Trump against legal immigration

[jone]

Racehorses, the sport of kings.  At least you got poop on your boots.  Not the same as tobacco farming where leaning for hours to cut suckers from tobacco plants burns your neck from sun exposure, hence "redneck."

Damn.  I never knew that you grew up cutting suckers from tobaccy plants.

[Miquel Westano]

My understanding was that Chinese labourers built many (most?) of the railroads in the United States and Canada.  In that sense I would consider that they did an awful lot to physically "build" and link the parts of each nation, even if the idea came from someone else.

I guess we are into an area of disagreement over what "built America" means.  Obviously to you, the laborer is the one who built it.  To me the person with the vision, drive and resources to contract and complete the project was the builder.  The laborer, in my eyes, was just the means or the tool used by the visionary.

When Las Vegas was just a desert, there were lots of unemployed laborers willing to dig dirt and pour concrete.  When Panama had no canal, there were tons of ditch diggers.  But neither of these would have built either of those; without the leader with a vision, connections, money and drive.  Labor is always available and now days most of it comes from machinery.  But vison is rare, and the true builders of anything are the exceptional among the common man. 

America wasn't built by ditch diggers or spike pounders.  And, it wasn't built by slave labor.  It was built by visionaries who saw what could be, and made it happen. 

So I guess that is the difference in our opinions and explains a lot of the differences in our politics.  I admire the visionaries, and the men with the drive to get the vison off the blueprints and into reality.  You must see them as just another cog in the machine.  I see them as the machine.  I agree they were assisted by an endless supply of unskilled laborers.  But those laborers would never have undertaken the task without the true builders of the nation.

America wasn't built by laborers anymore than our space program was built by some guy screwing parts into a rocket. 

[Anotherkiwi]

I guess we are into an area of disagreement over what "built America" means.  Obviously to you, the laborer is the one who built it.  To me the person with the vision, drive and resources to contract and complete the project was the builder.  The laborer, in my eyes, was just the means or the tool used by the visionary.

Once again, Miquel, you have haven't actually read what I wrote.  I very carefully inserted "physical" in respect of the work done by the Chinese labourers.  I quite agree with you that the person with the vision is entitled to be regarded as the builder.

America wasn't built by ditch diggers or spike pounders.  And, it wasn't built by slave labor.  It was built by visionaries who saw what could be, and made it happen.

Agreed but, without the ditch diggers, spike pounders and other labourers, it wouldn't have happened.

So I guess that is the difference in our opinions and explains a lot of the differences in our politics.

How can you possibly make such an assertion without any facts at all to back it up?

I admire the visionaries, and the men with the drive to get the vison off the blueprints and into reality.  You must see them as just another cog in the machine.  I see them as the machine.  I agree they were assisted by an endless supply of unskilled laborers.  But those laborers would never have undertaken the task without the true builders of the nation.

America wasn't built by laborers anymore than our space program was built by some guy screwing parts into a rocket.

I don't for one moment consider such people to be "another cog in the machine."  I see them as the designer and driver of the machine but, as with any machine, the vision requires a huge number of other parts to make it work.  Without ALL of those parts (in this case, everybody below the "visionary") running in harmony you won't achieve anything.

[BillyB]

I admire the visionaries, and the men with the drive to get the vison off the blueprints and into reality.  You must see them as just another cog in the machine.  I see them as the machine.  I agree they were assisted by an endless supply of unskilled laborers.  But those laborers would never have undertaken the task without the true builders of the nation.

The guy who invented the toilet is more important than a 1000 men who manufactures it. No dispute there but to be fair to the slaves of any ethnic background in America, they were not in a position to get the best education. They weren't allowed to be leaders and decision makers. They weren't allowed to innovate.  They were not in a position to envision anything except where their next meal is coming from.

It can be debated that Blacks and Indians wouldn't have contributed much more to America's growth if granted equal rights with Whites but what can't be debated is that America would've been further ahead if not for a time in our history where at times, up to 20% of the people weren't free to utilize their minds and talents to the best of their abilities.

[papakota]

Why be so against highly skilled workers?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Trump is xenophobic and racist. That's why he's against any immigration, legal or otherwise. It's just in a country like US is not politically correct to tell that you're against all immigration, so he tries to sugarcoat it. Though if it were an immigration from Europe maybe he wouldn't mind, especially if it were from Germany.

[Slumba]

Trump is xenophobic and racist. That's why he's against any immigration, legal or otherwise. It's just in a country like US is not politically correct to tell that you're against all immigration, so he tries to sugarcoat it. Though if it were an immigration from Europe maybe he wouldn't mind, especially if it were from Germany.

I think it is fairer to say he is a civic nationalist, not a White nationalist, and he only wants immigrants in the country if they can be reasonably expected to be of value to the country as a whole. 

Some Muslim groups have shown that they have no desire to assimilate and that they harass current citizens; so he doesn't want them here. 

He is not someone who thinks that American blacks who don't have jobs should be deported to Africa, for instance (repatriation was a concept that even Abe Lincoln supported, by the way).

Germans are law-abiding and in general good citizens, so yes, they would be more likely to be welcome.

Trump on his German blood: