Trench's Questions and Philosophies

[Trenchcoat]

Ok, I'm seeing a lot of the scene now of what is going on here with a lot of the members here going to the FSU to find a woman. Now what I am about to say is probably going to upset a lot of members here but here I go. With the exception of 2tallbill, BillyB, and a few others I think there are a lot of forum members here that are with someone from the FSU who is with them because of their wealth. The women they are with are not actually into them they just hang around them, be with them, marry them even because they offer a very comfortable/wealthy lifestyle that they otherwise would not get. Hence why you get guys that travel to meet women and they can't tell if they are into them, because they are not they are just playing nice with them as they have wealth and they want to be with someone who has wealth and they know chances are they won't find a guy who they are both into and has wealth particularly as few guys actually visit.

So there are actually a lot of rich forum members on here living a lie, they carry on like their other half is so into them and they are successful dating over in the FSU but in fact they are with a girl that just panders up to them because they are a rich guy and it must be said that many of the members commenting at the moment on this board (and similarly the Brexit thread) that the extent of their wealth is becoming apparent - they are very wealthy indeed, perhaps in the top quarter of wealth in the country or near it.

We're not talking about any old joe's here that get up do a professional job and get paid decently for it but guys that are swimming in wealth and can afford to go jet setting away for extended periods of time who don't need to worry about money at all they are so wealthy.

I don't have that wealth nor am I looking for a sycophant of a woman that just wants to kiss up to me and put on a pleasant persona just to please me and be part of my wealth. I believe there are other guys around who also have everyday jobs & lives and wealth and look for a woman in the FSU who are really into them. Perhaps they are as 'misguided' as I am that they are going to find one there but like me they are going to try anyway.

I take one thing away from many of your posts and that is big cities like Moscow, St. Pete's probably even Kiev are not likely to turn up what I am looking for since the wealth that many of the women expect the guy to have there is rather a lot. I will focus my search in the more outlying areas I think and see if I can come across a decent woman along the way.     

[Trenchcoat]

Trenchcoat you've got to look at the situation from her POV, what about her future? What happens if you die? Or divorce and she has children to support? What happens in her old age and she has no pension either public or private, how does she survive? She has to know how to take care of herself without you in a new country, that means she needs an education and job skills to suit the UK marketplace. Maybe as a hairdresser or nurse or tax accountant or computer programmer or DCI on your local police force.

This I accept is a valid point and something that needs addressing, I think a lot of it can be addressed in the UK without going overboard and I do offer the girl some fallback but yes it would need some going through. I think her having the ability to get at least a basic job is something that would best serve her interests just in case in the longer term. There is of course other family, etc but this would need some consideration. Real wealthy guys that are on here its not necessarily a problem IF they bother to sort her out on this front for the less wealthy here its something to plan out more with her once the relationship gets serious I think.

[Sting23]

Trench what the hell is all that BS you just wrote.  the jealousy is strong in this one.

You've been looking for almost 10 years right and are 40.  Get on it dude.  One thing to remember most small town girls barely speak a lick of English.  How are you gonna communicate with them?  Even in Moscow, more people are not conversational or have only basic English.

If you are rich why would you go to Russia or Ukraine to find a girl.  You'd just go to New York or LA, London, Monaco.  Tons of FSU or EE girls there. 

[Boethius]

There’s a poll here somewhere on income levels. The men posting here over the years are overwhelmingly middle class. But as they are generally older, they will have more income.

You are far more likely to be scammed by one of those unsophisticated women from the boonies than from a city, at least in Ukraine.

As I have posted before, you need to work on yourself before you look for a spouse.  The attitudes you display are self defeating.

[Trenchcoat]

There’s a poll here somewhere on income levels. The men posting here over the years are overwhelmingly middle class. But as they are generally older, they will have more income.

You are far more likely to be scammed by one of those unsophisticated women from the boonies than from a city, at least in Ukraine.

As I have posted before, you need to work on yourself before you look for a spouse.  The attitudes you display are self defeating.

