I see a man with a beard, I say to myself “one” and then I count every unshaven man I see and see how high I can count until I see another man with a beard. I have only gotten to ten twice. I have done this in neighborhoods far away from the touristy places like the City Center. I would have to say that I pay WAAAAY more attention to this than anyone else. I am not just making a casual observation. I am actually counting... and I have not seen a single person I thought was a priest or monk... these are young guys with beautiful women hanging off their arms. It is so blaringly obvious that the people on this forum are dead wrong about the beard situation, that I wanted to start taking pictures or videos of people just to post on here... but whatever... be wrong, I don’t give a crap. If I showed you video, people would make more excuses as to why the video is wrong. How about this... watch Ukrainian TV... look at Ukrainian ads... men have beards... I have a beard and I got the girl... and I had over a dozen backups who wanted to meet me... and they knew about the beard.
I would have to say that I pay WAAAAY more attention to this than anyone else.You are familiar with the Baader–Meinhof phenomenon, yes? Though it is likely to cause you cognitive dissonance.
It doesn’t matter if you are remembering back about two years in Ukraine and Russia. I am here now... and you are conflating what is going on in Russia. I have no clue what they are doing there. I am specifically talking about Kyiv. Maybe nobody has a beard in Moscow or Odessa or Lviv... I can only speak for Kyiv.
I have this little game I play when I am walking around... When I see a man with a beard, I say to myself “one” and then I count every unshaven man I see and see how high I can count until I see another man with a beard. I have only gotten to ten twice. I have done this in neighborhoods far away from the touristy places like the City Center. I would have to say that I pay WAAAAY more attention to this than anyone else. I am not just making a casual observation. I am actually counting... and I have not seen a single person I thought was a priest or monk... these are young guys with beautiful women hanging off their arms. It is so blaringly obvious that the people on this forum are dead wrong about the beard situation, that I wanted to start taking pictures or videos of people just to post on here... but whatever... be wrong, I don’t give a crap. If I showed you video, people would make more excuses as to why the video is wrong. How about this... watch Ukrainian TV... look at Ukrainian ads... men have beards... I have a beard and I got the girl... and I had over a dozen backups who wanted to meet me... and they knew about the beard.
You are familiar with the Baader–Meinhof phenomenon, yes? Though it is likely to cause you cognitive dissonance.Great article. I think some folks on here should take a look in the mirror and consider this. I did... that’s why I started actually counting every man I saw. Who else can make that claim? And, as predicted... I knew someone would say I went to the wrong neighborhoods. I have stayed in two neighborhoods by girls I met ahead of time. There are no tourists here... no attractions... just mostly working class Ukrainians.
http://www.gravityideas.com/thinking/frequency-illusion
Good luck with your relationship but you are blinded by cognitive bias. If you type "ukraine male model" into a Google image search you'll see what is common.
I was once mistaken for a priest on a train, partly because I had a beard at the time. Sadly no donations were forthcoming.
It doesn’t matter if you are remembering back about two years in Ukraine and Russia. I am here now... and you are conflating what is going on in Russia.
BB-
Doesn't really matter who is wrong, right or whatever regarding your beard. You already made the point you're sticking to it so win/lose or draw, your call. Move on from that regardless what other people say about it.
Just have fun out there...don't mind any of us on the board for a while... :devil:
Great article. I think some folks on here should take a look in the mirror and consider this. I did... that’s why I started actually counting every man I saw. Who else can make that claim?I don't think you read the article or comprehended the content. Because you were consciously looking for men with beards you saw them. It's a cognitive bias. If you think about orange cars you'll start seeing them everywhere.
I know it’s futile trying to change anyone’s mind on this... just like they will find evidence to support that I don’t have a chance with Ukrainian women, based on my beard and personality.... Fortunately, the sexy, 25 year old Ukrainian girl with two graduate degrees who was in my bed less than eight hours after I entered the country, would say differently.
