Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Starting Out => Topic started by: brownbeard99 on October 28, 2018, 09:28:08 PM

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on October 28, 2018, 09:28:08 PM
Okay, so I just got back in the game and I have been talking with a handful of women on WhatsApp.  This is feeling just like online dating in the US. I haven’t written any structured emails (as in the past). It’s all a bunch of short text conversations and phone calls.

I will be in Amsterdam for business for 10 weeks starting in January, so I thought I would fly into Kiev (from Chicago) a week or two early, then go to Amsterdam, then spend a week in Kiev before going home.

When I mentioned flying out to meet one girl, she freaked out and thought I was moving too fast. She calmed down when I told her I was flying to Europe anyway, and was just making a stop in Ukraine to meet her.  However, it got me thinking... I don’t know if I am ready to put all my eggs in one basket with one girl.

The problem is with the way I have been communicating daily with these girls.  They text at any given time asking “watcha doing?”  I have a lot of flexibility with my business, so I often answer when I am not busy. I actually enjoy the “interruption”.

So the problem is that I have been very transparent with everyone I talk to. I don’t advertise that I am talking to more than one girl, but they don’t ask.  I can’t claim to be traveling to Ukraine “on business” with no further explanation. They will ask a lot of specific questions (as these curious girls tend to do) and I don’t want to tell some elaborate lie.  I also don’t want to say “none of your business”, because that is not in my nature and it would raise a red flag because I am otherwise transparent.

I personally wouldn’t want to visit with a woman if I knew she was in a trip visiting a bunch of other guys, but visiting one just feels too high risk. I have dated online quite a bit in the US and more than once I have felt 100% sure I found a match made in heaven by talking and video chatting extensively before meeting, only to be disappointed when we actually met.

I really wish there was a way to mitigate the risk of just meeting one, but my experience is that there is no way to 100% predict what the chemistry will be like in person.

Any perspective on this is appreciated.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: DaveNY on October 28, 2018, 09:53:46 PM
brownbeard99 it's my understanding that some women that are EM or AFA or other brides sites are doing it just for fun. They really don't expect to meet anyone. How true it is and what percentage are on the sites for fun I don't know.

I've also been told that few men who join such sites will ever get on a plane and go to the FSU. So many women may hear this and figure they'll have a little fun and join since most sites don't charge women a fee.

I certainly believe you shouldn't just show up in her city unannounced. You should communicate with the woman and plan things out together. Just realize that she may be doing all this as a lark. Just realize that for some women this is all a game and they may have no interest in meeting you.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on October 28, 2018, 10:25:33 PM
Tell every girl you plan to visit that you're visiting them as a friend and that you're open to a serious relationship if you find the right woman. Don't make a commitment to anybody prior to a visit and since you don't have a commitment to anybody you shouldn't feel guilty dating multiple girls the same time.

When a girl asks if you're visiting any other girls on the trip, you tell them you have no girlfriend and you don't like to talk about other girls. Tell her you want to focus on only her at the moment. Even if a girl asks about your ex's tell them you don't talk about past women. The past is the past. If other girls are on your mind, many ladies will hold it against you that your mind is on another girl, not them. When they ask you tough questions, if you hesitate or look nervous, they'll think something is wrong with you and/or you're lying. If you're confident in your answers and act like you're doing nothing wrong, they'll accept it. Although many women want a man to be only theirs, they also want to know their man is in demand so tactfully giving them the impression other girls like you may make them work harder for you.

There were times I visited ladies and it didn't seem like a good match, I'd then go get dates off local dating sites. Some girls ask me why I visited their city. I tell them the truth. I came to their city to find love and didn't find it yet. Never had a problem with that answer.

I've had girls on the first date tell me they only date one man at a time and they require their man to date only them and if I want to date them again, I have to agree to it. I then ask the girl if they are ready to dedicate their life to me and only me. They always reply "no". I tell them since I have no commitment you, we're only friends and are free to date whoever we want. I tell them I know they are getting asked out a lot and they are free to date whoever they want and choose the best guy, it's their right and I'm not jealous. Except for one time, I always got a second date.

Don't be afraid to hurt people's feelings because most of those girls will drop you like a hot potato when a better man comes along. Like you, they are probably jockeying for the best mate. You have the right to find the best girl in your life and when you do, you will forget about all others.

A lot of men don't give themselves choices. Without a selection to choose from, they can't choose the best woman out of the lot. By visiting multiple women, you've increased your chances in finding a winner. Keep in mind, it's possible none of the girls you are visiting this will be a good match and you may need to do more searching.

Although you mentioned you're not doing emails like you did in the past, you can still use the tool to see how motivated some of the girls are to please you. Tell them you want to share your life in pictures and ask for their email. If they like you, they won't refuse your request. Send them the photos but don't request any of theirs. You'll find some girls, without asking, will send you a slug of photos of their life. You can get an understanding who is more "into you" over the others and who seems family orientated to the point you'll be proud to take home to mamma.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on October 29, 2018, 12:48:48 AM
Tried WM once - Never again

BillyB's advice assumes there's no emotion attached - there is ..  Let's be honest - we don't date to find friends .

Many women will simply not meet you - if they know you are on a VM trip

You may meet one with whom you click and you're over-running and the next date is calling - need that stress ?

Each to his own ;)







Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: MarinaSirena on October 29, 2018, 03:48:18 AM
it sounds so pragmatic...But if i had the same problem..I d choose only one man, the best one to meet him. But you have many coctacts of other ladies. So if something will be wrong, no any chemistry...You can go to spontaneous date with someone else
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on October 29, 2018, 05:45:21 AM
I was in Amsterdam in June
you’ll meet a bunch of UW/RW in Amsterdam
just go into any bar, and there they’ll be

Amsterdam is a party pickup hotspot
spring break on steroids
damned good place for you to practice your skills

I spent two years having Russian and Ukrainian girlfriends
BEFORE I decided to marry one
would recommend that approach

if you go in person, it IS NOT DIFFICULT to meet women in Ukraine AT ALL
in fact, many times I’ve had women approach me...
in can be as difficult as asking for directions, and then say, “thank you for your help, would you like a coffee” and then take it from there...
doesn’t sound difficult does it?
cuz, it’s not!

important to dress well, would lose the beard
learn as much Russian as possible
it's a blast! go have fun!
too bad you're going when it's so cold!

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Turboguy on October 29, 2018, 05:50:49 AM
If it were me I would be slightly concerned that she was afraid you were moving too fast and would think more about trying to meet more than one on the trip.  Most of my trips to meet one were pretty much a bust and the trips to meet more than one had at least one that stood out. 


My first question would be are they in the same city?   That can make it a little more tricky.  The other thing that can make it harder if they are in the same city is when they want to meet you at the airport. 


I would agree with Krimster, lose the facial hair.  Most RW seem to consider that a big turnoff. 
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on October 29, 2018, 06:02:01 AM
lose the beard


I would agree with Krimster, lose the facial hair.  Most RW seem to consider that a big turnoff. 


I did great with the ladies and I had a mustache. After winning my wife's hand she asked me to shave it off, something I haven't done in decades. She like me better with no facial hair. Even my sisters and mother said I look better. But you guys are right, most FSU women don't like facial hair and prefer their man to be shaved downstairs too.

I believe brownbeard mention in another thread he doesn't look good shaved. It may be too late to shave. The girls who already agreed to meet him have accepted his beard. Of course they could be like my wife and ask him shave it off after marriage.

BillyB's advice assumes there's no emotion attached


Emotions are always attached. One reason I said don't be afraid to hurt someone's feelings.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on October 29, 2018, 06:56:34 AM
it's not all "visual"
depends on the kind of stubble you have around your lips
a woman's skin is very sensitive in some areas
this stubble can produce a small abrasion
on the areas you are repeatedly kissing
and will be uncomfortable for the recipient
make the skin around your lips as smooth as a mirror
and you'll have no problem
all guys know this, right?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on October 29, 2018, 07:27:02 AM
Yes, I mentioned the facial hair in another thread...

As far as it irritating a woman’s skin, that is a universal issue, not just with FSU women, yet some women prefer it anyway.

As previously started, I have had two girlfriends who strongly preferred no facial hair. I shaved for the first one and she said “Don’t ever do that again”. She thought I went from “very attractive” to “homely” because of my genetic double chin.

When my Polish gf complained about my facial hair, I showed her a picture of myself clean shaven. She immediately decided that she would deal with her facial rash from kissing than to see me looking ugly without my beard.

In my experience it’s like  this: with a beard, fewer women want to date me, but there are still many attractive women in the mix.

Without a beard, more women want to date me, but very few of them are attractive because I look so damned ugly.

I know looks aren’t everything. I have dated women with great personalities all along the attractiveness spectrum. I would rather date a beautiful woman with a good personality than a plain women with a good personality.

Also, shaving irritates my skin and gives me a rash and skin problems.  When I was in the army, I had to deal with skin irritation and acne the entire time. Now I am free from those issues.  I guess if a woman can’t understand and accept me for who I am, I don’t need her.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on October 29, 2018, 07:54:23 AM
"When I was in the army, I had to deal with skin irritation and acne the entire time. "

yeah, had that issue as well in the Army
high alcohol content after-shave immediately after shaving eliminated that for me

after my discharge went straight to college and I grew a beard
chicks did not like it all, short lived experiment

never met a Russian woman who liked beards, and I lived there over 3 yr
but it's up to you, I can't say what you'd look like without it
but your appearance is VITALLY important
and has nothing to do with you being handsome or not handsome
you want to have the "image" of a successful upwardly mobile urban professional
and not a truck driver with an empty coke can for his "chaw"

when you go to Kyiv
would recommend renting an apartment in the Khreshchatyk area
plenty of stores, restaurants, banks, even the main post office are all within walking distance
this is where most things are located, it's "DownTown" Kyiv

learn some Russian phrases like
"I want to buy" yahachoo kopeet"
and then some nouns
beer is "piva"
learn about 2 dozen phrases, a list of nouns/verbs, count to 10 in Russian and you're all set
ignore anyone who talks about Ukrainian vrs Russian language

lose the attitude of "my way or the highway" with Ukrainian women
100% it'll be the highway
learn to compromise and negotiate
be a sympathetic empathetic person and LISTEN

and good luck
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GQBlues on October 29, 2018, 08:16:14 AM
Honesty is your best friend. Your 'come back' post implied you're a 'seasoned' social dude, so why be undecided now?

WMVM is suited for guys who knows and understand their way around women and how to properly relate socially. It should be instinctual. If you're not comfortable with yourself and lack confidence in handling pressure situation, I would suggest not going this route as you'll only resort to 'lying' (yes, anything short of 'honesty' IS lying).

IMHO, a) You cannot make the right choice, if you never have choices to make it from; b) A WMVM is just a WOVO waiting to happen; c) You cannot lose what you never had; d) Never abandon your wits and instincts.; e) Honesty is the seed to your confidence and attitude. Void of such, the loss of both.

I never wasted my time with the 'getting to know' stage prior to the trip. You have no idea (nor do the women with you) what or how things will be when you meet in person. IMO, this can take place after...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: fathertime on October 29, 2018, 08:29:18 AM
Yes, I mentioned the facial hair in another thread...

As far as it irritating a woman’s skin, that is a universal issue, not just with FSU women, yet some women prefer it anyway.

As previously started, I have had two girlfriends who strongly preferred no facial hair. I shaved for the first one and she said “Don’t ever do that again”. She thought I went from “very attractive” to “homely” because of my genetic double chin.

When my Polish gf complained about my facial hair, I showed her a picture of myself clean shaven. She immediately decided that she would deal with her facial rash from kissing than to see me looking ugly without my beard.

In my experience it’s like  this: with a beard, fewer women want to date me, but there are still many attractive women in the mix.

Without a beard, more women want to date me, but very few of them are attractive because I look so damned ugly.

I know looks aren’t everything. I have dated women with great personalities all along the attractiveness spectrum. I would rather date a beautiful woman with a good personality than a plain women with a good personality.

Also, shaving irritates my skin and gives me a rash and skin problems.  When I was in the army, I had to deal with skin irritation and acne the entire time. Now I am free from those issues.  I guess if a woman can’t understand and accept me for who I am, I don’t need her.

If you like/want your beard, just keep it.   It may take some women off the table but not every woman is supposed to like you anyway. 

Fathertime! 
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Nightwish on October 29, 2018, 08:37:00 AM
Yes, I mentioned the facial hair in another thread...

As far as it irritating a woman’s skin, that is a universal issue, not just with FSU women, yet some women prefer it anyway.

As previously started, I have had two girlfriends who strongly preferred no facial hair. I shaved for the first one and she said “Don’t ever do that again”. She thought I went from “very attractive” to “homely” because of my genetic double chin.

When my Polish gf complained about my facial hair, I showed her a picture of myself clean shaven. She immediately decided that she would deal with her facial rash from kissing than to see me looking ugly without my beard.

In my experience it’s like  this: with a beard, fewer women want to date me, but there are still many attractive women in the mix.

Without a beard, more women want to date me, but very few of them are attractive because I look so damned ugly.

I know looks aren’t everything. I have dated women with great personalities all along the attractiveness spectrum. I would rather date a beautiful woman with a good personality than a plain women with a good personality.

Also, shaving irritates my skin and gives me a rash and skin problems.  When I was in the army, I had to deal with skin irritation and acne the entire time. Now I am free from those issues. I guess if a woman can’t understand and accept me for who I am, I don’t need her.

Exactly how I went about this also, I haven't been clean shaved since in my 20:s .. so 25+ years now. (Except for a brief meltdown 5 years ago when I tried it on my vacation, never again!)
Never had an issue getting women to date me, some has mentioned they want to see me clean shaved and I said, if the beard don't suit you, you are free to leave, but the beard stays. I keep mine very trimmed and short.
I'm sure lost out on women being turned off by it, although none has said it straight out. But the pool is deep and I never suffered from it.

My girl now has asked me to shave, but when I said no, she stopped asking, even if she gives me hints from time to time she would appreciate if I did.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on October 29, 2018, 08:38:32 AM

I really wish there was a way to mitigate the risk of just meeting one, but my experience is that
there is no way to 100% predict what the chemistry will be like in person.

Any perspective on this is appreciated.

First don't lie, you lose a girls trust and you are paddling with your oars
out of the water. You need to work always to build a girls trust. The best
way to do that is to be trustworthy.

You are trying to visit many using visit one tactics and that's a mistake in my
opinion.

You want to visit many then you don't try to get to know them first. Do
that and they will expect you to visit only them and if they find out you
are visiting more they will sabotage your trip.

If you want to visit many then you pick a city then write 100 girls a letter
inviting them to tea. Then you meet the girl and see if you have chemistry
or not. You NEVER date a girl twice if she is not the one. Never date a girl
twice just because she is hot.

You date a girl twice only because you think she might be the one. If you
don't know then she's not it.

If you want to mitigate your risk then you visit one with a backup plan. The
back up plan is to meet other girls. A backup plan is NOT to meet your second
choice. You don't want sloppy seconds, she doesn't want sloppy seconds, don't
bother the second place girl. Meet new girls find a new first place girl.


You can read all about various strategies and tactics here
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on October 29, 2018, 08:46:58 AM
it sounds so pragmatic...But if i had the same problem..I d choose only one man, the best one to
meet him. But you have many coctacts of other ladies. So if something will be wrong, no any
chemistry...You can go to spontaneous date with someone else

I'm old enough to be your father and I am happily married, so for the purpose of this
exercise lets assume somebody else who is 5 years older than you and obviously not
married, further let's assume that this 5 years older unmarried man just wrote an
email to your friend and your response is how you would advise her.

This man writes your friend and asks her to meet for tea (and cake because he wants to
sweeten the deal). The purpose of the meeting is to see if they like each other or not.

What would you advise this girl knowing in advance if things worked out he would pursue
her and knowing in advance if things didn't work out that he would keep looking.

What's your advice to this girl?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on October 29, 2018, 09:32:32 AM
how do I explain it to you guys?

you go to Ukraine to chase women
but in Ukraine women chase you!

ok?
NOW do you get it!
i know... I know... it's so subtle...
but think it about it for a second
you want the women to chase you!


most of you poor sods out there
will never know what it feels like
when you allow yourself to be captured by a Ukrainian woman
you have no idea of the incredible "animal magnetism"
a Ukrainian woman can throw off when she has set her sights on you
the amount of manipulation and persuasion she can employ to "win you over"
the raw sexual appeal of a beautiful physically perfect 20 yr old Ukrainian Woman is absolutely astonishing
and devastating

and then she cooks you the best breakfast you ever had in your entire life next morning
and you're thinking, "she MIGHT be a keeper"

American men, have NEVER had the experience of a woman making a maximum effort to "please her man"
I know, I dated plenty of American Women, and lived with two long term
it would be labeled as "subservient behavior" by American feminists
but this is what comes NATURALLY to Ukrainian women, it's how "they roll"

hmmmmmmmmmmmm hmmmm!


so ya'll wanna mess around and pass that up, go right ahead and have a nice day!!!
for narrow is the path to paradise, and although many may search for the gate
only few will find it



Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on October 29, 2018, 10:41:21 AM
lose the attitude of "my way or the highway" with Russian women
100% it'll be the highway
learn to compromise and negotiate
be a sympathetic empathetic person and LISTEN

and good luck

I took your advice and went straight to some of the ladies I have been talking to.  I asked,

"I have many friends who have told me that Ukrainian women hate facial hair and I should shave immediately.  I was curious to know if you agree"

Some responses were:

"Nooooo"

"I don't like baby face"

"I love facial hair, it's cool"

"I LOVE it! If you look after it"

"We don't like it because our men don't how to look after all this hair and they just look like homeless"


So, the women have spoken!  The beard stays!  I realize this is a self selected survey.  I'm sure the women you clean shaven guys date would say the exact opposite.  The thing is, women aren't extremely attracted to a guy because he is clean shaven.  Those women just hate beards.  However, some women are very attracted to a guy, just because of the beard.

Let's say 100 of us forum members were in a room with 100 Ukrainian women.  99 of you clean shaven guys would be fighting over the 95 girls who hated beards while I would have zero competition for the five girls who loved facial hair.  (Please don't attack my analogy... it's just an analogy and I'm sure you can find all sorts of flaws with it.)

My point is this... I have become extremely picky with my criteria of even who I will talk to, yet I can't even manage the responses I have been getting (mostly unsolicited).  I don't see any reason to change anything about myself when I can't manage the number of women I am communicating with right now.

I will agree that probably most women hate facial hair.  I don't need most women.  I just need the right ONE woman who accepts me.  I am an American man and I don't intend to make myself more like a Ukrainian man.  I think some Ukrainian women wear too much makeup, but I don't expect a woman to change her appearance for me.  I will accept them for who they are and want the same in return.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on October 29, 2018, 10:50:44 AM
so a guy whose pic has him sporting facial hair, asks UW, "Do you like guys with beards"

i'll make a fake profile pic of a guy covered in 3rd degree facial burns, and say "ladies you like facial mutilation"
they will all say
DA!  Eta Cressiva!

all up to you, but I've had to learn how to make lots of sacrifices "for the cause"
don't see why your beard seems so sacred to you, but hey, to each their own

as I've tried to explain
you need to carefully form your "brand" image
I honestly hope you're not presenting them with your avatar here?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on October 29, 2018, 11:01:59 AM
Honesty is your best friend. Your 'come back' post implied you're a 'seasoned' social dude, so why be undecided now?

WMVM is suited for guys who knows and understand their way around women and how to properly relate socially. It should be instinctual. If you're not comfortable with yourself and lack confidence in handling pressure situation, I would suggest not going this route as you'll only resort to 'lying' (yes, anything short of 'honesty' IS lying).

IMHO, a) You cannot make the right choice, if you never have choices to make it from; b) A WMVM is just a WOVO waiting to happen; c) You cannot lose what you never had; d) Never abandon your wits and instincts.; e) Honesty is the seed to your confidence and attitude. Void of such, the loss of both.

I never wasted my time with the 'getting to know' stage prior to the trip. You have no idea (nor do the women with you) what or how things will be when you meet in person. IMO, this can take place after...

You make some good points....

To answer your initial question on why am undecided.... Over the past few years, I have become pretty proficient at domestic online dating.  I saw dating kind of like a sales pipeline.  Let's say I would message 50 girls.  20 would respond.  Of those, I would get 10 phone numbers.  I would ask some of them out and maybe get two dates.  I did this on a rolling basis and would have 1-3 dates a week.  If I wanted to pursue something with someone I dated, I would throw everyone out and focus on her.  If/when things didn't work out, I would start over.... lather, rinse repeat...

I'm trying to see how I can leverage a "system" that I am proficient at as I approach this.  The big difference is I am now planning around a longer trip instead of just a weekend with 2-3 dates.  I can emotionally manage being "flirty" and calling/texting 3-4 girls at once without negative consequences.  The thing is that in the US, everyone openly knows that your date for next Friday is still talking to other people.  I have been on the phone with a girl planning our date and can see that she is online on the dating site we met on (she can also see I am online) and nobody seems to care (until you are actually dating each other, anyway).

I don't want to commit to a WOVO, but don't want to look like I'm a player either.  I appreciate everyone's input and advice.  I am fine tuning my approach each day.  When I come back from Ukraine, I'll be sure to let everyone know how it went.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on October 29, 2018, 11:10:02 AM
so a guy whose pic has him sporting facial hair, asks UW, "Do you like guys with beards"

i'll make a fake profile pic of a guy covered in 3rd degree facial burns, and say "ladies you like facial mutilation"
they will all say
DA!  Eta Cressiva!

all up to you, but I've had to learn how to make lots of sacrifices "for the cause"
don't see why your beard seems so sacred to you, but hey, to each their own

as I've tried to explain
you need to carefully form your "brand" image
I honestly hope you're not presenting them with your avatar here?

These are not just random women from a website.  They are women who I have talked to extensively offline.

Of course I have facial hair in all my pics.  I also have facial hair when I video chat with them.  It's because I have facial hair.

Why are you being so insulting to me?  What did I ever do to you?  I don't think it's necessary to compare my appearance to someone with 3rd degree facial burns.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on October 29, 2018, 11:17:05 AM
dude,
calm the hell down
jeezus

tryin to explain to ya bro
the simple logic
that girls who see your pic and who write you
won't be dissing your appearance
if they don't like beards they just won't write you!!!
and you don't know you could've had 5 times as many hits without the face fuzz
you LOVE your beard, keep it!
absolutely NO PROBLEM for me!!!!

BUT, you have no freakin experience in Ukraine
so was trying to clue you in 'bro
don't be so freakin thin skinned and so volatile
or things will not go well for you in Ukraine, ponelle? no you don't
so go and find out
you and your beard go and have a swell time together
I will be SO looking forward to your trip report
your beard will be quite useful in protecting you from the cold this January
but that's about it!





Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on October 29, 2018, 11:31:50 AM
dude,
calm the hell down
jeezus

tryin to explain to ya bro
the simple logic
that girls see your pic
they won't be dissing your appearance
but what about the ones who didn't write you
cuz THEY don't dig beards, ok...


I'm trying to explain my logic that I don't care about the ones that don't write me because of my beard.  There are others who won't write me because I have kids or because I'm too old.

The scraps that are left... those who are truly interested in me... are more than I can handle.  I don't need a bigger pool of women to choose from.  Even if 99% reject me, I still have a pool of the 1% of beautiful, educated women to choose from.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on October 29, 2018, 11:40:57 AM
bro
I can't do anything bout what's in YOUR head
but I am trying to give you the straight no bullshit facts
ask yourself this one question who do you want to advise you
a couple of chicks trying to stroke your ego
or someone who will tell you straight out when you're being a dick and doesn't care at all if you get pissed about it
I'll leave that decision up to you

if the beard is that important to you, so be it
kids, that's a whole separate deal
do you know how THAT's perceived by Ukrainian women?
MUCH bigger problem than the beard

"Even if 99% reject me, I still have a pool of the 1% of beautiful, educated women to choose from."

don't work that way Bro, the bottom of the barrel ain't like it is at the top


Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on October 29, 2018, 11:50:59 AM
So, the women have spoken!  The beard stays! 

I am totally indifferent to beards, besides my is mostly gray anyway
and isn't as cool as it was when I was younger. The only reason I grew
one back then was because
1. My basketball coach forbid us to have them.
2. I thought it would enable me to buy beer.

I heard that Russian women mostly didn't like them so I kept myself clean shaven.
It wasn't something important to me.

If a beard is important to you for whatever reason then keep it and look
for girls who like beards. If you only like red heads then chase red heads
if you would rather date lepers than ginger girls then by all means ignore
them.

When you ask questions here you will get lots of advice. Some of it will
be very good and some of it will be more dubious. What's most important
is not to get offended by any of the people giving out advice.

Some people will think that their advice is extra super special and everybody
who doesn't agree with it are idiots and doomed to failure. They will fight
anyone who disagrees with their super duper infallible fits all situations
advice.

My opinion is that there are a hundred ways to succeed at this and a thousand
ways to f#ck it up.

Only you knows your personality, your situation and your goals. My advice is
to read all the advice sifting through it taking out the good stuff that you
think fits you and your situation and personality. Keep the best and ignore
the rest.

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on October 29, 2018, 12:12:47 PM
"Some people will think that their advice is extra super special and everybody
who doesn't agree with it are idiots and doomed to failure.




the mice NEVER have anything nice to say about the cat...

m'man! take a good look at the people posting here
you don't think there have been those who are EXACTLY how you described
"idiots and doomed to failure"

my extra super special advice to them is " tok tok time to wake up"




Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on October 29, 2018, 12:49:47 PM
The 'unshaven look' is very widespread in USA now and in other countries.

Many women must like it; elsewise they would be avoiding those with that feature in large enough numbers that men would stop sporting that look.

While many women in the past would react badly to being brushed on the cheeks (in either place) with a prickly (not long beard) chin, I have found that some women now actually like it being used there and even on the reverse side.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: rwd123 on October 29, 2018, 01:17:20 PM
Beards are not popular. If you look at how male models are presented in the FSU it is always clean shaven or stubble.

Winter is a good time if you want to hit bars, as it's too cold to be outside. People tend to disperse outside in warmer months.

If you have two weeks take up some Russian tuition, inexpensive and will give you something to do during the day.

Consider a side trip or two. Lviv, Odessa and Minsk, etc. all short flights without needing visas.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GQBlues on October 29, 2018, 01:40:05 PM
You make some good points....

To answer your initial question on why am undecided.... Over the past few years, I have become pretty proficient at domestic online dating.  I saw dating kind of like a sales pipeline.  Let's say I would message 50 girls.  20 would respond.  Of those, I would get 10 phone numbers.  I would ask some of them out and maybe get two dates.  I did this on a rolling basis and would have 1-3 dates a week.  If I wanted to pursue something with someone I dated, I would throw everyone out and focus on her.  If/when things didn't work out, I would start over.... lather, rinse repeat...

I'm trying to see how I can leverage a "system" that I am proficient at as I approach this.  The big difference is I am now planning around a longer trip instead of just a weekend with 2-3 dates.  I can emotionally manage being "flirty" and calling/texting 3-4 girls at once without negative consequences.  The thing is that in the US, everyone openly knows that your date for next Friday is still talking to other people.  I have been on the phone with a girl planning our date and can see that she is online on the dating site we met on (she can also see I am online) and nobody seems to care (until you are actually dating each other, anyway).

I don't want to commit to a WOVO, but don't want to look like I'm a player either.  I appreciate everyone's input and advice.  I am fine tuning my approach each day.  When I come back from Ukraine, I'll be sure to let everyone know how it went.

The premise in all of this is you're pursuing the FSU scene with marriage as an underlying possibility/probability (as oppose to merely getting laid - not saying you are). This doesn't negate anything you accustomed yourself into doing socially. Everything is a process regardless which approach is taken. Thus, proceed with a process that's 'trusted', comfortable and natural to you. Geography or culture doesn't change that, IMO. Doing things differently only means you're being someone you're not to suit a temporary 'fix'. That'll just get you in trouble in the long run. Guaranteed.

So, let me share with you what I did. I will only speak of myself as I only know what I can do. Not implying you do the same..Here goes:

I made up my mind to give this route one shot. Like you, I had options at home and everywhere else, so the FSU was just one of the options. The best thing for me to handle this was so much more different than what everyone seem to have done based on what they shared of their experiences. That's OK with me as I stayed true to myself by sticking to my 'norm'. I am not overwhelmed in the presence of gorgeous women. I don't give a hoot who. I've been used to it all my life. So I maintained presence of mind regardless of situations.

Then:

1. I susbcribed to EM with their then-early mailers of 'upcoming' list of women before they appeared in their website.
2. First email is short and sweet (content in both language/subject header in Russian). Two photos attached. Basic introduction. My intent and premise - the opportunity to meet in person (given estimated time of my trip).
3. Encouraged them to meet as many men as they like, as I plan to do the same with FSUWs, which also included me still dating women here at home. Period. Some said, no way, so I remained gracious and respectful for those who responded 'nay' and thanked them for their honesty. Others agreed with me (you'd be surprised how many 'agreed apprehensively. Few readily. Plenty nonetheless).
4. w/ English language knowledge only. Fluency is not necessary.

Here's where I may have done something few, if none, did the same. With 2-3 months before my trip, and being a WMVM, I didn't want to be burdened with a barrage of emails/phone calls with numerous women before the trip. That's a waste of time and energy. For me, I feel there should NOT be any emotional connection during this time. I'll get to know the person AFTER we meet and acknowledged that by then an opportunity of getting to know each other better is warranted. So how do I accomplish this?

2002-2003 was before Skype/Facebook/most Social media...so I had to be creative, do something that will separate me from everyone else, but also somehow maintain continued interest without laboring the process and writing redundant emails for so many gals for the entire 2-3 months.

So what I did is this: at the time, there was a website (webcrawler, IIRC) that offered a 'free', limited webpage. 4 pages. So I took the 'free' offer.

1st page: Intro, the genesis of why I'm pursuing FSU, a small tidbit of who I am and where I live and a good sized picture of me.
2nd page: pictures page (update per your mood), of you, w/ friends, places you've been to, in essence it'll be like they're there with you and sees the things you're seeing; (Eventually, my 2nd page became a mirror of the first page but written in Russian and with a different picture - there's a story of how that came to be).
3rd page: postings of recent events in my life (nothing personal). Could be anything random. It's like telling a friend your day, sports you played, general recent experiences (update per your mood);
4th page: a little bit of history about you re: childhood, trips, notable achievements, favorites things to do; etc...(update per your mood). I did most of these in a story-telling fashion. Allow their imagination to kick in. I tried to be as creative as I could. After all, the mind is, eherm, the biggest 'organ' you know.

The cool thing was, you actually get your 'own' weblink that you provide to those who took your offer. Doing this once, actually sends a universal notices to the gals every time you entered an update. There's also an added little 'cool' page hit counter, too. LOL, you'd know how many times your webpage got visited. Definitely an awesome and fun bonus for the ego. It's amazing how much intrigue and compliments I was continually receiving from all the gals - day 1. I was taken aback by the page hits because it didn't seem to justify the number of the gals I was in contact with. It was relatively enormous and couldn't really make sense why until I found out many of the gals were sharing the link with family, friends, etc...

I can tell you amazing things that happened to every single gal because of that webpage. Each one is an amazing story unto itself because of it. It was the gals themselves that pushed for more so much so they're calling me in L.A., send me text messages, sending me gifts, snail mail with cool stuff, etc...These were all pretty expensive to do from Russia at the time. The effect was incredible.

By the time I made my trip, I was almost a rock star with each one of them. Of course now you have Facebook/Instagram, etc..So you'll need to get ahead of these curve in the same way I did for me at the time. There's more than one way to skin a cat. This is just one of them, and one I chose to do...

Do what you believe works for you. Do not COMPROMISE yourself and your belief. Be your own man!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on October 29, 2018, 02:22:27 PM
success has a thousand fathers
and failure is always an orphan!

you’re an Army man like me bro’ I would not steer you wrong
not ever!

my advice
when fighting on unknown terrain
is to listen to those who fought there before you

as stated previously
going for "the 1%" ain’t the right approach
cuz seriously
the cream at the bottom of the bucket
is nowhere near as sweet as that on top
and there ain’t no reason for you to scoop from the bottom bro’

zabut (forget) your beard that’s minor, easy as hell to fix if need be
your kids are THE MAJOR issue to the “average” Ukrainian woman
a litany of issues, makes it more likely she will have her own children as well
anything more to "disclose"?

you have the toughest road of all to walk my friend!
how about talking about these issues
instead of that stuff you got sproutin all over your face
that you love so much

just chill ok, I’m just messin with ya...



Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on October 29, 2018, 02:36:59 PM


2002-2003 was before Skype/Facebook/most Social media..

For who? You, maybe

Skype - I was using it in October 2003 - but my issue was persuading FSU ladies to use it ... Many ( including my then to be Wife) thought it was an American spy software   ..I worked with really techie folk who go me an invite to a new thing called Gmail in April 2004

Facebook: Met an American Student on a bus out of C.London to Gatwick Airport - who asked if he could use my Brand New Nokia N92 mobile phone -  to use something called Facebook - Autumn ( Fall) 2006 - it already had 6 million users by the end of 2005 !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Facebook (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Facebook)

You were even more 'behind the times' than me  ;)









Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on October 29, 2018, 02:53:49 PM
When we were just talking on the phone (back in 2000) I told mr. Pedro. If you are coming to Moscow with a plan to meet a few girls, you are not meeting me. Its my game and my rules too. There are things that I could compromise on, and this is not one of them. Advise - spend more time on Whatsup or Skype. Listen and Observe. Discuss everything. Thye more things you discuss the faster you will understand which one of them is a better match than others.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: DaveNY on October 29, 2018, 02:54:44 PM
For who? You, maybe

Skype - I was using it in October 2003 - but my issue was persuading FSU ladies to use it ... Many ( including my then to be Wife) thought it was an American spy software   ..I worked with really techie folk who go me an invite to a new thing called Gmail in April 2004

Facebook: Met an American Student on a bus out of C.London to Gatwick Airport - who asked if he could use my Brand New Nokia N92 mobile phone -  to use something called Facebook - Autumn ( Fall) 2006 - it already had 6 million users by the end of 2005 !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Facebook (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Facebook)

You were even more 'behind the times' than me  ;)

It would have been very difficult to get FSU ladies to use Skype in October 2003. The first public beta version was released on August 29, 2003.  For those who don't know what a beta version is, it is essentially a test version. It means it had a limited release and most likely had limited functionality. IOW FSU ladies DID NOT have access to Skype in October 2003 and neither did msmob.

msmob counter is going to be that he knew one of Skype's inventors, senior programmers, etc and he scored a beta version. However, unless those FSU ladies also knew one of Skype's inventors, senior programmers, etc they couldn't possibly have had access to Skype in Oct. 2003.

msmob do you understand that to use Skype both parties must have copies?

Skype only became known to the general public after Ebay bought it in Sept. 2005. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skype#History
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: DaveNY on October 29, 2018, 03:00:44 PM
When we were just talking on the phone (back in 2000) I told mr. Pedro. If you are coming to Moscow with a plan to meet a few girls, you are not meeting me. Its my game and my rules too. There are things that I could compromise on, and this is not one of them. Advise - spend more time on Whatsup or Skype. Listen and Observe. Discuss everything. Thye more things you discuss the faster you will understand which one of them is a better match than others.

Donna_Pedro if FSU women insist that foreigners that come to meet them, meet only them and no other women, does that mean that the FSUW are not dating any local guys? Somehow I doubt it.

I do agree that there should be communication between both parties. However, I seriously doubt FSUW are not dating local men just because they have communicated with a foreigner and he is visiting. 
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on October 29, 2018, 03:02:44 PM
RULE NUMBER 1
never let a woman unilaterally put HER conditions on YOU EVER!!!!!!!
all conditions must be mutually agreed upon by you both or NOT at all...
say NEXT Proujouste if she does this and save yourself from your future master!!!
unless you're into that "kind of thing"
I know some guys are
but I just don't roll "that way" myself
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on October 29, 2018, 03:16:21 PM
Donna_Pedro if FSU women insist that foreigners that come to meet them, meet only them and no other women, does that mean that the FSUW are not dating any local guys? Somehow I doubt it.

I do agree that there should be communication between both parties. However, I seriously doubt FSUW are not dating local men just because they have communicated with a foreigner and he is visiting.


Of course, its a mutual commitment. If in doubt, do not come to visit yet. Spend more time on Skype or Whatsup. And you will understand if she is seeing someone else while talking to you. 
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GQBlues on October 29, 2018, 03:17:18 PM
For who? You, maybe

Skype - I was using it in October 2003 - but my issue was persuading FSU ladies to use it ... Many ( including my then to be Wife) thought it was an American spy software   ..I worked with really techie folk who go me an invite to a new thing called Gmail in April 2004

Facebook: Met an American Student on a bus out of C.London to Gatwick Airport - who asked if he could use my Brand New Nokia N92 mobile phone -  to use something called Facebook - Autumn ( Fall) 2006 - it already had 6 million users by the end of 2005 !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Facebook (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Facebook)

You were even more 'behind the times' than me  ;)

OY! Skype became available August 2003. Facebook was first launched 2004.

Sober up, man.

Read the very site you just posted. 2006 was when it became 'public'. Facebook was first launched 2004.  ::)
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on October 29, 2018, 03:20:56 PM
OY! Skype became available August 2003. Facebook was first launched 2004.

Sober up, man.

Read the very site you just posted. 2006 was when it became 'public'. Facebook was first launched 2004.  ::)


OMG! And we were still using those damn call cards...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on October 29, 2018, 03:23:01 PM
so you meet someone online
are you seriously asking her
are you "my one and only true love"
will you be true?
will you be ONLY mine?

you do of course realize that the same possibility that the goose has for seeing "many"
is also shared by the gander

aww don't worry, Ukrainians are the most honest trustworthy folks you'll ever meet!

bottom line:
can't fault a girl for trying to get "the best deal"

how are you really going to verify someone's integrity from thousands of miles away?
it's why you have to do it in person



Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GQBlues on October 29, 2018, 03:31:25 PM

OMG! And we were still using those damn call cards...

LMAO! Yes...there were like 10,000 numbers you needed to dial, plus the country and city codes before even dialing the actual numbers. From my end, it was $10.00 for 5 minutes. I don't know how much it cost the ladies from Russia. I'm sure pricier.

There were 2 gals from Moscow and one from Vladivostok that were calling me in L.A. before my first trip. That was late April 2003 (when I met you, Gator and his then-ex in Moscow).
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: DaveNY on October 29, 2018, 03:49:29 PM
LMAO! Yes...there were like 10,000 numbers you needed to dial, plus the country and city codes before even dialing the actual numbers. From my end, it was $10.00 for 5 minutes. I don't know how much it cost the ladies from Russia. I'm sure pricier.

There were 2 gals from Moscow and one from Vladivostok that were calling me in L.A. before my first trip. That was late April 2003 (when I met you, Gator and his then-ex in Moscow).

GQB are you old enough to remember trying to make a long distance phone call in the 60s? Pick up the phone a dial a long distance operator. A different operator from a local operator.

Then give her (the operators were always women) the number, the city, the country to be called. Then, if in a phone both, deposit the money. Often the amount you deposited did not agree with what was recorded, so add more. Of course you had to know how much it would cost before hand and have it ready in quarters. Try finding $5 or $10 dollars in quarters in short notice.

Then once the money is correctly deposited the operator says all lines are busy, a common occurrence is some locations, please try your call later. Then the phone doesn't return your quarters or not all of them.

The cards were a great improvement. Not perfect, but better than the alternative.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on October 29, 2018, 04:08:52 PM
Over the past few years, I have become pretty proficient at domestic online dating.  I saw dating kind of like a sales pipeline.  Let's say I would message 50 girls.  20 would respond.  Of those, I would get 10 phone numbers.  I would ask some of them out and maybe get two dates.  I did this on a rolling basis and would have 1-3 dates a week.  If I wanted to pursue something with someone I dated, I would throw everyone out and focus on her.  If/when things didn't work out, I would start over.... lather, rinse repeat...


You've got an edge over many guys entering this endeavor by being successful at domestic dating. Your social skills in communicating with ladies on a date will be better than most.

The thing with international dating is that it requires more brain power over domestic dating. You need to identify and win over a quality woman faster than you would if you were dating her at home. If you don't lock her up, another guy will. FSU women like smart men and if you can't figure a woman out after a few months communication and a visit, a lady is most likely not going to wait another six months for your second visit to arrive to figure her out. You don't have to ask for marriage on a first visit but you can ask for a commitment to be exclusive. It's easy to make a mistake when you have to decide on a woman faster than you normally would at home. Smart men are less likely to make a mistake.

Advise - spend more time on Whatsup or Skype. Listen and Observe. Discuss everything. Thye more things you discuss the faster you will understand which one of them is a better match than others.


A lot of the guys who write trip reports that end in failure failed to phone or video chat with their lady(s) before visiting them. They are basically visiting strangers if they rely on email alone.

I wouldn't visit any woman unless I spend lots of time with them on the phone, one of my requirements. I don't like scheduled video chats. Never did it. Maybe I'm old fashioned but one can learn a lot on the phone. If a woman never answers the phone on Friday and Saturday nights, she may be a party girl. Sometimes I catch a lady in the bath and tell her I'll call later but almost always, the woman tells me she wants to talk to me now instead of later although she's fully nude. Women who likes a guy wants to talk to him and refuses to end the conversation. I don't talk a woman's ear off. I always end the conversation before they do to where they are wanting more. Sometimes I'll call when they are at work(not on purpose), around friends and family and I'll know where I stand with them if they pick up the phone in those environments.

Quality communication prior to a visit isn't as good as a face to face meeting but it can help determine interest and if a visit to a girl should even happen.

Speaking of old school communication, I too have used phone cards. Sometimes the quality is crappy. I once had a four way call with a girl and a couple other people in another country as the lines crossed. I also did snail mail. I got a brochure of FSU women in the mail and so I sent out some postal letters. Surprisingly, after a month and a half, I got a letter back from a girl. Unfortunately for her things with me were moving light speed with other girls on email.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GQBlues on October 29, 2018, 04:10:15 PM
GQB are you old enough to remember trying to make a long distance phone call in the 60s? Pick up the phone a dial a long distance operator. A different operator from a local operator.

Then give her (the operators were always women) the number, the city, the country to be called. Then, if in a phone both, deposit the money. Often the amount you deposited did not agree with what was recorded, so add more. Of course you had to know how much it would cost before hand and have it ready in quarters. Try finding $5 or $10 dollars in quarters in short notice.

Then once the money is correctly deposited the operator says all lines are busy, a common occurrence is some locations, please try your call later. Then the phone doesn't return your quarters or not all of them.

The cards were a great improvement. Not perfect, but better than the alternative.

I wasn't here in the States then...back home, only the 'elite' had phones when I was a kid. I remember we'd have to walk a bit to someone who did have a phone if we needed to make a call anywhere. Had to pay a princely sum for it. Then have to deal with a party line consisting of a bunch of other people. So when you pick up the ear/mouth piece, most of the time you hear a busy dial tone. It may take you 5-10 minutes before getting an open line to boot, LMAO!

When I got to the US, I remember those public phones. One time I deposited a dime for a call and never connected. I was so angry as it was my last dime and had to make a call. So I dialed the operator hoping she can make my connection. She said she can't do it and offered to send me a 'refund'. Silly me to agree for the refund, too. For a few days I actually waited for it in the mail, believe it or not! A different area code was, FWIW, a long distance call. Better have the stack of coins ready so you don't get cutoff.

Then comes those cell phones with 3 pound batteries! A whole other matter.

But yes, the calling cards, compared to the former, was a leap.  :P
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on October 29, 2018, 04:36:10 PM
If you like/want your beard, just keep it.   It may take some women off the table but not every woman is supposed to like you anyway. 

Fathertime!

+1

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on October 29, 2018, 04:39:54 PM
I copied and posted this in the dating 101 thread so that it wouldn't get buried and lost.
Some good information

The premise

Do what you believe works for you. Do not COMPROMISE yourself and your belief. Be your own man!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on October 29, 2018, 05:16:35 PM
When I got to the US, I remember those public phones. One time I deposited a dime for a call and never connected. I was so angry as it was my last dime and had to make a call. So I dialed the operator hoping she can make my connection. She said she can't do it and offered to send me a 'refund'. Silly me to agree for the refund, too. For a few days I actually waited for it in the mail, believe it or not! A different area code was, FWIW, a long distance call. Better have the stack of coins ready so you don't get cutoff.
:P


The last couple of months before coming to Moscow Mr. Pedro kept me on the phone practically all the time I was not asleep, Forget about seeing anybody else, I had to completely stop any social contacts but him - anybody who called me had a busy signal. If he went anywhere, I got a photo report in email.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on October 29, 2018, 05:21:20 PM
""Do what you believe works for you. Do not COMPROMISE yourself and your belief. Be your own man!"

nothing like a good platitude I always say
A lack of originality or being insignificant should never be allowed to stand in its way

kids?
how many
ages
status of ex
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on October 29, 2018, 06:33:15 PM
Thanks everyone for all your great advice on this thread.  There is a lot of experience and wisdom here. I was going to do my first trip for 2-3 weeks in January, but I really want to get my feet wet in the whole process, so I’m thinking about doing a “last minute” trip in November for a week.

There is one girl I feel a real connection with and she really wants me to visit soon.  I will focus on her for the next few weeks and have her pick me up at the airport.  She said she will know within five or so hours if she really wants to pursue a relationship, so I will spend the day with her.  If we agree to keep things going, great.  If not, I’ll go back to my apartment and go online and set up meetings for the rest of the week.

I guess technically it’s a WOVO trip, but I have level set personal expectations that I’ll be okay if it doesn’t work out.  The girl is really cool and she knows she’s not the only girl in the world.  She even told me, “You are a man and have needs. I understand if you are sleeping with different women while you are looking for your soulmate.  Sex with those other women just needs to stop when you meet your future wife”

Again, thanks everyone for your help so far. I’m sure I will have a ton more questions over the next few weeks as I put this trip together.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on October 29, 2018, 07:31:59 PM

I guess technically it’s a WOVO trip, but I have level set personal expectations that I’ll be okay if it doesn’t work out.  The girl is really cool and she knows she’s not the only girl in the world.  She even told me, “You are a man and have needs. I understand if you are sleeping with different women while you are looking for your soulmate.  Sex with those other women just needs to stop when you meet your future wife”

Again, thanks everyone for your help so far. I’m sure I will have a ton more questions over the next few weeks as I put this trip together.


The idea of a trip  is not bad. However, that "you can have sex with other women" though definately flatters your ego, I would enterprit it as  a sign of low self esteem and desperation.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: rwd123 on October 29, 2018, 07:45:56 PM
and have her pick me up at the airport.
Nah, be as independent as possible.

Get a sim card at the airport, order an uber ride, and head into town. Book an apartment yourself, get used to navigating around the metro, where good restaurants are, where local grocery shops are, where to swap USD for UAH, etc. None of this is hard. If you need practical tips on logistics then ask.

And learn some Russian! Even a few phrases can come in handy. Alternatively pick up some Ukrainian but Russian is a safe bet.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on October 29, 2018, 07:48:10 PM
OY! Skype became available August 2003. Facebook was first launched 2004.

Indeed - and I was an early adopter - based on being around younger techie guys - who 'invited' me - before the public time ;)
 
Sober up, man.

I did have a half pint of 6X  - this evening - a Wiltshire brew -with two Ruslkies to show solidarity with Salisbury - do you think THAT 'effected my judgement' :D

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkA8rRHDnB0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkA8rRHDnB0)

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on October 29, 2018, 08:13:54 PM
Nah, be as independent as possible.

Get a sim card at the airport, order an uber ride, and head into town. Book an apartment yourself, get used to navigating around the metro, where good restaurants are, where local grocery shops are, where to swap USD for UAH, etc. None of this is hard. If you need practical tips on logistics then ask.

And learn some Russian! Even a few phrases can come in handy. Alternatively pick up some Ukrainian but Russian is a safe bet.

Sounds good. I was going to get a sim ahead of time, but it’s nice to know I can get one at the airport.  Where are good places to swap money?  Any specific areas you recommend looking for an apartment?  I was going to just use airbnb
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on October 29, 2018, 08:14:43 PM

I'm old fashioned but one can learn a lot on the phone. If a woman never answers the phone on Friday and Saturday nights, she may be a party girl. Sometimes I catch a lady in the bath and tell her I'll call later but almost always, the woman tells me she wants to talk to me now instead of later although she's fully nude. Women who likes a guy wants to talk to him and refuses to end the conversation. I don't talk a woman's ear off. I always end the conversation before they do to where they are wanting more. Sometimes I'll call when they are at work(not on purpose), around friends and family and I'll know where I stand with them if they pick up the phone in those environments.

Is it just me, or is BillyB's writing style confusing ..? He mixes up his tenses in such a way to suggest he is still dating ;)

BillyB .. FEW are the people who use the  phone to call, now - they use WhatsApp, Viber, Skype,etc., and if you call when she's in the bath and she answers WITH video - you know she's alone on a Friday night ....


Quality communication prior to a visit isn't as good as a face to face meeting but it can help determine interest and if a visit to a girl should even happen.

I'd use the noun woman - but therein might be a clue as to our differing ages / requirements ... I certainly agree with using videochat to eliminate being total strangers on meeting.

Speaking of old school communication, I too have used phone cards. Sometimes the quality is crappy. I once had a four way call with a girl and a couple other people in another country as the lines crossed. I also did snail mail. I got a brochure of FSU women in the mail and so I sent out some postal letters. Surprisingly, after a month and a half, I got a letter back from a girl. Unfortunately for her things with me were moving light speed with other girls on email.

Most of the call cards used VoIP - hence the cheaper costs, back then when termination charges for international calls were higher - the internet wasn't as good - hence the call quality could be horrendous

The guys in regular contact with women from Belarus could have huge telephone bills...hence the success of Viber, there... (where it was developed)




Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on October 29, 2018, 10:02:51 PM
She even told me, “You are a man and have needs. I understand if you are sleeping with different women while you are looking for your soulmate.  Sex with those other women just needs to stop when you meet your future wife”


Some girls will say that.  FSU women tend to understand men have needs of sex like we need water, food and air. Don't answer if you're sleeping with other women or not. Both would be bad answers. Admitting you're sleeping with other women tells her you got other women on your mind. Telling her you're not sleeping with other women gives her the impression no women wants you or that your equipment isn't working properly.

Is it just me, or is BillyB's writing style confusing ..?


It's always just you trying to start a fight and ruin every thread.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on October 29, 2018, 11:50:12 PM
BillyB,

You were posting in the present tense - seemingly offering 'advice' applicable to ten years ago, I sought clarity - not a fight.  ...

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: rwd123 on October 30, 2018, 12:09:54 AM
Sounds good. I was going to get a sim ahead of time, but it’s nice to know I can get one at the airport.  Where are good places to swap money?  Any specific areas you recommend looking for an apartment?  I was going to just use airbnb
If you stay near or on Kreshchatyk (which I'd recommend if first time to Kyiv) there are plenty of places to exchange cash, better rates than at the airport. AirBnB should be fine.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on October 30, 2018, 12:34:17 AM
A quick question on buying sims at the airport at Boryspil

I find getting a sim at airports - one often doesn't get the same deals one gets in shops / the stores in the cities - this applies in Russia, Turkey, Thailand, UK . Sometimes you are charged/ charged more for pre-paid sims eg. Turkey - I buy a sim at the DOMESTIC terminal - rather than the International one - much better deals

Having not bought a UA sim for some time - I'm just wondering is is not better to catch the new rail service into town and buy a sim where the locals, do ?






Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: rwd123 on October 30, 2018, 02:14:03 AM
Having not bought a UA sim for some time - I'm just wondering is is not better to catch the new rail service into town and buy a sim where the locals, do ?
Sim cards are dirt cheap. Unless you intend to visit regularly it's not worth the hassle, just buy at the airport. I went with KyivStar, it's around 10USD for the sim and 10USD for the month (unlimited data).
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on October 30, 2018, 02:29:30 AM
Thanks for explaining - it's useful info
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on October 30, 2018, 07:28:01 AM


the mice NEVER have anything nice to say about the cat...

m'man! take a good look at the people posting here
you don't think there have been those who are EXACTLY how you described
"idiots and doomed to failure"

my extra super special advice to them is " tok tok time to wake up"

Krimster,

I have posted very similar advice to many a newbie, I wasn't posting about
anybody in particular. Generally the advice you give to newbies is pretty
good. I was mostly referring to the visit one verses visit many crowd but
there are a hundred other subjects which fall on the list.

Did you have one in particular that you want to have?

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 30, 2018, 08:06:26 AM
The last couple of months before coming to Moscow Mr. Pedro kept me on the phone practically all the time I was not asleep, Forget about seeing anybody else, I had to completely stop any social contacts but him - anybody who called me had a busy signal. If he went anywhere, I got a photo report in email.
What did you threaten him with, if he did not ;D?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on October 30, 2018, 08:10:44 AM
"Did you have one in particular that you want to have? "

thank you for the invitation and clarification
but no...
the "pridorki" who post here produce topics far more entertaining than anything I could ever come up with
frankly, I find it alarming, that there are so many simpletons in the world
my daughters daily litany to me of tales of the idiots at their high school REALLY amazes me
Isaac Asimov, was quoted as saying
"The two most common elements in the Universe, are hydrogen and stupidity"
a lot of the posts here on RWD prove that at least half of this assertion is totally correct

my daily routine now includes standing guard at my daughter's school with other parents
to sacrifice ourselves should a school shooter suddenly appear
we hope our sacrifice outside the school building would give enough time to block their entry
poking fun at the people here, is usually something I do after that
so if I'm not in the best of all possible moods after guard duty against idiots, I apologize





Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on October 30, 2018, 08:38:41 AM
my daily routine now includes standing guard at my daughter's school with other parents
to sacrifice ourselves should a school shooter suddenly appear
we hope our sacrifice outside the school building would give enough time to block their entry

I can't really see you doing this on a daily basis.

And anyone who did this would probably be arrested for loitering, etc.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on October 30, 2018, 08:45:54 AM
maybe you cant
but we do
will take a pic for you if you like
we wear special red shirts for ID - I look quite dashing in mine
it's an actual school run program - all participants go through background check and simple training
all volunteers
a whole group of parents
thousands of schools in the US have parent volunteer guards
you've seriously NOT heard of this
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on October 30, 2018, 08:48:40 AM
You said it was your daily routine.  That implies 6-8 hours a day, 5 days a week.
This I can't believe.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on October 30, 2018, 08:54:36 AM
then you misinterpret what that means
I do at least one 2 hour shift per day M-F

part of my daily routine includes among other things brushing my teeth
does that imply to you that I brush my teeth at least 8 hours per day?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on October 30, 2018, 10:04:48 AM
You are right.  I over stated what daily could mean.  Sorry.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on October 30, 2018, 10:13:10 AM
thank you, quite all right...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 30, 2018, 02:15:47 PM
Okay, so I just got back in the game and I have been talking with a handful of women on WhatsApp.  This is feeling just like online dating in the US. I haven’t written any structured emails (as in the past). It’s all a bunch of short text conversations and phone calls.

I will be in Amsterdam for business for 10 weeks starting in January, so I thought I would fly into Kiev (from Chicago) a week or two early, then go to Amsterdam, then spend a week in Kiev before going home.

When I mentioned flying out to meet one girl, she freaked out and thought I was moving too fast. She calmed down when I told her I was flying to Europe anyway, and was just making a stop in Ukraine to meet her.  However, it got me thinking... I don’t know if I am ready to put all my eggs in one basket with one girl.

The problem is with the way I have been communicating daily with these girls.  They text at any given time asking “watcha doing?”  I have a lot of flexibility with my business, so I often answer when I am not busy. I actually enjoy the “interruption”.

So the problem is that I have been very transparent with everyone I talk to. I don’t advertise that I am talking to more than one girl, but they don’t ask.  I can’t claim to be traveling to Ukraine “on business” with no further explanation. They will ask a lot of specific questions (as these curious girls tend to do) and I don’t want to tell some elaborate lie.  I also don’t want to say “none of your business”, because that is not in my nature and it would raise a red flag because I am otherwise transparent.