I remember that poll, as far as I recall most of the people like in everyday life earned a relatively modest everyday wage/salary. I would guess it is not the members that contribute here regularly but those who lurk in the background somewhat, probably knowing they are up against rich dudes here. I doubt that many of the main posters here aren't rich, some have pretty much said as much indirectly - Mobes for example doesn't have a salaried job and he certainly ain't unemployed on benefit, lol.

Though it may seem it in the above post I am not railing against those with a lot of wealth, if they have it then they have it and that's that. I am merely trying to get my head around what is really going on here in this dating process. I personally think I am more closer than ever to sussing this whole thing out. 

[krimster2]

trench,

have you ever watched a nature documentary about “birds”. no not that that kind, actual birds?

female birds are plain, male bird have bright plumage to attract females
females also select males with vigor to create nest and supply food for young

this is built into our nature...

my wife loves me not just for the physical support I provide our family (but definitely a part, and she appreciates how hard I had to work to get to where I am now), but she also values the emotional support, hell man, I helped deliver our children...
what I consider my job to be in my family is to create an oasis of happiness for my wife and children, when I do that, I feel their happiness and it becomes mine...
being happy in part of a greater happiness is better than being happy by yourself...
honestly, this, and a house in the country with a garden, the opportunity to travel once in awhile...
what more do you really need?


BTW, were I still in Sevastopol, and after I properly “vetted” you, I would’ve fixed you up with a 40 yr old blond, ex-art teacher who ended up working for Ovir, think Barbarra Eden, she’d have loved to come live in the country with you, and she was a really passionate woman, who wouldv’e cooked you breakfast just wearing an apron!

[Trenchcoat]

Trench what the hell is all that BS you just wrote.  the jealousy is strong in this one.

You've been looking for almost 10 years right and are 40.  Get on it dude.  One thing to remember most small town girls barely speak a lick of English.  How are you gonna communicate with them?  Even in Moscow, more people are not conversational or have only basic English.

If you are rich why would you go to Russia or Ukraine to find a girl.  You'd just go to New York or LA, London, Monaco.  Tons of FSU or EE girls there.

No, I'm not jealous as just said to Boethius it may look that way but I'm not bothered about wealth of others, but I need to know what's going down to know how to deal with it. If someone is coming from a wealthy background then they are coming to all of this FSU dating on different terms to me, I have no problem with that it is just a fact.

True enough on the language, big cities normally have more foreign speakers though as English has been taught in Schools in Ukraine most will have a spattering of English if they made any effort at all to pass their exams legitimately.

Sure, there are places where the super rich go then there are just the rich, I'm not saying there are no super rich here, some may just prefer a FSW to a gold digging girl that hangs out in Monaco, probably the FSW will be more likely to hang around long term even if wealth is the attraction.

[JayH]

Krimster -- seriously --you could not have read the history of posts of this cretin. I am always wary of introducing anyone I know an I need to know a guy is decent before contemplating.
I would not introduce this tight fisted mean spirited guy to a dog I met in Sevastopol  -- and I mean a stray 4 legged dog!!!

[krimster2]

you'd be surprised at some of the success stories I've seen
but disasters outnumber success 3-1
in every endeavor, luck is a big part
he might get lucky...
or find someone who fits with him
the picture you're creating of trench
I have no idea if true or false
not for me to judge
but I will tell you this.
i've seen guys EXACTLY like you describe, I'd just call then "jerks"
end up with real queens, seriously...
as long as they're willing to go with girls their own age
because, it's Ukraine...

[JayH]

Trench what the hell is all that BS you just wrote.  the jealousy is strong in this one.
.  One thing to remember most small town girls barely speak a lick of English.  How are you gonna communicate with them?  Even in Moscow, more people are not conversational or have only basic English.
.

I have to comment on your notion and others here on "village" girls.
Over time I have seen a number of people use that as a description to an easier path for guys.
The reality is that many (maybe most)  leave villages for higher education -so gravitate to the major cities of the regional cities  .While their roots may be in a village somewhere --their lives move on --just as they do in western countries.