So you met a girl approximately half your age, in an economically depressed country in a state of war, and, within 8 hours of first laying eyes on each other, she had hopped into your bed. And you consider her marriage material. At least we know why she didn't wish to introduce you to babushka.
So what are you saying is the score here Boe?
She even offered to pay for lunch at the end. When she reached in her wallet for money, I couldn’t help but notice a fat stack of crisp $100 bills next to her Ukrainian money.
You didn't let her pay did you? Never let a woman pay for the meal.Of course not!
My trip report is pending, but I thought I would close the loop on the whole saga with the duchess.
She sent me a text asking how it was going with the other girl on Friday afternoon. I told her “ok” and then asked her if she could go to the front desk if her apartment later on because I got her a couple gifts that I still wanted to give to her. Since we were staying in the same apartment building, I figured I could just drop it off.
She suggested that I just give it to her in person, then invited me to lunch at a place right by the apartment. The girl I was seeing had to work late and wouldn’t be by until 9:00 pm, so I figured, “Why not?”
So, when I entered the cafe, she was on the phone and put up her finger as to say “Just a minute”, so I sat there for five minutes while she finished. She probably did it as payback for cancelling on her.
Anyway, she was drop dead gorgeous, just like her pictures. She wore very nice clothes.. she had a mink coat and three rings with very large diamonds. We had a great conversation and her English was much better than expected. I really thought she was going to be a snobby primadonna, but she was very sweet and soft spoken... she was a class act. She even offered to pay for lunch at the end. When she reached in her wallet for money, I couldn’t help but notice a fat stack of crisp $100 bills next to her Ukrainian money.
There is a mall and grocery store next to the apartments and she had some shopping to do, so she asked if I wanted to walk with her. I had nowhere to be, so I agreed. We spent a couple hours at the grocery store and some other stores. She was really enjoyable to be with. Again, very classy.
We finally finished and I walked her to her apartment entrance (she was one entrance away from me). I have her a hug and said goodbye.
Ten minutes after I was back in my apartment, she sends me a text laughing because she forgot to get bottled water at the convenience store attached to out apartment. I asked her if she wanted me to walk with her again to go get it. She said no, and asked if I wouldn’t mind picking it up and bringing it back to her apartment. I agreed.
I was really impressed with her apartment. The furniture was beautiful, as was the wallpaper and very nice woodwork and custom cabinetry. She had some nice kitchen gadgets... her espresso maker is like $1,000 in the US (I almost bought the same one last year).
Anyway, in return for bringing her water, she cooked up a batch of this warm wine with fruit and spices (I forget what it is called). We drank the wine together and she also fed me this dish she made with cheese and raisins.
We were enjoying the conversation so much that she offered to make another batch of wine. We drank that and she started giving me “advice” about how this other girl is all wrong for me and how I need a real woman. She then told me she also had a date at 9 pm. She showed me a picture of the guy and asked to see my date. I refused and she got upset... I was too nervous about her approaching this girl outside the apartment.
I finished my wine and saw it was getting close to 9 pm, so I told her I had to go. She walked down with me (said she needed something at the store). I suspect she wanted to see the competition...
She sent me a couple texts after that, but I never saw her again...
If anyone is looking to meet a beautiful, classy rich girl, I know one in Ukraine...
Anyway, in return for bringing her water, she cooked up a batch of this warm wine with fruit and spices (I forget what it is called). We drank the wine together and she also fed me this dish she made with cheese and raisins.
The drink was probably Ukrainian Kompot or Compote and it is non-alcoholic.
The cheese was Syrniki which is like Farmer's cheese in USA (but not easy to find) and a cousin of Ricotta cheese.
<snip>...Anyway, she was drop dead gorgeous, just like her pictures....
She even offered to pay for lunch at the end. When she reached in her wallet for money, I couldn’t help but notice a fat stack of crisp $100 bills next to her Ukrainian money...
If anyone is looking to meet a beautiful, classy rich girl, I know one in Ukraine...