I personally wouldn’t want to visit with a woman if I knew she was in a trip visiting a bunch of other guys, but visiting one just feels too high risk. I have dated online quite a bit in the US and more than once I have felt 100% sure I found a match made in heaven by talking and video chatting extensively before meeting, only to be disappointed when we actually met.

I really wish there was a way to mitigate the risk of just meeting one, but my experience is that there is no way to 100% predict what the chemistry will be like in person.

Any perspective on this is appreciated.

I've found the same as you BB99, though I notice you're profile says no trips as yet. In meeting though I don't think the chances are high on a meet one of chemistry.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 30, 2018, 02:24:44 PM
brownbeard99 (http://it's my understanding that some women that are EM or AFA or other brides sites are doing it just for fun. They really don't expect to meet anyone.) How true it is and what percentage are on the sites for fun I don't know.

I've also been told that few men who join such sites will ever get on a plane and go to the FSU. So many women may hear this and figure they'll have a little fun and join since most sites don't charge women a fee.

I think this is true Dave, I think you're very right here. I think some of the women I met have done it on this basis, out for enjoyment, break away, a bit of stuff, etc. I think it extends beyond just penpal stuff for fun though. I don't think they care much if you come and thd time & cost involved. You're just another stranger to them a why would they. They just decide to extend the fun during the visit knowing you are not there permanently. However, some girls do it for fun and a few end up meeting a guy they want to be with I guess.

Think it makes sense that a fair amount are out for fun as some women will even meet you on the hoof you have hardly corresponded to out there just out of interest/fun in meeting a WM. Not to say of course that there aren't any serious ones out there but I think a fair amount do just do it for the fun of it without really realising the guy is serious and they are potentially making a PIA of themselves for the guy.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on October 30, 2018, 02:44:37 PM
What did you threaten him with, if he did not ;D ?




PAinful separation from family jewels, of course..  :cluebat:
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 30, 2018, 05:05:22 PM
Tell every girl you plan to visit that you're visiting them as a friend and that you're open to a serious relationship if you find the right woman. Don't make a commitment to anybody prior to a visit and since you don't have a commitment to anybody you shouldn't feel guilty dating multiple girls the same time.

When a girl asks if you're visiting any other girls on the trip, you tell them you have no girlfriend and you don't like to talk about other girls. Tell her you want to focus on only her at the moment. Even if a girl asks about your ex's tell them you don't talk about past women. The past is the past. If other girls are on your mind, many ladies will hold it against you that your mind is on another girl, not them. When they ask you tough questions, if you hesitate or look nervous, they'll think something is wrong with you and/or you're lying. If you're confident in your answers and act like you're doing nothing wrong, they'll accept it. Although many women want a man to be only theirs, they also want to know their man is in demand so tactfully giving them the impression other girls like you may make them work harder for you.

There were times I visited ladies and it didn't seem like a good match, I'd then go get dates off local dating sites. Some girls ask me why I visited their city. I tell them the truth. I came to their city to find love and didn't find it yet. Never had a problem with that answer.

I've had girls on the first date tell me they only date one man at a time and they require their man to date only them and if I want to date them again, I have to agree to it. I then ask the girl if they are ready to dedicate their life to me and only me. They always reply "no". I tell them since I have no commitment you, we're only friends and are free to date whoever we want. I tell them I know they are getting asked out a lot and they are free to date whoever they want and choose the best guy, it's their right and I'm not jealous. Except for one time, I always got a second date.

Don't be afraid to hurt people's feelings because most of those girls will drop you like a hot potato when a better man comes along. Like you, they are probably jockeying for the best mate. You have the right to find the best girl in your life and when you do, you will forget about all others.

A lot of men don't give themselves choices. Without a selection to choose from, they can't choose the best woman out of the lot. By visiting multiple women, you've increased your chances in finding a winner. Keep in mind, it's possible none of the girls you are visiting this will be a good match and you may need to do more searching.

Although you mentioned you're not doing emails like you did in the past, you can still use the tool to see how motivated some of the girls are to please you. Tell them you want to share your life in pictures and ask for their email. If they like you, they won't refuse your request. Send them the photos but don't request any of theirs. You'll find some girls, without asking, will send you a slug of photos of their life. You can get an understanding who is more "into you" over the others and who seems family orientated to the point you'll be proud to take home to mamma.

Billy this stuff is gold dust :clapping: I think you have a pretty special grasp on how to deal with FSW and get it exactly right pretty much every time. I've benefitted invaluably from your advice and am much better equipped to deal with the whole FSU dating thing as as a result. I much appreciate your contributions on here :)

I too plan to do a meet many trip next year as like you say meet one doesnt really give you a lot of chance.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 30, 2018, 05:23:27 PM
Tried WM once - Never again

BillyB's advice assumes there's no emotion attached - there is ..  Let's be honest - we don't date to find friends .

Many women will simply not meet you - if they know you are on a VM trip

You may meet one with whom you click and you're over-running and the next date is calling - need that stress ?

Each to his own ;)

I don't think your advice is wrong Mobe, I think for most Newbies and those such as myself just a bit into the search it often holds true what you say.

The difference is that Billy knows how to talk to FSW and what to say. Most of us myself included don't. Billy's got a knack of talking to them how they would understand. Talk to them how he does and it would no doubt work.

Like you I tried a VM in Lviv, it didn't work out as well as I had hoped. I made mistakes like letting the girl know I was on a VM up front in my letter, then with one girl allured to it in person and the date took a bit of a downer after that.

It's experience that we can build upon though to not it mess up again in future. Following what Billy states and these pitfalls can be avoided.

Time wise I have also been considering too. The ideal is probably to have a date a day if time allowed. That I'm guessing would allow time not to have clashes. If they need to be done quicker than that then I think perhaps two a day is reasonable taking into consideration a possible clash may arise though.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 30, 2018, 06:43:18 PM

The last couple of months before coming to Moscow Mr. Pedro kept me on the phone practically all the time I was not asleep, Forget about seeing anybody else, I had to completely stop any social contacts but him - anybody who called me had a busy signal. If he went anywhere, I got a photo report in email.

Some people can talk endlessly for hours. I'm not one of those people. On some subjects I can talk a fair while but people who can talk endlessly for hours has always made me curious about how they manage it. It just seems like a strange phenomena to my mind.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on October 30, 2018, 07:20:38 PM
I searched back in my old trip report to get my wording on this matter.

Here is what I wrote concerning my WMVM trips:

"Further, all of the women I met knew I was meeting with other women.  Did I specifically tell them?  No I did not.  But, in emails before we met, I told in very strong language that I would under no circumstances discuss other women past, present or future, and I would not ask questions about other men past, present or future.

In coy terms, many of the women made slight reference to 'other women.'  I ignored such comments, and none of the women pressed the issue.  But they knew; just because they were not stupid.

And, I am not so stupid as to slap the women in the face by telling them I will choose based on 'how they play their cards.'  Again, I don't have to tell them, because as intelligent women; they already know this."
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on October 31, 2018, 07:41:12 AM
Trench

don’t worry ‘bout it mate...
she speaks Russian, you speak something approximating English
so if her English level is not very high
the “bandwidth” for communication will be low anyway in this situation
certainly not enough for extensive verbal dialog

so you learn to communicate in other subtle ways
you buy her a gift, a sweater, a piece of jewelry
and then you look deep into her eyes and smile and say “cressiva”
while you touch her shoulder or cheek lightly, but only for a moment

then she does something back to you like this
this goes back and forth a few times slowly escalating
at some point you move in for your first kiss
all ya gotta do mate

what you really need to do
is to establish a rapport a connection
and you need to “disarm” her
you do it by being empathetic
to try and establish understanding and trust

you don’t need to learn how to be a talker
you need to learn how to be a lover
being English unfortunately is a huge handicap for you, sorry
and I say that with the greatest of affection for the English people


Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on October 31, 2018, 11:35:59 AM
Some people can talk endlessly for hours. I'm not one of those people. On some subjects I can talk a fair while but people who can talk endlessly for hours has always made me curious about how they manage it. It just seems like a strange phenomena to my mind.


Difficult, I agree. But we all understand that  communication is a key to success. If you want your long-distance reelationship to work - you need to communicate even when you do not want and even if she does not want. The way both of you   behave under this pressure is important too. Personally I treated it  as a job. Mostly pleasant, but sometimes annoying. It  clearly showed that we both were compatable even being under pressure. Mr. Pedro obviousely felt more confident about his visit and so was I. No woman wants to know that a man is visiting someone else. The same as when you are dating someone, you do not want to know that your girlfriend is dating someone else at the same time.  If a woman  chooses not to pressure this issue (stating all the "right thing about mens sexual needs") it talks a lot about her level of self- confidence.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on October 31, 2018, 11:51:54 AM
you better have a seat, because what I'm about to say may shock you!!!!
ok, ready?
alright, here goes!!!

"not everyone thinks the same way you do or has the same values you do"!!!

sorry, it seemed to me you weren't aware of this



Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on October 31, 2018, 06:32:15 PM
Okay, so I am basing a lot of my approach based on my domestic online dating experience, but I sometimes still struggle with what things are different and what things are the same.

In the US, I have found that you have to keep communicating with a girl at least every 2-3 days or they will forget about you or assume you did.  A few times, I made the mistake of asking a girl out on Sunday or Monday for the next Friday or Saturday.  I wouldn't talk to them again until the day of the date (I'm a busy guy and I figured, "What's the point? I already secured the date"), only to have them cancel or tell me they thought I lost interest.  Anyway, I would always have to manage perceptions and find the balance between looking needy and looking disinterested.

When I first started messaging FSU women, If I went a day without messaging them, many of them would send me a message saying "I guess you aren't interested."  I think having to talk every day is pretty excessive, especially in the beginning, but "when in Rome" I guess.  Is this the norm out there?  I didn't care about the ones I lost, but if I find someone I really like, I don't want to screw it up.

I also ask this because this girl I have been talking to video chats with me sometimes and makes plans to talk every day, but has been cancelling them.  My gut says to drop her like a bad habit... I wouldn't tolerate this with an American girl.. are Ukrainian women typically flaky like this?  I know women who will do this kind of thing as a game to test you to see how far they can push you. These kinds of games are exhausting....
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: DaveNY on October 31, 2018, 06:53:40 PM
Okay, so I am basing a lot of my approach based on my domestic online dating experience, but I sometimes still struggle with what things are different and what things are the same.

In the US, I have found that you have to keep communicating with a girl at least every 2-3 days or they will forget about you or assume you did.  A few times, I made the mistake of asking a girl out on Sunday or Monday for the next Friday or Saturday.  I wouldn't talk to them again until the day of the date (I'm a busy guy and I figured, "What's the point? I already secured the date"), only to have them cancel or tell me they thought I lost interest.  Anyway, I would always have to manage perceptions and find the balance between looking needy and looking disinterested.

When I first started messaging FSU women, If I went a day without messaging them, many of them would send me a message saying "I guess you aren't interested."  I think having to talk every day is pretty excessive, especially in the beginning, but "when in Rome" I guess.  Is this the norm out there?  I didn't care about the ones I lost, but if I find someone I really like, I don't want to screw it up.

I also ask this because this girl I have been talking to video chats with me sometimes and makes plans to talk every day, but has been cancelling them.  My gut says to drop her like a bad habit... I wouldn't tolerate this with an American girl.. are Ukrainian women typically flaky like this?  I know women who will do this kind of thing as a game to test you to see how far they can push you. These kinds of games are exhausting....

Don't know how old you are but now if you 'talking' with a woman it isn't just about talking in person or on the phone it's also about talking via texting and other means.

With the advent of texting communication has become far more intense. If you're dating a woman in her 20s or 30s I'd think you'd have to 'talk' to her in some way every day or every other day at a bare minimum.

If I'm at work my wife will text me several times a day and she's in her 40s. She thinks texting is great. If I'm out running errands she thinks nothing of texting me to pick up other stuff or what I want for dinner or to get the car filled with gas because she has to go out early in the morning. 
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on October 31, 2018, 06:54:52 PM
are Ukrainian women typically flaky like this? 

Yes, most Ukrainian women are flaky; and so are most American women.

And so are most Ukrainian men and most American men.

It is a universal trait in this century.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on October 31, 2018, 07:02:36 PM
f I'm out running errands she thinks nothing of texting me to pick up other stuff or what I want for dinner or to get the car filled with gas because she has to go out early in the morning.

But if she doesn't know exactly where you are; how does she know where to send the text ?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on October 31, 2018, 07:04:53 PM
if you get flustered over every little "failed expectation" in this game
you are going to be in for a VERY hard time
and if the frustration is mounting over online interaction
what do you think will happen in person

look Bro' NONE of this has to do with the other person at all
it's all about YOU
and how you behave and process things
including failed expectations and frustration
deal with your anxiety and impatience before anything else
otherwise this ain't gonna work out for ya





Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: DaveNY on October 31, 2018, 08:24:34 PM
But if she doesn't know exactly where you are; how does she know where to send the text ?

There's a very long string connecting our two phones.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on October 31, 2018, 10:20:19 PM
When I first started messaging FSU women, If I went a day without messaging them, many of them would send me a message saying "I guess you aren't interested."  I think having to talk every day is pretty excessive, especially in the beginning, but "when in Rome" I guess.  Is this the norm out there?  I didn't care about the ones I lost, but if I find someone I really like, I don't want to screw it up.


Girls who consider an international man are used to guys disappearing easily. Most men who write women overseas never get on a plane. If a woman likes you, she looks forward to hearing from you everyday. If you're not communicating with her everyday, she thinks you got more important things on your mind than her.

this girl I have been talking to video chats with me sometimes and makes plans to talk every day, but has been cancelling them.


She's got more important things on her mind than you.

Communicate with a bunch of ladies. You'll find you'll want to communicate with certain ladies more than others. Out of those ladies, some will find they want to communicate with one guy more than others and it may not be you. This has to be sorted out and hopefully you find a gal you're thrilled with and she's thrilled with you.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on October 31, 2018, 11:35:11 PM


The difference is that Billy knows how to talk to FSW and what to say.

That's what he tells us ;) ....      :rolleyes:

Seriously, whether you're Mr Smooth talkin' or Netvous Ned - WMVM has the potential to go tits up

Cyprus has a population closer to a million, now - but this is a true story...

Back in 2003, two ethnic RU ladies were lying on the beach, chatted as ladies do and realised that they were about to be visited on a 'VO' by an American Gentleman

He had told each of them he was 'staying for a week' - a week apart..   He was arriving in three days..

They conspired to met him at the airport, together and I found out about their plan and persuaded them to 'confront' the bloke, online

He cancelled his 'trips' - but then he may never have arrived ?..

The moral of the story is .. surely clear ?



Right, Trechie... are you going to wise up and video-chat, first - or are you still a fan of 'blind dates' ?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on October 31, 2018, 11:47:42 PM
the journey of finding a Ukrainian wife
is surely a "thousand mile march"
so don't get so much anxiety
after taking the first step

hey GI
surely you have heard that the map is not the territory
everything online is just a map
a representation of the "real thing"

the real thing when you actually meet it
will be quite different from the map
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 01, 2018, 06:23:10 AM
These kinds of games are exhausting....




Its true. Headgames are annoying. More so for  long-distance relationships. I am glad me and Mr. Pedro were of the same mind on this matter.    However I  always thought that if a aman is truely interested he would always find a minute of his time (even he is bery busy) to talk. If you are busy you dont need to sacrifice smth important to talk for an hour. But definately you can call, say hi and all the usual nicities, state the matter of urgency, promise to call tomorrow at the same time (with intent to keep it) and politely closeout for the day. 3-5 minutes of time.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 01, 2018, 06:37:30 AM
Yes, most Ukrainian women are flaky;





And they are all desperate by defibition. THere is war there! Women want out ASAP! They dont care how many of them you are going to see in one trip as long as you take one of them out of that mess.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 01, 2018, 06:43:20 AM
"And they are all desperate by defibition. THere is war there! Women want out ASAP! "

deavotchka slushet, no difference between them and you when you left Russia, please stop govoryashchiy that khernya, horrosho?

the time period you left Russia?
I remember it well
there was a deep financial crisis in Russia
the further away you were from Moscow
the worst things got
to the point where stores/kiosks in small towns
had NO MONEY
so I ALWAYS had to pay in exact change
to the relief and gratitude of the merchants
basically, the money flowed out of these places to Moscow and didn't come back in the post '98 financial collapse

but you could take THAT Russia of the late 90s
and compare it to today's Ukraine easily
despite your charming stories
you were every bit as desperate as today's Ukrainian women
the proof of the correctness of what I'm saying
is the fact that you are HERE
ponelle? eta pravda




 
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 01, 2018, 04:40:16 PM
Okay, so I am basing a lot of my approach based on my domestic online dating experience, but I sometimes still struggle with what things are different and what things are the same.

In the US, I have found that you have to keep communicating with a girl at least every 2-3 days or they will forget about you or assume you did.  A few times, I made the mistake of asking a girl out on Sunday or Monday for the next Friday or Saturday.  I wouldn't talk to them again until the day of the date (I'm a busy guy and I figured, "What's the point? I already secured the date"), only to have them cancel or tell me they thought I lost interest.  Anyway, I would always have to manage perceptions and find the balance between looking needy and looking disinterested.

When I first started messaging FSU women, If I went a day without messaging them, many of them would send me a message saying "I guess you aren't interested."  I think having to talk every day is pretty excessive, especially in the beginning, but "when in Rome" I guess.  Is this the norm out there?  I didn't care about the ones I lost, but if I find someone I really like, I don't want to screw it up.

I also ask this because this girl I have been talking to video chats with me sometimes and makes plans to talk every day, but has been cancelling them.  My gut says to drop her like a bad habit... I wouldn't tolerate this with an American girl.. are Ukrainian women typically flaky like this?  I know women who will do this kind of thing as a game to test you to see how far they can push you. These kinds of games are exhausting....

She's very unlikely to be testing you, not at this stage at least. There is likely to be a specific reason behind her cancelling. At a push I would say she is not that interested in you, possibly another guy local or international has taken up pole position with her. It happens, a girl I was interested in a few months back and was starting  to get a bit interested in well we seemed to be having enjoyable Viber messaging sessions. However, we were only communicating every 2-3 days with me nearly always kicking it off (I wondered why and off course this was not a great sign). Well it turns out there was a good reason why - she was already talking to another WM and told me they were communicating daily and hence couldn't continue further with me. I finished with her amicably as she had an understandable reason - she was just already much further on with another guy. Quite reasonably without feeling a much stronger urge for me she could hardly be expected to ditch the guy she had no doubt built up much rapport for some guy that had just come along.

So, to your question - Do you need to be messaging daily? If you are hot on her then yes. Skype varies depending on schedules, most & FSW won't do daily, probably once a week is more than enough, quite possibly even longer apart. Messaging can be problematic as FSW tend to have different styles. Some will continue with the messaging once started for hours on & off, some will message full on for a half hour or hour or so. If a girl doesn't respond back much then it is unlikely going to go far with that one. One girl I messaged recently used to get peeved if I broke it off first by saying I had to go to bed, even after an hour or so off messaging. She was very eager & enthusiastic to message me and the rapport looked good, I Skyped with her and it continued. So I went to meet her for a long weekend - there was no chemistry, lol, so we mutually & amicably decided to call it a day.

That's the problem of the 'Visit One' method, you WILL get tied into lengthy in depth communication before you even see each other in person physically on a visit. Some guys like this, for the first time out or so it's not a bad way to check out the country/city. I don't mind it but it's a lot of labour input which goes to waste the moment no chemistry is established on arrival, unless you are lucky and there is. Myself I'm past wanting to hear all about how biggles the cat is with some girl that will likely turn out to be someone I have no chemistry with, it's just very frustrating after a few goes at it on a VO. That's why I'm going to switch to a 'Visit Many' strategy for my next attempt.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 01, 2018, 04:56:19 PM
That's what he tells us ;) ....      :rolleyes:

Seriously, whether you're Mr Smooth talkin' or Netvous Ned - WMVM has the potential to go tits up

Cyprus has a population closer to a million, now - but this is a true story...

Back in 2003, two ethnic RU ladies were lying on the beach, chatted as ladies do and realised that they were about to be visited on a 'VO' by an American Gentleman

He had told each of them he was 'staying for a week' - a week apart..   He was arriving in three days..

They conspired to met him at the airport, together and I found out about their plan and persuaded them to 'confront' the bloke, online

He cancelled his 'trips' - but then he may never have arrived ?..

The moral of the story is .. surely clear ?



Right, Trechie... are you going to wise up and video-chat, first - or are you still a fan of 'blind dates' ?

Yes, it's called not sticking you beek in other people's business Mobe, lol.

What exactly would these girls said/done to this guy on arrival? There's nothing wrong with meeting more than one woman. One of them on arrival may have found she was very suited to him or they may have both chatted to him and had a very amicable conversation, who knows where that may have led.

Thing is the Russian community in Cyprus is no doubt more aware of each other than they are in a large FSU city. Regardless though I would rather follow a process that stacked chance in my favour rather than get caught up on stuff that might go wrong and the downsides.

Rapport before meeting is good and girls mah flake on a guy they had little previous communication with but a blind date is not necessarily a problem, you just have to realise that all variety of people can turn up. Some will be my cup of tea, and some won't, vice versa, it's just the way it is.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 01, 2018, 05:10:36 PM



And they are all desperate by definition. There is war there! Women want out ASAP! They dont care how many of them you are going to see in one trip as long as you take one of them out of that mess.

None of the women I have met in Ukraine seemed desperate to get out. Not so much so that they would commit themselves being with any guy to get out. One was even from Mariupol near the front line, she seemed in no hurry.

People on here tell me all the time that these FSW (Ukrainian girls, etc) don't need saving. Surprises me as the state their country is in - economy, civil conflict in the eastern Ukraine I would not know it. I hear there is some sort of unsteady cease fire there at the moment but if it all blew up like when it first started then perhaps these girls wouldn't think twice of turning away a WM into him or not, of course after they are saved they may see things differently.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: SteveInBoston on November 01, 2018, 05:21:57 PM
Okay, so I am basing a lot of my approach based on my domestic online dating experience, but I sometimes still struggle with what things are different and what things are the same.

In the US, I have found that you have to keep communicating with a girl at least every 2-3 days or they will forget about you or assume you did.  A few times, I made the mistake of asking a girl out on Sunday or Monday for the next Friday or Saturday.  I wouldn't talk to them again until the day of the date (I'm a busy guy and I figured, "What's the point? I already secured the date"), only to have them cancel or tell me they thought I lost interest.  Anyway, I would always have to manage perceptions and find the balance between looking needy and looking disinterested.

When I first started messaging FSU women, If I went a day without messaging them, many of them would send me a message saying "I guess you aren't interested."  I think having to talk every day is pretty excessive, especially in the beginning, but "when in Rome" I guess.  Is this the norm out there?  I didn't care about the ones I lost, but if I find someone I really like, I don't want to screw it up.

I also ask this because this girl I have been talking to video chats with me sometimes and makes plans to talk every day, but has been cancelling them.  My gut says to drop her like a bad habit... I wouldn't tolerate this with an American girl.. are Ukrainian women typically flaky like this?  I know women who will do this kind of thing as a game to test you to see how far they can push you. These kinds of games are exhausting....

BB,

My search started similarly to yours.  I met several from a dating site, and started communicating to them via Whatsapp/Skype.

The 2 women I messaged on Skype were from Russia.  I maintained communication via email, and chatted when they were available.  Due to their work schedule, the time difference, and both were single moms, I only skyped with them twice a week.

There were 5 women or so I messaged on Whatsapp.  Two were...flaky.  One woman, who I was initially interested in, would message often in a day, then disappear for a while.  Two times I thought she wasn't interested, only to get a message from her out of the blue. 

Another lady on Whatsapp was difficult to communicate with.  Mostly one word responses, but she did keep in regular contact.

Only 2 women worked out in the end on Whatsapp.  One in Russia, one in Ukraine.  Initially the girl from Russia and I got along great: we messaged each other constantly and sent video and sound clips, and occasionally talked on video.   I got a 3 year multi entry visitor's visa and made plans to meet her in St Pete, but after a month of chatting she became very jealous.  Odd - we had not met yet...  I told her it wasn't working out and cancelled the trip.

The second woman on Whatsapp:  we started chatting casually, once every few days or so.  Then we chatted more, and I flew to meet her on the 3rd month.   I thought she was out of my league, and that perhaps she just wanted a casual fling.  That's how I set my expectations - if it worked out, great, if it didn't, then I'd have a week+ vacation in a new country with a local guide.   I found out later that she thought about the same - she didn't know if I was the "one" and treated it as a fun getaway with a foreign guy she liked.

Miraculously it worked out.  By the end of the week I knew she was the one, and she thought the same.  I know I lucked out, and that not everyone will have the same result.   But if you know yourself, know what you want, and treat it casual until you discover it's serious, you should have a great time.

Oh, and how to visit many without lying?  Well, it would not work with miss Whatsapp Russia, so I didn't pursue it.  Miss Ukraine, on the other hand, knew that I was probably keeping in contact with other women.  But without knowing me or falling for me, she kept things casual and just accepted me visiting her for a week.  I guess it would be awkward if she developed strong feelings for me and I didn't, but then she wouldn't be the "one" and it's best to move on, yes?

The ladies I chatted with on Skype?  I initially told them I was on a trip to Europe and wouldn't be available for a week, and they didn't push the matter.  After I was sure of Miss Ukraine, I messaged them both and told them I met someone that I believed was my match.  They both graciously wished me good luck with the relationship.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 01, 2018, 05:45:15 PM
girls in Crimea tell me instagram is THE APP to use today
it combines everything
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: rwd123 on November 01, 2018, 11:13:33 PM
And they are all desperate by defibition. THere is war there! Women want out ASAP! They dont care how many of them you are going to see in one trip as long as you take one of them out of that mess.
Many, but not all.

Those who stayed in Syria were the very rich and very poor.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 01, 2018, 11:48:55 PM
BB,

My search started similarly to yours.  I met several from a dating site, and started communicating to them via Whatsapp/Skype.

The 2 women I messaged on Skype were from Russia.  I maintained communication via email, and chatted when they were available.  Due to their work schedule, the time difference, and both were single moms, I only skyped with them twice a week.

There were 5 women or so I messaged on Whatsapp.  Two were...flaky.  One woman, who I was initially interested in, would message often in a day, then disappear for a while.  Two times I thought she wasn't interested, only to get a message from her out of the blue. 

Another lady on Whatsapp was difficult to communicate with.  Mostly one word responses, but she did keep in regular contact.

Only 2 women worked out in the end on Whatsapp.  One in Russia, one in Ukraine.  Initially the girl from Russia and I got along great: we messaged each other constantly and sent video and sound clips, and occasionally talked on video.   I got a 3 year multi entry visitor's visa and made plans to meet her in St Pete, but after a month of chatting she became very jealous.  Odd - we had not met yet...  I told her it wasn't working out and cancelled the trip.

The second woman on Whatsapp:  we started chatting casually, once every few days or so.  Then we chatted more, and I flew to meet her on the 3rd month.   I thought she was out of my league, and that perhaps she just wanted a casual fling.  That's how I set my expectations - if it worked out, great, if it didn't, then I'd have a week+ vacation in a new country with a local guide.   I found out later that she thought about the same - she didn't know if I was the "one" and treated it as a fun getaway with a foreign guy she liked.

Miraculously it worked out.  By the end of the week I knew she was the one, and she thought the same.  I know I lucked out, and that not everyone will have the same result.   But if you know yourself, know what you want, and treat it casual until you discover it's serious, you should have a great time.

Oh, and how to visit many without lying?  Well, it would not work with miss Whatsapp Russia, so I didn't pursue it.  Miss Ukraine, on the other hand, knew that I was probably keeping in contact with other women.  But without knowing me or falling for me, she kept things casual and just accepted me visiting her for a week.  I guess it would be awkward if she developed strong feelings for me and I didn't, but then she wouldn't be the "one" and it's best to move on, yes?

The ladies I chatted with on Skype?  I initially told them I was on a trip to Europe and wouldn't be available for a week, and they didn't push the matter.  After I was sure of Miss Ukraine, I messaged them both and told them I met someone that I believed was my match.  They both graciously wished me good luck with the relationship.

Thanks for some good more good insight!

This whole approach is a work in progress as I go forward.... now I find myself in a similar situation mainly talking to two girls right now.  When I felt the first girl was blowing me off, I started talking more to another girl.  This second girl is really hot for me... too much so.  I think it’s becuase she is younger and not a real experienced dater. She had three degrees and spends most of her time working... I can tell, she is very bright, but kind of nerdy.  She doesn’t like to wear makeup, so I don’t think she gets much attention from a lot of guys... the little bit of attention I have given her has her falling for me.  I hate to toss her aside just because she likes me too much, but I really don’t want to break her heart if it doesn’t work out.

The problem really arose when the first girl came back around. It turns out she has a bad flu and she has been too sick to talk much.  She is back to talking to me regularly, so I will give her the benefit of the doubt and believe her (at least for now).

Both girls have offered to show me around for a week or so, even if it doesn’t work out romantically, so it’s tempting to do a VO trip so I can learn my way around... has anyone done a visit two trip?

To be honest with myself, I like the first girl I was talking with better, and I have seen the advice that I shouldn’t make plans with my #2 choice at all.  The thing is... I don’t even know if my #1 choice is realistic.  This girl is everything I want, plus she is extremely beautiful... I mean too beautiful.

I would hate to pass up on a good thing because I’m chasing after a girl who is not realistic.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on November 02, 2018, 02:51:20 AM


That's the problem of the 'Visit One' method, you WILL get tied into lengthy in depth communication before you even see each other in person physically on a visit.

That's why I'm going to switch to a 'Visit Many' strategy for my next attempt.

There we have it... Trenchie's 'chemistry' is about the physical ;)

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 02, 2018, 06:57:00 AM
None of the women I have met in Ukraine seemed desperate to get out. Not so much so that they would commit themselves being with any guy to get out. One was even from Mariupol near the front line, she seemed in no hurry.

People on here tell me all the time that these FSW (Ukrainian girls, etc) don't need saving. Surprises me as the state their country is in - economy, civil conflict in the eastern Ukraine I would not know it. I hear there is some sort of unsteady cease fire there at the moment but if it all blew up like when it first started then perhaps these girls wouldn't think twice of turning away a WM into him or not, of course after they are saved they may see things differently.


If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quackslike a duck, then it probably is a duck. The country is at war. Full blown war with temporary cease fire periods and "people tell you these girls dont need saving?" PLease think logically.


[/size][/color]
Quote
None of the women I have met in Ukraine seemed desperate to get out
.
[/size]
"seemed" is a key word here.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: SteveInBoston on November 02, 2018, 07:20:35 AM

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quackslike a duck, then it probably is a duck. The country is at war. Full blown war with temporary cease fire periods and "people tell you these girls dont need saving?" PLease think logically.


[/size][/color].
[/size]
"seemed" is a key word here.

Donna, please stop with this nonsense.  Have you been to Ukraine recently? 
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 02, 2018, 07:39:30 AM
look bro, you don’t mind me callin you that do ya, if so speak up...

I was sincerely offering you my help
for two reasons

1. you’re an Army man, I’m an Army man
2. you’re a father of two kids, I’m a father of two kids

although you haven’t talked about it
I assume you have at least partial custody of your kids
and that deep down you know your kids would benefit if you had a woman’s help
ok...

I have more SUCCESSFUL experience at doing what you’re planning on
in the place you’re planning on doing it in
then the rest of this board put together
and that’s a 100% fact
anyone who says otherwise is bullshitting you, ok
yeah...yeah...
my detractors will tell you my info is out of date
but, not true, and I am on skype every week with my friend and business partner in Kyiv
I feel it’s pulse like my own

when I was a boy, my English grandfather would call a person whose gross inexperience became particularly obvious a “lord help us”

I could critique what you just wrote, dissect it layer by layer, and list the many mistakes therein
but don’t worry, I wont....

just know that after I read it, my palm hit my forehead
and I loudly exclaimed
“lord help us”

OK?

I know you think I’ve been too harsh on you
as I said, I’m not here to stroke your ego
just give you the facts and tell you the truth
and don’t care if that upsets you (it should actually)

now the beard and I have a problem!
by American standards it couldn’t be any better
by Ukrainian standards it’s awful

I think the beard has picked up on the fact that I don’t like it
so it’s telling you NOT to listen to me
but newsflash, it’s just trying to protect itself
it doesn’t REALLY care about you or your kids
don’t trust what it’s telling you

but hey that’s up to you bro



Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on November 02, 2018, 09:16:24 AM
Some people can talk endlessly for hours. I'm not one of those people. On some subjects I can talk a fair while but people who can talk endlessly for hours has always made me curious about how they manage it. It just seems like a strange phenomena to my mind.

People romantically interested in each other can find important things to talk about especially
early on. If you want an empty headed arm trophy who won't spend any of your money then
why would you need to talk to a girl.

If you want to find a woman to share your life with then there is a lot to talk about when you
find a good prospect, you have a ton to talk about. Are you thinking of procreating? There are
a thousand subjects of conversation if the answer is no and ten thousand if the answer is yes.

Being reluctant to talk to a woman that you are seriously considering as a future mate is mind
numbingly stupid. How do you expect to find a compatible mate? There are men who do exactly
what you want to do.

They pick a girl who is hotter than they would be able to locally get and then they get married
and then they get divorced and come to this very forum complaining that the woman they
married did X, Y and Z and refused to do A, B and C. How did they NOT discuss X, Y and Z
and the rest of the alphabet before they got married? Answer, they had theories like Trenchcoat.

Your aversion to conversation is going to doom your finding a compatible mate. Your tactics will
cause most good girls to pass on you, leaving only those with questionable reasons for being
interested in you.
 
You want to skip a step but you can't. In order to find a good girl who is compatible you have
to talk to her.

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 02, 2018, 09:31:34 AM
Donna, please stop with this nonsense.  Have you been to Ukraine recently?




You deny the fact of war or economic collapse in Ukrain?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on November 02, 2018, 09:44:23 AM
Sorry to the OP I usually skip over Trenchcoat's insights.


Think it makes sense that a fair amount are out for fun as some women will even meet
you on the hoof you have hardly corresponded to out there just out of interest/fun in
meeting a WM.

Not to say of course that there aren't any serious ones out there but I think a fair amount
do just do it for the fun of it without really realising the guy is serious and they are potentially
making a PIA of themselves for the guy.

Trench,

Imagine how much fun a girl is having, she getting contacted by men thirty years older
and 50 pounds overweight and by men who live in their mothers basement with fake
photos and others with dick pic's that they've photoshopped. She is contacted by
married men and men who just want to see her tits.

What she is doing is sifting through the garbage trying to find someone real who isn't a
weirdo, married or worse. To find her diamond in the rough a girl has to dig through a lot
of dirt and rock. Sound like a blast?   

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 02, 2018, 10:22:34 AM
You deny the fact of war or economic collapse in Ukrain?

I am just back from 2 months in Ukraine and Russia. It’s not the 1990’s.  There will always be women who will trade their youth for the opportunity to move abroad. However, there are opportunities for Ukrainians (and Russians, for that matter) that don’t require a man as a passport. I see a lot of Ukrainian emigres in my city, often families. There a also significant numbers of temporary foreign workers, which is a path to citizenship.

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 02, 2018, 11:15:23 AM
I am just back from 2 months in Ukraine and Russia. It’s not the 1990’s.  There will always be women who will trade their youth for the opportunity to move abroad. However, there are opportunities for Ukrainians (and Russians, for that matter) that don’t require a man as a passport. I see a lot of Ukrainian emigres in my city, often families. There a also significant numbers of temporary foreign workers, which is a path to citizenship.


Yeh, oppotunities all right. Cruise ships, caregivers to old disabled people in EU.  My friend employes a few on his properties in Moscow area. washing toilets and shoveling manure for food, accomodation and a little spendiung money. When they  start asking for more  he fires them and brings another couple from the same Ukrainian village - there is never a shortage of candidates.  I meet alot of them on RW groups on FB. They can bs you, and you are free to buy it,  but it wont fly among RW.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 02, 2018, 11:34:04 AM
"...oppotunities all right"

sergei Brin - born in Kyiv
how many toilets does he clean per day

my paternal grandfather left Ukraine as a small child because of Russian persecution at the end of the 19th century
I'm glad he did
cuz if he stayed
and if somehow against all odds I had been born and survived
and found myself livin in Ukraine today

I'd be in Eastern Ukraine killin Russian MFers every single damned day they were in my country
since I was born in America
instead, I handed out old iphones to my wife's relatives in the Russian Army of the Western Military District
phones have tracking enabled
I personally know the deployment of several regiments of the army of the Russian Federation and check them daily
and so do others...

Putin is getting lower in the polls, how much longer to a war?

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 02, 2018, 12:09:02 PM
Sergei Brin grew up in the US, largely.

You are seeing Ukrainians who don’t wish to learn another language. But none of those jobs are demeaning, are they?

I am a professional. I know Ukrainians here working in IT, in law (both lawyers and paralegals), as chartered accountants, teachers, nurses, and doctors. Our son’s math professor, about 32, is from Kyiv.

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 02, 2018, 12:27:28 PM
BO

happy to see you return safely home
don't listen to this Russian rascist
who hates every culture but Russian
after reading her old posts
she is clearly one of the most delusional people ever to have posted on this board

so BO
what about the election
mood for Maidan II, potential?
war with Russia
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GQBlues on November 02, 2018, 01:42:52 PM
Somebody is going to get that perfect girl. Why not you? Make sure she likes you as much as you like her. Girl #2 seems to really like you though. The other girl may seem better overall but girl #2 may try harder to make you happier. Girl #1 excuse she was ill may be true but if you're important to her, she should've went on the internet to let you know and not to worry. Wouldn't you do the same for her? As long as communications continue to go well with both girls, see them both.

If it were me, I'd give equal chance/opportunity to Girl #3 & #4, #5 if available, etc...Chances are high they're doing the same thing with our bachelor #1.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: SteveInBoston on November 02, 2018, 02:01:17 PM



You deny the fact of war or economic collapse in Ukrain?

"Full blown war":  The separatist rebellion in Donbass.  Armed conflict in 2014, ceasefire with occasional pot shot and artillery shells in the border region, mostly west of Donetsk.  It is hell for people living in the border zone.

Sorry, it is not a full blown war.   How could I tell?  By not being bombed and riddled with bullets as I visited various cities, even a nice town near Berdyans'k.  No soldiers in site, no tanks, no fleeing refugees.  Unless those scantily clad girls on the beaches of the Azov sea were soldiers in disguise...


Economic collapse:   Inflation in Ukraine rose to 14% in 2014, skyrocketed to 48% in 2015, down to about 14% again in 2016, 2017.  2018 is projected at 11%.   1 USD was 8.25 UAH at the end of 2013.  Now 1 USD is 28.17 UAH.  Wopping 240% drop in value.  Unemployment rate was about 6.5 % before 2014, peaked to almost 11% in 2015, and is now around 9.5%.

Economic situation is bad in Ukraine, and many blame the rebellion as well as government corruption.  But not a collapse.  I was in Kyiv at the UEFA Championship between Liverpool and Madrid.  Roads were improved, the stadium looked nice (I didn't have tickets to the game).  Tons of traffic as people were going to/from work. 

So, please stop with the total war and disaster and people desperate to flee nonsense.   Only idiots from US/UK/Australia fall for that malarkey, sending $1000's of dollars to their sweet Natalia who needs to bribe the officials to get the visa and plane ticket to leaver their horrible situation and finally be with their one true love...

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 02, 2018, 02:12:18 PM
not all wars are based on WWII
Russia has a new methodology of warfare
called Hybrid war
it is waging it full blast against Ukraine at this very moment


http://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/01/world/europe/russia-ukraine-ties-sour-further-as-moscow-imposes-sanctions.html
http://economics.unian.info/10309569-sanctions-announced-how-will-russia-hit-ukrainian-economy.html
http://economics.unian.info/10309569-sanctions-announced-how-will-russia-hit-ukrainian-economy.html

next yr Ukraine will lose 3 billion/yr gas transit
after losing Donbas it's major exporter
and Crimea
and now trade with Russia

how dare Ukraine stand up for itself after it was invaded
please do not call the Russian soldiers in Eastern Ukraine separatists

Russian FSB provided weapons to a Russian mobster to take over Crimean parliament, steal voting keys, name himself Prime Minister, which he still is
please do not call this an election


Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: SteveInBoston on November 02, 2018, 02:24:26 PM

please do not call the Russian soldiers in Eastern Ukraine separatists


Hi Krim, I know you are passionate about this issue, but the region is manned by both Donbass separatists and russian soldiers, not just russian soldiers.  And the people there who have remained are mostly pro-Russian.  There are some pro-Ukrainians still there, but few.  Those who could left when the conflict started. 

My fiance is from Donetsk.  She still has a business there - a retail store.  She lives near Berdyansk, but travels to Donetsk every month or so to check in on her parents (who are pro-Russian) and her store.   Her 3 major complaints are the russians in her city, the separatist soldiers, and the 4+ hour delay to cross the border.  She recently solved the 3rd issue by taking a special taxi service that gets past the separatist check point in about 30 minutes or so - with a special taxi service access "tariff" the guy pays every month...

Her sister moved to Kyiv with her husband and kids, and her friends moved to Dnipre, Berdyansk or Kharkiv.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 02, 2018, 08:40:09 PM
Economic collapse:   Inflation in Ukraine rose to 14% in 2014, skyrocketed to 48% in 2015, down to about 14% again in 2016, 2017.  2018 is projected at 11%.   1 USD was 8.25 UAH at the end of 2013.  Now 1 USD is 28.17 UAH.  Wopping 240% drop in value.  Unemployment rate was about 6.5 % before 2014, peaked to almost 11% in 2015, and is now around 9.5%.

Economic situation is bad in Ukraine, and many blame the rebellion as well as government corruption.  But not a collapse.  I was in Kyiv at the UEFA Championship between Liverpool and Madrid.  Roads were improved, the stadium looked nice (I didn't have tickets to the game).  Tons of traffic as people were going to/from work. 


As it happens I do have relatives in Ukraine too. When I call, all I hear is   begging  me to arrange  a nice american guy to marry for their daughters and granddaughters.  Does not matter what guy it is,  as long as he is able and willing to get the girls out. So forgive me, if I am still inclined to trust my  family more. 
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 02, 2018, 09:13:29 PM
the Russians fighting in Eastern Ukraine are not “separatists”
there is no such thing as separatism
Ukraine has a constitution
constitution says, you want to leave Ukraine
you hold a referendum
voted upon by ALL the people in Ukraine
not just a few
this is the LAW
if you take up arms against your own duly elected government
you’re a bit more than a separatist
you can’t say you’re a freedom fighter, if you’re free to leave
if you follow the constitution

in Crimea, it was decided by 30 armed men supplied with weapons by Russia
to takeover the Ukrainian Parliament late at night
take the voting keys and vote their leader as the new PM of Crimea

Little Green men, soon appeared, they were called local self defense forces
except their vehicles all had Moscow license plates

Eastern Ukraine is just a repeat of this
except this time Ukraine is fighting back

no one supports Ukraine in the DNPR
you can’t!
any such display of support
even wearing the flag of your country in your own country
will land you in jail in the DNPR
after you had your beatdown

there is almost no industry left in Donbas, no infrastructure
the only jobs are as a paid soldier in the DNPR
if I lived there, I’d have to feed my family
what else could I do but join up

a second after Russia pulls out its troops
stops paying for and sending mercenaries
stops sending weapons and support to terrorists
this war will end, literally one second...


Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 03, 2018, 04:19:24 AM

As it happens I do have relatives in Ukraine too. When I call, all I hear is   begging  me to arrange  a nice american guy to marry for their daughters and granddaughters.  Does not matter what guy it is,  as long as he is able and willing to get the girls out. So forgive me, if I am still inclined to trust my  family more.

Or men in the UK perhaps? :)

This may be an opportune moment to help them out. Many guys on here not just those commenting but those quietly viewing too are seriously looking for a girl in Ukraine. If you post up a link to their profile I'm sure they may get some interest from guys on here. Most of the guys on here seriously want to meet a girl and aren't sex tourists, already married or other dubious intent. I don't doubt your Ukrainian relatives want out and whlie a guy doesn't purely want to be used as an immigration mule most women on International dating sites normally have some agenda in addition to finding the right guy. I see no reason why given a few visitations they can't find the right foreign guy and leave Ukraine.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 03, 2018, 08:36:35 AM
I hate to interrupt this fascinating  discussion on war, but...

I have couple insights in my very limited online experience.  I don’t see any women acting desperate.  Maybe they are good at hiding it.  I have initiated conversations with women and it goes well for awhile... but some loose interest after awhile and the conversation slowly dies off.  I would think desperate women would be talking to 100 guys every day until one finally comes to rescue them.

My personal dilemma talking to two girls on an emotional level (yea its my fault and I shouldn’t have created this situation) is becoming difficult to manage.  Only one knows that I am going there for sure later this month.  She is the mature one who knows not to ask about other girls.  I just told her I will be in town and want to spend a specific day with her. She was fine with that.  I really like her, but I have a strong feeling her interest level is just high enough to meet me (her words are very convincing, but her actions speak otherwise).  This is not enough to disqualify her.

I mentioned on the phone to the other girl about “possibly” visiting Ukraine later this month.  She said she can only get only get a day or two off work, so I should wait until January.  I told her that’s okay. I have some business contacts that I have never met in person with that I want to see, and that I want to explore the city by myself and I’m sure I can meet people and make Friends.  I don’t need a babysitter.  She immediately (joking) said, “Oh, yea... I’m sure you will make plenty of ‘friends’ while you are here.”

Since I talk every day with both girls, it would be impossible to go to Ukraine without them (eventually) knowing.  I have probably created a situation where I have to choose between the two before I even go, but I don’t want to!

Lastly, I think hearing all these warnings about scammers and such has mad me a little too suspicious.  The more shy girl would talk on the phone, but would never video chat.  She was so resistant that I became very suspicious (also, I have been catfished in the US).  We finally did video and I could tell she was so nervous and shy.  It was painful for her!  She wasn’t scamming me or anything... she just hates video.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GQBlues on November 03, 2018, 08:55:37 AM
I hate to interrupt this fascinating  discussion on war, but...

I have couple insights in my very limited online experience.  I don’t see any women acting desperate.  Maybe they are good at hiding it.  I have initiated conversations with women and it goes well for awhile... but some loose interest after awhile and the conversation slowly dies off.  I would think desperate women would be talking to 100 guys every day until one finally comes to rescue them.

My personal dilemma talking to two girls on an emotional level (yea its my fault and I shouldn’t have created this situation) is becoming difficult to manage.  Only one knows that I am going there for sure later this month.  She is the mature one who knows not to ask about other girls.  I just told her I will be in town and want to spend a specific day with her. She was fine with that.  I really like her, but I have a strong feeling her interest level is just high enough to meet me (her words are very convincing, but her actions speak otherwise).  This is not enough to disqualify her.

I mentioned on the phone to the other girl about “possibly” visiting Ukraine later this month.  She said she can only get only get a day or two off work, so I should wait until January.  I told her that’s okay. I have some business contacts that I have never met in person with that I want to see, and that I want to explore the city by myself and I’m sure I can meet people and make Friends.  I don’t need a babysitter.  She immediately (joking) said, “Oh, yea... I’m sure you will make plenty of ‘friends’ while you are here.”

Since I talk every day with both girls, it would be impossible to go to Ukraine without them (eventually) knowing.  I have probably created a situation where I have to choose between the two before I even go, but I don’t want to!

Lastly, I think hearing all these warnings about scammers and such has mad me a little too suspicious.  The more shy girl would talk on the phone, but would never video chat.  She was so resistant that I became very suspicious (also, I have been catfished in the US).  We finally did video and I could tell she was so nervous and shy.  It was painful for her!  She wasn’t scamming me or anything... she just hates video.

You had the board (at least me) believe you're a 'seasoned' dater. You're not. Not even close.

Forget WMVM. You don't have the personality, presence of mind or wits about you to succeed doing that approach. Go WOVO. That'll be your best chance in doing this.

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 03, 2018, 09:16:17 AM
You had the board (at least me) believe you're a 'seasoned' dater. You're not. Not even close.

Forget WMVM. You don't have the personality, presence of mind or wits about you to succeed doing that approach. Go WOVO. That'll be your best chance in doing this.

*****
An aside...

What happened to BillyB's post I quoted on reply # 109 @ 2:42.52 yesterday? I thought RWD doesn't 'delete' post/s?

I’m sorry if you feel I have misled the board.  I’m not sure what “seasoned” is.... in the past three years, I have dated roughly 50 women and have had sex with 20 of them... I have had a few of those relationships last about 3 months.  Of course, I was also married twice and dated extensively before that.  Maybe I’m not experienced by your standards, but I wouldn’t say I’m completely inexperienced.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 03, 2018, 09:43:11 AM
Or men in the UK perhaps? :)

 I see no reason why given a few visitations they can't find the right foreign guy and leave Ukraine.


One word - competition. And no, I am not going to help them out. There are way too many ukranian women around for my taste.



Quote
She is the mature one who knows not to ask about other girls.  I

THats true. The girl knows that half a chance is better than no chance at all..

Btw, all this situations are RWG 101. There is a number of groups on FB  led by women, who are teaching women how to properly handle long distance relationships. Not showing that you are very interested is an ABC. If you appear desperate you lose a lot of leverage. How do you show a man that you are not desperate? Do not cancel your plans or take time off work just because he came to visit. :P
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 03, 2018, 10:08:26 AM

One word - competition. And no, I am not going to help them out. There are way too many ukranian women around for my taste.



THats true. The girl knows that half a chance is better than no chance at all..

Btw, all this situations are RWG 101. There is a number of groups on FB  led by women, who are teaching women how to properly handle long distance relationships. Not showing that you are very interested is an ABC. If you appear desperate you lose a lot of leverage. How do you show a man that you are not desperate? Do not cancel your plans or take time off work just because he came to visit. :P

Sorry, I have not read the 101 lately. I will go back and read it again.  I would love to see one of these RW sites.  This one girl does seem like she’s going by some sort of playbook. I wouldn’t be surprised if she is in one of these FB groups.

Thanks
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 03, 2018, 10:34:04 AM
BB, keep both girls in play, either see both, one for a couple of days then the other or go see one and have thd other as backup. If there is no chemistry with first girl you can call it a day with her and you've got the other girl to call up. I think GQ means that for FSU dating stuff can get a bit more complex so you've got to learn you're way around the dating scene out there. A girl that you're hot on here can quickly turn into a dud when you're there in person.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 03, 2018, 11:39:20 AM
"I’m sorry if you feel I have misled the board.  I’m not sure what “seasoned” is.... in the past three years, I have dated roughly 50 women and have had sex with 20 of them... I have had a few of those relationships last about 3 months. "

IF the above statement is true, then

1. in the past 3 yr you've dated on average 1 new woman every 3 weeks
2. if the longest lasting relationship was 12 weeks, we'll call this variable max(T)
3. and if we assume min(T) to be zero
4. sample size S = 50
5. a discrete probability distribution would indicate that out of 50 women, only 1 out of 4 had a second date or greater with you
    which means you get "shot down" on average 3 out of 4 times on 1st dates, by women in "your own league"
    I could make a secondary derivative distribution that shows the average probability of you getting shot down on any given date is close to 90%

all in all, a very unusual if not downright puzzling dating profile
thanks for sharing








Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on November 03, 2018, 12:00:58 PM
Sorry, I have not read the 101 lately. I will go back and read it again.  I would love to see one of these RW sites.  This one girl does seem like she’s going by some sort of playbook. I wouldn’t be surprised if she is in one of these FB groups.

Thanks

The sites are in Russian. I translated a large part of it on another forum. You can go here
and find all sorts of advice for the ladies (in Russian)

http://www.elenasmodels.com/ru/
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 03, 2018, 12:31:41 PM
The sites are in Russian. I translated a large part of it on another forum. You can go here
and find all sorts of advice for the ladies (in Russian)

http://www.elenasmodels.com/ru/

As always, I am very thankful for your constructive help and advice.  I’d much rather ask my stupid questions here and learn at home than to learn the hard way by making these mistakes in real life.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 03, 2018, 01:04:36 PM
when the results you get in Kyiv, are the same results you got in Chicago
will you then realize
that the fault is not "in your stars"
nor in 50 different women
but within YOU

you’ll never get a fix on her heart
until you “click”
50 Chicago women, you didn’t click with at least 1?
“possible, how could it be”, Yoda asked

or will you still be in denial about this
my money's TOTALLY on denial, I'll take 3-1 odds
takers?

so do you want us to try and help you diagnose?
or do you prefer to remain ill?

by any chance do you get "some kind of rush" on breaking up with someone?
does that lead to "Premature Breakup Syndrome"

searching for an explanation of 50 failed experiments
the thread that winds through them all?

OMG!

I didn't GET IT until just now!!!
BrownBeard isn't his Avatar!
the BEARD is actually the one writing here and NOT a human!
it's why it got freaked out, when I said to cut it off
sorry, beard,
how did you become conscious?
is the human you're attached to still conscious as well
or do you control the body all by yourself?
OMG!

I can see what the women must think!
"like, OMG Jennifer, I felt like he wasn't ALL there y'know"
"like I was talkin to his beard the whole evening"

cuz she was!
the beard is able to control its host's facial movements to mimic speech
while utilizing its own high pitched squeaky voice for conversation
but unfortunately the beard is not quite as smart as an actual human in producing conversational dialog
so it gives weird answers to typical dating questions
such as
"what kind of hobbies do you have"?
when presented with that very question
the beard responded in its typical high pitched voice
"tennis! andddddd horeseback riding anddddd doing them both together at the same time! yaya dada bleee"
it would also get the lip sync alignment about half a second behind adding to the strangeness of the response
the longest running 3 month relationship was with a deaf woman who liked to stroke the beard





Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GQBlues on November 03, 2018, 05:44:12 PM
I’m sorry if you feel I have misled the board.  I’m not sure what “seasoned” is.... in the past three years, I have dated roughly 50 women and have had sex with 20 of them... I have had a few of those relationships last about 3 months.  Of course, I was also married twice and dated extensively before that.  Maybe I’m not experienced by your standards, but I wouldn’t say I’m completely inexperienced.

No apologies necessary. Moreover, don't take my post as anything other than a suggestion. A suggestion that I feel is fitting based on your written posts. There is no 'standard' to measure. Only people doing the things they're capable of doing.

You're personality and disposition, IMHO, is a good 'fit' as a WOVO.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 03, 2018, 06:30:36 PM

You're personality and disposition, IMHO, is a good 'fit' as a WOVO.

Point well taken!  I agree with you on those points entirely.  The only reasons I even think about WMVM is my desire for efficiency and the fact that I am risk averse (want to avoid wasting too much time and money)  The thought of my only date bombing on day one when I am in Ukraine for a week kind of sucks... but there is much good advice on how to turn it into a WMVM on the spot.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: SteveInBoston on November 03, 2018, 06:37:08 PM

One word - competition. And no, I am not going to help them out. There are way too many ukranian women around for my taste.




Wow.  You believe your family.  Your family has asked you for help, because they are desperate to leave their horrible and dangerous situation.   And you are not going to help them out...because they are Ukrainian. 

Я все понимаю



Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: SteveInBoston on November 03, 2018, 06:52:16 PM
Point well taken!  I agree with you on those points entirely.  The only reasons I even think about WMVM is my desire for efficiency and the fact that I am risk averse (want to avoid wasting too much time and money)  The thought of my only date bombing on day one when I am in Ukraine for a week kind of sucks... but there is much good advice on how to turn it into a WMVM on the spot.


BB, sorry about getting off topic a bit there. 

I think what GQ meant was that the WMVM approach requires less focus on what the other person might think or feel and more about being confident and taking charge of the discussion if she asks about other women or your plans when you are not meeting her.  If you feel awkward or nervous about mentioning other women, or simply saying you have other plans, then WOVO is more for you.

I'm mostly a WOVO guy.  Actually, I guess WMVO guy?  I kept communication with other women, while visiting the one.   I told the other ladies I was away on a trip in Europe, and didn't communicate with the during the week I spent with Ms. T.  If Ms. T didn't work out, I had plans or would make plans to visit the others, but not on the same trip.