What I have seen of the more remote areas is not so different to the structure of living in Australia ,where distances are even similar to local larger  town and then regional cities.
Undoubtedly some do stay in original areas --but the chances of a guy getting an opening there would be seriously remote --  if compared to larger cities etc where it is easy to create interaction.
 A btw here -- last year  I visited a cemetery in a rural village, and was there again 2 weeks ago to visit .The nearby town seems to be populated by good looking people !My ladies grandparents came from  this area --and she often visited as a child and is familiar with the town -- but our presence was noted by seemingly everyone !  Some guy showing up in search of a hillbilly --mm -I don't think so !  Most likely result is he would get strung up by the .... by the local boys !

[DaveNY]

This I accept is a valid point and something that needs addressing, I think a lot of it can be addressed in the UK without going overboard and I do offer the girl some fallback but yes it would need some going through. I think her having the ability to get at least a basic job is something that would best serve her interests just in case in the longer term. There is of course other family, etc but this would need some consideration. Real wealthy guys that are on here its not necessarily a problem IF they bother to sort her out on this front for the less wealthy here its something to plan out more with her once the relationship gets serious I think.

Trenchcoat you still don't understand. It's not your decision, none of it. It is solely her decision. Her decision on what education she needs and what job she wants. Sure you can offer some advice but if she wants to be an accountant and you say working as a cashier at Tesco is a good enough job for you that is wrong, very wrong.

When you're married your wife will want a say in how your house furnished and decorate, the house you bought and paid for. She'll want a new bed, even if you just bought one recently. Maybe she'll want to plant a garden or a pet or maybe she'll hate pets. Maybe she'll want to cook traditionally Russian dishes and she'll hate fish and chips, toad in the hole and other traditional UK food.

If the marriage results in children she'll want to teach them Russian and speak Russian to them at home. Invite her Russian speaking friends over for dinner. If your attitude is English only in your house. You're not likely to get to the baby making part of the marriage.

What about religion? It's making a revival in Russia thanks in large part to Putin. If she's religious are you going to go to church with her? What about trips home. It's a short, cheap flight from the UK to Russia. If her home is Moscow or nearby she could go home for a long weekend. If she's not working it will be on your dime.

Trenchcoat as I stated losing money to an ex is the least of your worries. Your life will change irrevocably if you marry a FSUW or any other woman.

[Sting23]

I have to comment on your notion and others here on "village" girls.
Over time I have seen a number of people use that as a description to an easier path for guys.
The reality is that many (maybe most)  leave villages for higher education -so gravitate to the major cities of the regional cities  .While their roots may be in a village somewhere --their lives move on --just as they do in western countries.

JayH, it wasn't my notion. I know the reality. It's Trench's perception that village girls are easier.

I have lived in both Moscow and a smaller "town" in Russia.   Moscow was far easier to meet women.  Basically if you don't speak fluent Russian you will have a very slim chance with a village girl, unless she has pre-determined to meet and marry an English speaking foreign guy.  Very few people in small towns speak even basic conversational English.  Young people perhaps a few phrases for small talk but that's it.

And you're right, many people migrate to Moscow for work.  I would say 35-40% of the girls I met were born in another city.  And in general their level of English is far higher.

But Trench would have zero success with these girls.  All work in white collar office jobs, don't conform to his outdated views and basically would shoo him away in an instant.

[Sting23]

Krimster -- seriously --you could not have read the history of posts of this cretin. I am always wary of introducing anyone I know an I need to know a guy is decent before contemplating.
I would not introduce this tight fisted mean spirited guy to a dog I met in Sevastopol  -- and I mean a stray 4 legged dog!!!

HAHAHAHHA...well, I saw a few babushkas at the metro who looked lonely.  But they are past child bearing age.  And even then I think Trench would annoy the them.

[Sting23]

Trench you are too hung up on the money aspect.  Honestly if money is all you are offering women will lose interest REAL fast. Or fake it until they have your money and then take off. 

Stop worrying about whether all the other guys here are rich or not.  Work on everything else.  You seem to think there's some secret formula.  In all honesty you will have zero success the way you are doing it now.  You're better off selling your house and moving to Ukraine or Russia for a year, learn the language, talk to as many women as you can, and hone your social skills.  You can't even pick up a girl at your local pub!! 