The drink was probably Ukrainian Kompot or Compote and it is non-alcoholic.
The cheese was Syrniki which is like Farmer's cheese in USA (but not easy to find) and a cousin of Ricotta cheese.
I can't remember the name either.Nightwish is correct, it’s glintvein (глинтвейн), commonly referred to as glint (глинт).
We drank that and she started giving me “advice” about how this other girl is all wrong for me and how I need a real woman. She then told me she also had a date at 9 pm. She showed me a picture of the guy and asked to see my date. I refused and she got upset... I was too nervous about her approaching this girl outside the apartment.
I finished my wine and saw it was getting close to 9 pm, so I told her I had to go. She walked down with me (said she needed something at the store). I suspect she wanted to see the competition...
Nightwish is correct, it’s glintvein (глинтвейн), commonly referred to as glint (глинт).She used dry red wine and added honey and sugar.
It's always made with a sweet wine (I've seen port and muscat used), and is lit on fire the first time, before drinking, At parties, at some point, someone will pour a bottle of vodka into it, surreptitiously.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
It’s still glint.
Either:
(a) she couldn’t find the proper wine and hence, used a cheap dry wine which she enhanced; or
(b) she’s a hick.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
When I make mulled wine I use Franzia, $4 per liter. They will sell no wine before it's time...to get packed in a box.Franzia is some pretty gross stuff. I don’t even know if they can legally call it wine. My ex wife used to mix it with Sprite to make wine coolers... cheaper than Bartles & Jaymes I guess! It looks like you found another way to make it drinkable.
Mulled wines (glintvein in the FSU, known by other names in other countries), which is what you were served, is generally made with cheap wine because the spices and fruits added mean the undertones, the body, of a good wine, will be lost. The best wines to use for glint are fruity and unoaked.
Buying an expensive wine for glint is to show off, and in Ukraine, that screams hick.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
I don't think I ever found a good wine in the FSU, so too cant understand using a good Italian wine for glint. I found good Champagne, beer and Vodka, but never a good wine. And don't get me started on Moldovan and Rumanian wines, I would rather drink cough syrup
They make good beer and wine in Kuban and Georgia but 'Champagne' ? .....The climate's not right, surely ?
May be I truly am a 'snob' [ ;) ] but as an ol' git .. it ( Shampanskoye) reminds me of Babycham
and What ever happened to THAT ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBthQyw7gkE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBthQyw7gkE)
:puke:
I guess people wanted a follow up?!
It's funny how my options were to fail miserably or be so pathetic that I stay with the first girl I meet, so I guess it doesn't matter what I say because people will use it as an excuse to insult me.
Well, to those who have been helpful, I appreciate you very much. I spoke extensively with many women, I ended up meeting two of them and I am dating one of those two. I think it's important to note that these are not the first two women I have ever gone out with, just in Ukraine. The girl I am with is thin, beautiful, smart, has two graduate degrees, and I enjoys lots of sex, just like me... Maybe thats because she is 25, but I guess maybe time will tell.
After I left Kyiv in early December, we continued to talk every day. We ended up spending a week in Paris together for New Years. She paid her own way so she wouldn't feel like she was using me. We came back to Kyiv and got an apartment together for two weeks (hers is under renovation and she has been living with her grandma). I leave for Amsterdam for in a couple days for a coupe months and then we will live together in her apartment for a couple weeks before I return to the US.
Life has already assumed a normal pace with us. I feel kind of like a normal married couple. She goes to work in the morning and I go to work on my computer. When she comes home, we have dinner and watch TV. Sometimes we go out, but we usually stay in. We split expenses equally (she insists). I met her grandmother a couple times and she absolutely loves me. She is always sending me home with food. I am supposed to meet her mom tonight. I am taking her mom and her mom's boyfriend out to dinner. This should be interesting. Her mom is my age... but her mom's boyfriend is 26, so they are obviously used to big age gaps in relationships.