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 03, 2018, 07:14:16 PM
hey Beard,

what I want to know is how ya did it man
especially how you hid the fact from a 44 yr old grown assed man
that if he put some alcohol on you and shaved you off
he'd look 10 yr younger
and could date wimmin' 10 yr younger (duhhhh)!

how did you prevent him from finding that out?
now he HAS to date older women because of YOU beard!
how do you pull it off, keeping him out of the loop like that?
you are the smartest and greatest beard ever!


 
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on November 03, 2018, 07:43:19 PM
The only reasons I even think about WMVM is my desire for efficiency and the fact that I am risk averse (want to avoid wasting too much time and money)  The thought of my only date bombing on day one when I am in Ukraine for a week kind of sucks... but there is much good advice on how to turn it into a WMVM on the spot.

There are times when a guy wants to do a WMVM but then communicates with a woman and it's absolutely perfect and she's perfect. He doesn't want to lose her so he visits only her. That's alright. But if it doesn't work out, a guy can write to girls on Mamba.ru and get schedule dates within hours.

I noticed one of my posts in this thread is missing. The games continue. Somebody likes to delete my stuff here. I'm going to start posting in my signature line so it's untouchable...unless that person can get into members accounts.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 03, 2018, 08:08:16 PM
There are times when a guy wants to do a WMVM but then communicates with a woman and it's absolutely perfect and she's perfect. He doesn't want to lose her so he visits only her. That's alright. But if it doesn't work out, a guy can write to girls on Mamba.ru and get schedule dates within hours.

I noticed one of my posts in this thread is missing. The games continue. Somebody likes to delete my stuff here. I'm going to start posting in my signature line so it's untouchable...unless that person can get into members accounts.

Billy,

I’m glad at this post made it though!  I appreciate your advice and patience with me.  Most people here are very helpful and realize the learning curve is different for all of us.  I will probably always be a WM guy... I’m always writing to girls, even if I have a date pending... until I’m actually “dating” a girl.

I have played on mamba and badoo and have started a lot of conversations with quite a few attractive women.  They remind me a lot of Tinder back home.  The girls seem to lose interest when they find out I’m not in Ukraine right now.  Some are like “Give me a call when you are in town”.  It doesn’t seem too hard to get dates this way... although I suspect most of these girls are not marriage minded... but I guess it’s better than sitting in my apartment alone.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 03, 2018, 08:18:44 PM

BB, sorry about getting off topic a bit there. 

I think what GQ meant was that the WMVM approach requires less focus on what the other person might think or feel and more about being confident and taking charge of the discussion if she asks about other women or your plans when you are not meeting her.  If you feel awkward or nervous about mentioning other women, or simply saying you have other plans, then WOVO is more for you.

I'm mostly a WOVO guy.  Actually, I guess WMVO guy?  I kept communication with other women, while visiting the one.   I told the other ladies I was away on a trip in Europe, and didn't communicate with the during the week I spent with Ms. T.  If Ms. T didn't work out, I had plans or would make plans to visit the others, but not on the same trip.

You are right on topic.  I would say my personality is like you in that WMVO sounds about right.  The problem is that instead of narrowing it down to one, I have narrowed it down to two. One of them would be turned off if she knew I was visiting other women. I think it actually turns the other one on. It makes me more of a catch and more desirable. I think she really likes the challenge.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 03, 2018, 08:26:50 PM
beards...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on November 03, 2018, 08:47:24 PM
I have played on mamba and badoo and have started a lot of conversations with quite a few attractive women.  They remind me a lot of Tinder back home.  The girls seem to lose interest when they find out I’m not in Ukraine right now.  Some are like “Give me a call when you are in town”.  It doesn’t seem too hard to get dates this way... although I suspect most of these girls are not marriage minded... but I guess it’s better than sitting in my apartment alone.

Mamba is geared for local dating. If you're in town, many FSU would love the opportunity to date a foreign man at least once in their life. Bride.ru advertises on Mamba and some girls who'd consider an international relations will sign up on Bride.ru for that purpose.

Mamba has hookers, girls looking for a sponsor, girls who want a short term relationship, and girls who want marriage. Some girls are open to any of those type of relationships based on the guy and the moment. Since you're looking for a partner for life, you have to get into the heads of ladies you date to figure them out. Separate the wheat from the chaff. Just because a woman is looking for marriage now doesn't mean she's always been a family oriented woman. Men have reported some women at marriage agencies once worked in the commercial sex industry. You don't want a woman that has opened her legs for thousands of men, with many of those men coming from the worst elements of society.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 03, 2018, 08:59:17 PM
Mamba is geared for local dating. If you're in town, many FSU would love the opportunity to date a foreign man at least once in their life. Bride.ru advertises on Mamba and some girls who'd consider an international relations will sign up on Bride.ru for that purpose.

Mamba has hookers, girls looking for a sponsor, girls who want a short term relationship, and girls who want marriage. Some girls are open to any of those type of relationships based on the guy and the moment. Since you're looking for a partner for life, you have to get into the heads of ladies you date to figure them out. Separate the wheat from the chaff. Just because a woman is looking for marriage now doesn't mean she's always been a family oriented woman. Men have reported some women at marriage agencies once worked in the commercial sex industry. You don't want a woman that has opened her legs for thousands of men, with many of those men coming from the worst elements of society.
So basically mamba girls are a combination of girls on eHarmony, Match, Tinder, and craigslist...  I guess I can try and do a little pre-sorting ahead of time.  I have never put too much hope in a Tinder date, but it can go well. I guess I shouldn’t  put too much hope in mamba either.  Thanks for the heads up.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 03, 2018, 10:01:06 PM
"it makes me more of a catch and more desirable"

The beard does not make the sage!

hey beard, what if you get stuck in a "time vortex" in Kyiv
and end up back in the year 1710, when Peter The Great
had a prohibition against beards

youd'd be instantly guillotined with a pair of scissors
like all the rest, OFF with his beard!!!

it's tough allright
trying to extrapolate the shape of the whole puzzle
from just a few pieces
but I think I just about got it!

if you give me one or two more pieces
I'll have it totally nailed, TOTALLY know why
why this always works out the same way for you

--OR--
maybe you'd prefer NOT to know
before your big trip to Ukraine
your last hope...

so what's it gonna be hmmm

side note on Amsterdam

you want to stay a little North of RijksMuseum
somewhere around Prinzengracht
check out rooms on AirBnb
you want to only buy weed at the “The Coffee Shop Easy Times”
if you get the blond barristra, tell her Krimster sends his love
she’ll give you a little extra weed for that

side note on weed, sure if you're old school, bongs or big blunts
but there's new things now
dab rig
if you know how to sport one, go for it AND coffee
any single women in the place, "wink at em" and invite em over

I smoked some shatter with a Russian girl from St Petersburg at the EasyTimes
sit in the back on the left



Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on November 03, 2018, 10:07:27 PM
So basically mamba girls are a combination of girls on eHarmony, Match, Tinder, and craigslist...


Backpage and Ashley Madison included in that combination. It's up to you to figure out the ladies there and date the girls you prefer. Some FSU women said a very high percentage of men contacting them on Mamba aren't serious and only looking for sex. If you come across as a decent and serious guy, you should have no problem beating the competition and getting a date.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 03, 2018, 11:41:24 PM
ok, now I get it, the fact that out of all the people here, you chose Billy to communicate with
because you are both "on the same level"
that's the last missing piece of the puzzle I needed to understand your problem

I now know with 100% confidence why your "dates" don't work out

You know what it is?
well, I'm not going to tell you!!!!
ah hhhahahahaha

it's always strange when people are so unaware of themselves
spoken without any sense of irony, intentional or otherwise

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on November 03, 2018, 11:53:42 PM
a guy can write to girls on Mamba.ru and get schedule dates within hours.

Here we go - AGAIN ?

Only a fool and BillyB still think mamba.ru is a good place to search for a wife

1/ BillyB wouldn't know - as he's been married to a lady he met on Mamba nearly a decade ago.

2/ I know, as does rwd123 - that mamba now sucks - as we both speak better Russian than BillyB, and visit the FSU

The games continue. Somebody likes to delete my stuff here. I'm going to start posting in my signature line so it's untouchable...unless that person can get into members accounts.

Silly BillyB - one of my posts got deleted, too - the difference is I accept why and move on ...

You do know that mods elsewhere change one's profile photo and your signature line and lock it - when one uses the signature line as a 'protest'

So be careful what you wish for ;)
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: rwd123 on November 04, 2018, 02:20:02 AM
Only a fool and BillyB still think mamba.ru is a good place to search for a wife
Not to start a religious war but,

Mamba is more for local dating.  I read an article that only 8% of Russian women are interested in foreign men. So let's say 10% of profiles.

Of those you'll be lucky to have 1 in 5 speak English. Which brings down to 2% of profiles.

You can probably account for at least half the profiles for women not looking for serious relations or looking for a sponsor, or simply fake profiles. Down to 1%.

Then you'll have number of active users, let's be optimistic and say half. That's 0.5%.

Then if you're selective you may only get interest from 1 in 5 women to you write to. That's 0.1% of profiles, or one in every thousand.

(If you keep the beard you may drop to 1 in 10, or 0.01% of profiles - 1 in 10,000).

So yes you can find decent women on mamba but you'll likely experience a better response rate elsewhere.

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on November 04, 2018, 02:33:42 AM
Thank you, rwd123

You put it better and with less exasperated emotion than I could.

I hope any newbie seeking advice will realise which poster knows what he is talking about.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 04, 2018, 02:59:19 AM
Not to start a religious war but,

Mamba is more for local dating.  I read an article that only 8% of Russian women are interested in foreign men. So let's say 10% of profiles.

Of those you'll be lucky to have 1 in 5 speak English. Which brings down to 2% of profiles.

You can probably account for at least half the profiles for women not looking for serious relations or looking for a sponsor, or simply fake profiles. Down to 1%.

Then you'll have number of active users, let's be optimistic and say half. That's 0.5%.

Then if you're selective you may only get interest from 1 in 5 women to you write to. That's 0.1% of profiles, or one in every thousand.

(If you keep the beard you may drop to 1 in 10, or 0.01% of profiles - 1 in 10,000).

So yes you can find decent women on mamba but you'll likely experience a better response rate elsewhere.
My response rate is not that bad on Mamba. I have had conversations with many women who speak English and tell me they are looking for a relationship... and I haven’t written tens of thousands of messages... perhaps a couple dozen.

Again, my problem isn’t finding available women who are interested in me.  The problem is filtering through the women to find the right one for me.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 04, 2018, 03:13:09 AM
Thank you, rwd123

You put it better and with less exasperated emotion than I could.

I hope any newbie seeking advice will realise which poster knows what he is talking about.
Of course, some members’ advice carries more weight than others. I don’t blindly listen to any one person.  That would be foolish.  I do appreciate the lively debate that offers multiple perspectives.

I appreciate that most people on here are just trying to help. Fortunately, the nature of debate on this forum doesn’t seem to allow for anyone to get away with saying stupid or ignorant things for long... someone calls them out on it.

A few people like to argue and drum up trouble for no apparent reason, but I appreciate that most people are genuinely trying to be helpful, whether their advice is good or bad.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 04, 2018, 03:45:50 AM
Don't know what EM is like these days but when I did it a couple of years ago the response rate was higher than on most other sites. Generally a faor amount of those responding were later taken off as they were queried by EM as being profiles that they had concerns about. I know others have said they used to use agencies that get paid for contacting guys. Response rates on sites like Mamba, Fdating, etc seem a lot more legit because they tend at least to be fewer. Some girls I think have a particular agenda when looking for a guy that is not always that sincere where others are more straight up.

In general though I would say finding a girl that seems reasonably sincere is not that difficult. Finding a girl where there is chemistry is far harder and that's the real task to focus on I believe.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 04, 2018, 09:13:20 AM

Wow.  You believe your family.  Your family has asked you for help, because they are desperate to leave their horrible and dangerous situation.   And you are not going to help them out...because they are Ukrainian. 

Я все понимаю
2018   stating the obvious contest is now declared open... :clapping:
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 04, 2018, 09:15:26 AM
People romantically interested in each other can find important things to talk about especially
early on. If you want an empty headed arm trophy who won't spend any of your money then
why would you need to talk to a girl.

You want to skip a step but you can't. In order to find a good girl who is compatible you have
to talk to her.


100%
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on November 04, 2018, 09:52:53 AM
My response rate is not that bad on Mamba.


My response rate was good too. It's not hard to find women to talk to there. It's not hard to get a date quickly. Moby ridicules Mamba, the place he found his soon to be wife on, simply because he likes disagreeing with me. It's also it's the place he recommended his fiancée's friends to sign up on. His words to people on the internet say Mamba sucks. His actions and recommendations to people close to him says it's the place to be.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 04, 2018, 10:10:33 AM
we’re all glad that we could provide you with a safe place
to talk about your negative emotions and scary thoughts

do YOU want to write your trip report when you GET BACK
--or--
would you like ME to write it for you NOW...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 04, 2018, 10:25:07 AM
Sorry, I have not read the 101 lately. I will go back and read it again.  I would love to see one of these RW sites.  This one girl does seem like she’s going by some sort of playbook. I wouldn’t be surprised if she is in one of these FB groups.

Thanks




 This is indeed a basic  rule of thumb.  THese girls might not be rocket scientists, but they are mostly very street smart. See, none of you even  suspects them of being desperate. But they are. Everybody in the situation like that would be desperate. And no, You can  not see these  RW FB groups. THey do not accept men. Thats the whole point of them - to be able to discuss things in private.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 04, 2018, 10:38:14 AM
the fact that you feel you need to rely on someone else's "desperation" as a tactic for your search
tells us, that the person who is truly desperate is YOU

based on your track record
something more than desperation is called for here

but you go ahead and spend effort on finding which social media is right for you
i'm sure once you get that one detail established
this'll all immediately turn around for you
good job




Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 04, 2018, 10:43:05 AM



 This is indeed a basic  rule of thumb.  THese girls might not be rocket scientists, but they are mostly very street smart. See, none of you even  suspects them of being desperate. But they are. Everybody in the situation like that would be desperate. And no, You can  not see these  RW FB groups. THey do not accept men. Thats the whole point of them - to be able to discuss things in private.

Hmmm... yeah sounds about right, lol. I wouldn't of course say it for all FSW but for girls like BB states if they seem to be 'going by some sort of playbook' then be real cautious. Not really necessarily talking outright scammers here, they are normally easy to spot but girls willing to play the longer game to see what they can get. Girls like you say Donna that are street smart in that they try to play guys for what they can get. Some can play the game very well and won't be obvious and seem much like the more sincere girls. I would only love to see the inside track on those FB pages, lol though of course can't. I feel it is bad that these girls have been playing WM for fools for years with them unwittingly walking into these situations. Despite differences of opinion there may be with other members some of your contributions are most helpful to us Donna, so thank you for that :)
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on November 04, 2018, 12:09:52 PM
. . . aren't serious and only looking for sex.

But what if you are seriously looking for sex ??
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on November 04, 2018, 01:24:40 PM
Moby ridicules Mamba, the place he found his soon to be wife on, simply because he likes disagreeing with me.

Silly BillyB - repeating stuff I've NEVER said proves your 'worth' as a 'reliable' observer..

1/ I  found an ancient, unused profile on Mamba of my fiancee on mamba.ru.. she stopped using it, because of the responses she got .." not serious men"

2/ This was nearly SIX years ago - your experience is nearly a DECADE old

3/ I do not know any of SC's acquaintances that would 'recommend' mamba.ru

4/ When where you last in the FSU and could you 'video-chat' / hold a conversation with an  RU speaking lass?  .

Thank you, over and out !






Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: rwd123 on November 04, 2018, 07:28:14 PM
But what if you are seriously looking for sex ??
One word - mamba.  :P
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 06, 2018, 06:08:39 PM
Okay, so things are looking up with my pending trip. I don’t have to worry about the “visit two” thing. The one girl who is practically falling in love with me couldn’t get off work, so she wants to wait in January where she has already planned to take a whole week off.

The other savvy girl now takes the pole position for this trip. She offered to meet me at the airport and I agreed.  She has been a little more available and will video chat and text me every day, but she still acts pretty “busy”. I feel that she really likes me, but isn’t completely sold on me. I casually asked her if she wants to also spend my second day in Ukraine together if we hit it off, and she said “Of course!”

It is unpoken, but clear that I have other plans while I am there and that I will gladly change them if we have a connection.  Based on reading other people’s experiences, I don’t want a situation where she spends the whole week with me out of obligation.  I also don’t want her to be tempted to string me along for days.  She previously told me she will know if she feels a strong enough connection within five hours.  Well, I’m giving her two days (if it is clear there is no chemistry on day one, I will cut her loose)

I am doing a little preparation for my back up “VM” dates if this doesn’t go well.  I have written a handful of ladies and just told them I will be in town and was curious if they would want to meet if I have some free time.  I’m not trying to build much rapport with them, other than permission to call them.  Im hoping to build a big enough list where it won’t be too difficult to secure a couple dates if my VO doesn’t work out.

Emotionally, I need some tentative backup dates for this trip.  There is something about this girl that makes me weak in the knees (I’m not showing her my cards).  She digs my confidence (I save my insecurities for this forum).  If I know I have a plan B, I can maintain a higher level of confidence and I won’t act desperate. I need to be able to easily walk away if she tries to toy with me.

In general, I’m feeling a lot of similarities to online dating in the US. The big difference is I feel like so much effort, time and money is riding on a single date.  At home, I never get nervous about a date... the next girl is just a call or a click away... but I feel a lot more pressure when there is so much involved (logistically) for a single date.  Hopefully I will get used to is after a couple trips.... Even better, maybe I’ll meet the right girl sooner rather than later.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on November 06, 2018, 08:25:42 PM
She previously told me she will know if she feels a strong enough connection within five hours. 


It's good she's honest with you. Most guys don't know how fast they could be dumped when they plan to visit a woman for a week or so. Contrary to popular belief that many women are desperate to get out, women there want to find a man they're comfortable and can fall in love with.

I’m giving her two days (if it is clear there is no chemistry on day one, I will cut her loose)


Good policy. Many guys go over there thinking things will end happily ever after. The girl they visit has a bad attitude and takes them shopping often. They refuse to cut the girl loose thinking love will solve all the problems.

I feel a lot more pressure when there is so much involved (logistically) for a single date.


A lot of time, emotions and money is invested before a first date. Many men feel pressure to make something out of a visit to a woman. Don't bend to pressure. You can't make something out of nothing if there's nothing's there.

maybe I’ll meet the right girl sooner rather than later.


An above average, decent guy should have 100% success in this endeavor. It's easy to beat your competition from what I've seen. You may not have success on the first or second trip but it will happen eventually as long as you avoid marrying the wrong girl.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GQBlues on November 06, 2018, 09:55:18 PM
Good luck B.B.! I hope you have a nice trip and things work out for both you and the gal.

For someone who have options at home like you, I can’t help but depart with the same sage advice given to me at the same stage you’re at right now.

Tear up your ticket and forget the whole FSU adventure. The MOB isn’t cut for guys like you. Wise words from an old member named ‘jb’.

 ;)
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 07, 2018, 12:33:32 AM
Tear up your ticket and forget the whole FSU adventure. The MOB isn’t cut for guys like you. Wise words from an old member named ‘jb’.

 ;)

Well, your advice is a little deflating, but noted nevertheless.  Maybe I will look back later and wish I took your advice... but some mistakes, a man just has to make for himself.  I just had a girl here ask me out yesterday... it did make me pause and think.

I’m not ready to give up before I begin, but I can recognize a losing proposition before long.  Yes, this is an expensive hobby, but it’s still cheaper than flying lessons or buying a horse... (this is a generalization, please don’t fact check prices, people).

So... I would still appreciate date planning. Typically, I plan my dates, but does anyone here defer to the girl if running around Kiev for a day or two?  After all, I have never been there... but I don’t want to end up on a shopping excursion...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Davo2 on November 07, 2018, 01:41:10 AM
Brown beard,

Sign up to dmnotify, it's free to join, view the forum and profiles, but you have to pay a monthly fee like local sites to chat.

When you've done that, click the link below. It's a discussion regarding beards. There's many replies from Russian and Ukrainian women.

You can spend days reading the forum. It's one of the best resources I've found so far. There's 100's of FSU women giving their thoughts on many of the questions we ask here and lots of other topics. It's interesting to hear their perspective, thoughts and concerns in  regards to dating foreign men.

It's worthwhile paying the modest fee also. I've found it as good as fdating to meet genuine women.

http://forumhelp.me/social/view_comments/264985e656dfb929d79e6ec0ec2eeba2_1535359885
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 07, 2018, 07:24:28 AM
ohhhh man

Thanks for the link, amusing to read

these wimmin(?) are "totally" playing you guys...
you guys can't "read through the dialog"?

I am so glad I am "Old Skool"
the kind of person who if he wants to go hunting
takes the old Remington out of the gun safe and drives out to the hills
instead of Playing "Big Game Hunter II" for XBox and THINKING you're a hunter
that ain't hunting Boy!

you're just a VIRTUAL man
instead of being a REAL man

ladies, accept no substitute for the REAL thing (don't worry - they already know!)







Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 07, 2018, 07:37:07 AM


 The girl they visit has a bad attitude and takes them shopping often.


what is a bad attitude? Why shopping is in the same sentence with bad attitude?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 07, 2018, 08:07:28 AM


Quote
The other savvy girl now takes the pole position for this trip. She offered to meet me at the airport and I agreed.  She has been a little more available and will video chat and text me every day, but she still acts pretty “busy”.




Interesting.. one of my friends in Russia does it to me.  We are not romantically involved obviousely. She talks a lot how she misses me not being there, but  whenever I tell her I am coming to visit,  she is busy all of a sudden, can not take a single day off work to hang out with me. The game is called "Dont think you are so important just because you show up  from America". I like this game. I  know the rules and I am good at playing. At the end my trip works out exactly as I wanted it to be - all of my friends show up at places I  picked out of MY convinience  and get my attention based on mutual interest: sometimes its a 1 hour lunch, or a shopping trip or even a trip to St.Peterburg overnight.My advise - even if you do not like head games, learn how to play this one.



Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 07, 2018, 09:07:34 AM




Interesting.. one of my friends in Russia does it to me.  We are not romantically involved obviousely. She talks a lot how she misses me not being there, but  whenever I tell her I am coming to visit,  she is busy all of a sudden, can not take a single day off work to hang out with me. The game is called "Dont think you are so important just because you show up  from America". I like this game. I  know the rules and I am good at playing. At the end my trip works out exactly as I wanted it to be - all of my friends show up at places I  picked out of MY convinience  and get my attention based on mutual interest: sometimes its a 1 hour lunch, or a shopping trip or even a trip to St.Peterburg overnight.My advise - even if you do not like head games, learn how to play this one.

Okay, I’m intrigued... do you care to share a little more on how the game is played in FSU? Normally, when a girl starts to put me off, I will act like I don’t care and say, “That’s too bad. Let me know if you are available some other time and I’ll see if we can work something out”.  Usually, they come around because they sense they may lose me.  This girl is like, “okay, thanks, bye for now”.  Just when I am about to give up, she calls me and makes time for me out of nowhere, then she gets busy again.

I was thinking about just calling her out and saying, “You seem pretty busy lately. I don’t want you to feel pressured to spend time with me when I come. Maybe we can spend time together when I come visit in January.”

The truth is, I already have plan b, c, d, e... lined up and I am not desperate. I want to subtly communicate this.  She is still my #1 choice, but she is falling...  I feel she needs to know that I’m ready to walk away if she continues to be so hot and cold with her interest... but I don’t want to do it in such a way that it CAUSES her to walk away.

How do you manage your friends to get what you want?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on November 07, 2018, 09:56:31 AM
This girl is like, “okay, thanks, bye for now”.  Just when I am about to give up, she calls me
and makes time for me out of nowhere, then she gets busy again.

The truth is, I already have plan b, c, d, e... lined up

The problem is that you are using visit one tactics with a visit many strategy.

A girl will usually be happy to meet a man for tea to see if she likes him.
However, you spent extensive time getting to know this girl so you already
know you like her, she already knows she likes you.

You just don't know if there is any chemistry until you meet face to face.
Getting to know a girl is a visit ONE tactic. If you want to do that you need
to find the best girl and visit ONLY her.

If things don't work out you can go meet others but NOT the second place girl
in your original screening. There was a reason she was the second place girl.
You don't want a second place girl and she certainly doesn't want second prize
either.

If you want to meet many girls you don't get to know them first. You meet
them for tea to see if you have mutual chemistry.

YOU DON'T MEET THEM TWICE UNLESS YOU THINK SHE IS THE ONE

This girl is like, “okay, thanks, bye for now”.  Just when I am about to give up, she calls me
and makes time for me out of nowhere, then she gets busy again.

Now she is offended and frustrated and probably you've spoiled your chances with her.
If she was your first choice you should have went to see her exclusively and if things
didn't work out only then you could go meet others.


The truth is, I already have plan b, c, d, e... lined up and I am not desperate. I want to subtly
communicate this. 

The truth is that you have 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th place girls. Forget about those girls and pursue
the first place girl. If it doesn't work out with the first place girl then go meet new girls and find a
new first place girl.

DON'T RECYCLE GIRLS

Going with girl d or girl e is recycling. You've already made a decision about who is girl number
one.


I want to subtly communicate this. 

DON'T BE SUBTLE AND DON'T BE VAGUE. RUSSIAN WOMEN DON'T DO VAGUE.

Tell her that she is the very best girl, that you want her! That's what she wants and
that's what she needs. Seriously, if you meet and everything clicks and you have
great chemistry and a great connection, do you really want to go see if girl b is
close to as good or better? If you still want to go see girl be then you didn't
really have a great connection with girl a.

How do you manage your friends to get what you want?

You don't manage your friends you manage yourself. If a friend turns out to be flaky
then how good of a friend are they? You manage yourself and don't meet the flake.



Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 07, 2018, 09:57:26 AM
"Dont think you are so important just because you show up  from America". I like this game."

Newsflash: You like this game, because you're the ONLY ONE PLAYING IT!!!!
Damn! I'd sleep with one eye open if I was her spouse, and keep my own toothpaste in a locked drawer!
Wow! when you see what's out there it can get rough...

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GQBlues on November 07, 2018, 10:11:32 AM
Well, your advice is a little deflating, but noted nevertheless.  Maybe I will look back later and wish I took your advice... but some mistakes, a man just has to make for himself.  I just had a girl here ask me out yesterday... it did make me pause and think.

I’m not ready to give up before I begin, but I can recognize a losing proposition before long.  Yes, this is an expensive hobby, but it’s still cheaper than flying lessons or buying a horse... (this is a generalization, please don’t fact check prices, people).

BB-

Women are women. I married a woman from Russia and have no regrets. However, I would not do this over again, nor have I ever recommended it to any of my friends, or to those who asked me about it. Nothing against any women outside our borders, MOB or not.

There is more than 'something' to be said in having a relationship with someone from your own environment. I will speak only of me...even today when I break a conversation with any gal, regardless of age, status, attractiveness, etc..I always find the comfort in having 'commonalities' with much of most things we talk about. They can do almost all I like to do in terms of life outside the home and work. I took all of these for granted before and blamed most of it to life being so easy with these gals. Anytime something becomes 'easy', it loses it's value, its luster, its mystic and all the excitement and enjoyment - the challenge dies along with it. No one here during those times was ever 'good' enough, exciting enough, etc...to keep me in a relationship for more than a month. I have this nasty feeling bedding someone for the third time was a major waste of time because I could be bedding someone else new just as easily.

But relationships are a lot more than that. The very mundane parts and association of any relations are as vital to the integrity of your intimacy as the most basic interactive behaviors with each other. I never spent the time to appreciate the former and solely drowned myself to the latter. It always got boring too fast. Never knowing then that problem wasn't the gals, the problem was always 'me'.

Life in the fast lane, man. You always get to the other side too fast..There's part of me that misses the 'american' in a woman despite of me being so happy with the Russian in my wife.

I would have you also know this is not a one way street. Women, likely even with my wife, regardless of nationality will subconsciously feel the same sentiment. Russian/Ukrainian whatever...there's something to be said in marrying someone from your own..

I do feel incredibly fortunate to have met and married my wife. But....

This is what I took from what 'jb' threw at me. If you have the 'option' - I suggest to choose wisely.

Have a great time in your pending trip. Give yourself, and the gal, the very best of yourself. Be true to yourself and you'd be true to her automatically. You will be out of your comfort and element, so keep a great presence of mind and don't lose yourself. That's the key...

You don't need to understand what I'm telling you now, nor what 'jb' advised me before - someday, regardless what path you take from here on in - you will undoubtedly understand and appreciate it then.

Good luck!

~ an aside: >>it’s still cheaper than flying lessons or buying a horse<<

Funny. I actually 'bought' and had a horse before. Big quarterhorse - 15 hands. Great looking Red Dun. Pastured him in Malibu for a couple of years until I gave him up to an avid horse rancher from Montana as he would've been better off in horse country than be neighbors with the Kardashians et al..
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 07, 2018, 11:12:05 AM
 


Y
Quote
ou just don't know if there is any chemistry until you meet face to face.
Getting to know a girl is a visit ONE tactic. If you want to do that you need
to find the best girl and visit ONLY her.


 True. And make sure your trip happens at the day and time previousely discussed and agreed upon in conversations with the girl.  You start with talking about your plans to visit, say in April and ask her if she is interested and available in April. Then, closer to purchase of plane ticket  - verify one more time what dates in April  would work better for her and if she has any ideas what she would like to do together. At the moment when you are ready to hit the "Buy it now" box - ask her one more time, stating that you are about to complete your ticket purchase and would like to verify one last time since you wouldnt want to waste the money you spent for the ticket. Tell her that you would not be able to change your ticket to a different date. Still, there is a chance she would want to play a game and tell you later that she is busy. And at this case, regardless how you feel about this girl, immediately close all communications with her  and get what you can out of your unused ticket.  Chances are - she will come back stating that she is waiting for you, but then - too bad - your trip has been canceled.

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 07, 2018, 11:29:54 AM
Okay, I’m intrigued... do you care to share a little more on how the game is played in FSU? Normally, when a girl starts to put me off, I will act like I don’t care and say, “That’s too bad. Let me know if you are available some other time and I’ll see if we can work something out”.  Usually, they come around because they sense they may lose me.  This girl is like, “okay, thanks, bye for now”.  Just when I am about to give up, she calls me and makes time for me out of nowhere, then she gets busy again.
when I am about to give up


[/size]"when I am about to give up, she calls back and makes time" -  the girl knows how to keep you interested!! It works, dont you think?  She understands that there is always risk to lose you, but she is willing to take it. I say - make her live with consequences: Next time she does this, tell her that now you are so busy, you can not meet her, your schedule is so full. There is a big chance you may lose her, but its better to do it this early in the process, rather than  being  deeply invested.  I might be mistaken, but it feels like you are already falling for this girl, which means the game is effective.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 07, 2018, 11:54:49 AM
BB-

Women are women. I married a woman from Russia and have no regrets. However, I would not do this over again, nor have I ever recommended it to any of my friends, or to those who asked me about it. Nothing against any women outside our borders, MOB or not.

There is more than 'something' to be said in having a relationship with someone from your own environment. I will speak only of me...even today when I break a conversation with any gal, regardless of age, status, attractiveness, etc..I always find the comfort in having 'commonalities' with much of most things we talk about. They can do almost all I like to do in terms of life outside the home and work. I took all of these for granted before and blamed most of it to life being so easy with these gals. Anytime something becomes 'easy', it loses it's value, its luster, its mystic and all the excitement and enjoyment - the challenge dies along with it. No one here during those times was ever 'good' enough, exciting enough, etc...to keep me in a relationship for more than a month. I have this nasty feeling bedding someone for the third time was a major waste of time because I could be bedding someone else new just as easily.

But relationships are a lot more than that. The very mundane parts and association of any relations are as vital to the integrity of your intimacy as the most basic interactive behaviors with each other. I never spent the time to appreciate the former and solely drowned myself to the latter. It always got boring too fast. Never knowing then that problem wasn't the gals, the problem was always 'me'.

Life in the fast lane, man. You always get to the other side too fast..There's part of me that misses the 'american' in a woman despite of me being so happy with the Russian in my wife.

I would have you also know this is not a one way street. Women, likely even with my wife, regardless of nationality will subconsciously feel the same sentiment. Russian/Ukrainian whatever...there's something to be said in marrying someone from your own..

I do feel incredibly fortunate to have met and married my wife. But....

This is what I took from what 'jb' threw at me. If you have the 'option' - I suggest to choose wisely.

Have a great time in your pending trip. Give yourself, and the gal, the very best of yourself. Be true to yourself and you'd be true to her automatically. You will be out of your comfort and element, so keep a great presence of mind and don't lose yourself. That's the key...

You don't need to understand what I'm telling you now, nor what 'jb' advised me before - someday, regardless what path you take from here on in - you will undoubtedly understand and appreciate it then.

Good luck!

~ an aside: >>it’s still cheaper than flying lessons or buying a horse<<

Funny. I actually 'bought' and had a horse before. Big quarterhorse - 15 hands. Great looking Red Dun. Pastured him in Malibu for a couple of years until I gave him up to an avid horse rancher from Montana as he would've been better off in horse country than be neighbors with the Kardashians et al..

Thanks for sharing more of your wisdom.  This will all take me some time to digest.  I have some scary similarities with your past... that’s why I really try and give thought to your words.  I was definitely caught in the “rut” of looking for excitement and chasing girls.  This year, I got bored with being bored with women.  I want something deeper.  Your reply made me think of a girl I dated last year. She was a professional with a masters degree, smart, 12 years younger than me and eating out of my hand.  After four months, I found myself completely bored with her. She was sweet, loyal and nice.  She never did a thing wrong.  If I could, I would trade the boring life I had with her for a whole pile of excitement.

This is why I am really atttacted to one of these girls I have been talking to. She is smart, kind and humble.  I have been with many women more physically attractive than her, but there is something about her calm inner beauty and lack of excitement that I like.  Since I tend to get bored, the long visa process is to my advantage.  If I’m still feeling the same way after a long engagement, it will be unlike any relationship I have ever had.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 07, 2018, 05:00:03 PM

The truth is that you have 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th place girls. Forget about those girls and pursue
the first place girl. If it doesn't work out with the first place girl then go meet new girls and find a
new first place girl.

DON'T RECYCLE GIRLS

Going with girl d or girl e is recycling. You've already made a decision about who is girl number
one.


I always appreciate your advice (not just this thread).  I think I understand the thinking behind not recycling girls or going back to girl “B”, but I see it differently in some cases.

Let’s say girl A and girl B are a tie.  I base this “scoring” off of incomplete information because I haven’t met them yet.  Let’s say I flip a coin and go with girl A.  When I take her out to eat, she is a hot mess.  She has no table manners, is rude to the waiter, etc.  If I had access to this information previously, girl B would have been the clear winner all along.  After dating girl A, girl B is now my first choice. She would have been my first choice from the beginning if I had more complete information.  Why should I start from scratch if I already found a girl I think would be great for me?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on November 07, 2018, 07:17:27 PM
I just had a girl here ask me out yesterday... it did make me pause and think.


On that situation, don't think, just do. You are not committed to anybody so you're a free man. When I was single, I dated a lot at home and would only visit a woman overseas if she was exceptional. You have an obligation to yourself to bring the best people into your life so don't pass up opportunity.


what is a bad attitude? Why shopping is in the same sentence with bad attitude?

Maybe I should've said "or" instead of "and". Usually girls that lure men to visit them so they can get free stuff on shopping excursions have a pleasant attitude up until the guy stops buying, then the bad attitude appears. Some girls are nice with the men that are visiting them but have bad attitudes with strangers or their family members. I've read too many trip reports with guys putting up with temper tantrums. Everybody should be on their best behavior on a first trip.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on November 07, 2018, 11:33:29 PM
I always appreciate your advice (not just this thread).  I think I understand the thinking behind not
recycling girls or going back to girl “B”, but I see it differently in some cases.

Let’s say girl A and girl B are a tie.

I have always been able to decide that one is better for me than another.
Many guys decide to include girl b because she is really hot, but actually 
know which girl is better if they try to be brutally honest with themselves.

I always appreciate your advice (not just this thread).  I think I understand the thinking behind not
recycling girls or going back to girl “B”, but I see it differently in some cases.

Let’s say girl A and girl B are a tie.  I base this “scoring” off of incomplete information because I
haven’t met them yet.  Let’s say I flip a coin and go with girl A.  When I take her out to eat, she
is a hot mess.  She has no table manners, is rude to the waiter, etc.  If I had access to this information
previously, girl B would have been the clear winner all along.  After dating girl A, girl B is now my first choice.
She would have been my first choice from the beginning if I had more complete information. 

Why should I start from scratch if I already found a girl I think would be great for me?

I really doubt that you would really flip a coin to decide, you would make a decision on who
to see. Your hypothetical situation seems unlikely but I am just giving you my advice many
others have tried your approach and often times the girls get wind of the situation and wreck
the very situation that you are trying achieve. These girls are usually excellent investigators.

My advice is to make a decision, if you really, really believe strongly that you should see girl
b IF girl a doesn't work out then go do it, that's not how I would do it. I'm just giving you and
the newbies reading this thread my opinion. 

If things don't work out with Girl A, you aren't really starting from scratch. You are on the ground
in country and there is no reason not to meet other girls for tea or coffee to see if you have chemistry.
That's exactly how I met my wife Angel Eyes. Once I met her I pursued her exclusively.

I always appreciate your advice (not just this thread).

Thank you for saying that  ;D

Udachi!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GenMish on November 08, 2018, 11:48:41 AM
  I have been with many women more physically attractive than her, but there is something about her calm inner beauty and lack of excitement that I like.  Since I tend to get bored, the long visa process is to my advantage.  If I’m still feeling the same way after a long engagement, it will be unlike any relationship I have ever had.

We had someone abruptly end a K1 Visa process post here recently. He seemed like a nice guy . On his last trip out, things didn't go as well as he expected. The lady he met had already planned to leave after her approved interview and even lost her job because she thought she was going to the USA . He felt like garbage, but continuing would be worse. I agree, but I do believe he had good intentions from the beginning

I mention this because you are coming across as someone that wants to put another notch in your belt. I hope I am wrong.  I also hope you don't take the visa process lightly, and leave yourself an out if you get 'bored' or meet other women. Remember, these women are real people
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 08, 2018, 02:16:44 PM


Let’s say girl A and girl B are a tie.  I base this “scoring” off of incomplete information because I haven’t met them yet.  Let’s say I flip a coin and go with girl A.  When I take her out to eat, she is a hot mess.  She has no table manners, is rude to the waiter, etc.  If I had access to this information previously, girl B would have been the clear winner all along.  After dating girl A, girl B is now my first choice. She would have been my first choice from the beginning if I had more complete information.  Why should I start from scratch if I already found a girl I think would be great for me?


this looks exactly like the way we were buying my car last year. At first we looked online. These used caes dealerships have great pictures. So we look at the pictures and make a list. Then Mr. Pedro  asks me  to go and test-drive some of them.. and when I come back with a short list of cars, he goes himself, lifts  hoods,  looks at this or that  and takes final desision. A lot of times the best deal is already bought by someone else and I have to go  with the second best. By that time I am usually so tired of looking at cars and prefer to get something rather than start over again.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on November 08, 2018, 02:26:19 PM
How to Visit Many without lying?

I must surely be clear, now

Just don't DO it ! ;)

There is LOADS of due diligence you can both do using video chat ... 


@Donna_Pedro

"tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh’a’?"



Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 08, 2018, 02:33:28 PM
How to Visit Many without lying?


@Donna_Pedro

"tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh’a’?"

HIja'. loQ vIjatlhlaH
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on November 08, 2018, 02:45:59 PM
Dun wIqelDI', maHeDnIS
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 08, 2018, 07:34:52 PM
We had someone abruptly end a K1 Visa process post here recently. He seemed like a nice guy . On his last trip out, things didn't go as well as he expected. The lady he met had already planned to leave after her approved interview and even lost her job because she thought she was going to the USA . He felt like garbage, but continuing would be worse. I agree, but I do believe he had good intentions from the beginning

I mention this because you are coming across as someone that wants to put another notch in your belt. I hope I am wrong.  I also hope you don't take the visa process lightly, and leave yourself an out if you get 'bored' or meet other women. Remember, these women are real people

I appreciate your concern, but I can assure you I don’t want to put another notch in my belt.  Do you know how hard it is to explain why I have gone through two divorces? I don’t want to have to explain three divorces in a few years!

I am about 90% sure I’m going to cut communication with this younger, innocent girl at this point.  I don’t want to hurt her and I don’t want to break her heart.  I would rather end it now before she makes plans and screws up her life.  I understand this is very real and the stakes are high.  I am trying to be honest with myself and think that deep inside, she is my (very close) second choice. Keeping her around is bad for everyone.

Now as far as the other girl goes... I’m afraid she will break MY heart. She is kind, sweet, smart, and extremely gorgeous.  She may be toying with me, but I am definitely not toying with her.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Bee Farmer on November 08, 2018, 07:50:58 PM
There is a very simple way to visit many without lying.

Take many trips, visiting one girl each trip.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on November 08, 2018, 08:17:51 PM
There is a very simple way to visit many without lying.

Take many trips, visiting one girl each trip.

Smart move. 
Fly into your target city and visit one. 
Fly out to nearest city, and then fly back into your target city. 
Repeat this each time.
If you find that is too costly, then just go to the airport, wait around a while, and then back into town.
After a while you might realize you could just think about going to airport while actually having a coffee.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 08, 2018, 09:21:33 PM

After a while you might realize you could just think about going to airport while actually having a coffee.

That’s Brilliant!
 Write Many, Visit One, Have Coffee, Visit One, Have Coffee, Visit one....

WMVOHCVOHCVO.....

What if I get tired of drinking coffee? Can I just book back to back dates and think about coffee in the taxi?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: rwd123 on November 08, 2018, 09:47:58 PM
It's not brilliant as it implicitly goes against the advice being sought - to be honest ("without lying").
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on November 09, 2018, 02:28:30 PM
It's not brilliant as it implicitly goes against the advice being sought - to be honest ("without lying").

It is brilliant in that it shows in stark reality the stupidity of thinking that WOVO is morally superior.

My example shows exactly that one can be truthful that they are only there to visit the one gal on that trip.
It's just that there will be several trips which can be compressed as much is time intervals as the guy wants.
It can eventually lead to the situation available to any local guy.
i.e. He doesn't have to leave town and come back in just to be able to date a second, third, etc., gal.

Think about the stupidity wherein a local gal that you may date will ask you if she is the only gal you plan to date within X time period.  Really beyond belief right ?
Now, would it be OK for the gal to ask this same question if she lived in an adjoining subdivision?
Just how far away must the second gal be before she can ask the question?  Next city, county, next state, country, continent ??
Where is the cutoff?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on November 09, 2018, 09:31:50 PM
It is brilliant in that it shows in stark reality the stupidity of thinking that WOVO is morally superior.

My example shows exactly that one can be truthful that they are only there to visit the one gal on that trip.
It's just that there will be several trips which can be compressed as much is time intervals as the guy wants.
It can eventually lead to the situation available to any local guy.
i.e. He doesn't have to leave town and come back in just to be able to date a second, third, etc., gal.

Think about the stupidity wherein a local gal that you may date will ask you if she is the only gal you plan to date within X time period.  Really beyond belief right ?
Now, would it be OK for the gal to ask this same question if she lived in an adjoining subdivision?
Just how far away must the second gal be before she can ask the question?  Next city, county, next state, country, continent ??
Where is the cutoff?

If you go to meet one gal and it doesn't work out, you just say that, and go meet others.
I've done it myself. Every girl would ask me, Beeel why are you visiting Raaasha? I would
say, I came to meet a girl but it didn't work out. NONE of them were bothered by this.

It's spending a whole bunch of time with several girls and then trying to visit each of them
that I have a problem with. A guy should be able to filter the girls out if he spends a ton of
time communicating with them. It's using a visit one tactic with a visit many strategy.

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: SteveInBoston on November 10, 2018, 02:13:11 AM
Think about the stupidity wherein a local gal that you may date will ask you if she is the only gal you plan to date within X time period.  Really beyond belief right ?
Now, would it be OK for the gal to ask this same question if she lived in an adjoining subdivision?
Just how far away must the second gal be before she can ask the question?  Next city, county, next state, country, continent ??
Where is the cutoff?

This makes sense when approaching the search/meeting per GQ's advice - minimal communication before visiting.  But if you invest a lot of time chatting and calling and video..um, videoing?, and the lady also invests her time and possibly additional effort (like improving her English for you), then it gets complicated.   With the likelihood of her taking time off from work or travelling from her city to meet you, she will have more expectations of you than someone she meets at a club after work or have coffee with during her lunch break.

That's the downside of a keyboard Romeo.  If you're successful, then you start developing emotional attachment, all before meeting in person.  Things can go great (if you both click), horrible, or somewhere in-between.   You hope that if the chemistry is not there, then you can amicably move on to see/date/online message someone else.  But if it goes bad or awkward, you still need to move on to find a woman who is a match.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on November 10, 2018, 02:44:10 AM
It is brilliant in that it shows in stark reality the stupidity of thinking that WOVO is morally superior.

It is / was superior for many - and it is certainly more honest / moral ?

My example shows exactly that one can be truthful that they are only there to visit the one gal on that trip.


Think about the stupidity wherein a local gal that you may date will ask you if she is the only gal you plan to date within X time period.  Really beyond belief right ?

The question asked is "are you visiting any other woman"..I  got asked it when thinking I was 'smart' in 2003 and did a W2V2

Never again ;) .. 

Trying to  decide which lady I wanted most - balancing dates, over-running ...not for me !

It was supposed to be enjoyable

One lady snogged my  face off in the back of a taxi on the way back from the Blue lake ( South of Kyiv)  and I still managed to fit in the second lady at a UK embassy do

WAY to much stress.


Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 10, 2018, 11:23:11 AM
A guy should be able to filter the girls out if he spends a ton of time communicating with them. It's using a visit one tactic with a visit many strategy.

Depending on how successful you are at calling them up one at a time after each other. Some may not reply/refuse/be busy/out of town which would leave gaps.

With ML's strategy they're all racked up and ready to go  :) So perhaps most efficient use of time.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on November 10, 2018, 05:08:46 PM
Depending on how successful you are at calling them up one at a time after each other. Some may not reply/refuse/be busy/out of town which would leave gaps.

With ML's strategy they're all racked up and ready to go  :) So perhaps most efficient use of time.

First, ML has top level interpersonal skills and confidence.

Second, How old is the oldest woman that you would be willing to marry?
Answer that and I will tell you why it's not as likely to work for you.

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 10, 2018, 05:31:08 PM
First, ML has top level interpersonal skills and confidence.

Second, How old is the oldest woman that you would be willing to marry?
Answer that and I will tell you why it's not as likely to work for you.

My guess would be mid thirties, say about 35.

That's all a bit subjective though, it depends upon the woman, but in terms of ones that can easily have kids that's where it can start to tail off a bit.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on November 11, 2018, 02:28:01 AM
Remember Trenchie seeks a woman who's 35 WITHOUT kids - such a presumably professional - woman going to be interested in a Brit guy earning less tan the average salary ?

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 11, 2018, 03:51:13 PM
You've gotta stop taking over other peoples threads.

So here what is radically different. Once a woman in the FSU gets over a certain age
the men stop seriously considering her for marriage and a family. Men would still be
happy to sit on her couch and get waited on hand and foot and to F#ck her frequently
without a condom, but eventually they will move to another woman's couch and the
cycle will repeat itself. 

100% of the women that ML sought out have reached that age. 10% of the women
you are considering have reached that age.

Next, ML has top level grade A interpersonal skills and you don't. He's far more likely
to talk women into doing something they aren't 100% interested in while you will find
it more difficult.

Lastly, ML doesn't spend many months exchanging conversations with these women.
I don't know how many he exchanges but it will be 10% or less than what you intend
to do.

So you aren't actually following ML's tactics, you are doing a hybrid of the wrong
mix but calling your hybrid ML's system in order to give it credibility. You have spent
most of your time here, ignoring most of the advice you get, only highlighting that
which you can twist to match your own theories.
Let’s be clear.  I’m not trying to twist anything.  I am trying to do what works best for me.  I used to set up a lot of dates here in the US with very little communication before the date.  I have no problem lining them up. The problem is I went on a ton of dates where I wanted to leave within the first ten minutes.  I started extending the amount of conversation as a part of due diligence so I wouldn’t waste as much time.  It became much more common that I would end up sleeping with a girl on the first date than my previous nightmare scenario.

I would always be talking to at least a dozen girls at once.  I would often have dates lined up for Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.  If my Thursday date worked out, I would just cancel the other two dates.  In my mind, a big difference is that none of the girls ever asked what I was doing on the other nights of me week.  It has always felt like an unspoken “It’s none of your business”.

When I tell a girl I am planning to visit Ukraine, they tend to ask a ton of questions, even early on.  They want to know how long I am going, what I am doing there, who will I be seeing, etc.

If you go back to my initial question, I was trying to find a tactful way of navigating through these questions without lying or sounding evasive (saying “none of your business” doesn’t work for me)

GQ left a wonderful response on this thread (one of the first responses)where he outlines an excellent system he used.  I don’t have tome to set that all up before this trip, but I am strongly considering doing something similar in the future (depending on how trip one goes)

I believe ML did an excellent job showing the absurdity of claiming the moral superiority approach over another... especially if you are saying up front that you will be talking to other women and you encourage them to talk to other men.

So, does anyone think it’s a bad idea to talk to many girls, letting them know you are still talking to other girls, but taking a little more time to get to know them?  I think it can help weed out a lot of girls before I meet them.  Otherwise, just going by criteria like, she’s young, beautiful, educated, speaks English, live in Kiev and willing to meet me... well, that’s not much to go on... and there’s hundreds and hundreds of those online.

I admit that I can get too emotionally involved in the process, but I am also trying to achieve a specific life objective.  I feel approaches mentioned by ML and GQ are more practical. I can set emotions aside if and when I have to.  It’s hard for me to get a good feel for a girl after just a few emails is a problem for me. A week or two of texting with a couple video chats will help me weed out a lot of girls.

For those people thinking I’m just trying to pick the advice I want to hear, nothing could be further from the truth. I keep asking my dumb questions because I’m trying to learn from mistakes of others.  I have already changed many things in how I approach things.

I know some people like to criticize and insult me personally... that’s easy enough to ignore... but it’s worth it considering the wisdom I gain from so many others.

Thanks everyone
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on November 11, 2018, 05:21:50 PM
Let’s be clear.  I’m not trying to twist anything.

Let's be clear, I was posting in response to Trenchcoat, who seems to hijack other
peoples threads. Nothing in my post was in reference to you.
Udachi!

Bill 

Trenchcoat has a 97+ page thread of his own here which was made for him as he
kept interrupting other threads with his inanity.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22008.0;topicseen


Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 11, 2018, 06:37:10 PM
Let's be clear, I was posting in response to Trenchcoat, who seems to hijack other
peoples threads. Nothing in my post was in reference to you.
Udachi!

Bill 

Trenchcoat has a 97+ page thread of his own here which was made for him as he
kept interrupting other threads with his inanity.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22008.0;topicseen
Thanks for clarifying... now your post makes much more sense!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 11, 2018, 10:04:54 PM


When I tell a girl I am planning to visit Ukraine, they tend to ask a ton of questions, even early on.  They want to know how long I am going, what I am doing there, who will I be seeing, etc.

If you go back to my initial question, I was trying to find a tactful way of navigating through these questions without lying or sounding evasive (saying “none of your business” doesn’t work for me)



So, does anyone think it’s a bad idea to talk to many girls, letting them know you are still talking to other girls, but taking a little more time to get to know them?  I think it can help weed out a lot of girls before I meet them.  Otherwise, just going by criteria like, she’s young, beautiful, educated, speaks English, live in Kiev and willing to meet me... well, that’s not much to go on... and there’s hundreds and hundreds of those online.



 I am thinking, if I were to date a man locally and he would tell me casually he is seeing other girls and encourage me to do the same - He would probably never see me again. Yes, even early in a process.  I deserve a separate personal visit - that is how I think about myself and - surprise! I found me a man, who felt the same way. Some women never ask this question upfront, because they  do not want to hear the answer.  Because then they either have to refuse to participate or  will have to step on their pride and pretend it was ok. Its never OK, really.. regardless what a woman says.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 12, 2018, 02:55:28 AM

 I am thinking, if I were to date a man locally and he would tell me casually he is seeing other girls and encourage me to do the same - He would probably never see me again. Yes, even early in a process.  I deserve a separate personal visit - that is how I think about myself and - surprise! I found me a man, who felt the same way. Some women never ask this question upfront, because they  do not want to hear the answer.  Because then they either have to refuse to participate or  will have to step on their pride and pretend it was ok. Its never OK, really.. regardless what a woman says.
Donna, I hear what you are saying. I really do.

The thing is... if I connect with a girl, it always happens on the first date. Not the second date or the third date...  if I am on a date and I connect with her and she asks that question... I have (many times) in the past, told a girl, “I had other dates planned, but I really want to just focus on you right now and see where things go”

I will cancel the other dates and the girl feels really special that she “beat out” the other girls, but she also knows that I’m not desperate and I have other options besides her.

I can’t speak for others, but at no point have I suggested actively dating more than one person.  Everything I am talking about is the activity BEFORE the first date.  If I’m looking for someone I click with, when I find a girl who clicks, I don’t keep looking anymore.  I found her. The search is over.

Once I had an afternoon date with a girl.  We had such an animal attraction that we found ourselves almost having sex in a public bathroom stall within a few hours of meeting.  I was sure I found “the one”.  She had to cut our date short, becuse she confessed she had planned back to back dates with another guy.  She said she wanted to pursue things with me, but she didn’t want to be rude and cancel on the other guy.

The fact that she was in high demand turned me on.  She had a golden opportunity to make me feel like a king by cancelling with the other guy, but she didn’t.  She called me later that night becuase her second date sucked and she wanted to see me exclusively, but it was too late. She lost her chance with me.  The sucky thing is, we really have a soul connection.  We still talk all the time and she has tried to date me for the past two years, but I refuse to, because of what happened.

So, yes... I understand what you are saying, but I still think that demanding exclusivity before you even meet is excessive.  I think it’s a bit much to expect a guy to give up a week or more of his time and hundreds or thousands of dollars for a first date gamble... especially when she isn’t promising exclusivity.  Nothing is stopping her from dating other guys.  How do I know five other guys aren’t flying in this month to meet her?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 12, 2018, 08:16:24 AM
"The problem is I went on a ton of dates where I wanted to leave within the first ten minutes."

guess what, the girls wanted to leave in the first 30 sec, and then they put on their "I don't care any more" attitude
and it takes you 9 minutes and 30 seconds for you to pick up on this....



“I will cancel the other dates and the girl feels really special that she “beat out” the other girls, but she also knows that I’m not desperate and I have other options besides her.”

what kinda dopey manipulation is that, High Schoolers don’t even do this kinda crap






“Once I had an afternoon date with a girl.  We had such an animal attraction that we found ourselves almost having sex in a public bathroom stall within a few hours of meeting.  I was sure I found “the one”. “



seriously dewd?
are you really this messed up or is this your repressed fantasy bubbling out




“The fact that she was in high demand turned me on.  She had a golden opportunity to make me feel like a king by cancelling with the other guy, but she didn’t.  She called me later that night becuase her second date sucked and she wanted to see me exclusively, but it was too late. She lost her chance with me.  The sucky thing is, we really have a soul connection.  We still talk all the time and she has tried to date me for the past two years, but I refuse to, because of what happened.”


see now I KNOW that this is the Beard and not a human
an Actual human would not be this dumb

you get sexually aroused by having fantasies where you “beat out” other men
you use that phrase a lot, this is totally a Beard fantasy and not a human one




Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 12, 2018, 09:06:26 AM

So, yes... I understand what you are saying, but I still think that demanding exclusivity before you even meet is excessive.  I think it’s a bit much to expect a guy to give up a week or more of his time and hundreds or thousands of dollars for a first date gamble... especially when she isn’t promising exclusivity.  Nothing is stopping her from dating other guys.  How do I know five other guys aren’t flying in this month to meet her?


I understand your point. It all comes to money, wich is normal. However WOVO mean investing a lot of time upfront, before you met. I do not know how, but me and Mr. Pedro  both felt rather strong connection just by talking on the phone. And we did not have  video chats like Slype, Whatsup etc. I talked to other guys on the phone as well, but after 1-2 calls was no longer interested in them, but I could spend hours on the phone with Mr. Pedro and not be bored. He talked a lot about his life, like, for example.."He - I have just got a letter from an insurance company" Me - what do they want?" He - they say, my last labs were not covered and I will have to pay XXX dollars out of pocket, a...holes!" Me - "how dare they?" And then I got a wealth of knowledge about how american medical insurance system worked. And a glimpse into credit points too.. It was so interesting to learn about things from him. Then he would say - I need to go grocery shopping.. I - whats in your refridgirator?... And here is another piece of  knowledge for me.. He does not like this, but loves that and that. OK, let me make a mental note here. Everything he said was simple life staff, but it was  wealth of knowledge for me. I actually put a part of my life on hold just to talk to Mr. Pedro, because I was interested. And this  indicated to him that he was not going to waste money if he came to visit me and  that  I did not have 5 more guys lined up to visit me too. My advise - invest time upfront. Its free for you and will tell you exactly who is truly interested.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 13, 2018, 03:26:48 PM

I understand your point. It all comes to money, wich is normal. However WOVO mean investing a lot of time upfront, before you met. I do not know how, but me and Mr. Pedro  both felt rather strong connection just by talking on the phone. And we did not have  video chats like Slype, Whatsup etc. I talked to other guys on the phone as well, but after 1-2 calls was no longer interested in them, but I could spend hours on the phone with Mr. Pedro and not be bored. He talked a lot about his life, like, for example.."He - I have just got a letter from an insurance company" Me - what do they want?" He - they say, my last labs were not covered and I will have to pay XXX dollars out of pocket, a...holes!" Me - "how dare they?" And then I got a wealth of knowledge about how american medical insurance system worked. And a glimpse into credit points too.. It was so interesting to learn about things from him. Then he would say - I need to go grocery shopping.. I - whats in your refridgirator?... And here is another piece of  knowledge for me.. He does not like this, but loves that and that. OK, let me make a mental note here. Everything he said was simple life staff, but it was  wealth of knowledge for me. I actually put a part of my life on hold just to talk to Mr. Pedro, because I was interested. And this  indicated to him that he was not going to waste money if he came to visit me and  that  I did not have 5 more guys lined up to visit me too. My advise - invest time upfront. Its free for you and will tell you exactly who is truly interested.

The more I talk to FSU women, I’m learning that your philosophy is not uncommon.

I have noticed a lot of prying questions about why I am visiting Ukraine, how long I will be staying, who I am seeing.  One girl was out of town when I will be there in November, so I told her that maybe we could meet when I return in January.  I am pretty much an open book, so I usually don’t mind questions, but she started demanding to know why I am visiting Ukraine so often.  What is she suspicious of?  Does she just think I have a ton of girls lined up? Is she thinking I’m a sex tourist?

I found some potential business dealings in Kiev... I’m thinking on setting up some meetings just so suspicious girls will get off my back. There is actually some business potential there, so it won’t be a lie at all...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: JayH on November 13, 2018, 04:08:25 PM
OK -here we go ! I have resisted commenting as most of what I have to say I have repeated many times here( unlike some who take every opportunity to repeat a lot of nonsense !)

Donna-Pedro has  done her best to explain and I totally agree with most of what she has written .

It is 100% consistent with my own knowledge -gained personally and in many( many many) conversations on this topic ( & many others) that relates to this type of scenario.

Telling anyone they are 2nd choice( or the 10th ) or a backup is offensively dumb thing to do  --just plain stupid .
Guys come here paranoid about being scammed-- non genuine girls etc etc--yet then think it is ok to tell a girl she is on a list of maybe's !

How would guys react to being told -- "I can see you between 10 am & 11 am as I have other guys to see in the afternoon? Where would you place that girl on YOUR list?btw -- for me- i would not care as regardless of all else I would back myself in if I was really interested in that girl-- why? Because I understand the reality is that NOTHING is real until you meet .

But-- doing that to a girl -an FSU girl in particular -- all you have achieved is to raise the bar higher.--for yourself.
If you have to justify your actions to a girl- you have probably just lost !

Understand that the very large majority of guys who show up in the FSU ( & that is only somewhere less that 5% of those who take to the keyboard)  are not in what I call the "normal" guy category   eg Read the total idiot Trenchcoat here on forum :wallbash:. Girls may have met  a guy/s previously-- or read on FSUW forums some of the horror stories and some of the actions of guys visiting-- some funny,some criminal,some dangerous, some just plain social misfits .

Last for now--one of my favourite stories is a funny one -- a guy shows up in a smaller city with a bag of engagement rings -- and using a few agencies meets a number of girls -- who in each case he asks her to marry him and presents who with an engagement ring!   He was quite cut when agency told him that handing out 10 rings was excessive- he told them he still had another 4 to hand out! LoL



Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 13, 2018, 04:31:05 PM
" and using a few agencies meets a number of girls -- who in each case he asks her to marry him and presents who with an engagement ring!"

that guy is either a FREAKING genius or he's Irish. good on him!!!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 13, 2018, 05:13:41 PM
The more I talk to FSU women, I’m learning that your philosophy is not uncommon.

I have noticed a lot of prying questions about why I am visiting Ukraine, how long I will be staying, who I am seeing.  One girl was out of town when I will be there in November, so I told her that maybe we could meet when I return in January.  I am pretty much an open book, so I usually don’t mind questions, but she started demanding to know why I am visiting Ukraine so often.  What is she suspicious of?  Does she just think I have a ton of girls lined up? Is she thinking I’m a sex tourist?

I found some potential business dealings in Kiev... I’m thinking on setting up some meetings just so suspicious girls will get off my back. There is actually some business potential there, so it won’t be a lie at all...

From what Krimster says the competition is so great to find a decent man (who can provide, etc) that I'm guessing girls go rushing to be no.1 and are wary that the competition may be sniffing around also. I think they wish to stake their claim on each man they hold some interest in. Chances are not all girls will just be talking to you, a few may do most will probably be talking to other guys. Stands to reason to hedge their bets as for all they know your promises to visit may come to nothing. Meanwhile time is ticking for them and they've probably missed out to other girls in the past so know how quick off the ball they have to be on the men they are interested in.

That said, if they meet with prospective guy and it becomes apparent he is no the guy for them then they won't be so bothered. I think almost every girl with interest in a guy is eager for him to visit after all she is not paying so has no real cost for her.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 13, 2018, 05:20:47 PM
OK -here we go ! I have resisted commenting as most of what I have to say I have repeated many times here( unlike some who take every opportunity to repeat a lot of nonsense !)

Donna-Pedro has  done her best to explain and I totally agree with most of what she has written .

It is 100% consistent with my own knowledge -gained personally and in many( many many) conversations on this topic ( & many others) that relates to this type of scenario.

Telling anyone they are 2nd choice( or the 10th ) or a backup is offensively dumb thing to do  --just plain stupid .
Guys come here paranoid about being scammed-- non genuine girls etc etc--yet then think it is ok to tell a girl she is on a list of maybe's !

How would guys react to being told -- "I can see you between 10 am & 11 am as I have other guys to see in the afternoon? Where would you place that girl on YOUR list?btw -- for me- i would not care as regardless of all else I would back myself in if I was really interested in that girl-- why? Because I understand the reality is that NOTHING is real until you meet .

But-- doing that to a girl -an FSU girl in particular -- all you have achieved is to raise the bar higher.--for yourself.
If you have to justify your actions to a girl- you have probably just lost !

Understand that the very large majority of guys who show up in the FSU ( & that is only somewhere less that 5% of those who take to the keyboard)  are not in what I call the "normal" guy category   eg Read the total idiot Trenchcoat here on forum :wallbash:. Girls may have met  a guy/s previously-- or read on FSUW forums some of the horror stories and some of the actions of guys visiting-- some funny,some criminal,some dangerous, some just plain social misfits .

Last for now--one of my favourite stories is a funny one -- a guy shows up in a smaller city with a bag of engagement rings -- and using a few agencies meets a number of girls -- who in each case he asks her to marry him and presents who with an engagement ring!   He was quite cut when agency told him that handing out 10 rings was excessive- he told them he still had another 4 to hand out! LoL

I’m not sure if this was directly talking to me, but I agree and would never in a million years tell a girl that she was my second choice, nor would I ever volunteer that I have any other dates in the same day, week, or month as that girl.  I don’t do this at home either.  As previously stated, I have planned multiple dates in a week and I just cancel the other dates if the first one works out.  This has never been a problem because no girl has ever asked about if I have other dates planned. 

If I ask a girl to go out with me on Saturday, I have never had her ask, “Do you have another date on Friday or something!”... I have had her suggest Friday, and if I already have another date scheduled, I just say “I already have plans”.  This has never been a problem and I have never had a girl pry any further.

Maybe the thread should be called “How do you tactfully navigate a WMVM strategy without hurting anyone’s feelings”

The problem I am currently having is that I am discovering a lot of things about my “visit one” girl that I’m not sure I really like.  I don’t have time before my trip to build this great rapport (like Donna Pedro did) with someone new. 

It’s too late to cancel my trip and I don’t want to fly across the world just to visit one new girl I have been chatting with for less than two weeks.

So yes, I want to make my trip worth it.  I want to plan multiple dates,  there is no rank.  I don’t have a number one, two, three... there are just girls I am interested in who are available when I am there.  At home, I am continually dating girls.  I date them based on availability, not rank. They are dating around too and nobody has a problem with it.  When you find someone you click with, you drop all the others.  Why does it have to be so complicated?

I have heard it asked rhetorically, “Do these FSU women stop all dating activity when they agree to go out with a foreign man in a month?”

I really want to know the answer.  I don’t really want to ask any girls directly.  It sounds invasive, prying, controlling and rude.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 13, 2018, 05:36:19 PM
Depends of they can get a date or a local deemed worthy enough. By even mid twenties a girl can apparently be left with all the dregs to chose from to date out there. Alcoholics, drug addicts, dim wits, the low paid, unemployed, homeless,  criminals, domestic abusers, etc, etc. Ukraine is a poor country with a few wealthier people.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 13, 2018, 06:00:16 PM
Depends of they can get a date or a local deemed worthy enough. By even mid twenties a girl can apparently be left with all the dregs to chose from to date out there. Alcoholics, drug addicts, dim wits, the low paid, unemployed, homeless,  criminals, domestic abusers, etc, etc. Ukraine is a poor country with a few wealthier people.
So, what you are telling me is that if they aren’t dating around, it’s not cause they are “morally superior” or something.  They aren’t dating because the simply can’t.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: LAman on November 13, 2018, 06:06:00 PM
I’m not sure if this was directly talking to me, but I agree and would never in a million years tell a girl that she was my second choice, nor would I ever volunteer that I have any other dates in the same day, week, or month as that girl.  I don’t do this at home either.  As previously stated, I have planned multiple dates in a week and I just cancel the other dates if the first one works out.  This has never been a problem because no girl has ever asked about if I have other dates planned. 

If I ask a girl to go out with me on Saturday, I have never had her ask, “Do you have another date on Friday or something!”... I have had her suggest Friday, and if I already have another date scheduled, I just say “I already have plans”.  This has never been a problem and I have never had a girl pry any further.

Maybe the thread should be called “How do you tactfully navigate a WMVM strategy without hurting anyone’s feelings”

The problem I am currently having is that I am discovering a lot of things about my “visit one” girl that I’m not sure I really like.  I don’t have time before my trip to build this great rapport (like Donna Pedro did) with someone new. 

It’s too late to cancel my trip and I don’t want to fly across the world just to visit one new girl I have been chatting with for less than two weeks.

So yes, I want to make my trip worth it.  I want to plan multiple dates,  there is no rank.  I don’t have a number one, two, three... there are just girls I am interested in who are available when I am there.  At home, I am continually dating girls.  I date them based on availability, not rank. They are dating around too and nobody has a problem with it.  When you find someone you click with, you drop all the others.  Why does it have to be so complicated?

I have heard it asked rhetorically, “Do these FSU women stop all dating activity when they agree to go out with a foreign man in a month?”

I really want to know the answer.  I don’t really want to ask any girls directly.  It sounds invasive, prying, controlling and rude.


It's been long time since a girl asked if I was only visiting her on a trip.

Not sure if it is the girl's the OP's picking or the conversations he's having with them that brings on the questions of why he is visiting her country.


If you have friends in the area or have a valid reason for visiting other than to visit a girl that could ease some of pressures of questions. I have good friends in Odessa, Moscow and Chisnau, Some of girls have met some of my friends....so no lying if I say I am visiting friends and want to meet a girl.


My passion for history and anything historical was a good reason for visiting. Women were amazed of my knowledge of certain subjects. And my many travels to see historical sites( Egypt was a big one), focused attention on something other than visiting a 'girl'.


So, OP, what are you telling these girls that ask why you are visiting????? They already know that visiting on 'business' means....  wink, wink
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: LAman on November 13, 2018, 06:09:03 PM
Depends of they can get a date or a local deemed worthy enough. By even mid twenties a girl can apparently be left with all the dregs to chose from to date out there. Alcoholics, drug addicts, dim wits, the low paid, unemployed, homeless,  criminals, domestic abusers, etc, etc. Ukraine is a poor country with a few wealthier people.

Please disregard this post!!

Girl's can get a date anytime they want. Enough men there, girls just need some extra money pocket money from any visitors!!!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 13, 2018, 06:15:49 PM
So, what you are telling me is that if they aren’t dating around, it’s not cause they are “morally superior” or something.  They aren’t dating because the simply can’t.

Essentially yes, I asked a girl this and she basically told me about the poor state of local men. I don't think she was lying either, a poor guy in Ukraine really has little to offer a girl that would make him a going concern in her eyes capable of raising children which can cost a lot and mean the man is at work out there all hours to support the child. Of course odds are the girl is not without the odd issue/flaws to have been passed over by the decent local guys but they'll still be way superior to western girls on sites like Match, they'll have way less issues.

Some girls as LAman says may need the extra pocket money, some will want a more long term relationship with a reasonably well off western guy. They want to have children and a comfortable life all of the time, not just when a western man visits. Some women laugh at the short termism of girls that go just for the few purchases a WM can afford here & there before they get too old then no one is interested in them apart from the odd old goatsonce in a blue moon like Mobers, eh ;D
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 13, 2018, 06:29:41 PM

It's been long time since a girl asked if I was only visiting her on a trip.

Not sure if it is the girl's the OP's picking or the conversations he's having with them that brings on the questions of why he is visiting her country.


If you have friends in the area or have a valid reason for visiting other than to visit a girl that could ease some of pressures of questions. I have good friends in Odessa, Moscow and Chisnau, Some of girls have met some of my friends....so no lying if I say I am visiting friends and want to meet a girl.


My passion for history and anything historical was a good reason for visiting. Women were amazed of my knowledge of certain subjects. And my many travels to see historical sites( Egypt was a big one), focused attention on something other than visiting a 'girl'.


So, OP, what are you telling these girls that ask why you are visiting????? They already know that visiting on 'business' means....  wink, wink

A few ask right away. I have a number of reasons... I think “looking for love” is a bad one... that invites suspicion and a million other questions.  I have told them about my friend who owns several apartments in Kiev and is letting me stay in one.  I talk about my fascination with Ukraine... as a kid, my family used to make Ukrainian Easter eggs. It a very elaborate artistic process that can take several weeks to make one egg.  I talk about my love for travel.. Last month I went to Mexico, Nov/Dec I’m going to Ukraine, in January-Mar I’m going to the Netherlands, Germany and France... I think I may have gone overboard on the travel thing once... it’s a good excuse, but it makes Ukraine seem like just a box to check on my bucket list.

A bigger challenge is to explain “why Ukrainian women?”  My answer is I find them beautiful and they have traditional values I find lacking in many American women.  I know this is a broad generalization, but that’s the gist of it.  I know all Ukrainian women don’t meet this description and I haven’t given up on American women either (I have a date later this week in Chicago).
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on November 13, 2018, 07:24:07 PM
A few ask right away. I have a number of reasons... I think “looking for love” is a bad one... that invites suspicion and a million other questions.


I tell them "I'm came here to look for love and haven't found it yet." Never a problem with that response.

A bigger challenge is to explain “why Ukrainian women?”  My answer is I find them beautiful and they have traditional values I find lacking in many American women.

Just tell them you think Slavic women are the most beautiful in the world. There's a lot of women in the FSU with poor values just as there are American women. I'd leave the other stuff out of the conversation.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: JayH on November 13, 2018, 07:41:25 PM
A few ask right away. I have a number of reasons... I think “looking for love” is a bad one... that invites suspicion and a million other questions.  I have told them about my friend who owns several apartments in Kiev and is letting me stay in one.  I talk about my fascination with Ukraine... as a kid, my family used to make Ukrainian Easter eggs. It a very elaborate artistic process that can take several weeks to make one egg.  I talk about my love for travel.. Last month I went to Mexico, Nov/Dec I’m going to Ukraine, in January-Mar I’m going to the Netherlands, Germany and France... I think I may have gone overboard on the travel thing once... it’s a good excuse, but it makes Ukraine seem like just a box to check on my bucket list.

A bigger challenge is to explain “why Ukrainian women?”  My answer is I find them beautiful and they have traditional values I find lacking in many American women.  I know this is a broad generalization, but that’s the gist of it.  I know all Ukrainian women don’t meet this description and I haven’t given up on American women either (I have a date later this week in Chicago).

My comments earlier were generalised so apply what concerns you!
LAman again makes a good post -- and having friends is good!  I also have friends across Ukraine- business interests-and more -all developed after my more recent( years ago now)

 Taking a REAL interest in Ukraine and Ukrainians will take you a long way  too --especially history,architecture and in some case politics ( leave your Trump badge at home!!) & world affairs.Taking an interest in how people live ( without looking down your nose !- nb -- the idiot Trenchcoat makes more dumbass comments across a few threads today-he personifies how not the think)

The questions that have come up- you need to develop answers to them and be able to answer in a credible way-- I think of it as being 100% truthfull without telling 110% of the fact!!

As  a couple of examples -- I did ( & would) say -- that I hope to be able to meet someone that could become special for me !
Why Ukraine? -- they say the most beautiful women in the world are here/there and I want to see for myself  and of course--it allows me to visit a country  that I am very interested in etc etc

Even now -- when I am alone in Ukraine( not with my lady) these questions come up-- and a lot more so I still get to practice these answers in a vague way -- politely>

The point about not letting a girl know she on just one on a list --is that you create a negative unnecessarily  before you even start.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: LAman on November 13, 2018, 07:42:35 PM


A bigger challenge is to explain “why Ukrainian women?”  My answer is I find them beautiful and they have traditional values I find lacking in many American women.  I know this is a broad generalization, but that’s the gist of it.  I know all Ukrainian women don’t meet this description and I haven’t given up on American women either (I have a date later this week in Chicago).


Why Ukrainian women???? Easy, I am looking at whole world to find my beloved.

Traditional values? Yes way too broad. Ex:  Family is very important for me.  In Ukraine, for women, family is very important. I like that.

If they ask what else, mention the beauty you see in Ukrainian women. Not only physical but in how they take care of themselves.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: LAman on November 13, 2018, 07:46:04 PM


Why Ukraine? -- they say the most beautiful women in the world are here/there and I want to see for myself  and of course--it allows me to visit a country  that I am very interested in etc etc

 


Jay, to me it is superficial to mention the most beautiful women in the world are Ukrainian. Maybe a reason down the line.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on November 13, 2018, 07:53:42 PM
Why Ukraine? -- they say the most beautiful women in the world are here/there and I want to see for myself  and of course--it allows me to visit a country  that I am very interested in etc etc

I had several UW tell me that UW are all pretty.
I reply that this is not true.
It bewilders them.
Later, I may tell a gal that she is pretty.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: JayH on November 13, 2018, 08:10:54 PM
I had several UW tell me that UW are all pretty.
I reply that this is not true.
It bewilders them.
Later, I may tell a gal that she is pretty.
Why Ukrainian women???? Easy, I am looking at whole world to find my beloved.

Traditional values? Yes way too broad. Ex:  Family is very important for me.  In Ukraine, for women, family is very important. I like that.

If they ask what else, mention the beauty you see in Ukrainian women. Not only physical but in how they take care of themselves.

I agree with both of you -- actually is is the overall grooming and presentation that stands out . I think it is clear that looking good is important  and as a result -- more like that . 
  Another point -- Ukraine has a population of over 40 million is not a very large country --   so -- many more per sq km than in physically larger countries.
Last -- in western countries suffering a fat people  epidemic - eg in Ukraine a big framed girl may get to 65kgs and still look good -in the west  it would be 80 -100kgs -- often at 18 yo ! 
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 13, 2018, 08:53:55 PM
I agree with both of you -- actually is is the overall grooming and presentation that stands out . I think it is clear that looking good is important  and as a result -- more like that . 
  Another point -- Ukraine has a population of over 40 million is not a very large country --   so -- many more per sq km than in physically larger countries.
Last -- in western countries suffering a fat people  epidemic - eg in Ukraine a big framed girl may get to 65kgs and still look good -in the west  it would be 80 -100kgs -- often at 18 yo !

Weight is a big factor in all this for me.  The AVERAGE American woman is 77kgs.  75% of American women are overweight.  I live in the Midwest where it’s much worse than other places (it didn’t seem as bad when I lived in CA and FL).

Is this an acceptable thing to mention to UW?  I said something similar to this and the girl said she became nervous that I would divorce her if she gained weight.  Part of me wanted to reassure her... and part of me liked her being scared.  My first wife gained a ton of weight when she got pregnant and kept gaining weight.  By the time we got divorced, she was more than TWICE my weight... around 180kgs... it was extremely disgusting and unhealthy.  She has so many health problems related to her obesity that she is hospitalized at least once a year... sometimes several.

There is no way I can go through that nightmare again (probably why my second wife weighed 52kgs)!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: JayH on November 13, 2018, 09:15:34 PM
Always be careful in introducing a negative that impacts on a fsuw !  If you like-focus on her positives !
A few others added to the way to lead YOUR thoughts ! Parcel that up for others consumption !

One of the major difficulties in cross cultural relationship is the actual meaning of words and the overall intent of a sentence.Choosing words carefully becomes very important so there are no misunderstandings. As en example -- you say -- "you must see zzzz movie" --we see that as saying this is a good thing to do --whereas -- it can be interpreted as a command-- an order !
  Some years ago --I had just met a girl whose English was very very good ( now teaching English in China!!) and at the end of the night I said " I want to see more of you" --mm she recoiled with one of those looks on her face !  Now -- what I meant was to see more as in see again ! You can figure out what she thought at that moment! We are still in contact ( as friends ) and I still coach her in many ways English is used -- and we often laugh about the incident on the day we met !

Funny you mention ex's weight --my Australian ex  ( quite a few years ago now)   kept very fit & trim -- and we used to joke that she stayed that way or I would be gone !!   After we separated she got all the way up to 60kgs ( she is now back at 55kgs-- she was 50kgs earlier)  and she told people that she got fat and I kicked her out !!  The look on people faces gave no end of amusement to her !

My current Ukr lady is 170cm & 53kg and wants to lose a kg or 2 ! She works hard at looking good ( and is very successful !) I am 182cm and currently 79kgs -- I will get back down to 73kgs in the next few months!!

My point earlier about Ukrainian women -- even if a bigger natural frame -- unusual to be fat . We are not all built the same -we are what we are -- and most in the west have no excuse for being way overweight .
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 14, 2018, 12:29:04 AM
Now this I totally agree on. What galls me is the number of fat women you get in the UK who think they are entitled to a relationship, having kids, etc all whilst being vastly overweight and making no effort what so ever! I'm fed up with the amount of times I go to the supermarket, DIY store or wherever just to be 'treated' to another obese woman's big fat arse wobbling past my field of view. What's more I get the impression they seem to feel it's something to be proud off. It's truely a horrific sight.

Take a look at this article I've found online. It's not just me that has noticed it either:

http://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/living/4152218/brit-dating-expert-men-avoid-uk-woman-russian-eastern-european-girls-instead/amp/
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 14, 2018, 01:35:52 AM
Now this I totally agree on. What galls me is the number of fat women you get in the UK who think they are entitled to a relationship, having kids, etc all whilst being vastly overweight and making no effort what so ever! I'm fed up with the amount of times I go to the supermarket, DIY store or wherever just to be 'treated' to another obese woman's big fat arse wobbling past my field of view. What's more I get the impression they seem to feel it's something to be proud off. It's truely a horrific sight.

Take a look at this article I've found online. It's not just me that has noticed it either:

http://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/living/4152218/brit-dating-expert-men-avoid-uk-woman-russian-eastern-european-girls-instead/amp/
A big problem is that the whole “Fat acceptance” movement is gaining global momentum.  This puts doctors and medical professionals in quite a quandary. Obesity is preventable, but obesity related problems are the number one healthcare cost in the US.

Obesity kills, but we are not allowed to talk about it because it hurts fat people’s feelings.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: John Gaunt on November 14, 2018, 02:52:01 AM
Depends of they can get a date or a local deemed worthy enough. By even mid twenties a girl can apparently be left with all the dregs to chose from to date out there. Alcoholics, drug addicts, dim wits, the low paid, unemployed, homeless,  criminals, domestic abusers, etc, etc. Ukraine is a poor country with a few wealthier people.
Any 'advice' from TC should come with a warning label attached. It beggars belief that he has the audacity to comment on the state of Ukrainian men when he could hardly be put forward as the standard bearer for British men or on the poverty in Ukraine when he is poor himself.
As for his knowledge of UKR women, or anything FSU related: :wallbash:
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: John Gaunt on November 14, 2018, 05:43:38 AM
I agree with Donna here. One can glean a lot of information from simple everyday conversations. Enough to build a realistic picture of who the other person is.

I never even thought of WMVM. Getting to know a person just enough before visiting seemed to be the best way forward and it worked for me. We both knew enough about each other to be interested in meeting IRL. So much so, that when we met, we felt comfortable in each other's company from the beginning.

Needless to say, that woman is my wife of 7 years.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: John Gaunt on November 14, 2018, 06:21:26 AM
A big problem is that the whole “Fat acceptance” movement is gaining global momentum.  This puts doctors and medical professionals in quite a quandary. Obesity is preventable, but obesity related problems are the number one healthcare cost in the US.

Obesity kills, but we are not allowed to talk about it because it hurts fat people’s feelings.
One sees efforts to desensitize  the general public in the media through advertising the ‘larger’ sized clothing and figure as beautiful. It also applies to trying to normalize inter racial relationships where such families are portrayed as the norm, when, in fact, they make up a very small proportion of the population.
There’s an agenda for sure.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 14, 2018, 01:41:36 PM
Any 'advice' from TC should come with a warning label attached. It beggars belief that he has the audacity to comment on the state of Ukrainian men when he could hardly be put forward as the standard bearer for British men or on the poverty in Ukraine when he is poor himself.
As for his knowledge of UKR women, or anything FSU related: :wallbash:

A fairly poor UK guy is a pretty wealthy guy when in Ukraine. Even out of Ukraine a fairly poor UK guy in the UK has a far better standard of living than a fairly poor or even average Ukrainian. I only wish we could import Ukrainian girls in solid relationships on mass and export our fatty girls to Ukraine :D
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 14, 2018, 01:50:04 PM
A big problem is that the whole “Fat acceptance” movement is gaining global momentum.  This puts doctors and medical professionals in quite a quandary. Obesity is preventable, but obesity related problems are the number one healthcare cost in the US.

Obesity kills, but we are not allowed to talk about it because it hurts fat people’s feelings.

The problem is the same in the UK, on the radio they advertise how obesity is the no.1 cause of cancer. Doesn't look like the women are taking any norice, they're as fat as ever. Fortunately Eastern Europe appears to be one of the few places where the fat acceptance movement has not yet reached and fortunately doesn't look set to either. In the FSU there is not so much the money to get fat mor the motivation. A fat FSW will almost condemn herself to not getting a man.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: John Gaunt on November 14, 2018, 01:53:58 PM
A fairly poor UK guy is a pretty wealthy guy when in Ukraine. Even out of Ukraine a fairly poor UK guy in the UK has a far better standard of living than a fairly poor or even average Ukrainian. I only wish we could import Ukrainian girls in solid relationships on mass and export our fatty girls to Ukraine :D
A poor person is poor, regardless of where you are. You will not be able to live as locals do so your living costs will always be significantly higher.
I’d like to see how long your ‘wealth’ lasts in poverty stricken Ukraine.
Fortunately, you won’t be importing anyone anytime soon.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GQBlues on November 14, 2018, 02:00:22 PM
One sees efforts to desensitize  the general public in the media through advertising the ‘larger’ sized clothing and figure as beautiful.

Disclaimer: The following video is meant for adult audiences only. Parental guidance is strongly suggested.

http://youtu.be/scPAemhdkrk

So unhealthy...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 14, 2018, 02:01:14 PM
NI'm fed up with the amount of times I go to the supermarket, DIY store or wherever just to be 'treated' to another obese woman's big fat arse wobbling past my field of view. What's more I get the impression they seem to feel it's something to be proud off. It's truely a horrific sight.



bless your lil heart!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 14, 2018, 02:05:17 PM
A poor person is poor, regardless of where you are. You will not be able to live as locals do so your living costs will always be significantly higher.
I’d like to see how long your ‘wealth’ lasts in poverty stricken Ukraine.
Fortunately, you won’t be importing anyone anytime soon.


100%
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 14, 2018, 02:08:56 PM
Now this I totally agree on. What galls me is the number of fat women you get in the UK who think they are entitled to a relationship, having kids, etc all whilst being vastly overweight and making no effort what so ever! I'm fed up with the amount of times I go to the supermarket, DIY store or wherever just to be 'treated' to another obese woman's big fat arse wobbling past my field of view. What's more I get the impression they seem to feel it's something to be proud off. It's truely a horrific sight.

Take a look at this article I've found online. It's not just me that has noticed it either:

http://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/living/4152218/brit-dating-expert-men-avoid-uk-woman-russian-eastern-european-girls-instead/amp/ (http://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/living/4152218/brit-dating-expert-men-avoid-uk-woman-russian-eastern-european-girls-instead/amp/)


Sort of like a men who earn 1/3 of the average wage in their country, and think they are entitled to a pretty girl with a great figure from an economically depressed country.  Preferably, one who will wear short skirts, since that is what "turns on" such economic laggards, will crank out babies, and then, to help support the family, go directly to work at some menial job (as they don't want to pay for her education, as that may "liberate" her too much). 

Funny how that works, isn't it?

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: John Gaunt on November 14, 2018, 02:09:58 PM
Disclaimer: The following video is meant for adult audiences only. Parental guidance is strongly suggested.

http://youtu.be/scPAemhdkrk

So unhealthy...
Lol, not quite what I meant, still.....
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 14, 2018, 02:24:54 PM

Sort of like a men who earn 1/3 of the average wage in their country, and think they are entitled to a pretty girl with a great figure from an economically depressed country.  Preferably, one who will wear short skirts, since that is what "turns on" such economic laggards, will crank out babies, and then, to help support the family, go directly to work at some menial job (as they don't want to pay for her education, as that may "liberate" her too much). 

Funny how that works, isn't it?

This post was composed without the aid of google.

Point is I don't destroy myself (body) gorging on a ton of food all hours of the day, everyday of the week, month & year, every year. I eat a normal diet, I don't do any diets or feel like I'm starving myself, I even eat the odd bit of fast food, chocolate, etc. Why can't a UK girl just eat in a similarly reasonable way, I'm not asking for a highly toned specimen though of course it is nice. But no they have to go out and make an effort to eat tons more than they have too on order to achieve a hideous form. Why should I or any other guy be suggested that we should accept that, I don't pig out like that, it's truely awful.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 14, 2018, 02:28:01 PM
No, instead, you don't apply yourself to a position which would give you a good standard of living. 

You're no different than the fat girl.  You're both entitled, and lazy, in your own ways.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GenMish on November 14, 2018, 04:51:43 PM
Amusing thread
My 2 cents

I think its ridiculous to give a valid reason to give a lady to travel all the way to the FSU is that is that women of the FSU are so much more attractive than those in the USA. Huh? We have PLENTY of attractive women in the USA, FSU women know that.

THE REASON IS...American men travel to the FSU to marry a quality of woman they couldn't get in the USA

It is also not worthwhile saying that FSU women don't have good men available in the FSU. They have good men there. Its rather Intelligent, Educated , Attractive FSU woman can get a  man from the West with something they can not get from FSU men . That's what makes these matchups possible. 

Obesity?
Have you guys spent much time in the FSU? They have fat girls too. Have you seen how much cake and chocolates some FSU women can consume? I just looked up the obesity rates, the same as the Midwest USA for the person that said Midwest women were too obese. The issue is when a western man goes to the FSU, they see all the beauties WALKING, when the same quality women in the US are in their BMWs on their way to a restaurant or Whole Foods

 The same men get home, go to Walmart look at the Walmart customers and think to themselves, 'FSU women are so much better'


 Anyways, does anyone feel sorry for the poor lady that lost her chance to have Brownbear? She could have been 'the one' too. He probably is just too romantic for her. saddddd...She was just one bathroom stall visit away from paradise
lol!
I just found it ironic (ON A TOPIC about justifying meeting multiple people) that the girl that he thought was the one, he turned down because she was honest and had to keep anther engagement 
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 14, 2018, 05:22:36 PM
No, instead, you don't apply yourself to a position which would give you a good standard of living. 

You're no different than the fat girl.  You're both entitled, and lazy, in your own ways.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

I'm neither entitled nor lazy. I've already told you my life style so I won't go over it again here. Ask yourself this though, how many people do you know work in their job AND throughout nearly all their free time?

I get your point regardless I come across as not offering the comfortable lifestyle a girl might make an effort to keep trim for. That is largely out of my hands, because women are now competing heavily in the workplace against men wages have gone done and neither side win nor get what they want. There's loads of graphs around that show wages have been going down in real terms compared to the seventies. Every decade is worse than the last whilst house prices have been moving in the opposite direction dramatically.

It would be pointless for me to apply to positions that are more professional/grades up from what I currently do. The money wold be little better, particularly after tax. This is not the US or Canada where you get a decent amount more. In the UK you get a piddly amount more but get a load of stress and ordeal. After being dumped with the burden/overburden of your employers organisation dating would be the last thing you'd have on your mind.

Apart from  my family being in the UK, being English by birth and only speaking English as a fluent language there is little good reason to be in the UK. The Pound being a stronger currency than the FSU currencies is one of the few positives that helps me. If I can get an independent income sorted in the UK then I can go to Ukraine at least part of the year and live well. Really I have got fed up of having to look at fat women every time I leave my front door in the UK. I can walk out in Ukraine and see people that are normal enough everyday sgape, no hippo's, weeldebeast, buffalo's  or elephants to shock my brain into severe trauma.

Instead I find women that are soft, friendly and feminine and easy to date. I find accomodation and shopping at an nice affordable rate. I can live well out there on what is only a modest amount of money by UK standards. Here you don't even get the reward of decent women when you work your rear end off, here for working your rear end of your social life will suck as a guy.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 14, 2018, 05:40:44 PM
Amusing thread
My 2 cents

I think its ridiculous to give a valid reason to give a lady to travel all the way to the FSU is that is that women of the FSU are so much more attractive than those in the USA. Huh? We have PLENTY of attractive women in the USA, FSU women know that.

THE REASON IS...American men travel to the FSU to marry a quality of woman they couldn't get in the USA

It is also not worthwhile saying that FSU women don't have good men available in the FSU. They have good men there. Its rather Intelligent, Educated , Attractive FSU woman can get a  man from the West with something they can not get from FSU men . That's what makes these matchups possible. 

Obesity?
Have you guys spent much time in the FSU? They have fat girls too. Have you seen how much cake and chocolates some FSU women can consume? I just looked up the obesity rates, the same as the Midwest USA for the person that said Midwest women were too obese. The issue is when a western man goes to the FSU, they see all the beauties WALKING, when the same quality women in the US are in their BMWs on their way to a restaurant or Whole Foods

 The same men get home, go to Walmart look at the Walmart customers and think to themselves, 'FSU women are so much better'


 Anyways, does anyone feel sorry for the poor lady that lost her chance to have Brownbear? She could have been 'the one' too. He probably is just too romantic for her. saddddd...She was just one bathroom stall visit away from paradise
lol!
I just found it ironic (ON A TOPIC about justifying meeting multiple people) that the girl that he thought was the one, he turned down because she was honest and had to keep anther engagement

I don't think the obesity is the same, some areas will be comparable as not all of the US will have fat women. I think people can play with statistics to make it look that way which isn't helpful. Having been to the FSU several times I would say there are a lot less fat women there. I think yes it does tend to be the more attractive women that tend to play in the International dating scene. If you look at some of the women doing the more menial jobs in the FSU, the female cleaners, grocery store clerks, etc most are more everyday looking, not necessarily ugly but not model like either. When at Minsk Airport on arrival in the early evening I looked over the balcony and saw some guy meeting a real hottie - a nice short tight black dress on, a great slim figure, pretty young girl. Comparing her to a couple of cleaner girls that walked past moments after they were more everyday looking and I'm pretty sure would not bother to get involved in the International dating scene knowing that they would not be what is being looked for. Not quite true I think but I think these fairly ordinary looking girls would think that even though if tarted up a bit they could be runners, they too were slim & young but only being 6s or maybe a 7 if tarted up probably didn't think they would make the cut. Shame as if they were open to it they would probably be decent girls to get with.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 14, 2018, 06:59:44 PM
Here's an article which shows we here in the UK have the most fat girls in Europe:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-health/10863001/Why-are-British-girls-so-fat.html
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on November 14, 2018, 11:39:13 PM
I don't think the obesity is the same, some areas will be comparable as not all of the US will have fat women. I think people can play with statistics to make it look that way which isn't helpful. Having been to the FSU several times I would say there are a lot less fat women there. I think yes it does tend to be the more attractive women that tend to play in the International dating scene. If you look at some of the women doing the more menial jobs in the FSU, the female cleaners, grocery store clerks, etc most are more everyday looking, not necessarily ugly but not model like either. When at Minsk Airport on arrival in the early evening I looked over the balcony and saw some guy meeting a real hottie - a nice short tight black dress on, a great slim figure, pretty young girl. Comparing her to a couple of cleaner girls that walked past moments after they were more everyday looking and I'm pretty sure would not bother to get involved in the International dating scene knowing that they would not be what is being looked for. Not quite true I think but I think these fairly ordinary looking girls would think that even though if tarted up a bit they could be runners, they too were slim & young but only being 6s or maybe a 7 if tarted up probably didn't think they would make the cut. Shame as if they were open to it they would probably be decent girls to get with.

The moment I read Trench say. "I think" - as I know he doesn't - that there will follow something particularly daft ...

This summary of hot and dirty v 'clean' girls is just another pile of ...

All one can say is the 6/7 'clean' lasses can be glad they will not get your attention and you can only dream of pulling the hotties in the little black dresses


Trench, even IF you manged to pull an FSU lass - you simply cannot afford 'em and cannot prove you can - as your salary doesn't meet the minimum needed




Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 15, 2018, 12:22:38 AM
The moment I read Trench say. "I think" - as I know he doesn't - that there follow something particularly daft ...

This summary of hot and dirty v 'clean' girls is just another pile of ...

All one can say is the 6/7 'clean' lasses can be glad they will not get your attention and you can only dream of pulling the hotties in the little black dresses


Trench, even IF you manged to pull an FSU lass - you simply cannot afford 'em and cannot prove you can - as your salary doesn't meet the minimum needed

We'very been over this. I can simply do a few more hours to get over the boundary I need at the appropiate time. I need to find a girl first then get to know her. Getting to know her could easily take the minimum 6 months at which I need to earn that wage level of £18,600 a year or more. In addition wages have been rising but the £18.6k has remained the same for several years now so it's getting easier to achieve :)

Anyway, take your 'SC' how long has she been kept waiting to join you permanently in UK/Rep of Ireland now, remind me, in years? Lol.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on November 15, 2018, 12:56:49 AM
Nice attempted deflection, Trench

You cannot afford to support a newly arrived FSU woman in the UK - esp in the south of the UK on 19K / year

THAT is why you fear losing her

The limit will go up, soon ..

SC lives in the climate she prefers and that lifestyle cost more than 19K a year

I await her in a place from where we are watching the BBC weather saying it will be 6C in the south of England in a few days and we will be thinking of you, as we take breakfast by the pool ;)



Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 15, 2018, 06:28:42 AM
I'm neither entitled nor lazy.

Yes you are.  Just read the entire body of your posts here.  You believe you are entitled to an FSUW because you hold a UK passport. 

You don't want to work, even to improve your chances of finding a bride, which is lazy.
Quote

Ask yourself this though, how many people do you know work in their job AND throughout nearly all their free time?

I know people who work 80 hour weeks, so although they don't really have "free time", they are choosing to make work a priority.  I knew one lawyer who literally, worked 7 days a week, 365 days a year.  He came into the office at 4 am, worked until 3, went home to sleep 2 hours and have dinner with his family, came back to the office for another 4 or 5 hours, then went home to sleep. 

But I digress.  I know no one who professes to have an advanced degree who is making below minimum wage willingly.  That, to me, says either you cannot find work because of interpersonal skills, or you choose to work less, meaning, you are lazy.

Quote
I get your point regardless I come across as not offering the comfortable lifestyle a girl might make an effort to keep trim for. That is largely out of my hands, because women are now competing heavily in the workplace against men wages have gone done and neither side win nor get what they want. There's loads of graphs around that show wages have been going down in real terms compared to the seventies. Every decade is worse than the last whilst house prices have been moving in the opposite direction dramatically.

No, that's not what I am saying.  Most women do not keep trim for a man.  They keep trim for themselves. 

Women are not "competing" with men for wages, and the idea that women in the workforce is the cause of stagnant wages is absurd.  Japan has under 3% unemployment, and wages there are stagnant as well.

Quote
It would be pointless for me to apply to positions that are more professional/grades up from what I currently do. The money wold be little better, particularly after tax. This is not the US or Canada where you get a decent amount more. In the UK you get a piddly amount more but get a load of stress and ordeal. After being dumped with the burden/overburden of your employers organisation dating would be the last thing you'd have on your mind.

Sounds like an excuse because you don't want to work.
Quote
Apart from  my family being in the UK, being English by birth and only speaking English as a fluent language there is little good reason to be in the UK. The Pound being a stronger currency than the FSU currencies is one of the few positives that helps me. If I can get an independent income sorted in the UK then I can go to Ukraine at least part of the year and live well. Really I have got fed up of having to look at fat women every time I leave my front door in the UK. I can walk out in Ukraine and see people that are normal enough everyday sgape, no hippo's, weeldebeast, buffalo's  or elephants to shock my brain into severe trauma.

You aren't planning on sleeping with those women, so why are you so offended?  That is misogynistic and, frankly, a disgusting attitude toward people  you don't know.

Quote
Instead I find women that are soft, friendly and feminine and easy to date. I find accomodation and shopping at an nice affordable rate. I can live well out there on what is only a modest amount of money by UK standards. Here you don't even get the reward of decent women when you work your rear end off, here for working your rear end of your social life will suck as a guy.
You don't know the social cues in Ukraine.  You are treated better because you are a potential source of income.  Move there, let the locals see that you're cheap, and their attitudes toward you will harden.  You are living in a fantasy world if you believe Ukraine is an easy place to live, or filled with people of refined manners.  It's still a boorish, proletarian culture.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 15, 2018, 06:40:52 AM
"You are living in a fantasy world if you believe Ukraine is an easy place to live, or filled with people of refined manners.  It's still a boorish, proletarian culture."

BO, you rock!!!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 15, 2018, 07:46:07 AM
Amusing thread

 Anyways, does anyone feel sorry for the poor lady that lost her chance to have Brownbear? She could have been 'the one' too. He probably is just too romantic for her. saddddd...She was just one bathroom stall visit away from paradise
lol!
I just found it ironic (ON A TOPIC about justifying meeting multiple people) that the girl that he thought was the one, he turned down because she was honest and had to keep anther engagement

I left a little part of that story out.  When the girl called, she almost convinced me to give her another chance.  I asked her out that next Friday.  She said she couldn’t Friday because she had another date that she had already scheduled.  She said she could do Saturday, but not too early because she will have to go back home. The guy was taking her to a concert that was going to run pretty late, so she was planning on spending the night at his house.

Yea, that poor girl..
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 15, 2018, 08:38:07 AM
Okay, so “miss hottie” who was dying to meet me at the airport has been blowing me off lately, so I started chatting with other girls... just in case.

Then, it happened... I saw this girl’s profile.  She may be the most beautiful girl I have ever seen.  I knew it was a one in a million shot, but I sent her a message anyway.  She responded and I quickly got her number to go on Viber.  We chatted for about five hours and then decided to video chat. She was just as beautiful in person even though she was just wearing a bathrobe and no makeup.  The call was a little awkward because her spoken English is not very good, but we both felt a mutual connection.  We agreed to go back to texting.

I stayed up all night texting her, she is taking university classes and she cut class to keep talking to me.  Neither of us wanted the conversation to end.  We ended up chatting for more than 24 hours, almost nonstop. We shared everything about our lives... we exchanged well over 100 pictures of our lives.

Maybe, just maybe, I understand what Donna Pedro was talking about... this great connection.  I have no desire to talk to any other girls at this point. I can’t even think about a plan “b”.  I just want to talk to this girl and only this girl. I have never felt so “committed” to a prospect.  Maybe it’s foolish... maybe it’s lack of sleep.  I have removed my online profiles and I only have one focus right now.

I have also seen how easy it is to drum up a conversation online with a girl and ask for a date, so I can figure out a plan b when I am in country, if I have to.

As for this economic debate goes... The girls I have been talking to do not seem to have financial problems. I can only picture one of them who would take the economic hit and hook up with a poor foreigner (sorry TC) this girl is an unemployed widow with a one year old baby.  Otherwise, these girls don’t seem too desperate.

One girl is the child of a doctor. She has a good government job. She has a nice apartment in Kiev and a country home too.  The girl I just met has a Kiev Apartment and another home in Poltovo. Her family owns a luxury hotel. She goes to Egypt and Greece and other places across Europe every year.  She is actually skeptical and asked me what the US standard of living is.  I was dismayed when I saw it was ranked 17 on a list (Ukraine was 73).  This girl is not a gold digger... She just doesn’t want to go from being well off, to being poor.  Her lifestyle and social status may actually go down a notch.  I own a small brewery... so does her family... but her operation is easily 10 times the size of mine.  It’s actually quite humbling.  Her last boyfriend was rich, but he didn’t want a family.  She told me she wants love and a family, and doesn’t care if she isn’t rich.

So, I’m glad I approach these women rather humbly and sell them on “me” instead of acting like the rich foreigner who will rescue her from her wretched life.  This latest girl’s ties to home are so deep that it may even be a relationship killer. She was in a long term relationship with a guy from Switzerland, but that is so much closer to Ukraine.  If it works out with this girl, the solution may be for us to live in Ukraine in the summers. I don’t think I would mind.

Maybe some people are desperate and want to be rescued... but not everyone.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 15, 2018, 08:59:22 AM
One girl is the child of a doctor. She has a good government job. She has a nice apartment in Kiev and a country home too. 

Doctors in Kyiv make, on average, 10,000 hyrvnia a month, or US$360 a month.  That is not even the average wage in Kyiv, which is over US$400.

Government jobs in Ukraine are generally not well paying.  Some are stable, others, such as teachers, often don't get paid.

Apartments were mostly inherited from Soviet times.  A "country home", or dacha, is usually granny's village home, although some people built their own dachas.

Quote
The girl I just met has a Kiev Apartment and another home in Poltovo.

Poltava.  It's an agricultural region, and is bleeding people.  She probably has family roots there.
Quote

Her family owns a luxury hotel. She goes to Egypt and Greece and other places across Europe every year.  She is actually skeptical and asked me what the US standard of living is.  I was dismayed when I saw it was ranked 17 on a list (Ukraine was 73).  This girl is not a gold digger... She just doesn’t want to go from being well off, to being poor.  Her lifestyle and social status may actually go down a notch.  I own a small brewery... so does her family... but her operation is easily 10 times the size of mine.  It’s actually quite humbling.  Her last boyfriend was rich, but he didn’t want a family.  She told me she wants love and a family, and doesn’t care if she isn’t rich.

A suggestion - drop her.  No one in Ukraine gets that type of property without dipping their toes in criminality.  The only way to own a brewery is to steal it and say it's mine.  I'm not suggesting she's a criminal, but her family did not get rich without engaging in criminal activity.  She will have certain attitudes and expectations.  I've seen it a thousand times.  A lot of these families look for foreign connections because their money is locked in the country. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 15, 2018, 09:16:20 AM
"A lot of these families look for foreign connections because their money is locked in the country."

shhhhh, BO
don't let the "cat out of the bag"!!!!


"Doctors in Kyiv make, on average, 10,000 hyrvnia a month, or US$360 a month."

official salary maybe
under the table maybe 3 to 5 times this depending on type of doctor, location, etc
plus whatever they can steal

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 15, 2018, 09:23:12 AM
People in the West take those with wealth there as a matter of fact, because the way we build wealth is based on the rule of law.  That doesn't exist in the FSU.  Think of Ukraine's wealth as being built the same way El Chapo built his wealth.  If that's a family you'd be willing to marry into, then go for it.

official salary maybe
under the table maybe 3 to 5 times this depending on type of doctor, location, etc
plus whatever they can steal


True, they get paid more by patients if they work in the public sector, but it's not 3 or 5 X the salary.  A surgeon, maybe.  I had a relative that needed a complicated surgery.  Total cost, for 3 surgeries - US$100.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 15, 2018, 09:32:51 AM
So everyone is either poor, or a criminal?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 15, 2018, 09:38:35 AM

According to my husband, an FSU citizen, "That's exactly what it is."


I see it a bit differently.  There is a small middle class, mostly working in industries where they can earn their incomes from foreign sources.  But it is a very small class.  Anyone who owns a hotel, or a brewery, or a candy factory, obtained that property via theft.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: John Gaunt on November 15, 2018, 09:40:35 AM
According to my husband, an FSU citizen, "That's exactly what it is."


I see it a bit differently.  There is a small middle class, mostly working in industries where they can earn their incomes from foreign sources.  But it is a very small class.  Anyone who owns a hotel, or a brewery, or a candy factory, obtained that property via theft.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

🤔😃😂
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: LAman on November 15, 2018, 09:58:56 AM
Okay, so “miss hottie” who was dying to meet me at the airport has been blowing me off lately, so I started chatting with other girls... just in case.

Then, it happened... I saw this girl’s profile.  She may be the most beautiful girl I have ever seen.  I knew it was a one in a million shot, but I sent her a message anyway.  She responded and I quickly got her number to go on Viber.  We chatted for about five hours and then decided to video chat. She was just as beautiful in person even though she was just wearing a bathrobe and no makeup.  The call was a little awkward because her spoken English is not very good, but we both felt a mutual connection.  We agreed to go back to texting.

I stayed up all night texting her, she is taking university classes and she cut class to keep talking to me.  Neither of us wanted the conversation to end.  We ended up chatting for more than 24 hours, almost nonstop. We shared everything about our lives... we exchanged well over 100 pictures of our lives.

Maybe, just maybe, I understand what Donna Pedro was talking about... this great connection.  I have no desire to talk to any other girls at this point. I can’t even think about a plan “b”.  I just want to talk to this girl and only this girl. I have never felt so “committed” to a prospect.  Maybe it’s foolish... maybe it’s lack of sleep.  I have removed my online profiles and I only have one focus right now.

I have also seen how easy it is to drum up a conversation online with a girl and ask for a date, so I can figure out a plan b when I am in country, if I have to.

As for this economic debate goes... The girls I have been talking to do not seem to have financial problems. I can only picture one of them who would take the economic hit and hook up with a poor foreigner (sorry TC) this girl is an unemployed widow with a one year old baby.  Otherwise, these girls don’t seem too desperate.

One girl is the child of a doctor. She has a good government job. She has a nice apartment in Kiev and a country home too.  The girl I just met has a Kiev Apartment and another home in Poltovo. Her family owns a luxury hotel. She goes to Egypt and Greece and other places across Europe every year.  She is actually skeptical and asked me what the US standard of living is.  I was dismayed when I saw it was ranked 17 on a list (Ukraine was 73).  This girl is not a gold digger... She just doesn’t want to go from being well off, to being poor.  Her lifestyle and social status may actually go down a notch.  I own a small brewery... so does her family... but her operation is easily 10 times the size of mine.  It’s actually quite humbling.  Her last boyfriend was rich, but he didn’t want a family.  She told me she wants love and a family, and doesn’t care if she isn’t rich.

So, I’m glad I approach these women rather humbly and sell them on “me” instead of acting like the rich foreigner who will rescue her from her wretched life.  This latest girl’s ties to home are so deep that it may even be a relationship killer. She was in a long term relationship with a guy from Switzerland, but that is so much closer to Ukraine.  If it works out with this girl, the solution may be for us to live in Ukraine in the summers. I don’t think I would mind.

Maybe some people are desperate and want to be rescued... but not everyone.

Sounds like you're just going to be jumping from girl to girl with nothing to end up with and plenty of sightseeing alone.

Very telling how you fall for anyone giving you any attention.

>>>>>>The call was a little awkward because her spoken English is not very good, but we both felt a mutual connection


Very funny, talked for 24 hours with someone who's English is not very good? Summers in Ukraine??hahha

I think you meant: "but I felt a mutual connection".
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 15, 2018, 10:22:20 AM
Sounds like you're just going to be jumping from girl to girl with nothing to end up with and plenty of sightseeing alone.

Very telling how you fall for anyone giving you any attention.

>>>>>>The call was a little awkward because her spoken English is not very good, but we both felt a mutual connection


Very funny, talked for 24 hours with someone who's English is not very good? Summers in Ukraine??hahha

I think you meant: "but I felt a mutual connection".
Ever hear of google translate?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 15, 2018, 10:30:40 AM
It's better than it used to be, but it only gives you the gist of what is said.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 15, 2018, 10:41:39 AM
According to my husband, an FSU citizen, "That's exactly what it is."


I see it a bit differently.  There is a small middle class, mostly working in industries where they can earn their incomes from foreign sources.  But it is a very small class.  Anyone who owns a hotel, or a brewery, or a candy factory, obtained that property via theft.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Well, this girl is definitely not on the poor side of the coin.  She just decided at the last minute to spend a week at the Hilton in Kemer, Turkey.

Come to think of it... her dad does look like a Russian mafia crime boss out of the movies... I better keep an eye on him.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 15, 2018, 10:42:57 AM
Then the probability is, you are a means to an end.  You won't know that until well after the fact.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 15, 2018, 10:45:06 AM
It's better than it used to be, but it only gives you the gist of what is said.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
The conversations I have had with google translate flow much better than many conversations where the girl has “good” English speaking skills.... except the girl who was a professional translator.  She was close to fluent.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 15, 2018, 10:50:09 AM
What I mean is that they are typically close, but do not convey exactly what is said.  That usually results in misunderstandings.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 15, 2018, 10:57:28 AM
"The conversations I have had with google translate flow much better..."

I almost hurt myself from laughing so hard when I read this...
these priceless pearls of humor are TOTALLY the reason I come here
hilarious

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 15, 2018, 11:25:05 AM
What I mean is that they are typically close, but do not convey exactly what is said.  That usually results in misunderstandings.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
There is definitely a huge opportunity for misunderstanding.  I was trying to help out the conversation by translating my words into Russian.  She sent me a silly home video...I told her I thought it was “silly” but it translated into “stupid”.  From that point, she said “I will do the translating”.  She knows enough English to correct bad translations, so she never looks foolish (like I did).
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: jone on November 15, 2018, 11:50:45 AM
There is definitely a huge opportunity for misunderstanding.  I was trying to help out the conversation by translating my words into Russian.  She sent me a silly home video...I told her I thought it was “silly” but it translated into “stupid”.  From that point, she said “I will do the translating”.  She knows enough English to correct bad translations, so she never looks foolish (like I did).

Hmm.  Week at the Hilton in Turkey?   

Just made the decision?   Wonder who is sponsoring her to be there?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 15, 2018, 11:55:02 AM
Hmm.  Week at the Hilton in Turkey?   

Just made the decision?   Wonder who is sponsoring her to be there?
Her parents
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: jone on November 15, 2018, 12:15:45 PM
Been there, done that. 

But!  Seems out of the ordinary to, all of a sudden, make a decision to make a trip to Turkey (of all places).   And camp out at the Hilton.

Keep a weather eye open.   Especially if this gal is as beautiful as you make her out to be.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 15, 2018, 12:25:51 PM
Been there, done that. 

But!  Seems out of the ordinary to, all of a sudden, make a decision to make a trip to Turkey (of all places).   And camp out at the Hilton.

Keep a weather eye open.   Especially if this gal is as beautiful as you make her out to be.

Thanks for the heads up. I’m always suspicious... at least a little bit. At the same time I try to extend a bit of trust until they give me a reason not to.  I guess that’s the difficult part about courting someone in another continent.  You never really know what they are doing or who they are with unless you are on video chat 24x7
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 15, 2018, 01:17:28 PM
I left a little part of that story out.  When the girl called, she almost convinced me to give her another chance.  I asked her out that next Friday.  She said she couldn’t Friday because she had another date that she had already scheduled.  She said she could do Saturday, but not too early because she will have to go back home. The guy was taking her to a concert that was going to run pretty late, so she was planning on spending the night at his house.

Yea, that poor girl..


But she was simply doing a WMVM approach! Some of you even encourage women to see other men. And here is what happens when they do.   Obviousely Brownbear is not THAT open minded (my attempt at humor)..
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 15, 2018, 01:32:40 PM

But she was simply doing a WMVM approach! Some of you even encourage women to see other men. And here is what happens when they do.   Obviousely Brownbear is not THAT open minded (my attempt at humor)..
Hahaha!

Don’t you realize the difference in what I am saying?

When I find someone I like, I don’t keep dating other girls.

I remember one other girl did a similar thing to me and her response was, “You wouldn’t buy the first pair of jeans you tried on, would you?”
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 15, 2018, 01:34:08 PM
talked for 24 hours with someone who's English is not very good? Summers in Ukraine??hahha




Summers in Ukraine I would not encourage, however in situation described ny Browbear, in  order  to talk for such a long time both a man and a woman  would have to apply considerable efforts. And it looks like she did apply efforts too, not just him. Which means she was interested. Actually, even when english is good, talking a foreign language for for 24 hours  is difficult.. Everything 2 hours+ is difficult even after 17 years speaking it everyday.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 15, 2018, 01:39:10 PM
Hahaha!

Don’t you realize the difference in what I am saying?

When I find someone I like, I don’t keep dating other girls.

I remember one other girl did a similar thing to me and her response was, “You wouldn’t buy the first pair of jeans you tried on, would you?”


Sorry,  I was just using your experience to make my own point.




Quote
You wouldn’t buy the first pair of jeans you tried on, would you?”


Interesting  comparison, I am not sure I agree to it..  But still, the answer is  -  I would and I did. If the first one fits and looks nice - I am not looking anymore.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 15, 2018, 01:55:05 PM

Summers in Ukraine I would not encourage, however in situation described ny Browbear, in  order  to talk for such a long time both a man and a woman  would have to apply considerable efforts. And it looks like she did apply efforts too, not just him. Which means she was interested. Actually, even when english is good, talking a foreign language for for 24 hours  is difficult.. Everything 2 hours+ is difficult even after 17 years speaking it everyday.

Problem is it can all evaporate into nothing when on meeting if there is no chemistry. The girl I met in Minsk a couple of months back wanted to talk on video chat & message way more than I did. I knew to keep it short so as not to waste loads of time and keep her interest keen. So keen in fact she was a bit miffed at me keep calling it short, lol.

Being friends in such a situation is of course possible. It no doubt has its merits but I'm not there for that, if it were a girl who I could see as being someone I would see as fitting with me as a frIend - i.e similar interests or outlook I probably would but otherwise I view it as a bit pointless.

Why not to encourage Summers in Ukraine? I found it quite nice out there in Summer, particularly around Odessa, etc. So long as you can stay out of any trouble which may rear up but that's not been a problem since Maiden in the main. I've found it generally pretty cordial all the time I've been out there like any other fairly civilised country. In the main tourists are not bothered so long as they don't go looking for trouble or be real idiots.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on November 15, 2018, 02:30:45 PM
Problem is it can all evaporate into nothing when on meeting if there is no chemistry. The girl I met in Minsk a couple of months back wanted to talk on video chat & message way more than I did. I knew to keep it short so as not to waste loads of time and keep her interest keen. So keen in fact she was a bit miffed at me keep calling it short, lol.

...and how did that 'tactic' work out ? .... I missed that she was to become Mrs Trench ...

Matey, you dislike VC because of the issues YOU have with the questions you'll get asked and are surprised when you pitch up and there's no 'chemistry' ....   You just didn't allow her to do 'due diligence' on YOU......

I think 'no chemistry; means she's not interested to jump your bones when she see's your attitude and her lights have gone out - leaving you wondering, "Huh? AGAIN ?"

Stop blamin' the gal and look at yourself, man ....




Being friends in such a situation is of course possible. It no doubt has its merits but I'm not there for that, if it were a girl who I could see as being someone I would see as fitting with me as a frIend - i.e similar interests or outlook I probably would but otherwise I view it as a bit pointless.

I learnt LOADS from ladies that it didn't work out with  - you are missing out on hints to do better



Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: LAman on November 15, 2018, 04:10:34 PM

Summers in Ukraine I would not encourage, however in situation described ny Browbear, in  order  to talk for such a long time both a man and a woman  would have to apply considerable efforts. And it looks like she did apply efforts too, not just him. Which means she was interested. Actually, even when english is good, talking a foreign language for for 24 hours  is difficult.. Everything 2 hours+ is difficult even after 17 years speaking it everyday.


When you first me somebody, its kind of exciting, everything you talk about is new.

My guess this girl had nothing else going on with her as opposed to being truly interested into our Price Charming.

This girl is so interested in our OP, she tells him that all of a sudden decided to go to Turkey. Who knows with who, although the knowledgeable here know.

BTW- Sorry if i come across as a doubter Mr Beard, just seen this situation with your 'girls' so much I do feel sorry for what you have to deal with.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 15, 2018, 04:13:33 PM
Problem is it can all evaporate into nothing when on meeting if there is no chemistry. The girl I met in Minsk a couple of months back wanted to talk on video chat & message way more than I did. I knew to keep it short so as not to waste loads of time and keep her interest keen. So keen in fact she was a bit miffed at me keep calling it short, lol.

Being friends in such a situation is of course possible. It no doubt has its merits but I'm not there for that, if it were a girl who I could see as being someone I would see as fitting with me as a frIend - i.e similar interests or outlook I probably would but otherwise I view it as a bit pointless.

Why not to encourage Summers in Ukraine? I found it quite nice out there in Summer, particularly around Odessa, etc. So long as you can stay out of any trouble which may rear up but that's not been a problem since Maiden in the main. I've found it generally pretty cordial all the time I've been out there like any other fairly civilised country. In the main tourists are not bothered so long as they don't go looking for trouble or be real idiots.
I’m racking my brain to remember a time when I have used video chat before a date and it didn’t work out.  I can remember dates where we talked extensively on the phone and it didn’t work out... that was usually because they severely  misrepresented themselves with their pictures.  This problem would have been solved by VC.

I can only recall three outcomes after VC personally.  1. I lose interest in her.  2. She loses interest in me.  3. We meet and hit it off really well.

I have only had high enough interest in three UW this past month or so that I even wanted to VC.  The first wasn’t very good, but everything else was good (we could still talk for hours on the phone after an awkward video chat).  The second was awesome, but she lost interest over time.  The third one had the best chemistry, even though she has the lowest English ability. Chemistry can exist over the internet and it’s not dependent on Language as much as you might think.

When I was in the Army over 20 years ago in Korea, my friend dragged me on a double date. The girl he was with didn’t trust him to go out alone with her, so they both agreed to bring a friend.  The girl I was set up with was really cute, but didn’t speak a word of English.  We went to the beach, and a small amusement park.  The only conversation consisted of me pointing an asking how to say something in Korean. (This is how I learned that “ghia” is “rat” as there were many large rats on the beach in Pusan). I remember getting up the nerve to hold her hand on the Ferris wheel... and she clutched back tightly.... by the end of the night, I was making out with this girl in the Hotel room my friend and I shared.  It might have gone further, but her friend wanted to go home, so they left.

Anyway, chemistry is an interesting thing.  You can’t force it if it isn’t there, butnif it’s strong, you can make a lot of mistakes and still get the girl.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 15, 2018, 04:32:49 PM

When you first me somebody, its kind of exciting, everything you talk about is new.

My guess this girl had nothing else going on with her as opposed to being truly interested into our Price Charming.

This girl is so interested in our OP, she tells him that all of a sudden decided to go to Turkey. Who knows with who, although the knowledgeable here know.

BTW- Sorry if i come across as a doubter Mr Beard, just seen this situation with your 'girls' so much I do feel sorry for what you have to deal with.
Okay, so I asked the girl more about her trip to Turkey. It turns out that it was planned for awhile. She mentioned it because she realized that she won’t be back home until my second day in Ukraine and she wanted to meet me at the airport when I arrived.  She still wants to go out with me the day she gets back. I jokingly said I could meet her in Turkey.  She got really excited... she was let down when I told her I was kidding. I don’t think she would be excited if she was going with another man.  She texts me a hundred or more times throughout the day... I doubt she will keep this up if she is on vacation with another guy.

Are you familiar with Occam’s Razor?  Instead of crazy theories of how a girl spends hours on end talking to me and making plans and sharing all her hopes and dreams... just because she is bored...  Have you considered the fact that maybe she just likes me?

I think it’s humorous that some board members are so rooted in their disdain for me that they can’t accept the idea that maybe some girls actually like me.

I’m sure if I get engaged, these same board members will say She is using me.  If I am happily married for ten years, they will say I am lying...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 15, 2018, 05:01:20 PM

When you first me somebody, its kind of exciting, everything you talk about is new.




True. But in a few  hours, if a girl is fluent in english language, you usually  cover all the interesting topics. The guy is  done telling all his catchy anekdotes and then comes an akward pause in a conversation and everything else depends on how interested  parties are. If you  are interested, you look for questions to ask, listen to the answers and ask more questions.  If a girl struggles with English language, in 2 hours she is tired  and wants to stop the conversation because he brain is about to start smoking. If she is still talking, that means she is very interested. Using video chats helps a lot. At least you can be 75% sure you have chemistry.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 15, 2018, 05:01:39 PM
I learnt LOADS from ladies that it didn't work out with  - you are missing out on hints to do better

For her I wasn't the type of guy she thought of me in her mind - even though she had video chatted with me. Some FSW are so taken with the idea of meeting foreigners they lose rationality. I uderstand a person can be different in person than what you build them up to be in your mind.

She told me off a couple of areas she was looking for that I didn't cover. I didn't hold it against her but she was a theatre type, I wasn't, her English was improving while we were together gradually a little, we could kind off talk but it was a bit flat in the main. We were two different people, we were like chalk and cheese. I wondered this before meeting but she seemed real keen and eagerly communicating with me. I wanted to see what Minsk/Belarus scene was like so I thought why not. Crucially though the chemistry was not there with her.

So I decided to call it a day early with her, I don't hold it against her for staring what she wants. It's an area I am now working on improving. I don't take it personally. However I could see if we were to spend the remaining weekend together we would just irritate each other. I was quite eager to explore the city and if I could meet up with another girl on the hoof then I would have done so.

In addition I learnt that common interests really are something to head more towards. Totally different ie disinterests are probably something to avoid. I am also suspicious she may be after away to get out of Belarus when the moment suits to get better in her career.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: LAman on November 15, 2018, 05:07:35 PM
Mr Beard, I found your first thread here from 3 years ago under introductions. You had quite the thread. Just wondering what you had done/learned in your life since then. Did you ever take that trip to an FSU country?
I found one post that summed up much of your thread:

Back this train wreck up.....
I can't believe my eyes, I read this whole thread and all I have to say is WOW!   I am not even sure how to reply, someone needs to get real honest with you BB. I am not going to quote pieces of your thread....Just take the time to go back through it and read it yourself.

First off I am not attacking you in anyway...I am really trying to help. IMO you are not ready to meet a FSUW or any other woman at this time...
You are all over the map here. You speak about logic, statistics and that you are a data analyst.
Everything about you is self image....Not once did I read about your good heart, your high moral standard and character. Life's enjoyment and all the other positives.

Anyone that gives you advice and you don't like it, you want to defend your position or attack them.
Try that with a normal FSU woman and you will get your ass handed to you.

You mention that you are the "Dad of the year" and you would take on a wet bobcat for your children. Then you boast about riding a 180mph motorcycle, skiing, mountain climbing, boating and extreme sports. Doesn't sound too logical for a single parent to engage in high risk activities for fear of losing his life, making his kids life a living hell. Also showing your new woman that she well could be a young widow with a bunch of kids.

You talk about being one of the most intelligent people, with a IQ that is only of 1-2% of the earths population. The truth is a IQ of a 140 something won't even get you a application to Mensa which they claim to have 1-2% intelligent people in the world. Statistics show intelligent people don't have basic common sense.

You always mention that you are looking for a smoking hot woman, external beauty is #1 on your shopping list....Why is that? to make yourself look good? maybe ask yourself that question. Not once have you mentioned you are looking for a good woman. A woman who has a good heart, who is kind and loving. A woman of integrity and is as loyal as the day is long....all you are looking for is a hot body that will play mom to your kids. You even mention that you are not in it for love....Isn't that what it's all about? Love...

Then you think having a Masters from a ivy league like Harvard is something. When the truth is that statistics show most "white collar criminals" come from Harvard.

How can you be at the peak of your game with only a few hours of sleep a day....it takes longer than that to reach REM.

I could go on and on here. My advice is you need to learn yourself, you haven't yet. If we don't learn from our mistakes, we get to repeat them until we learn.

I probably know what your bio reads on your profile.

Maybe you need to look for "sponsors", not dating or marriage sites. Look at some of the FSU sponsor sites. They are for people who are looking for "benefits"...You can find your beautiful woman...she will play mommy and she will have things that she wants from you...check it out, it may work for you
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 15, 2018, 05:17:10 PM
Mr Beard, I found your first thread here from 3 years ago under introductions. You had quite the thread. Just wondering what you had done/learned in your life since then. Did you ever take that trip to an FSU country?
I found one post that summed up much of your thread:
I’m not sure I get your point. You want to cleverly insult me, but can’t, so you resurrect a three year old post that is dead wrong on 90% of it’s content?

I’m flattered that you would go to such lengths for me, but you are missing the mark by a long shot.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: LAman on November 15, 2018, 05:23:41 PM
Just interested in what changes you made to better yourself. Or if you were same guy looking for a young beautiful girl? We are all looking to make ourselves a better person in some ways.
Thank you for coming back, most guys we never hear from again.

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: jone on November 15, 2018, 05:29:20 PM
Hey.

I'm willing to give this gal the benefit of the doubt.   More power to you Mr. Beard.  I can tell you that I am way out of my league with the woman I've been with for the past year and a half.  Don't know what she sees in me.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 15, 2018, 05:34:06 PM
BB I don't have any disdain for you but you should know that most girls will at some point want the guy to travel to them to meet. So if you tell a girl you are going to travel to Turkey while a joke is ok she will tire at some point if you do not meet.

If you are wealthy and have the time on your hands it's best to travel to the FSU to get the low down on it all. In general it's good fun apart from the odd difficultly here and there that you just need to ride out.

Going it alone has never bothered me at all in life and many members here it doesn't either. For many though I can understand if it does particularly first time out can be quite daunting particularly on arrival. It's a very different looking culture and there can be some culture shock even for travellers who have travelled to other places abroad. I wouldn't look down at all on people who don't wish to do it alone, it can be a safer and more reassuring option for a first timer.

I think if you have the money consider either using a decently respected marriage agency or even an AFA tour. Some members here look down in either or both but for first timers it may nor be a bad option. With a tour you'll be with a load of other guys, mostly from the US. Everything will be sorted for you, and catered for western tastes. You'll get to meet a load of women at each venue specifically held for thd tour. I don't even discount for myself in the next year or so.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 15, 2018, 05:41:13 PM
Just interested in what changes you made to better yourself. Or if you were same guy looking for a young beautiful girl? We are all looking to make ourselves a better person in some ways.
Thank you for coming back, most guys we never hear from again.

Okay, if you really want to know, shortly after that post, I was hospitalized with congestive heart failure. I almost died in the hospital multiple times. I was getting ready to submit my application for a heart transplant. The doctors gave me 3-5 years to live sans transplant.

For the first year or so, I lived every day like it was my last. I partied, bought my first non-sensible car, and slept with a ton of women.

Then, a scary thing happened... the medication and reduced stress lifestyle worked so well that my heart started recovering very rapidly without surgery.  The doctors said I may fully recover and live a normal life.  This made me take inventory of everything.  I was given a second chance to live the life I want to live and be the person I truly want to be.

There is no point to get into all the details, but the short answer is, “I have changed virtually everything about who I am”.

There were many things about myself I didn’t like and I changed those things.  Any posts you read from back then may as well have been written by a different person.

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 15, 2018, 05:51:06 PM
BB I don't have any disdain for you but you should know that most girls will at some point want the guy to travel to them to meet. So if you tell a girl you are going to travel to Turkey while a joke is ok she will tire at some point if you do not meet.

If you are wealthy and have the time on your hands it's best to travel to the FSU to get the low down on it all. In general it's good fun apart from the odd difficultly here and there that you just need to ride out.

Going it alone has never bothered me at all in life and many members here it doesn't either. For many though I can understand if it does particularly first time out can be quite daunting particularly on arrival. It's a very different looking culture and there can be some culture shock even for travellers who have travelled to other places abroad. I wouldn't look down at all on people who don't wish to do it alone, it can be a safer and more reassuring option for a first timer.

I think if you have the money consider either using a decently respected marriage agency or even an AFA tour. Some members here look down in either or both but for first timers it may nor be a bad option. With a tour you'll be with a load of other guys, mostly from the US. Everything will be sorted for you, and catered for western tastes. You'll get to meet a load of women at each venue specifically held for thd tour. I don't even discount for myself in the next year or so.

TC, I guess you missed the context of my joke to the girl. I am already planning on meeting her. I fully explained to her from the beginning that I had a VO trip planned, but decided the girl was not right for me, so I broke things off with that girl.  I told her I didn’t want to waste my ticket and I would like to fly and meet her instead .  She doesn’t feel like a second choice because I met her AFTER I ended things with the first girl.  I see this basically as the same strategy guys use when a VO trip goes bad... in my case, the VO trip went bad before I got on the plane.

Anyway, I plan on seeing the girl in two weeks. She is going to Turkey next week, so the joke was only about seeing her a week early.  I probably shouldn’t have done it, but it was nice to see her reaction... she was excited and not freaked out by the idea.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: LAman on November 15, 2018, 05:55:04 PM
Okay, if you really want to know, shortly after that post, I was hospitalized with congestive heart failure. I almost died in the hospital multiple times. I was getting ready to submit my application for a heart transplant. The doctors gave me 3-5 years to live sans transplant.

For the first year or so, I lived every day like it was my last. I partied, bought my first non-sensible car, and slept with a ton of women.

Then, a scary thing happened... the medication and reduced stress lifestyle worked so well that my heart started recovering very rapidly without surgery.  The doctors said I may fully recover and live a normal life.  This made me take inventory of everything.  I was given a second chance to live the life I want to live and be the person I truly want to be.

There is no point to get into all the details, but the short answer is, “I have changed virtually everything about who I am”.

There were many things about myself I didn’t like and I changed those things.  Any posts you read from back then may as well have been written by a different person.


Well, good for you. Must have been terrible for your kids. As we age, health becomes a major issue. Good luck!!


Please don't take anything I say as personal, I always felt like a learned the most from my detractors. I am not big on the pats on the back....go get um kid!!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: LAman on November 15, 2018, 05:56:25 PM
Hey.

I'm willing to give this gal the benefit of the doubt.   More power to you Mr. Beard.  I can tell you that I am way out of my league with the woman I've been with for the past year and a half.  Don't know what she sees in me.

Did you ever wonder if she thought...… what does he see in me??? ))
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 15, 2018, 06:09:00 PM

Well, good for you. Must have been terrible for your kids. As we age, health becomes a major issue. Good luck!!


Please don't take anything I say as personal, I always felt like a learned the most from my detractors. I am not big on the pats on the back....go get um kid!!

Thanks,

It was extremely difficult. I am all my kids have really... their moms are not very involved in their lives.  They would like to have a stepmom who is not abusive.  They don’t expect a lot... just someone who will be nice to them.

I actually listen to my detractors (as much as possible). A very limited few people like to throw insults and offer nothing constructive... I ignore them.

Keep the constructive criticism flowing... it helps me and also all the noobs out there who are afraid to post questions in fear of being attacked.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on November 15, 2018, 06:40:10 PM
I’m sure if I get engaged, these same board members will say She is using me.  If I am happily married for ten years, they will say I am lying...


When I wrote about my search, it got hostile. I said the girl was family oriented and described her behavior and some thought she was going to use me. I got married to her and some said my marriage didn't exist. Next month I'll be 7 years married and some, behind PMs, tell each other my marriage is going to fail. I first communicated with my wife 9 years ago and they are still trying to convince themselves they are right after all this time.

What I've come to realize there are some idiots that see the world differently than I. My version of a good girl is a bad girl to them and my version of a bad girl is a good girl to them so they'd never choose the kind of women I'd choose. I've concluded they'll never have the same success I'm having in relationships, business, and in life. So if you're wise, learned from past mistakes, a good judge in the people you're dealing with, you'll be fine.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 15, 2018, 08:11:09 PM
"Mr Beard, I found your first thread here from 3 years ago under introductions."

oh no!
the Beard has been "busted"!!!!
and shown to all the world for what he REALLY is....
a Face Fungus Desperado

poor UW, they have no idea....
they will about 5 min after first meeting


good work LAman
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 15, 2018, 09:13:34 PM
When I wrote about my search, it got hostile. I said the girl was family oriented and described her behavior and some thought she was going to use me. I got married to her and some said my marriage didn't exist. Next month I'll be 7 years married and some, behind PMs, tell each other my marriage is going to fail. I first communicated with my wife 9 years ago and they are still trying to convince themselves they are right after all this time.

What I've come to realize there are some idiots that see the world differently than I. My version of a good girl is a bad girl to them and my version of a bad girl is a good girl to them so they'd never choose the kind of women I'd choose. I've concluded they'll never have the same success I'm having in relationships, business, and in life. So if you're wise, learned from past mistakes, a good judge in the people you're dealing with, you'll be fine.
Thanks for the warning! I expect there may be at least one pathetic loser who will troll me for years to come. I feel sorry for people that can’t manage their own miserable lives so they spread their gloom and hate in the only place they feel they have any control or power... on an anonymous forum.

There are a lot of good people on here, and as the old adage goes... eat the watermelon, spit out the seeds.  I can’t imagine being so pathetic that I would go on a forum designed to help people in the FSU marriage process and try to discourage, belittle and torment them.  To each his own, I guess...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 15, 2018, 09:30:55 PM
“I feel sorry for people that can’t manage their own miserable lives so they spread their gloom and hate in the only place they feel they have any control or power... on an anonymous forum.”


don’t feel sorry for ME Beard, save your pity for the poor UW you may or may not meet
and for yourself

nor is there “gloom or hate from me"
just RIDICULE...
for the simple reason that YOU ARE RIDICULOUS

and you’re SO EMOTIONALLY FRAGILE for such a big TOUGH dude....
so I’m thinking, you’re not REALLY a big tough dude at all
in fact, most of your self description
just sounds like BS

and YOU calling someone else’s life miserable, is PRICELESS!!!

do go on....
I love your style of ironic comedy, I’m a HUGE fan

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: JayH on November 15, 2018, 09:42:29 PM
Been there, done that. 


:tmi:? ;D
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 15, 2018, 10:04:17 PM
Okay, my trip is fast approaching and I’m trying to get a handle on the logistical aspects of some things before I go.  Any help would be appreciated.

I’m still undecided about whether or not I should rent a car.  I haven’t picked out an apartment, but it will probably be close to the city center (where the girl I am visiting lives).  This will be a VO trip if all goes well.  Any opinions on if people think I will really need a car?  She doesn’t drive.  If I get a car, is the parking situation difficult most places?

From what I have read, most places take credit cards.  I’m not planing on being extavigant with this girl.  Should $500 cash be enough?  Does it matter if I bring $20’s or $100’s as far as exchanging goes?

If I don’t rent car and I exchange money away from the airport, does that mean Uber is my best bet for transportation from the airport?

Also, people say don’t get a SIM card at the airport. How am I supposed to get a ride without a sim and without Ukrainian money?

What kind of gift (if anything) is appropriate when meeting a girl I have only been talking to for a few weeks?  I don’t want to be rude, but I don’t want to be over the top either.

In the US, I usually greet a date I have never met before with a hug, and sometimes a kiss on the cheek.  Is this an appropriate greeting in Ukraine?

What kind of dress style is most appropriate? Chinos or khakis with a button down shirt?  Jeans?  Should I bring a suit if we go somewhere nice?

That’s all for now.  Thanks in advance everyone!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Davo2 on November 15, 2018, 10:09:51 PM


From what I have read, most places take credit cards.  I’m not planing on being extavigant with this girl.  Should $500 cash be enough?  Does it matter if I bring $20’s or $100’s as far as exchanging goes?

If I don’t rent car and I exchange money away from the airport, does that mean Uber is my best bet for transportation from the airport?

Also, people say don’t get a SIM card at the airport. How am I supposed to get a ride without a sim and without Ukrainian money?

What kind of gift (if anything) is appropriate when meeting a girl I have only been talking to for a few weeks?  I don’t want to be rude, but I don’t want to be over the top either.

In the US, I usually greet a date I have never met before with a hug, and sometimes a kiss on the cheek.  Is this an appropriate greeting in Ukraine?

What kind of dress style is most appropriate? Chinos or khakis with a button down shirt?  Jeans?  Should I bring a suit if we go somewhere nice?

That’s all for now.  Thanks in advance everyone!

+ one for this advice.... First trip is fast approaching
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: JayH on November 15, 2018, 10:50:01 PM
Okay, my trip is fast approaching and I’m trying to get a handle on the logistical aspects of some things before I go.  Any help would be appreciated.

I’m still undecided about whether or not I should rent a car.  I haven’t picked out an apartment, but it will probably be close to the city center (where the girl I am visiting lives).  This will be a VO trip if all goes well.  Any opinions on if people think I will really need a car?  She doesn’t drive.  If I get a car, is the parking situation difficult most places?

From what I have read, most places take credit cards.  I’m not planing on being extavigant with this girl.  Should $500 cash be enough?  Does it matter if I bring $20’s or $100’s as far as exchanging goes?

If I don’t rent car and I exchange money away from the airport, does that mean Uber is my best bet for transportation from the airport?

Also, people say don’t get a SIM card at the airport. How am I supposed to get a ride without a sim and without Ukrainian money?

What kind of gift (if anything) is appropriate when meeting a girl I have only been talking to for a few weeks?  I don’t want to be rude, but I don’t want to be over the top either.

In the US, I usually greet a date I have never met before with a hug, and sometimes a kiss on the cheek.  Is this an appropriate greeting in Ukraine?

What kind of dress style is most appropriate? Chinos or khakis with a button down shirt?  Jeans?  Should I bring a suit if we go somewhere nice?

That’s all for now.  Thanks in advance everyone!

You are going to Kyiv -- correct? Staying in Kyiv?
Presuming that is the case-
Unless a very competent capable driver -- do not do car.
If staying in centre --car can be a liability if you do not know where you are staying  .

Who says "do not get a sim at airport"?   The exact opposite is my strongest advice,
Turn left as you enter Ukraine-- and several companies are alongside each other  -- go see  Lifecell  --  English no problem.
Get sim  -- pay for wifi and calls sms -- say  put $ 10  ish ( UAH250-300 -that is plenty -- and/or ask your girl what company she uses and use that( freecall/sms to same provider.
Getting that organised IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO DO ON ARRIVAL>

Gift -- something very very modest and generalised -- you can easily buy things anywhere later.
Greeting-- hold hand out and move to kiss on cheek-- read the body language on any bigger hug-- show respect.
On  cash --   take crisp $100   and change  that-- do not bother with smaller notes. $500 in cash is good --if you are able to draw more via ATM  -- make sure your bank is aware of what you are doing.
Credit cards  ( Visa & mastercard) have wide acceptance but never assume they will be accepted or that machine is working on any given day-- so always have cash just in case.
$USD can be exchanged or used anywhere -- given the smallish amounts I would use UAH to pay as it saves getting yourself confused or putting any pressure on yourself. You can get a lot more on the street to exchange Euros or USD -- but !!Generally speaking -- separate money and only expose to about what you need at any time publicly-there is no point in making yourself a potential target !

You can exchange cash at airport --there is an ATM opposite the phone people-- to the left of Car Hire people.The exchange rate  may not be the best( I still think ok) but you need money immediately--I think to pay for sim and credit you will need actual cash.

Clothes -- there is a thread somewhere -- forget a suit-- forget US country club jacket style( if that is you !!!!) Smart casual -- it is going to be cold outside ( It has been snowing the last few days and more forecast) . Dress jeans are ok-- that means tailored not daggy baggy ! Plain coloured shirts-- not loud check.

I cannot comment on Uber -never used them.  I have my own driver I call if needed -- but I usually drive myself -- note- that is unusual .Personally-- I do not see what is so hard about haggling with taxi driver !  It is about 40kms  to downtown so paying a reasonable amount to take you to a precise location is not such a bad deal   max UAH400 including tip !
Write the address of where you want to go very clearly on a piece of paper and use that to show potential drivers - haggle-tell them you will catch the bus ( details somewhere on net  & here on forum)
Do not worry about being understood --it is not that hard for anyone with a little common sense.( that would not be Trenchcoat or anything whatsover he writes)
Get Google translate   working on your phone-it can be really useful.

Maybe check this out?http://taxi-borispol.com/
from the site --= TAXI FROM AIRPORT BORISPOL TO KIEV - €20 OR $23 (STANDARD CAR FOR 1-3 PAX)
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: jone on November 15, 2018, 11:09:21 PM
+ one for this advice.... First trip is fast approaching

Okay, first of all:

If you are taking $100 bills, make sure they are of the new variety.   In Russia, I know, they will no longer exchange the older designs. 

Gifts:   I'm from Los Angeles.  Typically I will take a Lakers or Dodgers (button down / nice) shirt and some Sees Candy.  My woman still wears the nice Dodgers shirt I gave her.    And don't just take it for her.  If you are taking candy, make sure you have a couple of extra boxes.  These can be given out upon meeting the parents/extended family/her close friends.   They can also be given out as gifts for those who give you exceptional service.   Oh, and they can also be given out to your 'Plan B' woman, for when it doesn't work out with Plan A.

If your woman is serious, she will likely have a present for you as well.   I was impressed with her desire to meet you at the airport.   That is a classy move.

I never worried about getting Uber in Ukraine.   I figure that the first trip I pay between $25 and $35 for a trip to my Hotel.   And I usually stay on the farther side of the center of the city, near the Opera House.

Remember when getting a SIM card to get the kind that your (favorite) woman uses.   There are multiple carriers there and it costs money to call those numbers not on your network.  Both for you and for her.

In November, you are certainly going to need cold weather gear.   My suggestion is to wear a nice button down shirt with NON-jeans pants and, more importantly, COMFORTABLE shoes.   (Have made that mistake!)  You will be doing more walking than you can imagine.

The only time I have ever worn a suit in Eastern Europe is when I was meeting with Business Contacts or Dignitaries.  I have never worn a suit on a date with an FSU Woman.

You can choose whether or not to buy your woman additional gifts.   But I always take $1000 in cash.   You never know when you will need to get out of a sticky situation.  As you know, you can always get cash out of an ATM.

Good luck.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on November 15, 2018, 11:44:46 PM


1/ *I* say do not buy a sim at the airport - they are often not the best deal - you can buy one in the dedicated network shops in the centre .. may be with the lady you've come to meet - as you'll surely have wifi at the airport at your apartment / hotel and the airport  - SSID "Free Borispil WI-FI"  - free for 30 mins

2/  If you know Uber then why not use them? - it works the same- but you'll need to meet the driver in the car park ( lot) on the ground level - exit right from arrivals - approx 50 m = cost 300- 350 UAH

If you want to go really native go via SKYBus  http://skybus.kiev.ua/en/  (http://skybus.kiev.ua/en/) - c. 80 UAH .. You can buy your ticket online

3/ SC meets me at the airport and I nearly always wear a suit - she loves it as you've made an effort to impress.



Dare to be different and enjoy !


 





Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: JayH on November 15, 2018, 11:56:28 PM

1/ *I* say do not buy a sim at the airport - they are often not the best deal - you can buy one in the dedicated network shops in the centre .. may be with the lady you've come to meet - as you'll surely have wifi at the airport at your apartment / hotel and the airport  - SSID "Free Borispil WI-FI"  - free for 30 mins

2/  If you know Uber then why not use them? - it works the same- but you'll need to meet the driver in the car park ( lot) on the ground level - exit right from arrivals - approx 50 m = cost 300- 350 UAH

If you want to go really native go via SKYBus  http://skybus.kiev.ua/en/  (http://skybus.kiev.ua/en/) - c. 80 UAH .. You can buy your ticket online

3/ SC meets me at the airport and I nearly always wear a suit - she loves it as you've made an effort to impress.



Dare to be different and enjoy !
   Re sim - Airport is near enough same price -- it is not much regardless and convenience way over rides cost ! :)

  A suit will make you look like a complete tool !! ( which Moby is !!)
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on November 16, 2018, 12:06:51 AM
Okay, my trip is fast approaching and I’m trying to get a handle on the logistical aspects of some things before I go.  Any help would be appreciated.

I’m still undecided about whether or not I should rent a car.  I haven’t picked out an apartment, but it will probably be close to the city center (where the girl I am visiting lives).  This will be a VO trip if all goes well.  Any opinions on if people think I will really need a car?  She doesn’t drive.  If I get a car, is the parking situation difficult most places?

From what I have read, most places take credit cards.  I’m not planing on being extavigant with this girl.  Should $500 cash be enough?  Does it matter if I bring $20’s or $100’s as far as exchanging goes?

If I don’t rent car and I exchange money away from the airport, does that mean Uber is my best bet for transportation from the airport?

Also, people say don’t get a SIM card at the airport. How am I supposed to get a ride without a sim and without Ukrainian money?

What kind of gift (if anything) is appropriate when meeting a girl I have only been talking to for a few weeks?  I don’t want to be rude, but I don’t want to be over the top either.

In the US, I usually greet a date I have never met before with a hug, and sometimes a kiss on the cheek.  Is this an appropriate greeting in Ukraine?

What kind of dress style is most appropriate? Chinos or khakis with a button down shirt?  Jeans?  Should I bring a suit if we go somewhere nice?

That’s all for now.  Thanks in advance everyone!

Don't drive. Enjoy sightseeing and the girl without learning the road.

Make sure the bills you bring are newer, not off center, marked up or written on. They can get rejected or you'll get less of an exchange rate.

Make sure ALL gifts are made in the country or state you live in. That matters. A scenic book of the state you live in is a good choice. See's truffles is a good choice in candy. The girls always liked it. You don't have to go over the top but it has to be memorable for her and she'll know you put thought into it.

Definitely a hug and kiss on cheek the first time you meet. When walking down the street, offer her your arm. If she likes you, she'll take it.

Dress nice. European clothing and shoes are more appealing than the American look. You don't need a suit but you can still look sharp in other clothing. No tennis shoes, tee shirts or ball caps.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: LAman on November 16, 2018, 01:38:12 AM

1/ *I* say do not buy a sim at the airport - they are often not the best deal - you can buy one in the dedicated network shops in the centre .. may be with the lady you've come to meet - as you'll surely have wifi at the airport at your apartment / hotel and the airport  - SSID "Free Borispil WI-FI"  - free for 30 mins

2/  If you know Uber then why not use them? - it works the same- but you'll need to meet the driver in the car park ( lot) on the ground level - exit right from arrivals - approx 50 m = cost 300- 350 UAH

If you want to go really native go via SKYBus  http://skybus.kiev.ua/en/  (http://skybus.kiev.ua/en/) - c. 80 UAH .. You can buy your ticket online

3/ SC meets me at the airport and I nearly always wear a suit - she loves it as you've made an effort to impress.



Dare to be different and enjoy !


Some corrections:


--Free wi fi at airport is not the greatest. Doesn't work when you go outside looking for uber car.


--- Uber driver meets only on second level, departures area. On the right 30 meters. Where did you get info about arrivals area!!


--- Skybus is not 80 uah, it is 100 uah now...….. unless OP gets off at Kharkivskaya metro which would be if one knows metro system.


If me, get sim at airport, several booths near exchange stations arrivals hall. Then you can call or get a call if needed.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: SteveInBoston on November 16, 2018, 01:40:29 AM
For what it's worth, I arrived at KBP on Tuesday, 13-Nov-18.  My advice:

1.  Get a SIM card at the airport.  After you exit customs, turn left.  Along the wall on the left are 3 mobile carrier kiosks:  Kyivstar, Vodafone and Lifecell.  Pick the one your lady friend uses.  Sim card with unlimited data plan for 1 month was 145 UAH.

2.  Near the mobile carrier kiosks are 2 currency exchange booths - do not use.  Their rates are horrible.  Walk past them to the end.  Just before the police station are 2 branches of Ukraine banks.  I used the Ukrisbbank to exchange $200 - the rate was 27.5.   In the city I could have gotten 28.05 at one of the independent currency exchangers, but I would have had to search them out among ones with worse rates (the range was from 26.90 to 28.05).

2a.  Bring crisp notes.  No tears or marks.  Some money exchangers use counting machines and those are extremely finicky - they will reject new notes with a couple of wrinkles.  I bring $1000 for each week I plan to visit, but $500 for 1 week should be fine as long as you have informed your bank of your travel plans to use your ATM card there. 

3.   Use bank ATM machines.  Independent machines use something called dynamic currency conversion, which is bad (you can read about online).  Also, unlike in the Eurozone, where the exchange rate is set by an aggregate of USD to Euro for that day (bank rate), each bank will have their own exchange rate that is applied for the ATM withdrawal.  You will see the rate for that day posted at the bank.  I used an ATM yesterday in Kharkiv at OTP Bank - 27.70 rate. 

3a.  Some banks have withdrawal limits.  I used Sversbank once and the limit was 4000 UAH.  OTP Bank and PrivatBank have higher limits - I think 20,000 UAH.  I was able to withdraw 10,000 from OTP (my daily limit on my card is $500 - about 13,500 UAH).

4.  Use Uber or Uklon.  Uklon is a Ukrainian app - rates are better, but the cars can be worse.  Uber pick up point is outside the DEPARTURES level, not arrivals.  I found out the hard way - I walked outside, used Uber, had to go back inside through security (get luggage scanned, remove laptop to be scanned separately, go through the metal detector, etc), then used the escalator to go up to the departures level and exit from there to meet the car.

4a.  Uber rate from KBP to Kyiv Pasazhyrsky train station was 379 UAH and 407 UAH for basic Uber.  I missed the car for the first rate because of the delay as I navigated back to the terminal and to the departures level.  Expect to pay 350-400 UAH for the trip to the city center.  Or pay more for Uber Select or Uber X (not worth it).

5.  Highly recommend against renting a car.  If you plan to go somewhere else, get a rental on the day you leave and just walk or use Uber while in Kyiv.  I have heard the metro is nice, but I never used it.

6.  Use Airbnb for apartment rentals.  Use Booking.com for hotels.  Booking also has apartments, but those usually require cash deposits via paypal/moneygram/western union and full payment with cash.  Airbnb rental rates tend to be a bit higher, but the apartments are more dependable (be more accurately described) and payment is so much simpler.

7.  Dress is casual stylish.  No t-shirts, baggy pants, etc.  Business casual also works, if it's smart.  No suits, but a sports jacket works.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GQBlues on November 16, 2018, 06:10:55 AM
BB-

Good luck & enjoy your trip. You have sound advice to address your query, likely far more than you bargained for. LMAO. For some reason ‘advice’ around here had become some sort of a sport.

Do without the suit, IMO. You’re not going to a funeral.

It’s winter, pick up a small bottle neutrogena’s sesame bath oil. Trust me, you’ll be glad you did.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 16, 2018, 06:53:11 AM
Thanks,

It was extremely difficult. I am all my kids have really... their moms are not very involved in their lives.  They would like to have a stepmom who is not abusive.  They don’t expect a lot... just someone who will be nice to them.

I actually listen to my detractors (as much as possible). A very limited few people like to throw insults and offer nothing constructive... I ignore them.

Keep the constructive criticism flowing... it helps me and also all the noobs out there who are afraid to post questions in fear of being attacked.

FSUW, in general, are not great with stepchildren, at least, not stepchldren who aren't grown and on their own.  In most cases, this will be exacerbated if that woman has her own child.  This is a cultural attitude.  So, if your children are under 18, I would not recommend seeking an FSUW.

Many men here had their marriages to FSUW break up because of children, and none of those men had primary custody of their children.  The only one I can think of who made it work was Vaughn, and he posted, years ago, that it was a very difficult process (plus, he did not have primary custody). 


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 16, 2018, 07:37:07 AM
FSUW, in general, are not great with stepchildren, at least, not stepchldren who aren't grown and on their own.  In most cases, this will be exacerbated if that woman has her own child.  This is a cultural attitude.  So, if your children are under 18, I would not recommend seeking an FSUW.



Personally I was not. But my stepchildren  have mom with a complex of victim.. so kids always came to stay with us with what seemed like a pre-programming to resist everything I said. I am thinking if  there is no mom to influence the situation, things might go better. 
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 16, 2018, 07:42:40 AM
Perhaps.  But from what I have seen, not likely.  I can think of two men I know, both diaspora Ukrainians (and therefore, not really "Ukrainian" in the eyes of FSU Ukrainians) whose marriages to UW fell apart because of children.  In one case, the man was a widower, in the other, his wife hit the road, no contact with her children.  One of the women brought her son into the marriage, the other did not have children.

I don't think the conflict is usually with the wife, it is in demanding certain behaviours of the children which don't always align with how children here are raised differently, although in one case, the UW would never have accepted any man's children.  The only man I can think of who had no issues with this is Manny.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: John Gaunt on November 16, 2018, 08:32:34 AM
Perhaps.  But from what I have seen, not likely.  I can think of two men I know, both diaspora Ukrainians (and therefore, not really "Ukrainian" in the eyes of FSU Ukrainians) whose marriages to UW fell apart because of children.  In one case, the man was a widower, in the other, his wife hit the road, no contact with her children.  One of the woman brought her son into the marriage, the other did not have children.


I don't think the conflict is usually with the wife, it is in demanding certain behaviours of the children which don't always align with how children here are raised differently, although in one case, the UW would never have accepted any man's children.  The only man I can think of who had no issues with this is Manny.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
You can include me as well. 😃
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 16, 2018, 08:34:30 AM
When I wrote about my search, it got hostile. I said the girl was family oriented and described her behavior and some thought she was going to use me. I got married to her and some said my marriage didn't exist. Next month I'll be 7 years married and some, behind PMs, tell each other my marriage is going to fail. I first communicated with my wife 9 years ago and they are still trying to convince themselves they are right after all this time.



who cares, as long as you are married and being happy. I dont think anybody believed that my arrogant arse would stay married for long, but here we are, celebrating our 17th anniversary on Monday.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 16, 2018, 08:48:41 AM
FSUW, in general, are not great with stepchildren, at least, not stepchldren who aren't grown and on their own.  In most cases, this will be exacerbated if that woman has her own child.  This is a cultural attitude.  So, if your children are under 18, I would not recommend seeking an FSUW.

Many men here had their marriages to FSUW break up because of children, and none of those men had primary custody of their children.  The only one I can think of who made it work was Vaughn, and he posted, years ago, that it was a very difficult process (plus, he did not have primary custody). 


This post was composed without the aid of google.

This is a subject I do not take lightly, which is why I have only ever talked to one woman with a child.  I have heard that boys are even worse than girls.  My second marriage was a blended family and raising children was a part of much conflict.  Back then, I did not have a realistic perspective on blended families of any kind.  I thought that we would be like the Brady Bunch and be a normal family.  It doesn’t work that way.  You have issues with other parents on the periphery, jealous, fighting, special treatment, etc.  For this to work, we would need a pragmatic approach to address these issues before the marriage started.

Fortunately, my older kids will almost be out of the house by the time the marriage would be compete and they pretty much do their own thing most of the time anyway. My youngest doesn’t really get along with the others most of the time, but she keeps to herself and just minds her own business to avoid conflict.

I would take many precautionary measures before taking the leap including spending a couple months in Ukraine to see how the kids interact on a longer term basis.  I know the stakes are high, but there also some potential benefits to such a marriage.  I don’t expect to be this kid’s dad and I don’t expect her to become my kids’ mom, but it would be nice to have a positive female role model in my daughter’s lives.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 16, 2018, 08:54:27 AM
Perhaps.  But from what I have seen, not likely.  I can think of two men I know, both diaspora Ukrainians (and therefore, not really "Ukrainian" in the eyes of FSU Ukrainians) whose marriages to UW fell apart because of children.  In one case, the man was a widower, in the other, his wife hit the road, no contact with her children.  One of the woman brought her son into the marriage, the other did not have children.


TRue and also how come I can not slap a child on his backside? And even 5 year olds threaten you with  child services?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 16, 2018, 08:57:45 AM
This is a subject I do not take lightly, which is why I have only ever talked to one woman with a child.


I only talked to men who had children, because I did not want  my child around a guy who did not not know what parenthood was. ANd it worked out great. My child loves Mr. Pedro and his relationship with  him is better than the one with his own dad.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 16, 2018, 09:21:14 AM

TRue and also how come I can not slap a child on his backside? And even 5 year olds threaten you with  child services?


The only time my better half and I ever had conflict was around our children, and they are our common biological children. 


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 16, 2018, 09:22:38 AM
I would take many precautionary measures before taking the leap including spending a couple months in Ukraine to see how the kids interact on a longer term basis.  I know the stakes are high, but there also some potential benefits to such a marriage.  I don’t expect to be this kid’s dad and I don’t expect her to become my kids’ mom, but it would be nice to have a positive female role model in my daughter’s lives.


Realistically, a few months in Ukraine will probably make no difference. 


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on November 16, 2018, 09:59:49 AM
Step children are a leading cause of divorce in second marriages.

And, as Boe hints, children may even be a leading cause of divorce in first marriages.

I met and interacted with children of many of the FSUW that I spent time with.
Got along fine with them; but they were all teenagers.
And we didn't live together 24/7, which would have been a completely different dynamic.

In general, I am pretty sure that any long term relationship for me with ANY woman would be doomed by step children . . . if said step children were nearby.  And the same can be said for in-laws.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on November 16, 2018, 11:46:56 AM
but here we are, celebrating our 17th anniversary on Monday.

Miracles never cease  :D

Congratulations!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 16, 2018, 12:47:16 PM
I’m not sure if everyone caught this, but I had a failed marriage with step children involved.  I would say that child issues were the root of at least 80% of the problems.  I don’t need to be educated on this subject. I am painfully aware of the negative aspects of this situation. About half the girls I have dated in recent years have had children.  Often, we had great chemistry, but I realized the child dynamic was not going to work out (even before meeting the kids).  I ended it before things got too serious.  In the rare case I would consider a UW with kids, I will apply even more scrutiny to the issue.

On a separate note, if I bring a girl back to my apartment and she does not spend the night, is it normal procedure to call a cab and pay the driver directly... or do I give her the money to pay at the end of her trip?  I have a car here, so I don’t know taxi dating etiquette...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Hammer2722 on November 16, 2018, 01:41:05 PM
You should always pay for her taxi. Let her deal with the taxi driver and give her the money but don't do it out in public.....
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on November 16, 2018, 02:10:55 PM
You can pay using your UBER account ?   Watch her get safe home and wish her 'good night '?

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 16, 2018, 03:45:41 PM
You can pay using your UBER account ?   Watch her get safe home and wish her 'good night '?
When you say “watch her get safe home” are you saying I should ride with her all the way home instead of just putting her in the car?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: SteveInBoston on November 16, 2018, 04:05:20 PM
Dude.  Uber.  The app tracks the progress of the ride to the destination.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 16, 2018, 04:51:36 PM
mr beard claims to have an IQ of 147, a Harvard MBA and is a pharmaceutical executive
so I'd think a person of that intellectual caliber would understand Uber  :)
even though he sounds a LOT like a blue collar guy....
he couldn't possibly be, not with those kind of credentials
unless.....
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on November 16, 2018, 05:45:10 PM
I would say that child issues were the root of at least 80% of the problems.


I'd say the problems are with the adults, not the kids. I've got kids from another marriage and it's not going to end my marriage.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on November 16, 2018, 10:31:54 PM
Dude.  Uber.  The app tracks the progress of the ride to the destination.

Thanks for explaining

Offering to accompany  her home, might be good on a subsequent date
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 16, 2018, 10:38:51 PM
I'd say the problems are with the adults, not the kids. I've got kids from another marriage and it's not going to end my marriage.
Allow me to clarify. I am not blaming the children.  I am saying that child related issues were a source of problems.  For instance, her child would hit my child. Her first reaction was to interrogate my child to find out what he said to provoke her child into violence.  She would tell her child that I am not his real father, so he didn’t have to do what I say.  When my children got in trouble, she would tell them they are evil and have the devil living in their heart.

After the divorce, the kids are still good friends and my ex-stepson (now 14) still calls me daddy.  The problem was with co-parenting in a blended family.  If we didn’t have kids, these issues would not have existed.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on November 17, 2018, 11:38:35 AM
In the rare case I would consider a UW with kids, I will apply even more scrutiny to the issue.

Most of us men have been married before and it didn't work out or we wouldn't be here.

This is an opportunity for the men NOT TO F#CK IT UP the second time.

One thing that amazes me to know end is that two adults contemplating marriage don't
have 81,002 conversations about children, child raising, discipline, punishment, education,
expectations, boys vs girls, where will they sleep, what if they don't eat vegetables, sleepovers,
teenage sex, bed wetting, discipline in public and private, pets, responsibilities around the house,
religion, going to church, circumcision, how they will affect sex, what we wear around the house,
what they wear in public, makeup, what to do if they walk into the room 2 seconds before climax,
(because they will) etc, etc, etc, etc. 

The idiots who think they will work it out as they go along are idiots. Leaving everything to chance
in a situation where a woman is new to your country, your culture, your language and you, and
stressed out in ways you can't possibly understand, AND doing it totally on the fly, hoping love
conquers all is begging for problems. 

The more things you sort out (or try to sort out) the more familiar you are with the thought
process of each other and having conversations in advance about similar situations won't solve
all your future problems (not even close) but it greatly advances your understanding of each
other and understanding each will help you tackle new problems together rather, than opposed
to each other.

That's my two kopecks

 
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: John Gaunt on November 17, 2018, 12:07:48 PM
Most of us men have been married before and it didn't work out or we wouldn't be here.

This is an opportunity for the men NOT TO F#CK IT UP the second time.

One thing that amazes me to know end is that two adults contemplating marriage don't
have 81,002 conversations about children, child raising, discipline, punishment, education,
expectations, boys vs girls, where will they sleep, what if they don't eat vegetables, sleepovers,
teenage sex, bed wetting, discipline in public and private, pets, responsibilities around the house,
religion, going to church, circumcision, how they will affect sex, what we wear around the house,
what they wear in public, makeup, what to do if they walk into the room 2 seconds before climax,
(because they will) etc, etc, etc, etc. 

The idiots who think they will work it out as they go along are idiots. Leaving everything to chance
in a situation where a woman is new to your country, your culture, your language and you, and
stressed out in ways you can't possibly understand, AND doing it totally on the fly, hoping love
conquers all is begging for problems. 

The more things you sort out (or try to sort out) the more familiar you are with the thought
process of each other and having conversations in advance about similar situations won't solve
all your future problems (not even close) but it greatly advances your understanding of each
other and understanding each will help you tackle new problems together rather, than opposed
to each other.

That's my two kopecks
Absolute Gold 2T.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 17, 2018, 12:12:21 PM
I disagree with you Bill, unless both parties already have children.


Most people without children have all sorts of ideas on what they will do, but it rarely works out that way.  I would hazard a guess brownbear's second wife would never had stated "I will blame your child in every argument he has with my child.  I will treat him as less than my own child."


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: John Gaunt on November 17, 2018, 12:16:50 PM
I disagree with you Bill, unless both parties already have children.


Most people without children have all sorts of ideas on what they will do, but it rarely works out that way.  I would hazard a guess brownbear's second wife would never had stated "I will blame your child in every argument he has with my child.  I will treat him as less than my own child."


This post was composed without the aid of google.
I don’t think that was what Bill was getting at. It was more that having a deep discussion on all kinds of issues, children being one, would give an insight into a prospective partners thought processes and could flag areas of concern.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 17, 2018, 01:19:11 PM
I'd say the problems are with the adults, not the kids. I've got kids from another marriage and it's not going to end my marriage.


Mr. Pedro says that 75% of his problems in his previous marriage were kids.  ANd he was married to their mom. They had different approach to parenting. Our approach was somewhat different too, but mostly in details rather than core things.  And  we both were and are very determined to make things work. So it does not matter - with or without kids - if you are determined to make things work, they will.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 17, 2018, 04:16:26 PM
And  we both were and are very determined to make things work. So it does not matter - with or without kids - if you are determined to make things work, they will.

I really have to agree with Donna on here.  It comes down to a deeper commitment to the marriage.

Before my second marriage began, I was extremely determined to make this next marriage work, no matter what. We had lengthy discussions and made agreement on everything from child raising, to finances to household responsibilities.  We took notes and had everything on paper.  We also went to counseling, did psychological testing, went to seminars, read books, etc.

Underlying all of that was a mutual agreement that we would work through any problem, no matter how difficult.  Divorce was not an option.

No matter how much you discuss things, you have no idea what issues will come up raising three ten year olds and a six year old.  You just have to trust in your mutual commitment to work it out.

Several years into the marriage, my wife said she changed her mind about things she previously agreed to.  She knew I was 100% committed to the marriage “no matter what”, so she saw that as carte blanche to do whatever she wanted, whenever she wanted.

Finally she realized getting her way all the time wasn’t enough. She didn’t want to be a mom anymore, so she walked out on all of us.

Certain things you just can’t know or predict ahead of time, no matter how much due diligence you perform.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on November 17, 2018, 08:08:49 PM
Mr. Pedro says that 75% of his problems in his previous marriage were kids.  ANd he was married to their mom. They had different approach to parenting.


Kids will be kids. They will misbehave and push their parents buttons. It's the adults that are in charge of parenting and the differences in parenting may lead to the divorce. I hate to blame the kids for something they're not in control of.

Our approach was somewhat different too, but mostly in details rather than core things.  And  we both were and are very determined to make things work. So it does not matter - with or without kids - if you are determined to make things work, they will.

Two good people make good things happen. Even when faced with bad situations or disagreements, you both are determined to find a solution and you value the institution of marriage thus nothing can break it up.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 17, 2018, 10:40:31 PM
Okay, a couple random etiquette questions.

I once heard that Eastern European women don’t  believe in hugging or kissing in the entrance area of a home (or right outside).... then I dated a Polish girl.  I would never kiss her until her apartment door was securely closed and we were also a few feet inside her home.  She finally asked why I did that.  She told me that is nonsense.... Is this true for UW?

Is it common to take shoes off when entering one’s home? 

It’s funny... where I grew up in Southern California... I only knew a few people that did this... and my friends all thought it was weird.  Now that I live in the Chicago area... everyone does it... probably has something to do with snow on everyone’s shoes...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: JayH on November 17, 2018, 11:01:34 PM
Okay, a couple random etiquette questions.

I once heard that Eastern European women don’t  believe in hugging or kissing in the entrance area of a home (or right outside).... then I dated a Polish girl.  I would never kiss her until her apartment door was securely closed and we were also a few feet inside her home.  She finally asked why I did that.  She told me that is nonsense.... Is this true for UW?

Is it common to take shoes off when entering one’s home? 

It’s funny... where I grew up in Southern California... I only knew a few people that did this... and my friends all thought it was weird.  Now that I live in the Chicago area... everyone does it... probably has something to do with snow on everyone’s shoes...

Take shoes of 100% -- virtually without exception . If in any doubt - look at host & other visitors for a lead -- even ask .

On affection-no idea  -never heard that !   be careful about trying to impose affection publically -- err on the side of caution -- follow here lead and be sensitive to surroundings.
Do not insist on visiting her home or anyone's.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 20, 2018, 09:07:23 AM
Okay, so I’m having issues with my credit card and my bank!

I used bookkng.com to reserve my apartment.  The aparment tried to get a deposit (one day rent) and it was declined.  I called my bank and discovered that I cannot make any purchase in Ukraine because it is on the “banned” list of countries.

I was going to get a prepaid Travel Visa with AAA, but transactions in Ukraine are banned with them too. 

Has anyone experienced problems like this?  What are the best solutions?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Nightwish on November 20, 2018, 11:04:11 AM
Okay, so I’m having issues with my credit card and my bank!

I used bookkng.com to reserve my apartment.  The aparment tried to get a deposit (one day rent) and it was declined.  I called my bank and discovered that I cannot make any purchase in Ukraine because it is on the “banned” list of countries.

I was going to get a prepaid Travel Visa with AAA, but transactions in Ukraine are banned with them too. 

Has anyone experienced problems like this?  What are the best solutions?

I have used prepaid mastercards without any issues. One is currently being used frequently by my MIL, we deposit every month to it and she uses it both to pay with in stores and withdraw money.
 
Two web-based I have tried and have no issues with ever ( maybe you got more options in the states. )
Skrill.com
neteller.com
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on November 20, 2018, 11:36:07 AM
Okay, so I’m having issues with my credit card and my bank!

I have this issue with online payment in Russia ... but NOT at ATMs / Terminals ..

Have you tried at an ATM or buying something in a food store ?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 20, 2018, 11:57:27 AM
I have used prepaid mastercards without any issues. One is currently being used frequently by my MIL, we deposit every month to it and she uses it both to pay with in stores and withdraw money.
 
Two web-based I have tried and have no issues with ever ( maybe you got more options in the states. )
Skrill.com
neteller.com

Do these prepaid Mastercards work for topping up on Ukrainian Mobile Phone sites?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 20, 2018, 12:06:13 PM
Thanks for the tips... I worked it out with my bank and they made an exception for me regarding their “no Ukraine” policy.  It’s kind of funny... they asked more invasive “why are you going to Ukraine?” questions than the UW ask.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 20, 2018, 12:07:26 PM
Okay, so I’m having issues with my credit card and my bank!

I used bookkng.com to reserve my apartment.  The aparment tried to get a deposit (one day rent) and it was declined.  I called my bank and discovered that I cannot make any purchase in Ukraine because it is on the “banned” list of countries.

I was going to get a prepaid Travel Visa with AAA, but transactions in Ukraine are banned with them too. 

Has anyone experienced problems like this?  What are the best solutions?

When I used Bookings.com this summer for an Apartment in Lviv they would only accept payment in cash - Ghrvina or Euros, Dollars, etc. I personally don't like walking around with much in the way of paper money in Ukraine as it's a pain. On card I know my money is less likely to walk off, lol.

Hotels may be different. Think the credit card problem only tends to be if your paying outside Ukraine. Many hotels can take card payment while you are there so no problem, apartment owners don't tend to have that facility.

Apartments can also be a pain trying to get to when there, many aren't run as well/organised as hotels. So a hotel may be an easier fix at least for the first day or two off arrival so you get your bearings around the place.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: SteveInBoston on November 20, 2018, 01:52:43 PM
I have a Citibank Visa and another Visa and Visa Debit card with my personal bank (federal credit union, actually).  I set up travel notices with both institutions and have no trouble using any of the three in Ukraine.

I stopped using Booking.com for apartments for the reason mentioned above - most apartment owners there require payment in cash, and also a cash deposit, via paypal or western union.

I would recommend using Airbnb.  The apartments there tend to be a bit higher per night vs some of the ones available on Booking.com, but there's never any issue with payment.  Airbnb handles all the transaction, and because the credit card is charged to Airbnb out of CA, there's also no issue about foreign transactions.

Booking.com is great if you want a hotel room - much better than Hotel.com or other platforms.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on November 20, 2018, 02:35:06 PM
I don’t think that was what Bill was getting at. It was more that having a deep discussion on all kinds of issues, children being one, would give an insight into a prospective partners thought processes and could flag areas of concern.

Exactly what my point was.

Bo has a point about people who've never had kids having totally unrealistic ideas
about how to raise them. Having conversations about it would still be wise in my
opinion
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on November 20, 2018, 02:41:29 PM
Thanks for the tips... I worked it out with my bank and they made an exception for me regarding
their “no Ukraine” policy.  It’s kind of funny... they asked more invasive “why are you going to
Ukraine?” questions than the UW ask.

That's funny. My experience is the less you say the less invasive a bank will be.
1. Tourism
2. I'm a secret agent, none of your Business

I was in Kiev one time (of course I told them I was traveling) and none of my bank
cards worked and they wouldn't do anything to help me until I was back on American
soil. So I got American Express to wire me $3000.

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 20, 2018, 03:44:10 PM
When I used Bookings.com this summer for an Apartment in Lviv they would only accept payment in cash - Ghrvina or Euros, Dollars, etc. I personally don't like walking around with much in the way of paper money in Ukraine as it's a pain. On card I know my money is less likely to walk off, lol.

Hotels may be different. Think the credit card problem only tends to be if your paying outside Ukraine. Many hotels can take card payment while you are there so no problem, apartment owners don't tend to have that facility.

Apartments can also be a pain trying to get to when there, many aren't run as well/organised as hotels. So a hotel may be an easier fix at least for the first day or two off arrival so you get your bearings around the place.
Yea, it’s kind of a pain, but I think it will work out.  The apartment building I am staying in is huge.  The company I am renting from has several listings in the same building... there were several other people listing rentals in the same building.

I was still unsure about how I pay and how I coordinate everything when I get there, so the girl I’m seeing offered to call them to get a handle on how it is going to work.  I figure it must be a pretty decent apartment... it’s in the same building my girl lives in... and she’s a rich daughter of a Mafia crime boss (as has been speculated).

She’s making me feel a bit better about her trip to Turkey.  She sends me texts and pictures every few minutes.... if she is with another guy, he must be getting pretty pissed off by now.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 20, 2018, 04:14:06 PM
gosh!

I would think that a Harvard MBA would know basic personal finance procedures and that you ALWAYS notify your CC issuer before travel in a foreign country otherwise charges might be rejected

and if you think your bank made an exception "just for you" that's FUNNY
just tell them in the first place as you did

Harvard MBA?  IQ of 147?

more like High School and barely 100....


ditto about AirBnb,
great place to do business
sometimes hard to rent a desirable property long term, because of someone else booking ahead
but otherwise 5 stars
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 20, 2018, 04:35:12 PM
That's funny. My experience is the less you say the less invasive a bank will be.
1. Tourism
2. I'm a secret agent, none of your Business

I was in Kiev one time (of course I told them I was traveling) and none of my bank
cards worked and they wouldn't do anything to help me until I was back on American
soil. So I got American Express to wire me $3000.

Yea, I guess it’s the price I pay for switching from a major bank to credit unions.

With normal banks, I used to call and just give them a heads up when I am out of the country... never a problem.  My credit unions are not so user friendly.

Neither one ever had a problem in North America, or Asia (Japan, Thailand, China, Korea), but something about Ukraine gets their feathers all ruffled.  One credit union absolutely refused to let me make charges in Ukraine, but the other one made a “special exception” for me.  Strange...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Davo2 on November 20, 2018, 04:37:28 PM
gosh!

I would think that a Harvard MBA would know that it's standard operating procedure to notify your CC issuer before travel in a foreign country
otherwise charges might be rejected

My bank rejected my first attempt to pay for airfares to Russia.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GenMish on November 20, 2018, 04:51:04 PM
I think there are different credit card issues being discussed

Point of sale at the designated country will be allowable everywhere as long as you inform your CC co of your travel plans. However, if they think your card is compromised, they might shut down your card

Second, are specific websites and payees in other countries that your CC Co might not allow

Third is your CC Company assessment of your purchasing patterns, and flagging(and even denying) unusual purchases
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on November 20, 2018, 11:33:03 PM
she’s a rich daughter of a Mafia crime boss (as has been speculated).


You better speculate bringing a self addressed, postage paid body bag with you so the authorities can mail you home in case you piss off her dad.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: rwd123 on November 20, 2018, 11:49:06 PM
Re credit cards, never had an issue. I always inform the bank before I go overseas.

Re apartments, your best option is AirBnB. I would only recommend booking.com for hotels. I use a local agency but as staff don't speak English I wouldn't recommend to you - though they have better rates and provide more options.

Always take cash!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on November 21, 2018, 10:47:09 AM
My bank rejected my first attempt to pay for airfares to Russia.

Yeah, me too. I ended up using an intermediary like Kayak.com, priceline, travelocity etc.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 21, 2018, 01:52:51 PM
Yea, it’s kind of a pain, but I think it will work out.  The apartment building I am staying in is huge.  The company I am renting from has several listings in the same building... there were several other people listing rentals in the same building.

I was still unsure about how I pay and how I coordinate everything when I get there, so the girl I’m seeing offered to call them to get a handle on how it is going to work.  I figure it must be a pretty decent apartment... it’s in the same building my girl lives in... and she’s a rich daughter of a Mafia crime boss (as has been speculated).

She’s making me feel a bit better about her trip to Turkey.  She sends me texts and pictures every few minutes.... if she is with another guy, he must be getting pretty pissed off by now.

Good she is going to follow up on the situation with the apartment for you BB. The Apartment crowd can have some strange set ups. What looks like all in the same building online can actually turn out to be various apartments throughout the city with just one apartment in that building. If it is the same building and of course that could be the case then it's not too bad but either way not all Apartment owners have an office and if they do it may be in another location or not open all the time. So if she can give you the heads up on it all its all good. Though even still I would go in expecting the unexpected. Apartment conventions that are all straight forward to her may be news to you. That and she may only be so invested in looking into it for you so may not ask into all the ins & outs. Not saying it will be arduous for you many times it can be fine but also an idea to be aware that sometimes it's not always plain sailing.

What's your take BB on her potentially being part of a mafia/dirty money family BB? If this is the case and you got on with the girl where do you see yourself as fitting in if at all into the equation?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 21, 2018, 03:59:47 PM
What's your take BB on her potentially being part of a mafia/dirty money family BB? If this is the case and you got on with the girl where do you see yourself as fitting in if at all into the equation?
I guess time will tell on this.  I know she has money... at least by Ukrainian standards. A bottle of red wine exploded on her luggage on her Turkey vacation. The dry cleaning bill was $300.  This forum has made me wary of any time a girl has a problem that can be solved with money.  I asked her “what are you going to do?”  She paid the bill without batting an eye.

Her last boyfriend was some rich guy from Switzerland.  He would fly her all over Europe. She was on constant vacation for two years and he wouldn’t let her work.  I think she felt like his toy or his trophy or something. He didn’t want to get married or settle down... he just wanted to travel and party.

She said he is still kind of friends with her parents.  They really don’t want her with him.  They want her to be happy and settle down with a man with a more stable life.  The good news is that even though they don’t really like the guy, they haven’t buried him in a shallow grave or anything.

So, as long as I keep her happy and them happy... does it matter how they got their money?  I am an outsider and they would most likely never want to involve me in their affairs, even if I married their daughter.  She was married before and her ex husband had some involvement with the family business, but when she sent him packing, her parents never fitted him with a pair of cement shoes.

So, all this to say... maybe they are legit business people and maybe they are connected... but I think it’s possible to be with this girl either way without putting my life in danger (unless she has other ex boyfriends she hasn’t mentioned who sleep  with the fishes)
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: JayH on November 21, 2018, 06:22:02 PM

So, as long as I keep her happy and them happy... does it matter how they got their money?  .


Yes.

Reading all of this and earlier posts -- I am giving you somewhere from zero to less than 1% chance with this girl.

Make sure you keep updating us -that should be interesting.

As an aside --has she mentioned what type of car she drives?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on November 21, 2018, 07:26:58 PM
I think it’s possible to be with this girl either way without putting my life in danger (unless she has other ex boyfriends she hasn’t mentioned who sleep  with the fishes)

I don't think you have anything to worry about when it comes to danger. She may be looking for a family life but she may not give up a lifestyle that you can't afford. If you're a quality man, she'd be a fool to give it up if you're a few dollars short.

Reading all of this and earlier posts -- I am giving you somewhere from zero to less than 1% chance with this girl.


Most guys haven't obtained a date with the girl. BB has. I'd say his chances are greater than that. I remember people making prediction on my relationship. They predicted my wife wouldn't marry me and when she did, they predicted she will leave me after getting the green card. After she got the green card, they predicted she would leave me when she got citizenship. When she got citizenship, they predicted she will leave me after sponsoring her mother. There's a lot of a lot of relationship experts here that refuse to believe they are wrong so they continue with predictions until they are right.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 21, 2018, 09:09:06 PM
I don't think you have anything to worry about when it comes to danger. She may be looking for a family life but she may not give up a lifestyle that you can't afford. If you're a quality man, she'd be a fool to give it up if you're a few dollars short.

Most guys haven't obtained a date with the girl. BB has. I'd say his chances are greater than that. I remember people making prediction on my relationship. They predicted my wife wouldn't marry me and when she did, they predicted she will leave me after getting the green card. After she got the green card, they predicted she would leave me when she got citizenship. When she got citizenship, they predicted she will leave me after sponsoring her mother. There's a lot of a lot of relationship experts here that refuse to believe they are wrong so they continue with predictions until they are right.
You really have made me take a step back and take a look how I have proven everyone wrong so far... I plan to continue the trend.

People said as a man divorced twice with three kids, nobody will be interested in me... Wrong!
They said I couldn’t attract  a smoking hot, educated girl 15 years years younger than me... Wrong!
They said no girls will want me with a beard... Wrong!  In fact, this girl showed be pictures of her ex-boyfriend and he has a beard too.

They said the only reason a girl like that would ever talk to me is because she is using me to rescue her from a desperate situation.  Now that it’s clear she is not desperate, the prediction is she will dump me.

I made it very clear to this girl that I am not rich.  Much of my business is cyclical and I can take home anywhere from $100k - $300k a year. Volatility is the price I pay for being an entrepreneur.  Even in the good years, I don’t live a lavish lifestyle because I don’t know when a lean year will come.  I explained this to her and she fully understands.  She started a successful restaurant in her early 20’s and her ex husband buried it into the ground.  She understands how business works.

She may have been born with a silver spoon in her mouth, and be extremely beautiful, but her character is much deeper than that.  I think she likes me because I am not impressed with her money and don’t focus on her external beauty.  I care about who she is on the inside.  I don’t think she’s used to that.

She showed me her inbox on the dating site with over 500 incoming unread messages.  Out of all of the guys she talked to, she narrowed it down to a guy from London (TC?), a guy from Israel and me.  She said she lost interest in both of them and now is only talking to me.  We talk constantly... it reminds me of what Donna Said when she was first talking to Mr. Pedro... this girl doesn’t have time for another man!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on November 21, 2018, 09:15:01 PM
I care about who she is on the inside.

And you know about what's inside her how ???

How long have you been with her face to face ?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 21, 2018, 09:21:08 PM
And you know about what's inside her how ???

How long have you been with her face to face ?
Perhaps I need to be more clear.  I care about who she is, as in... I am interested in finding out who she is.  I care about the topic.  Make sense?

I don’t know much about who she is on the inside, but I CARE to find out.  Most men don’t really care to discover what is on the inside.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on November 21, 2018, 11:56:01 PM

Some guys are just trying to catch a woman. Catching a woman is actually easy. The part you need to worry about is understanding if she's worth catching. She likes you and you like her but you may not be compatible enough to live together. You may learn she wants to open another restaurant and she doesn't have a level enough head to be an owner and be successful. Lots of things to sort out. When you begin the process of figuring her out, she will notice and appreciate your interest in her and she may notice you have standards that if not met, you won't get into a relationship woman. She'll respect that.

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 22, 2018, 07:41:28 AM
Some guys are just trying to catch a woman. Catching a woman is actually easy. The part you need to worry about is understanding if she's worth catching. She likes you and you like her but you may not be compatible enough to live together. You may learn she wants to open another restaurant and she doesn't have a level enough head to be an owner and be successful. Lots of things to sort out. When you begin the process of figuring her out, she will notice and appreciate your interest in her and she may notice you have standards that if not met, you won't get into a relationship woman. She'll respect that.

Great words to think about.  Everything seems really good so far and I get the sense that she will be likely be mine for the taking if I really want her.  There are already a handful of areas of concern that I need to delve in deeply with her if this going to continue.  I won’t know the answers until we spend extensive time discussing these things, in person.

I’m not going to marry some girl just because she is beautiful and I want to prove people wrong on some forum lol.

Billy, thanks for taking the time to give some solid advice. This whole thing involves real people with lives that can be forever impacted with these decisions.  Some people think this is a game. 

I was originally hoping to find my dream girl in my first couple of trips... finding a girl who meets my “checklist”  doesn’t seem to be very difficult.  Finding the one who is truly right for me may prove to be the challenge.  Whether it’s WMVM or WOVO, certain things you still can’t shortcut.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 22, 2018, 02:33:16 PM
You really have made me take a step back and take a look how I have proven everyone wrong so far... I plan to continue the trend.

People said as a man divorced twice with three kids, nobody will be interested in me... Wrong!
They said I couldn’t attract  a smoking hot, educated girl 15 years years younger than me... Wrong!
They said no girls will want me with a beard... Wrong!  In fact, this girl showed be pictures of her ex-boyfriend and he has a beard too.

She started a successful restaurant in her early 20’s and her ex husband buried it into the ground.  She understands how business works.

She showed me her inbox on the dating site with over 500 incoming unread messages.  Out of all of the guys she talked to, she narrowed it down to a guy from London (TC?), a guy from Israel and me.  She said she lost interest in both of them and now is only talking to me.

Sorry my stubble just couldn't compete the girl has an obvious beard fetish! You should ask what happened to the beards of the other guys she dated, she may collect them ;D

I think a lot of guys myself included look out for potential warning signs on here. Not really personal to you, some girls are straight up & some devious or on their own agenda. A newbie will take a lot for granted including any explanations, I did. However over time you realise to look for the written & spoken nuances that can convey the girl's intent. I missed a fair few of these as I hadn't the experience at the time of FSU dating. However, none of the girls I met were bad girls but I think at least some of them had their own agenda, I just didn't fit with it.

It's not really possible to say what's the game here, not for me at least. She may be straight up but many UW have an agenda though sometimes somewhat benign.

I think you earn quite a lot of money, sure you may know others that dwarf your income. For Ukraine though $100-300k a year even with the odd leaner year is a fortune. You can easily dwarf  the richer Ukrainians out there on that income and there are not many of them. Apparently most of the wealth has been stripped out off Ukraine over the last few decades and the little that remains is the final remnants off it.

If she had a restaurant that was run into the ground she may not have as much wealth as you think. She make out she has a lot but might not have that much. I would proceed and go meet this girl in person as soon as you can. Spend some time with her and really get to know her. Be careful what you are giving away about yourself in the process also. Either way she sounds like a interesting personality to meet.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 22, 2018, 02:42:03 PM

Most guys haven't obtained a date with the girl. BB has. I'd say his chances are greater than that. I remember people making prediction on my relationship. They predicted my wife wouldn't marry me and when she did, they predicted she will leave me after getting the green card. After she got the green card, they predicted she would leave me when she got citizenship. When she got citizenship, they predicted she will leave me after sponsoring her mother. There's a lot of a lot of relationship experts here that refuse to believe they are wrong so they continue with predictions until they are right.

Did you ever wonder if you were being used at all when she raised these topics with you Billy and that she might dump you after it was all done?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 22, 2018, 03:44:12 PM
Sorry my stubble just couldn't compete the girl has an obvious beard fetish! You should ask what happened to the beards of the other guys she dated, she may collect them ;D

I think a lot of guys myself included look out for potential warning signs on here. Not really personal to you, some girls are straight up & some devious or on their own agenda. A newbie will take a lot for granted including any explanations, I did. However over time you realise to look for the written & spoken nuances that can convey the girl's intent. I missed a fair few of these as I hadn't the experience at the time of FSU dating. However, none of the girls I met were bad girls but I think at least some of them had their own agenda, I just didn't fit with it.

It's not really possible to say what's the game here, not for me at least. She may be straight up but many UW have an agenda though sometimes somewhat benign.

I think you earn quite a lot of money, sure you may know others that dwarf your income. For Ukraine though $100-300k a year even with the odd leaner year is a fortune. You can easily dwarf  the richer Ukrainians out there on that income and there are not many of them. Apparently most of the wealth has been stripped out off Ukraine over the last few decades and the little that remains is the final remnants off it.

If she had a restaurant that was run into the ground she may not have as much wealth as you think. She make out she has a lot but might not have that much. I would proceed and go meet this girl in person as soon as you can. Spend some time with her and really get to know her. Be careful what you are giving away about yourself in the process also. Either way she sounds like a interesting personality to meet.
When it comes down to it, don’t all women have an agenda?

I am constantly trying to demonstrate to this girl what my standard of living is like.  Since she lived in Switzerland part time, she seems to have a better understanding that $100 does not go as far in some countries as it does in Ukraine. For example, she goes to this restaurant where she can get a large sushi roll for about $3.  I told her that same roll will be $15-$18 here.  I have taken her with me on virtual shopping trips so she can get a better idea how expensive it is to live here.

To clarify the failed restaurant thing... she gave it to her husband in the divorce and he killed it after she left.  She went back to working for her family business... and they seem to be doing okay.

I am aware that there are a lot of gold diggers out there and they will not advertise it.  There are plenty here in the US.  My second wife had similar motives that were not revealed until years later.  This is a big concern of mine, which is why I try to downplay my financial situation.  I want a girl to feel confident I can take care of her, but don’t want her to expect massive wealth.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 22, 2018, 04:36:06 PM
the odds of meeting an oligarch's daughter online        1 in 10,000
the odds of meeting a scammer online                           50/50

don't let occam's razor shave your beard off, er Beard!

Slovo te mamachika!!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 22, 2018, 05:29:02 PM
When it comes down to it, don’t all women have an agenda?

True many/nearly all will have an agenda. Some will be quite benign as wanting kids or companionship. Often I think their agenda stretches to other areas of their own personal interest. This may or may not include you in their long term plans. That said while a lot of UW are street smart I think some just want what they want and are fairly simple in outlook. Be cautious  of being played as part of agenda on their part though whilst trying not being too suspicious of her activity unless distinct tell tell signs are there.
I think the trick is to find a girl who is into you so her agenda whatever it was to start with generally takes back seat. That's what I'm hoping for on my next attempt at this with a bit of luck.

I think Krimster has a valid point about the odds of meeting an oligarchs daughter. Sure an oligarchs daughter would likey want to find at least a reasonably wealthy guy but the chances of meeting one online set against all the many poor girls out there??? Can't be high.

I'm not sure about her walking away from the restaurant if she was part of an oligarch's family either. Possibly she might only be semi wealthy out there. I think in Ukraine any sort of wealth would make a local a target unless they were ruthless enough to be able to protect it they would be easy prey. Most Ukrainians are pretty poor out there as a rule of thumb.

Easy to be suspicious but my suspicion would be if this girl is getting guys to finance her trips in some manner. Could be wrong, like I say I think this one is interesting enough for you to play along and find out if she is the real deal.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 22, 2018, 07:12:54 PM
True many/nearly all will have an agenda. Some will be quite benign as wanting kids or companionship. Often I think their agenda stretches to other areas of their own personal interest. This may or may not include you in their long term plans. That said while a lot of UW are street smart I think some just want what they want and are fairly simple in outlook. Be cautious  of being played as part of agenda on their part though whilst trying not being too suspicious of her activity unless distinct tell tell signs are there.
I think the trick is to find a girl who is into you so her agenda whatever it was to start with generally takes back seat. That's what I'm hoping for on my next attempt at this with a bit of luck.

I think Krimster has a valid point about the odds of meeting an oligarchs daughter. Sure an oligarchs daughter would likey want to find at least a reasonably wealthy guy but the chances of meeting one online set against all the many poor girls out there??? Can't be high.

I'm not sure about her walking away from the restaurant if she was part of an oligarch's family either. Possibly she might only be semi wealthy out there. I think in Ukraine any sort of wealth would make a local a target unless they were ruthless enough to be able to protect it they would be easy prey. Most Ukrainians are pretty poor out there as a rule of thumb.

Easy to be suspicious but my suspicion would be if this girl is getting guys to finance her trips in some manner. Could be wrong, like I say I think this one is interesting enough for you to play along and find out if she is the real deal.
It sounds like we are pretty much on the same page on this.

What I do know is that whatever this girl wants from me, it is worth her investing countless hours every day for weeks on end... including many nights with no sleep because she stays up all night talking to me.

I told her that I do not travel extensively like she may be used to... the most she can expect is 1-2 international trips a year. I told her I let my last live-in domestic helper go a couple years ago.  I don’t like employees in my house, so there will be no more maids, cooks, nannies, etc.  I am responsible for bringing home the bacon and my wife is responsible for all domestic duties.

I guess only time will reveal the truth here... and my curiosity really wants to know.  The opportunity cost is pretty low (assuming no body bags are involved).  The upside is high (I meet an incredible woman).  On the downside... I will at least have a helluva story for the forums.

It funny how the basic consensus is she’s too good to be true.  Women here tell me that all the time.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 22, 2018, 07:16:31 PM
have you picked out silverware yet?
did you set up the wedding registry?
so much for you to do now!!!

don't worry about trivial details like meeting in person...
that ALWAYS goes well for you doesn't it?
ohh and don't forget you got the beard helpin ya out with the ladies!!!
clever making yourself look 10 years older with the beard!
Ukrainian chicks TOTALLY DIG older guys and taking care of older guy's kids
they yearn for this!!!
a master stroke for sure!!!
and an oligarch's daughter is an even better story on your part!!!


Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 22, 2018, 08:53:02 PM
Okay, so I’m getting my last minute stuff together for my trip...

As suggested, I got some simple gifts like See’s candy and such.  So what’s the etiquette? Do I wrap this stuff and have a card, or do I just give it to her (I also got something for the parents, just in case).

I have been putting off this trip for three years. I’m excited that it’s finally happening...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 22, 2018, 09:42:48 PM
“I got some simple gifts like See’s candy and such...”


what a big spender!!!
impressive!!! 
amazing foresight on your part for sure, it’s ALL but guaranteed for you now!!!!
Man! when she sees that candy, she will totally KNOW how serious you are, and that YOU are totally the guy for her
and guess what?
you'll TOTALLY BEAT THE OTHER GUYS!!





“So what’s the etiquette?  Do I wrap this stuff and have a card, or do I just give it to her”



something tells me that you’re thinking along the lines of “just give it to her”
but that’s NOT the right answer!

you’re SERIOUSLY a 50 date veteran?
did a blow to the head give you amnesia or something?

See’s Candy?
you might as well go with a Pez Dispenser, actually think it’d be better IMHO...
I bet you have no idea how difficult it can be buying Pez in Ukraine
but it's not easy, let me tell you
I remember this one time ....
never mind, gotta go!!!

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 22, 2018, 10:10:01 PM

See’s Candy?
you might as well go with a Pez Dispenser, actually think it’d be better IMHO...
I bet you have no idea how difficult it can be buying Pez in Ukraine
but it's not easy, let me tell you
I remember this one time ....
never mind, gotta go!!!
What kind of gift do you suggest then?

I’m new at this. I don’t recall ever giving a gift to a girl on a first date.  Even after that, I rarely give gifts (unless it’s her birthday or something)..  Maybe I sometimes bring a bottle of wine if a girl is making me dinner, but that’s about it.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 22, 2018, 10:28:02 PM
diamonds are a girl's best friend!
either play your "A" game or stay home...
a grand gesture
actually has to be grand!
but don't give her the jewelry right away...
wait for that "special moment"

best bet
get her clothing sizes (yes, ask her!)
convert the metric UA to US sizes
get the best cashmere sweater
you can buy in her size
ask about her clothing preferences, colors, etc

go fo the Pez

you don't think UA women like diamonds?
you pronounce it "brillante" in Russian
learn color, clarity, cut, carats

see pic below, typical reaction of UA woman to diamonds!!!




Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 22, 2018, 10:42:17 PM
diamonds are a girl's best friend!
either play your "A" game or stay home...
a grand gesture
actually has to be grand!
but don't give her the jewelry right away...
wait for that "special moment"

best bet
get her clothing sizes (yes, ask her!)
convert the metric UA to US sizes
get the best cashmere sweater
you can buy in her size
ask about her clothing preferences, colors, etc

go fo the Pez

you don't think UA women like diamonds?
you pronounce it "brillante" in Russian
learn color, clarity, cut, carats

see pic below, typical reaction of UA woman to diamonds!!!

Isn’t that stuff a bit over the top for a first date?

Like I said, I’m clueless here... I don’t normally bring anything to a first date.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 22, 2018, 10:51:36 PM
“Isn’t that stuff a bit over the top for a first date?

Like I said, I’m clueless here... I don’t normally bring anything to a first date.”


whaaaaattttttcha talkin bout Willis?
bringing nuthin?
you better NOT do that to a UA woman!!!!

ok, you don’t hand her ALL the booty on the first date!!!
geezzz!
you escalate at the appropriate time, with a pièce de résistance if things work out...
wimmin freakin love clothes and jewelry
so ya get em used to the idea, that you’re cool with ALL THAT
and you like gettin it for em!!!!

it’s all ya gotta do...

first date, you can totally bring her a cashmere sweater
nothing is more personal or intimate than clothing or jewelry (don’t do lingerie!)
and then she puts on what you brought her and you head out for sushi!!!

this would be a great start!!!

you weren't thinking of behaving with this UA woman like you would on a date with a AW?
no......


Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 22, 2018, 10:59:08 PM
In my case BB I go for flowers, there the standard staple to give a FSW. Now your unlikely to be able to get them there as she's meeting you at the airport isn't she. So I would get some within 24hrs before leaving, stuff them in your suitcase and hope for the best. Either go for a bunch - odd numbers - or just one. If you're goimg back to her place/your place in a taxi then a bunch is fine. If there is any strolling around involved then just one rose works a treat, much more convenient for her to cart around.

Red is the standard safe bet for rose colour. In my opinion different colours i.e in her favourite colour doesn't tend to yield any better results. Also if she's not into you then no rose or attentative to colour will help you out I find.

Gifts are fine with a visit like yours but don't thrust it all on her at arrivals, just the flower(s) will do. Otherwise it can be pretty awkward and lacking in grace/sophistication. More so if her accomodation  is not close at hand. The gift you want to have maximum effect. Plus I've learnt that of the girl is not into you its a waste to give her a gift/expensive  gift. You could even take an expensive one & and cheaper one, and give her the cheaper one if its looking more like a friends thing ;D Keep the expensive one back for a refund or visit to another girl. Similarly if you're not getting on at all then no need bothering giving her a gift. Judge it as it goes & give her a good few hours at least as time in which she has the option of bailing.

Keeping a gift back from a general 'we got on ok' date means forgoing the bother of getting another gift next time as odds are you'll never see her again. Just do the same again with next girl until you meet a girl worthy of gift giving :D
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 22, 2018, 11:09:51 PM
Trench,

I have an even better approach!
you give a UW a piece of jewelry
but it has a tiny, invisible kevlar thread tied to it
and after she accepts it, you say, "look!  what's that over there"?
and when she turns her head to look
you yank on the kevlar thread and back the jewelry goes straight into you pocket, completely undetected!!!
it takes a bit of practice to get it right!!!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on November 23, 2018, 12:09:09 AM
Did you ever wonder if you were being used at all when she raised these topics with you Billy and that she might dump you after it was all done?

Not at all. I'm happy every time my wife advances in life. No need to fear when she gets the green card, citizenship, graduate from college or get a job and make good money. I help her every step of the way instead of locking her up in a closet.

I got some simple gifts like See’s candy and such.  So what’s the etiquette? Do I wrap this stuff and have a card, or do I just give it to her (I also got something for the parents, just in case).


See's candy is good stuff and all FSU women I've given it to love it. I wouldn't give a card or wrapped anything. If your bags get inspected at the airports, the wrapping comes off anyway. Challenge yourself to win the girl over with who you are, not what you give or have in your wallet.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: John Gaunt on November 23, 2018, 12:12:32 AM
In my case BB I go for flowers, there the standard staple to give a FSW. Now your unlikely to be able to get them there as she's meeting you at the airport isn't she. So I would get some within 24hrs before leaving, stuff them in your suitcase and hope for the best. Either go for a bunch - odd numbers - or just one. If you're goimg back to her place/your place in a taxi then a bunch is fine. If there is any strolling around involved then just one rose works a treat, much more convenient for her to cart around.

Red is the standard safe bet for rose colour. In my opinion different colours i.e in her favourite colour doesn't tend to yield any better results. Also if she's not into you then no rose or attentative to colour will help you out I find.

Gifts are fine with a visit like yours but don't thrust it all on her at arrivals, just the flower(s) will do. Otherwise it can be pretty awkward and lacking in grace/sophistication. More so if her accomodation  is not close at hand. The gift you want to have maximum effect. Plus I've learnt that of the girl is not into you its a waste to give her a gift/expensive  gift. You could even take an expensive one & and cheaper one, and give her the cheaper one if its looking more like a friends thing ;D Keep the expensive one back for a refund or visit to another girl. Similarly if you're not getting on at all then no need bothering giving her a gift. Judge it as it goes & give her a good few hours at least as time in which she has the option of bailing.

Keeping a gift back from a general 'we got on ok' date means forgoing the bother of getting another gift next time as odds are you'll never see her again. Just do the same again with next girl until you meet a girl worthy of gift giving :D
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
You should write a book Trench. You could title it, ‘The Clueless Cheapskates Guide to Dating a FSUW.’
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: jone on November 23, 2018, 02:15:27 AM
Mr. Beard,

Don't cater to Krimster.  He overplays everything on this forum.  As stated  before, don't go overboard on the first meeting.  If you want to buy your woman diamonds down the road, feel free.   But the first trip is always to see if there is chemistry.

Krimster is advocating giving gifts for the role of legsplitter. 

I don't think you need that.   Your place in life and what you want from a woman indicates that if the woman likes you for what you buy her, you will not find what you are looking for. 

I was asked by my woman not to post any more pictures of her on here.  But she is an exceptional looking woman and very sweet and giving.  I did not have to win her over with expensive gifts.   You shouldn't have to either.  Find the woman who is going to be with you in good times and bad.  To me, that means that your gifts should not be a bribe, but an acknowledgement that you treasure your meeting.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: rwd123 on November 23, 2018, 02:36:29 AM
Buy her a diamond as big as a pelmeni. Then get her to eat it like in the film Marathon Man.

Is it safe?

Well, to be on the safe side start small and conservative. A single rose or NICE chocolates is generally sufficient. Alternatively rock up with nothing. But you are projecting, and she will have expectations. So use your intuition. Gifts will typically increase in size/price so if you start big you're only going to get bigger.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 23, 2018, 05:08:59 AM
Mr. Beard,

Don't cater to Krimster.  He overplays everything on this forum.  As stated  before, don't go overboard on the first meeting.  If you want to buy your woman diamonds down the road, feel free.   But the first trip is always to see if there is chemistry.

Krimster is advocating giving gifts for the role of legsplitter. 

I don't think you need that.   Your place in life and what you want from a woman indicates that if the woman likes you for what you buy her, you will not find what you are looking for. 

I was asked by my woman not to post any more pictures of her on here.  But she is an exceptional looking woman and very sweet and giving.  I did not have to win her over with expensive gifts.   You shouldn't have to either.  Find the woman who is going to be with you in good times and bad.  To me, that means that your gifts should not be a bribe, but an acknowledgement that you treasure your meeting.


I was thinking along these lines.  If the girl is used to guys buying her expensive gifts, I want to be the opposite of that.  I want to discourage any women who may be interested in me for financial reasons.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on November 23, 2018, 08:16:40 AM
I think a box of condoms that are all different colors would make any gal pretty happy as a present.  With different colors, one is sure to match her underwear on any given day. 

And this gift shows you are considerate, especially if there are enough to have some left over after you are gone.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 23, 2018, 08:25:25 AM
"I want to be the opposite of that. "

and what do you think SHE wants?
take a guess?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 23, 2018, 09:03:10 AM
I think a box of condoms that are all different colors would make any gal pretty happy as a present.  With different colors, one is sure to match her underwear on any given day. 

And this gift shows you are considerate, especially if there are enough to have some left over after you are gone.
Well, duh!  I am bringing that already.

Except I’m bringing any unused ones home with me.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 23, 2018, 09:54:57 AM
“Don't cater to Krimster.  He overplays everything on this forum. “



What?
are YOU sir accusing ME of being an ill humored provokateur and scoundrel
by becoming one yourself?
the irony must be too heavy for you to carry by now
I'd just set it down if I were you...



“Krimster is advocating giving gifts for the role of legsplitter.”



OK, ya got me there, yes!
cuz to me, that’s “part of the deal”

I’ve had WAY more experience in Ukraine than you m’man
I’m not just a one UA woman guy

if you haven’t used a “legsplitter” as you so eloquently put it
then how are you going to climb past that?
you HAVE to do this first!

and I prefer to hit them with “shock and awe”

don’t be a little girly man about your wife’s pictures!!!


hey if you all wanna go with Sees Candy
let me tell ya about Cracker Jacks
it even has a little present in each box
so it's like two presents for the price of one!!!

you guys act like a bunch of hillbillys showing up at the French Royal Court in Versailles
you have no idea how to court a woman do you
you must make her feel
like she is the most beautiful flower in the world
and you are the bringer of the sun and the rain
her protector, the one person she can trust absolutely
who is able to unlock the key to release her passion

the art of giving gifts when courting a woman
is far too refined a subject for this board
I don’t want to delve into the merits of Cracker Jacks vrs Pez vrs Sees Candy

here’s my advice
a good scout always knows the territory
so what are this UA woman’s interests, hobbies, etc
bring gifts that relate to that


Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 23, 2018, 10:11:15 AM
Well, I guess it wouldn’t hurt to hit the mall today  and see if any jewelry catches my eye...

It’s just my luck to meet a girl who only wears white gold...

There are no half ass jewelry options here.  Good thing she already has the diamond tennis bracelet taken care of...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GenMish on November 23, 2018, 10:16:06 AM
When it comes down to it, don’t all women have an agenda?

I am constantly trying to demonstrate to this girl what my standard of living is like.  Since she lived in Switzerland part time, she seems to have a better understanding that $100 does not go as far in some countries as it does in Ukraine. For example, she goes to this restaurant where she can get a large sushi roll for about $3.  I told her that same roll will be $15-$18 here.  I have taken her with me on virtual shopping trips so she can get a better idea how expensive it is to live here.

,,,,,,  I want a girl to feel confident I can take care of her, but don’t want her to expect massive wealth.

I think the USA is incredibly inexpensive place to live. My lifestyle would be 50% or more anywhere else probably double in Moscow. btw-I dont think there are better values for sushi than here. That $3 McSushi roll in Ukraine is nothing like the $15 rolls you will get in the USA. If you want good inexpensive sushi go to lunch specials. Around me there are at least 3 places that have $10 lunches that are two rolls, soup and salad. Good dinners here with Sushi, Nigiri and Sashimi at a nice restaurant can be done for about $35pp . You are in Chicago? Just go over to Kona Grill at Happy Hour and order a roll and beer for $7, take a pic, then send her that photo. I was just down on Merrit Island in Florida and went to a good restaurant for lunch, the $13 special was so big, I took half to my hotel and it covered dinner

  There is inexpensive food in the FSU, but most of it sucks except for certain items like Caviar and Smoked Fish


Anyways that's pennies, your main costs bringing her here will be things like Dr Visits and health insurance, a car, some College classes  etc... She might need dental work done etc....

Gifts? If it were me, I would find out her favorite perfume
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 23, 2018, 10:20:59 AM
women have jewelry preferences
you can always talk to her indirectly about the subject
like "my mother had blah blah kind of jewelry, what kind do you have in Ukraine"
to get her to talk about it - steer the conversation into her preferences
rings are hard to buy because of sizing issue, course if you had her size...

necklaces are usually a safe bet
doesn't HAVE to be diamond, but something SHARP looking

http://www.macys.com/shop/jewelry-watches/necklaces/Metal/Platinum%7CWhite%20Gold?id=9569
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: jone on November 23, 2018, 11:12:47 AM
Right. 

Gonna get into jewelry buying and comparison issues to previous boyfriends right off the bat.  Sounds intelligent to me.

We had a guy on here, who is now gone, who bought his gal jewelry the first trip to Moscow.  She appreciated it, but used it as a gauge in the future to see how his interest was in her.   We used to call her Sasha Coaster.   When he gave her jewelry, she was all hugs and kisses.  But when she was not being handed the bling she was morose. She drove the guy to drink and she eventually dumped him to find someone who would give her more.  (We totaled up what he had given her and it was in excess of $40,000 in jewelry.)

My point being that if you do more than 'interest' gifts at the first meeting, you will be hard pressed to understand where this gal's interests really lie.  And unless you're willing to make jewelry giving a standard, then you will be forever disappointing her when you give her something less than bling.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 23, 2018, 11:14:46 AM
I guess all girls are different.  She started asking a lot of questions when I started hinting around trying to get her size and preferences.

The bottom line is she doesn’t want me buying her Sh*t.  She said If she wants something, she will buy it for herself with her own money.  The gold digger theories aren’t looking too strong at this point.

As for necklaces... she has three that she wears every day. She doesn’t have room for more.  She doesn’t want more.  She has three earrings in each ear and rarely changes them out because they all have special meaning...

Candy is looking better and better...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: LAman on November 23, 2018, 12:02:43 PM
Well, duh!  I am bringing that already.

Except I’m bringing any unused ones home with me.

That’s good idea bringing home what’s left, you will be able to return the item and get refund!!! )))
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on November 23, 2018, 12:23:42 PM
If the girl is used to guys buying her expensive gifts, I want to be the opposite of that.  I want to discourage any women who may be interested in me for financial reasons.

Let things flow naturally and see how she shows you her city. If she takes you into expensive shops and ask you to buy her things, she's not a keeper. My wife never asked me to buy her anything when I visited her. A woman with good manners will not ask a guy she just met to buy her something.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: jone on November 23, 2018, 12:39:29 PM
Let things flow naturally and see how she shows you her city. If she takes you into expensive shops and ask you to buy her things, she's not a keeper. My wife never asked me to buy her anything when I visited her. A woman with good manners will not ask a guy she just met to buy her something.

Ahem, Billy,

Your wife was a teenager when you met her.   This woman is not.  Nevertheless, if a woman is asking you, the first time you are together to buy her things then she is not someone that would interest me.   The first time together is ALL about chemistry.   
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GenMish on November 23, 2018, 12:39:56 PM
The last several posts reminded me of the Benny Hill Peanut Skit. For those that haven't seen it, it starts with Benny Hill dancing with a few gorgeous women. He then takes out a bag of peanuts from his pocket, and offers a peanut to one of the ladies. She refuses. He keeps offering, she keeps refusing. Finally Benny asks 'Why are you refusing a peanut?'
She replies ' I don't want to feel obligated to you for the evening'
Benny responds 'ITS A PEANUT!, you wouldn't be obligated to me for a peanut! Its not like its a Candy Bar'
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 23, 2018, 01:30:44 PM
you guys don’t get IT AT ALL!!!
it’s NOT ABOUT you buying her with a candy bar, no, no, no....
it’s about YOU demonstrating to HER  that you’re comfortable making these kind of luxury purchases for her now and in the FUTURE!!!!!
cuz news flash, despite what YOU’RE thinking, SHE’S TOTALLY thinking this way!!!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: jone on November 23, 2018, 01:36:25 PM
you guys don’t get IT AT ALL!!!
it’s NOT ABOUT you buying her with a candy bar, no, no, no....
it’s about demonstrating that you’re comfortable making these kind of luxury purchases for her!!!!!
cuz news flash, despite what YOU’RE thinking, SHE’S TOTALLY thinking this way!!!

No.  They aren't.   Were I to spend that much on a woman at the first time we met, unless she was a gold digger, her first thought would be that I was trying to buy my way into her pants.   Good FSUW are very practical.   They want to know that you will provide for them.  But, absent a previous relationship, they would consider bling gifts the first time you met to be nothing more than a bribe.

Of course, if you are Krimster, you're used to paying for sleeping with women.   Sorry, Krim, but that is the reputation you have on this forum.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on November 23, 2018, 03:16:52 PM
The bottom line is she doesn’t want me buying her Sh*t.  cause they all have special meaning...

Candy is looking better and better...

If you haven't met her in person, my advice would be to buy her

1. Table top style picture books of the area surrounding where you live: You can find them at
Barnes and Noble or Amazon. These books show her some of the interesting things near where
you live. Go through the book so that you can have a little story or anecdote about each page.
Doing this highly personalizes the gift and gets her thinking of life with you, where you live.


2. Chocolate: She likes either dark or light so find out which and bring some high quality truffles
with you.   http://www.yelp.com/search?cflt=chocolate&find_loc=Chicago%2C+IL


3. Some Real Maple syrup: It's still fairly uncommon in Russia, tell her it's for blini. Ask her to
make some for you. They have Marshmallows in the FSU, but they are rare. So bring some Swiss
Miss cocoa and drop a couple marshmallows in the cup to melt on top. It's just a little something
different from home and it's always easy to find an excuse to drink hot cocoa.


4. Something local: a Black Hawks Tee or one of the local sports team (remember she is smaller than
American girls), probably a Small or extra small. Pear Tree preserves make local jams in Chicago. Maybe
some strawberry rhubarb (I made it this year)
http://voyagechicago.com/interview/meet-susie-kirkwood-pear-tree-preserves-humboldt-park-chicago/


5. Something handmade: If you can make something better than a paperclip necklace or a pirate hat
from a newspaper. Although those are GREAT Gifts to be made on the spot for nieces and nephews.
Hand made gifts are the best.


These are excellent things to give an FSUW, they are personal, unique to you and the area you
live and don't cost much so they are easy for her to accept (and to cherish).


Udachi!

Bill
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 23, 2018, 05:34:23 PM
"Of course, if you are Krimster, you're used to paying for sleeping with women.   Sorry, Krim, but that is the reputation you have on this forum."

no offense taken
because I acknowledge the fact that ALL men MUST pay for sex in one form or another...
married men typically pay the most

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GQBlues on November 23, 2018, 07:52:46 PM
What a nutty thread. BB, you went from an alleged raging serial dating Casanova to the typical MOBer. You need to chill a bit man. You’re talking about jewelry for someone you haven’t met?

I thought better of you, man.

Thoughts of this gal is sitting way too long in your mind. Nothing wrong with wovo but living life with someone through imagined expectations is absurd. Take your trip, meet the person and find out how both of you feel. There’s plenty of time to live you life after if it’s called for.

Sees candy is fine. Remember one thing about Slavs and their chocolates, they’ll check the cocoa content. So don’t make that a habit.

Relax man. Date like you said you can where you are. That’s all this is at this time. Likely will be a while.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: jone on November 23, 2018, 08:12:38 PM
Oh, that is too funny.   

I am sitting here looking at a chocolate bar with 77% cocoa content.   The remnants of a chocolate binge.   I never liked the cocoa that strong, but the FSUW love it.   And would have higher cocoa content if they could have it.   That is a standing joke.   I'll propose to get her a chocolate bar and she will politely decline it.   Then I will hem and haw and produce one with the required percentage.  70 seems to be the minimum.

For those whose requirements are not being met, this particular bar is from Chocolove out of Boulder, CO. 

BB, don't worry about the Sees Candy.   She'll love that its coming from you and that you cared enough to think about her.   
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: jone on November 23, 2018, 08:15:12 PM
"Of course, if you are Krimster, you're used to paying for sleeping with women.   Sorry, Krim, but that is the reputation you have on this forum."

no offense taken
because I acknowledge the fact that ALL men MUST pay for sex in one form or another...
married men typically pay the most

National Treasure:  There is only one debt that all men pay.....
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 23, 2018, 08:18:57 PM
What a nutty thread. BB, you went from an alleged raging serial dating Casanova to the typical MOBer. You need to chill a bit man. You’re talking about jewelry for someone you haven’t met?

I thought better of you, man.

Thoughts of this gal is sitting way too long in your mind. Nothing wrong with wovo but living life with someone through imagined expectations is absurd. Take your trip, meet the person and find out how both of you feel. There’s plenty of time to live you life after if it’s called for.

Sees candy is fine. Remember one thing about Slavs and their chocolates, they’ll check the cocoa content. So don’t make that a habit.

Relax man. Date like you said you can where you are. That’s all this is at this time. Likely will be a while.
Thanks for the reality check.  I needed that slap upside the head.

Yes, I am overthinking this... As is said earlier, I had no intentions of giving any gifts originally. I would rather not even give the candy.  It just not my style... but I don’t want to be culturally insensitive.

When I was “courting” my ex wives, I didn’t buy them Sh*t.  In fact, I took my second wife out to dinner on her birthday when we were engaged.  I completely forgot it was her birthday.  She kept expecting me to pull out a present all night.  It never happened.  The next day she questioned me about it.  All she got from me for her birthday was an “oops, sorry!”.  It didn’t stop her from marrying me a month later....

I guess I’m just really hoping to get out of this dating rut I am in.  I know it’s going to be hard to be abstinent at home if I meet miss perfect over there.  As much as I like this UW, I didn’t hesitate for a minute to sleep with another girl earlier today... hopefully I would have a little more self control if we were actually dating.  I want something with more substance....
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: jone on November 23, 2018, 08:43:21 PM
Thanks for the reality check.  I needed that slap upside the head.

Yes, I am overthinking this... As is said earlier, I had no intentions of giving any gifts originally. I would rather not even give the candy.  It just not my style... but I don’t want to be culturally insensitive.

When I was “courting” my ex wives, I didn’t buy them Sh*t.  In fact, I took my second wife out to dinner on her birthday when we were engaged.  I completely forgot it was her birthday.  She kept expecting me to pull out a present all night.  It never happened.  The next day she questioned me about it.  All she got from me for her birthday was an “oops, sorry!”.  It didn’t stop her from marrying me a month later....

I guess I’m just really hoping to get out of this dating rut I am in.  I know it’s going to be hard to be abstinent at home if I meet miss perfect over there.  As much as I like this UW, I didn’t hesitate for a minute to sleep with another girl earlier today... hopefully I would have a little more self control if we were actually dating.  I want something with more substance....

Yeah, the hardest part is the long distance aspect of the relationship.   You may have all the right ingredients for a relationship, but if you and she are G.U. (geographically undesirable) the relationship goes downhill in a hurry.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: SteveInBoston on November 24, 2018, 12:45:49 AM
My first trip I got her a Patriots jersey and Red Sox hat, and Celtics shirt and shorts for her nephews.

She had a gift for me - an expensive hand embroidered vyshyvanka.

It is more about that you care enough to get her something.  Also, something unusual didn't hurt. ;)
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 24, 2018, 06:05:09 AM
I get the impression that a lot of UW are more open to relationships with a greater variety of men than in the west. That UW are less bothered about finding 'the one' - if they even know that as a concept - and more about getting into a relationship with 'a guy in general'. So that what is important is that they find a man they can at least get along with as preferable to being left on the shelf. So they are pleased to receive interest from many a man. They know that some may be more suitable but as the Ukrainian  dating market favours the man they can't afford to be too fussy. I get the impression as such if you push the boat out even some of the UW that you don't fit with real well will come around given the right approach and some wooing.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: JayH on November 24, 2018, 07:00:25 AM
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
You should write a book Trench. You could title it, ‘The Clueless Cheapskates Guide to Dating a FSUW.’

That is a thread title that needs doing  ie


‘The Clueless Cheapskates Guide to Dating a FSUW.’ via Trenchcoat


If you don't --I will !!

Seriously -- I wrote in thread  of what to buy ( ie next to nothing) for first meeting  . I note the op has  ignored that --instead he listens to some truly clueless ( Trenchcoat)and near clueless (BillyB) and some ridiculous ( the K) comments for info.

I make no claim on knowing everything or suggesting there is only one way to do anything --BUT -- giving much credence to a guy with next to zero time on the ground ( trench = what ?6 days of failure?)  and guys who make ridiculous bragging claims from a yesteryear etc etc --compared with my average of well over 100 days a year in Ukraine over some years( quite a few in fact) etc etc

A few facts-- there is very little I can think of not available to buy in Ukraine -get your head around that.The last 24 hours-- the shops have been packed-- and i mean incredibly busy everywhere you turn --put that in the Trenchcoat pipe and smoke it !!

This in not the 1990's where girls did try and escape-- and tried to find a meal ticket to feed her family-- those days are long gone now.Unless guys are big city savvy &  cool ( ie interesting)-- chances are Ukrainian girls are going to be out of bounds for them . FULL STOP. Now that applies to a guy in a decent age range --if older and a bigger age gap-- a guy will really need something going for him.

If you have Trenchcoat type cheap in your head and are going to quibble over every cent you spend -- forget it -- you are wasting your time . FULL STOP
Today  above -I just read the height of ridiculous -- ie buying flowers to carry on an airplane LoL -too stupid for words.


Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 24, 2018, 10:38:35 AM
That is a thread title that needs doing  ie


‘The Clueless Cheapskates Guide to Dating a FSUW.’ via Trenchcoat


If you don't --I will !!

Seriously -- I wrote in thread  of what to buy ( ie next to nothing) for first meeting  . I note the op has  ignored that --instead he listens to some truly clueless ( Trenchcoat)and near clueless (BillyB) and some ridiculous ( the K) comments for info.

I make no claim on knowing everything or suggesting there is only one way to do anything --BUT -- giving much credence to a guy with next to zero time on the ground ( trench = what ?6 days of failure?)  and guys who make ridiculous bragging claims from a yesteryear etc etc --compared with my average of well over 100 days a year in Ukraine over some years( quite a few in fact) etc etc

A few facts-- there is very little I can think of not available to buy in Ukraine -get your head around that.The last 24 hours-- the shops have been packed-- and i mean incredibly busy everywhere you turn --put that in the Trenchcoat pipe and smoke it !!

This in not the 1990's where girls did try and escape-- and tried to find a meal ticket to feed her family-- those days are long gone now.Unless guys are big city savvy &  cool ( ie interesting)-- chances are Ukrainian girls are going to be out of bounds for them . FULL STOP. Now that applies to a guy in a decent age range --if older and a bigger age gap-- a guy will really need something going for him.

If you have Trenchcoat type cheap in your head and are going to quibble over every cent you spend -- forget it -- you are wasting your time . FULL STOP
Today  above -I just read the height of ridiculous -- ie buying flowers to carry on an airplane LoL -too stupid for words.

Jay, you can look around for a girl that is happy with more modest ideas on gifts, wants, etc. I am generally doing that also, you seem to think too modest, that's fine I understand that.