I'll tell you one thing.  Just being a foreigner and native English speaker in Moscow isn't enough to attract girls anymore. 

[Davo2]

  Most likely result is he would get strung up by the .... by the local boys !

I had to chuckle.... I grew up in a small town on the edge of the Nullarbor. I had 6 girls in my senior class at school, so any mildly attractive woman was in high demand. The local men were pretty territorial of outsiders hitting on the local girls, even more than them trying to surf our waves, which got violent occasionally. I can imagine small town Ukrainian / Russian lads would be even more hardcore

[Anotherkiwi]

I have lived in both Moscow and a smaller "town" in Russia.   Moscow was far easier to meet women.  Basically if you don't speak fluent Russian you will have a very slim chance with a village girl, unless she has pre-determined to meet and marry an English speaking foreign guy.  Very few people in small towns speak even basic conversational English.  Young people perhaps a few phrases for small talk but that's it.

It's not just small towns.  My first visit was to meet a lady in a city called Naberezhnye Chelny, about 900 km east of Moscow.  This is a pretty big city (population 600,000+) and, outside the University trip I've mentioned in the past, and the staff in the lady's agency, I came across just ONE English speaker in the entire time I was there.

[Sting23]

It's not just small towns.  My first visit was to meet a lady in a city called Naberezhnye Chelny, about 900 km east of Moscow.  This is a pretty big city (population 600,000+) and, outside the University trip I've mentioned in the past, and the staff in the lady's agency, I came across just ONE English speaker in the entire time I was there.

When were you there?  Had to look up that city, never even heard of it!  The way they teach English in Russia is still very archaic, probably like how we learn French or Spanish in North America.  It's taught by Russian teachers who probably speak it poorly themselves. 

The younger people have an advantage with the internet, now English audio/video material is easily accessible.  I met some Russians who had excellent English in Moscow.

The problem with Trench is he is so backwards thinking.  He won't find any girls in a small town.  What's the appeal of them going to some no name town in the UK.  Especially if he's barely middle class income level himself.  Not like their life will be much better.  They will be isolated without family or friends. 

[krimster2]

Trench,

it’s interesting to see how difficult it is to communicate something that’s actually pretty simple, not “blaming” either party, just how hard it is to explain...

I think I see two separate issues here;

one is purely financial, assuming you want to start a family, people on the forum are questioning if you really have enough resources to do it properly? 

obviously plenty of poor people get married and have children, but they end up having “a struggle” 

women in Ukraine are already “having a struggle” they want to stop having this, and have a “non-struggle” existence rather than just a different struggle in a new place!

this is why I feel I was wildly successful in Ukraine.
because I understood what these women wanted...
a knight in shining armor to come rescue them, shower them with jewels and expensive clothes and take them to go live in a far away land in a castle...
(and I could deliver an approximation of this fantasy)
this, plus having a family with the fantasy are pretty much the only things most women “dream” about in Ukraine...

how would you fit into that? see the problem?

a second issue is what some are labeling “misogyny”, as in you’re anti-woman
that you have some negative feelings towards women
I think it’s because you are very sensitive, and more than one woman has broken your heart before, and this has made you cynical...

but these negative emotions won’t allow you to be the kind of person you need to be
in order to love and be loved
can you see what I’m trying to tell you?

it really is hard to communicate something like this
my words have fled like mice before a cat

so Trench, for you

1. find out what a woman wants
2. if you are able, give it to her

that’s it man



my advice, be honest with the women you meet, otherwise you set them to up to be disappointed with false expectations that will be dashed - fatal!
if you look at women 35-40, you can still find PLENTY of beautiful and sexy women in this age, and BTW women in this age group have almost zero dating opportunities in Ukraine, cuz guys their age are dating devs 10 yr younger





 

[JayH]

The guy does not want a family, does not want a girl with a child, prefers a Virgin, etc etc - -  you getting the picture yet?   Oh - - and he considers a 40yo is too old for him. And, all this from an immature guy who is a dull conservative old in the head fuddy duddy.