Anyway... maybe I'll marry this woman... maybe I won't. I am enjoying our time together and seeing how things progress. It's certainly educational learning about cultural differences that I never knew from reading. I wish I had known certain things.... like when I made the mistake of sitting on the edge of the bed with my jeans. Nobody told me you have to wear a separate set of clothes in the home because anything worn outside instantly becomes "dirty" and "disgusting".
To all the noobs out there, the process gets much more fun once you get off the computer and are having sex with a hot 25 year old Ukrainian girl. Stick with it and ignore the **sholes. I am so glad I didn't let their BS get me down!
Peace
This really got me laughing, here it is exactly the same, I did the same mistake as you, and not to mention if I dare take one step inside the house with shoes on.. ohh that is punishable by death :D
I am happy you are having a good time with a good girl, you have the right outlook on this, enjoy the time together and time will tell if it will be you two or not.
and on a sidenote - the sex only gets better with age - so imagine how much you will love it when she is 35 :p
I guess people wanted a follow up?!
As for cultural differences, IMHO, always remember there's two people in these relationships. Two folks, two cultures.
Never allow one to dominate the other. Know when to compromise and know when to take a stand.
I will now get serious. RW will not readily give up their cultural habits, rituals and beliefs. It is best not to question the belief that ice in a drink, moving cool air, etc. will kill you. Overtime, the women will change. My stepdaughter now enjoys rare beef, so she orders "medium rare," yet acknowledges the risks of red meat as enumerated by my wife. One day, my wife may eat a medium rare steak.....perhaps 30 years from now.
The drink was probably Ukrainian Kompot or Compote and it is non-alcoholic.
The cheese was Syrniki which is like Farmer's cheese in USA (but not easy to find) and a cousin of Ricotta cheese.
...Overtime, the women will change...
I guess people wanted a follow up?!
It's funny how my options were to fail miserably or be so pathetic that I stay with the first girl I meet, so I guess it doesn't matter what I say because people will use it as an excuse to insult me.
Well, to those who have been helpful, I appreciate you very much. I spoke extensively with many women, I ended up meeting two of them and I am dating one of those two. I think it's important to note that these are not the first two women I have ever gone out with, just in Ukraine. The girl I am with is thin, beautiful, smart, has two graduate degrees, and I enjoys lots of sex, just like me... Maybe thats because she is 25, but I guess maybe time will tell.
After I left Kyiv in early December, we continued to talk every day. We ended up spending a week in Paris together for New Years. She paid her own way so she wouldn't feel like she was using me. We came back to Kyiv and got an apartment together for two weeks (hers is under renovation and she has been living with her grandma). I leave for Amsterdam for in a couple days for a coupe months and then we will live together in her apartment for a couple weeks before I return to the US.
Anyway... maybe I'll marry this woman... maybe I won't. I am enjoying our time together and seeing how things progress. It's certainly educational learning about cultural differences that I never knew from reading. I wish I had known certain things.... like when I made the mistake of sitting on the edge of the bed with my jeans. Nobody told me you have to wear a separate set of clothes in the home because anything worn outside instantly becomes "dirty" and "disgusting".
To all the noobs out there, the process gets much more fun once you get off the computer and are having sex with a hot 25 year old Ukrainian girl. Stick with it and ignore the **sholes. I am so glad I didn't let their BS get me down!
Peace
My ex got me into bed with her less than 6 hours after getting off the plane in the Philippines in 2007; geez, I was suckered bad.
I'm always dubious about women who jump straight into bed. In my experiences none have been marriage material...
I don't think this is totally true.When it is straight into bed + much older man + foreigner + with kids + beard + no prior exposure to local culture + no language skills + Ukrainian girl + in her mid 20s + girl has plenty of disposable income then dubious shouldn't be a surprising default position. Good luck to BB99, wish him the best, but smells of James saying how great Ukrainian girls are and how less likely they are to wander...
I am supposed to meet her mom tonight. I am taking her mom and her mom's boyfriend out to dinner. This should be interesting. Her mom is my age... but her mom's boyfriend is 26, so they are obviously used to big age gaps in relationships.
Ahhh, the shoe thing. Yea... I'm learning that one. When we arrived in our hotel room in Paris, I immediately started unpacking. After a couple minutes, I noticed she was just staring at me with this dirty look on her face. She finally said, "Could you please remove your shoes?" her words were nice, but with her tone, she might have well said, "Take your shoes off you damn pig!"
She is also REALLY anal about turning lights off. She freaks out if I leave a room without turning the lights off... even if I am going back to the room in 30 seconds. Once we were leaving the apartment and I had my boots all laced up and saw that I left a light on. I looked at her and wondered if it would be okay to leave the light on, just this once... or if I could tiptoe across the floor with my shoes to turn the light off... One look from her said it all... I unlaced my boots, took them off to walk five feet and turn off a stupid light....
I stumbed across this article on a completely unrelated website. What stood out was the following:
My ex got me into bed with her less than 6 hours after getting off the plane in the Philippines in 2007; geez, I was suckered bad.
http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/readers-submissions/2008/11/done-over-by-a-filipina-in-australia/
I'm always dubious about women who jump straight into bed. In my experiences none have been marriage material... замок, который можно открыть любым ключом, плохой замок!
I stumbed across this article on a completely unrelated website. What stood out was the following:
My ex got me into bed with her less than 6 hours after getting off the plane in the Philippines in 2007; geez, I was suckered bad.
http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/readers-submissions/2008/11/done-over-by-a-filipina-in-australia/
I'm always dubious about women who jump straight into bed. In my experiences none have been marriage material... замок, который можно открыть любым ключом, плохой замок!
I don't think this is totally true.
Depends on why the woman wants to get into bed with you (or any man) so soon.
At least two scenarios:
1) They are using sex to rope you in. This is the bad scenario and probably they are not good marriage material.
2) They have a really, really high sex drive for a female. Doesn't disqualify them as good marriage material. But of course could cause trouble down the road if the man isn't willing to satisfy her. And this doesn't mean he has to have standard intercourse and orgasms for himself at her same rate. Men have all sorts of tools they can use to please the woman sexually; most are unwilling to perform though.
There is little correlation between me and the guy in this story. First, I’m not a pathetic guy who can’t get a date back home. She didn’t rope me in with sex. I’m the one who initiated sex and I have sex on the first date about 25% of the time... not a big deal.
This girl is not some sex vixen... she is rather inexperienced sexually and has a lot to learn. Sex is not the centerpiece of our relationship. She is an attorney with the high council of justice of Ukraine. She works with the Supreme Court. She isn’t some slutty, desperate low life... if fact, she often goes back and forth about whether she is really prepared to leave everything for the US.. We have many heated debates and probably argue about things more than we should. We are currently having an argument right now... she translated a government website into English for work. I thought her wording was confusing and she’s mad that I insulted her work.
If she is some trickster trying to rope me in for a ticket to the US, she is doing an extremely shitty job of it. I enjoy the company and it’s nice having sex with a 25 year old where nothing is stretched out or sagging... but I can’t say I’m in love or anything.
You should probably know that being an 'attorney' is not the same thing in Ukraine as it is in the US.
Okay, so I think it’s about time I have an update... no it wasn’t happy ever after.
So this girl drinks a lot... at least a flask of whiskey every day.... sometimes half a liter. It really started getting to me. My last day in Kiev, she stayed at work late because she was getting drunk with her colleagues. She showed up two hours late for our last dinner together... so drunk she threw up. I flew to the Netherlands the next day and I decided to end things.
I was working in the Netherlands for the next three months, but already had booked a flight back to Kiev for 16 days before I flew to the US. While in the Netherlands, I started talking to another girl and planned on another WOVO trip.
I flew to Kiev March 30. She met me at the airport and we hit it off immediately. By the second day, she moved in with me in my apartment. Things were okay, but I found out she is I extremely emotionally immature (she is 25) and I knew things weren’t going to work. I broke things off after about a week in Kiev.
I went back on dating websites and started looking for someone new. I met a girl that same night. We met at this really cool speak easy called “Hendricks Bar”. She ended up spending the night. We went out the next night and she spent the night again. I asked her out a third time and she became busy all of the sudden. We had fun, but I don’t think she was serious about a relationship.
So now the money thing...
I met another girl online the next night and she asked for money for a taxi. I have always been against giving women cash for any reason, but I heard this is common in Ukraine, so I decided to do it. I guess it was a good decision, because she spent the night with me as well.
I started feeling like I was missing the point of going to Ukraine in the first place. I want a wife. I am not a sex tourist, but realized I was just hooking up with the party girls.
So... I met another girl online who asked for cab money. She picked a very expensive restaurant and ordered expensive dishes, wine, etc. I really started to feel used. Yes, she was gorgeous and she knew it... she was some kind of swimsuit model. She wanted to go for a walk after dinner and we ended up at Gulliver mall (after window shopping at Tiffany, YSL, etc).
At the mall, she said her lips were chapped but she forgot her lipstick... I offered to go to a makeup store to get some. She ended up getting some other things and in total it cost over €100. I knew she was taking advantage of me a little, but I just didn’t care at the time... then she took me to an electronics store. She asked me to buy her an iPhone XR. I laughed at first and then realized she was serious. When I told her no, she got really pissed off. She said I was “cheap” because I wouldn’t spend “a mere $1,000” on the first date. I ended the date shortly after, but she kept texting me for 24 hours, trying to convince me to buy her an iPhone.
Then I met my “dream girl”. She asks for stuff too, but not in a bratty, entitled way. I’m not sure where to draw the line. I could use some advice on how to handle this money thing with Ukrainian girls.
I met another girl online the next night and she asked for money for a taxi. I have always been against giving women cash for any reason, but I heard this is common in Ukraine, so I decided to do it. I guess it was a good decision, because she spent the night with me as well.
I started feeling like I was missing the point of going to Ukraine in the first place. I want a wife. I am not a sex tourist, but realized I was just hooking up with the party girls.
At the mall, she said her lips were chapped but she forgot her lipstick... I offered to go to a makeup store to get some. She ended up getting some other things and in total it cost over €100. .......I ended the date shortly after, but she kept texting me for 24 hours, trying to convince me to buy her an iPhone.
I flew to Kiev March 30. She met me at the airport and we hit it off immediately. By the second day, she moved in with me in my apartment. Things were okay, but I found out she is I extremely emotionally immature (she is 25) and I knew things weren’t going to work. I broke things off after about a week in Kiev.
I went back on dating websites and started looking for someone new. I met a girl that same night. We met at this really cool speak easy called “Hendricks Bar”. She ended up spending the night. We went out the next night and she spent the night again. I asked her out a third time and she became busy all of the sudden. We had fun, but I don’t think she was serious about a relationship.
Okay, so I think it’s about time I have an update... no it wasn’t happy ever after.I would advise you to spend time here on RWD because you have many things to learn, nothing wrong, that's called experience.
So this girl drinks a lot... at least a flask of whiskey every day.... sometimes half a liter. It really started getting to me. My last day in Kiev, she stayed at work late because she was getting drunk with her colleagues. She showed up two hours late for our last dinner together... so drunk she threw up. I flew to the Netherlands the next day and I decided to end things.
I was working in the Netherlands for the next three months, but already had booked a flight back to Kiev for 16 days before I flew to the US. While in the Netherlands, I started talking to another girl and planned on another WOVO trip.
I flew to Kiev March 30. She met me at the airport and we hit it off immediately. By the second day, she moved in with me in my apartment. Things were okay, but I found out she is I extremely emotionally immature (she is 25) and I knew things weren’t going to work. I broke things off after about a week in Kiev.