What Krimster is saying I believe is that if a guy is intent on a girl then expensive gifts like diamonds  are the most sure fire way to bring a girl around. As Jone has pointed out this has its downsides - she will expect at least around that next time or more. Krimster is a software engineer that earns loads of money so money is not much off an issue to him I get the impression. Nothing wrong with that he is using what he has got that he knows works with a lot of UW as it is easy for him & of little consequence. Krimster was also looking at most relationships as short term affairs for personal enjoyment. Yes a guy that is looking for a long term relationship who is not loaded could seriously mess things up by going in with expensive gifts that he can't keep up. I know from my experiences with a girl last year that once you start on the gift giving apart from the greeting flowers/basic gift you are setting the  basis on which that relationship will likely be based.

The question is whether BB on meeting this girl will want a short or long term relationship?

He seems to indicate a desire for a long term relationship but his dating actions at home at the moment indicate that it might end up more of a short term deal.

Flowers incidently I have been told by a florist open out more in flight due to the warm cabin/hold temperatures as the planew is nearer the sun, etc. So it can help a rose particularly I'd it is the opening out type to look more beautiful. So long of course that you don't buy it days before the journey, within 24 hrs is best. Also apparently no water tube for the journey is needed either. A small bunch of flowers is not bad as you can then choose the best looking one once there.

I too have seen many Ukrainians around thE shopping area in Kiev, however few were at the shop tills buying - just me apparently, lol.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 24, 2018, 11:05:01 AM
geezzz JayH

there is information, knowledge, and wisdom
I do not believe that whatever quantities of these you possess is greater than anyone else’s on this board!

if you feel I am in error, then please enumerate by specific examples of your success in Ukraine

do remember, “it ain’t brag, if it’s fact”
and lay off the dingo juice


BTW mein volk
about jewelry in Ukraine
do remember Ukraine has a 20% VAT, plus there is an extra 10% luxury tax on top of that, so 30 % sales tax on jewelry in Ukraine!

IMHO, a lot of counterfeit jewelry is sold in Ukraine!
as a result of high tax and high probability of counterfeiting, I would NEVER recommend buying jewelry in Ukraine!!

so, if you are considering jewelry as a gift, you must bring it with you...


OK, due to the fact, that most of the readers of this board are uncultured hillbillys
I should explain the Krimster Jewelry Policy in the context of a first date meeting
and yes the Krimster Jewelry Policy does have MULTIPLE contexts

you keep the jewelry for “later”
I always plan for success by the way
have never known failure in Ukraine

a total inventory of gifts would include from the following:

1. tea/coffee sampler set
2. handmade soap and beeswax candles from my hometown
3. if it’s winter - fur lined leather gloves in her size
4. cashmere sweater (highest quality in her size and color)
5. gold/platinum necklace or diamond+saphires

you begin with the simplest, and then as your relationship progress you keep surprising her with gifts, it’s the surprise part that’s also important!

on the evening that the two of you are going to have sex for the first time, you give her the necklace during dinner

OK, all ist klar?

JayH, please remember there are two kinds of men in this world
the kind that have to wash their own underwear
and the other kind that have a beautiful woman do the washing for them

I know which kind of man I am...
JayH, which kind are you?


Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 24, 2018, 12:14:22 PM
For krimster -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V46hFOCWM60


This post was composed with the aid of youtube.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 24, 2018, 12:30:55 PM
don't mock me wench!
for I am the mighty Tatar lord who lays waste to all in his path!


Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 24, 2018, 12:34:20 PM
You do know what happened to the Tatars, right?

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: JayH on November 24, 2018, 12:42:51 PM
For you K man --advice to buy jewelery to a guy that has never met the girl --is ridiculous. FULL STOP
The OP is  in the barely know her category -- with even less of an idea of what he is facing .
To spell it out --going overboard with an expensive gift will embarrass  someone -the girl or the OP !!It is totally unwarranted and out of place  --like a guy who buys dinner and expects to get his leg over as "payment" !!

Now for all to note --the K exposure was 20 years ago --and handing out expensive gifts as an opener ( Jone put it more bluntly what it was intended to open)   The real fact is that the K man has bragged about what I see as a modest "scoreboard" of his "achievements"all in the no big deal category  that idiots like Trenchcoat thinks he can emulate . For those that think I am being cruel-- note TC is a disciple of numerous sex tourists that promote some of the garbage TC has sprouted and continues to sprout.
Like I said above --the experiences of yesteryear are quite different -- so for all of yesterdays people--face it.Sure -- relationship issues do not change that much -- but it is a very very different world.

I note above --Trenchcoat thinks he knows better -- for anyone else here who has been in Ukraine this last few days-- please -- spell out what I was alluding too. The shopping centres are packed,the markets are jumping ( -4C outside today)  -- and specifically for TC-- queues at cash registers 10 deep !! And TC still thinks he is an oligarch compared to people in Ukraine !!

The point of my comments --if you go with such outmoded arse up ideas -- YOU WILL FAIL.That fundamentally condescending lack of respect reflects on the dunce who thinks like that.
Those encouraging ideas like that -- are not helping anyone . There are enough dumb guys who arrive here without encouraging them to be even dumber !!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GenMish on November 24, 2018, 01:15:20 PM
For you K man --advice to buy jewelery to a guy that has never met the girl --is ridiculous. FULL STOP
The OP is  in the barely know her category --


The way I read it, K man isn't saying its the right thing to do, K is just goading BB into buying jewelry for her. imo-K man thinks BB is going to be shot down, and why not have BB go down in flames?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 24, 2018, 02:06:02 PM
you guys seem to predicate everything being based on a failed outcome...

this NEVER happened to ME in Ukraine even with women 20 yr younger than me!

NEVER! NOT ONCE!
and why I always planned for success there
and also why I’m totally baffled by guys who have struck out there




“You do know what happened to the Tatars, right?"

yes BO!
they got rich from selling pretty little Ukrainian girls in the slave markets of Constantinople!

JayH,

on the issue of currency of experience
as has been said here before by others
the more things change, the more they remain the same
my experience in Crimea this past July
fully verified this
BTW, JayH, I read that Tide is a great laundry detergent for getting out those really tough underwear stains!





Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 24, 2018, 02:16:49 PM
Every Tatar khanate was defeated by the Russians, subsumed to Russian rule.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 24, 2018, 02:34:32 PM
OK, due to the fact, that most of the readers of this board are uncultured hillbillys
I should explain the Krimster Jewelry Policy in the context of a first date meeting
and yes the Krimster Jewelry Policy does have MULTIPLE contexts

you keep the jewelry for “later”
I always plan for success by the way
have never known failure in Ukraine

a total inventory of gifts would include from the following:

1. tea/coffee sampler set
2. handmade soap and beeswax candles from my hometown
3. if it’s winter - fur lined leather gloves in her size
4. cashmere sweater (highest quality in her size and color)
5. gold/platinum necklace or diamond+saphires

you begin with the simplest, and then as your relationship progress you keep surprising her with gifts, it’s the surprise part that’s also important!

on the evening that the two of you are going to have sex for the first time, you give her the necklace during dinner

OK, all ist klar?

Krim, is it ok if I substitute an expensive diamond necklace for a cheap but no less impressive Zirconia necklace in this enterprise?

I would off course make out it was a real expensive diamond necklace :D I'm pretty sure most would be none the wiser!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 24, 2018, 03:07:18 PM
you guys seem to predicate everything being based on a failed outcome...

this NEVER happened to ME in Ukraine even with women 20 yr younger than me!

NEVER! NOT ONCE!
and why I always planned for success there
and also why I’m totally baffled by guys who have struck out there.

I think pretty much all WM are clueless as to how  things are out there in terms of Ukrainian dating conventions & Ukrainian dating society. They go out there having been brought up in western society and are influenced  & conditioned by western society. Western society, it's norms & values are all they know and are used to. Western society is influenced greatly by the media and it's feminist agenda, take this article on the BBC website today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-46164568

I mean wtf how is a guy supposed to grow up in western society today even vaguely knowing what thd hell he is supposed to do and think in the western dating world, never mind in the Ukraine.

Our western society relays men in articles like these that they need to kow tow to whatever rubbish the girl comes out with to even stand a chance with a girl and even then their  chance us slim. As this article shows, one word out of place or one thing done by western dating convention that was the accepted way of doing things all off a sudden has become a bugbear of feminism and hence your relationship also. You can have your relationship ruined by one small insignificant detail or thing you do or are.

Most men are so confused as to what they are supposed to be doing in western relationships that they just don't know how to act, hence the situation of INCELS. The west generally teaches guys that they need to be namby pamby weak girly men so as to not offend girls if they are to stand any chance with them which they tend not to anyway.

Ukrainian women are a completely different scene, they are feminine not feminist. They know to take up feminism would be to destroy themselves and condemn them to a single life struggling on alone. Decades ago in the west women were probably more like UW not now though. I remember the eighties just and that was probably the last decade that had any conventional boy-girl notions of dating thd the boy being the boy and the girl being the girl. Guys growing up in the west since then will have utterly no inkling and will think the feminist western world is thd norm and how 'civilised' society is supposed to be.

Most of us on here are a bit older than that so some will have one clue BUT we are still influenced daily by the feminist media and that has its affects. A western man in Ukraine, particularly a newbie isnt going to have a clue of hos things are most of the time. Over time we learn some stuff but even still compared to a local such as yourself Krimster we only know but a few pieces of the puzzle. I for one am grateful to you in helping us all in how things are out there and hos to go about dating beautiful UW :)

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 24, 2018, 03:22:50 PM
I note above --Trenchcoat thinks he knows better -- for anyone else here who has been in Ukraine this last few days-- please -- spell out what I was alluding too. The shopping centres are packed,the markets are jumping ( -4C outside today)  -- and specifically for TC-- queues at cash registers 10 deep !! And TC still thinks he is an oligarch compared to people in Ukraine !!

Jay in a city like Kiev of near 3 million people sure a few thousand even in bad times will have money to go shop a little bit. They will buy the odd few items. This is not the majority though. Both Donna Pedro & Krimster have told you that most Ukrainians are poor in general. Statistics, news reports and girls I have met have backed this up.

I know there was a time about a decade ago when we in thd west hit recession due to the credit crunch, etc. At that point many in the west weren't doing too well and Ukrainians by comparison weren't doing too badly. Since then their economy has crashed, civil war has erupted, inflation had gone up - they are back towards the bad old days of the nineties. Meanwhile much off western society is now getting on quite decently compared to credit crunch times of a decade ago.

A decade ago people I remember on here were saying the same thing as you now are - that Ukrainians are now quite wealthy and live a comparable life to us. They may have done for a while but now I'm pretty sure matters have returned most of them to a poor life style.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BdHvA on November 24, 2018, 04:33:53 PM
Krim, is it ok if I substitute an expensive diamond necklace for a cheap but no less impressive Zirconia necklace in this enterprise?

I would off course make out it was a real expensive diamond necklace :D I'm pretty sure most would be none the wiser!

Trench, While I am not certain what Krimster's opinion is, nor do I care. The above sums up your mentality and attitude quite well. Trying to get a pearl of great value on the cheap and by deception.

You continue to ignore members common sense advice and reinvent the wheel. Good Luck!

In the what it is worth department a fair number of younger women of Ukraine can sense (see and feel) the difference between carbon and zircon.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 24, 2018, 04:45:34 PM
dewd

he was joking...
that humor thing....
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Davo2 on November 24, 2018, 05:57:45 PM

It's hard to pick Trenches humor. He needs to utilize emoji's better.

Krim, is it ok if I substitute an expensive diamond necklace for a cheap but no less impressive Zirconia necklace in this enterprise? :thumbsup:

I would off course make out it was a real expensive diamond necklace. I'm pretty sure most would be none the wiser!  ;D
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: JayH on November 24, 2018, 06:37:34 PM
It's hard to pick Trenches humor. He needs to utilize emoji's better.

Nothing "humorous  in what the complete and utter f......g idiot says --  it may not be a serious comment from most people but it equals about how the idiot thinks.

I only bother to post my comments when I see  such misguided wrong headed crap from the idiot -- and a few others that are amused to egg him on. Naive people read this stuff -- and the volume of this idiots posts can only serve to be extremely unhelpful to anyone reading. His comments are offensive--  on many grounds. He cannot seem to ever learn or change -- regardless of how often and how many others have tried. I made the call that he is a social misfit ( in any world) very early here on the forum -- and a fair number here gave him the benefit of the doubt and showed great patience in trying to redirect him -the result --one by one and almost universally my assessment has been agreed with.

Read his responses above -- a painful attempt to  misrepresent what I actually said.This guy still thinks he can conquer a new world with a mirror and a hairbrush to achieve his end.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 24, 2018, 08:32:14 PM
picture sez it all really...



Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: JayH on November 25, 2018, 12:53:55 PM
Jay in a city like Kiev of near 3 million people sure a few thousand even in bad times will have money to go shop a little bit. They will buy the odd few items. This is not the majority though. Both Donna Pedro & Krimster have told you that most Ukrainians are poor in general. Statistics, news reports and girls I have met have backed this up.

I know there was a time about a decade ago when we in thd west hit recession due to the credit crunch, etc. At that point many in the west weren't doing too well and Ukrainians by comparison weren't doing too badly. Since then their economy has crashed, civil war has erupted, inflation had gone up - they are back towards the bad old days of the nineties. Meanwhile much off western society is now getting on quite decently compared to credit crunch times of a decade ago.

A decade ago people I remember on here were saying the same thing as you now are - that Ukrainians are now quite wealthy and live a comparable life to us. They may have done for a while but now I'm pretty sure matters have returned most of them to a poor life style.

I am following up again on some of this -- as the post above is so wrong on many fronts.
In particular I want to elaborate on what I wrote earlier (this is all a waste of time to attempt to educate the idiot )
The TC exposure is so tiny - really a waste to even bother pointing that out.
 
In Kyiv -there are areas and shops that are more Knightsbridge or 5th Avenue with retail prices to make you squirm-- but -that does not stop a girl looking!
In Ukraine --Black Friday has become a serious event for retailers and consumers  and that is why all the hyper activity over these last few days .The picture painted by the idiot TC is so far from reality that is is a complete and utter joke.
Today -I was again at numerous stores and centres --the largest which is super king size even by US standards  --which sells near enough anything you can think of with a huge range -- cars lined up waiting to get into the large dedicated car park --it's own bus stop etc. Super busy and people buying what you would see anywhere at this type of  store !
Now that also goes for each and every centre and store we visited all the way to closing time.The demographic covered all.
So -- people are spending money ( the black economy is larger than the official one in Ukraine)

There is no dispute that many people are short of money in Ukraine-- and I am not disputing that point--  but the idiot Trenchcoat chooses to believe he is a king compared to Ukrainians who  he has repeatedly said are as poor as a church mouse or whatever_)   and even in the post quoted above -- attempts to quote words from a few that are misleading-to say the least ( the 2 quoted have spent how many days in Ukraine in the last 5 years--what is it 10  or 15 and all by the K man a few months ago).

In summary -- what I am seeing now is not that much different to much more affluent countries ( who also have people with little disposable income)  -- and where Walmart level shopping is the norm -- and not 5th Avenue ! :)
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: SteveInBoston on November 25, 2018, 01:20:59 PM
I am in Vienna right now, but was in Kyiv last week.

It is interesting to see how popular Black Friday has caught on.  My wife-to-be got a promotion message from her bank - install apple pay on her phone and all purchases on Black Friday weekend with her bank card via apple pay will get 5-25% discount, plus cash back incentives. 

I even got a black friday promo code from Allo.ua, which I signed up for just out of curiosity (I was looking for a cell phone last week).

I noticed consumerism in Ukraine is similar to South Korea - people will spend 1/2 month or more salary on name brand items that are in fashion.  Add in a discount event like black friday and...wow. 

I also noticed that on Saturday and Sunday some stores were promoting "Black Discount", not wanting to mention "Friday". :D

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 25, 2018, 02:11:36 PM
jayh

would you like cheese to go along with that WHINE of yours?

what you’re observing in kyiv is not new
I used to shop at walmart type stores in kyiv in the early 2000s and even been in the “Tiplitsa”
I hated shopping for things like furniture in Ukraine
only shopping I liked was in the outdoor markets like Kurazh Bazar

but these are just trendy little details
regarding the degree that western commercialization has penetrated Ukraine

if you look at the underlying economic advantage WMs have in Ukraine
then nothing has really changed very significantly in the last 10 years

search on Google for
ukraine gdp per capita 2017

and you’ll see that Ukraine is at the same spot it was 10 yr ago
whereas in a really swell country like the USA it has increased by 25% during this same period

ergo, economic advantage of WMs is INCREASING
Ukraine economy is going to take a BIG hit in 2019 when NorthStream opens
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: jone on November 25, 2018, 02:20:48 PM
jayh

would you like cheese to go along with that WHINE of yours?

what you’re observing in kyiv is not new
I used to shop at walmart type stores in kyiv in the early 2000s and even been in the “Tiplitsa”
I hated shopping for things like furniture in Ukraine
only shopping I liked was in the outdoor markets like Kurazh Bazar

but these are just trendy little details
regarding the degree that western commercialization has penetrated Ukraine

if you look at the underlying economic advantage WMs have in Ukraine
then nothing has really changed very significantly in the last 10 years

search on Google for
ukraine gdp per capita 2017

and you’ll see that Ukraine is at the same spot it was 10 yr ago
whereas in a really swell country like the USA it has increased by 25% during this same period

ergo, economic advantage of WMs is INCREASING
Ukraine economy is going to take a BIG hit in 2019 when NorthStream opens

Kyiv is a helluva lot different than the rest of the country.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on November 25, 2018, 02:38:16 PM
"Kyiv is a helluva lot different than the rest of the country."

sadly, true...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: rwd123 on November 25, 2018, 02:40:38 PM
Kyiv is a helluva lot different than the rest of the country.
Further, the center of Kyiv is different to the rest of the country. It's almost like comparing the City of London to the rest of the UK.

I was talking business with a friend in Kyiv last week. She said it's harder to get rich people to spend than it was a few years ago (i.e., before 2014). Black Friday is popular because a) status is valued and it provides an opportunity to buy status on the cheap, and b) saving money matters to most people.

Just because the majority of people in Ukraine are poor does not mean they are looking to move, any more than the majority of Britons are not wealthy bankers, traders, entrepreneurs, etc. and looking to migrate. People are creatures of habit and generally comfortable with what is familiar to them.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: JayH on November 26, 2018, 12:56:58 AM
Kyiv is a helluva lot different than the rest of the country.

My specific reference of Kyiv was because it related to the TC post and what he "thinks"he saw.

Up market stores are not confined to Kyiv -- eg Odesa has plenty -- and in virtually every city of any size across Ukraine has stores  of many well known brands.
The growth of western style shopping centres right across Ukraine  has been substantial over the last 4 years ( despite everything) and is a reality that reflects the changes happening in Ukraine.

Going back some years -I mused in a thread about the number of large flat screen TV's I used to see being  carried across the road heading for the bus stop --these days --it is across the car park to a car !!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 26, 2018, 12:29:13 PM
Geez... of all the weeks to go to Ukraine.... I pick the week Russia attacks them and parliament wants to institute martial law.

This should be fun...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: jone on November 26, 2018, 12:40:56 PM
Yeah. 

Was just banging my head against the desk thinking how stupid it would be to go to the coast of the Black Sea right now.  Although Russia will probably be a lot quieter than Ukraine.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: SteveInBoston on November 26, 2018, 02:28:11 PM
BB, you are headed to Kyiv and will stay there, correct?   The latest news is martial law to be implemented in territories bordering Russia, the Azov Sea and Black Sea.

I am flying back to Kyiv tomorrow.  Then 2 days in Poltava Oblast, then on to....Donetsk Oblast.  Fun.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 26, 2018, 03:08:52 PM
BB, you are headed to Kyiv and will stay there, correct?   The latest news is martial law to be implemented in territories bordering Russia, the Azov Sea and Black Sea.

I am flying back to Kyiv tomorrow.  Then 2 days in Poltava Oblast, then on to....Donetsk Oblast.  Fun.
Yea... I just boarded to plane. This should be interesting.  Maybe I’ll run into you in Kiev or Poltava...lol. The duchess’ family owns a hotel in Poltava. We may go there for the weekend if everything works out.... 

Or I may be alone under my bed trying to hide from the Russian Invasion...

Seriously though.. how bad can martial law be?  I once lived in a country that was occupied by a foreign military and it wasn’t bad... but, then again... I was the foreign military...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GQBlues on November 26, 2018, 03:25:05 PM
...
Seriously though.. how bad can martial law be?  I once lived in a country that was occupied by a foreign military and it wasn’t bad... but, then again... I was the foreign military...

 :rolleyes:

Seriously, have a nice and safe trip! Eyes wide open, baby!

If you're interested, do write a trip report, sans any details you may want to skip...Also, you can write a T/R void of any responses here, if you so desire...

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?board=60.0
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on November 26, 2018, 03:46:32 PM
Seriously though.. how bad can martial law be? 


You're an American and Ukraine needs powerful friends right now. Creating an international incident with you will piss off Americans and America will be less likely to help Ukraine should they get invaded. Don't sweat it, you'll be fine.....but just in case I'm wrong, I hope you brought that postage paid, self addressed body bag with you so the authorities can mail you home.

Don't let your girl know you have fears about what is going on. Focus on her and enjoy the moment.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: LAman on November 26, 2018, 05:11:50 PM
BB, you are headed to Kyiv and will stay there, correct?   The latest news is martial law to be implemented in territories bordering Russia, the Azov Sea and Black Sea.

I am flying back to Kyiv tomorrow.  Then 2 days in Poltava Oblast, then on to....Donetsk Oblast.  Fun.


Martial law only in the 10 oblasts bordering Russia (also Transniestra)and the Sea's
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: jone on November 26, 2018, 05:54:47 PM
BB, you are headed to Kyiv and will stay there, correct?   The latest news is martial law to be implemented in territories bordering Russia, the Azov Sea and Black Sea.

I am flying back to Kyiv tomorrow.  Then 2 days in Poltava Oblast, then on to....Donetsk Oblast.  Fun.

Right,

An American going to the Donetsk Oblast.   Have you watched the Vice News episode whereby the reporter gets hauled off to someone's basement?  Have you really thought this through?   Donetsk is ruled by a bunch of thugs right now.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: JayH on November 26, 2018, 10:25:26 PM
Right,

An American going to the Donetsk Oblast.   Have you watched the Vice News episode whereby the reporter gets hauled off to someone's basement?  Have you really thought this through?   Donetsk is ruled by a bunch of thugs right now.

Without considering the potential of the current situation -- I wrote recently that areas of the Donetsk Oblast quite close to the frontline   are remarkably normal in the everday life sense.
Some that were temporarily under Russian occupation ( with all the scars) people are going about their daily business .

That in no way is intended to encourage anyone not savvy to be there at this time.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: SteveInBoston on November 27, 2018, 01:23:11 AM
I’ll be in Donetsk Oblast, on the Ukrainian side, not Donetsk, and not (hopefully) near the border. 

BB, perhaps we can meet, but I think you'll be at KBP airport?  We will arrive at Zhuliany at 16:30 from Bratislava.

Good luck and safe journeys!  Do write a TR if you get a chance.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 27, 2018, 01:58:01 AM
I’ll be in Donetsk Oblast, on the Ukrainian side, not Donetsk, and not (hopefully) near the border. 

BB, perhaps we can meet, but I think you'll be at KBP airport?  We will arrive at Zhuliany at 16:30 from Bratislava.

Good luck and safe journeys!  Do write a TR if you get a chance.

Thanks!

Yea, I’ll be at KBP. I’m in Vienna now and about to take off.

I may end up flying down to Zaporizhia later in the week if Kiev doesn’t work out as planned.  Since my girl won’t be in Kiev until tomorrow, I managed to squeeze in another date this evening (no WMVM vs. WOVO lectures please)

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 27, 2018, 02:02:39 AM
:rolleyes:

Seriously, have a nice and safe trip! Eyes wide open, baby!

If you're interested, do write a trip report, sans any details you may want to skip...Also, you can write a T/R void of any responses here, if you so desire...

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?board=60.0

Thanks GQ!

I will do a trip report sans comments later... I’d like to share without everyone picking apart every detail apart!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: SteveInBoston on November 27, 2018, 03:10:15 AM
Interesting.  We we're in Vienna yesterday, waiting 2 hours for the warning strike to end to take our train to Bratislava.  Leave it up to the Austrians to first, announce and plan a strike, and then strike between 12:00 to 14:00, precisely.  At 14:00 the first train rolled into the station, followed by the others.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: SteveInBoston on November 27, 2018, 08:16:53 AM
Landed in Kyiv Zhuliany.  No problems, only danger is sister-in-law-to-be's driving...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 27, 2018, 08:35:22 AM
Much ado about nothing...

It seems like business as usual around here.  In general, I’m kind of underwhelmed here.  This is just like any big city... nice malls with everything... I am getting by just fine.  Maybe it’s not a good deal here, but I hired a guy to be my personal driver for $20 an hour.  He will take me around and sit and wait for me... he’s a good tour guide and, hey... I’m helping the local economy. 

My aparment is nice and modern... no complaints so far...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: rwd123 on November 27, 2018, 12:59:21 PM
Maybe it’s not a good deal here, but I hired a guy to be my personal driver for $20 an hour. 
It's not a deal, it's a rip off. Just use Uber whenever you need to travel, or get around on foot/metro (8UAH per trip ~ 30 cents).
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 27, 2018, 02:16:09 PM
$20 is theoretically a rip off, but if BB is getting decent info to speed up his knowledge of Kiev & the driver is waiting it could be worth if to BB. I get the impression money is not much of an object to BB. Often FSW want guys to 'lead' which even with the resources of the internet is not easy these days if you don't know where you are, lol.

On the return trip to Borispol airport on my first trip I didn't have enough ghrivna's left to hand when trting to get a taxi fron thd hotel. It was too early in the morning & all the cash exchanges would have been shut & there were no nearby cash machines around. So I offered the guy £20 for the journey, he eagerly accepted & double checked at least once to confirm what I said is what he thought I said (maybe my reputation had already spread ;D ). For me it was partly an experiment as well as convience. It told me that money speaks out there and people will be pretty enthuiastic to what is just a few extra $ or £ out there - a relatively insignificant sum to us in the big scheme of things but worth a lot more to them. I didn't mind the extra so much it highlighted how poor they are out there and helping them out with a few extra quid is really appreciated. He no doubt ate well on me that evening.

That said I would usually use apps these days to get a cheap fare as I like to get stuff cheap and many a taxi driver can also be shysters. Watch them with care.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 27, 2018, 03:00:54 PM
Well, I would say my first day in Kiev was a smashing success!

First, I’m trying to figure out if people on this forum are out of touch or were just f***ing with me on the beard thing. As a beard owner, I couldn’t help but notice beards are just as popular in Kiev as they are in the US... maybe even more popular... and a lot of these guys with beards had cute girlfriends too.  “Nuf said.

As for me and my beard, we had a good day. I rushed to take a shower and get to the date I had set for the afternoon.  The girl said I took too long and said she had to go to work, so she wanted to reschedule for tomorrow.  I called another girl to confirm our date (as I was triple booked) and she couldn’t make it until way later. I called another girl to set something up.  I set a date with her... immediately the second girl tried calling me to get out original date time back, but I had to tell her “no” because I already had a date for tonight.

I would have sh*t of my date cancelled after all this BS... I was beginning to wonder if I will ever get my first date in Ukraine.

Anyway, we met at Independence Square, then went to the mall there before eating dinner at Mafia.  After dinner, we got in an Uber and went back to my apartment.  I clearing my calendar and spending the rest of the week with this lovely gal.  She is 25, never married and no kids... pretty much the exact girl people said I would never have a chance with. It’s going to be a great week!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 27, 2018, 06:28:54 PM
Think the beard advice is just a playing if safe thing , it's probably not a deal breaker for many women if  the right guy has one I'm thinking.

Where are you sourcing your girls from BB? You seem to be bringing them up pretty quick. Are you still considering meeting the 'duchess' who you had planned to meet tomorrow?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 27, 2018, 08:53:02 PM
Think the beard advice is just a playing if safe thing , it's probably not a deal breaker for many women if  the right guy has one I'm thinking.

Where are you sourcing your girls from BB? You seem to be bringing them up pretty quick. Are you still considering meeting the 'duchess' who you had planned to meet tomorrow?
I met these girls on fdating and UkraineDate.  Many of them are willing to give out their phone number after one or two exchanges.

I haven’t decided on the dutchess yet!  Her plane will be landing in five hours...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: JayH on November 28, 2018, 12:04:41 AM
I met these girls on fdating and UkraineDate.  Many of them are willing to give out their phone number after one or two exchanges.

I haven’t decided on the dutchess yet!  Her plane will be landing in five hours...

So--back to the thread title and what you are telling girls?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 28, 2018, 12:21:42 AM
So--back to the thread title and what you are telling girls?

I tell them.. “I met this girl online and I thought we really had a connection, so I bought a plane ticket and made plans to see her.  Unfortunately, after a lot of talking I discovered that it wasn’t going to work out with her.  I already purchased my plane ticket, so I decided to go to Ukraine anyway, even though I’m not going to see anyone in particular anymore.  If you are free during the next few days, I would love to meet you”

It works like a charm, and it’s 100% true... I guess after pages and pages of discussion in this thread, I finally answered my own question!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: rwd123 on November 28, 2018, 12:50:04 AM
and it’s 100% true...
(http://i.imgflip.com/1m5k7r.jpg) (http://imgflip.com/i/1m5k7r)
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on November 28, 2018, 02:44:54 PM
Seriously though.. how bad can martial law be?  I once lived in a country that was occupied
by a foreign military and it wasn’t bad... but, then again... I was the foreign military...

It could be pretty bad, but I doubt that there will be any problems in or near Kiev.
If you see a Russian tank rolling down the street, I would make a note to cut my
trip short.

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on November 28, 2018, 02:51:07 PM
I tell them.. “I met this girl online and I thought we really had a connection, so I bought a plane ticket and made plans to see her.  Unfortunately, after a lot of talking I discovered that it wasn’t going to work out with her.  I already purchased my plane ticket, so I decided to go to Ukraine anyway, even though I’m not going to see anyone in particular anymore.  If you are free during the next few days, I would love to meet you”

It works like a charm, and it’s 100% true... I guess after pages and pages of discussion in this thread, I finally answered my own question!

In my opinion, you've volunteered too much information too early. This is about her not the
previous girl. That is an excellent thing to say after she brings it up. 

How about this instead:

I saw your photo and was captivated by your smile, I want to meet you for coffee to
see if I can make you smile even more.

Pishi!

The Brown Bearded One



Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GQBlues on November 28, 2018, 05:45:42 PM
In my opinion, you've volunteered too much information too early. This is about her not the
previous girl. That is an excellent thing to say after she brings it up. 

How about this instead:

I saw your photo and was captivated by your smile, I want to meet you for coffee to
see if I can make you smile even more.

Pishi!
The Brown Bearded One

Sorry Bill...I kinda like what BB said although I agree it was too verbose...

If asked, why not just be straight.

If the following question is - 'Why are you in Ukraine?' - 'I have an opportunity to be in Ukraine and would like to meet people and explore further opportunity to possibly meet someone whom I can have a mutual interest with to pursue possible lasting relationship with.'

"Is that the only reason why you came to Ukraine"?: If the reason is such, then just respond 'yes'. If not, 'say it didn't work out with a gal I met online. It isn't a loss. We were just not compatible. This is reality.'

'Does this means you'll meet someone else besides me?'. 'That depends in how we spent the next few moments together.'

Then just look directly at her. If she fussed, end the drama. She ain't the one. Be gracious.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 28, 2018, 06:29:20 PM
Sorry Bill...I kinda like what BB said although I agree it was too verbose...

If asked, why not just be straight.

If the following question is - 'Why are you in Ukraine?' - 'I have an opportunity to be in Ukraine and would like to meet people and explore further opportunity to possibly meet someone whom I can have a mutual interest with to pursue possible lasting relationship with.'

"Is that the only reason why you came to Ukraine"?: If the reason is such, then just respond 'yes'. If not, 'say it didn't work out with a gal I met online. It isn't a loss. We were just not compatible. This is reality.'

'Does this means you'll meet someone else besides me?'. 'That depends in how we spent the next few moments together.'

Then just look directly at her. If she fussed, end the drama. She ain't the one. Be gracious.
I know it sounds a but verbose, but... this was a refinement after a few tries. With shorter answers, there were always too many follow up questions.  This answer seemed to shut the girls up.  Also, I was using this explanation before I even got here.  This “line” is much better than the alternative.  Can you imagine telling a girl you are coming to Ukraine to see her for a week  after chatting with her for five minutes? That would make you look like a nutcase!

The funny thing is, I used to think that someday I would be some kind of guru on this forum... imparting my advice to the next generation of noobs.  Well, if things keep going the way they are, this will never happen.  I just sent my girl home in a car (second night in a row).  She’s coming over tomorrow and staying with me for the weekend.  I may end up with the first girl I ever dated in Ukraine... so much for gaining experience!

As much as I am hesitant to “buy the first pair of Ukrainian jeans I try on”, I’m tired of the game.. tired of looking for “a little better”.  This girl has everything on my checklist in spades.  If things continue in the right direction with this girl... I think she may be a keeper.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: jone on November 28, 2018, 06:40:17 PM
Maybe I'm stealing thunder from your (potential) trip report.  But I'm trying to figure out if you ever met the gal who's family seemed like the mafia.   The one that was on a short vacation prior to meeting you?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 28, 2018, 07:37:56 PM
Maybe I'm stealing thunder from your (potential) trip report.  But I'm trying to figure out if you ever met the gal who's family seemed like the mafia.   The one that was on a short vacation prior to meeting you?

Lol, no...

I was set to meet her on Wednesday, but I ended up hooking up with a different girl on Tuesday night, so I sent the rich girl a very nice “thanks, but no thanks” letter. She took it well. I also cancelled a date with a girl I set something up with on Thursday.  This girl went apesh*t.. She went on a tirade, calling me a jerk and a liar... oh, well.

The funny thing is the rich girl actually lives in my same aparment building and knows where I am (she helped me set this place up).  This morning I had a knock on my door. I looked through the peephole and saw a hot blonde girl through the peephole... and it looked a lot like the rich girl.  I opened the door and the girl said something in Russian... acted like she knocked on the wrong door.  She just smiled and walked away.  Maybe it was the dutchess wanting to check me out... it all happened so quickly, so I guess I will never know...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on November 28, 2018, 08:11:58 PM
Sorry Bill...I kinda like what BB said although I agree it was too verbose...

If asked, why not just be straight.

If the following question is - 'Why are you in Ukraine?' - 'I have an opportunity to be in Ukraine and would like to meet people and explore further opportunity to possibly meet someone whom I can have a mutual interest with to pursue possible lasting relationship with.'


Yes, I agree absolutely, it's an excellent answer when asked.

I wouldn't volunteer explaining why you are there in the initial contact. In the initial contact I would
make it all about the girl you are contacting and nothing else.

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 28, 2018, 09:25:47 PM
Yes, I agree absolutely, it's an excellent answer when asked.

I wouldn't volunteer explaining why you are there in the initial contact. In the initial contact I would
make it all about the girl you are contacting and nothing else.
Every man has his own style. This worked for me. It helped weed out girls who may have an issue with this and went straight to a date with others.

I had four girls immediately respond with “Give me a call when you are in town. My number is.....”

There’s such an abundance of available women... you can make a sh*tload if mistakes (at least online) and still come out on top.  If things don’t work out with this girl, I have 10+ girls I can set something up with next month (after I come up with a good excuse... (keep an eye out for my thread “How to explain why you went to Ukraine and didn’t visit a girl you promised, without lying”)... or I can just start over.  I’ll figure that out later if things go south with this current girl.

On another note... the music video channel here plays a lot more Cardi B and Niki Minaj than they do in the US... there’s no escaping them!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GQBlues on November 28, 2018, 09:48:03 PM
Of course now you need to know you’re about to be elevated to what is known in the world of MOB as the ‘One Week Wonder’. It’s all good really. That moniker used to be a derogatory term but I would have you know there used to be a member here who named himself as such intentionally to mock his detractors. Matter of fact, the irony is many of his detractors actually flamed out of their marriages while he became one of the MOB success stories.

Enjoy the silence, man.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 28, 2018, 10:24:08 PM
Of course now you need to know you’re about to be elevated to what is known in the world of MOB as the ‘One Week Wonder’.
Too funny!

This reminds me of when I graduated from Aiborne school in the Army.

I was proud for about 2 minutes... then was reminded I was just a “Five Jump Chump”

I’m sure by the time I could possibly earn any “steet cred” around here, forums won’t even exist anymore.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on November 29, 2018, 12:22:25 AM
I was set to meet her on Wednesday, but I ended up hooking up with a different girl on Tuesday night, so I sent the rich girl a very nice “thanks, but no thanks” letter. She took it well.


Interesting turn of events. The girl that was worth travelling thousands of miles for is now a girl now worth seeing. Time will tell if the girl you're currently seeing is perfect or maybe another girl will come along and make you forget about this one.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 29, 2018, 06:19:46 AM
Interesting turn of events. The girl that was worth travelling thousands of miles for is now a girl now worth seeing. Time will tell if the girl you're currently seeing is perfect or maybe another girl will come along and make you forget about this one.
She had to go to work today, but she is coming over tonight (of course).

She just sent me a text telling me her mother and grandmother both want to meet me.  I’m guessing that is a good sign!?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: JayH on November 29, 2018, 09:36:44 AM
She had to go to work today, but she is coming over tonight (of course).

She just sent me a text telling me her mother and grandmother both want to meet me.  I’m guessing that is a good sign!?

Given the beard she may be lining you up for babushka !
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on November 29, 2018, 09:53:06 AM
She had to go to work today, but she is coming over tonight (of course).

She just sent me a text telling me her mother and grandmother both want to meet me.  I’m guessing that is a good sign!?

Definitely a good sign if you want to get serious with the girl. Be a gentleman and treat mom and grandma with respect and they'll love you.  Buy gifts  store showing up and offer your hand for a handshake. Use both your hands to shake their one. It's better that way.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on November 29, 2018, 10:12:18 AM
Be sure to maintain eye contact when offered a handshake and do not offer to shake hands at the threshold - wait until you are in ;)
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 29, 2018, 10:15:48 AM
Given the beard she may be lining you up for babushka !
Believe it or not, the girl says she doesn’t want babushka!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 29, 2018, 10:17:30 AM
Definitely a good sign if you want to get serious with the girl. Be a gentleman and treat mom and grandma with respect and they'll love you.  Buy gifts  store showing up and offer your hand for a handshake. Use both your hands to shake their one. It's better that way.
I already had her give a box of chocolates to each of them on my behalf.  I guess that made a good impression!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GQBlues on November 29, 2018, 10:28:55 AM
Believe it or not, the girl says she doesn’t want babushka!

 ::)

I think maybe Google led you astray. Babushka referred to means old woman/grandma. Not scarf.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on November 29, 2018, 11:09:36 AM
Believe it or not, the girl says she doesn’t want babushka!

Ask her if she wants a dedushka instead.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 29, 2018, 11:11:45 AM
She likely doesn't need another one, she found a foreign one already.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 29, 2018, 11:17:44 AM
First, I’m trying to figure out if people on this forum are out of touch or were just f***ing with me on the beard thing. As a beard owner, I couldn’t help but notice beards are just as popular in Kiev as they are in the US... maybe even more popular... and a lot of these guys with beards had cute girlfriends too.  “Nuf said.

I recently returned from 2 months in Russia and Ukraine, with half that time spent in Kyiv.  I don't think you are correct on the beards.  I saw a lot of unshaven men but relatively few with beards (other than priests and monks), far less than among hipsters here.  Most of the bearded men I saw were foreigners. 


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on November 29, 2018, 12:13:36 PM
Too funny!

This reminds me of when I graduated from Aiborne school in the Army.

I was proud for about 2 minutes... then was reminded I was just a “Five Jump Chump”

I’m sure by the time I could possibly earn any “street cred” around here, forums won’t even exist anymore.

If you find the girl on the first Trip then that's great. A one week wonder is a guy who meets
a girl in a week and then marries her. So don't do that, if you think she might be the girl
schedule another trip to go see her. Continue being cautiously optimistic and keep moving
things forward.

I visited Angel Eyes 4 times in Russia and she came to see me twice and then I married her
instead of sending her home.

Udachi!

Bill
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 29, 2018, 03:35:37 PM

I recently returned from 2 months in Russia and Ukraine, with half that time spent in Kyiv.  I don't think you are correct on the beards.  I saw a lot of unshaven men but relatively few with beards (other than priests and monks), far less than among hipsters here.  Most of the bearded men I saw were foreigners.
It doesn’t matter if you are remembering back about two years in Ukraine and Russia.  I am here now... and you are conflating what is going on in Russia.  I have no clue what they are doing there.  I am specifically talking about Kyiv.  Maybe nobody has a beard in Moscow or Odessa or Lviv... I can only speak for Kyiv.

I have this little game I play when I am walking around... When I see a man with a beard, I say to myself “one” and then I count every unshaven man I see and see how high I can count until I see another man with a beard.  I have only gotten to ten twice. I have done this in neighborhoods far away from the touristy places like the City Center.  I would have to say that I pay WAAAAY more attention to this than anyone else.  I am not just making a casual observation.  I am actually counting... and I have not seen a single person I thought was a priest or monk... these are young guys with beautiful women hanging off their arms.  It is so blaringly obvious that the people on this forum are dead wrong about the beard situation, that I wanted to start taking pictures or videos of people just to post on here... but whatever... be wrong, I don’t give a crap.  If I showed you video, people would make more excuses as to why the video is wrong.  How about this... watch Ukrainian TV... look at Ukrainian ads... men have beards... I have a beard and I got the girl... and I had over a dozen backups who wanted to meet me... and they knew about the beard.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 29, 2018, 03:48:24 PM
If you find the girl on the first Trip then that's great. A one week wonder is a guy who meets
a girl in a week and then marries her. So don't do that, if you think she might be the girl
schedule another trip to go see her. Continue being cautiously optimistic and keep moving
things forward.

I visited Angel Eyes 4 times in Russia and she came to see me twice and then I married her
instead of sending her home.

Udachi!

Bill

I have no intentions of rushing anything.

I will fly to Europe in late December and we will spend a week together somewhere for New Years.  We discussed Madrid or possibly Paris.  This girl doesn’t want to feel like a mooch, so she will pay her own way.

If things go well, we will spend another two weeks togther in Kyiv in January.

Then I will be in The Netherlands for almost three months.  She said she wants to come visit me for a week or so (if we are still togther).

Then in April, I will return to Kyiv for another two weeks and spend time with her.

If all goes well, I will return to Kyiv for two months this summer.

To some, it may seem like we are getting ahead of ourselves by planning out so far.  The truth is, we both have busy schedules and recognize if we don’t plan things out now, it will never happen.  We agreed that we will still take things one day at a time and these travel plans are in pencil, but we have a solid plan going forward if we agree to continue to pursue a relationship.

We will asses everything this summer and see if we both want to start the visa paperwork.  Of course, we will have another 90 days after she gets here to make sure we want to go through with getting married.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GQBlues on November 29, 2018, 03:56:49 PM
...I have this little game I play when I am walking around... When I see a man with a beard, I say to myself “one” and then I count every unshaven man I see and see how high I can count until I see another man with a beard.  I have only gotten to ten twice. I have done this in neighborhoods far away from the touristy places like the City Center.  I would have to say that I pay WAAAAY more attention to this than anyone else.  I am not just making a casual observation.  I am actually counting... and I have not seen a single person I thought was a priest or monk... these are young guys with beautiful women hanging off their arms.  It is so blaringly obvious that the people on this forum are dead wrong about the beard situation, that I wanted to start taking pictures or videos of people just to post on here... but whatever... be wrong, I don’t give a crap.  If I showed you video, people would make more excuses as to why the video is wrong.  How about this... watch Ukrainian TV... look at Ukrainian ads... men have beards... I have a beard and I got the girl... and I had over a dozen backups who wanted to meet me... and they knew about the beard.

BB-

Doesn't really matter who is wrong, right or whatever regarding your beard. You already made the point you're sticking to it so win/lose or draw, your call. Move on from that regardless what other people say about it.

Just have fun out there...don't mind any of us on the board for a while... :devil:
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: rwd123 on November 29, 2018, 04:21:15 PM
I would have to say that I pay WAAAAY more attention to this than anyone else.
You are familiar with the Baader–Meinhof phenomenon, yes? Though it is likely to cause you cognitive dissonance.

http://www.gravityideas.com/thinking/frequency-illusion

Good luck with your relationship but you are blinded by cognitive bias. If you type "ukraine male model" into a Google image search you'll see what is common.

I was once mistaken for a priest on a train, partly because I had a beard at the time. Sadly no donations were forthcoming.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 29, 2018, 05:01:18 PM
It doesn’t matter if you are remembering back about two years in Ukraine and Russia.  I am here now... and you are conflating what is going on in Russia.  I have no clue what they are doing there.  I am specifically talking about Kyiv.  Maybe nobody has a beard in Moscow or Odessa or Lviv... I can only speak for Kyiv.


No, I was in Kyiv for around five weeks, coming home not even a month ago.  My better half is a Kyianin, I studied there, and lived there.  In the time I was there, I mostly took trams and the metro - cheap and quicker than cars/taxis.  I was all over the city, not just where tourists congregate.  I was cheek to jowl with Ukrainians daily.  I would have noticed if there were a lot of men with beards, because it would have been unusual for Ukraine.  Yes, I saw a few - a couple in museums, a personal trainer giving lessons (and he was from the FSU, not Ukraine).

Quote
I have this little game I play when I am walking around... When I see a man with a beard, I say to myself “one” and then I count every unshaven man I see and see how high I can count until I see another man with a beard.  I have only gotten to ten twice. I have done this in neighborhoods far away from the touristy places like the City Center.  I would have to say that I pay WAAAAY more attention to this than anyone else.  I am not just making a casual observation.  I am actually counting... and I have not seen a single person I thought was a priest or monk... these are young guys with beautiful women hanging off their arms.  It is so blaringly obvious that the people on this forum are dead wrong about the beard situation, that I wanted to start taking pictures or videos of people just to post on here... but whatever... be wrong, I don’t give a crap.  If I showed you video, people would make more excuses as to why the video is wrong.  How about this... watch Ukrainian TV... look at Ukrainian ads... men have beards... I have a beard and I got the girl... and I had over a dozen backups who wanted to meet me... and they knew about the beard.


Yes, but most of the men you are seeing are foreigners.  There is still a bias against beards in Ukraine, even in careers.  I'm not saying I never see them, but far, far less than in the West.  Of the ten men you saw, it is likely half were foreigners.


I agree with rwd123.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 29, 2018, 06:57:34 PM
The guys with beards are all Russian spies ;D

Sounds like it's not just Russians Ukraine is going to have to worry about but also your beard running amok BB :D

Seriously though when I asked the girl I was with last year about whether she prefered me clean shaven, stubble or beard she replied clean shaven.

Her reply was not an outright hate of beards but more a personal liking towards clen shaven. So I don't think it was a huge pet peeve of her of anything.

That said of this girl likes you a lot then she may not be bothered about it. Maybe she finds the difference intriguing. I think though that most UW probably prefer clean shaven but I don't think loads view beards as a major issue but probably more amother detail of a guy.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 29, 2018, 07:36:43 PM
You are familiar with the Baader–Meinhof phenomenon, yes? Though it is likely to cause you cognitive dissonance.

http://www.gravityideas.com/thinking/frequency-illusion

Good luck with your relationship but you are blinded by cognitive bias. If you type "ukraine male model" into a Google image search you'll see what is common.

I was once mistaken for a priest on a train, partly because I had a beard at the time. Sadly no donations were forthcoming.
Great article. I think some folks on here should take a look in the mirror and consider this.  I did... that’s why I started actually counting every man I saw. Who else can make that claim?  And, as predicted... I knew someone would say I went to the wrong neighborhoods.  I have stayed in two neighborhoods by girls I met ahead of time.  There are no tourists here... no attractions... just mostly working class Ukrainians.

I know it’s futile trying to change anyone’s mind on this... just like they will find evidence to support that I don’t have a chance with Ukrainian women, based on my beard and personality.... Fortunately, the sexy, 25 year old Ukrainian girl with two graduate degrees who was in my bed less than eight hours after I entered the country, would say differently.

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on November 29, 2018, 07:37:56 PM
Quote from: Boethius on Today at 01:17:44 PM

I recently returned from 2 months in Russia and Ukraine, with half that time spent in Kyiv.  I don't think you are correct on the beards.  I saw a lot of unshaven men but relatively few with beards (other than priests and monks), far less than among hipsters here.  Most of the bearded men I saw were foreigners.

- - - - - - - - - -

It doesn’t matter if you are remembering back about two years in Ukraine and Russia.  I am here now... and you are conflating what is going on in Russia.

My comment has nothing to do with beards.
Rather it is about reading comprehension.

Boe said she recently returned from 2 months . . . .
You then commented on what she remembered back 2 years ago.

Boe said she spent half of her 2 months in Kyiv.
You then commented that she was conflating what is going on in Russia.


Your written comments on Boe's posting remind me a lot of the Fake News that is presented constantly in USA.

i.e. A person states that it was sunny every day when they visited Miami in July 2017.

The Fake News then reports the person is hiding something and attempting to deceive because it rained almost every day in Seattle during July 2017.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on November 29, 2018, 07:40:32 PM
BB-

Doesn't really matter who is wrong, right or whatever regarding your beard. You already made the point you're sticking to it so win/lose or draw, your call. Move on from that regardless what other people say about it.

Just have fun out there...don't mind any of us on the board for a while... :devil:

Thanks for your advice and support!

Yea, I’m taking a break from this place.  I got much needed advice from everyone over the past few years and I scored a big victory this week.

I’ll try to get that trip report posted in awhile...

Hopefully, I won’t need much here for awhile... until I start needing advice with the visa process.

Peace out!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: rwd123 on November 29, 2018, 08:32:44 PM
Great article. I think some folks on here should take a look in the mirror and consider this.  I did... that’s why I started actually counting every man I saw. Who else can make that claim?
I don't think you read the article or comprehended the content. Because you were consciously looking for men with beards you saw them. It's a cognitive bias. If you think about orange cars you'll start seeing them everywhere.

I was most recently in Kyiv less than a week ago (returning with close to ten pounds of sirok!). Reflecting on the people I met, shop assistants, staff in restaurants, people on the streets, etc. I wouldn't say 10% or more had beards as you claim. Some yes, but far less. I've been to Moscow, Odessa and Lviv and other cities in the last three months and it has been the same.

There is still a cultural propensity in Eastern Europe/Russia for men to be clean shaven, moreso than in the West.

ML - the OP is obviously a dishonest individual, whether or not he's being honest here is guesswork.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on November 30, 2018, 09:13:26 AM
I know it’s futile trying to change anyone’s mind on this... just like they will find evidence to support that I don’t have a chance with Ukrainian women, based on my beard and personality.... Fortunately, the sexy, 25 year old Ukrainian girl with two graduate degrees who was in my bed less than eight hours after I entered the country, would say differently.

No one posted you didn't have a chance.  They posted there was a bias against beards.  I don't recall anyone posting anything about your personality.

So you met a girl approximately half your age, in an economically depressed country in a state of war, and, within 8 hours of first laying eyes on each other, she had hopped into your bed.  And you consider her marriage material.  At least we know why she didn't wish to introduce you to babushka.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 01, 2018, 04:18:14 PM
So you met a girl approximately half your age, in an economically depressed country in a state of war, and, within 8 hours of first laying eyes on each other, she had hopped into your bed.  And you consider her marriage material.  At least we know why she didn't wish to introduce you to babushka.

So what are you saying is the score here Boe?

What is the girl in it for? Passport out of a potential war zone? or just free gifts? or a bit of fun? or would she consider BB for a permanent relationship with perhaps children?

Clearly she has some reason to be with him.

What about BB is he seeing her as a realistic prospect for a permanent relationship? or has mission creep set in with a situation that has brought up the prospect of some good fun and time out living another life for a while?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on December 01, 2018, 10:11:10 PM
So what are you saying is the score here Boe?



Once again, Trench cannot grasp the subtle use of his native tongue...

Try READING Boethius' response and BB's post that elicited it ..




Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on December 02, 2018, 08:12:02 PM
My trip report is pending, but I thought I would close the loop on the whole saga with the duchess.

She sent me a text asking how it was going with the other girl on Friday afternoon. I told her “ok” and then asked her if she could go to the front desk if her apartment later on because I got her a couple gifts that I still wanted to give to her. Since we were staying in the same apartment building, I figured I could just drop it off.

She suggested that I just give it to her in person, then invited me to lunch at a place right by the apartment. The girl I was seeing had to work late and wouldn’t be by until 9:00 pm, so I figured, “Why not?”

So, when I entered the cafe, she was on the phone and put up her finger as to say “Just a minute”, so I sat there for five minutes while she finished.  She probably did it as payback for cancelling on her.

Anyway, she was drop dead gorgeous, just like her pictures.  She wore very nice clothes.. she had a mink coat and three rings with very large diamonds.  We had a great conversation and her English was much better than expected.  I really thought she was going to be a snobby primadonna, but she was very sweet and soft spoken... she was a class act.  She even offered to pay for lunch at the end.  When she reached in her wallet for money, I couldn’t help but notice a fat stack of crisp $100 bills next to her Ukrainian money. 

There is a mall and grocery store next to the apartments and she had some shopping to do, so she asked if I wanted to walk with her.  I had nowhere to be, so I agreed.  We spent a couple hours at the grocery store and some other stores.  She was really enjoyable to be with.  Again, very classy.

We finally finished and I walked her to her apartment entrance (she was one entrance away from me).  I have her a hug and said goodbye.

Ten minutes after I was back in my apartment, she sends me a text laughing because she forgot to get bottled water at the convenience store attached to out apartment.  I asked her if she wanted me to walk with her again to go get it.  She said no, and asked if I wouldn’t mind picking it up and bringing it back to her apartment.  I agreed.

I was really impressed with her apartment. The furniture was beautiful, as was the wallpaper and very nice woodwork and custom cabinetry.  She had some nice kitchen gadgets... her espresso maker is like $1,000 in the US (I almost bought the same one last year).

Anyway, in return for bringing her water, she cooked up a batch of this warm wine with fruit and spices (I forget what it is called).  We drank the wine together and she also fed me this dish she made with cheese and raisins. 

We were enjoying the conversation so much that she offered to make another batch of wine.  We drank that and she started giving me “advice” about how this other girl is all wrong for me and how I need a real woman.  She then told me she also had a date at 9 pm. She showed me a picture of the guy and asked to see my date.  I refused and she got upset... I was too nervous about her approaching this girl outside the apartment.

I finished my wine and saw it was getting close to 9 pm, so I told her I had to go.  She walked down with me (said she needed something at the store). I suspect she wanted to see the competition...

She sent me a couple texts after that, but I never saw her again...

If anyone is looking to meet a beautiful, classy rich girl, I know one in Ukraine...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: BillyB on December 02, 2018, 08:21:04 PM
She even offered to pay for lunch at the end.  When she reached in her wallet for money, I couldn’t help but notice a fat stack of crisp $100 bills next to her Ukrainian money. 


You didn't let her pay did you? Never let a woman pay for the meal.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on December 02, 2018, 08:27:59 PM
You didn't let her pay did you? Never let a woman pay for the meal.
Of course not!

She paid for all her shopping errand stuff though.  When I grabbed the bottles water for her, I also paid for that.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: jone on December 02, 2018, 09:48:43 PM
My trip report is pending, but I thought I would close the loop on the whole saga with the duchess.

She sent me a text asking how it was going with the other girl on Friday afternoon. I told her “ok” and then asked her if she could go to the front desk if her apartment later on because I got her a couple gifts that I still wanted to give to her. Since we were staying in the same apartment building, I figured I could just drop it off.

She suggested that I just give it to her in person, then invited me to lunch at a place right by the apartment. The girl I was seeing had to work late and wouldn’t be by until 9:00 pm, so I figured, “Why not?”

So, when I entered the cafe, she was on the phone and put up her finger as to say “Just a minute”, so I sat there for five minutes while she finished.  She probably did it as payback for cancelling on her.

Anyway, she was drop dead gorgeous, just like her pictures.  She wore very nice clothes.. she had a mink coat and three rings with very large diamonds.  We had a great conversation and her English was much better than expected.  I really thought she was going to be a snobby primadonna, but she was very sweet and soft spoken... she was a class act.  She even offered to pay for lunch at the end.  When she reached in her wallet for money, I couldn’t help but notice a fat stack of crisp $100 bills next to her Ukrainian money. 

There is a mall and grocery store next to the apartments and she had some shopping to do, so she asked if I wanted to walk with her.  I had nowhere to be, so I agreed.  We spent a couple hours at the grocery store and some other stores.  She was really enjoyable to be with.  Again, very classy.

We finally finished and I walked her to her apartment entrance (she was one entrance away from me).  I have her a hug and said goodbye.

Ten minutes after I was back in my apartment, she sends me a text laughing because she forgot to get bottled water at the convenience store attached to out apartment.  I asked her if she wanted me to walk with her again to go get it.  She said no, and asked if I wouldn’t mind picking it up and bringing it back to her apartment.  I agreed.

I was really impressed with her apartment. The furniture was beautiful, as was the wallpaper and very nice woodwork and custom cabinetry.  She had some nice kitchen gadgets... her espresso maker is like $1,000 in the US (I almost bought the same one last year).

Anyway, in return for bringing her water, she cooked up a batch of this warm wine with fruit and spices (I forget what it is called).  We drank the wine together and she also fed me this dish she made with cheese and raisins. 

We were enjoying the conversation so much that she offered to make another batch of wine.  We drank that and she started giving me “advice” about how this other girl is all wrong for me and how I need a real woman.  She then told me she also had a date at 9 pm. She showed me a picture of the guy and asked to see my date.  I refused and she got upset... I was too nervous about her approaching this girl outside the apartment.

I finished my wine and saw it was getting close to 9 pm, so I told her I had to go.  She walked down with me (said she needed something at the store). I suspect she wanted to see the competition...

She sent me a couple texts after that, but I never saw her again...

If anyone is looking to meet a beautiful, classy rich girl, I know one in Ukraine...

I'm sure you know it doesn't work like that:

I was corresponding with a great gal in Ukraine but had made up my mind that I liked another woman more.  I broke it off as gently as I could and still maintain contact with her.  However, I offered to introduce her to a friend of mine and she is mortally offended.   

To put it bluntly, she said her relationship was with me, and she would not be interested to date my friend.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on December 04, 2018, 09:45:46 PM
Anyway, in return for bringing her water, she cooked up a batch of this warm wine with fruit and spices (I forget what it is called).  We drank the wine together and she also fed me this dish she made with cheese and raisins. 

The drink was probably Ukrainian Kompot or Compote and it is non-alcoholic.

The cheese was Syrniki which is like Farmer's cheese in USA (but not easy to find) and a cousin of Ricotta  cheese.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on December 04, 2018, 09:48:22 PM
I would say you made a big mistake in spending this time with the duchess.

Your current gal is sure to find out about it (you will probably even tell her). 
She will never forgive you and will throw it up to you for eternity.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Nightwish on December 05, 2018, 03:17:47 AM
The drink was probably Ukrainian Kompot or Compote and it is non-alcoholic.

The cheese was Syrniki which is like Farmer's cheese in USA (but not easy to find) and a cousin of Ricotta  cheese.

I would think it was Glühwein as german calls it or in English mulled wine(?) (google helped me here)

I been treated to this several times in the wintertime in Ukraine, here in Sweden we add raisins and almonds and it's a typical Christmas drink, heated to perfection.

In Ukraine they seem to add other types of fruits, at least in 3 different homes this has been offered, so it's not just something local. But I have no idea what they call it there, here it's "Glögg"

Wikipedia says Russian calls it: глинтвейн

This post was composed with the help of google and wikipedia
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GQBlues on December 05, 2018, 05:03:12 AM
Never had warm sangria so methinks mulled wine. Cinnamon or maybe even nutmeg with a dose of apple/apple juice.

 
<snip>...Anyway, she was drop dead gorgeous, just like her pictures....

She even offered to pay for lunch at the end.  When she reached in her wallet for money, I couldn’t help but notice a fat stack of crisp $100 bills next to her Ukrainian money...

If anyone is looking to meet a beautiful, classy rich girl, I know one in Ukraine...

Why am I thinking ‘Trenchcoat’?  Might you mention if she’d consider U.K.?

Anyway, based on how you’ve become a feline tamer in Ukraine, it appears to me another peanut gallery tale is dispelled. Beard may soon find its popularity there sooner than later
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on December 05, 2018, 08:22:36 AM
I don’t know what you call the drink, but I know it has alcohol in it.

She made it in front of me and we finished off two bottles of Italian red wine in the process.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on December 05, 2018, 10:42:32 AM
The drink was probably Ukrainian Kompot or Compote and it is non-alcoholic.

The cheese was Syrniki which is like Farmer's cheese in USA (but not easy to find) and a cousin of Ricotta  cheese.

I've had the same hot wine with fruit and spices. It was suggested by others
on the forums that it was Compote but it wasn't. I can't remember the name
either.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on December 05, 2018, 01:27:26 PM
I can't remember the name either.
Nightwish is correct, it’s glintvein (глинтвейн), commonly referred to as glint (глинт). 

It's always made with a sweet wine (I've seen port and muscat used), and is lit on fire the first time, before drinking,  At parties, at some point, someone will pour a bottle of vodka into it, surreptitiously.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 05, 2018, 03:46:49 PM
We drank that and she started giving me “advice” about how this other girl is all wrong for me and how I need a real woman.  She then told me she also had a date at 9 pm. She showed me a picture of the guy and asked to see my date.  I refused and she got upset... I was too nervous about her approaching this girl outside the apartment.

I finished my wine and saw it was getting close to 9 pm, so I told her I had to go.  She walked down with me (said she needed something at the store). I suspect she wanted to see the competition...

Good for the other girl that you didn't show her photo. The duchess would probably have her tracked down and daddies 'friends' fix her up with a nice new pair of concrete shoes :ROFL:

She seems a pretty sharp operator that one.

Definately seems from your description she is among the wealthiest social group in Kiev society. One wonders what goes on behind the scenes to fund all of that lifestyle!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on December 05, 2018, 04:38:10 PM
Nightwish is correct, it’s glintvein (глинтвейн), commonly referred to as glint (глинт). 

It's always made with a sweet wine (I've seen port and muscat used), and is lit on fire the first time, before drinking,  At parties, at some point, someone will pour a bottle of vodka into it, surreptitiously.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
She used dry red wine and added honey and sugar.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on December 05, 2018, 05:50:13 PM
It’s still glint.

Either:
(a) she couldn’t find the proper wine and hence, used a cheap dry wine which she enhanced; or
(b)  she’s a hick.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 05, 2018, 06:02:37 PM
It’s still glint.

Either:
(a) she couldn’t find the proper wine and hence, used a cheap dry wine which she enhanced; or
(b)  she’s a hick.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

I doubt it's b). I doubt a hick would spend $1k on an espresso machine particularly in Ukraine. That would probably make most Ukrainian folk stomachs churn at how much money was spent on just one object, where even a fraction of that money they could sorely do with.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on December 05, 2018, 06:06:05 PM
You prove yet again you don’t understand Ukrainian or their mentality.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on December 05, 2018, 08:56:52 PM
I can’t believe we are having this discussion about the type of wine or the recipe. She told me the recipe explicitly calls for dry red wine. We went to a nice store with a very extensive wine selection and she picked out two bottles specifically to make this recipe.

I haven’t really been talking to her (I have another girl), but I will see if I can get her to tell me what the name of this wine drink is. 

She didn’t come across as a hick at all... more like a debutante.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on December 06, 2018, 12:05:02 AM
Mulled wines (glintvein in the FSU, known by other names in other countries), which is what you were served, is generally made with cheap wine because the spices and fruits added mean the undertones, the body, of a good wine, will be lost.  The best wines to use for glint are fruity and unoaked. 

Buying an expensive wine for glint is to show off, and in Ukraine, that screams hick.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: SteveInBoston on December 06, 2018, 01:05:08 AM
When I make mulled wine I use Franzia, $4 per liter.  They will sell no wine before it's time...to get packed in a box.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on December 07, 2018, 07:05:14 AM
When I make mulled wine I use Franzia, $4 per liter.  They will sell no wine before it's time...to get packed in a box.
Franzia is some pretty gross stuff.  I don’t even know if they can legally call it wine. My ex wife used to mix it with Sprite to make wine coolers... cheaper than Bartles & Jaymes I guess!  It looks like you found another way to make it drinkable.

Thank you for your support.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on December 21, 2018, 07:57:57 AM
one can only interpret the ensuing silence...
to mean that Mr Beard “crashed and burned” in Kyiv

sic transit
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: SteveInBoston on December 22, 2018, 04:37:38 AM
Not necessarily.  Per the title of this post, "how to visit many without lying", BB found the answers he needed and was successful.  It is ironic that he seemed to settle with the first girl he met, not even trying to meet the others, making the point moot.

He never did ask "how to meet the right woman", so I guess he'll figure that out on his own in the next few years.

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GenMish on December 22, 2018, 08:02:15 AM
Mulled wines (glintvein in the FSU, known by other names in other countries), which is what you were served, is generally made with cheap wine because the spices and fruits added mean the undertones, the body, of a good wine, will be lost.  The best wines to use for glint are fruity and unoaked. 

Buying an expensive wine for glint is to show off, and in Ukraine, that screams hick.

This post was composed without the aid of google.


I don't think I ever found a good wine in the FSU, so too cant understand using a good Italian wine for glint. I found good Champagne, beer and Vodka, but never a good wine. And don't get me started on Moldovan and Rumanian wines, I would rather drink cough syrup
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on December 22, 2018, 08:19:56 AM

I don't think I ever found a good wine in the FSU, so too cant understand using a good Italian wine for glint. I found good Champagne, beer and Vodka, but never a good wine. And don't get me started on Moldovan and Rumanian wines, I would rather drink cough syrup

They make good beer and wine in Kuban and Georgia  but 'Champagne' ? .....The climate's not right, surely ?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GenMish on December 22, 2018, 08:41:09 AM
They make good beer and wine in Kuban and Georgia  but 'Champagne' ? .....The climate's not right, surely ?


I wont admit it to my friends, but I like Sovetskoye Shampanskoye. Its like a nice dry Cava but made with Aligote. Aligote grapes are not as fragile as other grapes and can be grown in cold places like Russia.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on December 22, 2018, 08:49:50 AM
my father in law is Moldovan, and the Rancho Del Krimster has 3 large rows of Moldovan and local varieties of grapes
like German politics and sausage making, you REALLY don't want to see Moldovans making wine!
conditions must be sterile for fermentation to proceed smoothly so I'm not TOO worried by what I've seen
my father in law always held me in low regard a "rich kid" who "didn't know how to live on a farm"
then I built him a still, mostly out of parts I found in the barn, and what was missing I bought in one day at an outdoor plumbing market
when I showed him the still and we got it working together and made really good brandy and we both got totally drunk together
then we were best friends
and I don't think he's even mad that I sleep with his daughter any more!!

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on December 22, 2018, 08:53:34 AM
May be I truly am a 'snob' [ ;)  ] but as an ol' git .. it (  Shampanskoye) reminds me of Babycham

and What ever happened to THAT ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBthQyw7gkE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBthQyw7gkE)

 :puke:
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Jamesukjames on December 23, 2018, 07:56:58 AM
Krimster a picture of this still please.  I've seen and drunk the produce of many farm stills in France.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on December 23, 2018, 11:24:32 AM
sorry, the one and only photo came out too blurry
it's made from a pressure cooker 3/8 hole drilled, fitted a small threaded pipe this diameter after a bit of sanding
added pressure washers and bronze washers and threaded nuts on both sides - looks REALLY cool!
heat exchanger came from a 30 yr old dead air conditioner, all i need to do was make an adapter to fit the threaded pipe to the heat exchanger
after I pulled it from the old air conditioner
just plug it in, turn it on , and watch the brandy condense drop by drop out the heat exchanger - works great! cost me $40 to build!
totally blew away my father in law
 
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on December 23, 2018, 01:43:38 PM
 :ROFL:

You've made my evening, Krimster
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on December 23, 2018, 02:59:30 PM
cool!

forgot to mention, it's best to get a pressure cooker with the cheaper rotary temperature setting, BP of ethanol is 173 degrees F!
relied on father in law for the "mash" he has some "recipe" he hasn't shared
4 liters of mash yields almost one coke can full of distillate
we fermented the 4 liters in a water cooler bottle
I stretched a balloon over the mouth of the water bottle, and poked a tiny hole in the balloon with a pin
when the balloon starts to inflate it means fermentation is starting
when it deflates it means fermentation is done - time to go into the still!!

that's all it took!!
in Ukraine, this contraption would pay for itself within a week!!!

if only sexual gratification was as easy...
wait!  it is!!!


Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: DaveNY on December 23, 2018, 04:24:48 PM
May be I truly am a 'snob' [ ;)  ] but as an ol' git .. it (  Shampanskoye) reminds me of Babycham

and What ever happened to THAT ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBthQyw7gkE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBthQyw7gkE)

 :puke:

It's still around pick up a pack next time you're in a Tesco.

http://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/258444966
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on December 24, 2018, 01:25:35 AM
Hmm

It was 'relaunched' in 1997, 2001 , 2013.. and there's a big marketing push this year

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25302633
 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25302633)
I live near where it's made and believe me - this latest relaunch will fail, too ((

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on January 14, 2019, 07:32:23 AM
I guess people wanted a follow up?!

It's funny how my options were to fail miserably or be so pathetic that I stay with the first girl I meet, so I guess it doesn't matter what I say because people will use it as an excuse to insult me.

Well, to those who have been helpful, I appreciate you very much.  I spoke extensively with many women, I ended up meeting two of them and I am dating one of those two. I think it's important to note that these are not the first two women I have ever gone out with, just in Ukraine.  The girl I am with is thin, beautiful, smart, has two graduate degrees, and I enjoys lots of sex, just like me... Maybe thats because she is 25, but I guess maybe time will tell.

After I left Kyiv in early December, we continued to talk every day.  We ended up spending a week in Paris together for New Years.  She paid her own way so she wouldn't feel like she was using me.  We came back to Kyiv and got an apartment together for two weeks (hers is under renovation and she has been living with her grandma). I leave for Amsterdam for in a couple days for a coupe months and then we will live together in her apartment for a couple weeks before I return to the US.

Life has already assumed a normal pace with us.  I feel kind of like a normal married couple.  She goes to work in the morning and I go to work on my computer.  When she comes home, we have dinner and watch TV.  Sometimes we go out, but we usually stay in.  We split expenses equally (she insists).  I met her grandmother a couple times and she absolutely loves me.  She is always sending me home with food.  I am supposed to meet her mom tonight.  I am taking her mom and her mom's boyfriend out to dinner.  This should be interesting.  Her mom is my age... but her mom's boyfriend is 26, so they are obviously used to big age gaps in relationships.

Anyway... maybe I'll marry this woman... maybe I won't.  I am enjoying our time together and seeing how things progress.  It's certainly educational learning about cultural differences that I never knew from reading.  I wish I had known certain things.... like when I made the mistake of sitting on the edge of the bed with my jeans.  Nobody told me you have to wear a separate set of clothes in the home because anything worn outside instantly becomes "dirty" and "disgusting".

To all the noobs out there, the process gets much more fun once you get off the computer and are having sex with a hot 25 year old Ukrainian girl. Stick with it and ignore the **sholes.  I am so glad I didn't let their BS get me down!

Peace
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Nightwish on January 14, 2019, 08:23:57 AM
I guess people wanted a follow up?!

It's funny how my options were to fail miserably or be so pathetic that I stay with the first girl I meet, so I guess it doesn't matter what I say because people will use it as an excuse to insult me.

Well, to those who have been helpful, I appreciate you very much.  I spoke extensively with many women, I ended up meeting two of them and I am dating one of those two. I think it's important to note that these are not the first two women I have ever gone out with, just in Ukraine.  The girl I am with is thin, beautiful, smart, has two graduate degrees, and I enjoys lots of sex, just like me... Maybe thats because she is 25, but I guess maybe time will tell.

After I left Kyiv in early December, we continued to talk every day.  We ended up spending a week in Paris together for New Years.  She paid her own way so she wouldn't feel like she was using me.  We came back to Kyiv and got an apartment together for two weeks (hers is under renovation and she has been living with her grandma). I leave for Amsterdam for in a couple days for a coupe months and then we will live together in her apartment for a couple weeks before I return to the US.

Life has already assumed a normal pace with us.  I feel kind of like a normal married couple.  She goes to work in the morning and I go to work on my computer.  When she comes home, we have dinner and watch TV.  Sometimes we go out, but we usually stay in.  We split expenses equally (she insists).  I met her grandmother a couple times and she absolutely loves me.  She is always sending me home with food.  I am supposed to meet her mom tonight.  I am taking her mom and her mom's boyfriend out to dinner.  This should be interesting.  Her mom is my age... but her mom's boyfriend is 26, so they are obviously used to big age gaps in relationships.

Anyway... maybe I'll marry this woman... maybe I won't.  I am enjoying our time together and seeing how things progress.  It's certainly educational learning about cultural differences that I never knew from reading.  I wish I had known certain things.... like when I made the mistake of sitting on the edge of the bed with my jeans.  Nobody told me you have to wear a separate set of clothes in the home because anything worn outside instantly becomes "dirty" and "disgusting".

To all the noobs out there, the process gets much more fun once you get off the computer and are having sex with a hot 25 year old Ukrainian girl. Stick with it and ignore the **sholes.  I am so glad I didn't let their BS get me down!

Peace

This really got me laughing, here it is exactly the same, I did the same mistake as you, and not to mention if I dare take one step inside the house with shoes on.. ohh that is punishable by death :D

I am happy you are having a good time with a good girl, you have the right outlook on this, enjoy the time together and time will tell if it will be you two or not.

and on a sidenote - the sex only gets better with age - so imagine how much you will love it when she is 35 :p
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on January 14, 2019, 09:01:31 AM
This really got me laughing, here it is exactly the same, I did the same mistake as you, and not to mention if I dare take one step inside the house with shoes on.. ohh that is punishable by death :D

I am happy you are having a good time with a good girl, you have the right outlook on this, enjoy the time together and time will tell if it will be you two or not.

and on a sidenote - the sex only gets better with age - so imagine how much you will love it when she is 35 :p

Ahhh, the shoe thing.  Yea... I'm learning that one.  When we arrived in our hotel room in Paris, I immediately started unpacking.  After a couple minutes, I noticed she was just staring at me with this dirty look on her face.  She finally said, "Could you please remove your shoes?"  her words were nice, but with her tone, she might have well said, "Take your shoes off you damn pig!"

She is also REALLY anal about turning lights off.  She freaks out if I leave a room without turning the lights off... even if I am going back to the room in 30 seconds.  Once we were leaving the apartment and I had my boots all laced up and saw that I left a light on.  I looked at her and wondered if it would be okay to leave the light on, just this once... or if I could tiptoe across the floor with my shoes to turn the light off...  One look from her said it all... I unlaced my boots, took them off to walk five feet and turn off a stupid light....
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GQBlues on January 14, 2019, 09:30:53 AM
I guess people wanted a follow up?!

Some, not all. But thanks for doing so...I'm glad to read of the positive experience/s you gathered on your trip.

As for cultural differences, IMHO, always remember there's two people in these relationships. Two folks, two cultures. Never allow one to dominate the other. Know when to compromise and know when to take a stand.

Happy trails!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on January 14, 2019, 09:53:16 AM
"I guess people wanted a follow up?!"

what a charming story!  is ANY of it TRUE?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Gator on January 14, 2019, 10:44:50 AM

As for cultural differences, IMHO, always remember there's two people in these relationships. Two folks, two cultures.

Excellent point. 


Quote
Never allow one to dominate the other. Know when to compromise and know when to take a stand.

......and when to say, "Yes, dear."   

Brownbeard, Russian women appreciate being told when they are wrong because they want to improve.  :D :D :D :D 

I will now get serious.  RW will not readily give up their cultural habits, rituals and beliefs.   It is best not to question  the belief that ice in a drink, moving cool air, etc. will kill you.   Overtime, the women will change.  My stepdaughter now enjoys rare beef, so she orders "medium rare," yet acknowledges the risks of red meat as enumerated by my wife.  One day, my wife may eat a medium rare steak.....perhaps 30 years from now.     

Saying "Yes darling" conserves so much energy because many of the differences between two cultures are inconsequential.   OTOH, issues such as financial management are not the place to capitulate. 

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on January 14, 2019, 11:05:43 AM
I will now get serious.  RW will not readily give up their cultural habits, rituals and beliefs.   It is best not to question  the belief that ice in a drink, moving cool air, etc. will kill you.   Overtime, the women will change.  My stepdaughter now enjoys rare beef, so she orders "medium rare," yet acknowledges the risks of red meat as enumerated by my wife.  One day, my wife may eat a medium rare steak.....perhaps 30 years from now.

I was raised in the Midwest in farm families (we didn't live on farms, but Grandparents did).
All meat was cooked well done.
But when I was a young unmarried man in Los Angeles, I went to dinner and cultural events several times with a much older unmarried professional woman (no romance, we worked in same office).
WOW, did she teach me a lot about food, wines, art, music, etc.
That is when I first encountered medium rare steaks.
I didn't dare tell the folks back in the Midwest.

Later, I had to teach my first wife (also from Midwest) the taste pleasures of medium rare.

And more recently, I had to do the same with Ukrainian wife.
She didn't resist too much as she is mostly willing to try new things.
She still found it hard to order such, so now I just take the lead and order both of our steaks medium rare.

And she doesn't dare tell the folks back in Ukraine.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on January 14, 2019, 11:35:35 AM
The drink was probably Ukrainian Kompot or Compote and it is non-alcoholic.

The cheese was Syrniki which is like Farmer's cheese in USA (but not easy to find) and a cousin of Ricotta  cheese.

They make some sort of warm wine stuff with fruit and spices in it. I've had various Russian
women try to get me to like it, but it tastes like cheap warm wine, with fruit and cinnamon in
it. I've put worst things in my mouth but it's pretty crappy.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GQBlues on January 14, 2019, 12:02:37 PM
...Overtime, the women will change...

...and change they will. Although I'm inclined to believe the easiness of such change have largely to do with the individual's age/generation.

My wife's staple these days when opted, are prime rib/filet mignon - medium rare; Uni, salmon sashimi; raw oysters to her heart's content, etc....

My MIL, OTOH, still insists on well cooked, almost burned, meats..

Wife still changes her clothing when arriving home, but more as a habit and no longer because 'she believes in cleanliness' knowing full well the practice in the FSU have little to do with not wearing 'dirty' clothes inside the house since they're NOT placing these 'dirty clothes' in a hamper to be washed and cleaned, but beside and amongst the 'clean ones' either on hangers or drawers.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Hammer2722 on January 14, 2019, 12:55:18 PM
I guess people wanted a follow up?!

It's funny how my options were to fail miserably or be so pathetic that I stay with the first girl I meet, so I guess it doesn't matter what I say because people will use it as an excuse to insult me.

Well, to those who have been helpful, I appreciate you very much.  I spoke extensively with many women, I ended up meeting two of them and I am dating one of those two. I think it's important to note that these are not the first two women I have ever gone out with, just in Ukraine.  The girl I am with is thin, beautiful, smart, has two graduate degrees, and I enjoys lots of sex, just like me... Maybe thats because she is 25, but I guess maybe time will tell.

After I left Kyiv in early December, we continued to talk every day.  We ended up spending a week in Paris together for New Years.  She paid her own way so she wouldn't feel like she was using me.  We came back to Kyiv and got an apartment together for two weeks (hers is under renovation and she has been living with her grandma). I leave for Amsterdam for in a couple days for a coupe months and then we will live together in her apartment for a couple weeks before I return to the US.



Anyway... maybe I'll marry this woman... maybe I won't.  I am enjoying our time together and seeing how things progress.  It's certainly educational learning about cultural differences that I never knew from reading.  I wish I had known certain things.... like when I made the mistake of sitting on the edge of the bed with my jeans.  Nobody told me you have to wear a separate set of clothes in the home because anything worn outside instantly becomes "dirty" and "disgusting".

To all the noobs out there, the process gets much more fun once you get off the computer and are having sex with a hot 25 year old Ukrainian girl. Stick with it and ignore the **sholes.  I am so glad I didn't let their BS get me down!

Peace

Oh yes, My wife constantly chews me out if I try to sit or lay down on the bed with my clothes on!  :rules:
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: rwd123 on January 14, 2019, 01:21:26 PM
I stumbed across this article on a completely unrelated website. What stood out was the following:

My ex got me into bed with her less than 6 hours after getting off the plane in the Philippines in 2007; geez, I was suckered bad.

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/readers-submissions/2008/11/done-over-by-a-filipina-in-australia/

I'm always dubious about women who jump straight into bed. In my experiences none have been marriage material... замок, который можно открыть любым ключом, плохой замок!

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on January 14, 2019, 01:23:17 PM
Actually we both do change out of outdoor clothing when we come into the house.
One of the main reasons for me is allergens on the clothing.
Don't want to have such achieving such an easy entry into the house.
And it would be even worse to lay down on a bed, even a fully made up bed, with such clothes.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on January 14, 2019, 01:31:07 PM
My ex got me into bed with her less than 6 hours after getting off the plane in the Philippines in 2007; geez, I was suckered bad.

I'm always dubious about women who jump straight into bed. In my experiences none have been marriage material...

I don't think this is totally true.
Depends on why the woman wants to get into bed with you (or any man) so soon.
At least two scenarios:
1) They are using sex to rope you in.  This is the bad scenario and probably they are not good marriage material.
2) They have a really, really high sex drive for a female.  Doesn't disqualify them as good marriage material.  But of course could cause trouble down the road if the man isn't willing to satisfy her.  And this doesn't mean he has to have standard intercourse and orgasms for himself at her same rate.  Men have all sorts of tools they can use to please the woman sexually;  most are unwilling to perform though.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: rwd123 on January 14, 2019, 02:34:57 PM
I don't think this is totally true.
When it is straight into bed + much older man + foreigner + with kids + beard + no prior exposure to local culture + no language skills + Ukrainian girl + in her mid 20s + girl has plenty of disposable income then dubious shouldn't be a surprising default position. Good luck to BB99, wish him the best, but smells of James saying how great Ukrainian girls are and how less likely they are to wander...
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on January 14, 2019, 03:40:02 PM
I am supposed to meet her mom tonight.  I am taking her mom and her mom's boyfriend out to dinner.  This should be interesting.  Her mom is my age... but her mom's boyfriend is 26, so they are obviously used to big age gaps in relationships.

Potential for a switch of mates ?
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on January 14, 2019, 05:14:34 PM
Interesting thing about the cold stuff. I have been battling a cold and she has been only wanting me to eat hot food and drinks. She thinks if I consume anything cold it will make me sicker. 

She has no problem with raw stuff though.  We eat sushi all the time (for those who have been here, you know sushi is very popular in Kyiv).  When we were in France, I ate steak tartare many times and she never freaked out.

I am picking my battles wisely with the differences. I don’t mind the clothing thing too much, because when she changes, she takes off her bra and wears very tight/skimpy things... so it’s kind of a bonus for me.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 14, 2019, 05:49:41 PM
Ahhh, the shoe thing.  Yea... I'm learning that one.  When we arrived in our hotel room in Paris, I immediately started unpacking.  After a couple minutes, I noticed she was just staring at me with this dirty look on her face.  She finally said, "Could you please remove your shoes?"  her words were nice, but with her tone, she might have well said, "Take your shoes off you damn pig!"

She is also REALLY anal about turning lights off.  She freaks out if I leave a room without turning the lights off... even if I am going back to the room in 30 seconds.  Once we were leaving the apartment and I had my boots all laced up and saw that I left a light on.  I looked at her and wondered if it would be okay to leave the light on, just this once... or if I could tiptoe across the floor with my shoes to turn the light off...  One look from her said it all... I unlaced my boots, took them off to walk five feet and turn off a stupid light....

Yeah, FSW can be like that, the previous girl I was with was. In most cases I was observant enough to go through the necessary delicacies. I understand that they are woman and like a bit of refinement and house care, respectful living procedure if you like. I don't mind a bit of it the shoe horn thing I don't mind, etc but sometimes it can be a bit over the top when set against covienience. Kind  of feels like you are walking on eggshells or having to make an effort on minding yourself a bit much sometimes. I did the shoe on in the hotel room and also put my generally clean suitcase on the bedpread to unpack (wheelsof the side of course) that is a big no, no also so watch out for that one ;) 
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 14, 2019, 06:13:03 PM
I stumbed across this article on a completely unrelated website. What stood out was the following:

My ex got me into bed with her less than 6 hours after getting off the plane in the Philippines in 2007; geez, I was suckered bad.

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/readers-submissions/2008/11/done-over-by-a-filipina-in-australia/

I'm always dubious about women who jump straight into bed. In my experiences none have been marriage material... замок, который можно открыть любым ключом, плохой замок!

An interesting Article RWD, it kind of ties in with what I've been saying recently about being reasonably realistic and looking at oneself critically as I think the same applies to FSW. The flooeing stuff in the artle speaks to the same:


"Remember, most of these girls are beautiful enough to have their pick of men and so many of them know it too."

"But don't EVEN think about marrying them. They'll break your heart in the end unless you are a) very "guapo / pogi" meaning: good looking, b) reasonably young and c) possess a high income, preferably all three. If you're in that category, why look overseas for a wife anyway?"

"There are however, genuine Filipina girls out there, but they're much harder to find though. Land one though, and you're set up for life. Such "good girls" are wonderful wives; you'll never meet more loyal, faithful or hard-working partners than these types. Perhaps I'm making generalisations here but I've found that it's the plainer, more homely girls with good education and English, who are also not from dirt poor families that are true marriage material and the girl

"They'll advertise themselves on their Friendster, Facebook, MySpace pages or even dating sites in order to find younger / better looking / wealthier benefactors for better sex and / or to fund the lifestyles that they want (for example, regular nightclubbing and / or long morning lie-ins) without being forced to work for anything. Webcams are great for taking pornographic images or even videos! Regular nightclubbing with "friends" is also another convenient way of picking up prospective partners (so beware if your fiancée / wife wants to go out clubbing often unless it's something you enjoy together.) These girls usually end up conducting an affair (or series of them) only after obtaining their spousal visa"


I think similar could be seen in the Indel King case, he was a balding fat guy who didn't look at all attractive and he went for a much younger girl. Some guys have the wherewithall to make it work and a very small few get lucky. Most though are a walking target. If he had got down the gym and got a decent toupee and went for a girl around her early thirties he would have been far less of a target. Not to dayhe would'nt have had problems but that he would'nt have been such a big target by underscoring in the character stakes do much.

Girls will unfortunately look down on guys who basically look past it, out of it, undesirable looking in probably at least one or more likely several ways. I think girls who view one guy as inferior will be viewed the same way by many girls, a big age gap for many will likely raise the disadvantages. I think not being taken seriously by girl after girl is a problem and best worked on before repeatedly hitting the same issue.

Another issue is when the girl gets into the UK, US etc and can see how the guy matches up to other guys around. So again ifthe guy is obviously coming up short he will face all of the above dangers of him being used as a mule and the girl hooking up with a guy in her age group. For me, reducing the affects of any obvious disparity would be the thing to do.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on January 15, 2019, 12:29:41 AM
Trench,

WHY are you posting drivel, again ? !

THIS poster  advocates that you cannot truly know a person until you've lived with them a long time ...

Having a bonk with someone you met on a plane .... risky !
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: GenMish on January 15, 2019, 05:23:00 AM
I stumbed across this article on a completely unrelated website. What stood out was the following:

My ex got me into bed with her less than 6 hours after getting off the plane in the Philippines in 2007; geez, I was suckered bad.

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/readers-submissions/2008/11/done-over-by-a-filipina-in-australia/

I'm always dubious about women who jump straight into bed. In my experiences none have been marriage material... замок, который можно открыть любым ключом, плохой замок!


6 hours? Are you kidding? They slept together after 6 hours!






.
 
 

What took him so long? That's playing hard to get in the Philippines. Either that or she was already having doubts him for the first 5 hours
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: SteveInBoston on January 15, 2019, 09:44:52 AM
I don't think this is totally true.
Depends on why the woman wants to get into bed with you (or any man) so soon.
At least two scenarios:
1) They are using sex to rope you in.  This is the bad scenario and probably they are not good marriage material.
2) They have a really, really high sex drive for a female.  Doesn't disqualify them as good marriage material.  But of course could cause trouble down the road if the man isn't willing to satisfy her.  And this doesn't mean he has to have standard intercourse and orgasms for himself at her same rate.  Men have all sorts of tools they can use to please the woman sexually;  most are unwilling to perform though.

I have a feeling that in the OP's case it's something in-between 1 and 2.  She had chemistry with him and decided to act on it to rope him in to regard only her during the trip.  The OP initially had 2 or 3 other dates set up after her, that he cancelled.  So it worked. ))

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on January 15, 2019, 11:44:57 AM
There is little correlation between me and the guy in this story. First, I’m not a pathetic guy who can’t get a date back home. She didn’t rope me in with sex.  I’m the one who initiated sex and I have sex on the first date about 25% of the time... not a big deal.

This girl is not some sex vixen... she is rather inexperienced sexually and has a lot to learn.  Sex is not the centerpiece of our relationship.  She is an attorney with the high council of justice of Ukraine.  She works with the Supreme Court.  She isn’t some slutty, desperate low life... if fact, she often goes back and forth about whether she is really prepared to leave everything for the US..  We have many heated debates and probably argue about things more than we should. We are currently having an argument right now... she translated a government website into English for work.  I thought her wording was confusing and she’s mad that I insulted her work.

If she is some trickster trying to rope me in for a ticket to the US, she is doing an extremely shitty job of it.  I enjoy the company and it’s nice having sex with a 25 year old where nothing is stretched out or sagging... but I can’t say I’m in love or anything.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: jone on January 15, 2019, 12:17:54 PM
There is little correlation between me and the guy in this story. First, I’m not a pathetic guy who can’t get a date back home. She didn’t rope me in with sex.  I’m the one who initiated sex and I have sex on the first date about 25% of the time... not a big deal.

This girl is not some sex vixen... she is rather inexperienced sexually and has a lot to learn.  Sex is not the centerpiece of our relationship.  She is an attorney with the high council of justice of Ukraine.  She works with the Supreme Court.  She isn’t some slutty, desperate low life... if fact, she often goes back and forth about whether she is really prepared to leave everything for the US..  We have many heated debates and probably argue about things more than we should. We are currently having an argument right now... she translated a government website into English for work.  I thought her wording was confusing and she’s mad that I insulted her work.

If she is some trickster trying to rope me in for a ticket to the US, she is doing an extremely shitty job of it.  I enjoy the company and it’s nice having sex with a 25 year old where nothing is stretched out or sagging... but I can’t say I’m in love or anything.

You should probably know that being an 'attorney' is not the same thing in Ukraine as it is in the US.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on January 15, 2019, 12:44:06 PM
You should probably know that being an 'attorney' is not the same thing in Ukraine as it is in the US.

Yes, I am fully aware of her duties and responsibilities. Her mom is a gynecologist and I know that is also different (she does deliver babies).

I lived in Korea while serving in the military and am quite familiar with the “Drinky” girls that would serve us in bars... they come from places like Thailand and the Philippines.  The clever ones would trick soldiers into marriage.  Those girls seem
Very similar to the girl in the story posted.  My situation is quite different.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Jamesukjames on January 15, 2019, 12:54:24 PM
The only certainties are death and taxes
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: brownbeard99 on April 12, 2019, 06:30:07 AM
Okay, so I think it’s about time I have an update... no it wasn’t happy ever after.

So this girl drinks a lot... at least a flask of whiskey every day.... sometimes half a liter.  It really started getting to me. My last day in Kiev, she stayed at work late because she was getting drunk with her colleagues. She showed up two hours late for our last dinner together... so drunk she threw up.  I flew to the Netherlands the next day and I decided to end things.

I was working in the Netherlands for the next three months, but already had booked a flight back to Kiev for 16 days before I flew to the US.  While in the Netherlands, I started talking to another girl and planned on another WOVO trip.

I flew to Kiev March 30. She met me at the airport and we hit it off immediately. By the second day, she moved in with me in my apartment.  Things were okay, but I found out she is I extremely emotionally immature (she is 25) and I knew things weren’t going to work.  I broke things off after about a week in Kiev.

I went back on dating websites and started looking for someone new. I met a girl that same night.  We met at this really cool speak easy called “Hendricks Bar”.  She ended up spending the night. We went out the next night and she spent the night again. I asked her out a third time and she became busy all of the sudden. We had fun, but I don’t think she was serious about a relationship.

So now the money thing...

I met another girl online the next night and she asked for money for a taxi. I have always been against giving women cash for any reason, but I heard this is common in Ukraine, so I decided to do it.  I guess it was a good decision, because she spent the night with me as well.

I started feeling like I was missing the point of going to Ukraine in the first place. I want a wife. I am not a sex tourist, but realized I was just hooking up with the party girls.

So... I met another girl online who asked for cab money.  She picked a very expensive restaurant and ordered expensive dishes, wine, etc.  I really started to feel used. Yes, she was gorgeous and she knew it... she was some kind of swimsuit model.  She wanted to go for a walk after dinner and we ended up at Gulliver mall (after window shopping at Tiffany, YSL, etc).

At the mall, she said her lips were chapped but she forgot her lipstick... I offered to go to a makeup store to get some.  She ended up getting some other things and in total it cost over €100.  I knew she was taking advantage of me a little, but I just didn’t care at the time... then she took me to an electronics store. She asked me to buy her an iPhone XR.  I laughed at first and then realized she was serious. When I told her no, she got really pissed off. She said I was “cheap” because I wouldn’t spend “a mere $1,000” on the first date.  I ended the date shortly after, but she kept texting me for 24 hours, trying to convince me to buy her an iPhone.

Then I met my “dream girl”.  She asks for stuff too, but not in a bratty, entitled way. I’m not sure where to draw the line.  I could use some advice on how to handle this money thing with Ukrainian girls.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on April 12, 2019, 06:52:06 AM
taking care of a woman
should NEVER be considered a problem
because it’s ALWAYS an opportunity...

so really no problem at all
but what is a problem for you is THIS...

“Narcissistic personality disorder is found more commonly in men.
Symptoms include an excessive need for admiration, disregard for others' feelings, an inability to handle any criticism, and a sense of false entitlement.”

now THAT’s a freakin problem that you can't cover up with a beard
do you have so little self-awareness that you don't see this in yourself and what it does to your relationships or lack thereof
really you never stopped to think about it?
too busy playing the pharmaceutical executive slash Harvard MBA
although why you diidn't also add neurosurgeon and astronaut leaves me perplexified to no end


while you were in Amsterdam you should’ve met gazillions of Russian and Ukrainian women, gazillions, just open your "ooshkie" and then follow with your "glasskie"...
my oldest daughter would bring arm fulls of them up into our apartment and we’d sit together and do bong hits and watch old Russian MTV episodes - lovely, lovely young women.....

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on April 12, 2019, 07:43:07 AM
Okay, so I think it’s about time I have an update... no it wasn’t happy ever after.

So this girl drinks a lot... at least a flask of whiskey every day.... sometimes half a liter.  It really started getting to me. My last day in Kiev, she stayed at work late because she was getting drunk with her colleagues. She showed up two hours late for our last dinner together... so drunk she threw up.  I flew to the Netherlands the next day and I decided to end things.

I was working in the Netherlands for the next three months, but already had booked a flight back to Kiev for 16 days before I flew to the US.  While in the Netherlands, I started talking to another girl and planned on another WOVO trip.

I flew to Kiev March 30. She met me at the airport and we hit it off immediately. By the second day, she moved in with me in my apartment.  Things were okay, but I found out she is I extremely emotionally immature (she is 25) and I knew things weren’t going to work.  I broke things off after about a week in Kiev.

I went back on dating websites and started looking for someone new. I met a girl that same night.  We met at this really cool speak easy called “Hendricks Bar”.  She ended up spending the night. We went out the next night and she spent the night again. I asked her out a third time and she became busy all of the sudden. We had fun, but I don’t think she was serious about a relationship.

So now the money thing...

I met another girl online the next night and she asked for money for a taxi. I have always been against giving women cash for any reason, but I heard this is common in Ukraine, so I decided to do it.  I guess it was a good decision, because she spent the night with me as well.

I started feeling like I was missing the point of going to Ukraine in the first place. I want a wife. I am not a sex tourist, but realized I was just hooking up with the party girls.

So... I met another girl online who asked for cab money.  She picked a very expensive restaurant and ordered expensive dishes, wine, etc.  I really started to feel used. Yes, she was gorgeous and she knew it... she was some kind of swimsuit model.  She wanted to go for a walk after dinner and we ended up at Gulliver mall (after window shopping at Tiffany, YSL, etc).

At the mall, she said her lips were chapped but she forgot her lipstick... I offered to go to a makeup store to get some.  She ended up getting some other things and in total it cost over €100.  I knew she was taking advantage of me a little, but I just didn’t care at the time... then she took me to an electronics store. She asked me to buy her an iPhone XR.  I laughed at first and then realized she was serious. When I told her no, she got really pissed off. She said I was “cheap” because I wouldn’t spend “a mere $1,000” on the first date.  I ended the date shortly after, but she kept texting me for 24 hours, trying to convince me to buy her an iPhone.

Then I met my “dream girl”.  She asks for stuff too, but not in a bratty, entitled way. I’m not sure where to draw the line.  I could use some advice on how to handle this money thing with Ukrainian girls.

I read this segment and then re-read it to my wife as she was heading out the door to university.

She said she might even vomit.  She repeated what she has said multiple times:  "Why do these men keep choosing such women when there are thousands of very good decent women in Ukraine."
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on April 12, 2019, 07:49:16 AM
I didn't re-read all the OPs posts from the beginning of this thread and in other threads.

However, the first problem that jumps out at me is the probability of choosing the gals from the websites based on looks first.

Look at the 'How to do it . . ." thread.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0

The principle is to first screen the gals by your desired attributes such as:  age, height, weight, education level, drinking, smoking, children, hobbies, etc., etc., . . . . WITHOUT FIRST LOOKING AT THE PICTURES.

Keep choosing swimsuit model looking girls as a first criteria . . . and you are likely to continue down the $1,000 first date path.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Gator on April 12, 2019, 09:19:47 AM

I met another girl online the next night and she asked for money for a taxi. I have always been against giving women cash for any reason, but I heard this is common in Ukraine, so I decided to do it.  I guess it was a good decision, because she spent the night with me as well.

I started feeling like I was missing the point of going to Ukraine in the first place. I want a wife. I am not a sex tourist, but realized I was just hooking up with the party girls.

This sounds like you are not rigorous about whom you select online.

Quote

At the mall, she said her lips were chapped but she forgot her lipstick... I offered to go to a makeup store to get some.  She ended up getting some other things and in total it cost over €100.  .......I ended the date shortly after, but she kept texting me for 24 hours, trying to convince me to buy her an iPhone.

The classic pro-dater. 

For our first meeting my wife flew to Moscow, and I hired a driver/interpreter to take me to the airport.

All the way to Domodedovo airport he spoke condescendingly to me about bad Russian women.  He told the example of meeting one dyev who flew into Moscow in cold weather without a coat.  So the American client took her to a coat store!!!

He had many other things to say about bad Russian women.  I explained that I had some experience and I feel positive about the woman we were meeting.  He rolled his eyes.

At the airport, he directed me to the correct gate, while waiting for me at the doors where he parked the car.  I met my Cossack woman.  Thank God - she was wearing a coat (and had lipstick)!  We spoke for a couple of minutes, depleting all of my Russian and her English.  We walked to the driver.  As we got close, his eyes became big.

The two of them spoke and spoke, and he only occasionally interpreted for me.  Before getting into the car, he stops and turns to me with a huge smile - "You have found a true Russian flower!  You are a lucky man."   Five days later he met us to take her to the airport.  Again, he had a huge smile upon seeing the two of us happy together.         

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on April 12, 2019, 11:15:31 AM
I flew to Kiev March 30. She met me at the airport and we hit it off immediately. By the second day, she moved in with me in my apartment.  Things were okay, but I found out she is I extremely emotionally immature (she is 25) and I knew things weren’t going to work.  I broke things off after about a week in Kiev.


Wow.  What a surprise!  A 25 year old is immature.

Quote
I went back on dating websites and started looking for someone new. I met a girl that same night.  We met at this really cool speak easy called “Hendricks Bar”.  She ended up spending the night. We went out the next night and she spent the night again. I asked her out a third time and she became busy all of the sudden. We had fun, but I don’t think she was serious about a relationship.


You don't understand the Ukrainian translation of this.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Patagonie on April 12, 2019, 11:30:37 AM
Okay, so I think it’s about time I have an update... no it wasn’t happy ever after.

So this girl drinks a lot... at least a flask of whiskey every day.... sometimes half a liter.  It really started getting to me. My last day in Kiev, she stayed at work late because she was getting drunk with her colleagues. She showed up two hours late for our last dinner together... so drunk she threw up.  I flew to the Netherlands the next day and I decided to end things.

I was working in the Netherlands for the next three months, but already had booked a flight back to Kiev for 16 days before I flew to the US.  While in the Netherlands, I started talking to another girl and planned on another WOVO trip.

I flew to Kiev March 30. She met me at the airport and we hit it off immediately. By the second day, she moved in with me in my apartment.  Things were okay, but I found out she is I extremely emotionally immature (she is 25) and I knew things weren’t going to work.  I broke things off after about a week in Kiev.

I went back on dating websites and started looking for someone new. I met a girl that same night.  We met at this really cool speak easy called “Hendricks Bar”.  She ended up spending the night. We went out the next night and she spent the night again. I asked her out a third time and she became busy all of the sudden. We had fun, but I don’t think she was serious about a relationship.

So now the money thing...

I met another girl online the next night and she asked for money for a taxi. I have always been against giving women cash for any reason, but I heard this is common in Ukraine, so I decided to do it.  I guess it was a good decision, because she spent the night with me as well.

I started feeling like I was missing the point of going to Ukraine in the first place. I want a wife. I am not a sex tourist, but realized I was just hooking up with the party girls.

So... I met another girl online who asked for cab money.  She picked a very expensive restaurant and ordered expensive dishes, wine, etc.  I really started to feel used. Yes, she was gorgeous and she knew it... she was some kind of swimsuit model.  She wanted to go for a walk after dinner and we ended up at Gulliver mall (after window shopping at Tiffany, YSL, etc).

At the mall, she said her lips were chapped but she forgot her lipstick... I offered to go to a makeup store to get some.  She ended up getting some other things and in total it cost over €100.  I knew she was taking advantage of me a little, but I just didn’t care at the time... then she took me to an electronics store. She asked me to buy her an iPhone XR.  I laughed at first and then realized she was serious. When I told her no, she got really pissed off. She said I was “cheap” because I wouldn’t spend “a mere $1,000” on the first date.  I ended the date shortly after, but she kept texting me for 24 hours, trying to convince me to buy her an iPhone.

Then I met my “dream girl”.  She asks for stuff too, but not in a bratty, entitled way. I’m not sure where to draw the line.  I could use some advice on how to handle this money thing with Ukrainian girls.
I would advise you to spend time here on RWD because you have many things to learn, nothing wrong, that's called experience.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Hammer2722 on April 12, 2019, 12:16:51 PM
I agree with others here. You need to take some time and do lots of reading here. If you continue to go for the eye candy, then you will always get the same result.... Get a clue dude  :cluebat:
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 12, 2019, 12:43:55 PM
I have a coworker who went through similar experience locally.

He was going through a divorce and after getting comfortable about dating again, he was overwhelmed.  He was inexperienced at dating but was very desirable in a middle class single dad sort of way, mainly by owning a good house in a great neighborhood.  He was acting like a kid in a candy store from many women hitting on him.  He never received that type of attention before.

BB, it seems you are starting to wake up a bit.  All those beautiful, fit, affectionate women consumed you but you are seeing that in the end, without the right woman, it's ultimately hollow.

But I don't think you've reached the turning point.  Admit to yourself you're a sex tourist and work it out of your system.  Yes, there is a chance one of those eye candies is a sincere, loving, wonderful woman.  That type of chance is why I keep playing the lottery.

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on April 12, 2019, 01:03:49 PM
So this girl drinks a lot... at least a flask of whiskey every day.... sometimes half a liter.  It really started getting to me. My last day in Kiev, she stayed at work late because she was getting drunk with her colleagues. She showed up two hours late for our last dinner together... so drunk she threw up.  I flew to the Netherlands the next day and I decided to end things.

You've identified the problem in two days but knew for sure by day three.
The mistake you can learn from this experience is to act on the problem
sooner. If you dumped the girl on day two or three you could have met
the future Mrs BB99 during your trip.

Learning to immediately dump a girl with character flaws is a great lesson
to learn but it takes pluck and resolve to do and far easier said than done.
If and when you learn to do this you are a thousand times more effective
than you were before. 

Some guys never learn to do this, but I think you can.

Lesson #1 Dump a girl as soon as you see a character flaw or discover
this is not the future Mrs _______________ (your name here)


I flew to Kiev March 30. She met me at the airport and we hit it off immediately. By the
second day, she moved in with me in my apartment.  Things were okay, but I found out
she is I extremely emotionally immature (she is 25) and I knew things weren’t going to
work.  I broke things off after about a week in Kiev.

Grasshopper, you are learning to make different mistakes. You were pursuing a too
young girl for serious consideration for marriage. I think you probably knew this before
a week expired so you are still working at dumping girls as soon as you know that she
isn't the future Mrs BB99.

Lesson #2 Don't chase 20 something girls. 
If you are 30 then maybe 25 and up.

She ended up spending the night. We went out the next night and she spent the night again. I asked her out a third time and she became busy all of the sudden. We had fun, but I don’t
think she was serious about a relationship.

A girl spending the night is NOT a sign that she's not a good girl. You determined she
wasn't serious and moved on.


So now the money thing...

I met another girl online the next night and she asked for money for a taxi.

The taxi money is a MOB industry thing. You visit Kiev, Odessa or Nikolaev then you
will be dating MOB industry girls. A good girl doesn't ask for money. They have been
taught to ask for it in the MOB hotbed. In Kiev, Odessa or Nikolaev, you pay the taxi
money.

Go to Lviv, Brest, Chisinau, Pskov, Omsk or anywhere outside the MOB industry hotbed
you will never hear a girl ask for taxi money. There are lot's of good girls in the MOB
hotbed, but there are a thousand times more prodaters there than in Ufa or
Ivano-Frankivsk.


I was just hooking up with the party girls.

That's probably an age thing. You aren't still chasing twenty somethings right?


She picked a very expensive

Next lesson, you pick everything in the beginning.

You are knocking down lesson after lesson, I am confident that you can learn from this.


Then I met my “dream girl”.  She asks for stuff too, but not in a bratty, entitled way.
I’m not sure where to draw the line.  I could use some advice on how to handle this
money thing with Ukrainian girls.

In the beginning you pay for the date but you chose the venue, which you can walk
to from your apartment that you've arranged for yourself. In Kiev you can call Pavel
or someone else to can arrange local transportation, so you won't have to worry about
taxi scams and such.

Lesson #3 Avoid prodaters by making your own arrangements, picking the venues,
pursuing girls outside the MOB hotbed and not opening your wallet to win over a girl.


A prodater will refuse if she can't get into your pocket and that will free you up to
pursue good girls.

Udachi!

Bill


NOTE: I received this advice (paraphrased) from the guy who wrote the
RWD ten commandments

"Don't be surprised if you catch gold diggers if you use money as bait"
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on April 12, 2019, 01:32:14 PM
The taxi money is a MOB industry thing.  . . . A good girl doesn't ask for money.


No, that's incorrect.


A UM will always either escort his date home, or give her taxi money.  That's been the case since my MIL's time.  She may not have money, and Kyiv, for example, is a far less safe city than it was when I lived there.


Before we married, the better half always escorted dates home, but he gave female friends who had visited money for cab fare.  It's not considered a "big deal" there. 


krimster's advice on this was the best.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: rwd123 on April 12, 2019, 04:55:24 PM
Lesson #1 Dump a girl as soon as you see a character flaw or discover
this is not the future Mrs _______________ (your name here)

Lesson #2 Don't chase 20 something girls. 
If you are 30 then maybe 25 and up.

Lesson #3 Avoid prodaters by making your own arrangements, picking the venues,
pursuing girls outside the MOB hotbed and not opening your wallet to win over a girl.

In addition to this, always ask yourself the question - if this woman is so good why hasn't a local guy snapped her up? There's often a very good reason why UM shun them.

I'd also suggest that if you spend 2-3 weeks in Ukraine again that you visit one or two other cities (or go to Russia instead). In the world of dating Kyiv is like a den of thieves with garottes just around the corner with your name on it if you're not street smart.  You've survived to tell the tale but don't be marked again.
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: krimster2 on April 12, 2019, 05:11:21 PM
if you believe that your success is controlled by outside sources
then you believe that about failure as well
and that’s what you’ll blame

people who believe events in their life derive primarily from their own actions tend to praise or blame themselves and their abilities as opposed to blaming others

based on mr beards report
we see which side of THAT sandwich he put the butter on...

Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Boethius on April 12, 2019, 05:17:46 PM
In addition to this, always ask yourself the question - if this woman is so good why hasn't a local guy snapped her up? There's often a very good reason why UM shun them.

I knew a UW who was kind, attractive (not beautiful, but very attractive), and shy.  She was sort of intellectual.  Had never even dated at the age of 28, because she just didn't put herself "out" there.

Don't jump to conclusions.  If a woman is really beautiful, even some lunk headed UM will marry her, even if she has a poor character.  I've seen that more often than I care to state.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on April 12, 2019, 10:40:30 PM
We simply cannot generalise about people who haven't married - or after a failed relationship - do not want to remarry

Aside of SC - I know several FSU women in the their late 40's and early 50's that are attractive, have good figures and attract guys 20 or more years younger

They would rather live alone and be independent ...   It will take one lucky guy to get them to change their minds ..

They aren't perfect - we all have 'expectations' and different likes / desires ..and the longer one lives as one,the harder it becomes to be patient, to share



Title: Re: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Arax on April 13, 2019, 06:18:03 AM
Hi. I think many of dating sites ar fake. Whats the best way tonarry an ukerainian or russian gursll.
Title: Re: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Davo on April 13, 2019, 06:37:51 AM
Fdating.com seems to be what most of the recent guys who are looking/ travelling use (including myself). It’s free and although you find the occasional scammer, almost all of the women I talked to seemed genuine.
Title: Re: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: ML on April 13, 2019, 10:42:46 AM


They would rather live alone and be independent ...   It will take one lucky guy to get them to change their minds ..

I think it will be an 'unlucky' guy that gets them to give him a try.
Title: Re: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: msmob on April 13, 2019, 11:53:24 PM
I think it will be an 'unlucky' guy that gets them to give him a try.

 ;D
Title: Re: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: Maxx2 on April 14, 2019, 06:21:24 AM
I think it will be an 'unlucky' guy that gets them to give him a try.


Gosh, I really know what you mean!
Title: How to Visit Many without lying?
Post by: 2tallbill on March 24, 2024, 11:05:58 AM
it sounds so pragmatic...But if i had the same problem..I d choose only one man, the best one to meet him. But you have many coctacts of other ladies. So if something will be wrong, no any chemistry...You can go to spontaneous date with someone else

100% of the women I met before my wife did not work out long term.
100% of the men you've met haven't worked out long term.

A.
If a guy asks you to meet for tea, you would never ask him if he ever
dated any other girls before agreeing to meet him. If things work out
for the two of you that's great! If things don't work out, you go home
and have no worries. You have nothing invested in the man.

However
B.
If a man writes, chats and talks to you 100 times before meeting you,
then you could have EVERY expectation that he should only meet with
you, because you invested time and emotions.   

That is the difference in meeting one vs meeting many. Tactic A is meeting
many. Tactic B is for meeting one.