[krimster2]

oh my! 

Trench, are these allegations about you true?

[krimster2]

maybe trench is a rocker
and the rest of us are mods

diana rigg/mrs peel
vrs
mary from gilligan's island

for me a particularly tough choice

[krimster2]

thriftiness
stinginess

trench,
because of how similar these two concepts are, maybe not the best choice for you to emphasize...

how many previous long-term relationships did you have ?
why do you think your past relationships didn’t work out

[JayH]

oh my! 

Trench, are these allegations about you true?

Like I said earlier-- you need to read some of his ludicrous,condacending,offensive ignorance before you condemn his critics.

Stingy --he was going to take his own food from Tesco with him to Ukraine --to save a buck!
He will not date locally  and girls will note date him because he wants to go dutch !
Relationship --he classifies a girl in Nikolaev who fled before she finished her coffee as a relationship !!
You want more? All his own work !

[Jumper]

We[re not talking about any old joe's here that get up do a professional job and get paid decently for it but guys that are swimming in wealth and can afford to go jet setting away for extended periods of time who don't need to worry about money at all they are so wealthy.

Stop fretting others.
All you need to do is worry about yourself and who you are dating.


If looking for positive examples,  there are several on the board.
While you should already know it's possible,
How many positive examples would you need to console you ?
1? 150?

How many negative to make you rethink or be afraid to dive in?
1? 150?


I'm certainly not wealthy.
I've had some fantastic jobs that I enjoyed and allowed travel, and some unique experiences,but never any huge money,nor did I truly care.

That career basically morphed over the years but was still quite interesting.
In 2014 in basically ended and I dint have a contract or prospect for the first time in my life.
I started doing one of the most basic of jobs simply to stay busy and keep a steady
income. I do still dabble in my old field .
My wife knew I was stressed and that of course leaving what I had been passionate about for so many decades was tough.
Never a flinch, just said she'd go to work and we could buy a small inexpensive home or rent an apartment if need be , no problems dont stress at all. She has not needed to do that,  we are doing decent financially but certainly not wealthy .

You have the cart in front of the horse.
Concentrate on finding and loving a person you would give everything for,  and who  feels the same for you.
None of the other materialistic stuff matters.

It cracks me up when I read money issues are a primary cause of divorce.
I dont feel this is remotely true.
There are very few cases were either party is truly any worse off together than apart.
So while disagreements about money can be an issue,the actual finances are only a visable thing that reflects a couple that can't communicate well ,can't compromise well, dont truly love each other. And are incompatible at the root.
Finances are not the base problem.


We have never fought about money and never will.

I'm currently a truck driver TC.
Not sure you can get anymore basic or blue collar than that?
My wife would walk to the ends of the earth for me , we have been thru serious health issues,  me losing not only a job,but my career. Long separations, from my work  deaths of friends and family.
But also all the positive and great things in life together. It's a partnership at all levels.

[Trenchcoat]

if you're on her home turf, you have the paranoia factor, "what if the neighbors see me, blah, blah..."
plus not a fun time for her, just another day at home, vrs being some place new and more exciting ...

trench

a woman wants to be swept off her feet, you ALWAYS make the grand gesture...

trench,
are you a cynic about love?
did someone break your heart once?
more than once?

Well I wouldn't worry about her neighbours seeing me, so let them see.

I don't really see the point in grand gestures to try to sweep her off her feet. If she's into me she's into me and no grand gestures needed, the chemistry does the work. If she's not then no grand gestures on the world will help at least not long term. Been there, done the invite girl to Kiev thing but found that it tends not to be a good thing relationship wise. Not as bad as taking her on a foreign holiday too early on but still better to see her in her home town I think.

I think Mobers does have a valid point about getting to the smaller cities away from airports etc, while feasible it's not that easy for a newbie to navigate. I would still not find it a joy. Would recommend Google translate app on phone to help out with traveller translation needs. Like said one before though easy for guys well versed in the FSU to just say go here or there and make it sound straight forward but it is not always so once in that situation.