I went back on dating websites and started looking for someone new. I met a girl that same night. We met at this really cool speak easy called “Hendricks Bar”. She ended up spending the night. We went out the next night and she spent the night again. I asked her out a third time and she became busy all of the sudden. We had fun, but I don’t think she was serious about a relationship.
So now the money thing...
I met another girl online the next night and she asked for money for a taxi. I have always been against giving women cash for any reason, but I heard this is common in Ukraine, so I decided to do it. I guess it was a good decision, because she spent the night with me as well.
I started feeling like I was missing the point of going to Ukraine in the first place. I want a wife. I am not a sex tourist, but realized I was just hooking up with the party girls.
So... I met another girl online who asked for cab money. She picked a very expensive restaurant and ordered expensive dishes, wine, etc. I really started to feel used. Yes, she was gorgeous and she knew it... she was some kind of swimsuit model. She wanted to go for a walk after dinner and we ended up at Gulliver mall (after window shopping at Tiffany, YSL, etc).
At the mall, she said her lips were chapped but she forgot her lipstick... I offered to go to a makeup store to get some. She ended up getting some other things and in total it cost over €100. I knew she was taking advantage of me a little, but I just didn’t care at the time... then she took me to an electronics store. She asked me to buy her an iPhone XR. I laughed at first and then realized she was serious. When I told her no, she got really pissed off. She said I was “cheap” because I wouldn’t spend “a mere $1,000” on the first date. I ended the date shortly after, but she kept texting me for 24 hours, trying to convince me to buy her an iPhone.
Then I met my “dream girl”. She asks for stuff too, but not in a bratty, entitled way. I’m not sure where to draw the line. I could use some advice on how to handle this money thing with Ukrainian girls.
So this girl drinks a lot... at least a flask of whiskey every day.... sometimes half a liter. It really started getting to me. My last day in Kiev, she stayed at work late because she was getting drunk with her colleagues. She showed up two hours late for our last dinner together... so drunk she threw up. I flew to the Netherlands the next day and I decided to end things.
I flew to Kiev March 30. She met me at the airport and we hit it off immediately. By the
second day, she moved in with me in my apartment. Things were okay, but I found out
she is I extremely emotionally immature (she is 25) and I knew things weren’t going to
work. I broke things off after about a week in Kiev.
She ended up spending the night. We went out the next night and she spent the night again. I asked her out a third time and she became busy all of the sudden. We had fun, but I don’t
think she was serious about a relationship.
So now the money thing...
I met another girl online the next night and she asked for money for a taxi.
I was just hooking up with the party girls.
She picked a very expensive
Then I met my “dream girl”. She asks for stuff too, but not in a bratty, entitled way.
I’m not sure where to draw the line. I could use some advice on how to handle this
money thing with Ukrainian girls.
The taxi money is a MOB industry thing. . . . A good girl doesn't ask for money.
Lesson #1 Dump a girl as soon as you see a character flaw or discoverIn addition to this, always ask yourself the question - if this woman is so good why hasn't a local guy snapped her up? There's often a very good reason why UM shun them.
this is not the future Mrs _______________ (your name here)
Lesson #2 Don't chase 20 something girls.
If you are 30 then maybe 25 and up.
Lesson #3 Avoid prodaters by making your own arrangements, picking the venues,
pursuing girls outside the MOB hotbed and not opening your wallet to win over a girl.
In addition to this, always ask yourself the question - if this woman is so good why hasn't a local guy snapped her up? There's often a very good reason why UM shun them.
They would rather live alone and be independent ... It will take one lucky guy to get them to change their minds ..
I think it will be an 'unlucky' guy that gets them to give him a try.
I think it will be an 'unlucky' guy that gets them to give him a try.
it sounds so pragmatic...But if i had the same problem..I d choose only one man, the best one to meet him. But you have many coctacts of other ladies. So if something will be wrong, no any chemistry...You can go to spontaneous date with someone else